Spurs Trade Rumor Thread (Spurs eyeing Collins, Osman? Fielding calls on Jak?)

[MannyIsGod]

That is such nonsense. That bonus was 150k. That is such a rounding error in any NBA trade. You are smarter than this.

If the bonus is indeed that small I agree with you. Where's that info.

[R. DeMurre]

Don’t know if you’ve been keeping up, but the bench time for Thad was pretty intentional. We wanted to flip him to a playoff team, but he had a playoff bonus in his contract. He needed a certain amount of games played, and it is now impossible for him to meet the threshold. Holding him out made it easier to trade him.


It's understandable that the Spurs were in rebuild mode, but also understandable that Thad would've been upset wasting half a season this late in his career...

[Teamduncan21]

Thad got benched because he publicly whined. Doesn't look like strategy or some sort

[JeffDuncan]

If the bonus is indeed that small I agree with you. Where's that info.


The earlier post is incorrect according to spotrac. Their info looks like this:

2021-22: LTBE: $0, ULTBE: $1,000,000 (>= 64 regular season games + wins/playoffs + 24 MPG, All-Defense, All-Star, Most Improved Player)

ULTBE=Unlikely To Be Earned

It was 1M but required 64 games at 24 min/gm, or better, and the playoffs. I’m not familiar enough with their notation to be sure what “wins/playoffs” means, precisely. Or he could have earned it by being named MIP, All Star, or All Defense.

That was part of his contract which the Spurs inherited. It was the same for all three years.

It was never taken into account for his playing time by the Spurs. That’s a silly notion. Thad did not get playing time for exactly the reason both Thad and Pop publicly stated. The Spurs are rebuilding, and they had to give the minutes to the younger players, to assess the team’s situation. Thad was not part of the Spurs future plans, too old.

If the Spurs had started strong, and raised serious playoff hopes, Thad might have played a lot. Didn’t happen.

[Chinook]

If the bonus is indeed that small I agree with you. Where's that info.

If Sportac can be trusted, Thad had a $1-Million playing time bonus where he had to play in at least 65 games and average at least 24 MPG in those games (or basically win superstar awards in other areas). Last year, Young BARELY qualified for that, meaning it was factored into his cap number this season. While him missing the bonus didn't change anything for the Spurs, the incentive does get recalculated as part of a trade. So when he was going to be dealt to Toronto, his play-time bonus was reevaluated and reclassified as unlikely, and his cap number reverted to just his base salary. That meant he went from counting as $14.1 Million on the Spurs' outgoing ledger to $13.1 Million on Toronto's incoming ledger.

To be clear, Thad wasn't getting any of that million in his checks. The checks are for his base salary. Wasn't going to get paid $150k or whatever and now won't. It's just that neither Toronto nor SA will have to cut him a check this year.

To be clearer, this doesn't mean that Ex is wrong about if Young had a specific bonuses for the various markers that total up to $1 Million and Sportac is just not breaking it down. I just haven't seen that specific breakdown anywhere.

[JeffDuncan]

... That meant he went from counting as $14.1 Million on the Spurs' outgoing ledger to $13.1 Million on Toronto's incoming ledger. …


That appears to be incorrect. Thad is currently showing for Toronto at $14,190,000 base salary (of which $4.8M remains to be paid.)

[KingKev]

Bobby Marks has been cited as saying his games played + playoff bonus for this year was 150k, 1 million total was probably if all of the above happened with each piece additive to his compensation package.

Regardless Thad’s bonus was not a deciding factor in his role with the Spurs.

[Chinook]

That appears to be incorrect. Thad is currently showing for Toronto at $14,190,000 base salary (of which $4.8M remains to be paid.)

While I reserve the right to be wrong, I think Young's incentives not being corrected is a more likely explanation.

[RC_Drunkford]

who cares, all that matters is we also got rid of Drew Eubanks. Killed 2 birds with 1 stone here

[JeffDuncan]

who cares, all that matters is we also got rid of Drew Eubanks. Killed 2 birds with 1 stone here


Ditto, it was very nicely done, to move Eubanks like that.

[ace3g]

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The Hawks had various conversations centered on Ben Simmons, CJ McCollum and Derrick White, sources tell @ChrisKirschner (https://twitter.com/ChrisKirschner/). The Spurs were set on Bogdan Bogdanovic and a first-round pick for White, but Atlanta wasn't interested in that deal. More: theathletic.com/3125368/?sourc… (https://t.co/OMuXK8HPOG)
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FLWMlgFUYAEvANv?format=jpg&name=small (https://t.co/47w3l6dYpv)


4:01pm · 11 Feb 2022 (https://twitter.com/TheAthleticNBA/status/1492257386127527936) · Twitter Web App (https://help.twitter.com/en/using-twitter/how-to-tweet#source-labels)

[Dverde]

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The Hawks had various conversations centered on Ben Simmons, CJ McCollum and Derrick White, sources tell @ChrisKirschner (https://twitter.com/ChrisKirschner/). The Spurs were set on Bogdan Bogdanovic and a first-round pick for White, but Atlanta wasn't interested in that deal. More: theathletic.com/3125368/?sourc… (https://t.co/OMuXK8HPOG)
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FLWMlgFUYAEvANv?format=jpg&name=small (https://t.co/47w3l6dYpv)


4:01pm · 11 Feb 2022 (https://twitter.com/TheAthleticNBA/status/1492257386127527936) · Twitter Web App (https://help.twitter.com/en/using-twitter/how-to-tweet#source-labels)


:lol Spurstalk clutching their precious John Collins candles and the Spurs didn’t even want him.

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/jeffgspurszone/status/1492295930879614982?s=21


Everyone was on the same page in the front office

[K...]

:lol Spurstalk clutching their precious John Collins candles and the Spurs didn’t even want him.

I'm sure they knew atlanta's price for collins and it required picks the other way.

[Chinook]

The Spurs are seemingly desperate to make Johnson work as the PF. I don't mind them not wanting to play two traditional bigs, but I really hope they're willing to consider a bigger wing for that spot. They realized Derrick wasn't a keeper. That's good. They need to be willing to do the same thing with Keldon.

[KobesAchilles]

The Spurs are seemingly desperate to make Johnson work as the PF. I don't mind them not wanting to play two traditional bigs, but I really hope they're willing to consider a bigger wing for that spot. They realized Derrick wasn't a keeper. That's good. They need to be willing to do the same thing with Keldon.
I feel like KJ is a keeper. But off the bench. You don’t get rid of guys who shoot the ball like him and have the drive he has. He has a lot of flaws physically but his energy, hustle, toughness, and shooting are things we all need.

[TDMVPDPOY]

The Spurs are seemingly desperate to make Johnson work as the PF. I don't mind them not wanting to play two traditional bigs, but I really hope they're willing to consider a bigger wing for that spot. They realized Derrick wasn't a keeper. That's good. They need to be willing to do the same thing with Keldon.

unless keldon moves to the sf and vasell to sg/sf... then we have a big backcourt lineup...

just need a real fkn big down low...any big would do doesnt matter if he cant shoot the 3...

[KingKev]

https://twitter.com/jeffgspurszone/status/1492295930879614982?s=21


Everyone was on the same page in the front office

or Pop has less of a say or care about on his way out. Either way he won’t publicly critique his coworkers. Pop needs to coach whoever BW brings in from here on out. Pop would never have made those trades if he was in charge though.

[KingKev]

I feel like KJ is a keeper. But off the bench. You don’t get rid of guys who shoot the ball like him and have the drive he has. He has a lot of flaws physically but his energy, hustle, toughness, and shooting are things we all need.

Normalize all of this with Keldon’s rookie extension at <15mm a year and I agree.

[CGD]

The Spurs are seemingly desperate to make Johnson work as the PF. I don't mind them not wanting to play two traditional bigs, but I really hope they're willing to consider a bigger wing for that spot. They realized Derrick wasn't a keeper. That's good. They need to be willing to do the same thing with Keldon.

Keldon is playing there out of necessity/lack of team talent at that position. Want to see him in a better role like super sub off bench before moving him, but I do think he is the next guy up with positive value that could fetch something in the trade market.

[RC_Drunkford]

The Spurs are seemingly desperate to make Johnson work as the PF. I don't mind them not wanting to play two traditional bigs, but I really hope they're willing to consider a bigger wing for that spot. They realized Derrick wasn't a keeper. That's good. They need to be willing to do the same thing with Keldon.

nah they just need a real PF so Keldon can slide to SF and McDermott goes to the bench. That would fix most issues on this team

[Mr. Body]

:lol Spurstalk clutching their precious John Collins candles and the Spurs didn’t even want him.

I would bet good, hard money the Spurs have never, ever been interested in John Collins. It was purely ST imagination.

[Chinook]

Keldon is playing there out of necessity/lack of team talent at that position. Want to see him in a better role like super sub off bench before moving him, but I do think he is the next guy up with positive value that could fetch something in the trade market.

Johnson is not playing PF out of necessity. The Spurs have gotten rid of almost all of their forwards and seemingly were looking for a guard in return for White regardless. I agree about the rest of the post, but dude is a four, and if he played with some bulky 6-9 guy next to him, the Spurs would be playing two PFs.

[PhantomDashCam]

The Spurs are seemingly desperate to make Johnson work as the PF. I don't mind them not wanting to play two traditional bigs, but I really hope they're willing to consider a bigger wing for that spot. They realized Derrick wasn't a keeper. That's good. They need to be willing to do the same thing with Keldon.

I don’t agree with this at all.
Derrick wasn’t traded because he wasn’t a keeper, he was traded because the package was in the Spurs favour when thinking of the team’s current standings and ceiling moving forward.

Keldon has already improved tremendously as a perimeter shooter, in an off-season with Olympic duties and significant team turnover. Why are we betting against him shedding a few lbs and improving his perimeter Defense?

KJ may always be somewhat of a tweener but that’s no reason to move him.

[mo7888]

I don’t agree with this at all.
Derrick wasn’t traded because he wasn’t a keeper, he was traded because the package was in the Spurs favour when thinking of the team’s current standings and ceiling moving forward.

Keldon has already improved tremendously as a perimeter shooter, in an off-season with Olympic duties and significant team turnover. Why are we betting against him shedding a few lbs and improving his perimeter Defense?

KJ may always be somewhat of a tweener but that’s no reason to move him.

Not being a keeper doesn't mean DW isn’t a good player....it just means he's not who we should build around based on age and style of play next to others on the team....it's not a knock on him...

[XDT76]

Johnson is not playing PF out of necessity. The Spurs have gotten rid of almost all of their forwards and seemingly were looking for a guard in return for White regardless. I agree about the rest of the post, but dude is a four, and if he played with some bulky 6-9 guy next to him, the Spurs would be playing two PFs.


He has the build and speed of a PF but the size of a SG. He is a very good player but has glaring issues when he play either forward position. When he play PF he is unable to provide internal and help defense and defensive rebound. When he is playing SF, he is easily blown by and forcing other players to rotate to help cover him.

[PhantomDashCam]

Not being a keeper doesn't mean DW isn’t a good player....it just means he's not who we should build around based on age and style of play next to others on the team....it's not a knock on him...

I’m not a fan of the term “not a keeper” for what it implies, especially when talking about a player of Derrick’s calibre/versatility.
It suggests that Derrick wasn’t getting it done in one way or another and should be sent away from the team as quickly, efficiently as possible.

I could understand using it for say Lonnie Walker.

And I guarantee if you told any professional athlete in a team sport that they are “not a keeper” they understand what that means….We don’t want you/You’re not good enough.

[Chinook]

I don’t agree with this at all.
Derrick wasn’t traded because he wasn’t a keeper, he was traded because the package was in the Spurs favour when thinking of the team’s current standings and ceiling moving forward.

So White was traded because he wasn't a keeper. If he was a keeper, they would not have traded him. That doesn't mean White is bad (I actually still think he could've been the best player on the Spurs), but the Spurs realized they had to start moving guys rather than just keeping anyone who wasn't terrible.


Keldon has already improved tremendously as a perimeter shooter, in an off-season with Olympic duties and significant team turnover. Why are we betting against him shedding a few lbs and improving his perimeter Defense?

Johnson's a PF. He's not even a particularly agile PF. So hopefully he does get better at perimeter defense and all that, but him doing so doesn't just make him a three. It's like how people thought his shooting is what made him a four, when in reality a lot of PFs can shoot at a good clip and passable shooting is just a requirement for the job in most cases.


KJ may always be somewhat of a tweener but that’s no reason to move him.

I think you've gotten yourself in a bit of a quandary. If you think White was moved because they got good value out of him, I don't know why you assume they wouldn't get the same for Johnson (for many of the same reasons). I also don't know why you assume the Spurs being willing to move Keldon is the same thing as they dumping him immediately. For the most part, trades do not work the way you seem to believe they do, or at least believe I think they do. Trades are not a punishment visited upon bad players. They are not something that good players or those with potential can avoid. They are just a consequence of a team trying to improve their position.

My argument is that the Spurs have to consider their PF position (and arguably their entire front court) unresolved rather than trying to make Johnson work as a matter of course. From what I've seen, they have little interest in getting bigger wings onto their roster to even entertain Keldon moving down, so arguing that I am the one "not giving him a chance" feels wrong. The Spurs have had numerous opportunities to play bigger lineups, including trading one of their redundant guards for a forward. It didn't have to be Collins, and I frankly wasn't expecting it to be. But it wasn't even a guy like Grant Williams, who's actually a very fascinating utility forward despite his own height. I don't think the team is interested in playing Johnson at any other position, and to be honest, I don't disagree with them. What I want, though, is for them to realize that there are other PFs out there. Not just vets like Collins, but there are a shit ton of the in the draft as well.

Keldon, both as an individual and as a starter, isn't the end-all/be-all of the team. That doesn't mean that he can't keep improving. That doesn't mean he can't be a Spur for life who plays a prominent role. But it does mean that the Spurs need to keep looking for their foundation. At best, Murray is part of it. If so, it's just him for now. Vassell, Johnson, Primo and the pick -- maybe something comes of them -- but until/unless that happens, they aren't those guys. The Spurs are rebuilding, not reloading. They don't have safe ground in sight right now. They accepted that the Murray/White pairing wasn't stable enough to build with. They need to maintain that insight going forward until proven otherwise.

[baseline bum]

Gotta hand it to Toronto-- they've managed their team very well for a number of years now. The Kawhi trade was a daring one, and resulted in a championship-- and then post-championship, they eventually lost 5 of their top 7 players from that team-- Kawhi, Lowry, Danny Green, Serge, Gasol-- and only had one down year as a result, going 27-45 before bouncing back this year to be in the playoff hunt again. I really hope Thaddeus has a good playoff run with them because he deserves it after being stuck in a pretty tough situation, sitting on the bench for a tanking team, watching guys like Eubanks, Forbes, & Walker get more minutes than him. Just look at the disparity in the evaluation of his game: In San Antonio, there was actually a Thad vs Eubanks discussion, but for Toronto Thad was worthy of a FRP while Eubanks was immediately waived as nothing more than trade fodder... It's understandable that the Spurs were in rebuild mode, but also understandable that Thad would've been upset wasting half a season this late in his career...

I hope Thaddeus has a huge regular season so the Spurs get their pick. I could give a shit about their postseason.

[Chinook]

I’m not a fan of the term “not a keeper” for what it implies, especially when talking about a player of Derrick’s calibre/versatility.
It suggests that Derrick wasn’t getting it done in one way or another and should be sent away from the team as quickly, efficiently as possible.

I could understand using it for say Lonnie Walker.

And I guarantee if you told any professional athlete in a team sport that they are “not a keeper” they understand what that means….We don’t want you/You’re not good enough.

So this is you reading way too much into things. The Spurs arguably don't have any keepers on the roster right now, and I think they have 15 NBA players, a number of whom would be solid or better starters. They're not in a place where being an NBA-caliber rotation player means they Spurs should keep them. The Spurs are the ones who aren't good enough right now to truly extract value from them, not the players themselves.

Of course you can define it however you want, but I'm not going to accept your framing of it in how it applies to my usage. You may think you have to basically fail out of Spurs Academy to qualify, but I very directly do not.

[baseline bum]

I’m not a fan of the term “not a keeper” for what it implies, especially when talking about a player of Derrick’s calibre/versatility.
It suggests that Derrick wasn’t getting it done in one way or another and should be sent away from the team as quickly, efficiently as possible.

I could understand using it for say Lonnie Walker.

And I guarantee if you told any professional athlete in a team sport that they are “not a keeper” they understand what that means….We don’t want you/You’re not good enough.

Lonnie Walker wasn't getting them a first round pick.

[duncan2150]

Lonnie Walker wasn't getting them a first round pick.

+1

[r0drig0lac]

nah they just need a real PF so Keldon can slide to SF and McDermott goes to the bench. That would fix most issues on this team

this

[PhantomDashCam]

So White was traded because he wasn't a keeper. If he was a keeper, they would not have traded him. That doesn't mean White is bad (I actually still think he could've been the best player on the Spurs), but the Spurs realized they had to start moving guys rather than just keeping anyone who wasn't terrible…

If you think White was moved because they got good value out of him, I don't know why you assume they wouldn't get the same for Johnson (for many of the same reasons).


I’ll be honest, I didn’t anything I said warranted the diatribe you went on.

The Celtics paid handsomely, well above market value for “not a keeper”. The Spurs weren’t dangling Derrick (from what has been reported), but were listening to offers like any rebuilding team should.
This was not a case of one man’s trash…

If you’re going to reduce subjective terminology such as “not a keeper” to binary definitions, what are we calling Luka Samanic? Not a keeper squared? There is no way anybody would suggest there impact was the same yet they would both fit under your loose characterisation.
Some could argue that perhaps you’re not looking into what you’re writing enough…

Keldon’s a PF by your definition too. Doesn’t necessarily make it so. You’ve pigeonholed him, his 3rd year in the league, for the rest of his career.
People thought DJ wasn’t a PG and that looks to be playing out just fine…

[dbestpro]

By size we play Keldon out of position at PF. While many say there is no difference between SF and SG in today's NBA many SGs tend to be slightly smaller in size and frame. I would like to see Keldon given a shot at SG forcing the smaller of SF/SG to defend him. He could post up, drive or hit the three.He would be a nightmare to guard. Just like Murray is redefining the PG role with his rebounding, so could Keldon do something similar at the SG with posting up.

[CGD]

Lonnie Walker wasn't getting them a first round pick.

I think the best outcome under the circumstances for Team and player is to trade Lonnie for another misfit/underperformer from his draft that also didn’t get extended. As an example only, a swap of Lonnie for Knox could give each other a needed sea change.

[mo7888]

I’ll be honest, I didn’t anything I said warranted the diatribe you went on.

The Celtics paid handsomely, well above market value for “not a keeper”. The Spurs weren’t dangling Derrick (from what has been reported), but were listening to offers like any rebuilding team should.
This was not a case of one man’s trash…

If you’re going to reduce subjective terminology such as “not a keeper” to binary definitions, what are we calling Luka Samanic? Not a keeper squared? There is no way anybody would suggest there impact was the same yet they would both fit under your loose characterisation.
Some could argue that perhaps you’re not looking into what you’re writing enough…

Keldon’s a PF by your definition too. Doesn’t necessarily make it so. You’ve pigeonholed him, his 3rd year in the league, for the rest of his career.
People thought DJ wasn’t a PG and that looks to be playing out just fine…

If it makes you feel better about the semantics of the situation just know DW is a "keeper" for the Celtics.... that should be comforting....like a warm blanket in the winter time...

[CGD]

Just reading some of the scuttlebutt I missed from the deadline, and thought it was very noteworthy that Pacer and Suns had talks about Ayton-Sabonis.

Something is off with that Ayton situation in Phoenix, and hop our guys are keeping tabs.

[rankingtear]

By size we play Keldon out of position at PF. While many say there is no difference between SF and SG in today's NBA many SGs tend to be slightly smaller in size and frame. I would like to see Keldon given a shot at SG forcing the smaller of SF/SG to defend him. He could post up, drive or hit the three.He would be a nightmare to guard. Just like Murray is redefining the PG role with his rebounding, so could Keldon do something similar at the SG with posting up.

If your listed at SG does not mean the other teams SG would guard you.

[buttsR4rebounding]

If your listed at SG does not mean the other teams SG would guard you.

Or that he could guard other SGs.

[dbestpro]

If your listed at SG does not mean the other teams SG would guard you.
That's a given but the plays called can create those isolations. By referring to SG is just a means to refer to forcing the opposition into mismatches where Keldon has the advantage rather than making him go up against bigs.

[rankingtear]

That's a given but the plays called can create those isolations. By referring to SG is just a means to refer to forcing the opposition into mismatches where Keldon has the advantage rather than making him go up against bigs.

I don't see the correlation of being a SG and forcing a switch into a smaller player. It's not like being a PF prevents you from forcing a switch to a smaller player, teams do it all the time.

[John B]

By size we play Keldon out of position at PF. While many say there is no difference between SF and SG in today's NBA many SGs tend to be slightly smaller in size and frame. I would like to see Keldon given a shot at SG forcing the smaller of SF/SG to defend him. He could post up, drive or hit the three.He would be a nightmare to guard. Just like Murray is redefining the PG role with his rebounding, so could Keldon do something similar at the SG with posting up.

Vassell will already be doing that with his smaller defender :lol

[exstatic]

I think the best outcome under the circumstances for Team and player is to trade Lonnie for another misfit/underperformer from his draft that also didn’t get extended. As an example only, a swap of Lonnie for Knox could give each other a needed sea change.

That would have been a good outcome at the deadline, but both of their contracts will expire this summer, and I doubt either team would be interested in a S&T.

[CGD]

That would have been a good outcome at the deadline, but both of their contracts will expire this summer, and I doubt either team would be interested in a S&T.

Makes sense. Do you think there are better odds of SA simply not tendering LW the QO (or pulling it later), than them holding on to him one more year?

[Chinook]

I’ll be honest, I didn’t anything I said warranted the diatribe you went on.

The Celtics paid handsomely, well above market value for “not a keeper”. The Spurs weren’t dangling Derrick (from what has been reported), but were listening to offers like any rebuilding team should.
This was not a case of one man’s trash…

I'd still argue the Celtics underpaid for White. I don't think the Spurs should have traded him at this point and have said as much multiple times. Still doesn't make White a keeper in the context I said it. The same was true for George Hill back in 2011, and he also went for a big haul to a team that considered him a finishing piece for their talented wing group. The point of the "diatribe" I went on was me making the case for the Spurs not being able to define being a keeper in the same way that you want them to or Boston or Indy in 2011 might have done.


If you’re going to reduce subjective terminology such as “not a keeper” to binary definitions, what are we calling Luka Samanic? Not a keeper squared? There is no way anybody would suggest there impact was the same yet they would both fit under your loose characterisation.
Some could argue that perhaps you’re not looking into what you’re writing enough…

This doesn't make sense. The difference between us isn't that I am being "binary" and you're not. It's that you have a different place in the sliding scale you designate for that term. Samanic and White can both "not be keepers" while Sam is a guy you cut if you need a spot and White is a guy you trade for value. This is obvious because if you moved it down to your line, White would be a keeper you'd trade and Murray would be a keeper you don't. If anything, it makes much more sense to use the term to mean players you ... you know, keep, without worrying about how you go about not keeping the others. The Spurs are going to be cycling through talent for a bit. They can't afford to label everyone who's not bad a keeper. They don't have the roster spot, let alone developmental priority slots, to let guys get entrenched who aren't part of the foundation. Again, that doesn't mean treating all of them the same, but it does mean continuing to try to improve and not letting them dictate the rest of the rotation.


Keldon’s a PF by your definition too. Doesn’t necessarily make it so. You’ve pigeonholed him, his 3rd year in the league, for the rest of his career.
People thought DJ wasn’t a PG and that looks to be playing out just fine…

I actually think talk of Murray being a two is dumb and have always said so. I think the distinction between the two positions wasn't going to resolve any of Murray's issues.

Anyways, I'm not the one or at least the main one who is pigeonholing Johnson. I do think he's an obvious PF and isn't particularly close to changing that. But I also think that Pop believes that, and my initial contribution to this discussion was commenting on how averse the Spurs seem to be about getting other PFs on the roster in order to try to move Johnson to SF. People keep saying he's only playing there out of necessity, and that's not true. The Spurs have had plenty of chances to put a bigger PF there, and they just don't want to do it. If you think about all of the players the Spurs have moved on from this season, the bulk of them are PFs or combo front-court players of some variety. The Spurs are the ones deliberately creating this situation where Johnson is the PF. I don't see any reason to believe it's Johnson's or PATFO's ambition to get Keldon to play SF. Just like Murray playing the two, Johnson playing the three is part of some fan's wishes, but not necessarily something that's going to happen.

[Degoat]

You know I’ve been thinking and I may be off but I think the spurs may have improved the team not only in the long term but the short term too at the trade deadline lol the fact that Eubanks is gone and won’t be seeing any time on the floor is a big positive for the team this season and DWhite was probably my favorite player but even he himself had several stinker games this year

[John B]

^ Keldon is defending the other teams PF true. But on offense, his back is not towards the basket like a PF, but rather stays around perimeters, not a mere stretch 4 but often driving like a SF. While I’ve seen him meet and defend smaller players on half court with gusto exerting as much lateral movement his feet allow. I think he relishes to be a great defender like Bowen, Kawhi, not exclusively a 3 and D per se, but he already got that 3 going.

I think it’s inevitable that they slide him to 3. Watching him guard Galo says it all. Pop finally saved him by substituting KBD in. Keldon is overpowered as a PF, and the defense suffers especially with Poeltl overhelping and leaving his guy for a dunk. Rebounding, Spurs got killed last night. I think it’s critical to address that PF position this off-season either by draft or trade, slide Keldon to SF where he’s hitting 3’s better than McD, and put a good size PF at 4.

[NickiRasgo]

Funny thing is Zach played slightly better than John statistically like literally by 1-2 per each category. :lol

[BackHome]

You know I’ve been thinking and I may be off but I think the spurs may have improved the team not only in the long term but the short term too at the trade deadline lol the fact that Eubanks is gone and won’t be seeing any time on the floor is a big positive for the team this season and DWhite was probably my favorite player but even he himself had several stinker games this year

Tank 2023 OH YEAH

[XDT76]

By size we play Keldon out of position at PF. While many say there is no difference between SF and SG in today's NBA many SGs tend to be slightly smaller in size and frame. I would like to see Keldon given a shot at SG forcing the smaller of SF/SG to defend him. He could post up, drive or hit the three.He would be a nightmare to guard. Just like Murray is redefining the PG role with his rebounding, so could Keldon do something similar at the SG with posting up.

The problem is we are undersize at 2-4 thus no on will send their 2 to guard KJ. Also as a 2 KJ is too slow to defend. We will need upgrade for our forwards for your wish to come true successfully.

[talkspurs]

Moses Brown released by the Mavs. It might be an interesting pickup as we churn the end of the roster.

He would be somoene I would try and get even if it just to put him in Austin. I could see boston going for him.

[Sugus]

Where the fuck is my boy Sugus

I'm fresh off a two weeks' time beach vacation, just now hopping back into my PC. Followed the trade deadline lightly since I didn't have wifi where I was staying lol.

I'm coming back to SpursTalk like....

https://c.tenor.com/RVvOkiUabtkAAAAC/pizza-delivery-community.gif

[Dejounte]

I'm fresh off a two weeks' time beach vacation, just now hopping back into my PC. Followed the trade deadline lightly since I didn't have wifi where I was staying lol.

I'm coming back to SpursTalk like....

https://c.tenor.com/RVvOkiUabtkAAAAC/pizza-delivery-community.gif

:lmao :lmao looking forward to all your thoughts

[Sugus]

:lmao :lmao looking forward to all your thoughts

I actually forgot to say it - I'm really looking forward to your thoughts! I'm sure you were following the deadline (and the team for the past couple weeks) closely, so what do you think of it all? Obviously the White trade was a "blockbuster" and bound to change how the team goes, but what about the rest of the moves? Is the outlook for this off-season bleaker or brighter than it was 2 weeks ago? How has Primo been playing, and will he capitalize on a bigger opportunity now that the starting SG spot is seemingly up for grabs? Oh, and how's Zach Collins?! Is he looking like a shell of himself, or a future contributor? And a personal favorite - how has Jakob been playing?

I'm very curious, and at the same time, not really feeling like binging 10 or so Spurs games and sifting through things... I'll refrain from giving much comment until I get a good look at the state of the team the next few games.

[Dejounte]

I actually forgot to say it - I'm really looking forward to your thoughts! I'm sure you were following the deadline (and the team for the past couple weeks) closely, so what do you think of it all? Obviously the White trade was a "blockbuster" and bound to change how the team goes, but what about the rest of the moves? Is the outlook for this off-season bleaker or brighter than it was 2 weeks ago? How has Primo been playing, and will he capitalize on a bigger opportunity now that the starting SG spot is seemingly up for grabs? Oh, and how's Zach Collins?! Is he looking like a shell of himself, or a future contributor? And a personal favorite - how has Jakob been playing?

I'm very curious, and at the same time, not really feeling like binging 10 or so Spurs games and sifting through things... I'll refrain from giving much comment until I get a good look at the state of the team the next few games.

May be brief since I’m on my phone

outlook: trading for picks is the front office putting more faith in their scouting than ever before. Regardless of if their plan is to move up or not, i believe they are fully prepared for plan B to draft and keep all their selections on the roster which tells me they have some idea of players in this draft having a higher ceiling than what White had. I like that the Spurs are confident in the unknown and are willing to take those risks. I’m excited for our potential picks, whether they draft #5 or #10, because of what DJ has become.

i think Vassell will keep the starting spot for awhile. Primo looks like he doesn’t know how his spots yet and at times is playing too unselfish. The great thing is when he’s making mistakes, he’s not given the “Lonnie leash”. Pop keeps him in the game for long stretches.

ZCollins looks like a solid player. Gives the center position a fresh look. His hand eye coordination and reflexes are top notch for a center. Centers are usually react slow to things, but Zach is a quick thinker on the court.

Jakob has regressed, man. He was a lock down defender in the paint at the beginning of the season, but now not so much. Dont get me wrong, he’s still good. Just not exceptional. I’m not opposed to the idea that it’s just a funk.

[tbdog]

I have been asking for this backcourt to be broken up for a while now. I felt like it never worked. And i understood the arguments for those who wanted to give it a try because Murray did his acl, then white had injuries, then when they finally were available, pop wouldn't play them together due to spacing having ddr, then white had an injury plagued year, then once ddr wss traded, everyone here salivated over the backcourt pairing.

To me, it has been 3 years of it being tested part time and it hasn't worked. I wanted one of them traded, and since Murray became the clear star, White was out.

The pairing didn't work, partly because they both not good shooters. Yes Murray is getting better but it's mainly off a balanced shot off the catch. He doesn't create a 3 for himself which is a powerful move in today's nba.

But my main issue is this idea you can't have 2 pgs controlling the game at the same time. It becomes disjointed. And white and Murray play at different speeds, which means the team plays at different speeds depending who's calling the shots on that possession. I strongly believe it can't be done, like Francis and Malbury.

Now I wanted a combo forward. Like many here, I'm not a fan of Johnson playing full time pf. But pair him with a combo forward that's a bit more reliable on the boards would be fine. Another option is to get an elite center, someone who will gobble the boards. Poeltl isn't that on defensive rebounds.

Obviously those are hard to find. Trading for another guard was a slight let down. At least Josh Richardson and Longford are swing guards. The real prize is that 1st rounder and swap. It just gives spurs flexibility moving up to get a player they want or take a punt on a high upside player. They can still address my other issue with the team.

[CGD]

Movement on Dragic buy out

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1492665032030789635?s=21

[mo7888]

Goran has been bought out (shams)...we now have an open roster spot

[KingKev]

Goran has been bought out (shams)...we now have an open roster spot

I wonder how much he had to take off the table. Fred Van Fleet had a funny comment about this clown earlier this week lol. Hope he breaks his ankle the minute he signs with a contender.

[Atl Spur]

I wonder how much he had to take off the table. Fred Van Fleet had a funny comment about this clown earlier this week lol. Hope he breaks his ankle the minute he signs with a contender.

Fred is a clown too! I haven’t forgot that f pop comment when Kawhi was there.

[JeffDuncan]

I wonder how much he had to take off the table. Fred Van Fleet had a funny comment about this clown earlier this week lol. Hope he breaks his ankle the minute he signs with a contender.


There’s some history to that. Last summer, after Dragic was traded from Miami to Toronto, he did a local interview in Slovenia, which is where he’s from. In the interview, Dragic said he was “hoping for something better.” The Raps were 27-45 last year and they looked like trash. (Much better this year.)

So the problem was, he was too honest, in a public statement. He basically observed that the Raps suked (at that time, true enough.) Word of what he’d said got back to the Raps, of course, as always happens. He did apologize, but as he joined the Raps it was not all cupcakes and smiley faces.

The lesson being, when you’re traded to a new team, never ever make a public statement that they suk. Lol. It irritates people.

[KingKev]

There’s some history to that. Last summer, after Dragic was traded from Miami to Toronto, he did a local interview in Slovenia, which is where he’s from. In the interview, Dragic said he was “hoping for something better.” The Raps were 27-45 last year and they looked like trash. (Much better this year.)

So the problem was, he was too honest, in a public statement. He basically observed that the Raps suked (at that time, true enough.) Word of what he’d said got back to the Raps, of course, as always happens. He did apologize, but as he joined the Raps it was not all cupcakes and smiley faces.

The lesson being, when you’re traded to a new team, never ever make a public statement that they suk. Lol. It irritates people.

Yeah well aware as I’m from TO. Not a Raps fan but guys like that rub me the wrong way. Atleast Thad wanted to play.

Brian Wright did a great job at the deadline and our pals over in TO were a little more accommodating this time around. Hard to cheer for a guy like Dragic at this point unless he took material money off the table. I’ll enjoy watching him join a contender and hopefully get bounced out of playoffs early.

[John B]

He was Spurs SRP in 2008 with George Hill. I wonder had they kept him. What was the story?

Him and Barbosa I remember Spurs’ picks that went to Suns and had a relatively great career, easily could’ve help the Spurs. Again showing great international scouts. Why Spurs didn’t keep them, I don’t know. And don’t get me started with Scola. Those 3 could’ve played together too.

[Seventyniner]

He was Spurs SRP in 2008 with George Hill. I wonder had they kept him. What was the story?

Him and Barbosa I remember Spurs’ picks that went to Suns and had a relatively great career, easily could’ve help the Spurs. Again showing great international scouts. Why Spurs didn’t keep them, I don’t know. And don’t get me started with Scola. Those 3 could’ve played together too.

iirc the Suns told the Spurs to take both Dragic and Barbosa due to pick trades, meaning the Spurs FO shouldn't get any credit for those picks. But I could be wrong.

[ceperez]

Goran has been bought out (shams)...we now have an open roster spot

Drew Eubanks coming back!!

[Mr. Body]

Drew Eubanks coming back!!

Can't.

[exstatic]

Can't.

Neither can Dragic return to Miami, and for the same reason.

[CGD]

Can't.

Mercifully

[talkspurs]

So I dont want him but I am thinking the pick trade would be worth it for a year.

If the lakers continue to be bad a westbrook gets even worse. If the lakers would give us 2027 and 2029 frp with westbrook for Doug would yall do it? I dont see any team wanting them and lakers would be getting a large cap and tax relief. hopefully by then they wont be good. I would want either no or very low protections (aka first 2). more then that I say no and walk away.

[RC_Drunkford]

So I dont want him but I am thinking the pick trade would be worth it for a year.

If the lakers continue to be bad a westbrook gets even worse. If the lakers would give us 2027 and 2029 frp with westbrook for Doug would yall do it? I dont see any team wanting them and lakers would be getting a large cap and tax relief. hopefully by then they wont be good. I would want either no or very low protections (aka first 2). more then that I say no and walk away.

no. This is the greatest comedy show of the year and I want it to continue for season 2. Westbrick is already my favorite Laker of alltime for destroying the Lakers and LeBron's legacy all at once. I wish he had a longer contract

[Chinook]

Neither can Dragic return to Miami, and for the same reason.

Nah, Dragic CAN go back to Miami thanks to the Bogut ruling a few years ago. The NBA made it clear the restriction only applies to the most recent trading team. I don't think it should, but they set the precedent and probably won't change their minds.

Eubanks can't come back next summer either, which is odd but probably for the best.

[talkspurs]

Nah, Dragic CAN go back to Miami thanks to the Bogut ruling a few years ago. The NBA made it clear the restriction only applies to the most recent trading team. I don't think it should, but they set the precedent and probably won't change their minds.

Eubanks can't come back next summer either, which is odd but probably for the best.

Not saying I want him back but why cant he come back next year? From everything I ready it is only for the league year so he could come back next summer.

[Dex]

no. This is the greatest comedy show of the year and I want it to continue for season 2. Westbrick is already my favorite Laker of alltime for destroying the Lakers and LeBron's legacy all at once. I wish he had a longer contract

Agree 100%

Not only is Westbrook being exposed for the player that he is (stat-padder), but it was LeBron and Davis who wanted to bring him in and now they are stuck with them.

There is already talk of Vogel being fired because he has been benching him in 4th quarters. Only in LA would they fire a coach for making the right obvious decision to help your team win.

Let that dumpster fire burn...I don't see Russ turning down his $47 MILLION DOLLAR paycheck next year

[scott]

I'm starting to feel like the lottery will make a huge impact on how quickly this rebuild goes (duh). We are a fairly competitive bad team, as the metrics show, not an absolutely roll over. So, we aren't THAT far off. With that said, we aren't necessarily better in the short run with a bunch of mid-FRPs.

Scenario 1: We jump into the Top 4 and have an impact rookie. We use TOR and BOS picks to add another instant contributor, whether it be by moving up, or using to trade for an impactful vet, or in a S&T for someone who can be impactful (Levine?)

Scenario 2: We have picks #8, 20, 25. We pick them all, and the Austin Spurs win the G-league with them spending significant time there. Or we'll trade those picks for picks down the road. We rent our cap space for more future picks, and we are basically just OKC or HOU, in what seems like forever rebuilding limbo... our problem will be we are too good to finish Top 4 every year, so we'll never make any real progress towards the rebuild.

Is there are Scenario 3 where we still pick in the 7-10 range, but get an impact player and add other impact players through trades or free agency and improve right away?

I know a lot of people would say it is foolish or impatient to expect a one year turnaround, but I have a hard time seeing an extended rebuild really working. With DJM and some of these other young guys, I don't see us sucking enough to fully commit to the tank, and we'll be forever stuck drafting these solid guys who aren't superstars. And no stars = no progress.

[Chinook]

Not saying I want him back but why cant he come back next year? From everything I ready it is only for the league year so he could come back next summer.

The league year is for trades. Like the Spurs can reacquire White in a trade starting in July.


When a team trades a player who is subsequently waived by the receiving team, it cannot claim the player off waivers or re-sign the player until the one-year anniversary of the trade, or until the July 1 following the end of his contract5, whichever is earlier6.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q64

Eubanks' contract ran through the end of next season, so he has to wait the calendar year.

In case you're wondering what the footnotes are, 5 is saying that option years don't count (though non-guaranteed years aren't in the exception), and 6 is the Bogut rule like I mentioned.

[scott]

I would say no to helping LA with Westbrook for two reasons:

1. We should never help the Lakers, ever
2. Westbrook is one of a top 2 players, along with Harden, who should absolutely never ever ever ever don a Spurs uniform. I'd welcome Nephew back with open arms before either of those two

[baseline bum]

I would say no to helping LA with Westbrook for two reasons:

1. We should never help the Lakers, ever
2. Westbrook is one of a top 2 players, along with Harden, who should absolutely never ever ever ever don a Spurs uniform. I'd welcome Nephew back with open arms before either of those two

Would have to add Karl Malone to the top of your list. Was going to become Cavs fan for a couple of years if they would have signed that kid fucker in 04.

[baseline bum]

no. This is the greatest comedy show of the year and I want it to continue for season 2. Westbrick is already my favorite Laker of alltime for destroying the Lakers and LeBron's legacy all at once. I wish he had a longer contract

LOL this is my favorite Lakers team since 2013. No way I want them broken up.

[talkspurs]

The league year is for trades. Like the Spurs can reacquire White in a trade starting in July.



http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q64

Eubanks' contract ran through the end of next season, so he has to wait the calendar year.

In case you're wondering what the footnotes are, 5 is saying that option years don't count (though non-guaranteed years aren't in the exception), and 6 is the Bogut rule like I mentioned.

Thanks for the clarification but wouldnt his third year be a team option since it is not guarenteed yet and the spurs/toranto could have opted out up till following the last day of the 2022/23 moratorium period. I dont think he had any money guarenteed to him. I did not see the part your talking about non guarenteed years not counting.

https://hoopshype.com/player/drew-eubanks/salary/

[Chinook]

Thanks for the clarification but wouldnt his third year be a team option since it is not guarenteed yet and the spurs/toranto could have opted out up till following the last day of the 2022/23 moratorium period. I dont think he had any money guarenteed to him. I did not see the part your talking about non guarenteed years not counting.

https://hoopshype.com/player/drew-eubanks/salary/

A team option is not the same thing as a non-guaranteed year. A team option is basically the same thing as a player option, but with the team making the decision rather than the player. It has all the same limitations, such as it needing to be decided prior to the end of the league year and benefits, such as conserving the Bird clock and potential RFA status. Careless journalists will sometimes list non-guaranteed years as team options, but that's not correct.

The CBA FAQ does not say only guaranteed years count; therefore, we have no reason to assume the re-signing prohibition doesn't extend to non-guaranteed. As a bit of explanation on how options work in general: When a player has a team or player option, the non-option years are considered the base contract with the option year being added on. So a first-rounder has a two-year deal with two team options, while James Harden is on an expiring contract with an option to extend the contract for an additional year. TOs and POs have to be picked up. The default is the contract ending. So in the cases where a guy with a TO is traded and waived, the option is considered to be not picked up, and thus the contract ends before that last year. ETOs are different in that they're an option to END the contract a year early. The default for those is the contract continuing. So when a player is waived before an ETO year, the ETO is considered picked up.

So basically Eubanks signed a three-year deal with no options. His contract's end date was in 2023. He was waived early, but he had no option year that wasn't picked up. Therefore, his prohibition lasts a whole year and not until the end of this season.

[John B]

Would have to add Karl Malone to the top of your list. Was going to become Cavs fan for a couple of years if they would have signed that kid fucker in 04.

Fisher with his .04 shot and running to the tunnels still gives me cold sweats at night. Include him on that list including Zaza’s left foot

[MannyIsGod]

I'm starting to feel like the lottery will make a huge impact on how quickly this rebuild goes (duh). We are a fairly competitive bad team, as the metrics show, not an absolutely roll over. So, we aren't THAT far off. With that said, we aren't necessarily better in the short run with a bunch of mid-FRPs.

Scenario 1: We jump into the Top 4 and have an impact rookie. We use TOR and BOS picks to add another instant contributor, whether it be by moving up, or using to trade for an impactful vet, or in a S&T for someone who can be impactful (Levine?)

Scenario 2: We have picks #8, 20, 25. We pick them all, and the Austin Spurs win the G-league with them spending significant time there. Or we'll trade those picks for picks down the road. We rent our cap space for more future picks, and we are basically just OKC or HOU, in what seems like forever rebuilding limbo... our problem will be we are too good to finish Top 4 every year, so we'll never make any real progress towards the rebuild.

Is there are Scenario 3 where we still pick in the 7-10 range, but get an impact player and add other impact players through trades or free agency and improve right away?

I know a lot of people would say it is foolish or impatient to expect a one year turnaround, but I have a hard time seeing an extended rebuild really working. With DJM and some of these other young guys, I don't see us sucking enough to fully commit to the tank, and we'll be forever stuck drafting these solid guys who aren't superstars. And no stars = no progress.

I think the Spurs know they won't get a top 4 pick without some ping pong luck, which is why they acquired the other 2 FRP. Hopefully this allows them to trade up, but that depends on another team being willing to do that. We'll see.

[Rocalcio]

Glad we didn't make a move for Collins, he's always injured now.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

LOL this is my favorite Lakers team since 2013. No way I want them broken up.

It's fantastic.

Watching LeBron sulk off into the tunnel without congratulating the other team after every mounting loss never gets old.

[baseline bum]

It's fantastic.

Watching LeBron sulk off into the tunnel without congratulating the other team after every mounting loss never gets old.

It's funny because usually you think you got LeBron at least you're a playoff team. Even the Cavs couldn't fuck that up other than LeBron's rookie year. But now it's looking like the Lakers will have missed the playoffs twice with LeBron. How the fuck do have LeBron and not make the playoffs? :lmao

[Mr. Body]

The Lakers could miss the playoffs in probably the worst year the Western Conference has had in living memory. The play-in teams are awful.

Currently, the Spurs are 2 wins outside the play-in and they're 17 games under .500.

They are 3 wins under Los Angeles, 2 wins under New Orleans.

I don't think they'll catch NOP, who don't own their pick and are probably pushing for the POs. Lakers are another story. They look completely disinterested in continuing this lovely pain they're experiencing. I can see James forcing a trade this summer.

[baseline bum]

The Lakers could miss the playoffs in probably the worst year the Western Conference has had in living memory. The play-in teams are awful.

Currently, the Spurs are 2 wins outside the play-in and they're 17 games under .500.

They are 3 wins under Los Angeles, 2 wins under New Orleans.

I don't think they'll catch NOP, who don't own their pick and are probably pushing for the POs. Lakers are another story. They look completely disinterested in continuing this lovely pain they're experiencing. I can see James forcing a trade this summer.

Damn Phoenix was actually on a 68 win pace until Paul broke his thumb. Probably still win 61-62 games. Rest of the conference is pretty trash though.

[John B]

It's fantastic.

Watching LeBron sulk off into the tunnel without congratulating the other team after every mounting loss never gets old.

LeBron has always been a bitter loser not congratulating the other team after a loss

[T Park]

The lakers are gonna miss the playoffs and the damn Grizzlies are gonna benefit.


I dont think a guy the Spurs can get say they finish at 7 or 6, wont be an impact guy. Keegan Murray looks like he has the potential to be an impact guy. Surround him with Poeltl Murray and Johnson and he can really blossom. He commands a lot of attention in the Iowa offense, rightfully so, yet still gets his shots off easily, and his perimeter defense is really damn good.

However, i dont think say the 6 and the two other picks are enough to get into the top 4 to get a Banchero. I’m most likely wrong, just dont think Houston, Detroit, Orlando are willing to trade down if they are in that position. Again, could be wrong.

[TD 21]

The lakers are gonna miss the playoffs and the damn Grizzlies are gonna benefit.


I dont think a guy the Spurs can get say they finish at 7 or 6, wont be an impact guy. Keegan Murray looks like he has the potential to be an impact guy. Surround him with Poeltl Murray and Johnson and he can really blossom. He commands a lot of attention in the Iowa offense, rightfully so, yet still gets his shots off easily, and his perimeter defense is really damn good.

However, i dont think say the 6 and the two other picks are enough to get into the top 4 to get a Banchero. I’m most likely wrong, just dont think Houston, Detroit, Orlando are willing to trade down if they are in that position. Again, could be wrong.

Agree that Banchero should still be the target. He's probably more floor (late prime Griffin/Randle) than ceiling raiser, but a play making four, with go-to scoring potential, who's bi-racial and played at Duke, is too much to at least not pursue to the fullest.

Between the three 1sts, plus potentially Poeltl and Richardson, as well as including a third team, for the first time in forever they should have enough assets to at least make a team think about it.

[NickiRasgo]

My pick is Jaden Ivey too but sometimes I'm quite unsure with his translation/transition to NBA. He'll probably be picked by Thunder but I won't be surprised if they'll take Shaedon Sharpe if he declared. I kinda want the Spurs to gamble on Shaedon Sharpe if he declared and he's available.

[mo7888]

Wasn't sure where to put this but since the general topic of the thread is trades I'm gonna put it here-

With the rumors of LA being willing to trade AD out there in an espn article, what do you think his value is on the market right now? I'm not necessarily thinking from the perspective of what we'd offer but just the overall market out there for him which could include us for discussion purposes.

[Seventyniner]

The Spurs have the potential cap space and picks to be big-time trade facilitators.

[JPB]

Wasn't sure where to put this but since the general topic of the thread is trades I'm gonna put it here-

With the rumors of LA being willing to trade AD out there in an espn article, what do you think his value is on the market right now? I'm not necessarily thinking from the perspective of what we'd offer but just the overall market out there for him which could include us for discussion purposes.

just for perspective, here's what LA gave to NO for Anthony "When I'm on the floor, I'm a motherfucker" Davis...:

- Brandon Ingram
- Lonzo Ball
- Josh Hart
- three first-round picks
- and two pick swaps

Yikes, good luck getting that in return.

[JeffDuncan]

Wasn't sure where to put this but since the general topic of the thread is trades I'm gonna put it here-

With the rumors of LA being willing to trade AD out there in an espn article, what do you think his value is on the market right now? I'm not necessarily thinking from the perspective of what we'd offer but just the overall market out there for him which could include us for discussion purposes.


Anthony Davis’ current contract is a horrid thing which escalates to a player option for $43M in 2024-25. He probably still has the ability to be a top 20 player in the NBA, when he’s able to play. Yeah, when he’s able. But that amount? Um. He got that contract because of Lebron’s advocacy.

Without Lebron as his agent, his contract value would probably drop back to what it was in New Orleans, about $25M. That’s if a team wants to take a chance on him. I couldn’t see it as rational for a team to devote more than $25M of salary space to him, because he needs good players of the right kind around him - and a good backup!

The Spurs, themselves, should look elsewhere.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

just for perspective, here's what LA gave to NO for Anthony "When I'm on the floor, I'm a motherfucker" Davis...:

- Brandon Ingram
- Lonzo Ball
- Josh Hart
- three first-round picks
- and two pick swaps

Yikes, good luck getting that in return.

You're not wrong, it's a lot but it was still worth it because they rang.

Meanwhile this overpay will likely not result in a title for NO. Not that AD staying there would have, mind.

[mo7888]

Anthony Davis’ current contract is a horrid thing which escalates to a player option for $43M in 2024-25. He probably still has the ability to be a top 20 player in the NBA, when he’s able to play. Yeah, when he’s able. But that amount? Um. He got that contract because of Lebron’s advocacy.

Without Lebron as his agent, his contract value would probably drop back to what it was in New Orleans, about $25M. That’s if a team wants to take a chance on him. I couldn’t see it as rational for a team to devote more than $25M of salary space to him, because he needs good players of the right kind around him - and a good backup!

The Spurs, themselves, should look elsewhere.

I think you'll see teams line up to acquire him if he indeed goes on the market. I don't think his contract will be a deterrent at all for most. I believe most of the interest will come from teams that see themselves as competing for the championship. I doubt many rebuilding team will be interested unless it's edging in to facilitate it for assets.

If Lillard tries to force his way out of Portland I could see them sending him to LA with AD going to a 3rd team and sending Portland young players/ picks.

I'm not sure where SA sees themselves right now... so it's hard for me to say if we'd be interested or not.

[BacktoBasics]

Anthony Davis is fools gold. The guy has no competitive drive. He’s a pussy who can fill a stat sheet when there’s no pressure to win actual games.

[NickiRasgo]

Wasn't sure where to put this but since the general topic of the thread is trades I'm gonna put it here-

With the rumors of LA being willing to trade AD out there in an espn article, what do you think his value is on the market right now? I'm not necessarily thinking from the perspective of what we'd offer but just the overall market out there for him which could include us for discussion purposes.

Prolly only few teams will be interested in getting him like - Bulls, Knicks, Mavs but Lakers will prolly ask more so the deal will not eventually push-thru then there's LeBron who was something to say.
But then, his contract ($37M, $40M, #43M - player option) not friendly either and he only played like only 50% (2020-2021 - 36 out of 72 / 2021-2022 - 40 out of 82) in each season for the last 2 season.

[Seventyniner]

Plenty of teams would have lined up to give AD a max contract, and for the right price plenty of teams would be willing to trade for him. He's an All-NBA level talent locked up for 4 more years. Say what you will about his attitude, but if the Lakers decide to trade him they will have a list of suitors.

[JPB]

You're not wrong, it's a lot but it was still worth it because they rang.

Meanwhile this overpay will likely not result in a title for NO. Not that AD staying there would have, mind.

You're right about that although one could argue about long term future or even short term since they're not even in the PO this year (they had injuries but their roster is prett weak past their big 3).

They basically jeopardized their future for one ring, some would say it was worth it, but we know how quick people forget in sports, as the shit they're getting now attests... Lebron is getting old and a no show on defense, Westbrook is an albatros and Davis doesn't seem like an alpha, with trade rumours.

And then all those picks and pick swaps, with no real young stud to salivate about. People will say "it's the Lake Show, they'll aways sign top tier FAs"... Maybe but only if these guys feel like they have a shot at ringing otherwise it can transform in a boomerang in LA"...

[wildbill2u]

Neither can Dragic return to Miami, and for the same reason.

Perhaps I'm thinking too much CIA Pop, but could the recent highlight video that greeted Ewbanks on his recent return to Spurs arena be a subtle message that we might welcome him back as a free agent next year as a PF candidate? He's actually playing pretty well with his new team on a short term contract.

[Seventyniner]

And then all those picks and pick swaps, with no real young stud to salivate about. People will say "it's the Lake Show, they'll aways sign top tier FAs"... Maybe but only if these guys feel like they have a shot at ringing otherwise it can transform in a boomerang in LA"...

The Lakers fucked their draft situation for the next several years in the AD trade, and fucked their cap situation with Westbrook. Hard to sign marquee FAs with only the MLE, especially the taxpayer MLE, and hard to clear your cap with no draft assets to attach.

[exstatic]

Perhaps I'm thinking too much CIA Pop, but could the recent highlight video that greeted Ewbanks on his recent return to Spurs arena be a subtle message that we might welcome him back as a free agent next year as a PF candidate? He's actually playing pretty well with his new team on a short term contract.

Same thing. We can’t sign him for a year. I wouldn’t want to. He’s putting up decent counting stats on a team that cares neither about winning or defense.

[John B]

Perhaps I'm thinking too much CIA Pop, but could the recent highlight video that greeted Ewbanks on his recent return to Spurs arena be a subtle message that we might welcome him back as a free agent next year as a PF candidate? He's actually playing pretty well with his new team on a short term contract.

Nah moving on.. We have 4 potential rookies coming. I mean 1-out-of-4 of getting a keeper, plus a huge salary cap, nice movable assets for potential trade, I’d be totally surprised if Wright couldn’t make this right.

[John B]

Plenty of teams would have lined up to give AD a max contract, and for the right price plenty of teams would be willing to trade for him. He's an All-NBA level talent locked up for 4 more years. Say what you will about his attitude, but if the Lakers decide to trade him they will have a list of suitors.

Nah the guy gets injured cutting a hang nail.

[CGD]

Prolly only few teams will be interested in getting him like - Bulls, Knicks, Mavs but Lakers will prolly ask more so the deal will not eventually push-thru then there's LeBron who was something to say.
But then, his contract ($37M, $40M, #43M - player option) not friendly either and he only played like only 50% (2020-2021 - 36 out of 72 / 2021-2022 - 40 out of 82) in each season for the last 2 season.

I think LeBron has reached the age/point in his career where a team like the Lakers can blow him off on his demands, especially after this Westbrick fiasco.

[baseline bum]

Plenty of teams would have lined up to give AD a max contract, and for the right price plenty of teams would be willing to trade for him. He's an All-NBA level talent locked up for 4 more years. Say what you will about his attitude, but if the Lakers decide to trade him they will have a list of suitors.

:lol locked up for four years meaning anything in today's NBA

[spurraider21]

:lol locked up for four years meaning anything in today's NBA
i mean... it does. he's under contract. even if he demands a trade, you get something back for him. its not meaningless at all

[baseline bum]

i mean... it does. he's under contract. even if he demands a trade, you get something back for him. its not meaningless at all

Oh wow a couple of draft picks and players the team he goes to doesn't want anymore when he forces his way there.

[spurraider21]

Oh wow a couple of draft picks and players the team he goes to doesn't want anymore when he forces his way there.
Sometimes a team gives up players they do want for an opportunity to upgrade. Spurs gave up splitter to make space for LMA

[NickiRasgo]

I think LeBron has reached the age/point in his career where a team like the Lakers can blow him off on his demands, especially after this Westbrick fiasco.

Probably and the Lakers might even consider trading him but they're stuck anyways - they don't have much assets in the near future until 2026 (assuming the Pelicans got all the Lakers' picks up to 2025) I believe and it's not like they're currently the team that a big named free agent that wanted to play for with LeBron's age, AD's durability, team depth and their assets.

But who knows, there might be a stupid team to trade for Westbrook this coming offseason by giving too much assets.

[mo7888]

But who knows, there might be a stupid team to trade for Westbrook this coming offseason by giving too much assets.

Could be but I expect LA to waive and stretch him...thereby extending his cap hit for years to come..

[Mr. Body]

I may be crazy, but the Lakers don't have to be completely shitty if they pick up some good young players like that Austin Reaves kid. You need bargains, cast-offs, hungry young players who can mesh around the old assholes.

The problem is it takes a shrewd GM. Sean Marks did this when he took over a Brooklyn Nets franchise that had traded years of draft picks away for those old Celtic dudes. He picked up players who needed second chances like Spencer Dinwhiddie, got bargains like D'Angelo Russell, good draft picks like Caris Lavert. He's still doing it like Kessler Edwards in the 2nd round.

It's not impossible. But the team is controlled by Klutch and they have no idea how to do this.

[mo7888]

I may be crazy, but the Lakers don't have to be completely shitty if they pick up some good young players like that Austin Reaves kid. You need bargains, cast-offs, hungry young players who can mesh around the old assholes.

The problem is it takes a shrewd GM. Sean Marks did this when he took over a Brooklyn Nets franchise that had traded years of draft picks away for those old Celtic dudes. He picked up players who needed second chances like Spencer Dinwhiddie, got bargains like D'Angelo Russell, good draft picks like Caris Lavert. He's still doing it like Kessler Edwards in the 2nd round.

It's not impossible. But the team is controlled by Klutch and they have no idea how to do this.

Yup...but the main issue I see is Lebron still wants vets on the cheap around him....he had success with that when he was a young player and he's not self aware enough to realize that at his age, in this era, that he's the vet that needs to help the young athletic guys..

[NickiRasgo]

Could be but I expect LA to waive and stretch him...thereby extending his cap hit for years to come..

Hopefully no team will be stupid enough to make a trade for Westbrook so they'll be stuck with him for another year.


I may be crazy, but the Lakers don't have to be completely shitty if they pick up some good young players like that Austin Reaves kid. You need bargains, cast-offs, hungry young players who can mesh around the old assholes.

The problem is it takes a shrewd GM. Sean Marks did this when he took over a Brooklyn Nets franchise that had traded years of draft picks away for those old Celtic dudes. He picked up players who needed second chances like Spencer Dinwhiddie, got bargains like D'Angelo Russell, good draft picks like Caris Lavert. He's still doing it like Kessler Edwards in the 2nd round.

It's not impossible. But the team is controlled by Klutch and they have no idea how to do this.

The main problem with the Lakers is the expectation and pressure from franchise and fanbase - if you can't deliver when they're expecting you to, they'll attack you mentally. Look what happened to Westbrook this season. Players that will play there should be mentally strong and esp. with LeBron's around, hard to make a mistake. See how many (good young) players blossomed more after getting out from the Lakers.

[baseline bum]

Could be but I expect LA to waive and stretch him...thereby extending his cap hit for years to come..

That shit is still allowed in the CBA? Always thought that was only a one time per team provision from the CBA agreed to in the mid teens, but haven't kept on the CBA terms since.

[mo7888]

That shit is still allowed in the CBA? Always thought that was only a one time per team provision from the CBA agreed to in the mid teens, but haven't kept on the CBA terms since.

It's still there.. Lakers are openly talking about doing it...

[talkspurs]

I still want the spurs to trade for westbrook. send out mcdermet. We would get back 2 1st rd picks un protected in 27 and 29. If they would not do both then I would probably walk. They were not willing to do one during the season but it has gotten worse for him there so tradeing him saves them lots of money. the Spurs could just waive him which would move their cap space to next year since it basically would have all be spent on him.

[Chinook]

That shit is still allowed in the CBA? Always thought that was only a one time per team provision from the CBA agreed to in the mid teens, but haven't kept on the CBA terms since.

Confusing it with amnesty. Stretching is standard now. Stretching the actual payments is mandatory, but a team releasing a player before 09/01 can choose to stretch the cap hit over twice the remaining years plus 1.

[baseline bum]

Confusing it with amnesty. Stretching is standard now. Stretching the actual payments is mandatory, but a team releasing a player before 09/01 can choose to stretch the cap hit over twice the remaining years plus 1.

Yeah guess I was confusing the two. The amnesty provision was where the stretch first came from though wasn't it?

[Chinook]

Yeah guess I was confusing the two. The amnesty provision was where the stretch first came from though wasn't it?

The amnesty as far as I know didn't make any distinction about how the money was paid off, and it completely left the books. Like if the Lakers had the amnesty clause available, they'd be able to remove all of Russ' salary forever. Teams were also allowed to claim players like on NFL waivers but pay only part of the salary. It wasn't a horrible system, honestly. I think it could work if you changed it to only include players still with their signing club and reduced the amount of savings a team could get for releasing a player. Then the Lakers would be able to amnesty THT but not Westbrook, and teams like OKC couldn't abuse the system by taking on partial salaries for by being a rest stop for amnesty players.

The stretch provision has been in the CBA as long as the amnesty clause. It was just optional before (teams and players could agree to spread the money out over multiple years are part of a release), whereas as I mentioned, it's mandatory now for the actual payments and formalized into a more rigid structure for the cap hits.

[Seventyniner]

I thought the amnesty only gave luxury tax relief, not salary cap relief, and that each team could only use it once and only on a player already under contract with them. I think that was in 2012, but if there was a more recent version I must be forgetting it.

[Chinook]

I thought the amnesty only gave luxury tax relief, not salary cap relief, and that each team could only use it once and only on a player already under contract with them. I think that was in 2012, but if there was a more recent version I must be forgetting it.

According to Wikipedia, that was the case for the original amnesty, but not the second one that happened in 2011 -- the one that had the claiming process. The second one removed from both. The CBA FAQ only includes a tiny blurb about it to say it doesn't exist anymore, but it does state both clauses took the salary off the cap as well.

[Seventyniner]

According to Wikipedia, that was the case for the original amnesty, but not the second one that happened in 2011 -- the one that had the claiming process. The second one removed from both. The CBA FAQ only includes a tiny blurb about it to say it doesn't exist anymore, but it does state both clauses took the salary off the cap as well.

Thanks. Wasn't the first amnesty in 2006 or so and is how the Spurs got Michael Finley, because Cuban had put the Mavs deep into tax hell and using the amnesty on Finley was the easiest way out?

[T Park]

Thanks. Wasn't the first amnesty in 2006 or so and is how the Spurs got Michael Finley, because Cuban had put the Mavs deep into tax hell and using the amnesty on Finley was the easiest way out?

Yeah they amnesty bought him out summer of 05. Spurs came in quick and hard and got him,

[exstatic]

Yeah they amnesty bought him out summer of 05. Spurs came in quick and hard and got him,

Findog may have been the reason they put in the 2Xyears+1 limiter. He got paid out over TEN YEARS at $5M/yr. To put that in perspective, his final payment from the Mavs came just after our River parade in 2014.

[T Park]

Findog may have been the reason they put in the 2Xyears+1 limiter. He got paid out over TEN YEARS at $5M/yr. To put that in perspective, his final payment from the Mavs came just after our River parade in 2014.

Lol I forgot about the 10 year stretch

[Rocalcio]

just for perspective, here's what LA gave to NO for Anthony "When I'm on the floor, I'm a motherfucker" Davis...:

- Brandon Ingram
- Lonzo Ball
- Josh Hart
- three first-round picks
- and two pick swaps

Yikes, good luck getting that in return.

There is no way they even get half of that. Davis' value is lower than ever.

[KingKev]

Troll alert….

27, 29 Lakers unprotected FRPs, a future pick swap and Russ for McDougal and Zollins?

We have a ton of cap space that will probably go unused. Lakers are dumpster of an organization and will be for years after LBJ so that draft capital could be solid. Never welcome Russ to the team just buy him out.

I’d consider it.

[mo7888]

Troll alert….

27, 29 Lakers unprotected FRPs, a future pick swap and Russ for McDougal and Zollins?

We have a ton of cap space that will probably go unused. Lakers are dumpster of an organization and will be for years after LBJ so that draft capital could be solid. Never welcome Russ to the team just buy him out.

I’d consider it.

As a fall back option if we can't find something more attractive I'd consider an iteration of that deal too

[exstatic]

Troll alert….

27, 29 Lakers unprotected FRPs, a future pick swap and Russ for McDougal and Zollins?

We have a ton of cap space that will probably go unused. Lakers are dumpster of an organization and will be for years after LBJ so that draft capital could be solid. Never welcome Russ to the team just buy him out.

I’d consider it.

LA would probably rather stretch him than give us those kinds of assets. Money really isn't an object, and they could spread the cap hit over 3 years.

[KingKev]

LA would probably rather stretch him than give us those kinds of assets. Money really isn't an object, and they could spread the cap hit over 3 years.

That barely helps them in free agency if at all. Waiving and stretching Russ gives them like 5-10m in cap space max and they don’t own Monk’s bird rights. They need to pay someone to swallow most of Russ’ buyout and THT to have cap space. I’m not advocating for this but it’s the only way they can retool and only a few teams can accommodate something like this.

[talkspurs]

LA would probably rather stretch him than give us those kinds of assets. Money really isn't an object, and they could spread the cap hit over 3 years.

You might be right on they would rather buy him out but stretching it does not really do much. they should be over the cap or right at it with the minimum contracts so they would only have the MLE. this would also hurt their salary cap the two years after when they would have it. If money is no object would be better to not stretch pay the lux tax and then have the money the year after which is the same year lehype leaves and leaves AD all by himself.

[cjw]

LA would probably rather stretch him than give us those kinds of assets. Money really isn't an object, and they could spread the cap hit over 3 years.

The toughest thing about the Russ contact is there’s no logical trade partner who can absorb it in a trade, even though it’s expiring, and the best they can probably hope for is to take on two smaller dud contracts to make those pieces more tradeable. Kind of like Mavs did with Porzingis (Dinwidie and Porzingis).

Seeing them this screwed is a beautiful sight.

[talkspurs]

The toughest thing about the Russ contact is there’s no logical trade partner who can absorb it in a trade, even though it’s expiring, and the best they can probably hope for is to take on two smaller dud contracts to make those pieces more tradeable. Kind of like Mavs did with Porzingis (Dinwidie and Porzingis).

Seeing them this screwed is a beautiful sight.

I could see NY doing a trade. It would be several players going back but they could want him as a PG on a 1 year rental to see how good he is. La might take back some of their trash to get out from russ and fill out their team.

[R. DeMurre]

The toughest thing about the Russ contact is there’s no logical trade partner who can absorb it in a trade, even though it’s expiring, and the best they can probably hope for is to take on two smaller dud contracts to make those pieces more tradeable. Kind of like Mavs did with Porzingis (Dinwidie and Porzingis).

Seeing them this screwed is a beautiful sight.

I've only seen one scenario/rumor that looks plausible, and that's Russ for Buddy Hield + Malcolm Brogdon. Both guys have multiple years left on their contracts, so Indiana could sacrifice one year with Westbrook, and then have a lot of cap space to build around Haliburton & Turner after 2023. If the Lakers add their 2027 frp it's a decent deal for them, and it would obviously be a coup for the Lakers.

[KingKev]

I've only seen one scenario/rumor that looks plausible, and that's Russ for Buddy Hield + Malcolm Brogdon. Both guys have multiple years left on their contracts, so Indiana could sacrifice one year with Westbrook, and then have a lot of cap space to build around Haliburton & Turner after 2023. If the Lakers add their 2027 frp it's a decent deal for them, and it would obviously be a coup for the Lakers.

Brogdon and Hield could easily be moved without taking in Russ. That is a dream trade for Lakers, doubt Indy does that even for a few far out FRPs.

[CGD]

I don’t see many teams lining up to help the Lakers which is delicious in its own way. Lowe was posturing that Knicks might roll the dice, which I can see.

[KingKev]

I don’t see many teams lining up to help the Lakers which is delicious in its own way. Lowe was posturing that Knicks might roll the dice, which I can see.

The Lakers not only want to move Russ but appear hesitant to attach draft picks and still expect a return. I hope they are stuck with him and Monk leaves. Hell I’d pay Monk just to fk them and trade him at a later date.

[mo7888]

The Lakers not only want to move Russ but appear hesitant to attach draft picks and still expect a return. I hope they are stuck with him and Monk leaves. Hell I’d pay Monk just to fk them and trade him at a later date.

I actually think monk would fit nicely next to DJ if we move a couple of other guys.

[Mr. Body]

There are rumors that Jordan wants to get out from under Terry Rozier and Gordon Hayward and would be open to acquiring Westbrook for them.

[mo7888]

There are rumors that Jordan wants to get out from under Terry Rozier and Gordon Hayward and would be open to acquiring Westbrook for them.

If they are committed to Bron and AD then LA should take that if it's on the table

[lmbebo]

There are rumors that Jordan wants to get out from under Terry Rozier and Gordon Hayward and would be open to acquiring Westbrook for them.

If I'm Lakers, I take that trade in a heart beat. Granted its more money, but but those players would be more moveable in the future if they don't work out.

Guess for CLT, rids them of some heavy money....

[Leetonidas]

Yep, if Jordan is dumb enough to want Westbrook, Pelinka should take that deal and run

[exstatic]

Yep, if Jordan is dumb enough to want Westbrook, Pelinka should take that deal and run

I don't think he wants Westbrook so much as he wants out of those two bad deals. Westbrook is an ending contract.

[KingKev]

There are rumors that Jordan wants to get out from under Terry Rozier and Gordon Hayward and would be open to acquiring Westbrook for them.

That should still cost LA two FRPs. Hayward has value.

[Leetonidas]

I don't think he wants Westbrook so much as he wants out of those two bad deals. Westbrook is an ending contract.

I wouldn't want that clown anywhere near my young players if I'm coach Borrego

[Ariel]

I wouldn't want that clown anywhere near my young players if I'm coach Borrego
If that deal goes through I'm sure it's only to shorten the salary cap burden, and they'd buy him out afterwards.

[talkspurs]

like others have said. LA should take that deal and run. If it is just to get out from the contracts I am sure they could find better places to send terry to. Hayward is injured a lot but a bet some teams would still take him and give back a shorter contract and maybe a pick.