Spurs Trade Rumor Thread (Spurs eyeing Collins, Osman? Fielding calls on Jak?)

[Leetonidas]

New thread to contain all the rumors leading up the deadline to discuss so we're not constantly bumping old player threads :lol

we all know the spurs will probably do jack at the deadline but we need a 1000 page thread to discuss all the possible scenarios, whether or not some bitter posters want to hear it or not :reading

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2952819-nba-head-rumor-intel-latest-on-collins-turner-mccollum-grant-more?share=other

Here's the Spurs related stuff:

* Jerami Grant has been frequently mentioned as a primary trade target for the Hawks, and Atlanta placed a call to San Antonio about Derrick White. The Spurs and Mavericks have been considered Collins suitors.

* Several teams, including San Antonio, Charlotte, Dallas and Milwaukee, have phoned about Cedi Osman.

* The Raptors have called San Antonio regarding Jakob Poeltl, but the Spurs have fielded numerous calls on him and are seeking a strong return.

[CGD]

So it starts!

[Leetonidas]

Really hesitant to have Collins as our highest paid player but he has gotten better defensively and has nice range on his shot. But if you can get him for White/Young/2023 1st rounder (protected), i'd do that all day tbh

[rjv]

https://c.tenor.com/w8kAoMlhgjQAAAAM/so-it-begins-raining.gif

[CGD]

Cedí, filler + sending us back our original SRP, seems like good return for Thad

[CGD]

Turn:

- Jak into Weisman
- Thad into Cedi & SRP
- White/Lonnie/DET pick into Collins

Profit

[John B]

I like to see what Collins can do, if he hasn’t lost his lateral speed. He’s only 23 and a former lottery pick, and potentially developed into a solid PF if he pans out. I would rather they get a C like Turner who is a better on-man defender.

[spurraider21]

really wanted collins in the offseason. time to correct our mistake of signing the wrong one

[JADG79]

Collins is a good player but he is not an Alfa or a Robin. He is receiving money like a Robin but he is a #3 option in any contender team, he is not a game changer.

The bad news is SA need to overpaid players to play here.

Any trade for DW or Jak need to be for a game changer type of player.

[Leetonidas]

Collins is a good player but he is not an Alfa or a Robin. He is receiving money like a Robin but he is a #3 option in any contender team, he is not a game changer.

The bad news is SA need to overpaid players to play here.

Any trade for DW or Jak need to be for a game changer type of player.

Idk, Atl made it to the conference finals with him as their #2 and he played well in his first playoffs. He is underutilized on the Hawks imo. Dudes only taking like 11 shots a game

[MannyIsGod]

I would gladly do a trade for John Collins. Its even better if it doesn't involve Jak. Obviously no Dejounte Murray in this trade, but I think its pretty insane the Hawks are looking to offload him.

[exstatic]

Cedí, filler + sending us back our original SRP, seems like good return for Thad

Why would they want Thad? They’ve got bigs for days…

[exstatic]

I like to see what Collins can do, if he hasn’t lost his lateral speed. He’s only 23 and a former lottery pick, and potentially developed into a solid PF if he pans out. I would rather they get a C like Turner who is a better on-man defender.

He wasn’t a lottery pick. Lottery is 14 picks, and he went at #19.

I was high on him last year and summer, but have cooled after seeing his numbers drop for the second consecutive year.

[John B]

He wasn’t a lottery pick. Lottery is 14 picks, and he went at #19.

I was high on him last year and summer, but have cooled after seeing his numbers drop for the second consecutive year.

I’m talking about our own Zach Collins. I rather they get a Center like a Turner.

[CGD]

Why would they want Thad? They’ve got bigs for days…

Fair point -- forgot they had washed up Love too. Was the only other "win now" team i could find that might be interested. Maybe a better Lonnie destination...

[timtonymanu]

“We like what we have.”

[timtonymanu]

Wasn’t collins the target that everyone wanted over the summer and now his own team is putting him on the trading block

[CGD]

I'm encouraged by the "multiple teams" are inquiring about Jakob part. Let's get that price war going.

[KingKev]

Fair point -- forgot they had washed up Love too. Was the only other "win now" team i could find that might be interested. Maybe a better Lonnie destination...

He is averaging 14 and 7 shooting > 40% on 6 3’s a game in 20 mins. Hardly washed.

[KingKev]

Sounds like ATL want’s a first. I’m not giving them any our our FRPs for the next 3yrs. Those are going to be too valuable.

[CGD]

Sounds like ATL want’s a first. I’m not giving them any our our FRPs for the next 3yrs. Those are going to be too valuable.

They could always do what Toronto did to us and protect it top 18 or whatever. If the team is picking then, its becasue things are trending the right way...

[Leetonidas]

Wasn’t collins the target that everyone wanted over the summer and now his own team is putting him on the trading block

Supposedly there's friction with him and Trae, who knows though

[exstatic]

Wasn’t collins the target that everyone wanted over the summer and now his own team is putting him on the trading block
His numbers across the board are dropping for the second year in a row.

[exstatic]

He is averaging 14 and 7 shooting > 40% on 6 3’s a game in 20 mins. Hardly washed.

He couldn’t guard a mannakin at this point. Think 6’10” Forbes.

[KingKev]

The line about Jak makes you wonder…. I’m all for moving him as I don’t see him fitting our timeline; not age but medium term strategic plan. Jak is a win now player who will probably garner 15/yr in FA in 2023. We are nowhere close to a win now team so makes sense to move him for an appropriate return. I have a feeling teams like the Raps were offering absolute garbage though.

[KingKev]

He couldn’t guard a mannakin at this point. Think 6’10” Forbes.

He never could.

[Seventyniner]

His numbers across the board are dropping for the second year in a row.

I don't see this as a red flag. On a per 100 possessions basis, he is shooting 2.4 fewer shots than last year and his turnovers have dropped, so his USG% is a good bit lower which hurts counting stats. His WS/48 is 0.165 compared to 0.174 each of the last two seasons, those are very solid numbers. His drop in TRB% is definitely bad, though, and his TS% has gone from around 0.65 to 0.63.

I wouldn't give up the house for him, and he might be somewhat overpaid given his production, but I'd still take him for the right price. It's better than using cap space on guys like McD and his age/position fit the team's timeline quite well.

[wildbill2u]

We have two untradeable players IMO: Jacob and DJ.

These days, You don't find centers like Jacob who have some defensive skills and enough offensive skills with PNR (hands) to be good both ways. He's actually a stat machine among the league's centers without getting much credit for his accomplishments. Remember, he is often playing with 4 undersized players to help against rival bigs and under the boards. We have no one on the team who could adequately replace him so he is not for sale.

DJ is turning into a better combo guard than I ever thought he would. He has really worked at his game and made lots of progress on his handle and his shooting skills. Not a superstar, but probably playing at All-Star level this year. Again, I don't see us able to replace his skills (and age) with anyone with equal or better skills in a trade. Smoke some substances and you might come up with a pipe dream trade that has no chance of being consummated. If there are better veterans available, you have to question why their teams would be willing to let them go. Either money or head case problems come to mind and we don't need that.

I don't think any of the rest of the players are good enough to be the single crucial part of a team looking to upgrade and win it all this year. So none of those teams are going to be willing to part with a better player on a one for one basis unless there is a reason to unload him-- and taking three of our players to make up the difference in that mythical better All Star is a stretch. None of the above factors in the "small market curse" as it affects the attitude of players as to whether they WANT to come here. Not many folks will admit it, but a good part of that attitude may be that SA doesn't have a big and vibrant Black population. You don't hear that mentioned specifically from Black players when the idea of playing here comes up, but I bet it is a significant, if silent, factor in the minds of some players.

[Leetonidas]

Nobody on a 18-31 team with no all star players should be "undtradeable." The entire roster should be tradeable for the right price. Jak is probably one our best assets besides our picks. He is solid but he is not untouchable by any means. Replacing production on a lottery team is pointless. Spurs should consider every possible avenue to get better whether it means trading ST favorites or not , imo.

[BacktoBasics]

I’m all for Collins but not at the expense of our lottery pick. He moves the needle but not enough for us to give up a potential top 5 pick and White. Collins is great but he’s not even the best player on his team and that team is struggling.

White, Lonnie, multiple 2nd rounds and a first 3-4 years out I’m okay with.

We have no business giving up a potential top 5 pick.

[Robz4000]

Nobody on a 18-31 team with no all star players should be "undtradeable." The entire roster should be tradeable for the right price. Jak is probably one our best assets besides our picks. He is solid but he is not untouchable by any means. Replacing production on a lottery team is pointless. Spurs should consider every possible avenue to get better whether it means trading ST favorites or not , imo.

This. No one is untouchable. Doesn't mean you give them away, but if the right deal comes along you pull the trigger.

[talkspurs]

They could always do what Toronto did to us and protect it top 18 or whatever. If the team is picking then, its becasue things are trending the right way...

The big problem with doing that is unless you have them convert to 2nds quickly you end up tying up all your first rd picks because it goes year to year until it conveys. this would limit the first you could trade in the future.

[Mr. Body]

Is this where everyone falls in love with John Collins beyond all reason? What a fickle bunch of schoolgirls y'all are. If it's not Ben Simmons, it's John Collins. It's adorable.

[RC_Drunkford]

I‘d take Collins for White and fillers any day

[objective]

I'm skeptical of the Spurs interest in Collins after they passed on signing him to an offer sheet this summer. He's cheaper now than what they would have had him at by several million a year, but they could have had him and kept White and whatever else it would cost.

Plus the fact that this draft is pretty heavy in PF candidates at the top, and they'll probably still be a bottom 10 team, hard to see it.

I am surprised at the lack of talk about MCDERMOTT.

He's a much better trade candidate: plug and play, no ego, starter or reserve, probably won't decline on his deal, and salary that's pretty easy to match for most teams.

There's teams he could help.

Minnesota for Prince and a protected first.

Philadelphia for a Danny Green, filler and 2022 first. Green is hurt a lot and this just shifts that salary slot forward for a guy who can cut and shoot.

Lakers for THT, filler and multiple seconds.

Etc etc

[baseline bum]

He never could.

Except for those two times with Curry in Game 7 lol. Can't imagine the swing of emotion from Warrriors fans: oh shit Steph's got an iso on Love to wtf why did he pass it away to Draymond to oh shit he's got it back with another iso on Love to fucking hell how did he blow that shot?

[Robz4000]

I'm skeptical of the Spurs interest in Collins after they passed on signing him to an offer sheet this summer. He's cheaper now than what they would have had him at by several million a year, but they could have had him and kept White and whatever else it would cost.

Plus the fact that this draft is pretty heavy in PF candidates at the top, and they'll probably still be a bottom 10 team, hard to see it.

I am surprised at the lack of talk about MCDERMOTT.

He's a much better trade candidate: plug and play, no ego, starter or reserve, probably won't decline on his deal, and salary that's pretty easy to match for most teams.

There's teams he could help.

Minnesota for Prince and a protected first.

Philadelphia for a Danny Green, filler and 2022 first. Green is hurt a lot and this just shifts that salary slot forward for a guy who can cut and shoot.

Lakers for THT, filler and multiple seconds.

Etc etc

:lol a lot of figureheads are proposing that Lakers package for Murray

[slick'81]

20 pages here:lol we come

[PhantomDashCam]

This figures to be a fun deadline. The Spurs should have legitimate leverage under most scenarios, (considering there is no expectations for team success this year), yet we have pieces that would undeniably help teams if given the chance.

Agree with the sentiments that nobody is untouchable though I would think DJ is as close to safe as any prior Spurs leaders, considering age, state of play, community standing etc.

[Chinook]

There's no logic in Cedi. The Spurs already have Hernangomez and should be looking to draft their starting forward of the future.

Hopefully the Spurs find a good package for Poeltl. The value of non-star centers is capped pretty hard. If I were the Spurs, I'd absolutely not commit to having my starting five be a well-paid role-player. If they keep their heads up, they can find a quality center much closer to the time when they need one. Unless they think they'll be a solid playoff competitor next year (and for fucks sake, no they aren't just some internal growth from that right now; they'd be in the lottery again next year), they aren't going to be in a position to get value out of having Jakob on the roster.

Collins is intriguing. With Murray locked into the team for the foreseeable future, trading White is the only realistic way to break up the starting back-court duo that is going to cap the team's ceiling. If they can move him as the vast bulk of the value in a Collins trade, I can't say it would be bad. Of course, the Spurs could have just offer Collins a contract rather than go with McD and Zach, but that's in the past. Personally, if it's possible I'd rather the Spurs wait until the off-season to make a Collins trade. Murray and Collins aren't a contending duo. They'd still need a third star, beyond what Vassell or Primo can be expected to become. Hopefully, they'll find it through the draft, but even if they need to trade for that player, getting the highest 2022 draft pick possible is a key to that strategy. I think they're likely only a play-in team if they trade for Collins now, but even that could drop their pick immensely. Unless the Hawks need Thad or unless they're willing to take McDermott back, the Spurs should prefer holding off. Of course, if it's do or die, you deal with the lower pick.

Also, they should trade Johnson. He's not a serious starter on a team with a real rotation. Very few teams have a combo-forward-in-a-good-way needed to make him work defensively. Maybe he could go to a team like Boston in exchange for the draft capital the Spurs need to off-set a Collins trade. Boston is one of the rare teams that could use him, especially if they otherwise trade Brown. Ideally, I'd like the Spurs to run Murray, 2022 first, Vassell, Collins, Poeltl as the starting five next season, even if we all know the Spurs will send the guy to Austin.

[RC_Drunkford]

Collins is on a 23 million dollar contract. That's actually ok and he's locked in for 5 years, 23 years old and fixes a major hole on the team. I say get him, but I wouldn't give up a Spurs first round pick. Maybe multiple 2nds including that high Detroit 2nd rounder. A package of White and Hernangomez (Not sure if the Spurs can trade him again, but I think they can) Detroit 2nd and a future 2nd would probably improve both teams.


A 3-team deal would also work:

Spurs get Collins and Osman
Hawks get White and Young
Cavs get Walker and Dieng or Lou Will

include some 2nds to sweeten the deal

bottom line is the Spurs should shop Young, Hernangomez, McDermott, Walker and they should see what they can get for White and Poeltl. If there's an upgrade available you go for it.

[BacktoBasics]

There's no logic in Cedi. The Spurs already have Hernangomez and should be looking to draft their starting forward of the future.

Hopefully the Spurs find a good package for Poeltl. The value of non-star centers is capped pretty hard. If I were the Spurs, I'd absolutely not commit to having my starting five be a well-paid role-player. If they keep their heads up, they can find a quality center much closer to the time when they need one. Unless they think they'll be a solid playoff competitor next year (and for fucks sake, no they aren't just some internal growth from that right now; they'd be in the lottery again next year), they aren't going to be in a position to get value out of having Jakob on the roster.

Collins is intriguing. With Murray locked into the team for the foreseeable future, trading White is the only realistic way to break up the starting back-court duo that is going to cap the team's ceiling. If they can move him as the vast bulk of the value in a Collins trade, I can't say it would be bad. Of course, the Spurs could have just offer Collins a contract rather than go with McD and Zach, but that's in the past. Personally, if it's possible I'd rather the Spurs wait until the off-season to make a Collins trade. Murray and Collins aren't a contending duo. They'd still need a third star, beyond what Vassell or Primo can be expected to become. Hopefully, they'll find it through the draft, but even if they need to trade for that player, getting the highest 2022 draft pick possible is a key to that strategy. I think they're likely only a play-in team if they trade for Collins now, but even that could drop their pick immensely. Unless the Hawks need Thad or unless they're willing to take McDermott back, the Spurs should prefer holding off. Of course, if it's do or die, you deal with the lower pick.

Also, they should trade Johnson. He's not a serious starter on a team with a real rotation. Very few teams have a combo-forward-in-a-good-way needed to make him work defensively. Maybe he could go to a team like Boston in exchange for the draft capital the Spurs need to off-set a Collins trade. Boston is one of the rare teams that could use him, especially if they otherwise trade Brown. Ideally, I'd like the Spurs to run Murray, 2022 first, Vassell, Collins, Poeltl as the starting five next season, even if we all know the Spurs will send the guy to Austin.

If you’re gonna roll draft capital into a bigger deal then I’m in but trading a quality role player to roll the dice on another mid to late round first isn’t appealing to me. I’d rather sit on our assets if we’re not going to level up. Stacking mid round firsts isn’t going to change much.

[Chinook]

If you’re gonna roll draft capital into a bigger deal then I’m in but trading a quality role player to roll the dice on another mid to late round first isn’t appealing to me. I’d rather sit on our assets if we’re not going to level up. Stacking mid round firsts isn’t going to change much.

If they're content to get Johnson to come off the bench, I actually think he'd be a very good flex forward. But they shouldn't think of him as a starter, because he's not good enough to bend the rest of the lineup around him. They're going to need a good scoring wing next to Murray and Vassell, and I'd like them to have two bigs with size. Johnson as a 3.7 doesn't cut it for him. Even without Collins, I see Devin as the SF of the future and the draft as the place where their PF is.

[BatManu20]

Looks like I’m in the minority here, but I don’t really want Collins. Watched him a handful of times this season and he’s just not worth the money he makes. Poor offensive player unless it’s garbage points, easy lobs from Trae, or the occasional open midrange jumper. Can’t create his own offense whatsoever. Plus his attitude seems like it sucks.

He’s a solid defender though which I’d welcome. Along with his athleticism. No way I’d give up a 1st for him though unless it was heavily protected. No chance. I’d much rather have our FRP for the next 3 years.

[Chinook]

He's shooting over 40 percent from three and is a clear positive in any offensive stat out there. WTF can one watch to get the impression he's poor or limited on that end? The idea that PFs are supposed to be creators should go too. The Spurs are a team full of guys who'd rather defer instead of finish plays. Collins shouldn't get shit for taking advantage of his perimeter players. He'd absolutely thrive being the outlet for Murray, Lonnie, Devin and the other guys.

[Thomas82]

If you’re gonna roll draft capital into a bigger deal then I’m in but trading a quality role player to roll the dice on another mid to late round first isn’t appealing to me. I’d rather sit on our assets if we’re not going to level up. Stacking mid round firsts isn’t going to change much.

I feel the same way. In fact, I would rather wait until the summer to do any trades to keep from messing up our draft pick.

[Dverde]

Good idea on a thread. Trad Young needs to happen soon. Poodle for Wiseman could be a panic move if another West contender makes a move.

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

Dejounte Murray - keep
Devin Vassell - keep
Joshua Primo - keep

Jakob Poeltl - tradable
Keldon Johnson - tradable
Derrick White - tradable
Doug McDermott - tradable
Thaddeus Young - tradable
Lonnie Walker IV - tradable
Keita Bates-Diop - tradable
Tre Jones - tradable

Jock Landale - tradable/cut
Drew Eubanks - tradable/cut
Juancho Hernangómez - tradable/cut

Joe Wieskamp - wait and see

Zach Collins - wait and see/tradable/cut

Devontae Cacok - doesn't matter

[NASpurs]

It would be sick to have the Collins brothers on the same team.

[Mr. Body]

Looks like I’m in the minority here, but I don’t really want Collins. Watched him a handful of times this season and he’s just not worth the money he makes. Poor offensive player unless it’s garbage points, easy lobs from Trae, or the occasional open midrange jumper. Can’t create his own offense whatsoever. Plus his attitude seems like it sucks.

He’s a solid defender though which I’d welcome. Along with his athleticism. No way I’d give up a 1st for him though unless it was heavily protected. No chance. I’d much rather have our FRP for the next 3 years.

People here don't even know what they want. They were freaking out over Lauri Markkannen over the summer. The fact that Atlanta is wanting to get rid of him after signing him to a big contract should give everone pause. Plenty of news about him being a malcontent, too, as you say. People think they're playing a video game.

[CGD]

Collins is on a 23 million dollar contract. That's actually ok and he's locked in for 5 years, 23 years old and fixes a major hole on the team. I say get him, but I wouldn't give up a Spurs first round pick. Maybe multiple 2nds including that high Detroit 2nd rounder. A package of White and Hernangomez (Not sure if the Spurs can trade him again, but I think they can) Detroit 2nd and a future 2nd would probably improve both teams.


A 3-team deal would also work:

Spurs get Collins and Osman
Hawks get White and Young
Cavs get Walker and Dieng or Lou Will

include some 2nds to sweeten the deal

bottom line is the Spurs should shop Young, Hernangomez, McDermott, Walker and they should see what they can get for White and Poeltl. If there's an upgrade available you go for it.

It’s a sensible trade that balances out the roster nicely. But as other have mentioned, shouldn’t come at cost of jeopardizing draft position and might be best for off season

First Unit: DJ, Vassell, Doug, Collins, Jakob
Second Unit: Primo, Cedi, Keldon, Juancho, Zollins

[exstatic]

It would be sick to have the Collins brothers on the same team.


People here don't even know what they want. They were freaking out over Lauri Markkannen over the summer. The fact that Atlanta is wanting to get rid of him after signing him to a big contract should give everone pause. Plenty of news about him being a malcontent, too, as you say. People think they're playing a video game.

Imagine how thrilled he’d be to go from an ECF team to the lottery.

[hoopdreams11]

:lol a lot of figureheads are proposing that Lakers package for Murray

Lakrers had Lonzo Ball, Alex Caruso,D Russell, and Gary Payton and they gave up on them

[MannyIsGod]

Is this where everyone falls in love with John Collins beyond all reason? What a fickle bunch of schoolgirls y'all are. If it's not Ben Simmons, it's John Collins. It's adorable.

All you do is bitch. Like do you ever make a non miserable post? Imagine fans of a basement lottery team wanting to acquire players that are all star level. WOW, fucking shocking! I'm not sure you'd trade for Jordan at this point.

[exstatic]

Lakrers had Lonzo Ball, Alex Caruso,D Russell, and Gary Payton and they gave up on them

And Julius Randle, Brandon Ingraham, Jason Hart.

[MannyIsGod]

Dejounte Murray - keep
Devin Vassell - keep
Joshua Primo - keep

Jakob Poeltl - tradable
Keldon Johnson - tradable
Derrick White - tradable
Doug McDermott - tradable
Thaddeus Young - tradable
Lonnie Walker IV - tradable
Keita Bates-Diop - tradable
Tre Jones - tradable

Jock Landale - tradable/cut
Drew Eubanks - tradable/cut
Juancho Hernangómez - tradable/cut

Joe Wieskamp - wait and see

Zach Collins - wait and see/tradable/cut

Devontae Cacok - doesn't matter

This is pretty close to my ranking right now. I would bump Landale up even if he has sucked the last couple of weeks. I still think he can be a valuable role player.

[MannyIsGod]

John Collins is on a reasonable contract and is a damn good 4 who currently plays with a defensive first center. He is a plus on both sides of the ball. He's a borderline allstar, and if all you have to give up is White, filler, and a future pick, then what the fuck is there to think about honestly? The Spurs aren't going to trade next years pick, so its 100% something they should be looking to do. They could even trade the Chicago pick of Atlanta will take that.

[Notorious H.O.P.]

He couldn’t guard a mannakin at this point. Think 6’10” Forbes.

Curious. Is this an old Buck Harvey/Lloyd Daniels reference?

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

I know most of us are homers but we can't reasonably think the Spurs could get John Collins without sending out firsts. Atlanta got a first for Cam Reddish who's barely an NBA player ffs, come on.

I like the news about multiple teams calling about Poeltl. There are teams that need centers and with Turner's injury Poeltl might be the best one on the market, or close to it anyway. He's a fine player but if they can get a good deal for him they absolutely should cash in. The best Toronto offer I can see would be Boucher, Precious and a top 10 protected 1st. I'd expect the Spurs would want more though. If they could get anything better than this package I'm all for trading him.

All the rumors suggest the Spurs are way more active than usual, which promises an interesting trade deadline.

[BackHome]

What would you think the Raptors would have to offer us for Pop to co-sign the trade?

[spurraider21]

And Julius Randle, Brandon Ingraham, Jason Hart.
Jordan Clarkson

[baseline bum]

Jordan Clarkson

Javaris Crittenton

[spurraider21]

Wouldn’t mind seeing White moved as part of a deal for Collins. Can play with the Bulls pick too

[Atl Spur]

White is our sixth man….keep him

[tbdog]

White is our sixth man….keep him

Collins would be out staring pf. Get him.

[RC_Drunkford]

All you do is bitch. Like do you ever make a non miserable post? Imagine fans of a basement lottery team wanting to acquire players that are all star level. WOW, fucking shocking! I'm not sure you'd trade for Jordan at this point.

Spurs fans don't want Jordan. Jordan is too selfish and not over himself. Spurs fans like flawed role players who love to bend over, like Trey Lyles

[KingKev]

White is our sixth man….keep him

it’s hard to worry about a 6th man when you have multiple starters already who are better suited off the bench.

[KingKev]

All you do is bitch. Like do you ever make a non miserable post? Imagine fans of a basement lottery team wanting to acquire players that are all star level. WOW, fucking shocking! I'm not sure you'd trade for Jordan at this point.

hahah he does bitch alot

[Mr. Body]

All you do is bitch. Like do you ever make a non miserable post? Imagine fans of a basement lottery team wanting to acquire players that are all star level. WOW, fucking shocking! I'm not sure you'd trade for Jordan at this point.

Lol. I only tell you that you're morons when you're being morons. Try not to be morons so much, maybe? I know it may be hard. LMAO, truly.

[Mr. Body]

Spurs fans don't want Jordan. Jordan is too selfish and not over himself. Spurs fans like flawed role players who love to bend over, like Trey Lyles

Now John Collins is Michael Jordan. OMG this is hilarious. It's like an orgy of the mentally incapacitated.

[Dverde]

I also don’t like Collins. He makes a couple good plays then disappears and he already on a big contract. He’s whining about touches after signing a new contract. Not over himself yet

[RC_Drunkford]

Now John Collins is Michael Jordan. OMG this is hilarious. It's like an orgy of the mentally incapacitated.

nobody said that. Learn how to read.

[Chinook]

I think Bod's fundamental misunderstanding is he thinks folks don't covet players unless the Spurs are rumored to trade for them. That's why he can't distinguish between Markkanen, a player basically no one wanted but because of credible rumors people discussed, with Simmons or Collins -- players who have a long history of STers being interested in him. He seems to think the rumors are creating the fan interest rather than just bringing the interest into the conversation. He should pay more attention to random threads rather than the big ones.

I know for me, there are probably 20-30 players on other teams that I'd actively want the Spurs to pursue. Most of them aren't attainable for what the Spurs can responsibly offer. Some of them might be attainable in a future window that hasn't opened yet. So if those circumstances change and one of those players becomes available, my advocacy isn't coming from a new shiny bauble -- it's me cracking open the arguments I already had now that there's an appropriate reason to discuss. When the rumor involves a player who isn't in that 20-30, (like Mark or more recently Cedi), I'll discuss it without the advocacy.

Also, he seems to think that coveting a player is somehow falling for a scam, like we're all donating to a GoFundMe to pay the player's salary or whatever. Interest in potential player acquisitions is a fundamental part of a sports message board. We're not supposed to sit here and go, "Our team is awesome. I'm sure they'll improve... somehow. I mean, we shouldn't speculate, but I'm sure they'll make it better. Until then, we've just gotta support them 100 percent." I guess some posters are like that. But it's not the norm, thankfully.

[LeBowen]

John Collins is on a reasonable contract and is a damn good 4 who currently plays with a defensive first center. He is a plus on both sides of the ball. He's a borderline allstar, and if all you have to give up is White, filler, and a future pick, then what the fuck is there to think about honestly? The Spurs aren't going to trade next years pick, so its 100% something they should be looking to do. They could even trade the Chicago pick of Atlanta will take that.

I feel like this entire forum goes into some kind of parallel universe during games.
In every game thread we collectively shit on almost everyone. (deservedly so)
But then you check the trade topics and everyone goes into full Morey mode.

We're a bottom 5 team in the league. Look at the standings.
Pelicans and Blazers are missing their best players and have better records. And they're not any good.
The only records worse than ours 4 teams that are blatantly tanking with g-leaguers and two teams trying to have a firesale.

Unless most people here think our young guys will suddenly make huge improvements and become all-stars, this roster isn't going anywhere.
Not if we rely on 28 year old injury-prone Derrick White to magically become a consistent shooter over the summer.

Idk how closely people in here follow the rest of the league, but other than DJ and potentially Devin/Primo, our guys are nothing special. Ball don't lie, we don't deserve more than current 12th seed.

As I said yesterday, Collins is a perfect fit. He's not a star player, far from it, but he's exactly what this roster needs. Big, athletic forward who happens to be a better shooter than everyone on our roster. Except for McDermott, but that's all he does.
Players fitting together well is what makes good teams, not their individual quality. And it's not like we have individual quality, either.

Collins would enable Keldon to match up against players of his own size, he'd space the floor better than Derrick and he'd be a huge rebounding presence. He can also play at C against small lineups.
Obviously we'd lose our most stable pnr ballhandler, but there has to be a trade off.

And it's not like Collins is on some huge deal, he's making 8 million more than Derrick. It's not like we'll be in the running for some big signings in the offseason.

With that being said, I wouldn't give up that much for him because Hawks are obviously trying to trade him.
Derrick+Lonnie(if they want him)+Thad+Chicago pick for Collins+salary filler. Maybe another second rounder or something. I wouldn't give them any of our own first rounders.

[Dejounte]

Yeah, the norm is that people should subscribe to calling people homers if you support the team in any capacity, and if not, then you’re being totally 100% reasonable. It’s only one or the other. If you have any hope whatsoever for any player on the current roster, you’re a homer. You can roll your eyes all you want, Chinook, but this voice of reason you’ve self appointed yourself as reeks of total arrogance. I’m not even supporting Mr Body as I think he’s too much at times. But I think it’s worse when someone is out here thinking he’s never wrong. Nobody actually goes and says this team is awesome but it’s such an easy thing to twist someone’s views to the extreme when you fundamentally don’t believe one thing they believe in.

such a weak thing to subscribe to.

[exstatic]

I don’t want Collins, because he’s going to fuck up our draft pick. He’s probably not even good enough to elevate this team to the playoffs given a full season. I mean, DeRozan is a far better player, and he couldn’t do it the last two years. Why would you get a guy making $23M who likely can’t even make you a playoff team?

[Seventyniner]

Ideally, I'd like the Spurs to run Murray, 2022 first, Vassell, Collins, Poeltl as the starting five next season, even if we all know the Spurs will send the guy to Austin.

Why not put Primo in place of the 2022 1st? You think the Spurs will draft a SG with Collins on the roster?

[Chinook]

Why not put Primo in place of the 2022 1st? You think the Spurs will draft a SG with Collins on the roster?

According to mock drafts, there are going to be a lot of PFs and other front-court guys going at the top of the draft. That means there should be talented guards who fly under the radar. I think with Lonnie gone and Keldon not part of the (read: my) plans, the team has a hole for a scoring wing. Without Collins, the hole is definitely at PF, but with him in and Derrick (and probably Lonnie) gone, I'd definitely want the Spurs to draft some guard. It could even be a PG so long as the guy has some size and can switch off with Murray defensively. That doesn't mean I'm giving up on Primo, but I'd want the Spurs to draft a surer thing at SG to consider Josh to be found money if he develops. Hopefully both guys hit and the team has its guard rotation for the next few years.

[Chinook]

Yeah, the norm is that people should subscribe to calling people homers if you support the team in any capacity, and if not, then you’re being totally 100% reasonable. It’s only one or the other. If you have any hope whatsoever for any player on the current roster, you’re a homer. You can roll your eyes all you want, Chinook, but this voice of reason you’ve self appointed yourself as reeks of total arrogance. I’m not even supporting Mr Body as I think he’s too much at times. But I think it’s worse when someone is out here thinking he’s never wrong. Nobody actually goes and says this team is awesome but it’s such an easy thing to twist someone’s views to the extreme when you fundamentally don’t believe one thing they believe in.

such a weak thing to subscribe to.

Bro, I have to ask you this: If you think you're wrong about something, why would you say it? This is just the stupid, "You didn't say 'in my opinion'" argument over again. Obviously I've said wrong stuff. I used to make an annual thread where we talked about our worst take of the year. I don't actually see anyone else -- including you -- having to run around qualifying everything they say to meet your standards. I think you should admit that you don't have a good reason for your criticism besides apparent hurt feelings.

We have a thread where people thought the Spurs were a top-five team when healthy, and when the idea was bumped, the response was, "They will be next year." And yes, there are people who do criticize people talking about acquiring other players and who don't want to engage with any discussion about the direction of the team because they believe the team is going in the best direction possible due to trusting the people running the show. My point was that the speculation and discussion over things that might but probably won't come to pass is inherent to these types of sites and not a sign of a weak constitution or lack of discernment or whatever. I think you agree with that take but because I made it you feel the need to pretend like it's problematic.

[LeBowen]

I don’t want Collins, because he’s going to fuck up our draft pick. He’s probably not even good enough to elevate this team to the playoffs given a full season. I mean, DeRozan is a far better player, and he couldn’t do it the last two years. Why would you get a guy making $23M who likely can’t even make you a playoff team?


And realistically, who would you get? I'm talking about players who'd be interested in joining, not some pipe dream trades.
We probably won't get a top5 pick either way, one or two spots won't make a difference.

I'm not one of those fans saying everyone on our roster is useless, but they're all fundamentally flawed for modern game and unless you plan on running everyone's contract down and letting them walk, it's about time we make some trades and play to our players' strengths instead of trying to make some of them fit into roles they're not comfortable with. Derrick isn't comfortable with being the off-ball guard who has to shoot way more than he likes.

Our roster right now is as follows.

Guards:
DJ - best player on the team, developed into a legit all-star. Even his 3pt shoot looks good, but he'll never be a consistent pull-up threat from deep like other all-star guards. One of the best guard defenders in the league.
Derrick - great defender, better than DJ at running the PNR, but another subpar shooter. If we want them to fit together well on offense, we need forwards to be great 3pt shooters and a big who can stretch the floor.
Tre - might develop into a decent backup, but another point guard with no range.
Lonnie - we all had huge expectations, I was one of his biggest fans, he has all the tools necessary, but he's just not that guy.
Devin - developing well, I have big expecatations. He can't run the offense at all, but should develop into a Danny Green 2.0. Definite keeper. Our best guard 3pt shooter.
Primo - showing flashes of huge potential, but he's a year or two away. Still, definitely deserves minutes right away because we're not going anyhwere this season.

Wings:
Keldon - impressive 3pt percentage so far, but that's not his game. He wants to drive, bully people and draw fouls. And he can be damn good at it. Not having an actual PF next to him is really hurting him against teams with size. Instead of having him bully smaller wings and there are plenty of them in today's league, he's stuck with being the undersized guy in most matchups.
McDermott - great at what he does, doesn't do much else.
KBD - decent third stringer who looks good on our roster because we literally don't have a big wing. Not good enough to be anything more than 9th or 10th man in rotation.
Weiskamp - might be useful one day.

Bigs:
Jakob - great at his role, useless outside of his comfort zone. If we were a team with great spacing, he'd do even better. But we have awful spacing and he's a negative on offense in a lot of games.
Landale - could be a decent backup, nothing special.
Eubanks - ugh.
Collins - hopefully he can stay healthy, he'd be a great upgrade for the bench.


Won't even mention Thad because he's in the doghouse and I think the same will happen to Hernangomez.

There you have it, I didn't say anything we don't already know, but this roster's spacing and size is just horrible. Teams usually have size or spacing issues, we have both. Someone like Collins fixes that and enables everyone to play in their natural roles instead of trying to fit everyone in when it obviously can't work.

Everyone on our starting lineup is a good player in their natural role. But noone is good enough to play in a badly constructed team. Just look at Demar. He's the same player he was last season, but now he has actual floor spacers and can do his thing with ease.

Anyhow, back to my question. How would you solve the issues of this roster? What's the timeline you're looking at? If you ask me, I'd like this team to make the play-in tournament next season. If not, then by all means, get some more tank commanders on the roster.

Imo, there are two way to fix this roster. Either make some big moves, which won't happen with PATFO.
Second, more realistic option is to trade a player or two and get an actual power forward who spaces the floor. Collins is a perfect fit for that. Might be overpaid, but it's not like we need to hand out a couple of max deals in the summer and need the cap space. Derrick is a good player and more importantly the Hawks want him. He'd do better there than here because they'd be a better fit for him. Teams trade good players because they're a bad fit all the time. Right now unless we somehow fleece someone or draft the next big thing, our only way actually improve and get DJ, Devin and Keldon more comfortable is to trade either Derrick or Jakob. Or both. But we need some damn size at PF a big who can space the floor.

I don't see any other realistic targets who fit the timeline.

This turned out to be a rant, whatever.

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

no point in getting someone who will get us a worse pick but not to the playoffs

right now i would be holding on to the spurs' picks like grim death. we should be acquiring (or enhancing) picks, not shipping them out

[Leetonidas]

Lol. I only tell you that you're morons when you're being morons. Try not to be morons so much, maybe? I know it may be hard. LMAO, truly.

You could always just stfu and fuck off and not post in my thread. No one gives a fuck about your whining bullshit anyway

[exstatic]

And realistically, who would you get? I'm talking about players who'd be interested in joining, not some pipe dream trades.
We probably won't get a top5 pick either way, one or two spots won't make a difference.

I'm not one of those fans saying everyone on our roster is useless, but they're all fundamentally flawed for modern game and unless you plan on running everyone's contract down and letting them walk, it's about time we make some trades and play to our players' strengths instead of trying to make some of them fit into roles they're not comfortable with. Derrick isn't comfortable with being the off-ball guard who has to shoot way more than he likes.

Our roster right now is as follows.

Guards:
DJ - best player on the team, developed into a legit all-star. Even his 3pt shoot looks good, but he'll never be a consistent pull-up threat from deep like other all-star guards. One of the best guard defenders in the league.
Derrick - great defender, better than DJ at running the PNR, but another subpar shooter. If we want them to fit together well on offense, we need forwards to be great 3pt shooters and a big who can stretch the floor.
Tre - might develop into a decent backup, but another point guard with no range.
Lonnie - we all had huge expectations, I was one of his biggest fans, he has all the tools necessary, but he's just not that guy.
Devin - developing well, I have big expecatations. He can't run the offense at all, but should develop into a Danny Green 2.0. Definite keeper. Our best guard 3pt shooter.
Primo - showing flashes of huge potential, but he's a year or two away. Still, definitely deserves minutes right away because we're not going anyhwere this season.

Wings:
Keldon - impressive 3pt percentage so far, but that's not his game. He wants to drive, bully people and draw fouls. And he can be damn good at it. Not having an actual PF next to him is really hurting him against teams with size. Instead of having him bully smaller wings and there are plenty of them in today's league, he's stuck with being the undersized guy in most matchups.
McDermott - great at what he does, doesn't do much else.
KBD - decent third stringer who looks good on our roster because we literally don't have a big wing. Not good enough to be anything more than 9th or 10th man in rotation.
Weiskamp - might be useful one day.

Bigs:
Jakob - great at his role, useless outside of his comfort zone. If we were a team with great spacing, he'd do even better. But we have awful spacing and he's a negative on offense in a lot of games.
Landale - could be a decent backup, nothing special.
Eubanks - ugh.
Collins - hopefully he can stay healthy, he'd be a great upgrade for the bench.


Won't even mention Thad because he's in the doghouse and I think the same will happen to Hernangomez.

There you have it, I didn't say anything we don't already know, but this roster's spacing and size is just horrible. Teams usually have size or spacing issues, we have both. Someone like Collins fixes that and enables everyone to play in their natural roles instead of trying to fit everyone in when it obviously can't work.

Everyone on our starting lineup is a good player in their natural role. But noone is good enough to play in a badly constructed team. Just look at Demar. He's the same player he was last season, but now he has actual floor spacers and can do his thing with ease.

Anyhow, back to my question. How would you solve the issues of this roster? What's the timeline you're looking at? If you ask me, I'd like this team to make the play-in tournament next season. If not, then by all means, get some more tank commanders on the roster.

Imo, there are two way to fix this roster. Either make some big moves, which won't happen with PATFO.
Second, more realistic option is to trade a player or two and get an actual power forward who spaces the floor. Collins is a perfect fit for that. Might be overpaid, but it's not like we need to hand out a couple of max deals in the summer and need the cap space. Derrick is a good player and more importantly the Hawks want him. He'd do better there than here because they'd be a better fit for him. Teams trade good players because they're a bad fit all the time. Right now unless we somehow fleece someone or draft the next big thing, our only way actually improve and get DJ, Devin and Keldon more comfortable is to trade either Derrick or Jakob. Or both. But we need some damn size at PF a big who can space the floor.

I don't see any other realistic targets who fit the timeline.

This turned out to be a rant, whatever.

I’m not totally averse to him this summer after the draft (and yes, we have a pretty good chance at a top 4 pick). I’m just not unsure that you can’t get 85-90% of his production from Jalen Smith at 30-40% of the cost. If you can’t make the playoffs, take chances like we did with Zollins, and keep your cap space powder dry.

I’m for the ‘slow and steady wins the race’ approach, like Cleveland did. They rented their cap space, and just used their first rounders well, until suddenly, they’re a top half EC playoff team. If anyone told you this summer they knew this was going to happen, go ahead now, and call them a liar.

As for the draft, we have a great shot at a top 4 pick with the new system. Since it’s inception, the following teams have jumped into the top 4:

2019: 7,8,11
2020: 7,8
2021: 5,7

So, out of 12 total top 4 picks, 7 were made by teams starting outside the top 4. The cherry on top is that the worst team has never drawn the #1 pick under the new system. We’re currently sitting at #7, which seems to be particularly and appropriately lucky, getting into the top 4 each year..

[MannyIsGod]

I will say this, if the Spurs get Collins you can forget about the tank. They will gun for the play in hard af and they'd probably get it. Thats less than ideal at this point in the season. On the other hand, if they don't pick up anyone very good at the deadline - and especially if they offload poeltl - then I fully expect the team to start playing Primo in Lonnies minutes. Out of those two options, I still want Collins. I think the sure thing at PF locked up for 4+ years is better than a draftpick who might turn out to be better but might also turn out to be worse.

[KobesAchilles]

I would rather not get any new long term contracts until the next coach comes over and decidedly has a plan for the player we are trading for. There's zero point in getting Collins if Pop is going to retire at the end of they year. Stick with absorbing bad contracts and collecting FRPs. We should not be any type of buyer without receiving a pick in return

[KingKev]

I’m not totally averse to him this summer after the draft (and yes, we have a pretty good chance at a top 4 pick). I’m just not unsure that you can’t get 85-90% of his production from Jalen Smith at 30-40% of the cost. If you can’t make the playoffs, take chances like we did with Zollins, and keep your cap space powder dry.

I’m for the ‘slow and steady wins the race’ approach, like Cleveland did. They rented their cap space, and just used their first rounders well, until suddenly, they’re a top half EC playoff team. If anyone told you this summer they knew this was going to happen, go ahead now, and call them a liar.

As for the draft, we have a great shot at a top 4 pick with the new system. Since it’s inception, the following teams have jumped into the top 4:

2019: 7,8,11
2020: 7,8
2021: 5,7

So, out of 12 total top 4 picks, 7 were made by teams starting outside the top 4. The cherry on top is that the worst team has never drawn the #1 pick under the new system. We’re currently sitting at #7, which seems to be particularly and appropriately lucky, getting into the top 4 each year..

This is where I’m at in many ways also. I like Collins and see him as a pretty good fit, I think his contract is reasonable and he would be a solid building block to go along with Murray but I’d be more interested in him after the draft/during free agency. If we can get him for White and some combo of Walker, Thad, McDermott and SRPs (Detroit's 22 is basically a late FRP) I would still make it at the deadline. Otherwise, i’ll wait and see where our chips fall come offseason. The ability to draft some of the intriguing PFs in this years draft are preferable unless there is a clear cut guard/wing we are targeting.

[exstatic]

I don’t understand posters who want to offload Poeltl because he’s a ‘win now player’ yet want John Collins, who is also very much a ‘win now player’, and one whole year younger than Jakob.

[KingKev]

I would rather not get any new long term contracts until the next coach comes over and decidedly has a plan for the player we are trading for. There's zero point in getting Collins if Pop is going to retire at the end of they year. Stick with absorbing bad contracts and collecting FRPs. We should not be any type of buyer without receiving a pick in return

Onboard with this. Probably is we don’t seem very capable at renting cap space.

[CGD]

I will say this, if the Spurs get Collins you can forget about the tank. They will gun for the play in hard af and they'd probably get it. Thats less than ideal at this point in the season. On the other hand, if they don't pick up anyone very good at the deadline - and especially if they offload poeltl - then I fully expect the team to start playing Primo in Lonnies minutes. Out of those two options, I still want Collins. I think the sure thing at PF locked up for 4+ years is better than a draftpick who might turn out to be better but might also turn out to be worse.

Yup, which probably makes this trade idea better fodder for the summer since both Derrick and Collins are both under contract long term.

That aside, the Collins thing really feels like it’s going to get wrapped up in the Harden decision now. In that world the spurs are like 3 steps removed from that line up of dominoes, so probably better to focus on getting our PF in the draft.

[KingKev]

I don’t understand posters who want to offload Poeltl because he’s a ‘win now player’ yet want John Collins, who is also very much a ‘win now player’, and one whole year younger than Jakob.

From my perspective Collins has more upside. Both win now players but I think there is a good chance he can get better on both sides of the ball.

[NASpurs]

I understand both sides of the coin when it comes to people wanting to get a high lottery pick or trading for a player that could get us in the play-ins.

But the most important thing out of this whole situation is that Forbes is gone. Fvck! that guy.

[exstatic]

Yup, which probably makes this trade idea better fodder for the summer since both Derrick and Collins are both under contract long term.

That aside, the Collins thing really feels like it’s going to get wrapped up in the Harden decision now. In that world the spurs are like 3 steps removed from that line up of dominoes, so probably better to focus on getting our PF in the draft.

Brooklyn has said they will basically hang up on anyone calling about Harden at the trade deadline. Dame has been injured most of the season, and Beal seems content in DC, so the whole Simmons thing will probably roll into the summer FA/trade period.

[MannyIsGod]

I don’t understand posters who want to offload Poeltl because he’s a ‘win now player’ yet want John Collins, who is also very much a ‘win now player’, and one whole year younger than Jakob.

Collins is locked in for years having just signed a contract. Poeltl is about to go into free agency after next year. Collins is on a reasonable deal. Jakob is on a cheap deal, that may end up in a reasonable deal, but will more likely get overpaid and not be nearly as good a value. Collins is a needed piece that is much harder to fill. Jakob is an above average defensive center who has lots of offensive holes and is MUCH easier to replace.

Also, Collins is just flat out much better than Jakob.

Its not really hard to understand.

[MannyIsGod]

It would 100% be preferable to do a Collins deal in the offseason. But its also not even close to a sure thing that you CAN do that deal in the offseason. First, Collins is a good player under contract for a long ass time. The amount of suitors in the offseason will increase tremendously, and that's beyond the fact that there will be other teams that want him right NOW. Atlanta could also figure out that trading him is stupid as they are unlikely to get good value for him.

If its possible to trade white + filler + a FRP for Collins now, you do it.

[exstatic]

From my perspective Collins has more upside. Both win now players but I think there is a good chance he can get better on both sides of the ball.

Decent take, but I think after 5 seasons, a guy drafted at #19 isn’t going to show any shocking improvements. YMMV.

[Chinook]

I don’t understand posters who want to offload Poeltl because he’s a ‘win now player’ yet want John Collins, who is also very much a ‘win now player’, and one whole year younger than Jakob.

Can't speak for everyone (even if I'm the self-appointed voice of reason). But for me, I don't just have one desired course of action for the team. If the Spurs could acquire Collins without moving Poeltl, I would want them to keep him. They'd be in a win-now situation at that point. If they decided to collect picks and tank, I want them to trade Poeltl, because without an aggressive move, they won't be a competitor over the life of his contract.

Murray, Vassell, Collins and Poeltl are four members of what could be a strong and balanced starting unit. Without too much imagination, they could get a near-max slot this summer to add a missing piece. Or the perfect win-now player could fall to them in the draft. In my opinion, that's worth trading protected Spurs picks to secure. But there are drastically different courses of actions the Spurs could take, and at each step in those courses, I have preferred follow-up moves I'd advocate the team to make.

[exstatic]

Collins is locked in for years having just signed a contract. Poeltl is about to go into free agency after next year. Collins is on a reasonable deal. Jakob is on a cheap deal, that may end up in a reasonable deal, but will more likely get overpaid and not be nearly as good a value. Collins is a needed piece that is much harder to fill. Jakob is an above average defensive center who has lots of offensive holes and is MUCH easier to replace.

Also, Collins is just flat out much better than Jakob.

Its not really hard to understand.

The point was that they’re both win now players. Either you want to come out of the tank, or not. I’m not doubting that Collins improves us, just how much, and is that the path for us to take.

[jermaine]

Dejounte Murray - keep
Devin Vassell - keep
Joshua Primo - keep

Jakob Poeltl - tradable
Keldon Johnson - tradable
Derrick White - tradable
Doug McDermott - tradable
Thaddeus Young - tradable
Lonnie Walker IV - tradable
Keita Bates-Diop - tradable
Tre Jones - tradable

Jock Landale - tradable/cut
Drew Eubanks - tradable/cut
Juancho Hernangómez - tradable/cut

Joe Wieskamp - wait and see

Zach Collins - wait and see/tradable/cut

Devontae Cacok - doesn't matter

Tre Jones is a keep type player. He dont do to much an he knows his place. Other than that, I love your list.

[MannyIsGod]

Chinook makes a good point too. Its not either or. If they get Collins for white + filler + pick then there is no reason to trade Jakob.

[KingKev]

Decent take, but I think after 5 seasons, a guy drafted at #19 isn’t going to show any shocking improvements. YMMV.

It's more about opportunity. Upside to become a more focal point of an offense.

[MannyIsGod]

The point was that they’re both win now players. Either you want to come out of the tank, or not. I’m not doubting that Collins improves us, just how much, and is that the path for us to take.

Sure but they're not tied together. Wanting to move on from Jakob assumes that we're not getting Collins. Atlanta isn't going to want Jakob directly in any trade, so we only send him off if the trade is 3 way in which case I'm still for it because Collins is worth it. But if you get Collins for White + filler + pick then you can keep Jakob. The Spurs at that point have a competitive starting lineup, some young prospects for the bench, and have decent cap room this summer.

Thats a pretty good situation.

[KingKev]

Chinook makes a good point too. Its not either or. If they get Collins for white + filler + pick then there is no reason to trade Jakob.

Jakob/Collins would be great complimentary bigs. Still need to consider Jak is due for a payday in 2023. Hell nothing to stop us from getting something now for him and bringing him back when he hits free agency in 2023 if the price is right and we likely have material cap space.

[Leetonidas]

I don't think getting Collins signifies the Spurs are making the play in or trying for it. Hawks right now are sitting in a similar position to us (12th seed) with superior talent. Collins is a good piece for the future but he is not going to turn our season around alone, especially factoring in what you're losing with White and trying to integrate him halfway thru the season. Spurs get Collins and they are still missing the playoffs, imo

[LeBowen]

My take on Jakob is that he's never going to be a legit playoff C if he doesn't improve his FT%.
Legit as in closing games out, not on a stacked team like the Warriors.

Right now his deal is a bargain, but we need to either extend or trade him this summer. And he'll definitely be in 15 million a year range.
He's not worth that money for a playoff team unless he improves his FTs to 60% at least.

And as good as he is on defense, he's a bad fit with our roster on offense.

The way I look at it is that our long-term core is DJ, Devin, Keldon and Primo. Then we can either strike gold in lottery, improve by trading for a good player like Collins or go all in with a pipe dream trade.

Someone mention Cleveland and I'm not against going the same route, but then we should commit to it. Trade Derrick, Doug and Thad for some more assets and go full tank.
It's just that it looks like Pop is trying to be competitive, but he's not willing to make any moves to improve the roster. And I'm not talking about throwing our own picks away, just trading players to get a better fit.

[Dverde]

We are basically exchanging out chairs on the Titanic. To me it’s obvious we need a new coach and a couple great top 5 picks to get the ship corrected. DJM is a nice player, but I think he is close to wanting out. To his credit he hates losing and we are going to be doing a bunch of that the next couple of years. I sadly believe we owe Pop another year if he wants it. It may not be a horrible thing as he is a great tank commander, he’s out coached himself out of several wins this year.

[KingKev]

I don't think getting Collins signifies the Spurs are making the play in or trying for it. Hawks right now are sitting in a similar position to us (12th seed) with superior talent. Collins is a good piece for the future but he is not going to turn our season around alone, especially factoring in what you're losing with White and trying to integrate him halfway thru the season. Spurs get Collins and they are still missing the playoffs, imo

Yup and hopefully we can “manage” the end of this season. We have a tough schedule between now and the end of the Rodeo Road trip. If Zion returns have to give the Pels the nod for the play in while we battle our tanking counterparts in the King and Blazers.

[MannyIsGod]

I think the Spurs should punt on this season at this point, but I wouldn't be surprised if they make a run at the play in even with no moves. Its not like the play in is a very high bar and these players won't give up. Worst case scenario is Spurs don't make any big moves, play substantially better down the stretch, and sneak into the play in game and get a late lottery pick again. The tank is not promised so ya'll may want to factor that into to your views, IMO.

[exstatic]

Yup and hopefully we can “manage” the end of this season. We have a tough schedule between now and the end of the Rodeo Road trip. If Zion returns have to give the Pels the nod for the play in while we battle our tanking counterparts in the King and Blazers.

You don’t see the Zion/Kawhi parallels? He wants a major market, NY in this case, and is working out away from the team, in a different city?

[KingKev]

You don’t see the Zion/Kawhi parallels? He wants a major market, NY in this case, and is working out away from the team, in a different city?

I don’t. He is injured and terribly overweight. Zion is a pretty good kid from everything I’ve seen. Probably still leaves NO because it’s NO but no Kawhi fuckery from my perspective.

[MultiTroll]

You don’t see the Zion/Kawhi parallels? He wants a major market, NY in this case, and is working out away from the team, in a different city?
Zion looks pathetic feeding his face on the Mountain Dew - Cheetos commercial.

[CGD]

Brooklyn has said they will basically hang up on anyone calling about Harden at the trade deadline. Dame has been injured most of the season, and Beal seems content in DC, so the whole Simmons thing will probably roll into the summer FA/trade period.

Agree on timing, and I do think the NETS and PHI will kick the tires on a trade if Harden demands a move. If that fails, I can see PHI focused in earnest on a Collins-Simmons framework (to include Harris or otherwise). THEN, if that fails, I can see ATL pivoting to a White centric opportunity.

Bottom line: Harden could have have a lot to say on anything revolving around Collins

[exstatic]

Agree on timing, and I do think the NETS and PHI will kick the tires on a trade if Harden demands a move. If that fails, I can see PHI focused in earnest on a Collins-Simmons framework (to include Harris or otherwise). THEN, if that fails, I can see ATL pivoting to a White centric opportunity.

Bottom line: Harden could have have a lot to say on anything revolving around Collins

Simmons/Harris would be a ton of salary to move in one direction in a trade….

[RC_Drunkford]

I don’t want Collins, because he’s going to fuck up our draft pick. He’s probably not even good enough to elevate this team to the playoffs given a full season. I mean, DeRozan is a far better player, and he couldn’t do it the last two years. Why would you get a guy making $23M who likely can’t even make you a playoff team?


dumb take. The roster obviously wasn't built to complement DeRozan's style of play. DeRozan also ain't a PF. Collins on the other hand complements the Spurs style of play perfectly and would fix the biggest hole on the team. Add to that that a lot of players improved their game, so this is not the same team as last years.

[KingKev]

Agree on timing, and I do think the NETS and PHI will kick the tires on a trade if Harden demands a move. If that fails, I can see PHI focused in earnest on a Collins-Simmons framework (to include Harris or otherwise). THEN, if that fails, I can see ATL pivoting to a White centric opportunity.

Bottom line: Harden could have have a lot to say on anything revolving around Collins

Harden will not be moved before the off-season. He has all the power in that situation. Collins and what might transpire around Harden/Simons are independent events.

[CGD]

Harden will not be moved before the off-season. He has all the power in that situation. Collins and what might transpire around Harden/Simons are independent events.

Not if ATL is Morey’s plan B. Do agree it all goes down this summer thigh

[CGD]

Simmons/Harris would be a ton of salary to move in one direction in a trade….

It’s insane to add Harris; that said, theoretically the appeal of ATL for Philly is that they have the Contracts to do it between Collins, Bobdonbitch, and, critically for Philly, Gallos’ near expiring deal.

[RC_Drunkford]

I don’t understand posters who want to offload Poeltl because he’s a ‘win now player’ yet want John Collins, who is also very much a ‘win now player’, and one whole year younger than Jakob.

2 years younger not 1. Collins was born in 97, Jakob 95. 1 month difference. Google is your friend.

[exstatic]

dumb take. The roster obviously wasn't built to complement DeRozan's style of play. DeRozan also ain't a PF. Collins on the other hand complements the Spurs style of play perfectly and would fix the biggest hole on the team. Add to that that a lot of players improved their game, so this is not the same team as last years.
ATL is struggling to make the play in with both Collins AND Trae, who is better than anyone on our roster. How is Collins supposed to elevate this group, none of whom is 70% as talented as Trae?

Dumb take, yourself.

[stnick2261]

Ideally, I would see the roster going forward as:

Murray / White / Primo all splitting minutes at the 1&2 (32mpg each)
Vassell / Johnson splitting minutes at the 3 (24mpg each)
Some kind of roster upgrade at PF
Poeltl / Landale splitting minutes at the 5 (30/18mpg respectively)

With the rest of the roster fighting for backup / Covid / injury / b2b minutes.

I have been 100% on #teamTank to get one of the top big men in the draft but, at our current position, we have a 23.4% chance for a top 3 pick (that still only goes up to 40% for the worst team in the league). If we have a chance to get Collins without losing one of the players listed above, then it accomplishes what I wanted in the draft anyway. If we have to give up White to do it, I would still pull the trigger because White is the oldest and most often injured of those listed, and would be replaced by the many options of SGs in the draft. If Zollins pans out, then we'd finally have a well-rounded team (albeit still young). Let them play 100% next season to gel together and evaluate... and use the massive cap space in '23 as needed.

[RC_Drunkford]

Decent take, but I think after 5 seasons, a guy drafted at #19 isn’t going to show any shocking improvements. YMMV.


you mean like Murray, who got drafted at #29 and is now in year 6 still improving? :lol WTF has draft position to do with improvements? Also players usually improve on the defensive side of the floor when they come over and get coached by Pop. A lot of them also get a spike in efficiency.

[RC_Drunkford]

ATL is struggling to make the play in with both Collins AND Trae, who is better than anyone on our roster. How is Collins supposed to elevate this group, none of whom is 70% as talented as Trae?

Dumb take, yourself.


that's such a weak argument. I just said it's about style of play. Besides that Collins is clearly unhappy in Atlanta. Maybe that plays a part? Why were they in the ECF with him last year then? How can a team go from being in the ECF to being a lottery team in one year? I'd like to hear your take on that

That's like saying we shouldn't get AD, because he's fighting to get the Lakers into the play-in and he got LeBron on his team. LeBron is better than anybody on our team. How would AD help the Spurs? :lmao

[NASpurs]

Dang, exstatic is like the community toilet because everyone takes a shit on him here.

[Chinook]

Nah, Ex is good people. He fights the good fight. Even in this case, I don't really disagree with him. I think most of us would prefer to get a high pick this year before making a move to improve next year. I'm just willing to get a slightly worse pick if that was the only way to get Collins, and he thinks the pick being high is the most important thing.

[BackHome]

Dang, exstatic (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=20) is like the community toilet because everyone takes a shit on him here.

Lol Exstatic takes some getting used to I always wonder what he does for a living and I figured he is either a lawyer, accountant, or programmer- Cause my man doesn’t give a F on anyone’s feelings he is more facts and very little emotion. I don’t take it personal when he shits on any of my takes cause it’s not personal for him that is just who he is. Also he is a really good poster I always read his posts his knowledge on contracts, salary, trade rules is far superior then mine.

But just for the record Exstatic we did Tank for David & Timmy - Lol

[exstatic]

Lol Exstatic takes some getting used to I always wonder what he does for a living and I figured he is either a lawyer, accountant, or programmer- Cause my man doesn’t give a F on anyone’s feelings he is more facts and very little emotion. I don’t take it personal when he shits on any of my takes cause it’s not personal for him that is just who he is. Also he is a really good poster I always read his posts his knowledge on contracts, salary, trade rules is far superior then mine.

But just for the record Exstatic we did Tank for David & Timmy - Lol

Not bad for just 3 guesses…

[Leetonidas]

Lol there's a thread about the Hawks looking to trade Collins for a starter + a pick on RealGM and the Hawks homers in that thread all sound like Daryl Morey :lmao

[MannyIsGod]

I mean the Hawks are stupid if they trade Collins for White a Pick and filler IMO. Thats why I want that deal to happen.

[John B]

I mean the Hawks are stupid if they trade Collins for White a Pick and filler IMO. Thats why I want that deal to happen.

If that’s all it takes, take it. It’s a no brainer.

[CGD]

I mean the Hawks are stupid if they trade Collins for White a Pick and filler IMO. Thats why I want that deal to happen.

Yup. We can be generous a throw Lonnie in there :-)

I’d consider the worst of Spurs or CHI 2025 picks in such a deal. Or we can make it a three way deal sending Thad to PHX and routing the draft assets to ATL.

[tbdog]

Hawks should expect a similar deal that the magic got for vuc.

[SpurSpike]

Is Collins a total head case or something? When i saw that all they want is a 1st rounder and a starter i was pretty surprised. Spurs could do that trade easily.

[CGD]

Hawks should expect a similar deal that the magic got for vuc.

Maybe. That trade was 2 first round picks + young player + serviceable vet. But Derrick is way better than Wendell Holmes though.

[Leetonidas]

Is Collins a total head case or something? When i saw that all they want is a 1st rounder and a starter i was pretty surprised. Spurs could do that trade easily.

There were rumors last year that he and Trae had some kind of beef over his role in the offense. I'm guessing the playoffs helped alleviate some of that but now they are underperforming and probably pointing fingers in the locker room. Could be nothing but it's the only reason that really makes sense for them to be looking to trade him already.

[exstatic]

Is Collins a total head case or something? When i saw that all they want is a 1st rounder and a starter i was pretty surprised. Spurs could do that trade easily.

Headcase is probably too strong, but I know that he and Trae don’t get along. Most late first round picks don’t evolve into divas, but he seems to have a bit of that in his personality.

[lmbebo]

Zach Lowe mentioning that teams are calling the Spurs about Dejonte.

[KingKev]

Ideally, I would see the roster going forward as:

Murray / White / Primo all splitting minutes at the 1&2 (32mpg each)
Vassell / Johnson splitting minutes at the 3 (24mpg each)
Some kind of roster upgrade at PF
Poeltl / Landale splitting minutes at the 5 (30/18mpg respectively)

With the rest of the roster fighting for backup / Covid / injury / b2b minutes.

I have been 100% on #teamTank to get one of the top big men in the draft but, at our current position, we have a 23.4% chance for a top 3 pick (that still only goes up to 40% for the worst team in the league). If we have a chance to get Collins without losing one of the players listed above, then it accomplishes what I wanted in the draft anyway. If we have to give up White to do it, I would still pull the trigger because White is the oldest and most often injured of those listed, and would be replaced by the many options of SGs in the draft. If Zollins pans out, then we'd finally have a well-rounded team (albeit still young). Let them play 100% next season to gel together and evaluate... and use the massive cap space in '23 as needed.

That’s a losing team both now and in the future unless there is a franchise player in our immediate future and there is no way to get Collins without including White or multiple FRPs. Additionally, those are still great odds at a top 3 pick.

[SpurSpike]

Zach Lowe mentioning that teams are calling the Spurs about Dejonte.

Of course they are calling, DJ is having a great season. They wont get anywhere though. I cant think of any realistic trade the Spurs would take for their best young player and only building block.

They probably just calling because he was available last off season but things have changed since then and i think teams are regretting not pursuing him when they had a chance.

[Chinook]

Yeah, my guess is that teams are offering shitty picks for Murray and even shittier packages for White. I don't see a realistic trade package for Murray. I'd also not trade White away until the draft when the team can know what they're getting in return. But as part of a package for Sabonis, Collins or another semi-star front-court player, I could see it.

[Leetonidas]

Yeah, given his age contract and production Murray is by fear the most value asset we have. Spurs shouldn't trade him for anything less than a guaranteed top 3 pick (and maybe not even then) or a godfather offer of some kind

[talkspurs]

I dont understand why people are high on Z collins. yes he was the 10th pick but was never very good when he played and mobility has gone down. I dont blame the spurs for takeing a flier on him to see what he could become. I think we did overpay since I doubt to many teams were after him. His reb is barley better the KJ and his 3s are nowhere close. His Drtg is worse then KJ and he was on a better team. Looking at the 1920 season for Zach and 21-22 for KJ.

I do believe KJ should be more of a 3 so we would need to get a PF that could play there. I am not high on John collins but would not be against trading for him. His salary is not to bad and it is for awhile so he would be here long time. I think there are a few good overlooked players though that could do well. Boucher has been a player I have liked for awhile. his number are as good as John Collins when he has gotten the PT. He is a little old though so would not fit out timeline. Another one I have mentioned is Mo Wagner. He has done well but dont see orlando moveing him now that his brother is there. I also like the Idea of Signing Smith this off season. He does shoot the 3 but has not doen it well so far. shot ok in college so maybe that goes up when he gets consistent playing time.

Poeltl I think is on a good contract but if we get something good for him then I would not hesitate to trade him.

White I would also be willing to trade as I think he has some value but with injuries and age does not fit the team long term. We also have other that can take his spot. I think he will be a 6th man if he stays.

DJM. He is our best player by far and dont think he wants to leave. I hope he has a long career here. I have always been one of his biggest supporters and I do think he will be an AS sometime. I also would rank him ahead of Tre young as far as how good he is.

KJ I think is a keeper. We just have to get him to the SF position and then he will do better.

DV- keeper right now. He looks to be developing but dont see him being a star. (you also need the solid role players on your team)

Walker- I was always one of the lowest on him and would not resign him. if tradded great if not fine with it too as dont see him haveing much value.

Jones- his brother was not a 3 pt shooter coming in and now is ok at shooting 3s. this part of his game may grow. will probably never be great at it but with time should get better. I think his brother was slightly better to start with.

Primo- still way to early for me to say anything. may be good or may not. he is in the walker stage of ohh flash he is gonne be great. lets see how he plays out over the next couple of years befor we say to much.

As far as trade goes. DJ would probbaly be the only player I would not trade. cant even see much unrealistic trades that I would trade him for. White and Poeltl would be shopped but not trying to rush them out as they are good players on good contracts.

Why people complain duing games and then want the moon after. they know this team is going nowhere but just because of that does not mean you should give away your assets. Bryn was pretty much given away because he does not have much value. Jacob and white have value and should not be given away. thad walker I think can be had for less as long as no bad contracts are coming back.

My plan for the future.

DJ
Vassel/primo
KJ
4 during Draft or maybe smith
5 we would need to find. I think there are some ok 5s out there that could be had for cheap and if we get a better 4 it would help.

[Leetonidas]

fucking spammer asshole trying to fill up the first page with his spam threads :flipoff

[exstatic]

I dont understand why people are high on Z collins. yes he was the 10th pick but was never very good when he played and mobility has gone down. I dont blame the spurs for takeing a flier on him to see what he could become. I think we did overpay since I doubt to many teams were after him. His reb is barley better the KJ and his 3s are nowhere close. His Drtg is worse then KJ and he was on a better team. Looking at the 1920 season for Zach and 21-22 for KJ.

I do believe KJ should be more of a 3 so we would need to get a PF that could play there. I am not high on John collins but would not be against trading for him. His salary is not to bad and it is for awhile so he would be here long time. I think there are a few good overlooked players though that could do well. Boucher has been a player I have liked for awhile. his number are as good as John Collins when he has gotten the PT. He is a little old though so would not fit out timeline. Another one I have mentioned is Mo Wagner. He has done well but dont see orlando moveing him now that his brother is there. I also like the Idea of Signing Smith this off season. He does shoot the 3 but has not doen it well so far. shot ok in college so maybe that goes up when he gets consistent playing time.

Poeltl I think is on a good contract but if we get something good for him then I would not hesitate to trade him.

White I would also be willing to trade as I think he has some value but with injuries and age does not fit the team long term. We also have other that can take his spot. I think he will be a 6th man if he stays.

DJM. He is our best player by far and dont think he wants to leave. I hope he has a long career here. I have always been one of his biggest supporters and I do think he will be an AS sometime. I also would rank him ahead of Tre young as far as how good he is.

KJ I think is a keeper. We just have to get him to the SF position and then he will do better.

DV- keeper right now. He looks to be developing but dont see him being a star. (you also need the solid role players on your team)

Walker- I was always one of the lowest on him and would not resign him. if tradded great if not fine with it too as dont see him haveing much value.

Jones- his brother was not a 3 pt shooter coming in and now is ok at shooting 3s. this part of his game may grow. will probably never be great at it but with time should get better. I think his brother was slightly better to start with.

Primo- still way to early for me to say anything. may be good or may not. he is in the walker stage of ohh flash he is gonne be great. lets see how he plays out over the next couple of years befor we say to much.

As far as trade goes. DJ would probbaly be the only player I would not trade. cant even see much unrealistic trades that I would trade him for. White and Poeltl would be shopped but not trying to rush them out as they are good players on good contracts.

Why people complain duing games and then want the moon after. they know this team is going nowhere but just because of that does not mean you should give away your assets. Bryn was pretty much given away because he does not have much value. Jacob and white have value and should not be given away. thad walker I think can be had for less as long as no bad contracts are coming back.

My plan for the future.

DJ
Vassel/primo
KJ
4 during Draft or maybe smith
5 we would need to find. I think there are some ok 5s out there that could be had for cheap and if we get a better 4 it would help.

One of the issues with Smith in Phoenix is that he is legit JUST a 5. Since he can’t play alongside Ayton, he’s stuck at 3rd in their center rotation. He’ll have to play the 5 here, meaning Jak would have to go.

[Robz4000]

fucking spammer asshole trying to fill up the first page with his spam threads :flipoff
timvp Kori Ellis

[talkspurs]

One of the issues with Smith in Phoenix is that he is legit JUST a 5. Since he can’t play alongside Ayton, he’s stuck at 3rd in their center rotation. He’ll have to play the 5 here, meaning Jak would have to go.

Im kind of thinking he mght be that as well. In that case he would be the 5 and we would draft the 4. there are a few good ones out there this year at the top. Just have to hope we draft high enough.

[Leetonidas]

timvp Kori Ellis

:tu they cleaned that up quickly.

[Notorious H.O.P.]

I dont understand why people are high on Z collins. yes he was the 10th pick but was never very good when he played and mobility has gone down. I dont blame the spurs for takeing a flier on him to see what he could become. I think we did overpay since I doubt to many teams were after him. His reb is barley better the KJ and his 3s are nowhere close. His Drtg is worse then KJ and he was on a better team. Looking at the 1920 season for Zach and 21-22 for KJ.

I think people need to realize that, if Zollins hasn't made an All-Star team in his 100+ year career, he never will.

[tbdog]

Maybe. That trade was 2 first round picks + young player + serviceable vet. But Derrick is way better than Wendell Holmes though.

Yes, that serviceable vet was waived and was used for salary matching.

Those picks were protected.

Vuc was an allstar

Magic were rebuilding while Hawks are retooling. So they need players that fit around Tre now.

White and walker for Collins works salary wise but i am certain Hawks don't care for walker.

[poopbox]

Supposedly there's friction with him and Trae, who knows though

Funny that you say this cause if you watch ATL games their body language shows they don't like each other. I never noticed it until my wife mentioned it but just about every time one walks toward the other, the other other completely turns his back or turns sideways :rollin. ATL is underachieving and someone has to bear the blame. Collins is the odd man out.

[objective]

Lol there's a thread about the Hawks looking to trade Collins for a starter + a pick on RealGM and the Hawks homers in that thread all sound like Daryl Morey :lmao

Yeah that guy was out of his mind.

Complains that other teams fans are giant idiots because their ideas are insults to the value of Collins and how he's a big shot on hawksquak

Says Collins and assets can get KAT

Gets asked what the exact package would be, then he declares that Collins would not be traded for KAT, instead it would be Capela and 2 crappy firsts plus 1 fake first

Huh?

[baseline bum]

Simmons/Harris would be a ton of salary to move in one direction in a trade….

Will be hilarious if Harden forces his way out of Brooklyn and they're stuck taking that money back in a sign and trade to Philly.

[poopbox]

He's shooting over 40 percent from three and is a clear positive in any offensive stat out there. WTF can one watch to get the impression he's poor or limited on that end? The idea that PFs are supposed to be creators should go too. The Spurs are a team full of guys who'd rather defer instead of finish plays. Collins shouldn't get shit for taking advantage of his perimeter players. He'd absolutely thrive being the outlet for Murray, Lonnie, Devin and the other guys.

Chinook making multiple post in a thread that I agree with :wow

Let me look outside cause we are clearly in the end of days for this to be happening :wow

I also agree with your takes on Keldon...but it's pretty obvious that Pop thinks differently....

[cjw]

Harden will not be moved before the off-season. He has all the power in that situation. Collins and what might transpire around Harden/Simons are independent events.

Harden is a free agent this summer (has a player option). He absolutely could be moved.

[KingKev]

Harden is a free agent this summer (has a player option). He absolutely could be moved.

NO. He will not be moved. Both he and BK are inclined to compete for a title this year and both their best bets are in BK. He is going to opt in to that player option or sign a ridiculous extension and still dictate his own terms this offseason. BYE.

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

if the spurs traded white + picks for collins, would the hawks have the first father + son duo in nba history?

pretty cool tbh

[exstatic]

Will be hilarious if Harden forces his way out of Brooklyn and they're stuck taking that money back in a sign and trade to Philly.

That’s going to be tough for him to do, since no one in their right mind could see him signing with DET, ORL, or SAS. it’s not a credible threat.

[baseline bum]

That’s going to be tough for him to do, since no one in their right mind could see him signing with DET, ORL, or SAS. it’s not a credible threat.

No state tax and lots of strip clubs. Also Memphis looks like they'll have the money to make a run at him too, though they'd have to be willing to pay luxury tax when Morant is up for a payday in 2023.

[KingKev]

No state tax and lots of strip clubs. Also Memphis looks like they'll have the money to make a run at him too, though they'd have to be willing to pay luxury tax when Morant is up for a payday in 2023.

[exstatic]

No state tax and lots of strip clubs. Also Memphis looks like they'll have the money to make a run at him too, though they'd have to be willing to pay luxury tax when Morant is up for a payday in 2023.

He had all of that in Houston.

[Mr. Body]

To be fair, Harden would have been more than happy to stay in Houston had Fertitta not singlehandedly blown up their championship window.

[Robz4000]

That’s going to be tough for him to do, since no one in their right mind could see him signing with DET, ORL, or SAS. it’s not a credible threat.


No state tax and lots of strip clubs. Also Memphis looks like they'll have the money to make a run at him too, though they'd have to be willing to pay luxury tax when Morant is up for a payday in 2023.


He had all of that in Houston.

Honestly, where will Harden go? He's been in multiple different situations now and has burned bridges in each one.

[exstatic]

To be fair, Harden would have been more than happy to stay in Houston had Fertitta not singlehandedly blown up their championship window.

I’ll acknowledge that,but add that Orlando won’t be championship material with Harden, so there’s still not anywhere for him to credibly threaten to go.

[KingKev]

Honestly, where will Harden go? He's been in multiple different situations now and has burned bridges in each one.

Bridges that he can single handedly make others rebuild. I’m not a big Harden fan but if you have a 2-3 yr window he is as close to a sure thing as those hoes at KoD, Magic City, or any of the Houston strip clubs he was throwing money at.

[baseline bum]

I’ll acknowledge that,but add that Orlando won’t be championship material with Harden, so there’s still not anywhere for him to credibly threaten to go.

Memphis would though. And he's pissed at Kyrie Irving's bullshit.

[Robz4000]

Bridges that he can single handedly make others rebuild. I’m not a big Harden fan but if you have a 2-3 yr window he is as close to a sure thing as those hoes at KoD, Magic City, or any of the Houston strip clubs he was throwing money at.


Obviously any of those teams would pay for him, but the question is what situation will make Harden happy. He wasn't happy in OKC playing on a team that just made it to the Finals (albeit he was looking to get paid the most possible at that point), he wasn't happy in Houston getting all the stats while hitting up the club and getting paid, and he isn't happy in Brooklyn either getting paid/stats while playing in a large market for a contender.

[baseline bum]

To be fair, Harden would have been more than happy to stay in Houston had Fertitta not singlehandedly blown up their championship window.

Harden's the one who wanted CP3 out back when CP3's contract looked toxic and was only able to be traded for Westbrook's toxic contract, he's got no one to blame but himself for blowing up Houston's championship window.

[KingKev]

Obviously any of those teams would pay for him, but the question is what situation will make Harden happy. He wasn't happy in OKC playing on a team that just made it to the Finals (albeit he was looking to get paid the most possible at that point), he wasn't happy in Houston getting all the stats while hitting up the club and getting paid, and he isn't happy in Brooklyn either getting paid/stats while playing in a large market for a contender.

You ever been to BK? NYC living isn’t for everyone. He’s probs worth 250m can’t drive his own car anywhere. Kyrie as a teammate isn’t for anyone. He went to the Nets to win. Irving in his infinite BS doesn’t build much faith.

[Fusternino]

Kyrie's little stunt is one of the selfish acts I've seen in sports in terms of "on the field" conduct.

[r0drig0lac]

Collins would be a great combo with Keldon, but I wouldn't mind Grant, although attacking Ingram is my A+ scenario (Murray/Vassell/Ingram/Keldon/Jak).

[Robz4000]

Collins would be a great combo with Keldon, but I wouldn't mind Grant, although attacking Ingram is my A+ scenario (Murray/Vassell/Ingram/Keldon/Jak).


Ingram and Keldon at the forward spots would be awful tbh.

[MannyIsGod]

Harden's the one who wanted CP3 out back when CP3's contract looked toxic and was only able to be traded for Westbrook's toxic contract, he's got no one to blame but himself for blowing up Houston's championship window.

Yeah what fucking universe is it where Harden is the one who didn't screw up in Houston. The fucker couldn't beat the Spurs without Kawhi and then ran off everyone he played with.

[KingKev]

Yeah what fucking universe is it where Harden is the one who didn't screw up in Houston. The fucker couldn't beat the Spurs without Kawhi and then ran off everyone he played with.

He is still heavily coveted. Agree with it or not.

[Mr. Body]

You should really read up on what Fertitta did. He got rid of all the good role players and help there was on the team. Paul wasn't really the issue.

[baseline bum]

You should really read up on what Fertitta did. He got rid of all the good role players and help there was on the team. Paul wasn't really the issue.

Of course Paul wasn't the issue, Harden being a little pussy not wanting to play with Paul was the issue. They pissed away their contender status once they traded Paul for Westbrook.

[baseline bum]

Yeah what fucking universe is it where Harden is the one who didn't screw up in Houston. The fucker couldn't beat the Spurs without Kawhi and then ran off everyone he played with.

That Game 6 of 2017 has to the most embarrassing superstar performance I have ever seen. Completely caused me to lose any respect I ever had for Harden.

[Robz4000]

That Game 6 of 2017 has to the most embarrassing superstar performance I have ever seen. Completely caused me to lose any respect I ever had for Harden.


:lol coincidentally, one of my favorite playoff games of all time

[JeffDuncan]

Headcase is probably too strong, but I know that he and Trae don’t get along. Most late first round picks don’t evolve into divas, but he seems to have a bit of that in his personality.


A relevant stat, the top five NBA players in usage percentage, USG%, this season.

Embiid, USG% of 36.3, on a winning team.
Trae Young, 35.2, on a team with a losing record.
Giannis, 35.0, winning team.
Donovan Mitchell, 33.1, winning team.
Ja Morant, 32.6, winning team.

It doesn’t take a diva or a headcase to think that something in that list doesn’t look right. John Collins has a legit complaint. (Collins’ own USG% is 19.9.)

It’s fine for a player to dominate usage when the team is winning. But it isn’t good when the team is losing, and talented players stand around twiddling their thumbs while they watch the ballhog.

Also, of the top 25 players in USG% this season, only two have more turnovers at this time than Trae Young - James Harden and Russell Westbrook. Not only is Trae hogging the ball, he’s losing it a lot.

So it’s easy to see why John Collins would be displeased.

Closer to home, altho DJM has become very much the Spurs’ dominant player this season, his USG% is 26.3 which is probably not out of line. Some other Spurs:

Derrick, 20.8
Keldon, 20.0
McDermott, 18.2
Poeltl, 18.1

Pretty good team balance. It doesn’t add to exactly 100% because of lineup variations, of course.

[RC_Drunkford]

:lol coincidentally, one of my favorite playoff games of all time

that game was amazing and 40-year old Manu showed that Harden doesn’t even come close to the player Manu was

[Robz4000]

that game was amazing and 40-year old Manu showed that Harden doesn’t even come close to the player Manu was


That was Game 5 tbh (another all-time favorite). Game 6 was where Jonathan Simmons took a wet shit all over the entire Rockets organization.

[MannyIsGod]

You should really read up on what Fertitta did. He got rid of all the good role players and help there was on the team. Paul wasn't really the issue.

I know what he did. Fertita teamed up with Harden and made Morey trade Chris Paul when Morey didn't want to do that. Especially not for Westbrook who was already shit then. Maybe you should read up on that, or listen up on it as there are podcast episodes where it came out. Simmons has spoken on it and so has Lowe.

[MannyIsGod]

That trade was made because Tilman Fertitta wanted it made -- he thought Chris Paul's contract was the worst that he'd ever seen in business or sports -- and because James Harden wanted it made. James Harden, obviously there was a personality clash, this stuff has all been well documented and well reported. I still believe, and I wrote this last summer before things went down. I still believe that if necessary they could have managed that situation; I know a lot of people throughout the organization believe that.But once Westbrook became available, they saw an opportunity that Fertitta and Harden wanted to pounce on, and they pounced on that. Daryl Morey was the biggest Chris Paul backer in the organization. Nobody -- Daryl or anybody else -- has ever told me that he made that trade with objections, that he made that trade despite not fully believing in it. But I just can't help but think that it was a deal where basically, his two bosses -- Fertitta and Harden -- said 'hey, we want this deal made, get it done.' And he did what he had to do to get it done.
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/rockets-owner-tilman-fertitta-thought-chris-paul-had-the-worst-contract-hed-ever-seen-per-report/

[Dejounte]

If you think you're wrong about something, why would you say it?

Maybe because it's a sign of good character? Or maybe because it helps your credibility, especially for someone who's so extremely vocal about their opinion being fact.


I think you should admit that you don't have a good reason for your criticism besides apparent hurt feelings.

Your head is so far up your ass that you think everything is about you.


We have a thread where people thought the Spurs were a top-five team when healthy, and when the idea was bumped, the response was, "They will be next year."

This was ONE person. A person who's known to throw around extremely absurd ideas. John fucking B.


And yes, there are people who do criticize people talking about acquiring other players and who don't want to engage with any discussion about the direction of the team because they believe the team is going in the best direction possible due to trusting the people running the show.

This is yet another SINGLE person. This was Atl Spur, which everyone knows, is the resident cringe lord of homer takes.

So you take two people out of a thousand and make blanket statements about everyone else. And you're here thinking you're the victim of me "picking on you", yet you're the asshole who subscribes to childish "us against them (homers)" all because of two people, which coincidentally ruins any good argument your walls of texts usually has.

[Atl Spur]

Lol…. Primo is on his way, Zollins is recovering, walker is still a mental midget, and patfo are still smarter than most! No hometown, just facts….. I for one would never pander to you CLOWNS on this board. Keep waffling back & forth to appease each other but please keep my name out your mouth. That’s all

[RC_Drunkford]

That was Game 5 tbh (another all-time favorite). Game 6 was where Jonathan Simmons took a wet shit all over the entire Rockets organization.

true. Game 6 was Aldridge going nuclear as he always does in Houston with DJ putting up like 11/7/5 or something. That was a great game too

[KingKev]

Maybe because it's a sign of good character? Or maybe because it helps your credibility, especially for someone who's so extremely vocal about their opinion being fact.



Your head is so far up your ass that you think everything is about you.



This was ONE person. A person who's known to throw around extremely absurd ideas. John fucking B.



This is yet another SINGLE person. This was Atl Spur, which everyone knows, is the resident cringe lord of homer takes.

So you take two people out of a thousand and make blanket statements about everyone else. And you're here thinking you're the victim of me "picking on you", yet you're the asshole who subscribes to childish "us against them (homers)" all because of two people, which coincidentally ruins any good argument your walls of texts usually has.

haha Dejounte GOING INNNNNN!!!

[Chinook]

Maybe because it's a sign of good character? Or maybe because it helps your credibility, especially for someone who's so extremely vocal about their opinion being fact.

See, at this point, I think you know you don't really have an argument but somehow became tied into your perception of some message-board beef you have to where you can't concede any ground. You can't with any intellectual honestly claim that I've said my opinions are fact. My opinions are opinions, just like everyone else's. No one else is running around having to clarify that. They get to make their normal assertions without having someone bitching at them.

Moreover, you need to re-read what I wrote. If you think someone you're about to say is wrong, why would you say it anyway? It's not a sign of good character to say things you think could be wrong. I'd normally think it's just a misunderstanding and you assumed I meant something like "Why would you admit your wrong?" despite the fact that immediately following I say that I've been wrong and used to make threads specifically for talking about how wrong we (meaning me and anyone else who participated) were, but clearly you've gone so far off the rails that you likely got that obvious context and ignored it in an attempt to buoy your weak take.


Your head is so far up your ass that you think everything is about you.

This is pathetic. Yes, I think you specifically talking about me has something to do with me. Rather, I think it has to do with you being obsessed with trying to drum up whatever beef you think I have. I don't have beef with you. I have disagreements with you and criticisms for some things you say, but I will agree with you on points and give you props when I think they're due, just like with any poster. You're the one who just can't handle seeing me post.



This was ONE person. A person who's known to throw around extremely absurd ideas. John fucking B.

This is yet another SINGLE person. This was Atl Spur, which everyone knows, is the resident cringe lord of homer takes.

Neither one of these stances are held by just one person. Even if they were, though, why do you think it would be better if I were to call these guys out directly? I can debate their stances without attacking them as individuals or defining their contributions on this site to be only about those stances. I have no problem quoting them directly when I want to respond to something they said, but I'm not going to just drag them into a conversation they aren't in to attack them.


So you take two people out of a thousand and make blanket statements about everyone else.

Um, no? I don't actually think "everyone else" actually identifies with those stances. I think most of them understand where my point of view sits and agree and disagree with it to various measures. I was literally following up on people who were directly attacking Bod for his stance. Even you said you didn't agree with Bod's take, so why would you think I was talking about everyone else? Like just ugh, man.


And you're here thinking you're the victim of me "picking on you", yet you're the asshole who subscribes to childish "us against them (homers)" all because of two people, which coincidentally ruins any good argument your walls of texts usually has.

First, don't talk about what ruins arguments or not if you don't actually understand what fallacies are. Even if I were the asshole blah blah us versus them, I could still be a victim of you picking on me. The first doesn't remove the second. Also, I do enjoy the general culture of Spurstalk where we can be homers, edgelords and various things in-between and snipe back and forth without worrying about TOS. I will defend that culture against other cultures that want Spurs fans to all behave one way or which dramatically curtail the extent to which posters can criticize each other. My criticism of people's posts isn't actually me trying to kick them off the site. I don't know if you think you're doing that to me or something, but if so, you should definitely stop overrating your influence. I don't think you're "picking on me". I think you're constantly whining and may have delusions about how helpful that whining is to the overall health of the forum. I think you have a role here and make good contributions, which is why I haven't put you on ignore. But your beefing and self-styled policing has never been it.

I'm sure you'll make some lame dismissive retreat and come back next time with a new specific criticism you'll try to sell as the "main thing wrong with me" or whatever. Or you could just not bother and move on to post about regular stuff and leave the beef shit behind. I've butt heads with many posters I get along with pretty well now. I'm not going to hold a grudge if you want to just let bygones be bygones.

[John B]

A relevant stat, the top five NBA players in usage percentage, USG%, this season.

Embiid, USG% of 36.3, on a winning team.
Trae Young, 35.2, on a team with a losing record.
Giannis, 35.0, winning team.
Donovan Mitchell, 33.1, winning team.
Ja Morant, 32.6, winning team.

It doesn’t take a diva or a headcase to think that something in that list doesn’t look right. John Collins has a legit complaint. (Collins’ own USG% is 19.9.)

It’s fine for a player to dominate usage when the team is winning. But it isn’t good when the team is losing, and talented players stand around twiddling their thumbs while they watch the ballhog.

Also, of the top 25 players in USG% this season, only two have more turnovers at this time than Trae Young - James Harden and Russell Westbrook. Not only is Trae hogging the ball, he’s losing it a lot.

So it’s easy to see why John Collins would be displeased.

Closer to home, altho DJM has become very much the Spurs’ dominant player this season, his USG% is 26.3 which is probably not out of line. Some other Spurs:

Derrick, 20.8
Keldon, 20.0
McDermott, 18.2
Poeltl, 18.1

Pretty good team balance. It doesn’t add to exactly 100% because of lineup variations, of course.

I don’t really follow Atlanta, but does John Collins have post games or create for himself? Otherwise he’d need a Trae Young to facilitate.

[KingKev]

I don’t really follow Atlanta, but does John Collins have post games or create for himself? Otherwise he’d need a Trae Young to facilitate.

:bang

[John B]

:bang

Hey I don’t know :lol. I mean Aldridge played a lot of ISO and changed to more of a catch and shoot as he got older and needed to space out the lane. While Poeltl has been posting lately and driving.

[Atl Spur]

I think some of you forget post are opinion based…. The idea is to add perspective and objectivity. There are absolutes substantiated by facts but the majority post here for fun/entertainment! Dejounte….chill out pimp.

[RC_Drunkford]

I don’t really follow Atlanta, but does John Collins have post games or create for himself? Otherwise he’d need a Trae Young to facilitate.


he's not getting those isos. He's more of a roll man. Think DJ/Jakob 2-man game, but with Collins playing above the rim. Would be super efficient, especially cause Collins can also pop out and score off catch and shoots

[FutureMan]

I’m undecided on how the picks would be dispersed but what are y’all’s thoughts on a trade with this framework:

ATL: White & Prince
MIN: Young
SAS: Collins

I’m sure Atlanta would want at least one 1st though.

[tonight...you]

See, at this point, I think you know you don't really have an argument but somehow became tied into your perception of some message-board beef you have to where you can't concede any ground. You can't with any intellectual honestly claim that I've said my opinions are fact. My opinions are opinions, just like everyone else's. No one else is running around having to clarify that. They get to make their normal assertions without having someone bitching at them.

Moreover, you need to re-read what I wrote. If you think someone you're about to say is wrong, why would you say it anyway? It's not a sign of good character to say things you think could be wrong. I'd normally think it's just a misunderstanding and you assumed I meant something like "Why would you admit your wrong?" despite the fact that immediately following I say that I've been wrong and used to make threads specifically for talking about how wrong we (meaning me and anyone else who participated) were, but clearly you've gone so far off the rails that you likely got that obvious context and ignored it in an attempt to buoy your weak take.



This is pathetic. Yes, I think you specifically talking about me has something to do with me. Rather, I think it has to do with you being obsessed with trying to drum up whatever beef you think I have. I don't have beef with you. I have disagreements with you and criticisms for some things you say, but I will agree with you on points and give you props when I think they're due, just like with any poster. You're the one who just can't handle seeing me post.




Neither one of these stances are held by just one person. Even if they were, though, why do you think it would be better if I were to call these guys out directly? I can debate their stances without attacking them as individuals or defining their contributions on this site to be only about those stances. I have no problem quoting them directly when I want to respond to something they said, but I'm not going to just drag them into a conversation they aren't in to attack them.



Um, no? I don't actually think "everyone else" actually identifies with those stances. I think most of them understand where my point of view sits and agree and disagree with it to various measures. I was literally following up on people who were directly attacking Bod for his stance. Even you said you didn't agree with Bod's take, so why would you think I was talking about everyone else? Like just ugh, man.



First, don't talk about what ruins arguments or not if you don't actually understand what fallacies are. Even if I were the asshole blah blah us versus them, I could still be a victim of you picking on me. The first doesn't remove the second. Also, I do enjoy the general culture of Spurstalk where we can be homers, edgelords and various things in-between and snipe back and forth without worrying about TOS. I will defend that culture against other cultures that want Spurs fans to all behave one way or which dramatically curtail the extent to which posters can criticize each other. My criticism of people's posts isn't actually me trying to kick them off the site. I don't know if you think you're doing that to me or something, but if so, you should definitely stop overrating your influence. I don't think you're "picking on me". I think you're constantly whining and may have delusions about how helpful that whining is to the overall health of the forum. I think you have a role here and make good contributions, which is why I haven't put you on ignore. But your beefing and self-styled policing has never been it.

I'm sure you'll make some lame dismissive retreat and come back next time with a new specific criticism you'll try to sell as the "main thing wrong with me" or whatever. Or you could just not bother and move on to post about regular stuff and leave the beef shit behind. I've butt heads with many posters I get along with pretty well now. I'm not going to hold a grudge if you want to just let bygones be bygones.
All I'm going to say is Chinook is one of the best of the best here and I love reading his thoughts upon subjects and Dejounte is a main man, who I think the world of and these two guys are, of course, going to beef with one being the protag and the other being the antag.

I think that this is how it should be.
It's like watching nature.

Carry on gentlemen.
Carry on.

[RC_Drunkford]

fun fact: Collins got family in St. Croix and played for Wake Forest

[John B]

he's not getting those isos. He's more of a roll man. Think DJ/Jakob 2-man game, but with Collins playing above the rim. Would be super efficient, especially cause Collins can also pop out and score off catch and shoots

Exactly, so that usage rate was not really a good indicator. The ball needs to be with Trae to facilitate for him. If he’s an iso-kind-of-player or like Jokic who facilitates from post, then that usage rate would be higher. But Collins is not. And trading Derrick removes best pnr facilitator the Spurs have.

[Fusternino]

In a world where the Internet has gone mainstream and even become real life, I just that these small community forums continue to exist.

[absoloot66]

fun fact: Collins got family in St. Croix and played for Wake Forest

Really?!!? There's gotta be some Timmy connection, then, right?

[venitian navigator]

If Atlanta is serious about shopping Collins and his price asks for a starting player and a first, we could send the mcd, young and Chicago first... They just lost a shooter like Reddish so a veteran shooter like McDermott could be very valuable for them, probably more than White... If they want want a reserve point guard too, Tre Jones cold be added...

[Barfunk]

Smh, the media already trying to stir the pot to try and get Dejounte Murray out of San Antonio.. :bang

[BackHome]

Yeah fake news just by the Flaker news agencies are going to be all over him to come to Flakers

[spurraider21]

Chinook bodied dejounte tbh

[Barfunk]

Yeah fake news just by the Flaker news agencies are going to be all over him to come to Flakers

Yupp. Just damn haters.

[Mal]

If Spurs can trade White, not trade Murray and their 1st round pick and get John Collins in return ? Do it PATFO

[exstatic]

If Spurs can trade White, not trade Murray and their 1st round pick and get John Collins in return ? Do it PATFO

They’ll have to trade a 1st, maybe not this year’s.

[Trueblood]

They’ll have to trade a 1st, maybe not this year’s.

I think at this point we might be able to get him for White and Chicago's first from the Derozen S&T. I think his unhappiness has led to his value going down. Atl should probably prefer a late first over an early second. If for nothing else to save face with their fans.

[UnWantedTheory]

Chinook bodied dejounte tbh

[John B]

If Atlanta is serious about shopping Collins and his price asks for a starting player and a first, we could send the mcd, young and Chicago first... They just lost a shooter like Reddish so a veteran shooter like McDermott could be very valuable for them, probably more than White... If they want want a reserve point guard too, Tre Jones cold be added...

Yup I rather they trade McD if Atlanta would take, instead of White who is the best pnr for Collins. But if Atlanta insists on White, then just do it. Collins >>> White

[CGD]

I think at this point we might be able to get him for White and Chicago's first from the Derozen S&T. I think his unhappiness has led to his value going down. Atl should probably prefer a late first over an early second. If for nothing else to save face with their fans.

Spot on. This is not the first time there has been “unhappiness” in that relationship, casting doubt on their ability to fix it long term. If ATL insists on much more than that framework, just better for the parties to reevaluate again in the summer.

[KingKev]

Yup I rather they trade McD if Atlanta would take, instead of White who is the best pnr for Collins. But if Atlanta insists on White, then just do it. Collins >>> White

Can’t imagine there is any interest for McD. His contract isn’t great.

[CGD]

Yup I rather they trade McD if Atlanta would take, instead of White who is the best pnr for Collins. But if Atlanta insists on White, then just do it. Collins >>> White

I’m not as concerned about losing White’s pnr game, as we just drafted a player whose going to grow into that skill over next 2 years.

[LeBowen]

The key point for potential Collins trade is that Atlanta wants White. That can bring their asking price down.

McDermott is barely a positive asset and they've got their fair share of shooters that can't defend.


I think we all agree that White+Chicago pick with salary filler or maybe Lonnie would be a fair price for Collins.
Our first rounders shouldn't be on the table.

[buttsR4rebounding]

The ideal trade for SA is White and McD plus Chicago’s 1st for Collins + filler. That would take care of the 4 position and leave max space available. And a line up of Murray, Vassel, KJ, Collins and Poeltl could be pretty okay.

[ginobilized]

I’m not sold on Collins being a great fit here.
If the attitude issues are more in his side of the fence, a change of scenery won’t really help.
Sure, he’d be a big upgrade offensively, but, I just don’t think he’d fit with Pop and the culture here.

[Degoat]

Don’t want to jump the gun on our rebuild but it would be nice to get a co pilot for DJ. I prefer Sabonis over Collins personally but I don’t see the spurs making any deals except the obvious with Thad young

[SpurSpike]

Most reports iv seen say the hawks want a "valuable" 1st round pick. Kinda seems like they are wanting this year's pick... I wouldn't want to do that! Make them gamble and take our 2023 pick instead.

[JeffDuncan]

I don’t really follow Atlanta, but does John Collins have post games or create for himself? Otherwise he’d need a Trae Young to facilitate.


John Collins isn’t the type who will dribble his way to a shot, so the vast majority of his shots are assisted. Statistically, there’s an assist on about 3/4 of his makes.

By contrast, when DDR was with the Spurs only about 1/4 of his makes were assisted. So Collins could be seen as sort of the anti-DeRozan, a 1/4 iso player versus a 3/4 iso player. Collins is better in an offense where the ball moves.

[Dex]

Only 12 more days to go until we can stop pretending like the Spurs are going to make any sort of trade of value.

We'll probably trade the team refrigerator for a new washing machine or something like that.

[exstatic]

Only 12 more days to go until we can stop pretending like the Spurs are going to made any sort of trade of value.

We'll probably trade the team refrigerator for a new washing machine or something like that.

Yeah, we jettisoned all of the vets, so we’re just off the map now. Not business as usual.

[D-Robinson 50 fan]

Atlanta has been on a winning streak so I doubt they would trade Collins now. I also think they could get a better offer than we could provide if we don’t come off of draft picks.

dude could truly help the team if we trade the right players for him and have the right protections on the draft picks.

[exstatic]

Atlanta has been on a winning streak so I doubt they would trade Collins now. I also think they could get a better offer than we could provide if we don’t come off of draft picks.

dude could truly help the team if we trade the right players for him and have the right protections on the draft picks.

They were shopping him last deadline, but got crap offers, because he was a rental at the time. They resigned him to trade him. What is happening now is irrelevant. JoCo and Trae aren’t just suddenly going to get along after 3 years.

[The Truth #6]

Didn’t Dejounte (the basketball player) have beef with John Collins in a game last year? J Co has an edge, it seems. No idea if that’s good overall or not. I’m going to assume we are not trading for him, but hopefully the FO has better understanding of what he’s like.

[D-Robinson 50 fan]

They were shopping him last deadline, but got crap offers, because he was a rental at the time. They resigned him to trade him. What is happening now is irrelevant. JoCo and Trae aren’t just suddenly going to get along after 3 years.

ehhh….

we will see how irrelevant their win streak and possible chance of making the playoffs is.

If they do trade him to us I will not be mad unless they give up a ton of draft picks or DJ, Vassell, Primo, or Keldon.

we will see soon if Collins and Young’s relationship can’t be minded by winning games, I guess.

[KobesAchilles]

The one good thing about a Collins trade (which I don’t want) is that it puts everybody in their role and spot. It would also (it won’t in reality but it should) force KJ to the bench with Vasell starting in his stead. KJ is I believe more suited to be a high energy bench player that comes out and just shoots the ball and plays hard. I suppose we could start them both but I would rather start Lonnie at the 2 and see if he really doesn’t have anything to offer so we can give up on him going forward

[Leetonidas]

The one good thing about a Collins trade (which I don’t want) is that it puts everybody in their role and spot. It would also (it won’t in reality but it should) force KJ to the bench with Vasell starting in his stead. KJ is I believe more suited to be a high energy bench player that comes out and just shoots the ball and plays hard. I suppose we could start them both but I would rather start Lonnie at the 2 and see if he really doesn’t have anything to offer so we can give up on him going forward

With Keldon's improved shooting from distance I think you could play him at the 3. In this trade White is likely going out so Murray/Vassell/Johnson/Collins/Poeltl would be a pretty sensible starting lineup, imo

[talkspurs]

With Keldon's improved shooting from distance I think you could play him at the 3. In this trade White is likely going out so Murray/Vassell/Johnson/Collins/Poeltl would be a pretty sensible starting lineup, imo

Why do people keep talking about his improved shooting? He shot 38% on 3s in college. He shot good in the bubble. Last year was slightly off but not horrible.

[talkspurs]

The one good thing about a Collins trade (which I don’t want) is that it puts everybody in their role and spot. It would also (it won’t in reality but it should) force KJ to the bench with Vasell starting in his stead. KJ is I believe more suited to be a high energy bench player that comes out and just shoots the ball and plays hard. I suppose we could start them both but I would rather start Lonnie at the 2 and see if he really doesn’t have anything to offer so we can give up on him going forward

Lonnie started the year last year and did nothing. Why do people want to keep giving him chances?

[Chinook]

With Keldon's improved shooting from distance I think you could play him at the 3. In this trade White is likely going out so Murray/Vassell/Johnson/Collins/Poeltl would be a pretty sensible starting lineup, imo

Keldon's shooting isn't why he struggles to play the three. It's that his lack of agility on the perimeter defensively is worst than his lack of size in the paint. I definitely wouldn't be looking for reasons to keep him as a starter. I'd be looking for ways to maximize his effectiveness. In my opinion, that's by him going up against guys who don't have a physical advantage over him. In the event of a Collins trade, the team's top priority should be acquiring a strong scoring SG to put between Murray and Vassell. If they somehow tricked ATL into taking McDermott in the trade, the team could make a max slot available. This isn't a great free-agent window, but both Beal and Lavine could fit. Neither is uber likely to leave, but I'd be more surprised if Lavine left his situation. Theoretically Harden and Irving are also options. But hell no 10/10 times with Harden, and while Irving is on paper the best fit, he's a head case who also has injury issues even if he toned down some of his antics.

Murray, Jones
Beal, Primo
Vassell, KBD
Collins, Johnson
Poeltl, Landale

This is ignoring the top-10 pick in 2022 the Spurs would have and the two salary slots the team would have in the $5M to $6M salary range. They'd have enough to fill out a strong rotation, but I would still be surprised if they had the top-level talent to win a title. They'd fight for a top-three record in the West, though, if they can get the right ring-chasers or hit on their draft pick. They'd be in the ball park of Phoenix, Utah and Denver.

[TD 21]

It's just due diligence from other teams to see if they can pilfer solid, cost controlled young veterans from an organization thought to be in the early stages of a re-build and more than likely perceived to be an easy mark.

I can't see them getting an offer for any that they deem more valuable than the presence of those players though and my sense is Osman was either pre Hernangomez or would be for him because they're similar enough to be superfluous.

If the Spurs wanted Collins so badly, they had an opportunity to at least put the Hawks feet to the fire last off season. Somehow I don't see them giving up something like White and a loosely protected '23 1st, especially when they could be months away from finally getting their much needed four.



With Keldon's improved shooting from distance I think you could play him at the 3. In this trade White is likely going out so Murray/Vassell/Johnson/Collins/Poeltl would be a pretty sensible starting lineup, imo

That lineup has a severe lack of shot creation, ball handling and play making.

[8sy21vd]

I'd have to favor trading KJ instead of White in a potential Collins deals. Collins would be essentially replacing KJ as the starting 4. As TD mentions above, a KJ + Collins pairing seems to be an odd fit and something tells me KJ's game would suffer in a reserve role, whereas White could excel in that role. However, I am certainly not opposed to moving White in a potential Collins deal since it fills an area of great need, but think PATFO values White a lot more than people think or want to beleive. Versatility and play making is key here, but youth and the timetable of the team certainly favor keeping KJ in this potential trade.

Moreover, Walker wasn't extended in the off season and no team wants to trade for him for a reason. He's a scorer who doesn't score consistently. If his shooting sucks, he's a negative. Murray, White and Poetl can positively impact the game even when they aren't scoring. Hence, why Walker's WAR value is 0.1 and the other three are closer to 5. It seems to be an advanced stat that translates well to what your eyes tell you. McDermott measures as the worst Spur's rotational player at -1.1, which I agree with because he's one-dimensional on offense, can't create for others, and a complete turn style on defense. He's on the wrong side of 30 and would be happy to seem him gone.

It would be great to see the Spurs take a big swing in a trade though. Shake things up.

[KingKev]

I'd have to favor trading KJ instead of White in a potential Collins deals. Collins would be essentially replacing KJ as the starting 4. As TD mentions above, a KJ + Collins pairing seems to be an odd fit and something tells me KJ's game would suffer in a reserve role, whereas White could excel in that role. However, I am certainly not opposed to moving White in a potential Collins deal since it fills an area of great need, but think PATFO values White a lot more than people think or want to beleive. Versatility and play making is key here, but youth and the timetable of the team certainly favor keeping KJ in this potential trade.

Moreover, Walker wasn't extended in the off season and no team wants to trade for him for a reason. He's a scorer who doesn't score consistently. If his shooting sucks, he's a negative. Murray, White and Poetl can positively impact the game even when they aren't scoring. Hence, why Walker's WAR value is 0.1 and the other three are closer to 5. It seems to be an advanced stat that translates well to what your eyes tell you. McDermott measures as the worst Spur's rotational player at -1.1, which I agree with because he's one-dimensional on offense, can't create for others, and a complete turn style on defense. He's on the wrong side of 30 and would be happy to seem him gone.

It would be great to see the Spurs take a big swing in a trade though. Shake things up.

The rumoured interest is D White however.

[MannyIsGod]

I'd have to favor trading KJ instead of White in a potential Collins deals. Collins would be essentially replacing KJ as the starting 4. As TD mentions above, a KJ + Collins pairing seems to be an odd fit and something tells me KJ's game would suffer in a reserve role, whereas White could excel in that role. However, I am certainly not opposed to moving White in a potential Collins deal since it fills an area of great need, but think PATFO values White a lot more than people think or want to beleive. Versatility and play making is key here, but youth and the timetable of the team certainly favor keeping KJ in this potential trade.

Moreover, Walker wasn't extended in the off season and no team wants to trade for him for a reason. He's a scorer who doesn't score consistently. If his shooting sucks, he's a negative. Murray, White and Poetl can positively impact the game even when they aren't scoring. Hence, why Walker's WAR value is 0.1 and the other three are closer to 5. It seems to be an advanced stat that translates well to what your eyes tell you. McDermott measures as the worst Spur's rotational player at -1.1, which I agree with because he's one-dimensional on offense, can't create for others, and a complete turn style on defense. He's on the wrong side of 30 and would be happy to seem him gone.

It would be great to see the Spurs take a big swing in a trade though. Shake things up.

Atlanta doesn't want KJ, they want White. White makes a lot of sense for them. KJ does not.

[exstatic]

ehhh….

we will see how irrelevant their win streak and possible chance of making the playoffs is.

If they do trade him to us I will not be mad unless they give up a ton of draft picks or DJ, Vassell, Primo, or Keldon.

we will see soon if Collins and Young’s relationship can’t be minded by winning games, I guess.

Just making the playoffs would be a fail They were in the EC finals last year, and they don’t look to be headed in that direction. Anything less is a step backwards. They’ve been shopping him for a year. They still are. I don’t think their present situation has anything to do with keeping him. I don’t see them doing it. I think he’s talented and young enough, and is locked into a reasonable deal that someone will bite and make them a good offer.

Bottom line: after making it to the ECFs,Trae and JoCo are still having issues. This isn’t fixable.

Interesting thought: maybe DJ was being shopped to ATL last summer in a potential S&T for Collins and they didn’t think he was a good enough return at the time. They may think differently now. There were strong indications that he WAS shopped.

[Mr. Body]

Oh wow, Murray for Collins would be a huge mistake.

[exstatic]

Oh wow, Murray for Collins would be a huge mistake.

Why would they want White? I know everyone here wants to get rid of him, but the reasons you want to do that would be the same reasons ATL might not want him. As far as I’m concerned, the only untouchable is Primo.

[mo7888]

I'm not in favor of Murray for JoCo's but, I'll say this, if we do that we should be the one expecting more assets in the deal...

[tbdog]

Why would they want White? I know everyone here wants to get rid of him, but the reasons you want to do that would be the same reasons ATL might not want him. As far as I’m concerned, the only untouchable is Primo.

Vasell is also untouchable for me.

But to answer your first question. Every team would want Murray over White. But it will cost teams a lot more. The reason why the leak that Hawks are interested in White, is because he solves some of their issues right now.

White is a defensive point guard. He's shooting might be in a slump right now, and Atlanta may think it would improve with a better team around him. He can play on the ball so Tre can play off, like Curry. Furthermore, he can guard the best guard on the opposing team so Tre does not. He can play in the clutch because he will make the correct offensive and defensive decisions. He is on a reasonable lengthy contract and the Hawks want to cut some costs.

[exstatic]

Vasell is also untouchable for me.

But to answer your first question. Every team would want Murray over White. But it will cost teams a lot more. The reason why the leak that Hawks are interested in White, is because he solves some of their issues right now.

White is a defensive point guard. He's shooting might be in a slump right now, and Atlanta may think it would improve with a better team around him. He can play on the ball so Tre can play off, like Curry. Furthermore, he can guard the best guard on the opposing team so Tre does not. He can play in the clutch because he will make the correct offensive and defensive decisions. He is on a reasonable lengthy contract and the Hawks want to cut some costs.

Everything you just said about White applies to Murray.

[BatManu20]

If the Spurs moved this year’s pick for overrated John Collins, I’d be pretty damn pissed tbh. Have to think PATFO are smarter than that though. I hope.

And needless to say, moving Murray for Collins and his shitty attitude would be incredibly fucking stupid and a disaster unless Murray makes it abundantly clear he won’t be re-signing here in 2 years.

[cd98]

If the Spurs moved this year’s pick for overrated John Collins, I’d be pretty damn pissed tbh. Have to think PATFO are smarter than that though. I hope.

And needless to say, moving Murray for Collins and his shitty attitude would be incredibly fucking stupid and a disaster unless Murray makes it abundantly clear he won’t be re-signing here in 2 years.

Wouldn't they just trade the Chicago pick?

[Dejounte]

See, at this point, I think you know you don't really have an argument but somehow became tied into your perception of some message-board beef you have to where you can't concede any ground.

This isn't some pathetic "beef". This isn't about conceding, wins or losses, or whatever bullshit you're projecting towards me. It's me calling your dumbass out. It's that cut-and-dry. I can't believe that's what you wrote, and it shows how much you care about your image among the folks here that you're actively catering to and don't even know it.


You can't with any intellectual honestly claim that I've said my opinions are fact.

It's actually pretty easy. You're just being deliberately being ignorant about it. In fact, I'll do my best to call you out on the next one, if I catch it, that is.


despite the fact that immediately following I say that I've been wrong and used to make threads specifically for talking about how wrong we (meaning me and anyone else who participated) were, but clearly you've gone so far off the rails that you likely got that obvious context and ignored it in an attempt to buoy your weak take.

So you made threads however many years ago and you want a pat in the back for that. Congratulations. That has nothing to do with how frequently obnoxious you are with your takes. One would think they had learned a lesson from making those types of threads but I think you only made those so you could wear a badge just so you can brag about it later on like you're doing now.


This is pathetic. Yes, I think you specifically talking about me has something to do with me. Rather, I think it has to do with you being obsessed with trying to drum up whatever beef you think I have. I don't have beef with you. I have disagreements with you and criticisms for some things you say, but I will agree with you on points and give you props when I think they're due, just like with any poster. You're the one who just can't handle seeing me post.

Neither one of these stances are held by just one person. Even if they were, though, why do you think it would be better if I were to call these guys out directly? I can debate their stances without attacking them as individuals or defining their contributions on this site to be only about those stances. I have no problem quoting them directly when I want to respond to something they said, but I'm not going to just drag them into a conversation they aren't in to attack them.


Um, no? I don't actually think "everyone else" actually identifies with those stances. I think most of them understand where my point of view sits and agree and disagree with it to various measures. I was literally following up on people who were directly attacking Bod for his stance. Even you said you didn't agree with Bod's take, so why would you think I was talking about everyone else? Like just ugh, man.

This isn't rocket science, man. You're so convinced all my allegations towards you are empty when they're not. If this was truly "beef" as you call it, we would have more interactions like this but we don't. In this thread, you made the most scoff-worthy comment that it was too hard to ignore given your history. Apparently, that cut so deep that you're so affected by it now that you had to make all sorts of assumptions and projections towards me.


I don't know if you think you're doing that to me or something, but if so, you should definitely stop overrating your influence. I don't think you're "picking on me". I think you're constantly whining and may have delusions about how helpful that whining is to the overall health of the forum. I think you have a role here and make good contributions, which is why I haven't put you on ignore. But your beefing and self-styled policing has never been it.

You're making big leaps here that I don't know if you just enjoy making (incorrect) assumptions about people because of your (failed) career in psychology or what. I give you an inch, you go a mile.


I'm sure you'll make some lame dismissive retreat and come back next time with a new specific criticism you'll try to sell as the "main thing wrong with me" or whatever. Or you could just not bother and move on to post about regular stuff and leave the beef shit behind. I've butt heads with many posters I get along with pretty well now. I'm not going to hold a grudge if you want to just let bygones be bygones.

Is this a lame pre-emptive tactic to one-up me based on what you think my response will be? Again, why are you trying so hard to "win"? You want me to tell you why I don't bother replying back sometimes? It's because you're exhausting. I don't mind keeping this going if you do. It appears we have an audience, so why not? We all have an image to save by "winning" arguments like these...

[Dverde]

Seems like there are a lot of players like John Collins in the league. I don’t see the hype and no way with Dejonte for him.

[exstatic]

Seems like there are a lot of players like John Collins in the league. I don’t see the hype and no way with Dejonte for him.

6’9” guys who have legit put down 20/10 seasons? And shoot career 38% from 3? Those guys grown on trees?

The reality is that Josh is going to take the ball out of DJs hands next year, or the year after, anyways. It’s going to happen.

We also don’t know who’s the issue in ATL. JC puts down a 20/10 season, and suddenly his touches and shots drop two years in a row. A PG can freeze you out of the offense. Ask Sean. Isaiah Thomas did it to him when he was traded to Detroit.

[RC_Drunkford]

Seems like there are a lot of players like John Collins in the league. I don’t see the hype and no way with Dejonte for him.

mention 5 players of his caliber

[Chinook]

This isn't some pathetic "beef". This isn't about conceding, wins or losses, or whatever bullshit you're projecting towards me. It's me calling your dumbass out. It's that cut-and-dry. I can't believe that's what you wrote, and it shows how much you care about your image among the folks here that you're actively catering to and don't even know it.

This is sad. You aren't "calling me out" by whining in a corner about how I pretend statements I lead off with, "I think..." are fact. That you seem to keep appointing yourself the person to do so and always seem to have a negative way of interpreting anything I say is why I classify it as beef. It's weird that you bring up clout or whatever on this board.


It's actually pretty easy. You're just being deliberately being ignorant about it. In fact, I'll do my best to call you out on the next one, if I catch it, that is.

It's not even easy to do it with intellectual dishonesty. It certainly isn't easy to do it if you read sentences like a normal human and not a semantic junkie.


This isn't rocket science, man. You're so convinced all my allegations towards you are empty when they're not. If this was truly "beef" as you call it, we would have more interactions like this but we don't. In this thread, you made the most scoff-worthy comment that it was too hard to ignore given your history. Apparently, that cut so deep that you're so affected by it now that you had to make all sorts of assumptions and projections towards me.

Um... no. I don't have beef with you. I'm not going to read a post from you can find it too hard to ignore your scoff-worthy comments or whatever. I don't log into my computer thinking, "Let me see if I have to catch Dejounte in some bullshit again." I don't care about that. I don't keep tabs on what you say, I don't analyze random posts for truth value. I don't feel the need to defend the forum by "calling you out". I just move along in my life. We have these squabbles when you decide to stir up whatever drama you want about me. Then we'll go back and forth a bit before we disengage and I go back to my regular posting until you once again schlep in here "calling me out." You're just a poster to me, a decent one who does some good things for the forum but are still one of dozens I interact with. I, apparently, am not that kind of poster to you.


You're making big leaps here that I don't know if you just enjoy making (incorrect) assumptions about people because of your (failed) career in psychology or what. I give you an inch, you go a mile.

This is pretty cringy. It's a non-answer to what I said (mainly because you snipped out most of it), and the attempt to throw a silly ad homenim by assuming I had anything to do with psychology is just lame.


Is this a lame pre-emptive tactic to one-up me based on what you think my response will be? Again, why are you trying so hard to "win"? You want me to tell you why I don't bother replying back sometimes? It's because you're exhausting. I don't mind keeping this going if you do. It appears we have an audience, so why not? We all have an image to save by "winning" arguments like these..

If I'm trying to do anything, it's cut off this silly shit of you making passive-aggressive comments and then multiple posts with non-arguments for no reasons and no attempt to actually support your point outside of just repeating it. I don't care about winning. I don't want you to reply when it's just vapid, irrational attacks like this. I sure don't want a back-and-forth on this derailing a perfectly good thread. So if you want to keep talking about this, you're welcome to PM me or even pick a different thread. I won't engage you more about this topic here.

[Chinook]

mention 5 players of his caliber

Yeah, I don't think there are a lot of them. There are some, though. I would say Randle and Sabonis are also guys potentially on the market who to various degrees can fill that PF role. Ingram would be dicier given his lack of girth. Siakam is also an option. I might be missing a couple, but I think most of the other scoring forwards with PF size are on teams that don't want to trade them.

[Dverde]

mention 5 players of his caliber

Off top my head bigs that shoot threes who can score 16 points and get 7-8 boards. Is he a good defender? I’ve only seen him a handful of times, and wasn’t that impressed. He’s already on a big contract.
Pascal Siakim
Danilo Gallinari
Christian Wood
Markieff Morris
Tobias Harris

[Dverde]

To me it only makes sense to trade for Collins if you want to pair him with Murray and build around them both. Neither are good enough to propel the Spurs by themselves into title contenders.

[Degoat]

Off top my head bigs that shoot threes who can score 16 points and get 7-8 boards. Is he a good defender? I’ve only seen him a handful of times, and wasn’t that impressed. He’s already on a big contract.
Pascal Siakim
Danilo Gallinari
Christian Wood
Markieff Morris
Tobias Harris

honestly Id put Keldon in that group too lol maybe Jerami Grant? Jaren Jackson Jr?

[RC_Drunkford]

I don't see attitude as a problem when it comes to Collins. He comes from a military family, that should be right up Pop's alley. As I said he also played for Wake Forest and has family in St. Croix. He clearly admires Tim Duncan.

Basketball wise, his reputation to not being a good defender comes mainly from when the Hawks played him at the 5. His defense next to Capela was usually pretty good. Not saying he's a great defender, but he's decent and should likely improve by playing next to better defenders. If Pop can get some extra out of his players it's usually on defense. Besides that, one of the defensive issues on the Hawks is Capela not being that vocal when it comes to calling out switches and getting players into position. The Hawks main issues on defense are transition D and them trying to hide Trae Young as much as possible. Both things that won't be any issues here.

Also if you look at Collins' numbers, there are way too many games where he gets under 10 shots per game. He averaged 21.6 PPG on 14.8 shots 2 seasons ago. He's actually super efficient, having an eFG of 59% (which is the 2nd worst of his career I might add).

The main issues of this Spurs team are:

3-point attempts and %
Freethrow attempts and %
defensive rebounds
size
no additional shotblocking once Poeltl is away from the rim

Collins would fix pretty much all of this. His 3.7 FTAs would be the highest on the team. He gets 8-10 boards per game. He can protect the rim as a help defender. He can shoot from anywhere. He's quick and plays well in transition. He fits well into a motion offense, but you can iso him occassionally. He's 24 locked into a reasonable 5 year deal.

The only minus is that you'd have to trade a pick (probably the Chicago one) and White, who would basically be amazing at setting up Collins with oops. I still think this trade would be a win-win for both teams.

[RC_Drunkford]

Off top my head bigs that shoot threes who can score 16 points and get 7-8 boards. Is he a good defender? I’ve only seen him a handful of times, and wasn’t that impressed. He’s already on a big contract.
Pascal Siakim
Danilo Gallinari
Christian Wood
Markieff Morris
Tobias Harris

Markieff Morris averages 7.7 PPG. I assume you mean Marcus, who's over 30 and we had that story before.
Tobias Harris is on the worst contract in the NBA besides Westbrook and worse defensively
Gallinari is old as dirt
Siakam shoots 7% worse from 3 and earns 10 million more per year than Collins
Wood I agree with. Grant is another one I'd like. Probably even a better fit skill wise than Collins. That's about it

it's also not about guys getting 16/7. It's about them being able to somewhat protect the rim and 3-point shooting. Besides that Collins with a lilttle bit more usage is a 20/10, not a 16/7 guy.

[Dverde]

I guess the question to me is Collins for White is an easy yes, but The Hawks want more…is Collins worth giving up White AND Keldon, Devin, Primo, or the 1st round pick. Lonnie, Eubanks, Tre ain’t going to move the needle for the trade. Guessing the Spurs are saying no.