There is Markannen to Spurs Buzz

[Arguendo]

lots of competition...

https://x.com/TheDunkCentral/status/1807888329972633860

Twolves & Sac may have to be 3-team trades…Minny was no future assets & Sac still needs to give Fox his Max extension or trade Sabonis. Don’t see it making sense, but would love to get Naz in a 3-way, surely Minny would rather move off KAT (+ Dilly for someone to take that K?),

[scott]

What's MINN going to offer? Complete ownership of their team? Don't buy that at all. MINN has literally nothing of value to send to Utah unless the price for Lauri is next to nothing (which its not).

Sacramento? I can't see it either. The Kings seem desperate to do a big move, but I don't see how they can compete with GSW and SAS (even we are even actually competing).

[cd98]

lots of competition...

https://x.com/TheDunkCentral/status/1807888329972633860

So many people looking to feast, Markkanen is going to be very expensive.

[scott]

What's the most KAT could fetch to do a 3-way deal? Seems like KAT alone can't return enough to land Lauri.

[SpursDynasty85]

No thanks. I don't think he's the guy I'd be willing to go all-in on.

we have the assets to go for two of these types of guys. The second guy would be the all-in guy cause it would require everything we have left after getting someone like Markhannen.

[DAF86]

the better way to put it is Ainge is very difficult to deal with. if he doesnt get a lopsided trade in his favor, he walks

Then we do the same, tbh.

[Pauleta14]

"showing interest" = asking for the price

Ainge is smart and connected enough to use it

As usual with PATFO, nobody knows shit...

[Knoxxx]

We don’t need a 3 star super team because Wemby = 2 stars by himself.

[Pauleta14]

What's the most KAT could fetch to do a 3-way deal? Seems like KAT alone can't return enough to land Lauri.

No way Utah wants KAT if they're tanking/rebuilding

[scott]

Too many people look at trading drafts as we're losing something... when in reality we gain the security of knowing Brian Wright can't select any more Primos or Branhams. Trading picks for Lauri is a win-win, in that sense.

[Knoxxx]

"showing interest" = asking for the price

Ainge is smart and connected enough to use it

As usual with PATFO, nobody knows shit...

The second and third article I saw seemed to be parroting the first re Lauri to Spurs.

[Knoxxx]

Too many people look at trading drafts as we're losing something... when in reality we gain the security of knowing Brian Wright can't select any more Primos or Branhams. Trading picks for Lauri is a win-win, in that sense.

We have excess draft capital.

[LeBowen]

Even if Sacramento had a lot of assets, which they don't, having both Sabonis and Markkanen makes no sense whatsoever.
They either have to move Sabonis or give him a Gordon, like Nuggets did with Jokic.

After making the trade with us, Minnesota is done.
In summer 2025 they'll be almost over the second apron with just Conley, Ant, KAT, Gobert, McDaniels and two current rookies on the roster.
Gobert and KAT no real value because of their contracts, they can only move them in lateral moves with other contenders or salary dump them.
They'll have to choose between keeping McDaniels or Naz, with NAW walking either way.
They better hope Dillingham is the next Iverson or they're fucked in a few years.

[emanueldavidginobili]

1807877773421433018

[Dejounte]

https://x.com/tjonesonthenba/status/1807899204398072187?s=46

Jazz reporter who Jazz fans say is plugged in

[lefty20]

Found Ainge's burner account

1807885461106647361

[sfernald]

OKC is out. Their book will blow up in 2 years if they get Lauri. Plus, Lauri won't get many touches there. So he won't go.

So, be ready to celebrate, We will get Lauri easily. This just happens at the right time, right person and the right place. Go Spurs Go!

Nah, I see Mark as a real possibility there. Presto is going to use his assets to build the strongest four year window to get a championship. So trading his numerous assets for Mark and then maxing him makes a ton of sense. Right now is the time to do this. Chet and Jdub are on rookie contracts. They will then go into rookie max contracts which aren’t really bad contracts at all. Shai has a few years before he goes into a really high max contract. I have no doubt Presti can handle that easily with a growing cap and lots of assets left over.

‘’Don’t be surprised at all if Okc is Spurs biggest competior. They could offer:

Dieng
Wallace
Kenrich Williams

4 unprotected firsts
2 unprotected pick swaps
4 seconds

and not even bat an eye.

[Pauleta14]

https://x.com/tjonesonthenba/status/1807899204398072187?s=46

Jazz reporter who Jazz fans say is plugged in

as "Ainge unofficial's spoke person"? :lol

[vy65]

https://x.com/tjonesonthenba/status/1807899204398072187?s=46

Jazz reporter who Jazz fans say is plugged in

The first tweet in that thread makes it sound like a deal is happening. Then you have Jake Fischer saying the exact opposite. Lots of smoke, especially with the reports of SAC and MIN trying to get in on the action.

[Degoat]

It’s not going to happen guys, no chance in hell you’re giving up all these assets for Markkanen. Go try to get Cam Johnson

[Manu&Duncan fan]

Nah, I see Mark as a real possibility there. Presto is going to use his assets to build the strongest four year window to get a championship. So trading his numerous assets for Mark and then maxing him makes a ton of sense. Right now is the time to do this. Chet and Jdub are on rookie contracts. They will then go into rookie max contracts which aren’t really bad contracts at all. Shai has a few years before he goes into a really high max contract. I have no doubt Presti can handle that easily with a growing cap and lots of assets left over.

‘’Don’t be surprised at all if Okc is Spurs biggest competior. They could offer:

Dieng
Wallace
Kenrich Williams

4 unprotected firsts
2 unprotected pick swaps
4 seconds

and not even bat an eye.


No worries. Lauri will turn OKC down by refusing extension. He doesn't want to be their 3rd banana and average only 15 points per game.

[scott]

If Lauri gets dealt and it's not to us, then I fucking hope and pray it is some absurd overpay offer that makes no sense. Because if we goes for a deal that we could have reasonably competed with, I might lose my shit.

[Wilt Chamberlain]

Thing with dealing with someone like Ainge is you need to be patient and not outbid yourself. I think the Spurs have the patience but this place doesn't. Will be fun to watch.

[Knoxxx]

I’m pretty sure we can pony up as many as 12 second round picks if necessary

[CGD]

Found Ainge's burner account

1807885461106647361

Foolishness.

If the Spurs really want him, just wait a year when they’ll have boatloads of cap space as well. Keep Castle. Keep Vassell. Keep all the pick.

[tbdog]

Just for some of your information, just browsing through the thread. Lauri won't accept an extension. Jazz will absolutely offer it, but the starting salary is like 25mil p/y, significantly under what he would if he signs a contract next season. That means, Lauri absolutely will be a free agent next season.

Now the Spurs or any other team, can speak to Lauri agent before approving a trade, on will Lauri resign with them and at what figure. The figure will be the max, as he is worth it. Depending on the teams relationship with the agent, it will be a given that he will resign. But things can absolutely sour over a course of the year.

Also, we have heard no news about Mitchell.

[TD 21]

I get the appeal, but I'd rather blow the load on a perimeter player with size eventually.


It’s not going to happen guys, no chance in hell you’re giving up all these assets for Markkanen. Go try to get Cam Johnson

I'd be shocked if it did, but there's still probably a better chance of it than Johnson.

I can't imagine them giving up multiple good assets for a late 20s, injury prone role player, who's signed to a multi year deal.

[CGD]

Just for some of your information, just browsing through the thread. Lauri won't accept an extension. Jazz will absolutely offer it, but the starting salary is like 25mil p/y, significantly under what he would if he signs a contract next season. That means, Lauri absolutely will be a free agent next season.

Now the Spurs or any other team, can speak to Lauri agent before approving a trade, on will Lauri resign with them and at what figure. The figure will be the max, as he is worth it. Depending on the teams relationship with the agent, it will be a given that he will resign. But things can absolutely sour over a course of the year.

Also, we have heard no news about Mitchell.

Exactly. No real upshot in getting him now. Just wait a year. Utah is overstating its power.

Plus the Spurs are stealth tanking so…

[Knoxxx]

We said no chance in hell of getting Wemby either

[My Fault]

Too many people look at trading drafts as we're losing something... when in reality we gain the security of knowing Brian Wright can't select any more Primos or Branhams. Trading picks for Lauri is a win-win, in that sense.
There is never a win-win when dealing with Ainge.

[tbdog]

Exactly. No real upshot in getting him now. Just wait a year. Utah is overstating its power.

Plus the Spurs are stealth tanking so…

Not exactly true. Any of team that sends assets to acquire Lauri, will be given the all clear from his agent that he will resign for the max. If the Spurs want him for title runs over the next 5 years, Spurs need to trade for him.

At the same time, if the Jazz don't trade him, we have to assume he has agreed to sign a max with them in the off season. In saying that, if there is any hint he won't, the Jazz will trade him for the best offer.

Edit, if Jazz are 'listening to offers,' the assumption is that he is not 100% committed to the Jazz. The Jazz will have to weigh in the offers and compare to resigning him, with the risk of losing him for nothing, re PG3.

[Wilt Chamberlain]

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/ranking-all-56-traded-future-nba-first-round-picks-kevin-durant-kyrie-irving-trades-shake-up-list/

This is an article from last year. It does a good job listing who has what and how things are valued even if their predictions were inconsistent. About a third of these traded assets in the article were used this past draft and it does not include this year's deals like the pick and swap for Dillingham.

[Knoxxx]

What can Jazz pay him on reup v other teams?

[Mal]

Markanen is great target. Any pick/swap that is not Atlanta or SA should be in play. Utah is going to tank.

[scott]

Just for some of your information, just browsing through the thread. Lauri won't accept an extension. Jazz will absolutely offer it, but the starting salary is like 25mil p/y, significantly under what he would if he signs a contract next season. That means, Lauri absolutely will be a free agent next season.

Now the Spurs or any other team, can speak to Lauri agent before approving a trade, on will Lauri resign with them and at what figure. The figure will be the max, as he is worth it. Depending on the teams relationship with the agent, it will be a given that he will resign. But things can absolutely sour over a course of the year.

Also, we have heard no news about Mitchell.

Technically Lauri will become a FA, but it will be just like the OG and Siakam trades. Before any deal is done, the acquiring team will have a basic agreement to extend in place and, just like Pascal and OG, an extension would be done before the free agency period even starts. There would be risks that things turn horribly south and the parties don't want to continue... and that would suck, but that's kind of the risk you run with every acquisition (see Harden, James), and the Spurs would at least still in be in position to facility a S&T with the 5th year and 8% raises.

[Knoxxx]

Markanen is great target. Any pick/swap that is not Atlanta or SA should be in play. Utah is going to tank.

You trippin, we can start dumping our own FRPs starting with 27 and then any year we don’t have a pick swap. BOS swap 28 not a stopper either. Someone proposed trading our 27, 29, 31 FRPs. They were on the right track there.

[scott]

Not exactly true. Any of team that sends assets to acquire Lauri, will be given the all clear from his agent that he will resign for the max. If the Spurs want him for title runs over the next 5 years, Spurs need to trade for him.

At the same time, if the Jazz don't trade him, we have to assume he has agreed to sign a max with them in the off season. In saying that, if there is any hint he won't, the Jazz will trade him for the best offer.

Edit, if Jazz are 'listening to offers,' the assumption is that he is not 100% committed to the Jazz. The Jazz will have to weigh in the offers and compare to resigning him, with the risk of losing him for nothing, re PG3.

If Lauri doesn't get traded this month, I'd fully expect him to get a raise-and-extend in August (which the Jazz can do. They don't have to wait until next offseason to give him a max extension).

Mostly agree with your last point, though Ainge seems like the guy who is never too committed to any one path, and if value comes along, he'll pivot. What I mean by that is, he may be committed to Lauri, and Lauri to the Jazz, right up until Ainge gets an offer he can't ignore.

[Knoxxx]

Or we could just be patsies in a 3 team deal that send Lauri to OKC:

https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/10126630-a-3-team-trade-to-move-lauri-markkanen-during-nba-free-agency.amp.html

[z0sa]

Or we could just be patsies in a 3 team deal that send Lauri to OKC:

https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/10126630-a-3-team-trade-to-move-lauri-markkanen-during-nba-free-agency.amp.html

The Spurs get off pretty well here, at least at face value - but would PATFO really prop a rival up like that?

[Degoat]

Or we could just be patsies in a 3 team deal that send Lauri to OKC:

https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/10126630-a-3-team-trade-to-move-lauri-markkanen-during-nba-free-agency.amp.html

That’s somewhat interesting but it makes OKC so freaking good lol

[scott]

Or we could just be patsies in a 3 team deal that send Lauri to OKC:

https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/10126630-a-3-team-trade-to-move-lauri-markkanen-during-nba-free-agency.amp.html

We give up a 2026 FRP (which has ATL Swap Rights attached to it and might be one of our most valuable FRPs), a 2027 FRP Swap, Zach and a 2028 SRP for fucking Lu Dort and Walker Kessler? This only makes sense value-wise because we get off Collins, but we are not that desperate to get off Collins (especially since this is just giving the same money to Lu Dort). Otherwise, this is fucking atrocious.

Also, taking part in a 3-way deal so that Lauri can go somewhere else would be the biggest dick punch since we did something like draft Rob Dillingham only to trade him.

Some of you think giving up a valuable FRP and a swap for a subpar starting SF and upgrading the backup C position is a good deal? But you don't want to give up assets for Lauri Markannen? wtf. Sorry to go Mr. Body on all of you... but c'mon.

[TeKu]

If Lauri doesn't get traded this month, I'd fully expect him to get a raise-and-extend in August (which the Jazz can do. They don't have to wait until next offseason to give him a max extension).
.

I don't think that gets him to a max though still, as they can only take ~$14m into the season to facilitate that given the salary floor kicks in at the start of the season. Even with a 40% raise off that, he is still 4-5m per short of the projected max next year. So to get the max he will have to hit free agency.

[scott]

I don't think that gets him to a max though still, as they can only take ~$14m into the season to facilitate that given the salary floor kicks in at the start of the season. Even with a 40% raise off that, he is still 4-5m per short of the projected max next year. So to get the max he will have to hit free agency.

But IIRC, the Salary Floor doesn't need to be met until October, but Lauri can extend and resign in August. So the Jazz can carry more than $14 by the time they need to do this?

[TeKu]

But IIRC, the Salary Floor doesn't need to be met until October, but Lauri can extend and resign in August. So the Jazz can carry more than $14 by the time they need to do this?

Ahhh, you could well be right. Thought I'd seen something like that but your dates make sense.

[Mikesatx]

Markanen is one of the few players from the standpoint of ability, age, personality that is both gettable and worthy of pivoting to a win now mode. He has been awesome for Utah. The problem has been over the last two years Utah has traded the good players around him. Looking back at his early years, he was drafted by Chicago. Not sure if there is a worse team on the league at player development. Of all the names mentioned this offseason he is the only one I would strongly consider giving up significant draft capital for. Not a blind yes for me but would be aggressive to get this guy.

[tbdog]

If Lauri doesn't get traded this month, I'd fully expect him to get a raise-and-extend in August (which the Jazz can do. They don't have to wait until next offseason to give him a max extension).

Mostly agree with your last point, though Ainge seems like the guy who is never too committed to any one path, and if value comes along, he'll pivot. What I mean by that is, he may be committed to Lauri, and Lauri to the Jazz, right up until Ainge gets an offer he can't ignore.

I thought the raise and extension has to still be within the 40% range increase, which makes his annual salary starting around 25mil.

[CGD]

^ I think part of what made him look so good was that we had on a bargain deal. He could play exactly the same way on his next much larger deal, and be panned as middling.

[Mr. Body]

Or we could just be patsies in a 3 team deal that send Lauri to OKC:

https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/10126630-a-3-team-trade-to-move-lauri-markkanen-during-nba-free-agency.amp.html

That's almost attractive just to get Dort out of OKC and no defense Markkanen in. He'd be a sieve. If the Thunder struggled to handle an injured Doncic they'd have no prayer after this trade.

[scott]

I thought the raise and extension has to still be within the 40% range increase, which makes his annual salary starting around 25mil.

From what I understand (and I'm not an expert, perhaps Chinook can weigh in), the Jazz can use whatever cap space they have to renegotiate his current deal, and THEN give him an extension with 140% raises. The most notable example is when IND renegotiated Miles Turner's contract and nearly doubled his pay from $18MM/yr to $35MM/yr.

As far as I can tell, the Jazz have $40MM in cap space, so they can bump him up to anything over $33MM/yr and then 140% will cover a max.

[LeBowen]

That's almost attractive just to get Dort out of OKC and no defense Markkanen in. He'd be a sieve. If the Thunder struggled to handle an injured Doncic they'd have no prayer after this trade.

How the hell can you be a fan of Dillingham and write about Markkanen being a sieve?

[Dejounte]

Educational thread on what the Jazz can do:

https://www.reddit.com/r/UtahJazz/s/qP4bBsytiE

[Mr. Body]

Educational thread on what the Jazz can do:

https://www.reddit.com/r/UtahJazz/s/qP4bBsytiE

Yeah that's the thread where they swear they can get Vassell and Castle easy. They're cruising for massive disappointment.

[Arguendo]

What's the most KAT could fetch to do a 3-way deal? Seems like KAT alone can't return enough to land Lauri.

For smart teams, he’s more or less negative value…but for the right (bad/mediocre) franchise he could save a GM a job for a couple yrs or put butts in seats (Atl & Chi are always happy with just that)

There are quite a few bad teams with bad/insecure front offices, especially in the east with less competition. My fav maybe Atlanta.
Hawks are happy with mediocrity, don’t own their pick til ‘28, & maybe just dumb enough.

Flip what they just got for DJM + other picks/assets (Zac, Daniels, whatev) to pair their “All-World” PG with a 28 y/o 4x all star, 2x All-NBA “All-World” C
That likely makes the Hawks a solid 6/7/8 seed for the next couple yrs, think that garbage franchise could talk themselves into it. They love the treadmill, love all-stat, no-chance-to-win “Stars”. KAT & Trae would b a phenomenal shitshow.

[paperboy77]

Spurs are able to pick up Markannen and we are near the top. Spurs should push this trade a Kelen and up to 2 firsts for this guy. Why not? Even if we give something up they still have tons to play with and a very good team that other vets would want to come play for. This would leave Wemby at the center where he's best and add an awesome modern day PF. Can't touch this.

[playbonner15]

Markkanen is my wet dream but Ainge doesn't make trades unless he bends you over in the process. Would be too expensive imo. And Lauri is set to be overpaid next Summer too unfortunately.

Markkanen has only 1 year left on his contract right? I expect Spurs to hold on to their picks and go after him in 2025 instead

[slick'81]

Yeah,wright doesn't want any of ainge

[Blizzardwizard]

PATFO targeting him via trade would make more sense than waiting for him to hit FA next year.

Their draft capital gives them an advantage over almost every other team in trade talks - especially when the selling team are looking to tank.

In FA that advantage disappears and the Spurs are just one of many teams with cap space who'd be in the running.

Of course him walking in FA after a trade is a risk-factor but that shouldn't happen if PATFO are actually good at their jobs (I'm mashing the doubt button LA Noire-style right now).

[HankChinaski]

I agree that just waiting out till he is a free agent is better than just trading assets right now. Unless there is a fair trade package the spurs FO can live with I would just wait. No need to over bid.

[SpursGenius]

If we trade for Lauri I'll rescind all of my criticisms of this FO and rejoin the Church of Sniff.

So long as we can retain our 25 picks, I don't care how many it will take (within reason). They'll be late FRPs anyway by then, and it's not like I trust these guys to draft anymore anyway.

In the name of Eric Zhang, make it happen please.

why do people exagerate the number 1 picks. we dont have many and most wont be top 10. Also LM sux

[Chinook]

From what I understand (and I'm not an expert, perhaps Chinook (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=37557) can weigh in), the Jazz can use whatever cap space they have to renegotiate his current deal, and THEN give him an extension with 140% raises. The most notable example is when IND renegotiated Miles Turner's contract and nearly doubled his pay from $18MM/yr to $35MM/yr.

As far as I can tell, the Jazz have $40MM in cap space, so they can bump him up to anything over $33MM/yr and then 140% will cover a max.

I haven't been able to find a comprehensive explanation for this CBA like for the last one. From looking at the old CBA FAQ, it seems like the Jazz can renegotiate than extend him based on that renegotiated salary but aren't allowed to give him a raise on top of that salary beyond the normal 8 percent. It looks like if the sides waited six months, they could then agree to an extension that included the 40 percent increase. That's not explicitly spelled out in these rules, but it does talk about the importance of the extension and renegotiation being "simultaneous", and in NBA language, that tends to mean "within six months".

Dragging myself out of the weeds, I think the Spurs could trade for Markkanen and offer him an extension in the $82-90M/2 range, with some of that money being added as part of a renegotiation and extension. If they got really aggressive about it, they could probably offer almost $97M/2 for a total contract of $115M/3. That would be them waiving/trading all of their non-guaranteeds a renouncing Mamu. I actually think those types of deals could actually appeal to him, as an actual two-year max contract for him would be $95.8M/2. If the Spurs could get to $85 Million or so in new money, that might tempt him to take it now and have time for another mega deal in three years.

[mystargtr34]

I wonder is MIN is stealth shopping KAT. That would be an interesting swap.

Absolutely Minny will be throwing Towns at Utah in the Lauri proposals. The issue is do the Jazz want a 29 year old empty calories guy on $60m a year. I don’t think so.

[scott]

Lauri is set to be a FA next summer... but he'll never hit free agency. He either gets renegotiated and extended by Utah in August, or he gets traded (this offseason or at the deadline) and he'll resign before the start of FA next summer.

[Knoxxx]

Spurs are able to pick up Markannen and we are near the top. Spurs should push this trade a Kelen and up to 2 firsts for this guy. Why not? Even if we give something up they still have tons to play with and a very good team that other vets would want to come play for. This would leave Wemby at the center where he's best and add an awesome modern day PF. Can't touch this.

The problem is Keldon plus our two best FRPs may not be agreeable to Jazz. That was one reason I suggested a player as good as Vassell, our BPA to trade, and more of our less valuable FRPs.

[Mr. Body]

Just wait for him if you really want. Next year should be an easy sell: We're nearing true contention, Wemby entering his third year, one or two lottery picks in a good draft, and a position wide open for you with all the threes you want.

Pretty easy sell. If he doesn't want that, he can skate. No reason to offer much now. I'd put out Keldon, the CHI, the CHA and ask if they're willing to bet he'll extend.

[Mr. Body]

The problem is Keldon plus our two best FRPs may not be agreeable to Jazz. That was one reason I suggested a player as good as Vassell, our BPA to trade, and more of our less valuable FRPs.

It would be insane to offer a good player for him. You don't have to.

[Knoxxx]

It would be insane to offer a good player for him. You don't have to.

Jazz fans think we’d give Vassell, Keldon, bunch of FRPs for Lauri.

[mystargtr34]

It seems like the best bet for the Spurs is to tamper a little and tell Lauri that if he does not extend with Utah and let’s himself get to FA at end of 24-25 season, the Spurs will give him the full max with their cap space. Does Markannen have that F U attitude in him to screw the Jazz over? Probably not.

What is the max the Jazz can extend him for after that August date?

And what is the max the Spurs could sign him in FA in 2025?

Surely Lauri will see the fit next to Wemby and think that’s his best shot at being a perennial contender while earning max money without the pressure of being the number 1 guy.

[Mr. Body]

Jazz fans think we’d give Vassell, Keldon, bunch of FRPs for Lauri.

And Castle.

[td4mvp2k]

Jazz fans think we’d give Vassell, Keldon, bunch of FRPs for Lauri.
on a one year deal LMAO believe me that price will go way down by deadline.. spurs are in a good position right now to wait ainge out

[baseline bum]

Or we could just be patsies in a 3 team deal that send Lauri to OKC:

https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/10126630-a-3-team-trade-to-move-lauri-markkanen-during-nba-free-agency.amp.html

Whoever came up with that trade needs to slit his fucking wrists. I can't think of a worse way to piss away one of the best assets from the Murray trade. And a fucking pick swap on top of that?

[Kevin]

Whoever came up with that trade needs to slit his fucking wrists. I can't think of a worse way to piss away one of the best assets from the Murray trade. And a fucking pick swap on top of that?

Future Spurs picks aren't worth that much with a developing Wemby. Spurs went 13-14 in the their final 27 games. I still don't do that deal all the same tho.

[baseline bum]

Future Spurs picks aren't worth that much with a developing Wemby. Spurs went 13-14 in the their final 27 games. I still don't do that deal all the same tho.

That article has the Spurs blowing their 2026 pick that has an unprotected swap with Atlanta. It's an insanely stupid proposal.

[exstatic]

1800169538803356156

That shit is savage.

[exstatic]

The Warriors will be a lottery team when Curry retires and their unprotected picks are worth way more than our 27, 29, and 31 would be. Golden State gets him if that's your best offer. My offer probably beats what they can offer unless Utah really loves Kuminga.

Why are they trading for him? They’re selling players like a mad Arab at the bazaar. The literally just let a franchise icon go to save money. What’s the after party for them next summer? I can’t imagine they want to jump backup to apron territory.

[8FOR!3]

Realistically I'd give up Keldon and idk about the picks but I'd listen to how many picks. But I wouldn't even budge on more than 2 1st rounders.

[BackHome]

The problem is Keldon plus our two best FRPs may not be agreeable to Jazz. That was one reason I suggested a player as good as Vassell, our BPA to trade, and more of our less valuable FRPs.

At this point your just robbing Peter to pay Paul........

[vander]

He will cost too much in picks and in salary
Hope GS gets him

[DAF86]

Or we could just be patsies in a 3 team deal that send Lauri to OKC:

https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/10126630-a-3-team-trade-to-move-lauri-markkanen-during-nba-free-agency.amp.html

Why the fuck would the Spurs give up two unprotected picks for Dort and Kessler? :lol

[Big Empty]

Might as well trade for kawhi. They both miss 1/3 of every season every year

[LeBowen]

Might as well trade for kawhi. They both miss 1/3 of every season every year

Difference being one wants to play and complains about being shut down while the other one keeps making excuses to not play.

[SpursBills]

Just as a hypothetical question, let's suppose that KAT were available and the wolves are imploding

How much in draft capital would you be willing to pay for KAT? Because what I keep hearing about KAT is that he's a loser on a bloated contract that's not really worth trading for because he can't play defense, while he's on a 4/220 contract starting next year while Markannen will be looking for a 4/212 contract after next year

By most measures KAT has been the superior player to Markannen for their entire career. KAT has an argument to be as a good a 3 point shooter as Markannen. Is it the higher volume of 3s and the 3 year age difference that makes Markannen a superior hypothetical target? Just trying to get some perspective.

[CorrectCrusader]

Just as a hypothetical question, let's suppose that KAT were available and the wolves are imploding

How much in draft capital would you be willing to pay for KAT? Because what I keep hearing about KAT is that he's a loser on a bloated contract that's not really worth trading for because he can't play defense, while he's on a 4/220 contract starting next year while Markannen will be looking for a 4/212 contract after next year

By most measures KAT has been the superior player to Markannen for their entire career. KAT has an argument to be as a good a 3 point shooter as Markannen. Is it the higher volume of 3s and the 3 year age difference that makes Markannen a superior hypothetical target? Just trying to get some perspective.

KAT is cultural poison. I don't want Wemby catching the gay voice

[DAF86]

Just as a hypothetical question, let's suppose that KAT were available and the wolves are imploding

How much in draft capital would you be willing to pay for KAT? Because what I keep hearing about KAT is that he's a loser on a bloated contract that's not really worth trading for because he can't play defense, while he's on a 4/220 contract starting next year while Markannen will be looking for a 4/212 contract after next year

By most measures KAT has been the superior player to Markannen for their entire career. KAT has an argument to be as a good a 3 point shooter as Markannen. Is it the higher volume of 3s and the 3 year age difference that makes Markannen a superior hypothetical target? Just trying to get some perspective.

Markkanen has a much more efficient style of play. He's like a 7 foot Klay Thompson. He gives you 20+ PPG without needing the ball on his hands. He's also more mobile on the perimeter.

Also, KAT has already made himself the fame of shrinking in the playoffs. Lauri still has the benefit of the doubt on that regard.

[WaywardTexan]

Markkanen has a much more efficient style of play. He's like a 7 foot Klay Thompson. He gives you 20+ PPG without needing the ball on his hands. He's also more mobile on the perimeter.

Yeah, but is he happy?

[Seventyniner]

Just as a hypothetical question, let's suppose that KAT were available and the wolves are imploding

How much in draft capital would you be willing to pay for KAT? Because what I keep hearing about KAT is that he's a loser on a bloated contract that's not really worth trading for because he can't play defense, while he's on a 4/220 contract starting next year while Markannen will be looking for a 4/212 contract after next year

By most measures KAT has been the superior player to Markannen for their entire career. KAT has an argument to be as a good a 3 point shooter as Markannen. Is it the higher volume of 3s and the 3 year age difference that makes Markannen a superior hypothetical target? Just trying to get some perspective.

Careful, you're going to get a bunch of knee-jerk braindead takes like "no thanks, KAT is a career loser".

KAT is better than Markkanen, plain and simple. He would be harder to acquire, though, because the Wolves are in full win now mode and the Spurs can't get the Wolves control of their own drafts back.

[Biggems]

I really want Lauri and on a multi-year deal. I am ok with overpaying a bit to make it happen.

We have a ton of draft capital and some expiring contracts that we could hopefully use to trade for him. I really do not want to lose Vassell in the trade. I am ok with losing Keldon.

[tbdog]

Careful, you're going to get a bunch of knee-jerk braindead takes like "no thanks, KAT is a career loser".

KAT is better than Markkanen, plain and simple. He would be harder to acquire, though, because the Wolves are in full win now mode and the Spurs can't get the Wolves control of their own drafts back.

The real prize is in 2028, when Ant request a trade. The Spurs call, 'we have your picks.'

[rankingtear]

Markannen is who you want beside Wemby he is a dependent all star caliber player like Klay. I think SAS starts with KJ + Sochan + ATL picks.

[baseline bum]

Just as a hypothetical question, let's suppose that KAT were available and the wolves are imploding

How much in draft capital would you be willing to pay for KAT? Because what I keep hearing about KAT is that he's a loser on a bloated contract that's not really worth trading for because he can't play defense, while he's on a 4/220 contract starting next year while Markannen will be looking for a 4/212 contract after next year

By most measures KAT has been the superior player to Markannen for their entire career. KAT has an argument to be as a good a 3 point shooter as Markannen. Is it the higher volume of 3s and the 3 year age difference that makes Markannen a superior hypothetical target? Just trying to get some perspective.

Markannen will be looking for a 5 year, $269 million contract next year provided the cap increases by the 10% projected from the new TV deal.

[baseline bum]

Markannen is who you want beside Wemby he is a dependent all star caliber player like Klay. I think SAS starts with KJ + Sochan + ATL picks.

That's too much; the Atlanta 25 is completely off limits and even with Lauri here I still don't want to punt on Sochan unless it means I get to keep the Spurs 26 or Atlanta 27 pick, as Jeremy still has the potential to become a pretty good defensive player in this league. I assume Ainge would rather have the pick.

[DPG21920]

Most I would do, assuming Lauri commits to an extension:

Keldon + CHI Pick + MIN 31 + MIN 30 Swap + DAL Swap + 2027 Spurs top 10 protected

Something like that.

[tbdog]

Just as a hypothetical question, let's suppose that KAT were available and the wolves are imploding

How much in draft capital would you be willing to pay for KAT? Because what I keep hearing about KAT is that he's a loser on a bloated contract that's not really worth trading for because he can't play defense, while he's on a 4/220 contract starting next year while Markannen will be looking for a 4/212 contract after next year

By most measures KAT has been the superior player to Markannen for their entire career. KAT has an argument to be as a good a 3 point shooter as Markannen. Is it the higher volume of 3s and the 3 year age difference that makes Markannen a superior hypothetical target? Just trying to get some perspective.

A really good comparison that I have never thought of. Towns is kinda in his prime now and has been surpassed by Ant as the best player. Plus Gobert proved he is more valuable to the Twolves than Towns is now. I think Lauri game goes with more teams. He can play spot minutes at the 3 as well if for some reason you need to go really big. Lauri shot is quicker. Towns more skilled.

[R. DeMurre]

Just for perspective, I think the other thing people have forgotten is that Utah was predicted to be possibly the worst team in the league after trading Gobert and Mitchell, to be unabashedly tanking, and to have the lead on a chance to land Wembanyama... Lauri, as their undisputed leading impact player, led them to a very surprising 37-45 record after most pundits had predicted they'd be challenging for dead last and have a record more along the lines of the Spurs, Rockets, or Pistons, who finished with 22, 22, and 17 wins that year.

[Gandalf]

Most I would do, assuming Lauri commits to an extension:

Keldon + CHI Pick + MIN 31 + MIN 30 Swap + DAL Swap + 2027 Spurs top 10 protected

Something like that.

Even that’s a lot of the long-term flexibility I’d prefer to keep (that Dallas swap could be valuable). I might just prefer to wait for him to hit free agency, even if that’s uncertain.

[scott]

The real prize is in 2028, when Ant request a trade. The Spurs call, 'we have your picks.'

Ainge calls and says "we have your more immediate picks". Fuckin' Ainge, man.

[scott]

Most I would do, assuming Lauri commits to an extension:

Keldon + CHI Pick + MIN 31 + MIN 30 Swap + DAL Swap + 2027 Spurs top 10 protected

Something like that.

Another reminder, you cannot trade other team's swaps. What you propose would have to be:

Keldon + CHI Pick + MIN 31 + SA30 (with MIN & DAL swaps attached) + SA27 (Top10). This might be what you meant, but just wanted to clarify for all readers.

[cjw]

The real prize is in 2028, when Ant request a trade. The Spurs call, 'we have your picks.'

Even if San Antonio isn’t the Ant destination, the Spurs would have insane leverage at this point in time to extract a king’s ransom in a deal. Or they could simply stand pat.

[spurs10]

Well I hope we hear something tomorrow. For me the thought of CP, Lauri, Vassell, Wemby, and perhaps Castle for his D sounds good to me.

[DPG21920]

Another reminder, you cannot trade other team's swaps. What you propose would have to be:

Keldon + CHI Pick + MIN 31 + SA30 (with MIN & DAL swaps attached) + SA27 (Top10). This might be what you meant, but just wanted to clarify for all readers.

Ya - just meant the “function”

[sfernald]

My gut is telling me it’s between Spurs and Okc. Who’s got the balls to step up and pay Ainge’s fee?

In terms of players can we beat:

Topic (perfect pg for Utah)
Wallace (3&D guard)
Dieng (GLeague Finals MVP / Tidjane Clone)

???

is Keldon, Wesley, Branham comparable? I would hate to give up Sochan!

[scott]

Does Utah even care that much about the players? If I were Utah I'd focus on this lineup, race for the bottom and try to get their superstar next year:

Collier
George
Cody Williams
Hendricks
Kessler

All 1st, 2nd, and 3rd year players... sell the fanbase on the exciting youth. TBH, that's way more of an exciting tank lineup than what we trotted out to get Wemby.

[DAF86]

Does Utah even care that much about the players? If I were Utah I'd focus on this lineup, race for the bottom and try to get their superstar next year:

Collier
George
Cody Williams
Hendricks
Kessler

All 1st, 2nd, and 3rd year players... sell the fanbase on the exciting youth. TBH, that's way more of an exciting tank lineup than what we trotted out to get Wemby.

I guess they would care in the case of a Topic, where essentially is just another first round pick.

[Pauleta14]

My gut is telling me it’s between Spurs and Okc. Who’s got the balls to step up and pay Ainge’s fee?

In terms of players can we beat:

Topic (perfect pg for Utah)
Wallace (3&D guard)
Dieng (GLeague Finals MVP / Tidjane Clone)

???

is Keldon, Wesley, Branham comparable? I would hate to give up Sochan!


You have to give up some value back, I'd rather Sochan than Vassell or Castle

[Mr. Body]

Does Utah even care that much about the players? If I were Utah I'd focus on this lineup, race for the bottom and try to get their superstar next year:

Collier
George
Cody Williams
Hendricks
Kessler

All 1st, 2nd, and 3rd year players... sell the fanbase on the exciting youth. TBH, that's way more of an exciting tank lineup than what we trotted out to get Wemby.

That team would lose every game they played.

[mystargtr34]

KAT is cultural poison. I don't want Wemby catching the gay voice

For real. KAT just annoys the shit out of me. I don’t ever want that guy near the Spurs.

Way too zesty and feminine. It would rub off on the rest of the players. Soon he’ll be painting his fuckin nails and dancing like a moron on TikTok like Jared McCain.

[Arguendo]

Careful, you're going to get a bunch of knee-jerk braindead takes like "no thanks, KAT is a career loser".


KAT is a better treadmill centerpiece than Lauri. Made the POs once in his first 6 years, then the past 3 years when Ant came and took the reigns.
He's a great regular season stat stuffer. He does everything pretty well, including D (until he doesn't), he's huge, he can dibble/pass/shoot, he's got every tool and stat to get multiple max deals.

The problem is, he makes unbelievable mistakes, over and over. Terrible fouls, will take/keep taking bad shots, be way out of position/miss rotations, he doesn't learn and he often hurts in team in the biggest moments, especially when frustrated. Unforgivable things for a 9 year, 4x AS, 2x All-NBA vet.
KAT will look like he put it together, then will pick up 2-3 awful fouls in 60 seconds, or brick 7 threes in a row and lose you a game. He does that repeatedly and does in it big moments. But his stat line that night may be 24-14-9

To me, he is a negative asset for a winning Team because he costs 30% of the cap. He will help you get there and his mistakes mean way less during the reg season, but then he'll kill your season when it matters most.

As an owner who's not concerned with winning a championship, I'd give up lots of assets, as he'll make All-Star teams and sell jerseys and get butts in the seat.

As someone who wants to win, I'd have no interest in paying him 30% of the cap to shit-in-the-punch-bowl at the worst possible time (again). I wouldn't give up any assets on a max deal. Rather have a role player. KAT is the perfect WTF player cause if he could just not be an idiot-in game at the worst time- he does everything.

[mystargtr34]

KAT 💅 and Lauri have some similarities in their game but they’re very different also.

KAT 💅 is more of a C masquerading as a PF. He’s too slow footed and cumbersome to really guard 4’s. I mean it looks like it hurts when he runs and tries to slide his feet on the perimeter.

Lauri is a true 4 who can also play the 3 a little. He’s much more fleet footed and glides around the court easily. He’s also a much better cutter and off ball player.

A 4/3 like Lauri is a much better fit next to Wemby than a 5/4 like KAT 💅.

[Knoxxx]

5 first round picks for LM:

https://www.poundingtherock.com/2024/7/1/24189976/rumor-san-antonio-spurs-interested-in-trading-for-lauri-markkanen-utah-jazz-golden-state-warriors

[scott]

That team would lose every game they played.

That's kind of the point, boy genius

[Wilt Chamberlain]

5 first round picks for LM:

https://www.poundingtherock.com/2024/7/1/24189976/rumor-san-antonio-spurs-interested-in-trading-for-lauri-markkanen-utah-jazz-golden-state-warriors

The Knicks and Bucks pick are the FRP the Nets got. That means all 6 of those picks are from 50+ win teams.

The Spurs have 3 Atlanta picks that have a great shot to be a bottom quarter team for all 3 years after they traded away an all star. That means top 10 and a shot at the first overall. The 2025 Atlanta pick alone is worth about 6 late first round picks or near that.

[Ariel]

The Knicks and Bucks pick are the FRP the Nets got. That means all 6 of those picks are from 50+ win teams.

The Spurs have 3 Atlanta picks that have a great shot to be a bottom quarter team for all 3 years after they traded away an all star. That means top 10 and a shot at the first overall. The 2025 Atlanta pick alone is worth about 6 late first round picks or near that.
Really, that rhetoric about x number of picks is tiring, but people are so hung up on it that maybe Spurs should sell OKC one of their high upside picks for 5 crappy ones to inflate a trade package.

[kobyz]

Sounds like Lauri is getting dealt and presumably any team that gets him will have a verbal agreement in place for a deal next summer. Either the Spurs get him now or probably never.

First Trae Young wasn't worth it and now Lauri isn't worth it. By this years trade deadline another young star will be probably be available and they wont be worth it either.

The Spurs aren't getting Luka/Giannis and those leftover fantasies are a big reason why people are so stingy about other star players.


Sounds like Lauri is getting dealt and presumably any team that gets him will have a verbal agreement in place for a deal next summer. Either the Spurs get him now or probably never.

First Trae Young wasn't worth it and now Lauri isn't worth it. By this years trade deadline another young star will be probably be available and they wont be worth it either.

The Spurs aren't getting Luka/Giannis and those leftover fantasies are a big reason why people are so stingy about other star players.

Spurs just need to indicate to his agent that they plan to sign him next summer and then he won't sign any extension and by not signing extension he push Utah to trade him to Spurs at lower price

[kobyz]

Most I would do, assuming Lauri commits to an extension:

Keldon + CHI Pick + MIN 31 + MIN 30 Swap + DAL Swap + 2027 Spurs top 10 protected

Something like that.

Way too much with no need, as you can wait to next summer to sign him straight up

[Mr. Body]

Markkanen really is closer to Dejounte in terms of what he should get in trade. People treating him like he's Kevin Durant.

Not to mention the huge contract he'll be getting wilt Murray's contract is incredible.

Two FRPs. A Keldon. That's about it and probably overpay given the bad contract he turns into next year.

[JPB]

Most I would do, assuming Lauri commits to an extension:

Keldon + CHI Pick + MIN 31 + MIN 30 Swap + DAL Swap + 2027 Spurs top 10 protected

Something like that.

Then you wouldn't get him.. Sorry, but Ainge is rolling his eyes at that offer, and you would too if you were him. Utah gotta eat too and that trade is irrealistically loopsided for SA. It barely hurt for the spurs, meaning there's a problem. CHI + A couple of very far swaps and picks and a top 10 2027 protected FRP (probably in the 20s) are a weak package. Doesn't really help the Jazz to rebuild. And Keldon doesn't change much to that trade.

You won't get Lauri unless it does really hurt you, and not just a bit. We should see big offers for him in the next days and week

[exstatic]

Or we could just be patsies in a 3 team deal that send Lauri to OKC:

https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/10126630-a-3-team-trade-to-move-lauri-markkanen-during-nba-free-agency.amp.html

:lol. Fuck that. We take salary that needs to be absorbed for the deal to work, AND we send out picks? We should be receiving picks for that.

[FireMicoHalili]

Well I hope we hear something tomorrow. For me the thought of Castle for his D sounds good to me.
Zesty. Just like KAT.

[ginobilized]

Does Utah even care that much about the players? If I were Utah I'd focus on this lineup, race for the bottom and try to get their superstar next year:

Collier
George
Cody Williams
Hendricks
Kessler

All 1st, 2nd, and 3rd year players... sell the fanbase on the exciting youth. TBH, that's way more of an exciting tank lineup than what we trotted out to get Wemby.

Imagine the contributions that Zollins and Branham could make to that squad.......

[Knoxxx]

:lol. Fuck that. We take salary that needs to be absorbed for the deal to work, AND we send out picks? We should be receiving picks for that.

I perceived that was cooked up by an OKC fan and the same trash was circulating this AM on my MSN feed. Also today, LM to Spurs is noted as a championship contending move:

Spurs Tracking Lauri Markkanen (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/other/spurs-tracking-lauri-markkanen/ar-BB1peugg?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=e47db2dff22a45f29bc263a8962598c0&ei=9)

[Knoxxx]

Imagine the contributions that Zollins and Branham could make to that squad.......

You forgot to mention Wesley and Graham. Actually seems like Zollins is going to become more and more valuable as an expiring.

[Raven]

i wouldn't even give one first round pick lol

[Obstructed_View]

They can't use all those picks. They have value only if you don't waste them.

[Knoxxx]

They can't use all those picks. They have value only if you don't waste them.

Agreed, we got too many picks. We just found that out last draft when we traded Dilly on draft night and agitated the entire fan base.

[Mr. Body]

That's kind of the point, boy genius

Yeah, I know. I meant EVERY game they played. I'm trying to think of the lowest level they could play in and might actually win.

[Obstructed_View]

Agreed, we got too many picks. We just found that out last draft when we traded Dilly on draft night and agitated the entire fan base.
True, but there is some justification for the fans being annoyed. The Spurs traded away one of the highest draft picks in the history of the franchise, ostensibly because they didn't have room on the roster, then followed that up by drafting two guys in the second round.

[4lifecowboy]

Spurs just need to indicate to his agent that they plan to sign him next summer and then he won't sign any extension and by not signing extension he push Utah to trade him to Spurs at lower price

Exactly, I'm not giving up 5 draft picks for someone I could get for free in a year. 2 max and they are not going to be ATL's nor ours. Lauri needs better representation if he going to let Utah sell him to the highest bidder.

[vy65]

I don't understand why people think that Lauri is going to be available as a FA in a year. It's in his interest to work with Utah to either secure an extension with them (not too likely imo) or to facilitate a trade to a destination where he would be willing to sign an extension. In neither of those scenarios is he going to test the FA market. From my (limited) understanding of the CBA, him testing the FA market will cost him a significant chunk of change. It would be more in his interest to agree to an extension with Utah and then try to push his way out in a year or two's time a la Harden, Kawhi, etc...

[Mr. Body]

I don't understand why people think that Lauri is going to be available as a FA in a year. It's in his interest to work with Utah to either secure an extension with them (not too likely imo) or to facilitate a trade to a destination where he would be willing to sign an extension. In neither of those scenarios is he going to test the FA market. From my (limited) understanding of the CBA, him testing the FA market will cost him a significant chunk of change. It would be more in his interest to agree to an extension with Utah and then try to push his way out in a year or two's time a la Harden, Kawhi, etc...

So when he's 29? He's gonna get stuck in Utah. Probably fine with him, as I don't think we've ever heard him actually wanting to be competitive. Rich and in a cold climate might be fine with him.

[kobyz]

I don't understand why people think that Lauri is going to be available as a FA in a year. It's in his interest to work with Utah to either secure an extension with them (not too likely imo) or to facilitate a trade to a destination where he would be willing to sign an extension. In neither of those scenarios is he going to test the FA market. From my (limited) understanding of the CBA, him testing the FA market will cost him a significant chunk of change. It would be more in his interest to agree to an extension with Utah and then try to push his way out in a year or two's time a la Harden, Kawhi, etc...

He wants to find a good situation for him and that is the Spurs, it's not reasonable for him to sign extension with a team who trade for him other than the Spurs

[BacktoBasics]

This guys next contract feels like the kinda contract you give a guy who should be the 2nd option that propels you to a championship but falls short and becomes difficult to move or come off of.

[Mr. Body]

Here's the thing with Lauri Markkanen...

For his entire career he's fluctuated between playing 50 and 66 games a year, with most of them closer to 50 and 52. Sure, Ainge may have forced Hardy to sit him for the tank last year, but he still only played 55 games. But that's not the thing.

He's on an expiring contract and can be had via free agency next year. Sure, he may want to max out with the Jazz, at which point he's maybe even less valuable in terms of what it would take to acquire him (assets, not salary). But then a maxed Lauri is questionable value. But that's not the thing.

He's never been in the playoffs. When he was in Chicago, they were bad. When they moved him, boom, playoffs. Cavaliers were bad with him. Next year when he was gone, boom, playoffs. Sure, that's not entirely his fault, but he don't impact winning, does he? But that's not the thing.

Here's the thing. At Chicago and Cleveland, he was around 14.8 ppg 5.7 rpg. (He was actually getting worse from earlier in his career.) At Utah, he is around 23.2 ppg and 8.2 rpg. What changed? Minutes went up and takes way more shots, about 2 more threes a game and 5 more twos a game. His shooting percentages have remained the same.

THAT is the thing. He turned into a single year All-Star (not last year) because his volume and usage went way up. He was still the same player, just more of it. On an actual contending team, one hoping for playoff runs, he's not getting the same amount of #1 option run. He's going back to those 14 ppg 5 rpg numbers. At best. With poor defense and bad assist rates.

He is VERY similar to Dejounte in getting a reserve All-Star appearance on the back of high stats on a terrible team, then becoming mediocre when he had to play alongside a better player.

Do you want to trade a lot of assets and pay $45 million a year for a guy who is getting you 14 ppg and 5 rpg? I don't.

[Kevin]

I love how people hold a lack of winning against other teams players yet somehow this criticism never applies to Spurs players. Keldon and Dev have won exactly squat and it doesn't negatively impact their value whatsoever. This 'he's never won anything' criticism was used against Trae Young as well as Lauri. The double standard is fascinating because Trea and Lauri are objectively better players who have objective won more games than Keldon and Dev.

'But Dev and Keldon played on bad teams so its not their fault' yet another double standard.

[Mugen]

Lauri has had a good coach the last few years while Devin/Keldon play for one of the worst ones in the league. So I do think that's a valid knock against Lauri tbh.

[Mr. Body]

I love how people hold a lack of winning against other teams players yet somehow this criticism never applies to Spurs players. Keldon and Dev have won exactly squat and it doesn't negatively impact their value whatsoever. This 'he's never won anything' criticism was used against Trae Young as well as Lauri. The double standard is fascinating because Trea and Lauri are objectively better players who have objective won more games than Keldon and Dev.

'But Dev and Keldon played on bad teams so its not their fault' yet another double standard.

If we were talking about trading multiple picks for Keldon or Dev, then you'd have a point.

[Mr. Body]

And then I literally say in my post that him not factoring into winning is NOT the point I'm making.

[objective]

Locked on Jazz today was just speculating on what kind of offers from Golden State or San Antonio would be "might have to take" kind of deals that the Jazz might not be able to say 'no' to.

The Spurs side? Vassell and 4 first round picks

Just nonsense, drastic overpay that shouldn't even cross the Spurs minds

[R. DeMurre]

Here's the thing with Lauri Markkanen...

For his entire career he's fluctuated between playing 50 and 66 games a year, with most of them closer to 50 and 52. Sure, Ainge may have forced Hardy to sit him for the tank last year, but he still only played 55 games. But that's not the thing.

He's on an expiring contract and can be had via free agency next year. Sure, he may want to max out with the Jazz, at which point he's maybe even less valuable in terms of what it would take to acquire him (assets, not salary). But then a maxed Lauri is questionable value. But that's not the thing.

He's never been in the playoffs. When he was in Chicago, they were bad. When they moved him, boom, playoffs. Cavaliers were bad with him. Next year when he was gone, boom, playoffs. Sure, that's not entirely his fault, but he don't impact winning, does he? But that's not the thing.

Here's the thing. At Chicago and Cleveland, he was around 14.8 ppg 5.7 rpg. (He was actually getting worse from earlier in his career.) At Utah, he is around 23.2 ppg and 8.2 rpg. What changed? Minutes went up and takes way more shots, about 2 more threes a game and 5 more twos a game. His shooting percentages have remained the same.

THAT is the thing. He turned into a single year All-Star (not last year) because his volume and usage went way up. He was still the same player, just more of it. On an actual contending team, one hoping for playoff runs, he's not getting the same amount of #1 option run. He's going back to those 14 ppg 5 rpg numbers. At best. With poor defense and bad assist rates.

He is VERY similar to Dejounte in getting a reserve All-Star appearance on the back of high stats on a terrible team, then becoming mediocre when he had to play alongside a better player.

Do you want to trade a lot of assets and pay $45 million a year for a guy who is getting you 14 ppg and 5 rpg? I don't.


You're just throwing out examples with no context and constantly avoiding any facts that go against your dislike of him. I get it if you're just not a fan, but the way you argue it is so obviously disingenuous. Using your approach, I could say that Cleveland had 22 wins in '21 and 44 wins in '22, which was the only year Markkanen was in Cleveland. If you gave an honest assessment of his positives and negatives and then concluded that the negatives were more numerous, I'd respectfully disagree, but instead you're the unobjective guy who says a good comp for Lauri is Gabe Vincent, which is just terrible analysis that I'm sure even you don't truly believe.

[JPB]

He wants to find a good situation for him and that is the Spurs, it's not reasonable for him to sign extension with a team who trade for him other than the Spurs

You guys :lol

[vy65]

If we were talking about trading multiple picks for Keldon or Dev, then you'd have a point.

So you don't think Dev is worth two FRP? What about Keldon? Or Malachi or Blake? If they're not worth much, then why is PATFO doubling down on them as their "talented core?"

[LeBowen]

Here's the thing with Lauri Markkanen...


Yeah, let's see...


For his entire career he's fluctuated between playing 50 and 66 games a year, with most of them closer to 50 and 52. Sure, Ainge may have forced Hardy to sit him for the tank last year, but he still only played 55 games. But that's not the thing.

He got shut down two seasons in a row.
Before that he had arguably the most illness reports I've seen for a player and had one too many COVID protocols.
His only serious issues were back in 2018 and ankle in 2020.



He's on an expiring contract and can be had via free agency next year. Sure, he may want to max out with the Jazz, at which point he's maybe even less valuable in terms of what it would take to acquire him (assets, not salary). But then a maxed Lauri is questionable value. But that's not the thing.

No, he can't.
You can argue that he can be had for cheaper at the deadline if he refuses to extend, but he can't be had via free agency.
Out of all the GMs, Ainge is the last one who's going to allow an all-star walk.
No team will trade for him without a future deal in place. And you bet there's going to be a team that does it.


He's never been in the playoffs. When he was in Chicago, they were bad. When they moved him, boom, playoffs. Cavaliers were bad with him. Next year when he was gone, boom, playoffs. Sure, that's not entirely his fault, but he don't impact winning, does he? But that's not the thing.

Yeah, It's his fault he was coached by Jim Boylen and had a horrible team.
It's also his fault Bulls got four good players and a new coach in the off-season they traded him away.

Cavs put him in those ridiculous lineups at SF, with two non-shooting bigs. Took away his advantages on both ends of the floor.
It's not his fault he didn't have a bigger role.

You can't impact winning if you're not given the chance. He's an off ball player, he doesn't take the ball and get any shot he wants. His usage was low because coaches didn't know how to utilize him.


Here's the thing. At Chicago and Cleveland, he was around 14.8 ppg 5.7 rpg. (He was actually getting worse from earlier in his career.) At Utah, he is around 23.2 ppg and 8.2 rpg. What changed? Minutes went up and takes way more shots, about 2 more threes a game and 5 more twos a game. His shooting percentages have remained the same.


Are you really going to have this as an argument against Markkanen and not in his favor?
Who would've thought that giving more minutes and shots to a good player would result in better stats.
If a player improves his ppg by 10 without losing efficency, don't you think it was a good decision to give him a bigger role?


THAT is the thing. He turned into a single year All-Star (not last year) because his volume and usage went way up. He was still the same player, just more of it. On an actual contending team, one hoping for playoff runs, he's not getting the same amount of #1 option run. He's going back to those 14 ppg 5 rpg numbers. At best. With poor defense and bad assist rates.

Yeah, because only chuckers needs 16 shots to score 24 points.
It's such a bad thing to give 16 shots to a 7 footer shooting 40% from deep on 8 attempts.
God forbid taking the ball away from better offensive players like Jeremy Sochan.


He is VERY similar to Dejounte in getting a reserve All-Star appearance on the back of high stats on a terrible team, then becoming mediocre when he had to play alongside a better player.

You're just changing narratives and strawmanning everything the way you see it fit.
You keep talking Trae is horrible and Dejounte is mediocre, with the rest of Hawks roster being trash, how weren't they at the bottom of the conference, then?

Narratives of not impacting winning can be used against players who have enough usage to show if they can actually win games.
Kind of how Brunson never got a chance with the Mavs.

The other day I posed the stats, in his two seasons with the Jazz they're at 45% winrate with him and 32% without him.
How is that not impacting winning?

For example when Cavs replaced him with Mitchell, they only got 7 more wins in the following season.


Do you want to trade a lot of assets and pay $45 million a year for a guy who is getting you 14 ppg and 5 rpg? I don't.

Honestly? You're just a moron.
A contrarian for the sake of being a contrarian.
Just think about it for a second, if the entire fucking board is against you in almost every possible topic, did it ever occur to you that maybe, just maybe, you're the idiot and not all of us?
And when you're wrong, you just start embarrassing yourself.
You simply can't ever accept you're not right.
Markkanen trade would have some reasonable concerns, but you pushing this nonsensical narrative of trading for a 14/5 player just makes you look like a moron and invalidates every single point you're trying to make.

There's nothing worse than people who not only can't accept when they're wrong, but dig themselves even deeper with absolute nonsense that makes you look like a full blown retard.
I honestly can't get over how idiotic you act.
How did you last in here for 20 years without being banned?
Any forum with decent moderation would ban a user like yourself a long time ago.

Some weeks ago when I made an in-depth post about how Jeremy's efficency is awful in every aspect of the game, you straight up had a breakdown and kept calling me an idiot.
But now you come and post this nonsense about trading for a 14/5 player.
You're going to be the first person I've ever ignored in here, you're just that dense and hopeless. If you had any self-awareness, you'd be ashamed of yourself.

[exstatic]

Yeah, I know. I meant EVERY game they played. I'm trying to think of the lowest level they could play in and might actually win.

Hyperbole. The worst fucking NBA team of all time still won 9 games. With the worst defense in history, we won 22 games.

[The Truth #6]

I think they are focusing on Castle next year before making any big moves, and I don't see them making any huge trades, possibly ever. I think we all expect them to finally make a move at some point with all these assets, but I'm not holding out my breath. I think a lot of the big trades usually do backfire, so it's an inherently tough situation.

[exstatic]

I don't understand why people think that Lauri is going to be available as a FA in a year. It's in his interest to work with Utah to either secure an extension with them (not too likely imo) or to facilitate a trade to a destination where he would be willing to sign an extension. In neither of those scenarios is he going to test the FA market. From my (limited) understanding of the CBA, him testing the FA market will cost him a significant chunk of change. It would be more in his interest to agree to an extension with Utah and then try to push his way out in a year or two's time a la Harden, Kawhi, etc...

Did anyone think PG13 would ACTUALLY hit free agency this summer? The new CBA with the punitive financial aprons means that times are changing.

[vy65]

To put the absurdity of what Body is saying into light:

Devin Vassell:
Vorp: 1.1
Win Shares: 3.6
OBPM/DBPM: .9/-.9

Lauri
Vorp 2.6
Win Shares: 6.2
OBPM/DBPM: 5.1/-1.5

[vy65]

Did anyone think PG13 would ACTUALLY hit free agency this summer? The new CBA with the punitive financial aprons means that times are changing.

Yes, I think plenty thought he would once it became evident he wouldn't sign an extension with LAC

[LeBowen]

I think they are focusing on Castle next year before making any big moves, and I don't see them making any huge trades, possibly ever. I think we all expect them to finally make a move at some point with all these assets, but I'm not holding out my breath. I think a lot of the big trades usually do backfire, so it's an inherently tough situation.

The issue is that we simply need to get one good forward to stretch the floor.
Doesn't have to be Markkanen or another big name, but we need something.

I'd honestly take someone like Fontecchio, just get us reliable shooting.
Or Bogdanovic's expiring from the Nets.

I can understand not trying to win at all costs, but going into the season with yet another dysfunctional roster would be really bad.

[R. DeMurre]

The most egregious example is saying that Markkanen's stats only went up in his first year in Utah because his shots and usage rates went up, but completely ignoring the incredibly relevant fact that his efficiency also skyrocketed, with his TS% going from 58% to 64%. So your argument becomes that all he did was shoot much more at a much greater success rate-- pfft! anyone can do that!

[exstatic]

Yes, I think plenty thought he would once it became evident he wouldn't sign an extension with LAC
Last summer, one year out like Lauri is, you’d have said there was no way he’d hit FA, because that’s your mind set.

[vy65]

Last summer, one year out like Lauri is, you’d have said there was no way he’d hit FA, because that’s your mind set.

Pretty impressive you know what I would have speculated about the future a year ago

[BacktoBasics]

You're just throwing out examples with no context and constantly avoiding any facts that go against your dislike of him. I get it if you're just not a fan, but the way you argue it is so obviously disingenuous. Using your approach, I could say that Cleveland had 22 wins in '21 and 44 wins in '22, which was the only year Markkanen was in Cleveland. If you gave an honest assessment of his positives and negatives and then concluded that the negatives were more numerous, I'd respectfully disagree, but instead you're the unobjective guy who says a good comp for Lauri is Gabe Vincent, which is just terrible analysis that I'm sure even you don't truly believe.

I'll be honest. It looked like plenty of context to me. He hasn't impacted winning and statistically only improved as his usage went up on a team that was horrible and had no other offensive options to help carry the load. Will he revert back to 14 and 5 on a team like ours where Wemby and Vassell can help shoulder the load? Possibly. But he brings up the real question about paying 45 million to someone who would put up Vassell like numbers and I don't think any of us want to get into that kind of money if its not going to be going to a legitimate all star.

Its a fair argument since the guy hasn't done anything.

[LeBowen]

Last summer, one year out like Lauri is, you’d have said there was no way he’d hit FA, because that’s your mind set.

Tbf, trading PG13 at the deadline wasn't an option for the Clippers.
The only way Markkanen hits free agency if he's traded for cheap at the deadline and then decides not to stay with that team.


I'll be honest. It looked like plenty of context to me. He hasn't impacted winning and statistically only improved as his usage went up on a team that was horrible and had no other offensive options to help carry the load. Will he revert back to 14 and 5 on a team like ours where Wemby and Vassell can help shoulder the load? Possibly. But he brings up the real question about paying 45 million to someone who would put up Vassell like numbers and I don't think any of us want to get into that kind of money if its not going to be going to a legitimate all star.

Its a fair argument since the guy hasn't done anything.

His style of play is his biggest upside, imo.
As close as it gets to a 7ft Klay.

He's the executioner. No nonsense, he either takes the shot, goes strong at the rim or gives up the ball.
He'll never stop it and ruin the flow of the offense.
Imo, that's exactly the player Wemby needs.

Yesterday someone mentioned Randle.
While Randle is probably a better first option, he's a way worse second or third option.
Despite his solid playmaking, he stops the ball way too much and his efficency is questionable.

If we're to get an all-star level forward who's a realistic target, there's noone better than Markkanen.
The only other option is the draft, but that would mean waiting for a year or two until we get that player and then waiting a couple more years for him to develop.
A waste of Wemby's time.
We can develop players, but while competing, like we used to do.

[R. DeMurre]

Betting that Markkanen would average 14 ppg or even under 20 ppg in a different setting would be a really bad bet... I don't buy that prediction one bit. Again, if you don't like the guy, that's fine. But these scenarios where people think the evidence of the last two years and his becoming one of the most impactful scorers in the league are just completely negligible are wild.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

I'll be honest. It looked like plenty of context to me. He hasn't impacted winning and statistically only improved as his usage went up on a team that was horrible and had no other offensive options to help carry the load. Will he revert back to 14 and 5 on a team like ours where Wemby and Vassell can help shoulder the load? Possibly. But he brings up the real question about paying 45 million to someone who would put up Vassell like numbers and I don't think any of us want to get into that kind of money if its not going to be going to a legitimate all star.

Its a fair argument since the guy hasn't done anything.

There are question marks about him, of course. Very few players have none and they're never available. You can't sit and wait for years for the perfect superstar to become available to you on the perfect contract. This never happens, certainly not for small market teams.

Lauri's game is a wonderful fit for the current Spurs and ideal for Wemby specifically. Can't really compare him to Vassell, because there are a ton of 6'5 guards who can shoot, but there are very few 7 footers with legit perimeter skills just entering their primes. Sure, it can go wrong, he could be Dallas KP for example, but you have to take the chance on him. His game will also fit in any team and style so he'd be much more tradable in case he disappoints, compared to a someone like Trae Young, for example, who's incredibly ball dominant.

[Leetonidas]

The arguments about Lauri not impacting winning are silly. For one, he has always been misused until he got to Utah. Two, the teams he was on sucked anyway. And three, Utah is tanking. Would you argue Victor doesn't impact winning because the Spurs had the exact same record the prior year without him? There are other variables at play as always and distilling it down to "he doesn't impact winning" is just dumb. He got traded from dumpster fire Chicago to Cleveland and they did get better but he was stuck as a 4th option. Utah also tore down their roster that had reached its ceiling prior to trading for him so of course they got worse.

[TekXX]

As much as i want the Spurs to improve i definitely think they need to play hardball here. Utah wants lots of picks and tank next year to get Flagg, naw that don't sit right with me.

[The Truth #6]

The issue is that we simply need to get one good forward to stretch the floor.
Doesn't have to be Markkanen or another big name, but we need something.

I'd honestly take someone like Fontecchio, just get us reliable shooting.
Or Bogdanovic's expiring from the Nets.

I can understand not trying to win at all costs, but going into the season with yet another dysfunctional roster would be really bad.

I hear you. Personally, I'm just sort of having to, as a fan, separate from what I think should happen versus trying to predict what the front office will actually do. Trading away the eighth pick perhaps is smart in some scenarios, but I was under the assumption we are building through the draft and then they don't build through the draft, and I don't have much confidence in them doing a big trade, so I think next year could be rough as well. Sorry, sort of going off topic here. But back to the point. Yes I definitely agree. They need a forward who can shoot

[DR_Admiral]

Sorry if this has been brought up, but aren't you guys worried about his injury history? He has a long list of nagging soft tissue ailments - shoulder, quads, hams, back spasms.
https://www.foxsports.com/nba/lauri-markkanen-player-injuries

[spurraider21]

KAT is cultural poison. I don't want Wemby catching the gay voice
this post is a red flag

[spurraider21]

Another reminder, you cannot trade other team's swaps. What you propose would have to be:

Keldon + CHI Pick + MIN 31 + SA30 (with MIN & DAL swaps attached) + SA27 (Top10). This might be what you meant, but just wanted to clarify for all readers.
right. to clarify, you cant trade the swap itself, but you can trade your interest in that draft pick, ie if the spurs were trading their 2030 draft pick, it would be phrased as Utah receiving the best pick between San Antonio, Dallas, or Minnesota (top 1 protected). since minnesota attached that protection, if they won the 2030 lotto, that pick cant be swapped, and then the spurs would own the best pick between Dallas and SA.

now if the spurs want to trade this 2030 pick, as explained above, they can add their own protection to that if they wanted.. ie spurs trade the best of SA/Dal/Minn with top 5 protections. in that scenario, if minny won the lottery and therefore retained their pick, and dallas got the #4 overall pick, the spurs would not convey the pick in that scenario. dallas then gets whatever the spurs natural pick was

the more swaps are attached the a pick the more messy it gets

[LeBowen]

right. to clarify, you cant trade the swap itself, but you can trade your interest in that draft pick, ie if the spurs were trading their 2030 draft pick, it would be phrased as Utah receiving the best pick between San Antonio, Dallas, or Minnesota (top 1 protected). since minnesota attached that protection, if they won the 2030 lotto, that pick cant be swapped, and then the spurs would own the best pick between Dallas and SA.

now if the spurs want to trade this 2030 pick, as explained above, they can add their own protection to that if they wanted.. ie spurs trade the best of SA/Dal/Minn with top 5 protections.

Another interesting option would be trading down in this deal.
For example, giving up '26 ATL/SAS and not having a single pick in that draft might seem like too much to give up, but we could effectively trade down by taking '26 CLE/MIN in return.
Or giving up '27 ATL and getting '27 CLE back.

If this trade happens, Chicago, Charlotte and both Minnesota picks are gone.
Then it's about which other picks and players would be included.

I'd be fine as long as we still have a good '25 pick and mediocre picks after that to help us get role players.

Basically, make the next 5 years about Wemby, Markkanen, Devin, Castle and whoever we get in '25 draft.
The only way I'm trading away a '25 pick is if it's worse of ATL/SAS. Anything else we can talk about.

[VBM]

Sorry if this has been brought up, but aren't you guys worried about his injury history? He has a long list of nagging soft tissue ailments - shoulder, quads, hams, back spasms.
https://www.foxsports.com/nba/lauri-markkanen-player-injuries

Didn't stop us from paying Vassell a ton of money.

[vy65]

1808180162787168700

Kind of what I've been saying. If GSW wouldn't send Kuminga for PG13, I don't see how they do so for Lauri, in no small part because Kuminga would be one of the main reasons inducing Lauri to sign an extension. And, with the reports of Klay being upset at the notion of having to start behind Podz, I don't think Podz would be on the move either. That likely means that GSW's offer centers around Wiggins (probably their best salary-filler player) and picks. I still don't see GSW offering multiple un-protected picks, and banking on a future three of Lauri/Podz/Kuminga. If the offer for PG13 was a single unprotected pick, I really don't think their package would be better than ours.

I'd think that if SA is offering some combination of Keldon + picks, that'd be pretty competitive, if not outright better, than whatever GSW is offering. But this is all reading tea-leaves, so who the fuck knows.

[paperboy77]

The problem is Keldon plus our two best FRPs may not be agreeable to Jazz. That was one reason I suggested a player as good as Vassell, our BPA to trade, and more of our less valuable FRPs.

For sure it seems like the Jazz may not want that package. Still, for some reason it seems like teams do make trades for deals like this. On the other hand, teams are getting crazy by throwing all this first rounders for good, not great players. I guess whoever can bullshit the other right?

As for Vassell, I don't think you can trade him without defeating the purpose. Trade Vassell and we'll be looking for another Vassel.

[vy65]

I wonder if there's some threeway between SA/CHI/UTAH that involves Lauri to SA, DD to Utah, and assets to Chicago. DD would be a good mentor for some of their youth, but who knows. There could also be a more complicated fourway transaction between SA/GSW/CHI/UTAH that lands us Lauri and sends DD to GSW for something like Wiggins and crap.

[Knoxxx]

For sure it seems like the Jazz may not want that package. Still, for some reason it seems like teams do make trades for deals like this. On the other hand, teams are getting crazy by throwing all this first rounders for good, not great players. I guess whoever can bullshit the other right?

As for Vassell, I don't think you can trade him without defeating the purpose. Trade Vassell and we'll be looking for another Vassel.

If we traded Vassell, Jazz should not be expecting much more in terms of draft capital. Only suggested Vassell, as a possible means to find a deal while still retaining our most valuable future FRPs. Chances are then pretty high we find a Vassell, there is just the likely delay in developing the player to that level. But if we land high picks in 2025 lottery, those prospects and timeline improve dramatically. And the jury is still out as to whether Vassell will ever be an all star, while LM has been at that level.

[vy65]

If GSW isn't offering Kuminga or Podz, I seriously doubt Vassell is in play.

[Knoxxx]

1808180162787168700

Kind of what I've been saying. If GSW wouldn't send Kuminga for PG13, I don't see how they do so for Lauri, in no small part because Kuminga would be one of the main reasons inducing Lauri to sign an extension. And, with the reports of Klay being upset at the notion of having to start behind Podz, I don't think Podz would be on the move either. That likely means that GSW's offer centers around Wiggins (probably their best salary-filler player) and picks. I still don't see GSW offering multiple un-protected picks, and banking on a future three of Lauri/Podz/Kuminga. If the offer for PG13 was a single unprotected pick, I really don't think their package would be better than ours.

I'd think that if SA is offering some combination of Keldon + picks, that'd be pretty competitive, if not outright better, than whatever GSW is offering. But this is all reading tea-leaves, so who the fuck knows.

So from what we know, Jazz are playing the GS offer vs whatever the Spurs may be willing to offer. I guess the question then is where does that process end and Utah finally accept something, or not.

I had one other question though, could this drag on until August when LM can actually be extended? For example, SAS refuses deal until he is extended, would they announce a deal in principal before hand or not in that situation?

[Knoxxx]

If GSW isn't offering Kuminga or Podz, I seriously doubt Vassell is in play.

I guess I don't see how the two correlate. If we are willing to throw in a player while GS is not, seems like that is advantage SAS. If the info is accurate, Jazz want players back not just picks. That is better for us, since we are likely being stingy with our better picks.

[Obstructed_View]

Tbf, trading PG13 at the deadline wasn't an option for the Clippers.
The only way Markkanen hits free agency if he's traded for cheap at the deadline and then decides not to stay with that team.



His style of play is his biggest upside, imo.
As close as it gets to a 7ft Klay.

He's the executioner. No nonsense, he either takes the shot, goes strong at the rim or gives up the ball.
He'll never stop it and ruin the flow of the offense.
Imo, that's exactly the player Wemby needs.

Yesterday someone mentioned Randle.
While Randle is probably a better first option, he's a way worse second or third option.
Despite his solid playmaking, he stops the ball way too much and his efficency is questionable.

If we're to get an all-star level forward who's a realistic target, there's noone better than Markkanen.
The only other option is the draft, but that would mean waiting for a year or two until we get that player and then waiting a couple more years for him to develop.
A waste of Wemby's time.
We can develop players, but while competing, like we used to do.

Markannen is the antiDerozan.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

So from what we know, Jazz are playing the GS offer vs whatever the Spurs may be willing to offer. I guess the question then is where does that process end and Utah finally accept something, or not.

I had one other question though, could this drag on until August when LM can actually be extended? For example, SAS refuses deal until he is extended, would they announce a deal in principal before hand or not in that situation?

Teams can’t renegotiate a deal as part of a trade. If he extends with them he’ll be eligible to be traded next summer.

[vy65]

I guess I don't see how the two correlate. If we are willing to throw in a player while GS is not, seems like that is advantage SAS. If the info is accurate, Jazz want players back not just picks. That is better for us, since we are likely being stingy with our better picks.

It's the market. If Kuminga isn't in play, then the market should dictate that Vassell isn't either.

[paperboy77]

If we traded Vassell, Jazz should not be expecting much more in terms of draft capital. Only suggested Vassell, as a possible means to find a deal while still retaining our most valuable future FRPs. Chances are then pretty high we find a Vassell, there is just the likely delay in developing the player to that level. But if we land high picks in 2025 lottery, those prospects and timeline improve dramatically. And the jury is still out as to whether Vassell will ever be an all star, while LM has been at that level.

See.. you just bullshitted me in to agreeing to this.

[DPG21920]

Then you wouldn't get him.. Sorry, but Ainge is rolling his eyes at that offer, and you would too if you were him. Utah gotta eat too and that trade is irrealistically loopsided for SA. It barely hurt for the spurs, meaning there's a problem. CHI + A couple of very far swaps and picks and a top 10 2027 protected FRP (probably in the 20s) are a weak package. Doesn't really help the Jazz to rebuild. And Keldon doesn't change much to that trade.

You won't get Lauri unless it does really hurt you, and not just a bit. We should see big offers for him in the next days and week

Dont care - then UTA can keep him. But IF (we dont know that, but if) Lauri isnt going to extend UTA isnt going to get some godfather offer IMO

[LeBowen]

If we traded Vassell, Jazz should not be expecting much more in terms of draft capital. Only suggested Vassell, as a possible means to find a deal while still retaining our most valuable future FRPs. Chances are then pretty high we find a Vassell, there is just the likely delay in developing the player to that level. But if we land high picks in 2025 lottery, those prospects and timeline improve dramatically. And the jury is still out as to whether Vassell will ever be an all star, while LM has been at that level.

I'd consider trading Devin only if it's a 1:1 trade, with no relevant picks attached.
Yeah, Markkanen is a better player, but Devin is younger and his great value extension is just starting.

Devin's contract is going to be really valuable, will scale down to less than 15% of the cap in his final few years.
Even if he doesn't improve, he's a 20ppg off ball scorer and not a negative on defense. Then you look at for example Quickley get 175/5.

If we trade Devin, we'd have to get another legit shooter for the starting lineup. No point in trading for Markkanen if we're not going to actually compete right away.

[BacktoBasics]

There are question marks about him, of course. Very few players have none and they're never available. You can't sit and wait for years for the perfect superstar to become available to you on the perfect contract. This never happens, certainly not for small market teams.

Lauri's game is a wonderful fit for the current Spurs and ideal for Wemby specifically. Can't really compare him to Vassell, because there are a ton of 6'5 guards who can shoot, but there are very few 7 footers with legit perimeter skills just entering their primes. Sure, it can go wrong, he could be Dallas KP for example, but you have to take the chance on him. His game will also fit in any team and style so he'd be much more tradable in case he disappoints, compared to a someone like Trae Young, for example, who's incredibly ball dominant.

I’m not trying to be fully dismissive of Lauri. There has to be a practicality to it when you’ve got the capital.

I understand you can’t sit and wait but there’s no shortage of teams that “didn’t want to sit and wait”. They blew their wad or overpaid and now strapped with big contracts and no path forward. We see it all over the league.

Comparatively we have just witnessed OKC basically use their draft capital as a 3 year roster tryout. There was just no rush at all and they took a hard look at all their picks. There’s something to be said about doing that and preserving their cap space. Which they just used to plug a gap without having to come off of any draft capital.

[LeBowen]

Comparatively we have just witnessed OKC basically use their draft capital as a 3 year roster tryout. There was just no rush at all and they took a hard look at all their picks. There’s something to be said about doing that and preserving their cap space. Which they just used to plug a gap without having to come off of any draft capital.

The problem is that Wemby is too good to have any more tryout seasons.
I have no doubt he'll be on SGA level next season.
As long as Wemby is healthy, barring some more low-percentage luck, we're not getting any more high lottery picks.

SGA became a legit all-NBA, all-defense guard, with both of their 2022 picks hitting the ground running. Immediate impact.
We'll need Castle to have Williams-level impact if we're to actually win games without making bigger trades. With Devin and Jeremy also improving.

If they don't develop right away, we'll be on Dallas trajectory with Luka being too good, too soon.
Luckily we have way more assets than they did, but our own picks won't be worth as much. We'll have to hope Hawks picks are good.

We can't blow the load too early, but we can't prevent Wemby from being on GOAT trajectory.
It's not just about picking the right players, it's about most players, even future all-stars, taking some years to develop.
Wemby surely won't be happy if he has to wait for 5 more years before legit contention.



The leaguewide belief is that the Jazz would only consider moving Markkanen for a sizable trade package similar to what the Knicks gave up to acquire Mikal Bridges-The Warriors, Kings, Spurs, Timberwolves, and Pelicans are among the teams who’ve expressed interest in trading for Markkanen

That doesn't sound so bad.
Knicks gave up a bad contract and four picks that aren't going to be in the lottery barring a major catastrophe, with another swap and Bucks FRP.
If Spurs could get Markkanen for '25 CHI, '25 ATL, '27 SAS and two Minnesota picks while offloading Collins, it would be worth it.
('25 ATL because Trae is still going to be there and '27 SAS because we should be good by then.)

[Chinook]

In case it got buried, my spit-balling leads me to believe the Spurs could offer an $82M/2 extension to Mark if they were to trade for him now (which means he'd be renegotiated now and ectended in August or that the sides would be in complete standstill until August) , with about $15 Million accelerating to this season as part of a renegotiation. That's less than a max even accounting for it being a two-year deal, but it's not THAT far off and lets Mark pursue free agency again when he's 30. The downside is length for the Spurs. The upside is lower cap amount in 2026 to align with Vassell's and Keldon's cheapest seasons and Collins and Sochan coming off the books.

If this were the plan, how much would folks be willing to give up to get the deal done now?

[RC_Drunkford]

don't know why people are talking about trading Vassell. There's no way I'd trade him for Markkanen and neither would the Spurs. He costs half the money for the next 5 years.

[scott]

We're less than a handful of Mr. Body posts away from him telling us that if we wanted Markannen we should have just kept Furphy.

[Guru of Nothing]

Y'all can roast me for this suggestion, I don't care, but what about the Spurs sending out their 2025 1st unprotected and the same with the ATL 2025 pick - and that's it (besides salary to match). Oh what the heck, I'll throw in CHA and CHI picks too so that the media can hype 4 FIRST ROUND PICKS ZOMG! Would love to see Ainge with is hand caught in the beehive as the Spurs and Hawks make the playoffs, which I put at north of 50/50 odds. Yes, we're risking losing a generational talent (hate myself for using this overused expression), but if Lauri is getting 20, 8, and 40% 3s on volume AND the offense and defense are flowing on the floor, the Spurs will be fine AND they will still have one of the three or four best draft warchests in the league. There's risk in any deal, but Spurs could come out of this smelling like a rose. Also, I think the 26 swap and the 27 ATL pick will end up being two best picks out the three. Those don't leave the Spurs possession at all.

If Wemby does Wemby does Wemby things and Markkanen does Markannen things, then Vassell, Castle, and Sochan could soar. Heck, we might even see a revival for the word synergy. How glorious would that be?

[scott]

Re: Devin.

First off, my interested in Lauri (which should be obvious, is quite strong) is largely based on still having Devin. Wemby-Lauri-Devin with a prospect in Castle and our picks next year is what I'd call a real core to build around. As perfect a fit Lauri is to this team, I think Devin is just a perfect fit to a Wemby-Lauri 1-2 punch.

With that said, if the offer were Lauri for Devin straight up, I'd take Lauri. Lauri is a better player, and a lot more difficult to find player. Finding a Devin Vassell replacement is a LOT easier than finding a Lauri Markannen.

With THAT said, I absolutely would not do Vassell + picks for Lauri. Despite what I just said about it being easier to replace Devin, if I NEED to replace Devin, I want all those picks available to me to do so.

So, in conclusion... yeah, I would do Devin for Lauri straight up - but I do not think that option is even on the table and Utah would still ask for Devin + picks, in which case I'm out. It sucks, because Lauri is such a perfect fit (in my opinion), but giving up Devin and the warchest is one step forward, two steps back.

[Obstructed_View]

If the Spurs send out firsts, they need to send their own.

[Pauleta14]

Do you want to trade a lot of assets and pay $45 million a year for a guy who is getting you 14 ppg and 5 rpg? I don't.

No, you trade for a matchup nightmare for the rest of the league

[Pauleta14]

don't know why people are talking about trading Vassell. There's no way I'd trade him for Markkanen and neither would the Spurs. He costs half the money for the next 5 years.

Only way Vassell is involved is to save all ATL's and Spurs 1RPs imo

Something like players swap + filers

(I think it'd be a bad idea)

[Chinook]

I wouldn't trade Vassell for Mark at all. Total deal-breaker.

[baseline bum]

Y'all can roast me for this suggestion, I don't care, but what about the Spurs sending out their 2025 1st unprotected and the same with the ATL 2025 pick - and that's it (besides salary to match). Oh what the heck, I'll throw in CHA and CHI picks too so that the media can hype 4 FIRST ROUND PICKS ZOMG! Would love to see Ainge with is hand caught in the beehive as the Spurs and Hawks make the playoffs, which I put at north of 50/50 odds. Yes, we're risking losing a generational talent (hate myself for using this overused expression), but if Lauri is getting 20, 8, and 40% 3s on volume AND the offense and defense are flowing on the floor, the Spurs will be fine AND they will still have one of the three or four best draft warchests in the league. There's risk in any deal, but Spurs could come out of this smelling like a rose. Also, I think the 26 swap and the 27 ATL pick will end up being two best picks out the three. Those don't leave the Spurs possession at all.

If Wemby does Wemby does Wemby things and Markkanen does Markannen things, then Vassell, Castle, and Sochan could soar. Heck, we might even see a revival for the word synergy. How glorious would that be?

I don't really buy Atlanta making the playoffs unless you believe Miami is going to move Butler and tear it all down.

[LittleCriminal]

Why not just go after KD instead?

[Guru of Nothing]

I don't really buy Atlanta making the playoffs unless you believe Miami is going to move Butler and tear it all down.

Teams (especially in the east) will be heavily incentivized to tank, but the Hawks will not be one of those teams. It's going to look like It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad Game, with everyone frantically racing around to discover treasure buring under a huge 'L'. I could easily be wrong, but I think it's a solid gamble.

[CGD]

In case it got buried, my spit-balling leads me to believe the Spurs could offer an $82M/2 extension to Mark if they were to trade for him now (which means he'd be renegotiated now and ectended in August or that the sides would be in complete standstill until August) , with about $15 Million accelerating to this season as part of a renegotiation. That's less than a max even accounting for it being a two-year deal, but it's not THAT far off and lets Mark pursue free agency again when he's 30. The downside is length for the Spurs. The upside is lower cap amount in 2026 to align with Vassell's and Keldon's cheapest seasons and Collins and Sochan coming off the books.

If this were the plan, how much would folks be willing to give up to get the deal done now?

I'd want to know who the Spurs are competing against first. All the teams rumored to be interested have hurdles to landing Markenen. KAT and Ingram packages seem interesting on paper, but Utah already saying they want an "Bridges-type" offer (read: shit ton of picks, not players). GSW has a young player that might first Utah's timeline, in Kuminga, but they just made clear they wouldn't move him for Paul George.

So start from the position of what's the best offers Warriors, Kings, Timberwolves, and Pelicans can muster? We can go from there.

[LeBowen]

I don't really buy Atlanta making the playoffs unless you believe Miami is going to move Butler and tear it all down.

Someone has to make the playoffs. :rollin

Celtics, Knicks, Bucks, Sixers, Pacers, Magic, Cavs should be in.
Hawks and Heat are TBD.
Wizards, Nets, Bulls, Pistons, Raptors and Hornets will be bad.
Maybe Hornets finally put something together and get that 10th seed, but others are blatantly tanking.

East regular season will be awful.

[scott]

Even if the 2025 picks end up #12 (ATL) and #20 (SA) in a Post-Lauri scenario, I think I still want those. Could we package those to and move up to say, #8? Get me one more solid 2025 prospect to add to the Wemby-Lauri-Devin-Castle core, and then all the picks thereafter are for role players and/or other trades.

[KobesAchilles]

Trading Vassell makes zero sense in trading for Lauri. We trade away our only 3 point shooter to get a better 3 point shooter. But lo and behold we would still have only one 3 point shooter in our starting line up. It’s KJ who should be in the package along with 4 FRPs. I would do that deal. We have shooting in 2 positions. We have defense in 3 positions and it simplifies the draft a bit going forward.

[Pauleta14]

How do you defend Lauri & Vic at the same time??

Just thinking about that makes me want to pay a stupid price tbh...

[Pauleta14]

Why not just go after KD instead?

As much as I'd love him for plenty of reasons, he's going to be 36 in Sept... (and won't cost 11M for a season)

[z0sa]

How do you defend Lauri & Vic at the same time??

Just thinking about that makes me want to pay a stupid price tbh...

It’d be like playing keepaway from kids with our two literal giants who can score from anywhere on the floor. The Lauri entry pass to Wemby from either side of the floor would be deadly enough (can’t double off Lauri at all), but then combine it with the Lauri/Wemby 4/5 screen actions? It’d be insanity. Our space and pace guys (basically CP3 and Vassell shooting with the rest of our roster cutters for the moment) would also have a lot more opportunities, too, obviously

[ambchang]

Y'all can roast me for this suggestion, I don't care, but what about the Spurs sending out their 2025 1st unprotected and the same with the ATL 2025 pick - and that's it (besides salary to match). Oh what the heck, I'll throw in CHA and CHI picks too so that the media can hype 4 FIRST ROUND PICKS ZOMG! Would love to see Ainge with is hand caught in the beehive as the Spurs and Hawks make the playoffs, which I put at north of 50/50 odds. Yes, we're risking losing a generational talent (hate myself for using this overused expression), but if Lauri is getting 20, 8, and 40% 3s on volume AND the offense and defense are flowing on the floor, the Spurs will be fine AND they will still have one of the three or four best draft warchests in the league. There's risk in any deal, but Spurs could come out of this smelling like a rose. Also, I think the 26 swap and the 27 ATL pick will end up being two best picks out the three. Those don't leave the Spurs possession at all.

If Wemby does Wemby does Wemby things and Markkanen does Markannen things, then Vassell, Castle, and Sochan could soar. Heck, we might even see a revival for the word synergy. How glorious would that be?

So we should trade two potential lottery picks in a supposedly loaded draft for a one year rental for LM, then a chance to sign him for $40M a year? Granted we can end up with Lebron and wade, or milocic and Mike sweetney, but this is a steep price to pay.

[Joseph Kony]

I wouldn't trade Vassell for Mark at all. Total deal-breaker.
Yep. Wemby goes without saying, but Vassell and Castle should be non-starters for any potential Markkanen deal imo

[kobyz]

There isn't a reason to offer more than two non lottery picks +Keldon or Collins

[Kevin]

There isn't a reason to offer more than two non lottery picks +Keldon or Collins

I can only assume this is a troll.

Warriors will offer at least one ancient or retired Steph Curry unprotected first I would imagine. A super valuable pick and fairly comparable to an ATL pick.

[TD 21]

I wouldn't trade Vassell for Mark at all. Total deal-breaker.

Yeah, it'd defeat the purpose. The problem is, the Spurs lack an expendable "good, young player" for these star trades.

It's not impossible to pull off without it obviously, but it means even more draft capital.

Insofar as he ever had it, the sheen has worn off Johnson and it never was on Sochan.


I'd want to know who the Spurs are competing against first. All the teams rumored to be interested have hurdles to landing Markenen. KAT and Ingram packages seem interesting on paper, but Utah already saying they want an "Bridges-type" offer (read: shit ton of picks, not players). GSW has a young player that might first Utah's timeline, in Kuminga, but they just made clear they wouldn't move him for Paul George.

So start from the position of what's the best offers Warriors, Kings, Timberwolves, and Pelicans can muster? We can go from there.

George is 34, Markkanen is 27. With their mediocre draft capital, if those arrogant pricks won't put him on the table, then there isn't anything to discuss.

[scott]

My favorite element of any time the Spurs are rumored to go after an actual All-Star Caliber player is the folks who think we can just build a championship caliber team on a minor league budget. Too afraid to give up draft picks, too afraid to pay anyone. Waiting for some perfect scenario where we land an All-Star on a long-term, MLE-level deal. Keep on dreamin'.

[Guru of Nothing]

So we should trade two potential lottery picks in a supposedly loaded draft for a one year rental for LM, then a chance to sign him for $40M a year? Granted we can end up with Lebron and wade, or milocic and Mike sweetney, but this is a steep price to pay.

I would add the word could to your last thought - could pay a steep price. No matter how things unfold, all choices (including doing nothing) come with the risk of swinging and missing. I'm not really in love with my suggestion, and not having Markkanen already locked into a contract is a big problem for me no matter what kind of verbal agreements are in place. But the view through my rose-colored galsses sure looks good with a lineup of Wemby, Markannen, Sochan, Vassell, and Castle looks fantastic. Just having some fun throwing ideas out there.

[baseline bum]

Yeah, it'd defeat the purpose. The problem is, the Spurs lack an expendable "good, young player" for these star trades.

It's not impossible to pull off without it obviously, but it means even more draft capital.

Insofar as he ever had it, the sheen has worn off Johnson and it never was on Sochan.



George is 34, Markkanen is 27. With their mediocre draft capital, if those arrogant pricks won't put him on the table, then there isn't anything to discuss.

Their draft capital is elite when this will be Steph Curry's age 37 season coming up. That franchise is going right back in the dumpster in 3-4 years when Curry is either washed up or retired.

[DPG21920]

My favorite element of any time the Spurs are rumored to go after an actual All-Star Caliber player is the folks who think we can just build a championship caliber team on a minor league budget. Too afraid to give up draft picks, too afraid to pay anyone. Waiting for some perfect scenario where we land an All-Star on a long-term, MLE-level deal. Keep on dreamin'.

OKC did it lol - build through draft is best way for sure I think is the main point that shapes the views you’re talking about.

[Kevin]

My favorite element of any time the Spurs are rumored to go after an actual All-Star Caliber player is the folks who think we can just build a championship caliber team on a minor league budget. Too afraid to give up draft picks, too afraid to pay anyone. Waiting for some perfect scenario where we land an All-Star on a long-term, MLE-level deal. Keep on dreamin'.

Yup even if say Castle turned into a legit star he'll command 50M by the time he reaches free agency.

Not sure who needs to hear this but even if the Spurs draft a future star he's not on a lifetime rookie deal. You gotta pay him at some point and if he's a legit star Dev money wont cut it.

[Kevin]

OKC did it lol - build through draft is best way for sure I think is the main point that shapes the views you’re talking about.

With Brian Wright drafting the OKC plan looks dubious at best.

[vy65]

Yeah, it'd defeat the purpose. The problem is, the Spurs lack an expendable "good, young player" for these star trades.

It's not impossible to pull off without it obviously, but it means even more draft capital.

Insofar as he ever had it, the sheen has worn off Johnson and it never was on Sochan.



George is 34, Markkanen is 27. With their mediocre draft capital, if those arrogant pricks won't put him on the table, then there isn't anything to discuss.

What other good young players are available? GSW did not make Kuminga available for Paul George; it'd be crazy if they'd make him available for Markannen. I doubt they'd offer Podz since they were gonna bench Klay in favor of him starting. The report I posted earlier made it sound like GSW's offer is Wiggins + unprotected 2027. I don't think that beats Keldon + 2-3 FRPS.

Otherwise, SAC isn't offering Keegan Murray for him. I don't know what MIN would offer that Utah would take.

I don't think Keldon is amazing. But part of the answer to this question is also, what other good young players are being made available for this trade?

[Kevin]

My best and final offer would be the 26 ATL pick the 31 Minny pick and the Spurs 31 pick all unprotected.

Assuming the Spurs extend Lauri for five years after this season he would still be on the 31 team so even if Wemby were to bolt, god forbid, Lauri is still on the roster raising the floor of that pick.

[RC_Drunkford]

Yup even if say Castle turned into a legit star he'll command 50M by the time he reaches free agency.

Not sure who needs to hear this but even if the Spurs draft a future star he's not on a lifetime rookie deal. You gotta pay him at some point and if he's a legit star Dev money wont cut it.

which is why it makes sense to add one star player while all those guys including Wemby are still on rookie contracts. That's where you have the money to pay that guy. And ideally you don't give him the max, but something close to it and frontload it, so it becomes a reasonable deal once the cap goes up and extensions kick in.

[LeBowen]

Their draft capital is elite when this will be Steph Curry's age 37 season coming up. That franchise is going right back in the dumpster in 3-4 years when Curry is either washed up or retired.

They're already in the dumpster.
Do they really think Markkanen moves the needle from barely being a play-in team to being legit contenders?
Especially if they give up those few young players they have.

I'd also say Markkanen isn't that good of a fit there.
Draymond simply can't play at C now that most contenders have legit bigs.
Doesn't work against Nuggets, Timberwolves, Lakers, Kings, even current Spurs would be a tough matchup for them.
Then you have Mavs with great rebounders and OKC which requires you to have rim protection or SGA/Williams just relentlessly attack the rim.

But then if you're playing Draymond and a center together, Markkanen has to go to SF, we already saw how that went.
He's not a perfect fit for every team, but is perfect for Wemby.

Current Warriors are a stage 4 cancer patient that refuses to accept they're going to die, but are trying to waste family's fortune on alternative medicine.
As amazing as Steph was, he won't be good enough to be a #1 option on an underwhelming roster at 37.
Not when there are better first options and way more stacked teams in the conference.

[Wilt Chamberlain]

Only teams with lottery picks on offer in the race are the Spurs and OKC.

GS has none, OKC has 3 max players already, and someone is telling anyone who will listen about all the interest in the trade.

[Wilt Chamberlain]

which is why it makes sense to add one star player while all those guys including Wemby are still on rookie contracts. That's where you have the money to pay that guy. And ideally you don't give him the max, but something close to it and frontload it, so it becomes a reasonable deal once the cap goes up and extensions kick in.

When does the NBC deal hit the NBA books?

[TD 21]

Their draft capital is elite when this will be Steph Curry's age 37 season coming up. That franchise is going right back in the dumpster in 3-4 years when Curry is either washed up or retired.

They're now regarded as a glamor franchise/market with ownership that has shown a willingness to spend in the past and has claimed they're opposed to tanking.

They have a much better chance of attracting a star power than most.


What other good young players are available? GSW did not make Kuminga available for Paul George; it'd be crazy if they'd make him available for Markannen. I doubt they'd offer Podz since they were gonna bench Klay in favor of him starting. The report I posted earlier made it sound like GSW's offer is Wiggins + unprotected 2027. I don't think that beats Keldon + 2-3 FRPS.


Otherwise, SAC isn't offering Keegan Murray for him. I don't know what MIN would offer that Utah would take.

I don't think Keldon is amazing. But part of the answer to this question is also, what other good young players are being made available for this trade?

George is 34, Markkanen is 27.

They're so arrogant that they probably won't offer Kuminga or Podziemski though and think Wiggins, Moody and draft capital for Markkanen and salary ballast will get it done.

The Timberwolves longshot plan would probably be a 3 team trade, where Towns goes to some team and they reroute those assets for a cheaper, younger version. Obviously not happening since Towns would have to be half salary dump at this point.

As I said, it's not impossible on the Spurs part, it'd just require draft capital similar to the Bridges trade.

[CGD]

They should open a convo with Utah with the full intention of not dealing until February (if at all). This is negotiations 101 guys. Spurs dont need this deal; Utah does. No need to do anything dumb bc of some manufactured urgency or deadline they are clearly trying to create.

If they get it that mega deal elsewhere, godspeed to them. No skin off the Spurs' back tbh.

[Kevin]

which is why it makes sense to add one star player while all those guys including Wemby are still on rookie contracts. That's where you have the money to pay that guy. And ideally you don't give him the max, but something close to it and frontload it, so it becomes a reasonable deal once the cap goes up and extensions kick in.

I've been saying this since the Trae Young rumors started at last years deadline. Time is of the essence because the surplus value of Wemby's rookie deal is a once in a lifetime windfall. But some people would rather waste it on another tryout season.

[Kindergarten Cop]

OKC did it lol - build through draft is best way for sure I think is the main point that shapes the views you’re talking about.

Sort of ... the best player on their team was acquired via draft with the Clippers using trade chips (where the top piece in that, PG, was also acquired via trade). You are correct that they didn't just resort to going big game hunting and recruiting a bunch of mercenaries though - and the depth of their team was built through the draft.

[baseline bum]

They're already in the dumpster.
Do they really think Markkanen moves the needle from barely being a play-in team to being legit contenders?
Especially if they give up those few young players they have.

I'd also say Markkanen isn't that good of a fit there.
Draymond simply can't play at C now that most contenders have legit bigs.
Doesn't work against Nuggets, Timberwolves, Lakers, Kings, even current Spurs would be a tough matchup for them.
Then you have Mavs with great rebounders and OKC which requires you to have rim protection or SGA/Williams just relentlessly attack the rim.

But then if you're playing Draymond and a center together, Markkanen has to go to SF, we already saw how that went.
He's not a perfect fit for every team, but is perfect for Wemby.

Current Warriors are a stage 4 cancer patient that refuses to accept they're going to die, but are trying to waste family's fortune on alternative medicine.
As amazing as Steph was, he won't be good enough to be a #1 option on an underwhelming roster at 37.
Not when there are better first options and way more stacked teams in the conference.

All the more reason their draft capital is elite.

[vy65]

They're so arrogant that they probably won't offer Kuminga or Podziemski though and think Wiggins, Moody and draft capital for Markkanen and salary ballast will get it done.

The Timberwolves longshot plan would probably be a 3 team trade, where Towns goes to some team and they reroute those assets for a cheaper, younger version. Obviously not happening since Towns would have to be half salary dump at this point.

As I said, it's not impossible on the Spurs part, it'd just require draft capital similar to the Bridges trade.[/FONT]

I think I mostly agree with you, particularly on the GSW part. My only point was, in comparison to all of that, I do think Keldon qualifies as "young talent," even though I'm really low on him.

[LeBowen]

They should open a convo with Utah with the full intention of not dealing until February (if at all). This is negotiations 101 guys. Spurs dont need this deal; Utah does. No need to do anything dumb bc of some manufactured urgency or deadline they are clearly trying to create.

If they get it that mega deal elsewhere, godspeed to them. No skin off the Spurs' back tbh.

Jazz owns 14 FRPs in the upcoming 5 drafts.
Losing Markkanen for cheap wouldn't be a great look, but they still have the most assets in the league after OKC.
The own both Cleveland and Minnesota long-term.

'25 picks: own, MIN, CLE.
'26 picks: own, better of MIN/CLE.
'27 picks: own, MIN, CLE, LAL (top4 protected).
'28 picks: own, CLE.
'29 picks: own, CLE, MIN (top5 protected).

With Wemby becoming an MVP-level player as soon as 25-26 season, our picks won't be that good. Mid to late teens unless we're lucky to move up.
The only good thing we'll have after '25 draft are those two Hawks picks and a completely unknown quantity in those Minnesota picks.

While it looks like we're in a great situation, we don't actually have that many great picks. Especially if Chicago blows it up completely.
We'll have Mavs and Celtics swaps, but they'll still be competing.

[scott]

OKC did it lol - build through draft is best way for sure I think is the main point that shapes the views you’re talking about.

I've said this before... but to build through the draft, you actually have to use the draft picks. Pushing them out 7 years doesn't help you get better through the draft in the meantime.

[Wilt Chamberlain]

Jazz owns 14 FRPs in the upcoming 5 drafts.
Losing Markkanen for cheap wouldn't be a great look, but they still have the most assets in the league after OKC.
The own both Cleveland and Minnesota long-term.

'25 picks: own, MIN, CLE.
'26 picks: own, better of MIN/CLE.
'27 picks: own, MIN, CLE, LAL (top4 protected).
'28 picks: own, CLE.
'29 picks: own, CLE, MIN (top5 protected).

With Wemby becoming an MVP-level player as soon as 25-26 season, our picks won't be that good. Mid to late teens unless we're lucky to move up.
The only good thing we'll have after '25 draft are those two Hawks picks and a completely unknown quantity in those Minnesota picks.

While it looks like we're in a great situation, we don't actually have that many great picks. Especially if Chicago blows it up completely.
We'll have Mavs and Celtics swaps, but they'll still be competing.

The Spurs have their own picks and the ATL picks the next 3 years.

All of those are equal or better than all those picks. Chicago pick is on par.

[baseline bum]

They're now regarded as a glamor franchise/market with ownership that has shown a willingness to spend in the past and has claimed they're opposed to tanking.


Curry is the glamor in that franchise. How glamorous have the Bulls been since Jordan left?

[TD 21]

I think I mostly agree with you, particularly on the GSW part. My only point was, in comparison to all of that, I do think Keldon qualifies as "young talent," even though I'm really low on him.

I suspect Johnson's value is neutral, in that a team like the Jazz, essentially taking it down to the studs, wouldn't have any problem taking him, but wouldn't regard him as the equivalent of a "good" 1st either.

[LeBowen]

The Spurs have their own picks and the ATL picks the next 3 years.

All of those are equal or better than all those picks. Chicago pick is on par.

Spurs own picks should drop in value from '26 onwards and be well into 20s from '27 onwards.
With Trae staying and Hawks retooling, Hawks '25 pick looks to be in late lottery, then it's up to draft luck.
Their '27 could be really valuable if Trae opts out and Risacher flops, that's the highest value pick Spurs have right now, imo.

While Mitchell did sign an extension, it's just for two extra years. Then he'll ask for a supermax at the age of 30 and Cavs will trend downwards.
Minnesota will be over the second apron next season with just 8 players on the roster, two of them being current rookies and one being 38 year old Conley on a cheap deal.
That's with NAW gone and them having to trade someone to extend Naz.
Gobert is 32 already, KAT will be getting $60M a year at 35 and they don't have a single tradeable pick after Dillingham trade. If that kid doesn't become a legit 20ppg scorer, they're also fucked. Sooner than you'd think.
And who knows what's going to happen with the Lakers in three years from now.

[Chinook]

Keldon is far more valuable on the Spurs than he is in a trade. He really shouldn't be the guy folks think of when they're looking to Mark ballast.

[DAF86]

I've been saying this since the Trae Young rumors started at last years deadline. Time is of the essence because the surplus value of Wemby's rookie deal is a once in a lifetime windfall. But some people would rather waste it on another tryout season.

Adding a playee that will become a liability when it matters doesn't help at all, tbh. The idea of adding a star player now is sound, but it has to be right one.

[Wilt Chamberlain]

Spurs own picks should drop in value from '26 onwards and be well into 20s from '27 onwards.
With Trae staying and Hawks retooling, Hawks '25 pick looks to be in late lottery, then it's up to draft luck.
Their '27 could be really valuable if Trae opts out and Risacher flops, that's the highest value pick Spurs have right now, imo.

While Mitchell did sign an extension, it's just for two extra years. Then he'll ask for a supermax at the age of 30 and Cavs will trend downwards.
Minnesota will be over the second apron next season with just 8 players on the roster, two of them being current rookies and one being 38 year old Conley on a cheap deal.
That's with NAW gone and them having to trade someone to extend Naz.
Gobert is 32 already, KAT will be getting $60M a year at 35 and they don't have a single tradeable pick after Dillingham trade. If that kid doesn't become a legit 20ppg scorer, they're also fucked. Sooner than you'd think.
And who knows what's going to happen with the Lakers in three years from now.

The 26 Spurs pick is the ATL swap. And sure the Spurs will get better but that still leaves 4 picks the Jazz are certain to covet.

[Robz4000]

Keldon is far more valuable on the Spurs than he is in a trade. He really shouldn't be the guy folks think of when they're looking to Mark ballast.

People forget he provides an important role on a cheap contract tbh. If the Spurs are better run this upcoming season could definitely see him in play for 6moty.

[spurraider21]

Keldon is far more valuable on the Spurs than he is in a trade. He really shouldn't be the guy folks think of when they're looking to Mark ballast.
yeah, this. ive been firmly aboard the "keldon will probably be moved before his contract expires" wagon, as i think his long term fit is questionable.

but he's not a bad player, and his contract is solid. i dont know exactly what is value is, but he's more than just a salary matching name of a piece of paper

[spurs10]

Jazz owns 14 FRPs in the upcoming 5 drafts.
Losing Markkanen for cheap wouldn't be a great look, but they still have the most assets in the league after OKC.
The own both Cleveland and Minnesota long-term.

'25 picks: own, MIN, CLE.
'26 picks: own, better of MIN/CLE.
'27 picks: own, MIN, CLE, LAL (top4 protected).
'28 picks: own, CLE.
'29 picks: own, CLE, MIN (top5 protected).

With Wemby becoming an MVP-level player as soon as 25-26 season, our picks won't be that good. Mid to late teens unless we're lucky to move up.
The only good thing we'll have after '25 draft are those two Hawks picks and a completely unknown quantity in those Minnesota picks.

While it looks like we're in a great situation, we don't actually have that many great picks. Especially if Chicago blows it up completely.
We'll have Mavs and Celtics swaps, but they'll still be competing. Owning all those FRPs is probably not a good sign they'd be willing to trade with us.

[spurraider21]

Owning all those FRPs is probably not a good sign they'd be willing to trade with us.
just means they need some picks after 2029

:stirpot:

[DAF86]

Meh, Keldon is kind of empty calories if we're gonna be honest with ourselves, tbh.

[LeBowen]

The 26 Spurs pick is the ATL swap. And sure the Spurs will get better but that still leaves 4 picks the Jazz are certain to covet.

'26 swap will depend on if Trae signs an extension or opts out. That will determine it's value.
Honestly, it's really hard to evaluate talent and get all the right picks.
I know it's in the past, but 7 draft selections Spurs made before Wemby aren't as valuable as Markkanen if we look at just basketball ability because Devin's team-friendly contract is great.

If PATFO was drafting on the level they did during the glory days, I wouldn't trade those picks, but nowdays they're just average at it and hoarding picks only to draft the wrong players would be horrible.
For example, I'm fine with them not wanting Dillingham due to his size, but I can guarantee you that one of those picks selected in let's say #9-20 range will become a high level starter who'd be really valuable with Wemby.
But they weren't confident enough in their evaluation who's going to become that player and were too scared to pull the trigger.

Now I'm supposed to watch some more of that for two more years and then wait for those players to develop for like three years after being drafted?
There's your 2027 headline about Wemby's camp being unhappy with Spurs front office's inability to build a legit contender around him.



People forget he provides an important role on a cheap contract tbh. If the Spurs are better run this upcoming season could definitely see him in play for 6moty.

He provides an important role because last season we had about 2.5 NBA-level players in the rotation around Wemby.
He's a high energy guy who's a great locker room presence, but that's it.
Horrible defender, streaky shooter, tunnel visions every time he attacks the basket.
We need to get rid of low IQ players. If someone values Keldon as a positive asset, he needs to go.


Owning all those FRPs is probably not a good sign they'd be willing to trade with us.

Imo, the entire trade is predicated on Markkanen's unwillingness to accept more tanking. He already said he wants to compete, regardless of where.
Jazz would have a huge war chest with some young players on the roster, go all on the two upcoming drafts and then trade for one of the next wave of unhappy superstars.

[Pauleta14]

It’d be like playing keepaway from kids with our two literal giants who can score from anywhere on the floor. The Lauri entry pass to Wemby from either side of the floor would be deadly enough (can’t double off Lauri at all), but then combine it with the Lauri/Wemby 4/5 screen actions? It’d be insanity. Our space and pace guys (basically CP3 and Vassell shooting with the rest of our roster cutters for the moment) would also have a lot more opportunities, too, obviously

I know we need to preserve our futur draft capital, be patient, step by step blabla etc

But isn't the future just here, NOW with Lauri?? Is there another similar matchup nightmare we could build in the near futur? I can't see any, unless long patience with 25' & 26' drafts

I think it's a unique opportunity that we HAVE TO seize, even at a heavy price.

[Dejounte]

Fuck the Warriors. Hopefully the Jazz choose us

[vy65]

1808267509826457961

Does this take GSW out of the game?

[Knoxxx]

One of the articles I read, probably posted I forget, said Markkanen is a championship contending move for the Spurs.

[Mr. Body]

One of the articles I read, probably posted I forget, said Markkanen is a championship contending move for the Spurs.

Good thing media never exaggerate things for clicks.

[Wilt Chamberlain]

'26 swap will depend on if Trae signs an extension or opts out. That will determine it's value.
Honestly, it's really hard to evaluate talent and get all the right picks.
I know it's in the past, but 7 draft selections Spurs made before Wemby aren't as valuable as Markkanen if we look at just basketball ability because Devin's team-friendly contract is great.

If PATFO was drafting on the level they did during the glory days, I wouldn't trade those picks, but nowdays they're just average at it and hoarding picks only to draft the wrong players would be horrible.
For example, I'm fine with them not wanting Dillingham due to his size, but I can guarantee you that one of those picks selected in let's say #9-20 range will become a high level starter who'd be really valuable with Wemby.
But they weren't confident enough in their evaluation who's going to become that player and were too scared to pull the trigger.

Now I'm supposed to watch some more of that for two more years and then wait for those players to develop for like three years after being drafted?
There's your 2027 headline about Wemby's camp being unhappy with Spurs front office's inability to build a legit contender around him.




He provides an important role because last season we had about 2.5 NBA-level players in the rotation around Wemby.
He's a high energy guy who's a great locker room presence, but that's it.
Horrible defender, streaky shooter, tunnel visions every time he attacks the basket.
We need to get rid of low IQ players. If someone values Keldon as a positive asset, he needs to go.



Imo, the entire trade is predicated on Markkanen's unwillingness to accept more tanking. He already said he wants to compete, regardless of where.
Jazz would have a huge war chest with some young players on the roster, go all on the two upcoming drafts and then trade for one of the next wave of unhappy superstars.

The Hawks were already in the lottery and traded away arguably their best player. Rissacher is not going to add more wins than Murray loses them.

The fly in your ointment is the Jazz's assets are still worse 15+ garbage on par with the Chicago pick.

[scott]

20 pages for a guy who the Spurs probably haven't even actually thought about. Proud of us, boys and gals.

[Spurs Brazil]

https://twitter.com/SASpursCentral/status/1808260833627234768

[Dejounte]

20 pages for a guy who the Spurs probably haven't even actually thought about. Proud of us, boys and gals.

just knowing you, I can tell these are some form of anti jinx posts. Keep up the energy man, it might work

[Mal]

Owning all those FRPs is probably not a good sign they'd be willing to trade with us.

Utah has to draft well, I seriously doubt they will be spending those on all-stars wanting to go there and build contender.

[vy65]

For the cap people, what would Lauri's incoming salary be?

With the fathead signing, GSW's roster is at around 170MM. 179MM is the first apron. Could GSW take back salary that puts them over the first apron?

[spurraider21]

For the cap people, what would Lauri's incoming salary be?

With the fathead signing, GSW's roster is at around 170MM. 179MM is the first apron. Could GSW take back salary that puts them over the first apron?
Keith Smith from spotrac posted this nifty shorthand chart ive been using for rules. i dont see that they'd be hard-capped right now

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GRfzvmvXAAAaGiy?format=png&name=large

[Leetonidas]

https://twitter.com/SASpursCentral/status/1808260833627234768

Haynes is plugged in so they might actually be talking. Depends on how badly GS wants him though. If they didn't want to trade Kuminga for PG I doubt they'll want to include him for Lauri

[Wilt Chamberlain]

https://twitter.com/SASpursCentral/status/1808260833627234768

That sounds like Ainge has SA's offer and is using it to make the GSW sing. One of the ATL unprotected and Sochan would be hard for them to beat. Both unprotecteds near impossible.

[vy65]

Keith Smith from spotrac posted this nifty shorthand chart ive been using for rules. i dont see that they'd be hard-capped right now

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GRfzvmvXAAAaGiy?format=png&name=large

1808278422575366557

So how does this work. The Warriors are at 168MM with the Fathead signing. Wiggins makes 26.2MM. A trade for Mark would, in high likelihood, have him being extended, right? So the most GSW could take back in Mark's salary would be around 36MM, or else they'd tip over into the first apron.

I'm assuming that a team can't make a trade that puts them into the first apron? Or can they? If a trade puts a team into the first apron, do first apron restrictions apply to the trade?

[spurraider21]

1807885495419998596

So how does this work. The Warriors are at ~170MM with the Fathead signing. Wiggins makes 26.2MM. A trade for Mark would, in high likelihood, have him being extended, right? So the most GSW could take back in Mark's salary would be around 36MM, or else they'd tip over into the first apron.

I'm assuming that a team can't make a trade that puts them into the first apron? Or can they? If a trade puts a team into the first apron, do first apron restrictions apply to the trade?
oh thats right they signed Melton with the MLE, which hard caps them at first apron. i forgot about that signing.

but Lauri is already under contract for this season, so im not sure if they have any specific limitations on how much of an extension they can offer him if acquired. somebody like Chinook or Bruno could do a much better job than i could

[Seventyniner]

The Warriors' 2030 first is encumbered due to the Poole trade, meaning they can't trade their 2029 or 2031 firsts due to the Stepien rule. That means they can't trade more than two firsts to the Jazz: either 2025 and 2027 or 2026 and 2028. The Spurs can trump two firsts easily.