Resuming CBA talks

[Giuseppe]

Apparently they agreed to a higher luxury tax ratio, but with that kind of ratio, union wanted their 52%...

I wonder if it's prohibitive? I can't imagine Fisher not looking out for Buss there. It must be a manageable ratio.

[GB20]

Looks like the NFL and the NFLPA are just smarter than these guys since they got their CBA done without cancelling any regular season games at all. maybe the NBA and NBAPA need to ask the NFL how they got it done

[slick'81]

In announcing the cancellation of all NBA games through November 30, commissioner David Stern said that there will not be a full 82-game season "under any circumstances."

The players' union drew a line at 52% of BRI, stalling talks even after significant progress was made on 'systems issues' such as amnesty clauses and the luxury tax. There are no scheduled negotiation sessions and NBPA president Derek Fisher has flown home, according to various sources, so the odds of a deal this weekend just tanked. The sides have inched closer and closer, however, and presumably there will be more talks early next week.


http://twitter.com/#!/ZachLowe_SI

[GB20]

Fisher flew to LA after the meeting, so not sure anything happens this weekend.

it looks like this guy does not care.he needs to stay where he is at and case they need to meet tomorrow or Sunday.

[baseline bum]

Silly me, I really thought Lucy wouldn't pull the football away this time.


:lol















































:pctoss

[Mr. Body]

If I ever meet David Stern, I'm punching that guy in the balls. What a major league asshole he's turned out to be.

[ElNono]

You have to give him credit though... he was saying with a straight face that the owners made "concessions", such as $5 million MLE and the length of the contracts being 4 and 5 years (as opposed to 3 and 4 years the owners originally proposed)...

As a reminder, the MLE for 2010-2011 was $5.7 million and the length of the contracts were 5 and 6 years.

[blkroadrunners]

I wouldn't be surprised to see a deal being reached in 2 or 3 days.

The next step would be obviously owners having a meeting about revenue sharing. If small market owners can convince big market owners to give them an extra $50M per year, we will have a full NBA season.

I'm praying that would be the case, but Idk what to believe from Stern and crew now.

[daslicer]

it looks like this guy does not care.he needs to stay where he is at and case they need to meet tomorrow or Sunday.

I never liked this guy and that was way before .4. He's an overrated POS flopper and fake tough guy. One thing I look forward to if this lockout last a year is that he will be made the fall guy by the Union. It going to be great seeing him get lynched by few hundred angry players.

[Mr. Body]

Yeah, too bad they've suspended transcontinental flights and there's no way Fisher can get back in, like, half a day. He doesn't deserve to spend Halloween with his kids or see his family because... something something.

[Bruno]

I don't see about what players and owners could talk right now. Fisher being in LA or in NY doesn't matter. Negotiations are in an impasse. It is that simple.

[Bruno]

http://twitter.com/#!/WojYahooNBA/status/130099592053268480


NBA's united owners @MickyArison: u r barking at wrong owner. RT @GreedyNBAstards: guess what? Fans provide the money you're fighting over

Arison will be fined $100K by Stern with that comment. :lol

[mavsfan1000]

Fuck you Derek Fisher. Just had to say that. I hate that bitchy player.

[slick'81]

just having to c the fate of the nba players being lead by fish and roger "i suck out loud mason" gives me a bad feeling

[mountainballer]

STEIN_LINE_HQ Marc Stein
Amnesty Clause latest: Sources say Spurs pushing for clause teams can "save" instead of immediate use-it-or-lose-it -

much logic in this.
2012 will be the crucial summer for the Spurs future and there are a lot of questions open and a lot of things can happen till then.
it all starts with the question if Tim retires and if he does, do the Spurs totally rebuild, or just reload. a lot will depend on how the young players will perform this season, something they can't know right now.
Spurs won't be enough $ under the cap (whatever the cap will be) to be a player in the 2012 free agency. also not, if they use the AC this summer on RJ. but they could try to get rid of some contracts this deadline and then have the flexibility to use the clause on whatever contract they want in 2012, especially if the major goal will be to create as much cap room as possible. (yes, this could even be Manu, who's salary will be the highest at that point)

[DPG21920]

:lol You have to love social media. Only now can the average Joe yell at millionaire owners so directly from the comfort of their own bed.

[ChuckD]

This latest bit was all just a show on the owners part in the run up to the NLRB ruling. They wanted to look more like they were negotiating, and they did. There was never really any chance of a negotiated settlement. The owners don't want one. They want their terms or no season.

[mavsfan1000]

This latest bit was all just a show on the owners part in the run up to the NLRB ruling. They wanted to look more like they were negotiating, and they did. There was never really any chance of a negotiated settlement. The owners don't want one. They want their terms or no season.
I guess we are having no season then as long as Fisher is there.

[Fabbs]

5 million per year average player salary.
Matt Bonner 3.3 million a year to suck.

The owners did come down from 57% to 52%.
At what point should the players simply concede even if the owners are making more of their **fair** share?

[Mel_13]

The owners did come down from 57% to 52%.

lol Fabbs

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

:lol You have to love social media. Only now can the average Joe yell at millionaire owners so directly from the comfort of their own bed.
:lol

[ChuckD]

lol Fabbs

Exactly. The owners never came off 50%. They went up 3% from their initial position of 47%. The players came down 5% from their current percentage of 57%.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

It makes no sense to continue the lockout over the difference between 52.5% and 50%, neither side wanting to be known as the side that caved seems like the only thing keeping the lockout going. That 2.5% in revenue they're fighting over is probably close to being lost just on the games they've missed.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

It makes no sense to continue the lockout over the difference between 52.5% and 50%, neither side wanting to be known as the side that caved seems like the only thing keeping the lockout going. That 2.5% in revenue they're fighting over is probably close to being lost just on the games they've missed.

The 2% difference is about $100 million per year. Over a 10 year long CBA it's around $1 billion. It's a lot of money and they're not losing that much cancelling a few november games.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

I heard somewhere they're already projected to lose $300,000,000 as of right now. I also had no idea it'd be a 10 year CBA.

[ChuckD]

I heard somewhere they're already projected to lose $300,000,000 as of right now. I also had no idea it'd be a 10 year CBA.

Yup. Players want 6 years, so that they can get in on the new TV deal in 5 years, and the owners, of course, are refusing to budge on 10 years. It's what they do.

[mavsfan1000]

It makes no sense to continue the lockout over the difference between 52.5% and 50%, neither side wanting to be known as the side that caved seems like the only thing keeping the lockout going. That 2.5% in revenue they're fighting over is probably close to being lost just on the games they've missed.
It's the battle of egos.

[baseline bum]

Lazy dumb Niggggggers. Hunter and Fisher are fucking the fans and players. 50/50 is fair more than fair, you guys have been getting overpaid for 10 years now. While the rest of the country struggles, you lazy gangsters want more money? I hope all you bitches end up like Jason Caffey, broke living with his Mom in the hood!!

Quality post.

[mavsfan1000]

What's up with the racism?

[Giuseppe]

It's still not the BRI. The BRI is dynamic. Sure the number split is static, but, the payoff is fluid and within the player's motivations to impact. They may get lazy after it's signed and not be inclinded to impact it at their discretion, but, going into the contract anything is possible.

It's still the system. A hard cap, or, a prohibitive luxury tax point is static and a death knell to loose money. Any fool can see that.

[benefactor]

Quality post.
I'm sure his black friend Larry Sanders appreciates the slur.

[Mr. Body]

When it comes to labor vs. ownership battles in American history, true colors often come out and you see who almost immediately go to racism.

[ElNono]

When it comes to labor vs. ownership battles in American history, true colors often come out and you see who almost immediately go to racism.

Are you suggesting that some owner will drop the "picking cotton" line soon? I thought that was reserved to BRHornet and the like...

[Fabbs]

Exactly. The owners never came off 50%. They went up 3% from their initial position of 47%. The players came down 5% from their current percentage of 57%.
I thought the owners initial bogus # was 60% for them, 40% players. Which everyone knew was just a b.s. negotiating starting point.

At any rate, i still say when Matty Bonner is pulling 3.3 a year it's like at what point is it good enough. Faggot Fisher should have never agreed to the last CBA which had Derrick Rose capped at barely more then Bonner. Now that's some serious bullshit.

[ChuckD]

I thought the owners initial bogus # was 60% for them, 40% players. Which everyone knew was just a b.s. negotiating starting point.

At any rate, i still say when Matty Bonner is pulling 3.3 a year it's like at what point is it good enough. Faggot Fisher should have never agreed to the last CBA which had Derrick Rose capped at barely more then Bonner. Now that's some serious bullshit.

That was never on the table. The floor number for the owners at the table was always 47%.

Derrick Rose will make his money. The rookie scale was put in place because of a bunch of "Bonners" who held out their rookie years and then didn't produce. I think the players are trying to get it shortened from 5 years to 4, but good luck with that.

[baseline bum]

I thought the owners initial bogus # was 60% for them, 40% players. Which everyone knew was just a b.s. negotiating starting point.

At any rate, i still say when Matty Bonner is pulling 3.3 a year it's like at what point is it good enough. Faggot Fisher should have never agreed to the last CBA which had Derrick Rose capped at barely more then Bonner. Now that's some serious bullshit.

No way Bonner gets that contract from anyone else. I have no clue why RC bid against himself on both Ginger's and Dick's contracts.

[Giuseppe]

No way Bonner gets that contract from anyone else. I have no clue why RC bid against himself on both Ginger's and Dick's contracts.

He didn't do it independent of Pop. Don't even think about trying that shit, Base.

[Mr. Body]

Are you suggesting that some owner will drop the "picking cotton" line soon? I thought that was reserved to BRHornet and the like...

I'm not sure what most of this means, but I thought Henry Abbott's article on race in the negotiations was terrific. It's not always appropriate to find, but there certainly is a way many in this country get upset when black men have money and try to protect it. So quickly we dissolve into "well they just spend it on drugs and whores," so might as well let the white owners keep more of it, because obviously they deserve it. There is certainly a racial underpinning in all labor negotiations in the NBA.

[ChuckD]

I'm not sure what most of this means, but I thought Henry Abbott's article on race in the negotiations was terrific. It's not always appropriate to find, but there certainly is a way many in this country get upset when black men have money and try to protect it. So quickly we dissolve into "well they just spend it on drugs and whores," so might as well let the white owners keep more of it, because obviously they deserve it. There is certainly a racial underpinning in all labor negotiations in the NBA.

Yeah, Dan whatshisname in Cleveland seems a bit put out by that uppity ###### LeBron deciding his own fate...

[benefactor]

We are both black bitch!
Sure you are. If you are black then so is Kooaid_Man.

[Kori Ellis]

For the millionth time, using the n-word (and all the other slurs) on this forum, isn't permitted. I know that timvp and I haven't spent much time on the forum in recent months, due to personal circumstances, but I'm going to sweep out all the trash. If you guys think it's cool to continue to spout racial slurs and the such, you'll be in the sweep.

[Mel_13]

Is Fisher in Stern's back pocket?

This is opinion: The latest NBA lockout stalemate is all about the basketball-related-income (BRI) split. The owners want 50-50. The players want 52-48.

This is fact: The belief that NBA Players Association president Derek Fisher has been co-opted by commissioner David Stern — and promised the commish he could deliver the union at 50-50 — caused NBPA executive director Billy Hunter and at least one member of the union’s executive committee to confront Fisher on Friday morning and make him reassess his 50-50 push, a source familiar with the negotiations told FOXSports.com Friday afternoon....

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/Whitlock-NBA-lockout-David-Stern-has-Derek-Fisher-in-back-pocket-Billy-Hunter-players-union-not-pleased-102811

[ElNono]

That was never on the table. The floor number for the owners at the table was always 47%.

Allen appears to be checking out on the Blazers, and there’s suspicion that his motives center on saving as much money as possible in this CBA to eventually ready his franchise for a sale.

“He’s gone the other way, the complete other way,” a high-ranking league official told Yahoo! Sports. “He’s been the most vociferous lately that [the owners] have given up too much to the players, that they should be holding out for a hard cap, for 40 percent to the players [on the revenue split]. No one has gone after the labor committee harder about this than him.”

[Mr. Body]

There was an incredible article on Paul Allen upthread. He's a rich old eccentric who has lost interest in the Blazers and is willing to sell out the entire league so he can make a few more million off the sale, even though he's richer than Croesus. He's pure, unadulterated horseshit for a human being.

[Giuseppe]

richer than Croesus

I ain't heard that since Kurt Russell uttered it using "more money..."

:toast

[Bruno]

A good article summarizing what will be the new CBA:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/sam_amick/10/29/nba-labor-proposals/index.html

Basically, the system won't dramatically change. It will be more owners friendly and small market friendly but nothing revolutionary.

[Mr. Body]

They COULDN'T get this done well before the season started???

[ChuckD]

Allen appears to be checking out on the Blazers, and there’s suspicion that his motives center on saving as much money as possible in this CBA to eventually ready his franchise for a sale.

“He’s gone the other way, the complete other way,” a high-ranking league official told Yahoo! Sports. “He’s been the most vociferous lately that [the owners] have given up too much to the players, that they should be holding out for a hard cap, for 40 percent to the players [on the revenue split]. No one has gone after the labor committee harder about this than him.”

The labor committee refers to the internal group of owners tasked with putting together an initial offer and playing hardball in the negotiations, NOT to the players group. Allen was most certainly lobbying the up front negotiating owners, but since he reputedly didn't say a damn word to anyone on the other side of the table during talks or even on breaks, how could he have lobbied them or pushed them into anything? The 40% model was never on the table.

[Giuseppe]

A good article summarizing what will be the new CBA:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/sam_amick/10/29/nba-labor-proposals/index.html

Basically, the system won't dramatically change. It will be more owners friendly and small market friendly but nothing revolutionary.

That luxury tax hit is over the borderline prohibitive. I can't believe the players agreed to that.

Christ.

[Kyle Orton]

Luck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_Lu ck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_

[Kyle Orton]

Lol n word



Nig

[Bruno]

That luxury tax hit is over the borderline prohibitive. I can't believe the players agreed to that.

Christ.

The new luxury tax won't change a lot of things. In the previous system, about 3 teams per year go over the luxury tax threshold by more than $10M. So for 90% of the NBA teams, who pay no luxury tax or very few, this rule will have almost no impact.

And the 3 teams per year who are way above the luxury tax, will likely continue to be at that level. Being $20M over the tax will now cost $45M instead of $20M in tax payment. Lakers with their $150M per year TV deal could very well paid these $25M more per year. Cuban will pay these $25M if it allows him to have a competitive Mavs team.

What should worry Lakers fan is the union wanting that teams above the tax will lose their MLE. It is what could hurt Lakers to improve their team.

[eric365]

What should worry Lakers fan is the union wanting that teams above the tax will lose their MLE. It is what could hurt Lakers to improve their team.

Isn't the contrary ?
The owners are pushing for team above the tax not having the right to use the MLE and the union want to keep it as now.

This point is in favor of small market only. Big market and players are on the same side on this one

[Bruno]

Isn't the contrary ?
The owners are pushing for team above the tax not having the right to use the MLE and the union want to keep it as now.

This point is in favor of small market only. Big market and players are on the same side on this one

Yep, my bad. It's off course the league that wants to remove the MLE for teams in the luxury tax territory.

Big market owners are in fact on the same side than players against small market owners. Big market owners would be damn fine with a 52/48 split and the system players want. Small market owners are the one responsible of this mess.

And it draws another question. Is it logical that Bucks vote count as much as Lakers vote while Lakers generate ten times more money? Same question for the players: Lebron James generate tons of money and has the same weight than a random end of the bench scrub. NBA is a business and shouldn't work on this parity rule. The more money you generate, the more influential you should be in negotiating business' rules.

[ElNono]

The labor committee refers to the internal group of owners tasked with putting together an initial offer and playing hardball in the negotiations, NOT to the players group. Allen was most certainly lobbying the up front negotiating owners, but since he reputedly didn't say a damn word to anyone on the other side of the table during talks or even on breaks, how could he have lobbied them or pushed them into anything? The 40% model was never on the table.

Chuck, I don't disagree that 40% might not have ever been on the table from the owners (though I'm not completely sure), but there were certainly owner(s) wanting to stick to that figure (and I think it was more than just Allen. Sarver and Gilbert were also tossing the hard line out there).

[spurs50_]

Get this done so we can see leonard unleash his fury.

[spurs10]

It would seem with Hunter walking out of the room, after rejecting the 50/50 split, the deal is only going to get harder. I wonder if he stuck it out they could have settled at 51 and saved the season. The players have given up a lot already to be sure. I think both sides are more than ready to lose the entire season rather than get a deal. The consequences to the NBA will be hell to pay. Losing 300 million is bad (though when you add in all the income not included in the BRI, I'm sure it's not so bad)...4 billion in losses will just be the beginning. They better do some thinking over the weekend.....

[ChuckD]

Chuck, I don't disagree that 40% might not have ever been on the table from the owners (though I'm not completely sure), but there were certainly owner(s) wanting to stick to that figure (and I think it was more than just Allen. Sarver and Gilbert were also tossing the hard line out there).

I don't doubt that the owners internally talked 40%. My point was that of the two starting positions in the actual negotiations, 47% for the owners and the current deal of 57%, the players have moved 5 points and the owners have moved 3 points and dug in.

[therealtruth]

I don't doubt that the owners internally talked 40%. My point was that of the two starting positions in the actual negotiations, 47% for the owners and the current deal of 57%, the players have moved 5 points and the owners have moved 3 points and dug in.

I think the owners were claiming they were coming from 41% to show how much they have moved from their original positions. Since the previous CBA was extremely player friendly it makes sense they would have more to give up.

[eric365]

I don't like the amnesty clause.

Basicaly the players that got stupid contract or got lazy after their contract will be rewarded by the full amount of their contract + the possibility to be a free agent.

So Rachard Lewis will get 120M + probably MLE money in a team he want just as a reward to play poorly

[spurs10]

I think the owners were claiming they were coming from 41% to show how much they have moved from their original positions. Since the previous CBA was extremely owner friendly it makes sense they would have more to give up.
If the previous CBA was 'extremely owner friendly', we wouldn't be in a lockout right now.

[ChuckD]

I don't like the amnesty clause.

Basicaly the players that got stupid contract or got lazy after their contract will be rewarded by the full amount of their contract + the possibility to be a free agent.

So Rachard Lewis will get 120M + probably MLE money in a team he want just as a reward to play poorly

Uh, he's not still due $120M. I think he's down to like maybe 40M? The team only pays what's left, not the whole contract.

[eric365]

Uh, he's not still due $120M. I think he's down to like maybe 40M? The team only pays what's left, not the whole contract.

Yes it's the remaining of the contract. If he has only 2 years left it's ~45M for him.

Anyway, he get the whole money and he is rewarded by being a free agent.

[ChuckD]

Yes it's the remaining of the contract. If he has only 2 years left it's ~45M for him.

Anyway, he get the whole money and he is rewarded by being a free agent.

He got the previous money because as badly as he played, he fulfilled those years of the contract. That happens whether there is amnesty or not.

As for the $40M, he's getting that regardless of if he plays those two years or they are amnesty years. Washington gets out from under his horrible cap figure, and diffident play. He gets to be free.

I'm doubting anyone gives him an MLE contract. His buyout is going to be a negotiating point by any team dumb enough to want to sign his lazy ass. They'll want him for minimum, and then they'll want to use the MLE on someone else who isn't receiving $40M in payouts.

[TD 21]

According to this, you can forget about the Spurs using the amnesty on Jefferson: http://eye-on-basketball.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22748484/33013382

Amnesty clause: As Ken Berger of CBSSports.com has reported, a new amnesty clause will be in the new CBA, allowing teams to waive one player at anytime during the life of the new CBA. You still have to pay the players but his salary won't count against the cap and luxury tax. But here's a catch: It can't be used on anyone signed before July 1, 2011. So all that talk about who you'd amnesty would change quite a bit because those players aren't eligible.

He may still be movable though. I've long thought that Jefferson/Blair for Johnson/Kleiza was plausible and the chances of it happening may have improved in the past week, as the Raptors hired Stefanski -- who's credited with drafting Jefferson -- to be their executive vice-president of basketball operations.

[Mel_13]

According to this, you can forget about the Spurs using the amnesty on Jefferson: http://eye-on-basketball.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22748484/33013382

Amnesty clause: As Ken Berger of CBSSports.com has reported, a new amnesty clause will be in the new CBA, allowing teams to waive one player at anytime during the life of the new CBA. You still have to pay the players but his salary won't count against the cap and luxury tax.[B] But here's a catch: It can't be used on anyone signed [I]before July 1, 2011. So all that talk about who you'd amnesty would change quite a bit because those players aren't eligible.



I'm fairly certain that the writer of that blog has it backwards. For what he says to be true, it would mean that no player currently under contract can be released under the new amnesty. It could only be used on players yet to be signed. That just doesn't pass the common sense test.

It's much more likely that the new amnesty will only apply to players currently under contract and anyone signed after July 1, 2011 would not be eligible.

[slick'81]

yeah i thought it was to be used on current players not players just signed

[ElNono]

Yeah, that's probably a typo. It should read after not before. I've heard owners couldn't use it on new contracts under the new CBA.

[lrrr]

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/32935/more-flexible-amnesty-clause-on-way

Holt wants 2 years to decide to use the amnesty clause?

Thoughts?

[benefactor]

It's a typo.


Amnesty clause: Each team will be permitted to waive one player, with pay — anytime during the life of the C.B.A. — and have his salary be exempt from the cap and the luxury tax. Its use will be limited to players already under contract as of July 1, 2011.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/30/sports/basketball/nba-deal-is-close-but-last-hurdle-is-a-big-one.html?ref=basketball

[ElNono]

Now that Holt is sitting across the aisle from Bonner and sees him as the enemy, I just hope he understand how your average Spursfan feels, tbh...

Unfortunately Holt would probably need at least 2 amnesty clauses to fix this roster.

[Dex]

Now that Holt is sitting across the aisle from Bonner and sees him as the enemy, I just hope he understand how your average Spursfan feels, tbh...

Unfortunately Holt would probably need at least 2 amnesty clauses to fix this roster.

If Pop used Bonner sparingly like he should be used, instead of relying on him as first big off the bench, then he wouldn't really be a problem.

Unfortunately, the odds of that are about as likely as a CBA deal being done tomorrow.

[ElNono]

If Pop used Bonner sparingly like he should be used

That ship sailed two/three seasons ago. tbh, I'm sick and tired of hearing the same shit, but I don't want to turn this thread into another redhead argument (even though at the moment it doesn't look like there's anything else to talk about).

[slick'81]

fck bonner

[Bruno]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozanian/2011/01/26/the-nbas-most-valuable-teams-2/2/


However, if NBA commissioner David Stern gets his way, an imbecile would be able to make money running a team. Stern wants to lop $750 million off of player costs, lowering the portion of basketball-related revenue that goes to players from 57% to around 40%. If Stern succeeds, even teams like the Hornets, who were thought to be headed for bankruptcy before the NBA rescued the franchise, would immediately rise at least 30% in value because potential buyers would know they don’t run the risk of writing checks to cover operating losses.

I think it's a reason why players should really fight not to get a too much owners-friendly new CBA.

The better the CBA is for owners, the more expensive teams will be to buy. New owners, who will buy their team in the future years for a lot of money, will then try to get an even better new CBA when the next one will be over. A too much owners-friendly CBA will be the start of a loop with franchises being more and more expensive to buy and players getting less and less money.

While owners shouldn't lose money, they shouldn't be too much profitable. The NBA should be a business slightly less profitable than the rest of the economic field. I want a league with owners liking basketball and having fun owning a team. Owners having a team just to make money would be a disaster for the NBA. Fans don't deserve to have 30 Donald Sterling at the helm of teams.

[DesignatedT]

So are these assholes meeting again this week or what?

[spurs10]

So are these assholes meeting again this week or what?
Seems to be the 4 billion dollar question?

[Dex]

I still we should start taking bets.

What will come first: CBA deal, or Mayan Apocalypse?

[Dex]

Bottom line, right here:

http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/8300/two-economists-explain-the-nba-lockout


Why don’t the players settle?
Perhaps because they have done so well in the past, it’s hard for the players to accept that the owners are dead set on hammering them this time. They feel, correctly, that they have been making all the concessions. Imagine trying to redo your “chores deal” with your spouse, with one side giving in on every negotiating point. As human beings, we are programmed to reject one-sided deals, even when surrender might be the rational choice.

How far apart are the two sides?
The split on BRI (Basketball Related Income) is supposedly the biggest point of contention. Players want 52.5 percent (down from 57 in the previous contract). Owners are “adamant” on 50 percent and started with an initial lowball offer of 37.

Take the NBA’s 2009-10 BRI estimate of $3.6 billion; 2.5 percent of that is $90 million. Let’s say the life of the contract is 6 years. The total value of that over six years, with reinvestment, is around $500 million.

Is it economically worthwhile for the players to hold out for $500 million?
No. Total NBA salaries last year were over $1.5 billion, about three times the amount they are fighting over. Canceling a third of the current season would wipe out the gain of winning the extra 2.5 percent of BRI over the life of the new collective bargaining agreement. Canceling the whole season over 2.5 percent of BRI is insane for the players.

Of course there are other issues relating to the salary cap, like the length of contracts, but the BRI split seems to be the sticking point.

Sounds like some of those players at the negotiating table should've payed a little more attention in Economics class.

Not saying that makes what the owners are doing is right, but ethics is apparently out the window. If the lockout extends through December (which is not far off at this point), players will have pretty much lost everything they are currently bargaining for. It's like they are holding the game hostage on principle alone. The problem is...nobody cares.

[Mr. Body]

Sounds like some of those players at the negotiating table should've payed a little more attention in Economics class.

Nope. If you let ownership rape you in this CBA, they're just going to rape you even harder next CBA. It is economically irrational to give up points of negotiation for no reason.

Sounds like someone needs to read more game theory.

[Dex]

Nope. If you let ownership rape you in this CBA, they're just going to rape you even harder next CBA. It is economically irrational to give up points of negotiation for no reason.

Sounds like someone needs to read more game theory.

Isn't it going to happen anyways? Owners have already indicated that they were waiting for it to come to this. Sure, they are losing NBA income, too, but they obviously weren't counting on that in the first place since most of them (supposedly) aren't making a profit as it is. The players, meanwhile, need that income.

Owners can bigstack the players until they get what they want, and they've already said that the more money that gets lost in revenue, the worse their offers are going to get, so I don't see them suddenly changing their stance and giving any concessions to the players (like, say, going up to 51-52%).

It's not about the players winning at this point; it's about how badly they are going to let themselves lose. What does it do for future negotiations if the players lose the battle, AND lose the war?

[DesignatedT]

The players are going to fold one way or another. There is no winning for them, sooner they realize this the sooner we have basketball.

[spurs10]

Isn't it going to happen anyways? Owners have already indicated that they were waiting for it to come to this. Sure, they are losing NBA income, too, but they obviously weren't counting on that in the first place since most of them (supposedly) aren't making a profit as it is. The players, meanwhile, need that income.

Owners can bigstack the players until they get what they want, and they've already said that the more money that gets lost in revenue, the worse their offers are going to get, so I don't see them suddenly changing their stance and giving any concessions to the players (like, say, going up to 51-52%).

It's not about the players winning at this point; it's about how badly they are going to let themselves lose.
This, unfortunately, is about right. Basically the same thing David Aldridge is saying, 'it's going to get worse from here.' I think the more wealthy players have decided, like the owners, to sacrifice this season all together. The damage will be stupid and insurmountable....billions. Rich people don't like to capitulate....apparently. Makes me want to spend a few thousand bucks on tickets.....
:ihit:greedy:ihit

[ElNono]

Take the NBA’s 2009-10 BRI estimate of $3.6 billion; 2.5 percent of that is $90 million. Let’s say the life of the contract is 6 years. The total value of that over six years, with reinvestment, is around $500 million.

This actually is a fairly gross oversimplification that doesn't take into account the fact that BRI has been growing at a steady rate of about $100 million a year, makes the calculation over the 2009-10 BRI when the 2010-11 BRI is already known ($3.817 billion), and uses 6 years as the deal term when the owners have been pretty adamant that it be a 10 year deal with perhaps an out at year 7.

Even if we were to take the deal at 6 year, the actual player's losses going from 57% to the proverbial 50% after indexing for BRI increases and on a 6 year deal is a little north of $2 billion. Sure, that 57% isn't coming back, but basically the players already assumed losses for $1.5 billion. Does standing firm for another $500 million makes sense? Well, they already loss that much money, might as well try to save a bit of what they can.

[Dex]

Does standing firm for another $500 million makes sense? Well, they already loss that much money, might as well try to save a bit of what they can.

What are the odds they actually win that battle, though?

The worst case (and seemingly more likely) scenario is that the players take the losses that accompany missing one month to an entire season worth of games, and still end up caving to the 50% anyways (or worse). Then they just end up with a boatload of lost cash AND egg on their face.

[ElNono]

What are the odds they actually win that battle, though?

The worst case (and seemingly more likely) scenario is that the players take the losses that accompany missing 1 month to an entire season worth of games, and still end up caving to the 50% anyways (or worse). Then they just end up with a boatload of lost cash AND egg on their face.

The chances they win that battle are slim, no doubt. But make no mistake, they already lost a boatload of cash AND have an egg on their face.

Just looking at the previous CBA vs what's been agreed to by the players at this point (even with a 52.5%) is a fairly major swing towards the owners.

Players already lost $2 billions that are not coming back. Maybe they'll just have the owners eat $2 billion too to show them how that feels. Is it stupid? Maybe. What I'd like to see if the final resolution from the NLRB, as I feel that's the player's last hope to gain any kind of minimal leverage.

[ElNono]

BTW, this is a good read on the NLRB topic, and I think part of the reason why we had some frantic negotiations last week:

http://espn.go.com/espn/commentary/story/_/page/munson-111028/nba-lockout-negotiations-intensify-nlrb-decision-nears

[DPG21920]

I said that before anyone, El ^. I even tweeted Larry Coon about it and he flat out denied it. The timing was too suspicious to believe otherwise.

[ElNono]

I just want the resolution out so that's one less thing to deal with. At least whatever speculation there is that players are waiting for the ruling would go away.

[Dex]

Asked Woj if there was any expectation of more talks...his responses:


WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski
So far, there's been no new bargaining session scheduled between the owners and players.
37 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply

WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski
The NBA and NBPA are discussing possibility of returning federal mediator George Cohen to labor talks this week, sources tell Y! Sports.
40 minutes ago

[DPG21920]

Why they aren't continuing to talk is beyond me. Like Nono said, I really hope this NLRB ruling comes out soon so we at least have that out of the way one way or another.

[ulosturedge]

Why they aren't continuing to talk is beyond me. Like Nono said, I really hope this NLRB ruling comes out soon so we at least have that out of the way one way or another.

Well the way Hunter ended talks it won't be the owners making phone calls to the NBPA. Until the players are ready to concede a little more there won't be anything to talk about. At best the players concede(and might as well do it soon) at worst the season is lost. I don't see the Owners changing their stance whatsoever.

[Duncan2177]

Derek Fisher defends loyalty in letter



In his latest letter to fellow players, union president Derek Fisher strongly denied a published report over the weekend that union president Billy Hunter and other members of the union's executive board have questioned Fisher about his relationship with NBA commissioner David Stern and deputy commissioner Adam Silver. In Monday night's letter, which was obtained by ESPN.com, Fisher responded to the Saturday report from FoxSports.com columnist Jason Whitlock by telling union members: "Usually I wouldn't even dignify absurd media reports with a comment. But before these reports go any further, let me say on the record to each of you, my loyalty has and always will be with the players. "Anyone that questions that or doubts that does not know me, my history and what I stand for. And quite frankly, how dare anyone call that into question? The Players Association is united and any reports to the contrary are false. There have been no side agreements, no side negotiations or anything close. We are united in serving you and presenting the best options and getting everyone back to work."

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7176180/nba-lockout-derek-fisher-says-report-questioning-union-loyalty-absurd

[DPG21920]

:lmao "how dare they question me" after what he did to Utah. I don't know who's worse, Mourning or Fisher.

[spurs10]

I wonder if the lack of a ruling by the NLRB is indicative of their lack of concern about this battle of the wealthy. It would be great to know, but a ruling that doesn't favor the players would be catastrophic to them right now. Maybe the NLRB is holding out as a favor to the players.

[slick'81]

what a load of bs

[Roger Freemason Jr.]

Now this whole quarrel is sailing into pathetic waters for the players. They're literally just delaying the inevitable now. They're still rich, so they need to swallow their pride, and keep on getting paid absurd amounts to play a game.

[Giuseppe]

:lmao "how dare they question me" after what he did to Utah. I don't know who's worse, Mourning or Fisher.

Fisher:::he smacked Kobe upside the cocksucker and got him straightened out--Game 7, '10 Finals.

Hey, nephew,,,

just like that.

[Bruno]

Heat's owner got fined $500K for his comments on twitter. Big market owners should regroup and end this whole negotiation being dictate by Stern and small market owners. It's time for them to let people know that they aren't the ones responsible of that mess.

At that stage of the lockout, players should rather wait a couple of weeks to see what the NLRB says instead of accepting a crappy new CBA. From what I've read, players have a strong case against owners at the NLRB.

[Giuseppe]

^Exactly. There is no harm in waiting. The November 15th paycheck & December 1st paycheck are gone.

[boutons_deux]

"Shaq is rich. The white man who signs his checks is wealthy"

-- Chris Rock

[spurs10]

Heat's owner got fined $500K for his comments on twitter. Big market owners should regroup and end this whole negotiation being dictate by Stern and small market owners. It's time for them to let people know that they aren't the ones responsible of that mess.

At that stage of the lockout, players should rather wait a couple of weeks to see what the NLRB says instead of accepting a crappy new CBA. From what I've read, players have a strong case against owners at the NLRB.
Arison's fine is ridiculously over the top. He needs to fight that with all he's got.
As far as the NLRB, I really hope they rule in favor of the players and they do it today. It's about the only way this thing is going to end in a fair way imo. The owners have all the leverage because they don't make their living off basketball presumably. I'm just concerned because some experts have said that because these union workers are not exactly working on the docks, that the NLRB might not be sympathetic.

[Mr. Body]

Yeah, that Airson fine is utterly ludicrous. David Stern has gone insane.

[spurs10]

Maybe I'm watching too much Dexter and Scarface, but if I were Stern I'd think twice about screwing someone from Miami in such an insulting way....

[Mel_13]

Maybe I'm watching too much Dexter and Scarface, but if I were Stern I'd think twice about screwing someone from Miami in such an insulting way....

"Stern told the room he knows where “the bodies are buried” in the NBA, witnesses recounted, because he had buried some of them himself."

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-wojnarowski_nba_labor_battle_looming_032111

[spurs10]

"Stern told the room he knows where “the bodies are buried” in the NBA, witnesses recounted, because he had buried some of them himself."

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-wojnarowski_nba_labor_battle_looming_032111
Getting more like the Godfather with Stern playing the Lee Strasberg role...

[Dex]

Today should be the start of the season. :pctoss

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Getting more like the Godfather with Stern playing the Lee Strasberg role...

and Billy Hunter can be Fredo :lol

[slick'81]

Today should be the start of the season. :pctoss


i was thinking about that last night when theres usually games on halloween

[Dex]

Sounds like the player's union is starting to crack if you are inclined to believe Woj (and I am).

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=As8IK7Sp9i0LGKXE7.WlDXO8vLYF?slug=aw-wojnarowski_nba_lockout_billy_hunter_110111


Hunter’s actions in NBA labor talks weaken union
By Adrian Wojnarowski, Yahoo! Sports 1 hour, 1 minute ago

After Billy Hunter made the grand stand of marching out of Friday’s bargaining session, refusing to negotiate below 52 percent of the NBA’s revenue split, there emerged a strong movement within the Players Association that’s vows the union will never let him act so unilaterally again.

From superstars to midlevel players to rookies, there’s an unmistakable push to complete the final elements of the system and take this labor deal to the union’s 400-plus membership. Beyond that, there’s an even larger movement to push Hunter, the Players Association’s executive director, out the door once these labor talks are done. All hell’s broken loose within the union, and no one is exactly sure how they’re going to get a deal to the finish line.

“Billy can’t just say it’s 52 or nothing, and walk out again,” one league source involved the talks told Yahoo! Sports. “That will not happen again. It’s time that the players get to make a decision on this, and there won’t be another check lost before they do.”

Rest assured, there’s a vast gulf in the union, and it’s growing with the passing of every day. Players Association president Derek Fisher’s(notes) letter to the players convinced no one otherwise. NBA commissioner David Stern and the owners know it, and it’s part of the reason they won’t raise their offer of the BRI revenue split to 51 percent. There are system issues that need to be resolved for players, but this deal gets done at 50-50, and that’s been true for a long, long time.

In the end, there are two courses for the union: Take the deal largely on the table or blow this up, decertify and lose the season fighting the NBA in the federal courts.

Only, it’s too late to decertify. Everyone wanted to do it back in July when the lockout started, and Hunter refused. His decision had nothing to do with legal strategy, nothing to do with leverage or getting the best possible deal for the players. It had everything to do with what it always does with Hunter: self-preservation. He worried about losing power, losing his job, and he sold everyone on a toothless National Labor Relations Board claim that’s going nowhere.

This union is threatening to implode, the push and pull of people wanting to cut a deal and those willing to keep warring over the final percentage points. Within the NBPA, the frustration with Hunter is this: Hunter knows where the deal will be made, but he’s engaged in a smear campaign to frame Fisher as a sellout to the league. For Hunter, the end game is simple: Divide and conquer, and ultimately try keep his own job beyond this labor agreement. This is a lousy deal for the players, and Hunter wants the blame everywhere else.

Yes, this has created doubts about Fisher, but it’s hurt Hunter far more. Once, he had the stars on his side, and that’s rapidly dissipating.

Hunter wants everyone to believe he’s the last holdout on going to a 50-50 split, that everyone else – especially Fisher – is dragging him there. Suddenly, he’s the tough guy standing alone. Suddenly, everyone else is caving and cutting side deals. Once it was the agents who wanted Hunter out. Now, there are star players lining up for a piece of him. They won’t move until there’s a deal done, but when they do, it will be swift, unruly and unpleasant.

“Right now, everyone has to choose sides: Billy or Derek,” one player involved in the labor process told Yahoo! Sports. “How the [expletive] did it come to this?”

For starters, it comes from an unseemly brew of hubris, ego and insecurity. On every level, this has been a disgrace, an embarrassment for the players, and it’s threatening to unravel the entire union. Most of all, the clock’s ticking on getting a deal done. November’s been slashed in the NBA regular season, and December’s on deck.

Stern is holding back the hawkish owners who want to pull the 50 percent offer off the table. The hardline owners are indeed pushing Stern to drop the league’s offer back under 50 percent as games are missed, but as one high-ranking official said: “The others realize that if you do that, you will lose a season. If the players will not take 50 now, they will not take less than 50 until they sit the whole year.”

If there’s one more round of games cancelations, owners are privately threatening what Stern publicly promised: a worse offer. That’s why a deal needs to get done sooner than later. From inside and outside, the union is teetering.

And if Fisher has talked privately with league negotiators – Stern, deputy commissioner Adam Silver, San Antonio Spurs owner Peter Holt – here’s the thing: So what? He’s the president of the Players Association, and ultimately, Hunter works for the players.

If Fisher didn’t tell his peers on the executive committee, that’s a mistake. If he didn’t tell Hunter, that’s probably a mistake, too. Yet, it’s clear trust broke down between them sometime ago, and make no mistake, that’s on the both of them. Yet Fisher’s job is to cut the best possible deal for the players, and pretending the owners will climb to 52 percent – even 51 – as players lose checks is irresponsible. To go down to 50-50 doesn’t make you in the pocket of the NBA or corrupted. There’s far more support for a deal there than Hunter wants everyone to believe, and that includes among the league’s elite players.

The bigger issues are the motives of Hunter and his one-man wrecking crew of a PR consultant, David Cummings. Even the people suspicious of Fisher inside and outside the union – those who don’t necessarily love him – believe that he’s worked relentlessly with the lawyers, economists and players to do the job right. He hasn’t mailed it in; just the opposite. This doesn’t make him successful in the job, because its results oriented – just like his career as a player. There are a lot of reasons for a bad deal, and most go back to Hunter’s refusal to decertify and gain some leverage with the owners.

Nevertheless, the end game of the players’ deal doesn’t make Fisher corrupt, on the take or a sellout of his peers. Only, Fisher knows in his heart what has happened, and maybe someday an agenda could come clear. Not now, though. Not with Hunter and his minions running this kind of low-rent garbage.

For now, Billy Hunter has the clearest agenda here: self-preservation. This job is too public now, too scrutinized to think smoke and mirrors can save you. Those days are done, and probably so is he.

To take on the NBA – Stern, Silver, the owners, the lawyers, the PR machine – everyone needs to be pulling the same way, with the same goals. As the union fought for its survival, so has Billy Hunter. Only, he’s been chasing his own, and he’s going to lose that fight, too.

Sooner than later, these labor talks need to get out of Fisher’s and Hunter’s hands, and into those of the rank and file. Whatever the civil war, the Players Association still belongs to the players. They should take it back, and take it back now.

[slick'81]

Adrian Wojnarowski's latest lockout column focuses on the growing thought that the players are ready to accept a deal, while Billy Hunter remains focused on not settling for less than 52 percent of BRI.

"Right now, everyone has to choose sides: Billy or Derek," one player involved in the labor process told Yahoo! Sports. "How the [expletive] did it come to this?" As we've said repeatedly, the players are either going to have to cave now or later, and it sounds like the majority want to play ball now. No further meetings are scheduled, but that could change at any second. Hit the link for the full story.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=As8IK7Sp9i0LGKXE7.WlDXO8vLYF?slug=aw-wojnarowski_nba_lockout_billy_hunter_110111

[Bender]

^ slick's not payin' attention

[FuzzyLumpkins]

i realize that the players got 57% of total revenue last season but what was the percentage set to for the luxury tax? its hard to jedge anything when they are giving an oversimplification of the past.

[ace3g]

usat_jzillgitt Jeff Zillgitt
by sam_amick
NBPA, NBA will meet in a U.S. district courtroom Wednesday to hear oral arguments on complaint NBA filed Aug. 2; NBPA wants case dismissed.



IamaGM IamaGM.com
by sam_amick
So the NBA started a verified twitter account to clear up any misinformation they see on here - @NBA_Labor

[gospursgojas]

I wish just one player...JUST ONE... would come out and say "I just wanna play bc I love the game".

[Mr. Body]

The players should take the deal, but then when Stern is attending a game, they should sling the ball right at his face very time they touch it.

[Dex]

The players should take the deal, but then when Stern is attending a game, they should sling the ball right at his face very time they touch it.

:tu I would pay to see that.

[ElNono]

The players should take the deal, but then when Stern is attending a game, they should sling the ball right at his face very time they touch it.

And then Czar Stern does the :td thing and issues a $30m fine. The dude is out of control.

[ElNono]

I wish just one player...JUST ONE... would come out and say "I just wanna play bc I love the game".

I just wanna play bc I love the game

[ChuckD]

I wish just one player...JUST ONE... would come out and say "I just wanna play bc I love the game".

You think there aren't owners who want to get this done by giving the players the 52.5%? The dude from Miami just got fined $500K for a deleted tweet.

[TDMVPDPOY]

did you guys read the cap could be 61m 12/13 season....that be sweet if we can amnesty that turd rj, with duncans contract of the books and ginobolis contract in the final year...we could be major players in FA....

[Dex]

did you guys read the cap could be 61m 12/13 season....that be sweet if we can amnesty that turd rj, with duncans contract of the books and ginobolis contract in the final year...we could be major players in FA....

This raises another question: IF Duncan comes back, what does his new deal look like?

[InRareForm]

"Glen Davis: Just take the 51% and let's play man."

[DPG21920]

There is not a 51% offer

[Dex]

What we want to hear...


I wish just one player...JUST ONE... would come out and say "I just wanna play bc I love the game".

And what players really think...


"Glen Davis: Just take the 51% and let's play man."

:greedy :cry :greedy

[Seventyniner]

This raises another question: IF Duncan comes back, what does his new deal look like?

I've heard something about a "stretch clause" that would allow teams to spread a player's cap hit over more years than their contract runs for.

1) Could the Spurs do that with Duncan? Give him $5 million or something for the next 6 years even though he wouldn't play all 6 of them.
2) Would this end the "over-36" rule, which currently would put the cap hit of a 6-year/$30M contract for Duncan all into the first 2 or 3 years.

[Giuseppe]

The BRI no longer matters. The players gave it all away in the system stipulations. Closing the barn door now is senseless. The horses are long gone.

[Mr. Body]

The BRI no longer matters. The players gave it all away in the system stipulations. Closing the barn door now is senseless. The horses are long gone.

David Stern fines the barn doors $500,000.

[Dex]

David Stern fines the barn doors $500,000.

A letter just leaked from Mr. Ed insisting the horses stand united.

[Dex]

Regarding the court proceedings between NBA and NBPA today:


SportsLawGuy Gabe Feldman
Judge asking for more briefing in NBA case is a win for the league. Delay=maintaining status quo=lockout lives=win for NBA...
1 hour ago

KBergCBS Ken Berger
There's little significance to today's court proceedings. Both sides recognize best shot at a deal is to agree to one at bargaining table.
1 hour ago

ZachLowe_SI Zach Lowe
Larger upshot: Judge wants more papers, and league has indicated they have more to file. Ruling time uncertain. Bargaining still best shot
1 hour ago

KBergCBS Ken Berger
Court spokeswoman confirms U.S. District Judge Paul Gardephe did not rule on @TheNBPA's motion to [dismiss] NBA's lawsuit Wednesday.
1 hour ago

ZachLowe_SI Zach Lowe
One court highlight: Judge to NBA lawyer: Your "allegations against union are pretty thin." Union lawyer, minutes later: "Thin loses."
1 hour ago

[DPG21920]

Good read:

http://www.hoopsworld.com/nba-salary-cap-chat-with-larry-coon-11211/

I know this wasn't the point, but I love how he compares people with disabilities to the owners because I can't think of anything more accurate :lol


Larry, why doesn’t the proposed amnesty rule allow for prudent teams with no bad long-term contracts (like the Rockets, Thunder or Pacers) from trading for another team’s pre-existing contract and then using the amnesty on it? This way, those teams’ prudence can still be rewarded. To not allow this would be to unnecessarily punish the smarter teams, especially since all 30 teams knew we were heading for this situation for over two years!

Part of Larry's response:


Continuing the “accommodation” viewpoint — think about workplace accommodations to people with physical disabilities. We provide them, but most people don’t need them. We don’t have the right to say, “hey, they get special accommodations, so we want something too!” An accommodation goes to those who need it, and that’s all.

[Dex]

HowardBeckNYT Howard Beck
NBPA board will meet Thur in NY. Some hope that talks w/NBA could resume Fri or Sat, tho nothing set yet. Story soon at nytimes.com
1 hour ago

[ace3g]

STEIN_LINE_HQ Marc Stein
RT @ESPNDallas: Sources: Derek Fisher addresses alleged NBA meeting with union's executive committee - es.pn/uPwUR5


http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7183187/derek-fisher-addresses-alleged-nba-meeting-union-executive-committee

[Brazil]

Here we go I'm tired of that nego start the damn season now !

[Dex]

http://philly.sbnation.com/philadelphia-76ers/2011/11/3/2536165/nba-lockout-update-players-and-owners-to-reconvene-saturday-David-Stern


NBA Lockout Update: Players And Owners To Reconvene Saturday
Nov 03 4:23p
by Aaron Taube

After a breakdown in talks between the National Basketball Association Players Association and NBA owners last Friday forced the league to cancel all games through Nov. 30, the two sides will hope to prevent the cancellation of more when they reconvene Saturday, according to a report Thursday from ESPN.

The cancellation of games through the end of November also meant the league would be unable to play out a full, 82- game season in 2011-2012. According to the report, Saturday's meeting could be the last chance for the players and owners to come to some sort of an agreement before commissioner David Stern has to cancel another batch of games.

The two sides have been making progress on how they will structure the salary cap when the league resumes play, the luxury tax and the mid-level exception. But there remains a gap in the percentage of basketball-related income (BRI) each side feels it should be entitled to. The owners have offered the players somewhere around 50 percent of the BRI, but the players union has been deadset on getting 52 percent.

[DPG21920]

That NBA_Labor Twitter account is one of the most ludicrous things I have ever seen.

[DPG21920]

Breaking story from Yahoo! about major rift in players union. I will post the link when it's up. Not good...

[Dex]

WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski
The threat of decert is a strategy too. The players need leverage on owners; mere discussion of decert can help push NBA toward making deal.
1 minute ago Favorite Retweet Reply

HowardBeckNYT Howard Beck
Decertification drive would mean it is done w/out union officials' participation or approval essentially dismissing them.
17 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply

HowardBeckNYT Howard Beck
Remember, there are two ways to dissolve a union: disclaimer (by union officials) or decertification (initiated by players themselves)...
18 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply

HowardBeckNYT Howard Beck
50 NBA players are threatening decertification of union w/out progress toward a palatable deal. Story up any minute on nytimes.com
25 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply

WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski
Story coming on Yahoo! Sports soon.
38 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply

WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski
Here was theme: If NBPA drops below 52% on BRI, and/or remaining system issues go league's way, then this will become movement to decertify.
40 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply

WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski
Calls included several All-Stars. One source on calls told Y!: "We're beyond frustrated with concessions that have already been made."
44 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply

WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski
There were two conference calls held this week -- Tuesday and Thursday -- without knowledge of NBPA officials, sources tell Y!
47 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply

WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski
As many as 50 NBA players were part of conference call with anti-trust attorney Thursday discussing union decertification, sources tell Y!
49 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply

HowardBeckNYT Howard Beck
Key Hunter quote re revenue split: "I don’t think there should ever be a circumstance where owners make the same or more than the players."
56 minutes ago


More here from NYTimes: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/04/sports/basketball/nba-talks-to-resume-saturday.html?_r=1&src=tp

[DPG21920]

Now they want to talk decertification?

[Dex]

Now they want to talk decertification?

Because that's just what this fiasco needed....more complication and internal bickering.

[Mel_13]

Now they want to talk decertification?


Because that's just what this fiasco needed....more complication and internal bickering.

It's the agents. Hunter has managed to keep them in check to this point, but he's losing his grip on the union.

[DPG21920]

Does no good now though.

[dylankerouac]

If talk of decertification or actual decertification gets the players what they need I am all for it. Sucks if it may ruin chances for a season but with all the concessions they have already made this whole lockout has been a losing battle for the players and it is only going to get worse in future labor battles of the NBA. At some point the players need to stand strong and stand together to stop being bullied by the owners. Once the owners get 50% they are not going to take less in the future but I bet they will ask for more.

It is a what?, a billion dollar industry and the players deserve their appropriate share of revenue for putting their skills on display and making the industry profitable to begin with.

[DPG21920]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-wojnarowski_nba_players_lockout_110311

As many as 50 disgruntled NBA players – including several All-Stars – participated in a clandestine conference call with a top antitrust attorney on Thursday to discuss the process of decertifying the Players Association, league sources told Yahoo! Sports.

Angry with the concessions already made to the owners and fearful of worse ones coming with the completion of a new collective bargaining agreement, the players could push for a scenario that throws negotiations into chaos and could eventually lead to the loss of the 2011-12 season.

The players, frustrated with the deal union officials have been negotiating, held a call on Tuesday to discuss the state of labor talks with the NBA, and explored their options on Thursday with the antitrust attorney, sources said.

[ElNono]

Does no good now though.

Why not?

Hunter sold them on the NLRB decision to gain leverage and that's still not coming. The only other possibility for players to gain any kind of leverage is the anti-trust suits after decertification.

I think Wednesday comments from the judge saying the NBA's case is "thin" probably gave the agent's lawyers a good hint that they could get away with decertifying.

It's no slam dunk for the players, but the prospects are better than signing off on whatever the owners would offer now (which might not even be 50/50 after cancelling more games).

[ElNono]

Basically, the last owners proposal rolls back 20+ years of gains for the players. And going forward, I doubt it's going to get better for them. It's a back breaker and I'm not surprised they're making a stand.

[ChuckD]

Does no good now though.

It's the nuclear option, which is why they haven't used it yet. Using it also closes the door on anything from the NLRB. No union, no NLRB case.

[Dex]

We're not going to be seeing basketball anytime soon.

[ElNono]

We're not going to be seeing basketball anytime soon.

And that's the real fan's main concern... but I feel both sides believe there's much more at stake here. Like it or not, the reason the players have the benefits they do now is because some former players stood their ground back in the day. And I've read that some of those former players have been talking with the current crop of players to let them know that.

[Giuseppe]

Basically, the last owners proposal rolls back 20+ years of gains for the players.

It's tantamount to a criminal act.

[Giuseppe]

Like it or not, the reason the players have the benefits they do now is because some former players stood their ground back in the day. And I've read that some of those former players have been talking with the current crop of players to let them know that.

Fuckin' 'eh.

[Bruno]

This desertification talks are a good news to me because it puts more pressure on owners to do compromises. It's time for small market owners and Stern to stop acting like bullies and it's time for them to understand that they have a lot to lose in this lockout. Put some heat on them

[mathbzh]

This desertification talks are a good news to me because it puts more pressure on owners to do compromises. It's time for small market owners and Stern to stop acting like bullies and it's time for them to understand that they have a lot to lose in this lockout. Put some heat on them

One thing I wonder is if players could break their contract because of the lockout to gain some leverage (I think it would be fair... if I am not getting my money, I want my freedom... but I don't know what the law says).
Rose, Griffin, Wall and some lower profile like Ibaka... if these players threaten to break their contract... teams long term plan would fall apart.

[Bruno]

One thing I wonder is if players could break their contract because of the lockout to gain some leverage (I think it would be fair... if I am not getting my money, I want my freedom... but I don't know what the law says).
Rose, Griffin, Wall and some lower profile like Ibaka... if these players threaten to break their contract... teams long term plan would fall apart.

Even if underpaid players succeed at breaking their contracts, it wouldn't give them a lot of leverage. To counter that, the league would just put a rule in the new CBA stating that players, who break their contracts, can only come back in the NBA by re-signing their previous contracts.

The only players, who could realistically try to break their contracts, are the ones not interested in staying in the NBA. Rudy Fernandez is said to want to come back in Spain but I don't know why he hasn't try to break his NBA contract. Maybe he isn't that sure about not wanting to play in the NBA.

[Bruno]

BTW, Tony Parker thinks the lockout will end soon:
http://www.sport24.com/basket/pro-a/actualites/je-suis-en-mission-513363

"I think we are really close of an agreement, it will be maybe reached in the next 10 days."

[spurs50_]

what is it that the players want? how can everyone else be tightening their belt while the basketball players make money and scrub players are making millions. small market teams should be able to compete, does'nt make them bullies.. go owners

[Seventyniner]

what is it that the players want? how can everyone else be tightening their belt while the basketball players make money and scrub players are making millions. small market teams should be able to compete, does'nt make them bullies.. go owners

The players want something resembling the previous CBA, and the owners want something completely new.


BTW, about decertification, I thought I read somewhere that if the players' union decertifies, it would 100% kill the entire 2011-2012 season due to the length of the court battles involved. Is that true?

[DPG21920]

I think this makes the players look unorganized and fragile. Owners can very well see this as a sign of weakness. From most reports owners were willing to lose a season in order to break the players backs so this could hurt[From a basketball this season point of view].

However, I do see how this gains the players leverage due to the threat and it at least test the owners and how much they really are willing to lose an NBA season before they start to negotiate. The potential ramifications of a favorable ruling for the players is really scary for owners.

I also read though, that the NLRB could block a decertification by the players at the moment.

I agree players should lose a season if the offer doesn't improve although its a horrific option.

[DPG21920]

what is it that the players want? how can everyone else be tightening their belt while the basketball players make money and scrub players are making millions. small market teams should be able to compete, does'nt make them bullies.. go owners

This is so off base. Before I argue with you, read this and then ask that small market being able to compete question again.

http://www.nba.com/2011/news/features/david_aldridge/10/17/morning-tip-labor-update/index.html


"People say, 'Well, they bought a sports team; they should expect to lose money,'" he said. "No, they shouldn't. Because when you spend the amounts of money that these teams now cost, and the losses pile up because the players' salaries have gone up from a billion that we were arguing about in 1999 to $2 billion plus, I'm not going to say. 'Oh, we shouldn't make a profit; the goal here is to break even.' Wrong."

No one disagrees with that. Even Hunter doesn't disagree with that. His argument is that the players alone shouldn't provide the margin by which teams can be profitable.

There is another leg to the league argument, of course, and that is that it must alter the CBA to ensure that more teams can have a chance to win titles. Some folks agree with that contention, saying the league has become a collection of haves in Miami and L.A. and Chicago whose advantages will only grow with time because of their ability to go into the luxury tax year after year to acquire and to keep players.

This argument, though, ignores six decades of history.

The Lakers and Knicks and Celtics have always had a leg up on their competitors. The NBA has always been a league of dynasties, with few teams able to break through and challenge the hegemony of the dominant franchises.

A recap:
1950-1960: Minneapolis Lakers, four of 10 titles
1960-1970: Boston Celtics, nine of 10 titles
1980-1990: L.A. Lakers, five of 10 titles; Celtics three titles; Detroit Pistons, two titles
1990-2000: Chicago Bulls, six of 10 titles; Houston Rockets, two titles
2000-2010: Lakers, five of 10 titles; San Antonio Spurs, three titles

You'll notice the 1970-1980 decade is missing. That was the only period in league history that can truly be considered democratic. Eight different teams won championships: the Celtics, Knicks, Bucks, Lakers, Warriors, Blazers, Bullets and Sonics. That would seem to be the kind of parity the league is now seeking. And the league was so popular that its Finals games had to be shown on tape delay. To be fair, there were other factors at play then -- the league was overwhelmed by the perception of white fans that its black players were all on drugs, for one. But the bottom line is the bottom line -- in the most egalitarian 10-year stretch in league history, no one watched on television, and people hated the on-court product.

In the NBA's 60-plus years of existence, seven franchises: Boston, the Lakers, the Bulls, the Spurs, the Philadelphia/Golden State Warriors, the Syracuse/76ers franchise and the Pistons -- have won a combined 53 titles. Read that again: seven of the league's franchises have won more than 80 percent of the league's championships. If you're judging competitiveness by championships won, the NBA has never been competitive.

Personally, I'm fine with that. The NBA is no different from baseball (the Yankees have almost one-fifth of all of baseball's world championships in their storied history), or hockey (the Canadiens have one-fourth of the National Hockey League's titles in the Stanley Cup era) or the NFL, where the Steelers, Cowboys, 49ers and Packers have almost half of the league's Super Bowl titles since 1966.

But maybe the league doesn't literally mean compete for championships. Maybe it is referring to having the opportunity to make the playoffs on a regular basis.

Since the last lockout (1998), though:

• The lower-budget Spurs have made more postseasons (13) than the Lakers (12);
• The Jazz have been in more playoffs (9) than the Knicks (5);
• The Pacers have been in more playoffs (9) than the Bulls (6);
• The Hornets have been in just as many playoffs (8) as the Celtics.

But that's not the point, the league argues. The point is that smaller-revenue teams can't spend the kind of money necessary to build
championship-caliber teams. They have two choices, each bad: go more and more into hock to keep the players they have, or give those players away for pennies on the dollar to the big boys, like Memphis had to do with Pau Gasol, and fall further behind.

Of course, it was the Gasol trade that allowed the Grizzlies to rebuild in three short seasons, to the point where they made the playoffs this season, beat San Antonio in the first round and almost beat Oklahoma City in the second. And OKC has managed to put a pretty good team around Kevin Durant without breaking any banks; to the contrary, the Thunder have structured contracts with Nick Collison and Kendrick Perkins that go down in the years to come, not up, freeing up funds that can be used to extend Durant and Russell Westbrook and Serge Ibaka.

How did Sam Presti do this? Ouija board? Short-selling on the stock market?
He did it the same way R.C. Buford did it in San Antonio, and the way Joe Dumars did it in Detroit when he built a champion in 2004 out of parts other teams didn't care for, and the way Donnie Walsh did it in Indiana for, oh, 20 years, and the way Kevin O'Connor does it in Utah this morning. Draft the right guys. Sign the right guys. Trade for the right guys. And pay the right guys the right amount of money.

"Dance with me here," the commissioner said Thursday. "You're smarter than I am, as a general manager, and you have $45 million of salary. And I'm not so smart, I have $110 (million), but I hire a decent general manager. Over time, do you think you could compete with me?"

Do the big market teams have a financial advantage? Yes. They always have. But states with no income tax have an advantage over states that do. And states near water have an advantage over states that are landlocked. And states with mountains have an advantage over states that are flat, not that there's anything wrong with flat.

It is not easy to build a contending team in a small market. But it is not unknowable. It does not require magic or spending seven years in medical school.

[DPG21920]

BTW, Tony Parker thinks the lockout will end soon:
http://www.sport24.com/basket/pro-a/actualites/je-suis-en-mission-513363

"I think we are really close of an agreement, it will be maybe reached in the next 10 days."

I hope he's right but TP might have been the player furthest removed from these negotiations :lol

[TimmehC]

Bullshit. If Parker thought the lockout would end soon, he wouldn't have signed with Asvel.

[Bruno]

I hope he's right but TP might have been the player furthest removed from these negotiations :lol

Disagree.

Even if he is in France, I'm sure TP knows well the state of CBA negotiations. He is very interested in the business side of basketball and is well connected to other players.

[mavsfan1000]

Fuck the NBPA. Shit they are going to ruin the whole season due to their greed.

[Giuseppe]

I'm holding out hope that they decertify and start over from scratch.

3.5 -1 on the tax is a living nightmare. They must be out of their fuckin' minds to agree to that.

[Birn]

Decertification does nothing for the players. It is the worst option for them. First, they lose the entire season. Second, there's no guarantee their individual anti-trust lawsuits would even be successful. Third, they run the risk of having all NBA player contracts voided permanently. Their best outcome from decertification is winning an anti-trust case and obtaining treble damages. However, that will take years to play out and will be very ugly and risky.

All this talk about decertification is driven primarily by high profile agents who will have no income this season from their NBA clients. This is their way to bill their NBA clients millions of dollars so they can keep their businesses running. Don't forget that agents are business owners too and they need to find different ways to generate income. This is their way to generate income while the lockout continues.

The players are getting played like violins by both the owners and now their own agents. They need to wise up and understand that this is a new era for the NBA and they need to take the best possible deal they can get tomorrow. They will never see 57% ever again. 50/50 of BRI is the best they can do. Each time games are cancelled it becomes a bigger loss for the players. They have ZERO leverage - no NLRB ruling or decertification threats will scare the owners into doing anything. The owners are better prepared and capable to wait it out until they get a deal that is fair for both sides. For too long, it has been too one-sided in the players favor. It's time to level the playing field and create a fair deal for all parties involved.

SA absolutely needs to have a deal as close to 50/50 as possible. If SA can't be profitable then we lose the Spurs to another owner and another city. It's as simple as that. If you love your Spurs you should be hoping that Holt can get a deal that will give him a reasonable chance to earn a profit each season. I'm tickled by people who consistently favor the players in these negotiations. They don't realize that if the players don't allow the owners a chance to make a reasonable profit then the Spurs will not be in SA much longer.

[ElNono]

However, that will take years to play out and will be very ugly and risky.

Did it take years for the NFL?

:lol clueless
:lol capitalist warrior

This is when you get all mad :madrun

[ElNono]

And BTW, even if players ultimately don't decide to decertify, it only makes sense for them to learn about what options they might have, and that includes decertification.

[wildbill2u]

Under decertification the agents and the big name superstars come out best since they can market their wares to the highest bidder at the highest market price.

The rest of the players probably don't fare so well. No long term contracts, no high veterans minimiums, pay scales, etc. because all the money will to to the top players.

I'm one of the folks who think MOST owners would set a limit on their spending without the salary cap and without a requirement to pay a certain amount of money in salaries, they will reduce the players to cut-throat bargaining against each other for the scraps left by the superstars. It's not as though a lot of NBA players have alternate careers as brain surgeons or real-estate tycoons where they can earn millions.

What would evolve would essentially be a league of four-six Harlem Globetrotters with 24 Washington Generals. That sort of basketball --as an exhibition of special talents on one team-- works pretty well for the Globetrotters, but only on a one-night stand basis. I don't think it would be sustainable over the long run for a league with fixed cities owning team franchises.

[Dex]

daldridgetnt David Aldridge
Cohen was praised by both sides for trying to find areas of common ground and agreement, but couldn't move the BRI/luxury tax boulder.
25 minutes ago

daldridgetnt David Aldridge
NBA spokesman says mediator George Cohen will take part in Saturday's session w/union. Cohen did 3 days last month but couldn't broker deal.
30 minutes ago

Looks like this could be a last gasp of hope for seeing basketball this season.

[spurs10]

Looks like this could be a last gasp of hope for seeing basketball this season.
Sure does look like it's do or die. While I was hopeful a week ago, all I've read has me thinking the small market owners and the agents won't allow a compromise. That faction of owners, headed by Michael Jordan, want to put the screws to the players and don't care if there is a season. I'm glad to hear Cohen will be coming back. Maybe he can talk some sense into these hard liners.

[Giuseppe]

The players are finally coming to the realization that they're in a knife fight. They were never prepared for this. It is stunning to see the collective behavior of the owners. They're without conscience. It is a brand new tact for them and to this point has been unbelievably affective. It's absolutely brilliant. They're going in now for the kill with this talk of "really we want 53-47 instead of 50-50." I pray the players turn in the corner like a beaten & trapped animal and lash back with a fury that is equally brand new to both sides.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I do not think it is unreasonable to think that a free market without contract restrictions from the owners would net them a better net than 50% + progressive spending tax would.

Given that reality I would sue the shit out the NBA.

[Bruno]

The o/u for today's meeting with the negotiator is 15 hours. :sleep

[DPG21920]

I don't want to hear any fake reports of progress. Just get a deal done both sides are ok with.

[spurs10]

The o/u for today's meeting with the negotiator is 15 hours. :sleep
Either they're walking in the door willing to make some compromises or it will be more of the same.... I reckon.

[mathbzh]

Under decertification the agents and the big name superstars come out best since they can market their wares to the highest bidder at the highest market price.

The rest of the players probably don't fare so well. No long term contracts, no high veterans minimiums, pay scales, etc. because all the money will to to the top players.

I'm one of the folks who think MOST owners would set a limit on their spending without the salary cap and without a requirement to pay a certain amount of money in salaries, they will reduce the players to cut-throat bargaining against each other for the scraps left by the superstars. It's not as though a lot of NBA players have alternate careers as brain surgeons or real-estate tycoons where they can earn millions.

What would evolve would essentially be a league of four-six Harlem Globetrotters with 24 Washington Generals. That sort of basketball --as an exhibition of special talents on one team-- works pretty well for the Globetrotters, but only on a one-night stand basis. I don't think it would be sustainable over the long run for a league with fixed cities owning team franchises.

This is how it works in European sport (no salary cap, no draft...) and if you look at soccer, the trend is the same that in the NBA (salaries exploded since the 80's). And this is not only true for the Superstars... Any good player in the French league (not exactly a great league) makes more money than Maradona did in Napoli.

In this league, the 4-6 "Harlem Globetrotters" spend their money on "all" the stars in the league.
The "Washington Generals" don't have any player with a max contract. If they are lucky enough to find a rising star (Benzema in Lyon) they sell him to a rich team (real madrid), makes 50 M$ or so in the process and can afford to spend money on "average" players (Gourcuff in Lyon).

[benefactor]

Dish sent me a League Pass letter telling me about how they are going to do League Pass this year. I'm not paying them shit...even if they get things settled. I think I'll keep my money this year.

[Duncan2177]

Chris_Broussard Chris Broussard
NBA labor update: Just told by reliable source that "progress is being made." no details given, but I've been assured of progress.
16 minutes ago

http://twitter.com/intent/user?screen_name=Chris_Broussard

[slick'81]

maybe some positive news will come out of today

[timtonymanu]

I'm just waiting for them to bring up the BRI and then having talks stalled once again.

[benefactor]

Chris_Broussard Chris Broussard
NBA labor update: Just told by reliable source that "progress is being made." no details given, but I've been assured of progress.
16 minutes ago

http://twitter.com/intent/user?screen_name=Chris_Broussard
Whatever. No one gives a fuck about progress anymore. Call me when the ink is dry.

[ElNono]

Jordan moved to 48% :cry :cry = "progress" made

[m>s]

if there were no spending restrictions in NBA like what it is in most european soccer leagues it'd always be the richest teams that come out with biggest honors. as a mavs fan i'd be glad as fuck to see that happening, that N!gga cuban would splash big $ and buy anyone we need/want such as rose, durant etc... and we ain't outcompeted by no one financially. on the other hand owners who're relatively poor would have to sell their 1st teammers and buy young nigs for low prices, and the young nigs will be sold again as soon as they grow mature

[kjhip1]

FWIW...

Article on SI.com spoke of a Charity Game being cancelled tomorrow due to possible deal being made tonight...

[ElNono]

AlexKennedyNBA Alex Kennedy
Sunday's charity game in Indiana was canceled. Organizers say players were "advised to prepare for the NBA and NBPA reaching an agreement."

[ElNono]

20 years ago, NBA star Magic Johnson forever changed the perception of what it means to live with HIV | http://ti.me/tlv0qR

[ElNono]

^^^ oops :lol

[ElNono]

daldridgetnt David Aldridge
Passing the seven-hour mark in talks between the NBA and the NBPA under the direction of mediator George Cohen...

[Nathan89]

if there were no spending restrictions in NBA like what it is in most european soccer leagues it'd always be the richest teams that come out with biggest honors. as a mavs fan i'd be glad as fuck to see that happening, that N!gga cuban would splash big $ and buy anyone we need/want such as rose, durant etc... and we ain't outcompeted by no one financially. on the other hand owners who're relatively poor would have to sell their 1st teammers and buy young nigs for low prices, and the young nigs will be sold again as soon as they grow mature

And I would probably never watch another NBA game ever.

[Giuseppe]

And I would probably never watch another NBA game ever.

"probably"

tee, hee.

[kjhip1]

Twitter: Chris_Broussard

A player who was supposed to play in Sunday's charity game in Indy just told me no one has told him to "prepare for a possible agreement."

[Roger Freemason Jr.]

Twitter: Chris_Broussard

A player who was supposed to play in Sunday's charity game in Indy just told me no one has told him to "prepare for a possible agreement."

Damn, it sucks to be out of the loop, he probably isn't very important.

[Kyle Orton]

Damn, it sucks to be out of the loop, he probably isn't very important.

Lol being out of the loop for personal fitness
Lol thinking your body weight isn't very important to your health

:lmao :lmao 5'11 220lb :lmao

[Roger Freemason Jr.]

hey kyle :)

[baseline bum]

if there were no spending restrictions in NBA like what it is in most european soccer leagues it'd always be the richest teams that come out with biggest honors. as a mavs fan i'd be glad as fuck to see that happening, that N!gga cuban would splash big $ and buy anyone we need/want such as rose, durant etc... and we ain't outcompeted by no one financially. on the other hand owners who're relatively poor would have to sell their 1st teammers and buy young nigs for low prices, and the young nigs will be sold again as soon as they grow mature

As rich as Cuban is, I'm not sure he's outbidding Cablevision.

[Kyle Orton]

Sup brah, ready for a possible season?

[Roger Freemason Jr.]

Would be nice. You know, I've never known what team you rooted for.

[ElNono]

NYSportsSpot KnicksYankees
#NBA fans are really going to be disapointed when both sides come out and refuse to talk to the media

[Trainwreck2100]

NYSportsSpot KnicksYankees
#NBA fans are really going to be disapointed when both sides come out and refuse to talk to the media

disappointed would imply we expected something other than no change after today

[m>s]

5'11 220 lb :lmao

fat rich faggot :lmao

[Kyle Orton]

Would be nice. You know, I've never known what team you rooted for.
I root for dem mavs tbh

Lockout is killing me though...I don't want to resort to fucking hockey..

[ElNono]

daldridgetnt David Aldridge
Heard from John Wall, who was going to play in Indy. He knows nothing about it supposedly being cancelled b/c lockout is supposedly near end

daldridgetnt David Aldridge
Also heard from Wall's rep/mgr, who said Wall is in D.C. tonight and had no intention of playing Indy game; he's shut it down for awhile...

[ElNono]

MrMichaelLee Michael Lee
Just asked someone with knowledge of NBA labor negotiations if sides were almost home on a deal. Response: "Very close"

[ElNono]

iSmellH8RS jcoolitⓙ
Since the NBA season is cancelled 'Basketball Wives' should change the name of the show to 'Talentless Gold Digging Ghetto Hoes'

[Kyle Orton]

How many times can the talks be "close" only to have more delays come up?

[Kyle Orton]

iSmellH8RS jcoolitⓙ
Since the NBA season is cancelled 'Basketball Wives' should change the name of the show to 'Talentless Gold Digging Ghetto Hoes'

:lol

[ElNono]

Holy shit Horry got fat:

http://a.yfrog.com/img877/5994/ky5cu.jpg

[ElNono]

SRcentralCRoat Chris Roat
NBA lockout meetings now at 8 hrs, sources say some progress made, but to what end nobody knows. Hopeful yet skeptical.

[timtonymanu]

No Kidding. He looked like Shaq in the All-Star Celebrity Game last year.

[ElNono]

sn_nba Sporting News NBA
Ray Allen says decertification call was 'purely informative' dlvr.it/ts5M4

[Trainwreck2100]

SRcentralCRoat Chris Roat
NBA lockout meetings now at 8 hrs, sources say some progress made, but to what end nobody knows. Hopeful yet skeptical.

they were just watching the bama/lsu game

[timtonymanu]

MrMichaelLee Michael Lee
Just asked someone with knowledge of NBA labor negotiations if sides were almost home on a deal. Response: "Very close"

Some time now I will expect a tweet saying

Talks broken off. BRI major issue again.

[ElNono]

Chris_Broussard Chris Broussard
Source reiterates that labor Meeting is going very well...

[Kyle Orton]

damn horry, damn!

[slick'81]

well they sure have been at it a while :hat

[ElNono]

I'm going to sleep.. hope to hear better news tomorrow...

For those that are staying up, this is what I've been using to track Twitter:
http://twitter.com/#!/search/nba

[kjhip1]

Twitter: TheChrisPalmer

Mixed signals are coming out of labor meetings in New York. Something's cooking for sure. Just not sure what.

[ElNono]

AlexKennedyNBA Alex Kennedy
Meeting is over. Here we go! Press conferences here: nba.com/home/live1/

[ElNono]

MrMichaelLee Michael Lee
I see now that George Cohen NBA mediation sessions are like Snoop Dogg house parties. They don't stop 'til 6 in the mornin'!

[ElNono]

daldridgetnt David Aldridge
Being summoned to the media room for pressers. Tonight's session, anyway, ending... Be back soon...

[kjhip1]

Thought you were going to sleep ElNono

[ElNono]

AlexKennedyNBA Alex Kennedy
No deal. Let's see what the two sides have to say.

[ElNono]

@KBergCBS Ken Berger
NBA talks are over for the night. "No deal," a source says.

[ElNono]

Thought you were going to sleep ElNono

:lol just heard the meeting ended... I'll be heading there soon enough

[ElNono]

KBergCBS Ken Berger
League officials speaking first in separate press conference room.

KBergCBS Ken Berger
No word yet on whether talks continue tomorrow (i.e. later today). But interesting that Cohen allowing parties to speak.

[kjhip1]

same here...this is the dumbest thing in the world..keep hoping they will say we have a deal, but gut feeling is even if there is another meeting tomorrow, we'll still get same result..I really do think we are headed for a lockout for the whole season..Sux too because have one more run in them...but not if a season is cancelled..#so much for optimism

[kjhip1]

David Stern: We had a long day today...

[kjhip1]

Wojyahoonba:

Stern says NBA adopted 5 of 6 suggestions of compromises by mediator, and would be "amenable" to making deal on that until Wednesday.

[ElNono]

daldridgetnt David Aldridge
BRI band from 49-51, mini MLE (2.5m for two years) for taxpayers, compromise on lux tax payments, league accepts 5 of 6 proposals from Cohen

daldridgetnt David Aldridge
League will hold offer until close of business Wednesday, then go back to 47 percent BRI/flex cap proposal from before..

daldridgetnt David Aldridge
Stern says union attorney rejected proposals from Cohen and league...

[kjhip1]

What does it all mean?

[timtonymanu]

Probably means this is only going to get worse. I don't see the union caving into that compromise.

[ElNono]

Presser on NBATV right now

[ElNono]

If I understood correctly, BRI split band would be:

51/49 if revenues exceed 57% of projections
50/50 if revenues don't exceed 57% of projections
49/51 if revenues don't exceed ??? projections

[stephen jackson]

i dont expect a season.

[Nathan89]

No sign n' trade for tax payers.
Lower mid-level for tax payers.
Increase tax on tax payers.

I like these things.

[ElNono]

"projections" means BRI projected growth... that is, the difference between previous season BRI income vs current season BRI income

[kjhip1]

yeah there is no way the NBAPA takes the deal especially with an ultimatum...Once again it comes down to greedy grown ass men on both sides arguing about money...meanwhile you have those that depended on the jobs that come along with working in the NBA arenas across the nation..they guys make millions and cant iron out a deal...I love my Spurs but this makes me second guess how loyal I'll be to the NBA..

[ElNono]

So, if I understood right:

51/49 if revenues exceed 57% of BRI growth projections
50/50 if revenues don't exceed 57% of BRI growth projections
49/51 if BRI doesn't grow

[ElNono]

Anyways... now it's waiting till Wed... good night

[Ice009]

Why is the wait until Wednesday?

[ElNono]

Why is the wait until Wednesday?

NBA said it would put both this proposal and the 47% proposal on paper, and give the players until Wed to accept the current proposal, otherwise they'll pull it out and the 47% proposal will be the league's official offer.

[Duncan2177]

Players will take this deal I'm sure..they really don't have much of a choice.

[timtonymanu]

If Wednesday is truly the deadline, I just hope they cancel the season if the players don't take it. This whole progress being made BS being changed to no deal the next day is an insult to the fans who really want to watch basketball.

[kjhip1]

If Wednesday is truly the deadline, I just hope they cancel the season if the players don't take it. This whole progress being made BS being changed to no deal the next day is an insult to the fans who really want to watch basketball.

aint that the truth...the crazy thing is that the difference between both sides is what 80-100 million? I know that sounds like alot of money but to the entire NBA owners and NBAPA combined? its a drop in the bucket.. its ashame Fans have to be watching the minutes to all the twitter feeds concerning how the meetings are going instead of watching NBA highlights from tonight's nba action

[ElNono]

Players will take this deal I'm sure..they really don't have much of a choice.

I wouldn't bet the house on it. It certainly is designed to put pressure on the union.
We'll see if they bite.

[Ice009]

NBA said it would put both this proposal and the 47% proposal on paper, and give the players until Wed to accept the current proposal, otherwise they'll pull it out and the 47% proposal will be the league's official offer.

Thanks for explaining that. Who came up with the proposal? The Nba?

[kjhip1]

Thanks for explaining that. Who came up with the proposal? The Nba?

They did but at the Mediator's request...The NBPA according to D. Stern rejected the offers made by both the NBA and the mediator

[kjhip1]

Just watched Derek Fischer's NBAPA conference..not good at all..Clearly seems like players will not accecpt ultimatum..Well, Time to go root for my Cowboys and Tar Heels#Thanks,NBA

[Giuseppe]

I fervently hope the players don't take this deal.

[Nathan89]

I fervently hope the players don't take this deal.

I hope they do.

Tee, Hee