Top 30 Spurs Small Forward Free Agent Targets

[Booharv]

14. Tony Allen

When it comes to defense, there's not a player on this list better out on the perimeter than Tony Allen. He's definitely a lockdown one-on-one defender. His offense, though, really makes it questionable whether he could fit on the Spurs. He has no outside jumper to speak of and his shot selection is very iffy. He rebounds well, handles the ball well, can pass ... but his shooting (or lack of) just can't be ignored.

The op is a great post overall, but this part is flat out wrong. Tony Allen has a very weak handle, and annually posts some of the worst turnover ratios of a perimeter player in the league. Mainly its due to his high dribble. I can't remember who said this but I think it was a Boston reporter "The Celtics periodically talk of playing Allen at the point which is a comical proposition, because most point guards keep the ball below their forehead when they dribble."

[clubalien]

Let's be realistic - Spurs will use MLE for Splitter. So our options at SF are limited to LLE. Looking at the list, this is what I like (in that order):

1) Barnes
2) Kleiza
2) McGrady

NBA career achievements

* 2× NBA scoring leader: 2003 (32.1), 2004 (28.0)
* 7× NBA All-Star: 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007
* 7× All-NBA:

* First Team: 2002, 2003
* Second Team: 2001, 2004, 2007
* Third Team: 2005, 2008

* NBA Most Improved Player Award: 2001

[edit] Orlando Magic franchise records

* All-Time Free Throws Made (1,819)
* Most points in one game with 62 (March 10, 2004 vs. Washington Wizards)
* Most points in one half with 37 in the first half (March 9, 2003 vs. Denver Nuggets)
* Most points in one quarter with 25 in the second quarter (March 9, 2003 vs. Denver Nuggets)
* Most free throws made in one game with 18 (December 25, 2002 vs. Detroit Pistons)
* Most points in a playoff game with 46 (in Game 2 of the 2003 Eastern Conference playoffs, First Round vs. Detroit Pistons)
* Most three-point field goals made in one half with 8 (January 26, 2004 vs. Cleveland Cavaliers)

[edit] Career achievements

* Career 40+ point games (regular season): 45
* Career 50+ point games (regular season): 4
* Career 60+ point games (regular season): 1
* Career triple-doubles (regular season): 4
* Shares NBA record for most three-point field goals made in one half with 8 (January 26, 2004 Orlando vs. Cleveland)


sounds better than Rj to me

[objective]

Brewer might slip into LLE territory because of his torn hamstring and no-bird rights after MEM declined his QO of only 3.7 million.

He's a bad fit offensively because he's a revolting 3-point non-shooter and the rest of his offensive game isn't that great but relies on athleticism (who does that sound like?)

As written in this Memphis Flyer article:

Brewer had proven to be a useful rotation player in Utah, but that was in one of the league's most distinctive systems and one especially attuned to Brewer's strengths (athleticism, movement off the ball) and weaknesses (shooting, ball-handling).

In Utah's motion offense, Brewer was able to get his points on cuts away from the ball. Memphis runs more isolation and pick-and-roll style offenses and even though Brewer played only 80 minutes for the Grizzlies last season — and very little of that in optimum condition — it was apparent that he was not an easy fit.

Not adept enough with the ball to create consistently and with too shaky a jumpshot to spot up off the ball, Brewer looked lost with the Grizzlies. Compounding these questions, the team added a couple of similarly sized perimeter players in the draft in Henry and Greivis Vasquez to go with returning rookies Sam Young and DeMarre Carroll. With Mayo and a presumably returning Gay slotted for 35+ minutes each on the perimeter, it was hard to see how all the pieces fit together. The addition of Henry in particular raised questions about Brewer's potential role: Henry plays the same two positions while providing the outside shooting the team desperately needed.

So we have a situation where it seems highly unlikely that his old team will keep him because of salary concerns and 1st round picks to take his role. A Free Agent period where only two players have changed teams and neither was coming off injury and only one got the full MLE.

And if he recovers fully from his injury he'll be an athletic 25 year old 6-7 player who has a lot of playing experience under a hardcore disciplined coach and 223 career starts (plus 17 starts in the playoffs).

That's not bad for the LLE.

[PDXSpursFan]

IMO, Brewer would struggle more than RJ here in SA.

[DPG21920]

You can't tell me that Wright, if he continues his 3pt shooting would not make the team better in place of RJ? Much better fit and defender at a fraction of the cost.

[Booharv]

One more area where this OP is a little deficient is that it ignore Miller's annoying tendency to try and be a point forward that all three of his recent coaches have complained about. Here's a post with three articles linked that talk that are dedicated to his overpassing. The last article from Sports Illustrated even calls the tendency for a scorer to pass the ball way too much, especially when his team needs him to score, the "Mike Miller syndrome". So if the Spurs sign Miller just expect to be frustrated when he passes up open shots and turns over the ball a lot. Tbh he's still good because of his shooting, but a little more research shows that he's driven his last three coaches crazy with this extreme overpassing.

Miller's a great shooter, but everyone knows about his annoying attempt to be a point forward the last few years, right? All 3 of his coaches in the last two years have complained about it, and there have been a bunch of articles (I linked 3 here) talking about it.

Randy Wittman:""We have to get Mike more than four shots, there's no question about that," coach Randy Wittman said. "And Mike's got to work to get more than four shots. Sometimes you get into turning down shots to make the extra pass. Mike does all the right things. [But] at times, he has to be a little selfish, too.""

http://www.startribune.com/sports/wo...3aPc:_Yyc:aUUF

Kevin McHale:""We definitely want Mike shooting [more],"

http://www.startribune.com/sports/wo...7PQLanchO7DiUr

Flip Saunders: "Asked about it, Washington coach Flip Saunders sighs. "We try to get him to shoot, and he tries to come out looking for it," he says, "but if someone's open, he passes the ball.""

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vau...12/2/index.htm

Dwane Casey, Flip Saunders and Kevin McHale have complained about this. In LA he really needs to get back to his bread and butter and stop trying to be Larry Bird. His turnover ratio has ballooned the last two years with his attempts to be a playmaker (19.1 and 19.6).

[objective]

IMO, Brewer would struggle more than RJ here in SA.

Offensively I agree. His playoff career high is only 16, so he would be unlikely to have a big half like RJ did every score of days.

But if was available for the LLE then he would be only 20-25% of the price per year. And reasonable defense early in his athletic prime if he recovers fully from the hamstring tear.

[Agloco]

NBA career achievements

* 2× NBA scoring leader: 2003 (32.1), 2004 (28.0)
* 7× NBA All-Star: 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007
* 7× All-NBA:

* First Team: 2002, 2003
* Second Team: 2001, 2004, 2007
* Third Team: 2005, 2008

* NBA Most Improved Player Award: 2001

[edit] Orlando Magic franchise records

* All-Time Free Throws Made (1,819)
* Most points in one game with 62 (March 10, 2004 vs. Washington Wizards)
* Most points in one half with 37 in the first half (March 9, 2003 vs. Denver Nuggets)
* Most points in one quarter with 25 in the second quarter (March 9, 2003 vs. Denver Nuggets)
* Most free throws made in one game with 18 (December 25, 2002 vs. Detroit Pistons)
* Most points in a playoff game with 46 (in Game 2 of the 2003 Eastern Conference playoffs, First Round vs. Detroit Pistons)
* Most three-point field goals made in one half with 8 (January 26, 2004 vs. Cleveland Cavaliers)

[edit] Career achievements

* Career 40+ point games (regular season): 45
* Career 50+ point games (regular season): 4
* Career 60+ point games (regular season): 1
* Career triple-doubles (regular season): 4
* Shares NBA record for most three-point field goals made in one half with 8 (January 26, 2004 Orlando vs. Cleveland)


sounds better than Rj to me

Sure.........lemme grab a list of Michael Jordan's achievements and make my case for signing him up too.

[Fabbs]

Uh afraid to tell you, but there are times where you have play small ball.

What do you think about bringing Mike Finley back in?

[clubalien]

Sure.........lemme grab a list of Michael Jordan's achievements and make my case for signing him up too.

MJ with a flu in his day > RJ at his peak

[PublicOption]

I like tony allen.

[pad300]

Courtesy of some analysis at
http://dberri.wordpress.com/2010/07/...t-cheat-sheet/

I have indicated in BOLD the players that stick out from this analysis.

1. Mike Miller
Last years WP/48 0.219 Average of Last 3 years WP/48 0.218
2. Josh Childress
N/A (all this is from NBA data only, Childress has been overseas) 0.197
3. Wesley Matthews
0.063 0.063
4. Kyle Korver
0.109 0.057
5. Anthony Morrow
0.084 0.093
6. Travis Outlaw
-0.026 0.023
7. Linas Kleiza
N/A (see Childress) 0.03
8. Josh Howard
-0.058 0.085
9. Ronnie Brewer
0.083 0.149
10. Ryan Gomes
(no Data in Sheet)
11. Matt Barnes
0.188 0.146
12. Dorell Wright
0.167 0.17
13. Rasual Butler
-0.043 -0.003
14. Tony Allen
0.156 0.088
15. Pete Mickeal
(No Data in Sheet)
16. Quentin Richardson
0.18 0.109
17. James Jones
-0.018 0.022
18. Bobby Simmons
-0.032 0.051
19. Tracy McGrady
0.061 0.083
20. Jarvis Hayes
-0.078 -0.005
21. Bostjan Nachbar
(No Data in sheet)
22. Rodney Carney
0.054 0.028
23. Stephen Graham
0.113 0.048
24. Alan Anderson
(No Data in Sheet)
25. Devin Brown
-0.014 0.031
26. Antoine Wright
-0.05 -0.056
27. Joey Graham
(No data in sheet)
28. Dominic McGuire
-0.016 0.064
29. Keith Bogans
0.007 0.064
30. Damien Wilkins
0.117 0.044
For Reference, Richard Jefferson
0.052 0.043

This work suggests that there is hope to find a significantly better player (and fit of course) using the LLE to replace Jefferson. Strong candidates include Wright, Barnes and Richardson.

[objective]

I'd like Barnes as well.

Even though he's a cancer who burns his bridges and will force shots out of the offense, he plays with intensity and a passion that is a useful thing to have on the Spurs. He has the kind of dirty, confrontational defense that you don't get from Jefferson.

And by cancer, I mean that none of his teams have wanted him back. At the end of the 09 season in PHX a radio host who was there for the season ending postgame and season's end media session reported that Barnes had done so much to wear out his welcome that his name wasn't mentioned once by the powers-that-be or the other players in reference to hopes for the next season. He was the only player to be ignored like that, even Alando Tucker got some respectful words.

He also turned down a large multi-year deal (large for him) from the Warriors, money he still hasn't re-couped and possibly never will.

But . . . he can be a useful defender who can knock down 3s somewhat in the playoffs.

[Kindergarten Cop]

MJ with a flu in his day > RJ at his peak

I think that he was referring more to the current age and durability of the players you are comparing. RJ's lack of production had much more to do with not fitting in our offense than it did with his lack of athleticism IMHO. The absolute opposite would be the case with McGrady.

[timvp]

Timvp,

Nice tidbit about Mathews being from San Antonio. But if not mistaken, he's not the only player on your list whose father played for the Spurs. If I remember correctly, Brewer's dad also played for the Spurs and was involved in the trade to get Mike Mitc from Cleveland.

Yeah, get Matthews, Brewer plus keep Temple and the Spurs can run some father-sons games

The op is a great post overall, but this part is flat out wrong. Tony Allen has a very weak handle, and annually posts some of the worst turnover ratios of a perimeter player in the league. Mainly its due to his high dribble. I can't remember who said this but I think it was a Boston reporter "The Celtics periodically talk of playing Allen at the point which is a comical proposition, because most point guards keep the ball below their forehead when they dribble."

Allen has played point guard at time for the Celtics. In my book, any small forward that can play point guard has good handles for a small forward. I'd agree that Allen is a bad ballhandler for a point guard but that turns to an asset when at small forward.

Most of Allen's turnovers are because he makes some of the dumbest decisions on the offensive end. He has bad shot selection, bad pass selection, bad dribbling selection, etc.

You can't tell me that Wright, if he continues his 3pt shooting would not make the team better in place of RJ? Much better fit and defender at a fraction of the cost.

The fact that the Spurs wanted Wright back in the 2004 draft makes me think they've kept close tabs on him. If it weren't for his bad rep, his recent arrest and him showing his Dorell on camera, he'd be a very logical and likely target.

One more area where this OP is a little deficient is that it ignore Miller's annoying tendency to try and be a point forward that all three of his recent coaches have complained about. Here's a post with three articles linked that talk that are dedicated to his overpassing. The last article from Sports Illustrated even calls the tendency for a scorer to pass the ball way too much, especially when his team needs him to score, the "Mike Miller syndrome".

The difference is other teams needed Miller to be a first or second option. On the Spurs, he'd be a fourth or even fifth option most of the time. With that change in dynamic, Miller not using many possessions goes from a bad thing to a good thing. The last thing the Spurs need is another player who requires a ton of shots.

In theory, Miller could be a bigger, better rebounding, better rebounding and maybe even better shooting version of Brent Barry. Miller is going to pass up shots, like Barry, but the threat of his shot will at the very least keep the space spread.

I'd like Barnes as well.

Even though he's a cancer who burns his bridges and will force shots out of the offense, he plays with intensity and a passion that is a useful thing to have on the Spurs. He has the kind of dirty, confrontational defense that you don't get from Jefferson.

.
.
.

But . . . he can be a useful defender who can knock down 3s somewhat in the playoffs.

Yeah, Barnes for the LLE would be a very good signing. There are legit reasons why his value never seems to rise but he's a realistic cheap stop gap.

[Blackjack]

The fact that the Spurs wanted Wright back in the 2004 draft makes me think they've kept close tabs on him. If it weren't for his bad rep, his recent arrest and him showing his Dorell on camera, he'd be a very logical and likely target.

And if it weren't for that resume he wouldn't be available.

[slick'81]

i wouldnt mind wright or barnes

[Dro210]

I like all those guys as options man... Miller, Wright, Barnes, Matthews... I'd be happy to add any of 'em. That could prove to be pretty difficult to do tho. We'll see I guess.

[Solid D]

Timvp,

Nice tidbit about Mathews being from San Antonio. But if not mistaken, he's not the only player on your list whose father played for the Spurs. If I remember correctly, Brewer's dad also played for the Spurs and was involved in the trade to get Mike Mitc from Cleveland.

Yeah, Ron was with the Spurs a couple of times. I was at a game at the HemisFair Arena in 1981 and saw Ron go for 40 points. It was one of 2 games of 40+ points over a 3-game stretch while he was starting in place of an injured Iceman. Ron was traded for Mitc a month later and I always wondered if the Spurs were just showcasing Brewer. For those 3 games, Ron averaged over 30 points. Then, I remember when Ice came back, Gervin went for 40 the very next game.

[HarlemHeat37]

Out of the players on this list + the potential trade rumors in the other thread..a lot of these guys are unrealistic options, but still..

I would be happy with: Mike Miller, Wes Matthews, Dorrell Wright, Batum(just because Portland is involved in that unlikely 3-way rumor), Deng(same as Batum)..

I wouldn't mind: Childress, Korver, Morrow, Kleiza, Matt Barnes(he would be in the middle of "wouldn't mind" and "skeptical"), James Jones(same as Barnes)..

I would be skeptical: Outlaw, Ronnie Brewer, Ryan Gomes, Rasual Butler, Tony Allen(Hairston plays the same way, but would be cheaper, although obviously not as good right now), Q Richardson, Stephen Graham, Devin Brown, Dominic McGuire..

I wouldn't want: Richard Jefferson, Josh Howard, Bobby Simmons, Tracy McGrady, Jarvis Hayes, Rodney Carney, Antoine Wright, Joey Graham, Centerpiece, Damien Wilkins..

[intlspurshk]

Dorrell Wright is the best fit talent wise and is affordable if SPURS acts quickly enough before Heats figure out how to fill their roster. Personality wise he has flaws but he keeps on improving his 3pt shooting while the good personality SPURS player keep on suckng in the playoff (i.e. BONNER) I don't think SPURS can't withstand one player with some personality issues as long as he keeps playing hard on the court with confidence

[TDMVPDPOY]

would marbs/iverson come out and play for us vet minimum?

[pad300]

would marbs/iverson come out and play for us vet minimum?

Why the would we want them to?

[TDMVPDPOY]

Why the would we want them to?

so we can blame them when we tank the season for a no.1 pick

[Kori Ellis]

There's a lot of talk about the Spurs going after Matthews, and everyone thinking he'd be a great fit - if he doesn't stay in Utah. Apparently the Spurs were one of the first to call him when FA began.