The Irregular Trebuchet of Stephon Castle

[TD 21]

i don't get it, do you really plan on putting castle on lebron/donut/nephew/george?

Sochan should remain the primary defender on the overpowering types, like the first three you mentioned.


You mean becoming? Potentially I'm not sure.

SGA wasn't THAT impressive when he came into the league

It's all about work, dedication, environment etc

I'm going to go out on a limb and say Castle won't become a top five player in the league and if anyone thought there was so much as a miniscule chance of that, he'd have been the undisputed #1 pick in the draft.

You're missing the point, which is that Gilgeous-Alexander was more proven then (2nd season) than Castle is now, primarily played off the ball with the exact same player (Paul) and it not only didn't stunt his development, but arguably played a part in propelling him to unforeseen heights.

[Dejounte]

Sochan should remain the primary defender on the overpowering types, like the first three you mentioned.



I'm going to go out on a limb and say Castle won't become a top five player in the league and if anyone thought there was so much as a miniscule chance of that, he'd have been the undisputed #1 pick in the draft.

You're missing the point, which is that Gilgeous-Alexander was more proven then (2nd season) than Castle is now, primarily played off the ball with the exact same player (Paul) and it not only didn't stunt his development, but arguably played a part in propelling him to unforeseen heights.

No one thought SGA had a chance to become SGA during pre-draft time… he was the 11th pick. And the Clippers didn’t know he would become a top 5 player when that trade was made either.

[Spurs Homer]

No idea why most of you (in diff threads) put him at the 2 or 3.

To me he needs to learn from the start the PG position and use as (potentially) little time he'll have with CP3.

Not only that's clealy what he wants but he can become better defensive version of SGA

Let's not waste time moving him aound bc he's a rookie

this

ive been saying the exact same thing….

id start paul and insert castle at the 6 min mark of the 1st qtr- same as was done with wemby last year - is how paul should be used…
to save paul from injury and keep him healthy in the event of a playoff or play in …

castle could come in and implement exactly what paul has coached him to do…

win-win

save pauls legs/body and train the youngster

[TD 21]

No one thought SGA had a chance to become SGA during pre-draft time… he was the 11th pick. And the Clippers didn’t know he would become a top 5 player when that trade was made either.

I know, but he was thought to have possible All-Star upside going into and certainly after his rookie season.

Castle is a different type of player (worse offense, better defense). Even in a world where he shatters expectations, I would think Butler (All-NBA caliber) is more so the ceiling than MVP caliber.

[Pauleta14]

I know, but he was thought to have possible All-Star upside going into and certainly after his rookie season.

Castle is a different type of player (worse offense, better defense). Even in a world where he shatters expectations, I would think Butler (All-NBA caliber) is more so the ceiling than MVP caliber.

You're just speculating

Castle had to adapt his offensive game bc of the team and system he was in. He showed a great offensive game at highschool level and I don't see any particular weakness technically.

I don't like the comparison many of you make with Butler, I get the defensive attitude but Butler was A LOT more raw out of college

Castle is going to be Castle, let's at least wait the end of his rookie season to compare him with SGA at the end of his...

I can see some stuff of Kawhi in him as well, " emotionally cold" (not sociopathically like Nephew) and determined. I wish we'd still have Chip Engeland but at least he'll have Cp3'.

No one can predict what type of player he'll become but there are plenty of arguments that he could very well reach SGA's level and more.

For all the shit I/we give PATFO, they're the best in the business at developping players. Better than Okc imo

[Mr. Body]

Super pumped for Castle.

The only reason I've mentioned a Butler comp is how they move and use their strength to advantage.

It's one thing Castle will need to tweak. He's good at bumping guys off their paths and getting into their space, but even in college he'd get called for this. If he can manage to get that balance right -- in a league that calls anything in favor of the offense -- this could be a huge key. There were times in college it worked extremely well, times he was too aggressive.

[scott]

1809388653249994804

[offset formation]

this

ive been saying the exact same thing….

id start paul and insert castle at the 6 min mark of the 1st qtr- same as was done with wemby last year - is how paul should be used…
to save paul from injury and keep him healthy in the event of a playoff or play in …

castle could come in and implement exactly what paul has coached him to do…

win-win

save pauls legs/body and train the youngster

This is absolutely going to be the case.

[J_Paco]

This is absolutely going to be the case.

There is no chance the 4th overall pick comes off the bench in favor of Keldon Johnson or Julian Champagnie.

He'll start alongside Vassell and Paul, while possibly getting some 'lead guard' minutes here and there.

[TDMVPDPOY]

more minutes = speed up the learning curve

no point playing from the bench and have ur stung growth as a player...

look at them teams like okc, pacers who give their rookies starters minutes... they good at developing rookies

[John B]

1809388653249994804

Looks like great form to me. The only thing that sent him to 4th was his shooting. Castle could turn out to be the top of this class.

[Mr. Body]

Looks like great form to me. The only thing that sent him to 4th was his shooting. Castle could turn out to be the top of this class.

He should have gone #1 anyway. Everyone overthought it and fucked up. Like Atlanta -- they traded Murray after. Wouldn't they love to have Castle now?

[NASpurs]

Please don't misuse this guy and please start him day 1. He doesn't need to get over himself and all that kind of shit.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvhwPEfVQP4

[Russ]

Looks like great form to me. The only thing that sent him to 4th was his shooting. Castle could turn out to be the top of this class.

Both the NBATV and ESPN draft "experts" ad nauseum repeated that Castle was the No. 1 prospect in this class.

If he can shoot, the Spurs could have a #2 in a future top 3.

[CGD]

Matas Buzelis called him the best prospect in their class on JJ Redicks show:

https://x.com/DuvaltoDMV/status/1674090992524222466

[Mr. Body]

Please don't misuse this guy and please start him day 1. He doesn't need to get over himself and all that kind of shit.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvhwPEfVQP4

I was talking about this earlier, where Castle uses his upper chest or shoulders to bump guys, like at

2:45 He forces the guy off where he wants to go into the lane
3:08 He doesn't here, but just an example of how strong he is, walled up and the guy can't budge him
3:14 See how he's riding the guy a bit? He's pushing him very subtly and the guy isn't strong enough to go the direction he wants
4:12 A great example of a bump that might get called in the NBA. That's just not allowed esp against certain players. I think he'll learn how to use it better, but he'll pick up fouls

But I love how he does this, super smart stuff for a freshman. He rarely reaches, is very patient, and he's so strong for his size and position. We'll definitely see how he'll need to work out those subtle bumps and guiding as we go

[Mr. Body]

Those bumps and grinds have to be really wearing for perimeter players. He wears them down over the course of a game having to work to get to their spots. It saps the energy.

[RC_Drunkford]

I think it was pretty clear from the beginning that Castle is by far the most complete player in this draft, with the only question being his shooting. I'm pretty confident he can shoot 33+ % from the 3-point line this season. If that's the case him starting with Sochan would bring no spacing issues at all. There's plenty of tape where he's making deep 3s from far out the 3-point line as well.

[Raven]

There is no chance the 4th overall pick comes off the bench in favor of Keldon Johnson or Julian Champagnie.

He'll start alongside Vassell and Paul, while possibly getting some 'lead guard' minutes here and there.

i find that to be so unlikely, it is almost unbelievable. Only chance this happens is that he shows up and is a .400 3 point shooter from the word go.

[Obstructed_View]

i find that to be so unlikely, it is almost unbelievable. Only chance this happens is that he shows up and is a .400 3 point shooter from the word go.
Yeah, but some guys you just throw in the deep end of the pool. I'd have never thought the Spurs would start Parker and let AJ go.

[heyheymymy]

Matas Buzelis called him the best prospect in their class on JJ Redicks show:

https://x.com/DuvaltoDMV/status/1674090992524222466

lol JJ is listening to his future as a Lakers coach getting wrecked by Castle

[ace3g]

Via Shams

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GR1DBRjXMAAmN91?format=jpg&name=large

[timvp]

Castle's odds plummeting. Huerter incoming?

:stirpot:

[baseline bum]

Yeah, but some guys you just throw in the deep end of the pool. I'd have never thought the Spurs would start Parker and let AJ go.

Antonio Daniels was just that bad at point :lol

[Pauleta14]

The disrespect already for Castle?

I LOVE IT

[Ariel]

Via Shams

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GR1DBRjXMAAmN91?format=jpg&name=large
I like Clingan at those odds.

[scott]

Edey has gotten expensive. Vegas reading ST.com tbh

[Obstructed_View]

Antonio Daniels was just that bad at point :lol
Yeah he was. I loved AD but he was an undersized 2.

[TD 21]

You're just speculating

No one can predict what type of player he'll become but there are plenty of arguments that he could very well reach SGA's level and more.

For all the shit I/we give PATFO, they're the best in the business at developping players. Better than Okc imo

So are you.

Of course it's not impossible, but there's no credible argument for thinking there's a decent or better chance currently. A portion of this fan base is just delusional and thinks virtually every 1st round pick is destined for stardom mostly due to three players drafted 13-25 years ago.

The luxury they have is job security, so they can afford to select projects and be patient.

[Pauleta14]

So are you.

Of course it's not impossible, but there's no credible argument for thinking there's a decent or better chance currently. A portion of this fan base is just delusional and thinks virtually every 1st round pick is destined for stardom mostly due to three players drafted 13-25 years ago.

The luxury they have is job security, so they can afford to select projects and be patient.

I'm saying anything is possible, you're saying one option is impossible...

https://x.com/JMcDonald_SAEN/status/1809728155525296288

Anyway he's not starting as PG position, interesting...

[TD 21]

I'm saying anything is possible, you're saying one option is impossible...

https://x.com/JMcDonald_SAEN/status/1809728155525296288

Anyway he's not starting as PG position, interesting...

I know and I'm saying that could be applied to anything, but that's not the same as saying there's good reason to think and I clearly didn't say impossible.

[Pauleta14]

I know and I'm saying that could be applied to anything, but that's not the same as saying there's good reason to think and I clearly didn't say impossible.

Look I'm not trying to have the last word, we can agree to disagree but there is a rational and good reason to think he could end up as good o better than SGA when comparing both players at the same stage/age.

We'll see

[Obstructed_View]

Look I'm not trying to have the last word, we can agree to disagree but there is a rational and good reason to think he could end up as good o better than SGA when comparing both players at the same stage/age.

We'll see
You guys are talking past each other. Yes, he could be that good, but without a time machine you don't know. All things are true.

[scott]

Castle could become as good as SGA.

Risacher could become as good as Lauri Markkanen.

Dillingham could become as good as Trae Young.

Sheppard could become as good as Steph Curry.

Salaun could become as good as Giannis.

Any of these things could happen. But they probably won’t, and I’m not holding my breath on any of those possibilities. These are the 99th percentile outcomes of these players… I mean, c’mon.

[DAF86]

Uso-GPAobb8?si=uD-067XRhYKcdVPT

[Ice009]

The disrespect already for Castle?

I LOVE IT

Wow, Matas Buzelis, the same odds as Castle. The same guy that said Castle might be the best player of this draft class.

[Raven]

The disrespect already for Castle?

I LOVE IT

the odds are actually quite unrealistically high..

[Pauleta14]

Wow, Matas Buzelis, the same odds as Castle. The same guy that said Castle might be the best player of this draft class.


the odds are actually quite unrealistically high..

Anything that could give Stephon an edge, I'm taking it.

[Mr. Body]

Wow, Matas Buzelis, the same odds as Castle. The same guy that said Castle might be the best player of this draft class.

ROY this year will come down to numbers. If someone scores 15ppg or so they'll be on track. Brogdan won with pretty low average as a rookie.

[exstatic]

Antonio Daniels was just that bad at point :lol

Yeah, and even so, it took 5-6 games for Parker to dislodge him. CP3 will not be terrible.

[BatManu20]

Not sure if posted already but pretty wild tbh.

1808016911395180669

[exstatic]

Not sure if posted already but pretty wild tbh.

1808016911395180669

Posted several times over the last week.

[Mr. Body]

Not sure if posted already but pretty wild tbh.

1808016911395180669

I had no idea the actor Marc Blucas played college basketball, much less with Duncan. He was in Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

[BatManu20]

I had no idea the actor Marc Blucas played college basketball, much less with Duncan. He was in Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

Holy shit you're right. Didn't even recognize him tbh. That's crazy :lol

[Ice009]

I had no idea the actor Marc Blucas played college basketball, much less with Duncan. He was in Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

I didn't recognize him either when seeing this photo the past week until you pointed it out ;). I did know he was friends with TD. I can't quite remember if they were also roommates. I also read and saw photos with TD going to some of his movie premieres when Tim was still playing for the Spurs.

[ace3g]

Blucas even mentions Duncan in one of his movies.

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/xeghtm


https://www.dailymotion.com/video/xeghtm

[DAF86]

Blucas even mentions Duncan in one of his movies.

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/xeghtm


https://www.dailymotion.com/video/xeghtm

"Unless they figure out how to play the guy. He's 7 foot and the guy wants to play like a guard".

That sounds oddly relevant nowadays for some reason :wakeup

[scott]

Wow, Matas Buzelis, the same odds as Castle. The same guy that said Castle might be the best player of this draft class.

Castle won't win ROY as a bench player, which is what folks seem to expect. Some lesser player with a bigger role will win it.

[Ice009]

Castle won't win ROY as a bench player, which is what folks seem to expect. Some lesser player with a bigger role will win it.

Yeah, you're probably right. I guess I don't really care as long as Castle keeps developing and becomes the player he can be potentially, that'd be even better.

[ace3g]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OkxY3WfJOg

[BackHome]

Love the kid him saying “All I Do Is Hoop” tells me that he is committed to basketball and will work hard on improving every year. In the NBA everyone has talent the difference is the ones who love the game and willing to put in the long hours in the lab to get better

[DAF86]

If Castle does end up being the PG of the future, then he might be able to get by without having a reliable 3 pt shot if he manages to develop a pull-up mid-range jumper ala Tony Parker.

[ace3g]

https://x.com/cameronsalerno1/status/1810875602209325111

[barakz21]

If Castle does end up being the PG of the future, then he might be able to get by without having a reliable 3 pt shot if he manages to develop a pull-up mid-range jumper ala Tony Parker.

Yeesh. That’s gonna be nasty. TP for a while sucked shooting. Courtesy of Chip, he became a midrange maestro where him shooting pull-ups was an automatic 2. And of course as he got older, he started taking more 3s. I do still remember him being a sub-30% 3pt shooter before Chip came along and his % only improved because he cut down on his attempts.

[Chinook]

If Castle does end up being the PG of the future, then he might be able to get by without having a reliable 3 pt shot if he manages to develop a pull-up mid-range jumper ala Tony Parker.

A pull-up is a change-of-pace move. Castle's ability to work on the court is going to depend on him being able to exude gravity. For most players nowadays, it comes from shooting, but it can also come from being a relentless downhill scorer. Ideally, it comes from both. A pull-up is a way to extend that gravity in that a defender can't play off or just run them off the line. Having a pull-up game without a three-point shot only helps if he becomes the type of PG who bends a defense with his driving, ala Tony Parker. We saw some glimpses of that tonight, but I still don't know what "star" castle would even look like offensively. Then again, I couldn't've told you what star Siakam would look like either. Sometimes things just happen. I need to see more of him to really understand. Hopefully he's able to play a lot in Vegas and doesn't get pulled early because "he has nothing to prove".

[Seventyniner]

A pull-up is a change-of-pace move. Castle's ability to work on the court is going to depend on him being able to exude gravity. For most players nowadays, it comes from shooting, but it can also come from being a relentless downhill scorer. Ideally, it comes from both. A pull-up is a way to extend that gravity in that a defender can't play off or just run them off the line. Having a pull-up game without a three-point shot only helps if he becomes the type of PG who bends a defense with his driving, ala Tony Parker. We saw some glimpses of that tonight, but I still don't know what "star" castle would even look like offensively. Then again, I couldn't've told you what star Siakam would look like either. Sometimes things just happen. I need to see more of him to really understand. Hopefully he's able to play a lot in Vegas and doesn't get pulled early because "he has nothing to prove".

If Castle plays so well in his first 2 Vegas games that he gets sent back to SA, I wouldn't consider that a bad thing. Though he does need a lot more reps than someone like Wemby.

Number Two is a good template for someone who didn't appear to have a path to superstardom early in his career but willed his way into it anyway. Since his path was so rare nobody can say that Castle following a similar path is likely, but hope is what sells tickets and jerseys. And what keeps us talking here.

[Chinook]

If Castle plays so well in his first 2 Vegas games that he gets sent back to SA, I wouldn't consider that a bad thing. Though he does need a lot more reps than someone like Wemby.

Number Two is a good template for someone who didn't appear to have a path to superstardom early in his career but willed his way into it anyway. Since his path was so rare nobody can say that Castle following a similar path is likely, but hope is what sells tickets and jerseys. And what keeps us talking here.

I don't disagree about the Kawhi example. It's one of the things I use to counteract the idea that teams in need of stars should avoid "high-floor" prospects in favor of boom-or-bust players. While I think Kawhi's ultimate stardom and rate of growth were shocking, he always had the tools to get there. His jumper coming along where he went from non-shooter to corner-shooter, to three-point shooter, to finally tough-two-off-the-dribble shooter was amazing and rare. Maybe Castle can have a similar curve. But Kawhi also had his absurd strength and wingspan. That's what gave him such a high floor, but it was also his pathway toward stardom. Basically teams couldn't stop Leonard from scoring any more than they could stop him from rebounding. Dude was just superlative close to the rim. Add in a knock-down jumper, and he became unguardable. I think Castle is considered a buttershot, but I'm not sure if his inside game is really at the level where he's only a jumper away from a star path. That's not because I've seen him so much and have rendered my judgment. I fully admit I haven't seen a ton of footage on him. That's why I wonder what an actualized offensive Castle would even look like. Are we talking about a downhill wrecking ball like Parker or Westbrook or a deliberate wing scorer like Kawhi or DeRozan?

[onechance87]

would like to see him push the pace a bit...Kinda want to see how he handles the ball and playmakes playing fast.

[MannyIsGod]

I will say in the limited minutes I've seen Castle so far he does have a feel for the game that only Wemby from our recent draft picks can surpass. That's a nice underrated aspect of drafting him.

[ace3g]

https://x.com/cameronsalerno1/status/1811098627630322070

[Pauleta14]

Honestly I don't see Castle becoming an allstar at all, I see him becoming an elite and reliable role player. And I'm fine with it. Those are so underrated and hard to find.

He doesn't have the offensive game or mentality to take over and be the go to guy imo. TP9 was obsessed with scoring, it was in him. Stephon is very different

[DPG21920]

With regards to offensive star, do we think Jrue is an offensive star? I think hes more in that mold than what I would say an offensive engine would be. To me that’s Wemby + Dev, but Castle does enough all around to be a legit third guy on a winning team offensively (and defensively).

[spurraider21]

I don't disagree about the Kawhi example. It's one of the things I use to counteract the idea that teams in need of stars should avoid "high-floor" prospects in favor of boom-or-bust players. While I think Kawhi's ultimate stardom and rate of growth were shocking, he always had the tools to get there. His jumper coming along where he went from non-shooter to corner-shooter, to three-point shooter, to finally tough-two-off-the-dribble shooter was amazing and rare. Maybe Castle can have a similar curve. But Kawhi also had his absurd strength and wingspan. That's what gave him such a high floor, but it was also his pathway toward stardom. Basically teams couldn't stop Leonard from scoring any more than they could stop him from rebounding. Dude was just superlative close to the rim. Add in a knock-down jumper, and he became unguardable. I think Castle is considered a buttershot, but I'm not sure if his inside game is really at the level where he's only a jumper away from a star path. That's not because I've seen him so much and have rendered my judgment. I fully admit I haven't seen a ton of footage on him. That's why I wonder what an actualized offensive Castle would even look like. Are we talking about a downhill wrecking ball like Parker or Westbrook or a deliberate wing scorer like Kawhi or DeRozan?
i think he's somewhere in between like a butler. even jimmy never became a great three point shooter. just a "good enough" shooter

[Mugen]

Honestly I don't see Castle becoming an allstar at all, I see him becoming an elite and reliable role player. And I'm fine with it. Those are so underrated and hard to find.

He doesn't have the offensive game or mentality to take over and be the go to guy imo. TP9 was obsessed with scoring, it was in him. Stephon is very different

Not even close to enough sample size/evidence to confidently make this claim tbh.

[TheChillFactor]

the way he moves reminds me of a slightly bigger dwyane wade. i'm not saying he will become the player Wade was.

[DPG21920]

Oppposite for me lol. Wade was such a strong athlete. Castle reminds me more of how Paul Pierce moved and was effective. Just good control, pace and uses strength to get to spots etc…

[Mr. Body]

Honestly I don't see Castle becoming an allstar at all, I see him becoming an elite and reliable role player. And I'm fine with it. Those are so underrated and hard to find.

He doesn't have the offensive game or mentality to take over and be the go to guy imo. TP9 was obsessed with scoring, it was in him. Stephon is very different

Who cares? There are a lot of players who get All-Star for putting up big numbers on crappy teams but can't pass or defend a lick.

[DPG21920]

I think the Jrue comp looks pretty apt best case which is a great thing.

[exstatic]

I think the Jrue comp looks pretty apt best case which is a great thing.

Yeah, but bigger. Castle is taller and heavier.

[spurraider21]

same comp is why i liked anthony black a lot last year

he didnt have much of a role on a playoff team as a rookie but at least his 3pt shot was respectable

[Pauleta14]

Not even close to enough sample size/evidence to confidently make this claim tbh.

I think being a scorer is a very unique mentality/profile. Those players almost have a indiv sport mentality, they need to force themselves into trusting others and share the ball.

It's not a criticism on Castle, I actually think he has a lot more to bring bb wise than TP as a rookie for ex.

I know he was more offensive in highschool but even the best defensive specialists of all time were the go to guys in highschool.

There's still the SGA path but he won't have the same usage and opportunities than SGA hadat the start of his career bc Wemby is ready to take over the league

The Jrue Holiday profile basically (which is great)

[MannyIsGod]

With regards to offensive star, do we think Jrue is an offensive star? I think hes more in that mold than what I would say an offensive engine would be. To me that’s Wemby + Dev, but Castle does enough all around to be a legit third guy on a winning team offensively (and defensively).

I do consider Jrue more of an elite role player, and if Castle becomes that I would be extatic.

[DPG21920]

I do consider Jrue more of an elite role player, and if Castle becomes that I would be extatic.

Ya - it’s all about how one measures a star. Guys like Jrue and especially Derrick aren’t considered stars, but they win games.

[MannyIsGod]

Who cares? There are a lot of players who get All-Star for putting up big numbers on crappy teams but can't pass or defend a lick.

We should all be given a buzzer to send you a shock when you're being an unnecessary asshole for no reason. Why say who cares? Just make your point without being an insufferable fuck.

[Pauleta14]

Who cares? There are a lot of players who get All-Star for putting up big numbers on crappy teams but can't pass or defend a lick.

You're missing the point

I wasn't criticising him nor giving any value at being an allstar other than it's a popularity selection mainly based on offensives performances and being in the west it might be tough for Castle to get many selections.

My point was just that I'd be very happy if Castle developps into an elite role player rather than a go to guy.

[Extra Stout]

We should all be given a buzzer to send you a shock when you're being an unnecessary asshole for no reason. Why say who cares? Just make your point without being an insufferable fuck.
I don’t agree. The Texas electric grid is already shaky.

[LeBowen]

I do consider Jrue more of an elite role player, and if Castle becomes that I would be extatic.

Jrue isn't an all-star right now, but definitely was some years ago.
His best season was with that Rondo, Mirotic, AD, Cousins Pelicans.
He destroyed Lillard in the first round, worth a watch.

As for Castle, as I wrote some days ago, maybe it would be better if he becomes a Derrick level player and not an all-star.
Why? Because of CBA.
We don't want three max deals on the payroll. Assuming we get another all-star as Wemby's running mate, Castle or Devin developing into max contract players would mean at least one of them eventually has to go.

[Mr. Body]

We should all be given a buzzer to send you a shock when you're being an unnecessary asshole for no reason. Why say who cares? Just make your point without being an insufferable fuck.

Lol look at Mr Touchy. What soft pathetic nerve did I touch this time, you dumb baby?

[Mr. Body]

Jrue isn't an all-star right now, but definitely was some years ago.
His best season was with that Rondo, Mirotic, AD, Cousins Pelicans.
He destroyed Lillard in the first round, worth a watch.

As for Castle, as I wrote some days ago, maybe it would be better if he becomes a Derrick level player and not an all-star.
Why? Because of CBA.
We don't want three max deals on the payroll. Assuming we get another all-star as Wemby's running mate, Castle or Devin developing into max contract players would mean at least one of them eventually has to go.

It would be awesome if Castle got it, but the All Star game is like the Oscars. The league has managed to get five Lakers in at one time. The same league that never gave a Duncan a DPOY. Their treatment of us will never change.

[exstatic]

Lol look at Mr Touchy. What soft pathetic nerve did I touch this time, you dumb baby?

BZZZZZZT!!!

[TD 21]

Ya - it’s all about how one measures a star. Guys like Jrue and especially Derrick aren’t considered stars, but they win games.

I'd classify them as complementary stars. Since they can't be offensive centerpieces, but they have star like impact, that's a fair compromise.

This archetype is much more valuable than what I'd classify as pseudo stars. As in, offensive centerpieces who lack star like impact (Ingram, DeFrozen, etc.).

[Seventyniner]

Jrue isn't an all-star right now, but definitely was some years ago.
His best season was with that Rondo, Mirotic, AD, Cousins Pelicans.
He destroyed Lillard in the first round, worth a watch.

As for Castle, as I wrote some days ago, maybe it would be better if he becomes a Derrick level player and not an all-star.
Why? Because of CBA.
We don't want three max deals on the payroll. Assuming we get another all-star as Wemby's running mate, Castle or Devin developing into max contract players would mean at least one of them eventually has to go.

The new CBA allows a team to comfortably carry two max contracts. If Castle turns into a star worthy of a max that can only be good for the Spurs. Even if the Spurs manage to draft another great player, they can get a lot in return for trading away that player or Castle later on.

The Thunder won't be able to keep both Holmgren and Williams in a few years, but they will still have suitors lining up for whichever one they decide to let go.

[exstatic]

The new CBA allows a team to comfortably carry two max contracts. If Castle turns into a star worthy of a max that can only be good for the Spurs. Even if the Spurs manage to draft another great player, they can get a lot in return for trading away that player or Castle later on.

The Thunder won't be able to keep both Holmgren and Williams in a few years, but they will still have suitors lining up for whichever one they decide to let go.

I think that the new order, until there is another seismic change to the CBA will be to cycle through your 3 and 4 players, flipping them for draft picks when the get too expensive.

[Mitch Cumsteen]

I think being a scorer is a very unique mentality/profile. Those players almost have a indiv sport mentality, they need to force themselves into trusting others and share the ball.

It's not a criticism on Castle, I actually think he has a lot more to bring bb wise than TP as a rookie for ex.

I know he was more offensive in highschool but even the best defensive specialists of all time were the go to guys in highschool.

There's still the SGA path but he won't have the same usage and opportunities than SGA hadat the start of his career bc Wemby is ready to take over the league

The Jrue Holiday profile basically (which is great)

When I was watching Castle's high school tape, it gave me some SGA vibes. Castle has some of that funky, herkie jerky, post you up, inside out, one-on-one game to him. Castle doesn't have near the touch or range, or even the wingspan, but that's the best comp I can think of. Not predicting he ever gets close to that level, but I firmly believe that he's going to be able to create for himself off the dribble on the regular.

[exstatic]

The new CBA allows a team to comfortably carry two max contracts. If Castle turns into a star worthy of a max that can only be good for the Spurs. Even if the Spurs manage to draft another great player, they can get a lot in return for trading away that player or Castle later on.

The Thunder won't be able to keep both Holmgren and Williams in a few years, but they will still have suitors lining up for whichever one they decide to let go.

If they try to keep SGA, Holmgren, and Williams, they’ll have to gut the roster, and won’t go anywhere past the first round. I’d be happy to take Cason Wallace off their hands. You can never have too many versatile two way guards.

Personally, I think they’ll offload Williams if they break up the 3. He’s a more common archetype than Chet.

[LeBowen]

The new CBA allows a team to comfortably carry two max contracts. If Castle turns into a star worthy of a max that can only be good for the Spurs.

Would be good if it's just Wemby on max deal. But if both Devin and Castle get to max level players, someone will probably have to go. Not to mention if we get an all-star in a trade before it happens.


Even if the Spurs manage to draft another great player, they can get a lot in return for trading away that player or Castle later on.

The thing is that you can't win every trade.
Trading away all-stars for elite role players doesn't always work out and expecting rookies to fit right in during Wemby's prime wouldn't end well.
That's why Markkanen would also make sense.

Max him until he's 32, then he either takes a paycut or goes.
Then Devin and Castle are up for extensions and unless they're both max players, we're still good.

But if we get an all-star who's on Devin/Castle extension timeline and is still in his prime, someone has to go.

I'd rather have Devin and Castle as our Jrue/Derrick duo or one of them becoming a max player than have both as max players.
Because if they're both max players, one eventually has to go. Yeah, we'd be good short term before the extension, but eventually we lose out.

Still years away, but as I said, another reason why Markkanen makes sense.
People expecting Spurs to trade for a ~23 year old all-star would be in for a rude awakening when everyone's up for an extension.

[KobesAchilles]

Dude will be at 30% from 3 his rookie year
And then hover at 33% for the next 4 years and I will hear people say well if he just improves it a little bit. For like the next 6 years I’m gonna hear people arguing that Castle is young and will learn how to shoot. And he never will.

[LeBowen]

Dude will be at 30% from 3 his rookie year
And then hover at 33% for the next 4 years and I will hear people say well if he just improves it a little bit. For like the next 6 years I’m gonna hear people arguing that Castle is young and will learn how to shoot. And he never will.

Derrick was at 34% on 3.7 attempts in his first 6 seasons.
39% on 5.7 attempts in two full seasons with the Celtics.

Fox was at 32% on 3.8 attempts in his first 6 seasons.
37% on 7.8 attempts this year.

It's never too late and everyone has a different development trajectory.
Castle's biggest advantage will be that he looks like he'll be great in every other aspect of the game within two years, with just shooting left to focus on.

But then again, you said you're all in for tanking today, why am I even bothering. Imagine thinking a team with Wemby can outtank 8 teams that will lose games on purpose.

[RC_Drunkford]

Can‘t wait for the Castle vs. Vassell threads to start :lol

[z0sa]

Really really liked Castle's interview with CBS. He speaks like a veteran already in his answers and doesn't want any drama. I don't see why people would think he's stupid or want to compare him to Kawhi - he seems very smart to me and not at all autistic, just a quiet kind of dude. At least concerning basketball, he's got a great head on his shoulders -- and since that's his job, good on him.

[Seventyniner]

The thing is that you can't win every trade.
Trading away all-stars for elite role players doesn't always work out and expecting rookies to fit right in during Wemby's prime wouldn't end well.
That's why Markkanen would also make sense.

That's not really what I meant. It's not about winning each trade, it's that stockpiling more assets by trading away excess stars is better than not having excess stars to begin with. Once the Thunder are forced to break up their SGA/Holmgren/Williams core, unless the owners decide to take a couple seasons above the second apron (doubtful since even big market teams like the Clippers refuse to do so), they will be able to get a good return for the one they let go (probably Williams) and add to their war chest.

As such, Castle being good enough to warrant a max contract would be a win for the Spurs whether they hold on to him or not.

If Castle turns out to be a Franz Wagner level player and demands a max anyway it's a different story. At that point I think the Spurs should trade him, though the incoming haul would be less than if he were to be a true star.

[DR_Admiral]

It's going to be such a bonus having a point guard that's 6'6 and can defend 1-3. The Spurs have the potential to be a defensive beast of a team assuming they round out the roster with good defensive players.

[DAF86]

If this guy doesn't pan out, I want 2 things:

1) Spurstalk to never get a hard-on for a guard that can't shoot ever again. You know who you are, motherfuckers.

2) For PATFO to do the same fucking thing. Just give it a rest with the non-shooting prospects for a couple of seasons.

[LeBowen]

That's not really what I meant. It's not about winning each trade, it's that stockpiling more assets by trading away excess stars is better than not having excess stars to begin with. Once the Thunder are forced to break up their SGA/Holmgren/Williams core, unless the owners decide to take a couple seasons above the second apron (doubtful since even big market teams like the Clippers refuse to do so), they will be able to get a good return for the one they let go (probably Williams) and add to their war chest.

The return is good, but never good enough if you have to break up your core.


As such, Castle being good enough to warrant a max contract would be a win for the Spurs whether they hold on to him or not.

If Castle turns out to be a Franz Wagner level player and demands a max anyway it's a different story. At that point I think the Spurs should trade him, though the incoming haul would be less than if he were to be a true star.



Everyone who's eligible wants a max deal these days.
Unless Castle is one of those few guys who would take a paycut.
Whataboutism right now, but will be interesting to see how things unfold.

[spurraider21]

Can‘t wait for the Castle vs. Vassell threads to start :lol
if we get to the point where castle is good enough to justify those threads, id be pretty happy

[KobesAchilles]

Derrick was at 34% on 3.7 attempts in his first 6 seasons.
39% on 5.7 attempts in two full seasons with the Celtics.

Fox was at 32% on 3.8 attempts in his first 6 seasons.
37% on 7.8 attempts this year.

It's never too late and everyone has a different development trajectory.
Castle's biggest advantage will be that he looks like he'll be great in every other aspect of the game within two years, with just shooting left to focus on.

But then again, you said you're all in for tanking today, why am I even bothering. Imagine thinking a team with Wemby can outtank 8 teams that will lose games on purpose.
oh I believe we definitely could tank with Wemby. None of our players know how to win worth shit. Tbh we have so many low IQ players that tanking would be rather easy. The East would have their typical 4 teams that suck. We would have to contend with Portland. Utah hasn’t gotten rid of Lauri yet so they aren’t tanking. They will be 34 wins right there. Pop could put Wemby on a minute restriction again.

There are lots of avenues for us to tank that we could tank if we were serious about it. I don’t think we will tank but I’m seriously impressed with 5 prospects and I would love one of them on our team.

White was already a good shooter in college. Pop just hates the 3 point shot for some reason. Pop will never allow his point guard to take 5 threes a game or more. He should. Analytics says he should. 9 of the last 10 champions have had a PG that took 5 threes a game or more on their team. But Pop is stubborn. We just picked up CP3. Our point guard aren’t going to make 3s :lol

There are so many PGs that haven’t learned how to shoot. I can play that game too if I so wanted. Way more PGs came into the league with a broken shot and left the league with one.

[LeBowen]

There are so many PGs that haven’t learned how to shoot. I can play that game too if I so wanted. Way more PGs came into the league with a broken shot and left the league with one.

I didn't say Castle is guaranteed to shoot, I'm just saying we don't know what's going to happen. Even if he doesn't make improvements in his first few years.


There are lots of avenues for us to tank that we could tank if we were serious about it. I don’t think we will tank but I’m seriously impressed with 5 prospects and I would love one of them on our team.

Wemby wants to be on GOAT trajectory, he's too smart to not figure out any further tanking and we don't want to make him unhappy. Let the Hawks do the tanking for us over the next three years.

[TD 21]

Really really liked Castle's interview with CBS. He speaks like a veteran already in his answers and doesn't want any drama. I don't see why people would think he's stupid or want to compare him to Kawhi - he seems very smart to me and not at all autistic, just a quiet kind of dude. At least concerning basketball, he's got a great head on his shoulders -- and since that's his job, good on him.

Equating autism with stupidity is not only ignorant, but clueless, since the exact opposite is often true.

[tonight...you]

Dude will be at 30% from 3 his rookie year
And then hover at 33% for the next 4 years and I will hear people say well if he just improves it a little bit. For like the next 6 years I’m gonna hear people arguing that Castle is young and will learn how to shoot. And he never will.
Disagree, but you can whatever your whatevers.

[Pauleta14]

When I was watching Castle's high school tape, it gave me some SGA vibes. Castle has some of that funky, herkie jerky, post you up, inside out, one-on-one game to him. Castle doesn't have near the touch or range, or even the wingspan, but that's the best comp I can think of. Not predicting he ever gets close to that level, but I firmly believe that he's going to be able to create for himself off the dribble on the regular.

I agree with the comp, it was my initial one before I realised he won't benefit like SGA from as much time and "green lights".

Wemby's presence and playmaking abilities is another reason, we don't need a "pure" PG and playmaking will come from movements and passing as it seems to still be Pop's ambition.

Almost by default Castle will become closer to a Jrue type and it's actually a win-win for him to have a long(er) career and Spurs to have a long term reliable PG

[Pauleta14]

Can‘t wait for the Castle vs. Vassell threads to start :lol

That would be either a stupid thread or that Castle has no future at PG's position

So let's hope it never happens

[RC_Drunkford]

That would be either a stupid thread or that Castle has no future at PG's position

So let's hope it never happens

if you only knew how many stupid threads were made on this board :lol

[exstatic]

Would be good if it's just Wemby on max deal. But if both Devin and Castle get to max level players, someone will probably have to go. Not to mention if we get an all-star in a trade before it happens.



The thing is that you can't win every trade.
Trading away all-stars for elite role players doesn't always work out and expecting rookies to fit right in during Wemby's prime wouldn't end well.
That's why Markkanen would also make sense.

Max him until he's 32, then he either takes a paycut or goes.
Then Devin and Castle are up for extensions and unless they're both max players, we're still good.

But if we get an all-star who's on Devin/Castle extension timeline and is still in his prime, someone has to go.

I'd rather have Devin and Castle as our Jrue/Derrick duo or one of them becoming a max player than have both as max players.
Because if they're both max players, one eventually has to go. Yeah, we'd be good short term before the extension, but eventually we lose out.

Still years away, but as I said, another reason why Markkanen makes sense.
People expecting Spurs to trade for a ~23 year old all-star would be in for a rude awakening when everyone's up for an extension.

If he’s eligible for a 5 year extension/ contract give it to him, ride him for 3 of those years, plus this season if you can get him, then flip him for picks at age 31, with two years left on his deal. He won’t be too old to monetize with two years remaining.

[exstatic]

That would be either a stupid thread or that Castle has no future at PG's position

So let's hope it never happens

Tony was a PG and Manu a SG. Didn’t stop those threads.

[quentin_compson]

If this guy doesn't pan out, I want 2 things:

1) Spurstalk to never get a hard-on for a guard that can't shoot ever again. You know who you are, motherfuckers.

2) For PATFO to do the same fucking thing. Just give it a rest with the non-shooting prospects for a couple of seasons.

Neither will happen.

[Pauleta14]

Tony was a PG and Manu a SG. Didn’t stop those threads.

Tony was a SG in his head but his body only authorised him to play PG, it KILLED him to have to pass the ball :lol

There won't and can't have this pb just by the nature of the players

My point was mostly that I want Castle 10000% at the PG position except for a short learning period next to CP3.

+ They are so different I don't even get how they could be opposed for the same job. Vassel needs to become our sniper

[Pauleta14]

if you only knew how many stupid threads were made on this board :lol

Fair enough. :lol

[J_Paco]

I had no idea the actor Marc Blucas played college basketball, much less with Duncan. He was in Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

I'm pretty certain he is the 'best friend' that lived with Tim and his ex-wife Amy Duncan when they first moved to San Antonio. And he is who she was alleging was Timmy's 'gay lover, best friend' during their divorce proceedings.

[offset formation]

I'm pretty certain he is the 'best friend' that lived with Tim and his ex-wife Amy Duncan when they first moved to San Antonio. And he is who she was alleging was Timmy's 'gay lover, best friend' during their divorce proceedings.

What a horrible person she was. I get why he was so reluctant to put a ring on Vanessa's finger after that debacle of a woman. Seem like really good kids they have though probably all thanks to the GOAT'S parenting skills.

[Ice009]

I'm pretty certain he is the 'best friend' that lived with Tim and his ex-wife Amy Duncan when they first moved to San Antonio. And he is who she was alleging was Timmy's 'gay lover, best friend' during their divorce proceedings.

I remember that she was saying his best friend that moved in, but I thought it was someone else. Didn't Marc and Tim not really cross paths at Wake Forest for more than a season? I know that doesn't mean they couldn't have become really great friends, but I thought Marc was about 3 or 4 years older, so he wasn't there long with TD, was he? The 'gay lover, best friend' thing, was she serious about that (like did she actually believe that? [I don't and didn't]), or was it purely some sort of tactic to get more in the divorce proceedings?

[Chomag]

I know everyone is saying point guard, point guard but wouldn't it be better if he studies and pats his game around Jimmy Butler? To me his game seems much better suited for that type of player. Jimmy is a top level playmaker, that I think people don't give him credit for

[Pauleta14]

I know everyone is saying point guard, point guard but wouldn't it be better if he studies and pats his game around Jimmy Butler? To me his game seems much better suited for that type of player. Jimmy is a top level playmaker, that I think people don't give him credit for

I think Castle has some of Butler's characteristics and attitude but is a very diff player. He should inspire himself from him as much as Cp3 for diff parts of the game.

He's s liitle smaller than Butler and has way better scoring and playmaking abilities, not even close.

Castle's floor is a lot higher than Butler's

[KingKev]

Yeah, and even so, it took 5-6 games for Parker to dislodge him. CP3 will not be terrible.

I was so damn excited for that AD/DA back court!!! :spin

[J_Paco]

I remember that she was saying his best friend that moved in, but I thought it was someone else. Didn't Marc and Tim not really cross paths at Wake Forest for more than a season? I know that doesn't mean they couldn't have become really great friends, but I thought Marc was about 3 or 4 years older, so he wasn't there long with TD, was he? The 'gay lover, best friend' thing, was she serious about that (like did she actually believe that? [I don't and didn't]), or was it purely some sort of tactic to get more in the divorce proceedings?

You could be right about which player was Tim's best friend that moved in with him. It might be faulty memory, but I recall reading in SI article that mentions his 'best friend' from college that went on to become actor and lived with them his first year in San Antonio. He definitely had an old college teammate living with them, but it might not have been Marc.

Yeah, it was her attempt at have their prenuptial agreement annulled or to make Timmy look bad in the public's eye (cause all we knew is that she was cheater and that's why the marriage was ending).

[J_Paco]

I think Castle has some of Butler's characteristics and attitude but is a very diff player. He should inspire himself from him as much as Cp3 for diff parts of the game.

He's s liitle smaller than Butler and has way better scoring and playmaking abilities, not even close.

Castle's floor is a lot higher than Butler's

Him and Jimmy are nearly identical size-wise coming out of college. Jimmy was listed at 6'6" w/o shoes with a 6'7.5" wingspan, while Stephon is the same height but with slightly longer arms (6'9"). Biggest differences are that Jimmy was 2 years older coming out of college and 12 pounds heavier (more suited to guard bigger SG's & SF's) than Stephon is now.

I think Stephon can land somewhere in the middle as a player to what y'all are saying. We need a connector and a 'do-it-all' type guy and hopefully Steph can be that guy.

[Ice009]

You could be right about which player was Tim's best friend that moved in with him. It might be faulty memory, but I recall reading in SI article that mentions his 'best friend' from college that went on to become actor and lived with them his first year in San Antonio. He definitely had an old college teammate living with them, but it might not have been Marc.

Yeah, it was her attempt at have their prenuptial agreement annulled or to make Timmy look bad in the public's eye (cause all we knew is that she was cheater and that's why the marriage was ending).

I could be completely wrong and that they became great friends and that is the friend that was staying (I know they definitely are friends going by the movie clip another member posted), but I was just looking at their ages, and that Marc only played one season with TD at Wake Forest, so I just assumed the guy that Tim's ex was referring to might be someone else.

[JPB]

I believe Castle ceiling is elite role player, which in this weak draft would already be a success.

With his lack of shooting and alpha/scoring mentality, I dont see him as a potential co-star but rather a quality complementary starter or eventually elite sixth man. Spurs are probably looking at next year's draft and/or one big trade to hopefully add bigger star power.

[LeBowen]

I believe Castle ceiling is elite role player, which in this weak draft would already be a success.

With his lack of shooting and alpha/scoring mentality, I dont see him as a potential co-star but rather a quality complementary starter or eventually elite sixth man. Spurs are probably looking at next year's draft and/or one big trade to hopefully add bigger star power.

A lot of players adopted alpha mentality later on, especially those who came into the league as non-shooters.

The first thing I'd want Castle to improve on would be mid-range.
He looks to be good at methodical dribbling in the paint with the defender on his back.
Running PNR with Wemby would mean that FT line pull up is always an easy scoring option. If he develops that, he'd already be a positive on offense.

If CP3 was a bit younger, he'd hit like 5 of those mid-range pull ups every game.

[Pauleta14]

A lot of players adopted alpha mentality later on, especially those who came into the league as non-shooters.

The first thing I'd want Castle to improve on would be mid-range.
He looks to be good at methodical dribbling in the paint with the defender on his back.
Running PNR with Wemby would mean that FT line pull up is always an easy scoring option. If he develops that, he'd already be a positive on offense.

If CP3 was a bit younger, he'd hit like 5 of those mid-range pull ups every game.

Like who?

+ it's not so much the shooting ability (it doesn't hurt) but the scoring mentality, the "go get a bucket" type.

Imho it's not something you can learn and become later on, either u are that type of animal or you aren't. Usually from a young age

[LeBowen]

Like who?

+ it's not so much the shooting ability (it doesn't hurt) but the scoring mentality, the "go get a bucket" type.

Imho it's not something you can learn and become later on, either u are that type of animal or you aren't. Usually from a young age

Since some users are comparing him to Jimmy, he wasn't a scorer early on.
Neither was nephew.
Dejounte wasn't a scorer for many years. Not a great one now, but still has that mentality.
And many more.

I don't buy the young age narrative because almost every NBA player was the first option up until they got to college.

[Pauleta14]

Since some users are comparing him to Jimmy, he wasn't a scorer early on.
Neither was nephew.
Dejounte wasn't a scorer for many years. Not a great one now, but still has that mentality.
And many more.

I don't buy the young age narrative because almost every NBA player was the first option up until they got to college.

I don't consider Butler as a scorer even now. He can occasionaly take on the role but he isn't a "bucket getter". Neither is DJ to me

Most of those guys are often used off the bench like Monk for ex

To me they are a particular "breed" of bb players. It's beyond the technique or pure abilities (that can be learned), it's a mindset

[ambchang]

Not sure why people are equating scoring and being an alpha. Durant is one of the best scorers in the history of the league but he is a beta.

Kidd rarely scored, he was undoubtedly an alpha.

Castle seems to have leadership qualities, let’s see how he develops.

[Pauleta14]

Only 1 person used the word "alpha" and he probably meant "alpha scorer" (which KD is) and not "alpha personality" (which indeed KD isn't)

The point was just that it's often (exceptions to every rules of course) a MINDSET that is related to a personality/character

Castle is great the way he is, he's more "complete" than a pure scorer for ex and already understands the importance of all the little things a bb player needs to do on the court other than scoring.

Most players take years to get it.

[BackHome]

Not sure why people are equating scoring and being an alpha. Durant is one of the best scorers in the history of the league but he is a beta.

Kidd rarely scored, he was undoubtedly an alpha.

Castle seems to have leadership qualities, let’s see how he develops.

Yep, I think Castle has that vibe “Fuck around and find out” and I don’t see him backing down from anyone. As far as a bucket getter He is not that and I like that as he knows Wemby and Vassell will be the main shooters. That’s why I like him so much as he is going to do what it takes to win by either lock down defense, rebounding, setting up teammates for easy dunks and wide open 3.

[LeBowen]

https://youtu.be/GT1PbmmxsDQ?si=ANVYhwliGgJjpP7E

[ace3g]

https://x.com/tom_orsborn/status/1812715694020293055

[Knoxxx]

if you only knew how many stupid threads were made on this board :lol

We have so many stupid threads we usually don’t even bother pointing them out anymore.

[Knoxxx]

We have so many stupid threads we usually don’t even bother pointing them out anymore.

Oops sorry hit quote not edit: it’s as useful as pointing out the sky is blue.

On the flip side, I recall in the old days most every thread was met with an initial critique that it was stupid or a duplicate so at least we have mellowed out some.

[Seventyniner]

Blurb about Castle's summer league stint from The Ringer.

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2024/7/15/24198860/nba-summer-league-2024-las-vegas-reed-sheppard-alex-sarr



Gregg Popovich will have a hard time keeping Stephon Castle off the floor.

One of the pleasures of being an NBA elitist is getting the chance to introduce fresh new faces to the broader basketball world, so let me be the first to report that Stephon Castle is pretty awesome. There was simply no way to know this about one of the best players on the best team in college basketball last season because the only true crucible is summer league—the purest version of the game, spared from distractions like order and game plan and on-court chemistry. We can see the truth of Castle’s game in a glorified AAU tournament and, better yet, the single game of a glorified AAU tournament, before Castle withdrew from competition in Vegas with a wrist injury.

But what a game it was. Even in the summer league slop, Castle is an engine for intuitive, winning plays, connecting dots that lesser prospects wouldn’t see and manifesting plays that lesser athletes couldn’t create. The questions about Castle’s shot and position are inevitable, but those are almost beside the point; what’s most striking about watching him play against quasi-pros is realizing how difficult it will be to take him off the floor in the earliest days of his career. Why would the Spurs deprive themselves of a guard who comes by impact plays so naturally? Throw Castle into the mix and see what he can turn up, whether by jamming opponents up at the point of attack or slicing his way through the defense. Toolsy, theoretical players are fun and all, but so are the dudes who make shit happen almost incidentally, as if it were an entire way of life. —Rob Mahoney

[cutewizard]

Rapidly becoming one of my fav Spurs

[DR_Admiral]

I'm anxious to see how he defends the high end point guards. He's quick enough to stay tight on the ball to make it uncomfortable, and long enough to apply back pressure while funneling the ball into Wemby.

[Knoxxx]

I'm anxious to see how he defends the high end point guards. He's quick enough to stay tight on the ball to make it uncomfortable, and long enough to apply back pressure while funneling the ball into Wemby.

I see Sochan as our primary on large PGs aka SGA and Doncic. Castle primary stopper on regular sized PGs.

[ace3g]

https://x.com/TheAthleticNBA/status/1813571307176685630

[The Truth #6]

Blurb about Castle's summer league stint from The Ringer.

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2024/7/15/24198860/nba-summer-league-2024-las-vegas-reed-sheppard-alex-sarr

I like Mahoney. He knows his stuff.

[Knoxxx]

I like the way Castle calmly euro steps through the lane to attack the basket and draw contact. Great poise and BBIQ for a 19 year old! Plus the smart passes and defense. The jumper will decide whether he becomes an all star, but he’s also showing a knack for middies and floaters he’s clearly way along the curve for his age, smart player!

[ace3g]

https://x.com/RKalland/status/1814441264688845285

[Manu-of-steel]

Nice read! Thanks for sharing!

[Ocotillo]

Some folks were comparing Castle to Nephew because of the way he talks when he interviewed but I don't recall Leonard talking as much to the press as Castle is. He isn't going to be on post games as much as Manu and Bowen used to be, but he is not an autistic mute either.

[Knoxxx]

Some folks were comparing Castle to Nephew because of the way he talks when he interviewed but I don't recall Leonard talking as much to the press as Castle is. He isn't going to be on post games as much as Manu and Bowen used to be, but he is not an autistic mute either.

A couple things, though this isn’t a Kawhi thread.

1) Tim Duncan was not much for interviews either, but not a reason to hate on him of course. His stoicism was part of his greatness and legend and viewed as an asset.

2) Kahwhi has a rare degenerative condition. Tendonipathy is bad news. There is no surgical cure, no real cure at all. You just have to use conservative treatment, exercise and rest basically, and hope for the best. Imagine how frustrating it would be to go to the best doctors and there is no actual cure.

Here is an article that discusses it:

https://medium.com/@rsbrar/dont-be-fooled-the-mystery-of-kawhi-s-quad-injury-isn-t-a-mystery-at-all-b1aa4161cc87

I can also relate to this as I believe I have upper hamstring tendinopathy, but have been getting the run around for years with X-rays, physical therapy, recently a cortisone shot. I’ll probably finally get an MRI on it, but expect they will come back with it’s nothing they can fix. It’s not horrible, but it’s a nagging annoying thing to be sure. Of course I’m not trying to play professional sports on it, just griping that my butt gets sore when I spend all day on the computer for work.

While I understand why Kawhi is viewed as a traitor, I can think of it from his view point and understand why his condition caused confusion and things went sideways. In light of the circumstances, he did us a big favor by moving on to when he did. These are also the reasons why being a Kawhi hater doesn’t make any sense. Even if you have zero class, realize what happened worked out for the best for him and the Spurs and move on. We got to enjoy prime Kawhi for most of its duration and it was a nice ride.

[Rosewood]

While I understand why Kawhi is viewed as a traitor, I can think of it from his view point and understand why his condition caused confusion and things went sideways. In light of the circumstances, he did us a big favor by moving on to when he did. These are also the reasons why being a Kawhi hater doesn’t make any sense. Even if you have zero class, realize what happened worked out for the best for him and the Spurs and move on. We got to enjoy prime Kawhi for most of its duration and it was a nice ride. nah, fuck Kawhi Leonard. Forever.

[Ice009]

One thing about Kawhi, he's not lazy. He could have had a part in the injury as he overworks himself. Not sure if he would have become the player he became if he didn't work that hard, but that may have had a hand in the injury.

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

Blucas even mentions Duncan in one of his movies.

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/xeghtm


https://www.dailymotion.com/video/xeghtm

"is there something going on with you and tim duncan?"

ST:

https://i.imgflip.com/5tdwf.jpg

[JPB]

Blurb about Castle's summer league stint from The Ringer.

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2024/7/15/24198860/nba-summer-league-2024-las-vegas-reed-sheppard-alex-sarr

"The questions about Castle’s shot and position are inevitable, but those are almost beside the point"


:lol That's the whole point.

Also :lol at "quasi NBA players"

Aaah, summer league takes.

[LeBowen]

:lol That's the whole point.

Also :lol at "quasi NBA players"

Aaah, summer league takes.

No, it's not the whole point. Him being a bad shooter was a well-known fact.
What we needed to figure out early on was if he's good enough to be a primary ballhandler and how good are his passing skills.
Noone can argue that he exceeded all the expectations in that department.
(No, I'm not going in depth with you again, since you're just spewing nonsense about Castle for the sake of it, I already explained it to you and posted actual videos.)

[exstatic]

One thing about Kawhi, he's not lazy. He could have had a part in the injury as he overworks himself. Not sure if he would have become the player he became if he didn't work that hard, but that may have had a hand in the injury.

One thing about Kawhi is that the last four seasons he played were 60,57,52, and 50 games, he played 68 last year. I’m sure it was just a coincidence that the league implemented a 65 minimum for awards and post season teams.

[Ice009]

One thing about Kawhi is that the last four seasons he played were 60,57,52, and 50 games, he played 68 last year. I’m sure it was just a coincidence that the league implemented a 65 minimum for awards and post season teams.

Yeah, I had an idea he only played low amounts and those rules may have been place due to his load management stuff that he seemed to take to another level. Pop may have been one of the coaches that sort of started it, but I think Kawhi took it to another level after forced his way off the Spurs and I agree with those rule changes for the awards.

Having said that, I still want to know what happened between the Spurs and him, as I think he's wrong if he blamed the Spurs for the injury. I feel he may have had a bigger hand in it due to the amount of work training he was always doing.

[Tyronn Lue]

A couple things, though this isn’t a Kawhi thread.

1) Tim Duncan was not much for interviews either, but not a reason to hate on him of course. His stoicism was part of his greatness and legend and viewed as an asset.

2) Kahwhi has a rare degenerative condition. Tendonipathy is bad news. There is no surgical cure, no real cure at all. You just have to use conservative treatment, exercise and rest basically, and hope for the best. Imagine how frustrating it would be to go to the best doctors and there is no actual cure.

Here is an article that discusses it:

https://medium.com/@rsbrar/dont-be-fooled-the-mystery-of-kawhi-s-quad-injury-isn-t-a-mystery-at-all-b1aa4161cc87

I can also relate to this as I believe I have upper hamstring tendinopathy, but have been getting the run around for years with X-rays, physical therapy, recently a cortisone shot. I’ll probably finally get an MRI on it, but expect they will come back with it’s nothing they can fix. It’s not horrible, but it’s a nagging annoying thing to be sure. Of course I’m not trying to play professional sports on it, just griping that my butt gets sore when I spend all day on the computer for work.

While I understand why Kawhi is viewed as a traitor, I can think of it from his view point and understand why his condition caused confusion and things went sideways. In light of the circumstances, he did us a big favor by moving on to when he did. These are also the reasons why being a Kawhi hater doesn’t make any sense. Even if you have zero class, realize what happened worked out for the best for him and the Spurs and move on. We got to enjoy prime Kawhi for most of its duration and it was a nice ride.
This is a good post.

It's quite likely that the team fortunes go like this

1. Toronto
2. San Antonio
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
LA Clippers

[DAF86]

D-cPaBNGcLo?si=AKGJDHsgxrSEehte

[Atl Spur]

He’s a pg��

[JPB]

No, it's not the whole point. Him being a bad shooter was a well-known fact.
What we needed to figure out early on was if he's good enough to be a primary ballhandler and how good are his passing skills.
Noone can argue that he exceeded all the expectations in that department.
(No, I'm not going in depth with you again, since you're just spewing nonsense about Castle for the sake of it, I already explained it to you and posted actual videos.)

Ofc that's the whole point. Spurs don't need a primary ball handler with Wemby in (that's one of the reasons some fans didn't want Tre) or another "postionless" guy like Sochan. And not like Castle is Kyrie, Stockton or prime CP3 either. He's not elite enough at playmaking if he doesn't fix his shooting issues. Again, it's not about being OK or good, but great. This is the freaking NBA.

Everybody said we needed shooting on this team before the draft and everyone said players in this draft were all coming issues. Then spurs draft Castle and some fans are like "Who cares if he can't shoot in today's NBA! Look, our baby can handle the ball and cut in summer league vs. scrubs! Future HOFer! Gonna be great to see him do his show and make a brick contest with Sochan while opponents will triple team Wemby!"

The NBA is filled with guys who can handle the ball. Shooting is what will make the difference for Castle. It's OK to do your thing in summer league where defenses are garbage and there's no scouting report, but Castle won't have all these lines and space if he can't shoot in the NBA. People will just clog the paint and dare him to shoot.

[LeBowen]

Ofc that's the whole point. Spurs don't need a primary ball handler with Wemby in (that's one of the reasons some fans didn't want Tre) or another "postionless" guy like Sochan. And not like Castle is Kyrie, Stockton or prime CP3 either. He's not elite enough at playmaking if he doesn't fix his shooting issues. Again, it's not about being OK or good, but great. This is the freaking NBA.

Everybody said we needed shooting on this team before the draft and everyone said players in this draft were all coming issues. Then spurs draft Castle and some fans are like "Who cares if he can't shoot in today's NBA! Look, our baby can handle the ball and cut in summer league vs. scrubs! Future HOFer! Gonna be great to see him do his show and make a brick contest with Sochan while opponents will triple team Wemby!"

The NBA is filled with guys who can handle the ball. Shooting is what will make the difference for Castle. It's OK to do your thing in summer league where defenses are garbage and there's no scouting report, but Castle won't have all these lines and space if he can't shoot in the NBA. People will just clog the paint and dare him to shoot.

Stop fucking embarrassing yourself already, please.
I'll have to block you, no other way around it.
There's nothing I hate more on the internet than people who spew nonsense, get proven wrong with actual data and videos, act like nothing happened and come back with the same nonsense a few days later, acting like nothing happened.
Your post is so horrible I don't even know where to begin with.
Stop quoting me on this topic since you're acting like an idiot when it comes to Castle. Better be prepared for a wall of your posts being pasted after every game this season, so the entire forum can see how lost you were on this.

[JPB]

Stop fucking embarrassing yourself already, please.
I'll have to block you, no other way around it.
There's nothing I hate more on the internet than people who spew nonsense, get proven wrong with actual data and videos, act like nothing happened and come back with the same nonsense a few days later, acting like nothing happened.
Your post is so horrible I don't even know where to begin with.
Stop quoting me on this topic since you're acting like an idiot when it comes to Castle. Better be prepared for a wall of your posts being pasted after every game this season, so the entire forum can see how lost you were on this.

then block me, mate... Don't know why you got so emotional about Castle. But before, go read what people were saying about Sochan when we drafted him if you wanna see people embarassing themselves.

Cliff Notes: "Who cares if sochan can't shoot", this isn't the point.. look at his versatility and playmaking abilities." (reminds you of something?). There were even people hating on me and asking to stop embarassing myself when I said it was craziness to put him at the point...

Yes, ST experts liked it at first, to tell how deluded and hopeful we sometimes are about our players... Now, ST is all about: 'Sochan is explandable, dude can't shoot for his life. Good at several things, not great at anything".

So yes, defining a role and developing a shoot are important for Castle. I mean ofc, it is, Uh? Did some of you you totally lose your mind or is it some honeymoon thing where the other one is just so ideal and perfect... before only time will tell you who they really are?

Now you can block me.

Crazy how some of you guys went totally histerical after 2 summer league games and can't stand a bit of contradiction about Castle. It's like you want so much him to become that star that you'll hate on anybody trying to bring some moderation, sense and distance after two freaking summer league games where many guys who never lookd like MJ out there.

[LeBowen]

then block me, mate...

I completely stopped replying to your nonsense about Castle in which you provide zero arguments and you keep quoting me on the matter with nothing but whataboutisms and projections based on nothing but your subjective opinions.


but before, go read what people were saying about Sochan when we drafted him if you wanna see people embarassing themselves.

Two different players playing two different positions with two different skillsets.


Cliff Notes: "Who cares if sochan can't shoot", this isn't the point.. look at his versatility and playmaking abilities. (reminds you something?). There were even people hating on me and asking to stop embarassing myself when I said it was craziness to put him at the point...

Sochan's only improvement over two seasons was his FT shooting. His other stats, both box score and advanced, are almost identical.
Idk who was hating on you back then, right now I'm hating on you because you provide no actual arguments whatsoever, how many times do I have to repeat it to you?
You can compare Castle to Sochan, I can compare him to Dejounte who had a way worse starting position than Castle in every single aspect of the game. And it wouldn't matter. Different players.


Crazy how some of you guys went totally histerical after 2 summer league games and can't stand a bit of contradiction about Castle. It's like you want so much Castle to become that star that you hate on anybody trying to bring some moderation, sense and distance after two freaking summer league games where many guys who never made the NBA killed it.

Stop strawmanning me now. I'm not going histerical if I say his ballhandling, passing, playmaking decisions are way better than advertised by most draft analysts and scouts because a lot of them had him as a wing and not a point guard.

For dozenth time, I'm all for moderation, sense and distance if you provide some actual arguments why you don't think Castle will be a primary playmaker, then we can talk.
Comparing him to Sochan isn't it.
Summer league stats also aren't it. It's about eye test. Nothing he did happened because of his physical talents. He didn't blow by unathletic g-league scrubs, he got to the rim methodically and his passing decisions were excellent.

Playmaking is the most difficult thing to improve. As they say, you're either born with it or you aren't. Castle showed us every single type of pass.
From simple dump offs, to lobs, to cross court passes, to full sprint, one-handed passes, to passes that weren't the obvious decision to make.
Yeah, it will be harder in the NBA, but passing IQ translates.
Then when I linked a couple in-depth 30min videos, you obviously didn't watch them or reply.

You also said he was never a point guard and that's just not true. He was a point guard throughout his development up until UConn.

Then in your previous post you say Spurs don't need a primary ballhandler with Wemby while we're watching these Olympics preparation games and Wemby having to do everything by himself, which is obviously suboptimal.
I guess when you say primary ballhandler you refer to heliocentric playmakers.


Everybody said we needed shooting on this team

And which shooters were available at #4?
Risacher and Sheppard were gone, PATFO would never pick Dillingham because of his size.
Others will be lucky if they become average shooters. I guess there was Carrington at #14, but he's a way inferior prospect and we got our share of shooting guards.

We got our shooting in CP3 and Barnes.


The NBA is filled with guys who can handle the ball.

Again, for dozeth time, how many lead guards who are all-defense level are there in the league?
Jrue, Derrick, SGA, Suggs, Edwards, Smart.
That's it.
And out of those 6, I'd say only first 3 are good enough to be actual point guards, other three don't have enough passing ability for it.


Shooting is what will make the difference for Castle.

And noone said it won't. Or that he'll magically become a good shooter during the summer. It will be a long process.

It's just you instantly shitting on everything we say because Castle is a bad shooter. We're all high on him because very few of us thought his playmaking skills will be so advanced right away.
Is he ready to be the point guard in the NBA right away? Probably not. But unlike his shooting, it won't be a long process.
Is he guaranteed to be Jrue/Jimmy two-way star hybrid? Obviously not. And he probably won't be. But you can't deny his slow and methodical penetration isn't similar to theirs. And then when someone says it's reminiscent of Jimmy, you jump in with no context and act as if someone said Castle is the next Jimmy.

We all have our favorites and the players we dislike, but I'm not going to accept you quoting me with just whataboutisms without any arguments other than strawmans and Sochan comparisons.
When I shit on Jeremy, I provide context because he's a horrible offensive player at any range, not just behind the 3pt line.

And anyone who thinks Castle's playmaking is similar to Jeremy's is either blind or just trying to trigger people for the sake of it.

[SpursFan86]

I think it’s fairly simple tbh…

Scenario 1: Castle hardly improves his shooting at all and is a total non-threat from the perimeter.
Result: He tops out as a solid glue guy. Would essentially guarantee that either he or Sochan are bench players because having both of them in the starting lineup is almost certainly not optimal.

Scenario 2: Castle becomes at least an average shooter. Let’s call it 35% from 3 on moderate volume. Teams aren’t going to be terrified of him shooting but they at least won’t totally ignore the possibility of him taking jumpers.
Result: He’s a quality starter-level player. Probably not a top 3 option offensively, but he’d at least be a positive impact guy offensively…add in (presumably) elite defense and you have a great piece for a contender.

Scenario 3: Castle becomes a good shooter. Shooting >=37% from 3 on solid volume even with teams putting in effort to not leave him open.
Result: He’s likely all-star caliber in this scenario. Maybe not in terms of actually making the game but in terms of his overall impact I think he’d definitely be an all-star level player. High positive impact on both sides of the ball who can be put into pretty much any lineup without any concerns of poor fit.

Obviously this is a bit of simplification but for the most part your outlook on Castle depends on the probabilities you assign to these 3 scenarios. I think anyone who isn’t biased would agree that scenarios 1 and 2 are the most likely. But is it 40/40/20? Is it 70/25/5? The answer is going to tell you how high you are on Castle.

I think acting like he’s a no-brainer slam dunk in scenario 1 is a little silly, but so is acting like he’s out of the league in 3 years in that scenario. Depending on salaries it could mean keeping both him and Sochan is untenable.

[Manu&Duncan fan]

I think it’s fairly simple tbh…

Scenario 1: Castle hardly improves his shooting at all and is a total non-threat from the perimeter.
Result: He tops out as a solid glue guy. Would essentially guarantee that either he or Sochan are bench players because having both of them in the starting lineup is almost certainly not optimal.

Scenario 2: Castle becomes at least an average shooter. Let’s call it 35% from 3 on moderate volume. Teams aren’t going to be terrified of him shooting but they at least won’t totally ignore the possibility of him taking jumpers.
Result: He’s a quality starter-level player. Probably not a top 3 option offensively, but he’d at least be a positive impact guy offensively…add in (presumably) elite defense and you have a great piece for a contender.

Scenario 3: Castle becomes a good shooter. Shooting >=37% from 3 on solid volume even with teams putting in effort to not leave him open.
Result: He’s likely all-star caliber in this scenario. Maybe not in terms of actually making the game but in terms of his overall impact I think he’d definitely be an all-star level player. High positive impact on both sides of the ball who can be put into pretty much any lineup without any concerns of poor fit.

Obviously this is a bit of simplification but for the most part your outlook on Castle depends on the probabilities you assign to these 3 scenarios. I think anyone who isn’t biased would agree that scenarios 1 and 2 are the most likely. But is it 40/40/20? Is it 70/25/5? The answer is going to tell you how high you are on Castle.

I think acting like he’s a no-brainer slam dunk in scenario 1 is a little silly, but so is acting like he’s out of the league in 3 years in that scenario. Depending on salaries it could mean keeping both him and Sochan is untenable.

Based on his shooting form and his calm demeanor, Scenario 3 has over 50% chance of happening. Scenario 2 has 33%.

[LeBowen]

Castle has to develop a respectable shot, but his shot won't determine if he's an all-star.

Since you're mentioning percentages, up until this season Fox was a career 32% 3pt shooter.
Jrue was at 33% in his three peak seasons with Pelicans. Why Pelicans? Because he was the undisputed primary ballhandler with them, unlike Bucks or Celtics.
Averaged 20/7 with elite defense. That should be Castle's target.
Jimmy is a career 32% 3pt shooter and was seen as one of the best playoff performers in the league.

If Castle can become one of the best point of attack defenders in the league and a good playmaker (let's say 6 to 8 assists with low turnovers), he'll be a high end starter even with low 30s from 3pt.
If he learns how to use his size well, he'll be a huge mismatch because noone on our starting lineup will be under 6'6 and that's just a nightmare for every team with traditional size point guard.

[rjv]

i guess "let's see what happens" isn't a very exciting position to take.

[Atl Spur]

Ofc that's the whole point. Spurs don't need a primary ball handler with Wemby in (that's one of the reasons some fans didn't want Tre) or another "postionless" guy like Sochan. And not like Castle is Kyrie, Stockton or prime CP3 either. He's not elite enough at playmaking if he doesn't fix his shooting issues. Again, it's not about being OK or good, but great. This is the freaking NBA.

Everybody said we needed shooting on this team before the draft and everyone said players in this draft were all coming issues. Then spurs draft Castle and some fans are like "Who cares if he can't shoot in today's NBA! Look, our baby can handle the ball and cut in summer league vs. scrubs! Future HOFer! Gonna be great to see him do his show and make a brick contest with Sochan while opponents will triple team Wemby!"

The NBA is filled with guys who can handle the ball. Shooting is what will make the difference for Castle. It's OK to do your thing in summer league where defenses are garbage and there's no scouting report, but Castle won't have all these lines and space if he can't shoot in the NBA. People will just clog the paint and dare him to shoot.

Hmmm……. A lot of text. It takes more than shooting to be a quality nba player; castle has many talents including the most important basketball iq. Shooting may be a glaring weakness now but give it some time before writing him off.

[BSfromTX]

Hmmm……. A lot of text. It takes more than shooting to be a quality nba player; castle has many talents including the most important basketball iq. Shooting may be a glaring weakness now but give it some time before writing him off.

agree. He's only 19. Can't say he won't improve shooting. What is impressive is his strength, athletic ability, patience in the pain, and court vision.. shooting is way easier to improve than those

[Mr. Body]

Castle has to develop a respectable shot, but his shot won't determine if he's an all-star.

Since you're mentioning percentages, up until this season Fox was a career 32% 3pt shooter.
Jrue was at 33% in his three peak seasons with Pelicans. Why Pelicans? Because he was the undisputed primary ballhandler with them, unlike Bucks or Celtics.
Averaged 20/7 with elite defense. That should be Castle's target.
Jimmy is a career 32% 3pt shooter and was seen as one of the best playoff performers in the league.

If Castle can become one of the best point of attack defenders in the league and a good playmaker (let's say 6 to 8 assists with low turnovers), he'll be a high end starter even with low 30s from 3pt.
If he learns how to use his size well, he'll be a huge mismatch because noone on our starting lineup will be under 6'6 and that's just a nightmare for every team with traditional size point guard.

Right on. There's a template for this player already and not to get too ahead of ourselves, but Castle is bigger than Holiday and had more success in his college season and is more of a playmaker than Butler. Whatever the results are, these are the players to tab.

Castle's route to NBA success doesn't really depend on his jumper. His steps to success are already present, only relying on improvement and adapting. Too many of us are obsessed with shooting and the short term, as if getting a single-skill shooter in will fix everything next year. It won't.

Castle's success, if he hits, will be lasting and long-term, and that's independent of how well he shoots. He already gets huge amounts of space in basic pick-and-rolls. Even if he just develops a midrange - which I think is highly likely, as it looks very good - then he's a lot of trouble. Playing next to Wembanyama, who is also a developing long range threat, it's a lot for a defense to handle.

Castle is going to find the floor, a lot, simply with the package he already has. If he becomes any level of threat to be accounted for from deep, there's a major threat. There continues to be a misperception of him as a wing, when he's going to be part of the top of the key playmaking process.

[BSfromTX]

Right on. There's a template for this player already and not to get too ahead of ourselves, but Castle is bigger than Holiday and had more success in his college season and is more of a playmaker than Butler. Whatever the results are, these are the players to tab.

Castle's route to NBA success doesn't really depend on his jumper. His steps to success are already present, only relying on improvement and adapting. Too many of us are obsessed with shooting and the short term, as if getting a single-skill shooter in will fix everything next year. It won't.

Castle's success, if he hits, will be lasting and long-term, and that's independent of how well he shoots. He already gets huge amounts of space in basic pick-and-rolls. Even if he just develops a midrange - which I think is highly likely, as it looks very good - then he's a lot of trouble. Playing next to Wembanyama, who is also a developing long range threat, it's a lot for a defense to handle.

Castle is going to find the floor, a lot, simply with the package he already has. If he becomes any level of threat to be accounted for from deep, there's a major threat. There continues to be a misperception of him as a wing, when he's going to be part of the top of the key playmaking process.


I don't get this. Not only has he said he wants to play PG, but he will need to shoot better and his size will be little advantage (maybe a disadvantage) as a wing. As said earlier, if he can run the point and even shoot 30% from 3, he will be a match up nightmare. It would be a disappointment if he is used primarily as a wing.

[The Truth #6]

i guess "let's see what happens" isn't a very exciting position to take.

Lol. True.

[TD 21]

Castle has to develop a respectable shot, but his shot won't determine if he's an all-star.

Since you're mentioning percentages, up until this season Fox was a career 32% 3pt shooter.
Jrue was at 33% in his three peak seasons with Pelicans. Why Pelicans? Because he was the undisputed primary ballhandler with them, unlike Bucks or Celtics.
Averaged 20/7 with elite defense. That should be Castle's target.
Jimmy is a career 32% 3pt shooter and was seen as one of the best playoff performers in the league.

If Castle can become one of the best point of attack defenders in the league and a good playmaker (let's say 6 to 8 assists with low turnovers), he'll be a high end starter even with low 30s from 3pt.
If he learns how to use his size well, he'll be a huge mismatch because noone on our starting lineup will be under 6'6 and that's just a nightmare for every team with traditional size point guard.

Maybe so, but more importantly, his shot will determine whether he can be a key cog on a championship contender or an attractive enough piece to be in (headline?) a package for one.


I don't get this. Not only has he said he wants to play PG, but he will need to shoot better and his size will be little advantage (maybe a disadvantage) as a wing. As said earlier, if he can run the point and even shoot 30% from 3, he will be a match up nightmare. It would be a disappointment if he is used primarily as a wing.

Who cares what he wants? Most want to play the glamor role and he's not a good enough prospect for them to concern themselves with that.

So long as Paul and Jones stay relatively healthy, he's going to be primarily playing off ball next season.

[BackHome]

i guess "let's see what happens" isn't a very exciting position to take.j


Pretty much every draft pick not named Wemby...

[KobesAchilles]

Dude isn’t going to be a good defender next year. It’s gonna take 4 years for Castle to be considered an above average point guard. If at all. I’m not at all high on this pick.

[exstatic]

Dude isn’t going to be a good defender next year. It’s gonna take 4 years for Castle to be considered an above average point guard. If at all. I’m not at all high on this pick.

That makes me feel so much better. Your takes are usually knee jerk and pessimistic. I would have worried if you liked him.

[KobesAchilles]

That makes me feel so much better. Your takes are usually knee jerk and pessimistic. I would have worried if you liked him.
And also right. I’m only pessimistic bc what I said 5 years ago has turned out to be true. I would’ve loved to have been wrong that we would still be a bad franchise in 2024. That we are a badly run organization from ownership, management, coaching, and majority of players (Wemby aside).

I also did proclaim before the draft that we were going to get the #1 pick and get Wemby so I’m not all pessimistic

To me, point guard defense is overrated. People on here are acting like he’s going to be some savior on the defensive end. Like Castle will just come in and play all nba defense. I mean look who he’s constantly being compared to, top tier defenders. I just don’t think he will be that. I don’t think he will be a bad defender just not all world and certainly not enough for it to excuse his lack of a jumper.

[ace3g]

https://x.com/CrumpledJumper/status/1816305876325581256

[TD 21]

And also right. I’m only pessimistic bc what I said 5 years ago has turned out to be true. I would’ve loved to have been wrong that we would still be a bad franchise in 2024. That we are a badly run organization from ownership, management, coaching, and majority of players (Wemby aside).

I also did proclaim before the draft that we were going to get the #1 pick and get Wemby so I’m not all pessimistic

To me, point guard defense is overrated. People on here are acting like he’s going to be some savior on the defensive end. Like Castle will just come in and play all nba defense. I mean look who he’s constantly being compared to, top tier defenders. I just don’t think he will be that. I don’t think he will be a bad defender just not all world and certainly not enough for it to excuse his lack of a jumper.

The thing is, it doesn't even matter if he is an elite POA defender, because in the "target" ball era it's all about your weakest link (aka small/weak guard and/or slow footed big).

Building a core without one usually results in a trade off of spacing and/or shot creation.

Only the Celtics and Thunder have been able to pull off the best of both worlds, but it took a lot of fortune to do so.

[JPB]

I completely stopped replying to your nonsense about Castle in which you provide zero arguments and you keep quoting me on the matter with nothing but whataboutisms and projections based on nothing but your subjective opinions.



the (simple) argument is overraction and lack of distance about our prospects.
You, about sochan in 2022 (Spoiler: this is "embarassing"):


What do you define as star? An all-star? Sure.
First or 1A/1B option on a legit contender? We'll see. Not the Spurs way, anyway.

His defense is just ridiculous for a rookie. If nothing goes wrong, he'll easily be the best defender in the league in 3 to 5 years.

I don't really watch college or bother with all the potential picks we don't get, so his playmaking really surprised me. If he's this good so early on, he can become a legit secondary ballhandler.
I don't think he'll ever run the point, but I'd like to be surprised.

Call me biased, but after watching all these kids so far, if I had to do a redraft I'd even take him as the first pick.
It's way easier to turn an elite defender into a star on offense than the other way around. Nephew and Jimmy being the best examples.
How many elite scorers developed into elite defenders later on?

That's what I mean about distance, moderation and not overacting but waiting and seeing how our prospects actually develop.

I sure hope Castle becomes a legit contributor but I need way much more than 2 summer league games to say so and tag him as future star despite his current poor shooting and lack of defined position just because WE drafted him.

[LeBowen]

the (simple) argument is overraction and lack of distance about our prospects.
You, about sochan in 2022 (Spoiler: this is "embarassing"):



That's what I mean about distance, moderation and not overacting but waiting and seeing how our prospects actually develop.

I sure hope Castle becomes a legit contributor but I need way much more than 2 summer league games to say so and tag him as future star despite his current poor shooting and lack of defined position just because WE drafted him.

Go fuck yourself, I already told you.
Spineless pussy who ghosts a dozen attempts of an argumented discussion and pulls out a bad take from two years ago.

When I get the time, I'm going to find every single of your horrible takes and just keep pasting them wherever you post.
Just because you're a coward who ghosts and changes subjects.

[Knoxxx]

I now pronounce you an old married couple congrats!

:married:

[Uriel]

I think it’s fairly simple tbh…

Scenario 1: Castle hardly improves his shooting at all and is a total non-threat from the perimeter.
Result: He tops out as a solid glue guy. Would essentially guarantee that either he or Sochan are bench players because having both of them in the starting lineup is almost certainly not optimal.

Scenario 2: Castle becomes at least an average shooter. Let’s call it 35% from 3 on moderate volume. Teams aren’t going to be terrified of him shooting but they at least won’t totally ignore the possibility of him taking jumpers.
Result: He’s a quality starter-level player. Probably not a top 3 option offensively, but he’d at least be a positive impact guy offensively…add in (presumably) elite defense and you have a great piece for a contender.

Scenario 3: Castle becomes a good shooter. Shooting >=37% from 3 on solid volume even with teams putting in effort to not leave him open.
Result: He’s likely all-star caliber in this scenario. Maybe not in terms of actually making the game but in terms of his overall impact I think he’d definitely be an all-star level player. High positive impact on both sides of the ball who can be put into pretty much any lineup without any concerns of poor fit.

Obviously this is a bit of simplification but for the most part your outlook on Castle depends on the probabilities you assign to these 3 scenarios. I think anyone who isn’t biased would agree that scenarios 1 and 2 are the most likely. But is it 40/40/20? Is it 70/25/5? The answer is going to tell you how high you are on Castle.

I think acting like he’s a no-brainer slam dunk in scenario 1 is a little silly, but so is acting like he’s out of the league in 3 years in that scenario. Depending on salaries it could mean keeping both him and Sochan is untenable.
I think Scenario 2 is by far the most likely. I’d even say it’s a 20-60-20 split for each of the three scenarios.

Keep in mind that Castle’s shooting form looks good and he is renowned for his work ethic.

[scott]

I'm excited to see what Castle offers and I'm glad we picked him at 4... but I also think we're delusional to not acknowledge their is a non-zero probability that he's a complete bust (this is true among everyone drafted this year).

[Mr. Body]

I would be completely stunned if Castle is a bust.

There's not another player in this draft that I'm convinced will carve out at least a solid long-term role in this league.

[DAF86]

I would be completely stunned if Castle is a bust.

There's not another player in this draft that I'm convinced will carve out at least a solid long-term role in this league.

I would be shocked if Sheppard doesn't have a 10+ years career, tbh.

[timtonymanu]

Mrs Body making that claim. Shit, I'm worried for Castle now.

[JPB]

I'm excited to see what Castle offers and I'm glad we picked him at 4... but I also think we're delusional to not acknowledge their is a non-zero probability that he's a complete bust (this is true among everyone drafted this year).

You never know and I guess it depends on anyone expectations but giving his skillset, good size, mobility (and probably defensive abilities), I believe his floor should be a good contributor/role player. Shooting could open a lot of things for him and define his ceiling, as an elite role player, a star maybe (not a top one tho imo) if he really get things together.

[ace3g]

Still wearing the wrist brace.

C-IPGyWAK9d

[John B]

Still wearing the wrist brace.

C-IPGyWAK9d

How tall is the guy next to him?

[Seventyniner]

I still have trouble telling Castle and Vassell apart at a glance. They don't look exactly alike but it's close enough that I can't instantly tell which one it is. Likely it's due to me having seen Vassell often in games but Castle is new to the team.

[DAF86]

I still have trouble telling Castle and Vassell apart at a glance. They don't look exactly alike but it's close enough that I can't instantly tell which one it is. Likely it's due to me having seen Vassell often in games but Castle is new to the team.

It's the hair style.

[John B]

I still have trouble telling Castle and Vassell apart at a glance. They don't look exactly alike but it's close enough that I can't instantly tell which one it is. Likely it's due to me having seen Vassell often in games but Castle is new to the team.

Vassell is more finesse while Castle looks like will bully his defender

[BackHome]

Yeah, they a good combo as Vassell really doesn’t like taking it to the rim and Castle doesn’t have a problem using his physicality inside to score

[spurraider21]

1829678372881936588

[heyheymymy]

1829678372881936588

Castle working out with The Guard whisperer who also trained SGA

[heyheymymy]

Castle is going to be NASTY

Just get the feeling he is a going to blow minds. Castle is such a natural and Spurs type player, the fit is next level.

[exstatic]

Castle working out with The Guard whisperer who also trained SGA

That is good. I didn’t know who you were referring to, so I did some searching, and found an article on their history. Interesting that he’s always worked with him, and after he was traded to OKC, Simplis flew in his new teammate, CP3.

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/1142031/2019/08/16/meet-shai-gilgeous-alexanders-trainer-the-guard-whisperer-and-find-out-how-the-new-thunder-guard-spent-his-summer/#

[Atl Spur]

We already knew buddy was nice…. Like I said a million times, he’s a pg:)

[Mr. Body]

Dude dropped 41 points on the #1 team in the country his senior year of high school.

[KobesAchilles]

Castle’s shot is NASTY looking.

Just get the feeling he is a going to blow minds with his bad shooting on open looks. Castle is such a natural and Spurs type player, the fit (with him and all our other nonshooters) is next level.

[T Park]

Dude isn’t going to be a good defender next year. It’s gonna take 4 years for Castle to be considered an above average point guard. If at all. I’m not at all high on this pick.


Drugs are bad

[KobesAchilles]

Drugs are bad
Yes they are. Who is the last rookie guard that came into the league as some great defender. Especially at point guard. It’s just not going to happen.

[exstatic]

Yes they are. Who is the last rookie guard that came into the league as some great defender. Especially at point guard. It’s just not going to happen.

Most players coming into the L don’t give a shit about defense. That hardly proves your point.

Dejounte Murray and Derrick White were both good, and DJ made All D in year 2.

[Mr. Body]

My biggest thing about Castle's defense is learning how not to foul. He fouled a bit too much in college. He can get too aggressive with how he bodies and shoulders guys. Already he gets on the verge of pushing it and because Silver's fuck-ass rules give everything to the offensive player, it's a concern. When it works, however, Castle can really get guys off-balance and out of step by how he uses his chest and shoulders on defense without it appearing like he is. He's really strong.

If he can get that balance right, he's going to be a hell of a defender.

[KobesAchilles]

Most players coming into the L don’t give a shit about defense. That hardly proves your point.

Dejounte Murray and Derrick White were both good, and DJ made All D in year 2.
My point is that his defense isn’t going to be good his rookie year. It might be good later on his career, but for those claiming he’s going to come in and have this huge positive impact on defense are going to be in for a disappointment. DJ made his all nba his second year but everyone knew he wasn’t the best defender on the team. Just ask Chinook.

Castle will be coming off the bench. That’s probably the right play for him. Learning from CP3 is invaluable. But if Pop plays him as anything other than point guard then this was a waste of a pick.

[exstatic]

My point is that his defense isn’t going to be good his rookie year. It might be good later on his career, but for those claiming he’s going to come in and have this huge positive impact on defense are going to be in for a disappointment. DJ made his all nba his second year but everyone knew he wasn’t the best defender on the team. Just ask Chinook.

Castle will be coming off the bench. That’s probably the right play for him. Learning from CP3 is invaluable. But .if Pop plays him as anything other than point guard then this was a waste of a pick.

That’s a weird statement. One of his assets was the size to flex to multiple positions. You want him to play and learn the position, but most people who are not you feel that his defense should be on the floor even if there’s another PG already there.

As for Chinook, well, he certainly has opinions.

[exstatic]

My biggest thing about Castle's defense is learning how not to foul. He fouled a bit too much in college. He can get too aggressive with how he bodies and shoulders guys. Already he gets on the verge of pushing it and because Silver's fuck-ass rules give everything to the offensive player, it's a concern. When it works, however, Castle can really get guys off-balance and out of step by how he uses his chest and shoulders on defense without it appearing like he is. He's really strong.

If he can get that balance right, he's going to be a hell of a defender.

I think he was super aggressive knowing he would play limited minutes. He could probably get away with that for a year or two here, knowing he won’t be playing heavy minutes, but will eventually have to dial it back a notch.

[dn0774]

My biggest thing about Castle's defense is learning how not to foul. He fouled a bit too much in college. He can get too aggressive with how he bodies and shoulders guys. Already he gets on the verge of pushing it and because Silver's fuck-ass rules give everything to the offensive player, it's a concern. When it works, however, Castle can really get guys off-balance and out of step by how he uses his chest and shoulders on defense without it appearing like he is. He's really strong.

If he can get that balance right, he's going to be a hell of a defender.

I agree with this mostly, I would just add that there is something to be said for referees adjusting to certain players physicality in that they seem to let guys known for their physical defense get away with more (Draymond, Dillon Brooks types). Castle clearly enjoys a physical brand of basketball on both ends of the floor, I hope he maintains that mindset even though it will result in some fouling issues here and there, could pay off down the line for him.

[KobesAchilles]

That’s a weird statement. One of his assets was the size to flex to multiple positions. You want him to play and learn the position, but most people who are not you feel that his defense should be on the floor even if there’s another PG already there.

As for Chinook, well, he certainly has opinions.
Combo guards aren’t really what we need. He has great size for a PG. But that goes out the window when you put him as a SG. He can’t actually shoot so having him off ball isn’t really ideal. You want Castle to push the pace of the game, find Wemby as he runs the floor, hit open shooters, and play hard on defense.

The thing about Spurstalk is they really underestimate how hard it is to be a point guard. And a lot of people grew up on Manu so they think that since Manu was both a SG and ran our offense, all of our guards with size should be that way. And that’s not true. He is 19 and doesn’t know shit on how to play PG. He doesnt know how to lead a team, how run half court offense in the crunch, how and where Wemby likes the ball. His passes need to be crisper. He needs to be thinking 3 steps ahead on every play. His ball handling has to improve. Basically he needs to learn from scratch how to play PG.

And imo (and for some reason only my opinion) chasing 2 paths of playing while not being a master of one is stupidity. I said it with Lonnie. I said it with Sochan. I said it with Wemby to start the season. Give the youth a clear defined role at the start and don’t just fuck around with them. If you draft a PG then play him as PG. The Spurs have no idea how to develop positionless basketball. And that’s bc there isn’t such a thing. You need player who know what the fuck they are doing and what the role they have from day 1. Then you branch them out slowly to see what sticks

[z0sa]

Combo guards aren’t really what we need. He has great size for a PG. But that goes out the window when you put him as a SG. He can’t actually shoot so having him off ball isn’t really ideal. You want Castle to push the pace of the game, find Wemby as he runs the floor, hit open shooters, and play hard on defense.

The thing about Spurstalk is they really underestimate how hard it is to be a point guard. And a lot of people grew up on Manu so they think that since Manu was both a SG and ran our offense, all of our guards with size should be that way. And that’s not true. He is 19 and doesn’t know shit on how to play PG. He doesnt know how to lead a team, how run half court offense in the crunch, how and where Wemby likes the ball. His passes need to be crisper. He needs to be thinking 3 steps ahead on every play. His ball handling has to improve. Basically he needs to learn from scratch how to play PG.

And imo (and for some reason only my opinion) chasing 2 paths of playing while not being a master of one is stupidity. I said it with Lonnie. I said it with Sochan. I said it with Wemby to start the season. Give the youth a clear defined role at the start and don’t just fuck around with them. If you draft a PG then play him as PG. The Spurs have no idea how to develop positionless basketball. And that’s bc there isn’t such a thing. You need player who know what the fuck they are doing and what the role they have from day 1. Then you branch them out slowly to see what sticks

I agree. There's a handful of players ever who had size, could play multiple positions AND can also run the PG spot like a true PG would. They're also some of the best players to ever do it - Magic, Jordan, LeBron are the only names that immediately float to the top of my head (just worked a 20 hour shift, I know I'm missing plenty).

[dn0774]

I agree. There's a handful of players ever who had size, could play multiple positions AND can also run the PG spot like a true PG would. They're also some of the best players to ever do it - Magic, Jordan, LeBron are the only names that immediately float to the top of my head (just worked a 20 hour shift, I know I'm missing plenty).

Finding him pure PG minutes especially early on is going to be an adventure assuming CP3/Tre are taking all 48. That leaves Castle with some minutes at the 2/3 which isn't ideal given his inconsistent shooting (though I cant help but be a filthy optimist and hope he has some kind of Tyrese Maxey trajectory with regards to his shooting). I just hope the Spurs dont roll the proverbial ball out and say "lets see what you got" in actual game scenarios without any clearly defined role which suits his current abilities.

[exstatic]

I agree. There's a handful of players ever who had size, could play multiple positions AND can also run the PG spot like a true PG would. They're also some of the best players to ever do it - Magic, Jordan, LeBron are the only names that immediately float to the top of my head (just worked a 20 hour shift, I know I'm missing plenty).

Ron Harper
Brian Shaw
Manu

[Mr. Body]

I think he was super aggressive knowing he would play limited minutes. He could probably get away with that for a year or two here, knowing he won’t be playing heavy minutes, but will eventually have to dial it back a notch.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BaNeZn5r0cs

Oh, I think he'll learn the fine balance as he goes. In college, he pushed the line a bit and picked up fouls. I don't think it had to do with minutes, just play style.

In this video,

:52 an example of where he leans his body into the player without using his hands, forces a weaker player into a bad shot; see the subtle push he gives with his shoulder?
1:13 another bump, very subtle. I actually think this might get called sometimes in the NBA
1:27 a bump as the guy enters the lane. I think this will often get called in the NBA

And so on.

It's a really fine line and he's already really good at using his body without appearing to foul. Again, in today's NBA they baby offensive players to the extreme.

1:34 he uses his strength to wall up a posting guard who just can't do anything against him
2:04 this will be called a foul on him

Basically, he occupies so much space into the bodies of offensive players, and will crowd them. He's so strong that he wears out their energy trying to get their moves together, which often leads to these crazy misses. He's only 20 and causing a lot of problems for attacking guards. He'll learn how the NBA calls things nowadays, but how he uses his strength to guide, shift, absorb, bump, players is really good already, but he will get fouls called on him for a while as he learns.

Dude's just really strong for his position. He's often shedding defenders on drives because he's built like a tree.

[Mr. Body]

Another good example is at 3:58, where that's a foul in the NBA depending on where the ref sees the play. If they're at the side, no call. If they see where the camera view is, foul.

Again, he's so good at using his body to bump and shift these guys, just may need to learn the nuance.

[KingKev]

I’m tempering my expectations for Castle in year 1. I suspect he gets spot minutes across the 1-3 but I don’t think he will have the long leash that out youth has been given in recent years. Keldon, DV, Sochan, Primo, Branham and to a lesser extent Wesley all had long leashes and the ability to work through mistakes. With this team trying to win now and some competition at the backup 1/2 we might not see as much of him in year 1.

[Atl Spur]

My biggest thing about Castle's defense is learning how not to foul. He fouled a bit too much in college. He can get too aggressive with how he bodies and shoulders guys. Already he gets on the verge of pushing it and because Silver's fuck-ass rules give everything to the offensive player, it's a concern. When it works, however, Castle can really get guys off-balance and out of step by how he uses his chest and shoulders on defense without it appearing like he is. He's really strong.

If he can get that balance right, he's going to be a hell of a defender.

He wants to play defense at an elite level; I’m thinking he’ll figure it out.

[Atl Spur]

I’m tempering my expectations for Castle in year 1. I suspect he gets spot minutes across the 1-3 but I don’t think he will have the long leash that out youth has been given in recent years. Keldon, DV, Sochan, Primo, Branham and to a lesser extent Wesley all had long leashes and the ability to work through mistakes. With this team trying to win now and some competition at the backup 1/2 we might not see as much of him in year 1.
I’d be stunned if he doesn’t play a lot year one, Pop is gonna love this kid!

[KingKev]

I’d be stunned if he doesn’t play a lot year one, Pop is gonna love this kid!

Barring injury or a trade I don’t see where those minutes come from unless he beats out quite a few guys. He is a lock to backup Vassell for 15-20 mins a game but other than that will probably only see spot minutes elsewhere. Will also be competing with Wesley and Branham who still have defensive and 3 point shooting potential in spot minutes.

PG mins will be split between CP3/Tre Jones. 3 split between Barnes/Keldon. Vassell probably plays 32-34 mins at the 2.

[Mr. Body]

He wants to play defense at an elite level; I’m thinking he’ll figure it out.

Yeah. I guess my point is he's already using his body in ways that are really taxing on opposing guards, but he's going to have to crank it back and figure things out more. He's already really sneaky with how he manipulates attacking guards for his age.

[KobesAchilles]

If Castle can’t beat out Tre Jones for back up PG then that doesn’t bode well at all for him as a player. It would also be bullshit. Jones has one year left on his contract, has no future on this team, and is as developed as he’s ever going to become. Castle needs all the reps he can get, he’s the 4th fucking pick of the draft, and he’s guaranteed a future in this team for the next 5 years minimum. Castle should and better be getting all the point guard minutes that CP3 isn’t playing or else this shows our front office ineptitude again.

[BackHome]

Cp3 is 40 years old and doesn’t have a lot of tread left on his tire so yeah Castle will be getting minutes at PG. I would imagine that he averages around 15 to 18 minutes at PG and probably around 8 minutes at SG

[KingKev]

Cp3 is 40 years old and doesn’t have a lot of tread left on his tire so yeah Castle will be getting minutes at PG. I would imagine that he averages around 15 to 18 minutes at PG and probably around 8 minutes at SG

CP3 was averaging 26 mins last year in GS and >30 mins his 3years prior in Phoenix where he was still getting MVP votes. Not bad for a 39 year old. It’s been reported one of the main reasons he is coming here is because he wants to play and will be the starting PG which is his to lose. He is easily getting 25 minutes a night here. Tre Jones likely gets the rest if the minutes. PG minutes are largely spoken for barring injuries. No way a 19 yr old steps in from the jump and gets meaningful minutes when we are actually in win now mode. His PG development will come behind the scenes and in Austin; atleast for year 1.

[rankingtear]

Castle replaces Branham as a the two-man game partner of Wemby off the bench. Tre would still be the game manager of the second unit. There would be some Castle-Devin at the 2-3 in there as well, PG minutes would probably come next year or toward the end of this one. I think this is the optimal role for him for next season.

[John B]

I like Castle playing a Demar combo type if possible to get him out there and a chance at ROY. But Sheppard might get it though. The Rockets could make a lot of noise with their young crew, much like OKC, and Sheppard could make some dazzling shots. Damn I hate the Rockettes

[dn0774]

CP3 was averaging 26 mins last year in GS and >30 mins his 3years prior in Phoenix where he was still getting MVP votes. Not bad for a 39 year old. It’s been reported one of the main reasons he is coming here is because he wants to play and will be the starting PG which is his to lose. He is easily getting 25 minutes a night here. Tre Jones likely gets the rest if the minutes. PG minutes are largely spoken for barring injuries. No way a 19 yr old steps in from the jump and gets meaningful minutes when we are actually in win now mode. His PG development will come behind the scenes and in Austin; atleast for year 1.

The thought of the 4th pick in the draft by a 22 win team spending time in the G League isn't good, I hope it doesn't come to that. Hopefully Pop doesn't give him the "get over yourself" treatment for the first 2/3's of the season and actually lets him get significant run in meaningful games. This kid was a 5 star HS recruit that went to the National Champions to play a role that didn't feature his entire repertoire of skills by any stretch, he is "over himself" already.

[John B]

The thought of the 4th pick in the draft by a 22 win team spending time in the G League isn't good, I hope it doesn't come to that. Hopefully Pop doesn't give him the "get over yourself" treatment for the first 2/3's of the season and actually lets him get significant run in meaningful games. This kid was a 5 star HS recruit that went to the National Champions to play a role that didn't feature his entire repertoire of skills by any stretch, he is "over himself" already.

I agree. But the thing that keeps reminding me was Castle’s statement during the Pre-Draft, of wanting to be a PG. I wonder how much he changed since getting the call from Pop, and CP3 getting signed.

[KobesAchilles]

I agree. But the thing that keeps reminding me was Castle’s statement during the Pre-Draft, of wanting to be a PG. I wonder how much he changed since getting the call from Pop, and CP3 getting signed.
If anything, signing CP3 was a reaffirmation that Castle is playing PG this year. We draft a 19 year old PG and then sign a 40 year old vet to teach him the position from film, practice, the bench, and then actual play. And if Pop plays Jones over Castle at PG this year then he needs to be fired asap. Same if he sends him to Austin. Castle needs a clear define role coming in as the back up PG.

Then again, that’s what a competent organization would do. The Spurs…

[Ice009]

This is ridiculous. He's the 4th pick in the draft, and it's a 22 win team he's coming to. If he doesn't play, and play a decent amount, the Spurs drafting people/scouts need to be fired.


If anything, signing CP3 was a reaffirmation that Castle is playing PG this year. We draft a 19 year old PG and then sign a 40 year old vet to teach him the position from film, practice, the bench, and then actual play. And if Pop plays Jones over Castle at PG this year then he needs to be fired asap. Same if he sends him to Austin. Castle needs a clear define role coming in as the back up PG.

Then again, that’s what a competent organization would do. The Spurs…

Edit : I agree with this completely. He needs to play, otherwise, the guys in charge of drafting and/or possibly Pop (if he doesn't play him) need to be let go.

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

Castle can play with tre and cp3 in 2 pg sets. No reason he can't run sets as the primary ball handler and guard up on D

[Mr. Body]

Castle can play with tre and cp3 in 2 pg sets. No reason he can't run sets as the primary ball handler and guard up on D

Yep. I'm not sure why he's getting tabbed as full-time point or not. The Spurs' offense can have multiple points of entry, which is why it worked so well in the beautiful game era. While I don't think Sochan can become Diaw, or be a prime initiator, he can be a wing facilitator. Him aside, in a Castle-Wembanyama-Paul/Jones set, you have three guys who can set things in motion. Discovering that inverted pick-n-roll was pretty genius. Those inverted sets can evolve from there.

[KobesAchilles]

Everybody keeps bringing up the beautiful game argument but the fact is that team was incredibly smart. They were pretty much all foreign players who knew how to play the game and they were all vets. Our youth got to learn the system while being taught by like 10 guys

Thus Spurs team is a bunch idiots. They can’t run set plays. They are lazy on defense. They don’t communicate. They can’t even throw a damn inbound pass to their best player. We had one player last year who could run an actual pick n roll. Hell this team was so stupid they couldn’t really throw lob passes consistently to Wemby. Meanwhile Dallas threw over 60 to their center in just the playoffs alone. Forget the all time talent of Tim, Tony, and Manu- we just don’t have the intelligence

[exstatic]

Everybody keeps bringing up the beautiful game argument but the fact is that team was incredibly smart. They were pretty much all foreign players who knew how to play the game and they were all vets. Our youth got to learn the system while being taught by like 10 guys

Thus Spurs team is a bunch idiots. They can’t run set plays. They are lazy on defense. They don’t communicate. They can’t even throw a damn inbound pass to their best player. We had one player last year who could run an actual pick n roll. Hell this team was so stupid they couldn’t really throw lob passes consistently to Wemby. Meanwhile Dallas threw over 60 to their center in just the playoffs alone. Forget the all time talent of Tim, Tony, and Manu- we just don’t have the intelligence

Two: Trey, and Wemby on the inverted. Devin also wasn’t bad, although the volume was low.

[Mr. Body]

Everybody keeps bringing up the beautiful game argument but the fact is that team was incredibly smart. They were pretty much all foreign players who knew how to play the game and they were all vets. Our youth got to learn the system while being taught by like 10 guys

Thus Spurs team is a bunch idiots. They can’t run set plays. They are lazy on defense. They don’t communicate. They can’t even throw a damn inbound pass to their best player. We had one player last year who could run an actual pick n roll. Hell this team was so stupid they couldn’t really throw lob passes consistently to Wemby. Meanwhile Dallas threw over 60 to their center in just the playoffs alone. Forget the all time talent of Tim, Tony, and Manu- we just don’t have the intelligence

Yeah this is why they went and got two long time vets.

[KobesAchilles]

Yeah this is why they went and got two long time vets.
I agree. However Barnes is really the only one with experience of the beautiful game. CP3 has no idea how to play it. He has been pounding the air out of the bball for years. Golden St didn't even really run their offense with CP3 they went to him just running pick n roll every action. My problem with the youth is their inability to learn. That's what really separated Danny Green and Kawhi. They picked up on the offense so fast and by year 2 in the system, they looked like they had been running it their whole lives. I believe that was because of the vets that they learned this, but Manu, Tim, Tony, Boris were just basketball geniuses. And they helped guide the youth.

I think they step by step told everybody where to be and where they were looking to pass to. And the youth had no choice but to have accountability because we were a contender. That's why I'm hoping Victor is more vocal this year. He needs to tell everyone where to be on defense. He needs to demand the ball. He needs to hold everyone accountable and he needs to go to Pop and tell him to cuss him out during practice. It's way too much to ask a 20 year old. But imo, it's not his play that's going to bring us back to a contender but rather the intangibles as a leader. It's why Durant struggles as a 1. He doesn't like conflict. I think Victor thrives off of it. Well I hope anyways

[cutewizard]

"I see [Castle] fitting very well. And I say that with no problem. I've seen some exponential progression from him from one practice to the other. The way he learns is pretty impressive." Victor Wembanyama on Spurs rookie Stephen Castle.

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojkyYUgNbFo

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJJZ7Nim8eo

[Limguogolo]

"I see [Castle] fitting very well. And I say that with no problem. I've seen some exponential progression from him from one practice to the other. The way he learns is pretty impressive." Victor Wembanyama on Spurs rookie Stephen Castle.
Wise thoughts from a 20-year veteran on his 19-year junior.


(Very excited to see him play anyway. Defensively, he looks like a rock.)

[Pauleta14]

Wise thoughts from a 20-year veteran on his 19-year junior.


(Very excited to see him play anyway. Defensively, he looks like a rock.)

Reminds me last season's "Malaki is the best mid-range shooter I've ever seen..." :lol

[Atl Spur]

Castle will impress…. He’s a better pg/player than some of you expect!

[KingKev]

Castle will impress…. He’s a better pg/player than some of you expect!

Primo or Castle who you got?

[Atl Spur]

Castle

[spurs10]

Primo or Castle who you got? Castle for sure, but Primo probably wants to show us what he's got.

[ismael-robert]

And ur here for it

[John B]

Primo or Castle who you got?

Castle is what you’re hoping Primo would be

[DAF86]

Why only 11 minutes?

[Mr. Body]

Why only 11 minutes?

I see 19. No one went over 23 so that seems reasonable.

[Atl Spur]

His demeanor is tim Duncan-esque. Pop told us, he’s a good one!

[Atl Spur]

His demeanor is tim Duncan-esque. Pop told us, he’s a good one!

[DAF86]

I see 19. No one went over 23 so that seems reasonable.

The box score I'm looking at says 11 minutes for him. 35 for Keldon. :lol

What's the real numbers?

[exstatic]

The box score I'm looking at says 11 minutes for him. 35 for Keldon. :lol

What's the real numbers?

The box score on nba.com shows 18:30. That can probably be considered official.

[Atl Spur]

The change of pace he shows is elite….. his vision and defense are up there also ( just keep watching )

[Mr. Body]

His demeanor is tim Duncan-esque. Pop told us, he’s a good one!

No one seemed to congratulate him on the dunk, even when he went to the sideline. They seem to know he's not that dude.

[Atl Spur]

No one seemed to congratulate him on the dunk, even when he went to the sideline. They seem to know he's not that dude.

Nah, they just expect it after seeing it done so much in practice:) btw the whole bench jumped up

[LakerHater]

https://images4.imagebam.com/71/26/99/MEWGCN8_o.gif

[adonis827]

https://images4.imagebam.com/71/26/99/MEWGCN8_o.gif

postah!

[Mr. Body]

Nah, they just expect it after seeing it done so much in practice:) btw the whole bench jumped up

They definitely celebrated. But on the court and going to the bench no one dapped him or anything.

[John B]

Already a starter over Sochan if you ask me. I hope Pop starts him at 3 and get a chance at ROY.

[Atl Spur]

1st pg off the bench…..he’s gonna be a nightmare! Other pgs aren’t gonna be able to handle him in the post.