Spurs Trade Rumor Thread (Spurs eyeing Collins, Osman? Fielding calls on Jak?)

[Dverde]

Markieff Morris averages 7.7 PPG. I assume you mean Marcus, who's over 30 and we had that story before.
Tobias Harris is on the worst contract in the NBA besides Westbrook and worse defensively
Gallinari is old as dirt
Siakam shoots 7% worse from 3 and earns 10 million more per year than Collins
Wood I agree with. Grant is another one I'd like. Probably even a better fit skill wise than Collins. That's about it

it's also not about guys getting 16/7 (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/x-apple-data-detectors://1). It's about them being able to somewhat protect the rim and 3-point shooting. Besides that Collins with a lilttle bit more usage is a 20/10 (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/x-apple-data-detectors://2), not a 16/7 (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/x-apple-data-detectors://3) guy.

Yeah, the other Morris. None of those guys played with Trae Young either. I’m more saying I see nothing special besides another Christian Wood. Good player to have, but isn’t good enough to transform a franchise. We wouldn’t be getting him cheap and if he wanted to be here he could have signed with us in the off-season.

[exstatic]

Off top my head bigs that shoot threes who can score 16 points and get 7-8 boards. Is he a good defender? I’ve only seen him a handful of times, and wasn’t that impressed. He’s already on a big contract.
Pascal Siakim
Danilo Gallinari
Christian Wood
Markieff Morris
Tobias Harris

Galinari isn’t the rebounder or defender that Collins is, and he’s 33
Wood is a center. He meets the other requirements, but isn’t a PF. We’ve got too many Cs on the roster already.
I will save you the embarrassment of commenting on Markief. Not even close, and 32
Tobias Harris checks a lot of the boxes, but isn’t the rebounder or shotblocker that Collins is. He’s 29.

[RC_Drunkford]

Yeah, the other Morris. None of those guys played with Trae Young either. I’m more saying I see nothing special besides another Christian Wood. Good player to have, but isn’t good enough to transform a franchise. We wouldn’t be getting him cheap and if he wanted to be here he could have signed with us in the off-season.

he obviously won't transform a franchise, but who exactly is your target out there to do that? I don't see anybody. It's about improving the team and adding neccessary pieces while making sure they fit the timeline.

[R. DeMurre]

I think it's a mistake to think of Collins as a legit 20/10 guy. He did it once and the Hawks were 20-47 that year. In the last two seasons, he has been a 17/7+ guy, and last year in the playoffs he was more like 14/8+. Historically when the Hawks are more Collins-centric, they get worse, not better.

[exstatic]

Yeah, the other Morris. None of those guys played with Trae Young either. I’m more saying I see nothing special besides another Christian Wood. Good player to have, but isn’t good enough to transform a franchise. We wouldn’t be getting him cheap and if he wanted to be here he could have signed with us in the off-season.

He was restricted last summer.

Christian Wood is a center, strictly. They don’t play him with Sengun, and that would be a good combo if they could.

[Dverde]

he obviously won't transform a franchise, but who exactly is your target out there to do that? I don't see anybody. It's about improving the team and adding neccessary pieces while making sure they fit the timeline.

You’re right as in there is nobody except maybe a rehabilitated Ben Simmons is out there to really change the course. We gotta build through the draft like Cleveland and others have done. John Collins seems to be the new Otto Porter Jr on Spurstalk with people giving metics on how great he is. He gets us a little better, but we are still a first round playoff team with him.

[Chinook]

Wood is a head case. Collins does have some red flags (more his father getting into the beef with Young than the two of them just not getting along), but I don't think he's any less of a Spur than Aldridge was in terms of temperament. Gallo has always been an injury risk. He was a good player and is still decent when healthy, but he's not in Collins' league given his realities. Harris is a guy in a vacuum I'd be fine taking on the Spurs, but his contract requires the Spurs send out at least White, McD and Young to make salary match. He's a good player who makes so much money that the Spurs shouldn't "prefer him" to Collins. Last summer when the team had Aminu and Hutch to throw into a deal? Maybe. Now he's too expensive.

[Dverde]

He was restricted last summer.

Christian Wood is a center, strictly. They don’t play him with Sengun, and that would be a good combo if they could.

Asshat he was restricted which means he could have signed with us and the Hawks could have matched it, but he didn’t and quickly signed with ATL, so your point is dumb, so dumb like your post about Spurs being smarter on Covid.

[Dverde]

Wood is a head case. Collins does have some red flags (more his father getting into the beef with Young than the two of them just not getting along), but I don't think he's any less of a Spur than Aldridge was in terms of temperament. Gallo has always been an injury risk. He was a good player and is still decent when healthy, but he's not in Collins' league given his realities. Harris is a guy in a vacuum I'd be fine taking on the Spurs, but his contract requires the Spurs send out at least White, McD and Young to make salary match. He's a good player who makes so much money that the Spurs shouldn't "prefer him" to Collins. Last summer when the team had Aminu and Hutch to throw into a deal? Maybe. Now he's too expensive.

I get that Collins may some better stats and more upside most those I mentioned. I more was throwing up a group of similar players who can do generally the same thing. Julius Randle is another one…he shot 41% from three last year, he’s terrible this year. I just don’t see Collins as a “max salary” player that greatly changed our trajectory.

[Chinook]

You’re right as in there is nobody except maybe a rehabilitated Ben Simmons is out there to really change the course. We gotta build through the draft like Cleveland and others have done. John Collins seems to be the new Otto Porter Jr on Spurstalk with people giving metics on how great he is. He gets us a little better, but we are still a first round playoff team with him.

We don't know what Cleveland is at this point, whether they are a first-round team or not. Collins makes so little money that he doesn't HAVE to be the guy. There's a legit path for Murray to get renegotiated to make more than Collins will. That he's locked into a non-star rate for four years after this one is a crazy-good deal.

I see acquiring him more as the Spurs getting a second "good" player. Right now, I only have Murray as someone who's secure in his spot on a winning team. I think Vassell can be such a guy, and I have hope for Primo. Right now, besides Murray, the team has the aforementioned prospects and guys who go between JAG and replaceable. Getting Collins for White and a protected first doesn't prevent the Spurs from drafting players, and it may not lock them out of hitting up free agency or the trade market for someone who can supercharge the rest of the roster and make guys like Vassell and Poeltl go from undecided/replaceable to valuable starters on a dark-horse contender. It's possible but unlikely that the team will draft superstars, especially close together where they can develop into contenders before they break up. Cleveland doesn't look like it's there, and we don't know how much they'll develop and if they can do before Garland or Allen get to the end of their contracts.

I'm not opposed to the team trying to strike while they have Murray, especially if they keep most of their natural picks. They aren't likely going to set themselves back by losing a protected 2023 pick. If they have to play for guys drafted in a few years, it'll likely be after the Murray era is over. I'd rather see them make a couple of conservative trades like Phoenix did rather than try to repeat what the Cavs are doing.

[exstatic]

Asshat he was restricted which means he could have signed with us and the Hawks could have matched it, but he didn’t and quickly signed with ATL, so your point is dumb, so dumb like your post about Spurs being smarter on Covid.

I’ll take you lack of discussion on people crushing your Collins comps and ad hominem attack as concession that you have no point to make.

Spurs normally don’t chase restricted FAs. In addition, ATL can start him at a higher salary, and can given him bigger raises. They didn’t want to lose him for nothing, and he probably wanted those Bird FA signing perks. That didn’t end the other underlying issues, so even if there was no explicit agreement on trading him, there was probably an underlying assumption that it probably would happen at some point.

[Dverde]

We don't know what Cleveland is at this point, whether they are a first-round team or not. Collins makes so little money that he doesn't HAVE to be the guy. There's a legit path for Murray to get renegotiated to make more than Collins will. That he's locked into a non-star rate for four years after this one is a crazy-good deal.

I see acquiring him more as the Spurs getting a second "good" player. Right now, I only have Murray as someone who's secure in his spot on a winning team. I think Vassell can be such a guy, and I have hope for Primo. Right now, besides Murray, the team has the aforementioned prospects and guys who go between JAG and replaceable. Getting Collins for White and a protected first doesn't prevent the Spurs from drafting players, and it may not lock them out of hitting up free agency or the trade market for someone who can supercharge the rest of the roster and make guys like Vassell and Poeltl go from undecided/replaceable to valuable starters on a dark-horse contender. It's possible but unlikely that the team will draft superstars, especially close together where they can develop into contenders before they break up. Cleveland doesn't look like it's there, and we don't know how much they'll develop and if they can do before Garland or Allen get to the end of their contracts.

I'm not opposed to the team trying to strike while they have Murray, especially if they keep most of their natural picks. They aren't likely going to set themselves back by losing a protected 2023 pick. If they have to play for guys drafted in a few years, it'll likely be after the Murray era is over. I'd rather see them make a couple of conservative trades like Phoenix did rather than try to repeat what the Cavs are doing.

I agree with almost all that. More saying Spurs need to hit on a top 5 draft pick to properly rebuild. Sorry, I saw some DJ for Collins talk and got triggered. You only deal for Collins if Dejounte in running with him.

[Chinook]

I agree with almost all that. More saying Spurs need to hit on a top 5 draft pick to properly rebuild. Sorry, I saw some DJ for Collins talk and got triggered. You only deal for Collins if Dejounte in running with him.

Yes. I wouldn't have said that this past summer, but White hasn't shown the growth/stability I had hoped. I haven't completely changed my stance on moving Murray, but I don't think they should even think about it until the draft when they know what they're getting. If they move him, it's to completely rebuild, not to tech around White.

My hope is for the Collins issue to stay unresolved this season while the Spurs continue to lose their way to a top pick. Then they can draft whichever player with that pick and then trade White/McD and some future draft capital for Collins before going into free agency with a max slot to put around those guys. It's mathematically possible, but it would require a lot of finesse and likely extra draft compensation compared to trading for him this year or using actual cap space next summer.

Just to be clear, I also like a number of the PFs in the draft, from the little I've seen of them. The Spurs certainly can rebuild through the draft and then consider trading Murray in the summer of 2023 if it's looking like he'd want to move on. I think I said in a post yesterday that there are moves I'd like them to make in whichever path they take. Me advocating a move in a win-now path doesn't mean I don't have an interest in the draft path.

[Dverde]

Yes. I wouldn't have said that this past summer, but White hasn't shown the growth/stability I had hoped. I haven't completely changed my stance on moving Murray, but I don't think they should even think about it until the draft when they know what they're getting. If they move him, it's to completely rebuild, not to tech around White.

My hope is for the Collins issue to stay unresolved this season while the Spurs continue to lose their way to a top pick. Then they can draft whichever player with that pick and then trade White/McD and some future draft capital for Collins before going into free agency with a max slot to put around those guys. It's mathematically possible, but it would require a lot of finesse and likely extra draft compensation compared to trading for him this year or using actual cap space next summer.

Just to be clear, I also like a number of the PFs in the draft, from the little I've seen of them. The Spurs certainly can rebuild through the draft and then consider trading Murray in the summer of 2023 if it's looking like he'd want to move on. I think I said in a post yesterday that there are moves I'd like them to make in whichever path they take. Me advocating a move in a win-now path doesn't mean I don't have an interest in the draft path.

Great analysis. Thank you! Exstatic is still an asshat.

[acoelho1]

The Spurs problem is they don't have a consistent 20pt scorer that can create for himself when the offense gets bogged down. I was hoping White or even Walker would be that guy but both have disappointed. I'm not crazy about the Collins trade and don't see him as moving us any step closer to making this a playoff team. I think we should hold on to our assets and use White as trade bait to move up in the draft, like they did with George Hill to get Leonard. We still need a dynamic big wing to round out this roster. No way I make any Murray trade given that he hasn't reached his ceiling and we would probably only get draft assets and flawed players in return.

[Atl Spur]

This year is a red shirt year; next year we will compete for real.

[Collins21]

As a neutral observer it does appear that Dejounte has some weird obsession with you. It's like he has to go out of his way to prove you wrong it's started to become cringeworthy.

[MannyIsGod]

Interesting that the 3 main guys with the most trade value on this team were all benched tonight. First time anyone's really been benched for "rest" this season and it comes now as trade talks are high.

[tbdog]

If the Spurs moved this year’s pick for overrated John Collins, I’d be pretty damn pissed tbh. Have to think PATFO are smarter than that though. I hope.

And needless to say, moving Murray for Collins and his shitty attitude would be incredibly fucking stupid and a disaster unless Murray makes it abundantly clear he won’t be re-signing here in 2 years.

Yes. But it'll cost more.

[John B]

Interesting that the 3 main guys with the most trade value on this team were all benched tonight. First time anyone's really been benched for "rest" this season and it comes now as trade talks are high.

They should’ve rested Thad too. But seriously, it’s interesting. I don’t see Murray ever getting moved, and maybe not Poeltl. But I have a feeling White would be for the right piece, maybe Collins. I think it’s time to play Primo alongside Murray at 2 and build that chemistry together. Tre has shown he can be a reliable backup at PG. I like White, but Collins >>> White, period. The pnr could suffer without White, that’s why they have to start Primo to help facilitate instead of Vassell, just imo.

[exstatic]

I wonder if Utah would be interested in McD. Ingles appears to have suffered a serious knee injury.

[UnWantedTheory]

As a neutral observer it does appear that Dejounte has some weird obsession with you. It's like he has to go out of his way to prove you wrong it's started to become cringeworthy.
I noticed the same. The dude takes what he says out context more often than not. It's like he either doesn't understand or he intentionally twists what he says just to argue. I may not always agree with Chinook but he almost always comes across as reasonable. The other dude, though otherwise a solid contributor, seems like a 20's something who misses his meds from time to time.

[KingKev]

I wonder if Utah would be interested in McD. Ingles appears to have suffered a serious knee injury.

Bad timing for him entering free agency at 34. Jazz already rumoured not to be bringing him back. Jazz are
over the cap and slumping so not sure they’d want to take
on long term money but if we could turn McD into an FRP i’d do it. Ingles’ expiring and a future first for McD

[KingKev]

They should’ve rested Thad too. But seriously, it’s interesting. I don’t see Murray ever getting moved, and maybe not Poeltl. But I have a feeling White would be for the right piece, maybe Collins. I think it’s time to play Primo alongside Murray at 2 and build that chemistry together. Tre has shown he can be a reliable backup at PG. I like White, but Collins >>> White, period. The pnr could suffer without White, that’s why they have to start Primo to help facilitate instead of Vassell, just imo.

Thad has been resting all season and didn’t play at all. Highly doubt DJ/Murray/Jak out was due to a trade brewing.

[Dejounte]

As a neutral observer it does appear that Dejounte has some weird obsession with you. It's like he has to go out of his way to prove you wrong it's started to become cringeworthy.


I noticed the same. The dude takes what he says out context more often than not. It's like he either doesn't understand or he intentionally twists what he says just to argue. I may not always agree with Chinook but he almost always comes across as reasonable. The other dude, though otherwise a solid contributor, seems like a 20's something who misses his meds from time to time.

Thanks for chiming in. I really wanted to know your thoughts. This isn’t a popularity contest for me. Chinook knows my stance by now (despite his dismissive facade), and while his last post is utterly nonsense, I won’t reply “just to argue”.

[exstatic]

Bad timing for him entering free agency at 34. Jazz already rumoured not to be bringing him back. Jazz are
over the cap and slumping so not sure they’d want to take
on long term money but if we could turn McD into an FRP i’d do it. Ingles’ expiring and a future first for McD

The S&T with Indy involved a SRP swap in 2023, where both picks are protected 31-55, and neither will likely convey, and an incoming 2026 SRP. In this case, just to rent that salary spot for most of a season, I’d take a SRP from Utah. That would net us 2 SRPs, one on each end of the transaction. With their salary situation,I can’t see them parting with a FRP.

[KingKev]

The S&T with Indy involved a SRP swap in 2023, where both picks are protected 31-55, and neither will likely convey, and an incoming 2026 SRP. In this case, just to rent that salary spot for most of a season, I’d take a SRP from Utah. That would net us 2 SRPs, one on each end of the transaction. With their salary situation,I can’t see them parting with a FRP.

Good points. An FRP would be a stretch.

[buttsR4rebounding]

Good points. An FRP would be a stretch.

Just moving McD’s contract would be a huge benefit IMO.

[Atl Spur]

Shooting is an asset, Doug can be moved anytime.

[exstatic]

Shooting is an asset, Doug can be moved anytime.

He could. The problem with a hypothetical Utah trade is that they were probably going to let ingles roll off this summer, but McD has two more years. On the face of it, his contract isn’t bad, but if you’re a taxpayer, it might be too much.

[LeBowen]

Utah doesn't need McDermott, they don't have any spacing issues.
They need perimeter defense.

[exstatic]

Utah doesn't need McDermott, they don't have any spacing issues.
They need perimeter defense.

Did you read the part where Ingles just suffered a serious knee issue in yesterday’s game?

[LeBowen]

Did you read the part where Ingles just suffered a serious knee issue in yesterday’s game?

Yeah I did.
Except for O'Neale and maybe Conley who's 35, everyone on their roster is an awful perimeter defender.
When Gobert was out they legit looked like the worst defensive team in the league.

Last summer they were shopping Bogdanovic and Ingles, tried to get some positive defenders in.
Their offense is amazing, everyone except Gobert is a good 3pt shooter. They need to improve defensively if they're to make a deep playoff run.

Ingles injury puts them in a really bad position, but they won't take another awful defender.

[KingKev]

Torn ACL for Ingles. Probably it for his career. Don’t wish injury on anyone but he had Spurs off-season signing written all over him so some relief there at least.

[Leetonidas]

Jazz are fucked. Mitchell is going to bolt the first chance he gets. Good thing for them that won't be for 3 years but wouldn't be surprised at all to hear he is the next star demanding out

[BatManu20]

Yea Mitchell’s gone. The writing’s on the wall. Utah isn’t going to contend anytime soon and reports are he’s been wanting out for a year or two now.

Could easily see a team like the Knicks getting desperate and overpaying for him in a trade.

[buttsR4rebounding]

Article from Hoopshype

While we’ve all constantly heard big names like Ben Simmons and James Harden included in trade rumors over the last few weeks, it’s more likely that the players who are traded will make an impact around the edges. It’s exciting to think about Damian Lillard or Bradley Beal in new uniforms, but typically, it’s the role players who are on the ones most often swapped.

As such, we’ve surveyed the league to find three of the most intriguing players who could realistically be soon on their way to a new destination once the deadline arrives. Each of these players projects as someone who could have a positive impact no matter where they wind up.

Derrick White (San Antonio)

Daniel Dunn-USA TODAY Sports

If the season ended today, the San Antonio Spurs would miss the playoffs. However, not all hope is lost considering that they’ve gotten amazing productivity out of their backcourt duo of Dejounte Murray and Derrick White.

So it’s no surprise that, according to ESPN’s Zach Lowe, rival teams are calling the Spurs to inquire about White. One potential suitor for White is the Atlanta Hawks, per Bleacher Report’s Jake Fischer.

The main reason why the Hawks are such an interesting fit for White is his defense. Among all players who have defended at least 20 shots at the rim so far this season, per PBPStats, the two players who have allowed the highest field-goal percentage both play in the backcourt for the Hawks: Lou Williams (90.9 percent) and Trae Young (87.1 percent).

However, it’s really hard to score against White near the basket. Opponents are currently shooting just 50.4 percent against White at the rim, which ranks sixth-best in the league among those who have defended as many shots as he has in that zone. It’s also the best mark among non-bigs, trailing only players like Rudy Gobert and Giannis Antetkounmpo.

White is actually contesting more shots per game (7.3) than big men including Bam Adebayo, Wendell Carter Jr. and Jusuf Nurkic. Watch the way he defended Jayson Tatum and you’ll see the way he contributes to his team:


Another reason why the Hawks make sense is because Atlanta has the least efficient transition defense in the league this season, which is an area in which White can immediately help. Opponents are averaging 1.9 fewer points per 100 possessions in transition when White is on the floor relative to when he is not, via Cleaning the Glass.

Meanwhile, also per CTG, White’s block percentage ranks in the 99th percentile among players at his position. His block percentage has never finished below the 97th percentile relative to his position.

On the offensive side of the floor, White is currently one of the league’s leaders in percentage of passes that were an assist. This suggests great playmaking instincts and a willingness to be deferential, which will help him play alongside another high-volume guard, no matter if it’s Young or a guard who plays for a different suitor.

The Spurs almost never make trades, especially not during the season. You won’t find many examples outside of Nando De Colo (2014) and Brent Barry (2008). However, they bucked that trend by recently trading Bryn Forbes — perhaps they would be willing to do it again.

[BackHome]

Show me the Money.$$$$

[The Truth #6]

Article from Hoopshype

While we’ve all constantly heard big names like Ben Simmons and James Harden included in trade rumors over the last few weeks, it’s more likely that the players who are traded will make an impact around the edges. It’s exciting to think about Damian Lillard or Bradley Beal in new uniforms, but typically, it’s the role players who are on the ones most often swapped.

As such, we’ve surveyed the league to find three of the most intriguing players who could realistically be soon on their way to a new destination once the deadline arrives. Each of these players projects as someone who could have a positive impact no matter where they wind up.

Derrick White (San Antonio)

Daniel Dunn-USA TODAY Sports

If the season ended today, the San Antonio Spurs would miss the playoffs. However, not all hope is lost considering that they’ve gotten amazing productivity out of their backcourt duo of Dejounte Murray and Derrick White.

So it’s no surprise that, according to ESPN’s Zach Lowe, rival teams are calling the Spurs to inquire about White. One potential suitor for White is the Atlanta Hawks, per Bleacher Report’s Jake Fischer.

The main reason why the Hawks are such an interesting fit for White is his defense. Among all players who have defended at least 20 shots at the rim so far this season, per PBPStats, the two players who have allowed the highest field-goal percentage both play in the backcourt for the Hawks: Lou Williams (90.9 percent) and Trae Young (87.1 percent).

However, it’s really hard to score against White near the basket. Opponents are currently shooting just 50.4 percent against White at the rim, which ranks sixth-best in the league among those who have defended as many shots as he has in that zone. It’s also the best mark among non-bigs, trailing only players like Rudy Gobert and Giannis Antetkounmpo.

White is actually contesting more shots per game (7.3) than big men including Bam Adebayo, Wendell Carter Jr. and Jusuf Nurkic. Watch the way he defended Jayson Tatum and you’ll see the way he contributes to his team:


Another reason why the Hawks make sense is because Atlanta has the least efficient transition defense in the league this season, which is an area in which White can immediately help. Opponents are averaging 1.9 fewer points per 100 possessions in transition when White is on the floor relative to when he is not, via Cleaning the Glass.

Meanwhile, also per CTG, White’s block percentage ranks in the 99th percentile among players at his position. His block percentage has never finished below the 97th percentile relative to his position.

On the offensive side of the floor, White is currently one of the league’s leaders in percentage of passes that were an assist. This suggests great playmaking instincts and a willingness to be deferential, which will help him play alongside another high-volume guard, no matter if it’s Young or a guard who plays for a different suitor.

The Spurs almost never make trades, especially not during the season. You won’t find many examples outside of Nando De Colo (2014) and Brent Barry (2008). However, they bucked that trend by recently trading Bryn Forbes — perhaps they would be willing to do it again.

Interesting article. Shows that White is undervalued. Yet who on the Hawks? J Collins makes too much. Seems like it would have to be a bigger move. And maybe the Hawks players are overrated? I mean, they shouldn’t be this bad.

[Mr. Body]

White is a terrific player, despite his shooting struggles. My main concern is his health. If the FO can get a player or players potentially better than him, I'd be up for it, but certainly not to move him just because.

[tonight...you]

Asshat he was restricted which means he could have signed with us and the Hawks could have matched it, but he didn’t and quickly signed with ATL, so your point is dumb, so dumb like your post about Spurs being smarter on Covid.
Spurs probably believed that ATL was going to trade this guy during the season and they might rather see if they can negotiate a deal while maintaining a better cap situation as ATL pays him less than they would have to than just going and overpaying for old boy to a contract he definitely does not deserve.

Now we see if that kind of thinking works, or if everything was a dance that went nowhere.

[CGD]

Interesting article. Shows that White is undervalued. Yet who on the Hawks? J Collins makes too much. Seems like it would have to be a bigger move. And maybe the Hawks players are overrated? I mean, they shouldn’t be this bad.

Definitely think that on other board their is simultaneously an underrating of Derrick and overrating of Jollins. I’ll concede that the latter is “better” if not just bc of his age, but it’s not a serviceable player + 2 firsts on top of Derrick gulf.

[Chinook]

Definitely think that on other board their is simultaneously an underrating of Derrick and overrating of Jollins. I’ll concede that the latter is “better” if not just bc of his age, but it’s not a serviceable player + 2 firsts on top of Derrick gulf.

I think more people on the board are unwilling to give any picks than are willing to give more than one pick. The only way I'd give up more than a protected 2023 pick is if ATL is eating McD. Even then I wouldn't be happy. At least the team could try for a Young-for-Dragic trade to balance their roster if they didn't use Thad in a Collins deal. But I think if White for Collins required the Spurs to give up multiple picks, the Hawks and Spurs aren't talking about a deal anymore.

[BackHome]

Jazz are fucked. Mitchell is going to bolt the first chance he gets. Good thing for them that won't be for 3 years but wouldn't be surprised at all to hear he is the next star demanding out

Yeah, the Jazz are stuck in Neutral and going no where also sucks for the Nuggets they just lost Porter for the season for back issues...Again - and they signed him to a 5 year contract that was crazzzzy. I am so glad we didn't draft him as I know some people wanted him but can't be made of glass and play in the NBA and if you have a bad back pretty much your glass

[exstatic]

Yeah, the Jazz are stuck in Neutral and going no where also sucks for the Nuggets they just lost Porter for the season for back issues...Again - and they signed him to a 5 year contract that was crazzzzy. I am so glad we didn't draft him as I know some people wanted him but can't be made of glass and play in the NBA and if you have a bad back pretty much your glass

Denver was stupid for drafting him, and doubly stupid for paying him as much as they did. I think he’s probably going to be out of the league after this contract.

Blowing off medical red flags almost always bites you in the ass. MPJ has had two back surgeries, and he’s only 23.

[RC_Drunkford]

Ingles being out for the season most likely means the Jazz will get an injured player exception. They are also a team that could use Thad. Cleveland got one as well. They are also shopping next years 1st alongside Rubio. Walker and McDermott would make sense for them

[Chinook]

Ingles being out for the season most likely means the Jazz will get an injured player exception. They are also a team that could use Thad. Cleveland got one as well. They are also shopping next years 1st alongside Rubio. Walker and McDermott would make sense for them

DPE's are for half the salary of the injured player. They don't have enough for Young, though they might do a straight trade if they didn't intend to re-sign Ingles.

[ace3g]

Ingles being out for the season most likely means the Jazz will get an injured player exception. They are also a team that could use Thad. Cleveland got one as well. They are also shopping next years 1st alongside Rubio. Walker and McDermott would make sense for them

I read this earlier today:

Ingles is in the final year of his current contract. The Jazz are unable to use a disabled player exception to sign a replacement, ESPN's Bobby Marks reports, as the deadline for such an exception has passed. Utah has two open roster spots available and a $7.5 million trade exception, per Marks.5 hours ago

[exstatic]

I read this earlier today:

Ingles is in the final year of his current contract. The Jazz are unable to use a disabled player exception to sign a replacement, ESPN's Bobby Marks reports, as the deadline for such an exception has passed. Utah has two open roster spots available and a $7.5 million trade exception, per Marks.5 hours ago

I tried a quick and dirty straight dump of JHG ($6.1M) into their trade exception, and it doesn’t work, because they’re a tax payers.

[lmbebo]

Article from Hoopshype

While we’ve all constantly heard big names like Ben Simmons and James Harden included in trade rumors over the last few weeks, it’s more likely that the players who are traded will make an impact around the edges. It’s exciting to think about Damian Lillard or Bradley Beal in new uniforms, but typically, it’s the role players who are on the ones most often swapped.

As such, we’ve surveyed the league to find three of the most intriguing players who could realistically be soon on their way to a new destination once the deadline arrives. Each of these players projects as someone who could have a positive impact no matter where they wind up.

Derrick White (San Antonio)

Daniel Dunn-USA TODAY Sports

If the season ended today, the San Antonio Spurs would miss the playoffs. However, not all hope is lost considering that they’ve gotten amazing productivity out of their backcourt duo of Dejounte Murray and Derrick White.

So it’s no surprise that, according to ESPN’s Zach Lowe, rival teams are calling the Spurs to inquire about White. One potential suitor for White is the Atlanta Hawks, per Bleacher Report’s Jake Fischer.

The main reason why the Hawks are such an interesting fit for White is his defense. Among all players who have defended at least 20 shots at the rim so far this season, per PBPStats, the two players who have allowed the highest field-goal percentage both play in the backcourt for the Hawks: Lou Williams (90.9 percent) and Trae Young (87.1 percent).

However, it’s really hard to score against White near the basket. Opponents are currently shooting just 50.4 percent against White at the rim, which ranks sixth-best in the league among those who have defended as many shots as he has in that zone. It’s also the best mark among non-bigs, trailing only players like Rudy Gobert and Giannis Antetkounmpo.

White is actually contesting more shots per game (7.3) than big men including Bam Adebayo, Wendell Carter Jr. and Jusuf Nurkic. Watch the way he defended Jayson Tatum and you’ll see the way he contributes to his team:


Another reason why the Hawks make sense is because Atlanta has the least efficient transition defense in the league this season, which is an area in which White can immediately help. Opponents are averaging 1.9 fewer points per 100 possessions in transition when White is on the floor relative to when he is not, via Cleaning the Glass.

Meanwhile, also per CTG, White’s block percentage ranks in the 99th percentile among players at his position. His block percentage has never finished below the 97th percentile relative to his position.

On the offensive side of the floor, White is currently one of the league’s leaders in percentage of passes that were an assist. This suggests great playmaking instincts and a willingness to be deferential, which will help him play alongside another high-volume guard, no matter if it’s Young or a guard who plays for a different suitor.

The Spurs almost never make trades, especially not during the season. You won’t find many examples outside of Nando De Colo (2014) and Brent Barry (2008). However, they bucked that trend by recently trading Bryn Forbes — perhaps they would be willing to do it again.


ATL wants him... nothing about the Spurs shopping him. Doubt anything happens.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Interesting article. Shows that White is undervalued. Yet who on the Hawks? J Collins makes too much. Seems like it would have to be a bigger move. And maybe the Hawks players are overrated? I mean, they shouldn’t be this bad.

White for Bogdanovic seems a fair deal.

White would also be a good fit on the Celtics, Cavs and Jazz.

[The Truth #6]

White, Jak, and Thad, even Walker. I’m hoping they could be part of a bigger move, but that’s inherently more challenging.

[Ocotillo]

NBA radio today they were saying Randle might be shipped out. Derrick and Lonnie match up with his salary. Thibs would love Derrick. Primo comes up to the big boy club for the rest of the season.

[KingKev]

NBA radio today they were saying Randle might be shipped out. Derrick and Lonnie match up with his salary. Thibs would love Derrick. Primo comes up to the big boy club for the rest of the season.

Fk no. I don’t even care for White and they can have Walker for free but we could do better.

[Degoat]

I think Dwhites never getting traded imo, he now embodies Spurs culture. He’ll be the new and improved Patty mills for the spurs

[KingKev]

I think Dwhites never getting traded imo, he now embodies Spurs culture. He’ll be the new and improved Patty mills for the spurs

Holy fk. Spurs talk needs to stop comparing current players to past Spurs greats. The only thing D White embodies of Spurs past is Kyle Anderson. White is a 30% 3pt shooter with 0 leadership skills. He isn’t Patty, he isn’t the reincarnation of Ginobilli off the bench and him and Anderson are equals at this point. He is Derrick White; an above average defender who can’t shoot.

Ginobilli isn’t going to magically reincarnate himself into Walker, White or anyone else on this roster no matter what title PATFO gives him.

[Leetonidas]

Holy fk. Spurs talk needs to stop comparing current players to past Spurs greats. The only thing D White embodies of Spurs past is Kyle Anderson. White is a 30% 3pt shooter with 0 leadership skills. He isn’t Patty, he isn’t the reincarnation of Ginobilli off the bench and him and Anderson are equals at this point. He is Derrick White; an above average defender who can’t shoot.

Ginobilli isn’t going to magically reincarnate himself into Walker, White or anyone else on this roster no matter what title PATFO gives him.

I think meant White is the new Patty in terms of being the guy that embodies "Spurs culture" or whatever... :lol

[KingKev]

I think meant White is the new Patty in terms of being the guy that embodies "Spurs culture" or whatever... :lol

What about Spurs culture does he embody? He has never won a playoff series, never stepped up to the plate to make big shots, never once been praised for his locker room presence, seldom steps up when his teammates are out. Just because he appears to be a nice guy and was a late draft pic does not make White accoladed; he has not earned that.

[Leetonidas]

What about Spurs culture does he embody? He has never won a playoff series, never stepped up to the plate to make big shots, never once been praised for his locker room presence, seldom steps up when his teammates are out. Just because he appears to be a nice guy and was a late draft pic does not make White accoladed; he has not earned that.

Clearly has to do with his contributions off the court and not anything related to their similarities as players. Kinda obvious tbh. Not sure why you're so hostile over Degoats comment :lol

[John B]

NBA radio today they were saying Randle might be shipped out. Derrick and Lonnie match up with his salary. Thibs would love Derrick. Primo comes up to the big boy club for the rest of the season.

I like Randle. He was a 24/10/6 last year and .411 at 3pt??? Anyway, he’s a gritty player who loves contacts. Collins play more above the rims but needed to get setup, while Randle is your prototypical postup PF. Collins is much younger at 23 vs 27, and more up to the Spurs running game. The only thing with Collins is his lack of postup and facilitate-from-the-post moves, but could be in his future. What’s attractive with Collins is he’s so young, but lacking a lot of fundamental skills besides dunking the ball and hitting the 3’s.

[KingKev]

Clearly has to do with his contributions off the court and not anything related to their similarities as players. Kinda obvious tbh. Not sure why you're so hostile over Degoats comment :lol

What does he do off the court? H-E-B commercials? Community appearances? That’s an absolute necessity when you play for the Spurs. There is nothing special about him off the court other than that he is a nice, regular guy.

[Atl Spur]

Holy fk. Spurs talk needs to stop comparing current players to past Spurs greats. The only thing D White embodies of Spurs past is Kyle Anderson. White is a 30% 3pt shooter with 0 leadership skills. He isn’t Patty, he isn’t the reincarnation of Ginobilli off the bench and him and Anderson are equals at this point. He is Derrick White; an above average defender who can’t shoot.

Ginobilli isn’t going to magically reincarnate himself into Walker, White or anyone else on this roster no matter what title PATFO gives him.

Derricks trash to you? He’s a solid do it all sixth man.

[John B]

What about Spurs culture does he embody? He has never won a playoff series, never stepped up to the plate to make big shots, never once been praised for his locker room presence, seldom steps up when his teammates are out. Just because he appears to be a nice guy and was a late draft pic does not make White accoladed; he has not earned that.

I think “Spurs Culture” meaning unselfish (to the fault though of becoming Beta), of sacrificing his body taking those charges. Personally I like White, but he is very inconsistent to me. If other teams value his locker room culture and defense, and willing to give us Collins or Randle? Heck Zi’d grab that, especially since it would clear a spot for Primo to be finally in the SL (granted he’s still very raw but has shown great strides). Heck Kobe missed like 4(?) lSt minute 3 pointers in a pivotal game as a rookie. Getting back, I’d move on from White for a bigger fish, but unlikely a PATFO move.

[RC_Drunkford]

I don't understand why people think Derrick White is a 6th man. The last time he was a 6th man he averaged 11 points per game. A 6th man is a scorer. That's not who White is.

[Degoat]

Holy fk. Spurs talk needs to stop comparing current players to past Spurs greats. The only thing D White embodies of Spurs past is Kyle Anderson. White is a 30% 3pt shooter with 0 leadership skills. He isn’t Patty, he isn’t the reincarnation of Ginobilli off the bench and him and Anderson are equals at this point. He is Derrick White; an above average defender who can’t shoot.

Ginobilli isn’t going to magically reincarnate himself into Walker, White or anyone else on this roster no matter what title PATFO gives him.

Dude who hurt you? Lol he’s represents everything the spurs value, good teammate, Culture guy, gives back to the community, plays hard. I’m not saying he’s perfect but he’s important to the team

[KingKev]

Dude who hurt you? Lol he’s represents everything the spurs value, good teammate, Culture guy, gives back to the community, plays hard. I’m not saying he’s perfect but he’s important to the team

He is is very replaceable. Former Spurs legends earned their legacy. White has not. Maybe if the Spurs relaxed all of the culture bullshit we wouldn’t be where we are currently.

[KingKev]

Derricks trash to you? He’s a solid do it all sixth man.

Your words not mine.

[Atl Spur]

He is is very replaceable. Former Spurs legends earned their legacy. White has not. Maybe if the Spurs relaxed all of the culture bullshit we wouldn’t be where we are currently.

?? What?? Every team goes through this; the key is to limit the amount of time we stay here.

[Degoat]

After that loss tonight I’m fine trading everybody but DJ and Primo, fck the rest lol

[poopbox]

Spurs need to be fielding calls on White. Shouldn't give him away but if they can get a good young power forward or center they need to make that move. If the Hawks tell the spurs a Collins trade starts with White then the spurs need to make that deal happen. He doesn't stand out as doing anything great anymore. He doesn't impact winning. Is Derrick White even as good as Jordan Poole? It doesn't seem like it. Poole made a ton of plays tonight and White did what he typical does. Makes one 3 in the 3rd...takes a charge...and inbetween does a bunch of nothing.

Again I wouldn't give him away but he just doesn't impact winning anymore and guys who don't do that you should upgrade from them if you can. It's funny cause out of all the current Spurs he is the only one who has played well in some playoff games so he should really be the leader of the pack and not DJ. Dejounte has lapped him so much as a player that you would never know they were both drafted with the 29th pick

[Atl Spur]

White looks bad right now but he’s still best suited as our sixth man. He has value because his bbiq is high but he is all over the place now.

[R. DeMurre]

I don't get why people are focusing on White. He put up 16/7/3 tonight and shot 6 for 10 from the field and 4 for 7 from three.

As I see it, here's the problem: the Spurs shot a better FG% and a better 3 pt% than the Warriors and still lost because the Warriors put up 13 more shots. The Spurs' two starting guards combined for 12 rebounds while their two starting forwards combined for 4. If McDermott & KJ combine for 10 total rebounds, the Spurs win this game. That's not a big ask.

[John B]

I don't get why people are focusing on White. He put up 16/7/3 tonight and shot 6 for 10 from the field and 4 for 7 from three.

As I see it, here's the problem: the Spurs shot a better FG% and a better 3 pt% than the Warriors and still lost because the Warriors put up 13 more shots. The Spurs' two starting guards combined for 12 rebounds while their two starting forwards combined for 4. If McDermott & KJ combine for 10 total rebounds, the Spurs win this game. That's not a big ask.

I think Spurs didn’t have anybody taller than 6’7” at the stretch, despite getting outrebounded again and again. Terrible adjustment by Pop. I think this game was meant to be a loss but Kerr made it interesting pulling all his starters

[Spur4ever]

Collins suck. Definitely not worth the money he’s making

[buttsR4rebounding]

He is is very replaceable. Former Spurs legends earned their legacy. White has not. Maybe if the Spurs relaxed all of the culture bullshit we wouldn’t be where we are currently.

Yep. Should’ve taken Haliburton and kept Samanic. This team would be significantly better at this point.

[CGD]

Eyes on the prize: we’re 7th in the draft order. Need Indy and Sac to pass us.

- Though losing, the team plays inspired ball and we’re starting to see a little more Primo too.

- Highly likely that Collins and Sabonis deals will still be there in the summer.

- please get something for Thad though. Tired of the buy out crap. Hope they hold on to him if he’s not traded even to just send a message to rest of league in the future.

[Atl Spur]

Yep. Should’ve taken Haliburton and kept Samanic. This team would be significantly better at this point.

Nope! Luka was super soft and vassell just needs time. People, Golden State was at the top of the lottery the past two years and their fan base is ecstatic now with the infusion of young talent. Be patient…….. we will be so much better next year.

[lmbebo]

https://sports.yahoo.com/thaddeus-young-trade-talk-heats-162041707.html

[BacktoBasics]

https://sports.yahoo.com/thaddeus-young-trade-talk-heats-162041707.html


But if the Suns come to the table alone with Saric, Kaminsky, and another second rounder to polish things off, it makes sense for the Spurs to agree. Young enters free agency after this year, so rather than letting him walk for nothing, this trade grants them an opportunity to at least collect some sort of reward."

This is not appealing to me at all. Saric eating up cap space for a second rounder is a bad move.

[lmbebo]

This is not appealing to me at all. Saric eating up cap space for a second rounder is a bad move.

Just talking heads. 1st round pick is what I'd want to take on Saric's deal (personally)

[cd98]

Hmmm Young never plays. I don’t think SA will lose sleep if he walks. Trading DDR was about getting the 1st round pick. If they can get something for young, great. But if not, won’t change what they are trying to do.

[KingKev]

Hmmm Young never plays. I don’t think SA will lose sleep if he walks. Trading DDR was about getting the 1st round pick. If they can get something for young, great. But if not, won’t change what they are trying to do.

24mm in cap space between Aminu and Thad for 2SRPs and a dar our first is not a good return for a player who wanted to go get paid in Chicago. DDR has no alternatives to get that money outright. Both parties needed us. Aminu’s contract alone was worth a first.

[exstatic]

24mm in cap space between Aminu and Thad for 2SRPs and a dar our first is not a good return for a player who wanted to go get paid in Chicago. DDR has no alternatives to get that money outright. Both parties needed us. Aminu’s contract alone was worth a first.

That 4way trade, overall, netted us 3SRPs and a first.

[Chinook]

That 4way trade, overall, netted us 3SRPs and a first.

Hutch was part of the Westbrook trade, not the DeRozan trade.

[Chinook]

24mm in cap space between Aminu and Thad for 2SRPs and a dar our first is not a good return for a player who wanted to go get paid in Chicago. DDR has no alternatives to get that money outright. Both parties needed us. Aminu’s contract alone was worth a first.

This is true. The deal could have been great had the Spurs been able to keep Aminu on the roster for a better opportunity and actually played Thad. It's much closer to meh now. I don't like the idea of eating Saric's contract for just a second-rounder, and worrying about letting Young walk "for nothing" isn't a good enough reason to change my mind. I think they botched the Young situation in what's becoming an annoying trend, but that doesn't mean sacrificing 2022 cap space on a player who'd probably just be another example of that trend.

[RC_Drunkford]

Collins suck. Definitely not worth the money he’s making

Collins is better than any Spurs player not named Dejounte

[BacktoBasics]

Just talking heads. 1st round pick is what I'd want to take on Saric's deal (personally)

That would be a really late first. Might as well be a second. Maybe a mid round 1st but I don’t see value on that much salary for such a late first.

For Smith maybe. At least you get a prospect too.

[RC_Drunkford]

That would be a really late first. Might as well be a second. Maybe a mid round 1st but I don’t see value on that much salary for such a late first.

For Smith maybe. At least you get a prospect too.

Spurs should try to get future firsts and that's not for the purpose of drafting. If they can get a 2024 Suns 1st rounder they got 2 first round picks to include in a trade for an All-Star talent in the future

[BackHome]

A first is a must and if we like Smith just get him after this season when he becomes a free agent and then repeat next season in trading Saric

[Leetonidas]

Yeah, no reason to make that trade with PHX unless they're giving up a first.

There has to be some other team out there that is eyeballing Thad...right? Right?? :lol

[RC_Drunkford]

Yeah, no reason to make that trade with PHX unless they're giving up a first.

There has to be some other team out there that is eyeballing Thad...right? Right?? :lol

there are plenty, but most of them don't have any contracts that match his salary

[KingKev]

That 4way trade, overall, netted us 3SRPs and a first.

Tell me more about this 4way trade or admit you are wrong for once. No excuses.

[exstatic]

Hutch was part of the Westbrook trade, not the DeRozan trade.

You are correct.

[KingKev]

You are correct.

you are also wrong. Just admit it for once.

[exstatic]

you are also wrong. Just admit it for once.

I did, to the poster that first pointed it out, not the monkey dick.

[cd98]

24mm in cap space between Aminu and Thad for 2SRPs and a dar our first is not a good return for a player who wanted to go get paid in Chicago. DDR has no alternatives to get that money outright. Both parties needed us. Aminu’s contract alone was worth a first.

Wait, what? DDR was going to Chicago regardless. We worked a deal that got us a first round pick. Aminu and Thad only have salary for this year, a year where we are under the tax and can afford to take on one year of a salary. There was no downside. Now, if they can get something more for Young, great. But it looks like he isn't good enough to earn minutes on the floor and if that is the case, teams aren't trading much for him. No reason to trade him for trade's sake, but they shouldn't do something harmful to the roster, like trade for Saric just to "get something" for Young. If they get something, great. But don't trade him for a player with years on his contract and doesn't excite the Spurs about playing him.

[CGD]

Had PHX been able to send over their 2022 first (instead of it going to OKC), I think the Saric/filler/FRP gets done a while ago. The pause for PHX has to be that the FRP the spurs covet wouldn’t come until at least 2024, which maybe outside this current CP3 window they have.

[CGD]

Wait, what? DDR was going to Chicago regardless. We worked a deal that got us a first round pick. Aminu and Thad only have salary for this year, a year where we are under the tax and can afford to take on one year of a salary. There was no downside. Now, if they can get something more for Young, great. But it looks like he isn't good enough to earn minutes on the floor and if that is the case, teams aren't trading much for him. No reason to trade him for trade's sake, but they shouldn't do something harmful to the roster, like trade for Saric just to "get something" for Young. If they get something, great. But don't trade him for a player with years on his contract and doesn't excite the Spurs about playing him.

I agree. I think the CHI deal was a win regardless. Would it be nice to get value for Thad? Of course. But that 2025 pick could be nice, and even nicer if it conveys the year after when it’s only top 8 protected.

[exstatic]

Had PHX been able to send over their 2022 first (instead of it going to OKC), I think the Saric/filler/FRP gets done a while ago. The pause for PHX has to be that the FRP the spurs covet wouldn’t come until at least 2024, which maybe outside this current CP3 window they have.

He signed a 3 year deal, and I doubt his game falls off a cliff anytime soon. I think they’ve moved on by signing Biyambo.

[bluebellmaniac]

He signed a 3 year deal, and I doubt his game falls off a cliff anytime soon. I think they’ve moved on by signing Biyambo.

Saric would be a good return.

[KingKev]

Wait, what? DDR was going to Chicago regardless. We worked a deal that got us a first round pick. Aminu and Thad only have salary for this year, a year where we are under the tax and can afford to take on one year of a salary. There was no downside. Now, if they can get something more for Young, great. But it looks like he isn't good enough to earn minutes on the floor and if that is the case, teams aren't trading much for him. No reason to trade him for trade's sake, but they shouldn't do something harmful to the roster, like trade for Saric just to "get something" for Young. If they get something, great. But don't trade him for a player with years on his contract and doesn't excite the Spurs about playing him.

Chicago was well over the cap so he wasn’t going there regardless. DDR still wanted to get paid, one of the reasons LA was not a suitable trade partner. There were few teams with the cap space to sign DDR outright. He always needed us.

[CGD]

He signed a 3 year deal, and I doubt his game falls off a cliff anytime soon. I think they’ve moved on by signing Biyambo.

He’ll be 39, we’ll see. I do think Biyambo not sucking ass has hurt us though.

[MannyIsGod]

you are also wrong. Just admit it for once.

Holy fuck you can be annoying. Dude said he was wrong by saying Chinook is right. You've been here for like 2 days. Slow your roll.

[MannyIsGod]

I don't get why people are focusing on White. He put up 16/7/3 tonight and shot 6 for 10 from the field and 4 for 7 from three.

As I see it, here's the problem: the Spurs shot a better FG% and a better 3 pt% than the Warriors and still lost because the Warriors put up 13 more shots. The Spurs' two starting guards combined for 12 rebounds while their two starting forwards combined for 4. If McDermott & KJ combine for 10 total rebounds, the Spurs win this game. That's not a big ask.

White is mentioned in trade talks not because he sucks but because he's actually good enough to get a return. That's the point that is so often missed in talks about trades around here. You can't simply throw garbage into a trade and expect to get something that helps you get better. You have to have assets that other teams consider valuable and are interested in actually trading for. White fits this bill.

In addition to have value, White is also somewhat redundant on this team. Devin isn't as good defensively as white, but he's a better shooter and he's much younger. For me, I would rather keep Devin and try to improve other areas of need with white. Then you also have Primo who will need minutes eventually. And then I guess there's a chance we keep Lonnie. The Spurs need to move at least one of these players and White is probably the one you can flip for something else because of his contract and ability.

While I think White is close to his celling and I don't think anyone can argue he's the best player on the team, I think he's much better than the average NBA fan would give him credit for. I just wish he shot the ball better from 3.

[KingKev]

Holy fuck you can be annoying. Dude said he was wrong by saying Chinook is right. You've been here for like 2 days. Slow your roll.

Under my moniker is my old handle just forgot the password as I did not post during the 15+ years between grad school and now. When I was in HS in like 2000 I was proving Ex wrong on Spurs Report. Regularly. Half smart guy just seldom admits he is wrong. All in good fun.

[Chinook]

Chicago was well over the cap so he wasn’t going there regardless. DDR still wanted to get paid, one of the reasons LA was not a suitable trade partner. There were few teams with the cap space to sign DDR outright. He always needed us.

I remember it being more complicated than that. Chicago basically paid SA and NOP to do their deals as S&Ts so they could stay over the cap and use their MLE on Caruso. Had they been forced to use cap space, they probably could have found a way to afford DeRozan outright. I assume he was the biggest of the three fish they secured, though they might have thought Ball and Caruso together would be a better catch. The Spurs had more leverage than Chicago, but they didn't have the Bulls over a barrel either.

[R. DeMurre]

White is mentioned in trade talks not because he sucks but because he's actually good enough to get a return. That's the point that is so often missed in talks about trades around here. You can't simply throw garbage into a trade and expect to get something that helps you get better. You have to have assets that other teams consider valuable and are interested in actually trading for. White fits this bill.

In addition to have value, White is also somewhat redundant on this team. Devin isn't as good defensively as white, but he's a better shooter and he's much younger. For me, I would rather keep Devin and try to improve other areas of need with white. Then you also have Primo who will need minutes eventually. And then I guess there's a chance we keep Lonnie. The Spurs need to move at least one of these players and White is probably the one you can flip for something else because of his contract and ability.

While I think White is close to his celling and I don't think anyone can argue he's the best player on the team, I think he's much better than the average NBA fan would give him credit for. I just wish he shot the ball better from 3.

I get that, but I think Keldon potentially has similar trade value as a young guy who just played in the olympics and is seen by many as having a break out type of year and potential going forward. To me, White has established that he can be a net positive player and glue guy. I'm not positive KJ will be that guy, plus an upgrade at PF seems to be the most glaring need at the moment. I think Vassell will be a SG/SF in the future, and Primo might too, so White being able to back up either guard spot makes him a solid 6th or 7th man going forward. White's effect on winning has been better than KJ's this year, even with KJ having an outstanding (and likely unsustainable) three point shooting year and White having a subpar 3 pt shooting year... If next season sees both players return to the mean, that difference in effectiveness could get even larger.

[KingKev]

I remember it being more complicated than that. Chicago basically paid SA and NOP to do their deals as S&Ts so they could stay over the cap and use their MLE on Caruso. Had they been forced to use cap space, they probably could have found a way to afford DeRozan outright. I assume he was the biggest of the three fish they secured, though they might have thought Ball and Caruso together would be a better catch. The Spurs had more leverage than Chicago, but they didn't have the Bulls over a barrel either.

We held the chips. Even if they found a way to salary dump both Thad and Aminu and didn’t sign both Lonzo and Caruso their free cap would have been ~5-10mm. Not enough to pursue DDR. PATFO is the gift that keeps on giving. They did right by their guy. More goodwill.

[Chinook]

We held the chips. Even if they found a way to salary dump both Thad and Aminu and didn’t sign both Lonzo and Caruso their free cap would have been ~5-10mm. Not enough to pursue DDR. PATFO is the gift that keeps on giving. They did right by their guy. More goodwill.

Remember the Bulls were willing to pay a first and two seconds to get DeRozan. Sending picks to OKC to get them to take Young/Aminu and the stretch provision would have easily given them enough. A big reason why they were over the cap was Markkanen's hold. Renouncing him would have helped them out a lot as well.

Don't get me wrong, Chicago definitely needed the Spurs to help them get DeRozan while keeping together their depth. But if they had wanted DeRozan badly enough, they didn't need the Spurs to get him.

EDIT -- Sorry, I misread your post initially and didn't see that you do mention Young and Aminu being salary dumped. I don't think their team salary would have been as high as you're suggesting.

(Everything I'm saying is coming from looking at the Capulator salaries and trying to recreate the Bulls' 2021 off-season cap situation from that. It's not a fully fleshed out analysis.) If you remove Caruso and Jones from the Bulls' salary, they are almost at the cap. That's with Ball and DeRozan on the roster, in addition go buoyant salary for Brown, White and Williams. Not trading for Ball and stretching Satoransky would have given them $10 Million in cap space, after signing DeRozan. They definitely could have created around $40 Million in cap space if they were willing to move the picks and eat some dead money in future seasons. It's a much worse result than they got, but teams have definitely done those types of gymnastics before.

[MannyIsGod]

I get that, but I think Keldon potentially has similar trade value as a young guy who just played in the olympics and is seen by many as having a break out type of year and potential going forward. To me, White has established that he can be a net positive player and glue guy. I'm not positive KJ will be that guy, plus an upgrade at PF seems to be the most glaring need at the moment. I think Vassell will be a SG/SF in the future, and Primo might too, so White being able to back up either guard spot makes him a solid 6th or 7th man going forward. White's effect on winning has been better than KJ's this year, even with KJ having an outstanding (and likely unsustainable) three point shooting year and White having a subpar 3 pt shooting year... If next season sees both players return to the mean, that difference in effectiveness could get even larger.

I don't really think White is a good 6th man contender. I definitely think he has more value than KJ, especially because of White being on an extension rather than KJ's rookie deal.

Its almost impossible to trade KJ alone and get good value because he's still on the rookie scale of a late first round pick. Also, Atlanta - the most likely trade destination for White - have zero need for KJ.

[poopbox]

Yeah, no reason to make that trade with PHX unless they're giving up a first.

There has to be some other team out there that is eyeballing Thad...right? Right?? :lol


Why would anybody be eyeballing a player who has barely played this year? And what team is a thad young away from being so much better that they will give up something that the spurs want...

Me thinks that just like the spurs botched trading Pau and LMA...they have botched trading Thad.

[KingKev]

Remember the Bulls were willing to pay a first and two seconds to get DeRozan. Sending picks to OKC to get them to take Young/Aminu and the stretch provision would have easily given them enough. A big reason why they were over the cap was Markkanen's hold. Renouncing him would have helped them out a lot as well.

Don't get me wrong, Chicago definitely needed the Spurs to help them get DeRozan while keeping together their depth. But if they had wanted DeRozan badly enough, they didn't need the Spurs to get him.

The Spurs were going to do right by DDR almost regardless and had limited options for that cap space but I just don’t see trade as much of a win for Brian Wright. I’m not privy to the conversations that went down behind closed doors but I would have hoped for more. The cost to eat Aminu’s contract alone is an FRP. If Thad is turned into something it might change my view, but IMO a buyout is imminent as we have set a clear precedence.

[RC_Drunkford]

Why would anybody be eyeballing a player who has barely played this year? And what team is a thad young away from being so much better that they will give up something that the spurs want...

Me thinks that just like the spurs botched trading Pau and LMA...they have botched trading Thad.


simple, because playoff teams need a player who can defend Giannis and Thad has a history of doing that somewhat well. Everybody knows his game hasn't fallen off

[poopbox]

White is mentioned in trade talks not because he sucks but because he's actually good enough to get a return. That's the point that is so often missed in talks about trades around here. You can't simply throw garbage into a trade and expect to get something that helps you get better. You have to have assets that other teams consider valuable and are interested in actually trading for. White fits this bill.

In addition to have value, White is also somewhat redundant on this team. Devin isn't as good defensively as white, but he's a better shooter and he's much younger. For me, I would rather keep Devin and try to improve other areas of need with white. Then you also have Primo who will need minutes eventually. And then I guess there's a chance we keep Lonnie. The Spurs need to move at least one of these players and White is probably the one you can flip for something else because of his contract and ability.

While I think White is close to his celling and I don't think anyone can argue he's the best player on the team, I think he's much better than the average NBA fan would give him credit for. I just wish he shot the ball better from 3.

Derrick doesn't really impact winning and we got 2 players in the pipeline, Primo and Vassel...who are in the same mold of the type of player Derrick is. It just makes logical sense to trade him for something you need, like a young power forward or center, when you have some plug in play options off the bench behind Derrick AND you are not winning shit anyway.

[poopbox]

simple, because playoff teams need a player who can defend Giannis and Thad has a history of doing that somewhat well. Everybody knows his game hasn't fallen off

I am very confident that if a game is coming down to how Thad defends Giannis then the bucks are winning 9 out of 10 of those games :lol.

This seems like a Demarre Carrol situation all over again where we are like "why is this guy not playing" and then we see him play and we are like "oh thats why this guy is not playing".

[RC_Drunkford]

I am very confident that if a game is coming down to how Thad defends Giannis then the bucks are winning 9 out of 10 of those games :lol.

This seems like a Demarre Carrol situation all over again where we are like "why is this guy not playing" and then we see him play and we are like "oh thats why this guy is not playing".

we've seen Thad play and he didn't look like Demarre Carrol. Completely different situation

[Leetonidas]

I am very confident that if a game is coming down to how Thad defends Giannis then the bucks are winning 9 out of 10 of those games :lol.

This seems like a Demarre Carrol situation all over again where we are like "why is this guy not playing" and then we see him play and we are like "oh thats why this guy is not playing".
Say what? He's looked fine whenever he gets minutes. He is by far the best big we have besides Poeltl. Carroll was straight washed looking every time he stepped on the court. Not the same as Thad at all

[cd98]

Chicago was well over the cap so he wasn’t going there regardless. DDR still wanted to get paid, one of the reasons LA was not a suitable trade partner. There were few teams with the cap space to sign DDR outright. He always needed us.

Ok, but all that being true doesn't change the fact that the Spurs got a first round pick in the deal to essentially take salary for a year when they were tanking anyway. If DDR had gone elsewhere, they would not have gotten anything. So I guess I don't see your point.

[scott]

Is this thread about potential trades at the deadline or whether the normal dipshits were able to make better trades for DDR in 2k? Jesus this place has been the same for 20 years.

[Robz4000]

Is this thread about potential trades at the deadline or whether the normal dipshits were able to make better trades for DDR in 2k? Jesus this place has been the same for 20 years.


We love you too.

[R. DeMurre]

Derrick doesn't really impact winning and we got 2 players in the pipeline, Primo and Vassel...who are in the same mold of the type of player Derrick is. It just makes logical sense to trade him for something you need, like a young power forward or center, when you have some plug in play options off the bench behind Derrick AND you are not winning shit anyway.

Not sure how you reached this opinion, but every imaginable stat shows that White does impact winning-- Win Shares, BPM, +/- per 100 possessions, WAR, RAPTOR, etc...

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/2022.html
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/nba-player-ratings/

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Not sure how you reached this opinion, but every imaginable stat shows that White does impact winning-- Win Shares, BPM, +/- per 100 possessions, WAR, RAPTOR, etc...

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/2022.html
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/nba-player-ratings/

I agree, he does impact games positively, even when not shooting an amazing % from 3. He's a glue guy who does a lot of the little things for a team. It's true he's not having his best season but this is precisely why I wouldn't trade him now unless there's a great offer. I believe his value would increase and his contract is long enough so there shouldn't be any pressure to move him now.

[tbdog]

If I could trade White for another White at PF. I would do it without a thought. The spurs really do have a log jam at the guard spot and desperate for PF.

[KingKev]

If I could trade White for another White at PF. I would do it without a thought. The spurs really do have a log jam at the guard spot and desperate for PF.

If we don’t come away with a starting caliber PF in the draft I think this is very likely.

[poopbox]

Not sure how you reached this opinion, but every imaginable stat shows that White does impact winning-- Win Shares, BPM, +/- per 100 possessions, WAR, RAPTOR, etc...

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/2022.html
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/nba-player-ratings/

If he impacted winning that much, we wouldn't be 14 games under .500. Of course that is not all on him, but when you impact winning then you usually aren't one of the 5 worst teams in the nba

[exstatic]

If he impacted winning that much, we wouldn't be 14 games under .500. Of course that is not all on him, but when you impact winning then you usually aren't one of the 5 worst teams in the nba

Then DeJounte isn’t an All Star. How can you be one on one of the 5 worst teams?

[R. DeMurre]

If he impacted winning that much, we wouldn't be 14 games under .500. Of course that is not all on him, but when you impact winning then you usually aren't one of the 5 worst teams in the nba


The Spurs have three players that are solidly in the net positive category: Murray, Poeltl, and White. That's it. No other player on this team can claim that. Vassell and KJ are flirting with being net neutral, and the rest-- McDermott, Eubanks, etc.-- are pretty solidly in the negative. Another way to look at it: Murray, Poeltl, and White are the only three Spurs with a VORP above 1.0., while the rest of the team is below 1.0. Most winning teams have four or more players in this category. White isn't near a Jokic, Giannis, or Curry in terms of impact. He's not even at the level of a Jimmy Butler or Jayson Tatum-- that's the level of player it would take to counterbalance the Spurs' current lack of depth and experience and make them a winning team. It's not White's fault that his team's two starting forwards are consistently out-rebounded by the two starting guards and often by the starting PG by himself. But if next year, Vassell and KJ can step up even slightly into positive territory and the Spurs can replace a chunk of minutes currently filled by McDermott, Eubanks, & Walker with more impactful guys, I think the Spurs can easily be above .500.

[KingKev]

The Spurs have three players that are solidly in the net positive category: Murray, Poeltl, and White. That's it. No other player on this team can claim that. Vassell and KJ are flirting with being net neutral, and the rest-- McDermott, Eubanks, etc.-- are pretty solidly in the negative. Another way to look at it: Murray, Poeltl, and White are the only three Spurs with a VORP above 1.0., while the rest of the team is below 1.0. Most winning teams have four or more players in this category. White isn't near a Jokic, Giannis, or Curry in terms of impact. He's not even at the level of a Jimmy Butler or Jayson Tatum-- that's the level of player it would take to counterbalance the Spurs' current lack of depth and experience and make them a winning team. It's not White's fault that his team's two starting forwards are consistently out-rebounded by the two starting guards and often by the starting PG by himself. But if next year, Vassell and KJ can step up even slightly into positive territory and the Spurs can replace a chunk of minutes currently filled by McDermott, Eubanks, & Walker with more impactful guys, I think the Spurs can easily be above .500.

I know there are alot of optimists on this board but when Murray, White and Jak are your top 3 you have alot to be worried about. Individually those guys could be very important pieces to a winning team, don’t get me wrong but they are all your 3-5th best player on almost every other NBA team.

Vassell and KJ still have the ability to develop into solid bench players and potential starters given a fitting role but will never be the solution.

I don’t think Spurs fans realize just how bad Walker, McDermott and especially Eubanks are.

We have a real lack of talent. It’s undeniable. Take Jak/White out of the equation and we are absolutely a bottom 5 team. They are both very valuable (and replaceable) trade chips however.

[Chinook]

I also think people shouldn't fall too in love with impact stats. That's how you end up believing the Bulls were going to be worse moving Thad's high impact for DeRozan. Until there's a way to control for role, the impact stats can't be your only way to measure a player's importance. They shouldn't even be considered the strongest evidence.

Obviously, though, it doesn't make sense to use the Spurs' record this year as a way of downplaying White. Better players than Derrick are also unable to drag their teams to good records.

[The Truth #6]

I know there are alot of optimists on this board but when Murray, White and Jak are your top 3 you have alot to be worried about. Individually those guys could be very important pieces to a winning team, don’t get me wrong but they are all your 3-5th best player on almost every other NBA team.

Vassell and KJ still have the ability to develop into solid bench players and potential starters given a fitting role but will never be the solution.

I don’t think Spurs dans realize just how bad Walker, McDermott and especially Eubanks are.

We have a real lack of talent. It’s undeniable. Take Jak/White out of the equation and we are absokutely a bottom 5 team. They are both very valuable (and replaceable) trade chips however.

Harsh truth. But I agreed with this.

[KingKev]

The parity across the NBA means guys like Jak, White and Thad potentially fetch good return. This a great year to upgrade your roster at the deadline. Alot of other solid role players probably on the block though: think T Ross, Robert Covington, Nurkic, Gary Harris, Dragic, TJ Warren, Eric Gordon to name a few.

[exstatic]

I also think people shouldn't fall too in love with impact stats. That's how you end up believing the Bulls were going to be worse moving Thad's high impact for DeRozan. Until there's a way to control for role, the impact stats can't be your only way to measure a player's importance. They shouldn't even be considered the strongest evidence.

Obviously, though, it doesn't make sense to use the Spurs' record this year as a way of downplaying White. Better players than Derrick are also unable to drag their teams to good records.

Haliburton, perhaps?

[KingKev]

Something else to consider ahead of the trade deadline is that the projected revenue from the estimated ~10 or so luxury tax payers is going to be like 500-600mm. That is double the next highest year. Something like 50% of that gets paid to non tax payers.

That’s 10+ milly per team. Anyone at or near the luxury tax are highly motivated to get that pay cheque. We can facilitate that with Thad and Juancho if compensated appropriately.

Is Brian Wright capable?

[exstatic]

Something else to consider ahead of the trade deadline is that the projected revenue from the estimated ~10 or so luxury tax payers is going to be like 500-600mm. That is double the next highest year. Something like 50% of that gets paid to non tax payers.

That’s 10+ milly per team. Anyone at or near the luxury tax are highly motivated to get that pay cheque. We can facilitate that with Thad and Juancho if compensated appropriately.

Is Brian Wright capable?
Portland is a candidate. They’re only $4.5M into the tax.

[R. DeMurre]

I also think people shouldn't fall too in love with impact stats. That's how you end up believing the Bulls were going to be worse moving Thad's high impact for DeRozan. Until there's a way to control for role, the impact stats can't be your only way to measure a player's importance. They shouldn't even be considered the strongest evidence.

Obviously, though, it doesn't make sense to use the Spurs' record this year as a way of downplaying White. Better players than Derrick are also unable to drag their teams to good records.

I wouldn't call the Chicago situation a strong case here. They added Lonzo, Caruso, and DeRozan, and had more time to incorporate Vucevic, who only played 26 games with them last year. Of their top 5 leaders in minutes played, four are different from the top 5 of last season, so they're essentially a completely different team. They also eliminated minutes for Coby White and Patrick Williams, who were two of their biggest net negatives last season. Coby White was #1 on the Bulls in minutes played last year-- this year he's 6th, and widely considered to be on the trading block. Williams was #3 last year, and not in the top 13 this year. So again, a completely different team. Their record didn't improve simply because they swapped Thad for DeRozan.

[KingKev]

Portland is a candidate. They’re only $4.5M into the tax.

Agreed but we’ve had this debate. Nurk and RoCo are coveted players on expiring contracts and probably not in the Blazers future. They will not have any trouble finding a team to make that worm and do not need to pay up to do it.

Grizzlies could take one of those two outright.

[R. DeMurre]

Haliburton, perhaps?

Absolutely. Some had Golden State in that draft pulling the surprise move of trading the #2 pick and grabbing him with a lottery pick a few slots down. I bet they'd do that now, if given a redo.

[Thomas82]

I know there are alot of optimists on this board but when Murray, White and Jak are your top 3 you have alot to be worried about. Individually those guys could be very important pieces to a winning team, don’t get me wrong but they are all your 3-5th best player on almost every other NBA team.

Vassell and KJ still have the ability to develop into solid bench players and potential starters given a fitting role but will never be the solution.

I don’t think Spurs fans realize just how bad Walker, McDermott and especially Eubanks are.

We have a real lack of talent. It’s undeniable. Take Jak/White out of the equation and we are absolutely a bottom 5 team. They are both very valuable (and replaceable) trade chips however.

[Chinook]

I wouldn't call the Chicago situation a strong case here. They added Lonzo, Caruso, and DeRozan, and had more time to incorporate Vucevic, who only played 26 games with them last year. Of their top 5 leaders in minutes played, four are different from the top 5 of last season, so they're essentially a completely different team. They also eliminated minutes for Coby White and Patrick Williams, who were two of their biggest net negatives last season. Coby White was #1 on the Bulls in minutes played last year-- this year he's 6th, and widely considered to be on the trading block. Their record didn't improve simply because they swapped Thad for DeRozan.

Their record didn't just improve a little though. They went from solid lottery team to a dark-horse contender. DeRozan on aggregate has been their most impactful player this season, and per minute he's been the second-most impactful player. You can't slice this to take away credit from him. His stats aren't even better than they were last year, either, so it's not actually that he's playing better now than he did before. He's the same guy, but he's in a different situation now. But here's the thing: Even with everything I just said, Thad last year STILL had better impact that's than DeRozan this year -- both per-minute and aggregate (they've played about the same number of minutes).

So the example I brought up gets stronger with context, not weaker.

[R. DeMurre]

Their record didn't just improve a little though. They went from solid lottery team to a dark-horse contender. DeRozan on aggregate has been their most impactful player this season, and per minute he's been the second-most impactful player. You can't slice this to take away credit from him. His stats aren't even better than they were last year, either, so it's not actually that he's playing better now than he did before. He's the same guy, but he's in a different situation now. But here's the thing: Even with everything I just said, Thad last year STILL had better impact that's than DeRozan this year -- both per-minute and aggregate (they've played about the same number of minutes).

So the example I brought up gets stronger with context, not weaker.

They're essentially a completely different team, so I don't think the comparison makes sense. The reason they "didn't just improve a little" is because they're a completely different team, with multiple added pluses and numerous subtracted minuses. You might as well be comparing the Bulls to the '18 Raptors... both teams featured DeRozan... that's about how similar they are to last year's Bulls.

[exstatic]

Agreed but we’ve had this debate. Nurk and RoCo are coveted players on expiring contracts and probably not in the Blazers future. They will not have any trouble finding a team to make that worm and do not need to pay up to do it.

Grizzlies could take one of those two outright.

Grizzlies have capnroom? Right now?

[B1gduff]

a few question that I think need to be addressed.

1. Does Collings really move the needle for this team? At the moment he's playing on a team, with a much better roster than us, yet while being the second or 3rd option, they are 10th. So does Collings actually move the needle for us? Most people see Colling, Vassel, Primo and collins (if we acquire him) as the future....But does he acttually improve the team and is he actually worth the cost and price that we have to pay?


2. Alot of people are talking about the time-line, and how Jak and a few other do not fit it? So what is this timeline? Personally I feel like in 2 years, we'll be a playoff team and Jak will only be 28..

[JeffDuncan]

Their record didn't just improve a little though. They went from solid lottery team to a dark-horse contender. DeRozan on aggregate has been their most impactful player this season, and per minute he's been the second-most impactful player. You can't slice this to take away credit from him. His stats aren't even better than they were last year, either, so it's not actually that he's playing better now than he did before. He's the same guy, but he's in a different situation now. But here's the thing: Even with everything I just said, Thad last year STILL had better impact that's than DeRozan this year -- both per-minute and aggregate (they've played about the same number of minutes).
…


The main take-away, is that if the Spurs fail to make a good trade with Thad it will be a mark against the FO. They really do need to get that done.

[KingKev]

Grizzlies have capnroom? Right now?

10-15mm currently with Culver and Anderson off the books this offseason. Dump Adams last year of 2023 and they will have more than us this offseason.

They are a sleeper free agent destination.

I don’t think pp realize how good they are set up Ex. They are in a VERY good place. The Grindhouse is back.

Oh and 3 future FRPs from LA, Utah and Gs plus own all of their own. This year they have 3 including Lakers (probs mid teens) and Utah’s (probs low to mid 20s).

[exstatic]

10-15mm currently with Culver and Anderson off the books this offseason. Dump Adams last year of 2023 and they will have more than us this offseason.

They are a sleeper free agent destination.

I don’t think pp realize how good they are set up Ex. They are in a VERY good place. The Grindhouse is back.

Oh and 3 future FRPs from LA, Utah and Gs plus own all of their own. This year they have 3 including Lakers (probs mid teens) and Utah’s (probs low to mid 20s).

THIS MINUTE, they have -$3.5M. Cap room in the off-season doesn’t help Portland get under the tax. Only a trade BEFORE the deadline can do that.

[MannyIsGod]

The Spurs likely gathered Thad to facilitate in part of a larger trade - IE Ben Simmons. Now that DJM has emerged there's almost no way he's going to be included in any deal for Ben Simmons. It just wouldn't make sense to trade DJM for him at this point, so the chances of any Ben Simmons deal go way down and Thads utility goes way down as a trade piece. I don't think there was ever a huge market for Thad on his own. The Phoenix rumor has been around but does Thad really strike anyone as commanding a first round pick? I don't believe the Spurs playing him this season would have changed that. I think at this point the Spurs aren't going to take any salary back unless its at least a first round pick. Otherwise they'll probably buyout Thad after next Thursday. I don't think a 2nd rounder moves the needle, but I do think that they might try to use Thad as part of some larger trade.

[Chinook]

They're essentially a completely different team, so the comparison makes no sense. The reason they "didn't just improve a little" is because they're a completely different team, with multiple added pluses and numerous subtracted minuses. You might as well be comparing the Bulls to the '18 Raptors... both teams featured DeRozan... that's about how similar they are to last year's Bulls.

No, you're making my point for me. If context matters so much that you can't just look at impact stats and judge who's a good player ... then that fits into what I said. You can't defend how well impact stats tell the story by claiming that you can't use impact stats to compare players unless the players are in the exact same contexts.

Also, the Bulls aren't a "completely different team". They have the same stars they had last year plus DeRozan. Their highest-impact player hasn't even played 1000 minutes yet. The actual sample sizes between Thad last year and DeRozan this year are nearly equal. So DeMar, whose basic stats are slightly worse than last year, goes from a net-negative on a bad team to the highest aggregate impact player on a very good team yet still doesn't have the impact stats of a role-player on a bad team, yet that still doesn't speak to the limitations of impact stats? It doesn't make sense. I'm not saying impact stats are useless or wrong. I'm saying that people can't use them to make judgments on how much a player really contributes to winning. You can't compare role-players to stars. You can't compare high-usage starters to low-usage bench players. Hell, you can't even compare players on good teams to players on bad teams. Your post agrees with that, so as far as I can tell, you agree with the point I was making.

If you were a person who thought the Spurs would get better (not be in a better long-term position from tanking, but be better immediately) from DeRozan leaving or thought that the Bulls would be better off not doing the DeRozan trade, hopefully you've seen enough to change your mind. If you didn't think that, then that's cool. But there are certainly people who look at impact stats and make those types of conclusions, and that leads to them being wrong. In the same vein, using those stats to stay White has been however important comes with the same weaknesses to criticism. I've liked White a lot for years and still have hope for him, but I also wouldn't look at his RAPTOR and say he's been playing well this year.

[JeffDuncan]

a few question that I think need to be addressed.

1. Does Collings really move the needle for this team?


You mean John Collins on the Hawks? Properly used, he should be significant. His scoring is good, his shooting is good, his rebounding is good, he has low turnovers, and he’s a positive player at both ends of the court, altho moreso on offense. His contract price is somewhat high, but probably not out of line with current NBA prices for good players.



2. Alot of people are talking about the time-line, and how Jak and a few other do not fit it? So what is this timeline? Personally I feel like in 2 years, we'll be a playoff team and Jak will only be 28..


I think that much of the timeline talk around here comes from a distaste for signing older vets.

[KingKev]

THIS MINUTE, they have $3.5M. Cap room in the off-season doesn’t help Portland get under the tax. Only a trade BEFORE the deadline can do that.

My bad, missed the dead cap. Didn’t realize Rondo, Kris Dunn and Gasol were still on the books. They still have movable expiring contracts to be buyers at the deadline.

[exstatic]

The Spurs likely gathered Thad to facilitate in part of a larger trade - IE Ben Simmons. Now that DJM has emerged there's almost no way he's going to be included in any deal for Ben Simmons. It just wouldn't make sense to trade DJM for him at this point, so the chances of any Ben Simmons deal go way down and Thads utility goes way down as a trade piece. I don't think there was ever a huge market for Thad on his own. The Phoenix rumor has been around but does Thad really strike anyone as commanding a first round pick? I don't believe the Spurs playing him this season would have changed that. I think at this point the Spurs aren't going to take any salary back unless its at least a first round pick. Otherwise they'll probably buyout Thad after next Thursday. I don't think a 2nd rounder moves the needle, but I do think that they might try to use Thad as part of some larger trade.

The Phoenix FRP would have been for both value for Thad and eating two years of Saric’s contract, one of which would have been valueless to us because he was injured.

[RC_Drunkford]

this team will never get back to the playoffs without a real starting power forward. By the way the Clippers are trying to move players to reduce their tax bill. Spurs got plenty of options. Kinda wish they kept Aminu, those 10 millions would've probably gotten a return as well

[BackHome]

The Spurs likely gathered Thad to facilitate in part of a larger trade - IE Ben Simmons. Now that DJM has emerged there's almost no way he's going to be included in any deal for Ben Simmons. It just wouldn't make sense to trade DJM for him at this point, so the chances of any Ben Simmons deal go way down and Thads utility goes way down as a trade piece. I don't think there was ever a huge market for Thad on his own. The Phoenix rumor has been around but does Thad really strike anyone as commanding a first round pick? I don't believe the Spurs playing him this season would have changed that. I think at this point the Spurs aren't going to take any salary back unless its at least a first round pick. Otherwise they'll probably buyout Thad after next Thursday. I don't think a 2nd rounder moves the needle, but I do think that they might try to use Thad as part of some larger trade.

Yeah I think a first was just for him was never an option but talking on a bad contract back and trading him will get us a first but I wouldn’t want there 29 pick this year maybe 2024. It will be interesting the next few days as I can see the Spurs being the third wheel in a trade - cross your fingers.

[Chucho]

Dang, exstatic (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=20) is like the community toilet because everyone takes a shit on him here.

Truth. Guy strikes out for an entire inning with 1 at-bat every time he comes up to the plate.

[R. DeMurre]

the Bulls aren't a "completely different team". They have the same stars they had last year plus DeRozan.



Chicago's Top 7 leaders in minutes, 2021:

1. Coby White
2. Zach LaVine
3. Patrick Williams
4. Thaddeus Young
5. Garrett Temple
6. Lauri Markkanen
7. Tomas Satoransky




Chicago's Top 7 leaders in minutes, 2022:

1. DeMar DeRozan
2. Zach LaVine
3. Nikola Vucevic
4. Lonzo Ball
5. Ayo Dosunmu
6. Coby White
7. Alex Caruso


I dunno, man-- those teams look pretty significantly different to me.

[Leetonidas]

Chicago's Top 7 leaders in minutes, 2021:

Coby White
Zach LaVine
Patrick Williams
Thaddeus Young
Garrett Temple
Lauri Markkanen
Tomas Satoransky




Chicago's Top 7 leaders in minutes, 2022:

DeMar DeRozan
Zach LaVine
Nikola Vucevic
Lonzo Ball
Ayo Dosunmu
Coby White
Alex Caruso


I dunno, man-- those teams look pretty significantly different to me.
https://i.ibb.co/cv9gQ0R/Kx-9mo.gif

[KingKev]

Truth. Guy strikes out for an entire inning with 1 at-bat every time he comes up to the plate.

Ex still puts a certain level of due diligence into many takes which many here are not capable of. We are all a bunch of fanboys(girls) but few here actually research sh!t.

[NASpurs]

Ex still puts a certain level of due diligence into many takes which many here are not capable of. We are all a bunch of fanboys(girls) but few here actually research sh!t.

So he's actually researching things and somehow still end up on the incorrect side of things? That's an extra level of suckitude.

[KingKev]

So he's actually researching things and somehow still end up on the incorrect side of things? That's an extra level of suckitude.

hahahah I don’t disagree.

[mo7888]

Looks like John Collins may have separated his shoulder against Phoenix

[bluebellmaniac]

Looks like John Collins may have separated his shoulder against Phoenix

Discount!

[Robz4000]

Looks like John Collins may have separated his shoulder against Phoenix


Might be able to get him for White, Thad, and that Bulls pick now tbh.

[Chinook]

I mean, it's not like the Spurs need him to play this year...

That's a legit reason to trade for him now, but hopefully, the injury is something that prevents him from being dealt this year. Making a move for him this summer is definitely the better option if it's there.

[Atl Spur]

This season is a wash, all moves should be about gaining asset's.

[tbdog]

I mean, it's not like the Spurs need him to play this year...

That's a legit reason to trade for him now, but hopefully, the injury is something that prevents him from being dealt this year. Making a move for him this summer is definitely the better option if it's there.

Why is it better to get him in the off season? If the spurs keep their 2022 pick, why would it matter? Isn't the Hawks more likely wanting to make a deal now?

[RC_Drunkford]

Spurs should go all in on Collins. Only pick I'd offer is the Chicago pick, but I'm pretty sure they can get him with that

[buttsR4rebounding]

I’d love to see White, McD, and Chicago’s 1st for Collins and filler. Cements the tank this year, gets the starting PF already developed. That’s important because the ballyhooed Spurs development system hasn’t really worked out so well with bigs. It leaves major cap space to either try to bring in a true #1 option or facilitate other trades to gain more assets. It would also ensure Vassel, Primo get all they can eat this year. Probably also kicks the tires on Cacok and Wieskamp. If you luck out and get Holmgren in the draft you really have the foundation of a team that could be special.

[CGD]

Spurs should go all in on Collins. Only pick I'd offer is the Chicago pick, but I'm pretty sure they can get him with that

Looking at the CHI pick protections again (and how decent they are for us), I’m probably keeping that pick especially since it comes after all their “stars” are off their current deals. Honestly, I’d just do the Toronto special with one of our picks in the next 3 years— top 18 protect it. I like the idea of Collins, but I’m also not enamored with it having to be him that solves the PF issues especially if they draft well this year.

[pookenstein]

Spurs should go all in on Collins. Only pick I'd offer is the Chicago pick, but I'm pretty sure they can get him with that

Going all in but only offering the Chi pick plus White/Thad isn't the same thing imo.

[CGD]

Why is it better to get him in the off season? If the spurs keep their 2022 pick, why would it matter? Isn't the Hawks more likely wanting to make a deal now?

If the deal is their you do it, but it does feel like the trade deadline is a bit of a feeling out period and precursor to deals in the summer. Teams (including spurs) are probably making big asks for their players now, but are simultaneously gathering info about what players may be moveable at all and potential framework possibilities for later.

[CGD]

Going all in but only offering the Chi pick plus White/Thad isn't the same thing imo.

Yes, which is why we shouldn’t go “all in”
for Collins.

[pookenstein]

Yes, which is why we shouldn’t go “all in”
for Collins.

Yeah, I'm with you on that. RC Drunkford said he'd go all in but only offer the Chi pick.

[mo7888]

I mean, it's not like the Spurs need him to play this year...

That's a legit reason to trade for him now, but hopefully, the injury is something that prevents him from being dealt this year. Making a move for him this summer is definitely the better option if it's there.

I think I'd rather get him now personally. It let's us move DW without bringing back a player that's expected to play until next year. We can 1) improve our draft position 2) acquire a player that fits for next season, and 3) move a player or two in the offseason to open up room to acquire a third high end player to play between DJ and JoCo.

That's probably as good of a scenario as I can see right now..

[KingKev]

For the record John Collins said he plans to play tonight. Othing out there about him being done for the season.

[mo7888]

For the record John Collins said he plans to play tonight. Othing out there about him being done for the season.

He said that after the game last night...they are running tests this morning to make a determination as to the severity of the injury..

[buttsR4rebounding]

Bleacher Report is saying he will be out 2-3 weeks for what it’s worth.

[John B]

Bleacher Report is saying he will be out 2-3 weeks for what it’s worth.

Get him onboard and keep the tank rolling. Tank for Chet!

[mo7888]

The Clippers are trading Eric Bledsoe, Justise Winslow, Keon Johnson and future second-round pick to the Trail Blazers for Norman Powell and Robert Covington, sources tell ESPN.- woj

Maybe some of thrse deals will get done now..

[Chinook]

That feels like no value at all for Portland. How the mighty have fallen in Covington's case.

[Leetonidas]

so...why did Portland trade Trent Jr to the Raps for Powell if they were just going to salary dump him?? :lmao

[mo7888]

From Portland's perspective it feels like they are about to blow it all up. It's about time too...

[gambit1990]

covington gonna be a spur next year if the clippers can't afford him.

[R. DeMurre]

Whoa, this feels like a steal for the Clippers. Adding Powell & the 6'7" Covington to Kawhi & PG makes for a very tall collection of swing players, none of whom are afraid of or unskilled at shooting threes... Great move for them.

[Floyd Pacquiao]

Jak should be getting moved pretty soon right? That’s why he hasn’t been playing?

[exstatic]

https://twitter.com/dreamville103/status/1489686448295055364?s=21

They did get under the tax, but they took on a shit ton of future money to do so.

[MannyIsGod]

Why the fuck would Portland do that trade?

[KingKev]

https://twitter.com/dreamville103/status/1489686448295055364?s=21

They did get under the tax, but they took on a shit ton of future money to do so.

The Raptors turned Grevis Vasquez into OG and Norm Powell, Norm Powell into Gary Trent.

[R. DeMurre]

covington gonna be a spur next year if the clippers can't afford him.


Steve Ballmer is worth $100 billion.... the payroll tax he'd have to pay would be something like the daily fluctuations in his stock portfolio.

[MannyIsGod]

From Portland's perspective it feels like they are about to blow it all up. It's about time too...

I don't think they're going to blow it up. They obviously wanted to make room in the backcourt Simons, but I don't understand why they wouldn't trade Powell to a team that would actually send them back something valuable.

[pookenstein]

Bulls, Raptors Interested In Jakob Poeltl The San Antonio Spurs are seeking a future first round pick and a quality player in exchange for Jakob Poeltl, sources tell Marc Stein of Substack.
The Chicago Bulls have joined the Toronto Raptors with interest in trading for Poeltl.
Poell is in Year 2 of a three-year, $26.3 million contract.

[MannyIsGod]

I think that's about where the Spurs should be on Poeltl. A good player plus a 1st would be great, but 2 FRP would be even better.

[MannyIsGod]

I think that's about where the Spurs should be on Poeltl. A good player plus a 1st would be great, but 2 FRP would be even better.

[pookenstein]

Pat Williams plus Portlands 2022 pick would work money wise. Would we do it? Would Chicago?

[KingKev]

https://twitter.com/dreamville103/status/1489686448295055364?s=21

They did get under the tax, but they took on a shit ton of future money to do so.

The Raptors turned Grevis Vasquez into OG and Norm Powell, Norm Powell into Gary Trent.

[MannyIsGod]

Pat Williams plus Portlands 2022 pick would work money wise. Would we do it? Would Chicago?

I would happily do this. I am not sure that Chicago would, but I would def do this if I was the Spurs.

[Mr. Body]

I'm not clear on what a 'quality player' would be in a Poeltl trade. He's already one of only three good players on the team and the only center worth playing. I understand the tank mode and possibility they may not resign him after next year, but will what they get be better than him? Neither Chicago nor Toronto will give a FRP better than the #9 at which he was selected - with good return - and neither is going to give a 'quality player' better than him.

[MannyIsGod]

I don't really understand why Chicago wants Jakob tho tbh.

[TD 21]

The Raptors don't have an expendable young player and wouldn't be amendable to making a fair trade even if they did and the Bulls only have White, which doesn't make a lot of sense.


so...why did Portland trade Trent Jr to the Raps for Powell if they were just going to salary dump him?? :lmao

Circumstances changed quickly, but in the end it's more luck for the Raptors.

This is not a good trade for the Trail Blazers, but even though it's a clear talent upgrade for the Clippers with little downside, it's not a great fit either.

They needed a third option who could defend small guards and play make; Powell can't provide either. This could mean Morris is traded next to reduce the tax hit/increase draft capital, but it'd eventually equal more Scumbag at the four, reducing one of their advantages which was size on the wings.

[exstatic]

I don't really understand why Chicago wants Jakob tho tbh.

The Spurs lead the entire NBA in screen assists and contested shots. That’s Jakob, on both sides of the ball. He does all that mostly unnoticed work with only 3 fouls per game. That’s playoff gold, but not for us.

[objective]

That is a catastrophically horrible deal for the Blazers where they just made the clippers so much better when they were already contenders when healthy.

Couldn't even get Boston jr or even a swap for 27 first.

Disgraceful when contenders get everything free, and with a week left in the deadline is even worse

[exstatic]

The Raptors don't have an expendable young player and wouldn't be amendable to making a fair trade even if they did and the Bulls only have White, which doesn't make a lot of sense.



Circumstances changed quickly, but in the end it's more luck for the Raptors.

This is not a good trade for the Trail Blazers, but even though it's a clear talent upgrade for the Clippers with little downside, it's not a great fit either.

They needed a third option who could defend small guards and play make; Powell can't provide either. This could mean Morris is traded next to reduce the tax hit/increase draft capital, but it'd eventually equal more Scumbag at the four, reducing one of their advantages which was size on the wings.

Balmer doesn’t care about the tax.

[MannyIsGod]

The Spurs lead the entire NBA in screen assists and contested shots. That’s Jakob, on both sides of the ball. He does all that mostly unnoticed work with only 3 fouls per game. That’s playoff gold, but not for us.

Sure but they just gave up a lot for a center and now they're going to trade for another one? They can't play them together. I don't think they're in the market for Jakob to be honest. At least not at what the Spurs would want for him.

[exstatic]

Pat Williams plus Portlands 2022 pick would work money wise. Would we do it? Would Chicago?

Yup. A good young player…for NEXT year.

[tbdog]

That trade by Portland. Holy shit, that's awful.

[exstatic]

Sure but they just gave up a lot for a center and now they're going to trade for another one? They can't play them together. I don't think they're in the market for Jakob to be honest. At least not at what the Spurs would want for him.

Maybe they’re looking to move Vooch at the same time?

[exstatic]

That trade by Portland. Holy shit, that's awful.

It’s about $$$. They shed salary, saving them payroll AND will now get the $10M non tax payer distribution this summer.

[Dverde]

Latest rumor is the Spurs close to pulling the trigger on doing absolutely nothing and buying out Trad Young.

[MannyIsGod]

Maybe they’re looking to move Vooch at the same time?

They gave up 2 firsts and want to move on from the guy a year later for Jakob? Yeah I doubt that.

[MannyIsGod]

It’s about $$$. They shed salary, saving them payroll AND will now get the $10M non tax payer distribution this summer.

I refuse to believe there wasn't a deal that saves them money and gives them value for Powell and or Covington. Its a really awful deal for Portland. They literally get no value back.

[exstatic]

They gave up 2 firsts and want to move on from the guy a year later for Jakob? Yeah I doubt that.

:lol. Portland just did something nearly identical. They paid two firsts for RoCo, and just salary dumped him

[TD 21]

Balmer doesn’t care about the tax.

Yeah, but unless Covington is a hedge against Batum opting out and walking or they don't intend to re-sign the former, their depth chart is too wing heavy/"PG" light going forward.

[The Truth #6]

Maybe there was some cash under the table?

[exstatic]

Maybe there was some cash under the table?

There’s cash for Portland this summer. They now get the $10M non taxpayer distribution.

[The Truth #6]

There’s cash for Portland this summer. They now get the $10M non taxpayer distribution.

That would be above the table, so to speak. I was joking about undisclosed cash.

[CGD]

The Clippers are trading Eric Bledsoe, Justise Winslow, Keon Johnson and future second-round pick to the Trail Blazers for Norman Powell and Robert Covington, sources tell ESPN.- woj

Maybe some of thrse deals will get done now..

POR must be high on Keon Johnson, otherwise seems like they could have gotten more for each of those guys individually.

[CGD]

Pat Williams plus Portlands 2022 pick would work money wise. Would we do it? Would Chicago?

In a heartbeat, but CHI really loves Williams.

[mo7888]

POR must be high on Keon Johnson, otherwise seems like they could have gotten more for each of those guys individually.

I think they are keeping Simmons and Keon and try to build around them and move CJ and Lillard this off-season... that's my guess...they might move Nurkic before the deadline so they don't lose him for nothing as well.

[mo7888]

Sources: The Philadelphia 76ers are expected to pursue Brooklyn's James Harden ahead of NBA trade deadline Thursday – and the Nets are now open to discussing a deal.

Shams

[cjw]

That trade by Portland. Holy shit, that's awful.

That trade is the fantasy football equivalent of a 100 email long chain of complaints. How on earth did Portland agree to that?

[KingKev]

The Raptors don't have an expendable young player and wouldn't be amendable to making a fair trade even if they did and the Bulls only have White, which doesn't make a lot of sense.



Circumstances changed quickly, but in the end it's more luck for the Raptors.

This is not a good trade for the Trail Blazers, but even though it's a clear talent upgrade for the Clippers with little downside, it's not a great fit either.

They needed a third option who could defend small guards and play make; Powell can't provide either. This could mean Morris is traded next to reduce the tax hit/increase draft capital, but it'd eventually equal more Scumbag at the four, reducing one of their advantages which was size on the wings.

Massaj wouldn’t hire Brian Wright as his errand boy. Unpaid, still a no. Massai is a G.

[CGD]

Sources: The Philadelphia 76ers are expected to pursue Brooklyn's James Harden ahead of NBA trade deadline Thursday – and the Nets are now open to discussing a deal.

Shams

WOW

[TD 21]

Biased national media types will spin it as extremely wealthy owner/"intelligent front office" doing work, but it's bad optics for the league as it continues to look like a feeder system.


I think they are keeping Simmons and Keon and try to build around them and move CJ and Lillard this off-season... that's my guess...they might move Nurkic before the deadline so they don't lose him for nothing as well.

They're trying to re-tool around Lillard on the fly, but a Lillard-Simmons back court would have as much as more defensive issues as a Lillard-McCollum one. Apparently Nurkic has low value.



Massaj wouldn’t hire Brian Wright as his errand boy. Unpaid, still a no. Massai is a G.

:lmao At this board continuing to believe that Wright is the lead decision maker. Classic case of blame the "black" (biracial) man.

[Leetonidas]

Pat Williams plus Portlands 2022 pick would work money wise. Would we do it? Would Chicago?

Chicago has Portlands first this year? Hell yes I'm taking that deal then. Williams would be a great pickup when healthy and Spurs end up with another lotto pick. Do it Mitch err I mean Brian

[John B]

Massaj wouldn’t hire Brian Wright as his errand boy. Unpaid, still a no. Massai is a G.

I just hope that Wright is not left with his hand on Thad’s contract when everything settles.

[MannyIsGod]

Damn that simmons trade is actually going to happen huh

[mo7888]

Biased national media types will spin it as extremely wealthy owner/"intelligent front office" doing work, but it's bad optics for the league as it continues to look like a feeder system.



They're trying to re-tool around Lillard on the fly, but a Lillard-Simmons back court would have as much as more defensive issues as a Lillard-McCollum one. Apparently Nurkic has low value.




:lmao At this board continuing to believe that Wright is the lead decision maker. Classic case of blame the "black" (biracial) man.

You definitely could be correct but, my money is still on them moving Lillard this off-season..

[KingKev]

The Raptors don't have an expendable young player and wouldn't be amendable to making a fair trade even if they did and the Bulls only have White, which doesn't make a lot of sense.



Circumstances changed quickly, but in the end it's more luck for the Raptors.

This is not a good trade for the Trail Blazers, but even though it's a clear talent upgrade for the Clippers with little downside, it's not a great fit either.

They needed a third option who could defend small guards and play make; Powell can't provide either. This could mean Morris is traded next to reduce the tax hit/increase draft capital, but it'd eventually equal more Scumbag at the four, reducing one of their advantages which was size on the wings.

Massaj wouldn’t hire Brian Wright as his errand boy. Unpaid still a no.

[John B]

Damn that simmons trade is actually going to happen huh

Simmons playing with Patty at Nets? I mean without Harden, I could root for Nets to go all the way.

[exstatic]

Damn that simmons trade is actually going to happen huh

There has to be another team or teams involved. If this is straight up, neither Kyrie or Simmons could play in home games. Durant is also currently out.

[RC_Drunkford]

Yeah, I'm with you on that. RC Drunkford said he'd go all in but only offer the Chi pick.


I mean the Spurs have some 2nd rounders they can throw in and the Detroit pick is actually a high 2nd. There is no way where I would offer 2 firsts for Collins in our current situation. But 1 pick, White, Walker, McDermott and Thad Young should all be on the table. I rather meant they should really push to get a deal done, not get fleeced :lol

[Chinook]

Chicago has Portlands first this year? Hell yes I'm taking that deal then. Williams would be a great pickup when healthy and Spurs end up with another lotto pick. Do it Mitch err I mean Brian

Portland's pick is like the Detroit first OKC owns. It's lottery protected for years and shunts into a second in like 2027. It's not a good asset.

[Chinook]

There has to be another team or teams involved. If this is straight up, neither Kyrie or Simmons could play in home games.

Simmons is reportedly vaccinated.

[The Truth #6]

Biased national media types will spin it as extremely wealthy owner/"intelligent front office" doing work, but it's bad optics for the league as it continues to look like a feeder system.



They're trying to re-tool around Lillard on the fly, but a Lillard-Simmons back court would have as much as more defensive issues as a Lillard-McCollum one. Apparently Nurkic has low value.




:lmao At this board continuing to believe that Wright is the lead decision maker. Classic case of blame the "black" (biracial) man.

While praising the other black guy? That’s ridiculous.

[Leetonidas]

Portland's pick is like the Detroit first OKC owns. It's lottery protected for years and shunts into a second in like 2027. It's not a good asset.

Thanks for clarifying:tu

[exstatic]

Simmons is reportedly vaccinated.

That’s news. He wasn’t when all of this started in Nov.

[KingKev]

Biased national media types will spin it as extremely wealthy owner/"intelligent front office" doing work, but it's bad optics for the league as it continues to look like a feeder system.



They're trying to re-tool around Lillard on the fly, but a Lillard-Simmons back court would have as much as more defensive issues as a Lillard-McCollum one. Apparently Nurkic has low value.




:lmao At this board continuing to believe that Wright is the lead decision maker. Classic case of blame the "black" (biracial) man.

Pop couldn’t either. Imagine Coach Pop at the poker table? He belongs at the slots.

[RC_Drunkford]

Blazers GM is doing coke with Nasir Little. What kinda dumbass trade is that?

[RC_Drunkford]

via Marc Stein


To convince San Antonio to surrender Jakob Poeltl, sources say, would require a future first-round pick and a quality player (https://marcstein.substack.com/p/one-more-gust-of-friday-trade-winds?token=eyJ1c2VyX2lkIjoxNjkxNTY4LCJwb3N0X2lkIj o0ODE3MDIyMiwiXyI6InpEdGx1IiwiaWF0IjoxNjQ0MDAzNjEz LCJleHAiOjE2NDQwMDcyMTMsImlzcyI6InB1Yi0zOTIyMDUiLC JzdWIiOiJwb3N0LXJlYWN0aW9uIn0.AZzgLdRZYIIF_-NK3dAEmHvUWOLbavRzx5F4T7l60TQ)

The Spurs would be more open to moving Poeltl had Gregg Popovich already broken the league’s all-time record for coaching victories. (https://marcstein.substack.com/p/one-more-gust-of-friday-trade-winds?token=eyJ1c2VyX2lkIjoxNjkxNTY4LCJwb3N0X2lkIj o0ODE3MDIyMiwiXyI6InpEdGx1IiwiaWF0IjoxNjQ0MDAzNjEz LCJleHAiOjE2NDQwMDcyMTMsImlzcyI6InB1Yi0zOTIyMDUiLC JzdWIiOiJwb3N0LXJlYWN0aW9uIn0.AZzgLdRZYIIF_-NK3dAEmHvUWOLbavRzx5F4T7l60TQ) Popovich remains seven shy of passing his pal Don Nelson’s 1,335 career wins.

:lmao Pop still holding the franchise hostage

[The Truth #6]

“Surrender” Jak? That’s obnoxious.

[Mr. Body]

Really don't think Stein has been right about much for a while now. And the Spurs don't have to trade Poeltl. That's the good old major media creating narratives once again.

[KingKev]

That’s news. He wasn’t when all of this started in Nov.

This started late summer. Players are not required to publicly divulge vaccination status.

[CGD]

Portland's pick is like the Detroit first OKC owns. It's lottery protected for years and shunts into a second in like 2027. It's not a good asset.

It’s also not awful either. Here are the actual protections:

2022 first round draft pick from Portland
Portland's 1st round pick to Chicago protected for selections 1-14 in 2022, 1-14 in 2023, 1-14 in 2024, 1-14 in 2025, 1-14 in 2026, 1-14 in 2027 and 1-14 in 2028; if Portland has not conveyed a 1st round pick to Chicago by 2028, then Portland will instead convey its 2028 2nd round pick to Chicago

[exstatic]

This started late summer. Players are not required to publicly divulge vaccination status.

No, they’re not. Folks usually find out when they’re not, though.

I think it was divulged when he first went back to Philly. Apparently, it’s changed since.

[mo7888]

No, they’re not. Folks usually find out when they’re not, though.

I think it was divulged when he first went back to Philly. Apparently, it’s changed since.

You are correct. When BS came back to Philly it was reported that he was unvaccinated at that time. I've seen nothing on it either way since..

[BacktoBasics]

You are correct. When BS came back to Philly it was reported that he was unvaccinated at that time. I've seen nothing on it either way since..

Its been reported in a few places. I just grabbed the first one returned on a search.


All those Simmons destinations look more plausible now.

Simmons reportedly reported to the 76ers unvaccinated in October. But his status has changed.

Ramona Shelburne of ESPN:

"sources say Simmons chose to get vaccinated."

https://nba.nbcsports.com/2022/02/02/report-ben-simmons-has-gotten-vaccinated/

[TD 21]

While praising the other black guy? That’s ridiculous.

Only because he "won" a tainted championship.

If you're going to blame Wright for the Spurs predicament, then by definition you should be crediting Webster (Raptors GM) for theirs.



Pop couldn’t either. Imagine Coach Pop at the poker table? He belongs at the slots.

Pop is overrated (virtually all successful executives/coaches are) and deserves his share of blame, but he's also won 5, nearly 6 above reproach championships in a small market and presided over the most successful/model franchise in sports for 2 decades, yet somehow he now has less credibility than a puke who's one shining moment he provided.

[KingKev]

Only because he "won" a tainted championship.

If you're going to blame Wright for the Spurs predicament, then by definition you should be crediting Webster (Raptors GM) for theirs.




Pop is overrated (virtually all successful executives/coaches are) and deserves his share of blame, but he's also won 5, nearly 6 above reproach championships in a small market and presided over the most successful/model franchise in sports for 2 decades, yet somehow he now has less credibility than a puke who's one shining moment he provided.

He is a great coach and has had great achievements in scouting, free agency and development of players over the years. If Pop remains heavily involved in trades and signing the last 5 years, including the return of Kahwi he has clearly lost a step.

Massai is making all the right moves.

[jjspur]

Blazers GM is doing coke with Nasir Little. What kinda dumbass trade is that?
Its the kind of trade that a desperate dumbass front office makes ... apparently one worse than ours. We hardly make any trades, Portland makes really bad ones.

[Chinook]

It’s also not awful either. Here are the actual protections:

2022 first round draft pick from Portland
Portland's 1st round pick to Chicago protected for selections 1-14 in 2022, 1-14 in 2023, 1-14 in 2024, 1-14 in 2025, 1-14 in 2026, 1-14 in 2027 and 1-14 in 2028; if Portland has not conveyed a 1st round pick to Chicago by 2028, then Portland will instead convey its 2028 2nd round pick to Chicago

Yeah, that's not good. Lottery protected until 2028 rather than just 2027. I wouldn't put it out of the realm of possibility that that pick ends up being a second. I certainly wouldn't count on it being a first for quite some time.

[Mr. Body]

Wasn't Portland really close to the tax? The pay-out for non-payers is going to be huge this year, I think a record. Did this get Portland under the number?

[KingKev]

Its the kind of trade that a desperate dumbass front office makes ... apparently one worse than ours. We hardly make any trades, Portland makes really bad ones.

They over paid for RoCo from the jump but they are clearly setting up for a reset and Powell had 75mm remaining on his deal. They did just save 20 or so million towards their cap for 2021-22 and I like the idea of getting ahead of the trade deadline to get things done.