NBA Trade Deadline: 2020-21 Season

[KingKev]

KingKev loves projecting absurdities onto others so he can argue superiority with another empty take.

...our resident “life coach” seems to hold grudges versus adding anything to the conversation. How many times did you use the thesaurus to write that dig? Isn’t that what life coaches do? Use big words to appear intelligent? In my book a life coach is synonymous with the word muppet. I never accused rjv of being happy with that, rather posed “if” he is happy with the scenario I believe his state of thinking is not conducive to our common goal of winning.

[Dejounte]

Just for shits and grins, would anyone be interested in Porzingod? Sounds like Cuban is clearing cap room, and I know the Spurs have been enamored before. The bad blood between SA and the NYK is supposedly because Dolan accused the Spurs of tampering. He’s obviously not a great fit in Dallas, but he’s got a line of 20p/8r/1.5bl shooting 35% from long, in 30 minutes, and he’s still only 25.


LMA and Lyles is an almost perfect match.

Holy shit, felt like he was already 30, not 25.

[KingKev]

Just for shits and grins, would anyone be interested in Porzingod? Sounds like Cuban is clearing cap room, and I know the Spurs have been enamored before. The bad blood between SA and the NYK is supposedly because Dolan accused the Spurs of tampering. He’s obviously not a great fit in Dallas, but he’s got a line of 20p/8r/1.5bl shooting 35% from long, in 30 minutes, and he’s still only 25.

LMA and Lyles is an almost perfect match.

Personally I feel he would be a great fit. Suspect you’d have to replace Lyles with Walker IV or Sammy and a first however. I’m also suspect in the lines of communication between the Mavs and us. Seems kinda faux pas given the rivalry.

[Dejounte]

Austrian - Latvian - Croatian frontcourt rotation

Though Dallas would probably ask a lot.

They'd probably want Poeltl in return.

[spurraider21]

Just for shits and grins, would anyone be interested in Porzingod? Sounds like Cuban is clearing cap room, and I know the Spurs have been enamored before. The bad blood between SA and the NYK is supposedly because Dolan accused the Spurs of tampering. He’s obviously not a great fit in Dallas, but he’s got a line of 20p/8r/1.5bl shooting 35% from long, in 30 minutes, and he’s still only 25.


LMA and Lyles is an almost perfect match.
hard not to love porzingod, i just dont know what the asking price would be and if we could actually make it work. i dont think its just a matter of matching salaries.

[spurraider21]

if samanic ever realized his potential, pairing him with KP at the big positions could be pretty silly

[BacktoBasics]

...our resident “life coach” seems to hold grudges versus adding anything to the conversation. How many times did you use the thesaurus to write that dig? Isn’t that what life coaches do? Use big words to appear intelligent? In my book a life coach is synonymous with the word muppet. I never accused rjv of being happy with that, rather posed “if” he is happy with the scenario I believe his state of thinking is not conducive to our common goal of winning.

I can see you a mile away. You don’t like people “holding a grudge”... or simply pointing out your bullshit? Then stop doing it.

You can just as easily make your point without building strawmen or projecting lies onto people. I’ve seen you do this more than a few times now. If you can’t make an effective argument or point without putting words in people’s mouths then it’s you with the problem.

[Dejounte]

Sounds like it was all bullshit:

https://twitter.com/townbrad/status/1364347111601397763?s=19

[objective]

Let's see if Collins would even want to sign here after that debacle we saw with him and Murray last game.

It was so brief I doubt it would mean anything.

Wade intentionally made a dirty play and broke Rondo's arm but they still teamed up for a bad Bulls team.

[exstatic]

Personally I feel he would be a great fit. Suspect you’d have to replace Lyles with Walker IV or Sammy and a first however. I’m also suspect in the lines of communication between the Mavs and us. Seems kinda faux pas given the rivalry.

Spurs would need to send out more salary than Walker as a second piece to avoid the tax. That trade would probably work from a CBA standpoint, but not for the Spurs. The LMA/Lyles trade matches down to $33,000, proverbial NBA pocket change, and gives DAL the cap room they need this summer. Ending contracts are a commodity. There probably aren’t that many teams that can just absorb Porzingas.

[exstatic]

Austrian - Latvian - Croatian frontcourt rotation

Though Dallas would probably ask a lot.

They'd probably want Poeltl in return.

They want cap room for this summer to chase Collins. That means ending contracts. Poeltl isn’t that.

[Dejounte]

They want cap room for this summer to chase Collins. That means ending contracts. Poeltl isn’t that.

Really odd. Aren't they the same type of player? Is Porzingas really that much worse?

[KingKev]

Spurs would need to send out more salary than Walker as a second piece to avoid the tax. That trade would probably work from a CBA standpoint, but not for the Spurs. The LMA/Lyles trade matches down to $33,000, proverbial NBA pocket change, and gives DAL the cap room they need this summer. Ending contracts are a commodity. There probably aren’t that many teams that can just absorb Porzingas.

I just don’t see them dumping KP for literally nothing other than a chance at a RFA. Suspect they will want some compensation.

[KingKev]

They want cap room for this summer to chase Collins. That means ending contracts. Poeltl isn’t that.

LMA and Poetl actually could work. They need to clear about 10-15mm to offer Collins a max.

[exstatic]

Really odd. Aren't they the same type of player? Is Porzingas really that much worse?

It’s not a player for value exchange. Dallas wants cap room for this summer, and has a player who doesn’t fit their system who’s making about $30M/yr for the next 3 years. They have a bunch of other dead weight contracts, but nothing anyone else would want. They have to find someone to ship them nothing but ending contracts.

[exstatic]

LMA and Poetl actually could work. They need to clear about 10-15mm to offer Collins a max.

That’s assuming they’re willing to renounce Hardaway. The Spurs can offer them a clean solution.

[KingKev]

That’s assuming they’re willing to renounce Hardaway. The Spurs can offer them a clean solution.

Fair point. Tbh i’d be happy with either KP or Collins. They both check a number of boxes for us.

[exstatic]

Fair point. Tbh i’d be happy with either KP or Collins. They both check a number of boxes for us.

KP is the more complete product. He came into the league at 19, and dropped 14/7 as a skinny ass kid.

[Dejounte]

It’s not a player for value exchange. Dallas wants cap room for this summer, and has a player who doesn’t fit their system who’s making about $30M/yr for the next 3 years. They have a bunch of other dead weight contracts, but nothing anyone else would want. They have to find someone to ship them nothing but ending contracts.

What I was asking was why Collins would fit their team better

[KingKev]

KP is the more complete product. He came into the league at 19, and dropped 14/7 as a skinny ass kid.

Agreed, just think you are undervaluing his trade value. Mavs have a few levers they could pull to clear
cap and THJ is not a lock to be resigned and only recently started playing to his current contract. KP will easily fetch more than just a salary dump of LMA and Lyles

[rjv]

Yeah, like if the choice was Collins for $20M or Collins for $30M, I'd obviously pick the former. But if the choice is Collins for $30M or someone else they don't like as much for $20M (or even like $17M), then I can't ride with it. Like they could well either like or be stuck with a guy like Markkannen, and that signing might even be better than Collins if Mark is good. But they shouldn't kid themselves into thinking Markkannen plus a $10M to $13M player is somehow smarter than overpaying for their top guy.

That said, it's not impossible that they just straight up like a guy like Markkannen. I know a RealGMer thought the Spurs would add a first to a Murray-Mark swap.


well. again, i think it will all be rendered moot when collins goes elsewhere but i'm hoping that all collins asks for is less than 30. i've read rumors about how he thinks of himself as a max player. and that's overvaluing.

[Dverde]

well. again, i think it will all be rendered moot when collins goes elsewhere but i'm hoping that all collins asks for is less than 30. i've read rumors about how he thinks of himself as a max player. and that's overvaluing.

Half the league thinks they’re Max players. The front offices decide. Many times they decide wrong. It’s all about whose upside tickles your balls.

[KingKev]

well. again, i think it will all be rendered moot when collins goes elsewhere but i'm hoping that all collins asks for is less than 30. i've read rumors about how he thinks of himself as a max player. and that's overvaluing.

The price that clears the market is likely the max. Whether he is worth that is debatable and only time will tell. If you love him at 25 bucks you should like him at 30.

[The Truth #6]

I'd love for the team to explore options, due diligence in Spurs' corporate speak, involving DD and LA, but if it involves getting back an often injured player like Porzingis with a high price tag, personally, I'd prefer to let our expensive contracts expire and not bring someone in. I believe in our youth even if I don't think think we are close to a championship. Or rather, I'd rather watch our youth develop and see where it goes, while being very clear eyed that we aren't anywhere near winning a championship yet. Put another way, I see Porzingis as a #3 option on a title team, not the #1,, which would be our expectation.

[exstatic]

What I was asking was why Collins would fit their team better

He isn’t a star yet. Porzingas was an AS in NY, and may not appreciate having such a ball dominant player controlling the offense. Collins already has one, even if the don’t get along.

[exstatic]

I'd love for the team to explore options, due diligence in Spurs' corporate speak, involving DD and LA, but if it involves getting back an often injured player like Porzingis with a high price tag, personally, I'd prefer to let our expensive contracts expire and not bring someone in. I believe in our youth even if I don't think think we are close to a championship. Or rather, I'd rather watch our youth develop and see where it goes, while being very clear eyed that we aren't anywhere near winning a championship yet. Put another way, I see Porzingis as a #3 option on a title team, not the #1,, which would be our expectation.

He was only actually injured once, an ACL tear, and Dallas traded for him while he was injured. He missed the end of one season, an entire season, and as a precaution, the beginning of the next.

In times past, he may have been a second or third option, but in today’s game, if you have good floor spacing AND a center that can both post up and shoot league average on 3 pointers, you break defenses. Literally break them.

[BacktoBasics]

He was only actually injured once, an ACL tear, and Dallas traded for him while he was injured. He missed the end of one season, an entire season, and as a precaution, the beginning of the next.

In times past, he may have been a second or third option, but in today’s game, if you have good floor spacing AND a center that can both post up and shoot league average on 3 pointers, you break defenses. Literally break them.

Seems like a moot point when his defense has been as questionable as it’s ever been.

I’ve always got the impression that unless he’s being fed the ball he struggles to find a place on offense. If he can’t fit in and get going then there wouldn’t as much of a benefit as it seems on paper.

[KingKev]

Seems like a moot point when his defense has been as questionable as it’s ever been.

I’ve always got the impression that unless he’s being fed the ball he struggles to find a place on offense. If he can’t fit in and get going then there wouldn’t as much of a benefit as it seems on paper.

Both Colllins and KP need to be paired with a complementary, defensive minded big. 2 way 4/5s have gone the way of the dinosaur outside of AD and maybe Embiid, great to have but hard to find. Finding a big who can stretch the floor and be a top tier scoring option is what this team needs to balance out our roster. The complementary big is an easier role to fill.

[pad300]

Just for shits and grins, would anyone be interested in Porzingod? Sounds like Cuban is clearing cap room, and I know the Spurs have been enamored before. The bad blood between SA and the NYK is supposedly because Dolan accused the Spurs of tampering. He’s obviously not a great fit in Dallas, but he’s got a line of 20p/8r/1.5bl shooting 35% from long, in 30 minutes, and he’s still only 25.


LMA and Lyles is an almost perfect match.

For LMA and Lyles, you take it and run like you stole something ... But I doubt Dallas does it.

[BacktoBasics]

Both Colllins and KP need to be paired with a complementary, defensive minded big. 2 way 4/5s have gone the way of the dinosaur outside of AD and maybe Embiid, great to have but hard to find. Finding a big who can stretch the floor and be a top tier scoring option is what this team needs to balance out our roster. The complementary big is an easier role to fill.

It’s hard to dispute any of your post on theory alone. I assume you view Jakob at the cog that makes it work.

Perhaps that’s a risk worth taking but it would be a huge setback if it didn’t pan out. You’d lose a prospect for sure, maybe even a draft pick too. Plus any financial freedom for the next couple of years. Not to mention that Dallas isn’t looking to move salary. I’m certain if they’re shopping him they want to upgrade not simply rid themselves of a failed experiment.

If I’m the FO for the Mavs I’m thinking that we’re one player away... not looking to move salary and reloading in the off season. Unless the Spurs are willing to invest heavily in the trade I don’t see what would motivate Dallas to trade with us. I don’t see Proz as worth the investment it would take.

[exstatic]

Seems like a moot point when his defense has been as questionable as it’s ever been.

I’ve always got the impression that unless he’s being fed the ball he struggles to find a place on offense. If he can’t fit in and get going then there wouldn’t as much of a benefit as it seems on paper.

I’m not sure he needs to be fed the ball, but he does need to touch it. I think he struggles with a ball dominant player.

[ace3g]

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The Nets are waiving three players -- Noah Vonleh, Iman Shumpert and Andre Roberson -- ahead of deadline to guarantee deals for season, sources tell ESPN.
9:47pm · 23 Feb 2021 (https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1364421789095518209) · Twitter Web App


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Shams Charania ShamsCharania
(https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania) 2m (https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1364422913194090501)
Guard Iman Shumpert and forward Andre Roberson plan to sign 10-day contracts with the Nets when they clear waivers on Friday, sources tell @TheAthletic (https://twitter.com/TheAthletic/) @Stadium (https://twitter.com/Stadium/). Nets maintaining flexibility ahead of guarantee deadline this week.

[Thomas82]

They’re one of many teams that can’t trade first round picks.

They could offer some of their young guys but doubt anyone bites.

Couldn't they make the selection and then trade the player's rights?

[Seventyniner]

Couldn't they make the selection and then trade the player's rights?

Yes, but only on draft night. Teams that technically can't trade their 2021 first-round pick due to the Stepien Rule can do so on the night of the draft by doing just what you said. By selecting the player first, even though it's at the behest of the trade partner, they conform to the Rule, which says a team cannot make a trade that leaves them (or can possibly leave them due to pick protections) without a first-round pick in two future consecutive drafts.

[toki9]

He was only actually injured once, an ACL tear, and Dallas traded for him while he was injured. He missed the end of one season, an entire season, and as a precaution, the beginning of the next.

In times past, he may have been a second or third option, but in today’s game, if you have good floor spacing AND a center that can both post up and shoot league average on 3 pointers, you break defenses. Literally break them.

Didn't he also tear the meniscus on the other knee?

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

He was only actually injured once, an ACL tear, and Dallas traded for him while he was injured. He missed the end of one season, an entire season, and as a precaution, the beginning of the next.

In times past, he may have been a second or third option, but in today’s game, if you have good floor spacing AND a center that can both post up and shoot league average on 3 pointers, you break defenses. Literally break them.

I can see KP's fit in an ideal world but he's not really played very well this season. I've only watched a couple of games but he can't really move well, can't guard on the perimeter and even has difficulties scoring efficiently while playing with a top 3 playmaker who can set him up for easy buckets. Maybe he's finding his rhythm after yet another surgery because he was good in the bubble but who knows.

On top of that he's had ACL tear on one knee, a meniscus tear on the other and a bunch of other back and leg issues. This is scary for a 7'3 dude.

[Thomas82]

Yes, but only on draft night. Teams that technically can't trade their 2021 first-round pick due to the Stepien Rule can do so on the night of the draft by doing just what you said. By selecting the player first, even though it's at the behest of the trade partner, they conform to the Rule, which says a team cannot make a trade that leaves them (or can possibly leave them due to pick protections) without a first-round pick in two future consecutive drafts.

Thanks for the confirmation.

[Kurgan]

Porky is not an appealing trade piece. He's played in less than 60% of all possible games in the first five years of his career. Big men that are injury prone early in their career continue to be injury prone later in their career as well.

[Ice009]

https://twitter.com/JonKrawczynski/status/1364268393721982985

https://media.tenor.com/images/e6812c1fc0a6438e204a84d4bb85796e/tenor.gifhttps://media.tenor.com/images/e6812c1fc0a6438e204a84d4bb85796e/tenor.gifhttps://media.tenor.com/images/e6812c1fc0a6438e204a84d4bb85796e/tenor.gifhttps://media.tenor.com/images/e6812c1fc0a6438e204a84d4bb85796e/tenor.gif


Porky is not an appealing trade piece. He's played in less than 60% of all possible games in the first five years of his career. Big men that are injury prone early in their career continue to be injury prone later in their career as well.

Yeah, good point. Probably best to stay away from him. You just made me think of Greg Oden. There's probably other big men I'm forgetting that were better than him, but I always thought he'd turn it around, however, it never happened as it's much harder for injury prone big men to have a long/great career.

[CGD]

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The Nets are waiving three players -- Noah Vonleh, Iman Shumpert and Andre Roberson -- ahead of deadline to guarantee deals for season, sources tell ESPN.
9:47pm · 23 Feb 2021 (https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1364421789095518209) · Twitter Web App


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Shams Charania ShamsCharania
(https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania) 2m (https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1364422913194090501)
Guard Iman Shumpert and forward Andre Roberson plan to sign 10-day contracts with the Nets when they clear waivers on Friday, sources tell @TheAthletic (https://twitter.com/TheAthletic/) @Stadium (https://twitter.com/Stadium/). Nets maintaining flexibility ahead of guarantee deadline this week.

Vonleh seems like a bargain deal possibility.

[exstatic]

Vonleh seems like a bargain deal possibility.

Bust.

[ragas]

By Danny Leroux (TheAthletic)


San Antonio Spurs

What would selling look like for them?
No team has more veteran talent on expiring contracts, particularly players that the team would consider trading. DeMar DeRozan has continued to impress as a starter but LaMarcus Aldridge has battled injury while Patty Mills and Rudy Gay come off the bench and could want something different this summer, though they absolutely could want to stick around. The Spurs’ future looks brighter thanks to their young players so paying top dollar to that quartet does not make a ton of sense unless they are willing to take short deals. That may open up a window for a trade or two, especially if another team sees how that player can elevate them this season and potentially re-sign in the summer.
There are not too many trade possibilities outside those four because even if the front office has identified which young Spurs are weaker fits with their plans, that sort of a deal typically happens around draft time once other teams know their needs for the next season. Also, San Antonio could easily want all of them to stick around and no one will get a new contract until Lonnie Walker IV in 2022 so there is no rush to make decisions.

Why would they be sellers?
One faint downside of being stronger than expected this season is that it will be hard for the Spurs to add a high draft pick to this young core, so moving veterans who are not a part of their long-term plans would give Brian Wright more opportunities to find a difference-maker. One big way to do so would be moving someone like Mills for a player with a longer contract so the trade partner is both upgrading and saving money. Some of those frameworks have the potential to open up a meaningful return and improve the next great Spurs team.

Why would they reject selling?
There is not a ton of incentive to do so, especially since the veterans with the most trade value are helping the Spurs make the playoffs this season. San Antonio has hit on plenty of late first-round picks in the last few years but moving helpful players and potentially taking on negative-value contracts makes San Antonio worse now and they have a good shot of making the playoffs. It could be a different conversation if someone such as Aldridge makes it clear he is not coming back after this season, but most of their vets have significant salaries so trades will be tougher to execute.

Will they be sellers?
It feels like they should and will listen, but a deal actually happening feels unlikely. DeRozan, Mills and Gay are important parts of the Spurs’ success and feel unlikely to inspire a king’s ransom while Aldridge is dealing with a hip injury and makes $24 million this season. If another team comes calling and makes it worth their while, a deal could happen but the Spurs starting the season strong significantly reduces their incentive since making the playoffs would be a great step.

[rankingtear]

ESPN Insider Bobby Marks


San Antonio Spurs (https://www.espn.com.au/nba/team/_/name/sa/san-antonio-spurs)

What to watch: The Spurs' front office
The optics from the outside suggest that San Antonio will put a for-sale sign on its roster as we get closer to the deadline.

The Spurs have $85 million in expiring contracts between DeMar DeRozan (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/3978/demar-derozan), LaMarcus Aldridge (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/2983/lamarcus-aldridge), Rudy Gay (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/3005/rudy-gay), Patty Mills (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/4004/patty-mills) and Trey Lyles (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/3136196/trey-lyles). Although San Antonio is a possible playoff team, the Spurs are not a contender in the Western Conference.

The "seller mode" philosophy however is filled with flaws.

The Spurs have executed a solid plan of blending young players Dejounte Murray (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/3907497/dejounte-murray), Jakob Poeltl (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/3134908/jakob-poeltl), Derrick White (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/3078576/derrick-white), Keldon Johnson (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/4395723/keldon-johnson) and Lonnie Walker IV (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/4277890/lonnie-walker-iv) with their veterans.

The minutes of the five players have not been compromised at the expense of the veterans. Murray, Johnson and Walker are regular starters (each averaging a minimum of 27 minutes), with White and Poeltl averaging north of 20 minutes off the bench.

DeRozan has managed the same minutes from last year and still performs at an All-Star level, while Mills is in contention for Sixth Man of the Year honors.
As for finances, the $27.7 million and $24 million contracts of DeRozan and Aldridge make finding a match difficult if the Spurs were to explore a trade for either player.
DeRozan has value, but because of his large salary, San Antonio would have to take back $22.2 million in salary.

The option that makes the most sense is for San Antonio to do nothing on the trade front.

Although it is possible that the Spurs could lose each free agent for nothing, there is a high premium placed when it comes to playoff experience for their former draft picks.
Keep in mind also that the Spurs are projected to have at a minimum $50 million in cap space this offseason to reshape their roster.

Front-office deadline history: The last time San Antonio made a trade during the regular season was February 2014, when Austin Daye was acquired for Nando De Colo. Since 2012, San Antonio has made only seven trades overall.

Restrictions/notes


The Spurs are $1 million below the luxury tax and have an open roster spot.


The signing restriction for Jakob Poeltl will get lifted on March 3.


Derrick White has a poison pill restriction in his contract.

[KobesAchilles]

ESPN Insider Bobby Marks
It doesn't make sense to do any trades. Getting the 6th seed would be a win for the Spurs and really we could get Phoenix in the first round. I see the Lakers dipping a lot without Anthony Davis. Lebron can't carry a team by himself anymore and since he traded half the team to get Davis, they are gonna drop in the rankings.

BUT if someone did come along and offer something for LMA or Gay then I would take it.

[CGD]

It really feels that LMA would be the only one moved at this time. I think they like what DDR and Gay provide, and Mills is a fixture.

[mo7888]

It doesn't make sense to do any trades. Getting the 6th seed would be a win for the Spurs and really we could get Phoenix in the first round. I see the Lakers dipping a lot without Anthony Davis. Lebron can't carry a team by himself anymore and since he traded half the team to get Davis, they are gonna drop in the rankings.

BUT if someone did come along and offer something for LMA or Gay then I would take it.

I feel the same way... a trade would be nice if someone is willing to overpay but the status quo isn't a bad option for the rest of the season either..

[exstatic]

I see Rudy as being the most valuable trade piece. First off, I don’t consider DD to be on the block, because you would never get value for him, and he’s a key starter. LMA has fallen off a cliff, and likely won’t bring anything in return.

That leaves Rudy, a stretch shooting big with something left in the tank. He is both replaceable, and can fetch an asset in return.

[DAF86]

I'm sure the Lakers would gladly take Aldridge to replace the corpse of Marc Gasol. I just don't see how we could make a deal work with them. I would love to get Horton and a pick from them though.

[itzsoweezee]

I’d be very surprised if the Spurs move anyone. I fully expect them to miss out on a potential superstar in the excellent upcoming draft as well as miss the playoffs.

[TD 21]

ATL is losing at lineups where Collins play center. The only pure finisher making max money are Gobert and Thompson. I don't think he is a max player, he is a one position player who can't create his own shot. You really can't play him a lot of minutes and optimize your lineups. He is in the same boat as Markannen and Bagley, they need to play some center but they lack rim protection. Can you justify playing your max player 26 min a night. I don't like big man who can't play positive spot center minutes, FO's seems to think the same since both Markannen and Collins failed to secure extensions.

Spurs might just go after value signings like Fournier, Powell when Derozan leaves. Gary Trent is also a restricted free agent i can see them pursuing they liked him before the draft. Duncan Robinson can be value if Miami goes after Oladipo.

Agreed, but these are things that would matter more if the goal were to build a championship team, as opposed to Pacers East.

The names you mentioned will cost significant money anyway and as I and others have said, there's no appreciable difference between $10M.

Those are just lesser players and though you could make the argument for better fit, in the end they'd be at best more or less in the same spot, so why not go for the superior talent? Some ideal player/scenario isn't going to fall into their lap.

[CGD]

I see Rudy as being the most valuable trade piece. First off, I don’t consider DD to be on the block, because you would never get value for him, and he’s a key starter. LMA has fallen off a cliff, and likely won’t bring anything in return.

That leaves Rudy, a stretch shooting big with something left in the tank. He is both replaceable, and can fetch an asset in return.

I agree with this. Only caveat would be if LMA gets healthy ASAP while showing he can shoot the 3 ball reliably along the way.

[Chinook]

Mills is pretty easily the most valuable trade piece of the vets. I think Gay has slightly positive value, but he's more like buoyant filler than he is an actual asset.

[exstatic]

Mills is pretty easily the most valuable trade piece of the vets. I think Gay has slightly positive value, but he's more like buoyant filler than he is an actual asset.

I’m sure there are like 20 guys like Patty, smalls who run around and chuck from long range, available, and fewer stretch bigs. Supply and demand.

[cd021]

I still think Boston could be interested in Mills and Gay with the TE. They aren't getting back a star with it but would definitely help them improve their bench, which has been an issue. Something like Langford, Ojeleye, and their 2021 first--which is looking good right now but would obviously be lottery protected.

[KingKev]

Would love to see this go down:

ORL: Rudy Gay, Walker IV, Sammy
SAS: AG, Mo Bamba

AG provides a replacement for LMA and gives defensive versatility at the 3/4 and someone whk can guard the LBJ, PG, Kawhi, Durants of the league. Mo Bamba gets a change of scenery as a project and backup 5. He has the physical attributes to become a defensive anchor and has shown flashes of an offensive touch. This helps Orlando look to the future with two prospects who better fit their roster.

[Dejounte]

Would love to see this go down:

ORL: Rudy Gay, Walker IV, Sammy
SAS: AG, Mo Bamba

AG provides a replacement for LMA and gives defensive versatility at the 3/4 and someone whk can guard the LBJ, PG, Kawhi, Durants of the league. Mo Bamba gets a change of scenery as a project and backup 5. He has the physical attributes to become a defensive anchor and has shown flashes of an offensive touch. This helps Orlando look to the future with two prospects who better fit their roster.

Without their first, hell no

[Leetonidas]

I still think Boston could be interested in Mills and Gay with the TE. They aren't getting back a star with it but would definitely help them improve their bench, which has been an issue. Something like Langford, Ojeleye, and their 2021 first--which is looking good right now but would obviously be lottery protected.

TPE cannot be combined with other players iirc. so it would be a straight salary dumb i believe and for an expiring that seems pointless

[KingKev]

Without their first, hell no

A first would make this a no brainer for us but doubt they would given Rudy is likely gone.

[Thomas82]

I’d be very surprised if the Spurs move anyone. I fully expect them to miss out on a potential superstar in the excellent upcoming draft as well as miss the playoffs.

That's what seems the most likely to happen.

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/JeffGSpursZone/status/1365412224932667394?s=19

Big yikes

Then I recall this:


https://youtu.be/Uh0F9sRkcWg

Pushing a woman. Fuck this guy.

[cd021]

TPE cannot be combined with other players iirc. so it would be a straight salary dumb i believe and for an expiring that seems pointless
Your right, they can't. Even though Both Mills and Gay technically fit in the exception, they're hard-capped so it would have to be either Mills or Gay.

[Chinook]

I still think Boston could be interested in Mills and Gay with the TE. They aren't getting back a star with it but would definitely help them improve their bench, which has been an issue. Something like Langford, Ojeleye, and their 2021 first--which is looking good right now but would obviously be lottery protected.


TPE cannot be combined with other players iirc. so it would be a straight salary dumb i believe and for an expiring that seems pointless


Your right, they can't. Even though Both Mills and Gay technically fit in the exception, they're hard-capped so it would have to be either Mills or Gay.

Just to clarify: The above trade is legal. The rule about combining a TE with players is about aggregating salary. So if Langford and Ojeleye were needed to give Boston matching salary, then it wouldn't work. But every team is allowed to structure trades like they want, and in this case, Boston would be making three trades:

Mills to Boston with the TE absorbing the salary

Langford and Ojeleye to SA, with the Mills TE absorbing the salary (so Boston would get two new TEs)

Gay to Boston, with the TE absorbing the salary

I just spitballing here. I don't know exactly how much salary the team needs to send out. There's a rule that every trade has to include a real asset, so the first-rounder might have to be part of the trade, and a dummy second might also have to be part. Anyway, from SA's perspective, they can just do the straight trade, as far as I know again, I don't know about the rule with the dummy-second. I guess Boston could just add the rights to some rando to make everything work in the worst case. But regardless, the Spurs would create two TEs as a result of the trade as opposed to trading for Boston's TE. I know a lot of folks understand that, but I see a lot consider the TE an asset that gets moved, and that's not how it works.

EDIT: So reading over the CBA FAQ (http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q87).

It looks like it's fine to trade a player "for nothing" so long as it's part of a bigger trade that's completed immediately. So there's no there's no need to be clever with a dummy second or cash. The FAQ also doesn't say that teams can't trade away players in the same deal as they use the TE to acquire them. If that's the case, then that second trade can be combined with the first, where the Celtics trade for Mills and trade away their guys with SA just getting their smaller TE while Boston gets nothing.

[Seventyniner]

I thought Gay and Mills could both be absorbed into the same TPE if it's big enough. But I think it's just barely too small: the TPE is $27M and Gay/Mills make $28M combined.

Boston being only $19M under the apron means they would have to send out $8-9M in salary anyway if they want to use the full $27M of the TPE. I think Tristan Thompson (owed a bit more than $9M this season and next) would be a plausible candidate to move for Aldridge, and maybe even for Gay. Boston would have to include an asset to compensate the Spurs for giving up $9M of their 2021 cap space.

Aldridge's 15% trade kicker might even push his salary above the amount of Boston's TPE, which would scuttle any potential deal.

Please correct me if I'm wrong here, this is my understanding but I could be wrong on one or more points.

[The Truth #6]

I thought Gay and Mills could both be absorbed into the same TPE if it's big enough. But I think it's just barely too small: the TPE is $27M and Gay/Mills make $28M combined.

Boston being only $19M under the apron means they would have to send out $8-9M in salary anyway if they want to use the full $27M of the TPE. I think Tristan Thompson (owed a bit more than $9M this season and next) would be a plausible candidate to move for Aldridge, and maybe even for Gay. Boston would have to include an asset to compensate the Spurs for giving up $9M of their 2021 cap space.

Aldridge's 15% trade kicker might even push his salary above the amount of Boston's TPE, which would scuttle any potential deal.

Please correct me if I'm wrong here, this is my understanding but I could be wrong on one or more points.

15% trade kicker? Yeah, he’s not going anywhere until after this season.

[cd021]

15% trade kicker? Yeah, he’s not going anywhere until after this season.



He can waive it, but only if it makes sense to him to do so.

Still think him being brought out is looking increasingly possible, if Jakob continues to start.

[BackHome]

Funny I was just looking at records and I saw Boston's and I was thinking they going to have to make some moves to get there team in the hunt again or Ainge is going to be in trouble.

[exstatic]

Funny I was just looking at records and I saw Boston's and I was thinking they going to have to make some moves to get there team in the hunt again or Ainge is going to be in trouble.

He should already be in deep shit. With the wad of high draft picks they’ve had, they should have probably rang, or at the very least made one Finals.

[TD 21]

Lots of bad luck, losing the amount of talent they did outright, without the cap space to bring in suitable replacements: Irving, Horford, Rozier (granted, turned into Walker), Morris Sr., Hayward (supposedly could have turned into Turner/McDermott).

Outside of nailing Brown/Tatum (which were not viewed as consensus at the time), they've struggled with picks thereafter. It didn't help that some of the teams who's picks they owed turned out better than expected.

Scumbag was the one superstar/star that was theirs to be had, but even then, I can't fault them for not wanting to trade away Brown for one year of that puke, especially considering the amount of talent they had that season (even though it was obvious chemistry would and did derail them).



Would love to see this go down:

ORL: Rudy Gay, Walker IV, Sammy
SAS: AG, Mo Bamba

AG provides a replacement for LMA and gives defensive versatility at the 3/4 and someone whk can guard the LBJ, PG, Kawhi, Durants of the league. Mo Bamba gets a change of scenery as a project and backup 5. He has the physical attributes to become a defensive anchor and has shown flashes of an offensive touch. This helps Orlando look to the future with two prospects who better fit their roster.

Considering it's a lost season and they're loaded with big wings, Gay is pointless for the Magic and there's no chance projects Walker IV and Samanic have enough value to make up the difference.

DeRozan, Walker IV, Eubanks for Gordon, Bamba, Ennis III and Clark, could work contingent on DeRozan agreeing to an extension (which probably isn't happening unless the Raptors signal they're not interested in a reunion).

On his own, it's doubtful Walker IV has much value at this point, but he's a nice secondary piece to a package and they'd be wise to get out ahead since he's unlikely to receive an extension. Fill his roster spot with Khyri Thomas.

[exstatic]

He can waive it, but only if it makes sense to him to do so.

Still think him being brought out is looking increasingly possible, if Jakob continues to start.

The player usually has to take a bit of a haircut to get bought out, or, he can waive the kicker and receive his full salary. It’s a pisser, because his kicker salary would be 27,600,000, and the Boston TE is 27,500,000. There’s no way to finesse a TE. The Spurs wouldn’t send him to some shit hole. Teams inquiring would at least be in the playoff hunt, and possibly in the title hunt.

[cd021]

The player usually has to take a bit of a haircut to get bought out, or, he can waive the kicker and receive his full salary. It’s a pisser, because his kicker salary would be 27,600,000, and the Boston TE is 27,500,000. There’s no way to finesse a TE. The Spurs wouldn’t send him to some shit hole. Teams inquiring would at least be in the playoff hunt, and possibly in the title hunt.

At this point (this point meaning around April 1st, shortly after the trade deadline), I'm not sure how much of a haircut it would be. They may just waive him and he'd get his full salary plus the prorated-vet min from a playoff team.

I think that he'd probably be amenable to waiving his kicker if the Spurs can find a trade for him that puts him in a good situation.

Getting a 15% bonus as a parting gift is nice for Aldridge but if he doesn't waive it then it makes a trade even harder. If he doesn't get traded then he'd likely be brought out so so he wouldn't likely get it anyways.

I think we agree that he probably isn't going to be happy coming off the bench so it seems almost inevitable that there's going to be some type of break-up. Obviously, a trade would be better for the Spurs while a buyout would probably help them too. Then again, the Spurs front office rep would likely take another hit because they didn't move him earlier.

[duncan2k5]

If we don't trade derozan now, we will regret it... U don't neglect to trade him at the age he is in based on him playing well vs some lottery teams or on hopes that he will help us win a ring... In a few years his game will be even more antiquated and his contract will be untradeable and we will have another version of LMA that we wished we traded when we could... The objective is to win, or to gain assets that can be used to build towards winning... Derozan has shown us who he is... He isn't going to magically turn into a winner going on age 32... Sell high

[rankingtear]

If we don't trade derozan now, we will regret it... U don't neglect to trade him at the age he is in based on him playing well vs some lottery teams or on hopes that he will help us win a ring... In a few years his game will be even more antiquated and his contract will be untradeable and we will have another version of LMA that we wished we traded when we could... The objective is to win, or to gain assets that can be used to build towards winning... Derozan has shown us who he is... He isn't going to magically turn into a winner going on age 32... Sell high

Blake Griffin + Saddiq Bey for Derozan.

[cd021]

Blake Griffin + Saddiq Bey for Derozan.

Nah. Griffin eats up $40 million of the Spurs ~$48 million in cap. Detroit will probably either buy him out or waive him and take the hit rather than give up multiple assets to off load him.

[cd021]

Posted in the LMA and DeRozan trade thread but relevant here:


According to Zach Lowe (by way of Bobby Marks from ESPN) on the BS Podcast the Heat actually can trade a future first if they change their pick protection.


Think its this one:


2023 — Owe first-rounder (lottery protected through 2025, unprotected in 2026) to the Oklahoma City Thunder


If Miami misses the playoffs in 2023 then that pick doesn't convey, and then they keep the pick. If they make the playoffs then that pick goes to OKC.


If true, then Miami can change the pick protection in a trade with the Spurs in which their 2023 1st would convey to the Spurs in a potential trade if the Heat misses the playoffs.


Maybe a package including Iggy, Olynyk, Achiuwa and a 1st* for DDR and Eubanks.


(* could be 1-5 and 16-30 protected in 2023, 2024, and 2025 otherwise it becomes 2 future seconds)

Spurs could end up with a pick 6-15 in 2023, 2024, or 2025 in a hypothetical trade if that pick conveys.

[rankingtear]

Nah. Griffin eats up $40 million of the Spurs ~$48 million in cap. Detroit will probably either buy him out or waive him and take the hit rather than give up multiple assets to off load him.

Would you do it for Griffin + lottery protected first?

[ginobilized]

The way this Spurs team is gelling right now, it's hard to imagine a trade.
DDR is integral to the success of the team and the development of the young guns. If LMA accepts his role, why make any trades?
They might be able to hold onto a top spot and forego the play-in. Their depth is looking like a huge advantage going forward.

[rankingtear]

Posted in the LMA and DeRozan trade thread but relevant here:


According to Zach Lowe (by way of Bobby Marks from ESPN) on the BS Podcast the Heat actually can trade a future first if they change their pick protection.


Think its this one:


2023 — Owe first-rounder (lottery protected through 2025, unprotected in 2026) to the Oklahoma City Thunder


If Miami misses the playoffs in 2023 then that pick doesn't convey, and then they keep the pick. If they make the playoffs then that pick goes to OKC.


If true, then Miami can change the pick protection in a trade with the Spurs in which their 2023 1st would convey to the Spurs in a potential trade if the Heat misses the playoffs.


Maybe a package including Iggy, Olynyk, Achiuwa and a 1st* for DDR and Eubanks.


(* could be 1-5 and 16-30 protected in 2023, 2024, and 2025 otherwise it becomes 2 future seconds)

Spurs could end up with a pick 6-15 in 2023, 2024, or 2025 in a hypothetical trade if that pick conveys.

Don't know if that works , but maybe he was referring to something like what MIL did, they paid i think a second rounder to CLE to make the pick unprotected so they can trade their future picks.

[cd021]

Just to clarify: The above trade is legal. The rule about combining a TE with players is about aggregating salary. So if Langford and Ojeleye were needed to give Boston matching salary, then it wouldn't work. But every team is allowed to structure trades like they want, and in this case, Boston would be making three trades:

Mills to Boston with the TE absorbing the salary

Langford and Ojeleye to SA, with the Mills TE absorbing the salary (so Boston would get two new TEs)

Gay to Boston, with the TE absorbing the salary

I just spitballing here. I don't know exactly how much salary the team needs to send out. There's a rule that every trade has to include a real asset, so the first-rounder might have to be part of the trade, and a dummy second might also have to be part. Anyway, from SA's perspective, they can just do the straight trade, as far as I know again, I don't know about the rule with the dummy-second. I guess Boston could just add the rights to some rando to make everything work in the worst case. But regardless, the Spurs would create two TEs as a result of the trade as opposed to trading for Boston's TE. I know a lot of folks understand that, but I see a lot consider the TE an asset that gets moved, and that's not how it works.

EDIT: So reading over the CBA FAQ (http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q87).

It looks like it's fine to trade a player "for nothing" so long as it's part of a bigger trade that's completed immediately. So there's no there's no need to be clever with a dummy second or cash. The FAQ also doesn't say that teams can't trade away players in the same deal as they use the TE to acquire them. If that's the case, then that second trade can be combined with the first, where the Celtics trade for Mills and trade away their guys with SA just getting their smaller TE while Boston gets nothing.

So Langford, Ojeleye, a 2021 first for Mills and Gay is technically possible without breaking it up into smaller trades?

I though players could be combined with TE's then Leetonidas (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=1376) said otherwise and I checked it out and I found this:


Trade exceptions cannot be combined and the Celtics can only absorb a player whose salary is equal to or lower than the individual exception. The exception also cannot be combined with a player's salary to take on a bigger contract. Boston can, however, use smaller chunks of each exception to sign multiple players and can send out additional players as part of any deal.


An example: The Celtics cannot combine their three exceptions and a player salary to make a trade for, say, Paul George’s $35.5 million salary. Boston could, however, trade for Denver’s Gary Harris and absorb his $19.6 million salary with the trade exception without having to otherwise match salaries.

https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/celtics/what-trade-exception-and-how-can-it-help-celtics

[cd021]

Would you do it for Griffin + lottery protected first?
I believe their firsts and seconds are pretty much tied up going forward. They have their own this year but they aren't trading a possible top 5 pick to move on from Blake.

If they did then, Blake, Doumboya, a lottery pick, and possibly even another asset would probably be the price for Detroit to save $40 million in salary next season.

Still think Blake gets bough out though, with him taking a hair cut on his 2021-2022 salary.

[cd021]

Don't know if that works , but maybe he was referring to something like what MIL did, they paid i think a second rounder to CLE to make the pick unprotected so they can trade their future picks.

Maybe. I'm not familiar with how pick protections can be changed after the fact but I'm pretty sure that Miami altering the pick protections in my scenario is valid. If they miss the playoffs in 2023, then that pick is there's, otherwise it conveys to OKC. If they keep it then the same situation applies for 2024 and 2025. In 2026, if that pick still hasn't conveyed, then it would become unprotected and OKC gets that first no matter what.

Miami should be able to make a trade and double protect a 1st in 2023, 2024, or 2025, where they keep the pick if the pick if its 1-5 but conveys to a team like the Spurs if it falls in between 6-15, and OKC if it falls between 16-30.

If Miami's pick falls between 1-5 they keep the pick and the protections get pushed to 2024, and then 2025 with the Spurs and Thunder still having claims to that pick.

[rankingtear]

Maybe. I'm not familiar with how pick protections can be changed after the fact but I'm pretty sure that Miami altering the pick protections in my scenario is valid. If they miss the playoffs in 2023, then that pick is there's, otherwise it conveys to OKC. If they keep it then the same situation applies for 2024 and 2025. In 2026, if that pick still hasn't conveyed, then it would become unprotected and OKC gets that first no matter what.

Miami should be able to make a trade and double protect a 1st in 2023, 2024, or 2025, where they keep the pick if the pick if its 1-5 but conveys to a team like the Spurs if it falls in between 6-15, and OKC if it falls between 16-30.

If Miami's pick falls between 1-5 they keep the pick and the protections get pushed to 2024, and then 2025 with the Spurs and Thunder still having claims to that pick.

Then if it went to the spurs in 2023 , the stepien rule triggers in 2024. They have a protected pick that doesn't exist or that is illegal to convey.

[exstatic]

Would you do it for Griffin + lottery protected first?

To pay the remaining roughly $60M for this year and next, they’re going to have to send more than a lottery protected first. The GS trade that didn’t happen, for instance, was the #2 overall pick to eat about $60M in salary, in the form of Wiggins contract, with LMAs contract as ballast. As an example, we sent the #30 pick with RJ to GS to eat like $12M, and people thought we got over on them.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

I think we need a sticky message in each trade thread that half the NBA can’t deal first round picks. This includes Detroit, Miami, Portland and others.

[KingKev]

I think we need a sticky message in each trade thread that half the NBA can’t deal first round picks. This includes Detroit, Miami, Portland and others.

And another one reminding them LMA isn’t a 30 year old all star worth multiple first round picks.

[cjw]

To pay the remaining roughly $60M for this year and next, they’re going to have to send more than a lottery protected first. The GS trade that didn’t happen, for instance, was the #2 overall pick to eat about $60M in salary, in the form of Wiggins contract, with LMAs contract as ballast. As an example, we sent the #30 pick with RJ to GS to eat like $12M, and people thought we got over on them.

Thank you. Nobody is trading for Griffin and only getting back a lottery-protected first rounder (and the Pistons can’t trade it anyway). Spurs especially aren’t destroying all offseason flexibility for a first rounder that won’t convey.

[Chinook]

So Langford, Ojeleye, a 2021 first for Mills and Gay is technically possible without breaking it up into smaller trades?

I though players could be combined with TE's then Leetonidas (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=1376) said otherwise and I checked it out and I found this:

https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/celtics/what-trade-exception-and-how-can-it-help-celtics


So to clarify: You can't trade a $10-Million TE and an $8-Million player to get a $15-Million player. But you can trade the TE and player to get an $10-Million player and a new $8-Million TE. If Boston needs the salary to give them enough outgoing salary to match Gay and Mills, then no, they can't do it. If Boston just needs to trade those players to shed the required salary to stay under the hard cap, then they can. What I said was going off the assumption that the latter scenario was what was being discussed. I know someone mentioned that Boston can't actually fit Mills and Gay into their TE, and if that's true, then yeah, no dice. But it's not even close if that's the case, since BOS can only use a net of like $20 Million or whatever in order to stay under the apron in the first place.

[Leetonidas]

Thanks for clarification, the rules around the TPE always confuse me :lol

[tbdog]

I like our team. I wouldn't complain if we did nothing. But I wouldn't mind securing a future 4 that's ready now.

[Mal]

Last time I checked Spurs are on top of division, why are there trades for protected picks or buyouts talked ?

[Teamduncan21]

And another one reminding them LMA isn’t a 30 year old all star worth multiple first round picks.

While we are at it. Remind everyone we can't trade derozan for gianni's. We just can't.

[exstatic]

So to clarify: You can't trade a $10-Million TE and an $8-Million player to get a $15-Million player. But you can trade the TE and player to get an $10-Million player and a new $8-Million TE. If Boston needs the salary to give them enough outgoing salary to match Gay and Mills, then no, they can't do it. If Boston just needs to trade those players to shed the required salary to stay under the hard cap, then they can. What I said was going off the assumption that the latter scenario was what was being discussed. I know someone mentioned that Boston can't actually fit Mills and Gay into their TE, and if that's true, then yeah, no dice. But it's not even close if that's the case, since BOS can only use a net of like $20 Million or whatever in order to stay under the apron in the first place.

They can fit both Gay and Mills into their 27,500,000 TE. Gay makes a flat 14,000,000 and Mills makes 13,285,714.

[cd021]

So to clarify: You can't trade a $10-Million TE and an $8-Million player to get a $15-Million player. But you can trade the TE and player to get an $10-Million player and a new $8-Million TE. If Boston needs the salary to give them enough outgoing salary to match Gay and Mills, then no, they can't do it. If Boston just needs to trade those players to shed the required salary to stay under the hard cap, then they can. What I said was going off the assumption that the latter scenario was what was being discussed. I know someone mentioned that Boston can't actually fit Mills and Gay into their TE, and if that's true, then yeah, no dice. But it's not even close if that's the case, since BOS can only use a net of like $20 Million or whatever in order to stay under the apron in the first place.


Thanks for clarification, the rules around the TPE always confuse me :lol

I guess that makes sense, though TE's in general are still kinda confusing to me tbh.

[cd021]

Then if it went to the spurs in 2023 , the stepien rule triggers in 2024. They have a protected pick that doesn't exist or that is illegal to convey.
You're right. I forgot about the rule in regards to the protections. I think Miami could still use the double protections for 2023 and 2025, so if the pick conveys to the Thunder or Spurs--probably the Thunder-- then it would comply with the Stepien rule in 2024, meaning Miami would keep their pick that year.

In 2025, The Spurs, or Thunder, would still have claim to that pick but if the pick doesn't fall in between 6-15 that year then the Spurs wouldn't receive a first from Miami at all.

[Chinook]

I guess that makes sense, though TE's in general are still kinda confusing to me tbh.

I think I linked the relevant section of the CBA FAQ somewhere back. Basically, even though the trade would be organized as three trades for Boston and two for SA, they would all get handled with the same trade call, and the rules on compensation would be satisfied even if not all trades had something going to both sides. Like normally, Boston couldn't trade for Gay or Mills using the TE and get nothing back. A trade like that by itself would get rejected. But if simultaneously with that are trades from SA's POV where they are trading Gay/Mills for whatever players, and Boston also has parallel trades where they are moving those players to the Spurs, then it'll all even out in the wash. Those 2/3 trades will get reported as one deal, and Boston and SA would each get two TEs from the transaction.

[cd021]

I think I linked the relevant section of the CBA FAQ somewhere back. Basically, even though the trade would be organized as three trades for Boston and two for SA, they would all get handled with the same trade call, and the rules on compensation would be satisfied even if not all trades had something going to both sides. Like normally, Boston couldn't trade for Gay or Mills using the TE and get nothing back. A trade like that by itself would get rejected. But if simultaneously with that are trades from SA's POV where they are trading Gay/Mills for whatever players, and Boston also has parallel trades where they are moving those players to the Spurs, then it'll all even out in the wash. Those 2/3 trades will get reported as one deal, and Boston and SA would each get two TEs from the transaction.
:tu

[Chinook]

Folks in this thread have basically been looking at the Spurs as sellers, but would anyone be okay with the team including this year's first with some expirings looking to buy something? Back when it looked like the Spurs were going to pick in the lottery again, it didn't make sense to trade the pick. But honestly, I'm not sure how badly the team needs a guy picked in the 20s given the youth on the squad already. I don't see them as one reasonable piece from a title or anything. But it might be possible to get a long-term fit with the young guys and then use subsequent off-seasons or trades to try to take more steps.

[Dejounte]

Folks in this thread have basically been looking at the Spurs as sellers, but would anyone be okay with the team including this year's first with some expirings looking to buy something? Back when it looked like the Spurs were going to pick in the lottery again, it didn't make sense to trade the pick. But honestly, I'm not sure how badly the team needs a guy picked in the 20s given the youth on the squad already. I don't see them as one reasonable piece from a title or anything. But it might be possible to get a long-term fit with the young guys and then use subsequent off-seasons or trades to try to take more steps.

Agreed. The Spurs need to find reliable, solid performers who won't outplay their contract and bid themselves out of the Spurs budget when their contract is up. If the Spurs are all in on their current core, this is what needs to happen.

[Robz4000]

Folks in this thread have basically been looking at the Spurs as sellers, but would anyone be okay with the team including this year's first with some expirings looking to buy something? Back when it looked like the Spurs were going to pick in the lottery again, it didn't make sense to trade the pick. But honestly, I'm not sure how badly the team needs a guy picked in the 20s given the youth on the squad already. I don't see them as one reasonable piece from a title or anything. But it might be possible to get a long-term fit with the young guys and then use subsequent off-seasons or trades to try to take more steps.

This draft is pretty deep, and it still isn't a forgone conclusion they make the playoffs with the schedule they have in the second half and how so many teams are jumbled together.

[Chinook]

This draft is pretty deep, and it still isn't a forgone conclusion they make the playoffs with the schedule they have in the second half and how so many teams are jumbled together.

But they can protect their pick to avoid that downside. I'm thinking about it as what is best for the 21/22 Spurs. The team could end up keeping DeRozan and not really having the space to sign a real difference-maker. I'm wondering if getting a vet who makes about as much as Gay makes now but is locked in for a bit longer could take the Spurs from legit playoff competitor to solid playoff team that's a move away from being a dark horse contender.

[KobesAchilles]

Folks in this thread have basically been looking at the Spurs as sellers, but would anyone be okay with the team including this year's first with some expirings looking to buy something? Back when it looked like the Spurs were going to pick in the lottery again, it didn't make sense to trade the pick. But honestly, I'm not sure how badly the team needs a guy picked in the 20s given the youth on the squad already. I don't see them as one reasonable piece from a title or anything. But it might be possible to get a long-term fit with the young guys and then use subsequent off-seasons or trades to try to take more steps.
Pipe dream but I would love TJ Warren from the Pacers. I wouldn't mind giving a pick and a player for him. Though I'm not sure if you can trade for an injured player.

[Robz4000]

But they can protect their pick to avoid that downside. I'm thinking about it as what is best for the 21/22 Spurs. The team could end up keeping DeRozan and not really having the space to sign a real difference-maker. I'm wondering if getting a vet who makes about as much as Gay makes now but is locked in for a bit longer could take the Spurs from legit playoff competitor to solid playoff team that's a move away from being a dark horse contender.

Eh, I hope they let him walk or St&T him and just role with what they got next season. I don't see a legit difference maker on the market that would actually come to the Spurs.

[TD 21]

Folks in this thread have basically been looking at the Spurs as sellers, but would anyone be okay with the team including this year's first with some expirings looking to buy something? Back when it looked like the Spurs were going to pick in the lottery again, it didn't make sense to trade the pick. But honestly, I'm not sure how badly the team needs a guy picked in the 20s given the youth on the squad already. I don't see them as one reasonable piece from a title or anything. But it might be possible to get a long-term fit with the young guys and then use subsequent off-seasons or trades to try to take more steps.

That's an option they should be exploring and the obvious target is (again) Collins. The Hawks will probably match any offer sheet (maybe a max dissuades them), so . . .

To Hawks: Spurs top 10 protected '21 1st, Ojeleye
To Celtics: Gay
To Spurs: Collins

This would probably increase the chances of a Aldridge trade/buyout . . .

Starters: Collins, DeRozan, Poeltl, White, Murray

Rotation: Mills, Johnson, Walker IV, Vassell, Lyles

[Seventyniner]

But they can protect their pick to avoid that downside. I'm thinking about it as what is best for the 21/22 Spurs. The team could end up keeping DeRozan and not really having the space to sign a real difference-maker. I'm wondering if getting a vet who makes about as much as Gay makes now but is locked in for a bit longer could take the Spurs from legit playoff competitor to solid playoff team that's a move away from being a dark horse contender.

Do you have a specific target in mind? The 2021 free agent class isn't looking like a great one at the moment, so using what would have been the 2021 cap space on DeRozan and a player already under contract would be just fine with me, depending on who it is of course.

[BacktoBasics]

That's an option they should be exploring and the obvious target is (again) Collins. The Hawks will probably match any offer sheet (maybe a max dissuades them), so . . .

To Hawks: Spurs top 10 protected '21 1st, Ojeleye
To Celtics: Gay
To Spurs: Collins

This would probably increase the chances of a Aldridge trade/buyout . . .

Starters: Collins, DeRozan, Poeltl, White, Murray

Rotation: Mills, Johnson, Walker IV, Vassell, Lyles

If I’m the Hawks I see Collins having way more value than that.

On one hand some here view him as a near max or max player then on the other hand think he can be had for a protected 1st and mid level prospect.

Those two perspectives don’t add up.

[NASpurs]

After seeing the 2021 NBA fee agent class and looking through our needs by positions, all I wanna say is welcome back Demar! LMA, Gay and Patty are expendable.

[TD 21]

If I’m the Hawks I see Collins having way more value than that.

On one hand some here view him as a near max or max player then on the other hand think he can be had for a protected 1st and mid level prospect.

Those two perspectives don’t add up.

They do add up.

The Hawks have already tipped their hand that they're not interested in paying him anywhere near the max. Getting a late lottery - mid round 1st, in a supposedly deep draft and a flyer on a youngish big wing, who's shot the 3 well this season, is solid compensation for avoiding going down a road they'd clearly prefer to not go down (matching an offer sheet at a number they're uncomfortable with for asset retention purposes, then both sides carrying on a charade until they can trade him).

His max is the smallest of the bunch at 25% of the cap. He's not worth it in a vacuum, but that's not how these things work.

[mo7888]

Folks in this thread have basically been looking at the Spurs as sellers, but would anyone be okay with the team including this year's first with some expirings looking to buy something? Back when it looked like the Spurs were going to pick in the lottery again, it didn't make sense to trade the pick. But honestly, I'm not sure how badly the team needs a guy picked in the 20s given the youth on the squad already. I don't see them as one reasonable piece from a title or anything. But it might be possible to get a long-term fit with the young guys and then use subsequent off-seasons or trades to try to take more steps.

I'm all for buying. I've been putting my thoughts out there about trying to acquire Beal over the summer but, I'd be in favor of buying now if we could get someone who isn't going to be a FA this offseason. I don't have any idea who might be available but if someone like Grant (Detroit) became available (not necessarily him but a good player on a decent contract) we should be buyers. The difference between us and the rest of the West isn't that much.... a quality player could have our young guys getting experience really competing this offseason and that would be worth more than this years 1st imo.

[Dejounte]

They do add up.

The Hawks have already tipped their hand that they're not interested in paying him anywhere near the max. Getting a late lottery - mid round 1st, in a supposedly deep draft and a flyer on a youngish big wing, who's shot the 3 well this season, is solid compensation for avoiding going down a road they'd clearly prefer to not go down (matching an offer sheet at a number they're uncomfortable with for asset retention purposes, then both sides carrying on a charade until they can trade him).

His max is the smallest of the bunch at 25% of the cap. He's not worth it in a vacuum, but that's not how these things work.

People who think we won't need to give up any assets to land JC and think we can simply land him by offering the max need to stop dreaming.

https://twitter.com/sarah_k_spence/status/1367577984555765766?s=19

Whether that's Lonnie, Luka, a first round pick, or maybe all of those things combined... It's going to hurt to go after JC. I'm not opposing going after him. Just saying people need to be realistic with their expectations. Atlanta isn't giving him up for nothing.

[mo7888]

People who think we won't need to give up any assets to land JC and think we can simply land him by offering the max need to stop dreaming.

https://twitter.com/sarah_k_spence/status/1367577984555765766?s=19

Whether that's Lonnie, Luka, a first round pick, or maybe all of those things combined... It's going to hurt to go after JC. I'm not opposing going after him. Just saying people need to be realistic with their expectations. Atlanta isn't giving him up for nothing.

The more games I watch JC this season the less I'm impressed. If we go that route I'll get on board but, at this point, I'd rather go in a different direction.

[RC_Drunkford]

As far as trade targets for the deadline Marvin Bagley is at the top of my list. Would be much cheaper than Collins and is locked into his rookie contract for another 2 1/2 seasons. Kings clearly want to part ways with him, but they probably want a draft pick for him since he was the No. 2 pick

[Dejounte]

From theathletic article, interview with Atlanta's GM:

Obviously we’re having conversations with all the teams around the league,” Schlenk said. “Right now, it doesn’t seem like there’s anything on the horizon, but that can change. You rarely get teams’ best offers. Nobody gets real serious until you get down to the last week or two. It’s hard to gauge. We certainly will look to do anything we can to do anything we can that feels like (it’s) going to make us a better team in the short term and the long term. Those sometimes don’t go hand-in-hand, but we’ll look at any situation we think that will help us.”

Collins’ situation is the most unique given his contract. Collins and his representation turned down a $90 million extension prior to the start of the season because they believe he will get more this offseason. With the way he’s played and because of the lack of quality free agents available on the market, their bet will likely pay off.

Schlenk said he actively listens to all trade offers on each of the team’s players, not just Collins specifically, to get a sense of what the value is on each of them. He did acknowledge that there are several teams who have interest in Collins because of his production at just 23 years old. He was asked if he views Collins as part of the team’s long-term plans.

“John’s a big part of our team — I think he’s second on the team in scoring right now — we all know how effective he can be offensively with his ability to finish in the lane and to shoot the ball from the perimeter,” Schlenk said. “So we still view John as a part of our team, certainly. He made the decision this fall to go to restricted free agency, and that was his choice and obviously, we respect it. But we’re going to have the opportunity to match any offer he gets. We’ll certainly make him an offer in free agency as well, and he’ll have the ability to see if he can get an offer from another team. But at the end of the day, we view him as part of our team, and I don’t see a restricted free agency situation where we would just let him walk for nothing.”

The reality of the situation is the Hawks have not made it abundantly clear to Collins that they view him as highly as he and his representation do. There’s a gap, and one that has been acknowledged from sources close to Collins.

When asked if he needs to see something specific out of Collins in the second half of the season to feel comfortable matching any offer he might receive in restricted free agency, Schlenk said he doesn’t because he and the team know how productive he is and there’s nothing he needs to prove.

[Chinook]

Do you have a specific target in mind? The 2021 free agent class isn't looking like a great one at the moment, so using what would have been the 2021 cap space on DeRozan and a player already under contract would be just fine with me, depending on who it is of course.

Honestly? I'm not again Aaron Gordon. I'd have to see if it's possible for SA to squeak in enough cap space to work out an extension with him next summer. But I think having him, Poeltl, White and Murray and Vassell all locked up means their defensive future is set. They'd still have to be aggressive and move some assets to get an offensive centerpiece worthy of a contender, but it's a huge step without much cost.

[Chinook]

I'm all for buying. I've been putting my thoughts out there about trying to acquire Beal over the summer but, I'd be in favor of buying now if we could get someone who isn't going to be a FA this offseason. I don't have any idea who might be available but if someone like Grant (Detroit) became available (not necessarily him but a good player on a decent contract) we should be buyers. The difference between us and the rest of the West isn't that much.... a quality player could have our young guys getting experience really competing this offseason and that would be worth more than this years 1st imo.

I was just talking about Gordon, but Grant makes sense for similar reasons.

[Dejounte]

The more games I watch JC this season the less I'm impressed. If we go that route I'll get on board but, at this point, I'd rather go in a different direction.

Same, very underwhelmed by him. I'm finding it harder each day seeing him grow beyond what he already is right now. He's young but what more type of a explosion development-wise can we expect from him? I think he would come as a legit shooting threat, but beyond that, I don't think anything else.

[RC_Drunkford]

Folks in this thread have basically been looking at the Spurs as sellers, but would anyone be okay with the team including this year's first with some expirings looking to buy something? Back when it looked like the Spurs were going to pick in the lottery again, it didn't make sense to trade the pick. But honestly, I'm not sure how badly the team needs a guy picked in the 20s given the youth on the squad already. I don't see them as one reasonable piece from a title or anything. But it might be possible to get a long-term fit with the young guys and then use subsequent off-seasons or trades to try to take more steps.

If the Spurs include a pick in a trade it should be the 2022 or 2023 pick, not the 2021 one since it's a deep draft and there's a high chance of us getting a valuable player in the 20s. As far as vets Horford for Aldridge straight up would work and give OKC cap relief, but would tie up our cap space significantly for the future, so I wouldn't want to get him even though he'd be a much better fit than Aldridge at this point. Like I said I'm wondering if we could somehow get Marvin Bagley. We need a starting PF and could sign somebody like Theis as a back up big in the offseason even if we keep DeRozan

[NASpurs]

Grant is being “targeted” by the Celtics but that necessarily doesn’t mean he’s available.

1367507425289453570

[JuneJive]

Is Collins really worth the max to SA?

I don't think so.

With all things accounted for ( his fit and the cap% ), he seems like a lateral move for the Spurs.

[RC_Drunkford]

Grant would be perfect with this team, but he also scores 23 PPG, the asking price should be pretty high for him. Maybe if you take on Blake and Grant the Pistons might do it, but that's a huge load of salary. We'd have to ship out LA, Gay and Mills and I see no way that PATFO would do this

[RC_Drunkford]

Grant is in the midst of his best season as a pro, and despite him not being selected for his first All-Star appearance this year, many teams have checked in on his availability and made offers, per league sources. However, Detroit appears to have *no interest* whatsoever in trading Grant, who is averaging 23.4 points this season and is in good position to win the NBA’s Most Improved Award, per league sources (https://theathletic.com/2422807/2021/03/04/detroit-pistons-trade-deadline-news-ellington/)

[Chinook]

If the Spurs include a pick in a trade it should be the 2022 or 2023 pick, not the 2021 one since it's a deep draft and there's a high chance of us getting a valuable player in the 20s. As far as vets Horford for Aldridge straight up would work and give OKC cap relief, but would tie up our cap space significantly for the future, so I wouldn't want to get him even though he'd be a much better fit than Aldridge at this point. Like I said I'm wondering if we could somehow get Marvin Bagley. We need a starting PF and could sign somebody like Theis as a back up big in the offseason even if we keep DeRozan

I'd argue the Spurs don't really need depth or value in the draft though. Like they'll probably end up keeping the pick and getting such a player. But Walker's the only young guy not signed beyond next year. 2021 is the year to skip a pick rather than in 2022 or 2023, and that's not even considering the possibility of the Spurs falling off in later years or running into the "double-draft" without a first.

I wouldn't consider Horford for LMA. I don't actually see it as an upgrade, and that's basically a seller move regardless. I'd hope they'd look for a vet who could still be a factor in three or four years rather than one who should be retired soon. I loved Bagley during the draft (just in case folks thought I always picked winners), so I'd be interested in him as speculative trade piece. But I don't think acquiring him would be the same as getting a starting PF. Personally could see Sam filling that role over Bags, who might be on the Chriss trajectory at this point.

[Dejounte]

Aaron Gordon and/or Evan Fournier will be traded. It's just a matter of to which team. From yesterday's theathletic article:

Gordon is far more likely to be traded than Vucevic, in my opinion. First, Gordon has only one full season remaining before he becomes an unrestricted free agent, and although Gordon has never expressed any public disillusionment with the team or Orlando, he would pass up an opportunity if he doesn’t explore his options.

Gordon and Isaac are best suited to play power forward on the offensive end. Schematically, the Magic would excel defensively with a starting forward pairing of Gordon and Isaac. Offensively, however, it would continue to be a severe struggle, as it’s been in past seasons. Neither player is a natural small forward who regularly creates efficient shots on his own. Also, Gordon and Isaac have not proven they can sink 3-pointers at a high enough rate to space the floor. Playing Gordon, Isaac and Fultz simultaneously is a recipe for subpar floor spacing.

This duplication of skills means that either Isaac or Gordon is expendable, and the Magic already have committed long term to Isaac, extending his contract for the next four full seasons at $17.4 million per season.

So if the Magic trade Fournier or lose him in free agency, a pathway for the team to obtain a starting shooting guard is to trade Gordon.

Of course, all of this begs a question: Why would the Magic want to part ways with Fournier in the first place?

The argument for holding onto Fournier beyond the trade deadline, and then either extending his contract before free agency or re-signing him in free agency, makes some sense from a pure X’s-and-O’s perspective. He’s one of the few reliable scorers on a team that generally struggles to generate offense. He is one of the few above-average 3-point shooters on a team with precious few quality shooters. He also draws shooting fouls. And at 6 foot 7, he’s a versatile, though erratic, defender.

Fournier, 28, does have flaws. He played poorly in the Magic’s two recent postseasons, although it’s fair to say that he was sick during last August’s series against Milwaukee. He also has a maddening tendency to take high-difficulty shots instead of passing, though it should be noted that his assist rate has improved this season.

The more significant disincentive to retaining him is financial. Because of the luxury tax, most teams cannot afford to keep all the players they might want to keep, especially if those players are in the primes of their careers.

Assuming Aminu exercises his player option, the Magic already have committed $114 million in guaranteed salaries next season to 10 players, including the recent contract extensions for Fultz and Isaac. And the $114 million figure does not even include the salary of the team’s 2021 first-round draft pick and the three or four additional players who would fill the remaining spots on the roster.

In that scenario, the Magic would not be able to fill out their roster and re-sign or extend Fournier at a reasonable rate without going into the luxury tax and/or severely hampering the team’s long-term cap flexibility. Salary-cap issues, by the way, also would make it less than palatable for the Magic to trade Fournier and unrestricted free agent-to-be Khem Birch for a player such as Sacramento starting two-guard Buddy Hield, who is due to earn an average salary of $20.8 million over the next three seasons. Without other cost-cutting moves, bringing in Hield and subtracting Fournier would leave the Magic in as much, and likely more, salary-cap peril than re-signing Fournier.

So this is the dilemma the Magic face: Either they can part ways with Fournier, or they can retain him and face a toxic salary-cap situation. And if the Magic trade him before the deadline, one of the best ways to fill his starting role long term would be through a trade — a trade that could require the team to give up Gordon.

[Dejounte]

https://youtu.be/IxTDxHqLqpI


https://youtu.be/8iD9clrWhUs

Just threw up in my mouth.

[r0drig0lac]

People who think we won't need to give up any assets to land JC and think we can simply land him by offering the max need to stop dreaming.

https://twitter.com/sarah_k_spence/status/1367577984555765766?s=19

Whether that's Lonnie, Luka, a first round pick, or maybe all of those things combined... It's going to hurt to go after JC. I'm not opposing going after him. Just saying people need to be realistic with their expectations. Atlanta isn't giving him up for nothing.
well, only delusional people would believe that in the first place.

[mo7888]

Aaron Gordon and/or Evan Fournier will be traded. It's just a matter of to which team. From yesterday's theathletic article:

Gordon is far more likely to be traded than Vucevic, in my opinion. First, Gordon has only one full season remaining before he becomes an unrestricted free agent, and although Gordon has never expressed any public disillusionment with the team or Orlando, he would pass up an opportunity if he doesn’t explore his options.

Gordon and Isaac are best suited to play power forward on the offensive end. Schematically, the Magic would excel defensively with a starting forward pairing of Gordon and Isaac. Offensively, however, it would continue to be a severe struggle, as it’s been in past seasons. Neither player is a natural small forward who regularly creates efficient shots on his own. Also, Gordon and Isaac have not proven they can sink 3-pointers at a high enough rate to space the floor. Playing Gordon, Isaac and Fultz simultaneously is a recipe for subpar floor spacing.

This duplication of skills means that either Isaac or Gordon is expendable, and the Magic already have committed long term to Isaac, extending his contract for the next four full seasons at $17.4 million per season.

So if the Magic trade Fournier or lose him in free agency, a pathway for the team to obtain a starting shooting guard is to trade Gordon.

Of course, all of this begs a question: Why would the Magic want to part ways with Fournier in the first place?

The argument for holding onto Fournier beyond the trade deadline, and then either extending his contract before free agency or re-signing him in free agency, makes some sense from a pure X’s-and-O’s perspective. He’s one of the few reliable scorers on a team that generally struggles to generate offense. He is one of the few above-average 3-point shooters on a team with precious few quality shooters. He also draws shooting fouls. And at 6 foot 7, he’s a versatile, though erratic, defender.

Fournier, 28, does have flaws. He played poorly in the Magic’s two recent postseasons, although it’s fair to say that he was sick during last August’s series against Milwaukee. He also has a maddening tendency to take high-difficulty shots instead of passing, though it should be noted that his assist rate has improved this season.

The more significant disincentive to retaining him is financial. Because of the luxury tax, most teams cannot afford to keep all the players they might want to keep, especially if those players are in the primes of their careers.

Assuming Aminu exercises his player option, the Magic already have committed $114 million in guaranteed salaries next season to 10 players, including the recent contract extensions for Fultz and Isaac. And the $114 million figure does not even include the salary of the team’s 2021 first-round draft pick and the three or four additional players who would fill the remaining spots on the roster.

In that scenario, the Magic would not be able to fill out their roster and re-sign or extend Fournier at a reasonable rate without going into the luxury tax and/or severely hampering the team’s long-term cap flexibility. Salary-cap issues, by the way, also would make it less than palatable for the Magic to trade Fournier and unrestricted free agent-to-be Khem Birch for a player such as Sacramento starting two-guard Buddy Hield, who is due to earn an average salary of $20.8 million over the next three seasons. Without other cost-cutting moves, bringing in Hield and subtracting Fournier would leave the Magic in as much, and likely more, salary-cap peril than re-signing Fournier.

So this is the dilemma the Magic face: Either they can part ways with Fournier, or they can retain him and face a toxic salary-cap situation. And if the Magic trade him before the deadline, one of the best ways to fill his starting role long term would be through a trade — a trade that could require the team to give up Gordon.

I'm not sure we would want Gordon and Fournier but if we did, LMA + Lyles + Lonnie + a 1st would probably get it done based on the cap problems they have next year.

[Dejounte]

I'm not sure we would want Gordon and Fournier but if we did, LMA + Lyles + Lonnie + a 1st would probably get it done based on the cap problems they have next year.

If I was being truly honest, I'd probably prefer Aaron over JC. JC just seems like a 1 dimensional stiff to me and Aaron seems more dynamic where you can use him in different scenarios. I would just have to erase those music videos from my memory to accept it.

[cd021]

That's an option they should be exploring and the obvious target is (again) Collins. The Hawks will probably match any offer sheet (maybe a max dissuades them), so . . .

To Hawks: Spurs top 10 protected '21 1st, Ojeleye
To Celtics: Gay
To Spurs: Collins

This would probably increase the chances of a Aldridge trade/buyout . . .

Starters: Collins, DeRozan, Poeltl, White, Murray

Rotation: Mills, Johnson, Walker IV, Vassell, Lyles

I mean, the Spurs pick could just as easily be a lottery pick but that seems light for the Hawks to give up on Collins, even if they don't plan to match or offer him the max. Maybe that could work out if Boston were to trade their 2021 first and it gets routed to the Hawks. Otherwise, I think that there's other deals that the Hawks would take for Collins.

[mo7888]

If I was being truly honest, I'd probably prefer Aaron over JC. JC just seems like a 1 dimensional stiff to me and Aaron seems more dynamic where you can use him in different scenarios. I would just have to erase those music videos from my memory to accept it.

I agree with that.

[RC_Drunkford]

If I was being truly honest, I'd probably prefer Aaron over JC. JC just seems like a 1 dimensional stiff to me and Aaron seems more dynamic where you can use him in different scenarios. I would just have to erase those music videos from my memory to accept it.

Collins is a much better shooter though. Gordon has upped his 3-point percentage this season, but I'm not sure if he can keep that up. He would hurt the spacing in the starting line up. The problem with the Magic is they want DeRozan more than anybody. What they are missing is an iso scorer to take their team to the next level. I wouldn't want to give up DeMar to get Aaron Gordon.

[lmbebo]

Would love to get JC... Bagley, if could be had, would be worth the flyer. Young enough and with talent.

[spurraider21]

Folks in this thread have basically been looking at the Spurs as sellers, but would anyone be okay with the team including this year's first with some expirings looking to buy something? Back when it looked like the Spurs were going to pick in the lottery again, it didn't make sense to trade the pick. But honestly, I'm not sure how badly the team needs a guy picked in the 20s given the youth on the squad already. I don't see them as one reasonable piece from a title or anything. But it might be possible to get a long-term fit with the young guys and then use subsequent off-seasons or trades to try to take more steps.
i'd have no problem with that. whether its selling LMA, or using LMA + a pick to buy, (or something similar involving gay/mills), im ok with it. just want to extract some value out of the vets before their free agency

[scott]

Hi, I am just a dude who loves the Spurs and doesn't know jack about the NBA other than trades I pull of in 2K21.

But... what about someone like Mitchell Robinson? Seems like they have a ton of bigs so maybe he's expendable? I just want a guy to be another Jakob. Block, rebound, dunk from time to time.

[KingKev]

Would love to make a run at Gordon and Bamba. Gordon has the versatility to guard the LBJ/KD/Kawhi/PGs of the league and could use a change of scenery. Likewise Bamba probably needs a shot elsewhere. Only 22, all the physical atteibutes to be the next Gobert and has show flashes of an offensive touch. Gay or Mills plus Walker IV and a second for Gordon and Bamba would be huge if we could pull if off although I’d suspect Orl would want a first or Sammy instead of a second.

[mo7888]

Would love to make a run at Gordon and Bamba. Gordon has the versatility to guard the LBJ/KD/Kawhi/PGs of the league and could use a change of scenery. Likewise Bamba probably needs a shot elsewhere. Only 22, all the physical atteibutes to be the next Gobert and has show flashes of an offensive touch. Gay or Mills plus Walker IV and a second for Gordon and Bamba would be huge if we could pull if off although I’d suspect Orl would want a first or Sammy instead of a second.

I'd like Gordon (although Grant in Detroit I'd go after 1st) and Bamba would be a nice guy to kick the tires on... I don't believe I'd give up Lonnie for him though....I'd rather replace him with our 1st rd pick ... I wouldn't offer more than that for a guy who can enter Free Agency...

[John B]

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1264902234703265794/lC3YnIYF_normal.jpg



(https://twitter.com/wojespn)


Adrian Wojnarowski



@wojespn


(https://twitter.com/wojespn)










Six-time All-Star forward Blake Griffin has agreed to a contract buyout with the Detroit Pistons and will become an unrestricted free agent, sources tell ESPN.

[PrimeMinister]

Hi, I am just a dude who loves the Spurs and doesn't know jack about the NBA other than trades I pull of in 2K21.

But... what about someone like Mitchell Robinson? Seems like they have a ton of bigs so maybe he's expendable? I just want a guy to be another Jakob. Block, rebound, dunk from time to time.

knicks are super high on him

in that mold I’ve had my eye on Robert Williams. More attainable, less of a featured rotation piece- plenty of potential as an energy big who can block shots and run the floor. Celtics make sense as a trade partner with their TPE.

[Dverde]

Griffen should go to the Suns. They have that miracle medical staff and he can play with his butt buddy CP3 again.

[Leetonidas]

Griffin hasn't dunked since December of 2019 :wow

Dude is finished. Bet he goes to LAL or BKN though

[John B]

Yeah I think Griffin is going back to LA, but to the Lakers. Man that would be a big F U to Balmer.

[spurraider21]

Griffin hasn't dunked since December of 2019 :wow

Dude is finished. Bet he goes to LAL or BKN though
thats insane tbh :lol

[Dejounte]

20 days until the deadline, boys

[R. DeMurre]

Here's an interesting article about Chris Boucher blocking three point attempts at a record clip:
https://hoopshype.com/2021/02/22/toronto-raptors-chris-boucher-nick-nurse-defense-sixth-man/

The thought of Poeltl & Boucher on the court together is appealing, with Poeltl the anchor and Boucher being allowed to roam as more of a free safety. He's a free agent after next season. I like his fit much more than that of John Collins. Probably a pipe dream though, as he's a good candidate to win 6th man of the year & likely to be offered an extension by Toronto.

[Dverde]

20 days until the deadline, boys

Tis the season for Spurs to over value their players and for the players to ask for buy outs.

[TD 21]

I mean, the Spurs pick could just as easily be a lottery pick but that seems light for the Hawks to give up on Collins, even if they don't plan to match or offer him the max. Maybe that could work out if Boston were to trade their 2021 first and it gets routed to the Hawks. Otherwise, I think that there's other deals that the Hawks would take for Collins.

Top 5-7 protected and Walker IV, is as far as I'd be willing to go.

Again, in a vacuum he'd obviously be worth more than that. In the situation they've put themselves in, they'll be hard pressed to get a pick as potentially valuable as that.

No chance the Celtics offer a 1st for Gay.

[mo7888]

I noticed that the Kings are reported to be trying to trade Bagley but are getting very little interest. He could be a potential get for us if we can't get an Aaron Gordon or Grant.

Also, with Detroit buying out Blake you have to wonder if they will become bigger sellers than initially thought. I would think moving Grant and Plumlee would make sense for them. A 3 team deal sending them LMA (to be bought out) and Plumlee going to Boston could make sense.

Detroit- LMA + our 1st + Langford
Boston- Plumlee
SA- Grant

[mo7888]

I noticed that the Kings are reported to be trying to trade Bagley but are getting very little interest. He could be a potential get for us if we can't get an Aaron Gordon or Grant.

Also, with Detroit buying out Blake you have to wonder if they will become bigger sellers than initially thought. I would think moving Grant and Plumlee would make sense for them. A 3 team deal sending them LMA (to be bought out) and Plumlee going to Boston could make sense.

Detroit- LMA + our 1st + Langford
Boston- Plumlee
SA- Grant

If we wanted Plumlee for our backup C we could do something like this


Detroit- LMA + our 1st + Lonnie

SA- Grant + Plumlee

[cd021]

Top 5-7 protected and Walker IV, is as far as I'd be willing to go.

Again, in a vacuum he'd obviously be worth more than that. In the situation they've put themselves in, they'll be hard pressed to get a pick as potentially valuable as that.

No chance the Celtics offer a 1st for Gay.

No chance the Celtics offer a 1st for just Gay, I was thinking of adding Mills to that 3-teamer but your trade is simpler and works financially.

I still don't know if the Hawks take that deal but a possible lottery pick, and a decent young player, for a player that the Hawks probably aren't that excited to pay the max to, is a competitive offer.

[PhantomDashCam]

https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1367965008374636547?s=20

https://twitter.com/hittingpaydirt/status/1367902971002904576?s=20

Not sure I agree with LAC’s FO being called amazing but hard to disagree in hindsight with what happened to Detroit as a result of the trade.

[exstatic]

I noticed that the Kings are reported to be trying to trade Bagley but are getting very little interest. He could be a potential get for us if we can't get an Aaron Gordon or Grant.

Also, with Detroit buying out Blake you have to wonder if they will become bigger sellers than initially thought. I would think moving Grant and Plumlee would make sense for them. A 3 team deal sending them LMA (to be bought out) and Plumlee going to Boston could make sense.

Detroit- LMA + our 1st + Langford
Boston- Plumlee
SA- Grant

re Bagley...

This season has only provided more drama. Bagley had a brutal start to the campaign on the floor, and his father chastised Kings’ head coach Luke Walton and asked for his son to be traded on Twitter.

Spurs won’t want any Uncle Dennis reruns.

[mo7888]

re Bagley...

This season has only provided more drama. Bagley had a brutal start to the campaign on the floor, and his father chastised Kings’ head coach Luke Walton and asked for his son to be traded on Twitter.

Spurs won’t want any Uncle Dennis reruns.

You're probably right about that...

[Dejounte]

DeMar will not be traded unless whoever is brought back in the trade helps the team win now. This is assuming the Spurs are still fighting for a playoff spot. Trading DeMar and then risk missing the playoffs when you were on track to get in will be horrible from a PR standpoint. Spurs are not known to take such risks. I don't think there's anyone like that we can trade for, so any trade involving DeMar will likely happen in the offseason.

You can apply the same reasoning with the other vets, but they're not really big engines on the team and their production could easily be replaced. DeMar is a big part of our offense. Not saying he's great at it, in fact I prefer an offense without him in it. But the reality is we have to look at it from the Spurs' point of view: do they think they would be able to replace his production with our young guys? If Lonnie was further along, I would say maybe.

[Seventyniner]

Not sure I agree with LAC’s FO being called amazing but hard to disagree in hindsight with what happened to Detroit as a result of the trade.

That same FO is the one who gave Griffin that contract in the first place. imo they were lucky that the Pistons were willing to overpay that much. That second deal was legit very good, though another example of a dumb team overpaying.

Developing players and flipping them to teams with dumb FOs is a viable strategy to improve.

[FutureMan]

What kind of picks would we need to give for this trade?? Keeping in mind that Atlanta would get rid of Gallinari’s contract since he has underperformed.

ATL: Aldridge & Vassell (or Walker)
SAS: Gallinari & Collins

[dbestpro]

DDR will not be traded even though the Spurs might get something nice in return. He is 50/50 to resign with Spurs and 30/70 to be part of a sign and trade. LMA will not be traded cause the only thing they can get in return is a long term contract on another player. LMA will 100% walk at the end of the season.

[Teamduncan21]

DeMar will not be traded unless whoever is brought back in the trade helps the team win now. This is assuming the Spurs are still fighting for a playoff spot. Trading DeMar and then risk missing the playoffs when you were on track to get in will be horrible from a PR standpoint. Spurs are not known to take such risks. I don't think there's anyone like that we can trade for, so any trade involving DeMar will likely happen in the offseason.

You can apply the same reasoning with the other vets, but they're not really big engines on the team and their production could easily be replaced. DeMar is a big part of our offense. Not saying he's great at it, in fact I prefer an offense without him in it. But the reality is we have to look at it from the Spurs' point of view: do they think they would be able to replace his production with our young guys? If Lonnie was further along, I would say maybe.


Exactly. We shouldn't be trading for the sake of trading. It's fun to play gm here and there. But spurs will.trafr to get better. Not to have fun cause patfo is bored.

[exstatic]

What kind of picks would we need to give for this trade?? Keeping in mind that Atlanta would get rid of Gallinari’s contract since he has underperformed.

ATL: Aldridge & Vassell (or Walker)
SAS: Gallinari & Collins

Spurs are not trading Vassell. He has more upside than Collins, oh, and Gallinari is a China doll. Just look at his consistently low games played each season. He makes too much money for playing 60 games.

[Kurgan]

Spurs are not trading Vassell. He has more upside than Collins, oh, and Gallinari is a China doll. Just look at his consistently low games played each season. He makes too much money for playing 60 games.

You're a Porzingis fan, aren't you? Weird for you to call Gallo a china doll while stanning for Porky. I'm not a fan or either player because of their injury history. Just calling out the lack of consistency.

[Leetonidas]

Gallo makes Zinger look like an iron man :lol

[buttsR4rebounding]

The only person I can see being traded is Gay. His contract is reasonable and their will be teams interested in him. If Luka continues improve Rudy becomes expendable.

[TD 21]

No chance the Celtics offer a 1st for just Gay, I was thinking of adding Mills to that 3-teamer but your trade is simpler and works financially.

I still don't know if the Hawks take that deal but a possible lottery pick, and a decent young player, for a player that the Hawks probably aren't that excited to pay the max to, is a competitive offer.



To Hawks: Gordon, Walker IV

To Magic: DeRozan, Eubanks

To Spurs: Collins, Snell, Bamba, Ennis III

There's various permutations that could work after the Gordon, DeRozan, Collins base. This would obviously come down to picking Collins over Gordon, which is debatable.

[FutureMan]

Spurs are not trading Vassell. He has more upside than Collins, oh, and Gallinari is a China doll. Just look at his consistently low games played each season. He makes too much money for playing 60 games.

Higher upside than Collins is a tough thing to sell. At this point I’d be happy if Vassell can put up the stats of Haliburton haha

But anyway, let’s say it’s Walker. How many picks to make that work or do you feel it is an even trade??

[PhantomDashCam]

That same FO is the one who gave Griffin that contract in the first place. imo they were lucky that the Pistons were willing to overpay that much. That second deal was legit very good, though another example of a dumb team overpaying.

Developing players and flipping them to teams with dumb FOs is a viable strategy to improve.

Without question, though atypical of what makes the Spurs so unique. They genuinely care for their players, seeing beyond the raw numerical production to the character underneath.

Love or Hate their MO, they care just as much about a potential landing spot for a Spur as the subsequent remuneration.

[BackHome]

If we weren't right now making playoffs I think we would be seeing one or two players moved but at this point I think Spurs stand pat. Now I would like for them to have the phone open to trades and if something truly comes that will make us better down the line then they should go for it.

[exstatic]

You're a Porzingis fan, aren't you? Weird for you to call Gallo a china doll while stanning for Porky. I'm not a fan or either player because of their injury history. Just calling out the lack of consistency.

Most of Porzingod’s missed time was due to one ACL tear. He missed the end of one season, in which time he was traded, one whole season, and the beginning of the following season.

Like a good season for Gallo in the last 8-10 years is 68 games his last year with the Clippers. He had two seasons in the 20s, and also had his own missed season in 2013. His numbers have really cratered, less than 11 ppg. If you just compare present salary and production, KP still dropping 20/8 with a blocked shot, and shooting pretty well from 3 is a pretty easy choice. I have, however, soured on KP, because of family representation. His brother, also his agent, is supposedly a piece of work, and I’m really done with pushy families.

I’d take a hard pass on both.

[Teamduncan21]

We are all traumatized with family representation. Haha

[JADG79]

The only person I can see being traded is Gay. His contract is reasonable and their will be teams interested in him. If Luka continues improve Rudy becomes expendable.

Contenders may look for Gay, he can play small ball with an expiring contract.
Also Mills is a reliable PG backup for a contender like PHI but Pop is in love with him.

[ace3g]

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1197929409044504576/nKXnm0aN_normal.jpg (https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania) Shams Charania (https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania) (https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania) ShamsCharania (https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania)





Blake Griffin has cleared free agency waivers and the six-time NBA All-Star is expected to sign with the Brooklyn Nets, sources tell @TheAthletic (https://twitter.com/TheAthletic/) @Stadium (https://twitter.com/Stadium/).
4:00pm · 7 Mar 2021 (https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1368682878255632393) · TweetDeck (https://help.twitter.com/en/using-twitter/how-to-tweet#source-labels)

[Dverde]

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1197929409044504576/nKXnm0aN_normal.jpg (https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania) Shams Charania (https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania)Sham (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=17672)sCharania





Blake Griffin has cleared free agency waivers and the six-time NBA All-Star is expected to sign with the Brooklyn Nets, sources tell @TheAthletic (https://twitter.com/TheAthletic/) @Stadium (https://twitter.com/Stadium/).
4:00pm · 7 Mar 2021 (https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1368682878255632393) · TweetDeck (https://help.twitter.com/en/using-twitter/how-to-tweet#source-labels)

Good to see they got a solid defensive big to shore up their defense :lol :lol

[ace3g]

25. Orlando Magic | PR: 29 ↑
Will the Magic pull the plug?

The Magic have some tough decisions to make in the coming weeks. They’re 13-23, second-worst record in the East, with the league’s third-worst net rating. Ranking them 25th might be generous, but that’s because they have some good players on their team that front offices want.

The Heat, Spurs, Celtics, and Hornets have all expressed significant interest in acquiring All-Star center Nikola Vucevic, league sources say. Vucevic, 30, is averaging 24.6 points and 3.7 assists while hitting 41.2 percent of his 3s and grabbing 11.6 rebounds per game. Front office executives around the league are skeptical that the Magic will end up pulling the trigger on a deal, though, given that Vucevic has two more seasons left on his contract; if they do, the price would be high.

The Magic are also receiving calls on two veterans in the backcourt, Terrence Ross and Evan Fournier. League sources say the Hornets are among teams to express interest in Fournier, while the Nuggets have inquired about Ross. Orlando will have options. It’s just a matter of whether teams pay up.

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2021/3/8/22319031/nba-power-rankings-midseason-brooklyn-nets

[Dejounte]

25. Orlando Magic | PR: 29 ↑
Will the Magic pull the plug?

The Magic have some tough decisions to make in the coming weeks. They’re 13-23, second-worst record in the East, with the league’s third-worst net rating. Ranking them 25th might be generous, but that’s because they have some good players on their team that front offices want.

The Heat, Spurs, Celtics, and Hornets have all expressed significant interest in acquiring All-Star center Nikola Vucevic, league sources say. Vucevic, 30, is averaging 24.6 points and 3.7 assists while hitting 41.2 percent of his 3s and grabbing 11.6 rebounds per game. Front office executives around the league are skeptical that the Magic will end up pulling the trigger on a deal, though, given that Vucevic has two more seasons left on his contract; if they do, the price would be high.

The Magic are also receiving calls on two veterans in the backcourt, Terrence Ross and Evan Fournier. League sources say the Hornets are among teams to express interest in Fournier, while the Nuggets have inquired about Ross. Orlando will have options. It’s just a matter of whether teams pay up.

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2021/3/8/22319031/nba-power-rankings-midseason-brooklyn-nets

Finally some interesting news.

[Degoat]

Wonder what the deal would be obviously LMA to match salary but picks, any of our youngins?

[Seventyniner]

The Magic have a surprisingly dirty cap sheet ($124M committed next season) for such a bad team. I wonder how much of them possibly being willing to move Vucevic is salary relief, as opposed to only acquiring assets. I assume Poeltl would be part of the trade because he's on a very team-friendly deal and probably wouldn't like going back to the bench much. Gay + Poeltl + 1st probably gets it done, but that could be a high price to pay for a 30-year-old big, even though his contract is pretty good considering his production.

Vucevic shoots 41.2% on threes on 6.5 attempts per game. Having him instead of Poeltl would really goose the offense, especially with low-3PAr players like Murray and DeRozan in the starting lineup (assuming DDR stays). I haven't watched the Magic at all, though, so while I'm pretty sure Vucevic would be a marked downgrade on defense from Poeltl, I don't know how big that downgrade would be.

[Leetonidas]

I like Vuc but the Spurs defense is going to fall off a cliff if they trade Poeltl or his minutes go down substantially

[Chinook]

Yeah, I don't see a reason to want Vucevic with Poeltl playing so well. Gordon is the only moveable piece that makes sense.

[mo7888]

I have a hard time seeing us being interested in Vuc the way this team is constructed. I definitely think we'd be interested in Gordon and if we wanted a bigger deal maybe Fournier or Ross along with Gordon

[Dejounte]

I don't keep tabs on this guy. Can he play PF alongside Poeltl? Would he be upset coming off the bench? Maybe the idea is to trade him to a third team and that's where the interest comes from if it is at all legitimate.

[mo7888]

I don't keep tabs on this guy. Can he play PF alongside Poeltl? Would he be upset coming off the bench? Maybe the idea is to trade him to a third team and that's where the interest comes from if it is at all legitimate.

I don't think he's mobile enough to play the 4 and he's a starter for sure. Much better player than Poeltl offensively but not in his league when it comes to D.

[Dejounte]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yb_ai4IoJYM

So not even in small spurts, huh? Damn...

DeMar for Nikola works straight up...

Anyone who thinks LMA and Gay for Nikola gets it done is out of their mind...

[NASpurs]

Such a square peg fit if you’re keeping Poeltl otherwise offensively he would be a great starting center.

[LeBowen]

Vucevic is a legit all-star in his prime.
His contract is also great, 24 million in 21-22 season and 22 in 22-23 season.

I love Jakob, but if we're to be a legit playoff team, his flaws are just too much.
Amazing defender, sets great screens, but that's it. His finishing around the rim is soft, he's one of the worst FT shooters in the league and he's still a foul machine.
I can't see him playing more than 20 to 25mpg on a serious playoff team.

Now if you look at the rest of our roster, right now it looks like our starting lineup in a couple of years should be DJ/Derrick/Devin/Keldon, with Luka and Lonnie as the other players in contention to start.
None of them except for Devin will ever be legit 3pt shooters who're off-ball menace that causes chaos with their movement. Really bad spacing for modern game.
Lonnie is the other guy who can become an elite 3pt shooter, but he's been disappointing so far and I think he's the first one on the trading block if we talk young players.

If you start Jakob with those guys, it's simply not sustainable on offense. If we talk serious playoff teams, ofc.
Vucevic is averaging 6.5 3pa on 41% this season.

He might not be an ideal solution, but the facts are that we need some kind of a legit floor spacer on PF or C.
And I'd always take Vucevic over Collins, especially if we look at contract situations.

[mo7888]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yb_ai4IoJYM

So not even in small spurts, huh? Damn...

DeMar for Nikola works straight up...

Anyone who thinks LMA and Gay for Nikola gets it done is out of their mind...

I would think Poeltl would have to be apart of the package to make it work IF we wanted to go in a totally new direction.

[Dex]

Vucevic is a legit all-star in his prime.


So was Aldridge. :downspin:

[Leetonidas]

Anyone think Poeltl and Vuc can play together? Poeltl is probably mobile enough to cover most 4s

[Stump]

I don't see the point of trading for Vucevic. We'd give up so many young pieces to get him that we still wouldn't be a contender and would compromise the future.

[Dejounte]

Vucevic is a legit all-star in his prime.
His contract is also great, 24 million in 21-22 season and 22 in 22-23 season.

I love Jakob, but if we're to be a legit playoff team, his flaws are just too much.
Amazing defender, sets great screens, but that's it. His finishing around the rim is soft, he's one of the worst FT shooters in the league and he's still a foul machine.
I can't see him playing more than 20 to 25mpg on a serious playoff team.

Now if you look at the rest of our roster, right now it looks like our starting lineup in a couple of years should be DJ/Derrick/Devin/Keldon, with Luka and Lonnie as the other players in contention to start.
None of them except for Devin will ever be legit 3pt shooters who're off-ball menace that causes chaos with their movement. Really bad spacing for modern game.
Lonnie is the other guy who can become an elite 3pt shooter, but he's been disappointing so far and I think he's the first one on the trading block if we talk young players.

If you start Jakob with those guys, it's simply not sustainable on offense. If we talk serious playoff teams, ofc.
Vucevic is averaging 6.5 3pa on 41% this season.

He might not be an ideal solution, but the facts are that we need some kind of a legit floor spacer on PF or C.
And I'd always take Vucevic over Collins, especially if we look at contract situations.

All day, every day, and twice on Sundays.

The thing with Vucevic is his value is depreciating as well, so he could stay on and continue the trend of being a veteran for younger players. That torch will be passed from either DeRozan or LMA.

If there's a 1% the Spurs organization even thinks he could play in the rotation without getting in anyone's way... you go for it.

[Degoat]

No way we’d trade Demar for Nikola imo I could see any of the other vets plus a pick maybe for him but thats it

[Dejounte]

The concern with Nikola's ability to play PF (for short stretches) is his defense when guarding 3's, right?

I looked deeper and checked out how well he guards three and how frequent.

Below is a list of players who defended 3's as frequent as Nikola (in order of closest to Nikola to furthest):

Grant Williams
Zeke Nnaji
Raul Neto
Wendell Carter Jr.
Denzel Valentine
Dario Saric
James Wiseman
Obi Toppin
Tyler Johnson
Markieff Morris
Aaron Nesmith
Isaiah Stewart

Keep in mind, context here is important. Nikola's role consists of him staying inside the paint. So the times he's defending 3's are fewer opportunities than those assigned to do so (the wings in the list above)

As far as how well he guarded 3's compared to everyone on the list who contested 3's as much as he did or less... well, he didn't do too well. He allowed 38.3% on 3's, fifth worst on the list.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/defense-dash-3pt/?Season=2020-21&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&sort=FG3A&dir=1&CF=FG3A*LE*2.7:FG3_PCT*LE*39 (https://www.nba.com/stats/players/defense-dash-3pt/?Season=2020-21&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&sort=FG3_PCT&dir=1&CF=FG3A*LE*2.7:FG3_PCT*LE*39)

So for sure looks like a true center unless the Spurs can teach him defensive chops at his current age (highly improbable)

[bluebellmaniac]

Finally some interesting news.

The mere fact that the Spurs name has been dropped like that would sour negotiations, if true.

[stephen jackson]

I don’t like it with jakob playing well if he wasn’t then yeah but I like poertl

[Degoat]

I saw something from Kevin O Connor that the spurs might be interested in a guy named Alize Johnson, think he plays in the G league. Anyone know anything on him?

[PrimeMinister]

Jazz are literally laying the ground work of modern roster construction before our very eyes, and we look to have a similar foundation in place defensively with the closest comparison to Rudy Gobert at age 25 that we have probably seen since Rudy came into the nba

the finishing concerns are overblown. Jakob Poeltl at the rim has converted 72.3% of his looks- Jokic is at 75% this year, Embiid 73.9, Gobert 75%. It’s not always the prettiest but he picks his spots well and gets it done.

ive said it 100 times and I will keep saying it. You want your big man in today’s game to protect the rim, be mobile on the perimeter defensively and in the open floor, set screens and roll effectively.

Vooch puts us back into the 2018 spurs team build archetype. We will have a hard cap on our potential defensively with Vucevic playing center- his scoring will have to come down as he won’t have as many shots on our team as he does in Orlando. So we see a marginal uptick in our scoring potential that is actually less than the sum of its parts, and take a massive step back defensively.

next trade scenario please.

[spurraider21]

Jazz are literally laying the ground work of modern roster construction before our very eyes, and we look to have a similar foundation in place defensively with the closest comparison to Rudy Gobert at age 25 that we have probably seen since Rudy came into the nba

the finishing concerns are overblown. Jakob Poeltl at the rim has converted 72.3% of his looks- Jokic is at 75% this year, Embiid 73.9, Gobert 75%. It’s not always the prettiest but he picks his spots well and gets it done.

ive said it 100 times and I will keep saying it. You want your big man in today’s game to protect the rim, be mobile on the perimeter defensively and in the open floor, set screens and roll effectively.

Vooch puts us back into the 2018 spurs team build archetype. We will have a hard cap on our potential defensively with Vucevic playing center- his scoring will have to come down as he won’t have as many shots on our team as he does in Orlando. So we see a marginal uptick in our scoring potential that is actually less than the sum of its parts, and take a massive step back defensively.

next trade scenario please.
just comparing percentages isn't enough... volume matters too. a guy who picks his spots en route to 7-8 ppg is different from a guy who scores 14

[PrimeMinister]

just comparing percentages isn't enough... volume matters too. a guy who picks his spots en route to 7-8 ppg is different from a guy who scores 14

when you’re talking about point blank lay ups- sample size isn’t as much of a factor. Fair to say that under higher volume he’s still converting at a similar clip.

In that vein- Rudy Gobert converted 72.5% of his looks at the rim at age 25 at a very similar volume per game. It’s also clear as the year has gone on and Jak has assumed the role of everyday starter that his rhythm and timing around the basket has improved.

he defends at an elite level, he screens and rolls, can switch, and finishes around the basket. He’s also 25 on a bargain deal.

[Dejounte]

when you’re talking about point blank lay ups- sample size isn’t as much of a factor. Fair to say that under higher volume he’s still converting at a similar clip.

In that vein- Rudy Gobert converted 72.5% of his looks at the rim at age 25 at a very similar volume per game. It’s also clear as the year has gone on and Jak has assumed the role of everyday starter that his rhythm and timing around the basket has improved.

he defends at an elite level, he screens and rolls, can switch, and finishes around the basket. He’s also 25 on a bargain deal.

Yeah, Rudy is taking three more shots to score 6 more points than Poeltl... Big whoop lmao

How does Rudy not pick his spots? Why are we acting like Rudy is some offensive maestro? Dude is being paid the max (3x more than Poeltl), he BETTER be scoring more.

[spurraider21]

when you’re talking about point blank lay ups- sample size isn’t as much of a factor. Fair to say that under higher volume he’s still converting at a similar clip.

In that vein- Rudy Gobert converted 72.5% of his looks at the rim at age 25 at a very similar volume per game. It’s also clear as the year has gone on and Jak has assumed the role of everyday starter that his rhythm and timing around the basket has improved.

he defends at an elite level, he screens and rolls, can switch, and finishes around the basket. He’s also 25 on a bargain deal.
yeah, poeltl playing at this "jakob 2.0" level, at his pay, is quite a bargain

[spurraider21]

Yeah, Rudy is taking three more shots to score 6 more points than Poeltl... Big whoop lmao

How does Rudy not pick his spots? Why are we acting like Rudy is some offensive maestro? Dude is being paid the max (3x more than Poeltl), he BETTER be scoring more.[/QUOTE]
because rudy has been consistently elite for a stretch of multiple years, not for bursts here and there.

taking 3 more shots to score 6 more points is objective improvement. also a better rebounder. and as good as poeltl's defense has been, gobert has still been better.

but yes, as i said in my last post, jakob playing at february levels represents a bargain on his contract

[PrimeMinister]

I dunno boys, I just see the Vooch rumblings as more “spurs are interested” posturing than I do any indication of an imminent move. Mainly because critically evaluating his fit and the various give and take with offense, defense, what has made us successful this year when we win games leads me to the conclusion Vucevic isn’t a serious possibility.

Perhaps in the coming years you could make the argument that surrounding Vucevic with defenders like DJ, Derrick, Vassell, now Luka will allow the team to be a top 5-10 team defensively with a higher scoring potential than we would with Jakob as the starter, but I’m not there yet and don’t see Vooch as being the answer to creating a title contending team.

[The Truth #6]

when you’re talking about point blank lay ups- sample size isn’t as much of a factor. Fair to say that under higher volume he’s still converting at a similar clip.

In that vein- Rudy Gobert converted 72.5% of his looks at the rim at age 25 at a very similar volume per game. It’s also clear as the year has gone on and Jak has assumed the role of everyday starter that his rhythm and timing around the basket has improved.

he defends at an elite level, he screens and rolls, can switch, and finishes around the basket. He’s also 25 on a bargain deal.

That makes sense to me. I love the FO’s new dedication to defense. To me we need 3P shooters and Vucevic seems to provide that but I think I would keep looking as well. Granted, I need to watch his game more closely. But the team is trending in a good direction, especially with Luka. I want him to get shots and Yak is perfect in that he will never complain about touches. That’s remarkable for the NBA.

[Dejounte]

DeMar to Orlando

Heat, Celtics, or Hornets take Vucevic

Extra parts (from the Heat, Celtics, or Hornets) go to Spurs

[Sugus]

Jazz are literally laying the ground work of modern roster construction before our very eyes, and we look to have a similar foundation in place defensively with the closest comparison to Rudy Gobert at age 25 that we have probably seen since Rudy came into the nba

the finishing concerns are overblown. Jakob Poeltl at the rim has converted 72.3% of his looks- Jokic is at 75% this year, Embiid 73.9, Gobert 75%. It’s not always the prettiest but he picks his spots well and gets it done.

ive said it 100 times and I will keep saying it. You want your big man in today’s game to protect the rim, be mobile on the perimeter defensively and in the open floor, set screens and roll effectively.

Vooch puts us back into the 2018 spurs team build archetype. We will have a hard cap on our potential defensively with Vucevic playing center- his scoring will have to come down as he won’t have as many shots on our team as he does in Orlando. So we see a marginal uptick in our scoring potential that is actually less than the sum of its parts, and take a massive step back defensively.

next trade scenario please.

Highly agree with this post. The Jazz are showing everyone that you don't need 5 three-point shooters on the court at all times to be a good, let alone league-best, modern team. The obvious difference between them and the Spurs are the quality of their shooters, both in accuracy and volume, and also the fact that most if not all of their regular rotation players are good defenders. But we're not all that far from following a similar blueprint at all, and trading/acquiring a stretch-5 should only be considered insofar as it doesn't lower the defensive presence of the starting C (basically, can we get a Jakob-level center defensively that just so happens to be able to shoot 3's? The league, by and large, looks to be answering either No, or Embiid).

The more I think about it, the more I end up coming around to my previous position of wanting to trade DeMar. I'm at peace with knowing it won't happen, and there's a lot more scenarios where the Spurs are left with nothing than there are scenarios where they get a good haul for him, but I still think it's the best step to really move forward. We've seen (almost) every young player on our team take a step forward this season, and whilst they're probably gonna be worse in the short term, there's a much higher ceiling to the team moving forward if DeMar isn't there to cap it. At worst, we fail and start playing the lottery, like most teams eventually do. At best, the increased usage, touches, and motion lets the young players get even better.

I'm not expecting any trades by the deadline, but it sure would be nice to move one of Gay/Patty for assets. I'm not asking for much more after that...

[gospursgojas]

Lol. No way PATFO even thinks of demar for vuj. That trade is just silly.

I’d imagine the interest that’s being reported was like “hey orl you want LA and garbage for vuj?” And orl was like nah I’m good. The end.

[RC_Drunkford]

Vucevic is a legit all-star in his prime.
His contract is also great, 24 million in 21-22 season and 22 in 22-23 season.

I love Jakob, but if we're to be a legit playoff team, his flaws are just too much.
Amazing defender, sets great screens, but that's it. His finishing around the rim is soft, he's one of the worst FT shooters in the league and he's still a foul machine.
I can't see him playing more than 20 to 25mpg on a serious playoff team.

Now if you look at the rest of our roster, right now it looks like our starting lineup in a couple of years should be DJ/Derrick/Devin/Keldon, with Luka and Lonnie as the other players in contention to start.
None of them except for Devin will ever be legit 3pt shooters who're off-ball menace that causes chaos with their movement. Really bad spacing for modern game.
Lonnie is the other guy who can become an elite 3pt shooter, but he's been disappointing so far and I think he's the first one on the trading block if we talk young players.

If you start Jakob with those guys, it's simply not sustainable on offense. If we talk serious playoff teams, ofc.
Vucevic is averaging 6.5 3pa on 41% this season.

He might not be an ideal solution, but the facts are that we need some kind of a legit floor spacer on PF or C.
And I'd always take Vucevic over Collins, especially if we look at contract situations.

Right on the money. I've been making this point for weeks and people here didn't get it. Ideally I'd still like to keep Poeltl as an off the bench big, since his D is really elite. He's a big reason why the bench group with Murray got the best Net-Rating in the NBA. But on the other hand, the team really needs a 3-point shooting big

[Kevin]

Its hard seeing any teams parting with any serious future assets for a Rudy rental. Maybe a second round pick or a salary dump saving the Spurs some cash.

Patty could bring back a decent future asset since he's younger and could be re-signed after this season with 2-3 more years of production. No way does Pop actually trade him tho.

[Ocotillo]

I dunno boys, I just see the Vooch rumblings as more “spurs are interested” posturing than I do any indication of an imminent move. Mainly because critically evaluating his fit and the various give and take with offense, defense, what has made us successful this year when we win games leads me to the conclusion Vucevic isn’t a serious possibility.

Perhaps in the coming years you could make the argument that surrounding Vucevic with defenders like DJ, Derrick, Vassell, now Luka will allow the team to be a top 5-10 team defensively with a higher scoring potential than we would with Jakob as the starter, but I’m not there yet and don’t see Vooch as being the answer to creating a title contending team.

I am agreeing with you too. If Orlando is interested in being a seller, like someone else on the board is suggesting, let's see if we can get Mo Bamba and work him into be Jakob's backup.

[RC_Drunkford]

the thing is if the price for Vuc is high, then Myles Turner shouldn't cost that much more. That's really the type of big man I want, mobile shotblocker with a 3-point shot

[mo7888]

DeMar to Orlando

Heat, Celtics, or Hornets take Vucevic

Extra parts (from the Heat, Celtics, or Hornets) go to Spurs

While I don't think we're sending ddr out, I do think your concept is right in regard to these reports. I don't think we're after Vuc, I think we're after assets from our participation in a Vuc trade... if we're buying then I suspect Gordon is the target...if we're selling then picks are what we're after..... for me, I hope we're buying..

[exstatic]

Finally some interesting news.

Conjecture. We often get mentioned in order to prod some other team into action, or to pump up the value of a player.

[exstatic]

The Magic have a surprisingly dirty cap sheet ($124M committed next season) for such a bad team. I wonder how much of them possibly being willing to move Vucevic is salary relief, as opposed to only acquiring assets. I assume Poeltl would be part of the trade because he's on a very team-friendly deal and probably wouldn't like going back to the bench much. Gay + Poeltl + 1st probably gets it done, but that could be a high price to pay for a 30-year-old big, even though his contract is pretty good considering his production.

Vucevic shoots 41.2% on threes on 6.5 attempts per game. Having him instead of Poeltl would really goose the offense, especially with low-3PAr players like Murray and DeRozan in the starting lineup (assuming DDR stays). I haven't watched the Magic at all, though, so while I'm pretty sure Vucevic would be a marked downgrade on defense from Poeltl, I don't know how big that downgrade would be.

It would destroy the defense, though. He can’t protect the rim or switch like Poodle.

[Sugus]

Right on the money. I've been making this point for weeks and people here didn't get it. Ideally I'd still like to keep Poeltl as an off the bench big, since his D is really elite. He's a big reason why the bench group with Murray got the best Net-Rating in the NBA. But on the other hand, the team really needs a 3-point shooting big

Does it, though?

The Spurs unequivocally need more 3pt shooting - but not necessarily coming from the C position, and especially not if it comes at the cost of losing out on Jakob's elite defensive presence, which elevates the entire team around him. For one, unless he really, really can't get his foul troubles in check (which he's managed to do for the most part this season, at least compared to last one/the bubble), Poeltl is a starting-caliber player for sure, and benching him will greatly reduce his impact - and also weaken the main unit's defense, by a big margin. People sleep on it, but we don't really have all that good of a defensive SL: Dejounte is obviously the best of the bunch, and even he is prone to lapses and off-nights getting cooked by opposing guards; Lonnie needs no explanation; DeMar doesn't either; Keldon, while really strong against bigs and in general man-to-man, is a lousy team defender right now, and probably will take a few years to get better, if ever. Poeltl being there helps hide the entire SL's defensive woes, in the same way that having Bryn Forbes in the SL exacerbates the problem not only for him, but for the entire lineup.

So yes, it'd be cool if Poeltl could shoot from outside. But is having a shooting C really worth losing the foundation of the Spurs' defense? I'd say no. Of course, the dream is to have a C that's both elite defensively, and also a shooter - but those tend to go literally #1 in the draft due to being such a coveted archetype (Ayton, Embiid, etc). And the ones who aren't good defenders, often trend towards being liabilities on that end (KAT is the perfect example), which this team really doesn't need. I'd argue the Spurs would be much better served trying to replace DeRozan with a high-volume 3&D wing (Vassell could get there someday, but he's not ready yet and won't be for maybe a year or two), than trying to find the next 3&D center anywhere outside of the top lottery.

It's a bit like saying, the Spurs should get a volume shooting SG! With that SG being literally Forbes. Most times, not worth it.

[KingKev]

Vuc, AG and Bamba are interesting pieces. First two are not without their flaws and need the right compliment at the 4/5. Lohnnie for Bamba straight up is a fair trade and a wise gamble IMO.

[Dejounte]

Conjecture. We often get mentioned in order to prod some other team into action, or to pump up the value of a player.

1) so other teams use the Spurs whose reputation is being reluctant dealers?
2) doubt the Magic are the ones who called the Spurs about a deal given that we have Poeltl shining lately, so it must have been the other way around but not exclusively for Vucevic but for participation in a deal as mo7888 said
3) three teams isn't enough to prod the other team to trade, they needed a fourth in the Spurs?

[exstatic]

Right on the money. I've been making this point for weeks and people here didn't get it. Ideally I'd still like to keep Poeltl as an off the bench big, since his D is really elite. He's a big reason why the bench group with Murray got the best Net-Rating in the NBA. But on the other hand, the team really needs a 3-point shooting big

We started winning when we benched an offensive center for Poeltl. Seems like a step back to go get another one.

[8sy21vd]

Definetely in favor of trading any or all of the expiring vets along with Lonnie for front-court upgrades.

[exstatic]

Happens all the time. If the Spurs are “interested” it must be a quality player and quality guy, right? The state of NBA journalism has also cratered to the point that guys without information go to the trade checker, and just see what fits. It’s not other teams, it’s wanna be writers and player agents.

There are like maybe four writers who I consider plugged in, and if it isn’t one of them, I scroll.

[Ocotillo]

Vuc, AG and Bamba are interesting pieces. First two are not without their flaws and need the right compliment at the 4/5. Lohnnie for Bamba straight up is a fair trade and a wise gamble IMO.

A change of scenery for two underperforming young guys might be win/win. Besides, at the home games when Mo blocks a shot the sound system can play a bit of Richie Valens La bamba. :lol

[BacktoBasics]

Vuc, AG and Bamba are interesting pieces. First two are not without their flaws and need the right compliment at the 4/5. Lohnnie for Bamba straight up is a fair trade and a wise gamble IMO.

Bamba is looking like a bust. I get the curb appeal but Lonnie is actually showing something. At best, Bamba could hope for a Nerlens Noel kinda career. He can’t even crack the rotation.

[buttsR4rebounding]

I don't see the point of trading for Vucevic. We'd give up so many young pieces to get him that we still wouldn't be a contender and would compromise the future.

I don’t have a problem trading one of the young core, but not for a position that we seem to have covered with a high value contract. Poeltl is a +7 net per 100 possessions. I doubt Vuc sniffs that.

[gambit1990]

+1 for vucevic.

[FutureMan]

Just a few days ago I was thinking about two trades and decided to post about the Collins one instead (Collins and Gallinari for Aldridge, Walker, and whatever picks to make it even) but the second trade was this one:

ORL: Aldridge, Walker, Lyles, and whatever is appropriate/reasonable pick wise
SAS: Vucevic, Ennis, & Clark

As a part time Magic fan this really helps them with their cap situation and as a Spurs fan a second All Star to this team gets us back in business.

[Dejounte]

Would people be okay with a high performing version of Aldridge off the bench for Poeltl? Because maybe that's what we would be getting if the interest is real. Imagine Vucevic dropping 20 a night off the bench for us.

[Dejounte]

Maybe Eubanks traumatized Pop so much that they're considering options like this. I don't feel he's comfortable having Luka as a back up 5 and we have to get a backup 5 at some point. Can Vucevic set aside his ego and have a career turning point similar to when Rudy Gay signed with the Spurs up to now?

[Dejounte]

Just a few days ago I was thinking about two trades and decided to post about the Collins one instead (Collins and Gallinari for Aldridge, Walker, and whatever picks to make it even) but the second trade was this one:

ORL: Aldridge, Walker, Lyles, and whatever is appropriate/reasonable pick wise
SAS: Vucevic, Ennis, & Clark

As a part time Magic fan this really helps them with their cap situation and as a Spurs fan a second All Star to this team gets us back in business.

This is a good trade. I'd probably see if I can get Fournier instead of Ennis or Clark.

Lonnie idolized T-Mac, wears #1, knows what it's like to live in Florida, and the Magic probably sees some type of resemblance.

There's no bigger hole on the team than when Poeltl goes to the bench. We get destroyed hard when he's replaced by Eubanks or Aldridge (when he's off)

[ginobilized]

I can't believe that we have an actual hypothetical trade to discuss, dismantle, attack each other about and ultimately say it was doomed anyway.

It feels good to have some possibility of growth, though!

[exstatic]

Would people be okay with a high performing version of Aldridge off the bench for Poeltl? Because maybe that's what we would be getting if the interest is real. Imagine Vucevic dropping 20 a night off the bench for us.

Vucevic is an All Star this year, like he played in the game yesterday. He’s not going to want to come off the bench.

Here’s my thought on this. Getting vuvevic is going to be very expensive, like multiple young players, plus picks. He’s a current All Star. He’s also not a great fit. I’m not sure he moves the needle.

[Dejounte]

https://www.reddit.com/r/OrlandoMagic/comments/m0jhe2/with_all_the_rumors_that_vuc_is_getting_traded/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

Magic fans apparently like our young talent, specifically Vassell...

[LeBowen]

So was Aldridge. :downspin:

Who also joined when he was 30 and was great up until he turned 35.
We'd get an all-star on a really good deal for his 30-32 seasons.


Right on the money. I've been making this point for weeks and people here didn't get it. Ideally I'd still like to keep Poeltl as an off the bench big, since his D is really elite. He's a big reason why the bench group with Murray got the best Net-Rating in the NBA. But on the other hand, the team really needs a 3-point shooting big

Yeah, I love all the young guys, but something has to give. They're not a good fit together.
DJ/Keldon/Devin assuming Devin becomes an elite 3pt shooter and if we added another great 3pt shooter? Then we could play Poeltl.

Unless we see some nephew-like, miraculous improvements, either we get a 3pt shooting big, or we trade some of the young guys for actual shooters.
Vucevic isn't a great defender, but he's not awful. He's faster than LMA ever was and we can all agree that 2018 LMA would be an ideal fit with hypothetical DJ/Derrick/Devin/Keldon perimeter starting lineup.

Or as already mentioned, we could try for Turner, would be the perfect fit. Demar could probably be even more effective then. I don't think Demar signs a new deal if we get Vucevic.

Imo, 4 veterans, 2022 or 2023 1st rounder and Lonnie are expendable assets. That's way more than any other legit playoff team has right now, unless they're willing to trade key players.

[Chinook]

If the Spurs were trying to play an LMA-centric offense but couldn't because LMA is too old, then getting a younger version of him would make sense. But the style of play they employ now doesn't fit him or Vuc in basically the same way. I literally can't imagine this being a good trade unless the Spurs believe Vuc would explode in their system. Right now for no extra spending, they have a very good center rotation. Jakob is playing like one of the best defenders in the whole league (leads it in defensive RAPTOR, for example). This trade could easily make them worst, not even considering it just not improving them as much.

Gordon makes a good bit of sense, since he's a good fit this year and in a potential post-DeRozan era. I don't think Vuc makes sense unless the Spurs are also moving Jakob in another deal where he's bringing back more than they're spending on Vucevic.

[Dejounte]

If the Spurs were trying to play an LMA-centric offense but couldn't because LMA is too old, then getting a younger version of him would make sense. But the style of play they employ now doesn't fit him or Vuc in basically the same way. I literally can't imagine this being a good trade unless the Spurs believe Vuc would explode in their system. Right now for no extra spending, they have a very good center rotation. Jakob is playing like one of the best defenders in the whole league (leads it in defensive RAPTOR, for example). This trade could easily make them worst, not even considering it just not improving them as much.

Gordon makes a good bit of sense, since he's a good fit this year and in a potential post-DeRozan era. I don't think Vuc makes sense unless the Spurs are also moving Jakob in another deal where he's bringing back more than they're spending on Vucevic.

What's this "very good center rotation"?

Poeltl with Aldridge backing him up? The same Aldridge that can't be relied on to play five games in a row? The same Aldridge where if he's not scoring, he's providing absolutely nothing?

Poeltl by himself?

Poeltl with Eubanks backing up? Because lol?

[LeBowen]

If the Spurs were trying to play an LMA-centric offense but couldn't because LMA is too old, then getting a younger version of him would make sense.

He's a younger version if we talk spacing (even better spacer on 3pt line), but he's actually a really good passer. As we all know, LMA is one of the worst passers in the league. Full panic mode as soon as he sees the double team coming.
Vucevic has averaged 3.7 assists over the last 3 seasons. He could easily get 5 in our system.

To me, Gordon+Vucevic for Demar+assets would be a perfect trade for us. Gordon and Vucevic compliment eachother really well and would be a seamless fit with our young guards.

Again, I don't see Demar staying if Vucevic signs here. As good as he's been, defense and 3pt shooting are two key things in today's league. And he's awful at both. We either get someone like Turner or we get Vucevic and a legit PF like Gordon.

[TD 21]

Even though the Magic should trade Vucevic (and Gordon, Fournier, Ross), they'd probably have to be bowled over to actually do so and are unlikely to even contemplate it until the off season.

The Spurs are in position to make a consolidation type trade and he'd be a good fit all the way around; easily better than any other player they could feasibly attain.

But despite being a durable, skilled, below the rim big, who could conceivably have up to another near half decade of star caliber player left in him, he'd really only make sense if DeRozan is being retained.

If that is in the works (hopefully not at any rate, but 3/$90M?) and after seeing where the draft pick lands, they could offer Poeltl, Walker IV and something like a top 3-5 protected 1st. The Magic would more than likely counter with Vassell or another 1st. The Spurs could also offer to take Aminu's contract as a way of lessening the value of the final asset.

[Seventyniner]

I do think that the Magic will demand far more than the Spurs are willing to give for Vucevic. Even if Vucevic is an upgrade over Poeltl, I don't think it will be enough of one to justify sending out a bunch of assets.

Edit: also, Vucevic's 29.4 USG% would lead the Spurs by a mile (DeRozan: 23.6%), and is diametrically opposite that of the team-low Poeltl (12.5%). There is no way he would come off the bench, and would probably take touches away from everyone else. That would upend the entire Spurs' offensive system. That might not be terrible since the Spurs are 20th in ORtg, but losing DDR in the trade would offset much of the gain of getting Vucevic imo.

[spurspl]

orl would probably want a top pick or a young star + filler. trading for ddr or lma with lonnie doesnt make them better now or later. they can get much better return from other teams.

[TD 21]

I'm not necessarily advocating it, but the argument would be: Retaining up to 4 of the 5 core youth (with the one definite being upgraded), to play alongside 2 All-Star caliber players (I wouldn't classify DeRozan as such, but whatever), creating the makings of potentially a solid playoff team (5-6 type seed), which would make the picks not overly valuable odds wise.

The youth would be well positioned to play a significant role and in meaningful games, without having the burden of having to carry the team. Should one emerge as a star while the 2 All-Star caliber players remain in their prime, the team might graduate to pseudo contender status.

Outside of a glamour market, that's about the best you can do in this league short of extreme luck, which franchises like this are unwilling to operate based off of.



I do think that the Magic will demand far more than the Spurs are willing to give for Vucevic. Even if Vucevic is an upgrade over Poeltl, I don't think it will be enough of one to justify sending out a bunch of assets.

Edit: also, Vucevic's 29.4 USG% would lead the Spurs by a mile (DeRozan: 23.6%), and is diametrically opposite that of the team-low Poeltl (12.5%). There is no way he would come off the bench, and would probably take touches away from everyone else. That would upend the entire Spurs' offensive system. That might not be terrible since the Spurs are 20th in ORtg, but losing DDR in the trade would offset much of the gain of getting Vucevic imo.

Context. No Isaac or Fultz, not much Fournier, gimpy Gordon and stretches without a legit PG/lead ball handler forced him into this role (and they're a severely limited offensive team when healthy).

We've seen DeRozan slash his usage for the greater good and there's no reason to think Vucevic wouldn't either.

[NASpurs]

I saw something from Kevin O Connor that the spurs might be interested in a guy named Alize Johnson, think he plays in the G league. Anyone know anything on him?

1368999342544142338

[Chinook]

I don't think folks realize how completely DeRozan is outplaying Vuc. I don't consider trading DeMar for Nik a win at all. And adding in like Poeltl and two firsts is ridiculous. I'm not saying Orlando wouldn't demand it, but they can take those demands somewhere else. Vuc is a solidly good player who gets the touches to look like a great player.

This sort of reminds me of people who wanted to trade LDN-Green for volume-scoring guards back in the day. I don't find spending a bunch more money, touches and assets to "upgrade" from Poeltl remotely interesting. The Spurs should use their assets elsewhere.

[TD 21]

DeRozan on a Vucevic less Magic makes even less sense than Vucevic on a DeRozan less Spurs. A Magic core of DeRozan, Isaac, Fultz desperately needs plus shooting at the other two starting spots to even have a chance to function offensively.

I more than likely wouldn't trade for Vucevic either, but those opposed to it are seemingly opposed to every realistic significant acquisition, as if they think this team will continue to stockpile and retain every draft pick, luck into a superstar in short order and be back in business as far as championship contention.

[Degoat]

Not that it means anything, but the other teams wanting Nikola don’t have much to offer the magic either that’s why I could see the spurs having a chance if they include Lonnie or a 1st

[PrimeMinister]

If the plan is to use Vucevic like a super sub/situational big like our boy Dejounte is proposing - the outgoing package needs to be proportional to how he will be used.

Agree that we are well suited to make an offer, so wait for the deadline to dangle LA’s expiring and a second or way future protected first/swap. Giving up a 23 first doesn’t sting like a 21, and at this time with the depth of the draft I wouldn’t be chomping at the bit to sell our spot.

I think there’s just some who get the taste of something new and want it so badly, not realizing that the dream scenario of creating a “5-6 seed pseudocontender” that is “about as good as a small market team can hope to do” is kinda where we already are right now, just minus our pick this summer and a rotation player with another year left before RFA. I will also absolutely continue to make the point that Jakob is a better fit for the surrounding roster and in any potential playoff scenario Vucevic will look borderline unplayable against capable offenses.

[RC_Drunkford]

Does it, though?

The Spurs unequivocally need more 3pt shooting - but not necessarily coming from the C position, and especially not if it comes at the cost of losing out on Jakob's elite defensive presence, which elevates the entire team around him. For one, unless he really, really can't get his foul troubles in check (which he's managed to do for the most part this season, at least compared to last one/the bubble), Poeltl is a starting-caliber player for sure, and benching him will greatly reduce his impact - and also weaken the main unit's defense, by a big margin. People sleep on it, but we don't really have all that good of a defensive SL: Dejounte is obviously the best of the bunch, and even he is prone to lapses and off-nights getting cooked by opposing guards; Lonnie needs no explanation; DeMar doesn't either; Keldon, while really strong against bigs and in general man-to-man, is a lousy team defender right now, and probably will take a few years to get better, if ever. Poeltl being there helps hide the entire SL's defensive woes, in the same way that having Bryn Forbes in the SL exacerbates the problem not only for him, but for the entire lineup.


you just missed the point and wrote an essay about it. Im not saying I want Vuc. I actually want Myles Turner, who’s at least as good if not better than Poeltl defensively while also being a 3-point shooter. You’re saying we don’t have enough good defenders out there, but neglecting the fact that we don’t have many consistent 3-point shooters out there either. DeRozan doesn’t really shoot 3s. Keldon % is bad and DJ shoots about 33%.

That’s why you need a stretch big, other wise teams will play you like OKC did and just pack the paint to force you into shooting jumpers. It’s not a coincidence that when Aldridge started shooting 3s last season, DeRozan had MJ like efficiency numbers cause he all of a sudden had way more room to operate. This team has plenty of players who thrive at driving to the rim, therefore you need a big who can stretch the floor. In an ideal scenario that big should of course also be mobile and a rim protector. It’s just that they are rare.

[Chinook]

Turner isn't actually better than Poeltl defensively. Never has been.

[RC_Drunkford]

I don't think folks realize how completely DeRozan is outplaying Vuc. I don't consider trading DeMar for Nik a win at all. And adding in like Poeltl and two firsts is ridiculous. I'm not saying Orlando wouldn't demand it, but they can take those demands somewhere else. Vuc is a solidly good player who gets the touches to look like a great player.

This sort of reminds me of people who wanted to trade LDN-Green for volume-scoring guards back in the day. I don't find spending a bunch more money, touches and assets to "upgrade" from Poeltl remotely interesting. The Spurs should use their assets elsewhere.

I agree. I wouldn’t even want to give up Walker or the 2021 pick. If he can be had for a 1st rounder and any package of Gay, Mills, Aldridge pull the trigger, but I wouldn’t overpay

[RC_Drunkford]

Turner isn't actually better than Poeltl defensively. Never has been.

well Poeltl has better advanced and rim protection stats while Turner averages more blocks and is runner up for DPOY. They both elite defenders, that’s all I‘m saying

[PrimeMinister]

I agree. I wouldn’t even want to give up Walker or the 2022 pick. If he can be had for a 1st rounder and any package of Gay, Mills, Aldridge pull the trigger, but I wouldn’t overpay

I almost want to say I value the 21 first more than Lonnie at this point, but with the nature of the draft you can’t say that with any level of certainty.

put it this way- with the spurs track record, and the depth of this draft, especially in the areas of our teams need, I’m not giving up the first. I don’t see any player becoming available that will warrant changing that opinion either.

magic are in a bit of a bind with the cap. If they want relief and a second rounder to swing at an international prospect or something, bring on Vucevic. But there’s no real serious conversation being had about firsts or rotation players IMHO.

[TD 21]

If the plan is to use Vucevic like a super sub/situational big like our boy Dejounte is proposing - the outgoing package needs to be proportional to how he will be used.

Agree that we are well suited to make an offer, so wait for the deadline to dangle LA’s expiring and a second or way future protected first/swap. Giving up a 23 first doesn’t sting like a 21, and at this time with the depth of the draft I wouldn’t be chomping at the bit to sell our spot.

I think there’s just some who get the taste of something new and want it so badly, not realizing that the dream scenario of creating a “5-6 seed pseudocontender” that is “about as good as a small market team can hope to do” is kinda where we already are right now, just minus our pick this summer and a rotation player with another year left before RFA. I will also absolutely continue to make the point that Jakob is a better fit for the surrounding roster and in any potential playoff scenario Vucevic will look borderline unplayable against capable offenses.

I repeatedly intimated I wasn't in favor and no, "we" are not already a solid playoff team or pseudo contender. "We" are a fringe playoff team that'll probably end up a lower seeded team in the play in and fail to qualify for the playoffs. That's where ever indicator (health, schedule, team metrics) is pointing.

I'll believe they're just going to turn the offense over to a group of youth who haven't shown themselves to be surefire featured types, when I see it.

[PrimeMinister]

I repeatedly intimated I wasn't in favor and no, "we" are not already a solid playoff team or pseudo contender. "We" are a fringe playoff team that'll probably end up a lower seeded team in the play in and fail to qualify for the playoffs. That's where ever indicator (health, schedule, team metrics) is pointing.

I'll believe they're just going to turn the offense over to a group of youth who haven't shown themselves to be surefire featured types, when I see it.

even if I agreed with your evaluation of our current team- I don’t think you can make the argument Vucevic and the package necessary to get him materially changes the reality of our team long term.

spurs are far more likely to offer a 1+1 or a 2 year deal to Demar than they are to start piecing out assets for a player like Vucevic.

[Chinook]

well Poeltl has better advanced and rim protection stats while Turner averages more blocks and is runner up for DPOY. They both elite defenders, that’s all I‘m saying

I agree that it's not worth it to split hairs. But I'd much rather pay to upgrade a different position, especially if it's cheaper than a Turner trade. DeRozan (as he's playing this season) is the only clear top-flight player on the team. Poeltl and Murray are fighting for second place. White is solidly there, but with his injuries and such, he's not a bona fide starter. Johnson is even more so. My priorities would be PF, SG, SF (because DeRozan can slide over one way or the other), C then PG (since White and Murray are a crazy-strong rotation).

[RC_Drunkford]

I almost want to say I value the 21 first more than Lonnie at this point, but with the nature of the draft you can’t say that with any level of certainty.

put it this way- with the spurs track record, and the depth of this draft, especially in the areas of our teams need, I’m not giving up the first. I don’t see any player becoming available that will warrant changing that opinion either.

magic are in a bit of a bind with the cap. If they want relief and a second rounder to swing at an international prospect or something, bring on Vucevic. But there’s no real serious conversation being had about firsts or rotation players IMHO.

yeah I see it the same way. With that deep of a draft class and the pick probably being in the low teens, I‘m not trading it. They could include the 2022 or 2023 pick though, that would make more sense

[Dejounte]

If the plan is to use Vucevic like a super sub/situational big like our boy Dejounte is proposing - the outgoing package needs to be proportional to how he will be used.

Agree that we are well suited to make an offer, so wait for the deadline to dangle LA’s expiring and a second or way future protected first/swap. Giving up a 23 first doesn’t sting like a 21, and at this time with the depth of the draft I wouldn’t be chomping at the bit to sell our spot.

I think there’s just some who get the taste of something new and want it so badly, not realizing that the dream scenario of creating a “5-6 seed pseudocontender” that is “about as good as a small market team can hope to do” is kinda where we already are right now, just minus our pick this summer and a rotation player with another year left before RFA. I will also absolutely continue to make the point that Jakob is a better fit for the surrounding roster and in any potential playoff scenario Vucevic will look borderline unplayable against capable offenses.

Because let's face it: worse case scenario for Poeltl's career is that he's in foul trouble for half the games and elite at defense for the other half. What if we had 48 minutes of elite center play with Vucecic being the yang to Poeltl's yin. How will the Spurs fare if Poeltl goes down with an injury that will cause him to miss 10 games? Seems a player who can fill that void will help the Spurs not miss a beat in the regular season. If we look at our guard situation, we are a lot more confident about the depth we have there than we ever would without a nice backup center. Whether that would be Vucevic, a future 4/5, Luka, Collins, or whoever. It's a serious need. We can't rely on Eubanks to be our starter if Poeltl goes down. Something's got to give.

[TD 21]

even if I agreed with your evaluation of our current team- I don’t think you can make the argument Vucevic and the package necessary to get him materially changes the reality of our team long term.

spurs are far more likely to offer a 1+1 or a 2 year deal to Demar than they are to start piecing out assets for a player like Vucevic

If your definition is true contender status, no. But every path is highly unlikely to yield that and the Spurs, like I'm sure every franchise in a non glamour market, would be thrilled if they could reach a tier below. It'd be unlikely they'd even reach that status, but not inconceivable.

They wouldn't bother wasting DeRozan's time with an offer for less than 3 years and again, the assets would be a positional upgrade (Poeltl), a replacement player (Walker IV) and non top 3-5 picks (protected).

[PrimeMinister]

Because let's face it: worse case scenario for Poeltl's career is that he's in foul trouble for half the games and elite at defense for the other half. What if we had 48 minutes of elite center play with Vucecic being the yang to Poeltl's yin. How will the Spurs fare if Poeltl goes down with an injury that will cause him to miss 10 games? Seems a player who can fill that void will help the Spurs not miss a beat in the regular season. If we look at our guard situation, we are a lot more confident about the depth we have there than we ever would without a nice backup center. Whether that would be Vucevic, a future 4/5, Luka, Collins, or whoever. It's a serious need. We can't rely on Eubanks to be our starter if Poeltl goes down. Something's got to give.

it’s clear he supplements the big man rotation. I don’t think there’s a discussion to be had otherwise.

We can also supplement our front court in other ways. We don’t have to give up picks and players to do that and I have 0 real reason to think Vucevic necessitates even considering it.

[Dejounte]

yeah I see it the same way. With that deep of a draft class and the pick probably being in the low teens, I‘m not trading it. They could include the 2022 or 2023 pick though, that would make more sense

Maybe look first at the prospects before you call it deep. It's looking like a shitty draft past the 10th.