The Irregular Trebuchet of Stephon Castle

[stnick2261]

Very few were on Castle, Mr. Body and Baseline Bum were two of the ones who were early on Castle.

Most here wanted the Kentucky guards over Castle. Most said they didn't want Castle because he couldn't shoot.

I was vocal early on about wanting Topic / Castle. Then, when Topic had his injury, I said I still wanted them both, just picked in the opposite order (Castle first). I'm happy with the outcome.

[SpursBills]

Sheppard's career arc hasn't been determined yet. He's getting 12 minutes a game on a deep team with playoff aspirations. I think at this point in the season though, it is a good bet that Castle will have the better career. A couple of factors play into this -

1. Castle's shown the confidence and willingness to launch 3s at 1.5x the rate that he did in college - I'm not seeing the hesitation as a pro that I did when he was at UConn. A big part of 3 point projection relies on a player's confidence taking 3s in college, this significantly affects his shooting projection. If you bump his college 3point rate up, you're getting shooting comps like Anthony Edwards or Tyrese Maxey as opposed to MKG.

2. Conversely, Reed's hesitation and tendency to defer is really biting him as a rookie - there is definitely something to the assertion that he's overthinking his efficiency and that's negatively affecting his play. It's leading to a lot of passing when he should be shooting, and I think it's affecting his confidence. The difference in performance between Sheppard and McCain right now really illustrates the importance of mentality and confidence as it pertains to success in the league. I had McCain and Sheppard closer together than virtually anyone on this board, but it looks like I still got it somewhat wrong.

3. This goes back to summer league, but Castle's really demonstrated a lot of lead guard tendencies that were depressed while he was at UConn. I expected him to become a Smart/Suggs level initiator, but he's shown chops way above and beyond that. I do wonder if maybe we should be looking at high school tape more for a lot of these freshmen who have very limited college tape or who play a completely different role in college compared to high school.

Ultimately, I can't be too sad about my call of Sheppard over Castle at the time. I assumed Castle was the higher ceiling prospect and had him in his own tier at #2, but I'm happy to see that he's way outperformed my expectations for him thus far. We'll see what Sheppard looks like in a few years, but I'm more than happy to be wrong about this and have the Spurs end up with a stud rather than have it the other way around.


As an aside, I think the 2023 draft was actually very underrated as it pertains to the front office's evaluation. Wemby was an obvious draft pick, but there were a couple of factors where the front office either did their evaluations correctly or avoided potential landmines that would have either set the team back immensely or at least somewhat.

1. A lot of people on this board were calling for a trade of a future draft asset to move back into the lottery to grab either Anthony Black or Cason Wallace to pair with Wemby. While both guys have turned out to be promising players, it probably would have cost the Spurs the 2024 pick and most would probably prefer Castle to either of those two guys.

2. I think I even saw one or two posters calling for the Spurs to trade future draft assets to pair Scoot with Wemby. As of today, Scoot Henderson is rated as a bottom 5 player by EPM. He might still become a good player in time, but I think it's unlikely he becomes a star in the future. Trading for him probably would have cost the Spurs Castle and at least 1-2 future unprotected draft picks as well, which would have been a disaster of epic proportions.

3. Before the lottery, I think Timvp had an article saying that the front office actually preferred Amen Thompson over both Scoot and Brandon Miller if they did not win the Wemby sweepstakes. It ended up being a moot point since we got Wemby, but Amen is probably Houston's most untradeable player right now and is already an elite role player. I don't think that was a popular opinion at the time, but in retrospect it was probably the correct read on prospect quality.

All this to say, even though the front office could have drafted better players in prior years, I think they probably deserve more credit from a talent evaluation standpoint than they probably get.

[Cry Havoc]

Bump it, and I’ll show you exactly my posts that fit the context I was describing. Let’s do this, lol.

Like I said, you’ll find early opinions from preliminary scouting and then you might find posts of me trying to antagonize rascal because I love to spite that dude for how racist he is.

At least a month before the draft my mind was changed and I likened Castle to Jimmy Butler on multiple accounts.

Man it's cool, I'm not gonna dig through a bunch of posts to find it.

Hell, I myself had doubts about Castle's ability to develop into a big time player, that UCONN team was so loaded to the gills with talent that it was easy to see him as being part of that system with 4 other elite guys rather than an individual monster.

[Obstructed_View]

I'd be happy if this turns out to be a draft full of good players just to make the experts look stupid.

[paperboy77]

Great thing about castles game is he plays hard and isn't slightly overdramatic when a ref calls the fouls. Absolutely biggest thing is that he's gaining the respect of the refs for sure. THAT.. will accelerate his place in the NBA.

[lefty20]

Great thing about castles game is he plays hard and isn't slightly overdramatic when a ref calls the fouls. Absolutely biggest thing is that he's gaining the respect of the refs for sure. THAT.. will accelerate his place in the NBA.

It's crazy that they've started respecting him already on D. He was a lil handsy with Curry for most of the game and was allowed to get away with it, much to my surprise.

Now we just need to wait till he starts getting the same respect on the offensive end.

[Ice009]

I hadn't gotten around to mentioning it, but one of my favourite things I saw last game was that he picked up his first foul with just over two minutes left in the game. I thought that was awesome, and yes, you guys may be right as it seems he's getting respect already.

[DAF86]

I saw someone call him Esteban Castillo on twitter. :lmao

[SupremeGuy]

There's no way, even when Socham and Vassell get healthy, he's not starting right?

[DAF86]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GdH0TKiagAMNcMO?format=jpg&name=medium

[John B]

There's no way, even when Socham and Vassell get healthy, he's not starting right?

He’s getting better every night and under the keen eyes of CP3. He’ll eventually be the 2nd option of this team. So nope, it will be a crime to push him back to the bench

[DAF86]

There's no way, even when Socham and Vassell get healthy, he's not starting right?

Yeah, no way. It would take some serious dementia Pop coming back to see something like that.

[SpursGenius]

Yeah, no way. It would take some serious dementia Pop coming back to see something like that.
lets hope the hag retires.

[Atl Spur]

lets hope the hag retires.

The hag? Dude grow up!! That man deserves better than that… shame on you.

[John B]

lets hope the hag retires.

Seriously things like this do not belong in Spurs forum. You can’t call yourself SpursGenius if not for Coach Pop helping put San Antonio in basketball map.

[TekXX]

Seriously things like this do not belong in Spurs forum. You can’t call yourself SpursGenius if not for Coach Pop helping put San Antonio in basketball map.

Fire pop

[Robz4000]

Honestly, I bring both Vassell and Sochan off the bench when the team is fully healthy tbh. At least until this SL starts showing cracks.

[Knoxxx]

Very few were on Castle, Mr. Body and Baseline Bum were two of the ones who were early on Castle.

Most here wanted the Kentucky guards over Castle. Most said they didn't want Castle because he couldn't shoot.

I had Sheppard and Castle about a coin flip but figured in following the board Castle was who we were slotted to get. Then when I studied up on him some more I was real high on him after viewing him as somewhat of a buzz kill or booby prize early on at 4. Dilly I thought was a nice pick at 8, he has been playing well last few games for MN actually with high shooting percentages.

[cutewizard]

Remember the Wemby comment earlier this season guys

He said, paraphrase.....that Castle has the ability to evolve very quickly

Something like that hmmmm.....

We have a gem here

Now who shall we add next year to complement

What an age to be a Spurs scout.....

If I was in America....I would apply for ANY job in the Spurs

Even janitor or something

Absorb the organizational culture.....

[cutewizard]

In the X Men Wolverine has those powers

Hahahahahah

[Knoxxx]

Honestly, I bring both Vassell and Sochan off the bench when the team is fully healthy tbh. At least until this SL starts showing cracks.

I agree that it will be hard to rock the boat on current SL. It’s a good problem to have though, missing two solid players that at worst bolster your bench even further. Ultimately we need a bare minimum of 8 playoff capable players to make a decent push - and are about there if you count KJ - ideally we need 9 or 10. Which we are also close to pulling off with trades of draft capital, just continuing to draft with the picks we have, and any savvy free agent pickups similar to the Barnes/Paul acquisitions.

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yibxd_rbU2U

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOAuLl-c2K8

[szkorhetz]

He's much better and much more polished than Kawhi was in his rookie year, so the sky is limit for this guy.

[Manu-of-steel]

Agree. And he seems to have Kawhi's and Timmy's demeanor. Although Kawhi is taller at 6'7". I hope Castle has the same drive as Kawhi in training. And I hope Castle has no Uncle Dennis. Im good with Unc HB and CP3

[LeBowen]

Jrue/Jimmy comparisons looking better with each passing day.

We might have ourselves the best duo in the league on our hands.

I comparing him with nephew would be unfair, nephew's defense was something we'll never see again if we talk guards/wings, he was that good.
And just as good on offense. I don't think Castle will ever reach top3 player in the league status, but he'll definitely be all-star level.

[Tyronn Lue]

The Castle Doctrine

[spursparker9]

Jrue can't really start an offence. Castle's ceiling offensively will be higher. Probably Jimmy Fking Butler or even SGA if we are really really lucky

[Obstructed_View]

He's so poised and deliberate. Very mature for a rookie. Can't remember the last rook the Spurs had who was so comfortable with game speed this early.

[exstatic]

He's so poised and deliberate. Very mature for a rookie. Can't remember the last rook the Spurs had who was so comfortable with game speed this early.

Wemby was laughing in an interview a few games ago that Steph said that the game had slowed down for him in his 4th pre-season game, and that it took Wemby 50 games or so.

[LeBowen]

Second behind McCain on updated rookie ladder.

[spurraider21]

its gonna be hilarious to see spurs fans this year make the same arguments OKC fans did last year :lol

"he's playing a more important role on a better team, he's actually helping a team get wins, not just putting up stats on a bad team because he has a green light"

[spurraider21]

Esteban Castillo is great tbh :lol

[scott]

I said about 10 games ago that Castle's 3ball would be the difference between his ceiling being "solid starter" and "all NBA caliber"... pretty damn exciting to see his 3pt shot coming around ahead of schedule. Love this kid.

I don't want to say he's made Devin expendable, but given Devin's lack of ability to stay healthy and a questionable fit with THIS style of Spurs basketball... I wouldn't be opposed to exploring opportunities to move him if the right ones came along (that doesn't mean send him off for Jordan Poole or some bullshit)... but let's revisit something talked about during the Dame Drama... Vassell out in a package that returns Herro (we'd have to add assets at this point). Yeah, I'm in for that.

[LeBowen]

I said about 10 games ago that Castle's 3ball would be the difference between his ceiling being "solid starter" and "all NBA caliber"... pretty damn exciting to see his 3pt shot coming around ahead of schedule. Love this kid.

I don't want to say he's made Devin expendable, but given Devin's lack of ability to stay healthy and a questionable fit with THIS style of Spurs basketball... I wouldn't be opposed to exploring opportunities to move him if the right ones came along (that doesn't mean send him off for Jordan Poole or some bullshit)... but let's revisit something talked about during the Dame Drama... Vassell out in a package that returns Herro (we'd have to add assets at this point). Yeah, I'm in for that.

Since we talked about those double point guard lineups, I'd wait and see if Fox demands a trade this summer.
Devin and picks would be a fair return. Their 20131 swap back and 2 more picks for an unhappy player on expiring contract seems fair.

[scott]

Since we talked about those double point guard lineups, I'd wait and see if Fox demands a trade this summer.
Devin and picks would be a fair return. Their 20131 swap back and 2 more picks for an unhappy player on expiring contract seems fair.

Hmmmm... I like Fox a lot, but I'm not sure I love that fit.

In the meantime, I hope Devin just comes back with a vengeance, stays healthy, and we don't have to worry about it.

[Obstructed_View]

its gonna be hilarious to see spurs fans this year make the same arguments OKC fans did last year :lol

"he's playing a more important role on a better team, he's actually helping a team get wins, not just putting up stats on a bad team because he has a green light"
Aren't you supposed to make a case for your guy? We watched Tim Duncan never win DPOY because of that.

[spurraider21]

Aren't you supposed to make a case for your guy? We watched Tim Duncan never win DPOY because of that.
if you want to be a blind homer sure. i can have a preference of my guy winning while acknowledging he doesnt have the best case

[LeBowen]

Hmmmm... I like Fox a lot, but I'm not sure I love that fit.

In the meantime, I hope Devin just comes back with a vengeance, stays healthy, and we don't have to worry about it.

The only thing I'm worried about is Devin's healthy.
If he can stay healthy, I've got no doubt he'll be a long-term piece for us.

Even if he doesn't improve, $30M a season for an efficent 20ppg scorer who's not a negative on defense is good value.

[scott]

The only thing I'm worried about is Devin's healthy.
If he can stay healthy, I've got no doubt he'll be a long-term piece for us.

Even if he doesn't improve, $30M a season for an efficent 20ppg scorer who's not a negative on defense is good value.

I have some fit concerns as well, but I think those will all work themselves out. Definitely health is the biggest concern... Devin is attracted to the injury report like a magnet

[Obstructed_View]

if you want to be a blind homer sure. i can have a preference of my guy winning while acknowledging he doesnt have the best case
Oh, fuck. God forbid someone be a homer for a sportsball team. Such important stuff requires total maturity.

[spurraider21]

Oh, fuck. God forbid someone be a homer for a sportsball team. Such important stuff requires total maturity.
nobody said you cant do it

[baseline bum]

Jrue/Jimmy comparisons looking better with each passing day.

We might have ourselves the best duo in the league on our hands.

I comparing him with nephew would be unfair, nephew's defense was something we'll never see again if we talk guards/wings, he was that good.
And just as good on offense. I don't think Castle will ever reach top3 player in the league status, but he'll definitely be all-star level.

Castle looks kind of like Alvin Robertson 2.0 to me. Doesn't have the hands Alvin had but the core strength, the bumps, how well he fights over screens, and how strong he is at the basket remind me a lot of Alvin.

[spurraider21]

aside from the obvious... the jumper, he should work on his layup package. right now he either goes into the chest of the defender, or he does the exaggerated hesitation, both of which are effective, but its all he's got. he's not really an above the rim player at all. he does have some nice dunks but they havent been situations where he dunks over/through somebody, and his burst jumping off one foot isnt really great, and most half court drives are going to demand that he leave off one foot. below the rim craft takes time... TP perfected that over the years, as have Kyrie and Curry

[Splits]

Esteban Castillo is great tbh :lol

i dont get it. educate a boomer

[DAF86]

i dont get it. educate a boomer

Esteban Castillo se las trae.

[RC_Drunkford]

I said about 10 games ago that Castle's 3ball would be the difference between his ceiling being "solid starter" and "all NBA caliber"... pretty damn exciting to see his 3pt shot coming around ahead of schedule. Love this kid.

I don't want to say he's made Devin expendable, but given Devin's lack of ability to stay healthy and a questionable fit with THIS style of Spurs basketball... I wouldn't be opposed to exploring opportunities to move him if the right ones came along (that doesn't mean send him off for Jordan Poole or some bullshit)... but let's revisit something talked about during the Dame Drama... Vassell out in a package that returns Herro (we'd have to add assets at this point). Yeah, I'm in for that.

how is his fit questionable? You'd have to see how a Castle/Vassell back court looks first before making that decision. They complement each other quite well in theory. And Devin been healthy, the coaching staff is just super careful to the point where he is frustrated that they not letting him play.

[Splits]

Esteban Castillo se las trae.

you're not helping. are we talking about the fat guy that eats chimichangas?

[DAF86]

you're not helping. are we talking about the fat guy that eats chimichangas?

If Stephon was a beaner.

[RC_Drunkford]

Esteban Castillo se las trae.

so you're the Spurs Reporter? Funny that all the Spurs beat writers have accounts here

[DAF86]

so you're the Spurs Reporter? Funny that all the Spurs beat writers have accounts here

Nah, I stole that comment from twitter.

[spurraider21]

i dont get it. educate a boomer
im not even a spanish speaker and it seemed obvious tbh :lol

esteban just a spanish sounding version of stephon

castillo translates to castle

[scott]

how is his fit questionable? You'd have to see how a Castle/Vassell back court looks first before making that decision. They complement each other quite well in theory. And Devin been healthy, the coaching staff is just super careful to the point where he is frustrated that they not letting him play.

The fit is questionable for starters for the exact reason you stated: we have to see it. Until then, it's a question.

I don't think they compliment in theory quite as well as you, but I think it can work out if Devin can play more off ball. Devin trying to be a playmaker and then dribbling himself into a difficult shot works less because with Castle there is less need for Devin to try and be an ISO scorer. However, this is something we probably wanted to see less of from Devin anyway. He'll need to transition into more of an off-the-ball scorer. I'm confident he can, but until we sit it... it's a question.

[scott]

so you're the Spurs Reporter? Funny that all the Spurs beat writers have accounts here

Spurs Reporter is some dumbfuck from Modesto CA who has a site that a lot of us old timers used to be on. When Kori and LJ built this site, he banned us all :lol

[LeBowen]

The fit is questionable for starters for the exact reason you stated: we have to see it. Until then, it's a question.

I don't think they compliment in theory quite as well as you, but I think it can work out if Devin can play more off ball. Devin trying to be a playmaker and then dribbling himself into a difficult shot works less because with Castle there is less need for Devin to try and be an ISO scorer. However, this is something we probably wanted to see less of from Devin anyway. He'll need to transition into more of an off-the-ball scorer. I'm confident he can, but until we sit it... it's a question.

Tbh, to me it feels like he'd be better suited for that role because playmaking and drawing fouls are his biggest flaws.
He moves well off the ball, gets into positions, can make good cuts and can easily beat late closeouts off the dribble.
PNR here and there, but shouldn't do it too much.
A traditional shooting guard.

[scott]

Tbh, to me it feels like he'd be better suited for that role because playmaking and drawing fouls are his biggest flaws.
He moves well off the ball, gets into positions, can make good cuts and can easily beat late closeouts off the dribble.
PNR here and there, but shouldn't do it too much.
A traditional shooting guard.

I agree. But he also seems to think of himself as Kobe. If he can stay disciplined in the role he actually excels at, I think we'll be golden. But we saw times last year, he gets these hero ball tendencies from time to time. Those need to be kept in check. Wemby is the only one who can get away with that, everyone else needs to stick with the team ball philosophy that is working (and someone needs to get the memo to Keldon, ASAP)

[RC_Drunkford]

The fit is questionable for starters for the exact reason you stated: we have to see it. Until then, it's a question.

I don't think they compliment in theory quite as well as you, but I think it can work out if Devin can play more off ball. Devin trying to be a playmaker and then dribbling himself into a difficult shot works less because with Castle there is less need for Devin to try and be an ISO scorer. However, this is something we probably wanted to see less of from Devin anyway. He'll need to transition into more of an off-the-ball scorer. I'm confident he can, but until we sit it... it's a question.

absolutely which is why I want to see him with the starters in Champagnie's spot. He can do the iso thing when he's out there with the bench and they need to score. Devin being wide open is basically a guaranteed bucket. I always thought he was put in that position as an iso scorer last year to develop his game more so than to actually be that player in the future.

[DAF86]

Vassell was suppossed to be this elite defensive prospect, whatever happened to that.

[Mugen]

Vassell was suppossed to be this elite defensive prospect, whatever happened to that.

His offensive game expanded. It happens tbh. KAT was supposed to have strong defensive potential coming out of Kentucky.

[Splits]

im not even a spanish speaker and it seemed obvious tbh :lol

esteban just a spanish sounding version of stephon

castillo translates to castle

dumb

[RC_Drunkford]

Vassell was suppossed to be this elite defensive prospect, whatever happened to that.

he's a good team defender, just not good as a point of attack defender. There was a video from Sam Vecenie where he analyzed Castle's defense and he raved about how Castle fought over the screen and then recovered, only to find out it was actually Vassell and Castle was the guy in the corner :lol

Also y'all be judging Vassell's defense off of last year, where the defensive schemes where trash and the whole team outside of Wemby sucked on defense.

[LeBowen]

I agree. But he also seems to think of himself as Kobe. If he can stay disciplined in the role he actually excels at, I think we'll be golden. But we saw times last year, he gets these hero ball tendencies from time to time. Those need to be kept in check. Wemby is the only one who can get away with that, everyone else needs to stick with the team ball philosophy that is working (and someone needs to get the memo to Keldon, ASAP)

A lot of hero ball was on noone else being able to step up.
What frustrated me even more was how he just passively watched Keldon and Jeremy chuck us out of many games without ever asserting himself as the primary perimeter option.

I think everyone on this roster knows playing with Wemby will be the best chance they'll have to compete and they'll all try their best not to fuck it up.
If Devin needs to become an elite off-ball player, he'll do it...or at least try to.

[scott]

absolutely which is why I want to see him with the starters in Champagnie's spot. He can do the iso thing when he's out there with the bench and they need to score. Devin being wide open is basically a guaranteed bucket. I always thought he was put in that position as an iso scorer last year to develop his game more so than to actually be that player in the future.

I think I'd still like to see Champ starting, but with Vassell still getting 32+ minutes off the bench and being part of the closing lineup. I like the idea of Devin coming off the bench just because I don't think we necessarily need anything more than Champ out of the starting five right now - and Devin coming in off the bench extends the length of having an alpha scorer on the court. Similar philosophy as when Manu moved to the bench. I also think Devin in place of Champ would hurt the defense, because I don't think Devin is as well suited to guard 3s as Champ is. For example, Devin wouldn't have been able to do what Champ did to Lauri yesterday.

[scott]

A lot of hero ball was on noone else being able to step up.
What frustrated me even more was how he just passively watched Keldon and Jeremy chuck us out of many games without ever asserting himself as the primary perimeter option.

I think everyone on this roster knows playing with Wemby will be the best chance they'll have to compete and they'll all try their best not to fuck it up.
If Devin needs to become an elite off-ball player, he'll do it...or at least try to.

I will be happy to be wrong, but at times I feel like Devin thinks he can be/should be the alpha on this team... and that's what concerns me. We will see - hope I am dead wrong on that!

[Mugen]

I will be happy to be wrong, but at times I feel like Devin thinks he can be/should be the alpha on this team... and that's what concerns me. We will see - hope I am dead wrong on that!

The only time I ever got an inkling of that was last season where Devin seemed to get annoyed by the constant Wemby questions during a post game presser. In his defense, I think they had lost like 15 straight at that point so I'd be pissed off too. :lol

I haven't seen nothing but positive vibes from Vassell since tbh

[RC_Drunkford]

I think I'd still like to see Champ starting, but with Vassell still getting 32+ minutes off the bench and being part of the closing lineup. I like the idea of Devin coming off the bench just because I don't think we necessarily need anything more than Champ out of the starting five right now - and Devin coming in off the bench extends the length of having an alpha scorer on the court. Similar philosophy as when Manu moved to the bench. I also think Devin in place of Champ would hurt the defense, because I don't think Devin is as well suited to guard 3s as Champ is. For example, Devin wouldn't have been able to do what Champ did to Lauri yesterday.

that has been the case last season as well, since one of Wemby or Vassell was always out there with the bench. He doesn't have to come off the bench to do that. Of course you can use him like we used Manu back in the day, but I'd definitely start him just to see how that looks. Besides that Wemby loves Devin and loves to play with him. That's super obvious.

[spurraider21]

I think I'd still like to see Champ starting, but with Vassell still getting 32+ minutes off the bench and being part of the closing lineup. I like the idea of Devin coming off the bench just because I don't think we necessarily need anything more than Champ out of the starting five right now - and Devin coming in off the bench extends the length of having an alpha scorer on the court. Similar philosophy as when Manu moved to the bench. I also think Devin in place of Champ would hurt the defense, because I don't think Devin is as well suited to guard 3s as Champ is. For example, Devin wouldn't have been able to do what Champ did to Lauri yesterday.
if we look at the version of devin we saw the last couple of years... i think i have to agree. he obviously has starter talent, but if his main asset right now is going to be on-ball creation (also averaged over 5 APG post-break last year), thats not really the most needed skill when we have CP3, and Castle playing too well to bench.

right now thats something the bench sorely lacks. Tre Jones hasnt been very good this year. Wesley has shown the continued progression we saw in the preseason... but his offense definitely runs dry quite a bit. that unit really could use some creation from the other guard spot. champagnie also just has more size/strength than vassell which enables him to hang with forwards on the other end, as you mentioned.

my issue with julian is that for a 3&D type player, his 3pt shooting really hasnt been all that good. he did go off in the 4th yesterday, but he's at 35% for the season, and was at 36.5% last year. he shot 40% his first year here, but on a 15 game sample size. and to the extent he can knock down shots, he's not a movement shooter (yet). but with Barnes being a corner sniper, Paul being able to pull up, and Wemby suddenly becoming a good 3pt shooter... we can get away with julian's on and off shooting for now.

if we keep the hot starting lineup going... we could be looking at a pretty filthy bench unit with Wesley/Vassell/Keldon/Sochan/Collins (Bassey pls)

[RC_Drunkford]

Devin's onball creation ability and him being able to pull up off the dribble is actually why I think him and Castle would be a very nice back court tandem. Both can play on and off the ball. They also compliment each other on defense with Castle being point of attack and Devin more of a help defender. That should definitely be exploited although I'm fine with starting CP3 for now to teach the young guys.

[exstatic]

Vassell was suppossed to be this elite defensive prospect, whatever happened to that.

He was an elite team defender, and was never presented as a POA defender.

[scott]

Devin's onball creation ability and him being able to pull up off the dribble is actually why I think him and Castle would be a very nice back court tandem. Both can play on and off the ball. They also compliment each other on defense with Castle being point of attack and Devin more of a help defender. That should definitely be exploited although I'm fine with starting CP3 for now to teach the young guys.

If we're talking Castle and Devin in the backcourt, I definitely agree... but for now I don't think a Devin for CP3 swap out is on the table. It would have to be Devin for Champ, which I'm less excited about.

[DAF86]

If you think about it, Vassell and Castle had pretty similar profiles coming out of college. Both two way guards that played on an equalitarian system on stacked teams. I think that experience could lead to them gelling pretty well, tbh.

[z0sa]

Vassell needs to start if he can ever get healthy. The only thing Champ has on him is a couple of inches. Vassell is better in every regard otherwise, if we're to assume he won't have to carry the load as heavily as Wemby Year 1 except when matchups incline as such/he feels like it.

[spurraider21]

Vassell needs to start if he can ever get healthy. The only thing Champ has on him is a couple of inches. Vassell is better in every regard otherwise, if we're to assume he won't have to carry the load as heavily as Wemby Year 1 except when matchups incline as such/he feels like it.
right now champ is a better defender than him, and he frankly plays bigger. its not just that his listed height is a few inches taller.

in a vacuum vassell is obviously the better player, i dont think thats being discussed. but as far as what's needed to complement the rest of the Paul/Castle/Barnes/Wemby lineup... Devin's game seems a little superfluous right now, especially with our bench not having very good offensive creation (wesley/tre/keldon/zollins...)

[DAF86]

He was an elite team defender, and was never presented as a POA defender.

Dude, most of the time he was tasked with defending the other team's PG in college. :lol

O6ZtJw1k3bk?si=s44RDTXi2DlHpUeR


Strengths: Vassell is arguably one of the best and most athletic wing defenders in this year’s draft. He can guard on-ball and off-ball, with a 6’10” wingspan that projects him to guard ‘1’ through ‘4’ at the next level. He shot 41.5% from deep his sophomore season, sporting a 56.5% effective field goal percentage.

https://www.nba.com/wizards/2020-nba-draft-profile-devin-vassell


A 3-and-D wing who is a better scorer than given credit for… Can knock down contested shots thanks to plus-length and high release point on jumper… Solid shooter off the dribble… Nice defender one-on-one and as a help defender… Accurate three-point shooter as well… Not a freakish athlete… Won’t blow by defenders, but can use craftiness to score out of the midrange anyway.

https://hoopshype.com/devin-vassell-scouting-report/

[CGD]

Vassell needs to start if he can ever get healthy. The only thing Champ has on him is a couple of inches. Vassell is better in every regard otherwise, if we're to assume he won't have to carry the load as heavily as Wemby Year 1 except when matchups incline as such/he feels like it.

The line up of the future is likely Steph, Dev, Champ, Sochan, and Wembs. It’s just a matter of time— as soon as the inevitable annual CP3 injury tbh.

[spurraider21]

The line up of the future is likely Steph, Dev, Champ, Sochan, and Wembs. It’s just a matter of time— as soon as the inevitable annual CP3 injury tbh.
the world with that lineup when champagnie becomes a 40% 3 point shooter

https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/026/738/future.jpg

[DAF86]

the world with that lineup when champagnie becomes a 40% 3 point shooter

https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/026/738/future.jpg

Champ 40% 3pt shooter, Vassell 40% 3pt shooter, Wemby 37% shooter on 10 3's per game.

Wemby, Sochan and Castillo all-defensive teamers. Israel and Palestine become BFFs.

[Strategic]

Vassell was suppossed to be this elite defensive prospect, whatever happened to that. If Vassell is watching what’s happening with the Spurs this season maybe he’ll decide that he needs to play defense if he wants some PT.

[CGD]

Champ 40% 3pt shooter, Vassell 40% 3pt shooter, Wemby 37% shooter on 10 3's per game.

Wemby, Sochan and Castillo all-defensive teamers. Israel and Palestine become BFFs.

That’s one way to address the spacing issues with Castillo and Sochan playing together…

[Dejounte]

There’s an overemphasis on hitting the 40% mark as a 3 pt shooter smh

in this day and age being a threat from deep is enough

if you look at the players with >40% shooting, barely any of them are 3 and d type and have as many attempts as champagnie

[playbonner15]

Champ 40% 3pt shooter, Vassell 40% 3pt shooter, Wemby 37% shooter on 10 3's per game.

Wemby, Sochan and Castillo all-defensive teamers. Israel and Palestine become BFFs.

If a Wemby, Sochan, Castle, Champagnie, Vassell lineup works offensively, that could be a great defensive lineup, might even get to a top defensive rtg

[spurraider21]

There’s an overemphasis on hitting the 40% mark as a 3 pt shooter smh

in this day and age being a threat from deep is enough

if you look at the players with >40% shooting, barely any of them are 3 and d type and have as many attempts as champagnie
right now league average is 35.8%. champagnie is shooting 35% on the season

if you're going to be a "specialist" or someone who's main job is to space the floor... you gotta be a lot better than average

[Dejounte]

right now league average is 35.8%. champagnie is shooting 35% on the season

if you're going to be a "specialist" or someone who's main job is to space the floor... you gotta be a lot better than average

again, take a look at the specialists in the league. There are very few that meet this dream criteria you’re describing, and even fewer who get paid as little as him. I think you’re lagging behind on what’s acceptable for specialists in the modern age.

[spurraider21]

again, take a look at the specialists in the league. There are very few that meet this dream criteria you’re describing, and even fewer who get paid as little as him. I think you’re lagging behind on what’s acceptable for specialists in the modern age.
i mean hitting exactly 40 isnt a make it or break it figure. but he ought to be closer to 40 than 35, thats for sure

but there are currently 60 players making 40+ percent of their threes (on a qualifying number of attempts). and yes, that includes specialists and 3&D types... like MPJ, Naz Reid, Ben Sheppard, Dillon Brooks, Lu Dort, Royce O'neal, Finney-Smith, Pritchard, Anunoby, Coffey, Heild, Cam Johnson, Barnes, NAW, Knecht, Kennard, Braun, Garrison Matthews, Josh Green, Taurean Prince

its not some mythical unachievable figure reserved only for the legendarily elite

champagnie is 43rd in attempts per game but his % is below league average. so no, its not a good enough figure for a specialist no matter how low you think the standards should be... within reason

im well aware julian is outplaying his contract regardless. he's one of the best contracts on the team right now. but thats just changing the topic

[CGD]

i mean hitting exactly 40 isnt a make it or break it figure. but he ought to be closer to 40 than 35, thats for sure

Id happily take 3 of the starting five in the 37% range. Allows them to keep Castillo and Sochan in, who had been a force in the interior before the injury.

[ismael-robert]

https://www.nba.com/news/kia-rookie-ladder-november-27-2024-edition

[Mugen]

This Lakers loss tonight reinforces my belief that Castle needs a true lead guard alongside him that has some burst.

Steph is more later career Manu with the herky jerky, hesi game. Nice change of pace but we need that zip that Porky provided to really unlock the offense IMO.

[Donald Sterling.]

Thoroughly outplayed by the #17 pick :lol

[DAF86]

6MIli8gBC_4?si=1x88DIHPrGQzW1-E

[SpursGenius]

If a Wemby, Sochan, Castle, Champagnie, Vassell lineup works offensively, that could be a great defensive lineup, might even get to a top defensive rtg
waiting for this as soon as Sochan heals. We gotta limit CP3 Keldon, Collins and Tre minutes if we want to win.

[Obstructed_View]

you're not helping. are we talking about the fat guy that eats chimichangas?
Esteban is the Spanish name for Steven. Castillo means castle.

[Atl Spur]

This Lakers loss tonight reinforces my belief that Castle needs a true lead guard alongside him that has some burst.

Steph is more later career Manu with the herky jerky, hesi game. Nice change of pace but we need that zip that Porky provided to really unlock the offense IMO.

Nope! He just needs the reps to grow into the position ( hardest one to grow into btw ) at the nba level! It’s been less than 20 games lol Steph is way ahead of schedule….

[ambchang]

Not in terms of game, but in terms of role, Castle could be like Suggs, solid defender, good initiator on offence. I think Castle has a higher ceiling but then I am a Spurs fan, but if Castle can be like Suggs is now later in the year, or mid next year, I would be very happy.

[cutewizard]

Stephon playing defense

CASTLING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

hehehehehe


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-Wxt-w9Efg

[SupremeGuy]

Castle is giving me young Kawhi vibes tbh.

Is everyone ready to explode when poop comes back, and shits all over the chemistry the team has developed?

[TrainOfThought5]

Esteban Castillo is great tbh :lol

top ten Spurs Nickname of all time Tbh

[spursparker9]

Castle is giving me young Kawhi vibes tbh.

Is everyone ready to explode when poop comes back, and shits all over the chemistry the team has developed?

Nephew was already at a different level defensively when he was in his rookie and sophomore year. He was able to give peak Lebron trouble at that time already.

Castle can guard Curry but against a much bigger 40 years old Lebron, Castle is still too light and small to defend Lebron well

[couchman]

Castle is a guard
Kawhi is a forward
They have some similarities but they are actually completely different players.
The only reason we compare them is because we are Spurs fans.

[exstatic]

Castle is a guard
Kawhi is a forward
They have some similarities but they are actually completely different players.
The only reason we compare them is because we are Spurs fans.

Positionless bball has been a thing for a while now.

[SupremeGuy]

Nephew was already at a different level defensively when he was in his rookie and sophomore year. He was able to give peak Lebron trouble at that time already.

Castle can guard Curry but against a much bigger 40 years old Lebron, Castle is still too light and small to defend Lebron wellCastle seems on a different level offensively to rookie Kawhi.

[couchman]

Sure but you shouldn’t gameplan for Kawhi to be the primary guy on Curry and you shouldn’t gameplan for Castle to be the primary guy on LeBron.
Physical attributes and abilities still matter for matchups.

[objective]

I was anti-Castle and pro-Sheppard. I haven't changed my mind on Sheppard, but have come around on Castle. Better than I thought and plays with more composure than most rookies, with better hesitation and control. Not crazy about the shooting, not an explosive athlete though that's where the hesi and body control comes in.

I was also pro-Holland who was known to be very raw, and that includes mentally. He's further behind in a lot of things but I still like his size and potential.

[exstatic]

I was anti-Castle and pro-Sheppard. I haven't changed my mind on Sheppard, but have come around on Castle. Better than I thought and plays with more composure than most rookies, with better hesitation and control. Not crazy about the shooting, not an explosive athlete though that's where the hesi and body control comes in.

I was also pro-Holland who was known to be very raw, and that includes mentally. He's further behind in a lot of things but I still like his size and potential.

Esteban Castille isn’t explosive horizontally, but his vert of 37 is above average. He’s not confined to playing below the rim, although he’s good at it. He’s a fairly ferocious dunker on the break, or when cutting.

[Pauleta14]

Nephew was already at a different level defensively when he was in his rookie and sophomore year. He was able to give peak Lebron trouble at that time already.

Castle can guard Curry but against a much bigger 40 years old Lebron, Castle is still too light and small to defend Lebron well

It was nephew's year 3

Castle hasn't played half a season yet and he's a lot more ready bbiq and fundamentals wise

Nephew had a robotic exponential growth tho, so let's wait and see in a year at least

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZL2QeaUUlok

[spurraider21]

Esteban Castille isn’t explosive horizontally, but his vert of 37 is above average. He’s not confined to playing below the rim, although he’s good at it. He’s a fairly ferocious dunker on the break, or when cutting.
eh thats his max vert when he can gather off two feet. different from having to jump off one foot while driving after taking 2 steps to get past your man. he doesnt get much oomph in those spots, instead just goes into the chest of the big... which isn't the wrong play per se, just makes it tough to score if he doesnt get a call

[cutewizard]

Just the first year

Let's see how he evolves next year

[DAF86]

5YAn2D1AMu8AiN9F

[Mugen]

I love the kid but jesus christ he can't shoot for shit tbh :lol

[Ice009]

No offense, as I am a huge fan of his, but I do not like his shooting. Some of those shots are just off. He seems very inconsistent with his misses. Seems like what they said about Tony Parker that he was shooting snowflakes where no two shots were alike.

[onechance87]

hes been in a big slump the last few games.Guy needs to snap out of it.

[Mugen]

Can't have a lead guard that can't shoot tbh. He needs a true PG to play next to him and I'm hoping the Spurs can nab one in the '25 draft.

[TekXX]

I remember Tony's first year, he couldn't hit a contested layup to save his life but then he came back the next year with the floater and he evolved from there.

[DAF86]

dCAdOYJZJ0c?si=7AMIn0k5xL989Iws

[Ice009]

I remember Tony's first year, he couldn't hit a contested layup to save his life but then he came back the next year with the floater and he evolved from there.

I really, really do like him overall as a player, but man, it's driving me a bit crazy seeing such inconsistent misses. Well, firstly, I'd rather he make the shot, but I just want to see some consistency in his misses. They just seem all over the place. For me, it was usually long at the back rim or sometimes short, I tried to keep the accuracy and not have it go all over the place. I can understand if the shot's rushed, but if not, he should have some consistency. To be able to become a good shooter, you need consistency (even in the misses).

Anyway, pretty happy with him so far and I hope he keeps improving throughout this season.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

If Castle had even a semblance of a shot he wouldn’t have been available at 4. We all have to live through it until he hopefully develops. What is great early on is that he’s a net positive in most games even without it and I for one am truly amazed by it. Kid seems to have his head screwed on right.

[couchman]

That short jumper that he air balled was… oof!
His form seems ok which is concerning and makes me think the problem is mental.
That’s a little tougher to fix if true.
At least he’s not hesitant to fire away.
Wemby chucking is rubbing off on a good way I guess? :spin

[ambchang]

Castle has exceeded my expectations of him in every way, and yes, even shooting.

I thought he’d be sochan rookie bad in shooting but he has been better. His form looks good, just that it’s different every time. He just has to consistently shoot them to make it a muscle reflex.

I had high hopes for his defence and he’s been even better. There are obviously still rookie mistakes here and there but his poise, positioning and strength is allowing him to guard PGs all the way up to SF, or even more perimeter oriented PF.

His passing is just elite, amazing vision for a rookie, his creativity is also amazing. I still don’t want him to be a primary full time lead guard though as I think he can wreak absolute havoc as the secondary creator.

Just very happy with him.

[tim_duncan_fan]

Bro-bro has to, for the love of all that is holy, learn to shoot. It will be such a waste if he doesn't.

He couldn't help out there tonight because he couldn't score outside of 0ft from the basket.

Please get him a real shooting coach, Frost Bank PATFO.

[spursistan]

Wemby & Castle having a long discussion as they walk off the court last night.Posting this to say that I am starting to get this ‘Westbrook to Durant’ vibes with Steph and Wembanyama : a less talented, same age sidekick who gets drafted a year later with the 4th pick and goes on to become ‘a problem’ in his own right. That ‘AREA 51’ nickname is already a thing on big and even official NBA accounts on X.I appreciate that some have Vassell & Sochan as part of the core pieces, but if someone is going to graduate to become a Robin it will be CASTLE unless one the Hawks picks yield something which is not looking likely right now.

https://x.com/wemby210/status/1865966989321142776

[Seventyniner]

Ugh, this "Area 51" thing is really going to stick isn't it.

[exstatic]

Ugh, this "Area 51" thing is really going to stick isn't it.

Seems like it.

[tim_duncan_fan]

Ugh, this "Area 51" thing is really going to stick isn't it.

You hate it?

It's no lamer than "Super Splash Bros".

[poopbox]

Yeah Castle shooting is usually shit but the thing that matters most is his form is pretty consistent. He doesn't need to be a great shooter he just needs to be "good enough".

[Atl Spur]

The kid is doing great! Of course there is plenty to work on but he is way ahead of schedule

[spursistan]

Feels like Castle is one big scoring game away from grabbing momentum in the ROTY race. Both Mccain and Knecht have slowed down the past week or so. And i think now , among the rookies, he is playing the most "real minutes" against the opposition starters.

[Mugen]

Wemby & Castle having a long discussion as they walk off the court last night.Posting this to say that I am starting to get this ‘Westbrook to Durant’ vibes with Steph and Wembanyama : a less talented, same age sidekick who gets drafted a year later with the 4th pick and goes on to become ‘a problem’ in his own right. That ‘AREA 51’ nickname is already a thing on big and even official NBA accounts on X.I appreciate that some have Vassell & Sochan as part of the core pieces, but if someone is going to graduate to become a Robin it will be CASTLE unless one the Hawks picks yield something which is not looking likely right now.


I hope not since Westbrook basically ran KD out of OKC :lol

[Seventyniner]

You hate it?

It's no lamer than "Super Splash Bros".

Yes, I hate it. I didn't like "Splash Bros" or "Super Splash Bros" either. But enough of my "old man yells at kitschy nicknames" rant.

[spurraider21]

he almost choked the game away tbh. they're giving him quite a bit of rope to work through the growing pains

[BatManu20]

he almost choked the game away tbh. they're giving him quite a bit of rope to work through the growing pains

As they should tbh. Not like we're competing for anything this season. Let these young guys get their reps and play through their mistakes. Worst case scenario, we lose a few more games in a developmental season and wind up with a higher draft pick.

[BatManu20]

Feels like Castle is one big scoring game away from grabbing momentum in the ROTY race. Both Mccain and Knecht have slowed down the past week or so. And i think now , among the rookies, he is playing the most "real minutes" against the opposition starters.

It's definitely a wide open race right now. Hopefully that motivates Castle and he becomes more aggressive and starts to shoot at a better clip. Jared McCain is still the frontrunner imo despite playing on an awful team. Jaylen Wells is prob 2nd. But Castle is right there in the mix as well.

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=io0O9Wx8mr0

[DAF86]

uX_T28cj4i4?si=1avEgHRko3U5RsfU

[ace3g]

https://x.com/NBA/status/1866901385108693475

[ginobilized]

Head-to-head matchups will be vital in propelling Castle ahead of McCain. Much like last season.

[DAF86]

Castle needs one 30 pts game for the narrative to start going his way.

Although, watchout for Wells if the Grizzlies finish in the top 4 of the WCF.

[TekXX]

If it's close between McCain and Castle i feel McCain gets it but Castle going to Connecticut might keep him on the radar of the east coast media. I agree though he needs some big games to shake up that narrative.

[John B]

Devin needs to stay on 2nd squad if Castle is going to continue getting touches with the SL. I don’t like the 2nd scenario of Castle playing backup PG getting, touches but not starting.

[spurraider21]

Castle needs one 30 pts game for the narrative to start going his way.

Although, watchout for Wells if the Grizzlies finish in the top 4 of the WCF.
that or just keep doing what he's doing with better efficiency. 39/28/74 splits are always going to be ugly on the eyes

[spursparker9]

McCain is back to bench. As long as Mitch or Pop allow Castle to play starter min, he will win ROY

[mudyez]

Bill Simmons and Ben Taylor both mentioned Castle and both really like him. He already is in the running.

[ismael-robert]

What could spurs have turned mccain into

[exstatic]

What could spurs have turned mccain into

People falling in love with players putting up numbers on shit teams. This is exactly how Michael Carter-Williams won ROTY, for the same damn TEAM, and was out of the league a few years later.

[scott]

What could spurs have turned mccain into

A G-Leaguer

[John B]

Castle out for the Blazers game with shoulder contusion. I hope he gets back fast.

[Ice009]

Darn, how serious is a should contusion? Is that just a day to day thing?

[TrainOfThought5]

Castle out for the Blazers game with shoulder contusion. I hope he gets back fast.

Damn I’ll be at the game tonight

[cutewizard]

Castle stands and rules

[DAF86]

People falling in love with players putting up numbers on shit teams. This is exactly how Michael Carter-Williams won ROTY, for the same damn TEAM, and was out of the league a few years later.

You mean like Wemby last season?

[exstatic]

You mean like Wemby last season?

Are you seriously comparing a generational talent to a mid guard selected in the middle of the first round? Wemby didn’t put up numbers, he put up eye popping numbers in combinations never seen before, and he wasn’t only playing because he was on a shit team.

[DAF86]

Are you seriously comparing a generational talent to a mid guard selected in the middle of the first round? Wemby didn’t put up numbers, he put up eye popping numbers in combinations never seen before, and he wasn’t only playing because he was on a shit team.

Of course I'm not comparing Wemby to McCain. I'm just exposing your terrible, homer, take.

If you think Castle deserves RoY over McCain, it can't be because of that hypocrite reason for Spurs fans.

For example, I think Castle deserves RoY over McCain because basketball is played both sides of the ball.

[spursistan]

Castle got shafted in December, tbh.
https://x.com/SpursReporter/status/1873750397552382332

[onechance87]

Castle got shafted in December, tbh.
https://x.com/SpursReporter/status/1873750397552382332

pretty bad choice from the coaching.Castle didnt deserved to be benched after he was playing so well.

[tim_duncan_fan]

He had four turnovers in 8 minutes last night.

He's been pressing since being moved to the bench, but that pressing and pushing the issue is not helping him make good things happen. The reason he was starting is because he was making good things happen, but recently he has had games where he strings several bad plays together in a row in a short time-span. He has got to add that mid-range jumper soon, rather than later, so that he can be a real threat again. Right now, everyone knows he only wants to run straight to the crowded paint, deep in the paint. He is making himself limited and too easy to deal with.

Add the mid-range jumper, bro. ASAP. Please.

[exstatic]

He had four turnovers in 8 minutes last night.

He's been pressing since being moved to the bench, but that pressing and pushing the issue is not helping him make good things happen. The reason he was starting is because he was making good things happen, but recently he has had games where he strings several bad plays together in a row in a short time-span. He has got to add that mid-range jumper soon, rather than later, so that he can be a real threat again. Right now, everyone knows he only wants to run straight to the crowded paint, deep in the paint. He is making himself limited and too easy to deal with.

Add the mid-range jumper, bro. ASAP. Please.

He stunk on ice last night. Spurs had 9 turnovers for the game, and he had four of them in limited minutes.

I think what it comes down to is when he starts, he’s considered the 5th option, and isn’t really paid attention to. When he comes off the bench, he’s higher in the pecking order, they’re paying attention to him, and he’s struggling with that.

[LeBowen]

He stunk on ice last night. Spurs had 9 turnovers for the game, and he had four of them in limited minutes.

I think what it comes down to is when he starts, he’s considered the 5th option, and isn’t really paid attention to. When he comes off the bench, he’s higher in the pecking order, they’re paying attention to him, and he’s struggling with that.

While he was awful last night, he played just 13 minutes in Phily with 7-9 FG. That just kills a rookie.
Meanwhile Keldon played 21 minutes in that game and put up 4/1/2.
Tre played 14 minutes and had 2/3/2.

Just can't fucking happen, no matter the circumstances.

[RC_Drunkford]

He‘s more effective playing with CP3 in the backcourt.
Mitch has to play better line ups

[spurraider21]

the reason castle looked better as a starter was becaue he was surrounded by shooters. he was starting alongside Wemby, Barnes, Champagnie, and Paul, all of whom can shoot. getting more minutes alongside Tre, Bassey, Keldon is going to make it tougher to mask his own shooting issue

[scott]

the reason castle looked better as a starter was becaue he was surrounded by shooters. he was starting alongside Wemby, Barnes, Champagnie, and Paul, all of whom can shoot. getting more minutes alongside Tre, Bassey, Keldon is going to make it tougher to mask his own shooting issue

To your point:

https://i.redd.it/75c929gyi0ae1.png

[LeBowen]

To your point:

You know what's the worst thing? Not only that we don't need Keldon, but even Mamu would probably be more useful than him. Clearly a better shooter right now and he can't be any worse defensively. Awful lack of athleticism, but at least he's smart and won't look like an idiot out there.

I can't believe I'll have to change my avatar to Keldon, tbh.

[exstatic]

While he was awful last night, he played just 13 minutes in Phily with 7-9 FG. That just kills a rookie.
Meanwhile Keldon played 21 minutes in that game and put up 4/1/2.
Tre played 14 minutes and had 2/3/2.

Just can't fucking happen, no matter the circumstances.

I’m not a fan of Tre getting minutes, and think he needs the Devonte treatment. He’s a direct competitor for minutes with Stephon.

[rascal]

People in here told me how great a shooter Sheppard was going to be. He's shooting just 32% and 28% from 3 in 11 minutes a game and doing little else.

[CGD]

People in here told me how great a shooter Sheppard was going to be. He's shooting just 32% and 28% from 3 in 11 minutes a game and doing little else.

Jimmer gonna Jimmer at the next level. Here’s hoping he masters the quick release. It’s doable.

[Raven]

the reason castle looked better as a starter was becaue he was surrounded by shooters. he was starting alongside Wemby, Barnes, Champagnie, and Paul, all of whom can shoot. getting more minutes alongside Tre, Bassey, Keldon is going to make it tougher to mask his own shooting issue

it sounds like the easy take, but i'm pretty sure that is not entirely the case. He is just playing like dogshit, it is not the shooting, playing passive with the ball or overly aggressive with predictable penetrations. Players now know he's go to move is going to rim, and given he has neither elite size or athleticism, it becomes a given he'll get blocked a lot. He should be fine learning when to go to the rim and when not, but it is not the shooting, he wouldn't get blocked any less if shooters made their shots. He is also showing the glaring weaknesses on the defensive end that i have been yapping for a while now, namely getting bullied in the paint and not having the size to contest anyone but pgs, but unfortunately he has also shown poor game awareness in the last few games, and i mostly blame mitch for it.

[Atl Spur]

He’s just earning his stripes, nothing more nothing less. A young man just learning all his lessons on the fly…. It’ll slow down for him in due time. The fact that he’s shown so much promise this early should have all fans excited vs clutching pearls / over analyzing the 20 year old.

[John B]

Mitch had the team clicking at CP3, Champ, Castle, Barnes and Wemby that’s a very balanced line up and our rookie was thriving surrounded by shooters.

The 2nd unit of Tre, Vassell, Johnson, Sochan, Bassey/Collins - was a perfect combination of motor and athleticism, with Devin able to get more opportunities as the 1st option.

Mitch needs the cajones to make the decision to start the rookie. Not only because he plays better, who is the future, plus imo is the best balanced combination. But fucking dumb. Sochan shooting 3 last night instead of Champ in there, Tre closing defending Brunson and Bridges torching the Spurs, while arguably the best POA defender in Castle was at the bench lagging 11 minutes. Dumb!

[onechance87]

Mitch had the team clicking at CP3, Champ, Castle, Barnes and Wemby that’s a very balanced line up and our rookie was thriving surrounded by shooters.

The 2nd unit of Tre, Vassell, Johnson, Sochan, Bassey/Collins - was a perfect combination of motor and athleticism, with Devin able to get more opportunities as the 1st option.

Mitch needs the cajones to make the decision to start the rookie. Not only because he plays better, who is the future, plus imo is the best balance. But fucking dumb. Sochan shooting 3 last night instead of Champ in there, Tre closing defending Brunson and Bridges torching the Spurs, while arguably the best POA defender in Castle is at the bench lagging 11 minutes. Dumb

yup i agree

[ismael-robert]

CIA tank

[spursistan]

Castle needs to stay starting. He is our 4th pick not some random 18th pick..He has shown enough promise to let him play through mistakes ..He should be lock for 25-30 minutes a night.. Mitch really lost it with him when Sochan came back from injury..

[100%duncan]

Castle needs to stay starting. He is our 4th pick not some random 18th pick..He has shown enough promise to let him play through mistakes ..He should be lock for 25-30 minutes a night.. Mitch really lost it with him when Sochan came back from injury..

Yes. Like a lot of people here said, if we're going to lose games, might as well give your 4th pick his needed reps during those games.

[ginobilized]

Tough game from Castle, love his steady demeanor, defense, strength going to the basket and some of his passes are way ahead of the curve for a rookie.

I really enjoy watching the team when he starts and hope that Sochan becomes a bench player before the season ends. Add a backup center that could shoot to the 2nd team and we'd have some options.

[spursistan]

Yes. Like a lot of people here said, if we're going to lose games, might as well give your 4th pick his needed reps during those games.
Deep down, Mitch probably knows that but the optics of benching the more senior player (Sochan) is what made him make the change as he doesn't have power to make it a permanent call. Both can't shoot, but Castle is the more creative player and near as good of a defender who thrives better while sharing the court with CP3/Wemby in his playing stint and has closed multiple games early in the season--something non-star rookies rarely do for winning teams.

[spursistan]

https://x.com/MJAcquiredTaste/status/1879045360653664285

[timtonymanu]

https://x.com/MJAcquiredTaste/status/1879045360653664285

Yeah I didn’t want to bump your “record with Sochan” thread cause I know sniffers will complain. But the stat is just too in our faces. God I really don’t want Mitch to fuck this up by going back to starting Sochan.

[Atl Spur]

Castle is gonna kill opposing pgs in the post…..his footwork down there is nasty!

[John B]

I love how he targets Reaves every time knowing he can bully him down every time

[RC_Drunkford]

Yeah I didn’t want to bump your “record with Sochan” thread cause I know sniffers will complain. But the stat is just too in our faces. God I really don’t want Mitch to fuck this up by going back to starting Sochan.

that "record with Sochan" stat is highly inflated by playing the tanking Jazz, Blazers, Wizards and Kings with Mike Brown 6 times without him. They would've won those with Sochan in the line up too.

[Maddog]

His trebuchet is still irregular-
He's now shooting .250 form 3 and .699 from the FT line

[Ice009]

that "record with Sochan" stat is highly inflated by playing the tanking Jazz, Blazers, Wizards and Kings with Mike Brown 6 times without him. They would've won those with Sochan in the line up too.

What is the record with Sohan starting and not starting?

If the Spurs are 11-9 with Castle starting, that's good, but it's not a number to base anything on by itself. You'd also have to see the quality of teams played compared to the W/L records with Sochan starting. Home and road games also need to be taken into consideration.

Great game last night from Stephon, though. He was awesome out there. DV was also solid too.

[quentin_compson]

I really liked that Castle did stay aggressive offensively after blowing two layups in the opening minute of the game. Apart from the shooting, that was a very encouraging game from him.

[Ice009]

I'd like to see Castle get a consisten mid-range shot going. I think that, and a floater would help him a lot.

[Manu-of-steel]

Nice game,rook! Castle bullied Reaves and Max Christie

[couchman]

Gotta admit Castle is way better than I expected. Much better. I love the kid.
And yet, the shooting is so awful and I am not yet seeing any signs that it is getting better.
Without that he tops out as a limited role player who can only play in certain lineups.
He’s just a rookie so give it a couple more years and hopefully he figures it out.

[Atl Spur]

Chris Paul gushes over how good Stephon is and will be as does Lebron! These two Hall of Famers know when they see a player! Give the kid a few year and watch out!!

[John B]

Chris Paul gushes over how good Stephon is and will be as does Lebron! These two Hall of Famers know when they see a player! Give the kid a few year and watch out!!

I’m not doubting it. The worst is he’s a poor man Jrue. It’s his ceiling that’s exciting, Kawhi 2.0?

[Atl Spur]

His athletic prime is 7+ years away :) Let that sink in

[DAF86]

He should really remain a starter, tbh.

They already set him back by sending him back to the bench, they can't do the same shit twice.

[paperboy77]

I love how he targets Reaves every time knowing he can bully him down every time

Castle going to the bench should be an afterthought by now. Wemby, Castle, and Paul are set in stone starters. You can discuss the others if you want. I say Vassel to the bench and keep Jeremy and Barnes in the first unit.

[ginobilized]

I'm a big-time Castle fan. I'm not, however, under the allusion that his shooting will improve this season. It just won't.
His scoring could, but, no way he suddenly becomes a better shooter.

The next few summers will determine his shooting ability, though, I've seen players continue to improve around age 30. Even Lebron has shown tremendous and steady improvement in his 3-ball over the last decade or so. Shooting is the easiest thing to improve. It just takes a lot of reps and a long time. He seems like a gym rat, so, I believe it will happen. One thing that likely won't go away is his ability to take smaller and weaker players into the torture chamber of the paint. He's a very smart player, he'll figure it out.

Oh, and for the 50th time, Castle should start. It just feels, looks and works best.

[John B]

Castle going to the bench should be an afterthought by now. Wemby, Castle, and Paul are set in stone starters. You can discuss the others if you want. I say Vassel to the bench and keep Jeremy and Barnes in the first unit.

Barnes >>> Sochan in the starting lineup with Castle. Sochan just cannot free-up the lanes for Castle with his inconsistent shooting. The question really is should Devin continue to start over Champ. Because I see Champ as a better compliment 3 and D in the starting lineup-up. Champ playing with the 2nd unit just doesn’t free him enough resulting to lowered production. While Devin in the 2nd unit can always create his shots as the option one. It just makes too much sense to start both Castle and Champ.

[spurraider21]

Barnes >>> Sochan in the starting lineup with Castle. Sochan just cannot free-up the lanes for Castle with his inconsistent shooting. The question really is should Devin continue to start over Champ. Because I see Champ as a better compliment 3 and D in the starting lineup-up. Champ playing with the 2nd unit just doesn’t free him enough resulting to lowered production. While Devin in the 2nd unit can always create his shots as the option one. It just makes too much sense to start both Castle and Champ.
i get the appeal of this, and its good to have some balance on the bench. ive discussed this same concept of vassell being a bench creator and champ being a better complementary fit as well

but the spurs roster just lacks firepower. while barnes has his occasional moments of aggression (last night they were spamming Barnes isos in the 4th with good success)... he has spent most of this season kinda just sitting near the corners. champagnie is also a pretty passive offensive player. Paul has usually not been very aggressive. so it would just be wemby and a pretty raw castle doing a lot of heavy lifting... i dont think thats enough

on a good team, youd have a vassell-tier (hypothetical vassell) scorer as a #3 option with your starters. think middleton with the bucks, after giannis/jrue, MPJ with the nuggets. the spurs just dont have a good enough roster to support a good enough starting lineup in addition to a serviceable bench. they really have been banking on Keldon being a true bench leading 6th man but he hasnt been up to the task. zollins also theoretically provides scoring through the post, but he has been bad.

[CorrectCrusader]

Castle should absolutely be starting.

[CorrectCrusader]

Barnes >>> Sochan in the starting lineup with Castle. Sochan just cannot free-up the lanes for Castle with his inconsistent shooting. The question really is should Devin continue to start over Champ. Because I see Champ as a better compliment 3 and D in the starting lineup-up. Champ playing with the 2nd unit just doesn’t free him enough resulting to lowered production. While Devin in the 2nd unit can always create his shots as the option one. It just makes too much sense to start both Castle and Champ.

I agree fully. Champ should be in the starting lineup over Vassell and Vassell can lead the second unit as the primary shot creator.

[LeBowen]

I agree fully. Champ should be in the starting lineup over Vassell and Vassell can lead the second unit as the primary shot creator.

Devin can lead the bench unit as a starter.
Keldon being ahead of Champ is a bigger issue.
Champ is our only actual shooter, but just Tre and backup bigvare behind him when everyone's healthy.

We really need to replace Keldon and Collins with a backup big and another solid 3-D wing.

[sfernald]

i get the appeal of this, and its good to have some balance on the bench. ive discussed this same concept of vassell being a bench creator and champ being a better complementary fit as well

but the spurs roster just lacks firepower. while barnes has his occasional moments of aggression (last night they were spamming Barnes isos in the 4th with good success)... he has spent most of this season kinda just sitting near the corners. champagnie is also a pretty passive offensive player. Paul has usually not been very aggressive. so it would just be wemby and a pretty raw castle doing a lot of heavy lifting... i dont think thats enough

on a good team, youd have a vassell-tier (hypothetical vassell) scorer as a #3 option with your starters. think middleton with the bucks, after giannis/jrue, MPJ with the nuggets. the spurs just dont have a good enough roster to support a good enough starting lineup in addition to a serviceable bench. they really have been banking on Keldon being a true bench leading 6th man but he hasnt been up to the task. zollins also theoretically provides scoring through the post, but he has been bad.

I completely agree but I really think as shown in this last game if Castle starts and is aggressive I think he can be that #2. Just maybe not this season but maybe next season after more experience and development.

[spurraider21]

yeah. i think the default staring unit should be Paul/Vassell/Castle/Barnes/Hector

i think you can then consider swapping vassell and champagnie, but i think you have to let vassell try to figure things out because he's just the better talent. as meh a fit as sochan has been with wemby, it would probably be even worse with bassey though. he theoretically complements Objectively Good though

[ambchang]

I mentioned earlier that castle should be paired up with champaigne and Vassell with sochan.

Castle has the vision and passing to spot champaigne, while Vassell can shoot and brick shots for sochan to rebound. This of course is based on castle and sochan should never be on the floor together unless they are up 1/2 points with 20 seconds to go and need a defensive stop.

Also, even though castle had a great game, keep in mind it was against reaves, who is one of the worst defenders in the league. Don’t expect castle to be a consistent 20/6/5 player soon, even though I’m pretty confident he can get there in a few years if the coaching staff don’t botch his growth like they did the other players.

[CGD]

yeah. i think the default staring unit should be Paul/Vassell/Castle/Barnes/Hector

i think you can then consider swapping vassell and champagnie, but i think you have to let vassell try to figure things out because he's just the better talent. as meh a fit as sochan has been with wemby, it would probably be even worse with bassey though. he theoretically complements Objectively Good though

It’ll be a Vassell-Castle backcourt after this season. Paul won’t be here forever. I like the 4-5 Sochan-Wemby pairing personally, but it doesn’t work with the other two unless the 3 is a sniper.

[MannyIsGod]

Castle needs to stay starting. He is our 4th pick not some random 18th pick..He has shown enough promise to let him play through mistakes ..He should be lock for 25-30 minutes a night.. Mitch really lost it with him when Sochan came back from injury..

Before last night he hadn't had a good game in awhile and had actually had some really bad ones. This team is trying to compete and I think the leash is going to be tight which is a good thing unless you want more uncompetitive players like Devin.

We need to be at a stage where minutes are earned. It's important for player development.

[spursistan]

Another starting opportunity for Castle tomorrow, hopefully he makes the most of it.


https://x.com/PaulGarciaNBA/status/1879310103389917597
https://x.com/SpursReporter/status/1879362821978550680

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Everyone can see that Castle should be starting. Question is, will anyone on the Simulator Crew figure it out once Sochan is healthy?

[Ice009]

Gotta admit Castle is way better than I expected. Much better. I love the kid.
And yet, the shooting is so awful and I am not yet seeing any signs that it is getting better.
Without that he tops out as a limited role player who can only play in certain lineups.
He’s just a rookie so give it a couple more years and hopefully he figures it out.

Yeah, this is actually a great point as normally I'd be all over a player's shooting, but for whatever reason, I really like his game and keep sort of not focusing on his shooting as much as I would with 95% of other players. People keep saying he has good form and even Sean and those guys are mentioning it, but some of his misses are off on the side of the rim, air balls or just off in various ways, and for whatever reason, I'm not getting upset about it. Maybe it's the rest of his game that is winning me over. He's also driving in/bullying his way in, and I guess I am liking that too (even with the results not being great sometimes where he gets stuck with nowhere to go and sometimes gets blocked or turns it over), as at least he is being aggressive and trying to get to the rim (we don't have a lot of players who can do this, so it's really needed). I would like him to be a bit more selective with those drives, but again, it's need as we don't really have many penetrators on the team.

And like you said,If he can become a decent shooter, he will be great.

I think I also like that he seems to be shooting with confidence, and as I shooter myself, I also agree with those guys that his form isn't too bad at all, but I do get suprised by some of his misses being off. I'd like to see him try to add a mid-range jumper and maybe a floater as I think that would help open up his game more. I can't remember a young Chris Paul, but wasn't he a pretty good midrange shooter? I don't remember CP3 being a great 3 point shooter right from the start of his career? I think he took more midrange shots? Stephon should also definitely be starting. Both he and the team seem better off for it.

[KobesAchilles]

It’ll be a Vassell-Castle backcourt after this season. Paul won’t be here forever. I like the 4-5 Sochan-Wemby pairing personally, but it doesn’t work with the other two unless the 3 is a sniper.
I will be so depressed and disappointed next year if both Sochan and Vassell are starting next year. I mean wtf would we even be doing as a franchise if that’s the plan going forward. Sochan is a high energy bench player. He just can’t be used on our team as a starter if we want to win. Vassell is just a brick layer. There’s nothing else to his game.

If we don’t make a fucking trade or swing for a big move this offseason then this team again won’t make the playoffs next year.

Objectively, the Spurs just standing pat and wasting the first 3 years of Wembys career is just stupid. Spurs fans like to bitch about contracts of other star players, their age, their supposed fit, which player is overpaid and whatever other nonsense. So they’d rather just stand pat instead of taking a risk. But the time to fuck up and go for it is when we have Wemby for 13 million a year. FFS he’s about to cost 50+ million a year going forward. If we pay a Jimmy Butler (not even saying I want him just using him as an example) 50 million this year and next year. We make the playoffs both years and get bounced in the second round both years or even just one year. Does that hurt us at all? What is the risk of even pulling the trigger for that trade?

If this was a bar, most of Spurstalk would be watching others take home girls while members like Splits would be saying nope elbow too pointy. And just go home alone with a nice bottle of lotion

[scott]

yeah. i think the default staring unit should be Paul/Vassell/Castle/Barnes/Hector

i think you can then consider swapping vassell and champagnie, but i think you have to let vassell try to figure things out because he's just the better talent. as meh a fit as sochan has been with wemby, it would probably be even worse with bassey though. he theoretically complements Objectively Good though

Sochan is a very good theoretical fit with my man, Big Daddy Val.

[scott]

I will be so depressed and disappointed next year if both Sochan and Vassell are starting next year. I mean wtf would we even be doing as a franchise if that’s the plan going forward. Sochan is a high energy bench player. He just can’t be used on our team as a starter if we want to win. Vassell is just a brick layer. There’s nothing else to his game.

If we don’t make a fucking trade or swing for a big move this offseason then this team again won’t make the playoffs next year.

Objectively, the Spurs just standing pat and wasting the first 3 years of Wembys career is just stupid. Spurs fans like to bitch about contracts of other star players, their age, their supposed fit, which player is overpaid and whatever other nonsense. So they’d rather just stand pat instead of taking a risk. But the time to fuck up and go for it is when we have Wemby for 13 million a year. FFS he’s about to cost 50+ million a year going forward. If we pay a Jimmy Butler (not even saying I want him just using him as an example) 50 million this year and next year. We make the playoffs both years and get bounced in the second round both years or even just one year. Does that hurt us at all? What is the risk of even pulling the trigger for that trade?

If this was a bar, most of Spurstalk would be watching others take home girls while members like Splits would be saying nope elbow too pointy. And just go home alone with a nice bottle of lotion

Halfway through your post a certain analogy occurred to me that I was going to respond with... and then you went ahead and just closed your post with it :lol

The fact that this message board has a section with a post where dudes just post and criticize pictures of models is pretty insightful as to the psyche of some of these characters.

[Ice009]

Sochan is a very good theoretical fit with my man, Big Daddy Val.

Didn't the Spurs really want to draft Valanciunas during that draft? I thought I remember during that time they were even considering trading for him or a spot to draft him during his draft night (I could be remembering way wrong on this, though, and maybe it was Toronto which asked for TP and they Spurs said no?)

[Ice009]

Sochan is a very good theoretical fit with my man, Big Daddy Val.

Didn't the Spurs really want to draft Valanciunas during that draft? I thought I remember during that time they were even considering trading for him or a spot to draft him during his draft night (I could be remembering way wrong on this, though, and maybe it was Toronto which asked for TP and the Spurs said no?)

[Raven]

putting sarr at the top of the ladder seems political more than anything

[Raven]

Everyone can see that Castle should be starting. Question is, will anyone on the Simulator Crew figure it out once Sochan is healthy?

i actually think it is mindblowing that someone would argue that because castle plays way better with the starters, that he should be starting..

[LeBowen]

i actually think it is mindblowing that someone would argue that because castle plays way better with the starters, that he should be starting..

It's not because Castle plays better with the starters, but because starters also play better with Castle.
He's also a really poor shooter at this stage, but unlike Jeremy he at least takes them and makes some.
And unlike any other starter, he can consistently get to the rim and more importantly to the line.
He takes advantage of mismatches way better than Jeremy.

Is he a great player right now? Obviously not, but every time he plays he's showing potential and since we got noone better, he must play 30 minutes every game unless he's completely awful.

[Raven]

It's not because Castle plays better with the starters, but because starters also play better with Castle.
He's also a really poor shooter at this stage, but unlike Jeremy he at least takes them and makes some.
And unlike any other starter, he can consistently get to the rim and more importantly to the line.
He takes advantage of mismatches way better than Jeremy.

Is he a great player right now? Obviously not, but every time he plays he's showing potential and since we got noone better, he must play 30 minutes every game unless he's completely awful.

Sochan is simply the better player at this stage, there's not much to debate.

[LeBowen]

Sochan is simply the better player at this stage, there's not much to debate.

There actually is if every single advanced stat shows our team plays better with Castle instead of Sochan.
I also dislike individual player comparisons because they're not playing the same position or role and neither is a star player, then it just becomes about the fit on the team.

But your entire gimmick on this forum is hating on Castle, so I won't even bother going in depth. If you're interested, you can check all the advanced on/off metrics by yourself.

[Knoxxx]

Sochan has been bothered by injuries and some indecisive play but he has also had stretches where he jumps off the court with his energy, like going for 12 and 6-8 REBs playing ten minutes in a quarter. Not lately, but again the injuries.

I think where we are headed is Sochan and Castle firmly being part of the 6 man rotation and seeing how that goes. Clearly Castle needs consistent playing time which appears to be a worthwhile investment. The odd men out are more likely guys like Champagnie and Jones.
.

[Raven]

There actually is if every single advanced stat shows our team plays better with Castle instead of Sochan.
I also dislike individual player comparisons because they're not playing the same position or role and neither is a star player, then it just becomes about the fit on the team.

But your entire gimmick on this forum is hating on Castle, so I won't even bother going in depth. If you're interested, you can check all the advanced on/off metrics by yourself.

i actually like castle a lot, but there is no denying that he currently can't defend in the paint and his offensive game is going to the rim in a very predictable manner.

[Knoxxx]

Castle plays a bit too low to the floor at times. Doesn’t want to use any lift and hang in the air on his drives, but rather hesitate and euro step. That can be scouted and stopped. He needs to mix it up more and not be too predictable, jump and hang in the air some of the time, not exclusively try to be crafty. He is predictably crafty, which ends up being not a crafty approach. He’s athletic enough for that to be an asset but doesn’t use it enough.

[CorrectCrusader]

Castle plays a bit too low to the floor at times. Doesn’t want to use any lift and hang in the air on his drives, but rather hesitate and euro step. That can be scouted and stopped. He needs to mix it up more and not be too predictable, jump and hang in the air some of the time, not exclusively try to be crafty. He is predictably crafty, which ends up being not a crafty approach. He’s athletic enough for that to be an asset but doesn’t use it enough.

Well, you got what you asked for

[Knoxxx]

I couldn’t watch the game fortunately, but sounds like the Castle highlights and Wemby’s blocks will be worth seeing. This team needs to stay a bit below .500 then tank hard at the last.

[spursistan]

Kid looked like he wanted it more than Wemby out there. Absolute stud and a certified future core piece..

[rascal]

Sochan is simply the better player at this stage, there's not much to debate.

I wouldn't say that. Castle is a rookie and Sochan is in his third year.

Castle brought the Spurs back in the Laker game in the third quarter and was key in that win.

[CorrectCrusader]

i actually like castle a lot, but there is no denying that he currently can't defend in the paint and his offensive game is going to the rim in a very predictable manner.

a guard can't defend in the paint???
:clap

[Knoxxx]

My only gripe with Castle was two of nine from 3. That seems like settling for too many 3s. But, all he has to do is go 4 of 9 and he’s a star so might as well keep practicing them while padding our loss total.

Edit: seems possible Castle could take over starting PG from Paul as soon as next season. But, chances are we will see Paul for at least another.

[tim_duncan_fan]

My only gripe with Castle was two of nine from 3. That seems like settling for too many 3s. But, all he has to do is go 4 of 9 and he’s a star so might as well keep practicing them while padding our loss total.

He already struggles because he can't shoot, which also means he can't shy away from him. He will take his shots at the rim, because that's the game he is comfortable with, but he must threaten from distance or the attacks at the rim will be completely shut off. Luckily, he is aware that he is 100% figured out and solved if he doesn't have a 3, so I think he will work on it in the coming off-seasons of his career. Bottom line is that he has to be confident and put the threes up, make or miss.

[rascal]

My only gripe with Castle was two of nine from 3. That seems like settling for too many 3s. But, all he has to do is go 4 of 9 and he’s a star so might as well keep practicing them while padding our loss total.

Edit: seems possible Castle could take over starting PG from Paul as soon as next season. But, chances are we will see Paul for at least another.

Hope Paul is not here next year. Need to move forward with the young guys next year. Paul will be 40 next year and is about to go off the cliff.

[Knoxxx]

Well, you got what you asked for

The highlights look nice. He has been holding back, playing like he’s 35+ years old when he’s only 20. Nice to see him actually jump a bit and to good effect that was what I had in mind. When you rarely ever jump but can you aren’t playing hard enough. Unless you are a lengthy big who is a genius at positioning like TD. Castle also plays too low on defense often. That’s probably what posters who say he can’t defend in the paint are referring too, his strong tendency to mainly just move his feet with his hands up. It’s good fundamentals but not flashy and he needs to be more flashy in spots to excel and fulfill his potential.

[CorrectCrusader]

Hope Paul is not here next year. Need to move forward with the young guys next year. Paul will be 40 next year and is about to go off the cliff.

Paul is still by far our 2nd best player by advanced metrics. No need to offload him unless we're trying to tank (our front office is too stupid to do that)

[Knoxxx]

Hope Paul is not here next year. Need to move forward with the young guys next year. Paul will be 40 next year and is about to go off the cliff.

Paul’s lack of size and athleticism are glaring against any type of younger star PG, obviously the clock is ticking pretty quickly on him. I like the speedier plan where we try Castle as the starting PG sooner than later. We need to figure out if he can be that for us or we need to target a PG for the future in the draft. Better to know, since we need upgrades at most every other position. Castle being our PG of the future at least narrows down the need list.

[z0sa]

Castle's outside shot is the only thing keeping him from being a bonafide all-star, tbh. That said, it's a big-time struggle. His misses and makes don't have any rhyme or reason it feels like. Even when he's gotten 5 layups, it doesn't feel like that confidence extends his shot at all like some players. Luckily, he's just a rookie and has years to improve.

[onechance87]

Hope Paul is not here next year. Need to move forward with the young guys next year. Paul will be 40 next year and is about to go off the cliff.

you must not watch games to make that statement.Hes maybe our second most important player
behind wemby this season.

[rascal]

you must not watch games to make that statement.Hes maybe our second most important player
behind wemby this season.

If the Spurs are relying on 40 year old Paul next year they are in trouble.

[Knoxxx]

you must not watch games to make that statement.Hes maybe our second most important player behind wemby this season.

You are focusing in the now. Sure, Paul is raising our BBIQ importantly from being the dumbest team in the league. Which gets us to a ceiling of being a .500 ball club. So sure, 20 more wins is far from anything to sneeze at. But then he’s 40, then 41. That’s a short window and if the ceiling is .500 that’s meh. We aren’t winning anything important with Paul this season or next. He’s mainly a player coach teaching a very young team not to be idiots. His ceiling is not high enough at the PG position nor horizon to not be thinking about his phase out plan.

[Knoxxx]

If the Spurs are relying on 40 year old Paul next year they are in trouble.

Yeah what he said! Now the jump in wins is also important for Wemby’s morale, we know that.

[onechance87]

If the Spurs are relying on 40 year old Paul next year they are in trouble.

alot of us have been saying this.Its not a good look.Castle needs to also prove to be a elite playmaker along
with improving his shooting.

[Bruno]

Whether Castle end up as a PG or SG is damn crucial for Spurs whole rebuilding plan. It will change a lot the kind of players Spurs will target.

[onechance87]

Whether Castle end up as a PG or SG is damn crucial for Spurs whole rebuilding plan. It will change a lot the kind of players Spurs will target.

we most likely gonna need a pg.Castle cant shoot,And is a above average playmaker.Gotta be great at one of them
and he is not.

[Knoxxx]

Sometime in the second half of the season sounds like the consensus is take the training wheels off Castle and the reduction will be in Paul’s minutes. As Bruno noted, need to know if BPA in draft being a PG makes any sense or not. We can always plan B this such as a trade or free agency, but the market for any experienced PG has been silly lately.

[BatManu20]

1879730339280798048

[Splits]

I will be so depressed and disappointed next year if both Sochan and Vassell are starting next year. I mean wtf would we even be doing as a franchise if that’s the plan going forward. Sochan is a high energy bench player. He just can’t be used on our team as a starter if we want to win. Vassell is just a brick layer. There’s nothing else to his game.

If we don’t make a fucking trade or swing for a big move this offseason then this team again won’t make the playoffs next year.

Objectively, the Spurs just standing pat and wasting the first 3 years of Wembys career is just stupid. Spurs fans like to bitch about contracts of other star players, their age, their supposed fit, which player is overpaid and whatever other nonsense. So they’d rather just stand pat instead of taking a risk. But the time to fuck up and go for it is when we have Wemby for 13 million a year. FFS he’s about to cost 50+ million a year going forward. If we pay a Jimmy Butler (not even saying I want him just using him as an example) 50 million this year and next year. We make the playoffs both years and get bounced in the second round both years or even just one year. Does that hurt us at all? What is the risk of even pulling the trigger for that trade?

If this was a bar, most of Spurstalk would be watching others take home girls while members like Splits would be saying nope elbow too pointy. And just go home alone with a nice bottle of lotion

:lol nice jab, I did laugh.

But for the record, I'm all for doing anything to put players around VW and using whatever draft capital necessary to do so. Also, love pointy elbows

[KingKev]

I will be so depressed and disappointed next year if both Sochan and Vassell are starting next year. I mean wtf would we even be doing as a franchise if that’s the plan going forward. Sochan is a high energy bench player. He just can’t be used on our team as a starter if we want to win. Vassell is just a brick layer. There’s nothing else to his game.

If we don’t make a fucking trade or swing for a big move this offseason then this team again won’t make the playoffs next year.

Objectively, the Spurs just standing pat and wasting the first 3 years of Wembys career is just stupid. Spurs fans like to bitch about contracts of other star players, their age, their supposed fit, which player is overpaid and whatever other nonsense. So they’d rather just stand pat instead of taking a risk. But the time to fuck up and go for it is when we have Wemby for 13 million a year. FFS he’s about to cost 50+ million a year going forward. If we pay a Jimmy Butler (not even saying I want him just using him as an example) 50 million this year and next year. We make the playoffs both years and get bounced in the second round both years or even just one year. Does that hurt us at all? What is the risk of even pulling the trigger for that trade?

If this was a bar, most of Spurstalk would be watching others take home girls while members like Splits would be saying nope elbow too pointy. And just go home alone with a nice bottle of lotion AKA DEVIN VASSELINE

[KingKev]

Whether Castle end up as a PG or SG is damn crucial for Spurs whole rebuilding plan. It will change a lot the kind of players Spurs will target.

Too early to tell, I personally don’t see him developing into a traditional PG but I think he is versatile enough as a combo guard where you could comfortably pair him with a scoring point like Fox or have him in the backcourt with a secondary play maker/ scorer like a Booker or Lavine archetype and not skip a beat.

[CGD]

Too early to tell, I personally don’t see him developing into a traditional PG but I think he is versatile enough as a combo guard where you could comfortably pair him with a scoring point like Fox or have him in the backcourt with a secondary play maker/ scorer like a Booker or Lavine archetype and not skip a beat.

I think this is right. Even if the shot comes along, the Spurs are still missing someone who can breakdown the defenses and get the activity started on that end. I’ve love Steph, but that’s not his game, and why the flirtations with Fox make a ton of sense.

[pad300]

Whether Castle end up as a PG or SG is damn crucial for Spurs whole rebuilding plan. It will change a lot the kind of players Spurs will target.

Not actually sure that it actually matters; 2 PG sets are a thing, and Castle is easily big enough to be in the SG slot defensively. PG's are more valuable than SG's on the trade market. You'd only draft the SG if you rank the top SG available ahead of the PG available.

[Bruno]

Not actually sure that it actually matters; 2 PG sets are a thing, and Castle is easily big enough to be in the SG slot defensively. PG's are more valuable than SG's on the trade market. You'd only draft the SG if you rank the top SG available ahead of the PG available.

Well, Castle not being able to play PG would complicate everything. You can't really pair Castle with a PG who can't shoot and, ideally, you don't want to pair him with a defensive liability. Finding that player will be damn difficult. Just by looking at current mock drafts, player like Fears, Traoré, Saraf, Philon and Fland aren't that great fit with Castle.

[scott]

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Nice that he got a career high and all... but I'm not quite ready to celebrate 9/21 performances where he posts a team second worst -14 (thanks for pointing this out RC_Drunkford).

There is a reason that MEM funneled shots towards him.

Good developmental game for Castle, and I'm still extremely bullish on him, but I'm not going to get too excited about high-usage, low-efficiency games from him.

[BatManu20]

Nice that he got a career high and all... but I'm not quite ready to celebrate 9/21 performances where he posts a team second worst -14 (thanks for pointing this out RC_Drunkford (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=53010)).

There is a reason that MEM funneled shots towards him.

Good developmental game for Castle, and I'm still extremely bullish on him, but I'm not going to get too excited about high-usage, low-efficiency games from him.

Agreed tbh. 2/9 from 3 killed us. They were all wide open shots of course as Memphis was daring him to shoot. He's a consistent 3-point shot away from being an All-Star caliber player though. Just needs to lock in this offseason and really get that muscle-memory going. It's times like these I really wish we still had Chip Engelland tbh.

[LeBowen]

Agreed tbh. 2/9 from 3 killed us. They were all wide open shots of course as Memphis was daring him to shoot. He's a consistent 3-point shot away from being an All-Star caliber player though. Just needs to lock in this offseason and really get that muscle-memory going. It's times like these I really wish we still had Chip Engelland tbh.

I was more frustrated at our execution than Castle missing threes which was to be expected.
He should've just attacked Edey, instead we ran the same sets that would've been ran if there was no mismatch.
As if we were practicing execution of certain plays rather than trying to win the game.

[spurraider21]

Agreed tbh. 2/9 from 3 killed us. They were all wide open shots of course as Memphis was daring him to shoot. He's a consistent 3-point shot away from being an All-Star caliber player though. Just needs to lock in this offseason and really get that muscle-memory going. It's times like these I really wish we still had Chip Engelland tbh.
memphis started the game with Edey defending Castle tbh :lol

[picnroll]

Castle is young and shows great. promise. I just wish his three point shot was more consistent and misses were closer rather than being all over the place.

[Ice009]

Castle is young and shows great. promise. I just wish his three point shot was more consistent and misses were closer rather than being all over the place.

Yep, I agree on all that you've said here. I hope he can become a constisten shooter. I'd feel a lot better about it if those misses weren't all over the place, though.

[Mr. Body]

Steph turned 20 just two months ago. He's got plenty of time to work on the shot.

[RC_Drunkford]

teams are putting their center on Castle to dare him to shoot and have an extra defender clog the paint who can then help on Wemby. Spurs need to figure out how to counter that.