The Irregular Trebuchet of Stephon Castle

[Guru of Nothing]

Especially with Sochan missing time, wear this kid out.

[DAF86]

If only this kid could shoot it straight.

[LeBowen]

If only this kid could shoot it straight.

If he could, he would be playing with Trae.

[exstatic]

Really fucking solid game from Steph.

[Atl Spur]

If he could, he would be playing with Trae.

This is true!

[Mr. Body]

At this stage, really good handles for a rook. Good in tight spaces with the rock. Like, that bounce pass to Zach from about five feet away wasn't easy. And he sees passes you didn't expect him to see. That dump to Keldon at the end, for example.

Defense looks more than solid. More seasoning and adjusting to the game, he's going to be a strong defender.

[onechance87]

castle gotta work on that jumper if he cant get the 3 point going.

[cutewizard]

A wonderful performance by our Fearless Prince, Castle, in his starting job today

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qdbWu93vVg

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-CrWsGOy0Y

[cutewizard]

His passes are picture perfect...........

And his emotional state is STOIC.....

he could be a magnificent court general moving forward....

Hope the outside shooting improves...................

[Mr. Body]

Steph Castle before NBA draft: I'm really a point guard though

Basketball observers: ha ha nah man get real

Steph Castle playing NBA basketball: I'm really a point guard though

[Atl Spur]

I tried to tell some of you earlier…..just saying. He’s trying to settle in

[Manu-of-steel]

Steph is our best wing defender. He is being assigned to guard the other team's scorers. Kawhai-esque, in a way

[Raven]

once again a net positive when he plays the point, and just annoying when he plays any other position

[Raven]

Steph is our best wing defender. He is being assigned to guard the other team's scorers. Kawhai-esque, in a way
he. so. isn't.

[Bruno]

he pass the eye test to be our starting pg for the future?He cant shoot and is barely making plays cause his offense is so bad.My eye test
is telling me so far hes gonna need a few years to develop.

My view on Castle is that he is a damn great prospect. His combination of physical attributes, feel for the game, passing, defense, playmaking is something special.
There is the obvious weakness of his shot, but, if he can fix it to the point teams can't let him wide open behind the arc, he will be an above average starting PG in the NBA.

[ginobilized]

Castle has been awesome in adjusting to the NBA game. All signs point to him being well worth the 4th pick. His bball IQ alone elevates this squad of dullards.

WTF is up with NBA.com's rookie ranking leaving him out of the top 10? Seems like an oversight to me, but, I'm a Spurs homer to a fault.

[stnick2261]

Led the team in minutes (34:35) tonight. Loved it!!

[spursparker9]

Led the team in minutes (34:35) tonight. Loved it!!

Once Pop or Tre is back, he is back to <20mins

[onechance87]

Sucks we lost,Would of been a big confidence builder for castle.Hopefully he can do alot more of this.

[Manu-of-steel]

I love Castle seeking contact and going to the free throw line a lot. Loves defending. Jrue Holiday lite

[spursparker9]

There have been some calls that refs are swallowing their whistle. probably because Steph is a rookie

[Mr. Body]

There have been some calls that refs are swallowing their whistle. probably because Steph is a rookie

My problem is the bullshit calls they're giving him, the rookie ones.

[z0sa]

Castle with a 3 point stroke, even of average quality, is borderline all-star level

[TDomination]

Castle was great! I love his game. the spurs need his style badly.

[Atl Spur]

Ballin’

[KobesAchilles]

With Wby shooting 10 threes a game I’m not sure if I want Castle shooting a bunch a threes. That midrange game is going to be open all night long.

[CorrectCrusader]

With Wby shooting 10 threes a game I’m not sure if I want Castle shooting a bunch a threes. That midrange game is going to be open all night long.

Question, do y'all just expect young players to miraculously get better without game reps?

[exstatic]

With Wby shooting 10 threes a game I’m not sure if I want Castle shooting a bunch a threes. That midrange game is going to be open all night long.

I watched a breakdown of BI on YouTube. He’s elite from midrange, 47.5%, and he shoots 37% from 3. The points per shot attempt are, respectively, 0.95 and 1.11.

You don’t want to try to make a living in the mid range. Just over the span of 100 shots, even a slightly above average 3 point shooter will outscore an elite mid range shooter by 16 points. Mid range scoring is brutally inefficient.

[BackHome]

Question I know it is still early but based on what you all have seen and his progress would you still take a PG with our highest pick?

[gambit1990]

before the season started i was on record as saying castle should be the only one of the spurs’ young core that shouldn’t be on the trading block (outside of wemby, obviously) :tu


castle can ball. keep cp3, barnes, castle, wemby. make a big trade.

[onechance87]

Question I know it is still early but based on what you all have seen and his progress would you still take a PG with our highest pick?

Yup...Castle hasint proved to be a elite playmaker or shooter.But you can see the potential.Its still way early,But this team pretty much needs
to upgrade eveywhere.You take whoever the best player is.

[Vince Carter's ankle]

I watched a breakdown of BI on YouTube. He’s elite from midrange, 47.5%, and he shoots 37% from 3. The points per shot attempt are, respectively, 0.95 and 1.11.

You don’t want to try to make a living in the mid range. Just over the span of 100 shots, even a slightly above average 3 point shooter will outscore an elite mid range shooter by 16 points. Mid range scoring is brutally inefficient.
47.5% isn't elite
mid-range game opens up opportunities for drives into the paint and extra free throws
just look at SGA, Kawhi, Derozan and Embiid
and also a mid-range shot is much more reliable than a three-pointer in a clutch

https://www.amazon.com/Midrange-Theory-Seth-Partnow/dp/1629379212

"Star players breaking their man down and getting a tough two when their team needs a score. Among players with usage rates of 25% or higher, buckets are being gotten at or near all-time highs. In 1997–98, around 41% of these players’ made shots were unassisted two-pointers. In 2019, nearly 49% were self-created twos.
First, a select few players are so skilled and athletic that almost any shot they take is a good one. Kevin Durant is a prime example, but there are other examples, such as Chris Paul and Kawhi Leonard. Defenses allow these guys to get into their bag at their own peril.
The second aspect is psychological. Even most star players aren’t quite good enough to turn the midrange into an above-average shot. Nowitzki, without question one of the purist shooters of this or any other era, exceeded league average efficiency for all shots on his midrange attempts only three times in his career, and only in 2010–11 did he do so by a substantial margin, shooting 51.5% on twos outside of 10 feet against leaguewide 49.8% eFG%. But even getting close to average is enough to scare teams.
The sight of even lesser shooters making a couple of pull-ups can be enough to draw just enough extra attention to create seams in a defense. This help might be a mathematical mistake, but calling a star’s bluff when they are essentially saying, “If you don’t bring help, I’m going to beat you even from here” is a big ask.
The final prong is the shot clock. Twenty-four seconds is not that long, and even a “bad” shot is better than simply handing the ball to the ref when that time expires. Having a player who can bail out plays that don’t find anything better late in the clock is a big deal."


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEFwbuIcTlQ

[Mnky]

Question I know it is still early but based on what you all have seen and his progress would you still take a PG with our highest pick?

Absolutely. Castle was a great pick. Riss was the only other player over Castle at that point.

Castles shot and free throw look like a real player. The shot will develop. His vision is already above average. Decision making will get there with experience. Isnt afraid to attack. Plays great defense and effort. Was the best pg in the draft when you needed a pg. Can't complain. It's rare to get a pg who won't be a negative on the defensive side. He can also play with other pgs. Overall great pick.

[The Truth #6]

Most of his 3s came from the same spot on the floor. Maybe he's found his preference spot.

[cutewizard]

He is just starting

Give him one year to learn the NBA

Then rest and train.....

[Mr. Body]

It's both innate basketball knowledge and great UConn coaching, he knows how to attack disorganized defenses. When he made his private 2nd half run he was seeing how Utah wasn't getting set properly and went at them.

[John B]

I watched a breakdown of BI on YouTube. He’s elite from midrange, 47.5%, and he shoots 37% from 3. The points per shot attempt are, respectively, 0.95 and 1.11.

You don’t want to try to make a living in the mid range. Just over the span of 100 shots, even a slightly above average 3 point shooter will outscore an elite mid range shooter by 16 points. Mid range scoring is brutally inefficient.

But a combination is perfect especially on a pnr to pull defenders or dish open 3’s or open dunk.

[LeBowen]

But a combination is perfect especially on a pnr to pull defenders or dish open 3’s or open dunk.

Imo, primary ballhandlers who attack the basket need to have reliable mid-range shot and noone can convince me otherwise.
Castle looks like he's going to be an elite paint penetrator and scorer at the rim in a few years. He's already bullying guards as a rookie, when he develops his body opponents will have to put wings on him.
Rim protectors will be hesitant to step up and everyone will focus on not letting him get to the rim, especially if he keeps drawing fouls at this rate.

That's where pull up from FT line comes into play. Add that to his game and he'll be unstoppable, even as a low-30s 3pt shooter.
That's how most point guards who were poor shooters early on developed their game, no need to look further than DJ and Derrick.

[exstatic]

But a combination is perfect especially on a pnr to pull defenders or dish open 3’s or open dunk.

It should still be more weighted to 3s. Sometimes, as a change of pace, you should shoot a middie, or if the shot clock is running down.

[exstatic]

Imo, primary ballhandlers who attack the basket need to have reliable mid-range shot and noone can convince me otherwise.
Castle looks like he's going to be an elite paint penetrator and scorer at the rim in a few years. He's already bullying guards as a rookie, when he develops his body opponents will have to put wings on him.
Rim protectors will be hesitant to step up and everyone will focus on not letting him get to the rim, especially if he keeps drawing fouls at this rate.

That's where pull up from FT line comes into play. Add that to his game and he'll be unstoppable, even as a low-30s 3pt shooter.
That's how most point guards who were poor shooters early on developed their game, no need to look further than DJ and Derrick.

I not saying ZERO middiesfor BI, just more heavily weighted to 3s.

[LeBowen]

I not saying ZERO middiesfor BI, just more heavily weighted to 3s.

It will depend on roster construction, gameplan and the opposition. In some situations mid-range will be better, in others not so much.
I don't expect Castle to ever become a 25ppg scorer, so it won't really matter.
I'd say 5 3pta season average at the most.

[ginobilized]

Castle is looking great and a well-chosen pick at #4.
The way he plays, I only see him getting better and adding a new move or aspect to his game each year.
He's super smart, strong, fundamentally sound and processing the game better than many vets already.
It will take a ton of work, but, I believe the 3pt shot will come in a couple of years. It's all downhill from that point for him.

He's got to be near the top of the rookie class in points in the paint. That speaks volumes for a guard that doesn't use quickness, a lethal first step or speed to get into the paint.

[DAF86]

Q3SyY__pLTA?si=0LlBhfb9eXuAy50E

[baseline bum]

Question I know it is still early but based on what you all have seen and his progress would you still take a PG with our highest pick?

Yeah I'd still take him #4. With how poor the team's shooting has been if the Spurs had #3 Sheppard would certainly be tough to pass on and don't know which way I'd go there, but with Sheppard off the board Castle is still an easy call.

[Pauleta14]

It's not really a big deal imo that Castle doesn't have yet a reliable jump shot, it took time from TP take have one, the most important thing is that he keeps penetrating, provoking fouls and breaking defenses, which Cp3 or Tre can't do.

Stepon needs to start asap at the PG poition and Cp3 needs to lead the 2nd unit, with players a lot more compatible with his present skills and limitations.

[Mr. Body]

I'm surprised people would still take Sheppard over Castle. It seems pretty clear that Reed can't get the separation he needs to get his shot and struggles with players bigger and faster than him, which is pretty much everyone. If there's a defender nearby, no shot. Blake drove on him once and Blake was too big for him. That's saying something.

He'll be okay as a role-player as the Rockets build things to make him work, but he's not a guy who is going to do anything Castle does -- defend at a high level or activate an offense. I don't even know if he'll ever be able to do those things.

[paperboy77]

I watched a breakdown of BI on YouTube. He’s elite from midrange, 47.5%, and he shoots 37% from 3. The points per shot attempt are, respectively, 0.95 and 1.11.

You don’t want to try to make a living in the mid range. Just over the span of 100 shots, even a slightly above average 3 point shooter will outscore an elite mid range shooter by 16 points. Mid range scoring is brutally inefficient.

You're probably right technically but winning teams and great players, lasting players, are well rounded. I think there's a huge growing number of folks that cannot stand all the threes. Eventually the NBA will snap out of this 3 pointer stuff and let the defense actually be physical out there.

[paperboy77]

I'm surprised people would still take Sheppard over Castle. It seems pretty clear that Reed can't get the separation he needs to get his shot and struggles with players bigger and faster than him, which is pretty much everyone. If there's a defender nearby, no shot. Blake drove on him once and Blake was too big for him. That's saying something.

He'll be okay as a role-player as the Rockets build things to make him work, but he's not a guy who is going to do anything Castle does -- defend at a high level or activate an offense. I don't even know if he'll ever be able to do those things.

I haven't heard a single take of Shepard over Castle lately. At least not even close to a lot.

[Pauleta14]

I'm surprised people would still take Sheppard over Castle. It seems pretty clear that Reed can't get the separation he needs to get his shot and struggles with players bigger and faster than him, which is pretty much everyone. If there's a defender nearby, no shot. Blake drove on him once and Blake was too big for him. That's saying something.

He'll be okay as a role-player as the Rockets build things to make him work, but he's not a guy who is going to do anything Castle does -- defend at a high level or activate an offense. I don't even know if he'll ever be able to do those things.


On ST?

Other than copping rockettes fans, I haven't heard that

[baseline bum]

I'm surprised people would still take Sheppard over Castle. It seems pretty clear that Reed can't get the separation he needs to get his shot and struggles with players bigger and faster than him, which is pretty much everyone. If there's a defender nearby, no shot. Blake drove on him once and Blake was too big for him. That's saying something.

He'll be okay as a role-player as the Rockets build things to make him work, but he's not a guy who is going to do anything Castle does -- defend at a high level or activate an offense. I don't even know if he'll ever be able to do those things.

Didn't say I'd take Sheppard, I said it would be tough to pass on him. Would be incredibly tough to pass on Castle too at 3. Though it was an easy call for Houston since they already have a higher upside version of Castle in Thompson.

[LeBowen]

Didn't say I'd take Sheppard, I said it would be tough to pass on him. Would be incredibly tough to pass on Castle too at 3. Though it was an easy call for Houston since they already have a higher upside version of Castle in Thompson.

Considering the way PATFO is roster building over the past years, I don't think they would've taken Sheppard at #4 even if Rockets took Castle.
They're all in on guards with size and defensive upside. Unless a guard shows offensive engine potential, PATFO isn't drafting him.

As I said the other day, I'm hoping to see Castle/Devin/Champagnie/Barnes/Wemby lineup while Jeremy is injured.
But knowing our coaching staff, the ball will be taken away from Castle and he'll always share the floor with CP3 or Tre.

[RC_Drunkford]

Imo, primary ballhandlers who attack the basket need to have reliable mid-range shot and noone can convince me otherwise.
Castle looks like he's going to be an elite paint penetrator and scorer at the rim in a few years. He's already bullying guards as a rookie, when he develops his body opponents will have to put wings on him.
Rim protectors will be hesitant to step up and everyone will focus on not letting him get to the rim, especially if he keeps drawing fouls at this rate.

That's where pull up from FT line comes into play. Add that to his game and he'll be unstoppable, even as a low-30s 3pt shooter.
That's how most point guards who were poor shooters early on developed their game, no need to look further than DJ and Derrick.

If you ask me he's already pretty solid from midrange. Plenty of times he drove to the rim, stopped and shot a midrange jumper this season. He'll only gonna get better at it with more game reps.

[exstatic]

Like, what's Castles semi realistic ceiling? If everything went well, his broken shot becomes good for example, without going into extremes. His defense is Smart level. What player do you think Castle becomes?

Bigger Jrue.

[RC_Drunkford]

Here's a documentary on his UConn year


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2P5DQueqKU

[Vince Carter's ankle]

Like, what's Castles semi realistic ceiling? If everything went well, his broken shot becomes good for example, without going into extremes. His defense is Smart level. What player do you think Castle becomes?
Kawhi with playmaking and without uncle

[KobesAchilles]

Question, do y'all just expect young players to miraculously get better without game reps?
For Wemby or Castle? I’m confused. For Wemby I don’t think he needs to be shooting that many threes. For Castle, I’d rather he take open threes of a guard goes under the screen. Not a lot but enough to keep them honest. Tbh I feel like having a midrange is crazy important for the playoffs.

[baseline bum]

Bigger Jrue.

I don't think Bigger Jrue is his ceiling; it's a good case for him, but I think his best case is a second star on a title contender.

[Dejounte]

IMO, he looks a little bit like Doncic and a little bit like Harden. It should come to no surprise— he has said he’s trying to emulate Doncic and was excited for their matchup in game 1.

[CGD]

Yeah, Jimmer v Castle was never a debate tbh.

[Mr. Body]

Those who have said Jrue Holiday and Jimmy Butler I think have it right, in terms of playstyle. Gets into people's physical space like Jrue as a defender (this is getting him fouls, so he'll adjust), and physical and deliberate on offense like Butler. I think his midrange will come on pretty soon.

[playbonner15]

Yeah, Jimmer v Castle was never a debate tbh.

LMAO Didn't ST have a Jimmer dude posting updates on all things Jimmer? I think it was his wife or something

[NASpurs]

Hopefully Pop doesn't get in the way and stunt his growth with some bullshit like playing him at center or something.

[gilmor2002]

Hopefully Pop doesn't get in the way and stunt his growth with some bullshit like playing him at center or something.

Dont think Pop will make it back to coaching..

[TheBallsbreakers]

Dont think Pop will make it back to coaching..
Sauce? I mean, source?

[spurraider21]

LMAO Didn't ST have a Jimmer dude posting updates on all things Jimmer? I think it was his wife or something
spurtacular

he also posted here with 40+ alts, was banned, and started his own bootleg spurstalk where he just talks to himself

[cutewizard]

Two straight years

Two very good picks in Wemby and Castle

Excited for year Three, hehehe

[onechance87]

Two straight years

Two very good picks in Wemby and Castle

Excited for year Three, hehehe

i mean wemby was the obvious pick for that draft.

[mudyez]

I have to admid, that I was a Sheppard guy...just coz of pure fear he could be something like a white Mass Effect Spash Brother.

Right now I feel great about Castle and would not trade him for any other player in this draft (or only Risacher to please Wemby)...and I like the idea of having 5 good defenders on the court at all time or at least fantastic defenders within the starters.

[spursparker9]

If Spurs had the 3rd pick, you guys think they would still select Castle? Or maybe roll the dice with Curry-lite/Nash-lite Sheppard?

[Mr. Body]

If Spurs had the 3rd pick, you guys think they would still select Castle? Or maybe roll the dice with Curry-lite/Nash-lite Sheppard?

I personally think they were in in Castle all season. I'm not sure they scouted Kentucky the way they did UConn.

[Pauleta14]

I have to admid, that I was a Sheppard guy...just coz of pure fear he could be something like a white Mass Effect Spash Brother.

Right now I feel great about Castle and would not trade him for any other player in this draft (or only Risacher to please Wemby)...and I like the idea of having 5 good defenders on the court at all time or at least fantastic defenders within the starters.

Love and happy with Castle too but Risacher I would hesitate tbh and not just for Wemby.

It's just a matter of patience with him, he has it all, still a child and needs to build his physique but I'm really impressed by his all around game even if he shoots like crap for now.

[John B]

If Spurs had the 3rd pick, you guys think they would still select Castle? Or maybe roll the dice with Curry-lite/Nash-lite Sheppard?

Castle is who they wanted Primo to be (even taking a big gamble for that promise), a big defensive PG who can facilitate and score. It’s been in their plan to get such a player, and Castle fits that player perfectly, especially once he improved his outside shot. Likewise, they always want a Boris Diaw big man who can push the ball and facilitate. Samanic was going to be it if he had a heart, that’s why the Sochan PG experiment to turn him into a Diaw/Kawhi type. Bassey has the potential of a passing Center, i.e. Center, but let’s see.

So I believe the Spurs have those types of players they are looking for to fit that “beautiful game”. Sheppard as a as a knockdown shooter like Green, Neal, Mills fit the role. If there was a way to trade up to get both, I think they would’ve done so but not too high of an expense.

[Pauleta14]

If even Spurs fans underrate Boris Diaw... :lol

In what world can Sochan come even close to the type of player Boris was...??

Boris stengths come from everything Sochan isn't and doesn't have, High BBIQ (IQ period), elite fundamentals, court vision and passing abilities etc

And vice versa, Boris didn't have Sochan's grit and love for defending man to man.

[DAF86]

Castle is who they wanted Primo wanted to be (even taking a big gamble for that promise), a big defensive PG who can not facilitate and score. It’s been in their plan to get such a player, and Castle fits that player perfectly, especially once he improved his outside shot. Likewise, they always want a Boris Diaw big man who can push the ball and facilitate. Samanic was going to be it if he had a heart, that’s why the Sochan PG experiment to turn him into a Diaw/Kawhi type. Bassey has the potential of a passing Center, i.e. Center, but let’s see.

So I believe the Spurs have those types of players they are looking for to fit that “beautiful game”. Sheppard as a as a knockdown shooter like Green, Neal, Mills fit the role. If there was a way to trade up to get both, I think they would’ve done so but not too high of an expense.

Mmmh, what? :lol Castle can do both, tbh.

[John B]

Mmmh, what? :lol Castle can do both, tbh.

It was a typo, I corrected myself

[RC_Drunkford]

Sochan ain‘t Diaw, but I agree he’s what they wanted Samanic to be and Castle is the type they saw in Primo (I have no idea what they saw in that idiot)

[CGD]

Didn’t appreciate that Castle is listed as taller than Dev and Keldon. Think he could def become the starting 3 with a better shot, allowing the spurs to go after their PG in the coming draft (Harper, French kid).

[Vince Carter's ankle]

If Spurs had the 3rd pick, you guys think they would still select Castle? Or maybe roll the dice with Curry-lite/Nash-lite Sheppard?
I don't think this is a good comparison
Sheppard hasn't shown that he can create a shot for himself or his teammates

[jesterbobman]

If the shot comes around, Castle becoming a Jrue / Jimmy hybrid is realistic. He's fouling a bit (and, marginal calls aren't going his way), little steps in recognition by him and refs (Oh, he didn't foul, he's just strong as hell and they bounced off his chest) are a step up that could add a lot of value.

Biggest value is probably if he can be a PG who can switch 1-3 against most squads, and he'll probably be big enough for that and some 4's (eg, could guard Harrison Barnes and in general a bunch of wing 3/4 types, probably don't want him on Julius Randle / Evan Mobley at the 4).

I was higher on Reed (Reed and Sarr 1 & 2, Castle 3) pre draft than him, don't think you can realistically judge completely based on 10 games (Castle better) / summer league (Reed was better). I still would probably take Reed, as shooting is so valuable and we don't really have any, but that might be wrong - Castle has definitely looked better in NBA minutes (particularly, the PG skills, which weren't used much in College given the team had two good old guards and he played off ball, have removed a question mark).

[LeBowen]

If the shot comes around, Castle becoming a Jrue / Jimmy hybrid is realistic. He's fouling a bit (and, marginal calls aren't going his way), little steps in recognition by him and refs (Oh, he didn't foul, he's just strong as hell and they bounced off his chest) are a step up that could add a lot of value.

Biggest value is probably if he can be a PG who can switch 1-3 against most squads, and he'll probably be big enough for that and some 4's (eg, could guard Harrison Barnes and in general a bunch of wing 3/4 types, probably don't want him on Julius Randle / Evan Mobley at the 4).

I was higher on Reed (Reed and Sarr 1 & 2, Castle 3) pre draft than him, don't think you can realistically judge completely based on 10 games (Castle better) / summer league (Reed was better). I still would probably take Reed, as shooting is so valuable and we don't really have any, but that might be wrong - Castle has definitely looked better in NBA minutes (particularly, the PG skills, which weren't used much in College given the team had two good old guards and he played off ball, have removed a question mark).

Good post, but I disagree on Reed take.
As important as shooting is, in these last playoffs we've seen that defense is just as important. Traffic cone shooters can't get any minutes anymore, much like non-shooters. If we're to contend, we can't have one-way player unless it's one of those offensive engines who can carry a team.
Reed will be a good player, but people will see him as a disappointment just because he was in a weak draft class. Getting someone like Reed with late lottery pick is fine, but he probably won't be up to #3 pick standard.
My biggest issue with him isn't even the defense, but that he's got no self-creation.

[Mr. Body]

I repeat myself and should probably stop, but if you watched Sheppard in college, you'd see the same problems as now, which are amplified due to better athletes. He has bad handles for his position. This will improve, but they're still not good. He has little shift or bake to his game, and he's slow, so can't juke players or craft himself into better positions.

He's easy to close down because he's small and can't take guys with his quickness or handles. (He's also hesitant even when a fraction open, so will need to launch away.) So teams don't really have to pay a ton of attention to him so far. Just keep a player nearby.

As a passer, he's terrific as a connector and if he can get on the move makes the right play. He is not an initiator. The Rox may develop him within a pic-n-roll system but right now he can't dribble well enough and he's too slow, so would get jammed.

On defense, his hands are terrific. He has an innate sense of where to be, so can get rebounds and is smart so can make his reads and slide. But he's so small that nearly everyone dwarfs him, has little strength, and his quickness is a big problem here, too. He can't stay with better players. This is where his great hands can help, but I fear that teams will start hunting him. I can't imagine him getting switched onto a Doncic or a LeBron.

Honestly, I don't see a huge window forward for him. I think he can be a good role player once he gets less fearful about his shots. Obviously things change if he shoots as well as he did in college, but I think Houston will need to cover for him a lot. And he'll need to really bury himself in ball-handling drills.

[RC_Drunkford]

1853455160300720457

[Pauleta14]

Didn’t appreciate that Castle is listed as taller than Dev and Keldon. Think he could def become the starting 3 with a better shot, allowing the spurs to go after their PG in the coming draft (Harper, French kid).

Why go for Traore if Castle shows so much promises?

Let him build his game as our starting PG, that's who he wants to be anyway and he has everything we're looking for (assuming he develops his 3pt shooting of course)

Next draft we need a wing who can shoot

[jesterbobman]

Generic thing in process - Sometimes, players are miss evaluated as prospects in high school, and formerly low ranked guys end up really good in the NBA (Derrick White as the prime example, Reed was relatively low ranked and could have been missed). Bayesian scouting would consider both that possibility and he was just missed and he is as good as the College player awesome, and the fact that he may be a 42% shooter who played above his head for a year, and that influenced his draft slot.

For me, Reed was #1 analytics based pick based on just the year in College/ his age, had a weak level of burst and was best as a super connector next to a primary wing/ what I thought Haliburton would be coming in (I liked Hali, but he's been much better than I expected), and didn't want to underrate someone's PG ability as they seemed best as a secondary creator. Overcorrecting on mistakes. Might be a process error for me.

Castle was a mid - late lottery stats pick, moved up to me based on high school ranking pedigree (somewhat overcoming college stats / lack of PG time) and the fact that on tape, he knew what he was doing, was willing to play a role / out of position on a really good team, and he seemed like a monster defensively who stonewalled opponents but didn't generate steals, so he was better than the numbers indicate. There was, and is doubt on his shot, and I wasn't sure of the fit alongside Wemby on offense. I still really wanted the Spurs to pick him when on the board at 4, and thought he was ahead of Holland, Matas / Cody etc as a wing bet.

[couchman]

That shooting stroke is looking better!
Giving me hope.
Improving to league avg shooting could be the difference between bench player and all-star.
It’s a very dynamic range.

[Mr. Body]

It's hard to express how fucking smart he is as a player. I don't think we're even fully seeing it yet. Yeah, he's making mistakes but he doesn't really repeat them. But what he does is instantly read changes on the court. Like, he got a steal on a kickout when he saw that was the only pass possible - he was coming across even before Sabonis (?) knew he was going to pass it.

[R. DeMurre]

I don't think Bigger Jrue is his ceiling; it's a good case for him, but I think his best case is a second star on a title contender.


Isn't that what Jrue was the year the Bucks won their title?

[DAF86]

PhFP4PuHzgM?si=Cc_FCiRPqq2d22LD

[DAF86]

The kid is doing great but man, some of those misses are uuugly. Not two shots look the same. I can't quite put my finger into what it is. Is it mechanical, is it mental? Give me just league average % and we have a beast in our hands.

[playbonner15]

Likewise, they always want a Boris Diaw big man who can push the ball and facilitate. Samanic was going to be it if he had a heart, that’s why the Sochan PG experiment to turn him into a Diaw/Kawhi type. Bassey has the potential of a passing Center, i.e. Center, but let’s see.

Is that what they're developing Cissoko into? But Sidy's offensive game is rough

[John B]

Is that what they're developing Cissoko into? But Sidy's offensive game is rough

Sidy is 6’6, not a big man but a defensive G/SF like DWhite if only he could shoot.

[baseline bum]

PhFP4PuHzgM?si=Cc_FCiRPqq2d22LD

Damn that hezzy at 1:40

[playbonner15]

Damn that hezzy at 1:40

That's the Castle "Hesi Freeze" :lol

[Atl Spur]

The kid is doing great but man, some of those misses are uuugly. Not two shots look the same. I can't quite put my finger into what it is. Is it mechanical, is it mental? Give me just league average % and we have a beast in our hands.

It’s just year one, 11 games; give him two years and we’ll revisit. Dude is light years ahead of expectations

[cutewizard]

Next year is absolutely critical for the first Wemby crown.....

..they must absolutely nail those first round picks

No room for error.....

[TimmyBuckets]

He's got a solid base on D, can be mobile, has decent strength, and, on offense, he can go in, has good athleticism, a good release on his shot, and has a great motor on both sides. He's a great pick. Glad we chose the right guy.

[TheBallsbreakers]

He's got a solid base on D, can be mobile, has decent strength, and, on offense, he can go in, has good athleticism, a good release on his shot, and has a great motor on both sides. He's a great pick. Glad we chose the right guy.
I... do not believe you.
PATFO and the org are supposed to be CLUELESS.

[Ice009]

The kid is doing great but man, some of those misses are uuugly. Not two shots look the same. I can't quite put my finger into what it is. Is it mechanical, is it mental? Give me just league average % and we have a beast in our hands.

I guess I haven't watched his shooting form closely enough and/or how the shots come out, but I remember back in the day (don't remember if it was just before they hired Chip or just after, but they said Tony's shots were snowflakes (no two shots were alike). From just watching during a game without rewinding to watch closer, it doesn't appear to me that Steph's shots are like that, but in the short amount of time to start the season so far, his misses do seem to be all over the place. It's not always back rim, or short /front of rim or anything like that.

[Raven]

If Spurs had the 3rd pick, you guys think they would still select Castle? Or maybe roll the dice with Curry-lite/Nash-lite Sheppard?

the moment castle showed he can make more than a triple per game, it was settled, spurs would have picked him #1

[CorrectCrusader]

The kid is doing great but man, some of those misses are uuugly. Not two shots look the same. I can't quite put my finger into what it is. Is it mechanical, is it mental? Give me just league average % and we have a beast in our hands.

That's lack of reps.

[RC_Drunkford]

according to Wemby Castle said after his 4th preseason game that "the game is slowing down for him". Wemby is saying "WTF? It took me 50 games" :lol


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRxge1uSQso

[cutewizard]

Castlevania is coming!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

--------------------------------------------------------------------


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oG2KDl2W7io

[DAF86]

UfgnfAntROM?si=cm0cI240xWZB-B78

[TimmehC]

He got torched by Poole. First time he's looked bad defensively tbh

[Pauleta14]

He got torched by Poole. First time he's looked bad defensively tbh

What Pop used to say regarding Wemby last season works for Stephon this one, he's discovering every games new players, now he knows Poole, his habbits, "bag" etc and will be much better next time they meet.

And he's not the only one who got cooked, Cp3 as well many times

[Mugen]

I thought Wemby's help defense was actually pretty poor last night after he was starting to cook offensively.

That was a big part of why Castle struggled against Poole. But yeah, definitely a good teaching moment for the rookie.

[tim_duncan_fan]

Bro is gonna be a nightmare by the end of year two. He's going to add 4ppg off not missing bunnies alone.

[Mr. Body]

Did you see him look-away Reaves when he barely crossed half court on a break? He looked off to the corner, it leaned Reaves there, and it got Collins straight under the basket.

Kid is a smart, smart player. That's not even smart, it's pure basketball instinct.

[CorrectCrusader]

Did you see him look-away Reaves when he barely crossed half court on a break? He looked off to the corner, it leaned Reaves there, and it got Collins straight under the basket.

Kid is a smart, smart player. That's not even smart, it's pure basketball instinct.

I remember when Matas Buzelis was on Paul Georges podcast and said that Castle was the best passer he's ever played with.

[Chomag]

The kid is ready for the big boy minutes, play him

[Manu-of-steel]

Castle is fearless. Even with Lebron or even AD on his heels, he attacked the rim ferociously. He'a baller! A+++++ for the Spurs for taking him.

[LeBowen]

Exponential growth over the past month.
His development needs to be #2 priority this season. After Wemby's, obviously.
Dropping his minutes below 30 even when everyone gets healthy would be a crime against basketball.
Has all the tools to develop into Wemby's co-star.

[Mugen]

BWrong with b2b good top 5 picks tbh :lol

[timtonymanu]

BWrong with b2b good top 5 picks tbh :lol

Castle more than made up the Primo fuck up honestly. He is everything PATFO tried to convince us Primo was.

[Mugen]

Castle more than made up the Primo fuck up honestly. He is everything PATFO tried to convince us Primo was.

Castle might be their best non-Wemby pick since Nephew tbh.

[couchman]

Shooting is the one thing I’ve had my doubts about but Castle is doing everything well right now!
Gotta give props

[onechance87]

Shooting is the one thing I’ve had my doubts about but Castle is doing everything well right now!
Gotta give props

same....hope he can keep it up.

[CGD]

Castle might be their best non-Wemby pick since Nephew tbh.

Easily

[DAF86]

d1bYRvASQKE?si=E3fqeem-NzX5lc-u

[Ice009]

Great game from Steph. Sucks that his missed that last shot, but it was a tough shot. He should be getting even more minutes. No idea why Blake Wesley is even playing. He looked terrible against the Lakers and good teams in general. He should only play the 5-10 minutes or so that Steph can't play.

[RC_Drunkford]

this is kid is so good. Shooting 48% from 3 in the last 4 games. Most likely not sustainable, he shoots 28% for the season. I'm pretty confident he can get over 30% this season. One offseason to work on his shot should be enough to make him a capable shooter.

[spursparker9]

He got good shot to be ROY if he can remain as starter.

But unlikely with Sochan and Vassell taking his spot soon as I don't think Mitch dare to move Vets like Barnes or CP3 to the bench.

[Dejounte]

d1bYRvASQKE?si=E3fqeem-NzX5lc-u
He almost fucked his knees up at 4:20. He needs to lighter on them

[TheBallsbreakers]

He got good shot to be ROY if he can remain as starter.

But unlikely with Sochan and Vassell taking his spot soon as I don't think Mitch dare to move Vets like Barnes or CP3 to the bench.
Barnes probably wouldn't mind moving to the bench. He's a pro.

[quentin_compson]

More often than not, he already looks like a decent NBA player, which is very impressive for a 20-year old rookie. Obviously, we'll have to see how his shooting will come along and what kind of offensive gravity he will develop, but overall, early returns are very positive for Castle.

[spursparker9]

Anyone noticed that Castle's 3 are often more than a couple steps behind 3 point line

[exstatic]

Anyone noticed that Castle's 3 are often more than a couple steps behind 3 point line

His shot are either pure, or almost miss the backboard. There not a lot of in between, shots that just hit the rim and go out.

[Mr. Body]

https://youtu.be/3cekutX5iHc?si=KwvI-eCV6lgU5L0L

Three plays stood out among the others, worth just mentioning.

0:55 - Vassell is sort of in jail, with the obvious kick to Collins to recycle the play. He can't get the pass to Castle. Stephon slides along the baseline; he sees the paint is open because the help hasn't reacted and AD is up with Collins. He stays in the right spot for Dev to make the pass. This isn't a brilliant read, but it's a very good one, and I think some rooks might stick on the 3pt line. What stands out to me is how fast Castle sees that the basket is completely open. He's leading Vassell by his movement to indicate the play is there.

1:18 - Again, not necessarily brilliant, but a bit eye-popping of a pass. Castle sees the way Collins is running actually seals LeBron and starts making the pass before Collins is actually there: he's just knowing the way James is standing and looking that he won't get there. LeBron is even surprised. It's a pretty heady pass and placed right in Zach's pocket where only he can get it. And a bounce, so he can handle it while moving at his own pace.

1:55 - This pass is legit pretty brilliant. I don't fully know what Castle plans, but he's already making a pass at the half-court line. Reaves thinks Collins is covered by AD, which is a fair assumption, and thinks the danger is the wing three, so is moving out there. But the ball is soaring into Collins' hands. It really looks like this was Stephon's pass all along, so he's looking off a defender all the way from half court and making a fairly difficult pin-point pass for an easy score.

The speed of these reads and innate sense of where players are looking, leaning, and how he's reading their likely tendencies -- that's just superb level stuff.

[tim_duncan_fan]

Will the fandom have separate camps for Castle and Devin, like with Manu and Tony?

[The Truth #6]

I think Castle playing well and with he having the ball in his hands more now will actually help Devin more than hurt him.

[ginobilized]

Castle is so solid and just beginning to find his way and shows us what he can do at this level.
His alley-oops to Wemby have a lot less oops in them than last season's attempts.

[Raven]

very easy to root for this guy. Unfortunately, he needs to work on his D in the post, as fast guards blow past him and strong guards bully him. He has all the tools, he just needs to know sooner when they are going for the penetration.

[quentin_compson]

Will the fandom have separate camps for Castle and Devin, like with Manu and Tony?

If that happens, I hope the two of them will keep having the same hairdos.

[Russo21]

If that happens, I hope the two of them will keep having the same hairdos.

Are you kidding? As much as i love Steph they're the goofiest looking guys in the league. They're like furry mop heads. Grab them by the feet and mop the floor with them. Half the team need a haircut

[emanueldavidginobili]

Outside of Wemby is Castle the best ALL AROUND rookie Spurs have had since Timmy?

[Uriel]

Outside of Wemby is Castle the best ALL AROUND rookie Spurs have had since Timmy?
I mean, the guy in your username was pretty good too.

[DAF86]

Outside of Wemby is Castle the best ALL AROUND rookie Spurs have had since Timmy?

Manu, easily.

[cutewizard]

Absolutely fascinating block today hahahaah

[tim_duncan_fan]

SC has a lot of work to do. Made some bad plays and some good ones. But he looks decent and already and primed to grow further. He should be a monster eventually.

Gotta mix in some more middies though.

[DAF86]

Castle fucked up a lot on that 4th quarter, but I'm loving the trust Mitch is giving him, I'm not sure Pop would be doing the same. Even with CP3 on the court, SC5 was the one bringing the ball up and initiating the offense. These reps are irreplaceable for his development.

[Mr. Body]

Castle is bigger than a lot of shooting guards.

Like, if you run him point, which I think they'll do once Paul moves on, there's so much you can do.

[DAF86]

Castle is bigger than a lot of shooting guards.

Like, if you run him point, which I think they'll do once Paul moves on, there's so much you can do.

I want to see him on some post ups. With his size, strength, footwork and foul-drawing ability I think there's a lot to explore there. Also, his passing from there could be special.

[DAF86]

dsmDDKm3neE?si=yvKXbeSoDxw3QSnA

[cutewizard]

Growing right before our eyes......

[spursparker9]

How did Castle end up with a +15 and 7 TOs :lol

Usually if you have so many TOs, you should have a -30 or something

[exstatic]

How did Castle end up with a +15 and 7 TOs :lol

Usually if you have so many TOs, you should have a -30 or something

+/- only deals with point differential when you’re on the court. TOS can affect that,but they don’t directly feed into the stat.

[Pauleta14]

Castle fucked up a lot on that 4th quarter, but I'm loving the trust Mitch is giving him, I'm not sure Pop would be doing the same. Even with CP3 on the court, SC5 was the one bringing the ball up and initiating the offense. These reps are irreplaceable for his development.

I think Pop would 100% use him as much and is probably behind this idea.

Forget the clichés about Pop's history on rookies's PT, 1st Castle is a lottery pick, not 21st and more importantly Spurs don't have anyone capable of bringing what Stephon brings in terms of size, perimeter defence and penetrations.

I'm not surprised at all, even when Vassell and Jeremy come back, he'll still be indispensable with this roster, despite his poor shooting.

He's just ridiculously in advance, I'm shocked by his demeanour and poise. He seems even more mature than Wemby

[Manu-of-steel]

Couldn't agree more. This is of great help for his development

[tim_duncan_fan]

He needs a floater, a middie, and to stay around 36% on threes and he'll be KILLER.

[RC_Drunkford]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThNDphMuxLI&amp;t=5481s

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FAPKTiDAJA

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sC0XyacqBcY

[Knoxxx]

I’m smart enough to know at least these minutes Castle is getting are huge for his growth.


https://www.nba.com/spurs/videos/stephon-castle-vs-utah-jazz-i-11-21-24

[cutewizard]

This wonderful song is dedicated to our Fearless Prince, Stephon Castle >>>>>>>

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lruByK9lmVE&amp;list=RDlruByK9lmVE&amp;start_radio =1

[gilmor2002]

The point about Castle is not so much what he is lacking; it's his attitude and his posture. You know in an instant, this kid is special; and will only gets better as time progresses

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8Sia1zoavk

[TheBallsbreakers]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8Sia1zoavk
That last dunk was filthy!
Loving Wesley's reaction on the bench.

[TimmehC]

This dude has next level awareness and decisiveness. Like before he even touches the ball he knows what he wants to do. And on one of those transition plays, he's running the other way before we even get the steal. Just incredible, and the teams that drafted in front of us were dumbfoundingly stupid tbh.

[CGD]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThNDphMuxLI&amp;t=5481s

Really fair analysis of Castle here.

[Mr. Body]

This dude has next level awareness and decisiveness. Like before he even touches the ball he knows what he wants to do. And on one of those transition plays, he's running the other way before we even get the steal. Just incredible, and the teams that drafted in front of us were dumbfoundingly stupid tbh.

When you hear draft gurus and basketball scouts talk about processing speed, this is it. The ability to see changing circumstances extremely fast. In the NBA those microseconds are huge.

[Mugen]

Very impressed with Castle so far this season, has exceeded my expectations.

Still, I don't know if he has the foot speed nor the shooting ability to become the lead guard long term. I don't think having him on the roster should preclude the Spurs from drafting a true PG in next year's draft if that's who the BPA is when it's their turn.

[tim_duncan_fan]

Very impressed with Castle so far this season, has exceeded my expectations.

Still, I don't know if he has the foot speed nor the shooting ability to become the lead guard long term. I don't think having him on the roster should preclude the Spurs from drafting a true PG in next year's draft if that's who the BPA is when it's their turn.

I'm not too concerned about the footspeed. He seems to be able to get to the interior with a screen. The shooting definitely needs to improve though. It isn't lost on me that he really doesn't want to shoot unless he is damn-near standing under the backboard and that is getting his shot blocked a lot.

Once he mixes in a mid-range jumper, he should be more than solid, and if he can keep his 3-point clip to 36% he should be very formidable, even if he isn't Tony Parker fast.

[exstatic]

Very impressed with Castle so far this season, has exceeded my expectations.

Still, I don't know if he has the foot speed nor the shooting ability to become the lead guard long term. I don't think having him on the roster should preclude the Spurs from drafting a true PG in next year's draft if that's who the BPA is when it's their turn.

Luka isn’t fast. SGA isn’t fast.

Castle has problems getting to his spots.

[John B]

If anything I want Castle to rebound more. At his size he can rim run and attack the basket. Once he gets even stronger it would be a freighter coming down with speed.

[Seventyniner]

I'm not too concerned about the footspeed. He seems to be able to get to the interior with a screen. The shooting definitely needs to improve though. It isn't lost on me that he really doesn't want to shoot unless he is damn-near standing under the backboard and that is getting his shot blocked a lot.

Once he mixes in a mid-range jumper, he should be more than solid, and if he can keep his 3-point clip to 36% he should be very formidable, even if he isn't Tony Parker fast.

Castle will never be Tony Parker fast but he doesn't need to be in order to be really good.

Blake Wesley is Tony Parker fast, if not even a bit faster, but his finishing ability and footwork are well below average while Tony's were elite.

[RC_Drunkford]

Castle is not fast enough to turn the corner, but that doesn't matter cause he's shifty and strong. What he needs is a reliable jumpshot so teams have to go over the screen. That will open up the lanes for him. He will get there, no doubt.

[scott]

+/- only deals with point differential when you’re on the court. TOS can affect that,but they don’t directly feed into the stat.

I think the point was that usually a high number of TOs correlates to a negative differential. Spurs overcame that with 41.3% from 3 though. But, a -8 team TO differential is not usually a good way to win games. We did much better against Utah. OKC is a team that will create lots of TOs though, nothing to be ashamed about and I'm sure Castle will grow from that. CP3 had 4 TOs himself against OKC. That's really just impressive from OKC's perspective.

[ismael-robert]

I know we been laughing at Reed but he's in a bad situation buried on a deep talented team. If spurs drafted him he'd be getting same usage as Castle so that's the comparison, if on spurs would he provide a greater impact than castle

[RC_Drunkford]

I doubt that. Sheppard is nowhere near Castle defensively

[Atl Spur]

Castle is not fast enough to turn the corner, but that doesn't matter cause he's shifty and strong. What he needs is a reliable jumpshot so teams have to go over the screen. That will open up the lanes for him. He will get there, no doubt.

Ok…look at you with a solid take!:)

[z0sa]

I know we been laughing at Reed but he's in a bad situation buried on a deep talented team. If spurs drafted him he'd be getting same usage as Castle so that's the comparison, if on spurs would he provide a greater impact than castle

Sheppard is better at exactly one thing in my limited opinion: shooting. Everything else, I'd take Castle. Even if the minutes/roles had parity, I'd still take Castle. Sheppard is clearly raw, again JMO but after multiple Houston outings I think it's a pretty safe b et (right now).

[rascal]

I know we been laughing at Reed but he's in a bad situation buried on a deep talented team. If spurs drafted him he'd be getting same usage as Castle so that's the comparison, if on spurs would he provide a greater impact than castle

No he wouldn't have the same impact. Reed is much more limited than Castle in his all around game.

[twodeep]

Sheppard is better at exactly one thing in my limited opinion: shooting. Everything else, I'd take Castle. Even if the minutes/roles had parity, I'd still take Castle. Sheppard is clearly raw, again JMO but after multiple Houston outings I think it's a pretty safe b et (right now).

I think castle will get better at shooting we already seen improvement which means he is working on his shot

[LeBowen]

Castle in first 9 games: 3-24 from 3pt, 2.7 attempts, 12.5%.
Castle in last 7 games: 13-33 from 3pt, 4.7 attempts, 39%.
That's including a 1-7 night against OKC.
I'd say he already got better. Obviously he can get way better, but he's already exceeded all expectations if we talk shooting.
Most scouting reports wanted us to believe he's a Jeremy level non-shooter.

[rascal]

When Castle hits his shoots then go down fast hitting all net, shooters touch. They aren't back iron rattle shots so tells me he has the proper form on his shot just needs the consistency on hitting them.

[ismael-robert]

From what I've seen of Reed he has fast hands n knocks the ball loose a lot...his defense was pretty solid

[Mr. Body]

From what I've seen of Reed he has fast hands n knocks the ball loose a lot...his defense was pretty solid

He has really great hands and knows positioning. That's maybe about it on defense. I saw him get totally bodied by TJ McConnell, a 6'1" 32 year-old dude for the Pacers. McConnell drove from the top of the lane and Sheppard was bouncing off him.

[Manu-of-steel]

Castle is the man!! He hounded Curry this game, though with plenty of help.

[CGD]

The balls on this guy. What a game he had himself, wow

[cutewizard]

I think this was his best game so far

and against the elite system of the Warriors

[cutewizard]

This song is for our Fearless Prince, Castle >>>>>>>


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69TolxsH2d4

[james evans]

I hope everyone saw his defense on curry. Locked him the fuk down.

[Obstructed_View]

Castle is the man!! He hounded Curry this game, though with plenty of help.
That last defensive stand against Curry he was on an island and didn't bite on that fake. That was amazing defense on a wizard of an offensive player.

[cutewizard]

Castle in first 9 games: 3-24 from 3pt, 2.7 attempts, 12.5%.
Castle in last 7 games: 13-33 from 3pt, 4.7 attempts, 39%.
That's including a 1-7 night against OKC.
I'd say he already got better. Obviously he can get way better, but he's already exceeded all expectations if we talk shooting.
Most scouting reports wanted us to believe he's a Jeremy level non-shooter.

-----------------------------------------------

Some scouts should really re-examine their Ontological Positions

Reality is dynamic

Everything is changing.................hmmmm

[cutewizard]

That last defensive stand against Curry he was on an island and didn't bite on that fake. That was amazing defense on a wizard of an offensive player.

-------------------------

I had a post somewhere here in Spurstalk, inquiring whether he could be All-Defense someday, .............

[Manu-of-steel]

Sounds like Castle did his assignment and studied Curry's tendencies. Though it's really hard for a rookie to not get caught by Curry's fakes. Castle is a rookie, let's try to keep that in our mind. He can be a monster on defense.

[Manu-of-steel]

Some of the Warriors' plays got stopped by the Spurs defense. It could be due to fatigue, 2nd game of a back-to-back by the Warriors. It could also be due to the fact that CP3 and HB knew these plays.

[scott]

When Curry hit that deep 3 to cut the lead to 5… Spurs teams of recent past might have folded and lost that game to an iconic Curry barrage of threes. But our man Steph shut Curry DOWN. Was a beautiful thing to watch.

[exstatic]

That last defensive stand against Curry he was on an island and didn't bite on that fake. That was amazing defense on a wizard of an offensive player.

I’ve never seen anyone play Curry like that for basically a whole game. Curry scored 14, but I’ll bet at least half came with Castle on the bench.

[z0sa]

When Curry hit that deep 3 to cut the lead to 5… Spurs teams of recent past might have folded and lost that game to an iconic Curry barrage of threes. But our man Steph shut Curry DOWN. Was a beautiful thing to watch.

Yeah, Castle stifled that fool. I mean he's older now etc etc etc but to let a rookie do that to you? His only "good" attempts were when he was at the logo

[Obstructed_View]

I’ve never seen anyone play Curry like that for basically a whole game. Curry scored 14, but I’ll bet at least half came with Castle on the bench.
And Curry is playing great and has the team playing at an elite level this year. Castle is so mature and measured for a young kid.

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcA9YLQqXg4

[Knoxxx]

That’s cuz Castle is a DAWG

[jehawk81]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcA9YLQqXg4

What a shitty video.. remove it mods

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GL9NFYSRetk

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ft8ohWgyQGo

[Atl Spur]

Monster….. period!

[cutewizard]

Regardless, Castle is my rookie of the year

Imagine a trio of Wemby, Castle and Flagg

or at least Wemby, Castle, and Egor Demin

[lefty]

Much better than Porker

[cutewizard]

Much better than Porker

--------------------------------------

An astonishing statement good Sir.......

[spursparker9]

Much better than Porker

Parker was head of the snake during 2009 to 2014 before Nephew tookover

Let's see if Castle can be the head of the snake with Wemby as his teammate

[lefty]

TOO EASY

[spurraider21]

The Castle Doctrine

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nor5Ney0p7o

[cutewizard]

He is a good kid,

well-mannered, he is articulate (got a good vocabulary)

Listens well, also has a good sense of humor

And really has a depth of understanding......

If he was my student in school, i would say > he would do well........

[cutewizard]

I just have an idea guys

a researcher can actually do CODING on the post game interviews right?

come up with some sort of paper on behavioral correlates of players, hmmmmm

[DAF86]

7BGn1GD1QE4?si=hjE6MwdRr5YmswwY

[Dejounte]

Was there someone who said Castle wasn’t quick enough? Staying on Curry is a pretty big deal… sure, maybe he won’t stick on electric point guards like the Westbrooks or the Ja’s of the world, but those aren’t championship point guards anyway

[Mugen]

Was there someone who said Castle wasn’t quick enough? Staying on Curry is a pretty big deal… sure, maybe he won’t stick on electric point guards like the Westbrooks or the Ja’s of the world, but those aren’t championship point guards anyway

I said he didn't have the footspeed to be the lead PG on the team and I still stand by that. That comment had nothing to do with his defensive ability though tbh.

[exstatic]

I said he didn't have the footspeed to be the lead PG on the team and I still stand by that. That comment had nothing to do with his defensive ability though tbh.

Neither SGA or Luka Are particularly quick. They do what they do in the same way: physicality, balance, and handle. There is actually a template out there for a big physical guard who isn’t quick.

[Mugen]

Neither SGA or Luka Are particularly quick. They do what they do in the same way: physicality, balance, and handle. There is actually a template out there for a big physical guard who isn’t quick.

Luka is bigger and (usually) a better shooter. SGA is more athletic and shiftier tbh. Different players for different rosters tbh.

I'm not saying Castle isn't gonna be a stud, quite the contrary. I just think long term, pairing him with a more traditional PG with a quicker first step and better shooting is what takes this roster to the next level. Like I think Boogie Fland would be a great pick even if he doesn't have the size that the FO usually drafts for.

[RC_Drunkford]

Was there someone who said Castle wasn’t quick enough? Staying on Curry is a pretty big deal… sure, maybe he won’t stick on electric point guards like the Westbrooks or the Ja’s of the world, but those aren’t championship point guards anyway

there are situations where he can‘t turn the corner, but it‘s not a big issue. He can absolutely play point

[exstatic]

Luka is bigger and (usually) a better shooter. SGA is more athletic and shiftier tbh. Different players for different rosters tbh.

I'm not saying Castle isn't gonna be a stud, quite the contrary. I just think long term, pairing him with a more traditional PG with a quicker first step and better shooting is what takes this roster to the next level. Like I think Boogie Fland would be a great pick even if he doesn't have the size that the FO usually drafts for.

Luka is not bigger. SGA is not more athletic. Castle fucking roofed him face to face in the last game. SGA does his shit pretty much the same way Castle does, with better shooter spacing. He’s probably in the 60%tile in the NBA athleticism.

[Mr. Body]

Thing about Castle's quickness is that he eats up space really well on defense and doesn't overrun his assignments. There's something different in how he operates. The Warriors run these long looping screens for Curry where he goes through the lane to bump his defender off. Castle has no problem with those. He's right with Curry and, what's super-impressive, comes to a halt wherever Curry comes to a halt. A lot of fast guards, like Wesley, will overshoot their assignments because it's hard to read the stop and then stop at such speeds.

[spurraider21]

It’s kind of wild to see how impactful he already is and isn’t even remotely efficient as a scorer yet.

[Dejounte]

It’s kind of wild to see how impactful he already is and isn’t even remotely efficient as a scorer yet.
He’s got some irving / curry style ball handling in his bag and i cant wait to see his highlight reels in the future. He’s going to be a household name because of his crossovers, tbh. Casual fans love that shit.

[Cry Havoc]

https://i.imgur.com/xiYnmj2.png

Spurstalk continues to show it's ass around basketball knowledge.

[DAF86]

https://i.imgur.com/xiYnmj2.png

Spurstalk continues to show it's ass around basketball knowledge.

I think that result has more to do with trading away #8 than with getting Castle, tbh.

[Cry Havoc]

I think that result has more to do with trading away #8 than with getting Castle, tbh.

Doesn't matter. Spurs got, at worst, the 3rd best player in the draft. That's a fucking win, and if someone wants to say that's less than 100% optimal, they are fine to do so, but to say we aren't happy after drafting a potential all-star level guy in a draft that every single person who pays attention to the talent level was downplaying as one of the three or four worst drafts since the early 00s is a massive W. They saw their guy and took it, then went out and plugged in Paul and Barnes and both are balling out. It's a A- draft at worst for the Spurs. Castle moved our timeline for developing this team into a contender up by 2 years. That's a grand slam of a pick.

[DAF86]

Doesn't matter. Spurs got, at worst, the 3rd best player in the draft. That's a fucking win, and if someone wants to say that's less than 100% optimal, they are fine to do so, but to say we aren't happy after drafting a potential all-star level guy in a draft that every single person who pays attention to the talent level was downplaying as one of the three or four worst drafts since the early 00s is a massive W. They saw their guy and took it, then went out and plugged in Paul and Barnes and both are balling out. It's a A- draft at worst for the Spurs. Castle moved our timeline for developing this team into a contender up by 2 years. That's a grand slam of a pick.

I'm loving what I'm seeing from Stephon, but it's waaaay too early to be making all the claims you are making about him, tbh. Patience.

[Cry Havoc]

I'm loving what I'm seeing from Stephon, but it's waaaay too early to be making all the claims you are making about him, tbh. Patience.

I did couch it with "potential". Like dude is showing insane upsides and few if any downsides. Great mind for the game. Honestly he's starting to feel like a better version of Derrick White with better athleticism. There's obviously a long way to go but he's been ridiculously good for a rookie and looks like he has crazy upside. Especially considering most teams saw him as a small 2 and the Spurs seem to have figured out a way to develop him as a combo guard at the 1.

[DAF86]

I did couch it with "potential". Like dude is showing insane upsides and few if any downsides. Great mind for the game. Honestly he's starting to feel like a better version of Derrick White with better athleticism. There's obviously a long way to go but he's been ridiculously good for a rookie and looks like he has crazy upside. Especially considering most teams saw him as a small 2 and the Spurs seem to have figured out a way to develop him as a combo guard at the 1.

I'd say his shooting is still a huge question mark. That airball on that wide open 15 footer was ugly as hell. If he fixes that, the sky is the limit.

[scott]

Doesn't matter. Spurs got, at worst, the 3rd best player in the draft. That's a fucking win, and if someone wants to say that's less than 100% optimal, they are fine to do so, but to say we aren't happy after drafting a potential all-star level guy in a draft that every single person who pays attention to the talent level was downplaying as one of the three or four worst drafts since the early 00s is a massive W. They saw their guy and took it, then went out and plugged in Paul and Barnes and both are balling out. It's a A- draft at worst for the Spurs. Castle moved our timeline for developing this team into a contender up by 2 years. That's a grand slam of a pick.

This is an oversimplification though.

If they Spurs had picks 1 and 2 in the Wemby draft, and used #1 to take Wemby and took Sidy #2 overall, you'd expect some people to be disappointed. You could view this as people not being satisfied with Wemby, or you could view it as we passed up the opportunity to have Wemby and Brandon Miller. (This is also an oversimplification)

[Obstructed_View]

https://i.imgur.com/xiYnmj2.png

Spurstalk continues to show it's ass around basketball knowledge.
I don't think there was a single ST poster who didn't like the Castle pick. Trading 8 and then drafting a useless player in the second round is what pisses people off.

[playbonner15]

Luka is bigger and (usually) a better shooter. SGA is more athletic and shiftier tbh. Different players for different rosters tbh.

I'm not saying Castle isn't gonna be a stud, quite the contrary. I just think long term, pairing him with a more traditional PG with a quicker first step and better shooting is what takes this roster to the next level. Like I think Boogie Fland would be a great pick even if he doesn't have the size that the FO usually drafts for.

I liked the Tre Jones pairing with Castle, but wish that Tre can shoot better. There were some sets before that used Tony Parker for the corner 3

[CGD]

I don't think there was a single ST poster who didn't like the Castle pick. Trading 8 and then drafting a useless player in the second round is what pisses people off.

Mostly yes, but I do wonder if people would have been butthurt with the choice if both Castle and Reed were still available at 4. The Jimmer Reed stans were out and about then (not so much now…)

[Cry Havoc]

I don't think there was a single ST poster who didn't like the Castle pick. Trading 8 and then drafting a useless player in the second round is what pisses people off.

I seem to recall Dejounte saying he was a role player at best. So that's one, at least.

Btw, weren't you the one who said McCain was going to ball out from this draft? That's a hell of a call.

[Dejounte]

I seem to recall Dejounte saying he was a role player at best. So that's one, at least.

Btw, weren't you the one who said McCain was going to ball out from this draft? That's a hell of a call.

You got the wrong guy, tbh. It was probably an early opinion for the first month of scouting last year’s players, then I was on board before a lot of people. So I’m pretty sure you’re thinking of someone else.

[Cry Havoc]

You got the wrong guy, tbh. It was probably an early opinion for the first month of scouting last year’s players, then I was on board before a lot of people. So I’m pretty sure you’re thinking of someone else.

My dude I was staring at the post you made when I wrote that. Don't duck your previous comments. Be a man. :lol

[Ice009]

I'd say his shooting is still a huge question mark. That airball on that wide open 15 footer was ugly as hell. If he fixes that, the sky is the limit.

I was hoping that ball slipped out or was tipped or something when it happened. He has the confidence to keep shooting, though, which is big, and if he's working as hard as CP3 says he is, then he's only going to get better.

[Dejounte]

My dude I was staring at the post you made when I wrote that. Don't duck your previous comments. Be a man. :lol

Bump it, and I’ll show you exactly my posts that fit the context I was describing. Let’s do this, lol.

Like I said, you’ll find early opinions from preliminary scouting and then you might find posts of me trying to antagonize rascal because I love to spite that dude for how racist he is.

At least a month before the draft my mind was changed and I likened Castle to Jimmy Butler on multiple accounts.

[ginobilized]

Castle looks like a combo of Jrue Holiday and Jaylen Brown already.
His frame looks like he could add a lot of muscle, like Brown.

[scott]

People fighting over nothing means SpursTalk is BACK which means THE SPURS ARE BACK

LFG

[Dejounte]

People fighting over nothing means SpursTalk is BACK which means THE SPURS ARE BACK

LFG

No beef here, just saying the guy is wrong and I have time to pull up the receipts if it needs to happen.

[lefty20]

I don't think there was a single ST poster who didn't like the Castle pick. Trading 8 and then drafting a useless player in the second round is what pisses people off.

Shit, I'll volunteer as tribute.

There were a lot of us(yes including myself) that wanted Sheppard. But with him gone at 3, Castle seemed the right choice at 4. However, picking him had felt like getting a consolation prize to me.

I doubted his ability to play PG at the NBA level and very much doubted his ability to shoot the ball proficiently.

Then, otoh, I was one of the few who was not upset at trading away the 8th pick. I thought we got a decent haul for it, considering the weak draft. I was quite content with the deal even before we used that salary for Barnes and an additional unprotected swap.

All this is to say that I was one of those who was not overly enthused about the draft. Just not necessarily for the reasons you've listed.

[twodeep]

I don't think there was a single ST poster who didn't like the Castle pick. Trading 8 and then drafting a useless player in the second round is what pisses people off.

Nailed it most everyone liked Castle at 4 it was everything after that pick people were hating on

[playbonner15]

People fighting over nothing means SpursTalk is BACK which means THE SPURS ARE BACK

LFG

So true :lol

[Seventyniner]

Shit, I'll volunteer as tribute.

There were a lot of us(yes including myself) that wanted Sheppard. But with him gone at 3, Castle seemed the right choice at 4. However, picking him had felt like getting a consolation prize to me.

I doubted his ability to play PG at the NBA level and very much doubted his ability to shoot the ball proficiently.

Then, otoh, I was one of the few who was not upset at trading away the 8th pick. I thought we got a decent haul for it, considering the weak draft. I was quite content with the deal even before we used that salary for Barnes and an additional unprotected swap.

All this is to say that I was one of those who was not overly enthused about the draft. Just not necessarily for the reasons you've listed.

I wanted Sheppard too, cause I thought he could have Danny Green or Derrick White like defensive impact while being an elite shooter. That doesn't seem to be in the cards, though it's still only 1/5 into his rookie season.

[Obstructed_View]

Wait a sec, guys. Have we decided that Sheppard is a bust? Last I saw he was shooting 39 percent from three for a team that doesn't need to speed his development along. He'd have had a place here. I'm happier with Castle for now, but I'd gave been happier with two players, even if it cost us the corpse of Harrison Barnes, who has been a great fit.

[Obstructed_View]

I wanted Sheppard too, cause I thought he could have Danny Green or Derrick White like defensive impact while being an elite shooter. That doesn't seem to be in the cards, though it's still only 1/5 into his rookie season.
Julian reminds me of LDN, but he's more mature at this stage.

[DAF86]

Wait a sec, guys. Have we decided that Sheppard is a bust? Last I saw he was shooting 39 percent from three for a team that doesn't need to speed his development along. He'd have had a place here. I'm happier with Castle for now, but I'd gave been happier with two players, even if it cost us the corpse of Harrison Barnes, who has been a great fit.

I don't know why the Rockets don't send him to the g-league and give him a 40% usage, tbh.

[Pauleta14]

Nice breakdown of the end the game from Castle and Wemby from the 1:07:00 mark


https://www.youtube.com/live/CJQbp99DpKE?si=8A49CP6EXz8aAU1s

[rascal]

I don't think there was a single ST poster who didn't like the Castle pick. Trading 8 and then drafting a useless player in the second round is what pisses people off.

There were a few who still wanted Dillingham.

[Mr. Body]

Wait a sec, guys. Have we decided that Sheppard is a bust? Last I saw he was shooting 39 percent from three for a team that doesn't need to speed his development along. He'd have had a place here. I'm happier with Castle for now, but I'd gave been happier with two players, even if it cost us the corpse of Harrison Barnes, who has been a great fit.

I don't think Sheppard is a bust. None of these guys are. These things take time.

To me it's clear Sheppard has drawbacks that will need to be accounted for. He doesn't have much self-creation. He's also potentially a great team defender but has issues on-ball. This isn't much different from what we saw in college. He may become a dangerous off-ball shooter and connector and someone who can be covered on the other side. He's a smart player on a talented team.

[rascal]

Very few were on Castle, Mr. Body and Baseline Bum were two of the ones who were early on Castle.

Most here wanted the Kentucky guards over Castle. Most said they didn't want Castle because he couldn't shoot.

[BacktoBasics]

There were a few who still wanted Dillingham.

I admit I was one of them. But after some reflection I believe they did the right thing. Even though its not a glamorous move in the moment. I don't think Dillingham is going to be an All-Star level player. But if he produces just shy of that level he'll demand a pretty significant contract and his trade value likely won't exceed that of the 1st round pick we obtained. Dilly has expensive role player vibes. So you're either paying a guy at the same time you're gonna have to pay Wemby and Castle or you have a bargaining chip in that 1st to help round out your team. Minny is not a perpetual winner either so that pick could be pretty solid right when we need it most. So many teams are playoff bound but not contenders all while having little to no picks and cap strung.

Stockpiling picks isn't bad business.

[thOOdee]

I do remember there being a strong dilly over castle segment of spurstalk (and more so sheppard if fallen) and me wanting to throw my computer over just the thought of having a trae like defensive lacking guard. I feel like sometimes this forum has convenient amnesia.

[spurraider21]

I don't think Sheppard is a bust. None of these guys are. These things take time.

To me it's clear Sheppard has drawbacks that will need to be accounted for. He doesn't have much self-creation. He's also potentially a great team defender but has issues on-ball. This isn't much different from what we saw in college. He may become a dangerous off-ball shooter and connector and someone who can be covered on the other side. He's a smart player on a talented team.
yep, i had kentucky guys both over castle. though i also said castle was one of the picks i'd be happy with at 4. the guys i wasnt particularly fond if in the draft were Buzelis and Salaun