2023 NBA Free Agency Thread - June 30 @ 5 pm CDT

[exstatic]

I know - Im saying he didn’t get signed last season either after asking out and still not signed. All after him both playing well and asking out

I think teams weighed years of meh play against 30 good Spurs games, and decided that it was a mirage.

[exstatic]

Keith Smith
@KeithSmithNBA
·
7m
The San Antonio Spurs renounced the free agent rights to Romeo Langford.

Removes a fairly large (~$17M, former late lottery pick) cap hold. Wonder if something's up.

[Ariel]

Removes a fairly large (~$17M, former late lottery pick) cap hold. Wonder if something's up.
Renouncing Langford was a given. It's certainly possible something's up, but I wouldn't necessarily infer that from this bit of information.

[spurraider21]

Removes a fairly large (~$17M, former late lottery pick) cap hold. Wonder if something's up.
It’s a formality tbh. Not necessarily the sign of something imminent

[exstatic]

Renouncing Langford was a given. It's certainly possible something's up, but I wouldn't necessarily infer that from this bit of information.

Oh, sure it was a given, but the Spurs don't do any transactions until they have to, as a rule. Why didn't they renounce him on the first day of FA?

I'm also thinking they will sit at 17 or 18 guaranteed NBA roster contracts until the roster cut down day in order to leave open the possibility of being involved in a trade up until the last minute.

edit: now that we're above the 'floor', Stevens will be cut before his guarantee date, which I believe is 1 August.

[Obstructed_View]

Oh, sure it was a given, but the Spurs don't do any transactions until they have to, as a rule. Why didn't they renounce him on the first day of FA?

I'm also thinking they will sit at 17 or 18 guaranteed NBA roster contracts until the roster cut down day in order to leave open the possibility of being involved in a trade up until the last minute.

edit: now that we're above the 'floor', Stevens will be cut before his guarantee date, which I believe is 1 August.

The Spurs, as far as I know, have never prevented a guy from catching on somewhere else. They wouldn't keep him longer than necessary.

[Bruno]

Oh, sure it was a given, but the Spurs don't do any transactions until they have to, as a rule. Why didn't they renounce him on the first day of FA?

You're right, they're renouncing Langford because they need cap space to make a move. This move is known, it's the Bullock trade that should be made official soon.

[ace3g]

https://twitter.com/BleacherReport/status/1677446272297598976

[ace3g]

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1677652379863269379

[ace3g]

Keith Smith
@KeithSmithNBA
·
17m
The Utah Jazz renounced the free agent rights to Udoka Azubuike, Johnny Juzang and Juan Toscano-Anderson. These are in addition to renouncing the free agents rights to Hassan Whiteside.

[ace3g]

Keith Smith
@KeithSmithNBA
·
18m
The Houston Rockets renounced the free agent rights to DJ Augustin, Willie Cauley-Stein, Michael Frazier, Frank Kaminsy and Boban Marjanovic.

[slick'81]

Keith Smith
@KeithSmithNBA
·
18m
The Houston Rockets renounced the free agent rights to DJ Augustin, Willie Cauley-Stein, Michael Frazier, Frank Kaminsy and Boban Marjanovic.


now theres a list of scrubs minus Boban of course

[ace3g]

Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn
·
2m
Philadelphia 76ers restricted free agent F Paul Reed Jr., has signed a three-year, $23M offer sheet with the Utah Jazz, his agent Ron Shade of Octagon Basketball tells ESPN. Sixers have until Sunday at 11:59 PM ET to match sheet and retain Reed.

[R. DeMurre]

Holy shit, this move by Danny Ainge is so original: https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/37978331/76ers-free-agent-paul-reed-jr-signs-jazz-offer-sheet


The Jazz offered Paul Reed a 3 year/$23mil contract where the first year is guaranteed but years 2 & 3 are only guaranteed if his team advances to the conference semifinals, thus "Given where the two franchises stand, it is more likely the Sixers would have to guarantee the $15.7 million total for the 2024-25 and 2025-26 seasons than the Jazz."

[Mr. Body]

Holy shit, this move by Danny Ainge is so original: https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/37978331/76ers-free-agent-paul-reed-jr-signs-jazz-offer-sheet


The Jazz offered Paul Reed a 3 year/$23mil contract where the first year is guaranteed but years 2 & 3 are only guaranteed if his team advances to the conference semifinals, thus "Given where the two franchises stand, it is more likely the Sixers would have to guarantee the $15.7 million total for the 2024-25 and 2025-26 seasons than the Jazz."








Pretty insulting by Ainge.

[R. DeMurre]

Pretty insulting by Ainge.


Why Insulting? I think it's smart as hell. Plus Paul Reed deserves a restart after being misused by the 76ers his entire time there.

[Mr. Body]

Why Insulting? I think it's smart as hell. Plus Paul Reed deserves a restart after being misused by the 76ers his entire time there.

How is saying he doesn't deserve a full contract and tying the remaining years on the very unlikely outsized performance of his team as a whole not insulting? Ainge basically saying, "Ha, fuck you, I don't respect you."

[buttsR4rebounding]

How is saying he doesn't deserve a full contract and tying the remaining years on the very unlikely outsized performance of his team as a whole not insulting? Ainge basically saying, "Ha, fuck you, I don't respect you."

If he was actually insulted then he doesn't have to sign it. What a lame take. Plus he's being guaranteed over $7 million the first year. I didn't expect to see Reed get that type of offer. For a guy who hasn't shown a whole lot who has made a total of $4 million in his career this is a home run.

[RC_Drunkford]

Pretty insulting by Ainge.

Ainge: "I want to give you more money than you deserve"

Reed: "I'm offended"

[R. DeMurre]

How is saying he doesn't deserve a full contract and tying the remaining years on the very unlikely outsized performance of his team as a whole not insulting? Ainge basically saying, "Ha, fuck you, I don't respect you."


I think that stipulation is more to dissuade the 76ers from matching.

[R. DeMurre]

The depth the Jazz have in their front court now is impressive: Kessler, Collins, Markkanen, Olynyk, Taylor Hendricks, and maybe Paul Reed. Ainge is compiling a whole bunch of draft assets + role players for the inevitable future trade.

[Obstructed_View]

The depth the Jazz have in their front court now is impressive: Kessler, Collins, Markkanen, Olynyk, Taylor Hendricks, and maybe Paul Reed. Ainge is compiling a whole bunch of draft assets + role players for the inevitable future trade.

He's only been successful once, and that's how he did it.

[scott]

Ainge: "I want to give you more money than you deserve"

Reed: "I'm offended"

“I’m offended! But where do I sign?”

[ace3g]

https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1677760616101212160

[slick'81]

Suns have depended their roster with every minimum player available

[ace3g]

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1677758048583008259

[slick'81]

Poor patty getting whored out

[GAustex]

Rudy too

[Mr. Body]

If he was actually insulted then he doesn't have to sign it. What a lame take. Plus he's being guaranteed over $7 million the first year. I didn't expect to see Reed get that type of offer. For a guy who hasn't shown a whole lot who has made a total of $4 million in his career this is a home run.

It's actually a much worse contract that you guys are making out to be. Ainge is trying to reinvent contracts to make them depend on team performance, which I'm sure the PA won't be very happy about whatsoever.

No, those two additional seasons are just like "yeah, this is never going to happen." Beyond this, what Ainge is trying to pull is exceptionally dangerous for players if this catches on. I think he's 100% an asshole for trying it.

[R. DeMurre]

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/37980188/sources-hawks-get-patty-mills-deal-okc-save-45m

Mills traded for 3rd time in 10 days, OKC gets yet another 2nd round draft pick, and Atlanta... well, who knows what Atlanta is doing.

[R. DeMurre]

It's actually a much worse contract that you guys are making out to be. Ainge is trying to reinvent contracts to make them depend on team performance, which I'm sure the PA won't be very happy about whatsoever.

No, those two additional seasons are just like "yeah, this is never going to happen." Beyond this, what Ainge is trying to pull is exceptionally dangerous for players if this catches on. I think he's 100% an asshole for trying it.


Reed and his agent agreed to to it, and I'd bet there's a good chance they were fine with the added stipulation because it makes it less likely that the 76ers will match. They've mishandled Reed for 3 years and he probably just wants to get out of there. No one else has offered him $8mil to be a backup, so it seems like a pretty reasonable contract to me, and he would just be betting on himself to play well enough to get a better contract next year.

Granted, two things stick out for me here:
1. Most of the past issues stemmed from Doc Rivers, who's is no longer around.
2. None of us are privy to the negotiations, so it's impossible to say if Reed is fine with or insulted by the offer-- my guess is the former, but that's just a guess.

[Mr. Body]

Reed and his agent agreed to to it, and I'd bet there's a good chance they were fine with the added stipulation because it makes it less likely that the 76ers will match. They've mishandled Reed for 3 years and he probably just wants to get out of there. No one else has offered him $8mil to be a backup, so it seems like a pretty reasonable contract to me, and he would just be betting on himself to play well enough to get a better contract next year.

Granted, two things stick out for me here:
1. Most of the past issues stemmed from Doc Rivers, who's is no longer around.
2. None of us are privy to the negotiations, so it's impossible to say if Reed is fine with or insulted by the offer-- my guess is the former, but that's just a guess.

They signed it because they wanted the match.

Ultimately I care less about that than what Ainge is trying to do here, which is transform how contracts fundamentally work. I'm sure others have noticed. It's not good.

[scott]

Reed and his agent agreed to to it, and I'd bet there's a good chance they were fine with the added stipulation because it makes it less likely that the 76ers will match. They've mishandled Reed for 3 years and he probably just wants to get out of there. No one else has offered him $8mil to be a backup, so it seems like a pretty reasonable contract to me, and he would just be betting on himself to play well enough to get a better contract next year.

Granted, two things stick out for me here:
1. Most of the past issues stemmed from Doc Rivers, who's is no longer around.
2. None of us are privy to the negotiations, so it's impossible to say if Reed is fine with or insulted by the offer-- my guess is the former, but that's just a guess.

It's also quite possible that Reed really likes the idea of being a FA next year, and getting what amounts to a 1-year deal at well over his QO in a place where he may be better able to showcase himself going into FA is a win-win-win for him

[ace3g]

Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn
Reporting with
@espn_macmahon
: Dillon Brooks’ four-year, $80M deal with the Rockets? Well it’s landed at four-years $86M in the sign-and-trade — with $4M more in incentives that can bring it to $90M, sources tell ESPN

[Ariel]

They signed it because they wanted the match.
If they wanted the match there's no reason to include that clause about the playoffs and the no trade clause. That's 100% to disincentivize Philadelphia from matching, it's a big FU to Morey, he's telling him I'm not your currency.

[timvp]

Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn
Reporting with
@espn_macmahon
: Dillon Brooks’ four-year, $80M deal with the Rockets? Well it’s landed at four-years $86M in the sign-and-trade — with $4M more in incentives that can bring it to $90M, sources tell ESPN

Well done, Sprockets. Well done. :lol

Grizzlies dumped him, publicly said they weren't going to bring him back at any price, Sprockets sign him for $90 million when no one else was even trying to sign him.

[Ocotillo]

sprockets?

Now we dance.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/52/8c/ac/528cac6cd8d191921463687bdc22bc23.gif

[mo7888]

Philly matched the Paul Reed contract

Woj

[Mr. Body]

Well done, Sprockets. Well done. :lol

Grizzlies dumped him, publicly said they weren't going to bring him back at any price, Sprockets sign him for $90 million when no one else was even trying to sign him.

Dallas : hey you want pick swap?

Houston : Nah we giving Dillon Brooks more money.

[CGD]

Holy shit, this move by Danny Ainge is so original: https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/37978331/76ers-free-agent-paul-reed-jr-signs-jazz-offer-sheet


The Jazz offered Paul Reed a 3 year/$23mil contract where the first year is guaranteed but years 2 & 3 are only guaranteed if his team advances to the conference semifinals, thus "Given where the two franchises stand, it is more likely the Sixers would have to guarantee the $15.7 million total for the 2024-25 and 2025-26 seasons than the Jazz."








Thats creative, and honestly didn't know it was legal. Ive heard of incentives as enhancers on top of contracts and partially guaranteed deals, but not a combo like this.

[Mr. Body]

Thats creative, and honestly didn't know it was legal. Ive heard of incentives as enhancers on top of contracts and partially guaranteed deals, but not a combo like this.

It's not a good sign, as I commented elsewhere. Ainge is doing something filthy and I hope it doesn't catch on. The league/NPA needs to nip it in the bud.

[SpursFan86]

1678231564650713090

76ers matching the Jazz's offer for Reed.

[slick'81]

1678231564650713090

76ers matching the Jazz's offer for Reed.


wagering players contracts on team success?! Interesting

[CGD]

It's not a good sign, as I commented elsewhere. Ainge is doing something filthy and I hope it doesn't catch on. The league/NPA needs to nip it in the bud.

It feels weird, but i don't know what to think yet. In effect what he is trying to manufacture with this an "Arenas-type" offer sheet that puts a contender in a jam with their RFAs. I think it could be fair to the player if the guaranteed portion of the deal is on par with the player's annual market value (but ideally more to head off some future risk), and then the player could be the beneficiary of a squeeze on his incumbent team with little way to retain talent (presumably bc theyre a top flight team).

[Ariel]

It's not a good sign, as I commented elsewhere. Ainge is doing something filthy and I hope it doesn't catch on. The league/NPA needs to nip it in the bud.
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/37987778/76ers-match-3-year-23m-offer-sheet-paul-reed

Reed signed the offer sheet on Saturday morning, and the Sixers waited until 90 minutes prior to the 11:59 ET p.m. Sunday deadline to inform Utah that they matched the sheet.
One of the terms of the offer sheet provided a unique twist on Reed's contract: The first season of the contract is fully guaranteed, but the next two years worth $15.7 million become guaranteed if the Sixers advance to the Eastern Conference semifinals, sources said. Given where the two franchises stand, it was more likely the Sixers would have to guarantee those 2024-2025 and 2025-2026 seasons than the Jazz.
As the Houston Rockets general manager 11 years ago, Daryl Morey signed Chicago Bulls restricted free agent center Omer Asik to a three-year, $24.3 million offer sheet. The deal included a "poison pill" provision that backloaded $15 million in the third year of the contract, an idea that he worked on with Asik's agent, Justin Zanik.
Now, Zanik is the Jazz GM who delivered that unique guarantee provision in Reed's offer sheet.
The boomerang effect took a while but just came back to hit Morey in the head.

[rascal]

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1677758048583008259

How many PGs do the Hawks need?

[exstatic]

It's actually a much worse contract that you guys are making out to be. Ainge is trying to reinvent contracts to make them depend on team performance, which I'm sure the PA won't be very happy about whatsoever.

No, those two additional seasons are just like "yeah, this is never going to happen." Beyond this, what Ainge is trying to pull is exceptionally dangerous for players if this catches on. I think he's 100% an asshole for trying it.

It’s not novel. There have been contracts like this before. The worse team puts in conditions that they won’t meet so that their obligation is less than the team that has to match.

[exstatic]

1678231564650713090

76ers matching the Jazz's offer for Reed.

The league wasn’t destroyed. The sun didn’t go nova.

[cutewizard]

One more vet

[cutewizard]

Boban would be good in the locker room

[Mr. Body]

It’s not novel. There have been contracts like this before. The worse team puts in conditions that they won’t meet so that their obligation is less than the team that has to match.

This isn't the same as the Asik contract. This is something different.

[heyheymymy]

That's a spicy barb to plant in the Reed contract.

Why not put a term in the Reed contract like "whoever signs Reed has to wash the Utah Jazz GMs car every Saturday"

[TDMVPDPOY]

is there a young/veteran pg who can just contain the ball, runs plays, plays some sort of defense and spread the floor....

[onechance87]

is there a young/veteran pg who can just contain the ball, runs plays, plays some sort of defense and spread the floor....

not any on the free agent market...Just gonna roll with tre jones for this season it looks like

[exstatic]

This isn't the same as the Asik contract. This is something different.

Conceptually, it’s the same. It’s a contract provision that’s more difficult for the matching team than the offering team, based on a playoff parameter.

[ace3g]

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1678585430017740800

[Mugen]

Team option for the last year as well. Hopefully this brings Devins price down a little but I still think they’ll land at 4yr/100mil

[MultiTroll]

is there a young/veteran pg who can just contain the ball, runs plays, plays some sort of defense and spread the floor....


not any on the free agent market...Just gonna roll with tre jones for this season it looks like
Jalen Suggs purportedly being shopped.
7 mil final year. Team option for 9 mil the following year.

I know he can do anything Tre can do and it's only 1 year.
OTOH Tres locked in for two years so why bother.

Plus he's 6'5" and can play D. Not sure how that fits with Pops love affair with shrimpy guards.

[ace3g]

https://twitter.com/KeithSmithNBA/status/1678637021173096448

[cd98]

I just looked at an article on the best remaining free agents. I don't like to disparage players too much because even the guy barely out of the league is one of the best players in the world. But I can see why the Spurs are not going to be spend big bucks on what is left.

[MannyIsGod]

Have the Spurs announced the Tre Jones deal yet? If not they're still holding onto capspace.

[spurraider21]

Have the Spurs announced the Tre Jones deal yet? If not they're still holding onto capspace.
They have not

[BacktoBasics]

Jalen Suggs purportedly being shopped.
7 mil final year. Team option for 9 mil the following year.

I know he can do anything Tre can do and it's only 1 year.
OTOH Tres locked in for two years so why bother.

Plus he's 6'5" and can play D. Not sure how that fits with Pops love affair with shrimpy guards.

This guy hasn’t impressed me at all. He’s had some moments but also disappears for multiple game stretches.

[MannyIsGod]

They have not

Yeah so then they likely remain active in trade talks that would utilize that cap space.

[ace3g]

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1680012053790982146

[TDMVPDPOY]

george hill anyone?

[tbdog]

This guy hasn’t impressed me at all. He’s had some moments but also disappears for multiple game stretches.

Suggs has the tools and upside, and magic have to make a decision of their guards going forward. But he is in that list of'if only he could shoot'. Starting package would be Branham unfortunately.

[BacktoBasics]

Suggs has the tools and upside, and magic have to make a decision of their guards going forward. But he is in that list of'if only he could shoot'. Starting package would be Branham unfortunately.

I’m not inclined to disagree with you and haven’t watched Suggs as much as I have Branham. I’d probably ignore the hype and take Branham over Suggs at this point.

I think you’re not far off that Suggs might be the odd man out.

[spurraider21]

:cry reaves considered the spurs :cry

4:30


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmVhy5O2qZs

[rjv]

reaves mentions the spurs but i also got out of it that he really wanted to stay in LA more than anything else. the Lakers likely felt the same way.

[ace3g]

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1682390872363597827

[Mr. Body]

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1682390872363597827

TIL Wesley Matthews is still in the league.

[exstatic]

TIL Wesley Matthews is still in the league.

I watched his father play, and now he's aging out of the league.

[Ariel]

:cry reaves considered the spurs :cry

4:30


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmVhy5O2qZs
Sounds like we asked about him but nothing serious. He even lists us after Houston, who would have gone 100M for sure given the bag they threw at Dillon Brooks. Nothing to get worked up over.

[ace3g]

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1682459139497250816

[timtonymanu]

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1682390872363597827

Matthews finally gave up ring chasing. How many times did he hop around from contender to contender only to lose with them

[spurraider21]

not a bad deal

[spurraider21]

1684272936419721216


Scotto: Lakers guard Austin Reaves recently told All The Smoke on Showtime (https://hoopshype.com/rumor/houston-and-san-antonio-were-possibilities-for-austin-reaves-before-re-signing-with-lakers/) that the Rockets and Spurs were possibilities before he re-signed with the Lakers. The Spurs considered offering Reaves a restricted free agency sheet worth $21 million per season, league sources told HoopsHype. Ultimately, however, the Spurs were scared off by the widespread belief that the Lakers would match any offer sheet for Reaves and chose to preserve cap space as a salary dump destination for future draft pick compensation. The Rockets were also closely monitoring Reaves’ situation because they were prepared to make a big offer sheet if Fred VanVleet didn’t sign with them, sources said.

[mo7888]

1684272936419721216



So, $21M/per was what he was worth to our FO. That's about right... We made the right decision in using our cap the way we did though.

[CorrectCrusader]

1684272936419721216



PATFO did the right thing.

[CGD]

1684272936419721216



Didn’t we already know this? He was on some pod like 2 weeks ago no?

[spurraider21]

Didn’t we already know this? He was on some pod like 2 weeks ago no?
he mentioned in the past that the spurs/rockets also had some interest in him but that he wanted to stay with LAL. as far as we know, no formal offers were made to him.

this report from today has a "league source" that told them the spurs were considering making an offer of 21 mil per year. that is the new info.

[MultiTroll]

overated Reeves.

Thankfully it's over.

[td4mvp2k]

if not for lakers matching he'd be a spur.. good to know. i can live with the spurs getting the multiple picks though.

[spurraider21]

if not for lakers matching he'd be a spur.. good to know. i can live with the spurs getting the multiple picks though.
well, the spurs never signed him to an offer sheet, so the lakers didnt match. it had been widely reported that they WOULD have matched basically anything. might have been a bluff to ward off potential offers though

[Seventyniner]

I don't think there was any reason for the Spurs to offer Reaves less than the full 4/100 max. If the Spurs decided he wasn't worth that much money, or that the risk of not being able to absorb contracts for draft capital was too great (due to them thinking the Lakers would be likely to match anyway and/or being happy with what they thought they could get using cap space to take on salary), not making an offer makes sense.

[Obstructed_View]

How would he know what the Spurs were considering? :lol

[Maddog]

How would he know what the Spurs were considering? :lol

Right
I'm a little skeptical
The Spurs have said all along they where not going to pursue free agency and looking to see how the current young players develop. All moves have been to acquire draft picks (albeit 2nd rounders) for expiring deals.
Just don't see them offering 21 million per year for a 25 year old with one good season under his belt.

[Mr. Body]

Right
I'm a little skeptical
The Spurs have said all along they where not going to pursue free agency and looking to see how the current young players develop. All moves have been to acquire draft picks (albeit 2nd rounders) for expiring deals.
Just don't see them offering 21 million per year for a 25 year old with one good season under his belt.

Who they couldn't get.

The news is basically:
Austin Reaves: yeah the Spurs were interested.
League Source: yeah the Spurs were interested and totally going to offer this wad.

Where the league source could just be Austin Reaves' agent. There was a lot of anger around here that Reaves' agent couldn't get an offer from another team, when the LAL were going to match regardless. This could just be PR covering that base or the Spurs could have just said "Yeah, totally we're thinking about it" when his agent was rustling up interest, when they were working on other things.

It never made much sense to tie up cap for one of the most vital weeks of the off-season when they were working on things like the Bullock trade and other stuff that may have never transpired.

[exstatic]

Right
I'm a little skeptical
The Spurs have said all along they where not going to pursue free agency and looking to see how the current young players develop. All moves have been to acquire draft picks (albeit 2nd rounders) for expiring deals.
Just don't see them offering 21 million per year for a 25 year old with one good season under his belt.

And a FRP swap with Dallas. That's likely the most valuable draft asset we received this summer, and the cherry on top is that Dallas needed to make the trade to try to get both Williams and Thybulle, and Cuban got punked by Portland, who matched the Thybulle offer sheet. :rollin

[ace3g]

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1686068855712464896

[ace3g]

https://twitter.com/ChrisBHaynes/status/1687954959269072896

[spurraider21]

1692617270252691456

[Leetonidas]

Waived after your rookie year? Ouch

[Mr. Body]

Waived after your rookie year? Ouch

Thunder thought they could squeeze a pick out of him but were wrong. Somebody will pick him up.

They wanted to get something for him but there were no takers. He'll sign

[exstatic]

Waived after your rookie year? Ouch

Salary dumped by HOU first and THEN waived. His NBA numbers weren't good, but he kind of crushed it in the gleague in limited time.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Wouldn’t be mad if the Spurs pick him up on a 2-way.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Wouldn’t be mad if the Spurs pick him up on a 2-way.

I think he'll land somewhere. His G league numbers were gaudy in a fairly small sample size.

[J_Paco]

Wouldn’t be mad if the Spurs pick him up on a 2-way.


I think he'll land somewhere. His G league numbers were gaudy in a fairly small sample size.

The Spurs should definitely see if he's interested in taking a Two-Way deal as a "flyer" with a possible guaranteed deal down the road (if he balls out of his mind).

Even with Rice, Wesley, Graham, Payne, and Jones on the roster (for now) another PG would be great, IMO.

[timtonymanu]

When I looked up TyTy, why does he look so much like Snoop from the wire?

[Mr. Body]

Let's just say not every guard from Kentucky is some hidden basketball god.

[spurraider21]

When I looked up TyTy, why does he look so much like Snoop from the wire?
Nevermind you “why.” Why ain’t in yo repertoire no mo

[exstatic]

I think he'll land somewhere. His G league numbers were gaudy in a fairly small sample size.

His gleague numbers would be what I would have expected from Scoot in his second gleague season.

[exstatic]

Let's just say not every guard from Kentucky is some hidden basketball god.

Enough drafted ones are that it's a "thing".

Devin Booker
D'Aaron Fox
SGA
Tyler Herro
Tyrese Maxey
Malik Monk
Jamal Murray
Emanuel Quickley

You have some absolute stars, but even the late first rounders like Maxey and Quickley seem to turn into serviceable players, which is all you're looking for at that point. The only absolute failure/washout would have been BJ Boston.

[Mr. Body]

Enough drafted ones are that it's a "thing".

Devin Booker
D'Aaron Fox
SGA
Tyler Herro
Tyrese Maxey
Malik Monk
Jamal Murray
Emanuel Quickley

You have some absolute stars, but even the late first rounders like Maxey and Quickley seem to turn into serviceable players, which is all you're looking for at that point. The only absolute failure/washout would have been BJ Boston.

There are a lot of others that have sucked. It's just a numbers thing. Calipari gets the pick of the litter between him and Duke every year. There's bound to be a lot of good players who come through his program. It has nothing to do with Kentucky itself.

[exstatic]

There are a lot of others that have sucked. It's just a numbers thing. Calipari gets the pick of the litter between him and Duke every year. There's bound to be a lot of good players who come through his program. It has nothing to do with Kentucky itself.

One who were drafted? Name them, please.

I get that you don't want Tyty on the Spurs but trying to tear down the solid legacy of drafted UK guards isn't the way to make your point, and in fact works against you.

[Mr. Body]

One who were drafted? Name them, please.

I get that you don't want Tyty on the Spurs but trying to tear down the solid legacy of drafted UK guards isn't the way to make your point, and in fact works against you.

I never said I didn't want Washington on the team, lmao. But a Kentucky guard getting drafted isn't a guarantee to stardom. Stop masturbating in public, it's shameful.

[exstatic]

I never said I didn't want Washington on the team, lmao. But a Kentucky guard getting drafted isn't a guarantee to stardom. Stop masturbating in public, it's shameful.

Never actually said that, but it is a pretty good guarantee of an NBA career beyond the rookie contract, and they do produce SOME stars, more than a few, and a bunch of really good players with the later picks.

You still haven't named any UK drafted guards that flamed out in the Calipari era. I spotted you BJ Boston, a second rounder. It's also hilarious that you cry about them and Duke divvying up all the good players in each HS class. Well, duh, when you start with a crop of good to great players every year, that's what comes out of your program. That's the fucking point.

[Mr. Body]

Just go through yourself. https://basketball.realgm.com/ncaa/conferences/Southeastern-Conference/8/Kentucky/258/nba-draft

Like I said, Kentucky gets like four blue chip players a year. Most of them don't make it into the NBA. Does Calipari ruin more good prospects than he turns out? Maybe. The ones that go through do pretty well. I wouldn't go crazy over Maxey or Herro, who are basically the same player. SGA and Fox are made for this era -- they're coddled by no-defense rules. Jamal Murray and SGA are probably the best, and Murray needed Jokic and a good coach to get him there.

It's not some magic trick that Kentucky players do well in the NBA. It's just that Cal throws so many top 10-15 high school guys at the wall that a number of them make it. Duke under K did the same thing, 4-5 top prospects every single year. Most players in those programs don't make it. So, yeah, you're trying to find a signal in the noise by claiming "UK player + drafted = star" and that's inept thinking. You'll get your Trey Lyles out of that way of thinking.

[exstatic]

Just go through yourself. https://basketball.realgm.com/ncaa/conferences/Southeastern-Conference/8/Kentucky/258/nba-draft

Like I said, Kentucky gets like four blue chip players a year. Most of them don't make it into the NBA. Does Calipari ruin more good prospects than he turns out? Maybe. The ones that go through do pretty well. I wouldn't go crazy over Maxey or Herro, who are basically the same player. SGA and Fox are made for this era -- they're coddled by no-defense rules. Jamal Murray and SGA are probably the best, and Murray needed Jokic and a good coach to get him there.

It's not some magic trick that Kentucky players do well in the NBA. It's just that Cal throws so many top 10-15 high school guys at the wall that a number of them make it. Duke under K did the same thing, 4-5 top prospects every single year. Most players in those programs don't make it. So, yeah, you're trying to find a signal in the noise by claiming "UK player + drafted = star" and that's inept thinking. You'll get your Trey Lyles out of that way of thinking.


Your reading comprehension is like 2nd grade level. In every post in this exchange I have made a point to say DRAFTED UK guards, not recruited UK guards. Name some DRAFTED UK guards that flamed out, besides BJ Boston, who I've already named. Come up with a list as long as the success stories and flat superstars on the list I made, then you may have a point. Just to emphasize for your feeble reading skills, DRAFTED UK guards. DRAFTED UK guards, one more time.

The subject is also GUARDS, not UK players. They don't produce nearly as many top players at other positions. Lyles is only one of the big men busts they've had, but nice attempt to move the goal posts once again.

[spurraider21]

Bucks signed Tyty to a two-way

damn, and we still have an open 2-way spot

[Mr. Body]

Bucks signed Tyty to a two-way

damn, and we still have an open 2-way spot

Do you realize how many guards we have?

[spurraider21]

Do you realize how many guards we have?
i realize we have several players on the roster listed at guard, yes

[Mr. Body]

i realize we have several players on the roster listed at guard, yes

Closer to half. Maybe the Spurs weren't interested. Maybe they were but Mr. TyTy wanted to get playing time somewhere else. Right now the Spurs have a huge glut of guards as it is.

[spurraider21]

Closer to half.
the thing is, that doesnt really mean anything to me. we are talking abouta 2-way spot. we might have a lot of nominal guards. thats fine. we dont really know if any of them will be good or starting caliber players outside of Vassell, who isn't currently under contract beyond this season.


Maybe the Spurs weren't interested. Maybe they were but Mr. TyTy wanted to get playing time somewhere else. Right now the Spurs have a huge glut of guards as it is.
this is all plausible. i thought tyty would be worthy two-way player given his potential and skill set, while playing at a position where we are lacking proven talent. no harm in adding another lottery ticket. maybe the spurs had interest and he wanted to go elsewhere. if so, damn. hence my post saying "damn, and we still have an open two-way spot"

[Ocotillo]

Yeah I was hoping they would snag Tyty for a two way but Body has a point, heck, one of our two ways already is a point guard so I guess they are rolling the dice with Rice rather than Washington.

[Bruno]

The three two way players and players like Wesley and Cissoko will end up playing together in Austin. They will influence each other development.

Tyty Washington is a ball dominant player in G-League and will take away a lot of offensive touches from other Spurs' prospects. Signing him wouldn't be a neutral move for the rest of the roster.

I think Spurs have signed Sir'Jabari Rice with that in mind. He certainly isn't the most exciting prospect, mostly because he is already 24 years old, but he has a good attitude and plays the right way. He may never become a NBA player but he will be a player that will bring quality and stability to the Austin Spurs which will help other Spurs' prospects.


As it stands, Spurs don't have a roster spot to sign a third two way player. They have 20 players under contract. The 21st and last roster spot should be Charles Bediako with a training camp contract. They can always waive someone before training camp to sign the third two way player or they can simply wait roster cuts at the end of training camps to see if there is an opportunity to add a player they like with a two way contract.

[heyheymymy]

Javale McGee signs min contract with the Sacramento Kings

[exstatic]

Javale McGee signs min contract with the Sacramento Kings

Shaq’tin a Fool will continue.

[ace3g]

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1699255335477711022

[ace3g]

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1699259853342900714

[ismael-robert]

Surprised he's not traumatized that Joel's gonna fall on his knee again

[kobyz]

You all laughed at the Dillon Brooks signing, but he worth every penny Houston threw at him, absolutely steal, Memphis would be very sorry letting him go...

[CGD]

You all laughed at the Dillon Brooks signing, but he worth every penny Houston threw at him, absolutely steal, Memphis would be very sorry letting him go...

He did seem like a Memphis type of guy, but it felt like the relationship their had taken a turn. The concern in Houston is not fit but finding minutes for the young guys after paying Brooks big money.

[exstatic]

He did seem like a Memphis type of guy, but it felt like the relationship their had taken a turn. The concern in Houston is not fit but finding minutes for the young guys after paying Brooks big money.

They’ll end up paying to offload young guys with draft picks again, just like they did with TyTy and Garuba this summer.

[buttsR4rebounding]

He did seem like a Memphis type of guy, but it felt like the relationship their had taken a turn. The concern in Houston is not fit but finding minutes for the young guys after paying Brooks big money.

Brooks never embraced the role as a defensive specialist only. He thinks he is also a main offensive threat and jacks up 3's like he's the first option, but at a 32% clip.

[exstatic]

Brooks never embraced the role as a defensive specialist only. He thinks he is also a main offensive threat and jacks up 3's like he's the first option, but at a 32% clip.

He also didn’t understand that as a specialist, you don’t trashtalk legends.

[Seventyniner]

He also didn’t understand that as a specialist, you don’t trashtalk legends.

Modern day Ruben Patterson.

[toki9]

Modern day Ruben Patterson.

I hope he doesn’t have a nanny, then.

[R. DeMurre]

I still like Isaac Bonga as a guy to keep an eye on for the future, for a potential Bruce Bowen style bench player. He doesn't score much but defends well and moves the ball, and just won Gold with Team Germany. He's signed this year for his German Euroleague team, but could be an interesting inexpensive option later on. 6'8", 7' wingspan, has an improving 3pt shot. Could be a good deep bench asset.

[MultiTroll]

:pop:
Assault case against former Spurs player Bryn Forbes dismissed | kens5.com (https://www.kens5.com/article/sports/nba/spurs/assault-case-against-former-spurs-bryn-forbes-dismissed/273-6c75cf57-c174-4989-bcff-d20992a45a47#:~:text=SAN%20ANTONIO%20%E2%80%94%20F ormer%20Spurs%20player%20Bryn%20Forbes,a%20pre-trial%20diversion%20program%20offered%20by%20Bexar %20County.) :stirpot:

[spurraider21]

rockets would have to give up more than just a flimsly 2nd to unload him imo. could be a way for us to get some more draft comp instead of just waiving a couple of guys. i think birch + osman works. nobody has cap space at this point to just absorb him. houston could get some expirings including birch who can probably get them an injury exception too

1702097897821528064

[mo7888]

rockets would have to give up more than just a flimsly 2nd to unload him imo. could be a way for us to get some more draft comp instead of just waiving a couple of guys. i think birch + osman works. nobody has cap space at this point to just absorb him. houston could get some expirings including birch who can probably get them an injury exception too

1702097897821528064

Yup... I've put zero thought into it but if we can move a few pieces for him for good compensation (do they even have any good compensation left?) then that could make sense if nothing materializes. Of course, we waive him before the inks dry on tne trade.

[BacktoBasics]

Didn’t he just sign an extension. Waiving would be costly if that’s the case.

[spurraider21]

Didn’t he just sign an extension. Waiving would be costly if that’s the case.
only has 1 mil guaranteed beyond this season

[BacktoBasics]

only has 1 mil guaranteed beyond this season

That’s not bad at all. They should be able to move him if they’re truly motivated. Two 2nds and cash might get it done.

[Mr. Body]

Not clear what's going on here with the Rockets.

How do you get to the point where you're paying Kevin Porter Jr $15 million a year? Granted it was year-by-year but the amount is bizarre.

They're looking for a player who can help them now. It's not a salary dump. I read this as a player who may have more than one year on his contract.

Who is this player? What could they possibly be looking for? Rox are a pile of mismatched parts already, why would they use assets to throw another player on the pile?

From a PR standpoint, just waive him. Move on. Team-building, they're like the anti-Spurs this summer, just throwing random stuff together, some of it really expensive. It seems like their directives are all crossed, with the demand to win now - they don't own their own draft destiny - but there's no order to it. And now they say they want to spend more draft capital for some random, unseen good player.

I wouldn't trade for KPJ even just to waive him. It's a bad PR move for fanbases who don't always see the logic behind deals. But then it looks like they want more than a Reggie Bullock type anyway.

[Mr. Body]

That’s not bad at all. They should be able to move him if they’re truly motivated. Two 2nds and cash might get it done.

That's $7.5 million per second round pick. Plus you'd be giving up a supposedly good player. I don't understand it.

[BacktoBasics]

That's $7.5 million per second round pick. Plus you'd be giving up a supposedly good player. I don't understand it.

That’s a fair point.

[spurraider21]

spotrac article ranking the worst signings/acquisitions



NO OFFER SHEETS – SAN ANTONIO SPURS (https://www.spotrac.com/nba/san-antonio-spurs/cap/)

CONTRACT: NONE

Fine, this is cheating, but sometimes the worst things are missed opportunities. That was the case with the San Antonio Spurs this offseason.

The Spurs had over $30 million in cap space this summer. They used that $30 million to come away with exactly zero long-term rotation players. And they didn’t even acquire great assets by renting out their cap space either. A couple of vets may stick for this season, but the chances of them being a part of the next great Spurs team are very, very small.

It’s fair to point out that the free agent class wasn’t a great one. Inevitably, someone will say “Did you want San Antonio to do what Houston did?” And that’s a reasonable question. But the Spurs weren’t under the same pressure to add win-now pieces, which is where the strategy differs.

And that strategy mostly falls at the feet of not making any of the incumbent teams sweat with a restricted free agent offer sheet. The most-talked-about example was with Austin Reaves. San Antonio could have forced the Los Angeles Lakers to match a nearly $100 million offer sheet, and to take on the wonky cap hits that would have come with matching. But the Spurs left Reaves dangling for too long, and he eventually re-sign with the Lakers.

They also stayed away from Herb Jones, who in fairness likely had a prearranged deal with the New Orleans Pelicans when they declined their team option. Cam Johnson could have made some sense. Grant Williams and P.J. Washington certainly made sense. Even Ayo Dosunmu and Coby White could have made sense for point guard-thin Spurs.

Mostly, this was a chance for San Antonio to do that second big thing, after drafting Victor Wembanyama. Instead, they just punted on it to act as a clearinghouse for cap- and tax-strapped teams, without coming away with any choice assets for doing so.

https://www.spotrac.com/news/worst-deals-of-the-2023-nba-offseason-2017/

[Mr. Body]

spotrac article ranking the worst signings/acquisitions




https://www.spotrac.com/news/worst-deals-of-the-2023-nba-offseason-2017/

Just endless with these braindead, idiot takes. 1) The FO told the world explicitly what they wanted (or didn't want) to do; 2) Stop with the fucking Austin Reaves bullshit. Goddamn it makes people look like pinheads.

[exstatic]

Just endless with these braindead, idiot takes. 1) The FO told the world explicitly what they wanted (or didn't want) to do; 2) Stop with the fucking Austin Reaves bullshit. Goddamn it makes people look like pinheads.

They're so dumb, they thought that we rented our cap room for Bullock, Payne, and Cedi. Hey dumbasses, you take on contracts people don't want for picks. We got two SRPs in the Cedi trade, one SRP and a bag of cash in the Payne trade, and an unprotected 2030 FRP swap from Dallas.

[Leetonidas]

spotrac article ranking the worst signings/acquisitions




https://www.spotrac.com/news/worst-deals-of-the-2023-nba-offseason-2017/

Not commiting big money to guys who don't move the needle to preserve flexibility seems like a win to me. Dumb article

[spurraider21]

i think the article's main flaw is that it says we didnt get back any meaningful assets, but that mavs pick swap should certainly qualify

[exstatic]

i think the article's main flaw is that it says we didnt get back any meaningful assets, but that mavs pick swap should certainly qualify

:lol They said that they didn't think any of Cedi, Payne, or Bullock were in the Spurs long term plans. Hey dumbasses, they won't be on the opening night roster.

[Mr. Body]

It's like the two choices are either spending ungodly money for Fred Van Vleet and Dillon Brooks or do nothing.

Except the do nothing part brought in some draft stuff. I know people were miffed that it wasn't huge hauls, but those days are gone.

[exstatic]

It's like the two choices are either spending ungodly money for Fred Van Vleet and Dillon Brooks or do nothing.

Except the do nothing part brought in some draft stuff. I know people were miffed that it wasn't huge hauls, but those days are gone.

Yeah,between us, Utah, and OKC,there just aren’t FRPs available to trade. The well is dry.

[spurraider21]

It's like the two choices are either spending ungodly money for Fred Van Vleet and Dillon Brooks or do nothing.

Except the do nothing part brought in some draft stuff. I know people were miffed that it wasn't huge hauls, but those days are gone.
not sure why people pretend that the only options were to do exactly what the spurs did and do exactly what houston did

btw, the article addresses that point exactly


It’s fair to point out that the free agent class wasn’t a great one. Inevitably, someone will say “Did you want San Antonio to do what Houston did?” And that’s a reasonable question. But the Spurs weren’t under the same pressure to add win-now pieces, which is where the strategy differs.

[exstatic]

not sure why people pretend that the only options were to do exactly what the spurs did and do exactly what houston did

btw, the article addresses that point exactly

SA and Houston did the exact opposite things and both got panned for it. There's no way to win with these guys.

BTW, why is Houston under more pressure to win now than we are? Other than making shitty trades, and having their pick for 2024 only top 4 protected, that is. If anything, they should avoid making bad, short term decisions to keep one draft pick from conveying as a good pick. You win more games to make your pick worse when it conveys? Yeah, that'll improve your long term outlook.

[ace3g]

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1703903362604024025

[spurraider21]

SA and Houston did the exact opposite things and both got panned for it. There's no way to win with these guys.
now you are pretending that the only options were to do exactly what the spurs did and do exactly what houston did

(fwiw i was generally pleased with how our offseason went. i do wish we took a swing at at least one of the RFAs mentioned, but using our cap room to acquire picks is fine by me)

[exstatic]

now you are pretending that the only options were to do exactly what the spurs did and do exactly what houston did



How are we signing anyone? We have had up to 20 guaranteed nba contracts this summer, and still have 18.

Anyway,it doesn’t matter if we see these as the only options, or if we see a million options. The Spurs said they were going to see how things would go with who they have now, and they did exactly that.

[spurraider21]

How are we signing anyone? We have had up to 20 guaranteed nba contracts this summer, and still have 18.

Anyway,it doesn’t matter if we see these as the only options, or if we see a million options. The Spurs said they were going to see how things would go with who they have now, and they did exactly that.
nobody is denying what the spurs said (or rather what timvp reported was their thinking). the question is whether what they did was good

if i told you i was going to shit my pants and then i did, i'd still deserve criticism for it, and wouldnt be able to lean back and say "you shouldnt criticize me because i told you what i was going to do and then i did it"

i think the spurs overall did well but left some meat on the bone

[Mr. Body]

nobody is denying what the spurs said (or rather what timvp reported was their thinking). the question is whether what they did was good

if i told you i was going to shit my pants and then i did, i'd still deserve criticism for it, and wouldnt be able to lean back and say "you shouldnt criticize me because i told you what i was going to do and then i did it"

i think the spurs overall did well but left some meat on the bone

What meat was left on the bone?

[ChumpDumper]

What meat was left on the bone?

We're going to get a lot of Austin Reaves stat lines posted here this season.

[CGD]

spotrac article ranking the worst signings/acquisitions




https://www.spotrac.com/news/worst-deals-of-the-2023-nba-offseason-2017/

What complete trash. Not only does he undercut his argument at least 3 times, but ignores the fact that the Spurs did get decent assets within the context of a shitty summer market. In a world where teams were not giving up FRPs getting that swap was pretty damn good.

Basically this guy is a Suns, Celtics or Warriors fan who is pissed that the Spurs didn’t make the Lakers pay more for Reeves. Peddling the same Bill Simmons complaint, which curiously Simmons himself back away from some after the Italians dominated Reeves in the World Cup.

[JPB]

nobody is denying what the spurs said (or rather what timvp reported was their thinking). the question is whether what they did was good...I think the spurs overall did well but left some meat on the bone

Wright said just that in press conference. And I really don't see any kind of pertinent move that wouldn't hurt long term development spurs could have made.

You have a bunch of intriguing young players on your team, it's not stupid to see who you can actually relying on around Wemby before making structural moves. Why suddenly blowing up the plan when Wemby hasn't played one NBA game and you're not excatly sure what position he'll be more comfortable with, and who would better fit around? It's pretty wise to use this year to see exactly what could be the identity of your team with Victor, before trying to upgrade with all the assets you have. And again, what move anyway spurs could have done? Let's not overestimate the value our youngsters have in other GMs eyes.


We're going to get a lot of Austin Reaves stat lines posted here this season.

Reaves was never leaving LA.

[CGD]

We're going to get a lot of Austin Reaves stat lines posted here this season.

Yup— this is just fans being butt hurt about the Reeves thing.

[spurraider21]

We're going to get a lot of Austin Reaves stat lines posted here this season.
It’s a verified fact that the only free agents in the nba this offseason were Vanvleet, Brooks, and Reaves

[ChumpDumper]

It’s a verified fact that the only free agents in the nba this offseason were Vanvleet, Brooks, and Reaves

Reaves is the one you bring up the most, but OK -- whose stat lines will you be posting this season?

[Mr. Body]

Who was actually available this summer? Who was available for only a single season? IMO only Brook Lopez was really enticing and he was always going back to Milwaukee.

[Ariel]

Reaves was never leaving LA.
Right, and this is the end of it. Austin Reaves was a RESTRICTED free agent and the Lakers couldn't afford to let him go, anyone thinking there was a chance of him leaving LA is delusional. The only real choice the Spurs had was screwing the Lakers over, or taking another 2nd round pick. That is why Bill Simmons is so salty, not because of what the Spurs lost (i.e, NOTHING) but because of what THE LAKERS COULD HAVE LOST (all he really cares about). But as it stands right now we're on a different timeline than the Lakers, so as nice as screwing them over would have been it wasn't worth it right now.

[Dverde]

DroppingDimes saying Nurkic for Ayton is being discussed. Toronto trying to get Dame, but Dame only wants Miami.

[Mr. Body]

DroppingDimes saying Nurkic for Ayton is being discussed.

What is a trade that makes both teams worse?

[spurraider21]

Reaves is the one you bring up the most, but OK -- whose stat lines will you be posting this season?
I’m not in the habit of randomly posting players statlines

[scott]

Keith Smith is definitely better at analyzing hoops than the members of ST.com, but it's good to see Spurs fans back to criticizing any contrary opinion the media writes. WE BACK.

[CGD]

Sounds like Pacers trying to move Buddy Hield. Extension talks failed. He’s on a $19M expiring.

Consolidation trade anyone?

[exstatic]

Sounds like Pacers trying to move Buddy Hield. Extension talks failed. He’s on a $19M expiring.

Consolidation trade anyone?

They're moving him because he's a one trick pony who was extremely valuable when he was shooting 43% from long, but much less so when shooting 38% from long. He really does nothing else, and in 9 seasons, he has 21 win shares.

[spurraider21]

Sounds like Pacers trying to move Buddy Hield. Extension talks failed. He’s on a $19M expiring.

Consolidation trade anyone?
consolidating for the sake of consolidating is meh. its not like the pacers will be attaching draft compensation to unload him, and i dont think we actually want hield on the team (as opposed to a hypothetical consolidation deal with lowry, where his presence would be welcomed).

[scott]

Sounds like Pacers trying to move Buddy Hield. Extension talks failed. He’s on a $19M expiring.

Consolidation trade anyone?

Of these 3 2022-23 stat lines, which one would you prefer for this team?




FG%
3P%
eFG%
USG%
WS/48
DBPM
BPM
VORP


Player A
.458
.425
.596
20.8
.085
-0.6
1.9
2.4


Player B
.457
.413
.575
19.2
.035
-2.5
-3.2
-0.4


Player C
.409
.380
.569
10.0
.056
-0.3
-2.6
-0.4

[Leetonidas]

Crazy that Hield has the most total points of anyone in his draft class

[Mr. Body]

Crazy that Hield has the most total points of anyone in his draft class

Man that's one shitty draft class. Holy crap.

[spurraider21]

They're moving him because he's a one trick pony who was extremely valuable when he was shooting 43% from long, but much less so when shooting 38% from long. He really does nothing else, and in 9 seasons, he has 21 win shares.
he hit 42.5% of them last year, higher than his career average

[spurraider21]

Of these 3 2022-23 stat lines, which one would you prefer for this team?




FG%
3P%
eFG%
USG%
WS/48
DBPM
BPM
VORP


Player A
.458
.425
.596
20.8
.085
-0.6
1.9
2.4


Player B
.457
.413
.575
19.2
.035
-2.5
-3.2
-0.4


Player C

Player D
.409

.529
.380

.398
.569

.616
10.0

16.2
.056

.142
-0.3

0.1
-2.6

0.7
-0.4

1.2

[scott]

LOL @ spurraider21, I knew it would be him before even looking it up :lol

[spurraider21]

LOL @ spurraider21, I knew it would be him before even looking it up :lol
its gonna be a good meme for a while tbh :lol

[exstatic]

he hit 42.5% of them last year, higher than his career average

It had been a steady decline for 4-5 years before that. I don’t trust a one year bump on a downgrade, especially going into extension eligibility. Call it the Bonzi Wells effect. If you go through his career stats, you can very easily pick out which years were contract ones.

[spurraider21]

It had been a steady decline for 4-5 years before that. I don’t trust a one year bump on a downgrade, especially going into extension eligibility. Call it the Bonzi Wells effect. If you go through his career stats, you can very easily pick out which years were contract ones.
He just hit 42.5% in a non contract year. He’s hit under 39% exactly one season in his career

[exstatic]

He just hit 42.5% in a non contract year. He’s hit under 39% exactly one season in his career

Back in Bonzi's day, extensions were crap, much lower than a new deal. Now, there isn't as much difference, so the extension eligible year is the one to show out if you're otherwise unmotivated.

[spurraider21]

Back in Bonzi's day, extensions were crap, much lower than a new deal. Now, there isn't as much difference, so the extension eligible year is the one to show out if you're otherwise unmotivated.
im not talking about bonzi wells

buddy hield is coming off a season shooting 42.5% from 3 and was not in a contract year. he has shot under 39% from 3 exactly one season in his 7 years in the league. if you are going to call "extension eligible years" contract years then you're just watering your claim down since youre basically doubling the amount of years that can be considered contract years

[ChumpDumper]

I’m not in the habit of randomly posting players statlines

There won't be anything random about it. That's why I asked.

[spurraider21]

There won't be anything random about it. That's why I asked.
i wont be starting a jimmer tracker type thread, dont worry

[ChumpDumper]

i wont be starting a jimmer tracker type thread, dont worryI didn't say it would be a thread.

[spurraider21]

I didn't say it would be a thread.
are you looking for a commitment right now on how many times i will discuss stats of another nba player over the course of the upcoming season?

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Masai Ujiri throwing Siakam under the bus unprompted on media day :lol

[Mr. Body]

Chatter picking up about Harden to the Clippers. LAC can't offer much (and won't). They seem to be trying to get more draft assets than an unprotected FRP and a swap but I doubt there's anything in it for the Spurs. Earlier in the summer I was interested in peeling off Plumlee or even Zubac -- they're in money hell as a team -- but the Spurs seem pretty pat right now.

[CGD]

Chatter picking up about Harden to the Clippers. LAC can't offer much (and won't). They seem to be trying to get more draft assets than an unprotected FRP and a swap but I doubt there's anything in it for the Spurs. Earlier in the summer I was interested in peeling off Plumlee or even Zubac -- they're in money hell as a team -- but the Spurs seem pretty pat right now.

Im sure the Harden camp is desperate to gin up whatever they can.

[Mr. Body]

Im sure the Harden camp is desperate to gin up whatever they can.

Absolutely. It's even worse than with Lillard, though. Same thing with publicly wanting only one team. That team has barely anything to give. And Harden has shoved himself off three teams in four years, is older, and you have to build an offense around him pounding the shit out of the ball.

[exstatic]

Chatter picking up about Harden to the Clippers. LAC can't offer much (and won't). They seem to be trying to get more draft assets than an unprotected FRP and a swap but I doubt there's anything in it for the Spurs. Earlier in the summer I was interested in peeling off Plumlee or even Zubac -- they're in money hell as a team -- but the Spurs seem pretty pat right now.

Morey must have been pissed at the Dame trade, where the direct haul was one FRP and two swaps. He'll just have to realize that it's harder work these days, and that he might have to take players, and flip them for further assets.

[scott]

Morey also has to contend with the inconvenient fact that no one really wants Harden

[BacktoBasics]

Morey also has to contend with the inconvenient fact that no one really wants Harden

He’s been miserable almost everywhere he’s played. It’s looking more and more like he’s miles away from putting a positive stamp on the end of his career. I do think Morey probably led him to believe certain things by opting in. Perhaps an outline of a deal in place etc. But there wasn’t a strong FA market for him to begin with unless he was going to take a massive paycut.

[scott]

Don’t have time to look for it now, but apparently the story from Houston was that a Max contract was a done deal, but Harden stated his top goal was to be scoring champ so Ime said fuck that and pulled the offer. :lol

[JPB]

Don’t have time to look for it now, but apparently the story from Houston was that a Max contract was a done deal, but Harden stated his top goal was to be scoring champ so Ime said fuck that and pulled the offer. :lol

Not sure Ime would really have a say here tbh.

[scott]

Not sure Ime would really have a say here tbh.

https://www.si.com/nba/2023/10/04/rockets-pursued-max-deal-james-harden-ime-udoka-scoring-ambitions-clear

Definitely more skeptical of this story since its coming from Stephen A

[JPB]

https://www.si.com/nba/2023/10/04/rockets-pursued-max-deal-james-harden-ime-udoka-scoring-ambitions-clear

Definitely more skeptical of this story since its coming from Stephen A

The "if true" to start the last paragraph and other "perhaps", plus the sensational way the article is written definitely makes you pause... But who knows, even though I really have a hard time believing Ime would force a willing HOU FO to renounce the trade. I mean like any coach he could be fired at the end of the season, or even before, if things are going bad (or he bangs another personal member). They may ask their coach's opinion, but that kind of trade is ultimately only validated (or not) by GMs and owners (Pop aside) if you ask me. Not to mention the fragile position Ime was before being hired by Houston. Not sure he would already have that kind of power.

[buttsR4rebounding]

The "if true" to start the last paragraph and other "perhaps", plus the sensational way the article is written definitely makes you pause... But who knows, even though I really have a hard time believing Ime would force a willing HOU FO to renounce the trade. I mean like any coach he could be fired at the end of the season, or even before, if things are going bad (or he bangs another personal member). They may ask their coach's opinion, but that kind of trade is ultimately only validated (or not) by GMs and owners (Pop aside) if you ask me. Not to mention the fragile position Ime was before being hired by Houston. Not sure he would already have that kind of power.

It wasn’t a trade. It was a free agent signing. Houston had cap room. There was nothing to renounce. And Ime is seen as a savior of sorts in Houston. Especially during this “honeymoon” stage he may very well have some juice in regards to team construction.

[John B]

It doesn’t seem long ago when Harden forced his way out of Houston, deliberately playing lousy badketball and Houston would want him back??

[John B]

Kai Jones requested to be traded? :lol

I have officially requested to be traded from the Charlotte Hornets. #GOATLIFE Per his twitter

I don’t know how to paste those twitter

[buttsR4rebounding]

Kai Jones requested to be traded? :lol

I have officially requested to be traded from the Charlotte Hornets. #GOATLIFE Per his twitter

I don’t know how to paste those twitter

Might be worth a far out 2nd and hook him up with Primo’s shrink. What could go wrong?

[exstatic]

Kai Jones is one of the biggest nothingburgers in the NBA. He got drafted because he can jump high.

[Mr. Body]

Teams lining up to sign a guy who livestreams his tweaking episodes.

[John B]

Kai Jones is one of the biggest nothingburgers in the NBA. He got drafted because he can jump high.

I still remember some people here who were very high on Kai Jones

[Mr. Body]

Hornets had two picks that draft and wound up with Kai Jones and James Bouknight.

Granted that was a shitty draft, but holy hell

[Leetonidas]

Still can't believe TP ended his career with that garbage franchise

[scott]

Love the concept of a career 2.7ppg player requesting a trade. It's like a Key & Peele skit waiting to happen.

[Mr. Body]

Kevin Porter Jr. dumped on OKC in return for Victor Oladipo and Jeremiah Robinson-Earle. OKC get an additional two SRPs, immediately waive KPJ.

Not a bad pickup for Houston. JRE can be a rotation guy. For the Thunder, more draft picks, but we see the problem of 'churn': Pokasevski has been replaced by Ousmane Dieng, Isaiah Roby was replaced by JRE who was replaced by Jaylin Williams. Maybe those are upgrades, but it means assets that were burned.

[spurraider21]

i was supportive of the idea of the spurs trading for KPJ and immediately waiving him as well. two SRPs from a bad team

[spurraider21]

Kevin Porter Jr. dumped on OKC in return for Victor Oladipo and Jeremiah Robinson-Earle. OKC get an additional two SRPs, immediately waive KPJ.

Not a bad pickup for Houston. JRE can be a rotation guy. For the Thunder, more draft picks, but we see the problem of 'churn': Pokasevski has been replaced by Ousmane Dieng, Isaiah Roby was replaced by JRE who was replaced by Jaylin Williams. Maybe those are upgrades, but it means assets that were burned.
ir Roby was good, JRE wouldnt have replaced him. the spurs took a flier on him and he didnt last the season.

and if you have to let solid players go to make room for better players, thats what we call a good problem

[Mr. Body]

ir Roby was good, JRE wouldnt have replaced him the spurs took a flier on him and he didnt last the season.

and if you have to let solid players go to make room for better players, thats what we call a good problem

Sure, but it's the 'churn' that's the issue. OKC using draft assets to marginally improve their roster. A matter of time before Dieng gets replaced by a tall, lanky guy who is supposed to turn out and Jaylin Williams replaced by a guy who is just as good. Dieng might turn out but they could have had Mark Williams, Tari Eason, Walker Kessler, etc.

[spurraider21]

Sure, but it's the 'churn' that's the issue. OKC using draft assets to marginally improve their roster. A matter of time before Dieng gets replaced by a tall, lanky guy who is supposed to turn out and Jaylin Williams replaced by a guy who is just as good. Dieng might turn out but they could have had Mark Williams, Tari Eason, Walker Kessler, etc.
if Dieng pans out, then he wont be replaced. if they have enough guys pan out, thats when they'll probably start turning those picks into good vets to firm up the team.

[exstatic]

If Ouseman Dieng doesn't make it, that may be the biggest waste of 3 FRPs in history. Couldn't believe they traded them for a pick not even in the top 10.

[rankingtear]

If Ouseman Dieng doesn't make it, that may be the biggest waste of 3 FRPs in history. Couldn't believe they traded them for a pick not even in the top 10.

They did not even do it for Dieng. It is to secure the next guy they picked.

[Chinook]

It's far better to trade picks for a guy you like than hold them and be forced to use them on guys you don't. Yes, the Spurs will have to be willing to cut prospects. But they can't rely on finding a diamond in the rough

[Mr. Body]

They did not even do it for Dieng. It is to secure the next guy they picked.

They could have just picked the next guy they picked.

[CGD]

If Ouseman Dieng doesn't make it, that may be the biggest waste of 3 FRPs in history. Couldn't believe they traded them for a pick not even in the top 10.

Weren’t they BS FRPspicks though?

[spurraider21]

Weren’t they BS FRPspicks though?
one of them ended up being the #27 pick in the 2023 draft from denver. the other two are protected picks which have not conveyed yet

[Mr. Body]

Of course Dieng can certainly still pan out. He was always more of a project. The point is more that the Pokusevski experiment is more or less over.

[Atl Spur]

Of course Dieng can certainly still pan out. He was always more of a project. The point is more that the Pokusevski experiment is more or less over.

I’d take a flier on poku..js

[Dex]

OKC is taking all of our 2nd round picks :madrun

[rankingtear]

They could have just picked the next guy they picked.

That's dumb trades can be cancelled. That is why the confusing hats on draft night.

[CGD]

Of course Dieng can certainly still pan out. He was always more of a project. The point is more that the Pokusevski experiment is more or less over.

Dieng aside, that 2022 draft will turn out to be foundational for OKC. Two runner up ROYs in one draft.

[exstatic]

one of them ended up being the #27 pick in the 2023 draft from denver. the other two are protected picks which have not conveyed yet

That pick started as the selection for Jalen Duren. Charlotte flipped him to NY for the Denver pick and some future seconds, trading back to the late first round. NY then flipped Duren to Detroit. The other two OKC traded picks are from Detroit and Washington, the Detroit pick is protected 1-18,1-13,1-11,1-9 over the next 4 drafts. The Washington pick is protected 1-12,1-10,1-8 over the next 3 drafts.

[Atl Spur]

Dieng aside, that 2022 draft will turn out to be foundational for OKC. Two runner up ROYs in one draft.

Branham & Sohan might bare similar fruit when we look back:)

[spurraider21]

still cant believe OKC was forced to let go of such a talent like Roby because they have too many draft picks

1714750348206776420

[Russ]

Branham & Sohan might bare similar fruit when we look back:)

Not sure you really meant it that way . . .

[CorrectCrusader]

i was supportive of the idea of the spurs trading for KPJ and immediately waiving him as well. two SRPs from a bad team
The optics after the Primo situation would've have looked good

[spurraider21]

The optics after the Primo situation would've have looked good
yeah but if you simultaneously announce that he's being waived i think it nips that in the bud

[CGD]

For those who enjoy the capulator as much as I do, looks like the Spurs roster have FINALLY been updated.

https://www.shamsports.com/capulator

[scott]

Sure, but it's the 'churn' that's the issue. OKC using draft assets to marginally improve their roster. A matter of time before Dieng gets replaced by a tall, lanky guy who is supposed to turn out and Jaylin Williams replaced by a guy who is just as good. Dieng might turn out but they could have had Mark Williams, Tari Eason, Walker Kessler, etc.

It's one way to keep the roster cost of your role players down, I guess

[Chinook]

For those who enjoy the capulator as much as I do, looks like the Spurs roster have FINALLY been updated.

https://www.shamsports.com/capulator

Well kinda -- it doesn't have Vassell's contract. Also, I don't think it reflects the buyouts for Bullock or Payne. It has them waived. But if they were actually bought out, the Spurs might've saved quite a bit of money. Traditionally players give back the vet-min, but those mins have gotten so high, that those two salaries combine to be over $5 Million.

[SpursFan86]

Giannis signs 3 year/$186MM extension with the Bucks.

[spurraider21]

1716583521723027866

they should send Capela to memphis

[TD 21]

R. Williams makes more sense than Capela. Younger, cheaper and unlike the Hawks, who'd need a rotational C back, I doubt the Trail Blazers would care.

Media's wet dream of Antetokounmpo to (insert glamor marker) is basically officially dead.

[spurraider21]

R. Williams makes more sense than Capela. Younger, cheaper and unlike the Hawks, who'd need a rotational C back, I doubt the Trail Blazers would care.

Media's wet dream of Antetokounmpo to (insert glamor marker) is basically officially dead.
hawks are probably going to want to salary dump capela similar to how they did Collins. think capela could be had pretty cheap

really doubt the hawks are going to want both capela and okongwu on the roster at the same time when okongwu is off his rookie scale deal

[TD 21]

The Hawks are trying to balance winning now while cutting long term salary, so their motivation in a hypothetical Capela trade will be a combination of salary dump, draft capital and a rotational backup C for Okongwu.

The Grizzlies don't have an expendable rotational C to offer though and with their own bloated payroll going forward and the difficulty they'd have matching salary for Capela, I don't see it.

[spurraider21]

The Hawks are trying to balance winning now while cutting long term salary, so their motivation in a hypothetical Capela trade will be a combination of salary dump, draft capital and a rotational backup C for Okongwu.

The Grizzlies don't have an expendable rotational C to offer though and with their own bloated payroll going forward and the difficulty they'd have matching salary for Capela, I don't see it.
the salary matching is a fair point, not sure how memphis gets that done after taking a look

i dont think the hawks will get much for capela though, despite what their motivations might be. think it ends up close to the collins situation

[CGD]

hawks are probably going to want to salary dump capela similar to how they did Collins. think capela could be had pretty cheap

really doubt the hawks are going to want both capela and okongwu on the roster at the same time when okongwu is off his rookie scale deal

Maybe the Grizzlies assessment changes with the news today of Adams being out for the season. A Capella-Adams swap could make sense, but it’s hard to know where the Grizz will be once Morant returns.

[TD 21]

To be clear, by "draft capital", I'd say borderline 1st, as in late or maybe even multiple 2nds and "rotational C", the bar is as low as anyone better than Fernando.

[Dejounte]

IMO, don’t count on the Spurs landing a big time player through either free agency (obviously) or trade. Most of the ones who are available for trade are severely flawed: broken goods (Simmons), unpredictable (Irving, Harden), or prefer one destination (Lillard). I expect the Spurs to build inhouse from here on out and only attain good role players through those two avenues I mentioned.

[Bruno]

I find interesting that Immanuel Quickley hasn't been signed to an extension. It's understandable that Knicks haven't done it because they already have Jalen Brunson. Quickley will likely en up with another team, one way or another, in the coming year.

I think Spurs will look at first at the 2024 Draft to get their future starting PG but, if they don't find one, Quickley might be a decent fall back plan.

[mo7888]

I find interesting that Immanuel Quickley hasn't been signed to an extension. It's understandable that Knicks haven't done it because they already have Jalen Brunson. Quickley will likely en up with another team, one way or another, in the coming year.

I think Spurs will look at first at the 2024 Draft to get their future starting PG but, if they don't find one, Quickley might be a decent fall back plan.

I don't even think we'll give Quickley a look. We have shown we want length at that position.

[Mr. Body]

I think an extension would have made Quickley ineligible to be traded this season? Knicks are prowling around Embiid and maybe other places.

And I think IQ's team wants more of a bag, so weren't wanting an extension right now.

For the Spurs, I honestly don't know if he's better than Vassell. Dev is a year younger and I think will fully eclipse him this year. Mentioning because I don't think Quickley is really a point guard. He's more in the Massey/Simons mold where he's an undersize SG. Not that he/they can't run point, but that Quickley doesn't provide anything for the Spurs (at price point).

[Chinook]

I'm not a huge fan of Quickley, but he has his advocates. The Spurs could free up more than $30 Million in cap space depending on how aggressive they want to be about it (trading off guys like Graham, cutting non-guarantee contracts, getting off some of the pick holds). I think it's more likely they try to take salary for another year, though I imagine purely selling it for picks is over. Between Graham and Osman, they have the matching salary to bring in a decent vet.

[Chinook]

I think an extension would have made Quickley ineligible to be traded this season? Knicks are prowling around Embiid and maybe other places.

He wouldn't've been ineligible for a trade, but he would've been under the poison pill restriction that makes it hard to match salary. But a team that traded for him could've extended him immediately. If there was going to be incentive for a team to want Quickley locked in, that would have meant the trade would have been done before the deadline. Any team trading for him would still inherit his RFA rights next year, so I don't think him not being signed is going to hurt his chances of being dealt.

[BacktoBasics]

Quickley is not better than Vassell. He's definitely not the answer at PG and unless you move Branham I don't see the logic. I also prefer Branham over him... at least for now.

[R. DeMurre]

I love Quickley, and think he's one of the best under the radar guys in the league. He played 81 games last year, starting 21, and here are his stats as a starter:

22.6 ppg
5.4 rpg
5.1 apg
.401 3pt%
.605 TS%

His on court/off court numbers are in the Ginobili category, hugely in the positive for all three of his years with the Knicks, despite a constantly changing roster and dozens of different line ups. I think he has proven at this point that he's a big time positive team influence.

+/- per 100 poss
On court/ on-off

2021: +6.8/+6.6
2022: +7.9/ +13.8
2023: +6.7/ +8.6

It's so rare to see #s like that for players that aren't all stars/ all NBA types. At 6'3", he's undersized for a SG, but I like him at PG, where his size is fine. The line ups with him & Brunson together were among the most successful combos that the Knicks posted last season, despite being an undersized duo-- but again, I like him at PG, not SG. And he's still only 24 years old.

[buttsR4rebounding]

I love Quickley, and think he's one of the best under the radar guys in the league. He played 81 games last year, starting 21, and here are his stats as a starter:

22.6 ppg
5.4 rpg
5.1 apg
.401 3pt%
.605 TS%

His on court/off court numbers are in the Ginobili category, hugely in the positive for all three of his years with the Knicks, despite a constantly changing roster and dozens of different line ups. I think he has proven at this point that he's a big time positive team influence.

+/- per 100 poss
On court/ on-off

2021: +6.8/+6.6
2022: +7.9/ +13.8
2023: +6.7/ +8.6

It's so rare to see #s like that for players that aren't all stars/ all NBA types. At 6'3", he's undersized for a SG, but I like him at PG, where his size is fine. The line ups with him & Brunson together were among the most successful combos that the Knicks posted last season, despite being an undersized duo-- but again, I like him at PG, not SG. And he's still only 24 years old.

I am an IQ fan as well. Brunson really makes it tough for the Knicks to give him what he wants.

[R. DeMurre]

I am an IQ fan as well. Brunson really makes it tough for the Knicks to give him what he wants.


Yeah, agreed... he seems destined to move on from a team with like 7 rotation guys that are 6'5" or smaller.

[TD 21]

I don't even think we'll give Quickley a look. We have shown we want length at that position.

Yeah, as I said ad nauseam this off season (don't tempt me, Chinook), if they wanted to, they had (and have) the assets to minimally make the Knicks give strong consideration to trading him.

My sense is the only way starting PG X becomes a small guard, is if they're a superstar or star offensively. Anything less and it'll be someone in the mold of Murray, White or Primo.

[Fizziksman]

IMO, don’t count on the Spurs landing a big time player through either free agency (obviously) or trade. Most of the ones who are available for trade are severely flawed: broken goods (Simmons), unpredictable (Irving, Harden), or prefer one destination (Lillard). I expect the Spurs to build inhouse from here on out and only attain good role players through those two avenues I mentioned.

pretty much all the good players that we would want are two to three years away from being FAs or their teams seeking compensation in trades.