Official All Kobe, All The Time Thread

[JamStone]

A: 42.1 MPG, 1.56 SPG, 0.56 BPG, 2.28 TO
B: 42.3 MPG, 1.83 SPG, 1.00 BPG, 3.58 TO

I myself don't know how to calculate PER.

[Chieflion]

A: 42.1 MPG, 1.56 SPG, 0.56 BPG, 2.28 TO
B: 42.3 MPG, 1.83 SPG, 1.00 BPG, 3.58 TO

I myself don't know how to calculate PER.

That's ok. I think I have a rough idea of things here now. So the difference in minutes is negligible. Statistically speaking, player B looks to be better defensively than player A. Problem here is while player B dishes out more assists, he also is significantly turning the ball over more. I still go with player B here, but only by a slight margin. Ask me on another day, I might pick player A.

[JamStone]

That's ok. I think I have a rough idea of things here now. So the difference in minutes is negligible. Statistically speaking, player B looks to be better defensively than player A. Problem here is while player B dishes out more assists, he also is significantly turning the ball over more. I still go with player B here, but only by a slight margin. Ask me on another day, I might pick player A.

Are these real players or what? I am only asking because I can't find those numbers on basketball reference. It seems really off, and you said you can't calculate PER, so it must be fake players.

Player A: Michael Jordan's combined NBA Finals statistics in the second three peat (1996, 1997, 1998 NBA Finals)

Player B: Kobe Bryant's combined NBA Finals statistics in the last two seasons (2009, 2010 NBA Finals)

[Chieflion]

Player A: Michael Jordan's combined NBA Finals statistics in the second three peat (1996, 1997, 1998 NBA Finals)

Player B: Kobe Bryant's combined NBA Finals statistics in the last two seasons (2009, 2010 NBA Finals)

Okay, thanks. I am still 50-50 on this though.

[Killakobe81]

Kobe doesn't have a son, he has 2 daughters. Scary to think if he had a son, what kind of a ball player he could turn out to be. However, maybe not. Most NBA offspring don't overshadow their dad's as Kobe has....Still, Kobe is a great player, but I don't see why fans are so obsessed with him. Love him or hate him, I think the feuders fuel each other.

Well said ...

[himat]

Kobe's not better than MJ yet. And when his credentials improve in the next few years (if he wins a title, scoring champ, MVP, etc.) I still think it would be hard to compare b/c they played in 2 different eras.

If you take a look at statistics, MJ is better in almost every category for his career. He still has one more ring, and he brought up a franchise that has nothing in its history except for the Jordan era.

Huge Kobe fan, but I won't say he's better than MJ yet.

[Venti Quattro]

Yes it's pretty obvious that he's not at Jordan level yet. Jordan changed the game, especially for shooting guards. Kobe's so far doing a good job of replicating the game-changer.

[himat]

Yes it's pretty obvious that he's not at Jordan level yet. Jordan changed the game, especially for shooting guards. Kobe's so far doing a good job of replicating the game-changer.

Honestly who cares? Dude has won the past 2 championships and has grown as a leader. I don't really care if he isn't better than Jordan, he's the best the league has had in a long time and is still the best right now (yeah f u LeBron).

If you guys even think LeBron gets media attention...imagine what it will be like if he wins a championship.

[fevertrees]

since Lebron is the new heel of the NBA will Kobe turn face and stop the NWO?

[LakerHater]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_CqDk4jAv_Y4/TBhWPwFeFzI/AAAAAAAAERk/uNI-wOuISMk/s1600/02.jpg

[midnightpulp]

6-24.

[cobbler]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_CqDk4jAv_Y4/TBhWPwFeFzI/AAAAAAAAERk/uNI-wOuISMk/s1600/02.jpg

:lmao:lmao:lmao

Now that IS funny!!!

:toast

[Goran Dragic]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_CqDk4jAv_Y4/TBhWPwFeFzI/AAAAAAAAERk/uNI-wOuISMk/s1600/02.jpg


:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

[DAF86]

I would take player B because his TS% should be more impressive than player A, even if it is by a slight margin, meaning he is more efficient while scoring only 0.8 PPG lesser, all while having more influence on the boards and assisting his teammates for shots. If you could list the turnovers per game as well, that would be very helpful as we can look at the assist to turnover ratio, as well as to list the minutes played per game and the PER, steals and blocks because the stats here are not complete and from a statistical point of view do not tell the whole story. If by someway, because offensively, player B in this instance is better than player A slightly, player A has a massive advantage in defense over player B, my pick would be player A.

Not necessarily true, that depends on FT attempts.

And how can you say that a player has a massive advantage in defense over the other by just looking at stats?

[Chieflion]

Not necessarily true, that depends on FT attempts.

And how can you say that a player has a massive advantage in defense over the other by just looking at stats?

I could only have commented through the stats given. Besides, I believe that both players got roughly about the same FT attempts, slightly more for MJ. And the stats also showed Kobe had more rebounds and assists.

[HarlemHeat37]

:lol 6-24..

[cobbler]

:lobt: :toast

[Venti Quattro]

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Watch them while they're hot. Youtube might take it down one day and it will be too late for you.

[HarlemHeat37]

:lol Did they hide Kobe's FG% in game 7 like they did on ABC? :lol..

[redzero]

Player A: Michael Jordan's combined NBA Finals statistics in the second three peat (1996, 1997, 1998 NBA Finals)

Player B: Kobe Bryant's combined NBA Finals statistics in the last two seasons (2009, 2010 NBA Finals)

Why leave out Kobe's performance in the 2008 NBA Finals?

[HarlemHeat37]

I don't know the context of their argument, but Jamstone is usually a massive homer towards Kobe, so don't be surprised..

[mystargtr34]

I like JamStone's comparison... but it really isnt doing Kobe any favours. Basically its saying Prime Kobe = Twilight Jordan.

[HarlemHeat37]

I agree, I don't think it's a stretch, as I've said before..prime Kobe is definitely comparable to past his prime Jordan IMO..

[JamStone]

Why leave out Kobe's performance in the 2008 NBA Finals?


I don't know the context of their argument, but Jamstone is usually a massive homer towards Kobe, so don't be surprised..

I left out 2008 because the Lakers lost that NBA Finals, and I think Kobe had become a better player since those 2008 NBA Finals, as far as playing to win instead of playing for him to shine and to win. He became a little more trusting of teammates, developed more chemistry with Pau, and at least realize in some part that he had to do more than just score to help his team.

But I have no problem calculating those Finals stats into the comparison.


Jordan's 1996-98 Finals stats:
42.1 mpg, 31.0 ppg, 5.4 rpg, 4.2 apg, 1.56 spg, 0.56 bpg, 2.28 TO
43.4% FG, 31.6% 3PT, 80.7% FT

Kobe's 2008-10 Finals stats:
42.7 mpg, 28.7 ppg, 6.2 rpg, 5.2 apg, 2.1 spg, 0.72 bpg, 3.67 TO
41.3% FG, 33.0% 3PT, 84.3% FT

My point remains the same that there's isn't a huge difference either way on who was better in those NBA Finals championship runs (even when you add the 2008 NBA Finals). Kobe's scoring and FG% dips a little more, but otherwise, the comparison still is interesting.



I like JamStone's comparison... but it really isnt doing Kobe any favours. Basically its saying Prime Kobe = Twilight Jordan.

Jordan's "twilight" from 1996-98 included three NBA championships, 3 NBA Finals MVPs, 2 NBA League MVPs, and the other year, Jordan finished 2nd in MVP voting. And Jordan shot 48% from the field in the regular season of those three years. 43.4% FG in those three NBA Finals. Remember how people love to talk about how the great players pick their level of play in the playoffs and even more so in the NBA Finals, on the biggest stage? Well?

And I can't avoid the notion of some people who love to talk about how Kobe's current decline is directly related to the NBA miles on his body instead of his age. Some people claim Kobe is more like 35 years old because he started playing in the NBA when he was 17-18 years old. Well you can't have it both ways.

Michael Jordan from 1995-96 to 1997-98 = his 11th, 12th, and 13th NBA seasons
Kobe Bryant from 2007-08 to 2009-10 = his 12th, 13th, and 14th NBA seasons

Can't have it both ways.




he's a Jordan hater, tbh.

Admitted Jordan hater.

I don't spit out hate at Jordan and then say I'm "unbiased" and completely "balanced" how a certain Kobe hater likes to suggest he is.

[Booharv]

Hi.

[Booharv]

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1420/4725118734_de52a7b7c7_b.jpg

lmao at Jamstone cherrypicking only the stats that make Jordan and Kobe look comparable.

[Booharv]

Jordan and Kobe's advanced playoff stats:

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4088/4846979743_473cc8571b_b.jpg

[Booharv]

You know, you could incorrectly say that Jordan played against weaker competition. But why did Kobe hardly ever lead the league in any advanced statistics in his era? I guess the advanced stats are Kobe haters. Or Jordan was just on an entirely different level from Kobe.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, you can believe in advanced stats or you can believe in comparing Kobe and Jordan. It's one or the other people, but not both.

[JamStone]

Thanks for posting those playoff advance stats. If you look at Michael Jordan 1996, 1997, 1998 and Kobe Bryant 2008, 2009, 2010, it does show very comparable advances stats too. Thanks. That was what I was getting at.

Your problem is not understanding my point.

I have never said in this thread or otherwise that Kobe is better than Jordan. Nor have I said that Kobe is equal to Jordan. You might think that was my point, but it wasn't.

My point introducing a comparison of Jordan's NBA Finals stats from 1996, 1997, and 1998 to Kobe's NBA Finals stats from 2009 and 2010 was to shed some light and perspective on how each of the two players are perceived and/or remembered. Kobe has played comparatively well the last two NBA Finals as Jordan did in his second three peat NBA Finals. But not back in the mid 1990s and certainly not now was or is Jordan criticized for having subpar shooting. And that's because he and the Bulls still won. However, even though Kobe and the Lakers won the last two titles, Kobe still gets blasted unequivocally for poor shooting despite still making his mark and helping his team win.

That was the point and purpose of the comparison.

If you look over the course of their respective careers, it's no contest. Jordan was the superior player over the regular season, the playoffs, and the Finals... over their entire respective careers. People forget that Jordan in that second threepeat run had become a volume scorer who wasn't always efficient, nor was he particularly dominant in any other area other than scoring. At the time, he was still considered the best player in the league and is still remembered that way. People don't talk about game 6 of the 1996 NBA Finals or about his FG% in that second threepeat run. They didn't back then either. They just called him great, no disclaimers, no qualifiers.

I'm trying to show how Kobe hate manifests itself. People yell, "well he can't win without Shaq." He wins without Shaq, and the Kobe critics scream, "well Pau is the MVP of the team." That's not enough, they go to the "well his shooting percentages suck in the Finals." Ok, and? Doesn't matter that his team wins? Individual stats more important than winning? People use different logic when it suits them.

We can get into a deeper discussion about Jordan playing against weaker competition if you really want to. But it would be futile to do so. I hated Michael Jordan growing up. And I still think he's an asshole to this day. But you won't catch me saying he isn't the greatest player ever or that Kobe is better than him. Michael Jordan is the greatest basketball player to ever play in the history of the NBA. Period. End of story. It doesn't mean I can't wipe off some of Jordan skeet off some of your eyes to show you the guy wasn't perfect, on or off the court. It doesn't mean I can't tell you how in that first threepeat run, the NBA was transitioning from the great Lakers and Celtics 80s era and was a much weaker league or that for much of those early 90s, 6'6, 215 lbs. Michael Jordan regularly faced 6'3, 185 lbs. shooting guards. When the league starting catching up to the "big" 2-guard, look at how Michael performed against them. An average 2-guard today is about 6'6 210. Back in the early 90s, Michael and Clyde were rare breeds. You could count the other good 2-guards who were that size, Ron Harper who was pretty good before he fucked up his knee, Reggie Miller who had the height but was 180 pounds soaking wet early on in his career, Dan Majerle who was a good defender and had good 2-guard size back then. Other guys that size and athletic were small forwards. Both Clyde and Majerle actually played quite a bit of small forward, in fact. We can talk about defensive zones in the 2000s versus the 1990s and not only no zone but very little double teaming because of the illegal defensive zone rules. Now if you want to go there, by all means.

But again, that endeavor would really be futile on your part.

[BullsDynasty]

In my hot opinion, the reason why Kobe is degraded to the extent he is and MJ being full blown to elite status is the result of one thing.... The internet. You might think I sound retarded by saying that but let me tell you something.

Back then in the 90's the internet was not popular where you could go on a forum and discuss basketball and so called 'Mass Communicate' to 1,000 people at a time. Basically it was the media telling us the G.O.A.T the good, and the bad. It was the media separating from what they want to be shown to the audience and what not. Lets be honest.

You didn't have blogs or articles on the internet bashing a particular player or worshipping him like they do nowadays. When a player chokes in a playoff game, the very next day its the hot topic in all sports forums, bloggers are ready to blog about it people aren't hesitant to write an article about it especially if they hate the player. Basically in a matter of hours the whole world knows about it.

Back then, MJ was considered the greatest thing that has happened in the history of sports, you never saw ESPN bash MJ (considering that was the primary news source for everyone) so no one ever noticed the bad performances of MJ. The only people who noticed it were the people who actually saw it. They probably told their friends but thats it, it wasn't discussed on the internet whatsoever and it wasn't spread massively like nowadays.

I think part of the reason why MJ is made god status was because the media always portrayed him to be the perfect athlete always said good about him, basically brainwashed everyone, and all the haters had no way of transmitting their opinions to the mass. I remember when Kobe came into the league, from 1997-2002 (The early stages of the internet) you never heard people degrading Kobe, I never once heard people saying after the first 3 peat Kobe couldn't win it without shaq. As the internet grew Kobe haters began expressing their opinions and negated the full Kobe homerism.

To be honest, I didn't watch the Lakers / Celtics Game 7 finals. I just woke up one morning went to NBA.com and saw a picture of the Lakers holding the trophy. I watched the highlights and thats it. I looked at the boxscore 'NOT PAYING ATTENTION TO FG%, and to be honest the average person just looks at points not fg%. I only found out about his fg% via spurstalk which I then rechecked. Had there been not internet, I would have just thought that Kobe had a great performance.

If MJ played in today's era no doubt some of his flaws would have been exposed and put on blast.

[Riles04]

kobe for prez!

[HarlemHeat37]

:lol So because of the internet, efficiency is now looked at as an important part of basketball..before the internet, efficiency didn't matter, it was completely irrelevant..makes sense..

Kobe hasn't been an inefficient player or anything, but he does lack in comparison to some of the big names from the past(Jordan) and today(Wade/Lebron)..obviously his shot selection is a significant part of that..his ability to make extremely tough shots obviously has it's bad side..

[Cane]

Yea I see whats BullsDynasty is saying but MJ had criticism from the media before he started winning championships. Him retiring and playing baseball was also seen as a "wtf c'mon" kind of move by many. There's also the gambling issue, coming back again for the Wizards, and stuff he did after fully-retiring as a player like the infamous HOF speech which seemed to have lowered his stock a bit, his lackluster time as a NBA suit which got criticism as well, etc. MJ also was really hated by devout East coast homers just for the fact that he dominated that conference.

Kobe simply doesn't really compete against Jordan whether its on or off the court or their intangible effect on the game of basketball and the pop culture world. Advanced stats, basic stats, averages, individual accomplishments and awards, impact on the game, and taking individual popularity and the game of basketball to the next level favor Mike.

What Kobe can do though is further solidify a top 10 GOAT ranking and he's on track to having a lengthy career and might be able to get all time records in sheer totals like points and minutes until LeBron breaks 'em; health permitting.

[BullsDynasty]

:lol So because of the internet, efficiency is now looked at as an important part of basketball..before the internet, efficiency didn't matter, it was completely irrelevant..makes sense..

Kobe hasn't been an inefficient player or anything, but he does lack in comparison to some of the big names from the past(Jordan) and today(Wade/Lebron)..obviously his shot selection is a significant part of that..his ability to make extremely tough shots obviously has it's bad side..

No thats not what I'm saying. Read ALL OF MY POST before making accusations. Im just commenting on JamStone's post how no one ever talks about Jordan's bad game in game 6 of 1996 but people are fast to punch Kobe in the face for his bad game 6 last year. Thats because his bad games were never put on blast to the masses like Kobe's was. I mean back in the 90s where else would you have heard all the NBA news? Not the internet but ESPN. And we all know ESPN back then worshipped MJ so you won't hear them bashing Jordan for that bad game 6 but rather talk about how he is the greatest of all time. The only people that knew about Jordan's bad game are the people that watched it. And most likely they forgot about it later on.

Nowadays when Kobe has a bad game, its all discussed on the forums to the masses, people blog about it to the masses, people write articles about it to the masses and next thing you know, even the people that didn't actually watch the game knows about it and gets stuck in their head because its being talked all over the internet.

[Booharv]

If you look over the course of their respective careers, it's no contest. Jordan was the superior player over the regular season, the playoffs, and the Finals... over their entire respective careers. People forget that Jordan in that second threepeat run had become a volume scorer who wasn't always efficient, nor was he particularly dominant in any other area other than scoring. At the time, he was still considered the best player in the league and is still remembered that way. People don't talk about game 6 of the 1996 NBA Finals or about his FG% in that second threepeat run. They didn't back then either. They just called him great, no disclaimers, no qualifiers.

Kobe's an awesome player. Definitely. But it's just tiresome that people compare him to Jordan. Jordan led the league in scoring, Hollinger's questionable PER (by about 4-6 points each of the comparative years), and destroyed Kobe in win shares 59-35 over the three years we're comparing. He also led a team to 72 wins which could have been 75-76 if Rodman hadn't missed 18 games and Pippen 5 that year. The kind of focus and leadership that takes is amazing. They brought it every damn night, even on the second night of a back to back in New Jersey on a Tuesday in January. The fact that you just can just discount that and say weak era is sad.

Rather than argue Kobe versus Jordan for the millionth time. I'd rather argue the eras.

Let's look at the 50 win 2010 Boston Celtics which you have unbelievably said is better than any team Jordan ever played in the Finals.

1996 Sonics vs. 2010 Boston

Gary Payton is significantly better than Rajon Rondo on both ends of the floor. Pierce is better than Hawkins but it's not like the Payton-Rondo gap, 2010 Pierce is no longer the guy who averaged 30 ppg over the course of a calendar month a few years back. He's managed to average 18 ppg in each of the regular season, playoffs, and Finals in 2010 and he killed his team's offense imo when he tried to isolate and do things by himself down the stretch (Bill Simmons called the PP end of game isos the "clogged toilet offense"). Schrempf was probably better than Allen or at the very least that it was a wash. 1996 Kemp was light years of 2010 KG though, it's not even close. Although I would argue at least in the playoffs KH was Boston's second best player. But Kemp even beasted on Rodman a couple of times in the finals and was the second best player in that series. Kendrick is better than Sam, worse on offense but better on defense. And Boston's bench was slightly better than Seattle's but it wasn't great. Sheed had one of the worst three point shooting seasons in history and posted a 10.4 PER in the playoffs. Ervin johnson was an above average shot blocker and rebounder off the bench. Nate McMillan was supposed to be a really good defender so having him off the bench might be a wash with Tony Allen.

So let's recap: Seattle has the best two players in the series and is younger. Boston has more experience but is at a mismatch at two positions (I think Payton eats Rondo alive for one and Kemp is definitely better than KG), and Seattle's three through five players are about even to Boston's or slightly worse.

That Sonics team is also better than last year's Orlando team imo. Plus although the 90s was definitely weaker, in comparing eras the 90s shits on the current era in big men. Dwight Howard has a mechanical post game similar to Otis Thorpe's and he would be the 5th best center in the early to mid nineties and he's the best big man in the league now. Hell if you threw in PF's Howard would be like 7th or 8th best big if he was playing in the 90s. Th big man are straight up sad nowadays.


Michael Jordan regularly faced 6'3, 185 lbs. shooting guards. When the league starting catching up to the "big" 2-guard, look at how Michael performed against them. An average 2-guard today is about 6'6 210. Back in the early 90s, Michael and Clyde were rare breeds. You could count the other good 2-guards who were that size, Ron Harper who was pretty good before he fucked up his knee, Reggie Miller who had the height but was 180 pounds soaking wet early on in his career, Dan Majerle who was a good defender and had good 2-guard size back then. Other guys that size and athletic were small forwards. Both Clyde and Majerle actually played quite a bit of small forward, in fact. We can talk about defensive zones in the 2000s versus the 1990s and not only no zone but very little double teaming because of the illegal defensive zone rules. Now if you want to go there, by all means.

But again, that endeavor would really be futile on your part.

That era was weaker but they had the hand check rules which is probably a wash with the illegal defense versus zone. Basically, you had to commit to double teaming, which tons of teams did in certain situations. And teams doubled the shit out of Jordan. They forced the ball out of Jordan's hands a lot and sent waves of guys after him this was the Pistons whole Jordan Rules strategy (granted the strategy involved mixing up defenses but they always came hard at him in the paint and doubled the shit out of him a lot) even Dumars says when Jordan started passing early in the double team is when he knew they couldn't beat the Bulls. That's one of the reasons Jordan's passing numbers were better than Kobe's

Kobe has had some similar players in his careers. Clyde, who was a solid defender and a great athlete played heads up with Jordan and got smoked.

[Booharv]

I would also say the 96 Magic are better than the Magic team Kobe beat in the Finals. Shaq>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Howard, Penny>Jameer, Nick Anderson>Courtney Lee, Hedo is better than Dennis Scott but not by much Hedo sported like a 14 PER that year iirc and only really shined in the playoffs for a few games. And Rashard is about equal to Horace Grant although they are different players and very hard to compare. About 5 ppg difference in scoring I think but since Horace was a very good athlete (although not as good as in his first threepeat days) he could cover Shard. And he was a better defender and rebounder obviously.

Bill Simmons stupidly argues in his book that Grant's game 1 injury prevented the 96 ECF (a Bulls sweep) from being a good series but he doesn't mention that the Bulls were up by 30 at that point in game 1 and won by 39 and had a 18 ppg victory margin in that series. Grant doesn't make that much of a difference. Still they're better than that 2009 Magic team imo.

[JamStone]

Last year's Celtics team wasn't all that great in the regular season, but played very well in the playoffs. They were kind of inconsistent, and I'll attribute some of that to age and injuries. But when it comes down to overall talent especially when you consider depth, I'd give the edge easily to last year's Celtics over the 1996 Seattle team. Obviously, Kobe's better supporting cast over Jordan's supporting cast is something else.

I don't know what you want. If you're going to constantly complain about anyone talking about Kobe/Jordan, you might as well just ignore the thread and discussion. You misplaced my intentions when I brought up the original Finals stats comparison. Heck, you berate me with irrelevant stats. And now you want to continue with the discussion.

Either you're sick of the comparison and you leave it alone, or you actually perpetuate the debate, which you're doing now.

I'll say it again so it's completely clear to you. Jordan is and always will be greater than Kobe. Kobe won't touch Jordan individually as a player. Even if Kobe wins a couple more titles to tie or surpass Jordan's championships, Kobe won't be better. Kobe's resume in the Finals will always be a sticking point to show how he didn't dominate on his way to titles, at least most of the time. And that won't change even if Kobe averages 50 points on 75% shooting for any other future Finals series he plays in if he's lucky enough to get back there again.

Is that what you want to read? I believe it. I've put it in writing.

My point was to show that Michael wasn't the perfect player that he's remembered for being. My point is that Michael actually had crap performances on his way to winning titles as well. My point was that people love to say that Kobe can't sniff Jordan's jock but without realizing that Jordan had similarly bad shooting performances. There's a disproportionate amount of hate on Kobe even when he and his team wins. People don't say, "well Michael didn't really deserve that 1996 Finals MVP because it was Rodman who made the most impact on that series." People don't argue that, "Michael didn't really win 6 titles because he wasn't playing against Magic and Bird for those titles." There are no qualifiers to Jordan's titles or greatness. But there are qualifiers to everything Kobe has done in his career. But it's not just that those criticisms aren't made with Jordan. They really aren't made with any other great player. Shaq gets some criticism for jumping from team to team to win another title. But the amount of criticism he gets about not winning without Kobe versus Kobe not winning without Shaq is miniscule.

If you're really sick of the Jordan comparison, why continue with the debate?

[Daddy_Of_All_Trolls]

:lol 6-24..

And he had 15 rebounds and kept Ray Allen from having a good shooting night. Must suck for you to know Kobe still won another NBA title in spite of things as they played out. If LeBron ever wins one shooting 6-24 in the closeout, what will you say then? Did you even watch the Finals MVP presentation? Kobe admitted to the world he had a bad game, it almost slipped away because he wanted it too bad. He thanked Gasol. He should have thanked the other guys individually too, particularly Artest, but he did thank his team. Most importantly, Kobe gave you what you craved and you missed it. He said he sucked. No one talks about that. Probably because the haters turned the TV off after the game was over.

kmOL9uG8zuE

[usdane]

Last year's Celtics team wasn't all that great in the regular season, but played very well in the playoffs. They were kind of inconsistent, and I'll attribute some of that to age and injuries. But when it comes down to overall talent especially when you consider depth, I'd give the edge easily to last year's Celtics over the 1996 Seattle team. Obviously, Kobe's better supporting cast over Jordan's supporting cast is something else.

I don't know what you want. If you're going to constantly complain about anyone talking about Kobe/Jordan, you might as well just ignore the thread and discussion. You misplaced my intentions when I brought up the original Finals stats comparison. Heck, you berate me with irrelevant stats. And now you want to continue with the discussion.

Either you're sick of the comparison and you leave it alone, or you actually perpetuate the debate, which you're doing now.

I'll say it again so it's completely clear to you. Jordan is and always will be greater than Kobe. Kobe won't touch Jordan individually as a player. Even if Kobe wins a couple more titles to tie or surpass Jordan's championships, Kobe won't be better. Kobe's resume in the Finals will always be a sticking point to show how he didn't dominate on his way to titles, at least most of the time. And that won't change even if Kobe averages 50 points on 75% shooting for any other future Finals series he plays in if he's lucky enough to get back there again.

Is that what you want to read? I believe it. I've put it in writing.

My point was to show that Michael wasn't the perfect player that he's remembered for being. My point is that Michael actually had crap performances on his way to winning titles as well. My point was that people love to say that Kobe can't sniff Jordan's jock but without realizing that Jordan had similarly bad shooting performances. There's a disproportionate amount of hate on Kobe even when he and his team wins. People don't say, "well Michael didn't really deserve that 1996 Finals MVP because it was Rodman who made the most impact on that series." People don't argue that, "Michael didn't really win 6 titles because he wasn't playing against Magic and Bird for those titles." There are no qualifiers to Jordan's titles or greatness. But there are qualifiers to everything Kobe has done in his career. But it's not just that those criticisms aren't made with Jordan. They really aren't made with any other great player. Shaq gets some criticism for jumping from team to team to win another title. But the amount of criticism he gets about not winning without Kobe versus Kobe not winning without Shaq is miniscule.

If you're really sick of the Jordan comparison, why continue with the debate?

Props Jam :toast your takes are always well thought trough, nuanced and usually pretty neutral. Keep up the good work.

The fact that Kobe has made it to the finals half of his seasons is overlooked and pretty damn amazing. The blatant hate and minimizing of Kobe is getting prosperous.

Don't get me wrong I still see MJ as goat. But there are stats the proves he was not immortal e.g. 400 career winning % without Pippen and 1 for 9 in playoff games without Pippen.

[mystargtr34]

Question for Laker fans... where do you guys rate Kobe All-Time? Personally... i have him at #9.

[21_Blessings]

i have him at #9.

Sounds like haterade. Who do you have ahead of him?

Regardless of what Spur and Laker fan think, history will remember Kobe as a greater player than Tim Duncan. It's basically fact at this point. :bking

[Booharv]

Last year's Celtics team wasn't all that great in the regular season, but played very well in the playoffs. They were kind of inconsistent, and I'll attribute some of that to age and injuries. But when it comes down to overall talent especially when you consider depth, I'd give the edge easily to last year's Celtics over the 1996 Seattle team. Let's leave aside the Jordan-Kobe stuff and compare eras just to have some basketball talk. I don't know how in God's green Earth anyone could say last year's Celtic's team was better than that Sonics team if you look at the rosters and ignore the fact that 1996 appears before one team's name and 2010 appears before another's. The top seven is a clear advantage to the Sonics. Unless you're going to say that Big Baby as the 8th man over Vincent Askew is some kind of Trump card, I don't get it. Heck McMillan is even a way better defender/role player off the bench than Tony Allen. They both were bona fide defensive pests, but McMillan is a guy who lead the league in steals while averaging 25 mpg two years earlier and was coming off two all defensive teams in 1994 and 1995. He was also a good three point shooter while Allen can't shoot and sports turnover rates that are the worst in the league for shooting guards. And Ervin Johnson while dumb as a bag of hammers at least could rebound and block shots while Wallace is doing neither, and sporting a 10 PER in the playoffs. He's also bricking threes and confusing people whose memories are tinged with visions of 2004 Sheed into thinking he's barely better than an Ervin Johnson level scrub at this point. That's also ignoring his 10.6 playoff rebound rate which is a pretty infamous accomplishment for a 7 footer.

If it was the 2008 Celtics versus the 1996 Sonics I could understand. KG was much closer to his prime then as was Pierce and Allen. I would pick the 08 Celtics as KG wasn't limping around then and could have done a better job in 2008 versus 2010 against Kemp (who was a straight beast in that 96 Finals).

That goes triple for the 1995 or 96 Magic team compared to the 2009 Magic team. I broke both of these cases down above already. Besides teams shorten their rotations in the playoffs. Witness the Lakers teams from the last two years who have had horrible depth and one solid bench player in Odom who was needed to cover for the 7 and 5 they got from their center in the playoffs the last two seasons. Fisher was so awful in the 09 playoffs that when he hit one shot in the Finals everyone was literally shocked. Like Gary Payton "This guy's still alive?" in the 06 Finals when he made some big shots shocked. He's the kind of guy who would be getting bought out if he was on a lottery team like Minnesota.


Obviously, Kobe's better supporting cast over Jordan's supporting cast is something else.

This is trolling, right?



I don't know what you want. If you're going to constantly complain about anyone talking about Kobe/Jordan, you might as well just ignore the thread and discussion. You misplaced my intentions when I brought up the original Finals stats comparison. Heck, you berate me with irrelevant stats. And now you want to continue with the discussion.

I average like .72 posts a day in my three years here for a total of eight hundred something. I've discussed Kobe and Jordan in maybe 50 posts in three years. That's like 1/40th of your contributions on the subject. Besides, I was mostly comparing eras in my last two posts. If you want to compare 1995 Houston to 2009 Orlando it would be the same and have nothing to do with Jordan. My point is that there is a bashing of the 90s that in many cases is just veiled Jordan bashing tbh. If you match the teams up on paper its pretty obvious that the teams from the mid 90s could compete with or were better than the teams from today.

That's even ignoring that a lot of the best teams ever had 1-2 stars and then just a bunch of role players with little depth. None of the Lakers teams that won titles in the post Jordan era had any kind of impressive depth whatsoever. The deepest Laker team, the 2000 team was worse in the playoffs than the team from the following year even though they lost Glen Rice and Horace Grant and had weaker depth.


Either you're sick of the comparison and you leave it alone, or you actually perpetuate the debate, which you're doing now.

I'll say it again so it's completely clear to you. Jordan is and always will be greater than Kobe. Kobe won't touch Jordan individually as a player. Even if Kobe wins a couple more titles to tie or surpass Jordan's championships, Kobe won't be better. Kobe's resume in the Finals will always be a sticking point to show how he didn't dominate on his way to titles, at least most of the time. And that won't change even if Kobe averages 50 points on 75% shooting for any other future Finals series he plays in if he's lucky enough to get back there again.

Is that what you want to read? I believe it. I've put it in writing.

My point was to show that Michael wasn't the perfect player that he's remembered for being. My point is that Michael actually had crap performances on his way to winning titles as well. My point was that people love to say that Kobe can't sniff Jordan's jock but without realizing that Jordan had similarly bad shooting performances. There's a disproportionate amount of hate on Kobe even when he and his team wins. People don't say, "well Michael didn't really deserve that 1996 Finals MVP because it was Rodman who made the most impact on that series." People don't argue that, "Michael didn't really win 6 titles because he wasn't playing against Magic and Bird for those titles." There are no qualifiers to Jordan's titles or greatness. But there are qualifiers to everything Kobe has done in his career. But it's not just that those criticisms aren't made with Jordan. They really aren't made with any other great player. Shaq gets some criticism for jumping from team to team to win another title. But the amount of criticism he gets about not winning without Kobe versus Kobe not winning without Shaq is miniscule.

If you're really sick of the Jordan comparison, why continue with the debate?

Because people keep making the comparison and sometimes it gets annoying.

Really though, I was and continue to be attempting to compare eras in some of my posts as I feel that although the mid 90s was a somewhat era overall, the top teams were better than some of the top teams now. This current era is nothing special. The best big man in the league whether it's Gasol or Howard is like eighth or ninth compared to the big men of the mid 90s. (Olajuwon, O'Neal, Robinson, Ewing, Malone, Barkley, Kemp were probably better than Gasol or Howard) Tbh 1994-96 Mutombo was a greater defensive force than Howard from 09 as he averaged like 4-5 bpg while leading the league then iirc. He just couldn't match him offensively, this current era when broken down doesn't jive with the "Today's athletes and players are far superior to yesterday's athletes" mantra. When you look at the top players in many cases, particularly big men, and then at some of the rosters of the contenders in both eras. The depth of talent is weaker but a lot of teams start average athletes in athetlic positions like point guard and the wings and the top teams aren't any better in a ton of cases than the teams from then.

[Zelophehad]

My point is that there is a bashing of the 90s that in many cases is just veiled Jordan bashing tbh.

This is true in a lot of cases. One thing I think that is under-rated is that Bulls team having a player like a prime Steve Kerr. Laugh all you want, but a dead eye three point shooter like Kerr in his prime when he's averaging like a 65% TS makes a team like that even that much more unbeatable. :ook at the heights the Lakers soared to in the 2001 playoffs when Fisher was hitting 15-20 in the WCF and 55% in the playoffs and combine that with a prime Shaq and Kobe plus other role players who hit their shots like Horry and fox and that team becomes near unbeatable. Same thing when you combine Kerr with a Jordan, Pippen and a Kukoc who's also hitting his threes and making plays plus Rodman under the boards. Well oiled machine tbh.

How many teams have been bounced from the playoffs because their spot up shooters failed when called upon? Dozens in my lifetime seems like. Guys like Kerr and 01 Fisher (Fish has never been anywhere near that good again in the playoffs or regular season) send teams up a notch.

[mystargtr34]

Sounds like haterade. Who do you have ahead of him?

Regardless of what Spur and Laker fan think, history will remember Kobe as a greater player than Tim Duncan. It's basically fact at this point. :bking

1. MJ
2. Kareem
3. Wilt
4. Russell
5. Magic
6. Bird
7. Duncan
8. Shaq
9. Hakeem
10. Kobe

Have him at 10 actually.. you could make a case for Kobe to be higher if you blindly look at raw stats like points scored and titles won... but when you look a little deeper at efficiency ie FG%, titles won as the first option, individual accomplishments... he doesnt have the resume that the guys above him have.

[21_Blessings]

:lol Shaq over Hakeem and Kobe.

Russell over the man that saved basketball :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao

[Venti Quattro]

Devin Ebanks got signed today... Derrick Caracter probably next

[MiamiHeat]

Doctor J should be in that top 10.

[21_Blessings]

Doctor J should be in that top 10.

No he shouldn't and Moses has a better case for that than Dr. J does.

[milkshakeballa]

Doctor J should be in that top 10.

:lol:lol:lol:lol

[Ashy Larry]

1. MJ
2. Kareem
3. Wilt
4. Russell
5. Magic
6. Bird
7. Duncan
8. Shaq
9. Hakeem
10. Kobe

Have him at 10 actually.. you could make a case for Kobe to be higher if you blindly look at raw stats like points scored and titles won... but when you look a little deeper at efficiency ie FG%, titles won as the first option, individual accomplishments... he doesnt have the resume that the guys above him have.

Damn good list and totally agree with the top two. Normally most people put Wilt at #2 but Kareem's resume is on point with anyone's, including MJ.......

1. MJ
2. Kareem
3. Magic
4. Russell
5. Wilt
6. Bird
7. Shaq
8. Kobe
9. Duncan
10. Hakeem


I'll put Shaq over Duncan because head to head, Shaquille's teams win the head to head battles and during that time, Shaquille was just dominant. Should have gone down as the GOAT if he had the work ethic of Mike or Kobe ........

Kobe's definitely top 15 and I would put him in the top ten. That 2001 series with the Spurs was the real NBA Finals and the best player on the floor was Kobe and it wasn't even debatable or close. Shaquille should hand over that MVP from the Sixers series and give it to Bean.

[Ashy Larry]

Doctor J should be in that top 10.


based on what ?


A giant fro and free throw dunks? Moses clearly was more dominant and I'd say more productive than Doc ever was ........

that 1983 Sixers team was nice and didn't get over the hump until Moses got on the squad. Sixers lost in 80 and 82 to the Lakers without Moses. Swept the Lakers in 83 with him. Dude murdered Kareem.

Andrew Toney - Still the most underrated player of all time, the Celtic Killer.

[milkshakeballa]

The first time I began to understand why he was the best was in the pre-season. In a game against the Wizards, Kobe broke the wrist on his shooting hand. He was always the first person to practice every day, arriving at least an hour and a half early. This would infuriate me because I wanted to be the first person to practice, just as I had always been at Villanova and Piscataway High in New Jersey. To add insult to injury, I lived only 10 minutes from the practice facility -- while Kobe was at least 35 minutes away.

I am ashamed to say that I was excited the day after his injury because I knew that there was no way that No. 8 (as former Laker point guard Tyronn Lue called him) would be the first to practice, if he would even be there at all.

As I walked through the training room, I became stricken with fear when I heard a ball bouncing. No, no, it couldn’t be! Yes it could. Kobe was already in a full sweat with a cast on his right arm and dribbling and shooting with his left.

As the next couple of days of practice passed, I would glance over as Phil Jackson was talking and see Kobe on the side going full speed and pulling up with his left. He was a conducting an all-out practice with himself. Lakers trainer Gary Viti, had to come in and tell Kobe to take a rest. But when Viti left, Kobe was at it again.

One day I was shooting on a side basket -- on the court that Kobe had made his own practice spot. He challenged me.

“Cele, let’s shoot," he said. "Wanna play H-O-R-S-E?”

I laughed at him. I was actually insulted that he would challenge me, a pro, to a game of horse with his left hand. After he insisted, I figured I would just whip him and prove to him that he wasn’t Superman. He couldn’t do everything.

He made shot after shot after shot. I was beginning to feel more pressure as I got each letter. First H, then O, then R, then S. I couldn’t let this man beat me with a broken shooting hand. My gosh, he was shooting threes with his left. I finally made a deep three and the stars aligned and Kobe missed. I had escaped the most embarrassing moment of my basketball life. When he missed he was infuriated.

“Come on Cele, let’s play again,” Kobe insisted



God....what a hero. All service men and women..all teachers and doctors..all role models should follow Kobe's lead ...TBH.

[TD 21]

Damn good list and totally agree with the top two. Normally most people put Wilt at #2 but Kareem's resume is on point with anyone's, including MJ.......

1. MJ
2. Kareem
3. Magic
4. Russell
5. Wilt
6. Bird
7. Shaq
8. Kobe
9. Duncan
10. Hakeem


I'll put Shaq over Duncan because head to head, Shaquille's teams win the head to head battles and during that time, Shaquille was just dominant. Should have gone down as the GOAT if he had the work ethic of Mike or Kobe ........

Kobe's definitely top 15 and I would put him in the top ten. That 2001 series with the Spurs was the real NBA Finals and the best player on the floor was Kobe and it wasn't even debatable or close. Shaquille should hand over that MVP from the Sixers series and give it to Bean.

It couldn't have been because O'Neal had another top five player as a sidekick, meanwhile Duncan lacked an All-Star caliber teammate as a sidekick, could it?

I've got no problem with acknowledging O'Neal being the best or at minimum undisputed most dominant player in the league during the Lakers three peat and you could even make a case for putting him above Duncan all-time, but that is a foolish reason for doing so.

Also, about the Spurs and Lakers head to head in the playoffs, if Fisher's .4 shot never counted (and it shouldn't have, seeing as how it's impossible to catch, turn and shoot, even in one motion, during that short a span), they'd most likely be 3-3 overall in the Duncan/Bryant era, but 3-2 Spurs overall with O'Neal involved.

[HarlemHeat37]

Last time I looked, basketball has many facets. Kobe had a remarkable post season this year. Sure you can point out games or portions of games where he underachieved. Please show me one player who didn't. Why is it ALWAYS about shooting % or efficiency of one stat or another? Watch the friggen games!

You see clearly who the leader is. You haters saving grace is that Kobe shot a piss poor % as he led his team to his 5th title? Its laughable! He simply had a bad game 7 shooting and his & was down. It was suggested that Duncan had similar numbers and your argument again is soley based on offense and shooting %. No talk of the 15 rebounds? No talk of the passes to players who hit clutch shots? Passes all you haters say he would never concede? Ohhh, noooo, all we hear about is the missed shots. None of the other aspects of the game. The leadership? The defense? Desire to win that teammates feed off of? Noooo, but then again, when you have an agenda which everyone here knows you do, it's pretty simple to pick a stat here or there, a quarter here or there to support your obsession. Hey when that doesn't fly, you can always resort to your usual hypocritical moral rants.

- Kobe struggled against the only good defenses he went up again..
- Kobe didn't concede too many shots..his teammates and coach had to ask him to stop shooting, and he ended up taking 24 shots, a ridiculous amount for somebody with so much help..
- He didn't show any leadership, he had to be asked to stop shooting..the real leadership came from Phil Jackson and Derek Fisher..
- I can't measure his desire to win, neither can you..

I'm not just "picking a stat" here..I'm measuring his entire impact on the game..he took up 40% of the total possessions during the game, by far the highest of any player on either team, and he had the 3rd lowest offensive rating on his team for the game, only ahead of an injured Bynum and Farmar..this obviously had the biggest overall impact of anything involved in the game..

[Killakobe81]

Damn good list and totally agree with the top two. Normally most people put Wilt at #2 but Kareem's resume is on point with anyone's, including MJ.......

1. MJ
2. Kareem
3. Magic
4. Russell
5. Wilt
6. Bird
7. Shaq
8. Kobe
9. Duncan
10. Hakeem


I'll put Shaq over Duncan because head to head, Shaquille's teams win the head to head battles and during that time, Shaquille was just dominant. Should have gone down as the GOAT if he had the work ethic of Mike or Kobe ........

Kobe's definitely top 15 and I would put him in the top ten. That 2001 series with the Spurs was the real NBA Finals and the best player on the floor was Kobe and it wasn't even debatable or close. Shaquille should hand over that MVP from the Sixers series and give it to Bean.

Agree with Most of this fine list. But as much as i like Burd i put Duncan and kobe over him and shaq just after ....

[Ashy Larry]

Agree with Most of this fine list. But as much as i like Burd i put Duncan and kobe over him and shaq just after ....


you know, I was really thinking about doing that as well ..... I think I kept Larry up there based on those Laker-Celtic battles and he definitely would have been dropped if the Lakers didn't gift wrap that 1984 title.

Should have been a sweep. Still bitter over that shit. Fundamentals cost them that ring. Nothing worse than happy, pasty chowds.

[Purch]

Lol at people underrating Bird. He easily has one of the greatest peaks in Nba history.

24/10/7,
29/11/7
26/10/7
28/9/8
30/9/6

All on near 50% shooting and at the top of the leauge in steals every one of those years. And record multiple mvps and championships during that period.


1. Michael Jordan
2. Kareem Abdul Jabbar
3. Bill Russel
4. Wilt Chamberlian
5. Larry Bird
6. Magic Johnson
7. Shaq
8. Duncan/Hakeem
9. Hakeem/Duncan
10. Kobe

[himat]

Lol at people underrating Bird. He easily has one of the greatest peaks in Nba history.

24/10/7,
29/11/7
26/10/7
28/9/8
30/9/6

All on near 50% shooting and at the top of the leauge in steals every one of those years. And record multiple mvps and championships during that period.


1. Michael Jordan
2. Kareem Abdul Jabbar
3. Bill Russel
4. Wilt Chamberlian
5. Larry Bird
6. Magic Johnson
7. Shaq
8. Duncan/Hakeem
9. Hakeem/Duncan
10. Kobe

I love the top 4 but then I disagree on the rest.

5. Magic Johnson
6. Larry Bird
7. Hakeem Olajuwon
8. Duncan
9. Shaq/Kobe
10. Kobe/Shaq

I don't see how you can rate Shaq ahead of Duncan. Shaq was more dominant and a greater pain to game plan against, but both players credentials are very similar. Only difference is that Shaq did it with a former superstar in Penny, one of the top 3 players in the game today in Dwyane Wade, and arguably one of the top 10 basketball players of all time in Kobe Bryant.

Duncan did it in the same place, the same way, for longer than a decade.

I can see why you put Larry above Magic so I won't argue with you there.

If Kobe wins another ring next year, especially if its over the Heat, he jumps up 3 or 4 spots on the list.

[redzero]

What did Shaq do with Penny? Be swept? Shaq won three championships in a row as the clear number one option. He dominated in the playoffs.

[Daddy_Of_All_Trolls]

No one is going to agree on a top 10, but that's ok. However, making a list without seeing players play usually means you are influenced by what other people say, not what you observed. I am one of the few people here old enough to have seen Russell play and there is a lengthy discussion starting with post 211 here:

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=160949&page=9

Essentially I note that way back then Russell wasn't perceived as great as he is today. I also point out that Russell had more help on his 11 titles in 13 years than any player in NBA history with 4 teammates from the NBA top 50 at 50 years list, and an additional 4 more hall of famers. No wonder they won all those years. Those repliers that have seen the discussion have posted it has intrigued them.

I have never believed Russell is top 10 and it's probably in Spurs fans favor to agree with this. The reason's are it's consistent with the argument to place Tim ahead of Kobe because Kobe had help getting his titles. The next reason is, it moves Tim up a notch and allows him to challenge more top 10 candidates. The final reason is acknowledging Russell for 11 rings with a lot of help validates Kobes 5 rings as greater than tim's 4. There is a lot of discussion about this in that thread, and even Jamstone makes a pretty valid point, that Ben Wallace could be exchanged for Russell without batting an eyelash. Is Ben Wallace a top 10 player? No, he's not. There are some other notes about players who most leave off their top 10 with reasons why they remain in the discussion.

With the above in mind, I discovered a whole new topic for comparison, Kobe Bryant versus John Havlicek. I showed why Hondo may be top 10 in that thread above, and I even think he should be higher than Russell. However, the similarities of Russell/Havlicek are eerily similar to Shaq/Kobe. We know the latter story, let's look at the Russell/Havlicek facts:

1) Havlicek won 6 rings with Russell, coming off the bench as the 6th man.
2) Russell left in 1969 and the Celtics missed the playoffs for 2 years, and rebuilt around Havlicek in the draft, getting JoJo White and Dave Cowens.
3) 1972 Boston had the best record in the east, but were upset in the ECF by the New York Knicks playing without Willis Reed.
4) 1973 Boston posted the 3rd best, at that time, regular season mark of 68-14. They won all 4 games against the defending champion Lakers. They were beaten in 7 games by the Knicks, who had Reed back. New York then beat the Lakers.
5) 1974 Led by finals MVP Havlicek, Boston defeated The Bucks (Kareem and Oscar Robertson) for the NBA title, without HCA in 7 games. Granted, Milwaukke was without Lucius Allen, and Oscar Robertson was playing hurt (and retired). Howver, they survived two home losses by beating the Bucks 3 times in Milwaukee.
1975) Boston had the best record in the east but were upset in the ECF by Washington.
1976) Boston won the finals in an exciting series against Phoenix who had defeated defending champion Golden State, (who also had the best record) in 7 games in the WCF.
1977) Boston began their decline and lost to the Sixers in the second round, who were rejuvnated with Dr. J.
1978) Boston fell from the playoffs and Havlicek retired when season ended.

Havlicek has just a few more career points than Kobe. He led his team to two titles and several deep playoff runs, but missed the playoffs 3 times. Havlicek led that team from 1970-1978, 9 seasons. Kobe has led his for 6. Who is greater between the two, Havlicek or Bryant?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/havlijo01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bryanko01.html

[himat]

What did Shaq do with Penny? Be swept? Shaq won three championships in a row as the clear number one option. He dominated in the playoffs.

I'm not denying that. He wouldn't be in the discussion as a top 10 all time player if he didn't do that.

But if Kobe needed Shaq's help well Shaq obviously needed Kobe's help (or a Wade or Penny's)

I'm just saying that something should be said for Duncan staying a Spur his whole career and winning there and only there.

Shaq has been in Orlando, LA, Miami, Phoenix, Cleveland, and now Boston. Even though he may have been the most dominant inside force in the NBA his latest running from team to team puts him down in my list.

[Ashy Larry]

Happy Birfday Bean ........ Go blow Vanessa Back out

[Kobe™]

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3480/3756202107_431328e250.jpg

Happy B-Day.
Enjoy today, then the quest for #6 Begins.

[Jt.ONE]

i'm proud to say that me and jellybean share the same bday.

victory.

[Daddy_Of_All_Trolls]

Question for 3.5 years ago, winter of 2007:

Was Kobe Bryant the best player in the game?
Was Dwyane Wade #2?
Was LeBron James a choker?

Would you agree with the opinion of an All Spurs Talk second team poster (Because he's always telling us he is), and a self admitted bandwagon fan?

http://www.basketbrains.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1391

HarlemHeat37 Post subject: Miami Heat..Posted: 1:03, 7 Feb 2007

PostUp OG
Joined: 15:25, 20 Nov 2004
Posts: 3454
Location: St.Nicks
as you all know, I left the bandwagon AFTER they won the title, which doesn't make sense, but I didn't like the team they had, and I started to dislike Wade, because of all the Jordan hype..

but now as they struggled early, I started getting the Heat feeling back, and when they got Eddie Jones, that sparked shit for me..so they're my Eas team with SA as my West team..

I've also gained my respect for Wade back, because of all the hype other players are getting..I think he's the 2nd best player in the NBA, next to Kobe, and his game is a lot more complete than guys like Arenas and Melo who are getting hyped, and he can close out games a lot better than that choker Lebron..

Shaq's back, and has looked good the last few games..their team is better than last year, because they have more depth..Kapono and Wright have stepped up..

I think Miami will win the East, pretty easily IMO to prove everybody wrong..

wouldn't be surprised to see a repeat, and Shaq retire..where does everybody think they end up this season?..

For a bandwagon fan, this post a bit later is rather odd, wouldn't you say?

HarlemHeat37 Post subject: Posted: 5:35, 8 Feb 2007

PostUp OG
Joined: 15:25, 20 Nov 2004
Posts: 3454
Location: St.Nicks
I didn't even watch the finals, but I can imagine Wade got special treatment..BUT if you watched the whole playoffs, Dallas probably got the most calls out of any teams..the Spurs series especially..

but any way you put it, Dallas choked..

and Dirk gets away with almost EVERY fuckin reach he takes..I've seen about 10 Mavs games this season, and the refs assume it's always ball like Dirk is fuckin MJ or something on D..



Kind of funny too, how these two guys joined here 2 days apart, lol. Same guy.

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=11597
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=11613

[HarlemHeat37]

Continue reading through his posts and get back to me..the question about he and I having the same username and posting style is answered at one point on that forum, we're friends..:lol you think I would say that about Lebron?..

There's like 4 more HarlemHeats I know on the internet too, btw..one on a Knicks forum, one on a RapGodfathers forum, a 2nd one on RealGM, and one that posts or used to post on the Slam message board..you aren't the first to bring this up, don't feel special..

[Daddy_Of_All_Trolls]

Continue reading through his posts and get back to me..the question about he and I having the same username and posting style is answered at one point on that forum, we're friends..:lol you think I would say that about Lebron?..

Dude, you prove your case, you're on the defensive. No backpeddling allowed. Is your handle there MiamiHeat? See, you lied in the troll forum and said I never beat you in an argument where you did exactly that and gave it up for the world to see. You say you aren't going to engage me in discussion, and yet you do. If you ignore me and stop telling us you have an all spurs talk medal and how we should reply in your threads, I won't bother you. You can attach your lips to LeBron's cock all day and night. And cut out the lies about Kobe, I cleaned out your AE already on that.

If you want to say Kobe threw everyone you can think of under the bus, I have no problem with that. He is far from a perfect person. Hell, look at me. I can't beat up kids in school anymore because I am an adult now. But I can sure as hell handle morons like you. So what does that make me?

Your Daddy. You're a troll. I'm the Daddy of all Trolls. Get it?

[HarlemHeat37]

Why do you always ramble on about meaningless shit?..

You're the one that has a link in your sig that shows me beating you in an argument, how is that my fault?..you're showing everybody, not me..I haven't engaged in a serious discussion with you since I said that, and I won't, you don't have a medal..if you want serious basketball talk against me, get some recognition first..

Even by linking me a quote of a poster that isn't me, if you do believe it's me, you just unintentionally proved that I've been a Spurs fan on the internet alone for at least 6 years, thus your plan backfiring..

I'm not going to prove anything to you, I'm a medal holder, I'm just going to say that he's a friend that I copied my style from..

[Daddy_Of_All_Trolls]

Why do you always ramble on about meaningless shit?..

You're the one that has a link in your sig that shows me beating you in an argument, how is that my fault?..you're showing everybody, not me..I haven't engaged in a serious discussion with you since I said that, and I won't, you don't have a medal..if you want serious basketball talk against me, get some recognition first..

Even by linking me a quote of a poster that isn't me, if you do believe it's me, you just unintentionally proved that I've been a Spurs fan on the internet alone for at least 6 years, thus your plan backfiring..

I'm not going to prove anything to you, I'm a medal holder, I'm just going to say that he's a friend that I copied my style from..
Dude, there you go talking about your medal again. You are in serious denial of the facts. You clearly stated you would take the loss in the argument. All you could do was state your opinion to my evidence and an opinion is not a refutation. You gave 3 examples of people who said my posting sucked. When I challenged one of them to tell me why my posting sucked, he backed out. So, if I say your posting sucks does that make me win an argument? No, but it apparently does by your flawed logic.

You copied your posting style from that guy at the other board? You're not going to prove it? LOL, GUILTY as charged until you prove your innocence. So you copied another guy's posting style and his handle. Yeah, right. If that was true you would have proven it. Now you have to or just simply drop it. Meesage board member memories are short, people will forget all this. Face it, you got caught with your pants down, again.

I told you how to make me go away and you don't listen, you come back for more. Let me ask you this, does Duncan228 or Jamstone go on and on about their posting medals? No, only you do, and it's making you look stupid. You're in over your head boy. time to take another loss and I'll get bored with you. In fact, I already am. You can clinch that. Reread my last post, #1087. I don't want to discuss sports with you. You aren't up to my level of knowledge about basketball. Dude, I am 60 fricking years old, I lived trough history. Everyone else here seems to appreciate what I post. So hush.

Backfired? Well, you did seem to be a fake Spurs fan when you switched loyalties after "The Decision". "your" post says your favorite teams are the Spurs in the west, and the Heat in the east. It's just that you like the Heat more, so that makes you appear to be a phony Spurs fan who lists his primary team as the Spurs. It should have been listed as the Heat, but I guess you wanted acceptance here.

[Venti Quattro]

Drew's BMW M6 :hat :hat :hat

XCk9pCZJj8o

[Purch]

Gr9ZjRl14ck
nejQMtkyLgY

[himat]

h1o4Pk9WPK4

[cobbler]

Dude, there you go talking about your medal again. You are in serious denial of the facts. You clearly stated you would take the loss in the argument. All you could do was state your opinion to my evidence and an opinion is not a refutation. You gave 3 examples of people who said my posting sucked. When I challenged one of them to tell me why my posting sucked, he backed out. So, if I say your posting sucks does that make me win an argument? No, but it apparently does by your flawed logic.

You copied your posting style from that guy at the other board? You're not going to prove it? LOL, GUILTY as charged until you prove your innocence. So you copied another guy's posting style and his handle. Yeah, right. If that was true you would have proven it. Now you have to or just simply drop it. Meesage board member memories are short, people will forget all this. Face it, you got caught with your pants down, again.

I told you how to make me go away and you don't listen, you come back for more. Let me ask you this, does Duncan228 or Jamstone go on and on about their posting medals? No, only you do, and it's making you look stupid. You're in over your head boy. time to take another loss and I'll get bored with you. In fact, I already am. You can clinch that. Reread my last post, #1087. I don't want to discuss sports with you. You aren't up to my level of knowledge about basketball. Dude, I am 60 fricking years old, I lived trough history. Everyone else here seems to appreciate what I post. So hush.

Backfired? Well, you did seem to be a fake Spurs fan when you switched loyalties after "The Decision". "your" post says your favorite teams are the Spurs in the west, and the Heat in the east. It's just that you like the Heat more, so that makes you appear to be a phony Spurs fan who lists his primary team as the Spurs. It should have been listed as the Heat, but I guess you wanted acceptance here.

Ouuuuuch! Daddy just showing what we all know. HarlemHo is a moron who doesn't know basketball beyond an advanced stat sheet. I have absolutely loved reading all the last few weeks posts where just about everyone mops the floor with him. Classic. And tossing out the medal comments day after day... truly pathetic.

Just waiting for the day he bitches out and doesnt honor his leaving Spurstalk promise.

Well done Daddy! Well Done! :toast

[TheGreatest23]

shit sons...sign me up in the Kobe Bandwagon. Fuck Lebron that traitor.

[Venti Quattro]

new HD jumbotron going up at staples

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f214/cbrito27/photo-1.jpg

[DPG21920]

Damn, I am watching Kobe and Jordan in the 1998 All-Star game and Kobe is beasting. He is so young.

Amazing how great he was even at that early age.

[DPG21920]

Jordan destroying Kobe one on one as well right now. Back to back plays. But you can see that Kobe took it serious and learned from it. I wish I could see Kobe and Jordan go at it again.

[DPG21920]

Lakers had 4 players in this All-Star game.

[DPG21920]

Now we have a rookie Tim and Robinson on the court at the same time. What a great game.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Whottt channel?

[DPG21920]

Nba tv

[duncan228]

No easy answers for Kobe's damaged finger (http://www.ocregister.com/sports/finger-267943-bryant-index.html)
By Kevin Ding
The Orange County Register

Kobe Bryant said the summer for him would be all about getting healthy.

So, is he now? Well ...

Bryant had surgery to clean up his pesky right knee and has been recovering well. Even though it was his third surgical repair there in seven years, things should be good enough on that front.

Then there's the finger ...

Despite some speculation that he'd have surgery to fix the right index finger that he called a "constant battle" for him last season, that didn't happen. That's because surgery wouldn't really fix an arthritic finger that has so little cartilage with which to work, something Bryant found out even before July rolled around.

You don't usually have surgery when you have arthritis anyway. Maybe you get a cane, install bars in your shower or call your grandchildren for help you when you've fallen and can't get up.

Kobe being Kobe and also being just 32, he isn't quite ready for any of that.

So he has been diligently doing what he can for the finger, even if it's about as exciting as kneading dough.

An array of finger exercises is making the best of a tough situation, improving Bryant's range of motion and strength. The finger feels better than it did in June – and perhaps Bryant's daughters have come to be connoisseurs of finger puppetry – but the finger also hasn't had any 250-pound, hard-fouling dudes hacking it to make it swell.

The reality is that Bryant isn't necessarily much better off than before, because this is a chronic situation. Arthritis is the wearing down of the cartilage in the joints, and the middle knuckle on Bryant's index finger is flat-out worn down.

It was actually the top knuckle on that finger where the avulsion fracture occurred on Dec. 11 as Bryant tried to field Jordan Farmar's low pass. Bryant kept playing – and somehow managed to be NBA Western Conference Player of the Month for December – as he waited for the top knuckle to heal. Yet even before those bone fragments up there finished healing, the middle knuckle was already hurting him more than the top knuckle.

The ultimate gamer, Bryant still made do. He committed to his retooled shooting stroke with less emphasis on that index finger. You don't get much shooting touch with a finger when it's not even touching the ball because of splint and tape, so he just moved on to work with the thumb and middle finger.

Now he'll just have to keep making do.

Bryant and Lakers trainer Gary Vitti looked into some experimental, cutting-edge treatments but decided they didn't make sense at this time. This training camp, Bryant might tinker around with some different support on the finger, but odds are that the finger will need some sort of assistance for the rest of his career.

How big of a deal is that?

The numbers show Bryant was a less consistent shooter, especially from the free-throw line, after he had to deal with the finger problems last season. Let's bear in mind, though: Bryant was still the NBA Finals MVP with a hard splint and heavy tape job on the finger. Wouldn't exactly be a disaster for him to keep playing that way.

The worst he looked late last season was when the knee – not the finger – limited him. Bryant couldn't move around the court or elevate normally early in the first round of the playoffs. After Bryant got that knee drained, no matter the annoyance of his finger, he scored at least 30 points in 11 of 12 playoff games and then slayed the Celtics.

The net result is his war story, and certainly a far better one regarding that finger than Michael Jordan permanently damaging his right index finger in a cigar-cutter accident in 1999.

The thing is, Bryant can't size this new championship ring to be worn on his right index finger for kicks and be done with it. He will have to write that story again and again and again.

Yet we know by now those are the types of challenges he savors.

Until his dying day as an NBA player, every time Bryant raises that lone index finger skyward in the universal sign of being the best, it'll resonate as a symbol of even more.

[Ashy Larry]

Now we have a rookie Tim and Robinson on the court at the same time. What a great game.


I was checkin' that out as well ..... Tim looked like a freakin' third grader. They were the next wave. Good times back then.

[Venti Quattro]

BzSDxdxRY5o

[duncan228]

Bryant still recovering from knee surgery (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=mc-bryantinjury092510)
By Marc J. Spears

Kobe Bryant doesn’t know how much his surgically repaired right knee will allow him to play in the preseason, but he does plan to be on the court for the Los Angeles Lakers’ Oct. 26 season opener against the Houston Rockets.

“If it’s ready to roll, I will play,” Bryant said. “It’s tough because I don’t like talking timeline or timeframe because people get all antsy. When it’s ready, we’ll roll. I can’t see [missing the season opener]. That’s so far down the road. With where I’m at right now, strength-wise, it’s very, very good.”

Bryant, 32, underwent arthroscopic surgery on his right knee July 23 and was expected to be ready for the start of training camp, which began Saturday night. He was bothered by the injury last season and needed to have the knee drained during the first round of the playoffs.

Bryant said his knee feels a lot stronger now, but it hasn’t been truly tested yet. While Bryant didn’t have a timetable for his return, Lakers coach Phil Jackson is hopeful Bryant will play some minutes in the preseason.

“I’ve been shooting. I haven’t been doing any extensive running or anything like that,” Bryant said. “It’s been more about getting the strength up and the stamina in the leg back and running hard consistently for an entire month. I haven’t played since Game 7. I’ve been doing things around [the knee] to strengthen it for when I start playing again.

“You don’t want to get into a cycle where you rush out there because everybody is calling you to play. You kind of get into this downhill thing where you play catch-up all the time. Now you’re fighting swelling. The swelling’s out, you play. You don’t want to go back and forth.”

Bryant not only played with an injured knee much of last season, but also an arthritic right index finger. The injuries – along with the Boston Celtics’ defense – conspired to wear him down during the NBA Finals. In Game 7, he missed 18 of 24 shots.

“At one point during the playoffs, I just said I had to get us to the championship by any means,” Bryant said. “Barring future injuries, I felt like that was a year where we could lose this championship because I was playing on one leg. I got to muscle through to get through these two weeks [of the Finals], get this championship and worry about the knee later.”

[mystargtr34]

Nice... one excuse in the back pocket for ESPN and Lakerfan.. is that same pinky finger still detached from the rest of his hand?

[duncan228]

Kobe Bryant Blows Up For 43 Points In Rare High School Game (http://dimemag.com/2010/09/kobe-bryant-blows-up-for-43-points-in-rare-high-school-game/)
By Aron Phillips

For most of us, our Kobe Bryant memories come from the past 14 years he’s been in the NBA. Seeing as how he never played college ball, unless you were from the Philly area, chances are you never saw Kobe before he became Kobe. With that said, check out the 17-year-old dominating at the Gym Rat Midnight Madness (http://gymratmidnightmadness.org/) in New Jersey. He’s kind of a beast.

fNj9EM1aBUc

[picc84]

Nice... one excuse in the back pocket for ESPN and Lakerfan.. is that same pinky finger still detached from the rest of his hand?

Excuses are only necessary for losers.

Manu's nose "injury", for instance.

[duncan228]

Kobe tops Europe jersey sales for third straight year (http://www.nba.com/2010/news/09/30/jerseys-europe/index.html)
By Official release
NBA.com

The Los Angeles Lakers' Kobe Bryant tops the list of most popular NBA jerseys in Europe for the third consecutive year. Coming off his fifth NBA title in 2010, Bryant also has the most popular jersey in the U.S. and China. Moving up two spots to No. 2 is LeBron James, formerly of the Cleveland Cavaliers. The Miami Heat's Dwyane Wade rounds out the top three. The Most Popular NBA Jerseys in Europe list is based on sales from retail locations across Europe during the 2009-10 NBA season.

European NBA players continue to gain popularity in their homeland, representing six of the top 15 players on this year's list. They include Pau Gasol of the Los Angles Lakers (No. 4), Andrea Barganani and Jose Calderon of the Toronto Raptors (No. 6 and No. 7, respectively), Dirk Nowitzki of the Dallas Mavericks (No. 9), Tony Parker of the San Antonio Spurs (No. 10), and Danilo Gallinari of the New York Knicks (No. 11). International players make up approximately 20 percent of NBA rosters.

Top 15 Most Popular Jerseys in Europe
Player Team
1. Kobe Bryant Los Angeles Lakers
2. LeBron James Cleveland Cavaliers*
3. Dwyane Wade Miami Heat
4. Pau Gasol Los Angeles Lakers
5. Kevin Garnett Boston Celtics
6. Andrea Bargnani Toronto Raptors
7. Jose Calderon Toronto Raptors
8. Dwight Howard Orlando Magic
9. Dirk Nowitzki Dallas Mavericks
10. Tony Parker San Antonio Spurs
11. Danilo Gallinari New York Knicks
12. Joakim Noah Chicago Bulls
13. Chris Paul New Orleans Hornets
14. Paul Pierce Boston Celtics
15. Carmelo Anthony Denver Nuggets

*Now with the Miami Heat

Keep Reading... (http://www.nba.com/2010/news/09/30/jerseys-europe/index.html)

[duncan228]

Kobe admits knee was "extremely painful" during finals, about 60 percent now (http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/10/kobe-admits-knee-was-extremely-painful-during-finals-about-60-percent-now.php)
By Kurt Helin

Kobe Bryant played six minutes in the Lakers first exhibition game in London, after which he sat with ice on his knees.

Londoners chanted his name in the second half, but they got more Pau Gasol. Kobe played the six minutes he did out of obligation to the fans, his knees need more rest and recovery following offseason surgery.

Surgery he needed because those knees were sore. Lakers.com reporter Mike Trudell (http://my.lakers.com/blogs/2010/10/04/lakers-92-wolves-111-london-diary/) had these postgame comments from Kobe on Twitter (http://twitter.com/LakersReporter):


Kobe said his knee was "extremely, extremely painful during the NBA Finals." Said he feels better, but is at about "60%" tonight.

Kobe Bryant: "I wanted to get up and get in" when the chants came. "But I had the ice on the knees. Couldn't get back in."

Kobe did drag those knees to a finals MVP performance, but it's another sign these Lakers are built to win now -- the next handful of years -- and then the window closes. Kobe is 32 with a lot of miles on him, Derek Fisher is 36 and Gasol, Artest, Odom, basically all the key Lakers outside Andrew Bynum are 30 or older. The Lakers may be younger than the Celtics but really only by a couple years.

Kobe will play sparingly in the preseason. Come Oct. 26 and the opener against the Rockets, expect 30 some minutes. Whether his knees are ready or not.

[HarlemHeat37]

:lol Biggest excuse maker in sports history..

[Kobe™]

:lol Biggest excuse maker in sports history..

http://i55.tinypic.com/2ip2ra.png

[duncan228]

Phil set for now to limit Kobe to 16 minutes a game (http://lakers.ocregister.com/2010/10/11/phil-set-for-now-to-limit-kobe-to-16-minutes-per-game/41958/)
by Kevin Ding
Orange County Register

Phil Jackson acquiesced to Kobe Bryant’s request to re-enter the Lakers’ loss in Barcelona. That didn’t go well, and Jackson said Saturday he would talk to Bryant about it (http://www.ocregister.com/sports/bryant-270515-jackson-one.html).

Jackson said Monday one way he’ll adjust that situation is limiting Bryant’s playing time in upcoming exhibition games while his surgically repaired right knee gets stronger. He played 25 minutes in Barcelona, but Jackson said 16 minutes is enough now — which would mean Bryant going for eight minutes to start each half.

“Any more than that right now is expecting a little too much,” Jackson said.

The Lakers play the Sacramento Kings in Las Vegas on Wednesday night. The next games after that are Saturday and Sunday at Staples Center.

[MiamiHeat]

My opinion about Kobe the person is changing

He doesn't seem like a fake ass bitch anymore when he's talking. He is behaving like a normal person in interviews, seems like he dropped the fake personality, the acting, and some of the MJ biting.

He's more of a normal, genuine person now.

[DeadlyDynasty]

My opinion about Kobe the person is changing

He doesn't seem like a fake ass bitch anymore when he's talking. He is behaving like a normal person in interviews, seems like he dropped the fake personality, the acting, and some of the MJ biting.

He's more of a normal, genuine person now.

I just hope one day LBJ will see the error of his ways as well:toast

[Venti Quattro]

For Bryant, it’s all about the chase (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=ArvGjN2bHv6P.dwJwV8EkIe8vLYF?slug=mc-bryantlakers101810)

LOS ANGELES – Kobe Bryant is pursuing his sixth NBA championship, a benchmark that would match Michael Jordan’s career total and immediately launch a debate about how the Los Angeles Lakers star measures up to the league’s greatest player ever.

Jordan, however, doesn’t sound quite ready to allow Bryant to stand toe to toe with him.

“He is always going to be within the conversations of some of the greatest players who’ve played, by the time he is finished,” Jordan recently told USA Today about Bryant. “Where does he rank among those, if you are talking about positions? If you are talking about guards, I would say he has got to be in the top 10.”

Not top five. And certainly not top two.

Top 10.

Bryant didn’t take Jordan’s comments as an insult.

“It’s an accurate statement,” Bryant said. “I’m definitely one of the top 10 guards. It could mean two, it could mean one, it could mean four or five. I’m definitely one of the top thousand. Look, I know how he feels about me.

“There have been a lot of great guards to play the game. For me to sit here and say, ‘He should have said top five,’ that’s disrespectful to the other guards that I’ve watched.”

When asked whether Jordan’s words were motivating, Bryant said: “That stuff doesn’t get to me. You can’t motivate me or take me to a place that I’m not already at.”

So where does Bryant think he ranks amongst the NBA’s best?

“I can’t put myself in that position – I really can’t,” Bryant said.

Bryant, however, is comfortable revealing how he hopes to be remembered after his career is over. He entered the NBA in 1996 as a No. 13 pick. At that time, only former Lakers general manager Jerry West had visions of Bryant becoming a superstar.

“I’ve always been comfortable as a kid growing up to think that when my career is over, I want them to think of me as an overachiever despite the talent that I have,” Bryant said. “To think of me as a person that’s overachieved, that would mean a lot to me. That means I put a lot of work in and squeezed every ounce of juice out of this orange that I could.

“Hopefully, they perceive me as person who did whatever he had to do to win above all else. Above anything. Above stats. … If they say that about me I’ll be happy.”

Bryant claims he isn’t motivated by trying to match Jordan, but he does respect the elite company he would join by winning his sixth championship. Only 13 NBA players have more than five NBA titles. No Laker has ever won more than five titles with the franchise.

“I don’t look at it as motivation,” said Bryant, who hasn’t talked to Jordan since the Lakers played at Charlotte last season. “I’ve never given it thought that I wanted to get six to catch Michael. His six and my six are different. That’s not to say that his were more challenging than mine because I had to play a different role and do something out of character my first three. They’re just different.

“It steps into a territory that only a select few have ever been to. I understand. That’s what special to me, that I’m this fortunate to have this opportunity. So, let’s try to make the most of it.”

Most of the offseason attention has been on the Miami Heat adding LeBron James and Chris Bosh to play with Dwyane Wade. But the Lakers also could be better after signing Steve Blake, Matt Barnes and Theo Ratliff.

“The excitement is warranted,” Bryant said. “Obviously, the trophy remains with us. [Other teams] have made steps in the right direction to try to take it from us. That’s what makes it exciting. The hype is warranted. But for us, it’s business as usual.”

The Lakers’ biggest concerns center on the health of Bryant and center Andrew Bynum, who both had knee surgery. Bynum isn’t expected to be back until the end of November, at the earliest. Bryant struggled in his first four preseason games, averaging 10 points on just 22 percent shooting, before scoring 19 points in the third quarter of Sunday’s game against the Utah Jazz.

“I’m pleased with my development,” Bryant said. “I feel like I’m getting better every day.”

For now, Bryant isn’t worried about the Heat. Or Jordan. He’s just hungry to chase another championship.

“For me, the special comes in the challenge of it,” he said. “That’s why last year was so special for me because we were like down and out. I remember doing a press conference when we were down 3-2 [in the NBA Finals] and everyone was saying nail-in-the-coffin stuff. That’s what makes it special for me.”

[Venti Quattro]

2BMeo19kP30

[DeadlyDynasty]

Kobe statline vs. Houston: 8-20, 27 points, 5 rebounds, 7 assists, 1 steal, 1 turnover. Pretty dece start, I love the fact that Pau got most of the shots tho...hopefully it stays that way

[Ode to Triple Ocho]

http://images.sneakernews.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/puppet_t1.jpg

[Jt.ONE]

congrats bean for becoming lakers all time leading scorer

[Ashy Larry]

congrats bean for becoming lakers all time leading scorer

he did that last year. don't you mean the all-time minute man?

[namlook]

Barkley finally broke down and said Kobe is top 5 all time. He said he wanted to clarify when he said last week Kobe was a top 10 player of all-time. He said he's actually top 5 all time. He said he's better than Bird and Magic. That's surprising coming from a hater like Chuck.

He said his top 5 is:

MJ
Oscar
Russell
Wilt
Kobe

Kenny said Kareem has to be in the top 5, so he agreed that Kobe is top 6 of all time.

[DAF86]

8 for 27 in 31 minutes. This guy has no shame.

[Venti Quattro]

It's against the Wolves, and they won by 20. It's ugly but it doesn't really matter

But 23 points on 27 shots? Maaaan that's ugly

[DAF86]

It's against the Wolves, and they won by 20. It's ugly but it doesn't really matter

But 23 points on 27 shots? Maaaan that's ugly

The fact that is against the Wolves and that LA won by 20 makes this even more retarded, he should have chilled and played within the rythm of the offense.

[Venti Quattro]

Maybe he thought, "hey we're leading, why not take weird shots"

But that's a lame excuse lol

[mystargtr34]

.

[Jelloisjigglin]

It's against the Wolves, and they won by 20. It's ugly but it doesn't really matter

But 23 points on 27 shots? Maaaan that's ugly


Not trying to make excuses for him but apparently he was hit on that arthritic finger again. Probably had something to do with his shooting.

[DAF86]

Not trying to make excuses for him but apparently he was hit on that arthritic finger again. Probably had something to do with his shooting.

Why did he take 27 shots in a blowout then?

[Jelloisjigglin]

Why did he take 27 shots in a blowout then?


He was forcing it tbh. Not a good game by any stretch but it was a blow out so it doesn't really matter.

[Venti Quattro]

Why did he take 27 shots in a blowout then?

Shooting relieves the pain

[Venti Quattro]

Kobe still tough, with assists from the greats (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AksqyK2yFNwYA_QEmrPin6C8vLYF?slug=aw-kobebryantchat112310)
By Adrian Wojnarowski, Yahoo! Sports 2 hours, 42 minutes ago

MINNEAPOLIS – Out of nowhere one afternoon, Michael Jackson made a call to the irrepressible and isolated Kobe Bryant, and so much changed for him. From a distance, the King of Pop could sense so much of his own obsessive genius within the prodigy. Bryant was the 18-year-old wonder for the Los Angeles Lakers, and no one knew what to make of a restlessness borne of a desperate desire for greatness.

"He noticed I was getting a lot of [expletive] for being different," Bryant said.

They would talk for hours and hours, visiting at Neverland Ranch, and Bryant has long been fortified by the lessons Jackson instilled about the burden of honoring true talent, about the ways to open your mind to be smarter, sharper and insatiable in the chase.

"It sounds weird, I guess, but it's true: I was really mentored by the preparation of Michael Jackson," Bryant told Yahoo! Sports.

Bryant isn't much for nostalgia and sentimentality, but it hung in the air as he cut into his steak over dinner recently in the fourth-floor restaurant at the Graves Hotel. Jackson is gone, but Bryant is going on 15 years with the Lakers.

"We would always talk about how he prepared to make his music, how he prepared for concerts," Bryant said. "He would teach me what he did: How to make a 'Thriller' album, a 'Bad' album, all the details that went into it. It was all the validation that I needed – to know that I had to focus on my craft and never waver. Because what he did – and how he did it – was psychotic. He helped me get to a level where I was able to win three titles playing with Shaq because of my preparation, my study. And it's only all grown.

"That's the mentality that I have – it's not an athletic one. It's not from [Michael] Jordan. It's not from other athletes.

"It's from Michael Jackson."

Bryant wore his Lakers varsity jacket, purple gold. It had several championship trophies across the back. For all the cynicism the years have brought him, a lot of that teenager still lives within. Kobe Bryant is 32 years old now, and he keeps coming and coming like nothing witnessed since Jordan himself.

He's chasing his sixth championship, a second three-peat, and still, Kobe Bryant doesn't want to talk about Twitter followers. He doesn't want to talk about all the Hollywood acting roles he has turned down, the parties and nightlife that he has mostly forsaken in his career. He's chasing a ticking clock, chasing the ghosts before him – Jordan and Magic and Russell.

The world has changed around Bryant in this modern NBA, but his core basketball values have remained largely untouched and unimpeachable: His will stays greater than yours; his talent evolves but hardly diminishes. His single-mindedness remains maniacal.

"Guys have voices now, want to build brands," Bryant said. "I don't identify with it, but I understand where it's going, why it's going there. That's not for me. I focus on one thing and one thing only – that's trying to win as many championships as I can."

Yes, he's got five, and the Lakers stand as a favorite to get him his sixth this season. The false god of celebrity still isn't intoxicating to him like the grit, the grind of greatness. He still loves the work, craves the pain that comes with pushing himself – pushing everyone. The craft, he calls it: Honor the craft. On the night before every game, he still downloads video into his iPhone from Mike Procopio in Chicago about how opponents may attack him, the way the defenders will rotate to him, the spots where he can feed his teammates the ball – small things beyond the Lakers' own scouting reports, another edge. Sometimes, they'll email thoughts back and forth past midnight, which isn't such a big deal because Bryant seldom sleeps more than three hours a night.

For him, so much of the genius remains in the details.

So when you start a question, "I know you don't see the end coming ... ," Bryant corrects you quickly. "But it's a lot closer; I can see the light at the end of the tunnel."

And you won't be the one to stay too long, to make them rip the jersey off your back?

"Just thinking about some of the guys that I take advantage of now, taking advantage of me later – that doesn't sit too well with me," Bryant said.

In a lot of ways, Bryant believes he has never been better. Every time he sees Boston Celtics great Bill Russell, they talk about the ways that you grow, about the ways you take your team and mold and push and prod it. The biggest revelations, the epiphanies, have come out of Bryant's own trial and error, his own successes and failures.

For the modern athlete, his recovery from the scandal of the Eagle, Colorado, assault case has been one of sport's most remarkable.

"You don't have a choice," Bryant said. "You come out of it and you come out of it better than you were. You can crawl up into a little ball like a coward – or you can fight it."

Well beyond his most trying personal test, Bryant sees the growth within his professional self in the oddest moments and times. Just a week ago, on a cold night in Milwaukee, he had gone to the scorers table to substitute for Shannon Brown. Only, Brown was hot. He hit a 3-pointer, and another, and another, and soon Bryant – waiting to check into the game with Lamar Odom – told Odom that he should take out Luke Walton, and Bryant would get Matt Barnes.

Said Bryant: "Because now I understand: 'Let him go; let him ride that.' Back in my younger days, I never would've thought about that."

Ask him what he embraces in his early 30s that he never understood in his 20s, and there's no hesitation: It's what everyone insisted he had been a failure with, a perception that he has transformed with two post-Shaquille O'Neal championships.

"How to truly make players better, what that really means," he said. "It's not just passing to your guys and getting them shots. It's not getting this or that many players into double figures. That's bull[expletive]. That's not how you win championships. You've got to change the culture of your team – that's how you truly make guys better. In a way, you have to help them to get the same DNA that you have, the same focus you have, maybe even close to the same drive. That's how you make guys better.

"I've never understood this stuff, where a star player sits out and a team goes into the tank. Well, they need him because he makes them better. Well, if he's making them better, they should be able to survive without him. That's how you lead your guys. You've got to be able to make guys suffice on their own, without you. If you're there all the time and they take you away, they shouldn't need a respirator.

"Once I understood all that, I looked at things completely different. I took my hands off. I didn't try to control them. I let them make decisions, make their own [expletive]-ups and I was there to try and help them through it."

As much as anyone, Russell led Bryant to those epiphanies. At an NBA All-Star weekend years ago, Bryant introduced himself to the legendary Celtics center and they've never missed a chance to sit and share thoughts and memories since. Things Russell told him years ago made more sense as Bryant grew up, grew older and saw leadership and winning through more advanced prisms. When the rest of the league's best players were invited to play at the White House this summer, Bryant ended up sitting on the side with Russell because of his knee surgery.

"Bill is always a Celtic, but I think he's appreciated my thirst for knowledge," Bryant said.

He'll never reach Russell's 11 championships, but he has a chance to pass Magic Johnson's five championships, pass Michael Jordan's six and get closest. For as much sense as Russell made to Bryant over the summer in Washington, something else there completely confounded him. As he walked the District's streets in August, people peppered him with three words: Beat the Heat.

Beat the Heat?

"That's what I get a lot now," Bryant said. 'Beat the Heat.' "

Truth be told, it hadn't occurred to him that would be the mantra for the two-time defending champion Lakers.

"Um, they're in the East," Bryant would say.

Which was his polite way of saying: For starters, how about they beat Boston and Orlando? And now, at 9-8, let's face it: The least of LeBron and the Miami Heat's worries ought to be Kobe and Los Angeles Lakers.

Bryant won't call it insulting, only saying: "It's funny. I get a good chuckle out of it."

History matters to him, and that's why you see his eyes grow as wide as half-dollars when the rivalry with the Boston Celtics gets raised. As Bryant attempts to chase down Jordan's six titles, the Lakers will try to chase down the Celtics' 17 titles this spring. The NBA scripted the Lakers vs. Heat on Christmas Day, but Bryant is convinced that these things can be so easily manufactured, made to matter because of television marketers.

"It's another game," he said. "I don't think the masses understand that. It's just another game. It's the Heat. I mean, Christmas morning, I'm going to open presents with my kids. I'm going to take pictures of them opening the presents. Then I'm going to come to the Staples Center and get ready to work.

"But I'm not doing anything different. I don't have to."

The Celtics?

Yes, the Celtics are different.

"Now that's a war," Bryant said. "Boston is a great city to go to, all the history. If you're an opponent, they hate your [expletive] guts – like New York, like Chicago, all those Eastern cities. That's the one that gets me excited.

"If you're a basketball purist, that's the [expletive] you want to see."

The Celtics have framed Bryant for history. He sees them as championship peers. He lost in six games to Boston in the 2008 Finals and beat them in seven in 2010. For Bryant, who considers himself a direct descendent of the basketball '80s, there's a passage to greatness. To be the best player in the sport, well, Bryant promises there's a rite of passage which comes with the biggest performances in the biggest games, a rite that comes with titles.

History dictates the rules, the criteria, and people don't get to be called the best player in the sport without earning it the way predecessors did. He wouldn't sit here over dinner and declare himself the best player in the sport, but he's never conceded it to LeBron James or Kevin Durant.

Validation comes with victory. This rule doesn't belong to him; it belongs to history.

"In an individual sport, yes, you have to win titles," Bryant said. "Baseball's different. But basketball, hockey? One person can control the tempo of a game, can completely alter the momentum of a series. There's a lot of great individual talent. Oscar Robertson was a great individual talent. So was Elgin Baylor. Part of my frustration was that I didn't want to go down that path for the second half of my career. I didn't want to be a Dominique Wilkins. I didn't want to be an Elgin Baylor and not win. ...

"Part of the pride within me was that I won by being the sidekick. I'm going to be the only player in league history that's won being a sidekick – and I had a lot of responsibility – going to be the only player to do that, and being the main guy. I'm going to show you that I can do that.

"How do I get to the next level? How do I get everyone around me to the next level? Yeah, you've got to win; that's what I had to do. I was a great individual talent but I wasn't comfortable with that. I wanted to do more."

Kobe Bryant wasn't naming names, but hey, if the Nikes fit ...

"Michael wasn't Michael until he won championships," Bryant said. "It's as simple as that."

In so many ways, this has become an NBA of cliques, buddies hanging out with buddies. James wanted to play with Wade and Bosh. Amar'e Stoudemire, Chris Paul and Carmelo Anthony have toasted to the possibility of playing together in New York. The draft class of 2003 – James and Wade, Anthony and Bosh – has always run as a pack, always been associates more than adversaries.

Kobe Bryant arrived in the NBA as a lone wolf, has played his whole career that way, and that's how he'll leave the league. One of the things which Michael Jackson helped him understand was that, ultimately, you're competing far more with your own standards, your own limits, than someone else's. Bryant's never run around in packs of players, never let his career be judged or driven in the context of his contemporaries.

"That's how I am," Bryant said. "That's what made me tough. I didn't need other guys to push me. This is me. I'm like this with you, and I'm like this without you. Michael [Jackson] was the same way. That was our connection."

Once the NBA's twentysomething stars were done with the stage-smoke shows this summer, the preening, the predicting of five and six championships, they were playing ball at the White House with the president. On a tour of the West Wing, Bryant tried to be hospitable in those most-familiar surroundings.

"You've got to go to the bathroom? Oh, go that way, take a left and then turn right," Bryant said, his head bobbing back in laughter now. "Oh, you want the chef? I know where he is, too. We've been a few times."

Yes, Kobe Bryant kind of liked that one. All he knows is this: Between now and the London Olympics in 2012, one of his U.S. teammates ought to do himself a favor and win a championship. Otherwise, it'll be a long, hot summer of Bryant riding them all. Around Team USA, they'll tell you that Kobe Bryant and Dwyane Wade were the two Americans who had the dispositions to dominate in the gold-medal game's fourth quarter. "Our alpha dogs," one official said.

Privately, there are plenty of national-team elders and coaches who are curious about how that chemistry will work in 2012. Mostly, they wonder whether James will see it as his time, his team, with Bryant 34 years old. From the return of the Miami clique to the arrival of Kevin Durant, it'll be a different dynamic, a different vibe.

For a moment, Bryant tried to answer it diplomatically.

"Um, I don't know," he said.

Only, Kobe Bryant did know – and finally said so.

"Actually, I really don't give a [expletive]. I'm not curious about it. Give me my [expletive] gold medal and then let me try to win another NBA championship. Let's practice, have a good time, and if you need me in the last two minutes of the game, I'll be coming in to pull the [expletive] out."

And there you go. Whatever everyone thought would happen this summer, here we are in November and something hasn't changed in the NBA: They're still chasing Bryant. Every year, something else is going to stop him. This time, it was the knee. It was LeBron and Wade on South Beach. Something. It's always something.

"They don't learn," Bryant said. "I'm here. I'm not going anywhere. No matter what the injury – unless it's completely debilitating – I'm going to be the same player I've always been. I'll figure it out. I'll make some tweaks, some changes, but I'm still coming."

Bryant is 32, chasing Jordan and Russell the way the rest of the twentysomethings chase him. And now he sits up straight and says it one more time, because he wants to make sure everyone understands the truth of the matter.

"I'm still coming."

[JamStone]

Nice read. Didn't know that he had a relationship with Michael Jackson like that. Some really good stuff in the article.

Odd way to end the article though... "I'm still coming."

[Red Hawk #21]

"Actually, I really don't give a [expletive]. I'm not curious about it. Give me my [expletive] gold medal and then let me try to win another NBA championship. Let's practice, have a good time, and if you need me in the last two minutes of the game, I'll be coming in to pull the [expletive] out."

This is exactly why I greatly respect Kobe.

[duncan228]

Kobe Bryant is wearing Grinch shoes on Christmas. Seriously. (http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/11/23/kobe-bryant-is-wearing-grinch-shoes-on-christmas-seriously/)
Kurt Helin

http://nbcprobasketballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/kobe-christmas-top.jpg?w=320

Kobe Bryant is going Grinch for Christmas.

Those shoes burning a hole in your retina to the right are the Grinch edition of the Nike Zoom Kobe VI (http://www.solecollector.com/Sneakers/News/Nike-Zoom-Kobe-VI-Christmas-New-Images/) (via The Basketball Jones (http://blogs.thescore.com/tbj/2010/11/23/kobe-bryants-christmas-shoe/)), Kobe’s latest signature shoe. Based on the iconic Dr. Seuss character that’s as cuddly as a cactus and as charming as an eel, Kobe is going to put them on for the Christmas Day game against the Miami Heat.

Which seems fitting, as Kobe has all the tender sweetness of a seasick crocodile and he is going to try to steal the holiday fun from the Miami Heat. To rip their hearts out on national television, as his own little gift to Cleveland. Not that stealing the fun from the Heat (http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/11/23/lebron-james%e2%80%99s-plan-to-fix-the-heat-%e2%80%9cwe-need-to-have-more-fun%e2%80%9d/) is all that hard right now.

But at home Christmas afternoon, some poor father who just got a sweet new 42-inch flat screen, is going to spend an inordinate amount of time adjusting the color on the set because Kobe’s shoes are just not going to look right.

[wanggi]

Everbody knows that the Lakers are lucky having Pau Gasol. Otherwise, they still suck.:lol

[ChickHearnMic]

Kobe Bryant is wearing Grinch shoes on Christmas. Seriously. (http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/11/23/kobe-bryant-is-wearing-grinch-shoes-on-christmas-seriously/)
Kurt Helin

http://nbcprobasketballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/kobe-christmas-top.jpg?w=320


But at home Christmas afternoon,
some poor father who just got a sweet new 42-inch flat screen, is going to spend an inordinate amount of time adjusting the color on the set because Kobe’s shoes are just not going to look right.

This writer from NBC Sports must be really bored.
It's not that serious. lol :lol
It's Kobe's only time he'll every wear green kicks during a NBA game.
Christmas Colored Shoes on Christmas Day and plus he gotta earn that 60 million Nike is paying him. lol

The Grinch who Stole Christmas is a solid marketable decision.
My kids watch all the classics.


NBC fell out of the loop with the NBA.
Its been a decade since the NBA on NBC days.

[Jelloisjigglin]

Everbody knows that the Lakers are lucky having Paul Gasol. Otherwise, they still suck.


Everyone knows that the Lakers don't have a player named Paul Gasol.

[Rummpd]

Maybe this should be changed to a Manu Thread all the Time!

Right now for all of Kobe's historical greatness = he is not the player Manu Ginobili is and Manu deserves, not Mr. Green Shoes Bryant, to be the starting SG in the all star game if he keeps his performance going forward (although that will never happen with the insane current voting system).

Manu's PER and shooting percentage are both higher than Kobe and most importantly, Manu has been more clutch.

No surprise there as Manu has a history of being better than Kobe in that regard when metrics were looked at in 2009 before Manu's injuries last year: http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/john_schuhmann/11/05/clutch.numbersgame/index.html

[LakasRool4eva]

maybe this should be changed to a manu thread all the time!
gtfo.................

[H Town]

Kobe is a stonecold KILLER!!! Even Battier the supposed, "Kobe Stopper" can't even stop him...

[young.hustle]

why are u talkin about this loser?

Lebron james is better than jordan .. dayum people told me on this forum you guys know basketball.

[duncan228]

Kobe’s high school gym to be named after him (http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/12/07/kobe%e2%80%99s-high-school-gym-to-be-named-after-him/)
Kurt Helin

NBA fans around the league know of Lower Merion High School in Philadelphia because of this announcement:

“At guard, 6’6”, out of Lower Merion High School… Kobe Bryant.”

Next week Kobe Bryant will be a permanent part of the school as its gym gets named after him. Well, to be fair that happened after Bryant wrote a massive check to have the building redone (http://www.philly.com/philly/news/breaking/111388994.html?cmpid=15585797), the Philadelphia Inquirer reports (via CBS Facts & Rumors (http://nba-facts-and-rumors.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22748484/26297149?source=rss_blogs_NBA)).


This year, Bryant, the perennial all-star and face of the Los Angeles Lakers, donated $411,000 to the Lower Merion School District. The gift, the largest ever to the district, is to help fund “a series of inspirational, interactive, and educational displays” at the newly completed, $100 million high school.

The school board voted to name the gym after Bryant, citing not just his donation but a history of support for the school, whose Aces basketball team he led to a state championship in 1996.

Kobe told ESPNLosAngeles (http://sports.espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/news/story?id=5893160) he was pretty excited by all this.


“It’s cool for me,” Bryant said. “That’s obviously where playing in the NBA kind of became a realistic goal. I put a lot of work in, a lot of hours in that gym, with a lot of people that support me and still support me to this day. It will be cool to go back there.”

The dedication ceremony is next week because Kobe and he Lakers will be in Philly to take on the Sixers then. The event is almost sold out — both the $25 regular seats and the $250 VIP seats with reception.

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/12/07/kobe%e2%80%99s-high-school-gym-to-be-named-after-him/

[lefty]

Must be a white girls gym

[Killakobe81]

Must be a white girls gym

LOL Now that IS funny ...

[Killakobe81]

From Mike wilbon on ESPN, this ...

Kobe Bryant is one of the 10 best players to play the game of basketball. But he will never be as great as Michael Jordan. Don't dare read this as Kobe-hating. I'm rooting for Kobe to be in the Finals this spring again. But nobody has ever been as good as Jordan, not LeBron James, either; and he never will be, and people in my business need to stop suggesting it. There's not an all-court player in the game today who does anything as well as Jordan did. Just consider this one stat: If you take out his final full season (1997-98), the lowest shooting percentage in Jordan's career with the Bulls is higher than the highest shooting percentage of Kobe's career. I'm sure we'll revisit this a bunch of times in the spring, when Kobe is approaching his sixth title, which would tie him with Jordan.

i agree with most of this, Kobe is not as good as MJ. I disagree with a couple of things there are some things (very little) that Kobe and Lebron do better than MJ but overall MJ is better than both. I still think Lebron has a chance to threaten GOAT status but he better start winning titles soon. Kobe will climb that top 10 list even further but I doubt he will surpass MJ or Kareem or Magic ... he had a shot at surpassing them eary in his career but now that opportunity has passed kobe by ...

[lefty]

i agree with most of this, Kobe is not as good as MJ. I disagree with a couple of things there are some things (very little) that Kobe and Lebron do better than MJ but overall MJ is better than both. I still think Lebron has a chance to threaten GOAT status but he better start winning titles soon. Kobe will climb that top 10 list even further but I doubt he will surpass MJ or Kareem or Magic ... he had a shot at surpassing them early in his career but now that opportunity has passed kobe by ...
What do you mean exactly?

The selfishness he had early in his career that prevented him from having better assists numbers and FG% (from not forcing shots) ?

[Magic2Kobe]

Wow. Kobe got a big thread

[lefty]

Wow. Kobe got a big thread
That's not what that Colorado chick said

[TheMACHINE]

That's not what that Colorado chick said

badabing!

[Fpoonsie]

Watchin the "Hardwood Classic" Shaq's return to LA with the Heat game. 2 things come to mind:

1) Kobe's such a fucking pimp, it's ridiculous.

and 2) If that fat fuck wins another ring w/ Boston, I'm gonna take a flight to Boston and start picking people off at Fenway opening day.

[SpursDynasty85]

Timmy's just soo talented..

[SpursDynasty85]

such an offensive foul.. Nene's a little b*tch

[SpursDynasty85]

Kobe Bryant is one of the 10 best players to play the game of basketball. But he will never be as great as Michael Jordan. Don't dare read this as Kobe-hating. I'm rooting for Kobe to be in the Finals this spring again. But nobody has ever been as good as Jordan, not LeBron James, either; and he never will be, and people in my business need to stop suggesting it. There's not an all-court player in the game today who does anything as well as Jordan did. Just consider this one stat: If you take out his final full season (1997-98), the lowest shooting percentage in Jordan's career with the Bulls is higher than the highest shooting percentage of Kobe's career. I'm sure we'll revisit this a bunch of times in the spring, when Kobe is approaching his sixth title, which would tie him with Jordan.

i agree with most of this, Kobe is not as good as MJ. I disagree with a couple of things there are some things (very little) that Kobe and Lebron do better than MJ but overall MJ is better than both. I still think Lebron has a chance to threaten GOAT status but he better start winning titles soon. Kobe will climb that top 10 list even further but I doubt he will surpass MJ or Kareem or Magic ... he had a shot at surpassing them eary in his career but now that opportunity has passed kobe by ...


The only thing Kobe has done better than Jordan is 3 point shooting and clever tricks to score. Arguably Jordan could have done all those things if he needed to. He was utterly the most dominant player on the court during every single play. He never needed to isolate himself and go 1v1 vs his player. Then work on his 1v1 game and tear players up. He did that really late in his career while that was Kobe's game from the get go. Jordan was too busy doing whatever it took to win the game, while Kobe was too busy becoming the best player he could be. The difference is Jordan was the most dominant force in the game, while Kobe developed the prettiest looking game.

But arguably, alot of what Kobe does, Jordan has done.

[jestersmash]

From Mike wilbon on ESPN, this ...

Kobe Bryant is one of the 10 best players to play the game of basketball. But he will never be as great as Michael Jordan. Don't dare read this as Kobe-hating. I'm rooting for Kobe to be in the Finals this spring again. But nobody has ever been as good as Jordan, not LeBron James, either; and he never will be, and people in my business need to stop suggesting it. There's not an all-court player in the game today who does anything as well as Jordan did. Just consider this one stat: If you take out his final full season (1997-98), the lowest shooting percentage in Jordan's career with the Bulls is higher than the highest shooting percentage of Kobe's career. I'm sure we'll revisit this a bunch of times in the spring, when Kobe is approaching his sixth title, which would tie him with Jordan.

i agree with most of this, Kobe is not as good as MJ. I disagree with a couple of things there are some things (very little) that Kobe and Lebron do better than MJ but overall MJ is better than both. I still think Lebron has a chance to threaten GOAT status but he better start winning titles soon. Kobe will climb that top 10 list even further but I doubt he will surpass MJ or Kareem or Magic ... he had a shot at surpassing them eary in his career but now that opportunity has passed kobe by ...

I find that type of reasoning to be patently absurd. Never, really? Never? That type of reasoning speaks more to people just wanting to have one player of "legend" who people want to deem untouchable. I hate this kind of reasoning.

I understand the allure, I really do, but to claim that Kobe or Lebron can simply never touch Jordan regardless of how they perform in the future is patently absurd.

Hypothetical - Kobe wins 4 more rings, 4 more regular season MVPs, 4 more Finals MVPs from this point onward. Hell, while we're doing hypotheticals, let's really go over the top just to prove a point - forget 4, let's say 8, or 10. Will Jordan still be so untouchable?

Obviously any sensible person will tell you that this won't happen. I know that. I'm not suggesting in the slightest that Kobe is capable of achieving such a feat. I'm merely trying to shed light on this annoying practice of arbitrarily deeming players "untouchable" for its own sake.

[LkrFan]

Must be a white girls gym
:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao :lmao:lmao:lmao

[lefty]

Trip home stirs Bryant’s nostalgia

http://l.yimg.com/a/i/us/sp/ed/experts/wojnarowski.png By Adrian Wojnarowski (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/expertsarchive?author=Adrian+Wojnarowski), Yahoo! Sports 12 hours, 51 minutes ago





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On the Los Angeles Lakers (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/teams/lal/)’ preseason trip to Barcelona, Kobe Bryant (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3118/)(notes) (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3118/news) watched the young kids with a basketball and marveled over the differences in the development of too many players in the States.
“Every single one, it seemed – the 8-year-old, the 9-year-olds – go left and they go right,” Bryant told Yahoo! Sports recently. “The older ones shoot the jump hook with the left, and they shoot the jump hook with the right. You’ve got bigger kids who can shoot from the outside, who can handle the ball and play. A lot of young players that look like [Pau] Gasol, who are just so skilled.
More From Adrian Wojnarowski


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Rockets, Nets, Lakers agree on trade (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-williamsrockets121410) Dec 14, 2010




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http://l.yimg.com/a/p/sp/tools/med/2010/12/ipt/1292551042.jpg?&sig=2Ofmv_HMEbSTCl2ufe2SQg-- Kobe Bryant pledged $411,000 to build exhibits within the gym of his old high school, Lower Merion, in suburban Philadelphia.
(NBAE/Getty Images)

“And now, you’ve got kids here in the States, 20 years old, who can’t do those things. Damn, you’ve got max players who can’t do that.”
Bryant laughed, but he was barely kidding. What it reminded him was how fortunate he had been at the most important level of the game – high school basketball – to have had a coach teach him the fundamentals and drill him over and over.
As much as anything, this is the reason Bryant returned to Lower Merion High School in suburban Philadelphia for a ceremony on Thursday night where they named his alma mater’s gym after him. He pledged $411,000 for educational and interactive exhibits within the gymnasium where his old coach, Gregg Downer, still runs the team.
“He was always a sponge,” Downer said by phone this week.
Bryant had so much to learn when he came out of Lower Merion and into the NBA draft in 1996, but he always appreciated the knowledge he brought with him. He’s forever grateful to Downer in that way, loyal to a coach who was willing to immerse himself into a driven young prodigy. There are so many of these coaches in so many cities and small towns, everywhere. Most of them don’t get a once-in-a-lifetime talent like Bryant, the son of an ex-NBA player, to walk into the gym, but they all do the best they can with whatever kids do come along.
“I really had a great high school coach,” Bryant said. “I really had a great high school. I had the will to learn the game, but he had the knowledge to teach me the game. He would get there early to work with me on the basic things: midrange game, footwork.
“But these kids now, the coaches are catering to the star players. They don’t want to tell them when they’re messing up. They don’t want to correct things. They end up skating through things in AAU [Amateur Athletic Union], and go to college and still have all these weaknesses in their game. I don’t like it. I don’t like it.
“I think it’s a system thing we need to address in the United States.”
AAU basketball is still king, and perhaps that’s made it harder for the generation of stars to overtake Bryant. Before Lower Merion High School, Kobe had grown up in Italy and learned his lessons in the European system. Back in the States, Downer elevated everything for Bryant. Now, he doesn’t need to be the most athletic, most explosive player on the planet to be its best. This was true of Michael Jordan in his 30s and still the case for Bryant. What was most vital to Bryant’s game at 16 years old is still most vital now.
“I always talk about having your bread-and-butter play, and for Kobe that was his middle-range game,” Downer said. “Whenever he needed a basket, he would go to the pull-up 15-footer. I think that they shoot the 3-pointer too excessively in AAU, and you don’t always see the great fundamentals. Kobe had a little mustard in his game, but he understood what his bread-and-butter was as a player, and he’s never lost that.”
So, yes, this makes his trip to play the Philadelphia 76ers (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/teams/phi/) on Friday night something unforgettable for Bryant, because he spent Thursday evening back at the old gym for a fundraiser, for the dedication. For all these years, he’s stayed close with Downer and the program, and isn’t averse to getting on the speaker phone and giving the kids a little talk when the coach tells him they need it. For everywhere Kobe Bryant goes now, everything he sees in the game, it always reminds him how fortunate he was back in the beginning, when there was a young coach to feed his appetite for learning, to teach him the important lessons of the game. Maybe it didn’t seem like the biggest deal in the world then, but all these years later, for basketball’s best player, it sure does now.
Adrian Wojnarowski is the NBA columnist for Yahoo! Sports. Follow him on Twitter (http://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA). Send Adrian a question or comment (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/feedback?author=Adrian+Wojnarowski) for potential use in a future column or webcas

[duncan228]

Kobe wears his Lower Merion shorts under his Lakers shorts every game (http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/12/17/kobe-wears-his-lower-merion-shorts-under-his-lakers-shorts-every-game/)
Kurt Helin

Michael Jordan, every time he put on his Chicago Bulls shorts for a game, had a pair of North Carolina shorts on underneath them.

Kobe Bryant, every time he has put on his Los Angeles Lakers shorts, has a pair of his old Lower Merion High School shorts on underneath.

We all learned that later fact last night at the dedication of the new gym at his old school (http://sports.espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/news/story?id=5928731) — which is named after Kobe now (thanks in part to a $411,000 donation).

Kobe has modeled plenty of Jordan habits but this news came as a surprise to media who have been around the Laker locker room for years. And there aren’t that many secrets in that locker room — when Sasha Vujacic gets traded and ex-girlfriends thrash him on twitter, it is something people around the team almost expected.

The shorts thing, did not see that coming.

And as Brian Kamenetzky said at the Land O’ Lakers blog (http://espn.go.com/blog/los-angeles/lakers/), how many of us can still fit into clothes we wore in high school? I’m sure the all-flannel-shirt wardrobe I had back in the day would be a little tight now.

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/12/17/kobe-wears-his-lower-merion-shorts-under-his-lakers-shorts-every-game/

[Venti Quattro]

http://imm.io/media/2C/2C2G.png

[lefty]

http://imm.io/media/2C/2C2G.png
Wut ?

[duncan228]

Kobe Bryant has sprained pinkie, X-rays negative (http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/12/18/kobe-bryant-has-sprained-pinkie-x-rays-negative/)
Matt Moore

This will not affect Kobe Bryant. These injuries just don’t bother him. I don’t know if it’s because he just blocks out the pain or if his body just doesn’t react to damage like a Terminator. But this sprained pinkie for Kobe Bryant? Won’t bother him. Because he’s not human.

But a sprained pinkie it is. From the Orange County Register:


Coach Phil Jackson said Bryant told him: “It’ll be all right.” Postgame X-rays on the finger showed no break.

It’s the same finger in which Bryant tore a ligament and suffered an avulsion fracture (a fragment of bone torn away) in the 2007-08 season, although that injury was to the top knuckle of the finger.

via Finger pain hampers Bryant | finger, bryant, bynum – Sports – The Orange County Register (http://www.ocregister.com/sports/finger-280843-bryant-bynum.html).

It being the same finger is a little disturbing, if only because Bryant’s not shooting quite as well as he has in previous years. He’s struggling in certain situations, but still is Kobe for the most part. His FG% is the lowest it has been since 2004-2005. But his 3-point shooting is up.

Bryant has already said he’ll be playing against Toronto. Seriously, nothing can stop the man.

Except John Connor.

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/12/18/kobe-bryant-has-sprained-pinkie-x-rays-negative/

[Rummpd]

Nice effort with rebounding

[Rummpd]

lets go Spurs

[Venti Quattro]

Kobe moved into the top 10 all-time scoring group tonight.

[ElNono]

He passed Dominique? Congrats

[lefty]

He passed Dominique? Congrats
Ballhogging DOES pay off

[rickross]

Ballhogging DOES pay off

now that kobe is officially retired can we unstick this piece of crap?

[awktalk]

The Lakers are up by 51

[duncan228]

Kobe Bryant on Denver fans booing ‘Melo: “That’s stupid” (http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/01/20/kobe-bryant-on-denver-fans-booing-%e2%80%98melo-%e2%80%9cthat%e2%80%99s-stupid%e2%80%9d/)
Kurt Helin

Carmelo Anthony dropped 35 points on the Oklahoma City Thunder, taking over the fourth quarter, in what was one of the — if not the — best wins of the season for the Nuggets Wednesday. And still fans booed him during the post game, on court interview.

Kobe Bryant doesn’t get that, as he told Chris Tomasson of FanHouse (http://nba.fanhouse.com/2011/01/20/kobe-bryant-its-stupid-that-nuggets-fans-are-booing-carmelo/).


“That’s stupid,” star guard Kobe Bryant said in speaking with FanHouse and the Denver Post after the Lakers practiced Thursday at the Pepsi Center in preparation for Friday’s game against Denver. “That’s not very smart…”

“Put yourself in his shoes,” Bryant said. “If you’re teeter-tottering about going somewhere, he’d be more inclined to go to another place where they’re going to cheer you rather than boo you.”

It’s impossible to rule out Anthony signing an extension and staying in Denver, because in this fluid situation it’s impossible to rule anything out. The Nuggets could be stuck without a trade partner and Anthony could decide that the money potentially lost in a new Collective Bargaining Agreement outweighs his desire to go to New York.

But the waters in Denver seem poisoned. Whenever Anthony has been asked if re-signing with Denver was a possibility, he said yes — until last night. Last night he dodged the question (from Tomasson). Twice.

Who knows if the boos impacted that or not. Can’t believe it helps, though.

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/01/20/kobe-bryant-on-denver-fans-booing-%e2%80%98melo-%e2%80%9cthat%e2%80%99s-stupid%e2%80%9d/

[duncan228]

Bryant to get cement prints at Hollywood landmark (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=ap-bryant-chinesetheater)

Los Angeles Lakers star Kobe Bryant has championship rings and an MVP trophy, but he’s about to get an honor usually reserved for the stars of Hollywood.

Bryant will become the first athlete to have a hand and foot print ceremony at Grauman’s Chinese Theater in Hollywood.

Representatives for the theater announced Thursday that Bryant will have the ceremony setting his hands and feet in cement as part of the NBA’s All-Star Weekend festivities on Feb. 19, the day before the All-Star game at Staples Center in Los Angeles.

More than 200 Hollywood luminaries including John Wayne, Marilyn Monroe and Brad Pitt have had their hands and feet set in cement in front of the Hollywood landmark.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=ap-bryant-chinesetheater

[Venti Quattro]

Wow, time flies. It's been 5 years since 81

Kobe Bryant talks about 81 game (http://sports.espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/news/story?id=6046190)

DENVER -- Saturday will mark the five-year anniversary of the night Lakers guard Kobe Bryant scored 81 points in Los Angeles against the Toronto Raptors, the second-highest single game point total in NBA history.

"I just remember we were down 16 points to a bad Raptors team and we had just lost I think to Houston the game before and it was just kind of doom and gloom. We needed to win and I just got hot," Bryant said Friday after shootaround in preparation for the Lakers' game against the Denver Nuggets.

The Lakers ending up winning the game 122-104 against a Toronto team that had a record of just 14-26. Los Angeles actually trailed the Raptors by 18 points early on in the third quarter before Bryant really went off, scoring 51 of his 55 second-half points from that point on. Bryant scored 14 points in the first quarter, 12 in the second, 27 in the third and 28 in the fourth.

"That game we needed to win," Bryant said, remembering the Lakers record was a mediocre 21-19 coming into the game. "We kind of broke away towards the end there, but it was a tough one for us."

Bryant's 81-point game trails on Wilt Chamberlain's 100-point game on March 2, 1962 for the highest single-game scoring output in league history.

Bryant's feat came during the 2005-06 season when he averaged 35.4 points per game, the highest single-season average since Michael Jordan put up 37.1 points per game in 1986-87 with the Chicago Bulls.

Bryant tallied 21 games with 40-49 points, four games with 50-59 points and two games scoring more than 60 that season.

"Phil [Jackson] had asked me that year, I had a couple games where I was hot and the one against Dallas, he asked me if I wanted to stay in," Bryant said.

The game against the Mavericks was on Dec. 20, 2005, about a month before Bryant's historic night against the Raptors. He outscored the Mavericks single-handedly 62-61 after three quarters and Bryant and Jackson agreed it was appropriate to sit him out for the fourth quarter with the Lakers leading by 34 points.

"Phil's been really cool about stuff like that," Bryant said.

Bryant has continued to be a top scorer in the league in the five years since the historic night. He is 52 points away from passing Hakeem Olajuwon (26,946) for eighth on the NBA's all-time scoring list.

Bryant has maintained that the only number he is focused on, however, is adding to the five championship rings in his collection.

"I really don't think about it too much," Bryant said. "I still don't know how the hell it happened, to be honest with you. It's just one of those things, I guess."

Still, Bryant shared some sentimentality regarding his scoring feat on the eve of the five-year anniversary.

"That was the first game and only game [my grandmother has] ever been to in the NBA and it was my grandfather's birthday that had passed away," Bryant said. "So, there were a lot of things at work."

Bryant added how honored he was when the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame requested the sneakers he wore that game to put on display and revealed he has the jersey he wore against the Raptors on display in the trophy room at his house.

[ALVAREZ6]

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[ALVAREZ6]

m
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[ALVAREZ6]

lolz BUMP lolz lolz

[Zelophehad]

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[pauls931]

So a guy at work joked that someone should have the email address [email protected].

So randomly today I figured I'd enter www.hotmale.com into my browser, yup, not good..

[DMC]

So a guy at work joked that someone should have the email address [email protected].

So randomly today I figured I'd enter www.hotmale.com (http://www.hotmale.com) into my browser, yup, not good..
You mean you clicked on "favorites" and selected the top most site? Hey how did that get there?

[jestersmash]

So a guy at work joked that someone should have the email address [email protected].

So randomly today I figured I'd enter www.hotmale.com into my browser, yup, not good..

5th grade - I'm in "computer lab" for a social studies class.

The computer lab is a pretty large room - 30 computers or so (one for each student), and one "master computer" that displays everything on the projection screen at the front of class.

We're supposed to be researching about the French Revolution. I'm on the "master computer."

My friend tells me to go to an awesome research site he's just found, frenchrevolution . com

I get fucking inundated with porn pop-ups with pictures of big breasted nude french women, all of which is being displayed on the master screen. Surprisingly enough, nobody saw it, not even the teacher. Everybody fortunately had their back turned.

[Venti Quattro]

Bryant: Not much at stake historically other than MJ's six rings, Kareem's scoring record, Magic's "Greatest Laker Ever" title and Jordan's undisputed title as the GOAT. You know, just the usual stuff. Even with some subtle signs of slippage -- specifically, his 3-point accuracy and his willingness/ability to get to the line, both reflections of an ailing right knee -- when I caught him in person on Tuesday night (the Utah blowout), it looked like the same Old New Kobe to me: he scored 21 points in 26 minutes, controlled the game and even shifted into Eff You Mode once (when Raja Bell angered him in the third quarter, prompting Kobe to demand the ball and then shoot a gorgeous 12-foot turnaround in his mug).He's gone from being a breakaway running back to being one of those guys who grinds out 4.4 yards a carry. Keep the chains moving. That's all he does now. It's like he calculated exactly how many jumps his knees had left, put his last 435 or so quality bursts in reserve like Vin Diesel's nitrous canister in a "Fast and Furious" movie, then vowed never to break one out unless he absolutely needed it. On a breakaway in the third quarter on Tuesday, with fans screaming for a dunk, Kobe jumped off two feet and gingerly shoved the ball through the rim. Sorry, everybody. You can't waste that nitrous canister switch in a blowout.
Maybe he'll never soar through the air like he once did, and maybe he no longer has the luxury of saying, "We need a basket -- I think I'll just beat my guy off the dribble, get into the paint and beat their big guys to the rim" like you or I would decide to go grocery shopping. But Kobe's arsenal of Jedi Mind Trick upfakes, stutter-steps, spin moves and start-and-stops rivals everything Jordan had. He brings it every quarter and every play, much like Jordan did, which is the highest compliment you can give somebody. And he knows Gasol, Fisher, Odom and Bynum so well by now that, as crazy as it sounds, Kobe's chemistry with his teammates might be his single best asset.
You could say he's delivering nearly the same production as before, just in a slightly different way: a less dominant version of Jordan's final Chicago season. For All-Star Weekend next month, NBA.com is creating highlight reels from every Kobe season since 1997; these sneak peeks from 1998 (his second season, when he had Griffin-like ups) (http://www.nba.com/video/channels/top_plays/2011/01/27/20110128_kobe_top10_1998.nba) and 2005 (his athletic prime) (http://www.nba.com/video/channels/top_plays/2011/01/27/20110128_kobe_top10_2005.nba) illustrate how much his game has changed over the years. Kobe 1.0 relied on phenomenal athletic ability alone. Kobe 2.0 blended that athletic ability with a scorer's mentality. Kobe 3.0 was basically Kobe 2.0 with better teammates and a better attitude. Now we're watching Kobe 4.0, someone who should be slipping ... only he wouldn't let it happen.
Of course, if you believe what Kobe told Peter Vecsey last week in a rare interview, his body is starting to break down. Kobe admitted that he didn't practice for the first two months of the season and "has very little cartilage under his right kneecap, it's basically bone on bone." Hmmmmmm. Could there be some gamesmanship there? Why would Kobe -- the guy who kept everything under wraps for so many years, the guy who tried to pretend last spring that beating Boston didn't matter because he didn't want to show any signs of weakness -- suddenly be admitting his mortality and pulling the Fred Sanford Memorial "Look Out Elizabeth, I'm Coming To Join You!" routine?
Whatever his shelf life looks like, one thing's for sure: We've never seen anyone do this before. No perimeter player has ever made first- or second-team All-NBA after passing the 1,200-game mark; Kobe will almost definitely do it this year. He's going to hit 27,000 points next week in a season in which he passed Oscar, 'Nique, Ice, Hondo and (this weekend) Hakeem on the list. And he's fighting off The Change like nobody since Karl Malone.
Full confession: I never liked Kobe. (Crap, you knew that. I forgot.) But it's tough watching any great player go through The Change. Especially in basketball, the most naked of our professional sports: Just 10 players wearing sleeveless jerseys and shorts, with fans sitting as close as three feet away and devouring every expression, every nuance, every move, everything. When a baseball player slips, we give him the benefit of the doubt: Maybe it's a slump, maybe it's his catcher, maybe his arm is bothering him, maybe he's playing in the wrong ballpark ... you could never definitively say, "Write that guy off." Same for a football player: Maybe his quarterback sucks, maybe his hammy is bothering him, maybe it's the offense, maybe it's the system, maybe it's his offensive line, maybe it's his coach. We realize after the fact football players are washed up, or right at the very end. In basketball, you know right away.
I thought that day was coming for Kobe Bryant. He had other ideas. So did Nash, Pierce, Nowitzki and Allen. Everything we ever thought we knew about basketball is being rewritten. Twelve-year primes are going to stretch to 15. Fifteen-year careers are going to stretch past 20. The 20,000 Point Club will become the 30,000 Point Club. It's not just that records will be made and stretched, or that we'll be seeing things we've never seen before. For the first time, basketball records might actually start mattering beyond "100 points," "72 wins," "33 straight," "11 rings" and "However Many Points Kareem Ended Up With."
And if you want to think about something truly frightening, consider the following four things ...
1. LeBron James passed 16,000 points a few weeks ago. It took him fewer than 600 games.
2. Barring injury and a prolonged lockout, by the end of his 10th season (2012-13), LeBron should be sitting at 22,000 points.
3. If LeBron plays the next seven and a half seasons 85 percent as well as he played the previous seven and a half seasons, he'll be sitting at 30,000 points, 7,500 assists and 7,500 rebounds ... and he'll be 33 years old. A few months older than Kobe right now.
4. Like it or not, we are all going to be witnesses.

[Rummpd]

That missed layup of Manu led to 4 straight Portland points!

[Rummpd]

But of course Manu with a tre!

[Rummpd]

I predicted a tough game but time to get this one Spurs - Spurs real close several times to extending a lead so get one now and extend it!

[Rummpd]

oops wrong thread but Kobe is Mr Assist man tonight!

[awktalk]

Top four Lakers reactions to the McDyess tip caught on video (http://projectspurs.com/2011-articles/february/top-four-lakers-reactions-to-the-mcdyess-tip-in.html)
Written by Jeff Garcia | 05 February 2011

All eyes were on San Antonio Spurs' Antonio McDyess after he made the game winning tip-in for the Spurs against the Los Angeles Lakers this past Thursday.

Spurs fans were cheering across the globe as they saw McDyess' teammates rush to mob him on the court and witnessed Spurs' coach Gregg Popovich crack an elusive smile.

However, if you rewind the video of McDyess' tip-in, a lot happened in 4.6 seconds for Spurs fans to savor. More directly, Spurs fans can savor Lakers' heartache as the McDyess tip fell through the net.

With that being said, follow along with the video below to see the top four Lakers' reactions to the McDyess tip-in.
CHNsH8EdOr0
4. Lakers' assistant coach Chuck Person raises then lowers his arms. At the 13 second point of the video, watch the Lakers' sideline as former Spurs' player, now Lakers' assistant coach, Chuck Person raises his arms in triumph after Tim Duncan misses the shot but suddenly lowers his arms when the tip-in goes through.

Hit the jump to see who made the top three spots.

3. Gasol leans on the bench at the 1:05 second point of the video above.

2. Lakers fan crumbles to his knees. At the 58 second point of the video, keep your eyes to the left of the screen and on the fan in the white Lakers jersey. Watch as he falls to his knees when he sees the ball fall through the basket.

1. Kobe pouts. Right when McDyess' tip-in goes through, keep your eye on Kobe Bryant at the 15 second and the 1:01 point of the above video. Watch as he pouts by throwing his arms down and walks off in disgust. In a word: priceless!

[awktalk]

Bryant up against Nadal, Messi and Iniesta for Laureus (http://gulfnews.com/sport/other-sports/bryant-up-against-nadal-messi-and-iniesta-for-laureus-1.757475)

Awards to be announced in Abu Dhabi tomorrow

* By Alaric Gomes, Senior Reporter
* Published: 00:00 February 6, 2011

Dubai: American basketball star Kobe Bryant will be up against the best of Europe in the form of Andres Iniesta, Lionel Messi, Rafael Nadal and Sebastian Vettel and Asian boxing sensation Manny Pacquiao when the Laureus World Sportsman of the Year is announced in Abu Dhabi tomorrow evening.

Running for glory in the womens' category are Americans Serena Williams and skiing champion Lindsey Vonn against the likes of Europe's best that includes Kim Clijsters, Caroline Wozniacki, Jessica Ennis (UK, athletics) and Blanka Vlasic (Croatia, athletics).

The Laureus World Sports Awards honours the greatest sportsmen and women across all sports each year with the winners selected by the sports jury consisting of 46 members of the Laureus World Sports Academy. The proceeds from the Laureus World Sports Awards directly benefit the work of the Laureus Sport for Good Foundation which supports 83 community sports projects around the globe.

There is a two-part voting process to find the winners of the Laureus World Sports Awards.

Categories

At first, a Selection Panel of the world's leading sports editors, writers and broadcasters vote to create a short-list of six nominations in five categories: Laureus World Sportsman of the Year, Laureus World Sportswoman of the Year, Laureus World Team of the Year, Laureus World Breakthrough of the Year and Laureus World Comeback of the Year.

The nominations for two additional categories, namely the Laureus World Action Sportsperson of the Year and the Laureus World Sportsperson of the Year with a Disability are produced by Specialist Panels.

The members of the Laureus World Sports Academy then vote by secret ballot to select the award winners in all seven categories.

With Nelson Mandela as its patron, Laureus was founded by its Richemont and Daimler and is supported by global partners Mercedes-Benz, IWC Schaffhausen and Vodafone.

[Pelicans78]

Even if Kobe won his 6th ring, he still wouldn't be considered the GOAT. Maybe he would surpass Magic, but still be slightlly behind Jordan.

[Venti Quattro]

Even if Kobe won his 6th ring, he still wouldn't be considered the GOAT. Maybe he would surpass Magic, but still be slightlly behind Jordan.

I think that's well established. I just hope analysts will be consistent and won't go oh lebron is better than fucking jordan when he's around the 6-ring range

[jjktkk]

I think that's well established. I just hope analysts will be consistent and won't go oh lebron is better than fucking jordan when he's around the 6-ring range

Lebron will never be in the 6th ring conversation. Maybe 3 tops imo.

[cobbler]

Even if Kobe won his 6th ring, he still wouldn't be considered the GOAT. Maybe he would surpass Magic, but still be slightlly behind Jordan.

uhhh ok... does the thought of that happening really bother you that much? GOAT is an opinion. It bothers you that much that some would consider Kobe the GOAT that you have to argue it months or years before it even happens? Wow.

[ChrisRichards]

uhhh ok... does the thought of that happening really bother you that much? GOAT is an opinion. It bothers you that much that some would consider Kobe the GOAT that you have to argue it months or years before it even happens? Wow.


#1. Kobe is not, will never and was not considered GOAT by anyone or anything with a living cell.

#2. LOL Cobbler

#3. GOATS dont shoot 6/24 in Game 7's.

#4. GOATS dont play sidekick for three straight years

#5. GOATS does not have a 45% career FG shooting

#6. Yes I'm a welcher and Yes you're a gimp.

#7. GOATS does not need Superstar Big Men to bail him out in the Finals

#8. :rolleyes

[cobbler]

#1. Kobe is not, will never and was not considered GOAT by anyone or anything with a living cell.

#2. LOL Cobbler

#3. GOATS dont shoot 6/24 in Game 7's.

#4. GOATS dont play sidekick for three straight years

#5. GOATS does not have a 45% career FG shooting

#6. Yes I'm a welcher and Yes you're a gimp.

#7. GOATS does not need Superstar Big Men to bail him out in the Finals

#8. :rolleyes


As I have gone on record many times with my opinion that neither Jordan or Kobe are the GOAT your retort falls on deaf ears. In fact I don't have Jordan or Kobe in the top 3. You replied to a post where i asked if it bothered the guy that much that people would have opinions that Kobe is the GOAT. Cause when he passes Jordan in rings, many will. That it bugs the shit out of the likes of you .... is priceless!

Your reading comprehension is about at the same level as your character and integrity. What a loser.

[duncan228]

Kobe full of fuel for title drive (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-kobelakers021011)
By Adrian Wojnarowski

As the volume rises on the criticism of Kobe Bryant, the chorus causes him to feel far more invigorated than invalidated. The call to deconstruct a championship legacy is a right of passage for a generational talent. The debate rages over his reputation as a clutch performer, over his propriety in five Los Angeles Lakers championships.

Pay no mind when he tells you he never listens to it because he’s too much within the hysteria that surrounds him. Rest assured, he ingests it.

“People kind of get bored with things that I’ve done, so they try to find new ones to talk about or try to find numbers to justify certain things,” Bryant told Yahoo! Sports on Wednesday. “That’s what happens when you win. I remember Magic and Michael [Jordan] going through similar things. Hey, the talk before was that I couldn’t do it without Shaq. Well I did that. And then I did it again. Now it’s something else. They’re always going to come for something else.

“But I win. We win.”

After the Los Angeles Lakers practiced on Wednesday, Bryant wore a black ski cap, ankle tape and a bemused grin in the bleachers of Emerson College. Here, he spit out his metaphors through the stark prism with which he sees the game. Bryant still believes this season will come down to big shots because it always does. He still believes that ball belongs in his hands because those moments have always belonged to him.

“If somebody had their life on the line, and they’ve got their options on who they want to save their life – tell me who you’re going to pick?” Bryant asked. “You’re going to look at the stats first?”

Keep Reading... (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-kobelakers021011)

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-kobelakers021011

[jmill]

#1. Kobe is not, will never and was not considered GOAT by anyone or anything with a living cell.

#2. LOL Cobbler

#3. GOATS dont shoot 6/24 in Game 7's.

#4. GOATS dont play sidekick for three straight years

#5. GOATS does not have a 45% career FG shooting

#6. Yes I'm a welcher and Yes you're a gimp.

#7. GOATS does not need Superstar Big Men to bail him out in the Finals

#8. :rolleyes

Actually the GOAT absolutely could be someone who's a 45% FG shooter for his career. Kobe's not the GOAT though. But he is really good at basketball.

[duncan228]

Legendary Los Angeles Lakers shooting guard Kobe Bryant attends his hand and footprint ceremony at the Graumans Chinese Theater in Hollywood, California on February 19, 2011. Bryant become the first athlete to have his hands and feet imprinted at the legendary Graumans Chinese Theater. He joins over 200 stars including Marilyn Monroe, Brad Pitt, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Will Smith, Harrison Ford or John Wayne who have had their hand and footprint ceremonies.

http://d.yimg.com/a/p/sp/getty/82/fullj.db2cd8238d46a6c9019974a423e2e150/db2cd8238d46a6c9019974a423e2e150-getty-us-basketball-hollywood-bryant.jpg

[Venti Quattro]

http://d.yimg.com/a/p/sp/getty/a0/fullj.e2bb5c476218e18f92aa46e1b0ad923a/e2bb5c476218e18f92aa46e1b0ad923a-getty-us-basketball-hollywood-bryant.jpg

[lefty]

http://d.yimg.com/a/p/sp/getty/a0/fullj.e2bb5c476218e18f92aa46e1b0ad923a/e2bb5c476218e18f92aa46e1b0ad923a-getty-us-basketball-hollywood-bryant.jpg





And ?

[Hooks]

LOL Kobe trying his ass off in a meaningless game, if he can't get the MVP during the reg. season he might as well try to get it in the All star game.

[dbreiden83080]

I think Kobe was actually getting sexually excited as Stern was announcing his stats.. Thank god his sole reason for playing in the game was a success. He won a giant plastic troghy..

[vato loco]

LOL Kobe trying his ass off in a meaningless game, if he can't get the MVP during the reg. season he might as well try to get it in the All star game.

http://thebasketballoracle.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/kobe-bryant-finals-mvp-holds-the-larry-obrien-trophy-as-well-as-the-finals-mvp-award.jpg

[Rummpd]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/per_career.html

All this insane love for the player with (currently) ONLY the 17th best PER of all time?

[cobbler]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/per_career.html

All this insane love for the player with (currently) ONLY the 17th best PER of all time?

There is a lot more to the game than PER. Even your godsend PER creator has acknowledged that.

Can I now hear your argument for DRob being the 4th greatest player of all time? :wow

[Rummpd]

Starting a team I would take Duncan or Robinson anytime in their prime over Kobe - perimeter players a dime a dozen and Duncan and Robinson never failed to lead teams to playoffs when healthy unlike the vastly over-rated Bryant, who until gifted Gasol - Bynum and Odom was a lost cause as a leader.

[Rummpd]

Seriously how anyone can ever root or have passion for Kobe is beyond me - a great, great basketball player but conceited, disloyal etc.

[Rummpd]

There is a lot more to the game than PER. Even your godsend PER creator has acknowledged that.

Can I now hear your argument for DRob being the 4th greatest player of all time? :wow

Well Jordan being number one kind of limits that arguement somewhat and Robinson in his prime is arguebly the most under-rated great NBA player of all time (there was a reason he started on one of the dream teams over Shaq and Ewing)- wake me also when Kobe ever has a quadruple double and for all of Kobe's athletic skill it palls bigtime to that of Robinson, and Robinson is easily the greater man and person and not far behind Kobe as a basketball player either.

[cobbler]

Well Jordan being number one kind of limits that arguement somewhat and Robinson in his prime is arguebly the most under-rated great NBA player of all time (there was a reason he started on one of the dream teams over Shaq and Ewing)- wake me also when Kobe ever has a quadruple double and for all of Kobe's athletic skill it palls bigtime to that of Robinson, and Robinson is easily the greater man and person and not far behind Kobe as a basketball player either.

Ohhhh I'm sorry. I didn't realize that PER took off the court antics and personality into consideration.

I would never debate that Kobe is a better person than DRob... that's absurd. I have gone on record many times with my distaste for some of Kobe's actions.

So back to your PER comments. So you agree that DRob is the 4th best player of all time? Its a yes or no question.

And why does Jordan having the highest PER limit any argument?

[cobbler]

Seriously how anyone can ever root or have passion for Kobe is beyond me - a great, great basketball player but conceited, disloyal etc.

Im a Laker fan. He's a Laker. He's been a key figure in 5 titles for us. We are not rooting for the person but the team.

Are you saying when your boy Neal shoots you root against him? When TP plays great you dont root or have a passion for his play?

[Mike D]

Jeanie Buss tweet this morning: "Came 2 office w/Phil @ 9:45 am Practice @ 11 only 1 other car here. Phil says "Kobe's here before me" & then smiles."

Like him or not, the SOB works hard.

[lefty]

Like him or not, the SOB works hard.

As much as I dislike Kobe, that's the one thing I can't take away from him.

Dude has the drive

[Daddy_Of_All_Trolls]

I'll make a topic out of this if no one replies. I had to do that last time I contributed something worthwhile to this thread....Or maybe a Lakers fan will run with a new topic about it.

Anyway, we have all seen stats about Kobe not being clutch in the last 24 seconds. One can create desired statistics easily enough. Look what happened when 24 seconds was changed to 10 seconds. I found this surfing Lakers sites:

http://thelakersnation.com/forums/topic/48158-last-10-seconds-lebron-vs-kobe/

I'm sure you guys have seen the stat of this year's Miami Heat: In the last 10 seconds of the 4th or overtime, with the Heat tied or down 1-3pts (one FG), the Heat are shooting 1-18 this season...

We've seen some numbers and blah blah come out showing how Kobe isn't that clutch, or whatever with clutch being defined in various ways (last 5 minutes, last 2 minutes, each team up or down 5... etc).

I like the 10 second clutch stat (FGM-FGA in the last 10 seconds of the 4th or OT, with the player's team tied or down 1-3) as a different look on things than we've had in the past because:
A. That means it's basically last second shot time
B. It's when your team is tied or down one shot.. which is much different and feels different than you getting a FGA with your team up 3. In this definition, if you miss, you lose or go into OT for sure basically.

I took it upon myself to go through ESPN play-by-plays of Lebron and Kobe (for obvious reasons) to see what the stats show under this definition of clutch. Since I started doing this at 4am, I only got a few seasons done, but I'll post anyways and hope to continue my research tomorrow.

So here you have it, Lebron and Kobe's "Last 10sec" Clutch stats for 08-09 (Lebron's first MVP) til present.

Lebron James
08-09: 1-4 (25%)
09-10: 1-8 (12.5%)
10-11: 1-8 (12.5%)
Total (through last 3 seasons): 3-20 (15%)

Kobe Bryant
08-09: 2-6 (33.3%)
09-10: 7-11 (63.6%)
10-11: 1-3 (33.3%)
Total (through last 3 seasons): 10-20 (50%)

Funny enough, they have the same exact amount of attempts. Not the same amount of makes though.


He promsies an update for earlier seasons, we'll see later.

[Jt.ONE]

nice find and post DoAT

[mystargtr34]

I'll make a topic out of this if no one replies. I had to do that last time I contributed something worthwhile to this thread....Or maybe a Lakers fan will run with a new topic about it.

Anyway, we have all seen stats about Kobe not being clutch in the last 24 seconds. One can create desired statistics easily enough. Look what happened when 24 seconds was changed to 10 seconds. I found this surfing Lakers sites:

http://thelakersnation.com/forums/topic/48158-last-10-seconds-lebron-vs-kobe/

I'm sure you guys have seen the stat of this year's Miami Heat: In the last 10 seconds of the 4th or overtime, with the Heat tied or down 1-3pts (one FG), the Heat are shooting 1-18 this season...

We've seen some numbers and blah blah come out showing how Kobe isn't that clutch, or whatever with clutch being defined in various ways (last 5 minutes, last 2 minutes, each team up or down 5... etc).

I like the 10 second clutch stat (FGM-FGA in the last 10 seconds of the 4th or OT, with the player's team tied or down 1-3) as a different look on things than we've had in the past because:
A. That means it's basically last second shot time
B. It's when your team is tied or down one shot.. which is much different and feels different than you getting a FGA with your team up 3. In this definition, if you miss, you lose or go into OT for sure basically.

I took it upon myself to go through ESPN play-by-plays of Lebron and Kobe (for obvious reasons) to see what the stats show under this definition of clutch. Since I started doing this at 4am, I only got a few seasons done, but I'll post anyways and hope to continue my research tomorrow.

So here you have it, Lebron and Kobe's "Last 10sec" Clutch stats for 08-09 (Lebron's first MVP) til present.

Lebron James
08-09: 1-4 (25%)
09-10: 1-8 (12.5%)
10-11: 1-8 (12.5%)
Total (through last 3 seasons): 3-20 (15%)

Kobe Bryant
08-09: 2-6 (33.3%)
09-10: 7-11 (63.6%)
10-11: 1-3 (33.3%)
Total (through last 3 seasons): 10-20 (50%)

Funny enough, they have the same exact amount of attempts. Not the same amount of makes though.


He promsies an update for earlier seasons, we'll see later.

Where is Killakobe and Mike D to tell us how these stats are over rated and mean nothing :lol.

Seriously though, these stats are an accurate representation. I would expect Kobe to be at the top of the league in FG makes in the last 10 seconds since he is probably the best difficult shot maker in NBA history... although the accurate FG% does surprise me a little bit. To me there is no doubt that Kobe is one of the best in these situations and it doesnt surprise me that he is > LeBron with under 10 seconds to go.

[duncan228]

NBA At 2: Is Kobe Overrated? (http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?STORY_ID=19225)
By: Bill Ingram
Hoopsworld

Every once in a while it seems the world of die-hard NBA fans finds a dividing line and a chasm is created somewhere down the middle. In today's example, the chasm lies between Camp Kobe and Camp LeBron. When asked who the best player in the modern NBA is, rational or not, these are the top two answers, and the campers on either side of the debate are particularly passionate about not only how right they are, but also how wrong anyone who believes otherwise is. Some would even suggest that Kobe is overrated. But is he?

First, let's set some expectations. Before someone can be overrated we have to talk about what the rating is to begin with. There are a number of facts that have to be considered. First, Kobe has five championship rings, more than any current NBA player and only one less than Michael Jordan, arguably the best player of all time. Sure, Bill Russell might object to that classification, but Russell played in an NBA so different from today's that we might as well be comparing Jordan to Pele or Earl Campbell.

So Kobe has five championship rings. He also scored 82 points in a game once, but one game does not a Hall-Of-Famer make. Kobe is a loyal Laker, which has to count for something in an age where loyalty is all but dead. Rather than bolt when Shaquille O'Neal was traded, he took a stronger and more overt interest in the well-being of the team. He pressured GM Mitch Kupchak to land another big fish when the team took a temporary downturn, and as a result Pau Gasol landed in purple and gold. Kobe then rode Gasol every day until Gasol first exploded and then raised his own level of intensity to rival Kobe's, resulting in two championships and counting.

So Kobe has five championship rings, team loyalty, he takes a personal interest of the development of the players around him and makes them better, and he's also an Olympic gold medalist, by the way. He's been the NBA Finals MVP twice, regular season MVP once, he's a 13-time All-Star, eight-time All-NBA First Team, two-time All-NBA Second Team, two-time All-NBA Third Team, two-time All-Defensive Second Team, four-time All-Star MVP and even won the 1997 slam dunk competition. Sound like anyone else we know? Someone who played basketball like a Bull in a china shop?

How do we rate a player like that? We're talking about one of the top five players of all time, perhaps even top three. We're also talking about a first ballot Hall-Of-Famer even if he never wins another title, and Kobe is far from finished. We're also talking about, in this reporter's opinion, the best player in the modern NBA.

Keep in mind, that when we talk about the best player, we have to talk about championships. Greatness in professional sports is always defined by championships. It's not the only defining characteristic, but it's a significant part of the discussion.

Who, then, is in Kobe's class in the modern NBA? Tim Duncan, arguably the best power forward of all time, who has four championship rings? Shaquille O'Neal, perhaps, though his career dissipation light is blinking red . . .and that's the end of the discussion. Not LeBron James, the most celebrated yet undecorated player in the NBA. Not Dirk Nowitzki, the best international player to ever grace the NBA hardwoods. No one.

In order for Kobe Bryant to be overrated someone has to be giving a label or distinction which he hasn't earned. If we're calling him God, he's overrated. If we're calling him the next Michael Jordan, he's overrated. But calling him the best player in the modern NBA is hard to dispute. The price of admission to the discussion is five championship rings in which the player in question was a primary force behind the title (which excludes only Robert Horry).

Kobe Bryant is the modern gold standard.

http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?STORY_ID=19225

[Daddy_Of_All_Trolls]

http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?STORY_ID=19225
I find it interesting that this writer doesn't diminish any of Kobe's rings as a sidekick, which is how it should be. Fans on message boards think otherwise. Rings are a team accomplishment. Every multiple ring superstar had help, Russell, Jordan, Kareem, Magic, Shaq, Kobe, Duncan, and Bird. Multiple ring scrubs like Robert Horry and many of Russell's cohorts were basically along for the ride. When Jordan was beasting in the 80's, the media was calling for him to get some teammates so he could go deeper in the playoffs, which he finally did.

Is Kobe the best player today? That of course is debatable. However, if Kobe keeps ringing, the future will end up raising his stock, that's my best guess. It happened to Russell already, he's overrated. It will happen to Kobe as well.

[Venti Quattro]

Off-topic but relevant: NBA Feature on Brian Shaw (http://www.nba.com/video/channels/nba_tv/2011/03/21/true_nba102_shaw_feature_mix.nba/?ls=iref:nbahpt1)

[SourCandy]

http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?STORY_ID=19225

media loves kobe :)

[jmill]

Wow, Rummpd's posts ITT are absolutely brutal. And that's coming from someone who would take prime Duncan over prime Kobe, thinks Popovich is the best coach in the league, and has a man crush on David Robinson.

But goddamn, your posts about Kobe are bad.

[Jelloisjigglin]

Kobe Bryant Named NBA Western Conference Player of the Week

MAGIC'S HOWARD AND LAKERS' BRYANT NAMED NBA EASTERN AND WESTERN CONFERENCE PLAYERS OF THE WEEK

http://www.nba.com/lakers/photos/110328kobebryant.jpgNEW YORK, March 28, 2011 – The Orlando Magic's Dwight Howard and Los Angeles Lakers' Kobe Bryant today were named the Eastern and Western Conference Players of the Week, respectively, for games played Monday, March 21, through Sunday, March 27.

Howard led the Magic to a 3-0 week, ranking first in the NBA in rebounds (14.3 rpg) and field goal percentage (.711). He has led the team in scoring 50 times and in rebounding 65 times this season. Howard extended his franchise record double-double streak to 30 games with his 21-point, 14-rebound performance against New Jersey. He now has 60 double-doubles on the season, which ranks second in the NBA. This is Howard's sixth Player of the Week award this season.

Bryant paced the league in scoring, averaging 36.3 points, in leading the Lakers to a 3-0 week. In the process, Los Angeles extended its winning streak to seven games. On March 22, Bryant scored a season-high 42 points to go along with 12 rebounds and nine assists in a triple overtime victory over the Suns. It was the 107th 40-point game of his career.

Here is a recap of the week for Howard and Bryant:
Dwight Howard, Orlando Magic
March 21 @ Cleveland: Scored 28 points to go along with 18 rebounds, four blocks, four steals and four steals in a 97-86 win over the Cavaliers
March 23 @ New York: Recorded 33 points, 11 rebounds and three blocks in a 111-99 win over the Knicks.
March 25 vs. New Jersey: Posted 21 points, 14 rebounds, three blocks and two steals in a 99-85 win over the Nets.

Kobe Bryant, Los Angeles Lakers
March 22 vs. Phoenix: Tallied 42 points to go along with 12 rebounds and nine assists in a 139-137 win over the Suns
March 25 vs. L.A. Clippers: Scored 37 points to go along with six assists and four rebounds in a 112-104 win over the Clippers.
March 27 @ New Orleans: Recorded 30 points, five assists, three rebounds and two steals in a 102-84 victory over the Hornets.
Other nominees for the Eastern and Western Conference Players of the Week were Memphis' Tony Allen and Zach Randolph, Miami's Chris Bosh, LeBron James and Dwyane Wade, Oklahoma City's Russell Westbrook and Sacramento's Marcus Thornton.




http://www.nba.com/lakers/news/110328kobebryantpow.html

[lefty]

Off-topic but relevant: NBA Feature on Brian Shaw (http://www.nba.com/video/channels/nba_tv/2011/03/21/true_nba102_shaw_feature_mix.nba/?ls=iref:nbahpt1)

http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/3084/banks.jpghttp://caldous1984.tripod.com/TV/vivian1-5.jpg

[Venti Quattro]

The longest-tenured Laker (http://blog.lakers.com/lakers/2011/03/28/kobe-bryant-the-longest-tenured-laker/).

[Ashy Larry]

http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/3084/banks.jpghttp://caldous1984.tripod.com/TV/vivian1-5.jpg



this was very touching .... i remember when this shit happened and can't believe so much time has flown by .... just a tragic story.

[ImDaNuts]

jordan w/o pippen: .430 win %, 0 playoff series victories; 1-9 playoff record; 0 mvp; 0 championships; 0 all defensive teams

kobe w/o shaq: .620 win%; 3 finals; 2 championships; 5 time all defense; 81pt game

and whatever number mvps for kobe

[Sean Cagney]

jordan w/o pippen: .430 win %, 0 playoff series victories; 1-9 playoff record; 0 mvp; 0 championships; 0 all defensive teams

kobe w/o shaq: .620 win%; 3 finals; 2 championships; 5 time all defense; 81pt game

and whatever number mvps for kobe

He is not better than MJ jus stop it! STOP IT!

[Jodelo]

jordan w/o pippen: .430 win %, 0 playoff series victories; 1-9 playoff record; 0 mvp; 0 championships; 0 all defensive teams

kobe w/o shaq: .620 win%; 3 finals; 2 championships; 5 time all defense; 81pt game

and whatever number mvps for kobe

What are the numbers without Gasol?

[cobbler]

What are the numbers without Gasol?

Would that be the Gasol that had 0 playoff victories prior to joining the Lakers. ZERO for life. Certainly a Mavs fan would know what thats like.

[Jodelo]

Would that be the Gasol that had 0 playoff victories prior to joining the Lakers. ZERO for life. Certainly a Mavs fan would know what thats like.

Yeah zero... :rolleyes:rolleyes

So how many of those 3 finals Kobe did without Gasol? Right, ZERO!

[cobbler]

Yeah zero... :rolleyes:rolleyes

So how many of those 3 finals Kobe did without Gasol? Right, ZERO!

No doubt! Have yet to see a player win one alone.

[LkrFan]

No doubt! Have yet to see a player win one alone.

:lol

[Jelloisjigglin]

No doubt! Have yet to see a player win one alone.

Lame ass Kobe needed another all star player to win a title. What a loser.

[cobbler]

Lame ass Kobe needed another all star player to win a title. What a loser.

Pathetic! He should just hang em up no doubt.

[sa_butta]

End of the game, and you have Kobe and Lebron...
Who do you let take the last shot to win the game??

Although Lebron has higher shooting percentages, I would still take Kobe in this situation.

[lefty]

End of the game, and you have Kobe and Lebron...
Who do you let take the last shot to win the game??

Although Lebron has higher shooting percentages, I would still take Kobe in this situation.
Kobe, despite those slippery hands

[NewcastleKEG]

38 year old MJ on Wizard = 32 year old (still in prime) Kobe on Lakers
It's quite shocking

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bryanko01.html



Everyone would fall short to MJ comparisons though. Someone more along the lines of Kobe - Dominque Wilkins.

Wilkins played in a much tougher defensive era and yet put up just as good if not superior numbers than Kobe

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wilkido01.html

Dominique Wilkins > Kobe

[mystargtr34]

End of the game, and you have Kobe and Lebron...
Who do you let take the last shot to win the game??

Although Lebron has higher shooting percentages, I would still take Kobe in this situation.

One possession... one shot to win the game (<24 seconds) i take Kobe because of his shot making abilitiy. In the last 5 minutes of a game up until then... LeBron.

[Jt.ONE]

38 year old MJ on Wizard = 32 year old (still in prime) Kobe on Lakers
It's quite shocking

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bryanko01.html



Everyone would fall short to MJ comparisons though. Someone more along the lines of Kobe - Dominque Wilkins.

Wilkins played in a much tougher defensive era and yet put up just as good if not superior numbers than Kobe

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wilkido01.html

Dominique Wilkins > Kobe


32y/o kobe = still in his prime?
:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

[NewcastleKEG]

32y/o kobe = still in his prime?
:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao
27-32 is the prime of an athletes career

Not my concern that Kobe is brittle and mentally weak. The guy has played with like 8 Hall of Famers in his career and spent almost his entire career on the most loaded roster in the league.

[Mike D]

http://i.imgur.com/1Y2Tm.jpg

[LakerHater]

http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/6622/1302323030909.jpg

[SomeCallMeTim]

27-32 is the prime of an athletes career

Not my concern that Kobe is brittle and mentally weak.

Ballhog? Yes.

Jerk? Sure.

Brittle and mentally weak? Now I know you're firing blindly.

You might as well belittle Shaq for being skinny or Duncan for being too emotional.

[rayjayjohnson]

Can I belittle Duncan for being a massive fag?

[21_Blessings]

Can I belittle Duncan for being a massive fag?

Why make fun of your own kind?

[Isitjustme?]

Would that be the Gasol that had 0 playoff victories prior to joining the Lakers. ZERO for life. Certainly a Mavs fan would know what thats like.

The Mavs have won about 200 playoff games probably.

[Muser]

The Mavs have won about 200 playoff games probably.

lol cobbler

[namlook]

New quote from Phil Jackson 4/27/11 article - Says Kobe is as good as Jordan.

"I wouldn't compare them," said Jackson, who coached both. "I think Kobe's as good as Michael."

http://www.latimes.com/sports/basketball/nba/lakers/la-sp-heisler-lakers-hornets-20110428,0,4852967.column



Dominique Wilkins > Kobe

:lmao

[phxspurfan]

38 year old MJ on Wizard = 32 year old (still in prime) Kobe on Lakers
It's quite shocking


Jordan didn't start in the NBA at 18

[cobbler]

Jordan didn't start in the NBA at 18

NewCastle obviously doesn't grasp the concept of NBA court time.

[Cry Havoc]

jordan w/o pippen: .430 win %, 0 playoff series victories; 1-9 playoff record; 0 mvp; 0 championships; 0 all defensive teams

kobe w/o shaq: .620 win%; 3 finals; 2 championships; 5 time all defense; 81pt game

and whatever number mvps for kobe

Kobe with 3 all-stars on his team = swept.

[Cry Havoc]

Jordan + Gasol + Odom + Bynum + Artest = 16-1 NBA Champs.

[LakerHater]

4th period FG% in career playoff games is... 36%!

[Giuseppe]

4th period FG% in career playoff games is... 36%!

Still & all:::

Kobe: 5

tired old shit bag Duncan: 4

ha, ha.

[maddnezz]

Still & all:::

Kobe: 5

tired old shit bag Duncan: 4

ha, ha. http://ts1.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=829618920188&id=4708e11dcff9a5b51bd2ccae77485b56&url=http%3a%2f%2fwww.thebroombrothers.com%2f102_12 53.JPG:lol

[Spurtacus]

Black Mambas do hibernate early for the summer.

[Veterinarian]

Oh. My. Kobe swept. Jamstone's gonna have his work cut out for himself this summer.

[LakerHater]

KoMe's last FG was 6:18 in the 2nd period!!!

[TDMVPDPOY]

man elimination games, expecially losses, how come kobe goes out in savage beatings...

[TampaDude]

man elimination games, expecially losses, how come kobe goes out in savage beatings...

WERD...when Kobe loses, he loses BIG! :lol

[jmill]

In a recent interview with Kobe


Bryant was content to leave the season in the past, describing it as "a wasted year of my life," but he's looking ahead with a new edge.

"What I think about is shutting up those [expletives] talking about I'm done," Bryant said.

[Brad2217]

go mavs

[Cessation]

This thread's time is almost up, naruto is taking over.

[21_Blessings]

Kobe won a back to back with a glorified roleplayer as his second option.

If anything, his legacy is only enhanced by this reality.

The Lakers will take out the garbage and reload pretty quickly. Kobe has at least one more run in him.

[ElNono]

Pau won a back to back with a glorified roleplayer as his second option.

fify

[dunkman]

Why is this "important" and a sticky thread? I mean may recommend to others, but Kobe has lost a step or two . . .

[Narutoluva]

this thread is fucking gay, mine's way better

[pass1st]

I'm not a huge Kobe fan, but the guy is an enigma sometimes. Hardly ever dunks one season, plays like KB8 during the AS game. I always like to see what's going to happen next year with him. Too bad he didn't mature when he was in his prime, oh well.

[Kori Ellis]

Why is this "important" and a sticky thread? I mean may recommend to others, but Kobe has lost a step or two . . .

Because there were about 10 Kobe threads a day, so we merged them together and stuck it here to control the Kobe chaos.

[johnnymoore]

Kobe won a back to back with a glorified roleplayer as his second option.

If anything, his legacy is only enhanced by this reality.

The Lakers will take out the garbage and reload pretty quickly. Kobe has at least one more run in him.

If he wins one with Mike Brown (and the window is 2 years, IMO), he will have done what MJ could not do: get a ring without Phil Jackson.

[Calispursfan11]

Father time is unkind to NBA joints. Kobe's ego will send him the way of AI, still thinking he needs to be No. 1 when soon all his aging body will be able to do is fill a limited role until he retires. He will never accept this as his ego is the size of Australia and thus his end will be quick, bitter and ugly just like AI's. Goodbye sweet Kobe. You were amazing and infuriating as an opponent to the Spurs, but I fear that you will not age gracefully.

[Venti Quattro]

Father time is unkind to NBA joints. Kobe's ego will send him the way of AI, still thinking he needs to be No. 1 when soon all his aging body will be able to do is fill a limited role until he retires. He will never accept this as his ego is the size of Australia and thus his end will be quick, bitter and ugly just like AI's. Goodbye sweet Kobe. You were amazing and infuriating as an opponent to the Spurs, but I fear that you will not age gracefully.

Cali spurfan? Sup midnightpulp

[pass1st]

Father time is unkind to NBA joints. Kobe's ego will send him the way of AI, still thinking he needs to be No. 1 when soon all his aging body will be able to do is fill a limited role until he retires. He will never accept this as his ego is the size of Australia and thus his end will be quick, bitter and ugly just like AI's. Goodbye sweet Kobe. You were amazing and infuriating as an opponent to the Spurs, but I fear that you will not age gracefully.

It's easy to hate Kobe, but it's hard to deny that he's dealing with age pretty well. He has amazing work-ethic and has made the proper adjustments to his game over time.

Iverson didn't have that work ethic that makes a player extend their career into their 30s.

eGDBR2L5kzI

[BobKnight]

If he wins one with Mike Brown (and the window is 2 years, IMO), he will have done what MJ could not do: get a ring without Phil Jackson.

Woopdeedoo.

Mr.Bean and Pushover will not mix well.
Kobe's hero complex will get the best of him.
He will shoot more ridiculous low percentage shots than ever before.
Stay in low IQ chucker mode more often and drag the team down.
And Pushover won't be able to do shit about it.

[Spurtacus]

rUm_ULmypq4