The Penthouse Of Josh Primo

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Westbrook would suck even if he wasn’t getting triple doubles, arguably. Not playing defense. Putting zero effort into playing offball. Horrible shot selection. None of that is helpful to winning.

His defense is embarrassing. I've seen him quit on the defensive side for years.

[GAustex]

People should go back to Game 6 in 2014. On the last posession he chucks a contested 3 and hits the top of the backboard. He was always that dumb of a player. Probably the dumbest in NBA history
I think it hit the shot clock too

[KobesAchilles]

Westbrook would suck even if he wasn’t getting triple doubles, arguably. Not playing defense. Putting zero effort into playing offball. Horrible shot selection. None of that is helpful to winning.
I remember that year he was dead last for Point Guards on contesting shots. The dude was an embarrassment that year. I’m starting to feel that scoring is becoming the new triple double. Like guys are chucking up 12 threes a game and scoring 26 points and it’s like yeah but he shot 3-12 from three and plays zero defense. There’s almost zero two-way players in todays game. Giannis, Embiid, and ?

Thats why I want DJ to pattern his game off of Gary Peyton

[KingKev]

Is Tre Jones better than Primo?

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I remember that year he was dead last for Point Guards on contesting shots. The dude was an embarrassment that year. I’m starting to feel that scoring is becoming the new triple double. Like guys are chucking up 12 threes a game and scoring 26 points and it’s like yeah but he shot 3-12 from three and plays zero defense. There’s almost zero two-way players in todays game. Giannis, Embiid, and ?

Thats why I want DJ to pattern his game off of Gary Peyton

Jimmy Butler.

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Is Tre Jones better than Primo?

The real concern is having to ask if a second round pick from the season before a lottery pick, with basically an entire season of development under his belt. Not like we're on game 7 or something.

[lefty20]

Is Tre Jones better than Primo?

Right now? Yes.

Primo still has the higher ceiling, imo.

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His court vision and decision making is flat out atrocious right now. Re-watching the game now and he had 3 turnovers in the first like 4 min. He drives into traffic then expects to dump it off to someone else with hands everywhere. And the others were simply dumb, forced passes. Sooo much room for improvement from this kid.

[XDT76]

His court vision and decision making is flat out atrocious right now. Re-watching the game now and he had 3 turnovers in the first like 4 min. He drives into traffic then expects to dump it off to someone else with hands everywhere. And the others were simply dumb, forced passes. Sooo much room for improvement from this kid.


This and ball security is the biggest concern I have with him, but some of the guys here attribute to his youth and are confident that he will correct it eventually.

[exstatic]

People should go back to Game 6 in 2014. On the last posession he chucks a contested 3 and hits the top of the backboard. He was always that dumb of a player. Probably the dumbest in NBA history

RW was one of the most dangerous players in the open court. He had the ball on the right side, and CHOSE to dribble into traffic on the left side and put up that contested 3. He could have had a near automatic layup, dunk, or and1 on the right side, with time left on the clock.

[emanueldavidginobili]

1513005984259653634
It's only a matter of time until he is comfortable with his new landing and starts hitting three's consistently. His landing looks definitely different since summer league.

[KingKev]

^ great now start doing it when it matters.

[GAustex]

Cut down on the turnovers
Kid is gonna be OK
Wonder if he can grow into a PF

[tonight...you]

1513005984259653634
It's only a matter of time until he is comfortable with his new landing and starts hitting three's consistently. His landing looks definitely different since summer league.
His instinctive feel for the game is something you can't teach.
He just needs to tighten everything up and his ceiling is way up there.

[tonight...you]

^ great now start doing it when it matters.
Your patience overwhelms.

[emanueldavidginobili]

Cut down on the turnovers
Kid is gonna be OK
Wonder if he can grow into a PF
No way on the PF spot, why would you even want him at that position? He will be legit at the 1, 2, and 3 position. We don't need another undersized player playing the PF.

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No way on the PF spot, why would you even want him at that position? He will be legit at the 1, 2, and 3 position. We don't need another undersized player playing the PF.

He'll not be legit at the 1. His passing is extremely turnover prone and he can't break down a defense on dribble drives.

He's a 2 or a 3. Most likely a really good 3 and D guy.

[GAustex]

No way on the PF spot, why would you even want him at that position? He will be legit at the 1, 2, and 3 position. We don't need another undersized player playing the PF.

The word “grow” I guess should have been bolded

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

50 games played in the NBA, almost 1000 minutes, plus 20 something g-league games - he's played a full season's worth of games and minutes and more than most of us would have thought early on.

He's been inefficient, which is to be expected for such a young player, especially after tweaking his shot mechanics, but overall there's no question he looks like he belongs. His defense has been a pleasant surprise. By the end of the season he was the best perimeter defended on the team. Not worried about his passing and turnovers, he's learning and adapting to playing against elite athletes.

Overall I think his season has been a success and hopefully he keeps working and improving. It's notable they tried playing him on the ball earlier in the season and way more off the ball as his role and minutes increased, it'll be interesting how they plan to use him next season.

[Atl Spur]

Giving him the most exposure possible is/was great for his development:) Hopefully a lot of growth takes place this year…..we need bigs in the draft ( no wings )

[KingKev]

Giving him the most exposure possible is/was great for his development:) Hopefully a lot of growth takes place this year…..we need bigs in the draft ( no wings )

We actually also need wings.

[The Truth #6]

A question for the Primo growth plate watchers. When we drafted him he was 6'4" without shoes. Is that right? And now people think he has grown to...?

[exstatic]

A question for the Primo growth plate watchers. When we drafted him he was 6'4" without shoes. Is that right? And now people think he has grown to...?

6'9"

Sincerely,

The Church of the Open Growth plates.

[John B]

1513005984259653634
It's only a matter of time until he is comfortable with his new landing and starts hitting three's consistently. His landing looks definitely different since summer league.

Once this kid packs in 20lbs of muscle, he is going to be a beast. Already his confidence level is high, never gets rattled and lives for the moment. I don’t worry about those TO’s. The way I see it, Pop is making him experiment out there, just feeling the game. Vassell is my starting 2. I still prefer KD to slide at 3, and get a proper size 4. Primo stays at backup 3 for now. Lonnie I’d be happy to sign him back at backup 2.

Tre, J-Rich, Zollins, Landale, KBD, even Weiskamp. I mean I like our roster. It would be hard decision what to do with our 4 picks.

[KingKev]

Oh man he will probably settle at 6’6 when all said and done. He could be 6’10 for all I care. Meaningless if he is just another role player. Let’s hope he turns into a solid player versus “open growth plates”

[The Truth #6]

The open growth plates theory on one hand is an example of how combine measurements, and in this case, theoretical future measurements, can get ridiculous in evaluating a player. Having said that, yeah, it would probably help him to be taller and larger due to his lack of burst.

[GAustex]

PFs who can shoot and defend and run and jump and rebound and defend the rim
If they can’t shoot then they are monsters
We need 2 PFs

[Atl Spur]

Primo will be ok.

[exstatic]

Once this kid packs in 20lbs of muscle, he is going to be a beast. Already his confidence level is high, never gets rattled and lives for the moment. I don’t worry about those TO’s. The way I see it, Pop is making him experiment out there, just feeling the game. Vassell is my starting 2. I still prefer KD to slide at 3, and get a proper size 4. Primo stays at backup 3 for now. Lonnie I’d be happy to sign him back at backup 2.

Tre, J-Rich, Zollins, Landale, KBD, even Weiskamp. I mean I like our roster. It would be hard decision what to do with our 4 picks.

The back end of our roster is ass. Landale can't finish or defend, KBD can't shoot, and Wieskamp really showed nothing at the NBA level. I don't know what Langford's deal is, if he's really got hammy issues or if they're holding him out to give Lonnie a shot to show out in his FA year. Lonnie is occasional breathtaking drives, mixed with endless minutes of nothing, and sub par 3 point shooting. If we can come up with halfway decent replacements, I wouldn't miss any of them.

[GAustex]

Our LOTTO pick has been eh

[GAustex]

Leaving the centers alone
Dougie McNoD KBD and Wieskamp and that other dudes are chaff

[exstatic]

Leaving the centers alone
Dougie McNoD KBD and Wieskamp and that other dudes are chaff

Landale is ass, too. The only current bench guys I like are Zollins, Trey and JRich. Cacok is an elite rebounder, can score a bit in the paint, and doesn't seem to get lit up on D, but I don't really have a read since he doesn't play much. The two new 2ways haven't even played for us.

[Ariel]

Tre, J-Rich, Zollins, Landale, KBD, even Weiskamp. I mean I like our roster. It would be hard decision what to do with our 4 picks.
If you can't find a player who projects as better than Landale, Wieskamp or Keita Bates-Diop picking 10-25, then trade the picks away. And fire your scouting staff while we're at it.

[GAustex]

Landale is ass, too. The only current bench guys I like are Zollins, Trey and JRich. Cacok is an elite rebounder, can score a bit in the paint, and doesn't seem to get lit up on D, but I don't really have a read since he doesn't play much. The two new 2ways haven't even played for us.
I’m not a fan of either backup center but as a three headed not so scary monster I hold my nose and go OK. Do not overpay for any of the centers!

[exstatic]

I’m not a fan of either backup center but as a three headed not so scary monster I hold my nose and go OK. Do not overpay for any of the centers!

Zollins is WAY better than Landale. He's a slightly better shooter, and a FAR better rim protector. If you didn't watch the Dallas game, he roofed Chriss at the rim, and intercepted a lob.

[GAustex]

Well I guess I am not agree with thinking Zollins is all that. I am no salary expert but at his rate of pay he is OK.
The Aussie I think has Oberto qualities and would be better served by being on an intelligent team. He does not do well on D.

Zollins does get credit for sticking his nose in there. He gets abused a lot though.

I think the centers on this team are what they are-nothing special. Jakob has improved.

[TD 21]

A question for the Primo growth plate watchers. When we drafted him he was 6'4" without shoes. Is that right? And now people think he has grown to...?

Obviously can't say with certainty a precise height, but he's clearly much closer to Wieskamp (6'5.75'') than he is Walker IV (6'3.75'') and he also appears closer to them in terms of weight (205 as opposed to 190).

[talkspurs]

I see a lot of yall listing lineups but not putting Vassel in there. Are yall thinking he is gone. I see lonnie gone KJ at the 3 probably vassel at the 2 and maybe primo backing up the 2/3. bjones backing up murray. We would draft a 4 or sign one during FA. I think us playing bigger at the end of the years show they are looking at going back to KJ at the 3 and looking for more big help.

[CGD]

I see a lot of yall listing lineups but not putting Vassel in there. Are yall thinking he is gone. I see lonnie gone KJ at the 3 probably vassel at the 2 and maybe primo backing up the 2/3. bjones backing up murray. We would draft a 4 or sign one during FA. I think us playing bigger at the end of the years show they are looking at going back to KJ at the 3 and looking for more big help.

Hell no, Vassel is the going to be awesome for us hopefully for a while. He’s the next Bridges-type IMO.

Primo will make the jump in 2 years. I think he’ll be special.

I love Keldon, but the reality is he needs to be in the supersub role.

Lonnie’s time with the squad seems to have run it’s course, though, I can see the team giving him a contract to “preserve the asset” for trade purposes later.

[exstatic]

Hell no, Vassel is the going to be awesome for us hopefully for a while. He’s the next Bridges-type IMO.

Primo will make the jump in 2 years. I think he’ll be special.

I love Keldon, but the reality is he needs to be in the supersub role.

Lonnie’s time with the squad seems to have run it’s course, though, I can see the team giving him a contract to “preserve the asset” for trade purposes later.

Keldon is literally the only player who shoots the three at a good clip, AND finishes throughout contact at the rim..

[GAustex]

Keldon is a keeper just for his roughhouse style. I am amazed his 3 ball stayed at a high percentage
Got to get him at the three and get 2 real PFs

[CGD]

Keldon is literally the only player who shoots the three at a good clip, AND finishes throughout contact at the rim..

That’s great for the starting 4 on this 10th seed squad, but the reality is spurs need a better solution at that position long term to make the jump they want.

Keldon would be the perfect 6th man on that future team.

[talkspurs]

Hell no, Vassel is the going to be awesome for us hopefully for a while. He’s the next Bridges-type IMO.

Primo will make the jump in 2 years. I think he’ll be special.

I love Keldon, but the reality is he needs to be in the supersub role.

Lonnie’s time with the squad seems to have run it’s course, though, I can see the team giving him a contract to “preserve the asset” for trade purposes later.

Why should Keldon be the sub. He is one of the better players on the team. If he plays SF next year he will be even better. Part of the issue is he gets tired playing against the bigger players all the time. He can do it for a little bit but it wears on him throughout the year. That is why he has started playing better since he has moved more to SF. His defense is even better then it was earlier.

Why do people want to keep lonnie around. you dont keep an "asset" (not really an asset if noone wants him) that no other team is willing to give things for to get. We would either have to play him to hopefully get his value up or sit him on the bench which does not increase his value. If we play him and we cant trade him then it is wasting time for other players. I also dont think we would be able to trade him since no one would give us anything this year. Keeping lonnie also means one less roster spot for one of our picks.

[ismael-robert]

I wasn't on the DJ wagon early. Not even in year 2. You know what I didn't do? Call his supporters sniffers, because I'm not in fucking junior high.

Sniffer triggered

[exstatic]

Sniffer triggered

Idiot triggered.

[mystargtr34]

I am ok with the team at four of the five spots for now tbh (1,2,3 and 5), the 4-spot needs to be improved desperately and that will have positive flow-on effects such as moving Keldon to his natural SF position, and moving McDermott to the bench as the backup 4 which suits his skillset. Making these two lineup changes alone improves the starting lineups rebounding and defense, two areas its severely lacking.

Improving the 4-spot has to be the main goal of the draft surely. The Spurs have a couple of options here. In the order of likeliness;

Option 1: Keep the projected 9th pick and take Sochan or Tari Eason as your future 4.

Option 2: Trade up to the 4-5 range in the draft and pick Keegan Murray. This will cost you assets such as an established player and/or the Spurs other two 1sts projected at 20 and 24.

Option 3: Keep the projected 9th pick and take the best player available which may be Mathurin, Sharpe or Griffin (depends who the Spurs like) and continue to play undersized at the 4 spot next season.

Option 4: Pick Jalen Duren and trade Jakob for a PF. I think OG Anunoby is gettable as they have Siakam and Barnes at the 3/4 spots. Not saying the Raptors take that deal straight up but I think they're definitely looking for a C.

[RC_Drunkford]

Between McDermott, Langford, Walker, KBD, Wieskamp and Cacok at least 4 of them should be gone next season. Keldon will be the 2nd option and the Spurs should draft 2 PFs.

[KingKev]

Between McDermott, Langford, Walker, KBD, Wieskamp and Cacok at least 4 of them should be gone next season. Keldon will be the 2nd option and the Spurs should draft 2 PFs.

Add Landale also. I’d be okay go see none back.

[The Truth #6]

I was hoping Landale would be better. I like his 3P shooting. For that alone, he has some perhaps minimal role. But if we get actual power forwards, he would be on the outside looking in.

[ismael-robert]

Idiot triggered.

Aww don't be so hard on yourself bein a sniffer doesn't make u an idiot

[Atl Spur]

I was hoping Landale would be better. I like his 3P shooting. For that alone, he has some perhaps minimal role. But if we get actual power forwards, he would be on the outside looking in.

It’s his first year😳 I’d like to keep him , Wieskamp, Langford, kbd. Trade Doug to a contender.

[exstatic]

It’s his first year�� I’d like to keep him , Wieskamp, Langford, kbd. Trade Doug to a contender.

Landale is straight trash. Like him as a good guy, but he can't finish at the rim or defend it.

[GAustex]

Langford? Got nothing

[exstatic]

Langford? Got nothing

He's been hobbled by a hamstring and only played 4 games.

[GAustex]

He's been hobbled by a hamstring and only played 4 games.
Sure

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Our LOTTO pick has been eh

No. He's been a disappointment. At best now, we're hoping for a 3 and D guy that occasionally has the best game on the team. He is shockingly poor at scoring inside and is a turnover machine. He may correct the turnover aspect but he will likely not get easy points inside consistently.

That's a disappointment from my perspective given PATFOs history of doing more with lower, much lower draft picks. We still need our stud to ever be worth a shit.

[MannyIsGod]

I don't know if he's been a disappointment. Well I guess there are probably people who are disappointed by him, but I for one am surprised Pop started a 19 year old project player this much late in the year. It was pretty telling that he barely played in the 2nd half of tonight's game when shit hit the fan.

There are reasons to be excited about Primo. He played mostly good defense, had good athleticism, and has pretty damn good court vision and overall understanding of the game. But I think anyone who thought that them drafting a mostly unknown 18 year old expected more out of him right now than we got was probably unrealistic.

[Kurik]

Primo was OK, I’m not sure if he’ll ever finish at the rim at a good rate but if he can tighten his handles and the 3pt shot he’ll have a long career. He should soak in everything he sees from JRich.

[Chinook]

I get less worried about him the more I see of him. The NBA is a marginal league. A lot of the things he's trying to do on the court right now just need a bit more refinement. Hopefully there's a normal summer league where we get to see Primo as a featured player. With a couple of months of heavy gym work and against lesser competition, I have no doubt he'll look good. I'm not saying he's going to be a steal or anything, but I do think he'll be one of the better individual scorers on the team by the end of next season.

[MannyIsGod]

I get less worried about him the more I see of him. The NBA is a marginal league. A lot of the things he's trying to do on the court right now just need a bit more refinement. Hopefully there's a normal summer league where we get to see Primo as a featured player. With a couple of months of heavy gym work and against lesser competition, I have no doubt he'll look good. I'm not saying he's going to be a steal or anything, but I do think he'll be one of the better individual scorers on the team by the end of next season.

I hope so. I'm not sure I see the scoring ability that you do. His shot seemed good at the beginning of the season, but by the end his shooting percentage was pretty bad. That being said, I am pretty happy with him on the defensive end and I do think he could be a good facilitator/passer. Scorer I'm more skeptical.

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I don't know if he's been a disappointment. Well I guess there are probably people who are disappointed by him, but I for one am surprised Pop started a 19 year old project player this much late in the year. It was pretty telling that he barely played in the 2nd half of tonight's game when shit hit the fan.

There are reasons to be excited about Primo. He played mostly good defense, had good athleticism, and has pretty damn good court vision and overall understanding of the game. But I think anyone who thought that them drafting a mostly unknown 18 year old expected more out of him right now than we got was probably unrealistic.

Good athleticism? pretty damn good court vision? da fuck?

we are watching different players

[MannyIsGod]

Good athleticism? da fuck?

Just to be clear, you don't think Primo has good athleticism? I just want to make sure on this.

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Just to be clear, you don't think Primo has good athleticism? I just want to make sure on this.

Sometimes combine stats mean shit when translated to actual game play. Not sure what you've seen from him that demonstrates this. have you seen him beat even 1 person on the drive, when the opponent is not in transition defense? Or when they haven't boxed him out? He's 19. That's the kind of thing he should be showing now until he learns the game better.

[Chinook]

I hope so. I'm not sure I see the scoring ability that you do. His shot seemed good at the beginning of the season, but by the end his shooting percentage was pretty bad. That being said, I am pretty happy with him on the defensive end and I do think he could be a good facilitator/passer. Scorer I'm more skeptical.

I don't think he's used to NBA physicality right now, so a lot of the attempts he takes are missing badly. As he continues to refine his mechanics and body to an NBA level, I think a lot of those wild shots will go in. It's like how a player's percentage can take a dip when they change their shooting motion. Walker underwent a similar transition where he couldn't make anything near the rim for years because he hadn't learned to control his body. He got much better at that over the last two seasons. Hopefully Primo learns faster, because I think it's mostly a mental thing with him just having to calibrate his motions to the increased force from contests and smaller windows to get his shots off. It still won't be instant, but I think we'll see marked improvement soon.

[Kurik]

Just to be clear, you don't think Primo has good athleticism? I just want to make sure on this.

I’d say Vassell has good not great athleticism, Primo is average from what I’ve seen in terms of the NBA.

[offset formation]

I’d say Vassell has good not great athleticism, Primo is average from what I’ve seen in terms of the NBA.

Thank you. It seems some don't see this on this forum.

[offset formation]

I don't think he's used to NBA physicality right now, so a lot of the attempts he takes are missing badly. As he continues to refine his mechanics and body to an NBA level, I think a lot of those wild shots will go in. It's like how a player's percentage can take a dip when they change their shooting motion. Walker underwent a similar transition where he couldn't make anything near the rim for years because he hadn't learned to control his body. He got much better at that over the last two seasons. Hopefully Primo learns faster, because I think it's mostly a mental thing with him just having to calibrate his motions to the increased force from contests and smaller windows to get his shots off. It still won't be instant, but I think we'll see marked improvement soon.

I generally appreciate your takes Chinook, but honestly this is just a bunch of gobbledygook here.

Quit the minutia here. Take the 30,000 ft view. What do you see? Is his athleticism or speed impressive to you? That's ultimately where the meat will be on the bone for this kid.

I see a 3 and D guy that's probably better than LDN eventually but that has the same inside scoring abilities.

[The Truth #6]

I'd say generally he looks like a below average NBA athlete. I think he shows good instincts at times, even on defense, but too often he gets scored on and his occasional block and steal seem to have vanished. Something is off. I suppose it's possible that Pop has given him some specific instructions like to just focus on defensive rotations or something, but his impact on the game has been fairly invisible for a while. His best plays were earlier in the season as far as I can tell.

[Mnky]

It's the NBA. Everyone gets scored on. And they get scored on a lot. Primo shows bursts of above average athleticism but not consistently. I agree it's more adapting to the speed and physicality of the league.

Every young player on the spurs goes through a horrible shooting slump as they adapt to coach chips adjustments. They all show a better shot down the road. This is a very common thread with spurs shooting. Not sure how people don't grasp development phases. This happens in every sport at every level when you move up to a new coaching staff that actually adjusts you. Changing your shot from what you've done thousands of times naturally takes times and lots of effort. I have no doubt his shot will be much better next year as the game slows down and he thinks less and gets used to the new mechanics.

He did good. Looks like a smart player, with good awareness and feel for the game for his age. Atleast an average athlete who shows signs of being a knock down shooter at times. It's easier for other rookies to stand out when they have legit stars on their teams. Murray is the closest to a star and he's not a No.1 option. Arguably not a No.2 he also does not make his teammates better at a high rate like other PGs such as trey, Paul, lonzo etc.

I love Murray, but if he's the main scorer, defender, and distributor, your team is likely going to struggle against a team that's prepared to play you.

Primo did well with what he had. Which was a team way too green for the playoffs.

I look forward to his development. In hindsight its always easy to say we should have chose the guy who became an all defense or all star caliber their first year. Everyone outside of the top 3 usually wishes they had that hindsight most years.

[Chinook]

I generally appreciate your takes Chinook, but honestly this is just a bunch of gobbledygook here.

Quit the minutia here. Take the 30,000 ft view. What do you see? Is his athleticism or speed impressive to you? That's ultimately where the meat will be on the bone for this kid.

I see a 3 and D guy that's probably better than LDN eventually but that has the same inside scoring abilities.

Primo isn't Walker. He wasn't drafted to be Walker. I don't think there was any reason to measure him by his physical tools. That was something the Spurs definitely knew about when they took him, seeing how much they paid attention to the combine. I don't think you should expect him to be this physically dominant player lest his ceiling goes way down. I would say very few of the best one-on-one scorers have the elite burst you seem to consider a prerequisite. It's about positioning and getting to your spot, and I do think he'll be able to do that just fine. Primo is basically a small-forward, not a combo-guard.

Also, Danny Green would be a top-10 pick in the 2009 redraft. That was one of the best drafts of the modern era, and he's still one of the top 10 guys. If Primo is just a better version of prime Green, he'd have a good chance of being the best player in his draft class. An elite three-point shooter and defender who can get his inside the arc and score in the high-teens would be the best player on this team for sure. I think it's much more likely for Primo to develop into an iso-heavy 23ppg scorer than for him to reach that level of two-way prowess.

[rankingtear]

That strength will come in a year or two. Vassell had the same problem last year getting bumped off his spot a lot. He would look much different when that comes.

[offset formation]

Primo isn't Walker. He wasn't drafted to be Walker. I don't think there was any reason to measure him by his physical tools. That was something the Spurs definitely knew about when they took him, seeing how much they paid attention to the combine. I don't think you should expect him to be this physically dominant player lest his ceiling goes way down. I would say very few of the best one-on-one scorers have the elite burst you seem to consider a prerequisite. It's about positioning and getting to your spot, and I do think he'll be able to do that just fine. Primo is basically a small-forward, not a combo-guard.

Also, Danny Green would be a top-10 pick in the 2009 redraft. That was one of the best drafts of the modern era, and he's still one of the top 10 guys. If Primo is just a better version of prime Green, he'd have a good chance of being the best player in his draft class. An elite three-point shooter and defender who can get his inside the arc and score in the high-teens would be the best player on this team for sure. I think it's much more likely for Primo to develop into an iso-heavy 23ppg scorer than for him to reach that level of two-way prowess.

Well we agree that he is a much more natural fit at the 3 at least. And that might be because he's grown since being drafted but I simply do not understand the quite evident game plan from PATFO to fit him into the ball handler role where not only does he lack the consistent ability to breakdown his defender with the dribble (aka CP3 or Trey Young, or even Luka), nor make the efficient pass when trapped, he also lacks the ability to beat them athletically (aka Kobe, Booker, Dame, TP, etc. etc. etc.)

And we agree that if he turned into a Danny Green clone, that would be a positive. I'm just not sure he ever matches Greens efficiency from his peak.

We disagree that dismissing his physical tools matters. Imo, that's what separates the wheat from the chaff and why he's unlikely to be a perennial All-Star. Unless he figures out how to 'dribble it like Luka'.

[John B]

There’s no way the Spurs are letting this guy go. I think J-Rich just earned a permanent gig with the Spurs.

[KingKev]

Primo for ROY

[Texas_Ranger]

Cant wait to see "well, hes only 20" next year and then same shit until he turns 23 and is still shit.

[KingKev]

Cant wait to see "well, hes only 20" next year and then same shit until he turns 23 and is still shit.

The “Primo would be a top 5 pick in 2022 so we had to reach in 2021” is also a very entertaining argument.

[Atl Spur]

Cant wait to see "well, hes only 20" next year and then same shit until he turns 23 and is still shit.

If he is trash at 23 with 4+ years in the league, I think the consensus will be he isn’t good on this or any other board. You are acting silly looking for attention with this hot take of the year! You’ve probably been on your job for years and aren’t elite in your profession………. Keep Josh Name Out Your F*****g Mouth!!! ( Oscars 2022 )

[NickiRasgo]

Poole didn't had an impressive rookie season as well at age 20 with the Warriors (being dead last during 2019-2020 season). On his second year, almost the same and played less minutes in average but currently one of the candidate as MIP.
Obviously Poole isn't a lottery pick and Primo is but it's valid to give time esp. he had flashes as a rookie even though statistically he's quite disappointing. It's quite rare for a player to magically turnaround just within the season esp. under 20s.

[JeffDuncan]

Cant wait to see "well, hes only 20" next year and then same shit until he turns 23 and is still shit.


He could become good enough to be one of those players who gets included in trades for salary matching, and ends up playing for a dozen different teams over the course of his career. Looking on the bright side.

[KingKev]

I’ve never been on the Primo bandwagon but he disappointed even my very low expectations this season.

He had no business being in the starting lineup last night. Still early days but I don’t think he has near the high ceiling most thought.

[exstatic]

There’s no way the Spurs are letting this guy go. I think J-Rich just earned a permanent gig with the Spurs.

1514467773128314884

[Atl Spur]

These same posters will be back tracking in a few like always :) I trust PATFO over any of these ��. Don’t let facts & track record get in the way of a good debate!!! Lol

[John B]

I’ve never been on the Primo bandwagon but he disappointed even my very low expectations this season.

He had no business being in the starting lineup last night. Still early days but I don’t think he has near the high ceiling most thought.

I’m not a big fan of Jackson, but throwing Kobe in there to swim could’ve been a gutsy move despite Kobe missing bad and losing the game. Pop gave taste then reeled him back for a more veteran J-Rich, which was not a bad move to slow McCollum down.

Primo will be okay. I think he knows that Pop believes in him. Pop has never played a rookie more since Kawhi. For now he needs to continue getting better at defense, and getting that shooting percentage higher. That should get him regular backup minutes, for now.

[KingKev]

1514467773128314884

Sounds like PATFO had a grown man, very candid conversation with JRich same way they did Thad.

[exstatic]

Sounds like PATFO had had grown man, very candid conversations with JRich same way they did Thad.

He's been around the league for 7 seasons, and understands the way it works. I think he understands that he is a good bench and locker room piece, but that his best value may lie in what he can bring us in a trade. A player can absolutely be more or less valuable to teams depending on where they are in the build cycle.

[TDomination]

Cant wait to see "well, hes only 20" next year and then same shit until he turns 23 and is still shit.
and i can't wait to see the, "i'm glad i was wrong about him, glad we got him" post

seriously though, pop sees something in him enough to start him. like someone else mentioned, he hasn't started a rookie this much since kawhi. and we all know Pop doesn't just play rookies just because or since we drafted them in the 1st round lets start em. obviously we have to look no further than samanic.

but obviously his adjusted jump shot affected his rhythm. we all saw how started the year and how the change affected him. so hoping for him to get fully comfortable this offseason to increase his shooting %
we'll see see a much better Primo next year, that much i'm sure of.

[the golden era]

One point that I believe is important is what Doris was mentioning on the broadcast last night. Dude is 19 years old in a “playoff” one game scenario, one where our two best players struggled and looked a bit over their skis, and his kid was totally calm and collected. He looked like he belonged, and I thought he looked solid, executed the game plan while he was out there. He could make a jump next year, but it’s more likely year three where we can really judge if he could be an elite type player. I am hopeful but we really need to give the kid some time, which obviously Spurs are committed to doing with him. He clearly is in their plans for the future as evidenced by Pop giving him run the last 25 games. I still believe we should have drafted the Turkish kid and I hope we don’t end up regretting it, but Primo does have promise.

[emanueldavidginobili]

1510299320611860480

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Not saying based off these videos he's an elite athlete because he's not, but he definitely has shown flashes of good athleticism. The chances of him getting taller is slim to none but theres a good chance he's going to get more athletic and stronger.

[KingKev]

^ wow a 6’6, 19 yr old LOTTERY pick can dunk. Crazy. I was dunked on on a putback by a 5’9, 20 yr old asian kid last week at LA Fitness.

[emanueldavidginobili]

^ wow a 6’6, 19 yr old LOTTERY pick can dunk. Crazy. I was dunked on on a putback by a 5’9, 20 yr old asian kid last week at LA Fitness.
Box out next time

[SAGirl]

My best case scenario for him was a Khris Middleton type player, who is an average NBA athlete but has a killer jumpshot and ice in his veins, a great complementary offensive second star, but that requires his jumpshot to make a come back big time to begin with. He showed flashes of having the confidence to take tough shots and a smooth jumper eally, plus he doesn’t seem rattled. Like I said, still just so young. I’ll be watching next season whether that jumpshot makes a come back. I hope for us fans sake it does.

[offset formation]

1510299320611860480

1485615865622106118

1504270158310916096

Not saying based off these videos he's an elite athlete because he's not, but he definitely has shown flashes of good athleticism. The chances of him getting taller is slim to none but theres a good chance he's going to get more athletic and stronger.

If you notice each of these were on close-outs or a putback. I watched every game he played and he did not have even ONE in which he beat a primary defender on the dribble. Not a single one. It's for this reason I have him being a 3 and D guy at best, assuming he regains his 3pt touch.

[Atl Spur]

…………..

[mystargtr34]

Box out next time

And stop playing on a 9 foot rim.

[John B]

^ wow a 6’6, 19 yr old LOTTERY pick can dunk. Crazy. I was dunked on on a putback by a 5’9, 20 yr old asian kid last week at LA Fitness.

Was that you? :lol

[rankingtear]

He has derrick white athleticism no first step , but quick feet and a quick jump.

[Silverheart80]

I think the Clippers' Reggie Jackson is a good comp for how Primo's career production is going to turn out. Good news is it's a long career playing as a tweener between PG and SG, averaging a steady 12 points a game or so, with the occasional monster game. Was hoping the Spurs would've scored a more dynamic player with a #12 pick though.

[GAustex]

Really too was hoping for more from a Lotto pick
Patiently waiting for more due to age

[offset formation]

He has derrick white athleticism no first step , but quick feet and a quick jump.

Derrick got more easy buckets in one season than Primo is likely to get in his career. He got to the rim for half his points. Primo gets trapped then tries to throw up a bad shot that gets blocked or turns it over trying some stupid pocket pass. Right now I'd say he's much more comparable to a rookie Danny Green.

[tim_duncan_fan]

He's not an athlete and it's worrying that he hesitates to shoot, but I won't write him off yet.

[rankingtear]

Derrick got more easy buckets in one season than Primo is likely to get in his career. He got to the rim for half his points. Primo gets trapped then tries to throw up a bad shot that gets blocked or turns it over trying some stupid pocket pass. Right now I'd say he's much more comparable to a rookie Danny Green.

Derrick is crafty he has that half spin and can read defenders feet. Let's see what Primo develops to compensate.

[SAGirl]

I think the Clippers' Reggie Jackson is a good comp for how Primo's career production is going to turn out. Good news is it's a long career playing as a tweener between PG and SG, averaging a steady 12 points a game or so, with the occasional monster game. Was hoping the Spurs would've scored a more dynamic player with a #12 pick though.
Reggie Jackson is very explosive off the dribble. Very different player, also not a very good player, but at least he’s an NBA player. Bust is also a possible outcome if that jumpshot doesn’t make a comeback.

[Chomag]

I have not written him off yet , but I am concerned. So far he isn't showing anything more then a projected average nba player, but there is still hope he puts it all together and explodes to a high tier player. I believe Next season will be much more telling on what player he may become.

His lack of explosion has probably got me the most worried, that's almost a must in his position in today's NBA.

[Atl Spur]

I have not written him off yet , but I am concerned. So far he isn't showing anything more then a projected average nba player, but there is still hope he puts it all together and explodes to a high tier player. I believe Next season will be much more telling on what player he may become.

His lack of explosion has probably got me the most worried, that's almost a must in his position in today's NBA.

Is it required to Uber explosive/athletic?? Bro, he is in his first year playing with grown ass men…..he’ll play faster & smarter in the future! Enjoy his journey and stop overthinking this geez!

[GAustex]

Lotto pick was disappointing

[talkspurs]

If he is trash at 23 with 4+ years in the league, I think the consensus will be he isn’t good on this or any other board. You are acting silly looking for attention with this hot take of the year! You’ve probably been on your job for years and aren’t elite in your profession………. Keep Josh Name Out Your F*****g Mouth!!! ( Oscars 2022 )

lonnie walker says hi. He still has not had a good season and people want to resign him. So no people will not agree if he is not playing well in 4 years.

Edit- this is not saying how I feel about Primo but more pointing out that people will still like a player even if they have not shown anything after4 years.

[MultiTroll]

Anothony Edwards is 20 and is ballin in this his 2nd year including now in the playoffs.
Minn about to be 2-1 over Grizzleys. Back to Primo....

Can we hope for him to be as good as Edwards in year 2? No.

Ok how about year 3. I'm willing to see Primo incrementally grow like Kwa Leonard and Dejounte.

[GAustex]

If Edwards figures it out he can be the next Lebrun type

[Degoat]

People have to remember how young primo is tbh even once the season starts he’ll still only be 19 lol while looking up potential draft prospects I remembered that Primo went against the ignite g league team vs Jaden Hardy and Dyson Daniels and he tore them up.

[MultiTroll]

Holy shit 19-2 Grizz to start the 4th qtr and now lead by 86-85. :downspin::rollin

Hope Edwars is playing D.

[Atl Spur]

Anothony Edwards is 20 and is ballin in this his 2nd year including now in the playoffs.
Minn about to be 2-1 over Grizzleys. Back to Primo....

Can we hope for him to be as good as Edwards in year 2? No.

Ok how about year 3. I'm willing to see Primo incrementally grow like Kwa Leonard and Dejounte.

That turned ugly real quick!!! Lol

[BackHome]

I have not written him off yet , but I am concerned. So far he isn't showing anything more then a projected average nba player, but there is still hope he puts it all together and explodes to a high tier player. I believe Next season will be much more telling on what player he may become.

His lack of explosion has probably got me the most worried, that's almost a must in his position in today's NBA.

Yeah, and at his age your either explosive or your not you don't get that as you age he will get stronger and have better endurance but he never have Walker hops. I still have hope he develops I am thinking he should be a better Danny Green in that he can handle the ball a little and take it to the rim when people close out on him from the 3 ball. He should be a really good 3 point shooter for us cause his shot was butter in college

[Atl Spur]

I have not written him off yet , but I am concerned. So far he isn't showing anything more then a projected average nba player, but there is still hope he puts it all together and explodes to a high tier player. I believe Next season will be much more telling on what player he may become.

His lack of explosion has probably got me the most worried, that's almost a must in his position in today's NBA.

The league is filled with uber athletic low bbiq types, Josh is more skilled & measured! Described as being wise beyond his years, not scared of the moment, super confident should excite you pimp! Give him a little time to grow up, patience youn Jedi!

[Atl Spur]

Greek freak reviews and early reviews have taught some of you nothing��. Give prospect at least three years to assess talent potential & talent fulfilled.

[Ariel]

Greek freak reviews and early reviews have taught some of you nothing��. Give prospect at least three years to assess talent potential & talent fulfilled.
Bad example: Antetokoumpo 7 weeks into his NBA career:
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1894918-whats-the-real-ceiling-for-milwaukee-bucks-phenom-rookie-giannis-antetokounmpo
:lol

[offset formation]

Yeah, and at his age your either explosive or your not you don't get that as you age he will get stronger and have better endurance but he never have Walker hops. I still have hope he develops I am thinking he should be a better Danny Green in that he can handle the ball a little and take it to the rim when people close out on him from the 3 ball. He should be a really good 3 point shooter for us cause his shot was butter in college

This sums up my view precisely.

[GAustex]

Is a good lotto pick a maybe better Danny Green?

[offset formation]

Is a good lotto pick a maybe better Danny Green?

Depends on what else the team needed before hand. Given most of our cabinet was bare, on the whole, I'd say yes. But it was a reach, and better players including probably at minimum of 4 others, were still on the board. So in that respect, probably not. Especially if we had picked a Sengun and Herb Jones. Or a Sengun and maybe a Primo even. Or a Trey Murphy and Herb Jones.

[dbestpro]

Is going to be the worst pick since Alfredrick Hughes.

[Atl Spur]

Bad example: Antetokoumpo 7 weeks into his NBA career:
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1894918-whats-the-real-ceiling-for-milwaukee-bucks-phenom-rookie-giannis-antetokounmpo
:lol

You must be the new guy……..do a google search:) we’ll talk afterwards

[Atl Spur]

Is going to be the worst pick since Alfredrick Hughes.

Why isn’t this in blue?

[timtonymanu]

Too early to know what his ceiling will be. I just hope it leads to something special. I really hope it’s not another Luka kind of situation but then again Luka was just a straight up loser. Josh has more heart and drive.

[exstatic]

Posters already trashing Primo, but lusting after Sharpe is just peak ST.

[Atl Spur]

Posters already trashing Primo, but lusting after Sharpe is just peak ST.

Pay them no mind…. He may be a bust or next best thing but we won’t know either way for a few years. I think next year he makes a positive jump now that he’s experienced the league.

[rjv]

Posters already trashing Primo, but lusting after Sharpe is just peak ST.

ST and logic ≡ oil and water

[Ariel]

You must be the new guy……..do a google search:) we’ll talk afterwards
Nope. Signed up here before you did, chances are I watch basketball before you do. Antetokoumpo was very raw, but a blind man could see he had unique gifts from the second he stepped onto an NBA court, of which the article I posted (by way of Google search) is ONE example not three years after, but less than 2 months into his NBA career. Trying to draw a parallel between Primo's evolution with Giannis' is asinine. If you're going to bring up example, try relevant ones.

[Atl Spur]

Nope. Signed up here before you did, chances are I watch basketball before you do. Antetokoumpo was very raw, but a blind man could see he had unique gifts from the second he stepped onto an NBA court, of which the article I posted (by way of Google search) is ONE example not three years after, but less than 2 months into his NBA career. Trying to draw a parallel between Primo's evolution with Giannis' is asinine. If you're going to bring up example, try relevant ones.

So you did miss the point huh?

[Atl Spur]

So, if it was so clear Greek would be special, why did he go 15 again? Because the 14 that went before him must have been other worldly.

[GAustex]

Kid seems nice enough and does have some skills
Lotto pick? So far not a positive influence.
Mind trust could have done better

[Atl Spur]

USA Today:
15. Milwaukee Bucks: SF Giannis Antetokounmpo, Greece

The youngest player in the draft has tremendous potential. But there's not a lot known about him. Antetokounmpo may stay in Greece, as is typical for Greek players, for a few years. He has a great wingspan and is a very smooth athlete. He already has shown great handles and reminds scouts of Nicolas Batum. The Bucks could use help on the wings, but this pick is one for the future, possibly even three or four years down the road. Grade: B

[Atl Spur]

There’s more if you need it……..

[MannyIsGod]

I believe the reason Giannis went 15 was because no one believed his draft tapes since they weren't against good talent. But once he was drafted and once he played against NBA talent, I don't think there was much doubt that he was going to be very good. I don't remember for sure, but trying to conflate 1-2 months into the season vs draft/predraft is not good because of how much of an unmown he was prior to playing in the NBA.

[MannyIsGod]

In the scenarios where primo is a successful draft pick, there are plenty where he has the year he currently did. There are plenty where that first year also means he's a bust. Its just impossible to tell right now and people acting like they know one way or another are full of shit. There's no point in arguing about it. None of you see the future.

[rjv]

In the scenarios where primo is a successful draft pick, there are plenty where he has the year he currently did. There are plenty where that first year also means he's a bust. Its just impossible to tell right now and people acting like they know one way or another are full of shit. There's no point in arguing about it. None of you see the future.

ST has a very strange set of metrics. DJ was considered a bust two years into his career here and now he's an all-star (no matter how he got in) and a MIP finalist. there are players currently in the playoffs playing quite well that ST would have labeled busts two years into their seasons as well.

[Atl Spur]

In the scenarios where primo is a successful draft pick, there are plenty where he has the year he currently did. There are plenty where that first year also means he's a bust. Its just impossible to tell right now and people acting like they know one way or another are full of shit. There's no point in arguing about it. None of you see the future.

Don’t have to know the future if you don’t forget the past. I clearly have stated multiple times above to be patient and we will know soon enough. FYI , you may want to look at Greeks 1st year stats vs Primos. I need you boys to do better

[Ariel]

So, if it was so clear Greek would be special, why did he go 15 again? Because the 14 that went before him must have been other worldly.
OK, let's make it simple, because you don't seem to follow the argument.
1) You say "Give prospect at least three years to assess talent potential & talent fulfilled" citing as basis for your claim "Greek freak reviews and early reviews"
2) I show you an article, not 3 years after but 7 WEEKS into his NBA career, that already recognizes his incredible potential, disproving the notion that you have to wait years to have any idea.
Therefore my stance that your example was a bad one in making your case (you could have found many better ones). So of course you don't know the whole picture until later on in a players career, and players do take time to reach their potential (some more than others), but it's stupid to pretend nothing can be said until 3 years have gone by.

[Atl Spur]

OK, let's make it simple, because you don't seem to follow the argument.
1) You say "Give prospect at least three years to assess talent potential & talent fulfilled" citing as basis for your claim "Greek freak reviews and early reviews"
2) I show you an article, not 3 years after but 7 WEEKS into his NBA career, that already recognizes his incredible potential, disproving the notion that you have to wait years to have any idea.
Therefore my stance that your example was a bad one in making your case (you could have found many better ones). So of course you don't know the whole picture until later on in a players career, and players do take time to reach their potential (some more than others), but it's stupid to pretend nothing can be said until 3 years have gone by.

You still doing this? I’m being nice to you…..

[Atl Spur]

Show some humility and move on Ariel……. Josh is learning and so are you:)

[SAGirl]

Dejounte looked better than Primo as a rookie. He had very shaky handles and was so skinny that the smallest contact in a drive affected his efficiency bc he was off balance. He was too thin to finish against NBA athletes at the time, but he was super quick, turning a corner on someone with ease if his handle wasn’t pressed, and he had a few games where he looked really good. Primo hasn’t looked like DJ.

He’s too young to condemn, true but he also hasn’t given enough to be excited about. I would be underwhelmed by a 3/D outcome from him because there were better players in that mold in the draft already producing so I hope he turns out better than that. He’s got a lot to work on, but I’d focus on him getting his shooting back and adding the ballhandling as a complement to start with. I think his shooting opens up the game offensively for him, without it he won’t be as effective. I’d argue that hIs shot disappearing is making him look worse than he is and affected his overall game but we’ll see.

[Ariel]

Show some humility and move on Ariel……. Josh is learning and so are you:)
Huh? What I've learned so far is that you're bad at picking examples. Honestly what it is you think you're proving is beyond me.

[exstatic]

Dejounte looked better than Primo as a rookie. He had very shaky handles and was so skinny that the smallest contact in a drive affected his efficiency bc he was off balance. He was too thin to finish against NBA athletes at the time, but he was super quick, turning a corner on someone with ease if his handle wasn’t pressed, and he had a few games where he looked really good. Primo hasn’t looked like DJ.

He’s too young to condemn, true but he also hasn’t given enough to be excited about. I would be underwhelmed by a 3/D outcome from him because there were better players in that mold in the draft already producing so I hope he turns out better than that. He’s got a lot to work on, but I’d focus on him getting his shooting back and adding the ballhandling as a complement to start with. I think his shooting opens up the game offensively for him, without it he won’t be as effective. I’d argue that hIs shot disappearing is making him look worse than he is and affected his overall game but we’ll see.

Dejounte was a year older, was The Guy on his UW team, and had a HOF and likely HOF player to lean into. Not the same. Not even close.

[Atl Spur]

Huh? What I've learned so far is that you're bad at picking examples. Honestly what it is you think you're proving is beyond me.

Not worth my time…….. it’s totally beyond you. Be easy����

[SAGirl]

Dejounte was a year older, was The Guy on his UW team, and had a HOF and likely HOF player to lean into. Not the same. Not even close.
On the reverse, he’s having good coaching now that DJ didn’t have in college so it’s a wash as far as skills. However, where DJ had the athleticism, specially the quick first step to think something like what he has become was his best outcome, this guy is not that quick. He’ll have to rely on his strength eventually and the threat of his shot to open things up for him.

I am not as damning as others are with the handle bc I recognize like you he wasn’t handling the ball all that much in college and I think that can be improved. I am more concerned about his shot disappearing because I think he needs it to become an effective offensive player, and I hope that’s something that makes a come back next season.

[Ocotillo]

I am hoping that the disappearance of Primo's shooting percentage is because of a reworking of the shot mechanics and will come around. It is unnerving to see a guy who walked in and the one thing he showed was the ability to hit the three at a decent percentage to all of a sudden look like Drewbanks trying to shoot threes.

[Atl Spur]

Dejounte looked better than Primo as a rookie. He had very shaky handles and was so skinny that the smallest contact in a drive affected his efficiency bc he was off balance. He was too thin to finish against NBA athletes at the time, but he was super quick, turning a corner on someone with ease if his handle wasn’t pressed, and he had a few games where he looked really good. Primo hasn’t looked like DJ.

He’s too young to condemn, true but he also hasn’t given enough to be excited about. I would be underwhelmed by a 3/D outcome from him because there were better players in that mold in the draft already producing so I hope he turns out better than that. He’s got a lot to work on, but I’d focus on him getting his shooting back and adding the ballhandling as a complement to start with. I think his shooting opens up the game offensively for him, without it he won’t be as effective. I’d argue that hIs shot disappearing is making him look worse than he is and affected his overall game but we’ll see.

Listen to pop talk about primo and it is plain to see we might have something here.

[SAGirl]

I am hoping that the disappearance of Primo's shooting percentage is because of a reworking of the shot mechanics and will come around. It is unnerving to see a guy who walked in and the one thing he showed was the ability to hit the three at a decent percentage to all of a sudden look like Drewbanks trying to shoot threes.
Exactly this, and I hope the same.

[R. DeMurre]

Unless there's an offer for Primo, I suppose it doesn't really matter how anyone views him at the moment, in which case the wait-and-see approach is fine. But I wonder if those who thought he would've gone top 5 this year had he stayed in school still believe that? Let's say after the lottery, the Pistons have the #5 pick and they call the Spurs, say they're interested in Primo, and and are willing to trade the #5 for him... would you do it?

[pad300]

Unless there's an offer for Primo, I suppose it doesn't really matter how anyone views him at the moment, in which case the wait-and-see approach is fine. But I wonder if those who thought he would've gone top 5 this year had he stayed in school still believe that? Let's say after the lottery, the Pistons have the #5 pick and they call the Spurs, say they're interested in Primo, and and are willing to trade the #5 for him... would you do it?

Interesting Q. The 5 suggest (to me), that your in the middle of the 2nd tier of this draft: Ivey, Sharpe, Keegan. You could expect to have the opportunity to pick from 2 of those guys... I would seriously consider doing that from the Spurs end. I figure I either end up with Sharpe, who I think has a higher ceiling that Primo (athleticism) or Keegan (a better positional fit, and a better player right now but Primo could catch him later due to youth).

[GAustex]

Like a duck on a June bug

[SAGirl]

No one is trading a top five pick for Primo. Once you are in the NBA and the promise you showed before isn’t evident, then you are one of many players still trying to break in, and your value goes downhill to other teams. The guy is too young to give up on, but it’s different when we are talking you have to give up something for him. BTW next season he has to show something, some improvement or his value will go down even further. He would still be very young but a lot of youngins don’t cut it in the NBA if they can’t improve.

[Atl Spur]

I am hoping that the disappearance of Primo's shooting percentage is because of a reworking of the shot mechanics and will come around. It is unnerving to see a guy who walked in and the one thing he showed was the ability to hit the three at a decent percentage to all of a sudden look like Drewbanks trying to shoot threes.

Don’t forget the part of him becoming more well rounded / complete. Demar Derozan spoke of this also while in San Antonio.

[Atl Spur]

No one is trading a top five pick for Primo. Once you are in the NBA and the promise you showed before isn’t evident, then you are one of many players still trying to break in, and your value goes downhill to other teams. The guy is too young to give up on, but it’s different when we are talking you have to give up something for him. BTW next season he has to show something, some improvement or his value will go down even further. He would still be very young but a lot of youngins don’t cut it in the NBA if they can’t improve.

True story

[R. DeMurre]

Let's make it more interesting: the Pistons have the 3rd pick in the draft. Chet goes #1. The Pistons call and say they'll trade the #3 and Isaiah Livers for Primo and KJ and the Spurs' pick. Would you do it?

[offset formation]

Don’t forget the part of him becoming more well rounded / complete. Demar Derozan spoke of this also while in San Antonio.

I'm gonna have serious respect for your determination to make him into something he doesn't seem to have of he ends up showing out.

You seem to think he's still just one small leap from stardom. I think he's one giant leap from being Danny Green, or Danny Green's best season +.

[Atl Spur]

I'm gonna have serious respect for your determination to make him into something he doesn't seem to have of he ends up showing out.

You seem to think he's still just one small leap from stardom. I think he's one giant leap from being Danny Green, or Danny Green's best season +.

Lol, appreciate you! I just want to give the kid a fair shake.

[exstatic]

The Venn diagram of posters slagging Primo and posters knob slobbering Sharpe is one circle.

[T Park]

Dejounte looked better than Primo as a rookie. He had very shaky handles and was so skinny that the smallest contact in a drive affected his efficiency bc he was off balance. He was too thin to finish against NBA athletes at the time, but he was super quick, turning a corner on someone with ease if his handle wasn’t pressed, and he had a few games where he looked really good. Primo hasn’t looked like DJ.

He’s too young to condemn, true but he also hasn’t given enough to be excited about. I would be underwhelmed by a 3/D outcome from him because there were better players in that mold in the draft already producing so I hope he turns out better than that. He’s got a lot to work on, but I’d focus on him getting his shooting back and adding the ballhandling as a complement to start with. I think his shooting opens up the game offensively for him, without it he won’t be as effective. I’d argue that hIs shot disappearing is making him look worse than he is and affected his overall game but we’ll see.



Jesus I don’t even know where to start with this

[offset formation]

Jesus I don’t even know where to start with this

How about with some counterfactuals?

[mystargtr34]

Had a look at some mocks from 2021.

CBS had Primo going 32.

“Knicks go youth here and grab Joshua Primo, the youngest prospect in the draft, who at 18 years old can really stroke it from deep and who made a strong impression at the draft combine with his ability to handle the ball and create off the bounce.”

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-mock-draft-2021-complete-two-round-projections-for-all-60-picks-starting-with-cade-cunningham-at-no-1/amp/

Another mock at NBA draft room had Primo at 35.

Not sayin it means anything just interesting. He must have impressed the Spurs at the combine workouts and Spurs may have thought other teams would have liked what they saw too. Plus his age.

[offset formation]

Had a look at some mocks from 2021.

CBS had Primo going 32.

“Knicks go youth here and grab Joshua Primo, the youngest prospect in the draft, who at 18 years old can really stroke it from deep and who made a strong impression at the draft combine with his ability to handle the ball and create off the bounce.”

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-mock-draft-2021-complete-two-round-projections-for-all-60-picks-starting-with-cade-cunningham-at-no-1/amp/

Another mock at NBA draft room had Primo at 35.

Not sayin it means anything just interesting. He must have impressed the Spurs at the combine workouts and Spurs may have thought other teams would have liked what they saw too. Plus his age.

PATFO saw some nephew comparisons and thought they were drafting the next steal, imo. I think they thought if they could just get his handles up to par, he could run the point on occasion like neph does. I think they saw a potential defensive stud. A lights out 3 pt shooter already superior to neph at the same stage.

When in reality, everyone and their mother was almost immediately awed by neph's potential and very few people are in awe of the season Primo just put up. How could you when literally only 2 NBA players had a worse season by PER.

Primo should not be compared to anyone but himself at this point. His shooting stroke is under reconstruction. His defense got him shipped down to Austin on at least one occasion. His turnover percentage is horrendous. And his lack of explosive ability will greatly limit his ability to work his way into the paint for easy buckets.

So in reality, as much as I hate to say it, he's likely not gonna sniff neph's jock strap on upside.

[Mr. Body]

Had a look at some mocks from 2021.

CBS had Primo going 32.

“Knicks go youth here and grab Joshua Primo, the youngest prospect in the draft, who at 18 years old can really stroke it from deep and who made a strong impression at the draft combine with his ability to handle the ball and create off the bounce.”

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-mock-draft-2021-complete-two-round-projections-for-all-60-picks-starting-with-cade-cunningham-at-no-1/amp/

Another mock at NBA draft room had Primo at 35.

Not sayin it means anything just interesting. He must have impressed the Spurs at the combine workouts and Spurs may have thought other teams would have liked what they saw too. Plus his age.

This has been discussed ad nauseum. Mock drafts were very slow to pick up on interest some teams had in him. He was going up on their boards but weren't exactly blabbing about it.

[exstatic]

PATFO saw some nephew comparisons and thought they were drafting the next steal, imo. I think they thought if they could just get his handles up to par, he could run the point on occasion like neph does. I think they saw a potential defensive stud. A lights out 3 pt shooter already superior to neph at the same stage.

When in reality, everyone and their mother was almost immediately awed by neph's potential and very few people are in awe of the season Primo just put up. How could you when literally only 2 NBA players had a worse season by PER.

Primo should not be compared to anyone but himself at this point. His shooting stroke is under reconstruction. His defense got him shipped down to Austin on at least one occasion. His turnover percentage is horrendous. And his lack of explosive ability will greatly limit his ability to work his way into the paint for easy buckets.

So in reality, as much as I hate to say it, he's likely not gonna sniff neph's jock strap on upside.

Let’s not revise history TOO much. Rookie Kawhi averaged 7.9p/5.1r in 24 minutes, and basically sat in the corner on offense.

[Chomag]

Primo I still can see developing into a fine player but I'm definitely on the camp that he is a second rounder. I'm not saying he won't be great at all but maybe we need to keep our expectations at that level in hopes that he overachieves those expectations.

He's not a wasted pick by any means but I think Spurs FO dropped the ball and missed a big opportunity with the lottery pick had they saved Primo for their second round choice especially with so many top prospects that were still on deck.

To think Spurs could of had both Primo and Trey Murphy, or Hubert Jones, Sengun ect..as the list goes on

[Maddog]

PATFO saw some nephew comparisons and thought they were drafting the next steal, imo. I think they thought if they could just get his handles up to par, he could run the point on occasion like neph does. I think they saw a potential defensive stud. A lights out 3 pt shooter already superior to neph at the same stage.

When in reality, everyone and their mother was almost immediately awed by neph's potential and very few people are in awe of the season Primo just put up. How could you when literally only 2 NBA players had a worse season by PER.

Primo should not be compared to anyone but himself at this point. His shooting stroke is under reconstruction. His defense got him shipped down to Austin on at least one occasion. His turnover percentage is horrendous. And his lack of explosive ability will greatly limit his ability to work his way into the paint for easy buckets.

So in reality, as much as I hate to say it, he's likely not gonna sniff neph's jock strap on upside.


Let’s not revise history TOO much. Rookie Kawhi averaged 7.9p/5.1r in 24 minutes, and basically sat in the corner on offense.

Everyone was so in awe of Nephews talent he was drafted 15th
4 players drafted ahead of him are not even in the NBA.
Even in 2014 it wasn't until late in the year and playoffs did it become apparent that he was more than just a really great defensive player.
That season he scored over 20 points in only 3 regular season games and in the playoffs he had 7 out of 23 games with 10 or less points.
He Manu where essentially tied for 3rd leading scorer in the playoffs.

I'm not sure what PATFO saw in Primo and possibly other teams. His lack of explosiveness is quite obvious and even listed in several evals- so I'm fairly certain they knew this as a limitation.
Historically the Spurs have always been really good at letting players be who they are not trying to mold them into a past player, so I doubt they saw a future Nephew in him.
I'm concerned, but almost certainly they knew these limitations and saw something in him.


Lacks the type of ball-on-a-string handle and explosive first step found in players with go-to scoring upside. He projects more as a complementary player.

Below-the-rim athlete who struggles to finish around the hoop. He displays touch on crafty right-handed layups but avoids contact and lacks a reliable left hand.

[offset formation]

Let’s not revise history TOO much. Rookie Kawhi averaged 7.9p/5.1r in 24 minutes, and basically sat in the corner on offense.

All true, but each one of the fans watching those games had wood on what he was gonna be capable of, especially defensively. I remember one steal and one handed claw jam, think against Indiana that sent the message boards ablaze.

He just had a different swag.

[offset formation]

Everyone was so in awe of Nephews talent he was drafted 15th
4 players drafted ahead of him are not even in the NBA.
Even in 2014 it wasn't until late in the year and playoffs did it become apparent that he was more than just a really great defensive player.
That season he scored over 20 points in only 3 regular season games and in the playoffs he had 7 out of 23 games with 10 or less points.
He Manu where essentially tied for 3rd leading scorer in the playoffs.

I'm not sure what PATFO saw in Primo and possibly other teams. His lack of explosiveness is quite obvious and even listed in several evals- so I'm fairly certain they knew this as a limitation.
Historically the Spurs have always been really good at letting players be who they are not trying to mold them into a past player, so I doubt they saw a future Nephew in him.
I'm concerned, but almost certainly they knew these limitations and saw something in him.


Lacks the type of ball-on-a-string handle and explosive first step found in players with go-to scoring upside. He projects more as a complementary player.

Below-the-rim athlete who struggles to finish around the hoop. He displays touch on crafty right-handed layups but avoids contact and lacks a reliable left hand.


Again, not based on scouting reports, nor even to exststic's point about production. It was on the eye test, and he was passing it nightly.

Now, the one thing I'll say that counters my point is that PATFO, mainly Pop in this case, were and are singing their respective cases about their potential. So if you take Pop's view on Primo, he'll be special. But that might just be Pop getting over his skiis in search of the next nephew that broke his (and our collective) heart

[KingKev]

Again, not based on scouting reports, nor even to exststic's point about production. It was on the eye test, and he was passing it nightly.

Now, the one thing I'll say that counters my point is that PATFO, mainly Pop in this case, were and are singing their respective cases about their potential. So if you take Pop's view on Primo, he'll be special. But that might just be Pop getting over his skiis in search of the next nephew that broke his (and our collective) heart

What have a missed Pop hasn’t said much about Primo other than he is young and has lots to learn. By DJ and Kahwhi’s second year Pop was raving about them so we shall see I guess.

[XDT76]

Again, not based on scouting reports, nor even to exststic's point about production. It was on the eye test, and he was passing it nightly.

Now, the one thing I'll say that counters my point is that PATFO, mainly Pop in this case, were and are singing their respective cases about their potential. So if you take Pop's view on Primo, he'll be special. But that might just be Pop getting over his skiis in search of the next nephew that broke his (and our collective) heart

Pop usually prop up our players in the media, whether he really means it or not is another thing. He compares Forbes to Curry.

[GAustex]

All true, but each one of the fans watching those games had wood on what he was gonna be capable of, especially defensively. I remember one steal and one handed claw jam, think against Indiana that sent the message boards ablaze.

He just had a different swag.
As a rookie he rebounded like a maniac

[poopbox]

Primo is the youngest player in the nba and some in this thread are already writing his career arc :rollin

How about we find out what position he is supposed to play first before we wax poetic on his 10 year career :rollin

[R. DeMurre]

Kawhi's raw stats were modest in his rookie year, but his impact stats were already off the charts... he had the 2nd best DRtg on the team after Timmy, and his ORtg was the best among starters. His net rating was +18, the best on a team that was about to go to the finals in the following two years. Primo's net rating this year was -19, dead last on the team. Yes, Primo is younger, but there's no way his rookie year can be compared to Kawhi's. There was no question that Kawhi would be an impact player after his first few months.

People were already marveling at Kawhi's defense as a rookie:

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1048133-san-antonio-rookie-kawhi-leonard-can-use-former-spur-as-defensive-role-model

[K...]

kawhi= 2 yrs in college including a year as team #1, nba ready body, playing with HOF talent, greatly exceeded expectations, played on a team with length
Primo = 1 yr college backup, still growing, playing with lottery talent, has made uneven progress, playing with midgets

dont compare primo to HOF talent form the draft but the average player in his position. the sengun sickos have the best argument that he was a reach. but i don't like comparing different positions

[south side spur]

What have a missed Pop hasn’t said much about Primo other than he is young and has lots to learn. By DJ and Kahwhi’s second year Pop was raving about them so we shall see I guess.

https://www.expressnews.com/sports/spurs/article/Spurs-Josh-Primo-17015360.php

“He’s going to be a hell of a player,” the coach said. “He’s just realizing what it’s like to play with me. He’s basically a high school kid. The physicality of the game is something he’s getting used to, the tenacity.”
Popovich loves how Primo never hangs his head.
“His demeanor is just like this,” Popovich said, using a hand gesture signaling even keel. “Mistakes don’t bother him. He just goes on to the next play. He’s a special kid.”

[R. DeMurre]

kawhi= 2 yrs in college including a year as team #1, nba ready body, playing with HOF talent, greatly exceeded expectations, played on a team with length
Primo = 1 yr college backup, still growing, playing with lottery talent, has made uneven progress, playing with midgets

dont compare primo to HOF talent form the draft but the average player in his position. the sengun sickos have the best argument that he was a reach. but i don't like comparing different positions


I was only replying to others making that comparison. I'm on record many times saying it's too early to judge.

Though, tbh, the "playing with HOF talent" is important. Kawhi's impact stats were great compared to his own teammates... not in a vacuum or compared to players on other teams.

[PrimeMinister]

some suit from CBS said primo was going in the second round, pack it up boys. discussion over.

[KingKev]

https://www.expressnews.com/sports/spurs/article/Spurs-Josh-Primo-17015360.php

“He’s going to be a hell of a player,” the coach said. “He’s just realizing what it’s like to play with me. He’s basically a high school kid. The physicality of the game is something he’s getting used to, the tenacity.”
Popovich loves how Primo never hangs his head.
“His demeanor is just like this,” Popovich said, using a hand gesture signaling even keel. “Mistakes don’t bother him. He just goes on to the next play. He’s a special kid.”

Sounds more like Pop patronizing a struggling rookie to me tbh. Same reason he brought Primo up full time to end the season.

[offset formation]

What have a missed Pop hasn’t said much about Primo other than he is young and has lots to learn. By DJ and Kahwhi’s second year Pop was raving about them so we shall see I guess.

He's said his defensive instinct is special and that he's mature beyond his years, along with a few other superlatives. Recall though Pop angrily called a timeout when Primo got burned on back to back, backdoor plays. Primo didn't come back in the rest of that came as I recall and was sent back down like the same week Pop finally went on record saying it was sink or swim time for him.

So evidently he wasn't as special as Pop intimated.

[offset formation]

Primo is the youngest player in the nba and some in this thread are already writing his career arc :rollin

How about we find out what position he is supposed to play first before we wax poetic on his 10 year career :rollin

Brawndo, it's got electrolytes.

[offset formation]

kawhi= 2 yrs in college including a year as team #1, nba ready body, playing with HOF talent, greatly exceeded expectations, played on a team with length
Primo = 1 yr college backup, still growing, playing with lottery talent, has made uneven progress, playing with midgets

dont compare primo to HOF talent form the draft but the average player in his position. the sengun sickos have the best argument that he was a reach. but i don't like comparing different positions

I'm not comparing them, and would never do so in a sane universe. I'm saying it's my opinion that Pop and PATFO as a whole thought they had located their next neph, which is why they made the draft stretch pick that they did.

[exstatic]

For those complaining about Primo’s athleticism, Kawhi’s MAX vert, with a run up, was 32”. Even in 2011, that was pretty pedestrian. Lonnie Walker has like a 40”-42”, and he ain’t done shit.

Oh, and Josh’s MAX very is 37.5”.

[Atl Spur]

Josh will be fine :)

[Maddog]

I'm not comparing them, and would never do so in a sane universe. I'm saying it's my opinion that Pop and PATFO as a whole thought they had located their next neph, which is why they made the draft stretch pick that they did.


For those complaining about Primo’s athleticism, Kawhi’s MAX vert, with a run up, was 32”. Even in 2011, that was pretty pedestrian. Lonnie Walker has like a 40”-42”, and he ain’t done shit.

Oh, and Josh’s MAX very is 37.5”.

No,
I doubt they they thought they had the next nephew. From an a front office point of view they've never been that delusional. I can disagree with a lot, but they e always known what they have.
.
To ex's point, Nephew was and still to this day was never incredibly explosive. Very long and strong.

[offset formation]

No,
I doubt they they thought they had the next nephew. From an a front office point of view they've never been that delusional. I can disagree with a lot, but they e always known what they have.
.
To ex's point, Nephew was and still to this day was never incredibly explosive. Very long and strong.

But his handles have been special enough to get him around defenders, and I'd say he is actually quick, especially his first step. And he's fast in the open court, has hesitation moves, and does the Euro step. Josh simply hasn't exhibited a burst, special handles, top speed.or a Euro.

[offset formation]

For those complaining about Primo’s athleticism, Kawhi’s MAX vert, with a run up, was 32”. Even in 2011, that was pretty pedestrian. Lonnie Walker has like a 40”-42”, and he ain’t done shit.

Oh, and Josh’s MAX very is 37.5”.

He has a base like Robert Newhouse (old Cowboys fullback for those not in the know) for a 19 year old.. He's powerful. But slow. It's clear as day.

[GAustex]

I know his calves look a bit like Zions
Hopefully Primo does not get fat like Zion

[KingKev]

^ Johnny Drama that you?

[GAustex]

^ Primo getting fat?
Like Atl poster
Give him time and we will see

[Sugus]

But his handles have been special enough to get him around defenders, and I'd say he is actually quick, especially his first step. And he's fast in the open court, has hesitation moves, and does the Euro step. Josh simply hasn't exhibited a burst, special handles, top speed.or a Euro.

Lol, did Nephew show those hesi moves, flash the Euro steps, all in his rookie season? Easy to look at his 30-year-old game and see how comparatively lackluster Primo's looks. But it's a serious misconception thinking he came into the league with those things solidly "in his bag". He learned all of that in subsequent off-seasons (one of the only players who truly brought something new into his game every season) of training and hard work, the same way Primo can.

I'd actually say Primo's shown better "moves", specially on isolation, than Neph did in his rookie season. For example, I've definitely seen Primo euro-stepping in one of his earlier games, not to mention those pullup-3 moves he used to pull out, but stopped once his shot got wonky. Of course, they're completely different players and Neph had a lot of other valuable aspects to his game - I'm strictly arguing against this notion that Kawhi was a polished, or creative/natural, offensive player in his rookie season.

[Atl Spur]

Lol, did Nephew show those hesi moves, flash the Euro steps, all in his rookie season? Easy to look at his 30-year-old game and see how comparatively lackluster Primo's looks. But it's a serious misconception thinking he came into the league with those things solidly "in his bag". He learned all of that in subsequent off-seasons (one of the only players who truly brought something new into his game every season) of training and hard work, the same way Primo can.

I'd actually say Primo's shown better "moves", specially on isolation, than Neph did in his rookie season. For example, I've definitely seen Primo euro-stepping in one of his earlier games, not to mention those pullup-3 moves he used to pull out, but stopped once his shot got wonky. Of course, they're completely different players and Neph had a lot of other valuable aspects to his game - I'm strictly arguing against this notion that Kawhi was a polished, or creative/natural, offensive player in his rookie season.

Don’t waste your time�� Josh will take it from here.

[offset formation]

Lol, did Nephew show those hesi moves, flash the Euro steps, all in his rookie season? Easy to look at his 30-year-old game and see how comparatively lackluster Primo's looks. But it's a serious misconception thinking he came into the league with those things solidly "in his bag". He learned all of that in subsequent off-seasons (one of the only players who truly brought something new into his game every season) of training and hard work, the same way Primo can.

I'd actually say Primo's shown better "moves", specially on isolation, than Neph did in his rookie season. For example, I've definitely seen Primo euro-stepping in one of his earlier games, not to mention those pullup-3 moves he used to pull out, but stopped once his shot got wonky. Of course, they're completely different players and Neph had a lot of other valuable aspects to his game - I'm strictly arguing against this notion that Kawhi was a polished, or creative/natural, offensive player in his rookie season.

And I'll counter that you are simply mistaken. And I think others have chimed in with a different take than this.

Neph may not have been "polished," a term I never used. But his advanced stats were light years ahead of Primo's. I'll say it again, Josh's rookie season produced the lowest of all drafted rookies and the entirety of the rest of the league save 2 other people, on PER.

They are different players, with much different games at roughly similar points in their careers. Could the gap narrow? I'd not only hope for that, I'd expect it.

The real error here was doing any comparison between the two, since they are simply on different development tracks.

Pop, whether knowingly or unknowingly conflate the two, however, given he hasn't talked about another rookie like Primo, since he did neph. And that's simply not fair to Josh.

[Dejounte]

It’s mind numbingly stupid to use PER as a measure of how good a player is given the context around Primo’s season.

Folks need to stop using stats they have no idea how to use. Lord have mercy.

[offset formation]

It’s mind numbingly stupid to use PER as a measure of how good a player is given the context around Primo’s season.

Folks need to stop using stats they have no idea how to use. Lord have mercy.

Lmao. Why did it rank him below every other rook? Stop making excuses. He had a bad year. Deal with it.

No idea how to use? It's a metric of play that is one of the few on ESPN.com and basketballreference.com listed with the basic stats of player performance.

I swear some of you guys have go-go gadget arms because you reach long and far to find a narrative that fits your agenda.

[The Truth #6]

I think Pop has confidence in Primo and so due to that I will have some hope for him, ultimately.

[Dejounte]

Lmao. Why did it rank him below every other rook? Stop making excuses. He had a bad year. Deal with it.

No idea how to use? It's a metric of play that is one of the few on ESPN.com and basketballreference.com listed with the basic stats of player performance.

I swear some of you guys have go-go gadget arms because you reach long and far to find a narrative that fits your agenda.

You’re using it wrong. You’re dumb as bricks and should stay far away from stats as much as possible. You actually have valid points elsewhere, i.e. his agility, but your head is so far up your ass that you think I’m only saying this shit to make excuses. I have my own concerns about Primo and to put my opinion in your childish game of supporters vs haters is nonsense.

[offset formation]

You’re using it wrong. You’re dumb as bricks and should stay far away from stats as much as possible. You actually have valid points elsewhere, i.e. his agility, but your head is so far up your ass that you think I’m only saying this shit to make excuses. I have my own concerns about Primo and to put my opinion in your childish game of supporters vs haters is nonsense.

Why should PER not pertain to him? Try using a big boy argument instead of calling me dumb. By the way, I'm not afraid of quoting you and debating. OTOH, your first post was just a cowardly drive-by. I've been on this board for years, and you're all over the map with me. Sometimes you say I'm not the idiot you're arguing with and that I know what I'm talking about and now I shouldn't even try, huh?

You disagree with PER on Primo almost exclusively? Why? Try facts. Or just go about your day with drive-bys and I'll ignore you next time.

One counterfactual to your point above...why isPER demonstrative of the season Kuminga had, but not Josh. Kuminga PER over 70 games and 1500 minutes is 15.2. Primo over 50 games and almost 1000 minutes is 7.1 and was falling as the season progressed and he got more PT.

[BacktoBasics]

Why should PER not pertain to him? Try using a big boy argument instead of calling me dumb. By the way, I'm not afraid of quoting you and debating. OTOH, your first post was just a cowardly drive-by. I've been on this board for years, and you're all over the map with me. Sometimes you say I'm not the idiot you're arguing with and that I know what I'm talking about and now I shouldn't even try, huh?

You disagree with PER on Primo almost exclusively? Why? Try facts. Or just go about your day with drive-bys and I'll ignore you next time.

One counterfactual to your point above...why isPER demonstrative of the season Kuminga had, but not Josh. Kuminga PER over 70 games and 1500 minutes is 15.2. Primo over 50 games and almost 1000 minutes is 7.1 and was falling as the season progressed and he got more PT.

Seems to me in my limited exposure to Kuminga that he was given a bit more freedom to be himself whereas Primo was given less latitude and worked more of flying under the radar and deferring.

[R. DeMurre]

To be fair, there's no statistic that will show that Primo had a good year statistically, because he didn't. Not RAPTOR, not EPM, not on/off +/-, not PER, not TS% or VORP, not in a vacuum, and not in comparison with his teammates. You could say his assist-to-turnover ratio showed progress compared to his one year in college, but it still wasn't great. All of Primo's value lies in being very young and showing flashes, and being coachable and hardworking. There's really no metric anyone can point to that could be seen as conclusively showing that he wasn't one of the least effective players in the league. Pokusevski-- last year's youngest league player-- experienced the same thing last season statistically, and then this year took a step up in most metrics. Primo will almost undoubtedly do the same next season.

[offset formation]

Seems to me in my limited exposure to Kuminga that he was given a bit more freedom to be himself whereas Primo was given less latitude and worked more of flying under the radar and deferring.

This is a fair point, but Josh also started the last 15 games or so and clearly had the greenlight to shoot. He also was running point and often deferred with a high turnover %. And as I noted above, he actually got worse in PER as the season progressed with more PT. Nonetheless, I'll grant you Kuminga often was just backcutting and crashing the boards. See Dejounte, that's how you counter.

[Atl Spur]

This is a fair point, but Josh also started the last 15 games or so and clearly had the greenlight to shoot. He also was running point and often deferred with a high turnover %. And as I noted above, he actually got worse in PER as the season progressed with more PT. Nonetheless, I'll grant you Kuminga often was just backcutting and crashing the boards. See Dejounte, that's how you counter.

Josh will be more assertive this year.

[The Truth #6]

Atl Spur, I'm getting the impression that you think people should give Primo more time and patience.

[Atl Spur]

Atl Spur, I'm getting the impression that you think people should give Primo more time and patience.

Lol…….kind of

[BacktoBasics]

Josh will be more assertive this year.

I agree. Don't get me wrong. I'm 100% in the camp that believes Primo is a quality player in the making. Maybe not an All-Star but I'd be thrilled if he developed like a Vassel or Keldon.

I don't even take much issue with Lonnie's development, especially considering where he was drafted. I think he's a nice punch off the bench. I never felt like any of these players needed to be a star to avoid being called a bust.

[bluebellmaniac]

Stated was that his PER was 7.1 for this season.

If his PER is 10.5 next season, do you say "Wow, that's a 50% improvement over 2022" or do you just look at it absolutely and still say "He sucks"?

If you are on the positive end, do you point to the growth with a hope for a PER of 13 - 15 his junior year in the league?

[offset formation]

Stated was that his PER was 7.1 for this season.

If his PER is 10.5 next season, do you say "Wow, that's a 50% improvement over 2022" or do you just look at it absolutely and still say "He sucks"?

If you are on the positive end, do you point to the growth with a hope for a PER of 13 - 15 his junior year in the league?

As hard as I have been on him, even I am not saying he sucks, just that he is likely not gonna be this team's next All-Star, despite some of the hype about him and Pop's out of character praise for him.

In fact I am of the belief he'll eventually be quite good and probably for a number of years. I just detest people trying to write off his poor play as a function of misused statistics or because he "is the youngest player in the league." He had a shitty year. He'll get better. The end.

[Atl Spur]

As hard as I have been on him, even I am not saying he sucks, just that he is likely not gonna be this team's next All-Star, despite some of the hype about him and Pop's out of character praise for him.

In fact I am of the belief he'll eventually be quite good and probably for a number of years. I just detest people trying to write off his poor play as a function of misused statistics or because he "is the youngest player in the league." He had a shitty year. He'll get better. The end.

Name a rookie that’s had a great year as a spur….. most vets have a hard time assimilating to the spurs way! We all know his year wasn’t great but I’m going to stick with the hall of fame coaches assessment of the player. Time will tell….

[XDT76]

Name a rookie that’s had a great year as a spur….. most vets have a hard time assimilating to the spurs way! We all know his year wasn’t great but I’m going to stick with the hall of fame coaches assessment of the player. Time will tell….

How about DR50 and TD21, that's 2.

[offset formation]

Name a rookie that’s had a great year as a spur….. most vets have a hard time assimilating to the spurs way! We all know his year wasn’t great but I’m going to stick with the hall of fame coaches assessment of the player. Time will tell….

Your point is valid in that Spurs rookies are often held back or limited moreso than rookies on other teams. However, Primo regressed as the year went on.

As to your question, TP showed explosiveness and a grit that I haven't seen yet from Josh. He'll do better next year so as you say, time will tell. Just think there will be a cap to his improvement once he starts making it that will limit him below all-star level.

[rascal]

Your point is valid in that Spurs rookies are often held back or limited moreso than rookies on other teams. However, Primo regressed as the year went on.

As to your question, TP showed explosiveness and a grit that I haven't seen yet from Josh. He'll do better next year so as you say, time will tell. Just think there will be a cap to his improvement once he starts making it that will limit him below all-star level.

Josh will never be as good as TP. Lacks the quickness that TP had.

[exstatic]

Stated was that his PER was 7.1 for this season.

If his PER is 10.5 next season, do you say "Wow, that's a 50% improvement over 2022" or do you just look at it absolutely and still say "He sucks"?

If you are on the positive end, do you point to the growth with a hope for a PER of 13 - 15 his junior year in the league?

I thought Vassell played very well, especially towards the end of the year, and his PER for year 2 was 13.3. I'm not the hugest fan of PER, because it is massively offense biased.

[R. DeMurre]

I thought Vassell played very well, especially towards the end of the year, and his PER for year 2 was 13.3. I'm not the hugest fan of PER, because it is massively offense biased.


Agreed. It's also biased towards bigs who shoot high FG%s, even if those shots are mostly rare selective ones around the basket, and who grab rebounds. The anomalies in the top tier of PER are almost always these types: right now, that's guys like Montrezl Harrell, Hassan Whiteside, JaVale McGee, Isaiah Hartenstein-- all decent role players but certainly not better than guys they're ahead of in PER like Jayson Tatum, Steph Curry, and Chris Paul.


I remember one time the glitch of elite efficiency vs practical impact really stuck out to me was when Jose Calderon was making a run at the all time record for most consecutive free throws made, in 2009. He shot an incredible 98% from the FT line that year, but also only averaged a hair over 2 FTA per game. It was interesting watching him do his thing that year, but it was also clear that a guy who shoots 8 free throws a game at 80% is actually accomplishing more for his team than Calderon was shooting 2.3 free throws a game at 98%. Calderon was the best FT shooter in the league that year, but there were easily 50 players who were more impactful FT shooters-- all with lower FT%s-- than he was, even though he was doing something that was literally historic from a statistical standpoint.

[Spurs Homer]

Primo has a bright future, relax…

[Atl Spur]

Your point is valid in that Spurs rookies are often held back or limited moreso than rookies on other teams. However, Primo regressed as the year went on.

As to your question, TP showed explosiveness and a grit that I haven't seen yet from Josh. He'll do better next year so as you say, time will tell. Just think there will be a cap to his improvement once he starts making it that will limit him below all-star level.

Josh has skills Tp didn’t possess also…. Let’s take a breath and see what the kid has.

[rjv]

kid is young even by today's NBA standards. I'm going to sit back and see how he develops.

[rascal]

Josh has skills Tp didn’t possess also…. Let’s take a breath and see what the kid has.

Parker is a Hall of Famer.

Primo will be lucky to be good enough to make the all star team.

[Atl Spur]

Parker is a Hall of Famer.

Primo will be lucky to be good enough to make the all star team.

Sir, he didn’t start off an hall of famer…… get it together! Do better and stay within context.

[lefty20]

Gonna give the lad a couple years b4 writing him off completely.

I'm definitely looking forward to seeing him next year with a bit more freedom on the offensive end. Idk if it was a confidence issue due or instructions form the coaching staff, but he'd completely abandoned that step back J that he'd showcased in SL and G-League.

[rascal]

Sir, he didn’t start off an hall of famer…… get it together! Do better and stay within context.

Parker had a better first year and showed the skills to be much better, Primo doesn't.

[Atl Spur]

Parker had a better first year and showed the skills to be much better, Primo doesn't.

That may be true but you are getting off task; just let kid grow at his own pace.

[rjv]

Parker had a better first year and showed the skills to be much better, Primo doesn't.

parker, for all intensive purposes, had also been playing professional basketball since he was 15 so i wouldn't compare primo to parker at all.

[bluebellmaniac]

parker, for all intensive purposes, had also been playing professional basketball since he was 15 so i wouldn't compare primo to parker at all.

Summary: All Intents and Purposes or All Intensive Purposes? The correct phrase here is always “all intents and purposes,” meaning “in every practical sense.” And while some people say or write “all intensive purposes,” this is always a mistake!
Apr 8, 2020

Just FYI

[rjv]

Summary: All Intents and Purposes or All Intensive Purposes? The correct phrase here is always “all intents and purposes,” meaning “in every practical sense.” And while some people say or write “all intensive purposes,” this is always a mistake!
Apr 8, 2020

Just FYI

yeah, it's what an i phone's 'auto-correct' will do to you when you can't text for crap and are too lazy to fix an error. it's probably the same reason that i rarely use upper case letters.

[emanueldavidginobili]

1539342663845040128

Sean goes, is he really 6’4? I’m almost 6’9..lol Sean loves Primo

[Atl Spur]

1539342663845040128

Sean goes, is he really 6’4? I’m almost 6’9..lol Sean loves Primo

Most that understand basketball does��������. He’ll be fine����

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5o01mVRya0g

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIeBt_C-ZMo

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfpGL4JlCTc

[slick'81]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfpGL4JlCTc

dejounte better be looking over his shoulder :wow

[KingKev]

dejounte better be looking over his shoulder :wow

Haha you mean LBJ. I remember when we drafted him his open growth plates had some projecting a 6’7/6’8 point forward but a year later he is firmly 6’4 LOL

[slick'81]

Haha you mean LBJ. I remember when we drafted him his open growth plates had some projecting a 6’7/6’8 point forward but a year later he is firmly 6’4 LOL


lol, the hope he would magically become a 6'8 sf was extremely laughable

[KingKev]

lol, the hope he would magically become a 6'8 sf was extremely laughable

It’ll be interesting to see at the end of the 2022-23 season where he stacks up against Branham and Wesley.

If he actually could develop into a true pG that would be great but I don’t see it at all.

[slick'81]

It’ll be interesting to see at the end of the 2022-23 season where he stacks up against Branham and Wesley.

If he actually could develop into a true pG that would be great but I don’t see it at all.

im not giving up on him like alot here. Still i never heard the words growth plates before spurs drafted primo suave.I wont regret my primo jersey purchase yet

[KingKev]

im not giving up on him like alot here. Still i never heard the words growth plates before spurs drafted primo suave.I wont regret my primo jersey purchase yet

I’m known as a Primo hater in here but it’s more just managing expectations. I still think he becomes a contributing role
player in the league eventually.

[Vince Carter's ankle]

Haha you mean LBJ. I remember when we drafted him his open growth plates had some projecting a 6’7/6’8 point forward but a year later he is firmly 6’4 LOL
Why write an obvious lie? He was 6'5" in Alabama and now he's 6'6".

[Atl Spur]

Why write an obvious lie? He was 6'5" in Alabama and now he's 6'6".

One word…….ATTENTION.

[exstatic]

It’s not impossible for him to STILL grow. David Robinson grew 7 inches between 20 and 22. Open growth plates don’t mean that he WILL grow, but he could, though.

[Atl Spur]

It’s not impossible for him to STILL grow. David Robinson grew 7 inches between 20 and 22. Open growth plates don’t mean that he WILL grow, but he could, though.

Don’t waste your time…….

[KingKev]

Why write an obvious lie? He was 6'5" in Alabama and now he's 6'6".

With shoes.

His official height, shoeless (the official standard of the NBA) as measured by an MD is 6’4.

Sit down.

[Vince Carter's ankle]

With shoes.

His official height, shoeless (the official standard of the NBA) as measured by an MD is 6’4.

Sit down.
Sorry. Basketball is usually played without shoes. I forget every time

[Gagnrath]

lol, the hope he would magically become a 6'8 sf was extremely laughable
Oh I agree on that a lot, that said I still hope he goes from 6'4" to 6'5" or 6'6" he's 19 about to be 20 it's fairly common for guys to get another inch or two between 18 and 24. That said pro athletes tend to be fairly early bloomers. (tend for aau and traveling teams it's not a for certain but tend to be.)

[emanueldavidginobili]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfpGL4JlCTc
Nice highlights, granted they're against G league players but still better competition than D1 where he probably should have been last year. I was one of the posters that were advocating Pop to throw Primo in the fire and he did, and looked terrible and overmatched, still think it was beneficial to get him out there and start some games and travel with the team. Going to be a lot of competition this year he's going to have to earn the PT. Summer league is 2 weeks away, let's see if he stands out over the 3 rooks.

[Ice009]

It’s not impossible for him to STILL grow. David Robinson grew 7 inches between 20 and 22. Open growth plates don’t mean that he WILL grow, but he could, though.

Is that when D-Rob was still in College? I remember reading he wanted to serve his time with Navy, so I don't know what year he was drafted? I assume he grew before getting drafted? I would also love to know what he was eating/doing those two years that he grew 7 inches.

[Atl Spur]

Josh will probably grow some more��������

[emanueldavidginobili]

It’s not impossible for him to STILL grow. David Robinson grew 7 inches between 20 and 22. Open growth plates don’t mean that he WILL grow, but he could, though.
He also grew 10 inches in one year from his junior season to senior season, dude was a freak.

[KingKev]

It’s not impossible for him to STILL grow. David Robinson grew 7 inches between 20 and 22. Open growth plates don’t mean that he WILL grow, but he could, though.

He had a helluva growth spurt but he was already 7ft by his sophomore season.

[The Truth #6]

In the end, I will trust Pop’s talent evaluation of young players (not veterans) because he’s almost always right in spotting talent early on, but from the outside it seems like a bigger leap compared to prior players Pop prioritized. Saying he sucks or saying he’s fine—either one seems too soon. There’s little to base an opinion on. This next season needs to show improvement, and so there’s some pressure in my opinion.

[GAustex]

Josh will probably grow some more��������
Miss Cleo tell us again of the future

[Vince Carter's ankle]

https://twitter.com/PaulGarciaNBA/status/1541137389237714944 (https://twitter.com/PaulGarciaNBA/status/1541137389237714944)

[Vince Carter's ankle]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FWM4R7yWAAEUBrT?format=png&name=360x360

[Spurs Homer]

Primo is going to shock a lot of people….

not even a tiny doubt!

[KingKev]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FWM4R7yWAAEUBrT?format=png&name=360x360

Excellent cut and pasting. Not even providing the source.

Compare your heights to the official heights listed on NBA.com based on measurements provided by team doctors.

https://www.nba.com/spurs/roster


https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1059631

Vassell is not 6’7