Draft projects to watch besides Wembanyama & Henderson

[exstatic]

Anthony Black is Jeremy Sochan. I'm telling you guys. Different bodies, different positions, but he's the same player.

It's scary how well they compare. Anthony with a few more assists, Sochan with a few more rebounds. Black even keeps his left hand on the ball when he shoots FTs, like Sochan did before.

[duncan2150]

Anthony Black is Jeremy Sochan. I'm telling you guys. Different bodies, different positions, but he's the same player.

I really like Black but i saw Sochan as a better prospect coming from Baylor because of his D. Imo he was elite.

Wich part of Black's game do you see as potentially elite ?


I've seen a lot of comparisons between Walker and Randle, but don't see it at all - same body type, sure, but their games are completely different.

I like Walker if the Spurs don't land a top 2 pick and trade down. He's malleable.

They are totally different, an offensive PF vs a defensive PF if i exagerrate.

[Mr. Body]

I really like Black but i saw Sochan as a better prospect coming from Baylor because of his D. Imo he was elite.

Wich part of Black's game do you see as potentially elite ?


Black is possibly the best perimeter defender in this class.

[duncan2150]

Black is possibly the best perimeter defender in this class.

Yes you right, really good stealer.

I don't see him too much on one on one defense like Sochan last year. Last year i belevied in Sochan's offensive upside, maybe a little bit less for Black but really interesting prospect for sure.

[scott]

If we end up #3, maybe Miller is exactly who ORL would view as the final building block. If Miller’s issues are going to DQ him from being a Spur, then I’d like Black + Whitmore over taking anyone else to be considered at 3.

I remain higher on Whitmore than others. I see glimpses of Nephew mixed with Rudy Gay. He’s definitely raw, but if anyone can build him, it’s the Spurs.

[Ariel]

If we end up #3, maybe Miller is exactly who ORL would view as the final building block. If Miller’s issues are going to DQ him from being a Spur, then I’d like Black + Whitmore over taking anyone else to be considered at 3.

I remain higher on Whitmore than others. I see glimpses of Nephew mixed with Rudy Gay. He’s definitely raw, but if anyone can build him, it’s the Spurs.
This is exactly my alternate dream scenario. If we can't get Wemby or won't draft Miller or Scoot, Cam Whitmore + Anthony Black is the absolute best possible we could make, and it would make perfect sense for Orlando to consolidate both picks into a higher one. And, while we're at it, I'd extort them for a third (future pick)... they won't need it.
And as the cherry on top of the cake, get me Dariq Whitehead in the late lottery (use a future pick or some current asset). Trade Keldon for some PG / front court help, and we're done. :hungry:

[BackHome]

Tankathon finally came out with a new mock have us taking Miller at 3 -Walker goes 6th, Cam goes 7th, and Black goes 10th

[BackHome]

The Spurs need to draft Jarace Walker. That guy is so freaking good, it's scary. His potential offensive ceiling is high, fantastic work ethic, athleticism, strength, and ball handling. Has ok 3pt% and a concerning 67% FT percentage, but he shot 85% on his free throws in AAU and has tremendous touch on his shot. I feel like he's going to be a multi-year DPOY and a potential MVP candidate with good coaching.

Imagine playing Walker, Schoan, and Vessell together? I also think that Walker is a 3.5 in the NBA. I think you can play Walker, Schoan, and a legit rim protecting 5 in 3 years or less. That's a championship level core I think..

Seeing some hype regarding Walker a lot of talk that he is playing a specific team role as he is a Freshman and starting on a very good team. So he is doing exactly what the coaches want from him regarding his role but that he has show to be able to do a lot more then what he is showing right now.

[JPB]

This is exactly my alternate dream scenario. If we can't get Wemby or won't draft Miller or Scoot, Cam Whitmore + Anthony Black is the absolute best possible we could make, and it would make perfect sense for Orlando to consolidate both picks into a higher one. And, while we're at it, I'd extort them for a third (future pick)... they won't need it.
And as the cherry on top of the cake, get me Dariq Whitehead in the late lottery (use a future pick or some current asset). Trade Keldon for some PG / front court help, and we're done. :hungry:

That's indeed a dream scenario that probably can happen only in a dream, not even mentioning the 3rd FRP (you greedy, man). I don't see how it would be possible to have both those guys trading down. If we value them, and I do too (I'm also high on Whitmore), no doubt others do... The closer the draft, the bigger the attention and the bigger their individual value. That's a bit like last year and "Poeltl for CHA #13 and #15" where Poeltl was seen as someone CHA def would want since it was kinda fitting the pro trade downs desires...

I honestly just don't know where ORL wants to go but I have a really hard time believing they'd give 3 FPRs for #3, nor even "just" this year's 2 FPRs. Before also mentioning that I truly believe Wright would take Miller.

[BacktoBasics]

I’m not particularly high on Miller but there’s no reason for the Spurs to not draft Scoot or Miller unless you’re getting 2 lottery picks and probable third 1st round pick. I don’t see any team offering 3 first for the 2nd or 3rd pick.

[The Truth #6]

I've seen a lot of comparisons between Walker and Randle, but don't see it at all - same body type, sure, but their games are completely different.

I like Walker if the Spurs don't land a top 2 pick and trade down. He's malleable.

True. I shouldn't have included Randle. I've seen all those comps as well. But I think the level of success he could have if things align for him could be similar to Julius Randle, that's really what I meant.

[exstatic]

.

Seeing some hype regarding Walker a lot of talk that he is playing a specific team role as he is a Freshman and starting on a very good team. So he is doing exactly what the coaches want from him regarding his role but that he has show to be able to do a lot more then what he is showing right now.

His shooting splits kind of scare me. Not awful on 3p. 34.4, small sample, but that 61% FTs doesn't scream any improvement. His projected NBA 3p is 33%.

[Mr. Body]

Yes you right, really good stealer.

I don't see him too much on one on one defense like Sochan last year. Last year i belevied in Sochan's offensive upside, maybe a little bit less for Black but really interesting prospect for sure.

He is, though. He's very quick laterally, plus maintains a wide balanced base, stays very upright to take contact on drives, gets very skinny over screens. He doesn't gamble or freelance for steals, but does get them in his area, the way Kawhi sometimes did, i.e. pick the pocket of guys driving past him. So, he doesn't lose defensive form and still gets steals. He can harass ballhandlers bringing it up the court. He's done the Manu thing springing into the air on an inbounder and corralling the ball. Above everything, he's a high-energy guy who doesn't stop on plays. He's basically very quick, with good instincts, works hard, and is 6'7".

To be very honest, his advanced stats aren't in Sochan's ballpark. Jeremy beat him every advanced category -- https://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=anthony-black--jeremy-sochan.

I think it's fair to put Black in the 9-12 range. He'll likely go there and teams may quickly wonder why he didn't go higher.

[Mr. Body]

It's against the Howard Bison, but Gradey Dick looks ready for the tournament with 17 and 9 with 3 assists and 3 steals.

I'm a fan. As a shooter, he's not just a spot-up shooter. As a shooter, he does a lot of other things. Good feel for the game and not the terrible defender every white kid is advertised to be.

No idea what happens, but I feel he's in top 10 consideration.

[Ariel]

That's indeed a dream scenario that probably can happen only in a dream, not even mentioning the 3rd FRP (you greedy, man). I don't see how it would be possible to have both those guys trading down. If we value them, and I do too (I'm also high on Whitmore), no doubt others do... The closer the draft, the bigger the attention and the bigger their individual value. That's a bit like last year and "Poeltl for CHA #13 and #15" where Poeltl was seen as someone CHA def would want since it was kinda fitting the pro trade downs desires...

I honestly just don't know where ORL wants to go but I have a really hard time believing they'd give 3 FPRs for #3, nor even "just" this year's 2 FPRs. Before also mentioning that I truly believe Wright would take Miller.
Provided the other party is REALLY interested in some guy (in this case, Brandon Miller), trading up for a perceived top talent and future franchise cornerstone doesn't come cheap. In the case alluded, if we end up with 2/3 AND the FO isn't sold on Scoot or Miller (for whatever reasons), and Orlando lands 2 later lottery picks as expected (theirs and Chicago's), then it's perfectly reasonable ask for both in order to let them have who many perceive as a franchise talent and 2nd best overall player. That's actually fair value given history and statistical research. A third pick is a bonus, if you get it fine, if not oh well.
A trade is contingent on just how much the other team covets their target, it's when they want somebody to the limits of reason or beyond that rip offs are made; if they accept you win, if they don't you move on plan B and you lost nothing.
Danny Ainge has made a living with this strategy, he only trades with desperate teams and asks for more than reasonable, and results are there for everyone to see. Hadn't he had the nerve to ask for a king's ransom for Gobert, he never would have gotten such package in return. Same thing with Orlando's return for Vucevic (Wendell Carter, a pick that ended up being Franz Wagner, and a likely top 10 pick this year. By your logic both those moves would sound ridiculous, yet they happened because they had the nerve to ask high and let the other party draw the line.
I also disagree with your statement "if we value them, no doubt others do", that defeatist mindset (I won't get it, so why bother trying) will only prevent you from pursuing the better opportunities. Surely other would have taken Tony, Kawhi, before they were within reach, right? Yet they didn't. Every situation is different, every GM sees things from a different perspective and has a different set of values, priorities, constraints... you have to be vigilant, when there's a difference in perception of value there are gains to be had.
Finally, you mention of last year's proposed trade with Charlotte actually goes against your case: they ended up selling no. 13 for a projected late first round pick from Milwaukee. Would your reasoning have predicted that? In hindsight, moving up to no. 9 would have been much better value for them. It just so happened that they were satisfied with their guy at 15, but that in no way refutes the idea that it was a fair trade. Same thing with Poeltl, most trade ideas were centered around Poeltl for one of the picks plus a youngster, which is very close to what we ended up getting for a diminished asset (closer to expiring). So I fail to see how any of it refutes those ideas.

[Degoat]

Miller has zero points at half against Corpus Christi A&M… not a very competitive game but not a great start for a potential top 5 pick lol

[Atl Spur]

It's against the Howard Bison, but Gradey Dick looks ready for the tournament with 17 and 9 with 3 assists and 3 steals.

I'm a fan. As a shooter, he's not just a spot-up shooter. As a shooter, he does a lot of other things. Good feel for the game and not the terrible defender every white kid is advertised to be.

No idea what happens, but I feel he's in top 10 consideration.

He’s scrappy.

[Mr. Body]

He’s scrappy.

He plays the right way.

[Mr. Body]

Brandon Miller firing blanks.

[exstatic]

Brandon Miller firing blanks.

It's good to find out early if someone folds under pressure.

[BacktoBasics]

It's good to find out early if someone folds under pressure.

There was no pressure at any point in this game.

Pressure would be if the game was close and he fails to figure out a way to insert himself. This has been a noncompetitive game since it was 8-0 bama. Certainly not great to see the donut but CC hasn’t been a threat all game. I’m indifferent about his performance.

Let’s see if the next game is at all interesting.

[Mr. Body]

It's good to find out early if someone folds under pressure.

He keeps missing the target.

[exstatic]

There was no pressure at any point in this game.

Pressure would be if the game was close and he fails to figure out a way to insert himself. This has been a noncompetitive game since it was 8-0 bama. Certainly not great to see the donut but CC hasn’t been a threat all game. I’m indifferent about his performance.

Let’s see if the next game is at all interesting.

The tournament itself is pressurized. If he can't shoot in this easy early game, how is he going to react to increasingly better opponents?

[BacktoBasics]

The tournament itself is pressurized. If he can't shoot in this easy early game, how is he going to react to increasingly better opponents?

I have no problem making that point. Only that this game wasn’t competitive from the start. There was literally no pressure on him after realizing that it wasn’t gonna be his night. He leaned on teammates in a blow out.

Not really indicative of anything to me.

Maybe he was distracted with the death threats etc.

[Mr. Body]

It's not a big deal to me he didn't score in their win. I just wanted to type out some puns that no one got.

[John B]

It's not a big deal to me he didn't score in their win. I just wanted to type out some puns that no one got.

Zero points for Spurs projected pick? Yikes

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Very impressed again with Jordan Walsh’s defense. He might stay in school another year but if he declares and is available around where the Spurs’s 2nd rounder is I’d love him as a 3 and D project.

[JPB]

The tournament itself is pressurized. If he can't shoot in this easy early game, how is he going to react to increasingly better opponents?

That we'll precisely see... Let's the tournament play out before drawing defintive conclusions... Hell, even if Miller is meh during the tournament, NBA teams will still focus on potential.

[BackHome]

Zero points for Spurs projected pick? Yikes

I think the death threats against him might have impacted his play - they now have armed guards for him for the tournament

[BackHome]

Damn Arizona loosing to Princeton was quite the shocker

[Mr. Body]

I think the death threats against him might have impacted his play - they now have armed guards for him for the tournament

You know who didn't get to hire an armed guard to protect her?

[BacktoBasics]

You know who didn't get to hire an armed guard to protect her?

Handing someone a gun for self defense isn’t a crime.

Sincerely,

Every white guy who’s ever handed a gun to a friend.

If you don’t think it’s right that Miller wasn’t charged as the 3rd degree of separation from the actual murderer and accomplice then we should stop electing gun culture advocates who demand gun ownership come with zero accountability.

[JPB]

Handing someone a gun for self defense isn’t a crime.

Sincerely,

Every white guy who’s ever handed a gun to a friend.

If you don’t think it’s right that Miller wasn’t charged as the 3rd degree of separation from the actual murderer and accomplice then we should stop electing gun culture advocates who demand gun ownership come with zero accountability.

Indeed and that's the whole point, from a moral point of view.

Why did he give the gun? If he knew, there's ofc no debate. But nobody precisely knows why and what his friend told him. Was there a good idea anyway? No. Should he have had a gun anyway? No. But there's a difference between being stupid and wanting to be cool or take care of your street cred with a bro by giving him the gun he asked, and knowing what was the whole purpose...

Was his reaction appropriate? No. Something not to underestimate is also his entourage, family, friends, agents... trying to protect the cash cow and whispering all kind of stuff in his ears... And the backlash and death threats are probably not new and could explain part of that reaction. Maybe, maybe not. But again, we don't know anything about any of that...

[JPB]

The way things are going, not even sure Scoot is guaranteed in the top 3.

[exstatic]

Smith Jr. shit the bed, too. 6 points 2-10 0 rebounds 0 assists 1 steal.

[Mr. Body]

Smith Jr. shit the bed, too. 6 points 2-10 0 rebounds 0 assists 1 steal.

I've been saying it for a while, he ain't good.

[tim_duncan_fan]

The way things are going, not even sure Scoot is guaranteed in the top 3.

In short bulletpoints, what do people like about him? Is he the next Chris Paul?
When I watched a few minutes of an ignite game, he didn't look fast or athletic or Steph-esque.

[slick'81]

guess it really is wemby or bust

[Mr. Body]

It's kind of fascinating how people are now suddenly shitting on Scoot when maybe we shouldn't have been buying the ungodly hype to begin with.

[heyheymymy]

Yeah give me #1 or give me #5-7.

If not #1 you can go ahead and skip, say, #2, 3, & 4 as well lol

[mo7888]

Perspectives and echo chambers are a funny thing... some of you have talked yourselves into believing this draft is something that it's not. You've craped on it so much you're believing your own narratives. Some of you are going to be stunned in 3 years when you realize that this was the best draft we've seen in quite some time.

[Mr. Body]

Perspectives and echo chambers are a funny thing... some of you have talked yourselves into believing this draft is something that it's not. You've craped on it so much you're believing your own narratives. Some of you ate going to be stunned in 3 years when you realize that this was the best draft we've seen in quite some time.

Because of Cam Whitmore, right? I think it's Cam Whitmore.

[mo7888]

Because of Cam Whitmore, right? I think it's Cam Whitmore.

He's definitely a good prospect... like most of the raw talents, he needs to find himself in the right situation with the right development staff.

[exstatic]

In short bulletpoints, what do people like about him? Is he the next Chris Paul?
When I watched a few minutes of an ignite game, he didn't look fast or athletic or Steph-esque.

He had a really high RSCI rating in HS. The end.

[rankingtear]

Neither of those players is a franchise guy. Beal has never even taken the Wiz to the playoffs as The Guy.

If you put me on the clock with Keyonte and Anthony Black still on the board, I take Black 100 times out of 100. He's bigger, has a MUCH better asst/TO ratio, smokes Keyonte on the efficiency stats like TS% and EF FG%, and gets assists, rebounds and steals at a good rate. With a USG% of 21, he has plenty of room, and with his efficiency, the expectation of increased scoring.

Black does play 6 more minutes their assist rate and rebound rate are about the same. Adjusted for usage Black has higher turnover rate. Likely that TS and EFG% goes down if they have the same usage. That steal rate is the only one Black has the edge on the stats you provided. He is a better defender for sure, but as a lead guard prospect Keyonte is way more advance.

[duncan2150]

After the guards, i will talk about the fowards who could be available at the end of the first ( trading up) or with our secound rounders.


Bilal Coulibaly- SF – France – HT: 6-6 –Wingspan : 7'2/7'3 ( 18 yrs old)


I really like Bilal Coulibaly, watching him here in Paris. Long, athletic player with a good awareness. Big potential especially on D with a huge wingspan, offensively he plays more off the ball, cuts and still progressing.

He's climbing the boards after some good games with the Metropolitans( Victor's team).




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yg4z2pI0clU



Jalen Wilson SF – Kansas – HT: 6-8 – WT: 215 Wingspan : 6'8
Stats: 20.1 pts 8.4 rbs 2.3 ast 42.5 % 33.8 3 pt % ( 5 3pga/g)


The senior is playing well this year tough the % are not that good, could be a complete player. Not so athletic but good nose fot the basket. More of a mid to end secound rounder for me.

Only like here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-LGFhn26Gg



Leonard Miller- G League Ignite (Canada) – HT: 6-10 – WT: 211 – Wingspan: 7-2
Stats( 24 games) : 18 pts 11 rbs (3.3 offensive) 1.6 ast 0.9 stl 0.8 block 55% 79% Ft 33% 3pt ( 2 3pag)

After a short hype coming into last year draft, Miller dissapeared a little bit. After a correct season in G league, he could be a good investment with a late pick. He's long, can shoot, rebound.... a good project.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8C0Mopg_CYU

Kris Murray- Iowa- HT: 6-8 _ WT: 225lbs
Stats: 20.2 pts 7.9 rbs 2 ast 1.2 block 1 stl 47.6% 33.5 3pt % ( 6.8 3pag) 73% ft

Keegan Murray twin is having a breakout season in Iowa, now the leader of the team he's solid. Can score in different ways, defend and do a lot of things.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUOSuKDthZk


My wild card, Kobe Brown- 6'7 240 lbs foward from Missouri ( he had a good game yesterday in the tournament), similar to me to Herb Jones on what he could be in the league. Good IQ, complete and mature player.
Stats : 15.9 pts 6.3 rbs 2.5 ast 1.5 stl 0.5 block 55.9 % 45.8 % 3pts ( 3 3pa/g) 79%ft

Only the link here : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhgpgcEZQL8


Mentions : Jaime Jaquez( UCLA), Keyontae Johnson ( Kansas State), Maxwell Lewis( Pepperdine)

[exstatic]

Perspectives and echo chambers are a funny thing... some of you have talked yourselves into believing this draft is something that it's not. You've craped on it so much you're believing your own narratives. Some of you are going to be stunned in 3 years when you realize that this was the best draft we've seen in quite some time.

I don’t have a rating for the draft, overall, but I will say that if the draft goes like the mocks, most of the value, other than Wemby, will be found outside of the top 5.

The biggest echo chamber in all of basketball are NBA mock drafts. Two 20 year olds playing pretty average basketball against high schoolers are rated in the top 5. A former top10 RSCI guard who is playing about the same level of ball is rated in the top 3.

[exstatic]

Black does play 6 more minutes their assist rate and rebound rate are about the same. Adjusted for usage Black has higher turnover rate. Likely that TS and EFG% goes down if they have the same usage. That steal rate is the only one Black has the edge on the stats you provided. He is a better defender for sure, but as a lead guard prospect Keyonte is way more advance.

All other thing being more or less equal, you draft the size. You’re doing a lot of positive projection for Keyonte and a lot of negative projection for Black to get them on that equal footing. A tankathon player comparison tells the real story.

[rankingtear]

All other thing being more or less equal, you draft the size. You’re doing a lot of positive projection for Keyonte and a lot of negative projection for Black to get them on that equal footing. A tankathon player comparison tells the real story.

Man they really are really different players you are the one that brought up stats in your argument. No point comparing the two really. How you can be 100 sure about prospects at this point? Nobody is.

[exstatic]

Man they really are really different players you are the one that brought up stats in your argument. No point comparing the two really. How you can be 100 sure about prospects at this point? Nobody is.

You can’t be sure of an individual prospect, but you can compare archetypes, and I prefer low USG% efficient wings to high USG% small guards. There are just more pathways to a good to great player there. Your mileage may vary.

[Mr. Body]

What's cool is that Anthony Black and Keyonte George are really tight.

With Keyonte, I think you have to hope he gets his shot selection under control and becomes far more efficient. My guess is Scott Drew is fine with him jacking it as it's part of their guard attack. For Spurs' purposes, he's used to a higher usage and you have to hope he either gets that efficiency or he manages to scale down. Is he a player you can stick in a corner on plays and still expect to produce? To me, he's being slept on a bit right now.

Anthony Black is much more of a connector, this SF with guard quickness and PG duties. They're really very different players. Black needs work on his shot, of course, and is worse at the line than you'd want. I like both their free throw rates.

Comparison. Black is the much better defender. George does better with offensive stats.
https://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=anthony-black--keyonte-george

[Drom John]

Behind paywall, but the initial Pelton list is out. A reddit post has the top 10 at:

1) Wemby
2) Brandon Miller
3) Whitmore
4) Wallace
5) Dick
6) Hendricks
7) George
8) Sensabaugh
9) Lively
10) Scoot

Last year Pelton had Kessler as a clear #1. Advanced stats this year has Kessler as the clear #1 rookie.
Assuming Kessler would be available at #20 (as Kessler was), the best Pelton available at #9 was Eason (Sochan second best). The #2 advance stat rookie this year is Eason.

Pelton biggest hits have been Kawhi, Jokic, Van Vleet.
Pelton has his share of misses (Primo #11 overall, Senjun best available at #11).

[exstatic]

Behind paywall, but the initial Pelton list is out. A reddit post has the top 10 at:

1) Wemby
2) Brandon Miller
3) Whitmore
4) Wallace
5) Dick
6) Hendricks
7) George
8) Sensabaugh
9) Lively
10) Scoot

Last year Pelton had Kessler as a clear #1. Advanced stats this year has Kessler as the clear #1 rookie.
Assuming Kessler would be available at #20 (as Kessler was), the best Pelton available at #9 was Eason (Sochan second best). The #2 advance stat rookie this year is Eason.

Pelton biggest hits have been Kawhi, Jokic, Van Vleet.
Pelton has his share of misses (Primo #11 overall, Senjun best available at #11).

No twins, and Scoot at #10. I like it. I’ve been high on Hendricks since about December.

[LeBowen]

Will be interesting if someone trades down for #2 with a team that really wants Scoot.

I wouldn't be against getting Miller and another pick for Scoot.

[exstatic]

I don’t think Scoot is going #2. Even the groupthink go along sites are starting to put Miller there.

[JPB]

I don’t think Scoot is going #2. Even the groupthink go along sites are starting to put Miller there.

Different positions but I can see some teams prefering him Whitmore. I basically do too now. Scoot's season was shutdown on monday probably because he was risking hurting his brand playing more. Officially the G-League shut him down because they believed he showed enough but truth is they're afraid his value could drop and hurt their brand too. He was pretty meh this season and I'm more and more thinking he could really drop in the draft...

Here's the full Pelton commented list. Pretty interesting:

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/insider/story/_/id/35866633/nba-draft-stat-based-projections-top-prospects-ncaa-tournament-elsewhere

[Mr. Body]

I don’t think Scoot is going #2. Even the groupthink go along sites are starting to put Miller there.

Miller was on fire recently. If he faceplants during the tournament the momentum might stall, but I think he'll pick it up.

[Mr. Body]

Behind paywall, but the initial Pelton list is out. A reddit post has the top 10 at:

1) Wemby
2) Brandon Miller
3) Whitmore
4) Wallace
5) Dick
6) Hendricks
7) George
8) Sensabaugh
9) Lively
10) Scoot

Last year Pelton had Kessler as a clear #1. Advanced stats this year has Kessler as the clear #1 rookie.
Assuming Kessler would be available at #20 (as Kessler was), the best Pelton available at #9 was Eason (Sochan second best). The #2 advance stat rookie this year is Eason.

Pelton biggest hits have been Kawhi, Jokic, Van Vleet.
Pelton has his share of misses (Primo #11 overall, Senjun best available at #11).

Appreciate it. I'm still baffled by the Whitmore fandom. He has an excellent physical profile and is a good defender, but maybe it's a me thing and I just want players to be able to pass and playmake at least a little. My fear is he's like those genetic athletic freaks who go high and spinout, like that guy from Arizona, Derrick whatever, Anthony Bennett types, when athletes similar to them are able to take away their usual stuff.

Hendricks I think will be in the top 10.

Sensabaugh I don't believe in at all. He's completely immobile.

Lively gets really nice blocks and other stats but needs a lot of work understanding the rest of defense.

I'm a believer in Dick. I'm a Dick rider.

[exstatic]

Different positions but I can see some teams prefering him Whitmore. I basically do too now. Scoot's season was shutdown on monday probably because he was risking hurting his brand playing more. Officially the G-League shut him down because they believed he showed enough but truth is they're afraid his value could drop and hurt their brand too. He was pretty meh this season and I'm more and more thinking he could really drop in the draft...

Here's the full Pelton commented list. Pretty interesting:

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/insider/story/_/id/35866633/nba-draft-stat-based-projections-top-prospects-ncaa-tournament-elsewhere

Can you cut and paste it for those of us outside the firewall?

[JPB]

Kevin Pelton. Mar 16, 2023.


How do the top prospects in action during the NCAA tournament project statistically? As the college postseason begins in earnest, it's time for the annual first look at my projections for players in the upcoming NBA draft.

This year's crop of college prospects has been overshadowed with four of the top five in the top 100 prospects by ESPN's Jonathan Givony playing elsewhere: Victor Wembanyama in France's LNB Pro A league, Scoot Henderson in G League Ignite and twins Amen and Ausar Thompson in Overtime Elite.

Still, this looks like a relatively strong group of potential one-and-done prospects from a statistical standpoint. In particular, Alabama's Brandon Miller has played well enough to merit strong consideration at No. 2 behind Wembanyama.

My projections translate performance in NCAA Division I and other levels to an NBA equivalent then adjust for age and position to project value over a player's next five seasons. Lastly, I add in ranking in the top 100 for the best consensus projection.

For more on how my projections work and past examples, see here.

Note that I do not have projections for the Thompson twins, currently ranked fourth (Amen) and fifth (Ausar), respectively, in the top 10.

1. Victor Wembanyama

Metropolitans 92 | C
Top 100: No. 1
Stats: No. 18

Consensus: 3.7 WARP

I wouldn't read anything into Wembanyama's stats-only ranking, which is the product of the deep group of college prospects this year. Among No. 1 picks since 2012, he'd rank fifth by the stats-only measure, behind Zion Williamson, Anthony Davis, Karl-Anthony Towns and Ben Simmons. Wembanyama projects as a dominant paint defender, as only Walker Kessler and Mitchell Robinson have had better block projections among drafted players in my database, which includes prospects as far back as 2003. Wembanyama's combination of that skill plus a high projected usage rate (22%, which might undersell things based on his higher-usage role this season as the most valuable player in the French Pro A league) is unprecedented. No player in my database has been projected for even a 5% block rate and 20% usage before Wembanyama.

2. Brandon Miller
Alabama | SF
Top 100: No. 3
Stats: No. 3

Consensus: 3.6 WARP


Givony wrote earlier this week that Miller's productive freshman season at Alabama has created the possibility he could usurp Scoot Henderson as the No. 2 pick. Miller already holds that spot in my projections as one of the best players in the college game. (He is No. 3 in Sports-Reference.com's box plus-minus, behind a pair of upperclassmen.) At 6-foot-9, Miller's skill set is NBA-ready. His 103 3-pointers (at a 40% clip) lead all players ranked in the top 100. He hasn't been quite as accurate inside the arc (51% on 2s), but that's really the only statistical shortcoming. Unfortunately, the more important questions about Miller entering the draft don't reflect his play but instead his level of involvement in the tragic death of Jamea Harris.

3. Cam Whitmore
Villanova | SF
Top 100: No. 7
Stats: No. 2

Consensus: 3.2 WARP

Although Whitmore's return wasn't enough to turn around a Villanova season that ended in the NIT, his production was solid. My model particularly seems to like Whitmore's combination of a high steal rate and accurate shooting inside the arc. No other player in this year's top 100 boasts a projected 2-point rate better than 52% (Whitmore is at 54%) and a projected steal rate of 2.0 per 100 or better. Just three draft picks have hit those marks since 2011: Mikal Bridges, Paul Reed and Zion Williamson.

4. Cason Wallace
Kentucky | G
Top 100: No. 13
Stats: No. 6

Consensus: 2.8 WARP

As a full-time starter, Wallace's offensive production (11.6 points per game and 4.2 assists per game) is modest for a lottery pick. He'll have to improve his shooting in the NBA, having hit 35% from beyond the arc. But Wallace's defensive potential is impressive. His projected 2.1 steals per 100 plays is best among prospects in the top 50 of Givony's rankings.

5. Gradey Dick
Kansas | G/F
Top 100: No. 11
Stats: No. 13

Consensus: 2.6 WARP

Shooting is the primary appeal with Dick, who hit 40% of his 3s while attempting nearly six per game as a freshman. He could increase that rate even more by developing a sidestep move instead of dribbling in for a pull-up 2 after up-faking a defender. For a strong shooter, Dick's game has few glaring weaknesses.

6. Taylor Hendricks
UCF | PF
Top 100: No. 12
Stats: No. 12

Consensus: 2.6 WARP

Hendricks -- the highest-rated recruit ever to commit to UCF -- was productive playing for longtime NBA player Johnny Dawkins. In the non-Wembanyama category, no prospect combines better floor spacing (Hendricks hit 40% of his 3s, attempting 4.6 per game) and shot-blocking potential (Hendricks' 6% block rate ranked second among college prospects in the top 30 of Givony's rankings).

7. Keyonte George
Baylor | SG
Top 100: No. 9
Stats: No. 16

Consensus: 2.6 WARP

George's ability to create shots for himself and others at a physical 6-foot-4 is intriguing. His 31% usage ranks second among freshmen who played at least 500 minutes, per Sports-Reference.com, and George adds a solid 2.8 assists per game. To excel in the NBA, he'll have to become more efficient as a scorer, having hit 35% of his 3s and just 43% inside the arc.

8. Brice Sensabaugh
Ohio State | SF
Top 100: No. 18
Stats: No. 11

Consensus: 2.4 WARP

The one freshman with a higher usage rate than George: Sensabaugh, responsible for a massive 34% of the Buckeyes' plays. Sensabaugh still scored efficiently thanks to 40.5% accuracy on 3s and 4.9 free throw attempts per game. The question is what else Sensabaugh will contribute in the NBA. He averaged just 1.2 assists and less than a combined steal and block per game.

9. Dereck Lively II
Duke | C
Top 100: No. 22
Stats: No. 9

Consensus: 2.3 WARP

Lively's 5.4 PPG would be the fourth-lowest average for a first-round pick in the past 15 years, ahead of Harry Giles III, Daniel Orton and Peyton Watson. In terms of advanced stats, Lively has been much more productive after a slow start. He shot 74% on 2s in conference play (mostly above-the-rim finishes), and his 8% projected block rate trails only Wembanyama among top-100 prospects.

10. Scoot Henderson
G League Ignite | PG
Top 100: No. 2
Stats: No. 60

Consensus: 2.3 WARP

After impressing with his development as a shooter in a pair of exhibitions against Wembanyama's Metropolitans 92 team in October, Henderson didn't play to that level against G League foes before his season was shut down on Monday. During the G League regular season, Henderson shot just 27% from 3-point range, and his 2-point accuracy slumped to 46.5% in 19 games. There's still much to like about Henderson's G League production. His projected assist rate (6.7 per 100 plays) is easily best among top-40 prospects. And Henderson is a strong defensive rebounder -- historically a positive indicator for guards. Physical playmakers have been the best bets to outperform their statistical projections. Still, Henderson's play suggests he shouldn't automatically be considered the second-best prospect after Wembanyama.

[JPB]

11. Jarace Walker
Houston | PF
Top 100: No. 6
Stats: No. 30

Consensus: 2.3 WARP

As a key starter for No. 1 seed Houston, Walker's game should be on full display this month. A strong shot-blocker for 6-foot-8 thanks to his leaping ability, Walker has rejected more than 5% of opponents' 2-point attempts and also boasts a good steal rate for a big man. His efficiency has lagged (.535 true shooting percentage) and will be the pivotal stat for Walker in the NBA.

12. Kyle Filipowski
2023 NBA Draft: Victor Wembanyama

Duke | F/C
Top 100: No. 14
Stats: No. 19

Consensus: 2.3 WARP

The more productive of Duke's two standout freshmen bigs, Filipowski has the most double-doubles (16) of any freshman, per Sports-Reference.com. His advanced stats aren't quite as effusive. Because Filipowski isn't yet an accurate 3-point shooter (30%), his efficiency (.541 true shooting) is middling. He also is a below-average shot-blocker for a college big. Still, Filipowski's strong free throw rate (77%) suggests he should eventually develop 3-point range in the NBA.

13. Nick Smith Jr.
Arkansas | G
Top 100: No. 8
Stats: No. 23

Consensus: 2.3 WARP

It's been an uneven season for Smith, who missed two extended periods and had to fit back into a talent-laden Arkansas team that earned an 8-seed after staggering midseason. Smith has made just 42% of his 2-point attempts, fourth lowest among top 100 prospects. Smith was much more productive in the 2021 Nike Elite Youth Basketball League (EYBL) AAU competition, also included in these projections, ranking third among current top-100 prospects in wins above replacement player that year.

14. Brandin Podziemski
Santa Clara | G/F
Top 100: No. 39
Stats: No. 4

Consensus: 2.2 WARP

Givony recently highlighted Podziemski's rise up draft boards, fueled in part by his strong statistical projections. Podziemski ranks 11th in box plus-minus, second behind Miller among underclassmen, because he has filled up the box score this season with 8.8 rebounds, 3.5 assists and 1.8 steals per game to go with his 19.9 PPG on 44% 3-point shooting.

15. Dariq Whitehead
Duke | SF
Top 100: No. 29
Stats: No. 10

Consensus: 2.2 WARP

Whitehead's stats-only projection owes largely to his strong EYBL play. Coming off a foot fracture in August team workouts that required surgery, Whitehead has hit just 40% of his 2-point attempts as a freshman. Whitehead has been more accurate beyond the arc (41%) and has made an impressive 88.5% of his limited free throw attempts.

16. Anthony Black
Arkansas | SG
Top 100: No. 10
Stats: No. 24

Consensus: 2.2 WARP

Arkansas' lead ball handler at 6-foot-7, Black has the potential to fit well with teams that like size in the backcourt for defensive versatility. As is often the case with players of that ilk, shooting is the question mark for Black. He has hit 31% of his 3s on limited attempts (2.6 per game) and has shot a middling 70% at the foul line.

17. Jett Howard
Michigan | SG
Top 100: No. 16
Stats: No. 20

Consensus: 2.1 WARP

Playing for his dad, longtime NBA standout Juwan Howard, Jett has averaged 14.2 PPG as a freshman with solid production across the board. Howard's 7.3 3-point attempts per game are sixth most among players in the top 100, suggesting his 37% accuracy has come on unusually difficult attempts.

18. Donovan Clingan
UConn | C
Top 100: NR
Stats: No. 1

Consensus: 2.1 WARP

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A name to remember for down the road, Clingan was in Givony's 2024 mock draft; but he doesn't yet appear in the top 100, having averaged just 13.2 minutes per game playing behind veteran center Adama Sanogo on a loaded UConn team. In that time, Clingan was remarkably productive, averaging 22.1 points, 17.7 rebounds and a whopping 5.6 blocks per 40 minutes for the nation's fourth-best player efficiency rating (PER), according to Sports-Reference.com. We'll likely learn more about Clingan as he moves into a larger role down the line.

19. Zach Edey
Purdue | C
Top 100: No. 48
Stats: No. 5

Consensus: 2.1 WARP

The nation's leader in PER? Edey, the most productive player in college basketball, with 22.3 points, 12.8 rebounds and 2.1 blocks per game. How well the 7-foot-4 Edey's game will translate to the NBA, where his post-up game won't likely be quite as effective and teams will attack him in pick-and-roll, remains to be seen. At the very least, there should be a situational role for Edey off the bench, like Boban Marjanovic played in his prime.

20. Will Richard
Florida | SG
Top 100: NR
Stats: No. 7

Consensus: 1.9 WARP

Having transferred from Belmont to play for new Florida coach Todd Golden as a sophomore, Richard improved his efficiency in the SEC, making 40% of his 3-point attempts and 62% of his 2s for an impressive .647 true shooting percentage as a perimeter player. Richard also has racked up steals and blocks at a high rate, a good indicator for pro success.

21. Baylor Scheierman
Creighton | SG
Top 100: No. 40
Stats: No. 14

Consensus: 1.9 WARP

Another transfer, Scheierman has shown his dominance in the Summit League with South Dakota State could translate against better competition. Scheierman has seen his 3-point rate slip from 47% in 2021-22 to 36%, and he plays a lower-usage role on a deep Creighton team, but he remains a valuable contributor. As long as Scheierman proves capable of defending NBA athletes, there's a role for him in the league.

22. Terrance Arceneaux
Houston | SF
Top 100: No. 67
Stats: No. 8

Consensus: 1.8 WARP

Another long-term play, Arceneaux rated as one of the most valuable players in the 2021 EYBL, but he has seen limited opportunities on a veteran-laden Houston team. He made his first career start in the American Athletic Conference title game. Arceneaux's steal and block rates have been impressive in limited run, though he'll have to improve on 26% 3-point shooting thus far.

23. Noah Clowney
Alabama | F/C
Top 100: No. 19
Stats: No. 28

Consensus: 1.7 WARP

The second full-time freshman starter on the top-seeded Crimson Tide, Clowney has NBA-ready physical skills. Taking advantage of Alabama's strong floor spacing, he has made 68% of his 2-point attempts. Although he has played primarily at power forward in the NCAA, Clowney might spend more time at center in the NBA until he develops as a floor spacer, having hit just 28% beyond the arc.

24. Leonard Miller
G League Ignite | F
Top 100: No. 24
Stats: No. 27

Consensus: 1.7 WARP



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It was Miller, not Henderson, who led Ignite draft prospects in scoring during the regular season with 17.8 PPG, to go along with 10.9 RPG. Miller also needs work on his shot, having hit less than a 3 per game at 29.5% accuracy across Showcase Cup and regular-season play. But his willingness to do the dirty work and his shot-creation make Miller a deserving first-round pick.

25. Colby Jones
Xavier | SG
Top 100: 28
Stats: No. 25

Consensus: 1.6 WARP

In his third season, Jones has developed into a 38% 3-point shooter, to go along with a high percentage for a guard inside the arc (58%) and 4.3 assists per game. The one concern is that Jones' free throw shooting (67%) hasn't shown the same improvement.

26. Jordan Hawkins
UConn | SG
Top 100: No. 20
Stats: No. 33

Consensus: 1.5 WARP

Hawkins has perhaps the purest shot in this year's draft, having made 37% of his attempts beyond the arc while attempting 7.6 per game thus far. Hawkins is even better at the line (88%), although his accuracy on 2s (43% over two seasons at UConn) is a little disappointing.

27. Josiah-Jordan James
Tennessee | F/G
Top 100: No. 73
Stats: No. 17

Consensus: 1.5 WARP

Considered a potential one-and-done prospect back in 2019-20, James has instead played four years for Tennessee, dealing with injuries at times. His defensive playmaking is particularly intriguing. James is the only prospect in this year's draft projected for at least two steals per 100 plays and to block 2% of opponent 2-point attempts. Just eight draft picks have reached those marks since 2011, a group highlighted by defensive standouts O.G. Anunoby and Matisse Thybulle.

28. Kel'el Ware
Oregon | C
Top 100: 34
Stats: No. 29

Consensus: 1.4 WARP

Playing behind veteran center N'Faly Dante, Ware has averaged just 15.7 MPG, causing him to drop in the top 100. In that span, Ware has been an impressive shot-blocker, swatting 9% of opponent 2-point attempts. But his 53% 2-point shooting is disappointing for a physical 7-footer.

29. Marcus Sasser
Houston | G
Top 100: No. 35
Stats: No. 32

Consensus: 1.3 WARP

The best player on one of the nation's top teams, Sasser has developed into a dangerous 3-point shooter (40% over the past two seasons on 7.4 attempts per game in that span) as well as a capable playmaker and ball hawking defender. Sasser's ability to return from a groin injury suffered in the American tournament will be a key storyline this month.

30. Terquavion Smith
North Carolina State | PG
Top 100: No. 32
Stats: No. 34

Consensus: 1.3 WARP

After withdrawing from the NBA draft last spring, Smith hasn't enjoyed the kind of a sophomore bounce he might have anticipated. On the plus side, Smith has shown more playmaking ability, doubling his assist average to 4.2 per game. But his accuracy dropped both inside and outside the arc, leaving him with a .494 true shooting percentage that is fifth worst among players in the top 100.

[exstatic]

Thanks, JPB

[Mr. Body]

I think this is a reason why this draft doesn't stand out to me. Comparing Keegan Murray to the three PF-types high in this draft, Taylor Hendricks, Jarace Walker, and Brandon Miller.

Granted, Murray was an old sophomore compared to their freshman years (older in the case of Miller). But he blows them away in production and advanced stats. Absolutely blows them away.

And people downplayed Murray last year, scoffed that he'd be picked #4. I think he'd be a shoo-in for #2 this year, honestly.

https://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=taylor-hendricks--brandon-miller--jarace-walker--keegan-murray

[mo7888]

I don’t have a rating for the draft, overall, but I will say that if the draft goes like the mocks, most of the value, other than Wemby, will be found outside of the top 5.

The biggest echo chamber in all of basketball are NBA mock drafts. Two 20 year olds playing pretty average basketball against high schoolers are rated in the top 5. A former top10 RSCI guard who is playing about the same level of ball is rated in the top 3.

I agree with you on where the value is. I've got 2-9 in the same tier, so if you can move out of the 2nd or 3rd pick and get another in the top 9 + additional assets then that's where your value is outside of Wembanyama.

[heyheymymy]

Zach Edey 21/15 in the tragic upset

Gonna be a score for someone mid second round imo

[exstatic]

Zach Edey 21/15 in the tragic upset

Gonna be a score for someone mid second round imo

He’s getting some first round love. The problem is that he’ll probably get played off the floor in the NBA. Paint mismatches aren’t as important or lucrative as 3 point mismatches.

[heyheymymy]

JH-S and TJ-D on showcase now for Indiana

[heyheymymy]

I'm not calling this or anything, but I wonder if Kansas will struggle with SEC athleticism against Arkansas tomorrow? And with all these upsets, the fact Kansas was just champs in 2022, makes Jayhawks a decent sacrificial lamb for excitement. ARK is a pretty well supported fanbase so you won't lose much of Kansas' pull/hotel booking impact imo tbh by advancing the Razorbacks instead. Kansas is def the better team don't get me wrong though. But is ARK complete enough to compete?

[exstatic]

I'm not calling this or anything, but I wonder if Kansas will struggle with SEC athleticism against Arkansas tomorrow? And with all these upsets, the fact Kansas was just champs in 2022, makes Jayhawks a decent sacrificial lamb for excitement. ARK is a pretty well supported fanbase so you won't lose much of Kansas' pull/hotel booking impact imo tbh by advancing the Razorbacks instead. Kansas is def the better team don't get me wrong though. But is ARK complete enough to compete?

Are you saying that the tournament is rigged or fixed?

[heyheymymy]

I wouldn't put it past the NCAA but I'm sure it's just one factor

[DPG21920]

Thanks for posting that list above ^

I do wonder if SA might be able to snag another lottery pick here…they have lots of extra picks they can dangle if there’s a player they love that falls to late lottery

[heyheymymy]

https://www.reddit.com/r/CollegeBasketball/comments/11ubb8c/the_whiteboard_in_purdues_locker_room_after_their/

https://i.imgur.com/SCxdngc.png

[spurs1990]

Starting to think we either get Duncan or saddled with Keith Van Horn and Tim Thomas. Henderson dropping is a twist. I guess he’d be Antonio Daniels keeping with the ‘97 projections

[Mr. Body]

Starting to think we either get Duncan or saddled with Keith Van Horn and Tim Thomas. Henderson dropping is a twist. I guess he’d be Antonio Daniels keeping with the ‘97 projections

Wembanyama isn't in the same category as Duncan. The rest of the players are probably better than Keith Van Horn and Ron Mercer.

[ace3g]

I'm all in for Anthony Black because he is from Duncanville, Texas.

[mo7888]

Tyrese Proctor's outside shot reminds me of Derrick White.

[Mr. Body]

Getting ready to watch futures Spurs Anthony Black and Gradey Dick going against each other here in a sec.

[Mr. Body]

Tyrese Proctor's outside shot reminds me of Derrick White.

... is that good?

[Degoat]

Either Nick Smith is hurt or the Arkansas coaches hates him lol gets subbed out every minute it seems like

[exstatic]

Either Nick Smith is hurt or the Arkansas coaches hates him lol gets subbed out every minute it seems like

Or, option three: he sucks, and has been coasting off his HS rankings for a year.

[Mr. Body]

Nick Smith is terrible. I wouldn't draft him at any point. I hope he stays and develops basketball skills.

[Mr. Body]

Also, I keep seeing people defending Dariq Whitehead and supporting him even in late lotto. That guy blows, too.

Idea: disregard h.s. ranking because once you start college they don't matter anymore and never will.

[Mr. Body]

This draft sucks so bad Gradey Dick and Anthony Black might wind up in the top 10.

[duncan2150]

Or, option three: he sucks, and has been coasting off his HS rankings for a year.

Or he's just having a bad season, dealing with injuries and adjusting to another level.

Yes Mr Body if he's not showing some things during the tournament, maybe returning is not a bad option.

[duncan2150]

Also, I keep seeing people defending Dariq Whitehead and supporting him even in late lotto. That guy blows, too.

Idea: disregard h.s. ranking because once you start college they don't matter anymore and never will.

I think you're wrong on something Mr Body, it's not the ranking it's the film, the games. Whitehead was a really really good prospect coming from HS. He was injured a lot this year, was not bad in the tournament...
Same for Smith, that's where i don't agree with both of you making a statement too early on both.

[Mr. Body]

I think you're wrong on something Mr Body, it's not the ranking it's the film, the games. Whitehead was a really really good prospect coming from HS. He was injured a lot this year, was not bad in the tournament...
Same for Smith, that's where i don't agree with both of you making a statement too early on both.

All I'm doing is assessing the college basketball player. High school is terrible and these players dominate because they're playing against kids who are 5'7". It's good to get them recruited, but NCAA is vastly a step up. Disregard the high school stuff. Like I said, it's completely over.

Nick Smith can't get separation, he's constantly taking tough shots and can't hit them. Even when he's open he can't hit them -- this last, I expect to get better. But he's also a skinny, small guy who isn't terribly quick. If you came into any of this season and asked you to pick out the best players in any game he's been in, he's not one of them.

Again, I truly do not care about high school rankings. It's like recruiting community theater thespians into Broadway, finding out a number of them suck, and then saying, "But they were good in Poughkeepsie." Yeah, but this is big time, sweetheart.

EDIT: And NSJ's handles are pretty bad, tbh.

[Mr. Body]

So, yeah, I could give a shit about Whitehead's rankings, or film, or whatever. He's barely passable right now, a guy who is a spot-up shooter, does nothing else, and might develop in college down the line. Not worth a draft pick.

[duncan2150]

One thing is sure they could benefit from another year in College.

Speaking about the game, Black and Smith are not that good..... Council and Walsh doing the work for Arkansas.

[mo7888]

... is that good?

Good question... I didn't really mean it as a positive or negative... I do like the kid though... 18 years old, can drive with either hand, not afraid to shoot it, has a good FT percentage...

[mo7888]

Or he's just having a bad season, dealing with injuries and adjusting to another level.

Yes Mr Body if he's not showing some things during the tournament, maybe returning is not a bad option.

No top 10 pick is returning and risking injury..

[Mr. Body]

No top 10 pick is returning and risking injury..

Smith Jr will defintely stay in.

[duncan2150]

No top 10 pick is returning and risking injury..

Yes both will not return imo, they know they have talent ( maybe they're wrong lol). That's why i said they " could" but imo they'll not.

[baseline bum]

In short bulletpoints, what do people like about him? Is he the next Chris Paul?
When I watched a few minutes of an ignite game, he didn't look fast or athletic or Steph-esque.

He looked great in that first game ESPN broadcast when he played against Wembanyama's team. But seeing how bad a shooter he has become over a full season yeah hard to see him at #2 now.

[rankingtear]

Sochan, Branham and Wes are carrying their team in March last year, the freshmen this year are underperforming so far.

[Mr. Body]

Sochan, Branham and Wes are carrying their team in March last year, the freshmen this year are underperforming so far.

I don't think you could pick out the supposed first round draft picks in this tournament. It's been that way all year.

[rankingtear]

Dick vs Black right now.

[exstatic]

One thing is sure they could benefit from another year in College.

Speaking about the game, Black and Smith are not that good..... Council and Walsh doing the work for Arkansas.

Black is actually really good. He’s not scoring a ton, but Sochan scored 9 ppg at Baylor. I’ve seen a block, a deflection, and a steal in the second half. Guys who can affect the game without the ball in their hands are valuable. He looks like he belongs in the game, unlike Smith.

[Degoat]

With how underperforming the projected one and done guys have done in the tournament thus far, gotta imagine the Thompson twins feel better about skipping out on college lol

[exstatic]

With how underperforming the projected one and done guys have done in the tournament thus far, gotta imagine the Thompson twins feel better about skipping out on college lol

They won’t, down the line. Nothing they have done is as difficult as playing one NCAA D1 game.

[Mr. Body]

Black is actually really good. He’s not scoring a ton, but Sochan scored 9 ppg at Baylor. I’ve seen a block, a deflection, and a steal in the second half. Guys who can affect the game without the ball in their hands are valuable. He looks like he belongs in the game, unlike Smith.

I would love to have Black on this team. He's an excellent connector and would help our perimeter defense tremendously.

[exstatic]

I would love to have Black on this team. He's an excellent connector and would help our perimeter defense tremendously.

He’s been GLUED to Grady Dick. Kept him pretty quiet..

[duncan2150]

Black is actually really good. He’s not scoring a ton, but Sochan scored 9 ppg at Baylor. I’ve seen a block, a deflection, and a steal in the second half. Guys who can affect the game without the ball in their hands are valuable. He looks like he belongs in the game, unlike Smith.

He was not good in the first half but i like what he's doing in this second half yes. Don't count on him to score but managing the floor, defending he's good.

The difference between him and sochan is that i could saw more upside offensively for the second one.

[duncan2150]

I would love to have Black on this team. He's an excellent connector and would help our perimeter defense tremendously.

The question is how high you're ready to grab Black ? 6 or 7 ?

[Thomas82]

Wembanyama isn't in the same category as Duncan. The rest of the players are probably better than Keith Van Horn and Ron Mercer.

Maybe not, but I totally understand the analogy and the point he was making.

[Mr. Body]

The question is how high you're ready to grab Black ? 6 or 7 ?

I don't know. I just don't know what to do with the Thompsons, Whitmore, etc., probably Hendricks, too. I think they'll go before him and I do think others will go before him, too. It's a weird year. I think Sochan was better last year and went 9. Right now I'll just say I like him as a player and would love him on the Spurs. He's a gamer, he has a lot of skills, he just doesn't burst out of the box. I do see a long-term plus player handling the ball and playing D. Just no idea what you do if the Spurs get picks 4-5-6-7, say.

[Mr. Body]

Oh, meant to say, I like Jordan Walsh. A SRP guy or dunno if he stays. Heady player who does a lot of stuff, not sure about a nba guy though.

[Mr. Body]

He’s been GLUED to Grady Dick. Kept him pretty quiet..

Often he plays the point-of-attack guard. Stuck him on Dick I suppose to keep him out of foul trouble and to make sure Dick didn't go off. Kansas didn't have a ton of outside shooting otherwise.

[Russ]

The question is how high you're ready to grab Black ? 6 or 7 ?

The Spurs could be prisoners to the esteemed Pick #2.

And trading down always sounds great in theory but rarely attracts a willing partner in reality.

[Mr. Body]

The Spurs could be prisoners to the esteemed Pick #2.

And trading down always sounds great in theory but rarely attracts a willing partner in reality.

The Jay Williams Memorial Cursed #2 pick. Honestly, this board has been shitting on the Thompson twins and Scoot, but they are good prospects and possibly very good. Trading down isn't impossible - it's happened before, certainly - but definitely harder than we'd perhaps want.

[scott]

Just so wild to me how we're supposed to evaluate these supposed top 10 picks who are having very little impact in their tournament games.

Here are Tankathon's players in the top 12 and in the tournament and how they've fared so far:



Brandon Miller: 0 pts in first game



Jarace Walker: 16 pts, 6 reb, 2 blk in first game; 2 pt, 3 reb at halftime of second game, down by 10 to the 9 seed



Anthony Black: 12 pts on 4-12, 6 reb, 1 ast, 3 stl, 1 blk in game 1; 4 pts on 1-6, 4 reb, 2 ast, 1 stl, 1 blk in game 2



Gradey Dick: 19 on 7-13, 11 reb, 5 ast, 3 stl in game 1; 7 pts on 3-9, 7 reb, 1 ast in game 2
Nick Smith Jr: 6 pts on 2-10, 1 steal in game 1; 0 pts 1 reb, 1 ast in game 2
Keyonte George: 9 pts on 2-9, 3 reb, 1 ast, 1 stl in game 1
Cason Wallace: 7 pts on 2-11; 4 reb; 5 ast; 2 stl in game 1


Only Waker, Black and Dick have put up any performances that even remotely catch the eye, and for 1 game only

[exstatic]

The Spurs could be prisoners to the esteemed Pick #2.

And trading down always sounds great in theory but rarely attracts a willing partner in reality.

Everything has to go right, assuming no Wemby. We have to get 2, Orlando has to be at 5, or jump to 4, and Chicago has to stay put. Currently, that would be 2 for 4 or 5 + 7. I’d do it in a heartbeat, because I’d bet that neither twin is in the Spurs top 10, and Scoot might barely be. They would probably get the player they value at 2 at pick 5, and then 7 would be a freebie.

[Mr. Body]

Everything has to go right, assuming no Wemby. We have to get 2, Orlando has to be at 5, or jump to 4, and Chicago has to stay put. Currently, that would be 2 for 4 or 5 + 7. I’d do it in a heartbeat, because I’d bet that neither twin is in the Spurs top 10, and Scoot might barely be. They would probably get the player they value at 2 at pick 5, and then 7 would be a freebie.

I think you can trade to another team for their somewhat later pick and then later draft capital. Orlando isn't the only route.

[Degoat]

What’s gonna be interesting is say the spurs land the #4 pick… it’s the question that is asked every year do you draft best player available or fit? Amen Thompson most likely is the best available but do we do that when we’re trying to develop Vassell and Branham who play the same position.

[heyheymymy]

Jarace Walker already has 3 fouls

10 left in the 2nd

[heyheymymy]

That 2023 draft combine is going to have to fill in a lot of gaps

[exstatic]

I think you can trade to another team for their somewhat later pick and then later draft capital. Orlando isn't the only route.

Probably the best one, though. Would be 2 lottery picks, and I’m not sure you get that anywhere else.

[exstatic]

What’s gonna be interesting is say the spurs land the #4 pick… it’s the question that is asked every year do you draft best player available or fit? Amen Thompson most likely is the best available but do we do that when we’re trying to develop Vassell and Branham who play the same position.

My thought is that neither twin is in their top 10. They’re hype bait.

[Degoat]

My thought is that neither twin is in their top 10. They’re hype bait.

Maybe so, it’s still early on but they at least have upside similar to Sharpe last year lol

[Mr. Body]

Jarace Walker already has 3 fouls

10 left in the 2nd



He's been showing some good stuff, imo. Nine boards, five blocks. Not shooting well, but hit a three. You see a big, physical PF who can grow into something even more. He's like built as Duren was last year. Some of these nineteen year-olds are ridiculous.

I still question that kind of PF archetype in the modern NBA, though.

[Mr. Body]

Probably the best one, though. Would be 2 lottery picks, and I’m not sure you get that anywhere else.

Yeah. I'm just saying that it's not the only route. Honestly think if the Spurs get a 2-4 and don't really want it, there will be visitors.

[Mr. Body]

My thought is that neither twin is in their top 10. They’re hype bait.

Agree, mostly. But the point is where they will actually be drafted. I don't see Amen not going in the top 5 and Ausar not going in the top 8-10 right now.

[exstatic]

Yeah. I'm just saying that it's not the only route. Honestly think if the Spurs get a 2-4 and don't really want it, there will be visitors.

I think that only 2-3 are hot items. I’d rather have 2, and negotiate with 4 or lower. They may have a player they want that they’re not sure will be there at 3.

[Mr. Body]

I think that only 2-3 are hot items. I’d rather have 2, and negotiate with 4 or lower. They may have a player they want that they’re not sure will be there at 3.

The first four will be something like:

1. Wembanyama
2. Henderson
3. Brandon Miller
4. Amen Thompson

There will probably be teams that really really want Amen Thompson.

[JPB]

I honestly don't think the Tournament performances matter that much as far as evaluating players for NBA GMs. It does, but they really focus on the potential they believe they see in those young guys and how they could develop it.

[mo7888]

Everything has to go right, assuming no Wemby. We have to get 2, Orlando has to be at 5, or jump to 4, and Chicago has to stay put. Currently, that would be 2 for 4 or 5 + 7. I’d do it in a heartbeat, because I’d bet that neither twin is in the Spurs top 10, and Scoot might barely be. They would probably get the player they value at 2 at pick 5, and then 7 would be a freebie.

I like Scoot alot, but not more that 4 + 7. I'd do that deal..

[JPB]

The first four will be something like:

1. Wembanyama
2. Henderson
3. Brandon Miller
4. Amen Thompson

There will probably be teams that really really want Amen Thompson.

Assuming off court issues don't prevent it, Miller is probably #2 now in most GMs eyes.

[mo7888]

I honestly don't think the Tournament performances matter that much as far as evaluating players for NBA GMs. It does, but they really focus on the potential they believe they see in those young guys and how they could develop it.

This... Most of the freshman guys take a back seat to older players with seniority in the college game. Take the Kansas Arkansas game, the 3 guys that ate going to make the most money and have the best pro careers barely made a dent as coaches leaned on their upperclassmen...

[Ariel]

What’s gonna be interesting is say the spurs land the #4 pick… it’s the question that is asked every year do you draft best player available or fit? Amen Thompson most likely is the best available but do we do that when we’re trying to develop Vassell and Branham who play the same position.
I think the trouble starts at 5. I'm comfortable taking any of Wemby (duh), Brandon Miller (strictly on bball), Scoot (yeah, I've cool down on him as a potential franchise player due to finishing & shooting issues plus his game has stagnated somewhat, but I still believe in his athleticism, ball handling and play making skills), and Cam Whitmore (last high upside guy with solid floor). From then on it's all out gambles (Thompson twins) or lower upside (Anthony Black, Gradey Dick, Jarace Walker, Keyonte George, etc.). I'm all for trading down if the circumstances are favorable.

[Ariel]

The first four will be something like:

1. Wembanyama
2. Henderson
3. Brandon Miller
4. Amen Thompson
I think Detroit, Charlotte, Portland, Indiana go for Miller at no. 2, while Houston, Orlando, Washington and us go for Scoot.

There will probably be teams that really really want Amen Thompson.
Starting with Portland (last year Mike Schmitz took the third Thompson twin), Houston, Washington and Orlando. I very much doubt he falls outside the top 10, there's always someone who can't help to bite.

[Mr. Body]

I There's more chatter about Ausar, too, by those who see his defense and shooting as better than his brother. We're still seeing those in mocks and I really don't see that changing a ton. So, yes, thinking Miller goes 2...

1. Wembanyama
2. Miller
3. Henderon
4. Amen
5. Jarace?
6. Ausar

Just saying that the athletic profile of the twins are so salivating that teams will want them. If the Spurs get, like, a 5 or 6, they could swap down two or three spots for a player they still value/value more and draw some additional draft capital in this draft or otherwise.

One hidden value are those salary structures. Do the Spurs value taking a player they like at 8 or 9 rather than a swing at an athletic uncertainty at 3 or 4? Yes, I'd say.

Anyway, the point is that I don't think it's solely the 2 or even just the 2 or 3 that could be attractive to other teams. Would it suck to see the team trade down if they don't get Wemby? Sure, but bigger picture it's probably a smart potential move, if it's available.

[Ariel]

Miller should go for a couple of easy baskets to gain confidence, rather than jacking up threes.

[Mr. Body]

Miller should go for a couple of easy baskets to gain confidence, rather than jacking up threes.

It's the disease of modern-day basketball. Threes aren't falling? Jack up more threes.

[BackHome]

Julian Reese SF - Is having a really good series so far

[tim_duncan_fan]

Why is Miller 20 years old as a freshman?

[exstatic]

The first four will be something like:

1. Wembanyama
2. Henderson
3. Brandon Miller
4. Amen Thompson

There will probably be teams that really really want Amen Thompson.

Not enough to trade up for him knowing we won’t pick him. I think there are big markets for 2 and 3, and then it gets murkier, and certainly not two lottery picks for a return. If you can’t get Wemby, 2 is your best bet. You will have teams wanting Miller, and teams wanting Scoot, a larger bidding field.

[Mr. Body]

Not enough to trade up for him knowing we won’t pick him. I think there are big markets for 2 and 3, and then it gets murkier, and certainly not two lottery picks for a return. If you can’t get Wemby, 2 is your best bet. You will have teams wanting Miller, and teams wanting Scoot, a larger bidding field.

That's not how it works. And I just explained to you why further picks might be attractive. It's happened plenty of times.

[Russ]

The Jay Williams Memorial Cursed #2 pick. Honestly, this board has been shitting on the Thompson twins and Scoot, but they are good prospects and possibly very good. Trading down isn't impossible - it's happened before, certainly - but definitely harder than we'd perhaps want.

The problem is if the player you want may be going from #2 to #8, getting him at #2 may actually be worse because of the extra salary you'll pay and the possibility that it will all (that #2 overall thing) go to his head.

If that's the case, I don't know why you'd try to "trade into" that situation and give up multiple assets to do so.

[scott]

tbh, gun or no gun, Miller might be too good to pass up at #2

[Degoat]

I just don’t anticipate the spurs trading back from their pick even if it isn’t a top 3 tbh. I think they’d just reach for the guy they like in the draft at their pick if it’s 4-6.

[rankingtear]

Can't believe the best scoring prospect is in this game.

[BackHome]

One thing I am torn is that I really like Sochan and I wonder if he would be better being kind of our Point Forward and having the ball in his hands vs getting a traditional PG? Yes, that all depends if we don't get Wemb. if that happens I am kind of torn who to get the more I look the more I am not liking what I am seeing maybe looking to deep?

Miller - Just as a basketball player I really like him as I think he has a very high floor and has some upside and would fit in perfectly with Sochan and Vassell. He would give us that 3 pointing shooting we desperately need plus he is also a very good rebounder which we need so a very good fit....But he got other issues..............

Henderson - Exstatic has me guessing myself with him but I think I am with him I don't know if Scoot can match his hype and could just be an athletic 6'2 PG - outside shooting is a legit concern?

Amen/Ausur - Same as Henderson as far as shooting and I agree with Mr. Body I think when it's all done Ausur will have a much better NBA career then Amen. Not able to shoot kills almost every player unless you a shot blocking/rebounding big and I don't know if Amen will every be able to shoot?

Whitmore - I think is a better Keldon has a nice floor but I don't see him with a high upside what you see is what you get - but still would slide in as starting SF pretty quick.

Black - He screams Spurs and if it's any other year then this I think we would be looking at getting him but if we drafting in top 4 that is to rich for me. He brings a lot of little stuff but you got to score in the NBA and is offensive game has some issues

[scott]

My pessimistic view of Black is that you're essentially going to use a Top 10 pick for a younger version of a guy you just traded for the #24 pick and a future swap (Derrick).

With that said, I still kind of like the idea of getting Whitmore and Black if we don't get Wemby or Miller (really warming up to him, even with the gun issue)

[Atl Spur]

Houston really needs scoot, Detroit / Miller , S.A any of the three ( add Wemby )

[BacktoBasics]

My pessimistic view of Black is that you're essentially going to use a Top 10 pick for a younger version of a guy you just traded for the #24 pick and a future swap (Derrick).

With that said, I still kind of like the idea of getting Whitmore and Black if we don't get Wemby or Miller (really warming up to him, even with the gun issue)

Black is not White. Look at Black through Giddey goggles. But with more defensive and intangibles. I like Black. A lot. But I get that he’s a stretch inside the top 5 but I’d love to see him in a Spurs jersey.

Pace, floor general, adaptable when his offense isn’t there, defense oriented… I really like Blacks potential as a team player.

[scott]

I think a lot of folks might owe Brandon Miller an apology. He’s going #2.

https://patch.com/alabama/tuscaloosa/new-evidence-provides-compelling-account-bama-hoops-murder-case

[Big Empty]

Why is Miller 20 years old as a freshman?
That caught my eye too. Was he stoopit and held back a few years? Red flag

[duncan2150]

I There's more chatter about Ausar, too, by those who see his defense and shooting as better than his brother. We're still seeing those in mocks and I really don't see that changing a ton. So, yes, thinking Miller goes 2...

1. Wembanyama
2. Miller
3. Henderon
4. Amen
5. Jarace?
6. Ausar

Just saying that the athletic profile of the twins are so salivating that teams will want them. If the Spurs get, like, a 5 or 6, they could swap down two or three spots for a player they still value/value more and draw some additional draft capital in this draft or otherwise.

One hidden value are those salary structures. Do the Spurs value taking a player they like at 8 or 9 rather than a swing at an athletic uncertainty at 3 or 4? Yes, I'd say.

Anyway, the point is that I don't think it's solely the 2 or even just the 2 or 3 that could be attractive to other teams. Would it suck to see the team trade down if they don't get Wemby? Sure, but bigger picture it's probably a smart potential move, if it's available.

Ausar shot mechanics are way better than Amen, i think he could go higher than the predictions.

I'm starting to think Jarace will be the guy if we end up with a pick 6 or 7. Really good defender, can shoot, drive, i like the fact that he could play the 3-4-5. The lineup with Sochan could be crazy. The ceilling may look lower than others but i have a lot certainties with him.

https://twitter.com/DraftExpress/status/1637280552792276992


Black is not White. Look at Black through Giddey goggles. But with more defensive and intangibles. I like Black. A lot. But I get that he’s a stretch inside the top 5 but I’d love to see him in a Spurs jersey.

Pace, floor general, adaptable when his offense isn’t there, defense oriented… I really like Blacks potential as a team player.

Agreed overall but i don't see Black as good as Giddey, the passing of Giddey was off the charts. i'm ok with you he could be a real good pick at the end of the top 10 but not higher. I see him more as a really good role player than a potential 1-2-3 best player on a team.



Why is Miller 20 years old as a freshman?

Maybe because he was born at the end of the 2002 year ( 22th of november).

[Maddog]

Why is Miller 20 years old as a freshman?

4 current Spurs are younger than him
He'll be 21 in November

[Atl Spur]

He has a late birthday and probably failed / held back a grade. He and Gradey Dick are on the same boat minus the failing and/or being held back. ( both have late birthdays / started kindergarten at 6 I’m suspecting )

[Ariel]

4 current Spurs are younger than him
He'll be 21 in November
The majority of his senior year in High School he was 20
He's about 4 months older than Wesley and 6 months older than Sochan, Branham and Barlow. In basketball terms I don't think it's very relevant, it's not like his success in College is predicated on exploiting younger and less physically imposing guys. His development timeline was likely behind his class for some reason, but I wouldn't be too harsh on this, he's been extremely successful in his freshman season, and that'd still be impressive if we were talking about a sophomore, when that makes more of a difference than actual age (within certain limits, of course).

[Mr. Body]

Agreed overall but i don't see Black as good as Giddey, the passing of Giddey was off the charts. i'm ok with you he could be a real good pick at the end of the top 10 but not higher. I see him more as a really good role player than a potential 1-2-3 best player on a team.


I agree that Giddey is better overall than Black. Even as young as he is, Giddey is a really heady player who does so much well. He was playing pro at an early age. The one place Blacck gets him is as a defender. I'm not going to say Black has All-Defense abilities, but he's a very good perimeter defender who will likely only get better. I admit it was his passing that first caught my eye - and he does make really good passes, but they aren't god-tier or anything. I've since come to value his defense more. His playmaking will be good at the next level with more spacing. It's his defense. If we have any prayer of containing the types of guards who scorch us, the Kyries and SGA's, at least slow us down, he's the sort of defender we need.

[Maddog]

He's about 4 months older than Wesley and 6 months older than Sochan, Branham and Barlow. In basketball terms I don't think it's very relevant, it's not like his success in College is predicated on exploiting younger and less physically imposing guys. His development timeline was likely behind his class for some reason, but I wouldn't be too harsh on this, he's been extremely successful in his freshman season, and that'd still be impressive if we were talking about a sophomore, when that makes more of a difference than actual age (within certain limits, of course).

I actually don't think the age is a huge issue- but something to keep in mind.
I'm far from a draft expert- but from what I've seen he's probably the clear # 2 or 3.
However there are some things that give you pause.

[scott]

I agree that Giddey is better overall than Black. Even as young as he is, Giddey is a really heady player who does so much well. He was playing pro at an early age. The one place Blacck gets him is as a defender. I'm not going to say Black has All-Defense abilities, but he's a very good perimeter defender who will likely only get better. I admit it was his passing that first caught my eye - and he does make really good passes, but they aren't god-tier or anything. I've since come to value his defense more. His playmaking will be good at the next level with more spacing. It's his defense. If we have any prayer of containing the types of guards who scorch us, the Kyries and SGA's, at least slow us down, he's the sort of defender we need.

To me, this still sounds like Derrick, who is a good passer and an exceptional defender. What are some of Black's other qualities that set his potential apart from where Derrick is?

[Ariel]

To me, this still sounds like Derrick, who is a good passer and an exceptional defender. What are some of Black's other qualities that set his potential apart from where Derrick is?
I agree. We're splitting hairs here. The point is Black is likely a very good player, but an archetype that can be had later in the draft, via trade, or in free agency. I have no problem using a second pick later in the lottery on him, but he shouldn't be our target with a very high pick. But if luck doesn't go our way and we end up picking at 7 (worst case scenario IMO), I'd be ok taking him if all higher upside prospects are gone.

[spurs1990]

Could be a Shabazz Muhammad strategy where Miller was held back a year to excel against young opponents. But graduating HS at 19 is suspect even if you’re a Nov birthday

[BackHome]

Most guys in college ball are like in early 20's and they got guys playing that are 23 even 26 years old so being 20 not much of a concern if you can show you have talent. But if your 20 years old and can't shoot free throws or hit the 3 ball and your not a center or PF then you definitely suspect as far as being NBA ready.

[exstatic]

To me, this still sounds like Derrick, who is a good passer and an exceptional defender. What are some of Black's other qualities that set his potential apart from where Derrick is?

He’s 6’7” and will be 19 when drafted. Derrick was 23. It makes a difference when you get them that much younger.

[Mr. Body]

I agree. We're splitting hairs here. The point is Black is likely a very good player, but an archetype that can be had later in the draft, via trade, or in free agency. I have no problem using a second pick later in the lottery on him, but he shouldn't be our target with a very high pick. But if luck doesn't go our way and we end up picking at 7 (worst case scenario IMO), I'd be ok taking him if all higher upside prospects are gone.

Last year's draft, Anthony Black is in the convo for the late lottery. This year's draft, he's there in the mid lottery. It's just that bad of a draft.

That's said, yeah, he's 19, he has great size with room to grow his game.

[mo7888]

Last year's draft, Anthony Black is in the convo for the late lottery. This year's draft, he's there in the mid lottery. It's just that bad of a draft.

That's said, yeah, he's 19, he has great size with room to grow his game.

I think he'd go 8 last year ahead of Daniels.

[TD 21]

With the caveat that I feel this way most years, but specifically from a Spurs perspective, I'm not thrilled with anyone outside of the top 3.

Henderson vs Miller is an interesting debate. It basically comes down to do you prefer the offensive "engine" that's an archetype that's difficult to win with at the highest level or the more malleable piece (reminds me of Granger), but someone who's probably more of a finisher?

If a Miller scenario, Johnson would immediately become expendable, possibly as the linchpin of a package to get another top 10 pick and select a creator.

[mo7888]

With the caveat that I feel this way most years, but specifically from a Spurs perspective, I'm not thrilled with anyone outside of the top 3.

Henderson vs Miller is an interesting debate. It basically comes down to do you prefer the offensive "engine" that's an archetype that's difficult to win with at the highest level or the more malleable piece (reminds me of Granger), but someone who's probably more of a finisher?

If a Miller scenario, Johnson would immediately become expendable, possibly as the linchpin of a package to get another top 10 pick and select a creator.

So Miller + (Black, Amen, or NSJ) or KJ + Scoot

That's an interesting proposition. I think I'd go KJ + Scoot..

[Ariel]

Another option would be using one of those future picks to land a second lottery pick. Say Anthony Black slips past 10. This is a possible scenario: Wemby, Miller, Scoot, Whitmore, Amen & Ausar Thompson, Jarace Walker, Keyonte George, Gradey Dick, Cason Wallace and a few other guys might push him out (we've seen it with Haliburton, so it's definitely possible).
Say a team such as New Orleans is on the clock at 11/12 or whatever, and they have more than enough play making/defensive wings with a shot in need of work. Then I don't think it would be out of the question trade for said pick using that of Toronto we got for Poeltl, which may be lower but also as high as 7th for 3 years, and Toronto isn't a lock to improve. Maybe throw in a few 2nd rounders... even Charlotte's, if it comes to that.
In such a case we'd be speeding up the timeline by adding another youngster now, which shouldn't be too bad considering Langford & McDermott are likely on their way out, and I think there's enough playing time to go around, especially considering I could totally see Pop using Black & Sochan lineups with no PG (really interesting alternative IMO).
You may say no way they move a certain lottery pick for an uncertain future one, but Charlotte moved no. 13 for a future Milwaukee pick which looks much, much worse than Toronto's, so it's not out of the question. I'd really like to see something like that.

[TD 21]

So Miller + (Black, Amen, or NSJ) or KJ + Scoot

That's an interesting proposition. I think I'd go KJ + Scoot..

I'd lean that way too. Not that I'd necessarily view Johnson as a long term piece in that scenario either, it's just harder to get the "engine" and if he becomes the player he's projected to be, this would have a chance to be a Grizzlies-like accelerated re-build.

[Ariel]

I'd lean that way too. Not that I'd necessarily view Johnson as a long term piece in that scenario either, it's just harder to get the "engine" and if he becomes the player he's projected to be, this would have a chance to be a Grizzlies-like accelerated re-build.
Maybe... then again, imagine a Black (6'7"), Vassell (6'5), Brandon Miller (6'9") & Sochan (6'8") lineup (with your center of choice and Branham/KJ as scoring options off the bench)... all young, long, switchable, capable of defending, with enough playmaking in Sochan and Black that you don't need a traditional PG, and enough shooting in Vassell and Miller plus off the bench and maybe your 5. And, of course, you'd still have plenty of chips to pick/trade for a star if/when one becomes available. That could be an exciting, modern brand of basketball.

[duncan2150]

I agree that Giddey is better overall than Black. Even as young as he is, Giddey is a really heady player who does so much well. He was playing pro at an early age. The one place Blacck gets him is as a defender. I'm not going to say Black has All-Defense abilities, but he's a very good perimeter defender who will likely only get better. I admit it was his passing that first caught my eye - and he does make really good passes, but they aren't god-tier or anything. I've since come to value his defense more. His playmaking will be good at the next level with more spacing. It's his defense. If we have any prayer of containing the types of guards who scorch us, the Kyries and SGA's, at least slow us down, he's the sort of defender we need.

The defense is really good like yesterday against Kansas. His passing is pretty decent, i like how he takes care off the ball.
The scoring will determine Black ceilling imo.

[TD 21]

Maybe... then again, imagine a Black (6'7"), Vassell (6'5), Brandon Miller (6'9") & Sochan (6'8") lineup (with your center of choice and Branham/KJ as scoring options off the bench)... all young, long, switchable, capable of defending, with enough playmaking in Sochan and Black that you don't need a traditional PG, and enough shooting in Vassell and Miller plus off the bench and maybe your 5. And, of course, you'd still have plenty of chips to pick/trade for a star if/when one becomes available. That could be an exciting, modern brand of basketball.

No dynamic creator/anyone to put pressure on the rim. I specifically hate the Sochan/Black fit offensively.

The whole "no true PG" notion sounds nice in theory, but only works if you have a big wing or big to provide elite play making.

[Ariel]

No dynamic creator/anyone to put pressure on the rim. I specifically hate the Sochan/Black fit offensively.

The whole "no true PG" notion sounds nice in theory, but only works if you have a big wing or big to provide elite play making.
I'm assuming Black and Sochan can grow into that role, especially since Pop is ALREADY trying that with Sochan alone. Plus you have Tre, Branham, and KJ off the bench.
Sochan and Black together wouldn't be a problem if surrounded by 3 apt shooters, which is where Miller, Vassell (and say, Collins) would come in. For the time being I don't see it being a problem, but if it doesn't work out, then you can always make your moves later on. Worth a shot IMO.

[Mr. Body]

I'm warming to a guy like Jarace. The Spurs were like rag dolls against the Hawks bigs in the first half. They could use a banger. Him, Hendricks...

[mo7888]

I'm warming to a guy like Jarace. The Spurs were like rag dolls against the Hawks bigs in the first half. They could use a banger. Him, Hendricks...

I like both of those guys alot. The two way potential is pretty impressive to me. I could see a Devin, Sochan, Jarace lineup being pretty good. It either eventually moves KJ to the bench or causes him to be traded for other assets though I'd think.

[Degoat]

I'm warming to a guy like Jarace. The Spurs were like rag dolls against the Hawks bigs in the first half. They could use a banger. Him, Hendricks...

Agreed if not for the top 3 guys right now Jarace, Hendricks, and Black are my favorites

[ace3g]

Anthony Black (Arkansas) vs Andre Jackson Jr. (UConn) meet in the Sweet 16.

[exstatic]

Agreed if not for the top 3 guys right now Jarace, Hendricks, and Black are my favorites

I’ve been team Black for maybe 6-7 weeks, but I’ve been on the Hendricks train since before Christmas.

[heyheymymy]

Give SA TJ-D with the #33

[Mr. Body]

Give SA TJ-D with the #33

I'm here for it.

[Ariel]

Could be one of the 2nd rounders.

[heyheymymy]

I'm here for it.

You scouted TJ-D out weeks ago. Love the Clarke comps. Especially these past 2 Indiana games I like enough of what I see. Shit, He might vault ahead of #33 with these performances.

[rankingtear]

Jarace high school stuff is Bam like and is having a good tournament. Establishing himself as the favorite at 4. Outside of the top 4 is where the draft starts. Your evaluating OTE guys ; players with below average seasons like Whitmore, Nick and Keyonte ; finding offensive upside in defense first players in Black, Cason and Hendricks.

[exstatic]

You scouted TJ-D out weeks ago. Love the Clarke comps. Especially these past 2 Indiana games I like enough of what I see. Shit, He might vault ahead of #33 with these performances.

His numbers aren’t in Clarkes neighborhood. If you don’t believe me, do a player compare on TaT.

Clarke was his own kind of alien, and even he’s struggled for consistent NBA minutes.

[scott]

He’s 6’7” and will be 19 when drafted. Derrick was 23. It makes a difference when you get them that much younger.

It’s all prospective though. Black isn’t the player White was come draft day, but he’s taller and younger… so maybe he’ll end up better?

[scott]

So Miller + (Black, Amen, or NSJ) or KJ + Scoot

That's an interesting proposition. I think I'd go KJ + Scoot..

I’d take option one ten times out of ten personally.

[exstatic]

It’s all prospective though. Black isn’t the player White was come draft day, but he’s taller and younger… so maybe he’ll end up better?

He really only needs his shot fixed, and if you look at advanced stats, he’s better defensively, higher FTA rate (aggression) and dished more dimes. As I pointed out, white was TWENTY THREE on draft day. You would expect him to be better than a freshman, after multiple seasons. Drafting 19 YO on potential isn’t new ground. I’m not inventing this. :lol

[Mr. Body]

It’s all prospective though. Black isn’t the player White was come draft day, but he’s taller and younger… so maybe he’ll end up better?

You're acting like White isn't a good player.

He'd still be on the team if his contract wasn't what it is.

[rankingtear]

Dunno what Black path to an all star or a 20 point scorer is at this point, all Wright picks have that even if they are considered role players in college.

[exstatic]

Dunno what Black path to an all star or a 20 point scorer is at this point, all Wright picks have that even if they are considered role players in college.

He's low usage, about 21, but an efficient scorer. Increase his usage, eventually, once he becomes accustomed to the NBA. Usually happens in year 3 here.

[rankingtear]

He's low usage, about 21, but an efficient scorer. Increase his usage, eventually, once he becomes accustomed to the NBA. Usually happens in year 3 here.

Why is he considered an efficient scorer?

[Drom John]

No top 10 pick is returning and risking injury..

Haliburton did.

[exstatic]

Haliburton did.

Hali was probably just a FRP, not a top 10 prospect, but he is an example of a guy with not eye popping freshman numbers making good. It’s interesting that both he and Vassell returned to school, and even at 10 and 11, were two of the best picks in that awful draft.

[scott]

You're acting like White isn't a good player.

He'd still be on the team if his contract wasn't what it is.

100%. And you'll see that I even state I still like Black (ideally paired with another pick) if we don't land Wemby or Miller.

I'm merely pointing out that Black is of similar mold to a player we picked at 29 and then later traded for #24 + a swap + what become four SRPs. Him being top 10 in this draft says less about Black than it does about the draft (as you've pointed out).

Not related to anything, but I also find the juxtaposition of names (Black/White) interesting. Like the two combine to complete a yin/yang, complete object.

[DPG21920]

I’ll be honest, I have not really researched anyone but Wemby/Scoot/Miller. I won’t do that until we know where we draft…I dont even want to put it out in the universe that SA gets pick 4+ :lol

[scott]

He really only needs his shot fixed, and if you look at advanced stats, he’s better defensively, higher FTA rate (aggression) and dished more dimes. As I pointed out, white was TWENTY THREE on draft day. You would expect him to be better than a freshman, after multiple seasons. Drafting 19 YO on potential isn’t new ground. I’m not inventing this. :lol

Man, I don't know if you know this, but the universe does not actually revolve around you and it is possible for people to have conversations without you perceiving some imaginary slight against whatever fiefdom you've built up in your mom's basement, but put down the hot pockets and contemplate for a moment that this isn't about some virtual battle to see who controls the Spurs fan board corner of the internet. Yes... drafting 19 year olds is a thing... no you didn't invent this... but it is still entirely possible that Black does not develop into as good a player as Derrick White. It's also completely reasonable to point out that we're discussing using a top 10 pick on a player who fits the archetype of the player we just traded for a late FRP.

[BacktoBasics]

Man, I don't know if you know this, but the universe does not actually revolve around you and it is possible for people to have conversations without you perceiving some imaginary slight against whatever fiefdom you've built up in your mom's basement, but put down the hot pockets and contemplate for a moment that this isn't about some virtual battle to see who controls the Spurs fan board corner of the internet. Yes... drafting 19 year olds is a thing... no you didn't invent this... but it is still entirely possible that Black does not develop into as good a player as Derrick White. It's also completely reasonable to point out that we're discussing using a top 10 pick on a player who fits the archetype of the player we just traded for a late FRP.
I think Black and Sochan are similar so no argument there. But they’re different enough that they can easily coexist if not thrive off each other. I certainly don’t think that they’re redundant enough that we’d need to choose one or the other.

With that said I’d like a more offensive oriented player first but I’m high on Black regardless.

[Ariel]

I think Black and Sochan are similar so no argument there. But they’re different enough that they can easily coexist if not thrive off each other. I certainly don’t think that they’re redundant enough that we’d need to choose one or the other.

With that said I’d like a more offensive oriented player first but I’m high on Black regardless.
Agreed. With their high IQ, passing, and cutting, they can feed off each other and thrive, as long as they're surrounded with good shooters to provide spacing and at least one more player who can attack the basket. If that's the case, I think they'd be great together.

[exstatic]

Tankathon, a board I consider pretty vanilla and consensus driven, has Black at #9 on their Big Board, and going #8 on their mock. TaT still has both Thompsons in the Top 5. Dean on Draft, a board I consider quite Quixotic, has Black in a tier from 3-7. He has do not draft grades on the Thompsons. Wildly differing viewpoints, but they both have Black in the Top 10. I guess they live in their mom's basement, and subsist on Hot Pockets.

[scott]

Yep, and no Top 10 pick has ever failed to live up to expectations. If some websites list him in the Top 10, there is no possible way he fails to live up to expectations.

[TD 21]

I'm assuming Black and Sochan can grow into that role, especially since Pop is ALREADY trying that with Sochan alone. Plus you have Tre, Branham, and KJ off the bench.
Sochan and Black together wouldn't be a problem if surrounded by 3 apt shooters, which is where Miller, Vassell (and say, Collins) would come in. For the time being I don't see it being a problem, but if it doesn't work out, then you can always make your moves later on. Worth a shot IMO.

Pop was experimenting with Sochan in a point forward-like role at times mostly by default. Between the Primo release and Graham acquisition, they had no secondary primary ball handler (not that Primo was that, but they were attempting to shoe-horn him into it).

Even if Sochan becomes the next Siakam, an offense led by him would equal a treadmill team, while Black looks like a "connector" type.

[Mr. Body]

Pop was experimenting with Sochan in a point forward-like role at times mostly by default. Between the Primo release and Graham acquisition, they had no secondary primary ball handler (not that Primo was that, but they were attempting to shoe-horn him into it).

Even if Sochan becomes the next Siakam, an offense led by him would equal a treadmill team, while Black looks like a "connector" type.

The Spurs, at least under Popovich, doesn't really need an incredible playmaker to start things going. Parker was a first lass ballhandler and put enormous pressure on the rim, but once a player gets things in motion the system works on its own.

[wildbill2u]

Assuming we don't get the Unicorn or Scoot--and we take Miller based on his word he'll be good--could Miller replace Sochan or Kendall? He seems to have some skills and physical attributes that could make that work at either position.

I guess it would depend on your analysis of the relative value of both players. I'm guessing most of ST would prefer to give Kendall the demotion--but he continues to be our best scorer, way better than Sochan.

I'm beginning to wonder if all the Sochan hype is just whistling through the grave yard because he was taken so high in the draft and we are rating him higher than he deserves. Can you see him starting at that position on any of the teams that are above .500 in the standings??

So back to the question: If we draft Miller, does he replace Sochan or Kendall. ????

[exstatic]

Assuming we don't get the Unicorn or Scoot--and we take Miller based on his word he'll be good--could Miller replace Sochan or Kendall? He seems to have some skills and physical attributes that could make that work at either position.

I guess it would depend on your analysis of the relative value of both players. I'm guessing most of ST would prefer to give Kendall the demotion--but he continues to be our best scorer, way better than Sochan.

I'm beginning to wonder if all the Sochan hype is just whistling through the grave yard because he was taken so high in the draft and we are rating him higher than he deserves. Can you see him starting at that position on any of the teams that are above .500 in the standings??

So back to the question: If we draft Miller, does he replace Sochan or Kendall. ????

Who’s Kendall?

[rjv]

Tankathon, a board I consider pretty vanilla and consensus driven, has Black at #9 on their Big Board, and going #8 on their mock. TaT still has both Thompsons in the Top 5. Dean on Draft, a board I consider quite Quixotic, has Black in a tier from 3-7. He has do not draft grades on the Thompsons. Wildly differing viewpoints, but they both have Black in the Top 10. I guess they live in their mom's basement, and subsist on Hot Pockets.

A+ for sneaking in "Quixotic" in a basketball thread.

[Ocotillo]

Who’s Kendall?

Pop's affinity for old vets, didn't you hear, we signed Kendall Gill.

[playblair]

kansas st has the best pg in the nation........he is only 5 8 but he can assist like nash

[Maddog]

kansas st has the best pg in the nation........he is only 5 8 but he can assist like nash

I'm actually watching
He's pretty darn entertaining
Always talk about a big point being able to look/pass over, but how about look and pass under


I wonder if he'll cut it in the NBA?

[JPB]

Black might end up as a contributing NBA player but he's definitely not who the spurs should draft with their first pick IMHO... Nice defensive instincts, very aggressive and I respect the player but too limited on offense. Not a playmaker and can't create for himselff. And spurs need more than a facilitator as a priority. I might take him with a second pick tho, should the spurs trade down, which they probably won't or manage to do.

[playblair]

I'm actually watching
He's pretty darn entertaining
Always talk about a big point being able to look/pass over, but how about look and pass under


I wonder if he'll cut it in the NBA?
1639070298560684032
1639072220881502209

[JPB]

I'm actually watching
He's pretty darn entertaining
Always talk about a big point being able to look/pass over, but how about look and pass under


I wonder if he'll cut it in the NBA?

Not sure tbh, size def an issue. But he has the fire.

[Ariel]

Black might end up as a contributing NBA player but he's definitely not who the spurs should draft with their first pick IMHO... Nice defensive instincts, very aggressive and I respect the player but too limited on offense. Not a playmaker and can't create for himselff. And spurs need more than a facilitator as a priority. I might take him with a second pick tho, should the spurs trade down, which they probably won't or manage to do.
He's not the franchise player who you'd expect out of a tanking season, the problem is, there are not that many of those in this class. My shortlist at the top is:
Franchise players:
1) Wemby (duh!)
All Stars:
2a / 2b) Scoot Henderson / Brandon Miller (depending on who picks at 2)
4) Cam Whitmore (last potential star IMO)
Quality starters:
5) Jarace Walker
6) Anthony Black
7) Gradey Dick
From this point onwards it becomes a crapshoot. I have:
8) Keyonte George (undersized and inefficient chucker, but has potential to improve)
9) Cason Wallace (good but overrated defender IMO)
Then you have GG Jackson, Dariq Whitehead and Dereck Lively who I'd consider starting at 15-20, but they're projects mostly.
We may be able to land an interesting role player with our best 2nd rounder (Strawther, Colby Jones, Jaquez), but unless we get lucky in the lottery or some dumb team pushes talent back by taking the Thompson twins, we're f*cked.

[tonight...you]

I'm actually watching
He's pretty darn entertaining
Always talk about a big point being able to look/pass over, but how about look and pass under


I wonder if he'll cut it in the NBA?
He'll obviously get abused something fierce on D so he better bring a ton in every other facet to the game to offset that.
Going to be tough, but he sure is fun to watch.

[Ariel]

I love Timme's game, but dude looks like he went ahead and registered his own birth with a cigarette in his mouth and a beer bottle in his hand.

[Ariel]

Timme reminds me of Scola quite a bit.
I'll take Jaquez with one of our 2nd rounders if available. Very smart and crafty.

[Mr. Body]

He's not the franchise player who you'd expect out of a tanking season, the problem is, there are not that many of those in this class. My shortlist at the top is:
Franchise players:
1) Wemby (duh!)
All Stars:
2a / 2b) Scoot Henderson / Brandon Miller (depending on who picks at 2)
4) Cam Whitmore (last potential star IMO)
Quality starters:
5) Jarace Walker
6) Anthony Black
7) Gradey Dick
From this point onwards it becomes a crapshoot. I have:
8) Keyonte George (undersized and inefficient chucker, but has potential to improve)
9) Cason Wallace (good but overrated defender IMO)
Then you have GG Jackson, Dariq Whitehead and Dereck Lively who I'd consider starting at 15-20, but they're projects mostly.
We may be able to land an interesting role player with our best 2nd rounder (Strawther, Colby Jones, Jaquez), but unless we get lucky in the lottery or some dumb team pushes talent back by taking the Thompson twins, we're f*cked.

Should probably include Taylor Hendricks. I don't know if there are a ton of others who will press into the top ten. We might see a guy like Leonard Miller get a good look. This draft takes a nosedive pretty quickly but I think there are gems to be had later in the round and into the front of the second round.

[ace3g]

https://twitter.com/DraftExpress/status/1639096078149492738

[ace3g]

https://twitter.com/NoCeilingsNBA/status/1639082334786928640

[Mr. Body]

https://twitter.com/DraftExpress/status/1639096078149492738

Arkansas was completely overwhelmed by perhaps the best team playing right now, but Black fought hard. Five steals is great, and he drew enough fouls, a quiet skill for him, to shoot 11 free throws.

[heyheymymy]

oof Nick Smith Jr stock must be plummeting, wonder how far he will fall.

2 straight impactless tourney games where ARK was downright hiding him.

[Mr. Body]

oof Nick Smith Jr stock must be plummeting, wonder how far he will fall.

2 straight impactless tourney games where ARK was downright hiding him.

1. I think James Wiseman and Shaeden Sharpe have proven this: if you get rated high, don't play basketball. Smith did himself wrong by being a warrior and trying to come back.

2. There is something really, really fucky going on with high school evaluators. Smith wasn't good. Dariq Whitehead fucking sucked compared to his ranking. Lively is only pretty good. Keyonte George is a guy who hits every third shot he takes. Dillon Mitchell, bad.

3. What does Smith do now? I'm guessing stay in, but he'll go late lottery if anything. Too bad. Seems like a good kid.

[BacktoBasics]

Black might end up as a contributing NBA player but he's definitely not who the spurs should draft with their first pick IMHO... Nice defensive instincts, very aggressive and I respect the player but too limited on offense. Not a playmaker and can't create for himselff. And spurs need more than a facilitator as a priority. I might take him with a second pick tho, should the spurs trade down, which they probably won't or manage to do.
I’m gonna go ahead and disagree with you. Black turned dog shit into leading his team in scoring tonight while also busting his ass on the defensive end.

He’s not a volume scorer first option but he’s absolutely Spurs material.

[BackHome]

1. I think James Wiseman and Shaeden Sharpe have proven this: if you get rated high, don't play basketball. Smith did himself wrong by being a warrior and trying to come back.

2. There is something really, really fucky going on with high school evaluators. Smith wasn't good. Dariq Whitehead fucking sucked compared to his ranking. Lively is only pretty good. Keyonte George is a guy who hits every third shot he takes. Dillon Mitchell, bad.

3. What does Smith do now? I'm guessing stay in, but he'll go late lottery if anything. Too bad. Seems like a good kid.

Yeah I give him credit he could have packed it in and probably would have been drafted higher then he will be if he stays in. But I think he is still a first rounder one of his main problems he is is so damn skinny he is easily pushed around. He will definitely need to add 10 to 15pds which will help him finish and be confident to take it to the rim.

[The Truth #6]

We know what the Spurs need in this draft but if they’re picking at say 5, they have to take the best player available for the team. It will likely be a starter/role player like Jarace or Anthony Black, maybe Taylor Hendricks, and just have to accept that it’s Wemby or bust, so to speak.

[BackHome]

If we do not get Wemb. I would still be a happy camper if we we could pick up Brandon Miller who would probably end up starting at SF by the end of the season. He gives us a major floor spacer with his 3 ball shot and he is also a very good rebounder which is another area this team needs to improve on.

With Miller picked then in the second round pick up Jaime Jaquez - another gritty smart player who plays tough and is a very good rebounder. He would be a fan favorite in SA for sure. If not him then maybe Strwathers from Gongaza or Coulibaly who plays with Wemb.

So after that pick I believe we got the Raptors and i would definitely take 6’11 PF Azuolas Tubelis - just all around great basketball players - he rebounds he scores inside and has a high motor. I definitely think he could play some Center for us.

[mo7888]

We know what the Spurs need in this draft but if they’re picking at say 5, they have to take the best player available for the team. It will likely be a starter/role player like Jarace or Anthony Black, maybe Taylor Hendricks, and just have to accept that it’s Wemby or bust, so to speak.

Jarace has a chance to be much more than that...

[mo7888]

Yeah I give him credit he could have packed it in and probably would have been drafted higher then he will be if he stays in. But I think he is still a first rounder one of his main problems he is is so damn skinny he is easily pushed around. He will definitely need to add 10 to 15pds which will help him finish and be confident to take it to the rim.

He's still going top 10...

[Big Empty]

No Brandon Miller for me. He’s near retirement age already because he was held back since he’s a knucklehead. Havnt seen anything lately from him. He was getting pat down after someone got murdered, no common sense.

[The Truth #6]

Jarace has a chance to be much more than that...

Agree in general. I like him. But lots of question marks on players outside of Wemby. That’s my main point, along with we have to accept that we likely aren’t getting a surefire star despite being a terrible team.

[BacktoBasics]

No Brandon Miller for me. He’s near retirement age already because he was held back since he’s a knucklehead. Havnt seen anything lately from him. He was getting pat down after someone got murdered, no common sense.
So you’ll skip on talent because he’s 1 year too old for you?

He’s 20. He’ll be 20 at the start of next season.

[JPB]

I’m gonna go ahead and disagree with you. Black turned dog shit into leading his team in scoring tonight while also busting his ass on the defensive end.

He’s not a volume scorer first option but he’s absolutely Spurs material.

Oh, we agree. I like him, reason why I said I'd still take him should the spurs trade down (not happening). But is he the dominating star you need and tanked hard for? As you said, probably not the first option scorer you need. Now saying this, if all your other options are gone (and how many are they actually?) maybe you consider him at 5.

I'm starting to have a really bad feeling with Scoot and Miller potentially comes with huge off court issues... I like Whitmore but you might be only left with Wemby and prayers...

[exstatic]

Oh, we agree. I like him, reason why I said I'd still take him should the spurs trade down (not happening). But is he the dominating star you need and tanked hard for? As you said, probably not the first option scorer you need. Now saying this, if all your other options are gone (and how many are they actually?) maybe you consider him at 5.

I'm starting to have a really bad feeling with Scoot and Miller potentially comes with huge off court issues... I like Whitmore but you might be only left with Wemby and prayers...

Scoots issues will be on the court. He doesn’t shoot well, he doesn’t finish well, and his defense is dog shit. I don’t buy his HS hype, and I think he’s a back half top 10 selection, if you take the blinders off.

[mo7888]

Agree in general. I like him. But lots of question marks on players outside of Wemby. That’s my main point, along with we have to accept that we likely aren’t getting a surefire star despite being a terrible team.

That's every draft though...there's always questions... but this is tbe best draft in some time now...

[exstatic]

I think this draft could produce up to 4 stars/superstars, but it’s a crap shoot, because it all depends on which players go to which teams. Any player not named Wemby who goes to DET or HOU can probably be considered a developmental write off. They suck at it, but excel at tanking. Hopefully, they tag two of the 3 high bust guys, Scoot and the Thompson Twins.

[duncan2150]

Should probably include Taylor Hendricks. I don't know if there are a ton of others who will press into the top ten. We might see a guy like Leonard Miller get a good look. This draft takes a nosedive pretty quickly but I think there are gems to be had later in the round and into the front of the second round.

Definitely for Hendricks.

https://twitter.com/DraftExpress/status/1638577447602978818
Really interesting prospect: Long, good shooter and shotblocker.

[exstatic]

Definitely for Hendricks.

https://twitter.com/DraftExpress/status/1638577447602978818
Really interesting prospect: Long, good shooter and shotblocker.

Dean, who definitely marches to his own analytical drummer, has him at #4 on his substack.

[Mr. Body]

I think Jordan Hawkins from UConn will go into the lottery, maybe even top 10. He hoists nearly 10 threes every 36 minutes and shoots nearly .900 from the free throw line.

He's a bit like Ochai Agbaji for Kansas last year in that he started rising as his team went deeper into the tournament.

Constant movement, super-fast release. Was scoring this year against almost constant attention.

[Ariel]

Should probably include Taylor Hendricks. I don't know if there are a ton of others who will press into the top ten. We might see a guy like Leonard Miller get a good look. This draft takes a nosedive pretty quickly but I think there are gems to be had later in the round and into the front of the second round.
Didn't mention Hendricks because, although his profile is definitely very intriguing (long athletic forward who can defend and shoot 3s at the very least is already an NBA rotation player), it's hard for me to properly gauge him since I haven't seen him play in actual games (pretty much the only player projected in the top 20). So when putting together my top 10 I'm very biased towards players I'm confident I have a reasonably good read on, and that's not the case with Hendricks for me. But yes, he could easily end up being better than half the guys I listed, I wouldn't rule it out.
On Leonard Miller I have mixed feelings. On one hand it's difficult not to be intrigued by a 6'10" guy who's 19 and statistically seems like a reasonably good scorer and rebounder. But I'm not sold on his perimeter game, and if he's a big man in the NBA his size advantage is squashed, and I don't know that he's got any elite level skill to hang his hat on. Also not being able to evaluate him around better talent on a consistent basis puts me off, coupled with the fact I think someone is going to take a flyer on him in the 20s before he gets to us.
So for 2nd rounders I'm keying in on somewhat older players, like Jaime Jaquez, Strawther and Colby Jones. A few of them are likely to be taken by teams in the 20s (like Brooklyn -twice-, Miami, Sacramento, Memphis, Indiana -twice-, Utah), but someone is bound to fall.

[Leetonidas]

No Brandon Miller for me. He’s near retirement age already because he was held back since he’s a knucklehead. Havnt seen anything lately from him. He was getting pat down after someone got murdered, no common sense.

the pat down thing was a pregame ritual before that ever happened. yeah its dumb but he's a kid, he wasnt doing to be edgy or mock the victim

[Ariel]

the pat down thing was a pregame ritual before that ever happened. yeah its dumb but he's a kid, he wasnt doing to be edgy or mock the victim
Even if that's the case, you'd have to be retarded not to realize the timing was horrible. So either he's an a$$hole, or not very bright (to put it kindly).

[Leetonidas]

Even if that's the case, you'd have to be retarded not to realize the timing was horrible. So either he's an a$$hole, or not very bright (to put it kindly).

Not disagreeing but again, he's a kid. Kids do dumb shit without really reflecting on it. Like I said Im not disagreeing, it was stupid as fuck, but I'm not gonna pass on the kid simply for making a dumb mistake and exercising poor judgment. Im sure we all did retarded shit at 19/20 years old

[Mr. Body]

Not disagreeing but again, he's a kid. Kids do dumb shit without really reflecting on it. Like I said Im not disagreeing, it was stupid as fuck, but I'm not gonna pass on the kid simply for making a dumb mistake and exercising poor judgment. Im sure we all did retarded shit at 19/20 years old

Dunno, man. Being a kid is, like, forgetting to buy milk on the way home. Not forgetting your actions lead to the murder of someone and doing a pregame ritual that's about you packing a gun. That's not even poor judgment, it's a gaping hole of humanity.

[playblair]

brandon miller scored 0 points in a tournament game & his been held scoreless or single digits in several games.........miller is overrated

[Leetonidas]

Dunno, man. Being a kid is, like, forgetting to buy milk on the way home. Not forgetting your actions lead to the murder of someone and doing a pregame ritual that's about you packing a gun. That's not even poor judgment, it's a gaping hole of humanity.

What kids are buying milk on the way home? :lol that's like something your wife asks you to do that you forget about

Like I said the pat down thing was something he and his teammates did before the situation with Miles and the victim. Yes it's fucking stupid but to act like he's a complete piece of shit because of it...I dunno about that. Like i said, totally fucking stupid, but I'm not gonna judge his entire character based on that

[Mr. Body]

What kids are buying milk on the way home? :lol



Sorry, but are you an idiot?

[exstatic]

brandon miller scored 0 points in a tournament game & his been held scoreless or single digits in several games.........miller is overrated

He had the dud first tournament game, followed by 19 points, and Bama is still playing. He also literally had one single digit game during the year, against UH and Jarace, who clocks in as a pretty good defender. You can find reasons for not liking the youngster, but scoring output ain’t one of them.

[Leetonidas]

Sorry, but are you an idiot?
You clearly are. You don't have to be a fucking twat all the time, jack ass

[BacktoBasics]

Oh, we agree. I like him, reason why I said I'd still take him should the spurs trade down (not happening). But is he the dominating star you need and tanked hard for? As you said, probably not the first option scorer you need. Now saying this, if all your other options are gone (and how many are they actually?) maybe you consider him at 5.

I'm starting to have a really bad feeling with Scoot and Miller potentially comes with huge off court issues... I like Whitmore but you might be only left with Wemby and prayers...

After getting all the details around the Miller situation I have no problems with him. I don't see a problem.

I have yet to see anything particularly bad about Scoot. The kid has confidence. I don't find him to be overly self aggrandizing or pompous. I just think he wants to project himself as a potential franchise player and I respect that.

I guess we could argue that one of the twins could go 4th but I'm fine with Black at anywhere after 4.

I do agree that he's not the "star" we're tanking for but there's no promised picks when tanking anyway. Well, not top 3 at least.

[Joseph Kony]

Spurs would be fools to pass on Miller if they miss out on Wemby and miller is available. the fact that a complete retard with garbage talent evaluation like Mrs. Body doesnt like him only guarantees he's going to be a star

[Mr. Body]

Spurs would be fools to pass on Miller if they miss out on Wemby and miller is available. the fact that a complete retard with garbage talent evaluation like Mrs. Body doesnt like him only guarantees he's going to be a star

LMAO. It's not his talent, dumb fuck.

[Joseph Kony]

LMAO. It's not his talent, dumb fuck.

:cry he did the same thing he always does after his friend murdered someone what a horrible human :cry

:lol shut the fuck up you insufferable faggot. stick to sniffing PATFO's asshole

[Mr. Body]

:cry he did the same thing he always does after his friend murdered someone what a horrible human :cry

:lol shut the fuck up you insufferable faggot. stick to sniffing PATFO's asshole

LMAO I never talked about his talent, you cow-brained fuckup. Man are you dense.

[Mr. Body]

I feel like we're always going to be plagued by the casuals prancing around with "We should draft Brandon Miller" like they have a clue what this team does. I can't imagine following the Spurs and having not a single clue about how the organization functions. It's like slamming your scrotum in a car door over and over.

[Joseph Kony]

I feel like we're always going to be plagued by the casuals prancing around with "We should draft Brandon Miller" like they have a clue what this team does. I can't imagine following the Spurs and having not a single clue about how the organization functions. It's like slamming your scrotum in a car door over and over.

We're plagued with idiots like you who think their shit doesnt stink despite constantly having garbage-tier takes (you son of a bitch, im in! :lmao) and then act like pompous dickwads to other posters for no reason. you think you're special because you typed of some long winded thread full of surface level observations and obvious bullshit because a bunch of idiots here patted you on the back? you're a fucking moron and it's not because of your takes on Brandon Miller. its because of your entire body of work is full of shit and youre a thin-skinned little bitch, you miserable cunt

[Mr. Body]

We're plagued with idiots like you who think their shit doesnt stink despite constantly having garbage-tier takes (you son of a bitch, im in! :lmao) and then act like pompous dickwads to other posters for no reason. you think you're special because you typed of some long winded thread full of surface level observations and obvious bullshit because a bunch of idiots here patted you on the back? you're a fucking moron and it's not because of your takes on Brandon Miller. its because of your entire body of work is full of shit and youre a thin-skinned little bitch, you miserable cunt

:lol

Run along, junior. We're talking the draft here, not the crud that comes out of your ass.

[Joseph Kony]

:lol

Run along, junior. We're talking the draft here, not the crud that comes out of your ass.

:lmao mrs body got bodied. enjoy the rest of the day dickhead