*** Official Israel vs Hamas war #13783478343 thread ***

[koriwhat]

Fuck Hamas and burn in hell with your pedo prophet!

[ChumpDumper]

Ignorance to what?

Let's go back to where I see the devolution started.

Can you admit that your initial response to me in this thread where you wonder about Netanyahu's motives was innuendo that you led off with?I thought his support of Hamas was common knowledge at this point and intended no innuendo.

Clearly you did not know it, so you took it as innuendo.

I said I will adjust my statements to allow for your ignorance and assumptions in the future -- and I will because you have established this is a big deal to you. I think it's OK that you don't know things and can be educated by other posters here without going to war with those posters. This is my point of view.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I thought his support of Hamas was common knowledge at this point and intended no innuendo.

Clearly you did not know it, so you took it as innuendo.

I said I will adjust my statements to allow for your ignorance and assumptions in the future -- and I will because you have established this is a big deal to you. I think it's OK that you don't know things and can be educated by other posters here without going to war with those posters. This is my point of view.

That is another argument you just left off. My response that the last time you said it was that the reason why the PLO/Hamas policy is what it is was both not new to me nor the state of Israel so your attribution was diluted at best.

But that is the whole thing about innuendos you leave what you mean unstated. Youre just wondering. Thing is it is not your stated premise you are desperately handwaving at. No, it is Netanyahu's motives for doing so you are wondering about. You even laid out a FAFO scenario for him where Hamas is the pouncing lion. Read like most of the shitty stories around here.

[ChumpDumper]

That is another argument you just left off. My response that the last time you said it was that the reason why the PLO/Hamas policy is what it is was both not new to me nor the state of Israel so your attribution was diluted at best.

But that is the whole thing about innuendos you leave what you mean unstated. Youre just wondering. Thing is it is not your stated premise you are desperately handwaving at. No, it is Netanyahu's motives for doing so you are wondering about. You even laid out a FAFO scenario for him where Hamas is the pouncing lion. Read like most of the shitty stories around here.
I knew everything all along!

OK DMC.:lol

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I knew everything all along!

OK DMC.:lol


Okay so he was continuing the divide and conquer strategy. I thought you had a point in the broader conflict other than Netanyahu sucks which no one disagrees with.

Did you not understand what I meant by this original response from yesterday?

[ChumpDumper]

Did you not understand what I meant by this original response from yesterday?

Yes, you claimed you knew everything all along yesterday as well.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Yes, you claimed you knew everything all along yesterday as well.

I can admit that I did not know Netanyahu's specific policies but as I stated Israel's policy towards the two governments over palestine and the broader role of proxies is really old news.

I am still waiting for a point. You cannot do that though. You wrap them up in questions and innuendo. Then you say it is about me.

[ChumpDumper]

I can admit that I did not know Netanyahu's specific policies but as I stated Israel's policy towards the two governments over palestine and the broader role of proxies is really old news.

I am still waiting for a point. You cannot do that though. You wrap them up in questions and innuendo. Then you say it is about me. I posted two articles spelling out what was my point and you said you already knew but didn't really know. Now you really, really know what my point was and you're still asking me what my point was.

I can only conclude U mad.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I posted two articles spelling out what was my point and you said you already knew but didn't really know. Now you really, really know what my point was and you're still asking me what my point was.

I can only conclude U mad.

:lol you posted two articles that made your point for you.

[ChumpDumper]

:lol you posted two articles that made your point for you.Posting sources is quite common here.

And you claim you knew that point before and after I posted them.

What do you claim to not know now?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

And you claim you knew that point before and after I posted them.

What do you claim to not know now?

I'm still waiting for your point. Not the article's point and I already told you the point that I got from them.

I have to say you are the most passive aggressive person I have encountered hiding behind your questions, innuendo, and articles.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

:lol he's probably finally reading the articles.

[ChumpDumper]

I'm still waiting for your point. Not the article's point and I already told you the point that I got from them.

I have to say you are the most passive aggressive person I have encountered hiding behind your questions, innuendo, and articles.I have to say you are making no real sense and are just trying to insult me to save face just like DMC would do.

I have no idea why you are asking me what my point is when you insist you knew my point all along.

[hater]

JN6Rykw2364

[ChumpDumper]

:lol he's probably finally reading the articles.

To whom are you talking?

Your followers?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I have to say you are making no real sense and are just trying to insult me to save face just like DMC would do.

I have no idea why you are asking me what my point is when you insist you knew my point all along.

And so here we are full circle. As I stated before, you led off with an innuendo and have not explained it very well so I was wondering if you were ever going to come around to a point. If you cannot come up with a point. Your inability to do so is not an insult from me to you. You just have no point.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

To whom are you talking?

Your followers?

Our audience.

[ChumpDumper]

And so here we are full circle. As I stated before, you led off with an innuendo and have not explained it very well so I was wondering if you were ever going to come around to a point. If you cannot come up with a point. Your inability to do so is not an insult from me to you. You just have no point.As you stated before, you claimed you knew my point all along. Your inability to accept your own claim of knowing my point is not an insult from me to you. You just make no sense whatsoever.

[ChumpDumper]

Our audience.

No one is going to care to read more than a couple posts into this exchange.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

As you stated before, you claimed you knew my point all along. Your inability to accept your own claim of knowing my point is not an insult from me to you. You just make no sense whatsoever.

I tell you that I am waiting for you to make your point and then you respond with this.

At this point the only point you have made is that you knew something that I did not and your repetitive insistence on it. That is just sad.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

As you stated before, you claimed you knew my point all along. Your inability to accept your own claim of knowing my point is not an insult from me to you. You just make no sense whatsoever.

And wait a second. Before you said that you did not use an innuendo. Do you stand by that statement still?

[ChumpDumper]

I tell you that I am waiting for you to make your point and then you respond with this.

At this point the only point you have made is that you knew something that I did not and your repetitive insistence on it. That is just sad.But you said you already knew my point about Netanyahu all along -- you can't retcon my point to make it about yourself now. That is just sad.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

But you said you already knew my point about Netanyahu all along -- you can't retcon my point to make it about yourself now. That is just sad.

What I said was, "so he continued with the divide in conquer strategy. Do you have a point other than Netanyahu sucks?"

Read my sig and think about it.

[ChumpDumper]

And wait a second. Before you said that you did not use an innuendo. Do you stand by that statement still?I said it was not intended as innuendo because I figured his support for Hamas was common knowledge. You said you already had that knowledge all along -- so it really was common knowledge.:tu

[ChumpDumper]

What I said was, "so he continued with the divide in conquer strategy. Do you have a point other than Netanyahu sucks?"
Yes, we were talking about Netanyahu, not you. So don't make it about yourself.

Read my sig and think about it.
I have sigs turned off and nothing you say is really worth turning them back on.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I said it was not intended as innuendo because I figured his support for Hamas was common knowledge. You said you already had that knowledge all along -- so it really was common knowledge.:tu

So you are saying you were wondering if Netanyahu legitimized Hamas even though it was common knowledge that it happened.

That is some serious intentional ignorance. Thank you for that.

Chumps points he is confident enough to share:

He wonders why Netanyahu supported Hamas?
Netanyahu FAFO and had what was coming.
He knows something I do not and I cannot admit it.
The premise of an innuendo is what it alludes to.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Yes, we were talking about Netanyahu, not you. So don't make it about yourself.

I have sigs turned off and nothing you say is really worth turning them back on.

It's cool we have our audience.

And I am done. When we came full circle I should have bailed. Ciao, chumpy.

[ChumpDumper]

So you are saying you were wondering if Netanyahu legitimized Hamas even though it was common knowledge that it happened.

That is some serious intentional ignorance. Thank you for that.

Chumps points he is confident enough to share:

He wonders why Netanyahu supported Hamas?
Netanyahu FAFO and had what was coming.
He knows something I do not and I cannot admit it.
The premise of an innuendo is what it alludes to.There was only one point.

You said you already knew that one point after you said you didn't and before you said you didn't again.

I am no longer going to keep track of your flip-flopping. Like your unread sig, it just doesn't matter.

[ChumpDumper]

It's cool we have our audience.

And I am done. When we came full circle I should have bailed. Ciao, chumpy.You should never have started but such is the nature of your grudge. It compels you.

[Ef-man]

https://x.com/visegrad24/status/1732893225520685384

[Thread]

https://x.com/visegrad24/status/1732893225520685384

They won the moment they went first, sweetheart.

I know, I know, The Holocaust.

[hater]

Imagine rooting for the guys doing the Genocide :lmao :lmao :rollin

[ChumpDumper]

Imagine rooting for the guys doing the Genocide :lmao :lmao :rollin

:lol you do that regularly

[Thread]

:lol you do that regularly

You did it first, Dumper.

[hater]

You did it first, Dumper.

:lmao

Truthen nukem :lol

[ChumpDumper]

:lmao

Truthen nukem :lol

Actually you were first, hater.

It's what you do. :lol

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Actually you were first, hater.

It's what you do. :lol

:lol OCD boy wants to claim others are compelled in their behavior.

[Thread]

:lol OCD boy wants to claim others are compelled in their behavior.

Uh, oh, Lumps & Dumps about to get to sittin' in the tree again.

GD it!!!

[Winehole23]

You should never have started but such is the nature of your grudge. It compels you.Fuzzy personalizes everything. That's the compulsion, imo. If you disagree with him it's because you're ignorant, personally flawed or misunderstood the issue.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Fuzzy personalizes everything. That's the compulsion, imo. If you disagree with him it's because you're ignorant, personally flawed or misunderstood the issue.

No, I don't. I disagreed with you about your stat and did no such thing.

He didn't disagree with anything I wrote. He was white knighting for you.

[hater]

:lol OCD boy wants to claim others are compelled in their behavior.

:lol

[hater]

Fuzzy personalizes everything. That's the compulsion, imo. If you disagree with him it's because you're ignorant, personally flawed or misunderstood the issue.

:lmao

[hater]

Hebrew newspaper "Yedioth Ahronoth" revealed Saturday that more than 5,000 soldiers from the Israeli Occupation Forces (IOF) have been injured since October 7, with around 2,000 soldiers being officially recognized as disabled by the IOF.


Ce la vi

[FuzzyLumpkins]

What's different about past situations is the Sunni population is doing nothing. Even a few years ago, we would have seen large uprisings like the Muslim Brotherhood would do in years past.

It will be interesting to see what happens in the power vacuum.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3qEl9TR4xU

[Tyronn Lue]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3qEl9TR4xU
They were COVID cool before COVID was cool.

[Winehole23]

No, I don't. I disagreed with you about your stat and did no such thing.

He didn't disagree with anything I wrote. He was white knighting for you.Hmm, can't say I agree with either statement. We don't see eye to eye on this, and that's ok.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Hmm, can't say I agree with either statement. We don't see eye to eye on this, and that's ok.

In what way have I made it personal between us in any conversation, wine, other than to say that I respect you?

[Winehole23]

In what way have I made it personal between us in any conversation, wine, other than to say that I respect you?Pattern of posting tells, but in this thread you called a reposted newspaper article my conspiracy theory, and you said I was being misleading about Gaza by pointing out how large proportional deaths/damage would be in the US. You personalize stuff on the reg, maybe that's just a rhetorical tic, I don't know.

[Winehole23]

Attacking people rather than arguments is the tell, not there's anything wrong with that, disparagement and ridicule are common rhetorical tropes because they work.

[Winehole23]

Biden's argument that total support for Israel's total war on Gaza is needed to break the cycle of violence and prevent future war is absurd on its face.

This war may already be a strategic loss for Israel.


Like the many other bombing campaigns before it, this one wreaks havoc on the civilian population without doing much to achieve the stated goals of the government doing the bombing. Pape wrote a recent article for Foreign Affairs in which he spelled out the failure of the Israeli bombing campaign:

Whatever the ultimate goal, Israel’s collective devastation of Gaza raises deep moral problems. But even judged purely in strategic terms, Israel’s approach is doomed to failure—and indeed, it is already failing.

Like other policies of collective punishment, bombing the civilian population typically fails to weaken the regime or group that the policy is supposed to be targeting. Instead of turning the population against the regime or group, it naturally intensifies the population’s hostility to those responsible for the bombing. To the extent that bombing has an effect on the population’s political views, it will tend to drive them into the arms of hardliners. Even if some significant percentage of Hamas fighters are killed in this war, the IDF has been acting as the lead recruiter for militant groups with its brutal and criminal bombing campaignhttps://daniellarison.substack.com/p/the-devastation-of-gaza

[Winehole23]

It's also a strategic loss for the US and "rules-based order" it supports. By backing Israel, we've nuked any credibility we may have had regarding rules/values

Arms transfers > meek lip service to helping civilians.

[Thread]

Biden's argument that total support for Israel's total war on Gaza is needed to break the cycle of violence and prevent future war is absurd on its face.

This war may already be a strategic loss for Israel.

https://daniellarison.substack.com/p/the-devastation-of-gaza

You'll never catch a news source in America stating such: not CNN, MSNBC, nor FOX for that matter. Nary a one. Nary.

There's Nobel Peace Prizes comin' and the timing is ultra important, sassafras.

[Winehole23]

The current iteration of war in Gaza is deadlier to civilians than WWII.

In the first three weeks of the current operation, Swords of Iron, the civilian proportion of total deaths rose to 61%, in what Levy described as “unprecedented killing”. The ratio is significantly higher than the civilian toll in all the conflicts around the world during the 20th century, in which civilians accounted for about half the dead.

“The broad conclusion is that extensive killing of civilians not only contributes nothing to Israel’s security, but that it also contains the foundations for further undermining it,” Levy concluded. “The Gazans who will emerge from the ruins of their homes and the loss of their families will seek revenge that no security arrangements will be able to withstand.”https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/09/civilian-toll-israeli-airstrikes-gaza-unprecedented-killing-study

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Pattern of posting tells, but in this thread you called a reposted newspaper article my conspiracy theory, and you said I was being misleading about Gaza by pointing out how large proportional deaths/damage would be in the US. You personalize stuff on the reg, maybe that's just a rhetorical tic, I don't know.

I never said that you had a conspiracy theory. I said that the numbers you were adjusted gratuitously taking advantage of the fact that tiny nature of Gaza. I was speaking to your argument not you. I did say that type of argument was misleading. That is not a characterization of you, sorry.

I could go into the why of you make those arguments but I don't because I don't make it personal.

At least you take confrontation better than Chump does.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Attacking people rather than arguments is the tell, not there's anything wrong with that, disparagement and ridicule are common rhetorical tropes because they work.

I am not going to deny that I do that sometimes. But I really think you need to do some self reflection in your position on this and what you are doing here. You are definitely casting character aspersions my way. I am still not coming back at you.

[ChumpDumper]

:lmao

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Enter White Knight, stage left:

[ChumpDumper]

:rollin

[Ef-man]

https://x.com/Tendar/status/1733565690877980834

[FrostKing]

Can't start a War and then cry CeaseFire weeks later

Palestinians argue this is an ongoing 75 year War. How does one negotiate or live peacefully alongside such mindset?

[Winehole23]

I am not going to deny that I do that sometimes. But I really think you need to do some self reflection in your position on this and what you are doing here. You are definitely casting character aspersions my way. I am still not coming back at you.I don't think it's casting aspersions to observe that you tend to personalize things to the exclusion of topical conversation. Your subthread with CD is the obvious example here, but I've seen you do this with maybe half a dozen other posters on this board in other contexts FWIW.

[diego]

Why didn't it happen? I think in large part because of the adversarial nature of the neighboring Sunni states. As I have pointed out, in the past 70 years SA, Egypt, Syria, and Jordan would be talking about massing troops and escalating the conflict.

As it stands now they don't give a fuck and Hamas proxies are on the far side of Mesopotamia. They have been these since the 1980s. Same time as the Houthis and Hezbollah.

Gaza is a strip of land like 50 miles long. I am not saying ship them out to another region entirely just out of the war zone about the size of the San Antonio city limits.

Israel and Hamas seem set to battle building to building until it is over. Sunnis ain't doing shit. Deal with the world as it is.

your post doesnt make much sense, theres nothing practical to be taken from it. If something hasnt happened for 70 years, regardless of the reason, it would be stupid for palestinians to make plans assuming that change (and as we have seen in this latest episode, a decision that is not theirs to make anyway). You continued to gloss right over that millions of palestinans have already left and that dynamic is at the heart of the conflict.
then you say the sunni neighbors have changed their policy-though not in any way that would favor the palestinians- then you say seem to agree that hamas is kind of irrelevant because the state sponsors and israeli antagonists continue to exist anyway as they always have. so somethings changed, somethings didnt, you know what else hasnt changed? that palestinians are scattered around the world, their home country reduced to a tiny area and their rights severely restricted and, the occasional genocidal collective punishment bombing campaign.

So to sum up, at the end of this campaign israel will still have enemies around them, and palestinians will continue to live in apartheid hating their oppressors. but sure in the grand scheme of things 7000 children bombed to death in a month is NBD amirite? gaza is tiny, why cant they just climb the fences and wait it out on the other side?:rolleyes

[Tyronn Lue]

Biden's argument that total support for Israel's total war on Gaza is needed to break the cycle of violence and prevent future war is absurd on its face.

This war may already be a strategic loss for Israel.

https://daniellarison.substack.com/p/the-devastation-of-gaza

There's no other side who wins though.

[Winehole23]

There's no other side who wins though.If Israel removes all the people of Gaza and kills alĺ the Khamas (unlikely, imo) that won't be a win. Israel will be surrounded by countries that hate them even more, and will still have to deal with the more populous West Bank which, to put it mildly, will not be more favorably inclined to them now.

Lose-lose is a likely possibility.

Israel and the US are sowing more generational grudges Neither will be safer or have more friends no matter what happens.

[Winehole23]

There's no rational or practical limit to how much worse things can get for everyone short of complete annihilation.

[FrostKing]

The West is flexing. Protected Ukraine and now Israel. And no one outside the immediate sphere of conflict stood up. I haven't seen Europeans this united in a long time. On the other hand Muslims are also uniting.

But their perspective is flawed. They live in the West and blame us for all their problems. USA & Russia have both raged War there even recently and sooner than later so will China. We can't allow our communities to be hostage to foreign drama. There will always be an excuse.

[Winehole23]

Starvation, dirty water and disease. More collective punishment.

https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-war-southern-gaza-humanitarian-conditions-4da8410ab2e849adef8aff18c79b310c

[Winehole23]

The West is flexing. Protected Ukraine and now Israel. And no one outside the immediate sphere of conflict stood up. I haven't seen Europeans this united in a long time. On the other hand Muslims are also uniting.

But their perspective is flawed. They live in the West and blame us for all their problems. USA & Russia have both raged War there even recently and sooner than later so will China. We can't allow our communities to be hostage to foreign drama. There will always be an excuse.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GA1P_cub0AAu3km?format=jpg&name=small

[FuzzyLumpkins]

your post doesnt make much sense, theres nothing practical to be taken from it. If something hasnt happened for 70 years, regardless of the reason, it would be stupid for palestinians to make plans assuming that change (and as we have seen in this latest episode, a decision that is not theirs to make anyway). You continued to gloss right over that millions of palestinans have already left and that dynamic is at the heart of the conflict.
then you say the sunni neighbors have changed their policy-though not in any way that would favor the palestinians- then you say seem to agree that hamas is kind of irrelevant because the state sponsors and israeli antagonists continue to exist anyway as they always have. so somethings changed, somethings didnt, you know what else hasnt changed? that palestinians are scattered around the world, their home country reduced to a tiny area and their rights severely restricted and, the occasional genocidal collective punishment bombing campaign.

So to sum up, at the end of this campaign israel will still have enemies around them, and palestinians will continue to live in apartheid hating their oppressors. but sure in the grand scheme of things 7000 children bombed to death in a month is NBD amirite? gaza is tiny, why cant they just climb the fences and wait it out on the other side?:rolleyes

Where is the Muslim Brotherhood and the Army of Islam? All the Sunni Jihaidis? Where is the denunciation and troop buildup from Egypt, Jordan, Syria, and Saudi Arabia? That is how it is different.

The significance of Gaza being tiny is in how normalizing it to non tiny nations was just gratuitous number inflation. Nice strawman though.

I never said that it was okay. You are like wine in that you cannot even mention Hamas in your analysis outside of discounting them. Hamas is culpable too and needs to go.

PS Hamas is a Iranian proxy. Is Iran a Sunni state?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

There's no rational or practical limit to how much worse things can get for everyone short of complete annihilation.

So then there is a practical and rational limit. Can you see anything good coming out of this?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I don't think it's casting aspersions to observe that you tend to personalize things to the exclusion of topical conversation. Your subthread with CD is the obvious example here, but I've seen you do this with maybe half a dozen other posters on this board in other contexts FWIW.

Given your standard is making things personal you most certainly are not practicing what you preach.

Your argument basically boils down to I should not be listened to because all I do is personalize things. I get that you have to do things the 'bless your heart' way but you are not as inscrutable as you would hope.

Prima facie it is trash. Your blanket statement makes it easy.

[ChumpDumper]

:lol

[FuzzyLumpkins]

The White Knight circles the fray, laughing to try and work up the courage to engage. His questions lay unasked for fear of past interactions.

[Thread]

Damn, the trees ain't occupied by 2 of ya's as much as they used to be.

tee, hee.

[diego]

Where is the Muslim Brotherhood and the Army of Islam? All the Sunni Jihaidis? Where is the denunciation and troop buildup from Egypt, Jordan, Syria, and Saudi Arabia? That is how it is different.

The significance of Gaza being tiny is in how normalizing it to non tiny nations was just gratuitous number inflation. Nice strawman though.

I never said that it was okay. You are like wine in that you cannot even mention Hamas in your analysis outside of discounting them. Hamas is culpable too and needs to go.

PS Hamas is a Iranian proxy. Is Iran a Sunni state?

I'm sorry, all I hear is you trying to act important because you understand international politics. I'm not disputing shia-sunni dynamics or the fact that Hamas is an Iranian shia proxy.

My issue is that we were talking about the plight of the Palestinian people and your "solution" for them was to leave, wait it out, come back and as I explained that is neither their decision nor their desire, pointing at Hamas and the muslim brotherhood doesn't change their reality in the slightest, nor Israel's for that matter. Justifying this bombing campaign with "Hamas bad" / "Gaza is tiny" doesn't even help to address Israel's safety in either the short term or the long term. It seems your only goal is to sound like you know a lot.. and hey maybe you do know more than most, but you are still incredibly naive if you really think this problem will be solved by Israel committing war crimes and Palestinians sitting out the bombings on the other side of the border fence so that only Hamas gets bombed to shit. The retarded "just move out if you don't want to be collateral" argument is retarded regardless of when/where it is being used

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I'm sorry, all I hear is you trying to act important because you understand international politics. I'm not disputing shia-sunni dynamics or the fact that Hamas is an Iranian shia proxy.

My issue is that we were talking about the plight of the Palestinian people and your "solution" for them was to leave, wait it out, come back and as I explained that is neither their decision nor their desire, pointing at Hamas and the muslim brotherhood doesn't change their reality in the slightest, nor Israel's for that matter. Justifying this bombing campaign with "Hamas bad" / "Gaza is tiny" doesn't even help to address Israel's safety in either the short term or the long term. It seems your only goal is to sound like you know a lot.. and hey maybe you do know more than most, but you are still incredibly naive if you really think this problem will be solved by Israel committing war crimes and Palestinians sitting out the bombings on the other side of the border fence so that only Hamas gets bombed to shit. The retarded "just move out if you don't want to be collateral" argument is retarded regardless of when/where it is being used

Solution? I am not naive enough to think there is way to fix it all. I am trying to get innocent refugees out of a war zone.

As for war crimes, do you have any proof that Israel is targeting civilians or anything that is a war crime?

As for collateral damage, you once again never mention Hamas or their role in this. It is a huge blinder. I can easily provide proof of their war crimes. For example, they use innocents as human shields and prevent people from leaving areas.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Additionally, in past conflicts, the Muslim Brotherhood and Jahidi want be right beside Hamas. this was the reality in the last intifada.

They aren't there. The 'risk' to Israel's security used to be the Sunni states. Now they work with Israel to remove Iranian proxies.

It's funny you try to make it personal about how I am 'trying to talk smart' essentially. You don't really posit much at all.

[Tyronn Lue]

If Israel removes all the people of Gaza and kills alĺ the Khamas (unlikely, imo) that won't be a win. Israel will be surrounded by countries that hate them even more, and will still have to deal with the more populous West Bank which, to put it mildly, will not be more favorably inclined to them now.

Lose-lose is a likely possibility.

Israel and the US are sowing more generational grudges Neither will be safer or have more friends no matter what happens.
You cannot kill the ideology of Hamas and Israel cannot just do nothing after that incident. Hamas knew this, but maybe didn't expect that level of success and thus that level of reckoning.

[diego]

Solution? I am not naive enough to think there is way to fix it all. I am trying to get innocent refugees out of a war zone.

As for war crimes, do you have any proof that Israel is targeting civilians or anything that is a war crime?

As for collateral damage, you once again never mention Hamas or their role in this. It is a huge blinder. I can easily provide proof of their war crimes. For example, they use innocents as human shields and prevent people from leaving areas.

do you know what google is? United Nations, Amnesty International, even israeli press and politicians say it (might come as another shock that like hamas doesnt represent all palestinians, IDF doesnt represent all israelis)

Im not focusing on Hamas because they dont represent all palestinians, certainly not civilians, children, you know, the ones there are thousands of which dying, the human shields you so callously justify killing because its Hamas fault for hiding behind them.... Because Israel has to do something even if that something is counterproductive, immoral, and ultimately unrelated to the actual cause of the attack.. just like the US after 911, that was a good analogy by you

[CosmicCowboy]

Is killing "civilians" in a war only a problem when Israel does it?

[Winehole23]

Is killing "civilians" in a war only a problem when Israel does it?absolutely not. why do you ask?

[CosmicCowboy]

absolutely not. why do you ask?

Where Is the moral outrage over firebombing Dresden, nuking Hiroshima and Nagasaki, napalming villages in Vietnam, indiscriminate drone strikes in Afghanistan etc.?

[Winehole23]

Where Is the moral outrage over firebombing Dresden, nuking Hiroshima and Nagasaki, napalming villages in Vietnam, indiscriminate drone strikes in Afghanistan etc.?I guess you didn't read "The Wings of Judgment" and were asleep during the Vietnam War. There was plenty of outrage. There has been plenty of moralizing.

Construing Hiroshima and Nagasaki as war crimes is a plausible and already out there take too.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

do you know what google is? United Nations, Amnesty International, even israeli press and politicians say it (might come as another shock that like hamas doesnt represent all palestinians, IDF doesnt represent all israelis)

Im not focusing on Hamas because they dont represent all palestinians, certainly not civilians, children, you know, the ones there are thousands of which dying, the human shields you so callously justify killing because its Hamas fault for hiding behind them.... Because Israel has to do something even if that something is counterproductive, immoral, and ultimately unrelated to the actual cause of the attack.. just like the US after 911, that was a good analogy by you

So you have nothing but want me to Google to prove your assertion.

Of course they do not represent them. Hamas prevents them from leaving the warzone and uses them as human shields. This is not a war against the Palestinians. It is a war against Hamas.

[Winehole23]

You're very close to getting it, CC

[ChumpDumper]

Is killing "civilians" in a war only a problem when Israel does it?

You don't think children are civilians? McVeighesque.

[Thread]

You don't think children are civilians? McVeighesque.

McVeigh was living proof they was.

[Winehole23]

In passing, there was definitely moral outrage over civilian deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan, bitching about wanton tactics and noncombatant deaths in war isn't some novelty that people just now seized on to bash Israel.

[CosmicCowboy]

In passing, there was definitely moral outrage over civilian deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan, bitching about wanton tactics and noncombatant deaths in war isn't some novelty that people just now seized on to bash Israel.

How do you suggest eliminating Hamas without collateral damage?

[CosmicCowboy]

I guess you didn't read "The Wings of Judgment" and were asleep during the Vietnam War. There was plenty of outrage. There has been plenty of moralizing.

Construing Hiroshima and Nagasaki as war crimes is a plausible and already out there take too.

Most of the Vietnam outrage was against the draft and a pointless war, not the indiscriminate killing of yellow people.

[Thread]

I'm sorry, all I hear is you trying to act important because you understand international politics. I'm not disputing shia-sunni dynamics or the fact that Hamas is an Iranian shia proxy.

My issue is that we were talking about the plight of the Palestinian people and your "solution" for them was to leave, wait it out, come back and as I explained that is neither their decision nor their desire, pointing at Hamas and the muslim brotherhood doesn't change their reality in the slightest, nor Israel's for that matter. Justifying this bombing campaign with "Hamas bad" / "Gaza is tiny" doesn't even help to address Israel's safety in either the short term or the long term. It seems your only goal is to sound like you know a lot.. and hey maybe you do know more than most, but you are still incredibly naive if you really think this problem will be solved by Israel committing war crimes and Palestinians sitting out the bombings on the other side of the border fence so that only Hamas gets bombed to shit. The retarded "just move out if you don't want to be collateral" argument is retarded regardless of when/where it is being used

As long as the Jews & Yahoo have the US State Dept, and CNN in their corner {the solve} is attained. State Dept., & CNN ain't goin' nowhere.

[Thread]

How do you suggest eliminating Hamas without collateral damage?

As long as the Jews & Yahoo have the US State Dept, and CNN in their corner {eliminating Hamas without collateral damage} is fully attainable. The State Dept., will see to it & CNN, et al will block said collateral damage...it'll be like it never happened. Ace-in-the-hole Nobel will be the kosher cherry on top.

It'll be a good thing.

[Thread]

Most of the Vietnam outrage was against the draft and a pointless war, not the indiscriminate killing of yellow people.

Not even a quarter century after "indiscriminate killing of yellow people" had been presented not once, but...Truman:::"Again."

[CosmicCowboy]

You don't think children are civilians? McVeighesque.

Your comment made absolutely no sense as usual.

[ChumpDumper]

Your comment made absolutely no sense as usual.

You fail to realize what your POV really means as usual.

[CosmicCowboy]

You fail to realize what your POV really means as usual.

Tell me Nostadamus, what does it mean?

[diego]

So you have nothing but want me to Google to prove your assertion.

Of course they do not represent them. Hamas prevents them from leaving the warzone and uses them as human shields. This is not a war against the Palestinians. It is a war against Hamas.

This is current events and Israel has been called out repeatedly on the matter, upstream WH and I have been posting links, I'm not going to hold your hand. If you don't know about the multiple documented cases of targeting civilians, journalists, doctors etc I'm more inclined to believe you wilfully ignore them.

And it's not just Hamas preventing them from leaving the warzone, they didn't build the fence around gaza

[ChumpDumper]

Tell me Nostadamus, what does it mean?

Casual dehumanization.

[CosmicCowboy]

Casual dehumanization.

Whan has war ever been humanized? At least we don't make the losers slaves anymore.

[diego]

Where Is the moral outrage over firebombing Dresden, nuking Hiroshima and Nagasaki, napalming villages in Vietnam, indiscriminate drone strikes in Afghanistan etc.?

People have been and continue to be outraged, maybe you haven't paid attention.

Re: how to eliminate Hamas without collateral, how about a two state solution and taking the real threats head on instead of punishing children? Or do you really think flattening Gaza and killing every single Palestinian will make Iran et al just say"welp we lost so much for that"

[Thread]

Whan has war ever been humanized? At least we don't make the losers slaves anymore.

Putin seems to have humanized it a measure. Stalin is rolling over in his grave watching this. The last time the Nazi's tried this Stalin directed any Russian soldier in the Battle of Stalingrad to perform open heart surgery on said Nazi's///on-the-spot.

[ChumpDumper]

Whan has war ever been humanized? At least we don't make the losers slaves anymore.War is not the only instance for which you do this.

[ChumpDumper]

People have been and continue to be outraged, maybe you haven't paid attention.

Re: how to eliminate Hamas without collateral, how about a two state solution and taking the real threats head on instead of punishing children? Or do you really think flattening Gaza and killing every single Palestinian will make Iran et al just say"welp we lost so much for that"

Dude lives in a bubble.

[Winehole23]

Most of the Vietnam outrage was against the draft and a pointless war, not the indiscriminate killing of yellow people.I guess you don't remember My Lai either. As a kid I heard plenty about US atrocities, I don't agree with your take that all people cared about was the draft.

[Winehole23]

How do you suggest eliminating Hamas without collateral damage?I don't

Nice goalpost move with a strawman kicker.

:tu

[Tyronn Lue]

People have been and continue to be outraged, maybe you haven't paid attention.

Re: how to eliminate Hamas without collateral, how about a two state solution and taking the real threats head on instead of punishing children? Or do you really think flattening Gaza and killing every single Palestinian will make Iran et al just say"welp we lost so much for that"
The Palestinian side has never agreed to a two state solution. They want to totally remove the Jews.

[ChumpDumper]

The Palestinian side has never agreed to a two state solution. They want to totally remove the Jews.Well, at least the Hamas faction -- which conservative Israel enjoyed before the face-eating leopard ate its face.

[Winehole23]

Few have mentioned the deliberate starvation of 2m people, I guess that's not so easily covered by the collateral damage rationale

[FrostKing]

Where Is the moral outrage over firebombing Dresden, nuking Hiroshima and Nagasaki, napalming villages in Vietnam, indiscriminate drone strikes in Afghanistan etc.?
Dresden was brutal. I'll give the Soviets credit for marching West door to door seeking revenge. It requires strong conviction to do that. Notice Russia isn't @ Ukraine and Israel isn't now.

WW2 on the Eastern Front is last time we saw equal strength & conviction fighting over rooms.

[FrostKing]

I don't think it's casting aspersions to observe that you tend to personalize things to the exclusion of topical conversation. Your subthread with CD is the obvious example here, but I've seen you do this with maybe half a dozen other posters on this board in other contexts FWIW.
Winey is correct. Fuzzy you do this. Sidetrack onto dissecting why the individual has a specific perspective. But you stay on topic unlike our Chump whom just posts about us :lol

[Winehole23]

Well, at least the Hamas faction -- which conservative Israel enjoyed before the face-eating leopard ate its face.Deeper dive in the NYT today. Suitcases full of cash and a misguided containment strategy that likely assisted Hamas in the Oct 7th attack on Israel.


“The Palestinian Authority is a burden,” he said. “Hamas is an asset.”https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/10/world/middleeast/israel-qatar-money-prop-up-hamas.html?unlocked_article_code=1.E00.R4w1.E2h5HW oWhzyR&smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare

[Thread]

Few have mentioned the deliberate starvation of 2m people, I guess that's not so easily covered by the collateral damage rationale

...& CNN. But they're running just as fast as they can.

[Thread]

Deeper dive in the NYT today. Suitcases full of cash and a misguided containment strategy that likely assisted Hamas in the Oct 7th attack on Israel.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/10/world/middleeast/israel-qatar-money-prop-up-hamas.html?unlocked_article_code=1.E00.R4w1.E2h5HW oWhzyR&smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare

...you may as well try and catch the wind as to ID the rat, bless their heart.

[ChumpDumper]

Deeper dive in the NYT today. Suitcases full of cash and a misguided containment strategy that likely assisted Hamas in the Oct 7th attack on Israel.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/10/world/middleeast/israel-qatar-money-prop-up-hamas.html?unlocked_article_code=1.E00.R4w1.E2h5HW oWhzyR&smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare

bUT dO yOu hAve A pOInT?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

This is current events and Israel has been called out repeatedly on the matter, upstream WH and I have been posting links, I'm not going to hold your hand. If you don't know about the multiple documented cases of targeting civilians, journalists, doctors etc I'm more inclined to believe you wilfully ignore them.

And it's not just Hamas preventing them from leaving the warzone, they didn't build the fence around gaza

I know about civilians getting hit. I do not not know about IDF targeting them.

One is a war crime and the other is not.

And sure the Israeli's built a fence. Their Sunni neighbors built bigger ones.

But hey you guys can virtue signal and think that it will make a single difference to one of those refugees. Their Sunni neighbors are not going to let them in. Hamas will keep them around their troop emplacements.

No charge will be brought in the ICC. IDF will continue until all Hamas emplacements are eliminated and hopefully whoever is put in charge won't embezzle all the aid to the Palestinian people.

But hey at least you guys get to feel you are better than random internet people.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Winey is correct. Fuzzy you do this. Sidetrack onto dissecting why the individual has a specific perspective. But you stay on topic unlike our Chump whom just posts about us :lol

I already admitted I do that sometimes. I will come after you nonstop too, peaches.

What I do not do is do that all the time to everyone.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Deeper dive in the NYT today. Suitcases full of cash and a misguided containment strategy that likely assisted Hamas in the Oct 7th attack on Israel.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/10/world/middleeast/israel-qatar-money-prop-up-hamas.html?unlocked_article_code=1.E00.R4w1.E2h5HW oWhzyR&smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare

You guys just going to gloss over the reports about Hamas misrepresenting themselves to the world in the years leading up to the attack?

The dynamic is discussed in the video I poosted earlier. Would you like time stamps? Or you guys just want to pretend that Hamas is consistent in it's actions?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

bUT dO yOu hAve A pOInT?

He was able to articulate it. You never did. I already responded to the argument. That is likely why you never wanted to articulate in situ.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Few have mentioned the deliberate starvation of 2m people, I guess that's not so easily covered by the collateral damage rationale

This was the argument before Egypt allowed aid through. As with all aid that has been going to Palestinians since Hamas has been in power: getting it to the people in need without it being embezzled is the issue.

[FrostKing]

I already admitted I do that sometimes. I will come after you nonstop too, peaches.

What I do not do is do that all the time to everyone.
But I know or care little bout you. You aren't too one sided overall I enjoy reading your takes.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

But I know or care little bout you. You aren't too one sided overall I enjoy reading your takes.

What one side do you think I have?

[FrostKing]

What one side do you think I have?
I like that you aren't predictable.

I personally like everyone here. Everyone has a fresh take.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I like that you aren't predictable.

I personally like everyone here. Everyone has a fresh take.

Oh, I am predictable. Just not along party lines.

[FrostKing]

Ukraine & Israel

Who had this on their bingo card. One should empathize with both sides. Ultimately we are West. Imo

[FrostKing]

Oh, I am predictable. Just not along party lines.
Honestly im tired of the liberal dancing. It will always be my backbone but we aren't the the smartest, best looking, most open. Europeans just want our traditions and rituals. Nice guy is gone

[FrostKing]

.

[FrostKing]

We don't have to be the best. We just have to be US

[CosmicCowboy]

This was the argument before Egypt allowed aid through. As with all aid that has been going to Palestinians since Hamas has been in power: getting it to the people in need without it being embezzled is the issue.

just wait until they turn rebuilding Gaza over to the Palestinian Authority....They will make Arafat look like and amateur grifter.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

just wait until they turn rebuilding Gaza over to the Palestinian Authority....They will make Arafat look like and amateur grifter.

It is possible that with Sunni nations and Israel still playing nice, the power vacuum will be filled with something with reasonable oversight so that schools, sewers, powerplants, etc. will be built.

[FrostKing]

I don't see how Hamas can continue as political party. In theory sure prove the West wrong but it's just a matter of time. Even false flag.

They tarnished their reputation. I want Hamas out.

[Winehole23]

just wait until they turn rebuilding Gaza over to the Palestinian Authority....They will make Arafat look like and amateur grifter.The only person talking about that is Joe Biden, afaik.

[CosmicCowboy]

I don't see how Hamas can continue as political party. In theory sure prove the West wrong but it's just a matter of time. Even false flag.

They tarnished their reputation. I want Hamas out.

I think it's the other way around. I think this weakened the Palestinian Authority who has always tried to play nice with Israel. Hamas is a political movement...not just a few radicals. It's like all these other fanatical religious based organizations...kill one leader and two more fill the void. After this I certainly don't see the bulk of the Palestinians wanting to play nice with Israel.

[Winehole23]

You guys just going to gloss over the reports about Hamas misrepresenting themselves to the world in the years leading up to the attack?

The dynamic is discussed in the video I poosted earlier. Would you like time stamps? Or you guys just want to pretend that Hamas is consistent in it's actions?I didn't say anything about Hamas, how odd for you to impute specific claims. Not only is it pure innuendo, you also failed to make any specific point yourself.

I wouldn't doubt your foot stamping refers to something real, but what that is isn't clear from your post.

[Winehole23]

I think it's the other way around. I think this weakened the Palestinian Authority who has always tried to play nice with Israel. Hamas is a political movement...not just a few radicals. It's like all these other fanatical religious based organizations...kill one leader and two more fill the void. After this I certainly don't see the bulk of the Palestinians wanting to play nice with Israel.advantage, Hamas

there's an article in The Nation that says something similar, that Hamas breaking out of Gaza and becoming a party of national liberation was possibly a strategic aim.

think of the IRA and Nelson Mandela -- former terrorists who ended up at peace negotiations and became normal politicians.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thenation.com/article/world/israel-gaza-war/tnamp/

[FrostKing]

I think it's the other way around. I think this weakened the Palestinian Authority who has always tried to play nice with Israel. Hamas is a political movement...not just a few radicals. It's like all these other fanatical religious based organizations...kill one leader and two more fill the void. After this I certainly don't see the bulk of the Palestinians wanting to play nice with Israel.
I think people in Gaza agree but big picture, they weren't supported by the Arab World. Even Hamas soldiers were likely led to believe this was big domino... to boycotting Starbucks sure

Yes there was surprising support in Western nations but the West won. No one stepped up to challenge. Social media posts & boycotts are great and Israel exposed not as strong military as we were led to believe - but Israel is still doing as they please. Palestine didn't gain anything at the negotiationing table

[Winehole23]

This was the argument before Egypt allowed aid through. As with all aid that has been going to Palestinians since Hamas has been in power: getting it to the people in need without it being embezzled is the issue.ok to starve the whole population because bad guys are in charge?

[FrostKing]

ok to starve the whole population because bad guys are in charge?
Bad timing with West going Nationalist. No more "fixing the World"

I would sympathize maybe arguably Hamas forced them to elect but from what I've seen they defend Hamas

Bottomline: this is bleeding support for Hamas. Forcing them to see how life is with them in power.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

ok to starve the whole population because bad guys are in charge?

No, the people are being starved in part because the Hamas is in charge. You do understand that Hamas has been diverting aid for decades right?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I didn't say anything about Hamas, how odd for you to impute specific claims. Not only is it pure innuendo, you also failed to make any specific point yourself.

I wouldn't doubt your foot stamping refers to something real, but what that is isn't clear from your post.

:lol I say that you guys gloss over Hamas and your response is that you don't say anything about Hamas as if that is not the point.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I think it's the other way around. I think this weakened the Palestinian Authority who has always tried to play nice with Israel. Hamas is a political movement...not just a few radicals. It's like all these other fanatical religious based organizations...kill one leader and two more fill the void. After this I certainly don't see the bulk of the Palestinians wanting to play nice with Israel.

Sure it is a political party but there is a machine behind it as well. IDF has stated their goal is to destroy Hamas installations and infrastructure. Hamas is trying real hard to defend them for a reason. The guerilla option in Gaza is pretty diminished.

[Winehole23]

:lol I say that you guys gloss over Hamas and your response is that you don't say anything about Hamas as if that is not the point.So you didn't have a point about Hamas. You were just handwaving. Thanks for clearing that up.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

So you didn't have a point about Hamas. You were just handwaving. Thanks for clearing that up.

No, I have many points. My most recent one is how Hamas has been diverting aid for decades. You still are mum.

[Winehole23]

No, the people are being starved in part because the Hamas is in charge. You do understand that Hamas has been diverting aid for decades right?Sure. No doubt Hamas diverted some of the suitcases filled with Qatari cash, too.

Displacing 80% of Gaza, running them from place to place, starving them and continuing to bomb is collective punishment. I don't think anything justifies that. You seem think the mere existence of Hamas in Gaza does so.

[Winehole23]

No, I have many points. My most recent one is how Hamas has been diverting aid for decades. You still are mum.I just answered you. I don't deny Hamas gets some of the goodies. No one here has.

Do you think that justifies unlimited war on civilians, displacing, bombing and starving them en masse?

[ChumpDumper]

He was able to articulate it. You never did. I already responded to the argument. That is likely why you never wanted to articulate in situ.

You cried and claimed you already knew everything and made it personal then claimed you don't make it personal. I don't know why you short circuit in so many situations. Perhaps your therapist can explore that with you.

[FrostKing]

I just answered you. I don't deny Hamas gets some of the goodies. No one here has.

Do you think that justifies unlimited war on civilians, displacing, bombing and starving them en masse?
A little yah. We are debating when is enough.

[FrostKing]

They support Hamas and now people boycott/protest in our communities

This is a problem to me. Maybe we need to squeeze the rotten juice out

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Sure. No doubt Hamas diverted some of the suitcases filled with Qatari cash, too.

Displacing 80% of Gaza, running them from place to place, starving them and continuing to bomb is collective punishment. I don't think anything justifies that. You seem think the mere existence of Hamas in Gaza does so.

Is aid not coming in from Egypt? Is Israel stopping or preventing it in any way?

What do you imagine to the people that are actually in the shit and cannot get to the international aid coming in from the south? You think your ceasefire is going to save them?

At the end of the day, your way results with Hamas back in control of the region with their police forces and their tax collectors and of course their armed forces.

[FrostKing]

We all have issues with the West. Times have changed. You are with us or not. No more kneeling & explaining ourselves.

West is best. Our values & way of life.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

You cried and claimed you already knew everything and made it personal then claimed you don't make it personal. I don't know why you short circuit in so many situations. Perhaps your therapist can explore that with you.

Nice word salad that is mostly wishful thinking. Still don't have a point I see.

[Winehole23]

Is aid not coming in from Egypt? Is Israel stopping or preventing it in any way?Yes, Israel limits what comes through Rafah. It's a trickle of aid, completely inadequate to the current need


What do you imagine to the people that are actually in the shit and cannot get to the international aid coming in from the south? You think your ceasefire is going to save them?

At the end of the day, your way results with Hamas back in control of the region with their police forces and their tax collectors and of course their armed forces.Here's an example of the personalization I was talking about earlier. While it's true I think there needs to be a ceasefire, calling it "my ceasefire" and "my way" is inaccurate and polemical. Others proposed it first.

If Israel eliminates Hamas's leadership and fighting force, I can think of no better recruitment for the next generation of Hamas than what Israel is doing to Gaza now. They might have done better to make a political deal with Hamas a long time ago, but Israel needed Hamas as a bogeyman, to divide Palestinians and to forestall international diplomacy.

[ChumpDumper]

Nice word salad that is mostly wishful thinking. Still don't have a point I see.:lol you're doing it again.

The funniest part is when you admitted to Winehole that you do make it personal then in the very next post told him you don't make it personal. You and your therapist can determine if you're lying to yourself as well.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I just answered you. I don't deny Hamas gets some of the goodies. No one here has.

Do you think that justifies unlimited war on civilians, displacing, bombing and starving them en masse?

You have cute characterizations but let us discuss what has been going on.

Israel has been normalizing relations with their Sunni neighbor and more importantly with the Palestinians since the last Intifada and the Arab spring events. As Chump gleefully points out in his FAFO scenario for Israel, they started handing out work Visas and border crossings. Both Hamas and the PLO stated they did not want to continue their military branches for their part.

As a result a shit ton of aid started flowing in from all over the world mostly from the EU but ew had a big chunk of that too. Now that money was supposed to go to building schools, hospitals, food distribution networks, etc.

Now from what I understand the PLO has been doing a pretty good job but Hamas essentially took that influx of aid and upped their security and military systems and then laid out a surprise attack.

How do we know that the aid was diverted? Because none of those sewer systems, schools, hospitals, and roads never got built.

You know what IDF and Hamas are fighting over? It's the tunnels, tax offices, police stations, check points, arms depots, etc that they actually built. They have moved through the city center and are pushing them out of the city entire.

So just curious what would you see happen and why do you think it has any chance of helping those people.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

:lol you're doing it again.

The funniest part is when you admitted to Winehole that you do make it personal then in the very next post told him you don't make it personal. You and your therapist can determine if you're lying to yourself as well.

Doing what? Asking if you have an on topic point instead of obsessing over me?

You got me.

I never said I do not make things personal. I said I don't do it all the time. I still think you're a putz so there is that.

[ChumpDumper]

Damn, Fuzzy's on tilt.

Repeats my point multiple times then claims I don't have a point.:lol

My point about Fuzzy personally is that he is a pompous hypocrite who doesn't want discussion, only fealty. If he doesn't get it, he'll make it personal.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Damn, Fuzzy's on tilt.

Back to the wishful thinking. And given that apparently you think that is a winning condition, you're claiming your version of victory.

How droll.

[Winehole23]

How do we know that the aid was diverted? Because none of those sewer systems, schools, hospitals, and roads never got built.I'd be interested to know what source you're relying on. Building materials have been restricted imports in Gaza since 2007.

To take one example, import restrictions (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/25/how-bombings-blockades-and-import-bans-caused-gaza-water-system-to-crumble) have prevented Gaza from rebuilding the desalinization plant that was bombed in 2014.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I'd be interested to know what source you're relying on. Building materials have been restricted imports in Gaza since 2007.

To take one example, import restrictions (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/25/how-bombings-blockades-and-import-bans-caused-gaza-water-system-to-crumble) have prevented Gaza from rebuilding the desalinization plant that was bombed in 2014.

Who said they lifted all the restrictions? I said they were going through the process of normalization. Chump provided the evidence.

[Thread]

Yes, Israel limits what comes through Rafah. It's a trickle of aid, completely inadequate to the current need

Here's an example of the personalization I was talking about earlier. While it's true I think there needs to be a ceasefire, calling it "my ceasefire" and "my way" is inaccurate and polemical. Others proposed it first.

If Israel eliminates Hamas's leadership and fighting force, I can think of no better recruitment for the next generation of Hamas than what Israel is doing to Gaza now. They might have done better to make a political deal with Hamas a long time ago, but Israel needed Hamas as a bogeyman, to divide Palestinians and to forestall international diplomacy.

...like we need(ed) Russia (as our boogeyman) since they bailed our asses out in the European theater way back there before we hit the little Yellow people not once, but..."Again." - Harry S.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Repeats my point multiple times then claims I don't have a point.:lol

My point about Fuzzy personally is that he is a pompous hypocrite who doesn't want discussion, only fealty. If he doesn't get it, he'll make it personal.

:lol you edited the post for that.

there is an example of cliquish behavior here White Knight if you were just to look a bit.

[ChumpDumper]

I don't consider enabling and escorting bagmen for secret payments normalization but thanks for admitting I made a point again.

[ChumpDumper]

:lol you edited the post for that.I added to my post. Sue me.


there is an example of cliquish behavior here White Knight if you were just to look a bit.You need to talk to your therapist about your grade school social fixations. People are allowed to agree and disagree with others.

[Winehole23]

Who said they lifted all the restrictions? I said they were going through the process of normalization. Chump provided the evidence.so then, things not getting built doesn't necessarily prove anything

[Winehole23]

I added to my post. Sue me.

You need to talk to your therapist about your grade school social fixations. People are allowed to agree and disagree with others.There is something wrong with you for disagreeing.

I am white knighting Fuzzy.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

so then, things not getting built doesn't necessarily prove anything

Well like I said, things were getting built in the west bank and while similar things were not built in Gaza some things were.

Seriously though what is your solution? Israel pull out of Gaza entire?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

There is something wrong with you for disagreeing.

I am white knighting Fuzzy.

Console your knight, fair maiden.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I added to my post. Sue me.

You need to talk to your therapist about your grade school social fixations. People are allowed to agree and disagree with others.

Now you are reading like Joey.

:lol Talk about my therapist some more. He never got the point either.

[ChumpDumper]

In what way have I made it personal between us in any conversation, wine, other than to say that I respect you?

Console your knight, fair maiden.
:lmao

[ChumpDumper]

Now you are reading like Joey. You're the one obsessed with someone from high school.


Talk about my therapist some more. He never got the point either.Your therapist? :lol I can see your telling him that.

[Winehole23]

Well like I said, things were getting built in the west bank and while similar things were not built in Gaza some things were.

Seriously though what is your solution? Israel pull out of Gaza entire?stopping the bombing and allowing robust humanitarian aid would be a nice start. Israel can still clear out the tunnels, who's to stop them?

[Winehole23]

Console your knight, fair maiden.lol

[FuzzyLumpkins]

stopping the bombing and allowing robust humanitarian aid would be a nice start.

Okay.

Can you accept the IDF might want to use bombs against entrenched Hamas positions? As has been pointed out they have developed a robust security infrastructure.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

:lmao

Nuance is a struggle for you.

I do not deny that I do include ad hominem in my arguments. I do deny that is all I do.

Have fun chasing windmills for your fair maiden.

[ChumpDumper]

Nuance is a struggle for you.

I do not deny that I do include ad hominem in my arguments. I do deny that is all I do.

Have fun chasing windmills for your fair maiden.I do understand nuance. Where is the nuance in this statement RE: making it personal?


I never said that you had a conspiracy theory. I said that the numbers you were adjusted gratuitously taking advantage of the fact that tiny nature of Gaza. I was speaking to your argument not you. I did say that type of argument was misleading. That is not a characterization of you, sorry.

I could go into the why of you make those arguments but I don't because I don't make it personal.

At least you take confrontation better than Chump does.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I do understand nuance. Where is the nuance in this statement RE: making it personal?

Well, I had not been making it personal and if you have not noticed, wine and I have been discussing the topic while you rant at me.

I will point out explicitly that the post you quoted was not a response to you. This would be a good point to use your preferred method and ask you who the post you quoted was responding to.

I'm not going to do that. It was a response to your fair maiden you are taking me to task over. Bolded red letters. How fierce.

:rollin

[ChumpDumper]

Well, I had not been making it personal and if you have not noticed, wine and I have been discussing the topic while you rant at me.

I will point out explicitly that the post you quoted was not a response to you. This would be a good point to use your preferred method and ask you who the post you quoted was responding to.

I'm not going to do that. It was a response to your fair maiden you are taking me to task over. Bolded red letters. How fierce.

:rollinAnd yet you have made it personal with him as well. How fierce.

:rollin

Your failure to provide nuance in your declaration that you do not make it personal is your problem, not mine.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

And yet you have made it personal with him as well. How fierce.

:rollin

Your failure to provide nuance in your declaration that you do not make it personal is your problem, not mine.

I am having a lot fun with how you are making a fool of yourself. Wine decided to chime in. They didn't get mad about it. Someone did though.

:lol

[ChumpDumper]

I am having a lot fun with how you are making a fool of yourself. Wine decided to chime in. They didn't get mad about it. Someone did though.

:lolYep -- you. Winehole told you exactly how you personalize many if not most of your interactions.

So fierce!

:lol

[Winehole23]

starts as a topical conversation, ends up a multipage, untopical flame war.

seems to be a pattern.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

starts as a topical conversation, ends up a multipage, untopical flame war.

seems to be a pattern.

alright. fair enough. I will just put on the ignore filter for a bit.

[Winehole23]

from the WaPo article


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GBFhv-uXIAA6boM?format=png&name=small

[FuzzyLumpkins]

from the WaPo article

So the Kuwaiti's are in there and need supplies. That is very interesting.

[Winehole23]

So the Kuwaiti's are in there and need supplies. That is very interesting.not sure what you mean.

you don't think people are sick?

you don't trust Kuwaitis?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

not sure what you mean.

you don't think people are sick?

you don't trust Kuwaitis?

Gaza was one of the most fraught places for sanitation in the world with water shortages and no public sanitation beyond trash pickup before it got leveled. Of course people are sick.

It is interesting because as I was stating before I was curious whether or not Sunni state actors would be allowed in.

It's going to be a hundred years before a Palestinian population would willingly accept schools, hospitals, or sewers run by Israeli's. They might with the Kuwaiti though. Smaller Arab league nations make a whole lot sense.

Now I get that this is probably just a doctors without borders thing but that is the type of thing I look for as opposed to dead babies.

[ChumpDumper]

Why can't they be allowed to run their own schools, hospitals, or sewers?

[Winehole23]

Gaza was one of the most fraught places for sanitation in the world with water shortages and no public sanitation beyond trash pickup before it got leveled. Of course people are sick.Sounds like you're minimizing.

The disease burden of hundreds of thousands of people under heightened siege conditions, under the stress of continual bombardment and displacement, without shelter, food and clean water and access to health care, crowded into small, unsanitary safe zones -- should be expectably higher than the baseline, no? To suggest than nothing at all has changed because sanitation and disease were problems in Gaza before Oct 7th seems more polemical than plausible.

[Winehole23]

Why can't they be allowed to run their own schools, hospitals, or sewers?that's all HAMAS infrastructure

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Sounds like you're minimizing.

The disease burden of hundreds of thousands of people under heightened siege conditions, under the stress of continual bombardment and displacement, without shelter, food and clean water and access to health care, crowded into small, unsanitary safe zones -- should be expectably higher than the baseline, no? To suggest than nothing at all has changed because sanitation and disease were problems in Gaza before Oct 7th seems more polemical than plausible.

I just said that it was like that before the place was leveled. That implies that it got worse after IDF started their offensive.

What should I have done to make it right? More dead babies?

[Winehole23]

I just said that it was like that before the place was leveled. That implies that it got worse after IDF started their offensive.Hmm, sounds like the opposite to me, but only you know what you really meant. Elliptical reasoning leads reliably to misunderstandings.

You can head that off by being a little clearer about what you mean, but I just cleared it up by asking you directly so no matter.

[FrostKing]

Palestine chooses to play victim and side against the International Community - instead friends with Iran etc

Long term they are arrogant enough to think the tide will turn and West will decline. They are betting against us. Join the winning side and enjoy a good life alongside Israel. 50% of Gaza before the War was dependent on UN welfare? Join us....

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Hmm, sounds like the opposite to me, but only you know what you really meant. Elliptical reasoning leads reliably to misunderstandings.

You can head that off by being a little clearer about what you mean, but I just cleared it up by asking you directly so no matter.

If I level a city, does the sanitation situation become better or worse?

[Winehole23]

If I level a city, does the sanitation situation become better or worse?like i said, anpther reasonable inference was that you were deflecting/minimizing, as you've done a few times itt. thanks for clarifying.

:tu

[Ef-man]

https://x.com/visegrad24/status/1734439673877975045

[FuzzyLumpkins]

like i said, anpther reasonable inference was that you were deflecting/minimizing, as you've done a few times itt. thanks for clarifying.

:tu

Again with the assertion. Quote me minimizing the impact of the war on the refugees.

I think we need to work on your critical thinking skills while reading to help you work past your bias and assumptions.

[Ef-man]

https://x.com/visegrad24/status/1734566904629428292

[Tyronn Lue]

https://x.com/visegrad24/status/1734439673877975045
About like the Spurs recently

[Tyronn Lue]

https://x.com/visegrad24/status/1734566904629428292
Fucking around with Yaweh's chosen and finding out

[ChumpDumper]

https://x.com/visegrad24/status/1734566904629428292

Inshallah.

[Ef-man]

About like the Spurs recently

Not as bad as Spurs as hamas has a good point guard.

[Winehole23]

Again with the assertion. Quote me minimizing the impact of the war on the refugees.

I think we need to work on your critical thinking skills while reading to help you work past your bias and assumptions.proposed theraputic-bureaucratic encounter not accepted.

keep responding, you're doing great!

[Ef-man]

https://x.com/TheDeadDistrict/status/1733883975549030881

[Tyronn Lue]

Not as bad as Spurs as hamas has a good point guard.
:lol at least they got through the defense

[FuzzyLumpkins]

proposed theraputic-bureaucratic encounter not accepted.

keep responding, you're doing great!

You're not. You are reduced to assertions and patronizing. Enjoy your unquestioned assumptions.

[Thread]

You're not. You are reduced to assertions and patronizing. Enjoy your unquestioned assumptions.

Gee, first Lumps & Dumps at each other's throats, now Lumps & the Winester.

[Ef-man]

Fucking around with Yaweh's chosen and finding out


Inshallah.

Insha'Allah, Yahweh has spoken, FAFO. He died!

https://x.com/nexta_tv/status/1735266481200349247

[Ef-man]

https://x.com/nexta_tv/status/1735202741268439135

[Ef-man]

https://x.com/visegrad24/status/1735020362331566134

[Thread]

https://x.com/nexta_tv/status/1735202741268439135

...afterward? Nobel and his Peace Prize(s)...one for Yahoo & one for fuck face Biden.

Like clockwork.

[Tyronn Lue]

Insha'Allah, Yahweh has spoken, FAFO. He died!

https://x.com/nexta_tv/status/1735266481200349247
"Just a coincidence" -followers

[Tyronn Lue]

https://x.com/visegrad24/status/1735020362331566134
That's like better than Hollywood ambulance response time.

[Thread]

"Just a coincidence" -followers

- "Dogs, cats, people. Nobody get out of life alive."

- "Hud" - "Hud"

[FrostKing]

https://i.ibb.co/n73n8xp/Screenshot-20231214-140332-Chrome.png

Here we go. Time for mass deportations.

[Winehole23]

much of the global container fleet is avoiding the Red Sea



https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GBozKQqXMAAyjuf?format=jpg&name=small (https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/evergreen-shipping-line-stop-accepting-israeli-cargo-suspend-red-sea-route-2023-12-18/)

[Thread]

much of the global container fleet is avoiding the Red Sea

Uncle Putin did that.

ha, ha.

[Ef-man]

Ole Joe doing god's work

https://x.com/ChuckPfarrer/status/1736861775193378903

[Thread]

Ole Joe doing god's work

https://x.com/ChuckPfarrer/status/1736861775193378903

Like Putin & his 20%. tee, hee.

[Ef-man]

Houthis fucked around and are about to find out

https://x.com/visegrad24/status/1736883317176188949

[pgardn]

Insha'Allah, Yahweh has spoken, FAFO. He died!

https://x.com/nexta_tv/status/1735266481200349247

This is haters fav.

[Thread]

Houthis fucked around and are about to find out

https://x.com/visegrad24/status/1736883317176188949

Putin did that.

tee, hee.

[FrostKing]

I gotta hand it to Hamas. This strategy is new for them and rather working.

Surprise attack and immediately vanish. I think it's telling the Arab World as a whole is staying neutral and Palestinians won't publicly question Hamas - but some people especially in the West are for the first time raising legitimate questions about US aid to Israel. The argument - we have less government help as citizens while supporting a foreign nation rings true.

But protest tinkering on annoyance are also uniting Europeans against massive foreign cultures migrating.

Bottomline - this is an old conflict but I think we are seeing new/fresh angles. In that sense Hamas got what they wanted. So far. And Netanyahu has gotten a new lease on his Presidency.

[Thread]

I gotta hand it to Hamas. This strategy is new for them and rather working.

Surprise attack and immediately vanish. I think it's telling the Arab World as a whole is staying neutral and Palestinians won't publicly question Hamas - but some people especially in the West are for the first time raising legitimate questions about US aid to Israel. The argument - we have less government help as citizens while supporting a foreign nation rings true.

But protest tinkering on annoyance are also uniting Europeans against massive foreign cultures migrating.

Bottomline - this is an old conflict but I think we are seeing new/fresh angles. In that sense Hamas got what they wanted. So far. And Netanyahu has gotten a new lease on his Presidency.

Like that cocksucker Biden:::raises gasoline prices from $2 to $5+ a gallon and they don't run his cocksuckin' ass off.
Like that fuck Biden:::pays Ukrainian retirement plans, but, threatens that American SS will be broke in a few years.
Like that mother fucker Biden:::goes out to Dover with his fuckin watch when the kids come home...that mother fucker.

[FrostKing]

Like that cocksucker Biden:::raises gasoline prices from $2 to $5+ a gallon and they don't run his cocksuckin' ass off.
Like that fuck Biden:::pays Ukrainian retirement plans, but, threatens that American SS will be broke in a few years.
Like that mother fucker Biden:::goes out to Dover with his fuckin watch when the kids come home...that mother fucker.
Not sure how much Joe is personally in charge.

[pgardn]

Not sure how much Joe is personally in charge.

Hanging by a Thread would be reduced to a homeless man if the institutions in the US crumble and the rule of law crumble like he wants.
Dude definitely gets SS and medicare. Take those government institutions away and he becomes... off this board? Maybe things do need to go rotten.

[pgardn]

I gotta hand it to Hamas. This strategy is new for them and rather working.

Surprise attack and immediately vanish. I think it's telling the Arab World as a whole is staying neutral and Palestinians won't publicly question Hamas - but some people especially in the West are for the first time raising legitimate questions about US aid to Israel. The argument - we have less government help as citizens while supporting a foreign nation rings true.

But protest tinkering on annoyance are also uniting Europeans against massive foreign cultures migrating.

Bottomline - this is an old conflict but I think we are seeing new/fresh angles. In that sense Hamas got what they wanted. So far. And Netanyahu has gotten a new lease on his Presidency.

Netanyahu has got no such thing. This will stop and this will be looked at closely. If Israel is a real democracy they will do away with him. He still cant get away from facts like his own soldiers shooting his captives. He still cant control his press as well (Putin; this would never be published in Russia). In that sense Israel is a lot like the US. Trump is a highly disruptive megalomaniac criminal. We also have a choice about getting rid of cancer. We know who he is.

And you had to know this when Hamas was successful. They dont give a shit about Palestinian people. They need lifelines to survive, that means death and money. And there are countries willing to give both. Iran via Russias blessings and encouragement. Hamas upper crust in Iran knew exactly what would happen.

What the Israeli settlers are doing in the West Bank was/is an added bonus. The world sees this through the press. Something hater and sometimes yourself never catch on to. The fourth branch of government is the press allowed to do a job. Tainted in some respects as always, but enough elements giving the Truth to be incredibly valuable to the citizens. It remains for the citizens to be curious and want the truth., seek the truth.

[FrostKing]

Netanyahu has got no such thing. This will stop and this will be looked at closely. If Israel is a real democracy they will do away with him. He still cant get away from facts like his own soldiers shooting his captives. He still cant control his press as well (Putin; this would never be published in Russia). In that sense Israel is a lot like the US. Trump is a highly disruptive megalomaniac criminal. We also have a choice about getting rid of cancer. We know who he is.

And you had to know this when Hamas was successful. They dont give a shit about Palestinian people. They need lifelines to survive, that means death and money. And there are countries willing to give both. Iran via Russias blessings and encouragement. Hamas upper crust in Iran knew exactly what would happen.

What the Israeli settlers are doing in the West Bank was/is an added bonus. The world sees this through the press. Something hater and sometimes yourself never catch on to. The fourth branch of government is the press allowed to do a job. Tainted in some respects as always, but enough elements giving the Truth to be incredibly valuable to the citizens. It remains for the citizens to be curious and want the truth., seek the truth.
There are a number of long term "democratic leaders" in power still - Putin & Erdogan for example. Even if Israel was prepared to replace him, not sure this is the time. The West has been very successful in Ukraine & Gaza (keeping 3rd parties from getting involved) but leadership is transitioning. Can't fault Israel for staying with the proven hand right now.

We know the truth. It's more the globalization of intertwined agreements and allies. Both Palestine & Israel have a justified perspective.

Ultimately will outside funds from for example Germany (Holocaust) and USA halt or even decrease? In our lifetime I don't see it. IMO such decisions aren't as clear cut as - do you support this current military conflict and If so then we cut off support. It's complicated but like I stated before Hamas seems to be using different strategy than usual to garner International support, and seems to be smart move.

[Ef-man]

https://x.com/visegrad24/status/1736691275888279731

[Thread]

Netanyahu has got no such thing. This will stop and this will be looked at closely. If Israel is a real democracy they will do away with him. He still cant get away from facts like his own soldiers shooting his captives. He still cant control his press as well (Putin; this would never be published in Russia). In that sense Israel is a lot like the US. Trump is a highly disruptive megalomaniac criminal. We also have a choice about getting rid of cancer. We know who he is.

And you had to know this when Hamas was successful. They dont give a shit about Palestinian people. They need lifelines to survive, that means death and money. And there are countries willing to give both. Iran via Russias blessings and encouragement. Hamas upper crust in Iran knew exactly what would happen.

What the Israeli settlers are doing in the West Bank was/is an added bonus. The world sees this through the press. Something hater and sometimes yourself never catch on to. The fourth branch of government is the press allowed to do a job. Tainted in some respects as always, but enough elements giving the Truth to be incredibly valuable to the citizens. It remains for the citizens to be curious and want the truth., seek the truth.

Horseshit. Blinken///Biden, in close association with CNN have already put a stiff stopper in the bottle for Yahoo. They saw the opportunity to put Yahoo in the jackpot and jumped high, peeg, & wide, on-the-spot BEFORE he was high tech, or, otherwise lynched by his people WITHIN the first 48 hours. They went fuckin' quick! Now Yahoo owes the U.S.A., and hugely so. He ain't goin' nowhere, son.

[FrostKing]

The top officials from Mossad, the CIA and Qatar prime minister are meeting in Warsaw.

[Thread]

The top officials from Mossad, the CIA and Qatar prime minister are meeting in Warsaw.

It took over a month to recall and get them Mossads to report in person from the sunny climbs of South America where they was a searching a high & a low for Nazi's, never mind they'd/Nazi's been in Ukraine forever.

I see Qatar is back in the good graces of Biden. They're in & out of the dog house so often it's hard to keep track of the shit holers.

And last but not least the CIA...finally awakened at the wheel when Ham busted that Jew hole wide open.

We're still waiting for CNN, MSNBC and FOX to question them about Ham getting into the Jewish Clock business on CIA's watch. They cleaned that fuckin' Jew clock something fearsome, eh, kids? I think I'll grow gray and die before that ever happens. I'm already old.

Big shots.

[Winehole23]

Israel offs three of its own hostages, heads back (https://x.com/BarakRavid/status/1737236933338968085?s=20) to the negotiating table

1737236933338968085

[Thread]

Israel offs three of its own hostages, heads back (https://x.com/BarakRavid/status/1737236933338968085?s=20) to the negotiating table

1737236933338968085

An olive branch by Yahoo. tee, hee.

[velik_m]

https://twitter.com/HananyaNaftali/status/1736850661185053119

[Thread]

https://twitter.com/HananyaNaftali/status/1736850661185053119

Then when they blow up the Twin Towers we can't understand why.

tee, hee.

[Winehole23]

it's not that complicated, Israel has responded to a horrific massacre with a world historical crime. kind of like the US did with the invasion of Iraq.



https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GB29EnyWMAAmTbP?format=jpg&name=small

[Thread]

it's not that complicated, Israel has responded to a horrific massacre with a world historical crime. kind of like the US did with the invasion of Iraq.

But it will never be portrayed that way in this country, nor in the [history books/annals]. Not even close. CNN, MSNBC, FOX, all of 'em have been straining at their limits 24/7 to frame it altogether different...to preserve Yahoo, preserve the Jews, and most importantly...preserve the purity of The Holocaust...that purity cannot be lost within these massacres. That, above all else is the lone mission of MSM, and the State Department.

[Winehole23]

sound off, SpursTalkers, is mass starvation enforced by a blockade a legitimate war tactic?

if so, why?


More than half a million people in Gaza — a quarter of the population — are starving, according to a report Thursday by the U.N. and other agencies that highlights the humanitarian crisis caused by Israel’s bombardment (https://apnews.com/hub/israel-hamas-war) and siege on the territory in response to Hamas’ Oct. 7 attack.

The extent of the population’s hunger eclipsed even the near-famines in Afghanistan and Yemen of recent years, according to figures in the report.
https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-news-12-21-2023-7d9718b32bf0d308c44c7c9e3c4e0deb

[FuzzyLumpkins]

sound off, SpursTalkers, is mass starvation enforced by a blockade a legitimate war tactic?

if so, why?

https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-news-12-21-2023-7d9718b32bf0d308c44c7c9e3c4e0deb

Did they block aid coming from Egypt?

[Winehole23]

Did they block aid coming from Egypt?Absolutely they have. Israel controls how much enters at the Rafah crossing, and has even bombed it from time to time. The amount permitted to come in is far short of daily nutritional needs and has been for 2 1/2 months.

The Kerem Shalom crossing got bombed yesterday, I think, just a few days after it was declared open.

Gaza has had zero control over its border for 15 years, and was already sort of half-throttled to start with. The incipient famine is 100% on Israel.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Absolutely they have. Israel controls how much enters at the Rafah crossing, and has even bombed it from time to time. The amount permitted to come in is far short of daily nutritional needs and has been for 2 1/2 months.

The Kerem Shalom crossing got bombed yesterday, I think, just a few days after it was declared open.

Gaza has had zero control over its border for 15 years, and was already sort of half-throttled to start with. The incipient famine is 100% on Israel.

So then it is not a blockade.

[Winehole23]

So then it is not a blockade.Sure it is. When another country controls who and what can enter your country and when, that's a blockade.

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/blockade

[Winehole23]

Do you have your own definition of the word?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Sure it is. When another country controls who and what can enter your country and when, that's a blockade.

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/blockade

block·ade
/ˌbläˈkād/
noun
an act or means of sealing off a place to prevent goods or people from entering or leaving.
"there was a blockade of humanitarian aid"

No that is when you block any crossing. Most nations have some level of control over border crossings. Aid is allowed through.

I have been reading about huge distribution problems which makes sense seeing that it is a war zone.

[Winehole23]

block·ade
/ˌbläˈkād/
noun
an act or means of sealing off a place to prevent goods or people from entering or leaving.
"there was a blockade of humanitarian aid"

No that is when you block any crossing. Most nations have some level of control over border crossings. Aid is allowed through.

I have been reading about huge distribution problems which makes sense seeing that it is a war zone.If country A limits how much food, fuel and medicine country B can get, that's a blockade by the plain words of the definition.

If there's some more technical or specialized definition you're relying on, please share it.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

If country A limits how much food, fuel and medicine country B can get, that's a blockade by the plain words of the definition.

If there's some more technical or specialized definition you're relying on, please share it.

So you think that sealing off a place implies a measured input/output flow should be possible?

[Winehole23]

So you think that sealing off a place implies a measured input/output flow should be possible?If a place is partially sealed off, it is still sealed off. To argue that only a perfect blockade is really a blockade is facile.

[Winehole23]

anyway, you dodged a direct question

[FuzzyLumpkins]

And nevermind that Egypt is much more if not moreso difficult when it comes to what they are letting cross. They are letting zero people in much like Jordan.

While you are off on your holiday in Cambodia the entire Sunni culture's leadership has taken their position and it is not the same place.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

If a place is partially sealed off, it is still sealed off. To argue that only a perfect blockade is really a blockade is facile.

No that means it is sealed off in places and not sealed off in others.

Speaking of facile, choosing words like 'blockade,' and all the other similarly flammatory rhetoric you have been quoting lately is precisely cheap, facile tactics.

[Winehole23]

No that means it is sealed off in places and not sealed off in others.

Speaking of facile, choosing words like 'blockade,' and all the other similarly flammatory rhetoric you have been quoting lately is precisely cheap, facile tactics.If Israel's actions fit the literal definitions of "blockade" and "genocide" that isn't cheap or facile to point out. It's objective.