Future Spur: Dylan Harper

[ace3g]

Castle is following him.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GrMcZUzWYAAnn7B?format=png&name=900x900

[tbdog]

TBH, Dallas should have considered getting Harper for their current team makeup. The most obvious decision is to trade AD and start the rebuild. But it seems they are dedicated in the win now mode. So drafting Harper or trading down to get Harper, is the most logistical decision. He will be day one starting pg and don't have to sort out a starting quality pg.

[Dejounte]

Castle is following him.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GrMcZUzWYAAnn7B?format=png&name=900x900

They’ve followed each other for a while now.

[Eaglenole2002]

Every couple of days I get bored and put on some Dylan Harper breakdown on YouTube. I’ll be devastated if we don’t stick and pick.

Also, I introduced my 10-year-old son to the 2014 Spurs via the Ring of the Rowel series. He’s not much of a sports fan, but he was really into it. I’ll never respect a championship team as much as that one.

[Ariel]

Hmmm... I don't like this one bit... Looks like his father is dying to have him be "the guy" on a big market (Brooklyn)...

https://x.com/HARPER04_5/status/1922283119727476829

https://x.com/HARPER04_5/status/1922285986874036648

https://x.com/HARPER04_5/status/1922286820018008167

https://x.com/HARPER04_5/status/1922777630144639354

https://x.com/HARPER04_5/status/1922287140244754528

https://x.com/HARPER04_5/status/1923038189796692058

https://x.com/HARPER04_5/status/1923068046689611860

https://x.com/HARPER04_5/status/1923101570897522982

He then tried to backtrack and not be caught offside, but it's clear what he thinks if you read (not so) in between the lines...

[exstatic]

So what? Ron Harper likes to gab on Twitter. Guarantee you, the Spurs aren’t trading #2 for a bunch of crappy Knicks picks. Ron seems to have that Dejounte’s dad twitter energy, loving his 15 minutes of fame until after the draft when most will unfollow him.

[rascal]

Hmmm... I don't like this one bit... Looks like his father is dying to have him be "the guy" on a big market (Brooklyn)...



Spurs aren't drafting Ron Harper. He wants his son close to home, in NJ.

[ChumpDumper]

Spurs aren't drafting Ron Harper. He wants his son close to home, in NJ.Is he gonna hold out or something?

Threaten to play in Europe?

[Arguendo]

If Castle can't shoot, he'll struggle on a real team. His true shooting percentage just wasn't good. There is a lot to work on. 'If only he could shoot' is a line we often hear. Most often, they never actually learn to shoot.
I don't view Castle as most guys. He's a top 5 pick and choose to be a role player in college to win, and already has an elite offensive weapon, being 15th in the NBA in FTr (exclusive of part-time Centers, #27 overall). That alone give him more of a shooting cushion then most guys ever get.

Cade shot 31% and 29% from 3 his first 2 yrs (76 games), with TS% of 50% and 49%. Castle shot 29% on similar volume with a TS% of 52%.
Castle improved his TS% every month from Dec to April, and put up 19.3 on .46/.30/.72 in 25 games as the guy.
Cade put up 17.4 on .42/.31/.85 in 32.6mpg his first 64 games as the guy. Castle was 14.7 on .43/.29/.72 in 26.7mpg in 81 overall with an inconsistent role.

Really not far off. Cade improved to a .35-.36% shooter, Castle can absolutely get there, especially with the gravity of Wemby/Fox and hopefully Harper. I don't expect Castle to ever be a sharpshooter, but near league average? Yeah.
Not saying he's Cade, obviously will have a different role, but another top5 guy of similar size who improved. Choosing UConn shows he's fine playing a role and he'll work at it. He's not Sochan or Wesley, his ability to get to the line will give him more space.
Castle's trade value may be at peak right now, but he's not done improving as a shooter at 20y/o.

[Mr. Body]

One thing I like about Castle's shooting is he launches from deep. His range is deep. No toeing the line with him.

[tbdog]

I don't view Castle as most guys. He's a top 5 pick and choose to be a role player in college to win, and already has an elite offensive weapon, being 15th in the NBA in FTr (exclusive of part-time Centers, #27 overall). That alone give him more of a shooting cushion then most guys ever get.

Cade shot 31% and 29% from 3 his first 2 yrs (76 games), with TS% of 50% and 49%. Castle shot 29% on similar volume with a TS% of 52%.
Castle improved his TS% every month from Dec to April, and put up 19.3 on .46/.30/.72 in 25 games as the guy.
Cade put up 17.4 on .42/.31/.85 in 32.6mpg his first 64 games as the guy. Castle was 14.7 on .43/.29/.72 in 26.7mpg in 81 overall with an inconsistent role.

Really not far off. Cade improved to a .35-.36% shooter, Castle can absolutely get there, especially with the gravity of Wemby/Fox and hopefully Harper. I don't expect Castle to ever be a sharpshooter, but near league average? Yeah.
Not saying he's Cade, obviously will have a different role, but another top5 guy of similar size who improved. Choosing UConn shows he's fine playing a role and he'll work at it. He's not Sochan or Wesley, his ability to get to the line will give him more space.
Castle's trade value may be at peak right now, but he's not done improving as a shooter at 20y/o.

I am not scout or wannabe scout skills. But what I am reading about Castle shot motion is that it needs a lot of work. Cade had a nice shot coming out of the college. His motion as there. His team was pretty bad when he was drafted and had far less spacing to deal with for a few years at least.

If Castle is not an on ball player, and the ball is going into Fox and Harpers hands, and of course Wemby, then Castle will more and more be an off ball player. That is what I mean by being on a 'real team.' When you are trying to win, the ball goes into your best players hands. Castle is far down on the pecking order. So he needs to space things out. Think Leonard in his first seasons with the big 3. Slowly he became more and more an on ball player.

[baseline bum]

You're not big on Bam huh?

Not especially. Guess you're not too high on Harper if you're willing to trade him for a couple of role players, Asa Newell or Jaku, and a couple of picks that won't be as good as this one.

[scott]

Hmmm... I don't like this one bit... Looks like his father is dying to have him be "the guy" on a big market (Brooklyn)...

https://x.com/HARPER04_5/status/1922283119727476829

https://x.com/HARPER04_5/status/1922285986874036648

https://x.com/HARPER04_5/status/1922286820018008167

https://x.com/HARPER04_5/status/1922777630144639354

https://x.com/HARPER04_5/status/1922287140244754528

https://x.com/HARPER04_5/status/1923038189796692058

https://x.com/HARPER04_5/status/1923068046689611860

https://x.com/HARPER04_5/status/1923101570897522982

He then tried to backtrack and not be caught offside, but it's clear what he thinks if you read (not so) in between the lines...

Honestly sounds like he’s just trying to politically correct and not just flat out say that he doesn’t like San Antonio :lol

[dn0774]

One thing I like about Castle's shooting is he launches from deep. His range is deep. No toeing the line with him.

This is part of the reason I cant help but laugh when people say Sochan is a better 3 point shooter than Castle. Sochan gets completely wide open, "we dare you to take it" 3 point shots right at the 3 point line and makes 30% of them. Castle's attempts typically have a defender much closer and he even takes plenty of well behind the line 3s and makes 28%. Castle just dialing in his shot selection a little bit would yield a couple % improvement (he also isn't afraid to take end of quarter/half heaves) but the Spurs clearly wanted him to explore the studio space this season so he gunned a bit more than I would expect going forward.

[dn0774]

Spurs aren't drafting Ron Harper. He wants his son close to home, in NJ.

Based on hearsay on other boards, his pops isn't considered to be in Dylan's inner circle the way his mom is. The parents have been divorced for quite awhile apparently. Not to say his opinion is irrelevant, but it doesn't sound like a LaVarr Ball situation or anything where he wants his hands on every aspect of his kids careers.

The fact is when a guy is drafted with a lottery pick, the drafting team gets 4 years (2 + 2 team option) and an extremely advantageous (to the drafting team) rookie extension that virtually all rookie scale players sign (especially those who are max-worthy). Even he who shall not be named played 8 full seasons (7 with Spurs, 1 with Raptors) before he was finally able to get to where he really wanted to be since the beginning (SoCal).

[daslicer]

Hmmm... I don't like this one bit... Looks like his father is dying to have him be "the guy" on a big market (Brooklyn)...

https://x.com/HARPER04_5/status/1922283119727476829

https://x.com/HARPER04_5/status/1922285986874036648

https://x.com/HARPER04_5/status/1922286820018008167

https://x.com/HARPER04_5/status/1922777630144639354

https://x.com/HARPER04_5/status/1922287140244754528

https://x.com/HARPER04_5/status/1923038189796692058

https://x.com/HARPER04_5/status/1923068046689611860

https://x.com/HARPER04_5/status/1923101570897522982

He then tried to backtrack and not be caught offside, but it's clear what he thinks if you read (not so) in between the lines...

Ron is a bigtime Spurs hater. He said recently the '98 Bulls would have swept or beaten the '99 Spurs in 5 games. I do remember him saying on the day Duncan retired that Duncan wasn't the GOAT PF and Karl Malone was better. I don't know why he carries hate for the Spurs but it's definitely there.

[Gibbz]

Who the fuck cares what Ron Harper has to say and why are y'all talking about it

[Ni-G]

Is he gonna hold out or something?

Threaten to play in Europe?

We aren't drafting RON, we are drafting Dylan. Whatever his old man thinks is irrelevant.

[mudyez]

We have come a long way of Eva Longoria and Selina Gomez in attendance to Ron.

At least my hands stay above the bedsheet during Spurs coverage now.

[Ice009]

Man, Ron sounds more like a Spurs hater than someone that is trying to be politically correct (he's trying to be that too as it's not official or anything). Anyway, I hope Ron Harper Sr. doesn't have any say in this and his mom is the one guiding him.

[mo7888]

Not especially. Guess you're not too high on Harper if you're willing to trade him for a couple of role players, Asa Newell or Jaku, and a couple of picks that won't be as good as this one.

I don't see Bam as just a role player. Cam is a role player to sweeten the deal. I am pretty high on Harper though, high enough that I'm not sure I'd do the deal, but Bam is good enough and fits well enough that I'd think about it.

[Robz4000]

Ron is a bigtime Spurs hater. He said recently the '98 Bulls would have swept or beaten the '99 Spurs in 5 games. I do remember him saying on the day Duncan retired that Duncan wasn't the GOAT PF and Karl Malone was better. I don't know why he carries hate for the Spurs but it's definitely there.


Man, Ron sounds more like a Spurs hater than someone that is trying to be politically correct (he's trying to be that too as it's not official or anything). Anyway, I hope Ron Harper Sr. doesn't have any say in this and his mom is the one guiding him.

Think it has more to do with his relationship with Phil Jackson tbh.

[rascal]

Ron is a bigtime Spurs hater. He said recently the '98 Bulls would have swept or beaten the '99 Spurs in 5 games. I do remember him saying on the day Duncan retired that Duncan wasn't the GOAT PF and Karl Malone was better. I don't know why he carries hate for the Spurs but it's definitely there.

Cut it out. Don't be over sensitive to comments.

The Spurs are drafting Dylan Harper.

[Guru of Nothing]

Ron Harper Sr bringing the guy at bar has opinions energy.

[cutewizard]

https://youtu.be/s_OV3CHT9jU?si=OtPlmaZcKXfbbW4m

[Eaglenole2002]

Cut it out. Don't be over sensitive to comments.

The Spurs are drafting Dylan Harper.

People are getting way over their skis with Harper Sr’s comments.

[Seventyniner]

Who the fuck cares what Ron Harper has to say and why are y'all talking about it

Pre-emptive PTSD in the form of fears of Uncle Dennis 2.0.

[daslicer]

Cut it out. Don't be over sensitive to comments.

The Spurs are drafting Dylan Harper.

I never said for the Spurs not to draft Dylan because of Ron just putting it out there that he's a Spurs hater. It's always important to know who you are dealing with in life in any type of relationship and not to go into it blind. A lot of Spur fans were blindsided by Uncle Dennis that's why I do think it's important to understand Ron's agenda because as we have seen in the past a family member can have a huge impact on retaining a player down the line.

[daslicer]

Think it has more to do with his relationship with Phil Jackson tbh.

That can definitely be the reason why he's Anti-Spurs. I would also say he was close with Shaq from playing on the Lakers 3 peat team so that could also influence him.

[paperboy77]

Damn that Ace Baily is growing on me. Just looking at some highlights and Baily looks like a better bet for the near future. We absolutely need a dawg when it comes to creating a shot. That dude has some Melo Anthony in how quick he can get to a good shot. I don't care who's feeling get hurt.

[Ice009]

Damn that Ace Baily is growing on me. Just looking at some highlights and Baily looks like a better bet for the near future. We absolutely need a dawg when it comes to creating a shot. That dude has some Melo Anthony in how quick he can get to a good shot. I don't care who's feeling get hurt.

Are you saying you want Bailey at number 2? I'd only be interested in trading up for another pick to get him, but that is only if the Spurs believed in him. I don't think I would take him at number 2 even if he was the supposed 6'10" people thought he was before the official measurements.

[Mr. Body]

Damn that Ace Baily is growing on me. Just looking at some highlights and Baily looks like a better bet for the near future. We absolutely need a dawg when it comes to creating a shot. That dude has some Melo Anthony in how quick he can get to a good shot. I don't care who's feeling get hurt.

Bailey looks incredible in highlights.

[ambchang]

Ron Harper saying the bulls would’ve swept the spurs if the bulls were kept together is what’s expected. He’s not going to go in and say the spurs will run a train on them because the bulls always struggle against quality bigs (rik smits was giving them trouble for Pete’s sake).

That said, him being close to phil probably would make him think the spurs were overrated as an organization, and seeing KFC struggling without Tex winter or other actual basketball minds around him would understandably make Ron wants to protect KfC by minimizing the accomplishments of the spurs.

But if he would rather have his own son play for the nets, which has historically been one of the worst franchises in the league over this, I sort of question his credentials as a dad.

[John B]

Ron Harper saying the bulls would’ve swept the spurs if the bulls were kept together is what’s expected. He’s not going to go in and say the spurs will run a train on them because the bulls always struggle against quality bigs (rik smits was giving them trouble for Pete’s sake).

That said, him being close to phil probably would make him think the spurs were overrated as an organization, and seeing KFC struggling without Tex winter or other actual basketball minds around him would understandably make Ron wants to protect KfC by minimizing the accomplishments of the spurs.

But if he would rather have his own son play for the nets, which has historically been one of the worst franchises in the league over this, I sort of question his credentials as a dad.

Good thing Dylan listens to his mom

[exstatic]

Bailey looks incredible in highlights.

So do most players.

[daslicer]

Ron Harper saying the bulls would’ve swept the spurs if the bulls were kept together is what’s expected. He’s not going to go in and say the spurs will run a train on them because the bulls always struggle against quality bigs (rik smits was giving them trouble for Pete’s sake).

That said, him being close to phil probably would make him think the spurs were overrated as an organization, and seeing KFC struggling without Tex winter or other actual basketball minds around him would understandably make Ron wants to protect KfC by minimizing the accomplishments of the spurs.

But if he would rather have his own son play for the nets, which has historically been one of the worst franchises in the league over this, I sort of question his credentials as a dad.

I don't expect any player to admit their championship team would lose to another but for him to say the Spurs would get swept by the Bulls was disrespectful. That '99 Spurs team was better than all the teams the Bulls faced during their second threepeat.

[John B]

Damn that Ace Baily is growing on me. Just looking at some highlights and Baily looks like a better bet for the near future. We absolutely need a dawg when it comes to creating a shot. That dude has some Melo Anthony in how quick he can get to a good shot. I don't care who's feeling get hurt.

Bailey is 2 inches shorter than previously advertised and underwhelming vertical at the Combine. Expect Philly to draft a knockdown shooter in Tre Johnson, while Hornets already have taller Miller. Not to mention Kon is perfect at Jazz.

[Mr. Body]

So do most players.

My point.

[RC_Drunkford]

Damn that Ace Baily is growing on me. Just looking at some highlights and Baily looks like a better bet for the near future. We absolutely need a dawg when it comes to creating a shot. That dude has some Melo Anthony in how quick he can get to a good shot. I don't care who's feeling get hurt.

he's boom or bust. I'd rather take the sure future All-Star combo guard than a forward who could be anything between Michael Beasley or Melo. Bailey really messed up in interviews too.

Reporter asked him "Name 2 strenghts and 1 weakness of your game."

Bailey: "I have more than 2 strengths and no weakness"

Reports say teams are already looking at him like he's a huge idiot.

[exstatic]

he's boom or bust. I'd rather take the sure future All-Star combo guard than a forward who could be anything between Michael Beasley or Melo. Bailey really messed up in interviews too.

Reporter asked him "Name 2 strenghts and 1 weakness of your game."

Bailey: "I have more than 2 strengths and no weakness"

Reports say teams are already looking at him like he's a huge idiot.

Cam Whitmore,revisited.

[baseline bum]

Bailey looks incredible in highlights.


So do most players.

Yeah Austin Rivers looked insane in his HS highlights which are the ones that got everyone excited about Ace.

[baseline bum]

he's boom or bust. I'd rather take the sure future All-Star combo guard than a forward who could be anything between Alfrederick Hughes or Melo.

FIFY

[paperboy77]

Are you saying you want Bailey at number 2? I'd only be interested in trading up for another pick to get him, but that is only if the Spurs believed in him. I don't think I would take him at number 2 even if he was the supposed 6'10" people thought he was before the official measurements.

No not at two.. they gotta trade down and get a good role player or a good center with the 3.

[paperboy77]

he's boom or bust. I'd rather take the sure future All-Star combo guard than a forward who could be anything between Michael Beasley or Melo. Bailey really messed up in interviews too.

Reporter asked him "Name 2 strenghts and 1 weakness of your game."

Bailey: "I have more than 2 strengths and no weakness"



Reports say teams are already looking at him like he's a huge idiot.

This sure aint rocket science. As long as the ball goes in the hoop.

[rascal]

Had the Spurs landed third I'd want Ace but at 2nd need to go with Harper.

[Ice009]

Had the Spurs landed third I'd want Ace but at 2nd need to go with Harper.

Sounds like some people still believe in Ace. Would anyone want to try and trade up to get him along with Harper, or is it not worth the cost?

[baseline bum]

Sounds like some people still believe in Ace. Would anyone want to try and trade up to get him along with Harper, or is it not worth the cost?

If he starts slipping hard I'd consider trading up to 10 or so for him.

[skin27]

I have a feeling spurs will pick bailey. This based on how the spurs are drafting (except for wemby). Harper might be a better player than bailey but bailey fits the roster better than harper.

[RC_Drunkford]

I have a feeling spurs will pick bailey. This based on how the spurs are drafting (except for wemby). Harper might be a better player than bailey but bailey fits the roster better than harper.

the Spurs don’t draft low IQ chuckers. Bailey will drop to 5 if not lower

[dn0774]

Yea all the early buzz on Ace post lottery is that he is trending downward quickly. Many mocks showing VJ @ 3 and Tre @ 4 even. With teams getting much more access this next month for private workouts and interviews the secret that he is a knucklehead is getting out.

[skin27]

the Spurs don’t draft low IQ chuckers. Bailey will drop to 5 if not lower

spurs just did that in 2023 by picking wemby(low iq chucker superstar). :lmao

[venitian navigator]

Im the only one that sees in Harper a younger and stronger 19 yo Manu?

[Obstructed_View]

I never really thought about this much these days. Have the surgeries really improved that much (I suppose they have), or do you think it's better rehab and nutrition and whatever stuff that happens after the surgery these days. I wonder what has changed the most because I do remember players not coming back from this stuff. I am guessing better treatments and maybe stuff like stem cell therapy might be something that is getting used more too.

Do they still do the microfracture surgeries (I am guessing not as I haven't heard about them mentioned for a long time). I'm assuming there is better alternatives these days. I remember some of the players that got that, a lot of them never really got back to their old level.

I also wonder about achilles injuries. I also can't remember which leg it happened with on Kobe. Not sure if it was age or mileage, but he didn't seem to come back too well after it. I read/saw it mentioned somewhere that with Tatum it was on his non-jumping leg, so that should help in his case (plus advancement in the surgeries themselves). KD seems to have come back from it great too (KD has really come back from some of injuries really well, but then again, maybe there's been a lot of advancement compared to some of the players that got it done years ago).

I would imagine that surgery has advanced hand-in-hand with rehab. Getting the ligament to come back with the same strength and flexibility without adding bulk from scar tissue is probably the key, and you need both to ensure that happens.

Achilles injuries are strange. Many times they seem to happen with very little active strain. Tatum's was when he was changing direction, but that's about the most I remember seeing. Vinny Testaverde's happened when he was stepping back, and most of the ones we see follow that. Gerald Wilkins was the same way. It's why people call it almost immediately because it's almost always a non-contact injury. According to WebMD, it also most-often occurs in the part of the tendon that gets the least blood flow so it heals the slowest. There are a lot of guys out there who are walking on time bombs. Every pro athlete should be getting massage work specifically targeted on areas like that to to move blood cells in and out of the area.

I know I'm going off on a bit of a tangent, but I'm a MT and geek out on this stuff. Remember when Victor turned his ankle and we all thought he was going to be out for a while and it barely affected him? He does a lot of flexibility stretching that many other athletes don't do. There's a guy on Youtube who does flexibility training and I'm not sure he could sprain his ankle if he wanted to because he's trained his ankles to flex. My point is that I wonder if there's a part of this that is struggling to catch up to surgery and rehab to actively prevent some of these things before they happen. Victor's training may start to catch on with other players.

[Obstructed_View]

Im the only one that sees in Harper a younger and stronger 19 yo Manu?

Younger for sure, but Manu was pretty amazing when he was young. That's for sure a guy I would love to have the Spurs bring in just to work with the guards.

[TheBallsbreakers]

spurs just did that by in 2023 picking wemby(low iq chucker superstar). :lmao
At least not as low iq as you as a poster. A toast to you - ST's resident low iq superstar :bobo

[SupremeGuy]

Don't know if it's already been posted


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXbGfHBRx_8

[Spurs Brazil]

2025 NBA mock draft: Projecting all 59 picks post-combine

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/45179882/2025-nba-mock-draft-projecting-all-59-picks-post-combine-cooper-flagg-dallas-mavericks

2. San Antonio Spurs
Dylan Harper, PG/SG, Rutgers
Freshman | TS%: 59.3

Combine measurements:
Height without shoes: 6-4½ | Weight: 213
Standing reach: 8-6 | Wingspan: 6-10½

Intel and fit: Already operating from one of the strongest long-term positions in the league, the Spurs drew lottery luck for the third straight year, jumping six spots to No. 2 and earning the right to select Harper, the consensus option after Flagg goes off the board.

San Antonio was thrilled with its lottery luck, and early signs indicate that it is very comfortable with Harper, prioritizing the best available talent over fit concerns in a backcourt that features De'Aaron Fox and NBA Rookie of the Year Stephon Castle. Building around Victor Wembanyama (21 years old), Castle (20) and Harper (19) on rookie contracts is an enviable foundation that offers tremendous short-term flexibility from a salary cap perspective. This selection would raise questions about the Spurs shooting and splitting up ballhandling duties among their guards, but Harper has substantial talent, and selecting him is easy to justify.

Though trade speculation has swirled around San Antonio and this pick since lottery night, at this stage of the process, it appears to be simply that. The Spurs want to get Wembanyama to the playoffs, but don't have to rush into a blockbuster deal, be it for Giannis Antetokounmpo (should he become available) or a different star.

San Antonio has the future draft capital to keep Harper and still significantly upgrade its roster at a lesser cost. Rival teams expect the Spurs will entertain their options, but the wide assumption is Harper will be the pick, barring a blockbuster move. -- Woo

[John B]

Don't know if it's already been posted


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXbGfHBRx_8

Just looking at Bailey’s (originally reported at 6’10 in height) shoulders next to Giannis 6’11 (maybe 7 footer) is significantly lower, maybe 4 or 5 inches difference, and the hands length with Giannis 9.85 vs Bailey 8.5. Bailey measurements at the Combine is a midget in comparison.

[SouthernFried]

spurs just did that in 2023 by picking wemby(low iq chucker superstar). :lmao


What a great description. I've never been so frustrated watching such great talent. "No, no...wtf are you doing?? OMG, that was amazing! Stop shooting 50' 3's!! Nice 3!!! Quit dribbling in the lane! Did you see that behind the back inside dribble? Did he just pass it 15' over the guys head?"

"Low IQ Chucker Superstar!" I think Wemby's created a new category. This is Gold

Keep our pick and Trade Wemby for Cooper.

Castle, Harper, Fox, Cooper...and some 7'2 block of granite in the middle.

Yeah...That would be pretty intense. I may even buy season tickets again to see that.

[skin27]

What a great description. I've never been so frustrated watching such great talent. "No, no...wtf are you doing?? OMG, that was amazing! Stop shooting 50' 3's!! Nice 3!!! Quit dribbling in the lane! Did you see that behind the back inside dribble? Did he just pass it 15' over the guys head?"

"Low IQ Chucker Superstar!" I think Wemby's created a new category. This is Gold

Keep our pick and Trade Wemby for Cooper.

Castle, Harper, Fox, Cooper...and some 7'2 block of granite in the middle.

Yeah...That would be pretty intense. I may even buy season tickets again to see that.

wemby better be on a big market team and a team who actually let him play and not baby sit him.

[jiggy_55]

Just for sharing, this is a trade idea from NBA.com:

2. San Antonio Spurs: Dylan Harper (Rutgers, PG/SG)



Size: 6’6″, 215 lbs
Age: 19
Nationality: USA
Pro Comparisons: Cade Cunningham/Jalen Brunson

Dylan Harper’s downhill game, elite finishing package and shotmaking capabilities have extended a gap between him and the No. 3 prospect.
He should be interchangeable between both guard spots thanks to a dangerous handle, 6’6″ size and 39.0% catch-and-shoot stroke. However, you draft Harper to initiate offense, put pressure on the rim, create opportunities and have a player who can take over stretches of a game with his elite driving ability and confidence pulling up, stepping back or shooting from deep.
Team fit: The Spurs’ young core would be fully loaded if Harper joined Victor Wembanyama, reigning Rookie of the Year Stephon Castle and this club’s bounty of high-end role players in the Alamo City. But do the Spurs, who brokered a big deal for De’Aaron Fox in February, really want to add another young guard with an iffy jumper to the mix? Or will they turn their lottery winnings into another aggressive move for established talent? Stay tuned. —Zach Buckley, NBA Analyst

TRADE IDEA


Spurs Receive: Jaylen Brown
Celtics Receive: No. 2 pick, No. 14 pick, Devin Vassell, Keldon Johnson, Jeremy Sochan and a 2030 first-round pick (via SAS, DAL or MIN)

[Mr. Body]

oh god no

[scottspurs]

Just for sharing, this is a trade idea from NBA.com:

2. San Antonio Spurs: Dylan Harper (Rutgers, PG/SG)



Size: 6’6″, 215 lbs
Age: 19
Nationality: USA
Pro Comparisons: Cade Cunningham/Jalen Brunson

Dylan Harper’s downhill game, elite finishing package and shotmaking capabilities have extended a gap between him and the No. 3 prospect.
He should be interchangeable between both guard spots thanks to a dangerous handle, 6’6″ size and 39.0% catch-and-shoot stroke. However, you draft Harper to initiate offense, put pressure on the rim, create opportunities and have a player who can take over stretches of a game with his elite driving ability and confidence pulling up, stepping back or shooting from deep.
Team fit: The Spurs’ young core would be fully loaded if Harper joined Victor Wembanyama, reigning Rookie of the Year Stephon Castle and this club’s bounty of high-end role players in the Alamo City. But do the Spurs, who brokered a big deal for De’Aaron Fox in February, really want to add another young guard with an iffy jumper to the mix? Or will they turn their lottery winnings into another aggressive move for established talent? Stay tuned. —Zach Buckley, NBA Analyst

TRADE IDEA


Spurs Receive: Jaylen Brown
Celtics Receive: No. 2 pick, No. 14 pick, Devin Vassell, Keldon Johnson, Jeremy Sochan and a 2030 first-round pick (via SAS, DAL or MIN)



might as well throw in Wemby and Castle as well. How about 3 Taco Cabana franchises. Can the Hemisphere be moved to Boston?

[mystargtr34]

That’s too much for soon to be 30yo Jaylen Brown imo.

I would have to think hard about just pick number 2 for Jaylen straight up.

[PhantomDashCam]

Jaylen Brown could be damaged goods after reports suggest he’s been playing with a torn meniscus for a while.
They may have unwittingly shortened the man’s career.

[Ice009]

Jaylen Brown could be damaged goods after reports suggest he’s been playing with a torn meniscus for a while.
They may have unwittingly shortened the man’s career.

Sh!t. Did he know it was torn? Was it his decision to play with it like that? Hopefully at least it was his decision and not the team pushing him to play.

Regardless of hearing this, I still wouldn't even come close to entertaining that trade proposal mentioned.

[PhantomDashCam]

Sh!t. Did he know it was torn? Was it his decision to play with it like that? Hopefully at least it was his decision and not the team pushing him to play.

Regardless of hearing this, I still wouldn't even come close to entertaining that trade proposal mentioned.

Agreed. Way too much to give up and still not bringing perimeter shooting in.
On the meniscus injury, supposedly he and the Celtics did know. I wouldn’t be surprised if we hear more on this over time.

[onechance87]

Just for sharing, this is a trade idea from NBA.com:

2. San Antonio Spurs: Dylan Harper (Rutgers, PG/SG)



Size: 6’6″, 215 lbs
Age: 19
Nationality: USA
Pro Comparisons: Cade Cunningham/Jalen Brunson

Dylan Harper’s downhill game, elite finishing package and shotmaking capabilities have extended a gap between him and the No. 3 prospect.
He should be interchangeable between both guard spots thanks to a dangerous handle, 6’6″ size and 39.0% catch-and-shoot stroke. However, you draft Harper to initiate offense, put pressure on the rim, create opportunities and have a player who can take over stretches of a game with his elite driving ability and confidence pulling up, stepping back or shooting from deep.
Team fit: The Spurs’ young core would be fully loaded if Harper joined Victor Wembanyama, reigning Rookie of the Year Stephon Castle and this club’s bounty of high-end role players in the Alamo City. But do the Spurs, who brokered a big deal for De’Aaron Fox in February, really want to add another young guard with an iffy jumper to the mix? Or will they turn their lottery winnings into another aggressive move for established talent? Stay tuned. —Zach Buckley, NBA Analyst

TRADE IDEA


Spurs Receive: Jaylen Brown
Celtics Receive: No. 2 pick, No. 14 pick, Devin Vassell, Keldon Johnson, Jeremy Sochan and a 2030 first-round pick (via SAS, DAL or MIN)



This is crazy.This is the package i would of sent for giannis.Not brown.Huge pass

[LeBowen]

This is crazy.This is the package i would of sent for giannis.Not brown.Huge pass

It's just about generating views and engagement.
Idk how can some Spurs fans still take any trade scenarios articles seriously knowing how the franchise operates.
Unless everyone starts reporting the same thing like they did with Fox, it's just whataboutism and speculation with no insight whatsoever.

[RC_Drunkford]

wouldn't even make sense cap wise, cause Brown is on a supermax. That deal would kill us in 2 years

[John B]

might as well throw in Wemby and Castle as well. How about 3 Taco Cabana franchises. Can the Hemisphere be moved to Boston?

At least we still have the Coyote

[BatManu20]

Just for sharing, this is a trade idea from NBA.com:

2. San Antonio Spurs: Dylan Harper (Rutgers, PG/SG)



Size: 6’6″, 215 lbs
Age: 19
Nationality: USA
Pro Comparisons: Cade Cunningham/Jalen Brunson

Dylan Harper’s downhill game, elite finishing package and shotmaking capabilities have extended a gap between him and the No. 3 prospect.
He should be interchangeable between both guard spots thanks to a dangerous handle, 6’6″ size and 39.0% catch-and-shoot stroke. However, you draft Harper to initiate offense, put pressure on the rim, create opportunities and have a player who can take over stretches of a game with his elite driving ability and confidence pulling up, stepping back or shooting from deep.
Team fit: The Spurs’ young core would be fully loaded if Harper joined Victor Wembanyama, reigning Rookie of the Year Stephon Castle and this club’s bounty of high-end role players in the Alamo City. But do the Spurs, who brokered a big deal for De’Aaron Fox in February, really want to add another young guard with an iffy jumper to the mix? Or will they turn their lottery winnings into another aggressive move for established talent? Stay tuned. —Zach Buckley, NBA Analyst

TRADE IDEA


Spurs Receive: Jaylen Brown
Celtics Receive: No. 2 pick, No. 14 pick, Devin Vassell, Keldon Johnson, Jeremy Sochan and a 2030 first-round pick (via SAS, DAL or MIN)



Hilarious :lol. In no world would the Spurs give all up for Jaylen Brown and his albatross contract (he's due $234M over the next 4 years... disgusting). B-Wright would be fired on the spot.

[rascal]

Im the only one that sees in Harper a younger and stronger 19 yo Manu?

Different games

I don't see the similarities, Manu better as an off ball sg and Harper as an on ball pg.

[baseline bum]

Just for sharing, this is a trade idea from NBA.com:

2. San Antonio Spurs: Dylan Harper (Rutgers, PG/SG)



Size: 6’6″, 215 lbs
Age: 19
Nationality: USA
Pro Comparisons: Cade Cunningham/Jalen Brunson

Dylan Harper’s downhill game, elite finishing package and shotmaking capabilities have extended a gap between him and the No. 3 prospect.
He should be interchangeable between both guard spots thanks to a dangerous handle, 6’6″ size and 39.0% catch-and-shoot stroke. However, you draft Harper to initiate offense, put pressure on the rim, create opportunities and have a player who can take over stretches of a game with his elite driving ability and confidence pulling up, stepping back or shooting from deep.
Team fit: The Spurs’ young core would be fully loaded if Harper joined Victor Wembanyama, reigning Rookie of the Year Stephon Castle and this club’s bounty of high-end role players in the Alamo City. But do the Spurs, who brokered a big deal for De’Aaron Fox in February, really want to add another young guard with an iffy jumper to the mix? Or will they turn their lottery winnings into another aggressive move for established talent? Stay tuned. —Zach Buckley, NBA Analyst

TRADE IDEA


Spurs Receive: Jaylen Brown
Celtics Receive: No. 2 pick, No. 14 pick, Devin Vassell, Keldon Johnson, Jeremy Sochan and a 2030 first-round pick (via SAS, DAL or MIN)


I wouldn't even trade Evin + Kelon for Brown. Slightly above average player on a cap crushing 35% supermax? No fucking thanks.

[baseline bum]

That’s too much for soon to be 30yo Jaylen Brown imo.

I would have to think hard about just pick number 2 for Jaylen straight up.

I wouldn't trade #14 for Brown much less #2. 35% supermax on a guy with a PER of 17.8? Guy is also a terrible defender statistically. How the hell can he be 24th percentile on Crafted NBA's defensive plus minus with all the defensive talent around him any time he steps on the floor? No way. Boston is going to have to attach assets to get anyone to take Brown's deal.

[spursistan]

I wouldn't trade #14 for Brown much less #2. 35% supermax on a guy with a PER of 17.8? Guy is also a terrible defender statistically. How the hell can he be 24th percentile on Crafted NBA's defensive plus minus with all the defensive talent around him any time he steps on the floor? No way. Boston is going to have to attach assets to get anyone to take Brown's deal.
Not to mention, he's got the mileage of a 33 year-old on a 29 yo body. Celtics been going deep in the playoffs every year since he got drafted (2016). I won't be surprised if, like Tatum, his ACL/Achilles pops off soon (his meniscus is already cracking). As far as Spurs are concerned, that 2028 Boston swap has suddenly some big time potential.

[exstatic]

The meniscus thing makes me not want to even trade dead contracts for him. Tim was injured relatively early in his career, had the meniscus shaved and smoothed, and went on to have a long career. He was not a high flyer though. Brown is, so his career could end relatively shortly.

[ginobilized]

Any word as to Harper interviewing and/or working out for the Spurs? Other teams?

[cutewizard]

Intuition

I posted here somewhere that we either get 2nd or 4th , so bingo

Now, I'll trust my intuition again

Harper will be Rookie of the Year

I don't know how....but you'll see hehehe

[Mr. Body]

So... In terms of Usage rates, which admittedly are just another stat.

Fox in his prime at Sacramento had about a 30% USG rate, this year at SAS he was at 26% USG.

Victor was at a 30% USG rate this year.

Castle was at a 26% USG rate, although he was at about a 22% USG in college.

Dylan Harper was at a 29% USG rate at Rutgers.

USG formulates how many possessions a player finishes, whether a field goal attempt (whether it goes in or not), free throw attempts, or a turnover. It's this: 100*((Player’s Field Goal Attempts)+0.44*(Player’s Free Throw Attempts)+(Player’s Turnovers))*(Team’s Total Minutes)

Obviously something has to give, if all four of these players start. (Harrison Barnes was at a 15% USG rate this season.) I'd expect Wemby's usage to dip at least slightly. His first year, he was at 32% USG, so already dipped about 2% as Castle and Fox became more involved. Castle, I believe, can handle less of a load, more like his college rate. Fox may have to be happy with a bit of a reduced role -- his scoring/shots went down already over his Kings days, and I don't expect them to go back up.

If you stagger guard line-ups, you get more touches, but I don't think it's going to make-up for the shortfall. I don't expect Harper would be getting that many finishing touches right away (30%), but the issue will persist until something gives along the line, such as Fox, Castle, or Harper getting moved.

[OldMan88]

Tim’s game changed after his meniscus tear. The technology exists nowadays to repair & regrow the damaged cartilage, but you have to stay off it for about a year to allow the stem cells & HGH to work their magic. No way to agree to a trade like that.

[Ice009]

Tim’s game changed after his meniscus tear. The technology exists nowadays to repair & regrow the damaged cartilage, but you have to stay off it for about a year to allow the stem cells & HGH to work their magic. No way to agree to a trade like that.

I remember Tim being really good athletically. Not sure if it was the meniscus or not that caused him to lose some of it?

Interesting what you've said about the current technology. So if you take enough time, and do those treatments you mentioned, it can repair (is that close to 100% in that cause if doing stem cells and HGH - Is this kind of stuff even allowed?)?

And yeah, not interested in that trade at all.

[John B]

So... In terms of Usage rates, which admittedly are just another stat.

Fox in his prime at Sacramento had about a 30% USG rate, this year at SAS he was at 26% USG.

Victor was at a 30% USG rate this year.

Castle was at a 26% USG rate, although he was at about a 22% USG in college.

Dylan Harper was at a 29% USG rate at Rutgers.

USG formulates how many possessions a player finishes, whether a field goal attempt (whether it goes in or not), free throw attempts, or a turnover. It's this: 100*((Player’s Field Goal Attempts)+0.44*(Player’s Free Throw Attempts)+(Player’s Turnovers))*(Team’s Total Minutes)

Obviously something has to give, if all four of these players start. (Harrison Barnes was at a 15% USG rate this season.) I'd expect Wemby's usage to dip at least slightly. His first year, he was at 32% USG, so already dipped about 2% as Castle and Fox became more involved. Castle, I believe, can handle less of a load, more like his college rate. Fox may have to be happy with a bit of a reduced role -- his scoring/shots went down already over his Kings days, and I don't expect them to go back up.

If you stagger guard line-ups, you get more touches, but I don't think it's going to make-up for the shortfall. I don't expect Harper would be getting that many finishing touches right away (30%), but the issue will persist until something gives along the line, such as Fox, Castle, or Harper getting moved.

What will happen with Vassell’s usage rate? He was 21.7% last season. Do you expect him to start at 3 with Fox and Castle at 1 and 2? I take that Dylan could be the 1st backup PG coming from the bench, but not for long.

Would Vassell embrace a supporting role like Keldon did?

[Mr. Body]

What will happen with Vassell’s usage rate? He was 21.7% last season. Do you expect him to start at 3 with Fox and Castle at 1 and 2? I take that Dylan could be the 1st backup PG coming from the bench, but not for long.

Would Vassell embrace a supporting role like Keldon did?

I figure Barnes will start, but I have no idea. I do see why Harper's camp might not be too happy, but maybe they're not.

[LeBowen]

I figure Barnes will start, but I have no idea. I do see why Harper's camp might not be too happy, but maybe they're not.

Honestly, fuck all these camps, private development staff, family and whoever.
He wants to be in the league? He lucked into being drafted to a team with soon to be the best player in the league.
If he's got the right mentality he'll do whatever is needed. If he doesn't, he'll be a bust and someone who'll be good only for putting up empty numbers on losing teams.

[OldMan88]

The Spurs ran a very fast pace last season & produced some early leads they were unable to maintain when they started slowing down. Adding Harper to the mix may really help them maintain the fast pace longer and hold onto early leads better. Having 3 fast guards running back the break may give Wemby a rest if he doesn’t have to even cross half court on more plays.

[Dverde]

Going up against Castle in practice is going to make Harper so much better. Spurs just need someone better to set them screens.

[Mr. Body]

Honestly, fuck all these camps, private development staff, family and whoever.
He wants to be in the league? He lucked into being drafted to a team with soon to be the best player in the league.
If he's got the right mentality he'll do whatever is needed. If he doesn't, he'll be a bust and someone who'll be good only for putting up empty numbers on losing teams.

I think he'll be more than fine. I do think they'll need to figure out what to do with Fox before long, however.

[LeBowen]

I think he'll be more than fine. I do think they'll need to figure out what to do with Fox before long, however.

Fox/Harper/Castle rotation will be fine for a couple of seasons.
We'll have to start figuring stuff out when Castle's extension kicks in.

Right now we'd just be talking whataboutisms because we have no clue about Castle's and Harper's ceiling.

[CGD]

I think he'll be more than fine. I do think they'll need to figure out what to do with Fox before long, however.

My view is give him his contract, but be prepared to move him in the summer of 2028 if the 3 guard thing doesnt pan out.

[Mr. Body]

My view is give him his contract, but be prepared to move him in the summer of 2028 if the 3 guard thing doesnt pan out.

I don't think they can max him. It'll be interesting.

[LeBowen]

I don't think they can max him. It'll be interesting.

I think the compromise will be a 3+1 max, option would be for 29-30 season.
Max would be in his age 29, 30, 31 seasons and option would be for the summer when Harper's extension kicks in.

[Mr. Body]

I think the compromise will be a 3+1 max, option would be for 29-30 season.
Max would be in his age 29, 30, 31 seasons and option would be for the summer when Harper's extension kicks in.

By then he may see the writing on the wall and realize his next paychecks are coming from a bigger role on another team. We'll see!

[baseline bum]

I don't think they can max him. It'll be interesting.

Nah they almost certainly promised him a 4 year max or a 3+1 max when they traded for him. Maybe even a 5 year max though hopefully it was the 4 or 3+1. Thankfully the 10% cap bumps every year mean year 4 will be a little less than 28% of the cap even if they give him the max 8% raises so it's not the Phoenix situation where a stagnant cap makes your max deals more expensive over time.

[spurraider21]

Going up against Castle in practice is going to make Harper so much better. Spurs just need someone better to set them screens.
yep, there's going to be a lot of iron sharpening iron between those guys

[John B]

By then he may see the writing on the wall and realize his next paychecks are coming from a bigger role on another team. We'll see!

I certainly hope winning championships would change his mind. The Big 3 did and sacrificed salary to keep the gang competing. But that will be the challenge

[Manu&Duncan fan]

Not to mention, he's got the mileage of a 33 year-old on a 29 yo body. Celtics been going deep in the playoffs every year since he got drafted (2016). I won't be surprised if, like Tatum, his ACL/Achilles pops off soon (his meniscus is already cracking). As far as Spurs are concerned, that 2028 Boston swap has suddenly some big time potential.

The injury of Tatum and Brown will help Dylan Harper to be determined to join the spurs.

Spurs is the best in preserving players,

I'll not be surprised if both Harper and Castle play for 15+ years.

[Atl Spur]

Are we really pretending fox isn’t a top 25 player ( re-familiarize yourselves )? Money aside, neither castle or Harper are near his level! Let the young bucks grow while fox & Wemby do the heavy lifting:) it’s the natural order

[Atl Spur]

I certainly hope winning championships would change his mind. The Big 3 did and sacrificed salary to keep the gang competing. But that will be the challenge

Brunson just did it in NYC….

[Mr. Body]

Are we really pretending fox isn’t a top 25 player ( re-familiarize yourselves )? Money aside, neither castle or Harper are near his level! Let the young bucks grow while fox & Wemby do the heavy lifting:) it’s the natural order

Fox definitely isn't a top 25 player.

[RC_Drunkford]

Nah they almost certainly promised him a 4 year max or a 3+1 max when they traded for him. Maybe even a 5 year max though hopefully it was the 4 or 3+1. Thankfully the 10% cap bumps every year mean year 4 will be a little less than 28% of the cap even if they give him the max 8% raises so it's not the Phoenix situation where a stagnant cap makes your max deals more expensive over time.

the problem is by year 4 of Fox' deal Wemby, Castle and Harper might also all be on a max. One thing we can hope for, is that due to having all 3 of those guards, their numbers dip and they extend for less than 30%. Still Fox will most likely have to be traded after his 3rd year.


The injury of Tatum and Brown will help Dylan Harper to be determined to join the spurs.

Spurs is the best in preserving players,

I'll not be surprised if both Harper and Castle play for 15+ years.


I'm pretty sure that won't happen unless Wemby leaves the team, because you can not pay 3 players on your team the max. With the cap rising we can actually fit all 3, but once their next contracts come up and we are talking super max, one of them has to go.

[baseline bum]

the problem is by year 4 of Fox' deal Wemby, Castle and Harper might also all be on a max. One thing we can hope for, is that due to having all 3 of those guards, their numbers dip and they extend for less than 30%. Still Fox will most likely have to be traded after his 3rd year.


It's a good problem to have. Also 30% is supermax for second contracts, so Castle or Harper would have to be obvious top 15 players to meet that criteria of All-NBA for two of the last three seasons or their max is 25% of the cap (assuming Castle or Harper isn't winning DPOY or MVP). If Harper blows up and he's Kobe Bryant 2.0 or James Harden 2.0 three years in and qualifying for a 30% supermax then holy shit what a good problem to have.

[scott]

Castle just won one of the weakest ROY battles ever, and Harper has yet to play an NBA game or even be drafted... might be slightly pre-mature to worry about their max extensions.

[dn0774]

Castle just won one of the weakest ROY battles ever, and Harper has yet to play an NBA game or even be drafted... might be slightly pre-mature to worry about their max extensions.

If Castle is a legit max player then that means his shooting took a leap aka a good problem.

[poopbox]

Fox definitely isn't a top 25 player.

The only place Fox isn't a top 25 player in this league is planet retard.

[Mr. Body]

The only place Fox isn't a top 25 player in this league is planet retard.

Lol, he wasn't even the best player on the Kings.

[Ice009]

With Dylan's dad in his ear, I doubt he takes a cent less than the Supermax if he becomes that type of player (I hope does). The only reason I bring that up, reading Cooper's comments about teamwork and unselfishness, I believe if he liked the team and players and thought they could win, he'd be willing to sacrifice and take a regular max (if the other players such as Victor did too). Steph might if he gets to that level, but this is the drawback with someone like Dylan having a former Champion level NBA player as a father, I doubt he'd do it. His dad would probably make he move on to another team like Kawhi's uncle did with him.

[Atl Spur]

The only place Fox isn't a top 25 player in this league is planet retard.

They could visit the ringer website or do a general google search :) We all know spewing dumb stuff is easier.

[RC_Drunkford]

Fox definitely isn't a top 25 player.

the Ringer ranked him at 27, so he's right there. At least top 30.


It's a good problem to have. Also 30% is supermax for second contracts, so Castle or Harper would have to be obvious top 15 players to meet that criteria of All-NBA for two of the last three seasons or their max is 25% of the cap (assuming Castle or Harper isn't winning DPOY or MVP). If Harper blows up and he's Kobe Bryant 2.0 or James Harden 2.0 three years in and qualifying for a 30% supermax then holy shit what a good problem to have.

thanks for clarifiiying, I guess I got that wrong. That makes it fairly easy to keep all 3. If Fox gives us a slight discount, it won't even be a big issue going forward.

[Atl Spur]

the Ringer ranked him at 27, so he's right there. At least top 30.



thanks for clarifiiying, I guess I got that wrong. That makes it fairly easy to keep all 3. If Fox gives us a slight discount, it won't even be a big issue going forward.

He was 19 last year; he dropped this year after injury etc…. Dude scored 60 pts in a game against minny!

[TheBallsbreakers]

Are we really pretending fox isn’t a top 25 player ( re-familiarize yourselves )? Money aside, neither castle or Harper are near his level! Let the young bucks grow while fox & Wemby do the heavy lifting:) it’s the natural order
When you're right, you're right

[Ice009]

He was 19 last year; he dropped this year after injury etc…. Dude scored 60 pts in a game against minny!

And he backed that game up with 49 I think?

[LeBowen]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_OV3CHT9jU

Good video.

[poopbox]

With Dylan's dad in his ear, I doubt he takes a cent less than the Supermax if he becomes that type of player (I hope does). The only reason I bring that up, reading Cooper's comments about teamwork and unselfishness, I believe if he liked the team and players and thought they could win, he'd be willing to sacrifice and take a regular max (if the other players such as Victor did too). Steph might if he gets to that level, but this is the drawback with someone like Dylan having a former Champion level NBA player as a father, I doubt he'd do it. His dad would probably make he move on to another team like Kawhi's uncle did with him.

What :lol

Flagg is going to leave around 50 million dollars on the table cause of the "love of the game" :lol

It won't even be Flagg's decision. No agent is letting their client take a regular max if they qualify for a supermax :lol

[ginobilized]

Nice breakdown of Harper's game. I hope the Spurs don't mess this up.
Both Harper and Castle are good rebounders and cut well off the ball. It makes me think that Harper might begin the season as Castle's backup. Harper has a long way to go on the defensive end.

[Mugen]

Harper getting to go against Wemby's rim protection in practice is gonna be great for translating his rim pressure to the NBA. Every other rim protector in the league is gonna be a walk in the park compared to Vic tbh :lol

[scott]

What :lol

Flagg is going to leave around 50 million dollars on the table cause of the "love of the game" :lol

It won't even be Flagg's decision. No agent is letting their client take a regular max if they qualify for a supermax :lol

I can’t think of a single supermax eligible player who took less. It’s the next tier down of marginal max players who sometimes take discounts

[exstatic]

I can’t think of a single supermax eligible player who took less. It’s the next tier down of marginal max players who sometimes take discounts

Jalen Brunson was 3rd team All NBA in 23-24, triggering SuperMax eligibility, and extended for 34,37,40,43.

[scott]

Jalen Brunson was 3rd team All NBA in 23-24, triggering SuperMax eligibility, and extended for 34,37,40,43.

IIRC, Brunson would have had to have waited one more year to sign a supermax extension… he signed an early extension by opting out of his player option and getting a 140% raise extension. So getting the extension done early might have been a motivating factor for him.

[scott]

Jalen Brunson was 3rd team All NBA in 23-24, triggering SuperMax eligibility, and extended for 34,37,40,43.


IIRC, Brunson would have had to have waited one more year to sign a supermax extension… he signed an early extension by opting out of his player option and getting a 140% raise extension. So getting the extension done early might have been a motivating factor for him.

Following up here, because I wanted to double check the rules...

As I recalled, Brunson was not actually eligible for a SuperMax last summer when he signed his extension.

To be eligible for a 35% SuperMax, a player must meet the All NBA/MVP/DPOY criteria, but also have 7+ years of service when the extension is signed, have 1 or 2 years remaining on the contract, and be with the same team continuously (unless traded during his first 4 years in the league.

Brunson only had 6 years of experience when he signed his extension *and* was DQ'd from SuperMax eligibility any because he left Dallas as a Free Agent to join the Knicks (the same disqualifier that will prevent Luka from getting a SuperMax, though obviously it was a trade for Luka not leaving via FA).

To sign his extension last summer, Brunson actually got the max available to him as a 140% extension (which ends up being a significant discount at 22.8% of the cap). If he would have waited until this summer, he would have been eligible for a 30% max. Brunson did, however, line up his extension as a 3+1 that allows him to opt out after year 10 so he can sign a 35% 10-year vet extension. This is what I think Luka will do in LAL, and what I'm kind of hoping Fox will do with us.

So... I still am not aware of any *SuperMax* eligible player who has ever taken a discount (but there may be some out there).

Follow up: A quick search shows that Gobert was SuperMax eligible and took slightly less ($205MM vs $228MM. I'm sure MIN is thanking their lucky stars on that one, since even that discounted deal looks like an overpay at this point). Kawhi is an example of someone who forced his way out of a team, costing them a potential SuperMax deal.

[SPURt]

The only place Fox isn't a top 25 player in this league is planet retard.
:lol

[LeBowen]

Lol, he wasn't even the best player on the Kings.

https://nbarankings.theringer.com/

Sabonis 26th, Fox 27th.
Fox is most definitely in that 20-30 range, then it's about personal prefrence.
Sabonis is a better regular season #1 option, but his archetype is useless in the playoffs.

[scott]

Here's an article from The Ringer today on Harper and Bailey: https://www.theringer.com/2025/05/21/nba-draft/nba-draft-dylan-harper-ace-bailey

For those asking how Rutgers was still so bad with two supposedly great players... this article goes into a bit of that.

[Atl Spur]

If I had to guess, Vic would take less in the future to help keep a championship team together ( if they reach that status ). Good problems to have.

[Atl Spur]

https://nbarankings.theringer.com/

Sabonis 26th, Fox 27th.
Fox is most definitely in that 20-30 range, then it's about personal prefrence.
Sabonis is a better regular season #1 option, but his archetype is useless in the playoffs.

Fox & Wemby partnership is gonna be nasty! Adding Harper is borderline cheating….

[poopbox]

I can’t think of a single supermax eligible player who took less. It’s the next tier down of marginal max players who sometimes take discounts

I think there is also a misunderstanding of how contracts get signed, namely a team is dealing with a players agent and not the player themselves when it comes time to sign a contract.

And that most agents get paid on commission. For a player to take a regular max and not a supermax is to cost the agent themselves money and they sure as shit aint doing that.

[poopbox]

https://nbarankings.theringer.com/

Sabonis 26th, Fox 27th.
Fox is most definitely in that 20-30 range, then it's about personal prefrence.
Sabonis is a better regular season #1 option, but his archetype is useless in the playoffs.

The Ringer :lmao

So you telling me if we offer Victor for Donovan Mitchell the Cavs are saying no :lmao

If we offer Victor for Lebron James the lakers are saying no :lmao

Come on.

[LeBowen]

The Ringer :lmao

So you telling me if we offer Victor for Donovan Mitchell the Cavs are saying no :lmao

If we offer Victor for Lebron James the lakers are saying no :lmao

Come on.

Wemby was #6 in January, they drop players with serious injuries.
And trade value is different matter.

[spurraider21]

The Ringer :lmao

So you telling me if we offer Victor for Donovan Mitchell the Cavs are saying no :lmao

If we offer Victor for Lebron James the lakers are saying no :lmao

Come on.
wemby is the #1 player on their trade value rankings

:lol

https://nbarankings.theringer.com/trade-value


*trigger warning*

fox is 19th

[scott]

The Ringer :lmao

So you telling me if we offer Victor for Donovan Mitchell the Cavs are saying no :lmao

If we offer Victor for Lebron James the lakers are saying no :lmao

Come on.

The Ringer has a separate Trade Value Rankings, where Victor is ranked #1: https://nbarankings.theringer.com/trade-value

[Seventyniner]

Funny that Fox is in the "Only if they made us do it" tier, which is the only reason the Spurs got him so cheaply.

[Atl Spur]

Funny that Fox is in the "Only if they made us do it" tier, which is the only reason the Spurs got him so cheaply.

But people in here acting like he a bum….

[SouthernFried]

How about 3 Taco Cabana franchises. Can the Hemisphere be moved to Boston?

:lmao

[manufan10]

1925544661872939417

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Top NBA analyst says Harper goes to Spurs or to another team that trade up.

More breaking news at 8.

[spursistan]

This is a great, in-depth scouting report by Nate Duncan and Danny Leroux on Harper (starts 28:30 mins). The conclusion: they are extremely high on him despite his shooting issue(s) . One of the best guard prospects of past decade (nice comps discussion). Just a can't-miss Second overall pick. Spurs front office should not overthink it one bit.

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/min-okc-game-2-dylan-harper-scouting-report/id986901174?i=1000709543881

[tbdog]

Just listened to Dunc'd On podcast about Harper scouting reporting. They are very high on him. The negatives being his shot is low, taking away that size advantage he has, therefore needs more work there. Compared to previous guards coming into the NBA draft, they only have Morant, Cade, Fultz ahead of him. They put Harper above Scoot, the Ball brothers, and ironically Fox. They said his floor is very high. He may never be as good as 2023 Fox, stating that Fox season was amazing, but clarified that Fox may never be that good again. They kinda wish Fox was not there so the Spurs could just build around Harper and Wemby. Finally, they said that they wouldn't trade this number 2 pick unless it's for a huge package. They are very very high on him.


They have not done Flagg's report yet. It'll be interesting how close they are, remembering that Dallas are in dire need for a PG.

[Blizzardwizard]

i don't really see the cade comp with harper personally. feel like they have almost opposite offensive strengths (cade way better movement shooter, harper way better rim finisher).


my harper comp would be ​'what if tyreke evans reached his full potential?'

[ace3g]

DKBOo9YR9js

[cd021]

Nice breakdown of Harper's game. I hope the Spurs don't mess this up.
Both Harper and Castle are good rebounders and cut well off the ball. It makes me think that Harper might begin the season as Castle's backup. Harper has a long way to go on the defensive end.

I think Fox and Castle will play around 33 and 30 mpg white Harper plays most of the remaining 33 minutes per game. He'll also probably start the inevitable games that Vassell misses.

[Chomag]

DKBOo9YR9js

Is this how he normally shoots from distance? Hopefully it's not ad if so he will definitely need to learn to shoot with more lift because that's not going to work very effectively at the NBA level when up against good defenders

[dn0774]

Is this how he normally shoots from distance? Hopefully it's not ad if so he will definitely need to learn to shoot with more lift because that's not going to work very effectively at the NBA level when up against good defenders

His shooting is his Achilles heel right now. If he were a knock down shooter with a higher release he would probably be the 1st pick.

[dbestpro]

Dylan Harper, who measured 6'4.5" in height with both hand length and width at 9.25 inches. His hand length-to-height ratio is about 0.132, indicating exceptionally large hands for his stature. These measurements are significant as larger hand sizes can enhance ball control, passing, and defensive capabilities. The defense potential of Harper and Castle has been overlooked. Castle's hand measurements are at 8.75. Leonard was at .142 compared to his height. Hand size matters in basketball, particularly for guards.

[Sugus]

Dylan Harper, who measured 6'4.5" in height with both hand length and width at 9.25 inches. His hand length-to-height ratio is about 0.132, indicating exceptionally large hands for his stature. These measurements are significant as larger hand sizes can enhance ball control, passing, and defensive capabilities. The defense potential of Harper and Castle has been overlooked. Castle's hand measurements are at 8.75. Leonard was at .142 compared to his height. Hand size matters in basketball, particularly for guards.

Wow, he really has great size for a PG.

6'4.5" equals 194.31cm. That's much taller than players like Ja Morant (1,88m) or even Anthony Edwards (1,93m). The fact that he's got abnormally large hands is absolutely a huge plus as well - the Jordan "palm the ball" effect is real, not to mention higher standing reach.

With Castle standing at 1,98m, it would be quite the plus-sized "backcourt of the future" for the Spurs. I wonder how it stacks against the starting guard lineups of the rest of the league?

I'm really warming up to the guy, what a chance for the Spurs. Now if only he or Castle could learn to knock down jumpers reliably...

[Sugus]

I was curious about the league-wide comparison and, after messing around with some IAs, I've managed to get some preliminary results and info. Some of the lineups are outdated, but it's a good enough comparison at this point for anyone who's interested, I believe.

Here's how a Dylan Harper - Stephon Castle starting backcourt could look like against this season's starting lineups:




Rank
Team
Point Guard (cm) [Player]
Shooting Guard (cm) [Player]
Avg. Height (cm)

1Cleveland Cavaliers185 [Darius Garland]185 [Donovan Mitchell]185.0
2Brooklyn Nets185 [Dennis Schröder]193 [Cam Thomas]189.0
3New York Knicks185 [Jalen Brunson]193 [Donte DiVincenzo]189.0
4Miami Heat185 [Terry Rozier]196 [Tyler Herro]190.5
5Philadelphia 76ers188 [Tyrese Maxey]193 190.5
6Golden State Warriors188 [Stephen Curry]193 [Brandin Podziemski]190.5
7Houston Rockets183 [Fred VanVleet]193 [Jalen Green]188.0
8Washington Wizards183 [Tyus Jones]193 [Jordan Poole]188.0
9Milwaukee Bucks188 [Damian Lillard]193 [Malik Beasley]190.5
10Atlanta Hawks185 [Trae Young]198 [Bogdan Bogdanović]191.5
11Utah Jazz193 [Keyonte George]188 [Collin Sexton]190.5
12Minnesota Timberwolves185 [Mike Conley]193 [Anthony Edwards]189.0
13Los Angeles Clippers196 [James Harden]188 [Norman Powell]192.0
14Memphis Grizzlies188 [Ja Morant]196 [Desmond Bane]192.0
15Toronto Raptors188 [Immanuel Quickley]196 [Gary Trent Jr.]192.0
16Portland Trail Blazers188 [Scoot Henderson]196 [Shaedon Sharpe]192.0
17Boston Celtics193 [Jrue Holiday]193 [Derrick White]193.0
18Indiana Pacers196 [Tyrese Haliburton]193 [Andrew Nembhard]194.5
19Los Angeles Lakers193 [D'Angelo Russell]196 [Austin Reaves]194.5
20Dallas Mavericks201 [Luka Dončić]188 [Kyrie Irving]194.5
21Phoenix Suns196 [Devin Booker]193 [Bradley Beal]194.5
22Denver Nuggets193 [Jamal Murray]196 [Kentavious Caldwell-Pope]194.5
23Sacramento Kings191 [De'Aaron Fox]201 [Kevin Huerter]196.0
24New Orleans Pelicans191 [CJ McCollum]201 [Herb Jones]196.0
25Charlotte Hornets198 [LaMelo Ball]193 [Tre Mann]195.5
26Orlando Magic193 [Jalen Suggs]198 [Anthony Black]195.5
27Detroit Pistons198 [Cade Cunningham]193 [Jaden Ivey]195.5
[B]28San Antonio Spurs194.31 [Dylan Harper]198 [Stephon Castle]196.16
29Chicago Bulls203 [Josh Giddey]196 [Ayo Dosunmu]199.5
30Oklahoma City Thunder198 [Shai Gilgeous-Alexander]203 [Josh Giddey]200.5




With Dylan Harper (194.31 cm) and Stephon Castle (198 cm) projected as the San Antonio Spurs' starting backcourt, their combined height of 392.31 cm would place them among the taller backcourts in the league, surpassing the average backcourt height of approximately 386.08 cm.

This size advantage could provide the Spurs with enhanced versatility on both ends of the court, offering potential benefits in defense, rebounding, and matchup flexibility.

[Limguogolo]

I dream of a Doncic/Poole backcourt. That must be really impressive on defense with that much size.


Mitchell is 1.91cm tall (on wiki).


The best defender is not the one who has the size to defend, it is the one who uses his size to oppose his opponent. There is size, but there is also, possibly, the weight/speed combination.


Nadir Hifi has tiny hands, tiny arms, huge hair, and he defends like a dog. Same thing for TJ Short.


I keep in mind the advice of my first wife: you have at least one thing in common with all my lovers in thinking that size makes the difference, which is why I finally go with the lover who has a very small one but knows how to use it. My second wife will never thank her enough.

[dbestpro]

An interesting name popped up when comparing Dylan Harper to players of 1980s in AI.

Alvin Robertson
Height/Weight: 6'4", 205 lbs

Why: Known for defense, strength, and versatility, Robertson's frame and rebounding guard game mirror Harper’s physical tools. Harper is a better passer and post-up option; Robertson was elite at steals.

[picnroll]

Robertson played in the days when using hands was allowed on D and he had hands like vices, he’d get ahold of you and you weren’t going anywhere. Probably the best MJ defender in his day. Nowhere near as overall skilled on O as Harper projects to be but Harper will never be the defender Robertson was.Don’t see the similarities.

[John B]

Alvin Robertson should’ve been retired by the Spurs tbh. 4x All-Star (3 with the Spurs) and DPOY. I’d retire his jersey before Johnny Moore.

[scott]

Alvin Robertson should’ve been retired by the Spurs tbh. 4x All-Star (3 with the Spurs) and DPOY. I’d retire his jersey before Johnny Moore.

The Spurs don’t typically like to celebrate guys associated with Domestic Violence, Sexual Assault and Human Trafficking.

Alvin also wore #21, who we retired for someone else you might remember.

[baseline bum]

The Spurs don’t typically like to celebrate guys associated with Domestic Violence, Sexual Assault and Human Trafficking.

Alvin also wore #21, who we retired for someone else you might remember.

The human trafficking was a bullshit charge that wrecked Alvin's life right when he had gotten everything back together around ten years ago. The girl's story kept changing and charges were dropped. Cost Alvin a lot of money because everyone jumped the gun and assumed he was guilty because he was a bad person in the 80s and 90s.

[exstatic]

The Spurs don’t typically like to celebrate guys associated with Domestic Violence, Sexual Assault and Human Trafficking.

Alvin also wore #21, who we retired for someone else you might remember.

This. He was a proto Miles Bridges.

[picnroll]

Character issues aside when you put together the 12 best players to ever wear a Spurs’ jersey Robertson is on that team.

[exstatic]

Character issues aside when you put together the 12 best players to ever wear a Spurs’ jersey Robertson is on that team.

Oh, I agree, but he would never wear that uniform now.

[mudyez]

I associate him with the "Game Boy: All Star Challenge" video game. Representing the Spurs.

[buttsR4rebounding]

Only person in NBA history to record a quadruple double with steals.

[drpill]

https://youtu.be/L1YD47f2Ybk

Has this been posted already? Harper vs Flagg one year ago. The game starts out looking like high school all star weekend but it gets pretty serious by the end. It really appears that they're similarly talented players. Our guy looks ultra competitive and on track for stardom.

[scott]

^^^ Not relevant to this discussion, but I thought it interesting... Charles Bassey was MVP of the Jordan Brand Classic International Game as a HS freshman... other Spurs/former Spurs to win MVP of the Jordan Brand Classic: Thad Young, Harrison Barnes, De'Aaron Fox, Lonnie Walker, and of course... future Spur Dylan Harper.

[SupremeGuy]

https://youtu.be/L1YD47f2Ybk

Has this been posted already? Harper vs Flagg one year ago. The game starts out looking like high school all star weekend but it gets pretty serious by the end. It really appears that they're similarly talented players. Our guy looks ultra competitive and on track for stardom.Rucker Park vibes lol

[Manu&Duncan fan]

https://youtu.be/L1YD47f2Ybk

Has this been posted already? Harper vs Flagg one year ago. The game starts out looking like high school all star weekend but it gets pretty serious by the end. It really appears that they're similarly talented players. Our guy looks ultra competitive and on track for stardom.

Harden Vs Garnett. So exciting!

[SpursBills]

The more I dig into the numbers and watch this guy, the more I'm thinking that not only are the Spurs lucky to be able to draft him, he might be dodging a bad developmental situation by ending up on this spurs. I have major reservations about his ability to be a Harden-like heliocentric guy, mostly because his biggest weakness is off-the-dribble shooting. I think if he were drafted into a situation where he was asked to constantly create something from nothing, this would be a much bigger deal because teams would just build a wall in front of him and force him to make something from nothing. He shot <30% OTD last year, his FT% is nothing to write home about, and his shooting priors aren't great either. I think he lacks the ability to develop effective counters if he were tasked with full-time primary ball-handling duties and he might end up as a high-volume low-efficiency flawed initiator and develop some pretty bad habits early in his development.

On the other hand, playing with Wemby/Fox and eventually Castle gives him a much better path to success - I don't think he has the outlier speed or athleticism to consistently make something out of nothing at the next level without a consistent jumper, but attacking a bent defense or utilizing his underrated catch-and-shoot jumper is something he could very easily do in his first couple years of development while the OTD jumper comes. It makes for a much smoother transition into the league for him, although his counting stats may suffer compared to if he were otherwise "the guy" right away in, say, Brooklyn.

[scott]

Was thinking more about Ron Harper's tweets... not that they are that big of a deal, but I'm wondering if part of his "let's wait until his name is called" talk is more about thinking (and maybe pushing the agenda) that Dylan should go #1.

[John B]

https://youtu.be/L1YD47f2Ybk

Has this been posted already? Harper vs Flagg one year ago. The game starts out looking like high school all star weekend but it gets pretty serious by the end. It really appears that they're similarly talented players. Our guy looks ultra competitive and on track for stardom.

Man we got ourselves a real alpha. He’s a man among boys willing himself to the basket. I think that ROTY is going to be a good competition between Flagg and Harper, unless Mitch buries him in the bench in favor of Vassell which would suck because this kid is the real deal

[Limguogolo]

One of the reasons why Flagg would not be happy with Dallas, wouldn't it also be that he would have less chance of competing for the ROY? A price does not condition future salaries? And in this case, at Spurs, he would have been in the same situation anyway. Twice in a row is already exceptional. Three would be a miracle. He might have preferred to be in Washington.

Harper would paradoxically have a better chance of being ROY at Spurs than Flagg at Spurs. And there, we can imagine that it is Castle who is unhappy with Harper's arrival. Both risk being in competition to be Victor's darling. Already Castle was unhappy not to be considered a PG...

Chances for the ROY will be pick 6, 7, 8 or 9, in Washington, Brooklyn, Toronto or New Orleans.

[Ice009]

I don't know, before the draft I said I'd be ecstatic getting a top 4 pick and I wasn't/didn't want to be greedy, but when we came so close to the number one pick, it stung, as Cooper was by far and away the guy I wanted. Also, the other reason being, I thought he'd fit so much better on the Spurs than anyone else in that top 4.

Again, I'm happy with the number 2 pick (absolutely can't complain) and we'll see what happens, but I feel Cooper is going to be great. In all honesty, I think I've talked myself into Harper being just as good as Flagg, but if I had the choice, I'd take Flagg every time. Not sure how many of you guys would take Harper over Cooper if you could choose either of them?

I was excited about the 3 guard lineup, but the closer we get to the draft, I keep thinking that as of now, none of the 3 are considered even good outside shooters. The lack of outside shooting is going to be tough playing all three together if at least 1 or 2 of them don't shoot at least average or above average from 3 point range. I also think all three of them kind of like the ball in their hands, then you have Victor, who also has the ball quite a bit. I'm not sure how all that will work out and if the three of them can all play off the ball.

On a positive note, there's still the possibility of Fox getting better automatically just by having more open looks from 3 point range than he's ever had in his entire career (just due to the attention other players on the team will get), and also Stephon is working his ass of this off-season as I completely knew he would, and I still believe all his hard work off the court/in practice will translate to the games like Kawhi was able to do (I think Steph is a similar type of worker and also someone that can take what he learns on the practice floor into the actual games [I don't remember the exact wording, but this is something Kawhi has said that a lot of players aren't able to do - take what they work on/learn in practice and do it in the actual games. I think he said some guys look great in practice, but can't do it in actual games when it counts])


Was thinking more about Ron Harper's tweets... not that they are that big of a deal, but I'm wondering if part of his "let's wait until his name is called" talk is more about thinking (and maybe pushing the agenda) that Dylan should go #1.

Is he still tweeting stuff, or has he cooled off since the draft lottery? Man, I just don't know who I'd want if the Spurs could pick either of them. I don't know if it's because I've been following Cooper since the start of last season that I have a stronger feeling about him being great. They both have different qualities that could work out great. Cooper would be a better fit and the lineup would be more balance. The 3 guard lineup could have the potential to be absolutely lethal if it works out and the three are all able to play together and off of each other.

I'm starting to think if Harper's dad doesn't want him on the Spurs, I think it might simply be because he won't have the ball in his hands as much as on most of the other teams that could draft him. Even Dallas he will likely get the ball in his hands day 1. I think he might want him on a team where he can be the lead guard and get to run the show. He might be thinking he'll get held back on the Spurs. He might be thinking he won't have a chance for rookie of the year on the Spurs. It could just simply be due to that.

[rjv]

the more i read all these posts about what papa harper thinks about the Spurs based on his tweets, the more i think back to my undergrad class on the conceptual problem of other minds.

[exstatic]

the more i read all these posts about what papa harper thinks about the Spurs based on his tweets, the more i think back to my undergrad class on the conceptual problem of other minds.

Since Ron appears to be the secondary parent, I don’t care what he thinks. The mother is who you need to win over.

[Russ]

Dylan Harper is in a tier (second tier) of one.

You can't pass that up.

[SpursGenius]

Dylan Harper is in a tier (second tier) of one.

You can't pass that up.

Well watch the Jordan Brand Classic. Harper looks a tier above Flagg.

[spursistan]

The mere fact that some professional scouts/ don't think it's an outlandish idea that Harper may one day end up as a better player than Flagg makes this pick a no-brainer.

Contrary to many here, I think Flagg's having a higher translatable floor, therefore making him more bust-proof, is what separates him from Harper, and not his purported ceiling, which is still an open question.

[dn0774]

Well watch the Jordan Brand Classic. Harper looks a tier above Flagg.

I wasn't invested in the early months of the college season (didn't think we would have a good pick due to Hawks and us being average teams at the time) but I recall a narrative forming around January-ish that Harper was seriously challenging that #1 pick spot that Flagg seemed to have locked up. Harper played awesome his first 8ish weeks and Flagg was good, but not incredible which narrowed the perceived gap. Harper later missed a couple stretches of games due to ankle sprain I think and then an illness. He came back from both and had some really rough outings (pro Harper people would say it was lingering effects of injury/illness, anti Harper people would say he was fine and just sucked). Meanwhile, Flagg was healthy till the ankle sprain in the ACC tourney and was able to string together a good stretch of play re-solidifying his #1 ranking.

[exstatic]

I wasn't invested in the early months of the college season (didn't think we would have a good pick due to Hawks and us being average teams at the time) but I recall a narrative forming around January-ish that Harper was seriously challenging that #1 pick spot that Flagg seemed to have locked up. Harper played awesome his first 8ish weeks and Flagg was good, but not incredible which narrowed the perceived gap. Harper later missed a couple stretches of games due to ankle sprain I think and then an illness. He came back from both and had some really rough outings (pro Harper people would say it was lingering effects of injury/illness, anti Harper people would say he was fine and just sucked). Meanwhile, Flagg was healthy till the ankle sprain in the ACC tourney and was able to string together a good stretch of play re-solidifying his #1 ranking.

Flagg struggled early with his 3 point shooting, and if that would have continued, there would have been a race. He cleaned it up, and Harper had his own injury/illness struggles.

[lefty]

Didn’t know he was related to Ron Harper

[rjv]

Since Ron appears to be the secondary parent, I don’t care what he thinks. The mother is who you need to win over.

i wouldn't mind winning her over, tbh.

[Ice009]

Didn’t know he was related to Ron Harper

Are you serious? Where have you been these past two weeks? I would have thought almost everyone knew that.

[lefty]

Are you serious? Where have you been these past two weeks? I would have thought almost everyone knew that.
I’m sorry /-(

[Ice009]

All good. Sorry if I came off a bit harsh. I just thought everyone knew that is his father.

[spurs10]

All good. Sorry if I came off a bit harsh. I just thought everyone knew that is his father. What is Ron Harper saying online that has Spurs fans concerned?

[spurs10]

What is Ron Harper saying online that has Spurs fans concerned? What i've read is all very optimistic.

[SpursFan86]

What i've read is all very optimistic.

I think people are just being sensitive/paranoid. The main thing I saw was just him saying that nothing is guaranteed (in terms of where Harper will end up) and people on Twitter need to stop playing GM because we won’t know what happens until draft day. People interpreted that as some sign Harper isn’t headed to SA but think it’s just normal dad stuff. He knows the NBA is a business and isn’t going to go around celebrating his son being drafted to SA before it’s happened yet.

[spursistan]

https://x.com/mcfNBA/status/1928173160848875611

[Ice009]

I'm guessing Harper is the only guard on that list?

Not sure what positions some of those other guys play? Newell, Goldin, Nelson, not sure where they play? Are they fowards?

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

I'm guessing Harper is the only guard on that list?

Not sure what positions some of those other guys play? Newell, Goldin, Nelson, not sure where they play? Are they fowards?

Most of them are bigs being fed the ball for dunks.

Essengue the closest to a 4 but most of his points come from fast breaks.

A couple of guys create their own shot more often - Raynaud, Yang.

Implication being that Harper is a clear outlier and an amazing driver and finisher, especially considering he was playing in a horrible team with barely any spacing.

[Ice009]

Yeah, cool, thanks. That is awesome then. D-Harper has to be the pick, and run with that. The Spurs won't get an offer to make them want to give it up.

[RC_Drunkford]

https://x.com/mcfNBA/status/1928173160848875611

that's Tony Parker level efficiency by Harper

[Ice009]

I was trying to think who he'd be closer to between Manu and TP (i was thinking Manu due to being left handed and a bit bigger), but maybe Harper could end up being a real combination of the two. That RIM efficiency looks great and very promising.

[rascal]

Most of them are bigs being fed the ball for dunks.

Essengue the closest to a 4 but most of his points come from fast breaks.

A couple of guys create their own shot more often - Raynaud, Yang.

Implication being that Harper is a clear outlier and an amazing driver and finisher, especially considering he was playing in a horrible team with barely any spacing.

Really hope they don't draft Essengue. Doesn't look impressive at all. Skinny kid who doesn't look to be a good shooter.

[rascal]

I was trying to think who he'd be closer to between Manu and TP (i was thinking Manu due to being left handed and a bit bigger), but maybe Harper could end up being a real combination of the two. That RIM efficiency looks great and very promising.

Why the need to compare with past Spurs? Harper is not like either of them.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Really hope they don't draft Essengue. Doesn't look impressive at all. Skinny kid who doesn't look to be a good shooter.

He’s very difficult to evaluate. He can look weird and uncoordinated at times but the combination of youth, tools and production has been a formula for success in the past.

He probably doesn’t last until 14 anyway.

[lefty]

All good. Sorry if I came off a bit harsh. I just thought everyone knew that is his father.

We’re cool :-)

[John B]

https://x.com/mcfNBA/status/1928173160848875611

That’s Tony Parker-esque efficiency there. TP at one point was among leaders in FG% despite being a guard, attacking trees with his wide-arrays of under the rims moves. The most impressive thing was TP rarely dunk. I probably seen him only dunked once, just floaters, spin lay-ups. I don’t know if he coaches anyone because I don’t see any of Spurs players doing his under the basket moves.

[cutewizard]

Duncan was sureball,

Tony was sharp

Manu was otherworldy

---------------------------------

we Spurs fans were spoiled

[Mr. Body]

Really hope they don't draft Essengue. Doesn't look impressive at all. Skinny kid who doesn't look to be a good shooter.

Essengue reminds me a lot of Ousmane Dieng, but probably a bit better, doing better in a better league. God, I still can't believe somebody drafted Dieng.

[exstatic]

Essengue reminds me a lot of Ousmane Dieng, but probably a bit better, doing better in a better league. God, I still can't believe somebody drafted Dieng.

It’s worse than that. They traded 3 FRPs to get the pick used to draft Dieng.

[CorrectCrusader]

https://x.com/mcfNBA/status/1928173160848875611

This is unthinkable when you consider the spacing in that offense.

Dude just has it.

[Mr. Body]

This is unthinkable when you consider the spacing in that offense.

Dude just has it.

And a lot of those bigs were getting set up by guards. Harper's were almost all self created.

[Mugen]

It’s worse than that. They traded 3 FRPs to get the pick used to draft Dieng.

And yet that bum GM's team is about to ring with one of the youngest squads in the league :lol

[scott]

And yet that bum GM's team is about to ring with one of the youngest squads in the league :lol

A GM can do well by putting himself in a position to safely take risks that fail miserably. Dieng not panning out after trading 3 FRPs for him, trading Sengun, trading a guy you took #6 for a high end role player, etc. all seem like things that might doom you… but they are things you can afford to do when you stock the war chest that deep. Seems to be the strategy Ainge is going for as well. Unfortunately he doesn’t have his SGA.

[spurraider21]

A GM can do well by putting himself in a position to safely take risks that fail miserably. Dieng not panning out after trading 3 FRPs for him, trading Sengun, trading a guy you took #6 for a high end role player, etc. all seem like things that might doom you… but they are things you can afford to do when you stock the war chest that deep. Seems to be the strategy Ainge is going for as well. Unfortunately he doesn’t have his SGA.
det paul george haul tho...

that and getting 2 firsts and CP3 for westbrook :lol

[Mr. Body]

And yet that bum GM's team is about to ring with one of the youngest squads in the league :lol

Wow, you completely missed the point. How about that?

[Knoxxx]

I think Ron Harper will turn into a huge Spurs fan all the sudden after the draft. The idea you wouldn’t want your son with a highly regarded franchise playing with the Alien makes DH out to be a lot stupider than he probably is. Plus basketball season takes the summer off, when SA becomes an intolerable inferno for about 3 months in a row.

[scott]

det paul george haul tho...

that and getting 2 firsts and CP3 for westbrook :lol

The true meta build is difficult to put together and requires circumstances falling exactly your way at some point... but I really think its: get a big haul for one of your players at some point; luck into your star and core; built a talent pipeline where you can fill your roster with cheap talent on rookie deals; flip that cheap talent right before they become expensive to replenish the picks by which to refill the talent pipeline; rinse; repeat.

Spurs are set up quite nicely do to this around Wemby/Castle/Fox, which is why I wouldn't hate it if we traded out of of 14 for some more future assets. If we could somehow get some assets out of the Power of Friendship that would be extra cherry, but I'm not really counting on it.

Danny Boy missed the boat and should have cashed in on Lauri last summer.

[exstatic]

The true meta build is difficult to put together and requires circumstances falling exactly your way at some point... but I really think its: get a big haul for one of your players at some point; luck into your star and core; built a talent pipeline where you can fill your roster with cheap talent on rookie deals; flip that cheap talent right before they become expensive to replenish the picks by which to refill the talent pipeline; rinse; repeat.

Spurs are set up quite nicely do to this around Wemby/Castle/Fox, which is why I wouldn't hate it if we traded out of of 14 for some more future assets. If we could somehow get some assets out of the Power of Friendship that would be extra cherry, but I'm not really counting on it.

Danny Boy missed the boat and should have cashed in on Lauri last summer.
Yup. You rarely see him fuck up cashing out assets, but that was dumb. It’ll be very difficult to get anything for a contract that size for, at best, a #3 option.

[mo7888]

I really think its: get a big haul for one of your players at some point; luck into your star and core; built a talent pipeline where you can fill your roster with cheap talent on rookie deals; flip that cheap talent right before they become expensive to replenish the picks by which to refill the talent pipeline; rinse; repeat.



That is why I don't think we keep Harper and Castle if they both pan out in a few years.

[spurraider21]

Yup. You rarely see him fuck up cashing out assets, but that was dumb. It’ll be very difficult to get anything for a contract that size for, at best, a #3 option.
its not even necessariliy because the contract is "bad"... but just by virtue of having to come up with that much salary you are inevitably requiring teams to give up some valuable players, which means they'll be less likely to also throw in the amount of draft comp you wanted. much easier to ask a team for 17 mil in filler + picks as opposed to 46

[scott]

I think Ron Harper will turn into a huge Spurs fan all the sudden after the draft. The idea you wouldn’t want your son with a highly regarded franchise playing with the Alien makes DH out to be a lot stupider than he probably is. Plus basketball season takes the summer off, when SA becomes an intolerable inferno for about 3 months in a row.

I think he thinks his son should go #1 (and who could blame a dad for believing that, and really it's not like it's that far fetched an argument) or maybe wants him to play for the hometown team. I don't get the sense that Harper just hates the Spurs.

[Dejounte]

Ron sacrificed to play with Jordan, I don’t think he’ll be that bad of an influence

[exstatic]

Ron sacrificed to play with Jordan, I don’t think he’ll be that bad of an influence

He was damaged goods at that point. Back in the day, you were lucky to ever play again after an ACL, and you were never the same.

[Manu&Duncan fan]

https://x.com/mcfNBA/status/1928173160848875611

That's why I find it amusing that so many fans want to get Durant and play above Harper.

Harper will be a star in a couple pf years. We need to develop him like that.

[Dejounte]

He was damaged goods at that point. Back in the day, you were lucky to ever play again after an ACL, and you were never the same.

So he was still humbled by something

[Biggems]

I am excited to see Castle, Fox, and Harper on the same roster.

[Mr. Body]

Ron Harper was okay playing fourth fiddle to Jordan or whatever, but that doesn't mean he's okay with his son doing the same. A lot of men try to live through their sons to achieve what they didn't.

Absolutely not saying this is the case - just saying human psychology, especially masculine psychology, because men are fucked up weirdos, doesn't work the way we expect some times. Again, I don't think Ron Harper is going to be a problem whatsoever.

[Guru of Nothing]

If the Spurs draft Harper, I expect to see Harper Sr at games cheering for the Spurs.

[Knoxxx]

If the Spurs draft Harper, I expect to see Harper Sr at games cheering for the Spurs.

Exactly and he’ll be welcomed like an old friend by the big 3, Drob, and co. I think he’ll feel right at home along for the ride. Imagine too when we lure the necessary frontcourt role players the Spurs will be a juggernaut who wouldn’t want to be an insider along for that kind of a ride?

[Manu&Duncan fan]

If the Spurs draft Harper, I expect to see Harper Sr at games cheering for the Spurs.


Yes. Very often in life, your worst enemy can become your best supporter if you show sincere respect and love.

[rankingtear]

Yes. Very often in life, your worst enemy can become your best supporter if you show sincere respect and love.

Cmon man, wtf is happening to this forum. Can we pink or ban manuxduncan for posting this.

[Manu&Duncan fan]

Cmon man, wtf is happening to this forum. Can we pink or ban manuxduncan for posting this.

You don't believe Ron Harper can be a die-hard fan of Spurs? I do.

[exstatic]

You don't believe Ron Harper can be a die-hard fan of Spurs? I do.
He won’t. He’s First Evangelical Church of Phil Jackson.

[jesterbobman]

I posted in the general draft board early that Harper is incredible (in November or something). A comfortable #2.

I can understand why Harper Snr might not love the Spurs fit in the short term- there are established guards who need the ball as they're only OK off ball, he won't have a team to himself like he would if he landed in Washington / Utah / Brooklyn...but if he looks at the future, there's not a better long term fit than a pairing with Wemby.

[SpursGenius]

I am excited to see Castle, Fox, and Harper on the same roster.
Me too . I see Fox as eventual 6th man of the year energizer bunny off the Bench. Harper will be our SGA. Castle hopefully Jalen Williamss. Vic Holmgreen times 2.

[Mr. Body]

Me too . I see Fox as eventual 6th man of the year energizer bunny off the Bench. Harper will be our SGA. Castle hopefully Jalen Williamss. Vic Holmgreen times 2.

I don't see any way that Fox willingly comes off the bench, at all.

[SpursGenius]

I don't see any way that Fox willingly comes off the bench, at all.
Then trade his ass for 4 first rounders. Harper is the truth

[John B]

Sr wants his kid drafted 1st. He’s not conceding his kid is 2nd until the name is called. What father would? But expect Ron Harper to support his son in San Antonio if he’s taken at #2, whether Sr is First Evangelical Church of Phil Jackson or The True Church of Tex Winter.

[Ice009]

I posted in the general draft board early that Harper is incredible (in November or something). A comfortable #2.

I can understand why Harper Snr might not love the Spurs fit in the short term- there are established guards who need the ball as they're only OK off ball, he won't have a team to himself like he would if he landed in Washington / Utah / Brooklyn...but if he looks at the future, there's not a better long term fit than a pairing with Wemby.

Yeah, this is what I think he doesn't like. I think he expected him to land on one of those teams where he'd have the team to himself and it would be built around Dylan instead. He might even prefer Dallas as he'd be the starting guard there too. He'd probably start in on all of those teams except the Spurs.

I remember he said it could be special when one fan asked him about playing for the Spurs and with Victor (I think he can at least see that), but I think he's got real reservations about him being buried behind a bunch of other players and not getting the keys to a team.

Like Exstatic also said, he's from the Phil Jackson school and went against the Spurs when he was with the Lakers, so I doubt he'll ever truly be a Spurs fan (never know, he might come around due to the Spurs having a special player like Victor and other really good players). If any of you guys had a kid/s good enough to be drafted in the NBA as a star level player/s, how would you feel if the Lakers drafted them? Would you be OK with it? I don't think I'd be too happy at all (I may or may not come around), so I guess if I look at it that way, I could see why he wouldn't be too keen on it.

Also, what John_B said could also be true - that he thinks his son should be the number 1 pick, so that could also be a factor. He's not willing to concede he's number 2.

[Ni-G]

Fuck Ron Harper. He's just a father not an uncle and Spurs will not waste such a talent by playing him out of position. It's number 2 pick FFS not some 9th that you can throw around from PG to C. :-)
Draft BPA and figure fit later. We can always trade worst or oldest guard of 3 if it doesn't work.

[Sugus]

I don't see any way that Fox willingly comes off the bench, at all.

Fox looks sadly bound to get traded once Harper starts to show his ceiling with consistency, maybe two seasons from now. He has every right to want to remain a starter (and be paid like one), and the Spurs will probably have no issues giving him a "Dame to Milwaukee" kind of trade destination where he can chase a ring in his late career years.

Considering his wife's background and the way his exit from Sacto went, he's by far the biggest loser from the Spurs' lottery night luck. Sad to think about.

[exstatic]

Sr wants his kid drafted 1st. He’s not conceding his kid is 2nd until the name is called. What father would? But expect Ron Harper to support his son in San Antonio if he’s taken at #2, whether Sr is First Evangelical Church of Phil Jackson or The True Church of Tex Winter.

That wasn’t what was said. There’s a difference between supporting your kid, which I agree Ron will do, and becoming a die hard Spurs fan, which I think he won’t do.

[exstatic]

Fox looks sadly bound to get traded once Harper starts to show his ceiling with consistency, maybe two seasons from now. He has every right to want to remain a starter (and be paid like one), and the Spurs will probably have no issues giving him a "Dame to Milwaukee" kind of trade destination where he can chase a ring in his late career years.

Considering his wife's background and the way his exit from Sacto went, he's by far the biggest loser from the Spurs' lottery night luck. Sad to think about.

I think Fox will get traded,but there no reason to jump the gun. I think you can keep all three for three years, possibly four. That four year point would be Castle being paid, but Harper still on year four of his rookie deal.

[John B]

It’s different when playing in a championship team. Players in their right mind will be willing to do what it takes to win, including possibly coming off the bench or sacrificing salary, especially if such a team would have a chance to become a dynasty, which I think the Spurs will have high chance if they do the right things. I don’t expect Fox to ask out when that time comes. Nor I would expect Ron Harper to wish his son to be in another team by then. Sr knows what it means to be in a dynasty team, whether your son is the number focus or not. It’s a team effort. And who knows? Dylan could very well be the main focus. He has the potential to do so.

I only know of Kawhi who wished to be out of a championship team. But then again I said, players on their right mind.

[SpursFan86]

I think Fox will get traded,but there no reason to jump the gun. I think you can keep all three for three years, possibly four. That four year point would be Castle being paid, but Harper still on year four of his rookie deal.

This. I don’t understand why people are acting like we need to get rid of Fox right now. Harper is an incredible prospect but it’s not like he’s a can’t-miss one. It might take time for him to develop into the player we expect or he might not ever get there.

Hell, it might sound like blasphemy to some here but I still don’t think it’s a given that Castle becomes a star. He showed amazing flashes as a rookie and I think he at least proved that his floor is a solid NBA role player…but if his jump shot never develops and/or he doesn’t turn into a legitimate elite defender then we’re probably not talking about a star.

I’m not saying this because I predict Harper will bust or Castle won’t take a step forward. Just pointing out that it’s super premature to be trying to ship Fox off (or be upset that we have him) at this point. Even with Fox playing 32-34 mpg there is still room for Castle/Harper to both play 30 mpg or more and have chances to develop. I don’t think having Fox around for the first few years is going to stunt their development or anything.

[poopbox]

Fox looks sadly bound to get traded once Harper starts to show his ceiling with consistency, maybe two seasons from now. He has every right to want to remain a starter (and be paid like one), and the Spurs will probably have no issues giving him a "Dame to Milwaukee" kind of trade destination where he can chase a ring in his late career years.

Considering his wife's background and the way his exit from Sacto went, he's by far the biggest loser from the Spurs' lottery night luck. Sad to think about.

Dame never wanted to go to the Bucks though. He wanted to go to Miami.

[poopbox]

This. I don’t understand why people are acting like we need to get rid of Fox right now. Harper is an incredible prospect but it’s not like he’s a can’t-miss one. It might take time for him to develop into the player we expect or he might not ever get there.

Hell, it might sound like blasphemy to some here but I still don’t think it’s a given that Castle becomes a star. He showed amazing flashes as a rookie and I think he at least proved that his floor is a solid NBA role player…but if his jump shot never develops and/or he doesn’t turn into a legitimate elite defender then we’re probably not talking about a star.

I’m not saying this because I predict Harper will bust or Castle won’t take a step forward. Just pointing out that it’s super premature to be trying to ship Fox off (or be upset that we have him) at this point. Even with Fox playing 32-34 mpg there is still room for Castle/Harper to both play 30 mpg or more and have chances to develop. I don’t think having Fox around for the first few years is going to stunt their development or anything.

It's more likely that Castle and Harper never become even as good as Fox so I agree not sure why people are in such a rush to get rid of him.

You go and look through the first 40 pages of the Devin thread and people thought this guy was going to be a Klay Thompson type two all star. Hasn't come close to that and now almost everyone wants him gone.

[Sugus]

I think Fox will get traded,but there no reason to jump the gun. I think you can keep all three for three years, possibly four. That four year point would be Castle being paid, but Harper still on year four of his rookie deal.

I'm not convinced it'll only be a Spurs decision, but maybe a Fox one, if everything goes according to plan. Castle is clearly poised to be a prominent feature for the team, and so should Harper if he's anywhere close to the hype -- we might find a side of De'Aaron that isn't so thrilled about taking a backseat to the "future". This is usually mitigated by the team starting to win a lot, but there's a lot of malcontent players who want their spotlight (cough, LMA) over anything else.

Honestly, this wasn't a concern for me before the draft, but with the probable Harper addition and the multitude of Kings fans' stories about Fox, I've become a bit more wary on the subject. He's clearly a player with a "camp" and baggage, and we don't really know what that might turn into. I surely think the Spurs will always prioritize their future over him, and I believe Fox is all too aware of that.

I hope you're right and we can have 3-4 years of such a loaded guard rotation. But I don't know to what point is Fox on board with that.


Dame never wanted to go to the Bucks though. He wanted to go to Miami.

Yeah, I meant more the "trade to a contender" than his particular destination, since we already know that Fox's only desired place is San Antonio. We'll see what happens, but I don't see the Spurs pulling a "Kawhi to Toronto" on him, quite the opposite, even at the cost of a better return package.

[Mr. Body]

I'm not convinced it'll only be a Spurs decision, but maybe a Fox one, if everything goes according to plan. Castle is clearly poised to be a prominent feature for the team, and so should Harper if he's anywhere close to the hype -- we might find a side of De'Aaron that isn't so thrilled about taking a backseat to the "future". This is usually mitigated by the team starting to win a lot, but there's a lot of malcontent players who want their spotlight (cough, LMA) over anything else.

Honestly, this wasn't a concern for me before the draft, but with the probable Harper addition and the multitude of Kings fans' stories about Fox, I've become a bit more wary on the subject. He's clearly a player with a "camp" and baggage, and we don't really know what that might turn into. I surely think the Spurs will always prioritize their future over him, and I believe Fox is all too aware of that.

I hope you're right and we can have 3-4 years of such a loaded guard rotation. But I don't know to what point is Fox on board with that.



Yeah, I meant more the "trade to a contender" than his particular destination, since we already know that Fox's only desired place is San Antonio. We'll see what happens, but I don't see the Spurs pulling a "Kawhi to Toronto" on him, quite the opposite, even at the cost of a better return package.

Pretty much my thoughts. Way too early to worry about this too much, but IMO what we'd start seeing -- if Castle and Harper become their best versions...

The team and players recognize a player needs to be pared out to ensure they develop correctly and get their proper touches, spacing, structure.

Fox recognizes the team's backcourt future is theirs. He's pushing into his 30s and starting to think about his last contract(s). Getting bumped by younger players entering their prime isn't the best situation, even if he likes it. He has a last shot of helping run a team while looking ahead for himself.

Then there's a question of trading him on a max with truncated production because he's sharing the ball.

Really the weird things here are his attachment to the city and the fact he was just traded here. But again don't worry about this for now. Get the BPA.

[OldMan88]

Who cares if Derek Sr worships Phil Jackson. He’s no longer coaching and there’s no coach like him in the NBA.

[Sugus]

Pretty much my thoughts. Way too early to worry about this too much, but IMO what we'd start seeing -- if Castle and Harper become their best versions...

The team and players recognize a player needs to be pared out to ensure they develop correctly and get their proper touches, spacing, structure.

Fox recognizes the team's backcourt future is theirs. He's pushing into his 30s and starting to think about his last contract(s). Getting bumped by younger players entering their prime isn't the best situation, even if he likes it. He has a last shot of helping run a team while looking ahead for himself.

Then there's a question of trading him on a max with truncated production because he's sharing the ball.

Really the weird things here are his attachment to the city and the fact he was just traded here. But again don't worry about this for now. Get the BPA.

Yeah, absolutely. As much as Fox has committed to the Spurs and asked to be traded here, the team obviously can't prioritize him over building their backcourt of the next 10+ years.

This is another reason that I'd like to see the Spurs bring Kevin Durant this off-season. Not only for the shooting, the vet experience, and the versatility, but also to "make the most of" these last prime Fox seasons before he starts to show signs of decline. It's a chance to turn the Spurs into a meaningful contender, while having Harper learn the ropes slowly while coming off the bench, possibly get deep playoff experience, and also provide Fox with a sense of "utility" for having moved to San Antonio.

This, in addition to Wemby's potentially uncertain health window after the blood clot.... I'd be calling Phoenix daily if I'm Brian Wright.

[exstatic]

Who cares if Derek Sr worships Phil Jackson. He’s no longer coaching and there’s no coach like him in the NBA.

I don’t actually ‘care’, just pointing out that he likely will never be a Spurs ‘fan’. I don’t think that matters all that much, since he seems to be the secondary parent, with his mom much more in his ear, and by his own words’his coach’.

[Mnky]

I'm not convinced it'll only be a Spurs decision, but maybe a Fox one, if everything goes according to plan. Castle is clearly poised to be a prominent feature for the team, and so should Harper if he's anywhere close to the hype -- we might find a side of De'Aaron that isn't so thrilled about taking a backseat to the "future". This is usually mitigated by the team starting to win a lot, but there's a lot of malcontent players who want their spotlight (cough, LMA) over anything else.

Honestly, this wasn't a concern for me before the draft, but with the probable Harper addition and the multitude of Kings fans' stories about Fox, I've become a bit more wary on the subject. He's clearly a player with a "camp" and baggage, and we don't really know what that might turn into. I surely think the Spurs will always prioritize their future over him, and I believe Fox is all too aware of that.

I hope you're right and we can have 3-4 years of such a loaded guard rotation. But I don't know to what point is Fox on board with that.



Yeah, I meant more the "trade to a contender" than his particular destination, since we already know that Fox's only desired place is San Antonio. We'll see what happens, but I don't see the Spurs pulling a "Kawhi to Toronto" on him, quite the opposite, even at the cost of a better return package.

He wanted to play with Castle. He wants less responsibility in the back court. He didn't feel he had the help in Sacramento and teams would just focus on him to beat them. He was pretty vocal about players having to play defense to win in this league.

He knows the spurs were the worse team in the NBA without Wemby. He's been outspoken about being on a losing franchise and how he understands the being patient part of the game as the team becomes competitive.

He doesn't really seem like a guy who will complain about his job being easier, which it will be with 2 dynamic backcourt counterparts.

Not to mention if the spurs make a big move with keldon and vassell, then Harper will be able to run for the 6th man of the year. He would fit perfectly for that as he learns the game.

Its definitely not a problem to have a great backcourt. There's plenty of ball to go around in today's game.

[CGD]

Just listen to the latest KOC podcast, there is definitely an agenda to see Harper elsewhere.

Brooklyn comes up a lot: what would it take for you to make that deal (keeping in mind they have a shit ton of future assets too)?

[Sugus]

He wanted to play with Castle. He wants less responsibility in the back court. He didn't feel he had the help in Sacramento and teams would just focus on him to beat them. He was pretty vocal about players having to play defense to win in this league.

He knows the spurs were the worse team in the NBA without Wemby. He's been outspoken about being on a losing franchise and how he understands the being patient part of the game as the team becomes competitive.

He doesn't really seem like a guy who will complain about his job being easier, which it will be with 2 dynamic backcourt counterparts.

Not to mention if the spurs make a big move with keldon and vassell, then Harper will be able to run for the 6th man of the year. He would fit perfectly for that as he learns the game.

Its definitely not a problem to have a great backcourt. There's plenty of ball to go around in today's game.

I hope you're right..... Insofar as his understanding that he needs the help, even if it leads to a reduced role.

But I've also heard a lot of Kings fans talking about how Fox said all that stuff about wanting help, and sharing the ball, yet played really poorly when Haliburton came into the team, and wasn't a willing distributor/liked sharing the ball-handling duties. Even though it's typical to bad-mouth the star leaving town, I was surprised to see it seemed like a commonly-held view amongst Sacto fans at the time - and certainly shared, on some level, by the Kings FO in order to even green-light the Sabonis trade.

I'm looking forward to next season and seeing the dynamics play out on the court. Winning cures everything, as they say, and hopefully the Spurs can get on with that.

[scott]

Just listen to the latest KOC podcast, there is definitely an agenda to see Harper elsewhere.

Brooklyn comes up a lot: what would it take for you to make that deal (keeping in mind they have a shit ton of future assets too)?

Just my opinion of course...

The Spurs could certainly see it differently, but I don't think the Spurs are in a position to pass up the opportunity to add high end talent to the team (whether via the draft or trade), which makes a trade to BKN really difficult. They have nothing that appeals to us where we are now, and a haul of draft picks (which may never yield an opportunity as good as adding Harper) just doesn't do it for me.

The only trades that have even the slightest bit of appeal to me are ones where we are getting a very promising young player (TMIII, Brandon Miller, maaaaaaaaybe Bilal are the only ones between us and BKN that I'd consider) PLUS their pick (and potentially more) this year. BKN just doesn't have any of that, so they'll need to find another team if they want to talk about number 2, and even then I'm only listening out of courtesy.

Now, if the Spurs scouting department comes back and is less sure about Harper, that certainly changes things... but we don't have that info (and never will) so all we can do is go by what we have and the assumption that Harper is the clear #2 in this draft.

I don't see any real way for BKN to jump up... watching the media twist themselves into pretzels to conduct some mediocre Cam Johnson proposal is funny though.

[scott]

I hope you're right..... Insofar as his understanding that he needs the help, even if it leads to a reduced role.

But I've also heard a lot of Kings fans talking about how Fox said all that stuff about wanting help, and sharing the ball, yet played really poorly when Haliburton came into the team, and wasn't a willing distributor/liked sharing the ball-handling duties. Even though it's typical to bad-mouth the star leaving town, I was surprised to see it seemed like a commonly-held view amongst Sacto fans at the time - and certainly shared, on some level, by the Kings FO in order to even green-light the Sabonis trade.

I'm looking forward to next season and seeing the dynamics play out on the court. Winning cures everything, as they say, and hopefully the Spurs can get on with that.

Hali's rookie year, Fox averaged 25.2/7.2/3.5

In Hali's sophomore season (before he got traded), Fox averaged 21.0/5.2/3.8, but then averaged 28.9/6.8/4.3 after the trade to close out the season.

From Hali year 1, to year 2, his assists/gm increased almost commensurately (+2.1) with the decrease in Fox's assists/game (-2.0) so there might be an argument there that the playmaking burden simply shifted rather than "he wasn't a willing distributor".

Thankfully none of us were forced to watch Kings basketball at that time, so we couldn't really say (between us)... but the numbers don't seem to suggest the claim (though perhaps Fox was complaining about it behind the scenes). Interestingly though, the Kings improved pretty significantly after trading Hali and building around the Fox/Sabonis duo. Seems like it was a smart move to move one of Fox/Hali for Sabonis (by Kings standards)

[Mr. Body]

Just listen to the latest KOC podcast, there is definitely an agenda to see Harper elsewhere.

Brooklyn comes up a lot: what would it take for you to make that deal (keeping in mind they have a shit ton of future assets too)?

I guess if I had to trade Harper, Brooklyn wouldn't do it. I'd either want Tre Johnson or VJ Edgecombe. And then I'd want a pile on top of that, some future picks.

IMO with Harper you're getting a potential second franchise player. If in the horrible case of Vic no longer being able to play or having a short career, at his best outcome Harper can be the guy.

[spurraider21]

Me too . I see Fox as eventual 6th man of the year energizer bunny off the Bench. Harper will be our SGA. Castle hopefully Jalen Williamss. Vic Holmgreen times 2.
Fox is 27. just getting into what are the typical prime years for players. he's eligible for a 4 year extension that would have him under contract through has age 32-33 season. he will not be a backup during any of that window. if harper is so good that he simply has to start and particularly at point guard, there will be a trade.

[Sugus]

Hali's rookie year, Fox averaged 25.2/7.2/3.5

In Hali's sophomore season (before he got traded), Fox averaged 21.0/5.2/3.8, but then averaged 28.9/6.8/4.3 after the trade to close out the season.

From Hali year 1, to year 2, his assists/gm increased almost commensurately (+2.1) with the decrease in Fox's assists/game (-2.0) so there might be an argument there that the playmaking burden simply shifted rather than "he wasn't a willing distributor".

Thankfully none of us were forced to watch Kings basketball at that time, so we couldn't really say (between us)... but the numbers don't seem to suggest the claim (though perhaps Fox was complaining about it behind the scenes). Interestingly though, the Kings improved pretty significantly after trading Hali and building around the Fox/Sabonis duo. Seems like it was a smart move to move one of Fox/Hali for Sabonis (by Kings standards)

Thanks for the numbers man, I'm a lazy ass but really appreciate sourced thoughts :tu

Indeed the statistical dip might have been due to a shift in responsibilities -- which is why the reports from Kings fans about Fox's changed demeanor and effort put into games during Hali's second season were concerning to me; seemingly a bad reaction to a changed dynamic.

I try not to take salty Kings fans' opinions of Fox too seriously given the context of his exit, but I also don't want to dismiss such a consensus in opinions - and from a hearty fanbase like Sacramento, at that - only because there's bad blood there. I feel like most Spurs fans, however vitriolic in their opinions, were very correct and forewarning about the Kawhi situation back when he forced his way off the team, and having gone through that experience.... I'm wary of dismissing the surprisingly consistent reports from Sacto.

Honestly, I want to watch Fox have a good season next year to rid myself of these bad feelings surrounding the trade. I can buy that he'll be different in San Antonio, but I'm slightly wary of his camp and attitude at the moment.

[CGD]

I think for BKN I’d need 8, Cam, and the 3 unprotected Knicks picks they got.

[Gandalf]

I think for BKN I’d need 8, Cam, and the 3 unprotected Knicks picks they got.

The Knicks are going to wreck shop in the Eastern Conference for several years. Knicks picks won’t be worth much.

[exstatic]

Just listen to the latest KOC podcast, there is definitely an agenda to see Harper elsewhere.

Brooklyn comes up a lot: what would it take for you to make that deal (keeping in mind they have a shit ton of future assets too)?

I don’t care about that, and neither do the Spurs. They don’t get caught up in the nba media soap operas and agendas.

[dn0774]

Trading down from #2 had better yield some top tier youngish talent (TM3 types), or a legit star (Giannis types). If all it collects is a solid role player (Cam Johnson types) and some future 1st rounders then absolutely pass on those trades. Personally, I hope the Spurs stay out of the collecting future 1sts business because while I agree they are great assets to have in the warchest, when it comes time to actually collect everything about it sucks.

Watching ATL scrape and claw for every single win they could muster against the dogshit eastern conference with their only real motivation being to screw our draft pick up was agonizing. When you have other teams 1st rounders you know they are going to go all out (because why wouldn't they?) and feast on other teams actually actively tanking. If ATL had their own pick this year we all know it would've been a top 6 or so pick instead of the 14 that we actually got kind of lucky to end up with.

[baseline bum]

Just listen to the latest KOC podcast, there is definitely an agenda to see Harper elsewhere.

Brooklyn comes up a lot: what would it take for you to make that deal (keeping in mind they have a shit ton of future assets too)?

Brooklyn would have to find a way to get Giannis to San Antonio before I even pick up the phone. Giannis is the only person reasonably available that I'd have to seriously think about if offered for Harper. Durant, Jaylen Brown, Booker no thanks, fuck no thanks. Nets have absolutely nothing I want if I'm the Spurs.