Stein: Chatter Circulating About The Spurs' Attempts To "Barge" Their Way Into Simmons Sweepstakes

[Chinook]

I love how shitty Adam Silver is as a commissioner. Dude is begging Morey to clean up his fucking mess. I wouldn’t be surprised at the next CBA if there’s a clause that stops this shit the players are pulling.

Adam Silver did NOTHING to help the Spurs. And the entire media backed Kawhi and gave us hell for it. Then AD does the same shit to NO and again Silver did nothing and the media was all for it. But now big market teams are getting fucked and it’s awesome. Houston with Harden. Philly with Simmons. Hopefully Luka and Dallas. Silver has zero management skills and it shows. It’s all up to the owners now. And the way the players are acting, the fans aren’t gonna give a shit if they do hold out.

The NBA is making more money than ever. There are a number of things I don't like about the league anymore, but Silver taking a light hand generates the buzz that convinces companies like Turner and Disney to fork over billions on TV deals.

I'd also caution against the belief that owners have the standing to "discipline" the players as a collective group. The NBPA and NBA are partners that need each other to exist. They're one of the truest balances of labor and capital in the country. I'm not in favor of players stealing money and certainly not of them fucking over teams, but I don't think the solution is or should be giving owners more power. Rather it should be in the players coming up with a better culture that takes pride in parity and the willingness to work with front offices rather than have an antagonistic relationship with them.

[Manu&Duncan fan]

Thank you Chinook! Your input is fair and balanced!

[cjw]

Fans boo'd McNabb the day he was drafted and were basically luke-warm on him until the day they traded him. Kelce has never had the pressure on him that Simmons, McNabb or even Wentz has. It'd be like TJ McConnell talking shit. I was in the city for their WS win in 2008, their AFCC run a few months later as well through the beginning of the Hinkie tenure. I have had plenty of experience with their fandom at this point.

I’ve seen the highs and lows too (was in Philly a few years before yours and saw three title game appearances and the highest of highs and the lowest of lows with McNabb).

True, Kelce doesn’t play a position that is as much in the spotlight as others but he’s consistently one of the top few guys at his position each and every year. He also bleeds Philadelphia and is a mainstay at Sixers games.

There’s tough love and there’s hate. Philly fans will boo Bryce Harper if he doesn’t run out a ground ball hard and he can redeem it next time he’s up. But when Aaron Rowand breaks his nose running into the CF fence, he’ll never have to buy a beer in town again.

With Simmons, it makes the Wentz situation look like a walk in the park right now. Wentz was the reason they were even in Super Bowl contention that one year, and made a critical pass on a torn ACL. And left it all on the field up until last season. Meanwhile, Simmons can’t even take a wide open layup in the playoffs.

[Manu&Duncan fan]

Now I feel more empathy toward Simmons. We cannot underestimate mental issues. A normal person cannot have so much pressure that only make 34% of this free throws in the playoff. Sorry Ben. Why not tell us earlier?

[RD2191]

Love this shit by Ben, trolling the fuck out of Morey. :lol

[Chinook]

I’ve seen the highs and lows too (was in Philly a few years before yours and saw three title game appearances and the highest of highs and the lowest of lows with McNabb).

True, Kelce doesn’t play a position that is as much in the spotlight as others but he’s consistently one of the top few guys at his position each and every year. He also bleeds Philadelphia and is a mainstay at Sixers games.

There’s tough love and there’s hate. Philly fans will boo Bryce Harper if he doesn’t run out a ground ball hard and he can redeem it next time he’s up. But when Aaron Rowand breaks his nose running into the CF fence, he’ll never have to buy a beer in town again.

With Simmons, it makes the Wentz situation look like a walk in the park right now. Wentz was the reason they were even in Super Bowl contention that one year, and made a critical pass on a torn ACL. And left it all on the field up until last season. Meanwhile, Simmons can’t even take a wide open layup in the playoffs.

Oh yeah. I forgot we share an alma mater. I've been something of an Eagles fan my whole life (started watching back when the Ravens were rarely on TV and there was no NFL team in Texas besides the dreaded Cowboys). So my time in Philly wasn't the start of my experience with the fandom. Certainly like all groups, they have their favorites. Philly doesn't literally hate everyone. Like I haven't met a Sixers fan who doesn't have a good view of Thad for example. I just don't like the idea of mythologizing them and pretending like they're different because you have to earn their trust or whatever. Kelce is possibly better at his job than Simmons is at his, but even if that's true, Simmons' job is way more complicated, and Simmons does a lot of things well.

I think Simmons' pass reminds me most of Cam Newton's non-recovery in his Super Bowl against Denver. Both plays have become basically synonymous with the players, but they've both been warped far beyond what they actually are to fit the narratives. Cam wasn't scared of being hit -- he wrong-footed his approach to the ball and was trying to adjust his dive when Denver got on top of it. Dude broke his body and probably his brain making tough runs. How the narrative formed that he was afraid of contact or wasn't willing to get hit to win or whatever is beyond me. But even if it's true that after years of abusing his body it finally told him "no", why is that worth ridicule? I don't care how many former players who are going to end up as drooling messes with Swiss cheese brains want to waste their last bit of coherency talking about "toughness".

Simmons' mistake was making a bad read. He calculated that he could get Thybulle a better shot than he could take himself. On RGM, a Philly fan posted a gif with another angle of the pass, and it's even more obvious there that Simmons thought he was going to draw Thybulle's defender and get his teammate and open dunk. While he had a scoring chance, he also had multiple guys converging on him who could've stopped the shot. For what reason other than the bullshit "alpha mentality" would he rather be fouled as a bad free-throw shooter if he can give someone else a dunk? In the end, his misread was that Atlanta was ready for the pass -- and yes, that can be an indictment of Simmons' scoring effectiveness. Because of that, he probably could've gotten the shot up before anyone could foul him. But Atlanta was being really aggressive all game. I can understand Simmons' read, even though it was wrong. Plus, it wasn't actually a critical play. When you have a two possession game with more than three minutes left, a passed up basket isn't the reason you lose. It shouldn't've even been a consideration for Doc or Embiid to talk about.

[ismael-robert]

Yall still here. Move this to nba forum nothing to do with Spurs

[exstatic]

Yall still here. Move this to nba forum nothing to do with Spurs

If the thread offends you, don’t click on it.

[tonight...you]

If the thread offends you, don’t click on it.
Lol, that guy thinks this place is actually moderated.
It barely is.

[CGD]

I sincerely hope he’s honest about the mental health thing. It would be a shame if it’s, in fact, a transparent play to get paid. Mental health is serious.

[Ice009]

A lot of people don't admit to a mental problem until they have to. He's been called soft and weak for months now. It wouldn't surprise me at all if he was frankly scared of admitting his struggles in that climate. I actually find it more believable that he's saying this after an off-season of contention than if he had come out and said this immediately after the off-season. Again, anyone who thinks potential mental issues are JUST NOW coming up for Simmons hasn't been following him closely. Not to mention the family shit he has going on right now.

You may be right. What family stuff/problems are your referring to? What is going on there?

[Chinook]

You may be right. What family stuff/problems are your referring to? What is going on there?

His sister is saying their brother (who at least was his manager) molested her when she and Ben were kids. I wouldn't assume that means something happened to Ben (though as Lonnie reminds us, Ben a big strong NBA player doesn't change the fact that we're all vulnerable children at one point), but obviously that's kind of thing that blows up a family.

[John B]

His sister is saying their brother (who at least was his manager) molested her when she and Ben were kids. I wouldn't assume that means something happened to Ben (though as Lonnie reminds us, Ben a big strong NBA player doesn't change the fact that we're all vulnerable children at one point), but obviously that's kind of thing that blows up a family.

I’m no psychiatrist, but tough situations could trigger those emotions back. His distrust on authorities and people especially those who he thought were protecting him, but instead turned against him. If that incident was true with his sister, and possibly him, that would be tough to overcome and emotions easily resurface especially if not properly fixed and just buried. I’d be very careful how Morey proceeds. He could be viewed as a bully, as if he’s not already. Mental health is a serious issue, and especially if there’s a mitigating circumstances like what Simmons and his sister experienced.

[ismael-robert]

If the thread offends you, don’t click on it.

I just feel sorry for yall lol

[slick'81]

I just feel sorry for yall lol

This is an internet message board. Not reality . Let fans talk whatever scenarios they like. Doesn't effect you,tbh

[james evans]

I'm fine with passing on Simmons but, I'm going to push back a little here .. Having a second fiddle (a Pippen or Draymond) makes it more attractive and easier for a #1 guy to come here...in fact I don't think any #1 would even consider us without a clear #2 being in place...
have you ever seen Pippen play in his prime, or are you repeating the ESPN/jordan fans rhetoric that Jordan handpicked 11 guys off the street and took them to 6 titles? Pippen couldn't score??? lol. To even compare Pippen's offense to Draymond or Simmons is a goddamn insult. Go back and look at game 3 of the '93 ECF when the bulls were down 0-2 and Jordan continued to play like shit that game.

[mo7888]

have you ever seen Pippen play in his prime, or are you repeating the ESPN/jordan fans rhetoric that Jordan handpicked 11 guys off the street and took them to 6 titles? Pippen couldn't score??? lol. To even compare Pippen's offense to Draymond or Simmons is a goddamn insult. Go back and look at game 3 of the '93 ECF when the bulls were down 0-2 and Jordan continued to play like shit that game.

Puhleeze.... the comparison isn't that dray or Ben are as good as Pippen....that's silly....the comparison is that Pippen is second fiddle to the teams alpha and that the role ben and dray played last year... so don't get panties all in a wad over nothing..

[ismael-robert]

Spurs msg board

[exstatic]

Spurs msg board

Simply don’t click on the thread. You know what in here, but you keep clicking and commenting. Do you think that will accomplish your goal? You’re keeping it up near the top with your incessant whining.

[K...]

this spurs season is going to be so boring that a thread like this is fine. What the fuck, lets make a new kawhi thread and bring the "jimmer cant eat eat unless avocado is involved" upstairs

[John B]

Spurs msg board

That fact that Spurs offered for Simmons makes this a related thread. And there’s Thad Young who does not fit the composition of this team. Obviously a trade is still at work and more likely had to do with Simmons, either as the main player or a 3rd team. It’s possible that this could drag till mid-December. How does that benefit Morey, with them no longer penalizing Simmons due to mental health issue? So he’s paying this guy to sit instead of getting somebody who can actually contribute now, and getting as early as possible to acclimate with the team. I don't really know what Morey is thinking to accomplish than shoving to Simmons face. I doubt Simmons would ever play better than he did last for them playoffs if he forced him to stay. In the meantime, Spurs are stuck with Young.

[Spursfanfromafar]

Performing at a high level on defense and flopping on only the shooting aspect of offense doesn't scream mental health issues, just plain incompetence on one aspect of offense that has to do with technical flaws and a laziness to correct that issue. Mental health is too serious a subject to be reduced to inability to master one aspect of a game. Sad that Simmons is using this as a card to be spared of the fines.

[lmbebo]

That fact that Spurs offered for Simmons makes this a related thread. And there’s Thad Young who does not fit the composition of this team. Obviously a thread was still at work and more likely had to do with Simmons, either as the main player or a 3rd team. It’s possible this could drag till mid-December. How does that benefit Morey, with them no longer penalizing Simmons due to mental health issue. So he’s paying this guy to sit instead of getting somebody who csn actually contribute, and as early as possible to acclimate with the team. I don't really what Morey is thinking to accomplish. I doubt Simmons ever play better than he did last playoff. In the meantime, Spurs are stuck with Young.

My guess is that Spurs will finally trade Young to Phoenix for Smith and a pair of 2n rounders

[John B]

My guess is that Spurs will finally trade Young to Phoenix for Smith and a pair of 2n rounders

I’d rather take that. At least Smith is in line with the rest of our youth, plus whatever picks they get. This team is not built to win now, so Thad is just taking away from Londale’s development or Zollins when he gets healthy.

[ginobilized]

My guess is that Spurs will finally trade Young to Phoenix for Smith and a pair of 2n rounders

I hope this happens, Jalen Smith fits well with the youngsters. Recent history with Demarre Carroll might suggest otherwise, though.

[mo7888]

My guess is that Spurs will finally trade Young to Phoenix for Smith and a pair of 2n rounders

At this point I'd take that... but I'd hope we could get a first if we added a couple 2nd's with Thad.

[bluebellmaniac]

My guess is that Spurs will finally trade Young to Phoenix for Smith and a pair of 2n rounders

How would that work? Phoenix is over the cap. So salaries would have to match. ???

[slick'81]

At this point I'd take that... but I'd hope we could get a first if we added a couple 2nd's with Thad.

That def would be a miracle

[Chinook]

At this point I'd take that... but I'd hope we could get a first if we added a couple 2nd's with Thad.

Which seconds? Like I wouldn't trade the Detroit second for the Phoneix first, especially given they can't even give up a first earlier than 2024. That's even more true considering the team has to take on Saric's and Smith's salaries for next year and Smith's salary for 22/23 if the Suns pick it up. That's a lot of money to move up like five spots and back two years.

[Trueblood]

How would that work? Phoenix is over the cap. So salaries would have to match. ???

We have to take Saric also who is dead money since he is out all year. But Saric/Smith for Young works financially. Who gets what picks really determins which team values which player(s) more.

[Seventyniner]

We have to take Saric also who is dead money since he is out all year. But Saric/Smith for Young works financially. Who gets what picks really determins which team values which player(s) more.

Who would you cut? Cutting Saric makes his 2022-2023 money completely dead iirc, and the Spurs already cut Samanic (former 1st rounder) and Aminu (potentially salary ballast) due to lack of roster spots.

[mo7888]

Which seconds? Like I wouldn't trade the Detroit second for the Phoneix first, especially given they can't even give up a first earlier than 2024. That's even more true considering the team has to take on Saric's and Smith's salaries for next year and Smith's salary for 22/23 if the Suns pick it up. That's a lot of money to move up like five spots and back two years.

I'm not sure which two we'd have to give up but, I was thinking two of our future 2nd's.

[Kevin]

Just browsed Suns Twitter and Smith just sounds like a bust despite being drafted 10th overall two years ago. Plus they missed their chance to get him into camp.

Still him and Primo would make Austin fun to track.

[The Truth #6]

I think Jalen had a good Summer League. Could be a buy low scenario. Yet, what minutes do we have for him? With ZaCo needing an eventual audition, and Landale not even getting minutes yet, not sure how another developing big fits in. That’s the challenge with a young team and an ambiguous pecking order.

Jalen Summer League: https://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2021/8/24/22632368/jalen-smith-phoenix-suns-joins-long-jagged-line-of-all-summer-suns

[Chinook]

Yeah, a trade now would almost certainly be Young and Eubanks for Smith and Saric, and I think that needs a first to even out value.

[tbdog]

Yeah, a trade now would almost certainly be Young and Eubanks for Smith and Saric, and I think that needs a first to even out value.

Can spurs survive with two injured players or would they buy out saric?

[Chinook]

Can spurs survive with two injured players or would they buy out saric?

They wouldn't do this trade unless they liked Smith WAY more than we think they do. Young can play center, but after this trade, the depth chart would just be Poeltl, Landale, Smith and Cacok. They would be okay at PF resting Saric, but they NEED a center, even in the modern NBA, so their shaky depth behind Poeltl would be a concern. But far the best way to balance the value of the trade is to have Collins instead of Eubanks go out. That still saves Phoenix a lot of long-term salary while also getting the Spurs out of a potential mistake. But even then, I wouldn't do it for free unless Smith was a least a playable prospect.

[Seventyniner]

They wouldn't do this trade unless they liked Smith WAY more than we think they do. Young can play center, but after this trade, the depth chart would just be Poeltl, Landale, Smith and Cacok. They would be okay at PF resting Saric, but they NEED a center, even in the modern NBA, so their shaky depth behind Poeltl would be a concern. But far the best way to balance the value of the trade is to have Collins instead of Eubanks go out. That still saves Phoenix a lot of long-term salary while also getting the Spurs out of a potential mistake. But even then, I wouldn't do it for free unless Smith was a least a playable prospect.

Would the Spurs just have to judge Smith on his past videos, or would they be able to interview and work him out? With the Suns' permission, of course.

[MannyIsGod]

Would the Spurs just have to judge Smith on his past videos, or would they be able to interview and work him out? With the Suns' permission, of course.

I don't think work outs are ever parts of trades. At this point with NBA players its a pretty well known comodity.

I don't see the Suns trade happening. I still think Young just gets bought out unless they can get an easy first for him.

[mo7888]

They wouldn't do this trade unless they liked Smith WAY more than we think they do. Young can play center, but after this trade, the depth chart would just be Poeltl, Landale, Smith and Cacok. They would be okay at PF resting Saric, but they NEED a center, even in the modern NBA, so their shaky depth behind Poeltl would be a concern. But far the best way to balance the value of the trade is to have Collins instead of Eubanks go out. That still saves Phoenix a lot of long-term salary while also getting the Spurs out of a potential mistake. But even then, I wouldn't do it for free unless Smith was a least a playable prospect.

I don't think the Spurs view Zollins as a potential mistake yet though... they signed him for a reason and until he gets on the court it's safe to say they value him at this point.

[Chinook]

I don't think the Spurs view Zollins as a potential mistake yet though... they signed him for a reason and until he gets on the court it's safe to say they value him at this point.

I don't think the Spurs view him as a mistake now and probably wouldn't any time this season if his ankles stay attached to his body. I agree there. My point is that from a money perspective, including Collins with Young makes sense for both sides. The Spurs only take on $2 Million or so more than they're already expected to take on (I strongly doubt the Spurs will view half of Zach's salary as enough savings to give up their flier next summer), and from Phoenix's perspective, they're still saving like $5 Million against next season's cap -- maybe more if they stretch Collins. So they get most of what they want without it incumbering the Spurs as much. That takes away some of the necessary value the Spurs need to make this worth their participation.

I'd hope there's no chance the Spurs would be willing to trade Eubanks and have a second IR spot without a sizeable return coming back.

[slick'81]

I don't think work outs are ever parts of trades. At this point with NBA players its a pretty well known comodity.

I don't see the Suns trade happening. I still think Young just gets bought out unless they can get an easy first for him.


Hell be bought out. No one is giving up a first for a guy playing a 12th man role

[John B]

Hell be bought out. No one is giving up a first for a guy playing a 12th man role

He should’ve been traded before the season started. Now Pop is forced to showcase that the guy still has it. Young needs to play good to earn his next contract though. We could’ve been seeing Londale. Morey dragging Simmons situations I think really messed us up, not necessarily as the major trade player but could be 3rd team facilitating. I just thought Spurs have been always on this kind of trade scenario lately, fault or no fault of theirs, but maybe lack the highsight?

[james evans]

He should’ve been traded before the season started. Now Pop is forced to showcase that the guy still has it. Young needs to play good to earn his next contract though. We could’ve been seeing Londale. Morey dragging Simmons situations I think really messed us up, not necessarily as the major trade player but could be 3rd team facilitating. I just thought Spurs have been always on this kind of trade scenario lately, fault or no fault of theirs, but maybe lack the highsight?
he'll get a contract extension and then bought out.. It's the Spurs way of saying "thank you"

[LkrFan]

*BUMP*

Pop is the only coach that can reach Ben. Lonnie Walker, DeJounte Murray and Derrick White (http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yh8qr3dk) works. Do it RC.

[exstatic]

LOL. Phoenix is trying to dump their trash on us, knowing that we are one of the few teams that could fuck them over next summer with a MAX offer sheet to Ayton, forcing them to pay him.

No thanks.

[james evans]

I like Ayton, but I don't like pairing him with popovich. This could be an Aldridge/Jefferson situation again and the whole site will be wanting him gone within 2 years.

[John B]

Now it’s time to offer DJ and Thad again. Seriously, DJ has been playing great and really looking he’s on a mission. And last night Thad showed he still has it. I wonder if Pop have PATFO changed their minds.

[Fusternino]

Was just at 76ers-Hawks. 76ers role players played really loose and free and they still had plenty of guys to guard and frustrate Trae Young. Embiid didn't even play a particularly great game.

Sort of looked like addition by subtraction, but I dunno.

[Dejounte]

https://youtu.be/9wwjTD6ZGr8

[exstatic]

Now it’s time to offer DJ and Thad again. Seriously, DJ has been playing great and really looking he’s on a mission. And last night Thad showed he still has it. I wonder if Pop have PATFO changed their minds.

Apparently, DJ has NEVER been offered.

[pookenstein]

Apparently, DJ has NEVER been offered.

Was DJ part of the HEB commercials? I don't know for sure, but if not, I think he's not untouchable.

[slick'81]

Apparently, DJ has NEVER been offered.

if they never offered dj then they must not have been seriously considering simmons

[poopbox]

Apparently, DJ has NEVER been offered.

As he shouldn't be, because when you factor in contracts he is WAY more valuable of a player than Simmons.

Even Wright is smart enough to understand this :lol

[Maddog]

if they never offered dj then they must not have been seriously considering simmons

I suspect that is and always was true

[Chinook]

Was DJ part of the HEB commercials? I don't know for sure, but if not, I think he's not untouchable.

As far as we know he wasn't. But dude is still grieving and probably doesn't want to be in commercials. I also don't think the team is beholden to HEB as to whom they'll trade.

The Spurs' offer may have been Aminu, Young and sweetener. Would make sense if that's why Morey asked for seven picks or whatever. I do think DJM and White have been part of trade discussions -- just too much smoke over the past couple of years. But I also think the Spurs value them both highly and are probably much more keen to add to them than try to improve upon them.

[Mr. Body]

if they never offered dj then they must not have been seriously considering simmons

They never were. I don't know why people don't get this.

[RC_Drunkford]

trading Murray for Simmons would be borderline stupid. I'm not even sure if Simmons is better than DJ. Give DJ another season and he's a better version of prime Westbrook

[Dverde]

I still DJ would have been traded if pushed. Maybe Spurs were pushing DDR sign and trade for Simmons.

[baseline bum]

I wanted Simmons on October 1st if they could have gotten him cheap, but November 1st? No thanks. Not eager to pay a guy $33 million this season when he's not going to have training camp and preseason to get into basketball shape and will have to do it in the regular season. And on the off chance that his mental issues keeping him out of games are actually legit, do not want. Plus White and Young look like shit while Murray is looking like the guy we hoped he would be before tearing his ACL in the 2018 preseason. So you'd be giving up the one real bright spot on this roster for a crew Simmons wouldn't lead to the playoffs while almost certainly losing your tank year first round pick in the trade. Simmons is a total no-go now as far as I'm concerned, that ship has hopefully sailed.

[ismael-robert]

JohnB...dj tearing it up let's trade him for a worse player with mental issues. Way to try to resurrect this thread but spurs have not been part of these discussions for months now...notice how it changed to Thad for Smith...no one even talking bout Ben n no one wants him

[Mr. Body]

I still DJ would have been traded if pushed. Maybe Spurs were pushing DDR sign and trade for Simmons.

There's no fucking way the Spurs were ever interested in Simmons. Not with his attitude.

[cd98]

Well I’m sure the Spurs were interested. But the asking price was too high and certainly his trade value is diminished. All he can do is tank his value and disrupt the team if he wants a trade. I’m sure lots of teams would trade for him if the price were right.

[MannyIsGod]

I wanted Simmons on October 1st if they could have gotten him cheap, but November 1st? No thanks. Not eager to pay a guy $33 million this season when he's not going to have training camp and preseason to get into basketball shape and will have to do it in the regular season. And on the off chance that his mental issues keeping him out of games are actually legit, do not want. Plus White and Young look like shit while Murray is looking like the guy we hoped he would be before tearing his ACL in the 2018 preseason. So you'd be giving up the one real bright spot on this roster for a crew Simmons wouldn't lead to the playoffs while almost certainly losing your tank year first round pick in the trade. Simmons is a total no-go now as far as I'm concerned, that ship has hopefully sailed.

At this point, why would we want Simmons over DJM at a much cheaper price? I would have been on board back then too, but not anymore.

[baseline bum]

At this point, why would we want Simmons over DJM at a much cheaper price? I would have been on board back then too, but not anymore.

Think Philly is really going to regret not trading for Murray. Same way they must regret not being willing to give up Fultz when Leonard was available. Simmons' stock just has to be tanking.

[mo7888]

Looks like the Celtics are interested in Simmons this morning according to Shams...others are saying the offer centers around Smart, Nesmith, and filler...(no Brown or Tatum of course)..

[Leetonidas]

And of course the Sixers want one of Brown or Tatum back both who are superior players to Simmons so that's not going anywhere :lol

[Kurgan]

This sounds like a plant by Morey to drum up interest in Simmons again now that they're back to fining him. Stevens doesn't seem to be the type to let front office business leak so blatantly

[John B]

I don’t know what Spurs’ offer was. If it includes DJM (plus Young and picks), that’s still a better offer imo.

[TDomination]

https://youtu.be/9wwjTD6ZGr8

this is a very good video. i never realized how bad ben simmons is. i mean for the money he makes.

[exstatic]

I’m not sure why Simmons is still in Philly, if they’re just going to fine him his entire salary anyway.

[baseline bum]

Looks like the Celtics are interested in Simmons this morning according to Shams...others are saying the offer centers around Smart, Nesmith, and filler...(no Brown or Tatum of course)..

Man Celtics are almost as much of a disappointment as the Lakers this year. They gotta be desperate to shake that team up, though their main problems are probably Tatum not finishing at the rim and Brown still not really feeling recovered from COVID.

[mo7888]

Man Celtics are almost as much of a disappointment as the Lakers this year. They gotta be desperate to shake that team up, though their main problems are probably Tatum not finishing at the rim and Brown still not really feeling recovered from COVID.

I agree....and if they include JB in that deal then Brad Stevens should be fired on the spot.... I could get it if Smart is the centerpiece but no way JB should even be in the discussions..

[Robz4000]

Man Celtics are almost as much of a disappointment as the Lakers this year. They gotta be desperate to shake that team up, though their main problems are probably Tatum not finishing at the rim and Brown still not really feeling recovered from COVID.

Tatum also hasn't been the same since his boutique with the Rona last season too tbh. That post-COVID funk is no joke.

[Mugen]

I still can't believe the dumbass Sixers passed on trading for Nephew tbh :lol

[dokdok]

Yeh thats crazy that all we asked for was Ben Simmons and the sixers said no for Kawhi. Glad how its all turned out in hindsight. Much rather the roster we have than having Simmons.

[mo7888]

According to Alex Kennedy this morning Philly has a list of 30 players they would consider for Simmons and they've had discussions with Detroit around Jeremi Grant and Olynyk.

[SpurSpike]

According to Alex Kennedy this morning Philly has a list of 30 players they would consider for Simmons and they've had discussions with Detroit around Jeremi Grant and Olynyk.


I read an article yesterday about that. In that article it also said many of those 30 players might become available within the next 2 years lol. The Sixers are legit hinting that they don't mind waiting this out for 2 fucking years! :spin

[MultiTroll]

I read an article yesterday about that. In that article it also said many of those 30 players might become available within the next 2 years lol. The Sixers are legit hinting that they don't mind waiting this out for 2 fucking years! :spin
Excellent. Sixers holding out is what it is going to take to put these prima donnas and the douchebag agent in their places.
Normally i am for the players 100% vs Mr. Burns owners but Simmons situation is pure b.s. on his part.

Any Philly area posters here? I would think Simmons would get hammered if he showed his vagina in public.

[John B]

REPORT: The 76ers and Pistons have discussed a trade that would send Ben Simmons to Detroit and Jerami Grant, a young player, filler, and a pick to Philadelphia, via @PompeyOnSixers.

So if Spurs don’t get to include Thad in this Simmons trade, we keep him until trade deadline?

[mo7888]

REPORT: The 76ers and Pistons have discussed a trade that would send Ben Simmons to Detroit and Jerami Grant, a young player, filler, and a pick to Philadelphia, via @PompeyOnSixers.

So if Spurs don’t get to include Thad in this Simmons trade, we keep him until trade deadline?

I wouldn't be opposed to edging in on that trade using Thad (or White) and taking back longer-term salary to pry Bey out of that deal.

[baseline bum]

I still can't believe the dumbass Sixers passed on trading for Nephew tbh :lol

So he could keep Markelle Fultz :lmao

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Detroit can’t trade any future first round picks unless they make the pick they owe OKC unprotected, which would be monumentally stupid.

[mo7888]

Detroit can’t trade any future first round picks unless they make the pick they owe OKC unprotected, which would be monumentally stupid.

I haven't seen picks mentioned in the Detroit rumors...Bey has been included instead it looks like..

[slick'81]

:rollin Sixers are not taking white or thaddeus young

[mo7888]

:rollin Sixers are not taking white or thaddeus young

I don't think that's necessarily true..if they do the grant deal it'll require 10-15M it make it work for everybody. Right now they are talking about Olynyk but, they might prefer Thad because of his shorter contract...or White for extra ball handling that they'd lose with Ben leaving over 3 years of Olynyk.

[slick'81]

I don't think that's necessarily true..if they do the grant deal it'll require 10-15M it make it work for everybody. Right now they are talking about Olynyk but, they might prefer Thad because of his shorter contract...or White for extra ball handling that they'd lose with Ben leaving over 3 years of Olynyk.


keep hoping broski:tu

[exstatic]

keep hoping broski:tu

People thought we’d get nothing for DeRozan, too, and that’s sitting at a first, two seconds, and Young. Thad has played in Philly before, and is a stand up guy.

I’m not sure how this will work, anyway. Detroit has no extra firsts, and the way the first headed to OKC is super protected, it will likely never convey, or maybe only in 2027, tying up all of the intervening firsts until after the lottery each year. What pick is supposedly headed to Philly?

[mo7888]

People thought we’d get nothing for DeRozan, too, and that’s sitting at a first, two seconds, and Young. Thad has played in Philly before, and is a stand up guy.

I’m not sure how this will work, anyway. Detroit has no extra firsts, and the way the first headed to OKC is super protected, it will likely never convey, or maybe only in 2027, tying up all of the intervening firsts until after the lottery each year. What pick is supposedly headed to Philly?

I haven't seen any mention of Philly getting any picks from Detroit...it was just Grant, Olynyk, and Bey...

[buttsR4rebounding]

I haven't seen any mention of Philly getting any picks from Detroit...it was just Grant, Olynyk, and Bey...

He definitely wouldn’t be the point guard in Detroit.

[talkspurs]

I could see either young or white being involved instead of Bey and bey coming here. They need a PG so white could be a good fit and Young is older and more seasoned. Bey is still inconsistent. I think Bey also fits better on the Spurs then either of these people. I dont see us getting a pick out of it but Bey would be pretty good. I could also see philly liking Bey better though as more long term upside and cheaper contract.

[Degoat]

I’m not buying that Detroit rumor, although that would be like the biggest F You to Ben Simmons to trade him to the pistons lmao

[Seventyniner]

I’m not buying that Detroit rumor, although that would be like the biggest F You to Ben Simmons to trade him to the pistons lmao

I doubt Simmons would play a minute for the Pistons. They would just sit him out and tank imo, while trying to get a haul from another team to flip Simmons to them. Detroit will want a very different return package than Philly so the market might open up.

[talkspurs]

I said before the season that I would not trade Murray for Simmons as Murray was better. While I think more people agree with me I wonder if Exstatic or Chinock would still do they trade? Others that disagreed with me I wonder if they are willing to admit it?

[Dejounte]

I said before the season that I would not trade Murray for Simmons as Murray was better. While I think more people agree with me I wonder if Exstatic or Chinock would still do they trade? Others that disagreed with me I wonder if they are willing to admit it?

Not that these guys would ever change their mind to begin with (it’s just tooooooo hard to admit when we’re wrong), but gloating about something you could be right about makes the other party even more steadfast in their opinion and it helps absolutely nothing. You should have expected nothing before you made this post but now more excuses will flood in after your post.

[Arcadian]

Why?

[John B]

I said before the season that I would not trade Murray for Simmons as Murray was better. While I think more people agree with me I wonder if Exstatic or Chinock would still do they trade? Others that disagreed with me I wonder if they are willing to admit it?

Well he is surely making a believer of me. And to think that Murray could just be scratching the surface. He could still get stronger and finish more with contacts and earn free throws, that would make him an even better closer/finisher, and he needs to be that if he’s to carry this team. Right now, I don’t doubt he would get there the way he’s improved his game every year. He’s almost a triple-double average and has a case in the most improved player conversation and a nod in the AS if this continues.

[Chinook]

I'm not going to lie. I came in here to basically point out that while Murray is playing well, Simmons is still better. But looking at the stats, I don't know that that's true. Don't get me wrong -- defensively and impact-wise, Simmons last year is still ahead of Murray this year. There are certainly still ways to say Ben is a tier or so above Murray. But even adjusting for minutes, DJM is outperforming BS in terms of production while also having a more diverse game. The shooting is a real issue for Murray -- but there's hope that he'll find his way toward overall efficiency soon. Simmons' TS% was superior, and that is a product of him being a much better driver and strong finisher. But without learning to shoot threes or improving his FT%, there's not really any upside that he'll get better. I still lean toward the idea that if you could take last years' Simmons and trade that guy for Murray, Ben would look better, and the Spurs would win more games. But it would rely on all of the other players being great three-point shooters -- especially with Jakob also playing. That hasn't really been the case this year, so it's dicey.

And that's just on-the-court stuff. If Simmons is really going through mental stuff, then he might well be damaged goods. If he isn't, then it's hard to trade for him trusting that he wouldn't do this the next time he wanted out of a situation. I don't have to speak on the cultural impact that Murray's basically had since Day 1. It would be a huge hit to the Spurs losing him for a guy who's listless, whether due to medical issues or just attitude.

I don't think it makes sense to trade Murray for Simmons at this time, and given the team's shooting issues and DJM's high usage, I don't think Simmons makes sense for the Spurs with Murray still on the roster. That can change if Ben gets back to playing and shows he can be the All-NBA player he was before.

[exstatic]

People see them as similar, but they’re really not. DJ is a better shooter, but Simmons is elite at the rim, and he gets there easily in spite of a janky jumper. They both rebound at a high level, and dish out a high number of assists. When you have two players who are close, you look for tie breakers. Size is the most obvious one, and that gives the edge to Ben. He’s also a more natural distributor. DJ has gotten better at the pick and roll, but still misses too many perimeter shooters. I’d still make the trade, although it’s not quite as cut and dried as it was in training camp. It’s all academic, though. According to sauces, neither White nor DJ were offered. This is just a thought exercise.

[XDT76]

People see them as similar, but they’re really not. DJ is a better shooter, but Simmons is elite at the rim, and he gets there easily in spite of a janky jumper. They both rebound at a high level, and dish out a high number of assists. When you have two players who are close, you look for tie breakers. Size is the most obvious one, and that gives the edge to Ben. He’s also a more natural distributor. DJ has gotten better at the pick and roll, but still misses too many perimeter shooters. I’d still make the trade, although it’s not quite as cut and dried as it was in training camp. It’s all academic, though. According to sauces, neither White nor DJ were offered. This is just a thought exercise.

I would rather keep DjM than trade for BS. DjM has been improving every year and BS actually regress a little yearly. Give it another year or 2 their impact on the game would swap around. DjM is also showing his 3s are coming around nicely these last few games. If not for his ACL injury, he might already be better than BS.

[John B]

People see them as similar, but they’re really not. DJ is a better shooter, but Simmons is elite at the rim, and he gets there easily in spite of a janky jumper. They both rebound at a high level, and dish out a high number of assists. When you have two players who are close, you look for tie breakers. Size is the most obvious one, and that gives the edge to Ben. He’s also a more natural distributor. DJ has gotten better at the pick and roll, but still misses too many perimeter shooters. I’d still make the trade, although it’s not quite as cut and dried as it was in training camp. It’s all academic, though. According to sauces, neither White nor DJ were offered. This is just a thought exercise.

Morey would be a fool not to take Murray if he’s offered right now. This version of DJ with the dog attitude is much more than what Sixers had with Simmons in the playoffs. It’s only a few games, but I’m leaning on keeping our guys as it is (not my attitude during the pre-season). Heck if Lonnie could play like that every night, this team would be very fun to watch :lol

[slick'81]

:lol Fck ben simmons

[Atl Spur]

A starting line up of: White, Devin, Ben (point forward), Zach, Jakob . Very difficult to deal with!

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

A starting line up of: White, Devin, Ben (point forward), Zach, Jakob . Very difficult to deal with!

Maybe in 1995, but in 2021 playing with 3 non shooters is suicide.

[Degoat]

I was on the trade for Ben Simmons but no way I’m trading DJ for him tbh

[cjw]

After getting over the initial shock of the trade, Philly fans would be doing backflips after getting a guy who seems to be the polar opposite in terms of being a teammate and not a headcase. Murray would be a Philly favorite.

For me, the question is no longer what I’d have to give up in addition to Murray to get Simmons. It’s whether I would do a deal straight up (obviously with salaries included to make numbers work). I don’t know that I would. You have to consider broader implications to cap of Simmons. Maybe he shapes up, maybe he returns to All NBA. He could also destroy the franchise.

I also don’t think Morey would move Simmons for just Murray. So that probably puts an end to things anyway.

[KingKev]

I'm not going to lie. I came in here to basically point out that while Murray is playing well, Simmons is still better. But looking at the stats, I don't know that that's true. Don't get me wrong -- defensively and impact-wise, Simmons last year is still ahead of Murray this year. There are certainly still ways to say Ben is a tier or so above Murray. But even adjusting for minutes, DJM is outperforming BS in terms of production while also having a more diverse game. The shooting is a real issue for Murray -- but there's hope that he'll find his way toward overall efficiency soon. Simmons' TS% was superior, and that is a product of him being a much better driver and strong finisher. But without learning to shoot threes or improving his FT%, there's not really any upside that he'll get better. I still lean toward the idea that if you could take last years' Simmons and trade that guy for Murray, Ben would look better, and the Spurs would win more games. But it would rely on all of the other players being great three-point shooters -- especially with Jakob also playing. That hasn't really been the case this year, so it's dicey.

And that's just on-the-court stuff. If Simmons is really going through mental stuff, then he might well be damaged goods. If he isn't, then it's hard to trade for him trusting that he wouldn't do this the next time he wanted out of a situation. I don't have to speak on the cultural impact that Murray's basically had since Day 1. It would be a huge hit to the Spurs losing him for a guy who's listless, whether due to medical issues or just attitude.

I don't think it makes sense to trade Murray for Simmons at this time, and given the team's shooting issues and DJM's high usage, I don't think Simmons makes sense for the Spurs with Murray still on the roster. That can change if Ben gets back to playing and shows he can be the All-NBA player he was before.

When comparing the two we should probably normalize all of these stats for the fact Murray makes half of what BS makes. Murray is close to untouchable in my eyes unless its part of a bigger deal for a true rising star like a Tatum, Tre Young, Zion.

[KingKev]

Simmons stock is probably at an all-time low. I truly believe Thad/White/Walker and our 2022 FRP is very fair. I understand ppl’s reservations about Murray and Simmons playing together but I suspect if you surrounded them with scorers they could figure it out.

A starting 5 that included Murray/Vassell/Simmons would be a very exciting defensive trio. Probably couldn’t start Jak but fill that starting 5 out with a pure scorer, preferably a versatile 4 and a rim running 5 and it would work well IMO.

[Dejounte]

When comparing the two we should probably normalize all of these stats for the fact Murray makes half of what BS makes. Murray is close to untouchable in my eyes unless its part of a bigger deal for a true rising star like a Tatum, Tre Young, Zion.

Zion “Michael Sweetney” Williamson?


https://youtu.be/oWBMv5WjDGY

https://fadeawayworld-com.cdn.ampproject.org/ii/F1/s/fadeawayworld.com/.image/c_fit%2Ccs_srgb%2Cfl_progressive%2Cq_auto:good%2Cw _1022/MTc5ODU5OTcxNTI4MjcxODYx/4-michael-sweetney.jpg


https://youtu.be/__JFeoChvu8

[KingKev]

Zion “Michael Sweetney” Williamson?


https://youtu.be/oWBMv5WjDGY

https://fadeawayworld-com.cdn.ampproject.org/ii/F1/s/fadeawayworld.com/.image/c_fit%2Ccs_srgb%2Cfl_progressive%2Cq_auto:good%2Cw _1022/MTc5ODU5OTcxNTI4MjcxODYx/4-michael-sweetney.jpg


https://youtu.be/__JFeoChvu8

I wouldn't count him out yet.

[Cabrito]

What an amazing story Chuck told about Moses making him cry for saying “he was fat and lazy.” And that being the turning point in his career.

[SPURt]

I wouldn’t trade DJM for Ben. You can’t compare their stats straight up without accounting for personnel. DJM is the Spurs number 1 option and defensive game plans must account for him first. Simmons is operating in a system with an MVP candidate. Ben Simmons doesn’t do near as good as DJM if they were traded straight up for one another. Simmons is a hard pass. Mentally damaged and unable to learn how to at least Jason Kidd a three, smh.

[talkspurs]

People see them as similar, but they’re really not. DJ is a better shooter, but Simmons is elite at the rim, and he gets there easily in spite of a janky jumper. They both rebound at a high level, and dish out a high number of assists. When you have two players who are close, you look for tie breakers. Size is the most obvious one, and that gives the edge to Ben. He’s also a more natural distributor. DJ has gotten better at the pick and roll, but still misses too many perimeter shooters. I’d still make the trade, although it’s not quite as cut and dried as it was in training camp. It’s all academic, though. According to sauces, neither White nor DJ were offered. This is just a thought exercise.

Actually I see them as completely different players. Ben is much more of an old school PF. He is not a PG. Philly tried and decided it failed. They also have different games. Murray is more outside and Ben is totally inside (as you even point out). Ben cannot guard small players while DJm does. Ben also has problems with true bigs. I dont think DJM and Ben are even close. Djm is far better then Ben.

[talkspurs]

Not that these guys would ever change their mind to begin with (it’s just tooooooo hard to admit when we’re wrong), but gloating about something you could be right about makes the other party even more steadfast in their opinion and it helps absolutely nothing. You should have expected nothing before you made this post but now more excuses will flood in after your post.

For the reason that happened. Chinock kind of said he would make the trade but then kind of backtracked. Extatic said he would not. neither of them would come out and say they were wrong. So it was showing that they were unwilling to accecpt when they were wrong. DJm is in the top 30 of current players. Ben even if healthy is probably not even top 50. It also goes to show how much people will overate just based off of name and media hype. These two try an act like they are objective but they really just go off what the media hypes. I was also big on Cristina wood before he got big. Some others were onboard but others were not. I also wish we would have gone after Mo Wagner this year. He is doing well in the limited time he is getting. We needed a PF and that is what he is. When trying to find good players you cant go off media hype but off what they will do.

[talkspurs]

I'm not going to lie. I came in here to basically point out that while Murray is playing well, Simmons is still better. But looking at the stats, I don't know that that's true. Don't get me wrong -- defensively and impact-wise, Simmons last year is still ahead of Murray this year. There are certainly still ways to say Ben is a tier or so above Murray. But even adjusting for minutes, DJM is outperforming BS in terms of production while also having a more diverse game. The shooting is a real issue for Murray -- but there's hope that he'll find his way toward overall efficiency soon. Simmons' TS% was superior, and that is a product of him being a much better driver and strong finisher. But without learning to shoot threes or improving his FT%, there's not really any upside that he'll get better. I still lean toward the idea that if you could take last years' Simmons and trade that guy for Murray, Ben would look better, and the Spurs would win more games. But it would rely on all of the other players being great three-point shooters -- especially with Jakob also playing. That hasn't really been the case this year, so it's dicey.

And that's just on-the-court stuff. If Simmons is really going through mental stuff, then he might well be damaged goods. If he isn't, then it's hard to trade for him trusting that he wouldn't do this the next time he wanted out of a situation. I don't have to speak on the cultural impact that Murray's basically had since Day 1. It would be a huge hit to the Spurs losing him for a guy who's listless, whether due to medical issues or just attitude.

I don't think it makes sense to trade Murray for Simmons at this time, and given the team's shooting issues and DJM's high usage, I don't think Simmons makes sense for the Spurs with Murray still on the roster. That can change if Ben gets back to playing and shows he can be the All-NBA player he was before.

I see you are really big into ts%. He actually is not a strong finisher. but he gets lots of ft as he plays inside. If DJM got more his ts% would go up quite a bit. DJM also helps open up the floor by being an outside player. He also is a better defender. Ben lives off his name. As soon as he goes to a worse team his profile will fall.

[exstatic]

For the reason that happened. Chinock kind of said he would make the trade but then kind of backtracked. Extatic said he would not. neither of them would come out and say they were wrong. So it was showing that they were unwilling to accecpt when they were wrong. DJm is in the top 30 of current players. Ben even if healthy is probably not even top 50. It also goes to show how much people will overate just based off of name and media hype. These two try an act like they are objective but they really just go off what the media hypes. I was also big on Cristina wood before he got big. Some others were onboard but others were not. I also wish we would have gone after Mo Wagner this year. He is doing well in the limited time he is getting. We needed a PF and that is what he is. When trying to find good players you cant go off media hype but off what they will do.

I’m not a media guy, but I am ABSOLUTELY an advanced stats guy, and those give Simmons the edge.

Y’all are like that group of Oakland As front office personnel befuddled at the new Asst GM that Billy Bean brought into the room in Moneyball. You’re the Romans, and the Visigoths are making their way over the horizon to sack your city. As Billy said, adapt or die. There is value in flawed players that other teams don’t want. I think there is huge value in Ben Simmons, even if he’s a baby.

[exstatic]

I see you are really big into ts%. He actually is not a strong finisher. but he gets lots of ft as he plays inside. If DJM got more his ts% would go up quite a bit. DJM also helps open up the floor by being an outside player. He also is a better defender. Ben lives off his name. As soon as he goes to a worse team his profile will fall.

When you take about 54% of your shots from 0-3 feet, and finish at 71%, that’s high quantity, elite finishing. The FTs are just icing. TS% is not a mirage. Most of this board recognize what an overrated chucker that Russell Westbrook is, and TS% hates him. It isn’t a mirage, but it is a good indicator of productivity.

[talkspurs]

I’m not a media guy, but I am ABSOLUTELY an advanced stats guy, and those give Simmons the edge.

Y’all are like that group of Oakland As front office personnel befuddled at the new Asst GM that Billy Bean brought into the room in Moneyball. You’re the Romans, and the Visigoths are making their way over the horizon to sack your city. As Billy said, adapt or die. There is value in flawed players that other teams don’t want. I think there is huge value in Ben Simmons, even if he’s a baby.

I dont disagree with you that there is value in flawed players. But you have to be able to fix the flaw or there is no value. Can you post the advanced stats that your looking at for ben djm and forbes for last season and this season. ts% puts forbes higher. I also will use him to show how much playing on a winning team helps. You have to understand how the stats work in order to interpret them.

[objective]

Big reason why back in September I was not on board with a dejounte for Simmons swap is that dejounte is willing to take big shots in crunch time. Simmons isn't, he'll pass out of a dunk.

Simmons might be a better passer, could be a better defender, rebounder, fast break player etc etc. But when it comes to winning time, Simmons doesn't want it. Dejounte does.

Hell he's even taking more threes then ever. 7 attempts each of the last two games, and 7 games of 5 attempts or more. The percentage is not good for now, but he's not afraid of looking like he can't shoot. Simmons would curl into the fetal position before going 3-7 on threes in 2 straight games

[Chinook]

When comparing the two we should probably normalize all of these stats for the fact Murray makes half of what BS makes. Murray is close to untouchable in my eyes unless its part of a bigger deal for a true rising star like a Tatum, Tre Young, Zion.

In a league like the NBA where talent differences are marginal, direct value isn't really applicable. If Player X is 20-percent better than Player Y but makes twice as much, then you can't just assume having two of Player Y would be a lot better. A slight improvement can mean the difference between a deep playoff run and missing the play-in. With the addition of min players, rookie contracts and other cap exceptions, a lot of players are locked into lower value tiers as well. There are guys who are pretty cheap who can give you a lot of what Player Y is going to give, and having those guys and the marginal increase from Player X is usually how teams go for it, and they're more successful than those who try to moneyball the league.

More directly, if Simmons is better than Murray, Murray making less doesn't matter all that much, because teams need max-level performers more than they need to save money. There are certainly avenues in which players can be bargains, but compared to the NFL, there are a lot fewer of them. If we assume Simmons is 20 percent better than Murray just for argument's sake, I'd rather have him than two Murrays.


I see you are really big into ts%. He actually is not a strong finisher. but he gets lots of ft as he plays inside. If DJM got more his ts% would go up quite a bit. DJM also helps open up the floor by being an outside player. He also is a better defender. Ben lives off his name. As soon as he goes to a worse team his profile will fall.

Simmons isn't a great free-throw shooter, and TS% would actually hurt him since he shoots below the expect PPP the formula on sites like BBRef assume. The formula uses an estimate of efficiency to calculate how large free throws' contribution to the denominator should be. The stat is assuming more of his points come from made FTs than is actually true. If it were properly calculated, BS would have an even higher number.

No, I'm not actually that into the stat. No idea why you'd assume that just because I cited it.


For the reason that happened. Chinock kind of said he would make the trade but then kind of backtracked. Extatic said he would not. neither of them would come out and say they were wrong. So it was showing that they were unwilling to accecpt when they were wrong. DJm is in the top 30 of current players. Ben even if healthy is probably not even top 50. It also goes to show how much people will overate just based off of name and media hype. These two try an act like they are objective but they really just go off what the media hypes. I was also big on Cristina wood before he got big. Some others were onboard but others were not. I also wish we would have gone after Mo Wagner this year. He is doing well in the limited time he is getting. We needed a PF and that is what he is. When trying to find good players you cant go off media hype but off what they will do.

So you gloated in order to get responses? I mean okay. I definitely think the start to the season has altered how I think about the comparison between the players. Some of that is Murray being better than he's been. But a lot of that is also Simmons' stock dropping. As I said before, in a vacuum, I'd still take last year's Simmons over Murray this year. I'm not going to box myself into a corner where I'm shitting on Murray, as I'm glad he's playing better. But I also think a lot of Spurs fans haven't really looked at how Murray compares to the rest of the league. He's been good, but he still has a lot of flaws in his game that drag his impact down compared to All-NBA guys like Simmons. There are a lot of teams with multiple players who have cases for being clearly better than DeJounte, including some not very good teams. I think DJM should be over guys like CJ McCollum, but someone like Sabonis (who's not a superstar by any means), is still comfortably better.

Again, not trying to shit on Murray, but if he weren't the culture leader of the team (and didn't go through a horrible summer), I'd have no problem trading him away even now.

[XDT76]

In a league like the NBA where talent differences are marginal, direct value isn't really applicable. If Player X is 20-percent better than Player Y but makes twice as much, then you can't just assume having two of Player Y would be a lot better. A slight improvement can mean the difference between a deep playoff run and missing the play-in. With the addition of min players, rookie contracts and other cap exceptions, a lot of players are locked into lower value tiers as well. There are guys who are pretty cheap who can give you a lot of what Player Y is going to give, and having those guys and the marginal increase from Player X is usually how teams go for it, and they're more successful than those who try to moneyball the league.

More directly, if Simmons is better than Murray, Murray making less doesn't matter all that much, because teams need max-level performers more than they need to save money. There are certainly avenues in which players can be bargains, but compared to the NFL, there are a lot fewer of them. If we assume Simmons is 20 percent better than Murray just for argument's sake, I'd rather have him than two Murrays.



Simmons isn't a great free-throw shooter, and TS% would actually hurt him since he shoots below the expect PPP the formula on sites like BBRef assume. The formula uses an estimate of efficiency to calculate how large free throws' contribution to the denominator should be. The stat is assuming more of his points come from made FTs than is actually true. If it were properly calculated, BS would have an even higher number.

No, I'm not actually that into the stat. No idea why you'd assume that just because I cited it.



So you gloated in order to get responses? I mean okay. I definitely think the start to the season has altered how I think about the comparison between the players. Some of that is Murray being better than he's been. But a lot of that is also Simmons' stock dropping. As I said before, in a vacuum, I'd still take last year's Simmons over Murray this year. I'm not going to box myself into a corner where I'm shitting on Murray, as I'm glad he's playing better. But I also think a lot of Spurs fans haven't really looked at how Murray compares to the rest of the league. He's been good, but he still has a lot of flaws in his game that drag his impact down compared to All-NBA guys like Simmons. There are a lot of teams with multiple players who have cases for being clearly better than DeJounte, including some not very good teams. I think DJM should be over guys like CJ McCollum, but someone like Sabonis (who's not a superstar by any means), is still comfortably better.

Again, not trying to shit on Murray, but if he weren't the culture leader of the team (and didn't go through a horrible summer), I'd have no problem trading him away even now.

I disagree with your 20% talk it is only true if you have unlimited money and resources. Our 2014 Spurs has no players that is 20% better than the Heats and Thunders. James and Wade are probably better than anyone on our team in that year but with a more balance team we won the championship. History has a lot of examples the 2019 Raptors, the 2011 Mavericks the 2006 Heats and the 2004 Pistons. Having 2 Murray can ensure you have 48 minutes of Murray in the whole series, you can never play a BS for 48 minutes for a 7 game series. Players will also have a bad day. Having 2 Murray will have better resilience than 1 BS.

[Chinook]

I disagree with your 20% talk it is only true if you have unlimited money and resources. Our 2014 Spurs has no players that is 20% better than the Heats and Thunders. James and Wade are probably better than anyone on our team in that year but with a more balance team we won the championship. History has a lot of examples the 2019 Raptors, the 2011 Mavericks the 2006 Heats and the 2004 Pistons. Having 2 Murray can ensure you have 48 minutes of Murray in the whole series, you can never play a BS for 48 minutes for a 7 game series. Players will also have a bad day. Having 2 Murray will have better resilience than 1 BS.

The 2014 Spurs were uber-talented. I dare say everyone on the team now would struggled to make that rotation. Don't let the narrative fool you there. Wade was also a shell of himself, and Westbrook was the same chaotic-neutral player seven years ago that he is now. The Spurs had four HoFers who were all playing a high level. I know it's fun to pretend like the team scrapped and took down a goliath, but the Spurs were clearly better than the broken-down Heat in 2014. There's no sum-of-part talk. It was like, James, Duncan, Leonard, Parker, Ginobli, Wade, Green, Diaw, Bosh, Splitter, Mills and then some Heat guys and guys like Beli to finish it up. Having one prime James (or Duncan or even Manu and Tony) was worth way more than two players who are making half of what he did. Hell, he was worth two other max players that weren't him and a small handful of true superstars.

You can't 80/20 NBA superstars. There's a risk that the star will get hurt, but you just take it. You might be somewhat better without in the moneyballl scenario, but you're still not good enough to beat the teams with elite talent. I don't think the Spurs in 2014 beat OKC without Duncan any more than the Heat would without James. In league with seven-game series, have an off night shouldn't be the real reason a team loses. Of course, you don't just have the two value players and the expensive players. You have other guys on the roster too, and even min-contract ring-chasers add value that the "balanced" team doesn't have as much access to. Those guys aren't usually as good as players on solid contracts, but they're often close enough to be better values than the mid-tier contracts anyway.

[XDT76]

The 2014 Spurs were uber-talented. I dare say everyone on the team now would struggled to make that rotation. Don't let the narrative fool you there. Wade was also a shell of himself, and Westbrook was the same chaotic-neutral player seven years ago that he is now. The Spurs had four HoFers who were all playing a high level. I know it's fun to pretend like the team scrapped and took down a goliath, but the Spurs were clearly better than the broken-down Heat in 2014. There's no sum-of-part talk. It was like, James, Duncan, Leonard, Parker, Ginobli, Wade, Green, Diaw, Bosh, Splitter, Mills and then some Heat guys and guys like Beli to finish it up. Having one prime James (or Duncan or even Manu and Tony) was worth way more than two players who are making half of what he did. Hell, he was worth two other max players that weren't him and a small handful of true superstars.

You can't 80/20 NBA superstars. There's a risk that the star will get hurt, but you just take it. You might be somewhat better without in the moneyballl scenario, but you're still not good enough to beat the teams with elite talent. I don't think the Spurs in 2014 beat OKC without Duncan any more than the Heat would without James. In league with seven-game series, have an off night shouldn't be the real reason a team loses. Of course, you don't just have the two value players and the expensive players. You have other guys on the roster too, and even min-contract ring-chasers add value that the "balanced" team doesn't have as much access to. Those guys aren't usually as good as players on solid contracts, but they're often close enough to be better values than the mid-tier contracts anyway.

I did not say our 2014 Spurs took down a Goliath I am using your 20% better example. James is definitely better than all our players Wade despite a shell of himself is still better than most of our players and I did not bring in Bosh yet. I am arguing that having more players with good talents are better than a couple of great talents. When you have too many Max players especially those that are not worth it, it's gonna kill your team.

[mo7888]

Not Simmons relayed but I thought this was the best place to drop this-Shams

Sources: The Indiana Pacers are moving toward rebuild, receptive to trade talks centered on Caris LeVert and either Domantas Sabonis or Myles Turner.

[John B]

Not Simmons relayed but I thought this was the best place to drop this-Shams

Sources: The Indiana Pacers are moving toward rebuild, receptive to trade talks centered on Caris LeVert and either Domantas Sabonis or Myles Turner.

I wouldn’t mind getting Sabonis.

[KingKev]

Not Simmons relayed but I thought this was the best place to drop this-Shams

Sources: The Indiana Pacers are moving toward rebuild, receptive to trade talks centered on Caris LeVert and either Domantas Sabonis or Myles Turner.

If they are rebuilding we probably can’t help as they will want young assets and picks but if they want White or Jak, Walker IV and a couple of SRPs for Turner i’d jump on that. They’ll probs want an FRP, Primo and an expiring though.

[John B]

If they are rebuilding we probably can’t help as they will want young assets and picks but if they want White or Jak, Walker IV and a couple of SRPs for Turner i’d jump on that. They’ll probs want an FRP, Primo and an expiring though.

I’d give Keldon and Thad and the Bulls pick for Sabonis. They’d be crazy not to take that if they are rebuilding. A rookie contract, expiring vet and a 1st round pick.

Maybe pair Sabonis with Poeltl to help him protect the rim more, so people here stop giving him the excuse, “well Keldon is overpowered so Poeltl needs to help.”

I don’t know if they can flip Thad to a 1st pick later on. And I’d give our 2nd round pick if not enough. Sabonis would be a great addition to this team at only 25

[JuneJive]

Pass on Sabonis.

A flawed player, has to play C but doesn't have the defensive abilities to do it on a high level.

[Seventyniner]

Can Turner play PF? I'd love to have him but I don't think either he or Poeltl would react well to being a bench player.

An off-the-wall idea would be to trade Poeltl (plus whatever else it takes, as long as it's not too much ofc) and get back both Turner and Sabonis.

I don't want LaVert though. He'd just take minutes from the younger wings and he's been quite inefficient recently.

[mo7888]

Can Turner play PF? I'd love to have him but I don't think either he or Poeltl would react well to being a bench player.

An off-the-wall idea would be to trade Poeltl (plus whatever else it takes, as long as it's not too much ofc) and get back both Turner and Sabonis.

I don't want LaVert though. He'd just take minutes from the younger wings and he's been quite inefficient recently.

I do think Turner could play beside Poeltl. I'm not advocating a particular trade but, we could put out some interesting lineups and we wouldn't need to play Eubanks anymore this year unless there's an injury... We'd have an elite rim protector on the floor at all times...

[poopbox]

Walker or Tre + Thad + Bulls 1st rounder for Turner would do wonders for this team...

Forget about Sabonis we don't have anyone on our team nearly good enough to trade for him except Dejounte

[buttsR4rebounding]

Walker or Tre + Thad + Bulls 1st rounder for Turner would do wonders for this team...

Forget about Sabonis we don't have anyone on our team nearly good enough to trade for him except Dejounte

If you could do that then trade Poeltl to GS. He would do fantastic in that system. Looney and Wiseman are definitely the weakness on that team. With Poeltl's screening friggin' Curry would be so wide open. Scary.

[tonight...you]

If they are rebuilding we probably can’t help as they will want young assets and picks but if they want White or Jak, Walker IV and a couple of SRPs for Turner i’d jump on that. They’ll probs want an FRP, Primo and an expiring though.
Mmm... you're probably right.
I wouldn't trade Primo right now unless it was for something amazing.
That kid is gonna be somebody.
He's gonna be a contendah.

[KingKev]

Mmm... you're probably right.
I wouldn't trade Primo right now unless it was for something amazing.
That kid is gonna be somebody.
He's gonna be a contendah.

Yeah given we are both rebuilding I don’t see much opportunity here. We are better developing our very young guys like Keldon, Primo and Vassell. I also don’t think any of those young guys would even result in much back.

[tonight...you]

Yeah given we are both rebuilding I don’t see much opportunity here. We are better developing our very young guys like Keldon, Primo and Vassell. I also don’t think any of those young guys would even result in much back.
Yeah. Vassell is showing some stuff that some teams might crave, but for what amount?
Primo might become something that's just untradeable.
I hope that happens.1

[talkspurs]

So you gloated in order to get responses? I mean okay. I definitely think the start to the season has altered how I think about the comparison between the players. Some of that is Murray being better than he's been. But a lot of that is also Simmons' stock dropping. As I said before, in a vacuum, I'd still take last year's Simmons over Murray this year. I'm not going to box myself into a corner where I'm shitting on Murray, as I'm glad he's playing better. But I also think a lot of Spurs fans haven't really looked at how Murray compares to the rest of the league. He's been good, but he still has a lot of flaws in his game that drag his impact down compared to All-NBA guys like Simmons. There are a lot of teams with multiple players who have cases for being clearly better than DeJounte, including some not very good teams. I think DJM should be over guys like CJ McCollum, but someone like Sabonis (who's not a superstar by any means), is still comfortably better.

Again, not trying to shit on Murray, but if he weren't the culture leader of the team (and didn't go through a horrible summer), I'd have no problem trading him away even now.

You obvioulsy missed the part where I said I came in because I knew yall ( you and extatic) would be able to admit that yall were wrong. Of the two you have came closer but I think you realised you were kind of admitting it and started back tracking.

Compareing him to the rest of the league. I would say he is probably in the top 25 current players out there. A lot of people will go off names. You keep putting simmons up there but he is not better then Murray. Simmons has some skills but lacks much more as a player and is causes problems for his team and im not even talking about this year. Im talking about who he can play with. Even with a team built around him the have not make it to the conference finals.

[KingKev]

CJ with a collapsed lung, probs on the shelf for awhile. Might put a wrench in Simmons for CJ chatter.

[John B]

CJ with a collapsed lung, probs on the shelf for awhile. Might put a wrench in Simmons for CJ chatter.

Yikes. Maybe Simmons to Indiana?

[mo7888]

CJ with a collapsed lung, probs on the shelf for awhile. Might put a wrench in Simmons for CJ chatter.

Morey is gonna hold out to see if the new GM is willing to extend a supermax to Dame before the pulls the trigger on CJ.

[exstatic]

CJ with a collapsed lung, probs on the shelf for awhile. Might put a wrench in Simmons for CJ chatter.

Read an article today that part of the interview process for the new Portland GM is their plan: rebuild around Lillard, or without him. I think they may be realizing that he’s never going to get out of the first or second round as the #1 option.

[Seventyniner]

Read an article today that part of the interview process for the new Portland GM is their plan: rebuild around Lillard, or without him. I think they may be realizing that he’s never going to get out of the first or second round as the #1 option.

Makes perfect sense. Lillard is not as good as Curry, but imo the big thing holding Portland back is that McCollum is nowhere near as good as Klay and building a Dubs-like roster without that piece is impossible.

Portland has their superstar and that's the hard part. But it's no guarantee of success. That WCF trip might have been a curse in disguise because it made the front office complacent.

[tbdog]

You obvioulsy missed the part where I said I came in because I knew yall ( you and extatic) would be able to admit that yall were wrong. Of the two you have came closer but I think you realised you were kind of admitting it and started back tracking.

Compareing him to the rest of the league. I would say he is probably in the top 25 current players out there. A lot of people will go off names. You keep putting simmons up there but he is not better then Murray. Simmons has some skills but lacks much more as a player and is causes problems for his team and im not even talking about this year. Im talking about who he can play with. Even with a team built around him the have not make it to the conference finals.

Murray might be a wonderful starting guard with two stars already on it. For example, do you think Murray could be better than Iggy was during the Warriors 3 titles in 4 years?

[KingKev]

Read an article today that part of the interview process for the new Portland GM is their plan: rebuild around Lillard, or without him. I think they may be realizing that he’s never going to get out of the first or second round as the #1 option.

I don’t think the apprehension is Dame as the #1 as much as it is the ability to build a team around him. He is up for an extension of 2yrs 107mm this summer that would pay him through the 2026-27 season when he is 36. Tough to walk into a franchise knowing you have that contract tied around your neck.

Dame is still a #1 option in my mind the rest of the team needs to be rebuilt.

[exstatic]

I don’t think the apprehension is Dame as the #1 as much as it is the ability to build a team around him. He is up for an extension of 2yrs 107mm this summer that would pay him through the 2026-27 season when he is 36. Tough to walk into a franchise knowing you have that contract tied around your neck.

Dame is still a #1 option in my mind the rest of the team needs to be rebuilt.

If he’s the #1 option, you’re building around him, and you’re not going anywhere.

[talkspurs]

Murray might be a wonderful starting guard with two stars already on it. For example, do you think Murray could be better than Iggy was during the Warriors 3 titles in 4 years?

I would say they played completely different roles. I would say he is better then iggy. I think most players need other players to compliment them on winning a title.

[John B]

I would say they played completely different roles. I would say he is better then iggy. I think most players need other players to compliment them on winning a title.

Iggy was a beast in Philly. And until DJM learns to finish with contacts and consistently earn trips to the FT line, I would have reservations putting him in comparison. That would complete his game for now. Likewise with Lonnie. I don’t know why they would just do acrobatic layups instead of dunking the ball hard with contact, and maybe getting foul. If Chips is the shooting coach, is there such thing as “finishing with contact” coach?? :lol Poodle should be there too

[MannyIsGod]

Iggy was a beast in Philly. And until DJM learns to finish with contacts and consistently earn trips to the FT line, I would have reservations putting him in comparison. That would complete his game for now. Likewise with Lonnie. I don’t know why they would just do acrobatic layups instead of dunking the ball hard with contact, and maybe getting foul. If Chips is the shooting coach, is there such thing as “finishing with contact” coach?? :lol Poodle should be there too

Actually Iggy's stats in Philly were pretty much what DJM is putting up now with slightly more scoring but fewer assists and rebounds. Iggy's big advantage was that he's much bigger than DJM.

[jjspur]

Walker or Tre + Thad + Bulls 1st rounder for Turner would do wonders for this team...

Forget about Sabonis we don't have anyone on our team nearly good enough to trade for him except Dejounte
I would love Sabonis or Turner on this team. Walker, Thad and a first is probably just a starting point though. After Simmons, the Indiana GM is now asking how much extra can I get for Turner or Sabonis since they are the most valued players next to Dame available for trade. Hmmmmm, A lot I'm sure.
The Spurs would have to give up an arm and a leg and then some for Simmons, but Turner or Sabonis would also cost an arm and a leg. Even though the spurs could use an infusion of talent with a trade like that, I'm not sure they are willing to play that game just yet plus they aren't that great at trades. I'm still stunned at what they got for DeRozen especially since he could have walked away for nothing in return.

[Degoat]

More chatter from Marc Stein about Simmons and the spurs. Mentioned Simmons would welcome a trade to SA

[slick'81]

More chatter from Marc Stein about Simmons and the spurs. Mentioned Simmons would welcome a trade to SA

yea heard sixers would want murray/vassell&mcbuckets:lmao

[baseline bum]

I'm still stunned at what they got for DeRozen especially since he could have walked away for nothing in return.

There wasn't any free agent money for DeRozan after every team that had money went in another direction. LAL chose Westbrook over him, NYK chose Fournier, etc, so the Spurs had some good leverage to require a return for getting DeRozan paid through sign and trade.

[TDomination]

yea heard sixers would want murray/vassell&mcbuckets:lmao
screw that crap. heck no

[Degoat]

yea heard sixers would want murray/vassell&mcbuckets:lmao

Can we replace Murray with White? Lol

[baseline bum]

More chatter from Marc Stein about Simmons and the spurs. Mentioned Simmons would welcome a trade to SA

With the season Dejounte is having, no fucking thanks lol. And I can't picture Murray and Simmons fitting well together in a starting lineup either, so don't want to trade for Simmons even without losing Murray.

[KobesAchilles]

Murray and Simmons would work very well together. Their games mesh very well.

[Leetonidas]

Murray and Simmons would work very well together. Their games mesh very well.

No they wouldn't. DJ can barely shoot and Simmons cant shoot at all. Add Poeltl in there and the SL spacing is a nightmare

[Degoat]

I think Murray and Simmons would work, the rest of the roster would be puzzling to fit all together but I highly doubt the spurs are still considering Simmons

[JeffDuncan]

... I'm still stunned at what they got for DeRozen especially since he could have walked away for nothing in return.


Stunning is the word.

The Spurs got a part-time backup center for the amazing price of only $14M;

And a worthless player they could cut for only $10M;

And a couple of draft picks in 4 years who might, possibly, turn into players who might, possibly, be worth having in five or six or seven years. Maybe.

It is truly stunning.

[KobesAchilles]

No they wouldn't. DJ can barely shoot and Simmons cant shoot at all. Add Poeltl in there and the SL spacing is a nightmare
DJ has become a very underrated shooter here. I don't have the stats on me but he's shooting like 40% from 3 in a recent streak. Also his midrange is money.

Poeltl would thrive too. Imagine that high low game between him and Simmons. Both are intelligent players and have a great feel for the game and positioning around the basket. It would be similar to the high-low game of Timmy and Splitter. Simmons has been working HARD on his game and I believe he will show a willingness to take the elbow jumper.

[TDomination]

with what i've seen so far this year, this is what i'm willing to give them that i believe can add value to the sixers:

White, Johnson, Young, Tre Jones(and i really like Jones)

thats it

need to keep Vassell, Murray, Poeltl, Primo imo.

[JeffDuncan]

... Mentioned Simmons would welcome a trade to SA

Sure, since SA is well known as being where all the coolest socialites hang out. How could Simmons resist?

This all just gets funnier and funnier.

[JeffDuncan]

…
Poeltl would thrive too. Imagine that high low game between him and Simmons. Both are intelligent players and have a great feel for the game and positioning around the basket. …



And imagine the free throw shooting!

Simmons would be a great acquisition in the right deal, tho. I’d trade Eubanks for him, straight up, provided that the 6ers agreed to pay the difference in salary.

[Dverde]

Sure, since SA is well known as being where all the coolest socialites hang out. How could Simmons resist?

This all just gets funnier and funnier.

If my choices were Detroit, Minneapolis, or San Antonio…SA is easily the best choice. Philly isn’t anything special either btw.

[Dverde]

Any trade must include Bonnie Walker Jr. We need to avoid any risk of a re-signing.

[exstatic]

yea heard sixers would want murray/vassell&mcbuckets:lmao

Wieskamp will make McDermott redundant. Simmons makes DJ redundant. So, the absolute cost is Vassell.

I’m surprised they’re willing to take two guys 25 and over, one of them being 30.

[bluebellmaniac]

Any trade must include Bonnie Walker Jr. We need to avoid any risk of a re-signing.

Then you probably also meant to throw in Forbes.

[exstatic]

I think Murray and Simmons would work, the rest of the roster would be puzzling to fit all together but I highly doubt the spurs are still considering Simmons

Saying it doesn’t make it so. Three guys who don’t shoot at a high level in the SL? And two of them have no jumper at all?

[exstatic]

Any trade must include Bonnie Walker Jr. We need to avoid any risk of a re-signing.

You’ll need all the shooting you can get with Simmons in the lineup.

[jermaine]

Vassell and Primo should be untouchable. Non-negotiable

[Degoat]

Saying it doesn’t make it so. Three guys who don’t shoot at a high level in the SL? And two of them have no jumper at all?

If we’re being completely honest nobody in our SL as is can shoot except McDermott, having two building blocks in Murray and Simmons is a good start, you build from that

[tbdog]

Vassell and Primo should be untouchable. Non-negotiable

I agree. But i would want McDermott to stay too. Murray/White, vassell, simmons, McDermott, Poeltl line up is solid.

[exstatic]

If we’re being completely honest nobody in our SL as is can shoot except McDermott, having two building blocks in Murray and Simmons is a good start, you build from that

Ben needs the ball to be effective, like DeRozan level. DJ would have to take a back seat, and his numbers would drop to probably 14/5/6, devaluing him in any prospective future trades. He would also probably be pissed.

White, before this season, has been a good 3 point shooter, like 37% overall. He is struggling, but if you play him off the ball with Simmons, that would be his get well scenario. Last year, Phillys shooters, as a group, shot 4-5% higher from 3 with Ben on the floor versus off the floor. Unlike DJ, Ben WILL find perimeter shooters, and get them the ball in the right place, at the right time.

This was a lot less than I thought Philly would want. Doesn’t look like they’re asking us to mortgage our future draft picks. That unusual in a trade for a multi time All NBA player.

[talkspurs]

I still would not trade for Simmons. he is not good. he is living off of name. If he could play center he might be good but he is to small to do that against good centers. GS he might be able to do it against. with the spacing even PF would be hard for him to play. He is just overrated. I will be glad when he is traded so people will see how overrated he is.

[exstatic]

I still would not trade for Simmons. he is not good. he is living off of name. If he could play center he might be good but he is to small to do that against good centers. GS he might be able to do it against. with the spacing even PF would be hard for him to play. He is just overrated. I will be glad when he is traded so people will see how overrated he is.

Yeah, like 3 ASGs and two All NBA teams and Two All D teams. Totally overrated…to casuals.

[mo7888]

I'd give Murray or White, KJ, and Thad...I'd also be willing to give Murray + White if we could get back Curry or Maxey...

Vassell and Primo would be off-limits...

Edited to add: if Thad or Eubanks aren't included then they both need to be moved in separate deals. Let Jock be the backup 5 so we can at least run a lineup from time to time with 4 guys who can space the floor and give Ben space to work.

[Seventyniner]

I agree. But i would want McDermott to stay too. Murray/White, vassell, simmons, McDermott, Poeltl line up is solid.

Come on now, McD is ultra expendable in a Simmons trade. I could see the Sixers not wanting him because he still has 2 more years on his contract, compared to Young who is an expiring, but there's no reason to insist on keeping McD.

[tbdog]

Come on now, McD is ultra expendable in a Simmons trade. I could see the Sixers not wanting him because he still has 2 more years on his contract, compared to Young who is an expiring, but there's no reason to insist on keeping McD.

It would be difficult to find a player that shoots that well at that price and fits well with Simmons. Spurs should find a player for young that sixers would like.

[tbdog]

Put it this way. I prefer having McDermott instead of walker.
I would package young and Walker for a piece, then save that with White or Murray and perhaps Johnson.

[itzsoweezee]

Yeah, like 3 ASGs and two All NBA teams and Two All D teams. Totally overrated…to casuals.

You forgot — zero heart

[Seventyniner]

Put it this way. I prefer having McDermott instead of walker.
I would package young and Walker for a piece, then save that with White or Murray and perhaps Johnson.

That's fair. If I misconstrued your post as saying that including McD would be a dealbreaker that's my mistake.

[John B]

I wanted Simmons earlier, but since have warmed up with the core that Spurs have now. If ever, I rather part with Keldon, Thad, Bulls’ 1st and our 2nd. Definitely would not part with Devin. He’s my favorite player, and I think will be a very very special player.

[Maddog]

Simmons just doesn't move the needle for me. He's relatively young extremely talented and productive.
DJ is younger and paid half as much. I do agree Simmons is more impactful player- but maybe it's narrowed.

I say no for various reasons-
First and foremost his game has a huge flaw in it. Could he even play with DJ, Poodle etc. When was the last time a contending teams best player couldn't reliably hit a jump shot (for that matter not even try)?
He's owed ~109 million after this year. As above, his flaws would need a re-eval, probable re-boot of the roster. His salary does not give much flexibility.
Finally, would he even want to come to SA. You give up assets to get him then you are trying to unload him again.

Of course if he would want to be In SA, fix his Jump shot (and mental block issues) you got something. Those are a lot of ifs

[exstatic]

Simmons just doesn't move the needle for me. He's relatively young extremely talented and productive.
DJ is younger and paid half as much. I do agree Simmons is more impactful player- but maybe it's narrowed.

I say no for various reasons-
First and foremost his game has a huge flaw in it. Could he even play with DJ, Poodle etc. When was the last time a contending teams best player couldn't reliably hit a jump shot (for that matter not even try)?
He's owed ~109 million after this year. As above, his flaws would need a re-eval, probable re-boot of the roster. His salary does not give much flexibility.
Finally, would he even want to come to SA. You give up assets to get him then you are trying to unload him again.

Of course if he would want to be In SA, fix his Jump shot (and mental block issues) you got something. Those are a lot of ifs

:lol. Ben Simmons is like 60 days older than DJ.

[Maddog]

:lol. Ben Simmons is like 60 days older than DJ.

Sorry I meant to add that in- point I didn't make very well is there's a sense that he is still a really young player when DJ is actually two months younger. I really see the appeal of trying to get him while his potential price is really low. A lot of the appeal is based on equal parts how he has performed to date and his huge potential. However, he is entering that age where he is what he is.

[XDT76]

Yeah, like 3 ASGs and two All NBA teams and Two All D teams. Totally overrated…to casuals.

U are using popularity awards to justify he is good? FFS Zaza leads ASG voting in a year. Anyway he can has thousands of award but being a diva who refuse to play for the team he owes a contract to is useless to the team. Why do you think he is still stuck at 76ers.

[LeBowen]

U are using popularity awards to justify he is good? FFS Zaza leads ASG voting in a year. Anyway he can has thousands of award but being a diva who refuse to play for the team he owes a contract to is useless to the team. Why do you think he is still stuck at 76ers.


He calls out people as casuals while posting about all-star selections. :lol

Anyone who wants Simmons on his current deal should just find another team to follow.

How many times it has to be said that we'd have to trade more or less the entire roster in order to accomodate a "young socialite" who has less range than Jakob while being paid 40 million a year?

At this point, I wouldn't give up a single asset for him.

16/8/8 with 2 steals in his best season while everyone's focused on Embiid and shooters, pretty much an ideal scenario.
What do you think will happen if he gets traded to a bad team? You guessed it right, his production will drop because he won't have any space to operate. With Sixers opponents always let him do his thing becasue everyone knew Ben Simmons can't win games with his offense. And offense is still a huge problem for us. Among the worst teams in the league from deep.

Meanwhile, we have DJ averaging 19/8.5/8.5 with 2 steals for half the price. And he's becoming a decent 3pt shooter. 35% on more than 4 attempts. While being great from mid-range.

Just close this thread already, even though PATFO's work has been terrible over the past years, they're not trading for young socialite.

[Degoat]

He calls out people as casuals while posting about all-star selections. :lol

Anyone who wants Simmons on his current deal should just find another team to follow.

How many times it has to be said that we'd have to trade more or less the entire roster in order to accomodate a "young socialite" who has less range than Jakob while being paid 40 million a year?

At this point, I wouldn't give up a single asset for him.

16/8/8 with 2 steals in his best season while everyone's focused on Embiid and shooters, pretty much an ideal scenario.
What do you think will happen if he gets traded to a bad team? You guessed it right, his production will drop because he won't have any space to operate. With Sixers opponents always let him do his thing becasue everyone knew Ben Simmons can't win games with his offense. And offense is still a huge problem for us. Among the worst teams in the league from deep.

Meanwhile, we have DJ averaging 19/8.5/8.5 with 2 steals for half the price. And he's becoming a decent 3pt shooter. 35% on more than 4 attempts. While being great from mid-range.

Just close this thread already, even though PATFO's work has been terrible over the past years, they're not trading for young socialite.

I think you’re undervaluing his size and def he brings to a team, I’m not saying the spurs should trade for him especially since the 76ers want a ransom for him but he’s better then a lot of people around here make him out to be

[SpurSpike]

Id rather keep our core and use our large cap space to bring in a good player in the summer. Beal or Ayton would be awesome on this team!

[LeBowen]

I think you’re undervaluing his size and def he brings to a team, I’m not saying the spurs should trade for him especially since the 76ers want a ransom for him but he’s better then a lot of people around here make him out to be If you need to adjust the entire roster to just one player and that player can't carry the team even when you do, then he's not worth trading for. And if we disregard his huge mentality and work ethic issues, Simmons can look great with 4 shooters around him. But even then he wouldn't be good enough to carry a serious playoff team. And he's on a max deal. Too many ifs and buts for someone who's not a star player. Definitely not worth it.

[jjspur]

Id rather keep our core and use our large cap space to bring in a good player in the summer. Beal or Ayton would be awesome on this team!
I've tried to look at this from as many sides as possible but I always come to the same answer. Nope.
Although he has some serious character and talent flaws, he is still a talented athlete which any team could use . That's one point for the trade for Ben Simmons side.
Trading for Simmons would cost a good chunk of our starting line up plus future assets. That's one point for the don't trade for Ben Simmons side.
He likes POP as a coach. That's another point for the trade for Ben Simmons side.
Pop is going to retire soon. That's one point for the don't trade for Ben Simmons side.
Simmons would be making 40 million at the end of his contract. That's a scary number. The spurs front office is very conservative when it comes to salary. Then the player possibly quits on you while earning that kind of money Sorry Philly thanks but no thanks. That's like ten points for the don't trade for Ben Simmons side.
Conclusion: If the spurs want to be part of the eventual Simmons trade, go ahead lets see if we can improve the team, just don't trade for Simmons. Look what's its done to Philly. A pretty talented team that's barely above .500. I guess that's why they want to get rid of him.
To quote Nancy Reagan, just say "NO".

[KobesAchilles]

The fact that Russel Westbrook is going to make the All-Star team over DJ is sickening to me. Dejounte has shown great strides in leadership and play. He runs the offense well, he is no longer afraid to shoot the ball or attack the basket, and he is playing A-level defense. This dude NEEDS to be on the all star team this year. I know it's tight at the guard position but I hope Pop rallies hard for this kid to make it to both the media and the coaches.

Steph, Paul, Dame, Westbrook. If Dame can somehow get more votes than Westbrick (which I doubt) that's the only way I cans see Murray making it.

Fuck be Simmons

[slick'81]

Wieskamp will make McDermott redundant. Simmons makes DJ redundant. So, the absolute cost is Vassell.

I’m surprised they’re willing to take two guys 25 and over, one of them being 30.

primo can make vassell redundant

[bluebellmaniac]

Offer White, Young and Lonnie. If they balk, we walk.

[slick'81]

Offer White, Young and Lonnie. If they balk, we walk.

they'll balk

[acoelho1]

Trading for an unprofessional head case is lunacy. No way do I swap Murray for Simmons and any trade doesn’t make the Spurs better. If the Spurs want to shake things up, we need to target players that can score on all 3 levels and especially from 3. I rather stand pat for now and let our young guys continue to develop.

[exstatic]

U are using popularity awards to justify he is good? FFS Zaza leads ASG voting in a year. Anyway he can has thousands of award but being a diva who refuse to play for the team he owes a contract to is useless to the team. Why do you think he is still stuck at 76ers.

Ben Simmons was a coaches selection reserve all 3 times he was an AS. In addition, the All NBA selections can’t be spun as a popularity contest. Try something else, or just flat admit that you hate him.

[RC_Drunkford]

Give them McDermott, Thad Young, Walker and the Chicago pick. That’s as far as I would be willing to go and I’m not even sure if that’s a good deal

[steak n eggs]

Simmons looks like damaged goods to me. How long would it be before Simmons is demanding a trade from the Spurs? Not really in the mood to watch the team implode again. I’m just now warming up to this group since it was hard to watch the big 3 retire and then Kawhi pull his stunt. I just don’t think he makes enough of an impact. Especially if we have to give up 3 offensive assets.

[TDomination]

I wanted Simmons earlier, but since have warmed up with the core that Spurs have now. If ever, I rather part with Keldon, Thad, Bulls’ 1st and our 2nd. Definitely would not part with Devin. He’s my favorite player, and I think will be a very very special player.

i believe this too

and seeing the rising of DJ, i believe these 2 can definitely help make this Spurs team relevant again.

[jermaine]

I still would not trade for Simmons. he is not good. he is living off of name. If he could play center he might be good but he is to small to do that against good centers. GS he might be able to do it against. with the spacing even PF would be hard for him to play. He is just overrated. I will be glad when he is traded so people will see how overrated he is.

I wouldn't want him either personally. He gives me Kawhi vibes. I hate when I see that stupid ass "He needs to get over himself" shit. Lmmfao But it definitely applies to that fool.

[Degoat]

I don’t know how to post Twitter links on here correctly (sigh) but woj tweeted that there’s been momentum on Ben Simmons trades in the last few days, probably because next week more guys can be involved

[mo7888]

I don’t know how to post Twitter links on here correctly (sigh) but woj tweeted that there’s been momentum on Ben Simmons trades in the last few days, probably because next week more guys can be involved

It sounds like he's going to be moved somewhere before Christmas..

[Robz4000]

OT but did TD21 dieded? Been two months since he posted. Guess we gotta add him to the milk carton with timvp.

[itzsoweezee]

What’s the point of Simmons if you already have DJM? A moderate defensive upgrade, maybe? Definitely a worse offensive player.

I’d rather have djm and his excellent contract and non-diva ways.

And I’d the Spurs keep Murray — a lineup of DJM + Simmons would probably be a disaster

[Degoat]

I’m just interested in seeing what the 76ers get for Ben Simmons if they do decide to trade him before the deadline because I think Ben Simmons is better then what people perceive him as but no way am I trading a top 25 player for him which is what Woj suggested.

[rjv]

i think the sixers would consider talks with the spurs but only if DJ was involved, or perhaps vassell, and i would not be in favor of giving up either.

[RD2191]

Trade DJ, he's a bum, MVSimmons baby! :lobt2:

[paperboy77]

Heard them talking on about this on XM. Ridiculous trade proposal by Kamla.... DJM/White/1st Rounder for Simmons. That would defeat the purpose.

[Degoat]

The mismatch ringer podcast today talked about White + Keldon + picks and filler for Simmons

[CGD]

If you believe Woj's twitter, it sounds like Philly and Portland talks are heating up with the inference of CJ as the centerpiece. The pairing makes a lot of sense for each.

Spurs and other dark horses probably have to wait to see if those breakdown or not. Even then I'm increasingly lukewarm on the idea of Ben personally. Rather get a top 8 pick and reassess next year.

[spurraider21]

OT but did TD21 (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=908) dieded? Been two months since he posted. Guess we gotta add him to the milk carton with timvp (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=8).
one of the whiniest posters in memory tbh

[td4mvp2k]

If you believe Woj's twitter, it sounds like Philly and Portland talks are heating up with the inference of CJ as the centerpiece. The pairing makes a lot of sense for each.

Spurs and other dark horses probably have to wait to see if those breakdown or not. Even then I'm increasingly lukewarm on the idea of Ben personally. Rather get a top 8 pick and reassess next year.
If Lillard isn't in the deal theres no way a DJM package isn't better.

[RD2191]

If Lillard isn't in the deal theres no way a DJM package isn't better.
tbh

[mo7888]

I wonder if the Portland deal is McCollum straight up or would Portland be willing to add draft capital? What would their offer look like?

[Maddog]

The speculative Portland deal makes sense for both teams. No trade with the Spurs makes much sense.
Simmons almost fits Portland, McCollum would make Philly better. Plus Portland is in a 2 -3 year window.

[tonight...you]

If Lillard isn't in the deal theres no way a DJM package isn't better.
No DJM package is in the picture most likely.

[XDT76]

Ben Simmons was a coaches selection reserve all 3 times he was an AS. In addition, the All NBA selections can’t be spun as a popularity contest. Try something else, or just flat admit that you hate him.

Like you say the awards are voted by a group of people by that definition it is a popular vote. Just because they are coaches or sports writer does not make their opinion gospel truth. For example is Rudy Gobert definitively better than Vucevic or Sabonis last season? Is Paul George and Kawhi Leonard definitively better than Jayson Tatum last season given that both of them miss 20% of the season? I do not hate Ben Simmons I have no grudge with him, I just think that his antics is disruptive to the team and would not aid the team.
If you still want to insist that these awards are not popular awards try answering this, will these members of panel give you the exact same list including the order for the top 15 players in the NBA today?

[objective]

The mismatch ringer podcast today talked about White + Keldon + picks and filler for Simmons

That's probably a fair approach without picks involved

I used to be of the thinking that if the Spurs had Simmons they're have to choose to keep White over Dejounte because of shooting but as this season has progressed it just seems more and more to me that Dejounte is a better catch and shoot three point shooter

Dejounte might be the better fit with Simmons now that he's knocking in threes on the regular

White, Thaddeus, and keldon for Simmons, Shake and either Joe or Reed works cap wise. And while it hurts the Spurs capspace in the future, it solves the dilemma of what to pay Keldon and worries on White's feet. Too bad it probably makes the Spurs a little too good to purely tank.

They could have a smallball lineup of Simmons, Vassell, Primo, McDermott and Dejounte and probably have enough shooting around Simmons

But I wouldn't want to see any lottery picks or swaps given up

[Barfunk]

If we can get him for peanuts, hell yeah. I'm surprised the Lakers haven't acquired him for some used rubbers.

[exstatic]

The speculative Portland deal makes sense for both teams. No trade with the Spurs makes much sense.
Simmons almost fits Portland, McCollum would make Philly better. Plus Portland is in a 2 -3 year window.

Portlands window never opened. To take the next step, they need Embiid, not an oversized PG who will fail if he doesn’t take the ball out of Dame’s hands.

[CGD]

I wonder if the Portland deal is McCollum straight up or would Portland be willing to add draft capital? What would their offer look like?

McCollum alone won’t do it. It’s probably McCollum + a young player on a rookie deal + 2 protected FRPs.

[TDomination]

No DJM package is in the picture most likely.
There better not be

[TDomination]

The mismatch ringer podcast today talked about White + Keldon + picks and filler for Simmons

they could even add in Young. He's not playing anyways.

I like White a lot but for me the untouchables are DJM, Vassel, Primo and Poeltl. Outside of them you should be willing to move and White is probably our most valuable piece to bring someone else in.

[mo7888]

they could even add in Young. He's not playing anyways.

I like White a lot but for me the untouchables are DJM, Vassel, Primo and Poeltl. Outside of them you should be willing to move and White is probably our most valuable piece to bring someone else in.

Thad is the filler...

[Maddog]

Portlands window never opened. To take the next step, they need Embiid, not an oversized PG who will fail if he doesn’t take the ball out of Dame’s hands.

Let's just say Portland's self perceived window

[Seventyniner]

Let's just say Portland's self perceived window

This. If Portland thinks they have a window they will act like it, whether it's true or not.

Overly optimistic GMs make the league go 'round.

[Dverde]

This isn’t going to happen with DJM involved. D White isn’t capable of running a team, Patty is gone, they won’t do it

[John B]

This isn’t going to happen with DJM involved. D White isn’t capable of running a team, Patty is gone, they won’t do it

Isn’t Simmons a PG? :lol

[John B]

Down 14? Let’s go!! (I’m in the car checking stats) ��.

Wrong thread :lol

[slick'81]

Down 14? Let’s go!! (I’m in the car checking stats) ��.

Wrong thread :lol


wtf:lol

[ginobilized]

How close is DJM to rendering himself untradeable?
He is flat out ballin'! Stronger alpha vibes than Simmons. I can't see the Spurs letting him go. His development is unreal.
DJ is clearly in the MIP discussion, all-defensive team and the fringes of All-Star team. Pretty amazing.

[buttsR4rebounding]

How close is DJM to rendering himself untradeable?
He is flat out ballin'! Stronger alpha vibes than Simmons. I can't see the Spurs letting him go. His development is unreal.
DJ is clearly in the MIP discussion, all-defensive team and the fringes of All-Star team. Pretty amazing.

I just don't see how the Spurs pull the trigger on a Simmons trade that includes DJM. Unlike in the beginning of the season when one of the prevailing lines of discussion was that DJ couldn't play with Simmons because he couldn't space the floor, Murray is becoming a legit 3-point threat as the next step in his evolution. His game has continually progressed where Simmons' hasn't. Of course, Simmons started at a much higher level and I read where he has really been working on his jumper during this down time (not that I would count on it), so I would love to see a DJM/Simmons pairing. Maybe something like Keldon, White, Young, Chicago's 1st, and Detroit's 2nd can get it done. In the off-season that would probable mean dealing Poeltl if they are at all comfortable with either Landale or Zollins starting at center. The real motivation for this, of course: reinsert Bryn in the starting lineup. LOL.

[Sugus]

How close is DJM to rendering himself untradeable?
He is flat out ballin'! Stronger alpha vibes than Simmons. I can't see the Spurs letting him go. His development is unreal.
DJ is clearly in the MIP discussion, all-defensive team and the fringes of All-Star team. Pretty amazing.

He absolutely already has rendered himself untradeable (much to my chagrin :lol).

His major improvements aside, he's always been a fan favorite, and is the clear-cut leader of the team, both in the locker room and on the court, especially with DWhite underperforming this season. He's practically got the org by the balls, the team goes as he goes. It can be a bit worrisome given his hot-headed temper sometimes, but in a star-driven league, it's only logical.

I don't ever see the Spurs trading DJM for Simmons, not even straight up, not even with picks involved coming from Philly. But on the same vein, I don't see the Spurs trading for Simmons at all, his character is a major red flag and the Spurs FO is probably pretty happy with the team they've amassed. If the Spurs were 3-20 right now, I'd say they might jump the gun and go for the "building block" in Simmons, but with the way they've been playing, there's no chance they risk nuking the team, both by getting the leader out, and by replacing him with a diva persona.

This was always a pipe dream thread, and the Spurs playing this season has only made the pipe narrower, tbh.

[bluebellmaniac]

White, Young, and Lonnie would be the best I'd offer at this point. They wouldn't take it, but that'd be my best offer.

[exstatic]

Klutch did tweets for each player they represent with the ASG hashtags so you’d retweet them to vote. Players had anywhere from single to double digits before lunch…with one exception. Ben Simmons had over 8000 retweet votes this morning.

:lol. People are hilarious, sometimes.

[baseline bum]

Klutch did tweets for each player they represent with the ASG hashtags so you’d retweet them to vote. Players had anywhere from single to double digits before lunch…with one exception. Ben Simmons had over 8000 retweet votes this morning.

:lol. People are hilarious, sometimes.

Shit I'm voting for him.

[exstatic]

He’s got like triple the retweet votes of LeBron on their Klutch tweets. Outraged Philly fans quote tweeting and accidentally voting for him is chef’s kiss. :lol

[XDT76]

It will be interesting if he plays 0 games and got starters vote. Probably the coaches will ensure he will not get in.

[daslicer]

It will be interesting if he plays 0 games and got starters vote. Probably the coaches will ensure he will not get in.

Coaches, Media, and players also get to vote on the starters. No way will he get enough votes from any of these groups to get in.

[dbestpro]

The way Murray has progressed this year, it can be argued that Murray is better than Simmons. Philly should have taken the trade when they had the chance. Conversely, Thaddeus Young's value is shrinking and we needed to have let him go when when his value was much higher.

[talkspurs]

The way Murray has progressed this year, it can be argued that Murray is better than Simmons. Philly should have taken the trade when they had the chance. Conversely, Thaddeus Young's value is shrinking and we needed to have let him go when when his value was much higher.

I dont know if there was ever a murray for simmons trade or parts added on a side. It was talked about here but I dont know if it was ever talked about by the teams. I was never on the simmons for Murray trade.

[8sy21vd]

I think if anything, the Spurs would be involved to facilitate a Simmons trade to another team for draft capital or front court depth. Guys like Thad, Walker and Forbes are decent/solid role players with expiring deals who could be included. Perhaps McNuggets although I believe he signed a multi-year deal. Less likely are guys like White and Poetl who should only be moved to significantly upgrade the roster.

[exstatic]

I think if anything, the Spurs would be involved to facilitate a Simmons trade to another team for draft capital or front court depth. Guys like Thad, Walker and Forbes are decent/solid role players with expiring deals who could be included. Perhaps McNuggets although I believe he signed a multi-year deal. Less likely are guys like White and Poetl who should only be moved to significantly upgrade the roster.

Forbes has veto rights on any trade, since he’s on a ne year deal. Can’t see him vetoing anything to a contender, but he can be as choosy as he wants.

[TD 21]

Despite his undeniable offensive improvement, Murray is still inefficient on ball and sub par off ball, so while I remain skeptical of his place on a good team, between his closing the gap on Simmons and the possible mental state of the latter, it longer makes sense to pursue this considering how many additional assets would be required, as well as the need to find a third team to facilitate it.

[buttsR4rebounding]

There are FIVE teams left in the race to land Simmons. We break down each possible deal

Ben Cotton
Ben Cotton from Fox Sports
ben_cotton15
December 29th, 2021 3:11 pm
The NBA’s February 10 trade deadline isn’t far off as Ben Simmons’ standoff with the Philadelphia 76ers continues.

And while a surge of Covid-19 cases is currently dominating the NBA landscape and making it hard for teams to engage in trade talks, the Sixers are expected to again ramp up conversations with rivals soon for the Aussie star.

ESPN’s Adrian Wojnarowski reported that the Sixers “don’t have any real traction on a trade yet” but are set to re-engage with suitors including the Indiana Pacers, Sacramento Kings and Minnesota Timberwolves before naming the Cleveland Cavaliers as the “team to watch”. The Athletic’s Shams Charania also revealed the Cavs have a “level of interest” in Simmons

Meanwhile, Bally Sports’ NBA Insider Brandon ‘Scoop’ Robinson confirmed the San Antonio Spurs remain keen on Simmons.

It comes after earlier reports that the Sixers are targeting a superstar level talent in return such as James Harden, Damian Lillard, Shai Gilgeous-Alexander and Jaylen Brown — but the reality is Philadelphia may need to start looking a rung down.

In saying that, Simmons is contracted until 2025, meaning suitors aren’t just getting a rental player, thus increasing his value. But how much have the events of recent months affected that?

The 25-year-old Simmons remains away from the Sixers citing mental health issues, while Wojnarowski confirmed Simmons has no plans to return to the team this season, meaning a trade over the next month is the only way to resolve his immediate future.

And so foxsports.com.au has analysed each of the potential five landing spots and their prospects of getting a deal done.

Whether or not they make a move for Simmons, the Pacers are considered one of the teams most likely to shake things up ahead of the trade deadline as they dwindle at the lower end of the Eastern Conference standings. It comes after The Athletic first reported the franchise was open to parting with Caris LeVert and either Domantas Sabonis or Myles Turner in favour of moving towards a substantial rebuild (or tanking) — but this is where a Simmons trade doesn’t necessarily make a heap of sense. While Simmons is only 25 years old, a ‘substantial rebuild’ would indicate accruing long-term assets like draft picks and young upside pieces that won’t help them in the interim (and even makes them worse), so someone like Tyrese Maxey would be a more logical target. Plus any draft picks Indiana took off Philadelphia’s hands would likely be on the lower end of the board. On the Sixers side, the Pacers would be an attractive trade partner as Philadelphia seeks a top-line star that can help them push for the title — with both Sabonis and Turner fitting the bill or not being far off — although it’s unclear how either would mesh with Joel Embiid. The Sixers would ideally get another playmaker in for Simmons, but in terms of who’s actually on the market, Indiana could well have the best assets.

The Kings are another team that, regardless of their legitimate Simmons aspirations, are expected to make moves ahead of the deadline amid another rocky season. Sacramento has maybe the best spread of assets in the league to target a higher-end star and should be bold in trying to climb into the playoff picture after falling short for so many years. This is a team that, as harsh as it sounds, no one has taken seriously for the best part of 20 years, has had one player represent it in the All-Star game since 2004 (DeMarcus Cousins) and just fired its sixth coach in nine seasons. Simmons would make a lot of sense as that franchise star who could potentially help turn their fortunes and make all those years of pain and racking up assets worthwhile. Reports have stated Harrison Barnes, Buddy Hield and Marvin Bagley are all on the market, but Sacramento would almost definitely need to include at least one of De‘Aaron Fox and Tyrese Haliburton in any trade for Simmons. Haliburton would surely interest the Sixers as one of the brightest, most well-rounded young guards in the league despite not yet being in the ‘star’ echelon, so too Barnes and Hield as strong pieces who could help them contend. The other bonus of shipping Simmons to Sacramento is sends him out of the Eastern Conference and thus doesn’t make any immediate rivals stronger.

The Timberwolves have long been linked to Simmons as the team looks to climb up the always-competitive Western Conference standings, but how it gets a deal done is less clear. Any trade would have to centre around D’Angelo Russell, and while the 25-year old is a quality player, he’s a couple of rungs down the neighbourhood the Sixers are reportedly shopping. Malik Beasley and Patrick Beverley could also appeal to Philadelphia but are on a combined $28 million salary to complicate bundling them into a package with Russell, who’s on $30 million. Going off the other players the Sixers have been targeting, you can bet that they’d be asking the question of Anthony Edwards, but the Timberwolves surely wouldn’t be open to dealing the former Pick 1. It means draft picks would likely need to be a big factor in a trade with the Timberwolves, but the Sixers’ preference is finding a star to pair with Joel Embiid during his prime. Therefore a deal with Minnesota seems less likely unless a third of fourth team gets involved.

The “team to watch” according to ESPN’s Adrian Wojnarowski and one that may now be more serious about plotting a move following its rise to the upper echelon of the East. It’s the dilemma several rising teams face when they have a collection of young budding stars — do they stick with the current crop and see how far it takes them, or at some stage trade for a bona fide All-Star? Don’t get too excited Cavs fans, as any deal would need to centre around more than just Colin Sexton, thus complicating a potential Simmons-to-Cleveland move. Darius Garland and Evan Mobley would both have appeal but are likely untouchables. Jarrett Allen could loom as the key piece, but how he’d fit alongside Joel Embiid is a huge question mark, plus Fanspo.com. reported Allen can’t be traded until after this season because of his new deal’s Bird Rights. Plus Cleveland would probably be hesitant to trade him anyway after emerging as an All-Star level talent. So that leaves the likes of Kevin Love, Lauri Markkanen, Isaac Okoro and Ricky Rubio as potential trade chips but ones who the Sixers surely wouldn’t look twice at as centre pieces of a deal. Like Minnesota, the Cavs would likely need to get more teams involved in a swap to make it happen.

SAN ANTONIO SPURS

According to NBA insider Marc Stein, Simmons would be keen to play for Gregg Popovich if the Spurs could find a way to land him. But could San Antonio realistically make it happen without parting with Dejounte Murray? Murray has emerged as an All-Star calibre player this season and one who’s proven he can be the new face of the Spurs as the franchise transitions into a new era. And Simmons would certainly help fast-track Popovich and co.’s pathway back to the playoffs. However, beyond Murray, Derrick White, Jakob Poeltl, Keldon Johnson and Devin Vassell are all attractive pieces, but none stand out as a bold win-now additions that could really help Philadelphia. The other issue if the Spurs could somehow find a way to acquire Simmons without giving up Murray is how the pair would fit together given they’re best maximised handling the ball and neither shoot it well (despite Murray’s improved form). This isn’t to write off the Spurs as a landing spot, but a direct swap doesn’t make much sense on the Sixers side unless it included Murray.





https://www.foxsports.com.au/basketball/nba/nba-2021-ben-simmons-trade-news-rumours-whispers-updates-landing-spots-teams-interested-philadelphia-76ers-cleveland-cavaliers-indiana-pacers-sacramento-kings/news-story/b959d3c40a08ceb776d5ab3a81377cc8

[John B]

There are FIVE teams left in the race to land Simmons. We break down each possible deal

Ben Cotton
Ben Cotton from Fox Sports
ben (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=12138)_cotton15
December 29th, 2021 3:11 pm
The NBA’s February 10 trade deadline isn’t far off as Ben Simmons’ standoff with the Philadelphia 76ers continues.

And while a surge of Covid-19 cases is currently dominating the NBA landscape and making it hard for teams to engage in trade talks, the Sixers are expected to again ramp up conversations with rivals soon for the Aussie star.

ESPN’s Adrian Wojnarowski reported that the Sixers “don’t have any real traction on a trade yet” but are set to re-engage with suitors including the Indiana Pacers, Sacramento Kings and Minnesota Timberwolves before naming the Cleveland Cavaliers as the “team to watch”. The Athletic’s Shams Charania also revealed the Cavs have a “level of interest” in Simmons

Meanwhile, Bally Sports’ NBA Insider Brandon ‘Scoop’ Robinson confirmed the San Antonio Spurs remain keen on Simmons.

It comes after earlier reports that the Sixers are targeting a superstar level talent in return such as James Harden, Damian Lillard, Shai Gilgeous-Alexander and Jaylen Brown — but the reality is Philadelphia may need to start looking a rung down.

In saying that, Simmons is contracted until 2025, meaning suitors aren’t just getting a rental player, thus increasing his value. But how much have the events of recent months affected that?

The 25-year-old Simmons remains away from the Sixers citing mental health issues, while Wojnarowski confirmed Simmons has no plans to return to the team this season, meaning a trade over the next month is the only way to resolve his immediate future.

And so foxsports.com.au has analysed each of the potential five landing spots and their prospects of getting a deal done.

Whether or not they make a move for Simmons, the Pacers are considered one of the teams most likely to shake things up ahead of the trade deadline as they dwindle at the lower end of the Eastern Conference standings. It comes after The Athletic first reported the franchise was open to parting with Caris LeVert and either Domantas Sabonis or Myles Turner in favour of moving towards a substantial rebuild (or tanking) — but this is where a Simmons trade doesn’t necessarily make a heap of sense. While Simmons is only 25 years old, a ‘substantial rebuild’ would indicate accruing long-term assets like draft picks and young upside pieces that won’t help them in the interim (and even makes them worse), so someone like Tyrese Maxey would be a more logical target. Plus any draft picks Indiana took off Philadelphia’s hands would likely be on the lower end of the board. On the Sixers side, the Pacers would be an attractive trade partner as Philadelphia seeks a top-line star that can help them push for the title — with both Sabonis and Turner fitting the bill or not being far off — although it’s unclear how either would mesh with Joel Embiid. The Sixers would ideally get another playmaker in for Simmons, but in terms of who’s actually on the market, Indiana could well have the best assets.

The Kings are another team that, regardless of their legitimate Simmons aspirations, are expected to make moves ahead of the deadline amid another rocky season. Sacramento has maybe the best spread of assets in the league to target a higher-end star and should be bold in trying to climb into the playoff picture after falling short for so many years. This is a team that, as harsh as it sounds, no one has taken seriously for the best part of 20 years, has had one player represent it in the All-Star game since 2004 (DeMarcus Cousins) and just fired its sixth coach in nine seasons. Simmons would make a lot of sense as that franchise star who could potentially help turn their fortunes and make all those years of pain and racking up assets worthwhile. Reports have stated Harrison Barnes, Buddy Hield and Marvin Bagley are all on the market, but Sacramento would almost definitely need to include at least one of De‘Aaron Fox and Tyrese Haliburton in any trade for Simmons. Haliburton would surely interest the Sixers as one of the brightest, most well-rounded young guards in the league despite not yet being in the ‘star’ echelon, so too Barnes and Hield as strong pieces who could help them contend. The other bonus of shipping Simmons to Sacramento is sends him out of the Eastern Conference and thus doesn’t make any immediate rivals stronger.

The Timberwolves have long been linked to Simmons as the team looks to climb up the always-competitive Western Conference standings, but how it gets a deal done is less clear. Any trade would have to centre around D’Angelo Russell, and while the 25-year old is a quality player, he’s a couple of rungs down the neighbourhood the Sixers are reportedly shopping. Malik Beasley and Patrick Beverley could also appeal to Philadelphia but are on a combined $28 million salary to complicate bundling them into a package with Russell, who’s on $30 million. Going off the other players the Sixers have been targeting, you can bet that they’d be asking the question of Anthony Edwards, but the Timberwolves surely wouldn’t be open to dealing the former Pick 1. It means draft picks would likely need to be a big factor in a trade with the Timberwolves, but the Sixers’ preference is finding a star to pair with Joel Embiid during his prime. Therefore a deal with Minnesota seems less likely unless a third of fourth team gets involved.

The “team to watch” according to ESPN’s Adrian Wojnarowski and one that may now be more serious about plotting a move following its rise to the upper echelon of the East. It’s the dilemma several rising teams face when they have a collection of young budding stars — do they stick with the current crop and see how far it takes them, or at some stage trade for a bona fide All-Star? Don’t get too excited Cavs fans, as any deal would need to centre around more than just Colin Sexton, thus complicating a potential Simmons-to-Cleveland move. Darius Garland and Evan Mobley would both have appeal but are likely untouchables. Jarrett Allen could loom as the key piece, but how he’d fit alongside Joel Embiid is a huge question mark, plus Fanspo.com. reported Allen can’t be traded until after this season because of his new deal’s Bird Rights. Plus Cleveland would probably be hesitant to trade him anyway after emerging as an All-Star level talent. So that leaves the likes of Kevin Love, Lauri Markkanen, Isaac Okoro and Ricky Rubio as potential trade chips but ones who the Sixers surely wouldn’t look twice at as centre pieces of a deal. Like Minnesota, the Cavs would likely need to get more teams involved in a swap to make it happen.

SAN ANTONIO SPURS

According to NBA insider Marc Stein, Simmons would be keen to play for Gregg Popovich if the Spurs could find a way to land him. But could San Antonio realistically make it happen without parting with Dejounte Murray? Murray has emerged as an All-Star calibre player this season and one who’s proven he can be the new face of the Spurs as the franchise transitions into a new era. And Simmons would certainly help fast-track Popovich and co.’s pathway back to the playoffs. However, beyond Murray, Derrick White, Jakob Poeltl, Keldon Johnson and Devin Vassell are all attractive pieces, but none stand out as a bold win-now additions that could really help Philadelphia. The other issue if the Spurs could somehow find a way to acquire Simmons without giving up Murray is how the pair would fit together given they’re best maximised handling the ball and neither shoot it well (despite Murray’s improved form). This isn’t to write off the Spurs as a landing spot, but a direct swap doesn’t make much sense on the Sixers side unless it included Murray.





https://www.foxsports.com.au/basketball/nba/nba-2021-ben-simmons-trade-news-rumours-whispers-updates-landing-spots-teams-interested-philadelphia-76ers-cleveland-cavaliers-indiana-pacers-sacramento-kings/news-story/b959d3c40a08ceb776d5ab3a81377cc8

Nothing new here. Trade Poeltl, White, Thad and Bulls picks for Simmons. If I were Morey, I’d grab that. Poeltl would be upgrade over Drummond and cheap. White gives them a facilitator, Thad experience. I think Simmons can co-exist with DJM’s new-found 3pt range. Fellow Aussie Jock would play perfect opening the lanes. I think the Spurs jump to 4-5th seed over Lakers with that trade.

[bluebellmaniac]

Nothing new here. Trade Poeltl, White, Thad and Bulls picks for Simmons. If I were Morey, I’d grab that. Poeltl would be upgrade over Drummond and cheap. White gives them a facilitator, Thad experience. I think Simmons can co-exist with DJM’s new-found 3pt range. Fellow Aussie Jock would play perfect opening the lanes. I think the Spurs jump to 4-5th seed over Lakers with that trade.

If you do that trade, you find a reason to sit him out most of the season, tank, and go full throttle next season with your Lotto pick.

[KingKev]

No one is racing for Simmons at the current asking price and it’s not a 5 horse race. NOT a single team is interested at the current BS (Bull Shit) ask for BS (Ben Simmons).

This isn’t stubborn Pop refusing to deal with 90% of the league and willingly taking money and players off the table in the Kawhi trade for his own ego. This is Morey holding a losing hand with a shit poker face. Once GMs get a better understanding of where the actual market for BS is it’ll be liquid and half the league will once again be interested.

[KingKev]

Sounding like Philly still wants BS to return. Astronomical, original asking price really
hurt them. Very interested to see what the trade price is that clears the market. Philly wanting him back and acknowledging it publicly will probably make BS more stubborn. It’s dating 101. Two FRPs and a decent win now player clears the market in my opinion but if I’m the Spurs i’d offer less; White, 2023 Spurs FRP, McLovin/Thad and the 2022 Detroit SRP. Holler!

[buttsR4rebounding]

Sounding like Philly still wants BS to return. Astronomical, original asking price really
hurt them. Very interested to see what the trade price is that clears the market. Philly wanting him back and acknowledging it publicly will probably make BS more stubborn. It’s dating 101. Two FRPs and a decent win now player clears the market in my opinion but if I’m the Spurs i’d offer less; White, 2023 Spurs FRP, McLovin/Thad and the 2022 Detroit SRP. Holler!

I’ve suggested similar in another thread but included KJ. Long term he is an energy guy off the bench for a contender. I exchanged the Bulls pick instead of the Spurs 2023 pick, but I don’t think that is a big difference. I think you have to move Poeltl as the fit with Simmons would seem undesirable, but I think you wait for the summer and let the dysfunction reign the rest of the year to maximize this year’s pick.