Draft projects to watch besides Wembanyama & Henderson

[Mr. Body]

:lmao mrs body got bodied. enjoy the rest of the day dickhead

Thanks. I'll post about the draft once you get to the playground, hon. Keep your helmet on. Don't eat the dogshit. It hurt your tummy last time.

[Joseph Kony]

by the way, this guy thought the Spurs "nailed" the Primo and Weiskamp picks, that should tell you that his opinion on the draft means jack shit :lmao

[Joseph Kony]

Thanks. I'll post about the draft once you get to the playground, hon. Keep your helmet on. Don't eat the dogshit. It hurt your tummy last time.

oh i'm sure you'll make some stupid post slurping whatever the spurs decide to do even if it's drafting someone like Timme with the fourth pick you'll find a way to spin it as a brilliant move. fucking idiot :lol

[Mr. Body]

by the way, this guy thought the Spurs "nailed" the Primo and Weiskamp picks, that should tell you that his opinion on the draft means jack shit :lmao

Nah, bruh. I wanted them to pick Sengun. Wieskamp I was okay with. Just a second round pick. I think your extensive and obsessive notes on me must be a bit mistaken there. Amend your shrine accordingly. Kisses.

[Joseph Kony]

:lol "extensive notes"

yeah man, you making that retarded thread that multiple posters make fun of you for is really me taking extensive notes. i'm sorry your wittle feelings are hurt over your shitty takes.

[Mr. Body]

:lol "extensive notes"

yeah man, you making that retarded thread that multiple posters make fun of you for is really me taking extensive notes. i'm sorry your wittle feelings are hurt over your shitty takes.

No, seriously. Your bank vault full of Mr. Body paraphernalia is a little wrong about how I wanted that draft to go. I'm a little concerned that next time you go masturbate to the thought of me, your information is wrong. Can you, just for your mental safety, get that clear?

Good, thanks.

[Ariel]

Brandon Miller 0 for 3, 2 TO in 3 minutes of playing time

[Ariel]

Brandon Miller looks nervous, chucking up shots and picking up fouls. Needs to learn to manage pressure in a smart way when things don't go his way, instead of doubling down all the time.

[playblair]

Brandon Miller 0 for 3, 2 TO in 3 minutes of playing time


Brandon Miller looks nervous, chucking up shots and picking up fouls. Needs to learn to manage pressure in a smart way when things don't go his way, instead of doubling down all the time.
brandon miller is overrated............

[Ariel]

brandon miller is overrated............
Dude is very talented, brings the ball up the court, passes, rebounds, defends, slashes, we know he can shoot... he just needs to learn when to do what and not rush it when under pressure.

[JPB]

That San Diego - Alabama game is hardly basketball.

[Ariel]

Miller at times looks like a deer in headlights

[Ariel]

Horrible misses, but some tremendous passes by Miller.

[playblair]

this tournament has :drunk miller..........miller is not a lottery prospect......plz stop asking for miller to be the spurs pick if missing on wemby.........

[Maddog]

Well
Looks like a one person draft....

I know probably an overreaction but Miller is not having a great tournament

[JPB]

Well
Looks like a one person draft....

I know probably an overreaction but Miller is not having a great tournament

It's about potential. Tournament matters little. And when you watch Miller you see great potential. Miller had a bad Tournament but this game is absolutly horrible and he is surrounded by scrubs without any real system to serve him. Put him in an NBA team and they'll make the best of that potential. He can shoot the 3, pass, rebound, block, he's fast, he can slash & drive and he's long...

[Mr. Body]

0-5
5-17
3-19

Those are Miller's shooting numbers for the NCAAT.

OOOOOUUUUUUCH

[baseline bum]

JFC Miller with a Kenyon Martin Game 6 esque performance, except Martin has an excuse: he was playing against Prime Tim Duncan. It really is Wemby or bust this draft isn't it?

[offset formation]

brandon miller is overrated............

your MLK meme is among the dumbest shit most offensive things I've ever seen posted on this godforsaken board.

[BackHome]

He did not have his usual game but still almost managed a double double and I think his injury is impacting his game. I am still cool if the Spurs want him if we do not get Wemb. His floor is a solid starter on a good team and would definitely fit very well alongside Sochan

[spurs1990]

Morant, Mobley, Doncic and Edwards. The only great draft picks since 2018 that are both performing and contributing to winning teams. This thing is just pure wing and a prayer outside #1

[BackHome]

If we don't get Wemb we get the SF that we have all been asking for for the season 19pts to go with 8 rebounds and is a 857% free throw shooter. You can use him in any team build no matter who we have.

[ace3g]

https://twitter.com/DraftExpress/status/1639333522308464651

[rascal]

That San Diego - Alabama game is hardly basketball.

UCONN is winning the whole thing.

[BackHome]

Is Colby Jones even playing?

[heyheymymy]

I like that call rascal- could work out imo

[Ariel]

1 chance in 7, that's all it comes down to.

[heyheymymy]

yeah Colby Jones not having a good game but his recent stat lines look so solid. Would be surprised if Jones lasts past the 20s first round. Plus there is kinda a shortage of truer SGs or combo SG/PGs that will stay a 1 or 2 in NBA around that selection range if I'm looking at it correctly. Terq, Jones, Hawk, Kobe, Sasser, perhaps sufficient quantity but even still, if you're looking for a team need 1 or 2 and you're selecting in that range, Jones may lie at the top of that list preference/skill/potential wise. Max Lewis could be a wing but I suppose add him to the list as well but the Hood-Schifino's et al will be long gone by then.

[heyheymymy]

First time in NCAA Div 1 Men's Tournament history, there are zero #1 seeds left in the Elite Eight.

[Maddog]

He did not have his usual game but still almost managed a double double and I think his injury is impacting his game. I am still cool if the Spurs want him if we do not get Wemb. His floor is a solid starter on a good team and would definitely fit very well alongside Sochan

I hadn't realized until reading this he was injured -groin.
First time watching and I was going "is this the guy every one is hyped about?". In particular I was underwhelmed by his ability to drive. A groin injury would definitely explain that.

[exstatic]

I hadn't realized until reading this he was injured -groin.
First time watching and I was going "is this the guy every one is hyped about?". In particular I was underwhelmed by his ability to drive. A groin injury would definitely explain that.

His 2point % is awful against top 50 teams, 37.5%. That will definitely need work, and he might just be a catch and shoot prospect if it can’t be fixed.

[The Truth #6]

Brandon Miller’s horrible tournament is actually kind of interesting from a Spur’s perspective. I tend to think it’s less about his sudden lack of talent, but more like he might be actually facing death threats and very intense pressure, and perhaps actually has some guilt about his role in the shooting, which, if so, maybe is actually a good thing, and bigger picture, maybe he slides a little bit and it gives the front office a little more options to think about if he’s still available when we pick, wherever that may be.

I’m not an expert on him but his interviews from before present him as mostly articulate and nothing obviously negative. But in reality it’s hard to read a person. Dejounte had the risks of a “bad apple” when in reality he’s just a social media drama queen, whereas Primo was supposed to be a mature choir boy but was instead something way worse.

[Ariel]

Brandon Miller’s horrible tournament is actually kind of interesting from a Spur’s perspective. I tend to think it’s less about his sudden lack of talent, but more like he might be actually facing death threats and very intense pressure, and perhaps actually has some guilt about his role in the shooting, which, if so, maybe is actually a good thing, and bigger picture, maybe he slides a little bit and it gives the front office a little more options to think about if he’s still available when we pick, wherever that may be.

I’m not an expert on him but his interviews from before present him as mostly articulate and nothing obviously negative. But in reality it’s hard to read a person. Dejounte had the risks of a “bad apple” when in reality he’s just a social media drama queen, whereas Primo was supposed to be a mature choir boy but was instead something way worse.
Yeah, this is an interesting take. He has obvious flashes of talent, there were several passes that made you go wow, then he'd take ill advised shots (often rushing them), missing easy baskets, and so on. I think it was a combination of him being the target of the defense, plus the pressure of the environment and the recent events, that all came together to bring him back to Earth. I still see a lot of positives, it's just that he didn't come out of the tournament like the potential franchise player he looked like he could be. But on the flip side, if he ends up falling to 4, 5 or 6 as a result of his recent events and performances, he could be a truly high reward guy for a very reasonable risk. But he's no longer a sure fire prospect in my eyes, so I'd take him if he's subject to a THOROUGH investigation (not the 10' kind interview that concludes Primo is an upstanding guy) and he impresses in workouts. But this definitely adds another layer of unpredictability to an already murky draft.

[BacktoBasics]

Miller is not falling past 4. His tourney wasn’t great but it wasn’t nearly as bad as some made it out to be. He came out of halftime the last game and controlled the pace of the game for their first run like a real pro. Ultimately they just weren’t the better team.

Did his best to hold it together through death threats and an injury.

He’s not slipping. No one in any nba town cares about his past. He can’t get away from Bama fast enough. It’ll be a good fresh start wherever he goes.

[Ariel]

Miller is not falling past 4. His tourney wasn’t great but it wasn’t nearly as bad as some made it out to be. He came out of halftime the last game and controlled the pace of the game for their first run like a real pro. Ultimately they just weren’t the better team.

Did his best to hold it together through death threats and an injury.

He’s not slipping. No one in any nba town cares about his past. He can’t get away from Bama fast enough. It’ll be a good fresh start wherever he goes.
He shot 3/19 (1/10 from 3) with 6 TO. Basically used 25 possessions to score 9 points and get 3 assists. His team lost by 7. It wasn't that his teammates didn't help him, he pretty much cost them the game. I can understand the context, there's always an argument to be made... but let's not try to pretend dog sh!t smells like roses, shall we?

[playblair]

.if he were inches taller he would be lottery pick........... ish is :wow...........spurs plz use a second on him

1639773393263431680

[JPB]

Scouts focus on the players, not stats in the Tournament wich anyway doesn't matter that much. Just watch Miller the player, and you see a potential star, the skills and versality are there... You should never overact as a scout, Tournament is an elimination game stuff in a very particular context, NBA is a 82 game season with top develoment programs to make the best of any young guy. Pressure is actually much lower in the NBA where players have the time to learn and improve.

History is full of players who shined in the Tournament and barely made an NBA career, or vice and versa. Nowell is fun and all, but back up or third string point star is his ceiling, if he actually make or stay in the NBA. And yet he's having a much better Tournament than Miller whose ceiling is NBA star/superstar. End of story, Miller is still a top 3 pick...

[ace3g]

Let's go UConn and Andre Jackson Jr. in the next game tonight!!!

[rascal]

I’m gonna go ahead and disagree with you. Black turned dog shit into leading his team in scoring tonight while also busting his ass on the defensive end.

He’s not a volume scorer first option but he’s absolutely Spurs material.

Spurs need a volume top ten league go to scorer.

[Degoat]

Wemby and Scoot are the guys we want, after that I’d look at Walker, Whitmore, Black with Hendricks in consideration. Even without his off court stuff I’m not sold on Miller. I’d be open to Amen but the OTE league is just such a mystery.

[lmbebo]

https://scontent-hou1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/337279909_894085028561726_2073884190201257078_n.jp g?_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5cd70e&_nc_ohc=tTXyzUloOScAX8AVB4Q&_nc_ht=scontent-hou1-1.xx&oh=00_AfCDfTnUQZTZpETRfRTo2SmLJfxHTebZ8Z5pfnXcQhCN vg&oe=64257E45

[Mr. Body]

Strawther, Hawkins, and even Bufkin interest me more among SGs than the supposed top batch (George, Smith). Regardless of what happens up top, I'd have them on my list for trading into the back of the first or grabbing one of them in the early second.

[exstatic]

Wemby and Scoot are the guys we want, after that I’d look at Walker, Whitmore, Black with Hendricks in consideration. Even without his off court stuff I’m not sold on Miller. I’d be open to Amen but the OTE league is just such a mystery.

If we draft and keep Scoot in the top 5, I’m done with this team. He’s a mediocre shooter, a terrible finisher, and an ungodly awful defender. He’s also completely ineffective without the ball.

[heyheymymy]

Nothing crazy but this UCONN Sanogo would be a solid mid to late second

[Ariel]

Strawther, Hawkins, and even Bufkin interest me more among SGs than the supposed top batch (George, Smith). Regardless of what happens up top, I'd have them on my list for trading into the back of the first or grabbing one of them in the early second.
Sign me up for Strawther. I think he'll go in the 20s though, too many teams there that a) could use a shooter like him and b) would take a more proven prospect like him over someone with "potential" (those teams are in the lottery mostly). I could easily see him going to Indiana, Utah or Memphis. But maybe consolidating both our 2nd rounders plus maybe one extra 2nd could put us in the low to mid 20s to grab him or a few other potential targets (I like Jaquez).

[Degoat]

If we draft and keep Scoot in the top 5, I’m done with this team. He’s a mediocre shooter, a terrible finisher, and an ungodly awful defender. He’s also completely ineffective without the ball.

To early to make that determination about the kid, everyone has flaws at his age especially in a shiity program like the g league ignite. His competitiveness, athleticism, length, and his wanting to be great will reward whoever drafts imo. He went toe to toe with wemby in their exhibition game.

[GAustex]

What about the big iron head center from Kentucky with a second rounder

[exstatic]

To early to make that determination about the kid, everyone has flaws at his age especially in a shiity program like the g league ignite. His competitiveness, athleticism, length, and his wanting to be great will reward whoever drafts imo. He went toe to toe with wemby in their exhibition game.

He chose to play in the gleague instead of college. He doesn’t get a pass for choosing a shitty program, nor for failing to improve from year 1 to year 2. His athleticism, in NBA terms, is probably a B, leading to his crap finishing in a league virtually devoid of shot blockers.

[Degoat]

He chose to play in the gleague instead of college. He doesn’t get a pass for choosing a shitty program, nor for failing to improve from year 1 to year 2. His athleticism, in NBA terms, is probably a B, leading to his crap finishing in a league virtually devoid of shot blockers.

I think the NBA G league is tougher competition than what he would have faced in in college, and the B athleticism grade is ridiculous you’re reaching on that. He comes into the NBA and is probably the 2nd most athletic guard after Ja Morant.

[heyheymymy]

Jesus Hawk is automatic from 3

[ace3g]

https://twitter.com/JPPierson/status/1639405227798581248

[Dejounte]

I think the NBA G league is tougher competition than what he would have faced in in college, and the B athleticism grade is ridiculous you’re reaching on that. He comes into the NBA and is probably the 2nd most athletic guard after Ja Morant.

Not only that but the 3 pt line is the same as it is in the NBA.

here’s something I read recently:

”I think people are also forgetting that Scoot is shooting 32% from the NBA 3P line, while all these college and international prospects are shooting from 2 feet closer. If you don't think it makes a big difference - go look at the difference in 3P% for all these "can he shoot?" Prospects between college and NBA. Cade shot 40% from 3 in college and was at 31% his rookie year. Suggs shot 33.5% in college, and 21% in the NBA.

It matters less for the elite 3P shooters, but it makes a big difference for guys on the fringe.”

a lot of guys on here are letting stats tell the whole story. Basketball is much more than stats.

ex, I will be looking at the terms of the deal soon.

not sure why folks here have convinced themselves so hard to downplay a prospect because they don’t approve of their path to the NBA.

in some cases, guys aren’t even being truthful about his performance. Somehow he’s “doing poor” statistically but he compares very well to past all star point guards before they were drafted.

a lot of guys are overthinking this. In fact, the same dude that was down on Giddey has the same exact reasons for being down on Scoot. Letting stats or size tell the story (they said Giddey has T Rex arms) and convinced themselves so hard that he would be no good.

don’t know why guys have to be so stubborn… and loud. Scoot’s feel for the game is next level but let’s settle for more mediocre looking guys like Black because the stats look somewhat efficient. Makes no sense.

and I’m fine with drafting Black if Scoot wasn’t available… but if he was? What a joke to even think about.

[Mr. Body]

I think the NBA G league is tougher competition than what he would have faced in in college, and the B athleticism grade is ridiculous you’re reaching on that. He comes into the NBA and is probably the 2nd most athletic guard after Ja Morant.

College is much tougher than G-League. Far more competitive, much better coaches, teams will actually gameplan against you. Not a single G-League game matters. Not a one. And so you're not prepared to go against incredibly hostile arenas. You don't have to figure out how to break a 10-2 run or being down by six with two minutes left to go and nothing's working. G-League cannot be compared to good college basketball.

[exstatic]

I think the NBA G league is tougher competition than what he would have faced in in college, and the B athleticism grade is ridiculous you’re reaching on that. He comes into the NBA and is probably the 2nd most athletic guard after Ja Morant.

Wrong. Gleague is a lower level of comp than the NCAA.

[Mr. Body]

Jesus Hawk is automatic from 3

I think dude's definitely lottery, maybe even gets into top 10.

[Degoat]

College is much tougher than G-League. Far more competitive, much better coaches, teams will actually gameplan against you. Not a single G-League game matters. Not a one. And so you're not prepared to go against incredibly hostile arenas. You don't have to figure out how to break a 10-2 run or being down by six with two minutes left to go and nothing's working. G-League cannot be compared to good college basketball.

100% disagree with you on that lol guys in the g league are playing for their livelihoods, not to mention they are grown men. There’s a reason guys like Drew Timme never even see an NBA or G-league court.

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/mattgeorgesac/status/1639384496113082368?s=46

Let’s keep clinging to the boomer idea that college is an untouchable product for gauging draft prospects

[Degoat]

@exstastic- Same thing I just told Mr. Body, NBA G-league guys are competing for their livelihood. Most college players won’t ever even see an NBA or G-league court

[Mr. Body]

100% disagree with you on that lol guys in the g league are playing for their livelihoods, not to mention they are grown men. There’s a reason guys like Drew Timme never even see an NBA or G-league court.

I don't get why people don't understand that basketball isn't just two guys playing one-on-one.

Guys running up and down the court working on their skills and not caring about the score isn't helping a young player. This is so evident, it's not even debateable. But the ESPN crew and NBA wants you to believe otherwise. You can if you want. There's a reason none of the G-League kiddies are prepared for the big league.

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/JPPierson/status/1639405227798581248

Thanks for bringing this guy up. He might be my Jalen Williams/ Franz/ Giddey type pick this year from initial impression. Guy moves like a good NBA player. Will have to watch some more. Obviously not a candidate for our top pick.

[Degoat]

I don't get why people don't understand that basketball isn't just two guys playing one-on-one.

Guys running up and down the court working on their skills and not caring about the score isn't helping a young player. This is so evident, it's not even debateable. But the ESPN crew and NBA wants you to believe otherwise. You can if you want. There's a reason none of the G-League kiddies are prepared for the big league.

Nobody is disputing that lmao the spurs for years have sent their rookies to the g-league because you know what it’s GOOD COMPETITION FOR THEM! and right now you could say the current spurs play the right way, they share the ball, no selfishness, but guess what!?! You need highly talented guys that can get their own bucket to win now.

[exstatic]

100% disagree with you on that lol guys in the g league are playing for their livelihoods, not to mention they are grown men. There’s a reason guys like Drew Timme never even see an NBA or G-league court.

There’s 29 gleague teams, and there are maybe that many players, not on 2 ways or NBA assignees, who might get a call up or a 10 day.

Drew Timme would instantly be the best gleague player, were he to sign a contract at the beginning of next season.

[Ariel]

Hawkins is projected to go late lottery to early 20s... we might be able to climb up into the mid 20s from our top 2nd rounder, but even then I think he's out of reach with our current picks.

[JPB]

College is much tougher than G-League. Far more competitive, much better coaches, teams will actually gameplan against you. Not a single G-League game matters. Not a one. And so you're not prepared to go against incredibly hostile arenas. You don't have to figure out how to break a 10-2 run or being down by six with two minutes left to go and nothing's working. G-League cannot be compared to good college basketball.

College basketball is horrible and massively overrated. 90% of this kids won't even turn professional. I was better than some of them on the floor (barely kidding). There's not one tournament game I've watched so far that remotely looked like BB. Fucked up rotations, teammates colliding all the time, barely any pick & roll (or decent one), barely any system completed, players not adapting then panicking, players out of position all the time, fumbles, bricks, airballs... The star is the Tournament and the Colleges but from a pure BB pov, that's unwatchable.

[Degoat]

There’s 29 gleague teams, and there are maybe that many players, not on 2 ways or NBA assignees, who might get a call up or a 10 day.

Drew Timme would instantly be the best gleague player, were he to sign a contract at the beginning of next season.

Yeah except he wouldn’t be, probably doesn’t even get drafted :lmao Sandro Mamukelashvili and Charles Bassey played in G league this year and would destroy Timme lmao

[Mr. Body]

College basketball is horrible and massively overrated. 90% of this kids won't even turn professional. I was better than some of them on the floor (barely kidding). There's not one tournament game I've watched so far that remotely looked like BB. Fucked up rotations, teammates colliding all the time, barely any pick & roll (or decent one), barely any system completed, players not adapting then panicking, players out of position all the time, fumbles, bricks, airballs... The star is the Tournament and the Colleges but from a pure BB pov, that's unwatchable.

Yeah, you guys keep missing the entire point, which is kind of hilarious.

Anyway, I can guarantee you that Scoot and the Thompson bros will need at least two years to even start getting how to play NBA team basketball. Every single guy who has come thru OTE or G-League straight outta high school has been the same, and I'll include the two dudes that hid away from college ball. Kuminga, Green, Dominic Barlow, Nix, Todd, Sharpe, Wiseman.

None of them were ready. You gotta learn how to play in a team environment first. And some of those guys will never get the reps in the NBA.

But it's okay -- Adam Silver looooooves that you think the G-League is great for high schoolers.

[rascal]

The gleague is a step up from college basketball. It's the minor league for the NBA.

A record 47 percent of players on NBA start-of-season rosters for 2022-23 had NBA G League experience.

No way college sends that % to the NBA.

[heyheymymy]

I think dude's definitely lottery, maybe even gets into top 10.

Yeah pre-tourney I had him early 20s but these past few games have massively elevated his value and brand. Don't see him lasting out of the teens now and would not be surprised with a lottery pick granted back end of it.

[pad300]

There’s 29 gleague teams, and there are maybe that many players, not on 2 ways or NBA assignees, who might get a call up or a 10 day.

Drew Timme would instantly be the best gleague player, were he to sign a contract at the beginning of next season.

There's 352 NCAA men's division 1 teams. Also, some future NBA players play in the lower divisions as well... Players who end up in the G-league are typically college seniors (or have even more experience). The average NCAA team has less than 1 player who could make the G-League when he's playing for them (ie not when he's 25, 3 years after he graduated). Even Tournament teams have at most 2 guys who could make the G league actually playing for them...

[heyheymymy]

Damn getting a lot of DAL pulling up into the top 5 on draft order sims now. Wonder if Cubes Pubes will make a sizable donation to the Silver Foundation charity this offseason for a worthy cause. Bout the only way the Mavs can add any players they are broke with limited plus assets.

[Vince Carter's ankle]

He chose to play in the gleague instead of college. He doesn’t get a pass for choosing a shitty program, nor for failing to improve from year 1 to year 2. His athleticism, in NBA terms, is probably a B, leading to his crap finishing in a league virtually devoid of shot blockers.
> crap finishing

https://sun9-46.userapi.com/impg/-zyXxVQjobriNKz92LnneQcW_HTag7oWFDsPbg/mPbjJL9uhPI.jpg?size=845x650&quality=96&sign=8a8245ca104f32f2e53e551c3099c79a&type=album

[Ariel]

Damn getting a lot of DAL pulling up into the top 5 on draft order sims now. Wonder if Cubes Pubes will make a sizable donation to the Silver Foundation charity this offseason for a worthy cause. Bout the only way the Mavs can add any players they are broke with limited plus assets.
Yup, that may be the Mavs only realistic card to shake things over. Right now they're in a 3 way tie for 11th at 36 games each, while they owe the Knicks a top 10 protected '23 pick. This would give them a 7.2% chance of keeping the pick (jumping to top 4), and a 1.5% chance at Wemby.
However, 9th place is at 35 wins, so a couple of games' difference would put them at a 96.9% chance of keeping the pick, a 20.2% chance of it being top 4, and 4.5% at Wemby. That's a HUGE leap whether they keep the pick or use it as trade bait, I don't know that there's a better tool at their disposal than that.
If I'm them, one or two key starters get an injury for a few games (say the next 2 -Charlotte and Indiana- and the last 2 -Chicago and us-), and voilà... a high pick out of thin air.

[JPB]

Yeah, you guys keep missing the entire point, which is kind of hilarious.

Anyway, I can guarantee you that Scoot and the Thompson bros will need at least two years to even start getting how to play NBA team basketball. Every single guy who has come thru OTE or G-League straight outta high school has been the same, and I'll include the two dudes that hid away from college ball. Kuminga, Green, Dominic Barlow, Nix, Todd, Sharpe, Wiseman.

None of them were ready. You gotta learn how to play in a team environment first. And some of those guys will never get the reps in the NBA.

But it's okay -- Adam Silver looooooves that you think the G-League is great for high schoolers.

I wasn't so much talking about the G League that about your affirmation that College "is much tougher, far more competitive, much better coaches, teams will actually gameplan against you" which is simply not true... The level of College BB is terrible, wich isn't hard to understand since most of these College kids are scrubs, while G league are pro and drafted players... Game plan? These kids can't even know their spot or where they're supposed to go. It's a total mess, chaos. Remove the "College" or "Tournament" tags and nobody watches. That's the reason why outside of America barely anyone actually does, starting by NBA fans...

Coaches? How many made the NBA? The few respected College coaches who tried mostly badly failed... Team environment? Most teams are made to showcase their one or two "stars" for the NBA... And comparing young guys in G league or College doesn't really make sense if you consider NCAA long history and G league very short one as far as welcoming them is concerned. it's still fresh, but come back in 10 years and see how it goes... Anyway, put a College team and G league on the court and most of the time the G League wins (if not always).

[The Truth #6]

Seems to be a player-team development vs level of competition debate between college and and G League, respectively. Here’s an idea, both leagues suck.

[BackHome]

So true and you can add the NBA to that list - Ever since they went the way of the 3 ball and stoped the physical play of the game it has gotten hard to watch. I still can not believe you have NBA players who can’t dribble the ball or hit jump shots.

[Drz]

Here's a name I can see San Antonio taking with their second round Raptors pick: Kobe Brown

Link to recent SI profile (https://www.si.com/nba/draft/prospect-profiles/nba-draft-scouting-report-missouris-kobe-brown)

The very short summary is, 4 year 6'8" player at Mizzou who plays all positions and excelled at the small things, but in his first three years, he wasn't a good shooter and just plain didn't win. But in this senior year, he turned the corner, played a fantastic team style, and -- most importantly -- upped his 3P% from sub-30 all three years prior to 45.5% (on 112 attempts).

These do-it-all players really seem to be in the Spurs mold for years now.

There's a good chance he goes undrafted, in which case I'd not at all be surprised to see SA sign him as an undrafted free agent.

[BacktoBasics]

He shot 3/19 (1/10 from 3) with 6 TO. Basically used 25 possessions to score 9 points and get 3 assists. His team lost by 7. It wasn't that his teammates didn't help him, he pretty much cost them the game. I can understand the context, there's always an argument to be made... but let's not try to pretend dog sh!t smells like roses, shall we?

I didn’t say roses. I said not as bad as some make it out to be. Predominantly because he has some patches of solid play. Not offensively of course but he had solid moments nonetheless.

With this country full of wanna be gun nutter heroes I’m sure he felt that at any moment someone was gonna snipe him out of the stands or getting off a team bus.

To still be able to have productive spurts amidst all that will likely be enough for most to overlook that he didn’t peak at tournament time.

Im not even a huge Miller fan. But the guy is still a human.

[cjw]

Charlotte continues to dominate Dallas, so looks like a top 7 pick is secured (and only 7% chance of it being that bad)

[Degoat]

Charlotte continues to dominate Dallas, so looks like a top 7 pick is secured (and only 7% chance of it being that bad)

Wow Charlotte putting in work! Lol

[scott]

Watching Creighton-SDSU and marveling at how much better this must be than G-League :lol

[Ignazzz]

https://i.postimg.cc/L6y0NHtb/9-DA9-C176-AC31-4-F36-A604-19-B5-AC101-EAA.png

[scott]

https://i.postimg.cc/L6y0NHtb/9-DA9-C176-AC31-4-F36-A604-19-B5-AC101-EAA.png

We riot.

[TD 21]

The Spurs, at least under Popovich, doesn't really need an incredible playmaker to start things going. Parker was a first lass ballhandler and put enormous pressure on the rim, but once a player gets things in motion the system works on its own.

:lmao Pop is on his last legs and that "system" only worked in a different era and when helmed by an all time player and core, leading a greater than the sum of their parts team due to an unparalleled combination of continuity, depth, experience, fit and timing (stage of careers).

Don't kid yourself: Like anyone else, the Spurs will need an incredible playmaker to even have a path to being a championship contender again.

John Karalis 🇬🇷 🇺🇦 on Twitter: "Asked Popovich why teams haven't been able to replicate his 2014 Spurs team. "Because Timmy, Manu, Tony, and Boris aren't out there. It had nothing to do with me or teaching this or that. You get combinations of guys that really get it, and they got it."" / Twitter (https://twitter.com/John_Karalis/status/1640093847983202305?cxt=HHwWgoC99ciq5MItAAAA)

[Maddog]

Watching Creighton-SDSU and marveling at how much better this must be than G-League :lol

Man

I was going to plead ignorance because I haven't watched college basketball for a while, and to be honest I don't watch g-league much...
But there's no way NCAA basketball is better than G-league

[exstatic]

Man

I was going to plead ignorance because I haven't watched college basketball for a while, and to be honest I don't watch g-league much...
But there's no way NCAA basketball is better than G-league

There will likely be 50 ncaa Players drafted, a scattering of Euros, and maybe 2-3 gleaguers.

[rascal]

There will likely be 50 ncaa Players drafted, a scattering of Euros, and maybe 2-3 gleaguers.

And many of those NCAA draftees the best from the NCAA will end up playing in the Gleague.

[exstatic]

And many of those NCAA draftees the best from the NCAA will end up playing in the Gleague.

Yes, but we’re discussing draft tracks. You can’t be drafted from the NCAA, wind up in the gleague, and be drafted again from there. I don’t hate the gleague, but I do hate it as a draft prep platform. The Ignite, the primary draft conduit, coach and teach nothing. It’s only fractionally better than Overtime Elite.

[scott]

Only about 1.2% of NCAA players make the jump to the NBA. https://www.betus.com.pa/college-basketball/news/what-percentage-of-college-basketball-players-go-to-the-nba/

But over half of G-League players have NBA experience. https://www.nba.com/wizards/nba-g-league-faqs

Which league provides a better draft path is not the same question as which league is tougher competition, which is a quite subjective question that you cannot definitively answer without some consistent NCAA v GLeague competition. But you can fairly objectively say that the G-League has a more talented roster of players (which should not ignore the fact that the NCAA largely feeds the GLeague).

[Ariel]

I think the main factor is the competitive nature of both College and G-League, rather than talent level. I don't think Scoot has ever been the target of a defense like some top College prospects are, or faced the pressure of a defining game. If anything they may be trying to pump his stock to promote Ignite. That's more significant than any other factor IMO. Doesn't mean a good prospect can't come from either path, but I put less stock into G-League stats than College for that reason.

[Dejounte]

This is the order I would draft these guys.


Tier 1 - potential to be an all-time great
-Wemba


Tier 2 - if potential is reached, worthy of being the first max contract on a rebuilding team
-Scoot


Tier 3 - if potential is reached, should be the second max contract with the first already in place. Basically, I’m saying if the team were to build around these guys, the team’s ceiling would probably be 2nd round in the playoffs. Similar to the Paul George-led Pacers.
-Cam Whitmore
-Keyonte George
-Brandon Miller


Tier 4 - A little imagination is needed for their path to stardom, but each have a high floor
-Jarace Walker
-Jordan Hawkins
-Brice Sensabaugh
-Rayan Rupert


Tier 5 - Big boom or bust guys that I would be nervous about if they were drafted… guys who look like they have 0 feel for the game and if it was any other team drafting them, I would have no confidence in the selection. If the Spurs pick them, then they must think they will be able to reign these guys in. Tier 4 and 5 are interchangeable depending on how risky I’d want the team to be.
-Thompson Twins
-GG Jackson


Tier 6 - a lot of imagination is needed for them to reach stardom, otherwise are solid players
-Anthony Black
-Cason Wallace


Tier 7 - Underwhelming players, or guys I would draft any other year (with a lower pick) but this year
-Nick Smith Jr.
-Gradey Dick
-Taylor Hendricks

[Big Empty]

What do yall think of this Wong kid from Miami? I was impressed with him against texas. Think he’l be available in the 2nd round?

[GAustex]

I thought the Kentucky center was super human strong
A second rounder for a rebound machine which translates to the big boy league?

[Mr. Body]

What do yall think of this Wong kid from Miami? I was impressed with him against texas. Think he’l be available in the 2nd round?

He's a four year senior, so I don't think he'll go in the first round (probably). Someone will take him in the 2nd.

[offset formation]

Charlotte continues to dominate Dallas, so looks like a top 7 pick is secured (and only 7% chance of it being that bad)

Yes, but still only twice as likely at getting the #1 pick as getting the #7 pick. That can't continue imho.

As I've been preaching from the rooftops, you've got to find a way to increase the odds for the bottom 5 teams. And if their are perennial tankers then there's also got to be a way to disincentivize that but you can't have bottom 3 teams getting a 14% chance at #1 and 7% at #7 if you actually want the poor performing teams to snag the best athletes/players in each year's draft. Not every team can just reload through free-agency.

This is like capitalism picking winners and losers all while the teams fortunate enough to get free agents will continue to prosper regardless as the small market teams fall by the wayside.

[Mr. Body]

I think the main factor is the competitive nature of both College and G-League, rather than talent level. I don't think Scoot has ever been the target of a defense like some top College prospects are, or faced the pressure of a defining game. If anything they may be trying to pump his stock to promote Ignite. That's more significant than any other factor IMO. Doesn't mean a good prospect can't come from either path, but I put less stock into G-League stats than College for that reason.

Yeah, pretty much the "G-League is better" guys don't really understand what is being discussed. They constantly focus on individual talent but don't really see what competitive basketball actually is. I'll warrant they haven't even watched any G-League itself, either, much less actually played beyond bumping around the local Y once or twice.

It's okay. A player can get better in the G-League, but it doesn't teach game-time situations and overall flow of the game, how to make teammates better or react to difficult situations. I don't think David Robinson or Tim Duncan become the players they were while in the G-League. They had to play college.

[JPB]

Yeah, pretty much the "G-League is better" guys don't really understand what is being discussed. They constantly focus on individual talent but don't really see what competitive basketball actually is. I'll warrant they haven't even watched any G-League itself, either, much less actually played beyond bumping around the local Y once or twice.

It's okay. A player can get better in the G-League, but it doesn't teach game-time situations and overall flow of the game, how to make teammates better or react to difficult situations. I don't think David Robinson or Tim Duncan become the players they were while in the G-League. They had to play college.

Don't worry, we totally understand what's being discussed, because you know, it's not because people disagree with you that, you know, they don't understand the topic... But we still totally disagree with the fact College BB is more "competitive". This is crap. You seem to talk about some fantasy, theorical College BB that doesnt correspond to reality where this is crap, it's competitive because every team is crap. Two scrubs can compete with each other.

And for the record, I certainly played at highest level BB that you did, if you actually ever did... I've no idea why you seem to think that they don't play BB in the G league and you don't learn "game-time situations and overall flow of the game, how to make teammates better or react to difficult situations."... but ofc they do, they don't play Scrabble, it's also BB and these G league guys fight for a spot in the NBA or a contract abroad.

You litterally have an NBA player trashing College BB on vid on this thead, contradicting your arguments (notably great coaches in College), which is NBA players overall opinion..... College BB is crap, unwatchable, kids colliding and somehow putting the ball in the circle here or there, with a vey low total of points on average for a 40 minute game. It's not organized, it's chaos with terrible coaches who are just big daddies. I'd take any euro 3rd string coach any day over these guys who don't even know what a pass and go is... As many people mentioned many times on this forum, kids in America don't learn the fundamentals, the basis of BB, just a bunch of more or less athletic kids running an jumping. I've more fun watching a U16 euro game than College BB and a G league team beat a College team 9 times out of 10.

[Mr. Body]

Don't worry, we totally understand what's being discussed, because you know, it's not because people disagree with you that, you know, they don't understand the topic... But we still totally disagree with the fact College BB is more "competitive". This is crap. You seem to talk about some fantasy, theorical College BB that doesnt correspond to reality where this is crap, it's competitive because every team is crap. Two scrubs can compete with each other.

And for the record, I certainly played at highest level BB that you did, if you actually ever did... I've no idea why you seem to think that they don't play BB in the G league and you don't learn "game-time situations and overall flow of the game, how to make teammates better or react to difficult situations."... but ofc they do, they don't play Scrabble, it's also BB and these G league guys fight for a spot in the NBA or a contract abroad.

You litterally have an NBA player trashing College BB on vid on this thead, contradicting your arguments (notably great coaches in College), which is NBA players overall opinion..... College BB is crap, unwatchable, kids colliding and somehow putting the ball in the circle here or there... It's not organized, it's chaos with terrible coaches who are just big daddies... I'd take any euro 3rd string coach any day over these guys who don't even know what a pass and go is... As many people mentioned many times on this forum, kids in America don't learn the fundamentals, the basis of BB, just a bunch of more or less athletic kids running an jumping... I've more fun watching a U16 euro game than College BB and a G league team beat a College team 9 times out of 10.

Lol, I don't give a shit about what some shitheel NBA guy says about the NCAA. It's not a question about 'what's entertaining'. You and Fox are thinking like an ESPN-fed drone. Some of the stupidest rationales ever -- IT'S UHHHH ENTERTAININ'.

That's not the point. Fox even had a year of Kentucky or whatever, which helped him. He's too stupid to realize what he's talking about. I'll direct you again to Duncan and Robinson. They played for frankly underwhelming college programs, but thereby learned to elevate their teammates, play with their back against the wall, play against teams that were gameplanning for them, and against hostile arenas and teams that absolutely wanted to beat them, badly.

That shit doesn't happen in your glorified, hallowed, puff G-League, where defense doesn't happen. Where guys move up and down the court working on individual skills. Where coaching barely happens.

I get it. It's hard to understand what's going on and what's being discussed. It's like watching guys lift weights at Gold's Gym and thinking you're watching highly coordinated gymnasts or something.

:lol Thinking Fox is someone to listen to on this. Get real.

[Mr. Body]

Hell, even the basics of knowing how to improve comes from good coaching in a program. That absolutely does not happen in G-League where part of the problem is that they are working on individual skills. This is so inane -- thinking that getting shots up on doing dribble drills are improving how you can react in game environments.

Actually, to be honest, Fox was shit for a really long time. Maybe he should have stayed in college? Maybe getting college guys and international players like Sabonis around him improved him? Maybe he's as stupid as most Kentucky players are?

Dunno. Regardless, part of getting better is LEARNING HOW TO GET BETTER. That doesn't happen in G-League, which you chodes don't even watch. LMAO -- it is NOT an exciting league, even by your own terms.

[cd98]

On to more important discussions: who will be the Spurs rep at the lottery. We need luck but we also can’t send someone like Timmy bc lottery groveling is beneath him. I’d say Robert Horry bc he’s big shot, but he’s got that negative energy. Who can we trust with this important but demeaning assignment?

[Dejounte]

Facepalm @ the “trust me bro im right on this”

over-inflated sense of value in one’s own opinions is correct, scott

[offset formation]

On to more important discussions: who will be the Spurs rep at the lottery. We need luck but we also can’t send someone like Timmy bc lottery groveling is beneath him. I’d say Robert Horry bc he’s big shot, but he’s got that negative energy. Who can we trust with this important but demeaning assignment?

Big shot Bob if I trusted his allegiance to the Spurs. But I think we're probab3rd on his list behind the Lakers and Rockets for loyalty to the brand.

[rascal]

Yes, but we’re discussing draft tracks. You can’t be drafted from the NCAA, wind up in the gleague, and be drafted again from there. I don’t hate the gleague, but I do hate it as a draft prep platform. The Ignite, the primary draft conduit, coach and teach nothing. It’s only fractionally better than Overtime Elite.

I'm discussing which is better the NCAA or the Gleague.

[K...]

I doubt in the context of one and drones college matters much more. You really have two hit on right coaches, right opponents etc. Given the spurs have twice picked college underclassmen playing bench roles i dont know how much college coaching helps.

Not that the G league is all that. Moral of the story is drafting 19yr olds sucks

[exstatic]

I'm discussing which is better the NCAA or the Gleague.

That's a different discussion, as this is a draft thread. We're discussion draft preparation and player tracks.

[playblair]

your MLK meme is among the dumbest shit most offensive things I've ever seen posted on this godforsaken board.
:wrongf

[offset formation]

:wrongf

Don't care what meme you post and where. Just be prepared to be called out on it especially if it's ignorance preceeds it and rivals its inflammatory nature.

In the case of your MLK nonsense, there's ample evidence of the idiocy contained in it. Decades, even centuries long irrefutable evidence of unequal opportunities to education, housing, employment, networking, etc and the inability to have generational wealth passed on as is common in white populations. All I'm saying is educate yourself bro. You'd be embarrassed yourself if you did learn why it's sooo off-base.

[BacktoBasics]

:wrongf

You’re right up there as one of the biggest pieces of shit here.

[Mr. Body]

Tankathon has rolled out a new mock draft. Nothing doing at this point, of course, but worth looking at.

Their top 5 is filled out with the Thompsons, although I think they've always had them that high. The rest of the top ten are Jarace and Cam and then Black, Gradey, Hendricks. I pretty much agree those are the top 10 right now. I do think Jordan Hawkins will end up in the lottery. Things are up in the air at 11 on but they usually are.

https://www.tankathon.com/mock_draft

[exstatic]

Tankathon has rolled out a new mock draft. Nothing doing at this point, of course, but worth looking at.

Their top 5 is filled out with the Thompsons, although I think they've always had them that high. The rest of the top ten are Jarace and Cam and then Black, Gradey, Hendricks. I pretty much agree those are the top 10 right now. I do think Jordan Hawkins will end up in the lottery. Things are up in the air at 11 on but they usually are.

https://www.tankathon.com/mock_draft

Dean has switched from a web page to a Substack. He put out a big board of 16 prospects last week. Definitely marches to his own drummer.

https://deanondraft.substack.com/p/sweet-16-big-board

[JPB]

Dean has switched from a web page to a Substack. He put out a big board of 16 prospects last week. Definitely marches to his own drummer.

https://deanondraft.substack.com/p/sweet-16-big-board

Dean About Wemby:

"I would definitely take him behind Luka Doncic. If healthy Joel Embiid, Jaren Jackson Jr., or Evan Mobley were in this draft, it would be a tough decision who to take."...

Hum...

[exstatic]

Dean About Wemby:

"I would definitely take him behind Luka Doncic. If healthy Joel Embiid, Jaren Jackson Jr., or Evan Mobley were in this draft, it would be a tough decision who to take."...

Hum...

I'd probably only pick Mobley, because he is elite two way and had no health issues.

[exstatic]

Dean About Wemby:

"I would definitely take him behind Luka Doncic. If healthy Joel Embiid, Jaren Jackson Jr., or Evan Mobley were in this draft, it would be a tough decision who to take."...

Hum...

Don't forget this part...


But regardless, there isn’t much to say negative about Wemby outside of the injury concerns and he has good odds of becoming a perennial all-star and hall of famer if he stays healthy.

[scott]

Yeah, pretty much the "G-League is better" guys don't really understand what is being discussed. They constantly focus on individual talent but don't really see what competitive basketball actually is. I'll warrant they haven't even watched any G-League itself, either, much less actually played beyond bumping around the local Y once or twice.

It's okay. A player can get better in the G-League, but it doesn't teach game-time situations and overall flow of the game, how to make teammates better or react to difficult situations. I don't think David Robinson or Tim Duncan become the players they were while in the G-League. They had to play college.

I agree with this, however that NCAAB no longer exists. If you have NBA talent, you're on a one-and-done path, not the 4-year development path that Tim and David had. That's a big difference.

[scott]

Lol, I don't give a shit about what some shitheel NBA guy says about the NCAA. It's not a question about 'what's entertaining'. You and Fox are thinking like an ESPN-fed drone. Some of the stupidest rationales ever -- IT'S UHHHH ENTERTAININ'.

That's not the point. Fox even had a year of Kentucky or whatever, which helped him. He's too stupid to realize what he's talking about. I'll direct you again to Duncan and Robinson. They played for frankly underwhelming college programs, but thereby learned to elevate their teammates, play with their back against the wall, play against teams that were gameplanning for them, and against hostile arenas and teams that absolutely wanted to beat them, badly.

That shit doesn't happen in your glorified, hallowed, puff G-League, where defense doesn't happen. Where guys move up and down the court working on individual skills. Where coaching barely happens.

I get it. It's hard to understand what's going on and what's being discussed. It's like watching guys lift weights at Gold's Gym and thinking you're watching highly coordinated gymnasts or something.

:lol Thinking Fox is someone to listen to on this. Get real.

Which lottery picks these days are like Duncan and Robinson, who learned how to play over four years of NCAA basketball?

[scott]

This is the original comment that spurred this conversation. It wasn't about which was better for NBA prep, it was about which competition was tougher.


I think the NBA G league is tougher competition than what he would have faced in in college, and the B athleticism grade is ridiculous you’re reaching on that. He comes into the NBA and is probably the 2nd most athletic guard after Ja Morant.

[Mr. Body]

Which lottery picks these days are like Duncan and Robinson, who learned how to play over four years of NCAA basketball?

... Which is why we get so few players out of the draft who are really ready to play. And when they are, sort of, ready to play, they just use overpowering athleticism and get cheapo stinko Adam Silver calls to bail them out. There's a reason almost all the good young players in the NBA right now are foreigners and the rest are just one-on-one merchants.

[Mr. Body]

Dean has switched from a web page to a Substack. He put out a big board of 16 prospects last week. Definitely marches to his own drummer.

https://deanondraft.substack.com/p/sweet-16-big-board

Well, he sure loves the Duke big men. I notice he barely uses any statistical breakdown, usually his thing. He's just winging it.

[JPB]

This is the original comment that spurred this conversation. It wasn't about which was better for NBA prep, it was about which competition was tougher.

Would you mean some people try to derail the convo when they realize they're on the wrong path?

Tougher competition in a vacuum is exactly what I and other people have been commenting. Yet, some patronizing other(s) try to basically explain that you don't understand what's been discussing ,you don't know BB, and they don't play BB in The G league...

Pointless.

[exstatic]

Well, he sure loves the Duke big men. I notice he barely uses any statistical breakdown, usually his thing. He's just winging it.

He didn’t do it in this piece, but he’s actually an analytics guy, a bettor who turned his math into draft analysis, mostly through statistical comparisons.

He does make me laugh sometimes, though. Like, last year, in his final big board,he had Branham tied at 21 with EJ Liddell, and Blake at 26. Yet, he threw brickbats at the Spurs for picking them at almost exactly those spots In his post draft. He loved Sochan, had him at like 4 or 5. He was also a big Sengün guy in 2021, but in another weirdness, completely ignored his turnstile defense while harshly grading other players for that same thing.

[scott]

Dean, like any other human being, has his share of hits and misses, but is a fun additional data point. Didn't have Jalen Williams on his big board at all, IIRC, and panned OKC for picking him, but was higher than the market on DJM (#13 overall).

Of note, he did have Bassey (#26) rated over other Spurs Weiskamp (#29), Champagnie (#35), Primo (#49) and Mamu (rated as a "Longshot").

It's fun to go back and read some of his big boards because it really hammers home what a crap shoot the draft can be. Anyone remember Dragan Bender?

[DPG21920]

Im legit terrified out of anyone outside of Wemby lol. I would be thrilled with Scoot or Miller having said that, but it’s not like I think they are cant miss at the moment.

[DPG21920]

Dean, like any other human being, has his share of hits and misses, but is a fun additional data point. Didn't have Jalen Williams on his big board at all, IIRC, and panned OKC for picking him, but was higher than the market on DJM (#13 overall).

Of note, he did have Bassey (#26) rated over other Spurs Weiskamp (#29), Champagnie (#35), Primo (#49) and Mamu (rated as a "Longshot").

It's fun to go back and read some of his big boards because it really hammers home what a crap shoot the draft can be. Anyone remember Dragan Bender?

Ya - drafting is so insanely hard lol. Im amazed at how the Spurs have been so constantly good for so long at it. I basically hate every single player in every draft because it’s hard to see things (for me at least)

[scott]

Ya - drafting is so insanely hard lol. Im amazed at how the Spurs have been so constantly good for so long at it. I basically hate every single player in every draft because it’s hard to see things (for me at least)

Yeah I think we continually discount how good the Spurs are this because of misses like Luka and Primo. But getting 3 guys on rookie extensions from pick #29 (DJ, Derrick, KJ) is pretty damn impressive in its own right (and it's not like any of them were bad extensions).

I'm excited for the next update of this, I'm sure we're going to take a big hit because of Primo: https://braydengerrard.shinyapps.io/Draft_Scores/

[MultiTroll]

How would we do with the Cavinder Twins as a 2nd round picks and bringing back Becky?
https://img-s-msn-com.akamaized.net/tenant/amp/entityid/AA196VRD.img?w=306&h=490&m=6&x=171&y=144&s=30&d=30
Cavinder twins and Miami suffer March Madness heartache as LSU win (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/other/cavinder-twins-and-miami-suffer-march-madness-heartache-as-lsu-win/ar-AA196v3u?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=964773689cb64b94804ac64a7988fe07&ei=10)

[Mr. Body]

Yeah I think we continually discount how good the Spurs are this because of misses like Luka and Primo. But getting 3 guys on rookie extensions from pick #29 (DJ, Derrick, KJ) is pretty damn impressive in its own right (and it's not like any of them were bad extensions).

I'm excited for the next update of this, I'm sure we're going to take a big hit because of Primo: https://braydengerrard.shinyapps.io/Draft_Scores/

Primo has to be an incomplete as a score. We don't know how he'd advance as a basketball player. It's like Jay Williams or something - he crashed a motorcycle, ended his career. Doesn't make it a bad pick at the time. We aren't Merlin the magician living backward in time.

[Mr. Body]

He didn’t do it in this piece, but he’s actually an analytics guy, a bettor who turned his math into draft analysis, mostly through statistical comparisons.

He does make me laugh sometimes, though. Like, last year, in his final big board,he had Branham tied at 21 with EJ Liddell, and Blake at 26. Yet, he threw brickbats at the Spurs for picking them at almost exactly those spots In his post draft. He loved Sochan, had him at like 4 or 5. He was also a big Sengün guy in 2021, but in another weirdness, completely ignored his turnstile defense while harshly grading other players for that same thing.

Yeah, I'm familiar with him, which is why him just doing this 'yeah, this guy kind of sucks but I'm ranking him high because of feelings' with Filipowski (especially) is kind of weird. Filipowski is a big lumbering guy who isn't good at what he's supposed to be good at, but Dean is like, "yeah, but what if he gets good?"

[MultiTroll]

Primo has to be an incomplete as a score. We don't know how he'd advance as a basketball player. It's like Jay Williams or something - he crashed a motorcycle, ended his career. Doesn't make it a bad pick at the time. We aren't Merlin the magician living backward in time.
I'm assuming no Primo incidents were known of prior to the draft.

I mean would Dick Tracy have been able to find some flashing instances were he assigned to the Primo case pre draft?

[JPB]

Just learned Miller apparently had a groin injury during the Tournament.

[baseline bum]

Just learned Miller apparently had a groin injury during the Tournament.

Probably too much tossing off to everyone picking him over Scoot for #2

[baseline bum]

Im legit terrified out of anyone outside of Wemby lol. I would be thrilled with Scoot or Miller having said that, but it’s not like I think they are cant miss at the moment.

TBH I'm terrified of Wemby too given how players as tall as him rarely have long and/or consistent NBA careers. Yao, Sabonis, and Sampson are pretty much the best of the best at that size and each of them had terrible injury history. And Sampson wasn't even that good healthy. The only decent player that size I can even think of who wasn't a China doll was Mark Eaton. You gotta take him for his talent but Wemby is no sure thing like Tim or LeBron.

EDIT: Forgot Rik Smits, he wasn't too injury prone either

[Mr. Body]

Just learned Miller apparently had a groin injury during the Tournament.

Yeah, this was stated during the time. I kinda doubt it.

[Vince Carter's ankle]

Dean has switched from a web page to a Substack. He put out a big board of 16 prospects last week. Definitely marches to his own drummer.

https://deanondraft.substack.com/p/sweet-16-big-board
​fine

16. Cam Whitmore
Whitmore is a thick 6’7 at 232 pounds and a good athlete who loves to dunk the ball, and has a decent shot making 35% 3P 72.1% FT. He is also one of the youngest prospects in the class, turning 19 in July after the draft.
But he also plays somewhat like a smaller Jabari Parker, as he is often tries to create with pure brute force and is prone to tunnel vision with 1.1 assists vs 2.4 turnovers per 40. He also drew a curiously low 0.25 FT rate given his style and tools.
He is young enough for this to not be a death knell, and perhaps he can evolve into a Tobias Harris type of NBA player who is a coveted wing. And he is young enough to become even better than Tobias if things go really well.
He is a pure gamble on youth and tools. There is definitely enough there for him to have potential, but it comes attached with some chunky bust risk.

[Dejounte]

The whole GLeague vs College nonsense (and thinking it matters which league a prospect goes to, in general) falls flat on its face when you think about the players who went straight to the NBA from high school when the rules allowed it:

Amare Stoudamire
Dwight Howard
T-Mac
Kevin Garnett
Kobe Bryant
and…
if we’re going to use all-time greats like Duncan & Robinson (which no top prospect follows the 4 year plan these days anymore so they are bad examples anyway)
…LeBron James

I guess these assholes had pointless careers because they didn’t go to college.

i guess they would have been regrettable selections because they didn’t go to college for one year to learn how to handle game-time situations and learn how to make their teammates better. It would totally be the right call to pass on them at the time. Fuck high school tape anyway, these dumbasses should have gone to college to show how competitive they really are. No way the talent they showed in high school is legit.

Lol. And I’m going to throw my own patronizing card in here. I’m going to say people who are this dismissive of players who don’t go to college is just an excuse for their lack of ability to recognize talent when it’s there. Downright ridiculous to say things like “people who think Scoot’s good don’t watch the gleague” when I’ve watched that and college for prospects relentlessly. I’m the last dude who should be accused of that.

[Dejounte]

My best case scenarios for the Spurs:

1) If they land the #1 pick, draft Wemba
2) If they land the #2 pick, draft Scoot
3) If they land pick #3 or below and are unable to make a trade for an additional 1st rd pick, draft Cam Whitmore
4) If they land pick #3 or below and are able to make a trade for another 1st, draft Jarace Walker and one of Jordan Hawkins or Rayan Rupert

Any of these scenarios happen and I’ll be extremely happy (of course none of them will)

[Dejounte]

If Jarace Walker will only be limited to defending bigs in the NBA, then Rayan Rupert might be the best defender in this draft…

[Ariel]

If Jarace Walker will only be limited to defending bigs in the NBA, then Rayan Rupert might be the best defender in this draft…
This is my biggest concern with Jarace Walker, he's more of a stocky 4/5 (and undersized at that), and may not have the easiest path transitioning to defending in the NBA, where he'll find himsef facing wings much faster, skilled and athletic than he's used to. Also his 3 pt shot dipped, and he's not my ideal long term partner with Sochan.
Ryan Rupert sounds ok for mid teens onwards, but if he's our top pick it'd be extremely underwhelming. Depressing, I should say.

[JuneJive]

No love for Wallace?

[Ariel]

I keep hearing about how much he's the next Jrue, but every time I've watched him, I've seen players blow by him plenty. Granted, I didn't watch every bit of every game, but enough of a sample to make me seriously doubt it was just bad luck. Otherwise he's an ok guard, he can handle the ball and he's a good shooter, but his calling card is defense and I don't have anywhere near enough confidence to take him where we'll pick. But he's ok if we find ourselves with an extra late lottery pick (not my first choice though).

[Dejounte]

This is my biggest concern with Jarace Walker, he's more of a stocky 4/5 (and undersized at that), and may not have the easiest path transitioning to defending in the NBA, where he'll find himsef facing wings much faster, skilled and athletic than he's used to. Also his 3 pt shot dipped, and he's not my ideal long term partner with Sochan.
Ryan Rupert sounds ok for mid teens onwards, but if he's our top pick it'd be extremely underwhelming. Depressing, I should say.

Not advocating Rayan for our top pick but in case there is a trade for an additional 1st.

[duncan2150]

This is my biggest concern with Jarace Walker, he's more of a stocky 4/5 (and undersized at that), and may not have the easiest path transitioning to defending in the NBA, where he'll find himsef facing wings much faster, skilled and athletic than he's used to. Also his 3 pt shot dipped, and he's not my ideal long term partner with Sochan.
Ryan Rupert sounds ok for mid teens onwards, but if he's our top pick it'd be extremely underwhelming. Depressing, I should say.

Imo you answer the question about jarace, he's an inside guy who can defend some wings and that's ok if the defense is good overall( wich is the case). I don't have too much concern about the undersized thing as the nba goes smaller and smaller and he's really strong.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKyCEhZD8IQ
Some good stuff here.

Ok about the pairing with Sochan, may not be the ideal pair. Not sure where he could be the pick, the Spurs will pick 7 max so maybe that's where i could start take him.

[duncan2150]

If Jarace Walker will only be limited to defending bigs in the NBA, then Rayan Rupert might be the best defender in this draft…

He could be, he is a really hard worker.

[pad300]

The french kids this year are actually really impressive. Wemby, obviously, but then there are 3 wings: Rayan Rupert (playing in NZ), Bilal Coulibaly (playing in Fra) and Sidy Cissoko (playing in the G-League), all of whom look like they might make it as NBA players...

[Dejounte]

Our front corps is pretty weak behind Sochan— that’s the only reason I’m okay with seeing how Jarace would work, accepting the fact that it might take a little or a lot of imagination for him to become more than what he looks like right now. The apparent upside that he displays on the defensive end is something that could pay off if the Spurs go in that direction.

[BackHome]

Walker is a very good defender he moves his feet really well and his 7’2 wingspan really helps with help side defense. I think he will go around 6 to 9 in the draft as he has been moving up.

[R. DeMurre]

Dean, like any other human being, has his share of hits and misses, but is a fun additional data point. Didn't have Jalen Williams on his big board at all, IIRC, and panned OKC for picking him, but was higher than the market on DJM (#13 overall).

Of note, he did have Bassey (#26) rated over other Spurs Weiskamp (#29), Champagnie (#35), Primo (#49) and Mamu (rated as a "Longshot").

It's fun to go back and read some of his big boards because it really hammers home what a crap shoot the draft can be. Anyone remember Dragan Bender?

He had Jalen Williams at #24.

https://deanondraft.com//?s=2022+big+board&search=Go

[scott]

My best case scenarios for the Spurs:

1) If they land the #1 pick, draft Wemba
2) If they land the #2 pick, draft Scoot
3) If they land pick #3 or below and are unable to make a trade for an additional 1st rd pick, draft Cam Whitmore
4) If they land pick #3 or below and are able to make a trade for another 1st, draft Jarace Walker and one of Jordan Hawkins or Rayan Rupert

Any of these scenarios happen and I’ll be extremely happy (of course none of them will)

Out completely on Miller? For me he is still either option 2 or 3, but I do like Whitmore as the best choice outside of the top 3.

[TXstbobcat]

TBH I'm terrified of Wemby too given how players as tall as him rarely have long and/or consistent NBA careers. Yao, Sabonis, and Sampson are pretty much the best of the best at that size and each of them had terrible injury history. And Sampson wasn't even that good healthy. The only decent player that size I can even think of who wasn't a China doll was Mark Eaton. You gotta take him for his talent but Wemby is no sure thing like Tim or LeBron.

EDIT: Forgot Rik Smits, he wasn't too injury prone either

Smits was really good on those 90’s pacers playoff teams good until nerve problems with his feet ended his career.

[exstatic]

The french kids this year are actually really impressive. Wemby, obviously, but then there are 3 wings: Rayan Rupert (playing in NZ), Bilal Coulibaly (playing in Fra) and Sidy Cissoko (playing in the G-League), all of whom look like they might make it as NBA players...

Wouldn't touch Cissoko with a ten foot pole. He's 6'5", which is pretty average. What is not average is a SG who shoots 31.4% and 64.3% at the line. For some reason, the gleague either can't or wont provide WS or BPM to draft sites, so I'm left with only his dRtg of 121.6 to judge his defense. Not bueno.

[Mr. Body]

Wouldn't touch Cissoko with a ten foot pole. He's 6'5", which is pretty average. What is not average is a SG who shoots 31.4% and 64.3% at the line. For some reason, the gleague either can't or wont provide WS or BPM to draft sites, so I'm left with only his dRtg of 121.6 to judge his defense. Not bueno.

Yeah, but the Miami Lobster Claws and Peoria Ice Cream Cones are incredible competition.

[baseline bum]

Smits was really good on those 90’s pacers playoff teams good until nerve problems with his feet ended his career.

Well shit, so it really is just Mark Eaton at that size as the only guy to have a full and stable NBA career.

[scott]

Yeah, but the Miami Lobster Claws and Peoria Ice Cream Cones are incredible competition.

I’m on the opposite side of this debate, but gotta give props where due… this made me audibly chuckle

[exstatic]

Dean, like any other human being, has his share of hits and misses, but is a fun additional data point. Didn't have Jalen Williams on his big board at all, IIRC, and panned OKC for picking him, but was higher than the market on DJM (#13 overall).

Of note, he did have Bassey (#26) rated over other Spurs Weiskamp (#29), Champagnie (#35), Primo (#49) and Mamu (rated as a "Longshot").

It's fun to go back and read some of his big boards because it really hammers home what a crap shoot the draft can be. Anyone remember Dragan Bender?

He had Jokic #16, and Sengun at #5, so he does know some stuff. In addition he was big on Scottie Barnes and Franz Wagner, pre draft, having them top 5. His profile for Wagner, guy can do a bit of everything, including defend, decent size, low usage, reasonable efficiency, made me want to seek out that kind of player, which is why I'm in on Black and Hendricks.

Definitely a bit of an iconoclast, though.

[JPB]

TBH I'm terrified of Wemby too given how players as tall as him rarely have long and/or consistent NBA careers. Yao, Sabonis, and Sampson are pretty much the best of the best at that size and each of them had terrible injury history. And Sampson wasn't even that good healthy. The only decent player that size I can even think of who wasn't a China doll was Mark Eaton. You gotta take him for his talent but Wemby is no sure thing like Tim or LeBron.

EDIT: Forgot Rik Smits, he wasn't too injury prone either

True but to all the guys named here are 90s 2000s guys (Yao quit in 2011) who were traditional big stiffs. Sport science and surgery have made a lot progress, and to Wemby, the same difference that make him such a unique big (agility and coordination) probably also make him different as far as typical big injuries are concerned. If his body naturally let him do all these smaller player things in a smooth way, we should maybe see him more as a guard injury wise.

[exstatic]

Well shit, so it really is just Mark Eaton at that size as the only guy to have a full and stable NBA career.

Height. Eaton, Smits, and Yao were HUGE, like Frankenstein. Wemby isn't built like that. Might help him skirt those issues.

[Mr. Body]

He had Jokic #16, and Sengun at #5, so he does know some stuff. In addition he was big on Scottie Barnes and Franz Wagner, pre draft, having them top 5. His profile for Wagner, guy can do a bit of everything, including defend, decent size, low usage, reasonable efficiency, made me want to seek out that kind of player, which is why I'm in on Black and Hendricks.

Definitely a bit of an iconoclast, though.

This is touching on something that has been hard to quantify for me, and the reason why I'm attracted to the same players.

I like those multi-dimensional players, even if they might have flaws or gaps in their games, and/or do not and will never project as great scorers. The reason why I was pulling so hard for Sochan last year.

It seems like there's a severe problem with the American game right now, including Canada. Most of the highly touted players are score-only, or they do other things only when the scoring doesn't work in any given possession. The Jalen Green type. I see Scoot in that vein -- supposedly a high-level driver and scorer who gets high level of assists on dump-offs.

Of course, this has always been a problem, with Allen Iverson inaugurating what became an increasingly prevalent archetype over the next two decades. As player like Duncan, Nowitski, Wade, and so on faded, they were replaced by Harden, Westbrook, Durant, who verged further into that format, and now they've been replaced by the D'Aaron Foxes and SGAs who almost exclusively just drive and shoot and get foul shots. Adam Silver's NBA rewards them by making defense nearly impossible.

Boston, for example, is highly effective because they have two supreme iso scorers in Brown and Tatum, but they are incredibly boring to watch and often break down in the clutch.

Anyway, there seems to be something really problematic going on, a deep trend that doesn't look like slowing down. Compounding the problem is how young lottery picks are in the draft. These players, if they are effective, are stuck into the same basic systems of drive and kick, drive and kick. Either you jack a three, or you drive, then the ball gets out to a shooter. Those are the only offensive skills needed. And it seems to be stagnating the league.

[The Truth #6]

^ I agree with this and to me I suppose I could roll with the changes if the game was still competitive but the way they’ve manipulated the refereeing issues for defense makes the game boring. It feels they want highlights and stats, sort of like baseball trying to pump up home runs with live balls and steroids, so to speak.

[heyheymymy]

Looking at the rookie pay scale for the top 5 slots and considering the talent potential drop off after Wemby I'm doubling down on my "give me #1 or give me #6"

Not paying say #2 scale for a possibly non-top 5 talent potential and I can't say there is much difference in intrigue between #2 - #5 range imho

[heyheymymy]

* - with the exception of Miler skill wise but looking at that as a barred consideration for non skill issues.

[Maddog]

Smits was really good on those 90’s pacers playoff teams good until nerve problems with his feet ended his career.


Well shit, so it really is just Mark Eaton at that size as the only guy to have a full and stable NBA career.

Smits still played 70 games at age 33
But yeah you do worry
I'm still think he's literally and figuratively head and shoulders above the rest.
I watched some of the NCAA tournament games this year for the first time in a while and was really unimpressed.
This may be on me not watching college ball and not being able to extrapolate- e.g. Brandon Miller- I was really underwhelmed. Funny shot not able to drive. Injured-maybe, but as Exstatic pointed out he didn't do well on drives all season long.

[exstatic]

Smits still played 70 games at age 33
But yeah you do worry
I'm still think he's literally and figuratively head and shoulders above the rest.
I watched some of the NCAA tournament games this year for the first time in a while and was really unimpressed.
This may be on me not watching college ball and not being able to extrapolate- e.g. Brandon Miller- I was really underwhelmed. Funny shot not able to drive. Injured-maybe, but as Exstatic pointed out he didn't do well on drives all season long.

Actually, he feasted on bottom feeders, but struggled against top 50 KENPOM teams. His overall number wasn't awful, but it was misleading. He's going to have to work on his drive and dish and drive and score at the next level, like a lot.

[Russ]

Not to belabor this, but Kareem Abdul-Jabbar played effectively until he was 42 (and he was 7'2").

[exstatic]

Not to belabor this, but Kareem Abdul-Jabbar played effectively until he was 42 (and he was 7'2").

:rolleyes Apparently, the magic number for your feet falling off in year two is > 7'3", so Kareem just limbos under the wire.

[JPB]

Looking at the rookie pay scale for the top 5 slots and considering the talent potential drop off after Wemby I'm doubling down on my "give me #1 or give me #6"

Not paying say #2 scale for a possibly non-top 5 talent potential and I can't say there is much difference in intrigue between #2 - #5 range imho

Give me the best pick personnally, end of story. I have no idea how these players will actually fare in the NBA and will do in personal workouts or ITVs. Intrigue aside, I can't have the pretention to possess a complete, overall appreciation of this draft and affirm there's no difference because there certainly is, as we'll see until up the draft. For months, scoot was surefire #2... Just give me the best pick as always.

[BackHome]

Not to belabor this, but Kareem Abdul-Jabbar played effectively until he was 42 (and he was 7'2").

Even when young Kareems legs where much thicker- Wemb is Deer like

[Maddog]

Actually, he feasted on bottom feeders, but struggled against top 50 KENPOM teams. His overall number wasn't awful, but it was misleading. He's going to have to work on his drive and dish and drive and score at the next level, like a lot.
Is it a lack of handles, strength or burst? Or some combination there of?
It definitely is concerning as he's going up a huge step in athleticism

And are numbers like this predictive of future problems. It's always said rebound numbers always translate well. And the NBA spacing may be more conducive to driving...

[exstatic]

Is it a lack of handles, strength or burst? Or some combination there of?
It definitely is concerning as he's going up a huge step in athleticism

And are numbers like this predictive of future problems. It's always said rebound numbers always translate well. And the NBA spacing may be more conducive to driving...

He made pretty big strides from his AAU days. He went from a rebounds, steals, blocks guy in EYBL to a legit D1 scorer in a high level conference. He's listed as a SF, so his rebounding is actually in the green at 8.2/game 9.1/36.

I think he's shown he can go up a level. He's just going to need to work hard. He's not likely to be amazing immediately.

[TD 21]

No interest in Walker. Sochan and him can't consistently play together and neither is a good enough prospect to overlook that or the reality that a team this bereft of offensive talent would have no business utilizing their highest pick in 26 years on a player with a role player ceiling.

If/when they land at 4 or lower, I'd first attempt to trade up to 2 or 3 and when that fails, strongly consider trading back. Not a big fan of any option in that range, so if they could trade with the Magic and move back for Whitmore and Wallace for example, that's probably better than anything else.

[duncan2150]

No interest in Walker. Sochan and him can't consistently play together and neither is a good enough prospect to overlook that or the reality that a team this bereft of offensive talent would have no business utilizing their highest pick in 26 years on a player with a role player ceiling.

If/when they land at 4 or lower, I'd first attempt to trade up to 2 or 3 and when that fails, strongly consider trading back. Not a big fan of any option in that range, so if they could trade with the Magic and move back for Whitmore and Wallace for example, that's probably better than anything else.

Overall i agree, the thing about Walker or Black is that they're in play for a pick like 7 imo. They look like role player, maybe the ceilling is high for both but there's some questions.

[The Truth #6]

For some reason I feel like we might pick Keyonte George.

Some hope to a be a scorer at the next level which is the desperate need.
Plays some defense.
Appears photogenic and congenial.
How can they say no to another 6’4” shooting guard?
Has less than ideal athleticism.

Seems like a perfect storm. Sort of joking.

[Mr. Body]

To me, there's a dead spot between 3-6 or so, and I may include 2. I'm not entirely enamored with the players likely to go at those slots. More to the point, I'm not enamored with giving those players high rookie-scale salaries.

I'd rather take Anthony Black at #7 than Scoot Henderson at #2. Maybe that's foolish, but that's how I perceive the costs and risks. It's not that I wouldn't want Scoot on the team, it's that I value paying Scoot the #2 salary slot less than I value paying Black the #7 salary.

I don't think anyone is going to trade Wembanyama if they get him. I don't really value moving up to the 2nd or 3rd pick. Or 4th or 5th, really, since that's the whole 'dead zone' where cost is higher than value (to me).

While I lash this draft a bit as weak, it's because I think the top is weak -- too many question marks. But I think it's relatively deep, or at least from the ~6 to ~20 range. It's a strange draft, then, the number 1 pick higher than usual, the next five to six picks kind of questionable, then value again for the next fifteen picks.

[Russ]

Even when young Kareems legs where much thicker- Wemb is Deer like

On May 16, I'd love to see that deer in the headlights.

[Russ]

To me, there's a dead spot between 3-6 or so, and I may include 2. I'm not entirely enamored with the players likely to go at those slots. More to the point, I'm not enamored with giving those players high rookie-scale salaries.

I'd rather take Anthony Black at #7 than Scoot Henderson at #2. Maybe that's foolish, but that's how I perceive the costs and risks. It's not that I wouldn't want Scoot on the team, it's that I value paying Scoot the #2 salary slot less than I value paying Black the #7 salary.

I don't think anyone is going to trade Wembanyama if they get him. I don't really value moving up to the 2nd or 3rd pick. Or 4th or 5th, really, since that's the whole 'dead zone' where cost is higher than value (to me).

While I lash this draft a bit as weak, it's because I think the top is weak -- too many question marks. But I think it's relatively deep, or at least from the ~6 to ~20 range. It's a strange draft, then, the number 1 pick higher than usual, the next five to six picks kind of questionable, then value again for the next fifteen picks.

If the Spurs are in the last two of the lottery, it could be feast or famine.

Pick one is where you want to be, two may be worse than 5 (depending on whom the Spurs value).

[heyheymymy]

Would be cool to have Jarace Walker and Sochan with one in at all times but you could run either at SF with the other PF and have a pretty insane double trouble on the loose. That could get pretty lock down but was it really worth the tank or a top 5 pick- I don't know and it would def require more building aka another possible tankish season.

One thing I like about Jarace Walker is he is always moving out there. He's like a bloodhound with a nose for the ball. There is a highlight reel of all just defensive close outs on shooters. Always contesting, picks/strips/intercepts/blocks a lot of balls away.

Just love that tenacity and think it would translate well in general in the NBA and then also think the Spurs are the type of team that could enhance that set of traits to make him nasty nasty out there. Hits the 3 ball some which again Spurs can coax out from him an even better ability there too, most likely. Kinda has a weird, not so fluid, flick release might have to look at that. Has a lengthy windup/gather that he will have to trim down too imo. He has a wet floater in the paint though pretty reliable there.

Still feel like Walker is kinda tame overall, not really a sizzling brand of basketball to the eye, just a good player. That's what worries you with such a high pick and not so much super sizzle.

But without #1 and Wemby, starting to next best approve of Jarace Walker. Just hope it's because SA went #5-6/7 though, kinda afraid of a reach from any better selection position than that.

[Russ]

Would be cool to have Jarace Walker and Sochan with one in at all times but you could run either at SF with the other PF and have a pretty insane double trouble on the loose. That could get pretty lock down but was it really worth the tank or a top 5 pick- I don't know and it would def require more building aka another possible tankish season.

That's the problem, this tank could be brilliant or pretty much worthless (in retrospect).

And that's just the way the NBA intended it.

[heyheymymy]

C'est la vie, Russ. As a certain French player might say?

[Russ]

C'est la vie, Russ. As a certain French player might say?

Goes to show you never can tell. :toast

[heyheymymy]

:bobo:

[ace3g]

https://twitter.com/SkinsHoops86/status/1641176748279705601

https://twitter.com/TheAthleticCBB/status/1641138400932577280

https://twitter.com/genius_playbook/status/1641157526652633089

[Dejounte]

Is Andre your nephew, ace? You’ve been pumping up this guy since day 1.

[ace3g]

Is Andre your nephew, ace? You’ve been pumping up this guy since day 1.

:lol nah, just passes my eye test, always appreciate swiss army knife type players.

[rascal]

:lol nah, just passes my eye test, always appreciate swiss army knife type players.

Maybe the Spurs second round pick

[JPB]

You have to take those NCAA stats with a mountain of salt.

[JPB]

Yeah, but the Miami Lobster Claws and Peoria Ice Cream Cones are incredible competition.

Yeah, an 57-52 NCAA game with my young cousins playing each others coached by my uncles for 10 air balls and 12 missed lay ups is so much better than a competition where half of the pro grown men there have or will have an NBA experience.... Sine hey, the arena is full to watch these lost teens, nevermind if most of them will never sniff the NBA.

Is NCAA better for a kid to play BB and a few of them reach the NBA? As of now yes, although this is a new thing and few young guys picked the G league. Put more prospects in the G league and more would be drafted, which could happen soon.

But is NCAA more competitive than the G league? No, obviously.

[bluebellmaniac]

The current #9 on Tankathon could be the Primo replacement we need.

https://tankathon.com/mock_draft

[Ignazzz]

Somehow related: Dick & Primo

[Ariel]

Yeah, an 57-52 NCAA game with my young cousins playing each others coached by my uncles for 10 air balls and 12 missed lay ups is so much better than a competition where half of the pro grown men there have or will have an NBA experience.... Sine hey, the arena is full to watch these lost teens, nevermind if most of them will never sniff the NBA.

Is NCAA better for a kid to play BB and a few of them reach the NBA? As of now yes, although this is a new thing and few young guys picked the G league. Put more prospects in the G league and more would be drafted, which could happen soon.

But is NCAA more competitive than the G league? No, obviously.
https://stats.gleague.nba.com/players/
Luka Samanic (https://stats.gleague.nba.com/player/1629677/) is putting 22 points on 48/33/76 and 8.1 rebounds
Alize Johnson (https://stats.gleague.nba.com/player/1628993/) is putting 15.5 points on over 60% shooting, along with 12.1 rebounds and 4 assists.
Leandro Bolmaro (https://stats.gleague.nba.com/player/1630195/) was putting 12.1 points shooting 48% overall and 38% from 3, along with 6.6 assists and 6.1 rebounds. He was cut by the Jazz recently.
Carlik Jones (https://stats.gleague.nba.com/player/1630637/) is putting up 26.1 points on 48/36/79, along with 7 assists, 4.4 rebounds and 1.7 steals. Went undrafted and doesn't draw interest from NBA teams.
Zavier Simpson (https://stats.gleague.nba.com/player/1630285/) is putting up 16.7 points on 52% FG and 47% 3pt, along with 8.8 assists, 4.4 rebounds and 1.6 steals. Went undrafted and doesn't draw interest from NBA teams.
If the G League was an accurate indication of anything, all of them would be receiving significant attention from NBA teams. Why aren't they? Because teams obviously know the context they're playing in, where virtually every player not on Ignite is either an NBA scrub, filler, or rattling through for a few games.
The G League's main development program (Ignite) doesn't properly set up prospects for the big stage. Just look at Jalen Green, Kuminga, Hardy, etc. None of them are exactly known for fundamentals of playing the right way, they're mostly selfish guys looking to pad their stats.
Now does that mean every College game is good? No, there are plenty embarrassing ones, where guards seem like plumbers that were picked up 5 minutes ahead of the game to fill up for someone missing. But, there are also some (admittedly not most) very competitive games, that you'd be hard pressed to find in the G League.
For instance, last year I fell in love with Sochan watching Baylor North Carolina. He didn't shoot it particularly well, but the competitiveness of the game allowed him to show his versatility, defense, playmaking, and leadership. Right then and there I knew he was a guy I wanted on the Spurs.
When was the last time a G League game had the same effect? The only one I can come up with is Ignite vs Metropolitans, Scoot vs Wemby, and as great as those games were, they aren't representative of the G-League. Most games played by Ignite are against scrubs, not top international talent.
So while there may be some worthwhile players coming from either avenue, and the average G Leaguer may rank higher than the average College player, top College teams have on average more NBA viable prospects than G League teams, and it's not close.

[heyheymymy]

Somehow related: Dick & Primo

Very real chance Orlando is rolling out the Magic Black Dick lineup next year

[Ariel]

Black Dick Bol... size & length. Need to trade for the Kum Bucket.

[Ignazzz]

Black Dick Ball ( Bol) Call me ( Cole) Franz

[heyheymymy]

lol Magic Suggs Black Dick would get an announcer fired

[Dejounte]

I’m going to make this post as short and straight to the point as possible.

Saying that great stats in the g-league isn’t an indicator of success in the NBA (or not being picked up by NBA teams) can easily be turned around by pointing to college players with great stats who go undrafted. Saying that those stats correlate to poor competition is not a good argument because of my above statement.

Pointing to gleague veterans who put up great stats and asking why they don’t get picked up by NBA teams is the same thing as asking why Peter Kiss or Darius Mghee wasn’t picked up by NBA teams last year. Both were top offensive players in college.

JPB’s point is being missed about how the Ignite is a relatively new program. It has only been two? years since it has been introduced and there have been only a handful of players to come out of it with a couple of years on their belt. I think if we’re being honest their careers so far have surpassed many players who have come out of college and it’s only year 2.

This gleague vs college debate reminds me of way back then when people were debating international vs college. Like, in the end, it doesn’t matter. Talent supersedes whatever environment a prospect is in. You have Giddey last year who didn’t really come from a spectacular league, and he put up mediocre stats. And then on the other side, you have Jokic’s team where no worthwhile player has been picked up from there ever since even though his league before produced one of the GOATs.

It’s an outdated idea to say that the best of the best prospects should be picked from certain leagues, especially if you consider the fact they spend one year there for most prospects.

[Mr. Body]

The point about G-League/college really has nothing or very little to do with talent level. That's not really the point. The point is this: where is this player learning how to get better in a team environment, learning how to succeed against difficult environments, take coaching, understand basketball as a holistic thing with complex, moving parts instead of an endless series of spammed individual maneuvers?

Not in G-League. That hasn't happened yet, and the reason why is its basic format: older players working on their own skills in a range of games that do not matter to anybody other than individual success.

No one is disputing that in college you generally get less talented players. The point is that those players are actually organized into effective units on both sides of the ball and the NBA hopefuls among them are forced to process the game at a level that never happens in G-League. Those foundations are important and a player who just plays G-League never gets them there. Once he gets to the NBA, he's not getting them there, either, or much slower, because he does not get game time or does so only slowly.

It's like learning a new language without understanding grammar.

[Dejounte]

To me, it’s less about these gleague players seeing success in the NBA and more the kind of product you guys want to see on the basketball floor. Everybody has their own tastes and what’s appealing to your basketball eye is what’s appealing. I wholly disagree that college is the place to learn basketball “grammar” because you get raw deer-in-headlights players all the time from college and it’s easy to point them out from a Spurs perspective: See Lonnie & Wesley. That argument isn’t as bullet proof as you put it. There’s too much amount of weight placed into this one year of basketball “school” before a prospect goes to the NBA. Like I said pages before, there have been team-centric players who have come straight from high school and had no issues.

I ranted all year in years we had dumb or selfish players like Eubanks, Gay, Patty, etc. Smart, team basketball is what I want to see on the floor. I just don’t believe you can only get those (or not get those) types of players from specific leagues. I don’t limit myself to that.

[heyheymymy]

I'm kinda middle of the road with the NCAA or G League discussion. I was researching the Thompson twins and these tapes from Overtime games were so amateurish. The gameplay was so basic, the coaches looked like clueless bums, the venue was empty, fans were disengaged, nothing big going down at all. I feel like the NCAA is way more manufacturing for a young player. You have real coaches, real staff, data supported gameplans, probably better training and medical staff, there is just so much more support and systems behind the manufacture of young athletes into professionals in the NCAA.

Competition in the NCAA would bring so much more diversity and experience. Those Overtime tapes showed nothing on that same level. Just dead gameplay.

At the same time, how many NCAA games are against shit programs like Louisiana A&M or some shit, playing against Colgate or like Long Island U.

Go look at UCONN, in the Final Four, but their season is peppered with 85-54 wins over shit like Stonehill (who tf?) you think UNC Wilmington is so different from some G League teams in terms of competition? This is a glorified high School JV team imho and the score reflects that.

I think going up against say a Coach K type or a sterling prestigious program like say UCLA or UNC, that is basically a NBA game in terms of talent, coaching exp, system ran on court, medical team, and data analysis staffers. You are def getting a little NBA test run with facing that level of competition. But so much of these seasons and what the seeding is based on is just wallopings of like Delaware St 95-60 or something. And what future fruits does that bear for young players? Also the NCAA has existed a lot longer than Overtime type stuff, maybe the talent gap will narrow as we go along.

But yes, right now, and depending on who you faced, an NCAA season probably drastically better tests and prepares a young athlete for pro ball considerably moreso than G league.

[JPB]

https://stats.gleague.nba.com/players/
Luka Samanic (https://stats.gleague.nba.com/player/1629677/) is putting 22 points on 48/33/76 and 8.1 rebounds
Alize Johnson (https://stats.gleague.nba.com/player/1628993/) is putting 15.5 points on over 60% shooting, along with 12.1 rebounds and 4 assists.
Leandro Bolmaro (https://stats.gleague.nba.com/player/1630195/) was putting 12.1 points shooting 48% overall and 38% from 3, along with 6.6 assists and 6.1 rebounds. He was cut by the Jazz recently.
Carlik Jones (https://stats.gleague.nba.com/player/1630637/) is putting up 26.1 points on 48/36/79, along with 7 assists, 4.4 rebounds and 1.7 steals. Went undrafted and doesn't draw interest from NBA teams.
Zavier Simpson (https://stats.gleague.nba.com/player/1630285/) is putting up 16.7 points on 52% FG and 47% 3pt, along with 8.8 assists, 4.4 rebounds and 1.6 steals. Went undrafted and doesn't draw interest from NBA teams.
If the G League was an accurate indication of anything, all of them would be receiving significant attention from NBA teams. Why aren't they? Because teams obviously know the context they're playing in, where virtually every player not on Ignite is either an NBA scrub, filler, or rattling through for a few games.
The G League's main development program (Ignite) doesn't properly set up prospects for the big stage. Just look at Jalen Green, Kuminga, Hardy, etc. None of them are exactly known for fundamentals of playing the right way, they're mostly selfish guys looking to pad their stats.
Now does that mean every College game is good? No, there are plenty embarrassing ones, where guards seem like plumbers that were picked up 5 minutes ahead of the game to fill up for someone missing. But, there are also some (admittedly not most) very competitive games, that you'd be hard pressed to find in the G League.
For instance, last year I fell in love with Sochan watching Baylor North Carolina. He didn't shoot it particularly well, but the competitiveness of the game allowed him to show his versatility, defense, playmaking, and leadership. Right then and there I knew he was a guy I wanted on the Spurs.
When was the last time a G League game had the same effect? The only one I can come up with is Ignite vs Metropolitans, Scoot vs Wemby, and as great as those games were, they aren't representative of the G-League. Most games played by Ignite are against scrubs, not top international talent.
So while there may be some worthwhile players coming from either avenue, and the average G Leaguer may rank higher than the average College player, top College teams have on average more NBA viable prospects than G League teams, and it's not close.

I give up on explaining we're talking about level of competition. College teams may have on average more NBA viable prospects than G League teams, which make since the G league is motly made for NBA teams to develop rooks or fringe NBA players) but they're still College players without pro experience and still not NBA players... And first of all, they're spread out all over the NCAA, not all in a few teams. It's not NCAA vs G League, it's NCAA teams vs. G league teams, as far as level of competition is concerned.

G league teams rosters are filled with older, more experienced players and NBA rooks, half of them ultimately with an NBA experience.. They may be mediocre, but that's somehow a coherent BB team... NCAA teams are one or a couple NBA prospects + bunch of scrubs who won't even turn pro... Put them on the floor and the G League mostly win.. There are huge holes in any NCAA team with amateur kids who shoudn't even be there. That's like playing street ball with one team of mediocre to decent guys vs. one team with one or two nice players + kids... The first team is better and always win, like a G League team vs. NCAA one.

[Dejounte]

heyheymymy just fyi OTE isn’t part of the gleague

[heyheymymy]

Thanks DJ good call yeah I got the terminology mixed up there for sure. Just substitute G League for OTE not sure what I was thinking

[Russ]

There's gotta be a lot of guys with stats in both leagues (college and G). That was, and still is, a normal path.

Using those guys as a control group might provide a nice comparison -- the same player's stats in both venues could help evaluate the two leagues and the players coming out of them.

(In other words, this debate may not be as abstract and unknowable as we think.)

[R. DeMurre]

Well shit, so it really is just Mark Eaton at that size as the only guy to have a full and stable NBA career.


In a seven year stretch, Manute Bol played 80, 82, 77, 80, 75, 82, & 71 games, playing about 20 mpg, and Shawn Bradley had two seasons where he played all 82 games, plus seasons of 81, 79, 79, 77, 77, and 73 games.

[exstatic]

In a seven year stretch, Manute Bol played 80, 82, 77, 80, 75, 82, & 71 games, playing about 20 mpg, and Shawn Bradley had two seasons where he played all 82 games, plus seasons of 81, 79, 79, 77, 77, and 73 games.

Both of them were thin, not unlike Wemby. It's mostly the hulking brutes that have the health problems.

[Mr. Body]

Chet isn't hulking and it took barely a bump from LeBron to put him out a season.

[BatManu20]

Brandon Miller officially declared today.

1641514541241491457

[spurraider21]

Chet isn't hulking and it took barely a bump from LeBron to put him out a season.
he got hurt from his foot, its not like he dislocated a shoulder because he cant handle contact

[exstatic]

Chet isn't hulking and it took barely a bump from LeBron to put him out a season.

It was a Lisfranc fracture, which until recently in sports terms, had only been seen in car crashes. Upstairs, it may have been a bump, but there was some serious torsion on that foot.

I can almost guarantee you that if we get Wemby, Pop will explain to him that he needs to not play in any stupid pickup games.

[JPB]

French top league isn't the NBA but it's still pro ball and Wemby didn't have any major injury this year, with a very high usage rate. The team is litterally build around him and he's gonna end up MVP... He missed part of last season but I guess they adapted and that might not be due to his size or frame anyway.

We should maybe wait to see how it's going for him in the NBA before panicking about injuries. He's one of kind so he might be also on the medical part.

[scott]

If there is ever going to be a tall, skinny MFer who is prepared to take on the physical punishment of the NBA, I feel like it’s Wemby. Dude is going to have the world’s best scientists taking care of him like he’s Steve Rodgers taking the serum to become Capt America. I feel like injuries are mainly just the combination of freak accidents that put forces on your body combined with your body’s preparedness to deal with those forces. I feel like Wemby will be as well prepared for that relative to his frame as anyone who’s ever stepped foot on the court. There is too much $ on the line for this not to be the case.

[The Truth #6]

Random idea/question.

OKC has three quality point guards. We have zero. We may have a high lottery pick. Presti masturbates to lottery picks.

So if we don’t get Wemby, would you trade pick #2, 3, or 4 for Josh Giddey? (I don’t see them trading the other two but rather build around them.)

Just spitballing.

[exstatic]

Random idea/question.

OKC has three quality point guards. We have zero. We may have a high lottery pick. Presti masturbates to lottery picks.

So if we don’t get Wemby, would you trade pick #2, 3, or 4 for Josh Giddey? (I don’t see them trading the other two but rather build around them.)

Just spitballing.

No. Who are the OKC PGs besides Giddey?

[TD 21]

You're both wrong. The Thunder have two quality PG's, Gilgeous-Alexander and Giddey.

I wouldn't consider trading 2 or 3 for the latter, 4 is debatable but I don't see either side being interested and even though I don't love the options, (Amen) Thompson, for example, is actually similar to Giddey, only younger and in another universe athletically, so I don't see the point.

[Mr. Body]

Tre Jones is more of a PG than Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, who is strictly a shooting guard.

[Ariel]

Random idea/question.

OKC has three quality point guards. We have zero. We may have a high lottery pick. Presti masturbates to lottery picks.

So if we don’t get Wemby, would you trade pick #2, 3, or 4 for Josh Giddey? (I don’t see them trading the other two but rather build around them.)

Just spitballing.
Giddey is a proven, above average starting PG right now, and likely future all star... and he's 20 and stands at 6'7". His outside shot (biggest weakness) is improving.
If we could get him for #2 even, we should pull the trigger. I don't think Presti moves him for #2 even. Him for #4 is downright armed robbery.

[duncan2150]

Random idea/question.

OKC has three quality point guards. We have zero. We may have a high lottery pick. Presti masturbates to lottery picks.

So if we don’t get Wemby, would you trade pick #2, 3, or 4 for Josh Giddey? (I don’t see them trading the other two but rather build around them.)

Just spitballing.

IMO there's 0 chance they trade Giddey but if i can yes i can trade a top pick for him. Depends on what i think of Henderson.

[Ariel]

French top league isn't the NBA but it's still pro ball and Wemby didn't have any major injury this year, with a very high usage rate. The team is litterally build around him and he's gonna end up MVP... He missed part of last season but I guess they adapted and that might not be due to his size or frame anyway.

We should maybe wait to see how it's going for him in the NBA before panicking about injuries. He's one of kind so he might be also on the medical part.
I was very impressed with the early reports on how he's taking care of his body at 19 years old, with longevity in mind. That kind of awareness and work ethic is great to see, and speaks highly of his intelligence and commitment. That's very important because, to improve his long term outlook, he should be under a load management routine from the start, to maximize his impact when it counts the most (playoffs) and for as long as possible. If he had that "stat driven" mindset a lot of youngers nowadays have, that'd be detrimental to him long term. But his mindset and the Spurs approach seem like a match made in heaven, I think Wemby and the Spurs are by far each others' best option looking forward.

[The Truth #6]

No. Who are the OKC PGs besides Giddey?

SGA has been considered a point guard.
Jalen Williams has been considered a point guard.

[baseline bum]

If there is ever going to be a tall, skinny MFer who is prepared to take on the physical punishment of the NBA, I feel like it’s Wemby. Dude is going to have the world’s best scientists taking care of him like he’s Steve Rodgers taking the serum to become Capt America.

Unless Portland wins the lottery.

[The Truth #6]

Tre Jones is more of a PG than Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, who is strictly a shooting guard.

Oh, well I guess we’re set then. To use one of your favorite phrases, are you an idiot? You’re missing the obvious point. They have three very good ball dominant guards and Presti loves draft picks. We need a point guard and Giddey would be the weakest of their three, though would be great for us.

Anyway, moving on…

[Ariel]

Oh, well I guess we’re set then. To use one of your favorite phrases, are you an idiot? You’re missing the obvious point. They have three very good ball dominant guards and Presti loves draft picks. We need a point guard and Giddey would be the weakest of their three, though would be great for us.
They can all act as lead guards but their skill sets are complementary: Giddey is more of a playmaker, SGA is more of a scorer, and Jalen Williams is more of an all around guard/wing who excels at playing off ball as well. Not like, say, Detroit getting Scoot on top of Ivey or Cunningham, or Charlotte with Lamelo already aboard. So they won't move any of them unless it's for a ridiculous price tag.

[rascal]

he got hurt from his foot, its not like he dislocated a shoulder because he cant handle contact

Still looks to be made out of glass. Lost his entire first year before it even began.

[scott]

Even if you can consider SGA, Giddey and Jalen Williams as point guards at times, the fact is they can all play together. Further, whoever they’d pick at #2 or 3 is going to be just as redundant as one of those 3 (Scoot, Miller or even a Thompson).

On the other hand, if this was last year’s draft and they were looking to add a premier big to their lineup, I could see it.

Trying to think of who might covet #2, ORL comes to mind because they have lots of young talent already and might view a PG like Scoot as the final piece in their rebuild and may not want the burden of developing two top 10 picks. I’m not sure who else might have an abundance of talent in a certain area that they’d feel like they’d want to swap it out for Scoot. Brandon Miller might actually be more enticing for a lot of teams in that regard.

[The Truth #6]

Sure they can all play together. Jalen is very adaptable with his skills. I see a player exploding right now and I guess I just have doubts that he’ll want to stay off the ball moving forward in the future. Would it be better for them with Jalen at point guard, SGA as the shooting, guard, and Brandon Miller as a shooter? Who knows, just speculating.

[scott]

No beef with the speculation at all, that’s what makes this message board fun (and I don’t think anyone should be called an idiot for throwing out ideas we can speculate on). There doesn’t seem to be enough obvious upside to me for this to be worth it for OKC. Seems like you’d be breaking up the trio of SGA/Giddy/JWill in hopes of having a trio as good as SGA/Giddy/JWill.

[Dejounte]

Out completely on Miller? For me he is still either option 2 or 3, but I do like Whitmore as the best choice outside of the top 3.

Nah, I’m not completely out. He’s like #5 on my board. It’s like Jabari Smith last year, I don’t buy that he’s the second best prospect in the draft even though it’s the consensus. Year after year it never works out like that. Shooter archetypes like him have to show he’s elite in that aspect to warrant the hype but he’s really only above average. I mean, he’ll definitely have some big shooting games that makes it look like so, that’s what chuckers do. A team that gives him that much freedom will allow him to thrive. I don’t think the Spurs will give him the keys that early nor do I think he’s a guy the current roster (at least the core ones) will rally around… some fans might not think this matters, but IMO, the Spurs operate that way.

[rascal]

he got hurt from his foot, its not like he dislocated a shoulder because he cant handle contact

Yao Ming always had foot problems and it ended his career.

[exstatic]

Yao Ming always had foot problems and it ended his career.

Yao was also 300 lbs.

[rascal]

No beef with the speculation at all, that’s what makes this message board fun (and I don’t think anyone should be called an idiot for throwing out ideas we can speculate on). There doesn’t seem to be enough obvious upside to me for this to be worth it for OKC. Seems like you’d be breaking up the trio of SGA/Giddy/JWill in hopes of having a trio as good as SGA/Giddy/JWill.

They aren't likely breaking that up and OK City most likely will be adding a lottery pick of their own.

[rascal]

Even if you can consider SGA, Giddey and Jalen Williams as point guards at times, the fact is they can all play together. Further, whoever they’d pick at #2 or 3 is going to be just as redundant as one of those 3 (Scoot, Miller or even a Thompson).

On the other hand, if this was last year’s draft and they were looking to add a premier big to their lineup, I could see it.

Trying to think of who might covet #2, ORL comes to mind because they have lots of young talent already and might view a PG like Scoot as the final piece in their rebuild and may not want the burden of developing two top 10 picks. I’m not sure who else might have an abundance of talent in a certain area that they’d feel like they’d want to swap it out for Scoot. Brandon Miller might actually be more enticing for a lot of teams in that regard.

Utah has three first round draft picks. They can package their top two to get a higher pick and still have a second pick.

[rascal]

Even if you can consider SGA, Giddey and Jalen Williams as point guards at times, the fact is they can all play together. Further, whoever they’d pick at #2 or 3 is going to be just as redundant as one of those 3 (Scoot, Miller or even a Thompson).

On the other hand, if this was last year’s draft and they were looking to add a premier big to their lineup, I could see it.

Trying to think of who might covet #2, ORL comes to mind because they have lots of young talent already and might view a PG like Scoot as the final piece in their rebuild and may not want the burden of developing two top 10 picks. I’m not sure who else might have an abundance of talent in a certain area that they’d feel like they’d want to swap it out for Scoot. Brandon Miller might actually be more enticing for a lot of teams in that regard.

Would you trade #2 to Utah for #6 and #15?

[mo7888]

Would you trade #2 to Utah for #6 and #15?

I wouldn't...but I might trade #3 for #6 + #15

[Ariel]

Would you trade #2 to Utah for #6 and #15?
No, but if Cam Whitmore is available at 6 and they throw in an extra pick besides #15, I might.

[rascal]

No, but if Cam Whitmore is available at 6 and they throw in an extra pick besides #15, I might.


Asking too much to be asking for all three first round picks from Utah.

[Ariel]

Asking too much to be asking for all three first round picks from Utah.
Did Danny Ainge refrain himself from asking high when he was dealing with Minnesota, Cleveland & NY? He sure didn't. He named his price, and if someone was willing to meet him there, great, if not... moving along. Same thing here. If we have no. 2 and he wants it, a mid first rounder won't cut it IMO. Otherwise just f him and use the pick. You can't always accommodate everyone else first.

[exstatic]

No, but if Cam Whitmore is available at 6 and they throw in an extra pick besides #15, I might.

You don’t draft someone, and hope the trade materializes. You have to agree to 2 for 6 and 15 before the clock expires on 2.

A better trade might be Orlando. If Chicago doesn’t jump in to the top 4, their pick goes to Orlando. If they’re 4 or 5, we might be able to get 4 or 5 and 10.

[rascal]

You don’t draft someone, and hope the trade materializes. You have to agree to 2 for 6 and 15 before the clock expires on 2.

A better trade might be Orlando. If Chicago doesn’t jump in to the top 4, their pick goes to Orlando. If they’re 4 or 5, we might be able to get 4 or 5 and 10.

Trades can happen after the pick.

[Mr. Body]

Utah would have to give more than 6 and 15 for #2. That's not enough.

[Ariel]

You don’t draft someone, and hope the trade materializes. You have to agree to 2 for 6 and 15 before the clock expires on 2.

A better trade might be Orlando. If Chicago doesn’t jump in to the top 4, their pick goes to Orlando. If they’re 4 or 5, we might be able to get 4 or 5 and 10.
You definitely can, if we're talking about the same guy you have no. 2. You take him, wait until 6, and if your other option is available then you pull the trigger. Otherwise you keep him and no trade. It happened lots of times. Orlando is another option, sure. No option should go without proper evaluation.

[rascal]

You don’t draft someone, and hope the trade materializes. You have to agree to 2 for 6 and 15 before the clock expires on 2.

A better trade might be Orlando. If Chicago doesn’t jump in to the top 4, their pick goes to Orlando. If they’re 4 or 5, we might be able to get 4 or 5 and 10.

Of course Orlando is better and you talk first with them but Utah is more likely to trade two of their three first round picks so that is the more likely trade partner.

[rascal]

Utah would have to give more than 6 and 15 for #2. That's not enough.

Cam and Jalen Hood-Shifino or Scoot which is the better side?

[exstatic]

Trades can happen after the pick.

Yes, but that’s usually because the team trading down doesn’t want anyone to know those picks are theirs so teams ahead of those picks do not jump in and grab players the trading down team might want/need. You’ll have trust me that no one trades back on a hope and a prayer, and the deal is agreed upon before the first pick is made. They just delay announcing it for draft purposes.

[exstatic]

Of course Orlando is better and you talk first with them but Utah is more likely to trade two of their three first round picks so that is the more likely trade partner.

You don’t know Danny Ainge at all.

[rascal]

Everyone wants a slam dunk trade steal of course but sometimes there is a hesitation and a little doubt which side is better and those are what trades are about.

Trades have to be attractive to the other team too.

[rascal]

You don’t know Danny Ainge at all.

Neither do you

[rascal]

Yes, but that’s usually because the team trading down doesn’t want anyone to know those picks are theirs so teams ahead of those picks do not jump in and grab players the trading down team might want/need. You’ll have trust me that no one trades back on a hope and a prayer, and the deal is agreed upon before the first pick is made. They just delay announcing it for draft purposes.

Teams don't draft what other teams want. They draft what they want.

[exstatic]

Neither do you

Yes I do. He acquires a war chest of picks, never trades them, and wastes half of them.

[rascal]

Yes I do. He acquires a war chest of picks, never trades them, and wastes half of them.

That's when he deals his stars but it's a different game when he is trading up for the number two pick.

It's possible he trades two of his first rounders for #2.

[JPB]

You don’t draft someone, and hope the trade materializes. You have to agree to 2 for 6 and 15 before the clock expires on 2.

A better trade might be Orlando. If Chicago doesn’t jump in to the top 4, their pick goes to Orlando. If they’re 4 or 5, we might be able to get 4 or 5 and 10.

In Disneyland maybe. I don't know if you trade 4, 5 and 10 for #2 but I know nobody else does in this draft.

[exstatic]

In Disneyland maybe. I don't know if you trade 4, 5 and 10 for #2 but I know nobody else does in this draft.

Reading is fundamental. Not 4,5,10; 4 OR 5 (depending on where Orlando is) and 10

[BackHome]

I think it's 4th OR 5th and 10th for #2pick

[scott]

To your question rascal, I am not sure I do 2 for 6 and 15. I really don’t want a second FRP, tbh, because I think it creates a little too much strain on our development program with Sochan, Bran and Blake in year 2 plus Bassey deserving of developmental staff attention. I’m interested in the 2nd pick if it means Cam and Black, but I’m not sure about adding another talent in a tier below Black (and I don’t know enough about Hood-Schifino at this point).

At this point Cam is my definite target after the top 3. Hopefully though we just get #1 and don’t have to worry about it.

[buttsR4rebounding]

To your question rascal, I am not sure I do 2 for 6 and 15. I really don’t want a second FRP, tbh, because I think it creates a little too much strain on our development program with Sochan, Bran and Blake in year 2 plus Bassey deserving of developmental staff attention. I’m interested in the 2nd pick if it means Cam and Black, but I’m not sure about adding another talent in a tier below Black (and I don’t know enough about Hood-Schifino at this point).

At this point Cam is my definite target after the top 3. Hopefully though we just get #1 and don’t have to worry about it.

If the Spurs did trade back I think it’s more likely given their cap situation it is for a pick and a young player with some seasoning. It is too difficult to try to develop 6 players at the same time—7 if you keep the 32nd/33rd pick.

[mo7888]

Of course Orlando is better and you talk first with them but Utah is more likely to trade two of their three first round picks so that is the more likely trade partner.

I disagree... Utah is just starting the ainge rebuild... Orlando is nearing the 'pay veterans to surround paolo and Franz page'...I don't think Orlando wants to add 2 rookies to there roster... they'll look for a trade, if not us then somewhere else.