Fischer: Spurs Repeatedly Mentioned By NBA Figures As Potential Home For Young

[gambit1990]

dejounte is absolutely licking his chops right now, this as good as it could get for him.

all he has to do is win some games, show effort on defense and someone is bound to reward him.

he has a blank check. losses can just be chalked up to "well trae is out". right or wrong, the fans and FO will really start to wonder what they could get for young.

[gambit1990]

even the hawks are in a great position. i really doubt murray lays an egg for the rest of the season. he could drop 50 points.

hawks will have two great trade pieces this summer.

i'd still rather the spurs nab young though, by a mile.

[gambit1990]

i think with how much wemby can handle the ball that he + murray can win games.

but like i said years ago, murray is george hill 3.0. dejounte can show up for RS games, have some big games in the playoffs but i don't think he's the starting 1 you want to have if you wanna win it all. unless the team is stacked enough, and the spurs get don't get big names in thru free agency.

[tbdog]

i think with how much wemby can handle the ball that he + murray can win games.

but like i said years ago, murray is george hill 3.0. dejounte can show up for RS games, have some big games in the playoffs but i don't think he's the starting 1 you want to have if you wanna win it all. unless the team is stacked enough, and the spurs get don't get big names in thru free agency.

Murray could be a champion point guard as the third or fourth best player in the team. I just think we have our future third and fourth best player in a championship team in vassel and Sochan. It's now finding the second best player. That's not Murray.

[Chinook]

I don't think he is grandfathered into the SuperMax. He will need to make an all-NBA team next season to qualify for the SuperMax. I posted this early in discussing his contract, but it may actually be in his interest to opt of of the last year of his deal and only sign a two year extension which will take him into his 10th season, when he can get 35% based on years of service.

If not, then my understanding is that he'll only be eligible for a 30% extension. I assumed in the chart that his bird rights transfer, but I'm actually not sure of that either, because I saw somewhere that for your Bird rights to stay in tact you have to be traded by a certain point in your career, which has passed. I do not believe his deal can exceed 30% of the cap unless he hits the SuperMax criteria.

I keep making drafts of a reply to this and forgetting to post. Young is extension eligible this summer. You're probably right about the DPE having to wait, which means Young may not want to be traded until after he signs it. His Bird rights transfer over, but only Atlanta can sign him to a DPE. He'll have to wait sic6 months to either be traded after extending or to be extended after trading. That means functionally that he'd have to extend with ATL this summer in order to be tradeable by the deadline or just be traded without the extension.

[CGD]

^ feels like ATL is sending some strong signals that they have little interest in paying him the DPE. Perhaps this is what all this trade chatter is about at the root.

[Seventyniner]

^ feels like ATL is sending some strong signals that they have little interest in paying him the DPE. Perhaps this is what all this trade chatter is about at the root.

A very logical read.

imo the supermax has backfired. It was designed to let teams keep players that would otherwise walk, but there are far more players who want it than actually deserve it. This leads to teams having to trade away players that they don't want to supermax for cents on the dollar.

I wonder if this could be avoided by having supermax eligibility travel with trades. Then the receiving team would have to deal with that headache too, meaning the player would have to have their come to jesus moment and realize they aren't getting the supermax even though they are eligible. Or the receiving team might think the player is worth the supermax after all. But that defeats the purpose of the supermax in the first place.

[JPB]

Murray could be a champion point guard as the third or fourth best player in the team. I just think we have our future third and fourth best player in a championship team in vassel and Sochan. It's now finding the second best player. That's not Murray.

Sorry but Sochan is not your 4th best player in a championship team. One of spurs priority is to actually find a starting PF/big to start along Wemby. Sochan is undersized, and get pushed/scored on by everyone taller than 6'9 in this league and guard any strong big Victor can't. And as a non shooter, he can't really stretccan't h the floor for Victor.

[KobesAchilles]

I think this draft is about as important a draft for the future of our franchise as any I can remember. If we nail this draft then we could trade for Young and really be on the path to creating our team of the future.

Young
filler defensive SG
FRP
Sochan (just have him practice corner 3s all summer)
Wemby

Bench
FRP
Vassell
added assets

[BacktoBasics]

In terms of the lottery rankings, I think he means “fall” as in drop from #7 to 8 or 9 in the end of season rankings. That reduces their chances at a top 4 pick.

Correct. I’d rather have a cushion of a pick or two than lose out.

[Mr. Body]

Sorry but Sochan is not your 4th best player in a championship team. One of spurs priority is to actually find a starting PF/big to start along Wemby. Sochan is undersized, and get pushed/scored on by everyone taller than 6'9 in this league and guard any strong big Victor can't. And as a non shooter, he can't really stretch the floor for Victor.

Championships? We talking about championships? Honey, we're looking for the playoffs at this point.

Christ, people need to stop shitting on our players, too. Not saying he's the answer, but Sochan has the best chemistry with Wemby than anyone on the team. Eventually he may move to the bench. Whatever.

But he's only a few ticks behind Scottie Barnes comparing their sophomore years, with Sochan a year younger at that comparative point. Not saying stats are everything, but fucking hell these players are very young and developing. This fan base is insane. Championships? Jesus.

[scott]

Since moving back to PF, Sochan has been pretty good. TONS (even an almost unforgiveable amount) of mental errors, but he's young and we hope those will work themselves out. Would like to see him get tougher on the boards, but he's by far from the biggest problem right now.

[scott]

I keep making drafts of a reply to this and forgetting to post. Young is extension eligible this summer. You're probably right about the DPE having to wait, which means Young may not want to be traded until after he signs it. His Bird rights transfer over, but only Atlanta can sign him to a DPE. He'll have to wait sic6 months to either be traded after extending or to be extended after trading. That means functionally that he'd have to extend with ATL this summer in order to be tradeable by the deadline or just be traded without the extension.

Thanks Chinook - what is it that makes him extension eligible this summer? I included it in a very long post about his contract earlier, but from my research it didn't seem he was eligible currently. Thanks for the clarification on the DPE rules, I didn't realize that only ATL can sign him to a SuperMax. In that regard, if the Spurs wanted to make a move for him, it might be in his interest to do so this summer so they can get him locked in at a 30% extension eventually (assuming he waives his trade kicker). Trae at a 30% max deal alongside Wemby on a rookie SuperMax and Devin getting a 140% extension (assuming all goes well) isn't THAT bad (around 70% of the cap)

[spurraider21]

dejounte is absolutely licking his chops right now, this as good as it could get for him.

all he has to do is win some games, show effort on defense and someone is bound to reward him.

he has a blank check. losses can just be chalked up to "well trae is out". right or wrong, the fans and FO will really start to wonder what they could get for young.
he's already locked into a 4 year extension which doesnt even kick in until next season

[spurraider21]

Since moving back to PF, Sochan has been pretty good. TONS (even an almost unforgiveable amount) of mental errors, but he's young and we hope those will work themselves out. Would like to see him get tougher on the boards, but he's by far from the biggest problem right now.
hes been whatever

since becoming the starting 4 he has averaged 11/7/3 on 44/30//75 splits

as the starting point guard he was averaging 12/5.5/4.5 on 45/43/79 splits

obviously with him handling the ball a lot less, the early season flaws arent as prevalent. but outside of maybe 3-5 games i dont think his defense has been notable at all regardless of position

[Chinook]

Thanks Chinook - what is it that makes him extension eligible this summer? I included it in a very long post about his contract earlier, but from my research it didn't seem he was eligible currently. Thanks for the clarification on the DPE rules, I didn't realize that only ATL can sign him to a SuperMax. In that regard, if the Spurs wanted to make a move for him, it might be in his interest to do so this summer so they can get him locked in at a 30% extension eventually (assuming he waives his trade kicker). Trae at a 30% max deal alongside Wemby on a rookie SuperMax and Devin getting a 140% extension (assuming all goes well) isn't THAT bad (around 70% of the cap)

Contracts are eligible to be extended three years after they are signed. The third anniversary of Young's extension signing will be during this off-season (August 6). Because he has an ETO rather than a regular player-option, the extension would have to be for only two additional years (meaning that it would include his two normal years, the ETO year and two additional years for a total of five years). If it were a PO, he could opt out of that year and then take three extension years.

Two things that might have come up while you were looking:

1) Young cannot sign this extension AND be traded this off-season. It's not clear he can sign that extension and be trade eligible by the deadline either. My guess is the deadline next year will be 02/06/2025. If Young's anniversary is truly 08/06, that means the sixth-month restriction would take it all the way to that date. I don't know how exactly the NBA defines sixth months and if the restriction would be lifted on 02/06 or 02/07, but that could be one reason why you can to the conclusion an extension isn't possible.

2) The DPE is a special extension that requires the player to have seven years of accrued service. The NBA has a zeroth year for rookies during their first off-season, so seven years of service means a player has to already be in their seventh regular season. DPE extensions can only be signed during the off-season, so Young won't be DPE-eligible until he is in the off-season after his seventh year, meaning 2025's summer.

Yes, the DPE is specifically for teams who had the player during their rookie contracts. It doesn't require the player to have been drafted by that team (which is why Harden was able to get it), but it does require that player having played their entire first extension with that team up to that point. I agree with Seventyniner (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=17327) that the DPE sucks, but in this case it's a double-edged sword. It makes it less likely Young requests out, but it also makes it far more likely that Wemby doesn't request out than some fans may have believed. If anything, what I learned from all this is that Wemby will likely be a Spur for at least eight years rather than seven given the extra year he has to wait to sign the DPE.

Being able to offer the DPE after the trade 100-percent defeats the purpose of it, though. It's meant as a nicer version of the NFL's franchise tag. If a player can demand to be traded and get a DPE, then the whole provision would just be a way to give the players more money for no reason. It's bad because players get overpaid for being "loyal" while still being able to demand a trade, and it just becomes a new status symbol for agents. There are only a small handful of players who got the DPE and were able to give that value back to their teams. It's basically only Curry and maybe Jokic and Giannis in my mind. It lacks an enforcement mechanisms to prevent player movement, which means it can't do its job.

[thiste]

Championships? We talking about championships? Honey, we're looking for the playoffs at this point.

Christ, people need to stop shitting on our players, too. Not saying he's the answer, but Sochan has the best chemistry with Wemby than anyone on the team. Eventually he may move to the bench. Whatever.

But he's only a few ticks behind Scottie Barnes comparing their sophomore years, with Sochan a year younger at that comparative point. Not saying stats are everything, but fucking hell these players are very young and developing. This fan base is insane. Championships? Jesus.

We're looking at .500 at this point.

[exstatic]

LeBron didn’t make the playoffs until his 3rd season. KD didn’t make the playoffs until his 3rd season. If you want another 15+ year run,well that takes time. What most of you are proposing is a 3-5 year bonfire that, when it burns out, leaves nothing to rebuild with.

[JPB]

Championships? We talking about championships? Honey, we're looking for the playoffs at this point.

Christ, people need to stop shitting on our players, too. Not saying he's the answer, but Sochan has the best chemistry with Wemby than anyone on the team. Eventually he may move to the bench. Whatever.

But he's only a few ticks behind Scottie Barnes comparing their sophomore years, with Sochan a year younger at that comparative point. Not saying stats are everything, but fucking hell these players are very young and developing. This fan base is insane. Championships? Jesus.

How about reading quotes, I was answering someone saying Sochan is your 4th best player in a championship team... And ii you think I'm hard on Sochan, or spurs "youngsters", go read what fanbases from teams we meet say about them...

Hint: Man, the'yre terribe, damn they suck, borderline NBA players, Poor Wemby..." I mean, spurs are 10-125 or something... They freaking SUCK with Wemby kicking ass, like they were last year. That's who they are, not because they're tanking, of funky lineups, throwing games. or not trying hard.... They just SUCK.

That's the opposite, were are OVERRATING Sochan, Keldon, Tre or even Devin. Yes, Sochan is an undersized PF who can't shoot and misses wemby half of the time... He's average (or bad) at everything and doesn't really excel at anything. ofc, he'll progress, everybody does in any job just out of repetitions and experience, but not to the point where he wouldn't be expendable in a Wemby lead team. He'll be a decent role player at best.

[Mr. Body]

How about reading quotes, I was answering someone saying Sochan is your 4th best player in a championship team... And ii you think I'm hard on Sochan, or spurs "youngsters", go read what fanbases from teams we meet say about them...

Hint: Man, the'yre terribe, damn they suck, borderline NBA players, Poor Wemby..." I mean, spurs are 10-125 or something... They freaking SUCK with Wemby kicking ass, like they were last year. That's who they are, not because they're tanking, of funky lineups, throwing games. or not trying hard.... They just SUCK.

That's the opposite, were are OVERRATING Sochan, Keldon, Tre or even Devin. Yes, Sochan is an undersized PF who can't shoot and misses wemby half of the time... He's average (or bad) at everything and doesn't really excel at anything. ofc, he'll progress, everybody does in any job just out of repetitions and experience, but not to the point where he wouldn't be expendable in a Wemby lead team. He'll be a decent role player at best.

No one's overrating these players. This board is a fucking dumpathon. Same as the Spurs subreddit. A bunch of fucking inbred tools make up the online Spurs fanbase.

Sochan is fucking 20 years old. He's not far off in production from Scottie Barnes the year after Barnes won the fucking Rookie of the Year. Jesus Christ are people here infants, joining both impatience with a total lack of perspective.

[scott]

Contracts are eligible to be extended three years after they are signed. The third anniversary of Young's extension signing will be during this off-season (August 6). Because he has an ETO rather than a regular player-option, the extension would have to be for only two additional years (meaning that it would include his two normal years, the ETO year and two additional years for a total of five years). If it were a PO, he could opt out of that year and then take three extension years.

Two things that might have come up while you were looking:

1) Young cannot sign this extension AND be traded this off-season. It's not clear he can sign that extension and be trade eligible by the deadline either. My guess is the deadline next year will be 02/06/2025. If Young's anniversary is truly 08/06, that means the sixth-month restriction would take it all the way to that date. I don't know how exactly the NBA defines sixth months and if the restriction would be lifted on 02/06 or 02/07, but that could be one reason why you can to the conclusion an extension isn't possible.

2) The DPE is a special extension that requires the player to have seven years of accrued service. The NBA has a zeroth year for rookies during their first off-season, so seven years of service means a player has to already be in their seventh regular season. DPE extensions can only be signed during the off-season, so Young won't be DPE-eligible until he is in the off-season after his seventh year, meaning 2025's summer.

Yes, the DPE is specifically for teams who had the player during their rookie contracts. It doesn't require the player to have been drafted by that team (which is why Harden was able to get it), but it does require that player having played their entire first extension with that team up to that point. I agree with Seventyniner (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=17327) that the DPE sucks, but in this case it's a double-edged sword. It makes it less likely Young requests out, but it also makes it far more likely that Wemby doesn't request out than some fans may have believed. If anything, what I learned from all this is that Wemby will likely be a Spur for at least eight years rather than seven given the extra year he has to wait to sign the DPE.

Being able to offer the DPE after the trade 100-percent defeats the purpose of it, though. It's meant as a nicer version of the NFL's franchise tag. If a player can demand to be traded and get a DPE, then the whole provision would just be a way to give the players more money for no reason. It's bad because players get overpaid for being "loyal" while still being able to demand a trade, and it just becomes a new status symbol for agents. There are only a small handful of players who got the DPE and were able to give that value back to their teams. It's basically only Curry and maybe Jokic and Giannis in my mind. It lacks an enforcement mechanisms to prevent player movement, which means it can't do its job.

Tre might be better of waiting to see if he is DPE eligible in 2025, and if not he can just do a short term extension that takes him to 10 years of service where he can get a 35% deal, right?

[TD 21]

Discussion starts around 43 minutes. After Warriors fanboy Spears essentially alleges the league rigged the lottery for the Spurs and Mavericks fanboy/Spurs hater MacMahon gets his usual shots in at Pop, they go on to talk about Wembanyama's patience or lack thereof, Young and his possible connection to the Spurs . . .

Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective on Apple Podcasts (https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/brian-windhorst-the-hoop-collective/id293376147)



Since moving back to PF, Sochan has been pretty good. TONS (even an almost unforgiveable amount) of mental errors, but he's young and we hope those will work themselves out. Would like to see him get tougher on the boards, but he's by far from the biggest problem right now.

Andy Bailey occasionally aggregates players based on the average score of 8 "catch all" metrics and in the latest update Sochan is 284th out of 332 qualifiers (minimum 400 minutes).

I get that he's only in his second season, is 20 and started the season playing out of position, but all the evidence to this point indicates a player somewhere between fringe rotation and replacement level.

[tbdog]

Sorry but Sochan is not your 4th best player in a championship team. One of spurs priority is to actually find a starting PF/big to start along Wemby. Sochan is undersized, and get pushed/scored on by everyone taller than 6'9 in this league and guard any strong big Victor can't. And as a non shooter, he can't really stretccan't h the floor for Victor.

Mate, Draymond Green was drafted as a SF and became one of the best post defenders ever. He became the third best player for the warriors. Sochan is developing nicely as that complimentary piece and looking better than Draymond did in his second year.

[LeBowen]

LeBron didn’t make the playoffs until his 3rd season.

9th seed in first and second season, missed by one game and tiebreaker, respectively.
Was over .500 in 2005.

And I'm not sure you want to make Cavaliers comparison because they were extremely incompetent.


KD didn’t make the playoffs until his 3rd season.

Not a fair comparison, he got drafted to a team that was in the process of relocating.
Went from 23 wins in second to 50 in third season.


If you want another 15+ year run,well that takes time.

We're 5 years into the lottery and have one good player other than Wemby.
We just want to see some semblance of where this roster is going, not an extension for Zach fucking Collins.


What most of you are proposing is a 3-5 year bonfire that, when it burns out, leaves nothing to rebuild with.

Spurs have 8 FRPs in the next 4 drafts and countless seconds.
Noone is proposing that PATFO blows their entire load on an average all-star, there's plenty of assets to get a good player or two while still keeping most of those picks.

[spurraider21]

Mate, Draymond Green was drafted as a SF and became one of the best post defenders ever. He became the third best player for the warriors. Sochan is developing nicely as that complimentary piece and looking better than Draymond did in his second year.
i mean, the best attribute sochan has going for him right now is that he's still very young. i dont know if thats a good thing or not

[scott]

Andy Bailey occasionally aggregates players based on the average score of 8 "catch all" metrics and in the latest update Sochan is 284th out of 332 qualifiers (minimum 400 minutes).

I get that he's only in his second season, is 20 and started the season playing out of position, but all the evidence to this point indicates a player somewhere between fringe rotation and replacement level.

Yeah, I'm not in the camp that "we already have our 4th best player on a contending team" in Sochan, but my comment was more that I don't think we have to immediately replace our PF. I would definitely like some better PF depth, but I'd also like to see what Sochan can do with a better team around him as the 5th best starter. I'm also not going to cry over spilled milk if one of our many draft picks end up supplanting him on the team.

[thiste]

https://twitter.com/JeffGSpursZone/status/1762206067507814709

[DAF86]

https://twitter.com/JeffGSpursZone/status/1762206067507814709

I'm leaning more and more towards this path. I don't know how realistic it is, though.

[scott]

Appreciate ya', Lil General!

[exstatic]

Last I heard, Cleveland was shopping Darius, not Donovan. That was also during an underperforming stretch by the Cavs. They’re now #2 in the East.

[spurraider21]

Last I heard, Cleveland was shopping Darius, not Donovan. That was also during an underperforming stretch by the Cavs. They’re now #2 in the East.
might not be a trade if he wants to hit free agency. he can decline his player option and be a FA in the 2025 offseason

[CGD]

Last I heard, Cleveland was shopping Darius, not Donovan. That was also during an underperforming stretch by the Cavs. They’re now #2 in the East.

I thought it was opposite given Mitchell’s contract situation, no? But things have definitely changed since.

[rankingtear]

Sorry but Sochan is not your 4th best player in a championship team. One of spurs priority is to actually find a starting PF/big to start along Wemby. Sochan is undersized, and get pushed/scored on by everyone taller than 6'9 in this league and guard any strong big Victor can't. And as a non shooter, he can't really stretccan't h the floor for Victor.

Could easily be, his defense is playoff proof and a perfect match for Victor. Two big lineup see less and less time the deeper you are in a playoff series, cause the good teams has great perimeter iso guys that render rim protection useless.

[Rubberducky]

Cleveland is going to offer him the extension this offseason. There has been complete silence on his side about extending with the Cavs ever since the trade happened. If he doesn’t, it’s expected that the Cavs are gonna try to trade him before next years trade deadline and it’ll be one of the years leading stories.

He’d have to agree to extend with the Spurs beforehand if that trade were to happen, which isn’t happening.

[gambit1990]

Murray could be a champion point guard as the third or fourth best player in the team. I just think we have our future third and fourth best player in a championship team in vassel and Sochan.
i agree with your first sentence.

your second sentence is driving off a cliff.

[gambit1990]

he's already locked into a 4 year extension which doesnt even kick in until next season
i meant blank check figuratively. he has a blank check on the court. he'll have the ball in his hands and can do whatever he wants with it.

[JPB]

Could easily be, his defense is playoff proof and a perfect match for Victor. Two big lineup see less and less time the deeper you are in a playoff series, cause the good teams has great perimeter iso guys that render rim protection useless.

Sochan has zero playoff games. And his defense has deteriorated too.

[JPB]

LeBron didn’t make the playoffs until his 3rd season. KD didn’t make the playoffs until his 3rd season. If you want another 15+ year run,well that takes time. What most of you are proposing is a 3-5 year bonfire that, when it burns out, leaves nothing to rebuild with.

they weren't ready like Wemby was and first of all, this is 2024. Lots of things have changed in the NBA these last 10 years. Players have control now, and much less patience. Wemby HATES to lose, passionately.

And it's not just about makng the POs but being somehow competitive, not just plain suck or tank as an organisation.

[RC_Drunkford]

Last I heard, Cleveland was shopping Darius, not Donovan. That was also during an underperforming stretch by the Cavs. They’re now #2 in the East.

reports are saying Donovan Mitchell is 100% gone once his contract expires. He doesn't want to play in Cleveland. At least that's what's being said behind the scenes.

[tbdog]

i agree with your first sentence.

your second sentence is driving off a cliff.

I am here to discuss.

[rankingtear]

Sochan has zero playoff games. And his defense has deteriorated too.

No shit but an iso is an iso regular season or playoffs. Why would his defense deteriorate.

[LeBowen]

Mitchell is a worse chucker than Trae while being a few tiers below Trae in playmaking department.
Hard pass unless it's a free agency signing with a discount.
He's also just as bad of a defender, despite being way more athletic.

Not to mention that getting Mitchell would mean Devin has to go.

[DAF86]

Mitchell is a worse chucker than Trae while being a few tiers below Trae in playmaking department.
Hard pass unless it's a free agency signing with a discount.
He's also just as bad of a defender, despite being way more athletic.

Not to mention that getting Mitchell would mean Devin has to go.

That's not what the stats indicate at all, tbh. Mitchell is more efficient, has a bigger impact on offense and is a net positive in defense. There's a reason he has had winning seasons on every team he has played.

Also, why getting Mitchell would mean Vassell has to go?

[manufan10]

1762505633935643013


"“I hope not. I hope this is the last time we see him in a Hawks uniform. I feel like his talent is being wasted, his prime is being wasted. Get healthy, get 100% correct whether that is in Atlanta or you know, fingers crossed, the San Antonio Spurs,” Cousins said during a recent conversation online with Rachel Nichols."

https://clutchpoints.com/spurs-news-demarcus-cousins-wants-trae-young-victor-wembanyama-team-up

1762281720978797020

1760319944334496098

[manufan10]

I'll be honest, it feels good that people are wanting to see all-star caliber players play with for the Spurs and with Wemby and are actively pushing it. Now I know how Lakers fans feel. :lol

[LeBowen]

That's not what the stats indicate at all, tbh.

Are you sure?


Mitchell is more efficient

His efficency has been on a steady decline since that ridiculous bubble series.
Last two first round exits were embarrassing. Just kept on chucking his team out of both series.


has a bigger impact on offense

Both him and Trae are streaky scorers. When their shot isn't falling, Trae is still an elite playmaker, while Mitchell just keeps chucking.
And Trae is better at drawing fouls.


net positive in defense

Most definitely not.
The entire reason why that Utah team failed was Gobert playing 1v5 on defense, with some help from O'Neale and Ingles.
Mitchell, Bogdanovic, Conley and Clarkson always got cooked.

He's a ridiculous athlete and should be an elite defender, but he's not even a positive on that end.
He might be better than Trae because he's more athletic, but still a guard that needs to be hidden.


There's a reason he has had winning seasons on every team he has played.

Yeah, he was never on a bad team.
I guess Wemby sucks.


Also, why getting Mitchell would mean Vassell has to go?

Because they're both shooting guards with questionable defense.
The only way it would work is if we stumble upon the next big thing in point forward role.
Otherwise you'd watch more of point Sochan.

Mitchell is a freak athlete that will be in for a rough awakening as soon as his athleticism goes.
And he'll be 28 before the next season start.
For me, the only upside of potentially getting him would be the fact that he'd come as a free agent.
But even then, he'd ask for like 50 million a year, I'm not sure you want to give that to a player who would be 32-33 at the end of his deal.

[SpursBills]

Are you sure?



His efficency has been on a steady decline since that ridiculous bubble series.
Last two first round exits were embarrassing. Just kept on chucking his team out of both series.



Both him and Trae are streaky scorers. When their shot isn't falling, Trae is still an elite playmaker, while Mitchell just keeps chucking.
And Trae is better at drawing fouls.



Most definitely not.
The entire reason why that Utah team failed was Gobert playing 1v5 on defense, with some help from O'Neale and Ingles.
Mitchell, Bogdanovic, Conley and Clarkson always got cooked.

He's a ridiculous athlete and should be an elite defender, but he's not even a positive on that end.
He might be better than Trae because he's more athletic, but still a guard that needs to be hidden.



Yeah, he was never on a bad team.
I guess Wemby sucks.



Because they're both shooting guards with questionable defense.
The only way it would work is if we stumble upon the next big thing in point forward role.
Otherwise you'd watch more of point Sochan.

Mitchell is a freak athlete that will be in for a rough awakening as soon as his athleticism goes.
And he'll be 28 before the next season start.
For me, the only upside of potentially getting him would be the fact that he'd come as a free agent.
But even then, he'd ask for like 50 million a year, I'm not sure you want to give that to a player who would be 32-33 at the end of his deal.

This season Donovan Mitchell has been an elite player and has been a defensive plus. This has been shown both in eye test and also corroborated by advanced stats as he is a top 10 player based on EPM and DARKO. Both also corroborate the fact that he has been a plus defender this season. Say what you want about him past seasons but for this season your statements are factually incorrect. While Garland was out he was also playing point guard for the cavs as they went on their big winning streak. Your point about giving a 50 million a year contract to a player in his early 30s is a legitimate concern, but you are incorrect in terms of his quality as a player compared to Trae Young especially this season.

[Kevin]

Doing more research on Young and laughing at people that don't want him on the Spurs.

Young is second in assists per game this season and averages more assists than Luka.

He's fourth in free throw attempts per game and is better at getting to the line than Jayson Tatum by a one attempt per game.

He's sixth in double doubles this season and has six more double doubles than Wemby.

But Young still is just not good enough to play second fiddle to Wemby. No way no how.

[Mitch Cumsteen]

Anyone wanting Trae Young on the Spurs should take a deep breath, take a very long look in the mirror, and then realize that your thought process is aligned with noted astrophysicist and philosopher extraordinaire Demarcus Cousins.

[manufan10]

Doing more research on Young and laughing at people that don't want him on the Spurs.

Young is second in assists per game this season and averages more assists than Luka.

He's fourth in free throw attempts per game and is better at getting to the line than Jayson Tatum by a one attempt per game.

He's sixth in double doubles this season and has six more double doubles than Wemby.

But Young still is just not good enough to play second fiddle to Wemby. No way no how.

1762492785330962672

[manufan10]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GHACPPIbEAAwvSm?format=png&name=900x900

[LeBowen]

Say what you want about him past seasons but for this season your statements are factually incorrect.

My bad about this season, I watched just a few Cavs games.
Still, it's all about the playoffs, we'll see if he keeps the defensive intensity and efficency there.


but you are incorrect in terms of his quality as a player compared to Trae Young especially this season

For me they're in the same tier.
I'd still rather have Trae because of his clearly better playmaking, age and lower salary even though he's also on a max deal.

(Just to be clear following part isn't about you, but some other posters.)

Some people in here tried to push the narrative of Trae being a coach killer and a bad teammate, but on the other hand you have well-documented Mitchell-Gobert feud and him not wanting to stay in neither Utah nor Cleveland.
Why would it be any different with the Spurs, another small market franchise?
Would a 28 year old player on supermax be willing to accept he's not the franchise player and that a 20 year old kid is better?

[RC_Drunkford]

Doing more research on Young and laughing at people that don't want him on the Spurs.

Young is second in assists per game this season and averages more assists than Luka.

He's fourth in free throw attempts per game and is better at getting to the line than Jayson Tatum by a one attempt per game.

He's sixth in double doubles this season and has six more double doubles than Wemby.

But Young still is just not good enough to play second fiddle to Wemby. No way no how.

He's also 11th in steals and has a better defensive rating than Dejounte Murray, Clint Capela, Cedi Osman, Maliki Branham, Doug McDermott and DeAndre Hunter

[RC_Drunkford]

Anyone wanting Trae Young on the Spurs should take a deep breath, take a very long look in the mirror, and then realize that your thought process is aligned with noted astrophysicist and philosopher extraordinaire Demarcus Cousins.

Anyone who thinks Tim Duncan is Top 5 all time should take a deep breath, take a very long look in the mirror, and then realize that your thought process is aligned with noted astrophysicist and philosopher extraordinaire Demarcus Cousins.

[JPB]

No shit but an iso is an iso regular season or playoffs. Why would his defense deteriorate.

Uh, no... that's the whole point. POs are another animal entirely, both in intensity and stakes... Everything is up one or two levels, that's where you start to lose a lot of people and really see what players are made of... As long as you're not play off tested, you can't claim anything about it.

[scott]

Some people in here tried to push the narrative of Trae being a coach killer and a bad teammate, but on the other hand you have well-documented Mitchell-Gobert feud and him not wanting to stay in neither Utah nor Cleveland.
Why would it be any different with the Spurs, another small market franchise?
Would a 28 year old player on supermax be willing to accept he's not the franchise player and that a 20 year old kid is better?

Really good points IMO. I think as fans we need to take into account that as a small market franchise we face an additional hurdle to attracting players. Not only do we need the means to acquire (either by trade or FA) players, they also have to want to be here. If Trae really WANTS to be here, then I think that is something that we should heavily take into consideration (though that alone isn't enough, of course).

[scott]

This probably isn't the best place for this - but I found this article on the Timberwolves cap situation interesting and perhaps insightful as to what caution needs to go into team construction.

https://www.spotrac.com/news/whats-next-minnesota-timberwolves-2205/

[rankingtear]

Doing more research on Young and laughing at people that don't want him on the Spurs.

Young is second in assists per game this season and averages more assists than Luka.

He's fourth in free throw attempts per game and is better at getting to the line than Jayson Tatum by a one attempt per game.

He's sixth in double doubles this season and has six more double doubles than Wemby.

But Young still is just not good enough to play second fiddle to Wemby. No way no how.

You just discovered what a heliocentric guard is.

[spurraider21]

He's also 11th in steals and has a better defensive rating than Dejounte Murray, Clint Capela, Cedi Osman, Maliki Branham, Doug McDermott and DeAndre Hunter
i really dont like defensive rating tbh, its like 80% a team stat. its why you'll find a lot of guys on the same teams clumped together, more or less.

[Spursfanfromafar]

This probably isn't the best place for this - but I found this article on the Timberwolves cap situation interesting and perhaps insightful as to what caution needs to go into team construction.

https://www.spotrac.com/news/whats-next-minnesota-timberwolves-2205/

They aren't going to pay 38 million $ in luxury taxes (the least heavy scenario). And that means they will have to cut one of their key player outside of letting go of Anderson & Morris. I suspect it will be either a trade to give up Jaden McDaniels or giving up on Naz Reid. McDaniels is way overpaid for a defensive specialist and a connector on offense. He isn't optimal for the Spurs at his salary, despite his obvious skillset being a match for the Spurs' needs (strong wing defender). But Naz Reid can be had if the Spurs can pull a trade for Zollins elsewhere.

[MannyIsGod]

Young has to sign an extension this coming year in order to retain Supermax eligibility, right? He's not getting all nba this year since he's now hurt, he didn't get it last year so its my understanding that it has to be signed next year right?

[DAF86]

Are you sure?



His efficency has been on a steady decline since that ridiculous bubble series.
Last two first round exits were embarrassing. Just kept on chucking his team out of both series.



Both him and Trae are streaky scorers. When their shot isn't falling, Trae is still an elite playmaker, while Mitchell just keeps chucking.
And Trae is better at drawing fouls.



Most definitely not.
The entire reason why that Utah team failed was Gobert playing 1v5 on defense, with some help from O'Neale and Ingles.
Mitchell, Bogdanovic, Conley and Clarkson always got cooked.

He's a ridiculous athlete and should be an elite defender, but he's not even a positive on that end.
He might be better than Trae because he's more athletic, but still a guard that needs to be hidden.



Yeah, he was never on a bad team.
I guess Wemby sucks.



Because they're both shooting guards with questionable defense.
The only way it would work is if we stumble upon the next big thing in point forward role.
Otherwise you'd watch more of point Sochan.

Mitchell is a freak athlete that will be in for a rough awakening as soon as his athleticism goes.
And he'll be 28 before the next season start.
For me, the only upside of potentially getting him would be the fact that he'd come as a free agent.
But even then, he'd ask for like 50 million a year, I'm not sure you want to give that to a player who would be 32-33 at the end of his deal.

The stuff you are saying seems to just be your personal observation, while everything I told you is backed up by stats and advanced metrics.

Also, Mitchell has played his best as a PG in Garland's absence with the Cavs.

[scott]

Young has to sign an extension this coming year in order to retain Supermax eligibility, right? He's not getting it this year since he's now hurt, he didn't get it last year so its my understanding that it has to be signed next year right?

I don't want to speak for Chinook, who is very well versed on these things, but it appears between the two of us we've narrowed in on the premise that Trae IS eligible for an extension this off-season, but he is NOT eligible for a SuperMax until next off-season (regardless of the qualifying criteria, which he has not met). So, if Trae wants a SuperMax, he'll need to make an All-NBA team next year and sign it with ATL and then he will not be eligible to be traded for one full year until after signing the DPE.

At the end of the day, I don't see a SuperMax in Trae's future. My guess is that he'll sign some kind of 30% extension that expires after his 10th season, when he'll be able to sign a 35% max contract based on tenure.

[LeBowen]

They aren't going to pay 38 million $ in luxury taxes (the least heavy scenario). And that means they will have to cut one of their key player outside of letting go of Anderson & Morris. I suspect it will be either a trade to give up Jaden McDaniels or giving up on Naz Reid. McDaniels is way overpaid for a defensive specialist and a connector on offense. He isn't optimal for the Spurs at his salary, despite his obvious skillset being a match for the Spurs' needs (strong wing defender). But Naz Reid can be had if the Spurs can pull a trade for Zollins elsewhere.

Damn, I didn't realize McDaniels got that much money.
Would be a great fit, but I don't think he's worth the contract.

On the other hand, Reid should be on top of PATFO's list.
Perfect fit next to Wemby and could even play some minutes as backup C.
If there's a chance, they should go for him.

But I still think Timberwolves will try to get rid of KAT if they fail again in the playoffs.

[MannyIsGod]

I don't want to speak for Chinook (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=37557), who is very well versed on these things, but it appears between the two of us we've narrowed in on the premise that Trae IS eligible for an extension this off-season, but he is NOT eligible for a SuperMax until next off-season (regardless of the qualifying criteria, which he has not met). So, if Trae wants a SuperMax, he'll need to make an All-NBA team next year and sign it with ATL and then he will not be eligible to be traded for one full year until after signing the DPE.

At the end of the day, I don't see a SuperMax in Trae's future. My guess is that he'll sign some kind of 30% extension that expires after his 10th season, when he'll be able to sign a 35% max contract based on tenure.

I see my error, I thought it was 7-9 years of service but its 8 or 9. So yeah, his previous all-NBA will be off the books by the time he meets the years service. Really do wonder if he'll ask out then.

[scott]

I do think the Wolves cap situation does put a bit of a damper of the idea of swapping KAT for Trae, as it just leaves them in the same situation.

[spurraider21]

I don't want to speak for Chinook (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=37557), who is very well versed on these things, but it appears between the two of us we've narrowed in on the premise that Trae IS eligible for an extension this off-season, but he is NOT eligible for a SuperMax until next off-season (regardless of the qualifying criteria, which he has not met). So, if Trae wants a SuperMax, he'll need to make an All-NBA team next year and sign it with ATL and then he will not be eligible to be traded for one full year until after signing the DPE.

At the end of the day, I don't see a SuperMax in Trae's future. My guess is that he'll sign some kind of 30% extension that expires after his 10th season, when he'll be able to sign a 35% max contract based on tenure.
this is the most likely scenario if he's unsure about staying in atlanta

[Kevin]

I do think the Wolves cap situation does put a bit of a damper of the idea of swapping KAT for Trae, as it just leaves them in the same situation.

That article just makes me want to trade away Dev and Keldon for Trea since their combined price tag next season will about the same as Young.

[spurraider21]

That article just makes me want to trade away Dev and Keldon for Trea since their combined price tag next season will about the same as Young.
keldon + collins gets it done

[Russ]

Haven't followed it that carefully.

Is there any chance Memphis would trade Ja Morant?

(Or would the Spurs even consider him?)

[spurraider21]

Haven't followed it that carefully.

Is there any chance Memphis would trade Ja Morant?

(Or would the Spurs even consider him?)
no and no

[onechance87]

keldon + collins gets it done

doubt atl wants them

[FuzzyLumpkins]

doubt atl wants them

they're great for tanking. they've proven that.

[baseline bum]

Really good points IMO. I think as fans we need to take into account that as a small market franchise we face an additional hurdle to attracting players. Not only do we need the means to acquire (either by trade or FA) players, they also have to want to be here. If Trae really WANTS to be here, then I think that is something that we should heavily take into consideration (though that alone isn't enough, of course).

Yeah the idea that he talks about being a Spurs fan as a kid. How the hell would we not be getting Trae's best here? Especially next to Victor where he can pump up his assist numbers to the moon and have the media fawning over what a great and unselfish PG he is for feeding the big man.

[mo7888]

Yeah the idea that he talks about being a Spurs fan as a kid. How the hell would we not be getting Trae's best here? Especially next to Victor where he can pump up his assist numbers to the moon and have the media fawning over what a great and unselfish PG he is for feeding the big man.

Even though I'm not on the Trae bandwagon, I gotta say, that's a legitimate point.

[baseline bum]

Even though I'm not on the Trae bandwagon, I gotta say, that's a legitimate point.

I guess I think whoever gets the best player usually wins an NBA trade. If Atlanta doesn't dump Young to outright tank there's probably a 25% chance at best either the 25 ATL pick lands you Cooper Flagg or Ace Bailey or the 26 ATL swap lands you AJ Dybantsa or Cameron Boozer (or whoever are #1 and #2 at the time of each respective draft). So I think the odds are pretty decent that the Spurs would win a trade of Keldon + Collins + 25 ATL pick + 27 ATL pick and tear up the 26 swap for Young. Unless they can convince Atlanta to take Graham back instead of Keldon, even better. Though they'd have to agree to that by July 1st or they'd tear up Graham's deal that date. Though if Atlanta wants the Spurs 24 pick I'm keeping their 25 unprotected first. The 27 pick is a wildcard though.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I am curious to see what the 'Spurs market' looks like moving forward. The NBA elites like James and Durant have welcomed him to the Pantheon so to speak already and Adam Silver seems eager to promote Wemby as much as possible. Media generally loves him. Wemby himself as embraced the exposure.

[spurraider21]

doubt atl wants them
the critical pieces going back would be draft picks, not the players

[onechance87]

the critical pieces going back would be draft picks, not the players

Rebuilding teams want expiring contracts.Not trash players with stupid contracts giving to them by there stupid gm.

[spurraider21]

Rebuilding teams want expiring contracts.Not trash players with stupid contracts giving to them by there stupid gm.
rebuilding teams take on bad contracts for picks all the time

[scott]

the critical pieces going back would be draft picks, not the players

If Atlanta is going to enter a hard rebuild phase by getting their picks back, then they'll have no problem taking Keldon and Collins. They can probably move Keldon for some additional future (albeit less valuable, like lotto protected FRP or SRPs) draft capital.

However, if Atlanta views it more like a Toronto-type soft retooling, then sending them Collins is going to require more draft capital their way, in my opinion. Surely, ATL's public and negotiating position will be this one.

This may end up being a critical sticking point, since Collins is kind of required to make salaries work (although I can get it to work with Keldon + Devonte).

[mo7888]

I guess I think whoever gets the best player usually wins an NBA trade. If Atlanta doesn't dump Young to outright tank there's probably a 25% chance at best either the 25 ATL pick lands you Cooper Flagg or Ace Bailey or the 26 ATL swap lands you AJ Dybantsa or Cameron Boozer (or whoever are #1 and #2 at the time of each respective draft). So I think the odds are pretty decent that the Spurs would win a trade of Keldon + Collins + 25 ATL pick + 27 ATL pick and tear up the 26 swap for Young. Unless they can convince Atlanta to take Graham back instead of Keldon, even better. Though they'd have to agree to that by July 1st or they'd tear up Graham's deal that date. Though if Atlanta wants the Spurs 24 pick I'm keeping their 25 unprotected first. The 27 pick is a wildcard though.

I'm not sure I'd give that much, but it's closer to reality than some of the trades I've seen on here. I'd probably have to think long and hard if that's on the table.

*and no, I'm not bending over to see 'long and hard' lol

[LeBowen]

My ideal scenario would be Keldon+Collins+Hawks picks for Trae, one more first rounder for Naz Reid and a SF in the draft.
I'd also offer a short deal to Tobias Harris, I don't think Sixers are keeping him.
Something like 50/2. Maybe 60/3.

Trae/Tre
Devin/veteran shooter
rookie/Jeremy
Tobias/Reid
Wemby/Barlow

Reid and Jeremy could slide a position down or Tobias could move up with Reid starting ahead of rookie.
Wouldn't need a veteran shooter if we get the Raptors pick, but I don't think it happens.

Wesley, Branham, Cissoko and Champagnie as third stringers. Bassey too if he recovers.

Easily a play-in team with no own picks traded away.

[scott]

25% is the absolutely best case scenario for us holding those picks, but as others have mentioned, Atlanta isn't going to just tank in order to let us get a chance at more high end talent. The only way they are tanking is if they get their picks back. You basically need some sort of catastrophic injury to happen for us to get top odds in 25/26, and I'm not sadistic enough to root for that.

[mo7888]

25% is the absolutely best case scenario for us holding those picks, but as others have mentioned, Atlanta isn't going to just tank in order to let us get a chance at more high end talent. The only way they are tanking is if they get their picks back. You basically need some sort of catastrophic injury to happen for us to get top odds in 25/26, and I'm not sadistic enough to root for that.

That's the best case for CF. I hope we don't trade or hold based on that hopeful outcome. I think a top 10 outcome or contrasting an Atl trade with other potential trades is how it should be viewed.

[CGD]

Much is being made about the lakers waiting until the summer so they can throw 3 picks at ATL. Makes me wonder what WOULD be the Lakers best offer for Trae this summer?

[Mugen]

Much is being made about the lakers waiting until the summer so they can throw 3 picks at ATL. Makes me wonder what WOULD be the Lakers best offer for Trae this summer?

Combination of Reaves/Hachimura/D'Lo + all of the 1st rounders they'd have available.

Whatever it is, the Spurs could easily beat it IF they wanted.

[CGD]

Combination of Reaves/Hachimura/D'Lo + all of the 1st rounders they'd have available.

Whatever it is, the Spurs could easily beat it IF they wanted.

I was thinking more picks. Looks like it all hinges on whether the PELS opt to take the Lakers’ 2024 or 2025 FRP (they have an option at one but not both). I assume giving the “crappiness” of this draft that the PELs defer to 2025, which means Lakers can likely max out at sending out:

2024 FRP
2029 FRP
2030 FRP (swap)
2031 FRP

Not bad but they probably want some picks sooner.

[exstatic]

They aren't going to pay 38 million $ in luxury taxes (the least heavy scenario). And that means they will have to cut one of their key player outside of letting go of Anderson & Morris. I suspect it will be either a trade to give up Jaden McDaniels or giving up on Naz Reid. McDaniels is way overpaid for a defensive specialist and a connector on offense. He isn't optimal for the Spurs at his salary, despite his obvious skillset being a match for the Spurs' needs (strong wing defender). But Naz Reid can be had if the Spurs can pull a trade for Zollins elsewhere.

Jaden is MUCH more of a need filler than Naz. A defender/connector who shoots 36% from downtown? Yes, please.

[exstatic]

Haven't followed it that carefully.

Is there any chance Memphis would trade Ja Morant?

(Or would the Spurs even consider him?)

After being suspended, he went and did the same stupid shit again for a second suspension. The next one, which isn’t at unlikely because he’s stupid, would be for a year. Waaaay too much baggage.

[spurraider21]

Jaden is MUCH more of a need filler than Naz. A defender/connector who shoots 36% from downtown? Yes, please.
the sad state of the spurs when you look at somebody shooting 36% from three (below average in the nba now), and thinking its a good figure that warrants a "Yes, please"

[DAF86]

I guess I think whoever gets the best player usually wins an NBA trade. If Atlanta doesn't dump Young to outright tank there's probably a 25% chance at best either the 25 ATL pick lands you Cooper Flagg or Ace Bailey or the 26 ATL swap lands you AJ Dybantsa or Cameron Boozer (or whoever are #1 and #2 at the time of each respective draft). So I think the odds are pretty decent that the Spurs would win a trade of Keldon + Collins + 25 ATL pick + 27 ATL pick and tear up the 26 swap for Young. Unless they can convince Atlanta to take Graham back instead of Keldon, even better. Though they'd have to agree to that by July 1st or they'd tear up Graham's deal that date. Though if Atlanta wants the Spurs 24 pick I'm keeping their 25 unprotected first. The 27 pick is a wildcard though.

I can be bought into the idea of trading for Young, but no way I'm giving any of the Atlanta picks back.

[exstatic]

the sad state of the spurs when you look at somebody shooting 36% from three (below average in the nba now), and thinking its a good figure that warrants a "Yes, please"

He makes $2M more than Keldon, and is a much better fit. He also shot 40% from long last year, and would get open looks playing off Wemby.

[spurraider21]

He makes $2M more than Keldon, and is a much better fit. He also shot 40% from long last year, and would get open looks playing off Wemby.
i like mcdaniels

[Frenchfred]

Yeah the idea that he talks about being a Spurs fan as a kid. How the hell would we not be getting Trae's best here? Especially next to Victor where he can pump up his assist numbers to the moon and have the media fawning over what a great and unselfish PG he is for feeding the big man.

And then ask for an extension for 35% of the cap, which with Wemby’s contract and Vassel pretty much guarantees that the rest of the team will be crap

[scott]

And then ask for an extension for 35% of the cap, which with Wemby’s contract and Vassel pretty much guarantees that the rest of the team will be crap

Just sharing some facts: as discussed, Trae won't be able to ask for a 35% extension from the Spurs until he is a 10-year vet. Until then, if he did get a new 30% extension, as discussed here (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=303321&p=11032696&viewfull=1#post11032696), the three of Wemby-Trae-Vassell would be less than 60% of the projected cap until Wemby's extension kicks in the 2027-28 season. If that happened, and Devin was performing at a level to earn a 140% extension, the three of them would combine for between 70-75% of the projected cap for two seasons until Trae's extension expired. By comparison, the Celtics Top-4 salaries (Tatum-Brown-Holiday-Kristaps) account for 101% of this year's cap and 109% of next year's. The Nuggets big 3 (Jokic-Murray-MPJ) are 84% of this year's cap, 87% of next.

70-75% is manageable. Whether or not Trae-Wemby-Vassell are the right players is another question...

[baseline bum]

I can be bought into the idea of trading for Young, but no way I'm giving any of the Atlanta picks back.

Branham and Zollins, get it done RC

[offset formation]

Just sharing some facts: as discussed, Trae won't be able to ask for a 35% extension from the Spurs until he is a 10-year vet. Until then, if he did get a new 30% extension, as discussed here (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=303321&p=11032696&viewfull=1#post11032696), the three of Wemby-Trae-Vassell would be less than 60% of the projected cap until Wemby's extension kicks in the 2027-28 season. If that happened, and Devin was performing at a level to earn a 140% extension, the three of them would combine for between 70-75% of the projected cap for two seasons until Trae's extension expired. By comparison, the Celtics Top-4 salaries (Tatum-Brown-Holiday-Kristaps) account for 101% of this year's cap and 109% of next year's. The Nuggets big 3 (Jokic-Murray-MPJ) are 84% of this year's cap, 87% of next.

70-75% is manageable. Whether or not Trae-Wemby-Vassell are the right players is another question...

Good follow up post.

[baseline bum]

I'm not sure I'd give that much, but it's closer to reality than some of the trades I've seen on here. I'd probably have to think long and hard if that's on the table.

*and no, I'm not bending over to see 'long and hard' lol

Can't see getting Young for anything less than that. I'd love to swap the Atlanta '27 pick or the Atlanta '26 swap with the Chicago '25 pick but don't think the Hawks would go for it.

[CorrectCrusader]

I just want Wemby with another good player, is that so much to ask for?

[DAF86]

Branham and Zollins, get it done RC

I know we would need to give up draft capital, but I would rather give our own picks than the Atlanta ones. The thing is, for the Hawks to accept any kind of Trae trade with the Spurs, the least they would probably ask for is all their picks back. So yeah, I guess I'm saying I wouldn't trade for Young. I'd rather have the picks.

[CorrectCrusader]

I know we would need to give up draft capital, but I would rather give our own picks than the Atlanta ones. The thing is, for the Hawks to accept any kind of Trae trade with the Spurs, the least they would probably ask for is all their picks back. So yeah, I guess I'm saying I wouldn't trade for Young. I'd rather have the picks.

Why would you rather have the picks?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKZJdaiJF84

[DAF86]

Why would you rather have the picks?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKZJdaiJF84

The thing here is, I don't know if the boat is good enough to get me where I want to go. I'd rather check the multiple unrestricted mistery boxes I have, in search of plane tickets, tbh.

[objective]

I watched ATL 1st half against Utah and even though ATL was up a good amount from the start and won big ....

Dejounte was terrible in the first half. Looked like a Spur out there, brick city and bad unconnecting lob passes

[onechance87]

I watched ATL 1st half against Utah and even though ATL was up a good amount from the start and won big ....

Dejounte was terrible in the first half. Looked like a Spur out there, brick city and bad unconnecting lob passes

Team seems more focused and want to win tho when trae not playing.Heard trae is not well liked,Could be interesting if they look
good with out him.

[baseline bum]

The thing here is, I don't know if the boat is good enough to get me where I want to go. I'd rather check the multiple unrestricted mistery boxes I have, in search of plane tickets, tbh.

This team is so trash and so devoid of talent, plus it's not like those are going to be really high picks as long as Young is still there in Atlanta. Victor is so much better than we expected and it just sucks seeing him held back by having no one who can get him good shots on this team even when the opportunity is obvious. Trae Young ain't missing Wemby on lobs two plays in a row in the fourth like Tre Jones did tonight. I don't think the Spurs can screw around having Victor so frustrated like he was tonight, but that's the plan if it's just run this shit team back with another rookie or two and hope Young gets injured and one of those Atlanta picks turns into Cooper Flagg or AJ Dybantsa.

[mo7888]

This team is so trash and so devoid of talent, plus it's not like those are going to be really high picks as long as Young is still there in Atlanta. Victor is so much better than we expected and it just sucks seeing him held back by having no one who can get him good shots on this team even when the opportunity is obvious. Trae Young ain't missing Wemby on lobs two plays in a row in the fourth like Tre Jones did tonight. I don't think the Spurs can screw around having Victor so frustrated like he was tonight, but that's the plan if it's just run this shit team back with another rookie or two and hope Young gets injured and one of those Atlanta picks turns into Cooper Flagg or AJ Dybantsa.

Atlanta is bottom 10 in the league with Trae and no draft assets. I think their pick will be in that range with or without him on the team. When I look at trading for Trae i try and look at who we'd be competing with and what they can offer. A package of Cha, Atlanta 25, Spurs 25, and our 27, with Collins and Graham would be very hard to beat. 27 could even be essentially a swap in their favor if we needed to sweeten it. That leaves us Keldon and other draft assets to make a subsequent deal.

[exstatic]

This team is so trash and so devoid of talent, plus it's not like those are going to be really high picks as long as Young is still there in Atlanta. Victor is so much better than we expected and it just sucks seeing him held back by having no one who can get him good shots on this team even when the opportunity is obvious. Trae Young ain't missing Wemby on lobs two plays in a row in the fourth like Tre Jones did tonight. I don't think the Spurs can screw around having Victor so frustrated like he was tonight, but that's the plan if it's just run this shit team back with another rookie or two and hope Young gets injured and one of those Atlanta picks turns into Cooper Flagg or AJ Dybantsa.

Supposedly, the Lakers can put together a package of 3 FRPs and a swap. ATL pulls the trigger. Now, what do you think of those picks, with Trae in LA?

People here act like the only options are to trade everything, or nearly everything for Trae, or just onboard two top 10 rookies. You can onboard the rookies, and go after rangy wing 3 and Ds like Jaden McDaniels or Herb Jones from teams that haven’t done anything, yet have enormous payrolls. You can go and get a rebounder, and a placeholder PG like Brogdon. There are tons of options between throw everything at Trae, and only make draft picks.

[Kevin]

Supposedly, the Lakers can put together a package of 3 FRPs and a swap. ATL pulls the trigger. Now, what do you think of those picks, with Trae in LA?

People here act like the only options are to trade everything, or nearly everything for Trae, or just onboard two top 10 rookies. You can onboard the rookies, and go after rangy wing 3 and Ds like Jaden McDaniels or Herb Jones from teams that haven’t done anything, yet have enormous payrolls. You can go and get a rebounder, and a placeholder PG like Brogdon. There are tons of options between throw everything at Trae, and only make draft picks.

Adding more role players who are making legit money is worst possible option. Our cap space is quickly drying up without a star to show for it.

Also how do you plan on rostering all these rookies? One or two picks this year with potentially five first round picks next year plus the role players you just added in addition to to what's already on the team.

[thiste]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4Fkcc9Wmw8

[exstatic]

Adding more role players who are making legit money is worst possible option. Our cap space is quickly drying up without a star to show for it.

Also how do you plan on rostering all these rookies? One or two picks this year with potentially five first round picks next year plus the role players you just added in addition to to what's already on the team.

Everyone on the team won’t stay on the team. Minnesota is going to be second Apron next year with only 9 players. Offer to trade Jalen McDaniels for the CHA pick, Devonte, who they can cut and save $10M, Malaki, and Champagnie. They get apron relief, a FRP, and two young CHEAP rotation players. We get a true 3 and D guy, and two roster openings.

[Kevin]

Everyone on the team won’t stay on the team. Minnesota is going to be second Apron next year with only 9 players. Offer to trade Jalen McDaniels for the CHA pick, Devonte, who they can cut and save $10M, Malaki, and Champagnie. They get apron relief, a FRP, and two young CHEAP rotation players. We get a true 3 and D guy, and two roster openings.

You're not getting him with the fake Hornets pick and cutting Mal kinda proves that first round picks outside the top five are overrated assets. Also I think if Graham gets dealt his contact becomes guaranteed

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Everyone on the team won’t stay on the team. Minnesota is going to be second Apron next year with only 9 players. Offer to trade Jalen McDaniels for the CHA pick, Devonte, who they can cut and save $10M, Malaki, and Champagnie. They get apron relief, a FRP, and two young CHEAP rotation players. We get a true 3 and D guy, and two roster openings.

Can’t do that with Devonte’s contract - that loophole doesn’t exist anymore. Spurs can only save Minnesota money by absorbing contracts into cap space but so can many other teams.

Teams won’t give up good assets just for cap relief anymore. There are more creative ways. For example, the Lakers could have saved a ton of money by trading a small contract or two at the deadline but decided not to do so and stayed over the tax, also missing out on some $20 million from redistribution. Teams and owners bathe in money nowadays and they won’t compromise just for savings anymore. Perhaps the odd crazy owner would push for it but it’d be an outlier.

[baseline bum]

Supposedly, the Lakers can put together a package of 3 FRPs and a swap. ATL pulls the trigger. Now, what do you think of those picks, with Trae in LA?

People here act like the only options are to trade everything, or nearly everything for Trae, or just onboard two top 10 rookies. You can onboard the rookies, and go after rangy wing 3 and Ds like Jaden McDaniels or Herb Jones from teams that haven’t done anything, yet have enormous payrolls. You can go and get a rebounder, and a placeholder PG like Brogdon. There are tons of options between throw everything at Trae, and only make draft picks.

I think Atlanta isn't dumping Trae to tank without their picks. It would be moronic.

[exstatic]

I think Atlanta isn't dumping Trae to tank without their picks. It would be moronic.

Many on this board think we have to give everything to avoid losing him to LA. The plain fact is that he has either an ETO or a opt out in 2026, and they might lose him for nothing if they don’t trade him. Ttading him this summer means that the team gets two years of Trae. If it drags on longer, his value plummets as his contract time shortens. It’s better to get 3 crap LA picks and a swap then nothing.

[baseline bum]

Many on this board think we have to give everything to avoid losing him to LA. The plain fact is that he has either an ETO or a opt out in 2026, and they might lose him for nothing if they don’t trade him. Ttading him this summer means that the team gets two years of Trae. If it drags on longer, his value plummets as his contract time shortens. It’s better to get 3 crap LA picks and a swap then nothing.

Those are some real rose colored glasses you're wearing thinking they're going to trade Trae to tank immediately to get the Spurs three top 5 picks.

[manufan10]

Supposedly, the Lakers can put together a package of 3 FRPs and a swap. ATL pulls the trigger. Now, what do you think of those picks, with Trae in LA?

Why would ATL make that trade? Those picks wouldn't be worth it if they're trading Trae. At least with the Spurs they can get their own picks back so they can legitimately try and tank. If they trade Young, their best move would be to trade him to the Spurs for their own picks so they can have more control over where those picks land.



Spurs are in a win/win situation here. If Atlanta decides to keep Trae: Spurs win with three FRPs. If Atlanta decides to trade Trae to another team: Spurs win, because that should make ATL worse and give them potential lottery picks. If Atlanta trade Trae to the Spurs: Spurs win because they get one of the top creators/passers in the game who many feel pairs perfectly with Wemby.

[mo7888]

Why would ATL make that trade? Those picks wouldn't be worth it if they're trading Trae. At least with the Spurs they can get their own picks back so they can legitimately try and tank. If they trade Young, their best move would be to trade him to the Spurs for their own picks so they can have more control over where those picks land.



Spurs are in a win/win situation here. If Atlanta decides to keep Trae: Spurs win with three FRPs. If Atlanta decides to trade Trae to another team: Spurs win, because that should make ATL worse and give them potential lottery picks. If Atlanta trade Trae to the Spurs: Spurs win because they get one of the top creators/passers in the game who many feel pairs perfectly with Wemby.

If the Spurs decide they don't want to give back the Atl package, then whose offering more than LA for 2 years of Trae?

[exstatic]

Why would ATL make that trade? Those picks wouldn't be worth it if they're trading Trae. At least with the Spurs they can get their own picks back so they can legitimately try and tank. If they trade Young, their best move would be to trade him to the Spurs for their own picks so they can have more control over where those picks land.



Spurs are in a win/win situation here. If Atlanta decides to keep Trae: Spurs win with three FRPs. If Atlanta decides to trade Trae to another team: Spurs win, because that should make ATL worse and give them potential lottery picks. If Atlanta trade Trae to the Spurs: Spurs win because they get one of the top creators/passers in the game who many feel pairs perfectly with Wemby.

He has the option to walk in 26. We got as much as we did for DJ, because he had two years left. Trae will have two years left this summer. They’ll get less if they trade him later,because the receiving team has less contract control.

[spurraider21]

I know we would need to give up draft capital, but I would rather give our own picks than the Atlanta ones. The thing is, for the Hawks to accept any kind of Trae trade with the Spurs, the least they would probably ask for is all their picks back. So yeah, I guess I'm saying I wouldn't trade for Young. I'd rather have the picks.
you cant be getting by far the best player in the trade and also be picky about which picks you are or arent willing to part with

[spurraider21]

Many on this board think we have to give everything to avoid losing him to LA. The plain fact is that he has either an ETO or a opt out in 2026, and they might lose him for nothing if they don’t trade him. Ttading him this summer means that the team gets two years of Trae. If it drags on longer, his value plummets as his contract time shortens. It’s better to get 3 crap LA picks and a swap then nothing.
AD is still playing very well and is just about to turn 31. Trae is still 25, and the lakers, being who they are and where they are, have a track record of attracting surrounding talent. the value of lakers picks would be pretty bad if you send them a young Trae. right now all those future laker picks seem great because thats a post lebron and old anthony davis lakers. but if its still peak Trae + old AD... its a different floor

[scott]

Supposedly, the Lakers can put together a package of 3 FRPs and a swap. ATL pulls the trigger. Now, what do you think of those picks, with Trae in LA?

People here act like the only options are to trade everything, or nearly everything for Trae, or just onboard two top 10 rookies. You can onboard the rookies, and go after rangy wing 3 and Ds like Jaden McDaniels or Herb Jones from teams that haven’t done anything, yet have enormous payrolls. You can go and get a rebounder, and a placeholder PG like Brogdon. There are tons of options between throw everything at Trae, and only make draft picks.

No one thinks that, or has even suggested it, you just keep repeating it.

[baseline bum]

Why would ATL make that trade? Those picks wouldn't be worth it if they're trading Trae. At least with the Spurs they can get their own picks back so they can legitimately try and tank. If they trade Young, their best move would be to trade him to the Spurs for their own picks so they can have more control over where those picks land.



Spurs are in a win/win situation here. If Atlanta decides to keep Trae: Spurs win with three FRPs. If Atlanta decides to trade Trae to another team: Spurs win, because that should make ATL worse and give them potential lottery picks. If Atlanta trade Trae to the Spurs: Spurs win because they get one of the top creators/passers in the game who many feel pairs perfectly with Wemby.

I think this is definitely the worst case of the three since it's probably picks around #10 in 25 and 26. Who knows in 27. And it's two picks and a swap, not three. Maybe the 26 swap moves them up from say #16 to #10 if they haven't made any big moves to infuse talent into this roster by then if Trae stays in Atlanta.

[Kevin]

Also people keep saying the Hawks have to take back Zollins so salaries match but that isn't true. Spurs will have roughly 26M in cap space so Keldon (20M) for Young (49M) works because the Spurs can absorb Young salary minus Keldon's salary.

Spurs might have to attach a pick to include Zollins and the fake Hornets pick wont do. It would probably cost the Bulls or Raps pick.

[Teamduncan21]

Supposedly, the Lakers can put together a package of 3 FRPs and a swap. ATL pulls the trigger. Now, what do you think of those picks, with Trae in LA?

People here act like the only options are to trade everything, or nearly everything for Trae, or just onboard two top 10 rookies. You can onboard the rookies, and go after rangy wing 3 and Ds like Jaden McDaniels or Herb Jones from teams that haven’t done anything, yet have enormous payrolls. You can go and get a rebounder, and a placeholder PG like Brogdon. There are tons of options between throw everything at Trae, and only make draft picks.

If Trae leaves then the pick might become quite high

[Kevin]

If Trae leaves then the pick might become quite high

And that's exactly why Atlanta will only deal Trae to the Spurs. This isnt hard. The Hawks will not just surrender three golden tickets to the Spurs. Keep dreaming.

[exstatic]

And that's exactly why Atlanta will only deal Trae to the Spurs. This isnt hard. The Hawks will not just surrender three golden tickets to the Spurs. Keep dreaming.

People here don’t seem to understand what leverage is.

[Kevin]

People here don’t seem to understand what leverage is.

Atlanta will just hold on to Young if nothing else but you can still dream of drafting Flagg and Boozer.

[SOMA Spur]

I'd like to see the Spurs not monkey around with this. Give ATL a great offer on draft night for Trea and get the deal done. Not really worried about LA, more likely some unknown team (Dame/Milwaukee) lurking ready to swoop in now or at the trade deadline. I'd offer 4 firsts + 2 swaps + Keldon and filler. Basically the picks are the Dejounte package + Chicago. I also threw in a 24 swap (our #8 for their #11) to light a fire under their ass to get the deal done this draft night. Its a lot but its going to take a lot to get another All-star on our team. Plus I don't really see this as offering up everything. We'd still have our own firsts, a ton of seconds to grease future deals, Cap space, plus our team might actually be good, attracting some Vets to come play with us (remember those days). If we catch some luck on draft night we could select Risacher with our top three pick, Knecht at #11, and trade for Trea Young. Yes please.

[z0sa]

^ If we get Trae we just surround he and Wemby with three point shooters and profit. Guys like Sochan who clog up the paint and aren't even very good should be out - our drafting should be all about IQ and shooting/defense.

We'd win 70 games if PATFO built the roster around those two according to the modern game's principles (while maintaining/re-imagining portions of The System/beautiful game).

Realistically, I don't see PATFO building the roster as such but instead to their own twisted ends. One undeniable fact, however, is our scoring is honestly pathetic. If we are going to keep a bunch of these 'tards around Wemby, they definitely need to be spoonfed by the Trae Youngs of the world - of which there's not too many, obviously.

[mo7888]

I'd like to see the Spurs not monkey around with this. Give ATL a great offer on draft night for Trea and get the deal done. Not really worried about LA, more likely some unknown team (Dame/Milwaukee) lurking ready to swoop in now or at the trade deadline. I'd offer 4 firsts + 2 swaps + Keldon and filler. Basically the picks are the Dejounte package + Chicago. I also threw in a 24 swap (our #8 for their #11) to light a fire under their ass to get the deal done this draft night. Its a lot but its going to take a lot to get another All-star on our team. Plus I don't really see this as offering up everything. We'd still have our own firsts, a ton of seconds to grease future deals, Cap space, plus our team might actually be good, attracting some Vets to come play with us (remember those days). If we catch some luck on draft night we could select Risacher with our top three pick, Knecht at #11, and trade for Trea Young. Yes please.

I'm glad you're not in charge... Nobody in the League is going to pay that much.. that values him over KD and DM trade packages

[Kevin]

Hawks get all their picks back plus the Spurs include another pick for taking back Zollins. I really hope the Raps pick covey's at 7 and the Hawks pick ends up at 10. Do a pick swap for taking back Zollins.

[rjv]

at this point, i feel as if young has become somewhat of a metaphor, or symbol, for many spurs fans.

[baseline bum]

People here don’t seem to understand what leverage is.

You don't seem to understand there is no point to Atlanta tanking if they can't control their draft, and getting some mid picks from the Lakers doesn't soften the blow for them.

[baseline bum]

I'd like to see the Spurs not monkey around with this. Give ATL a great offer on draft night for Trea and get the deal done. Not really worried about LA, more likely some unknown team (Dame/Milwaukee) lurking ready to swoop in now or at the trade deadline. I'd offer 4 firsts + 2 swaps + Keldon and filler. Basically the picks are the Dejounte package + Chicago. I also threw in a 24 swap (our #8 for their #11) to light a fire under their ass to get the deal done this draft night. Its a lot but its going to take a lot to get another All-star on our team. Plus I don't really see this as offering up everything. We'd still have our own firsts, a ton of seconds to grease future deals, Cap space, plus our team might actually be good, attracting some Vets to come play with us (remember those days). If we catch some luck on draft night we could select Risacher with our top three pick, Knecht at #11, and trade for Trea Young. Yes please.

That's way too much.

[SOMA Spur]

I'm glad you're not in charge... Nobody in the League is going to pay that much.. that values him over KD and DM trade packages

I think it's comparable to those deals. And you might be right, this would probably be the best offer on the table, but that's why ATL would take it. If they are not blown away by an offer now, they're not going to trade him.

[manufan10]

If the Spurs decide they don't want to give back the Atl package, then whose offering more than LA for 2 years of Trae?

Again, why would Atlanta even trade him if it wasn't to gain their own picks back? Future picks does them no good now, and it delays their rebuild. Trading Trae to the Lakers makes their own draft picks better for some other team.

[mo7888]

I think it's comparable to those deals. And you might be right, this would probably be the best offer on the table, but that's why ATL would take it. If they are not blown away by an offer now, they're not going to trade him.

They would absolutely take that... We'd be foolish to offer that much...

I don't see how it's comparable to the KD or DM deals because these picks are projected to be around the top 10 and those are projected to be in the mid 20's.

I'm not hating on Trae either. I might even be willing to offer more than any other team out there, but I'm not going overboard..

[manufan10]

He has the option to walk in 26. We got as much as we did for DJ, because he had two years left. Trae will have two years left this summer. They’ll get less if they trade him later,because the receiving team has less contract control.

Trae hasn't even expressed an interest in leaving the Hawks. The Hawks wouldn't be in any hurry in this scenario to get rid of him. Why would they trade away their star for future picks? It does them no good, and that will only benefit the Spurs.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

That's way too much.

Why? What offer do you think beats LAL’s Reaves, Hachimura, Russell, 3 firsts and a swap? There’ll be other teams bidding too and we should also not presume that Atlanta only want a picks package, they’re very likely to look for good players as the meat of the deal because they’ll not want to tank.

I think a lot of the people who advocate for a Trae deal wouldn’t have the stomach for the cost should it actually happen.

[manufan10]

They would absolutely take that... We'd be foolish to offer that much...

I don't see how it's comparable to the KD or DM deals because these picks are projected to be around the top 10 and those are projected to be in the mid 20's.

I'm not hating on Trae either. I might even be willing to offer more than any other team out there, but I'm not going overboard..

I think that's where the majority of the fans who are wanting this trade are at. I think baseline bum's offer is about where I would be at as well.

[baseline bum]

Why? What offer do you think beats LAL’s Reaves, Hachimura, Russell, 3 firsts and a swap? There’ll be other teams bidding too and we should also not presume that Atlanta only want a picks package, they’re very likely to look for good players as the meat of the deal because they’ll not want to tank.

I think a lot of the people who advocate for a Trae deal wouldn’t have the stomach for the cost should it actually happen.

Spurs giving Atlanta back their 25 and 27 picks, tearing up the 26 pick swap, and Keldon + Zollins absolutely murders what the Lakers can offer since it lets the Hawks tank for top 5 picks instead of getting picks in the 20s from the Lakers. No need to add two more picks and two swaps for our offer to look better than LA's. LA can't offer Atlanta chances to get in on the Cooper Flagg lottery nor the AJ Dybantsa/Cam Boozer lottery.

[spurraider21]

Spurs giving Atlanta back their 25 and 27 picks, tearing up the 26 pick swap, and Keldon + Zollins absolutely murders what the Lakers can offer since it lets the Hawks tank for top 5 picks instead of getting picks in the 20s from the Lakers. No need to add two more picks and two swaps for our offer to look better than LA's.
if you really want to sweeten it you could make the 2027 pick the better b/n spurs and hawks picks (likely doesnt make a difference, but is a sweetener). or if push came to shove throw in the charlotte pick

[Ignazzz]

Why? What offer do you think beats LAL’s Reaves, Hachimura, Russell, 3 firsts and a swap? There’ll be other teams bidding too and we should also not presume that Atlanta only want a picks package, they’re very likely to look for good players as the meat of the deal because they’ll not want to tank.

I think a lot of the people who advocate for a Trae deal wouldn’t have the stomach for the cost should it actually happen.

yes Please
for Harden

[baseline bum]

if you really want to sweeten it you could make the 2027 pick the better b/n spurs and hawks picks (likely doesnt make a difference, but is a sweetener). or if push came to shove throw in the charlotte pick

They can have the Charlotte fake first, not interested in giving them an unprotected swap.

[scott]

Why? What offer do you think beats LAL’s Reaves, Hachimura, Russell, 3 firsts and a swap? There’ll be other teams bidding too and we should also not presume that Atlanta only want a picks package, they’re very likely to look for good players as the meat of the deal because they’ll not want to tank.

I think a lot of the people who advocate for a Trae deal wouldn’t have the stomach for the cost should it actually happen.

For ATL, what beats that package from LA is simply keeping Trae. To anyone's knowledge, he hasn't asked out nor is Atlanta looking to move him. We only have 3rd hand reports that the Spurs asked about him.

[exstatic]

Atlanta will just hold on to Young if nothing else but you can still dream of drafting Flagg and Boozer.

And lose him in 2026, for nothing.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Spurs giving Atlanta back their 25 and 27 picks, tearing up the 26 pick swap, and Keldon + Zollins absolutely murders what the Lakers can offer since it lets the Hawks tank for top 5 picks instead of getting picks in the 20s from the Lakers. No need to add two more picks and two swaps for our offer to look better than LA's. LA can't offer Atlanta chances to get in on the Cooper Flagg lottery nor the AJ Dybantsa/Cam Boozer lottery.

So they’ll trade Trae for less than what they paid for Murray? I’m going to disagree there, they’d be much better off keeping him or pursuing a Towns for Trae type of trade. We’ll see.

[exstatic]

For ATL, what beats that package from LA is simply keeping Trae. To anyone's knowledge, he hasn't asked out nor is Atlanta looking to move him. We only have 3rd hand reports that the Spurs asked about him.

Great. They can keep him, and stay on the playin/lottery merry go round.

[JeffDuncan]

Hawks get all their picks back plus the Spurs include another pick for taking back Zollins. I really hope the Raps pick covey's at 7 and the Hawks pick ends up at 10. Do a pick swap for taking back Zollins.


Good heavens, you don’t give up any kind of usable draft pick just to get rid of a player you don’t want. Ridiculous.

It’s foolish to try to dictate both sides of a possible trade. What the Hawks might accept depends on their plans, and only they know that.

The Spurs should simply start out by offering the Hawks the picks the Spurs got in the DJM trade. Listen to what the Hawks say about it, and go from there. It’s safe to take for granted that the Hawks would be interested in regaining their draft picks. Otherwise, even the Hawks, themselves, may not know at this point what it would take to produce a handshake.

Beg pardon for the inappropriate attempt at being realistic in such a thread.

[baseline bum]

So they’ll trade Trae for less than what they paid for Murray? I’m going to disagree there, they’d be much better off keeping him or pursuing a Towns for Trae type of trade. We’ll see.

They can have the fake first from Charlotte too if they want. Not the Spurs fault they badly overpaid for Murray. Hachimura is a replacement level player, it's abundantly clear the Hawks have already shown they wanted no part of Russell, and Reaves plus some crap picks is nowhere near as valuable as being able to control their drafts and tank when there look to be franchise guys in consecutive years. Towns won't win them shit, Minnesota didn't go anywhere until Ant.

[DAF86]

^ If we get Trae we just surround he and Wemby with three point shooters and profit. Guys like Sochan who clog up the paint and aren't even very good should be out - our drafting should be all about IQ and shooting/defense.

We'd win 70 games if PATFO built the roster around those two according to the modern game's principles (while maintaining/re-imagining portions of The System/beautiful game).

Realistically, I don't see PATFO building the roster as such but instead to their own twisted ends. One undeniable fact, however, is our scoring is honestly pathetic. If we are going to keep a bunch of these 'tards around Wemby, they definitely need to be spoonfed by the Trae Youngs of the world - of which there's not too many, obviously.

-Keldon, Collins and give Atlanta their picks back for Trae.
-Sign Miles Bridges in free agency (I don't know if this is even possible or how much of a pipe dream it is).
-Draft Risacher and Sheppard.

Trae
Vassell
Risacher
Miles Bridges
Wemby

Sheppard
Champagnie
McDermott (resign for cheap, if not try to get a veteran 3pt shooter)
Sochan
Barlow

Third stringers: Tre, Wesley, Branham, Mamu, Bassey

I don't know how good this would actually be.

[exstatic]

-Keldon, Collins and give Atlanta their picks back for Trae.
-Sign Miles Bridges in free agency (I don't know if this is even possible or how much of a pipe dream it is).
-Draft Risacher and Sheppard.

Trae
Vassell
Risacher
Miles Bridges
Wemby

Sheppard
Champagnie
McDermott (resign for cheap, if not try to get a veteran 3pt shooter)
Sochan
Barlow

Third stringers: Tre, Wesley, Branham, Mamu, Bassey

I don't know how good this would actually be.

This was done for years, but the second the Spurs leveraged it with Brent Barry, the league outlawed it. A traded player now cannot re-sign with the trading team for a year.

[spurraider21]

They can have the fake first from Charlotte too if they want. Not the Spurs fault they badly overpaid for Murray. Hachimura is a replacement level player, it's abundantly clear the Hawks have already shown they wanted no part of Russell, and Reaves plus some crap picks is nowhere near as valuable as being able to control their drafts and tank when there look to be franchise guys in consecutive years. Towns won't win them shit, Minnesota didn't go anywhere until Ant.
Trae also doesnt make sense with Minnesota considering what Edwards is becoming, and their defensive identity. The potential Towns/Trae swap was always predicated on Minnesota faceplanting again like they did last year, but they've really turned a corner, and Conley has been perfect for them

[SpursBills]

I'd be curious how the Hawks look in the next couple weeks. They looked pretty good last 2 games albeit small sample size against very questionable competition. But their defense has certainly looked much better.

1) If they actually start looking better without him, Atlanta might have a lot more stomach to trade Trae this summer
2) If they actually start looking better without him, does that at all change your opinion of how he would benefit this team?

[Kevin]

I'd be curious how the Hawks look in the next couple weeks. They looked pretty good last 2 games albeit small sample size against very questionable competition. But their defense has certainly looked much better.

1) If they actually start looking better without him, Atlanta might have a lot more stomach to trade Trae this summer
2) If they actually start looking better without him, does that at all change your opinion of how he would benefit this team?

DJM and Young are a horrible fit together on offense which negatively impacts the entire team. It doesn't factor into how much I value Young as he and Wemby would be perfect on offense and Wemby projects to be a GOAT level defender who can offset Young's defensive woes. Its such a no brainer.

[scott]

This was done for years, but the second the Spurs leveraged it with Brent Barry, the league outlawed it. A traded player now cannot re-sign with the trading team for a year.

Wrong, again, as per usual. The restriction is that a team may not resign a player they traded who was then bought-out, waived or released (like Brent Barry was). There is nothing preventing the Spurs from resigning FA Doug McDermott this summer. It's the same situation as the discussion of the Spurs potentially going after Jak this past offseason.

Here is a cool website where you can look up stuff like this before posting: www.google.com

[scott]

Q101 of the CBA Faq for this who like actually knowing what they are talking about before posting: https://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q101

[spurraider21]

DJM and Young are a horrible fit together on offense which negatively impacts the entire team. It doesn't factor into how much I value Young as he and Wemby would be perfect on offense and Wemby projects to be a GOAT level defender who can offset Young's defensive woes. Its such a no brainer.
Young was either unable or unwilling to learn to play off-ball more, which is something Curry perfected while still maintaining "lead guard" status. Alas, Young/Murray was doomed.

[scott]

Also, for all the people worried about Trae's trade kicker... trade bonuses are paid by the team trading away the player. Nothing for the Spurs to worry about there, other than Atlanta may seek additional compensation since they'll have to eat what I calculate to be about $12MM, which is not insignificant.

https://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q99

The trade kicker does create an issue though, in that the salary + the kicker counts as incoming salary for the Spurs for matching purposes, but only the salary counts as outgoing salary (if I am reading Q100 correctly). With that said, I could pretty easily make it work in the Spotrac trade machine, I'm not sure if they have Kicker logic built in though. I might send Keith Smith a tweet and ask him.

Edit: Had my kicker calcs wrong on the first post

[spurraider21]

-Keldon, Collins and give Atlanta their picks back for Trae.
-Sign Miles Bridges in free agency (I don't know if this is even possible or how much of a pipe dream it is).
-Draft Risacher and Sheppard.

Trae
Vassell
Risacher
Miles Bridges
Wemby

Sheppard
Champagnie
McDermott (resign for cheap, if not try to get a veteran 3pt shooter)
Sochan
Barlow

Third stringers: Tre, Wesley, Branham, Mamu, Bassey

I don't know how good this would actually be.
Cissoko is still on the roster unless they cut him despite all his guarantees

I dont think they bring Mamu back. They seem to have no interest in playing him despite having no other natural PF on the roster outside Sochan

if the spurs are able to secure Trae while the only picks they give back are just undoing the Murray trade (not sure if you meant to include the Charlotte pick as part of that or not, but either way), then i feel like its pretty hard to pass that up, since in that scenario the spurs still have all of their own picks, the excess pick from Toronto which they'd use for Sheppard, an excess pick on the way from Chicago, and 2028 and 2030 swaps with boston/dallas... while already having their big duo that they need to build around in addition to vassell.

bridges on paper would be great, but yeah, i have no clue how any nba team is going to approach him, let alone the "muh culture" spurs

[exstatic]

Wrong, again, as per usual. The restriction is that a team may not resign a player they traded who was then bought-out, waived or released (like Brent Barry was). There is nothing preventing the Spurs from resigning FA Doug McDermott this summer. It's the same situation as the discussion of the Spurs potentially going after Jak this past offseason.

Here is a cool website where you can look up stuff like this before posting: www.google.com

https://www.sportskeeda.com/basketball/why-la-lakers-unable-sign-stanley-johnson-waivers-despite-free-agent-understanding-re-signing-rule-trades

[CGD]

Also people keep saying the Hawks have to take back Zollins so salaries match but that isn't true. Spurs will have roughly 26M in cap space so Keldon (20M) for Young (49M) works because the Spurs can absorb Young salary minus Keldon's salary.

Spurs might have to attach a pick to include Zollins and the fake Hornets pick wont do. It would probably cost the Bulls or Raps pick.

Really, i didnt appreciate it was that high. Thought that it was half that even after cutting Graham, Bassey, Champaigne, but i could be using a crappy tool.

If Trae wants to leave, I think theyd take Collins without the Spurs needing to add more. If fact, the best thing that could happen for those wanting Trae in San Antonio, if for the player to start exerting pressure on the Hawks. They're gonna be in a crappy position of having to keep the unhappy player, or sending him to a team that wont be able to given them the picks in return to start their rebuild immediately.

I think this gets it done: Keldon/Collins + Bulls FRP + least favorable of Spurs/Hawks 2025 + least favorable of Spurs/Hawks 2027

[Death In June]

I would like to see them hang onto the ‘25 Hawks pick, but offer their own ‘25 pick, Chicagos ‘25, the Hawks ‘26 and undo the swap. Throw in KJ or DV.

[Chinook]

The Spurs can sign McD during this season if released. They can sign him this summer after his contract is up.

[scott]

https://www.sportskeeda.com/basketball/why-la-lakers-unable-sign-stanley-johnson-waivers-despite-free-agent-understanding-re-signing-rule-trades

I know you are terrible with things like basic reading comprehension and critical analysis, but try to follow along:

Stanley Johnson was traded in August 2022 to the Jazz. The Jazz then waived him. That means that the Lakers could not resign Johnson until the one-year anniversary of the trade or July 1 following the end of the contract that was waived.




A team cannot reacquire a player it traded away during the same season (a season for this purpose being defined as starting on the first day of the regular season and ending on the last day of the Finals). If the player was traded between seasons (i.e., from the first day after the Finals to the last day prior to the start of the next regular season), it cannot reacquire the player prior to the end of the next season. If he is waived by his new team, then he cannot re-sign with his original team until the one-year anniversary of the trade, or until the July 1 following the end of his contract, whichever comes first6. However, if a team trades a player's draft rights, it can reacquire the player during the same season.

Your dedication to being completely owned over easily verifiable information is amazing.

[exstatic]

I know you are terrible with things like basic reading comprehension and critical analysis, but try to follow along:

Stanley Johnson was traded in August 2022 to the Jazz. The Jazz then waived him. That means that the Lakers could not resign Johnson until the one-year anniversary of the trade or July 1 following the end of the contract that was waived.


[/LIST]
Your dedication to being completely owned over easily verifiable information is amazing.

Thank you for posting this. I received some bad information here at ST.

[mo7888]

Again, why would Atlanta even trade him if it wasn't to gain their own picks back? Future picks does them no good now, and it delays their rebuild. Trading Trae to the Lakers makes their own draft picks better for some other team.

Because their own picks are a loss leader at this point. Trae is worth what he's worth and whatever that is now, it'll be less next year and they know it. For them, it comes down to 'is it better to keep him and pay the supermax and build around a guy that has them as the 10th worse team in the league with no draft assets or move him for good draft assets and start over?' Then they have to consider how that equation changes when Trae gets disgruntled (and that will happen)? How much more will his stock drop then? They are in a precarious spot.

[RC_Drunkford]

why are people arguing with exstatic ? The guy doesn't even know the NBA standings and just talks out of his ass all the time

[baseline bum]

Because their own picks are a loss leader at this point. Trae is worth what he's worth and whatever that is now, it'll be less next year and they know it. For them, it comes down to 'is it better to keep him and pay the supermax and build around a guy that has them as the 10th worse team in the league with no draft assets or move him for good draft assets and start over?' Then they have to consider how that equation changes when Trae gets disgruntled (and that will happen)? How much more will his stock drop then? They are in a precarious spot.

A Trae + AD Lakers team will have crap picks though, even if LeBron retires. I don't see why the Hawks should be so eager to tank just to make the Spurs picks better when all they get is late firsts and crap matching salaries out of the deal.

[mo7888]

A Trae + AD Lakers team will have crap picks though, even if LeBron retires. I don't see why the Hawks should be so eager to tank just to make the Spurs picks better when all they get is late firsts and crap matching salaries out of the deal.

I agree, but i don't think its a matter of them tanking or not. That team with Trae is bottom 10? Without Trae that team is bottom 5? That's not a ton of difference either way. So would they prefer to be bottom 5 with the lakers picks or bottom 10 with no picks?

I'm not predicting what they will do or stating an opinion on what they should do. I'm just saying they're in a precarious situation...

[TimmyBuckets]

Spurs got plenty of options to get Trae. It’s gonna be the Hawks’ ego that doesn’t get it done. Even Hawks fans know Spurs have the most to give and don’t want ego getting in the way of a good deal. Get Trae and then get a 3/D wing from trades or from the draft and we’re set. With Trae, we’re a play-in team minimum next year.

[baseline bum]

I agree, but i don't think its a matter of them tanking or not. That team with Trae is bottom 10? Without Trae that team is bottom 5? That's not a ton of difference either way. So would they prefer to be bottom 5 with the lakers picks or bottom 10 with no picks?

I'm not predicting what they will do or stating an opinion on what they should do. I'm just saying they're in a precarious situation...

A crap picks for Trae Young deal will always be there for them though, so no reason for them to rush into it. The urgency would be for them to get their pick(s) back from the Spurs this summer so they could tank for Cooper Flagg or Ace Bailey.

[mo7888]

A crap picks for Trae Young deal will always be there for them though, so no reason for them to rush into it. The urgency would be for them to get their pick(s) back from the Spurs this summer so they could tank for Cooper Flagg or Ace Bailey.

Agreed, and that urgency gives us leverage..

[LeBowen]

Imo, either Spurs give Hawks their picks back or Trae goes somewhere else.

There's 0% chance Hawks would accept the embarrassment of Spurs having both their picks and Trae, even if it meant they get a weaker deal somewhere else.
On the other hand, noone can compete with the Spurs if PATFO actually wants Trae.

As already said many times, Hawks don't have an incentive to tank without owning their picks, meaning that the chance of getting a top3 pick are extremely low.

[Pauleta14]

Forget Trae, let's go for Bridges or Brogdon

[z0sa]

A possible scenario I see happening if we get Trae, thanks to :pop:

- spurs trade quite a few assets for Trae
- Pop forces Trae to work within The System and play offball WAAAAY too often (like how he has spent entire games not running a play for Vic)
- Trae doesn't do well, and underachieves
- PATFO sniffers talk out of their ass about how they were so right about Trae being a low IQ team killer!

[mo7888]

Imo, either Spurs give Hawks their picks back or Trae goes somewhere else.

There's 0% chance Hawks would accept the embarrassment of Spurs having both their picks and Trae, even if it meant they get a weaker deal somewhere else.
On the other hand, noone can compete with the Spurs if PATFO actually wants Trae.

As already said many times, Hawks don't have an incentive to tank without owning their picks, meaning that the chance of getting a top3 pick are extremely low.

Trae going elsewhere for a weaker deal os probably a best case scenario for us..

[manufan10]

https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/426723985_787133236782405_8797218825295157438_n.jp g?stp=dst-jpg_p843x403&_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=dd5e9f&_nc_ohc=Rprh3l7dVzsAX_O4RL1&_nc_ht=scontent-dfw5-1.xx&oh=00_AfBibnt8GY2y5-gk0QVSqGbBRnN3tLTiV15IykTfZ2lEAg&oe=65E68A46

[Frenchfred]

Why? What offer do you think beats LAL’s Reaves, Hachimura, Russell, 3 firsts and a swap? There’ll be other teams bidding too and we should also not presume that Atlanta only want a picks package, they’re very likely to look for good players as the meat of the deal because they’ll not want to tank.

I think a lot of the people who advocate for a Trae deal wouldn’t have the stomach for the cost should it actually happen.

Any pick from LA is going to land in the 10 to 20 region, hard to rebuild with any of that. Interesting picks would have to be in 2030 and after. Do you think that Atlanta is going to spend 5 years in purgatory hoping to have high picks in 2030 and after? That's a lot of years to be shitty for the fans, bad for business.

[pad300]

Ok, for the record, I am putting my take on this season and what to do out here, for everyone to scream insults about ...

Apologies, this is a wall of text, but I have given you headings so you can skip bits (I wish this board supported spoiler tags).

Are we tanking?
Yes, we are tanking this season.

I don’t believe for a second that the coaching staff spent all training camp looking at Point Sochan and thought: “Yeah, this’ll work in the NBA regular season!” Obviously, Point Sochan was going to lose you games, and they put it out there anyways. Then they went to Branham... When the obvious best PG on the roster is Tre Jones... The coaching staff are professionals and they are not that dumb.

“This draft is terrible, why would we be tanking?” Because this year, with Wemby in his rookie season, we can effectively tank our way into the top 5 lottery spots (provided Pop is willing to be enough of a goofball with the lineups and the defence...). Next year, with Wemby acclimated to the league, we won’t be able to get into the top 10 lottery spots (unless Wemby gets hurt).

What to do with the roster?
I think the biggest hole in the roster is at PG. We need an NBA quality starter (which means they need to be a triple threat – drive, pass and shoot the 3). I do not think there is anyone in the draft who we could rely on to be good enough as a rookie to fill that role (although there are definitely some that I think could grow into the role). Thus, we need to acquire such a PG, either a stop gap (2-4 years) or as a long term solution (7+ years). We can do so either as a free agent ,by trade, or by internal growth.

The options that I see:
1) Hope Tre Jones learns to shoot the 3 in the offseason.
IMO, this is a terrible option. He’s had that as a homework assignment in the offseason for 3 years so far, and it hasn’t worked yet... So I don’t think this is a good option.

2) Trade with the Hawks, either for DJ Murray or Trae Young. I don’t think this is a good option (either case), as the Hawks are going to insist on bending us over a table in any deal, due to the first DJ trade going so badly for them... and I don’t think that getting either of them puts us over the top. Thus we need to preserve some ammo (and the Hawks won't let us do that, even if they have to take a worse deal, because it would look so bad on their organization).

Aside: Basketball Philosophy
Both Trae and DJ are both Heliocentric guards (Trae significantly more so), and IMO, with Wemby on the team, I believe that you want the offense to focus through him, rather than someone else. I think the team would actually be best served with a PG who’s a game manager – gets the team up the floor and into the set (then doing whatever is required : cut, shoot/space from the perimeter, set pick, whatever), only calling his own number often enough to keep his attacking threat alive and respected.

The second philosophical question that I would ask, is “Is a long-term contender better off with an A+ and an A level players, or an A+ and two B+’s?”. We have the A+ guy in Wemby. Is he better off with a single A level running mate (Trae for example) or a pair of B+ guys? Duncan was an A+ with 2 B+ guys (Manu and Parker). Lebron + AD only resulted in 1 ring. Luka and Kyrie isn’t getting it done in Dallas. Giannis got it done with Khris and Jrue. It obviously depends on the players, but I the evidence leans towards the 3 man model. I think that makes Trae’s contract an issue; given the Spurs dislike of the lux tax, it locks you into the 2 man model...
End Aside


DJ vs Trae
As mentioned, I think ATL will only trade with us (after the first DJ trade), if it seems a rip-off in their favour. Given that, I think I would actually prefer to trade for DJ rather than Trae. He’ll be cheaper. For example, turning 25 and 27 into swaps (with us getting the better of the picks) would give them 2 firsts (their asking price). Going for Trae will (IMO of course) result in the Hawks insisting we go all in, and I don’t want to do that for a guy who a) will be a defensive liability, and b) might not fit with Wemby. To expand on b); what if Trae wants to be them man? As PG, and having the bigger contract for the next several years, Trae could force the team to be Heliocentric around him, even with Wemby on the team. A that point, we’d have to dump him and I believe it would be at a huge loss... Yes, Trae is implying all the right things now, but he has been a locker room issue for the Hawks. I also suspect he won’t be happy being traded, as I suspect he wants the DPE that he can only get from ATL Finally, Trae has never not been the focus of the team he’s on. Can he do it (personality wise)? Can he do it effectively? It requires a whole different mindset, that he has never had to bring to the table. DJ has been a #2 guy (both with Trae and with Demar/LMA)...


3) Free Agent: Tyus Jones
Ok, Tyus isn’t a sexy option, but I do think he’s the best option. He’s a qualitative upgrade over Tre, because he is a willing and capable 3 pt shooter (50% more volume 6.3 vs 4.2 shots/40 min) and much higher percentage (42.6% vs 27.7%). Which makes him an NBA quality starter. He is a game manager type, as referenced above in philosophy). He’s demonstrated he can be am effective starter with 2 teams now (Washington, and Memphis when Ja Morant was suspended for 25 games, Tyus was starting PG... with a better win % than what they put up with Ja playing). Getting him burns none of our draft capital (and probably a minimum of cap space), and I suspect we can get him for $80/4 yrs or less, which is a good to great contract for a starter level guard...

[DAF86]

I'm constantly flip-flopping over this Trae Young trade. My core tells me this is a bad idea, then I watch the shitshows that are the games and I get on board.

At the end of the day, the goal of Wemby's tenure in San Antonio is to build a championship level team, not "just be good". Trae Young is a flawed star, and the higher we get to the top, the more evident it will become. I don't think it is smart to trade 4 picks that have more than a 50/50 chances of, at least two of them, being lottery picks, just to get a player that will probably prove to be the team's achilles heel when championship level ball is required.

[spurraider21]

I'm constantly flip-flopping over this Trae Young trade. My core tells me this is a bad idea, then I watch the shitshows that are the games and I get on board.

At the end of the day, the goal of Wemby's tenure in San Antonio is to build a championship level team, not "just be good". Trae Young is a flawed star, and the higher we get to the top, the more evident it will become. I don't think it is smart to trade 4 picks that have more than a 50/50 chances of, at least two of them, being lottery picks, just to get a player that will probably prove to be the team's achilles heel when championship level ball is required.
the extra picks are great but they're house money. we already have our nuclear weapon. the idea of the tank was to accrue as many picks as possible so you have all the lottery picks possible. say we didnt land wemby and we instead took scoot or miller. ok, now we still need a lot more high caliber pieces, so those extra picks are necessary. some of those may bust. but we already cut in line by doing literally a 1 year tank and coming away with the golden goose of all golden geese

if you can pull off a trade for a young all star, borderline all nba caliber PG who offensively meshes very well with your nuclear weapon while still having all of your own FRPs, and even still holding an extra or 2 (in addition to holding some future swaps), its hard to pass up tbh

now if ATL is unreasonable as to price, then you tell them to fuck off

[DAF86]

the extra picks are great but they're house money. we already have our nuclear weapon. the idea of the tank was to accrue as many picks as possible so you have all the lottery picks possible. say we didnt land wemby and we instead took scoot or miller. ok, now we still need a lot more high caliber pieces, so those extra picks are necessary. some of those may bust. but we already cut in line by doing literally a 1 year tank and coming away with the golden goose of all golden geese

if you can pull off a trade for a young all star, borderline all nba caliber PG who offensively meshes very well with your nuclear weapon while still having all of your own FRPs, and even still holding an extra or 2 (in addition to holding some future swaps), its hard to pass up tbh

now if ATL is unreasonable as to price, then you tell them to fuck off

If this was a Donovan Mitchell we were talking about, I'll do it in a hearbeat. Trae Young, I don't know. I fear he might become unplayable on a championship series. That elite opposing teams will target him relentlessly untill it is obvious that he can't be part of a championship team.

[scott]

If this was a Donovan Mitchell we were talking about, I'll do it in a hearbeat. Trae Young, I don't know. I fear he might become unplayable on a championship series. That elite opposing teams will target him relentlessly untill it is obvious that he can't be part of a championship team.

Super valid... but the list of young all star PGs who are available is small, the list of young all star PGs without critical flaws is smaller. You can get away with it so long as you build the rest of the roster to fit around the main pieces (Wemby, Trae/Whoever) instead of just inserting them into whatever clusterfuck of a roster you already have. Not entire sure this FO is up to that task.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I don't see how the Hawks can trade away talent to other teams without their draft picks. If they trade away DJM or Young they are unlikely to improve the team in the short term with what they get in return. The more they suck the better their pick and swap become.

There is no upside for them going elsewhere and there is for us. Their third alternative is they can ride the mediocrity treadmill until their players leave in FA. Spurs have more leverage here than the typical negotiation.

[CorrectCrusader]

If the Hawks don't trade Trae. It's highly likely they trade Dejounte and attempt to retool around Trae.
They will NOT tank when they don't have their picks.

[rankingtear]

DJM and Young are a horrible fit together on offense which negatively impacts the entire team. It doesn't factor into how much I value Young as he and Wemby would be perfect on offense and Wemby projects to be a GOAT level defender who can offset Young's defensive woes. Its such a no brainer.

It is concerning that DJ and Young are that awful. Typically pairing a heliocentric player with another ballhandler always works. It is not a perfect pairing, Wemby at his peak won't need that much playmaking from Young, we see good offensive bigs thrive of limited playmaking in favor of off ball ability and/or defense. Jokic-Murray, Embiid-Maxey, Embiid-Butler, Zinger-Brown, Giannis-Middleton. With an off guard you can build versatility on offense and with a ballhandling wing versatility on defense. These are the two ideal pairings. It is always Wemby can cover for young on defense and young can throw lobs at wemby, repeated every time this two is discussed but has that ever worked. You are introducing 2 things that are exploitable in a playoff series, pick and roll heavy offense and a targetable/non switchable weak link. This is a problem that would only get worse as the years pass, cause the age of Lebron/KD has 6'8+ kids dribbling and shooting like guards. The 3 + D players are now 3 + D + dribble players. The offensive explosion and the height of guards getting bigger every season. The handoff offense that does not require elite ballhandlers. The future does not favor Trae and his value would be depreciated every season, years before Wemby peak. We are already seeing it now with the sharp decline of the ATL team, they can no longer hide him effectively on defense.

[poopbox]

If this was a Donovan Mitchell we were talking about, I'll do it in a hearbeat. Trae Young, I don't know. I fear he might become unplayable on a championship series. That elite opposing teams will target him relentlessly untill it is obvious that he can't be part of a championship team.

And they are not going to attack Mitchell ?

Mitchell lost to the Nuggets cause he couldn't stop Murray from going for 40 every other game.

Brunson smoked him last year where the knicks won 3 of their 4 games by 10 or more.

I don't know who told you that Mitchell wasn't a terrible defender, but they lied to you. Mitchell is a TERRIBLE defender. He played with a multi time DPOY in Utah and he STILL couldn't stop Murray from 40 piecing him out the playoffs.

Hilariously enough the Knicks could have traded their assets for Mitchell...didn't...and then smoked him in the playoffs :lol

[Pauleta14]

pad300 ...

Tyus Jones is the 5th worst defenive guard in the NBA

What we'd win in scoring on his brother we'd lose in defense (and Tre is already not a defensive gem)

I agree on most of your other points tho

DJ seems more fit, cheaper and already Spurs compatible when too many doubt on Trae, he won't be as ball dominant either and waaaayyy better defender (when he wants to)

Trae has one advantage tho, he has links to Wemby via their peronnal coache (talks could be happening)

[BackHome]

I don’t see us making any more trades with Atlanta as we fleeced them with the Murray trade which has not worked out for them at all. Also the price fir Trae is going to be way higher then what they gave us for Murray and I am not willing to pay that.

[pad300]

Pauleta14

I think Tyus Jones's defensive shortcomings are at least somewhat situational. When playing with Memphis and Minnesota, his average DRtg was 112 (over 8 years, varying between 110 and 114 year to year). In Washington it's 122 so far this year. Similarly with DPBM, he was negative in his rookie year, and again this year in Washington (-0.6), but the other 7 years of his career, he rates as a positive. I don't actually find the regression in Washington surprising: Jordan Poole as a defensive partner and basically squat for rim protection behind him... Also, Tre is not doing much (if at all) better than Tyus this year, DRtg 120 and DBPM -0.5 (and career DRTG 118, DBPM -0.5), so I don't expect Tyus to be a defensive downgrade (although he won't be as much of an upgrade as DJ would be).

PS Trae Young, Career DRTG 118 and Career DBPM -2.2

[Pauleta14]

My point about Trae links to Victor via their personnal coach is that those 2 pobably know more than us if they are compatible.

If anything happens it'll be 100% bc Vic and Trae talked about the idea on their side

[DAF86]

And they are not going to attack Mitchell ?

Mitchell lost to the Nuggets cause he couldn't stop Murray from going for 40 every other game.

Brunson smoked him last year where the knicks won 3 of their 4 games by 10 or more.

I don't know who told you that Mitchell wasn't a terrible defender, but they lied to you. Mitchell is a TERRIBLE defender. He played with a multi time DPOY in Utah and he STILL couldn't stop Murray from 40 piecing him out the playoffs.

Hilariously enough the Knicks could have traded their assets for Mitchell...didn't...and then smoked him in the playoffs :lol

Advanced metrics and eye test. I'm not saying he's prime Bruce Bowen, he's way better than Trae Young, though.

[poopbox]

Advanced metrics and eye test. I'm not saying he's prime Bruce Bowen, he's way better than Trae Young, though.

Advanced metrics and eye test don't stand up to real life performance. Trae has been good enough to be the best player on a team that made a conference finals. Mitchell hasn't.

Mitchell also borderline refused to give the ball to Gobert at times when they were in Utah, so I most definitely don't want him anywhere near Wemby, after literally seeing him refuse to consistently pass the ball to another big for years. Yuck.

And I don't know what "eye test" you could possibly be referring to when it comes to Mitchell. He literally turned Brunson into a household name. Almost nobody knew who Brunson was on a national scale until he cooked Mitchell in the playoffs when Luka was hurt. Imagine losing to the mavs...in the playoffs...when they are playing without Luka:lol

He's "way better than Trae" but Murray dropped 40 on him
He's "way better than Trae" but Brunson became a house hold name playing against him
He's "way better than Trae" but Brunson dusted him again in last year playoffs

He's "way better than Trae" except for when he actually plays against other guards in the playoffs and they just relentlessly cook him to the point that the Jazz finally say "yeah enough of this trade this guy"

[rankingtear]

Super valid... but the list of young all star PGs who are available is small, the list of young all star PGs without critical flaws is smaller. You can get away with it so long as you build the rest of the roster to fit around the main pieces (Wemby, Trae/Whoever) instead of just inserting them into whatever clusterfuck of a roster you already have. Not entire sure this FO is up to that task.

That is true, it does not stop once you trade for one. You still have to shell out other asset to cover their weakness in a playoff series. How much more asset do you need to hide your defensive sieves now and years later as the league gets bigger and more skilled. ATL and POR spent almost a decade trying to figure that out. Why do you need to go through all that trouble for your second option. Who are you actually building around. People need to realize there are several ways to build a team and a star PG is not a requirement anymore.

[DAF86]

Advanced metrics and eye test don't stand up to real life performance. Trae has been good enough to be the best player on a team that made a conference finals. Mitchell hasn't.

Mitchell also borderline refused to give the ball to Gobert at times when they were in Utah, so I most definitely don't want him anywhere near Wemby, after literally seeing him refuse to consistently pass the ball to another big for years. Yuck.

And I don't know what "eye test" you could possibly be referring to when it comes to Mitchell. He literally turned Brunson into a household name. Almost nobody knew who Brunson was on a national scale until he cooked Mitchell in the playoffs when Luka was hurt. Imagine losing to the mavs...in the playoffs...when they are playing without Luka:lol

He's "way better than Trae" but Murray dropped 40 on him
He's "way better than Trae" but Brunson became a house hold name playing against him
He's "way better than Trae" but Brunson dusted him again in last year playoffs

He's "way better than Trae" except for when he actually plays against other guards in the playoffs and they just relentlessly cook him to the point that the Jazz finally say "yeah enough of this trade this guy"

You can get as emotional as you want but numbers suggest Mitchell is the better player both on offense and defense, and, no, a flukey conference finals run won't change that, specially since Mitchell's numbers on the playoffs are better than Trae's too.

[z0sa]

-Keldon, Collins and give Atlanta their picks back for Trae.
-Sign Miles Bridges in free agency (I don't know if this is even possible or how much of a pipe dream it is).
-Draft Risacher and Sheppard.

Trae
Vassell
Risacher
Miles Bridges
Wemby

Sheppard
Champagnie
McDermott (resign for cheap, if not try to get a veteran 3pt shooter)
Sochan
Barlow

Third stringers: Tre, Wesley, Branham, Mamu, Bassey

I don't know how good this would actually be.

Sry for late reply homie.

I really like this, if we managed to get Risacher AND Sheppard. I'm not sure that happens, but it'd be nice.

Only problem would be Pop.

I don't see any way Tre Jones loses the backup PG spot at this point, if he's willing to play ball money-wise. He knows all of Pop's schemes and the System in and out by now. I'm not saying we shouldn't get Sheppard, I think he's fantastic and after his game vs Mississippi State, hard to deny he's got a lot of "just what the doctor ordered." Just that I don't see him beating out Tre (completely) for minutes, at least next season. It's a Pop thing, I'm just not sure he coaches any backup PG (in our rotation) well next season.

I'm a Topic fan and it goes just as much for him. Pass first PGs who could be great in Game 1 are going to get the Pop treatment and ride the pine, go to the G-League, get DNPs et cetera.

[james evans]

A possible scenario I see happening if we get Trae, thanks to :pop:

- spurs trade quite a few assets for Trae
- Pop forces Trae to work within The System and play offball WAAAAY too often (like how he has spent entire games not running a play for Vic)
- Trae doesn't do well, and underachieves
- PATFO sniffers talk out of their ass about how they were so right about Trae being a low IQ team killer!
So basically the same that happened to Jefferson and Aldridge? hahah.

[Mnky]

Trae is an amazing game manager. He makes life on his teammates much easier on offense. He knows the game. His IQ is awesome. He knows three or four options for every drive he makes, and he often chooses the best one. He would make life much easier on not only Wemby, but vassell as well.

His presence alone would create a legitimate starting lineup in the NBA. Add another multi positional defensive forward and they're cooking something up. Wemby can make the team defense top 5 alone. If he had someone who could take the offense to top 10, which trae can do, then things start looking much better pretty fast.

Trae is a no brainer addition...as always, for the right price.

Could things go bad? Yes. Every decision can. This one would be filled with way more reasons why it makes sense than it doesn't.

[manufan10]

1761556624458629145

[Kevin]

1761556624458629145

Trae in the top right with Dev bottom left.

[scott]

1761556624458629145

Thanks for sharing, this is pretty insightful and reinforcing to the general belief that Trae would benefit everyone on the floor (perhaps especially Devin), not just Wemby. The difference between their Trae and our Tre is the delta you'd potentially be acquiring. Depending on what you believe a PG "job is" - you can't really do better than this. Luka, Trae and Hali stand in a league of their own.

And unless I'm missing something in this chart, crazy that Victor is who creates the highest quality (and the only above average) looks on our team :lol

[ambchang]

Trae is an amazing game manager. He makes life on his teammates much easier on offense. He knows the game. His IQ is awesome. He knows three or four options for every drive he makes, and he often chooses the best one. He would make life much easier on not only Wemby, but vassell as well.

His presence alone would create a legitimate starting lineup in the NBA. Add another multi positional defensive forward and they're cooking something up. Wemby can make the team defense top 5 alone. If he had someone who could take the offense to top 10, which trae can do, then things start looking much better pretty fast.

Trae is a no brainer addition...as always, for the right price.

Could things go bad? Yes. Every decision can. This one would be filled with way more reasons why it makes sense than it doesn't.

Is this why he shoots 44% and averages 4 TOs for his career?

[Mnky]

1761556624458629145

Chris Paul is what I see when I watch Trae, the way he orchestrates the floor on offense. That type of player not only makes the offense life easier but makes the opposing teams lives more difficult. That's constant pressure on the other team when you have someone like that picking you apart.

People watch highlights and think they know ball. Trae is without a doubt one of the best PGs in the NBA. There isn't many in that top tier. He's one of them. He's a competitor and he's not afraid of the moment. He won't get rattled. He's a dawg in crunch time. Spurs need that too.

If nothing else, it would guarantee spurs never see the ball in keldons hands at the end of a close game again. That alone is worth a couple first round picks tbh.

[R. DeMurre]

Chris Paul is what I see when I watch Trae, the way he orchestrates the floor on offense. That type of player not only makes the offense life easier but makes the opposing teams lives more difficult. That's constant pressure on the other team when you have someone like that picking you apart.

People watch highlights and think they know ball. Trae is without a doubt one of the best PGs in the NBA. There isn't many in that top tier. He's one of them. He's a competitor and he's not afraid of the moment. He won't get rattled. He's a dawg in crunch time. Spurs need that too.

If nothing else, it would guarantee spurs never see the ball in keldons hands at the end of a close game again. That alone is worth a couple first round picks tbh.


I think CP3 is a decent comp, except that he generally has much better impact stats, better shooting %s, is a much better defender, and has a better assist-to-turnover rate.... and even with these improvements on Trae's weaknesses, CP3 has still been unable to win a championship, despite having lots of talented teammates... because his archetype has trouble winning NBA titles.

[Mnky]

I think CP3 is a decent comp, except that he generally has much better impact stats, better shooting %s, is a much better defender, and has a better assist-to-turnover rate.... and even with these improvements on Trae's weaknesses, CP3 has still been unable to win a championship, despite having lots of talented teammates... because his archetype has trouble winning NBA titles.

This isn't accurate, the winning in the NBA part.

Steph is the only PG that wins a championship because of him. Every other PG was 2nd or 3rd on impact no matter their role.

In past 30+ years, their has been 12 different teams win. Superstars win championships and everyone else loses. The archetype of the PG definitely doesn't play that big of a role.

Go watch the hawks last few games. That team looks worse than the team that got Wembanyama last year and they have Murray on it.

CP3 defense is the big difference between those two. CP3 was someone you wanted on a lead guard at the end of games. Just a great defender. To his credit, even with the horrible team he has, Trae has been a decent defender this year and his IQ gets his hands on plays.

When it comes to game managing, I see the rare ability that CP3 has to completely control the pace of the game.

[DAF86]

M2uMa-fN3uQ

[DAF86]

This isn't accurate, the winning in the NBA part.

Steph is the only PG that wins a championship because of him. Every other PG was 2nd or 3rd on impact no matter their role.

In past 30+ years, their has been 12 different teams win. Superstars win championships and everyone else loses. The archetype of the PG definitely doesn't play that big of a role.

Go watch the hawks last few games. That team looks worse than the team that got Wembanyama last year and they have Murray on it.

CP3 defense is the big difference between those two. CP3 was someone you wanted on a lead guard at the end of games. Just a great defender. To his credit, even with the horrible team he has, Trae has been a decent defender this year and his IQ gets his hands on plays.

When it comes to game managing, I see the rare ability that CP3 has to completely control the pace of the game.

No, he hasn't. He actually has been one of the worst in the entire league if you look at the metrics.

[R. DeMurre]

This isn't accurate, the winning in the NBA part.

Steph is the only PG that wins a championship because of him. Every other PG was 2nd or 3rd on impact no matter their role.

In past 30+ years, their has been 12 different teams win. Superstars win championships and everyone else loses. The archetype of the PG definitely doesn't play that big of a role.

Go watch the hawks last few games. That team looks worse than the team that got Wembanyama last year and they have Murray on it.

CP3 defense is the big difference between those two. CP3 was someone you wanted on a lead guard at the end of games. Just a great defender. To his credit, even with the horrible team he has, Trae has been a decent defender this year and his IQ gets his hands on plays.

When it comes to game managing, I see the rare ability that CP3 has to completely control the pace of the game.


I don't mean the general archetype of a lead PG-- I'm specifically referring to an undersized PG. When the Suns lost to Milwaukee in the finals, the Bucks would work a switch to get Paul on a taller player over and over again-- and he's generally considered a "good" defender, as opposed to Trae.

I agree with you that generally superstars are the engines that lead to championships, but historically often the big "stars" and even MVPs who don't win titles are either smaller in general, or undersized for their position. Duncan, KG, Dirk, Shaq, Lebron, Kawhi, etc., won a ton of championships. CP3, Steve Nash, Allen Iverson, Charles Barkley (short for a PF) and John Stockton combined for zero, and i don't think the reason for that can be entirely written off as bad luck or unfortunate circumstances.

[SOMA Spur]

No, he hasn't. He actually has been one of the worst in the entire league if you look at the metrics.

Locked on Hawks guy talks about Trae adding something new to his game each year. To him, this year, the obvious focus and improvement is on the defensive side of the ball. He's not like a plus defender or even a good defender now. But he recons Trae has improved to like a 40% defender, up from bottom 10% league wide historically. This would track with some other anecdotal stuff from JJ's podcast and a couple other spots I've run across, talking about Trae being much more of a pest on defense this season. If he continues to care/improve on D, pair him with Wemby, and we'll be fine on that side of the ball.

[DAF86]

ZyPWbvqraHY

I know the idea of getting Young now is tempting and would immediately make our team a lot better, but the problem comes when we have to start trully fighting for championships. That's where all these flaws by Young get amplified and exposed.

[DAF86]

I really don't want to commit to this guy being Wemby's Robin, tbh.

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[spurraider21]

Is this why he shoots 44% and averages 4 TOs for his career?
He gets to the line a lot and doesn’t miss from there so his TS is still good.

also has never played with anybody who has anything resembling Wembys gravity. Closest is John collins

[Mr. Body]

ZyPWbvqraHY

I know the idea of getting Young now is tempting and would immediately make our team a lot better, but the problem comes when we have to start trully fighting for championships. That's where all these flaws by Young get amplified and exposed.

Yeah it's gonna be totally awesome to see Trae jack step-back bombs from five feet beyond the 3-point line while Wemby rolls open for a dunk. Just no way. I'd still consider Dejounte, not Trae. I don't think the FO will be interested either.

[Mr. Body]

The real question is what should Atlanta do. In order to move ahead as a franchise, they need to get rid of Trae Young. There are two problems with this:

1. They cannot rebuild with the Spurs owning their picks.
2. No one really wants Trae Young.

The first can be changed if they get some draft capital for 2025-2027. Toronto got Indiana's pick this year in the Siakam package which helps if they lose their own pick.

The second has a short list. Los Angeles Lakers, possibly the Wizards, and Spurs fans. I see no obvious other destinations. The problem is this guy lowers your ceiling. You're not going anywhere with him. The Wizards might be interested in an all-chuck team to get butts in the seats. Poole, Young, and Kuzma stealing the ball from each other to shoot would be amazing. But the new Wizards regime seems too smart for this.

That leaves the Lakers, who might be desperate to add him. This would be incredible, as it basically freezes the Lakers with the play-in at best for the foreseeable future. At best, because that's where they're mired and LeBron will soon be gone. That would be awesome.

I think the Hawks are actually desperate to get rid of him, but can't right now because of that Dejounte trade and because there aren't any suitors.

[LeBowen]

2. No one really wants Trae Young.


Lakers will definitely make a lowball offer.
Two teams other than the Spurs that will most likely be interested are Utah and Orlando.
They have the assets and he's a decent fit.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Lakers will definitely make a lowball offer.
Two teams other than the Spurs that will most likely be interested are Utah and Orlando.
They have the assets and he's a decent fit.

They can make all the offers they want. The Hawks are not going to tank trading away their best player without their picks.

[LeBowen]

They can make all the offers they want. The Hawks are not going to tank trading away their best player without their picks.

Did I say they would tank?
I've been repeating over and over that there's no way we get top5 selections from those Hawks picks unless we get extremely unlucky because they won't have an incentive to tank if they don't own their picks.

[TD 21]

I think CP3 is a decent comp, except that he generally has much better impact stats, better shooting %s, is a much better defender, and has a better assist-to-turnover rate.... and even with these improvements on Trae's weaknesses, CP3 has still been unable to win a championship, despite having lots of talented teammates... because his archetype has trouble winning NBA titles.

Conveniently left out the fact that Paul has had a litany of injuries in the playoffs and the only time he wasn't the best player on his team in his prime was from '17-'19 with the Rockets (something Young wouldn't have to worry about).

In '18, if not for his injury at the conclusion of game 5 while up 3-2, they might well have eliminated the Durant Warriors.

In '19, there was a rift between him and Harden.



Steph is the only PG that wins a championship because of him. Every other PG was 2nd or 3rd on impact no matter their role.

Golden boy has never gotten the job done without unprecedented opponent injury luck and begging one of the two best players who was clearly better than him at the time to join his team.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Did I say they would tank?
I've been repeating over and over that there's no way we get top5 selections from those Hawks picks unless we get extremely unlucky because they won't have an incentive to tank if they don't own their picks.

Trading Young = tanking. They are not going to make trades with anyone- including the Lakers- but the Spurs because we have their picks uniquely..

They should want to tank.

[LeBowen]

Trading Young = tanking.

Tanking = trying to get top3 odds in the draft.


They are not going to make trades with anyone

It depends.
This won't happen, but since Ainge loves to do weird shit, what if for example Utah wants to tank and decides to try for a 3 team trade?
Trae to Orlando, Markkanen to Hawks and picks to Utah.

Hawks - don't want to tank without their picks.
Orlando - have assets, point guard needed.
Utah - Ainge loves to tank and play mad scientist.

Hawks would maybe even get better because of DJ/Trae not being a good fit.
Again, it won't happen, but if Hawks can get some players that would be a better fit, they could still compete.
They're a treadmill franchise and their ownership would be happy with first round exits as long as the attendance is good.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Tanking = trying to get top3 odds in the draft.



It depends.
This won't happen, but since Ainge loves to do weird shit, what if for example Utah wants to tank and decides to try for a 3 team trade?
Trae to Orlando, Markkanen to Hawks and picks to Utah.

Hawks - don't want to tank without their picks.
Orlando - have assets, point guard needed.
Utah - Ainge loves to tank and play mad scientist.

Hawks would maybe even get better because of DJ/Trae not being a good fit.
Again, it won't happen, but if Hawks can get some players that would be a better fit, they could still compete.
They're a treadmill franchise and their ownership would be happy with first round exits as long as the attendance is good.

Again, they are already a bottom 10 team. Trading away Young will get them in the bottom 5.

They are not going to trade away Young and give us a top 5 pick for the next few years. If they want to trade with Orlando or the Lakers then more power to them. We just got several top 5 picks.

[LeBowen]

Whatever, I'm done.
It's like talking to a wall with some of you in here.

[mo7888]

There are to many variables to just conclude that Atlanta won't trade Trae 'anywhere except SA'. If things get toxic they can't keep him. Keeping us from getting a top 5 pick isn't going to be their primary concern. Those picks are a lost leader at this point and they are doing to do whatever they think makes them better. If a loser team like the Wizards offers unprotected firsts they'll move him because those picks are more valuable than their own (or at least have a chance to be).

To many variables...

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Whatever, I'm done.
It's like talking to a wall with some of you in here.

You are looking for worst case scenarios for the Spurs with the Hawks going elsewhere rather than what the Hawks want or need.

They are the 10th worst team with no 1st rounders 2025-2027. Trading away their far and away best player will result in a worse performance 2025 at the least.

DJ, the Lakers 14thish picks, MLE and the scrubs will likely be awful 2026 and 2027 too. We have their picks all 3 years.

On face value without looking at what the Spurs offer, there is no upside for the Hawks. You can put the Raptors and their 7th pick or the Nuggets up in the 20s and it's still a shit deal for the Hawks. We still have their unprotected picks for 3 years.

I would imagine they would rather keep treadmilling with Young at that point.

If the Hawks want to tank and they are already talking to us to do just that then each of their 3 picks becomes a high lottery pick in their hands. Getting 2 or 3 of those could allow them to rebuild.

That deal actually significantly helps the Hawks.

[RC_Drunkford]

Locked on Hawks guy talks about Trae adding something new to his game each year. To him, this year, the obvious focus and improvement is on the defensive side of the ball. He's not like a plus defender or even a good defender now. But he recons Trae has improved to like a 40% defender, up from bottom 10% league wide historically. This would track with some other anecdotal stuff from JJ's podcast and a couple other spots I've run across, talking about Trae being much more of a pest on defense this season. If he continues to care/improve on D, pair him with Wemby, and we'll be fine on that side of the ball.

I've been trying to tell people this, but they will tell you "I don't believe this" without watching any tape. Or bring up old videos from seasons before. It is what it is. I hope we can pair him with Wemby.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

There are to many variables to just conclude that Atlanta won't trade Trae 'anywhere except SA'. If things get toxic they can't keep him. Keeping us from getting a top 5 pick isn't going to be their primary concern. Those picks are a lost leader at this point and they are doing to do whatever they think makes them better. If a loser team like the Wizards offers unprotected firsts they'll move him because those picks are more valuable than their own (or at least have a chance to be).

To many variables...

Assets that are better than getting their 3 picks we have back are what exactly?

The Lakers or Nuggets shitty picks? Not even on a 3 to 1 basis.

You think Charlotte, Detroit, or one of the toilet teams is going to swoop in and give them their picks?

Because unless you can come up with top 5 picks or all stars then you aren't even in the ballpark of what the Spurs have on offer.

[mo7888]

Assets that are better than getting their 3 picks we have back are what exactly?

The Lakers or Nuggets shitty picks? Not even on a 3 to 1 basis.

You think Charlotte, Detroit, or one of the toilet teams is going to swoop in and give them their picks?

Because unless you can come up with top 5 picks or all stars then you aren't even in the ballpark of what the Spurs have on offer.

Potentially the Wizards, Charlotte, or Detroit are better than the ATL picks.

No I don't expect those teams to swoop in with picks, but that wasn't the point.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Potentially the Wizards, Charlotte, or Detroit are better than the ATL picks.

No I don't expect those teams to swoop in with picks, but that wasn't the point.

Of course not, because no toilet team is going to trade for Trae Young but us.

Your point is there are too many variables and you just discounted one example you had. Arguments without basis are to be discarded.

[mo7888]

Of course not, because no toilet team is going to trade for Trae Young but us.

Your point is there are too many variables and you just discounted one example you had. Arguments without basis are to be discarded.

Cool... Please disregard my comments from here on out...you'll be more comfortable...

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Cool... Please disregard my comments from here on out...you'll be more comfortable...

You said there were too many variables and gave a single example to only discount it out of and the very next post.

Your argument has no basis and is discarded. You can take your toys home if you want.

[mo7888]

You said there were too many variables and gave a single example to only discount it out of and the very next post.

Your argument has no basis and is discarded. You can take your toys home if you want.

I gave more than that... I gave an example of things getting toxic with Trae and that they couldn't keep him if that happens..

I gave the example of their thought process being that the picks we hold are a loss leader...

And if had disregarded my 'argument' you would jave moved on....but here you are...

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I gave more than that... I gave an example of things getting toxic with Trae and that they couldn't keep him if that happens..

I gave the example of their thought process being that the picks we hold are a loss leader...

And if had disregarded my 'argument' you would jave moved on....but here you are...

First one just increases their motivation to trade and has no bearing on my argument. That would be a good thing as it makes him cheaper.

As for the second I believe you meant lost cause but the rub here is they are already reportedly talking to us so they don't think that.

What else?

[mo7888]

First one just increases their motivation to trade and has no bearing on my argument. That would be a good thing as it makes him cheaper.

As for the second I believe you meant lost cause but the rub here is they are already reportedly talking to us so they don't think that.

What else?

You're argument? I never addressed your argument and i never addressed you period. I addressed the general idea that Atlanta wouldn't trade Trae anywhere except SA.

And i didn't mean lost cause.... I meant lost leader. Would they like to get them back? Sure, but that's not in their control. They can try (which gives us leverage), but any business guy will automatically view them as a lost leader at this point and will evaluate all options to do whats best for his team.

Is getting those picks back in their best interest? I would argue yes, but if we don't value Trae more than those picks they're going to be forced to look at other options. Those are all variables in play right now.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

You're argument? I never addressed your argument and i never addressed you period. I addressed the general idea that Atlanta wouldn't trade Trae anywhere except SA.

And i didn't mean lost cause.... I meant lost leader. Would they like to get them back? Sure, but that's not in their control. They can try (which gives us leverage), but any business guy will automatically view them as a lost leader at this point and will evaluate all options to do whats best for his team.

Is getting those picks back in their best interest? I would argue yes, but if we don't value Trae more than those picks they're going to be forced to look at other options. Those are all variables in play right now.

spent cost? sure but they only have so many opportunities.

they can treadmill sure.

they can trade with someone sure. as we have pointed out that the teams with high draft picks are not going to trade for Young. Helping a team 7-30 to improve does not help them.

So that leaves us or some mystical set of all stars that we cannot get in on ourselves.

there are not that many options here.

[rascal]

Why all the Trae Young talk?

The Hawks aren't trading him to the Spurs for what it would take to trade for him and what the Spurs would be willing to trade.

[mo7888]

spent cost? sure but they only have so many opportunities.

they can treadmill sure.

they can trade with someone sure. as we have pointed out that the teams with high draft picks are not going to trade for Young. Helping a team 7-30 to improve does not help them.

So that leaves us or some mystical set of all stars that we cannot get in on ourselves.

there are not that many options here.

And if we don't want him, what do they do?

Or

If we only think he's worth the lesser of the 25 and 27 picks we hold, what do they do?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Why all the Trae Young talk?

The Hawks aren't trading him to the Spurs for what it would take to trade for him and what the Spurs would be willing to trade.

There we go. Back with the worst case scenario wishcasting.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

And if we don't want him, what do they do?

Or

If we only think he's worth the lesser of the 25 and 27 picks we hold, what do they do?

Again, we are already talking with them all the way up to the deadline. We want to trade with them.

As for the second you are now reduced to assuming the Spurs are ignorant about past trades and relative values. I do hope they negotiate hard and maximize value.

[rascal]

There we go. Back with the worst case scenario wishcasting.

It's not the worst case scenario.

Those draft picks it would cost to get Young are valuable and will reload the spurs roster which has many needs.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

It's not the worst case scenario.

Those draft picks it would cost to get Young are valuable and will reload the spurs roster which has many needs.

Point taken. You are wishcasting your preferred outcome.

[mo7888]

Again, we are already talking with them all the way up to the deadline. We want to trade with them.

As for the second you are now reduced to assuming the Spurs are ignorant about past trades and relative values.

No, you're using your presuppositions as a basis for your argument.

I don't accept your presuppositions at all.

I don't accept that we really want Trae because a biased sports reporter at espn says we do.

I don't accept your definition of relative value.

Basically you want to have a discussion based your presuppositions being 'correct or infallible', and that's nonsense as a basis for a discussion.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

No, you're using your presuppositions as a basis for your argument.

I don't accept your presuppositions at all.

I don't accept that we really want Trae because a biased sports reporter at espn says we do.

I don't accept your definition of relative value.

Basically you want to have a discussion based your presuppositions being 'correct or infallible', and that's nonsense as a basis for a discussion.

You are welcome to argue any point I make. I am trying to make some axiomatic points. Deal with it.

[mo7888]

You are welcome to argue any point I make. I am trying to make some axiomatic points. Deal with it.

Nothing to deal with.... You brought your argument to me not the other way around. I'm not try to convince you of my view. Your presuppositions are irrelevant to me...

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Nothing to deal with.... You brought your argument to me not the other way around. I'm not try to convince you of my view. Your presuppositions are irrelevant to me...

Seeing that I am the only one making the argument that we have the Hawks by the balls and they need to negotiate with the spurs uniquely, I find this line disingenuous.

[Mnky]

I don't mean the general archetype of a lead PG-- I'm specifically referring to an undersized PG. When the Suns lost to Milwaukee in the finals, the Bucks would work a switch to get Paul on a taller player over and over again-- and he's generally considered a "good" defender, as opposed to Trae.

I agree with you that generally superstars are the engines that lead to championships, but historically often the big "stars" and even MVPs who don't win titles are either smaller in general, or undersized for their position. Duncan, KG, Dirk, Shaq, Lebron, Kawhi, etc., won a ton of championships. CP3, Steve Nash, Allen Iverson, Charles Barkley (short for a PF) and John Stockton combined for zero, and i don't think the reason for that can be entirely written off as bad luck or unfortunate circumstances.

The PG will always be a liability. There are hardly any PGs that don't get taken advantage of. Trae would be the game manager, not the superstar of the team. He gets paid like a superstar unfortunately but every team will have to pay players like that these days if there anywhere near above average. He wouldn't be coming in to be the superstar though. Wemby has that. Wemby does need help though. Do you get him another star pf that takes away his inside spacing? Or do you go for the opposite end of the spectrum and add someone who adds to his spacing. By a large margin at that.

A great pg and great sf would benefit him the most in my opinion. He needs someone to help lockdown the wings in that hybrid forwars/guard spot.

When it comes to pg, I feel like a strong game manager and someone who can stretch the floor fit him the best.

Is it perfect? Of course not. We would all like that defensive, 3 pt shooting, perfect decision making pg but let's be real.. they don't exist. You have to give someone thing up and when it comes to wembys match, the defense can give. Wemby makes up for those deficiencies. Sochan is a good switch defender on the wing as well. Trae will get covered as good as he could with those two and bring plenty of upside on the offense.

It's just a good match. They compliment eachothers games well. Doesn't mean it's the final solution or perfect. But when you look around the league for what's available.. where else you going? If wemby wants to compete, Spurs don't have a choice. If he's cool with waiting then cool but if he isn't, Trae definitely isn't a bad decision like some are making it out to be.

[R. DeMurre]

Conveniently left out the fact that Paul has had a litany of injuries in the playoffs and the only time he wasn't the best player on his team in his prime was from '17-'19 with the Rockets (something Young wouldn't have to worry about).

In '18, if not for his injury at the conclusion of game 5 while up 3-2, they might well have eliminated the Durant Warriors.

In '19, there was a rift between him and Harden.




Golden boy has never gotten the job done without unprecedented opponent injury luck and begging one of the two best players who was clearly better than him at the time to join his team.

And if Duncan never had plantar fasciitis or nagging knee issues, he might've won 7 rings instead of 5... The fact still remains that Stockton, Nash, Iverson, and CP3 were each considered premier players of their eras and between them produced zero rings in over 60 combined attempts.

Curry's a different animal because he's the greatest shooter in NBA history. It's crazy that you're trying to argue he's somehow overrated, considering he led a team in a three year charge of 67, 73, and 67 wins, and has 4 rings. Do you honestly think CP3's "almost won a title once or twice" is a better resume than Steph's?

[manufan10]

I've been trying to tell people this, but they will tell you "I don't believe this" without watching any tape. Or bring up old videos from seasons before. It is what it is. I hope we can pair him with Wemby.


Locked on Hawks guy talks about Trae adding something new to his game each year. To him, this year, the obvious focus and improvement is on the defensive side of the ball. He's not like a plus defender or even a good defender now. But he recons Trae has improved to like a 40% defender, up from bottom 10% league wide historically. This would track with some other anecdotal stuff from JJ's podcast and a couple other spots I've run across, talking about Trae being much more of a pest on defense this season. If he continues to care/improve on D, pair him with Wemby, and we'll be fine on that side of the ball.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GG5GfBsbQAAN9NF?format=jpg&name=medium

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[Seventyniner]

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The thread that John Colburn wrote in response is worth reading.

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Here's the text version.


I’m not Bball index, but there’s a few factors at play and a lot of them have to do with the way catch alls work.

First, Trae Young is still a bad defender increased awareness, effort, and playmaking notwithstanding.

Second, catch-alls estimate credit for defensive performance

Based on a box score component and an adjusted plus-minus component. Our defensive box score stats are pretty limited so it’s mostly working off of Stocks and defensive rebounds. Obviously things he isn’t compiling a lot of regardless. So when he’s on the floor, they’re going to

Draw the conclusion, that is the weakest Link based on these box score numbers. Then when it sees how poor the Hawks defense is when he is on the floor because of his lower box score component. It is going to hold him most responsible for their underperformance. Whether that’s

Fair schematically is up for some debate. However, were he part of a better defense (and I just wanna point out again did the hawks defense is terrible whether he plays or not) his catchalls would look a lot better because the on-court baseline for the adjusted plus minus stuff

Would be better. And example would be Dame, who unless he has reinvented himself as a defensive player this year at 33 or whatever, suddenly grades out as a significantly better defender, by joining a cohesive infrastructure in Milwaukee.

Finally, I’m not sure that catch-alls still have him basically dead last anyway. He’s at like the 40th percentile in EPM

In sum, Trae Young is not a good defensive player, and the he’s actually good now stuff is probably overblown. On the other hand the biggest difference between Dame’s defensive all-in-ones and Trae’s is the gap between Giannis and Saddiq Bey, not Trae and Dame.