The Penthouse Of Josh Primo

[tonight...you]

:lmao Hell be ok
I trend to agree.
He seems like a guy who will appreciate hard coaching and be the sponge.

It's certainly my hope.

[MultiTroll]

:lmao Hell be ok
Primo is intelligent.
Probably feels sorry for Grandpa on some levels.

Pretty sure he will nod an acknowledgment when told some outdated and/or asinine strategy. :lol

[TDomination]

Awesome news!

very excited for them to start up again!

[KingKev]

1497006400005885958
“(Sending Primo back to Austin) is not in the cards,” Popovich said. “He’s gotta play. Throw him in the frying pan.”
“It’s time to go out there and be accountable, like everybody else,” Popovich said.



Interesting!! I guess he takes a fair chunk of Walker’s minutes?

[KingKev]

Primo being told to sink or swim makes me think even though they are high on him as a prospect the log jam at the 2 of Vassell, Walker, Langford, Primo and to a lesser extent JRich is going to get interesting and none are safe. Hopefully we can get one quailty starter out of that lot.

[offset formation]

Primo's game has been a bit depressing on the perimeter. He seems to be a better defender of the 3 and even 4 than when he's guarding the 1 or 2 spot. His lateral quickness is not what I expected but hesa much better defender in the paint than I expected.

[emanueldavidginobili]

Welp he’s out tonight with right wrist soreness.

[Atl Spur]

Welp he’s out tonight with right wrist soreness.

A Romeo sighting tonight?

[emanueldavidginobili]

A Romeo sighting tonight?
He's also out with groin tightness along with Richardson with shoulder soreness.

[Sugus]

He's also out with groin tightness along with Richardson with shoulder soreness.

:depressed

There goes my Friday night vibes, smh

[emanueldavidginobili]

:depressed

There goes my Friday night vibes, smh
Facts smh, still excited to watch them since it's been so long but damn what a buzz kill, lol.

[KingKev]

Lol are these guys just still on vacation? Groin, shoulder and wrist soreness after 10 days off?

[KingKev]

Primo needs to say in the g-league.

[KobesAchilles]

Primo needs to say in the g-league.
For what? We are the 11th seed.

[Atl Spur]

For what? We are the 11th seed.

Bro, they can’t make up their minds on this board!!������

[KingKev]

For what? We are the 11th seed.

To develop. He makes no difference at the NBA level but I think we are still invested in him as a potential building block. I’d rather let JRich, Langford, Vassell etc eat those minutes so we see what we have there.

[John B]

Nah Primo’s been getting 10, 15 and even 21 minutes against the Bulls. As mentioned, it’s already a losing season and Primo needs to feel NBA speed and learn to play with the guys. As Pop said, just throw him in the fire. He’s going to be okay.

[KingKev]

Or Pop is giving him minutes at the NBA level because none of these guys move the needle and probably never will.

[Atl Spur]

Primo move is totally clear but this Langford thing is confusing.

[Spurs Homer]

Anyone notice pop calling a timeout and tearing into primo after he made a defensive mistake and benching him for the rest of the game?

interested to see the kids response

[Atl Spur]

Anyone notice pop calling a timeout and tearing into primo after he made a defensive mistake and benching him for the rest of the game?

interested to see the kids response
Yep! Just teaching him the ropes.

[Spurs Homer]

Yep! Just teaching him the ropes.


pop fucked up by not re-inserting primo after a spell on the bench-
but to just bench him the entire game for ONEmistake just seems childish and silly

[John B]

pop fucked up by not re-inserting primo after a spell on the bench-
but to just bench him the entire game for ONEmistake just seems childish and silly

Tough kid would make that a learning mistake. If Primo wants NBA minutes, he needs to hassle out there to earn them like everybody else

[emanueldavidginobili]

Primo has been assigned to Austin, they play tonight.

[Atl Spur]

Primo has been assigned to Austin, they play tonight.

Makes sense.

[TDomination]

1497006400005885958
“(Sending Primo back to Austin) is not in the cards,” Popovich said. “He’s gotta play. Throw him in the frying pan.”
“It’s time to go out there and be accountable, like everybody else,” Popovich said.



so much for that

[Atl Spur]

The big club is off, why not let him get much neediot

[emanueldavidginobili]

9 points 4-19 0-5 from three 4 rebounds 6 assist 7 turnovers and got blocked 3 times, G League actually has that in the box score. Only caught the last 6 minutes of the game and he looked terrible. Turned it over three times while I was watching, got stripped, completely lost his handle and bounced to the other team, and got caught in the air and threw a bad pass.

[BacktoBasics]

9 points 4-19 0-5 from three 4 rebounds 6 assist 7 turnovers and got blocked 3 times, G League actually has that in the box score. Only caught the last 6 minutes of the game and he looked terrible. Turned it over three times while I was watching, got stripped, completely lost his handle and bounced to the other team, and got caught in the air and threw a bad pass.
To me these are signs of growing pains that come with acclimating to a longer season. Especially at his age.

[Mr. Body]

He may have hit the rookie wall. A lot has been thrown at him, plus trying to change his shot. I don't figure he'll be great the rest of the season.

[offset formation]

He's gotten more timid, not less, as the season has progressed.

[The Truth #6]

He's gotten more timid, not less, as the season has progressed.

I definitely agree with that, which is a bummer because his confidence was one of his strengths. Presumably, the reality of his limitations as a young player in the NBA became clear and he is trying to figure it out.

[Chomag]

He's gotten more timid, not less, as the season has progressed.


Yep, I'm afraid he got :pop:. Just like what happened to Lonnie and even Vasell to a lesser extent, Pop is in his head now but hopefully unlike Lonnie he can bounce back before there is permanent damage.

That or Pop leaves before completely screwing the kid's head up.

[KingKev]

I’m probably one of the least bullish on Primo on this bord but I wouldn’t put much mind into his recent play. He has a long journey ahead of him but PATFO obviously sees something and he was always a 2-3 year project.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

I’m probably one of the least bullish on Primo on this bord but I wouldn’t put much mind into his recent play. He has a long journey ahead of him but PATFO obviously sees something and he was always a 2-3 year project.

I agree. He's the youngest player in the league and at this point it's more about the flashes of what he could be than about efficient production. He's also played in a lot of games this season already, both NBA and GLeague, and been thrown into different roles. This might be good for his development (or not) but it sure must be difficult for him compared to having a small, non complicated, consistent role.

At the time of the draft I wanted Moody and also liked Bouknight ahead of Primo, but I can see how he has a higher upside than these two, while also having a decent floor due to his good shooting mechanics.

[emanueldavidginobili]

1499052053301239809

[MannyIsGod]

Not surprised by this at all. Primo hasn't really shown anything of note and the Spurs seem to be settling into the play in game race. I think Primo has shown very good court vision, and has been decent at defense, but otherwise he hasn't really done much other than be a body out there. Don't get me wrong, for a 19 year old to be playing rotation minutes I do think that is notable, but the guy doesn't really create any offense and his shot has not been good.

[rjv]

To me these are signs of growing pains that come with acclimating to a longer season. Especially at his age.

exactly, the gruel of an 82 game season is taxing, especially on an 18 year old.

[Atl Spur]

He’s doing fine. They’ve thrown a lot at him and it will all slow down in time.

[BackHome]

I think him also playing PG for G League is making him do things that are very uncomfortable for him but should help him next year hopefully with better handles and court awareness.

[Sugus]

So much for him having "grown out" of playing in the G-League :lol

[offset formation]

So much for him having "grown out" of playing in the G-League :lol

I really want to root for him but I'm always gonna have that sense of 'what-if' in my gut that we passed on Sengun. Dude would have been a VERY NICE addition to this team.

[John B]

I really want to root for him but I'm always gonna have that sense of 'what-if' in my gut that we passed on Sengun. Dude would have been a VERY NICE addition to this team.

Sengun is safe but his ceiling is a role player. Primo WHEN and IF he pans out will be an AS imo. Spurs need to risk big to win big.

[Sugus]

I really want to root for him but I'm always gonna have that sense of 'what-if' in my gut that we passed on Sengun. Dude would have been a VERY NICE addition to this team.

Yeah, don't tell me about it - I was team Sengun all the way pre-draft. And also team Haliburton last draft... :depressed


Sengun is safe but his ceiling is a role player. Primo WHEN and IF he pans out will be an AS imo. Spurs need to risk big to win big.

Lol, where'd you get that idea from? Take off the homer glasses, and you'll see Sengun has proved far more at the NBA level than Primo ever has. As much as I like Primo and believe in him as a prospect, he has shown next to nothing that implies he's a surefire NBA level player, let alone having an All-Star ceiling. His stepback 3 is nice but literally every guard coming into the league nowadays has that in their bag. Sengun's passing, court vision, dribbling and mobility are all above-average for a player of his size and position, he's (for now at least) the much better scorer, and so on.

I know we're all homers at heart, but come on lol. Rockettes nabbed a great one with him. And before you say his defense... He's a rookie, a big man rookie at that. It'll be bad his first couple years, who knows afterwards, but his offense is still a difference-maker. We can't say that about either part of Primo's game right now.

[John B]

Yeah, don't tell me about it - I was team Sengun all the way pre-draft. And also team Haliburton last draft... :depressed



Lol, where'd you get that idea from? Take off the homer glasses, and you'll see Sengun has proved far more at the NBA level than Primo ever has. As much as I like Primo and believe in him as a prospect, he has shown next to nothing that implies he's a surefire NBA level player, let alone having an All-Star ceiling. His stepback 3 is nice but literally every guard coming into the league nowadays has that in their bag. Sengun's passing, court vision, dribbling and mobility are all above-average for a player of his size and position, he's (for now at least) the much better scorer, and so on.

I know we're all homers at heart, but come on lol. Rockettes nabbed a great one with him. And before you say his defense... He's a rookie, a big man rookie at that. It'll be bad his first couple years, who knows afterwards, but his offense is still a difference-maker. We can't say that about either part of Primo's game right now.

I didn’t say Sengun was bad. I said he’s a safe pick at 11th, a role player which is normally pick 11 are. But Spurs already have plenty of role players, and one borderline AS. The Spurs needed to take a big swing at Primo and could pay big dividends IF he pans out. I hated the pick as everybody else. But in hindsight, I think the PATFO took a big swing, and I think it’s about time.

[buttsR4rebounding]

Yeah, don't tell me about it - I was team Sengun all the way pre-draft. And also team Haliburton last draft... :depressed



Lol, where'd you get that idea from? Take off the homer glasses, and you'll see Sengun has proved far more at the NBA level than Primo ever has. As much as I like Primo and believe in him as a prospect, he has shown next to nothing that implies he's a surefire NBA level player, let alone having an All-Star ceiling. His stepback 3 is nice but literally every guard coming into the league nowadays has that in their bag. Sengun's passing, court vision, dribbling and mobility are all above-average for a player of his size and position, he's (for now at least) the much better scorer, and so on.

I know we're all homers at heart, but come on lol. Rockettes nabbed a great one with him. And before you say his defense... He's a rookie, a big man rookie at that. It'll be bad his first couple years, who knows afterwards, but his offense is still a difference-maker. We can't say that about either part of Primo's game right now.

Haliburton and Sengun would have made this a much better team....alas. Can't win them all.

[offset formation]

Yeah, don't tell me about it - I was team Sengun all the way pre-draft. And also team Haliburton last draft... :depressed



Lol, where'd you get that idea from? Take off the homer glasses, and you'll see Sengun has proved far more at the NBA level than Primo ever has. As much as I like Primo and believe in him as a prospect, he has shown next to nothing that implies he's a surefire NBA level player, let alone having an All-Star ceiling. His stepback 3 is nice but literally every guard coming into the league nowadays has that in their bag. Sengun's passing, court vision, dribbling and mobility are all above-average for a player of his size and position, he's (for now at least) the much better scorer, and so on.

I know we're all homers at heart, but come on lol. Rockettes nabbed a great one with him. And before you say his defense... He's a rookie, a big man rookie at that. It'll be bad his first couple years, who knows afterwards, but his offense is still a difference-maker. We can't say that about either part of Primo's game right now.

Yeah Haliburton hurts but I'm hopeful Vassell has an extended run of increasing productivity, so it's not as acute.

And as for Primo's D, it got worse. Not only his ability to stay in front of quicker athletes, but his inability to keep an eye on his man. THE REASON he went back to Austin is because he got beat on two back cuts in a row, and then lost another with lackadaisical effort over like 4 possessions. Pop called timeout and very demostrably signaled for his replacement. I was not surprised at all to see him shipped back to Austin post-game despite Pop's earlier déclaration that it was sink or swim time in the NBA. It seems he sunk.

[offset formation]

I didn’t say Sengun was bad. I said he’s a safe pick at 11th, a role player which is normally pick 11 are. But Spurs already have plenty of role players, and one borderline AS. The Spurs needed to take a big swing at Primo and could pay big dividends IF he pans out. I hated the pick as everybody else. But in hindsight, I think the PATFO took a big swing, and I think it’s about time.

I'm hopeful youre correct, and im trying to stay positive about him. i mean he is the youngest person playing NBA basketball this year...but if the returns were already in today, Sengun was the right choice. We'll see.

[BackHome]

Yeah, don't tell me about it - I was team Sengun all the way pre-draft. And also team Haliburton last draft... :depressed

Yeah I liked Sengun their is a good video on YouTube of him being coached by Hakeem the dude still can put on those spin moves.

Lol, where'd you get that idea from? Take off the homer glasses, and you'll see Sengun has proved far more at the NBA level than Primo ever has. As much as I like Primo and believe in him as a prospect, he has shown next to nothing that implies he's a surefire NBA level player, let alone having an All-Star ceiling. His stepback 3 is nice but literally every guard coming into the league nowadays has that in their bag. Sengun's passing, court vision, dribbling and mobility are all above-average for a player of his size and position, he's (for now at least) the much better scorer, and so on.

I know we're all homers at heart, but come on lol. Rockettes nabbed a great one with him. And before you say his defense... He's a rookie, a big man rookie at that. It'll be bad his first couple years, who knows afterwards, but his offense is still a difference-maker. We can't say that about either part of Primo's game right now.

I liked Sengun there is a vid on YouTube that has him being coached by Hakeem man that dude still has those killer spin moves

[Sugus]

I didn’t say Sengun was bad. I said he’s a safe pick at 11th, a role player which is normally pick 11 are. But Spurs already have plenty of role players, and one borderline AS. The Spurs needed to take a big swing at Primo and could pay big dividends IF he pans out. I hated the pick as everybody else. But in hindsight, I think the PATFO took a big swing, and I think it’s about time.

I don't really agree.

It's easy now with hindsight to call Sengun a "safe pick", but at the time of the draft, there were a lot of questions regarding Sengun's game, having only played "lowly Euro ball" (:lol), how his supposed lack of athleticism would hinder his game, and how his mainly post-up game would translate to the modern NBA. Even this board, who should know better than doubting Euro prospects, was divided on him.

And again, I don't know what part of his game makes you so certain that he has a role-player ceiling, but I don't see it. His offense is extremely varied and polished for a rookie and there's no reason to think it won't continue to improve. He can shoot (relatively for a big), he can pass to hell and back, he's nimble and a quick thinker, and uses his body well. All things that can be improved and built upon. I remember people saying the same about Jokic when he was a rookie/2nd year player.... And he just kept getting better. Of course you can't expect that out of Sengun, but the point stands.

Lastly, I completely agree that the Primo pick was a swing, and I'm fine with it. I've grown to really like what Primo (could) bring to the table, and being the youngest in the league, has plenty of time to put it together. But again, I think it's ludicrous at best to say that player A has a "role-player ceiling" while player B has "All-Star potential", when one is showing an above-average rookie season, while the other is struggling to show he belongs in the NBA at all.

[MultiTroll]

25 minutes the performance vs Hornets for a just turned 19 year old?

Very good game.
I like it.

[D-Robinson 50 fan]

I liked Wagner and Sengun coming into this draft. I was surprised Wagner got drafted so high but he is looking really nice in Orlando and I really thought we would grab Alperen because he was available but we got Primo.

I like that Primo has supreme confidence while on the court and I hope he really tightens his handles in the off season. We desperately need another player that can actually create good to great offensive looks for himself or his teammates. The only player we have now that can consistently create a decent to good look offensively is DJ and it sucks that a lot of his looks are contested mid range pull ups if guarded by guards or wings.

[azarel]

yah we really do need another reliable shot creator to lighten up the load off DJ especially when nothing is falling in from the rest of the team. but primo does have that potential more so if compared to Lonnie or maybe vassell.

[Atl Spur]

Primo will be fine but we will need to flip assets here soon…… off-season will be huge!

[exstatic]

Primo was the only reason we were close a the end. He got a number of offensive rebounds to keep possessions alive.

The kid understands basketball.

[offset formation]

Pop just said this about Primo:

More from Pop on Primo's 4Q:

"He might make a mistake here or there, but everyone makes mistakes. There's nobody on the team who doesn’t make mistakes, including me. Every minute he is on the court, it really elevates his ability to be a good player in this league."

Can someone with more patience for Pop's BS juxtapose his comments with Pop's coaching decisions that belie these comments?!? Where was his patience with mistakes when he benched and then sent Primo back to Austin after saying it was sink or swim time? Where was Pop's faith in Primo getting better with each minute on the court for the first 45 odd games of the season?

[MultiTroll]

^ :lol "I'll retire when Tim Duncan retires."

[wildbill2u]

I'm not sure if it's the coaching he's getting, but when defending out on the perimeter he tends to really back off as though he's playing a semi-zone back toward the lane to give help there. That may be the defensive scheme we're using, but 10 feet is too much in my opinion against a really good SG outside the arc. He can't make up the ground in time if the SG gets a pass and is ready to shoot. Playing a little closer could keep that guy from even receiving a pass.

[exstatic]

Pop just said this about Primo:

More from Pop on Primo's 4Q:

"He might make a mistake here or there, but everyone makes mistakes. There's nobody on the team who doesn’t make mistakes, including me. Every minute he is on the court, it really elevates his ability to be a good player in this league."

Can someone with more patience for Pop's BS juxtapose his comments with Pop's coaching decisions that belie these comments?!? Where was his patience with mistakes when he benched and then sent Primo back to Austin after saying it was sink or swim time? Where was Pop's faith in Primo getting better with each minute on the court for the first 45 odd games of the season?

Surprised that you haven’t realized that there are two Pops, one who is the hard assed coach who benches players, or sends them down, and the other one who never ever throws players under the bus to the media. He learned that lesson from Bob Hill, who himself learned it the hard way.

[Mr. Body]

Pop just said this about Primo:

More from Pop on Primo's 4Q:

"He might make a mistake here or there, but everyone makes mistakes. There's nobody on the team who doesn’t make mistakes, including me. Every minute he is on the court, it really elevates his ability to be a good player in this league."

Can someone with more patience for Pop's BS juxtapose his comments with Pop's coaching decisions that belie these comments?!? Where was his patience with mistakes when he benched and then sent Primo back to Austin after saying it was sink or swim time? Where was Pop's faith in Primo getting better with each minute on the court for the first 45 odd games of the season?

I dunno, this doesn't really say anything about how Pop reacts to those mistakes or how Primo reacts to them. It's been pretty clear that Pop treats different players in various ways according to their personalities. Yanking a player in one situation might be deemed the right thing to do while letting another guy play through them works in another situation. He's done this for years.

[MultiTroll]

the hard assed coach who benches players, or sends them down,
:lol
https://media.kens5.com/assets/KENS/images/d1c425f5-de1a-49bf-bafe-815070914a6b/d1c425f5-de1a-49bf-bafe-815070914a6b_750x422.jpg

[KobesAchilles]

After watching Sengun a bit here in Houston, I have to say that I really like kid. He moves well on defense, has quick hands, he can pass and has a beautiful shot for a big. He even has adjusted to speed. He’s just a bit weak but that’s to be expected from a rookie. I wish we picked him

[Spurs Homer]

Where was primo last night?

[exstatic]

Where was primo last night?

Non-covid illness.

[Spurs Homer]

Non-covid illness.


aah

thanks- i fast fwded the game and probably missed the injury list

[wildbill2u]

You begin to wonder if the injury list is true when it appears that it might be in our benefit to tank some games, even if you don't want to tell the team and the world that you want them to lose to get to a better slot in the draft.

[Seventyniner]

You begin to wonder if the injury list is true when it appears that it might be in our benefit to tank some games, even if you don't want to tell the team and the world that you want them to lose to get to a better slot in the draft.

We should definitely be on the lookout for that. With Pop having the record basically in hand (going 0-16 the rest of the season would be a huge embarrassment as well as being extremely unlikely) I can see it happening.

But it won't be Primo sitting out games. It will be guys like Murray and Poeltl. I can't see Murray calmly accepting this, though.

[exstatic]

We should definitely be on the lookout for that. With Pop having the record basically in hand (going 0-16 the rest of the season would be a huge embarrassment as well as being extremely unlikely) I can see it happening.

But it won't be Primo sitting out games. It will be guys like Murray and Poeltl. I can't see Murray calmly accepting this, though.

We’ve been losing with Murray playing at a pretty good clip. Don’t see why they need to sit him more than a few times.

[KingKev]

Primo still looking like he is far from being a regular bench contributor.

[MultiTroll]

Did Primo block a little bit of the ball on that final defend vs OKC?

[exstatic]

Did Primo block a little bit of the ball on that final defend vs OKC?

Yes he did.

I’m not worried about him at all. He hit the rookie wall, and he’s also a little too much in his own head when shooting. He’s doing pretty much everything else right.

[rjv]

Primo still looking like he is far from being a regular bench contributor.

i thought his defense in the 4th quarter and especially in the last two minutes of the game last night probably earned him more playing time

[BacktoBasics]

Yes he did.

I’m not worried about him at all. He hit the rookie wall, and he’s also a little too much in his own head when shooting. He’s doing pretty much everything else right.

He definitely hit that rookie wall. I think he'll have a bigger second year jump than Lonnie.

[KingKev]

He definitely hit that rookie wall. I think he'll have a bigger second year jump than Lonnie.

Very low bar. What’s important is where he gets to by year 3 or 4. At such a young age there is no need to sound the alarm but he has gotten pretty good run as a rookie and I don’t feel like he has shown much.

[exstatic]

He’s showed a ton, but as you’d expect from someone so young, he hasn’t put it together at the same time. He has a great feel for the game,though. For a kid that’s barely 19, you rarely seem him in the wrong place, or doing something dumb.

His 3 pointer isn’t falling now,and I think that’s coloring perceptions of his game, but he’s still rebounding, passing well, defending, and in general, making good decisions.

[Atl Spur]

Bbiq is there….. skill is being honed! He’ll be a ok��

[KingKev]

Bbiq is there….. skill is being honed! He’ll be a ok��

I fully expect him to be “okay” but not the future perennial AS Spurs talk has him penciled in for.

[exstatic]

I fully expect him to be “okay” but not the future perennial AS Spurs talk has him penciled in for.

Wow, you, must be fun at parties.

No one has penciled him in as an All Star. That his ceiling, but if you can’t tell the difference between a ceiling, and what he will become,I can’t help you. The kid has a crossover, step back 3 at barely 19. The most valuable shot in the NBA is a 3 pointer you can consistently create for yourself. Stephen Curry isn’t valuable because he shoots and makes as many 3 pointers as he does, at the rate he does. He’s valuable because a big chunk of them are unassisted. You can’t throw a zone at Curry, because he doesn’t fucking care. You can’t play ball denial, because he’s already got the ball.

[John B]

People who dismiss Primo this early are the same people who would cash out their 401k at the slight dip. Ideally you take the BPA. But in a team desperately missing a tier 1, you take a big swing with this pick. Right then he’s a project, but could be a high reward if he pans out. The kid is 19 and will do things 19 year old kids do. But he has shown big strides in his ballhandling, his defense is passable, and Pop even had him close last night. Just chill and enjoy this kid become an AS.

[KingKev]

Wow, you, must be fun at parties.

No one has penciled him in as an All Star. That his ceiling, but if you can’t tell the difference between a ceiling, and what he will become,I can’t help you. The kid has a crossover, step back 3 at barely 19. The most valuable shot in the NBA is a 3 pointer you can consistently create for yourself. Stephen Curry isn’t valuable because he shoots and makes as many 3 pointers as he does, at the rate he does. He’s valuable because a big chunk of them are unassisted. You can’t throw a zone at Curry, because he doesn’t fucking care. You can’t play ball denial, because he’s already got the ball.

You and your step back 3’s. He has hit 3 of them at the NBA level. I’m sure he will become a quality player over time I’m just pointing out that many posters believe we have something special here when I don’t see much difference between him Keldon, Vassell even Walker at this stage in their rookie years.

[wildbill2u]

Primo has developed a hesitancy to shoot lately it seems. He's getting some decent minutes and should be more aggressive since he's supposed to be our future shooter. Let 'er fly, kid

[couchman]

Way too early to know what we have w Primo. Our player development curve says give him 2 years to cook and then see what is happening

[Mr. Body]

Primo has developed a hesitancy to shoot lately it seems. He's getting some decent minutes and should be more aggressive since he's supposed to be our future shooter. Let 'er fly, kid

To me, it seems Primo is spending all his energy and attention to getting his rotations and spots right on both sides of the court and not worrying about the other things.

[polandprzem]

I just stepped by to say this kid has some potential !

[BacktoBasics]

Very low bar. What’s important is where he gets to by year 3 or 4. At such a young age there is no need to sound the alarm but he has gotten pretty good run as a rookie and I don’t feel like he has shown much.
Not really. Considering his age and current limited contribution.

I have no issue with Lonnie’s progression. Some here want every pick to be an all star or they’re a bust. Lonnie has panned out nicely. Not a steal but solid.

[TD 21]

Not really. Considering his age and current limited contribution.

I have no issue with Lonnie’s progression. Some here want every pick to be an all star or they’re a bust. Lonnie has panned out nicely. Not a steal but solid.

He's been a replacement player throughout his nearly four year career.

In a vacuum, not a catastrophe for an 18th pick, but with his physical tools and raw skill set and this organization's reputation for player development, plus the fact that at the time he was their highest pick since Duncan, more was rightly expected.

[KingKev]

Not really. Considering his age and current limited contribution.

I have no issue with Lonnie’s progression. Some here want every pick to be an all star or they’re a bust. Lonnie has panned out nicely. Not a steal but solid.

I mostly agree here. If Primo becomes a solid bench contributor great. Walker as a low bar is because he’s had every opportunity to put it together and hasn’t. Most teams would not have been as patient with him.

[BacktoBasics]

I mostly agree here. If Primo becomes a solid bench contributor great. Walker as a low bar is because he’s had every opportunity to put it together and hasn’t. Most teams would not have been as patient with him.
I’m not sure that’s fair. I think most teams would have forgone developing him and simply cut him loose to see what he can do on his own. That to me would have been a disaster.

What you have now is a more team oriented and focused mid level player that is capable of giving any team an offensive punch on any given night.

He’s not a stud. He’s a great boost off the bench and every good team needs one.

[The Truth #6]

He’s lost his swagger. That’s not ideal. Not much to be excited about right now with him. Hopefully he’s a gym rat.

[Chinook]

Development isn't linear. I don't have any concern for Josh's recent performance. That said, I would hope that fans who expect the Spurs to improve mainly through the draft have taken in Primo's development. There's nothing abnormal about how he's playing. When you build through the draft, you're going to have years of decent talent playing poorly and a number of guys showing decently just as they're hitting free agency. If the Spurs choose the path of tanking until they get a star, they're likely to be bad for a long, long time. It's very possible that the Spurs draft well in a few months and still don't get a day-one starter out of the bunch. The team can and should look to make at least one big move pretty soon. Being young isn't the same thing as having a far-off window or long timeline. Windows only exist when they're open. If they Spurs are going to have a window, it'll be because they made the moves to force it open for a few years. What's unlikely to happen is a window opens because guys like Vassell, Primo and future picks just organically improve while on rookie deals.

[offset formation]

I fully expect him to be “okay” but not the future perennial AS Spurs talk has him penciled in for.

Sadly, I've come to agree. He is less athletic than I originally had him slated to be. He is better against larger defenders on the perimeter yet routinely gets scored on in the paint when he is facing one in the paint.

Offensively, he has less breakdown capabilities 1 on 1 than I originally hoped he had. He's gonna be a solid mid range and 3 pt guy which will eventually open up the drive for him but until he develops his shot a bit more, he needs to already be open to get off open shots. There was one atrocious drive last night where that was underscored.

Hell be good, no doubt. Just not sure he's gonna ever be a perennial an All-Star or even routinely the best player / scorer on the team. That said hes young af and the Spurs have a good history in player development, so theres always hope he's got a higher cieling than what seems obvious today.

[bluebellmaniac]

To me, it seems Primo is spending all his energy and attention to getting his rotations and spots right on both sides of the court and not worrying about the other things.

And that's exactly what he should be doing. Everything else comes after he knows where he should be in our complex offense. That is an absolute #1 first step. Then you add to your game every year.

Lonnie still doesn't have step #1 down.Thats why Lonnie will walk this summer. Couldn't get down step #1.

[tbdog]

My concern is we are still loaded with guards.

Murray/Jones
Vassell/Richardson/Walker/Primo

And we have three 1st rounders and only two true point guards. It might be one those cases that you let walker just go just because.

[KingKev]

Development isn't linear. I don't have any concern for Josh's recent performance. That said, I would hope that fans who expect the Spurs to improve mainly through the draft have taken in Primo's development. There's nothing abnormal about how he's playing. When you build through the draft, you're going to have years of decent talent playing poorly and a number of guys showing decently just as they're hitting free agency. If the Spurs choose the path of tanking until they get a star, they're likely to be bad for a long, long time. It's very possible that the Spurs draft well in a few months and still don't get a day-one starter out of the bunch. The team can and should look to make at least one big move pretty soon. Being young isn't the same thing as having a far-off window or long timeline. Windows only exist when they're open. If they Spurs are going to have a window, it'll be because they made the moves to force it open for a few years. What's unlikely to happen is a window opens because guys like Vassell, Primo and future picks just organically improve while on rookie deals.

I like this take. Having guys develop in to solid players just in time to pay them is fine as long as you get crafty with the assets you have developed similar to what we did with G Hill and D White.

The problem is over the next few years we are going to be sitting on a 8-10 solid players many of which will come due for a pay raise yet we will still be play-in bound at best. I’d like to see some bold moves to consolidate talent when it presents itself over the next year or so.

[KingKev]

My concern is we are still loaded with guards.

Murray/Jones
Vassell/Richardson/Walker/Primo

And we have three 1st rounders and only two true point guards. It might be one those cases that you let walker just go just because.

With Langford in the wings. Coach Pop has the perfect solution though…. Play guys out of position. I really hope this upcoming draft day and offseason we focus on proper roster construction. If you are going to draft a few more tweeners fine atleast move 3-4 of the above for a starter.

[Texas eye]

Package him in a trade.

[Atl Spur]

Primo is going to be fine, it starts between the ears! Give him a little time and please exercise some patience. He’s a baby in this league…..

[cd98]

He's two years away from seeing his true potential. We'll know in two years what he will be, more or less.

[buttsR4rebounding]

He definitely hit that rookie wall. I think he'll have a bigger second year jump than Lonnie.

That bar is so low it would take a step rather than a jump.

[BacktoBasics]

That bar is so low it would take a step rather than a jump.

This is a popular take but it’s really inaccurate.

He had less than 20 games played his first year and over 60 the next. Doubled his scoring in both his second and third season and figured out how to play defense.

Primo is not only younger but already playing at a higher level than Lonnie’s first year.

This group is so ridiculous at times. A few posts up someone wants to package him in a trade. The stupidity here is embarrassing.

[offset formation]

His speed/quickness is...underwhelming. I expected more.

Tonight's debacle is precisely the kind of game he needs to flex some athleticism and show he's a first round pick. Pop is out. It's a blowout. And he's turning the ball over and being beyond timid. He's looking like Luka out there, lost and shy.

I'm quickly becoming nonplussed by his upside potential

[offset formation]

He definitely hit that rookie wall. I think he'll have a bigger second year jump than Lonnie.

Meh...you could always see the raw athleticism of Lonnie though and that pretty stroke. Can you say what you see in his game (beyond his nice shooting form) that is in anyway ihopeful he can become a player that does more than shoot 3s?

[Mr. Body]

I still contend Primo is trying to think through his plays and rotations instead of simply playing. I'm not too concerned about him at this point. He just turned 19 a few months ago.

[objective]

He's been a subpar athlete the whole time, most of why I haven't been on the all-star bandwagon. Hope he succeeds, happy to watch him instead of Forbes, but he's a lot closer to Kyle Anderson athleticism than people are comfortable admitting.

His upside is probably limited because of it. Had my first "uh-oh" on his first basket in summer league. Everyone was so impressed that he got a step back 2 on that play, I could only see him completely unable to get a step on some nobody summer league undrafted scrub.

And it's not like he's underdeveloped physically, he's a lot closer to his mature physique than most 19 year old players.

Nice looking shot, very promising passing touch especially over the top, seems like he can eventually be a nice defender as he develops, and maybe that's fair for his pick spot.

[Mr. Body]

Christ, he's definitely not Kyle Anderson in athleticism. Who thought he was a major athlete, though? We were talking last summer about how he'll have to develop advanced dribble moves to get open because he doesn't have the burst. What he does have is a big physique for a guard.

[The Truth #6]

In open growth plates we trust.

[XDT76]

I am also not hopeful of him becoming a high level at this point in time, he seems to lose the ball everytime he puts it down on the floor, his athleticism is meh and his shooting/scoring is regressing. Only thing that goes for him is FT.

[offset formation]

Christ, he's definitely not Kyle Anderson in athleticism. Who thought he was a major athlete, though? We were talking last summer about how he'll have to develop advanced dribble moves to get open because he doesn't have the burst. What he does have is a big physique for a guard.

It's not as far off a comparison as one would think. Slomo had about the same ability to get past his defender as Primo has shown.

And while you're correct that we knew Primo needed handling improvement, that was because he was routinely getting picked by his defender especially on drives. It wasn't first step explosion handles. It was, dont turn the ball over each time he runs point.

What I was not seeing then yet, was his almost complete lack of a burst step young 1st round guard players have to get lane penetration. And maybe that's because he was turning it over so much I didn't catch his lack of quick twitch muscle.

He's gonna be a good pro. He'll likely average 15-20 at some point. But the hope for a 28ppg average scorer that many on this board had for him, like a Devin Booker type, are increasingly unrealistic projections.

Which, imo, means he's not untouchable as a trade piece to maybe move up in this draft, packaged with a draft pick or two, to go get that franchise pick if PATFO believes is there in this draft. The best talent looks to be 1-5 and well likely be in the 6-10 range.

[Fireball]

Offseason can't come too early for Josh ... he needs to reset the clock

[Atl Spur]

Let me get this…… 19 yrs old playing in a league full of grown men is having growing pains……sounds about right! Some of you sound crazy as hell!!! Give him a year or two; I’ve already seen improvement in some areas

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Let me get this…… 19 yrs old playing in a league full of grown men is having growing pains……sounds about right! Some of you sound crazy as hell!!! Give him a year or two; I’ve already seen improvement in some areas

Very few people around here have a notion of player development. Mostly live in the moment reactionary types.

[offset formation]

Very few people around here have a notion of player development. Mostly live in the moment reactionary types.

What's your view on Lonnie?

This is funny to me since exstatic liked your post, and he's been down on Lonnie and Luka pretty much since day 1. Spurstalk is a funny place.

[wildbill2u]

When he first came up to the big team he was taking open shots like a natural shooter. Now he's passing those shots up and trying to drive the lane or pass off. Is he getting too much criticism/coaching from coaches or players for taking those outside shots or just playing scared because of his shooting percentages? Whatever it is, his offensive development seems to be going backward with the more minutes he gets. On the other hand, I think his defense, passing, and all-around court awareness and BBIQ is better than expected for his age and experience.

OK. He's 19. I get it. But all of us were hoping for a faster offensive development if he got more time on court this year. Not happening. So we'll wait for Summer League and next year.

[Atl Spur]

Has primo grown in weight/height?

[GAustex]

So our young first round lotto pick is a turnover machine who really cannot shoot too well but every now and then makes a play I guess is doing OK.
He really just does not do much.

[Atl Spur]

So our young first round lotto pick is a turnover machine who really cannot shoot too well but every now and then makes a play I guess is doing OK.
He really just does not do much.

Yep……that about sums it up. You gotta love 19 year old Rookies:)

[offset formation]

Yep……that about sums it up. You gotta love 19 year old Rookies:)

There are other 19 yr olds and 20 year olds that showed plenty this year, and that do so in every draft class. He's gonna be a solid pro, but you might consider taking off the Spurs glasses if you think he'll be a Anthony Edwards or Devin Booker or even a Josh Giddey.

[exstatic]

There are other 19 yr olds and 20 year olds that showed plenty this year, and that do so in every draft class. He's gonna be a solid pro, but you might consider taking off the Spurs glasses if you think he'll be a Anthony Edwards or Devin Booker or even a Josh Giddey.

That’s just the point. He wasn’t 19 and he wasn’t 20 when drafted. He was an 18 YO kid. Hell, he’s younger than a lot of the players in THIS draft. You can’t know what he will be at his age with just a handful of games played. If you had that ability, you’d be working in an NBA front office.

[azarel]

When he first came up to the big team he was taking open shots like a natural shooter. Now he's passing those shots up and trying to drive the lane or pass off. Is he getting too much criticism/coaching from coaches or players for taking those outside shots or just playing scared because of his shooting percentages? Whatever it is, his offensive development seems to be going backward with the more minutes he gets. On the other hand, I think his defense, passing, and all-around court awareness and BBIQ is better than expected for his age and experience.

OK. He's 19. I get it. But all of us were hoping for a faster offensive development if he got more time on court this year. Not happening. So we'll wait for Summer League and next year.

it seems that coach pop was kind of right to send him to austin to get him more consistent playing time to learn the team's system. and he looked good playing with the main team whenver he was shuttling back and forth between austin and spurs. probably those additional mins in G league and having a more defined role help in his confidence and allowed him to work on his game.

[GAustex]

Maybe things will change but he has shown as of now he ain’t special

[Atl Spur]

Comedic gold

[MultiTroll]

:) Can we give him a summer away from day to day game grind and let him reset for next season?
Beezus.

[GAustex]

NM

[John B]

Timmy Duncan almost got red-shirted at that age

[exstatic]

The Church of the Open Growth Plates…

[MultiTroll]

Jonathan Kuminga looked like ass vs Boston a few nights ago.
7th overall pick

Primo can have off games too.

[MannyIsGod]

I mean Primo isn't having an off game, he's having an off season. But who cares? He's 19. He's shown some great attributes - namely great defensive potential and great court vision.


I think people always have way too high of expectations of young players here. This is why Spurs players typically go spend a year in Austin first.

[D-Robinson 50 fan]

I’m not gonna lie and say I was happy when we drafted Joshua over Sengun but I think folks do need to give the kid some time.

he hasn’t looked that great in a lot of the G League or NBA minutes he has played but he also hasn’t looked totally lost when getting NBA minutes. Him not looking totally lost is a big deal. He has a long way to go but I’m not gonna give up on the young man so quickly, he just turned 19 in December. Lol

[MultiTroll]

When he first came up to the big team he was taking open shots like a natural shooter. Now he's passing those shots up and trying to drive the lane or pass off. Is he getting too much criticism/coaching from coaches or players for taking those outside shots or just playing scared because of his shooting percentages? Whatever it is, his offensive development seems to be going backward with the more minutes he gets. On the other hand, I think his defense, passing, and all-around court awareness and BBIQ is better than expected for his age and experience.

OK. He's 19. I get it. But all of us were hoping for a faster offensive development if he got more time on court this year. Not happening. So we'll wait for Summer League and next year.
+1.
Biggest concern.
He was letting them fly freely early and hitting. Now appears to be in think about it glitch mode.

[emanueldavidginobili]

That’s just the point. He wasn’t 19 and he wasn’t 20 when drafted. He was an 18 YO kid. Hell, he’s younger than a lot of the players in THIS draft. You can’t know what he will be at his age with just a handful of games played. If you had that ability, you’d be working in an NBA front office.
Yup I just went through Kevin O'Connors big board and he is younger than 19 of the 30 players projected in the 1st round, younger than Chet, Ivey, Banchero, Murray.

[KingKev]

I’m still confident in the Spurs ability to develop players but the youth argument won’t last forever when especially when given consistent opportunities. He gets the start tonight vs Warriors.

Last time we played them their youth and unknowns embarrassed our guys.

[offset formation]

Jonathan Kuminga looked like ass vs Boston a few nights ago.
7th overall pick

Primo can have off games too.

Off nights are absolutely expected. Even off months.

Primo hasn't really had a good game. He defers. He gets beat on back cuts. He doesn't box out. He doesn't beat his defender on drives. Those have nothing to do with age.

And comparing him to Kuminga is not a wise choice. He's like the 3rd youngest player. Only 2 months older than Primo. Didn't even start playing until he was 10. Now he's averaging 9 ppg. I mean comparing him to all people, Kuminga shouldn't be the guy because it underscores Josh's substandard play in comparison. Primo is getting 2 more minutes a game and averaging about half the points and 2/3 the rebounds. He's 1" shorter.

I'll say it again for the record: Primo will be a solid player for us. Probably average 15-20 someday as his shot comes along. But the ideas many of us had by jumping up and grabbing this kid a year early basically, we all foresaw a *potential All-Star* At least I did. And I've had the notion disabused from me rather unapologetically by the end of his 1st year.

[Chinook]

I don't think Primo is too limited physically to be an MVP-caliber player. Obviously he's almost certainly not getting to that level, but I've seen nothing from him that puts a real ceiling yet. Comparing Josh to Kuminga directly doesn't make sense. Kuminga has been a professional basketball player for two years now. If Primo was going to be a top-five pick in this upcoming draft, he was going to be where Kuminga was last summer, not where he now. The Spurs may yet draft a top-five pick in June, and if they do get one, the very likely possibility is that that player goes into the summer league and looks way worse than Primo does. A year makes a big difference. If that likelihood is disheartening, then it's more evidence for why teams shouldn't expect to build through the draft. It usually takes time to adjust to the NBA game. Guys at the end of the first are often chosen for their NBA-readiness, so Spurs fans have seen rookies who can come in and play a role on a winning team before. But bad teams stay bad for a long time in large part because their top option take years to become positive players.

Also, this is why sending players down to Austin as a matter of course often doesn't make sense. Part of why Primo is struggling to fit in is because he spent months playing a role he wasn't going to play in the NBA. He wasn't an uber prospect who was going to get the ball immediately. He didn't need to learn how to be that guy right off the bat. He's likely not going to be that guy next year either. If he had instead spent the season as a bench player, he might have adjusted in time to have legit earned a rotation spot by this point in the season.

[cd98]

I have no issues with him playing in Austin. It is an opportunity to get minutes and compete against real men and not college guys. It makes a big difference. And tbh, Kuminga was in the G-League last year. That would be the equivalent of Josh Primo in the G-League this year. And I'd bet if Primo went to Austin next year, he'd look good and put up stats that were as good as Kuminga's stats. That doesn't mean he'll be an NBA star just like Kuminga's performance in the G-League doesn't mean anything once he's in the NBA. But I don't see Primo's play, good and bad, as really telling us anything right now. I mean Kobe was his age when he came into the NBA, and while Kobe was better, no doubt, Kobe struggled a lot for several years before putting it all together. He had moments, but he was a good 2-3 years in the league before he ascended.

[MultiTroll]

And comparing him to Kuminga is not a wise choice. He's like the 3rd youngest player. Only 2 months older than Primo. Didn't even start playing until he was 10. Now he's averaging 9 ppg. I mean comparing him to all people, Kuminga shouldn't be the guy because it underscores Josh's substandard play in comparison. Primo is getting 2 more minutes a game and averaging about half the points and 2/3 the rebounds. He's 1" shorter.
Twinky Kerrs freedom to shoot offense vs Pops head game ____ (what the hell is his offense?) may be a huge factor.
Def worried as others have if Pop is making Primo think too much about shots.
If not and this is all Primo 100% then lets hope he grows out of it.
Definite difference between 1st half dozen games and now.

[ducks]

Non-covid illness.

You mean you can get sick without having Covid
My god most do not think so now

[BacktoBasics]

You mean you can get sick without having Covid
My god most do not think so now

Every time you post it’s a reminder that you’re one of the dumbest fucks ever to login to this forum.

[rjv]

Every time you post it’s a reminder that you’re one of the dumbest fucks ever to login to this forum.

associating ducks with dumb fucks is an insult to dumb fucks

[Atl Spur]

That man has 69k post……..this is his life! Live your best life Duckster!!!

[TheChillFactor]

logged in this morning to read the usual stupid as fuck basketball opinions and feminine backbiting that goes on in this forum, was not disappointed.

[KingKev]

logged in this morning to read the usual stupid as fuck basketball opinions and feminine backbiting that goes on in this forum, was not disappointed.

and provide some yourself?

[wildbill2u]

Primo never seems to get into layup territory with his drives. Not as slow as you know who, but easily intimidated when he goes inside and finds opposition. Needs to learn to take his lumps as a skinny player and get some free throws out of his efforts to drive instead of trying to pass off inside almost every time. His teammates aren't finding him when standing around outside for the corner three so they may not have any confidence in his shooting percentage.

He's playing defense better and better with good footwork to keep him in front of his man. I'm glad to see him getting more minutes at the beginning of games and closing minutes so the coaches can see what he can do--and he can build up his confidence. If he could shoot 40% of his threes we could trade some players-- or sit Keldon down

[exstatic]

Primo never seems to get into layup territory with his drives. Not as slow as you know who, but easily intimidated when he goes inside and finds opposition. Needs to learn to take his lumps as a skinny player and get some free throws out of his efforts to drive instead of trying to pass off inside almost every time. His teammates aren't finding him when standing around outside for the corner three so they may not have any confidence in his shooting percentage.

He's playing defense better and better with good footwork to keep him in front of his man. I'm glad to see him getting more minutes at the beginning of games and closing minutes so the coaches can see what he can do--and he can build up his confidence. If he could shoot 40% of his threes we could trade some players-- or sit Keldon down

Do you even watch the games? Primo is NOT skinny.

As for layups, he understands the modern game, and his role on this particular team. He often drives into layup territory, and whips a pass out to an open teammate at the three point line.

[GAustex]

Led the team in turnovers again last night
A reoccurring issue

[offset formation]

Primo never seems to get into layup territory with his drives. Not as slow as you know who, but easily intimidated when he goes inside and finds opposition. Needs to learn to take his lumps as a skinny player and get some free throws out of his efforts to drive instead of trying to pass off inside almost every time. His teammates aren't finding him when standing around outside for the corner three so they may not have any confidence in his shooting percentage.

THIS has been my biggest revelation about Primo's game.

I have learned that he seems destined to be at best, a jump shooter due to his inability to beat his defender. It's primarily a lack of quickness but also probably knowledge that he's gonna be met by a big to block his shot.

[offset formation]

Do you even watch the games? Primo is NOT skinny.

As for layups, he understands the modern game, and his role on this particular team. He often drives into layup territory, and whips a pass out to an open teammate at the three point line.

Murray understands the modern game too while dishing out 9+ APG. This has nothing whatsoever to do with "understanding the game." He doesn't have the quick burst, the quick first step to get past his defender routinely. And when he does get past his defender he doesn't even try to finish 95% of the time. So he whips out a pass that seems to get picked more often than not.

[emanueldavidginobili]

Primo never seems to get into layup territory with his drives. Not as slow as you know who, but easily intimidated when he goes inside and finds opposition. Needs to learn to take his lumps as a skinny player and get some free throws out of his efforts to drive instead of trying to pass off inside almost every time. His teammates aren't finding him when standing around outside for the corner three so they may not have any confidence in his shooting percentage.

He's playing defense better and better with good footwork to keep him in front of his man. I'm glad to see him getting more minutes at the beginning of games and closing minutes so the coaches can see what he can do--and he can build up his confidence. If he could shoot 40% of his threes we could trade some players-- or sit Keldon down
8 of his 12 points yesterday were in the paint, as he gets older, stronger and more comfortable I don't think he will have a problem getting to the rim. But I agree his defense is getting better.

1508044914126372865

[KingKev]

^ there were 5 other plays where he was a step too slow. He does seem to have good hands/instincts on the defensive end so I expect him to become an average to above average defender if the effort is there. Twitter analysts who end their analysis with #PorVida are about as good as some of the bottom feeder here.

[RC_Drunkford]

Murray understands the modern game too while dishing out 9+ APG. This has nothing whatsoever to do with "understanding the game." He doesn't have the quick burst, the quick first step to get past his defender routinely. And when he does get past his defender he doesn't even try to finish 95% of the time. So he whips out a pass that seems to get picked more often than not.

he has to work on his handles. I can see him having a Harden like game, using dribble moves and strength more so than speed

[emanueldavidginobili]

^ there were 5 other plays where he was a step too slow. He does seem to have good hands/instincts on the defensive end so I expect him to become an average to above average defender if the effort is there. Twitter analysts who end their analysis with #PorVida are about as good as some of the bottom feeder here.
Lmao I agree, the potential is there though to be a solid defender who can block shots but yeah I haven't seen anything from him showing he can be an All Defensive player like that guy said.

[Mr. Body]

He's going to be more than fine on defense.

[Atl Spur]

1st year in the league….news flash he’ll have some things to figure out:) Right now we are looking for traits, hustle/desire, and iq in year one. He is plenty big enough as well as quick enough. To say what he won’t ever become in year one isn’t worth a discussion at this point:)

[offset formation]

Speed kills in the NBA (see Booker, Morant, etc). Without it, you'd better be deadly from the outside, be a good passer, and/or have better than average handles to create space to take a shot closer in. Hopefully his passing and shooting come around some, otherwise he'll quickly be pigeonholed as an occasionally streaky 3 pt shooter. I think he'll have games where he goes 6 for 8 from three but I'm just not seeing the ability to ever be a consistent scorer near the rim, except on putbacks.

As of right now, at least.

[Degoat]

People gotta chill on the Primo early evaluation, he’s still a teenager lol

[spurraider21]

My concern is we are still loaded with guards.

Murray/Jones
Vassell/Richardson/Walker/Primo

And we have three 1st rounders and only two true point guards. It might be one those cases that you let walker just go just because.
Richardson isn’t a long term piece and will likely be moved next year at the deadline. I wouldn’t consider Jones as part of any logjam that would prevent me from adding talent to that position

[spurraider21]

He's two years away from seeing his true potential. We'll know in two years what he will be, more or less.
Samanic thread?

[BatManu20]

Just no way to properly evaluate a 19 year-old tbh. He’s a kid playing against grown men. The next 2 seasons will be telling. Hopefully he ends up being a good player for us.

[azarel]

Speed kills in the NBA (see Booker, Morant, etc). Without it, you'd better be deadly from the outside, be a good passer, and/or have better than average handles to create space to take a shot closer in. Hopefully his passing and shooting come around some, otherwise he'll quickly be pigeonholed as an occasionally streaky 3 pt shooter. I think he'll have games where he goes 6 for 8 from three but I'm just not seeing the ability to ever be a consistent scorer near the rim, except on putbacks.

As of right now, at least.

tbh i think right now Primo's mindset is probably just to defer and look to create and pass to his "more senior" team mates - probably that explains why he looks so passive while dribbling into the lanes and he has a good enough shooting form to hit those 3's consistently but i guess right now he is just overthinking on each play. probably he will get more adjusted to the pace of the game and everything will just click for him.

[spurs1990]

Timmy Duncan almost got red-shirted at that age

Duncan was 17 his entire freshman year, and the next year would’ve been the first pick in the 1995 draft had he come out as I recall. Would’ve been 19 his entire rookie NBA season

[rjv]

i think primo has been looking pretty good this past week but then again i temper my expectations accordingly.

[emanueldavidginobili]

1508636032853594116
Yeah I know, angles. But Josh looks gigantic compared to Lonnie in this picture.

[The Truth #6]

1508636032853594116
Yeah I know, angles. But Josh looks gigantic compared to Lonnie in this picture.

I heard you could drive a Mack truck through those open growth plates!

[BatManu20]

Both Lonnie and Primo measured at 6’4 barefoot at the combine so unless Primo grew another inch, it’s probably just the angle + Primo’s hair.

[Dverde]

Seems like the preseason over confidence on Primo has worn off. He used to play more fearless. I hope it’s him realizing there is a lot more growth needed to be an elite NBA player. Still glad he is getting minutes. He’s still a couple years away from his true potential

[Dejounte]

https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/jordan-poole-of-the-golden-state-warriors-talks-to-keldon-johnson-of-picture-id1239382081?s=2048x2048




https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/joshua-primo-of-the-san-antonio-spurs-hugs-jaesean-tate-of-the-the-picture-id1239582556?s=2048x2048

[offset formation]

tbh i think right now Primo's mindset is probably just to defer and look to create and pass to his "more senior" team mates - probably that explains why he looks so passive while dribbling into the lanes and he has a good enough shooting form to hit those 3's consistently but i guess right now he is just overthinking on each play. probably he will get more adjusted to the pace of the game and everything will just click for him.

It's either this or he simply isn't as quick as many of us hoped and/or thought. And perhaps the real answer is that he's not a PG or SG as Pop is playing him at the most minutes. Maybe he's grown out of being a SG into a SF and he simply doesn't need the quickness. Perhaps he's our 3 and D guy and we all just have him out of position.

[The Truth #6]

I’m mostly worried he’s lost his irrational confidence. When he was drafted I was hoping for Mamba Mentality (not the same talent, obviously), but less rapey and sociopathic. He was a different player in preseason.

It seems to be a pattern for good or bad. Player gets overwhelmed learning to play the right way. Doesn’t know their role. Learns the system. At the end is coached to “stay aggressive”.

Feels like the military bootcamp approach.

[exstatic]

I’m mostly worried he’s lost his irrational confidence. When he was drafted I was hoping for Mamba Mentality (not the same talent, obviously), but less rapey and sociopathic. He was a different player in preseason.

It seems to be a pattern for good or bad. Player gets overwhelmed learning to play the right way. Doesn’t know their role. Learns the system. At the end is coached to “stay aggressive”.

Feels like the military bootcamp approach.

That happened to exactly one player: Lonnie Walker.

Primo has no problem putting the ball on the floor and going to the hoop for a bucket or an assist. Right now, it looks like his shot is under construction, and it needed it. He literally injured himself landing after a 3 pointer earlier in the season. When he gets comfortable with his new jump and landing and his shot starts falling, no one will be talking about this nonsense.

[The Truth #6]

That happened to exactly one player: Lonnie Walker.

Primo has no problem putting the ball on the floor and going to the hoop for a bucket or an assist. Right now, it looks like his shot is under construction, and it needed it. He literally injured himself landing after a 3 pointer earlier in the season. When he gets comfortable with his new jump and landing and his shot starts falling, no one will be talking about this nonsense.

Wrong. The typical path is for players to get lost the first year, at least, learning the Spurs way.

For example, Pop talked for years about Parker needing to bring consistent energy and aggressiveness. In your dislike for Walker, you’re really blinding yourself. Not everything is black and white. It affects some players more than others, but to disregard how the Spurs operate and how players talk about their adjustment here is sort of shocking.

[The Truth #6]

That happened to exactly one player: Lonnie Walker.

Primo has no problem putting the ball on the floor and going to the hoop for a bucket or an assist. Right now, it looks like his shot is under construction, and it needed it. He literally injured himself landing after a 3 pointer earlier in the season. When he gets comfortable with his new jump and landing and his shot starts falling, no one will be talking about this nonsense.

Wrong. The typical path is for players to get lost the first year, at least, learning the Spurs way.

For example, Pop talked for years about Parker needing to bring consistent energy and aggressiveness. In your dislike for Walker, you’re really blinding yourself. Not everything is black and white. It affects some players more than others, but to disregard how the Spurs operate and how players talk about their adjustment here is sort of shocking.

[Mr. Body]

A lot of panicky takes here. Primo has good athleticism and is totally fine handling the ball or as a SG type in sets. That's literally what he runs sometimes. He had a really great athletic drive that showed what he can do last night. Maybe he doesn't have elite burst or hops, but that's okay. Lots of players don't.

Meanwhile, he's rebuilt his jumpshot and is learning where to go and what to do. This is pretty obvious. He's not doing the freelancing he was doing over the summer because he's concentrating on becoming a Spur. Maybe that bothers you; maybe you need a different team to follow? I dunno. With his shot, he was favoring one leg and no longer is. Clearly this has affected his percentage, but he's not stopped shooting and I'm not worried that he'll start hitting again.

[exstatic]

Wrong. The typical path is for players to get lost the first year, at least, learning the Spurs way.

For example, Pop talked for years about Parker needing to bring consistent energy and aggressiveness. In your dislike for Walker, you’re really blinding yourself. Not everything is black and white. It affects some players more than others, but to disregard how the Spurs operate and how players talk about their adjustment here is sort of shocking.

You never limited it to the first year in your original post that I quoted.

[The Truth #6]

A lot of panicky takes here. Primo has good athleticism and is totally fine handling the ball or as a SG type in sets. That's literally what he runs sometimes. He had a really great athletic drive that showed what he can do last night. Maybe he doesn't have elite burst or hops, but that's okay. Lots of players don't.

Meanwhile, he's rebuilt his jumpshot and is learning where to go and what to do. This is pretty obvious. He's not doing the freelancing he was doing over the summer because he's concentrating on becoming a Spur. Maybe that bothers you; maybe you need a different team to follow? I dunno. With his shot, he was favoring one leg and no longer is. Clearly this has affected his percentage, but he's not stopped shooting and I'm not worried that he'll start hitting again.

He’s young and lots can happen. Him becoming a “Spur” and not “freelancing” is sort of an odd distinction you’re making.
I argue they initially wanted his bravado and wanted him to be a star player, someone who, yes, “freelances”, which is why they picked him so high. And maybe they want or expect a very slow path to get there. But him learning to be a role player right now has its positives and negatives. It’s definitely worthy of a conversation. Not acknowledging this seems sort of silly. And no, I’m still a Spurs fan, and yes I can question these things. Are you a fan of McCarthy or something?

[Mr. Body]

He’s young and lots can happen. Him becoming a “Spur” and not “freelancing” is sort of an odd distinction you’re making.
I argue they initially wanted his bravado and wanted him to be a star player, someone who, yes, “freelances”, which is why they picked him so high. And maybe they want or expect a very slow path to get there. But him learning to be a role player right now has its positives and negatives. It’s definitely worthy of a conversation. Not acknowledging this seems sort of silly. And no, I’m still a Spurs fan, and yes I can question these things. Are you a fan of McCarthy or something?

I don't understand what you're saying. If he's learning the sets, where to go and what to do, not to mention the pace and physicality of the league, going off and doing his own thing isn't what he's supposed to be doing right now. It's the opposite of what he's supposed to be doing and he's clearly playing differently than he did in summer league. It's not a big mystery.

[The Truth #6]

On a larger level, I’m wondering (not stating I have the answer here) that their typical way to develop players may create role players more than develop a star, and in that vein, I’m trying to figure out Primo’s trajectory.

Obviously, there are few stars in the league. The Spurs developed Parker, Nephew, and Dejounte, so I’m not denying it can’t happen.

I expect him to have to adjust to the NBA. But I don’t like that part of his adjustment has been playing with less of what was good about him. He came in super confident. I wish his confidence and bravado had improved not decreased, because I think he needs to be an irrational confidence guy to take the next step.

Lots of time still. So we’ll see.

[KingKev]

Primo’s trajectory has been fine. 90% of Spurstalk’s expectations were always irrational. He hasn’t shown anything at the collegiate, G-League or NBA level to warrant what many here thought of him.

[The Truth #6]

^ Fair points, also.

[MultiTroll]

I expect him to have to adjust to the NBA. But I don’t like that part of his adjustment has been playing with less of what was good about him. He came in super confident. I wish his confidence and bravado had improved not decreased, because I think he needs to be an irrational confidence guy to take the next step.

Lots of time still. So we’ll see.
Wonder if Manu has any player dev style and strategy input or if its the Crater Face Show 100% until he passes?
OTOH Manu excelled with Popped as coach so it can be done.
Primo - Manu conversation: Would love to hear.

[offset formation]

That happened to exactly one player: Lonnie Walker.

Primo has no problem putting the ball on the floor and going to the hoop for a bucket or an assist.

What you talkin' bout, Willis?

He has lots of problems doing both of these, not sure which game youre watching?

Well maybe I should clarify...He may not have any problem putting it on the floor for a bucket, but he just rarely succeeds at this, nor the passout.

He routinely turns the ball over in the paint and practically never gets to the bucket when the other team's defense is set. He only scores in transition or off the jumper.

Any claim to the contrary is fiddlesticks.

[offset formation]

Primo’s trajectory has been fine. 90% of Spurstalk’s expectations were always irrational. He hasn’t shown anything at the collegiate, G-League or NBA level to warrant what many here thought of him.

This may be a fair statement. A large portion of my disappointment is that he is an entirely different player than I expected. He's never gonna be the slashing finish at the rim type player. He simply doesn't have that quickness. He could develop into a 3 and D guy though thats better even than a Danny Green type. But thats his trajectory as of now.

Honestly, I was so pissed we didnt take Sengun I had to talk myself into Primo being a potential future Booker. That's who I had hopes he could become.

I was wrong. He won't. And those were my hopes, not based on actual game tape though, only delusional Spurs-homer expectations. They were irrational and thats on me.

However, to be fair, Pop plays him primarily at the 1 or 2 moreso than at the 3. So it seems the staff is trying to make him more of a facilitator or ball handler than his skills demonstrate he should.

[tonight...you]

However, to be fair, Pop plays him primarily at the 1 or 2 moreso than at the 3. So it seems the staff is trying to make him more of a facilitator or ball handler than his skills demonstrate he should.

And I can kind of see why for several reasons.
He has court vision, he has the mentality to look at an ongoing play at multiple levels and he has some skill to do what he wants on the floor.
When I say he has some skill, I mean he has some good foundations to build upon, not that he has ready-made elite skills.

He's just a shade slow, a shade off on the pass angle, a shade dull on the pass speed... just shades off, but you can see him and his plans while he's working and things are already improving.
His handling is getting better. His shot is looking less like an injury waiting to happen as he's adjusting to it. Dude's a sponge it seems.
He's a kid and, with good coaching, he'll cull the bad and emphasize the good that he can do and then we can truly start seeing the player he can become.

I'm more than willing to give him a bit of time to hone his craft with this team and their development crew.

One thing I will say for certain: he's not going to go the way of Samanic. Probably not Lonnie either.
And he's already not being treated like them at this point in his career. Maybe that's a sign of encouragement, maybe that's a sign of Pop knowing this is a developmental team and is coaching as such.

Godspeed Joshua. We all want you to succeed.

[KingKev]

This may be a fair statement. A large portion of my disappointment is that he is an entirely different player than I expected. He's never gonna be the slashing finish at the rim type player. He simply doesn't have that quickness. He could develop into a 3 and D guy though thats better even than a Danny Green type. But thats his trajectory as of now.

Honestly, I was so pissed we didnt take Sengun I had to talk myself into Primo being a potential future Booker. That's who I had hopes he could become.

I was wrong. He won't. And those were my hopes, not based on actual game tape though, only delusional Spurs-homer expectations. They were irrational and thats on me.

However, to be fair, Pop plays him primarily at the 1 or 2 moreso than at the 3. So it seems the staff is trying to make him more of a facilitator or ball handler than his skills demonstrate he should.

I hope he proves us wrong but I think a bigger and potentially better shooting D White is a realistic goalpost.

The biggest intangible i’ve seen so far is he isn’t afraid to take a big shot.

[Mr. Body]

This may be a fair statement. A large portion of my disappointment is that he is an entirely different player than I expected. He's never gonna be the slashing finish at the rim type player. He simply doesn't have that quickness. He could develop into a 3 and D guy though thats better even than a Danny Green type. But thats his trajectory as of now.

Honestly, I was so pissed we didnt take Sengun I had to talk myself into Primo being a potential future Booker. That's who I had hopes he could become.

How did you talk to yourself into Primo as a slashing finisher and above the rim player? And Booker isn't even that player. Booker isn't all that athletic. This is very confusing.

[slick'81]

This is good playing time for the kid. Hopefully he gets more minutes next season. Those growth plates doh

[BackHome]

I would be very Happy if he is a better Danny Green as he has shown flashes that he can hit the 3 ball and well hopefully he will work on his individual D, but he is a good help defender.

[jjspur]

Right now Primo is doing ok, there were expectations considering where he was drafted and who was still left (Sengun). I like the kid but in retrospect he probably would have been drafted in the 20's. We'll never truly know since there is so much bs going on on draft night. Some players rise , some unexpectedly drop. We can speculate all we want, but will never know.

[Mnky]

Primo looks like a legit NBA player at 19. Not a superstar or a prodigy, a legit NBA player.

His prime is likely a decade away. An entire Decade away..

Kid is doing great and seems to still be growing. Pessimistic obsessions over Primo being available later in the draft are pretty odd. One of the best franchises at evaluating talent took him in the lottery and reports are the thunder had him high as well and they're not exactly bad at evaluation either.

He was a good pick. Whether he will be a great one, noone knows.

[cjw]

Primo looks like a legit NBA player at 19. Not a superstar or a prodigy, a legit NBA player.

His prime is likely a decade away. An entire Decade away..

Kid is doing great and seems to still be growing. Pessimistic obsessions over Primo being available later in the draft are pretty odd. One of the best franchises at evaluating talent took him in the lottery and reports are the thunder had him high as well and they're not exactly bad at evaluation either.

He was a good pick. Whether he will be a great one, noone knows.

There are kids Primo’s age who just finished high school. He’s VERY young and an unfinished product. Judging him on this season does little good. Let’s see where he is 12-18 months from now.

[Chinook]

My question is, who expected him to be a defense-first player? I didn't. I thought that would be an end where he struggles, and he's doing just fine. I doubt the Spurs cared much about his confidence. Primo has talent, but he doesn't have so much talent that him taking the ball is best for the team. He's not a guy like Walker who has amazing physical gifts but just can't harness them. He's going to have to be a cerebral player who learns to read his defender and set him up. That means he might not be a microwave guy like Lonnie hopefully will be, but he can be a great individual scorer and offensive centerpiece if he develops properly. He feels like another player in the DeRozan/Murray role who will continue to get better for a long time as he gains experience. I think against inexperienced college defenders, Primo would have shown that kind of scoring ability in a hypothetical sophomore season at Alabama. The curve will likely take longer in the NBA, but that why the team used the pick on him early.

[tim_duncan_fan]

For context, Keldon Johnson had moments where his shot looked good his first season.

We don't know what Primo is yet and he looks like a 10ppg guy already.. Maybe he is never more than that but we don't know. He has a ton of growing to do. Murray wasn't worth anything til this is what his sixth season?

[offset formation]

How did you talk to yourself into Primo as a slashing finisher and above the rim player? And Booker isn't even that player. Booker isn't all that athletic. This is very confusing.

Booker routinely finishes at the rim as often as he pulls up for a midrange or for a 3.

And if you reread what I wrote, youd see I clearly said Primo being a Booker was an irrational hope of mine, but there were others here with those expectations. I was wrong.

[Atl Spur]

Sit back and enjoy the process…. You boys don’t have to know everything today! Josh Primo hopefully make a nice jump next year :)

[Mr. Body]

Booker routinely finishes at the rim as often as he pulls up for a midrange or for a 3.

And if you reread what I wrote, youd see I clearly said Primo being a Booker was an irrational hope of mine, but there were others here with those expectations. I was wrong.

Primo literally does both of those things. He had a nice throw-down last game and he has step-backs in his game we're not seeing right now. He's also bigger than Booker is.

I don't know why people are shitting themselves about Primo's athleticism.

[cd98]

Nice to see us debating this instead of why we are the only bad team playing our starters and trying to win every game.

Regardless, Josh Primo is 19 as of a few months ago (December). He is playing with grown men that are highly talented. Anything he does this season is a plus. He should suck in the NBA right now and it will take at least 3 years of development to know if he will star or fade. But I though Murray was terrible his first 2-3 years and now he's an all-star and the best player on the team. It takes time for raw talent to develop. It doesn't always develop, but if it ever does, it's generally not in the first season for an 18 year old.

[Sugus]

Booker routinely finishes at the rim as often as he pulls up for a midrange or for a 3.

And if you reread what I wrote, youd see I clearly said Primo being a Booker was an irrational hope of mine, but there were others here with those expectations. I was wrong.

I agree with Mr Body here - why are you thinking it's an "irrational hope" that Primo could become a Booker-like player (of course, how close to Booker he'll get is anyone's guess, that's not the point)?

Booker isn't all that athletic nor quick, and he can dunk about as well as Primo can - efficient, lower-level dunks, nothing too crazy. What makes Booker so good is both his insane shooting ability from everywhere on the court, and the amount of moves he pulls to lose his defender, or the quality of "unguardable" shots he can pull off fading away. None of these are beyond Primo's eventual reach, and he's shown from day 1 that he's a shooter kind of player, which I love and the Spurs desperately need.

Primo's gone cold as of late but that's not an indictment at all on how he'll turn out - do you remember anything at all about Booker's rookie season? I'd guess not; you remember what he's doing now at 25, and a bit of his 23-24 seasons at most. Primo's six years away from where Booker is now, and coincidentally, both came into the league really young, too. I'd say it's a worse delusion to flat out say you were wrong, now, than it was to dream him up in the first place. Who's to know? Let the kid play, learn and grow, FFS.

As an addendum, you gotta remember too that Booker had an awful reputation his first couple years. Wasn't seen as a good player, was an inefficient chucker, was the poster boy for "good stats on a shit team", et al. It took some more top-lottery picks like Ayton, Bridges, and one of the best vets in the league in CP3, to turn his team (and image) around. But Devin's individual game didn't change all that much, which goes to show you how multi-factored this all is.

I'm not worried at all for Primo and it's far too early to put any kind of glass ceiling over his head, tbh.

[Drom John]

Duncan was 17 his entire freshman year, and the next year would’ve been the first pick in the 1995 draft had he come out as I recall. Would’ve been 19 his entire rookie NBA season

I had season tickets that year.
Duncan was the very raw third string center behind two other freshmen at the beginning of the year, designated for mop-up duties.
1st stringer, Maktar N'Diaye, started the first few games. Then the NCAA declared that N'Diaye couldn't play for Wake Forest because a Wake Forest Baptist missionary had too much alumni contact in the recruiting process.
Initial second stringer, Ricky Peral, started the next few, moving Duncan to backup. Then the NCAA declared that Peral couldn't play for a year because Peral was given too high of a per diem to play for the Spanish under 21 FIBA team. Peral became the starting PF the next three years.
Boom, the inexperienced Duncan starts his first game against North Carolina and the returning All-American Eric Montross. The scrub dominated Montross on both ends of the court. It was amazing. Montross was drafted 9th at the end of the season. And yes, Duncan would have been drafted much higher. The draft went Glenn Robinson, Jason Kidd, Grant Hill. I saw home games against California and Duke, and Jason Kidd had the best game of any player in in Wake game [probably the best in my 6.5 years of season tickets], then Duncan had the next best umpteen.

[The Truth #6]

Primo was basically non-existent last night then Pop yelled at him and he came to life and started getting into the lane and making plays. It was brief but good to see.

[Leetonidas]

His three point shot is broken right now, hasn't looked good in awhile.

Primo clearly has talent but he is extremely passive. Hoping this is just a rookie trying to fit in thing and he grabs the reigns next season because he is like pre-White trade Lonnie out there most of the time, just invisible on the court

[exstatic]

His three point shot is broken right now, hasn't looked good in awhile.

Primo clearly has talent but he is extremely passive. Hoping this is just a rookie trying to fit in thing and he grabs the reigns next season because he is like pre-White trade Lonnie out there most of the time, just invisible on the court

Primo is still more aggressive than start of his 4th season Lonnie.

[rjv]

yeah, primo doesn't come off as passive to me.

[KingKev]

Spurstalk trying to save face. If you aren’t concerned about Primo’s development after getting solid minutes his first year you are a sniffer.

[offset formation]

I agree with Mr Body here - why are you thinking it's an "irrational hope" that Primo could become a Booker-like player (of course, how close to Booker he'll get is anyone's guess, that's not the point)?

Booker isn't all that athletic nor quick, and he can dunk about as well as Primo can - efficient, lower-level dunks, nothing too crazy. What makes Booker so good is both his insane shooting ability from everywhere on the court, and the amount of moves he pulls to lose his defender, or the quality of "unguardable" shots he can pull off fading away. None of these are beyond Primo's eventual reach, and he's shown from day 1 that he's a shooter kind of player, which I love and the Spurs desperately need.

Primo's gone cold as of late but that's not an indictment at all on how he'll turn out - do you remember anything at all about Booker's rookie season? I'd guess not; you remember what he's doing now at 25, and a bit of his 23-24 seasons at most. Primo's six years away from where Booker is now, and coincidentally, both came into the league really young, too. I'd say it's a worse delusion to flat out say you were wrong, now, than it was to dream him up in the first place. Who's to know? Let the kid play, learn and grow, FFS.

As an addendum, you gotta remember too that Booker had an awful reputation his first couple years. Wasn't seen as a good player, was an inefficient chucker, was the poster boy for "good stats on a shit team", et al. It took some more top-lottery picks like Ayton, Bridges, and one of the best vets in the league in CP3, to turn his team (and image) around. But Devin's individual game didn't change all that much, which goes to show you how multi-factored this all is.

I'm not worried at all for Primo and it's far too early to put any kind of glass ceiling over his head, tbh.

You're conflating my point about Booker and then taking that to apply to Primo's entire game.

Clearly Primo is no chunker. Clearly Primo isn't the best player on our bad team.

And the reason I had hopes he could be a Booker is because I had hopes he could get to the rim. I dont know what you and Mr Body are smoking if you don't see the clear inability for Primo to CONSISTENTLY get even one step on his man. And yes he threw one down the other day, IN TRANSITION. And had another on a putback. That is not the same as beating your defender on the perimeter and finishing at the rim playing against a SET DEFENSE.

And again, I know he will get his shot. You're simply misreading what I'm saying. I think he'll potentially be a 18-21 PPG scorer someday, based largely on a mid range and 3 pt game.

But him being a 25PPG scorer like Booker has been since his 3rd year is simply not likely (in fact Booker scored 13.5PPG, then 22PPG in his second) Why? Because he'll more than likely not get enough easy points at the rim or in the paint because he's not a SG or PG as Booker is. He's being played out of position and that's not fair to him, tbh.

The only error I made was comparing him to Booker. But that's only because I saw comparisons to him made on this board in the days following his draft. And what I'm saying is I'm ruling that possibility out before his first year is over.

If course I'll give him time to grow, lol. Can any of you point to where I didn't. But take off the silver and black tinted glasses and let's try to deal in the reality of what his cieling is likely to be. After all, this is a Spurs fan board where such conversations would be had, FFS.

BTW, his game last night was straight TRASH.

[wildbill2u]

I don't see why his role on offense seems to be to go to the corner 3 and wait for someone to notice him. He spends a lot of time standing with no defender near him. Why? His three-point shot isn't falling, so he isn't getting passes from his teammates down there unless they get bottled up and need an outlet. Then he gives it right back to them most of the time. Maybe that's what the coaches want him to do, but it seems pretty useless as a development tool if he won't get more aggressive. He started out the year using his minimal minutes as a chucker, but that phase seems to have been beaten out of him by the coaches. Oh, well, learning process, right? At least he's on the court with the older guys, getting acclimated to the speed and talent he's now up against.

On the other hand I watch his defense pretty closely. He's actually pretty good at help defense, dropping down from the perimeter to help out on drives to the lane against another teammate, but one on one he is having trouble being fast enough --or smart enough--to move laterally to go over the screen. He routinely is picked off and trails his man down the lane. It takes some smarts/experience to know when to move laterally quickly enough to force your way over the top of the screener. And he'd take some punishment trying to do it which he avoids like the plague. Apparently they don't want him giving up and going under the screen so he'll have to learn. In that regard he reminds me of Kyle, but I think he is a bit quicker than Slo Mo?? Anyone disagree with that?

One thing I hate is his occasional passing with one arm without having the hand/arm cocked like a spring to give that extended limp arm pass enough velocity. The idea is great if you can pull it off. Manu was a master at this pass. But it is a turnover steal waiting to happen if he just flicks it out slowly from an already extended arm. A little nuance maybe, but in tight games a good passing ball handler is important. Just sayin'

[exstatic]

Spurstalk trying to save face. If you aren’t concerned about Primo’s development after getting solid minutes his first year you are a sniffer.

Dejounte was fucking horrible at everything except rebounding his first year. He wasn't even good his second year., and he played 1700 minutes, compared to Josh's 800 rookie minutes with 6 games to go.

Keldon was pretty meh last year, his second year.

They were both a year older than Primo when they became Spurs, and Josh is younger than many players in the upcoming draft, but go ahead and write him off. You'll only look stupid later.

[R. DeMurre]

Scouting Primo has its obstacles because of his extreme youth so I don't really put much weight on this season, but I imagine most people would've reacted pretty strongly to a prediction that he'd be under 30% from three and have a TS% of 48% at this point. Derrick White's not known as a shooter and is in the middle of the worst shooting slump of his career, and still has a better TS% than Primo. But last year's youngest player-- Pokusevski-- has seen a big leap in all of his impact stats, and I'd expect the same from Primo next year.

[offset formation]

Dejounte was fucking horrible at everything except rebounding his first year. He wasn't even good his second year., and he played 1700 minutes, compared to Josh's 800 rookie minutes with 6 games to go.

Keldon was pretty meh last year, his second year.

They were both a year older than Primo when they became Spurs, and Josh is younger than many players in the upcoming draft, but go ahead and write him off. You'll only look stupid later.

Sigh...huge difference between "writing him off" and setting his ceiling as fans are eager to do.

He'll be a solid player for is for a decade or more. Sometimes the best player even. But he's simply not athletically gifted enough to be a perennial all-star.

[exstatic]

Sigh...huge difference between "writing him off" and setting his ceiling as fans are eager to do.

He'll be a solid player for is for a decade or more. Sometimes the best player even. But he's simply not athletically gifted enough to be a perennial all-star.

When you pull out the "sniffer" card, it's a huge negative red flag. You are seriously down on that player.

[KingKev]

Dejounte was fucking horrible at everything except rebounding his first year. He wasn't even good his second year., and he played 1700 minutes, compared to Josh's 800 rookie minutes with 6 games to go.

Keldon was pretty meh last year, his second year.

They were both a year older than Primo when they became Spurs, and Josh is younger than many players in the upcoming draft, but go ahead and write him off. You'll only look stupid later.

I’ve never been on the Primo bandwagon but not writing him off. I was firmly on the DJ and Keldon wagon at an early stage and it’s worth mentioning they were late firs rounders. I’ll happily eat my crow if Primo turns into a better player than either DJ or Keldon by year 4. Or maybe i’ll back track or just completely deny I was ever wrong like you do.

[exstatic]

I wasn't on the DJ wagon early. Not even in year 2. You know what I didn't do? Call his supporters sniffers, because I'm not in fucking junior high.

[rjv]

Dejounte was fucking horrible at everything except rebounding his first year. He wasn't even good his second year., and he played 1700 minutes, compared to Josh's 800 rookie minutes with 6 games to go.

Keldon was pretty meh last year, his second year.

They were both a year older than Primo when they became Spurs, and Josh is younger than many players in the upcoming draft, but go ahead and write him off. You'll only look stupid later.

later?

[Atl Spur]

Dejounte was fucking horrible at everything except rebounding his first year. He wasn't even good his second year., and he played 1700 minutes, compared to Josh's 800 rookie minutes with 6 games to go.

Keldon was pretty meh last year, his second year.

They were both a year older than Primo when they became Spurs, and Josh is younger than many players in the upcoming draft, but go ahead and write him off. You'll only look stupid later.

Look stupid later? I worry about that King Kev sometimes……

[KingKev]

I wasn't on the DJ wagon early. Not even in year 2. You know what I didn't do? Call his supporters sniffers, because I'm not in fucking junior high.

1. You still hate on DJ and would have chosen D White as the starting point guard and leader of this team as recent as the fall of 2021
2. No one mistakes you or your bad takes for youth. We all know you are an old man
3. This board had obscene expectations for Primo that were never warranted. If you can’t see that than yes you are a sniffer. The Primo is young argument will only hold for so long when he is getting consistent minutes on a team that lacks talent and go-to scoring.

[KingKev]

Look stupid later? I worry about that King Kev sometimes……

Worry about writing your next fortune cookie.

Tomas Satoransky has entered the chat…

Zollins and Jak are the new twin towers…

[GAustex]

Lotto pick just is not all that
So far

[slick'81]

Lotto pick just is not all that
So far

not surprising. Hes just barely now getting consistent playing time ,and is extremely raw. Next season will obviously tell us alot more

[exstatic]

1. You still hate on DJ and would have chosen D White as the starting point guard and leader of this team as recent as the fall of 2021
2. No one mistakes you or your bad takes for youth. We all know you are an old man
3. This board had obscene expectations for Primo that were never warranted. If you can’t see that than yes you are a sniffer. The Primo is young argument will only hold for so long when he is getting consistent minutes on a team that lacks talent and go-to scoring.

I've never hated DJ. I just recognize that he's really much more of a combo guard than a PG. He can make the rudimentary, easy pass, but what he can't see are players that are about to get open, or odd angles, or something against the grain. A good PG sees that. Hell, Jak sees that. He hit Devin with several nice lead bound passes for baskets and dunks. Primo, with all of 800 minutes experience, makes some passes that DJ just isn't capable of, mainly because he doesn't see the opening.

DJ can be taken out of his comfort zone by a team willing to pressure or even trap him and live with the results, like Memphis did last night. When he's pressured, and gets by it, he reverts to form, not seeing it as a numbers advantage to get a team mate an easy bucket, but a chance to score a mid range or a turnaround step back J. The thing is, those are far less efficient than hitting a team mate for a corner 3 or a cutter for an 80% bucket at the rim.

[Texas_Ranger]

best case scenario he turns up to be a loser like Lonnie Walker. Another shit pick by the Spurs, who clearly have incompetent scouts.

[Atl Spur]

Worry about writing your next fortune cookie.

Tomas Satoransky has entered the chat…

Zollins and Jak are the new twin towers…

Now let’s not get bent out of shape:) Collins and Primo will be just fine.

[GAustex]

One is and was a bust and the other a maybe

[XDT76]

I don't see why his role on offense seems to be to go to the corner 3 and wait for someone to notice him. He spends a lot of time standing with no defender near him. Why? His three-point shot isn't falling, so he isn't getting passes from his teammates down there unless they get bottled up and need an outlet. Then he gives it right back to them most of the time. Maybe that's what the coaches want him to do, but it seems pretty useless as a development tool if he won't get more aggressive. He started out the year using his minimal minutes as a chucker, but that phase seems to have been beaten out of him by the coaches. Oh, well, learning process, right? At least he's on the court with the older guys, getting acclimated to the speed and talent he's now up against.

On the other hand I watch his defense pretty closely. He's actually pretty good at help defense, dropping down from the perimeter to help out on drives to the lane against another teammate, but one on one he is having trouble being fast enough --or smart enough--to move laterally to go over the screen. He routinely is picked off and trails his man down the lane. It takes some smarts/experience to know when to move laterally quickly enough to force your way over the top of the screener. And he'd take some punishment trying to do it which he avoids like the plague. Apparently they don't want him giving up and going under the screen so he'll have to learn. In that regard he reminds me of Kyle, but I think he is a bit quicker than Slo Mo?? Anyone disagree with that?

One thing I hate is his occasional passing with one arm without having the hand/arm cocked like a spring to give that extended limp arm pass enough velocity. The idea is great if you can pull it off. Manu was a master at this pass. But it is a turnover steal waiting to happen if he just flicks it out slowly from an already extended arm. A little nuance maybe, but in tight games a good passing ball handler is important. Just sayin'


Why is it the coaches fault when he cannot hit 3s and attack the rim? He is a turnover waiting to happen whenever he puts the ball on the ground, he would need to improve his handling in the off season and if possible his speed.

[Sugus]

You're conflating my point about Booker and then taking that to apply to Primo's entire game.

Clearly Primo is no chunker. Clearly Primo isn't the best player on our bad team.

And the reason I had hopes he could be a Booker is because I had hopes he could get to the rim. I dont know what you and Mr Body are smoking if you don't see the clear inability for Primo to CONSISTENTLY get even one step on his man. And yes he threw one down the other day, IN TRANSITION. And had another on a putback. That is not the same as beating your defender on the perimeter and finishing at the rim playing against a SET DEFENSE.

And again, I know he will get his shot. You're simply misreading what I'm saying. I think he'll potentially be a 18-21 PPG scorer someday, based largely on a mid range and 3 pt game.

But him being a 25PPG scorer like Booker has been since his 3rd year is simply not likely (in fact Booker scored 13.5PPG, then 22PPG in his second) Why? Because he'll more than likely not get enough easy points at the rim or in the paint because he's not a SG or PG as Booker is. He's being played out of position and that's not fair to him, tbh.

The only error I made was comparing him to Booker. But that's only because I saw comparisons to him made on this board in the days following his draft. And what I'm saying is I'm ruling that possibility out before his first year is over.

If course I'll give him time to grow, lol. Can any of you point to where I didn't. But take off the silver and black tinted glasses and let's try to deal in the reality of what his cieling is likely to be. After all, this is a Spurs fan board where such conversations would be had, FFS.

BTW, his game last night was straight TRASH.

Things we can agree on: Booker isn't a good player comp for Primo, Primo isn't too likely to turn into a Booker-like player.

I disagree with most of the rest, but it's mostly opinion one way or another, so it's a pointless discussion to have until Primo has more games, experience, and reps at the NBA level and we get a clearer picture of what he is and isn't. Again, even Booker wasn't "Booker" coming into the league (and his terrible teams' situations at the start of his career allowed him far more protagonism, shots per game, and reps, than Primo has gotten and probably will get next season, too, even if the Spurs tank out a second season), it's far too early to put a ceiling on Primo's projected career.

I also find hilarious that you think all of Booker's athleticism, scoring at the rim, etc, makes for only a 3ppg difference regarding what Primo could do... If Primo's a 18-21PPG scorer someday, it means he's already found ways to leverage his athleticism and shooting to great lengths, tbh. An odd cutout you make there. More PPG or less is, again, in most cases, a direct result of team composition and talent level (same way Dejounte's PPG saw a noticeable, and predictable, jump this season, with DeRozan et al off the team) beyond simple talent level. I don't see anything in Primo's game so far that marks a "death knell" to his ceiling that he can't possibly get over; he can improve his first step, his handles, he could tap into a post game (especially if he continues to play as a big guard and continues to grow, he could go the Luka route and bully smaller players). Lots of things he could do with proper development.

It's fine if you want to rule him out. I don't. You sound like the people saying James Harden had a 6MOTY ceiling back in his first couple seasons, and exactly for the same motives: lack of an explosive first step and otherwordly acceleration (little did we know it was his deceleration that would matter most), etc etc.

Let the kid play a while before putting ceilings over his head is all I'm saying, bottomline, tbh.

[CGD]

He’s gonna be a great player for us. In my opinion, maybe with the exception of White, he’s been the most promising of the young guys in their respective year 1s.

[Dejounte]

Things we can agree on: Booker isn't a good player comp for Primo, Primo isn't too likely to turn into a Booker-like player.

I disagree with most of the rest, but it's mostly opinion one way or another, so it's a pointless discussion to have until Primo has more games, experience, and reps at the NBA level and we get a clearer picture of what he is and isn't. Again, even Booker wasn't "Booker" coming into the league (and his terrible teams' situations at the start of his career allowed him far more protagonism, shots per game, and reps, than Primo has gotten and probably will get next season, too, even if the Spurs tank out a second season), it's far too early to put a ceiling on Primo's projected career.

I also find hilarious that you think all of Booker's athleticism, scoring at the rim, etc, makes for only a 3ppg difference regarding what Primo could do... If Primo's a 18-21PPG scorer someday, it means he's already found ways to leverage his athleticism and shooting to great lengths, tbh. An odd cutout you make there. More PPG or less is, again, in most cases, a direct result of team composition and talent level (same way Dejounte's PPG saw a noticeable, and predictable, jump this season, with DeRozan et al off the team) beyond simple talent level. I don't see anything in Primo's game so far that marks a "death knell" to his ceiling that he can't possibly get over; he can improve his first step, his handles, he could tap into a post game (especially if he continues to play as a big guard and continues to grow, he could go the Luka route and bully smaller players). Lots of things he could do with proper development.

It's fine if you want to rule him out. I don't. You sound like the people saying James Harden had a 6MOTY ceiling back in his first couple seasons, and exactly for the same motives: lack of an explosive first step and otherwordly acceleration (little did we know it was his deceleration that would matter most), etc etc.

Let the kid play a while before putting ceilings over his head is all I'm saying, bottomline, tbh.

You would think people would have learned not to put ceilings on players too early after what we now have with DJ.

on your point about first step, it is this year (DJ’s fifth season) where DJ looks more explosive than ever. Even Keldon looks more explosive and its his third season.


not related to your post:
also I just don’t understand why folks insist on hating on people for liking players. Let people like what they like.

someone said Primo is as passive as Lonnie
Maybe true.
but Lonnie was not only passive before this season (and earlier in the season)… he was passive AND invisible. Like, it was literally four vs five because he shit the bed in nearly all aspects of basketball if he didnt have the ball and was scoring. Primo at least knows to play within his role and occasionally plays good defense.

[offset formation]

Things we can agree on: Booker isn't a good player comp for Primo, Primo isn't too likely to turn into a Booker-like player.

I disagree with most of the rest, but it's mostly opinion one way or another, so it's a pointless discussion to have until Primo has more games, experience, and reps at the NBA level and we get a clearer picture of what he is and isn't. Again, even Booker wasn't "Booker" coming into the league (and his terrible teams' situations at the start of his career allowed him far more protagonism, shots per game, and reps, than Primo has gotten and probably will get next season, too, even if the Spurs tank out a second season), it's far too early to put a ceiling on Primo's projected career.

I also find hilarious that you think all of Booker's athleticism, scoring at the rim, etc, makes for only a 3ppg difference regarding what Primo could do... If Primo's a 18-21PPG scorer someday, it means he's already found ways to leverage his athleticism and shooting to great lengths, tbh. An odd cutout you make there. More PPG or less is, again, in most cases, a direct result of team composition and talent level (same way Dejounte's PPG saw a noticeable, and predictable, jump this season, with DeRozan et al off the team) beyond simple talent level. I don't see anything in Primo's game so far that marks a "death knell" to his ceiling that he can't possibly get over; he can improve his first step, his handles, he could tap into a post game (especially if he continues to play as a big guard and continues to grow, he could go the Luka route and bully smaller players). Lots of things he could do with proper development.

It's fine if you want to rule him out. I don't. You sound like the people saying James Harden had a 6MOTY ceiling back in his first couple seasons, and exactly for the same motives: lack of an explosive first step and otherwordly acceleration (little did we know it was his deceleration that would matter most), etc etc.

Let the kid play a while before putting ceilings over his head is all I'm saying, bottomline, tbh.

I said 18-21ppg. Booker averages 26ppg now and will likely peak around 30ppg. That's far from 3 pts per game. And the difference between those averages is typically easy points that Primo will never get with any consistency.

And moreover, Booker routinely gets a collapsing defense for an assist or a hockey assist. They play the same way we did once upon a time when we had guards that could get past the first level of the defense. Primo has a better chance of improving his handles to create room laterally to get off a mid range thangetting into the heart of the defense for those kinds of assists. Btw, when Primo is heading downhill or along the baseline, he's **very* turnover prone.

And let me try this one more time. I'm ruling out his high end. Not his potential to be a long term third or even second best scoring option on this team. And maybe even the best scoring option if he can ever knock down 40% plus 3pt%.

One last counterpoint...have you ever seen someone get quicker than they were at 19? What on Earth makes you think hesgonna magically develop a quicker first step than he has now? I mean better handles **might** get him a crossover dribble drive on occasion but any rim runs aren't gonna come when he's 25 because he got quicker. If he starts being an assassin from 3, he'll also gain a bit of an advantage that might help him. But all things being equal, he's very unlikely to beat a defender in 5 yrs on quickness alone that he can't beat today.

As for Harden, he was crossing people up as a rookie in OKC. Then a few years later was traded for a bunch of assets to Houston because everyone and their mother could see he was an excellent finisher. So not sure where you're trying to loop me into some fictional cross comparison to a multi-MVP winner. That was strange Sugus.

[offset formation]

I knew Josh was having a rough year but holy shit, I was just perusing the team's stats and...

Primo's 'PER' IS LOWER THAN EVERY SINGLE PLAYER THAT HAS SUITED UP FOR THE SPURS, EXCEPT TYLER JOHNSON.

And it's not even really close. Almost everyone is about 5 points or more higher, save Weiskamp and Juancho who are only 1.5 and 2.0 pts higher, respectively.

His assist to turnover rate of 1.3 is also an outlier for someone than handles the ball as much as he does.

Lots of improvement needed this off-season.

[RC_Drunkford]

The kid is 19, he‘ll be fine

[emanueldavidginobili]

He’s not going to get taller which is fine but he’s going to get stronger and more explosive that’s a fact. He’s no where close to his physical prime and has yet to grow into his man body.

[BatManu20]

Love that he showed some emotion last night on that dunk he got fouled on. Kid’s gonna be a fine player imo. He definitely needs a lot of developing, but I think that’ll come with time. Just gotta be patient, like you do with 95% of young players.


1510058790968004609

[BatManu20]

Next season will be telling. I expect his numbers to take a significant leap. If they don’t, then I’ll start to worry.

[Sugus]

I said 18-21ppg. Booker averages 26ppg now and will likely peak around 30ppg. That's far from 3 pts per game. And the difference between those averages is typically easy points that Primo will never get with any consistency.

Lol, how can you know with any certainty the points he'll be able to get or not by half a rookie season's worth of playing? This is exactly the point I've been trying to make. You literally just don't know. Yes, there's players who show elite burst coming out of college, but that's not every case, and doesn't have to be Primo's. There's a lot of ways to get points at the rim (silly comparison I know, but Shaq wasn't exactly known for his first step), and to flat out cross Primo off of getting points at the rim, especially given his growing size, is silly, IMO. We'll have to disagree there, honestly.


And moreover, Booker routinely gets a collapsing defense for an assist or a hockey assist. They play the same way we did once upon a time when we had guards that could get past the first level of the defense. Primo has a better chance of improving his handles to create room laterally to get off a mid range thangetting into the heart of the defense for those kinds of assists. Btw, when Primo is heading downhill or along the baseline, he's **very* turnover prone.

A rookie ballhandler is very turnover-prone, you say?! Color me shocked! Now you're gonna tell me his shooting isn't all there yet...!

Why do you think Primo's improving handle could only buy him space "laterally", and not towards the rim? Have you never seen a player get by the defense with nifty dribbling moves? Isolation, anyone? Lmao. Especially with the lax handling rules in today's game, it's easier than ever to leverage good-to-great dribbling skills into leaving defenders in the dust (or baiting them into fouls, for example, something that would also earn Primo those "easy points" that you see so impossible). Again, we don't know if Primo will develop these handles, another reason it's simply stupid to rule him out of that yet.


And let me try this one more time. I'm ruling out his high end. Not his potential to be a long term third or even second best scoring option on this team. And maybe even the best scoring option if he can ever knock down 40% plus 3pt%.

So wait, you rule out his "high end" (whatever on Earth that means), yet still think he could top out as a best scoring option on a team with an improved shot? What's the "high end" then? MJ-like player? :lol. It looks to me like you're covering all your bases so as to avoid any "gotcha!" moment or whatever. Again -- IF Primo can develop into a top scoring option, it'll necessarily have meant that he'll have found ways to leverage both his athleticism, and his shooting, into positive and productive scoring, which is contrarian to what you're saying. A player who has the ceiling of a "top scoring option" simply has no ceiling. Scoring is basketball (boy oh boy am I not waiting for the "sCoRiNg iSnT eVeRyThInG" retort...).


One last counterpoint...have you ever seen someone get quicker than they were at 19? What on Earth makes you think hesgonna magically develop a quicker first step than he has now? I mean better handles **might** get him a crossover dribble drive on occasion but any rim runs aren't gonna come when he's 25 because he got quicker. If he starts being an assassin from 3, he'll also gain a bit of an advantage that might help him. But all things being equal, he's very unlikely to beat a defender in 5 yrs on quickness alone that he can't beat today.

...Yes? Lmao. Yes. Most players do, actually, lmfao. You're a kid at 19, both mentally and body-wise. While you're probably not going to get lighter as you age, the average athlete will improve his muscle mass, lower his fat %, improve his coordination, skill, and fluidity, as they age and approach their prime, all of which lend to increased speed. To name just one easy example, do you think Usain Bolt topped out his speed at 19? Or did he continue to train for years on end, and broke his own records time and time again, well into his 20s? What a stupid argument to make.

[I'm using Bolt because I like him and know his career, and in case you don't know, he broke his own speed records multiple times in consecutive, 4-years-apart Olympic games, directly refuting your argument, and I'm using a speeder because they actually measure how fast they go, as opposed to basketball's very relative and non-measured "speed" marks; not because there's no cases in basketball, it just doesn't get any clearer than Bolt.]


As for Harden, he was crossing people up as a rookie in OKC. Then a few years later was traded for a bunch of assets to Houston because everyone and their mother could see he was an excellent finisher. So not sure where you're trying to loop me into some fictional cross comparison to a multi-MVP winner. That was strange Sugus.

So players who don't cross up others as rookies, can never develop that skill? Interesting. I used Harden not because his skill wasn't obvious, but because he's a great example of a player who was widely considered to have a ceiling, and then went on to mature and beat literally everyone's expectations of what his "ceiling" was. Yes, he was great while on OKC and net them a good haul, but nobody thought he'd be much more than a good-to-great starter player when given a great role; nobody predicted he'd be a MVP-level, dominant, generational scoring machine, and again, a big part of that was due to his "athletic deficiencies". He's a great case of why you don't have to be the fastest, highest-jumping, best athlete on the court to succeed. He scored far more points than Booker ever will, with half the "first step" speed than Booker has. And that's just one example.

The point stands... Putting ceilings on rookies is simply stupid. As my guy Dejounte succintly points out, you can look no further than our very own Dejounte for another great example of this. I'm sure you were calling him an All-Star level player during his rookie year, right? ...Right? :rolleyes

[exstatic]

Next season will be telling. I expect his numbers to take a significant leap. If they don’t, then I’ll start to worry.

DJ was straight trash his second year. Keldon took a step back from his bubble numbers his second year. Devin is OK, but hasn’t lit the world on fire in year 2.

Year 3 is where it normally falls into place.

[SAGirl]

I am giving him a pass for whatever way he plays this season. He’s very young and Pop would have had him on Gleague all year and he would have had to earn his minutes next season like many others b4 him, if the Spurs were a better team.

However, I did expect him to shoot better. That’s been a surprising disappointment bc it was the one thing he had shown potential to do. He had a sniper’s/shooter’s mentality.

It changes a lot my hopes for him if he doesn’t develop as a shooter. He’s too young to say that’s irredimible and something may be going one like him getting used to faster close outs and having to adjust … maybe even the speed of his shot or something I know nothing about.

I do hope his good shooting % make a come back next season.

[D-Robinson 50 fan]

he has to work on his handles. I can see him having a Harden like game, using dribble moves and strength more so than speed

i think this above is a good observation. He should study James Harden because he looks like if he hits the gym even more he will get pretty big. So trying to use his strength and smarts will be the best shot to become a really good driver.

[tonight...you]

I am giving him a pass for whatever way he plays this season. He’s very young and Pop would have had him on Gleague all year and he would have had to earn his minutes next season like many others b4 him, if the Spurs were a better team.

However, I did expect him to shoot better. That’s been a surprising disappointment bc it was the one thing he had shown potential to do. He had a sniper’s/shooter’s mentality.

It changes a lot my hopes for him if he doesn’t develop as a shooter. He’s too young to say that’s irredimible and something may be going one like him getting used to faster close outs and having to adjust … maybe even the speed of his shot or something I know nothing about.

I do hope his good shooting % make a come back next season.
I believe one reason for the drop in shooting was that he came in with a form that was conducive to injury.
While he was making shots, he would come down on one leg, not both. He even hurt himself early in the year because of that.
So the rest of the year he's been changing his form to land on both feet so he has been adjusting in-season, thus affecting his percentage.

Hopefully with a full off-season working on that he comes in next year more comfortable.

[exstatic]

I am giving him a pass for whatever way he plays this season. He’s very young and Pop would have had him on Gleague all year and he would have had to earn his minutes next season like many others b4 him, if the Spurs were a better team.

However, I did expect him to shoot better. That’s been a surprising disappointment bc it was the one thing he had shown potential to do. He had a sniper’s/shooter’s mentality.

It changes a lot my hopes for him if he doesn’t develop as a shooter. He’s too young to say that’s irredimible and something may be going one like him getting used to faster close outs and having to adjust … maybe even the speed of his shot or something I know nothing about.

I do hope his good shooting % make a come back next season.

He had a terrible launch/landing on his jump shot to the point where he injured himself on one of his one footed landings. Tearing that down and rebuilding it isn’t easily done during the season. I was encouraged that he hit two treys last night.

[wildbill2u]

Ya gotta wonder why he keeps passing up wide-open threes (a few last night) if his primary claim to fame as a high draftee was supposed to be his shooting. Granted his form is gonna be a work in progress, but it really shouldn't keep him from trying in such a big blowout. He's not worth being on the floor if he won't give it a shot. :lol

[wildbill2u]

I am giving him a pass for whatever way he plays this season. He’s very young and Pop would have had him on Gleague all year and he would have had to earn his minutes next season like many others b4 him, if the Spurs were a better team.

However, I did expect him to shoot better. That’s been a surprising disappointment bc it was the one thing he had shown potential to do. He had a sniper’s/shooter’s mentality.

It changes a lot my hopes for him if he doesn’t develop as a shooter. He’s too young to say that’s irredimible and something may be going one like him getting used to faster close outs and having to adjust … maybe even the speed of his shot or something I know nothing about.

I do hope his good shooting % make a come back next season.

It's great to see the return of SA Girl to SpursTalk. Methinks she has found another player to root for. Kyle 2.0????

[exstatic]

Ya gotta wonder why he keeps passing up wide-open threes (a few last night) if his primary claim to fame as a high draftee was supposed to be his shooting. Granted his form is gonna be a work in progress, but it really shouldn't keep him from trying in such a big blowout. He's not worth being on the floor if he won't give it a shot. :lol

He took 6 in 31 minutes. How many do you want him to take?

[SAGirl]

It's great to see the return of SA Girl to SpursTalk. Methinks she has found another player to root for. Kyle 2.0????
Nah I’ve been a casual for most of the Derozan years. The team is starting to get interesting is all. I truly just think this dude is too young to criticize too harshly at this point. I should clarify I don’t have star expectations for him like others. I’ve actually noticed a few things I like about him but they are overshadowed at this point by the disappointment created by a bad shooting season. We’ll see. Has to work on that shot this summer.

[dbestpro]

Primo was a reach. So far he has not done anything to disprove that. All you can do is wait and hope.

[offset formation]

Lol, how can you know with any certainty the points he'll be able to get or not by half a rookie season's worth of playing? This is exactly the point I've been trying to make. You literally just don't know. Yes, there's players who show elite burst coming out of college, but that's not every case, and doesn't have to be Primo's. There's a lot of ways to get points at the rim (silly comparison I know, but Shaq wasn't exactly known for his first step), and to flat out cross Primo off of getting points at the rim, especially given his growing size, is silly, IMO. We'll have to disagree there, honestly.



A rookie ballhandler is very turnover-prone, you say?! Color me shocked! Now you're gonna tell me his shooting isn't all there yet...!

Why do you think Primo's improving handle could only buy him space "laterally", and not towards the rim? Have you never seen a player get by the defense with nifty dribbling moves? Isolation, anyone? Lmao. Especially with the lax handling rules in today's game, it's easier than ever to leverage good-to-great dribbling skills into leaving defenders in the dust (or baiting them into fouls, for example, something that would also earn Primo those "easy points" that you see so impossible). Again, we don't know if Primo will develop these handles, another reason it's simply stupid to rule him out of that yet.



So wait, you rule out his "high end" (whatever on Earth that means), yet still think he could top out as a best scoring option on a team with an improved shot? What's the "high end" then? MJ-like player? :lol. It looks to me like you're covering all your bases so as to avoid any "gotcha!" moment or whatever. Again -- IF Primo can develop into a top scoring option, it'll necessarily have meant that he'll have found ways to leverage both his athleticism, and his shooting, into positive and productive scoring, which is contrarian to what you're saying. A player who has the ceiling of a "top scoring option" simply has no ceiling. Scoring is basketball (boy oh boy am I not waiting for the "sCoRiNg iSnT eVeRyThInG" retort...).



...Yes? Lmao. Yes. Most players do, actually, lmfao. You're a kid at 19, both mentally and body-wise. While you're probably not going to get lighter as you age, the average athlete will improve his muscle mass, lower his fat %, improve his coordination, skill, and fluidity, as they age and approach their prime, all of which lend to increased speed. To name just one easy example, do you think Usain Bolt topped out his speed at 19? Or did he continue to train for years on end, and broke his own records time and time again, well into his 20s? What a stupid argument to make.

[I'm using Bolt because I like him and know his career, and in case you don't know, he broke his own speed records multiple times in consecutive, 4-years-apart Olympic games, directly refuting your argument, and I'm using a speeder because they actually measure how fast they go, as opposed to basketball's very relative and non-measured "speed" marks; not because there's no cases in basketball, it just doesn't get any clearer than Bolt.]



So players who don't cross up others as rookies, can never develop that skill? Interesting. I used Harden not because his skill wasn't obvious, but because he's a great example of a player who was widely considered to have a ceiling, and then went on to mature and beat literally everyone's expectations of what his "ceiling" was. Yes, he was great while on OKC and net them a good haul, but nobody thought he'd be much more than a good-to-great starter player when given a great role; nobody predicted he'd be a MVP-level, dominant, generational scoring machine, and again, a big part of that was due to his "athletic deficiencies". He's a great case of why you don't have to be the fastest, highest-jumping, best athlete on the court to succeed. He scored far more points than Booker ever will, with half the "first step" speed than Booker has. And that's just one example.

The point stands... Putting ceilings on rookies is simply stupid. As my guy Dejounte succintly points out, you can look no further than our very own Dejounte for another great example of this. I'm sure you were calling him an All-Star level player during his rookie year, right? ...Right? :rolleyes

To start with your point on DJ, I was one of the folks on this board that believed in his upside, actually. Most people dogged him about his shot and handles pretty relentlessly. I didn't. Why? Because those are things a young player can improve upon. Doesn't always happen, but a guy like DJ has a work ethic that makes it more likely than not. We have a coaching staff known for developing players, ESPECIALLY shooting. So I had little doubt he'd find a shot. And most likely his handle. And I loved his burst which was evident from the get-go. Put that all together, and you'll find I was one of the few people on this board not wanting to trade DJ... at any point.

I flatly reject your point on Harden. By the time of his trade to Houston, it was known Houston was getting a potential superstar. We'll have to agree to disagree on this. And his handles are in fact generational which is more than you can ask of Primo just so he can get 8 easy points per game.

As for 'Harden scoring more than Booker ever will,' Booker just became the 7th youngest player to reach 10,000 pts. He dropped 70 in his 2nd year. And 60 two other times, already. And he has averaged at least 22 or more since his second season.

Were I you, I'd slow down your prediction on that.

And one final point, I have to chuckle because you pulled out the world's fastest man from anentirely different sport, measured in hundredths of seconds, to make a point about Primo gaining quickness?? lmao. Dude was already elite with fast twitch muscle. And he trained everyday to enhance that by 0.08 hundredths. Merely adding muscle and weight doesn't make you quick. That's normally something you're born with. Josh might improve in that area very modestly over the next several years, but he'll never be a guy that gets confused with having quickness.

So yes, I'm ruling out his high end. Not sure why that's confusing. And no that doesn't mean he couldn't be a sub All-star level player. Back to DJ for a comparison. DJ basically lost 2 years (1 on the court and 1 bounce back year following the torn ACL). And he's not an efficient 3 pt shooter. But he's averaging 21 ppg, but also 8.5 boards and 9.5 assists per game. And it took like several injuries plus campaigning from several of his fellow NBA veterans to get him selected by the commissioner as a replacement.

I don't see Josh ever routinely putting up triple dubs for us. I don't see him ever being someone that can get easy points routinely at the rim. So that means he's gonna have to start raining 3s at a very proficient level, like Steph. Is that possible? Sure. Likely? Far from it. So I think his top end is around 21 ppg. Certainly enough to maybe be the top scorer in any given year, but unless paired with near double digit rebound and assist numbers, not all star level.

That's me limiting his high end. Using logic.

In order to reach an All-Star around here, he'll need to get easy points. And average damn near 25 ppg. Maybe more.

And he simply doesn't appear to have displayed any of the quickness one would need to achieve that. Sorry if my opinion about our rookie upsets you.

Disagree all you want. But try to show me an example in the NBA instead of the world of track and field to show me hope for him developing that skill.

[exstatic]

To start with your point on DJ, I was one of the folks on this board that believed in his upside, actually. Most people dogged him about his shot and handles pretty relentlessly. I didn't. Why? Because those are things a young player can improve upon. Doesn't always happen, but a guy like DJ has a work ethic that makes it more likely than not. We have a coaching staff known for developing players, ESPECIALLY shooting. So I had little doubt he'd find a shot. And most likely his handle. And I loved his burst which was evident from the get-go. Put that all together, and you'll find I was one of the few people on this board not wanting to trade DJ... at any point.

I flatly reject your point on Harden. By the time of his trade to Houston, it was known Houston was getting a potential superstar. We'll have to agree to disagree on this. And his handles are in fact generational which is more than you can ask of Primo just so he can get 8 easy points per game.

As for 'Harden scoring more than Booker ever will,' Booker just became the 7th youngest player to reach 10,000 pts. He dropped 70 in his 2nd year. And 60 two other times, already. And he has averaged at least 22 or more since his second season.

Were I you, I'd slow down your prediction on that.

And one final point, I have to chuckle because you pulled out the world's fastest man from anentirely different sport, measured in hundredths of seconds, to make a point about Primo gaining quickness?? lmao. Dude was already elite with fast twitch muscle. And he trained everyday to enhance that by 0.08 hundredths. Merely adding muscle and weight doesn't make you quick. That's normally something you're born with. Josh might improve in that area very modestly over the next several years, but he'll never be a guy that gets confused with having quickness.

So yes, I'm ruling out his high end. Not sure why that's confusing. And no that doesn't mean he couldn't be a sub All-star level player. Back to DJ for a comparison. DJ basically lost 2 years (1 on the court and 1 bounce back year following the torn ACL). And he's not an efficient 3 pt shooter. But he's averaging 21 ppg, but also 8.5 boards and 9.5 assists per game. And it took like several injuries plus campaigning from several of his fellow NBA veterans to get him selected by the commissioner as a replacement.

I don't see Josh ever routinely putting up triple dubs for us. I don't see him ever being someone that can get easy points routinely at the rim. So that means he's gonna have to start raining 3s at a very proficient level, like Steph. Is that possible? Sure. Likely? Far from it. So I think his top end is around 21 ppg. Certainly enough to maybe be the top scorer in any given year, but unless paired with near double digit rebound and assist numbers, not all star level.

That's me limiting his high end. Using logic.

In order to reach an All-Star around here, he'll need to get easy points. And average damn near 25 ppg. Maybe more.

And he simply doesn't appear to have displayed any of the quickness one would need to achieve that. Sorry if my opinion about our rookie upsets you.

Disagree all you want. But try to show me an example in the NBA instead of the world of track and field to show me hope for him developing that skill.

Trip doubs are highly overrated. The king of TDs is one of the least efficient players in the league, and has been exposed this year with lower usage.

Don’t know if you’ve noticed, but DJs TDs have tailed off as the Spurs started winning more. Not a coincidence.

[offset formation]

Trip doubs are highly overrated. The king of TDs is one of the least efficient players in the league, and has been exposed this year with lower usage.

Don’t know if you’ve noticed, but DJs TDs have tailed off as the Spurs started winning more. Not a coincidence.

I have noticed. But let's not be naive here. Were it not for those triple doubles, it's even less likely DJ is selected to be an All-Star. His scoring alone was not sufficient, Even with his league leading steals to get him selected after the first round of injuries by the Allstar coaches. He had to get picked by the commish after even more injuries and lobbying by several former and current players. And he deserved it, btw.

[R. DeMurre]

Westbrook's career has kind of shown how the novelty of triple doubles without context has worn off. The first time he average a triple double for a season, he won MVP. The second time he did it, he finished 5th in MVP voting. The third time he finished 10th and the fourth time 11th. Another interesting fact: every year Westbrook averaged a TD, his team lost in the first round of the playoffs, with a combined 4 year playoff record of 5-16. Big inefficient numbers with sky high usage rate plus taking off a half dozen defensive trips every game to argue with refs doesn't make for a championship winning formula.

[talkspurs]

DJ was straight trash his second year. Keldon took a step back from his bubble numbers his second year. Devin is OK, but hasn’t lit the world on fire in year 2.

Year 3 is where it normally falls into place.

DJ was on the all defensive team his second year. I consider that far from trash. He has improved a lot since then but you do undervalue what DJ has done.
KJ did take a step back from the bubble but I dont think any player is going to shoot 60% from 3 for a season in the near future. very few even shoot 60% from 2 each season. I think he did not play that bad for a second year player.

I think we should start to see some type of improvement from Josh next year. year 3 may be where most of them start to break out but that I would say is more because the spurs dont play them much the first year.

[MultiTroll]

Westbrook's career has kind of shown how the novelty of triple doubles without context has worn off. The first time he average a triple double for a season, he won MVP. The second time he did it, he finished 5th in MVP voting. The third time he finished 10th and the fourth time 11th. Another interesting fact: every year Westbrook averaged a TD, his team lost in the first round of the playoffs, with a combined 4 year playoff record of 5-16. Big inefficient numbers with sky high usage rate plus taking off a half dozen defensive trips every game to argue with refs doesn't make for a championship winning formula.
This.
DJs TDs OTOH are completely different from Westchucks.
DJ does not fight with teamates over a rebound nor pout and scowl at them if they get a rebound he could have padded.

DJs shots are often because no one else wants to shoot. Westchucks OTOH :lol

Which is not to say Westchuck has not had some very impressive assists. I like watching him when he is in assist mode vs Kobme Chucker.

[RC_Drunkford]

This.
DJs TDs OTOH are completely different from Westchucks.
DJ does not fight with teamates over a rebound nor pout and scowl at them if they get a rebound he could have padded.

DJs shots are often because no one else wants to shoot. Westchucks OTOH :lol

Which is not to say Westchuck has not had some very impressive assists. I like watching him when he is in assist mode vs Kobme Chucker.

this tbh. Steven Adams was deliberately missing free throws so Westbrick could get his 10th rebound. Westbrick was passing the ball out to his team mates then yelled at them why they didn't take the shot so he can get an assist. The stat padding was in full effect.

[lefty20]

this tbh. Steven Adams was deliberately missing free throws so Westbrick could get his 10th rebound. Westbrick was passing the ball out to his team mates then yelled at them why they didn't take the shot so he can get an assist. The stat padding was in full effect.

Not to mention he'd keep playing late into 4th quarters of blowout wins & losses to secure the the td.

[The Truth #6]

Westbrook would suck even if he wasn’t getting triple doubles, arguably. Not playing defense. Putting zero effort into playing offball. Horrible shot selection. None of that is helpful to winning.

[RC_Drunkford]

People should go back to Game 6 in 2014. On the last posession he chucks a contested 3 and hits the top of the backboard. He was always that dumb of a player. Probably the dumbest in NBA history