Fischer: Spurs Repeatedly Mentioned By NBA Figures As Potential Home For Young

[TD 21]

NBA trade deadline 2024: Low-key day improves odds for summer blockbusters - Yahoo Sports (https://sports.yahoo.com/nba-trade-deadline-2024-low-key-day-improves-odds-for-summer-blockbusters-020104872.html)

I suspect it's likely them just putting two and two together as opposed to the Spurs necessarily being interested.

[Mr. Body]

Lakers free up three draft picks this summer to trade for him. Expect the chatter to pick up high. That would be great for us. Atlanta will suck and the Lakers will make it harder to actually win in the future.

[gambit1990]

i've never been a fan of trae young but i'd much rather the spurs go that route than have another season like this one.

i didn't know he's averaging 10 assists--even with having to split the ball with dejounte. so that's a good sign.

[gambit1990]

i'd rather the spurs trade for him than dejounte, that's for sure.

hawks will be asking a lot for trae though.

[Joseph Kony]

Anyone who thinks a Young/Wemby pairing wouldn't work is retarded. likewise anyone who thinks Wemby will be reduced to a lob threat because of Young is a retard.

Trae Young is not the idea PG but he is an elite PG in the league and scoffing the notion of trading for him is pretty dumb. If all SA has to give up are Hawks own picks/swaps returned to them and someone like Keldon + filler, i think you do that deal all day. i'd rather have a certainty that we will have an elite PG next to Wemby versus hoping we find one in the draft. Young has also had some pretty dominant playoff performances already. again, he is not my ideal PG, and he has flaws (like any other player does), but the fact that you have sniffers on this board scoffing the notion of pairing him with Wemby just speaks to how dumb some posters here are. i'm not saying break the bank for him, but if the price is right, and he wants to be here, pull the trigger. any BS about his teammates not liking him or whatever are from the same random sauces that the sniffers are quick to discredit when they talk about Spurs related rumors

[exstatic]

Anyone who thinks a Young/Wemby pairing wouldn't work is retarded. likewise anyone who thinks Wemby will be reduced to a lob threat because of Young is a retard.

Trae Young is not the idea PG but he is an elite PG in the league and scoffing the notion of trading for him is pretty dumb. If all SA has to give up are Hawks own picks/swaps returned to them and someone like Keldon + filler, i think you do that deal all day. i'd rather have a certainty that we will have an elite PG next to Wemby versus hoping we find one in the draft. Young has also had some pretty dominant playoff performances already. again, he is not my ideal PG, and he has flaws (like any other player does), but the fact that you have sniffers on this board scoffing the notion of pairing him with Wemby just speaks to how dumb some posters here are. i'm not saying break the bank for him, but if the price is right, and he wants to be here, pull the trigger. any BS about his teammates not liking him or whatever are from the same random sauces that the sniffers are quick to discredit when they talk about Spurs related rumors

The dislike of his teammates is a fact that can be verified by counting his ASG player votes. They total less than the number of teammates he has, which mean no other players think much of him either.

[objective]

Even though he's just relating speculation, Fischer is the guy who broke the Dejounte-Hawks talks last year so he's worth paying attention to with Hawks related info

[Mr. Body]

The dislike of his teammates is a fact that can be verified by counting his ASG player votes. They total less than the number of teammates he has, which mean no other players think much of him either.

Not just the All-Star thing. Every report indicates he's not liked by his teammates.

I mean, I don't know how often the team has to say they don't want to make expensive mistakes before people just have to move on from their EA Sports fantasies. Even if he has a 55% chance of being great, they're not going to do it. And guess what? He's not great. He's inefficient and his teams don't win games. That's not going to change on another team.

[TD 21]

I have an idea, but whatever the reason(s) for his teammates supposedly not liking him, given the Spurs connections with Fields and Snyder (there's probably even some leftovers from Ferry's era), they'd have a good sense of not only why, but whether that's started to change.

Either way and even considering that we know small and heliocentric is not their preference, at the very least they should already be giving this serious thought because it's possible a better fit/player may not be for the taking for them for the foreseeable future.

[scott]

Team: "We don't want to make expensive mistakes"

Also team: 46.2% of salary cap tied up in Vassell, Johnson, Collins.

[Mr. Body]

Team: "We don't want to make expensive mistakes"

Also team: 46.2% of salary cap tied up in Vassell, Johnson, Collins.

Vassell's salary, like I keep pointing out, goes down year over year.

So does Keldon's.

Collins' isn't that much.

The team has to pay players. It's a requirement. It's called the salary floor. And you need salary blocks if you want to make trades. A contract like Collins is exatly what you want if you want to acquire a star.

This ain't difficult, man.

[cd98]

Vassell's salary, like I keep pointing out, goes down year over year.

So does Keldon's.

Collins' isn't that much.

The team has to pay players. It's a requirement. It's called the salary floor. And you need salary blocks if you want to make trades. A contract like Collins is exatly what you want if you want to acquire a star.

This ain't difficult, man.

I think what he’s saying is that we should just drop all the lottery picks from the roster except Wemby. Thank goodness Spurs don’t get their GMs from Spurstalk.

[scott]

Vassell's salary, like I keep pointing out, goes down year over year.

So does Keldon's.

Collins' isn't that much.

The team has to pay players. It's a requirement. It's called the salary floor. And you need salary blocks if you want to make trades. A contract like Collins is exatly what you want if you want to acquire a star.

This ain't difficult, man.

Being a declining contract doesn't provide justification for an overpay. And yes, right now it's looking like an overpay. He'll be making more next year than DJM, JJJ, Jalen Brunson, and Mikal Bridges, for example. There is still time for his contract to prove a bargain, but so far this season it's looking iffy... unless you also think someone like Jordan Poole's contract is a steal.

A team has to pay players. It doesn't have to overpay shitty ones. That's how teams end up with things like... I don't know, a .192 winning percentage.

And no, a contract like Collins isn't exactly what you want if you want to acquire a star. There is no requirement that you have overpaid, undersized backup centers who can't shoot or defend include in trades for stars. Exactly zero teams have ever looked at what Zach Collins has currently is and said "yeah, that's the perfect piece that makes this entire deal make sense". Looking back at the last few big trades... nope, none of them included a shitty overpaid Zach Collins-like negative asset. Maybe Bertans being passed around like a used up French whore to facilitate blockbuster moves for Gordon Hayward constitutes acquiring a star.

You're right, this ain't difficult, which makes it all that more impressive that you continually vomit all of this nonsense all over yourself.

[BacktoBasics]

Being a declining contract doesn't provide justification for an overpay. And yes, right now it's looking like an overpay. He'll be making more next year than DJM, JJJ, Jalen Brunson, and Mikal Bridges, for example. There is still time for his contract to prove a bargain, but so far this season it's looking iffy... unless you also think someone like Jordan Poole's contract is a steal.

A team has to pay players. It doesn't have to overpay shitty ones. That's how teams end up with things like... I don't know, a .192 winning percentage.

And no, a contract like Collins isn't exactly what you want if you want to acquire a star. There is no requirement that you have overpaid, undersized backup centers who can't shoot or defend include in trades for stars. Exactly zero teams have ever looked at what Zach Collins has currently is and said "yeah, that's the perfect piece that makes this entire deal make sense". Looking back at the last few big trades... nope, none of them included a shitty overpaid Zach Collins-like negative asset. Maybe Bertans being passed around like a used up French whore to facilitate blockbuster moves for Gordon Hayward constitutes acquiring a star.

You're right, this ain't difficult, which makes it all that more impressive that you continually vomit all of this nonsense all over yourself.

Normally I agree with your takes but Vassell isn’t an overpay. Obviously we’d like him to be a bit healthier but adding an 18ppg player was going to likely eat up some of his offense. The experiment didn’t help Vassell either. Not having a pg ate some of game up too.

He’s definitely not an overpay. I see him as a long term player for us.

[illusioNtEk]

Trae Young signed a 5 year / $215,159,700 contract, no fucking way, not worth it... lets get a good pick and keep building

[MI21]

Fischer was the first to mention DJM being traded when that really didn't seem like a realistic option so there is a chance he has decent sourcing in ATL or SA.

[Mr. Body]

Being a declining contract doesn't provide justification for an overpay. And yes, right now it's looking like an overpay. He'll be making more next year than DJM, JJJ, Jalen Brunson, and Mikal Bridges, for example. There is still time for his contract to prove a bargain, but so far this season it's looking iffy... unless you also think someone like Jordan Poole's contract is a steal.

A team has to pay players. It doesn't have to overpay shitty ones. That's how teams end up with things like... I don't know, a .192 winning percentage.

And no, a contract like Collins isn't exactly what you want if you want to acquire a star. There is no requirement that you have overpaid, undersized backup centers who can't shoot or defend include in trades for stars. Exactly zero teams have ever looked at what Zach Collins has currently is and said "yeah, that's the perfect piece that makes this entire deal make sense". Looking back at the last few big trades... nope, none of them included a shitty overpaid Zach Collins-like negative asset. Maybe Bertans being passed around like a used up French whore to facilitate blockbuster moves for Gordon Hayward constitutes acquiring a star.

You're right, this ain't difficult, which makes it all that more impressive that you continually vomit all of this nonsense all over yourself.

I mean, the alternative was paying a Fred Van Vleet a ton of money.

And, yes, you need to understand the importance of reasonable salary slots attached to decent players. If you did want to get a Trae Young you have to bundle up some players in addition to draft picks.

Again, this really isn't hard. The Spurs contracts are structured to ease or disappear when they may need to start paying other players or to give them flexibility. There are real reasons to complain about choices made. Relentlessly bitching and moaning about these contracts aren't.

[Ariel]

Normally I agree with your takes but Vassell isn’t an overpay. Obviously we’d like him to be a bit healthier but adding an 18ppg player was going to likely eat up some of his offense. The experiment didn’t help Vassell either. Not having a pg ate some of game up too.

He’s definitely not an overpay. I see him as a long term player for us.
I think Vassell will be an overpay next season in the first of his 5 year contract, at 29.3M. Then, as the cap increases, his salary goes down to 27M, 27M, 24.6M, and spikes to 27M the last year (probably to facilitate an extension if necessary). Provided he doesn't regress and there's a team around him, he should be able to at the very least look good enough to keep his trade value positive.
Something similar happens with Keldon, if he were to play a lesser role in a more fluid offense he wouldn't need to force so much and he'd look better, I don't think his contract will be a problem.
Lastly, Zach Collins is actually way overpaid, but at least his contract runs only 2 more years, the first of which I doubt there's much problem keeping him on the roster, but if the salary slot is needed to make a run at a free agent the following year, I don't think an expiring 17M contract by 2025 will be that hard to move.
All in all, not great contracts but not too burdensome either.

[scott]

Normally I agree with your takes but Vassell isn’t an overpay. Obviously we’d like him to be a bit healthier but adding an 18ppg player was going to likely eat up some of his offense. The experiment didn’t help Vassell either. Not having a pg ate some of game up too.

He’s definitely not an overpay. I see him as a long term player for us.

I think Devin still has a chance to "earn" his contract, but right now it's an overpay to me - but I'll also be the first to say (as I have in many threads) that he should benefit tremendously by a real PG in the game who can both set him up and be a threat who's gravity free things up for Devin. But right now he is only starting to shake loose from the trappings of a dysfunctional offense where he had to essentially transform into a high-volume chucker because that was the only way the offensive would do anything at all. So, largely I don't blame Devin for a lot of the deficiencies currently found in his game. He takes a lot of bad, predetermined shots - but it's only because that is what this offense was having him doing. I have some optimism, but we need to see him grow out of that and into a team game, which he hasn't quite done yet.

And he needs to play some defense.

[spurraider21]

I think Devin still has a chance to "earn" his contract, but right now it's an overpay to me - but I'll also be the first to say (as I have in many threads) that he should benefit tremendously by a real PG in the game who can both set him up and be a threat who's gravity free things up for Devin. But right now he is only starting to shake loose from the trappings of a dysfunctional offense where he had to essentially transform into a high-volume chucker because that was the only way the offensive would do anything at all. So, largely I don't blame Devin for a lot of the deficiencies currently found in his game. He takes a lot of bad, predetermined shots - but it's only because that is what this offense was having him doing. I have some optimism, but we need to see him grow out of that and into a team game, which he hasn't quite done yet.

And he needs to play some defense.
if you want to be technical about it... as is the case with Zollins, he's not technically on that contract yet. he's making just under 6 mil this year.

the difference is vassell is 23 and collins is 26, so there is a better chance that he shows a significant amount of growth/improvement compared to collins.. enough to justify if not outperform that new contract. next year will be the most expensive year of his deal, not only because its the biggest number (29 mil compared to other seasons where his at 27 mil or 25 mil), but also because we can expect the cap to rise

[scott]

I actually don't mind any of these contracta, they just fly in the face of this "we don't want to make any costly mistakes" mantra. They've made multiple costly mistakes. What they haven't done, is make a fatal mistake (like trading two unprotected FRPs and an unprotected pick swap for Dejounte Murray without considerable other assets as a backstop), which is great.

Bottom line: this FO is operating with very little credibility right now, and many of us clearly have zero problems pointing that out. If it all works out, we'll all be happy and I'll be the first to eat crow and give them their flowers. But in the meantime, "just be patient, we're pounding the rock, not making any mistakes!" is just non-sense used to avoid accountability. It's like watching an alcoholic continue to get drunk, but tell you that this is all part of the process of getting sober. Just have patience!

[baseline bum]

Not just the All-Star thing. Every report indicates he's not liked by his teammates.

I mean, I don't know how often the team has to say they don't want to make expensive mistakes before people just have to move on from their EA Sports fantasies. Even if he has a 55% chance of being great, they're not going to do it. And guess what? He's not great. He's inefficient and his teams don't win games. That's not going to change on another team.

Yeah let's make expensive mistakes like paying Zollins $17 million a year instead

[scott]

I mean, the alternative was paying a Fred Van Vleet a ton of money.

This was not the alternative. The Spurs were forced to neither overpay FVV, or overpay Zach Collins. There was no gun forcing them to do so, stop saying dumb shit like this, because it's not true.


And, yes, you need to understand the importance of reasonable salary slots attached to decent players. If you did want to get a Trae Young you have to bundle up some players in addition to draft picks.

Again, this really isn't hard. The Spurs contracts are structured to ease or disappear when they may need to start paying other players or to give them flexibility. There are real reasons to complain about choices made. Relentlessly bitching and moaning about these contracts aren't.

The choice are what make them a mistake. Signing someone to a 2/$35 deal isn't the mistake. The fact that person is Zach Collins is what makes it a mistake. Yes, you have to match salaries. When those matching salaries are negative assets, though, that just raises the cost of acquiring your target. That is what makes it a mistake. To bring up everyone's favorite country bumpkin, you'd be better off with Austin Reeves on a 4/$80 than Zach Collins on a 2/$35 for matching purposes, because at least some teams actually want Reaves. The only thing mitigating the negative value of Zach's extension is that it's only two years. With that said, if the plan is to have a $17m expiring to move at the deadline in February of 2026, then it works pretty well I guess.

[Ariel]

Yeah let's make expensive mistakes like paying Zollins $17 million a year instead
In Young's case the problem isn't his contract, but the amount of assets it'd take to get him, which would be A LOT.

[baseline bum]

Trae Young signed a 5 year / $215,159,700 contract, no fucking way, not worth it... lets get a good pick and keep building

The cap is probably to increase significantly each year, starting in 25-26 thanks to the new TV/streaming deal. That's probably going to be a pretty good contract for 25-26. Too bad young has an opt-out for 26-27 though.

[timtonymanu]

lol the typical posters “I don’t want Trae because his teammates didn’t vote for him but I was all in on a predator who actually sabotaged the spurs with his shitty actions.”

[scott]

In Young's case the problem isn't his contract, but the amount of assets it'd take to get him, which would be A LOT.

Agree 100% with this. There seems to be two camps, one that doesn't want Trae at any price, and those who think we should get him at all costs.

I'm in the middle. I'd be happy to have him for the right price, but not giving up the farm for him. I'd probably go as big as TOR, SA '25, '26 Swap back to them, ATL '27, Keldon. But they also have to take Collins. (I probably try to keep Keldon out of it if I can).

I doubt that is enough to get it done, but it's as far as I'm willing to go. Trae would be fun and I think a definitely a positive addition to the team, but not good enough to want to go balls out for. If it were Maxey or Halliburton... now I'm ready to back up the truck. But not for Trae. I'd rather have DJM back at a fraction of what we got for him.

[timtonymanu]

People saying Trae doesn’t win games but he made it to the ECF with John Collins as his #2. You’re telling me having a generational talent like Wemby won’t fix the doubts you may have.

[Robz4000]

Not sure why people say the Spurs are overpaying Keldon tbh. Even with his faults he's still on a bargain contract.

[baseline bum]

Agree 100% with this. There seems to be two camps, one that doesn't want Trae at any price, and those who think we should get him at all costs.

I'm in the middle. I'd be happy to have him for the right price, but not giving up the farm for him. I'd probably go as big as TOR, SA '25, '26 Swap back to them, ATL '27, Keldon. But they also have to take Collins. (I probably try to keep Keldon out of it if I can).

I doubt that is enough to get it done, but it's as far as I'm willing to go. Trae would be fun and I think a definitely a positive addition to the team, but not good enough to want to go balls out for. If it were Maxey or Halliburton... now I'm ready to back up the truck. But not for Trae. I'd rather have DJM back at a fraction of what we got for him.

That's too high a price for me. Remove either Keldon or the Toronto pick. Spurs don't need to bid against themselves here.

[scott]

That's too high a price for me. Remove either Keldon or the Toronto pick. Spurs don't need to bid against themselves here.

I may very well be wrong, but I think folks are underestimating what landing someone like Trae would really cost. Who knows what is real, but if teams are offering 4 FRPs for Bridges... I'd say getting Trae will be expensive. I doubt we ever actually find out though. I don't think Trae is getting moved.

[Frenchfred]

Anyone who thinks a Young/Wemby pairing wouldn't work is retarded. likewise anyone who thinks Wemby will be reduced to a lob threat because of Young is a retard.

Trae Young is not the idea PG but he is an elite PG in the league and scoffing the notion of trading for him is pretty dumb. If all SA has to give up are Hawks own picks/swaps returned to them and someone like Keldon + filler, i think you do that deal all day. i'd rather have a certainty that we will have an elite PG next to Wemby versus hoping we find one in the draft. Young has also had some pretty dominant playoff performances already. again, he is not my ideal PG, and he has flaws (like any other player does), but the fact that you have sniffers on this board scoffing the notion of pairing him with Wemby just speaks to how dumb some posters here are. i'm not saying break the bank for him, but if the price is right, and he wants to be here, pull the trigger. any BS about his teammates not liking him or whatever are from the same random sauces that the sniffers are quick to discredit when they talk about Spurs related rumors

Sorry man, it is a forum and we can all have different opinion. Calling people dumb is not going to create good discussions.

for me, Young is a bad shooter, an awful defender and he is going to make 43 millions +15% trade kicker so 49 millions. That’s a lot of money and that pretty much guarantee that you won’t be able to trade for another good player so you will rely on draft but you’ll send a lot of your picks.

but everything has a price. Let’s say he declines his trade kicker and the Hawks accept their 2026 swap and 2027 FRP plus chicago FRP, then I’ll probably go for it as you keep a lot of FRP to add talent or go for a trade.

[objective]

Sorry man, it is a forum and we can all have different opinion. Calling people dumb is not going to create good discussions.

for me, Young is a bad shooter, an awful defender and he is going to make 43 millions +15% trade kicker so 49 millions. That’s a lot of money and that pretty much guarantee that you won’t be able to trade for another good player so you will rely on draft but you’ll send a lot of your picks.

but everything has a price. Let’s say he declines his trade kicker and the Hawks accept their 2026 swap and 2027 FRP plus chicago FRP, then I’ll probably go for it as you keep a lot of FRP to add talent or go for a trade.

Trade kicker is a i likely non issue, it can't take a player above their max and he's already on a SuperMax. Cap won't jump enough for it to activate

[Joseph Kony]

Sorry man, it is a forum and we can all have different opinion. Calling people dumb is not going to create good discussions.

for me, Young is a bad shooter, an awful defender and he is going to make 43 millions +15% trade kicker so 49 millions. That’s a lot of money and that pretty much guarantee that you won’t be able to trade for another good player so you will rely on draft but you’ll send a lot of your picks.

but everything has a price. Let’s say he declines his trade kicker and the Hawks accept their 2026 swap and 2027 FRP plus chicago FRP, then I’ll probably go for it as you keep a lot of FRP to add talent or go for a trade.

It's fine to say you think he is a bad defender, makes too much money, etc. that's not the same as thinking the pairing wouldn't be effective or that having Young would reduce Wemby to being a lob threat only. he also is not a "bad" shooter. he is definitely streaky and he's not curry obviously (no one is) but he's had seasons shooting 38% on high volume as the absolute focal point of his teams offense. What do you think he would be able to do with someone like Wemby taking attention off of him? not to mention he has averaged 9+ assists basically his entire career and he is a master of throwing lobs. his advanced numbers are solid, he grades out as an elite offensive player

Like i said in my original post - he is not the ideal PG, but to act like he and Wemby wouldnt make for a special pairing on offense is asinine. Yes he sucks on defense but with the right players around him that can be minimized, especially with Wemby in the paint. all i'm saying is if he is available for a decent price (meaning none of our own picks or Wemby/Vassell/maybe Sochan), you make the deal if he wants to be here.

[z0sa]

To me, it's an absolute no-brainer. The city wants a new arena, the owners are expecting a massive influx of cash for the next decade+, and Trae+Wemby would pretty much single-handedly accomplish both. It'd be the "arena Wemby built." Even if we kept losing, the games would be much more exciting, no doubt. I am probably incorrect but I worry a bit about the Spurs leaving San Antonio. I'd be so pissed off if it happened, and Trae pretty much guarantees that doesn't happen. Especially if he buys in, builds some chemistry for once, and decides to stay here. I do also feel a move like this would attract more free agents than Wemby alone. Right now, the Spurs seem very set in their ways in building through the draft and the city has never been a coveted destination. SA lucked out with last generation's draft choices, honestly. They were also ahead of the game on foreigners. I'm not sure we get that lucky or have the same advantage during this re-build, and if not, the best way to attract free agents is a guy like Trae (and Wemby of course, when he's got more experience) who you KNOW will make your life easier. If we're also winning, all the better, of course.

[tbdog]

If it was going to happen, it was always at the draft or before training camp.

[baseline bum]

I may very well be wrong, but I think folks are underestimating what landing someone like Trae would really cost. Who knows what is real, but if teams are offering 4 FRPs for Bridges... I'd say getting Trae will be expensive. I doubt we ever actually find out though. I don't think Trae is getting moved.

I'd rather have Bridges than Trae and it makes sense a two way player like Bridges would have a higher trade value

[Leetonidas]

I may very well be wrong, but I think folks are underestimating what landing someone like Trae would really cost. Who knows what is real, but if teams are offering 4 FRPs for Bridges... I'd say getting Trae will be expensive. I doubt we ever actually find out though. I don't think Trae is getting moved.

Those were probably shitty protected picks though. And the Spurs are in a unique position to trade with Atlanta because we own their picks. If they have to trade Young and bottom out, their own picks would be the highest value commodity they could hope to get in return

[scott]

1756146739621289991

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Anyone who thinks a Young/Wemby pairing wouldn't work is retarded. likewise anyone who thinks Wemby will be reduced to a lob threat because of Young is a retard.

Trae Young is not the idea PG but he is an elite PG in the league and scoffing the notion of trading for him is pretty dumb. If all SA has to give up are Hawks own picks/swaps returned to them and someone like Keldon + filler, i think you do that deal all day. i'd rather have a certainty that we will have an elite PG next to Wemby versus hoping we find one in the draft. Young has also had some pretty dominant playoff performances already. again, he is not my ideal PG, and he has flaws (like any other player does), but the fact that you have sniffers on this board scoffing the notion of pairing him with Wemby just speaks to how dumb some posters here are. i'm not saying break the bank for him, but if the price is right, and he wants to be here, pull the trigger. any BS about his teammates not liking him or whatever are from the same random sauces that the sniffers are quick to discredit when they talk about Spurs related rumors

So if we do not agree we are stupid.
Because he has had a couple of good playoff games.
He is not perfect but if you do not think it will work you are stupid.


How can anyone possibly argue this?

[MannyIsGod]

Being a declining contract doesn't provide justification for an overpay. And yes, right now it's looking like an overpay. He'll be making more next year than DJM, JJJ, Jalen Brunson, and Mikal Bridges, for example. There is still time for his contract to prove a bargain, but so far this season it's looking iffy... unless you also think someone like Jordan Poole's contract is a steal.

A team has to pay players. It doesn't have to overpay shitty ones. That's how teams end up with things like... I don't know, a .192 winning percentage.

And no, a contract like Collins isn't exactly what you want if you want to acquire a star. There is no requirement that you have overpaid, undersized backup centers who can't shoot or defend include in trades for stars. Exactly zero teams have ever looked at what Zach Collins has currently is and said "yeah, that's the perfect piece that makes this entire deal make sense". Looking back at the last few big trades... nope, none of them included a shitty overpaid Zach Collins-like negative asset. Maybe Bertans being passed around like a used up French whore to facilitate blockbuster moves for Gordon Hayward constitutes acquiring a star.

You're right, this ain't difficult, which makes it all that more impressive that you continually vomit all of this nonsense all over yourself.

I mean Vassel isn't really an overpay but an appropriate contract. You named some guys who are serious underpays which is why it looks like more. But given the way he's playing there's no real reaso nto believe Devin is an overpay.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

It's fine to say you think he is a bad defender, makes too much money, etc. that's not the same as thinking the pairing wouldn't be effective or that having Young would reduce Wemby to being a lob threat only. he also is not a "bad" shooter. he is definitely streaky and he's not curry obviously (no one is) but he's had seasons shooting 38% on high volume as the absolute focal point of his teams offense. What do you think he would be able to do with someone like Wemby taking attention off of him? not to mention he has averaged 9+ assists basically his entire career and he is a master of throwing lobs. his advanced numbers are solid, he grades out as an elite offensive player

Like i said in my original post - he is not the ideal PG, but to act like he and Wemby wouldnt make for a special pairing on offense is asinine. Yes he sucks on defense but with the right players around him that can be minimized, especially with Wemby in the paint. all i'm saying is if he is available for a decent price (meaning none of our own picks or Wemby/Vassell/maybe Sochan), you make the deal if he wants to be here.

So by your own report he is a streaky shooter to go on top of questionable defense and character. Foolproof obviously.

[SouthernFryd]

Trae Young signed a 5 year / $215,159,700 contract, no fucking way, not worth it... lets get a good pick and keep building

WTF?? 1/4 BILLION dollars for 5 years? For Trae Young? This league has gone all they way batshit crazy...

[CorrectCrusader]

Anyone who thinks a Young/Wemby pairing wouldn't work is retarded. likewise anyone who thinks Wemby will be reduced to a lob threat because of Young is a retard.

Trae Young is not the idea PG but he is an elite PG in the league and scoffing the notion of trading for him is pretty dumb. If all SA has to give up are Hawks own picks/swaps returned to them and someone like Keldon + filler, i think you do that deal all day. i'd rather have a certainty that we will have an elite PG next to Wemby versus hoping we find one in the draft. Young has also had some pretty dominant playoff performances already. again, he is not my ideal PG, and he has flaws (like any other player does), but the fact that you have sniffers on this board scoffing the notion of pairing him with Wemby just speaks to how dumb some posters here are. i'm not saying break the bank for him, but if the price is right, and he wants to be here, pull the trigger. any BS about his teammates not liking him or whatever are from the same random sauces that the sniffers are quick to discredit when they talk about Spurs related rumors

Fully agree, Trae is an offense in and of himself. He will allow Wemby to get his legs under him offensively without the team shitting its pants. Trae sucks at defense? Oh well at least you got possible greatest defender of all time behind him.

[manufan10]

What's laughable about the "He doesn't play defense" crowd is that outside of Wemby, no one on this team plays defense particularly well.

[rankingtear]

It is not really a perfect pairing. A combo ( pull up or downhill ) or secondary ball handling wing is the perfect pairing for Wemby. A star is a star i guess but if I am giving up 3 golden tickets, i want a perfect fit on the court and locker room ( especially if we are not winning yet ).

[Proxy]

he's not a perfect player and by god we need a perfect player, but not for a high asking price and must have a reasonable contract

[rankingtear]

In 2 years Trae can opt out and sign a 5 year / 320 million contract.

[JPB]

I think what he’s saying is that we should just drop all the lottery picks from the roster except Wemby. Thank goodness Spurs don’t get their GMs from Spurstalk.

Not saying they should but being lottey pick is not a factor as far as keeping a player or not... there's two who just got cut this past deadline and history shows many are out of the NBA before 5 years.

You should never fall in love too much with your picks.

[JPB]

People saying Trae doesn’t win games but he made it to the ECF with John Collins as his #2. You’re telling me having a generational talent like Wemby won’t fix the doubts you may have.

Fool's gold. Lakers made it to the WCF last year and they sucked ass, being dismantled but the Nuggets. And people were still figuring out Trae who was just overachieving that year, reason why you should always consider career record. Ever since, Atlanta regressed, as Trae stats did in the play offs, on offense and defense.

Atlanta is 10 th in the East now, at 23-29 fighting for a play in spot, catching a breath by beating Embiid-less PHI last night... you don't like Devin or Keldon freezing Wemby, watch Trae do his thing...

I mean Trae for cheap? I don't know, but there's certainly some team who will throw the farm at ATL for him and I sure don't want spurs to go all in for him then become the new Dallas only to see Wemby leave in 3 years.

[offset formation]

In 2 years Trae can opt out and sign a 5 year / 320 million contract.

Yeah, not great timing with Victor coming the year after. Two historically big max contracts at the same time from the Spurs front office seems antithetical to the way they've built the team in the past, but who knows. Certainly leaves this front office very little left to fill out a competitive roster. They might not have a choice but I feel like Trae might not be tge other guy of all the other available FAs in that time to secure a max deal from our front office.

[Gagnrath]

I'm not a Young fan he's not likely to improve much on Defense, is a get mine before all else player and doesn't seem to be worth his contract. Is he a good player? Yes, but he's over paid for his production and doesn't have good intangibles. If you could get him away from Atlanta cheap, that's fine but this is a give franchise player price for someone who is arguably overpaid. We aren't looking for Curry, or Lillard 10 years ago to pair with Wemby. We are looking for a guy who is where White was when the spurs got him, to be where White has been the last 2 years when Wemby starts coming into his own.

[TDMVPDPOY]

cant wait for trae

cant wait to see wemby leave in FA

lol spurm front office going after trash players

[Robz4000]

I will say this: at no point should the Spurs include their's or the Hawks' '25 first in any trade tbh.

[rankingtear]

Yeah, not great timing with Victor coming the year after. Two historically big max contracts at the same time from the Spurs front office seems antithetical to the way they've built the team in the past, but who knows. Certainly leaves this front office very little left to fill out a competitive roster. They might not have a choice but I feel like Trae might not be tge other guy of all the other available FAs in that time to secure a max deal from our front office.

Victor would also likely satisfy the Rose Rule and command 30% of the cap. The biggest rookie extension contract in NBA history. Combined those two would make 60% of the cap in 3 years time. For anyone saying another star would come when we get Trae, that accounts for 90-95% of the cap on 3 players.

[JPB]

People saying Trae doesn’t win games but he made it to the ECF with John Collins as his #2. You’re telling me having a generational talent like Wemby won’t fix the doubts you may have.

What happened when ATL added all star Murray?

[mo7888]

I may very well be wrong, but I think folks are underestimating what landing someone like Trae would really cost. Who knows what is real, but if teams are offering 4 FRPs for Bridges... I'd say getting Trae will be expensive. I doubt we ever actually find out though. I don't think Trae is getting moved.

I agree with Bum that that's too much. The bridges offer was probably highly protected picks.

My question is though, who would we be competing with for Trae and what do you think their offer would be? The answer to that determines if a trade is feasible or not. I'm generally in the same camp as you. I'd do it at a certain price, but Trae isn't worth overpaying for imo.

[RC_Drunkford]

Agree 100% with this. There seems to be two camps, one that doesn't want Trae at any price, and those who think we should get him at all costs.

I'm in the middle. I'd be happy to have him for the right price, but not giving up the farm for him. I'd probably go as big as TOR, SA '25, '26 Swap back to them, ATL '27, Keldon. But they also have to take Collins. (I probably try to keep Keldon out of it if I can).

I doubt that is enough to get it done, but it's as far as I'm willing to go. Trae would be fun and I think a definitely a positive addition to the team, but not good enough to want to go balls out for. If it were Maxey or Halliburton... now I'm ready to back up the truck. But not for Trae. I'd rather have DJM back at a fraction of what we got for him.

there ain't a lot of teams left that have picks to make an offer tbh. And the 2 that do, OKC and the Knicks, already have their All-Star PG. So I don't think ATL has that much room to push up the asking price. The Spurs can put up the best offer without giving up the farm. You give them what they gave us for DJ plus maybe Keldon and a high protected first.

[tbdog]

Another thing that might hold Spurs from entertaining any deep conversation regarding Tre, is that there is a real possibility that Luka might seek out from Mavs as earlier as next trade deadline. I dare say by the 2025 off season, Luka could be gettable. Now that offer would have to be huge. We are talking about 5 unprotected picks plus 2 good players. Where as Tre could be as low as 3 or 4 picks plus 1 good player.

[Dverde]

Trae the coach killer playing for the league’s oldest coach could be a deadly combination

[spurraider21]

I mean, the alternative was paying a Fred Van Vleet a ton of money.

And, yes, you need to understand the importance of reasonable salary slots attached to decent players. If you did want to get a Trae Young you have to bundle up some players in addition to draft picks.

Again, this really isn't hard. The Spurs contracts are structured to ease or disappear when they may need to start paying other players or to give them flexibility. There are real reasons to complain about choices made. Relentlessly bitching and moaning about these contracts aren't.
:lmao continuing the meme that the spurs only options were to:

a) do exactly what they did
b) max out Vanvleet

with nothing in between

[offset formation]

Victor would also likely satisfy the Rose Rule and command 30% of the cap. The biggest rookie extension contract in NBA history. Combined those two would make 60% of the cap in 3 years time. For anyone saying another star would come when we get Trae, that accounts for 90-95% of the cap on 3 players.

Yup. Lakers situation almost. At least we would still have picks.

[K...]

:lmao continuing the meme that the spurs only options were to:

a) do exactly what they did
b) max out Vanvleet

with nothing in between

van fleet is just a placeholder for what it a tepid FA class last and this year. replace with austin reeves, the corpse of chris paul, etc. So many people aren't willing to say what exactly they'd do and instead say the spurs are wrong. Judgement must be made in context to be fair.

[offset formation]

I will say this: at no point should the Spurs include their's or the Hawks' '25 first in any trade tbh.

Finally someone that gets it. Thank you Robz.

Those picks are likely going to turn into fucking gold while we will or SHOULD be much lower on draft day in future years.

Those Atlanta picks are precisely how this team goes on another sustained 20 year run of greatness.

[Robz4000]

Finally someone that gets it. Thank you Robz.

Those picks are likely going to turn into fucking gold while we will or SHOULD be much lower on draft day in future years.

Those Atlanta picks are precisely how this team goes on another sustained 20 year run of greatness.

I'm fine including the '27 pick in the right trade but '25 and '26 have generational-level players in Flagg and Boozer coming out. Hard to turn down a shot at them.

[exstatic]

I'm fine including the '27 pick in the right trade but '25 and '26 have generational-level players in Flagg and Boozer coming out. Hard to turn down a shot at them.

Plus,if you trade back the ‘25 pick and Atlanta hits the jackpot, your ‘27 just turned to shit.

[Frenchfred]

Victor would also likely satisfy the Rose Rule and command 30% of the cap. The biggest rookie extension contract in NBA history. Combined those two would make 60% of the cap in 3 years time. For anyone saying another star would come when we get Trae, that accounts for 90-95% of the cap on 3 players.

That pretty much insure that there won't be a 3rd star and let's say that the Spurs would be lucky to get a guy like Flagg or Boozer that we wouldn't be able to resign them at the end of their rookie contract

[ambchang]

Not saying they should but being lottey pick is not a factor as far as keeping a player or not... there's two who just got cut this past deadline and history shows many are out of the NBA before 5 years.

You should never fall in love too much with your picks.

But only the spurs FO are retards because their late lottery picks didn’t turn out to be Halliburton.

[LeBowen]

I'm fine including the '27 pick in the right trade but '25 and '26 have generational-level players in Flagg and Boozer coming out. Hard to turn down a shot at them.

So you'd keep the pick based on like 5% chance to hit the jackpot?
If Hawks keep Trae, those picks won't be top5.
If Hawks trade Trae somewhere else, they won't tank because they won't own their picks.

Over the past 20 years I never hated anything more than fans of awful franchises basing their entire rebuild on draft lottery luck.
Now our fanbase is at that point.

When will you realize that Spurs are probably the luckiest franchise in history and that we hit multiple jackpots.
Stop with the "maybe we get Flagg or Boozer" nonsense.

Right now we're a team that's getting shit on by every team with like three good NBA players and things need to change quickly if we want to keep Wemby happy.
He had zero easy looks against the Nets, these scrubs are incapable of running a single play to get their 7'4 center an easy bucket. It's fucking embarrassing.
If not for Wemby, this roster would legit break all the negative records and finish the season with like 4 wins or some shit.

Do you understand the extent of how awful this team is?

[CGD]

The Spurs<>Trae chatter all seems to be one way. As in coming from the Trae camp. Not sure SA has any serious interest at this point.

[R. DeMurre]

Trae would be a short term/small picture addition. An improved & acclimated Wemby next season + Trae would mean the Spurs reach the play in, but that's a low bar for this franchise. Ultimately, for a team thinking big picture/long term, the goal is championships, not first or second round playoff exits, and not a financial inflexibility that limits growth. In my opinion, Trae raises the floor and lowers the ceiling, and makes a future title less likely rather than more likely. A team like Sacramento, given their history, can be happy making the playoffs with little chance of winning a title, but I think San Antonio's ultimate goals are higher than that.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Let's say that Young can bee gotten at a reasonable price. Draft picks do gain value as the draft becomes bird in hand at seasons end. I can see it happening.

Young undoubtedly helps a lot of offensive woes. Pick and roll with Wemby and Young would be lethal.

He does trivialize Jones on offense as much as Young handles the ball but he does open the door for Wesley. The issue with that backcourt -assuming Wesley keeps developing his defensive chops- is size. I would think the ideal backcourt pairing for Young would be a 3-D swing type of the Verdes mold.

[exstatic]

So you'd keep the pick based on like 5% chance to hit the jackpot?
If Hawks keep Trae, those picks won't be top5.
If Hawks trade Trae somewhere else, they won't tank because they won't own their picks.

Over the past 20 years I never hated anything more than fans of awful franchises basing their entire rebuild on draft lottery luck.
Now our fanbase is at that point.

When will you realize that Spurs are probably the luckiest franchise in history and that we hit multiple jackpots.
Stop with the "maybe we get Flagg or Boozer" nonsense.

Right now we're a team that's getting shit on by every team with like three good NBA players and things need to change quickly if we want to keep Wemby happy.
He had zero easy looks against the Nets, these scrubs are incapable of running a single play to get their 7'4 center an easy bucket. It's fucking embarrassing.
If not for Wemby, this roster would legit break all the negative records and finish the season with like 4 wins or some shit.

Do you understand the extent of how awful this team is?

Wait, if Trae is the fucking Superman you say he is, trading him is an automatic tank. Did you even read that sentence before you pressed post?

[LeBowen]

Did you even read that sentence before you pressed post?

Did you even read it before you replied to it?
Spurs and Nets are the only teams that need a point guard and could trade for Trae with just picks and no good players going the other way.
Nets would have to give up those Suns picks and even those aren't guaranteed to be top5, you never know.

Every other trade would have to involve good players, like what happened with Suns-Nets and Bridges/Johnson going the other way.
Hawks would have no incentive to bottom out because they don't own their picks. They'd be bad, but they would compete.

Those Hawks picks aren't getting into top5 unless they're back with the Hawks or unless we get massively lucky in the lottery.
Don't get me wrong, those picks are still some of the best assets in the league and I'm sure can provide great value, but in my opinion hoping to get another top3 pick from those is just grasping for straws.

Jaylen Brown in 2016 was the last top5 pick that was owned by another team outright. That was a pick from KG/Pierce trade.
Before that you have to go all the way back to 2011 Kyrie draft and Clippers being idiots.

Right now, Spurs have:
1. The best prospect in 20 years who's showing he's worth the hype.
2. Second most first round picks after OKC and a ton of second round picks, I lost count.
3. A ton of cap space. $36M under the next season's projected cap if noone's traded. And every contract is easily moveable.
4. Wemby aside, the worst roster in the league. Take out the best player from all the teams and we're easily the worst team in the league.
5. Wemby aside, two players with potential. Devin and Jeremy. With Devin already being under pressure to deliver because he got a big extension.

Idk about you, but I expect those people who are paid a lot of money in the front office to finally make some good roster moves because they haven't made one since 2011 draft.
Yes, there were some good moves since, but nothing that you could call a masterstroke.
They had the reputation of by far the best front office in the league, kept pulling out great players noone knew about out of their ass.
Nowdays 3 out of last 8 players drafted in the first round aren't on the team anymore and aren't even in the league except for Lonnie who's a bench player on a shit team.
Another one is more or less one of the worst players in the league (Branham) and Wesley is a long-term project who'll be a useful bench piece at best.
Keldon was great value considering his draft position, Vassell was a good pick even though better players went after and Wemby was a no-brainer.
That's a total of 1 no-brainer pick (Wemby), 1 great pick (Keldon) and 1 solid pick (Devin), with 5 failures (Lonnie, Samanic, Primo, Branham, Wesley).

Forgive me, but I just don't have any optimism when it comes to current version of PATFO making trades or drafting players.
Yes, they can still develop them on a solid level, but we need more than reclamation projects and charity cases.


TL;DR
We have seen plenty of legit superstars waste their careers on mediocre teams because their front offices were incompetent.
We have also seen front offices that won with very little resources. Competent teams always prevail.
Right now PATFO is on incompetent side.
We've got the best prospect in the league, a ton of cap space and a shitton of picks.
It's time for them to get off their asses and make some good moves, it's been a while.
Hoping we hit another jackpot with another team's pick is a recipe for disaster.

[Davidicus]

Makes a lot of sense but only way I’d do it is if Trae asks out of Atlanta, driving the price down.

[itzsoweezee]

Did you even read it before you replied to it?
Spurs and Nets are the only teams that need a point guard and could trade for Trae with just picks and no good players going the other way.
Nets would have to give up those Suns picks and even those aren't guaranteed to be top5, you never know.

Every other trade would have to involve good players, like what happened with Suns-Nets and Bridges/Johnson going the other way.
Hawks would have no incentive to bottom out because they don't own their picks. They'd be bad, but they would compete.

Those Hawks picks aren't getting into top5 unless they're back with the Hawks or unless we get massively lucky in the lottery.
Don't get me wrong, those picks are still some of the best assets in the league and I'm sure can provide great value, but in my opinion hoping to get another top3 pick from those is just grasping for straws.

Jaylen Brown in 2016 was the last top5 pick that was owned by another team outright. That was a pick from KG/Pierce trade.
Before that you have to go all the way back to 2011 Kyrie draft and Clippers being idiots.

Right now, Spurs have:
1. The best prospect in 20 years who's showing he's worth the hype.
2. Second most first round picks after OKC and a ton of second round picks, I lost count.
3. A ton of cap space. $36M under the next season's projected cap if noone's traded. And every contract is easily moveable.
4. Wemby aside, the worst roster in the league. Take out the best player from all the teams and we're easily the worst team in the league.
5. Wemby aside, two players with potential. Devin and Jeremy. With Devin already being under pressure to deliver because he got a big extension.

Idk about you, but I expect those people who are paid a lot of money in the front office to finally make some good roster moves because they haven't made one since 2011 draft.
Yes, there were some good moves since, but nothing that you could call a masterstroke.
They had the reputation of by far the best front office in the league, kept pulling out great players noone knew about out of their ass.
Nowdays 3 out of last 8 players drafted in the first round aren't on the team anymore and aren't even in the league except for Lonnie who's a bench player on a shit team.
Another one is more or less one of the worst players in the league (Branham) and Wesley is a long-term project who'll be a useful bench piece at best.
Keldon was great value considering his draft position, Vassell was a good pick even though better players went after and Wemby was a no-brainer.
That's a total of 1 no-brainer pick (Wemby), 1 great pick (Keldon) and 1 solid pick (Devin), with 5 failures (Lonnie, Samanic, Primo, Branham, Wesley).

Forgive me, but I just don't have any optimism when it comes to current version of PATFO making trades or drafting players.
Yes, they can still develop them on a solid level, but we need more than reclamation projects and charity cases.


TL;DR
We have seen plenty of legit superstars waste their careers on mediocre teams because their front offices were incompetent.
We have also seen front offices that won with very little resources. Competent teams always prevail.
Right now PATFO is on incompetent side.
We've got the best prospect in the league, a ton of cap space and a shitton of picks.
It's time for them to get off their asses and make some good moves, it's been a while.
Hoping we hit another jackpot with another team's pick is a recipe for disaster.

The funny part about popovich lamenting how players don’t know how to play basketball when they come into the league is the Spurs don’t draft guys with 3 or 4 years of college basketball experience. No one is forcing you to take on projects. Your scouting is obviously not very good. How about a different approach?

[JPB]

Makes a lot of sense but only way I’d do it is if Trae asks out of Atlanta, driving the price down.

We can teach him how to pull a Nephew Special.

[TD 21]

The funny part about popovich lamenting how players don’t know how to play basketball when they come into the league is the Spurs don’t draft guys with 3 or 4 years of college basketball experience. No one is forcing you to take on projects. Your scouting is obviously not very good. How about a different approach?

Basketball IQ doesn't have anything to do with experience.

[RC_Drunkford]

I'm pretty sure we're tanking next season too. There's nothing that indicates them wanting to improve the team by a wide margin. It will probably be more development and experiments with 2 new draft picks coming in and another tank for a strong 25 draft class.

[Raven]

the idea makes me want to vomit

[duncan2150]

I'm pretty sure we're tanking next season too. There's nothing that indicates them wanting to improve the team by a wide margin. It will probably be more development and experiments with 2 new draft picks coming in and another tank for a strong 25 draft class.

The real tank will depend on some vets additions via trade or fa, we'll see what's the plan during the offseason. Overall i also think the spurs will not rush anything.

[offset formation]

Did you even read it before you replied to it?
Spurs and Nets are the only teams that need a point guard and could trade for Trae with just picks and no good players going the other way.
Nets would have to give up those Suns picks and even those aren't guaranteed to be top5, you never know.

Every other trade would have to involve good players, like what happened with Suns-Nets and Bridges/Johnson going the other way.
Hawks would have no incentive to bottom out because they don't own their picks. They'd be bad, but they would compete.

Those Hawks picks aren't getting into top5 unless they're back with the Hawks or unless we get massively lucky in the lottery.
Don't get me wrong, those picks are still some of the best assets in the league and I'm sure can provide great value, but in my opinion hoping to get another top3 pick from those is just grasping for straws.

Jaylen Brown in 2016 was the last top5 pick that was owned by another team outright. That was a pick from KG/Pierce trade.
Before that you have to go all the way back to 2011 Kyrie draft and Clippers being idiots.

Right now, Spurs have:
1. The best prospect in 20 years who's showing he's worth the hype.
2. Second most first round picks after OKC and a ton of second round picks, I lost count.
3. A ton of cap space. $36M under the next season's projected cap if noone's traded. And every contract is easily moveable.
4. Wemby aside, the worst roster in the league. Take out the best player from all the teams and we're easily the worst team in the league.
5. Wemby aside, two players with potential. Devin and Jeremy. With Devin already being under pressure to deliver because he got a big extension.

Idk about you, but I expect those people who are paid a lot of money in the front office to finally make some good roster moves because they haven't made one since 2011 draft.
Yes, there were some good moves since, but nothing that you could call a masterstroke.
They had the reputation of by far the best front office in the league, kept pulling out great players noone knew about out of their ass.
Nowdays 3 out of last 8 players drafted in the first round aren't on the team anymore and aren't even in the league except for Lonnie who's a bench player on a shit team.
Another one is more or less one of the worst players in the league (Branham) and Wesley is a long-term project who'll be a useful bench piece at best.
Keldon was great value considering his draft position, Vassell was a good pick even though better players went after and Wemby was a no-brainer.
That's a total of 1 no-brainer pick (Wemby), 1 great pick (Keldon) and 1 solid pick (Devin), with 5 failures (Lonnie, Samanic, Primo, Branham, Wesley).

Forgive me, but I just don't have any optimism when it comes to current version of PATFO making trades or drafting players.
Yes, they can still develop them on a solid level, but we need more than reclamation projects and charity cases.


TL;DR
We have seen plenty of legit superstars waste their careers on mediocre teams because their front offices were incompetent.
We have also seen front offices that won with very little resources. Competent teams always prevail.
Right now PATFO is on incompetent side.
We've got the best prospect in the league, a ton of cap space and a shitton of picks.
It's time for them to get off their asses and make some good moves, it's been a while.
Hoping we hit another jackpot with another team's pick is a recipe for disaster.

They're one or two injuries or trades away from the lottery, man. You simply don't give up those picks when your goal as a team is to be nowhere near the draft lottery after next season. Though thinking about it, RC_Drunkford may be right that PATFO goes all in on another season of tanking. That said, if they do, they might as well hire Wemby's moving van now.

[LeBowen]

They're one or two injuries or trades away from the lottery, man.

...idk what to say anymore.
I write a wall of text about how and why our front office shouldn't be building around things that aren't guaranteed to happen and then you write that.
Every team except for the two top contenders is one or two injuries away from the lottery.
Should PATFO sit and pray someone gets injured?

[offset formation]

...idk what to say anymore.
I write a wall of text about how and why our front office shouldn't be building around things that aren't guaranteed to happen and then you write that.
Every team except for the two top contenders is one or two injuries away from the lottery.
Should PATFO sit and pray someone gets injured?

And I read and agreed with much of your wall of text, and rebutted where I disagreed. We have plenty of other draft picks and a summer of free agency pending with which to get better. All I'm saying is, you don't just wistfully throw away possible gold my man.

As you properly noted, we have lots of money and other draft picks to go after a giant in free agency OR two or three really good ones...

For example: Jrue Holiday, Miles Bridges, Tyrese Maxey Restricted), Kentavious Caldwell-Pope, Malik Monk, Buddy Hield, OG Anunoby. Paul George and The Beard are also possibilities, though more doubtful given what they've got going on.

You sign two or three of those guys, and this team is likely playoff bound next year. Meanwhile, perhaps there's a trade demand or an injury to Atlanta and you've got gold heading into a much better draft class in two years. Add that on to whatever we pick up in this year's draft class with maybe two top 7 or 8 picks...now we start cooking with grease.

Just don't be in such so rush to dump those ATL picks just yet man.

[scott]

I'm pretty sure we're tanking next season too. There's nothing that indicates them wanting to improve the team by a wide margin. It will probably be more development and experiments with 2 new draft picks coming in and another tank for a strong 25 draft class.

I agree with this, and I think there is a strong chance you can write the exact same thing a year from now. Pop and Wright have the cushiest jobs in the NBA. No expectations, no accountability... just big paychecks and "patience"

Until the ownership of the team starts demanding results, we'll just keep hearing about how we need to trust some undefined, never-ending process.

[Spursfanfromafar]

I agree with this, and I think there is a strong chance you can write the exact same thing a year from now. Pop and Wright have the cushiest jobs in the NBA. No expectations, no accountability... just big paychecks and "patience"

Until the ownership of the team starts demanding results, we'll just keep hearing about how we need to trust some undefined, never-ending process.

I hope this is not the case. Even the Spurs should know.. as the Hinkie Sixers, the recent Detroit Pistons and the Houston Rockets experiments show.. Extending the "development" phase indefinitely will only breed mediocrity and develop nothing.

The Spurs *must* get at least a couple of good FAs to speed up Wemby's development, i.e. playing with decent players and not a glorified G-League squad.

[objective]

I don't know why people post about Young's rep for getting coaches fired as a bad thing

That might be a good thing for SA

[scott]

I hope this is not the case. Even the Spurs should know.. as the Hinkie Sixers, the recent Detroit Pistons and the Houston Rockets experiments show.. Extending the "development" phase indefinitely will only breed mediocrity and develop nothing.

The Spurs *must* get at least a couple of good FAs to speed up Wemby's development, i.e. playing with decent players and not a glorified G-League squad.

I sure hope so, but I have lost all faith in this FO.

[pad300]

I'm pretty sure we're tanking next season too. There's nothing that indicates them wanting to improve the team by a wide margin. It will probably be more development and experiments with 2 new draft picks coming in and another tank for a strong 25 draft class.

I doubt it. It has been possible to effectively tank this year, what with the point Sochan experiment. (Don't be surprised to see that return at the end of the season if the tank chase gets tight.) But next year, with Wemby acclimatized to the NBA? Unless he gets a major injury, we are not making the bottom 6, no way no how. Thus, there is little point in deliberate tanking and assorted line up bullshit will fade away...

[RC_Drunkford]

I doubt it. It has been possible to effectively tank this year, what with the point Sochan experiment. (Don't be surprised to see that return at the end of the season if the tank chase gets tight.) But next year, with Wemby acclimatized to the NBA? Unless he gets a major injury, we are not making the bottom 6, no way no how. Thus, there is little point in deliberate tanking and assorted line up bullshit will fade away...

I mean I thought the same this offseason, but here we are. And even with Tre Jones at PG and Sochan at PF we're garbage. Super garbage. The team should be better next season and might not be in the bottom 6, but unless they are making the play-in, I'd still call it a tank even if they try to win. Pop certainly didn't plan on losing this many games at the start of the season.

[Chinook]

Basketball IQ doesn't have anything to do with experience.

What? That's like saying regular IQ doesn't have anything to do with education. The BG Spurs weren't just all psychic-brain folks. They had years of experience playing ball, playing with each other, playing in Pop's system, hanging out. Obviously, some players are smarter, observant or more intuitive than others. But BBIQ is very much about understanding the game and what to do, and that comes from experience. That's pretty apparent when you look at Wemby, who's very smart and intuitive but is making a ton of mistakes reading the floor because of his inexperience. If you put the Spurs players into situations and explain the right thing to do enough, they will be more likely to execute in those situations.

[TD 21]

What? That's like saying regular IQ doesn't have anything to do with education. The BG Spurs weren't just all psychic-brain folks. They had years of experience playing ball, playing with each other, playing in Pop's system, hanging out. Obviously, some players are smarter, observant or more intuitive than others. But BBIQ is very much about understanding the game and what to do, and that comes from experience. That's pretty apparent when you look at Wemby, who's very smart and intuitive but is making a ton of mistakes reading the floor because of his inexperience. If you put the Spurs players into situations and explain the right thing to do enough, they will be more likely to execute in those situations.

That's continuity and chemistry, not basketball IQ; which is innate.

[Chinook]

I think people need to accept that a major trade is going to cost the Spurs things they'd rather not trade. They aren't going to "leverage" the Hawks into taking only the redundant assets. They can protect one or two things, like Wemby, Vassell, the 2024 pick, or the 2025 picks. I'm not saying all of the unprotected things will go out -- I'd say most won't. But you have to come correct in this deals, and posters aren't willing to do that. Young is either a major piece of the puzzle or he isn't. If he's not, there's no reason to pussyfoot about this. Figure out who the major pieces and try to go for them. If he is, then you come correct and make the best deal you can. That's it. It's real simple.

[Chinook]

That's continuity and chemistry, not basketball IQ; which is innate.

Just like regular IQ is not innate, basketball IQ isn't. If you want to argue there are genetic factors that go into it, that's fine. But any expression of BBIQ is going to come in ways that experience and coaching will also factor into.

[BacktoBasics]

I agree with this, and I think there is a strong chance you can write the exact same thing a year from now. Pop and Wright have the cushiest jobs in the NBA. No expectations, no accountability... just big paychecks and "patience"

Until the ownership of the team starts demanding results, we'll just keep hearing about how we need to trust some undefined, never-ending process.

You see how many franchises out there that don’t have draft capital or coveted talent. A lot of teams made moves over the last 3-5 years that have buried themselves in playoff purgatory and still 1-2 players away from being serious contenders.

Not exercising patience has locked a bunch of teams up in bad spots.

I’m all for making moves and I think we will but can’t rush it. Being prudent now is a good move. I fully expect to see them loosen up a bit in the offseason.

[spurraider21]

Not getting Trae without giving them their 25 back. You’re getting an all nba caliber guard who just turned 25. There’s no pinching pennies. You either want him or you don’t

[Pauleta14]

I think people need to accept that a major trade is going to cost the Spurs things they'd rather not trade. They aren't going to "leverage" the Hawks into taking only the redundant assets. They can protect one or two things, like Wemby, Vassell, the 2024 pick, or the 2025 picks. I'm not saying all of the unprotected things will go out -- I'd say most won't. But you have to come correct in this deals, and posters aren't willing to do that. Young is either a major piece of the puzzle or he isn't. If he's not, there's no reason to pussyfoot about this. Figure out who the major pieces and try to go for them. If he is, then you come correct and make the best deal you can. That's it. It's real simple.

Why would you want to save Vassell?

to me he’s our best asset for a trade + draft picks

He’s shown too many limitations and will soon be overpaid in regard of what he brings.

[BacktoBasics]

Why would you want to save Vassell?

to me he’s our best asset for a trade + draft picks

He’s shown too many limitations and will soon be overpaid in regard of what he brings.

At some point you have to have more than 1 good player. If you’re gonna return a solidified all star for Vassell and picks fine but no such trade seems feasible to me. For example you’re not getting Tatum or someone of that level.

Vassell is perfect 3rd option who could heat up as a 2nd option on any given night. Like most of the players on our team Vassell greatly benefits from a real pg not an experiment.

He’s not someone I’d look to move unless it’s a wild no brainer.

[scott]

You see how many franchises out there that don’t have draft capital or coveted talent. A lot of teams made moves over the last 3-5 years that have buried themselves in playoff purgatory and still 1-2 players away from being serious contenders.

Not exercising patience has locked a bunch of teams up in bad spots.

I’m all for making moves and I think we will but can’t rush it. Being prudent now is a good move. I fully expect to see them loosen up a bit in the offseason.

I certainly hope we do. I’m just saying I don’t have faith we will. This FO hasn’t done much in the way of team building to inspire confidence in them. They’ve done a good job selling assets and sinking to the bottom… but appear fully content at staying there. We’ll see.

[Chinook]

Why would you want to save Vassell?

to me he’s our best asset for a trade + draft picks

He’s shown too many limitations and will soon be overpaid in regard of what he brings.

I think you misread the post? The argument I made is that the Spurs can only have one or two untouchable assets in trade discussions and that they need to pick from among that list what they want to protect. So Vassell may or may not be on the table in a trade, as could Risacher, Topic, Holland, Sarr or whoever the Spurs select with their pick, as could any of the Spurs' premium picks or other prospects. A number of posters want to protect most of those assets under the belief the Spurs could outbid most offers without involving those things. That's actually not true for reasons we've talked about. But even if it were true, that's not the attitude I think the Spurs can take into negotiations and be successful. They need to target what they consider to be the most important opportunities and offer aggressive packages with very little off the table for negotiation. Otherwise, the Spurs are going to end up with the Celtics under Ainge.

Also Vassell is fine.

[BacktoBasics]

I certainly hope we do. I’m just saying I don’t have faith we will. This FO hasn’t done much in the way of team building to inspire confidence in them. They’ve done a good job selling assets and sinking to the bottom… but appear fully content at staying there. We’ll see.

I get where you’re coming from but we can sell out just to make ourselves feel proactive. There is a process of evaluating and developing talent that takes time too. We’re not a big market team so leaning into our picks and selecting players that not only fit the bill for talent but fit the bill for culture. It matters that we get players that want to grow here and stick around. Trading our war chest of picks for an all star that just ends up leaving 2-3 years later isn’t a good outcome.

I’m not expecting anything super flashy. But after the draft I expect some movement and a more clear vision.

[scott]

I get where you’re coming from but we can sell out just to make ourselves feel proactive. There is a process of evaluating and developing talent that takes time too. We’re not a big market team so leaning into our picks and selecting players that not only fit the bill for talent but fit the bill for culture. It matters that we get players that want to grow here and stick around. Trading our war chest of picks for an all star that just ends up leaving 2-3 years later isn’t a good outcome.

I’m not expecting anything super flashy. But after the draft I expect some movement and a more clear vision.

I’m actually not in the boat of believing we need to sell our entire war chest for an all star. There are multiple ways to build the team, and I don’t think there is one right way (though we can all agree that there are lots of wrong ways). Which “right” way the team takes, I’m more indifferent to.

With that said, I do not think it will be acceptable to just simply add X number of draft picks this offseason, make one or two Cedi Osman-type moves (meaning, the kind of moves we made last off-season) and then just have the team preach patience and development while we are once again 10-43 and having this conversation again next year.

I just want to see some signs of a plan and PROGRESS. And I believe progress and successfully making that progress should come with a measuring stick. IMO, the measuring stick next season should be competing for a play-in spot (meaning we finish at least with in a few games of the final play-in spot). Short of that, I feel we should view next season as unsuccessful.

[SpursBills]

At what point in his development do we think Wemby can be a legitimate #1 option for a championship team both offensively and defensively? He's obviously the real deal and incredibly advanced for his age but let's face it 20 year old Wemby can't compare to true contender level #1's like 28 year old Jokic or 29 year old Embiid at this stage. He hasn't developed a go-to move, his conditioning needs a ton of work, he's an inefficient shooter, his handle is loose, and he hasn't figured out the spots where he wants to get the ball yet. That stuff takes years to improve even for a GOAT-level prospect like Wemby. The fact that he's averaging 20/10 with all-defense level defense already is a testament to his potential but he's got a long way to go.

Duncan won his first title at 23. Lebron even though he made the finals in 07, I'd say probably wasn't ready until the Orlando series in 09 when he was 24. Luka's currently 24. Jokic/Embiid/Giannis were probably ready around 26. If we assume Wemby will develop the necessary skills and stamina at age 24, that's still 4 seasons from now to surround him with a championship-caliber supporting cast. This year has been painful because the team is terrible, but sometimes I think we lose sight of just how long a period of time years can be and just how much can change in just a couple years. 4 years ago the Spurs starting lineup was Dejounte-Bryn Forbes-DeRozan-Trey Lyles-Aldridge. I think we will definitely see significant changes by the time Wemby is ready to be a true #1 on a championship contender.

[BacktoBasics]

I’m actually not in the boat of believing we need to sell our entire war chest for an all star. There are multiple ways to build the team, and I don’t think there is one right way (though we can all agree that there are lots of wrong ways). Which “right” way the team takes, I’m more indifferent to.

With that said, I do not think it will be acceptable to just simply add X number of draft picks this offseason, make one or two Cedi Osman-type moves (meaning, the kind of moves we made last off-season) and then just have the team preach patience and development while we are once again 10-43 and having this conversation again next year.

I just want to see some signs of a plan and PROGRESS. And I believe progress and successfully making that progress should come with a measuring stick. IMO, the measuring stick next season should be competing for a play-in spot (meaning we finish at least with in a few games of the final play-in spot). Short of that, I feel we should view next season as unsuccessful.

No disagreement from me on this. I’m of the belief that we should be improving to the point of being a firm play in team.

[Chinook]

I get where you’re coming from but we can sell out just to make ourselves feel proactive. There is a process of evaluating and developing talent that takes time too. We’re not a big market team so leaning into our picks and selecting players that not only fit the bill for talent but fit the bill for culture. It matters that we get players that want to grow here and stick around. Trading our war chest of picks for an all star that just ends up leaving 2-3 years later isn’t a good outcome.

I’m not expecting anything super flashy. But after the draft I expect some movement and a more clear vision.

My thing is that Young's price is almost meaningless to the question of if the Spurs should try to get him. The question is if adding him puts the team on the path to being a legit contender. If that answer's no, it doesn't matter if Young can be acquired without "emptying the war chest" -- he'd push the Spurs to a schedule they wouldn't know how to get off. That's true for Mitchell as well. That's part of why I like the idea of pursuing a much older vet star. Either you're getting a legit championship centerpiece to help drive Wemby while carrying the bulk of the load -- A Shaq to Wemby's Wade -- or you're getting a guy who can be a guiding light for the younger players without the same level of commitment to immediate success --a Millsap to Wemby's Jokic. People keep wanting to plan for the next five to 10 years of Wemby, but very few acquisitions they could make now are going to be relevant to that sort of timeline. There really isn't a point to looking for younger stars. If you already have them, that's fine. But they're often even more expensive to acquire than older stars, and they aren't ready.

[BacktoBasics]

My thing is that Young's price is almost meaningless to the question of if the Spurs should try to get him. The question is if adding him puts the team on the path to being a legit contender. If that answer's no, it doesn't matter if Young can be acquired without "emptying the war chest" -- he'd push the Spurs to a schedule they wouldn't know how to get off. That's true for Mitchell as well. That's part of why I like the idea of pursuing a much older vet star. Either you're getting a legit championship centerpiece to help drive Wemby while carrying the bulk of the load -- A Shaq to Wemby's Wade -- or you're getting a guy who can be a guiding light for the younger players without the same level of commitment to immediate success --a Millsap to Wemby's Jokic. People keep wanting to plan for the next five to 10 years of Wemby, but very few acquisitions they could make now are going to be relevant to that sort of timeline. There really isn't a point to looking for younger stars. If you already have them, that's fine. But they're often even more expensive to acquire than older stars, and they aren't ready.

Personally I like Trae but there’s a lot of examples where chasing that level of player doesn’t quite get you over the top. Suns, Nets, Cavs, Bulls and we’ll see how Indy ends up after the Siakam deal. Which I liked. Plenty of other examples too.

NY did well in all their moves this season and sat on their picks. Super smart.

Trae makes us a playoff team. Provided we don’t give up anyone but Keldon and picks. Then we’re a good 2-3 moves away from having a real conversation.

Whether that’s the right move is above my pay grade.

I personally would see if we end up with 2 picks in the top 10. If that ends up being two guys we like I think you make a handful of the remaining picks available.

I get the draft isn’t desirable but I’m not one of the ones who is sold that the draft is so weak we should have moved our picks before the deadline.

[TD 21]

Just like regular IQ is not innate, basketball IQ isn't. If you want to argue there are genetic factors that go into it, that's fine. But any expression of BBIQ is going to come in ways that experience and coaching will also factor into.

Spoken by someone who obviously never possessed it in a sport.

Of course, experience and coaching in a developmental stage can enhance it, but a low IQ player can never become a high IQ one.

[Chinook]

Spoken by someone who obviously never possessed it in a sport.

:rolleyes


Of course, experience and coaching in a developmental stage can enhance it, but a low IQ player can never become a high IQ one.

We could go around in circles on this, but frankly I'm not going to keep poking you with a stick as you burrow further into a semantic hole. The question of if a player can improve their play-recognition and ability to do the right thing in a given situation, the answer is yes. If you want to have a private definition of BBIQ to be some genetic thing, that's fine. All that means that your use of BBIQ captures less of the conversation than a more standard definition does. It's obvious one can improve one's understanding of basketball by studying it, experiencing it and being instructed on how to process it. That's true whether that's "enhancing" BBIQ or just part of building it in the first place. For example, if Vassell wanted to improve his ability to recognize when Wemby's open and how to get him the ball, and and Victor can sit down in a room, go over film and discuss what cues they use to determine their actions and how they can sync up their movements to create opportunities. Or Pop can call plays which are based on Vassell passing the ball to Wemby in a manufactured window and through repetition, Devin can learn how the timing and windows work.

That doesn't mean Vassell would turn into Manu, but if Devin (and Victor and all of the Spurs) is willing to put in the work, he can start to play smarter on the court.

[TD 21]

Stein: "There appears to be a growing market for Young. San Antonio tops the perceived list. It is believed in some corners of the league that Young would have interest in South Texas as a destination if he were forced to leave Atlanta."

"The Spurs have circulated for months among prominent league observers as a viable destination for Young's offensive gifts."

The Trae Trade Watch has commenced - Marc Stein (substack.com) (https://marcstein.substack.com/p/the-trae-trade-watch-has-commenced?utm_campaign=email-post&r=qtt3u&utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email)

[Kevin]

Stein: "There appears to be a growing market for Young. San Antonio tops the perceived list. It is believed in some corners of the league that Young would have interest in South Texas as a destination if he were forced to leave Atlanta."

The Trae Trade Watch has commenced - Marc Stein (substack.com) (https://marcstein.substack.com/p/the-trae-trade-watch-has-commenced?utm_campaign=email-post&r=qtt3u&utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email)

Great news!

[manufan10]

1757092926293790888

[Seventyniner]

The fit on paper is obvious. But it would still be a leap of faith on the part of the Spurs. Would Trae be okay as the #2 option? Trae would be #1 or at least #1a for the next couple of years, but if Victor makes the expected leap to MVP candidate in 2027 it would make no sense for him not to be the clear #1.

It's also possible, and maybe even probable, that Trae's efficiency on offense would go up on the Spurs; even young Victor would be by far the best teammate Trae has ever had.

Yes Trae is a bad defender, and with his stature it is unlikely he will ever even be average. But defense is only half of the game and it is possible to make up for deficiencies on defense by more than compensating on offense. That and it just isn't possible to have plus defenders at every position while having a great offense. Moves should be judged with the salary cap and other real-world constraints in mind.

[z0sa]

The fit on paper is obvious. But it would still be a leap of faith on the part of the Spurs. Would Trae be okay as the #2 option? Trae would be #1 or at least #1a for the next couple of years, but if Victor makes the expected leap to MVP candidate in 2027 it would make no sense for him not to be the clear #1.

It's also possible, and maybe even probable, that Trae's efficiency on offense would go up on the Spurs; even young Victor would be by far the best teammate Trae has ever had.

Yes Trae is a bad defender, and with his stature it is unlikely he will ever even be average. But defense is only half of the game and it is possible to make up for deficiencies on defense by more than compensating on offense. That and it just isn't possible to have plus defenders at every position while having a great offense. Moves should be judged with the salary cap and other real-world constraints in mind.

When you can funnel players to the defensive GOAT (calling it now, will die on this hill), it not only makes up for your shit defense -- it extends the peak/prime stage of your career by years. Look what funneling to Timmy D did for Manu and Tony (especially Manu). We've also got a solid defensive option in Blake as well as a guy who can defend 1-5, Sochan. Of course, it's possible we lose Sochan and/or Vassell, but I'm just saying, in a vacuum..

quick edit to clarify im talking about extending careers for Manu/Tony, not necessarily they were shit defenders.

[JPB]

At what point in his development do we think Wemby can be a legitimate #1 option for a championship team both offensively and defensively? He's obviously the real deal and incredibly advanced for his age but let's face it 20 year old Wemby can't compare to true contender level #1's like 28 year old Jokic or 29 year old Embiid at this stage. He hasn't developed a go-to move, his conditioning needs a ton of work, he's an inefficient shooter, his handle is loose, and he hasn't figured out the spots where he wants to get the ball yet. That stuff takes years to improve even for a GOAT-level prospect like Wemby. The fact that he's averaging 20/10 with all-defense level defense already is a testament to his potential but he's got a long way to go.

Duncan won his first title at 23. Lebron even though he made the finals in 07, I'd say probably wasn't ready until the Orlando series in 09 when he was 24. Luka's currently 24. Jokic/Embiid/Giannis were probably ready around 26. If we assume Wemby will develop the necessary skills and stamina at age 24, that's still 4 seasons from now to surround him with a championship-caliber supporting cast. This year has been painful because the team is terrible, but sometimes I think we lose sight of just how long a period of time years can be and just how much can change in just a couple years. 4 years ago the Spurs starting lineup was Dejounte-Bryn Forbes-DeRozan-Trey Lyles-Aldridge. I think we will definitely see significant changes by the time Wemby is ready to be a true #1 on a championship contender.

Yeah but that's the problem.

No one expects them to contend next year or within the next 3-4. It's not so much about patience, everyone agrees about, than about direction, about the "plan", and Pop's ITV, that doesn't sweat "significant changes", but on the contrary steaking with and spending those next 4 years developing that core that isn't probably not contending material IMO... Pop litterally said some of these guys would be around Wemby their whole career as if he sees them as the other elements of a big 3 around Victor...

It's year two of the rebuild and that doesn't look good in terms of development so far. Do the spurs want to spend the next 2-3 years just adding and developing picks only to realize after 4 years: "Oh wait, but they suck! We can talk about how spurs succesfully made late lottery picks valuable NBA players in the past, but that was within a winning culture, around HOFers, and without pressure for the youngsters. Today's Pop is supposed to develop them as the main guys, and all at the same time. That's totally different. That's a rebuild.

Spurs are kind of building a losing culture right now, and it's much harder to develop within that environment, which is exacty what Pop said in preseason. Winning cures and help for everything.... Losing exacerbates tensions, egos and individualism... Be careful not to become a wizards/pistons type of franchise. This team has been sucking for 2 years, and these kids want to win as much a everyone... At some point you're risking to ruin your players' motivation, confidence, accountability, and joy of playing BB.

[Kevin]

Spurs are a playoff team with Young and another year of growth from Wemby next season. If the Spurs hit on their pick this draft the big three is set.

[lefty]

https://x.com/LegionHoops/status/1757109369957994773

[exstatic]

I can’t take seriously any analyst who says the Lakers are in the short list conversation for any player who will require a boatload of picks, simply because they only have one FRP available to trade. That won’t change this summer, because the 31 FRP will be consecutive withe the 30 FRP.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

I can’t take seriously any analyst who says the Lakers are in the short list conversation for any player who will require a boatload of picks, simply because they only have one FRP available to trade. That won’t change this summer, because the 31 FRP will be consecutive withe the 30 FRP.

Come the draft the Lakers will be able to trade 3 first round picks and 3 swaps. They only owe 2 firsts as of right now - to NO (24 or 25) and Utah (27 and turns into a second right away if it doesn't convey).

[exstatic]

Come the draft the Lakers will be able to trade 3 first round picks and 3 swaps. They only owe 2 firsts as of right now - to NO (24 or 25) and Utah (27 and turns into a second right away if it doesn't convey).

New Orleans has been buttfucking them by continuing to defer that pick. Revenge is a dish best served cold. Steal our franchise player, and we’ll cock block your next decade’s worth of trades.

You’re right about the having two FRPs to trade. I was thinking their 2029 was gone, but they can trade the 29 and 31 FRPs in July. That’s still not going to pull Trae young, so I still can’t take Laker chatter serious on any big deal, nor any analyst who pedals it.

[exstatic]

Come the draft the Lakers will be able to trade 3 first round picks and 3 swaps. They only owe 2 firsts as of right now - to NO (24 or 25) and Utah (27 and turns into a second right away if it doesn't convey).

Nope. Only 29 and 31. If New Orleans takes the pick this year, it blocks 25. The traded 27 pick blocks 26.

[spurraider21]

New Orleans has been buttfucking them by continuing to defer that pick. Revenge is a dish best served cold. Steal our franchise player, and we’ll cock block your next decade’s worth of trades.

You’re right about the having two FRPs to trade. I was thinking their 2029 was gone, but they can trade the 29 and 31 FRPs in July. That’s still not going to pull Trae young, so I still can’t take Laker chatter serious on any big deal, nor any analyst who pedals it.
wasnt the 2024 pick the only one that came with a deferment?

[exstatic]

wasnt the 2024 pick the only one that came with a deferment?

It was actually 23,24,25 New Orleans choice. They deferred last year. What a dumbass Rob Pelinka is.

[scott]

Fun game of chess/chicken NOLA gets to play. Say the Lakers slipped out of the playoffs, and take it a step further and say they move into the Top 4 via the lottery. Does NOLA take the Top 4 pick in hand in a weak draft... or do they roll the dice on a Lakers team that could possibly lose LeBron in the offseason.

This is the kind of decision that could get people fired. Bet they didn't think of that when they negotiated that pick :lol

[Ariel]

New Orleans has been buttfucking them by continuing to defer that pick. Revenge is a dish best served cold. Steal our franchise player, and we’ll cock block your next decade’s worth of trades.

You’re right about the having two FRPs to trade. I was thinking their 2029 was gone, but they can trade the 29 and 31 FRPs in July. That’s still not going to pull Trae young, so I still can’t take Laker chatter serious on any big deal, nor any analyst who pedals it.

Nope. Only 29 and 31. If New Orleans takes the pick this year, it blocks 25. The traded 27 pick blocks 26.
If the Pelicans use the '24 pick (unlikely), the Lakers can also trade their '25 pick. And if the Pelicans defer (more likely), the Lakers can't "trade" their '24 pick (because they'd owe the '25 one) but they can select a player for another team and trade his draft rights after taking him. So for all practical purposes they have 3 first rounders to trade rather than 2 (picks in '24/'25, '29, '31 + swaps in '26, '28, '30).

So they could do a Reaves + DeAngelo Russell + Hood Schifino + Max Christie + 3 unprotected FRPs ('24/'25 + '29 + '31) + 3 unprotected swaps for ('26 + '28 + '30) for Trae. I think that's a competitive offer, not sure they Hawks could get so much more from another team.

[Chinook]

Nope. Only 29 and 31. If New Orleans takes the pick this year, it blocks 25. The traded 27 pick blocks 26.

If NOP takes the pick this year, the 2025 pick is free to trade starting on draft day. The Stepien Rule only applies to future picks and doesn't care about picks traded in the past. During the draft (either 24 or 25), 29 and 31 are all available to trade.

[exstatic]

If the Pelicans use the '24 pick (unlikely), the Lakers can also trade their '25 pick. And if the Pelicans defer (more likely), the Lakers can't "trade" their '24 pick (because they'd owe the '25 one) but they can select a player for another team and trade his draft rights after taking him. So for all practical purposes they have 3 first rounders to trade rather than 2 (picks in '24/'25, '29, '31 + swaps in '26, '28, '30).

So they could do a Reaves + DeAngelo Russell + Hood Schifino + Max Christie + 3 unprotected FRPs ('24/'25 + '29 + '31) + 3 unprotected swaps for ('26 + '28 + '30) for Trae. I think that's a competitive offer, not sure they Hawks could get so much more from another team.

The 31 pick doesn’t become available for trade until the new league year in July. They can’t trade it on draft night. If LA picks a player with this year’s pick, and doesn’t trade him by 30 June, there’s a 30 day window when they can’t trade his player rights. Happened to Wiggins after Cleveland drafted him, and then found out that LeBron was returning, and wanted KLove. I’m sure Atlanta will wait, and not continue to talk to other teams.

[exstatic]

If NOP takes the pick this year, the 2025 pick is free to trade starting on draft day. The Stepien Rule only applies to future picks and doesn't care about picks traded in the past. During the draft (either 24 or 25), 29 and 31 are all available to trade.

31 is not available until July, and if deferring screws over LA, then NO will defer, barring lightning striking and the Lakers winning the lottery.

[Ariel]

The 31 pick doesn’t become available for trade until the new league year in July. They can’t trade it on draft night. If LA picks a player with this year’s pick, and doesn’t trade him by 30 June, there’s a 30 day window when they can’t trade his player rights. Happened to Wiggins after Cleveland drafted him, and then found out that LeBron was returning, and wanted KLove. I’m sure Atlanta will wait, and not continue to talk to other teams.
I believe that restriction applies only if the player is signed, not drafted. So they could draft him, wait a few days until July, then trade his rights and have the new team sign him. That's what happened with Walker Kessler in the '22 draft, he was picked by Minnesota then his draft rights were traded to Utah a few days later in the Gobert trade, then he signed his rookie deal.

[spurraider21]

It was actually 23,24,25 New Orleans choice. They deferred last year. What a dumbass Rob Pelinka is.
2023 was a pick swap that didnt end up mattering since the pelicans natural pick was better

is this incorrect?

https://i.gyazo.com/fa5a2f34ce1dc1546fa3b52ec44dd8cb.png

[Chinook]

31 is not available until July, and if deferring screws over LA, then NO will defer, barring lightning striking and the Lakers winning the lottery.

No, it's available starting draft day. The Stepien rule says you can only trade future picks seven years out. The 2024 pick ceases to be a future pick on draft day. It's not based on the league year like you seem to be implying.

Why are you being weird about this? The Lakers can trade three picks, even if they might need to trade those in the form of rights. Whether that's enough for Young is another matter, but they aren't nearly as restricted as you thought, and that's why folks are floating them as an option

[RC_Drunkford]

If the Pelicans use the '24 pick (unlikely), the Lakers can also trade their '25 pick. And if the Pelicans defer (more likely), the Lakers can't "trade" their '24 pick (because they'd owe the '25 one) but they can select a player for another team and trade his draft rights after taking him. So for all practical purposes they have 3 first rounders to trade rather than 2 (picks in '24/'25, '29, '31 + swaps in '26, '28, '30).

So they could do a Reaves + DeAngelo Russell + Hood Schifino + Max Christie + 3 unprotected FRPs ('24/'25 + '29 + '31) + 3 unprotected swaps for ('26 + '28 + '30) for Trae. I think that's a competitive offer, not sure they Hawks could get so much more from another team.

I wouldn't even be mad if that happens, cause those Hawks picks would be incredible for us in that scenario :lol

[LeBowen]

While we're at NOLA, what happened to those Herb Jones rumors?
Imo, if he's available, he should be the #1 target.
One of the best defenders in the league, made great improvements to his shot and is on 41% on 3.5 attempts this season.
25 years old and on a bargain contract up until 2027.

Doesn't get any better if we talk Wemby fit, imo.
If he's unhappy and wants out, easily worth two first rounders.

[Ariel]

I wouldn't even be mad if that happens, cause those Hawks picks would be incredible for us in that scenario :lol
In that case I would expect Atlanta to trade those picks for immediate help rather than waiting to use them. Remember what a single future Laker first ('27 top 4 protected) got them from Utah/Minnesota (DLo, Vanderbilt, Beasley), if they use those picks wisely it could give them a much more well rounded team immediately. It depends on how they execute more than anything.

[TD 21]

The national media will undoubtedly attempt to will Young to the Lakers if/when this becomes a full blown story by the off season, but they can't compete with what the Spurs can offer, who have the number one currency extant: Three unprotected/swap rights Hawks picks.

The Spurs may not have a young player who makes a ton of sense for them, but if they don't want Johnson, it shouldn't be much trouble to find someone who does. Whoever that team is can either give them a young player they do want or even more draft capital/salary relief.

I would think only Wembanyama, Vassell, Sochan (J. Johnson is a better version, so I doubt they'd care) and the natural '24 1st would be off limits.



We could go around in circles on this, but frankly I'm not going to keep poking you with a stick as you burrow further into a semantic hole. The question of if a player can improve their play-recognition and ability to do the right thing in a given situation, the answer is yes. If you want to have a private definition of BBIQ to be some genetic thing, that's fine. All that means that your use of BBIQ captures less of the conversation than a more standard definition does. It's obvious one can improve one's understanding of basketball by studying it, experiencing it and being instructed on how to process it. That's true whether that's "enhancing" BBIQ or just part of building it in the first place. For example, if Vassell wanted to improve his ability to recognize when Wemby's open and how to get him the ball, and and Victor can sit down in a room, go over film and discuss what cues they use to determine their actions and how they can sync up their movements to create opportunities. Or Pop can call plays which are based on Vassell passing the ball to Wemby in a manufactured window and through repetition, Devin can learn how the timing and windows work.

That doesn't mean Vassell would turn into Manu, but if Devin (and Victor and all of the Spurs) is willing to put in the work, he can start to play smarter on the court.

Understanding is not the same as IQ. There's plenty of players who eventually recognize patterns and situations, but are still more reactive than proactive and never get to the point of manipulating the opposition.



While we're at NOLA, what happened to those Herb Jones rumors?
Imo, if he's available, he should be the #1 target.
One of the best defenders in the league, made great improvements to his shot and is on 41% on 3.5 attempts this season.
25 years old and on a bargain contract up until 2027.

Doesn't get any better if we talk Wemby fit, imo.
If he's unhappy and wants out, easily worth two first rounders.

I doubt they're shopping him. He's probably only available in a scenario where they'd be acquiring a player of significance.

[scott]

^My list of untouchables would only include Wemby, our '24, and one of the SA/ATL '25 & '27. I don't want to go pick-less in those drafts, but in many respects I'd rather bet ourselves and send out our pick and keep ATLs, but I understand they will be the thing ATL wants most.

Everything else is open for discussion, IMO. Aside from Wemby, there are no sacred cows amongst this heard of heifers.

[TD 21]

I meant it more so from the standpoint of how I think the Spurs would go about it.

Granted, I'd be similar minus Sochan.

I doubt the Spurs would go without a 1st in any draft.

[LeBowen]

I wouldn't trade any Spurs pick unless it's a trade for a legit superstar.
ATL picks for a superstar or Trae if it's just those three picks and they also take Collins+Keldon. I'm sure they'll ask for at least 4 from other teams.

Others are up for grabs.
I wouldn't trade Jeremy or Devin unless it's a good offer, but if it was let's say just 2FRP+Devin for Trae, I'd do it.

Everyone else can go as far as I'm concerned.

[gambit1990]

"sometimes you feel for [wemby], sometimes he has some open looks and they don't get it to him":


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ak9xd3RshcQ&ab_channel=ChazNBA

[Frenchfred]

If the Pelicans use the '24 pick (unlikely), the Lakers can also trade their '25 pick. And if the Pelicans defer (more likely), the Lakers can't "trade" their '24 pick (because they'd owe the '25 one) but they can select a player for another team and trade his draft rights after taking him. So for all practical purposes they have 3 first rounders to trade rather than 2 (picks in '24/'25, '29, '31 + swaps in '26, '28, '30).

So they could do a Reaves + DeAngelo Russell + Hood Schifino + Max Christie + 3 unprotected FRPs ('24/'25 + '29 + '31) + 3 unprotected swaps for ('26 + '28 + '30) for Trae. I think that's a competitive offer, not sure they Hawks could get so much more from another team.

that's a really good offer but I doubt that LA sends Reaves, they would essentially have three players: old Lebron, injury happy David and no-defense Young and won't have any picks for the next decade. That's a huge gamble. I think that Atlanta accept your offer even without Reaves as all the picks starting 26 will likely be high.

[CorrectCrusader]

I will say this: at no point should the Spurs include their's or the Hawks' '25 first in any trade tbh.

I really don't understand this. Lakers have nothing to offer for Trae and the hawks won't pull the trigger on them. They'll have I think 3 first rounders available next season to trade?
You'd be trading an admittedly possibly great draft pick for a PERENNIAL YOUNG ALLSTAR. Guys come on. Even if we get lucky in the '25 draft, you still have no clue if flagg or bailey will be even close to as good as Trae Young is now.

Trade the mystery box for a boat, because even though the box could be a yacht, it could also be a piece of horse shit. (much more likely btw)

[Ariel]

If the Pelicans use the '24 pick (unlikely), the Lakers can also trade their '25 pick. And if the Pelicans defer (more likely), the Lakers can't "trade" their '24 pick (because they'd owe the '25 one) but they can select a player for another team and trade his draft rights after taking him. So for all practical purposes they have 3 first rounders to trade rather than 2 (picks in '24/'25, '29, '31 + swaps in '26, '28, '30).

So they could do a Reaves + DeAngelo Russell + Hood Schifino + Max Christie + 3 unprotected FRPs ('24/'25 + '29 + '31) + 3 unprotected swaps for ('26 + '28 + '30) for Trae. I think that's a competitive offer, not sure they Hawks could get so much more from another team.that's a really good offer but I doubt that LA sends Reaves, they would essentially have three players: old Lebron, injury happy David and no-defense Young and won't have any picks for the next decade. That's a huge gamble. I think that Atlanta accept your offer even without Reaves as all the picks starting 26 will likely be high.
Maybe, but the point I was making was that the Lakers could definitely put together a strong offer if they wanted. Whether they will actually go for it is a different matter and there's no way to tell, but they absolutely can.

[Mr. Body]

Maybe, but the point I was making was that the Lakers could definitely put together a strong offer if they wanted. Whether they will actually go for it is a different matter and there's no way to tell, but they absolutely can.

You're on the right track, I think. It will be Trae Young, Donovan Mitchell, a player of that ilk. Clearing those FRPs will be the key. I think they could manage with two of them, unprotected, a swap or two, JHS, Christie. I have a feeling the Lakers will be fine moving Reaves especially if they faceplant in the playoffs/play-in or it can be Hachimura joining Russell instead.

Thinking about it, I do think they'll have to offer 3 picks. Checking their roster they have no good young players, lol. I think they can trade the other portion of the 2027 pick they owe Utah. Right now it's protected 1-4, but they could give it to Atlanta protected 5-30. Maybe better than including a different pick.

[RC_Drunkford]

In that case I would expect Atlanta to trade those picks for immediate help rather than waiting to use them. Remember what a single future Laker first ('27 top 4 protected) got them from Utah/Minnesota (DLo, Vanderbilt, Beasley), if they use those picks wisely it could give them a much more well rounded team immediately. It depends on how they execute more than anything.

Maybe, but they also traded 3 picks and a swap for some help and got worse

[Blizzardwizard]

Chances of a better player at as young an age (at a position of need) becoming available for trade in the coming years to pair with Wemby is pretty miniscule.

The chance of that player having San Antonio as their first choice (as has been mooted by Stein) is even smaller.

The chance of the Spurs having the best leverage of any team in a future trade race by virtue of owning the picks of the team they'd be dealing with is smaller still.

All of those factors are why PATFO should pull the trigger if Trae Young becomes available.

I'd get the patience argument in most circumstances but I don't trust Brian Wright's drafting ability - based on a five-year body of work - enough to turn down 26-year-old Trae Young to continue the mystery box approach in perpetuity. If Presti were still in the building maybe I'd be more inclined to stick with The Process approach.

Maybe others have more faith in BW than me but play the 'let our GM (who may or may not be out of his depth) keep making lottery picks and hopefully it'll work out' game for long enough and, uh oh, you're suddenly the Charlotte Hornets with LaMelo Ball if it goes awry.

[TD 21]

Johnson, Graham, Craptors 1st, Hawks '25 and '27 1sts and either the Hawks '26 swap (won't have much value in this scenario) or the Hornets 1st for Young and Griffin?

If in position to select Risacher, do so. If not, maybe Salaun (3 and D archetype would be more valuable than connector/point forward one), re-sign Osman for 2 years at similar money plus inflation and don't re-sign Mamukelashvili . . .

Starters: Sochan, Risacher/Osman, Wembanyama, Vassell, Young

Bench: Jones, Collins, Osman/Salaun, Griffin, Champagnie

Deep bench/G-League: Bassey, Branham, Wesley, Barlow, Cissoko

If the natural 2nd is retained, not stashed and won't accept a two-way, either Bassey or Cissoko would likely be waived.

[lefty]

Is the 2025 draft class potentially good?

But as BW said if we can get him let's do it

[Ariel]

If in position to select Risacher, do so. If not, maybe Salaun (3 and D archetype would be more valuable than connector/point forward one)
Not really sure if I buy into Salaun, a really young and big forward who can shoot and (supposedly) defend seems like a good idea on paper, but every clip I watch shows a catch and shoot guy who doesn't look super fluid, and his shooting numbers are good but not phenomenal either. He should definitely be on the Spurs radar, as young as he is a couple of months can totally change the trajectory of a prospect at this stage (see Coulibaly, Bilal) but at this point I'm not suuuuper impressed. Someone to monitor closely, though.

If the natural 2nd is retained, not stashed and won't accept a two-way, either Bassey or Cissoko would likely be waived.
I think it's clear Bassey is the odd man out, there's just not much value in having an injured 3rd string center the like of whom can probably be had in the late 2nd round. Cissoko I find more intriguing, though we can't keep piling up absolute non shooters like him and Wesley. I'd keep him another year, and if he shows no progress in terms of shooting, then move on. For the Spurs' own 2nd rounder maybe Kolek could be had, with the Lakers' pick perhaps an Adem Bona, perhaps a Nuñez (Spanish PG) draft & stash. Anyways, I support taking more shots, but the Spurs have to speed up the projects' life cycle... otherwise the opportunity cost outweighs the pick's value.

[rjv]

Is the 2025 draft class potentially good?

But as BW said if we can get him let's do it


the top two picks (boozer and flagg) will be highly coveted. but there are some other potential standouts in the 25 draft as well.

[poopbox]

Chances of a better player at as young an age (at a position of need) becoming available for trade in the coming years to pair with Wemby is pretty miniscule.

The chance of that player having San Antonio as their first choice (as has been mooted by Stein) is even smaller.

The chance of the Spurs having the best leverage of any team in a future trade race by virtue of owning the picks of the team they'd be dealing with is smaller still.

All of those factors are why PATFO should pull the trigger if Trae Young becomes available.

I'd get the patience argument in most circumstances but I don't trust Brian Wright's drafting ability - based on a five-year body of work - enough to turn down 26-year-old Trae Young to continue the mystery box approach in perpetuity. If Presti were still in the building maybe I'd be more inclined to stick with The Process approach.

Maybe others have more faith in BW than me but play the 'let our GM (who may or may not be out of his depth) keep making lottery picks and hopefully it'll work out' game for long enough and, uh oh, you're suddenly the Charlotte Hornets with LaMelo Ball if it goes awry.

I am starting to lean this way as well. The Spurs could get a star level player by doing almost nothing other than giving Atlanta one of its picks back. Seems almost dumb not to take it even if Trae has some baggage. What star player doesn't.

[Ariel]

the top two picks (boozer and flagg) will be highly coveted. but there are some other potential standouts in the 25 draft as well.
I thought Cam Boozer was supposed to be in the 2026 draft class, next year it's Flagg and others

[TD 21]

I'm not necessarily sold on Salaun, but I would factor fit in more so in this scenario.

I'd probably do the trade. We all know Young's flaws, but no team is perfect and I see this as a case where they should take advantage of things seemingly lining up for them.

Wembanyama is too good to wait around hoping to luck into a better sidekick in the supposed loaded at the top '25 and '26 drafts or on the trade market.

Not only are the odds slim of getting those players, but then there's the question of whether they'd be a better fit than Young. Also, in the case of the future picks, how long, if at all until they live up to their potential.

The Spurs would still have extra picks and if all else fails, Young will always have resale value to recoup most of what's sent out.

[JPB]

I truly believe (well, Pop litterally suggested that) spurs see Devin and Keldon as long term pieces around Wemby and will stick to them as long as they can, with Devin as basically untouchable...

I've said here how little affection I have for Trae (bad locker room guy, doesn't make his teammates better) but when you see Wemby still putting a performance like last night, and considering the lack of opportunities and perspectives a team like SA could have in the near/middle term as far as getting as star PG, I'm slowly warming up to the idea.

Wemby's greatness could hopefully make Trae realize the opportutniy he has to belong to a great adventure and adapt his game and attitude to accept (would he have the choice?), this is Wemby's team and he has to make "sacrifices" so they both could benefit from that.. That's where I actually would Trust Pop for the credit he has among players and his ability to deal with "high ego players" to make them buy into spurs philosophy and project... Ill' admit seeing Trae say he feels for Wemby got me intrigued :D...

I just believe this team would need another respected vet with strong personality to frame all that and act as a buffer between the two and just show this roster how you win games in the NBA. Add Trae, plus some defensice specialist vet to push and kick these kds asses in practice and locker room, and that team could be fun to watch if they gel, eventually attracting more quality vets with time (another pro to bring Trae in).

Imagining spurs simply adding new rookies next June and running the same roster next season is really depressing.

[exstatic]

I thought Cam Boozer was supposed to be in the 2026 draft class, next year it's Flagg and others

Boozer is 2026, as is Wemby’s brother.

[buttsR4rebounding]

Young has made more positive comments regarding Wemby than just about any other non-Spurs player in the league including comments that Wemby has all the tools to be the best player in the history of the league. If he actually believes that then he won't have a problem being the 2nd option. I think that will make a big difference in attitude and being a team player.

[rjv]

I thought Cam Boozer was supposed to be in the 2026 draft class, next year it's Flagg and others

yes, you're right. boozer and his twin brother will be the draft class of '26.

[scott]

1757566254288974091

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[scott]

Judging by the fact that this Jazz fan is tweeting about Trae's D... my guess is that Jazz fans are also debating whether or not Young should be an acquisition target

[rankingtear]

1757092926293790888

I think Quinn would actually prefer this that is why he pushed for keeping DJ at the deadline. With DJ salary and JJ rookie deal they could be a build a depth team like NY and he can finally implement his system that can attract other players.

[JeffDuncan]

The Spurs should get Trae Young if they can.

1. Trae would be ready to play immediately, no delay of 2 or 3 years to develop a rookie (who might end up not working out, btw.)

2. If Trae, himself, didn’t work out after 2 seasons he would then be on an expiring contract (albeit a high dollar one.) Trae should be tradable unless the Spurs find some marvelously ingenious way to ruin his value, which I would hope not.

3. It’s possible a draft pick could provide a better player than Trae, but the probability is not high. If the Spurs do get that lucky, Trae’s contract is not forever, as mentioned, and Trae could play as the future superstar develops.

4. Most important, Wemby would gain “star” help to develop his own game, in this important early stage of his career.

So if a sane way can be found to do it, then do it. As far as what it would take, that’s a matter of negotiation. It depends on the Hawks’ plans, which are unknown on this side of the table.

[spurraider21]

hawks fans on the internets have been saying for most of the season that trae has been busting his ass on defense more than ever this year while murray has actually shown less intensity on that end. he still has his physical limitations, but with his offense generation, all you can really ask for his effort

[spurraider21]

while some people (myself included) are holding out hope that Vassell can blossom into a legit #2 player in the mold of Middleton, landing Trae removes the need for that and he would comfortably settle into a #3 role with not only Wemby's gravity providing space, but also Trae's pressure collapsing the defense as well

Trae isn't perfect, and ST has long said its really hard to build around him, which is true when he's the #1 as he is in ATL. wouldn't be the case here.

[Kevin]

1757566254288974091

1757569411916145084

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Trae sucks at defense but is offensive power house. Nothing new here. Young and Wemby will be special on offense and ok on defense because Wemby will be generational on defense.

Don’t over think it.

[spurraider21]

if you can land Trae while keeping Vassell and still retaining at least 1 first in each draft, you have to strongly consider it

[gambit1990]

just pull the trigger.

overpaying is fine. what could the spurs have gotten if they traded the pick landed them primo ?

trae seems like someone who could be happy with the spurs.

[Kevin]

Hawks get a full refund on the DJM trade plus they have to take back one of Keldon or Zollins to keep the book relatively clean. If the Hawks are feeling frisky maybe they can swap the Raps pick and the Hawks pick this year while taking back Zollins in addition to Keldon so the books would stay pristine.

[lefty]

the top two picks (boozer and flagg) will be highly coveted. but there are some other potential standouts in the 25 draft as well.

Thanks man

[RC_Drunkford]

Young might be the best lob thrower in the NBA. Wemby would get so many alley-oops it would be crazy. That pick & roll would be unguardable and Vassell would get open 3s all the time. It's a no brainer. All the Spurs need to add is a high level 3-and-D SF to complete the starting 5. With 4 positive defenders starting they should be able to hide Young on defense.

Besides from what I'm counting we'll have our own, the ATL, CHI, CHA picks plus the Raptors pick if it won't convert this year in 2025. Giving ATL their pick back won't be a huge loss, how many players do you want to draft?

[JPB]

Judging by the fact that this Jazz fan is tweeting about Trae's D... my guess is that Jazz fans are also debating whether or not Young should be an acquisition target

No homerism but if I'm Trae and I have the choice (I''m sure he'll have a say, stars can dictate where they're going nowadays) between spending there rest of my prime years with Markkanen or Wemby....

[rankingtear]

Young might be the best lob thrower in the NBA. Wemby would get so many alley-oops it would be crazy. That pick & roll would be unguardable and Vassell would get open 3s all the time. It's a no brainer. All the Spurs need to add is a high level 3-and-D SF to complete the starting 5. With 4 positive defenders starting they should be able to hide Young on defense.

Besides from what I'm counting we'll have our own, the ATL, CHI, CHA picks plus the Raptors pick if it won't convert this year in 2025. Giving ATL their pick back won't be a huge loss, how many players do you want to draft?

What your actually saying is Wemby would get 1 lob per 10 screens and Devin would stand in the corner and shoot a wide open three once every 10 possesions.

[TD 21]

Beck: "One exec said Atlanta discussed a potential Young trade with San Antonio before last week's deadline."

Bored by the NBA Trade Deadline? Let Speculation Season Begin. - The Ringer (https://www.theringer.com/2024/2/14/24072038/nba-trade-rumors-offseason-lebron-james-trae-young)

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Young averages 10 assists and his offensive talent would keep defenses honest. When you look at how much better the Spurs got with Jones inserted in the lineup, imagine that X10 with someone like Young.

The opt out is the only thing I’d be concerned about. Otherwise if you can make that deal you do in a minute. Who would the Spurs get that’s better? A 3-5 year project PG with no guarantee of a payoff?

Feels like a good fit to me. Wemby and Devin would benefit immensely. Then the Spurs just focus on 3 and D guys and the rebuild is complete.

[Manu20]

If Atlanta decides to trade Young I don't see how he gets trade it other than to the Spurs as I don't think they will get equal talent from any other team.

I would not be completely sold on Young but seeing how far along Wemby is on development I say the Spurs have to make a serious push for Young this summer.

[BacktoBasics]

while some people (myself included) are holding out hope that Vassell can blossom into a legit #2 player in the mold of Middleton, landing Trae removes the need for that and he would comfortably settle into a #3 role with not only Wemby's gravity providing space, but also Trae's pressure collapsing the defense as well

Trae isn't perfect, and ST has long said its really hard to build around him, which is true when he's the #1 as he is in ATL. wouldn't be the case here.

I somewhat agree with this but if Atlanta is keeping Dejonte it would make sense to ask for Devin and picks for Young. Devin is a good fit next to Dejonte.

[spurraider21]

I somewhat agree with this but if Atlanta is keeping Dejonte it would make sense to ask for Devin and picks for Young. Devin is a good fit next to Dejonte.
sure, but that makes it less worthwhile for the spurs as well. the spurs can try to patiently build around wemby, who just turned 20. if they are going to make an aggressive move for guard in his prime, then giving their next best player up in exchange doesnt really compute. you'd send keldon/collins and draft picks. return both ATL picks, send them the TOR/CHA picks or something like that

[scott]

Interesting development that apparently the Spurs and Hawks have already discussed it.

I would not want to give up Devin, but I generally agree with BacktoBasics that it would be logical that the Hawks would ask for him in return, since the Hawks wouldn't be tearing it down, rather just changing directions around DJM.

[exstatic]

Young averages 10 assists and his offensive talent would keep defenses honest. When you look at how much better the Spurs got with Jones inserted in the lineup, imagine that X10 with someone like Young.

The opt out is the only thing I’d be concerned about. Otherwise if you can make that deal you do in a minute. Who would the Spurs get that’s better? A 3-5 year project PG with no guarantee of a payoff?

Feels like a good fit to me. Wemby and Devin would benefit immensely. Then the Spurs just focus on 3 and D guys and the rebuild is complete.

Spurs traded DJ with two years left when they felt they couldn’t extend him. Will they really go all in on a two year rental of Trae?

A figure that was bandied about for a SuperMax for Wemby was $60M, starting. Can you really pay both of them, and put an 8 deep championship team on the floor? If Tre Jones was a vast improvement, do you really need 10x that? Wouldn’t 3-4x that do well enough?

[JPB]

Beck: "One exec said Atlanta discussed a potential Young trade with San Antonio before last week's deadline."

Bored by the NBA Trade Deadline? Let Speculation Season Begin. - The Ringer (https://www.theringer.com/2024/2/14/24072038/nba-trade-rumors-offseason-lebron-james-trae-young)

In the back of my mind, I couldn't help imagining (hoping?) that L'Equipe ITV was all CIA Pop trying to smoke screen the hell out of everyone :lol

If that's true, old man still has it tbh :lol

[JPB]

I would also expect the Hawks to try and include Devin in the deal, at least this deadline to put some pressure on the spurs... They're not in a hurry, ATL is not ringing this year and offers will still be on the table for Trae this summer... They know spurs wouldn't certainly give up on Vassel, hard balling SA to milk them as much as you can is fair enough. If not for Devin they may grab another couple more picks out of it... "We really want Vassel! No? OK, add another two FRPs then."

[exstatic]

I would also expect the Hawks to try and include Devin in the deal, at least this deadline to put some pressure on the spurs... They're not in a hurry, ATL is not ringing this year and offers will still be on the table for Trae this summer... Hard balling the spurs to milk them as much as you can is fair enough, if not for Devin they may grab another couple more picks out of it... "We really want Vassel! No? OK, add another two FRPs then."

The assumption baked into most of the pro Young faction is that the Spurs are burning to add Trae Young. Not sure that’s true. We’ll have to see. I will say that if it doesn’t happen during the draft or free agent period this summer, it likely won’t happen at all. Two years isn’t a very long window to begin with. Anything less will likely be a deal killer.

[Kevin]

Spurs traded DJ with two years left when they felt they couldn’t extend him. Will they really go all in on a two year rental of Trae?

A figure that was bandied about for a SuperMax for Wemby was $60M, starting. Can you really pay both of them, and put an 8 deep championship team on the floor? If Tre Jones was a vast improvement, do you really need 10x that? Wouldn’t 3-4x that do well enough?

If the Spurs cant afford to pay a second star then Wemby should bolt ASAP.

Of course they'll pay for a second star.

[exstatic]

If the Spurs cant afford to pay a second star then Wemby should bolt ASAP.

Of course they'll pay for a second star.

Not every star is on a SuperMax. It does make a difference, like an MLE contract that you either can or cannot sign a rotation player to.

[Kevin]

Not every star is on a SuperMax. It does make a difference, like an MLE contract that you either can or cannot sign a rotation player to.

Four quarters don't equal a dollar in the NBA. You would rather have one Trea Young for 49M than Dev/Keldon and Zollins for 64M

[exstatic]

Four quarters don't equal a dollar in the NBA. You would rather have one Trea Young for 49M than Dev/Keldon and Zollins for 64M

The problem is, that’s what he makes NOW, not what he will make after his inevitable opt out. I don’t think twin $60M/yr contracts will work for a small market team.

[gambit1990]

get trae, a solid 3&D and this team is making the play-in next year :toast

[Fireball]

Pop will never accept a player (with this price tag) who plays no defense at all. He would be great offensively with Wemby, but Trae Young will never be over himself. Eight pages ... Jesus!

[exstatic]

Pop will never accept a player who plays no defense at all. He would be great offensively with Wemby, but Trae Young will never be over himself. Eight pages ... Jesus!

There’s also what PATFO calls keeping your powder dry. Not sure exactly what they mean, but I’m pretty sure it doesn’t involve emptying the pick vault for a two year rental.

[gambit1990]

spurs are too classy to try to lure pascal away from the pacers... but trae / siakam / wemby would be awesome.

[mo7888]

There’s also what PATFO calls keeping your powder dry. Not sure exactly what they mean, but I’m pretty sure it doesn’t involve emptying the pick vault for a two year rental.

I think they've got their eye on bigger fish and it may be the following summer. I mean the package we're throwing around for Trae isn't appreciably different that what a package would look like for a Luka or Giannis.

[spurraider21]

I think they've got their eye on bigger fish and it may be the following summer. I mean the package we're throwing around for Trae isn't appreciably different that what a package would look like for a Luka or Giannis.
oh yeah it would

to land luka, you'd need to send not only our excess picks, but some natural picks as well. and probably vassell too :lol

the mount rushmore of current NBA players is Jokic, Giannis, Luka, Embiid* and Luka is the youngest of that group by about 4 years

[mo7888]

oh yeah it would

to land luka, you'd need to send not only our excess picks, but some natural picks as well. and probably vassell too :lol

the mount rushmore of current NBA players is Jokic, Giannis, Luka, Embiid* and Luka is the youngest of that group by about 4 years

There's only so much you can send out with the rules that govern trades. You add to that the fact that nobody is trading anyone on Mt Rushmore unless that particular player demands a trade, thereby lowering their value. What did KD bring? Two young players, filler, 4 picks that won't be nearly as high as what we're talking about, and a swap.

That much better bang for the buck than blowing our wad for Trae.

[Kevin]

There's only so much you can send out with the rules that govern trades. You add to that the fact that nobody is trading anyone on Mt Rushmore unless that particular player demands a trade, thereby lowering their value. What did KD bring? Two young players, filler, 4 picks that won't be nearly as high as what we're talking about, and a swap.

That much better bang for the buck than blowing our wad for Trae.

KD is much older than Trea and the Suns were desperate for a deal.

As its already been discussed the Hawks will only deal Young to the Spurs because we own their picks. If they don't deal him to the Spurs the Hawks picks will hover in the 8-10 range. Perfect spot for Wright to draft another Vessel, Sochan or Primmo. People are over valuing those picks badly.

[spurraider21]

There's only so much you can send out with the rules that govern trades. You add to that the fact that nobody is trading anyone on Mt Rushmore unless that particular player demands a trade, thereby lowering their value. What did KD bring? Two young players, filler, 4 picks that won't be nearly as high as what we're talking about, and a swap.

That much better bang for the buck than blowing our wad for Trae.
mikal bridges alone is worth a couple firsts rn. they got that + four firsts (the most a team can possibly trade unless they already owned excess picks) for a disgruntled 34 year old

[mo7888]

KD is much older than Trea and the Suns were desperate for a deal.

As its already been discussed the Hawks will only deal Young to the Spurs because we own their picks. If they don't deal him to the Spurs the Hawks picks will hover in the 8-10 range. Perfect spot for Wright to draft another Vessel, Sochan or Primmo. People are over valuing those picks badly.

KD is still better than Trae and will be for the next two years. Nobody considered Trae on KD's level when that trade went down. I also believe the opposite is true in that people are way over valuing Trae as opposed to those picks. Nobody here ever looks at what other teams are going to offer Atl for Trae and nobody is going to offer a package like what we throw around here.

[mo7888]

mikal bridges alone is worth a couple firsts rn. they got that + four firsts (the most a team can possibly trade unless they already owned excess picks) for a disgruntled 34 year old

And by definition, Trae will be disgruntled if they trade him....and not as impactful a player as KD...

[Chinook]

I didn't see anyone mention it, but Young is eligible for an extension this off-season.

[CorrectCrusader]

There's zero chance Atlanta deals Trae while we have their picks.

[LeBowen]

What do you guys think is the cut-off age if we're talking trades for legit players?
I'd like to see a couple of actually solid veterans in the rotation next season, but I wouldn't use multiple firsts for players that aren't close to Wemby's timeline.

Trae turns 26 later this year and I'd say that an acceptable age gap.
But for example Bridges is already in questionable age range, will turn 28 this year.

[spurraider21]

And by definition, Trae will be disgruntled if they trade him....and not as impactful a player as KD...
theres no indication that he's asking out now or that he's disgruntled now. supposedly they had some exploratory talks w/ the spurs ahead of the deadline. they might decide its in the team's interest to reset, and not a trade due to young asking out

[Chinook]

The Spurs shouldn't make a major trade for anyone under 28. Yes, under, not over. scott got me thinking about this a while back, but it's foolish to try to get Wemby a young running mate, especially one on a max contract. As exstatic has been hinting at, Young is just going to get more expensive as time goes on. The Spurs shouldn't look at trades with the idea that those players will be on the roster five years from now. They absolutely need to have a long-term view on the implications of their deals, but that's really in terms of the rookie-scale guys or long-term non-max guys like Vassell and maybe Johnson.

I think you can make the argument that the Spurs shouldn't lock themselves into Young until/unless they believe Young is going to put them over the top. Likely a Wemby/Young duo is still a major piece away from being a real contender for a few years, and that piece would be hard to get if they're trying to make a deal now.

The team should pursue a legit vet this off-season. Not a young vet, and not a cast-off. They should get a guy who can show them how to win. I've already said all this before, so I'm not going to go into much again. But ultimately, the Spurs should probably pursue a guy who's at the peak of his earning potential and be willing to pay him the money they aren't paying Wemby right now to chaperone the team for a couple of years. Then when it's time for Wemby to be the star, they have that money free and can make win-now moves, and that old guy can hang around on a cheap deal if it still makes sense.

[SpursBills]

I would look toward how Trae matches up against the Spurs' biggest competitors on their timeline to see whether it's worth it to get him. Best young cores in the league:

Orlando: Suggs-Franz-Paolo-Isaac
OKC: Cason-SGA-JDub-Chet

Can you conceivably see a Trae-Vassell-Sochan-Wemby team getting past these two teams in the playoffs on a regular basis? If the answer is yes, then you go get him. If the answer is no, then better to try and hit with one of your many lottery picks for someone who either fits better or is a better player.

[TD 21]

Of course the Hawks will initially ask for Vassell; it's part of the game. Start off asking for the sun, moon and sky, so when you eliminate the latter, you can pretend to have compromised when in reality both sides knew beforehand roughly where the deal was at.

Even though they might not go full-on re-build initially, it'll likely be on the horizon. Oftentimes, it occurs in increments as opposed to one fell swoop.

Again, if the Spurs want Young (and there's becoming too much information to think otherwise), they'll get him because only they can offer the Hawks the most valuable resource, which is their own picks back.


I think they've got their eye on bigger fish and it may be the following summer. I mean the package we're throwing around for Trae isn't appreciably different that what a package would look like for a Luka or Giannis.

Pipedreams. Late prime Antetokounmpo isn't becoming 2nd fiddle to another big because of the ego/"legacy" hit, the Mavericks would never trade Doncic to the Spurs and MVP caliber players don't get to free agency.

This type of pie in the sky thinking will be the demise of the Wembanyama era unless they luck into a lead ball handling star in the draft first.

[Chinook]

theres no indication that he's asking out now or that he's disgruntled now. supposedly they had some exploratory talks w/ the spurs ahead of the deadline. they might decide its in the team's interest to reset, and not a trade due to young asking out

My guess is that Atlanta would want the Spurs to be part of any discussions on a Young trade, even if Trae isn't slated to go to SA. The Hawks may well want to see if they can move some of a Young package to the Spurs in exchange for some of their draft capital being returned.

[scott]

I hope we aren't keeping our powder dry for Luka or Giannis. They are fun dreams, but the possibility is far too remote to build a strategy on. I'd venture to say the odds of 1) these guys demanding a trade 2) san antonio being the preferred destination and 3) us being the most attractive trade partner are... well, far less than 14% (as a reference point).

[DesignatedT]

I get the patient line of thinking; however, it would be foolish to assume Wemby is going to have some Duncan/Manu like 20-year career. The Spurs need to expedite the building process and I think/hope they know that. Wemby having the all time high usage rate for a rookie I think speaks to that.

[scott]

The Spurs shouldn't make a major trade for anyone under 28. Yes, under, not over. scott (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=150) got me thinking about this a while back, but it's foolish to try to get Wemby a young running mate, especially one on a max contract. As exstatic (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=20) has been hinting at, Young is just going to get more expensive as time goes on. The Spurs shouldn't look at trades with the idea that those players will be on the roster five years from now. They absolutely need to have a long-term view on the implications of their deals, but that's really in terms of the rookie-scale guys or long-term non-max guys like Vassell and maybe Johnson.

I think you can make the argument that the Spurs shouldn't lock themselves into Young until/unless they believe Young is going to put them over the top. Likely a Wemby/Young duo is still a major piece away from being a real contender for a few years, and that piece would be hard to get if they're trying to make a deal now.

The team should pursue a legit vet this off-season. Not a young vet, and not a cast-off. They should get a guy who can show them how to win. I've already said all this before, so I'm not going to go into much again. But ultimately, the Spurs should probably pursue a guy who's at the peak of his earning potential and be willing to pay him the money they aren't paying Wemby right now to chaperone the team for a couple of years. Then when it's time for Wemby to be the star, they have that money free and can make win-now moves, and that old guy can hang around on a cheap deal if it still makes sense.

Good thoughts, the only caveat to this would be that you can still think of a player like Trae as a transitory piece (albeit it an expensive one) so long as you don't think he'll get appreciably worse in his time in San Antonio. Trae is young enough that you could get a 3-year stint out of him, and then recoup much, if not all, of the capital you expended to get him back in another trade down the road.

I'm not overly concerned with his opt-out ability. He may do so but his best option would still be to resign with the Spurs or get a S&T. There would not likely be any desireable teams with the cap space to sign him if he opted out. Are there any examples of max level players who have opted out and then signed elsewhere?

[spurraider21]

The Spurs shouldn't make a major trade for anyone under 28. Yes, under, not over. scott (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=150) got me thinking about this a while back, but it's foolish to try to get Wemby a young running mate, especially one on a max contract. As exstatic (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=20) has been hinting at, Young is just going to get more expensive as time goes on. The Spurs shouldn't look at trades with the idea that those players will be on the roster five years from now. They absolutely need to have a long-term view on the implications of their deals, but that's really in terms of the rookie-scale guys or long-term non-max guys like Vassell and maybe Johnson.
i can see how that makes sense. you pay a guy at the peak of his earnings now while wemby is still cheap, and by the time wemby is set for a huge raise, said player is either gone, or comes back for less than max money.


I think you can make the argument that the Spurs shouldn't lock themselves into Young until/unless they believe Young is going to put them over the top. Likely a Wemby/Young duo is still a major piece away from being a real contender for a few years, and that piece would be hard to get if they're trying to make a deal now.
i still think that this is the more compelling argument against a Trae trade. and i dont think the current spurs + trae + a top 3 pick in this year's draft, for instance, is a contending team. maybe a wemby at the peak of his powers at 26-30 years old would be good enough to win with the current versions of Trae/Vassell, but he's clearly not there just yet. think you are gambling he will be in 2-3 years if you take on Trae, as well as assuming Trae can modify his game to a degree, like Harden has done with the clippers (offensively, harden and trae are pretty similar, in that they 'are the system')


The team should pursue a legit vet this off-season. Not a young vet, and not a cast-off. They should get a guy who can show them how to win. I've already said all this before, so I'm not going to go into much again. But ultimately, the Spurs should probably pursue a guy who's at the peak of his earning potential and be willing to pay him the money they aren't paying Wemby right now to chaperone the team for a couple of years. Then when it's time for Wemby to be the star, they have that money free and can make win-now moves, and that old guy can hang around on a cheap deal if it still makes sense.
this idea sounds good, and iirc you floated a jimmy butler or paul george type guy as a hypothetical manifestation of this. i guess my question is, what players of this sort are reasonably available? derozan? :lol


My guess is that Atlanta would want the Spurs to be part of any discussions on a Young trade, even if Trae isn't slated to go to SA. The Hawks may well want to see if they can move some of a Young package to the Spurs in exchange for some of their draft capital being returned.
i guess, but if the spurs arent getting the "star" of the trade, what could they possible receive to entice them to give up those unprotected picks?

[CorrectCrusader]

I'm hoping Brian Wright isn't as stupid when it comes to Trae Young as some of the people on this thread are.

Assists Leader
One man offense
Superstar at a position of weakness on our team
Perfect secondary star for Wemby

It literally doesn't get better. Players of this caliber are almost never available. We have Atlantas picks, we have the leverage. Lets fucking use it instead of getting 2 more Jeremy Sochans in the draft

[TD 21]

I would look toward how Trae matches up against the Spurs' biggest competitors on their timeline to see whether it's worth it to get him. Best young cores in the league:

Orlando: Suggs-Franz-Paolo-Isaac
OKC: Cason-SGA-JDub-Chet

Can you conceivably see a Trae-Vassell-Sochan-Wemby team getting past these two teams in the playoffs on a regular basis? If the answer is yes, then you go get him. If the answer is no, then better to try and hit with one of your many lottery picks for someone who either fits better or is a better player.

Isaac has durability issues and between that and the other two forwards, will always have a limited role. They'll probably trade for a guard like Simons relatively soon to add to the other three.

For now, the Spurs core would have a higher ceiling and could increase further still depending on the natural pick in the '24 draft potentially knocking Sochan down a peg.

I'd give the Thunder core the edge because they have no defensive liabilities, but I wouldn't say they'd be unbeatable either.

[Chinook]

Good thoughts, the only caveat to this would be that you can still think of a player like Trae as a transitory piece (albeit it an expensive one) so long as you don't think he'll get appreciably worse in his time in San Antonio. Trae is young enough that you could get a 3-year stint out of him, and then recoup much, if not all, of the capital you expended to get him back in another trade down the road.

I'm not overly concerned with his opt-out ability. He may do so but his best option would still be to resign with the Spurs or get a S&T. There would not likely be any desireable teams with the cap space to sign him if he opted out. Are there any examples of max level players who have opted out and then signed elsewhere?

I'm not worried about Young opting out at all given his extension eligibility this off-season. Teams would be able to get a commitment from Young as part of a trade. Young being a transitional piece would depend on compensation, and if the explicit goal isn't to win a title with him, then you can sort of 80/20 him and look for a cheaper alternative. The point in paying a premium is to get a marginal boost, and a team in transition doesn't require that marginal boost to continue on their journey. I also think a Young closer to 30 and who would theoretically not have seen a ton of post-season success despite playing years with one of the better NBA players (projecting Wemby in a few seasons) may not have the same shine on him as he does now when folks are thinking of him as a long-term fixture.

I'm not saying I'd hate a Young trade. I'm just saying it would have to be part of a much more disruptive off-season for it to really make sense to me, and the Spurs likely wouldn't be left with much in the way of future flexibility in that scenario.

[mo7888]

theres no indication that he's asking out now or that he's disgruntled now. supposedly they had some exploratory talks w/ the spurs ahead of the deadline. they might decide its in the team's interest to reset, and not a trade due to young asking out

Guys on max contracts don't get traded unless theres an issue of some type..

[exstatic]

Good thoughts, the only caveat to this would be that you can still think of a player like Trae as a transitory piece (albeit it an expensive one) so long as you don't think he'll get appreciably worse in his time in San Antonio. Trae is young enough that you could get a 3-year stint out of him, and then recoup much, if not all, of the capital you expended to get him back in another trade down the road.

I'm not overly concerned with his opt-out ability. He may do so but his best option would still be to resign with the Spurs or get a S&T. There would not likely be any desireable teams with the cap space to sign him if he opted out. Are there any examples of max level players who have opted out and then signed elsewhere?

Kawhi Leonard: TOR -> LAC. Multiple DPOY, AS, ALL NBA

[mo7888]

Of course the Hawks will initially ask for Vassell; it's part of the game. Start off asking for the sun, moon and sky, so when you eliminate the latter, you can pretend to have compromised when in reality both sides knew beforehand roughly where the deal was at.

Even though they might not go full-on re-build initially, it'll likely be on the horizon. Oftentimes, it occurs in increments as opposed to one fell swoop.

Again, if the Spurs want Young (and there's becoming too much information to think otherwise), they'll get him because only they can offer the Hawks the most valuable resource, which is their own picks back.



Pipedreams. Late prime Antetokounmpo isn't becoming 2nd fiddle to another big because of the ego/"legacy" hit, the Mavericks would never trade Doncic to the Spurs and MVP caliber players don't get to free agency.

This type of pie in the sky thinking will be the demise of the Wembanyama era unless they luck into a lead ball handling star in the draft first.

I didn't say we were after Luka or Giannis. I said the package for them wouldn't be appreciably different than a package for Trae. I only said, I think we have our eye on bigger fish..... i have no idea who that is..

[Seventyniner]

I would look toward how Trae matches up against the Spurs' biggest competitors on their timeline to see whether it's worth it to get him. Best young cores in the league:

Orlando: Suggs-Franz-Paolo-Isaac
OKC: Cason-SGA-JDub-Chet

Can you conceivably see a Trae-Vassell-Sochan-Wemby team getting past these two teams in the playoffs on a regular basis? If the answer is yes, then you go get him. If the answer is no, then better to try and hit with one of your many lottery picks for someone who either fits better or is a better player.

I agree with your point in principle but I wouldn't try to compare with any team in the East. The only time the Spurs could meet them in the playoffs is in the Finals, which is a high quality problem to have.

I don't think Trae/Vassell/Sochan/Wemby would beat the Thunder in a playoff series next year. Even the two years after that are a stretch; their cap sheet is very clean until the summer of 2026 when the rookie extensions for Chet and Jalen Williams would kick in and thus they wouldn't be forced to lose a major piece before then.

[r0drig0lac]

this idea sounds good, and iirc you floated a jimmy butler or paul george type guy as a hypothetical manifestation of this. i guess my question is, what players of this sort are reasonably available? derozan? :lol



it's probably at the top of the spurs list of "floor raisers" available.

[scott]

Isaac has durability issues and between that and the other two forwards, will always have a limited role. They'll probably trade for a guard like Simons relatively soon to add to the other three.

For now, the Spurs core would have a higher ceiling and could increase further still depending on the natural pick in the '24 draft potentially knocking Sochan down a peg.

I'd give the Thunder core the edge because they have no defensive liabilities, but I wouldn't say they'd be unbeatable either.

Yeah, I think there needs to be an understanding that the Spurs best version of the future is one where Vassell is the 3rd/4th option on the team and Sochan is the "worst" starter and/or key bench player. If we are strictly relying upon the existing roster growing into a championship caliber collect of players next to Wemby and (potentially) Trae, then we are likely going to fall short.

[exstatic]

I agree with your point in principle but I wouldn't try to compare with any team in the East. The only time the Spurs could meet them in the playoffs is in the Finals, which is a high quality problem to have.

I don't think Trae/Vassell/Sochan/Wemby would beat the Thunder in a playoff series next year. Even the two years after that are a stretch; their cap sheet is very clean until the summer of 2026 when the rookie extensions for Chet and Jalen Williams would kick in and thus they wouldn't be forced to lose a major piece before then.

I’d love to be able to pick off someone like Cason Wallace, OK actually Cason Wallace from OKC when their cap sheet tightens up.

[SpursBills]

I’d love to be able to pick off someone like Cason Wallace, OK actually Cason Wallace from OKC when their cap sheet tightens up.

Spurs may have that opportunity as early as this summer if Presti has insider info and a strong belief in Cody williams. He'd offer Cason + Rockets 2024 for Spurs 2024. Would you take that?

[mo7888]

Spurs may have that opportunity as early as this summer if Presti has insider info and a strong belief in Cody williams. He'd offer Cason + Rockets 2024 for Spurs 2024. Would you take that?

That would be very tempting....very...

[TD 21]

I didn't say we were after Luka or Giannis. I said the package for them wouldn't be appreciably different than a package for Trae. I only said, I think we have our eye on bigger fish..... i have no idea who that is..

I didn't mean to sound like I was shooting the messenger.

I think and hope that they recognize that doing better is probably highly unlikely and that they should take advantage of this opportunity where things are seemingly aligned for them.

Again, he can always be rerouted down the line for similar value if it doesn't work out.

[mo7888]

I didn't mean to sound like I was shooting the messenger.

I think and hope that they recognize that doing better is probably highly unlikely and that they should take advantage of this opportunity where things are seemingly aligned for them.

Again, he can always be rerouted down the line for similar value if it doesn't work out.

It's all good...

[spurraider21]

Guys on max contracts don't get traded unless theres an issue of some type..
the issue could be ATL underperforming while being short on cap space + not controlling their own picks, not necessarily Trae wanting out

[spurraider21]

Trae also has a 15% trade kicker...

[Chinook]

i still think that this is the more compelling argument against a Trae trade. and i dont think the current spurs + trae + a top 3 pick in this year's draft, for instance, is a contending team. maybe a wemby at the peak of his powers at 26-30 years old would be good enough to win with the current versions of Trae/Vassell, but he's clearly not there just yet. think you are gambling he will be in 2-3 years if you take on Trae, as well as assuming Trae can modify his game to a degree, like Harden has done with the clippers (offensively, harden and trae are pretty similar, in that they 'are the system')

I think the lack of MVPs probably make Young more persuadable than Harden. That's good. I just think it might make more sense to get a Young-level player once Wemby seems closer to ready for it rather than paying now in the hope that player is still on the roster when Wemby's time comes. Even if it's costs more, the Spurs will have had a chance to actually see what the 2024 and potentially 2025 picks become before jumping into it.


this idea sounds good, and iirc you floated a jimmy butler or paul george type guy as a hypothetical manifestation of this. i guess my question is, what players of this sort are reasonably available? derozan? :lol

To me, Butler is in between old, reliable contending engines like James and Curry and stars who won't create championship expectations like DeRozan and Thompson. I fully believe that Jimmy could be an engine if supported by a real second star like Wemby should be next year or the year after. He reminds me a lot of Steve Smith (Sr) when he signed with Ravens and gave their young WR core a bunch of swagger. Just pure "that dude" energy even though you never go into it thinking he's the favorite. George is probably in between too but closer to the Thompson/DeRozan end. He showed a lot a decade ago with the Pacers, but he doesn't have Jimmy's cache nor the rings of James and Curry.

Besides Jimmy, I don't know if a legit fit is out there. DeRozan back in 2018 had the talent to help Wemby and Vassell, but he's slowed down and is basically a post-up guy now who lacks the size of older Rudy Gay. Klay's resume looks good, and he's probably obtainable, but he's definitely on the downside and never really exuded the same aura of excellence as Steph does. If the Spurs had cap space (yes, objective (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=4663), it's okay to bring up Collins' contract if you want), signing Thompson outright for a two-year deal might be the best they could do. But then you have to deal with the fact that Thompson basically plays the exact same position as Vassell.

As weird as it may sound, maybe Jerami Grant? Dude's never been a full-star, but he has been in a lot of situations and has experience cutting his teeth to go from second-round afterthought to key role-player, to lesser star. He's due big money and probably isn't worth it to anyone. But he does round out the roster pretty well (can slide in as a 2B next to Devin and bolster the forward rotation with Sochan) and is cheaper than a lot of other stars. He also doesn't turn 30 until next month, so there's meat left on that bone. It would be a gamble, but depending on who would go out as part of the trade, it might not be that risky. He probably gives off Hawks/Nuggets-Millsap vibes more than anyone else in the league right now.


i guess, but if the spurs arent getting the "star" of the trade, what could they possible receive to entice them to give up those unprotected picks?

I mean there's certainly a delta there between what one of those picks are worth and what Young is worth. I don't know who'd be in on Trae, but the value might be there, especially the Raptors keep their pick and Hawks 24 is decent.

[exstatic]

Spurs may have that opportunity as early as this summer if Presti has insider info and a strong belief in Cody williams. He'd offer Cason + Rockets 2024 for Spurs 2024. Would you take that?

Depends where our pick is. Rockets pick is likely to be 10 or later. If disaster strikes, and our natural pick is like 6 or 7, I’d discuss it. No way if we’re top 3, though. The cap will bite them the ass at least two years before it bites us.

[JPB]

My guess is that Atlanta would want the Spurs to be part of any discussions on a Young trade, even if Trae isn't slated to go to SA. The Hawks may well want to see if they can move some of a Young package to the Spurs in exchange for some of their draft capital being returned.

Assuming they want him, I'm not sure spurs would help ATL trade him to another team.

[exstatic]

Assuming they want him, I'm not sure spurs would help ATL trade him to another team.

Yeah, i don’t see that ever happening, unless it’s Dallas and Luka headed this way.

[Chinook]

Assuming they want him, I'm not sure spurs would help ATL trade him to another team.

1) I wouldn't assume the Spurs want him. My post isn't saying they don't, but it's not required that they are

2) Even if the Spurs want Young, they might not be able to get him by torpedoing another trade. In the scenario where they don't get Young anyway, I would hope SA still tries to get good value for the assets they have.

3) A Young deal might be part of a larger deal that helps the Spurs get a major piece, similar to how the Lillard trade got Boston Holliday.

[spurraider21]

Besides Jimmy, I don't know if a legit fit is out there. DeRozan back in 2018 had the talent to help Wemby and Vassell, but he's slowed down and is basically a post-up guy now who lacks the size of older Rudy Gay. Klay's resume looks good, and he's probably obtainable, but he's definitely on the downside and never really exuded the same aura of excellence as Steph does. If the Spurs had cap space (yes, objective (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=4663), it's okay to bring up Collins' contract if you want), signing Thompson outright for a two-year deal might be the best they could do. But then you have to deal with the fact that Thompson basically plays the exact same position as Vassell.

As weird as it may sound, maybe Jerami Grant? Dude's never been a full-star, but he has been in a lot of situations and has experience cutting his teeth to go from second-round afterthought to key role-player, to lesser star. He's due big money and probably isn't worth it to anyone. But he does round out the roster pretty well (can slide in as a 2B next to Devin and bolster the forward rotation with Sochan) and is cheaper than a lot of other stars. He also doesn't turn 30 until next month, so there's meat left on that bone. It would be a gamble, but depending on who would go out as part of the trade, it might not be that risky. He probably gives off Hawks/Nuggets-Millsap vibes more than anyone else in the league right now.
man, its gotta be a hard no on Klay. preliminarily, i dont think he is in the same class of player as Butler/George, or even 2018 Derozan. dont get me wrong, he's a monster shooter and movement player who used to be a solid defender, but he totally fed off the GSW machine and was always kind of just the thorn who would bury shots when you absolutely had to close out on curry, collapse onto a driving dray, or send a double to durant. he had those games where he took over and scored 60+, but even those were largely catch and shoot/movement plays.

that, and among the names mentioned, he's by FAR the least effective right now. he looks pretty cooked. and i cant blame him. he just turned 34 and has had some catastrophic injuries.

grant is a nice idea

[scott]

I think the lack of MVPs probably make Young more persuadable than Harden. That's good. I just think it might make more sense to get a Young-level player once Wemby seems closer to ready for it rather than paying now in the hope that player is still on the roster when Wemby's time comes. Even if it's costs more, the Spurs will have had a chance to actually see what the 2024 and potentially 2025 picks become before jumping into it.




I think this is a really interesting perspective but adds an element of human error in trying to time Wemby's "arrival" just right. I think there is a fair argument to be made that given his trajectory this year, that his arrival as a legit superstar in this league may come well before (perhaps by 5-7 years) him achieving his peak form. But even a Wemby still on the ascent (not yet at his peak) is still good enough to contend if surrounded by the right pieces. This could potentially happen as early as next year or the following. Wemby is so unique that we can't confuse the fact that he is still improving with the notion that he is not quite ready. Wemby's final form may be something the likes of which we have never seen, and while that will be quite special to behold, we don't have to wait for that... but we do need to leave space for that to develop.

[Kevin]

I'm hoping Brian Wright isn't as stupid when it comes to Trae Young as some of the people on this thread are.

Assists Leader
One man offense
Superstar at a position of weakness on our team
Perfect secondary star for Wemby

It literally doesn't get better. Players of this caliber are almost never available. We have Atlantas picks, we have the leverage. Lets fucking use it instead of getting 2 more Jeremy Sochans in the draft

This is exactly how I feel. People are overvaluing those picks by a country mile.

[JPB]

I'm not worried about Young opting out at all given his extension eligibility this off-season. Teams would be able to get a commitment from Young as part of a trade. Young being a transitional piece would depend on compensation, and if the explicit goal isn't to win a title with him, then you can sort of 80/20 him and look for a cheaper alternative. The point in paying a premium is to get a marginal boost, and a team in transition doesn't require that marginal boost to continue on their journey. I also think a Young closer to 30 and who would theoretically not have seen a ton of post-season success despite playing years with one of the better NBA players (projecting Wemby in a few seasons) may not have the same shine on him as he does now when folks are thinking of him as a long-term fixture.

I'm not saying I'd hate a Young trade. I'm just saying it would have to be part of a much more disruptive off-season for it to really make sense to me, and the Spurs likely wouldn't be left with much in the way of future flexibility in that scenario.

yeah, and that's not a small issue. If you sign Trae, you basically have to start building the contending roster right away... Riding this roster + Wemby&Trae for a couple years doesn't really make sense.

Meaning you have to get rid of all the "garbage" this summer or let's say until the next deadline (all the Champagnies, Barlowes, Cedis of the world) and bring on quality vet role players. Even guys like Bassey or Branham may have to go...

But why not, after all? Victor is ready and you have the assets... A big 3 of Vic-Trae-Devin + a couple vets specialists + whoever of Sochan, Keldon, Tre, Branham, Wesley is still there + a Risacher or Sarr and it becomes interesting.

[exstatic]

This is exactly how I feel. People are overvaluing those picks by a country mile.

This is the best version of Atlanta with Trae. The are in the 9th slot now, but have 20% odds of top4. I’ll roll those dice 3 times. If they finish worse than 9th, which I consider likely considering their 4 year slide, those top 4 odds only go up.

[Chinook]

I think this is a really interesting perspective but adds an element of human error in trying to time Wemby's "arrival" just right. I think there is a fair argument to be made that given his trajectory this year, that his arrival as a legit superstar in this league may come well before (perhaps by 5-7 years) him achieving his peak form. But even a Wemby still on the ascent (not yet at his peak) is still good enough to contend if surrounded by the right pieces. This could potentially happen as early as next year or the following. Wemby is so unique that we can't confuse the fact that he is still improving with the notion that he is not quite ready. Wemby's final form may be something the likes of which we have never seen, and while that will be quite special to behold, we don't have to wait for that... but we do need to leave space for that to develop.

If Wemby is ready to lead a title team, you have wiggle room with timing. The Spurs have the assets to overpay if they need to when the time is right. That's the advantage of their position.

Like for example let's say Wemby shows he's there at some point during next season. Either Young is still available because ATL hasn't traded him or ATL has traded him, and that 2025 Hawks pick looks juicy AF. Either way, the Spurs are in a position to act at the deadline or during that draft. That's even more true if the guys they draft in June have had a chance to show themselves to be good prospects who can either fill in for guys who are traded as part of this big move or who add value the Spurs can use to make the trade or trades happen.

As I've said, so long as they are going into this process thinking Wemby is going to be their best player when they start contending, they should prepare in order to be responsive for that time. They shouldn't make moves to accelerate their timeline past his if that results in lesser deals like the Holiday (from Philly) and McCollum trades the Pelicans tried to put around their young picks within a year or so of acquiring them.

[Chinook]

yeah, and that's not a small issue. If you sign Trae, you basically have to start building the contending roster right away... Riding this roster + Wemby&Trae for a couple years doesn't really make sense.

Meaning you have to get rid of all the "garbage" this summer or let's say until the next deadline (all the Champagnies, Barlowes, Cedis of the world) and bring on quality vet role players. Even guys like Bassey or Branham may have to go...

But why not, after all? Victor is ready and you have the assets... A big 3 of Vic-Trae-Devin + a couple vets specialists + whoever of Sochan, Keldon, Tre, Branham, Wesley is still there + a Risacher or Sarr and it becomes interesting.

Victor's not ready. He's not even that close. That's what Pop was trying to convey when talking about Jordan and Jokic. I don't look at that big three as a contender.

[CorrectCrusader]

Something to note is that Trae young has been a spurs fan all his life. He would not only be willing, but also would LIKE to be a spur. That's pretty important in todays NBA with player empowerment

[Kevin]

This is the best version of Atlanta with Trae. The are in the 9th slot now, but have 20% odds of top4. I’ll roll those dice 3 times. If they finish worse than 9th, which I consider likely considering their 4 year slide, those top 4 odds only go up.

Or you can cash them in for a sure star at a position of need that fits Wemby perfectly on offense. I’ll take the sure thing because even if you get a top four pick it doesn’t mean he’ll be a star. You could draft the next James Wiseman as easily as the next Paulo Banchero.

[scott]

Let's play it out for a moment and assume that in order to land Trae, we give up everything we got in the DJM trade + the TOR pick and Keldon and Collins, and then look at who might be reasonable acquisitions in the offseason. (If you don't like this package, you can make your own and run this same exercise)



I'm going to assume we pick #4-6 and take Matas Buzelis for this exercise.
I'm going to try and sign Gordon Hayward or Royce O'Neal to be my starting SF to begin the season until Matas is ready to take over that role. I'd like to take a hard look at Tobias Harris here but I'm going to assume he is going to cost too much
I still need a backup SG. Is there an upperclassman I can grab at the top of the second who could reasonably contribute? I'm going to assume Malik Monk is going to cost too much. Could Grayson Allen be a fit? Many here aren't going to like it... but I wouldn't mind bringing Lonnie back in this role. This would just be a short-term stop gap until you can upgrade in a future offseason. This would be a scenario where if I can keep the TOR pick in the Trae deal, I might look at Walter or Sheppard or Knecht as guys to fill this role.
I also need a backup PF. I'm going to assume Cedi is coming back and will be filling some PF and SF reserve minutes, but I want a little more depth. Not a lot of FA options though, so I'm just going to slot Barlow in here.
Backup C we are going to roll the dice with Bassey and Barlow and hope for the best.


Rotation:

PG: Trae / Tre / Wesley
SG: Devin / Lonnie / Branham
SF: Hayward / Matas / Cedi / Sidi
PF: Sochan / Cedi / Barlow
C: Wemby / Bassey / Barlow

Still in the warchest: All Spurs picks, CHI '25, CHA '25 (lol), BOS '28 swap, DAL '30 swap

[scott]

If Wemby is ready to lead a title team, you have wiggle room with timing. The Spurs have the assets to overpay if they need to when the time is right. That's the advantage of their position.

Like for example let's say Wemby shows he's there at some point during next season. Either Young is still available because ATL hasn't traded him or ATL has traded him, and that 2025 Hawks pick looks juicy AF. Either way, the Spurs are in a position to act at the deadline or during that draft. That's even more true if the guys they draft in June have had a chance to show themselves to be good prospects who can either fill in for guys who are traded as part of this big move or who add value the Spurs can use to make the trade or trades happen.

As I've said, so long as they are going into thinking Wemby is going to be their best player when they start contending, they to be responsive for that time. They shouldn't make accelerate their timeline past his if that results in lesser deals like the Holiday (from Philly) and McCollum trades the Pelicans tried to put around their young picks within a year or so of acquiring them.

My only point of contention here is overestimating those ATL picks. If the Hawks move Tre (or DJM for that matter), I don't it will be to tank (as other posters outlined), but rather to reshuffle the deck. Atlanta actually has some interesting pieces, so I wouldn't totally discount the idea of addition by subtraction for them.

[JeffDuncan]

If you’ll only accept the “perfect” you’ll never have the “good” - and you’re never going to get the “perfect” either. You’ll find yourself entirely out of luck.

If the Spurs can get Trae Young they need to do it.

Wemby has stats of 20/10 and he’s leading the league in blocks. He’s ready now.

[TD 21]

Who cares whether Wembanyama is ready to front a contender. Young is 25. This wouldn't have to coalesce overnight nor would it. At least with it, they'd have the capacity to grow into it eventually though.

Whenever the former is ready, there might not be a star that's both a fit and theirs for the taking.

This almost can't fail because even if the results underwhelm, they can begin to show him that they're trying to win and not just taking him for granted, presuming he'll have a long term window or that it'll be with them.

[exstatic]

Or you can cash them in for a sure star at a position of need that fits Wemby perfectly on offense. I’ll take the sure thing because even if you get a top four pick it doesn’t mean he’ll be a star. You could draft the next James Wiseman as easily as the next Paulo Banchero.

He’s a flawed star who needs the ball in his hands ALL OF THE TIME. He is awful off the ball. What that means is that when they are on the floor together, the ball will NOT be in Wemby’s hands. That’s a bad thing. Look, I get it. We’ve had awful PG play for a big chunk of the year. What you should not do is knee jerk react, and get a high volume low efficiency guy like Young. Just putting Tre Jones in there vastly improved things. You don’t need to cash in all of your chips, just get a game manager who can shoot some and defend. The archetype would be a Jrue/Conley/Brogdon type. That’s all you need. In reality in today’s NBA, unless you’re Golden State, you’re not winning with a #1 player who’s a small shooter. Big wings are where championships are won. Look to that type for your star.

[Dejounte]

My caps voodoo didn’t work when I wanted Murray. Maybe the key is to want the opposite of what I want to happen. From now until we DON’t get Trae, i’m going to be posting the opposite of everything I want. I don’t want Trae.

[Kevin]

He’s a flawed star who needs the ball in his hands ALL OF THE TIME. He is awful off the ball. What that means is that when they are on the floor together, the ball will NOT be in Wemby’s hands. That’s a bad thing. Look, I get it. We’ve had awful PG play for a big chunk of the year. What you should not do is knee jerk react, and get a high volume low efficiency guy like Young. Just putting Tre Jones in there vastly improved things. You don’t need to cash in all of your chips, just get a game manager who can shoot some and defend. The archetype would be a Jrue/Conley/Brogdon type. That’s all you need. In reality in today’s NBA, unless you’re Golden State, you’re not winning with a #1 player who’s a small shooter. Big wings are where championships are won. Look to that type for your star.

Young averages 10 assists a game for the past four seasons. He’s a great player on offense who plays a ball heavy position at PG.

By your logic Tony Parker would have been a horrible fit next to TD because Tony was ball heavy and couldn’t shoot the 3 ball to save his soul and he was undersized like Young.

[mo7888]

the issue could be ATL underperforming while being short on cap space + not controlling their own picks, not necessarily Trae wanting out

If they're underperforming with him then that's an issue in and of itself. That said, the trade Trae stuff isnt being done without Trae's camp being involved

[JeffDuncan]

Young averages 10 assists a game for the past four seasons. He’s a great player on offense who plays a ball heavy position at PG.

By your logic Tony Parker would have been a horrible fit next to TD because Tony was ball heavy and couldn’t shoot the 3 ball to save his soul and he was undersized like Young.


Yep, Trae Young leads the league in total assists. Anybody who’s worried about Wemby getting the ball just hasn’t heard the news.

[JPB]

Victor's not ready. He's not even that close. That's what Pop was trying to convey when talking about Jordan and Jokic. I don't look at that big three as a contender.

Not in year 1 obviously. Now in 2 or 3 years, things get interesting... Things have changed in the NBA, and the landscape is constantly moving. Who would have thought OKC and MInny would be atop the WC this year, while the Lakers or GS are fighting for a play in spot, wiht Dallas and PHO in the middle? A couple of good trades and you're suddnely relevant

Give it a couple of years to improve as the team gains experience in the POs and you can contend in 3 years. How long if you keep teaching fundamentals to the kids for another 2 years?

PG: Trae/Tre/Wesley or (draft pick)
SG: Devin/Keldon (if he hasn't been traded for Trae) or Branham/ or vet
SF: quality 3 & D vet/Risacher or other rookie
PF/C: Wemby/quality stretch vet/Sarr or other rookie

I guess Sochan is the odd man out, and spurs shop him in that scenario. He can't really shoot and I doesn't think he fits well with Wemby who needs another stretch, rim protecting big next to hims o he can play 4 or 5...

Wemby is already ready on defense by the way, as the best block shoter in the league and in the discussion for DPOY... Besides, in his past 13 games, Victor is shooting 39.3% on 3 on 4.7 attempts per game... And that's in a messy team with nobody really setting him right. Imagine with Trea and proven vets around, and playing 32-35 minute a game. Vic could be a 30 &10 player by next year, still as one of the best defenser in the league... Basically a top 10 player in his second year.

Edit: I corrected, I meant 39.3% on 3 ofc, at 4.7 attempts/game.

Edit 2: Sorry, guys I know my posts are full of typos recently but I'm still kind of fuzzy from surgery last month :D Feels like these MoFos gave me the elephant dose for the anesthesia.

[thiste]

this idea sounds good, and iirc you floated a jimmy butler or paul george type guy as a hypothetical manifestation of this. i guess my question is, what players of this sort are reasonably available? derozan? :lol

You can get LeBron by picking Bronny :lol

[spurraider21]

You can get LeBron by picking Bronny :lol
lebron would undoubtedly be awesome, but i dont see it happening at all :lol

[CorrectCrusader]

Lebron will be 40 next year and Trae will be 26. Lol

[thiste]

Lebron will be 40 next year and Trae will be 26. Lol

Spursraider was responding to Chinook saying we should get a legit vet to chaperone the team, not a younger star like Trae. There are no more legit vet than the legitest vetest of them all LeBron :)