School shooting: Parkland, Florida

[koriwhat]

You seem like the kind of person who goes to a bar alone and talks at length with strangers while oblivious to their body language telling you they really don't care to talk to you. Am I warm?

just like most here, you're always wrong! keep jumping to conclusions and stroke that ego some more.

i don't even drink, well not much at all and def not at bars. i drink like a beer a month if that. i never go out. i am a boring person. sorry to bust that bubble of yours.

[Spurminator]

just like most here, you're always wrong! keep jumping to conclusions and stroke that ego some more.

i don't even drink, well not much at all and def not at bars. i drink like a beer a month if that. i never go out. i am a boring person. sorry to bust that bubble of yours.

That's cool, hey excuse me a sec. (Walks away and doesn't come back.)

[koriwhat]

http://washingtonpress.com/wp-content/uploads/chaddie-900x697.jpg

gun control, yeah that's the answer! the only control the left wants is complete control and that's a world where citizen's have no rights to bear arms.

maybe we should get down to the real issues here; parenting and mental illness. you can thank bigPharma for creating a society of bi-polar nutjobs.

[pgardn]

yeah but what's the recurring theme here? the fbi/cops are always tipped off prior but let shit slip through anyhow. they need to start doing their fucking jobs and stop meddling in politics.


How many do they get?

These are the ones you hear about.
There are many that are totally off the radar. Then we play the game why are they not picked up.

When they are considered dangerous, the vast majority go underground or do things that could not possibly be imagined given the Intel.

So for Chris and the Trumpeters, the FBI must necessarily be grossly incompetent because it's impossible to be perfect.
This is a basic argument for all ideological zealots. Pretend things are simple when they are not. It's ignorantly repetitive.
Cry because they are after our president.

[pgardn]

Like he was the only kid in MS HS school/CC with these problems?
You gonna fund the alternative school that puts up teenage boys that threaten people and have an interest in guns?

I say this party takes place at your house.

Young males are incredibly violent creatures in many cultures. If one looks at violent crime rate in almost ANY country, it's teenage to mid 20s males. The availability of weapons that kill many quickly, IS a problem in this country. The only reason males of this age are not more efficient is probably because they are too immature to totally think thru a situation.

Now Vegas dude, he did a proper job.

IMO "mental health", is kicking the can down the road as well. There are plenty of mental health care patients who are totally nonviolent except towards themselves. This fictious quick ID of unstable people that WILL use a weapon... I wish it could be this easy.

And I'm not sure about how to approach getting these types of weapons and the associated ammo off the streets. I'm not exactly sure how to classify them. That's for the people who really know these tactics and weapons. Our gun group on here probably has the best ideas how to classify. So go ahead and start. If you had to be better than Mr. Vegas, where do you go easily, and what do you use easily purchased?


Again.

[Chris]

964305490514554881

[Chris]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DWHy5VsX4AEp_YZ.jpg:large

[pgardn]

964305490514554881

Why are they unemployed Chris?

The economy is humming?

[spurraider21]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DWHy5VsX4AEp_YZ.jpg:large
dylan roof is a registered democrat? news to me, tbh. link?
the virginia tech shooter was a registered democrat? news to me, tbh. link?

[Chris]

Why are they unemployed Chris?

The economy is humming?

Because this country treats veterans like garbage to be thrown away and forgotten. The VA was in god awful shape (thanks Obama!) before Trump got elected. He started reforming the VA the first month of his presidency.

[Spurminator]

Chris posting lies about people dying horrifically for the lols.

[spurraider21]

Chris posting lies about people dying horrifically for the lols.


Never let a good tragedy go to waste

Disgusting.

[Chris]

I'm guess it wasn't verified by snopes or the memepolice?

[pgardn]

Because this country treats veterans like garbage to be thrown away and forgotten. The VA was in god awful shape (thanks Obama!) before Trump got elected. He started reforming the VA the first month of his presidency.

What?

So I know the ones in the hospitals were in bad shape in some VAHs. It was criminal.

But there are 400,000 ex troops in the VA hospitals?

[Chris]

What?

So I know the ones in the hospitals were in bad shape in some VAHs. It was criminal.

But there are 400,000 ex troops in the VA?

I forgot to look at the user name again. Nevermind - carry on.

[Bill_Brasky]

Shit's sad. Watched the vids. Saw pictures of the victims and what sweet kids they all were. Read about the heroic actions of teachers and admins who sacrificed their lives to save others. I cried. The amount of weaponry that falls into the hands of the worst of us really does terrify me. It's past time we did something about it.

[djohn2oo8]

Chris is like a piece of shit stuck on a dog's ass.

[pgardn]

I forgot to look at the user name again. Nevermind - carry on.

Yeah.
That would be good for you.
Because you are inferring some really, really stupid stuff.

[Chris]

Thanks Chelsea.

[Chris]

Yeah.
That would be good for you.
Because you are inferring some really, really stupid stuff.

No, you're just an idiot. Carry on.

[pgardn]

Chris

Sliced and diced again.
Gonna be a VA administrator next.

[Chris]

964309811427934208

[Mark Celibate]

Shit's sad. Watched the vids. Saw pictures of the victims and what sweet kids they all were. Read about the heroic actions of teachers and admins who sacrificed their lives to save others. I cried. The amount of weaponry that falls into the hands of the worst of us really does terrify me. It's past time we did something about it.
What do you think we do about it?

[djohn2oo8]

Because this country treats veterans like garbage to be thrown away and forgotten. The VA was in god awful shape (thanks Obama!) before Trump got elected. He started reforming the VA the first month of his presidency.

Yeah. Trump nominating the best people

963810095443345409

[Mark Celibate]

Anyone have any ideas or theories as to why in the 70 years post ww2 in this age of automatic weaponry why this is a relatively new age phenomenon? I know I blame it on the breakdown of social cohesion.

[Spurtacular]

Anyone have any ideas or theories as to why in the 70 years post ww2 in this age of automatic weaponry why this is a relatively new age phenomenon? I know I blame it on the breakdown of social cohesion.

Zombie-induced youths via drugs, public indoctrination, etc.

[Bill_Brasky]

What do you think we do about it?

Be reasonable and make it more costly to legally obtain/own. Maybe use our brains and realize that supporting restrictions on guns =/= wanting an allout ban.

[monosylab1k]

That's why they want to use veterans dipshit. That's why they want extra security, so the kids are not relying on Rambo dipshit.

Yeah but all we need is a good guy with a gun, that’s what the NRA has been saying for years. Are you saying a good guy with a gun isn’t enough? You dare to defy your lord and savior Wayne LaPierre?

[pgardn]

Anyone have any ideas or theories as to why in the 70 years post ww2 in this age of automatic weaponry why this is a relatively new age phenomenon? I know I blame it on the breakdown of social cohesion.

Every generation seems to blame another for some social ill. The TV took families away from the dinner table. This was supposed to be crisis to some. You blame what? on the lack of social cohesion?

[Chris]

gun control, yeah that's the answer! the only control the left wants is complete control and that's a world where citizen's have no rights to bear arms.

maybe we should get down to the real issues here; parenting and mental illness. you can thank bigPharma for creating a society of bi-polar nutjobs.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DWGo2c9UMAAh28k.jpg:large

[spurraider21]

oh look. confiscation strawman. never seen that one before

[midnightpulp]

Anyone have any ideas or theories as to why in the 70 years post ww2 in this age of automatic weaponry why this is a relatively new age phenomenon? I know I blame it on the breakdown of social cohesion.

There's never a single "magic bullet" answer. But I believe we can blame a few elements of modern (American) life (since the 1980s, which is when mass/school shootings started increasing to uncomfortable frequencies) that could possibly explain the epidemic.

- As noted earlier by myself and a few others, mental health treatment in the country is terrible. To demonstrate how much society "cares" about mental health treatment, it costs 75K per year here in California (in tax dollars) to house an inmate (who is more than likely a non-violent offender and suffering from a mental health issue like addiction). In comparison, only 160 dollars are ear marked per capita for mental health treatment. See this list here on how much each state spends per capita: http://www.governing.com/gov-data/health/mental-health-spending-by-state.html. And the nationwide average to house inmates is 33K per year.

Furthermore, I don't see it as a surprise correlation that the mass shooting epidemic started in the 1980s after Reagan signed the Omnibus Act, which considerably slashed mental health care funding. And henceforth, the majority (if not all) states enacted a 72 hour hold provision in lieu of in-patient institutional commitment (the former is obviously much cheaper).

- 24 hours news cycle. Disillusioned, potentially violent people looking for a way to "get back" at society are notorious copycats. I grew up in the 80s, and never once saw a report about a mass shooting (despite there being many of them). CNN was only on cable, so there wasn't any channels that would cover a breaking story such as a mass shooting 24/7. The most coverage an incident like that would get would be a quick segment on the local 10 'o clock news (unless of course the incident was local to the area). So in those days, a brooding, unstable misanthrope ostensibly had less access to "inspirational ideas" and/or would receive much less coverage of his act (a typical trait of mass shooters is they want their act to be remembered). Today, a mass shooter is basically turned into a quasi-celebrity via the endless amount of news websites and channels, and for copycats, there's no shortage of "heroes," who are now household names, to emulate.

- Highest divorce rate in US history, single parent households at an all-time high. Not the best environment to rear children, and I'm not surprised there's a correlation (and epidemic divorce started in the 1980s).

- Echoing point 1, I think anti-depressants and other behavioral altering psychotropic drugs could play a role. Even though these drugs have been around for decades, we still really don't know the full range of their side-effects or efficacy. SSRIs never endured a comprehensive clinical trial before they were rushed out into the market. And recent studies have shown they're no more effective than placebo for treating depression. https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/obsessively-yours/201001/five-reasons-not-take-ssris. And yet, physicians dish them out like candy. And once again, another positive correlation between the rise of SSRI prescriptions and mass shootings.

- This is probably the opinion you'll disagree with, but considering all the above, I think it is prudent to enact stricter gun control. The above factors have seemed to create a decline in our collective society's responsibility and trustworthiness, so to continue with 1940s gun control laws in the face of that doesn't make sense, at least until we get the above sociological factors sorted out. A troubled individual like Cruz should not have been able to walk into a gun store and buy an AR-15 like he was ordering a cheeseburger. Again, no bans, confiscation, just more vetting. Minimum age 21 and you're required to undergo a licensing procedure like when driving a car. Since mandatory mental health checkups can seem a bit draconian, maybe a mandatory renewal of your license every 2 years should be put into the books. I also think a tiered licensing structure makes sense. Class A, B, C. If you want to own something like an AR-15, I think you first need to prove yourself a responsible "Class A" (shotguns, hunting rifles, revolvers) gun owner for a couple of years before you graduate to a higher class license. Automobile licenses are structured similarly.

[pgardn]

There's never a single "magic bullet" answer. But I believe we can blame a few elements of modern (American) life (since the 1980s, which is when mass/school shootings started increasing to uncomfortable frequencies) that could possibly explain the epidemic.

- As noted earlier by myself and a few others, mental health treatment in the country is terrible. To demonstrate how much society "cares" about mental health treatment, it costs 75K per year here in California (in tax dollars) to house an inmate (who is more than likely a non-violent offender and suffering from a mental health issue like addiction). In comparison, only 160 dollars are ear marked per capita for mental health treatment. See this list here on how much each state spends per capita: http://www.governing.com/gov-data/health/mental-health-spending-by-state.html. And the nationwide average to house inmates is 33K per year.

Furthermore, I don't see it as a surprise correlation that the mass shooting epidemic started in the 1980s after Reagan signed the Omnibus Act, which considerably slashed mental health care funding. And henceforth, the majority (if not all) states enacted a 72 hour hold provision in lieu of in-patient institutional commitment (the former is obviously much cheaper).

- 24 hours news cycle. Disillusioned, potentially violent people looking for a way to "get back" at society are notorious copycats. I grew up in the 80s, and never once saw a report about a mass shooting (despite there being many of them). CNN was only on cable, so there wasn't any channels that would cover a breaking story such as a mass shooting 24/7. The most coverage an incident like that would get would be a quick segment on the local 10 'o clock news (unless of course the incident was local to the area). So in those days, a brooding, unstable misanthrope ostensibly had less access to "inspirational ideas" and/or would receive much less coverage of his act (a typical trait of mass shooters is they want their act to be remembered). Today, a mass shooter is basically turned into a quasi-celebrity via the endless amount of news websites and channels, and for copycats, there's no shortage of "heroes," who are now household names, to emulate.

- Highest divorce rate in US history, single parent households at an all-time high. Not the best environment to rear children, and I'm not surprised there's a correlation (and epidemic divorce started in the 1980s).

- Echoing point 1, I think anti-depressants and other behavioral altering psychotropic drugs could play a role. Even though these drugs have been around for decades, we still really don't know the full range of their side-effects or efficacy. SSRIs never endured a comprehensive clinical trial before they were rushed out into the market. And recent studies have shown they're no more effective than placebo for treating depression. https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/obsessively-yours/201001/five-reasons-not-take-ssris. And yet, physicians dish them out like candy. And once again, another positive correlation between the rise of SSRI prescriptions and mass shootings.

- This is probably the opinion you'll disagree with, but considering all the above, I think it is prudent to enact stricter gun control. The above factors have seemed to create a decline in our collective society's responsibility and trustworthiness, so to continue with 1940s gun control laws in the face of that doesn't make sense, at least until we get the above sociological factors sorted out. A troubled individual like Cruz should not have been able to walk into a gun store and buy an AR-15 like he was ordering a cheeseburger. Again, no bans, confiscation, just more vetting. Minimum age 21 and you're required to undergo a licensing procedure like when driving a car. Since mandatory mental health checkups can seem a bit draconian, maybe a mandatory renewal of your license every 2 years should be put into the books. I also think a tiered licensing structure makes sense. Class A, B, C. If you want to own something like an AR-15, I think you first need to prove yourself a responsible "Class A" (shotguns, hunting rifles, revolvers) gun owner for a couple of years before you graduate to a higher class license. Automobile licenses are structured similarly.

Interesting.

We have a poster who can think.
Welcome.
And imagine this.
He is older than most of us...I think.

Family structure with Mom & Dad actually living happily together can solve some others listed I would think.

[SpursforSix]

Anyone have any ideas or theories as to why in the 70 years post ww2 in this age of automatic weaponry why this is a relatively new age phenomenon? I know I blame it on the breakdown of social cohesion.

Rap music

[ducks]

'LOVE TRUMPS HATE': Leftists Attack Trump Supporter Whose Daughter Was Killed In Shooting
https://www.dailywire.com/news/27215/love-trumps-hate-leftists-attack-trump-supporter-ryan-saavedra

[Chris]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DWIPnw4X0AAzTdE.jpg:large

[Mark Celibate]

There's never a single "magic bullet" answer. But I believe we can blame a few elements of modern (American) life (since the 1980s, which is when mass/school shootings started increasing to uncomfortable frequencies) that could possibly explain the epidemic.

- As noted earlier by myself and a few others, mental health treatment in the country is terrible. To demonstrate how much society "cares" about mental health treatment, it costs 75K per year here in California (in tax dollars) to house an inmate (who is more than likely a non-violent offender and suffering from a mental health issue like addiction). In comparison, only 160 dollars are ear marked per capita for mental health treatment. See this list here on how much each state spends per capita: http://www.governing.com/gov-data/health/mental-health-spending-by-state.html. And the nationwide average to house inmates is 33K per year.

Furthermore, I don't see it as a surprise correlation that the mass shooting epidemic started in the 1980s after Reagan signed the Omnibus Act, which considerably slashed mental health care funding. And henceforth, the majority (if not all) states enacted a 72 hour hold provision in lieu of in-patient institutional commitment (the former is obviously much cheaper).

- 24 hours news cycle. Disillusioned, potentially violent people looking for a way to "get back" at society are notorious copycats. I grew up in the 80s, and never once saw a report about a mass shooting (despite there being many of them). CNN was only on cable, so there wasn't any channels that would cover a breaking story such as a mass shooting 24/7. The most coverage an incident like that would get would be a quick segment on the local 10 'o clock news (unless of course the incident was local to the area). So in those days, a brooding, unstable misanthrope ostensibly had less access to "inspirational ideas" and/or would receive much less coverage of his act (a typical trait of mass shooters is they want their act to be remembered). Today, a mass shooter is basically turned into a quasi-celebrity via the endless amount of news websites and channels, and for copycats, there's no shortage of "heroes," who are now household names, to emulate.

- Highest divorce rate in US history, single parent households at an all-time high. Not the best environment to rear children, and I'm not surprised there's a correlation (and epidemic divorce started in the 1980s).

- Echoing point 1, I think anti-depressants and other behavioral altering psychotropic drugs could play a role. Even though these drugs have been around for decades, we still really don't know the full range of their side-effects or efficacy. SSRIs never endured a comprehensive clinical trial before they were rushed out into the market. And recent studies have shown they're no more effective than placebo for treating depression. https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/obsessively-yours/201001/five-reasons-not-take-ssris. And yet, physicians dish them out like candy. And once again, another positive correlation between the rise of SSRI prescriptions and mass shootings.

- This is probably the opinion you'll disagree with, but considering all the above, I think it is prudent to enact stricter gun control. The above factors have seemed to create a decline in our collective society's responsibility and trustworthiness, so to continue with 1940s gun control laws in the face of that doesn't make sense, at least until we get the above sociological factors sorted out. A troubled individual like Cruz should not have been able to walk into a gun store and buy an AR-15 like he was ordering a cheeseburger. Again, no bans, confiscation, just more vetting. Minimum age 21 and you're required to undergo a licensing procedure like when driving a car. Since mandatory mental health checkups can seem a bit draconian, maybe a mandatory renewal of your license every 2 years should be put into the books. I also think a tiered licensing structure makes sense. Class A, B, C. If you want to own something like an AR-15, I think you first need to prove yourself a responsible "Class A" (shotguns, hunting rifles, revolvers) gun owner for a couple of years before you graduate to a higher class license. Automobile licenses are structured similarly.
That’s a pretty well thought out post as far as ST goes, a lot of that is fleshing out my simply put “breakdown of social cohesion.”

Selfish, instant gratification culture tells us to believe in quick fix solutions such as pills to solve our problems. I have seen the studies on SSRIs and do believe that they increase the propensity towards violence in an already ill individual while doing nothing to address the actual causes of the illness itself. Psychiatric care would be a nice pie in the sky utopian fix but for a country that’s bankrupt and can’t even afford to provide its citizens healthcare good luck getting that one through a gridlocked congress.

Sensationalist news coverage for the consumption of mass society and an erosion of morality in glorifying these criminals are also to blame. Morality in general has been on then decline ever since everything became relative and negotiable. For this we can thank critical theory brought to us by the Frankfurt school and their sociologists And psychiatrists. For them our culture was evil and had to be torn down completely before it could be built back up to their liking, and nothing of the old trusty moral code was beyond questioning.

Their handy work has led to a complete loss of cultural confidence. Since it was all done by design I disagree about draconian gun control proposals “while we figure this out” because I don’t believe they’ll ever want to put America back like it was, they want to put the nail in its coffin and have something else born out of its ruin.

[monosylab1k]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DWGo2c9UMAAh28k.jpg:large

How many guns did Obama take away from citizens?

[Chris]

964354557500276739

[Chris]

How many guns did Obama take away from citizens?

Obama opened up his yapper today. We're not talking about his tenure.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DWHJchEWkAEzTNf.jpg:large

[monosylab1k]

Obama opened up his yapper today. We're not talking about his tenure.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DWHJchEWkAEzTNf.jpg:large

The cartoon you posted was made when Obama was in office, you twat. How many guns did he take away?

[Chris]

The cartoon you posted was made when Obama was in office, you twat. How many guns did he take away?

Congress blocked his ass :lol

[Mark Celibate]

You won’t get intellectual dishonesty out of the left chris. We all know what obama would do if he were emperor. He pointed to Australia as a gun control success story. Remember Australia underwent complete gun confiscation so draw your conclusions.

[Chris]

You won’t get intellectual dishonesty out of the left chris. We all know what obama would do if he were emperor. He pointed to Australia as a gun control success story. Remember Australia underwent complete gun confiscation so draw your conclusions.

The bans wouldn't have stopped with just assault weapons. Imagine the precedent that would have been set. Part of the reason a new assault weapons ban didn’t gain traction in Congress under Obama was because the prior assault weapons ban, from 1994 to 2004, didn’t stop violent incidents like mass shootings. The IntraTec TEC-DC9 was on the banned list and was among the weapons confiscated at Columbine.

[DMX7]

Congress blocked his ass :lol

So he took away no guns then, huh, Chris? Nice.

[djohn2oo8]

So he took away no guns then, huh, Chris? Nice.

:lol

[Chris]

So he took away no guns then, huh, Chris? Nice.

Yeah good thing Congress blocked his Radical Socialist ass. Harold Washington's prodigy.

[Isitjustme?]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DWIPnw4X0AAzTdE.jpg:large

Have you heard about the wonders of reverse mortgages? It just may be the solution for you

[monosylab1k]

So he took away no guns then, huh, Chris? Nice.

:lol

[monosylab1k]

The bans wouldn't have stopped with just assault weapons. Imagine the precedent that would have been set. Part of the reason a new assault weapons ban didn’t gain traction in Congress under Obama was because the prior assault weapons ban, from 1994 to 2004, didn’t stop violent incidents like mass shootings. The IntraTec TEC-DC9 was on the banned list and was among the weapons confiscated at Columbine.

“:cry imagine what Obama would have done if he was an emperor and not a president :cry”

Now you dumbasses are criticizing Obama for his fictional alternate reality decisions. :lmao

[benfti]

Left/right is not the issue. The issue is you have a country full of dumb motherfuckers

Gun control works. Only dumb motherfuckers think it doesn’t.

so if you don’t think it would work. It’s coz you’re a dumb motherfucker.

you could argue, but you’ll actually find you’re a dumb motherfucker

[Pavlov]

Yeah good thing Congress blocked his Radical Socialist ass. Harold Washington's prodigy.How many guns do you own, Chris?

10?

50?

[boutons_deux]

(federal) gun regs NOW are useless if they have no impact on the 300M+ guns already in circulation

Congressional whores are also useless for gun control since one of its many johns is BigGun

Police lose 1000s of their guns/year, effectively no punishment, maybe some PAID LEAVE.

600K guns are stolen every year, but no penalty for the gun owners.

Gun insanity is just one of the many ways sicko America is fucked and unfuckable.

Keep the thoughts & prayers, outgoing hearts coming, and invest in candle stocks

[Splits]

and invest in candle stocks

lol

[ElNono]

The plea for federal intervention comes from the failure to test the legal boundaries of the 2nd amendment at the State level, which is where it would need to happen naturally first.

Gun control advocates should take a cue from Abortion advocates in that respect, tbh, they're relentless in convincing State officials to pass laws that are constantly testing the boundaries.

Eventually you might end up with a flagship case that goes through the SCOTUS, and that's how you set the blueprint to move forward (along with actual evidence of such a system working).

Trying to skip the state-level will always look like an overreach, and frankly gives more ammo to the NRA and their dummies.

[Splits]

Former neighbor of suspected gunman Nikolas Cruz shares video believed to be shooter

Wonder what his red hat with white letters on the front says... Make Antifa Great Again?

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/broward/parkland/florida-school-shooting/fl-florida-school-shooter-gun-neighbor-20180215-story.html

[Splits]

The plea for federal intervention comes from the failure to test the legal boundaries of the 2nd amendment at the State level, which is where it would need to happen naturally first.

Gun control advocates should take a cue from Abortion advocates in that respect, tbh, they're relentless in convincing State officials to pass laws that are constantly testing the boundaries.

Eventually you might end up with a flagship case that goes through the SCOTUS, and that's how you set the blueprint to move forward (along with actual evidence of such a system working).

Trying to skip the state-level will always look like an overreach, and frankly gives more ammo to the NRA and their dummies.

Don't disagree with the approach, but the District took this path which resulted in the 5-4 Heller decision, a huge setback for us strict constitutionalism who know what the phrase 'well regulated militia' means.

[pgardn]

Don't disagree with the approach, but the District took this path which resulted in the 5-4 Heller decision, a huge setback for us strict constitutionalism who know what the phrase 'well regulated militia' means.

It means Bundification of federal bird sanctuaries.
They captured that bitch and held firm till the Snickers ran out.
It was a heroic example for Chris and set the stage for real paranoia.

[Blake]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DWGo2c9UMAAh28k.jpg:large

Muh right to have that ar-15

[RandomGuy]

Everyone needs to send Thoughts and Prayers and Condolences to the victims and their families RIGHT NOW

https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/80303360/breaking-the-first-truckload-of-thoughts-prayers-just-arrived-in-fl.jpg

[DMC]

Same shit different day. Same general conversation about it.

[spurraider21]

Same shit different day. Same general conversation about it.
Yup. And unless something changes we’ll come back here again and again and again because they’ll keep happening

[Spurminator]

Yup. And unless something changes we’ll come back here again and again and again because they’ll keep happening

Today's excuse seems to be Hollywood violence, because it's 1982 again. Also we're the only nation in the world with violent entertainment.

[Trill Clinton]

Just saw the photo of him in his MAGA hat and boxers pointing a gun. Right wing supremacists have a lot of blood on their hands.

[spurraider21]

oh look political points. such a useless exercise.

[AaronY]

Left/right is not the issue. The issue is you have a country full of dumb motherfuckers

Gun control works. Only dumb motherfuckers think it doesn’t.

so if you don’t think it would work. It’s coz you’re a dumb motherfucker.

you could argue, but you’ll actually find you’re a dumb motherfucker
Lol

[Mark Celibate]

Left/right is not the issue. The issue is you have a country full of dumb motherfuckers

Gun control works. Only dumb motherfuckers think it doesn’t.

so if you don’t think it would work. It’s coz you’re a dumb motherfucker.

you could argue, but you’ll actually find you’re a dumb motherfucker
Look I spotted a pussy

[CosmicCowboy]

Just saw the photo of him in his MAGA hat and boxers pointing a gun.

Did you jack off?

[Warlord23]

There's never a single "magic bullet" answer. But I believe we can blame a few elements of modern (American) life (since the 1980s, which is when mass/school shootings started increasing to uncomfortable frequencies) that could possibly explain the epidemic.

- As noted earlier by myself and a few others, mental health treatment in the country is terrible. To demonstrate how much society "cares" about mental health treatment, it costs 75K per year here in California (in tax dollars) to house an inmate (who is more than likely a non-violent offender and suffering from a mental health issue like addiction). In comparison, only 160 dollars are ear marked per capita for mental health treatment. See this list here on how much each state spends per capita: http://www.governing.com/gov-data/health/mental-health-spending-by-state.html. And the nationwide average to house inmates is 33K per year.

Furthermore, I don't see it as a surprise correlation that the mass shooting epidemic started in the 1980s after Reagan signed the Omnibus Act, which considerably slashed mental health care funding. And henceforth, the majority (if not all) states enacted a 72 hour hold provision in lieu of in-patient institutional commitment (the former is obviously much cheaper).

- 24 hours news cycle. Disillusioned, potentially violent people looking for a way to "get back" at society are notorious copycats. I grew up in the 80s, and never once saw a report about a mass shooting (despite there being many of them). CNN was only on cable, so there wasn't any channels that would cover a breaking story such as a mass shooting 24/7. The most coverage an incident like that would get would be a quick segment on the local 10 'o clock news (unless of course the incident was local to the area). So in those days, a brooding, unstable misanthrope ostensibly had less access to "inspirational ideas" and/or would receive much less coverage of his act (a typical trait of mass shooters is they want their act to be remembered). Today, a mass shooter is basically turned into a quasi-celebrity via the endless amount of news websites and channels, and for copycats, there's no shortage of "heroes," who are now household names, to emulate.

- Highest divorce rate in US history, single parent households at an all-time high. Not the best environment to rear children, and I'm not surprised there's a correlation (and epidemic divorce started in the 1980s).

- Echoing point 1, I think anti-depressants and other behavioral altering psychotropic drugs could play a role. Even though these drugs have been around for decades, we still really don't know the full range of their side-effects or efficacy. SSRIs never endured a comprehensive clinical trial before they were rushed out into the market. And recent studies have shown they're no more effective than placebo for treating depression. https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/obsessively-yours/201001/five-reasons-not-take-ssris. And yet, physicians dish them out like candy. And once again, another positive correlation between the rise of SSRI prescriptions and mass shootings.

- This is probably the opinion you'll disagree with, but considering all the above, I think it is prudent to enact stricter gun control. The above factors have seemed to create a decline in our collective society's responsibility and trustworthiness, so to continue with 1940s gun control laws in the face of that doesn't make sense, at least until we get the above sociological factors sorted out. A troubled individual like Cruz should not have been able to walk into a gun store and buy an AR-15 like he was ordering a cheeseburger. Again, no bans, confiscation, just more vetting. Minimum age 21 and you're required to undergo a licensing procedure like when driving a car. Since mandatory mental health checkups can seem a bit draconian, maybe a mandatory renewal of your license every 2 years should be put into the books. I also think a tiered licensing structure makes sense. Class A, B, C. If you want to own something like an AR-15, I think you first need to prove yourself a responsible "Class A" (shotguns, hunting rifles, revolvers) gun owner for a couple of years before you graduate to a higher class license. Automobile licenses are structured similarly.

You make some interesting points, some I agree with and some I don't ... but I believe the biggest factor by far is the easy availability of guns. The other factors, while material, are less influential.

1. 24-hour news cycle. Every other country has this. You could argue that some countries wouldn't let propaganda outlets like Fox News operate the way they do. However, the UK has the Daily Mail and a bevy of Murdoch franchises which have a similar operation. Increasingly, people are getting their news from the internet rather than TV, and most of the world has near-identical access to internet content

2. Divorce rate: Both the UK and Denmark have a higher % of single parent households. France and a few other countries are close. Not really a factor.

3. Too much anti-depressant use: Partially agree, however many of the mass shooters in US history were not on drugs of any sort. The Columbine shooters weren't on drugs, neither was Charles Whitman, James Holmes stopped anti-depressant use before his spree etc.

4. Not enough mental health: This is definitely a factor. I think it's the overall healthcare system of the US to blame. Even if you had more mental health funding, the access to care in the US is very restrictive and would still leave many out of the net, unlike most of the developed world where access and coverage are near-universal.

Other excuses like video games, cell phones and Hollywood are BS (South Koreans play a lot more video games, cell phone use is widespread even in developing nations, and Hollywood movies are watched globally).

The one thing that is unique to the US is the availability of guns. Many developed countries have reasonable levels of gun availability. Most have application systems including theoretical/practical tests for firearm ownership, along with license/permit and registry systems. The US just makes it too easy for people to acquire a gun without having to prove competence or mental stability. You can either walk into a store and buy it in 20 minutes after a couple of checks, or you can buy it in a private sale with zero checks.

No matter what the constitution says, it is just too easy for a nutcase to get his hands on an AR-15. That's the #1 problem by far.

[Trill Clinton]

Did you jack off?

No homo man

[Trill Clinton]

I make an observation of a child killing maniac and CC is asking about muh dick. Gay and usual.

[Mark Celibate]

I make an observation of a child killing maniac and CC is asking about muh dick. Gay and usual.
Lol you and CC are still in love kool?

[boutons_deux]

Rachel Maddow Shreds Chuck Grassley For ‘Personally’ Making Guns Accessible To The Mentally Ill

Grassley was the lead sponsor of legislation that made it harder to add the names of mentally ill individuals to the FBI database.

http://www.politicususa.com/2018/02/15/rachel-maddow-calls-out-grassley.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+politicususa%2FfJAl+%28Politi cus+USA+%29

[boutons_deux]

White House refuses to release photo of Trump gun law repeal

The White House has refused to release a photo of President Donald Trump signing a law making it easier for some people with mental illness to buy guns.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-43088644

:lol dickless Repugs :lol

[Pavlov]

White House refuses to release photo of Trump gun law repeal

The White House has refused to release a photo of President Donald Trump signing a law making it easier for some people with mental illness to buy guns.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-43088644

:lol dickless Repugs :lol


Hilariously pathetic.

[boutons_deux]

It’s An Honor To Continue Being Valued Over Countless Human Lives (https://www.theonion.com/it-s-an-honor-to-continue-being-valued-over-countless-h-1819585030)


https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/pvnfo1gaac0uwpepdrem.jpg

Look, I’m not the type who needs constant validation, and I have never sought preferential treatment from anyone.

I just try to focus on doing what I do and not get too caught up in what people think or say about me.

But I have to admit, it’s been hard to ignore all the support and appreciation I’ve been receiving lately, particularly over the past several years.

That’s why I want to take this opportunity to let all of you know what an absolute honor it is that you continue to value me over countless human lives.

I don’t want to get too sentimental or anything, but it really means the world to me how

often you as Americans, through your words and your actions, make it known that I am more important to you than the lives of your fellow citizens.




Truly, from the bottom of my heart, thank you.

You see, I’m just a humble lightweight, magazine-fed semi-automatic rifle; I never expected this kind of outpouring of affection.

But time and time again, you’ve shown me how much I matter to you.

To see so many people —

people who could be working to protect and care for human lives—

actively devoting their time and energy to making sure I’m the one who’s protected and cared for instead—

it’s beyond touching.

Don’t think I haven’t noticed all this.

Rarely a month goes by without all of you pausing to weigh me against a certain number of lives

—often a dozen or more—and quickly deciding I’m more worthwhile.

Gosh, you must really, really love me.

I mean, wow, who do I thank first? I guess I’ve got to start with lawmakers. No one so consistently speaks up on my behalf, praises what I stand for, and does everything in their power to make sure no harm ever comes to me.

These are individuals who have hundreds of thousands of constituents whose lives they could so easily put ahead of my interests, yet these principled elected officials steadfastly refuse to do so.

Instead,

they stick to their guiding beliefs and firmly declare that I—a simple modular rifle with high-capacity-magazine compatability—have more value than any number of human beings. It’s truly humbling.

What a blessing it is to reside in a society with such clear and unwavering priorities.

https://www.theonion.com/it-s-an-honor-to-continue-being-valued-over-countless-h-1819585030

[Trill Clinton]

Lol you and CC are still in love kool?

I'm not Kool fam. I do miss my brother though. And yea, for whatever reason CC is still crushing on me.

[CosmicCowboy]

I'm not Kool fam. I do miss my brother though. And yea, for whatever reason CC is still crushing on me.

You searching out pics of guys in their underwear is what it is.

[RandomGuy]

Same shit different day. Same general conversation about it.

Pretty much.

How many dead kids are you willing to put up with in order to have unfettered access to guns?

[Trill Clinton]

You searching out pics of guys in their underwear is what it is.

It was on the main page of CNN http://i65.tinypic.com/2ebr50x.jpg

Go take a nap old man and stop imagining me. I didn't kill those kids, the white supremacist shooter did. Keep the focus on him.

[boutons_deux]

White House: Guy with legally purchased gun shouldn't have had it (https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/2/16/1741947/-White-House-Guy-with-legally-purchased-gun-shouldn-t-have-had-it)

The White House is now saying that the Parkland, Florida, school shooter should not have had the gun he used to kill 17 people (https://www.politico.com/story/2018/02/16/florida-shooting-weapon-white-house-415663) … even though the AR-15 assault-style rifle was obtained legally.


“In this instance, this individual did obtain the weapon through a legal background check," [principal deputy press secretary Raj] Shah told Fox News during an interview.

"You know, we don’t know all the circumstances surrounding it, but obviously he shouldn’t have had that weapon and shouldn’t have been able

to do the kinds of things that he did.” :lol


https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/2/16/1741947/-White-House-Guy-with-legally-purchased-gun-shouldn-t-have-had-it

slaughtering and maiming dozens of people is just "kinds of things" ? :lol

[RandomGuy]

https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/171213180354-sandy-hook-victims-graphic-super-169.jpg

https://www.cnn.com/2017/12/14/us/sandy-hook-newtown-shooting-victims-profiles/index.html

It wasn't the time then to talk about banning assault rifles.

How about now?

[RandomGuy]

It was on the main page of CNN http://i65.tinypic.com/2ebr50x.jpg

Go take a nap old man and stop imagining me. I didn't kill those kids, the white supremacist terrorist did. Keep the focus on him.

FIFCC

[Pavlov]

https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/171213180354-sandy-hook-victims-graphic-super-169.jpg

https://www.cnn.com/2017/12/14/us/sandy-hook-newtown-shooting-victims-profiles/index.html

It wasn't the time then to talk about banning assault rifles.

How about now?Semantics incoming.

[boutons_deux]

Budget undercuts Trump focus on mental health, school safety

President Donald Trump is calling for a focus on mental health and school safety in response to shootings like the one that took 17 lives in Florida, but

his budget would cut funding in both areas.

Trump's latest budget would slash the major source of public funds for mental health treatment,

the Medicaid program serving more than 70 million low-income and disabled people.

The budget also calls for a

36 percent cut to an Education Department grant program that supports safer schools,

reducing it by $25 million from the current level of $67.5 million.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/budget-undercuts-trump-focus-mental-053727242.html

[boutons_deux]

correction:

No, there haven’t been 18 school shootings in 2018. That number is flat wrong.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/no-there-havent-been-18-school-shooting-in-2018-that-number-is-flat-wrong/2018/02/15/65b6cf72-1264-11e8-8ea1-c1d91fcec3fe_story.html?utm_term=.072f9b2b597b

[Mark Celibate]

Pretty much.

How many dead kids are you willing to put up with in order to have unfettered access to guns?
6 trillion

[Pavlov]

6 trillionHow do you lose all your guns in a boating accident?

[Mark Celibate]

How do you lose all your guns in a boating accident?
Lol you’re one stupid forum dweller. That meme has been around as long as the Internet. I think it originated with an ad or something.

[Pavlov]

Lol you’re one stupid forum dweller. That meme has been around as long as the Internet. I think it originated with an ad or something.Oh, so how many guns do you currently own?

[monosylab1k]

Did you jack off?

Pretty creepy thing to ask another dude on the internet.

[monosylab1k]

Semantics incoming.

“ :cry If you can’t properly differentiate a clip from a magazine then I get to keep muh guns!”

[Spurminator]

I think best case scenario we can realistically expect from all of this is that it creates a social stigma around being really into guns.

Your gun collection isn't cool. Your pictures of yourself holding guns aren't cool. The way you revolve your self-identity around being a gun person isn't cool.

[DMC]

Pretty much.

How many dead kids are you willing to put up with in order to have unfettered access to guns?

or unfettered access to schools

I told you last time, ban guns, you pussies.

[spurraider21]

This is just keeps circling back to dmc's Strawman of gun confiscation.

He waives off any other idea and just says "that won't help. You have to resort to confiscation." And then gets to say confiscation is bad

rinse, repeat

[boutons_deux]

NRA Calls For Teachers To Keep Loaded Gun Pointed At Class For Entire School Day (https://www.theonion.com/nra-calls-for-teachers-to-keep-loaded-gun-pointed-at-cl-1819575763)
https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--80AdDq1m--/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/wh3pftsnzdgijzfgdegq.jpg

https://www.theonion.com/nra-calls-for-teachers-to-keep-loaded-gun-pointed-at-cl-1819575763?utm_content=Main&utm_campaign=SF&utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=SocialMarketing

Actual NRA/Repug suggestions are just as silly, but offered in complete seriousness.

[SpursforSix]

FBI admits it didn’t investigate tip on alleged school shooter last month (https://nypost.com/2018/02/16/fbi-failed-to-investigate-tip-on-school-shooter-last-month/)


https://nypost.com/2018/02/16/fbi-failed-to-investigate-tip-on-school-shooter-last-month/


But the agency said it failed to pass on any of that information to its Miami field office, even thought its own protocols say he “should have been assessed as a potential threat to life.”
(https://nypost.com/2018/02/16/fbi-failed-to-investigate-tip-on-school-shooter-last-month/)

[Spurminator]

Certainly sucks in hindsight that they didn't identify this guy as a threat but my guess is for every one of him there are 10,000 other little shitbags who post stuff like that online "for the lulz" and turn out to be as threatening as boutons with a pillow.

[koriwhat]

These are the ones you hear about.
There are many that are totally off the radar. Then we play the game why are they not picked up.

When they are considered dangerous, the vast majority go underground or do things that could not possibly be imagined given the Intel.

So for Chris and the Trumpeters, the FBI must necessarily be grossly incompetent because it's impossible to be perfect.
This is a basic argument for all ideological zealots. Pretend things are simple when they are not. It's ignorantly repetitive.
Cry because they are after our president.

it's cool if you want to keep making excuses for an agency not needed any longer and who have gone rogue anyhow.

[SpursforSix]

Certainly sucks in hindsight that they didn't identify this guy as a threat but my guess is for every one of him there are 10,000 other little shitbags who post stuff like that online "for the lulz" and turn out to be as threatening as boutons with a pillow.

Sure. But they didn't even turn his name over to the local branch to follow up on.

Seems like it would have been an easy thing to do to at least pass it off. Then if Miami doesn't want to screw with it, it's on them.

[monosylab1k]

Yeah it’s pretty inexcusable of the FBI. That’s literally the entire point of them existing.

[Mark Celibate]

Yeah it’s pretty inexcusable of the FBI. That’s literally the entire point of them existing.
No it isn’t, it’s to protect obama/Clinton and investigate drumpf evidently

[boutons_deux]

Yeah it’s pretty inexcusable of the FBI. That’s literally the entire point of them existing.

somewhat agree, but any local FBI office could be getting 10s or 100s of leads, tips on suspects.

What do they do if they get what looks like a serious threat but the person has done nothing wrong?

[Spurminator]

Wrong thread

[lebomb]

"Robert Lasky, special agent-in-charge with FBI, said they are conducting an in-depth review of how they respond to tips from the public.

His announcement comes after the FBI admitted someone close to the shooter called a tipline in January, but no one acted on the information. The information was not passed to the Miami Field Office.

"We truly regret any additional pain that this has caused," he said at the news conference.

He continued: “The men and women who work in the Miami field office are part of this community. We walk the same streets. Our children attend the same schools to include Stoneman Douglas. We worship at the same places. We are part of this community. As this community hurts so do we."


I bet a visit to this kids house would have prevented the tragedy. Wow.

[rmt]

Ds said that 3/4 of the student body didn't show up today because there was a rumor of gun threat circulating via text. Wonder how many pranks nationwide.

[boutons_deux]

a pilot instructor reported to FBI that a flight learner, a foreigner, wanted to learn how to fly, but now how to takeoff and land, but FBI did nothing.

It was one of the 9/11 hijackers.

[Chris]

20



964615627079069697

[pgardn]

Like he was the only kid in MS HS school/CC with these problems?
You gonna fund the alternative school that puts up teenage boys that threaten people and have an interest in guns?

I say this party takes place at your house.

Young males are incredibly violent creatures in many cultures. If one looks at violent crime rate in almost ANY country, it's teenage to mid 20s males. The availability of weapons that kill many quickly, IS a problem in this country. The only reason males of this age are not more efficient is probably because they are too immature to totally think thru a situation.

Now Vegas dude, he did a proper job.

IMO "mental health", is kicking the can down the road as well. There are plenty of mental health care patients who are totally nonviolent except towards themselves. This fictious quick ID of unstable people that WILL use a weapon... I wish it could be this easy.

And I'm not sure about how to approach getting these types of weapons and the associated ammo off the streets. I'm not exactly sure how to classify them. That's for the people who really know these tactics and weapons. Our gun group on here probably has the best ideas how to classify. So go ahead and start. If you had to be better than Mr. Vegas, where do you go easily, and what do you use easily purchased?

Acknowledgment to Chris

Now that more info is in.
FBI failed IMO.

The bolded is too flippant on my part. Though it still is a problem.
The rest, still stands.

[Blake]

20



964615627079069697

K, what were they going to do about it?

[Blake]

Acknowledgment to Chris

Now that more info is in.
FBI failed IMO.

The bolded is too flippant on my part. Though it still is a problem.
The rest, still stands.

What should the fbi have done here?

[pgardn]

What should the fbi have done here?

Say they had looked at it and took these steps.

[Blake]

Say they had looked at it and took these steps.

What steps

[pgardn]

What steps

Have you read this thread?

[Blake]

Have you read this thread?

Yeah, all 13 pages. If you want to stop at "they just should have done more" fine, but I myself want to figure out how they specifically fucked up here

[pgardn]

Nah.

I agree they may have difficulty stopping it.
But the protocol... Learn.

[pgardn]

And why did we not learn before.
My bolded is flippant.

[DMX7]

The first thing we need to do is pass common sense gun control legislation but we must also address the systemic issue of racism in our country.

Are you going to look at this and tell me racism isn't alive and well in America? P.F. Chang's? Are you fucking kidding me, Channel 7 WLS-ABC?

https://img-s-msn-com.akamaized.net/tenant/amp/entityid/BBJed19.img?h=1080&w=1920&m=6&q=60&o=f&l=f&x=384&y=110

[William Hung]

Don't mess with Texas

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DWM1bm2VwAkYax0.jpg:large

[Chris]

964649621212495872

[Chris]

May need to ban knives

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DWM6fZVWkAEIiIu.jpg:large

[DMC]

There's never a single "magic bullet" answer. But I believe we can blame a few elements of modern (American) life (since the 1980s, which is when mass/school shootings started increasing to uncomfortable frequencies) that could possibly explain the epidemic.

- As noted earlier by myself and a few others, mental health treatment in the country is terrible. To demonstrate how much society "cares" about mental health treatment, it costs 75K per year here in California (in tax dollars) to house an inmate (who is more than likely a non-violent offender and suffering from a mental health issue like addiction). In comparison, only 160 dollars are ear marked per capita for mental health treatment. See this list here on how much each state spends per capita: http://www.governing.com/gov-data/health/mental-health-spending-by-state.html. And the nationwide average to house inmates is 33K per year.

Furthermore, I don't see it as a surprise correlation that the mass shooting epidemic started in the 1980s after Reagan signed the Omnibus Act, which considerably slashed mental health care funding. And henceforth, the majority (if not all) states enacted a 72 hour hold provision in lieu of in-patient institutional commitment (the former is obviously much cheaper).

- 24 hours news cycle. Disillusioned, potentially violent people looking for a way to "get back" at society are notorious copycats. I grew up in the 80s, and never once saw a report about a mass shooting (despite there being many of them). CNN was only on cable, so there wasn't any channels that would cover a breaking story such as a mass shooting 24/7. The most coverage an incident like that would get would be a quick segment on the local 10 'o clock news (unless of course the incident was local to the area). So in those days, a brooding, unstable misanthrope ostensibly had less access to "inspirational ideas" and/or would receive much less coverage of his act (a typical trait of mass shooters is they want their act to be remembered). Today, a mass shooter is basically turned into a quasi-celebrity via the endless amount of news websites and channels, and for copycats, there's no shortage of "heroes," who are now household names, to emulate.

- Highest divorce rate in US history, single parent households at an all-time high. Not the best environment to rear children, and I'm not surprised there's a correlation (and epidemic divorce started in the 1980s).

- Echoing point 1, I think anti-depressants and other behavioral altering psychotropic drugs could play a role. Even though these drugs have been around for decades, we still really don't know the full range of their side-effects or efficacy. SSRIs never endured a comprehensive clinical trial before they were rushed out into the market. And recent studies have shown they're no more effective than placebo for treating depression. https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/obsessively-yours/201001/five-reasons-not-take-ssris. And yet, physicians dish them out like candy. And once again, another positive correlation between the rise of SSRI prescriptions and mass shootings.

- This is probably the opinion you'll disagree with, but considering all the above, I think it is prudent to enact stricter gun control. The above factors have seemed to create a decline in our collective society's responsibility and trustworthiness, so to continue with 1940s gun control laws in the face of that doesn't make sense, at least until we get the above sociological factors sorted out. A troubled individual like Cruz should not have been able to walk into a gun store and buy an AR-15 like he was ordering a cheeseburger. Again, no bans, confiscation, just more vetting. Minimum age 21 and you're required to undergo a licensing procedure like when driving a car. Since mandatory mental health checkups can seem a bit draconian, maybe a mandatory renewal of your license every 2 years should be put into the books. I also think a tiered licensing structure makes sense. Class A, B, C. If you want to own something like an AR-15, I think you first need to prove yourself a responsible "Class A" (shotguns, hunting rifles, revolvers) gun owner for a couple of years before you graduate to a higher class license. Automobile licenses are structured similarly.

I could successfully argue for a total ban coupled with buy-back then confiscation of military style semi-automatic weapons. The left can't, because they are ignorant of the facts and they wait for emotional moments to try to get something going, but it comes across as politicizing a tragedy.

People who buy hunting rifles are likely not dreaming of shooting other people. While it's true that many many decent/neutral people own and use AR-15 style rifles, they have become the fad of the lunatic fringe.

Claim: Criminals would still have them
Rebuttal: True, but how many mass shootings were committed by wanted felons? Most of them, if not all of them, were legally innocent prior to that event.

Claim: 2nd Amendment
Rebuttal: This is a tough one. The USSC is tasked with interpreting and defending the BoR, however it's not divine edict. It's simply a nation that has to decide how to move on an issue and a supreme court that has to be presented with facts that don't rely on plea to emotion.

I've heard so much bullshit lately from people who should know better. A retired chief of police saying people who seek mental health professional help should be reported by the professional. Everyone here can see how that would be stupid, since the individual is much better off at least seeking help than not, and that individual probably would not seek help if he knew he was going to be reported to the local and federal law enforcement agencies.

You could create truly safe zones, like in an airport beyond the gates. You don't hear of many shootings there. Schools would have to be more regimented in how they conduct security, and strangers couldn't just walk into a school. I can't believe in 2018 you can still open a door or tailgate someone with a code and enter any school in the nation, no matter the age of the students. It's ridiculous. You cannot get on a plane with a nail file, but you can get into a room full of children with a loaded weapon, nary a cop in sight.

What the FBI won't say, nor will the DOJ, is that although the public sees these signs in advance, they see them all over the place, and most of them never come to fruition. They don't report it because the crazy guy down the street is more trustworthy, to them, than the feds.

[spurraider21]

May need to ban knives

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DWM6fZVWkAEIiIu.jpg:large
2014. And 8 people in a coordinated attack. I’m more comfortable with aspiring mass murderers having knives than guns

[midnightpulp]

May need to ban knives

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DWM6fZVWkAEIiIu.jpg:large

It was a group. Imagine the havoc a group possessing AR-15s could wreak inside a train? Or at a concert? That said, I would be in agreement with "knife control" that sought to keep knives out of the hands of lunatics and terrorists. But that might just be about impossible to enforce since you can make a knife out of just about any hard material that's reasonably malleable. Gun control is easier to implement across the board, which is why legislation in that area is targeted by concerned advocates more heavily than anything else. I get your point. You want moonbat liberals to be logically consistent and express sincerity, since it so often seems they focus on guns simply for the purpose of agitating conservatives while attempting to take the moral high ground vis a vis "uncaring, gun toting rednecks who value their toys over human life."

There has to be a middle ground where a reasonable gun control idea doesn't punish responsible people while also lessening the frequency of school and mass shootings. You'll notice I left out general gun violence, since I think what's happening in places like urban Chicago is caused by a variety of sociological factors that gun control won't have much efficacy in solving.

[pgardn]

May need to ban knives

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DWM6fZVWkAEIiIu.jpg:large

With 8 assasains they needed many magazines and ar-15s. Would have been much more efficient.

[Chris]

2014. And 8 people in a coordinated attack. I’m more comfortable with aspiring mass murderers having knives than guns

Yeah, I regret posting such low hanging fruit, but the argument for gun control really is that dumb. Bad guys are going to do bad things until the end of time regardless of bans or regulations. Best to go out and buy yourself some protection instead of relying on State or Federal to solve your problems.

[pgardn]

Yeah, I regret posting such low hanging fruit, but the argument for gun control really is that dumb. Bad guys are going to do bad things until the end of time regardless of bans or regulations. Best to go out and buy yourself some protection instead of relying on State or Federal to solve your problems.

So

Just Wild West on steroids.
How about jacket protection from projectiles like the army and police have? Do they have sizes for kids 2-11?
Suggestions for Helmets?

[Chris]

So

Just Wild West on steroids.
How about jacket protection from projectiles like the army and police have? Do they have sizes for kids 2-11?
Suggestions for Helmets?

Kevlar :tu

[Chris]

964303718035341312

[Blake]

.

[midnightpulp]

Yeah, I regret posting such low hanging fruit, but the argument for gun control really is that dumb. Bad guys are going to do bad things until the end of time regardless of bans or regulations. Best to go out and buy yourself some protection instead of relying on State or Federal to solve your problems.

But bans and regulations can limit the severity of the bad things bad guys do. Furthermore, the State/Federal government is, nominally, supposed to represent the will of people, so voting in favor of legislation or something along those lines is doing something about it, or at least trying to do something about it (since we know government on both sides of the aisle act in the best interests of only themselves and their special interests pimps). I don't want to worry about having to potentially defend myself against a gun-toting Adam Lanza. I'd rather Adam Lanza not tote guns in the first place. I don't see what's unreasonable about applying the same standards to gun ownership/use as we do to car/boat/plane ownership use?

[Blake]

Yeah, I regret posting such low hanging fruit, but the argument for gun control really is that dumb. Bad guys are going to do bad things until the end of time regardless of bans or regulations. Best to go out and buy yourself some protection instead of relying on State or Federal to solve your problems.

Right, there should be no ban on any weapons whatsoever.

It's the 2nd amendment.

You're stupid.

[midnightpulp]

964303718035341312

Credit the curing of the crack epidemic for the drop. But troublingly, the rise of mass/school shootings has risen by leaps. The thing is, it's easier for society to psychologically accept drug dealers killing other drug dealers, since there's a clear motive and purpose behind that kind of violence, so it's sociologically more understandable. We know "why" they do it. Mass shootings that target innocents are chaotically irrational, and thus more terrifying. We don't know "why?" Schools, churches, concerts, malls are places where you're supposed to feel safe, so the collective anxiety everyone feels is understandable, which can't be easily calmed by citing the decline in overall gun violence. The decline of criminal on criminal violence doesn't offset (from a concern standpoint) the uptick in gun violence of the mass shooting variety.

[pgardn]

Credit the curing of the crack epidemic for the drop. But troublingly, the rise of mass/school shootings has risen by leaps. The thing is, it's easier for society to psychologically accept drug dealers killing other drug dealers, since there's a clear motive and purpose behind that kind of violence, so it's sociologically more understandable. We know "why" they do it. Mass shootings that target innocents are chaotically irrational, and thus more terrifying. We don't know "why?" Schools, churches, concerts, malls are places where you're supposed to feel safe, so the collective anxiety everyone feels is understandable, which can't be easily calmed by citing the decline in overall gun violence. The decline of criminal on criminal violence doesn't offset (from a concern standpoint) the uptick in gun violence of the mass shooting variety.


Yep.

Very good point.
Kevlar to school.
Sounds grand. Especially in August&September. I can see it on the school list.

Turn school into airport security. Arrive two hrs early so you are not late to 1st period. School is fun.

[Chris]

But bans and regulations can limit the severity of the bad things bad guys do. Furthermore, the State/Federal government is, nominally, supposed to represent the will of people, so voting in favor of legislation or something along those lines is doing something about it, or at least trying to do something about it (since we know government on both sides of the aisle act in the best interests of only themselves and their special interests pimps). I don't want to worry about having to potentially defend myself against a gun-toting Adam Lanza. I'd rather Adam Lanza not tote guns in the first place. I don't see what's unreasonable about applying the same standards to gun ownership/use as we do to car/boat/plane ownership use?

I'm in favor of backround checks as much as the next guy, but that theory only works if you guarantee me Adam Lanza is not going to get a gun off the streets or through a 3rd party. Criminals will always go around regulations and bans. I imagine one gun toting citizen could have could have neutralized 8 men with advanced knive skills with little to no training. Disarming the public solves nothing. "An armed society is a polity society" will stand the test of time.

[pgardn]

I'm in favor of backround checks as much as the next guy, but that theory only works if you guarantee me Adam Lanza is not going to get a gun off the streets or through a 3rd party. Criminals will always go around regulations and bans. I imagine one gun toting citizen could have could have neutralized 8 men with advanced knive skills with little to no training. Disarming the public solves nothing. "An armed society is a polity society" will stand the test of time.

Im thinking it'll be cool when well maintained militias go after each other.
Yeah citizens. When that little piece of Texas breaks away and breaks into the adjacent county igniting a conflict. We could be like tribalistic Bedouins with automatic weapons.
Good stuff.

[midnightpulp]

I'm in favor of backround checks as much as the next guy, but that theory only works if you guarantee me Adam Lanza is not going to get a gun off the streets or through a 3rd party. Criminals will always go around regulations and bans. I imagine one gun toting citizen could have could have neutralized 8 men with advanced knive skills with little to no training. Disarming the public solves nothing. "An armed society is a polity society" will stand the test of time.

It's always a possibly an Adam Lanza (or a Paddock, with his resources) could amass an illegal arsenal, but it's an easier pill to swallow that they committed their acts with illegally purchased weapons than with legally purchased weapons, the latter of which kind of implicates all of us, as a society, to a degree since we were collectively okay with lax gun laws that allowed troubled people easy access to firearms. It's also not fair to put that psychological burden on a gun shop owner. I remember one of the gun shop owners who sold Paddock a lot of guns feeling a significant amount of guilt. Maybe they were crocodile tears, but personally, I would probably feel the same way. If I owned a gun store, I would want to be sure I'm selling to a responsible individual.

[monosylab1k]

It's always a possibly an Adam Lanza (or a Paddock, with his resources) could amass an illegal arsenal, but it's an easier pill to swallow that they committed their acts with illegally purchased weapons than with legally purchased weapons, the latter of which kind of implicates all of us, as a society, to a degree since we were collectively okay with lax gun laws that allowed troubled people easy access to firearms. It's also not fair to put that psychological burden on a gun shop owner. I remember one of the gun shop owners who sold Paddock a lot of guns feeling a significant amount of guilt. Maybe they were crocodile tears, but personally, I would probably feel the same way. If I owned a gun store, I would want to be sure I'm selling to a responsible individual.

I feel like the type of person who would want to own & operate a gun shop probably wouldn’t give a shit.

[midnightpulp]

Yep.

Very good point.
Kevlar to school.
Sounds grand. Especially in August&September. I can see it on the school list.

Turn school into airport security. Arrive two hrs early so you are not late to 1st period. School is fun.

Yeah, personally I hate the "well, just employ a bunch of armed security at schools, churches, malls, etc." Is this a fuckin' 3rd world country now? I really don't like the idea of schools having security measures that superficially resemble a prison, with children seeing armed guards or teachers, having to be frisked and ushered through metal detectors (which has been a feature of urban schools for like two decades, anyhow). When armed guards and such need to be positioned at schools and churches, to me, that's illustrative of a society with some deep sociological issues. It normalizes violence.

[monosylab1k]

Yeah, personally I hate the "well, just employ a bunch of armed security at schools, churches, malls, etc." Is this a fuckin' 3rd world country now? I really don't like the idea of schools having security measures that superficially resemble a prison, with children seeing armed guards or teachers, having to be frisked and ushered through metal detectors (which has been a feature of urban schools for like two decades, anyhow). When armed guards and such need to be positioned at schools and churches, to me, that's illustrative of a society with some deep sociological issues. It normalizes violence.

Plus it will create it’s own set of issues when the rich white areas get more armed guards per student than poor black areas.

[midnightpulp]

Plus it will create it’s own set of issues when the rich white areas get more armed guards per student than poor black areas.

I also like let's put the 400,000 or whatever unemployed veterans to work guarding our schools. They're unemployed for a reason (likely suffering from issues like PTSD, depression, anger issues, etc). I have family member vets with PTSD. I would not be comfortable with them in security guard positions at a school. I don't think they would necessarily be a threat to the kids, but one feature of PTSD is paranoia, so it's conceivable they would act out at perceived threats too rashly.

[Chris]

It's always a possibly an Adam Lanza (or a Paddock, with his resources) could amass an illegal arsenal, but it's an easier pill to swallow that they committed their acts with illegally purchased weapons than with legally purchased weapons, the latter of which kind of implicates all of us, as a society, to a degree since we were collectively okay with lax gun laws that allowed troubled people easy access to firearms. It's also not fair to put that psychological burden on a gun shop owner. I remember one of the gun shop owners who sold Paddock a lot of guns feeling a significant amount of guilt. Maybe they were crocodile tears, but personally, I would probably feel the same way. If I owned a gun store, I would want to be sure I'm selling to a responsible individual.

So we make it harder for bad guys to get guns with better backround checks and perhaps longer wait times to get guns. I think most people are in favor of that. It's when you start talking about bans, while using vague words like 'gun control', that people start pointing to the 2nd amendment.

[ElNono]

Yeah, I regret posting such low hanging fruit, but the argument for gun control really is that dumb. Bad guys are going to do bad things until the end of time regardless of bans or regulations. Best to go out and buy yourself some protection instead of relying on State or Federal to solve your problems.

The 'bad guys will always have guns' is a terrible argument against regulation, tbh, there's bad actors doing bad things in all walks of life, that doesn't mean we don't have effective regulations to minimize the damage they do and deter copy-cats.

From companies bilking consumers, to safety standards, they have a provable effectiveness in deterring and reducing damage, even if they don't entirely suppress it.

There's much more sound arguments to be made against gun control, tbh, but they're not soundbites.

[midnightpulp]

So we make it harder for bad guys to get guns with better backround checks and perhaps longer wait times to get guns. I think most people are in favor of that. It's when you start talking about bans, while using vague words like 'gun control', that people start pointing to the 2nd amendment.

I'm not in favor of a ban. I think it's a moral wrong to punish a responsible majority for the actions of an irresponsible minority. Prohibition was an attempt at this.

[ElNono]

It's always a possibly an Adam Lanza (or a Paddock, with his resources) could amass an illegal arsenal, but it's an easier pill to swallow that they committed their acts with illegally purchased weapons than with legally purchased weapons, the latter of which kind of implicates all of us, as a society, to a degree since we were collectively okay with lax gun laws that allowed troubled people easy access to firearms. It's also not fair to put that psychological burden on a gun shop owner. I remember one of the gun shop owners who sold Paddock a lot of guns feeling a significant amount of guilt. Maybe they were crocodile tears, but personally, I would probably feel the same way. If I owned a gun store, I would want to be sure I'm selling to a responsible individual.

This is the salient point. Criminals breaking the law by selling or purchasing guns illegally is an area where there might not be a lot to do, outside of further deterrent and enforcement.

But when you have ways to obtain the weapons legally without a trace, plus you don't continually monitor that the law abiding citizen is sound of mind to have those guns, then we're failing. This is an area where we can improve, but we purposely don't.

The other problem is what 'improve' means. It has to be something that's not draconian, or an overreach on rights, and sometimes, in the past, it has been.

[Mark Celibate]

The 'bad guys will always have guns' is a terrible argument against regulation, tbh, there's bad actors doing bad things in all walks of life, that doesn't mean we don't have effective regulations to minimize the damage they do and deter copy-cats.

From companies bilking consumers, to safety standards, they have a provable effectiveness in deterring and reducing damage, even if they don't entirely suppress it.

There's much more sound arguments to be made against gun control, tbh, but they're not soundbites.

equally bad argument, good guys with guns actually stop bad guys with guns whereas good guys with drugs don’t stop bad guys with drugs etc. it’s an apples and oranges comparison. Some things need to be banned and others don’t. Guns fall under dont. Guns are a tool for good or for bad unlike some things which are just simply bad.

[Mark Celibate]

This is the salient point. Criminals breaking the law by selling or purchasing guns illegally is an area where there might not be a lot to do, outside of further deterrent and enforcement.

But when you have ways to obtain the weapons legally without a trace, plus you don't continually monitor that the law abiding citizen is sound of mind to have those guns, then we're failing. This is an area where we can improve, but we purposely don't.

The other problem is what 'improve' means. It has to be something that's not draconian, or an overreach on rights, and sometimes, in the past, it has been.
Do you also want to ban pain pills since some people abuse them and get addicted? That’s the logic you are following here.

[midnightpulp]

Do you also want to ban pain pills since some people abuse them and get addicted? That’s the logic you are following here.

Don't think Nono is arguing for a wholesale ban. That said, pain pills are regulated and can only be (legally) obtained through a prescription. Let's call a prescription a de facto license, in this case. We need licenses (and a subsequent renewal of those licenses) to: drive, boat, fly, fish, hunt, sell alcohol, food, and even start a business. Why should guns be exempt from a comprehensive licensing procedure? You can take the road with some degree of comfort knowing fellow motorists proved themselves competent to drive. Similarly, I like to engage in society knowing gun owners proved themselves as responsible "good guys."

[Chris]

Qe1zEPEyERM

[Chris]

7dQx3lEUKII

[spurraider21]

Yeah, I regret posting such low hanging fruit, but the argument for gun control really is that dumb. Bad guys are going to do bad things until the end of time regardless of bans or regulations. Best to go out and buy yourself some protection instead of relying on State or Federal to solve your problems.
Cool.

So why are guns the weapon of choice for most mass killers. Rather than knives, bombs, trucks, etc

[spurraider21]

964303718035341312
Crazy. Murder rate is down despite all the illegal immigration since then

[benfti]

Look I spotted a pussy
I found a dumb motherfucker, it wasn’t hard in your dumbfuck country.

[midnightpulp]

Okay, I was just elected Supreme Furor of the United States. I just got done banning soccer and now it's time to tackle the gun control issue. Tell me if these are unreasonable measures to go through if you want to own a firearm.

- Minimum age: 21

- Cannot have been convicted of a felony and misdemeanor domestic violence (already on the books currently).

- Persons diagnosed with mental health disorders such as: schizophrenia, borderline personality disorder, anti-social personality disorder, bipolar disorder are prohibited. Persons with obsessive compulsive disorder, panic disorder, Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, clinical depression, and addiction disorders are required to attend/continue their treatment program as recommended by their doctor.

- Mandatory gun safety class for the 3 major categories of firearm: handguns, shotguns, and rifles.

- Tiered licensing structure. The initial license granted will be Class A, allowing the person to purchase and posses only handguns, shotguns, and single shot rifles after the above criteria are met. A Class B license, which allows purchase of rifles that exceed single shot capacity, can be applied for after one year of obtaining the Class A license.

- Gun dealers must perform mandatory background checks to examine for the above conditions. If any of the above conditions are not met, sale is prohibited. Additionally, gun dealer has the right to refuse service, even if purchaser meets the conditions in question.

- Licenses must be renewed every two years after date of issue.

- License can be revoked if any of the above conditions are violated.

[benfti]

Just ban automatic and semi automatic weapons you fuckstick. There is zero reason other than being a mouth breathing dumbfuck to own one

[ElNono]

equally bad argument, good guys with guns actually stop bad guys with guns whereas good guys with drugs don’t stop bad guys with drugs etc. it’s an apples and oranges comparison. Some things need to be banned and others don’t. Guns fall under dont. Guns are a tool for good or for bad unlike some things which are just simply bad.

What's the compelling case why 'Guns don't'? And are you referring to outright banning all guns? That's would fall into draconian, and we already know it's not legally possible. Although we do know banning certain guns is.

We didn't ban all paint when we found out lead in them was toxic, pollutant and a public hazard, but we did ban some of them. Asbestos in insulation also didn't ban all insulation, but did effectively address another public hazard.

Cigarettes regulation and taxing took a while, due to the industry prowess, but eventually was also more or less reined in.

Point being, there's plenty of regulation that's not outright banning, that's been provably effective.


Do you also want to ban pain pills since some people abuse them and get addicted? That’s the logic you are following here.

Not at all. Actually a good case has been made repeatedly that legalizing drugs for recreational use under a regulated framework would be much more effective than the current outright ban, which we already know doesn't work.

Will bad actors continue to sell toxic or contaminated drugs in the black market? Sure. That's an enforcement problem, and doesn't preclude actually having a legally regulated channel.

[ElNono]

Don't think Nono is arguing for a wholesale ban. That said, pain pills are regulated and can only be (legally) obtained through a prescription. Let's call a prescription a de facto license, in this case. We need licenses (and a subsequent renewal of those licenses) to: drive, boat, fly, fish, hunt, sell alcohol, food, and even start a business. Why should guns be exempt from a comprehensive licensing procedure? You can take the road with some degree of comfort knowing fellow motorists proved themselves competent to drive. Similarly, I like to engage in society knowing gun owners proved themselves as responsible "good guys."

Yeah, it's also akin to abortion. You could argue, "Well, don't legalize and regulate abortion, since there's always going to be this shady clinics that will do it anyways". But actually do legalizing and requiring properly licensed doctors to carry out the procedure has saved lives (and it has even if you argue that a baby was killed, the premise is that this person was going to carry out the abortion anyways), despite whether you morally agree or not with the procedure. This is actually an area where certain conservatives do want an outright ban on moral grounds, where it's been demonstrated that a regulated approach is actually much more effective.

[pgardn]

Yeah, personally I hate the "well, just employ a bunch of armed security at schools, churches, malls, etc." Is this a fuckin' 3rd world country now? I really don't like the idea of schools having security measures that superficially resemble a prison, with children seeing armed guards or teachers, having to be frisked and ushered through metal detectors (which has been a feature of urban schools for like two decades, anyhow). When armed guards and such need to be positioned at schools and churches, to me, that's illustrative of a society with some deep sociological issues. It normalizes violence.

Preach.

Bingo.
We just give in.
Oh it's the world we live in.
"Can we compare gun safe home protection arsenals, I want to make sure I'm properly equipped."

[pgardn]

What's the compelling case why 'Guns don't'? And are you referring to outright banning all guns? That's would fall into draconian, and we already know it's not legally possible. Although we do know banning certain guns is.

We didn't ban all paint when we found out lead in them was toxic, pollutant and a public hazard, but we did ban some of them. Asbestos in insulation also didn't ban all insulation, but did effectively address another public hazard.

Cigarettes regulation and taxing took a while, due to the industry prowess, but eventually was also more or less reined in.

Point being, there's plenty of regulation that's not outright banning, that's been provably effective.



Not at all. Actually a good case has been made repeatedly that legalizing drugs for recreational use under a regulated framework would be much more effective than the current outright ban, which we already know doesn't work.

Will bad actors continue to sell toxic or contaminated drugs in the black market? Sure. That's an enforcement problem, and doesn't preclude actually having a legally regulated channel.

Dont you bring your practical shit in here.
You dare defy the zealotry protocol required to post on these issues, pfffttt.

[boutons_deux]

Okay, I was just elected Supreme Furor of the United States. I just got done banning soccer and now it's time to tackle the gun control issue. Tell me if these are unreasonable measures to go through if you want to own a firearm.

- Minimum age: 21

- Cannot have been convicted of a felony and misdemeanor domestic violence (already on the books currently).

- Persons diagnosed with mental health disorders such as: schizophrenia, borderline personality disorder, anti-social personality disorder, bipolar disorder are prohibited. Persons with obsessive compulsive disorder, panic disorder, Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, clinical depression, and addiction disorders are required to attend/continue their treatment program as recommended by their doctor.

- Mandatory gun safety class for the 3 major categories of firearm: handguns, shotguns, and rifles.

- Tiered licensing structure. The initial license granted will be Class A, allowing the person to purchase and posses only handguns, shotguns, and single shot rifles after the above criteria are met. A Class B license, which allows purchase of rifles that exceed single shot capacity, can be applied for after one year of obtaining the Class A license.

- Gun dealers must perform mandatory background checks to examine for the above conditions. If any of the above conditions are not met, sale is prohibited. Additionally, gun dealer has the right to refuse service, even if purchaser meets the conditions in question.

- Licenses must be renewed every two years after date of issue.

- License can be revoked if any of the above conditions are violated.

each gun must have govt liability insurance

each gun must be serialized and registered in a national database of owner and owner's guns

each gun must pay an annual registration fee

loss of a gun is automatic $1000 fine

if the gun is used by the non-owner to injure or kill someone, the owner is fined $5000 and 3 years in prison as co-shooter "at fault". This really fucks up the cost of the gun owner's gun liability insurance.

the govt costs of the above is fully funded by revenues from the registration and insurance fees. If not enough revenue, then the govt insurance and registration fees are increased until the revenue is enough.

All of this is FEDERAL bureaucracy (including FEDERAL database of all guns owners), not state or municipal.

Any gun found where the owner cannot provide, on the spot, both proof of current registration and insurance, the gun will be confiscated and destroyed and the owner/possessor fined $1000 per gun.

DWI, domestic violence require gun owner to turn in all guns for one year after each violation.

All of the above applies to govt employees (military, DHS/DBP/ICE, police, sheriff) who lose 1000s guns every year.

[boutons_deux]

Nation Hears Voices Encouraging It To Buy Gun (https://www.theonion.com/nation-hears-voices-encouraging-it-to-buy-gun-1823084495)

https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--Cd5QI6ay--/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/sqtshlqcgjs3fx8nle6j.jpg

Searching for a motive to explain the country’s epidemic of mass shootings, sources confirmed Friday that

the nation was constantly hearing voices encouraging it to buy a gun.

“I hear them all the time, these angry, paranoid voices urging me to go out and arm myself,”

said Pennsylvania resident Arthur Moreland, echoing the sentiments of millions across the country who confirmed that

the voices had been trying to persuade them for a long time now, and that

no matter what they did, they couldn’t get them to stop.

“At first, I tried just shutting out the voices that keep insisting there are lots of bad people in the world out to get me and

that I’ll never be safe without a gun.

But they’re everywhere and they never shut up.

God, if they don’t stop soon,

I’m worried I might do something rash.”

At press time, the increasingly cagey and fearful nation had decided to seek help acquiring a semiautomatic rifle.

https://www.theonion.com/nation-hears-voices-encouraging-it-to-buy-gun-1823084495?utm_content=Main&utm_campaign=SF&utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=SocialMarketing (https://www.theonion.com/nation-hears-voices-encouraging-it-to-buy-gun-1823084495?utm_content=Main&utm_campaign=SF&utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=SocialMarketing)

[TDfan2007]

ElNono and midnightpulp are killing it with their measured and practical arguments.

[TDfan2007]

But bans and regulations can limit the severity of the bad things bad guys do. Furthermore, the State/Federal government is, nominally, supposed to represent the will of people, so voting in favor of legislation or something along those lines is doing something about it, or at least trying to do something about it (since we know government on both sides of the aisle act in the best interests of only themselves and their special interests pimps). I don't want to worry about having to potentially defend myself against a gun-toting Adam Lanza. I'd rather Adam Lanza not tote guns in the first place. I don't see what's unreasonable about applying the same standards to gun ownership/use as we do to car/boat/plane ownership use?

I think the comparison to car licenses is very fair, almost too fair. I think something that gets lost in this debate is that guns have one purpose, to injure/kill. When someone dies from prescription drugs, car accidents, or even a kitchen knife, those objects are being used in a way that is NOT their crafted purpose.

At the very least, guns should be subject to the same access limitations as cars, but imo the framework around the limitation should be even stricter, like you pointed out in your "fuhrer" post

[boutons_deux]

"I think the comparison to car licenses is very fair,"

yes, including annual registration fee, GIN (like a VIN), $100Ks in liability insurance, plus liability for stolen or lost gun, and even more penalty if lost gun is used in a crime.

CarFax to be paralleled by a GunFax

[djohn2oo8]

964865285252702208

[boutons_deux]

Want to see gun control enacted?

Support a movement to arm all black Americans (Muslim Americans)

https://www.rawstory.com/2018/02/want-see-gun-control-enacted-support-movement-arm-black-americans/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheRawStory+%28The+Raw+Story% 29

[koriwhat]

i can't wait to buy my first gun... had another weirdo the other night trying to get into my apartment. this is twice now and it freaks me the fuck out. this time around it was some drunk chick who mistook my apartment for the one across from me so no biggie. the first time though it was some short dude spazzing out in front of my door with what looked like a gun in his hand and he was hitting the fuck out of my door.

i'd love a gun for my apartment and shop. i really want a shotgun for my apartment and a 9mm for the shop.

[Pavlov]

Want to see gun control enacted?

Support a movement to arm all black Americans (Muslim Americans)

https://www.rawstory.com/2018/02/want-see-gun-control-enacted-support-movement-arm-black-americans/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheRawStory+%28The+Raw+Story% 29


Yeah, this is what got both the NRA and St. Ronnie on board for gun control:

http://capweekly.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Black-Panther-with-shotgun-634x321.jpg

[boutons_deux]

Yeah, this is what got both the NRA and St. Ronnie on board for gun control:

http://capweekly.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Black-Panther-with-shotgun-634x321.jpg

Blacks REALLY got the right to vote in the slave states when ARMED black men started patrolling voting sites.

[Chris]

964966284822659072

[Splits]

964994156060868609

[koriwhat]

964994156060868609

for lol's because who the fuck uses checks anyhow these days? all for the media. that's all the DNC and their lackeys got anymore. media hype is all they got. fucking trolls!

[ducks]

https://scontent-lax3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/28058384_1640851135963757_5194232524711526836_n.jp g?efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&oh=fa8ac269b1e3818da5397c1f7e033e8a&oe=5B08B60C

[koriwhat]

https://scontent-lax3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/28058384_1640851135963757_5194232524711526836_n.jp g?efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&oh=fa8ac269b1e3818da5397c1f7e033e8a&oe=5B08B60C

:tu

[Pavlov]

https://scontent-lax3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/28058384_1640851135963757_5194232524711526836_n.jp g?efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&oh=fa8ac269b1e3818da5397c1f7e033e8a&oe=5B08B60C


:tuSo to be consistent, you want guns banned, right?

[djohn2oo8]

So to be consistent, you want guns banned, right?

lol

[boutons_deux]

racist Sessions, as Trash's personal DoJ, going after the FBI just like a good little politicized Repug asshole

Sessions Orders Review Of FBI Inaction On Tip About Suspected Florida Shooter

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/sessions-orders-review-fbi-inaction-tip-shooter?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A%20tpm-news%20%28TPMNews%29

Who went after the FBI for inaction after receiving info about an Middle East guy taking flight lessons but only to fly a airliner, not to takeoff and land, in the context of "chatter" about "planes into buildings"?

[koriwhat]

racist Sessions, as Trash's personal DoJ, going after the FBI just like a good little politicized Repug asshole

Sessions Orders Review Of FBI Inaction On Tip About Suspected Florida Shooter

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/sessions-orders-review-fbi-inaction-tip-shooter?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A%20tpm-news%20%28TPMNews%29

Who went after the FBI for inaction after receiving info about an Middle East guy taking flight lessons but only to fly a airliner, not to takeoff and land, in the context of "chatter" about "planes into buildings"?

you're arguing over bush's admin? his family is best friends with the fuck face clinton's so you suppose they aren't one in the same? lmao!

[Chris]

Kevlar :tu

964992884608000000

[Chris]

:tu

965006724108357634

[Chris]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DWKiVS9WsAAehAs.jpg:large

[monosylab1k]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DWKiVS9WsAAehAs.jpg:large

Schools were also segregated when prayer was allowed, so maybe we need segregation again too, right?

[Chris]

Schools were also segregated when prayer was allowed, so maybe we need segregation again too, right?

Yes! We can segregate all the Liberals into a safe-space reservation (federally appropriated land) and build a wall around it. They can try their Socialism experiment out, and we can get back to business.

[monosylab1k]

Yes!

So Chris is pro-segregation. No surprise, just another shitty stance by the fakest Christian and most blatant closet queer here.

[boutons_deux]

Schools were also segregated when prayer was allowed, so maybe we need segregation again too, right?

and marginal tax rate at 70%, etc, etc.

Goddam, Chris, wetback Cucho, etc are goddam fucking stupid.

[Chris]

965005439841652737

[ducks]

https://scontent-lax3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/27867495_1641224895926381_8199415012731614422_n.jp g?efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&oh=0cd629cf1e418a8fe2a7a3932b2e699e&oe=5B13965B

[Spurminator]

965005439841652737

NFL player opinions good now.

Chris tweet trolling 17 dead kids for the lulz.

[Chris]

Chris tweet trolling 17 dead kids for the lulz.

Might be the dumbest thing I've ever read. I can see the idea of God in schools has triggered you full retard.

[pgardn]

Might be the dumbest thing I've ever read. I can see the idea of God in schools has triggered you full retard.

God is in the schools.
He is everywhere.

[midnightpulp]

I think the comparison to car licenses is very fair, almost too fair. I think something that gets lost in this debate is that guns have one purpose, to injure/kill. When someone dies from prescription drugs, car accidents, or even a kitchen knife, those objects are being used in a way that is NOT their crafted purpose.

At the very least, guns should be subject to the same access limitations as cars, but imo the framework around the limitation should be even stricter, like you pointed out in your "fuhrer" post

And speaking of licenses. What kind of dumbass society requires a license to play around with an amateur radio (a license that takes weeks to earn) but lets any Tom, Dick, and Harry walk into Walmart and emerge with a killing machine without much trouble?

I get it, "Land of the Free," and I agree there is something great about a free society that trusts one another enough to let its fellow citizens pursue whatever version of life, liberty, and happiness they choose (as long as said pursuit doesn't violate the freedom of others), but when the proverbial children start acting irresponsible, it's time for the parents to set some ground rules. These "ground rules" exist for anything else that can potentially cause social harm in the form of the many licenses you need to do just about anything dangerous, and even not dangerous, like HAM radio operation. And there even exists outright banning of activities that are reasonably safe, like online sports betting and online poker (both of which were unjustifiably banned when the bill in question was attached by a fundamentalist Senator to the Safe Port Act, something that had nothing to do with gambling). So to appeal to "Land of the Free," rings hollow.

"Fuhrer" :bang. Brainfarted the spelling in my OP. Good catch.

[Will Hunting]

God is in the schools.
He is everywhere.
This.

The god Chris worships decided that 17 innocent kids and teachers should die at the hands of a maniac. Pretty shitty tbh.

[Spurminator]

Might be the dumbest thing I've ever read. I can see the idea of God in schools has triggered you full retard.

The idea of someone using dead kids to try to trigger libs for the lulz has me sad for you.

[ducks]

Donald J. Trump realDonaldTrump
·
1h
Just like they don’t want to solve the DACA problem, why didn’t the Democrats pass gun control legislation when they had both the House & Senate during the Obama Administration. Because they didn’t want to, and now they just talk!

[Pavlov]

Trumpistas politicizing the shit out of those dead kids.

[ducks]

Legghette, a convicted felon, faces felony charges in the brazen shooting death, including first-degree murder and armed violence. He is being held without bond
Killed police officer in Chicago the toughest gun laws

[Chucho]

and marginal tax rate at 70%, etc, etc.

Goddam, Chris, wetback Cucho, etc are goddam fucking stupid.

LOL, mad.

[Chris]

965045496241950720

[Chris]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DWQ-03UVwAAB0AJ.jpg

[benfti]

equally bad argument, good guys with guns actually stop bad guys with guns whereas good guys with drugs don’t stop bad guys with drugs etc. it’s an apples and oranges comparison. Some things need to be banned and others don’t. Guns fall under dont. Guns are a tool for good or for bad unlike some things which are just simply bad.
WOW, you’re a fucking retard.

you really have one munted hampster up there and that bitch is smoking crack.

[DMC]

Schools were also segregated when prayer was allowed, so maybe we need segregation again too, right?

Prayer is still allowed. It's just not enforced or led by public employees. Anyone can pray. Anyone can also throw a tennis ball at the wall. The tennis ball at least has a return on effort.

[Blake]

964994156060868609

Lol

[ElNono]

:tu

965006724108357634

:lol











:lmao

[ElNono]

Prayer is still allowed. It's just not enforced or led by public employees. Anyone can pray. Anyone can also throw a tennis ball at the wall. The tennis ball at least has a return on effort.

:lol

[pgardn]

Prayer is still allowed. It's just not enforced or led by public employees. Anyone can pray. Anyone can also throw a tennis ball at the wall. The tennis ball at least has a return on effort.

No praying out loud during the moment of silence!

Also Chris would not be allowed to writhe, twitch or otherwise spasm out on the floor.

[Mark Celibate]

WOW, you’re a fucking retard.

you really have one munted hampster up there and that bitch is smoking crack.

look the foreign cuck is back with his highbrow cuckspeak trying to tell me how my country should be run. Go check your testosterone levels you sissy and kindly fuck off.

[pgardn]

look the foreign cuck is back with his highbrow cuckspeak trying to tell me how my country should be run. Go check your testosterone levels you sissy and kindly fuck off.

Being celibate I can infer you wanna keep this low. Or maybe just frustrate the crap out of yourself. Anyways, your control is to be admired as a feat of sheer will.

[Blake]

964724390637244417

Let's see who can't figure out why Trump is a huge dick here

[DMX7]

Those pictures are truly ridiculous. This guy is the closest thing to a real life cartoon character that there has ever been.

[DMX7]

Sarah dropping truth nukes -- fire and fury style -- on that clown.

http://proudemocrat.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/sarah.jpg

[Chris]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DWSU50ZW0AA0j2f.jpg:large

[Chris]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DWPh3fBVoAAIhX9.jpg:large

[Blake]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DWSU50ZW0AA0j2f.jpg:large



What are Trump's numbers, Bootlick?

[Blake]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DWPh3fBVoAAIhX9.jpg:large

Do you think about the pics you post or do you just pass along line a meme mule?

[Isitjustme?]

Prayer is still allowed. It's just not enforced or led by public employees. Anyone can pray. Anyone can also throw a tennis ball at the wall. The tennis ball at least has a return on effort.

:lmao :lmao

[Isitjustme?]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DWPh3fBVoAAIhX9.jpg:large

https://i.imgur.com/wRS7zeA.jpg

[Isitjustme?]

Japan tho :wow :wow

https://tse2.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.NY1RZZWHYeIHDeTm0SDevgEsDS&pid=15.1

[Pavlov]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DWPh3fBVoAAIhX9.jpg:largeSo there are ten countries in the entire world?

lol Cwis.

[benfti]

look the foreign cuck is back with his highbrow cuckspeak trying to tell me how my country should be run. Go check your testosterone levels you sissy and kindly fuck off.
No.

Your country is a fucking disaster because retards like you allowed to vote and own guns.

if you cunts can’t sort your shit out soon the rest of the world is going to have to file for power of attorney over y’all. You can’t be trusted anymore to do anything other than be giant wankers

[Pavlov]

So Trump went to a disco party after meeting survivors, medical personnel and LEOs.

And then melted down on twitter.

Defend that.

[ElNono]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DWPh3fBVoAAIhX9.jpg:large

Let's do a little math, so we understand what that graph is telling us.

40.29 people died for every 100,000 people in El Salvador. They have a population of 6.345 million, which means, total violent gun deaths in El Salvador in 2016 were: 6,345,000 / 100,000 = 63.45 * 40.29 = 2,557 deaths (rounded up)

3.85 people died for every 100,000 people in the USA. We have a population of 323 million (give or take), which means, total violent gun deaths in the US in 2016 were: 323,000,000 / 100,000 = 3,230 * 3.85 = 12,435 deaths (rounded down)

So, El Salvador certainly has a bigger per-capita rate, but the US had almost 5 times the number of deaths in the same period for the same type of incident.

Probably the reason they had to add that note at the bottom.

[boutons_deux]

The Florida Douglas High School Shooting Was an Anti-Semitic Hate Crime And Nobody’s Talking About It

What people fail to mention, however, is that

Douglas High School is more than 40% Jewish (http://www.chabad.org/news/article_cdo/aid/3943017/jewish/At-Least-17-Killed-in-Florida-High-School-Shooting.htm),

Cruz believed that Jews were part of a conspiracy to unseat white people from power, and the shooting was potentially an anti-Semitic hate crime.

Not only did Nikolas Cruz actively and openly hate Jews, not only does he have a history of making threats (https://nypost.com/2018/02/14/florida-school-shooting-suspect-is-troubled-former-student-obsessed-with-guns/)and committing acts of violence against Jewish students,

but he was part of a white supremacist organization called Republic of Florida Militia that self-identifies as (http://time.com/5161203/republic-of-florida-nikolas-cruz-white-supremacist-militia/) a “white civil rights organization” that fights for the “ultimate creation of a white ethnostate.”

Nikolas was a member of the ROF and participated in one or more of their “training drills” (https://nypost.com/2018/02/15/white-nationalist-militia-claims-florida-shooting-suspect-as-member/) to prepare for the possibility of an attack by people of color and Jews against white people.

https://medium.com/@natalielifson/the-florida-douglas-high-school-shooting-was-an-anti-semitic-hate-crime-e1977d46bcef

[Splits]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DWRjzukVMAApDaf?format=jpg&name=900x900

[boutons_deux]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DWRjzukVMAApDaf?format=jpg&name=900x900

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-las-vegas-shooting-live-updates-bill-o-reilly-calls-mass-shootings-the-1506980448-htmlstory.html

[DMC]

Japan tho :wow :wow

https://tse2.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.NY1RZZWHYeIHDeTm0SDevgEsDS&pid=15.1

"note, rankings compiled by the Japan Times"

[pgardn]

I don't rule out the idea of its having been a false flag.


Students At Florida School Shooting Report Crisis Drills and Multiple Shooters
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g67mCOP75sk

https://www.google.es/search?q=florida+school+shooting+false+flag&rlz=1C1AOHY_esES720ES730&source=lnms&tbm=vid&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjKoKbq86rZAhXCaxQKHSoSB4oQ_AUICigB&biw=1024&bih=677


The Las Vegas shooting seems to have been a false flag.

Forensic acoustic proof of SECOND shooter in the Las Vegas massacre
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxmEFeKy8aI


I think everyone knows what the theory is. The government wants to remove as many guns as possible from circulation before it declares marshal law. It may be planning to invade Iran or something else that the people will be against so it wants to be ready for marshal law. It will be a lot easier to remove the handguns if the majority of Americans want gun control.


If the government was able to kill three thousands Americans on September eleventh, its killing teenagers shouldn't be surprising to anyone.
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=261123&p=8610878&viewfull=1#post8610878


Oh oh here we go.
All those interviews images etc...
It was staged. And it was oh so easy to stage just like the moon landings.
Cosmo yet again show us that he prefers the most difficult path to a desired outcome is preferable.
cosmo was a needless c-section baby... He left the house thru the window when the front door was wide open.

[Isitjustme?]

"note, rankings compiled by the Japan Times"

Conspiracy!

[DMX7]

"note, rankings compiled by the Japan Times"

So? Are you disputing the numbers? Because the actual source info (the stats, not the rankings) is not from the Japan Times.


If a nation expects to be ignorant & free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be. - Thomas Jefferson

[pgardn]

Conspiracy!

Actually I just looked up homocides per 100,000 and got 4.8 for the US

Note that this rate was put next to a table citing gun deaths above. So is the homocides rate by guns... what is that 2nd column?
Homocide rate by gun?
0.05 per 100,000 homocide rate without a gun?
I thought strangling, beatings, knives, running people over with a car, would be a little higher. So I am confused.

[Spurminator]

It's always good to know that conservatives' bar for the USA is set at El Salvador.

[boutons_deux]

Let's do a little math, so we understand what that graph is telling us.



Fuck math

Compare US gun deaths with other industrial countries, not with lawless Zuid Afrika, Central America etc

[Pavlov]

964948699905429505

[Spurminator]

964948699905429505

Simpler times: https://www.politico.com/story/2009/05/gop-takes-aim-at-obamas-nyc-trip-023122

[DMC]

So? Are you disputing the numbers? Because the actual source info (the stats, not the rankings) is not from the Japan Times.

Ever heard of the Japanese secrecy law?

People want the good numbers from Japan but this country would go off the rails if our justice system operated like theirs. You cannot have the rain without having the wet.

[boutons_deux]

Shooter cut himself and drew a Nazi symbol on his book bag, but DCF found him to be stable

Nikolas Cruz had just broken up with his girlfriend, who had been cheating on him, and he’d gotten into a fight with another boy.

He’d drawn a “Nazi symbol” on his book bag.

And Broward mental health authorities were worried that his chronic depression was worsening.

It was Sept. 28, 2016, and Cruz — who since has admitted to perpetrating one of the worst school shootings in U.S. history, Wednesday’s massacre at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High — took to his arms with a knife.

“Mr. Cruz was on Snapchat cutting both of his arms,”

the Florida Department of Children & Families’ abuse hotline was told at 1:48 p.m.

“Mr. Cruz has fresh cuts on both his arms. Mr. Cruz stated he plans to go out and buy a gun.”

In the report, Cruz, then 18, was listed as an “alleged victim” of medical neglect and inadequate supervision; his mother, 68-year-old Lynda Cruz, the “alleged perpetrator.”

DCF’s investigation was completed that Nov. 12. The agency concluded that Cruz had not been mistreated by his mother, that he was receiving adequate care from a counselor at Henderson Mental Health, and was attending school.

“Henderson came out and assessed the [victim and] found him to be stable enough not to be hospitalized,”

the report said. More detailed chronological notes of the investigation show the case ended with a notation that

“no services are recommended.”

The investigator, the report said,

“was not able to see any scars or cuts on the [victim’s] arms because he was wearing long sleeves.” :lol

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/broward/article200692514.html

[Isitjustme?]

Actually I just looked up homocides per 100,000 and got 4.8 for the US

Note that this rate was put next to a table citing gun deaths above. So is the homocides rate by guns... what is that 2nd column?
Homocide rate by gun?
0.05 per 100,000 homocide rate without a gun?
I thought strangling, beatings, knives, running people over with a car, would be a little higher. So I am confused.

Japan has no guns. Homicide is overall i think

[Spurminator]

Japan has no guns. Homicide is overall i think

Correction, only Japanese criminals have guns, because they wanted them bad enough and found a way to get them.

[monosylab1k]

Correction, only Japanese criminals have guns, because they wanted them bad enough and found a way to get them.

Well clearly Japan should just abandon all gun laws if a few bad guys still find a way to get them.

[Spurminator]

Well clearly Japan should just abandon all gun laws if a few bad guys still find a way to get them.

Makes sense to me. Also they need God in schools.

[Spurtacular]

Just ban automatic and semi automatic weapons you fuckstick. There is zero reason other than being a mouth breathing dumbfuck to own one

:lmao I can think of 17 reasons right now.

[Spurtacular]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DWSU50ZW0AA0j2f.jpg:large

:wow :wow :wow :wow :wow :wow :wow :wow :wow :wow :wow :wow :wow

:wow :wow :wow :wow :wow :wow :wow :wow :wow :wow :wow :wow :wow

[Spurtacular]

964948699905429505

Yea, imagine Americans being shot up in war-like terror maneuvers and a president flying out to Vegas. Amirite?

[Pavlov]

:wow :wow :wow :wow :wow :wow :wow :wow :wow :wow :wow :wow :wow

:wow :wow :wow :wow :wow :wow :wow :wow :wow :wow :wow :wow :wowYou believe that?

lol


Yea, imagine Americans being shot up in war-like terror maneuvers and a president flying out to Vegas. Amirite?Vegas where the Vegas shooting happened?

Explain what you're trying to be snarky about.

[Chris]

965305637864427521

[Pavlov]

965305637864427521So Chicago needs moar guns?

[Chris]

965313550586712066

[Pavlov]

965313550586712066So those cities need moar guns?

[Blake]

What happened to your educatingliberals buddy, Chris?

[Blake]

So those cities need moar guns?

Too busy memeing to type actual words

[Chris]

So those cities need moar guns?

Less Democrats.