Draft projects to watch besides Wembanyama & Henderson

[The Truth #6]

Cam Whitmore:

Anyone here big on him? Barely know him yet. Brief and initial impression was he’s fairly similar to Keldon Johnson but with higher leaping and better potential on defense, but similar challenges with passing and playing on ball.

[JPB]

Reading is fundamental. Not 4,5,10; 4 OR 5 (depending on where Orlando is) and 10

I blame the font... My bad.

[Ariel]

Cam Whitmore:

Anyone here big on him? Barely know him yet. Brief and initial impression was he’s fairly similar to Keldon Johnson but with higher leaping and better potential on defense, but similar challenges with passing and playing on ball.
I am. He's taller (1 or 2 inches) and much stronger and more athletic than Keldon. Tends to use his strength to bully his way to the rim, and he's got some crafty moves around the basket. He's usually described as playing "above the rim", and though he can dazzle you at times, his great footwork helps him get the job done. Good shooter, very young (18 y.o.), experienced (played for team USA). Much better defensive prospect. Sort of a 3/4 tweener, but probably more of an undersized 4 (looks more like 6'6" to me). The biggest concern for me is he doesn't seem to have a great IQ, can be a bit of a black hole and turns the ball over too much. But in context, with a smart team around him and a bit of time, I think he's probably one of the safest guys we can pick from 4 onwards, on top of having a truly high ceiling... I think he can be a several time all star. He's on my shortlist, surely at 4 or lower, and I'd even consider him before that.

[JPB]

Cam Whitmore:

Anyone here big on him? Barely know him yet. Brief and initial impression was he’s fairly similar to Keldon Johnson but with higher leaping and better potential on defense, but similar challenges with passing and playing on ball.

I like him and believe there's potential for a star under spurs development program. Seems smoother and more talented than Keldon to me.. Some work to do but he's right there after Wemby and Miller* in my book.

[JPB]

And I agree about better defense.

[The Truth #6]

If you draft him it does potentially put Keldon in the hot seat imho, but too soon to say.

[mo7888]

Cam Whitmore:

Anyone here big on him? Barely know him yet. Brief and initial impression was he’s fairly similar to Keldon Johnson but with higher leaping and better potential on defense, but similar challenges with passing and playing on ball.

I am... #4 on my board and I'm tempted to move him to #3... He's a high ceiling athlete..

[buttsR4rebounding]

If you draft him it does potentially put Keldon in the hot seat imho, but too soon to say.

Although Keldon played a little bit better defense than I expected this year IMHO he is an energy guy off the bench for a contender. Depending on who you draft I think you look to sell high on Keldon sometime over the next couple of years.

[The Truth #6]

I am... #4 on my board and I'm tempted to move him to #3... He's a high ceiling athlete..

He definitely looks to have classic quick twitch, high leaping. But I’m trying to figure out his lateral quickness and agility, the less celebrated forms of athleticism if you know what I mean. Like, Sochan was considered “average” by some people, but is so agile and quick with his feet. I see that type of athleticism more useful.

Anyway, not saying Cam doesn’t have that. Still learning about him.

[mo7888]

He definitely looks to have classic quick twitch, high leaping. But I’m trying to figure out his lateral quickness and agility, the less celebrated forms of athleticism if you know what I mean. Like, Sochan was considered “average” by some people, but is so agile and quick with his feet. I see that type of athleticism more useful.

Anyway, not saying Cam doesn’t have that. Still learning about him.

That's a legitimate question... I'm wondering if he's going to participate in agility drill at the combine or just do that individually for teams...if it's the latter I hope that leaks out..

[heyheymymy]

Great thoughts all. Really helps shape out the different possibilities. Let's see some top 3 picks in the event Wemby is gone, who are your next 3 wants for the Spurs lottery pick? Any updated top 3 targets for both 2RPs? Assume SA doesn't trade up/down, out or away, and picks all slots at their typical odds ranges.

Top 3 in the event Wemby is already gone when Spurs select their FRP:

(barring Brandon Miller for non-skills issues, ranked #1 if not for that)

1. Cam Whitmore
2. Jarace Walker
3. Taylor Hendricks

Targets for Spurs 2RPs

Top 3 SA 2RP:

1. Julian Strawther
2. Trayce Jackson-Davis
3. Kobe Bufkin


Top 3 TOR 2RP:

1. Andre Jackson Jr
2. Coleman Hawkins
3. Azuolas Tubelis

Looking for some input and concerns welcomed. Trying to determine those most realistic, most optimal outcomes.

[The Truth #6]

I’m still intrigued by Keyonte George, depending on our draft position. Love the skills and potential. But trying to figure out his bust potential. Is it the perceived lack of athleticism (like Johnny Davis), the poor decision making (like Dion Waiters so to speak)?

I guess part of me wonders if he and Amen are actually higher on the Spurs list than most would think. They need someone who can succeed with the ball and create. Just spitballing.

[BacktoBasics]

I’m still intrigued by Keyonte George, depending on our draft position. Love the skills and potential. But trying to figure out his bust potential. Is it the perceived lack of athleticism (like Johnny Davis), the poor decision making (like Dion Waiters so to speak)?

I guess part of me wonders if he and Amen are actually higher on the Spurs list than most would think. They need someone who can succeed with the ball and create. Just spitballing.Isn’t George older?

[mo7888]

Great thoughts all. Really helps shape out the different possibilities. Let's see some top 3 picks in the event Wemby is gone, who are your next 3 wants for the Spurs lottery pick? Any updated top 3 targets for both 2RPs? Assume SA doesn't trade up/down, out or away, and picks all slots at their typical odds ranges.

Top 3 in the event Wemby is already gone when Spurs select their FRP:

(barring Brandon Miller for non-skills issues, ranked #1 if not for that)

1. Cam Whitmore
2. Jarace Walker
3. Taylor Hendricks

Targets for Spurs 2RPs

Top 3 SA 2RP:

1. Julian Strawther
2. Trayce Jackson-Davis
3. Kobe Bufkin


Top 3 TOR 2RP:

1. Andre Jackson Jr
2. Coleman Hawkins
3. Azuolas Tubelis

Looking for some input and concerns welcomed. Trying to determine those most realistic, most optimal outcomes.

I really like Bufkin for that 2nd round pick if he's available. I have him late 20's in the first.

If we don't get Wembanyama then I'm for Scoot at #2, after that it gets interesting. My next Tier is 3-9 so I'm highest on trying to get 2 picks in that range by trading down if we land at #3. Ideally I'd like to get a PG or someone who could project as a PG and a front court player. I see a lot of upside in the top 10 and a lot of risk after #2. I'm pretty excited about this draft and I'm ready to see the order... patience isn't my best attribute..

[The Truth #6]

Isn’t George older?

He was a freshman so I think 19?

[The Truth #6]

I really like Bufkin for that 2nd round pick if he's available. I have him late 20's in the first.

If we don't get Wembanyama then I'm for Scoot at #2, after that it gets interesting. My next Tier is 3-9 so I'm highest on trying to get 2 picks in that range by trading down if we land at #3. Ideally I'd like to get a PG or someone who could project as a PG and a front court player. I see a lot of upside in the top 10 and a lot of risk after #2. I'm pretty excited about this draft and I'm ready to see the order... patience isn't my best attribute..

I’d love two of: Black, Hendricks, Keyonte, Walker. But I’m wondering if lots of GMs are less enthused about a high pick as well, relatively speaking.

[BacktoBasics]

He was a freshman so I think 19?

I have him confused with someone else. I thought he was 22

[BackHome]

I am. He's taller (1 or 2 inches) and much stronger and more athletic than Keldon. Tends to use his strength to bully his way to the rim, and he's got some crafty moves around the basket. He's usually described as playing "above the rim", and though he can dazzle you at times, his great footwork helps him get the job done. Good shooter, very young (18 y.o.), experienced (played for team USA). Much better defensive prospect. Sort of a 3/4 tweener, but probably more of an undersized 4 (looks more like 6'6" to me). The biggest concern for me is he doesn't seem to have a great IQ, can be a bit of a black hole and turns the ball over too much. But in context, with a smart team around him and a bit of time, I think he's probably one of the safest guys we can pick from 4 onwards, on top of having a truly high ceiling... I think he can be a several time all star. He's on my shortlist, surely at 4 or lower, and I'd even consider him before that.

Pretty much agree with everything I was going to throw this question out there "Is Cam a PF or a SF" but I agree I think he is a tweener. As far as my impressions have said he is a much better Keldon which is not a bad thing to say as I like him as a player. The difference is that Cam is just way more athletic and WAY more explosive then Keldon as far as height in the beginning I was reading he is 6'7 but now I am seeing 6'6 so will see when it comes to combine numbers I have also seen wingspan is 7'0 which is good. He has a very high floor and some upside but he does need development, but the good thing is he is 18 years old so he has time to fix the bad habits and create good habits. I agree he is kind of a black whole when he has the ball but I think that is just being a Freshman and maybe trying to live up to his hype as he was highly recruited from his class. He is one of the players I would be happy with drafting if we don't get our Giraffe ....:)

[BackHome]

I’d love two of: Black, Hendricks, Keyonte, Walker. But I’m wondering if lots of GMs are less enthused about a high pick as well, relatively speaking.

Henderson and Amen are big names in the media just for selling program and selling tickets I would see more then a few GM's interested in taking them. The question is should we do it and what is a fair price for them and will be players we want be there when we pick latter?

[duncan2150]

Pretty much agree with everything I was going to throw this question out there "Is Cam a PF or a SF" but I agree I think he is a tweener. As far as my impressions have said he is a much better Keldon which is not a bad thing to say as I like him as a player. The difference is that Cam is just way more athletic and WAY more explosive then Keldon as far as height in the beginning I was reading he is 6'7 but now I am seeing 6'6 so will see when it comes to combine numbers I have also seen wingspan is 7'0 which is good. He has a very high floor and some upside but he does need development, but the good thing is he is 18 years old so he has time to fix the bad habits and create good habits. I agree he is kind of a black whole when he has the ball but I think that is just being a Freshman and maybe trying to live up to his hype as he was highly recruited from his class. He is one of the players I would be happy with drafting if we don't get our Giraffe ....:)

The ballhandling is also more developped for Withmore tough in progress. My biggest concern are the assists numbers wich is very very low at 0.7 in 26 min( ouch) the blocks ( 0.3 wich is low for a PF) and the rebounds ( not a big concern but 5 rebounds for a guy with his physical attributes is not that good).

[Dejounte]

Complete players come by rarely in the draft. I would call them your generational players. If a prospect were to have weaknesses, I’d rather it be their assist or rebounding numbers than shooting or ball handling.

[duncan2150]

Complete players come by rarely in the draft. I would call them your generational players. If a prospect were to have weaknesses, I’d rather it be their assist or rebounding numbers than shooting or ball handling.

Agreed but more about the rebounding, the assists could be a bad feel for the game. You can't teach that if that's the case imo.

For Withmore it could be linked with the fact that he played with a really bad team.

[mo7888]

I’d love two of: Black, Hendricks, Keyonte, Walker. But I’m wondering if lots of GMs are less enthused about a high pick as well, relatively speaking.

I think most GM's are very high on this draft and see it as very strong through the top 10. It's hard to say if anyone would give up two picks to move up though.

[scott]

Need to watch some more recent tape, but highlights from mid-season of Cam gave me vibes of Nephew and Rudy Gay, which I'm all in for.

[Ariel]

My biggest concern are the assists numbers wich is very very low at 0.7 in 26 min( ouch) the blocks ( 0.3 wich is low for a PF) and the rebounds ( not a big concern but 5 rebounds for a guy with his physical attributes is not that good).
Honestly, I think he's got somewhat of a tunnel vision. Often his turnovers come as a result of him tying to unreasonably force his way into the paint, only to find himself trapped and losing the ball. He won't be Sochan, but as long as he learns to recognize those situations and kick the ball out, that's enough.

Complete players come by rarely in the draft. I would call them your generational players. If a prospect were to have weaknesses, I’d rather it be their assist or rebounding numbers than shooting or ball handling.
His ball handling isn't his strong suit, though. It's ok, but he overpowers opponents rather than dazzle them with skills. He's 18 though, he's not terrible and he can continue improving.

If you draft him it does potentially put Keldon in the hot seat imho, but too soon to say.
Withmore largely fills the same role as Keldon, but with higher upside and better defense. In the short term, there's enough playing time for him, Keldon & Sochan not to create conflict. But long term, yes, Keldon would seem like the odd man out. Not a problem, though, you can't pass on better talent because you have a good player at a given spot.

[Mr. Body]

^^^

Everything Ariel mentions hits on why I am flummoxed by putting Whitmore so high. His physical profile is great. Defense? Great. The rest? He's Keldon Johnson. We already see where KJ isn't the greatest fit in the Spurs' motion offense. He can handle the hand-offs and action on the perimeter, but if he's driving, it's to the rim. There's no sophistication to how he sees the floor. And Cam Whitmore projects to be even worse.

Here are Cam's stats vs. Keldon's coming out of college. Keldon was a little bit older as a freshman. Whitmore wins most percentage stats, but not by a ton. Keldon wins - again, coming out of college - almost all the advanced stats. Including the defensive stats. (https://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=cam-whitmore--keldon-johnson)

I don't really understand drafting essentially the same player, who is a finisher rather than a circulator (much less both) and who we got with the #29 pick last time. And we want to use a top 5 pick for him? I don't get it.

[heyheymymy]

^^^

Everything Ariel mentions hits on why I am flummoxed by putting Whitmore so high. His physical profile is great. Defense? Great. The rest? He's Keldon Johnson. We already see where KJ isn't the greatest fit in the Spurs' motion offense. He can handle the hand-offs and action on the perimeter, but if he's driving, it's to the rim. There's no sophistication to how he sees the floor. And Cam Whitmore projects to be even worse.

Here are Cam's stats vs. Keldon's coming out of college. Keldon was a little bit older as a freshman. Whitmore wins most percentage stats, but not by a ton. Keldon wins - again, coming out of college - almost all the advanced stats. Including the defensive stats. (https://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=cam-whitmore--keldon-johnson)

I don't really understand drafting essentially the same player, who is a finisher rather than a circulator (much less both) and who we got with the #29 pick last time. And we want to use a top 5 pick for him? I don't get it.

shit when you put it that way good point

okay moving Jarace Walker ahead of Cam Whitmore on my first after Wemby want list

[scott]

^^^

Everything Ariel mentions hits on why I am flummoxed by putting Whitmore so high. His physical profile is great. Defense? Great. The rest? He's Keldon Johnson. We already see where KJ isn't the greatest fit in the Spurs' motion offense. He can handle the hand-offs and action on the perimeter, but if he's driving, it's to the rim. There's no sophistication to how he sees the floor. And Cam Whitmore projects to be even worse.

Here are Cam's stats vs. Keldon's coming out of college. Keldon was a little bit older as a freshman. Whitmore wins most percentage stats, but not by a ton. Keldon wins - again, coming out of college - almost all the advanced stats. Including the defensive stats. (https://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=cam-whitmore--keldon-johnson)

I don't really understand drafting essentially the same player, who is a finisher rather than a circulator (much less both) and who we got with the #29 pick last time. And we want to use a top 5 pick for him? I don't get it.

Interesting perspective, and kind of along the same lines of Black (we’re going to use a top 10 pick to get a guy who is a similar player to the guy we picked at 29 and just traded for pick 24?). But like with Black, maybe the difference with Cam is all in the upside. With KJ, we know we don’t have an all-star caliber player. With Cam, are there signs to point to him potentially being one?

[BackHome]

It's all about potential with a lot of these guys going into the draft you would like for a top 5 guy though to be Elite or Great in at least one part of there game ie...Rebounder/shooter/shot blocker/3 ball. Every player has negatives heck even Wemb has negatives but you got to look at potential and hopefully your scouting department can get you the right player to draft.

[Mr. Body]

Interesting perspective, and kind of along the same lines of Black (we’re going to use a top 10 pick to get a guy who is a similar player to the guy we picked at 29 and just traded for pick 24?). But like with Black, maybe the difference with Cam is all in the upside. With KJ, we know we don’t have an all-star caliber player. With Cam, are there signs to point to him potentially being one?

It's a fair point about Black/White. But we would still have White if he was younger and not so expensive. He was drafted as an older player, did well, earned a contract, and the team gave it to him knowing they didn't want to pay him, so they moved him. He's much better in the Spurs' system than Keldon is, although the system does need finishers.

Anthony Black is, no joking, ten years younger than White. At the point of their respective drafts, Black will be 3 1/2 years younger than White was. It's hard to get a comparison with stats and so on, as White was playing juco his freshman year. Black is bigger, however, and it's not hard to imagine he could be better by the time he's 23.

I don't think White dropped for anything so much as age. I don't think the Spurs moved him so much as age and salary. I do think both are the type of player a motion offense system needs.

[scott]

It's a fair point about Black/White. But we would still have White if he was younger and not so expensive. He was drafted as an older player, did well, earned a contract, and the team gave it to him knowing they didn't want to pay him, so they moved him. He's much better in the Spurs' system than Keldon is, although the system does need finishers.

Anthony Black is, no joking, ten years younger than White. At the point of their respective drafts, Black will be 3 1/2 years younger than White was. It's hard to get a comparison with stats and so on, as White was playing juco his freshman year. Black is bigger, however, and it's not hard to imagine he could be better by the time he's 23.

I don't think White dropped for anything so much as age. I don't think the Spurs moved him so much as age and salary. I do think both are the type of player a motion offense system needs.

Great points, and obviously if we had been in a space of contending, we wouldn't have been looking to trade Derrick, so replacing key players with younger/cheaper versions of themselves in and of itself is not at all bad business.

[BackHome]

Until we draft a franchise player best thing is draft best player and develop them and trade for picks and keep doing that until we get that player.

[TDMVPDPOY]

if we cant draft a franchise player, then trade for one or sign one with our cap

spurs really need a +25ppg scorer on the team...

[Ignazzz]

You can hit Leonard Like player or Rozier.

[Uriel]

Where would Brandon Miller go if he were in last year’s draft? Ahead of Jabari Smith? Chet Holmgren? Paolo Banchero?

[Dejounte]

Where Brandon would go and where Brandon should go would be different questions because if there was a re-draft of last year, things would look different and even more significantly different as the years go by.

[Ariel]

Where Brandon would go and where Brandon should go would be different questions because if there was a re-draft of last year, things would look different and even more significantly different as the years go by.
You can still tackle the question, by trying to answer it disregarding the knowledge of each prospect we got from this season (Chet's injury, Jabari Smith's struggles, etc.). And though it depends on the teams picking, I think meshing this class and the past one could go something along these lines:
1) Wembanyama (indisputably)
2) Banchero (most likely)
3) Chet (could rise to 2)
4) Scoot (very dependent on team picking here... could go 3-6)
5) Jabari Smith Jr (as perceived previous to past season... remember there was talk about him going no. 1)
6) Brandon Miller (given his tournament struggles, otherwise he'd go higher)
7) Jaden Ivey
Then there's a bunch of guys who could switch places depending on the philosophy of the team picking. From Keegan Murray or Mathurin (more risk averse) to Amen Thompson or Shaedon Sharpe (for gambles).
Roughly, I think that could be a reasonable hypothetical output.

[Mr. Body]

if we cant draft a franchise player, then trade for one or sign one with our cap

spurs really need a +25ppg scorer on the team...

Spurs might already have two 25 ppg scorers on the team.

[mo7888]

Where would Brandon Miller go if he were in last year’s draft? Ahead of Jabari Smith? Chet Holmgren? Paolo Banchero?

I'd say 7 or 8...most likely 7 to Portland

[TD 21]

Cam Whitmore:

Anyone here big on him? Barely know him yet. Brief and initial impression was he’s fairly similar to Keldon Johnson but with higher leaping and better potential on defense, but similar challenges with passing and playing on ball.

Miles Bridges is the more apt comparison because of their athleticism.

Should be under strong consider if they fall outside of the top 3. Positional size at a premium position(s), athleticism, strength and a conceivable path to relatively efficient, volume scoring (even if it is as more finisher than creator) are all significant needs.

[BackHome]

One thing I like about Cam is that you can tell he loves the game and that he hates to loose he plays with some passion that I like.

[Maddog]

if we cant draft a franchise player, then trade for one or sign one with our cap

spurs really need a +25ppg scorer on the team...
The problem with that thinking is it could be 2 to 3 years before you know you have a franchise player

[wildbill2u]

If we don't see a pretty sure future All star at 2 or 3--or even a consensus Best Player Available, it seems to me that we might look into another possibility. Could we trade down for a top 15 FR plus a bottom FR and still be making a potentially good move. Too rich? How about a top 10-15 FR and a high 2R?? I'm feeling this draft isn't all that strong once you get past the Unicorn at #1

[exstatic]

If we don't see a pretty sure future All star at 2 or 3--or even a consensus Best Player Available, it seems to me that we might look into another possibility. Could we trade down for a top 15 FR plus a bottom FR and still be making a potentially good move. Too rich? How about a top 10-15 FR and a high 2R?? I'm feeling this draft isn't all that strong once you get past the Unicorn at #1

For two or three? You're fucking kidding me. It would have to be at LEAST a top 5 plus another mid FRP. The value in FRPs go off a cliff after 5, in the aggregate.

[heyheymymy]

Kinda get Mario Chalmers vibes from Jordan Hawkins

[Mr. Body]

Kinda get Mario Chalmers vibes from Jordan Hawkins

... is that good?

[heyheymymy]

Haha I mean Chalmers won at every level and hit ice cold shots

I always felt like what made those heat teams so good was outside the big 3 guys like battier and Miller etc

[BackHome]

For two or three? You're fucking kidding me. It would have to be at LEAST a top 5 plus another mid FRP. The value in FRPs go off a cliff after 5, in the aggregate.

I think the only two teams that could do that would be Utah and Orlando and we know Ainge ain't going to do that deal..Maybe Houston would do it if we get two and they get 4th and they really really want Henderson or Amen then they would give us there 4th pick and probably 18 OR 19 pick

A GM would have to have some big balls to be able to trade out of the second pick though - has anyone done that?

[Mr. Body]

If the Spurs trade down in an hypothetical, both (or more) first round picks don't have to be in this draft. They could trade down a few spots or whatever and accept future draft capital.

For example, Dallas traded Trae Young and a future protected 1st (1-5) for Luca Doncic. They were taken 3rd and 5th. Of course no one here is as good as Doncic is, but it's how teams value players.

[JPB]

Haha I mean Chalmers won at every level and hit ice cold shots

I always felt like what made those heat teams so good was outside the big 3 guys like battier and Miller etc

True, and I suppose you could say the same about the spurs with guys like Bowen, Horry or Boris... You need these guys.

[heyheymymy]

Interesting developments on the new tankathon player rankings update

NSJ and Keyonte fall almost out of the lottery

Jordan Hawkins up in the mid teens from 21

Kobe Bufkin now 21 from 33!

Sanogo pops up late 2nd now

[AFBlue]

I'll be interested to see where George ends up. He's got a silky smooth shot and unlimited range, but he was very inefficient and mostly a non-factor defensively. Definitely a project for whoever takes him.

[Ariel]

Interesting developments on the new tankathon player rankings update

NSJ and Keyonte fall almost out of the lottery

Jordan Hawkins up in the mid teens from 21

Kobe Bufkin now 21 from 33!

Sanogo pops up late 2nd now
Tankathon is a lagging indicator. Lots of us had Keyonte in the low lottery, the reasons why are pretty obvious: inefficient, undersized, mediocre athlete, bad defender. He needs to be much more efficient to make up for his short comings. I haven't given up on him, you can see the talent is there and he's probably one of the better gambles in the mid teens, but he hasn't been worth a high lottery pick for months in my mind.

Nick Smith may be worth a late first rounder at best if he has good workouts. He hasn't shown much of anything other than cause for concerns, from his underwhelming size, athleticism, playmaking, and even scoring potential. The only thing he's more than filled his quota of are injuries. Hard pass for me.

Early in the season the hype surrounding certain players is out of control, and it only comes down as the evidence piles up. You can't block the sun with your finger. Last year it was Hardy, Baldwin Jr, Kendall Brown, Houstan... lots of supposedly top 10 guys who ended up second rounders or fringe firsts... Nick Smith is the '23 version of that.

Hawkins is this year's Agbaji, only younger and a better shooter. I'll be surprised if he's not taken around 10-14. Maybe even earlier. Lots of teams trending up could use a guy like that.

[Mr. Body]

Kobe Bufkin is my guy. He's not just a good an efficient scorer, he can facilitate and is actually more than solid as a defender. He's super skinny and that won't change, but this is the era for it. He plays through contact and hits at an exceptional 70+% at the rim.

He's getting noticed, though, which is too bad.

[heyheymymy]

Great thoughts Ariel thanks

Agreed mr body was hoping to get Bufkin at 33 but the word is out

[DPG21920]

I’m so intrigued by the twins…if Spurs dont land top 3, I would be very happy I think with either Amen/Ausar

[heyheymymy]

I’m so intrigued by the twins…if Spurs dont land top 3, I would be very happy I think with either Amen/Ausar

I had a phase where I thought pop could work that magic and unlock a Thompson twin but after watching lots of tape I don't see much subsurface IQ that could even be developed out. I bet SA is looking at it more seriously than most fans are, it would be a heist to polish up a twin and get a valuable contributor out of the trash heap and in classic spurs sense a rags to riches service up story.

But these twin are downright raw! Great physicality and that was what I was keying into. It's conceivable that SA could still make a diamond out of coal here but what an uphill battle especially for a 5-7 pick.

Some more finished product team will reap more from the twins in a system that is readymade and can just drop a twin into a finished product where they can just freelance what they excelled at and put the squad over the top.

The twins would be just a drop in the bucket for SA though imho. But yeah I see a little crack of daylight potential wise and despite the sea of red flags I wouldn't be surprised I'd SA picked and flipped a twin into something decent either. Other than that I've cooled off completely on taking a twin really

[duncan2150]

I’m so intrigued by the twins…if Spurs dont land top 3, I would be very happy I think with either Amen/Ausar

I may think Ausar could be better as he can shoot, Amen's shoot is really broken... Will see if he can develop a jumpshot, other than that the tools are there. I'm intrigued by both and i don't rule them out of our pick.

Still really hard to evaluate them with the Overtime Elite.


I had a phase where I thought pop could work that magic and unlock a Thompson twin but after watching lots of tape I don't see much subsurface IQ that could even be developed out. I bet SA is looking at it more seriously than most fans are, it would be a heist to polish up a twin and get a valuable contributor out of the trash heap and in classic spurs sense a rags to riches service up story.

But these twin are downright raw! Great physicality and that was what I was keying into. It's conceivable that SA could still make a diamond out of coal here but what an uphill battle especially for a 5-7 pick.

Some more finished product team will reap more from the twins in a system that is readymade and can just drop a twin into a finished product where they can just freelance what they excelled at and put the squad over the top.

The twins would be just a drop in the bucket for SA though imho. But yeah I see a little crack of daylight potential wise and despite the sea of red flags I wouldn't be surprised I'd SA picked and flipped a twin into something decent either. Other than that I've cooled off completely on taking a twin really

I don't think they're that raw, the shoot is a problem but they can do a lot of thing : Pass, rebound, good ballhandling imo.... Imo they don't have a bad IQ but they need some polish.

The athletism is the biggest quality but they have others like playmaking, Ausar looks better on D and shooting. Amen may be the best of the two but he needs to shoooot

[DPG21920]

I may think Ausar could be better as he can shoot, Amen's shoot is really broken... Will see if he can develop a jumpshot, other than that the tools are there. I'm intrigued by both and i don't rule them out of our pick.

Still really hard to evaluate them with the Overtime Elite.



I don't think they're that raw, the shoot is a problem but they can do a lot of thing : Pass, rebound, good ballhandling imo.... Imo they don't have a bad IQ but they need some polish.

The athletism is the biggest quality but they have others like playmaking, Ausar looks better on D and shooting. Amen may be the best of the two but he needs to shoooot

The defense and playmaking is what intrigues me…

[heyheymymy]

Agreed DPG

I said a few weeks back that Ausar could be a surprising and underrated pick. Low flash but does a lot of little things: can playmake, stuffs the stats with little ast, Reb, steals. Perimeter D is actually solid. and then of course the fantastic athleticism and physical frame.

Not against it, just wanted more flash and pop for such a high pick and not too thrilled about the longer potential development arc as well as the risk of the likely higher than possibly acceptable bust potential.

[heyheymymy]

I said you can teach someone how to shoot over time, look at Sochan though those results may vary I think Sochan is a special player.

But you can't teach that high octane athleticism that comes natural to Ausar Thompson. Someone said no deer but what about a leopard? Can't teach that physical frame with all the offseasons in the world

[Ariel]

Most of the biggest busts share that trait, exactly because people convince themselves that athleticism can't be taught and underestimate basic skills, IQ and competitiveness. That's also why guys like Jokic or Brunson fall to the 2nd round. The Thompsons' athleticism is indisputable, but their feel for the game, passing and defensive potential at the NBA can't be properly assessed at the level of competition they've been playing. Even less, when all we have is HIGHLIGHTS REELS of their game. Picking someone like that at a high lottery pick scares the crap out of me.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Most of the biggest busts share that trait, exactly because people convince themselves that athleticism can't be taught and underestimate basic skills, IQ and competitiveness. That's also why guys like Jokic or Brunson fall to the 2nd round. The Thompsons' athleticism is indisputable, but their feel for the game, passing and defensive potential at the NBA can't be properly assessed at the level of competition they've been playing. Even less, when all we have is HIGHLIGHTS REELS of their game. Picking someone like that at a high lottery pick scares the crap out of me.

I tend to lean this way too. The NBA is all about guys that can leap out of the gym these days, but the actual basketball "skills" are fading fast. Feels like a lot of investment is being made in athletic guys who never really develop into NBA players. Should create a nice turnstile of players through the league I suppose. But should the Spurs use their highest draft pick in years on an athletic prospect who "might" become a superstar talent? Maybe that's our only option at 4 thru 7, but it doesn't feel great.

[exstatic]

The defense and playmaking is what intrigues me…

The last measurements (AAU) had their wingpans at 6’6” and 6’7”. Not good for defensive disruption.

[heyheymymy]

Most of the biggest busts share that trait, exactly because people convince themselves that athleticism can't be taught and underestimate basic skills, IQ and competitiveness. That's also why guys like Jokic or Brunson fall to the 2nd round. The Thompsons' athleticism is indisputable, but their feel for the game, passing and defensive potential at the NBA can't be properly assessed at the level of competition they've been playing. Even less, when all we have is HIGHLIGHTS REELS of their game. Picking someone like that at a high lottery pick scares the crap out of me.

Dude even the highlight reels are so flat and unremarkable imo. I like how you said no feel for the game, I said low IQ, but that is exactly what I noticed. Watching those clips there was zero "jazz" or special moments, it's all flat, stupid, unintuitive going through the motions and it turned me off on the twins right away.

[exstatic]

Most of the biggest busts share that trait, exactly because people convince themselves that athleticism can't be taught and underestimate basic skills, IQ and competitiveness. That's also why guys like Jokic or Brunson fall to the 2nd round. The Thompsons' athleticism is indisputable, but their feel for the game, passing and defensive potential at the NBA can't be properly assessed at the level of competition they've been playing. Even less, when all we have is HIGHLIGHTS REELS of their game. Picking someone like that at a high lottery pick scares the crap out of me.
Their athleticism is also being displayed against high schoolers. Hard to know if they’re just more mature, or if their athleticism is NBA ready.

[Mr. Body]

Most of the biggest busts share that trait, exactly because people convince themselves that athleticism can't be taught and underestimate basic skills, IQ and competitiveness. That's also why guys like Jokic or Brunson fall to the 2nd round. The Thompsons' athleticism is indisputable, but their feel for the game, passing and defensive potential at the NBA can't be properly assessed at the level of competition they've been playing. Even less, when all we have is HIGHLIGHTS REELS of their game. Picking someone like that at a high lottery pick scares the crap out of me.

Yup. Almost every single draft class is littered with high draft picks on athletic marvels who never learn how to play NBA basketball. It happens all the time. It's like teams keep smashing their dicks over and over.

[Mr. Body]

Their athleticism is also being displayed against high schoolers. Hard to know if they’re just more mature, or if their athleticism is NBA ready.

Someone pointed out that over 30% of possessions in the OTE occur in transition. The average in the NBA is about 17%. So almost twice as many.

So, basically, OTE is so poor that teams cannot manage an even basic transition defense.

[DPG21920]

There’s obviously risks with anyone this year outside of Wemby/Scoot it appears. But all the valid criticisms still dont take away from a few wow moments for me from Thompson’s. Does that mean I’m 100% sold on them at the moment? Nope…but I dont think it’s at all a question of their athleticism and defensive upside translating personally. It’s everything else.

So I’m not saying I’m hoping SA gets them but I have seen enough to be intrigued is all.

[Mr. Body]

There’s obviously risks with anyone this year outside of Wemby/Scoot it appears. But all the valid criticisms still dont take away from a few wow moments for me from Thompson’s. Does that mean I’m 100% sold on them at the moment? Nope…but I dont think it’s at all a question of their athleticism and defensive upside translating personally. It’s everything else.

So I’m not saying I’m hoping SA gets them but I have seen enough to be intrigued is all.

I think you could get an Aaron Gordon type who is an athletic freak and really did improve to become a good player.

[DPG21920]

I think you could get an Aaron Gordon type who is an athletic freak and really did improve to become a good player.

That’s a great comp….and if Gordon would have embraced winning ball earlier and his playmaking chops alongside his defense, he would have been viewed as even better. We will see, I trust the Spurs drafting and program. I’m every bit as worried about all prospects after Wemby/Scoot (even Miller who I like has me worried some) but I personally did see a few truly wow moments from the twins (not that it’s enough to draft them, but I did see special as a ceiling at least even if unlikely)

[scott]

If we should end up at #6 or 7, and Whitmore goes at 4 or 5 (which he probably should) I'd be okay with a Thompson (though I'd prefer Black) in the same way I was ultimately "okay" (but not excited) with Primo - at least it's a swing at the fence without any clear and obviously high upside options available there. Basically, my feeling at the end would be to just accept that it was a shitty draft without too much hand wringing after the fact.

[DPG21920]

My first impression is that he reminds me of a more athletic Rondo. If the shot doesn’t come around for Amen (which should be the assumption) he still has a decently high floor regular season like a Ben Simmons or Rondo did with the ball handling, vision/passing and ability to truly get out in the open floor and be a good defender. Would that be great for a top 6 pick? Meh, but floor seems ok with how advanced the passing seems to be alongside the athletic build.

This isn’t someone who can just catch lobs or jump high; that level of play making and ball handling with the athletic profile is what stood out to me.

[Ariel]

Basically, my feeling at the end would be to just accept that it was a shitty draft without too much hand wringing after the fact.
If you have no confidence whatsoever in any prospect left at your position, then you're not forced to pick one. Someone always perceives things differently, and whoever is willing to give out the most is your trade partner. So whether it's trading for lower picks and/or future picks and/or young prospects, that's all better than taking someone you're not sold on.

[scott]

If you have no confidence whatsoever in any prospect left at your position, then you're not forced to pick one. Someone always perceives things differently, and whoever is willing to give out the most is your trade partner. So whether it's trading for lower picks and/or future picks and/or young prospects, that's all better than taking someone you're not sold on.

I'd be fine with trading out of the #6 or 7 spot as well. But I'm also not in the front office, so my feelings on the draft don't really matter. Spurs may be superhigh on a Thompson at #6 and want to take him, my feeling about the draft will be the same though, and I'll put my faith in the Spurs FO to once again develop a gem.

[Ariel]

I'd be fine with trading out of the #6 or 7 spot as well. But I'm also not in the front office, so my feelings on the draft don't really matter. Spurs may be superhigh on a Thompson at #6 and want to take him, my feeling about the draft will be the same though, and I'll put my faith in the Spurs FO to once again develop a gem.
Sure, I'm just pointing out that's not an excuse for drafting a bust high. You (as in anyone) can always sell, even if at a discount.

[exstatic]

That’s a great comp….and if Gordon would have embraced winning ball earlier and his playmaking chops alongside his defense, he would have been viewed as even better. We will see, I trust the Spurs drafting and program. I’m every bit as worried about all prospects after Wemby/Scoot (even Miller who I like has me worried some) but I personally did see a few truly wow moments from the twins (not that it’s enough to draft them, but I did see special as a ceiling at least even if unlikely)

Aaron Gordon played NCAA ball, and was a year younger than the Thompsons when he was drafted. They’re TWENTY.

[scott]

Sure, I'm just pointing out that's not an excuse for drafting a bust high. You (as in anyone) can always sell, even if at a discount.

For sure. All of fans have our desired ways this will turn out, but at the end of the day we're all just people on a message board - not NBA Scouts - so at the end of the day I'll be curious to see how the Spurs make it work. I still believe in their track record, no matter how much consternation over not picking Sengun might occur on this website.

[DPG21920]

Aaron Gordon played NCAA ball, and was a year younger than the Thompsons when he was drafted. They’re TWENTY.

So? I’m not going go obsess over a year difference. I mean, your points are valid age aside. Just that one year difference doesn’t mean much to me in this overall context.

[exstatic]

So?

They’re older than:
Sochan
Malaki
Blake
Dominic

They’re TWENTY, and they’ve never played above HS level ball. It is a big deal, because they’re aging, but not improving. At the draft, they will be the same age as our 2022 draft class, who all will have one year of NCAA experience and one year of NBA experience. They’re literally two years behind in their development. And no, you can’t catch up.

[tonight...you]

They’re older than:
Sochan
Malaki
Blake
Dominic

They’re TWENTY, and they’ve never played above HS level ball. It is a big deal, because they’re aging, but not improving. At the draft, they will be the same age as our 2022 draft class, who all will have one year of NCAA experience and one year of NBA experience. They’re literally two years behind in their development. And no, you can’t catch up.
Damn. That's solid.

[DPG21920]

Hypothetical:

If DET landed pick 2 and SA landed pick 3. Would y’all trade Pick 3 (Brandon Miller let’s presume) for Jaden Ivey + an unprotected 1st from DET?

So DET lands Scoot and Brandon Miller

SA trades Miller for Ivey + an extra first

[exstatic]

Hypothetical:

If DET landed pick 2 and SA landed pick 3. Would y’all trade Pick 3 (Brandon Miller let’s presume) for Jaden Ivey + an unprotected 1st from DET?

So DET lands Scoot and Brandon Miller

SA trades Miller for Ivey + an extra first

No. I’d trade back and pick Black or Hendricks, plus a pick.

[DPG21920]

No. I’d trade back and pick Black or Hendricks, plus a pick.

I personally like Ivey better than any PG in this draft other than Scoot. So I take it you just like Black/Hendricks better than Ivey but have no issue giving up Miler for a PG + pick right?

[exstatic]

I personally like Ivey better than any PG in this draft other than Scoot. So I take it you just like Black/Hendricks better than Ivey but have no issue giving up Miler for a PG + pick right?

It’s a wing player league. A wing or forward is your best chance to develop a star player. Fewer paths for a small guard, and they all involve being a knockdown shooter and an uber athlete. Fewer players they can defend, too.

[rascal]

Hypothetical:

If DET landed pick 2 and SA landed pick 3. Would y’all trade Pick 3 (Brandon Miller let’s presume) for Jaden Ivey + an unprotected 1st from DET?

So DET lands Scoot and Brandon Miller

SA trades Miller for Ivey + an extra first

Yes

[rascal]

No. I’d trade back and pick Black or Hendricks, plus a pick.

Ivey is better than Black

[DPG21920]

Ivey is better than Black

The question is he better than Miller?

[mo7888]

Hypothetical:

If DET landed pick 2 and SA landed pick 3. Would y’all trade Pick 3 (Brandon Miller let’s presume) for Jaden Ivey + an unprotected 1st from DET?

So DET lands Scoot and Brandon Miller

SA trades Miller for Ivey + an extra first

I wouldn't, but if I could trade back for the Orlando + the Chicago pick I would.

[DPG21920]

I think I rank it like this in that scenario:

1) Do the trade for Ivey. If we don’t land Wemby or Scoot, I value getting someone who could be a lead guard and I like Ivey

2) Draft Brandon Miller

3) Trade back for 2 players in this draft.

[Mr. Body]

Ivey and Blake Wesley were close growing up together and are really similar players. Their freshman stats in college are really, really similar.

[DPG21920]

Ivey and Blake Wesley were close growing up together and are really similar players. Their freshman stats in college are really, really similar.

Ivey is playing incredible and Blake looks like he’s questionable to be in the league (and I like Blake)…Ivey, playing like he has been, is looking very exciting to me

[heyheymymy]

ORL has 26 and 27 FRPs it looks like, either would work for me:

I'd swap a San Antonio 2 or 3 selection to ORL for their 7, plus say their 26 FRP unprotected, and maybe tack on a 27 2RP.

Magic get to jump for Brandon Miller or maybe Scoot to finish off the roster instead of log jamming two mediocre picks around 7-11, should that interest them. Spurs get Hendricks or Black at 7 at a cheaper pay scale plus a future FRP and 2RP. Magic get to keep the CHI pick as well which might sweeten the appearance of the deal in ORLs eyes. That can be a late net for any dream fallers or a swing pick to gamble on since you already picked a top shelf talent at 2 or 3.

[DPG21920]

Hell no I’m not allowing ORL to build their team when SA needs best talent available- especially when them building their team makes their pick much weaker for SA

[Mr. Body]

Ivey is playing incredible and Blake looks like he’s questionable to be in the league (and I like Blake)…Ivey, playing like he has been, is looking very exciting to me

Of course Ivey looks better now, lol. (And 'playing incredible' is overselling him a bit.) Point is they were close to the same player when correcting for age/development.

[exstatic]

ORL has 26 and 27 FRPs it looks like, either would work for me:

I'd swap a San Antonio 2 or 3 selection to ORL for their 7, plus say their 26 FRP unprotected, and maybe tack on a 27 2RP.

Magic get to jump for Brandon Miller or maybe Scoot to finish off the roster instead of log jamming two mediocre picks around 7-11, should that interest them. Spurs get Hendricks or Black at 7 at a cheaper pay scale plus a future FRP and 2RP. Magic get to keep the CHI pick as well which might sweeten the appearance of the deal in ORLs eyes. That can be a late net for any dream fallers or a swing pick to gamble on since you already picked a top shelf talent at 2 or 3.

Orlando also has Chicagos pick, as long as it’s outside the top 4. I’d want that, and not the late 20s picks.

[Mr. Body]

ORL has 26 and 27 FRPs it looks like, either would work for me:

I'd swap a San Antonio 2 or 3 selection to ORL for their 7, plus say their 26 FRP unprotected, and maybe tack on a 27 2RP.

Magic get to jump for Brandon Miller or maybe Scoot to finish off the roster instead of log jamming two mediocre picks around 7-11, should that interest them. Spurs get Hendricks or Black at 7 at a cheaper pay scale plus a future FRP and 2RP. Magic get to keep the CHI pick as well which might sweeten the appearance of the deal in ORLs eyes. That can be a late net for any dream fallers or a swing pick to gamble on since you already picked a top shelf talent at 2 or 3.

My thinking, too. I don't believe in Scoot or Miller enough. Scoot may be good, but he's yadda yadda high usage and only pretty promising. Beyond Miller's attitude, his tournament was shocking, and not just his last game, the whole thing. I'd absolutely get future capital and take a player who may be just as good, a better fit, and cheaper.

People just fall in love with hype.

[Mr. Body]

It's not going to happen, but failing to get Wemby, I'd love to swap Scoot or Miller for Orlando's picks and take any of these two: Black, Gradey, Hendricks.

Very little doubt in my mind you're coming out with the better basket.

[heyheymymy]

My main motivation would be to get out of the 2-5 box. I like the guys there but I'm just not sure they are worth such premium selection range. give me #1/wemby or give me 6/7 (or give me a slick trade out from 2-3). I like at least one guy in that range of ORLs potential odds-best #7 let alone 3-4 that would be appropriate for the pay scale talent ratio imho if I'm front office. Could take Black, Hendricks, Whitmore, Walker, one of which would at least still be there at 7 imho.

Meanwhile I don't really want/see a second past 7 but before 13 that would be worth it so I'd rather just punt the rest of the return trade capital value to the future and reset. Maybe if you could get Black with ORLs odds-best 7 and Hendricks with the odds-best 12 somehow (or visa-versa?), I'd go for that enthusiastically. Not sure you wouldn't have to burn 7 on one or the other though and what would you take with the 12?

Just thinking out loud obvs all highly dependent, as it stands and hypothetical. Prob will be tons of players that pull up or fall down so the landscape likely will change the relevance of such a proposal by the time draft rolls around anyway.

[Ariel]

It's not going to happen, but failing to get Wemby, I'd love to swap Scoot or Miller for Orlando's picks and take any of these two: Black, Gradey, Hendricks.

Very little doubt in my mind you're coming out with the better basket.
I've cooled down on Gradey Dick. I think he hasn't proven he should go 10 spots ahead from the rest of the top shooters in the class (Hawkins, Jett Howard), considering his defensive struggles. I'm only trading down from 2/3 for 2 of Cam Whitmore, Anthony Black and Taylor Hendricks. Or one of them plus a projected VERY good future pick or project. Also I'd consider something like Trey Murphy, Dyson Daniels + Pelicans pick (depending on where it lands).

[heyheymymy]

I like that NOLA proposal, Ariel

prob would

[heyheymymy]

Hell no I’m not allowing ORL to build their team when SA needs best talent available- especially when them building their team makes their pick much weaker for SA

This is a really good point I didn't consider

How much are you contributing to your own return asset devaluation there and that does change things a bit

But it's ORL, they'll always be a good bet to fuck it up lol

[heyheymymy]

But that's the gamble though, does Miller or Scoot only stand on hype and does SA feel that way privately and then it would be baiting ORL into biting on hype, Miller shoots up a FL strip club, Magic suck in 2026 when Spurs get that juicy pick.

Meanwhile Black produced solid numbers on reasonable salary and was a model citizen in NBA Cares commercials lol

[Mr. Body]

This is a really good point I didn't consider

How much are you contributing to your own return asset devaluation there and that does change things a bit

But it's ORL, they'll always be a good bet to fuck it up lol

I don't know if there's a huge difference between Scoot Henderson and Markelle Fultz.

[heyheymymy]

I don't know if there's a huge difference between Scoot Henderson and Markelle Fultz.

Agree and if you have 2 and ORL is biting on the hype you let them have Scoot, he nosedives the team over time, and hopefully you've snagged a future pick right in the wake of the crash a la the ATL Hawks picks with the DJ sabotage bomb. No guarantees but I could see ORL getting lured into the Scoot or Miller hype and them not ultimately leading to success there. Obvs a lot has to line up for this but it's just something to keep an eye on. Maybe Scoot and Miller end up being great players, just personally uneasy on them and would prefer to avoid hence looking at scenarios

[Ariel]

Realistic 2nd round prospects?
For our own pick (32/33), I have Strawther and Jaquez.
For Toronto's pick (41-45), I have James Nnaji (draft and stash).

[Mr. Body]

Brandin Podziemski

Same school, Santa Clara, as Jalen Williams, a year younger going into the draft, and his stats are pretty much better across the board especially advanced stats.

https://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=brandin-podziemski--jalen-williams

Maybe doesn't pass the eye test though.

[Mr. Body]

DaRon Holmes has been a productive big man for Dayton.

[TD 21]

Ivey is a combo guard and if the Pistons land at 2, my sense is they either select Miller at it or if they're incentivized enough by the team who land at 3 in pursuit of Henderson, trade back to select him.

Ivey has connections to the city (which matters for a non glamor market) and is a better theoretical fit next to Cunningham than Henderson. They also desperately need wings/forwards/shooting.



It’s a wing player league. A wing or forward is your best chance to develop a star player. Fewer paths for a small guard, and they all involve being a knockdown shooter and an uber athlete. Fewer players they can defend, too.

Only if you're brainwashed by the propaganda. It's a big man's league. It only wasn't briefly because they were adjusting to this era, the second they did magically they became the best players in the league again.

[rascal]

Brandin Podziemski

Same school, Santa Clara, as Jalen Williams, a year younger going into the draft, and his stats are pretty much better across the board especially advanced stats.

https://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=brandin-podziemski--jalen-williams

Maybe doesn't pass the eye test though.

Too slow

[Dejounte]

Tbh I’m prepared for some team outside of the bottom 3 to get the first pick, probably Dallas.

[Dejounte]

Yeah, my Jalen Williams/ Giddey/ Franz pick this year is Rayan Rupert. If the Spurs don’t get a top 2 pick and have no assets/ takers to trade for another pick, I will be fine with him as our 3rd-7th pick.

“9 NBA teams have representatives at tonight’s NZ Breakers vs Brisbane Bullets game; primarily to see Rayan Rupert (https://www.proballers.com/basketball/player/180808/rayan-rupert),” tweeted Olgun Uluc of ESPN Australia and New Zealand (https://twitter.com/OlgunUluc/status/1618547038979002369). “Among the teams in attendance, sources told ESPN: Brooklyn Nets, New York Knicks, Utah Jazz, Chicago Bulls, New Orleans Pelicans, San Antonio Spurs, Toronto Raptors.”

[Dejounte]

Apparently the dude shares the same trauma as past Spurs piayers: Kawhi & Primo. Lost a parental figure during his childhood. I wonder if there is an inner drive these players have that others don’t when they experience things like that.

[Ariel]

Brandin Podziemski

Same school, Santa Clara, as Jalen Williams, a year younger going into the draft, and his stats are pretty much better across the board especially advanced stats.

https://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=brandin-podziemski--jalen-williams

Maybe doesn't pass the eye test though.
Stats seem good on paper, but looked at a few clips and yikes... you weren't kidding when you mentioned he doesn't pass the eye test. On the plus side he seems smart and crafty but way below NBA athleticism, when shooting takes forever to get his feet set, doesn't get any elevation and his release is low. He wasn't challenged much in the clips I watched but won't have that luxury at the NBA level where closeouts will be much more aggressive. Seems glued to the ground, some of his layups look like prayers. Honestly I don't buy him making it at the next level.

[Ariel]

Any of our French friends here can fill us in Coulibaly? Looks interesting on paper and on the small sample of clips I watched.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjOrzBlUH78

[Ariel]

Tbh I’m prepared for some team outside of the bottom 3 to get the first pick, probably Dallas.
There's a 58% chance that happens, so it wouldn't be surprising. It would shock me if it's Dallas, given the recent tanking controversy. Probably there's more interest around the league in having the Mavs blow it up, the vultures are already lining up and salivating on anticipation.

[Ariel]

Yeah, my Jalen Williams/ Giddey/ Franz pick this year is Rayan Rupert. If the Spurs don’t get a top 2 pick and have no assets/ takers to trade for another pick, I will be fine with him as our 3rd-7th pick.

“9 NBA teams have representatives at tonight’s NZ Breakers vs Brisbane Bullets game; primarily to see Rayan Rupert (https://www.proballers.com/basketball/player/180808/rayan-rupert),” tweeted Olgun Uluc of ESPN Australia and New Zealand (https://twitter.com/OlgunUluc/status/1618547038979002369). “Among the teams in attendance, sources told ESPN: Brooklyn Nets, New York Knicks, Utah Jazz, Chicago Bulls, New Orleans Pelicans, San Antonio Spurs, Toronto Raptors.”
I don't think we'll take him at 3-7, but I am getting more and more the sense that the Spurs aren't enamored with any prospect beyond Wemby, so I'm starting to get used to the idea that a trade down for a non star may be in the cards.

[DPG21920]

Tbh I’m prepared for some team outside of the bottom 3 to get the first pick, probably Dallas.

That would suck so so bad if Dallas gets rewarded for this stunt they just pulled.

[scott]

That would suck so so bad if Dallas gets rewarded for this stunt they just pulled.

1644777693123080206

LOL DALLAS

[DPG21920]

1644777693123080206

LOL DALLAS

CROFL

[Mr. Body]

1644777693123080206

LOL DALLAS

Lol the NBA is so arbitrary.

[Mr. Body]

Basically they hate Cuban. I don't blame them but c'mon. They let this shit slide for other teams all the time.

[Dejounte]

I don't think we'll take him at 3-7, but I am getting more and more the sense that the Spurs aren't enamored with any prospect beyond Wemby, so I'm starting to get used to the idea that a trade down for a non star may be in the cards.
I don’t think trading down means they plan on getting a non star, if anything, they will pick the guy who has the most upside but is being overlooked. And I think Rupert is one of those guys.

[Ariel]

Basically they hate Cuban. I don't blame them but c'mon. They let this shit slide for other teams all the time.
it was waaay too obvious, they have been trying everything to get to the playoffs, then all of a sudden they're one game away and bench their entire starting lineup without reason or even excuse (rest? :lol for what?) and even their coach admits the organization pulled the plug. Way too shameless and stupid. They forced the league to intervene.

[DPG21920]

Ya- I mean we all know teams do it but you aren’t supposed to flaunt it. Mavs, despite others doing the same, were too reckless and blatant and it brought too much negative attention to the issue.

[Ariel]

I don’t think trading down means they plan on getting a non star, if anything, they will pick the guy who has the most upside but is being overlooked. And I think Rupert is one of those guys.
I like Rupert, seems like a solid pick up. But nowhere near the upside you'd expect of a tanking season (first option on offense / franchise player), that's my point. Could end up being one of the better guys in a redraft, though.

[TD 21]

it was waaay too obvious, they have been trying everything to get to the playoffs, then all of a sudden they're one game away and bench their entire starting lineup without reason or even excuse (rest? :lol for what?) and even their coach admits the organization pulled the plug. Way too shameless and stupid. They forced the league to intervene.

That, the league's negative history with Cuban and the fact that they already have a superstar as well as low odds, makes it beyond highly unlikely that they get rewarded.

[BackHome]

The Warriors and OK have done far worse hell they have just sent best players home and paid them not to play.

[Ariel]

The Warriors and OK have done far worse hell they have just sent best players home and paid them not to play.
Portland too. But these idiots pulled a 180 over night and had their coach scream it to the world.

[Mr. Body]

It's such a jokey kayfabe. Who cares if the coach says why they're resting players? Everyone knows what's going on. It's this cutesy pretend shit that's embarrassing. Either fine everyone or no one.

[baseline bum]

Ya- I mean we all know teams do it but you aren’t supposed to flaunt it. Mavs, despite others doing the same, were too reckless and blatant and it brought too much negative attention to the issue.

Pretty much this. Golden State blatantly tanked in the second half of the 2012 season to keep their top 7 protected pick but I guess they never said the quiet part out loud to the media so no one cared too much.

[duncan2150]

Any of our French friends here can fill us in Coulibaly? Looks interesting on paper and on the small sample of clips I watched.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjOrzBlUH78

I wrote about him a few weeks ago, solid potential, Athletic, long, he can do a little bit of everything. I really like him if we can have another pick. I don't think he'll be there with our secound round.

[Ariel]

(Bilal Coulibaly also plays for France U18, a projected late first/secound rounder for the 2023 draft).

https://twitter.com/50NuancesDeNBA/status/1559490192213409799


https://youtu.be/m2AV6OlJqCo

Rob I know you been following your boy Wemb...just curious what your thoughts on his team mate Bilan Coulibaly SF? So far my two favorite early second round picks is him and PF Azuolas Tubelis..

For other pick would look at Bilal Coulibaly SG, Azuolas Tubelis PF, Leonard Miller SF, Jordan Hawkins SG

My favorite are:

Bilal Coulibaly SF - 6'6 - He plays with Wemb maybe a draft and stash?
Azuolas Tubelis PF/C - 6'11 - Just a very good basketball player gets you rebounds and gets you points always consistent
Jordan Hawkins SG - 6'5 - Never have enough shooters

Bilal Coulibaly
Sidy Cissoko
Nikola Djurisic

are heavy hitters for our second round pick, IMO

After the guards, i will talk about the fowards who could be available at the end of the first ( trading up) or with our secound rounders.

Bilal Coulibaly- SF – France – HT: 6-6 –Wingspan : 7'2/7'3 ( 18 yrs old)

I really like Bilal Coulibaly, watching him here in Paris. Long, athletic player with a good awareness. Big potential especially on D with a huge wingspan, offensively he plays more off the ball, cuts and still progressing.

He's climbing the boards after some good games with the Metropolitans( Victor's team).


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yg4z2pI0clU

Any of our French friends here can fill us in Coulibaly? Looks interesting on paper and on the small sample of clips I watched.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjOrzBlUH78
Ok, searched all references of Coulibaly and listed them above. Seems like a very interesting prospect, not likely to fall to the 2nd round, probably more like late teens / early 20s. Any interest in moving a pick (Charlotte's?) to get this guy?

[Dejounte]

https://youtu.be/UieA-LSfxsc

Dark horse to jump into the top 10 tbh. If Patrick Williams can become 4th, this guy can.

[Ariel]

You probably mean it as a compliment, but I'd take it more as a warning. No way in hell should Patrick Williams have gone no. 4, with Haliburton, Bane, Maxey and Vassell still on the board, but that shows just how much the draft can be biased towards athleticism and length. In this case his wingspan may be great, he's got good size, he's known for defense, but if he struggles scoring and shooting specifically, then taking him too high is a risky proposition. He sounds like a good gamble in the 15-25 range, but I wouldn't touch him with a 10 foot pole with our first pick. But if we land a second pick later on, sure.

[Ariel]

https://nbl.com.au/player/3684/1884975/rayan-rupert

Rupert is shooting 35% from the field, with 0.89 assists and 1.07 TO. That's not good for someone with supposed PG skills. For reference, Giddey was posting almost 8 assists a game when he played in the same league. Not the same player at all, but goes to show how low his assists numbers are.

[mo7888]

I like Rupert, I have him at 12 right now.

Tier 1:
1. Victor Wembanyama
Tier 2:
2. Scoot Henderson
Tier 3:
3. Brandon Miller
4. Cam Whitmore
5. Jarace Walker
6. Amen Thompson
7. Gradey Dick
8. Ausar Thompson
9. Nick Smith Jr
Tier 4:
10. Taylor Hendricks
11. Jordan Hawkins
12. Rayan Rupert
13. Anthony Black
14. Jalen Hood-Schifino
15. Cason Wallace
16. Keyonte George
17. Gregory Jackson II
Tier: 5
18. Kris Murray
19. Jett Howard
10. Brian Sensabaugh
21. Dariq Whitehead
22. Kyle Filipowski
23. Bilal Coulibaly
Tier: 6
24. Noah Clowney
25. James Nnaji
26. Terquavion Smith
27. Kobe Bufkin
28. Maxwell Lewis
29. Dereck Lively II
30. Leonard Miller

[stnick2261]

I would love to see us get 1st pick.... and then Toronto get pick #2 (pushing Dallas to spot #11 and losing their pick)

[Mr. Body]

I like Rupert, I have him at 12 right now.

Tier 1:
1. Victor Wembanyama
Tier 2:
2. Scoot Henderson
Tier 3:
3. Brandon Miller
4. Cam Whitmore
5. Jarace Walker
6. Amen Thompson
7. Gradey Dick
8. Ausar Thompson
9. Nick Smith Jr
Tier 4:
10. Taylor Hendricks
11. Jordan Hawkins
12. Rayan Rupert
13. Anthony Black
14. Jalen Hood-Schifino
15. Cason Wallace
16. Keyonte George
17. Gregory Jackson II
Tier: 5
18. Kris Murray
19. Jett Howard
10. Brian Sensabaugh
21. Dariq Whitehead
22. Kyle Filipowski
23. Bilal Coulibaly
Tier: 6
24. Noah Clowney
25. James Nnaji
26. Terquavion Smith
27. Kobe Bufkin
28. Maxwell Lewis
29. Dereck Lively II
30. Leonard Miller

Filipowski is going back to Duke.

[Mr. Body]

https://nbl.com.au/player/3684/1884975/rayan-rupert

Rupert is shooting 35% from the field, with 0.89 assists and 1.07 TO. That's not good for someone with supposed PG skills. For reference, Giddey was posting almost 8 assists a game when he played in the same league. Not the same player at all, but goes to show how low his assists numbers are.

I don't know if he plays into this, but Rupert is behind Ousmane Dieng in development and Dieng, showing flashes overall, wasn't ready to contribute in the NBA last year. We'll see going forward.

EDIT: He played 39 games. I feel like I watched parts of OKC games throughout the year and barely remember him.

[mo7888]

Filipowski is going back to Duke.

Thanks... I missed that...

[BacktoBasics]

I like Rupert, I have him at 12 right now.

Tier 1:
1. Victor Wembanyama
Tier 2:
2. Scoot Henderson
Tier 3:
3. Brandon Miller
4. Cam Whitmore
5. Jarace Walker
6. Amen Thompson
7. Gradey Dick
8. Ausar Thompson
9. Nick Smith Jr
Tier 4:
10. Taylor Hendricks
11. Jordan Hawkins
12. Rayan Rupert
13. Anthony Black
14. Jalen Hood-Schifino
15. Cason Wallace
16. Keyonte George
17. Gregory Jackson II
Tier: 5
18. Kris Murray
19. Jett Howard
10. Brian Sensabaugh
21. Dariq Whitehead
22. Kyle Filipowski
23. Bilal Coulibaly
Tier: 6
24. Noah Clowney
25. James Nnaji
26. Terquavion Smith
27. Kobe Bufkin
28. Maxwell Lewis
29. Dereck Lively II
30. Leonard Miller

Black is light years ahead of Nick Smith Jr

[exstatic]

Black is light years ahead of Nick Smith Jr

I agree with you, but it's his list, and probably not subject to discussion.

[BackHome]

To be fair Black has been healthy all year and Nick has missed a lot of time due to injury

[TD 21]

The difference between Patrick Williams and Rupert is the former plays a more premium position.

Random thought: If the Spurs fall out of the top 4 and the Magic don't leapfrog them, I could see them trying to either consolidate their own pick plus the Bulls one or their own pick plus Suggs for the Spurs pick and maybe Wesley.

I wouldn't have interest in Suggs. Durability concerns, can't shoot or run an offense and relatively expensive, but by all accounts "Spurs material" and would somewhat fit a positional need.

[exstatic]

The difference between Patrick Williams and Rupert is the former plays a more premium position.

Random thought: If the Spurs fall out of the top 4 and the Magic don't leapfrog them, I could see them trying to either consolidate their own pick plus the Bulls one or their own pick plus Suggs for the Spurs pick and maybe Wesley.

I wouldn't have interest in Suggs. Durability concerns, can't shoot or run an offense and relatively expensive, but by all accounts "Spurs material" and would somewhat fit a positional need.

Doubt anyone trades up for anything except picks 2 or 3. Pick 1 is off limits, and anything 4 and below is homogenous from a talent standpoint. They're not all the same, but they have a like amount of warts and flaws down to probably picks 10 or 11.

[Mr. Body]

To be fair Black has been healthy all year and Nick has missed a lot of time due to injury

This is fair. It's what I'm sure Smith's camp is hoping people realize. (I'm not actually sure either has announced yet? Would it be wild if neither of them go this year??)

Smith looked really small and struggled to get separation, forcing him into bad shots. His handle isn't very good, either.

But he was a warrior and fought to help his team, if it ultimately didn't work. He wasn't a punk-ass loser like Shaeden Sharpe who could have played but didn't (and Kentucky sucked last year and could have used him). Smith might have affected his lottery stock, though, while Sharpe was drafted too high because of mystery box.

[Mr. Body]

Doubt anyone trades up for anything except picks 2 or 3. Pick 1 is off limits, and anything 4 and below is homogenous from a talent standpoint. They're not all the same, but they have a like amount of warts and flaws down to probably picks 10 or 11.

I'll continue to append that i think teams will want to trade up for a Thompson if they're available past 4. The league puts a premium on athleticism. Not like they'll trade up a huge amount, but I could see a team like Washington at 8 or whatever wanting to move up a few slots. It's not impossible.

[exstatic]

I'll continue to append that i think teams will want to trade up for a Thompson if they're available past 4. The league puts a premium on athleticism. Not like they'll trade up a huge amount, but I could see a team like Washington at 8 or whatever wanting to move up a few slots. It's not impossible.

They do get crazy for mystery boxes.

[TD 21]

Doubt anyone trades up for anything except picks 2 or 3. Pick 1 is off limits, and anything 4 and below is homogenous from a talent standpoint. They're not all the same, but they have a like amount of warts and flaws down to probably picks 10 or 11.

That's a consensus view, but obviously each team has their own board and all it takes is someone to be enamored with one particular name.

The Magic not only have the assets, but given that they seem poised to compete for a playoff spot next season, could have the impetus too.

[Dejounte]

The difference between Patrick Williams and Rupert is the former plays a more premium position.

Random thought: If the Spurs fall out of the top 4 and the Magic don't leapfrog them, I could see them trying to either consolidate their own pick plus the Bulls one or their own pick plus Suggs for the Spurs pick and maybe Wesley.

I wouldn't have interest in Suggs. Durability concerns, can't shoot or run an offense and relatively expensive, but by all accounts "Spurs material" and would somewhat fit a positional need.

Might not be so premium but Rupert is a ton more skilled.

[Mr. Body]

The difference between Patrick Williams and Rupert is the former plays a more premium position.

Random thought: If the Spurs fall out of the top 4 and the Magic don't leapfrog them, I could see them trying to either consolidate their own pick plus the Bulls one or their own pick plus Suggs for the Spurs pick and maybe Wesley.

I wouldn't have interest in Suggs. Durability concerns, can't shoot or run an offense and relatively expensive, but by all accounts "Spurs material" and would somewhat fit a positional need.

A number of us like the idea of trading down with the Magic, at least exploring the idea.

I just don't know if the Spurs are in acquisition mode, meaning getting players by using assets. (Picking up waiver wire dudes is another matter, or expiring veterans.)

I'm really becoming aware of the crazy crunch the Spurs will be facing in the next few years. At the end of next year, really. If they have two rookies this draft year, then they're about to have three draft picks in each of the next two years, probably, and just in the first rounds.

Definitely not saying they wouldn't nab a promising player who maybe is underdeveloped. They're just in wildly new territory.

[TD 21]

A number of us like the idea of trading down with the Magic, at least exploring the idea.

I just don't know if the Spurs are in acquisition mode, meaning getting players by using assets. (Picking up waiver wire dudes is another matter, or expiring veterans.)

I'm really becoming aware of the crazy crunch the Spurs will be facing in the next few years. At the end of next year, really. If they have two rookies this draft year, then they're about to have three draft picks in each of the next two years, probably, and just in the first rounds.

Definitely not saying they wouldn't nab a promising player who maybe is underdeveloped. They're just in wildly new territory.

Yeah, definitely that's a consideration.

I didn't say the Spurs would necessarily be interested, just that if that scenario plays out, I could see the Magic making those offers.

Someone like Walker, for example, who probably has an elite role player ceiling, could be more appealing to a team with a centerpiece and three core players than to a team still in search of those things.

[The Truth #6]

Might not be so premium but Rupert is a ton more skilled.

I'm getting up to speed with Rupert. Can you share what you like about him?

[Mr. Body]

Yeah, definitely that's a consideration.

I didn't say the Spurs would necessarily be interested, just that if that scenario plays out, I could see the Magic making those offers.

Someone like Walker, for example, who probably has an elite role player ceiling, could be more appealing to a team with a centerpiece and three core players than to a team still in search of those things.

There has to be a point where the team consolidates draft capital and turns it back into actual existing players. The alternatives are to sell the picks -- which probably happens with second rounders -- and to flip them forward, which I think they may very capably do in the next couple of years.

But it's such a new and odd phenomenon, and one that I'm curious to see how OKC handles it. I'm not sure I remember teams consolidating such a hauls. Thunder did trade like three relatively bad FRPs for Ousmane Dieng this year. Otherwise they can't possibly keep drafting players. You keep turning back the clock on development, you keep killing the picks you just made.

Trading players you don't want for loads of draft picks is totally cool, and Presti got a God-gift from LAC, essentially getting credit for trading Paul George AND Kawhi to them. But now he has to trade FOR players or trade his picks for better pieces somehow and that's a whole different skill and manuever.

We'll shortly be in that boat.

[mo7888]

Black is light years ahead of Nick Smith Jr

A lot of people share your opinion... I'm just not one of them... even though I think Black is better today I believe Smith has more upside.

[Ocotillo]

This is fair. It's what I'm sure Smith's camp is hoping people realize. (I'm not actually sure either has announced yet? Would it be wild if neither of them go this year??)
.

Black did today

[mo7888]

I agree with you, but it's his list, and probably not subject to discussion.

We can certainly discuss it. I think my boards the last couple of years has held up pretty good, but no one's infallible. I totally whiffed on Johnny Davis last year for example.

[Mr. Body]

Black did today

Very cool. Thanks.

[BacktoBasics]

A lot of people share your opinion... I'm just not one of them... even though I think Black is better today I believe Smith has more upside.

Based on what? Which performance? Media hype? Black showed that has a feel for the game that is above average and potentially elite. He checks the intangibles box right away. Hustler and make game/pace changing plays. Doesn’t put himself first and can produce in scoring, passing and defensive. Black is arguably some kind of cross between Giddey and Sochan.

I get he’s a stretch at 4 because he’s not a volume scorer like we need but I’d take him anywhere from 4-8 and be thrilled.

[Dejounte]

I'm getting up to speed with Rupert. Can you share what you like about him?

Did someone say he was a pg? He’s not a pg. Rupert is what people thought Vassell was coming into the draft. When I say he looks like he will be an incredible asset on defense, I’m not joking. There are few with his size that can be as quick as he is to stay in front of ball handlers. People were impressed with Sochan’s versatility? Rupert is the guy who can guard the smaller guys while Sochan defends players slightly larger. Those two on the defensive end and their versatility is a matchmade in heaven.

enough about defense. Rupert’s ball handling is advanced and rare for someone his size. He’s obviously not the shooter that Vassell is, but Rupert can drive to the basket much more efficiently and has the handles to make it easy for him when the scoring becomes more developed.

all the signs are there for this kid to become a star. The mental aspect and drive are the only things that no one can fully grasp until a few years in. Unless he’s lazy or soft, then I see success in his future.

[rascal]

Based on what? Which performance? Media hype? Black showed that has a feel for the game that is above average and potentially elite. He checks the intangibles box right away. Hustler and make game/pace changing plays. Doesn’t put himself first and can produce in scoring, passing and defensive. Black is arguably some kind of cross between Giddey and Sochan.

I get he’s a stretch at 4 because he’s not a volume scorer like we need but I’d take him anywhere from 4-8 and be thrilled.

I would not take Black over Cam.

[Mr. Body]

I would not take Black over Cam.

Yes, you consistently select players who are only athletes over players who actually know how to play basketball.

[rascal]

Yes, you consistently select players who are only athletes over players who actually know how to play basketball.

You consistently pick the worse players with the lower upside.

[mo7888]

Based on what? Which performance? Media hype? Black showed that has a feel for the game that is above average and potentially elite. He checks the intangibles box right away. Hustler and make game/pace changing plays. Doesn’t put himself first and can produce in scoring, passing and defensive. Black is arguably some kind of cross between Giddey and Sochan.

I get he’s a stretch at 4 because he’s not a volume scorer like we need but I’d take him anywhere from 4-8 and be thrilled.

I'm not 'down' on Black and I won't be disappointed if we end up with him. I have Smith Jr ahead of him for a few reasons. I believe he played out of position all year. I project him as a PG in the league. He has better shooting mechanics than Black and is a better overall athlete in my estimation. He played hurt most of the year and didn't sit out as Klutch would have probably liked. His handle needs work, but it's not terrible. Black has better court vision, but not by a lot. My biggest concern for Nick is his mental makeup. I question whether he has the dawg in him he needs at this level, but the fact that he played through pain alleviates that to a certain degree. I'm looking for more info on that when interviews are conducted (and hopefully leak).

As for the draft overall, I love it down to around 20. If we don't get #1 I'd still vet out trading down with Orlando for two picks.

[The Truth #6]

Did someone say he was a pg? He’s not a pg. Rupert is what people thought Vassell was coming into the draft. When I say he looks like he will be an incredible asset on defense, I’m not joking. There are few with his size that can be as quick as he is to stay in front of ball handlers. People were impressed with Sochan’s versatility? Rupert is the guy who can guard the smaller guys while Sochan defends players slightly larger. Those two on the defensive end and their versatility is a matchmade in heaven.

enough about defense. Rupert’s ball handling is advanced and rare for someone his size. He’s obviously not the shooter that Vassell is, but Rupert can drive to the basket much more efficiently and has the handles to make it easy for him when the scoring becomes more developed.

all the signs are there for this kid to become a star. The mental aspect and drive are the only things that no one can fully grasp until a few years in. Unless he’s lazy or soft, then I see success in his future.

Appreciate it. Solid insights.

The Devin comparison is interesting, he has been worse defensively but better offensively than I thought he would be. I like Devin but I’m curious to see how serious his knee injury is; I know the consensus is move on from Keldon in a year, but I at least have a better idea of Keldon, and he’s more durable. Long winded way to say if we end up picking 7, Rupert could get some consideration.

Just rambling…

[BacktoBasics]

I'm not 'down' on Black and I won't be disappointed if we end up with him. I have Smith Jr ahead of him for a few reasons. I believe he played out of position all year. I project him as a PG in the league. He has better shooting mechanics than Black and is a better overall athlete in my estimation. He played hurt most of the year and didn't sit out as Klutch would have probably liked. His handle needs work, but it's not terrible. Black has better court vision, but not by a lot. My biggest concern for Nick is his mental makeup. I question whether he has the dawg in him he needs at this level, but the fact that he played through pain alleviates that to a certain degree. I'm looking for more info on that when interviews are conducted (and hopefully leak).

As for the draft overall, I love it down to around 20. If we don't get #1 I'd still vet out trading down with Orlando for two picks.

I absolutely agree he has better shooting mechanics. I agree he’s probably a better athlete but I think that’s because he’s a little bit more bouncy and not actually more agile etc. The dawg you question in Nick is there in spades for Black.

Then the reality that Black has just about everything else on Nick and I think it’s easy to see who’s the better pick.

But Nick has the edge in media hype. So there’s that.

I’d be disappointed if we drafted Nick.

[Mr. Body]

You consistently pick the worse players with the lower upside.

Like Jeremy Sochan and Alperen Sengun?

[mo7888]

I absolutely agree he has better shooting mechanics. I agree he’s probably a better athlete but I think that’s because he’s a little bit more bouncy and not actually more agile etc. The dawg you question in Nick is there in spades for Black.

Then the reality that Black has just about everything else on Nick and I think it’s easy to see who’s the better pick.

But Nick has the edge in media hype. So there’s that.

I’d be disappointed if we drafted Nick.

I do think Black has Dawg in him and that's part of the reason he has a higher floor. As for media hype, I'm pretty sure Black has much more hype right now than Smith. Espn ranks Black higher now as an example. Black is a safe pick, but Smith can be special imo...

[rascal]

Like Jeremy Sochan and Alperen Sengun?

You like Sochan better than Sharpe.

Sharpe is better with the higher upside.

[mo7888]

You like Sochan better than Sharpe.

Sharpe is better with the higher upside.

Sharpe is not currently better than Sochan and he's not even that close. Upside is a different issue though. I think upside between these two is an interesting debate. I might give the nod to Sharpe here because elite offense is more valuable than elite Defense, but Sharpes D is so much much worse than Sochan's O that it makes the debate interesting.

[exstatic]

I absolutely agree he has better shooting mechanics. I agree he’s probably a better athlete but I think that’s because he’s a little bit more bouncy and not actually more agile etc. The dawg you question in Nick is there in spades for Black.

Then the reality that Black has just about everything else on Nick and I think it’s easy to see who’s the better pick.

But Nick has the edge in media hype. So there’s that.

I’d be disappointed if we drafted Nick.

Black has one stat that NSJ will never approach, and it goes straight to the dawg in him: FTA rate. His FTA rate is .578. What that means is that for every FGA he has, he earns .578 FTs. He gets to the line A LOT. That destroys anyone else in TaT’s top ten.

[JPB]

Nothing against Black but I would be disappointed if spurs get him. He's a nice glue guy and good at a lot of things but not a game changer and the top leading star you'd hope spurs get after that laborious tank. BBIQ is one thing, but at the end of the day, unless you're a Curry/Luka/Jokic/Wemby/Durant type of player (which Black is not) atheticism is what will make you stand out and dominate in that league. Sure you need to understand the game but that's not rocket science either and something you can do over time while it's harder to teach athletiscism, explosivity, leap (and of course size).

It's OK to pick Kyle anderson at 29 when you're a contender because he's high BBIQ and he fits, it's another to pick Black this year when you're today spurs. Gimme some potential star/superstar with high ceiling. A money player who will take over games in the crunch, gets the crowd in, and drags everyone behind him.

[JPB]

Black has one stat that NSJ will never approach, and it goes straight to the dawg in him: FTA rate. His FTA rate is .578. What that means is that for every FGA he has, he earns .578 FTs. He gets to the line A LOT. That destroys anyone else in TaT’s top ten.

That against kids in college, he doesn't get that with his frame against NBA athletes.

[Mr. Body]

That against kids in college, he doesn't get that with his frame against NBA athletes.

Have you seen the league lately? The guards who dominate are skinny dudes who know how to make contact near the rim. SGA and Morant are not big guys but they get wild amount of free throws added because they have the uncanny knack for drawing could that Black has. In this era that stat will translate. It's all about getting the contract while the defender is shifting and he does it the same as they do.

[exstatic]

Nothing against Black but I would be disappointed if spurs get him. He's a nice glue guy and good at a lot of things but not a game changer and the top leading star you'd hope spurs get after that laborious tank. BBIQ is one thing, but at the end of the day, unless you're a Curry/Luka/Jokic/Wemby/Durant type of player (which Black is not) atheticism is what will make you stand out and dominate in that league. Sure you need to understand the game but that's not rocket science either and something you can do over time while it's harder to teach athletiscism, explosivity, leap (and of course size).

It's OK to pick Kyle anderson at 29 when you're a contender because he's high BBIQ and he fits, it's another to pick Black this year when you're today spurs. Gimme some potential star/superstar with high ceiling. A money player who will take over games in the crunch, gets the crowd in, and drags everyone behind him.

You might want to read this article. It cuts to just what a lot of analysts, and almost all fans get wrong in evaluating players.

BTW, KawhiLeonard, who developed into an absolute superstar, had a max vert of only 32”. It’s not about athleticism. If it were, Lonnie would be an All Star,but he isn’t, and never will be.

https://deanondraft.com/2023/02/01/the-downside-of-upside/

[Mr. Body]

Nothing against Black but I would be disappointed if spurs get him. He's a nice glue guy and good at a lot of things but not a game changer and the top leading star you'd hope spurs get after that laborious tank. BBIQ is one thing, but at the end of the day, unless you're a Curry/Luka/Jokic/Wemby/Durant type of player (which Black is not) atheticism is what will make you stand out and dominate in that league. Sure you need to understand the game but that's not rocket science either and something you can do over time while it's harder to teach athletiscism, explosivity, leap (and of course size).

It's OK to pick Kyle anderson at 29 when you're a contender because he's high BBIQ and he fits, it's another to pick Black this year when you're today spurs. Gimme some potential star/superstar with high ceiling. A money player who will take over games in the crunch, gets the crowd in, and drags everyone behind him.

How many of the league's big stars are actually that athletic? Giannis? LeBron was huge and powerful, not a freak athlete. Westbrook was at one point. Who else? That's about it.

[The Truth #6]

Nothing against Black but I would be disappointed if spurs get him. He's a nice glue guy and good at a lot of things but not a game changer and the top leading star you'd hope spurs get after that laborious tank. BBIQ is one thing, but at the end of the day, unless you're a Curry/Luka/Jokic/Wemby/Durant type of player (which Black is not) atheticism is what will make you stand out and dominate in that league. Sure you need to understand the game but that's not rocket science either and something you can do over time while it's harder to teach athletiscism, explosivity, leap (and of course size).

It's OK to pick Kyle anderson at 29 when you're a contender because he's high BBIQ and he fits, it's another to pick Black this year when you're today spurs. Gimme some potential star/superstar with high ceiling. A money player who will take over games in the crunch, gets the crowd in, and drags everyone behind him.

I would be disappointed if the Spurs pick Black at like #3, but for me personally, I like Black if we slip all the way back to like 6 or 7. Not saying he's my only consideration. But I do think when other people show interest in Black it's in the context of Spurs falling back in the lottery, and so if we are picking 6 or 7, is there a player with the high upside that you are thinking of?

I'm just curious, if Spurs are at say #6 or 7, would you pick Black or a Thompson twin? I think that is an interesting debate, and one the Spurs might find themselves in.

[exstatic]

I would be disappointed if the Spurs pick Black at like #3, but for me personally, I like Black if we slip all the way back to like 6 or 7. Not saying he's my only consideration. But I do think when other people show interest in Black it's in the context of Spurs falling back in the lottery, and so if we are picking 6 or 7, is there a player with the high upside that you are thinking of?

I'm just curious, if Spurs are at say #6 or 7, would you pick Black or a Thompson twin? I think that is an interesting debate, and one the Spurs might find themselves in.
I think almost everyone here would pick a Thompson, but the Spurs would pick Black.

This is also why I don't stress about 6 or 7. The first three picks are pretty much set, with some debate over 2-3, and the Thompsons are likely to go 4,5, so if we're 6-7, that leaves Black and Hendricks on the board.

[Mr. Body]

Yeah, you pick Black. He's far more likely to be an effective NBA player.

I think a lot of the rhetoric around Black is mistaken. He's not weak. He's not unathletic. He's actually pretty well-built for his position, not just a tall skinny dude. His lateral quickness and maneuverability is very high. He can jump, but yes, it takes some runway. But athleticism is not just jumping. I have no idea why people keep thinking it's just jumping. He's very nimble on the court. He scraps and drives into contact; he doesn't shy away from it.

It's engaging in a fallacy, I admit, by assuming the case in one situation transfers to another, but many were adamant that Sochan would never be a star, could only be a complementary piece. It turns out transferring his skill base and active skills into a wider-spaced NBA game caused him to start ringing a lot of bells. I do see similarities.

I feel like we're going around in circles about some of these players. I am less enthusiastic about Black than I was about Sochan last year, who was 100% my pick at the time. But then we're not picking at #9. I would 1000% pick Black at #9 this year! I just don't think Black's as good as a player coming out of his freshman year as Sochan and may never be. It's awkward drafting that guy after a rough year.

[exstatic]

Yeah, you pick Black. He's far more likely to be an effective NBA player.

I think a lot of the rhetoric around Black is mistaken. He's not weak. He's not unathletic. He's actually pretty well-built for his position, not just a tall skinny dude. His lateral quickness and maneuverability is very high. He can jump, but yes, it takes some runway. But athleticism is not just jumping. I have no idea why people keep thinking it's just jumping. He's very nimble on the court. He scraps and drives into contact; he doesn't shy away from it.

It's engaging in a fallacy, I admit, by assuming the case in one situation transfers to another, but many were adamant that Sochan would never be a star, could only be a complementary piece. It turns out transferring his skill base and active skills into a wider-spaced NBA game caused him to start ringing a lot of bells. I do see similarities.

I feel like we're going around in circles about some of these players. I am less enthusiastic about Black than I was about Sochan last year, who was 100% my pick at the time. But then we're not picking at #9. I would 1000% pick Black at #9 this year! I just don't think Black's as good as a player coming out of his freshman year as Sochan and may never be. It's awkward drafting that guy after a rough year.

Black needs more coin flips, using Dean's terminology, to go his way than Sochan did. I don't see them as insurmountable, though. He needs to clean up his handle, although he was playing out of position (PG) because NSJ was injured most of the year. He needs to clean up his shot. He keeps his left hand on the ball WAY too long, like Sochan, yet somehow was able to shoot 70% FTs on a good sample size even with that janky form. He needs to clean up his defensive form. He has all of the tools, but bites on fakes too often, either jumping or overcommitting one way or another. So, three coin flips: shot, handle, defensive form/discipline.

I see him as a 2, but one who can moonlight up or down one position.

[pad300]

I think almost everyone here would pick a Thompson, but the Spurs would pick Black.

...

I think you're wrong with your assessment of the Spurs FO these days. They are looking for a first option and are willing to take long shots on development; consider they picked Primo over Sengun. Apparently because they thought that Primo, with development (longer path though), had a better/more valuable archetype. They also don't have a hate for OTE players (they picked up Barlow). The twins are some of the highest potential shots on the board... I suspect that they are much higher on the Spurs draft board than you would like.

My guess at the Spurs draft board
Tier 1
Wemby (duh)

Tier 2
Scoot
Thompson Twins

I suspect that Brandon Miller is on a don't draft list after his off-court issues and poor march madness performance.

[Mr. Body]

I think you're wrong with your assessment of the Spurs FO these days. They are looking for a first option and are willing to take long shots on development; consider they picked Primo over Sengun. Apparently because they thought that Primo, with development (longer path though), had a better/more valuable archetype. They also don't have a hate for OTE players (they picked up Barlow). The twins are some of the highest potential shots on the board... I suspect that they are much higher on the Spurs draft board than you would like.

My guess at the Spurs draft board
Tier 1
Wemby (duh)

Tier 2
Scoot
Thompson Twins

I suspect that Brandon Miller is on a don't draft list after his off-court issues and poor march madness performance.

Primo was much more prepared to play advanced team basketball than the Thompson twins are at this point. It seems reasonable that they will require a lot of preparation. And Primo at draft time was almost two full years younger than they are now.

They picked up Barlow because he was free. I'm sure they would have drafted him with their SRP if they had to. Would they have used a lottery pick on him? Doubtful.

I don't doubt there's a point where the Spurs would draft Amen or Ausar. I just don't know that it would be with their high lotto pick. The word 'potential' is a difficult one. I place more potential with players who already show basketball ability rather than being run-and-jump athletes. However, Ausar does show some good shooting stats and that helps.

Also, I'm not entirely sure they're looking for a 'first option' in the sense that that is a high usage iso scorer type. That's not what the Spurs run or what they seem to want. Besides, neither Thompson kid seems like a first option at all in any fashion.

[rascal]

That against kids in college, he doesn't get that with his frame against NBA athletes.

Exactly, thinking his numbers will translate directly to the NBA. Black will be a better college player than an NBA player.

[exstatic]

I think you're wrong with your assessment of the Spurs FO these days. They are looking for a first option and are willing to take long shots on development; consider they picked Primo over Sengun. Apparently because they thought that Primo, with development (longer path though), had a better/more valuable archetype. They also don't have a hate for OTE players (they picked up Barlow). The twins are some of the highest potential shots on the board... I suspect that they are much higher on the Spurs draft board than you would like.

My guess at the Spurs draft board
Tier 1
Wemby (duh)

Tier 2
Scoot
Thompson Twins

I suspect that Brandon Miller is on a don't draft list after his off-court issues and poor march madness performance.

So, you're saying that the Spurs learned the Primo lesson of off the court stuff, but not draft over reaching? Also, Sengun isn't a star in the making or a desirable archtype as a center. Also Sengun played in a really good league, and Primo played in a high D1 NCAA program, and they were both young, both 18 on draft night.

The comparison is SGs to a SG. Barlow was OTE, but we didn't draft him, let alone expend a lottery pick on him. I recall a Pop quote about him being a good kid, but basically knowing nothing about basketball. OTE is fucking garbage, and if you consider them a legit development platform, then we don't have a frame of reference to even have a discussion. The Thompson Twins were messing around, playing in a nothing league against HS players. Oh, and they're 20.

[rascal]

How many of the league's big stars are actually that athletic? Giannis? LeBron was huge and powerful, not a freak athlete. Westbrook was at one point. Who else? That's about it.

Most all of them have athleticism, or incredible perimeter shooting or extreme quickness to the basket to beat their man.

[exstatic]

That against kids in college, he doesn't get that with his frame against NBA athletes.

So, then none of the other college players will hit their lesser numbers, either? Still puts him ahead, and not a little bit. He's shockingly better than everyone else in the top 10 at getting to the line, including Wemby, like more than double the rate of many of them.

[Mr. Body]

Most all of them have athleticism, or incredible perimeter shooting or extreme quickness to the basket to beat their man.

No, I literally just said almost none of them are supreme athletes in the NBA. Many of them aren't even that quick. Embiid, Harden, Lillard, Doncic, Jokic, Kawhi, George, Siakim, Tatum, Jaylen Brown, Beale, Randle, Durant, Chris Paul, Booker, Davis. Not a single one of them are what you'd call extremely quick. Most of them you wouldn't say are unbelievable athletes. Only Curry you could say is quick, but he's also not blazingly quick.

You can say Morant is a supreme athlete. Giannis is very athletic, but not absurdly so.

[mo7888]

I think almost everyone here would pick a Thompson, but the Spurs would pick Black.

This is also why I don't stress about 6 or 7. The first three picks are pretty much set, with some debate over 2-3, and the Thompsons are likely to go 4,5, so if we're 6-7, that leaves Black and Hendricks on the board.

It also leaves Walker and Cam, as well as Gradey Dick..

[exstatic]

It also leaves Walker and Cam, as well as Gradey Dick..

If they're your cup of tea, sure.

[mo7888]

If they're your cup of tea, sure.

Moreover than Black, so I guess yes...

[exstatic]

Moreover than Black, so I guess yes...

Everyone backs their own horses. I'm not even trying to get the 2023 draft right. If I were, I'd have the Thompsons higher, where they will inevitably get drafted. I'm trying to nail the two year redraft two years early where everyone says "how did we get that so wrong?".

[The Truth #6]

I don't think it's a lock at all that the Thompson go 4 and 5, so I think there is likely some wiggle room.

[exstatic]

I don't think it's a lock at all that the Thompson go 4 and 5, so I think there is likely some wiggle room.

I watch teams select 'deer' year after year, so I'm skeptical of your optimism. Even good organizations like GS screw the pooch, sometimes more than once, like with Kuminga and Wiseman.

[Mr. Body]

I don't think it's a lock at all that the Thompson go 4 and 5, so I think there is likely some wiggle room.

I agree.

[K...]

I watch teams select 'deer' year after year, so I'm skeptical of your optimism. Even good organizations like GS screw the pooch, sometimes more than once, like with Kuminga and Wiseman.

Well timvp says the Thompson twins are top 3 and 4 on his big board, so maybe the spurs are that team this year.

[The Truth #6]

I watch teams select 'deer' year after year, so I'm skeptical of your optimism. Even good organizations like GS screw the pooch, sometimes more than once, like with Kuminga and Wiseman.

I mean, even going by the mock drafts, Ausar is typically around 6 through 8, I thought, unless that's changed. I agree teams can get enamored with low floor and high upside players and group think, for sure. But I can easily see Jarace or Cam go before Ausar, for example.

[exstatic]

I don't think it's a lock at all that the Thompson go 4 and 5, so I think there is likely some wiggle room.

One caveat is that if Toronto jumps into the top 4, they wouldn't touch either with a 10 foot pole. Masai doesn't fall for the hype or the groupthink. EVERYONE had them picking Suggs, since they were letting Lowry roll off, and they picked Barnes instead.

[The Truth #6]

Speaking of Ausar, I think it's funny that he won OTE MVP and his brother is still considered the much better prospect.

[exstatic]

Well timvp says the Thompson twins are top 3 and 4 on his big board, so maybe the spurs are that team this year.

He may be trying to get the draft positioning right instead of the early two year re-draft like I am. If I were trying to actually nail the actual draft night selections, they'd be higher.

[JPB]

How many of the league's big stars are actually that athletic? Giannis? LeBron was huge and powerful, not a freak athlete. Westbrook was at one point. Who else? That's about it.

Giannis, Embiid, George, Nephew, Lebron, AD, KAT, Gobert, Butler, Tatum, Jaylen Brown, Siakam, Donovan Mitchell, Kirye Irving, Ja Morant, Zion (when healthy) and on and on... are NBA athletes

Now when you look like Anthony Black (a supposed 3, 2 or whatever) you really got to have some really special, great skills like Durant or Wemby to be a real dominant star... (Trae or even Booker aren't leading you anywhere as alpha dogs.)

Black don't have those special skills. He's a nice player (to be confirmed tho) but nothing transcendent... Nice complementay player maybe but not a guy who will dominate. This is not who you tanked for if you ask me. The guy has litterally no pecs or shoulders, he's gonna end up in the stands anytime Embiid boxes him out.

Joel Embiid

https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/rMKkcC_KTD-Dtze3OyCwtiIPJhU=/0x0:4500x3000/920x613/filters:focal(1780x530:2500x1250):format(webp)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/72031101/1470564531.0.jpg

KAT

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/55/Karl-Anthony_Towns_%2851914283512%29_%28cropped%29_%28c ropped%29.jpg

Tatum

https://images2.minutemediacdn.com/image/fetch/w_850,h_560,c_fill,g_auto,f_auto/https%3A%2F%2Ffansided.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Fimagn-images%2F2022%2F10%2F19124009-850x560.jpeg

AD

https://phantom-marca.unidadeditorial.es/06faa5c591592272d774260787bd893e/resize/720/f/webp/assets/multimedia/imagenes/2022/11/14/16684588349505.jpg

Butler

https://e0.365dm.com/21/08/1600x900/skysports-nba-miami-heat-jimmy-butler_5471233.jpg?20210807164810

Giannis

https://sportshub.cbsistatic.com/i/r/2023/04/12/6efc5089-5dbd-4566-8f86-6ad936c22af4/thumbnail/770x433/fd62c65cbe004f10c223a6933ad12c5a/giannis-getty-12.png

George

https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/EgAIT6Hfm5TFrNoQSOGChg--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjt3PTk2MDtoPTY0MDtjZj13ZWJw/https://s.yimg.com/os/creatr-uploaded-images/2023-03/1dd92e90-c8e2-11ed-aee9-e7748e5a3dbd

Nephew

https://library.sportingnews.com/styles/crop_style_16_9_desktop_webp/s3/2021-08/kawhi-leonard-getty-112019-ftrjpg_48uvfykxdugc1hkicboziuueh.jpg.webp?itok=yo8 8dGKY

Anthony Black

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FeMACiIWQAEMQP4?format=jpg&name=large

[rascal]

Anthony Black is not going to be anything special in the NBA. That hair is a joke too.

His potential upside is at a similar or even below level to the type of players already on the team.

[exstatic]

https://madison365.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/young-giannis.jpg

Not everyone who starts skinny stays skinny...

[Vince Carter's ankle]

Anthony Black is not going to be anything special in the NBA. That hair is a joke too.
https://sun9-19.userapi.com/impg/Jbb-gwOWkWnRgRfwr_e8sQGAgH9PDjkHmh-KoA/y0T-CQ2rpCc.jpg?size=680x383&quality=96&sign=99a4285f4a274635ec13bbed3a52fc6a&type=album

[The Truth #6]

[QUOTE=JPB;10883605]Giannis, Embiid, George, Nephew, Lebron, AD, KAT, Gobert, Butler, Tatum, Jaylen Brown, Siakam, Donovan Mitchell, Kirye Irving, Ja Morant, Zion (when healthy) and on and on... are NBA athletes

Now when you look like Anthony Black (a supposed 3/4) you really got to have some really special, great skills like Durant or Wemby to be a real dominant star... (Trae or even Booker aren't leading you anywhere as alpha dogs.)

Black don't have those special skills. He's a nice player (to be confirmed tho) but nothing transcendent... Nice complementay player maybe but not a guy who will dominate. This is not who you tanked for if you ask me. The guy has litterally no pecs or shoulders, he's gonna end up in the stands anytime Embiid boxes him out.




We're tanking for Wemby, obviously, but still, if we end up at 5-7, we still have to take somebody, and those are players with more question marks. I guess that's how I'm seeing it.

[Mr. Body]

Giannis, Embiid, George, Nephew, Lebron, AD, KAT, Gobert, Butler, Tatum, Jaylen Brown, Siakam, Donovan Mitchell, Kirye Irving, Ja Morant, Zion (when healthy) and on and on... are NBA athletes.

Yes, I said they are NBA athletes.

Anthony Black is much more athletic than you and too many other people acknowledge.

[exstatic]

Giannis, Embiid, George, Nephew, Lebron, AD, KAT, Gobert, Butler, Tatum, Jaylen Brown, Siakam, Donovan Mitchell, Kirye Irving, Ja Morant, Zion (when healthy) and on and on... are NBA athletes

Now when you look like Anthony Black (a supposed 3/4) you really got to have some really special, great skills like Durant or Wemby to be a real dominant star... (Trae or even Booker aren't leading you anywhere as alpha dogs.)

Black don't have those special skills. He's a nice player (to be confirmed tho) but nothing transcendent... Nice complementay player maybe but not a guy who will dominate. This is not who you tanked for if you ask me. The guy has litterally no pecs or shoulders, he's gonna end up in the stands anytime Embiid boxes him out.



Where TF did you get the idea he's a 3/4? He's a 2 who was forced into playing a lot of 1 last year with NSJ injured on the bench. He can play SOME up or down one position. He's not a 4, even in college.

[JPB]

https://madison365.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/young-giannis.jpg

Not everyone who starts skinny stays skinny...

I don't know if Young Giannis is supposed to look skinny on that pic but he's already 5 times more athletic than Black will ever be. And that's before talking about Giannis vertical leap and explosivity.

[exstatic]

I don't know if Young Giannis is supposed to look skinny on that pic but he's already 5 times more athletic than Black will ever be. And that's before talking about Giannis vertical leap and explosivity.

So's Lonnie Walker. Vertical isn't everything, and sometimes doesn't matter at all.

[Mr. Body]

Where TF did you get the idea he's a 3/4? He's a 2 who was forced into playing a lot of 1 last year with NSJ injured on the bench. He can play SOME up or down one position. He's not a 4, even in college.

Thanks I missed that part. Black's position is flexible/fluid. To me, he's a straight up PG and there's little question about that. I think he can be slotted as a 2 or a 3, but I don't think you want to stick him in the corner all the time.

He's absolutely not a 4. Kinda getting the impression people haven't even bothered watching him play, much less watch a basic YT vid on his strengths/weaknesses. They just see some goofy kid with funky hair and that's their assessment.

[Mr. Body]

So's Lonnie Walker. Vertical isn't everything, and sometimes doesn't matter at all.

Only place vertical matters is at the rim and ususally by then it's too late.

[rascal]

Nothing jumps off the page watching black's highlights that tells me his upside is anything better than what the Spurs currently have on the roster.

Cam who'll get pick around the same area looks far better as a more powerful player with explosiveness to the basket.

[Vince Carter's ankle]

watching black's highlights
Certainly an authoritative assessment.

[Mr. Body]

Nothing jumps off the page watching black's highlights that tells me his upside is anything better than what the Spurs currently have on the roster.

Cam who'll get pick around the same area looks far better as a more powerful player with explosiveness to the basket.

I'm pretty sure you've never seen any single one of these players play. Cam wasn't even close to the basketball player Black was. Who gives a flying fuck about 'explosiveness'. Jesus Christ, lol.

[DPG21920]

I’m so intrigued by the twins…if Spurs dont land top 3, I would be very happy I think with either Amen/Ausar

Welp - evidently the Spurs are very intrigued by the twins as well. I would not take them over Wemby/Scoot, but I get the appeal even if it’s risky as hell.

[The Truth #6]

Welp - evidently the Spurs are very intrigued by the twins as well. I would not take them over Wemby/Scoot, but I get the appeal even if it’s risky as hell.

I'm definitely intrigued as well.

They do have high character and a strong family background as far as I can tell, and to be honest, I think that goes a long way with the Spurs.

[The Truth #6]

As for explosiveness, I agree that it's a good thing but I also agree that it's not the only type of athleticism. Cam, for example, is very much quick twitch and a high leaper, but I see so many videos of him launching himself into situations and falling down a lot. Like a lot. It's very awkward. I see Anthony Black as not as explosive up or in a straight line but great laterally which is probably more important and seems very agile and coordinated, fluid, basically.

[JPB]

Where TF did you get the idea he's a 3/4? He's a 2 who was forced into playing a lot of 1 last year with NSJ injured on the bench. He can play SOME up or down one position. He's not a 4, even in college.

You're correct, wanted to say 2/3. My Mistake. It's true he can play the point and has a great court vision but I'm not sure you want him as your point in that spurs team. With Sochan already capable in that role (as a 4) + Tre or any natural PG, you need some natural 2-3 slashers around, the kind of talented drivers or swingmen SA has been desperately lacking for years... I mean, we had one but he couldn't wipe his own ass. Keldon is OK but gimme even half a Tatum or Giannis and I'm good. Miller was potentially that guy and my guy for a while, but nah...

[mo7888]

Everyone backs their own horses. I'm not even trying to get the 2023 draft right. If I were, I'd have the Thompsons higher, where they will inevitably get drafted. I'm trying to nail the two year redraft two years early where everyone says "how did we get that so wrong?".

I hear ya.... I'm not trying to get the draft right either.... I just do my own board every year based on how I project players at this level...

[BackHome]

I like Black but I question where we play him I didn't see all of his games but the game against Alabama did not impress me as the PG. But then again I don't think he was played right as they kind of played PG by committee at least in that game and the ones that I watched when Nic was out. One question is who is going to the bench for him is he beating out Vassell or Keldon and I don't really see him as a PG he is a decent athlete but he gets blown by fast guards pretty easily way to much. But I get the appeal he does a lot of things to help you win but doesn't excel in one thing.

To be honest after the first pick I don't have a pet cat in who I want I am just going to trust the Spurs and hope they do a better background check can't be picking another flasher..lol.

1.Wemb - Unicorn but can he stay healthy?
2.Scoot - Athlete but can his shooting improve and can he prove a PG can take you to the promise land?
3.Miller - Perfect fit but we will not do it....I would be shocked if we did
4.Cam - Very athletic SF/PF has nice floor and high upside biggest question is ball IQ but he has the dog in him
5.Ausur - A Deer shot has improved but can he play in half court and be a off ball threat
6.Amen - A Super Deer with a terrible shooting mechanics but is the most Athletic draft prospect in a long time - Decent Floor - Very High Potential - The word "Potential" has gotten a lot of GM's fired
7.Walker - I like him but we got Sochan don't see them being able to play together
8. Black - Good player just does not excel in anything
9. Dick - I actually think he might be one of the steals of the draft if he drops he excels in the 3 ball will be very interested in his measurements and cone scores
10. Hendricks - A lesser Miller? he has potential have heard he might be a legit 6'10 the potential is there and I can see him playing off Sochan
11.Sensabaugh - Another kid that I like he is growing on me love his shooting

[tonight...you]

I keep hearing the same on Black that I heard over and over on Sochan.

Great D, great feel, coachable, okay at everything else not a guy who you really want.

I heard the same thing about Kawhi.
Great D, great feel, gym rat. Okay at everything else. Not a guy you really want.


I'm okay with watching how shit plays out instead of listening to you over-anxious know-it-alls.

Primo not-withstanding since he had an undisclosed weirdness that became disclosed rather quickly.

[JPB]

I keep hearing the same on Black that I heard over and over on Sochan.

Great D, great feel, coachable, okay at everything else not a guy who you really want.

I heard the same thing about Kawhi.
Great D, great feel, gym rat. Okay at everything else. Not a guy you really want.


I'm okay with watching how shit plays out instead of listening to you over-anxious know-it-alls.

Primo not-withstanding since he had an undisclosed weirdness that became disclosed rather quickly.

That's 3 different players and different contextes. Sochan was selected at 9 after what wasn't a tanking year and Kawhi at 15 during SA contending years. Spurs tanked this year to try and get dat badly missed franchise/ game changing caliber player that nor Sochan or Black are. They're nice players but next to a scoring star. And black is no Kawhi either, his ceiling isn't MPV. You do'nt build your team around him while spurs already have Sochan in that same style at a different post. If all you have is glue guys, all you got is glue at the end.

For the record, many people wanted Sochan here. And if you just want to see how it plays out, then don't come here on a forum where people give and discuss what is just their opinion to try and patronize everyone. Just go wait anxiously somewhe else.

[exstatic]

That's 3 different players and different contextes. Sochan was selected at 9 after what wasn't a tanking year and Kawhi at 15 during SA contending years. Spurs tanked this year to try and get dat badly missed franchise/ game changing caliber player that nor Sochan or Black are. They're nice players but next to a scoring star. And black is no Kawhi either, his ceiling isn't MPV.

For the record, many people wanted Sochan here. And if you just want to see how it plays out, then don't come here on a forum where people give and discuss what is just their opinion to try and patronize everyone. Just go wait anxiously somewhe else.
Kawhi ceiling, as a prospect, was nowhere near MVP. If it were, he never would have lasted to pick #15. He hit his 99.9% development point.

Oh, and the Spurs tanked this year for Wemby, not in the faint hope that one of the other players will go full Kawhi.

[rascal]

Thanks I missed that part. Black's position is flexible/fluid. To me, he's a straight up PG and there's little question about that. I think he can be slotted as a 2 or a 3, but I don't think you want to stick him in the corner all the time.

He's absolutely not a 4. Kinda getting the impression people haven't even bothered watching him play, much less watch a basic YT vid on his strengths/weaknesses. They just see some goofy kid with funky hair and that's their assessment.

I like Hood-Shifino more than Black as a pg. He's more of a true pg than Black, has better handles and passing pg skills and better shooting form.

Black doesn't shoot well enough to be a strong starting NBA 2 guard too. So both on the board I'd take Hood-Shifino for PG over Black.

[tonight...you]

That's 3 different players and different contextes. Sochan was selected at 9 after what wasn't a tanking year and Kawhi at 15 during SA contending years. Spurs tanked this year to try and get dat badly missed franchise/ game changing caliber player that nor Sochan or Black are. They're nice players but next to a scoring star. And black is no Kawhi either, his ceiling isn't MPV. You do'nt build your team around him while spurs already have Sochan in that same style at a different post. If all you have is glue guys, all you got is glue at the end.

For the record, many people wanted Sochan here. And if you just want to see how it plays out, then don't come here on a forum where people give and discuss what is just their opinion to try and patronize everyone. Just go wait anxiously somewhe else.
Well look at you all sassy-like!
I'll go where I please, thank you.

[JPB]

Well look at you all sassy-like!
I'll go where I please, thank you.

Ofc you will, and try to play the lil boss, and everywhere people will tell you not to patronize them and move on if you don't have anything to bring to the table other than insults...

And eventually not to come in a thread dedicated to the draft just to say "Hey, I don't want to talk about that the draft, I'll just wait!!! M'kay, you anxious, know it alls?!! because believe or not, we'll keep on sharing our different views and impressions about those prospects until up to the draft, with or without your anger.

[JPB]

Kawhi ceiling, as a prospect, was nowhere near MVP. If it were, he never would have lasted to pick #15. He hit his 99.9% development point.

Oh, and the Spurs tanked this year for Wemby, not in the faint hope that one of the other players will go full Kawhi.

You're right in a vaccum about Kawhi, but I suppose spurs still imagined he could at least scratch that potential under their managment if they were ready to trade Hill for him... And not sure spurs just tanked for Wemby tbh. They did because they finally had to do it after refusing for years, and because they realized they weren't going anywhere with Murray... Sure Wemby might have definitely triggered them but I suppose they first of all wanted a potential game changer, be it Victor, Scoot or whoever could play the role. Wemby or not, I believe they would have tanked anyway. But for sure Wemby helped embracing the process.

[tonight...you]

Ofc you will, and try to play the lil boss, and everywhere people will tell you not to patronize them and move on if you don't have anything to bring to the table other than insults...

And eventually not to come in a thread dedicated to the draft just to say "Hey, I don't want to talk about that the draft, I'll just wait!!! M'kay, you anxious, know it alls?!! because believe or not, we'll keep on sharing our different views and impressions about those prospects until up to the draft, with or without your anger.
https://i.gifer.com/NJfb.gif

[BackHome]

Yeah Wemb makes it easier as far as tanking but we were heading that way eventually it might have pushed it up a year to some but most feel this should have been done right after Kawhi was traded. As far as this draft yeah Wemb the prize but if we can get someone who can develop up to there potential like Kawhi did I will be Very Happy. The next few years were going to have a lot of Lottery picks just hope we find Gold with one of them

[barakz21]

Yeah Wemb makes it easier as far as tanking but we were heading that way eventually it might have pushed it up a year to some but most feel this should have been done right after Kawhi was traded. As far as this draft yeah Wemb the prize but if we can get someone who can develop up to their potential like Kawhi did I will be Very Happy. The next few years were going to have a lot of Lottery picks just hope we find Gold with one of them

Interesting. If the Spurs went full rebuild after the nephew situation, I wonder who they might gotten in those years. I mean, we know who the lottery picks were in those years. But who would the Spurs have picked if they were in the lottery those years.

[Ariel]

Random thought: If the Spurs fall out of the top 4 and the Magic don't leapfrog them, I could see them trying to either consolidate their own pick plus the Bulls one or their own pick plus Suggs for the Spurs pick and maybe Wesley.

I wouldn't have interest in Suggs. Durability concerns, can't shoot or run an offense and relatively expensive, but by all accounts "Spurs material" and would somewhat fit a positional need.
I've posted about a trade down scenario with Orlando multiple times in order to turn 1 lottery pick into 2, but that has lost its appeal to me somewhat, given that the 2nd pick (Chicago's) would be at 11 at best (if it jumps into top 4 Chicago keeps the pick). Unless I was sure someone interesting was available at that position (say Hendricks or Black) then I wouldn't risk losing a better prospect for a Gradey Dick or a Cason Wallace.

[BackHome]

Just for fun I sim the Lotto a dozen times and 80% Tankathon has us picking the Thompson twins - the others were either Wemb or Scoot - and only had us picking Miller in 1 of the 12.

[scott]

Just for fun I sim the Lotto a dozen times and 80% Tankathon has us picking the Thompson twins - the others were either Wemb or Scoot - and only had us picking Miller in 1 of the 12.

I will say, if the Spurs are really high on the Thompsons, it gives me less stress about potentially falling all the way down to 6. Picks 1-6, you are guaranteed one of Wemby, Scoot, Miller, Cam, Amen or Ausar. It's in that 3.5% chance of falling to 7 (50% chance we fall to the 3 slot, which results in a 7% chance of falling to 7) where things start to really suck.

[BackHome]

Watched the Kings and Warriors game pretty much if you can not his the three ball or take it to the rim your pretty much worthless on offense.

[Ariel]

A glimpse into Amen Thompson's future:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PS369ZNqB1g

[JPB]

Watched the Kings and Warriors game pretty much if you can not his the three ball or take it to the rim your pretty much worthless on offense.

Blake Wesley isn't happy about that post.

[exstatic]

Blake Wesley isn't happy about that post.

Weird flex. Blake shot 38.5% from long.

[JPB]

Weird flex. Blake shot 38.5% from long.

A bit more than 0.5 3PTs made per game on 1.4 attempts (37 games played this season) and with a 32.1% total shooting percentage, going several games not knocking one 3. He basically made half a 3 pointer a game on half a season.
Very small sample, def not telling for Blake who can't rely on that to find a spot in the rotation giving how awful he is at finishing at the rim.

[Dejounte]

https://youtu.be/vH4r0OSF2P0

Tbh you don’t need to be the fastest, the most explosive, or the best shooter… as long as you can slow the game down, make reads, and process the game quickly, you can be a winning point guard. Jrue wasn’t always this good, I think he elevated his game in his late 20’s. But this is what a real point guard looks like, provided you don’t have godly shooting like Curry (probably will never be another player like him in a decade or two).

[exstatic]

A bit more than 0.5 3PTs made per game on 1.4 attempts (37 games played this season) and with a 32.1% total shooting percentage, going several games not knocking one 3. He basically made half a 3 pointer a game on half a season.
Very small sample, def not telling for Blake who can't rely on that to find a spot in the rotation giving how awful he is at finishing at the rim.

I’ll give you the TS% and the rim finishing, but the original post was about 3 point shooting, and even with the small sample size, he shoots 38.5%, and all the backpedaling in the world won’t change that.

[BackHome]

You know I am still really high on Blake I think people forget he was drafted as a project meaning he had high potential but his current floor was low due to unrefined ball skills. To be honest I was shocked that he got so much playing time with the big club I thought for sure he was G Laague bound for at least his first year. But I guess Pop and company figured out he had the personality to handle failures and not let it impact his game that is a good sign that he doesn’t have that fear factor he definitely has the shooter attitude which bodes well for his future.

Going into next year it will be interesting to see what they want from him and how they going to develop him meaning stay with big boy club or be the Man on the G League club. Either way I think this summer will give him time to gain some weight/strength and work on his craft and hopefully get his mind to slow down and just let the game come to him which is easier said then done. One thing from scouting him up to when he was drafted he is all about the game and will easily put in the work to get better each year can not ask more then that.

I will predict that bar us not getting a top 2 pick I believe Blake will take either being the starter or getting the majority of minutes at PG - He will still have shitty games but he will also have games where he will completely dominate all part of growth - Enjoy

[rascal]

You know I am still really high on Blake I think people forget he was drafted as a project meaning he had high potential but his current floor was low due to unrefined ball skills. To be honest I was shocked that he got so much playing time with the big club I thought for sure he was G Laague bound for at least his first year. But I guess Pop and company figured out he had the personality to handle failures and not let it impact his game that is a good sign that he doesn’t have that fear factor he definitely has the shooter attitude which bodes well for his future.

Going into next year it will be interesting to see what they want from him and how they going to develop him meaning stay with big boy club or be the Man on the G League club. Either way I think this summer will give him time to gain some weight/strength and work on his craft and hopefully get his mind to slow down and just let the game come to him which is easier said then done. One thing from scouting him up to when he was drafted he is all about the game and will easily put in the work to get better each year can not ask more then that.

I will predict that bar us not getting a top 2 pick I believe Blake will take either being the starter or getting the majority of minutes at PG - He will still have shitty games but he will also have games where he will completely dominate all part of growth - Enjoy

Blake is no where ready to be a stating pg. He was rated the worst player in the NBA last year. I don't think the Spurs should give up on him but he isn't ready to be a starter.

[JPB]

I’ll give you the TS% and the rim finishing, but the original post was about 3 point shooting, and even with the small sample size, he shoots 38.5%, and all the backpedaling in the world won’t change that.

Well yeah, statistically he shot that. But all the backpedaling in the world won't change that you can't really make anything out of it giving the small sample, both in attempts and games, as far as knowing if he's already a reliable 3PT shooter.

I can play only one NBA game in the season and go 1/1 on 3, for a 100% 3PT season percentage.

[BackHome]

This is the Summary from an article from the “Athletic”

SummaryYou’re drafting Wesley for what he could be, not what he is right now. It’s unlikely he’ll be able to come into the NBA next season and be a positive player, simply because of his shooting and efficiency or decision-making. But his ability to create a shot from nothing, his potential in isolation and his defense present such an intriguing combination of skills. On top of that, the flashy passing ability he showcases portends some real upside on the ball if teams must respect his shot at all three levels. This is essentially a boom or bust swing. If it works, Wesley has a chance to work out in a big way and become a legitimate starting guard in the NBA. There is also a real chance Wesley ends up not being much of anything if the shooting never comes around. There are signs he could shoot, but it’s going to take some work, and the touch indicators aren’t incredible. He’ll be relatively polarizing for NBA teams because of that, like many prospects in this class. — Vecenie

[Mr. Body]

This is the Summary from an article from the “Athletic”

SummaryYou’re drafting Wesley for what he could be, not what he is right now. It’s unlikely he’ll be able to come into the NBA next season and be a positive player, simply because of his shooting and efficiency or decision-making. But his ability to create a shot from nothing, his potential in isolation and his defense present such an intriguing combination of skills. On top of that, the flashy passing ability he showcases portends some real upside on the ball if teams must respect his shot at all three levels. This is essentially a boom or bust swing. If it works, Wesley has a chance to work out in a big way and become a legitimate starting guard in the NBA. There is also a real chance Wesley ends up not being much of anything if the shooting never comes around. There are signs he could shoot, but it’s going to take some work, and the touch indicators aren’t incredible. He’ll be relatively polarizing for NBA teams because of that, like many prospects in this class. — Vecenie

Good stuff, this seems pretty accurate.

I don't think Blake is that far away from at least a rotation player, a guy you want to keep working with. He's a good defender already. Needs some seasoning, but already has the quickness and activity to be a pest. He's a good spot-up shooter. And he's fast.

Those are good pieces to work with. Just being a good defender is a great start. He also seems to have a beneficial attitude. He doesn't get down and knows he has work to do.

What will make him is everything between the three-point line and the rim. Cut out those wild drives into trees. He's never getting over or around them. At the end of the year, it seemed like he was thinking way too much about just not getting blocked and he had no touch at the rim. He also needs to learn the mid-range. Slow the game down, realize he doesn't need to punch it through, because it's not going to work, and start seeing the game's options otherwise.

I think it will take a lot of work, getting floaters, stop-and-pop midranges, keeping his dribble and probing. He's on the right team and I think the staff is dedicated to bringing it out. To me he doesn't have a bad platform and he can do it.

[Ariel]

This is the Summary from an article from the “Athletic”

Summary

You’re drafting Wesley for what he could be, not what he is right now. It’s unlikely he’ll be able to come into the NBA next season and be a positive player, simply because of his shooting and efficiency or decision-making. But his ability to create a shot from nothing, his potential in isolation and his defense present such an intriguing combination of skills. On top of that, the flashy passing ability he showcases portends some real upside on the ball if teams must respect his shot at all three levels. This is essentially a boom or bust swing. If it works, Wesley has a chance to work out in a big way and become a legitimate starting guard in the NBA. There is also a real chance Wesley ends up not being much of anything if the shooting never comes around. There are signs he could shoot, but it’s going to take some work, and the touch indicators aren’t incredible. He’ll be relatively polarizing for NBA teams because of that, like many prospects in this class. — Vecenie
Yeah, basically what we all knew before the draft, and some of us wanted him still. I'll say this: he's even more raw than I expected. I knew he had trouble finishing at the rim, but jeez, he's just on another level. The physical tools are there, his shot needs work but isn't too bad, he seems coaching and resilient, he's a willing passer, he tries hard on defense... all those things warrant giving him a chance.
Also, last year's draft wasn't filled with home runs at the spot we picked him (25) or later. The only guy who's a significantly better player now is Nembhard who was taken at 31, but he's more than 3 years older than Wesley. Other than that, the rest of the board doesn't leave much room for regrets. I was ecstatic with our results that draft day, and I'm very happy right now with our choices still.

[ace3g]

https://twitter.com/DraftExpress/status/1649054895109181451

[offset formation]

https://twitter.com/DraftExpress/status/1649054895109181451

I posted this on another thread the yesterday. Give me Bilal if we don't get Wembanyama.

[JPB]

https://twitter.com/DraftExpress/status/1649054895109181451

Bilal is really fast with long strides on fast break. Would taking a flyer on him at 7 make sense? Probably not gonna happen but would the spurs trade down, I'd def consider making him one of the 2 picks.

[Ariel]

Bilal is really fast with long strides on fast break. Would taking a flyer on him at 7 make sense? Probably not gonna happen but would the spurs trade down, I'd def consider making him one of the 2 picks.
At 7? No way. You have at least Wemby, Scoot, Miller, Cam Whitmore, Taylor Hendricks, Jarace Walker, Anthony Black, Keyonte George, Gradey Dick, the Thompsons, plus many others... there's no evidence to support taking him in the lottery, much less on the top half of it. With that said, I think he's a fine prospect who's super young, has good size, explosive athlete, some nice moves, but he still has ways to go. I'd be fine taking a flyer on him in the 20s if we get a second pick there (say by trading up from 32/33, or landing a new pick using Charlotte's pick), but there are at least 10 players I have higher than him, easy. He's a gamble that could make sense if the price is low, but for reference we got Malaki at 20, Dejounte at 29, Derrick White at 29, Keldon at 29, Tre at 41... there's value to be had later on, and Coulibaly isn't a sure thing or a superstar project to warrant a super high investment.