How do McCain or Obama get to 270?

[MannyIsGod]

:lol


A few weeks ago Manny was wanting 3000 bucks on Obama...now while he may still be willing to do that, I guarantee you that at points since he originally made that statement, he's been glad no one took him up on it.


FALSE.

I wish someone had taken me up on it. I would have been free rolling. I'd put 3k on Obama here at 1:1 odds and I'd put up a smaller amount on McCain on intrade with something like 7:3 odds that were flying around then and I'd be freerolling on Obama with zero risk of losing money.

Whottt when I gamble I do so in order to win. I don't think I can do that move now because the intrade prices are nearly 1:1 last I checked.

[whottt]

FALSE.

I wish someone had taken me up on it. I would have been free rolling. I'd put 3k on Obama here at 1:1 odds and I'd put up a smaller amount on McCain on intrade with something like 7:3 odds that were flying around then and I'd be freerolling on Obama with zero risk of losing money.
Whottt when I gamble I do so in order to win. I don't think I can do that move now because the intrade prices are nearly 1:1 last I checked.


Ahh ok...nice angle then. Wasn't blind faith Obama was going to win though either...and I think that was the impression of many at the time you made it.

[2centsworth]

McCain gained 2 points in CNN gallup poll today....:bang


http://www.cnn.com/POLITICS/

Is all about turnout.

[TheMadHatter]

I would say at this stage in the race Obama has a slight lead in most of the battleground states.

The biggest worry for him is PA. He absolutely must win PA, but honestly Bush was AHEAD of Kerry in the PA polls at this stage of the game and still lost. That gives me hope that PA is probably safe, considering Obama is +2-4 pts in most polls. Still, too close for comfort....Obama needs to stretch that lead to +4-6 pts.

[Mr. Peabody]

ABC News/Washington Post Poll (Likely Voters)-

Obama 52
McCain 43


NET LEANED VOTE - LIKELY VOTERS

Other None Would not No
Obama McCain Barr Nader (vol.) (vol.) vote (vol.) opinion
9/22/08 51 43 1 2 * * 0 3
8/22/08 48 42 3 3 1 1 * 2
7/13/08 49 43 2 4 * 1 0 2

NET LEANED VOTE - REGISTERED VOTERS

Other None Would not No
Obama McCain Barr Nader (vol.) (vol.) vote (vol.) opinion
9/22/08 51 41 1 3 * * 1 4
8/22/08 47 40 4 4 1 1 1 3
7/13/08 49 39 2 5 1 2 1 2

[TheMadHatter]

^could be an outlier. we need more than just one poll.

[whottt]

No, Whottt is the ST equivalent of the Old Testament. Theres a lot of shit in the OT that no one preaches anymore because its scary and not very politically correct. You know, the Fire and Brimstone stuff.

Manny and Whottttt (to my understanding) actually know each other in real life (maybe at ST get-togethers "GTGs" I guess).

The way you see Whotttt speak with Manny is the way Whotttt actually is in real life. An intelligent yet opinionated person who is willing to engage people on a civil level, so long as they arent talking out of their ass.

The way Whottt posts here at ST is the polar opposite. An intelligent yet belligerent partisan who actively seeks your disapproval and baits with the simplest form of insult, name-calling.

IMO, Whotttt the real person is probably a person I would like speaking with because he is smart and opinionated, added bonus because his view on things is different than mine (call me crazy, but I dont particularly enjoy engaging people in political discourse who out-and-out agree with me on everything....but seriously, thats never happened in my life).

But the Whottt who posts here at ST is a guy I would probably end up getting into a physical confrontation with, not because I dont agree with him or that his view on things is different than mine, but because of his propensity to dismiss dissenting/opposing opinions out of hand with the requisite jabs at your intelligence level and requisite name-calling tend to boil my blood. I dont have sympathy for idiots, but I cant name one person in the Political Forum whom I would consider dull or moronic (maybe NASCARdad, but hes someone's troll).

I would call some (most) partisan shills, or aloof dickheads, but not dumb or stupid.

I approach this forum as the person I am....not the person I want to be or even the person I think I am, just me. All the flaws and leaps of logic, being wrong, feeling right....its all a part of it.

I was just convinced there cant be so many people in the world convinced of their own superiority. Alas, I came to ST and died a slow, ideological death.

As a real person I pretty much detest any sort of debate or argument, especially in a social situation....I avoid them like the plague. They just aren't worth it. And yes when I have them as a person I can be offensive...even when I'm trying not to be that way.

[MannyIsGod]

Nate from fivethirtyeight.com did some research on how including cell phones in polls adds a bit of support to Obama. (2% or so) Now pew has done some research as well and they've found the same. Most pollsters may be underreporting Obama because of this.

[MannyIsGod]

http://pewresearch.org/pubs/964/

[Crookshanks]

I was listening to Rush earlier and he was talking about this new poll. If you look at the number of people in each party, it shows why Obama's number is so high. Only 28% of the people polled were Republicans! I'm not going to believe any of these polls right now because I think they're slanting them to favor Obama.

And most people won't check the internals of a poll - all they see is Obama ahead by 9 points. IMO, this is done solely to bolster the morale of Obama supporters and demoralize McCain supporters.

[Findog]

They said the same thing about Kerry and cellphones in 2004. I'll believe it when I see it. Plenty of McCain supporters have cells as well.

[MannyIsGod]

Show me the internals of a poll that show republicans underrepresented. Feel free to provide links instead of "rush said".

[Findog]

I was listening to Rush earlier and he was talking about this new poll. If you look at the number of people in each party, it shows why Obama's number is so high. Only 28% of the people polled were Republicans! I'm not going to believe any of these polls right now because I think they're slanting them to favor Obama.

And most people won't check the internals of a poll - all they see is Obama ahead by 9 points. IMO, this is done solely to bolster the morale of Obama supporters and demoralize McCain supporters.

Rush isn't a pollster and doesn't know anything about party ID or weights. The poll is probably an outlier, but Obama is clearly ahead right now outside of the margin of error.

[MannyIsGod]

They said the same thing about Kerry and cellphones in 2004. I'll believe it when I see it. Plenty of McCain supporters have cells as well.

This time we have empirical evidence of the differences. Did they have that in 04 or where they just assuming?

[Shastafarian]

I was listening to Rush earlier and he was talking about this new poll. If you look at the number of people in each party, it shows why Obama's number is so high. Only 28% of the people polled were Republicans! I'm not going to believe any of these polls right now because I think they're slanting them to favor Obama.

And most people won't check the internals of a poll - all they see is Obama ahead by 9 points. IMO, this is done solely to bolster the morale of Obama supporters and demoralize McCain supporters.

There's your first problem. Rush likes to lie a lot.

[DarkReign]

As a real person I pretty much detest any sort of debate or argument, especially in a social situation....I avoid them like the plague. They just aren't worth it. And yes when I have them as a person I can be offensive...even when I'm trying not to be that way.

Well thanks for not insulting my intelligence and calling me a name, I mean that seriously.

Obviously, I was off base with my characterization. I expected as much seeing as my impression is limited to this forum.

Also, I have to agree about social situations. BUT, I do start them on purpose...not to espouse my view or even tell someone when they are blatantly wrong on some things (someone argued outloud that McCain was from New Mexico). I intitate them to get other people talking about politics, then I try my best to steer the conversation away from (random topics here, not necessarily real) Bristol's pregnancy, McCains amount of cars, etc. You know, the shit that doesnt matter.

I do a lot more listening than talking, believe it or not. Just to get them thinking is my aim...not thinking the same as myself.

[101A]

It think with McCain's move today, and the absolute hugeness of this banking issue - polls to this point might, and might not, mean anything.

[Findog]

It think with McCain's move today, and the absolute hugeness of this banking issue - polls to this point might, and might not, mean anything.

McCain pulled this stunt because he's losing and he knows it. He needs to "shake things up." It will be days before today's stuff is reflected in the polls.

[Wild Cobra]

McCain pulled this stunt because he's losing and he knows it. He needs to "shake things up." It will be days before today's stuff is reflected in the polls.

Polls are meaningless right now anyway. First of all, we are too far away from November. Second, when a poll consists of 48% democrats, 28% republicans, and disproportioally black...

Think that doesn't skew the results?

[Shastafarian]

Polls are meaningless right now anyway. First of all, we are too far away from November. Second, when a poll consists of 48% democrats, 28% republicans, and disproportioally black...

Think that doesn't skew the results?

I would LOVE to see Rush's source on that. Again, the man lies like there's no tomorrow.

[Findog]

Polls are meaningless right now anyway. First of all, we are too far away from November. Second, when a poll consists of 48% democrats, 28% republicans, and disproportioally black...

Think that doesn't skew the results?

The ABC poll is probably an outlier but the internals seem fine. And the polls are far from meaningless: McCain's sinking in the polls is what prompted today's stunts. One wonders what his internal polling is telling him.

[Wild Cobra]

The ABC poll is probably an outlier but the internals seem fine. And the polls are far from meaningless: McCain's sinking in the polls is what prompted today's stunts. One wonders what his internal polling is telling him.
Thing is, only the poll on November 4 matters. Polls have increasingly been innacurate over the years. Hear about the one that shows about 1/3rd of middleclass white democrats won't vote for Obama? I only heard about it. I'm not going to look for it, so don't ask me to.

[Wild Cobra]

I would LOVE to see Rush's source on that. Again, the man lies like there's no tomorrow.

Did Rush say that also?

[Shastafarian]

Did Rush say that also?

Yeah it's right above our posts. Where did you hear it?

[Wild Cobra]

Yeah it's right above our posts. Where did you hear it?

I heard it from a local radio news item. I looked it up:

Washington Post-ABC News Poll (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/polls/postpoll_092308.html?sid=ST2008092303897&s_pos=list)

Responants who identified themselves as democrats were 38%, republican 28%. Of the remaining 34%, 46% lean democrat and 28% lean republican. That makes a total 54% democrat vs. 38% republican, yet Obama only gets a 52% and McCain gets a 42%... Adjust those to the nominal voters of 45%/45%/10%other and you get McCain 50%, Obama 44%!

Think about what that means, and other details within the poll.

You will find that most polls are not as reported by the leftist media when you read all the internal details.

[Shastafarian]

I heard it from a local radio news item. I looked it up:

Washington Post-ABC News Poll (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/polls/postpoll_092308.html?sid=ST2008092303897&s_pos=list)

Responants who identified themselves as democrats were 38%, republican 28%. Of the remaining 34%, 46% lean democrat and 28% lean republican. That makes a total 54% democrat vs. 38% republican, yet Obama only gets a 52% and McCain gets a 42%... Adjust those to the nominal voters of 45%/45%/10%other and you get McCain 50%, Obama 44%!

Think about what that means, and other details within the poll.

You will find that most polls are not as reported by the leftist media when you read all the internal details.

Ok but you left out two important categories.

(ASKED OF REGISTERED VOTERS) Would you say your views on most political matters are liberal, moderate, or conservative?
Liberal: 23
Moderate: 41
Conservative: 32

Generally speaking, do you usually think of yourself as:
Democrat: 38
Republican: 28
Independent: 29

[Wild Cobra]

Ok but you left out two important categories.

(ASKED OF REGISTERED VOTERS) Would you say your views on most political matters are liberal, moderate, or conservative?
Liberal: 23
Moderate: 41
Conservative: 32

How many liberals do you know who call themselves liberal?



Generally speaking, do you usually think of yourself as:
Democrat: 38
Republican: 28
Independent: 29

At least this is a question people are more ceratin of.

I see the first point as irelavant. I found it laughable that 23% called themselves liberal, but 54% are registered or lean democrat. That difference between how one feels they are left to right vs. how they lean shows me people just don't rate themselves in an unbiased manner.

[Shastafarian]

How many liberals do you know who call themselves liberal?


At least 1.

[MannyIsGod]

K - lets just throw that ONE poll out since you hate the internals so much.

Want to disqualify the rest of the polls too? Go ahead and pick apart their internals.

I'll be waiting right here.




Notice, when Obama was doing poorly in those polls I didn't sit here and discredit them. I took them at face value. I really don't care if some of you do the same or not, but to sit there and blow off all of the polling data because you hate a single set of internals on a single poll is fucking idiocy.

If you want to come forth with true statistical evidence as to why we should invalidate certain polls then I'm all ears (look at my pictures LDO), but don't give me anecdotal evidence or evidence from one source and try to make a point about what is a spectrum wide trend.

[whottt]

K - lets just throw that ONE poll out since you hate the internals so much.

Want to disqualify the rest of the polls too? Go ahead and pick apart their internals.

I'll be waiting right here.




Notice, when Obama was doing poorly in those polls I didn't sit here and discredit them. I took them at face value. I really don't care if some of you do the same or not, but to sit there and blow off all of the polling data because you hate a single set of internals on a single poll is fucking idiocy.

If you want to come forth with true statistical evidence as to why we should invalidate certain polls then I'm all ears (look at my pictures LDO), but don't give me anecdotal evidence or evidence from one source and try to make a point about what is a spectrum wide trend.



I'll give you some anecdotal evidence...there were more registered Democrats than Republicans in 04...which is why many polls said Kerry would win. They were wrong. I think that's even more the case right now...

The Democratic Primaries were very exciting this past year, the most exciting primaries in history, while the Republican Primaries were a snooze fest.

I am a registered Democrat as we speak(and I was in 04 as well from voting for Gore) and I didn't even vote in the Republican primary this year.


That said...I have absolutely no proof that the polls are inaccurate other than the fact that they swing wildly, but basically it's just an extremely strong feeling. I'll concede that Obama is up right now...but I don't concede he's up by as much as the polls are showing....he wasn't that impressive last week. He really wasn't.

[MannyIsGod]

The polls did not predict a Kerry win in 04. Just an FYI.

[Wild Cobra]

K - lets just throw that ONE poll out since you hate the internals so much.

Want to disqualify the rest of the polls too? Go ahead and pick apart their internals.

I'll be waiting right here.

I would look into them more if they made the data available. Only some of the polls make that data available.

I have no desire to find the ones that list their internals in the past. I was responding to a question of a claim in another posting. However, I've looked into enough internals, that I believe they do bias them as they want to. Like I pointed out on that one poll, if they adjusted the democrat to republican percentages, McCain would win by about 50 to 44 rather than Obama winning 52 to 42. It's just how you read the data. Statistics are often misread, and I could actually be resing them wrong for that matter.

Again, only the Nov 4th poll matters.

[MannyIsGod]

:lmao

You're such a joke.

I didn't ask for excuses, if you have the data to invalidate the polls then provide it or kindly STFU (or admit you're talking out of your ass) IMO.

[whottt]

The polls did not predict a Kerry win in 04. Just an FYI.

http://www.pollingreport.com/2004.htm


And I call bullshit on that Zogby as well...that fucker did predict Kerry would win....by 2 pts IIRC.


Be sure to look at the Fox Poll BTW.

[whottt]

BTW, here is some more evidence posted earlier in this thread:

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2777222&postcount=591


If worse comes to worst I will default to the Rasmussn National....which was pretty much dead on in 2004...I can see Obama being up 3 right now, but up 5-9 points as some of these other polls are saying...I don't see it. Plus, there are extreme swings from poll to poll in some of these states.

[whottt]

More evidence the poll weights are off:

http://campaignspot.nationalreview.com/post/?q=MzdlMzI0NzY0ZTIwM2RiMTZlODgzOWExMjdiZDU0NTM=



Want more? McCain and Palin are outdrawing Obama in the same venues now...in a way that's indicative of the motivation to go out and vote as well.



Can you honestly say Obama pretty much saying as little as possible was impressive? It wasn't...in fact it was exactly typical of what has been hurting Obama recently...a clear trend of indecisiveness and overthinking in an attempt to say or do the right thing. It's real...

[Crookshanks]

Another thing to take into consideration with any poll is whether they are talking about registered voters or LIKELY voters. I heard a woman call into Rush's show today and she said at her daughter's university in Florida, the dems are actually paying the students to register to vote!

So yeah, the dems may have more REGISTERED voters, but will that translate into actual votes... I guess we'll see on Nov. 4th. However, history has shown that the younger people (18-24) are much less likely to vote than the older demographic groups. I brought this point up earlier when some people were laughing about McCain/Palin drawing an estimated crowd of 60,000 at a retirement center.

Put 60,000 retirees against 60,000 college students and see who has the bigger percentage of actual votes!

[Shastafarian]

Another thing to take into consideration with any poll is whether they are talking about registered voters or LIKELY voters. I heard a woman call into Rush's show today and she said at her daughter's university in Florida, the dems are actually paying the students to register to vote!

So yeah, the dems may have more REGISTERED voters, but will that translate into actual votes... I guess we'll see on Nov. 4th. However, history has shown that the younger people (18-24) are much less likely to vote than the older demographic groups. I brought this point up earlier when some people were laughing about McCain/Palin drawing an estimated crowd of 60,000 at a retirement center.

Put 60,000 retirees against 60,000 college students and see who has the bigger percentage of actual votes!

I dunno. How many of those 60,000 retirees would make it to the election? If you get my drift.

[whottt]

Thing is...I know beyond all doubt many more Dems are voting Republican in this election than Republicans will be voting Dem.

More Dems are going to vote for McCain than voted for Bush...beyond all doubt.

[baseline bum]

Another thing to take into consideration with any poll is whether they are talking about registered voters or LIKELY voters. I heard a woman call into Rush's show today and she said at her daughter's university in Florida, the dems are actually paying the students to register to vote!

So yeah, the dems may have more REGISTERED voters, but will that translate into actual votes... I guess we'll see on Nov. 4th. However, history has shown that the younger people (18-24) are much less likely to vote than the older demographic groups. I brought this point up earlier when some people were laughing about McCain/Palin drawing an estimated crowd of 60,000 at a retirement center.

Put 60,000 retirees against 60,000 college students and see who has the bigger percentage of actual votes!

If it was a secondhand source on Rush, it must be true!

[MannyIsGod]

http://www.pollingreport.com/2004.htm


And I call bullshit on that Zogby as well...that fucker did predict Kerry would win....by 2 pts IIRC.


Be sure to look at the Fox Poll BTW.

3 words - Margin of Error

[MannyIsGod]

BTW, here is some more evidence posted earlier in this thread:

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2777222&postcount=591


If worse comes to worst I will default to the Rasmussn National....which was pretty much dead on in 2004...I can see Obama being up 3 right now, but up 5-9 points as some of these other polls are saying...I don't see it. Plus, there are extreme swings from poll to poll in some of these states.

Thats not evidence the weights are off. Thats evidence that the Republican's base was becoming more excited. You're assuming the pollsters are not taking this into account. Show me the internals you think are off, Whottt.

[MannyIsGod]

Another thing to take into consideration with any poll is whether they are talking about registered voters or LIKELY voters. I heard a woman call into Rush's show today and she said at her daughter's university in Florida, the dems are actually paying the students to register to vote!

So yeah, the dems may have more REGISTERED voters, but will that translate into actual votes... I guess we'll see on Nov. 4th. However, history has shown that the younger people (18-24) are much less likely to vote than the older demographic groups. I brought this point up earlier when some people were laughing about McCain/Palin drawing an estimated crowd of 60,000 at a retirement center.

Put 60,000 retirees against 60,000 college students and see who has the bigger percentage of actual votes!

Ok, so use the polls only with likely voters if it makes you feel better. Check with those polls and tell me who's leading them.

[MannyIsGod]

Thing is...I know beyond all doubt many more Dems are voting Republican in this election than Republicans will be voting Dem.

More Dems are going to vote for McCain than voted for Bush...beyond all doubt.

Source of these thoughts that is outside of Whottt's head? If you want to believe this, then by all means you're free to do so. But that doesn't mean its going to carry much weight without some actual evidence for me.

[MannyIsGod]

I will agree that after the events of today and new polls are a bit dated because there will obviously be a reaction to this within those polls. I'm not sure which way they'll move or how much the movement will be, but we'll see.

[TheMadHatter]

The poll weightings are NOT off. The fact is MORE Democrats have been registered since '04 than Republicans. This is a fact. There are more registered Democrats in this country than Republicans.

Any pollster worth his shit adjusts the party ID to reflect this. Rasmussen is very conservative and gives the Democrats a +5 percentage advantage of Republicans, but most pollsters agree that the number is somewhere closer to +10.

[MannyIsGod]

The poll weightings are NOT off. The fact is MORE Democrats have been registered since '04 than Republicans. This is a fact. There are more registered Democrats in this country than Republicans.

Any pollster worth his shit adjusts the party ID to reflect this. Rasmussen is very conservative and gives the Democrats a +5 percentage advantage of Republicans, but most pollsters agree that the number is somewhere closer to +10.

These guys know how to do their jobs. There's a vast amount of data there and there's even a lot of raw data and even if you weight them more torwards the Republicans favor it still shows Barak in the lead just a smaller lead.

This isn't a small bit of data, its the entire spectrum of polling that we're seeing. I simply think its funny that people here love to point to something in one poll they think is off to try to discredit the entirety of polls.

[florige]

These guys know how to do their jobs. There's a vast amount of data there and there's even a lot of raw data and even if you weight them more torwards the Republicans favor it still shows Barak in the lead just a smaller lead.

This isn't a small bit of data, its the entire spectrum of polling that we're seeing. I simply think its funny that people here love to point to something in one poll they think is off to try to discredit the entirety of polls.



Thats what happens when the candidate you support is behind. You try to spin different scenarios to try to make the situation look not so bad.

[ElNono]

Thing is...I know beyond all doubt many more Dems are voting Republican in this election than Republicans will be voting Dem.

More Dems are going to vote for McCain than voted for Bush...beyond all doubt.

Opinion

[101A]

Thats what happens when the candidate you support is behind. You try to spin different scenarios to try to make the situation look not so bad.


We know.

Kind of like Dems were doing earlier in this thread.

Bottom line is simply that the country is going through a devastating financial crisis. The Republicans hold the White House. EVERYTHING else is academic. Incumbent parties do not win in situations like this. I just wish the country could rally behind a united "throw the bums out" banner - to throw Congressmen and Women to the curb!

What amazes me, despite the horrible news every minute on the crisis - is that this is still, at all, a race. Obama is a historically weak candidate, IMO. Don't talk about unfair campaign tactics, stupidity of American people; racism; all irrelevant. Obama has not been able to distance himself from McCain. He's got more money; he's got better press, he's got an historically reviled and unpopular president to run against, he's got an opponent not well liked by his own party and, most importantly, he's got a general feeling of doom and gloom in the nation working in his favor. And yet, he hasn't closed the deal.

Obama's gonna win; I just cannot see a scenario that suggest otherwise right now; but unless he changes the landscape significantly between now and election day, he starts as a weak president; with little mandate. He needs Congress to be succesfull; and if his mandate isn't any more than it's looking like it's going to be; it's gonna be tough.

Dems fucked up. Should have nominated Hillary. She'd have cut McCain's heart out by now.

[florige]

We know.

Kind of like Dems were doing earlier in this thread.

Bottom line is simply that the country is going through a devastating financial crisis. The Republicans hold the White House. EVERYTHING else is academic. Incumbent parties do not win in situations like this. I just wish the country could rally behind a united "throw the bums out" banner - to throw Congressmen and Women to the curb!

What amazes me, despite the horrible news every minute on the crisis - is that this is still, at all, a race. Obama is a historically weak candidate, IMO. Don't talk about unfair campaign tactics, stupidity of American people; racism; all irrelevant. Obama has not been able to distance himself from McCain. He's got more money; he's got better press, he's got an historically reviled and unpopular president to run against, he's got an opponent not well liked by his own party and, most importantly, he's got a general feeling of doom and gloom in the nation working in his favor. And yet, he hasn't closed the deal.

Obama's gonna win; I just cannot see a scenario that suggest otherwise right now; but unless he changes the landscape significantly between now and election day, he starts as a weak president; with little mandate. He needs Congress to be succesfull; and if his mandate isn't any more than it's looking like it's going to be; it's gonna be tough.

Dems fucked up. Should have nominated Hillary. She'd have cut McCain's heart out by now.



Yeah that I agree with you on.....:lol

[MannyIsGod]

We know.

Kind of like Dems were doing earlier in this thread.

Bottom line is simply that the country is going through a devastating financial crisis. The Republicans hold the White House. EVERYTHING else is academic. Incumbent parties do not win in situations like this. I just wish the country could rally behind a united "throw the bums out" banner - to throw Congressmen and Women to the curb!

What amazes me, despite the horrible news every minute on the crisis - is that this is still, at all, a race. Obama is a historically weak candidate, IMO. Don't talk about unfair campaign tactics, stupidity of American people; racism; all irrelevant. Obama has not been able to distance himself from McCain. He's got more money; he's got better press, he's got an historically reviled and unpopular president to run against, he's got an opponent not well liked by his own party and, most importantly, he's got a general feeling of doom and gloom in the nation working in his favor. And yet, he hasn't closed the deal.

Obama's gonna win; I just cannot see a scenario that suggest otherwise right now; but unless he changes the landscape significantly between now and election day, he starts as a weak president; with little mandate. He needs Congress to be succesfull; and if his mandate isn't any more than it's looking like it's going to be; it's gonna be tough.

Dems fucked up. Should have nominated Hillary. She'd have cut McCain's heart out by now.


I'll address this at some point in another thread I've been wanting to start dealing with asking people to post why they support who they support but one thing I'd like to say here is that how can the Dems have messed up if they win with Obama? Simply because you're of the opinion that Hillary would have won in a larger fashion doesn't mean much if you get in. Winning is Winning, ask George Bush

[101A]

I'll address this at some point in another thread I've been wanting to start dealing with asking people to post why they support who they support but one thing I'd like to say here is that how can the Dems have messed up if they win with Obama? Simply because you're of the opinion that Hillary would have won in a larger fashion doesn't mean much if you get in. Winning is Winning, ask George Bush


Winning is not winning.

The bigger you win by, the longer your coattails are. She, IMO, would have solidified leads in congress; she would have had more power - could have made Congress her bitch. You win weak, you can be a lame duck from just about day 1. Bill learned this his first two years; his Dem. Congress, more than anything made him so unpopular; so much so that the Dems lost congress in that 1st off year cycle.

[MannyIsGod]

Winning is not winning.

The bigger you win by, the longer your coattails are. She, IMO, would have solidified leads in congress; she would have had more power - could have made Congress her bitch. You win weak, you can be a lame duck from just about day 1. Bill learned this his first two years; his Dem. Congress, more than anything made him so unpopular; so much so that the Dems lost congress in that 1st off year cycle.

Its not that simple because Obama has brought in more money that Hillary would have. A lot of that money has been funnelled into the DNC and directly by Obama's campaign into states Hillary would have no shot in which can help out local races.

Really, nothing I saw showed Hillary having a better affect on down ballot races than Obama.

[Cry Havoc]

Winning is not winning.

The bigger you win by, the longer your coattails are. She, IMO, would have solidified leads in congress; she would have had more power - could have made Congress her bitch. You win weak, you can be a lame duck from just about day 1. Bill learned this his first two years; his Dem. Congress, more than anything made him so unpopular; so much so that the Dems lost congress in that 1st off year cycle.

And that's your opinion. Personally I don't feel that Hillary stood a better chance against McCain than Obama does. Hillary might have come out swinging a lot earlier than Obama, but would McCain have been so desperate as to pick a completely unknown as his VP to match the iconic stature that Obama has obtained? I think McCain runs a much smoother, safer campaign against Hillary. He doesn't need to reach to keep it close against her.

I think it's strange that people think Hillary would have things all wrapped up by now. Obama came out of nowhere with virtually no support to start with, and destroyed her campaign. She had no organization and clearly did not trust the people around her, as evidenced by the numerous changes she made in the middle of the campaign.

I see the polls close or with a slight McCain lead after the first debate, after which Obama slowly takes the lead and pulls away consistently until election time. That is, if the debate even happens.

[whottt]

3 words - Margin of Error


Margin of error is a factor in every close poll.

[whottt]

Thats not evidence the weights are off. Thats evidence that the Republican's base was becoming more excited. You're assuming the pollsters are not taking this into account. Show me the internals you think are off, Whottt.

I think all the internals weighting by party ID are off and I've given several reasons why...

There are more registered Democrats than Republicans right now, yes because the Democrats have pushed to register young voters and minorities, but also because of the 2006 elections, because of the Democratic Primaries. The thing is historically party affiliation hasn't been a major factor in Presidential Elections, and it doesn't mean everyone that registered Democrat over the past 2 years is going to vote for Obama.

You want proof? There were more registered Democrats in 2004...


You know what I'd like to see? I'd like to see a poll of newly registered Democrats since 2006...

Hell...did you not hear Rush encouraging Red State Republicans to go vote for Obama in the primaries? He did it every day.

Those are the only states Obama won in the primaries.

[DarkReign]

@ whotttt

I have seen you comment on the merits of Palin politically (in so much as she has obviously boosted the campaign and invigorated the base).

But what about her as policy-maker and breaker?

I guess my point is, I seriously dont think McCain is going to last his first term. I dont, there I said it. As you probably know, the POTUS is by far the single most stressful job the world has ever known, period. Just look at Bush Jr/Clinton/Carter pre-POTUS and post-POTUS. It grinds you to no end.

So, IMO, McCain will die in office if elected. I could be wrong (I sincerely hope I am), but I have no confidence in a 72 year old man who spent a good part of his third decade on earth in a POW camp.

IMO, Palin has a very, very real chance of becoming POTUS if the McCain ticket is elected.

What are your feelings on that?

[Findog]

Dark Reign, you're in Michigan. Your prediction for who carries the state, your gut opinion.

[whottt]

Source of these thoughts that is outside of Whottt's head?

That is the primary reason...but I feel I've been pretty objective in my reasoning why.
If you want to believe this, then by all means you're free to do so. But that doesn't mean its going to carry much weight without some actual evidence for me.

If you want some actual evidence check out some of the recent articles I've posted in this

For example this:

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2779765&postcount=658

Be sure to check out the Idependents in that article...not to mention the totals by party ID.


And contrast them with the votes by party ID 2004:


http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/states/US/P/00/epolls.0.html


Then tell me I am just pulling this totally out of my ass.



Sin,


A registered Democrat

[Findog]

But what about her as policy-maker and breaker?



<crickets chirping>

[Shastafarian]

Her as a policy maker/breaker?

She likes shooting things...so maybe a "No Animal Left Alive" initiative?

[whottt]

@ whotttt

I have seen you comment on the merits of Palin politically (in so much as she has obviously boosted the campaign and invigorated the base).

But what about her as policy-maker and breaker?

I guess my point is, I seriously dont think McCain is going to last his first term. I dont, there I said it. As you probably know, the POTUS is by far the single most stressful job the world has ever known, period. Just look at Bush Jr/Clinton/Carter pre-POTUS and post-POTUS. It grinds you to no end.

So, IMO, McCain will die in office if elected. I could be wrong (I sincerely hope I am), but I have no confidence in a 72 year old man who spent a good part of his third decade on earth in a POW camp.

IMO, Palin has a very, very real chance of becoming POTUS if the McCain ticket is elected.

What are your feelings on that?


I like her more than McCain...I have a more favorable opinion of McCain now because he selected her.

I think she'd a better President than McCain, or Obama, or Biden.


I think she'd be a more honest President.


I don't care if she knows how to be President right now...no first time President knows how to be President when elected...they always learn on the job.


The President elected most recently who probably best knew how to be President when he was elected, was Daddy Bush...fuck that, he sucked as a President....he got elected because he was running against Dukakis.




You guys are mistaken if you think she's only energized the conservative base...I'm not the conservative base. And I am definitely pro-choice, and by education I am a scientist, in fact I am a scientist that studies the origins of religions...and I know just how piecemeal most of them are...

Doesnt' change anything. I still like her best because I think she's the most honest, and I think she's got the most common sense as well.

[whottt]

What the hell has Obama done? How is he more qualified? He's not.


And you guys can deny it...but Obama is indecisive. He's clearly got a problem with that.

[Findog]

What the hell has Obama done? How is he more qualified? He's not.

Sorry, but I have to disagree here. Obama doesn't get flustered and end up looking like a moron in the presence of Charlie Gibson or Katie Couric.

[101A]

Sorry, but I have to disagree here. Obama doesn't get flustered and end up looking like a moron in the presence of Charlie Gibson or Katie Couric.


I didn't think Palin looked flustered.

[DarkReign]

Dark Reign, you're in Michigan. Your prediction for who carries the state, your gut opinion.

Admittedly, I am terrible at this.



Obama.



I say that because historically Michigan is a blue state (nationally, not on the state level though). I say it because I am in the auto industry and I know for a fact that the UAW is like the Bible to most of their ranks, and theyre for Obama.

I say it because we are probably the most racially segregated state in the Union. I sincerely believe the black population in the Metro Area (and statewide) are going to turn out to vote in historic, record numbers, and I have a pretty good idea who theyre voting for.

BUT, McCain is talking about Auto Bailouts, which is slimey, IMO. It speaks to him preying on the weak at their weakest, because after this debacle of legislation right now, I fully expect there to never be any sort of bailout ever again for any one.

That may have an influence. You also have the affluent Oakland and Macomb counties (a part of the Metro area). Most surely Oakland will go McCain (it used to be the 4th richest county in America....cant remember) with Macomb being a toss-up, IMO.

The Downriver Folk (thats people south, southwest and west of Detroit) are another lot thats hard to predict. Lots of hillbillies, some are red, some are blue. They throw a great party, but when your kids bus-stop is in front of a porno shop, something speaks to ignorance (seen that exact situation in Lincoln Park). The central and west portions of Michigan are important as well.

They do not rely on the auto industry like we in the east do (in some ways). Nor do I travel there very often to get a gauge. But the rest of mid-to-northern Michigan is red...thru and thru, to the bone, forever.

Democrat = Gun Control
Republican = More Guns

...in their minds anyway. Their problem is, they arent enough in numbers. Theyre sparsely populated, barely interested and completely unreliable to even go to the polls.

As for the Upper Penninsula, youd have to ask someone from Wisconsin about them. They call us in the Lower Penninsula "trolls" (we live "under" the Mackinac Bridge). They cheer for the Green Bay Packers and have annoying, Fargo-like accents.

[MannyIsGod]

I think all the internals weighting by party ID are off and I've given several reasons why...

There are more registered Democrats than Republicans right now, yes because the Democrats have pushed to register young voters and minorities, but also because of the 2006 elections, because of the Democratic Primaries. The thing is historically party affiliation hasn't been a major factor in Presidential Elections, and it doesn't mean everyone that registered Democrat over the past 2 years is going to vote for Obama.

You want proof? There were more registered Democrats in 2004...


You know what I'd like to see? I'd like to see a poll of newly registered Democrats since 2006...

Hell...did you not hear Rush encouraging Red State Republicans to go vote for Obama in the primaries? He did it every day.

Those are the only states Obama won in the primaries.

Thats not proof the weights are off Whottt. You have to look at each individual poll and see what they're weighting each party - IF AT ALL - to decide of they're off.

You can't just arbitrarily say the democrats are registering fewer people than they think to point out the polls are off. Pollsters don't just say ZOMG lots of NEW DEMS and then rate them at 70%. Most don't even weight the polls.

I'm getting annoyed at how often people just make remarks about how much the polls suck without providing specific internals to show the industry wide (allgedly) inaccuracies.

[DarkReign]

I like her more than McCain...I have a more favorable opinion of McCain now because he selected her.

I think she'd a better President than McCain, or Obama, or Biden.

[sic]

You guys are mistaken if you think she's only energized the conservative base...I'm not the conservative base. And I am definitely pro-choice, and by education I am a scientist, in fact I am a scientist that studies the origins of religions...and I know just how piecemeal most of them are...

Doesnt' change anything. I still like her best because I think she's the most honest, and I think she's got the most common sense as well.

That is a bad-ass profession you have there.

You seem to really be infatuated with her honesty, which is understandable.

But wasnt Carter honest, too (to a fault they say, I wasnt born yet)? Didnt make him any less incompetent, did it?

Also, I can see where your impression of her honesty comes, but where does your impression of her policy (which you didnt comment on) come from? It is my understanding after her nomination as VP, reporters and journalists alike had a hard time even coming up with opinions of hers on foreign policy.

Now she is being directly linked as a Rove and Cheney pick that McCain had to succumb to? Not only that, but in your opinion, is it good that she has been sequestered from the media?

I mean, you yourself has commented on the "liberal media" and that (I paraphrase entirely) "go ahead Dems, keep attacking her, reeeeal smart move, youre only helping her".

So by that logic, wouldnt it be best to have her in the media constantly? So as the Dems and DailyKos do nothing but attack, attack, attack and by proxy strengthen the notion that she is only being attacked because she is a woman?

My point is, it is my opinion that none of us know anything about her, beyond her RNC acceptance speech and her 2 interviews (Gibson, Couric). Beyond that, we only have her record in Alaska.

Obama is just as inexperienced as she is (federally speaking), I absolutely agree. But Obama was not nominated to his position 10 weeks before the actual election. He had to run his primary against a vet like Clinton, wherein his policy and will were on display (agree or disagree with him, at least you know him)...all over the news, everyday.

Its just to me, 3 of the 4 people in this race are known quantities, which I believe to be necessary. How you go about becoming a "known" is important as well. She has not gone out of her way to do that, by force or by choice.

And being the VP to the oldest man to be POTUS in history, coupled with health, is a little bit scary to me. Do we even know if she has a backbone?

Standing up to police chiefs is one thing, standing up to your party's leadership while sitting in the biggest chair in the world is entirely another. I am not saying she cant do it.....I am saying I dont know and she isnt helping that.

[Findog]

Palin is honest?

:lmao

That might be the funniest thing whottt has typed yet.

[TheMadHatter]

I'm starting to think whottt just likes to hear himself talked about, good or bad.

[whottt]

Sorry, but I have to disagree here. Obama doesn't get flustered and end up looking like a moron in the presence of Charlie Gibson or Katie Couric.

The fuck he doesn't...he gets flustered by softballers totally on his side....Isalmic Faith and all that.

[whottt]

That is a bad-ass profession you have there.

You seem to really be infatuated with her honesty, which is understandable.

But wasnt Carter honest, too (to a fault they say, I wasnt born yet)? Didnt make him any less incompetent, did it?

What made him incompetent was not that he was honest...what made him incompetent was that he thought everyone else was.




Also, I can see where your impression of her honesty comes, but where does your impression of her policy (which you didnt comment on) come from?

Because rigth now she has no policy at the National Level...she's just toeing the line on McCain's.

What I see in her policy as Govenor is fiscal responsibility and centrist social policy...and I like it. I like it a lot.

I also see her not thinking twice about blowing the whistle on anyone...





It is my understanding after her nomination as VP, reporters and journalists alike had a hard time even coming up with opinions of hers on foreign policy.

Her policy is McCain's policy right now...

She doesn't have a foreign policy yet other than non-appeasement...but seeing as how her son is in Iraq I am pretty sure she is commited to doing the right thing.



Now she is being directly linked as a Rove and Cheney pick that McCain had to succumb to?

Oh please...





Not only that, but in your opinion, is it good that she has been sequestered from the media?

Definitely...the media is provably corrupt and deceitful concerning her, see the edited parts from the Charlie Gibson interview for proof of this.



I mean, you yourself has commented on the "liberal media" and that (I paraphrase entirely) "go ahead Dems, keep attacking her, reeeeal smart move, youre only helping her".

So by that logic, wouldnt it be best to have her in the media constantly? So as the Dems and DailyKos do nothing but attack, attack, attack and by proxy strengthen the notion that she is only being attacked because she is a woman?

No...because they edit her comments in such a way as to where they can potray her exactly as they want to, without having to attack her.




My point is, it is my opinion that none of us know anything about her, beyond her RNC acceptance speech and her 2 interviews (Gibson, Couric). Beyond that, we only have her record in Alaska.

Yeap..and her record in Alasak was impressive until Google overwrote the internet 2 days after she was nominated...

That would be, Obama backer, Google.


Obama is just as inexperienced as she is (federally speaking), I absolutely agree. But Obama was not nominated to his position 10 weeks before the actual election. He had to run his primary against a vet like Clinton, wherein his policy and will were on display (agree or disagree with him, at least you know him)...all over the news, everyday.

Its just to me, 3 of the 4 people in this race are known quantities, which I believe to be necessary. How you go about becoming a "known" is important as well. She has not gone out of her way to do that, by force or by choice.

And being the VP to the oldest man to be POTUS in history, coupled with health, is a little bit scary to me. Do we even know if she has a backbone?


Of course she has a backbone...she played point guard(well).




Standing up to police chiefs is one thing, standing up to your party's leadership while sitting in the biggest chair in the world is entirely another.

She dethroned her parties leadership in Alaska.




I am not saying she cant do it.....I am saying I dont know and she isnt helping that.

Why don't you ask these same questions of Obama?



What is his policy now?

What is it on anything?


And unlike Palin...he's running for President.

[whottt]

Thats not proof the weights are off Whottt. You have to look at each individual poll and see what they're weighting each party - IF AT ALL - to decide of they're off.

Well I know the major ones are weighted.




You can't just arbitrarily say the democrats are registering fewer people than they think to point out the polls are off. Pollsters don't just say ZOMG lots of NEW DEMS and then rate them at 70%. Most don't even weight the polls.

Gallup does, Rasmussen does, Survey USA does...




I'm getting annoyed at how often people just make remarks about how much the polls suck without providing specific internals to show the industry wide (allgedly) inaccuracies.

LOL I feel have shown enough evidence to prove there is some merit to that line of thinking...and I'm not claiming it constitutes ironclad proof I'm right.

[whottt]

Palin is honest?

:lmao

That might be the funniest thing whottt has typed yet.

It's one thing for Palin to get lost trying to talk about McCain's policy in a hostile interview.

It's entirely another for Obama to get confused about his own policy in a friendly one.

[TheMadHatter]

It's one thing for Palin to get lost trying to talk about McCain's policy in a hostile interview.

It's entirely another for Obama to get confused about his own policy in a friendly one.

I said thanks but no thanks on that bridge to nowhere.

[Biernutz]

Pollster says election could end in landslide

The presidential election might be a tight race now, but one of the country’s top pollsters thinks the race will end in an electoral landslide.

http://www.democratandchronicle.com/article/20080925/NEWS01/80925009/1002/NEWS

[101A]

Pollster says election could end in landslide

The presidential election might be a tight race now, but one of the country’s top pollsters thinks the race will end in an electoral landslide.

http://www.democratandchronicle.com/article/20080925/NEWS01/80925009/1002/NEWS


...and not the one everybody thinks.

Interesting. But, I fear, wrong.

[whottt]

Pollster says election could end in landslide

The presidential election might be a tight race now, but one of the country’s top pollsters thinks the race will end in an electoral landslide.

http://www.democratandchronicle.com/article/20080925/NEWS01/80925009/1002/NEWS



Good to see Zogby catching up:


http://spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2751738&postcount=170




Interestingly enough...he has McCain up by 2 now. And that says a lot...because Zogby never leans right willingly.

[MannyIsGod]

Good to see Zogby catching up:


http://spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2751738&postcount=170




Interestingly enough...he has McCain up by 2 now. And that says a lot...because Zogby never leans right willingly.

:lol wut

Now you're just making things up.

[Cry Havoc]

:lol wut

Now you're just making things up.

He's been doing that for most of this thread.

[whottt]

He's been doing that for most of this thread.

http://rosemeadcenter.blogspot.com/2006/01/zogby-polling-bias.html

[whottt]

:lol wut

Now you're just making things up.



He's taken money from unions, his company protested a vote count unfavorable to the Democrats.

[ChumpDumper]

It's petty of me, but I can't take a blog seriously when it says something like "There are claims that Zogby, a polling giant in America, is bias in gathering research data."

[whottt]

It's petty of me, but I can't take a blog seriously when it says something like "There are claims that Zogby, a polling giant in America, is bias in gathering research data."


So you're bias against bad typers?

[ChumpDumper]

So you're bias against bad typers?Poor proofreaders. It shows a lack of pride and care if one really wants someone else to take the writer seriously.

[Cry Havoc]

So you're biased against articles which have been poorly constructed?

Uh. Yeah.

[whottt]

Poor proofreaders. It shows a lack of pride and care if one really wants someone else to take the writer seriously.

You sure did use a lot of words to say you are bias against bad typists

[ChumpDumper]

You sure did use a lot of words to say you are bias against bad typistsIt wasn't a typo and something that is easy to pick out and correct if one cares about such things. The writer did it twice in one paragraph.

[whottt]

It wasn't a typo and something that is easy to pick out and correct if one cares about such things.

And whether they do or don't has nothing to do with whether or not they are making valid points based upon factual information...regardless of your bias.




The writer did it twice in one paragraph.

http://rosemeadcenter.blogspot.com/2006/01/college-bias_18.html

I say he's just a shitty typist.

Wow...anthropologists in college have a 30-1 Democrat to Republican ratio...it's not as one sided as I thought. It's pretty amazing it's not worse given the tone of the textbooks.

[ChumpDumper]

And whether they do or don't has nothing to do with whether or not they are making valid points based upon factual information...regardless of your bias.I freely admit my bias. I am not ashamed of it. They should do better.




http://rosemeadcenter.blogspot.com/2006/01/college-bias_18.html

I say he's just a shitty typist.I say he's careless. If he doesn't care enough to proof his work, I don't care enough to read it.

His favorite movie is Toy Story too boot.

[TheMadHatter]

Barring a MAJOR performance in the debates this election is over. McCain is in crisis mode right now and is completely erratic in his behavior. His VP choice is blowing up in his face as she fails interview after interview. The Couric interview was just painful to watch at times.

The American public can see right through McCain's political stunts and they aren't buying the shit his selling. Obama has been able to rise above the fray by simply not entering into it. The latest MO state polls show Obama within 2 points of McCain......this is quickly getting out of hand for McCain.

It's no longer a matter of if Obama will win in November. It's about how big it's going to be. We could be looking at an epic landslide if McCain falls any further.

[whottt]

I say he's careless. If he doesn't care enough to proof his work, I don't care enough to read it.

:lmao I call bullshit, I am a much shittier typist than he is and you read my posts.




His favorite movie is Toy Story too boot.

Takes all kinds...

Point is...my Zogby opinion wasn't just made up...that was just a link to the majority of the speculation all in one place. That's why I posted the link...not because it was cutting edge op-ed.


If you want to nitpick...well, go ahead.

[ChumpDumper]

:lmao I call bullshit, I am a much shittier typist than he is and you read my posts.I don't take you seriously.
It shows a lack of pride and care if one really wants someone else to take the writer seriously.

[whottt]

Obama makes more typos than McCain.


Fact.

[ChumpDumper]

Obama makes more typos than McCain.Where is your proof of this?

[whottt]

Where is your proof of this?

:lol boy are we out of touch.

[MannyIsGod]

Palin:Interviews as McCain:typing

[DarkReign]

What made him incompetent was not that he was honest...what made him incompetent was that he thought everyone else was.

[sic]

Of course she has a backbone...she played point guard(well).

She dethroned her parties leadership in Alaska.

Some of the points you made sound like conspiracy theory. "Google this, Gibson that, Couric this, media that". You seem to making excuses on her behalf.

All in all, this entire exchange is why the VP debate will be the end-all, be-all for me concerning Palin. If she does well, I'll believe the hype. If she falls on her face like those interviews show her doing, then she'll go down as the worst pick for VP in my lifetime, if not all time.



Why don't you ask these same questions of Obama?

What is his policy now?

What is it on anything?

And unlike Palin...he's running for President.

I have and so have "they". Obama is nothing if not properly and thoroughly vetted. He had the Clintons all over his jock for 10 months, then after removing said polyp, he replaced it with the Republican party and its new line of attack.

I say all that and I want you to know that him being grilled for over year is completely necessary. He needed to be pressured, to be bullied, to be attacked, to be completely exposed to the civilized world.

You know what? He passes the "patriot-o-meter". Hes not a terrorist, hes not an Islamic sympathizer and no, he will not ruin the country.

Flipside...

McCain has been a known quantity since 2000, although he has changed drastically since. He had a cakewalk of a primary where the shit-slinging wasnt nearly as heavy as the Dems. Understandable though, the other guys werent electable IMO. Not well enough known. McCain is the "mavrick" that I would have voted for in 2000 in a heartbeat.

The Democrats have nothing on McCain that hasnt already been exposed, so he is devoid of any surprises, which is the big reason why I think he got the nomination. His dirty laundry has been public since before 2000. A known quantity with newfound traditional conservative platforms to run on.

As I said, VPs usually mean nothing. Theyre usually only used as a political tool to garner a certain demographics vote. After that, they play Monday morning quarterback for 4 years.

Its my belief that this is not the case in either campaign.

I still believe America is deeply racist, as evidenced by people flat-out saying theyd never vote for a black person (these are the same people that couldnt believe Jesus didnt have their white skin either). His chances of being assassinated are high, just in my opinion. I sincerely hope I am wrong. I would love to be wrong.

McCain...well, do we have to rehash it? Dude is old, he spent a long time in a POW camp, God bless him, hes lost movement in his neck and arm, etc.

He could seriously be dead before inauguration.

Which makes both VPs very important, IMO, Palin even moreso. Obama goes nowhere unless he is murdered...McCain could drop dead walking to the bathroom. Big difference.

So I am sorry, her not doing interviews is counter-intuitive and reeks of secrecy. Whats the big fucking secret? Is she dumb? Is she brash? Is she ignorant? All of these things have yet to be answered and she is not willing to answer them (unless, she is being held against her will).

I find it despicable and counter to everything a free and open government stands for. Why am I not surprised you dont.....

[Mr. Peabody]

Palin:Interviews as McCain:typing

:lmao

Nice.

[Mr. Peabody]

So I am sorry, her not doing interviews is counter-intuitive and reeks of secrecy. Whats the big fucking secret? Is she dumb? Is she brash? Is she ignorant? All of these things have yet to be answered and she is not willing to answer them (unless, she is being held against her will).

I find it despicable and counter to everything a free and open government stands for. Why am I not surprised you dont.....

Great post. All of it.

I just didn't want to quote the whole thing.

[whottt]

Some of the points you made sound like conspiracy theory. "Google this, Gibson that, Couric this, media that". You seem to making excuses on her behalf.

All in all, this entire exchange is why the VP debate will be the end-all, be-all for me concerning Palin. If she does well, I'll believe the hype. If she falls on her face like those interviews show her doing, then she'll go down as the worst pick for VP in my lifetime, if not all time.




I have and so have "they". Obama is nothing if not properly and thoroughly vetted. He had the Clintons all over his jock for 10 months, then after removing said polyp, he replaced it with the Republican party and its new line of attack.

I say all that and I want you to know that him being grilled for over year is completely necessary. He needed to be pressured, to be bullied, to be attacked, to be completely exposed to the civilized world.

You know what? He passes the "patriot-o-meter". Hes not a terrorist, hes not an Islamic sympathizer and no, he will not ruin the country.

Flipside...

McCain has been a known quantity since 2000, although he has changed drastically since. He had a cakewalk of a primary where the shit-slinging wasnt nearly as heavy as the Dems. Understandable though, the other guys werent electable IMO. Not well enough known. McCain is the "mavrick" that I would have voted for in 2000 in a heartbeat.

The Democrats have nothing on McCain that hasnt already been exposed, so he is devoid of any surprises, which is the big reason why I think he got the nomination. His dirty laundry has been public since before 2000. A known quantity with newfound traditional conservative platforms to run on.

As I said, VPs usually mean nothing. Theyre usually only used as a political tool to garner a certain demographics vote. After that, they play Monday morning quarterback for 4 years.

Its my belief that this is not the case in either campaign.

I still believe America is deeply racist, as evidenced by people flat-out saying theyd never vote for a black person (these are the same people that couldnt believe Jesus didnt have their white skin either). His chances of being assassinated are high, just in my opinion. I sincerely hope I am wrong. I would love to be wrong.

McCain...well, do we have to rehash it? Dude is old, he spent a long time in a POW camp, God bless him, hes lost movement in his neck and arm, etc.

He could seriously be dead before inauguration.

Which makes both VPs very important, IMO, Palin even moreso. Obama goes nowhere unless he is murdered...McCain could drop dead walking to the bathroom. Big difference.

So I am sorry, her not doing interviews is counter-intuitive and reeks of secrecy. Whats the big fucking secret? Is she dumb? Is she brash? Is she ignorant? All of these things have yet to be answered and she is not willing to answer them (unless, she is being held against her will).

I find it despicable and counter to everything a free and open government stands for. Why am I not surprised you dont.....


I already knew you're totally biased in favor of Obama...

[Bartleby]

McCain is in deep shit now.

His hail Mary about suspending the campaign looks to have backfired, Palin has become a liability, and Obama is putting more distance between them in the polls again. Obama's advantage on the electoral map is growing and FL, NC, and VA are all in play.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/maps/obama_vs_mccain/

[Shastafarian]

Is California still in play for McCain as whottt has told us?

[Bartleby]

Is California still in play for McCain as whottt has told us?

I'm still waiting for him to make that bet on NY going red.

[Findog]

whottt's participation in this forum seems to have waned as of late. I wonder why

[Shastafarian]

whottt's participation in this forum seems to have waned as of late. I wonder why

Because he's a huge pussy?

[Bartleby]

Cue the "these polls are all fucked up" chorus.

[florige]

Is California still in play for McCain as whottt has told us?


I thought it was NY he was saying was in play?

[Shastafarian]

I thought it was NY he was saying was in play?

He said they both were.

[florige]

He said they both were.



:lol Oh ok. I missed the California side of it then.

[whottt]

Shastafarian is lying.

[whottt]

:lol Oh ok. I missed the California side of it then.



That's why you're not on ignore, and that's why that stupid piece of shit is.

[Shastafarian]

Shastafarian is lying.

am I?



BTW, just for the record...I'm not calling California. But the McCain Camp seems to think something is going on there.


I'm sure they would love to win California...but even if they don't they can make some huge $$$$$ there. Ditto NY.

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2782060&highlight=whottt+california#post2782060

[florige]

Shastafarian is lying.



:lol I know I miss alot of shit on here so I didn't know.

[Shastafarian]

:lol I know I miss alot of shit on here so I didn't know.

Look at the above post.

[MannyIsGod]

He never said they were going to win it or put it in play.

[Shastafarian]

He never said they were going to win it or put it in play.

What does this mean then?


BTW, just for the record...I'm not calling California. But the McCain Camp seems to think something is going on there.

He's not "calling" California? What is he saying?

[whottt]

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=105365&highlight=California


BTW, just for the record...I'm not calling California. But the McCain Camp seems to think something is going on there.

Be sure to click on that link just so you know beyond all doubt Shasafarian is lying.

[whottt]

He never said they were going to win it or put it in play.

Thank you...


In his first post he made @8 similar statements that I knew were lies...that's why he went on ignore from the getgo...that's pretty much why everyone that I have on ignore is on ignore.

[Shastafarian]

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=105365&highlight=California



Be sure to click on that link just so you know beyond all doubt Shasafarian is lying.

Yeah a paper reported Obama supporters were worried. What were you saying when you said you weren't "calling" it?

also from that piece


Despite generating all this fear and enthusiasm, the Palin Factor hasn't changed the race in California. Obama beats McCain 52 percent to 36 percent in a Field Poll released last week,

[Shastafarian]

Please whottt, explain what you meant by "I'm not calling California".

Please also note the "lies" he claims I made in my first post have yet to be refuted in that thread

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=105149&highlight=apologize

By all means whottt you can quit being a pussy and refute any of them. I've already provided evidence to the contrary.

[MannyIsGod]

What does this mean then?



He's not "calling" California? What is he saying?

Seriously?

I mean seriously?

[Shastafarian]

Seriously?

I mean seriously?

Maybe I took it wrong but it seemed like he was saying he wasn't calling an Obama win. Am I wrong? If I was mistaken I'm open to an explanation.

[MannyIsGod]

He wasn't calling a MCCAIN win.

[Shastafarian]

He wasn't calling a MCCAIN win.

But he implied that he thought California was still in play. Hell with the article itself. Plus why would anyone need to go on record not calling a McCain win in California?!?!?

[MannyIsGod]

No dude. You're just reading it completely wrong I guess. Don't know what more to tell you. He implied McCain's people thought there was some smoke and maybe some fire there but he clearly says he doesn't.

[Shastafarian]

He implied McCain's people thought there was some smoke and maybe some fire there but he clearly says he doesn't.

I didn't see where he clearly says he doesn't. He said he's not calling it for McCain. That's fine. What I said on the previous page is that he says it's still in play. It's all a moot point too since he did say he thought New York was going to be close.

[MannyIsGod]

He never said he thought CA was going to be close, he said they might be able to raise some money there.

Bitch about Whottt all you want, he says stupid shit all the time, but there's no need to make up shit.

[Shastafarian]

He never said he thought CA was going to be close, he said they might be able to raise some money there.

Bitch about Whottt all you want, he says stupid shit all the time, but there's no need to make up shit.

Maybe I misinterpreted an unclear post (and thread considering he posted an article that talked about worried democrats in California) but I didn't "make shit up".

better than saying this about Warren Buffet


Let me be clear on this...I don't think he's a very smart man, I think he's a man who has wasted his life, and I bet deep down inside he feels that way also.

[DarkReign]

I already knew you're totally biased in favor of Obama...

No, believe it or not, I am not.

I think his hyperbolic, rhetoric is tiresome at best. He does give a great speech....hell, I'll admit I was a little blown away with his rant about racism while still in the Dem primaries. I dont think I have quite heard a better retort to such an issue. I was even (mildly) impressed with his speech at the DNC.

BUT

He is an unknown leader. There is no question his lack of experience scares the fuck out of me. Now, he seems intelligent enough to know how to handle things and surround himself with people that do, but do I know that to be certain? Fuck no.

I am not a middle class citizen, so being taxed to all hell is not my idea of a wonderful platform. Because its people like me who foot the fucking bill. Im not rich, but Im not poor, therefore I am on no politicians mind...the un-represented minority, if you will.

Also, I like McCain. People can say shit about him, but I will always remember him as the guy who punked Bush circa. 2000. I voted as a Republican in the 2000 primary....who did I vote for? McCain. It was my first opportunity to vote in a Presidential...anything, and I went Republican because there was this old dude from Arizona who punked Bush for the lying, scheming product of an endless stream of political corruption that is the Bush family.

So, no, youd be very mistaken that Im all Obama-crazy. Because I am not. My entire circle of friends and family bust my nuts because they think one thing, and I say another. Just yesterday I was having a few beers with my father-in-law (more than a few). Hes a German immigrant. Im talkin about real poverty. Living in the rubble left over in Berlin after the war. He immigrated to this country at 14 years old with his mother, one suitcase and neither of them knew a lick of English.

They came here for one reason....MONEY. Make money, move back to Germany. He was picked on at school (for obvious reasons), he was never allowed out of the house. He worked 3 jobs, mostly cleaning toilets and other unsavory shit no one ever liked to do. But he and his mother did it, together, with no man's help.

He never even dated a girl until he was 22. He spent the last 8 years of his life at school and work, never owned a television and had to borrow the neighbors phone when they needed to make a call.

His mother had saved every cent they both ever made. He started his own business. Hes a workaholic and now hes a multi-millionaire.

Hes as conservative, as Republican as they come....a helluva lot more than any of the fake wanna-bes here. When he was 19, he signed up for the Service (never drafted), when got out of the Army, he studied to become a priest.

He called me a true-red-blooded conservative yesterday after our conversation about this bailout and the political climate in the upcoming election.

So the point is, this is the man I hold in the highest regard...hes like 1A since my father died. If he calls me a conservative, then you telling me I somehow support Obama dont mean shit to me, honestly. If Republicans were filled with people like my father-in-law, theyd win every election.

Hes intelligent, grounded, stubborn and tolerant. Of those 3 attributes, current Republicans (generally speaking) can only say they have 2 of them at best (maybe you dont fit that particular stereotype Whott, seriously, but there are exceptions to every rule...you just so happen to be in this one).

I am undecided.

And it isnt because I want to look that way on this stupid fucking forum, so I can get high fives from both sides at certain times. No.

I am undecided because I have always liked McCain. But it is my opinion, from the moment I heard Palin speak at the RNC, that this could be the tipping point for me.

She has done nothing, Whott. Nothing...not in her time in as mayor, and not in her time as Governor. Troopergate (stupid name), Bridge to Nowhere.....honestly man, that shit doesnt mean anything to me.

She has as many qualifications as Obama from a government standpoint (but admittedly, Obama is leaps and bounds, universes away in education and intellect). But she doesnt come across as smart. At all.

With all that said, Im going to wait for the VP debates. Because so far, shes done nothing but embarass herself in the 2 whole fucking interviews shes done since accepting the VP nomination.

That last bolded part is what has pissed me off, that is the reason why you might be lead to believe I am an Obama supporter. She hasnt done enough, she hasnt been out in front, telling people like me who she is and what she stands for.

Its on people like me, the voter, to do their own homework and form the own opinion, this is true. But that is supposed to supplement her own input on the subject...something she just hasnt done!

And its the fucking media's fault?!

COME THE FUCK ON, MAN!

She could be holding press confernces left and right if thats what she wants, she could do more interviews and bone up her image. But she isnt, shes hiding and this is somehow my shortcoming? That this has more to do with me personally, than it does the person running for 2nd place to the Biggest Chair to the oldest man to ever sit in it?!

No, this isnt my fault. This is hers, or her campaigns, or McCains or all of them. She should be ra-ra-ing her way in front of every camera in sight distance since the RNC, because if she had the charisma and the intelligence, this race wouldnt even be close.

You fucking know that. You know it.

If Palin was her bubbly self with Hillary's brains and intellect, McCain would win Nixon style.

You fucking know that.

[whottt]

:lmao you didn't mention Joe Biden one time...and you typed probably 2 or 3 thousand words about how stupid Palin is coming off...

That's hilarious.

You're biased.


PS: She's done more than 2 interviews.


I don't think she's come off stupid in any of them...I think she's come off as not knowing McCain's policies.....completely understandable as McCain isn't always clear on what his policies are.

And neither is Obama.


And Biden has been directly contradicting Obama's policies in interviews recently...and he has history of disagreeing with them.




I don't expect Palin to know everything yet...that is an unrealistic expectation. Nor is she claiming that she does.

[DarkReign]

:lmao you didn't mention Joe Biden one time...and you typed probably 2 or 3 thousand words about how stupid Palin is coming off...

That's hilarious.

You're biased.

[sic]

I don't expect Palin to know everything yet...that is an unrealistic expectation. Nor is she claiming that she does.

Biden is of no consequence to me for two reasons, in order of importance:

1. Hes a known quantity.
2. Hes not the VP to a 72 year old POW.



PS: She's done more than 2 interviews.

Gibson first, Couric second...

?

[Bartleby]

Gibson first, Couric second...

?

The Hannity infomercial.

[Findog]

PS: She's done more than 2 interviews.

She's done two interviews and Fox News broadcast Sean Hannity performing cunnilingus on her.

[Mr. Peabody]

Bad sign for Repubs...


RNC going up in Indiana

Two sources familiar with the media buying plans say the Republican National Committee is set to spent six-figures shoring up John McCain in the traditionally Republican state of Indiana.

The RNC's independent expenditure arm -- which is outside the direct control of the campaign or the committee -- has placed a $100,000 buy with WISH-TV in Indianapolis, the CBS affiliate in the capital, one source said. Two sources said the buys across the state start on Tuesday, September 30.

I'd previously reported, incorrectly, that these were McCain campaign ads. The rate requests I reported then were in fact being made by the independent expenditure, which is being run by consultant Brad Todd.

Todd didn't respond to an email seeking comment.

But the meaning of the move is the same: With its own polling presumably confirming public polls showing Obama seriously competitive in Indiana, which hasn't gone Democratic since 1964, the Republicans are being stretched thinner than they would like. Meanwhile, elements of Obama's attempt to expand the map appear to be succeeding, at least by a preliminary measure: He's making the GOP spend money.

[MannyIsGod]

McCain is hemorrhaging in polls all across the board. He's no longer making gains anywhere.

I really do believe barring anything seriously wrong that Obama may do, McCain has put himself in a situation where he can't win the election on his own. Obama has to lose it.

[Mr. Peabody]

McCain just turned it around!!!!!

http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gen/40651/thumbs/r-AWK-huge.jpg

[whottt]

She's done two interviews and Fox News broadcast Sean Hannity performing cunnilingus on her.


And Obama get felched every time he does an interview not on Fox....


The doublestandard is amazing.

[whottt]

McCain is hemorrhaging in polls all across the board. He's no longer making gains anywhere.

I really do believe barring anything seriously wrong that Obama may do, McCain has put himself in a situation where he can't win the election on his own. Obama has to lose it.


As a wise man once said to me, 3 words: Margin of error

[MannyIsGod]

Yeah, and at this point a lot of the polls are outside of it.

[Anti.Hero]

Polls don't mean shit.


Unless Obama is up SKEEET SKEEEEET

[MannyIsGod]

I thought they meant a lot when Obama was behind. But OK.

[Crookshanks]

She's done two interviews and Fox News broadcast Sean Hannity performing cunnilingus on her.

You are such a pig! Everything with you has to have sexual overtones - this statement of yours is so offensive on so many levels. :nope Since nothing you say has any merit - it's time to put you on ignore so I can limit my exposure to such filth.

[Shastafarian]

You are such a pig! Everything with you has to have sexual overtones - this statement of yours is so offensive on so many levels. :nope Since nothing you say has any merit - it's time to put you on ignore so I can limit my exposure to such filth.

whottt?

[Findog]

You are such a pig! Everything with you has to have sexual overtones - this statement of yours is so offensive on so many levels. :nope Since nothing you say has any merit - it's time to put you on ignore so I can limit my exposure to such filth.

I am so hurt. How can I sleep at night knowing I can no longer interact with a Palin lemming?

[TheMadHatter]

McCain's poll numbers are falling fast. He desperately needs to knock this debate out of the park to stand a chance.

The momentum that's on Obama's side has the potential to turn this election into an all-time epic landslide win for Obama.

[DarkReign]

The Hannity infomercial.

Well shit, I definitely missed that one. Ok, 3 interviews. My bad.

[whottt]

Well shit, I definitely missed that one. Ok, 3 interviews. My bad.


Amazing...you really think that Obama gets the same treatment as Palin does don't you?


Hopeless.

[DarkReign]

Amazing...you really think that Obama gets the same treatment as Palin does don't you?


Hopeless.

No, I dont. I do think Obama gets a free pass from the interviews Ive seen.

I remember someone posted the difference in questioning between Palin and Obama from (i believe) Charlie Gibson.

Obama got softballs like "How does it feel to be the Dem nominee?" while Palin gets cut-up on Bush Doctrine.

But again, IMO, we're arguing semantics.

Whether or not there is a bias with Obama vs Palin is mildly important. Take it as a confirmation of the "liberal media" and move on to the next step in logic.

Ask this question...

Has Obama been throughly vetted? Yes, no question.
Has Palin been throughly vetted? Absolutely not.

Now, admittedly, Palin is the VP nominee not the POTUS nominee. I absolutely get that and do see the distinction.

But there is some credence to the fact that 3 of the 4 in this race are known quantities. Obama being (by far) the most recent known quantity. He is most certainly a tax-and-spend liberal domestically, his (promised, not proven) approach to foreign policy seems to be less militaristic than recent history and his leadership amongst his peers is unquestionably devoid of reality.

Again Whott, maybe I am just trying to convey my personal opinion of this matter. What I think is important.

Im re-iterating here (again) because it is important to me. Palin has (if I had to guess, dont skewer me) a 40-60 chance of becoming POTUS by default. Biden has about a 2-97 chance of being POTUS.

With that (admittedly personal) opinion in mind, my interest in Palin as a potential VP is of highest import. It is also my opinion that she has done nothing to expose her personal views on foreign policy, domestic policy, etc.

She has shown little ability to adapt in her interviews (havent seen Hannity's, so bare with me) and stumbles thru things she has been practicing in locked room full of Republican startegists for almost 6 weeks!

Give me 6 weeks of nothing but eat, sleep and memorization and I could most likely repeat word for the word "A Tale of Two Cities". And I never pretend to be smarter than I am, but this is memorization. 6 weeks to memorize McCain's platforms and all you have to do is regurgitate them. She hasnt shown the ability to even perform that menial task.

Can Biden? I dont know (judging by recent foot-in-mouth sessions, it seems not), and for reasons stated above, I dont think it matters.

Unfortunately, McCain's age is playing a big role in this for me. By proxy, his VP pick is important to me. His choice looks less than competent right now and I think thats a shame and a glaring hole in his campaign that no one is talking about (directly).

[whottt]

She stumbles because of her unfamiliarity with McCain's stances, especially past...it is totally understandable for her to be unfamiliar with McCain's stances...it's not like he toes the Republican or Conservative Party line.


I'm don't like her becuase of her complete and total grasp of every political theme currently being discussed in American politics, I like her because she's not a politician.


Biden is contradicting Obama's stances way more than Palin is contradicting McCains.

[ChumpDumper]

She stumbles because of her unfamiliarity with McCain's stances, especially past...it is totally understandable for her to be unfamiliar with McCain's stances...it's not like he toes the Republican or Conservative Party line.How long should it take a VP vandidate to get familiar with the presidential candidate's stances?



Biden is contradicting Obama's stances way more than Palin is contradicting McCains.That's why her cloistering is baffling.

[whottt]

How long should it take a VP vandidate to get familiar with the presidential candidate's stances?


That's why her cloistering is baffling.


Dude.....keeping track of John McCain's stances is like trying to keep track of mine.



Obama OTOH has no truly discernible stances...so the fact that Biden still manages to contradict them is quite amazing when you think about it.

[Yonivore]

Obama OTOH has no truly discernible stances...so the fact that Biden still manages to contradict them is quite amazing when you think about it.
:lmao

[Findog]

It's positively hilarious to watch the righties get apoplectic that the electorate simply doesn't care about Obama having coffee with some old guy that was in a group that nobody remembers that set off some bombs in some empty buildings 35 years ago for reasons that nobody remembers..

[Anti.Hero]

It's positively hilarious to watch the righties get apoplectic that the electorate simply doesn't care about Obama having coffee with some old guy that was in a group that nobody remembers that set off some bombs in some empty buildings 35 years ago for reasons that nobody remembers..

They would if it were Palin.


Take the blindfold off homie.

[Findog]

They would if it were Palin.


Take the blindfold off homie.

Rezko Ayers Raise Taxes Inexperienced Rezko Ayers Raise Taxes Inexperienced
Rezko Ayers Raise Taxes Inexperienced Rezko Ayers Raise Taxes Inexperienced
Rezko Ayers Raise Taxes Inexperienced Rezko Ayers Raise Taxes Inexperienced
Rezko Ayers Raise Taxes Inexperienced Rezko Ayers Raise Taxes Inexperienced
Rezko Ayers Raise Taxes Inexperienced Rezko Ayers Raise Taxes Inexperienced
Rezko Ayers Raise Taxes Inexperienced Rezko Ayers Raise Taxes Inexperienced

:sleep:sleep:sleep:sleep:sleep:sleep:sleep:sleep:s leep:sleep:sleep:sleep:sleep:sleep

[Anti.Hero]

Grape or cherry? I prefer cherry, but at times grape really hits the spot.

[ChumpDumper]

They would if it were Palin.


Take the blindfold off homie.Shit. Nobody even had to dig with Palin.

She's destroying herself.

[Cry Havoc]

No, I dont. I do think Obama gets a free pass from the interviews Ive seen.

I remember someone posted the difference in questioning between Palin and Obama from (i believe) Charlie Gibson.

Obama got softballs like "How does it feel to be the Dem nominee?" while Palin gets cut-up on Bush Doctrine.

But again, IMO, we're arguing semantics.

Whether or not there is a bias with Obama vs Palin is mildly important. Take it as a confirmation of the "liberal media" and move on to the next step in logic.

Ask this question...

Has Obama been throughly vetted? Yes, no question.
Has Palin been throughly vetted? Absolutely not.

Now, admittedly, Palin is the VP nominee not the POTUS nominee. I absolutely get that and do see the distinction.

But there is some credence to the fact that 3 of the 4 in this race are known quantities. Obama being (by far) the most recent known quantity. He is most certainly a tax-and-spend liberal domestically, his (promised, not proven) approach to foreign policy seems to be less militaristic than recent history and his leadership amongst his peers is unquestionably devoid of reality.

Again Whott, maybe I am just trying to convey my personal opinion of this matter. What I think is important.

Im re-iterating here (again) because it is important to me. Palin has (if I had to guess, dont skewer me) a 40-60 chance of becoming POTUS by default. Biden has about a 2-97 chance of being POTUS.

With that (admittedly personal) opinion in mind, my interest in Palin as a potential VP is of highest import. It is also my opinion that she has done nothing to expose her personal views on foreign policy, domestic policy, etc.

She has shown little ability to adapt in her interviews (havent seen Hannity's, so bare with me) and stumbles thru things she has been practicing in locked room full of Republican startegists for almost 6 weeks!

Give me 6 weeks of nothing but eat, sleep and memorization and I could most likely repeat word for the word "A Tale of Two Cities". And I never pretend to be smarter than I am, but this is memorization. 6 weeks to memorize McCain's platforms and all you have to do is regurgitate them. She hasnt shown the ability to even perform that menial task.

Can Biden? I dont know (judging by recent foot-in-mouth sessions, it seems not), and for reasons stated above, I dont think it matters.

Unfortunately, McCain's age is playing a big role in this for me. By proxy, his VP pick is important to me. His choice looks less than competent right now and I think thats a shame and a glaring hole in his campaign that no one is talking about (directly).

+1. This is very akin to what I said in the "debate" thread.

[Yonivore]

Rezko Ayers Raise Taxes Inexperienced Rezko Ayers Raise Taxes Inexperienced
Rezko Ayers Raise Taxes Inexperienced Rezko Ayers Raise Taxes Inexperienced
Rezko Ayers Raise Taxes Inexperienced Rezko Ayers Raise Taxes Inexperienced
Rezko Ayers Raise Taxes Inexperienced Rezko Ayers Raise Taxes Inexperienced
Rezko Ayers Raise Taxes Inexperienced Rezko Ayers Raise Taxes Inexperienced
Rezko Ayers Raise Taxes Inexperienced Rezko Ayers Raise Taxes Inexperienced

:sleep:sleep:sleep:sleep:sleep:sleep:sleep:sleep:s leep:sleep:sleep:sleep:sleep:sleep
All very excellent points over which the media has been rather incurious to delve beyond the own candidates response.

[whottt]

Latest Polls:

Saturday, September 27
Race Poll Results Spread
Iowa Rasmussen Obama 51, McCain 43 Obama +8
National Gallup Tracking Obama 49, McCain 44 Obama +5
National Rasmussen Tracking Obama 50, McCain 44 Obama +6
National Hotline/FD Tracking Obama 48, McCain 43 Obama +5

Nothing outside the margin of error but I still think they are in a state of flux and unreliable.

[ChumpDumper]

I believe Rasmussen said that pretty much all his polling was done before the debate and to wait until Monday to see if it had any effect.

[MannyIsGod]

Latest Polls:

Saturday, September 27
Race Poll Results Spread
Iowa Rasmussen Obama 51, McCain 43 Obama +8
National Gallup Tracking Obama 49, McCain 44 Obama +5
National Rasmussen Tracking Obama 50, McCain 44 Obama +6
National Hotline/FD Tracking Obama 48, McCain 43 Obama +5

Nothing outside the margin of error but I still think they are in a state of flux and unreliable.

LOL

Nothing outside the margin of error?

MORE LIKE EVERY SINGLE ONE IS OUTSIDE THE MARGIN OF ERROR. They've been steadily trending up. They haven't been chaotic. Thats not flux, thats a steady trend.

[Cry Havoc]

LOL

Nothing outside the margin of error?

MORE LIKE EVERY SINGLE ONE IS OUTSIDE THE MARGIN OF ERROR. They've been steadily trending up. They haven't been chaotic. Thats not flux, thats a steady trend.

Even whottt is starting to admit that McCain is losing ground.


Be back in a few. I need to check that the sky is still up there.

[Bartleby]

Even whottt is starting to admit that McCain is losing ground.


Be back in a few. I need to check that the sky is still up there.

I don't know about that. Looks to me like he is in serious denial.

[TheMadHatter]

All polls whottt listed were outside the margin of error with leads given to Obama.

If the snap polls are indicative of what America feels about the debate this election is over. Obama wins. If Palin humiliates herself, Obama landslide.

[whottt]

Latest Polls:

Sunday, September 28
Race Poll Results Spread
National Gallup Tracking Obama 50, McCain 42 Obama +8
National Rasmussen Tracking Obama 50, McCain 44 Obama +6
National Hotline/FD Tracking Obama 47, McCain 42 Obama +5
Louisiana Rasmussen McCain 55, Obama 40 McCain +15
Connecticut SurveyUSA Obama 54, McCain 38 Obama +16
California SurveyUSA Obama 53, McCain 43 Obama +10
Kentucky Mason-Dixon McCain 53, Obama 41 McCain +12
Tennessee Mason-Dixon McCain 55, Obama 39 McCain +16
Wyoming Research 2000 McCain 57, Obama 36 McCain +21
California PPIC Obama 50, McCain 40 Obama +10



National Polls look pretty bleak but as Manny said...National Polls shouldn't really be taken seriously.


OTOH...2 polls show Obama losing ground in California. Interesting.

[Shastafarian]

OTOH...2 polls show Obama losing ground in California. Interesting.

ooooooo are you gonna say California isn't out of the question now? Or post some more ambiguous drivel that you know can't make you look like the complete fucking moron you are?

[whottt]

I fully expect Cry Havoc to defend me here.

To prove he's not a hypocritical piece of shit.

[ElNono]

Latest Polls:

Sunday, September 28
Race Poll Results Spread
National Gallup Tracking Obama 50, McCain 42 Obama +8
National Rasmussen Tracking Obama 50, McCain 44 Obama +6
National Hotline/FD Tracking Obama 47, McCain 42 Obama +5
Louisiana Rasmussen McCain 55, Obama 40 McCain +15
Connecticut SurveyUSA Obama 54, McCain 38 Obama +16
California SurveyUSA Obama 53, McCain 43 Obama +10
Kentucky Mason-Dixon McCain 53, Obama 41 McCain +12
Tennessee Mason-Dixon McCain 55, Obama 39 McCain +16
Wyoming Research 2000 McCain 57, Obama 36 McCain +21
California PPIC Obama 50, McCain 40 Obama +10

National Polls look pretty bleak but as Manny said...National Polls shouldn't really be taken seriously.

OTOH...2 polls show Obama losing ground in California. Interesting.


Just be sure to vote...I'm not buying the polls.

An Oxymoron...

[whottt]

Cry Havoc = Exposed and now ignored.

Gets on a high horse for the manner of those that don't share his opinion but refuses to do the same for those that do. Profanity and verbal abuse doesn't bother you as you claimed...only when it's those with those of differing political views doing it.

[Cry Havoc]

Cry Havoc = Exposed and now ignored.

Gets on a high horse for the manner of those that don't share his opinion but refuses to do the same for those that do. Profanity and verbal abuse doesn't bother you as you claimed...only when it's those with those off differing political views doing it.

What?

Oh, sorry I didn't check this thread in the requisite amount of time to rush to your aid. I was unaware you needed help defending yourself. God forbid you take anything that someone says on here personally.

I already stated earlier in this thread that I was surprised you admit that (the polls indicate) McCain has lost ground.

Keep me on ignore though. It makes you look so tolerant of other people on this forum who disagree with you.

[ChumpDumper]

These ignore list proclamations are reminiscent of Wild Cobra.

:tu

[Shastafarian]

These ignore list proclamations are reminiscent of Wild Cobra.

He announces them like people should care.

[whottt]

This message is hidden because ChumpDumper is on your ignore list.


Fixed.


Sig it.

[Shastafarian]

This message should be hidden because whottt is on your ignore list. However his desire to be the most popular girl in school has rendered the ignore function useless

[MannyIsGod]

I don't think most people realize how big a 5+ point margin in the national polls is going to be to overcome for McCain at this point int he election season.

[Bartleby]

I don't think most people realize how big a 5+ point margin in the national polls is going to be to overcome for McCain at this point int he election season.

True, but I'm anticipating a big swiftboat style attack on Obama just before the election. It may not put McCain over the top, but it could close the gap considerably.

[Shastafarian]

I don't think most people realize how big a 5+ point margin in the national polls is going to be to overcome for McCain at this point int he election season.

A lot of people were claiming that Obama would need a 7 point+ lead to overcome the closet racists. I'm not kidding. Pundits were saying how people were/are too ashamed to admit they won't vote for Obama because he's black. It would artificially inflate Obama's numbers until election day arrives. Then those people will have the privacy of a booth to be racist. It's ridiculous in my opinion.

[dg7md]

True, but I'm anticipating a big swiftboat style attack on Obama just before the election. It may not put McCain over the top, but it could close the gap considerably.

Doubt it'd be as workable as it was on Kerry. Kerry was a good man but never really was able to confront those swiftboat and the other BS attacks on him, which cost him. Obama has yet to back down from attacks and the Palin effect has utterly made the GOP into a mainstream media joke, moreso than before... about time. :toast

I wouldn't put anything behind GOP and dirty politics, though.

[ChumpDumper]

Fixed.


Sig it.Nice meltdown, whottt.

You got fooled by a pretty face.

It happens.

[whottt]

This message is hidden because Joe Biden is Obama's runningmate and yet ChumpDumper has the AUDACITY to talk shit about Palin being an idiot.

[ChumpDumper]

:lol

Palin made you pick McCain and now she's making you look like a fool.

I know you can't stand it, but that's exactly what is going on here.

Biden is tough enough to do interviews at least. Not like your hothouse flower.

100 > 3.

[MannyIsGod]

Biden >>>> Palin and its not even close.

I told you straight up that I knew once he selected her it was over. I didn't anticipate the way she'd motivate the base, but her bubble has gone beyond bursting and she's a net negative to McCain.

Its just the truth.

[Shastafarian]

Biden >>>> Palin and its not even close.

I told you straight up that I knew once he selected her it was over. I didn't anticipate the way she'd motivate the base, but her bubble has gone beyond bursting and she's a net negative to McCain.

Its just the truth.

Uh oh...

[ChumpDumper]

I still think McCain is going to win, but only because I am voting for him.

[whottt]

:lol

Palin made you pick McCain and now she's making you look like a fool.

Not at all...I am extremely happy with this pick. I like her better than anyone else in this race.



I know you can't stand it, but that's exactly what is going on here.

No it's just annoying that you guys are acting like she's the stupid one when her gaffes are totally understandable while the ones Obama and Biden make are not.





Biden is tough enough to do interviews at least.

Biden's got the media on his side...this guys makes himself look stupid just by opening his mouth. The media not only doesn't try to make him look stupid, they totally bury his gaffes.

Clear double standard Chump, that's the source of the annoyance.


What's ignorant is expecting Palin to be an expert on certain issues. She's not being brought in becuase she already has all the answers, she's being brought in because because she has a record of reform and going after her own party. It's entirely character driven...the one bit of knowledge she is supposed to bringing an expertise on is Energy.

[ChumpDumper]

You didn't announce that I have been taken off ignore.

[whottt]

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 5 (4 members and 1 guests)
whottt, Colombiano972, ChumpDumper, MaNuMaNiAc

Go fuck yourself.

[whottt]

You didn't announce that I have been taken off ignore.


You didn't put me in your sig.

[ChumpDumper]

What's ignorant is expecting Palin to be an expert on certain issues. She's not being brought in becuase she already has all the answers, she's being brought in because because she has a record of reform and going after her own party. It's entirely character driven...the one bit of knowledge she is supposed to bringing an expertise on is Energy.She was brought as just another stunt by the McCain campaign that consistently proves it doesn't know what it's doing.

[ChumpDumper]

You didn't put me in your sig.You weren't as funny as Wild Cobra.

[whottt]

She was brought as just another stunt by the McCain campaign that consistently proves it doesn't know what it's doing.


BFD Obama's just as much of a publicity stunt. And he's less accomplished as a Senator than she is as a Governor.


Difference is he's at the top of the ticket.

[ChumpDumper]

BFD Obama's just as much of a publicity stunt. And he's less accomplished as a Senator than she is as a Governor.The nomination of Obama is a publicity stunt pulled by the Obama campaign.

This is the whottt we all know and love.

[whottt]

She's more qualified than he is...at least she doesn't get her ass kicked reading a speech.

Nor does she sound like a bad Porky Pig impression when she's not reading a speech.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Go fuck yourself.

:lmao What's wrong whottt?

[ChumpDumper]

She's more qualified than he is...at least she doesn't get her ass kicked reading a speech.

Nor does she sound like a bad Porky Pig impression when she's not reading a speech.Nah, in that case she does a great Miss Teen South Carolina USA!

lj3iNxZ8Dww

[whottt]

cxxxGUeZtno


:lol

It's not even close dude.

[whottt]

treatment early and they got sooooooomeeeeeee treatment, and a breathalyzer :lmao

[ChumpDumper]

I have no objection to the contention that Obama is a weak candidate.

He is.

That's what makes McCain, his campaign and its stuntwoman Palin such a laugh riot.

They are proving to be worse.

[whottt]

iQqIpdBOg6I


Must be nice to have the media covering for you instead of editing your interviews to make them look worse.

[whottt]

I have no objection to the contention that Obama is a weak candidate.

He is.

That's what makes McCain, his campaign and its stuntwoman Palin such a laugh riot.

They are proving to be worse.



At least she knows how many states there are.


Are you 100% certain Obama does?


I think the assumption is that he had to have known it...but did he? You can't prove he did.

[MannyIsGod]

Go fuck yourself.

:lmao

[ChumpDumper]

At least she knows how many states there are.


Are you 100% certain Obama does?


I think the assumption is that he had to have known it...but did he? You can't prove he did.Oh, here's where you get disingenuous and start talking about completely unimportant things like bracelets and equal time in comedy sketches.

Let's call it whotttling.

Like whittling but incredibly stupid and a big waste of time.

[whottt]

Oh, here's where you get disingenuous and start talking about completely unimportant things like bracelets and equal time in comedy sketches.

Let's call it whotttling.

Like whittling but incredibly stupid and a big waste of time.



No Chump what's stupid is you ripping her for not knowing McCain's stances when she is clearly worried about contradicting them.

Fucking McCain's stances are impossible to get a handle on, he has a bunch of unsual ones.

The thing is, if he dies, she's not going to follow his policies, she's going to follow her own. Most of them she'll figure out after she takes office.

She has a clear track record of figuring shit out on the job...who gives a fuck if she knows McCain's policies...it will never matter.

That's not stupidity...that's a lack of an agenda.

Shame on you Chump.

[whottt]

Oh, here's where you get disingenuous and start talking about completely unimportant things like bracelets and equal time in comedy sketches.

Let's call it whotttling.

Like whittling but incredibly stupid and a big waste of time.


Are you certain he knows off the top of his head how many states there are? He went to elementary school in Indonesia...that's when you learn that shit and it becomes second nature.

I don't think it is second nature to him. That part of his development did not occur in the states.

[Shastafarian]

No Chump what's stupid is you ripping her for not knowing McCain's stances when she is clearly worried about contradicting them.

Fucking McCain's stances are impossible to get a handle on, he has a bunch of unsual ones.

The thing is, if he dies, she's not going to follow his policies, she's going to follow her own. Most of them she'll figure out after she takes office.

She has a clear track record of figuring shit out on the job...who gives a fuck if she knows McCain's policies...it will never matter.

That's not stupidity...that's a lack of an agenda.

Shame on you Chump.

That's the scariest thing about her being VP. Also, she hasn't just not known his policies. Have you seen her answer on the bailout question by Couric? She has no idea what she's talking about. Not that she doesn't know McCain's stance...she has absolutely no idea how the economy works or what this bailout means.


Are you certain he knows off the top of his head how many states there are? He went to elementary school in Indonesia...that's when you learn that shit and it becomes second nature.

I don't think it is second nature to him. That part of his development did not occur in the states.
If you actually believe this you are dumber than I could've imagined.

[ChumpDumper]

No Chump what's stupid is you ripping her for not knowing McCain's stances when she is clearly worried about contradicting them.

Fucking McCain's stances are impossible to get a handle on, he has a bunch of unsual ones.

The thing is, if he dies, she's not going to follow his policies, she's going to follow her own.

She has a clear track record of figuring shit out on the job...who gives a fuck if she knows McCain's policies...it will never matter.


Shame on you Chump.:lmao

I am ripping on her for repeatedly looking like an idiot and then hiding because her handlers are afraid of her looking like an idiot again.

You say she's tough, but all you can do is make excuses for your hothouse flower.

This bullshit about not knowing what McCain thinks is completely weak. If she doesn't know them by now, she is an idiot and should be taken off the ticket. If she doesn't know, just say you don't know and avoid the verbal diarrhea that everyone can now make fun of.

She's an embarrassment. Everybody knows it, and her interviews and resulting cloistering is all the proof that is needed. None of your excuses will change that.

But we all love watching you try.

[Bartleby]

No Chump what's stupid is you ripping her for not knowing McCain's stances when she is clearly worried about contradicting them.

Fucking McCain's stances are impossible to get a handle on, he has a bunch of unsual ones.

If she can't figure out the basic platform of the straightalk express she has no business on the ticket. Besides, how do you even know that's what's tripping her up?

[ChumpDumper]

If she can't figure out the basic platform of the straightalk express she has no business on the ticket. Besides, how do you even know that's what's tripping her up?http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/issues/

Palin needs a few more months to read this. Give her time, man! She'll be ready for her next interview by 2012.

[Cry Havoc]

The thing is, if he dies, she's not going to follow his policies, she's going to follow her own. Most of them she'll figure out after she takes office.

Oh for fuck's sake. We don't have the economy to support 4,000 "Palin Approved Moose Hunting Lodges" erected in Alaska with 200 foot wide panoramic windows to spy on Russia.

[Anti.Hero]

Oh for fuck's sake. We don't have the economy to support 4,000 "Palin Approved Moose Hunting Lodges" erected in Alaska with 200 foot wide panoramic windows to spy on Russia.

lmfao. Like that will stop us from sending thousands of $30k trailers to the next Katrina victims that will be completely trashed within mere weeks.

We don't have an economy to support shit, this is Amerika - - that shit hasn't stopped us in the past and it won't start now!

I mean ffs, we've got global poverty to end!

[whottt]

:lmao

I am ripping on her for repeatedly looking like an idiot and then hiding because her handlers are afraid of her looking like an idiot again.

You say she's tough, but all you can do is make excuses for your hothouse flower.

This bullshit about not knowing what McCain thinks is completely weak. If she doesn't know them by now, she is an idiot and should be taken off the ticket. If she doesn't know, just say you don't know and avoid the verbal diarrhea that everyone can now make fun of.

She's an embarrassment. Everybody knows it, and her interviews and resulting cloistering is all the proof that is needed. None of your excuses will change that.

But we all love watching you try.


I don't think she's reason she's not doing interviews...I think it's McCain.


She seems to like the camera...I don't know if you noticed or not.


She's afraid of contradicting his convoluted stances.

[whottt]

C2mzbuRgnI4

Biden FTW.


Tina Fey wishes she was that funny.

[whottt]

D'oh..god love ya :lmao

[ChumpDumper]

I don't think she's reason she's not doing interviews...I think it's McCain.It's his campaign handlers. They aren't as stupid as she looks.



She seems to like the camera...I don't know if you noticed or not.She seems to not answer even simple interview questions well..I don't know if you noticed or not.

[whottt]

:lmao and Obama gets his ass kicked a by a speech.

[ChumpDumper]

:lmao and Obama gets his ass kicked a by a speech.And yet, there he is giving speeches and scores of interviews just like any normal candidate.

Palin?

In a bubble.

Because she is that bad.

You can't spin that. You're trying to and it's fun to watch, but you aren't fooling anyone.

[Cry Havoc]

:lmao and Obama gets his ass kicked a by a speech.

I think he was just intimated by the fact that McCain invented the Blackberry. That's tough to compete with.

[whottt]

The essence of Chump:
Beno and Hedo have balls because Pop favors them, Barry and Manu are pussies because Pop doesn't.



Classic Chump character assessment.


In this case Palin is Barry and Obama is Beno. Beno bringing it up the court in the finals.

[ChumpDumper]

The essence of Chump:
Beno and Hedo have balls because Pop favors them, Barry and Manu are pussies because Pop doesn't.



Classic Chump character assessment.:lol

It's so easy to tell when whottt feels cornered.

Classic whottt attempt to change the subject.

[whottt]

It's exactly the same thing. Same judgement...Barry got bitch status and you claimed he was a pussyh and unworthy of Beno's minutes...


Time showed who the pussy was.


I look forward to Obama actrually having to face a truly hostile media. He will fold quicker than Michael Finley on a game winning playoff shot.

[ChumpDumper]

Palin is horrible.

You chose your presidential candidate because of a woman who is now doing horribly.

She could get better. For your sanity and general well-being, I hope she does.

For the general entertainment of the posters here, I hope she doesn't.

[whottt]

It's his campaign handlers. They aren't as stupid as she looks


Right, just like Pop knew what he was doing in Beno over Barry.

[whottt]

Palin is horrible.

You chose your presidential candidate because of a woman who is now doing horribly.

She could get better. For your sanity and general well-being, I hope she does.

For the general entertainment of the posters here, I hope she doesn't.


She's better than every other candidate in this election...the other 3 are total asshats. She's the only one with the media out to destroy her.

[ChumpDumper]

She's better than every other candidate in this election...the other 3 are total asshats. She's the only one with the media out to destroy her.:lmao

Protect your hothouse flower!

You are more sexist defending her than anyone could be attacking her.

[whottt]

Yeah I know...just like I was advocating coddling for Barry :tu


Look we know this is just going to go back and fourth...let's just see what happens.


I've seen her do lots of interviews, I've seen her debate, she's not an idiot. And you are fucking up and setting yourself up for an owning by claiming she is.


You can see her shit on youtube...I suggest you go check it out.

[ChumpDumper]

But she needs protecting!

And kind understanding!

[whottt]

:yawn

[whottt]

BTW, if you are on the forum on Thursday afternoon I will tell you why being the Govenor of Alaska gives you more international experience than any other Governorship.

[ChumpDumper]

True, I am bored with your making excuses for her.

With any luck, she can turn this around. I'll keep laughing at you both until then.

[whottt]

True, I am bored with your making excuses for her.

With any luck, she can turn this around. I'll keep laughing at you both until then.

Stand up Chump! :lmao

[whottt]

God luv ya :lol

[ChumpDumper]

BTW, if you are on the forum on Thursday afternoon I will tell you why being the Govenor of Alaska gives you more international experience than any other Governorship.whottt's October Surprise!

Pass.

I just don't care that much, but maybe you should tell Palin because she doesn't know either.

[whottt]

I'm going to tell you anyway. You can't pass. And I don't care if you don't care.

[ChumpDumper]

[This message is hidden because whottt is on your ignore list.]

[Cry Havoc]

[This message is hidden because whottt is on your ignore list.]

+1.

[TheMadHatter]

I've put whottt on my ignore list long ago.

[ElNono]

Biden's got the media on his side...this guys makes himself look stupid just by opening his mouth. The media not only doesn't try to make him look stupid, they totally bury his gaffes.

All Palin needs to do is head for Fox news... But she ain't doing that. And you damn well know why.

[florige]

GTFO.... Obama just took the lead in NC.....:wow
This shit is falling down for McCain.



http://politicalwire.com/archives/2008/09/29/ppp_poll_obama_moves_ahead_in_north_carolina.html

[Findog]

GTFO.... Obama just took the lead in NC.....:wow




http://politicalwire.com/archives/2008/09/29/ppp_poll_obama_moves_ahead_in_north_carolina.html

Check out intrade. McCain probably lost the election today, if he hadn't already.

[florige]

Check out intrade. McCain probably lost the election today, if he hadn't already.



:lol

[JoeChalupa]

Check out intrade. McCain probably lost the election today, if he hadn't already.

Don't forget about Thursday and Sarah coming to the rescue!!!

[MannyIsGod]

Another good day for the Palin/McCain ticket int he polls.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3167/2899864001_7359152436_o.png

[whottt]

Another good day for the Palin/McCain ticket int he polls.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3167/2899864001_7359152436_o.png


I've got an article I'm going to post in a bit I think you'll be interested in reading.

[ElNono]

I've got an article I'm going to post in a bit I think you'll be interested in reading.

Probably how pollsters are liberal junk... :rolleyes

[MannyIsGod]

Whottt never posted his article

[Shastafarian]

Whottt never posted his article

He hasn't posted much of anything recently. I wonder if I could find a correlation with amount of whottt posts to McCain's poll numbers.

[RandomGuy]

Probably how pollsters are liberal junk... :rolleyes


Of course.

Polls are valuable right up until they show something that isn't good for Republicans.:lol