RJ-haters roll-call!

[ElNono]

Man, they were so good in that series. What the happened?

Actually, that was the regular season. 11/11/09 as the videos indicate.
RJ did have a really good game in the Dallas series (I think it was the pivotal game 3 IIRC).

As Manu4Tres said, his offense has been inconsistent. It would be easier to cope up with that if his defense would have been better, but at least last season, they seemed to go hand-in-hand (his defensive intensity seemed to vary depending on his touches on offense). I'm just hoping this season they won't be as dependent on each other.

[ElNono]

There's a group of posters who incessantly ed about Mahinmi. There's a group who incessantly ed about d-league players not getting enough minutes. There's a group of posters who always find something about Pop to about. There's a group who is obsessed with Bonner and brings him up in every thread. And there's a group whose new hobby is to on RJ every chance they get.

It's not surprising that all those groups are actually the same group. The usual group of posters will find something to about. They'll follow each other around and jerk each other off to "we hate RJ," "we hate bonner," and "we aren't happy with Pop's rotations" threads. Surprise, surprise.

When all you do is it makes it difficult to finding meaning in your ing, even when you do have a legitimate gripe.

And thanks for the insight, australian Spurs fan.

Don't forget the posters that about other posters ing...

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

This thread is just

To defend myself and friends I associate with that were for R.J being resigned:

-Did we think RJ's play was worthy of the 40 million dollar deal? No we didn't.

-Was RJ the most realistic option for the Spurs this off-season? Yes he was. That is the realistic reality that took place. Not only was he was the best option, but his new deal saved Holt roughly 25 million.

-Do we think he has the chance to improve in his second season? Sure we do. His three point shooting was non-existent from February to the end of the year last year. Any amount of 3 point shooting will be an improvement.

-Does RJ's contract effect the Spurs from adding a significant (more than the MLE) free agent in the near future? No it doesn't. Not with Tim and Manu still on this team for two more seasons. Spurs would have just around the MLE to add anyone significant in the off-season via free agency if either scenario played out.

-Does his deal effect the Spurs from resigning Blair and Hill when their contracts are up? No it doesn't. Their deals are up when Manu's contract is off the books. Spurs will have plenty of money that off-season (30+million in cap room) and will have the nice 11 million dollar expiring contact to use in a trade from that off-season til February. How is that a bad rebuilding situation?


These are the reasons why I was for the R.J signing. I thought from the very get go, he would be the most realistic and best option since the majority of the MLE was going to go to Splitter anyway. Realizing this reality and the fact that R.J's contract doesn't necessarily effect the Spurs rebuilding process and doesn't effect the Hill or Blair being extended whenever that day comes in 3 years is why I was for it. His contract also doesn't necessarily effect Parker being resigned if Parker's new deal is front-loaded (which 95% of contracts are), since Tim's contract is off the books 2 years from now.

If Parker is resigned then yeah R.J's contract might effect Hill and Blair to be both extended. But you have to remember Manu's and Tim's contracts will be off the books by then and if Parker is resigned then I don't think Hill will be a Spur that much longer anyway.


My whole debate wasn't if R.J would improve or not in his second season. It was solely based off the reality of the situation now and the near future.

Fair reasoning. Please understand that I don't have a problem with people who support RJ, whatever their reasons, nor am I trying to convert anyone to a 'hater' - for me, this is just about venting.

To be clear, my major problem with the scenario is this: we're locked into at least another 3 years of mediocre, ill-fitting RJ clogging up the cap, which means he has to play, which stops us from improving at the SF position by re ing potential development of someone we can bring in through the draft, trade or free agency. I just don't think that RJ at 10mil is a salary anyone will touch for 2 years at the very least. We need to be better defending the perimeter to be a true contender, and I don't see him taking us there.

It was definitely the "safe play" to re-sign RJ, although why they massively overpaid (I doubt anyone else was offering more than the MLE, and there was very little interest out there) I'm not sure. But it locks us into mediocrity.

Now is not the time for ultra-safe big picture plays for the Spurs, it's time to take calculated risks e.g. encouraging RJ to take up his option and thus having a 15mil expiring to trade to a team desperate to drop salary, like the Knicks (how about Wilson Chandler and Curry's 11mil expiring for RJ's 15mil expiring, gifting the Knicks extra cap room they're seeking? Chandler would be a much better fit for the Spurs - in particular, a much better defender who could grow playing for Pop). Was this a real possibility (ie. was RJ's agent pushing for this deal - I guess so - but if someone from the team was whispering in his ear from the other direction who knows what he would have chosen to do?)? We'll never know.

In the end, I just think resigninf RJ on the terms we did was a really bad move for the end of Tim and Manu's run.

Translation: "Can we get back to the hating now?"

Yes, you may. Let it be duly noted I have never sparred with you.

I apologise if I am mistaken, and you say I am so I accept it. Sorry.

/thread. In case the RJ lovers haven't noticed, the rest of the WC celebrated when he signed his new deal.

Yes, and the media laughed and made subtle jibes at how good the Spurs FO "usually" are.

I'm having a hard time agreeing with your math.

Hill is an RFA in the summer of 2012. He could take the QO and stay on for one more year. But Hill is as sure a candidate as there ever was for a team making him an offer betting that his team won't be able to afford him.

Even re-signing TD at a reduced rate (75% of current), and convincing Parker to just keep his salary in line with today's at standard increasing increments, the Spurs could very well be over $65 million in commitments without Hill's paltry QO, not including future firsts or future MLEs or LLEs and with only 8 playuers.

Indeed.

So if we don't just love and accept we hate the Spurs? Your are hitting that next level in your relationship with RJ.

Spot on.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Wow . . . six pages in one day. Benefactor is going to be so jealous.

My -stirring paid off then.

Ecomoically speaking, the Spurs made a terrible move by investing this kind of money in RJ & Bonner. There is no side stepping that. You may understand the logic of the moves, but essentially the choose the lesser of two evils. That does not mean they did something good. They were able to side step the LT (which could change even this season) for one year. But it's coming next year, especially if they re-sign TP which IMO is likely.

They robbed Peter to pay Paul, and even if it makes some sense, it was still a bad move. They very easily could have kept RJ as an expiring and been no worse off basketball wise and better off financially long term. Instead they choose the 1-year reprieve.

Well said, sir.

[spurs10]

That's cool. I just get a kick out of imagining Captain Beefheart and Tom Waits discussing basketball.

With avatar's of Cpt.Beefheart and Waits...must not be horrible people, y'know?

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Well you did keep Bonner and gave us Scola

That was fiscally intelligent

We all hate you eternally, but well played.

I was surprised RJ was so sucky last year. I really thought he was a better player. The worst was how he GAVE UP even trying to shoot 3's, when he has been a decent 3pt shooter and should have been able to get it together. What kind of player, at his age and experience level, gets so psyched out that they totally give up? But I am a Spur fan so I have to believe that maybe he plays better this year.

I hope eternally, but believing in RJ is difficult.

Wanna come in here and apologize for starting shot. This was a thread dedicated to a certain section of people on the forum I obviously disagree with and again sorry and carry on.

That's very decent of you, sir.

lol humor/sarcasm cop out.

lol no comprehension skills

Begone! Back to the NBA Forum with you evil spirits!

No, the difference is that Stoudamire was a good shooter and facilitator before getting that ridiculous instruction. Pop started throwing that around to guys thinking they were suddenly going to scrore more points because they were relaxed, but being yelled at for not taking a shot is no less stressful than being yelled at for taking a shot, so shooting percentages don't go up.

The Spurs' offense used to be to look for the most high percentage shot and to take as much time as necessary to do it. Pop now has them taking the first shot that's open, which is usually far from the basket and partially defended. And no, none of these guys are playing harder on defense after getting the "shoot if you're open" command.

RJ has a number of ways he can help on offense. Shooting the ball from outside each and every time he's open ain't one of them.

That kinda stuff is why this man is wearing is an all-star medal.

There's a group of posters who incessantly ed about Mahinmi. There's a group who incessantly ed about d-league players not getting enough minutes. There's a group of posters who always find something about Pop to about. There's a group who is obsessed with Bonner and brings him up in every thread. And there's a group whose new hobby is to on RJ every chance they get.

It's not surprising that all those groups are actually the same group. The usual group of posters will find something to about. They'll follow each other around and jerk each other off to "we hate RJ," "we hate bonner," and "we aren't happy with Pop's rotations" threads. Surprise, surprise.

When all you do is it makes it difficult to finding meaning in your ing, even when you do have a legitimate gripe.

And thanks for the insight, australian Spurs fan.

Yeah, except I am usually the one calling for calm and not ing about the bloody team. So your post only works in Bizarro World. And besides, as I have stated a number of times, this is a venting thread, nothing more. Have fun with it or go find something better to do. Easy choice.







I'm back, boys and girls!

Well, kinda sorta back anyway...

[objective]

Now is not the time for ultra-safe big picture plays for the Spurs, it's time to take calculated risks e.g. encouraging RJ to take up his option and thus having a 15mil expiring to trade to a team desperate to drop salary, like the Knicks (how about Wilson Chandler and Curry's 11mil expiring for RJ's 15mil expiring, gifting the Knicks extra cap room they're seeking? Chandler would be a much better fit for the Spurs - in particular, a much better defender who could grow playing for Pop). Was this a real possibility (ie. was RJ's agent pushing for this deal - I guess so - but if someone from the team was whispering in his ear from the other direction who knows what he would have chosen to do?)? We'll never know.

While I see what you're saying about RJ's deal and agree, I don't think your particular trade would be realistic. If the Knicks wanted out from Chandler they could just renounce him or not give him a qualifying offer this summer.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

While I see what you're saying about RJ's deal and agree, I don't think your particular trade would be realistic. If the Knicks wanted out from Chandler they could just renounce him or not give him a qualifying offer this summer.

Fair call, it was just an example of what a 15mil expiring might do at the lower end. No idea what other deals may have materialised. Now we'll never know.

[benefactor]

Actually, that was the regular season. 11/11/09 as the videos indicate.
RJ did have a really good game in the Dallas series (I think it was the pivotal game 3 IIRC).

It was Game 2 and it was more like one really good half. He had 19pts, but all but 2 of that was in the first half. He had a pretty good game in Game 4 too.

That's pretty much RJ in a nuts though. TBQH, I'd be happy if he could just be that inconsistent consistently.

[ohmwrecker]

Actually, that was the regular season. 11/11/09 as the videos indicate.
RJ did have a really good game in the Dallas series (I think it was the pivotal game 3 IIRC).

Yeah, I don't really know why I quoted those videos . . . I was making a general statement about the whole team (not just RJ). There's another thread where I was harping on the duality of the Spurs in last season's playoffs. I got confused for a minute.

[jag]

Don't forget the posters that about other posters ing...

we all have roles...

[ElNono]

we all have roles...

[phxspurfan]

[Fabbs]

Is this Ohmwrecker, ElNono and _Jag?

[ElNono]

Those are the next pop sensation: The Popazit Girrrrls...

[BackHome]

You need to change the le to "RC-hater roll call" because it is not RJ fault that he sucks playing in a halfcourt offense. It is the person who came up with the plan to bring a guy who's game is based on fast past transition ball where people can pass and he can dunk. Other then that his skills are very basic.........So put me down for RC sucks for getting RJ and RC sucks for letting Scola go...

To be honest RC doesn't suck but those two descions get you the bone head of the year award!

[z0sa]

Ruff must be pissed to start the season.

[Cessation]

Eat flacid , haters, cause its all you deserve!!

[Leonard Curse]

im glad someone revived this thread right here!! i am guilty of pop bashing but i will never be ashamed of that. b/c he can be one stubborn s.o.b.

however it was only a matter of time b4 RJ came out to play like RJ. all 10yrs hes been explosive and deadly thats not going to end w/ one mediocre season

[EricB]

Ruff must be pissed to start the season.

" ting tears" I believe was his words.

[mingus]

I totally nailed it with everything I've said about RJ.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Ruff must be pissed to start the season.

Why? I'm overjoyed! If you read the thread I repeatedly stated that I hoped he'd prove me wrong, which is what he's doing, offensively anyway. He's still no lockdown defender, but he was never going to be so I won't hold that against him. RJ is playing excellent basketball at this point and I'm really happy to see it, happy that (at least at this very early point in the season) he's proving me wrong. Let's hope it continues.

PS I still think he was massively overpaid, I still think we'll come to regret his contract, and he's never going to be the lockdown perimeter defender we so badly lack. We'll have to find that elsewhere. But I am glad he looks a lot better out there than he ever did last year.

PPS Probably wise to save your crowing until later in the season. The first month means very little because most teams are still finding their feet.

[MaNu4Tres]

PPS Probably wise to save your crowing until later in the season. The first month means very little because most teams are still finding their feet.

Says the guy who ragged on him and started this thread after a couple of preseason games.

[AusSpursFan]

I think you have been had with this one. RJ deserves credit for his offseason work. For someone to recognise their faults, and then do something about it, earns my respect.

[ezau]

Why? I'm overjoyed! If you read the thread I repeatedly stated that I hoped he'd prove me wrong, which is what he's doing, offensively anyway. He's still no lockdown defender, but he was never going to be so I won't hold that against him. RJ is playing excellent basketball at this point and I'm really happy to see it, happy that (at least at this very early point in the season) he's proving me wrong. Let's hope it continues.

PS I still think he was massively overpaid, I still think we'll come to regret his contract, and he's never going to be the lockdown perimeter defender we so badly lack. We'll have to find that elsewhere. But I am glad he looks a lot better out there than he ever did last year.

PPS Probably wise to save your crowing until later in the season. The first month means very little because most teams are still finding their feet.

For the past four games, RJ has been the leading scorer of the Spurs. Now let that stew for a while before you reply