NBA Trade Deadline 2023

[ace3g]

Feb. 9: NBA Trade Deadline (3 p.m. ET)

The Wizards have started trade talks centered on forward Rui Hachimura (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hachiru01.html?utm_medium=linker&utm_source=hoopswire.com&utm_campaign=2023-01-18_bbr) ahead of the Feb. 9 deadline to make a deal, per Shams Charania and Josh Robbins of The Athletic (https://theathletic.com/4103918/2023/01/18/wizards-rui-hachimura-trade-options/).https://i0.wp.com/hoopswire.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/hachimura1222-e1671737473958-300x169.jpg?resize=300%2C169&ssl=1
Hachimura, who is set to become a free agent after the season, is drawing interest from several Western Conference teams, Charania and Robbins reported (https://theathletic.com/4103918/2023/01/18/wizards-rui-hachimura-trade-options/).

[heyheymymy]

Brian Wright is about to make it rain unprotected FRPs, hopefully.

[Robz4000]

Brian Wright is about to make it rain unprotected FRPs, hopefully.

In b4 he trades our '23 pick unprotected for Bryn Forbs.

[CGD]

Makes much more sense for GSW than Jakob tbh

[Mr. Body]

Phoenix sounds off that they're willing to take on long-term salary and use a first round pick. They're in dire straits with their window closing and wallowing in mediocrity.

[CGD]

Phoenix sounds off that they're willing to take on long-term salary and use a first round pick. They're in dire straits with their window closing and wallowing in mediocrity.

That’s interesting. I had written them off because of their complicated management situation. If they are motivated there is a lot to be done there, like dumping Saric onto us for a few distant SRPs or dumping Saric and Crowder (lost cause for them) to us for a future FRP. Lots of tax savings for a team over the line.

[mo7888]

That’s interesting. I had written them off because of their complicated management situation. If they are motivated there is a lot to be done there, like dumping Saric onto us for a few distant SRPs or dumping Saric and Crowder (lost cause for them) to us for a future FRP. Lots of tax savings for a team over the line.

I think they're looking to add talent for this season more than trying to generate tax savings....but either way, reports that they are willing to offer up their first is encouraging for us...the more buyers out there the better..

[Mr. Body]

Yeah, PHX is definitely making a push right now. They need to save their window, although tbh their team chemistry looks pretty bad. At least their ownership isn't a useless cock. Just don't know what they can do to save things.

[Ariel]

If I'm Phoenix, I'd do everything possible to get the most out of Ayton right now, and dumping Saric & getting Poeltl would be a perfect follow up of that. There's not such a large difference in performance as suggested by their perceived trade value. IMO that's their ONE card to play to get back into contention in the short term.

[scott]

If I'm Phoenix, I'd do everything possible to get the most out of Ayton right now, and dumping Saric & getting Poeltl would be a perfect follow up of that. There's not such a large difference in performance as suggested by their perceived trade value. IMO that's their ONE card to play to get back into contention in the short term.

Wonder if Indy still wants Ayton, and if so, how badly.

[Seventyniner]

I like the idea of trying to get Phoenix's first this year. Even if they make a strong run at the end of the season, it could easily be a #21-24 pick instead of the #27-30 you'd expect from a contender.

[JPB]

PHO isn't even in the PO picture as of today. It's not Poetl who would make them a contender. Their window has probably already closed and with the change of ownership (even though Sarver still has some power) not sure they'd really be wiling to go all in, but rather already prepare the future, then keeping their picks.

I don't know.

[Ariel]

PHO isn't even in the PO picture as of today. It's not Poetl who would make them a contender. Their window has probably already closed and with the change of ownership (even though Sarver still has some power) not sure they'd really be wiling to go all in, but rather already preapre the future, then keeping their picks.

I don't know.
It's if Phoenix uses Ayton in a larger deal that could see Poeltl rise as a replacement. I doubt they throw in the towel with most their core (basically everyone other than Chris Paul) in their mid 20s.

[Ariel]

Wonder if Indy still wants Ayton, and if so, how badly.
I suspect the fate of Ayton, Myles Turner and Poeltl could be intertwined, in that a chip moving opens one path for the others, and closes another. We may see all of them moving, or none at all.

[Mr. Body]

PHO isn't even in the PO picture as of today. It's not Poetl who would make them a contender. Their window has probably already closed and with the change of ownership (even though Sarver still has some power) not sure they'd really be wiling to go all in, but rather already prepare the future, then keeping their picks.

I don't know.

They're in the playoff picture. Almost the entire league is hovering around .500.

[mo7888]

It's if Phoenix uses Ayton in a larger deal that could see Poeltl rise as a replacement. I doubt they throw in the towel with most their core (basically everyone other than Chris Paul) in their mid 20s.

Who out there would want Ayton?

[Ariel]

Who out there would want Ayton?
I read rumors about Toronto, Indiana wanted him last offseason, and you never know. There's not a huge market for centers at that price tag, but say Toronto wants to make the most out of VanVleet and/or Gary Trent Jr before losing them in free agency, that could be a viable pathway to Ayton moving. But Poeltl is sort of a middle fish out there, and as such it may take other bigger fish moving first (Ayton, Myles Turner -according to the perception of the market, as it seems-) or smaller ones for those looking for a patch (Ibaka). We may have to wait until the last minute to find out.

[CGD]

Yeah, PHX is definitely making a push right now. They need to save their window, although tbh their team chemistry looks pretty bad. At least their ownership isn't a useless cock. Just don't know what they can do to save things.

If they suddenly talk themselves into a Crowder-Collins swap, I'm sure we can be a dumping ground for whatever filler (Saric, Shatmat etc.) ATL doesn't want to take back for a price.

[mo7888]

I read rumors about Toronto, Indiana wanted him last offseason, and you never know. There's not a huge market for centers at that price tag, but say Toronto wants to make the most out of VanVleet and/or Gary Trent Jr before losing them in free agency, that could be a viable pathway to Ayton moving. But Poeltl is sort of a middle fish out there, and as such it may take other bigger fish moving first (Ayton, Myles Turner -according to the perception of the market, as it seems-) or smaller ones for those looking for a patch (Ibaka). We may have to wait until the last minute to find out.

I could see Toronto...not seeing Indy really... I could also see a contender (or quasi contender) in the east doing something for him but I haven't really given it to much thought.

[mo7888]

If they suddenly talk themselves into a Crowder-Collins swap, I'm sure we can be a dumping ground for whatever filler (Saric, Shatmat etc.) ATL doesn't want to take back for a price.

That's probably more likely than moving Jak there..

[ace3g]

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1436503855861276680/8qzEXb9B_normal.jpg (https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania)Shams Charania (https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania)@ShamsCharania (https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania)




The Milwaukee Bucks and center Serge Ibaka have mutually agreed to find the 14-year NBA veteran a new home via trade as he remains away from the team, sources tell @TheAthletic (https://twitter.com/TheAthletic/) @Stadium (https://twitter.com/Stadium/).

10:14am · 20 Jan 2023 (https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1616469203954929664) · TweetDeck (https://help.twitter.com/en/using-twitter/how-to-tweet#source-labels)

[CGD]

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1436503855861276680/8qzEXb9B_normal.jpg (https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania)Shams Charania (https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania)@ShamsCharania (https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania)




The Milwaukee Bucks and center Serge Ibaka have mutually agreed to find the 14-year NBA veteran a new home via trade as he remains away from the team, sources tell @TheAthletic (https://twitter.com/TheAthletic/) @Stadium (https://twitter.com/Stadium/).

10:14am · 20 Jan 2023 (https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1616469203954929664) · TweetDeck (https://help.twitter.com/en/using-twitter/how-to-tweet#source-labels)

They can address their shooting needs with Dougie, we buy out Serge. They also send us over Marchon and Ted Cruz’s doppelgänger.

[Ice009]

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1436503855861276680/8qzEXb9B_normal.jpg (https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania)Shams Charania (https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania)@ShamsCharania (https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania)




The Milwaukee Bucks and center Serge Ibaka have mutually agreed to find the 14-year NBA veteran a new home via trade as he remains away from the team, sources tell @TheAthletic (https://twitter.com/TheAthletic/) @Stadium (https://twitter.com/Stadium/).

10:14am · 20 Jan 2023 (https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1616469203954929664) · TweetDeck (https://help.twitter.com/en/using-twitter/how-to-tweet#source-labels)

Why is he away from the team? What has happened?

[timtonymanu]

Suns fans did not know what was in store when they were up 2 - 0 against Milwaukee. Lost that series. Then the following year choke a game 7 and losing by 40. Oh well, they can still bitch about 2007. :lol

[KingKev]

Grant Williams injured again in Boston. Jak’s value appreciating.

[Ariel]

Grant Williams injured again in Boston. Jak’s value appreciating.
Robert Williams, and apparently it's not serious (as much as a knee injury can be "non serious" to someone who seems to be plagued by them).
At this point I am inclined to believe they'll go after someone like Ibaka, but if the scenario worsens for Williams, yes that could make a HUGE difference on Poeltl's value.

[DPG21920]

POR, if they had any assets, would be a great fit for Jak…Nurk sucks and Jak would help them tremendously. I just don’t see a path where they can give SA much. They owe a first to CHI lottery protected for like 4 years, but I guess could do two future firsts…

[KingKev]

Robert Williams, and apparently it's not serious (as much as a knee injury can be "non serious" to someone who seems to be plagued by them).
At this point I am inclined to believe they'll go after someone like Ibaka, but if the scenario worsens for Williams, yes that could make a HUGE difference on Poeltl's value.

Excuse me, meant Robert Williams who has been injury prone

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

POR, if they had any assets, would be a great fit for Jak…Nurk sucks and Jak would help them tremendously. I just don’t see a path where they can give SA much. They owe a first to CHI lottery protected for like 4 years, but I guess could do two future firsts…

They can't trade a single first , the pick they owe Chicago has lottery protections until 2028.

[exstatic]

Robert Williams, and apparently it's not serious (as much as a knee injury can be "non serious" to someone who seems to be plagued by them).
At this point I am inclined to believe they'll go after someone like Ibaka, but if the scenario worsens for Williams, yes that could make a HUGE difference on Poeltl's value.

Ibaka is listed as being 33, but there is some thought that being born in Africa. He may have been much older than his listed draft age. Even in the best case that his age was true, he’s 6 years older than Poeltl. If they’re trying to set up a 4-5 year window, Poeltl is the clear choice.

[Ariel]

Ibaka is listed as being 33, but there is some thought that being born in Africa. He may have been much older than his listed draft age. Even in the best case that his age was true, he’s 6 years older than Poeltl. If they’re trying to set up a 4-5 year window, Poeltl is the clear choice.
However old Ibaka may be, that's not going to be relevant if it's just these upcoming playoffs Boston has in mind, and he'd be much cheaper both in terms of salary and assets to acquire him (probably a dead end 2nd will do). Poeltl only makes sense if they intend to keep him long term, which is why the severity of the injury is key.

[KingKev]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10062591-nba-trade-rumors-spurs-hope-to-keep-jakob-poeltl-despite-center-eyeing-20m-contract

Latest per BR Spurs hoping to keep Jak and he is looking for ~20mm a yr in his next deal. If we could swing a far out unprotected FRP i’d pull the trigger. Two FRPs is a dream.

If there is no deal to be made I’m all for facilitating a sign and trade but giving him a 4yr/80mm deal this summer is risky biz. That might not age well even though we have the cap to spend.

[CGD]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10062591-nba-trade-rumors-spurs-hope-to-keep-jakob-poeltl-despite-center-eyeing-20m-contract

Latest per BR Spurs hoping to keep Jak and he is looking for ~20mm a yr in his next deal

Starting to feel the smartest move is to hold on to him. Order of operations:

- See what happens in the draft
- make him prove he can get the higher offer
- offer to match it and front load his contract
- if no go, explore sign and trade route (Jak will want this too given limited cap teams)
- if still no, sign him with understanding by both they’ll seek to move him next deadline

[CGD]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10062591-nba-trade-rumors-spurs-hope-to-keep-jakob-poeltl-despite-center-eyeing-20m-contract

Latest per BR Spurs hoping to keep Jak and he is looking for ~20mm a yr in his next deal. If we could swing a far out unprotected FRP i’d pull the trigger. Two FRPs is a dream.

If there is no deal to be made I’m all for facilitating a sign and trade but giving him a 4yr/80mm deal this summer is risky biz. That might not age well even though we have the cap to spend.

I do it. One pundit was speculating the new MLE could approach 15M, which puts things in perspective to me. I’d also front load his deal ala Keldon to improve trade appeal later in the deal.

[TD 21]

The corpse of Ibaka isn't sufficient insurance and despite his current state and preference to be traded, I'm not sure the Bucks would want to do so to their primary competition to get out of the East.

The Celtics shouldn't risk throwing away a championship that's theirs for the taking because of pick protections (within' reason) or the unlikelihood of getting Poeltl re-signed.

Their problem is even if they're willing to go lower on protection than any other, the likelihood of it conveying in a commensurate range anytime soon is obviously slim and they lack an expendable secondary asset to grease the wheels.

[exstatic]

Robert Williams, and apparently it's not serious (as much as a knee injury can be "non serious" to someone who seems to be plagued by them).
At this point I am inclined to believe they'll go after someone like Ibaka, but if the scenario worsens for Williams, yes that could make a HUGE difference on Poeltl's value.

I’m not sure the severity of this one Williams injury is the key, just the fact that he’s CONSTANTLY injured, and probably not durable enough for starters duty. If that’s their thinking, there isn’t even a choice between Ibaka and Jakob. You go and get Jak, and move Williams to your bench, creating probably the best 1-2 center combo in the league.

[BackHome]

Yeah, if I am Boston I am going all in who cares about draft picks they all ready got there starters and bench players they set for the next couple of years. Poodle would be a great fit for them and would definitely help them ring it should be a no brainer for them as the strong possibility of several rings

[Ariel]

Robert Williams' injury history is definitely a concern, but also let's not forget they recently made a deal with us with the sole purpose of reducing their tax bill, I'm not sure they're willing to take on Poeltl's salary on top of that, especially when they know he's going to command a hefty sum to keep him. So there are definitely reasons for Boston to go for it (I agree with most of you on that), but also many others keeping them from doing so, which is why I think another serious scare may just be what pushes them over the edge.

[scott]

I wonder about situations like this where the Spurs have created a financial incentive for players to hope the team doesn't do anything to take on salary. They're all staring at a fairly decent bonus if the Spurs can't swing any deals.

[Mr. Body]

Word is Milwaukee has offered four 2nd round picks for Eric Gordon.

Underlines how little teams have by way of 1st round capital. Also suggests what the market looks like.

[exstatic]

Word is Milwaukee has offered four 2nd round picks for Eric Gordon.

Underlines how little teams have by way of 1st round capital. Also suggests what the market looks like.

Well, he’s 34 years old. Unless you’re talking All NBA talent, you’re probably not drawing a FRP at that age.

[scott]

.

[DPG21920]

They can't trade a single first , the pick they owe Chicago has lottery protections until 2028.

I thought so - but was not sure due to the protections if there was a way for them to make future trades based on likelihood for it to convey etc…

[JPB]

Robert Williams' injury history is definitely a concern, but also let's not forget they recently made a deal with us with the sole purpose of reducing their tax bill, I'm not sure they're willing to take on Poeltl's salary on top of that, especially when they know he's going to command a hefty sum to keep him. So there are definitely reasons for Boston to go for it (I agree with most of you on that), but also many others keeping them from doing so, which is why I think another serious scare may just be what pushes them over the edge.

They may have just used an opportunty they saw to reduce their tax bill without hurting the overall quality of the team, or even so a potential, future costly move hurt a little less financially.

[Seventyniner]

I thought so - but was not sure due to the protections if there was a way for them to make future trades based on likelihood for it to convey etc…

Trading a first with lots of protections/rollover clauses could be a genius way for a GM to stop himself from making dumb trades in the future. Kind of like playing a game of chicken then ripping your steering wheel off and waving it out the window.

[exstatic]

Trading a first with lots of protections/rollover clauses could be a genius way for a GM to stop himself from making dumb trades in the future. Kind of like playing a game of chicken then ripping your steering wheel off and waving it out the window.

The standard, and most common, is a three year window, with 2 seconds being the booby prize if it doesn’t convey. Turns out we got VERY lucky getting that Toronto FRP last year, since the window of two years was shorter than usual, and they just suck this year.

The CHA pick is a three year window, as is the CHI pick, although the window on that pick is kind of fluid. Depending on when, or if they convey a FRP to Orlando, it could convey as early as 2025 if they convey the pick to Orlando this year or don’t convey a FRP, or as late as 2028 if CHI keeps their pick this year by jumping into the top 4, but conveys it to ORL in 2024, starting our 3 year clock in 2026.

[RC_Drunkford]

Ibaka is at least 37

[Ariel]

The CHA pick is a three year window
The Charlotte pick has a very narrow window of 2 years at best, as it's impossible for them to make the top 16 this year. It'd take a miracle for them to put together a playoff team next year, unless they land Wemby, Bridges returns, and Lamelo breaks out. Also they've made it known they're taking offers for pretty much their entire roster (sans a few youngsters), so they're closer to a rebuild than anything else. We have a very, very small chance of ever landing that pick in the 1st round.

[mo7888]

Lakers working to finalize a trade with the Wiz for Rai Hach

Wow

Nunn + 3 2nds

[Ariel]

Good for the Lakers. Not so much for us.

[InRareForm]

That's a lot of missed out diamond in the rough possible picks for the Lakers

[Dejounte]

They gave up nothing for Rui. Not that Rui is all that great, he’s basically a reclamation project similar to KBD right now. He’s a tweener whose ceiling now is as a role player because of his liability on defense while being old school on offense. Lakers will probably play him like they did wth Melo.

[Ariel]

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1617584801686650881

Finalized deal: Rui Hachimura for Kendrick Nunn, 2023 second via Chicago, 2029 LA second and and less favorable of 2028 Washington/LA seconds, sources tell ESPN.
1617584801686650881

[Ariel]

They gave up nothing for Rui. Not that Rui is all that great, he’s basically a reclamation project similar to KBD right now. He’s a tweener whose ceiling now is as a role player because of his liability on defense while being old school on offense. Lakers will probably play him like they did wth Melo.
He's still a project, but he's younger and much better than KBD. A young PF who can shoot and has upside is a step in the right direction for the Lakers. And most 2nd rounders they gave up are not that good either.

[Seventyniner]

The standard, and most common, is a three year window, with 2 seconds being the booby prize if it doesn’t convey. Turns out we got VERY lucky getting that Toronto FRP last year, since the window of two years was shorter than usual, and they just suck this year.

The CHA pick is a three year window, as is the CHI pick, although the window on that pick is kind of fluid. Depending on when, or if they convey a FRP to Orlando, it could convey as early as 2025 if they convey the pick to Orlando this year or don’t convey a FRP, or as late as 2028 if CHI keeps their pick this year by jumping into the top 4, but conveys it to ORL in 2024, starting our 3 year clock in 2026.

Another non-standard way to stop yourself from making dumb trades could be to do the three-year window but in every other season instead of consecutive seasons.

Let's say a team has all their own firsts, with none going out and none coming in for the next seven years. They could trade a 2024 protected 1-16 first that becomes a 2026 protected 1-14 first if not conveyed in 2024, and a 2028 protected 1-14 first if not conveyed in 2026, that becomes a 2nd or two if the 2028 first doesn't convey. That would prevent the team from trading any more first round picks at all until the 2023 draft, when the 2030 first could be traded, unless they acquire another first elsewhere.

[exstatic]

The Charlotte pick has a very narrow window of 2 years at best, as it's impossible for them to make the top 16 this year. It'd take a miracle for them to put together a playoff team next year, unless they land Wemby, Bridges returns, and Lamelo breaks out. Also they've made it known they're taking offers for pretty much their entire roster (sans a few youngsters), so they're closer to a rebuild than anything else. We have a very, very small chance of ever landing that pick in the 1st round.

If they don’t make the playoffs (conveying their pick to us) in the next two years, LaMelo is gone. That probably keeps their GM awake at night.

They’ll have a lottery pick this year, and are in negotiations with Bridges to get him signed and serving his inevitable suspension, but he will probably be back next year.

[KingKev]

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1617584801686650881

1617584801686650881

Damn Washington giving reparations to Lakers for the Russ trade :rollin

Maybe Massai can do similar for us in a Jak trade

[exstatic]

Damn Washington giving reparations to Lakers for the Russ trade :rollin

Maybe Massai can do similar for us in a Jak trade

If Rui were anything, they wouldn’t have traded him. He’s almost 25, he had one good 3 point shooting season last year, and his per 36 rebounds are 6.3.

[Ariel]

If Rui were anything, they wouldn’t have traded him. He’s almost 25, he had one good 3 point shooting season last year, and his per 36 rebounds are 6.3.
They have a glut at PF, and they had to choose between him or Kuzma. He's got availability issues, but he's shot 35.6% from 3 for his career, and 77.6% from the line. His rebounding numbers are mediocre, but comparable to Tobias Harris, Jimmy Butler, Grant Williams, etc. If he's able to play consistently (big if) he'll be a bargain, if not, well... they just spent 1 decent 2nd rounder (Chicago's, likely in the high 30s this year) and 2 likely bad ones far away. Very low risk, potentially high reward.

[Mr. Body]

A front court of Thomas Bryant and Rui Hachimura might have some scoring capability, but are awful defensively. This seems like a fairly good pick-up for the Lakers, although Rui is hardly a world-beater. I doubt there's any 'high reward' to this scenario but it helps. Also suggests that there wasn't a huge market for him; getting three 2nds is alright I suppose.

[CGD]

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1617584801686650881

1617584801686650881

Good deal for LAL. Don’t dislike for WAS either since those picks should be ok

[TD 21]

^ I knew the Lakers would target "second draft"/young veteran players, who have team control or an easy pathway to it, with lesser picks.

For a team as bereft of size and athleticism at forward and youth in general as they are, Hachimura is worth a shot, even if he probably tops out as a flawed 7th man.

Wizards must feel confident in re-signing Kuzma, otherwise they quickly become thin at forward.

[heyheymymy]

Yeah Malaki the Miracle Branham then because I remember watching those TOR and BOS picks crystalizing last year and it was a total rollercoaster. Why I hate pick protections, what conveys could end up being an entirely different value 2RPs are a far cry from what was initially a FRP.

Was awesome seeing #20 and #25 fall into place but I seem to recall BOS costing us some slots/value with the end of their season. Wasn't it possible that BOS could've been as good as ~#21ish instead and it was a flukey win or coin flip in the end? And of course TOR flirting with keeping theirs as well, doing just enough to ultimately convey to SA in the end.

[Ariel]

Yeah Malaki the Miracle Branham then because I remember watching those TOR and BOS picks crystalizing last year and it was a total rollercoaster. Why I hate pick protections, what conveys could end up being an entirely different value 2RPs are a far cry from what was initially a FRP.

Was awesome seeing #20 and #25 fall into place but I seem to recall BOS costing us some slots/value with the end of their season. Wasn't it possible that BOS could've been as good as ~#21ish instead and it was a flukey win or coin flip in the end? And of course TOR flirting with keeping theirs as well, doing just enough to ultimately convey to SA in the end.
Toronto ended up tied with Denver for the 20th record, and Boston tied for 23rd with Philadelphia & Milwaukee. Toronto (20) won the tiebreaker with Denver (21), while Boston (25) lost to Philly (23) & Milwaukee (24). I was pissed with Milwaukee gift-wrapping their last game and thus failing to surpass Boston, but ultimately since Roddy & Beauchamp were taken at 23 & 24, it's safe to assume those tiebreakers ended up costing us nothing.

[Mr. Body]

Toronto ended up tied with Denver for the 20th record, and Boston tied for 23rd with Philadelphia & Milwaukee. Toronto (20) won the tiebreaker with Denver (21), while Boston (25) lost to Philly (23) & Milwaukee (24). I was pissed with Milwaukee gift-wrapping their last game and thus failing to surpass Boston, but ultimately since Roddy & Beauchamp were taken at 23 & 24, it's safe to assume those tiebreakers ended up costing us nothing.

Good analysis. Blake Wesley is a big swing, but I'd rather have him than Roddy and Beauchamp.

[jjspur]

The lakers don't have much left as far as draft picks. My guess is that when they eventually trade Lebum to some sucker team with extra assets or cap space, they'll get some picks back.

[Ariel]

The lakers don't have much left as far as draft picks. My guess is that when they eventually trade Lebum to some sucker team with extra assets or cap space, they'll get some picks back.
Actually they have plenty of picks:
'23: New Orleans' (via swap)
'24: own / none (New Orleans choice to take it or defer to '25)
'25: own / none (depending on whether New Orleans defers '24 or not)
'26: own
'27: own
'28: own
'29: own
So basically they have 6 1st round picks in the next 7 drafts, it's just that people get the idea they have little because a lot of them can't be traded per the Stepien rule (2 at most: '27 & '29).
But for instance they could wait till draft day, arrange the drafting of a certain player with a given team, and then trade them his rights, plus '27 & '29 unprotected picks, plus '26 & '28 unprotected swaps, plus 4 2nd rounders. That's basically 2 unprotected picks + 1 protected picks + 2 unprotected swaps + 4 second rounders to trade at their will, way more than we got for Dejounte.

[Leetonidas]

Actually they have plenty of picks:
'23: New Orleans' (via swap)
'24: own / none (New Orleans choice to take it or defer to '25)
'25: own / none (depending on whether New Orleans defers '24 or not)
'26: own
'27: own
'28: own
'29: own
So basically they have 6 1st round picks in the next 7 drafts, it's just that people get the idea they have little because a lot of them can't be traded per the Stepien rule (2 at most: '27 & '29).
But for instance they could wait till draft day, arrange the drafting of a certain player with a given team, and then trade them his rights, plus '27 & '29 unprotected picks, plus '26 & '28 unprotected swaps, plus 4 2nd rounders. That's basically 2 unprotected picks + 1 protected picks + 2 unprotected swaps + 4 second rounders to trade at their will, way more than we got for Dejounte.

This is why I don't get why they're so reluctant to trade the 27 and 29 firsts. It's not like they don't have picks. When you have LeBron and AD you go all in. Their FO has been pretty inept, way worse than SA

[KingKev]

This is why I don't get why they're so reluctant to trade the 27 and 29 firsts. It's not like they don't have picks. When you have LeBron and AD you go all in. Their FO has been pretty inept, way worse than SA

Tough to trust AD’s health and LBJ at all so I don’t think they actually care to mortgage the future.

[MultiTroll]

Lamers out of the Poodle pursuit?

They were never gonna give shit anyways. Try to peddle Westchuck for Poodle and McForbesbot.

[Leetonidas]

Tough to trust AD’s health and LBJ at all so I don’t think they actually care to mortgage the future.

They just resigned bron and AD to extensions recently didn't they? What's the point of treading water while they're still there taking up most of the cap? Spending the assets to get them some legit help would allow their fragile stars more rest throughout the season.

[Mr. Body]

Actually they have plenty of picks:
'23: New Orleans' (via swap)
'24: own / none (New Orleans choice to take it or defer to '25)
'25: own / none (depending on whether New Orleans defers '24 or not)
'26: own
'27: own
'28: own
'29: own
So basically they have 6 1st round picks in the next 7 drafts, it's just that people get the idea they have little because a lot of them can't be traded per the Stepien rule (2 at most: '27 & '29).
But for instance they could wait till draft day, arrange the drafting of a certain player with a given team, and then trade them his rights, plus '27 & '29 unprotected picks, plus '26 & '28 unprotected swaps, plus 4 2nd rounders. That's basically 2 unprotected picks + 1 protected picks + 2 unprotected swaps + 4 second rounders to trade at their will, way more than we got for Dejounte.

Also open up some good cap space this summer, I believe. They're not in horrible shape, but need to make good decisions with what they have, which hasn't been their forte lately. And LeBron is more up his son's butt lately than anything.

[exstatic]

Yeah Malaki the Miracle Branham then because I remember watching those TOR and BOS picks crystalizing last year and it was a total rollercoaster. Why I hate pick protections, what conveys could end up being an entirely different value 2RPs are a far cry from what was initially a FRP.

Was awesome seeing #20 and #25 fall into place but I seem to recall BOS costing us some slots/value with the end of their season. Wasn't it possible that BOS could've been as good as ~#21ish instead and it was a flukey win or coin flip in the end? And of course TOR flirting with keeping theirs as well, doing just enough to ultimately convey to SA in the end.

There was discussion after the draft that all 3 picks had been inside the Spurs draft board top20, so Bostons finishing Kick could be viewed as irrelevant.

[jjspur]

Actually they have plenty of picks:
'23: New Orleans' (via swap)
'24: own / none (New Orleans choice to take it or defer to '25)
'25: own / none (depending on whether New Orleans defers '24 or not)
'26: own
'27: own
'28: own
'29: own
So basically they have 6 1st round picks in the next 7 drafts, it's just that people get the idea they have little because a lot of them can't be traded per the Stepien rule (2 at most: '27 & '29).
But for instance they could wait till draft day, arrange the drafting of a certain player with a given team, and then trade them his rights, plus '27 & '29 unprotected picks, plus '26 & '28 unprotected swaps, plus 4 2nd rounders. That's basically 2 unprotected picks + 1 protected picks + 2 unprotected swaps + 4 second rounders to trade at their will, way more than we got for Dejounte.

What I meant to say was that they don't have a lot of picks within Lebron's window which is 1 within the next 3 years or so. With 2 out the next 3 lakers likely 1st round picks , the pelicans are doing quite well. Who knows what the lakers will be like 4 plus years from now and what their picks will be worth, but the media sure makes it seem really really valuable . But that's the media who's always tend to favor the lakers.

[Ariel]

What I meant to say was that they don't have a lot of picks within Lebron's window which is 1 within the next 3 years or so. With 2 out the next 3 lakers likely 1st round picks , the pelicans are doing quite well. Who knows what the lakers will be like 4 plus years from now and what their picks will be worth, but the media sure makes it seem really really valuable . But that's the media who's always tend to favor the lakers.
You're missing the point. Whether the picks are far into the future is irrelevant (aren't OKC's or ours for that matter?), as they're not planning on building a contender through the draft. If the Lakers so choose they could trade a pretty significant package of 2 unprotected picks + 2 unprotected swaps + 4 second rounders RIGHT NOW. They don't have to wait one second, and YES, that's a pretty valuable package, better than the one that Dejounte got us. And in 5 months you can add one more pick to that (NO's pick, which they cannot trade directly but can draft a player and trade his rights after draft day). They're just extra cautious in light of how the recent blockbusters they made (AD & Westbrook) ended up. But I fully expect them to use those in case a true star is available, like say KD (don't think that'll be enough, but if things go sour for the Nets, who knows).

[jjspur]

You're missing the point. Whether the picks are far into the future is irrelevant (aren't OKC's or ours for that matter?), as they're not planning on building a contender through the draft. If the Lakers so choose they could trade a pretty significant package of 2 unprotected picks + 2 unprotected swaps + 4 second rounders RIGHT NOW. They don't have to wait one second, and YES, that's a pretty valuable package, better than the one that Dejounte got us. And in 5 months you can add one more pick to that (NO's pick, which they cannot trade directly but can draft a player and trade his rights after draft day). They're just extra cautious in light of how the recent blockbusters they made (AD & Westbrook) ended up. But I fully expect them to use those in case a true star is available, like say KD (don't think that'll be enough, but if things go sour for the Nets, who knows).

I don't disagree with anything you've said, but lets focus on what I wrote.
The Pelicans have a swap with the the lakers which they will exercise. That's one first the lakers wont have.
In 2024 or 2025 the pelicans have another of the lakers picks. That's another pick the lakers wont have. That's 2 of the next 3 picks. Oh yeah and in 3 years Lebron will be over 40 years old. End of story. That's all my point was.

Everything else, you're right and I don't disagree with it.

[scott]

I don't disagree with anything you've said, but lets focus on what I wrote.
The Pelicans have a swap with the the lakers which they will exercise. That's one first the lakers wont have.
In 2024 or 2025 the pelicans have another of the lakers picks. That's another pick the lakers wont have. That's 2 of the next 3 picks. Oh yeah and in 3 years Lebron will be over 40 years old. End of story. That's all my point was.

Everything else, you're right and I don't disagree with it.

The will have a pick though, the Pelican's pick. So they will still have a first rounder incoming this offseason (unless they trade said player). They're only missing 1 FRP over the next 3 years, not 2.

[scott]

Can't figure out how to embed tweets anymore... but apparently someone has offered 3 FRPs for OG Anunoby

https://twitter.com/RaptorsRumorsTO/status/1617880414831652867?s=20&t=hspwpRONjcMD_gQHYkZW5Q

[lmbebo]

Can't figure out how to embed tweets anymore... but apparently someone has offered 3 FRPs for OG Anunoby

https://twitter.com/RaptorsRumorsTO/status/1617880414831652867?s=20&t=hspwpRONjcMD_gQHYkZW5Q


Saw that, but I think its probably toronto trying to drive up interest in OG

[Leetonidas]

Can't figure out how to embed tweets anymore... but apparently someone has offered 3 FRPs for OG Anunoby

https://twitter.com/RaptorsRumorsTO/status/1617880414831652867?s=20&t=hspwpRONjcMD_gQHYkZW5Q

Bet it's one of NY, OKC, or NOLA. They all have a number of picks and might be thinking OG puts them over the top (NOLA) or will help make a serious playoff run (OKC, NY)

[KingKev]

3 FRPs (depending on the protection) is a very fair deal for OG for both sides. Similar value to Dejounte makes sense.

He holds an intriguing skillset and could probably take a leap on a team that wanted to utilize him differently.

[lmbebo]

3 FRPs (depending on the protection) is a very fair deal for OG for both sides. Similar value to Dejounte makes sense.

He holds an intriguing skillset and could probably take a leap on a team that wanted to utilize him differently.

3 FRPs sounds high personally. But then again, we want 2 for Poetl...

[KingKev]

3 FRPs sounds high personally. But then again, we want 2 for Poetl...

He is a 25y/o, rock solid, 2way wing who has the ability to expand his offensive game with more touches. It takes 3 FRPs to find a guy like this.

[lmbebo]

He is a 25y/o, rock solid, 2way wing who has the ability to expand his offensive game with more touches. It takes 3 FRPs to find a guy like this.

He's whatever people are willing to pay to obtain him. If no one trades 3 FRPs for him, then he's not worth it. If someone does the trade, then he's worth it.

[Degoat]

Call me crazy… But OG is overhyped af imo. Maybe I’m bias but who would you rather have OG or Keldon? Reason I ask nobody would even come close to offering the same deal of 3 first rounders for Keldon.

[Ariel]

He is a 25y/o, rock solid, 2way wing who has the ability to expand his offensive game with more touches. It takes 3 FRPs to find a guy like this.
The devil is in the details... say you have multiple protected first rounders from different teams, like NY. Then if you take into account the time it takes for those picks to convey, the fact that they're capped and you don't know how low those picks would be, that even if they're good picks (say mid first round) there are no guarantees that they'd pan out, and even if they pan out it may take a while, then 3 1sts it doesn't sound unreasonable at all.

On the other hand, if we're talking far out, unprotected picks of the same team, which happens to have a history of bad decisions and short term goals, then I wouldn't be so comfortable because you can't predict that far into the future. This sounds kind of excessive considering OG has yet to make the leap, not only has he not made the AS team, he's the third or fourth best player on a team that's lottery bound (after Siakam, VanVleet & Scottie Barnes IMO).

So IMO it's all contingent on the fine print. 3 first is ok, but I wouldn't do 3 far out, unprotected first for him.

[Mr. Body]

Call me crazy… But OG is overhyped af imo. Maybe I’m bias but who would you rather have OG or Keldon? Reason I ask nobody would even come close to offering the same deal of 3 first rounders for Keldon.

I would want Anunoby, but then Keldon just isn't that good. Anunoby is definitely overrated, but a good, dynamic wing could push any of these mediocre contending teams over the top. If he's getting 3 first rounders, though... The market is weird.

[KingKev]

Call me crazy… But OG is overhyped af imo. Maybe I’m bias but who would you rather have OG or Keldon? Reason I ask nobody would even come close to offering the same deal of 3 first rounders for Keldon.

OG hands down. Not even a question. Depends on protections but Keldon would only fetch 2 FRPs because he is starting a fair/friendly contract.

[mo7888]

Call me crazy… But OG is overhyped af imo. Maybe I’m bias but who would you rather have OG or Keldon? Reason I ask nobody would even come close to offering the same deal of 3 first rounders for Keldon.

Very little difference on offense... OG gets it on D.....

Not a huge overall difference though ..

[KingKev]

Very little difference on offense... OG gets it on D.....

Not a huge overall difference though ..

Difference on O is Keldon has been handed the keys. Swap both and OG would look pretty damn good I bet.

[KingKev]

Sounds like Raps want 3 unprotecteds so that isn’t going to happen.

[DPG21920]

He is a 25y/o, rock solid, 2way wing who has the ability to expand his offensive game with more touches. It takes 3 FRPs to find a guy like this.

I have doubts he can be as offensively gifted as Dejounte, but he’s still solid and is a great defender so is what it is. Costs a lot for good players like him, Dejounte etc…

You’d think though people would have some pauses on trading 3+ picks for players given we have seen ATL make zero leap after obtaining DJ and Minny make zero leap after paying up for Rudy….

Ya, CLE worked out solid with Mitchell but that is a guy we knew for sure was an offensive engine. Is OG? That is the difference

[KingKev]

I have doubts he can be as offensively gifted as Dejounte, but he’s still solid and is a great defender so is what it is. Costs a lot for good players like him, Dejounte etc…

You’d think though people would have some pauses on trading 3+ picks for players given we have seen ATL make zero leap after obtaining DJ and Minny make zero leap after paying up for Rudy….

Ya, CLE worked out solid with Mitchell but that is a guy we knew for sure was an offensive engine. Is OG? That is the difference

Totally agree. I wouldn’t pay that unless I was on the cusp of something and needed a solid two way wing.

[Ariel]

Also, OG has one year left in his contract (actually 2, but the last one is PO and he won't opt in), and he's looking for a bigger role and paycheck. I'd think twice before rejecting a really good offer if I were Toronto.

[CGD]

OG would be awesome here, but he’s not within our time cycle right now.

If we already had our Pg of the future, like a Scoot, then I say go for it, but right now there are too many other needs.

[The Truth #6]

Old news, but I would have liked OG in that Kawhi trade somehow. Though Yak has been solid. But OG is a position every team needs.

[mo7888]

Difference on O is Keldon has been handed the keys. Swap both and OG would look pretty damn good I bet.

It's possible bit I don't believe OG has the mentality to do anything much if he has the keys....he doesn't seem as aggressive as KJ to me....but until he gets a shot it's just a theory...so..

[PhantomDashCam]

Can't figure out how to embed tweets anymore... but apparently someone has offered 3 FRPs for OG Anunoby

https://twitter.com/RaptorsRumorsTO/status/1617880414831652867?s=20&t=hspwpRONjcMD_gQHYkZW5Q

As an example, To embed just delete everything else except the number string (which I’ve bolded as an example) after pasting into the twitter reply button.

[Ariel]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10062779-nba-insider-notebook-trade-buzz-around-trail-blazers-john-collins-celtics-more

The struggling Portland Trail Blazers are intensely engrossed in improving the roster with the trade deadline approaching, and they are said to be listening to all overtures, league sources tell Bleacher Report.
The organization remains committed to being opportunistic and creative in trying to surround franchise star Damian Lillard with a roster capable of competing with the best.
There are no plans to tank this season, sources say.
I didn't put much stock into the Poeltl to the Blazers rumor, but even though there's no direct confirmation on it, they seem to be proactive in making (unspecified) deals, so who knows...

[jjspur]

The will have a pick though, the Pelican's pick. So they will still have a first rounder incoming this offseason (unless they trade said player). They're only missing 1 FRP over the next 3 years, not 2.

I always credit people when they are correct and in this case you are correct, however the pelicans will have the better of their picks and the lakers picks because of the swaps. its not that they don't have picks, its that the lakers will likely get the worse of the picks. Details are important and i appreciate that you and Ariel actually know you stuff rather than just spewing out opinionated nonsense. Thanks.
know your stuff,

[Seventyniner]

The more buyers the better.

[DPG21920]

My guess:

Josh Richardson definitely moved. Jak & Doug possible but stay. Would love to see Josh and Doug moved and Jak if we get a great unprotected first or two firsts.

[exstatic]

Saw that, but I think its probably toronto trying to drive up interest in OG

Could also be NY being NY.

[KingKev]

Blazers have been very loose with trades last few years…

B Wright had his chastity belt removed last deadline, maybe he can work some more magic.

[exstatic]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10062779-nba-insider-notebook-trade-buzz-around-trail-blazers-john-collins-celtics-more

I didn't put much stock into the Poeltl to the Blazers rumor, but even though there's no direct confirmation on it, they seem to be proactive in making (unspecified) deals, so who knows...

They literally don’t have a FRP, let alone two, that they can trade for Poeltl. They made a trade with CHI, and it has a 6 year window, lottery protected. It can convey any time from 2023 to 2028, so they can’t even trade a 2029 FRP at the deadline.

[JPB]

Can't figure out how to embed tweets anymore... but apparently someone has offered 3 FRPs for OG Anunoby

https://twitter.com/RaptorsRumorsTO/status/1617880414831652867?s=20&t=hspwpRONjcMD_gQHYkZW5Q

When you post or reply: Go advanced, then click the little blue bird, then insert the tweet link. You can get a tweet link by right clicking on its date on the bottom left of the tweet then clicking "copy link adress"...

[TD 21]

I get it: Virtually everybody needs 3 and D big wings and there's a scarcity of them, but Anunoby has become one of the most overrated players in the league as the Raptors fan boys, as always led by Lowe, are pushing their agenda pretending as if he's a superstar.

Injury prone, offensively limited to spot up shooting or trampling over an undersized defender (which won't happen the second he's no longer on a team with 25 of the same type and gets defended by more like sized types), delusional and can walk after next season.

[Ariel]

They literally don’t have a FRP, let alone two, that they can trade for Poeltl. They made a trade with CHI, and it has a 6 year window, lottery protected. It can convey any time from 2023 to 2028, so they can’t even trade a 2029 FRP at the deadline.
Yeah, I mentioned that before (somewhere), they seem to be shopping Hart and possibly other players as well. So they're definitely not a top candidate for Poeltl, but in a larger deal who knows. A long shot, but still...

[KingKev]

I get it: Virtually everybody needs 3 and D big wings and there's a scarcity of them, but Anunoby has become one of the most overrated players in the league as the Raptors fan boys, as always led by Lowe, are pushing their agenda pretending as if he's a superstar.

Injury prone, offensively limited to spot up shooting or trampling over an undersized defender (which won't happen the second he's no longer on a team with 25 of the same type and gets defended by more like sized types), delusional and can walk after next season.

You have daddy issues :lmao

Massai (your daddy) is just posturing like we are with Jak.

[scott]

As an example, To embed just delete everything else except the number string (which I’ve bolded as an example) after pasting into the twitter reply button.

Yeah, this is what I normally do but it hasn't been working lately.

[TD 21]

You have daddy issues :lmao

Massai (your daddy) is just posturing like we are with Jak.

:lmao Raptors fanboy can't handle the truth.

If that team were as talented as we're always led to believe by hipster nerd media types who are in bed with them, then why do they suck so much? Haven't won a legitimate series in what'll be a half decade and counting after this season.

[Mr. Body]

I get it: Virtually everybody needs 3 and D big wings and there's a scarcity of them, but Anunoby has become one of the most overrated players in the league as the Raptors fan boys, as always led by Lowe, are pushing their agenda pretending as if he's a superstar.

Injury prone, offensively limited to spot up shooting or trampling over an undersized defender (which won't happen the second he's no longer on a team with 25 of the same type and gets defended by more like sized types), delusional and can walk after next season.

I don't see three FRPs. Dejounte got that because he's an All-star and has more of an impact on the game. The market just seems weird.

[exstatic]

I don't see three FRPs. Dejounte got that because he's an All-star and has more of an impact on the game. The market just seems weird.

DJ got 2 unprotected, 1 unprotected swap, and the Charlotte lottery protected pick. If the three picks offered for OG are all protected, that’s not nearly the haul that SA got for DJ.

[ambchang]

I like OG, a lot, but he is not Dejounte level. He is about as good a defender, but on offence DJM is a few notches above OG. This is OG's sixth year, and he is as good as he will be, a versatile defensive wing who can score a few points off catches but can never be anything close to the focal point on offence. The guy finishes OK, but he can't create all that well. Between him and DJM, DJM is by far the better player.

Comparing him to KJ is more reasonable. KJ is younger, but an infinitely worse defender. Both of them should be better as finishers than creators, even though KJ is forced into that role and is showing his limitations.

Giving up 3 FRP unprotected or with limited protection would be idiotic.

[spurraider21]

i like OG but lmao if toronto is actually declining 3 firsts for him, they're insane

[duncan2150]

Imo they never had an offer with 3 picks for OG. Just a strategy to have a good offer for hium.

[Mr. Body]

i like OG but lmao if toronto is actually declining 3 firsts for him, they're insane

Smells like Toronto dropping rumors about what he's worth.

[exstatic]

Imo they never had an offer with 3 picks for OG. Just a strategy to have a good offer for hium.

OKC gave the Knicks 3 FRPs for the #11 pick in last years draft. It all depends on the picks.

[lmbebo]

Imo they never had an offer with 3 picks for OG. Just a strategy to have a good offer for hium.

That or his agent trying to create a scenario where Toronto feels compelled to move him.

[mo7888]

What about Orlando? They have there own 1st and Chicago's pick (5-30) and a ton of young assets. I don't think Jak interests them with that roster but, I'm not sure they want to add two 1st's either. That may be a place we could do a deal to get that Chicago first....

[scott]

What about Orlando? They have there own 1st and Chicago's pick (5-30) and a ton of young assets. I don't think Jak interests them with that roster but, I'm not sure they want to add two 1st's either. That may be a place we could do a deal to get that Chicago first....

Can a team lotto protect a pick from someone else that is already lotto protected? If Chicago's pick lands on #6, I'm sure they are not going to be eager to just give it away.

In any event, I don't see anything on our team except for MAYBE Devin that would be of interest to Orlando.

[mo7888]

Can a team lotto protect a pick from someone else that is already lotto protected? If Chicago's pick lands on #6, I'm sure they are not going to be eager to just give it away.

In any event, I don't see anything on our team except for MAYBE Devin that would be of interest to Orlando.

I could see Devin, KJ, or future picks in some amalgamation that would interest them. I also think it's most likely that they'd wait to pull the trigger until after the lottery so they know that pick's value. If its 6 for instance they might package it and try and move up for Scoot or Amen.... if it's a spot or two lower or if the team at #2 isn't interested then we might be able to put together an interesting package. ..

I just think they're a team to watch...

[objective]

Maybe the Kings would attach picks to Richaun Holmes to get Richardson or McDermott for their playoff push

McDermott and Sabonis had great chemistry in Indiana, I think they were either #1 or #2 in assist pairings their last season together

[exstatic]

Can a team lotto protect a pick from someone else that is already lotto protected? If Chicago's pick lands on #6, I'm sure they are not going to be eager to just give it away.

In any event, I don't see anything on our team except for MAYBE Devin that would be of interest to Orlando.

Chicago HAS to surrender the pick if it isn’t top 4. Those were the terms of the trade. It’s the reason I think they are low key tanking. R/N, they have a 29.4% chance at top 4 and keeping their pick, and 6.8% chance at Wemby.

[scott]

Chicago HAS to surrender the pick if it isn’t top 4. Those were the terms of the trade. It’s the reason I think they are low key tanking. R/N, they have a 29.4% chance at top 4 and keeping their pick, and 6.8% chance at Wemby.

Understood, my question was more along these lines:

Chicago owes Orlando the pick if it outside the top 4.

Can Orlando turn around and trade that pick with ADDITIONAL protections to the Spurs (as an example), say with top 10 protection.

So, the pick would be: If it is in the top 4, it is Chicago's. If 5-10, it is Orlando's. If outside of the top 10 it is San Antonio's?

Is that allowed? Not advocating this is an actual possibility, just wondering.

[exstatic]

Understood, my question was more along these lines:

Chicago owes Orlando the pick if it outside the top 4.

Can Orlando turn around and trade that pick with ADDITIONAL protections to the Spurs (as an example), say with top 10 protection.

So, the pick would be: If it is in the top 4, it is Chicago's. If 5-10, it is Orlando's. If outside of the top 10 it is San Antonio's?

Is that allowed? Not advocating this is an actual possibility, just wondering.

Gotcha. I think you can repurpose a pick like that. I think the Spurs would want protections for this year, and next, when it turns into SRPs.

What would Orlando want off of our roster?

[Vince Carter's ankle]

So, the pick would be: If it is in the top 4, it is Chicago's. If 5-10, it is Orlando's. If outside of the top 10 it is San Antonio's?
What will the Spurs get if this pick is in the 5-10 range?

[JPB]

Understood, my question was more along these lines:

Chicago owes Orlando the pick if it outside the top 4.

Can Orlando turn around and trade that pick with ADDITIONAL protections to the Spurs (as an example), say with top 10 protection.

So, the pick would be: If it is in the top 4, it is Chicago's. If 5-10, it is Orlando's. If outside of the top 10 it is San Antonio's?

Is that allowed? Not advocating this is an actual possibility, just wondering.

Not sure many teams would agree with a "potential" pick.

[KingKev]

Gotcha. I think you can repurpose a pick like that. I think the Spurs would want protections for this year, and next, when it turns into SRPs.

What would Orlando want off of our roster?

Can’t see them wanting anything outside of Vassell and Keldon.

[exstatic]

Not sure many teams would agree with a "potential" pick.

That’s what any protected pick is.

If we get a similar loose protection on next year’s pick if this one doesn’t convey, it’s no different, and less protected than the Charlotte pick the next two years.

Something like 2023 CHI 1-4, ORL 5-10, SA 11+
2024 CHI 1-3, ORL 4-10, SA 11+

Maybe we split the two SRPs with Orlando if it doesn’t convey. If the pick conveys to ORL, we get two SRPs from them

[exstatic]

Can’t see them wanting anything outside of Vassell and Keldon.

Keldon is almost untradeable by the CBA this year with poison pill provision.

[JeffDuncan]

...
What would Orlando want off of our roster?


There’s a Shakespeare theater in Orlando. They’d want Romeo.

[scott]

Gotcha. I think you can repurpose a pick like that. I think the Spurs would want protections for this year, and next, when it turns into SRPs.

What would Orlando want off of our roster?

I don't think there is any actual deal to be had with Orlando, TBH. I think Vassell is our only true asset that fits their roster and even then it is a stretch. I was just responding to the other person who posited them as a trade partner. I would probably trade Devin for Chicago's Top 4 protected pick this year, but I wouldn't take it if it were Top 10 protected. Really can't see anything else Orlando would want from us.

[scott]

What will the Spurs get if this pick is in the 5-10 range?

In this hypothetical, it would just roll like any other protected pick.

Again, I'm not actually proposing the Spurs do this, just wondering if multi-layered protections like this are even allowed.

If I'm Orlando, I am pretty stoked to have a Top 4 protected pick from another potential lotto team this year to go with their own. Orlando is going to be in a really good spot to reshape their roster around the solid young pieces they already have, either by drafting or trading.

[JPB]

That’s what any protected pick is.

If we get a similar loose protection on next year’s pick if this one doesn’t convey, it’s no different, and less protected than the Charlotte pick the next two years.

Something like 2023 CHI 1-4, ORL 5-10, SA 11+
2024 CHI 1-3, ORL 4-10, SA 11+

Maybe we split the two SRPs with Orlando if it doesn’t convey. If the pick conveys to ORL, we get two SRPs from them

Put like you did, OK. But there was no compensation mentioned in Scott post for the two teams who don't get the pick (maybe that was suggested). Reason why I called it "potential", since two teams would end up with nothing...

[scott]

Put like you did, OK. But there was no compensation mentioned in Scott post for the two teams who don't get the pick (maybe that was suggested). Reason why I called it "potential", since two teams would end up with nothing...

Chicago already what they "get", in Vucivec. Orlando would get whatever we sent them for the pick. If the pick didn't convey to San Antonio, it would roll as negotiated like all other protected picks. There isn't a scenario where a team ends up with nothing... the worst case scenario is when the acquiring team ends up with 2 SRPs. Not really different than any other protected pick regime.

[mo7888]

Keldon is almost untradeable by the CBA this year with poison pill provision.

It works taking back Bamba and one minimum salary on the trade machine I ran it through...

[JPB]

Chicago already what they "get", in Vucivec. Orlando would get whatever we sent them for the pick. If the pick didn't convey to San Antonio, it would roll as negotiated like all other protected picks. There isn't a scenario where a team ends up with nothing... the worst case scenario is when the acquiring team ends up with 2 SRPs. Not really different than any other protected pick regime.

I didn't mean ofc get nothing at all, but in your configuration, that pick looks like a bonus for whoever luck in it, and there isn't a defined compensation for the other two, just what was previously negociated without knowing who will get the pick...

There's no "if this team gets the pick" then "this happens for the other two"... It's kind of "here's the deal" and one of you three get that pick also.

[scott]

I didn't mean ofc get nothing at all, but in your configuration, that pick looks like a bonus for whoever luck in it, and there isn't a defined compensation for the other two, just what was previously negociated without knowing who will get the pick...

There's no "if this team gets the pick" then "this happens for the other two"... It's kind of "here's the deal" and one of you three get that pick also.

That's kind of the nature of protected picks though, isn't it? If Chicago doesn't "luck" into a Top 4, then they are getting no pick. There is nothing more to it than that, as they were already compensated for giving up Pick 5-30.

Likewise for Orlando in this scenario, their protection is for pick 5-10. Anything outside of that, they get nothing, because they already got whatever the Spurs gave to them to get pick 11-30.

I didn't get into whatever the backup protection is, because this is just a hypothetical scenario asked to see if it was even legal.

I'd imagine the protections would be something like what ex suggested, but of course it is all negotiable. Worst case scenario when you're the team on the receiving end of a protected pick (especially a lightly protected pick) is that the team just sneaks into the protections and you end up with a couple of seconds. Orlando could be a ping-pong bounce difference between the #5 pick and some second rounders.

[CGD]

Who says no? Windhorst musing that Suns & Mil still trying to figure out Crowder trade and have been talking to 3rd teams.

MIL: Crowder + Roby
PHX: Richardson + Hill
SAS: Saric + Ibaka+ Nwora + Suns 23FRP + Portland 24SRP (via MIL) + Indy's 25SRP (via MIL)

[mo7888]

Who says no? Windhorst musing that Suns & Mil still trying to figure out Crowder trade and have been talking to 3rd teams.

MIL: Crowder + Roby
PHX: Richardson + Hill
SAS: Saric + Ibaka+ Nwora + Suns 23FRP + Portland 24SRP (via MIL) + Indy's 25SRP (via MIL)

My guess is Phoenix...but from a SA perspective we'd do that I believe..

[JPB]

My guess is Phoenix...but from a SA perspective we'd do that I believe..

I don't think anyone would pass 1 FRP, 2 SRPs + players for Ridcharson as Spurs GM, but such a trade would never exist in the first place.

I understand fans try to imagine trades that make their teams big winners but other teams don't trade to make you happy, which you call yourself if you get even one FRP for ridcharson. Probabilities would say a second, unless someone is really desperate but nobody's desperate nowadays in the NBA.

[mo7888]

I don't think anyone would pass 1 FRP, 2 SRPs + players for Ridcharson as Spurs GM, but such a trade would never exist in the first place.

I understand fans try to imagine trades that make their teams big winners but other teams don't trade to make you happy.

You think Phoenix takes that deal? Giving up a first to get Josh... I mean that'd be great but I don't see it..

[JPB]

You think Phoenix takes that deal? Giving up a first to get Josh... I mean that'd be great but I don't see it..

No, precisely. That's why I said such a trade offer would never exist and other teams don't trade to make you happy. No way Ridcharson brings you all that, probably not even a first (which I added just after you quoted me)...

[KingKev]

Who says no? Windhorst musing that Suns & Mil still trying to figure out Crowder trade and have been talking to 3rd teams.

MIL: Crowder + Roby
PHX: Richardson + Hill
SAS: Saric + Ibaka+ Nwora + Suns 23FRP + Portland 24SRP (via MIL) + Indy's 25SRP (via MIL)

Unfortunately Suns. They are stuck in no mans land and need to go all in with their future first round draft picks or rebuild. They value Crowder similar to how we value JRich. Bith clubs are out to lunch as neither are worth an FRP.

[CGD]

No, precisely. That's why I said such a trade offer would never exist and other teams don't trade to make you happy. No way Ridcharson brings you all that, probably not even a first (which I added just after you quoted me)...

Two things:

1. If you believe Windhorst, MIL/PHX have been talking about moving Crowder, MIL is super motivated, and PHX just doesn’t want Grayson Allen. The only alternative (without making it a bigger deal) that gets the matching money is Nwora, Ibaka, and Hill. This is why they’ve been trying to get a third team.

2. In my framework, PHX is also getting under the tax which is another priority for them. Lots a savings there by shedding 5M. I factor that in when I consider PHX giving up the pick, which I concede is the trickiest part.

[scott]

Is getting under the tax a priority for PHX? Comments by the new owner made it seem less so.

[CGD]

Is getting under the tax a priority for PHX? Comments by the new owner made it seem less so.

I take those to mean he’s OK paying the tax if they make an actual upgrade (OG, Collins). I’m less convinced he’s happy paying it to keep their status quo or making a minor deal (like this one) if it doesn’t also help their tax situation.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Two things:

1. If you believe Windhorst, MIL/PHX have been talking about moving Crowder, MIL is super motivated, and PHX just doesn’t want Grayson Allen. The only alternative (without making it a bigger deal) that gets the matching money is Nwora, Ibaka, and Hill. This is why they’ve been trying to get a third team.

2. In my framework, PHX is also getting under the tax which is another priority for them. Lots a savings there by shedding 5M. I factor that in when I consider PHX giving up the pick, which I concede is the trickiest part.

Phoenix are like $17 mil in the tax. This trade wouldn't get them below it, but it'd save them a few luxury tax bucks.

[CGD]

Phoenix are like $17 mil in the tax. This trade wouldn't get them below it, but it'd save them a few luxury tax bucks.

Not just a few buck— closer to 7.5M at least

[DPG21920]

My guess is Phoenix...but from a SA perspective we'd do that I believe..

Easy yes for me

[venitian navigator]

Toronto is Imho our ideal trade partner. It makrs no sense for them to still waiting for next drafts. They are built like a win now team that's not working because they have no big man in the middle, not enough good scorers/shooters from the bench, not enough (back up) play making. In a monster deal we could give all this to them (Poeltl, Richardson, McDermott, Jones) plus the benefits of taking back all of their bad, old or out of rotation players with more years (Porter, Birch, Flynn, Koloko, Young) at the cost of two unprotected first round picks...

[exstatic]

Toronto is Imho our ideal trade partner. It makrs no sense for them to still waiting for next drafts. They are built like a win now team that's not working because they have no big man in the middle, not enough good scorers/shooters from the bench, not enough (back up) play making. In a monster deal we could give all this to them (Poeltl, Richardson, McDermott, Jones) plus the benefits of taking back all of their bad, old or out of rotation players with more years (Porter, Birch, Flynn, Koloko, Young) at the cost of two unprotected first round picks...

The problem is, they’re dropping like a stone in the standings. They could just as easily be sellers at the deadline.

[scott]

I would laugh my ass off if we took back Thad in a deal that netted us FRPs

[scott]

Updating my prediction to the Spurs trading no one and getting nothing in return.

[exstatic]

Updating my prediction to the Spurs trading no one and getting nothing in return.

Even after last year?

[slick'81]

If poodles doesn't get moved thats pretty much all the spurs got

[DPG21920]

Updating my prediction to the Spurs trading no one and getting nothing in return.

I will say Spurs make a at least 2 deals (not including the trade they already made for cash). Whether thats absorbing a player using space and/or moving one+ of Josh, Doug and Jak. Tre being a dark horse to be moved.

[mo7888]

Updating my prediction to the Spurs trading no one and getting nothing in return.

I'm going with a minimum of 2 deal by the deadline..

[exstatic]

Josh been in street clothes the last two games. Just sayin’…

[heyheymymy]

My guess is that Spurs have placeholder deals already set and are shopping around for a better quote in the meantime.

I feel like we will see a deal or two occur closer to the deadline.

[CGD]

I'm going with a minimum of 2 deal by the deadline..

I’d be disappointed if less. I’m thinking it’s:

1. Jak: some formulation of the Celtic trade (spurs net clean 28FRP)

2. Rich: a 3 team framework involving PHX/Crowder like the MIL one above or ATL/Jollins (spurs net a Suns FRP)

3. Cap rentals for a few SRPs

[jjspur]

Josh been in street clothes the last two games. Just sayin’…

Yeah, he doesn't look injured or sick, so they must be looking to possibly trade him or its all part of the tanking strategy. Both are likely.

[scott]

Even after last year?

Yeah, my prediction is not really based in a lack of trying by the Spurs FO but rather a reaction to the marketplace.

1) I think the market for Jak isn't as robust as we'd hope, and the offers we are getting/likely to get don't beat the Spurs next-best alternative of working on a new deal with him as a FA or facilitating a S&T
2) I don't think there is much of a market for Doug and the Spurs don't view him as the negative asset that we do as fans
3) I think Josh isn't going to fetch an offer that knocks our socks off, and the Spurs will find more value in him continuing as a mentor and maybe even re-upping in the offseason as our veteran leader. He seems to really like it here.

I will preface all this by saying I hope I am so wrong that it elicits ridicule from everyone, laughing at my wrongness. It's just my gut feeling.

One more qualifiers: I see Zollins as a dark horse who we trade before anyone else

[Mr. Body]

I see Richardson as going. He's gone in the summer, no way will Pop allow him to stay, and he's less necessary now that's its clear Branham and Sochan can bring the ball up the court.

[CGD]

I see Richardson as going. He's gone in the summer, no way will Pop allow him to stay, and he's less necessary now that's its clear Branham and Sochan can bring the ball up the court.

The best bet for Richardson is he’s part of a framework that also saves the other team $$, e.g., Saric/Shatmet (~20M this year; 10M next) for Richardson (12M expiring). That should at least net a FRP.

[exstatic]

The best bet for Richardson is he’s part of a framework that also saves the other team $$, e.g., Saric/Shatmet (~20M this year; 10M next) for Richardson (12M expiring). That should at least net a FRP.

Now that the Suns have been sold, there isn’t the urgency to avoid the tax that there was under Sarver.

[KingKev]

Now that the Suns have been sold, there isn’t the urgency to avoid the tax that there was under Sarver.

That deal hasn’t closed yet but regardless Sarver actually was willing to spend to win these last few years. He’s on record as saying so.

[exstatic]

That deal hasn’t closed yet but regardless Sarver actually was willing to spend to win these last few years. He’s on record as saying so.

He didn’t have to spend on Ayton until this season. That’s another level of tax to spend. Their tax avoidance previously, like not picking up Smiths year 3 option of $4.5M were all leading to this season.

[poopbox]

I see Richardson as going. He's gone in the summer, no way will Pop allow him to stay, and he's less necessary now that's its clear Branham and Sochan can bring the ball up the court.

1st round draft picks paying off already :flag:

[DPG21920]

SpursTalk - thoughts on a deal like this:

Suns Get: Doug McDermott + Serge Ibaka + 2 2nd RD picks from Bucks

Bucks Get: Crowder

Spurs Get: Saric + Hill + Nwora + 1st from Suns

Suns not only shed Crowder and get a rotational player for him, but they get 2 2nds and shed 4M off salaries to help with taxes. Bucks get their guy for the package they have already offered. Spurs get their 1st for Doug and using some of their cap space to eat money this year/3M next year

Spurs then waive Dieng again and another player but they get their first for Doug/Cap Space rental while shedding 10M next year for more space (even if not needed)

[mo7888]

SpursTalk - thoughts on a deal like this:

Suns Get: Doug McDermott + Serge Ibaka + 2 2nd RD picks from Bucks

Bucks Get: Crowder

Spurs Get: Saric + Hill + Nwora + 1st from Suns

Suns not only shed Crowder and get a rotational player for him, but they get 2 2nds and shed 4M off salaries to help with taxes. Bucks get their guy for the package they have already offered. Spurs get their 1st for Doug and using some of their cap space to eat money this year/3M next year

Spurs then waive Dieng again and another player but they get their first for Doug/Cap Space rental while shedding 10M next year for more space (even if not needed)

I'd do that in half a heartbeat..

[Kevin]

I don't see the Suns dealing Saric. After a slow start he's been pretty good for them.

[DPG21920]

We know Bucks do it since no change to their current offer as reported. Think SA does it since have space to absorb 4M this year no problem and it gets them a first for Doug. Question is would Suns rather:

Get two 2nds from Bucks & Nwora, Ibaka, Hill

Or

Get Doug who is better than Nwora/Hill, 2 2nds still, but send out a first to upgrade to Doug & save solid money

[mo7888]

We know Bucks do it since no change to their current offer as reported. Think SA does it since have space to absorb 4M this year no problem and it gets them a first for Doug. Question is would Suns rather:

Get two 2nds from Bucks & Nwora, Ibaka, Hill

Or

Get Doug who is better than Nwora/Hill, 2 2nds still, but send out a first to upgrade to Doug & save solid money

They might prefer Josh to Doug since they can get off of his money earlier....and I'd still do the deal if we replaced Doug with Josh.

[spurraider21]

We know Bucks do it since no change to their current offer as reported. Think SA does it since have space to absorb 4M this year no problem and it gets them a first for Doug. Question is would Suns rather:

Get two 2nds from Bucks & Nwora, Ibaka, Hill

Or

Get Doug who is better than Nwora/Hill, 2 2nds still, but send out a first to upgrade to Doug & save solid money
so basically you are asking if the Suns would rather have Nwora, Hill, and a 1st, or

McDermott

[DPG21920]

so basically you are asking if the Suns would rather have Nwora, Hill, and a 1st, or

McDermott

Correct. But to be specific: Do Suns want Nwora, Hill and a 1st or Doug McDermott + 8-10M in luxury tax savings

So have to weigh do they think winning this year is possible/worth a try and if Doug gives them a better shot than Nwora+Hill

[Mr. Body]

So... we didn't expect the Derrick White trade or the Dejounte Murray trade. What trade comes this deadline that shocks everybody?

[spurraider21]

So... we didn't expect the Derrick White trade or the Dejounte Murray trade. What trade comes this deadline that shocks everybody?
white trade was kinda out of nowhere (though i was pleasantly surprised). murray trade had smoke leading up to it iirc

[DPG21920]

So... we didn't expect the Derrick White trade or the Dejounte Murray trade. What trade comes this deadline that shocks everybody?

Collins or Tre has to be if its going to go that route?

[Ariel]

white trade was kinda out of nowhere (though i was pleasantly surprised). murray trade had smoke leading up to it iirc
Yeah, a lot of it, including Dejounte posting cryptic messages on his social networks about it. There were definitely lots of clues pointing to an imminent move.

[jjspur]

SpursTalk - thoughts on a deal like this:

Suns Get: Doug McDermott + Serge Ibaka + 2 2nd RD picks from Bucks

Bucks Get: Crowder

Spurs Get: Saric + Hill + Nwora + 1st from Suns

Suns not only shed Crowder and get a rotational player for him, but they get 2 2nds and shed 4M off salaries to help with taxes. Bucks get their guy for the package they have already offered. Spurs get their 1st for Doug and using some of their cap space to eat money this year/3M next year

Spurs then waive Dieng again and another player but they get their first for Doug/Cap Space rental while shedding 10M next year for more space (even if not needed)

I've heard a version of that trade but it involves only the bucks and suns (who have so far been reluctant to do) .

Its Crowder for Hill + Nwora + Ibaka + a few seconds . I think that trade happens but would be nice if the spurs could somehow get involved in that action though.

[DPG21920]

I've heard a version of that trade but it involves only the bucks and suns (who have so far been reluctant to do) .

Its Crowder for Hill + Nwora + Ibaka + a few seconds . I think that trade happens but would be nice if the spurs could somehow get involved in that action though.

Ya - that’s where I got the idea. Bucks part stays the same - they don’t care. It’s just do the Suns want to try and save money + help make playoffs? Enough to give up a lottery protected first to upgrade to Doug (and save tax) over Hill/Nwora?

Maybe not but I think it makes some sense, especially since they would be getting 2 2nds as well to offset the first a little they send out to get a better player and save money.

[spurs10]

Ya - that’s where I got the idea. Bucks part stays the same - they don’t care. It’s just do the Suns want to try and save money + help make playoffs? Enough to give up a lottery protected first to upgrade to Doug (and save tax) over Hill/Nwora?

Maybe not but I think it makes some sense, especially since they would be getting 2 2nds as well to offset the first a little they send out to get a better player and save money. The Suns' lottery protected first would be 1-6?

[DPG21920]

The Suns' lottery protected first would be 1-6?

I would guess 1-10 at least, but probably 1-14 for this year. Then maybe decline a little next years

[CGD]

SpursTalk - thoughts on a deal like this:

Suns Get: Doug McDermott + Serge Ibaka + 2 2nd RD picks from Bucks

Bucks Get: Crowder

Spurs Get: Saric + Hill + Nwora + 1st from Suns

Suns not only shed Crowder and get a rotational player for him, but they get 2 2nds and shed 4M off salaries to help with taxes. Bucks get their guy for the package they have already offered. Spurs get their 1st for Doug and using some of their cap space to eat money this year/3M next year

Spurs then waive Dieng again and another player but they get their first for Doug/Cap Space rental while shedding 10M next year for more space (even if not needed)

Yeah. I posted a very similar version of this on a different thread couple days back, but with Richardson and Hill going to Suns instead of Doug.

Windhorst was saying Suns/Bucks motivated to deal but looking for 3rd team bc Suns don’t want Grayson Allen.

[CGD]

I've heard a version of that trade but it involves only the bucks and suns (who have so far been reluctant to do) .

Its Crowder for Hill + Nwora + Ibaka + a few seconds . I think that trade happens but would be nice if the spurs could somehow get involved in that action though.

I’d consider taking back Shatmet as well to improve the quality of the Suns assets coming back.

[mo7888]

So... we didn't expect the Derrick White trade or the Dejounte Murray trade. What trade comes this deadline that shocks everybody?

I don't really expect any shocking trades from the Spurs, but if it were to happen, it'd either be moving Devin or KJ with the latter coming in an unbalanced trade.

[DPG21920]

Yeah. I posted a very similar version of this on a different thread couple days back, but with Richardson and Hill going to Suns instead of Doug.

Windhorst was saying Suns/Bucks motivated to deal but looking for 3rd team bc Suns don’t want Grayson Allen.

I’d be totally fine swapping Josh for Doug here. No problem.

[DPG21920]

I don't really expect any shocking trades from the Spurs, but if it were to happen, it'd either be moving Devin or KJ with the latter coming in an unbalanced trade.

It’s so hard to imagine SA trading Devin after the season he has had…Keldon? Maybe, but he’s the face of the franchise, appears to have a value deal and is still very much young enough to be a part of a rebuild to playoff team arc.

I don’t even know what a Keldon deal would look like where SA would consider it tbh…..at least a realistic one.

[mo7888]

It’s so hard to imagine SA trading Devin after the season he has had…Keldon? Maybe, but he’s the face of the franchise, appears to have a value deal and is still very much young enough to be a part of a rebuild to playoff team arc.

I don’t even know what a Keldon deal would look like where SA would consider it tbh…..at least a realistic one.

For clarity...I don't expect either to be traded now.....that was just my definition of what a 'shocking' trade would be to me...

[TD 21]

SpursTalk - thoughts on a deal like this:

Suns Get: Doug McDermott + Serge Ibaka + 2 2nd RD picks from Bucks

Bucks Get: Crowder

Spurs Get: Saric + Hill + Nwora + 1st from Suns

Suns not only shed Crowder and get a rotational player for him, but they get 2 2nds and shed 4M off salaries to help with taxes. Bucks get their guy for the package they have already offered. Spurs get their 1st for Doug and using some of their cap space to eat money this year/3M next year

Spurs then waive Dieng again and another player but they get their first for Doug/Cap Space rental while shedding 10M next year for more space (even if not needed)

Bucks obviously do it because as you said nothing changes from their perspective.

Spurs, though I suspect they'd prefer to retain McDermott for now, obviously do it to shed money for next season and get a 1st.

Suns more than likely balk though both because they'd be giving up a 1st and adding salary for next season on a one-way role player when they already have so much uncertainty.

[DPG21920]

For clarity...I don't expect either to be traded now.....that was just my definition of what a 'shocking' trade would be to me...

For sure - I got that. Was just adding to it. Even trying to think of a somewhat realistic scenario where we could even see that type of surprise and what it would take. Hard for me to come up with anything (hence it being a major surprise lol). I think Zach/Tre are the ones no one is talking about as much as Doug/Jak/Josh that can surprise

[DPG21920]

Bucks obviously do it because as you said nothing changes from their perspective.

Spurs, though I suspect they'd prefer to retain McDermott for now, obviously do it to shed money for next season and get a 1st.

Suns more than likely balk though both because they'd be giving up a 1st and adding salary for next season on a one-way role player when they already have so much uncertainty.

Agree it’s not a slam dunk but that money they are adding next year is “functionally” offset by the luxury tax they save this year + Nwora.

So if Suns just did the deal direct with MIL, Nwora is guaranteed 3.2M next year. So Doug would only be 10M extra. They would be saving I think over 8M in taxes this year in my deal too so between Nwora and that, they get Doug who they could at least possibly flip next year as an expiring (for maybe a 2nd) vs paying that money in taxes + Nwora

[TD 21]

Agree it’s not a slam dunk but that money they are adding next year is “functionally” offset by the luxury tax they save this year + Nwora.

So if Suns just did the deal direct with MIL, Nwora is guaranteed 3.2M next year. So Doug would only be 10M extra. They would be saving I think over 8M in taxes this year in my deal too so between Nwora and that, they get Doug who they could at least possibly flip next year as an expiring (for maybe a 2nd) vs paying that money in taxes + Nwora

Maybe, but they'd probably view it like they can't afford to add that much at the moment for a one-way role player with new ownership and Paul, Ayton, Johnson and starting four all TBD going into the off season.

[DPG21920]

Maybe, but they'd probably view it like they can't afford to add that much at the moment for a one-way role player with new ownership and Paul, Ayton, Johnson and starting four all TBD going into the off season.

Definitely possible. Hard to tell. They are 7th and you would think they would want to try and make the playoffs and they aren’t getting a top 5 pick or anything at this point. So can trade for Doug, try to make playoffs and protect your pick in the lottery just in case and it only conveys if Doug helps you to make the playoffs

[scott]

It’s so hard to imagine SA trading Devin after the season he has had…Keldon? Maybe, but he’s the face of the franchise, appears to have a value deal and is still very much young enough to be a part of a rebuild to playoff team arc.

I don’t even know what a Keldon deal would look like where SA would consider it tbh…..at least a realistic one.

IIRC, there is some kind of poison pill on Keldon being traded this year, but could definitely be a possibility to be moved once the new league year starts.

[mo7888]

Definitely possible. Hard to tell. They are 7th and you would think they would want to try and make the playoffs and they aren’t getting a top 5 pick or anything at this point. So can trade for Doug, try to make playoffs and protect your pick in the lottery just in case and it only conveys if Doug helps you to make the playoffs

Do you think Doug is a better fits on the Suns than Josh?

[mo7888]

IIRC, there is some kind of poison pill on Keldon being traded this year, but could definitely be a possibility to be moved once the new league year starts.

Yes but he can be moved now in an unbalanced trade and we have plenty of cap space to make that happen if we wanted to.

[TD 21]

Definitely possible. Hard to tell. They are 7th and you would think they would want to try and make the playoffs and they aren’t getting a top 5 pick or anything at this point. So can trade for Doug, try to make playoffs and protect your pick in the lottery just in case and it only conveys if Doug helps you to make the playoffs

The other issue is, they're most likely looking to do something more significant, so salaries like Nwora and Hill, as well as retaining 1sts, would take precedent.

[Chinook]

So... we didn't expect the Derrick White trade or the Dejounte Murray trade. What trade comes this deadline that shocks everybody?

Tre could be on the move for a team with a first coming back to SA. The Suns might see him as someone to learn from Paul amd with a tiny enough salary to realize huge savings from even a modest trade. Collins makes a lot of sense for a team explicitly needing a backup center. I would say Vassell could be a shocking trade, but he's been hurt too much for it to not hurt his value

[TD 21]

The Suns need a featured type as an eventual replacement for Paul, not a caretaker or game manager, which is why names like Rozier III, Russell and Van Vleet have been mentioned.

Jones won't have significant value as a small guard who can't shoot and lacks offensive dynamism period. Expect him to be a longtime Spur as the vaunted "culture" carrier.

[rascal]

white trade was kinda out of nowhere (though i was pleasantly surprised). murray trade had smoke leading up to it iirc

Yeah Murray was expected as there was speculation he would be traded before it happened.

[DPG21920]

The other issue is, they're most likely looking to do something more significant, so salaries like Nwora and Hill, as well as retaining 1sts, would take precedent.

Possibly - if they are going to trade Ayton or CP then absolutely. It’s just an idea in the event they don’t make a splashy move.

[rascal]

The Suns need a featured type as an eventual replacement for Paul, not a caretaker or game manager, which is why names like Rozier III, Russell and Van Vleet have been mentioned.

Jones won't have significant value as a small guard who can't shoot and lacks offensive dynamism period. Expect him to be a longtime Spur as the vaunted "culture" carrier.

Nobody is going to want Jones as a starter and especially for a first round pick.

[DPG21920]

IIRC, there is some kind of poison pill on Keldon being traded this year, but could definitely be a possibility to be moved once the new league year starts.

Timing aside (I have to look that up) I just don’t see SA moving Keldon now even if they could. One path I could see is say for example SA doesn’t land a top 2 pick and they are in love with Scoot (no one is trading Wemby lol). Maybe they trade pick 3 + Keldon for pick 2 to get their guy? Something like that I can see, but that wouldn’t happen until SA knows their draft spot anyways..

[DPG21920]

Do you think Doug is a better fits on the Suns than Josh?

Hard to tell - I could see them liking Josh more due to contract + ball handling

[KingKev]

For the record Keldon’s “poison pill” means he can’t be tradeed befofe his extension kicks in after this season. If’s a standard clause in all rookie extensions.

I’d be quietly be listening to offers on day one of expiration if that clause. He is on the verge out growing the timeline unless he can start doing more than score within the system.

[DPG21920]

Nobody is going to want Jones as a starter and especially for a first round pick.

I think people here under value Tre. I agree he’s not a world beater but I get the sense lots of teams like Tre and his development arc and he definitely is someone as I said that I could see being surprise traded (not that its likely, but would not shock me)

[DPG21920]

For the record Keldon’s “poison pill” means he can’t be tradeed befofe his extension kicks in after this season. If’s a standard clause in all rookie extensions.

That’s not accurate exactly. He can be traded I believe; the poison pill just makes it difficult because of the outgoing/incoming salary rule with these rookie extensions. It does not prohibit a trade, but it does make it complex because Keldon would only count for like 3.8M as far as outgoing salary for Spurs, but would count as 15M for the other team

[DPG21920]

That’s not accurate exactly. He can be traded I believe; the poison pill just makes it difficult because of the outgoing/incoming salary rule with these rookie extensions. It does not prohibit a trade, but it does make it complex because Keldon would only count for like 3.8M as far as outgoing salary for Spurs, but would count as 15M for the other team

And as an addendum here: normally this would make it really hard, but since SA is so far under the cap it’s really not a big deal IF they really wanted to move Keldon. If the other team had to send back 15M for matching purposes on their end, but it only counted as 3.8M for SA, SA easily can absorb that 12M extra no problem. So a rare scenario where it does not hurt things too badly - the other team just has to treat/value Keldon at his extension.

[KingKev]

That’s not accurate exactly. He can be traded I believe; the poison pill just makes it difficult because of the outgoing/incoming salary rule with these rookie extensions. It does not prohibit a trade, but it does make it complex because Keldon would only count for like 3.8M as far as outgoing salary for Spurs, but would count as 15M for the other team

I stand corrected. Appreciate the info.

[scott]

Timing aside (I have to look that up) I just don’t see SA moving Keldon now even if they could. One path I could see is say for example SA doesn’t land a top 2 pick and they are in love with Scoot (no one is trading Wemby lol). Maybe they trade pick 3 + Keldon for pick 2 to get their guy? Something like that I can see, but that wouldn’t happen until SA knows their draft spot anyways..

I doubt the Spurs would want to move Keldon so quickly after the extension, but my preferred scenario in a case where the best player available in the draft is a wing (Whitmore, Miller), then we move Keldon (perhaps in combination with Devin) for an upgrade. I doubt IND or DET do this, but something like Keldon & Devin for Mathurin or Ivey. That's probably my preferred scenario in a situation where we land Wemby or Scoot as well. I just don't see Keldon or Devin as alphas.

[DPG21920]

I doubt the Spurs would want to move Keldon so quickly after the extension, but my preferred scenario in a case where the best player available in the draft is a wing (Whitmore, Miller), then we move Keldon (perhaps in combination with Devin) for an upgrade. I doubt IND or DET do this, but something like Keldon & Devin for Mathurin or Ivey. That's probably my preferred scenario in a situation where we land Wemby or Scoot as well. I just don't see Keldon or Devin as alphas.

If we land Scoot, I want to keep Keldon/Vassell honestly. It’s a great fit with having an alpha lead guard in Scoot/Vassell/Keldon/Sochan lineup. Tons of potential - dream!

[spurraider21]

That’s not accurate exactly. He can be traded I believe; the poison pill just makes it difficult because of the outgoing/incoming salary rule with these rookie extensions. It does not prohibit a trade, but it does make it complex because Keldon would only count for like 3.8M as far as outgoing salary for Spurs, but would count as 15M for the other team
you basically need a team that can send back 3.8 mil but is also able to absorb 15m. usually, teams that are buyers at the deadline arent ones that are sitting around with 15m in cap space, which is why these trades dont really happen

[BacktoBasics]

If we land Scoot, I want to keep Keldon/Vassell honestly. It’s a great fit with having an alpha lead guard in Scoot/Vassell/Keldon/Sochan lineup. Tons of potential - dream!

I agree with this. Obviously you move someone if they’re offering an absurd deal but we can’t lose sight of building an actual team vs flipping above average role players on the hopes that we’re going to strike gold.

Vassell, Keldon and Sochan are the exact kind of players we need to fill out a team.

[mo7888]

you basically need a team that can send back 3.8 mil but is also able to absorb 15m. usually, teams that are buyers at the deadline arent ones that are sitting around with 15m in cap space, which is why these trades dont really happen

It's the opposite...you need a team that can send $15M to us and they only need to absorb the $3.8M

[CGD]

One of these podcasters posited Richardson and CHA pick for Wiseman.

I think I do that trade actually. The CHA pick is fools gold.

[DPG21920]

you basically need a team that can send back 3.8 mil but is also able to absorb 15m. usually, teams that are buyers at the deadline arent ones that are sitting around with 15m in cap space, which is why these trades dont really happen

Ya but with spurs being under the cap its not an issue IMO (still don’t see it happening either way). (But it’s opposite - outgoing he counts as 3.8)

[DPG21920]

One of these podcasters posited Richardson and CHA pick for Wiseman.

I think I do that trade actually. The CHA pick is fools gold.

I don’t mind using the CHA pick in a few ways: attach it in a deal where you get a better for sure 1st or use it in a deal like this. But with Wiseman, it only makes sense if you move Jak and/or Zach IMO

[CGD]

I don’t mind using the CHA pick in a few ways: attach it in a deal where you get a better for sure 1st or use it in a deal like this. But with Wiseman, it only makes sense if you move Jak and/or Zach IMO

Yeah I’m assuming they move Jak elsewhere like Boston.

[exstatic]

One of these podcasters posited Richardson and CHA pick for Wiseman.

I think I do that trade actually. The CHA pick is fools gold.

Wiseman is a bigger pot of fools gold. We can get a pick for JRich, instead of throwing him into a terrible trade.

[mo7888]

One of these podcasters posited Richardson and CHA pick for Wiseman.

I think I do that trade actually. The CHA pick is fools gold.

I wouldn't pay for Wiseman...at best I'd take him as ballast in a bigger deal

[spurraider21]

It's the opposite...you need a team that can send $15M to us and they only need to absorb the $3.8M


Ya but with spurs being under the cap its not an issue IMO (still don’t see it happening either way). (But it’s opposite - outgoing he counts as 3.8)
right, i brainfarted and flipped it

[MultiTroll]

Nobodys trading for McForbesbot. :lol

Josh Richardson could play out of position at SF and be a much better contract for any team interested.

[mo7888]

With Sacramento pursuing Thybulle from Philly for perimeter defensive help I wonder if they could be a potential landing spot for Richardson? He plays D and isn't a liability on the offensive end...

[cd98]

TBH, it will be interesting to see what happens once one contender makes a move.

[MannyIsGod]

What are the Spurs going to get for Keldon that it makes sense to move him? Moving DJM made sense because he was giong to get overpaid and we needed to tank. That doesn't apply to Keldon and he's a very good player on a very reasonable contract with his best years ahead of him. Unless the Spurs are getting a noticeable upgrade talentwise whats the point?

[scott]

What are the Spurs going to get for Keldon that it makes sense to move him? Moving DJM made sense because he was giong to get overpaid and we needed to tank. That doesn't apply to Keldon and he's a very good player on a very reasonable contract with his best years ahead of him. Unless the Spurs are getting a noticeable upgrade talentwise whats the point?

The point is over the bolded portion, which is debatable.

I actually like Keldon, but I think he's a modern Alvin Robertson for our team. Appears to be a good part of our young core, but in honesty can be moved for the right complementary piece once our true superstar arrives. I see the way we traded Alvin for Terry Cummings as a good example of what we could potentially do.

With that said, we certainly don't HAVE to trade him. I like the idea of packaging Keldon and Devin for an upgraded wing scorer like Mathurin or Ivey.

[CGD]

If they do that BOS trade for Jakob I kinda like the idea of getting Pritchard back. Tre’s injury reminds me how fragile we are at pg.

Gallo, Pritchard + clean 28FRP

Cut the deal, let’s go

[k830713]

https://fanspo.com/nba/trades/p0lJRZw14wj_BS

[CGD]

https://fanspo.com/nba/trades/p0lJRZw14wj_BS

OKC seems to be in a position to sign him with cap space this summer if they really want him.

[k830713]

Without exchange, Poeltl will stay.

[KobesAchilles]

I hope the Spurs can trade for Lauri Markkanen. An all star player on a really good contract that really fits the modern NBA. I don’t think they would even have to trade much to get him tbh… oh wait. Wrong year I guess. You’d think there would be a thread made about him in the past. But I guess some people only focus their attention whore seeking ways on bumping the rare threads they actually got right…

Still would’ve been nice to have gotten him on the cheap.

[Russ]

Without exchange, Poeltl will stay.

Enforce the price. It will help down the road (unfortunately, the help they most need is a matter of mindless luck).

[baseline bum]

The point is over the bolded portion, which is debatable.

I actually like Keldon, but I think he's a modern Alvin Robertson for our team. Appears to be a good part of our young core, but in honesty can be moved for the right complementary piece once our true superstar arrives. I see the way we traded Alvin for Terry Cummings as a good example of what we could potentially do.

With that said, we certainly don't HAVE to trade him. I like the idea of packaging Keldon and Devin for an upgraded wing scorer like Mathurin or Ivey.

Bad comparison. Alvin would have been almost untouchable if he wasn't having off the court drama. Great trade in retrospect but man people forget how nasty a player Alvin was and god what I would have given to see a defense anchored by him and David if he could have kept his life together at that time. And Sean Elliott too, damn would that have been a tough team to score on in the 90s. You're not getting a guy like Terry Cummings for Keldon.

[Maddog]

I hope the Spurs can trade for Lauri Markkanen. An all star player on a really good contract that really fits the modern NBA. I don’t think they would even have to trade much to get him tbh… oh wait. Wrong year I guess. You’d think there would be a thread made about him in the past. But I guess some people only focus their attention whore seeking ways on bumping the rare threads they actually got right…

Still would’ve been nice to have gotten him on the cheap.

Didn't the Spurs try and obtain him in the DDR trade?

[DPG21920]

Didn't the Spurs try and obtain him in the DDR trade?

Nope - Spurs turned getting him down from what was reported. I didn’t want him either at the time. He’s been great - a massive leap I didn’t see coming personally.

[mo7888]

Didn't the Spurs try and obtain him in the DDR trade?

I wanted him in that deal but I understand why we passed...

[exstatic]

Didn't the Spurs try and obtain him in the DDR trade?

It would have cost them the FRP, and at the time, he was considered a fail, so they passed.

[scott]

Bad comparison. Alvin would have been almost untouchable if he wasn't having off the court drama. Great trade in retrospect but man people forget how nasty a player Alvin was and god what I would have given to see a defense anchored by him and David if he could have kept his life together at that time. And Sean Elliott too, damn would that have been a tough team to score on in the 90s. You're not getting a guy like Terry Cummings for Keldon.

If you'll recall, it wasn't Alvin for Terry straight up, we also sent Cadillac Anderson in the package.

I'd agree, Keldon isn't Alvin and we aren't getting a TC for Keldon... but my point is that just like Alvin and Cadillac once seemed like our future core, so do Keldon and Devin... none of the aforementioned guys were franchise players though and thus can be chess pieces to move around when we do land our Franchise Guy.

[scott]

Only four teams truly out of play-off/play-in contention at this point. Even Orlando (5th worst record) is only 4 games out of play-in contention. This adds a lot of extra trade deadline drama, IMO. But it is also countered against the backdrop of the Wemby sweepstakes where even the 10th best odds might be worth it. Who will be buyers and who will be sellers? Very interesting.

[MannyIsGod]

I mean I by no means see Keldon as untradable but in today's NBA how often do you see players traded for other players where both teams are trying to get better? That's essentially the type of trade you're talking about. Most trades today are salary cap moves or players essentially being sold for draft picks. I think we're so far from thinking about selling our youth for a final piece because we don't even have a franchise player so I certainly don't see anything like that happening for years. In years well have a much better idea of what Keldon and Devin will be but I really doubt either gets moved in either of the next two seasons.

[scott]

I agree with you, Manny, that it is unlikely they'll get moved. But in my fantasy land scenario where we land a true alpha in this draft, I'm looking to package Devin and Keldon for someone like Mathurin or Ivey. With that said, I doubt DET or IND make that deal, and you are definitely correct about how trades happen these days.

[poopbox]

What are the Spurs going to get for Keldon that it makes sense to move him? Moving DJM made sense because he was giong to get overpaid and we needed to tank. That doesn't apply to Keldon and he's a very good player on a very reasonable contract with his best years ahead of him. Unless the Spurs are getting a noticeable upgrade talentwise whats the point?

Keldon is about to be making 20 million a year on a team trying to win less than 20 games a year for the next 3 years

[Mr. Body]

I agree with you, Manny, that it is unlikely they'll get moved. But in my fantasy land scenario where we land a true alpha in this draft, I'm looking to package Devin and Keldon for someone like Mathurin or Ivey. With that said, I doubt DET or IND make that deal, and you are definitely correct about how trades happen these days.

You're not getting Mathurin or Ivey.

[rascal]

I agree with you, Manny, that it is unlikely they'll get moved. But in my fantasy land scenario where we land a true alpha in this draft, I'm looking to package Devin and Keldon for someone like Mathurin or Ivey. With that said, I doubt DET or IND make that deal, and you are definitely correct about how trades happen these days.

Quantity does not equal Quality. I see these type of 2 for 1 offers all the time in fantasy sports.

[baseline bum]

I agree with you, Manny, that it is unlikely they'll get moved. But in my fantasy land scenario where we land a true alpha in this draft, I'm looking to package Devin and Keldon for someone like Mathurin or Ivey. With that said, I doubt DET or IND make that deal, and you are definitely correct about how trades happen these days.

Come on man those are pipe dreams.

[baseline bum]

If you'll recall, it wasn't Alvin for Terry straight up, we also sent Cadillac Anderson in the package.

I'd agree, Keldon isn't Alvin and we aren't getting a TC for Keldon... but my point is that just like Alvin and Cadillac once seemed like our future core, so do Keldon and Devin... none of the aforementioned guys were franchise players though and thus can be chess pieces to move around when we do land our Franchise Guy.

Hate to say it because Cadillac was a really nice guy I got to talk to a lot when he was on the team, but he was more like a throw in, Alvin was the meat of that deal. Keldon isn't going to land you much as a centerpiece in trade, he's an average starting SF with maybe above average starting SF potential in a couple of years. He's more like the kind of guy you trade for to get something of value if your star forces his way out, not the kind of guy GM's are going to be ringing you up for dangling stars or real building blocks.

[The Truth #6]

I’m wondering if they’ll be no trades. I mean, it’s possible the FO wants to see how the lottery shakes out. If they’re hedging to see if they get Victor, they might put all trade talks on hold until the Summer so they can have the options of having veterans here…unless they get a steal, but the trades last Summer seem to have put a stall on trade activity. Everyone is already mortgaged. Inflated trades recently make it hard to make something happen, arguably.

Just trying to see it from the FO perspective.