Draft projects to watch besides Wembanyama & Henderson

[heyheymymy]

If Spurs get pushed out of the top 4 by odd-beaters on lottery drawings B.Mill could be a nice consolation prize at #5 but I'm gonna be PISSED if some crap like WSH or POR pushes out a 14%er against dismal odds

ST servers will instantaneously melt into pools of liquid metal lol

[heyheymymy]

Not the best game to pimp Brandon Miller, right?

But yeah, he got game.

Yeah might have to tap the brakes on my enthusiasm but I can't shake the feeling that there is something here to look at maybe lol

[Mr. Body]

My evolving board now that I'm paying more attention:

1. Wembanyama
2. (Scoot Henderson)
3. Anthony Black
4. Brandon Miller

I'd draft Scoot at 2 but immediately find bidders.

Watching Baylor right now for Keyonte George.

[heyheymymy]

Next switched to this Duke game now

Getting a look at K. Flipowski and see what's going on

[duncan2150]

My evolving board now that I'm paying more attention:

1. Wembanyama
2. (Scoot Henderson)
3. Anthony Black
4. Brandon Miller

I'd draft Scoot at 2 but immediately find bidders.

Watching Baylor right now for Keyonte George.

I want your opinion on George after the game pls, he is higher in my board than black for the moment.

[Mr. Body]

I want your opinion on George after the game pls, he is higher in my board than black for the moment.

I like how active and dynamic he is. Someone mentioned Markelle Fultz as a comp in college and that seems fair. Except George is way, way worse in efficiency. Maybe it's shot selection (looks like it) but his shooting percentages are awful. Can those be fixed?

To me it speaks to how bad this draft actually is, within a certain range. I compared Black to Sochan, despite positional differences. But Sochan blew him away in advanced stats; not even close. Would I love having Black on the team? Or even George? Sure. At pick 3-5? Ehhhh...

[exstatic]

My evolving board now that I'm paying more attention:

1. Wembanyama
2. (Scoot Henderson)
3. Anthony Black
4. Brandon Miller

I'd draft Scoot at 2 but immediately find bidders.

Watching Baylor right now for Keyonte George.

Why would you wait until draft night with Scoot? If you draft him and teams know you don’t want him, his price goes down. There’s a month after the lottery to pit teams against each other for the right to draft him. Much different, and better selling dynamic.

[Mr. Body]

Why would you wait until draft night with Scoot? If you draft him and teams know you don’t want him, his price goes down. There’s a month after the lottery to pit teams against each other for the right to draft him. Much different, and better selling dynamic.

Yeah that's really what I meant.

[duncan2150]

I like how active and dynamic he is. Someone mentioned Markelle Fultz as a comp in college and that seems fair. Except George is way, way worse in efficiency. Maybe it's shot selection (looks like it) but his shooting percentages are awful. Can those be fixed?

To me it speaks to how bad this draft actually is, within a certain range. I compared Black to Sochan, despite positional differences. But Sochan blew him away in advanced stats; not even close. Would I love having Black on the team? Or even George? Sure. At pick 3-5? Ehhhh...

Imo his shooting form is good and quite pure. I think it's about shot selection for sure and confidence sometimes.

Yes i also start to think that after the top 2 maybe 3 with Miller, there's not a lot of sure things. Nick Smith Jr is coming back today and he's my third or fourth choice, we'll see.

[Mr. Body]

His ft% is something like .80%. It seems that suggests better or fixable shooting. I'm not a huge fan of his usage rate but that is personal bias.

[heyheymymy]

Everyone I'm scouting having kinda flat games today?

Flipowski and Keyonte rough starts imo and maybe B.Mill but I liked his stat line outside the 0-7 3PA (albeit still 1 shot below 50% overall) and the 3 TOs (albeit ratio'd against 3 AST) but yeah the eye test showed Miller kinda loitering all game opportunistic and not really a fulcrum or backbone to anything

[Ariel]

Yup. Watched the second half of Alabama and then Baylor, and I'm definitely underwhelmed.
Brandon Miller seems like a future nice piece, but not your franchise cornerstone... someone you feel good taking in the 6-10 range.
Keyonte George looks like an undersized chucker. Bottom of the lottery material (11 - 15)
If my board changes, it's because I keep pushing guys back.
Honestly, if anyone was second guessing Scoot at no. 2... he's a no brainer.

[Mr. Body]

I just feel like it's 1 nd 2 and then everyone else should start at the late lottery range. There's no one who really deserves those picks after #2.

[mo7888]

A lot of college today, with most players of interest on the court.

Watching Alabama vs. Auburn. The comps between Jabari and Brandon Miller are really spot on. I feel like Miller isn't as long, not as tall, but more fluid of an athlete. Smith could get shots over most anybody, Miller has to resort to dribble moves at times.

I didn't watch Auburn a ton last year, but don't remember Smith being an exceptional passer, although a willing one. My sense is that Miller is better driving the ball and has better court vision.

The age difference is still a sticking point. At least a little. Miller will be 21 around the early part of the season. He's older than Smith is.

My call is that Miller is the superior player. In my eyes, he seems like he's still filling into his talent profile and expanding his game while Smith tbh always felt fairly finished. One pause is that Miller is still slight and lacks strength and he's already 20 and a half y.o. He doesn't shy from contact, at least, but he's a very slight PF.

I like Miller better than Smith myself. I think he's got more 'want to' in his game. He'll be a very good pro.

You might wanna check Black out in the Arkansas game too if you can. That Mississippi State team has been atrocious on offense but there D is some of the best around. It'll be interesting to see how he fares against their physicality.

[Ariel]

I'm watching Michigan Indiana. Like Howard so far.

[Mr. Body]

I'm watching Michigan Indiana. Like Howard so far.

Hood-Schifino I like, but it feels too early for him. He could be a top 10 next year, perhaps.

With the 33 or Toronto SRP I hope for Trayce Jackson-Davis, Tubelis out of Arizona, or Zach Edey, although Edey might go in the 1st. A hard call -- he's not the most mobile but is really talented.

[Ariel]

Howard seems too passive, talented but disappears for stretches. Jackson-Davis is a bully in the paint, an explosive dunker, high energy guy... limited in today's NBA but a lot of fun to watch. Not sure about his fit, but could be worth a look in the second round. Would prefer another archetype though.

[mo7888]

Howard seems too passive, talented but disappears for stretches. Jackson-Davis is a bully in the paint, an explosive dunker, high energy guy... limited in today's NBA but a lot of fun to watch. Not sure about his fit, but could be worth a look in the second round. Would prefer another archetype though.

I like Howard pretty well, but I like Gradey Dick better if we're looking for that archetype..

[JPB]

I'm watching Michigan Indiana. Like Howard so far.

Those yellow jerseys on a yellow court are hard to watch on screen.

[Ariel]

Incredible block by Jackson-Davis. Seems to have springs on his shoes.

[Mr. Body]

Jackson-Davis, I swear I'll repeat myself, lol, if he's there in the 2nd I take him. He's a bench guy, but compares favorably to Brandon Clarke coming out of Gonzaga... Of course Clarke was younger, but TJD just knows the game, is physical, rangy, rebounds, blocks shots on the helpside very well. This team badly needs physical guys who can do those things.

[Ariel]

Hood-Schifino I like, but it feels too early for him. He could be a top 10 next year, perhaps.
I like him. If he declares for this draft, could be an interesting prospect later in the 1st round.

[scott]

How is Drew Timme looking this year? I remember watching him outshine Chet in the tourney last year. I know he is an older, limited-potential pro, but could be a good bench role player. Our pick would be too early in the 2nd, but maybe the TOR pick if they end up climbing into playoff range somehow.

[exstatic]

His ft% is something like .80%. It seems that suggests better or fixable shooting. I'm not a huge fan of his usage rate but that is personal bias.

Dean had some thoughts on good, low usage players with tools, using Wagner as an example of a guy not asked to score at Michigan, but perfectly capable of doing so.

[exstatic]

How is Drew Timme looking this year? I remember watching him outshine Chet in the tourney last year. I know he is an older, limited-potential pro, but could be a good bench role player. Our pick would be too early in the 2nd, but maybe the TOR pick if they end up climbing into playoff range somehow.

He’s 23. That’s how he is.

[Mr. Body]

I like him. If he declares for this draft, could be an interesting prospect later in the 1st round.

Yeah, late lottery in this draft into the 20s, but he'd be better served to play at IU another year. He has really great flashes but then a number of bad games. His tools are really nice - good pace, very strong sense of the game already.

[scott]

Also, very curious at the thoughts of Cam Whitmore by the gang here. The clips posted earlier in this thread remind me of a combination of Nephew and Rudy Gay, which I’m here for.

[mo7888]

Also, very curious at the thoughts of Cam Whitmore by the gang here. The clips posted earlier in this thread remind me of a combination of Nephew and Rudy Gay, which I’m here for.

I like him alot....I've got him #4 on my Board

[BacktoBasics]

Black 23/5/5 today. He’s my pick after 2.

[Mr. Body]

I haven't seen Whitmore play yet. His 0.7 apg is a bit frightening. Is it bad teammates? I also wonder if he's effective in part because he's beefy and strong against college opponents. Looking forward to seeing. Also need to check out Jarace Walker.

Anthony Black didn't even seem to be playing that well, but then his team wasn't that great today and against tough defenders. He's very much my #3 right now. I really see his capabilities as similar to Sochan if a completely different postion. He needs polish and work, but his feel for the game is completely different than most freshmen.

[mo7888]

Black 23/5/5 today. He’s my pick after 2.

He played better than I expected against a strong physical Defense...

[JPB]

I haven't seen Whitmore play yet. His 0.7 apg is a bit frightening. Is it bad teammates? I also wonder if he's effective in part because he's beefy and strong against college opponents. Looking forward to seeing. Also need to check out Jarace Walker.

Anthony Black didn't even seem to be playing that well, but then his team wasn't that great today and against tough defenders. He's very much my #3 right now. I really see his capabilities as similar to Sochan if a completely different postion. He needs polish and work, but his feel for the game is completely different than most freshmen.

That's the game when evaluating College players and disagreeing but really not sold on Black personnaly. He's listed at 190 lbs (probably much less) and I have big doubts he could dominate or play in the NBA like he does in College. I already said it but I don't find him a natural and I'm not seeing a productive NBA player there (I know others see the opposite), reason why I can see him dropping in the mock drafts...

Let's see.

[BackHome]

I like Black but if we draft him then that means things went very bad in the lottery pick for us.

[Mr. Body]

I like Black but if we draft him then that means things went very bad in the lottery pick for us.

Who do you think should go 3-6?

[BacktoBasics]

I like Black but if we draft him then that means things went very bad in the lottery pick for us.

Seems that’s the honest expectation. 1 or 2 is the dream. Best case scenario. 4-5 seem the most plausible. I would absolutely plan around that and hope for a miracle.

[rankingtear]

Jarace Walker is an obvious riser. Jett Howard has a high chance of translating if we can trade into another pick. Black would drop, he is a t-shirt skinny guy.

[exstatic]

That's the game when evaluating College players and disagreeing but really not sold on Black personnaly. He's listed at 190 lbs (probably much less) and I have big doubts he could dominate or play in the NBA like he does in College. I already said it but I don't find him a natural and I'm not seeing a productive NBA player there (I know others see the opposite), reason why I can see him dropping in the mock drafts...

Let's see.

He’s basically the same height and weight of a rookie Vassell, 195/200.

[JPB]

He’s basically the same height and weight of a rookie Vassell, 195/200.

Not sure Black is even really 190 tbh. I mean, my arm is bigger than his when he's flexing... which is my first criterion to dedice who we should draft or not :nope (except for Wemby ofc). And I'm pretty fit, right? He's just really not strong overall, with no indication he could really become strong enough.

Haircut is the second criterion. If he cleans it up, maybe we can talk...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FeMACiIXoAA2hI0?format=jpg&name=large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FeMACiIWQAEMQP4?format=jpg&name=large

More seriously, I'm really not confident drafting him with a top 4-5 pick... Too risky, to big of a gamble to me, I do'nt know, it does'nt seem to me he would be a game changer. When I look at him play, I don't find him very smooth or fluid (funny since others see the opposite)... I guess I'll wait the NBA combine, when comparing to other top prospects, to make a definitive judgment.

[rankingtear]

I'll buy a pick for Taylor Hendricks. Got a true jumper for a 6-9 shot blocker.

[AFBlue]

Black reminds me of Kyle Anderson. He's likely not that unathletic, but I'd describe his game as slow rather than smooth.

For my money, I'd still go George. His efficiency isn't where it needs to be, but the kid can score at any level and is developing as a playmaker.

[JPB]

Also, very curious at the thoughts of Cam Whitmore by the gang here. The clips posted earlier in this thread remind me of a combination of Nephew and Rudy Gay, which I’m here for.

I like Cam. I'm seeing a real NBA player there... Dynamic, explosive, NBA ready body, can shoot (not great lift tho), can drive with a nice touch and finishing and with nice instincts on defense (1.6 stl) that make me believe he could become a real two-player if working hard to improve on both sides (notably getting some more lift on his jumpshot)...

Sure assists are a concern but with Sochan on that team I'd def take him over Anthony Black for example. That being said, not sure I'd take him over Brandon Miller who has probably more potential as a complete player.

[ace3g]

https://twitter.com/DWolfsonKSTP/status/1624822292780838912

[Mr. Body]

I understand not buying in to Black at this point. I will say that his size isn't a concern of mine. He's a bit positionless, either a tall PG or a SF who sees the floor really well.

I haven't seen him really get knocked around a ton. More important, he is very scrappy both for loose balls and inside. He drives strongly into traffic and uses his body very well. Even if he doesn't add strength, and he will, I think he's perfectly fine in that regard. He's physical already.

One thing I love about him is what Sochan has. A total lack of memory. I mean in terms of giving up on plays or letting previous plays get to them. A lot of players can let bad play get to them. These two guys just keep going. Missed a shot? Fuck it, get it next time. Already out of mind. Turn the ball over? No smacking hands and sighing, just immediately race to get it back. I've also seen how they turn things up in the defensive clutch.

[exstatic]

Blacks profile is similar to Sochans, with some expected differences, for being down a position. Fewer rebounds, more assists. The biggest difference was his ordinary 71% FTs, compared to Sochans bad 59%.

Dean has him in a group of 5 players tied at #7, after Wemby, then Scoot.

[Ocotillo]

I understand not buying in to Black at this point. I will say that his size isn't a concern of mine. He's a bit positionless, either a tall PG or a SF who sees the floor really well.

I haven't seen him really get knocked around a ton. More important, he is very scrappy both for loose balls and inside. He drives strongly into traffic and uses his body very well. Even if he doesn't add strength, and he will, I think he's perfectly fine in that regard. He's physical already.

One thing I love about him is what Sochan has. A total lack of memory. I mean in terms of giving up on plays or letting previous plays get to them. A lot of players can let bad play get to them. These two guys just keep going. Missed a shot? Fuck it, get it next time. Already out of mind. Turn the ball over? No smacking hands and sighing, just immediately race to get it back. I've also seen how they turn things up in the defensive clutch.

*cough* Derrick White *cough*

[duncan2150]

Also, very curious at the thoughts of Cam Whitmore by the gang here. The clips posted earlier in this thread remind me of a combination of Nephew and Rudy Gay, which I’m here for.

Whitmore is really interesting : really strong, can shoot the 3, the ballhandling is really in progress... good help defender he's a 3/4 but more a 3 imo( Ron Artest type ?)

His ceilling is high imo.. i have him after the top 2 and Miller for the moment. Still needs some clips and games to classify Whitmore and co.

[rascal]

I like Black but if we draft him then that means things went very bad in the lottery pick for us.

I like Jalen Hood-Shifino better and you can get him around pick 16.

Spurs should swap the 2024 toronto pick and get Utah's 2023 Minnesota pick and get their pg after landing Wemby.

[Mr. Body]

I like Jalen Hood-Shifino better and you can get him around pick 16.

Spurs should swap the 2024 toronto pick and get Utah's 2023 Minnesota pick and get their pg after landing Wemby.

If JHS only goes at 16 then he'll stay in school.

[exstatic]

I like Jalen Hood-Shifino better and you can get him around pick 16.

Spurs should swap the 2024 toronto pick and get Utah's 2023 Minnesota pick and get their pg after landing Wemby.

Yeah, not down with swapping a 1-6 protected pick for a sure fire non lottery pick.

[Russ]

Unfortunately, the value in this draft may be well after the Spurs pick.

But if the Spurs somehow get the First Pick, nothing else matters!

[rascal]

Yeah, not down with swapping a 1-6 protected pick for a sure fire non lottery pick.

Toronto is not a lottery pick next year. The 16th pick this year will likely be better than next year's Toronto pick.

[JPB]

If JHS only goes at 16 then he'll stay in school.

Really not sure about that. If he's projected in that area, he's probably in, like most young guys nowadays. I know I would. A 16th pick gets about 9M of guaranted money + rest of career... A severe injury in college and he won't make a tenth of that in his entire life in any other job... If he believes in himself he'll just cash in big his next contracts, not that 9M isn't already big...

[Mr. Body]

Really not sure about that. If he's projected in that area, he's probably in, like most young guys nowadays. I know I would. A 16th pick gets about 9M of guaranted money + rest of career... A severe injury in college and he won't make a tenth of that in his entire life in any other job... If he believes in himself he'll just cash in big his next contracts, not that 9M isn't already big...

A player who won't even project as late lottery will absolutely stay in and get a top 10 next year, without a doubt. Your scenario never happens.

[rascal]

A player who won't even project as late lottery will absolutely stay in and get a top 10 next year, without a doubt. Your scenario never happens.

Absolutely?

Again stating your opinion as fact. Very few guys will return if they can get into the first round.

[tim_duncan_fan]

Edit: wrong thread

[Mr. Body]

Absolutely?

Again stating your opinion as fact. Very few guys will return if they can get into the first round.

Lol. Go find a time when a freshman slotted to go later than lottery decided to actually stay in the draft. Jesus, man, this isn't science fiction. You can't just make shit up. He gets NIL money anyway.

Only way he stays in the draft is if he blows up in the rest of the year or he somehow gets a lottery promise.

[scott]

Absolutely?

Again stating your opinion as fact. Very few guys will return if they can get into the first round.


Toronto is not a lottery pick next year. The 16th pick this year will likely be better than next year's Toronto pick.

LOL

[BackHome]

Yeah I think last year Terquavian Smith was pretty much going to to between 16 to 24 - I think his group was wanting him to go much higher and he decided to play another season. As of right now most mocks have him going about the same range or a little worse.

[rascal]

LOL

Not a fact, it's a prediction. And I'll bet you it comes true. They have had injuries this year.

[rascal]

Lol. Go find a time when a freshman slotted to go later than lottery decided to actually stay in the draft. Jesus, man, this isn't science fiction. You can't just make shit up. He gets NIL money anyway.

Only way he stays in the draft is if he blows up in the rest of the year or he somehow gets a lottery promise.

AJ Griffin Drafted 16
Trevor Keels 42
Jaylin Williams drafted 34
Max Christie
Bryce McGowans

There are many players

[JPB]

A player who won't even project as late lottery will absolutely stay in and get a top 10 next year, without a doubt. Your scenario never happens.

Then how are there more than 14 players staying in the draft every year?

I mean late first round why not, although I stiil believe most first round projected guys will enter the draft no matter what, but I have a hard time believeing most who project as around 16 will stay in college nowadays.

[Mr. Body]

Then how are there more than 14 players staying in the draft every year?


What kind of question is that?

[Mr. Body]

Keyonte George has been an 0-fer today if only on three shots. Seven boards, seven assists, three steals, three TOs. I like him, but am super wary of such inefficient players, especially combo guard types.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Lol. Go find a time when a freshman slotted to go later than lottery decided to actually stay in the draft. Jesus, man, this isn't science fiction. You can't just make shit up. He gets NIL money anyway.

Only way he stays in the draft is if he blows up in the rest of the year or he somehow gets a lottery promise.

Our own Branham and Wesley, among a million others.

[Mr. Body]

Our own Branham and Wesley, among a million others.

Branham was markex by many to go in the lottery. Wesley was tabbed there too, but really he just wanted to go into the league.

Hood-Schifino might stay in, but he's only scratching the surface and won't do himself any favors unless he really comes on. I don't see Branham or Wesley going top 10 if they stayed for another year. I do with JHS. That's the point.

[buttsR4rebounding]

Lottery means a lot more to the teams than the players. It means that they have a shot at a top 4 pick. The reality for the players (except for the status of being able to say I was a lottery pick) being drafted 14th or 30th makes little difference. The salary for the 14th pick last year was $3.9 million. The salary for the 20th pick was $2.9 million. The salary for the 30th pick was $2.2 million. The reduction in salaries is very gradual. I would say it is a rarity that a player that thinks he is going in the 1st round anywhere drops out of the draft.

[KingKev]

Lottery means a lot more to the teams than the players. It means that they have a shot at a top 4 pick. The reality for the players (except for the status of being able to say I was a lottery pick) being drafted 14th or 30th makes little difference. The salary for the 14th pick last year was $3.9 million. The salary for the 20th pick was $2.9 million. The salary for the 30th pick was $2.2 million. The reduction in salaries is very gradual. I would say it is a rarity that a player that thinks he is going in the 1st round anywhere drops out of the draft.

Second rounders are signing first round deals out the gate these days. 4 years guaranteed for Kennedy Chandler is a better deal than an underperforming late FRP as only first two years are guaranteed.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Second rounders are signing first round deals out the gate these days. 4 years guaranteed for Kennedy Chandler is a better deal than an underperforming late FRP as only first two years are guaranteed.

Not exactly true because Chandler is getting paid less per year ($1.2 mln) than the 30th pick ($2.2 mln). He has a team option at the end as well.

No 2nd rounder got a better deal than the 30th pick's, perhaps bar Nembhard.

[buttsR4rebounding]

Second rounders are signing first round deals out the gate these days. 4 years guaranteed for Kennedy Chandler is a better deal than an underperforming late FRP as only first two years are guaranteed.

So you are agreeing with me? Lottery is more important to teams than players.

[JPB]

Branham was markex by many to go in the lottery. Wesley was tabbed there too, but really he just wanted to go into the league.

Hood-Schifino might stay in, but he's only scratching the surface and won't do himself any favors unless he really comes on. I don't see Branham or Wesley going top 10 if they stayed for another year. I do with JHS. That's the point.

Nah, all the main mock drafts were giving Branhan and Wesley after the lottery and many Wesley after 20.

[JPB]

Then how are there more than 14 players staying in the draft every year?


What kind of question is that?

Don't remember what I wanted to say but didn't realize part of the post was missing. My bad.

[BackHome]

Nah, all the main mock drafts were giving Branhan and Wesley after the lottery and many Wesley after 20.


Your correct no draft had them in the lottery but a lot of drafts had them going before we picked them I was kinda shocked we were able to land both of them

[KingKev]

Not exactly true because Chandler is getting paid less per year ($1.2 mln) than the 30th pick ($2.2 mln). He has a team option at the end as well.

No 2nd rounder got a better deal than the 30th pick's, perhaps bar Nembhard.

Chandler has ~5mm GUARANTEED over 3yrs. 30th pick has ~4mm guaranteed over two years with team options. Seems like that second rounder got a pretty good deal.

[Mr. Body]

Nah, all the main mock drafts were giving Branhan and Wesley after the lottery and many Wesley after 20.

Branham was discussed in some areas as a top 10 guy potentially. And at least lottery. You're remembering wrong to satisfy your own narrative. Wesley was projected later but not after 20.

[BackHome]

There always going to be exceptions to the rule also teams boards are different some have late second with a first round grade. Aa the saying goes “Should have put a Ring on It” and nothing says you really want a player by giving them an extra mill. Lol.

[rascal]

Branham was discussed in some areas as a top 10 guy potentially. And at least lottery. You're remembering wrong to satisfy your own narrative. Wesley was projected later but not after 20.

I never saw anywhere he was a top 10 pick. AJ Griffin was discussed as a possible top 10 pick who fell.

[Mr. Body]

Here's Wesley projected at 16

https://www.si.com/nba/2022/06/23/nba-mock-draft-jabari-smith-chet-holmgren-paolo-banchero-final-projections

Here's Malaki projected at 15

https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/wizards/2022-nba-mock-draft-110-two-round-final-edition

I mean it goes on and on.

The mock drafts are beside the point. Theyre just paid yobbos who know barely more than we do. What matters is what the players were hearing. More to the point, what matters isn't end mock drafts or even mock drafts during the process but what they were hearing when they decided to stay or remain.

As far as Jaden Hood-Shifino, I follow Indian pretty closely as an alumus. He's only showing flashes here or there of what he can eventually be. Unlike Wesley, who was on a bad ND team and could either transfer and start over with a new college squad, or Branham, who blew up as the season went and was at some point getting top 10 nibbles, and who probably couldn't improve his stock too much, Hood-Schifino has a lot of room to grow.

I could see him declaring and staying in the draft, but if he goes at 20, he's leaving a lot of money on the table. Unless he really puts it together and IU makes a good run in the Tournament, I'm not sure he doesn't go back and becomes one of the best players in the NCAA and gets in the conversation for top 8 or better.

[Mr. Body]

Watched some college tonight.

Cam Whittmore looks fluid and a pretty good defender. Didn't impact things on offense too much. I'll need to watch more and didn't catch the whole game. Right now I don't really see a top 10 guy, but again, everyone supposedly in that range is pretty flawed.

I like Gradey Dick. He did drop 26 tonight. He appears to be a good athlete and pretty game.

Jett Howard I don't really get. He's passive on offense, doesn't rebound, doesn't play great defense.

Neither of last two players are projected anywhere close to our pick however.

[rascal]

We'll just have to wait and see but if JHS is projected to go in the top 17 or so I'm saying he is going in the draft.

[Mr. Body]

As basketball fans awaited the results of the NBA Draft Lottery on May 17th, Draft analyst Sam Vecenie of The Athletic went on to praise Branham. He said the talented freshman is getting plenty of looks in the top-10.

"I keep hearing extremely positive feedback about Branham. I’ve heard from sources that he is at least getting looks from teams in the top 10 largely because of his shot creation and shooting ability that developed this season. "

[mo7888]

Question for you guys that know the rules better than I do... Can Toronto trade this year's pick at the draft?

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Question for you guys that know the rules better than I do... Can Toronto trade this year's pick at the draft?

Yes because technically they’d be trading the rights to the selected player, not the pick itself. It’s a sort of a loophole.

[exstatic]

Question for you guys that know the rules better than I do... Can Toronto trade this year's pick at the draft?

I don’t think so,because they traded their pick to us last year. Now, they could make a pick during the draft , and trade the rights to the player,but they can’t trade the actual pick itself.

[mo7888]

Thanks guys.... I'm trying to look ahead to see which teams might be willing to move their picks from the late lottery to the mid first round. So far, Orlando and Toronto look like the most likely candidates, even if Toronto's is technically them picking the player and moving him into an agreed trade that won't happen until after the draft. I'm not sure that we have the players either team would want though...

[JPB]

Here's Wesley projected at 16

https://www.si.com/nba/2022/06/23/nba-mock-draft-jabari-smith-chet-holmgren-paolo-banchero-final-projections

Here's Malaki projected at 15

https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/wizards/2022-nba-mock-draft-110-two-round-final-edition

I mean it goes on and on.

The mock drafts are beside the point. Theyre just paid yobbos who know barely more than we do. What matters is what the players were hearing. More to the point, what matters isn't end mock drafts or even mock drafts during the process but what they were hearing when they decided to stay or remain.

As far as Jaden Hood-Shifino, I follow Indian pretty closely as an alumus. He's only showing flashes here or there of what he can eventually be. Unlike Wesley, who was on a bad ND team and could either transfer and start over with a new college squad, or Branham, who blew up as the season went and was at some point getting top 10 nibbles, and who probably couldn't improve his stock too much, Hood-Schifino has a lot of room to grow.

I could see him declaring and staying in the draft, but if he goes at 20, he's leaving a lot of money on the table. Unless he really puts it together and IU makes a good run in the Tournament, I'm not sure he doesn't go back and becomes one of the best players in the NCAA and gets in the conversation for top 8 or better.

Lol, that's right it goes on and on where nor Branham or Wesley were projected as "at least lottery", as you said yourself, in the main, serious mocks drafts, like the ones you even posted . (cos no, 15 and 16 are not lottery and 15 or 16 is exactly the pick you first mentioned to say a player would stay in college)...

And most importantly, none of these mock drafts had Branham or Wesley as top 10, as you stated twice, (unable to find one proof) even going as far as saying I was rewritting history to prove my point (don't you think I also checked the exact same mocks drafts, the two you posted are first two results on Google).

And then when you realized you were wrong and couldn't find elements proving your points, using and posting yourself mock drafts contradicting them... "The mock drafts are beside the point"..."What matters is what the players were hearing"... because you knew what players were hearing last year ofc...


Branham was discussed in some areas as a top 10 guy potentially. And at least lottery. You're remembering wrong to satisfy your own narrative. Wesley was projected later but not after 20.

Actually I was wrong, you didn't post the first two results from Google... You "forgot" the second one who has Wesley as... #22 (you saw it ofc).

https://nbadraftroom.com/p/2022-nba-mock-draft/

Who was rewritting history to satisfy his own narrative?

[Seventyniner]

I don’t think so,because they traded their pick to us last year. Now, they could make a pick during the draft , and trade the rights to the player,but they can’t trade the actual pick itself.

I think the Raptors actually can trade their 2023 first on draft night, even though they might end up having to send their 2024 first to the Spurs. My understanding is that the Stepien Rule rolls over on draft night because it only says you can't make a trade that could potentially leave you without a first round pick in two consecutive future drafts, while on draft night this year 2023 picks will no longer be in the future. I also believe that on draft night the 7-year window for trading draft picks also rolls forward, meaning a team could trade 2030 picks on the day of the 2023 draft.

But that's just semantics anyway. You're right that they can just agree to a trade and select the player the other team wants so that the pick never actually changes hands. I'm pretty sure this is how all draft day pick trades work anyway.

[Vince Carter's ankle]

I don’t think so,because they traded their pick to us last year. Now, they could make a pick during the draft , and trade the rights to the player,but they can’t trade the actual pick itself.
But "Celtics" traded their 2023 pick to "Pacers" for Brogdon.

[JPB]

Watching Tennessee-Alabama right now. Like Miller aggressiveness on defense. Very active and fast with his hands.

(damn auto-spelling)

[Mr. Body]

Watched some college last night. Can't shake the feeling that after 1 and 2 there's a cliff.

[exstatic]

Watched some college last night. Can't shake the feeling that after 1 and 2 there's a cliff.

Pretty much the consensus. I’ve heard analysis that it’s flat from 3-10 or even 3-15.

[Mr. Body]

Pretty much the consensus. I’ve heard analysis that it’s flat from 3-10 or even 3-15.

There are plenty, including people on this board, who claim it's an exceptional class, though. I just don't see it. Are there players I like? Sure. Are there players I'd put early in that range? Absolutely. But it feels more like a very down class in terms of overall talent past Wembanyama.

Edit: It feels like the Duncan year, with Wembanyama a worse Duncan and the rest sort of being Ron Mercer and Chauncey Billups.

[exstatic]

But "Celtics" traded their 2023 pick to "Pacers" for Brogdon.

Toronto has an FRP obligation for 2024. Boston didn’t have future obligations the next season when they traded for Brogdon.

Say the draft is at 7 PM, and someone calls at 5 wanting the TOR pick. Even though it’s only 2 hrs. in the future, it’s a future pick, and that would be two future pick obligations, 2 hours, and a year away to San Antonio.

On draft or before draft night, TOR trying to trade the 2023 PICK would be a no no, but they can make the pick and trade the rights.

[rjv]

Watched some college last night. Can't shake the feeling that after 1 and 2 there's a cliff.

it's hard to say with the college game. sometimes the games just get ugly. for instance, i watched the arkansas/a&m game last night and that zone the aggies threw out was effective; it's just not the most aesthetic basketball. that being said, there doesn't seem to be a stand out in the college ranks at the moment.

[exstatic]

There are plenty, including people on this board, who claim it's an exceptional class, though. I just don't see it. Are there players I like? Sure. Are there players I'd put early in that range? Absolutely. But it feels more like a very down class in terms of overall talent past Wembanyama.

Edit: It feels like the Duncan year, with Wembanyama a worse Duncan and the rest sort of being Ron Mercer and Chauncey Billups.

There’s some value. A team just needs to decide if it wants to pick a mystery box with a high bust chance (Thompson twins) or maybe a low usage toolsy player like Anthony Black. Miller looks good, but you worry about someone coming out of the UA program at this point. I’d categorize it as a pretty normal draft in this day and age. People are trying to spin it as five deep, but it’s really 2 1/2 deep, Wemby, Scoot, and maybe Miller if he checks out off the court.

I’m more interested in guys mocking towards the back half of the top 10. Nick Smith is another mystery box, so so shooting numbers in HS, almost no college visibility. I don’t see Jarace’s shooting numbers holding up. Low volume, and his FTs are 60%. Keyonte has some promise. His shoot will probably come around, but lots of TOs. Cam Whitmore has some tools, but 12.4 points on 26% usage? I like AnthonyBlack. He has some negatives, but stronger positives,and his profile looks a lot like Sochans last year.

[Mr. Body]

it's hard to say with the college game. sometimes the games just get ugly. for instance, i watched the arkansas/a&m game last night and that zone the aggies threw out was effective; it's just not the most aesthetic basketball. that being said, there doesn't seem to be a stand out in the college ranks at the moment.

Admittedly I wasn't paying much attention to college or the draft two years ago, but it's hard to shake the feeling that there were much more dominant college players than this year. Keegan Murray and Jaden Ivey were much more impressive than most of this crop. There was much more consistency from players like Griffen.

Of course a good number of players were really starting to show themselves from this point on, the grinder of late-conference games, conference tournaments, and the NCAA tournament really showing some players' talents, such as Sochan and Duren.

[Mr. Body]

There’s some value. A team just needs to decide if it wants to pick a mystery box with a high bust chance (Thompson twins) or maybe a low usage toolsy player like Anthony Black. Miller looks good, but you worry about someone coming out of the UA program at this point. I’d categorize it as a pretty normal draft in this day and age. People are trying to spin it as five deep, but it’s really 2 1/2 deep, Wemby, Scoot, and maybe Miller if he checks out off the court.

I’m more interested in guys mocking towards the back half of the top 10. Nick Smith is another mystery box, so so shooting numbers in HS, almost no college visibility. I don’t see Jarace’s shooting numbers holding up. Low volume, and his FTs are 60%. Keyonte has some promise. His shoot will probably come around, but lots of TOs. Cam Whitmore has some tools, but 12.4 points on 26% usage? I like AnthonyBlack. He has some negatives, but stronger positives,and his profile looks a lot like Sochans last year.

There are definitely players I like -- Black, George, Miller -- the question is whether I want to spend top 5 pick money on them. I guess there's a certain point where I'm just whining that we'll not get as good a player (or ready a player) as some draft classes, but in the end a high pick is just being first in line for a range of players. If that's the best player at #4 one year, but he'd be the best player at #10 another year, there's nothing to do about that.

[duncan2150]

There are plenty, including people on this board, who claim it's an exceptional class, though. I just don't see it. Are there players I like? Sure. Are there players I'd put early in that range? Absolutely. But it feels more like a very down class in terms of overall talent past Wembanyama.

Edit: It feels like the Duncan year, with Wembanyama a worse Duncan and the rest sort of being Ron Mercer and Chauncey Billups.

I don't see a lot of that Mr Body, imo people are really high on Wemby and then Scoot. These two make this draft good lol

After that i think we all agree there's no sure thing.

Imo it's really difficut to say this draft looks like the 97 one, like a lot of drafts you need 2-3 years.to evaluate the players. In this particular draft the injuries don't help ( Whitehead- Smith Jr) but to summarize you may right this draft could give two FP and then a bunch of really good role players....

[DesignatedT]

As far as Black vs Miller goes, Black just seems like he's good at everything. Not sure his ceiling offensively is as high as Miller but I'd lean Black right now between the two after watching quite a bit of both of them this year. He just seems like he impacts the game in more ways as compared to Miller.

[JPB]

There are plenty, including people on this board, who claim it's an exceptional class, though. I just don't see it. Are there players I like? Sure. Are there players I'd put early in that range? Absolutely. But it feels more like a very down class in terms of overall talent past Wembanyama.

Edit: It feels like the Duncan year, with Wembanyama a worse Duncan and the rest sort of being Ron Mercer and Chauncey Billups.

I'd agree with that. There's some intriguing prospects after #2 and you can never really know before you see them in the league, but I didn't see anything yet leading me to think this is that great of a draft. Maybe it will end up as nice one, but I'm not sure what could lead to think it's exceptional.

I like Brandon Miller for example, and I have him as my #3, but it's more about potential than conviction he's a future all star. Same for most guys after #2.

[mo7888]

There are plenty, including people on this board, who claim it's an exceptional class, though. I just don't see it. Are there players I like? Sure. Are there players I'd put early in that range? Absolutely. But it feels more like a very down class in terms of overall talent past Wembanyama.

Edit: It feels like the Duncan year, with Wembanyama a worse Duncan and the rest sort of being Ron Mercer and Chauncey Billups.

I'm definitely one of those.... I do see a 'cliff' after the first two, but it's simply a cliff because the first two are so high... so I've got it as a high plateau basically... I see a drop off from 1 to 2...a drop off after two and flat between 3-7 and a slight drop off after that.. 17 or 18 (depending on where I end up on Jalen Hood-Schifino) is where my next big drop off is..

Tier 1
1. Victor Wembanyama
Tier 2
2. Scoot Henderson
Tier 3
3. Nick Smith Jr
4. Cam Whitmore
5. Brandon Miller
6. Amen Thompson
7. Ausar Thompson
Tier 4
8. Gradey Dick
9. Keyonte George
10. Anthony Black
11. Jarace Walker
12. Gregory Jackson II
13. Kris Murray
Tier 5
14. Jett Howard
15. Brian Sensabaugh
16. Kyle Filipowski
17. Cason Wallace

[JPB]

As far as Black vs Miller goes, Black just seems like he's good at everything. Not sure his ceiling offensively is as high as Miller but I'd lean Black right now between the two after watching quite a bit of both of them this year. He just seems like he impacts the game in more ways as compared to Miller.

I know some people here are high on Black, and I can understand why, but most mock drafts have him as 8 to 15... Seems like he's been rising a bit but not sure he's the kind of guy spurs would get where they'll pick.

[Mr. Body]

As far as Black vs Miller goes, Black just seems like he's good at everything. Not sure his ceiling offensively is as high as Miller but I'd lean Black right now between the two after watching quite a bit of both of them this year. He just seems like he impacts the game in more ways as compared to Miller.

My fear is that Miller is the same archtype as Jabari Smith -- if his scoring doesn't translate, what does he do? But then I've seen some say Smith was a better prospect, but I don't agree. I think Miller is more fluid and much better ball handler. I don't think Miller can play small ball 5, however.

I definitely like Miller, and he seems like a good kid in interviews. I agree with you that he has fewer dimensions than Black, although his scoring can be elite.

Black is still raw, but he consistently makes plays that surprise me. He has great vision and seems to understand angles better than most his age. He doesn't connect those passes sometimes, yet, and he's not a great scorer. But he just shows a lot of promise in a lot of areas. He can be a disruptive defender and makes home run plays -- I've seen him do the Manu Ginobili thing where he steals inbound passes as he's guarding the inbound passer.

[exstatic]

I know some people here are high on Black, and I can understand why, but most mock drafts have him as 8 to 15... Seems like he's been rising a bit but not sure he's the kind of guy spurs would get where they'll pick.

It’s early. Tankathon had him in the teens, and now he’s 10. Dean has him in a group between 3-7. I don’t care a lot about mocks that don’t have a rating system, or actual analysis of player strengths and weaknesses. They just kind of feed of each other’s hype.

[JPB]

I'm definitely one of those.... I do see a 'cliff' after the first two, but it's simply a cliff because the first two are so high... so I've got it as a high plateau basically... I see a drop off from 1 to 2...a drop off after two and flat between 3-7 and a slight drop off after that.. 17 or 18 (depending on where I end up on Jalen Hood-Schifino) is where my next big drop off is..

Tier 1
1. Victor Wembanyama
Tier 2
2. Scoot Henderson
Tier 3
3. Nick Smith Jr
4. Cam Whitmore
5. Brandon Miller
6. Amen Thompson
7. Ausar Thompson
Tier 4
8. Gradey Dick
9. Keyonte George
10. Anthony Black
11. Jarace Walker
12. Gregory Jackson II
13. Kris Murray
Tier 5
14. Jett Howard
15. Brian Sensabaugh
16. Kyle Filipowski
17. Cason Wallace


I have my top 3 so far:

1.Wemby
2. Scoot (maybe trade down for #3 + whatever if you really have a problem with him)
3. Brandon Miller

Then after that a pack including Cam Whitmore, Amen Thompson and Nick Smith. (Jarace Walker is intriguing but not sure he's fitting with those spurs).

Then after that, (hopefully) spurs should have already picked, so that's not my problem anymore...

[JPB]

It’s early. Tankathon had him in the teens, and now he’s 10. Dean has him in a group between 3-7. I don’t care a lot about mocks that don’t have a rating system, or actual analysis of player strengths and weaknesses. They just kind of feed of each other’s hype.

You're not wrong, but I'm still seeing him mostly after #10 in most "educated" mock drafts (#13 for Bleachreport for example) and it's also not just about him, but the guys above that I do'nt see him all pass to sneak into the top 5. There seems to be some kind of ceiling for him in this draft. I could be wrong naturally.

[mo7888]

I have my top 3 so far:

1.Wemby
2. Scoot (maybe trade down for #3 + whatever if you really have a problem with him)
3. Brandon Miller

Then after that a pack including Cam Whitmore, Amen Thompson and Nick Smith. (Jarace Walker is intriguing but not sure he's fitting with those spurs).

Then after that, (hopefully) spurs should have already picked, so that's not my problem anymore...

I try to keep it in tiers for a couple of reasons...1) if we traded back would we be able to get a player in the same tier plus another asset? It kinda helps me evaluate that..and 2) if you're picking let's say 4 in this draft(which would be disappointing) ...you can sort of start considering need or roster building within that Tier... for instance, I've got Smith at #3 but if our need is more of a wing/sf then Whitmore or Miller might make more sense and there's not a huge difference in talent...

Anyway... that's just how I do it ..

[JPB]

I try to keep it in tiers for a couple of reasons...1) if we traded back would we be able to get a player in the same tier plus another asset? It kinda helps me evaluate that..and 2) if you're picking let's say 4 in this draft(which would be disappointing) ...you can sort of start considering need or roster building within that Tier... for instance, I've got Smith at #3 but if our need is more of a wing/sf then Whitmore or Miller might make more sense and there's not a huge difference in talent...

Anyway... that's just how I do it ..

No problem, I liked your classification. That was just a (sarcastic) way for me to say I'm too lazy, and probably uninformed to make a complete list like yours.

[Ariel]

Nah, all the main mock drafts were giving Branhan and Wesley after the lottery and many Wesley after 20.
Lots of mocks from respectable sites had Branham in the late lottery or a few picks after, say in the 12-18 range:
11) https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2956721-2022-nba-mock-draft-2-round-predictions-and-latest-buzz
12) https://sports.yahoo.com/final-2022-nba-mock-draft-projections-for-all-58-picks-ahead-of-thursdays-draft-130018345.html
14) https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nba/news/nba-mock-draft-2022-updated-rumors-trades-order/qhyqqaojxxgctz67vt6wwlrv
https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2022/6/15/23166148/nba-mock-draft-2022-updated-projection-after-withdrawal-deadline-best-pick-most-likely
https://ftw.usatoday.com/lists/nba-mock-draft-2022-rumors-chet-holmgren-jabari-smith
15) https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/wizards/2022-nba-mock-draft-110-two-round-final-edition
16) https://www.si.com/nba/2022/06/20/nba-mock-draft-jabari-smith-chet-holmgren-paolo-banchero-latest-buzz-predictions
18) https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/insider/story/_/id/34121058/2022-nba-mock-draft-projecting-all-58-picks-based-latest-intel-scouting

Also note that, in all those mocks, Wesley was gone by 25, and in many he was below 20. Point being, both guys were projected to go higher than they went.

[Ariel]

So far (besides the obvious top 2) I'd probably go Miller (mainly because his strengths are most valuable in today's NBA), but I don't see him as a franchise caliber guy or what you'd expect as the bright light at the end of this horrific tunnel. If we don't land a top 2 pick, I'd seriously consider trading back (say with Orlando), maybe you can still get Miller, plus someone else out of the Cam Whitmore / Anthony Black / Gradey Dick bunch. Two of those might provide more value than one not named Wembanyama or Henderson.
Also if we land a late lottery pick, someone I'm intrigued by out of potential is Dariq Whitehead. He's super young (18) and athletic, and shoots close to 40% from 3 and 90% from the line, and he's been held back by injuries and struggled somewhat to start the season. But he's probably one of the higher upside picks below 10, and if he's just having a stroke of bad luck (as opposed to being physically fragile) in a few years he might be what we're looking for.

[exstatic]

So far (besides the obvious top 2) I'd probably go Miller (mainly because his strengths are most valuable in today's NBA), but I don't see him as a franchise caliber guy or what you'd expect as the bright light at the end of this horrific tunnel. If we don't land a top 2 pick, I'd seriously consider trading back (say with Orlando), maybe you can still get Miller, plus someone else out of the Cam Whitmore / Anthony Black / Gradey Dick bunch. Two of those might provide more value than one not named Wembanyama or Henderson.
Also if we land a late lottery pick, someone I'm intrigued by out of potential is Dariq Whitehead. He's super young (18) and athletic, and shoots close to 40% from 3 and 90% from the line, and he's been held back by injuries and struggled somewhat to start the season. But he's probably one of the higher upside picks below 10, and if he's just having a stroke of bad luck (as opposed to being physically fragile) in a few years he might be what we're looking for.

I wouldn’t count on ORL having two picks. CHI currently stands at 32% to jump into the top 4 and keep it this year. That’s more than double our chances at Wemby.

[Mr. Body]

Lots of mocks from respectable sites had Branham in the late lottery or a few picks after, say in the 12-18 range:
11) https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2956721-2022-nba-mock-draft-2-round-predictions-and-latest-buzz
12) https://sports.yahoo.com/final-2022-nba-mock-draft-projections-for-all-58-picks-ahead-of-thursdays-draft-130018345.html
14) https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nba/news/nba-mock-draft-2022-updated-rumors-trades-order/qhyqqaojxxgctz67vt6wwlrv
https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2022/6/15/23166148/nba-mock-draft-2022-updated-projection-after-withdrawal-deadline-best-pick-most-likely
https://ftw.usatoday.com/lists/nba-mock-draft-2022-rumors-chet-holmgren-jabari-smith
15) https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/wizards/2022-nba-mock-draft-110-two-round-final-edition
16) https://www.si.com/nba/2022/06/20/nba-mock-draft-jabari-smith-chet-holmgren-paolo-banchero-latest-buzz-predictions
18) https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/insider/story/_/id/34121058/2022-nba-mock-draft-projecting-all-58-picks-based-latest-intel-scouting

Also note that, in all those mocks, Wesley was gone by 25, and in many he was below 20. Point being, both guys were projected to go higher than they went.

Thanks for the research.

I honestly didn't pay much attention to either player, not thinking they were of positions of need; I also had Branham as a poor defender. Anyway, for whatever reason they both tumbled. Wesley's not as much of a surprise in retrospect. He's very raw and needs time. Also in retrospect, Branham was a miss for many teams. Johnny Davis is quietly a huge bust right now, but I'd also take Branham over guys like Agbaji or Dalen Terry.

[mo7888]

Thanks for the research.

I honestly didn't pay much attention to either player, not thinking they were of positions of need; I also had Branham as a poor defender. Anyway, for whatever reason they both tumbled. Wesley's not as much of a surprise in retrospect. He's very raw and needs time. Also in retrospect, Branham was a miss for many teams. Johnny Davis is quietly a huge bust right now, but I'd also take Branham over guys like Agbaji or Dalen Terry.

Davis was my biggest miss last year.... I thought he'd be more NBA ready than he was by a long shot...

[Mr. Body]

You're not wrong, but I'm still seeing him mostly after #10 in most "educated" mock drafts (#13 for Bleachreport for example) and it's also not just about him, but the guys above that I do'nt see him all pass to sneak into the top 5. There seems to be some kind of ceiling for him in this draft. I could be wrong naturally.

I don't think we'll see many mocks putting Black into the top 5. Brandon Miller seems to be solidifying as the #3 and I don't see a lot of movement for him.

The Thompson Twins are a bit of a wild card, and I think teams will value Jarace Walker and players like him.

But we're entering a pretty exciting time where players really show some mettle. Black's Arkansas team is playing kind of poorly overall, but I think should make the NCAAT. Kentucky may be out (Cason Wallace), South Carolina is a dead team walking (GG Jackson). I can see players like Gradey Dick rising with good play.

[Mr. Body]

Davis was my biggest miss last year.... I thought he'd be more NBA ready than he was by a long shot...

I really had him on my radar and he's been nothing. Apparently not even good in the G-League.

[mo7888]

I really had him on my radar and he's been nothing. Apparently not even good in the G-League.

Yup... I thought he'd at least be a plus defender and good mid range guy....

[JPB]

Lots of mocks from respectable sites had Branham in the late lottery or a few picks after, say in the 12-18 range:
11) https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2956721-2022-nba-mock-draft-2-round-predictions-and-latest-buzz
12) https://sports.yahoo.com/final-2022-nba-mock-draft-projections-for-all-58-picks-ahead-of-thursdays-draft-130018345.html
14) https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nba/news/nba-mock-draft-2022-updated-rumors-trades-order/qhyqqaojxxgctz67vt6wwlrv
https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2022/6/15/23166148/nba-mock-draft-2022-updated-projection-after-withdrawal-deadline-best-pick-most-likely
https://ftw.usatoday.com/lists/nba-mock-draft-2022-rumors-chet-holmgren-jabari-smith
15) https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/wizards/2022-nba-mock-draft-110-two-round-final-edition
16) https://www.si.com/nba/2022/06/20/nba-mock-draft-jabari-smith-chet-holmgren-paolo-banchero-latest-buzz-predictions
18) https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/insider/story/_/id/34121058/2022-nba-mock-draft-projecting-all-58-picks-based-latest-intel-scouting

Also note that, in all those mocks, Wesley was gone by 25, and in many he was below 20. Point being, both guys were projected to go higher than they went.

Thanks for those links, and let's not make it more than we should, but for the record, none of this mock drafts has Wesley or Branham as top 10, which was one of the point of the "argument" and most have them after the lottery, although two have them 11 and 14, which I was wrong about then...

The second point was none had Wesley past 20, wich several actually have, and what I was right about then..

Let's say it's 1-1 :)

[Ariel]

Thanks for those links, and let's not make it more than we should, but for the record, none of this mock drafts has Wesley or Branham as top 10, which was one of the point of the "argument" and most have them after the lottery, although two have them 11 and 14, which I was wrong about then...

The second point was none had Wesley past 20, wich several actually have, and what I was right about then..

Let's say it's 1-1 :)
I'm not keeping scores and the post wasn't aimed at calling you (or anyone) out, simply thought the argument warranted clarification, because I followed last draft closely and remember very well how the process went. All in all, I think the Spurs got 2 guys who not only were projected to go higher, but also it's hard to find better value even in hindsight. Maybe Kessler for Branham at 20, but 1) it was difficult to predict Kessler's impact right away, and 2) Branham is younger and still has a lot of room to grow. And I'll take them over many guys who went ahead of them. It's a discussion we can only settle a few years down the road (3 to 5, possibly), but I'm pretty confident so far.

[Ariel]

I really had him on my radar and he's been nothing. Apparently not even good in the G-League.
Yeah, me too. Him struggling with efficiency was predictable, but truth be told I didn't think it'd be THIS bad, and also I was expecting his effort on defense to keep him playable through his early efficiency struggles, which doesn't even seem to be the case. I had him in the late lottery, but so far he doesn't seem even look the part of a 1st rounder. Disappointing to say the least.

[Mr. Body]

Thanks for those links, and let's not make it more than we should, but for the record, none of this mock drafts has Wesley or Branham as top 10, which was one of the point of the "argument" and most have them after the lottery, although two have them 11 and 14, which I was wrong about then...

The second point was none had Wesley past 20, wich several actually have, and what I was right about then..

Let's say it's 1-1 :)

I already posted one link about how Branham was getting some top 10 interest. Final mocks are another thing, but he was in discussion there at one time.

[DPG21920]

How do people feel about Amen Thompson/Ben Simmons comp?

[offset formation]

It’s early. Tankathon had him in the teens, and now he’s 10. Dean has him in a group between 3-7. I don’t care a lot about mocks that don’t have a rating system, or actual analysis of player strengths and weaknesses. They just kind of feed of each other’s hype.

I only use my eyes and watch tape. Feel I have a pretty good jusge of talent. Only consult the scouting services for a second opinion.

This process has done me right in accurately projecting the best nba player available when the Spurs draft (as confirmed with actual play) in all but one of the last 6 or so
drafts. Missed on Haliburton, though Vassell is probably our second best player when healthy so not sure it was way off the mark. Bane has also played way above his draft pick from that class.

[BackHome]

How do people feel about Amen Thompson/Ben Simmons comp?

Drafting Amen is going to get a GM a big pay raise or fired and I really have no clue on where he falls. His shooting pretty much sucks but the kid is SO athletic and does have good court vision and decent handles. It is fair to compare him to Simmons the old Simmons not the new Simmons who is just a head case. If we still had Chip I could see us taking a chance on him because his potential is at a All Star level, but that word has gotten a lot of GM’s fired. So for now if we fall to 3 I think will take Miller.

[Mr. Body]

How do people feel about Amen Thompson/Ben Simmons comp?

OTE isn't a good place to develop. About seventeen percent of possessions in the NBA end in transition, meaning a made basket or otherwise. In OTE it's over thirty percent.

And they don't play great defense otherwise. That the twins' efficiency is so poor is alarming, esp considering they're twenty years old playing against many younger players.

That said, Ben Simmons was always a lazy player who read disinterested in competitive basketball. When at LSU he clearly and vocally hated it. When they stood a chance to make the Tournament despite a lackluster year, he shat the bed hardcore, for example against Alex Caruso's TAMU team. I wasn't surprised he busted.

From what I understand of the twins, they are competitive and work hard at least.

[DrSteffo]

After Wemby and Scoot it get's tricky. I have Miller at 3 and Amen at 4 right now. Then for the Spurs maybe George (but is he a PG?), Smith Jr (injury?), Whitmore (sinking?), Walker (rising I think), Ausar (difficult to evaluate but potential), Black (solid but potential?), Still early and 3-10 is open.

[Spursfanfromafar]

OTE isn't a good place to develop. About seventeen percent of possessions in the NBA end in transition, meaning a made basket or otherwise. In OTE it's over thirty percent.

And they don't play great defense otherwise. That the twins' efficiency is so poor is alarming, esp considering they're twenty years old playing against many younger players.

That said, Ben Simmons was always a lazy player who read disinterested in competitive basketball. When at LSU he clearly and vocally hated it. When they stood a chance to make the Tournament despite a lackluster year, he shat the bed hardcore, for example against Alex Caruso's TAMU team. I wasn't surprised he busted.

From what I understand of the twins, they are competitive and work hard at least.

What sets the twins apart is their amazing athleticism. Amen especially will get a lot of crowds going Amen after some of his team's possessions. He will get into the NBA as one of the most athletic players already. Plus he is shifty, has a fantastic passing range and makes very quick decisions. The con, of course is that he is a very very poor shooter. Would take a lot of work for him to get into even an average shooter. But there is precedent for that. Lonzo Ball, Ja Morant.. they weren't good shooters to begin with, either, but they worked on it and became much better. Amen promises so much on many abilities that a rebuilding team must take a chance at 3 / 4 in the draft lottery.

Ausar isnt as athletic, but is a better shooter and has good anticipation as well.

[Spursfanfromafar]

How do people feel about Amen Thompson/Ben Simmons comp?

I will go with an Amen/ Ja or Amen/ early Lonzo Ball comparison. Simmons hasn't ever been as athletic as Amen.

[XDT76]

Actually what do OTE players do? Unlike NCAA, they are supposedly professional players and do need to attend class, don't they even spend time to practise shooting?

[mo7888]

How do people feel about Amen Thompson/Ben Simmons comp?

I don't think they are really comparable. Simmons is much bigger and has some mental block where he's afraid to shoot. I don't see that with Amen... He's very talented athletically, and even though he doesn't have an outside shot yet, he's not afraid of shooting it like Simmons. Amen is a classic high-risk high reward player.

[Dejounte]

The Spurs are going to draft a player who knows how to play right away. Pop recently made a comment on Barlow that he was still learning basketball. The Spurs are likely to believe the Thompsons have not gone through proper “basketball school” given that they have the same background. The expectation from the Spurs will be that their highest pick in decades will be able to join the group and have an aura about them that commands respect, whether by their sheer talent or personality. There are only a handful guys like that in the lottery. For example, I don’t think Brandon gives that kind of vibe but I could be wrong.

[mo7888]

The Spurs are going to draft a player who knows how to play right away. Pop recently made a comment on Barlow that he was still learning basketball. The Spurs are likely to believe the Thompsons have not gone through proper “basketball school” given that they have the same background. The expectation from the Spurs will be that their highest pick in decades will be able to join the group and have an aura about them that commands respect, whether by their sheer talent or personality. There are only a handful guys like that in the lottery. For example, I don’t think Brandon gives that kind of vibe but I could be wrong.

Besides the top 2.... who else in the lottery do you see having that quality?

[Ocotillo]

Consensus on the board is that we can't take on too many young kids on the roster because development staff is finite and the development is diluted by having too many young players. Honest question, what precludes the Spurs from hiring more staff that is focused on that development?

[XDT76]

Consensus on the board is that we can't take on too many young kids on the roster because development staff is finite and the development is diluted by having too many young players. Honest question, what precludes the Spurs from hiring more staff that is focused on that development?

Unless we are throwing money at established trainers, new trainers also need time to learn and develop. Then we have the game time available even if we field all 5 youngsters there is only one ball. Then if everyone is not familiar with the play sets no one is there to direct them on court and everything goes into a mess. If we throw Bassey, Barlow, Sochan, Wesley and Branham onto the court at the start of the year everything is gonna be brutal. Even now if we do it probably one or 2 get learning moments if not none and everything would probably be chaotic with a couple of highlights thrown in here and there.

[The Truth #6]

The Austin Spurs seem to have some role in development but not sure of the inner workings of how that is shared.

[Russ]

My fear is that Miller is the same archtype as Jabari Smith -- if his scoring doesn't translate, what does he do? But then I've seen some say Smith was a better prospect, but I don't agree. I think Miller is more fluid and much better ball handler. I don't think Miller can play small ball 5, however.

Jabari Smith still may make it in the NBA.

Don't forget that Smith is 6 months younger than Miller even though Smith's already in the NBA.

Smith is 19 (through half an NBA season) and Miller is 20 (but still in college).

Put another way, Smith was a year and a half younger in college (and on draft day) than Miller. Smith was 18 at Auburn, Miller is 20 at Alabama. That's a big gap in players that young. (Despite the age difference, Smith is 6'11", Miller is 6'9.")

Smith is averaging 12 and 7 in the NBA as a teenager. His 2 point percentage is still awful (39%) but he's hitting 80% from the line and getting one block per game.

That said, hopefully the Spurs first pick will yield a guy better than either Smith or Miller.

[rascal]

Unless we are throwing money at established trainers, new trainers also need time to learn and develop. Then we have the game time available even if we field all 5 youngsters there is only one ball. Then if everyone is not familiar with the play sets no one is there to direct them on court and everything goes into a mess. If we throw Bassey, Barlow, Sochan, Wesley and Branham onto the court at the start of the year everything is gonna be brutal. Even now if we do it probably one or 2 get learning moments if not none and everything would probably be chaotic with a couple of highlights thrown in here and there.

On the job training is great for high lottery picks which the Spurs need now.

[mo7888]

Jabari Smith still may make it in the NBA.

Don't forget that Smith is 6 months younger than Miller even though Smith's already in the NBA.

Smith is 19 (through half an NBA season) and Miller is 20 (but still in college).

Put another way, Smith was a year and a half younger in college (and on draft day) than Miller. Smith was 18 at Auburn, Miller is 20 at Alabama. That's a big gap in players that young. (Despite the age difference, Smith is 6'11", Miller is 6'9.")

Smith is averaging 12 and 7 in the NBA as a teenager. His 2 point percentage is still awful (39%) but he's hitting 80% from the line and getting one block per game.

That said, hopefully the Spurs first pick will yield a guy better than either Smith or Miller.

Smith's biggest problem is the team he's on.... he's surrounded by guys with little to no discipline...that's not a recipe for a player to succeed... I had Paolo #1 last year but if Smith had gone 1st he wouldn't be this bad in Orlando and Paolo wouldn't be this good if he were in Houston .. it matters where you get drafted...

[Mr. Body]

Jabari Smith still may make it in the NBA.

Don't forget that Smith is 6 months younger than Miller even though Smith's already in the NBA.

Smith is 19 (through half an NBA season) and Miller is 20 (but still in college).

Put another way, Smith was a year and a half younger in college (and on draft day) than Miller. Smith was 18 at Auburn, Miller is 20 at Alabama. That's a big gap in players that young. (Despite the age difference, Smith is 6'11", Miller is 6'9.")

Smith is averaging 12 and 7 in the NBA as a teenager. His 2 point percentage is still awful (39%) but he's hitting 80% from the line and getting one block per game.

That said, hopefully the Spurs first pick will yield a guy better than either Smith or Miller.

I agree that Smith will probably be fine. My issue, as others have said, is that he's not on a good team for development. Imagine him on a team with structure that can bring him along. He would be effective getting kickouts and knocking them down.

My real issue is that he is more of a role player. He can't really activate his own shot and he's poor inside. I'm not sure whether Brandon Miller is in the same mold. I balk a bit at picking a role-player that high in the draft. Soon Houston will have tough decisions on who to pay and a #3 pick is on a pretty high scale.

[rascal]

Smith's biggest problem is the team he's on.... he's surrounded by guys with little to no discipline...that's not a recipe for a player to succeed... I had Paolo #1 last year but if Smith had gone 1st he wouldn't be this bad in Orlando and Paolo wouldn't be this good if he were in Houston .. it matters where you get drafted...

Everyone here is saying Sochan is playing great and Smith is bad but Sochan's stats are similar to Smith's.

Smith: Min-30 PTs- 12 FG% - 39 3 PT% - 30 R - 7 A - 1.2 S - .5 B - 1
Sochan: Min-26 PTs-10 FG% - 45 3 PT% - 26 R - 5 A - 2.5 S - .8 B - .5

[Mr. Body]

Consensus on the board is that we can't take on too many young kids on the roster because development staff is finite and the development is diluted by having too many young players. Honest question, what precludes the Spurs from hiring more staff that is focused on that development?

To me the issue isn't trainers and development staff, it's playing time. In my belief, this is where OTE and even G-League Ignite get things wrong. A player can certainly improve individual skills by working out, dribbling, shooting off screens, when in the gym. But what really matters are the frenetic, chaotic situations of gametime, and playing in hostile arenas, against players and coaches that gameplan against you. In OTE and Ignite, they don't play a single game that matters. Not a single possession matters. No one cares if you win or lose a game. That's so very different in the actual NBA - or, more to the point, college.

With too many rookies, it's hard to get them game time and, imo, you start cannibalizing their development on the court.

[exstatic]

To me the issue isn't trainers and development staff, it's playing time. In my belief, this is where OTE and even G-League Ignite get things wrong. A player can certainly improve individual skills by working out, dribbling, shooting off screens, when in the gym. But what really matters are the frenetic, chaotic situations of gametime, and playing in hostile arenas, against players and coaches that gameplan against you. In OTE and Ignite, they don't play a single game that matters. Not a single possession matters. No one cares if you win or lose a game. That's so very different in the actual NBA - or, more to the point, college.

With too many rookies, it's hard to get them game time and, imo, you start cannibalizing their development on the court.

I agree with most of this, except lumping the Ignite in with OTE. OTE plays a schedule of HS teams. The Ignite play in the gleague against grown men, 2ways, and assigned NBA roster players, a much better level of competition.

[mo7888]

Everyone here is saying Sochan is playing great and Smith is bad but Sochan's stats are similar to Smith's.

Smith: Min-30 PTs- 12 FG% - 39 3 PT% - 30 R - 7 A - 1.2 S - .5 B - 1
Sochan: Min-26 PTs-10 FG% - 45 3 PT% - 26 R - 5 A - 2.5 S - .8 B - .5

I don't think Smith having similar offensive numbers to Sochan makes the case you're trying to make there...

[Ariel]

Everyone here is saying Sochan is playing great and Smith is bad but Sochan's stats are similar to Smith's.

Smith: Min-30 PTs- 12 FG% - 39 3 PT% - 30 R - 7 A - 1.2 S - .5 B - 1
Sochan: Min-26 PTs-10 FG% - 45 3 PT% - 26 R - 5 A - 2.5 S - .8 B - .5
https://i.ibb.co/rd7RVVX/dumb-and-dumber-theres-a-chance-gif.gif

... that Sochan is even a better shooter from 3 than Jabari???!!!

Wow... I wasn't sold on Sochan, but you just convinced me. Thanks rascal, your most compelling argument thus far.

[JPB]

Everyone here is saying Sochan is playing great and Smith is bad but Sochan's stats are similar to Smith's.

Smith: Min-30 PTs- 12 FG% - 39 3 PT% - 30 R - 7 A - 1.2 S - .5 B - 1
Sochan: Min-26 PTs-10 FG% - 45 3 PT% - 26 R - 5 A - 2.5 S - .8 B - .5

Their stats are actually pretty different. Sochan has double more ass, overall shoots 6% better, 4% worse at the 3 (we would need number of 3s/game) takes 2 rbs less but has 0.3 more steals... Different games.

[Ariel]

The Spurs are going to draft a player who knows how to play right away. Pop recently made a comment on Barlow that he was still learning basketball. The Spurs are likely to believe the Thompsons have not gone through proper “basketball school” given that they have the same background. The expectation from the Spurs will be that their highest pick in decades will be able to join the group and have an aura about them that commands respect, whether by their sheer talent or personality. There are only a handful guys like that in the lottery. For example, I don’t think Brandon gives that kind of vibe but I could be wrong.
Who fits that bill though? Every prospect projected in the top 20 is either a freshman, or in OTE. And I can't think of any prospect setting the NCAA on fire, or doing better than Brandon Miller. Not that he's a lock, but I fail to see how your argument applies to this current class, other than ruling out the Thompson twins (which I agree with).

[timvp]

I saw Amen Thompson in person recently and he's an A++ athlete. It's difficult to tell on video because he's going against 16 year olds most of the time but he legit might be more athletic than anyone in the NBA currently. I hate Amen's jumper, he's never been taught defense and his touch in the lane is poor ... but he's ungodly athletic, he's ~6-foot-7, he can dribble and he he has good court vision. Tbh, I was skeptical but now I think he goes No. 3 no questions asked. Once teams see his athleticism in person, I doubt anyone will pass on him after Wemby and Scoot.

[Mr. Body]

I agree with most of this, except lumping the Ignite in with OTE. OTE plays a schedule of HS teams. The Ignite play in the gleague against grown men, 2ways, and assigned NBA roster players, a much better level of competition.

My point here on Ignite is that they never play high pressure situations of any consequence. Learning how to play against adversity is really important and rookies who aren't ready don't get it in the NBA either. There's something, too, about superior coaching and gameplanning whether for or against you.

[Mr. Body]

I saw Amen Thompson in person recently and he's an A++ athlete. It's difficult to tell on video because he's going against 16 year olds most of the time but he legit might be more athletic than anyone in the NBA currently. I hate Amen's jumper, he's never been taught defense and his touch in the lane is poor ... but he's ungodly athletic, he's ~6-foot-7, he can dribble and he he has good court vision. Tbh, I was skeptical but now I think he goes No. 3 no questions asked. Once teams see his athleticism in person, I doubt anyone will pass on him after Wemby and Scoot.

Some team will jump on him then their GM will get killed because he can't do anything on the court.

[scott]

List of G League Ignite players to get NBA contracts:

2021

Jalen Green (#2 pick)
Jonathan Kuminga (#7 pick)
Isaiah Todd (#31 pick)
Daishen Nix (undrafted)

2022

Dyson Daniels (#8 pick)
MarJon Beauchamp (#24 pick)
Jaden Hardy (#37 pick)
Michael Foster Jr (undrafted)

How would folks rate their ability to put players in the league so far?

Green puts up stats but remains an undisciplined chucker.
Kuminga has shown flashes, but was apparently on the trade block but even the Spurs weren't interested.
Daniels is...?
Hardy had one big game.

[exstatic]

I saw Amen Thompson in person recently and he's an A++ athlete. It's difficult to tell on video because he's going against 16 year olds most of the time but he legit might be more athletic than anyone in the NBA currently. I hate Amen's jumper, he's never been taught defense and his touch in the lane is poor ... but he's ungodly athletic, he's ~6-foot-7, he can dribble and he he has good court vision. Tbh, I was skeptical but now I think he goes No. 3 no questions asked. Once teams see his athleticism in person, I doubt anyone will pass on him after Wemby and Scoot.

6’6” with a 6’9” wingspan, Keldon, minus the big body. He’ll have to play guard, and with those measurements, he’ll never create enough events to be elite defensively. Lonnie Walker was elite athletically, AND had a jumper, and still busted. It’s nice if you’re a basketball player and athletically gifted, but it’s a tragedy for some team if the inverse is true.

I wouldn’t draft either Thompson in the top 10, maybe not even in the lottery.

[mo7888]

I saw Amen Thompson in person recently and he's an A++ athlete. It's difficult to tell on video because he's going against 16 year olds most of the time but he legit might be more athletic than anyone in the NBA currently. I hate Amen's jumper, he's never been taught defense and his touch in the lane is poor ... but he's ungodly athletic, he's ~6-foot-7, he can dribble and he he has good court vision. Tbh, I was skeptical but now I think he goes No. 3 no questions asked. Once teams see his athleticism in person, I doubt anyone will pass on him after Wemby and Scoot.

What did you think about his brother?

[DPG21920]

I saw Amen Thompson in person recently and he's an A++ athlete. It's difficult to tell on video because he's going against 16 year olds most of the time but he legit might be more athletic than anyone in the NBA currently. I hate Amen's jumper, he's never been taught defense and his touch in the lane is poor ... but he's ungodly athletic, he's ~6-foot-7, he can dribble and he he has good court vision. Tbh, I was skeptical but now I think he goes No. 3 no questions asked. Once teams see his athleticism in person, I doubt anyone will pass on him after Wemby and Scoot.

Would you be happy with that if SA lands 3? Is his feel for the game and passing enough for him to be a legit Ben Simmons type PG?

Man, missing out on top 2 pick is going to make things dicey; not just because you miss out on what look like great pieces, but because the others are raw and wont help winning for a long while. If you land Wemby or Scoot, with the extra picks SA can use to trade and cap situation you can be fighting for legit PO team in 2-3 years.

If you miss out on top 2 pick this year and go Amen? You are likely 3-5 years out…..

[Ariel]

I remember reading a breakdown on Amen Thompson's percentages on jumpers and finishing at the rim, and they were ATROCIOUS. Like me kind of bad. Unfortunately I can't find them right now, if anyone can get a hold of them, I'd appreciate it. Point being, I don't care if you've got wings on your feet, if you're 20 and can't finish or shoot worth a lick against high schoolers, I'm not wasting a pick on you, much less no. 3.

[exstatic]

Would you be happy with that if SA lands 3? Is his feel for the game and passing enough for him to be a legit Ben Simmons type PG?

Man, missing out on top 2 pick is going to make things dicey; not just because you miss out on what look like great pieces, but because the others are raw and wont help winning for a long while. If you land Wemby + Scoot, with the extra picks SA can use to trade and cap situation you can be fighting for legit PO team in 2-3 years.

If you miss out on top 2 pick this year and go Amen? You are likely 3-5 years out…..

Or never.

[DPG21920]

I saw Amen Thompson in person recently and he's an A++ athlete. It's difficult to tell on video because he's going against 16 year olds most of the time but he legit might be more athletic than anyone in the NBA currently. I hate Amen's jumper, he's never been taught defense and his touch in the lane is poor ... but he's ungodly athletic, he's ~6-foot-7, he can dribble and he he has good court vision. Tbh, I was skeptical but now I think he goes No. 3 no questions asked. Once teams see his athleticism in person, I doubt anyone will pass on him after Wemby and Scoot.

He sounds like if Wiggins & Evan Turner had a baby lol

[DPG21920]

Or never.

Yup

[exstatic]

I remember reading a breakdown on Amen Thompson's percentages on jumpers and finishing at the rim, and they were ATROCIOUS. Like me kind of bad. Unfortunately I can't find them right now, if anyone can get a hold of them, I'd appreciate it. Point being, I don't care if you've got wings on your feet, if you're 20 and can't finish or shoot worth a lick against high schoolers, I'm not wasting a pick on you, much less no. 3.

I refuse to be fooled by deer anymore. If you can’t play basketball in your peer group at a high level, IDGAF how high you can jump. Cam Boozer is DESTROYING the same comp the Thompson’s are coasting through at FIFTEEN years old. I’d pick him second in this years draft if he were eligible, and his draft class and ATL’s struggles may make that 2026 swap the most valuable asset in our war chest.

[Mr. Body]

I'd like to see monthly splits for Sochan and Smith. Sochan really turned a corner at some point.

More than anything, Jeremy has shown a platform of skills that are really intriguing, even if not fully realized yet. The stats themselves are a bit less important in themselves.

[timvp]

Would you be happy with that if SA lands 3?The drop off from Scoot to Amen is so steep that I couldn't say I'd be happy. But if the Spurs get the third pick, the rest of the field is so meh that I wouldn't mind a homerun swing by taking Amen. I'm hoping someone else rises to become a better third pick but right now I don't see that person.


Is his feel for the game and passing enough for him to be a legit Ben Simmons type PG? It's possible. Amen's ceiling is superstar. Unfortunately, Amen's floor is like current broken Ben Simmons.

[timvp]

I remember reading a breakdown on Amen Thompson's percentages on jumpers and finishing at the rim, and they were ATROCIOUS. Like me kind of bad. Unfortunately I can't find them right now, if anyone can get a hold of them, I'd appreciate it. Point being, I don't care if you've got wings on your feet, if you're 20 and can't finish or shoot worth a lick against high schoolers, I'm not wasting a pick on you, much less no. 3.

Yeah, he finishes something like 40% of his shots at the basket in non-transition situations. Basically, the same issue that plagued Blake Wesley at Notre Dame. Rolling the dice on Wesley at 25 though is a lot easier to do than rolling dice at 3.

prayingdog.jpg @ someone like Brandon Miller fortifying the third pick.

[timvp]

What did you think about his brother?

Ausar is likely a top ten pick, too. He might actually have a higher floor than Amen because he plays defense and his shot isn't as broken. But Amen is more athletic and has natural court vision you can't teach.

In a disaster scenario where the Spurs end up with pick five or six, would I endorse picking Ausar? Eh, maybe. I want to say no but the college crop is so underwhelming this year. Someone like Keyonte George is near the head of the class and he can't create clean looks consistently at the college level, shoots ~38% from the floor and has an even turnover-to-assist ratio. If the pick is between George and Ausar, for example, it'd be difficult to be mad if the Spurs go with Ausar, tbh.

Thankfully there's still time for a college player or two to separate themselves. As it stands, this draft is great at 1 and 2 but falls off a damn cliff after that.

[The Truth #6]

IF Amen somehow was seen as a culture fit with the Spurs I could see them being intrigued by the raw talent. So he would need to be somewhat humble, have a strong work ethic, and have good family upbringing and support. I think that’s the overlooked but most important criteria for the Spurs to take him.

But I don’t follow him closely so I have no idea as to him as a person.

[TD 21]

As I've said all along, when the league screws them, if they're at 3 or 4, Amen Thompson (Iguodala?) or if they're at 5 or 6, Black (Daniels?) seem the most likely.

Either would be disastrous because anything lower than 2 would be for the team most in need of one of the top two.

[Excessive Egotist]

Tier 1: Wemby, Tier 2: Scoot, Tier 3: Amen Thompson and Brandon Miller, Tier 4: Pick 5-15, maybe 5-20. The players pick 5 and after aren't bad prospects so as much as they are just roughly the same quality of player. invariably, a future all star will emerge from the group, but it will be hard for any front office to predict who that player will be.

If Spurs have bad luck in lottery, they should consider trading down for additional assets.

[JPB]

I'd still take Brandon Miller at#3 for his potential and the impression I have that he's the kind of dedicated guy who will do what it takes to reach that potential. I don't know, he looks like a spur to me, seems humble and poised, which could be a good thing next to a "crazier" Sochan, Tim/Manu style.

[DPG21920]

The drop off from Scoot to Amen is so steep that I couldn't say I'd be happy. But if the Spurs get the third pick, the rest of the field is so meh that I wouldn't mind a homerun swing by taking Amen. I'm hoping someone else rises to become a better third pick but right now I don't see that person.

It's possible. Amen's ceiling is superstar. Unfortunately, Amen's floor is like current broken Ben Simmons.

I wouldn’t mind SA trading the pick then….I know that is next to impossible to do (trade a top 3 pick) but if its on the table wonder what it would take?

[BacktoBasics]

Miller has grown on me a little recently but I still like Black. Black has Sochan type hustle and intangibles, good court vision, nice flow in his game and his offensive has been improving all season long.

[Ariel]

Honestly, why do the Thompson twins gain much more attention than, say, Dariq Whitehead? For all of his struggles, he's about the same size, a very good athlete, already competing at a high level, can REALLY shoot (over 40% from 3 & 90% from the line). Sure, he's struggled with efficiency, he's been injured often... but, for my money, if you're going for upside he seems a much more sensible gamble at the late lottery, than any of the Thompson twins at top 5.

So I sold myself. I'm adding Dariq Whitehead to the trade down candidate bunch.

[mo7888]

I wouldn’t mind SA trading the pick then….I know that is next to impossible to do (trade a top 3 pick) but if its on the table wonder what it would take?

Probably two picks between 6 and 12...and that depends on 'if' the Chicago pick conveys to Orlando and 'if' they really like Amen or Smith Jr..

[mo7888]

Honestly, why do the Thompson twins gain much more attention than, say, Dariq Whitehead? For all of his struggles, he's about the same size, a very good athlete, already competing at a high level, can REALLY shoot (over 40% from 3 & 90% from the line). Sure, he's struggled with efficiency, he's been injured often... but, for my money, if you're going for upside he seems a much more sensible gamble at the late lottery, than any of the Thompson twins at top 5.

So I sold myself. I'm adding Dariq Whitehead to the trade down candidate bunch.

They're higher level athletes with no injury history... I will say that if Dariq Whitehead can stay healthy somebody is going to get a steal if he stays in the range he's in now in most mocks.

[DPG21920]

God this lottery is so freaking massive. Please land in the top 2. I don’t know that anyone would trade pick 2 and Scoot would they?

[mo7888]

God this lottery is so freaking massive. Please land in the top 2. I don’t know that anyone would trade pick 2 and Scoot would they?

No....nobody is trading 1 or 2..... those are gold..

[DPG21920]

No....nobody is trading 1 or 2..... those are gold..

We know for sure no one is trading Wemby…agree there. Just wondering if Scoot could be had…

Say CHA or DET - team with lead guards already, land 2. Would they trade Scoot for Pick 3, unprotected future 1st & Keldon?

[spurraider21]

IF Amen somehow was seen as a culture fit with the Spurs I could see them being intrigued by the raw talent. So he would need to be somewhat humble, have a strong work ethic, and have good family upbringing and support. I think that’s the overlooked but most important criteria for the Spurs to take him.

But I don’t follow him closely so I have no idea as to him as a person.
are we still really taking this kind of stuff seriously?

[mo7888]

We know for sure no one is trading Wemby…agree there. Just wondering if Scoot could be had…

Say CHA or DET - team with lead guards already, land 2. Would they trade Scoot for Pick 3, unprotected future 1st & Keldon?

I don't think so...they'd move one of their other guards first...

[spurraider21]

im guilty of it myself, but i feel like people are overthinking brandon miller. imo he probably goes #3 and no later than 4. just looks like one of those guys that can come in day 1 and average 15+ in his sleep. that alone with his size makes him a pretty high floor pick and its not like he doesnt have upside either

[DPG21920]

I don't think so...they'd move one of their other guards first...

I agree….just hoping. Lol or someone falling in love with Brandon Miller and talking themselves into him as time goes on because they have guards and taking him 2. Far fetched.

I’m nervous man….going to be a wreck on May 16th. 3 freaking months to go.

[Goob]

May be in the minority but I really like that Strawther dude frm Gonzaga if he is available to us when we pick in the second; has a nice all around game and I think would fit in well here.Same for Tubelis from Arizona.

[mo7888]

I agree….just hoping. Lol or someone falling in love with Brandon Miller and talking themselves into him as time goes on because they have guards and taking him 2. Far fetched.

I’m nervous man….going to be a wreck on May 16th. 3 freaking months to go.

I'm not that nervous because I think the talk on ST that this is a poor draft after #2 is nonsense... don't get me wrong, I definitely want to be in the top 2 because the drop-off is steep there but, that's not because of the guys that are 3-8, it's because the top 2 are generational talents...

[Ariel]

They're higher level athletes with no injury history... I will say that if Dariq Whitehead can stay healthy somebody is going to get a steal if he stays in the range he's in now in most mocks.
What good is athleticism for when it doesn't help you score, and it doesn't help you keep others from scoring? I'd rather have a very good athlete who has professional level skills, than a (supposedly) "better athlete" who underwhelms against 17 year olds. Let me put it this way: In order to label someone "injury prone", you need a repeated series of serious injuries with a causal connection. Landing awkwardly can happen to anyone due to chance, so there's a possibility Whitehead's recent injuries are a fluke and not indicative of an underlying issue.
On the other hand, being completely unable to shoot or finish (against 17 year olds) is much harder to chalk up to mere chance, and that IS a glaring reflection of a very serious flaw in a fundamental skill in modern basketball, that can nowadays render unplayable even the (otherwise) most gifted of basketball players.
And that doesn't even take into account their projected range on the board.
So let me say this again: I'll take my chances on Whitehead suffering an uncharacteristically close sequence of injuries as a low lottery pick, than both Thompson twins being able to transfer what they can do from high school to pros, and learning what they can't even do amongst their peers in the first place. For my money, it's a much better bet, and I'd hate for us to put all of our stock on the Thompson's fate. I'd feel really, really nervous if that were the case. Hope it doesn't come to that.

[mo7888]

What good is athleticism for when it doesn't help you score, and it doesn't help you keep others from scoring? I'd rather have a very good athlete who has professional level skills, than a (supposedly) "better athlete" who underwhelms against 17 year olds. Let me put it this way: In order to label someone "injury prone", you need a repeated series of serious injuries with a causal connection. Landing awkwardly can happen to anyone due to chance, so there's a possibility Whitehead's recent injuries are a fluke and not indicative of an underlying issue.
On the other hand, being completely unable to shoot or finish (against 17 year olds) is much harder to chalk up to mere chance, and that IS a glaring reflection of a very serious flaw in a fundamental skill in modern basketball, that can nowadays render unplayable even the (otherwise) most gifted of basketball players.
And that doesn't even take into account their projected range on the board.
So let me say this again: I'll take my chances on Whitehead suffering an uncharacteristically close sequence of injuries as a low lottery pick, than both Thompson twins being able to transfer what they can do from high school to pros, and learning what they can't even do amongst their peers in the first place. For my money, it's a much better bet, and I'd hate for us to put all of our stock on the Thompson's fate. I'd feel really, really nervous if that were the case. Hope it doesn't come to that.

That's certainly one way to look at it.... if Amen was on the board and I wanted Whitehead then I'd trade back and get more assets..

[spurs10]

I agree….just hoping. Lol or someone falling in love with Brandon Miller and talking themselves into him as time goes on because they have guards and taking him 2. Far fetched.

I’m nervous man….going to be a wreck on May 16th. 3 freaking months to go. Yeah I'm feeling the same. A lot riding on this.

[Ariel]

I don't have a problem with the Spurs taking a chance on the Thompson twins... I have a problem with the Spurs using their ONLY, VERY HIGH chance on the Thompsons. So if it comes to that, yes, I'm on the "trade back and pick more assets" camp. And if one of said assets ends up being a twin, so be it... but please not the whole of it. It's way, way too risky.

[mo7888]

I don't have a problem with the Spurs taking a chance on the Thompson twins... I have a problem with the Spurs using their ONLY, VERY HIGH chance on the Thompsons. So if it comes to that, yes, I'm on the "trade back and pick more assets" camp. And if one of said assets ends up being a twin, so be it... but please not the whole of it. It's way, way too risky.

I think the Thompson's have a very high ceiling but there's a lot of risk...I wouldn’t pick them in tne top 6...after that...maybe..

[scott]

This goes without saying, but there truly is a TON riding on these ping pong balls. Last year, landing in the Top 4 still meant you were getting a talented big with potential (albeit with very different skill sets). This year, the gaps are large as folks have pointed out and the fits are varied.

If you land Wemby:

I'd imagine the Spurs will want him at PF which kicks Sochan to the 3 or situationally a 5 and backup 4.
You're likely rolling with Tre and Devin as your starting backcourt and Bran as your backup flex guard. Between the three of them, the majority of the 96 minutes can get eaten up. You just need someone to maybe soak up 10 of them or so.
Keldon probably kicks to the bench, which might be a good place for him anyway
You're hoping Collins/Bassey can be a reasonable C duo
With so many picks on the horizon, you're going to find yourself in a few years with a logjam of guards and wings, and some guys are going to need to be moved/upgraded.
This is a great position to be in.


If you land Scoot:

You've solidified the 1
The rest of the lineup pretty much it what it is now, but at least you've got a lead PG to build around.
You likely aren't seeing huge improvement in Scoot's rookie year and are again a bottom 6-8 team looking to add a key piece in next year's draft, but you'd also likely got a TOR pick coming your way in addition to all the other future picks. Lots of more bites at the apple to quickly build around Scoot.


If you land 3-7

Well fuck... you're pretty much the same team as you are now, but with one more young unknown to develop. Back to the hard tank (as in, we better have a bottom 3 record next season)

[JPB]

I don't have a problem with the Spurs taking a chance on the Thompson twins... I have a problem with the Spurs using their ONLY, VERY HIGH chance on the Thompsons. So if it comes to that, yes, I'm on the "trade back and pick more assets" camp. And if one of said assets ends up being a twin, so be it... but please not the whole of it. It's way, way too risky.

Yeah, it's no so much that some of these guys are not intriguing, it's that you need a home run. Not like the glorious days where you could take flyers on #29 picks. Wouldn 't be surprised if Withmore (my personal lil' crush after Miller) finishes top #5. Could be a risky reach tho.

[Ariel]

Yeah, it's no so much that some of these guys are not intriguing, it's that you need a home run. Not like the glorious days where you could take flyers on #29 picks. Wouldn 't be surprised if Withmore (my personal lil' crush after Miller) finishes top #5. Could be a risky reach tho.
My dream scenario if we pick at 3, would be that Orlando picks at 4 or 5 and is infatuated with Amen Thompson. Trade back a spot, pick up an extra lottery pick, and come out with Brandon Miller and Cam Whitmore. And if you feel like taking an extra gamble, maybe figure out a way to add Dariq Whitehead or GG Jackson for that "swing for the fences", Blake Wesley type.

[JPB]

My dream scenario if we pick at 3, would be that Orlando picks at 4 or 5 and is infatuated with Amen Thompson. Trade back a spot, pick up an extra lottery pick, and come out with Brandon Miller and Cam Whitmore. And if you feel like taking an extra gamble, maybe figure out a way to add Dariq Whitehead or GG Jackson for that "swing for the fences", Blake Wesley type.

Sign me in. If Wright can end up with with Miller and Withmore with #3, he's already GM of the year and I wash his car for free til the next decade.

[rascal]

I don't have a problem with the Spurs taking a chance on the Thompson twins... I have a problem with the Spurs using their ONLY, VERY HIGH chance on the Thompsons. So if it comes to that, yes, I'm on the "trade back and pick more assets" camp. And if one of said assets ends up being a twin, so be it... but please not the whole of it. It's way, way too risky.

Spurs won't be taking either Thompson. Not the type of players they draft. Highly athletic talents with questionable shooting are not who they draft.

[K...]

Spurs won't be taking either Thompson. Not the type of players they draft. Highly athletic talents with questionable shooting are not who they draft.

you don't know who Wright will take or what the new owners want. Stop, the spurs have not picked this low since the early 1990s! WE might even have a new coach in waiting.

The spurs also won't trade the pick. no one is going to trust the spurs and will give us shit offers.

[Rito3d30]

Scoot coming up next in the rising star against Sochan's team,
Let's see how he hangs with the NBA talents

[spurraider21]

Spurs won't be taking either Thompson. Not the type of players they draft. Highly athletic talents with questionable shooting are not who they draft.
i mean sure if you ignore Wesley, DeJounte, Kawhi, LJC

[exstatic]

Honestly, why do the Thompson twins gain much more attention than, say, Dariq Whitehead? For all of his struggles, he's about the same size, a very good athlete, already competing at a high level, can REALLY shoot (over 40% from 3 & 90% from the line). Sure, he's struggled with efficiency, he's been injured often... but, for my money, if you're going for upside he seems a much more sensible gamble at the late lottery, than any of the Thompson twins at top 5.

So I sold myself. I'm adding Dariq Whitehead to the trade down candidate bunch.

He’s an odd duck. He’s going to have an NBA 3 pointer, but he might have to be a specialist. His assist/TO is a fraction, which should never happen unless you’re a traditional big. His FTs are 93%, but he shoots less than one per game. His advanced stats are awful. Some to like, but a lot of skill/play flags.

[exstatic]

you don't know who Wright will take or what the new owners want. Stop, the spurs have not picked this low since the early 1990s! WE might even have a new coach in waiting.

The spurs also won't trade the pick. no one is going to trust the spurs and will give us shit offers.

We had someone that bought a slice of the team, but the Holt younger generation are still the managing partners.

[DPG21920]

Scoot lowering that value lol

[Rito3d30]

Now I want Miller for the 2nd pick lol

[exstatic]

My dream scenario if we pick at 3, would be that Orlando picks at 4 or 5 and is infatuated with Amen Thompson. Trade back a spot, pick up an extra lottery pick, and come out with Brandon Miller and Cam Whitmore. And if you feel like taking an extra gamble, maybe figure out a way to add Dariq Whitehead or GG Jackson for that "swing for the fences", Blake Wesley type.

Don’t look now, but Chicago currently has a 32% chance to jump into the top 4, and snatch that second lottery pick back from Orlando, at least for another year.

[BacktoBasics]

My dream scenario if we pick at 3, would be that Orlando picks at 4 or 5 and is infatuated with Amen Thompson. Trade back a spot, pick up an extra lottery pick, and come out with Brandon Miller and Cam Whitmore. And if you feel like taking an extra gamble, maybe figure out a way to add Dariq Whitehead or GG Jackson for that "swing for the fences", Blake Wesley type.
I’ll respect that you said “dream scenario”. Because no one after 1 and 2 is good enough to justify giving up two lottery picks for.

You might trade the 3rd pick back for a mid lottery and mid 20 pick. That’s probably possible.

[Mr. Body]

Not really sure why the Ignite guys are in the Rising Stars. I get the league is marketing the little league, but the difference between them and even rookie NBA players is stark.

[mo7888]

I’ll respect that you said “dream scenario”. Because no one after 1 and 2 is good enough to justify giving up two lottery picks for.

You might trade the 3rd pick back for a mid lottery and mid 20 pick. That’s probably possible.

Nobody would trade the third pick for that...

https://thedatajocks.com/nba-draft-pick-values/

There's a statistical value chart on what picks are worth in a trade down scenario.. teams have their own data on this too..

[The Truth #6]

are we still really taking this kind of stuff seriously?

I’m not celebrating or inventing it, just acknowledging it.

[Mr. Body]

are we still really taking this kind of stuff seriously?

Yes, lol, of course.

[DPG21920]

Sochan been terrible lol….he’s really not taking this seriously at all. Noah about to have a heart attack watching him lol

[Mr. Body]

He's just fucking around. Having fun.

[DPG21920]

He's just fucking around. Having fun.

His team lost….I don’t care just stood out that he was goofing off more than any other player. Cost his team the game and Noah probably wants to kill him lmao

[Mr. Body]

He had the one great highlight from a kinda dumb event. What's cool is he gets to make connections with players and retired dudes.

[DPG21920]

Jabari Smith…man he looks bad

[Russ]

Jabari Smith…man he looks bad

Jabari plays with effort (he gets back on D) but without aggression or purpose. He's gonna have to shoot a lot better than he did tonight if he's gonna get by with that.

Sengun also looked pretty bad (speaking of Rockets).

[DPG21920]

Jabari plays with effort (he gets back on D) but without aggression or purpose. He's gonna have to shoot a lot better than he did tonight if he's gonna get by with that.

Sengun also looked pretty bad (speaking of Rockets).

Sengun has been good all season…but man Jabari shot is way off for someone that was supposed to be a shooter.

[Mr. Body]

Jabari is terrible inside, just no touch. I feel like the outside shot might come around. But yeah.

[offset formation]

I saw Amen Thompson in person recently and he's an A++ athlete. It's difficult to tell on video because he's going against 16 year olds most of the time but he legit might be more athletic than anyone in the NBA currently. I hate Amen's jumper, he's never been taught defense and his touch in the lane is poor ... but he's ungodly athletic, he's ~6-foot-7, he can dribble and he he has good court vision. Tbh, I was skeptical but now I think he goes No. 3 no questions asked. Once teams see his athleticism in person, I doubt anyone will pass on him after Wemby and Scoot.

Sounds an awful lot like a taller prime Russell Westbrook

[heyheymymy]

As focused as I am on the lottery pick, cant help but wonder who might fall or be a value at 31 and the TOR 2RP.

If someone like Baba Miller is still available it could be a steal.

Not sure I see quality falling, but someone like Taylor Hendricks, Noah Clowney or JH-S miraculously fell 6-7 spots I would be thrilled. Also wonder if SA would bundle #31 and #38 + say a 3rd NOLA 2RP to sweeten the deal if a dream faller is still hanging in after like #25 overall.

IND UTA and BKN all have additional picks 8n that range but how likely are they to part with them?

But if not, I'm totally hooked on Jordan Hawkins from UCONN as a realistically available player at #31 and would take a stab at say Jordan Walsh, Nnaj, Jackson-Davis and possibly Dillion Mitchell with the TOR 2023 2RP.

But here is where the draft equity logjam begins so I am not against tossing tons of picks in a trade up to burn multiple picks from the stash to lock in just one promising name.

You are never going to sign all these picks individually, time to get aggressive and bundle up 3-4 2RPs into one solid move up selection you have your heart set on. I would burn a handful of picks if it meant nabbing upward on even just one intriguing fit.

[heyheymymy]

wow looks like Baba Miller would go undrafted realistically lol guess I'm off on that one. Still like his size for how athletic he is but yeah, he doesn't appear on any mocks and I read he had a suspension so not Spurs material lol.

Also looks like I'm all over the place on late firsts. Clowney could go way too high (#16 ) to nab in the late first and Hawkins is mocked in some places too early to score with SAs 2RPs. Of course other mocks has Sesabaugh dropping near the late first and I have him near late lottery in most mocks so there is some huge swings this early on and with a month before even the tournament we will see these fluctuations. At any rate, someone is gonna fall lol, I want a steal.

[Mr. Body]

As focused as I am on the lottery pick, cant help but wonder who might fall or be a value at 31 and the TOR 2RP.

If someone like Baba Miller is still available it could be a steal.

Not sure I see quality falling, but someone like Taylor Hendricks, Noah Clowney or JH-S miraculously fell 6-7 spots I would be thrilled. Also wonder if SA would bundle #31 and #38 + say a 3rd NOLA 2RP to sweeten the deal if a dream faller is still hanging in after like #25 overall.

IND UTA and BKN all have additional picks 8n that range but how likely are they to part with them?

But if not, I'm totally hooked on Jordan Hawkins from UCONN as a realistically available player at #31 and would take a stab at say Jordan Walsh, Nnaj, Jackson-Davis and possibly Dillion Mitchell with the TOR 2023 2RP.

But here is where the draft equity logjam begins so I am not against tossing tons of picks in a trade up to burn multiple picks from the stash to lock in just one promising name.

You are never going to sign all these picks individually, time to get aggressive and bundle up 3-4 2RPs into one solid move up selection you have your heart set on. I would burn a handful of picks if it meant nabbing upward on even just one intriguing fit.

It's really right to start thinking about the problem of too many picks. Obviously a good problem, but judicious moves will be necessary. I like the idea of moving into the late first round with those two picks. I feel those very dearly SRPs have some special value because they're not tied to a salary structure.

Or the team can trade one out. I think we'll see some of these picks get bumped into the future, especially as teams are tapped out.

Ultimately I don't like adding more than two new rookies. Our very early one, of course. Like you I like taking a big with the SRP and haven't been shy about really liking Jackson-Davis. He's going to be a steal, but I kinda think he'll go late FR. Those other names are good. But we're getting into the issue of cannibalizing development. Bassey is still pretty young. At what point are you defeating yourself by taking someone more raw than he is?

I also like wings, which we need, just don't know what's there. Maybe a Jalen Wilson type.

[heyheymymy]

Agreed Mr Body

Looking at these late FRPs that IND has. Pacers have a lottery pick, but they also possibly have a #26 and a #30 too. If IND is tapped out by then, their dream fit guys aren't there when they come up to select or if IND personally views talent a/o fit availability in the #25 - #30 range as not much different than #31 - #38ish + future 2RPs to sweeten the deal, with the added benefit of the less expensive 2RP salary scale, they might bite.

Just really hard to say unless some early first reaches push quality down. I personally wouldn't really trade a #26 for a #31, #38 plus future 2RPs unless it was super situational financially, they just don't like the remaining selections personally, or they view their roster as more set and want backfill that won't threaten the guys they already committed long term on. There might be a path there with IND. They got Mathurn and Hali established, locked in the prime time big longterm, if IND picks that lottery selection and perhaps even the #26 to fill out the roster better, they may be tapped out by #30 and give it up for some 2RPs they could stash a selection, trade away or at least not pay as much. Even just that one slot upward could be huge with some of the names looming around late first. Just a little reach could nudge down into our reaches some gold. Ideally I'd want to push up more that 1-2 slots, the #26 would be better, but it just depends on how draft day goes.

[heyheymymy]

Another one, UTA possibly has #12 and #16 do they really still want the #27 too? Haven't done a deep dive on the Jazz roster /contracts yet, perhaps they do want all picks.

All scenarios based on how it stands today naturally and as such are approximations

[rankingtear]

Man that finals are just a bunch of large human beings and Jose Alvarado. Glimpse into the future of the NBA and Sochan looks like he belongs. Jarace and Wemby are these guys.

[Mr. Body]

I didn't realize Indiana has two picks in the 20s. I really don't see TJD going past them.

[Ariel]

I’ll respect that you said “dream scenario”. Because no one after 1 and 2 is good enough to justify giving up two lottery picks for.

You might trade the 3rd pick back for a mid lottery and mid 20 pick. That’s probably possible.
I can accept you not believing this next draft class warrants it, but that's about fair price for jumping up a couple of spots in the top 5. A mid 20s pick is only good enough to jump from 15 to, say, 13. This last draft, for instance, Memphis traded 22 & 29 for 19, basically using that late first rounder to jump up 3 spots at the early 20s / low teens. So a mid 20s may only get you to jump a couple of spots at the late lottery at best.

[Ariel]

Sounds an awful lot like a taller prime Russell Westbrook
A Russell Westbrook who STRUGGLES AT THE RIM. What does that leave us with?

[K...]

Russel westrbook is a good draft pick in almost all draft years! ALmost always top 5 on a redraft? you don't have to like the player, but the spurs would love a westrbook on controlled salary. OBV your complaint is about the pace of development of a prospect on defined high slaray. The biggest problem with westbrook is salary

[rascal]

Spurs need to find a way to get Jalen Hood-Shifino

That guy is going to be great. Incredible shots going to the basket and a great distributor /passer and a nice mid range and perimeter shot, really a smooth player.
a position of need at pg.

[wildbill2u]

I refuse to be fooled by deer anymore. If you can’t play basketball in your peer group at a high level, IDGAF how high you can jump. Cam Boozer is DESTROYING the same comp the Thompson’s are coasting through at FIFTEEN years old. I’d pick him second in this years draft if he were eligible, and his draft class and ATL’s struggles may make that 2026 swap the most valuable asset in our war chest.

Charles Barkley said it best: "Deer can run fast and jump high--but you don't find them playing in the NBA."

[wildbill2u]

Our second round pick will be Nikola Djurisic simply because he is a good Serbian boy that Pop will want to give a chance. Might as well book this one for sure.

[exstatic]

Sochan been terrible lol….he’s really not taking this seriously at all. Noah about to have a heart attack watching him lol

He looked bored. The team was force feeding Grimes. I’m not sure he understands fake basketball.

[DPG21920]

He looked bored. The team was force feeding Grimes. I’m not sure he understands fake basketball.

Lol maybe - but he was goofing off more than anyone trying to be flashy (no I’m not hating - just observation) and it was not good….Who cares, he had fun and had a couple fun moments.

[Mr. Body]

I mean, it's an All-Star game. You're supposed to have fun.

[Dejounte]

Scoot looked like the best player on the floor tbh

to me, either the #1 or #2 pick is a win. What’s that? 28% chance?

[DPG21920]

Scoot looked like the best player on the floor tbh

to me, either the #1 or #2 pick is a win. What’s that? 28% chance?

Yup. Full odds by position for anyone interested. Even have a terrible random draft pick generator which always had SA landing 4-6 lol :cry

https://www.tankathon.com/pick_odds

[Dejounte]

Not high enough odds lol. Mentally preparing for the 3rd pick to 6th. In which case I would be happy with more players who play versatile and have upside that isn’t apparent right away (like Sochan).

[Dejounte]

Jarace Walker
Keyonte George
Cam Whitmore
GG Jackson

Any of these guys if we land outside the top 2 and I’m satisfied tbh

[mo7888]

Jarace Walker
Keyonte George
Cam Whitmore
GG Jackson

Any of these guys if we land outside the top 2 and I’m satisfied tbh

I wanna trade back if we're outside the top 2....we can still get one of those guys and another player

[Mr. Body]

Not high enough odds lol. Mentally preparing for the 3rd pick to 6th. In which case I would be happy with more players who play versatile and have upside that isn’t apparent right away (like Sochan).

Just expect one of those later picks. I haven't looked at a single Wembanyama things - vids or otherwise - all year.

[Dejounte]

I wanna trade back if we're outside the top 2....we can still get one of those guys and another player

I’ve already mentally prepared that we’re landing outside the top 2… thinking we’ll get additional value from trading that pick afterwards is doing the reverse again and putting hope in something that’s even less likely to happen than our 28% chance of getting a top two pick.

[Kurik]

I’ve seen Jarace Walker fly up some mock drafts recently, real potential? And would he fit next to Sochan, Vassell, etc?

[Dejounte]

Jarace’s defensive metrics are through the roof right now. Not sure if he keeps it up but if he does, he might be the best defensive prospect in a decade. I’d rather bet on building from a player who is exceptional on defense than just good offense (Brandon Miller). Brandon would have to have top scorer in the NBA upside for me to pick him, and right now I don’t see it. Maybe it changes next month. So I’m gambling on the guy we can develop into a two way player.

[mo7888]

I’ve already mentally prepared that we’re landing outside the top 2… thinking we’ll get additional value from trading that pick afterwards is doing the reverse again and putting hope in something that’s even less likely to happen than our 28% chance of getting a top two pick.

I'm not putting hope in anything...the odds are against any move really....it's just what I'd like to see happen if we're in that spot....there are no expectations though.

[Ariel]

I’ve already mentally prepared that we’re landing outside the top 2… thinking we’ll get additional value from trading that pick afterwards is doing the reverse again and putting hope in something that’s even less likely to happen than our 28% chance of getting a top two pick.
How is picking a bunch of guys projected to be available 5 to 10 picks later value? I don't mind GG Jackson at all, but him at 3 - 5 right now is asinine. Like Mo said, at the very least trade back and get picks. Otherwise it's Primo all over again, but worse. I'd rather trade the pick away if that's the route we'll go.

[Ariel]

Call Utah and trade them your pick for theirs, or Indiana, or Orlando, or if this is a weak draft and you're not confident in any of the guys in your range, trade it for a future unrestricted pick to, say, Charlotte, Detroit, or whomever. But don't settle for crap at 3-5. That's just disheartening.

[Mr. Body]

Arkansas has struggled this year, both with injuries and mediocrity. They're handling Florida pretty easily today.

Nick Smith is still getting his legs back. So far he's looked slight and cannot get a lot of separation. I'll wait on any judgment.

Anthony Black just destroyed Florida ballhandlers two possessions in a row in one-on-one fullcourt presses. I know he still lags behind in many boards, but he does so much. Sure, his shot needs work, and he doesn't land his passes quite enough -- but he's a superior defender, his vision is often eye-popping. Then there are minor things. He draws a good amount of fouls, averaging 5 FTAs a game. He has a 3.1% steal rate. I found this article that's pretty interesting about that metric correlating to future succes:

https://medium.com/unpluggd-mag/the-relationship-between-steal-rates-and-nba-success-fbc8d668e9fa

[Ariel]

Watched a bit of Kentucky, saw people blow by Cason Wallace or hit 3s in his face... granted, it was a very small sample, but wasn't very impressed with purported Jrue 2.0

[Dejounte]

How is picking a bunch of guys projected to be available 5 to 10 picks later value? I don't mind GG Jackson at all, but him at 3 - 5 right now is asinine. Like Mo said, at the very least trade back and get picks. Otherwise it's Primo all over again, but worse. I'd rather trade the pick away if that's the route we'll go.

Because I don’t share the same philosophy you or others do. If you covet a player, you take him without risk losing the chance to get him. You trade down, you risk another team getting that player. Other times, there weren’t any realistic trades on the table and folks get upset the team drafted a player they “could have gotten later”. I’m not so obsessed with getting incremental value especially when there’s risk involved. Most view roster management like it’s trading cards and squeezing what they can out of every asset while ignoring the nuances behind every move. It’s the Daryl Morey style of management, and I’m glad the Spurs are not close to being that.

[DPG21920]

Not high enough odds lol. Mentally preparing for the 3rd pick to 6th. In which case I would be happy with more players who play versatile and have upside that isn’t apparent right away (like Sochan).

Agree - pick 5 or 6 would feel like a loss but SA only has a 52% shot a top 4 pick. So it’s a coin toss between 1-4 and 5/6. Just have to get lucky. It’s going to be very nervy once we get to pick 6. Have to survive 4 agonizing envelopes

[JPB]

Jarace’s defensive metrics are through the roof right now. Not sure if he keeps it up but if he does, he might be the best defensive prospect in a decade. I’d rather bet on building from a player who is exceptional on defense than just good offense (Brandon Miller). Brandon would have to have top scorer in the NBA upside for me to pick him, and right now I don’t see it. Maybe it changes next month. So I’m gambling on the guy we can develop into a two way player.

I beg to differ, what I 'm seeing of Miller defensively leads to me to think he can be elite on that part. Mobile, focused, nice hands and feet, quick lateral movement, anticipates well (0.9 stl) he's taller than Nephew and play a different postion (although not so sure in today's positionless NBA,) but as I already said, if commited (and he seems like that kind of guy) I see a potential elite two way player. TOs are an issue but nothing dramatic for a college player.

I mean a 6'9 mobile, young scoring player shooting 42.5% on high volume 3s and 82.5 on FTs with great potential on defense and good mentality is what you may want in your 2023's NBA... Reason why I see him as the guy behind the big 2 .

[DPG21920]

I beg to differ, what I 'm seeing of Miller defensively leads to me to think he can be elite on that part. Mobile, focused, nice hands and feet, quick lateral movement, anticipates well (0.9 stl) he's taller than Nephew and play a different postion (although not so sure in today's positionless NBA,) but as I already said, if commited (and he seems like that kind of guy) I see a potential elite two way player. TOs are an issue but nothing dramatic for a college player.

I mean a 6'9 mobile, young scoring player shooting 42.5% on high volume 3s and 82.5 on FTs with great potential on defense and good mentality is what you may want in your 2023's NBA... Reason why I see him as the guy behind the big 2 .

He’s got a lot of Paul George in him…not sure he gets to that level, but shades of it if things break right from highlights I have seen.

[Mr. Body]

I think Keyonte George and Gradey Dick will both go top 8, depending on what happens to Amen and Ausar.

Hard for me to take seriously those who say G-League is better than top level college. This Kansas-Baylor game is intense. Every play is contested, each possession matters. The crowd is loud and hostile. A thousand possessions in a individual workout circuit couldn't light a lightbulb compared to what's happening in these games.

[Mr. Body]

Keyonte George going a little wild. These are kind of bad 3s he's taking but he's hitting.

[exstatic]

I think Keyonte George and Gradey Dick will both go top 8, depending on what happens to Amen and Ausar.

Hard for me to take seriously those who say G-League is better than top level college. This Kansas-Baylor game is intense. Every play is contested, each possession matters. The crowd is loud and hostile. A thousand possessions in a individual workout circuit couldn't light a lightbulb compared to what's happening in these games.

The only thing gleague is better than is OTE.

[heyheymymy]

The thing that sucks are the odds beater leap frogs in the lottery. WSH, CHI, TOR some of these teams are leapfrogging like +8 selection slots.

If SA gets pushed down #3-6 it better not be because GSW landed #2 on a +12 jump lol wtf

[offset formation]

A Russell Westbrook who STRUGGLES AT THE RIM. What does that leave us with?

Bright red flags.

Amon is, uh, not someone I'd draft at 3, certainly, if I didn't make this clear. Not sure why the description of a super athletic big that can't shoot, can't finish, and can't defend is something anyone would consider at 3. Those skills are often not learned. Shooting doesn't typically become significantly more efficient. Finishing is a skill you have or you don't. And defense is about effort and desire. That is a big red flag to me.

Look, I go off what my gut tells me and my gut says stay away at 3

[AFBlue]

Keyonte George going a little wild. These are kind of bad 3s he's taking but he's hitting.

He's an absolute bucket. My concern is his matador defense. How quick would that Pop hook be.