Fischer: Spurs Repeatedly Mentioned By NBA Figures As Potential Home For Young

[JeffDuncan]

About the LEBRON stuff, from their website:

~~~~~
“ Which players have the best LEBRON seasons in your database?
…
For D-LEBRON, Dwight Howard (twice), Rudy Gobert (3 times), Andrew Bogut (twice), Giannis Antetokounmpo, Kevin Garnett, and Larry Sanders lead the pack.”
~~~~~

Those are centers.

Who is really worried about Trae Young’s ability as a shot blocker?

[objective]

Here's the text version.

...
Second, catch-alls estimate credit for defensive performance

Based on a box score component and an adjusted plus-minus component. Our defensive box score stats are pretty limited so it’s mostly working off of Stocks and defensive rebounds. Obviously things he isn’t compiling a lot of regardless. So when he’s on the floor, they’re going to

Draw the conclusion, that is the weakest Link based on these box score numbers. Then when it sees how poor the Hawks defense is when he is on the floor because of his lower box score component. It is going to hold him most responsible for their underperformance. Whether that’s

Fair schematically is up for some debate. However, were he part of a better defense (and I just wanna point out again did the hawks defense is terrible whether he plays or not) his catchalls would look a lot better because the on-court baseline for the adjusted plus minus stuff

Would be better. And example would be Dame, who unless he has reinvented himself as a defensive player this year at 33 or whatever, suddenly grades out as a significantly better defender, by joining a cohesive infrastructure in Milwaukee.

Finally, I’m not sure that catch-alls still have him basically dead last anyway. He’s at like the 40th percentile in EPM

In sum, Trae Young is not a good defensive player, and the he’s actually good now stuff is probably overblown. On the other hand the biggest difference between Dame’s defensive all-in-ones and Trae’s is the gap between Giannis and Saddiq Bey, not Trae and Dame




Now that is a very interesting point about Lillard vs Young stats

[FuzzyLumpkins]

About the LEBRON stuff, from their website:

~~~~~
“ Which players have the best LEBRON seasons in your database?
…
For D-LEBRON, Dwight Howard (twice), Rudy Gobert (3 times), Andrew Bogut (twice), Giannis Antetokounmpo, Kevin Garnett, and Larry Sanders lead the pack.”
~~~~~

Those are centers.

Who is really worried about Trae Young’s ability as a shot blocker?

Defensive metric in baseball are shit but they are still better than basketball. There is just too many unmeasurable techniques and mechanics and it is too hard to isolate individual performance. At least in baseball each catch and throw is in a vacuum.

[TD 21]

And if Duncan never had plantar fasciitis or nagging knee issues, he might've won 7 rings instead of 5... The fact still remains that Stockton, Nash, Iverson, and CP3 were each considered premier players of their eras and between them produced zero rings in over 60 combined attempts.

Curry's a different animal because he's the greatest shooter in NBA history. It's crazy that you're trying to argue he's somehow overrated, considering he led a team in a three year charge of 67, 73, and 67 wins, and has 4 rings. Do you honestly think CP3's "almost won a title once or twice" is a better resume than Steph's?


Results without context are diminished. Stockton, Nash and Iverson weren't good enough to be the best player on a championship team.

Golden boy is protected and mythologized because he's an easy sell to the (white America) masses due to his baby face, light skin and style of play. They fell ass backwards into beating the league into a style of play that the league (rule wise) was complicit with and strove for regular season wins in a way most elites never do.

His rings are mostly a product of, again, a combination of unprecedented opponent injury luck and begging Durant (who received all the blame for their gutless partnership) to join him because he wasn't interested in earning his hardware.

He's better than Paul, but the gap isn't nearly as wide as you're making it out to be.

[R. DeMurre]

Results without context are diminished. Stockton, Nash and Iverson weren't good enough to be the best player on a championship team.

Golden boy is protected and mythologized because he's an easy sell to the (white America) masses due to his baby face, light skin and style of play. They fell ass backwards into beating the league into a style of play that the league (rule wise) was complicit with and strove for regular season wins in a way most elites never do.

His rings are mostly a product of, again, a combination of unprecedented opponent injury luck and begging Durant (who received all the blame for their gutless partnership) to join him because he wasn't interested in earning his hardware.

He's better than Paul, but the gap isn't nearly as wide as you're making it out to be.

I never stated how wide the gap was, so that's a figment of your imagination, and quite frankly it sounds like you've got major issues with Curry's looks, being lightskinned/baby faced etc... I don't care about that one bit. I'm looking at his 13 seasons shooting over 40% from three and his career 3pt% of 42.6%, compared to CP3's career 36.9%.

[DAF86]

Results without context are diminished. Stockton, Nash and Iverson weren't good enough to be the best player on a championship team.

Golden boy is protected and mythologized because he's an easy sell to the (white America) masses due to his baby face, light skin and style of play. They fell ass backwards into beating the league into a style of play that the league (rule wise) was complicit with and strove for regular season wins in a way most elites never do.

His rings are mostly a product of, again, a combination of unprecedented opponent injury luck and begging Durant (who received all the blame for their gutless partnership) to join him because he wasn't interested in earning his hardware.

He's better than Paul, but the gap isn't nearly as wide as you're making it out to be.

Dude, I respect you and think of you as very knowledgeable poster but your irrational hatred of the Raptors' GM and Steph Curry, I will never understand, tbh. :lol

First of all, Curry's lightskin complexion and baby face has nothing to do with his popularity. It has all to do with his style of play. When he started making all those mind numbing threes it was something we have never seen before. People were in awe of that and loved every minute of it. He could have looked like Popeye Jones and people would still have loved it. Now we have become numb to that style (thanks in part to Curry), but at the time, it was special.

I don't know how old you are but if you remember the Allen Iverson days, he was the same. He was an NBA phenomenon. People (specially kids) loved his unique style of play. The problem with him is that it was short lived because, unlike Steph's, it wasn't conductive to winning. Now, AI was as hood as it got, did that sell to white people too?

Second, Curry is without question a top 10 player of all-time and one of the most dominant players ever. He was Shaq-like but with a complete opposite style of play. He was the driving force in one of the most dominant dynasties of all-time. All this talk about injuries and a guy that never won it without him being more important is utter and complete bullshit, tbh.

[Frenchfred]

I think that most people would be okay with Trae coming here, it all depends how much it’s going to cost the Spurs. For me, it is Spurs FRP25, Atlanta swap26, Atlanta 27 and potentially the Chicago one. He also renounces the trade kicker.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I think that most people would be okay with Trae coming here, it all depends how much it’s going to cost the Spurs. For me, it is Spurs FRP25, Atlanta swap26, Atlanta 27 and potentially the Chicago one. He also renounces the trade kicker.

Their 3 FRP would be more than fair. That is 3 high lottery picks for them and if they improve because they hit early so they are no longer lottery picks then so much the better for them.

I think that they are their picks and allow them to control their franchise destiny is an overlooked quality in those picks.

[Chinook]

Dude, I respect you and think of you as very knowledgeable poster but your irrational hatred of the Raptors' GM and Steph Curry, I will never understand, tbh. :lol

First of all, Curry's lightskin complexion and baby face has nothing to do with his popularity. It has all to do with his style of play. When he started making all those mind numbing threes it was something we have never seen before. People were in awe of that and loved every minute of it. He could have looked like Popeye Jones and people would still have loved it. Now we have become numb to that style (thanks in part to Curry), but at the time, it was special.

I don't know how old you are but if you remember the Allen Iverson days, he was the same. He was an NBA phenomenon. People (specially kids) loved his unique style of play. The problem with him is that it was short lived because, unlike Steph's, it wasn't conductive to winning. Now, AI was as hood as it got, did that sell to white people too?

Second, Curry is without question a top 10 player of all-time and one of the most dominant players ever. He was Shaq-like but with a complete opposite style of play. He was the driving force in one of the most dominant dynasties of all-time. All this talk about injuries and a guy that never won it without him being more important is utter and complete bullshit, tbh.

I think Teeds is pretty far off on not recognizing Curry's greatness. He wasn't just the first guy to be him. He's still far and away the best guy. Depending on how you define "great", he's a legit GOAT candidate.

But don't overlook how skin color affects marketability. That's actually a more complicated subject than random posts on a sports forum can get into. Colorism's effect on how black Americans are marketed is a hard enough think for a lot of Americans to wrap their heads around, let alone folks from other countries with have their own nuances when it comes to race and color. I'm not throwing shade at you, man. It's just a whole thing. Curry's features definitely played a role in his marketability, though his play would've still made him a superstar.

[DAF86]

I think Teeds is pretty far off on not recognizing Curry's greatness. He wasn't just the first guy to be him. He's still far and away the best guy. Depending on how you define "great", he's a legit GOAT candidate.

But don't overlook how skin color affects marketability. That's actually a more complicated subject than random posts on a sports forum can get into. Colorism's effect on how black Americans are marketed is a hard enough think for a lot of Americans to wrap their heads around, let alone folks from other countries with have their own nuances when it comes to race and color. I'm not throwing shade at you, man. It's just a whole thing. Curry's features definitely played a role in his marketability, though his play would've still made him a superstar.

Dude, MJ is like the blackest dude ever and he's arguably the most beloved sportsman ever. :lol

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Dude, MJ is like the blackest dude ever and he's arguably the most beloved sportsman ever. :lol

I was hoping for phrenology next.

[Chinook]

Dude, MJ is like the blackest dude ever and he's arguably the most beloved sportsman ever. :lol

That doesn't mean colorism isn't a real concept with academic papers and shit written about it. Curry being a light skinned guy with green eyes and brown hair helped his marketability. It's not just about that. Accents and dialects also affect marketability. Personality in general plays a role, which is why Kobe gets rated higher than Duncan. That's also how Shaq overcomes being a gigantic dark-skinned man whose voice is often hard to understand because of how deep it is and how much nonsense comes out of mouth.

The point isn't that the rules are hard and immoveable. It's that the same eye that would prefer to market a white player than a black player doesn't just have a binary view. Curry has benefitted from that, and so will Wemby. Duncan could've benefitted from it but didn't to.

[DAF86]

That doesn't mean colorism isn't a real concept with academic papers and shit written about it. Curry being a light skinned guy with green eyes and brown hair helped his marketability. It's not just about that. Accents and dialects also affect marketability. Personality in general plays a role, which is why Kobe gets rated higher than Duncan. That's also how Shaq overcomes being a gigantic dark-skinned man whose voice is often hard to understand because of how deep it is and how much nonsense comes out of mouth.

The point isn't that the rules are hard and immoveable. It's that the same eye that would prefer to market a white player than a black player doesn't just have a binary view. Curry has benefitted from that, and so will Wemby. Duncan could've benefitted from it but didn't to.

So what you are really telling me is that it really isn't about colour but a mix of a lot of things? :lol

The only reason Kobe gets rated higher than Duncan (by some) is because he played for the most popular franchise in basketball and he died young. That's it. Even then, most knowledgeable basketball journalists rank Duncan higher than Kobe. We have Splits with his iconic avatar that ilustrates how Kobe was ranked 12th by a shit ton of journalists when ESPN made its all-time list.

Look, I'm not saying "colorism" doesn't influence some people a bit, I'm saying it is far from the main reason players get popular. Heck, you said it yourself, there are examples of everything: Dark skin: MJ, image: AI, voice: Shaq. At the end of the day, the most important factor in a player's marketability it is their style of play, what they do on the court, and the team they play for.

[TD 21]

I never stated how wide the gap was, so that's a figment of your imagination, and quite frankly it sounds like you've got major issues with Curry's looks, being lightskinned/baby faced etc... I don't care about that one bit. I'm looking at his 13 seasons shooting over 40% from three and his career 3pt% of 42.6%, compared to CP3's career 36.9%.

I never said you did, hence the word "seem".

I'd be a hypocrite to have "major issues" with his looks, it's called being unbiased. Why else would his on court antics be called joy? Or his self serving statements be overlooked?

No one is debating who the better 3-point shooter was or even player, just that how you accomplish what you did absolutely matters.

It matters that James had to face 2 better teams 7 times in the Finals than Jordan ever did, it made the '07 championship the least satisfying, etc.


First of all, Curry's lightskin complexion and baby face has nothing to do with his popularity. It has all to do with his style of play.

Second, Curry is without question a top 10 player of all-time and one of the most dominant players ever. He was Shaq-like but with a complete opposite style of play. He was the driving force in one of the most dominant dynasties of all-time. All this talk about injuries and a guy that never won it without him being more important is utter and complete bullshit, tbh.

I said it was a combination, but you really shouldn't be commenting on this.

I get that as a light skinned perimeter player, he's basically your wet dream, but he has no credible argument to be top 10 all time nor they a dynasty (the cowards forfeited the opportunity by recruiting Durant).

The injuries are fact.

They played zero contenders in '15 (considering Cavaliers state) and every team they did play had multiple significant injuries.

In '17 and '18, he was part of the gutless contingent that begged Durant to join his team so that they could start on the 2 yard line while still getting injury breaks from any team that could challenge them (Scumbag, Paul, etc.)

In '22, same thing (Murray, Porter Jr., Morant) etc.



I think Teeds is pretty far off on not recognizing Curry's greatness. He wasn't just the first guy to be him. He's still far and away the best guy. Depending on how you define "great", he's a legit GOAT candidate.

By putting it into context instead of being a fanboy like so many? He's a top 15ish player of all time, with serious holes in his resume that most don't want to discuss because he's so beloved.

He's also quietly fallen off a cliff, but you're not allowed to tell the truth about him, so they claim he's tired every time he increasingly looks his age.

[DAF86]

I said it was a combination, but you really shouldn't be commenting on this.

Why?


I get that as a light skinned perimeter player, he's basically your wet dream

So now you're gonna start making assumptions about me out pretty much nothing? how very childish of you. :lol I might have been giving you too much credit respecting you as a poster that I could agree or disagree with but that will argue with substance and in good faith like an intelligent mature person, tbh.


he has no credible argument to be top 10 all time nor they a dynasty (the cowards forfeited the opportunity by recruiting Durant).

4 time NBA champion, 2 time MVP, best shooter of all-time, historical impact metrics at his peak. There aren't ten guys with a better individual resume.

Regarding the Dynasty argument. 3 championships in 4 years, with the one they didn't win setting the all-time record for most wins in a season ever is pretty much a dynasty. I guess for you the Spurs weren't a dynasty either, nor the Shaq and Kobe Lakers, who overall won less than Curry's Warriors.


The injuries are fact.

They played zero contenders in '15 (considering Cavaliers state) and every team they did play had multiple significant injuries.

In '17 and '18, he was part of the gutless contingent that begged Durant to join his team so that they could start on the 2 yard line while still getting injury breaks from any team that could challenge them (Scumbag, Paul, etc.)

In '22, same thing (Murray, Porter Jr., Morant, etc.

Yeah, injuries are a fact and they happen every season on every sport. There are millions of different "what ifs?" for every champion ever crowned, but at the end of the day, you play what is in front of you and staying fit for an entire season is part of the challenge. Only irrational haters would try to diminish the greatness of a won championship by coming up with excuses that can be said about any champion in every competition in the history of man kind.

If I were to play the excuse card too, I would say that injuries actually took away from Curry having 5, because if the Warriors would have been healthy in 2019 I think they would have beaten the Raptors; but that's not how things work.

And just for the record, I was a Warriors hater during that time and wanted them to lose, like any self respecting sport fan would do with a dominant team that isn't their own, but I can still recognize the greatness of a player that I rooted against for years, because I'm not a dumbass with the emotional intelligence of an 8 year old child, tbh.

[spurraider21]

1765030194077634688

[lefty]

Dude, MJ is like the blackest dude ever and he's arguably the most beloved sportsman ever. :lol
But he was making white men super rich

[Frenchfred]

Their 3 FRP would be more than fair. That is 3 high lottery picks for them and if they improve because they hit early so they are no longer lottery picks then so much the better for them.

I think that they are their picks and allow them to control their franchise destiny is an overlooked quality in those picks.

I agree with your statement but I think that Trae is flawed. If they want their 25 pick, they’ll to take Collins contract.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I agree with your statement but I think that Trae is flawed. If they want their 25 pick, they’ll to take Collins contract.

They have to take Collins, KJ and a filler to make it work.

[Atl Spur]

They have to take Collins, KJ and a filler to make it work.

Or take Trae jones, Devonte graham, and keldon OR Zollins.

[Frenchfred]

They have to take Collins, KJ and a filler to make it work.

We are under the cap, right? We could send Keldon and expiring Graham and that should enough?

[LeBowen]

We are under the cap, right? We could send Keldon and expiring Graham and that should enough?

Granham's contract is just $2M guaranteed for the next season, Hawks have no reason to take it.

Any trade involving Spurs trading away first rounders simply must have Collins also going away. We have to get rid of him, he's a detriment to the team.

[TD 21]

:lmao Accidentally clicked "like" on a post I'm about to excoriate . . .


Why?



So now you're gonna start making assumptions about me out pretty much nothing? how very childish of you. :lol I might have been giving you too much credit respecting you as a poster that I could agree or disagree with but that will argue with substance and in good faith like an intelligent mature person, tbh.



4 time NBA champion, 2 time MVP, best shooter of all-time, historical impact metrics at his peak. There aren't ten guys with a better individual resume.

Regarding the Dynasty argument. 3 championships in 4 years, with the one they didn't win setting the all-time record for most wins in a season ever is pretty much a dynasty. I guess for you the Spurs weren't a dynasty either, nor the Shaq and Kobe Lakers, who overall won less than Curry's Warriors.



Yeah, injuries are a fact and they happen every season on every sport. There are millions of different "what ifs?" for every champion ever crowned, but at the end of the day, you play what is in front of you and staying fit for an entire season is part of the challenge. Only irrational haters would try to diminish the greatness of a won championship by coming up with excuses that can be said about any champion in every competition in the history of man kind.

If I were to play the excuse card too, I would say that injuries actually took away from Curry having 5, because if the Warriors would have been healthy in 2019 I think they would have beaten the Raptors; but that's not how things work.

And just for the record, I was a Warriors hater during that time and wanted them to lose, like any self respecting sport fan would do with a dominant team that isn't their own, but I can still recognize the greatness of a player that I rooted against for years, because I'm not a dumbass with the emotional intelligence of an 8 year old child, tbh.

Because it's not your place.

Either that or I've seen enough of your act over the years to draw that conclusion. Either way, you take shots at me all the time (including in this post), but you don't see me whining about it.

I know his accolades, the debate is the credibility of them in relation to all-time greats. His recruiting of Durant should be almost as big a hit to his "legacy" as it is the latter's actually going through with it. He has no magnus opus like the others who he's supposedly in the same sphere as or even those a tier or two down like Wade and Nowitzki.

All the Curry fanboys state this, while ignoring the operative word "unprecedented". Before you say it, I'm not blaming him, just contextualizing his accomplishments. The few times he didn't catch a break or have Durant holding his hand, he conveniently didn't win.

I was never a Jordan fan, but I also can't quibble with his resume. Not sure how calling someone with such a checkered resume top 15ish all-time is "not recognizing greatness."

[DAF86]

lol "excoriate"


Because it's not your place.

Why not?


Either that or I've seen enough of your act over the years to draw that conclusion. Either way, you take shots at me all the time (including in this post), but you don't see me whining about it.

What's this supossed act of me?


I know his accolades, the debate is the credibility of them in relation to all-time greats. His recruiting of Durant should be almost as big a hit to his "legacy" as it is the latter's actually going through with it. He has no magnus opus like the others who he's supposedly in the same sphere as or even those a tier or two down like Wade and Nowitzki.

Winning one when everyone thought he and his team were past their prime and nobody expected them to win I would consider a "magnus opus", tbh.


All the Curry fanboys state this, while ignoring the operative word "unprecedented". Before you say it, I'm not blaming him, just contextualizing his accomplishments. The few times he didn't catch a break or have Durant holding his hand, he conveniently didn't win.

Durant, the same guy without whom Curry won one before and one after? Durant, the same guy that hasn't won shit without Curry holding his hand? That Durant?

Also, how does this "unprecedented" break catching plays a part on Curry grading as, arguably, the most impactful player of all time at his peak?


I was never a Jordan fan, but I also can't quibble with his resume. Not sure how calling someone with such a checkered resume top 15ish all-time is "not recognizing greatness."

Because you clearly are being disingenuous. You speak about Durant holding Curry's hand, when it is the other way around. Durant is the guy that can't ring without Steph. You also cry about "unprecedented" injury luck, when the truth is that they had "unprecedented" injury luck one time, and even then, they probably would have still won it all, with or without it.

P/S: you erase the "like" by pressing the button again.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

We are under the cap, right? We could send Keldon and expiring Graham and that should enough?

Thy change the rules every few years about salary matching so I just go to the various trade calculators and work out permutations. Keldon and Graham would not be enough. Hawks would still need to take on salary themselves.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Granham's contract is just $2M guaranteed for the next season, Hawks have no reason to take it.

Any trade involving Spurs trading away first rounders simply must have Collins also going away. We have to get rid of him, he's a detriment to the team.

If they are tanking sure they do. They are not trying to take back their draft picks AND improve their team. It is one or the other.

[TD 21]

lol "excoriate"



Why not?



What's this supossed act of me?



Winning one when everyone thought he and his team were past their prime and nobody expected them to win I would consider a "magnus opus", tbh.



Durant, the same guy without whom Curry won one before and one after? Durant, the same guy that hasn't won shit without Curry holding his hand? That Durant?

Also, how does this "unprecedented" break catching plays a part on Curry grading as, arguably, the most impactful player of all time at his peak?



Because you clearly are being disingenuous. You speak about Durant holding Curry's hand, when it is the other way around. Durant is the guy that can't ring without Steph. You also cry about "unprecedented" injury luck, when the truth is that they had "unprecedente" injury luck one time, and even then, they probably would have won it all, with or without it.

P/S: you erase the "like" by pressing the button again.

Because you can't possibly see it from the same lens the same way I couldn't if the shoe were on the other foot.

Your personality.

Won by beating decimated teams repeatedly (if only Durant, Paul, etc. could have switched places with him), which doesn't have anything to do with the fact that anyone who knew anything about this league knew they'd be starting on the 2 yard line if Durant joined them.

The "unprecedented" opponent injury luck was the lifeblood of his accomplishments and :lmao at thinking a small guard could ever have GOAT impact when their stature inherently limits the amount of areas they can influence.

Durant won the 2 Finals MVP's and was widely considered better before, during and after their time together. It's only since '22 when the Curry fanboys started to play the revisionist history game. By the way, I couldn't stand Durant since before it became fashionable to.

:tu I actually respect your knowledge too.

[Proxy]

SA isn't going to draft a PG that hits Trae's level, the dude has been top 2 in assists all season, and we already know he's clutch in the playoffs as the number one option. He'd be sidekick to wemby here, sounds like he understands that by the interviews he's given this season. If Wemby is really in a win now mentality, then making this move would probably go a long way in him staying here all career too.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

misread

[DAF86]

Because you can't possibly see it from the same lens the same way I couldn't if the shoe were on the other foot.

And whose to say your view of the situation is the correct one? I'm not saying mine is either, but if anything I can be at least impartial seeing it as a beaner from a 3rd World country. Like I responded to Chinook, we have Jordan, Iverson, Shaq, Lebron and a bunch of other players that for different reasons wouldn't appeal to the white audience. Yet, they are some of the most popular players in history. So maybe this theory about "lightskin" isn't as solid as you think it is, tbh.


Your personality.

The fuck's that supposed to mean? What about my personality screams "I love light skinned guards"? :lol


Won by beating decimated teams repeatedly (if only Durant, Paul, etc. could have switched places with him), which doesn't have anything to do with the fact that anyone who knew anything about this league knew they'd be starting on the 2 yard line if Durant joined them.

The "unprecedented" opponent injury luck was the lifeblood of his accomplishments and :lmao at thinking a small guard could ever have GOAT impact when their stature inherently limits the amount of areas they can influence.

Durant won the 2 Finals MVP's and was widely considered better before, during and after their time together. It's only since '22 when the Curry fanboys started to play the revisionist history game. By the way, I couldn't stand Durant since before it became fashionable to.

:tu I actually respect your knowledge too.

We'll never get on the same page about Curry's place among the all-time greats, tbh.

[DAF86]

Because you can't possibly see it from the same lens the same way I couldn't if the shoe were on the other foot.

And whose to say your view of the situation is the correct one? I'm not saying mine is either, but if anything I can be at least impartial seeing it as a beaner from a 3rd World country. Like I responded to Chinook, we have Jordan, Iverson, Shaq, Lebron and a bunch of other players that for different reasons wouldn't appeal to the white audience. Yet, they are some of the most popular players in history. So maybe this theory about "lightskin" isn't as solid as you think it is, tbh.


Your personality.

The fuck's that supposed to mean? What about my personality screams "I love light skinned guards"? :lol


Won by beating decimated teams repeatedly (if only Durant, Paul, etc. could have switched places with him), which doesn't have anything to do with the fact that anyone who knew anything about this league knew they'd be starting on the 2 yard line if Durant joined them.

The "unprecedented" opponent injury luck was the lifeblood of his accomplishments and :lmao at thinking a small guard could ever have GOAT impact when their stature inherently limits the amount of areas they can influence.

Durant won the 2 Finals MVP's and was widely considered better before, during and after their time together. It's only since '22 when the Curry fanboys started to play the revisionist history game. By the way, I couldn't stand Durant since before it became fashionable to.

:tu I actually respect your knowledge too.

We'll never get on the same page about Curry's place among the all-time greats, tbh.

[Dejounte]

And whose to say your view of the situation is the correct one? I'm not saying mine is either, but if anything I can be at least impartial seeing it as a beaner from a 3rd World country. Like I responded to Chinook (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=37557), we have Jordan, Iverson, Shaq, Lebron and a bunch of other players that for different reasons wouldn't appeal to the white audience. Yet, they are some of the most popular players in history. So maybe this theory about "lightskin" isn't as solid as you think it is, tbh.



The fuck's that supposed to mean? What about my personality screams "I love light skinned guards"? :lol



We'll never get on the same page about Curry's place among the all-time greats, tbh.

Shut up, racist.


…I’m fucking with you.

[DAF86]

SA isn't going to draft a PG that hits Trae's level, the dude has been top 2 in assists all season, and we already know he's clutch in the playoffs as the number one option. He'd be sidekick to wemby here, sounds like he understands that by the interviews he's given this season. If Wemby is really in a win now mentality, then making this move would probably go a long way in him staying here all career too.

Didn't care to double check, but I think Trae's shooting 29% from 3 in the playoffs and in around 40% overall.

[DAF86]

Shut up, racist.


…I’m fucking with you.

I mean, Trae is a light skinned guard and yall don't see me precisely lobbying for the guy, tbh. :lol

[Mr. Body]

I mean, Trae is a light skinned guard and yall don't see me precisely lobbying for the guy, tbh. :lol

Trae looks like a pool hall sharp who's going to hustle you for money. Curry looks like a kid your daughter brings home from high school.

[mo7888]

Didn't care to double check, but I think Trae's shooting 29% from 3 in the playoffs and in around 40% overall.

35.7% regular season 3 pt %

29.4 post season 3 pt %

[TD 21]

And whose to say your view of the situation is the correct one? I'm not saying mine is either, but if anything I can be at least impartial seeing it as a beaner from a 3rd World country. Like I responded to Chinook (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=37557), we have Jordan, Iverson, Shaq, Lebron and a bunch of other players that for different reasons wouldn't appeal to the white audience. Yet, they are some of the most popular players in history. So maybe this theory about "lightskin" isn't as solid as you think it is, tbh.



The fuck's that supposed to mean? What about my personality screams "I love light skinned guards"? :lol



We'll never get on the same page about Curry's place among the all-time greats, tbh.

I can't explain this to you any further (at least in a way that won't come off unintended) other than to say even Chinook agreed with me, which should tell you all you need to know. :lmao

It was a joke that you're taking far too serious.

[DAF86]

I can't explain this to you any further (at least in a way that won't come off unintended) other than to say even Chinook agreed with me, which should tell you all you need to know. :lmao

It was a joke that you're taking far too serious.

I know what yall trying to say, I was just trying for you to say it outright so I could hit you with the comeback, tbh. :lol

This shit about "only certain people can talk about certain things" is pretty bullshit, tbh. Anyone can talk about anything. In fact, that should be the prefered way, because that way you can get input from all types of different points of view.

But anyway, I'm not trying to get philosophical here. Back to basketball.

[Proxy]

Didn't care to double check, but I think Trae's shooting 29% from 3 in the playoffs and in around 40% overall.

I hear you, I'm thinking more eye test, not being scared of the moment, his series against the knicks kind of stuff. The volume shooting and inefficiencies... you've got me there, can't argue with that. I'd hope those shooting numbers would improve with him being in a beneficiary position to Vic instead of the focus of the playoff defensive schemes. I like the idea of the team having a competitive attitude overall with him, sochan, and wemby

[TD 21]

I know what yall trying to say, I was just trying for you to say it outright so I could hit you with the comeback, tbh. :lol

This shit about "only certain people can talk about certain things" is pretty bullshit, tbh. Anyone can talk about anything. In fact, that should be the prefered way, because that way you can get input from all types of different points of view.

But anyway, I'm not trying to get philosophical here. Back to basketball.

With certain things, you've got to be able to walk a mile in the shoes to truly understand the perspective.

[CorrectCrusader]

https://streamable.com/e6txxj

[DAF86]

With certain things, you've got to be able to walk a mile in the shoes to truly understand the perspective.

To understand that very specific perspective, sure. I can still give my perspective from where I'm at.

[Frenchfred]

Granham's contract is just $2M guaranteed for the next season, Hawks have no reason to take it.

Any trade involving Spurs trading away first rounders simply must have Collins also going away. We have to get rid of him, he's a detriment to the team.

if they trade before july 1st, then Graham is counting for 12 millions with only 2 guaranteed next year so that would be pretty much an expiring.

[Chinook]

Granham's contract is just $2M guaranteed for the next season, Hawks have no reason to take it.

Any trade involving Spurs trading away first rounders simply must have Collins also going away. We have to get rid of him, he's a detriment to the team.

The $2ish Million from Graham's contract is important for a team that doesn't have that much cap space. Don't underestimate the chances the Spurs pay a second for some team to get rid of it.


if they trade before july 1st, then Graham is counting for 12 millions with only 2 guaranteed next year so that would be pretty much an expiring.

Nah, that loophole was closed years ago. It only counts for the guaranteed portion now that the trade deadline has passed.

[Frenchfred]

Thy change the rules every few years about salary matching so I just go to the various trade calculators and work out permutations. Keldon and Graham would not be enough. Hawks would still need to take on salary themselves.

A nontaxe paying team can trade one or more players and take back 125% of the outgoing salary (plus $100K), for any amount above $19,600,000. Keldon and Graham before July 1st are 32 millions meaning that the Spurs can receive 40 millions; Trae’s salary. The Hawks get an expiring and Keldon’s contract, which is pretty decent and decreasing. That gives them 20 millions of cap spce that they can use to take another contracts for picks

[Chinook]

Keldon and Graham before July 1st are 32 millions

No. Graham's guarantee is the only thing that counts for the Spurs' side of the matching equation. It doesn't matter if it's before or after July 1 (ignoring that the guarantee probably has a trigger date somewhere between 06/25 and 07/10). That was specifically changed two CBAs ago. For Atlanta, the full salary counts, so the Hawks couldn't just take him for nothing. But if the Spurs want his salary to count, they'd have to guarantee it.

[Frenchfred]

No. Graham's guarantee is the only thing that counts. It doesn't matter if it's before or after July 1 (ignoring that the guarantee probably has a trigger date somewhere between 06/25 and 07/10). That was specifically changed two CBAs ago.

sorry, I saw your post after I posted mine. Typing a phone. So I guess that the Hawks have to take Collins.

[objective]

Can't let Wright waste those picks on Primos with obvious locks like Sengun on the board. Trade those picks for Trae before Wright screws it all up

[RC_Drunkford]

https://streamable.com/e6txxj


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ksigb7lCmZA

[Bruno]

https://streamable.com/e6txxj

That's interesting, thanks for posting.

Young is basically saying "I want to stay but you have to put a good team around me". It's a kinda similar talk to what Lillard said a year ago. When he saw what Portland did in the draft and the FA market, he asked to be traded. In Atlanta case, a big factor will be their willingness to pay the luxury tax. If they don't want to pay it, they won't even be able to re-sign Saddiq Bey this summer.

Hawks won't trade Young unless he asks to be traded. Young clearly isn't asking to be traded right now but he is putting pressure on the ownership and FO with a departure threat.

[Atl Spur]

That's interesting, thanks for posting.

Young is basically saying "I want to stay but you have to put a good team around me". It's a kinda similar talk to what Lillard said a year ago. When he saw what Portland did in the draft and the FA market, he asked to be traded. In Atlanta case, a big factor will be their willingness to pay the luxury tax. If they don't want to pay it, they won't even be able to re-sign Saddiq Bey this summer.

Hawks won't trade Young unless he asks to be traded. Young clearly isn't asking to be traded right now but he is putting pressure on the ownership and FO with a departure threat.

Bey is the pickup we need from Atlanta. Any competent point guard can thrive with Victor.

[Mr. Body]

That's interesting, thanks for posting.

Young is basically saying "I want to stay but you have to put a good team around me". It's a kinda similar talk to what Lillard said a year ago. When he saw what Portland did in the draft and the FA market, he asked to be traded. In Atlanta case, a big factor will be their willingness to pay the luxury tax. If they don't want to pay it, they won't even be able to re-sign Saddiq Bey this summer.

Hawks won't trade Young unless he asks to be traded. Young clearly isn't asking to be traded right now but he is putting pressure on the ownership and FO with a departure threat.

Young's problem is he ain't Lillard. There's no real market for Trae Young. Possibly Los Angeles, but that's doubtful, and possibly San Antonio, but I doubt that, too.

[Frenchfred]

Bey is the pickup we need from Atlanta. Any competent point guard can thrive with Victor.

Bey is a poor shooter. If we get him and Trae together with Sochan, that’s a really bad shooting team around Wemby.

[Bruno]

Young's problem is he ain't Lillard. There's no real market for Trae Young. Possibly Los Angeles, but that's doubtful, and possibly San Antonio, but I doubt that, too.

I'm not sure what would be Young trade market. He is for sure a polarizing player. For some he is one of the best young PG in the league. For some he the kind of player, with poor defense and inefficient offense, around who you can't play successful basketball.

I have no idea how he is viewed by NBA front offices including Spurs' one.

[Pauleta14]

I'm not sure what would be Young trade market. He is for sure a polarizing player. For some he is one of the best young PG in the league. For some he the kind of player, with poor defense and inefficient offense, around who you can't play successful basketball.

I have no idea how he is viewed by NBA front offices including Spurs' one.

And how do u see him personally?

too much of a risk?

[LeBowen]

Young's problem is he ain't Lillard. There's no real market for Trae Young. Possibly Los Angeles, but that's doubtful, and possibly San Antonio, but I doubt that, too.

Orlando will definitely make an offer if he's available.
Jazz could do it if Ainge decides not to tank, but to build around Markkanen. I think this is the summer when they either make some winning trades or get rid of Markkanen. Treadmilling like they currently are is pointless.
Since it's Ainge, it's more likely they blow it up before two strong drafts.

[Kevin]

Orlando will definitely make an offer if he's available.
Jazz could do it if Ainge decides not to tank, but to build around Markkanen. I think this is the summer when they either make some winning trades or get rid of Markkanen. Treadmilling like they currently are is pointless.
Since it's Ainge, it's more likely they blow it up before two strong drafts.

God I hope you're right about Utah blowing it up. I'd offer the Spurs and Raps picks for Lauri and the Bulls pick. Hawks picks aren't for sale because their earmarked for Trae.

[Bruno]

And how do u see him personally?

too much of a risk?

Well, I really like him and I would welcome a trade for him. Young and Wembanyama would be great.

Saying that, it's just my personal opinion and people not liking him have valid points. I would fully understand if Spurs weren't interested in him at all.

[LeBowen]

God I hope you're right about Utah blowing it up. I'd offer the Spurs and Raps picks for Lauri and the Bulls pick. Hawks picks aren't for sale because their earmarked for Trae.

I didn't realize he's got just one more year left on his deal.
If that's an offer they'd accept, with Collins also going the other way, I'd do it in an instant.
But then again, Spurs would have to give him a max extension right away.

[Pauleta14]

Well, I really like him and I would welcome a trade for him. Young and Wembanyama would be great.

Saying that, it's just my personal opinion and people not liking him have valid points. I would fully understand if Spurs weren't interested in him at all.

Thx. I value ur pov and hadn’t seen it yet

so you’re in the « speed up the process » camp I assume ? :lol

[Kevin]

I didn't realize he's got just one more year left on his deal.
If that's an offer they'd accept, with Collins also going the other way, I'd do it in an instant.
But then again, Spurs would have to give him a max extension right away.

It would probably cost Dev plus Spurs and Raps pick along with the Spurs taking back the final two years of the John Collins contract. Collins and Dev make the same salary next year and the Spurs could absorb Lauri's last year with their cap space.

[LeBowen]

It would probably cost Dev plus Spurs and Raps pick along with the Spurs taking back the final two years of the John Collins contract. Collins and Dev make the same salary next year and the Spurs could absorb Lauri's last year with their cap space.

We're talking about Markkanen with one year left on his deal, not prime Dirk.
I'd rather have Naz Reid for PF position.
Can shoot, younger, good defender, great contract, can play the backup C in smaller lineups.

[Kevin]

We're talking about Markkanen with one year left on his deal, not prime Dirk.
I'd rather have Naz Reid for PF position.
Can shoot, younger, good defender, great contract, can play the backup C in smaller lineups.

Lauri's averaged 24/8.5 the past two seasons shooting 39% from three while shooting 49% overall. He's not too far off prime Dirk these past two years.

His Win Share Per 48 the past two seasons is equal to career average Kobe Bryant.

[LeBowen]

Lauri's averaged 24/8.5 the past two seasons shooting 39% from three while shooting 49% overall. He's not too far off prime Dirk these past two years.

His Win Share Per 48 the past two seasons is equal to career average Kobe Bryant.

He'll be a 27 year old on expiring contract with not a single playoff game by the time next season starts.
If they want Devin, I wouldn't give any valuable picks with him, especially not top5. They can have Keldon and Collins to pair with their Collins as turd tower tank commanders.

[spurraider21]

I’m not moving Devin + picks unless the package is for a tier 1 star, and i don’t see the spurs doing that

young is not among them. Nor Lauri

[Kevin]

He'll be a 27 year old on expiring contract with not a single playoff game by the time next season starts.
If they want Devin, I wouldn't give any valuable picks with him, especially not top5. They can have Keldon and Collins to pair with their Collins as turd tower tank commanders.

Lauri's game will age very well given his size and shooting ability. A Wemby/Lauri/Trae big three would be a perfect on offense.

[exstatic]

Lauri's averaged 24/8.5 the past two seasons shooting 39% from three while shooting 49% overall. He's not too far off prime Dirk these past two years.

His Win Share Per 48 the past two seasons is equal to career average Kobe Bryant.

Ending contract who, by virtue of his current bargain deal, won’t extend as a part of any trade. You pay for a one year rental, accordingly.

Those WS/48s are an aberration to the rest of his career, and could easily be a function of being in a large role on a team with no expectations or limits on players touches. It would be much smarter to expect Chicago and Cleveland Markkanen to re-emerge.

[LeBowen]

Lauri's game will age very well given his size and shooting ability. A Wemby/Lauri/Trae big three would be a perfect on offense.

I didn't say his game won't age well, I just don't think a player with zero playoff games should cost as much as a proven star.
Trading for both Trae and Lauri would mean that Spurs have no assets left and it would leave us with more or less zero useful players in SG/SF positions.

I wouldn't go for both Trae and Lauri. Either or.
But as the time goes on, I'm leaning towards not trading for a star just yet.

Celtics won't be able to extend Derrick, just give them their swap back. If they don't win a ring this year they'll surely want to make moves again.
Then as I already said Naz Reid because TWolves are also in shit cap situation.
And one of Trey Murphy or Herb Jones because they're more or less the same play, Pelicans already have Ingram and they need improvements in other positions.

Derrick-Devin-Herb-Naz-Wemby.
That's GOAT defensive team potential if we talk modern game and all of them can shoot on high level.

[Kevin]

Ending contract who, by virtue of his current bargain deal, won’t extend as a part of any trade. You pay for a one year rental, accordingly.

Those WS/48s are an aberration to the rest of his career, and could easily be a function of being in a large role on a team with no expectations or limits on players touches. It would be much smarter to expect Chicago and Cleveland Markkanen to re-emerge.

Yeah or maybe Lauri's a late bloomer like so many people want Dev to be.

This deal would be contingent on Lauri being open to extension which the Spurs could front load so when they have to pay Wemby Lauri's salary will drop significantly.

[scott]

Lauri is really good - there is no reason for anyone to hate on him... but you aren't getting him cheap because Ainge fucks over everyone he deals with. The fact you can't extend Lauri combined with Ainge's shark maneuvers make him non-attainable via trade.

[Kevin]

I didn't say his game won't age well, I just don't think a player with zero playoff games should cost as much as a proven star.
Trading for both Trae and Lauri would mean that Spurs have no assets left and it would leave us with more or less zero useful players in SG/SF positions.

I wouldn't go for both Trae and Lauri. Either or.
But as the time goes on, I'm leaning towards not trading for a star just yet.

Celtics won't be able to extend Derrick, just give them their swap back. If they don't win a ring this year they'll surely want to make moves again.
Then as I already said Naz Reid because TWolves are also in shit cap situation.
And one of Trey Murphy or Herb Jones because they're more or less the same play, Pelicans already have Ingram and they need improvements in other positions.

Derrick-Devin-Herb-Naz-Wemby.
That's GOAT defensive team potential if we talk modern game and all of them can shoot on high level.

Spurs will be first era Cleveland Lebron next season where their star player is so good their picks will no longer be very good. Same thing happened in Dallas with Luka.

If Trea stays in Atlanta those picks hover in the 8-10 range with the Spurs and Bulls pick in the 12-20 range. Not sure why people have such a hard-on for these picks especially with Wright drafting.

[LeBowen]

Spurs will be first era Cleveland Lebron next season where their star player is so good their picks will no longer be very good. Same thing happened in Dallas with Luka.

If Trea stays in Atlanta those picks hover in the 8-10 range with the Spurs and Bulls pick in the 12-20 range. Not sure why people have such a hard-on for these picks especially with Wright drafting.

I said many times giving Hawks their picks back for Trae would be a fair deal, with Keldon and Collins to match salaries.
If they want something ridiculous like five first-rounders, then they're happy to look for those somewhere else.

And those players I mentioned would cost a FRP each.

[Kevin]

I said many times giving Hawks their picks back for Trae would be a fair deal, with Keldon and Collins to match salaries.
If they want something ridiculous like five first-rounders, then they're happy to look for those somewhere else.

And those players I mentioned would cost a FRP each.

I agree the Hawks can have all their firsts back plus Keldon while taking on some dead weight in Zollins. They can also have the Hornets fake first back to to save face.

[Atl Spur]

Bey is a poor shooter. If we get him and Trae together with Sochan, that’s a really bad shooting team around Wemby.

Sir, jones is not going to be your pg moving forward ( poor vision / dribbling/ shooting ) as a starter. Bey and Sochan can coexist in the same lineup. If you add Young look out!

[poopbox]

I didn't realize he's got just one more year left on his deal.
If that's an offer they'd accept, with Collins also going the other way, I'd do it in an instant.
But then again, Spurs would have to give him a max extension right away.

not sure the spurs should be maxing a guy who spent most of his career averaging 15 and 7. That would be like maxing the atlanta version of John Collins

[Kevin]

The Lauri disrespect is crazy. Dude was a late bloomer.

Kawhi was a 12/6 guy through his first four years. Joker was a 15/9 guy through his first three years.

[JPB]

Would they have the assets is another question but there would be no shortage of teams interested in Young. For all the flaws you do or don't see in him, he's known quantity in a league where proven talent is what you're looking for, as a still young former/potential all star who can still improve... Picks are not as valuable as they're used to, and you can hold to them all you want, fantasizing about drafting the next gem but statiscally very few of your picks (for any team) will end up as a player as valuable as Young, specially after the top 3 after which there's always a huge cliff.

big markets (LA, NY, Miami, Boston) don't buld through the draft anymore and will always consider any opportunity to add proven talent via trades, if anything for marketing and business reasons too. Gotta sell dem expensive tickets. Their volatile fanbases won't pay to see a bunch rookies and sophomores. and I should say that's what the whole NBA tends to... Long, classic rebuildings are gonna become a thing of the past. Detroit has been taking for a while now, adding picks, and they don't really seem to go anywhere, and I'm seeing some worrying similarities with our spurs. It's only been two years of "official" tanking and the perspectives wouldn't be that much better if they decide to keep that road, just adding two picks this summer, leading to another 2-3 years of hard to watch basketball and no real competitive team.

[lefty]

The Lauri disrespect is crazy. Dude was a late bloomer.

Kawhi was a 12/6 guy through his first four years. Joker was a 15/9 guy through his first three years.
This tbh

[TheGreatYacht]

Trade the picks. Brian Wrong’s eye for talent is as bad as the fuckers I see in the Draft thread

[Mr. Body]

Would they have the assets is another question but there would be no shortage of teams interested in Young.

Who?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Would they have the assets is another question but there would be no shortage of teams interested in Young.

Name a single asset that any other team has that is worth more to the Hawks than getting any one of their picks back from the Spurs and de facto entering the tankathon?

[exstatic]

Yeah or maybe Lauri's a late bloomer like so many people want Dev to be.

This deal would be contingent on Lauri being open to extension which the Spurs could front load so when they have to pay Wemby Lauri's salary will drop significantly.

You don’t trade for someone who is “open” to an extension, or you’re likely to wind up with a Marcus Morris II. If they can’t or won’t sign one, they’re an ending contract, and should be paid for like one or not acquired. It’s a business.

[poopbox]

The Lauri disrespect is crazy. Dude was a late bloomer.

Kawhi was a 12/6 guy through his first four years. Joker was a 15/9 guy through his first three years.

I honestly don't understand what Lauri is supposed to be doing on a basketball court to help Wemby, especially over point guard play, which we desperately need.

Lauri would be fine on a good deal...but it's probably going to take a max or so close to a max it might as well be a max contract to keep him if you can trade for him.

[DAF86]

I honestly don't understand what Lauri is supposed to be doing on a basketball court to help Wemby, especially over point guard play, which we desperately need.

Lauri would be fine on a good deal...but it's probably going to take a max or so close to a max it might as well be a max contract to keep him if you can trade for him.

The most important thing, which is what Wemby is most lacking right now, even more than a guy that throws him lobs, is spacing. Lauri is an elite floor spacer at the PF position. Not only as a shooter, but as an off ball mover. He has an knack for making high IQ reads and cuts. Also, he's 6'11", so in matchups like last nights, he can take on opposing centers to give Wemby a breather.

[ambchang]

Lauri's averaged 24/8.5 the past two seasons shooting 39% from three while shooting 49% overall. He's not too far off prime Dirk these past two years.

His Win Share Per 48 the past two seasons is equal to career average Kobe Bryant.

It's a testament to how overrated Kobe Bryant is, and funny how you woud pick ws/48 for a prime compared to somebody's career average, then neglect it with another player, but only raw stats with that player.

I mean, Dirk, in his prime, averaged 26/9 on about 49/40 shooting splits, in a league with a much slower pace, and ws of .275 vs. Markkanen's .172 or so. Dirk's per 100 possession was 38/13 while Lauri was 35/12.

Don't get me wrong, but Lauri's no where close to prime Dirk overall, even though I would love to have him on the Spurs, just not at that price.

[TD 21]

I agree the Hawks can have all their firsts back plus Keldon while taking on some dead weight in Zollins. They can also have the Hornets fake first back to to save face.

I would think the Spurs would have to include either the Craptors or Bulls 1st (with the slight compromise of the Spurs including Collins and receiving Capela; a better fit who'll be on an expiring) so that the Hawks can at least sell that they got clearly more for Young than they gave up for Murray.

[scott]

It's just a weird discussion. There are plenty of reasons to not try to go after Lauri (his contract situation, the cost it will take to acquire him) that don't require pretending he isn't a really good player.

[Kevin]

It's just a weird discussion. There are plenty of reasons to not try to go after Lauri (his contract situation, the cost it will take to acquire him) that don't require pretending he isn't a really good player.

Yeah Lauri is a stud and the perfect twin tower compliment to Wemby. If you don't like the price tag or are afraid he'll be a rental that's a whole different story.

[Cry Havoc]

It's just a weird discussion. There are plenty of reasons to not try to go after Lauri (his contract situation, the cost it will take to acquire him) that don't require pretending he isn't a really good player.

Agreed, if we had a shot at him without selling the farm, we'd be stupid not to take it.

There are roughly 27-28 teams that would kill to have Lauri on their team ATM.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I wonder if we could get both DJ and Young.

[spurraider21]

I wonder if we could get both DJ and Young.
something tells me they wouldnt fit well together

[pad300]

I wonder if we could get both DJ and Young.

Why would we want to? Their incompatibility on the court is the single biggest thing that's making the hawks a bad team...

[FuzzyLumpkins]

something tells me they wouldnt fit well together

that is fair. It is just that neither one of them are worth all 3 of their picks back alone.

[spurraider21]

that is fair. It is just that neither one of them are worth all 3 of their picks back alone.
would have to be a bigger deal where they get sent to different places, but i cant see the hawks doing that from a PR perspective

i think young is worth all their picks back tbh. in the same way that we say the picks have unique value to atlanta, its a bit of a double edged sword. those picks arent as valuable for SA if the hawks have both murray and young. even if theyre not great together, they provide atlanta with a safe floor to the point where those picks arent going to be very high lotto picks. but if trae/dejounte leave, then those picks become very valuable to SA

[FuzzyLumpkins]

would have to be a bigger deal where they get sent to different places, but i cant see the hawks doing that from a PR perspective

i think young is worth all their picks back tbh. in the same way that we say the picks have unique value to atlanta, its a bit of a double edged sword. those picks arent as valuable for SA if the hawks have both murray and young. even if theyre not great together, they provide atlanta with a safe floor to the point where those picks arent going to be very high lotto picks. but if trae/dejounte leave, then those picks become very valuable to SA

All stars are not worth 3 high lottery picks IMO. DJ traded for picks that were expected much higher and in fact are still worth less in their current form.

People act like this is Durant and 5 picks territory but guys like Irving or Vucevic go for 1 or 2 picks and none of those picks are as good as having 3 of their own picks back in this reality.

[spurraider21]

All stars are not worth 3 high lottery picks IMO. DJ traded for picks that were expected much higher and in fact are still worth less in their current form.

People act like this is Durant and 5 picks territory but guys like Irving or Vucevic go for 1 or 2 picks and none of those picks are as good as having 3 of their own picks back in this reality.
its not durant 5 picks territory. its 2 picks + 1 swap. id throw in the charlotte pick as well since that one at this point seems more likely to just wind up as SRPs anyway. if they agree to take on collins as well it would make me more amenable to lumping the bulls pick instead of the charlotte pick, but im not even sure id want to go that far

[FuzzyLumpkins]

its not durant 5 picks territory. its 2 picks + 1 swap. id throw in the charlotte pick as well since that one at this point seems more likely to just wind up as SRPs anyway. if they agree to take on collins as well it would make me more amenable to lumping the bulls pick instead of the charlotte pick, but im not even sure id want to go that far

the swap is for a likely lottery pick. I definitely never want you negotiating for me.

[SOMA Spur]

I’m not moving Devin + picks unless the package is for a tier 1 star, and i don’t see the spurs doing that

young is not among them. Nor Lauri

^ this. If I'm ATL, I'm asking Devin plus picks for Trae and not budging from that. And the Spurs will walk away as they should. I've even thought of REALLY aggressive pick packages for Trae (4 first and a swap or two), but I just don't see the Hawks going for it and trading the face of their franchise and the most loved Hawk since Nique, for some picks and Keldon. Trae puts butts in seats and their owner values that more than anything else. So unless Trae asks out (which he might, the media will surely be beating that drum incessantly), I don't see him being traded.

I've also come to learn that their Sacto pick this year is a coin flip to convey. The Lakers/Warriors might knock out the Kings in the play in and push this pick to '25. If it does, the Hawks just aren't that hard up for picks. They've got #10 this year, '25 might be #13-15, the '26 swap might be a big meh, and they're just missing a '27 which they'll probably recoup in other ways (Dejounte trade or something). So it wont be picks they're after, but rather a big name to trade for for Trae, and it ain't coming from the Spurs.

[spurraider21]

the swap is for a likely lottery pick. I definitely never want you negotiating for me.
its a likely lottery pick if Young is off the Hawks. if we just decline to make a trade and young stays with the hawks, its not very likely that their picks are anything exceptional

the hawks havent missed the playoff since young began his 3rd nba season. they may miss it this year, to be fair

[FuzzyLumpkins]

its a likely lottery pick if Young is off the Hawks. if we just decline to make a trade and young stays with the hawks, its not very likely that their picks are anything exceptional

the hawks havent missed the playoff since young began his 3rd nba season. they may miss it this year, to be fair

The Hawks have been trending down in team performance ever since they made the ECF to the treadmill level they now enjoy. That is the risk the Hawks are running. We are assuming they continue to tread but if they continue this trend and they do not have lottery picks PR is going to be the least of their worries.

The Hawks have a lot more reason to want this trade and the Spurs not so much. The Spurs picture on the other side of the opportunity cost situ is straight rosy compared to the Hawks.

[exstatic]

its a likely lottery pick if Young is off the Hawks. if we just decline to make a trade and young stays with the hawks, its not very likely that their picks are anything exceptional

the hawks havent missed the playoff since young began his 3rd nba season. they may miss it this year, to be fair

Young was on the Hawks this year, and they’re in the lottery. Definitely on the down trend.

[SpurSpike]

Trae keeps saying he only cares about is winning... DeJounte said the same thing right before he was traded... Its the political way of saying if i don't win where i'm at i'm going to try to win somewhere else without making it personal.

[T Park]

nothing like blowing your best draft capital and cap space on a guy who's team plays better when hes not around.

seems like a great move.

[objective]

Jalen Johnson sprained his ankle, Kobe Buffkin messed up his toe and is in a walking boot, that team is falling apart

[TD 21]

nothing like blowing your best draft capital and cap space on a guy who's team plays better when hes not around.

seems like a great move.

:lmao At relying on small sample size theater to push this cliche, agenda driven NBA take.

[ambchang]

Another thing to keep in mind about the Spurs not trading the draft picks, is the fact that it takes many times to hit the right player. Despite what some posters here think, no FO hits 100%, most don't even hit 20%. If the Spurs can get, 1 maybe 2 good championship level players out of the draft, and maybe another few who can be rotational players, that would be a template for success.

Check OKC, who people praise to no end about their drafting. First consider that they started off with way more assets to trade away than the Spurs, due to the fact they had to blow up a roster with 3 future MVPs and Serge Ibaka, all highly tradeable players who can net them a war chest, vs. the Spurs who essentially got undercut by nephew.

Durant nets them nothing
Harden got them Kevin Martin, Jeremy Lamb, two 1sts and a 2nd round pick (eventually became Adams, and some fodder, I think).
Westbrook got them Chris Paul and 4 1st round picks.
Serge Ibaka became Sabonis and Oladipo, who later became Paul George, who then became Shai and bunch of picks.

Since 2015:

2015 - Cameron Payne (could've been Kelly Oubre Jr, Terry Rozier, Bobby Portis, Tyus Jones, Larry Nance Jr, Montrezl Harrell, Norman Powell).
2016 - Domantas Sabonis - great pick, but lost him for nothing, I think. Only one after him better is arguably Pascal Siakim.
2017 - Terrance Ferguson (could've been Jarret Allen, OG Anunoby, Kyle Kuzma, Derrick White, Josh Hart), Daniel Hamilton, Dakari Johnson.
2018 - all 2nd round picks, not that great.
2019 - Brandon Clarke, but traded to Memphis for 2024 2nd round pick, which became Darius Bazley
2020 - Aleksej Pokusevski - just cut. Could've been Quickley (whom the Thunder actually drafted and traded for Aleksej), Saddiq Bey, Tyrese Maxey, Payton Pritchard, Desmond Bane, Xavier Tillman, Tre Jones.
2021 - Josh Giddey - decent pick, but could've been Kuminga, Wagner, Joshua Primo, Alperen (who was drafted by OKC and tarded away for 2022 and 2023 1st round picks), Trey Murphy III.
2021 - Tre Mann - could've been Jalen Johnson, Cam Thomas, Herb Jones.
2022 - Chet Holmgren (no brainer)
2022 - Ousmane Dieng - Could've been Jalen Williams (who they drafted next), Jalen Duran, Mark Williams, Tari Eason, Walker Kessler, Nikola Jovic, Nembhard, Jaden Hardy.
2022 - Jalen Wililams - out of the park, best possible player
2023 - Cason Wallace - looking good so far, but also could have been Dereck Lively (whom they drafted and traded for Wallace), Gradey Dick, Keyonte George, Jaime Jaquez, Cam Whitmore, or GG Jackson.

Of these dozen or so 1st round picks, I would say 1 is a no brainer (Chet), 1 was out of the park good (J Williams), and 1 was great, but ultimately didn't really got them far (Sabonis).

This is the rebuild that got OKC here, and Presti was roundly criticized over the years for trading for trading's sake, until he landed no Shai, because he started with 3 MVP level player and one all star (ironically it was Ibaka who somehow resulted in Shai). Yes, Spurs are bad now, but they basically had nephew undermine them and took out even a chance for them to recoup much of value.

[spurraider21]

Another thing to keep in mind about the Spurs not trading the draft picks, is the fact that it takes many times to hit the right player. Despite what some posters here think, no FO hits 100%, most don't even hit 20%. If the Spurs can get, 1 maybe 2 good championship level players out of the draft, and maybe another few who can be rotational players, that would be a template for success.

Check OKC, who people praise to no end about their drafting. First consider that they started off with way more assets to trade away than the Spurs, due to the fact they had to blow up a roster with 3 future MVPs and Serge Ibaka, all highly tradeable players who can net them a war chest, vs. the Spurs who essentially got undercut by nephew.

Durant nets them nothing
Harden got them Kevin Martin, Jeremy Lamb, two 1sts and a 2nd round pick (eventually became Adams, and some fodder, I think).
Westbrook got them Chris Paul and 4 1st round picks.
Serge Ibaka became Sabonis and Oladipo, who later became Paul George, who then became Shai and bunch of picks.

Since 2015:

2015 - Cameron Payne (could've been Kelly Oubre Jr, Terry Rozier, Bobby Portis, Tyus Jones, Larry Nance Jr, Montrezl Harrell, Norman Powell).
2016 - Domantas Sabonis - great pick, but lost him for nothing, I think. Only one after him better is arguably Pascal Siakim.
2017 - Terrance Ferguson (could've been Jarret Allen, OG Anunoby, Kyle Kuzma, Derrick White, Josh Hart), Daniel Hamilton, Dakari Johnson.
2018 - all 2nd round picks, not that great.
2019 - Brandon Clarke, but traded to Memphis for 2024 2nd round pick, which became Darius Bazley
2020 - Aleksej Pokusevski - just cut. Could've been Quickley (whom the Thunder actually drafted and traded for Aleksej), Saddiq Bey, Tyrese Maxey, Payton Pritchard, Desmond Bane, Xavier Tillman, Tre Jones.
2021 - Josh Giddey - decent pick, but could've been Kuminga, Wagner, Joshua Primo, Alperen (who was drafted by OKC and tarded away for 2022 and 2023 1st round picks), Trey Murphy III.
2021 - Tre Mann - could've been Jalen Johnson, Cam Thomas, Herb Jones.
2022 - Chet Holmgren (no brainer)
2022 - Ousmane Dieng - Could've been Jalen Williams (who they drafted next), Jalen Duran, Mark Williams, Tari Eason, Walker Kessler, Nikola Jovic, Nembhard, Jaden Hardy.
2022 - Jalen Wililams - out of the park, best possible player
2023 - Cason Wallace - looking good so far, but also could have been Dereck Lively (whom they drafted and traded for Wallace), Gradey Dick, Keyonte George, Jaime Jaquez, Cam Whitmore, or GG Jackson.

Of these dozen or so 1st round picks, I would say 1 is a no brainer (Chet), 1 was out of the park good (J Williams), and 1 was great, but ultimately didn't really got them far (Sabonis).

This is the rebuild that got OKC here, and Presti was roundly criticized over the years for trading for trading's sake, until he landed no Shai, because he started with 3 MVP level player and one all star (ironically it was Ibaka who somehow resulted in Shai). Yes, Spurs are bad now, but they basically had nephew undermine them and took out even a chance for them to recoup much of value.
sabonis was part of their trade for paul george who was then flipped for SGA and a boatload of picks

[Seventyniner]

2021 - Josh Giddey - decent pick, but could've been Kuminga, Wagner, Joshua Primo, Alperen (who was drafted by OKC and tarded away for 2022 and 2023 1st round picks), Trey Murphy III.

bro wut

[Ariel]

bro wut
:lol stole the words right out of my mouth, I almost choked with my coffee reading that.

[ambchang]

sabonis was part of their trade for paul george who was then flipped for SGA and a boatload of picks

Thanks, I thought he was lost in free agency for some reason. Makes a lot of sense how they were able to get that load with just Ibaka then.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Hawks want this trade more than the Spurs. That is why they were squawking all the way to the deadline. The reports were that the Spurs were after Murray and they had reporters asking him what he thought of SA. He spoke fondly of his time.

Hawks are circling the competitive drain steady since making the ECF. No trade: they are in the lottery with no pick.

The writing is on the wall.

[Mr. Body]

Hawks want this trade more than the Spurs. That is why they were squawking all the way to the deadline. The reports were that the Spurs were after Murray and they had reporters asking him what he thought of SA. He spoke fondly of his time.

Hawks are circling the competitive drain steady since making the ECF. No trade: they are in the lottery with no pick.

The writing is on the wall.

I've been saying this, too.

I don't think there's interest in Young. He's not a winning player and his reputation is really bad. Atlanta really wants to get rid of him.

[CGD]

I've been saying this, too.

I don't think there's interest in Young. He's not a winning player and his reputation is really bad. Atlanta really wants to get rid of him.

I think this is spot on.

[CGD]

Another thing to keep in mind about the Spurs not trading the draft picks, is the fact that it takes many times to hit the right player. Despite what some posters here think, no FO hits 100%, most don't even hit 20%. If the Spurs can get, 1 maybe 2 good championship level players out of the draft, and maybe another few who can be rotational players, that would be a template for success.

Check OKC, who people praise to no end about their drafting. First consider that they started off with way more assets to trade away than the Spurs, due to the fact they had to blow up a roster with 3 future MVPs and Serge Ibaka, all highly tradeable players who can net them a war chest, vs. the Spurs who essentially got undercut by nephew.

Durant nets them nothing
Harden got them Kevin Martin, Jeremy Lamb, two 1sts and a 2nd round pick (eventually became Adams, and some fodder, I think).
Westbrook got them Chris Paul and 4 1st round picks.
Serge Ibaka became Sabonis and Oladipo, who later became Paul George, who then became Shai and bunch of picks.

Since 2015:

2015 - Cameron Payne (could've been Kelly Oubre Jr, Terry Rozier, Bobby Portis, Tyus Jones, Larry Nance Jr, Montrezl Harrell, Norman Powell).
2016 - Domantas Sabonis - great pick, but lost him for nothing, I think. Only one after him better is arguably Pascal Siakim.
2017 - Terrance Ferguson (could've been Jarret Allen, OG Anunoby, Kyle Kuzma, Derrick White, Josh Hart), Daniel Hamilton, Dakari Johnson.
2018 - all 2nd round picks, not that great.
2019 - Brandon Clarke, but traded to Memphis for 2024 2nd round pick, which became Darius Bazley
2020 - Aleksej Pokusevski - just cut. Could've been Quickley (whom the Thunder actually drafted and traded for Aleksej), Saddiq Bey, Tyrese Maxey, Payton Pritchard, Desmond Bane, Xavier Tillman, Tre Jones.
2021 - Josh Giddey - decent pick, but could've been Kuminga, Wagner, Joshua Primo, Alperen (who was drafted by OKC and tarded away for 2022 and 2023 1st round picks), Trey Murphy III.
2021 - Tre Mann - could've been Jalen Johnson, Cam Thomas, Herb Jones.
2022 - Chet Holmgren (no brainer)
2022 - Ousmane Dieng - Could've been Jalen Williams (who they drafted next), Jalen Duran, Mark Williams, Tari Eason, Walker Kessler, Nikola Jovic, Nembhard, Jaden Hardy.
2022 - Jalen Wililams - out of the park, best possible player
2023 - Cason Wallace - looking good so far, but also could have been Dereck Lively (whom they drafted and traded for Wallace), Gradey Dick, Keyonte George, Jaime Jaquez, Cam Whitmore, or GG Jackson.

Of these dozen or so 1st round picks, I would say 1 is a no brainer (Chet), 1 was out of the park good (J Williams), and 1 was great, but ultimately didn't really got them far (Sabonis).

This is the rebuild that got OKC here, and Presti was roundly criticized over the years for trading for trading's sake, until he landed no Shai, because he started with 3 MVP level player and one all star (ironically it was Ibaka who somehow resulted in Shai). Yes, Spurs are bad now, but they basically had nephew undermine them and took out even a chance for them to recoup much of value.

It’s a good point. OKC gets a lot of love for their trades (which is fair), but the jury is out on their actual drafting.

[Mr. Body]

I didn't realize Sabonis was a Thunder for a year. It's astounding how much talent has gone through that franchise and they still don't have a ring.

[TD 21]

Yeah, it's almost like this is mostly based on luck . . . I know, let's base the near future of a GOAT caliber prospect on it.

[rankingtear]

ATL has held their opponents to below or at 100 in the last 7 games since Trae went down. Small sampe size? or is ATL a top 5 defense without him.

[pad300]

ATL has held their opponents to below or at 100 in the last 7 games since Trae went down. Small sampe size? or is ATL a top 5 defense without him.

They are also 5 wins from 7; whereas with Trae they went 24 from 56...

[Atl Spur]

Trae works here for the right price and if he is a cancer you trade him to someone else for assets. Do it before you start paying Victor.

[TD 21]

ATL has held their opponents to below or at 100 in the last 7 games since Trae went down. Small sampe size? or is ATL a top 5 defense without him.

Again with the small sample size theater to push an agenda.

Naturally their defense would be better without him but this is an offense first league and whatever they gain on defense they'll more than lose on offense in the long run without him.

[buttsR4rebounding]

Can't let Wright waste those picks on Primos with obvious locks like Sengun on the board. Trade those picks for Trae before Wright screws it all up

Anyone who thinks Wright is making these picks in a vacuum is delusional. The Spurs develop their board as a group effort. Wright didn’t take Primo or Vassel or Sochan it was a group think decision that he was tasked with executing.

[objective]

Anyone who thinks Wright is making these picks in a vacuum is delusional. The Spurs develop their board as a group effort. Wright didn’t take Primo or Vassel or Sochan it was a group think decision that he was tasked with executing.


He can take the title and take the cash, he can take the blame

If he doesn't have any input or power or responsibility, he has the best job ever with nice seats

[buttsR4rebounding]

He can take the title and take the cash, he can take the blame

If he doesn't have any input or power or responsibility, he has the best job ever with nice seats

I never said he didn’t have input, but so do other people. Do you think if Pop and RC weren’t on board that he would have chosen any of his picks? I guarantee you Pop’s fingerprints are all over every pick.

[Atl Spur]

He can take the title and take the cash, he can take the blame

If he doesn't have any input or power or responsibility, he has the best job ever with nice seats

Brother, let go of the hate! I’m sure he hasn’t learned anything from two of the best in the business ( Rc / Pop )…..

[exstatic]

Anyone who thinks Wright is making these picks in a vacuum is delusional. The Spurs develop their board as a group effort. Wright didn’t take Primo or Vassel or Sochan it was a group think decision that he was tasked with executing.

This was kind of lost in the shuffle. PATFO sits down and does an entire 60 player draft board. It IS, in fact, a team effort, and when their pick comes on the clock, they draft the highest remaining player on their board.

[Frenchfred]

Again with the small sample size theater to push an agenda.

Naturally their defense would be better without him but this is an offense first league and whatever they gain on defense they'll more than lose on offense in the long run without him.

small sample size but so far Atlanta is winning with better defense, that's the reality.

[RC_Drunkford]

DJ is averaging 24.3/6.1/8.4/1.4 since Trae went down, while shooting 36% from 3 on 7.1 attempts. Honestly not a huge disparity between the 2. Small sample size, but DJ averages 21.8/5.3/5.7 for the season, so it's not far fetched that he could keep this up as a starting PG.

[TD 21]

small sample size but so far Atlanta is winning with better defense, that's the reality.

Well then Branham is one of the best shooters in the league.

[Frenchfred]

Well then Branham is one of the best shooters in the league.

we'll see in the long run if that continues but for now Atlanta seems to be playing better

[JeffDuncan]

DJ is averaging 24.3/6.1/8.4/1.4 since Trae went down, while shooting 36% from 3 on 7.1 attempts. Honestly not a huge disparity between the 2. Small sample size, but DJ averages 21.8/5.3/5.7 for the season, so it's not far fetched that he could keep this up as a starting PG.


Of course it isn’t far fetched. Recall DJM as a Spur in 2021-22. 68 games, 34.8 min/game, plenty of data.

21.1 points, 9.2 assists, 8.3 rebounds, 2.0 steals.

From his known record, DJM can give them the stats, including more assists.

[JeffDuncan]

ATL has held their opponents to below or at 100 in the last 7 games since Trae went down. Small sampe size? or is ATL a top 5 defense without him.


The Nets beat the Hawks twice, scoring 124 and 114. Recheck your data. You are probably looking at the wrong column.

Also, Knicks game, neither Brunson nor Anunoby played. Randall is still out.

Cavs, no Mitchell, no Mobley, no Strus.

Memphis, still a train wreck, with all the injuries.

There’s nothing much to see there, to provide a basis for judgment.

[Dverde]

It seems DJ is over being butt hurt about trade rumors and back on twitter.

https://x.com/dejountemurray/status/1766323132468519206?s=46

[Mr. Body]

Damn Dejounte needs to get off social media.

[TimmyBuckets]

Nobody wants DJ back on this team. We built him up just to get Wemby. Let that immature brat go to LA. It's the perfect place for him.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Nobody wants DJ back on this team. We built him up just to get Wemby. Let that immature brat go to LA. It's the perfect place for him.

DJ was asked about these rumors before the deadline and he spoke fondly of his time in SA. You of course have no way of knowing how a Hawk or Spurs executive feels.

[TimmyBuckets]

DJ was asked about these rumors before the deadline and he spoke fondly of his time in SA. You of course have no way of knowing how a Hawk or Spurs executive feels.

Good thing is we know how DJ thinks ( as seen with Jack the Flipper in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VZykbSv7nk). Also he's been active on social media criticizing the Spurs before. Do I know how they feel? No. However, executives have been petty in the past and refused to deal with teams for many reasons (i.e. CP3 to LA). Trae is a better scorer and facilitator and a legit star. Did DJ lead his team to the WCF or to the first round? No. Trae is worth trading for in the right deal. DJ already got us Wemby, and if the GOAT stays in SA his whole career, you can put DJ in the hall of fame just for helping us get Wemby for all I care lol.

[objective]

I never said he didn’t have input, but so do other people. Do you think if Pop and RC weren’t on board that he would have chosen any of his picks? I guarantee you Pop’s fingerprints are all over every pick.

Please, I've seen people guarantee that Pop did NOT have his fingerprints all over the draft, he wasn't a micromanager, and ever since RC became GM however many years ago that Pop spent his summers with wine and relaxation and gave input when asked.

BUT

He delegated the day to day for a reason. And coaches don't have time during a season to scout the draft, they depend on the front office, and Pop has the money the money and the title

Hell, I've seen Pop with his own mouth absolve himself of any responsibility for the Scola trade. I've also seen Pop blame unnamed underlings for not drafting Nocioni over confusion on his age and eligiblity, Pop wasn't responsible and was mad about it.

So once again and always, when Spurs fans want to deflect blame or responsibility, they'll twist themselves into knots

e.g.

"Pop isn't a bad coach, he doesn't choose the roster ... Wright may be GM but he doesn't do anything, it's all Pop ... It's not Pop making moves, it's RC .... It's not RC anymore because he's so old that he's winding things down that's why he promoted Wright .... It's not the front office it's ownership ... It's not ownership it's the front office ... "

If Wright is being hamstrung by trusting bad scouts beneath him, then he needs to hire better scouts. If he never wanted Primo but was overruled, then he needs to learn to advocate for his viewpoint harder and better.

But I doubt any of that is true. When Schlenck as GM was overruled on trading for Murray, he wasn't sticking around. He got out and made sure the media knew that wasn't him.

[scott]

Please, I've seen people guarantee that Pop did NOT have his fingerprints all over the draft, he wasn't a micromanager, and ever since RC became GM however many years ago that Pop spent his summers with wine and relaxation and gave input when asked.

BUT

He delegated the day to day for a reason. And coaches don't have time during a season to scout the draft, they depend on the front office, and Pop has the money the money and the title

Hell, I've seen Pop with his own mouth absolve himself of any responsibility for the Scola trade. I've also seen Pop blame unnamed underlings for not drafting Nocioni over confusion on his age and eligiblity, Pop wasn't responsible and was mad about it.

So once again and always, when Spurs fans want to deflect blame or responsibility, they'll twist themselves into knots

e.g.

"Pop isn't a bad coach, he doesn't choose the roster ... Wright may be GM but he doesn't do anything, it's all Pop ... It's not Pop making moves, it's RC .... It's not RC anymore because he's so old that he's winding things down that's why he promoted Wright .... It's not the front office it's ownership ... It's not ownership it's the front office ... "

If Wright is being hamstrung by trusting bad scouts beneath him, then he needs to hire better scouts. If he never wanted Primo but was overruled, then he needs to learn to advocate for his viewpoint harder and better.

But I doubt any of that is true. When Schlenck as GM was overruled on trading for Murray, he wasn't sticking around. He got out and made sure the media knew that wasn't him.

Pop and RC's level of involvement these days seems to depend on whatever is convenient for whatever argument ST posters want to make. The fact is, that their level of involvement is unclear from the outside looking it... which is probably how they like it.

[TD 21]

Wright is an unestablished minority in a role few who look like him get to. The notion that he'd give up his job that easily (especially now) due to lack of autonomy is asinine.

Let's face it, none of us know how much power he has. What we do know is he's not the highest ranking basketball executive.

Yet certain people are hellbent on blaming him. Wonder why.

[objective]

Wright is an unestablished minority in a role few who look like him get to. The notion that he'd give up his job that easily (especially now) due to lack of autonomy is asinine.

Let's face it, none of us know how much power he has. What we do know is he's not the highest ranking basketball executive.

Yet certain people are hellbent on blaming him. Wonder why.

I wonder why the guy who was promoted to General Manager and is the one who addresses the media on draft night and is the one in all the draft pick press conferences and talking to the media at summer league and is doing exactly what general managers do would be treated like a general manager

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Good thing is we know how DJ thinks ( as seen with Jack the Flipper in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VZykbSv7nk). Also he's been active on social media criticizing the Spurs before. Do I know how they feel? No. However, executives have been petty in the past and refused to deal with teams for many reasons (i.e. CP3 to LA). Trae is a better scorer and facilitator and a legit star. Did DJ lead his team to the WCF or to the first round? No. Trae is worth trading for in the right deal. DJ already got us Wemby, and if the GOAT stays in SA his whole career, you can put DJ in the hall of fame just for helping us get Wemby for all I care lol.

I have been reading and listening to DJ for awhile. All I can say is it is never too late for someone to get over themselves and stop reacting. He was asked about SA recently and had nice things to say.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Pop and RC's level of involvement these days seems to depend on whatever is convenient for whatever argument ST posters want to make. The fact is, that their level of involvement is unclear from the outside looking it... which is probably how they like it.

Nonsense. Their level of involvement is significant.

The stupidity is fixating on Wright so you can fixate on Primo --2 picks in five years DERP!-- while ignoring decades of relevant information.

[objective]

The one break I'll give Wright is Samanic who was supposed to be an RC favorite and it was right around the time of transition of title and duties so I'll give Wright the benefit of the doubt and mark it was Samanic for RC and Keldon being the start of the Wright era

[scott]

Nonsense. Their level of involvement is significant.

The stupidity is fixating on Wright so you can fixate on Primo --2 picks in five years DERP!-- while ignoring decades of relevant information.

Mere hypothesizing. Another worthless post from a worthless poster.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Mere hypothesizing. Another worthless post from a worthless poster.

Yes, the former GM and current head executive and the other former GM and current head coach with league leading skins on the wall have no significant input on team decisions.

I'm glad I have reduced you to a petulant whine.

[scott]

Yes, the former GM and current head executive and the other former GM and current head coach with league leading skins on the wall have no significant input on team decisions.

I'm glad I have reduced you to a petulant whine.

Previous poster provided plenty of reasons why their role is unclear. Your contra opinion is based on... "one guy used to have the job, and the other guy has a lofty title... and they've won be for... so they must be 'significantly' involved". As elementary as your logic is, I guess it's better than your other MO of simply making shit up.

You're in your fallback defense mechanism of calling anyone who calls out your bullshit "petulant" - it's become a pretty clear tell. Diversify your bag.

[TD 21]

I wonder why the guy who was promoted to General Manager and is the one who addresses the media on draft night and is the one in all the draft pick press conferences and talking to the media at summer league and is doing exactly what general managers do would be treated like a general manager

President of Basketball Operations is the top of the basketball executive pyramid (well technically; in reality certain meddlesome owners are). That title belongs to Pop. Whatever involvement Buford still has, if you think a relative neophyte like Wright is going to have more say than him, you've lost the plot.

This is not to absolve Wright, but to contextualize his role. The notion that he's unilaterally making decisions is absurd.

[Mnky]

The Nets beat the Hawks twice, scoring 124 and 114. Recheck your data. You are probably looking at the wrong column.

Also, Knicks game, neither Brunson nor Anunoby played. Randall is still out.

Cavs, no Mitchell, no Mobley, no Strus.

Memphis, still a train wreck, with all the injuries.

There’s nothing much to see there, to provide a basis for judgment.

Some people really have no clue what's going on in these games. They've faced nothing but beat up bench teams and the one team decently healthy beat them twice. And that team was the Nets.

That being said, I do think DJ would be a great fit next to wemby if his 3 ball is for real.

So would trae though.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Previous poster provided plenty of reasons why their role is unclear. Your contra opinion is based on... "one guy used to have the job, and the other guy has a lofty title... and they've won be for... so they must be 'significantly' involved". As elementary as your logic is, I guess it's better than your other MO of simply making shit up.

You're in your fallback defense mechanism of calling anyone who calls out your bullshit "petulant" - it's become a pretty clear tell. Diversify your bag.

Most of this post is you whining about me. All but two sentences. Petulant fits rather well on a consistent basis. I can see why you wouldn't like that but it remains the same nonetheless.

Frankly, I don't feel any need whatsoever to constantly reinvent what is plain as day.

Of course there is uncertainty given the Spurs obvious penchant for opaqueness. The typical argument from the mouthbreathers crew is that Wright is the GM and using that to bias from 5 years. There really is no other argument that surrounds the uncertainty.

Of course Popovich is still the President and Buford the CEO keeping that argument pretty damn stupid.

[JeffDuncan]

…, I do think DJ would be a great fit next to wemby if his 3 ball is for real.
…


DJM’s 3pt shooting is fully credible. He’s shooting .360 on moderate volume of 6.4 per game. It’s good enough that his defender needs to be aware of him at the arc, but no need to make it the major focus of a game plan.

The major threat a defense would face from a DJM & Wemby pairing would be the pick’n’roll. It appears to me. Well practiced, that could be like trying to stop an avalanche.

DJM can stop and pop. He has a nice midrange game. He can also do a good job of taking the ball on in for a layup. As best I recall, he showed some good ability to thread the needle with bounce passes to Poeltl on the p&r. For passes over the top, Poeltl wasn’t much of a lob threat but Wemby sure as heck is.

So, what I mean is, against p&r, the defense would have to deal with all four of those at the same time: DJM stops &pops, or DJM layup, or bounce pass to Wemby for dunk, or lob to Wemby for dunk. It’s a defensive nightmare. In theory. But there’s nothing impossible about any of it.

Certainly 3pt shooting ability is good. Gotta have it these days. But the p&r possibilities with Wemby intrigue me more.

Whether DJM or Trae is available depends on what Atlanta decides to do. Tank, or not? I have no way of knowing.

[TD 21]

Jeff Teague PREDICTS Trae Young & Victor Wembanyama will team up on Spurs | Club 520 (youtube.com) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXTf2Rut9Dc)

9:20

:stirpot:

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I'm going out on a limb and predict that the Laker's massively overpay for DJ once their picks the next to years are sorted and they can firesale all their draft assets. They would certainly do it for a James swan song, corpse or not.

Meanwhile the Spurs will either get the Hawks to give us a great deal for Young or no deal at all.

[RC_Drunkford]

DJM’s 3pt shooting is fully credible. He’s shooting .360 on moderate volume of 6.4 per game. It’s good enough that his defender needs to be aware of him at the arc, but no need to make it the major focus of a game plan.

The major threat a defense would face from a DJM & Wemby pairing would be the pick’n’roll. It appears to me. Well practiced, that could be like trying to stop an avalanche.

DJM can stop and pop. He has a nice midrange game. He can also do a good job of taking the ball on in for a layup. As best I recall, he showed some good ability to thread the needle with bounce passes to Poeltl on the p&r. For passes over the top, Poeltl wasn’t much of a lob threat but Wemby sure as heck is.

So, what I mean is, against p&r, the defense would have to deal with all four of those at the same time: DJM stops &pops, or DJM layup, or bounce pass to Wemby for dunk, or lob to Wemby for dunk. It’s a defensive nightmare. In theory. But there’s nothing impossible about any of it.

Certainly 3pt shooting ability is good. Gotta have it these days. But the p&r possibilities with Wemby intrigue me more.

Whether DJM or Trae is available depends on what Atlanta decides to do. Tank, or not? I have no way of knowing.

Inverted pick & rolls would be a nightmare for opponents tbh. DJ got a lot of length for a PG and the midrange is his bread and butter. If he screens for Wemby it'll be pick your poison. The Wemby/Tre Jones pick & roll is already at 1.35 points per posession. DHO's would also work quite well.

[TDMVPDPOY]

spurs dont have time for a chucking midget on the team who plays no lick of defense....

on your knees for this clown like they did for LMA will see wemby leave for greener pastures

[JeffDuncan]

Inverted pick & rolls would be a nightmare for opponents tbh. DJ got a lot of length for a PG and the midrange is his bread and butter. If he screens for Wemby it'll be pick your poison. The Wemby/Tre Jones pick & roll is already at 1.35 points per posession. DHO's would also work quite well.


Agreed. A little further on what you mention, we’ve seen what a good passer Wemby is. If Wemby was stopped he could pass to DJM in an inverted p&r, sure. Like you say, pick your poison.

To complete it, put a couple good shooters along the arc, one in the corner and one on the wing, so if the defense collapses to stop the p&r, either DJM or Wemby could kick out to an open shooter.

Sigh. I’m suddenly envisioning a Spurs team playing in the title series every year. And winning. We’ll see, but it isn’t totally out of the question.

[z0sa]

I've thought about it for a while, and I'm open to DJM returning. We still (should) get the best of that trade scenario if PATFO play relative hardball with ATL to provide them with their picks back.

DJM had some ugly parting shots from what I remember but that's ok. Winning cures all, and I'd be pretty confident we are a mid playoff team just by upgrading back to DJM.

[LeBowen]

Imo, Spurs shouldn't trade away a single first rounder for players older than 25/26 unless it's a legit superstar trade.
DJ will be 28 before the next season starts and he'll be out of his prime before Wemby enters his.
And he'd surely cost at two first rounders.
I said the same about Bridges, he'll also be 28.

Don't get me wrong, I think this team needs some veterans and I've got nothing against 30+ year olds as long as Spurs aren't using first rounders to get them.

DJ would be a good fit basketball wise, but I just don't Spurs to deal with his personality again. He's a teenager stuck in a grown man's body.

[buttsR4rebounding]

I'm going out on a limb and predict that the Laker's massively overpay for DJ once their picks the next to years are sorted and they can firesale all their draft assets. They would certainly do it for a James swan song, corpse or not.

Meanwhile the Spurs will either get the Hawks to give us a great deal for Young or no deal at all.

The great thing is the Spurs also win big if Hawks trade Young somewhere else.

[Mnky]

DJM’s 3pt shooting is fully credible. He’s shooting .360 on moderate volume of 6.4 per game. It’s good enough that his defender needs to be aware of him at the arc, but no need to make it the major focus of a game plan.

The major threat a defense would face from a DJM & Wemby pairing would be the pick’n’roll. It appears to me. Well practiced, that could be like trying to stop an avalanche.

DJM can stop and pop. He has a nice midrange game. He can also do a good job of taking the ball on in for a layup. As best I recall, he showed some good ability to thread the needle with bounce passes to Poeltl on the p&r. For passes over the top, Poeltl wasn’t much of a lob threat but Wemby sure as heck is.

So, what I mean is, against p&r, the defense would have to deal with all four of those at the same time: DJM stops &pops, or DJM layup, or bounce pass to Wemby for dunk, or lob to Wemby for dunk. It’s a defensive nightmare. In theory. But there’s nothing impossible about any of it.

Certainly 3pt shooting ability is good. Gotta have it these days. But the p&r possibilities with Wemby intrigue me more.

Whether DJM or Trae is available depends on what Atlanta decides to do. Tank, or not? I have no way of knowing.

Yea I'm a big fan of DJ. Always thought he was the prototypical PG when he was drafted. Thought him and Kawhi would wreck teams for years.

He's developed great from when he came in. Hard worker, competitor, just feel like he needed a little bit of freedom to realize how good he had it in SA. Think the way he talks about SA now says he grew up quite a bit being away.

His midrange was solid here and he could attack well enough. His 3 pt became a real thing his last year or two with SA. Good to see its still going strong. He would have great looks with Wemby too. Can only imagine his shooting would benefit from Wembys presence and we all know he's a plus defender with great size at the PG.

Wouldn't mind him but at a discount for what we sent him away for.

[buttsR4rebounding]

Ideally, IMO, you trade for DJM and draft your PG of the future. The draft pick spends the whole year in Austin. Develops at SA’s preferred pace and is ready to move DJM to a back up role by the time his contract is up.

[objective]

Not thrilled at the idea of Dejounte because he's a poor lob passer

But more than that

Don't forget his playoff shenanigans. He went and got himself suspended for game 5 by abusing a ref. Luckily for the Hawks it was Trae Young who stepped up with a huge game 5 and the win on the road

Dejounte brings the hot headedness not just to gram or the tweets or the snaps but in the games as well.

[tbdog]

^ the rumour was the the spurs were happy they moved on from his possie

[spurraider21]

murray doesnt do much at all in the lob game, this is true. he still had moderate pick and roll success with poeltl though

[scott]

While I like DJM (and was big proponent of that move prior to the Trae rumors/speculation surfacing), I have a hard time seeing the Spurs wanting to go down that route, and I have a hard time with how DJM & Dev would work together behind Wemby and potentially another priority name being added to the mix, either by trade or draft eventually. Both DJM and Devin have alpha-mentalities, whether or not they've actually earned them, which may end up being slightly problematic as they get pushed down the pecking order. The more I think of it, the more I just don't think the Spurs would want to go back down the DJM rabbit hole.

[JPB]

Jeff Teague PREDICTS Trae Young & Victor Wembanyama will team up on Spurs | Club 520 (youtube.com) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXTf2Rut9Dc)

9:20

:stirpot:

1.You have the opportunity to play with what could end up as the greatest player in history during your prime who complements you well...

2. You join a franchise with a lot of flexibiblity who could build a contender for years around you and Wemby...

3. You join a player who's already the attraction of the league and will become the face of the NBA, which is also good for your own exposition and brand.

4. the alternative is spending the rest of your prime on the treadmill in Atlanta with no perspective of winning a chip, less exposition and accolades (and money).

What do you wanna do if your Trae? You only have one career and that could be a golden opportunity for him. That could change his career and life.

[baseline bum]

I've thought about it for a while, and I'm open to DJM returning. We still (should) get the best of that trade scenario if PATFO play relative hardball with ATL to provide them with their picks back.

DJM had some ugly parting shots from what I remember but that's ok. Winning cures all, and I'd be pretty confident we are a mid playoff team just by upgrading back to DJM.

Atlanta ain't getting their picks back for Dejounte. Better be talking Trae if they want those three back. Otherwise my best offer might be something like the ATL 27, CHI 25, CHA 25 fake pick, and Zollins for Dejounte. Or maybe replace the ATL 27 with the Spurs 24 if it falls to 6 or 7.

[scott]

Atlanta ain't getting their picks back for Dejounte. Better be talking Trae if they want those three back. Otherwise my best offer might be something like the ATL 27, CHI 25, CHA 25 fake pick, and Zollins for Dejounte. Or maybe replace the ATL 27 with the Spurs 24 if it falls to 6 or 7.

I like this, though I would want to hold that Spurs 24. Even if it is 6 or 7, I still want to add one more young prospect to our team, even if they only project to be a bench player (we need those too).

I don't think ATL can pull the trigger on this without getting completely slaughtered (though DET did effectively trade Dennis Rodman for Bill Curly once, so anything is possible) by their fans or media. Love it from our POV though.

[TrainOfThought5]

spurs dont have time for a chucking midget on the team who plays no lick of defense....

on your knees for this clown like they did for LMA will see wemby leave for greener pastures

and if we do Rob Dillingham will be much cheaper

[CGD]

I’ll admit I got excited about the idea of Trae here at first. Then the hangover subsided and I’m back to not liking this fit at all. If they’re gonna accelerate the time line (I don’t think they should next year), where is it written that it has to be for Trae? Shop around first.

Each “story” that breathes more life to this narrative is getting annoying.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I've thought about it for a while, and I'm open to DJM returning. We still (should) get the best of that trade scenario if PATFO play relative hardball with ATL to provide them with their picks back.

DJM had some ugly parting shots from what I remember but that's ok. Winning cures all, and I'd be pretty confident we are a mid playoff team just by upgrading back to DJM.

He kept running his mouth last year. Then this year he has changed his tone.

Either one could be his real disposition. One thing is clear: he had not gotten over himself last year. If he had said he didn't like the mindgames because he did not need the motivation that would be one thing. He was talking about having to play behind Parker and Mills his rookie year and that was the issue to him. that is just self centered and not understanding the why. That type of thing is a cliche motivation technique.

he is nowhere near a Ricky Davis 'I'm just going to get my own' type in reaction. he could work with Wemby assuming he feels subordinate to Vic like Jackson was to Duncan. otherwise he would need to change his personality.

from a talent standpoint and fit it is a no brainer. I am similarly ambivalent.

[Atl Spur]

We traded on him high for a reason….we don’t need the headache he brings

[Mnky]

After watching how horrible the spurs are without someone who can create offense the last couple games, people might start to realize the impact Trae would bring. First, he would make Wemby BETTER. He would make Wembys life easier. He would teach wemby the game. Some people really call trae low iq. Arguably at the top of the league when it comes tl the game. Trae is not athletic or surrounded by a system and can still average 30 & 10. He's not even in his prime yet.

Every PG you want to bring in would be a liability on defense. It's the nature of the game of tall people.

Trae makes a lot of sense, he's the perfect compliment to Wemby. A game conductor with a good 3.

His price tag is super high. I don't like that of course. But you'll still have draft picks after the trade to fill backup spots and a Wemby, Trae, Vassell lineup will attract other players. That's solid if vassell ends up the 3rd or 4th best option. He's creating way too many bad habits on a team who doesn't know how to play.

Trae makes Wemby and Vassell both better. It would let them both focus more/have energy on defense when they don't have to carry so much offense as well. Lots of positives.

DJM isn't in the same tier as Trae, but I wouldn't mind him with the right trade.

[exstatic]

After watching how horrible the spurs are without someone who can create offense the last couple games, people might start to realize the impact Trae would bring. First, he would make Wemby BETTER. He would make Wembys life easier. He would teach wemby the game. Some people really call trae low iq. Arguably at the top of the league when it comes tl the game. Trae is not athletic or surrounded by a system and can still average 30 & 10. He's not even in his prime yet.

Every PG you want to bring in would be a liability on defense. It's the nature of the game of tall people.

Trae makes a lot of sense, he's the perfect compliment to Wemby. A game conductor with a good 3.

His price tag is super high. I don't like that of course. But you'll still have draft picks after the trade to fill backup spots and a Wemby, Trae, Vassell lineup will attract other players. That's solid if vassell ends up the 3rd or 4th best option. He's creating way too many bad habits on a team who doesn't know how to play.

Trae makes Wemby and Vassell both better. It would let them both focus more/have energy on defense when they don't have to carry so much offense as well. Lots of positives.

DJM isn't in the same tier as Trae, but I wouldn't mind him with the right trade.
Didn’t you hear? Trae unfollowed Wemby on IG. The thrill is gone.

[Mnky]

Didn’t you hear? Trae unfollowed Wemby on IG. The thrill is gone.

Dillingham it is.

[Frenchfred]

Didn’t you hear? Trae unfollowed Wemby on IG. The thrill is gone.

really? Pretty immature if that’s the case.

[Spurs Homer]

I cannot believe you guys are mentioning Dejounte and Trae in the same breath

DJM is only marginally better than the trae we already have - and is as horrible as vassell at passing/lobs

Trae Young is a master at controlling the offense and the nightmare of a pick-your-poison trae 3 or a wemby dunk is why you get a trae young

DJM?

Shit id take my chances with the draft instead of a guy who already had a bad bad foot injury and as he ages - will be a strong candidate for another foot injury.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

I cannot believe you guys are mentioning Dejounte and Trae in the same breath

DJM is only marginally better than the trae we already have - and is as horrible as vassell at passing/lobs

Trae Young is a master at controlling the offense and the nightmare of a pick-your-poison trae 3 or a wemby dunk is why you get a trae young

DJM?

Shit id take my chances with the draft instead of a guy who already had a bad bad foot injury and as he ages - will be a strong candidate for another foot injury.

Good take :tu

I 100% agree. Watching Harden run the PnR with Vecevic on the Clips makes me only dream about what Trae could do with Wemby. Both Harden and Trae are masterful with the pick and roll and tossing lobs to the big man.

That Trae / Wemby combo would be lethal. I think the Spurs will need to make an investment in someone like Trae to let Wemby know the organization is serious about winning and isn’t going to let him burn the first four years of his career on a slow rebuild that might or might not produce a contender. I can’t imagine the Spurs will cultivate a home grown talent who can provide what Young is capable of.

And DJM is certainly not in the same class. I think the Hawks lack of improvement since acquiring him demonstrates that.

[scott]

Good take :tu

I 100% agree. Watching Harden run the PnR with Vecevic on the Clips makes me only dream about what Trae could do with Wemby. Both Harden and Trae are masterful with the pick and roll and tossing lobs to the big man.

That Trae / Wemby combo would be lethal. I think the Spurs will need to make an investment in someone like Trae to let Wemby know the organization is serious about winning and isn’t going to let him burn the first four years of his career on a slow rebuild that might or might not produce a contender. I can’t imagine the Spurs will cultivate a home grown talent who can provide what Young is capable of.

And DJM is certainly not in the same class. I think the Hawks lack of improvement since acquiring him demonstrates that.

Thinking a little deeper, if the Spurs did acquire Trae, but managed to leave all of their picks from this year in tact and not dip into their own natural picks, they'll still have a healthy pipeline of youth coming. We'd still need to make a couple of ancillary moves to shore up SF and the bench... I'm just not sure what those would be. I really liked the idea of Hayward as a 1-2 year stopgap, and he was doing well in CHA, but since being traded to OKC he's kind of just gone into a black hole. I wonder if the injury he suffered this season took a bit toll on him, or if he is just struggling to find a spot in the rotation in OKC.

[LeBowen]

Thinking a little deeper, if the Spurs did acquire Trae, but managed to leave all of their picks from this year in tact and not dip into their own natural picks, they'll still have a healthy pipeline of youth coming. We'd still need to make a couple of ancillary moves to shore up SF and the bench... I'm just not sure what those would be. I really liked the idea of Hayward as a 1-2 year stopgap, and he was doing well in CHA, but since being traded to OKC he's kind of just gone into a black hole. I wonder if the injury he suffered this season took a bit toll on him, or if he is just struggling to find a spot in the rotation in OKC.

Trading for Trae would basically be trading DJ+Keldon for Trae. Maybe Chicago pick, but that's it.

If we do get him, the path to success is obvious. Get as many 3-D wings as possible.

Naz Reid being the first priority.

If we assume that Wemby, Devin, Jeremy and Tre are guaranteed to be in the rotation next season, we need just 6 more regular rotation players.
Barlow/Bassey would suffice as Wemby's backups for the next season because Naz can also play C against backups if needed.
Then obviously Trae, leaving us with 4 more players.

4 perimeter SG-SF players, more or less.
One more legit player, ideally Herb Jones if he's available due to NOLA having a logjam at SF.
One of those probably being our top5 2024 pick.

Then have Julian, Sidy, Malaki, Toronto pick (if we get it) fight it out for the final spot.
Sign a vet if needed.

I think this path is a no-brainer if we get Trae.
If we don't, I got no clue what's going to happen.

[RC_Drunkford]

it comes down to style of play tbh.

If you get Dejounte you have a size advantage. You can play passing lanes and get a lot more deflections and steals, he'd also help with the rebounding. On offense you run what we run now, inverted pick & rolls and DHO's. The offense would have to run mainly through Wemby though, cause DJ is not the type to get into the lane and kick the ball out. He'll get to his midrange and play off of Wemby most of the time and he's also a good catch and shoot player. You won't get a lot of alley oops for Wemby or open looks for Vassell though. Asset wise you'll have more draft picks and cap space while singing a 27-year old which gives you a 5-year window with him.

If you get Trae the offense would be a whole nother animal. You'll automatically give Wemby more space to operate cause you have a guy who can pull up from the logo and bend the defense. He's also an incredible lob passer, who'd give Wemby a lot of easy dunks. He can get in the lane and create a lot of catch and shoot opportunities and would make it significantly harder for teams to double team Wemby, which is what most teams are starting to do now. Remember Trae Young is a walking top 8 offense. We'd also create a lot more free throw attempts. One of Wemby or Trae would always be on the floor, meaning we'd have a top offense for 48 minutes. Only down side might be that he needs the ball in his hands and doesn't do much off the ball.

Defensively you'd have to hide him, although that seems quite possible with Wemby guarding the paint. He's also 11th in steals and one of the best at drawing charges. You can not play any bad defenders alongside him, so you need a whole lot of 3-and-D. Asset wise you'd have to spend more, but would still have plenty of picks left. He costs more, but is only 25 which means you can have him around long term. You're basically creating maybe the best 1-2 punch in the NBA.


Naz Reid and Herb Jones are at the top of my list as well. We basically just need our picks and about 3 players to take this team to the playoffs.

[Dejounte]

it comes down to style of play tbh.

If you get Dejounte you have a size advantage. You can play passing lanes and get a lot more deflections and steals, he'd also help with the rebounding. On offense you run what we run now, inverted pick & rolls and DHO's. The offense would have to run mainly through Wemby though, cause DJ is not the type to get into the lane and kick the ball out. He'll get to his midrange and play off of Wemby most of the time and he's also a good catch and shoot player. You won't get a lot of alley oops for Wemby or open looks for Vassell though. Asset wise you'll have more draft picks and cap space while singing a 27-year old which gives you a 5-year window with him.

If you get Trae the offense would be a whole nother animal. You'll automatically give Wemby more space to operate cause you have a guy who can pull up from the logo and bend the defense. He's also an incredible lob passer, who'd give Wemby a lot of easy dunks. He can get in the lane and create a lot of catch and shoot opportunities and would make it significantly harder for teams to double team Wemby, which is what most teams are starting to do now. Remember Trae Young is a walking top 8 offense. We'd also create a lot more free throw attempts. One of Wemby or Trae would always be on the floor, meaning we'd have a top offense for 48 minutes. Only down side might be that he needs the ball in his hands and doesn't do much off the ball.

Defensively you'd have to hide him, although that seems quite possible with Wemby guarding the paint. He's also 11th in steals and one of the best at drawing charges. You can not play any bad defenders alongside him, so you need a whole lot of 3-and-D. Asset wise you'd have to spend more, but would still have plenty of picks left. He costs more, but is only 25 which means you can have him around long term. You're basically creating maybe the best 1-2 punch in the NBA.


Naz Reid and Herb Jones are at the top of my list as well. We basically just need our picks and about 3 players to take this team to the playoffs.

How is it possible to hide Trae with Wemby guarding the paint when we’re having trouble hiding all our bad defenders right now with Wemby guarding the paint? I don’t see Malaki or Keldon getting hidden one bit. Bad defenders get exposed badly.

[RC_Drunkford]

How is it possible to hide Trae with Wemby guarding the paint when we’re having trouble hiding all our bad defenders right now with Wemby guarding the paint? I don’t see Malaki or Keldon getting hidden one bit. Bad defenders get exposed badly.

last time I checked we were a top 5 or top 8 defense with Wemby on the floor. Our defense is just the worst in the NBA by almost 3 points when he goes to the bench.

[RC_Drunkford]

The main thing to fix the defense is a legit rim protecting back up center. No more Zach Collins. That's the main defensive issue of this team. You would replace Tre Jones with Trae Young and then it's replacing Champagnie with a great defender like a Herb Jones. If you swap out Tre Jones and Champagnie with Tre Young and Herb Jones I highly doubt the defense gets worse.

Teams can always get away with one bad defender on the floor. You just can't hide more than that. It's pretty logical that we are getting abused defensively when Zach Collins, Keldon Johnson and Malaki Branham play all at the same time.

[spurraider21]

re Murray vs Young its also a big salary difference. next year murray will be on year 1 of a 4/114 extension (+ trade kicker), while Trae will be in year 3 of 5 on a contract paying him over 40/year (+ trade kicker), and he has an ETO meaning you may only have him at that rate for 2 seasons

[scott]

re Murray vs Young its also a big salary difference. next year murray will be on year 1 of a 4/114 extension (+ trade kicker), while Trae will be in year 3 of 5 on a contract paying him over 40/year (+ trade kicker), and he has an ETO meaning you may only have him at that rate for 2 seasons

Just one note on trade kickers - they aren't something we have to worry about. The Trade Kicker gets paid by the team trading the player away. http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q99

[spurraider21]

Just one note on trade kickers - they aren't something we have to worry about. The Trade Kicker gets paid by the team trading the player away. http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q99
ah, ya learn something new #hivemind

[objective]

Just one note on trade kickers - they aren't something we have to worry about. The Trade Kicker gets paid by the team trading the player away. http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q99

The real world dollars are paid by the trading team, but the increased cap figure for caproom and tax calculations is felt by the receiving team.

[scott]

The real world dollars are paid by the trading team, but the increased cap figure for caproom and tax calculations is felt by the receiving team.

Good catch, but there is also that I believe Trae's contract is already at his maximum based on year's of service, and a trade bonus cannot cause a player's salary to exceed the max. I don't know enough about the CBA to say definitively, but it would appear that Trae's trade kicker is moot?

[objective]

Also re: defense

Tre Jones is not regarded as a bad defender because the all around defense gives plenty of attack avenues in a regular season scenario where teams mostly concentrate on what they do themselves ...

But the few times teams have decided to hunt Tre they wrecked his ass as far as I can remember. So I don't think it would be that significant a drop off from Tre to Trae in playoffs defense

[objective]

Good catch, but there is also that I believe Trae's contract is already at his maximum based on year's of service, and a trade bonus cannot cause a player's salary to exceed the max. I don't know enough about the CBA to say definitively, but it would appear that Trae's trade kicker is moot?

Correct, it wouldn't matter what Trae but it would with Dejounte. Usually the lower salary is a big pro on the Dejounte side, but unless he waives the trade kicker, it's less savings than people might imagine over Young

[rankingtear]

it comes down to style of play tbh.

If you get Dejounte you have a size advantage. You can play passing lanes and get a lot more deflections and steals, he'd also help with the rebounding. On offense you run what we run now, inverted pick & rolls and DHO's. The offense would have to run mainly through Wemby though, cause DJ is not the type to get into the lane and kick the ball out. He'll get to his midrange and play off of Wemby most of the time and he's also a good catch and shoot player. You won't get a lot of alley oops for Wemby or open looks for Vassell though. Asset wise you'll have more draft picks and cap space while singing a 27-year old which gives you a 5-year window with him.

If you get Trae the offense would be a whole nother animal. You'll automatically give Wemby more space to operate cause you have a guy who can pull up from the logo and bend the defense. He's also an incredible lob passer, who'd give Wemby a lot of easy dunks. He can get in the lane and create a lot of catch and shoot opportunities and would make it significantly harder for teams to double team Wemby, which is what most teams are starting to do now. Remember Trae Young is a walking top 8 offense. We'd also create a lot more free throw attempts. One of Wemby or Trae would always be on the floor, meaning we'd have a top offense for 48 minutes. Only down side might be that he needs the ball in his hands and doesn't do much off the ball.

Defensively you'd have to hide him, although that seems quite possible with Wemby guarding the paint. He's also 11th in steals and one of the best at drawing charges. You can not play any bad defenders alongside him, so you need a whole lot of 3-and-D. Asset wise you'd have to spend more, but would still have plenty of picks left. He costs more, but is only 25 which means you can have him around long term. You're basically creating maybe the best 1-2 punch in the NBA.


Naz Reid and Herb Jones are at the top of my list as well. We basically just need our picks and about 3 players to take this team to the playoffs.

Your building around Trae Young basically.

[exstatic]

Your building around Trae Young basically.

Wrong guy to build around. There’s this 7’4” kid I hear is pretty good.

[rankingtear]

Also re: defense

Tre Jones is not regarded as a bad defender because the all around defense gives plenty of attack avenues in a regular season scenario where teams mostly concentrate on what they do themselves ...

But the few times teams have decided to hunt Tre they wrecked his ass as far as I can remember. So I don't think it would be that significant a drop off from Tre to Trae in playoffs defense

Trae is never on the POA. There is a difference on being wrecked and unplayable. Trae is unplayable on ball. He is 165 lbs the weakest player in the league. Tre has 20lbs on him.

[MaNu4Tres]

From what I hear, Spurs won’t touch Trae for his cost.

Expect them to try to bring in 1 or two floor raising/complimentary vets without compromising their highly valued draft capital.

FWIW Fischer also mentioned how other NBA officials thought the Spurs would target CP3 and Van Vleet this past summer. Spurs didn’t even flinch.

[Russo21]

Seems we're hearing too much about this for it to happen. Like some say, once you've heard about a deal, it's already happened or it's already dead. That being said, I'd love him on the team.

[tbdog]

From what I hear, Spurs won’t touch Trae for his cost.

Expect them to try to bring in 1 or two floor raising/complimentary vets without compromising their highly valued draft capital.

FWIW Fischer also mentioned how other NBA officials thought the Spurs would target CP3 and Van Vleet this past summer. Spurs didn’t even flinch.

I think their is plan A and their max cost, and that's trading for Young. Both teams had no need to do the trade last deadline.

[lefty]

Good take :tu

I 100% agree. Watching Harden run the PnR with Vecevic on the Clips makes me only dream about what Trae could do with Wemby. Both Harden and Trae are masterful with the pick and roll and tossing lobs to the big man.

That Trae / Wemby combo would be lethal. I think the Spurs will need to make an investment in someone like Trae to let Wemby know the organization is serious about winning and isn’t going to let him burn the first four years of his career on a slow rebuild that might or might not produce a contender. I can’t imagine the Spurs will cultivate a home grown talent who can provide what Young is capable of.

And DJM is certainly not in the same class. I think the Hawks lack of improvement since acquiring him demonstrates that.

Vecevic?

[Pauleta14]

Vecevic?

Zubac I guess

All those ex Yougo looks the same to him :lol

[TD 21]

:lmao At this proposal . . .

A 3-Team Trade to Give Wemby a Star PG and Big-Market Franchise Real Hope | News, Scores, Highlights, Stats, and Rumors | Bleacher Report (https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10113938-a-3-team-trade-to-give-wemby-a-star-pg-and-big-market-franchise-real-hope)

[CGD]

^ I don't want Trae at all, but this is in the (high-end) ballpark of what it could take to get him.

- It's basically giving ATL all their picks back + a SAS 24 pick in a shitty draft.
- The Spurs (marginally) upgrade the CHA pick with a SAC pick
- They send out Sidy.

Basically its Atlanta opening bid.

[spurraider21]

so all the murray picks

CHA (which to be fair, is less valuable today than it was in 2022 when we traded murray)
ATLx2
relinquish swap

and Tre Jones
and Cissoko (dont really care tbh)

in addition to

swapping our 2024 pick with the kings 2024 pick (big downgrade)

for Trae Young and Jevon Carter

its more than id give. from the draft capital, tbh its somewhat what i'd expect, though i wouldnt trade our 2024 pick in addition to a full undo of murray trade. we could talk about bulls pick... but that seems rich

and then an expiring Tre Jones has some good value too. its too rich for me, but not thaaat far off

[baseline bum]

:lmao At this proposal . . .

A 3-Team Trade to Give Wemby a Star PG and Big-Market Franchise Real Hope | News, Scores, Highlights, Stats, and Rumors | Bleacher Report (https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10113938-a-3-team-trade-to-give-wemby-a-star-pg-and-big-market-franchise-real-hope)

I'm not bidding against myself by offering the 24 pick to Atlanta. They can get their own picks back, the Chicago pick, rip up the swap, and matching salary and that's as far as I'm going. They won't find a deal anywhere close to that for Trae elsewhere and if they somehow do trade him to the Lakers for spite that's good too, since it makes their 25 and 26 picks bad enough to be in the running for Cooper Flagg, Ace Bailey, AJ Dybantsa, or Cam Boozer.

[CGD]

^ exactly, I’d feel zero pressure to engage ATL at all. Let THEM negotiate against themselves. Honestly right now: ATL picks > Young

Happy to talk about all others outside SAS’s own 2025, 2026 picks, but on Spurs terms.

[scott]

:lmao At this proposal . . .

A 3-Team Trade to Give Wemby a Star PG and Big-Market Franchise Real Hope | News, Scores, Highlights, Stats, and Rumors | Bleacher Report (https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10113938-a-3-team-trade-to-give-wemby-a-star-pg-and-big-market-franchise-real-hope)

I mean... I'm probably doing that deal, tbh.

[TD 21]

I'd do the Craptors 1st instead of the natural one, both because I don't trust those shady pricks to not go to extreme lengths to attempt to screw the Spurs and realistically the Hawks need something more than the Murray trade in reverse.

Good luck to the Hawks doing better than this and don't sleep on Jones as an asset as a solid third guard who'd fit well with their incumbent guards and double as more cap relief considering he's an expiring.

The Spurs should be incentivized to include him in this hypothetical anyway since he can't credibly play with Young and has outgrown strictly backing up a star, so it wouldn't make sense for him or them to invest in each other beyond next season anyway.

I don't mind the Bulls tie in either, since Carter would be a nice fit as a backup to Young and alongside Branham as a 3 and D type. He's also not good enough to gripe if Wesley makes a leap and usurps him in the rotation.


I mean... I'm probably doing that deal, tbh.

I don't care how bad the top of this draft projects, the Spurs didn't just sit through another miserable season, aided by some dubious early season rotational decisions, only to likely end up with a single mid round 1st for their troubles.

As I explained above, they don't need to bid against themselves either.

[SOMA Spur]

I do this deal in a heart beat, but why the fuck would Atlanta? They're giving up their Franchise player AND their best +defender for Tre Jones and picks/potential flexibility? what? kind of misses the point, this would be a rebuild move, but thats not what the Hawks are doing. They didn't bring Quinn in to tank and their owner's not bottoming out. Just look at that Clips/Hawks game the other day. Hawks went into LA and beat the shit out of the Clips with both Kawaii/George scoring 26+. Sure they got their asses handed to them in subsequent games, but that game is the blue print for a sans Tre ATL team going forward. With the right roster tweaks, they could end up being good. So they actually might be open to trading Trae, but it'll be for a borderline Allstar in return + picks. If I'm Atl I'm asking for Devin plus all their picks back. The Spurs'll say fuck off, but thats the beginning of the negotiations. Any scenario where it ends up looking like this proposed trade (3 1/2 firsts, a swap, plus Tre Jones) thats an easy yes for me. Especially if Toronto conveys and we'll be adding a top 7 player anyways.

[mo7888]

I do this deal in a heart beat, but why the fuck would Atlanta? They're giving up their Franchise player AND their best +defender for Tre Jones and picks/potential flexibility? what? kind of misses the point, this would be a rebuild move, but thats not what the Hawks are doing. They didn't bring Quinn in to tank and their owner's not bottoming out. Just look at that Clips/Hawks game the other day. Hawks went into LA and beat the shit out of the Clips with both Kawaii/George scoring 26+. Sure they got their asses handed to them in subsequent games, but that game is the blue print for a sans Tre ATL team going forward. With the right roster tweaks, they could end up being good. So they actually might be open to trading Trae, but it'll be for a borderline Allstar in return + picks. If I'm Atl I'm asking for Devin plus all their picks back. The Spurs'll say fuck off, but thats the beginning of the negotiations. Any scenario where it ends up looking like this proposed trade (3 1/2 firsts, a swap, plus Tre Jones) thats an easy yes for me. Especially if Toronto conveys and we'll be adding a top 7 player anyways.

I have no idea what Atlanta will wnd up doing, but I'm confident that they won't find any deal on the market comparable to this one. Nobody will offer that much for TY..

[TD 21]

It wouldn't necessarily be a re-build type trade for the Hawks.

Analytically, Jones grades out as a fringe starter and as I alluded to, he'd fit well with this version of Murray and Bogdanovic, too.

That might be enough to keep them in play-in range (only with less upside) and if that's not enough, they can always take some of the draft capital and re-route it for more immediate help if they prefer.

[baseline bum]

I mean... I'm probably doing that deal, tbh.

Why? No reason to throw the first in. I could see moving Tre if the Toronto pick conveys and they take someone like Sheppard but if not he's an awesome backup point who won't break the bank to re-sign. No team other than the Spurs can give Atlanta their 2025, 26, & 27 drafts back with 25 and 26 considered very strong classes. Without Trae that's a tank level team so why would they move they move him anywhere else?

[baseline bum]

I do this deal in a heart beat, but why the fuck would Atlanta? They're giving up their Franchise player AND their best +defender for Tre Jones and picks/potential flexibility? what? kind of misses the point, this would be a rebuild move, but thats not what the Hawks are doing. They didn't bring Quinn in to tank and their owner's not bottoming out. Just look at that Clips/Hawks game the other day. Hawks went into LA and beat the shit out of the Clips with both Kawaii/George scoring 26+. Sure they got their asses handed to them in subsequent games, but that game is the blue print for a sans Tre ATL team going forward. With the right roster tweaks, they could end up being good. So they actually might be open to trading Trae, but it'll be for a borderline Allstar in return + picks. If I'm Atl I'm asking for Devin plus all their picks back. The Spurs'll say fuck off, but thats the beginning of the negotiations. Any scenario where it ends up looking like this proposed trade (3 1/2 firsts, a swap, plus Tre Jones) thats an easy yes for me. Especially if Toronto conveys and we'll be adding a top 7 player anyways.

Meh they're a borderline lottery team that's capped out and doesn't have assets to improve with a star who is probably going to ask out within a couple of years and the 25 and 26 drafts both look strong. Certainly at least 25 given how strong a prospect Cooper Flagg looks to be. Jalen Johnson's not going to ever become good enough to lead them to contention and Trae is likely as good as he'll ever be. I think it's lunacy to not blow it up.

[SOMA Spur]

It wouldn't necessarily be a re-build type trade for the Hawks.

Analytically, Jones grades out as a fringe starter and as I alluded to, he'd fit well with this version of Murray and Bogdanovic, too.

That might be enough to keep them in play-in range (only with less upside) and if that's not enough, they can always take some of the draft capital and re-route it for more immediate help if they prefer.

They really like Bufkin and are looking for more minutes for him next season. Absolutely no need for Tre Jones. (plus selfishly I'd like to keep Tre as OUR backup pg. It'd suit him better as backup, plus have some continuity for the team, as we overhaul 80% of this roster over the next 3 years.)

[lefty]

Zubac I guess

All those ex Yougo looks the same to him :lol

he’s racist tbh

[TD 21]

They really like Bufkin and are looking for more minutes for him next season. Absolutely no need for Tre Jones. (plus selfishly I'd like to keep Tre as OUR backup pg. It'd suit him better as backup, plus have some continuity for the team, as we overhaul 80% of this roster over the next 3 years.)

I know they do, but he's a combo guard (albeit with a suspect shot) and would still get minutes as the fourth guard.

[Dejounte]

TD 21 (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=17781)

”I don't care how bad the top of this draft projects, the Spurs didn't just sit through another miserable season, aided by some dubious early season rotational decisions, only to likely end up with a single mid round 1st for their troubles.”

But that’s not what they end up with… they end up with Trae for their troubles since the only way they get Trae is for that pick (theoretical).

[TD 21]

I mean directly out of the draft though.

Out of the obvious prospective suitors, none have assets as valuable to offer as the Hawks own picks back, so why should the Spurs add to that with a probably top 3-4 pick too? What's wrong with adding the Craptors 1st + Jones?

In the unlikely event someone tops that, the Spurs could reassess at that point.

[scott]

I'd do the Craptors 1st instead of the natural one, both because I don't trust those shady pricks to not go to extreme lengths to attempt to screw the Spurs and realistically the Hawks need something more than the Murray trade in reverse.

Good luck to the Hawks doing better than this and don't sleep on Jones as an asset as a solid third guard who'd fit well with their incumbent guards and double as more cap relief considering he's an expiring.

The Spurs should be incentivized to include him in this hypothetical anyway since he can't credibly play with Young and has outgrown strictly backing up a star, so it wouldn't make sense for him or them to invest in each other beyond next season anyway.

I don't mind the Bulls tie in either, since Carter would be a nice fit as a backup to Young and alongside Branham as a 3 and D type. He's also not good enough to gripe if Wesley makes a leap and usurps him in the rotation.



I don't care how bad the top of this draft projects, the Spurs didn't just sit through another miserable season, aided by some dubious early season rotational decisions, only to likely end up with a single mid round 1st for their troubles.

As I explained above, they don't need to bid against themselves either.

By the time this trade would be completed, we’d know if the Raptors pick is conveying or not - if it is, that opens up this trade and alleviates your concerns of only having a mid/late FRP from SAC. Say we land the #5 pick and we get the TOR #7 pick. I don’t care enough about the difference between those picks to haggle over the SA pick versus the TOR pick.

Forget the concept against bidding against themselves for now. No one has bid anything, and we aren’t at the negotiating table, so we need not concern ourselves with negotiating against ourselves since this is all meaningless chatter. Just evaluate that deal in itself, not in relation to what you think the Spurs should try to do. Only ask yourself, if that is ATL’s final offer - do you do it?

I would do it, because I think that overall package is fair value. I also (my own personal opinion) think Trae will cost more than what people would like to hope. ATL is not currently in a situation where they must trade Trae, so their next best alternative is not what other teams could possible offer - its simply keeping him and adding two FRPs to their team and whatever other deals they can make to try and make their team better.

Now, if Trae asks for a trade, either in public or behind the scenes, then the calculus all changes and the Spurs gain maximum leverage. Until then, the Hawks likely do not view themselves as in debt of high picks… they probably view their immediate future as a slight improvement (because all teams think they will get better) over the play-in team they are now, and they likely aren’t overly concerned with the late-teens picks they owe the Spurs in 2025 and 2027 and the possibility they might downgrade their pick in 2026 (which they again, probably view as maybe dropping from the late teens to the early 20s at worst).

Are the Hawks being realistic in viewing it this way? Maybe… maybe not. But they aren’t exactly a basement dweller who feels they need to blow it up. They are a solid play-in team (even with Trae injured) who have two FRPs this year, some decent support pieces, and they probably think they can get better. We don’t have them over a barrel like SpursTalk.com likes to think we do.

[scott]

Meh they're a borderline lottery team that's capped out and doesn't have assets to improve with a star who is probably going to ask out within a couple of years and the 25 and 26 drafts both look strong. Certainly at least 25 given how strong a prospect Cooper Flagg looks to be. Jalen Johnson's not going to ever become good enough to lead them to contention and Trae is likely as good as he'll ever be. I think it's lunacy to not blow it up.

It’s all just opinions and assholes, but I disagree with this assessment of ATL and I imagine their FO does to. You see borderline lotto team… I see solid play-in team. You say they don’t have assets to improve, but they have two FRPs this year and I think DJM, Bogdanovic, Johnson, Hunter, Bey and Okogwu (all players who would be at a minimum the third best player on our team) are solid trade pieces if they want to reconfigure the chairs on the deck. They also have two more tradeable FRPs (beyond this years) if they wanted. The Hawks are not in the “stuck” position (like the 2021-22 Spurs) that we would like to think they are.

Just my opinion.

[scott]

I mean directly out of the draft though.

Out of the obvious prospective suitors, none have assets as valuable to offer as the Hawks own picks back, so why should the Spurs add to that with a probably top 3-4 pick too? What's wrong with adding the Craptors 1st + Jones?

In the unlikely event someone tops that, the Spurs could reassess at that point.

The asset that is more valuable is Trae Young. The Spurs aren’t going to get him for cheap just because no one else can offer more. The Hawks don’t need to trade him. We need Trae to ask to be traded, then we’ll be cooking with gas.

[tbdog]

ALT would want all their picks back, and Spurs would want protections on those picks. Lakers might offer three 1st. There will be compititon. But one of Trae or Murray will be traded.

[sfernald]

While I like DJM (and was big proponent of that move prior to the Trae rumors/speculation surfacing), I have a hard time seeing the Spurs wanting to go down that route, and I have a hard time with how DJM & Dev would work together behind Wemby and potentially another priority name being added to the mix, either by trade or draft eventually. Both DJM and Devin have alpha-mentalities, whether or not they've actually earned them, which may end up being slightly problematic as they get pushed down the pecking order. The more I think of it, the more I just don't think the Spurs would want to go back down the DJM rabbit hole.

Maybe Dev should get rid of that little pony tail thing and look like an alpha then.

[Chinook]

The asset that is more valuable is Trae Young. The Spurs aren’t going to get him for cheap just because no one else can offer more. The Hawks don’t need to trade him. We need Trae to ask to be traded, then we’ll be cooking with gas.

The Spurs can (and should) just not even engage with the Hawks on a Young trade until after the draft. That way, there's no reason why the 2024 pick has to be involved. I don't know that we have to worry too much about the scenario where ATL doesn't want to trade Young but SA really wants him. I wouldn't be surprised if Trae is no close to as high on PATFO's due diligence list as posters here believe. The team historically has had a more conservative idea of win-now trades. I think their preference would be (first to wait, but assuming they'd feel some pressure to make a move, they would be) going for someone in the Sexton or maybe Simons. I don't think they're going to proactively try for the top of the market so early in their rebuilding prospects. They're trying to fill roles, not build a championship core.

[scott]

The Spurs can (and should) just not even engage with the Hawks on a Young trade until after the draft. That way, there's no reason why the 2024 pick has to be involved. I don't know that we have to worry too much about the scenario where ATL doesn't want to trade Young but SA really wants him. I wouldn't be surprised if Trae is no close to as high on PATFO's due diligence list as posters here believe. The team historically has had a more conservative idea of win-now trades. I think their preference would be (first to wait, but assuming they'd feel some pressure to make a move, they would be) going for someone in the Sexton or maybe Simons. I don't think they're going to proactively try for the top of the market so early in their rebuilding prospects. They're trying to fill roles, not build a championship core.

I definitely agree with that and think it’s unlikely Trae ends up a Spurs unless Trae demands a trade. But in a situation where he doesn’t, I don’t think he’ll be cheap and I don’t think the Spurs will be interested in paying the price - certainly this FO has never shown any proclivity to make an acquisition of the sort. I guess there is a first time for everything, but I don’t see it personally.

[baseline bum]

It’s all just opinions and assholes, but I disagree with this assessment of ATL and I imagine their FO does to. You see borderline lotto team… I see solid play-in team. You say they don’t have assets to improve, but they have two FRPs this year and I think DJM, Bogdanovic, Johnson, Hunter, Bey and Okogwu (all players who would be at a minimum the third best player on our team) are solid trade pieces if they want to reconfigure the chairs on the deck. They also have two more tradeable FRPs (beyond this years) if they wanted. The Hawks are not in the “stuck” position (like the 2021-22 Spurs) that we would like to think they are.

Just my opinion.

If you're arguing that what you're really telling me is this is addition by subtraction with Trae in Atlanta and therefore I don't understand why you'd want him if you feel that way. Because they were a lottery team with him this year. I don't see much interesting on that roster outside of Dejounte and Jalen Johnson and I think no way Bey would be anywhere close to third best player on this awful Spurs roster. No way I'd trade Keldon, Tre, or even Sochan for Bey and you know how little I think of Keldon and Sochan.

[scott]

If you're arguing that what you're really telling me is this is addition by subtraction with Trae in Atlanta and therefore I don't understand why you'd want him if you feel that way. Because they were a lottery team with him this year. I don't see much interesting on that roster outside of Dejounte and Jalen Johnson and I think no way Bey would be anywhere close to third best player on this awful Spurs roster. No way I'd trade Keldon, Tre, or even Sochan for Bey and you know how little I think of Keldon and Sochan.

That (addition by subtraction) is not what I’m saying at all. For now, we need to stop assuming that the Hawks default position is to trade Trae - it is not, it is to keep him. And if they keeping him, they likely don’t view themselves as a lottery team (because they aren’t. They are solidly in the Play-In, as they were with him, and they have maintained without him - their win % is pretty much the same with and without so far, and of course we can talk about what that means but I won’t in this post). So if they want to continue to build on that team, they have plenty of assets to do so, they are not some asset poor who can’t trade ANY picks and have no valuable players to trade. They actually have both.

The only way Trae comes as cheap as this board thinks is if he demands a trade, but the Hawks would just keep him. Whether or not we as fans would be happy paying the actual price is for everyone to decide on their own. I don’t think the Spurs would or will pay the price necessary, personally.

Again, if he demands a trade - all the calculus changes. My opinion is that the idea that we can get trade for only the Hawks pick (or less) is wishful thinking.

[SOMA Spur]

Curious if anyone has the stomach to trade Devin for Young? This has always been the theoretical line I've NOT been willing to cross. But I'm bored and its raining outside so I'll do it. ATL wants Devin plus all their picks/swaps back; Spurs say no. They meet in the middle.

The deal is Devin plus ATL '25 and '27 for Young, but those ATL picks turn into swaps that the Spurs control. So the Spurs will have swap rights 3 straight years with ATL, still giving them 2 theoretical bites each year at the Flag/Boozer apples. Any takers?

Curious if you see Devin as this foundational piece, a perfect #3 on a championship team? or maybe instead he's just a soon to be overpriced chucker and very expendable.

[JPB]

That (addition by subtraction) is not what I’m saying at all. For now, we need to stop assuming that the Hawks default position is to trade Trae - it is not, it is to keep him. And if they keeping him, they likely don’t view themselves as a lottery team (because they aren’t. They are solidly in the Play-In, as they were with him, and they have maintained without him - their win % is pretty much the same with and without so far, and of course we can talk about what that means but I won’t in this post). So if they want to continue to build on that team, they have plenty of assets to do so, they are not some asset poor who can’t trade ANY picks and have no valuable players to trade. They actually have both.

The only way Trae comes as cheap as this board thinks is if he demands a trade, but the Hawks would just keep him. Whether or not we as fans would be happy paying the actual price is for everyone to decide on their own. I don’t think the Spurs would or will pay the price necessary, personally.

Again, if he demands a trade - all the calculus changes. My opinion is that the idea that we can get trade for only the Hawks pick (or less) is wishful thinking.

ATL is 10th in the East, with everyone tanking behind. Not all the teams behind will keep tanking from next year on, nor 10th is what they were expecting after trading for Murray. They're on the treadmill, having badly regressed from last year and don't have enough assets to dramaticallty change that. Murray and Trae are the only guys who have real, big value, with a lot of holes to fill in their roster, not to mention bad locker room chemistry.They're not one elite role player away from contending.

I don't see any real future in their team, as such. They were a first round exit last year and might not even make it this season... The more time passes, the more DJM and Trae lose value.

[LeBowen]

Curious if anyone has the stomach to trade Devin for Young? This has always been the theoretical line I've NOT been willing to cross. But I'm bored and its raining outside so I'll do it. ATL wants Devin plus all their picks/swaps back; Spurs say no. They meet in the middle.

The deal is Devin plus ATL '25 and '27 for Young, but those ATL picks turn into swaps that the Spurs control. So the Spurs will have swap rights 3 straight years with ATL, still giving them 2 theoretical bites each year at the Flag/Boozer apples. Any takers?

Curious if you see Devin as this foundational piece, a perfect #3 on a championship team? or maybe instead he's just a soon to be overpriced chucker and very expendable.

Devin is the only player on this roster that's worth keeping and fits around Wemby, but he doesn't have superstar potential and is therefore expendable.
He's not consistent enough and defers way too much to worse players.
And he's one of the easiest archetypes to find in today's league. Shooting guard with average playmaking skills and defense.

If he keeps his current level, he's not worth 30 million a year he got.
Some will say Trae is overpaid, but he'll make just 13 million more than Devin next season and he's a way better player.

I'd easily take the offer you proposed.
Two average firsts and Devin for Trae while still keeping a lot of free cap space is a great deal.
But I don't think Hawks would accept that.

I'd then try adding Capela and Keldon in the deal.
Capela is on an expiring contract next season and would be a great backup for Wemby.
Keldon maybe still has some value and Hawks are a franchise that gets fooled by empty stats players.

If they don't want swaps, but want their picks back so they can tank, they'd have to take Collins+Keldon, I wouldn't give up Devin and give them their picks back.

[SOMA Spur]

Devin is the only player on this roster that's worth keeping and fits around Wemby, but he doesn't have superstar potential and is therefore expendable.
He's not consistent enough and defers way too much to worse players.
And he's one of the easiest archetypes to find in today's league. Shooting guard with average playmaking skills and defense.

If he keeps his current level, he's not worth 30 million a year he got.
Some will say Trae is overpaid, but he'll make just 13 million more than Devin next season and he's a way better player.

I'd easily take the offer you proposed.
Two average firsts and Devin for Trae while still keeping a lot of free cap space is a great deal.
But I don't think Hawks would accept that.

I'd then try adding Capela and Keldon in the deal.
Capela is on an expiring contract next season and would be a great backup for Wemby.
Keldon maybe still has some value and Hawks are a franchise that gets fooled by empty stats players.

If they don't want swaps, but want their picks back so they can tank, they'd have to take Collins+Keldon, I wouldn't give up Devin and give them their picks back.

Great point. Lots of avenues to replace a SG. Maybe internally with Branham taking a leap (probably not), draft Knecht with the Toronto pick, or most likely find a Vet who is almost as good as Devin.

[LeBowen]

If we get Trae, Garland or a point guard of that archetype, I don't think we should have a scoring shooting guard next to them.
I'd rather look for the next Danny Green to be the primary point of attack defender and someone who doesn't need the ball, but is an elite off ball threat.

[Knoxxx]

I agree that Vassell is an easy type of player to replace. You have Risacher and Knecht in this draft alone, that could probably be upgrades on Vassell/Johnson. Trae Jones is an excellent passer, in particular on lobs. Having him anywhere near a $40 million salary in today's NBA also seems like a bargain. While I have seen his defense being maligned, the key is he can easily outscore most any player he's against so the weak defense argument against acquiring him is largely moot.

I suggested acquiring Capela some time back, and was lambasted due to his lack of outside shooting. As if he would not be a huge upgrade on Sochan, regardless of that.

[Knoxxx]

If we get Trae, Garland or a point guard of that archetype, I don't think we should have a scoring shooting guard next to them.
I'd rather look for the next Danny Green to be the primary point of attack defender and someone who doesn't need the ball, but is an elite off ball threat.

Champagnie has been showing signs of becoming a credible defender. I thought how he played against Doncic was pretty decent. I'd like to see him and Barlow get more minutes as this season winds down.

[TD 21]

By the time this trade would be completed, we’d know if the Raptors pick is conveying or not - if it is, that opens up this trade and alleviates your concerns of only having a mid/late FRP from SAC. Say we land the #5 pick and we get the TOR #7 pick. I don’t care enough about the difference between those picks to haggle over the SA pick versus the TOR pick.

Forget the concept against bidding against themselves for now. No one has bid anything, and we aren’t at the negotiating table, so we need not concern ourselves with negotiating against ourselves since this is all meaningless chatter. Just evaluate that deal in itself, not in relation to what you think the Spurs should try to do. Only ask yourself, if that is ATL’s final offer - do you do it?

I would do it, because I think that overall package is fair value. I also (my own personal opinion) think Trae will cost more than what people would like to hope. ATL is not currently in a situation where they must trade Trae, so their next best alternative is not what other teams could possible offer - its simply keeping him and adding two FRPs to their team and whatever other deals they can make to try and make their team better.

Now, if Trae asks for a trade, either in public or behind the scenes, then the calculus all changes and the Spurs gain maximum leverage. Until then, the Hawks likely do not view themselves as in debt of high picks… they probably view their immediate future as a slight improvement (because all teams think they will get better) over the play-in team they are now, and they likely aren’t overly concerned with the late-teens picks they owe the Spurs in 2025 and 2027 and the possibility they might downgrade their pick in 2026 (which they again, probably view as maybe dropping from the late teens to the early 20s at worst).

Are the Hawks being realistic in viewing it this way? Maybe… maybe not. But they aren’t exactly a basement dweller who feels they need to blow it up. They are a solid play-in team (even with Trae injured) who have two FRPs this year, some decent support pieces, and they probably think they can get better. We don’t have them over a barrel like SpursTalk.com likes to think we do.

I'm aware of that and was obviously operating in the hypothetical where the Craptors 1st doesn't convey this season. Of course, if it did and the gap was miniscule between the natural pick and it, that'd probably change things.

I'd be more open to swapping for the Hawks natural pick than the Kings pick if certain player(s) aren't available or attainable at the Spurs natural pick.

Impossible to divorce it from what I suspect the other offers will be because that would weigh heavily on my decision. I probably wouldn't do it though.

Again, I'm obviously operating in the hypothetical where Young, the Hawks or mutually they've agreed to seek a trade and once the cat is out of the bag, there's no going back. So in that scenario, yeah the Spurs will have leverage.


The asset that is more valuable is Trae Young. The Spurs aren’t going to get him for cheap just because no one else can offer more. The Hawks don’t need to trade him. We need Trae to ask to be traded, then we’ll be cooking with gas.

Already mostly answered this, but my proposal isn't cheap and Young, as arguably the most polarizing player playing the most saturated position in the league, almost certainly won't have as big of a market as a typical star.

[Knoxxx]

Even giving back ATL the picks they gave us would be acceptable, for Young. That means we basically loaned them Murray so we could tank to get Wemby. Then, we "upgraded" from Murray to Young for free.

I think though that Murray is the better overall player than Young, and would rather have him back. I do think this idea that we have ATL over a barrel and need to stick it to them is a bad idea. I understand though, that we want to see them fall into the lottery and keep a hold of their unprotected FRP next season. I'm thinking that Young or Murray are more of a "bird in hand" that would make a lot of sense for us, though. I'm sure this has been litigated quite a bit, but we don't know that ATL is lottery bound at all next season. They do seem like a team that needs to start thinking about a rebuild though, no doubt.

[scott]

ATL is 10th in the East, with everyone tanking behind. Not all the teams behind will keep tanking from next year on, nor 10th is what they were expecting after trading for Murray. They're on the treadmill, having badly regressed from last year and don't have enough assets to dramaticallty change that. Murray and Trae are the only guys who have real, big value, with a lot of holes to fill in their roster, not to mention bad locker room chemistry.They're not one elite role player away from contending.

I don't see any real future in their team, as such. They were a first round exit last year and might not even make it this season... The more time passes, the more DJM and Trae lose value.

At this point, all any of can say is… we’ll see. I will continue to contend that this board underestimates what it will take to land Trae because we assume ATL will want to blow it up (whether they actually should or not is another matter). Before the season, a lot of people here thought we’d be a play-in team. Outside of Wemby, Atlanta remains significantly better positioned to be a play-off team (and is in a weaker conference).

We’ll see! (Actually, I don’t think we will, because I think the Hawks will tell the Spurs what it will take and the Spurs will just move on)

[Knoxxx]

Murray is a baller, let's be real on that.

[poopbox]

People keep harping on Trae bad defense but most of his defensive metrics grade out higher than Branhim's and Wesley's :rollin

As bad as people think Trae is on defense he would actually be a step in the right direction for this team :rollin

Factor in the fact that he carries alot of the offensive load for Atlanta while Branhim and Wesly have no offensive responsibilities other than being wide open to shoot 3's and layups...and they are still as bad or worst than Trae defensively

[onechance87]

Murray is a baller, let's be real on that.

guy is a dog

[KobesAchilles]

If I am trading for Trae I would more than willing to be trade Devin for him. It saves us a pick and an unpopular opinion on Devin as the year has gone by is that he doesn’t fit the roster as much as I believed he did. He’s not talented enough (and never will be) to be our 2nd option on a contender. And I don’t think he fits much as a 3 guy either. If Devin wants to stay on this team he needs to stop focusing on offense and go back to his days of playing defense. The dude needs to be more like KCP instead of thinking he’s Kobe. And on this it’s KPC I would go after if we traded Devin for Trae. Dude fits seamlessly.

That being said PATFO will never trade Devin. And I don’t think they know how to build a contender anymore anyways. I have zero faith in our front office

[rankingtear]

People keep harping on Trae bad defense but most of his defensive metrics grade out higher than Branhim's and Wesley's :rollin

As bad as people think Trae is on defense he would actually be a step in the right direction for this team :rollin

Factor in the fact that he carries alot of the offensive load for Atlanta while Branhim and Wesly have no offensive responsibilities other than being wide open to shoot 3's and layups...and they are still as bad or worst than Trae defensively

They are not worse than that midget. Trae does not exist on defense. The only way he gets steals and charges cause they don't know he is there.

[Knoxxx]

Given the turds we are laying to end the season I’d think it’s safe to say nobody but the one is untouchable for the right deal.

[poopbox]

They are not worse than that midget. Trae does not exist on defense. The only way he gets steals and charges cause they don't know he is there.

None of our guards get steals or charges :rollin

[rankingtear]

None of our guards get steals or charges :rollin

That's my point, Trae is like a ninja to regular NBA players. They have to look at the floor to see if he is there.

[tbdog]

If I am trading for Trae I would more than willing to be trade Devin for him. It saves us a pick and an unpopular opinion on Devin as the year has gone by is that he doesn’t fit the roster as much as I believed he did. He’s not talented enough (and never will be) to be our 2nd option on a contender. And I don’t think he fits much as a 3 guy either. If Devin wants to stay on this team he needs to stop focusing on offense and go back to his days of playing defense. The dude needs to be more like KCP instead of thinking he’s Kobe. And on this it’s KPC I would go after if we traded Devin for Trae. Dude fits seamlessly.

That being said PATFO will never trade Devin. And I don’t think they know how to build a contender anymore anyways. I have zero faith in our front office

I have concerns that Vassell hasn't been able to put the ball on the floor to punish players when he gets run off the line. He isn't a disaster, but overall his playmaking is not of a guard level, although he seems to find Wemby a fair bit more recently. But 37% from three at 7attempts per 36. Those are nice numbers. And considering he can hold his own on D, that's a bonus. Add 23 years old on a declining contract, okay now you can see why Spurs won't add him to a trade.

[Knoxxx]

I have concerns that Vassell hasn't been able to put the ball on the floor to punish players when he gets run off the line. He isn't a disaster, but overall his playmaking is not of a guard level, although he seems to find Wemby a fair bit more recently. But 37% from three at 7attempts per 36. Those are nice numbers. And considering he can hold his own on D, that's a bonus. Add 23 years old on a declining contract, okay now you can see why Spurs won't add him to a trade.

You also highlight why he could be our most marketable asset.

[Tyronn Lue]

I have concerns that Vassell hasn't been able to put the ball on the floor to punish players when he gets run off the line. He isn't a disaster, but overall his playmaking is not of a guard level, although he seems to find Wemby a fair bit more recently. But 37% from three at 7attempts per 36. Those are nice numbers. And considering he can hold his own on D, that's a bonus. Add 23 years old on a declining contract, okay now you can see why Spurs won't add him to a trade.
Other than Victor, there's not a single player on the Spurs roster that presents a matchup problem to any team in the league.

[tbdog]

Other than Victor, there's not a single player on the Spurs roster that presents a matchup problem to any team in the league.

Vassell becomes a matchup problem if he is lower on the pecking order. Being number 2 is unlikely his peak. Even Middleton struggled with that role for years.

[baseline bum]

Curious if anyone has the stomach to trade Devin for Young? This has always been the theoretical line I've NOT been willing to cross. But I'm bored and its raining outside so I'll do it. ATL wants Devin plus all their picks/swaps back; Spurs say no. They meet in the middle.

The deal is Devin plus ATL '25 and '27 for Young, but those ATL picks turn into swaps that the Spurs control. So the Spurs will have swap rights 3 straight years with ATL, still giving them 2 theoretical bites each year at the Flag/Boozer apples. Any takers?

Curious if you see Devin as this foundational piece, a perfect #3 on a championship team? or maybe instead he's just a soon to be overpriced chucker and very expendable.

That's like a have your cake and eat it kind of deal. You get Trae Young while sending Atlanta into a tank and you still get control of their drafts for the next three years and all it costs you is Vassell and the worse of the 25 and 27 picks b/w the Spurs and Hawks? Sign me up in a second, but in this universe I might as well just trade Vassell for SGA, Collins for Ant, then sign 2005 Ginobili and 2014 Diaw for the vet min.

[exstatic]

You also highlight why he could be our most marketable asset.

Second most.

[scott]

If I am trading for Trae I would more than willing to be trade Devin for him. It saves us a pick and an unpopular opinion on Devin as the year has gone by is that he doesn’t fit the roster as much as I believed he did. He’s not talented enough (and never will be) to be our 2nd option on a contender. And I don’t think he fits much as a 3 guy either. If Devin wants to stay on this team he needs to stop focusing on offense and go back to his days of playing defense. The dude needs to be more like KCP instead of thinking he’s Kobe. And on this it’s KPC I would go after if we traded Devin for Trae. Dude fits seamlessly.

That being said PATFO will never trade Devin. And I don’t think they know how to build a contender anymore anyways. I have zero faith in our front office

Man, I second this big time. I feel like Devin is fool’s gold. He flashes good stuff consistently enough to think he could be it… but it’s all just fools gold. I’d rather someone else take the bait while we reap the rewards. Realizing that Devin has pretty much never made the big clutch play is what sealed it for me. We moved on from DJM because we didn’t feel like he was the star we needed, but he at least made some big time plays in the clutch from time to time. Hell, even Keldon has. I can’t think of a single time Devin has hit that game tying/winning shot or big defensive stop.

And if there are some examples… I’d love to be wrong. I don’t count throwing a few lobs to Wemby early in OT as “big time clutch plays”

[LeBowen]

Man, I second this big time. I feel like Devin is fool’s gold. He flashes good stuff consistently enough to think he could be it… but it’s all just fools gold. I’d rather someone else take the bait while we reap the rewards. Realizing that Devin has pretty much never made the big clutch play is what sealed it for me. We moved on from DJM because we didn’t feel like he was the star we needed, but he at least made some big time plays in the clutch from time to time. Hell, even Keldon has. I can’t think of a single time Devin has hit that game tying/winning shot or big defensive stop.

And if there are some examples… I’d love to be wrong. I don’t count throwing a few lobs to Wemby early in OT as “big time clutch plays”

It's not even about clutch plays for me, it's about him completely disappearing in a lot of games.
I'd rather have him chuck us out of the game than leave that duty to Keldon and Jeremy.

I also just realized Grayson Allen is a free agent this summer.
Most efficent 3pt shooter in the league this season on high volume. And a good defender. And doesn't need the ball.

I'd gladly get some assets back for Devin and get Allen who'd fit way better and earn less.

And with these recent developments, I'm more and more in line of dumping this entire roster.

My subjective, ideal scenario as of now:

1. Naz Reid for either one good first rounder or two weaker ones. Maybe one solid first and a swap. Anyhow, needs to be the priority. Wolves can also get anyone they want on the roster if they'd like.
2. Trae for Keldon+Collins and Hawks picks.
3. Grayson Allen as a free agent. Not many teams have cap space and not many teams need a shooting guard. Offer him 70/4 or 80/5.
4. Get rid of Devin's contract while teams see him as the only good player except Wemby on our roster. Find a 3-D wing coming our way. Maybe Brooklyn would take Devin in a deal for Bridges. I don't think Pelicans would take him in a deal for Jones/Murphy. Okoro is another, cheaper target I'd like.

Cap is at $141M the next season.
Not guaranteeing Devonte means Spurs have 34M in cap space.
Devin, Keldon and Collins are due 64M, trading them would leave us with 98M in cap space.

Trae, Reid and Bridges will make 80M combined.
18M left for Grayson Allen.

If someone wuold take Jeremy and/or Branham, that's another 5.5+3.2M in cap space.

Building around Wemby isn't rocket science, just get him an elite playmaker who's a triple threat and has gravity of his own, add 3-D players on the perimeter and we're in the playoffs right away...if Pop gets over himself, that is.
Trae-Grayson-SF-Naz-Wemby is an elite lineup if we can get Bridges or Herb for the SF position.

Jones as the backup PG. Barlow/Bassey as backup bigs, with Reid also being to take some minutes there.
SF we draft this year, Cissoko and Champagnie as backup perimeter players. Also Jeremy if noone takes him.