RJ-haters roll-call!

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

And where are all the RJ lovers who heaped so much on me for even suggesting that re-signing the guy to an albatross contract wouldn't help us to get anywhere? Where are they right now? Crying in their beer like the rest of us. I hope they're happy that our cap is hamstrung and we'll have this guy around for another 2-3 seasons...

[TDMVPDPOY]

lol rjs contribution same with bonner < splitter in his limited time grizz series....

[MI21]

Sadly, Ruff was correct and seen what many couldn't.

His early season shooting and that's all it was - not form, not improved play, just improved shooting - was fool's gold and the same weaknesses were still there once the perimeter shooting dried up.

[ElNono]

But there was nobody else to sign

Memphis waited and got Tony Allen and Battier...

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Sadly, Ruff was correct and seen what many couldn't.

His early season shooting and that's all it was - not form, not improved play, just improved shooting - was fool's gold and the same weaknesses were still there once the perimeter shooting dried up.

There were more folks than just Ruff who saw this for the colossal mistake it was last summer. Unfortunately, our dip coach wasn't one of them.

[Brutalis]

Ruff pwnd some of you guys.

I'll sign off on this I hate RJ stuff. This guy is a complete waste. Soft... omg soft.

[MI21]

There were more folks than just Ruff who saw this for the colossal mistake it was last summer. Unfortunately, our dip coach wasn't one of them.

Oh, for sure. But Ruff is definitely leader of the pack, this thread is testament to it.

[DPG21920]

Haters fan club is not referring to literally hating RJ. The expected suckiness is not just pessimism considering we have seen what RJ can do in the Spurs system.

Could he improve and does everyone want that (or most everyone)? Yes. Is there any real strong indication of that at this point? Not really.

Ecomoically speaking, the Spurs made a terrible move by investing this kind of money in RJ & Bonner. There is no side stepping that. You may understand the logic of the moves, but essentially the choose the lesser of two evils. That does not mean they did something good. They were able to side step the LT (which could change even this season) for one year. But it's coming next year, especially if they re-sign TP which IMO is likely.

They robbed Peter to pay Paul, and even if it makes some sense, it was still a bad move. They very easily could have kept RJ as an expiring and been no worse off basketball wise and better off financially long term. Instead they choose the 1-year reprieve.

He didn't have us all fooled.

[Chomag]

ing useless and a waste of Space and money. Sorry for the language.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Sadly, Ruff was correct and seen what many couldn't.

His early season shooting and that's all it was - not form, not improved play, just improved shooting - was fool's gold and the same weaknesses were still there once the perimeter shooting dried up.

Thanks mate, kinda... just as I was happy to be proven wrong early in the season (he did look like a better much better fit for the first month), I'm sad to be proven right at the end of the season.

Once most athletes are past 25 you know exactly what you will get from them, and there was no reason to believe RJ would be any different. How he blinded the Spurs to this axiom and duped them out of 40mil is the surprising part.

There were more folks than just Ruff who saw this for the colossal mistake it was last summer. Unfortunately, our dip coach wasn't one of them.

Yup, it wasn't just me, there were a few others, but few people had my back in this thread or elsewhere at the time. Most towed the party line. Regardless of anything else, that contract should never have made any sense to anyone looking at the big picture.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

His contract is a huge albatross. I can't imagine any team being stupid enough to take him in a trade. The Spurs are most likely stuck with him and he should only be playing about 10-12 minutes a game, but he will probably continue to start.

...and that was the original reason for the thread. We have now come full circle.

[MaNu4Tres]

This was posted 10/23/2010.

This thread is just

To defend myself and friends I associate with that were for R.J being resigned:

-Did we think RJ's play was worthy of the 40 million dollar deal? No we didn't.

-Was RJ the most realistic option for the Spurs this off-season? Yes he was. That is the realistic reality that took place. Not only was he was the best option, but his new deal saved Holt roughly 25 million.

-Do we think he has the chance to improve in his second season? Sure we do. His three point shooting was non-existent from February to the end of the year last year. Any amount of 3 point shooting will be an improvement.

-Does RJ's contract effect the Spurs from adding a significant (more than the MLE) free agent in the near future? No it doesn't. Not with Tim and Manu still on this team for two more seasons. Spurs would have just around the MLE to add anyone significant in the off-season via free agency if either scenario played out.

-Does his deal effect the Spurs from resigning Blair and Hill when their contracts are up? No it doesn't. Their deals are up when Manu's contract is off the books. Spurs will have plenty of money that off-season (30+million in cap room) and will have the nice 11 million dollar expiring contact to use in a trade from that off-season til February. How is that a bad rebuilding situation?


These are the reasons why I was for the R.J signing. I thought from the very get go, he would be the most realistic and best option since the majority of the MLE was going to go to Splitter anyway. Realizing this reality and the fact that R.J's contract doesn't necessarily effect the Spurs rebuilding process and doesn't effect the Hill or Blair being extended whenever that day comes in 3 years is why I was for it. His contract also doesn't necessarily effect Parker being resigned if Parker's new deal is front-loaded (which 95% of contracts are), since Tim's contract is off the books 2 years from now.

If Parker is resigned then yeah R.J's contract might effect Hill and Blair to be both extended. But you have to remember Manu's and Tim's contracts will be off the books by then and if Parker is resigned then I don't think Hill will be a Spur that much longer anyway.


My whole debate wasn't if R.J would improve or not in his second season. It was solely based off the reality of the situation now and the near future.

Even though R.J showed some improvements this year, he was absolutely pathetic the past 3 games and much of late in the year. Which obviously contributed to the Spurs abrupt demise this post-season. Spurs need to do what they can to get rid of him. I personally believe packaging Blair and a late first round pick can get some negotiations going. (For those who are asking why Blair--Blair's contract will be up in 2 years anyway; his salary value will go up 500-600%. Meaning it's highly doubtful Spurs would consider resigning an undersized big at that price anyway. Therefore trading him now should be easy. Especially if they are rebuilding, which most likely will be the case. Therefore sweetening a RJ deal with Blair has to be considered now.)

If they can get rid of Rasho and Malik's contract, I'm hoping they can get rid of R.J's. Only time will tell.

But yeah, R.J was ing pathetic the past 3 games. Jesus. Ultimately, Ruff, Nono, benefactor, HH, DPG and many others were right on him not improving. (Even though that never was my main argument against them.)

It's been a fun ride guys. But the championship window is sealed shut for a while tbh..

[Obstructed_View]

I didn't see any posts in here predicting that he'd show us how good he could have been, only to fade into oblivion when we needed him most. His expiring contract would have brought something pretty nice when he was playing as great as he was halfway through the season, though. That should have been the plan when he showed no improvement as a defender, and is further indictment of the decision to give him a new contract.

And I'm still unsure how the math works where people say that RJ's contract "saved" money. It "saved" luxury tax, but the total cost of the new contract was more actual dollars than the original contract. It also saddled the Spurs with an overpaid, aging player who has zero market value.

It's pretty clear that the Spurs violated the spirit of the rules if not the letter in resigning RJ, so I guess this is karma saying "thanks for playing".

[bongraider]

damn this guy. he used to be in attack mode all the time in jersey, shat on everyone. now he's like stuck on the hardwood, barely moves. i didnt know people would fall off that quick.

[TJastal]

This was posted 10/23/2010.




Even though R.J showed some improvements this year, he was absolutely pathetic the past 3 games and much of late in the year. Which obviously contributed to the Spurs abrupt demise this post-season. Spurs need to do what they can to get rid of him. I personally believe packaging Blair and a late first round pick can get some negotiations going. (For those who are asking why Blair--Blair's contract will be up in 2 years anyway; his salary value will go up 500-600%. Meaning it's highly doubtful Spurs would consider resigning an undersized big at that price anyway. Therefore trading him now should be easy. Especially if they are rebuilding, which most likely will be the case. Therefore sweetening a RJ deal with Blair has to be considered now.)

If they can get rid of Rasho and Malik's contract, I'm hoping they can get rid of R.J's. Only time will tell.

But yeah, R.J was ing pathetic the past 3 games. Jesus. Ultimately, Ruff, Nono, benefactor, HH, DPG and many others were right on him not improving. (Even though that never was my main argument against them.)

It's been a fun ride guys. But the championship window is sealed shut for a while tbh..

Just out of curiousity, knowing what you know now about RJ, would you still say he was the best option at the time?

(I'm willing to bet you think so).

[MaNu4Tres]

Just out of curiousity, knowing what you know now about RJ, would you still say he was the best option at the time?
l

Judging by the critical past 4 games? no.

Judging by 80-85% of the regular season and the first 2 playoff games-- Yes he was.

[ElNono]

Need to look forward at this point... the CBA officially expires at season's end, and there doesn't seem to be any deal in sight. If there's a shortened season, there might not be even time to ship his ass off, so I suspect he'll stick around. Spurs should actively try to trade his ass though...

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

This was posted 10/23/2010.

Even though R.J showed some improvements this year, he was absolutely pathetic the past 3 games and much of late in the year. Which obviously contributed to the Spurs abrupt demise this post-season. Spurs need to do what they can to get rid of him. I personally believe packaging Blair and a late first round pick can get some negotiations going. (For those who are asking why Blair--Blair's contract will be up in 2 years anyway; his salary value will go up 500-600%. Meaning it's highly doubtful Spurs would consider resigning an undersized big at that price anyway. Therefore trading him now should be easy. Especially if they are rebuilding, which most likely will be the case. Therefore sweetening a RJ deal with Blair has to be considered now.)

If they can get rid of Rasho and Malik's contract, I'm hoping they can get rid of R.J's. Only time will tell.

But yeah, R.J was ing pathetic the past 3 games. Jesus. Ultimately, Ruff, Nono, benefactor, HH, DPG and many others were right on him not improving. (Even though that never was my main argument against them.)

It's been a fun ride guys. But the championship window is sealed shut for a while tbh..

Fair enough.

I didn't see any posts in here predicting that he'd show us how good he could have been, only to fade into oblivion when we needed him most. His expiring contract would have brought something pretty nice when he was playing as great as he was halfway through the season, though. That should have been the plan when he showed no improvement as a defender, and is further indictment of the decision to give him a new contract.

And I'm still unsure how the math works where people say that RJ's contract "saved" money. It "saved" luxury tax, but the total cost of the new contract was more actual dollars than the original contract. It also saddled the Spurs with an overpaid, aging player who has zero market value.

It's pretty clear that the Spurs violated the spirit of the rules if not the letter in resigning RJ, so I guess this is karma saying "thanks for playing".

Yeah, karma eh? We kinda cheated to get something we shouldn't have desired in the first place and got ed on the deal both ways. Serves us right. Act with pure intent.

Oh yeah, and we paid the guy 25mil more than we had to - he would have been a nice expiring contract to deal, or at the very least a lot of space under the lux tax or whatever the cap is in the next CBA.

[Obstructed_View]

Yep, he should take a page from the Greeks and base his game on a complete lack of athleticism.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I didn't see any posts in here predicting that he'd show us how good he could have been, only to fade into oblivion when we needed him most. His expiring contract would have brought something pretty nice when he was playing as great as he was halfway through the season, though. That should have been the plan when he showed no improvement as a defender, and is further indictment of the decision to give him a new contract.

And I'm still unsure how the math works where people say that RJ's contract "saved" money. It "saved" luxury tax, but the total cost of the new contract was more actual dollars than the original contract. It also saddled the Spurs with an overpaid, aging player who has zero market value.

Yep, imagine RJ playing the way he was at the trade deadline

Woulda found a taker no problem.

The whole 'saving' thing is that we would have been over the luxury tax this year on his original deal, and it would have been about $10 million worth.

It's a flawed argument. Go ask Peter Holt how much he made off the Spurs last championship run. Because he pissed that down the drain when he let Pop bring back Air Gay.

[1Parker1]

@ Air Gay....that's actually a suitable nick name for him.

[Hoops Czar]

Stop bumping bull threads. RJ is the player who put a nail through the Duncan's coffin. His ballbusting contract was a huge gamble and the Spurs front office just didn't do their homework.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

All that said, someone will be willing to take him.

My thoughts:

Cleveland. Might have to take Antawn's contract and something else back thought.

Charlotte. Have Tim call Buckets and have him start being even more of a frustrated punk than he has been about how things have shaken out in Charlotte. Salaries are close enough. Stephen Jackson, come on down.

Detroit. They are a mess, Tayshaun is a free agent this summer, and they want to get rid of Rip this summer. Why not...

Golden State. Nellie owes us, because his crack induced lineup methodology has been embraced by Pop. Bonus, RJ loves to run, and could play third wheel to Ellis and Curry.

NJ. Rod Thorn is a so it probably wouldn't happen, but I'd happily trade for Outlaw.

Orlando. Way over the cap and have $30 million tied up at the PG position This would sound crazy, but I'd actually be okay with the Spurs swapping RJ for a slightly higher paid Hedo Turkoglu and hoping the guy can find the magic again from his last deep playoff run. Or maybe a Jameer/Brandon Bass for RJ/Hill swap (still saves a little cash for them).

Philly. Only if we could get Brand from them. Another play for cap savings here (for them, not us).

Washington. Hold your nose, send them RJ, Bonner, and Dice's contract for Rashard Lewis and hope he has two more serviceable years left while you're paying him $45 million.

[timtonymanu]

Richard Jefferson! Bonner, Finley > RJ

[objective]

The jury already returned their verdict and found RJ guilty of being a massively overpaid, underperforming contract albatross who could cost the Spurs retaining current players and the opportunity costs of future players acquired through trade while being a poor playoff performer.

RJ is free to appeal the decision at the end of the season.

The end of the season has come. Still guilty of being TRASH.

And, no surprise, I was correct.

But he was even worse than last playoffs. WHEN HE WAS AWFUL.

Signing him was a gigantic nightmare. All the evidence as to why they shouldn't sign him was right there staring everybody in the face and broken down numerous times.

And yes, a second rounder or undrafted free agent or whoever that hasn't demonstrated awfulness would have been better than Jefferson.

It's not changing, except that he'll get worse.

The best thing for this franchise is for him to not be in uniform. It's a pipedream to hope to dump him in a deal with Blair or even both Blair and Hill, though that would make me incredibly happy.

Even if he's still under contract with the Spurs, he can not be allowed into uniform. Make him like Tinsley or Eddy Curry, just get him away from a jersey and pay him to stay on the partyboat.