Stein: Chatter Circulating About The Spurs' Attempts To "Barge" Their Way Into Simmons Sweepstakes

[Leetonidas]

Somehow it all seems perfectly fitting that the same guy who questioned whether the earth was really round a few years ago (and then chastised the press for talking about it) is now the self appointed spokesperson for the unvaccinated.
the dumbest thing is that supposedly it's not because he's anti-vax but because he is making a statement for the "voiceless" who are losing their jobs for not getting vaccinated :lmao

tbh i dont really think the crowd that is vehemently anti-vax wants someone like Kyrie speaking for them to begin with

[baseline bum]

scratch that one

1448189300848226305

LMAO this faggot is an antivaxxtard? :rollin

Yeah that trade value keeps getting better.

[exstatic]

Anyone think that there could be a Simmons for Kylie deal at some point? Would get both teams what they are looking for, 76 get a star player and nets get a player that is vaccinated and can play.

Supposedly, Kyrie said he’d retire if they trade him. It does seem like an even trade of malcontents, though, doesn’t it?

Edit: scratch that. Ben couldn’t play in BKN, either.

[JuneJive]

The Sixers front office doesn't appear to be moved by the prospect of landing Dejounte Murray and Lonnie Walker IV from San Antonio.

- Fischer, BR

[SpurSpike]

The Sixers front office doesn't appear to be moved by the prospect of landing Dejounte Murray and Lonnie Walker IV from San Antonio.

- Fischer, BR

Figured that was why we didn't see those 2 in the HEB commercial preview. They are on the block for possible trades.

[SpurSpike]

Supposedly, Kyrie said he’d retire if they trade him. It does seem like an even trade of malcontents, though, doesn’t it?

Edit: scratch that. Ben couldn’t play in BKN, either.

Maybe he would get vaccinated to escape the situation he is in, who knows though.

[manufan10]

1448313556756279297


"No team has come close to the asking price set by Daryl Morey and the 76ers as they seek a star on the level of Damian Lillard or Bradley Beal."

[R. DeMurre]

Man, those are going to be some awkward practice sessions in Philly.

[TimDunkem]

The Sixers front office doesn't appear to be moved by the prospect of landing Dejounte Murray and Lonnie Walker IV from San Antonio.

- Fischer, BR
Shocker! They suck.

[manufan10]

1448327942795366400

[Seventyniner]

The Sixers front office doesn't appear to be moved by the prospect of landing Dejounte Murray and Lonnie Walker IV from San Antonio.

- Fischer, BR

Presumably the Spurs made an offer centering around those two. That's the core of what I would be willing to give up: Murray/Walker/Young/1st, maybe add one pick swap and salary ballast as necessary.

[Seventyniner]

1448313556756279297


"No team has come close to the asking price set by Daryl Morey and the 76ers as they seek a star on the level of Damian Lillard or Bradley Beal."

btw the Spurs are one of the 9 teams.

1448289144854261769

[Degoat]

I think the Murray, Lonnie, Thad young, plus a first is the spurs offer. Honestly if we don’t have to give up any of Keldon, Primo, or Vassell I might up the offer as long as those guys aren’t involved

[SpurSpike]

Strange that the Spurs would cut Luka so early when they could have waited a few days to see if a trade goes through. We would actually need to fill some roster spots if by some (perhaps unwanted) miracle a Simmons trade does go through.

[kht]

I think the Murray, Lonnie, Thad young, plus a first is the spurs offer. Honestly if we don’t have to give up any of Keldon, Primo, or Vassell I might up the offer as long as those guys aren’t involved

FUCK NO... am I parting with Murray to overpay for Simmons. I'd give them Walker, Thad, and a first. Murray is a bonafide Spur.

[exstatic]

Strange that the Spurs would cut Luka so early when they could have waited a few days to see if a trade goes through. We would actually need to fill some roster spots if by some (perhaps unwanted) miracle a Simmons trade does go through.

Luka has been roster filler for two years. Waiting past 31 October obligates them for another $4M for next year. Surely they can fill a roster spot with a different scrub cheaper than that.

[NASpurs]

The Sixers front office doesn't appear to be moved by the prospect of landing Dejounte Murray and Lonnie Walker IV from San Antonio.

- Fischer, BR

Can't blame them tbh.

[rjv]

Strange that the Spurs would cut Luka so early when they could have waited a few days to see if a trade goes through. We would actually need to fill some roster spots if by some (perhaps unwanted) miracle a Simmons trade does go through.


it wouldn't be strange if the spurs already knew that the simmons ship has already sailed.

[talkspurs]

That doesn't mean anything. Your point was that Simmons being the 19th-highest-paid player is too much for a second option. I'm assuming you mean second option on a contender, since he'd the the best player on this team any many others. The issue is that contenders have multiple players making more than Ben and if they don't it's only because their guys are on rookie deals or maxes that keep their salary lower than Simmons. Like for Utah, both of their best players are going to be on huge maxes. Their deals just happen to not be bigger than Simmons' this season. Denver signed Jokic earlier, and Murray signed the same contract but didn't meet the requires ... because he's not as good as Simmons. If the Spurs draft some superstar and also trade for Simmons or get Simmons and bring in some guy making more money or whatever, it wouldn't be a big deal for Ben to be on his contract. You can't moneyball in the NBA. It doesn't work. You pay out the nose and you gun for it when you can. Ultimately, even a marginal increase is worth a ton of money in a league with a soft cap and max contracts.

You are correct I did mean on contenders. I also dont think he would be the best player on this team but we vastly disagree one how good he is. I also dont see teams with several players on this list that have not made it to conference finals. Most that have 2 have even made it to the conference finals. First team I see that has 2 that has not done much would be timber wolves and they have a year together. Druss was also considered overpaid when he signed his contract.

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

I also dont think he would be the best player on this team

who on the spurs is better than b simmons?

[slick'81]

Yea sixers arent dealing simmons for a package around dejounte. Regardless of what we feel ben's value is morey isnt dumping him for our peanuts

[diego]

I think the Murray, Lonnie, Thad young, plus a first is the spurs offer. Honestly if we don’t have to give up any of Keldon, Primo, or Vassell I might up the offer as long as those guys aren’t involved

white should be part of the offer, one to make it plausible and two because his feet are a time bomb.

simmons wouldnt really improve the teams outlook that much but i'd rather pay him the max the next 4 years than have even more money tied up in murray and white even if he isnt the sharpest tool in the shed...

[offset formation]

white should be part of the offer, one to make it plausible and two because his feet are a time bomb.

simmons wouldnt really improve the teams outlook that much but i'd rather pay him the max the next 4 years than have even more money tied up in murray and white even if he isnt the sharpest tool in the shed...

I've been saying his ankles are like jello since 2017-2018 season due to his walk. I love his competitiveness, but his wheels are most definitely prone to going flat. And they absolutely will at some point over the next yr or two and cost him substantial missed PT.

From that perspective alone, I ship him.

[exstatic]

white should be part of the offer, one to make it plausible and two because his feet are a time bomb.

simmons wouldnt really improve the teams outlook that much but i'd rather pay him the max the next 4 years than have even more money tied up in murray and white even if he isnt the sharpest tool in the shed...

His ankles are a time bomb, but he needs to be included to make the offer credible…

Do some of you even read your posts before hitting the post button?

[mo7888]

Nets open to significant offers for Kyrie Irving? ��
ShamsCharania: "I think rival teams right now feel that Brooklyn is at least open to hearing any types of significant offers. I think everything’s on the table at this point."

(via The Glue Guy Podcast on Spotify)

[John B]

Yea sixers arent dealing simmons for a package around dejounte. Regardless of what we feel ben's value is morey isnt dumping him for our peanuts

DJ is actually playing good basketball right now, his jumpers are falling, really worked hard on them over the Summer, and he has that focus in him (looks like he is proving his naysayers amidst the trade talks) . I wouldn’t be surprised if Sixers take a 2nd look. To me he’s a very good player who can help the Sixers forward, plus Young’s vet experience and defense, the good prospect on Lonnie becoming a very good player, plus Bulls 1st pick. I think Spurs’ offer beats everybody else’s, imo.

[exstatic]

DJ is actually playing good basketball right now, his jumpers are falling, really worked hard on them over the Summer, and he has that focus in him (looks like he is proving his naysayers amidst the trade talks) . I wouldn’t be surprised if Sixers take a 2nd look. To me he’s a very good player who can help the Sixers forward, plus Young’s vet experience and defense, the good prospect on Lonnie becoming a very good player, plus Bulls 1st pick. I think Spurs’ offer beats everybody else’s, imo.

Sacramento took their top 2 players off the table, as did Minny. We’re the only ones offering a top or top two player.

Lonnie probably isn’t of much interest to the, other than maybe a local boy makes good gate draw. He looks to top out at bench scoring punch at this point.

[talkspurs]

who on the spurs is better than b simmons?

DJM is
KJ probably will be.
we have a lot of young players so who knows which of them will break out.

[John B]

DJM is
KJ probably will be.
we have a lot of young players so who knows which of them will break out.

Don’t get your hate on Simmons cloud your judgement :lol Simmons is 3x All-Star, 2x All NBA Defensive Team. Right now, nobody in Spurs is better than him, maybe potentially but not right now :lol:lol:lol

[UnWantedTheory]

DJM is
KJ probably will be.
we have a lot of young players so who knows which of them will break out.
If DJ was actually better than Simmons why wouldn't Philly jump at taking him?

[The Truth #6]

DJ has looked improved. I know everyone is talking about Primo but this could be DJ’s year. Not expecting a huge leap, but I expect this to be his best year. But hey, we’ll see.

[slick'81]

DJ is actually playing good basketball right now, his jumpers are falling, really worked hard on them over the Summer, and he has that focus in him (looks like he is proving his naysayers amidst the trade talks) . I wouldn’t be surprised if Sixers take a 2nd look. To me he’s a very good player who can help the Sixers forward, plus Young’s vet experience and defense, the good prospect on Lonnie becoming a very good player, plus Bulls 1st pick. I think Spurs’ offer beats everybody else’s, imo.


We will see jb

[rjv]

i would think that the play of simmons, along with the records of either the blazers or wizards around the month of December will have an impact on how this all plays out.

[exstatic]

i would think that the play of simmons, along with the records of either the blazers or wizards around the month of December will have an impact on how this all plays out.

Wizards will suck, but they won’t trade Beal. Blazers will be in the playoff hunt, and if Dame wanted out, he would have asked by now. The determining factor will be when Morey realizes that he’s not getting 3 first rounders and 3 pick swaps.

[rjv]

Wizards will suck, but they won’t trade Beal. Blazers will be in the playoff hunt, and if Dame wanted out, he would have asked by now. The determining factor will be when Morey realizes that he’s not getting 3 first rounders and 3 pick swaps.

a very likely scenario but clouding the future of how this unfolds. of course, morey is full of himself so his own hubris will also be a factor.

[baseline bum]

DJ has looked improved. I know everyone is talking about Primo but this could be DJ’s year. Not expecting a huge leap, but I expect this to be his best year. But hey, we’ll see.

I'm expecting a pretty big leap since he's the best player on the team now and someone has to score. Of course a mostly empty stat leap that'll make everyone overrate the hell out of him.

[Chinook]

So Murray always plays well in the preseason. Remember, he looked great before he tore his ACL back in 2018. We should all hope he does fade back into mediocrity or net-negativity like he has done the last two seasons. But he has a long way to go to reach the All-NBA level Simmons basically came out of the womb at. They haven't been close historically, and despite "eye-testing" aspects one can point to, Murray's yet to markedly improve his impact on the court from his sophomore year. Scoring 25 points on middle efficiency while dominating the ball and having a negative net-rating isn't the goal. His issues have literally never been about how much he touched the ball or what option he was offensively. So he's going to have to improve well beyond any leap he's ever taken before anyone can compare him to Simmons.

Let's hope that happens, as I don't see any benefit to wanting him not to succeed.

[spurraider21]

wonder what it would take for chinook to get on the murray > white train

[The Truth #6]

So Murray always plays well in the preseason. Remember, he looked great before he tore his ACL back in 2018. We should all hope he does fade back into mediocrity or net-negativity like he has done the last two seasons. But he has a long way to go to reach the All-NBA level Simmons basically came out of the womb at. They haven't been close historically, and despite "eye-testing" aspects one can point to, Murray's yet to markedly improve his impact on the court from his sophomore year. Scoring 25 points on middle efficiency while dominating the ball and having a negative net-rating isn't the goal. His issues have literally never been about how much he touched the ball or what option he was offensively. So he's going to have to improve well beyond any leap he's ever taken before anyone can compare him to Simmons.

Let's hope that happens, as I don't see any benefit to wanting him not to succeed.

IIRC, he was dog shit last preseason, which gives some context for my thought that he was looking better. But overall, yeah, BS is a much more dynamic talent.

[scott]

DJ > Simons for the simple fact DJ doesn’t have to be benched in the clutch

[Chinook]

IIRC, he was dog shit last preseason, which gives some context for my thought that he was looking better. But overall, yeah, BS is a much more dynamic talent.

I did basically forget that there was a pre-season last year. But in terms of the regular season, he definitely played better in the first half than the second. It's clear he works really hard during the off-season on becoming a better one-on-one scorer. Those efforts pay off in an eye-test sense at least. But he also tends to fade as the rest of the team adjusts to the year. Maybe that was something due to vets needing time to reestablish themselves. Or maybe it's because of young players adjusting. Dunno. But I do know that the Spurs will need him to be consistently good if they're going to stay out of the basement, in addition to all the other factors.

[Chinook]

wonder what it would take for chinook to get on the murray > white train

I know you think everyone loves White because of a playoff game or whatever. But Derrick's been better than Murray for years now, and that didn't stop just because he got hurt. I don't mean that "I'm holding out hope that White can have a healthy season and show he's better than Murray." I mean, "Even with his injuries, White is better than Murray." An idealized game-whatever version of White that you think people are clinging to would be a superstar. No one expects him to be that -- definitely more people expect Murray to be that guy on this forum. What I think most people are hoping for is a guy in the 18ppg range with good shooting, play-making and All-Defense --caliber play on that end. It would be nice if he were in the low-20s -- that might make him good enough to be an All-Star in a weak year. But don't confuse me with a guy who thought White was the best player on the team the last couple of years.

Anyway, I don't hate Murray by any means. We've gone over this. I think he'd be great on another team. I think the team should trade him, but they should also get a high price for him, because he's a good player who doesn't fit on the roster. That's not a White thing though. Even if Derrick were traded, I'd still think Murray would need to be moved. That's because of his relationship with the team and its culture, not so that White can be a star or whatever. All that said, DeJounte's been through a lot recently. I wouldn't want the team to force him in a deal right now. A good deal that puts him in a good situation and gives the Spurs a good return? Sure. But if Pop wants DJM to be there for his last season, that's okay too.

Still, he and White don't have my trust as a starting duo. If Murray is going to be on the team and if White is going to be shaky, then Derrick needs to come off the bench and at least one of the many two-guard prospects the team has should be starting instead.

[spurraider21]

I know you think everyone loves White because of a playoff game or whatever. But Derrick's been better than Murray for years now, and that didn't stop just because he got hurt. I don't mean that "I'm holding out hope that White can have a healthy season and show he's better than Murray." I mean, "Even with his injuries, White is better than Murray." An idealized game-whatever version of White that you think people are clinging to would be a superstar. No one expects him to be that -- definitely more people expect Murray to be that guy on this forum. What I think most people are hoping for is a guy in the 18ppg range with good shooting, play-making and All-Defense --caliber play on that end. It would be nice if he were in the low-20s -- that might make him good enough to be an All-Star in a weak year. But don't confuse me with a guy who thought White was the best player on the team the last couple of years.

Anyway, I don't hate Murray by any means. We've gone over this. I think he'd be great on another team. I think the team should trade him, but they should also get a high price for him, because he's a good player who doesn't fit on the roster. That's not a White thing though. Even if Derrick were traded, I'd still think Murray would need to be moved. That's because of his relationship with the team and its culture, not so that White can be a star or whatever. All that said, DeJounte's been through a lot recently. I wouldn't want the team to force him in a deal right now. A good deal that puts him in a good situation and gives the Spurs a good return? Sure. But if Pop wants DJM to be there for his last season, that's okay too.

Still, he and White don't have my trust as a starting duo. If Murray is going to be on the team and if White is going to be shaky, then Derrick needs to come off the bench and at least one of the many two-guard prospects the team has should be starting instead.
Derrick just hasn't looked right for a while now, and not just from a health standpoint. He lacks confidence with the ball and generally looks shaky when trying to get his. Main improvement has been the quicker release on outside shots but they haven't really been falling anyway. His defense hasn't really been difference making for a while now either.

If you asked me this question a year ago or more, I think i was always pretty consistent that I thought White was the better player, but I don't feel that way anymore, and they really appear to be on different trajectories. Murray's defense is better right now (his DRPM was substantially higher than White's), and he's added to his offense each year, whereas White has been stuck in neutral at best.

[Proxy]

DJ is not a better player than Simmons lmao

[talkspurs]

Don’t get your hate on Simmons cloud your judgement :lol Simmons is 3x All-Star, 2x All NBA Defensive Team. Right now, nobody in Spurs is better than him, maybe potentially but not right now :lol:lol:lol

Simmons is overrated. get him on a team where he is the main player and it will become obvious.

[talkspurs]

If DJ was actually better than Simmons why wouldn't Philly jump at taking him?

Because they want more and overvalue him. They think they can get an AD or better package. no one has come even close. If he was as good as Philly has been trying to say dont you think there would be multiple teams paying what they wanted. 29 teams have not been willing to pay what they are asking none have even been close to meeting it.

[exstatic]

Because they want more and overvalue him. They think they can get an AD or better package. no one has come even close. If he was as good as Philly has been trying to say dont you think there would be multiple teams paying what they wanted. 29 teams have not been willing to pay what they are asking none have even been close to meeting it.

Teams won’t pay what they want, because Ben wants out, and that destroys any leverage Philly might have.

[XDT76]

Teams won’t pay what they want, because Ben wants out, and that destroys any leverage Philly might have.

Teams won't pay what Philly wants is because he has no outside game and has poor FT, its just like Houston does not wants Ben Simmons for James Harden even when James wants out.

[talkspurs]

Teams won’t pay what they want, because Ben wants out, and that destroys any leverage Philly might have.

AD, Paul george, Harden seemed to get good returns even though they wanted out. AD was sitting out. Harden was intentionally playing poor and I think George was threatening to sit out.

[lmbebo]

AD, Paul george, Harden seemed to get good returns even though they wanted out. AD was sitting out. Harden was intentionally playing poor and I think George was threatening to sit out.

Paul George asked out, but didn't threaten I think. Kwahi forced Clippers into it and for them to open the bank. If they wanted him, they had to go get George, no matter the cost.

[Chillen]

Teams won’t pay what they want, because Ben wants out, and that destroys any leverage Philly might have.

Exactly. They think they can get Lillard for him lol and Taylor Swift will show up out of the blue and sit on my lap. If Nets offer them Irving they need to take that because it's the best return they can get for him in regards to better talent. Of course who knows if Irving will ever play bball again.

[UnWantedTheory]

Because they want more and overvalue him. They think they can get an AD or better package. no one has come even close. If he was as good as Philly has been trying to say dont you think there would be multiple teams paying what they wanted. 29 teams have not been willing to pay what they are asking none have even been close to meeting it.

No, because they don't have leverage. There aren't many teams able to begin with. Again, if Murray was actually better than Simmons our name would have never been mentioned.

[talkspurs]

No, because they don't have leverage. There aren't many teams able to begin with. Again, if Murray was actually better than Simmons our name would have never been mentioned.

look at the other players that the teams did not have leverage and yet they still got a good package. Ben is not as good or valued around the league.

[exstatic]

AD, Paul george, Harden seemed to get good returns even though they wanted out. AD was sitting out. Harden was intentionally playing poor and I think George was threatening to sit out.

New Orleans sat AD, because the situation was becoming a distraction. The NBAPA then forced the issue to at least play him minutes. Turns out the Pels were right. It was a distraction. The home fans booed him when he played his 10 minutes per game.

[talkspurs]

New Orleans sat AD, because the situation was becoming a distraction. The NBAPA then forced the issue to at least play him minutes. Turns out the Pels were right. It was a distraction. The home fans booed him when he played his 10 minutes per game.

but if your saying 76ers have no power it is a similar situation. They still got a good package out of it for him. noone wants to give up a similar package for Ben. not even close. He is not as good as people on here want to say he is. If he was he would have been gone a long time ago.

[Leetonidas]

AD, Paul george, Harden seemed to get good returns even though they wanted out. AD was sitting out. Harden was intentionally playing poor and I think George was threatening to sit out.

Those are all vastly superior players to Simmons and George's case was unique since the Clips needed to get him for Kawhi so in a sense it wasn't just PG for all those assets

[John B]

New Orleans sat AD, because the situation was becoming a distraction. The NBAPA then forced the issue to at least play him minutes. Turns out the Pels were right. It was a distraction. The home fans booed him when he played his 10 minutes per game.

Pelican fans are bunnies compared to Sixers fans. Simmons will get booed and it will be a distraction. Morey wants to show he’s the one in-charge, but ultimately he would have to give in, or he’ll soon see Embiid also asking out to findi a better situation.

[talkspurs]

Those are all vastly superior players to Simmons and George's case was unique since the Clips needed to get him for Kawhi so in a sense it wasn't just PG for all those assets


But but but Ben is a 3 time all star and 2 time Defense team. Your actually kinda helping my point that he is overrated.

[Chinook]

But but but Ben is a 3 time all star and 2 time Defense team. Your actually kinda helping my point that he is overrated.

I think your issue is more that you're overrating Murray. Simmons is a multi-time all that stuff, but even if he's not as good as the top-five or top-10 guys, Murray is many tiers below them. Like I would say Simmons is a second- or third-tier guy while Harden is a first. Murray is optimistically a fourth-tier guy but has played like a sixth-tier guy. Simmons can be overrated and still be a superior player. The ideas aren't mutually exclusive

[XDT76]

Stop saying a guy is good just because he is a multiple times all star. For all of Duncan's career Spurs has never had 3 all stars and there were even seasons in his prime where Spurs only have one. The Utah has 3 this past season, so does that mean that last year's Utah will wipe every single Duncan's team?

[talkspurs]

Stop saying a guy is good just because he is a multiple times all star. For all of Duncan's career Spurs has never had 3 all stars and there were even seasons in his prime where Spurs only have one. The Utah has 3 this past season, so does that mean that last year's Utah will wipe every single Duncan's team?

Simmons is not a top player on a top team. He is at most a complementary player. He probably thinks to much of him self to where I dont even know if he can be that. This is why I say you are over estimating him. By you calling Murray someone that plays like a 6th but is a 4th really shows how much you under vale him. I knew you were doing this by you other post but it is even more then I thought. Im bad at searching for threads but I hope someone brings this up at the end of the season.

[R. DeMurre]

I don't think it makes sense to keep comparing Simmons and Murray. Simmons is a max guy making double the salary of Murray. He's supposed to be better. I'd say the question is whether pairing Murray with a future #1 option would make more sense than trying to find a complementary player to pair with Simmons. It's close, but I think it does. Simmons had trouble sharing the court with a prime Jimmy Butler plus an MVP level center, and I don't think he's aggressive enough to build an offense around like Milwaukee did with Giannis. Hate to bring up bad memories, but in an alternate universe, the starting line up of the Spurs would feature Murray, White, and Kawhi... and that could be a championship worthy trio.

[XDT76]

Simmons is not a top player on a top team. He is at most a complementary player. He probably thinks to much of him self to where I dont even know if he can be that. This is why I say you are over estimating him. By you calling Murray someone that plays like a 6th but is a 4th really shows how much you under vale him. I knew you were doing this by you other post but it is even more then I thought. Im bad at searching for threads but I hope someone brings this up at the end of the season.

Since when did i overestimate Ben Simmons? My stance on him is that he back off challenges and cannot be depend on in clutch. Also when did i mention anything about Murray being a 6th?

[tbdog]

Simmons is not a top player on a top team. He is at most a complementary player. He probably thinks to much of him self to where I dont even know if he can be that. This is why I say you are over estimating him. By you calling Murray someone that plays like a 6th but is a 4th really shows how much you under vale him. I knew you were doing this by you other post but it is even more then I thought. Im bad at searching for threads but I hope someone brings this up at the end of the season.

I don't know. Ben Wallace was like the leader of the pistons. And simmons is a much better player.

[talkspurs]

Since when did i overestimate Ben Simmons? My stance on him is that he back off challenges and cannot be depend on in clutch. Also when did i mention anything about Murray being a 6th?

That was meant to reply to chinock

[talkspurs]

I don't know. Ben Wallace was like the leader of the pistons. And simmons is a much better player.

They are different players. I also dont think Wallace ever got the max he could but I could be wrong. I would say wallace was actually the better player. Both were bad on offense and simmons can pass but wallace was much better on defense. He actually could anchor a defense.

[SAGirl]

Saw a tweet tha today he worked out with the Sixers…. Awkward

[Mr. Body]

Saw a tweet tha today he worked out with the Sixers…. Awkward

Simmons and Klutch played this very badly.

[dokdok]

There was no precedent with someone of his caliber, on a title-contending team, with that long of a contract to ask out. I imagine this would've happened sooner rather than later. If not Simmons it would have been someone else.

[Proxy]

There was no precedent with someone of his caliber, on a title-contending team, with that long of a contract to ask out. I imagine this would've happened sooner rather than later. If not Simmons it would have been someone else.

ridiculous, Doc and the team and the fans all took a shit on him. Whether he deserved that ridicule or not, there's absolutely precedence for Simmons to want out

[tbdog]

Yeah. They put him under the bus and have teased to trade him the last season. He is getting the the 2nd best player on a team on a max contract treatment. We saw that with LMA with us. And look at Porzingis in dallas. Brown in Celtics. Difference is that their coaches haven't put them under the bus. So i understand he wants out. But klutch has handled that poorly.

[Dverde]

Coming back looks more pathetic IMO. Then someone leaked a story about him trying to get out of a playoff game using Covid exposure…that’s not going to raise his stock

[Mr. Body]

ridiculous, Doc and the team and the fans all took a shit on him. Whether he deserved that ridicule or not, there's absolutely precedence for Simmons to want out

No one ridiculed him. They just said he shouldn't suck.

[lefty20]

No one ridiculed him. They just said he shouldn't suck.

To the media... You just don't do that in a league where players are know to be bigger divas than the chicks in WWE.

[exstatic]

No one ridiculed him. They just said he shouldn't suck.

That’s ridicule.

[mo7888]

Looks like Ayton is gonna be the next guy we talk about trading for (or signing next offseason) I'd Spurs Twitter is any indication..

[CGD]

Looks like Ayton is gonna be the next guy we talk about trading for (or signing next offseason) I'd Spurs Twitter is any indication..

Read my mind. I’d even just offer the max sheet next summer to mess with the Sarver.

[Seventyniner]

Read my mind. I’d even just offer the max sheet next summer to mess with the Sarver.

The Suns would still save money if they match a max offer sheet next year rather than offering their own max now. It's stupid to penny-pinch like that and piss off a key player, but this is Sarver we're talking about.

[John B]

The Suns would still save money if they match a max offer sheet next year rather than offering their own max now. It's stupid to penny-pinch like that and piss off a key player, but this is Sarver we're talking about.

Well you just never do that with your future face of the franchise. Suns needed to show they’re fully invested in him.

[exstatic]

Well you just never do that with your future face of the franchise. Suns needed to show they’re fully invested in him.

He’s not a franchise player, despite the fact that he was a #1 pick. He’s neither a defensive or an offensive force, and he’s played 3 seasons, enough to show at least one of those.

[99 Problems]

Yer, looks like Ayton is coming. Just have to show some patience tbh.

[Realdeal1]

I’m down with the Spurs offering Ayton a max contract next year to mess with the Suns…I also wouldn’t mind Ayton on this spurs team

[cd98]

Spurs are not going to offer Ayton a max contract. It will tie up their ability to get other free agents and the Suns are going to match any contract. Why bother when you know you have zero chance of getting him and you risk missing out on the players you can get.

[exstatic]

I’m down with the Spurs offering Ayton a max contract next year to mess with the Suns…I also wouldn’t mind Ayton on this spurs team

Ayton is a 7ft version of Lonnie Walker. Giving him a MAX deal will hamstring any franchise for half a decade.

[Leetonidas]

Ayton is a 7ft version of Lonnie Walker. Giving him a MAX deal will hamstring any franchise for half a decade.

No way. Ayton may not be worth the max, but he is the biggest reason they were in the Finals last season besides CP3. Walker will never even sniff that kind of impact

[BatManu20]

And so it begins :lol. Trade this clown already. Just creating a toxic work environment.

1450495115328475146


1450496839002714112

[BatManu20]

1450497581482528772

[manufan10]

1450498646315786249

:lmao

[Dejounte]

This will be a good HBO special one day.

[Dverde]

Actually Team Ben Simmons. He deserved the blame, they blamed, he said trade me, they said okay we’ll see. They get good not great offers. Team says never mind, show up. Not like Simmons is nephew trying to get to two LA teams. Bruh said he’d play in Minnesota.

[baseline bum]

He’s not a franchise player, despite the fact that he was a #1 pick. He’s neither a defensive or an offensive force, and he’s played 3 seasons, enough to show at least one of those.

Still someone who will probably end up a borderline all-star. I think he's worth a 25% max salary. But like someone else posted in the NBA forum (forget who), probably not a guy you'll want to give a 30% max salary to on his third contract once he starts nearing 30. But for now he's worth maxing IMO. Not an elite interior scorer, rebounder, nor defender but still pretty good at all three.

[mo7888]

I love this...BS deteriorating his trade value even more...lol

[Leetonidas]

Who could've seen this coming :lol :lol

Morey and Doc man, friggin amateur hour up there in Philly

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/nbadraftwass/status/1450501879729999885?s=21

[manufan10]

1450504094003642376

[baseline bum]

Actually Team Ben Simmons. He deserved the blame, they blamed, he said trade me, they said okay we’ll see. They get good not great offers. Team says never mind, show up. Not like Simmons is nephew trying to get to two LA teams. Bruh said he’d play in Minnesota.

Still chickenshit pulling this with four years left on a max deal. If he would have handled things professionally with the Sixers front office they probably would have fired Coc for throwing him under the bus. But instead he thinks they should take back $35 million worth of crap so he can have his money and play elsewhere. Don't sign a fucking contract you're not willing to honor when it's guaranteed.

[Leetonidas]

Not sure if this was mentioned or not but Brogdon's extension means he cant be traded this season, so there goes another potential suitor for Philly because they overplayed their hand :lol

[baseline bum]

I love this...BS deteriorating his trade value even more...lol

Can't really steal him anymore with Aminu's $10 million expiring salary slot gone.

[John B]

Sixers coach Doc Rivers threw Ben Simmons out of practice today and the suspension came shortly thereafter, sources tell ESPN per Adrian Woj

Morey is just delaying the inevitable

[NASpurs]

https://media.giphy.com/media/6pJNYBYSMFod2/giphy.gif

[BatManu20]

Dude is a cancer tbh.

1450509162874474497

[Degoat]

I think I’m with Ben Simmons on this one tbh he asked the 76ers to trade and they refused and then took his money so he had to act out to force there hand

[RD2191]

How has Morey not traded this dude yet? It's over, he has to know he's not going to come anywhere close to winning this trade.

[John B]

If Morey’s intention is to repair the relationship with Simmons, that ship has long sailed. What is Morey thinking at this point? Still waiting for the highest bidder? Which teams are still on the play with NBA starting today? Is Spurs still engaged?

[Spursfanfromafar]

The joker in all this nonsensical drama is Daryl Morey. Lol, what a dunce of a GM.

[Dverde]

Morey is slime. He belongs with Snake oil salesman DocRivers. Morey also leaks shit to NBA “jounalists” like Zack Lowe so they slobber all over him on their podcasts

[mo7888]

Can't really steal him anymore with Aminu's $10 million expiring salary slot gone.

I just wanna see Morey get bent over no matter who gets him...

[baseline bum]

I just wanna see Morey get bent over no matter who gets him...

Same here. Although for me it's seeing a big market glamor team like the Sixers have to eat the same shit sandwich that was served to the Spurs, Pelicans, Rockets, and Thunder without anyone giving a crap back then.

[Mr. Body]

Ben Simmons is a child. If you don't want to play basketball at a competitive level, go play Legos or something.

[manufan10]

1450520256431067138

[LeBowen]

Fuck that idiot,tbh.
Hopefully he never plays another NBA game.

[Proxy]

good for him I guess, lmao. It looked pathetic for him to attend, but it looks like he's not done playing hardball. Fuck Doc tbh, and Morey. I'd rather see them triggered by Simmons than anything at this point.

[poopbox]

I think I’m with Ben Simmons on this one tbh he asked the 76ers to trade and they refused and then took his money so he had to act out to force there hand

They didn't "take" his money. He was contractually obligated to show up at a certain point and he didn't, thus they did not have to pay him.

I can't believe anyone would want this whining crying baby on this team :lol

Ben's a straight up pussy. I bet he got a tampon on his mouth right now :lol

[Mr. Body]

Those who are blaming Morey and Doc have no idea what they're talking about.

[Chinook]

They didn't "take" his money. He was contractually obligated to show up at a certain point and he didn't, thus they did not have to pay him.

That's not actually what happened. A player not showing up is already subject to fines -- which Philly has levied. That they are trying to not pay him on top of that is above what the CBA lays out. That's so much more true now that Simmons is physically back with the team. What justification does Philly have for not giving him the money owed to him three weeks ago? Take out the fines -- sure. But he should've gotten the balance of it if what they said initially is true. It's feeling like it will go to court eventually, because Philly is going beyond the normal discipline procedures. You have to ask yourself, "For what?" at this point. If they're expecting this to compel Simmons to come in and make the Sixers a contender or whatever, it's not going to happen. Best-case scenario for him in that situation would be that Philly is playing well and Simmons isn't traded but the fans/media/front office are waiting for the team to disappoint to blame him. Morey is both treating him like shit and gold at the same time.

[BatManu20]

Team chemistry should be great this year :lol


1450506266594488332

[RD2191]

Those who are blaming Morey and Doc have no idea what they're talking about.
Actually we do, they're both idiots like you.

[BatManu20]

No way he isn’t traded in the very near future imo. Haven’t played a game yet and this is already a soap opera.

[rjv]

https://c.tenor.com/jpuKorTjmysAAAAM/practice-weainttalkinaboutthegame.gif

[Dverde]

No way he isn’t traded in the very near future imo. Haven’t played a game yet and this is already a soap opera.

Buddy Hield and company better start packing their bags…Spurs, Pacers are out. Guessing it’s going to be the Kings

[td4mvp2k]

76ers hurting themselves the way they are playing this and good for simmons for not playing their game

[SpurPadre]

Kawhi: "What's Simmons doing that's wrong?"

[baseline bum]

76ers hurting themselves the way they are playing this and good for simmons for not playing their game

Good for Simmons for not honoring his contract?

[td4mvp2k]

Good for Simmons for not honoring his contract?
he has that right

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Back when the snake was doing the same shit to the Spurs I was in the camp asking to keep him, fine him, even let him sit out a second season in a row, etc. but honestly this Philly-Simmons thing shows once again that the best solution is to trade as early as possible. Once it gets to such a stage there's no going back, ever.

[Chucho]

This is what tanking for an entire decade and whiffing on a record number of #1 picks gets you.

So funny to watch the lifers here who think tanking is the solution. Not for small market teams. For the handful of cities the NBA will never leave, it RARELY works, if you're a small market team, it's a blatant smack to the fanbase.

Tank to get a "No. 1 pick" who is a fringe All-Star (which is an accomplishment for #1s these days) that will pretend they're worth more than they are.

The NBA fucking blows. Parity is best for a sport because all fans actually buy into caring for their teams. Tanking rarely works and just decimates the legitimacy of "sport" while it flat out shits on the paying fanbase.

New York, Philly, Chicago...they get the goodwill from the networks. San Antonio and similar teams can't afford that. Either constrict the league or have a really fucking rotten time during the next Labor negotiations. The players, especially the over privileged like Kyrie and Ben Simmons here, are fucking over the next few generations of players. Hope the NBA fucking tanks in ratings and sales next year. It's a broken league that needs fixing.

[SPURt]

What Simmons is doing is still not as bad as what Kawhi did on his exit from SA. Kawhi held the FO hostage by demanding he go to LA teams and making it known he wouldn’t sign a contract anywhere else.

This Ben Simmons acting out at practice doesn’t matter. He made it known at the end of the season he wanted out to anywhere else. Hence Kings, Pacers, and Spurs being in the running to trade for him. The situation happening is all on Morey and Doc.

I wish Kawhi would’ve let the Spurs send him anywhere, they would’ve gotten more than DDR, Jak, and KJ.

[XDT76]

Said before you force him to come back he is gonna lose you much more games on a max contract. If Philly is a middling no where team, sure they can play with him all they want. However is Embiid gonna stick around the next 4 seasons to see how this drag out? Of course Philly can froze him out of NBA for the next four years but at what expense. His value is gonna tank even more for Philly as this drags out. He is getting his $40M for the next 4 years anyway.

[baseline bum]

he has that right

If the pos retires.

[exstatic]

Still chickenshit pulling this with four years left on a max deal. If he would have handled things professionally with the Sixers front office they probably would have fired Coc for throwing him under the bus. But instead he thinks they should take back $35 million worth of crap so he can have his money and play elsewhere. Don't sign a fucking contract you're not willing to honor when it's guaranteed.

What would be your idea of handling it professionally? He got shit on by both Doc and Embiid, and asked Philly for a trade. AFAIK, That was done behind closed doors, but quickly leaked. That’s also on Philly. Loose lips sink ships. That was in fucking JUNE, and it’s now October, and the regular season. Embiid still has his pants down, crapping on him today. The WORST fucking thing you can do is to force him back to the team. It’s already causing conflict, and drama, and further damaging his already low trade value. Morey needs to take a big ol’ bite of the shit sandwich, and trade him immediately.

[exstatic]

Can't really steal him anymore with Aminu's $10 million expiring salary slot gone.

Uh, Thad. He makes $14M, and paired with White or DJ, is a match salary wise.

[exstatic]

I think I’m with Ben Simmons on this one tbh he asked the 76ers to trade and they refused and then took his money so he had to act out to force there hand

So
Much
This

[exstatic]

Back when the snake was doing the same shit to the Spurs I was in the camp asking to keep him, fine him, even let him sit out a second season in a row, etc. but honestly this Philly-Simmons thing shows once again that the best solution is to trade as early as possible. Once it gets to such a stage there's no going back, ever.
Yup. All they can do now in their quest for revenge is damage his value further.

Read the room, Morey.

If I’m their owner, I’m deadlining him to accept the best offer by COB Friday. Give him a chance to canvas the 3-4 remaining teams one more time. Indy’s out now, having extended Brogdon, who now cannot be traded. So, us, Minny, Sacto, I guess.

[manufan10]

1450553295253164044

I don't remember Silver addressing the Kawhi situation.

[The Truth #6]

Morey and Simmons are both goofballs in my opinion. Both thoughts can be true.

[Dverde]

1450553295253164044

I don't remember Silver addressing the Kawhi situation.

Madam Silver is such a wussy leader.

[vy65]

That's not actually what happened. A player not showing up is already subject to fines -- which Philly has levied. That they are trying to not pay him on top of that is above what the CBA lays out. That's so much more true now that Simmons is physically back with the team. What justification does Philly have for not giving him the money owed to him three weeks ago? Take out the fines -- sure. But he should've gotten the balance of it if what they said initially is true. It's feeling like it will go to court eventually, because Philly is going beyond the normal discipline procedures. You have to ask yourself, "For what?" at this point. If they're expecting this to compel Simmons to come in and make the Sixers a contender or whatever, it's not going to happen. Best-case scenario for him in that situation would be that Philly is playing well and Simmons isn't traded but the fans/media/front office are waiting for the team to disappoint to blame him. Morey is both treating him like shit and gold at the same time.

If Simmons has breached his contract - which he assuredly has - then Philly is empowered to a) declare such breach and b) refuse to perform its obligations. I'd be curious to see any provisions of the CBA that could be argued to override this basic principal.

[CGD]

The trade is still there...

SAS: Simmons
PHX: Thad
PHI: Murray, LW4, Smith, Saric, CHI 1st, PHX 1st

[TD 21]

All the bullshit we've seen from Butler, Harden, Simmons, etc. and will continue to see is Scumbag's true "legacy". Only he got off scot free because his antics dismantled an organization/market that the national media despises and the league is indifferent to and it benefitted members of the cool kids . . . they'll only care when the shoe is on the other foot.

[Trueblood]

I don't get anyone supporting Simmons here. Summing things up:

He signed a long term contract
He played poorly
He didn't like being criticized
He's refusing to honor the contract he signed
He only caves when they rightfully withhold his money
Then he acts the fool to get his way

He's just a spoiled brat throwing a tantrum because words hurt and he needs the safe space of a new team. After everything nephew put this fan base through, how anyone supports this weak minded Prima Donna is beyond me...

I said it with #2 and I'll say it here. The team should just withhold all his money and let him rot. See who wants him in 4 years.

[Dverde]

Reminds me of this situation with all this contract talk.

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/5c9d43b292441b80c6014871/1555443405702-8AR92X3YH9W7WG0A4RV3/slave.jpg?format=500w

[exstatic]

If Simmons has breached his contract - which he assuredly has - then Philly is empowered to a) declare such breach and b) refuse to perform its obligations. I'd be curious to see any provisions of the CBA that could be argued to override this basic principal.

Philly doesn’t want a breach of contract, because that makes it null and void, and they get NOTHING.

I can’t tell you how many posters on this site said “If only Kawhi had gone to the front office, and asked to be traded…”. Well, that exactly what Simmons did. He’s not faking some fucking injury. His coach and Mr. 50 Games both threw his ass under the bus. I’d flip them the finger and walk out the door, too.

[Chinook]

If Simmons has breached his contract - which he assuredly has - then Philly is empowered to a) declare such breach and b) refuse to perform its obligations. I'd be curious to see any provisions of the CBA that could be argued to override this basic principal.

Not showing up already has punishment defined in the contract. Therefore, he's not breaching it. It would be like saying taking PEDs is breaching the contract. They have a right to fine him to negate what he'd make per day. But he's not being paid per day. He's being paid in lump sums. By not giving him his money, the Sixers are basically fining him for things he has done yet. When he wasn't reporting, the team could argue they were considering his absence as a statement of intention that he'd hold out. It wasn't a good argument, but it's logical at least. But he's with the team now, and they can't use that same projection. They need to pay him what he's owed and continue to fine him. Otherwise, they're breaching the contract by not following the agreed-upon rules for this situation.

[exstatic]

That's not actually what happened. A player not showing up is already subject to fines -- which Philly has levied. That they are trying to not pay him on top of that is above what the CBA lays out. That's so much more true now that Simmons is physically back with the team. What justification does Philly have for not giving him the money owed to him three weeks ago? Take out the fines -- sure. But he should've gotten the balance of it if what they said initially is true. It's feeling like it will go to court eventually, because Philly is going beyond the normal discipline procedures. You have to ask yourself, "For what?" at this point. If they're expecting this to compel Simmons to come in and make the Sixers a contender or whatever, it's not going to happen. Best-case scenario for him in that situation would be that Philly is playing well and Simmons isn't traded but the fans/media/front office are waiting for the team to disappoint to blame him. Morey is both treating him like shit and gold at the same time.

Probably yet ANOTHER reason he’s acting out. That’s like a $7 or 8 million payment they’re holding back.

[Dverde]

It wouldn’t be going down like this if Brett Brown was still there. He deserved to be fired tho, but this is a Morey and Tom Rivers production starring Ben Simmons.

[vy65]

Philly doesn’t want a breach of contract, because that makes it null and void, and they get NOTHING.

I can’t tell you how many posters on this site said “If only Kawhi had gone to the front office, and asked to be traded…”. Well, that exactly what Simmons did. He’s not faking some fucking injury. His coach and Mr. 50 Games both threw his ass under the bus. I’d flip them the finger and walk out the door, too.

No, they can enforce the terms of the contract and recover damages for breach. They could also seek specific performance given this is a contract for services, but that's a whole other can of worms.

[vy65]

Not showing up already has punishment defined in the contract. Therefore, he's not breaching it. It would be like saying taking PEDs is breaching the contract. They have a right to fine him to negate what he'd make per day. But he's not being paid per day. He's being paid in lump sums. By not giving him his money, the Sixers are basically fining him for things he has done yet. When he wasn't reporting, the team could argue they were considering his absence as a statement of intention that he'd hold out. It wasn't a good argument, but it's logical at least. But he's with the team now, and they can't use that same projection. They need to pay him what he's owed and continue to fine him. Otherwise, they're breaching the contract by not following the agreed-upon rules for this situation.

That's not correct. Contracts build in penalties for non-performance or breach all the time. They're called liquidated damages provisions. Philly may have opted to treat the contract as still valid and enforceable, and thus to avail themselves of provisions empowering them to fine Simmons. But Philly still has the power to say "the contract is done, and we don't have to pay you anymore." It is one of the most fundamental tenets of contract law that a party has the right to terminate a contract upon the counter-parties breach. That right might be abrogated by the CBA - but I've not seen anything to suggest that is the case.

I appreciate that you're saying he hasn't breached his contract, which is a different question than remedies for breach. As to whether BS is in breach, just doing a two minute google search gives us the following from the NBA Uniform Player Contract:

5. The Player agrees (a) to report at the time and place fixed by the Club in good physical condition; (b) to keep himself throughout each season in good physical condition; (c) to give his best services, as well as his loyalty to the Club, and to play basketball only for the Club and its assignees; (d) to be neatly and fully attired in public and always to conduct himself on and off the court according to the highest standards of honesty, morality, fair play and sportsmanship; and (e) not to do anything which is detrimental to the best interests of the Club or of the Association.

I'm sure I could conjure up additional terms of the NUPC that he's breached as well.

[PhantomDashCam]

https://youtu.be/IIgmO2TjaF4

Gee, I wonder what drill he didn’t want to participate in…

Doc Rivers bought into the coddling, praising Ben from his arrival there, stuck with him through thick and thin the entire regular season and playoffs… (Remember, Doc still had his back even when he was struggling in the Washington series.)They then lose a winner take all Game 7 against ATL, he’s asked a question in the heat of the moment about Ben Simmons being a PG on a championship team and Doc replies “I can’t answer that question right now”… and people think that Ben has been hard done by here? And people still want to trade for him? Even after the ‘Whi shenanigans?

[KingKev]

Lock this thread as we are not even engaged in these talks. Brian Wright is probably stupid enough to sell the house for Simmons but it is still a stretch. Our first round picks are going to easily be top 7 the next few years. Let’s stick to the program in our rebuild.

[Degoat]

One thing to consider even if 76ers were interested in a spurs package, I doubt they would want DJ or Lonnie since they’re represented by Klutch lol

[Chinook]

That's not correct. Contracts build in penalties for non-performance or breach all the time. They're called liquidated damages provisions. Philly may have opted to treat the contract as still valid and enforceable, and thus to avail themselves of provisions empowering them to fine Simmons. But Philly still has the power to say "the contract is done, and we don't have to pay you anymore." It is one of the most fundamental tenets of contract law that a party has the right to terminate a contract upon the counter-parties breach. That right might be abrogated by the CBA - but I've not seen anything to suggest that is the case.

I appreciate that you're saying he hasn't breached his contract, which is a different question than remedies for breach. As to whether BS is in breach, just doing a two minute google search gives us the following from the NBA Uniform Player Contract:

5. The Player agrees (a) to report at the time and place fixed by the Club in good physical condition; (b) to keep himself throughout each season in good physical condition; (c) to give his best services, as well as his loyalty to the Club, and to play basketball only for the Club and its assignees; (d) to be neatly and fully attired in public and always to conduct himself on and off the court according to the highest standards of honesty, morality, fair play and sportsmanship; and (e) not to do anything which is detrimental to the best interests of the Club or of the Association.

I'm sure I could conjure up additional terms of the NUPC that he's breached as well.

Basically, he's doing something for which the contract already has explicit punishment. What you're doing is just trying to see if he's doing something wrong -- he is. And he's being fined for it. If he were to try to get the fines rescinded in arbitration, it wouldn't work. However, there is nothing in the CBA that I've heard of that says teams can withhold payment for a guy not showing up. It's one of those things that "feels right" with the same logic you used earlier. But just as taking PEDs wouldn't meet, "the highest standards of honesty, morality, fair play and sportsmanship" but still wouldn't be a breach of contract because the punishment for PEDs is clearly laid out in the CBA, missing games and practices are already adjudicated. Breaching his contract at that point would be refusing to pay the fines or whatever. Philly not paying him is a breach of contract, provided the CBA doesn't explicitly say it's a thing teams can do.

The same source you quoted lays out how this is supposed to work.


4. The Player agrees to observe and comply with all requirements of the Club respecting conduct of its team and its players, at all times whether on or off the playing floor. The Club may, from time to time during the continuance of this contract, establish reasonable rules for the government of its players "at home" and "on the road." Subject to the provisions of the NBA/NBPA Collective Bargaining Agreement, such rule shall be part of this contract as fully as if herein written and shall be binding upon the Player. For any violation of such rules or for any conduct impairing the faithful and thorough discharge of the duties incumbent upon the Player, the Club may impose reasonable fines upon the Player. If no Grievance is timely initiated with respect to the imposition of such fines in accordance with the provisions of the NBA/NBPA Collective Bargaining Agreement, the Club may deduct the amount thereof from any money due or to become due to the Player during the season in which such violation and/or conduct occurred. The Club may also suspend the Player for violation of any rules so established. Upon such suspension, if no Grievance is timely initiated with respect thereto in accordance with the provisions of the NBA/NBPA Collective Bargaining Agreement, the compensation payable to the Player under this contract may be reduced in the manner provided in such Collective Bargaining Agreement. When the Player is fined or suspended, he shall be given notice in writing, stating the amount of the fine or the duration of the suspension and the reason therefor.

So Philly is supposed to pay Simmons what he's owed and fine him. They can suspend him and reduce his salary accordingly, provided they either win the grievance or have the suspension go unchallenged. But they can't just not pay him, especially before they get the go through the legal process. That Philly is withholding money that is more than enough to pay any fine doesn't make sense. They're preemptively fining him for things he hasn't done yet or using the financial repercussions of suspending him without going through the legal paper work. Philly can't just fine Simmons whatever they want.

[vy65]

Basically, he's doing something for which the contract already has explicit punishment. What you're doing is just trying to see if he's doing something wrong -- he is. And he's being fined for it. If he were to try to get the fines rescinded in arbitration, it wouldn't work. However, there is nothing in the CBA that I've heard of that says teams can withhold payment for a guy not showing up. It's one of those things that "feels right" with the same logic you used earlier. But just as taking PEDs wouldn't meet, "[COLOR=#000000]the highest standards of honesty, morality, fair play and sportsmanship" but still wouldn't be a breach of contract because the punishment for PEDs is clearly laid out in the CBA, missing games and practices are already adjudicated. Breaching his contract at that point would be refusing to pay the fines or whatever. Philly not paying him is a breach of contract, provided the CBA doesn't explicitly say it's a thing teams can do.

No. Philly has the right to fine him for his failure to perform and also terminate the contract due to BS's breach. There is nothing in the NUPC that says that the club's sole remedy for a player's breach is fines or salary withholding. In fact, it says the opposite: the club is empowered to terminate the contract at any time if the player:


20(b) The Club may terminate this contract upon written notice to the Player (but only after complying with the waiver procedure provided for in subparagraph (f) of this paragraph (20)) if the Player shall do any of the following

(2) at any time, fail, in the sole opinion of the Club's management, to exhibit sufficient skill or competitive ability to qualify to continue as a member of the Club's team, provided, however, (i) that if this contract is terminated by the Club, in accordance with the provisions of this subparagraph, prior to the fifty-sixth day after the first game of any scheduled season of the Association and the Player, at the time of such termination, is unfit to play skilled basketball as the result of an injury resulting directly from his playing for the Club, the Player shall continue to receive his full salary, less all worker's compensation benefits (which, to the extent permitted by law, and if not deducted from the Player's salary by the Club, the Player hereby assigns to the Club) and any insurance provided for by the Club paid or payable to the Player by reason of said injury, until such time as the Player is fit to play skilled basketball, but not beyond the season during which such termination occurred; and provided, further, (ii) that if this contract is terminated by the Club, in accordance with the provisions of the subparagraph, during the period from the fifty-sixth day after the first game of any scheduled season of the Association through the end of such scheduled season, the Player shall be entitled to receive his full salary for said season; or

(3) at any time, fail, refuse or neglect to render his services hereunder or in any other manner materially breach this contact.

These are separate provisions and have to be interpreted so as to give meaning to all their terms, and thus enforced. So you can't say that Philly is not empowered to terminate the contract and it's only recourse is to fine BS. That interpretation would read out of the contract those terms dealing with contract-termination.


So Philly is supposed to pay Simmons what he's owed and fine him. They can suspend him and reduce his salary accordingly, provided they either win the grievance or have the suspension go unchallenged. But they can't just not pay him, especially before they get the go through the legal process. That Philly is withholding money that is more than enough to pay any fine doesn't make sense. They're preemptively fining him for things he hasn't done yet or using the financial repercussions of suspending him without going through the legal paper work. Philly can't just fine Simmons whatever they want.

As for the question of withholding salary, the NUPC speaks to what Simmons is entitled to receive upon termination


(d) If this contract is terminated by the Club during the period designated by the Club for attendance at training camp, payment by the Club of the Player's board, lodging and expense allowance during such period to the date of termination and of the reasonable traveling expenses of the Player to his home city and the expert training and coaching provided by the Club to the Player during the training season shall be full payment to the Player.


(e) If this contract is terminated by the Club during any playing season, except in the case provided for in subparagraphs (b)(2) and (c)(1) of this paragraph 20, the Player shall be entitled to receive as full payment hereunder a sum of money which, when added to the salary which he has already received during such season, will represent the same proportionate amount of the annual sum set forth in Exhibit 1 hereto as the number of days of such season then past bears to the total number of days of such schedule season, plus the reasonable travelling expenses of the Player to his home.

If terminated today, arguably no money would ever be owed to Simmons under 20(d) as there is nothing in there that mentions payments due to be made prior to the beginning of the season. The case under 20(e) is harder, but I think Philly probably has a colorable argument to terminate BS for failure to "exhibit sufficient skill or competitive ability" meaning that the provisions requiring payment "already received during such season" wouldn't apply. That would probably be BS's best hook for saying Philly has to make his lump sum payments. Again, you have to enforce the terms of the contract as written and there is nothing here that obligates Philly to pay BS given BS's refusal to play.

[K...]

Nothing is funner than a lawyer talking outside their practice. Playing shitty isn't breach, leaving when told is not. Non payment on agreed dates probably a breach, but simmons wants the contract enforced.

If either simmons or philly actually breach the contract this would have major implication for the league. As we know it. I would assume as bad as it sounds the owners aren't letting philly get out of this scrape.

[Chinook]

No. Philly has the right to fine him for his failure to perform and also terminate the contract due to BS's breach. There is nothing in the NUPC that says that the club's sole remedy for a player's breach is fines or salary withholding. In fact, it says the opposite: the club is empowered to terminate the contract at any time if the player:

These are separate provisions and have to be given their meaning and enforced. So you can't say that Philly is not empowered to terminate the contract and it's only recourse is to fine simmons.

As for the question of withholding salary, the NUPC speaks to what Simmons is entitled to receive upon termination

If terminated today, arguably no money would ever be owed to Simmons under 20(d) as there is nothing in there that mentions payments due to be made prior to the beginning of the season. The case under 20(e) is harder, but I think Philly probably has a colorable argument to terminate BS for failure to "exhibit sufficient skill or competitive ability" meaning that the provisions requiring payment "already received during such season" wouldn't apply. That would probably be BS's best hook for saying Philly has to make his lump sum payments. Again, you have to enforce the terms of the contract as written and there is nothing here that obligates Philly to pay BS given BS's refusal to play.

So terminating his contract and keeping him under contract and just not paying him aren't the same thing. You can be fired for a number of things at your job, depending on where you live. But you can't have the company not pay you but still prevent you from signing with another company. Whether Philly can end the contract is a possible discussion point for sure, but you assuming they can do whatever they want in terms of fines is way off base. There's a CBA for a reason, and even this addendum to the CBA doesn't say they can withhold salary without terminating the contract -- it says the opposite, as I already showed.

Moreover, when you say something like, "arguably no money would ever owed", that means the issue would go to court. As this doc says, discipline is eligible for appeal and not something the team can just do on its own without due process. Philly might be able to terminate him citing some rule listed here or similar, but then Simmons has his chance to file a grievance and get his case herd. That's with the most extreme example -- as mentioned fines and suspensions are directly spoken about for this in the CBA. It literally says the fine for missing practices and games. We don't have to sit here and wonder what the punishment is because it's explicitly stated.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q107


107. How does player discipline work? Can teams fine or suspend players for any reason? Do fines and suspensions apply to team salary?
The league or a player's team can levy a fine and/or suspension for breaking league or team rules1, respectively. Generally the league and the team do not both discipline a player for the same violation, and the league retains the right to rescind any team discipline within 48 hours and impose its own. However, there are a few exceptions where a player can be disciplined by both the league and his team -- when the egregious nature of the act or conduct is so lacking in justification as to warrant a double penalty. The CBA does not give a complete list of reasons for which a player can be fined or suspended, although some are specified:

...


Intentional failure or refusal to render the services required under the player's contract or the CBA: Suspension (length unspecified).
Missed practice: $2,500 for the first occurrence, $5,000 for the second, $7,500 for the third, and greater discipline, including suspension, for subsequent missed practices.

...

The money from fines and suspensions is put to good use -- it's given to charities of the NBA's and players association's choosing. Players are not paid while they are suspended -- for each missed game, the player is docked a portion of his salary, whether suspended for a preseason, regular season or postseason game (see question number 13 (http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q13) for information on how suspensions impact team salary) as follows:

If the suspension is less than 20 games, 1/145 of his base compensation.
If the suspension is 20 or more games, or an indefinite suspension that lasts at least 20 games, 1/110 of his base compensation.


108. Can fines or suspensions be appealed?
Players are allowed to appeal fines and suspensions. If the penalty from league discipline is less than the following, then the appeal is heard by the Commissioner. If the penalty exceeds these amounts, or if the player and players association are dissatisfied with the Commissioner's decision, the appeal is heard by the league's grievance arbitrator:

For on-court1 conduct or in-game conduct involving another player, a fine of $50,000 and/or a suspension of 12 games.
For issues related to the integrity of, or confidence in the game of basketball, a financial impact (from a fine and/or lost salary due to a suspension) of $50,000.

Penalties imposed by a team may be appealed to the league's grievance arbitrator if the financial impact (from a fine and/or lost salary due to a suspension) is $5,000 or greater. In the case of any appeal involving penalties imposed by the league or the player's team, the arbitrator's decision is the full and final resolution of the dispute.

The process to punish a player for holding out is clearly laid out and not something that relies on a common-law understanding of contracts. It's not a generic "breach of contract" situation like you laid out for a few mostly obvious reasons. The consequences are part of the contract, and Philly not following that contract is their breach. Philly has to suspend Simmons to withhold his money and not just refuse to pay. Could they theoretically sue Simmons to get him to pay the fines rather than it coming from their pocket? Sure. But they can't act like they've already won the suit and start withholding his salary to pay fines, because the CBA doesn't tell them they can. Simmons has to be paid then fined/suspended then potentially sued. Philly not doing that puts them at risk of their own suit. As to whether Philly can terminate the contract, that might be true, but if they do, then they still have to pay Simmons as his payment schedule allowed then sue him to get some of it back rather than holding it.

[vy65]

So terminating his contract and keeping him under contract and just not paying him aren't the same thing. You can be fired for a number of things at your job, depending on where you live. But you can't have the company not pay you but still prevent you from signing with another company. Whether Philly can end the contract is a possible discussion point for sure, but you assuming they can do whatever they want in terms of fines is way off base. There's a CBA for a reason, and even this addendum to the CBA doesn't say they can withhold salary without terminating the contract -- it says the opposite, as I already showed.

I never said PHI can terminate him and keep him under contract. Nor did I say they could terminate BS and keep him from playing for another team. I said PHI has the right to fine him and also terminate. PHI could, if it chose, fine him and then terminate him. But once the contract terminated, the punitive provisions the team could have used would no longer apply.

And PHI absolutely has the right to withhold his salary for non-performance. Contracting parties do that every day. These are basic doctrines like prior material breach - if you breach my contract first I can rely on that and stop performing. That's the law in every state. If that is not the rule under the CBA, then there would have to be a provision stating as much. I haven't seen, and you haven't shown me, a provision from the CBA that requires payment from the team to the player regardless of the circumstances. That's likely because that provision doesn't exist. The CBA doesn't abrogate basic common law concepts like prior material breach. And if the parties had intended for payment to be an absolute right, they could have said so in the four corners of the NUPC. They didn't, and no court or arbitrator has the power to expand the terms of the parties' agreement as written. The existence of a CBA doesn't upend the applicability of all laws, but you're treating it like it does.

Use your common sense: PHI stops paying BS. BS would sue. PHI would defend itself by saying BS committed a prior material breach of contract and thus PHI was excused from its performance obligations. Absent the CBA provision I mentioned above, PHI would prevail on that theory.


Moreover, when you say something like, "arguably no money would ever owed", that means the issue would go to court. As this doc says, discipline is eligible for appeal and not something the team can just do on its own without due process. Philly might be able to terminate him citing some rule listed here or similar, but then Simmons has his chance to file a grievance and get his case herd. That's with the most extreme example -- as mentioned fines and suspensions are directly spoken about for this in the CBA. It literally says the fine for missing practices and games. We don't have to sit here and wonder what the punishment is because it's explicitly stated.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q107

[/LIST]

The process to punish a player for holding out is clearly laid out and not something that relies on a common-law understanding of contracts. It's not a generic "breach of contract" situation like you laid out for a few mostly obvious reasons. The consequences are part of the contract, and Philly not following that contract is their breach. Philly has to suspend Simmons to withhold his money and not just refuse to pay. Could they theoretically sue Simmons to get him to pay the fines rather than it coming from their pocket? Sure. But they can't act like they've already won the suit and start withholding his salary to pay fines, because the CBA doesn't tell them they can. Simmons has to be paid then fined/suspended then potentially sued. Philly not doing that puts them at risk of their own suit. As to whether Philly can terminate the contract, that might be true, but if they do, then they still have to pay Simmons as his payment schedule allowed then sue him to get some of it back rather than holding it.

There's no dispute about what due process would be afforded BS, so I don't know why you're raising this. The grievance procedure in the CBA is irrelevant to whether a prior material breach excuses a party from its contractual obligations. You're conflating procedure with substantive legal defenses - and nothing in the CBA or the FAQ suggests that a) fines are the exclusive remedy available to PHI; b) PHI must absolutely always pay BS regardless of his performance. Again, had that been the intended contractual architecture, those words would appear in the CBA or the NUPC. They don't. And your understanding of the situation violates some of the most basic tenets of contract construction

[BacktoBasics]

We’d all benefit from shorter posts.

[99 Problems]

A big correction will come in the EB. Probably the next EB. The guaranteed money wasn’t intended to cause these dramas we are seeing in recent seasons. A shift will occur in the power base back to the owners, most likely via a lockout, that’s my prediction.

[Chinook]

I never said PHI can terminate him and keep him under contract. Nor did I say they could terminate BS and keep him from playing for another team. I said PHI has the right to fine him and also terminate. PHI could, if it chose, fine him and then terminate him. But once the contract terminated, the punitive provisions the team could have used would no longer apply.

But what they don't have the right to do is not pay him while keeping him under contract. They are currently not paying him. That's a problem. You're inventing a scenario where they can get out of paying him -- but that's not what is going on. So what you're even arguing at this point is very limited, to the point where it's not applicable.


Use your common sense: PHI stops paying BS. BS would sue. PHI would defend itself by saying BS committed a prior material breach of contract and thus PHI was excused from its performance obligations. Absent the CBA provision I mentioned above, PHI would prevail on that theory.

The CBA says 'Teams are supposed to pay players like this.' And then, 'If a player refuses to render services, they can be suspended.' It doesn't say, 'The team pays the player, unless that player refuses to render services, in which case they can choose to withhold the salary.' That's black and white. The CBA is what determines whether the contract can be breached, not your understanding of contract law. This should be obvious by the fact that the fines are appealed to a league official and not the civil courts. The Sixers aren't an independent business; they operate under the franchise of the NBA and are subject to agreements the NBA makes with the NBPA. It's like how the Sixers couldn't refuse to play national games because the league has agreements with Disney and Turner that trumps the Sixers' agreements with Bally Sports.


There's no dispute about what due process would be afforded BS, so I don't know why you're raising this. The grievance procedure in the CBA is irrelevant to whether a prior material breach excuses a party from its contractual obligations. You're conflating procedure with substantive legal defenses - and nothing in the CBA or the FAQ suggests that a) fines are the exclusive remedy available to PHI; b) PHI must absolutely always pay BS regardless of his performance. Again, had that been the intended contractual architecture, those words would appear in the CBA or the NUPC. They don't. And your understanding of the situation violates some of the most basic tenets of contract construction

You keep talking about what the Sixers could do hypothetically. I'm talking about what they're doing. So the idea that Simmons "would be afforded" due process before anything is done completely missing out on the fact that Philly is already doing things. They aren't doing the fake things you're talking about where they're terminating the contract. That's a nonstarter for them and Simmons and really doesn't need to be discussed. But them actually withholding salary should spark a grievance, and likely will if this keeps going. The idea that it's irrelevant to whether a prior breach happens doesn't make sense, since it can't be determined if a breach happened before a grievance even happens. Simmons not showing up to start camp doesn't open him up to any the Sixers wanted to do with him. It's weird as hell that you think it does. The NBA and NBPA agree to these disciplinary steps exactly, not a scenario where they're the bare minimum the league can do. The PED policy in the NBA is 25 games. That doesn't mean a team can choose not to pay him for the season just because "It doesn't say they can't do more than that". It's an obviously wrong extension that would be challenged by the NBPA.

[Chinook]

A big correction will come in the EB. Probably the next EB. The guaranteed money wasn’t intended to cause these dramas we are seeing in recent seasons. A shift will occur in the power base back to the owners, most likely via a lockout, that’s my prediction.

Nah. Owners are making a ton of money off the league. It doesn't make sense for them to give that up for pride or whatever. Likely the NBPA will agree to a heavier fine system for guys like Simmons, Harden and Butler. But the idea of the owners cracking the whip on the players or whatever is very unlikely.

[tonight...you]

I'm glad I have a good agent to keep up with the details of contracts.

Because these posts are exhausting and I'm not a detail-oriented guy, hence why I do what I do.

[K...]

They should have a public arbitration board, and fully reality show these dramas. Force guys on the record. Would be easier to blackball a player if they fail a public trial by fire.

[rjv]

We’d all benefit from shorter posts.

For a minute there, I thought people were posting their dissertations.

[exstatic]

They should have a public arbitration board, and fully reality show these dramas. Force guys on the record. Would be easier to blackball a player if they fail a public trial by fire.

The only blackballing happening is the Sixers by literally every NBA player agent. This may have started as Klutch vs. Sixers, but Morey is literally taking a blowtorch to the franchise. Their owner needs to fire him yesterday.

[spurraider21]

No, they can enforce the terms of the contract and recover damages for breach. They could also seek specific performance given this is a contract for services, but that's a whole other can of worms.
good luck having specific performance granted :lol

[vy65]

good luck having specific performance granted :lol

Yeah I know, although that would be a hilarious case

[rastaspur]

I'm glad I have a good agent to keep up with the details of contracts.

Because these posts are exhausting and I'm not a detail-oriented guy, hence why I do what I do.

These posts make me want to retire. Lawyers are long winded and boring af. :smokin

[The Truth #6]

I feel confident that Vy65 and Chinook have thought about these issues and ramifications more closely than Morey has. Not sure what Morey is trying to do. I’m all for pushing back on superstar privilege but not if it gives more power to the owners. The fans are the bystanders in this type of mess.

[tonight...you]

These posts make me want to retire. Lawyers are long winded and boring af. :smokin
Lol. Aren't you an attorney?

[exstatic]

I feel confident that Vy65 and Chinook have thought about these issues and ramifications more closely than Morey has. Not sure what Morey is trying to do. I’m all for pushing back on superstar privilege but not if it gives more power to the owners. The fans are the bystanders in this type of mess.

Morey is an absolute wizard with analytics and player evaluation. His problem is that he treats them like commodities, and that doesn’t work in the long run. Ben Simmons might be acting like a child, but it’s not in your long term interest to treat him like one. It’s a players league. A players league.

[JeffDuncan]

But what they don't have the right to do is not pay him while keeping him under contract. ...


Correct, of course. To stop paying Simmons, under the contract, the 76ers would have to terminate the contract, ending the mutual obligation. IOW they'd have to fire him.

It's arguable theycould terminate it, because of his refusal to participate, but they have not done so. Last I heard.

It's highly unlikely the 76ers would terminate because they'd lose all value associated with the contract. As you know, I'm sure.

So, yes, the remedies for the 76ers are limited to the fines and suspensions the CBA provides.

If anyone wants to get fundamental about it, the contract Simmons has with the 76ers establishes a work relationship, and work without pay is unconstitutional. Slavery is forbidden. Pay him, or fire him.



... The CBA is what determines whether the contract can be breached, not your understanding of contract law. This should be obvious by the fact that the fines are appealed to a league official and not the civil courts. ...


That's incorrect. The CBA language about "final" means within the purview of the NBA.

No private contract can deprive a person of access to the courts. The CBA doesn't speak of the courts of law because the courts are a higher authority who speak for themselves. Only the courts, themselves, can say what they will hear, or not hear.

[Chinook]

Correct, of course. To stop paying Simmons, under the contract, the 76ers would have to terminate the contract, ending the mutual obligation. IOW they'd have to fire him.

It's arguable theycould terminate it, because of his refusal to participate, but they have not done so. Last I heard.

It's highly unlikely the 76ers would terminate because they'd lose all value associated with the contract. As you know, I'm sure.

So, yes, the remedies for the 76ers are limited to the fines and suspensions the CBA provides.

If anyone wants to get fundamental about it, the contract Simmons has with the 76ers establishes a work relationship, and work without pay is unconstitutional. Slavery is forbidden. Pay him, or fire him.





That's incorrect. The CBA language about "final" means within the purview of the NBA.

No private contract can deprive a person of access to the courts. The CBA doesn't speak of the courts of law because the courts are a higher authority who speak for themselves. Only the courts, themselves, can say what they will hear, or not hear.

I probably didn't make it clear. What i meant is that the CBA having a review process to the league/arbiter is because it's a collectively bargained shell between the league and players' association. That was in the context for why looking at a common understanding of contract law isn't the most relevant thing. The CBA is for teams and players to follow, and it clearly says what to do in this case. Philly can't treat this like Simmons is an Uber driver. They are part of an antitrust-exempt organization partnering with a mandatory labor union. They're at risk of damaging the league's exemption status if they don't follow the CBA, and the league isn't going to let that happen.

[JeffDuncan]

I feel confident that Vy65 and Chinook have thought about these issues and ramifications more closely than Morey has. Not sure what Morey is trying to do. ...


What Morey is trying to do is NOT trade Simmons. And it's clear he's given it plenty of thought. Those highly publicized, and wild, trade offers are not real.

It's a show, so Morey can say to the 76er fans, hey I really really tried to trade Simmons but nobody would deal, so please forgive us if we're stuck with him.

Then the RS starts, Simmons returns to the team, the team continues its winning ways, the controversy fades into history, and everybody is happy. That's what he's trying to do. Will it work? Not quite yet, but we'll see.



I’m all for pushing back on superstar privilege but not if it gives more power to the owners. The fans are the bystanders in this type of mess.


Yes, the fans are watching. So Morey has given them a show. Enough of a show? Don't know yet.

[John B]

What Morey is trying to do is NOT trade Simmons. And it's clear he's given it plenty of thought. Those highly publicized, and wild, trade offers are not real.

It's a show, so Morey can say to the 76er fans, hey I really really tried to trade Simmons but nobody would deal, so please forgive us if we're stuck with him.

Then the RS starts, Simmons returns to the team, the team continues its winning ways, the controversy fades into history, and everybody is happy. That's what he's trying to do. Will it work? Not quite yet, but we'll see.




Yes, the fans are watching. So Morey has given them a show. Enough of a show? Don't know yet.

Or maybe he’s butt-hurt that Harden did the same to him which cost him his job, and he’s showing not another of this “diva”, not this time around? Because I don’t really see anything good coming out of this for the Sixers the more Morey drag this. His personal agenda is hurting the Sixers more where they should be focusing on helping Embiid and the team prepare into the new season and possibly pass round one. The guy said he doesn’t want to play there anymore, and already got penalized. I think there’s no going back and Morey starts cutting his losses.

[spurraider21]

Morey is an absolute wizard with analytics and player evaluation. His problem is that he treats them like commodities, and that doesn’t work in the long run. Ben Simmons might be acting like a child, but it’s not in your long term interest to treat him like one. It’s a players league. A players league.
he gave up 2 first round picks and 2 first round pick swaps to downgrade from paul to westbrook

[exstatic]

he gave up 2 first round picks and 2 first round pick swaps to downgrade from paul to westbrook

Harden wanted Paul gone. That didn’t happen in a vacuum, and wasn’t his choice. It also may be coloring his reactions this time.

[rastaspur]

Lol. Aren't you an attorney?

Yes.

🤣

[ismael-robert]

Attorney who smokes pot...doubt it

[Dverde]

Harden wanted Paul gone. That didn’t happen in a vacuum, and wasn’t his choice. It also may be coloring his reactions this time.

Says Morey through his thirsty podcaster friends. Morey also said he wasn’t trading Chris Paul and Ben Simmons before he offered them up in trades. Morey is overrated af. He makes trades just to make trades. He’s just throwing stuff with Harden hoping something would work. Plus he was tampering with Chris Paul when he was still a Clipper. POS GM

[Leetonidas]

Attorney who smokes pot...doubt it

Really not hard to believe. Plus it's legal in a lot of places now

[Mugen]

Attorney who smokes pot...doubt it

Not sure if serious tbh

[Chinook]

Interesting that the Spurs commentators gave relatively critical opinions of Simmons. Not that such opinions aren't understandable, but for a guy whose biggest gripe is the pile-on criticism, what they said probably wouldn't sit well with him if the Spurs end up acquiring him. So either they'll be told not to do it again, or it's a sign the Spurs are out on the Simmons running.

Plus comparing Simmons to Avery is ridiculously dumb. Especially in the context of 99, Simmons is much closer to Robinson, who certainly got his own criticism before Tim.

[SpurPadre]

Interesting that the Spurs commentators gave relatively critical opinions of Simmons. Not that such opinions aren't understandable, but for a guy whose biggest gripe is the pile-on criticism, what they said probably wouldn't sit well with him if the Spurs end up acquiring him. So either they'll be told not to do it again, or it's a sign the Spurs are out on the Simmons running.

Plus comparing Simmons to Avery is ridiculously dumb. Especially in the context of 99, Simmons is much closer to Robinson, who certainly got his own criticism before Tim.

Except that Robinson was the antithesis of a head case unlike Simmons.

[Chinook]

Except that Robinson was the antithesis of a head case unlike Simmons.

But Sean's point is what Avery wasn't a headcase, so Robinson handling his criticism would've made his point much better than Johnson who was a cancer role-player who was a best the fourth-best starter on that title team. Johnson didn't need to "prove he could be a championship point-guard" in the same way Simmons has to. Simmons is already an elite distributor and has tremendous impact. Johnson just had to not take the ball out of Tim's hands.

[K...]

Except that Robinson was the antithesis of a head case unlike Simmons.

in teh current social media age, you can't be sure. David wasn't super confident, he would probably act like Durant. oh and lebron would fuck him out of SA.

[Spurminator]

in teh current social media age, you can't be sure. David wasn't super confident, he would probably act like Durant.

lol wut

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

Attorney who smokes pot...doubt it

lmao wut

[azarel]

in teh current social media age, you can't be sure. David wasn't super confident, he would probably act like Durant. oh and lebron would fuck him out of SA.

lol i think Admiral can easily be considered as one of the most mature/level headed adult in NBA's history.

[T Park]

Interesting that the Spurs commentators gave relatively critical opinions of Simmons. Not that such opinions aren't understandable, but for a guy whose biggest gripe is the pile-on criticism, what they said probably wouldn't sit well with him if the Spurs end up acquiring him. So either they'll be told not to do it again, or it's a sign the Spurs are out on the Simmons running.

Plus comparing Simmons to Avery is ridiculously dumb. Especially in the context of 99, Simmons is much closer to Robinson, who certainly got his own criticism before Tim.


Listen to the comparison again and it’s spot on.

[T Park]

But Sean's point is what Avery wasn't a headcase, so Robinson handling his criticism would've made his point much better than Johnson who was a cancer role-player who was a best the fourth-best starter on that title team. Johnson didn't need to "prove he could be a championship point-guard" in the same way Simmons has to. Simmons is already an elite distributor and has tremendous impact. Johnson just had to not take the ball out of Tim's hands.


Avery Johnson a cancer? Lmfao

[MI21]

58 pages on this is wild, considering the Spurs feel like the absolute last team that would take on Australian Tony Allen.

[tbdog]

Interesting that the Spurs commentators gave relatively critical opinions of Simmons. Not that such opinions aren't understandable, but for a guy whose biggest gripe is the pile-on criticism, what they said probably wouldn't sit well with him if the Spurs end up acquiring him. So either they'll be told not to do it again, or it's a sign the Spurs are out on the Simmons running.

Plus comparing Simmons to Avery is ridiculously dumb. Especially in the context of 99, Simmons is much closer to Robinson, who certainly got his own criticism before Tim.

Great opinion. And there is more to the story than what we are getting. Rivers needs to be called out for not being a players coach.

[GreekSpursfan]

Morey is looking for an instant impact all star lvl player or very close to it to pair with Embiid, we can't provide that, this thread is a figment of our imagination.

[Mr. Body]

58 pages on this is wild, considering the Spurs feel like the absolute last team that would take on Australian Tony Allen.

Yeah. There's 0% chance the Spurs had any interest in Simmons on their team. Getting involved in trades? Sure. For the dumbass himself? Nope.

[exstatic]

Morey is looking for an instant impact all star lvl player or very close to it to pair with Embiid, we can't provide that, this thread is a figment of our imagination.

Getting an instant impact all star is a figment of Moreys imagination. No one is giving him that.

[Kurgan]

Morey is looking for an instant impact all star lvl player or very close to it to pair with Embiid, we can't provide that, this thread is a figment of our imagination.

What Morey wants and what teams are willing to give up are two very different things. Based on the offers that have been revealed so far, Morey's expectations are unrealistic

[couchman]

Despite Simmons' tremendous talents he is not THE GUY you build around because you HAVE TO SCORE to be the #1 guy in today's NBA.
He is an elite player with a big impact on the game, but he is more of a Pippen or a Draymond, an elite 2nd fiddle.
We need a #1 guy and having Simmons won't get us there any faster. HARD PASS

[mo7888]

Despite Simmons' tremendous talents he is not THE GUY you build around because you HAVE TO SCORE to be the #1 guy in today's NBA.
He is an elite player with a big impact on the game, but he is more of a Pippen or a Draymond, an elite 2nd fiddle.
We need a #1 guy and having Simmons won't get us there any faster. HARD PASS

I'm fine with passing on Simmons but, I'm going to push back a little here .. Having a second fiddle (a Pippen or Draymond) makes it more attractive and easier for a #1 guy to come here...in fact I don't think any #1 would even consider us without a clear #2 being in place...

[John B]

Morey just doesn’t want it on his butt again, after Harden forced himself out of Rockets.. not another “diva.” That’s all it is. His personal agenda, however, should not dictate what happens to the future of the team, especially on Embiid’s MVP bid and quest for ring. Embiid will soon be next to ask to leave, if Morey’s actions continues to distract the team.

Maybe Portland or Wiz would lose 10 games in a row and that would be his best bet. But depends also if Sixers continue to play good. If not, fingers would be pointing to Morey for dragging this too long.

[spurraider21]

Australian Tony Allen.
some of you are batshit

[couchman]

I'm fine with passing on Simmons but, I'm going to push back a little here .. Having a second fiddle (a Pippen or Draymond) makes it more attractive and easier for a #1 guy to come here...in fact I don't think any #1 would even consider us without a clear #2 being in place...

In general I agree, however in the specific case of Simmons I'm not sold that he is the kind of #2 to attract a #1 to join him. He has a team right now in Philly with a clear #1 and great supporting cast and he is quitting on that

[mo7888]

In general I agree, however in the specific case of Simmons I'm not sold that he is the kind of #2 to attract a #1 to join him. He has a team right now in Philly with a clear #1 and great supporting cast and he is quitting on that

Those are all fair concerns....

[Mr. Body]

Simmons is now claiming his back hurts and has mental issues, so won't play on Friday. It seems he intends to sit out indefinitely. I don't see how this helps him. He's still under contract. If he sits out a year, he still owes a year. And his trade value at this point has to be dogshit.

[Dejounte]

Simmons retiring like MJ and coming back with a vengeance to win three more championships hitting big shot after big shot.

[John B]

Simmons is now claiming his back hurts and has mental issues, so won't play on Friday. It seems he intends to sit out indefinitely. I don't see how this helps him. He's still under contract. If he sits out a year, he still owes a year. And his trade value at this point has to be dogshit.


Per Morey’s interview with a local radio:

“You’re going to think I’m kidding. I’m not. This can be four years. The conditions I’m pointing out to you don’t change. Unless Ben Simmons is traded for a difference-maker. We’re in the prime of Joel’s career. We have to get back either Ben Simmons playing well for us, who helps us win the championship. Or, we have to get back a difference-maker for Ben Simmons,” Morey said.

Damn, that guy’s an ass.

[Mr. Body]

Per Morey’s interview with a local radio:

“You’re going to think I’m kidding. I’m not. This can be four years. The conditions I’m pointing out to you don’t change. Unless Ben Simmons is traded for a difference-maker. We’re in the prime of Joel’s career. We have to get back either Ben Simmons playing well for us, who helps us win the championship. Or, we have to get back a difference-maker for Ben Simmons,” Morey said.

Damn, that guy’s an ass.

If you mean Ben Simmons, yes, you're right.

[exstatic]

If you mean Ben Simmons, yes, you're right.

There is no good guy. Morey’s determined to be Captain Ahab.

[Degoat]

Moreys such a little twat lmao I don’t buy for a minute what he’s saying. If im Simmons, I Play and either pretend to get hurt or suck big time on the court

[Mr. Body]

There is no good guy. Morey’s determined to be Captain Ahab.

I'm not sure why people think Morey is acting alone.

[Mr. Body]

Moreys such a little twat lmao I don’t buy for a minute what he’s saying. If im Simmons, I Play and either pretend to get hurt or suck big time on the court

Like, literally Simmons is saying he's not going to play and is pretending to be hurt.

[XDT76]

Per Morey’s interview with a local radio:

“You’re going to think I’m kidding. I’m not. This can be four years. The conditions I’m pointing out to you don’t change. Unless Ben Simmons is traded for a difference-maker. We’re in the prime of Joel’s career. We have to get back either Ben Simmons playing well for us, who helps us win the championship. Or, we have to get back a difference-maker for Ben Simmons,” Morey said.

Damn, that guy’s an ass.

He can say all he wants if BS really sits out 4 years his cap still affects who Philly can sign even when they fine him every game. Embiid might bail cos he sees no hope of winning a championship.

[Mr. Body]

He can say all he wants if BS really sits out 4 years his cap still affects who Philly can sign even when they fine him every game. Embiid might bail cos he sees no hope of winning a championship.

Ben Simmons cannot afford to sit out 4 years.

[CGD]

Ben Simmons cannot afford to sit out 4 years.

Lol. Dude made 31M just last year alone.

[CGD]

I think the nba is quietly rooting the sixers on here in hopes of sending message to players.

[John B]

I think the nba is quietly rooting the sixers on here in hopes of sending message to players.

I get it. But the guy didn’t fake or hide like nephew did. He informed the Sixers FO his intentions to get traded, not through twitter or media. Morey’s just being an ass.

[MI21]

some of you are batshit

Exaggeration to prove a point.

Simmons just isn't that great and combined with his other red flags associated with attitude, he is a negative contract. I am Australian so I have all the reason to have bias towards Simmons, but his act is tired and the lack of growth in his game shows he has little self awareness. He is not going to be another teams "Giannis" and the risks you have to take with him to potential reap some middling reward is definitely not worth it.

[Gibbz]

It's Doc's fault. Simmons is definitely a diva but Rivers did his usual throw a player under the bus and take zero responsibility bit. Philly certainly should have known better than to hire the mother fucker and they deserve this nonsense for doing it.

[tbdog]

It's Doc's fault. Simmons is definitely a diva but Rivers did his usual throw a player under the bus and take zero responsibility bit. Philly certainly should have known better than to hire the mother fucker and they deserve this nonsense for doing it.

Exactly. It's everyone's fault actually. Rivers is a snake though.

[exstatic]

Here’s Simmons direction for next year if he’s smart. Collect the July check. Report to TC, and collect the October check. Collect the January check, and leave the team after 62 games, probably late Feb or early March. No stretch run. No playoffs. 75% pay, 75% games played. As Morey said, four years of this.

[Drom John]

Whether it's David Robinson, Kawhi Leonard, or Zach Collins, if the player is physically unable to play, then the team still has to pay.
Ben Simmons back problem may be fake, but proving otherwise will be tough.

[The Truth #6]

It’s like a sneaky worker’s comp scam mixed with reality TV.

He may actually have mental health issues but no insight into it. But if he’s using it disingenuously to get out of work…that’s insulting.

[BacktoBasics]

Lol. Dude made 31M just last year alone.

They make a lot of money but spend a lot of money according to Pat Ewing.

[BacktoBasics]

I think the nba is quietly rooting the sixers on here in hopes of sending message to players.

Absolutely. I’m all for players getting what they deserve but holding teams hostage with trade demands while torpedoing your trade value has to stop. It’s not good for the league. Even the trade demands with a short list isn’t good for the league. Even though it’s not the same the Anthony Davis type shit needs to go away too.

[The Truth #6]

Absolutely. I’m all for players getting what they deserve but holding teams hostage with trade demands while torpedoing your trade value has to stop. It’s not good for the league. Even the trade demands with a short list isn’t good for the league. Even though it’s not the same the Anthony Davis type shit needs to go away too.

Yeah, that’s my thought. I used to hate the owners. Now I’m hating the superstars, too. Fans get caught in the middle.

[MannyIsGod]

Interesting that the Spurs commentators gave relatively critical opinions of Simmons. Not that such opinions aren't understandable, but for a guy whose biggest gripe is the pile-on criticism, what they said probably wouldn't sit well with him if the Spurs end up acquiring him. So either they'll be told not to do it again, or it's a sign the Spurs are out on the Simmons running.

Plus comparing Simmons to Avery is ridiculously dumb. Especially in the context of 99, Simmons is much closer to Robinson, who certainly got his own criticism before Tim.

The comparison was that both were PGs that were told they would never win championships. Simmons by the fans, AJ by Damon Stodamire and others. Thats where the comparison ended as Sean went on to draw the stark distinctions on how they approached criticism. The comparison with AJ is better, imo, as the main complain with both is that they can't shoot. I do think there's a comparison to be made with Drob as well though, as the main criticism of him was that he was "soft". I don't have a problem with either.

That being said, that is a very good insight about Bill and Sean being critical of him and how the organization will feel about that. I didn't think about that during the game, but you're spot on. If they do it again, then its probably safe to assume the Spurs are not trying to trade for him.

[baseline bum]

I think the nba is quietly rooting the sixers on here in hopes of sending message to players.

After not giving a shit when it was the Spurs getting fucked.

[MannyIsGod]

Its all about leverage in this situation and each party trying to show they have more of it. I do think Simmons has really handled this kind of stupidly to this point. I understand his frustration at being at the whim of the club who is blaming him for the losses, but I can't help but be amazed at how stupidly he's handled it after the trade demand. His main problem is that his 4 years under contract rob him of leverage and the Sixers aren't desperate to get something for his absence so they're willing to sit on it for the time being. Simmons best move to get paid and force a trade is likely to show up and do what Harden did last year. So far he's showed up and obviously not been trying which gives the Sixers the right to fine him and deny him being paid. If the Sixers aren't having to pay a player a huge salary that isn't contributing then they're not losing out very much. If they start the season and look reasonably good, then there will be absolutely zero chance Simmons gets traded at any point soon.

Morey is obviously full of shit about waiting 4 years to trade him, but by this point Simmons should realize he has little choice but to show up and give the bare minimum in effort. I know people are eager to compare this to Kawhi and Harden, but I think Philly treated Simmons way worse than either of those other two EVER got treated. Especially Kawhi.

[MannyIsGod]

Whether it's David Robinson, Kawhi Leonard, or Zach Collins, if the player is physically unable to play, then the team still has to pay.
Ben Simmons back problem may be fake, but proving otherwise will be tough.

I don't believe this for a second. Simmons has shown that he has wanted to get out of playing all offseason. I think any reasonable smart lawyer can easily point that out and show that an injury that just props up out of no where and has no medical support is bullshit. Its like when Trump did nothing but tweet about muslim bans then tried calling it a travel ban and the courts said no you dumb fuck.

He's honestly handled it very stupidly. Pretty bad look for Klutch imo.

[BatManu20]

Softest MF’er in the league. Mental midget.


1451562599418576907

1451564412976996352

[MannyIsGod]

Honestly I'm at the point where I'll ride with DJM over this dude.

[Leetonidas]

Wow, how pathetic :lol

[Mal]

Sixers lost every single leverage they had. They cannot fine him, because mental health awareness is trendy.

[Chinook]

As I said on RGM, it's entirely possible that, rather than the mental issue being the latest excuse for Simmons not playing, it's been the actual reason this whole time and he used the other stuff as an attempt to cover up for it. We live in a society where a man can't have a mental breakdown without it being seen as a character flaw rather than a medical issue. The dude clearly has some mental hangups when it comes to shooting that just aren't normal. He's been shat on pretty continuously this off-season, including dude's like Kelce who had no reason to bring Simmons up. No amount of money is going to prevent someone who already has issues from being vulnerable to that type of pressure. We don't have to feel sorry for him because of that, but it's certainly something I'm not going to dismiss out of hand.

Despite the shit Philly leaked yesterday, I can totally see a scenario where Simmons explained his mental aversion to playing for the team again, and Morey, famous for his view of players as assets was like, "Yeah, no. You're gonna play for us and like it until your value goes up." For Morey, it's better if Simmons is an asshole than have a condition, because the condition would affect his trade value even more. He remembers Royce White just as clearly as remembers Harden. The blatant unprofessionalism he's shown during this is astounding, even if Simmons is basically wrong. I know I'd absolutely not want to be part of that team as long as he's there. Simmons and even Klutch have refrained from attacking the organization in any way. It's so different than it was with Leonard. Simmons isn't looking to save his reputation -- he doesn't even seem all that concerned about getting money. He seems to mostly just REALLY want out. That doesn't mean the Sixers have to trade him, but it does mean we should reconsider how big of a villain Simmons is. It's like how LeVeon Bell got so much hate for not playing for the Steelers even though he didn't take any money from them that last year and just stuck to his guns about preserving his body. It's easy to be made at missing out on the on-floor product, but ultimately athletes are humans first, and sometimes they'll have to make moves from that perspective.

[tbdog]

Good work, Chinook. This is a bad situation for lots of parties. This is the second 1st pick that has a mental problem at shooting in Philly. It's so odd.

[XDT76]

As I said on RGM, it's entirely possible that, rather than the mental issue being the latest excuse for Simmons not playing, it's been the actual reason this whole time and he used the other stuff as an attempt to cover up for it. We live in a society where a man can't have a mental breakdown without it being seen as a character flaw rather than a medical issue. The dude clearly has some mental hangups when it comes to shooting that just aren't normal. He's been shat on pretty continuously this off-season, including dude's like Kelce who had no reason to bring Simmons up. No amount of money is going to prevent someone who already has issues from being vulnerable to that type of pressure. We don't have to feel sorry for him because of that, but it's certainly something I'm not going to dismiss out of hand.

Despite the shit Philly leaked yesterday, I can totally see a scenario where Simmons explained his mental aversion to playing for the team again, and Morey, famous for his view of players as assets was like, "Yeah, no. You're gonna play for us and like it until your value goes up." For Morey, it's better if Simmons is an asshole than have a condition, because the condition would affect his trade value even more. He remembers Royce White just as clearly as remembers Harden. The blatant unprofessionalism he's shown during this is astounding, even if Simmons is basically wrong. I know I'd absolutely not want to be part of that team as long as he's there. Simmons and even Klutch have refrained from attacking the organization in any way. It's so different than it was with Leonard. Simmons isn't looking to save his reputation -- he doesn't even seem all that concerned about getting money. He seems to mostly just REALLY want out. That doesn't mean the Sixers have to trade him, but it does mean we should reconsider how big of a villain Simmons is. It's like how LeVeon Bell got so much hate for not playing for the Steelers even though he didn't take any money from them that last year and just stuck to his guns about preserving his body. It's easy to be made at missing out on the on-floor product, but ultimately athletes are humans first, and sometimes they'll have to make moves from that perspective.

BS is just not smart enough, he should just go TC and then engage a psychiatrist and said that being among the team gave him depression. Let it leak and then play like shit and blame it on the depression. Then just chucking 3pts once he got the ball pass half court, ignoring the result saying that he felt the impulse to Chuck 3s. :lol

[MannyIsGod]

As I said on RGM, it's entirely possible that, rather than the mental issue being the latest excuse for Simmons not playing, it's been the actual reason this whole time and he used the other stuff as an attempt to cover up for it. We live in a society where a man can't have a mental breakdown without it being seen as a character flaw rather than a medical issue. The dude clearly has some mental hangups when it comes to shooting that just aren't normal. He's been shat on pretty continuously this off-season, including dude's like Kelce who had no reason to bring Simmons up. No amount of money is going to prevent someone who already has issues from being vulnerable to that type of pressure. We don't have to feel sorry for him because of that, but it's certainly something I'm not going to dismiss out of hand.

Despite the shit Philly leaked yesterday, I can totally see a scenario where Simmons explained his mental aversion to playing for the team again, and Morey, famous for his view of players as assets was like, "Yeah, no. You're gonna play for us and like it until your value goes up." For Morey, it's better if Simmons is an asshole than have a condition, because the condition would affect his trade value even more. He remembers Royce White just as clearly as remembers Harden. The blatant unprofessionalism he's shown during this is astounding, even if Simmons is basically wrong. I know I'd absolutely not want to be part of that team as long as he's there. Simmons and even Klutch have refrained from attacking the organization in any way. It's so different than it was with Leonard. Simmons isn't looking to save his reputation -- he doesn't even seem all that concerned about getting money. He seems to mostly just REALLY want out. That doesn't mean the Sixers have to trade him, but it does mean we should reconsider how big of a villain Simmons is. It's like how LeVeon Bell got so much hate for not playing for the Steelers even though he didn't take any money from them that last year and just stuck to his guns about preserving his body. It's easy to be made at missing out on the on-floor product, but ultimately athletes are humans first, and sometimes they'll have to make moves from that perspective.

This is fair, but its also hard to give Simmons the benefit of the doubt. That being said, you're 100% right that we shouldn't just write him off because of the way mental shit is viewed in our society.

[manufan10]

1451582221152710662

[John B]

As I said on RGM, it's entirely possible that, rather than the mental issue being the latest excuse for Simmons not playing, it's been the actual reason this whole time and he used the other stuff as an attempt to cover up for it. We live in a society where a man can't have a mental breakdown without it being seen as a character flaw rather than a medical issue. The dude clearly has some mental hangups when it comes to shooting that just aren't normal. He's been shat on pretty continuously this off-season, including dude's like Kelce who had no reason to bring Simmons up. No amount of money is going to prevent someone who already has issues from being vulnerable to that type of pressure. We don't have to feel sorry for him because of that, but it's certainly something I'm not going to dismiss out of hand.

Despite the shit Philly leaked yesterday, I can totally see a scenario where Simmons explained his mental aversion to playing for the team again, and Morey, famous for his view of players as assets was like, "Yeah, no. You're gonna play for us and like it until your value goes up." For Morey, it's better if Simmons is an asshole than have a condition, because the condition would affect his trade value even more. He remembers Royce White just as clearly as remembers Harden. The blatant unprofessionalism he's shown during this is astounding, even if Simmons is basically wrong. I know I'd absolutely not want to be part of that team as long as he's there. Simmons and even Klutch have refrained from attacking the organization in any way. It's so different than it was with Leonard. Simmons isn't looking to save his reputation -- he doesn't even seem all that concerned about getting money. He seems to mostly just REALLY want out. That doesn't mean the Sixers have to trade him, but it does mean we should reconsider how big of a villain Simmons is. It's like how LeVeon Bell got so much hate for not playing for the Steelers even though he didn't take any money from them that last year and just stuck to his guns about preserving his body. It's easy to be made at missing out on the on-floor product, but ultimately athletes are humans first, and sometimes they'll have to make moves from that perspective.

Good take. That mental health is serious, especially after that Morey’s arrogance in his interview yesterday. Why he’s not fired yet, I don’t know.

[Maddog]

Honestly I'm at the point where I'll ride with DJM over this dude.

https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1=simmobe01&p1yrfrom=2021&player_id2=murrade01&p2yrfrom=2021#stats-per_game

Of course advanced stats favor Simmons, but basic stats are not that far off
DJM is two months younger,
DJM owed 49 Million
Simmons 140 million

[acoelho1]

1451582221152710662

Basically, he found his loophole to avoid providing services. I want no part of his unprofessional and selfish behavior on our squad and clearly doesn't not have the mental makeup to handle any sort of adversity.

[HankChinaski]

This dude should just retire IF he is truly suffering from mental health due to pressure of performance anxiety or the pressure of media scrutiny whatever he is claiming if a sports psychiatry can help him fine seek the help you need to mitigate the profound stress of making multimillion dollars annually for putting a ball through a bucket for something he spent years doing prior to getting paid for it. Pfft.

But I don't buy it. Just another excuse to behave like an entitled brat.

[HankChinaski]

TINCUP II starring Ben Simmons and a Kardashian as his mental health expert love interest with Doc Rivers as Cheech Marin

[cjw]

He's been shat on pretty continuously this off-season, including dude's like Kelce who had no reason to bring Simmons up.

Kelce went in pretty hard at Simmons. But he has a point. Philly is not a hard place to play if you give it your all - especially if you have the talent (he should know, he’s a perennial top player at his position). The fans will love you unconditionally. But the second you stop giving effort, and Simmons was checked out last year, you’ll have a really hard time getting on their good side again.

Funniest part of the Kelce monologue was how he made fun of Jacksonville. Said it’s hard to play there because fans don’t care.

Simmons belongs with a fan base that doesn’t care like Minnesota.

[Larry O]

Basically, he found his loophole to avoid providing services. I want no part of his unprofessional and selfish behavior on our squad and clearly doesn't not have the mental makeup to handle any sort of adversity.

Yeah, this is my initial thoughts as well. It would be like your lawyer telling you in a criminal case, to plead insanity in order to either get out of the case or take a lesser charge against you. Any who, even if Simmons is legit or not, this is definitely a good card to deal, with a high possibility that it will play in his favor. :popcorn

[Chinook]

Kelce went in pretty hard at Simmons. But he has a point. Philly is not a hard place to play if you give it your all - especially if you have the talent (he should know, he’s a perennial top player at his position). The fans will love you unconditionally. But the second you stop giving effort, and Simmons was checked out last year, you’ll have a really hard time getting on their good side again.

Funniest part of the Kelce monologue was how he made fun of Jacksonville. Said it’s hard to play there because fans don’t care.

Simmons belongs with a fan base that doesn’t care like Minnesota.

Fans boo'd McNabb the day he was drafted and were basically luke-warm on him until the day they traded him. Kelce has never had the pressure on him that Simmons, McNabb or even Wentz has. It'd be like TJ McConnell talking shit. I was in the city for their WS win in 2008, their AFCC run a few months later as well through the beginning of the Hinkie tenure. I have had plenty of experience with their fandom at this point.

[rjv]

As I said on RGM, it's entirely possible that, rather than the mental issue being the latest excuse for Simmons not playing, it's been the actual reason this whole time and he used the other stuff as an attempt to cover up for it. We live in a society where a man can't have a mental breakdown without it being seen as a character flaw rather than a medical issue. The dude clearly has some mental hangups when it comes to shooting that just aren't normal. He's been shat on pretty continuously this off-season, including dude's like Kelce who had no reason to bring Simmons up. No amount of money is going to prevent someone who already has issues from being vulnerable to that type of pressure. We don't have to feel sorry for him because of that, but it's certainly something I'm not going to dismiss out of hand.

Despite the shit Philly leaked yesterday, I can totally see a scenario where Simmons explained his mental aversion to playing for the team again, and Morey, famous for his view of players as assets was like, "Yeah, no. You're gonna play for us and like it until your value goes up." For Morey, it's better if Simmons is an asshole than have a condition, because the condition would affect his trade value even more. He remembers Royce White just as clearly as remembers Harden. The blatant unprofessionalism he's shown during this is astounding, even if Simmons is basically wrong. I know I'd absolutely not want to be part of that team as long as he's there. Simmons and even Klutch have refrained from attacking the organization in any way. It's so different than it was with Leonard. Simmons isn't looking to save his reputation -- he doesn't even seem all that concerned about getting money. He seems to mostly just REALLY want out. That doesn't mean the Sixers have to trade him, but it does mean we should reconsider how big of a villain Simmons is. It's like how LeVeon Bell got so much hate for not playing for the Steelers even though he didn't take any money from them that last year and just stuck to his guns about preserving his body. It's easy to be made at missing out on the on-floor product, but ultimately athletes are humans first, and sometimes they'll have to make moves from that perspective.

nice take and thanks for posting these observations. the fact that so many people doubt mental illness (or "issues"), makes it that much more difficult for someone to claim mental illness. how someone can claim to know whether or not someone is struggling with personal struggles based on mere conjecture is troubling. shouldn't the norm be that we defer that one is actually struggling versus assuming that person to be feigning a mental condition?

[manufan10]

I think the issue people have now is not the claim itself but the timing of the claim. If he would have come out a few days earlier with the mental health claim people would be more inclined to believe him. But first it was the half-assed appearances at practice, then getting kicked out of practice and suspended for a game, and then he comes back and says his back is hurt followed by the mental health issue. It just looks like he's trying to find any excuse to be out.

[spurraider21]

Fans boo'd McNabb the day he was drafted and were basically luke-warm on him until the day they traded him. Kelce has never had the pressure on him that Simmons, McNabb or even Wentz has. It'd be like TJ McConnell talking shit. I was in the city for their WS win in 2008, their AFCC run a few months later as well through the beginning of the Hinkie tenure. I have had plenty of experience with their fandom at this point.
eagles fans hated andy reid too lol

they always loved Brian Westbrook, DeSean Jackson, and LeSean McCoy though

[Chinook]

I think the issue people have now is not the claim itself but the timing of the claim. If he would have come out a few days earlier with the mental health claim people would be more inclined to believe him. But first it was the half-assed appearances at practice, then getting kicked out of practice and suspended for a game, and then he comes back and says his back is hurt followed by the mental health issue. It just looks like he's trying to find any excuse to be out.

A lot of people don't admit to a mental problem until they have to. He's been called soft and weak for months now. It wouldn't surprise me at all if he was frankly scared of admitting his struggles in that climate. I actually find it more believable that he's saying this after an off-season of contention than if he had come out and said this immediately after the off-season. Again, anyone who thinks potential mental issues are JUST NOW coming up for Simmons hasn't been following him closely. Not to mention the family shit he has going on right now.

[KobesAchilles]

I love how shitty Adam Silver is as a commissioner. Dude is begging Morey to clean up his fucking mess. I wouldn’t be surprised at the next CBA if there’s a clause that stops this shit the players are pulling.

Adam Silver did NOTHING to help the Spurs. And the entire media backed Kawhi and gave us hell for it. Then AD does the same shit to NO and again Silver did nothing and the media was all for it. But now big market teams are getting fucked and it’s awesome. Houston with Harden. Philly with Simmons. Hopefully Luka and Dallas. Silver has zero management skills and it shows. It’s all up to the owners now. And the way the players are acting, the fans aren’t gonna give a shit if they do hold out.

[Chinook]

eagles fans hated andy reid too lol

they always loved Brian Westbrook, DeSean Jackson, and LeSean McCoy though

To be fair, Brian is the best Westbrook. I don't know how much they like Jackson and McCoy though. I remember they had their fallings out with Chip Kelly, and in Jackson's case at least a lot of people were too willing to side with the racist suggestions Kelly made about him. That has a lot to do with folks getting conned by coaches like Kelly, Kiffin and McDaniels and trusting them over vets. That's its own conversation though.