There is Markannen to Spurs Buzz

[CGD]

1808278422575366557

So how does this work. The Warriors are at 168MM with the Fathead signing. Wiggins makes 26.2MM. A trade for Mark would, in high likelihood, have him being extended, right? So the most GSW could take back in Mark's salary would be around 36MM, or else they'd tip over into the first apron.

I'm assuming that a team can't make a trade that puts them into the first apron? Or can they? If a trade puts a team into the first apron, do first apron restrictions apply to the trade?

I think it’s fairly safe to assume it’s the Wiggins contract and a bunch of FRPs.

[vy65]

I think it’s fairly safe to assume it’s the Wiggins contract and a bunch of FRPs.

Right, that works. The question is what are the implications of giving Lauri an extension that would put them into the first apron? It seems like they can do that, but I have no idea.

[Manu&Duncan fan]

https://twitter.com/SASpursCentral/status/1808260833627234768

Warrior can be aggressive. But it wont matter. Just like they were aggressive to get Siakam last season.

Lauri is dreaming to come to spurs now. Look at the ceilings of warriors and Spurs.

Warrior's ceiling is playoff spot.

Spurs ceiling is multiple championships and a dynasty greater than the Jordan's Bulls.

By getting 2 to 3 title with spurs, Lauri will be a Hall of Famer and a national hero in Finland.

This is the beauty of Wenby. He cannot resist. Just this simple.

Book it. Lauri will be a spur before Training camp. :whine

[NASpurs]

Warrior can be aggressive. But it wont matter. Just like they were aggressive to get Siakam last season.

Lauri is dreaming to come to spurs now. Look at the ceilings of warriors and Spurs.

Warrior's ceiling is playoff spot.

Spurs ceiling is multiple championships and a dynasty greater than the Jordan's Bulls.

By getting 2 to 3 title with spurs, Lauri will be a Hall of Famer and a national hero in Finland.

This is the beauty of Wenby. He cannot resist. Just this simple.

Book it. Lauri will be a spur before Training camp. :whine

Normally I would say that a player normally doesn't have a choice in regards as to where they're getting traded but in this case, it seems to be completely different seeing as the team he's being traded to would want some kind of reassurance that he's going to resign with them so I agree with you especially if you have the opportunity playing with Wemby as opposed to Curry who's on his way out.

[Chinook]

oh thats right they signed Melton with the MLE, which hard caps them at first apron. i forgot about that signing.

but Lauri is already under contract for this season, so im not sure if they have any specific limitations on how much of an extension they can offer him if acquired. somebody like Chinook (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=37557) or Bruno (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=2449) could do a much better job than i could

The CBA FAQ doesn't have any restriction placed on teams after they have renegotiated a player's salary. So that's not really going to be the issue. The issue would be the extension itself. The Jazz can only give a two-year extension with five-percent raises if they intend to trade him this season. If they trade him without an extension, the new team could only offer to an extension that matches the extend-and-trade procedures unless they wait six months. After that, they should be able to give a vet extension with the 40-percent boost and 8-percent raises. If the new CBA hasn't changed that, it means the Jazz could give Mark a big boost and deal him either one a short-term extension (that cannot be extended further) or as an expiring.

As I said before, I'd probably prefer the Spurs to do the renegotiation themselves or failing that to have Utah do a deal under similar constraints. I don't think giving Mark a three-year max is in their best interests. GS may want something similar, because they can't take back a lot of extra salary and stay under the first apron, which has become a hard cap with the Anderson acquisition. I think they're more likely to take Mark at $18 Million and risk it than $40 Million signed for three years.

[vy65]

The CBA FAQ doesn't have any restriction placed on teams after they have renegotiated a player's salary. So that's not really going to be the issue. The issue would be the extension itself. The Jazz can only give a two-year extension with five-percent raises if they intend to trade him this season. If they trade him without an extension, the new team could only offer to an extension that matches the extend-and-trade procedures unless they wait six months. After that, they should be able to give a vet extension with the 40-percent boost and 8-percent raises. If the new CBA hasn't changed that, it means the Jazz could give Mark a big boost and deal him either one a short-term extension (that cannot be extended further) or as an expiring.

As I said before, I'd probably prefer the Spurs to do the renegotiation themselves or failing that to have Utah do a deal under similar constraints. I don't think giving Mark a three-year max is in their best interests. GS may want something similar, because they can't take back a lot of extra salary and stay under the first apron, which has become a hard cap with the Anderson acquisition. I think they're more likely to take Mark at $18 Million and risk it than $40 Million signed for three years.

By my math, if Mark is incoming to GSW at 40MM, that will put them over the first apron. It sounds like there's no CBA restriction in doing so. It also doesn't seem like there's a CBA restriction preventing GS from Mark waiting 6 months, and doing the much larger extension you describe. But at that point, GSW are a first-apron team with diminished draft assets (assuming they go out to UTA as part of the trade), an aging Steph and Draymond and Fathead. At that point, I guess Mark has to be sold on a vision of the future with Kuminga and Podz and not much opportunity to improve until Steph and Draymond come off the books.

An interesting wrinkle at this point is that Kuminga is an expiring this season and likely will command much more than 7MM. Moody, GPII, and Looney are all expiring as well. Do they resign. Next season, the second apron becomes a big problem for GSW in this scenario.

[Degoat]

It would be so weird to see Chris Paul and Markkanen in a spurs uniform lol

[exstatic]

That sounds like Ainge has SA's offer and is using it to make the GSW sing. One of the ATL unprotected and Sochan would be hard for them to beat. Both unprotecteds near impossible.

If the Atlanta 25 pick were the table, Ainge would have pulled the trigger. It’s immediate, and it’s gratifying, GS can’t hit both of those notes.

My guess at our offer:

CHA,CHI,MIN pick and swap.

[exstatic]

I think it’s fairly safe to assume it’s the Wiggins contract and a bunch of FRPs.

They wouldn’t put Wiggins in the pot for PG13, an All NBA caliber player. They’re not doing it for LM. My guess is that the Fathead signing is their punt.

[scott]

https://twitter.com/SASpursCentral/status/1808260833627234768

Doubt PAFTO is even working. Signed CP3 and called it a summer. Will get out of bed and head to the office is someone dangles some far out swaps for taking on salary though.

[Chinook]

By my math, if Mark is incoming to GSW at 40MM, that will put them over the first apron. It sounds like there's no CBA restriction in doing so. It also doesn't seem like there's a CBA restriction preventing GS from Mark waiting 6 months, and doing the much larger extension you describe. But at that point, GSW are a first-apron team with diminished draft assets (assuming they go out to UTA as part of the trade), an aging Steph and Draymond and Fathead. At that point, I guess Mark has to be sold on a vision of the future with Kuminga and Podz and not much opportunity to improve until Steph and Draymond come off the books.

An interesting wrinkle at this point is that Kuminga is an expiring this season and likely will command much more than 7MM. Moody, GPII, and Looney are all expiring as well. Do they resign. Next season, the second apron becomes a big problem for GSW in this scenario.

The Warriors are hard-capped at the first apron because of the Anderson trade. They cannot go over under any circumstances.

[TD 21]

Curry is the glamor in that franchise. How glamorous have the Bulls been since Jordan left?

The Bulls weren't in bed with the media to this extent. They will give them a platform that others irrelevant franchises (with the exception of the Lakers when they suck) won't get.

Why do you think Melton and Anderson have signed with them now? It's obviously not to contend.

[vy65]

The Warriors are hard-capped at the first apron because of the Anderson trade. They cannot go over under any circumstances.

That Bobby Marks graphic shows them ~10MM under (168 post trade vs. 178 first apron)? I'm just trying to figure out if that signing takes them out of the Lauri race

[kht]

Lauri is 27... shouldn't Wemby and Lauri be hitting their strides at the same time? We should tank... grab two top 5 picks and be aggressive next off-season. Angie isn't gonna let him go for cheap.

[Dejounte]

Lauri is 27... shouldn't Wemby and Lauri be hitting their strides at the same time? We should tank... grab two top 5 picks and be aggressive next off-season. Angie isn't gonna let him go for cheap.

No? Tim Duncan and Tony Parker had a 6 year age gap.

[Blizzardwizard]

:pop: "Hey Steve buddy... Yeah the wine's good... So anyway how's about you give us Kyle and we'll let you have Lauri."

[vy65]

They wouldn’t put Wiggins in the pot for PG13, an All NBA caliber player. They’re not doing it for LM. My guess is that the Fathead signing is their punt.

*Kuminga

[scott]

When Lauri goes to OKC and this dream dies, it will still all have been worth it to see some dumb motherfucker compare Markannen to Gabe Vincent.

[exstatic]

*Kuminga

My bad. Thanks.

[vy65]

When Lauri goes to OKC and this dream dies, it will still all have been worth it to see some dumb motherfucker compare Markannen to Gabe Vincent.

Was gonna say, the usual pattern when there’s smoke that doesn’t materialize into a deal, another team usually pops out of nowhere and snags the player.

[spurraider21]

The Warriors are hard-capped at the first apron because of the Anderson trade. They cannot go over under any circumstances.
why does the anderson trade hard cap them. isnt it the melton MLE deal that does so? im assuming the color chart i shared from Keith Smith doesnt cover everything, but it says that for above the cap but below apron teams, using the MLE or BAE is what hard caps, not a S&T

[Chinook]

That Bobby Marks graphic shows them ~10MM under (168 post trade vs. 178 first apron)? I'm just trying to figure out if that signing takes them out of the Lauri race

This is the updated GS salary situation:

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/golden-state-warriors/cap/_/year/2024

So it looks like with 13 players on the roster, the Warriors are about $7.6 Million under the hard cap. So there is a path for them to get Mark on a large raise while staying under, but it's tights As I mentioned, the Warriors would probably prefer something closer to what I had the Spurs able to do which was $82M/2 in new money and $100M/3 total. They could match that with Wiggins and still have just enough to add a 14th man. Once you start pushing his salary higher than that, you start requiring additional salary to keep the Warriors under the apron, and the players earning that salary need to replaced at the cost of additional salary.

There's a line there, but it's quite thin.

[Chinook]

why does the anderson trade hard cap them. isnt it the melton MLE deal that does so? im assuming the color chart i shared from Keith Smith doesnt cover everything, but it says that for above the cap but below apron teams, using the MLE or BAE is what hard caps, not a S&T
'
Whether it's in the chart or not, receiving a player via a sign-and-trade is a hard-cap condition. You can't receive a signed-and-trade player over the first apron and can't receive a player at all in a sign-and-trade transaction if you're over the second apron.

The Melton acquisition would hard-cap them too, but they need to actually use the MLE for that. With the trades floating around, they could probably find another way to do it later if need be.

[spurraider21]

'
Whether it's in the chart or not, receiving a player via a sign-and-trade is a hard-cap condition. You can't receive a signed-and-trade player over the first apron and can't receive a player at all in a sign-and-trade transaction if you're over the second apron.
thanks

[CGD]

They wouldn’t put Wiggins in the pot for PG13, an All NBA caliber player. They’re not doing it for LM. My guess is that the Fathead signing is their punt.

Wiggins dude, Wiggins. They’ve been trying to move that fool for some time. I think your thinking Kiminga.

[vy65]

This is the updated GS salary situation:

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/golden-state-warriors/cap/_/year/2024

So it looks like with 13 players on the roster, the Warriors are about $7.6 Million under the hard cap. So there is a path for them to get Mark on a large raise while staying under, but it's tights As I mentioned, the Warriors would probably prefer something closer to what I had the Spurs able to do which was $82M/2 in new money and $100M/3 total. They could match that with Wiggins and still have just enough to add a 14th man. Once you start pushing his salary higher than that, you start requiring additional salary to keep the Warriors under the apron, and the players earning that salary need to replaced at the cost of additional salary.

There's a line there, but it's quite thin.

Thanks. It also looks like if they did this, they’d have difficulty retaining Kuminga, Moody, Looney, and Payton since they’re all expiring and Steph has one more season after the upcoming one.

[exstatic]

Wiggins dude, Wiggins. They’ve been trying to move that fool for some time. I think your thinking Kiminga.

Already informed of it.

[benefactor]

Someone convince senile Pop he's Splitters long lost brother so he will make BWrong get this done

https://media.bleacherreport.com/w_768,h_512,c_fill/br-img-images/002/690/750/460657275_crop_north.jpg
https://images2.minutemediacdn.com/image/upload/c_crop,w_4774,h_2685,x_0,y_198/c_fill,w_1080,ar_16:9,f_auto,q_auto,g_auto/images%2FGettyImages%2Fmmsport%2F82%2F01j1j1f13ar7 1j65dzby.jpg

[ismael-robert]

21 pages when spurs have already said no major moves till next year. They're not Messing with draft position, get some hobbies

[vy65]

1808188445258572001

For whatever this is worth

[spurraider21]

21 pages when spurs have already said no major moves till next year. They're not Messing with draft position, get some hobbies
link?

[offset formation]

Lauri is 27... shouldn't Wemby and Lauri be hitting their strides at the same time? We should tank... grab two top 5 picks and be aggressive next off-season. Angie isn't gonna let him go for cheap.

If you can get him without that Atl pick, you do it, imo.

[Chinook]

Thanks. It also looks like if they did this, they’d have difficulty retaining Kuminga, Moody, Looney, and Payton since they’re all expiring and Steph has one more season after the upcoming one.

That doesn't necessarily follow. There is no restriction to re-signing a team's players. So the Warriors could pay to keep everyone together and become a first- or even second-apron team again. Think similar to how they were able to have cap space for a year and then became a perennial deep-tax team in the same off-season. The issue wouldn't be them keeping guys; it would be that such a series of moves would lock them into this rough core with few ways to add new talent to it, ESPECIALLY considering the picks they'd have to trade to get Mark in the first place.

[offset formation]

That doesn't necessarily follow. There is no restriction to re-signing a team's players. So the Warriors could pay to keep everyone together and become a first- or even second-apron team again. Think similar to how they were able to have cap space for a year and then became a perennial deep-tax team in the same off-season. The issue wouldn't be them keeping guys; it would be that such a series of moves would lock them into this rough core with few ways to add new talent to it, ESPECIALLY considering the picks they'd have to trade to get Mark in the first place.

But isn't one of the main complaints about Lacob been that he hates to spend money and will resist going over the apron?

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DcS2HVxCgk

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVvhCDvrFPk

[scott]

I love this time every day when the internet turns back on in the Philippines and cutewizard bombs us with 45 youtube links.

(I actually do enjoy these - I'm not kidding. Keep it up).

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2njqOHwgqsY

[Dverde]

It seems Kuminga being off limits puts Spurs in the best position. I’d rather Spurs give up best offer and move on. Happy no other seems gullible enough to overpay like Gobert trade.

[Rosewood]

21 pages when spurs have already said no major moves till next year. They're not Messing with draft position, get some hobbies or you could just go fuck yourself, tbh.

[LeBowen]

Happy no other seems gullible enough to overpay like Gobert trade.

Noone is overpaying because no contender that needs a forward has enough assets.

Gobert trade was an overpay because adding him to their already complicated cap situation locked them into that roster.
The other issue obviously being that he was 30 at the time of the trade and they gave up picks all the way up to 2029 when Gobert will be 37.

[spurraider21]

It seems Kuminga being off limits puts Spurs in the best position. I’d rather Spurs give up best offer and move on. Happy no other seems gullible enough to overpay like Gobert trade.
not like the spurs have anybody to offer as interesting as kuminga either

[ismael-robert]

or you could just go fuck yourself, tbh.

Says guy with no hobbies...can always tell when sentences end with tbh...typical nerd

[Pauleta14]

21 pages when spurs have already said no major moves till next year. They're not Messing with draft position, get some hobbies

They said what now? :lol

[Pauleta14]

I love this time every day when the internet turns back on in the Philippines and cutewizard bombs us with 45 youtube links.

(I actually do enjoy these - I'm not kidding. Keep it up).

Same :lol

Big up Cutewizard!

[Robz4000]

Someone convince senile Pop he's Splitters long lost brother so he will make BWrong get this done

https://media.bleacherreport.com/w_768,h_512,c_fill/br-img-images/002/690/750/460657275_crop_north.jpg
https://images2.minutemediacdn.com/image/upload/c_crop,w_4774,h_2685,x_0,y_198/c_fill,w_1080,ar_16:9,f_auto,q_auto,g_auto/images%2FGettyImages%2Fmmsport%2F82%2F01j1j1f13ar7 1j65dzby.jpg

Knowing Pop it'd turn him away tbh. Or he'll keep him glued to the bench until the Spurs are facing elimination in a playoff gamem

[benefactor]

Knowing Pop it'd turn him away tbh. Or he'll keep him glued to the bench until the Spurs are facing elimination in a playoff gamem
:cry Splitter and Diaw :cry

[Wilt Chamberlain]

not like the spurs have anybody to offer as interesting as kuminga either

The 25-27 ATL picks are the best trade assets available short of an all star or the picks of the other bottom teams.

The consecutive FRP trade limitation was relatively new when ATL gave them up and teams with lottery pick futures do not take on talent for their picks generally ever.

The Spurs are holding an extremely scarce and valuable commodity.

[exstatic]

The 25-27 ATL picks are the best trade assets available short of an all star or the picks of the other bottom teams.

The consecutive FRP trade limitation was relatively new when ATL gave them up and teams with lottery pick futures do not take on talent for their picks generally ever.

The Spurs are holding an extremely scarce and valuable commodity.

The rule you mention was named after Ted Stepien, owner of the Cavs In the 1970s, so it’s not new.

[objective]

My favorite element of any time the Spurs are rumored to go after an actual All-Star Caliber player is the folks who think we can just build a championship caliber team on a minor league budget. Too afraid to give up draft picks, too afraid to pay anyone. Waiting for some perfect scenario where we land an All-Star on a long-term, MLE-level deal. Keep on dreamin'.

Well, I have some bad news, because they are on a minor league budget compared to other teams.

According to spotrac they've paid tax in 6 of the last 21 years, which is about 4 more than I remember. But they penny pinched their way out of improving the roster to dodge the tax despite having hall of famers trying their hardest to win. I remember seasons of them not even spending the mle because of the tax. And that's when the tax was dollar for dollar and pretty cheap compared to now

And that was with Peter Holt in charge. Now with the divorce and the kids who never had to work as day in their life are in charge, and tax money will impact their lifestyle, so I'm doubting they pay any tax from here on out, and if that costs them Wemby in 6-7 years they won't care.

[Wilt Chamberlain]

The rule you mention was named after Ted Stepien, owner of the Cavs In the 1970s, so it’s not new.

Indeed. 1986 to be exact. Team only seemed to be doing it the past 5 years or so but maybe I just have not been paying good enough attention.

I just cannot recall a team having one much less multiple unprotected picks of a lottery team like this.

[objective]

Re: the warriors and Markannen:

Spurs might have an easier time as vultures who scavenge off the failed acquisitions like New Orleans just did.

If New Orleans wanted Dejounte straight up 2 years ago, they couldn't have gotten him as cheap as they just did. Waiting and picking up the scraps can work.

Let Golden State ruin their future and go all in for Markannen. After they fail in the play in again and the bleakness sets in, they'll sell Markannen cheaper than they got him. Just like Philly got harden on a discount from Brooklyn.

Spurs should pay the used price without the dealer markup.

[exstatic]

Well, I have some bad news, because they are on a minor league budget compared to other teams.

According to spotrac they've paid tax in 6 of the last 21 years, which is about 4 more than I remember. But they penny pinched their way out of improving the roster to dodge the tax despite having hall of famers trying their hardest to win. I remember seasons of them not even spending the mle because of the tax. And that's when the tax was dollar for dollar and pretty cheap compared to now

And that was with Peter Holt in charge. Now with the divorce and the kids who never had to work as day in their life are in charge, and tax money will impact their lifestyle, so I'm doubting they pay any tax from here on out, and if that costs them Wemby in 6-7 years they won't care.

They actually will. His arrival pumped the value of the franchise by an estimated $500M-$1B. His departure will have the opposite effect, hitting their ownership percentage value harder than the tax hits their bottom line.

There’s a reason they’ve been bringing in venture capital guys to the ownership group, and it isn’t an IPO.

[CorrectCrusader]

this post is a red flag

lmao okay psychologist

[T Park]

Well, I have some bad news, because they are on a minor league budget compared to other teams.

According to spotrac they've paid tax in 6 of the last 21 years, which is about 4 more than I remember. But they penny pinched their way out of improving the roster to dodge the tax despite having hall of famers trying their hardest to win. I remember seasons of them not even spending the mle because of the tax. And that's when the tax was dollar for dollar and pretty cheap compared to now

And that was with Peter Holt in charge. Now with the divorce and the kids who never had to work as day in their life are in charge, and tax money will impact their lifestyle, so I'm doubting they pay any tax from here on out, and if that costs them Wemby in 6-7 years they won't care.



Not one thing said here is based in any kind of reality.

[scott]

Correction on a note someone threw out on the what the Warriors have available to offer.

Someone previously mentioned the Warriors 2030 Pick is encumbered in the Pool Trade, but it is Top-20 protected, so the Warriors could offer the 1-20 portion of that pick to Utah (kind of a reverse protection).

The Warriors don't have any other FRPs outgoing, so they could offer 25, 27, 29, 31 and swaps in between or 26, 28, 30 (1-20) with swaps in between. If they offered the 1-20 on 2030 it would have to be a one-time shot, because it couldn't roll into 2031 due to the Stepien rule.

[Seventyniner]

Correction on a note someone threw out on the what the Warriors have available to offer.

Someone previously mentioned the Warriors 2030 Pick is encumbered in the Pool Trade, but it is Top-20 protected, so the Warriors could offer the 1-20 portion of that pick to Utah (kind of a reverse protection).

The Warriors don't have any other FRPs outgoing, so they could offer 25, 27, 29, 31 and swaps in between or 26, 28, 30 (1-20) with swaps in between. If they offered the 1-20 on 2030 it would have to be a one-time shot, because it couldn't roll into 2031 due to the Stepien rule.

Since the 2030 pick that the Warriors owe is partially encumbered, and because the Warriors don't have any other 2030 firsts incoming, the Warriors can't trade their 2029 or 2031 pick at all. The Stepien rule says that a team can't make a trade that makes it possible for them to go two future consecutive years without a first round pick. Since it isn't possible to know yet whether the 2030 pick will convey yet, the Warriors are prohibited from trading their 2029 or 2031 picks.

If they had a 2030 pick incoming from another team the Warriors' own 2029 and 2031 picks would become unencumbered. Maybe they can rope in a third team to send them a 2030 pick, but it would have to be 1-20 reverse protected at worst.

[scott]

Since the 2030 pick that the Warriors owe is partially encumbered, and because the Warriors don't have any other 2030 firsts incoming, the Warriors can't trade their 2029 or 2031 pick at all. The Stepien rule says that a team can't make a trade that makes it possible for them to go two future consecutive years without a first round pick. Since it isn't possible to know yet whether the 2030 pick will convey yet, the Warriors are prohibited from trading their 2029 or 2031 picks.

If they had a 2030 pick incoming from another team the Warriors' own 2029 and 2031 picks would become unencumbered. Maybe they can rope in a third team to send them a 2030 pick, but it would have to be 1-20 reverse protected at worst.

You are correct, sorry I missed that. So they could do 25, 27, 30 (1-20) or 26, 28, 30 (1-20)

Also, I thought the rule only applied to your own picks, so thanks for that clarification. So in theory, the Spurs could trade SA25, SA26, SA27, SA28? Not saying we should, just understanding the rule.

[Seventyniner]

You are correct, sorry I missed that. So they could do 25, 27, 30 (1-20) or 26, 28, 30 (1-20)

Something I missed was the fact that the Warriors can include the 1-20 portion of their GS30 pick. Thanks for pointing that out. 1-20 is very nearly as good as an unprotected first. That brings the total picks the Warriors can offer to three: GS26 and GS28 unprotected plus the 1-20 portion of GS30.


Also, I thought the rule only applied to your own picks, so thanks for that clarification. So in theory, the Spurs could trade SA25, SA26, SA27, SA28? Not saying we should, just understanding the rule.

The Spurs can trade as many firsts as they want so long as it's not possible to go two future consecutive years without a first. Whether or not a pick is that team's "own" (in their natural slot due to draft and lottery order) doesn't matter.

Theoretically the Spurs can trade away SA25, ATL25, CHI25(/26/27), CHA25, SA27, ATL27, SA29, SA31, and MIN31 without violating the Stepien rule. The Spurs would retain SA26, SA28, SA30, SA32 along with all the various swap rights in 26/28/30. That's a potential 9 outgoing firsts; the CHA25 pick is unlikely to convey as a first though it can be referred to as a first to save face.

If the Spurs want to trade away the even numbered year picks with the swaps attached instead they would have to keep a pick in each of 25/27/29 and either 30 or 31. They could trade away one of SA25 and ATL25, CHI25(/26/27), CHA25, SA26 (with ATL swap), one of SA27 and ATL27, SA28 (with BOS swap), and two of SA30 (with DAL + MIN swap)/SA31/MIN31. That brings the total to only (!) 8, though the attached swaps make the 26/28/30 picks more valuable.

There's a lot of moving parts here so if anyone notices something I screwed up feel free to point it out.

[Ditty]

I like Mark but not enough to give up about 5 assets away to a possible conference rival down the line.

I rather take a shot next offseason that he will become a free agent and would choose the Spurs playing next to the future GOAT.

[R. DeMurre]

Something I missed was the fact that the Warriors can include the 1-20 portion of their GS30 pick. Thanks for pointing that out. 1-20 is very nearly as good as an unprotected first. That brings the total picks the Warriors can offer to three: GS26 and GS28 unprotected plus the 1-20 portion of GS30.



So in theory could Golden State risk the odds/game the system and protect the 2-20 portion of their '30 pick, meaning only the #1 pick would convey? That would be an interesting gambit, statistically unlikely to convey but possibly appealing to someone willing to take a big swing. Or break it up in multiple trades, like offering 1-5 to one team, 6-10 to another, and 11-15 to another?

[Ariel]

There's a much easier path towards Golden State maximizing their tradeable picks: offer Washington to turn the '30 pick top 20 protected they owe, into an unprotected swap. Washington should really go for it, since that pick seems both unlikely to convey, and underwhelming even if it does. On the other hand, a '30 unprotected swap seems much more likely to convey given the reality of both teams, plus it has high potential. If GSW does this, then they can trade unprotected picks in '25, '27, '29 and '31, plus unprotected swaps in '26 and '28. That is, 2 more than they could right now. Should be doable.

[AFBlue]

Still buzzing, or has the buzz been killed?

[z0sa]

Warrior can be aggressive. But it wont matter. Just like they were aggressive to get Siakam last season.

Lauri is dreaming to come to spurs now. Look at the ceilings of warriors and Spurs.

Warrior's ceiling is playoff spot.

Spurs ceiling is multiple championships and a dynasty greater than the Jordan's Bulls.

By getting 2 to 3 title with spurs, Lauri will be a Hall of Famer and a national hero in Finland.

This is the beauty of Wenby. He cannot resist. Just this simple.

Book it. Lauri will be a spur before Training camp. :whine

There's some truth in this. I'm not Finnish, wouldn't know about the national hero stuff. But it's reasonable to believe such things might be on LM's mind. No way to know for sure which way he's leaning. He is an MIP, so team loyalty - combined with his relative fragility, tbh - might keep him at home in UT, or work out in our favor (as in, he'll be a team player). Would be an interesting story arc, and for a guy with his talent, his team has made him aware of the implications. JMO

[John B]

I like Mark but not enough to give up about 5 assets away to a possible conference rival down the line.

I rather take a shot next offseason that he will become a free agent and would choose the Spurs playing next to the future GOAT.

I doubt Ainge let him walk for nothing. Only the Dubs are that dumb to do that. If it’s going to happen, it will be before the start of the season where Jazz can downright tank from day one :lol

[Knoxxx]

The Spurs could offer CHI 25, CHA 25, SAS 27,28,29,31 picks

Im not saying we should offer all those picks but those are the less valuable picks. Also we have excess SRPs to throw in.

[pad300]

To quote myself from RealGM:

I think it should be acknowledged that the real driver in this is what Markkannen wants. There are 3 things he can get from his next contract: a) Money (and it will be lots), b) the opportunity to compete and c) where he gets to live. I have no idea how he will choose to balance the three, but that's what he can get.

He can force Utah to trade him by going into Ainge's office and saying that he won't sign an extension with the Jazz. Ainge can't afford to lose him without any compensation as a free agent, and there will be suitors with cap space (eg the Spurs) next season.

He can pick a location from the suitors by telling the other suitors that he won't resign/extend with them. If he thinks, for example, the Warriors won't be competing (even if they get him), he can tell them he won't resign. At that point, it would be GM'ing malpractice to pay a ransom for him...

He gets the most money by signing an extension with the Jazz, but that commits him to another year in Utah (assuming I have understood the discussions involving when his extension would kick in and the trade deadline correctly), and Ainge can then trade him on a long term contract to whomever offers the most, rather than the location of Markkannen's choice. Also, some other locations can match or nearly match what Utah is offering (per year), as they have no state income tax (Utah has a 4.65% tax). It might even make sense for Markkannen to want a shorter contract than 4 or 5 years, so he could sign another one after 10 years in the league (with the permitted higher % of the salary cap).

[eDizzle20]

Markannen is not worth the assets Ainge will request. Hopefully the Spurs will look at trades from other teams that will be in tank mode. Maybe Jerami Grant or Corey Kispert.

[Knoxxx]

Yes the $200 million question is what does LM want?

https://clutchpoints.com/spurs-trade-proposal-to-jazz-teams-up-lauri-markkanen-victor-wembanyama

Suggestion in this article is Keldon + 4 FRPs. Doable, the devil being in the details i.e. which picks.

[Knoxxx]

More teams in the mix, supposedlly:

https://www.slcdunk.com/2024/7/2/24191352/nba-trade-rumor-more-teams-involved-in-the-lauri-markkanen-trade-talks-utah-jazz-warriors-spurs

[Bruno]

I'm not sold on Markannen fit with Spurs, even on the offensive end. To complement Wembanyama and Vassell, Spurs need more a playmaker/initiator than a scorer/finisher like Markannen. I think a player with the profile of Brandon Ingram would be a better fit than Markannen. Saying that, Spurs also shouldn't go after Ingram, mostly because of injuries concerns.

If Markannen is a free agent next summer, he might be a good option but giving up a lot of assets to get him now, heck no.

[scott]

Not that I think the Spurs are actually in the mix here, aside from maybe a cursory phone inquiry, but if they were and if Sochan was part of the deal - I wonder if they'd ask Ainge if they could agree and then hold on to announce until after Sochan is done with national team duties (which will be in a couple of days... I don't see Poland winning qualification with Spain, Bahamas and Finland in their tournament, but who knows).

It's doesn't seem Spursy to force Sochan to answer questions about being traded while he's in Spain trying to qualify for the Olympics.

[spurraider21]

I'm not sold on Markannen fit with Spurs, even on the offensive end. To complement Wembanyama and Vassell, Spurs need more a playmaker/initiator than a scorer/finisher like Markannen. I think a player with the profile of Brandon Ingram would be a better fit than Markannen. Saying that, Spurs also shouldn't go after Ingram, mostly because of injuries concerns.

If Markannen is a free agent next summer, he might be a good option but giving up a lot of assets to get him now, heck no.
Spurs absolutely need a finisher tbh. They are bringing up Castle as the initiator. Wemby will also improve there. Vassell is already a competent pick and roll player. And if castle doesn’t pan out at point he’s still another initiating wing and they would still go get another point guard. If they acquired markannen they’d definitely need another strong defensive wing

castle/vassell/sf/lauri/wemby

the concern here is just the price tag when it comes to dealing with ainge

[LeBowen]

I'm not sold on Markannen fit with Spurs, even on the offensive end. To complement Wembanyama and Vassell, Spurs need more a playmaker/initiator than a scorer/finisher like Markannen. I think a player with the profile of Brandon Ingram would be a better fit than Markannen. Saying that, Spurs also shouldn't go after Ingram, mostly because of injuries concerns.

If Markannen is a free agent next summer, he might be a good option but giving up a lot of assets to get him now, heck no.

Wemby averaged 4 assists this season, 5 after the all-star break, while not knowing what he was doing half the time and while having no spacing around him.
He might not become a Jokic level passer, but he's surely going to be Giannis level and have the ball a lot.

A 7 foot shooter like Markkanen would open up so many things for us.

[RC_Drunkford]

3 firsts plus the CHA pick and Keldon Johnson is fair value tbh. And I doubt the Dubs can beat that. I wouldn't give up more.

[kobyz]

I can only assume this is a troll.

Warriors will offer at least one ancient or retired Steph Curry unprotected first I would imagine. A super valuable pick and fairly comparable to an ATL pick.

The troll is you, warriors don't even willing to offer Kuminga for Paul George, and even if they trade for Lauri i don't see him sign an extension there knowing Spurs want to wait for next summer to sign him...

[manufan10]

1808351511354716657

[kobyz]

I'm not sold on Markannen fit with Spurs, even on the offensive end. To complement Wembanyama and Vassell, Spurs need more a playmaker/initiator than a scorer/finisher like Markannen. I think a player with the profile of Brandon Ingram would be a better fit than Markannen. Saying that, Spurs also shouldn't go after Ingram, mostly because of injuries concerns.

If Markannen is a free agent next summer, he might be a good option but giving up a lot of assets to get him now, heck no.
Markannen is a good fit with Spurs when you include Castle as a core piece

[JPB]

Dont care - then UTA can keep him. But IF (we dont know that, but if) Lauri isnt going to extend UTA isnt going to get some godfather offer IMO

Not even saying spurs should make that big of an offer for Lauri or discussing the fit, but I remember last year when Lillard asked out and litterally said he wanted to go to Miami, the consensus was POR had no leverage and had to jump on Miami's offer becausee time was against them. They waited... then got a much better offer (non one had heard about) from MIL where 32 old Dame was traded.

Utah isn't in panic mode now with Lauri, still a lot of time and offers only come from non contenders now. Wait a little and the interest from contenders or borderline ones will come in the summer until up the deadline. And you can bet there will be at leat one team ready to make much better offers than what Utah is getting now.

[JPB]

More generally, fans can't expect to land good/great players while keeping their best assets. I'd also like to add talent while keeping all our best picks and players but those best assets IS what other teams would want, packaging far, mediocre picks and bench players won't do it...

[CGD]

More generally, fans can't expect to land good/great players while keeping their best assets. I'd also like to add talent while keeping all our best picks and players but those best assets IS what other teams would want, packaging far, mediocre picks and bench players won't do it...

I think most of get this very basic point. Others of us question whether Lauri is even the right fit for SAS at all, and in turn don’t see the wisdom of cashing in valuable assets in for him at all (or, at best, right at this moment).

[Vienna]

Markkanen is a 27 Years old all star, who's last two seasons were his best seasons of his career. he was close to the magical 50/40/90% shooting, that takes him in Dirk territory. (Note: I don't call him the second coming of Dirk)
you can make a point, that this is the level of play, he will be able to provide for another 5-7 seasons.
such a player comes at a high price, no matter if his contract is going to expire.
(they wouldn't trade for him, if they didn't for sure know he will take an extension, would they?)

if he is a fit, who knows. but you can assume, that the combination of a Dirk like big man with Wemby will create something, the league has not yet seen.
so why call this already a bad fit, when there isn't a historical reference.
there isn't a historical reference to Wemby anyway, so any line up will be kind of unique and we won't be able to tell about the fit in advance.
but one thing we can tell for sure: any kind of above average shooting will help to maximize Wemby's impact.

so yes. I would try to get Markkanen and I would be willing to sacrifice a lot, even if it will be called an overpay. (some here will even call a package of Sochan plus one protected FRP an overpay)

a line up of CP3, Castle, Vassell, Markkanen and Wemby is something I definitely would love to see play to find out if this fits.

[rankingtear]

Markannen is in the rare air of Curry and Klay in off screen shotmaking and volume. The main target based on playstyle is Book a true elite on/off guard, but HOU just led the pack with the PHX picks.

[JPB]

I think most of get this very basic point. Others of us question whether Lauri is even the right fit for SAS at all, and in turn don’t see the wisdom of cashing in valuable assets in for him at all (or, at best, right at this moment).

Except, consciously or not, most trades ideas don't reflect that, and are most of times loopsised in favor of the spurs. It's mostly "I give you average/bad players and meh picks, you give me your good/great player... that's the reason why you never see those kind of trades materializing.

For the second part, as you can see in my previous post before the one you quoted, I agree with you and my point wasn't so much if we should make a big offer for Lauri than what it would actually take to get a player like Lauri. We shouldn't expect to get even elite role players without losing valuable assets. They don't fall from trees, there's lot of concurrence and the value of FRPs has decreased nowadays... We can be picky as fans but at some point, always "saying nah too expensive", "nah I don't like him", 'nah this or that".... "I'm waiting for the right guy at the right time, at the right price"... there's nothing left on the table.

[JPB]

I also don't believe one bit in the concept that star guards are gonna fight to come and play with Wemby... Maybe when the team will actually be competitive and close to contend, but not now...

then only watching this FA market already, Mitchell, D-White, Booker, Maxey have or will extend (like most players do), Dejounte has been traded, PG13 signed with the sixers, Batum is back in LA, Hield is off the market and Luka or Giannis are not signing here anytime soon... Plus, not saying I'd want them, but mot fans don't want Trae or Garland either...

So, yeah. gotta hope Castle turns into some kind of superstar himself or they strike gold in next year's draft, which in both cases could still take years... Will Wemby be OK with that or will have the spurs to accept to overpay to add proven talent now?

[VBM]

I rather take a shot next offseason that he will become a free agent and would choose the Spurs playing next to the future GOAT.

That worked out great for Timmy. Yay Rasho Nesterovic!

[Chinook]

Not that I think the Spurs are actually in the mix here, aside from maybe a cursory phone inquiry, but if they were and if Sochan was part of the deal - I wonder if they'd ask Ainge if they could agree and then hold on to announce until after Sochan is done with national team duties (which will be in a couple of days... I don't see Poland winning qualification with Spain, Bahamas and Finland in their tournament, but who knows).

It's doesn't seem Spursy to force Sochan to answer questions about being traded while he's in Spain trying to qualify for the Olympics.

No one can extend Mark until late next month. There's a good chance there isn't real movement until then. If my spitballing is correct, the Jazz can do an renegotiate-and-extend-and-trade on that date. Being able to trade Mark as a long-term contract is in their best interest, being able to acquire Mark with the assurance of a three-year deal is in the new team's best interest, and being able to use his agreement to an extension as a way to control his situation is in Mark's best interest. If he gets traded now, there's a good chance it would be to a team that doesn't want to secure his long-term services. I can't imagine such a team offering enough to get the Jazz to pull the trigger before Mark becomes extendable.

[Mr. Body]

Markkanen is a 27 Years old all star, who's last two seasons were his best seasons of his career. he was close to the magical 50/40/90% shooting, that takes him in Dirk territory. (Note: I don't call him the second coming of Dirk)
you can make a point, that this is the level of play, he will be able to provide for another 5-7 seasons.
such a player comes at a high price, no matter if his contract is going to expire.
(they wouldn't trade for him, if they didn't for sure know he will take an extension, would they?)

if he is a fit, who knows. but you can assume, that the combination of a Dirk like big man with Wemby will create something, the league has not yet seen.
so why call this already a bad fit, when there isn't a historical reference.
there isn't a historical reference to Wemby anyway, so any line up will be kind of unique and we won't be able to tell about the fit in advance.
but one thing we can tell for sure: any kind of above average shooting will help to maximize Wemby's impact.

so yes. I would try to get Markkanen and I would be willing to sacrifice a lot, even if it will be called an overpay. (some here will even call a package of Sochan plus one protected FRP an overpay)

a line up of CP3, Castle, Vassell, Markkanen and Wemby is something I definitely would love to see play to find out if this fits.

I know this will get the usual suspects shitting themselves in rage, but not only is Markkanen nowhere close to Dirk as a competitor and player, and the suggestion is practically insulting, he's much closer to Andrea Bargnani, especially his higher usage years like when he was 25 at Toronto and he was given the keys.

[DPG21920]

Except, consciously or not, most trades ideas don't reflect that, and are most of times loopsised in favor of the spurs. It's mostly "I give you average/bad players and meh picks, you give me your good/great player... that's the reason why you never see those kind of trades materializing.

For the second part, as you can see in my previous post before the one you quoted, I agree with you and my point wasn't so much if we should make a big offer for Lauri than what it would actually take to get a player like Lauri. We shouldn't expect to get even elite role players without losing valuable assets. They don't fall from trees, there's lot of concurrence and the value of FRPs has decreased nowadays... We can be picky as fans but at some point, always "saying nah too expensive", "nah I don't like him", 'nah this or that".... "I'm waiting for the right guy at the right time, at the right price"... there's nothing left on the table.

You see it plenty. You see teams hold guys too long and they lose value. You see trades where the return in surprisingly “low”. Just as much as you see wild desperate trades. Theres a lot of factors but the point is Spurs are not desperate and should have a price they are willing to pay and if UTA takes it? Great. Spurs should not care about what UTA thinks the market is and either Lauri wants to get to SA or he doesnt and if he does then UTA may not get as big of a return as many think.

They absolutely still can as you said and the market for him may work out that way; but its not a given IMO due to his contract situation

[rankingtear]

No one can extend Mark until late next month. There's a good chance there isn't real movement until then. If my spitballing is correct, the Jazz can do an renegotiate-and-extend-and-trade on that date. Being able to trade Mark as a long-term contract is in their best interest, being able to acquire Mark with the assurance of a three-year deal is in the new team's best interest, and being able to use his agreement to an extension as a way to control his situation is in Mark's best interest. If he gets traded now, there's a good chance it would be to a team that doesn't want to secure his long-term services. I can't imagine such a team offering enough to get the Jazz to pull the trigger before Mark becomes extendable.

Renegotiaton triggers 6 month trade ban. Traded player has 6 month renegotiaton ban.

[Kevin]

More generally, fans can't expect to land good/great players while keeping their best assets. I'd also like to add talent while keeping all our best picks and players but those best assets IS what other teams would want, packaging far, mediocre picks and bench players won't do it...

That really is the crux of the situation. Lauri is a first rate player and will cost at least one first rate asset and I am not talking about the Bulls pick. Lauri will cost one of the ATL picks plus two more unprotected picks.

[exstatic]

Correction on a note someone threw out on the what the Warriors have available to offer.

Someone previously mentioned the Warriors 2030 Pick is encumbered in the Pool Trade, but it is Top-20 protected, so the Warriors could offer the 1-20 portion of that pick to Utah (kind of a reverse protection).

The Warriors don't have any other FRPs outgoing, so they could offer 25, 27, 29, 31 and swaps in between or 26, 28, 30 (1-20) with swaps in between. If they offered the 1-20 on 2030 it would have to be a one-time shot, because it couldn't roll into 2031 due to the Stepien rule.
They don’t even have to offer the whole 1-20 range. They could cut it up, Wiz have 21-30, Utah gets 11-20, GE keeps 1-10.

[Chinook]

Renegotiaton triggers 6 month trade ban. Traded player has 6 month renegotiaton ban.

I originally thought that, but I didn't see anything in the CBA FAQ that inidcated that. The closest I saw said a renegotiation ban was triggered if a kicker was waived in conjunction with a trade. Otherwise, there's an extend-and-trade restriction, which is why a two-year deal is the max.

[exstatic]

Markannen is in the rare air of Curry and Klay in off screen shotmaking and volume. The main target based on playstyle is Book a true elite on/off guard, but HOU just led the pack with the PHX picks.

Houston has a ton of forwards already, and Markennan kind of duplicates Smith Jr’s skill set. Houston is saving those picks to get either KD or Book FROM Phoenix.

[rankingtear]

I originally thought that, but I didn't see anything in the CBA FAQ that inidcated that. The closest I saw said a renegotiation ban was triggered if a kicker was waived in conjunction with a trade. Otherwise, there's an extend-and-trade restriction, which is why a two-year deal is the max.

New CBA. https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2023/04/running-list-of-changes-in-nbas-new-collective-bargaining-agreement.html

[itzsoweezee]

That really is the crux of the situation. Lauri is a first rate player and will cost at least one first rate asset and I am not talking about the Bulls pick. Lauri will cost one of the ATL picks plus two more unprotected picks.

Utah will want Vassell on top of the picks. What’s the point of the trade in that case? They’ll just be replacing one gaping hole with another one. Spurs will still be better, but will have little chance to get roster improvements in the future.

[LeBowen]

Utah will want Vassell on top of the picks. What’s the point of the trade in that case? They’ll just be replacing one gaping hole with another one. Spurs will still be better, but will have little chance to get roster improvements in the future.

Realistic trade is either two great picks and two more average ones or Devin and two average picks.

Those Hawks picks look juicy, but how many players better than Markkanen are drafted every year?
Let's not forget that '25 pick lost some value with so many East teams tanking and Trae still being there.

Hypothetically, Markkanen is better than Dejounte, but since Hawks overpaid for Dejounte giving up those picks for Markkanen would seem like a fair trade.
I said many times that 7 FRPs Spurs made before Wemby wouldn't be able to get us Markkanen, that's how hard it is to draft all-stars, unless they're generational talent.

If we look at the previous drafts, how many players picked outside of top3 could become all-stars?
Excluding top3 because Hawks won't tank without owning their picks even if Trae leaves and there will be plenty of tanking teams.
And we'll obviously get better.

[JR3]

Vassell would be a deal killer for me.

[Proxy]

would rather see if B Lopez can be got instead of committing to Lauri. Short contract vets to mentor the investments

[Chinook]

New CBA. https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2023/04/running-list-of-changes-in-nbas-new-collective-bargaining-agreement.html

Thanks for the info. I'm not sure if that's correct, though. It's weird how basically no one else seems to be reporting that except hoops rumors and the NYT. There could be a bit of a misconception when it comes to how renegotiations and extend-and-trade transactions work, though. Like under the old CBA if the Jazz gave Lauri a renegotiation and four-year extension, he cannot be traded. But it's the extension itself being over two years (and perhaps the raises being over five percent) that makes the contract untradeable. The renegotiation would have nothing to do with it. Same would be true if they renegotiated and signed him to a new deal that jumped 20 percent between the renegotiated year and the new extension. The jump is what would trigger the ban, not the renegotiation itself.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but this seems like an odd loophole to specifically close, especially given the push to have teams spend all of their cap space. You'd think this would show up in more places, but when I'm googling it, this thread comes up on the top page because there are so few other sources talking about it.

[JPB]

Realistic trade is either two great picks and two more average ones or Devin and two average picks.

Those Hawks picks look juicy, but how many players better than Markkanen are drafted every year?
Let's not forget that '25 pick lost some value with so many East teams tanking and Trae still being there.

Hypothetically, Markkanen is better than Dejounte, but since Hawks overpaid for Dejounte giving up those picks for Markkanen would seem like a fair trade.
I said many times that 7 FRPs Spurs made before Wemby wouldn't be able to get us Markkanen, that's how hard it is to draft all-stars, unless they're generational talent.

If we look at the previous drafts, how many players picked outside of top3 could become all-stars?
Excluding top3 because Hawks won't tank without owning their picks even if Trae leaves and there will be plenty of tanking teams.
And we'll obviously get better.

yeah, let's not sanctify these 25 pîcks either. They're appetizing with a few potential stars on top (and let's insist on potential) but that doesn't make the whole draft gold, and with Wemby around you have to evaluate the pertinence of keeping them (and maybe not getting a better player or anyway one who would take a few years to develop) versus using them to ger that proven better player now to help Vic.

My personal perception is that with your generational talent in, you shouldn't play and gamble too much on drafts (speciailly with your track record) and prioritize proven talent.

[Vienna]

I know this will get the usual suspects shitting themselves in rage, but not only is Markkanen nowhere close to Dirk as a competitor and player, and the suggestion is practically insulting, he's much closer to Andrea Bargnani, especially his higher usage years like when he was 25 at Toronto and he was given the keys.

jesus. you are so obsessed with peeing on every tree in a forest, that you kill any discussion whenever you show up. just read. a big man, who shoots 50/40/90 is in Dirk territory by definition. noone said he is the player like Dirk.

[Chinook]

Okay, so I did actually look through the real CBA: https://imgix.cosmicjs.com/25da5eb0-15eb-11ee-b5b3-fbd321202bdf-Final-2023-NBA-Collective-Bargaining-Agreement-6-28-23.pdf

I'm not a cap lawyer, but it does seem to suggest that renegotiations do trigger six month bans and that trades trigger six-month negotiation bans.


) (f) (i) In the event a player enters into (A) an Extension pursuantto Section 7(a) above (other than a Designated VeteranPlayer Extension governed by Section (f)(ii) below) thatcovers five (5) Seasons (or, for Extensions entered intoprior to the first day of the 2024-25 Salary Cap Year,four (4) or more Seasons) and/or provides for Salary andUnlikely Bonuses or annual increases or decreases in theplayer’s Salary and Unlikely Bonuses in excess of theamounts that, at the time such Extension was entered into, were permissible in Extensions entered into in connectionwith an agreement to trade the Contract pursuant toSection 8(e)(2) above, or (B) a Renegotiation pursuant toSection 7(c) above, then the player may not be tradedbefore six (6) months following the date on which suchExtension or Renegotiation was signed. If a team acquiresa player in a trade, then, for a period of six (6) monthsfollowing the date of the trade, the team may not enter into(X) an Extension with the player pursuant to Section 7(a)above that covers five (5) Seasons (or, if the trade occurredprior to the first day of the 2024-25 Salary Cap Year,four (4) or more Seasons) and/or provides for Salary andUnlikely Bonuses or annual increases or decreases in theplayer’s Salary and/or Unlikely Bonuses in excess of theamounts that, at the time such trade occurred, werepermissible in Extensions entered into in connection withan agreement to trade the Contract pursuant toSection 8(e)(2) above, or (Y) a Renegotiation pursuant toSection 7(c) above.

That's pretty dense, but it implies most extensions and all renegotiations have this double-ban situation.

Thanks to rankingtear (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=44897) for pointing this out. It basically means the Jazz don't have a ton of leverage to force a Markkanen trade this summer. If Mark wants to leave, he may well put Utah in a bind, but since they can't add value to the deal by extending or renegotiating, other teams might drag Utah into the season.

[exstatic]

That really is the crux of the situation. Lauri is a first rate player and will cost at least one first rate asset and I am not talking about the Bulls pick. Lauri will cost one of the ATL picks plus two more unprotected picks.
He’s actually not a first rate player. He never made an All NBA team, and only one ASG. He’s Dejounte level, and DJ was just traded for two FRPs, and scraps.

[Kevin]

He’s actually not a first rate player. He never made an All NBA team, and only one ASG. He’s Dejounte level, and DJ was just traded for two FRPs, and scraps.

Please other than his career season two years ago DJM is a 20/5/5 guy with questionable shooting efficiency with declining defense. Lauri is a diet Dirk the past two seasons and just turned 27.

[LeBowen]

yeah, let's not sanctify these 25 pîcks either. They're appetizing with a few potential stars on top (and let's insist on potential) but that doesn't make the whole draft gold, and with Wemby around you have to evaluate the pertinence of keeping them (and maybe not getting a better player or anyway one who would take a few years to develop) versus using them to ger that proven better player now to help Vic.

My personal perception is that with your generational talent in, you shouldn't play and gamble too much on drafts (speciailly with your track record) and prioritize proven talent.


I don't want to offend anymore, but I feel like most people who post about waiting for a better opportunity don't actually follow the situation around the league.
We went over all the possibilites multiple times and the chances of another all-star forward who fits the timeline becoming available over the next few years are slim. Especially a forward who's such a good fit with Wemby.
And even if they become available, they're not going to cost less than 4 FRPs and they won't be on anything less than a max deal.
I said forward because I don't really think giving max deals to guards is the way to go in today's league, with just a few exceptions.

That leaves us with either finding our version of Brunson, a player who's struggling to showcase his talents on his current team, or we have to build through draft.
Since we won't be getting another generational talent, any player we draft, even if he has all-star potential, will take at least a couple of years to develop into a high level starter.
I don't want to waste any more of Wemby's seasons on not competing.

Don't get me wrong, we can't blow our load too early, but as of now we've got 13 FRPs in the next 7 drafts, with Charlotte '25 looking like the only one that won't convey.
We have three more swaps in years when we should be competitive.
We also have 20 SRPs in those 7 drafts, meaning it should be fairly easy to move up in some drafts.

I'd rather get Markkanen than watch PATFO sell those for cash considerations and punt them down a decade.

Let's say we trade four FRPs for Lauri, we'd still have 9 in 7 years and a truckload of SRPs.
That's more than enough to make another trade or two.

We've been too spoiled over more than two decades with big3 and then also got nephew for cheap.
Sorry, but that won't happen again. The league has caught up and there are good executives all over.
You won't be drafting another Tony at the end of first round or another Manu in the second round.


He’s actually not a first rate player. He never made an All NBA team, and only one ASG. He’s Dejounte level, and DJ was just traded for two FRPs, and scraps.

Two unprotected FRPs and a swap. And was also up for an extension.
They might be in the same tier, but all-star forwards are always more valuable than all-star guards in trades.
Especially elite shooters.

[exstatic]

Please other than his career season two years ago DJM is a 20/5/5 guy with questionable shooting efficiency with declining defense. Lauri is a diet Dirk the past two seasons and just turned 27.

So, why no All NBA teams, then? If he is as good as you say, he’d have squeeked onto one 3 rd team, right? Or made another ASG?

[LeBowen]

So, why no All NBA teams, then? If he is as good as you say, he’d have squeeked onto one 3 rd team, right? Or made another ASG?

Because players on bad teams rarely make all-NBA teams and because he got shut down in both this and the last season in order for Jazz to get a better pick?

[OldMan88]

If Markannen is truly being shopped by Utah so they can tank into the lottery, will someone explain to me why Utah would insist on receiving a high caliber player in return. Doesn’t that defeat the tankathon approach? Seems they’d want high quality draft picks & lower level players in return. Also, seems to me Markannen has maximum control over this process since only he can agree to sign an extension.

[LeBowen]

If Markannen is truly being shopped by Utah so they can tank into the lottery, will someone explain to me why Utah would insist on receiving a high caliber player in return. Doesn’t that defeat the tankathon approach? Seems they’d want high quality draft picks & lower level players in return. Also, seems to me Markannen has maximum control over this process since only he can agree to sign an extension.

They'd want a young piece because they already have 15 FRPs in the next 6 drafts.
I don't think they'd insist if picks they're offered are good enough.

I think Warriors' offer is nowhere near Ainge's valuation because it would just be dumb to trade unprotected FRPs after Steph is gone and that he's just trying to get some more value from the Spurs.

Like what are Warriors going to if they give up Kuminga and three FRPs?
Have one, maybe two more seasons of play-in struggles and then be irrelevant for a decade without Steph, young players and picks?

[exstatic]

If Markannen is truly being shopped by Utah so they can tank into the lottery, will someone explain to me why Utah would insist on receiving a high caliber player in return. Doesn’t that defeat the tankathon approach? Seems they’d want high quality draft picks & lower level players in return. Also, seems to me Markannen has maximum control over this process since only he can agree to sign an extension.

He does. He can literally pick his team by refusing to extend with anyone else. He can also force the trade by telling Utah that he will not extend with THEM.

[kobyz]

I know this will get the usual suspects shitting themselves in rage, but not only is Markkanen nowhere close to Dirk as a competitor and player, and the suggestion is practically insulting, he's much closer to Andrea Bargnani, especially his higher usage years like when he was 25 at Toronto and he was given the keys.

I always compared Lauri to Rashard Lewis as a player

[Kevin]

He does. He can literally pick his team by refusing to extend with anyone else. He can also force the trade by telling Utah that he will not extend with THEM.

Only 15 guys make all NBA and most all defensive selections are role players who are not top 2 options in the offense.

By your standards a top 18-22 player isn’t first rate.

[R. DeMurre]

So, why no All NBA teams, then? If he is as good as you say, he’d have squeeked onto one 3 rd team, right? Or made another ASG?

I think Lauri is definitely a Top 30 player and inching close to being a Top 20 player. That would leave him outside of the 15 players making the all NBA teams. I don't think anyone is arguing that he's top 10 or top 15... at least I'm not. But I think adding the guy who might be the 25th best player in his prime to Wemby isn't an unwise move.

[scott]

More generally, fans can't expect to land good/great players while keeping their best assets. I'd also like to add talent while keeping all our best picks and players but those best assets IS what other teams would want, packaging far, mediocre picks and bench players won't do it...

Yep. This board thinks we're going to be able to get prime assets with our scraps. It's not realistic. Like others have pointed out, making these big moves will involve a little bit of pain. The rest of the league is also trying to win trades, they aren't here to simply placate the Spurs.

A lot of folks here go ga-ga over acquiring all of these assets for some, unknown, big future move... but get cold feet and want to haggle when it's game time. A lot of folks here would be massive failures in any sort of real world negotiation if that's how they approached things.

Its impossible to know how this FO real views and approaches things, but hopefully they aren't like fans who think we're going to be able to sit around and wait for the perfect superstar player magically on a 4-year MLE deal who we can get for scrap like Wesley + CHA pick. No one has suggested this for Lauri and I'm exaggerating, but a lot of the scenarios thrown out are just as unrealistic. At that point, you're really just saying you don't like Lauri, which is fine... just say that. Saying "yeah, I'd do Trae Young for Branham and a 2028 SRP" isn't a real proposal, it's just saying that you don't want Trae Young (insert the name of your choosing here).

[exstatic]

Only 15 guys make all NBA and most all defensive selections are role players who are not top 2 options in the offense.

By your standards a top 18-22 player isn’t first rate.

They’re not!

[exstatic]

I think Lauri is definitely a Top 30 player and inching close to being a Top 20 player. That would leave him outside of the 15 players making the all NBA teams. I don't think anyone is arguing that he's top 10 or top 15... at least I'm not. But I think adding the guy who might be the 25th best player in his prime to Wemby isn't an unwise move.

I won’t argue any of that. To me, first rate is All NBA. Your mileage may vary.

[scott]

I also don't believe one bit in the concept that star guards are gonna fight to come and play with Wemby... Maybe when the team will actually be competitive and close to contend, but not now...

then only watching this FA market already, Mitchell, D-White, Booker, Maxey have or will extend (like most players do), Dejounte has been traded, PG13 signed with the sixers, Batum is back in LA, Hield is off the market and Luka or Giannis are not signing here anytime soon... Plus, not saying I'd want them, but mot fans don't want Trae or Garland either...

So, yeah. gotta hope Castle turns into some kind of superstar himself or they strike gold in next year's draft, which in both cases could still take years... Will Wemby be OK with that or will have the spurs to accept to overpay to add proven talent now?

Man, you're just absolutely nailing the bullseye on these. Bravo.

This is why I wish the Spurs would just pick a rebuilding lane and stick with it (maybe they have, but the dumb local Spurs media is schizophrenic in covering this team. And of course the team is under no obligation to broadcast what the lane is). Are we building through the draft? Sweet, let's do it. That involves actually using the draft picks though. Are we acquiring more draft assets so we can make a big trade? Okay, sweet. But the local media, who should supposedly have the best insight into this team and be the conduit for the fans, went from telling us we are building through the draft to "there is certainly something coming this summer, otherwise they wouldn't trade 8 for 2031 picks".

If we are building through the draft, then trading 8 for 2030/31 picks makes no sense. Yes, there is logic in loading the draft cupboard for "when we are good in Wemby's prime" - but that is skipping the step (ha, see what I did there?) of getting good first. That's the baffling thing. Certainly there will be someone who was taken between 8-36 this year who we will look back on and say "would be nice to have that player", and it's not like that player would have hurt our 2025 draft by taking them now. But we passed on that...

Passing on 8 like that makes sense if we've decided to improve the team by other means in the short run. Maybe the FO doesn't want a lot more young guys and wants to go in a veteran direction to bring some structure to the team... okay, cool, let's do that! That actually fits nicely with Lauri!

Lastly, the Spurs have apparently communicated (at least it is being reported) that they want to leave flexibility for 2025... which would still align with a Lauri acquisition, since he's a FA in 2025, and we'll have the financial room to resign him without blowing up our (apparently) scant resources.

Alright... diatribe over. Thanks for the great thoughts as always, JPB.

[HankChinaski]

The absolute max amount of picks that spurs should consider is 3 FRP. No more than that. 2 picks and one young talent which would have to be one of (Castle, Vassell, Keldon, Sochan). That's what is probably being pressed by Utah.

I don't think it is worth it if Vassell or Castle are included. Keldon or Sochan on the other hand that is something to consider.

[scott]

No one can extend Mark until late next month. There's a good chance there isn't real movement until then. If my spitballing is correct, the Jazz can do an renegotiate-and-extend-and-trade on that date. Being able to trade Mark as a long-term contract is in their best interest, being able to acquire Mark with the assurance of a three-year deal is in the new team's best interest, and being able to use his agreement to an extension as a way to control his situation is in Mark's best interest. If he gets traded now, there's a good chance it would be to a team that doesn't want to secure his long-term services. I can't imagine such a team offering enough to get the Jazz to pull the trigger before Mark becomes extendable.

I'd like to get some clarity on how the extend-and-trade would work. My understanding is that if he extends, then he can't be traded until after the deadline... and if he is traded, the acquiring team can't renegotiate and thus he'll be unable to extend. Kind of a catch-22 there.

Couldn't Utah renegotiate with him at any time, and then trade him, and then the acquiring team could extend using 140% raise? Wouldn't that be the best mechanism?

I also wonder if Lauri's preference would be to do a short extension to take him to 10-years of service window, or just get his 5-year deal done next offseason for that long-term "set-for-life" deal secured. Not all players like to roll the dice on the shorter term deals to get to 10-years. I think the Siakam and OG deals show that the market is willing to do deals with expiring players with the confidence that they'll be able to resign them. I don't think the fact Lauri is expiring is a big a deal as being suggested, and Lauri will likely have some input on his trade destination. I don't think he'll do a Dame and limit it to one team, but he and Ainge probably have a conversation with Lauri green-lights a handful of potential destinations.

Edit: apologies, I see you addressed above. Wasnt caught up yet when I responded.

[scott]

I know this will get the usual suspects shitting themselves in rage, but not only is Markkanen nowhere close to Dirk as a competitor and player, and the suggestion is practically insulting, he's much closer to Andrea Bargnani, especially his higher usage years like when he was 25 at Toronto and he was given the keys.

I wonder which of these two players are more similar.




PPG
RPG
APG
FG%
3P%
TS%
USG%
OBPM
DBPM
BPM
VORP
WS


Player 1
21.4
5.2
1.8
.448
.345
.533
28.2
1.2
-2.6
-1.4
0.4
2.5


Player 2
24.6
8.9
3.4
.502
.416
.605
28.9
7.2
1.2
8.3
7.4
16.3


Player 3
25.6
8.6
1.9
.499
.391
.640
26.6
4.9
-1.0
3.8
3.3
8.2

[LeBowen]

I won’t argue any of that. To me, first rate is All NBA. Your mileage may vary.

To me it's not only about player's ability in a vacuum, but his fit with the team.
To make an obvous example, someone like peak Demar was a better first option than Lauri, no contest.
But that's not the player Wemby needs.
He needs mobile forwards with legit shooting ability. Markkanen is as good as it gets at being a great scorer at elite efficency without ever stopping the ball.
Teams that are a good fit are greater than a sum of their parts.


I think they're really high on Castle and see him as Jrue 2.0, as we talked about already. He's supposed to become a core member of the squad.
Devin's development is also up in the air. Will he take the next step and continue developing on Middleton's trajectory or he'll stagnate and stay a solid third option.
Wemby is obviously going to be the best player in the league in no time that can do literally everything, just needs spacing, perimeter defense and solid playmaking around him to maximize his talent.

Trading Minnesota pick and swap, Chicago pick and one Hawks pick while having the core of those four players and good cap situation (even after Markkanen's max), while having a lot of picks left is the way to go and noone can convince me otherwise.

Best case scenario we'd need just one more solid starter and rotation pieces. With the entire league lining up to play with Wemby and Spurs still owning almost all their picks to go for solid players, whether it be via draft or smaller trades.
Worst case scenario Castle doesn't develop and we need to find a solid point guard. Still easily doable with all the assets.


I wonder which of these two players are more similar.

Just stop quoting him.
The only way he'll stop embarrassing himself is if everyone stops paying attention to his nonsense.
Legit ruins every topic with his horrible takes.

[Dejounte]

Any fucking news today? Come on!!

[Chinook]

I'd like to get some clarity on how the extend-and-trade would work. My understanding is that if he extends, then he can't be traded until after the deadline... and if he is traded, the acquiring team can't renegotiate and thus he'll be unable to extend. Kind of a catch-22 there.

Couldn't Utah renegotiate with him at any time, and then trade him, and then the acquiring team could extend using 140% raise? Wouldn't that be the best mechanism?

I also wonder if Lauri's preference would be to do a short extension to take him to 10-years of service window, or just get his 5-year deal done next offseason for that long-term "set-for-life" deal secured. Not all players like to roll the dice on the shorter term deals to get to 10-years. I think the Siakam and OG deals show that the market is willing to do deals with expiring players with the confidence that they'll be able to resign them. I don't think the fact Lauri is expiring is a big a deal as being suggested, and Lauri will likely have some input on his trade destination. I don't think he'll do a Dame and limit it to one team, but he and Ainge probably have a conversation with Lauri green-lights a handful of potential destinations.

It's possible that by the time you read this, you'll be caught up. But another poster said that the CBA prohibits renegotiations in conjunctions with trades and has a six-month double-ban where you can't trade a recently renegotiated player and can't renegotiate a player recently acquired via trade. So the Jazz can really only trade Mark as is or give him an extend-and-trade offer, which is 5-percent raises with no jump and for two seasons max. A team could acquire Mark, wait six months and offer a vet extension that includes the jump and 8-percent raises.

Even after reading through the CBA, there doesn't seem to be an issue with the Spurs renegotiating and extending Mark while including the 40-percent jump, other than the obvious issue of them not being able to carry significant cap space into the season. Like if they were to carry max cap space into the season (about $14 Million), they could trade for Mark, wait six months, then do a renegotiation to bump up his salary to about $32 Million, then use the 40-percent jump to give him an even bigger extension. What isn't possible is for the Jazz to extend-and-trade Mark to the Spurs and then having them renegotiate his salary using their cap space, or for Utah to renegotiate, send him on his one year renegotiated deal to SA, have the Spurs wait six months and then give him the extension.

Renegotiations and extensions both reset the clocks back to three years, and you can only do both if they're done together. Trades have a six-month double-ban with both renegotiations and non-E&T extensions. What I said originally was just me spit-balling based on the CBA FAQ. After that other poster pointed out a blurb from Hoops Rumors saying my understanding was wrong, I then looked at the actual current CBA. After doing so, the above represents my belief in the current state of things. I'm not an expert and can be reading it wrong, but the language is pretty straight-forward, even considering the legalese

[vy65]

It's possible that by the time you read this, you'll be caught up. But another poster said that the CBA prohibits renegotiations in conjunctions with trades and has a six-month double-ban where you can't trade a recently renegotiated player and can't renegotiate a player recently acquired via trade. So the Jazz can really only trade Mark as is or give him an extend-and-trade offer, which is 5-percent raises with no jump and for two seasons max. A team could acquire Mark, wait six months and offer a vet extension that includes the jump and 8-percent raises.

Even after reading through the CBA, there doesn't seem to be an issue with the Spurs renegotiating and extending Mark while including the 40-percent jump, other than the obvious issue of them not being able to carry significant cap space into the season. Like if they were to carry max cap space into the season (about $14 Million), they could trade for Mark, wait six months, then do a renegotiation to bump up his salary to about $32 Million, then use the 40-percent jump to give him an even bigger extension. What isn't possible is for the Jazz to extend-and-trade Mark to the Spurs and then having them renegotiate his salary using their cap space, or for Utah to renegotiate, send him on his one year renegotiated deal to SA, have the Spurs wait six months and then give him the extension.

Renegotiations and extensions both reset the clocks back to three years, and you can only do both if they're done together. Trades have a six-month double-ban with both renegotiations and non-E&T extensions. What I said originally was just me spit-balling based on the CBA FAQ. After that other poster pointed out a blurb from Hoops Rumors saying my understanding was wrong, I then looked at the actual current CBA. After doing so, the above represents my belief in the current state of things. I'm not an expert and can be reading it wrong, but the language is pretty straight-forward, even considering the legalese

So then the incentive to get a trade done now is that Lauri would want the more lucrative offer at 8% increases as opposed to 5%? I'm just trying to figure out why there hasn't been any movement on this front.

[mo7888]

I know this will get the usual suspects shitting themselves in rage, but not only is Markkanen nowhere close to Dirk as a competitor and player, and the suggestion is practically insulting, he's much closer to Andrea Bargnani, especially his higher usage years like when he was 25 at Toronto and he was given the keys.

That's bull.... Yes, he's not in Dirk's stratosphere, but the gap between Dirk and Bargnani is so wide that Lauri is closer to Dirk...even though it means nothing....

Yes, I realize you were being sarcastic/ hyperbolic in the illustration, but c'mon.... everyone here is letting their Lauri preferences push them to the absurd..

[scott]

One other thing:

A lot of folks on this board were really intrigued by Risacher in this last draft because of his archetype. There were questions about Risacher the player, but I'm not sure if ANYONE was against him because they felt he's the wrong type of player for this team. Some folks even wanted to expend various assets to move up and grab him.

Lauri is the 99.9% outcome of Risacher, and there is a very slim chance that Risacher ever comes close to Lauri's level. If you liked the idea of Risacher, you should be salivating over the chance to get Lauri.

I joked that we should look at trading 4 FRPs to Ainge as not losing something, but gaining the protection against Wright picking more Blakes and Branhams... but as LeBowen has pointed out, that's really only kind of a joke.

Would you trade Wesley, Branham, Primo and Sochan for Lauri? I sure as fuck would. A lot of draft picks don't ever amount to shit. We can't evaluate future FRPs as future contributors, because odds are not all of them will be.

Get Lauri.

[scott]

It's possible that by the time you read this, you'll be caught up. But another poster said that the CBA prohibits renegotiations in conjunctions with trades and has a six-month double-ban where you can't trade a recently renegotiated player and can't renegotiate a player recently acquired via trade. So the Jazz can really only trade Mark as is or give him an extend-and-trade offer, which is 5-percent raises with no jump and for two seasons max. A team could acquire Mark, wait six months and offer a vet extension that includes the jump and 8-percent raises.

Even after reading through the CBA, there doesn't seem to be an issue with the Spurs renegotiating and extending Mark while including the 40-percent jump, other than the obvious issue of them not being able to carry significant cap space into the season. Like if they were to carry max cap space into the season (about $14 Million), they could trade for Mark, wait six months, then do a renegotiation to bump up his salary to about $32 Million, then use the 40-percent jump to give him an even bigger extension. What isn't possible is for the Jazz to extend-and-trade Mark to the Spurs and then having them renegotiate his salary using their cap space, or for Utah to renegotiate, send him on his one year renegotiated deal to SA, have the Spurs wait six months and then give him the extension.

Renegotiations and extensions both reset the clocks back to three years, and you can only do both if they're done together. Trades have a six-month double-ban with both renegotiations and non-E&T extensions. What I said originally was just me spit-balling based on the CBA FAQ. After that other poster pointed out a blurb from Hoops Rumors saying my understanding was wrong, I then looked at the actual current CBA. After doing so, the above represents my belief in the current state of things. I'm not an expert and can be reading it wrong, but the language is pretty straight-forward, even considering the legalese

Indeed, I responded too soon originally. Thank you for putting in the work here.

So, I still fall back to thinking that an expiring is not that big a deal, going off the OG and Siakam deals.

[Chinook]

So then the incentive to get a trade done now is that Lauri would want the more lucrative offer at 8% increases as opposed to 5%? I'm just trying to figure out why there hasn't been any movement on this front.

There's likely no movement because the Jazz don't want to trade him. They have no restriction on renegotiating and extending Mark's deal other than they have to wait until the end of August to do it. So if the Jazz intend to keep Mark and he wants to stay, we'll hear about the next contract in eight weeks or so. If he wants to move on, the only thing stopping the Jazz from moving him is the hope they can leverage a better deal from teams who are worried Mark would agree to stay in Utah if left to his own devices. We aren't really hearing huge buzz about Lauri being sought after from the main reporters. It's mostly the secondary and lesser guys pushing this idea.

[BatManu20]

There's likely no movement because the Jazz don't want to trade him. They have no restriction on renegotiating and extending Mark's deal other than they have to wait until the end of August to do it. So if the Jazz intend to keep Mark and he wants to stay, we'll hear about the next contract in eight weeks or so. If he wants to move on, the only thing stopping the Jazz from moving him is the hope they can leverage a better deal from teams who are worried Mark would agree to stay in Utah if left to his own devices. We aren't really hearing huge buzz about Lauri being sought after from the main reporters. It's mostly the secondary and lesser guys pushing this idea.


Correct. They'll only move him for a treasure-trove of FRP's.


The leaguewide belief is that the Jazz would only consider moving Markkanen for a sizable trade package similar to what the Knicks gave up to acquire Mikal Bridges – a player Utah tried to acquire and pair with Markkanen.

https://hoopshype.com/lists/nba-rumors-lauri-markkanen-trade-talks-demar-derozan-kyle-kuzma-lakers-knicks-76ers/

[LeBowen]

There's likely no movement because the Jazz don't want to trade him.

This is obvious, no team wants to trade an all-star that's about to enter his prime.
But they can't really build a legit contender around him since he's not good enough to be the first option on a championship team.
And he publicly said he won't accept any more tanking after what they did to him in not one, but two seasons when they shut him down to get a better pick.

I don't think he signs an extension if Jazz doesn't get at least one or two competent players to help him. Why would he?
He doesn't want to wait until he's 30 to compete.
On the other hand, with two upcoming drafts looking strong, it's in Jazz's best interest to tank and get a franchise player.

Markkanen's unwillingness to keep tanking is the only reason that he could be available.


We aren't really hearing huge buzz about Lauri being sought after from the main reporters. It's mostly the secondary and lesser guys pushing this idea.

There's no buzz because there are no teams with multiple good FRPs lying around. Or enough tradeable players that wouldn't leave the roster gutted and make it a lateral move.
Right now Spurs are the only team with established franchise player, a lot of FRPs and cap space.
Other than OKC, but they can't commit to another long-term max deal because soon enough they'll have a supermax and two max contracts on the books.

[scott]

There's likely no movement because the Jazz don't want to trade him. They have no restriction on renegotiating and extending Mark's deal other than they have to wait until the end of August to do it. So if the Jazz intend to keep Mark and he wants to stay, we'll hear about the next contract in eight weeks or so. If he wants to move on, the only thing stopping the Jazz from moving him is the hope they can leverage a better deal from teams who are worried Mark would agree to stay in Utah if left to his own devices. We aren't really hearing huge buzz about Lauri being sought after from the main reporters. It's mostly the secondary and lesser guys pushing this idea.

Yep, this is the big piece everyone is missing when they throw out their low-ball offers (just like they did with Trae). Until these guys demand a trade, the teams don't have to trade them and will only do a trade if they get what they perceive to be positive value. There is no indication that Lauri is some prima donna, he's just someone who has expressed he wants to be in a winning scenario (which, we should want players who want this). I don't think Lauri is the type who will demand a trade or demand a trade to only one team (and it's a fantasy to think that he's going to tell Ainge he only wants to come to San Antonio... c'mon guys). We can only hope that Lauri is on a shortlist of teams he'd be good with. I wonder if fellow University of Arizona alum Sean Elliott could put in a good word for the city there.

[scott]

Someone mentioned Houston and how it wouldn't make sense for them because of Jabari... but maybe Lauri is the exact type of consolidation move that Houston should be looking at. Jabari, Cam Whitmore and 2 FRPs is probably exactly the kind of deal Ainge is looking for - draft capital plus two young promising players.

[LeBowen]

I don't think Lauri is the type who will demand a trade

Agreed, but Ainge isn't naive to let him walk. He'll set a deadline for Lauri to decide if he's extending or not.
And I think that deadline will be before the season starts. Yeah, he can trade him at the actual trade deadline, but only desperate contenders would be interested and they don't have much assets.
There would be no reason for us to trade for Markkanen at the deadline unless this roster really overperforms and we're at around .500.
Imo, we either get him over the summer or try to get him in FA.


Someone mentioned Houston and how it wouldn't make sense for them because of Jabari... but maybe Lauri is the exact type of consolidation move that Houston should be looking at. Jabari, Cam Whitmore and 2 FRPs is probably exactly the kind of deal Ainge is looking for - draft capital plus two young promising players.

Even though I'm one of the biggest Markkanen fans in here, I don't think he's worth trading for if you don't have a legit first option.
What's the point? And I don't think he'd be a good fit with the Rockets.

Imo, Markkanen needs to play with an elite rim protector or it gets really questionable on defense. Markkanen and Sengun wouldn't work.

[Mr. Body]

Again, I think there is a misread of the situation on this board. Thankfully you don't tend to see it elsewhere. If Markkanen truly is the "missing piece" for contention, then you'd see actual contenders going after him. We're seeing no one going for him other than the Warriors, who are desperate to do something for Curry.

Obviously lack of chatter is evidence of nothing in itself, but wouldn't an All-Star shooter with magnificent shooting percentages draw incredible attention? There still are contenders with picks and player that can be traded.

Yet... there's no interest. So far it's GSW, a has-been team, and supposed interest from SAS which may have just been a phone call. If he's really this game-mover, this big winning piece, you'd think teams would be chasing him down. Just throwing out the Kings and Pelicans. Wouldn't they love this incredible piece? They both have trade items and many picks to use.

Once again, I think Ainge is sweating because he isn't getting big bites on this player. Once he has to max Markkanen, his options go down.

[vy65]

There's likely no movement because the Jazz don't want to trade him. They have no restriction on renegotiating and extending Mark's deal other than they have to wait until the end of August to do it. So if the Jazz intend to keep Mark and he wants to stay, we'll hear about the next contract in eight weeks or so. If he wants to move on, the only thing stopping the Jazz from moving him is the hope they can leverage a better deal from teams who are worried Mark would agree to stay in Utah if left to his own devices. We aren't really hearing huge buzz about Lauri being sought after from the main reporters. It's mostly the secondary and lesser guys pushing this idea.

I get that. And it makes absolute sense. On the other hand, Chicago is getting a lot of flack for letting Drummond (and likely DD) go without having monetized them into useful assets. Utah can not want to trade Mark all they want, but that doesn't make that approach savvy in a world where Mark intends on leaving for greener pastures. Now, it may be the case that Lauri wants to stay, in which case, all of this is much ado about nothing. But there is a world in which Lauri intends on leaving - and that is the world that I think those having this conversation inhabit.

[DAF86]

Watching all the high-low action with Wemby in the French NT. Imagine this 7 foot sniper coming up to the top, with the defense scrambling to get to him, only for him to drop it down to Wemby for the slam. This duo can be unstoppable. Make it happen, tbh.

[DAF86]

There's likely no movement because the Jazz don't want to trade him. They have no restriction on renegotiating and extending Mark's deal other than they have to wait until the end of August to do it. So if the Jazz intend to keep Mark and he wants to stay, we'll hear about the next contract in eight weeks or so. If he wants to move on, the only thing stopping the Jazz from moving him is the hope they can leverage a better deal from teams who are worried Mark would agree to stay in Utah if left to his own devices. We aren't really hearing huge buzz about Lauri being sought after from the main reporters. It's mostly the secondary and lesser guys pushing this idea.

It makes no sense for the Jazz to keep Lauri. They will be stuck for years in purgatory, like the Spurs were, first with DeRozan and Aldridge and then with Murray. There's no point in having these #2/#3 options that raise your floor, if you have no way of adding that #1 option.

The best thing the Jazz can do is trade Lauri, bottom out and hope that the kid they draft is a #1.

[CGD]

Again, I think there is a misread of the situation on this board. Thankfully you don't tend to see it elsewhere. If Markkanen truly is the "missing piece" for contention, then you'd see actual contenders going after him. We're seeing no one going for him other than the Warriors, who are desperate to do something for Curry.

Obviously lack of chatter is evidence of nothing in itself, but wouldn't an All-Star shooter with magnificent shooting percentages draw incredible attention? There still are contenders with picks and player that can be traded.

Yet... there's no interest. So far it's GSW, a has-been team, and supposed interest from SAS which may have just been a phone call. If he's really this game-mover, this big winning piece, you'd think teams would be chasing him down. Just throwing out the Kings and Pelicans. Wouldn't they love this incredible piece? They both have trade items and many picks to use.

Once again, I think Ainge is sweating because he isn't getting big bites on this player. Once he has to max Markkanen, his options go down.

All true. Say nothing of the fact that he had one of the worst defensive ratings on the team with worst defensive rating last season.

He’s a good offensive player, but how many guys are we expecting Wemby to clean up for on the other side of the ball?

[scott]

Agreed, but Ainge isn't naive to let him walk. He'll set a deadline for Lauri to decide if he's extending or not.

Yeah, I think that if Lauri refuses to renegotiate and extend, he and his agent should know that is tantamount to demanding a trade, and he'll likely at that point deliver a short list of teams.


And I think that deadline will be before the season starts. Yeah, he can trade him at the actual trade deadline, but only desperate contenders would be interested and they don't have much assets.
There would be no reason for us to trade for Markkanen at the deadline unless this roster really overperforms and we're at around .500.
Imo, we either get him over the summer or try to get him in FA.

I'll slightly disagree here. Like you said, Ainge won't let Markannen go for free. I do agree Ainge is probably getting maximum return before the season, but if for some reason it extends to deadline, he will get moved in a Siakam/OG type move and he will never hit FA, IMO. I think the only way to get him is to trade for him, now or at the deadline. The other option would be if they renegotiate and extend and then you trade for him next summer (which might be even costlier)




Even though I'm one of the biggest Markkanen fans in here, I don't think he's worth trading for if you don't have a legit first option.
What's the point? And I don't think he'd be a good fit with the Rockets.

Imo, Markkanen needs to play with an elite rim protector or it gets really questionable on defense. Markkanen and Sengun wouldn't work.

I agree with you there, just throwing out ideas for other competitors potentially after Lauri. Houston is a team with the assets to make it happen - don't know that they would, but they could.

[CGD]

It makes no sense for the Jazz to keep Lauri. They will be stuck for years in purgatory, like the Spurs were, first with DeRozan and Aldridge and then with Murray. There's no point in having these #2/#3 options that raise your floor, if you have no way of adding that #1 option.

The best thing the Jazz can do is trade Lauri, bottom out and hope that the kid they draft is a #1.

Exactly, Utah’s power is overstated. GWS will probably overpay because of the Curry factor, but if not revisit this discussion in February if the Spurs want him.

[LeBowen]

Yeah, all true.
Why aren't the Lakers, Bucks, Clippers, Suns or Heat trying ot trade for Lauri? He's awful!

Individual defensive rating is one of the worst metrics, especially when your starting C is 6'9 John Collins and your team is trying to tank.
Why didn't we even improve by a single win after adding Wemby?

Now I want Markkanen at any cost just because of awful takes.
People who are defending Jeremy talking about Markkanen not being a good player.

[scott]

It makes no sense for the Jazz to keep Lauri. They will be stuck for years in purgatory, like the Spurs were, first with DeRozan and Aldridge and then with Murray. There's no point in having these #2/#3 options that raise your floor, if you have no way of adding that #1 option.

The best thing the Jazz can do is trade Lauri, bottom out and hope that the kid they draft is a #1.

Yeah, I think the path is pretty clear and obvious what Utah *should* do. The have tons of young pieces that could develop into complementary pieces (which Lauri is as well, and is what he would be for us) but no true #1. Play those young kids (I threw out a Collier/George/Cody/Hendricks/Kessler core before... those are the guys they should focus on developing, they also have Flip they should be giving heavy playing time to).

Play those guys, go 15-67, and get a Top 4 pick in 2025. Hopefully you land your #1 and now you have an unprecedented war chest to do what the Spurs should be doing: using that war chest to fill out the roster and go contend. This really sets up nicely for Ainge. He'll have a #1 prospect, a bunch of interesting complementary prospects, a haul of picks that puts OKC and SAS war chests to shame, and control over MIN's draft (especially if they get the 30 swap and 31 pick from us). That's like the San Antonio plan on steroids.

If I were Ainge, I'd also be looking to monetize Sexton, for the same reasons. It would make sense to keep Jordan Clarkson as that long-term institutional knowledge vet. Not sure they could get any value from John Collins, so you keep him as well. In addition to the other young guys I previously mentioned, I forgot they also have Brice Sensabaugh, Kenneth Lofton Jr and Darius Bazley on their team. Give all these young guys heavy minutes. This would be a hard tank with promise, not the "holy fuck, Doug McDermott, Josh Richardson, and KBD are getting heavy minutes" kind of tank that was solely a tank. The Utah tank would be a tank + development of lots of youth. In many respects, we missed an opportunity to play Blake and Bran more in that tank year. Blake was due to injury and Bran got heavy run at the last 75% of the season, but we should have just thrown him straight in the fire to start that year.

[scott]

Yeah, all true.
Why aren't the Lakers, Bucks, Clippers, Suns or Heat trying ot trade for Lauri? He's awful!

Individual defensive rating is one of the worst metrics, especially when your starting C is 6'9 John Collins and your team is trying to tank.
Why didn't we even improve by a single win after adding Wemby?

Now I want Markkanen at any cost just because of awful takes.
People who are defending Jeremy talking about Markkanen not being a good player.

Legit saw a popular Spurs YouTuber talking about how if Sochan is part of the deal for Lauri, that's a deal breaker. The Spurs-colored glasses really infect people's brains.

[LeBowen]

Legit saw a popular Spurs YouTuber talking about how if Sochan is part of the deal for Lauri, that's a deal breaker. The Spurs-colored glasses really infect people's brains.

Every time someone overrates anyone on our roster except maybe Devin, I get flashbacks to the last season and watching actual basketball teams play right after our game finishes.
Like a different sport.

We have to see what we have in Castle, but other than Devin none of our players is worth shit as of now.
Tre is your average backup point guard, Keldon is a high engery, low IQ chucker with traffic cone defense and Jeremy is someone with no actual NBA skills as of now.
Those final couple of weeks when we played without supposedly key rotation pieces were eye opening to how awful this roster is.

[Obstructed_View]

Holy shit. :lmao

[scott]

Every time someone overrates anyone on our roster except maybe Devin, I get flashbacks to the last season and watching actual basketball teams play right after our game finishes.
Like a different sport.

We have to see what we have in Castle, but other than Devin none of our players is worth shit as of now.
Tre is your average backup point guard, Keldon is a high engery, low IQ chucker with traffic cone defense and Jeremy is someone with no actual NBA skills as of now.
Those final couple of weeks when we played without supposedly key rotation pieces were eye opening to how awful this roster is.

Agree 100%. As of right now, Wemby-Devin-Castle is the future. Everyone else is only here until a better option comes around. In the case of Sochan, he may develop into that "better" option organically on his own (and I hope he does if he's on his team), but he and everyone else is definitely on the table. Hell, even Devin should be on the table for certain players (not Lauri though, as I've explained... the Wemby-Lauri-Devin main trio is the goal).

I love with Spurs fans come up with their list of untouchables that include the entire team that just went 22-60 for two straight years :lol

[baseline bum]

One other thing:

A lot of folks on this board were really intrigued by Risacher in this last draft because of his archetype. There were questions about Risacher the player, but I'm not sure if ANYONE was against him because they felt he's the wrong type of player for this team. Some folks even wanted to expend various assets to move up and grab him.

Lauri is the 99.9% outcome of Risacher, and there is a very slim chance that Risacher ever comes close to Lauri's level. If you liked the idea of Risacher, you should be salivating over the chance to get Lauri.

I joked that we should look at trading 4 FRPs to Ainge as not losing something, but gaining the protection against Wright picking more Blakes and Branhams... but as LeBowen has pointed out, that's really only kind of a joke.

Would you trade Wesley, Branham, Primo and Sochan for Lauri? I sure as fuck would. A lot of draft picks don't ever amount to shit. We can't evaluate future FRPs as future contributors, because odds are not all of them will be.

Get Lauri.

Yeah I'd go and get him on my 26 pick (with unprotected ATL swap) + 27 unprotected ATL pick + 30 pick (with 2 top 1 protected swaps MIN/DAL) + 31 unprotected MIN pick + Keldon proposal if Lauri says he'll sign a 5 year max deal to stay. That's better than Brooklyn got for Bridges so I don't think it's an unrealistic proposal. Though I'd lead off with Graham + Branham as the salary in the deal in case Ainge just wants short term money back and could care less about getting them instead of Keldon.

[vy65]

Yeah, I think the path is pretty clear and obvious what Utah *should* do. The have tons of young pieces that could develop into complementary pieces (which Lauri is as well, and is what he would be for us) but no true #1. Play those young kids (I threw out a Collier/George/Cody/Hendricks/Kessler core before... those are the guys they should focus on developing, they also have Flip they should be giving heavy playing time to).

Play those guys, go 15-67, and get a Top 4 pick in 2025. Hopefully you land your #1 and now you have an unprecedented war chest to do what the Spurs should be doing: using that war chest to fill out the roster and go contend. This really sets up nicely for Ainge. He'll have a #1 prospect, a bunch of interesting complementary prospects, a haul of picks that puts OKC and SAS war chests to shame, and control over MIN's draft (especially if they get the 30 swap and 31 pick from us). That's like the San Antonio plan on steroids.

If I were Ainge, I'd also be looking to monetize Sexton, for the same reasons. It would make sense to keep Jordan Clarkson as that long-term institutional knowledge vet. Not sure they could get any value from John Collins, so you keep him as well. In addition to the other young guys I previously mentioned, I forgot they also have Brice Sensabaugh, Kenneth Lofton Jr and Darius Bazley on their team. Give all these young guys heavy minutes. This would be a hard tank with promise, not the "holy fuck, Doug McDermott, Josh Richardson, and KBD are getting heavy minutes" kind of tank that was solely a tank. The Utah tank would be a tank + development of lots of youth. In many respects, we missed an opportunity to play Blake and Bran more in that tank year. Blake was due to injury and Bran got heavy run at the last 75% of the season, but we should have just thrown him straight in the fire to start that year.

I agree, but Ainge has a balancing act. If memory serves, the Jazz were a play-in +500 club pre-ASB. Extending Lauri would make his contract have more value in the event of a trade, but I think if he extends in August, he can't be traded at all during the season because the expiration of the 6 month moratorium would come after the trade deadline. So does that mean Utah ends up in similar draft position (10) next year? Next year is the draft to go all-in on so I'd do whatever I could to minimize Lauri's playing time. Is Lauri on-board with that? Does he get the extension and basically stfu with minimal PT until summer of 2025 when he gets traded? I have no clue.

[LeBowen]

Yeah I'd go and get him on my 26 pick (with unprotected ATL swap) + 27 unprotected ATL pick + 30 pick (with 2 top 1 protected swaps MIN/DAL) + 31 unprotected MIN pick + Keldon proposal if Lauri says he'll sign a 5 year max deal to stay. That's better than Brooklyn got for Bridges so I don't think it's an unrealistic proposal.

How would you value our picks?

I'd say that '27 ATL and '26 ATL/SAS swap are easily the most valuable, I'd argue those two are more valuable than 4 FRPs Knicks traded for Bridges.
'25 ATL isn't as valuable as those with Trae still on the roster.
'25 SAS loses value if we trade it for Markkanen.
'27 and onwards SAS picks are hopefully well into 20s.
'25 CHI could convey because Bulls hate tanking and they shouldn't be top8 in both '26 and '27.

BOS and DAL swaps probably won't be great, maybe if DAL implodes.
MIN picks are a complete unknown, I can see them dropping out of contention by then because this is the best roster they can put together and 7 years is a long time to go.
I'd say those picks would be up there with ATL picks for Ainge, he wants to control MIN's future even more.

I'd say two MIN picks and CHI would be a guarantee, then I'd let them choose between one of those ATL picks or give them two SAS picks.

'25 CHI
'26 ATL/SAS
'27 ATL
'30 MIN/SAS
'31 MIN

I'd do those 5 picks only if they also take Collins. Even throw that fake CHA first in.
If they want Keldon, take away '25 CHI.
If they want Jeremy, '27 SAS instead of '27 ATL.

There are also some options to effectively trade down because they have so many FRPs.
For example, trading '26 ATL/SAS for '26 MIN/CLE would still have a lot of value for them.
Even if we end up with no FRP in '26 draft it's not the end of the world because we have 5 SRPs that year and could easily move up to mid-20s if we really like someone.

[RC_Drunkford]

All true. Say nothing of the fact that he had one of the worst defensive ratings on the team with worst defensive rating last season.

He’s a good offensive player, but how many guys are we expecting Wemby to clean up for on the other side of the ball?

Markkanen is a 7-footer. All he has to do is funnel guys into the 7'5'' guy behind him and they will have no space at all to get a shot off inside the 3-point line. Besides that he's a good rebounder too.

[Seventyniner]

There are also some options to effectively trade down because they have so many FRPs.
For example, trading '26 ATL/SAS for '26 MIN/CLE would still have a lot of value for them.
Even if we end up with no FRP in '26 draft it's not the end of the world because we have 5 SRPs that year and could easily move up to mid-20s if we really like someone.

Swapping some firsts is an interesting idea. Diversify both teams' exposure.

Then you could see something like salary filler + 6 firsts to Utah for Markkanen and 2 firsts, for a net of 4 to Utah.

[LeBowen]

Swapping some firsts is an interesting idea. Diversify both teams' exposure.

Then you could see something like salary filler + 6 firsts to Utah for Markkanen and 2 firsts, for a net of 4 to Utah.

Exactly.
They have 4 FRPs in '27 draft.
Own, CLE, MIN, LAL (top4 prot).

We could do a MIN/ATL swap, giving them another trade-up. I think it's allowed to swap picks that aren't your own?

[vy65]

I think Scott was the one promoting the idea, but the MIN swap + 2031 pick should hold unique value to Utah as it'll enable them to own MIN's future. Not all 1st round picks are created equal; those assets should be valued higher than NYK picks that are set to be in the late 20's. I don't think it would be unreasonable to say a pick in the mid twenties is half as valuable as a mid-to-late lottery pick. Valuation has to be priced into a trade. It's not just about quantity; Quality matters.

1) SAS2025 + 2) S/ATL 2026 + 3) CHI and/or CHA should be roughly equivalent to the draft capital BKN received for Bridges.

[John B]

If Markannen is truly being shopped by Utah so they can tank into the lottery, will someone explain to me why Utah would insist on receiving a high caliber player in return. Doesn’t that defeat the tankathon approach? Seems they’d want high quality draft picks & lower level players in return. Also, seems to me Markannen has maximum control over this process since only he can agree to sign an extension.

High picks plus young good players. Rockets, Thunder, Magic all had young players with losing records until they started getting better. Keldon, Tre should be good pieces to throw in.

[Spurs Homer]

Utah will want Vassell on top of the picks. What’s the point of the trade in that case? They’ll just be replacing one gaping hole with another one. Spurs will still be better, but will have little chance to get roster improvements in the future.


Vassell is expendable and most here highly overrate him. I would rather keep sochan over vassell even with his broken shot - at least he has heart.

[scott]

How would you value our picks?

I'd say that '27 ATL and '26 ATL/SAS swap are easily the most valuable, I'd argue those two are more valuable than 4 FRPs Knicks traded for Bridges.
'25 ATL isn't as valuable as those with Trae still on the roster.
'25 SAS loses value if we trade it for Markkanen.
'27 and onwards SAS picks are hopefully well into 20s.
'25 CHI could convey because Bulls hate tanking and they shouldn't be top8 in both '26 and '27.

BOS and DAL swaps probably won't be great, maybe if DAL implodes.
MIN picks are a complete unknown, I can see them dropping out of contention by then because this is the best roster they can put together and 7 years is a long time to go.
I'd say those picks would be up there with ATL picks for Ainge, he wants to control MIN's future even more.

I'd say two MIN picks and CHI would be a guarantee, then I'd let them choose between one of those ATL picks or give them two SAS picks.

'25 CHI
'26 ATL/SAS
'27 ATL
'30 MIN/SAS
'31 MIN

I'd do those 5 picks only if they also take Collins. Even throw that fake CHA first in.
If they want Keldon, take away '25 CHI.
If they want Jeremy, '27 SAS instead of '27 ATL.

There are also some options to effectively trade down because they have so many FRPs.
For example, trading '26 ATL/SAS for '26 MIN/CLE would still have a lot of value for them.
Even if we end up with no FRP in '26 draft it's not the end of the world because we have 5 SRPs that year and could easily move up to mid-20s if we really like someone.

I like the way you've laid out the whole thing and provided almost a "menu" of options for Ainge to choose from.

I bolded this part because you could accomplish this via Swaps instead of trading picks, which would be better for the Spurs because it wouldn't implicate the Stepien rule for anything the Spurs may want to do in the future.

[scott]

Exactly.
They have 4 FRPs in '27 draft.
Own, CLE, MIN, LAL (top4 prot).

We could do a MIN/ATL swap, giving them another trade-up. I think it's allowed to swap picks that aren't your own?

You can't trade swaps of other teams that you've acquired, but you could do something like:

Rights to Swap the best of SA/ATL with the Worst (or third worst, or second best, or whatever you want) of UTA/CLE/MIN/LAL

[baseline bum]

I like the way you've laid out the whole thing and provided almost a "menu" of options for Ainge to choose from.

I bolded this part because you could accomplish this via Swaps instead of trading picks, which would be better for the Spurs because it wouldn't implicate the Stepien rule for anything the Spurs may want to do in the future.

They're fine on the Stepien Rule. I thought you couldn't trade your own pick in back to back years but the rule is really that you can't be without a first round pick in back to back years. So the Stepien Rule is immaterial unless you want to ship out picks in another trade after getting Markannen.

[scott]

I think Scott was the one promoting the idea, but the MIN swap + 2031 pick should hold unique value to Utah as it'll enable them to own MIN's future. Not all 1st round picks are created equal; those assets should be valued higher than NYK picks that are set to be in the late 20's. I don't think it would be unreasonable to say a pick in the mid twenties is half as valuable as a mid-to-late lottery pick. Valuation has to be priced into a trade. It's not just about quantity; Quality matters.

1) SAS2025 + 2) S/ATL 2026 + 3) CHI and/or CHA should be roughly equivalent to the draft capital BKN received for Bridges.

I think the only problem with SAS2025 is that you can reasonably value that pick in the 20s if the Spurs get Lauri, so it would hold less value.

I think the most valuable assets, to Ainge, would be, in this order (though I may need to think about it more)

SAS26 (with Atl Swap)
ATL27
MIN31
SAS30 (with MIN/DAL Swap)
SAS28 (with BOS Swap)

In theory, any FRP with a swap attached is naturally more valuable than a pick without a swap, because it doubles the upside of the pick through natural variance alone).

MIN31 and SAS30 might move to the top of the ranking because of the unique value proposition to Ainge. In my mind, those are the first two picks that go on the table from Ainge's POV and he probably doesn't do the deal without them.

[Joseph Kony]

How would you value our picks?

I'd say that '27 ATL and '26 ATL/SAS swap are easily the most valuable, I'd argue those two are more valuable than 4 FRPs Knicks traded for Bridges.
'25 ATL isn't as valuable as those with Trae still on the roster.
'25 SAS loses value if we trade it for Markkanen.
'27 and onwards SAS picks are hopefully well into 20s.
'25 CHI could convey because Bulls hate tanking and they shouldn't be top8 in both '26 and '27.

BOS and DAL swaps probably won't be great, maybe if DAL implodes.
MIN picks are a complete unknown, I can see them dropping out of contention by then because this is the best roster they can put together and 7 years is a long time to go.
I'd say those picks would be up there with ATL picks for Ainge, he wants to control MIN's future even more.

I'd say two MIN picks and CHI would be a guarantee, then I'd let them choose between one of those ATL picks or give them two SAS picks.

'25 CHI
'26 ATL/SAS
'27 ATL
'30 MIN/SAS
'31 MIN

I'd do those 5 picks only if they also take Collins. Even throw that fake CHA first in.
If they want Keldon, take away '25 CHI.
If they want Jeremy, '27 SAS instead of '27 ATL.

There are also some options to effectively trade down because they have so many FRPs.
For example, trading '26 ATL/SAS for '26 MIN/CLE would still have a lot of value for them.
Even if we end up with no FRP in '26 draft it's not the end of the world because we have 5 SRPs that year and could easily move up to mid-20s if we really like someone.

Great post tbh. Illustrates why people shouldnt act like sitting around and not making moves is the best strategy. SA could trade all the picks you listed (25 chi, 26 atl/sas, 27 atl, 30 min/sas, and 31 min) and still have first round picks in 2025, 2026, 2027, 2028, 2029, etc.

[scott]

They're fine on the Stepien Rule. I thought you couldn't trade your own pick in back to back years but the rule is really that you can't be without a first round pick in back to back years. So the Stepien Rule is immaterial unless you want to ship out picks in another trade after getting Markannen.

I'm not talking about the Stepien rule after this trade... but how the Stepien rule on a future trade.

For example, if you do swaps (like what I suggest) you not only stay compliant with the rule on this trade, but it might allow you to do something else on a future trade and still stay in compliance.

Simplistic example: If we traded our 26 and took back their 26, then it locks you out of trading 25 and 27. But if you format it as a swap, you could still go trade 25 and 27 later.

[vy65]

I think the only problem with SAS2025 is that you can reasonably value that pick in the 20s if the Spurs get Lauri, so it would hold less value.

I think the most valuable assets, to Ainge, would be, in this order (though I may need to think about it more)

SAS26 (with Atl Swap)
ATL27
MIN31
SAS30 (with MIN/DAL Swap)
SAS28 (with BOS Swap)

In theory, any FRP with a swap attached is naturally more valuable than a pick without a swap, because it doubles the upside of the pick through natural variance alone).

MIN31 and SAS30 might move to the top of the ranking because of the unique value proposition to Ainge. In my mind, those are the first two picks that go on the table from Ainge's POV and he probably doesn't do the deal without them.

Exactly. So a package of 1) Keldon and/or Zollins 2) S/ATL26 3) MIN31 4) handful of seconds should roughly equate to what Brooklyn got. You could also throw in a SAS 29 or some other similar pick figured to be in the late 20's as well to equal it out.

At that point, you're talking about salary fodder + a roll of the dice to get Cameron Boozer + ownership of MIN's future for Mark. Why don't you entertain that for an asset that's diminishing in value by the day?

[LeBowen]

For clarity on what the GSW can offer for Markkaken, they owe WAS a top-20 pick in 2030.
As a result, the GSW only have access to trade up to two outright first-round picks from their pool of: 2025, 2026, 2027, 2028.
2029 and 2031 are locked.
They can't trade 4 outright firsts.

This is Siakam scenario all over again.

[scott]

Utah's war chest, specifically, also has gaps in the even number years (they have an abundance of picks in the odd years) which is why I think he best package for Ainge specifically would be SA26 + SA28 + SA30 + MIN31. Not saying we should be default cave to that, just saying that specific combo of picks is what fits Utah best (and coincidently has 4 of the 5 most valuable picks to them)

[baseline bum]

Simplistic example: If we traded our 26 and took back their 26, then it locks you out of trading 25 and 27. But if you format it as a swap, you could still go trade 25 and 27 later.

No it doesn't. You'd have a 26 pick, so you'd be fine trading both 25 picks and you could also trade both 27 picks as long as you don't trade the 28 pick.

[Manu&Duncan fan]

Any fucking news today? Come on!!

Angie will drag as long as he can, until he cannot. It will be a couple of days before training camp.

[baseline bum]

How would you value our picks?

I'd say that '27 ATL and '26 ATL/SAS swap are easily the most valuable, I'd argue those two are more valuable than 4 FRPs Knicks traded for Bridges.
'25 ATL isn't as valuable as those with Trae still on the roster.
'25 SAS loses value if we trade it for Markkanen.
'27 and onwards SAS picks are hopefully well into 20s.
'25 CHI could convey because Bulls hate tanking and they shouldn't be top8 in both '26 and '27.

BOS and DAL swaps probably won't be great, maybe if DAL implodes.
MIN picks are a complete unknown, I can see them dropping out of contention by then because this is the best roster they can put together and 7 years is a long time to go.
I'd say those picks would be up there with ATL picks for Ainge, he wants to control MIN's future even more.

I'd say two MIN picks and CHI would be a guarantee, then I'd let them choose between one of those ATL picks or give them two SAS picks.

'25 CHI
'26 ATL/SAS
'27 ATL
'30 MIN/SAS
'31 MIN

I'd do those 5 picks only if they also take Collins. Even throw that fake CHA first in.
If they want Keldon, take away '25 CHI.
If they want Jeremy, '27 SAS instead of '27 ATL.

There are also some options to effectively trade down because they have so many FRPs.
For example, trading '26 ATL/SAS for '26 MIN/CLE would still have a lot of value for them.
Even if we end up with no FRP in '26 draft it's not the end of the world because we have 5 SRPs that year and could easily move up to mid-20s if we really like someone.

The 25 ATL is the most valuable pick to me because the first half of the lottery looks quite strong, you have a shot at Cooper Flagg or Nolan Traore, and because it's a year sooner than 26. From Utah's perspective I could definitely see the argument the 26 would be the best of our assets though because yeah Trae is probably gone that year and like it or not they're going to be in the AJ Dybantsa / Cameron Boozer sweepstakes for whoever is holding that pick at the time if Trae is out. Agreed on Sochan, the 27 pick gets downgraded to the Spurs pick then (don't think there is any way in hell Ainge will prefer Sochan to the better pick though). The 2030 pick is better than you indicated though since it would be a best of Spurs/Mavs/Wolves with top 1 protection on Mavs/Wolves. Six years from now is a long time and even though both of them are good now might be surprising if they're both still near the top of the conference then.

[scott]

What I'd do if I am the Spurs if the Salary cap allows (which it might not):

Spurs send:

Collins
Keldon
SA26 Swap (Utah gets best of SA/ATL/UTA/MIN/CLE/LAL, SA gets 3rd best of those picks)
SA28
SA30
MIN31

for

Lauri
John Collins

In a separate move:

Spurs send:

Devonte Graham to MIL
Some number of SRPs

for

Brooks Lopez (this is a pure cost cutting move for MIL)

Spurs 2024-25 PLAYOFF TEAM lineup:

CP3/Tre/Wesley
Devin/Branham/Vet Min from somewhere - Lonnie?
Castle/Sochan/Champagnie
Lauri/Collins/Mamu
Wemby/Lopez/Bassey

Castle would be nominal starting SF, but would have a lot of ball handling responsibilities, would have a lot of non-CP3 minutes, with plenty of opportunity to get that mentorship from CP3 and eventually be the starting PG next year. A year at SF with some Point Forward/PG duties allows him to ease into the NBA, show his defensive chops from the jump

I don't actually want John Collins - but I taking him helps Ainge out and allows us to send a 26 swap instead of a 26 outright pick (he has to take our Collins though). I don't love getting John Collins though because he has a player option in 25-26 that he probably excercises.

[vy65]

This is Siakam scenario all over again.

For context, the Raptors got 1) Bruce Brown 2) the 19th pick in the 2024 draft 3) the 29th pick in the 2024 draft and 4) Indy's 2026 1st round pick for Siakam.

I think Siakam is comparable, if not better, than Lauri. But you're talking about a role player and (likely) three non-lottery, mid-to-late 1st round picks for a player on an expiring.

Thinking that through, 2 lottery picks for Lauri could border an overpay.

[timtonymanu]

Oh a 27 page thread wishing and hoping for Markannen when we all know Champenny will be the 1st option SF we stick with. Can’t take minutes away from an obvious non nba level player.

[baseline bum]

What I'd do if I am the Spurs if the Salary cap allows (which it might not):

Spurs send:

Collins
Keldon
SA26 Swap (Utah gets best of SA/ATL/UTA/MIN/CLE/LAL, SA gets 3rd best of those picks)
SA28
SA30
MIN31

for

Lauri
John Collins

In a separate move:

Spurs send:

Devonte Graham to MIL
Some number of SRPs

for

Brooks Lopez (this is a pure cost cutting move for MIL)

Spurs 2024-25 PLAYOFF TEAM lineup:

CP3/Tre/Wesley
Devin/Branham/Vet Min from somewhere - Lonnie?
Castle/Sochan/Champagnie
Lauri/Collins/Mamu
Wemby/Lopez/Bassey

Castle would be nominal starting SF, but would have a lot of ball handling responsibilities, would have a lot of non-CP3 minutes, with plenty of opportunity to get that mentorship from CP3 and eventually be the starting PG next year. A year at SF with some Point Forward/PG duties allows him to ease into the NBA, show his defensive chops from the jump

I think Ainge would insist on the 26 pick with swap unless you're sending him a 25, and I don't want to send either 25 pick.

[scott]

Oh a 27 page thread wishing and hoping for Markannen when we all know Champenny will be the 1st option SF we stick with. Can’t take minutes away from an obvious non nba level player.

I agree with you and think there is a less than 3% chance we actually get Lauri... I think there is a less than 10% chance the Spurs are actually even trying to get Lauri...

But since this FO won't do anything, at least we can pretend.

[scott]

No it doesn't. You'd have a 26 pick, so you'd be fine trading both 25 picks and you could also trade both 27 picks as long as you don't trade the 28 pick.

I don't think you are understanding what I'm saying, but it's not really important so I'll just move on.

[Dejounte]

Angie will drag as long as he can, until he cannot. It will be a couple of days before training camp.

what the fuckkkkk

[vy65]

Thinking this through, if you look at the Siakam and Bridges trades as comps, you have

Siakam for 1) role player 2) the 19th and 29th draft picks in a meh draft and 3) a pick likely in the 20's in 2026.
Bridges for 1) a bad role player 2) 4 picks likely to be in the 20's (for '25, '27, '29, and '31) and 3) two swaps ('28 and '25 (top-four protected)).

Most, if not all, of those picks figure to be in the 20's (NYK 20131 could be interesting).

[baseline bum]

I agree with you and think there is a less than 3% chance we actually get Lauri... I think there is a less than 10% chance the Spurs are actually even trying to get Lauri...

But since this FO won't do anything, at least we can pretend.

I think I'd put it at 20% chance they actually trade for Lauri, and a 99% chance they have talked with Ainge about it. Why would they not have when Markannen is on the block?

[LeBowen]

For context, the Raptors got 1) Bruce Brown 2) the 19th pick in the 2024 draft 3) the 29th pick in the 2024 draft and 4) Indy's 2026 1st round pick for Siakam.

I think Siakam is comparable, if not better, than Lauri. But you're talking about a role player and (likely) three non-lottery, mid-to-late 1st round picks for a player on an expiring.

Thinking that through, 2 lottery picks for Lauri could border an overpay.

I wasn't referring just to the trade, but the entire process.

Warriors were trying hard to get Siakam, reports kept coming in and they didn't offer enough, with another tough negotiator on the other side.
Too bad for that negotiator that he overplayed his cards and let it drag out all the way to the deadline because that package for Siakam was an absolute steal for Indiana.
Bruce Brown wasn't doing well there.

I'd agree that Siakam is a better first option, but if we're talking duos, Markkanen is a way better fit. Siakam's shot is never reliable in the playoffs.


Castle would be nominal starting SF, but would have a lot of ball handling responsibilities, would have a lot of non-CP3 minutes, with plenty of opportunity to get that mentorship from CP3 and eventually be the starting PG next year. A year at SF with some Point Forward/PG duties allows him to ease into the NBA, show his defensive chops from the jump

Your scenarios are similar to mine. That would be a good roster to start the season and then if Castle looks like an actual point guard, I'd trade Tre's expiring for a solid wing at the deadline.
Stagger CP3 and Castle, have one of them on the floor at all times.

Sidenote, but Fontecchio still hasn't signed, I actually think we could be in the running with him being a really poor man's Markkanen as a consolation prize.


I don't actually want John Collins - but I taking him helps Ainge out and allows us to send a 26 swap instead of a 26 outright pick (he has to take our Collins though). I don't love getting John Collins though because he has a player option in 25-26 that he probably excercises.

I actually think he got the short end of the stick in Utah.
He started at C, about as good of an experiment as point Sochan.
His shot seems to be back and I think he's still got some value.

His contract is an overpay, but I'm fine with any overpay contracts that end before Wemby's extension kicks in.

[exstatic]

The 25 ATL is the most valuable pick to me because the first half of the lottery looks quite strong, you have a shot at Cooper Flagg or Nolan Traore, and because it's a year sooner than 26. From Utah's perspective I could definitely see the argument the 26 would be the best of our assets though because yeah Trae is probably gone that year and like it or not they're going to be in the AJ Dybantsa / Cameron Boozer sweepstakes for whoever is holding that pick at the time if Trae is out. Agreed on Sochan, the 27 pick gets downgraded to the Spurs pick then (don't think there is any way in hell Ainge will prefer Sochan to the better pick though). The 2030 pick is better than you indicated though since it would be a best of Spurs/Mavs/Wolves with top 1 protection on Mavs/Wolves. Six years from now is a long time and even though both of them are good now might be surprising if they're both still near the top of the conference then.

The top 1 protection is only on the Wolves. Mavs part is unprotected.

[baseline bum]

The top 1 protection is only on the Wolves. Mavs part is unprotected.

Yeah you're right, I was getting it confused with the 2028 Boston swap that's top 1 protected.

[couchman]

I like LM a lot but in less the price looks really good I’m in favor of a patient approach. I’d rather get him halfway through the year than right now because I see this as a soft tank season.
A full season of LM would add at least 6 wins and could jeopardize our draft position.
25-26 is the season where we make win-now moves.

[scott]

I think I'd put it at 20% chance they actually trade for Lauri, and a 99% chance they have talked with Ainge about it. Why would they not have when Markannen is on the block?

:pop: That's not who we are. We can't skip any steps.

[LeBowen]

I like LM a lot but in less the price looks really good I’m in favor of a patient approach. I’d rather get him halfway through the year than right now because I see this as a soft tank season.
A full season of LM would add at least 6 wins and could jeopardize our draft position.
25-26 is the season where we make win-now moves.

We can't tank if Wemby is healthy and wants to win games. Which he obviously does.
There are like 8 tanking teams, with a handful more that are getting old and close to their expiry date.
How do you plan on tanking with Wemby averaging 25/12/5 with 5 blocks?
If he's healthy, we're at 35 win team. At that point it's irrelevant if we have 9th or 12th best odds in the lottery.

[baseline bum]

:pop: That's not who we are. We can't skip any steps.

Brian Wright has to have talked to Ainge about Markannen; I mean it's his job to be talking to every GM in the league. I hope he's not just browsing Pornhub for 3 hours and then having a three martini lunch every day or some shit.

[scott]

Brian Wright has to have talked to Ainge about Markannen; I mean it's his job to be talking to every GM in the league. I hope he's not just browsing Pornhub for 3 hours and then having a three martini lunch every day or some shit.

Probably in Saskatchewan playing golf with Primo saying "thanks for covering for me back on that therapist issue... could have been really bad for me if they kept asking why I didn't do shit about your episodes"

[vy65]

I like LM a lot but in less the price looks really good I’m in favor of a patient approach. I’d rather get him halfway through the year than right now because I see this as a soft tank season.
A full season of LM would add at least 6 wins and could jeopardize our draft position.
25-26 is the season where we make win-now moves.

I don't think people realize this, but what draft position?

Washington, Portland, Detroit, Chicago, Charlotte, Brooklyn, and Utah all will be absolutely worse than us. We're in a tier with Atlanta and Toronto, meaning we're facing a high probability of two picks outside the top-ten. If something happens to Phoenix, LAL/LAC, or GSW, that puts us in the late lottery. Who exactly are we tanking for at 12 and 15 in the 2025 draft that is going to put us over the hump?

[LeBowen]

I don't think people realize this, but what draft position?

Washington, Portland, Detroit, Chicago, Charlotte, Brooklyn, and Utah all will be absolutely worse than us. We're in a tier with Atlanta and Toronto, meaning we're facing a high probability of two picks outside the top-ten. If something happens to Phoenix, LAL/LAC, or GSW, that puts us in the late lottery. Who exactly are we tanking for at 12 and 15 in the 2025 draft that is going to put us over the hump?

And even if we find a future all-star in late lottery, which isn't that uncommon, it will take time for that player to develop.
Very few all-stars picked outside top5 come into the league ready. They're high risk, high upside players.
Do we really want to watch a young player trying to put it together for like 3 to 5 years while the pressure builds around Wemby to win a title already?

We'll still get those picks even if we trade for Markkanen.

[vy65]

And even if we find a future all-star in late lottery, which isn't that uncommon, it will take time for that player to develop.
Very few all-stars picked outside top5 come into the league ready. They're high risk, high upside players.
Do we really want to watch a young player trying to put it together for like 3 to 5 years while the pressure builds around Wemby to win a title already?

We'll still get those picks even if we trade for Markkanen.

Compounding this is a point Chinook has raised, which is that it takes time for our alpha to become an alpha. We saw it last year with Ant, but Wemby needs reps in the playoffs - and the sooner the better. There is a material difference between Wemby taking his lumps at age 21 vs. age 25.

[LeBowen]

Wemby needs reps in the playoffs - and the sooner the better.

This is the most important thing people leave out.
They think it's like playing 2K, you make some trades and the team is ready to go.

Every all-time great failed over and over again until they got over the hump.
We won't be able to magically go from 25 to 55 wins and WCF.
I'd argue that even making the play-in is worth more than moving a couple spots up in the lottery.

Good that you mentioned ANT, look at the team around him.
He had 36, 31 and 28 year old starters around him, it's not like he carried a team full of young players.

While Wemby might be ready, other young players won't.
SGA had great playoffs because he's got the experience, every single one of his teammates severely underperformed against Dallas.
It was their first playoff run. Coincidence?

[OldMan88]

Compounding this is a point Chinook has raised, which is that it takes time for our alpha to become an alpha. We saw it last year with Ant, but Wemby needs reps in the playoffs - and the sooner the better. There is a material difference between Wemby taking his lumps at age 21 vs. age 25.

True. Wemby needs playoff level experience ASAP, meaning I don’t see the Spurs tanking this year. Time to get in the habit of winning instead of being ok with losing. I remember the 1999 squad & how much that team hated to lose. Mario Ellie in particular would be sure everyone was as unhappy as he was.

[TD 21]

Compounding this is a point Chinook has raised, which is that it takes time for our alpha to become an alpha. We saw it last year with Ant, but Wemby needs reps in the playoffs - and the sooner the better. There is a material difference between Wemby taking his lumps at age 21 vs. age 25.

The difference is, "our" alpha is on the fast track to superstardom (there's only five), while Edwards is in part a media creation because they want their next Captain America to sell to the masses.

James was the last player this good this young (honorable mention to Davis and Doncic). In his 2nd season, he was 2nd in VORP, BPM and 8th in WS/48.

[scott]

I'm also more than slightly concerned that we're entering this mid-way point where internal improvement and CP3 get us to a 35-win team that isn't good enough to make the playoffs and get that experience, but too good to really get the draft position to inject high-end talent. Then it put extra pressure on Wemby to carry the team to greater heights all on his own. This is very much what we did to DRob. We only built a team around him that was second round fodder, and then we relied on him to do the rest of the work. It took an MVP season for him to take us to the WCF. But look at the team we put around him. Avery Johnson, Vinny Del Negro, Jr Reid, Chuck Person.

Sean Elliott and Dennis Rodman were our only other above-replacement level guys on that team, and Rodman missed half the season. Why do we want to go through this again?

[Wilt Chamberlain]

This is the most important thing people leave out.
They think it's like playing 2K, you make some trades and the team is ready to go.

Every all-time great failed over and over again until they got over the hump.
We won't be able to magically go from 25 to 55 wins and WCF.
I'd argue that even making the play-in is worth more than moving a couple spots up in the lottery.

Good that you mentioned ANT, look at the team around him.
He had 36, 31 and 28 year old starters around him, it's not like he carried a team full of young players.

While Wemby might be ready, other young players won't.
SGA had great playoffs because he's got the experience, every single one of his teammates severely underperformed against Dallas.
It was their first playoff run. Coincidence?

Curious to see if Wemby is like Moses Malone was where he would tell young players where they are going wrong and how to fix it or if he will be more like a Kareem or Duncan who were much more aloof.

[vy65]

True. Wemby needs playoff level experience ASAP, meaning I don’t see the Spurs tanking this year. Time to get in the habit of winning instead of being ok with losing. I remember the 1999 squad & how much that team hated to lose. Mario Ellie in particular would be sure everyone was as unhappy as he was.

Then wtf are we doing? If you were right, we should have taken Knecht at 8 and not trade it away for a pick in Donald Trump's 4th term as president.

[vy65]

I'm also more than slightly concerned that we're entering this mid-way point where internal improvement and CP3 get us to a 35-win team that isn't good enough to make the playoffs and get that experience, but too good to really get the draft position to inject high-end talent. Then it put extra pressure on Wemby to carry the team to greater heights all on his own. This is very much what we did to DRob. We only built a team around him that was second round fodder, and then we relied on him to do the rest of the work. It took an MVP season for him to take us to the WCF. But look at the team we put around him. Avery Johnson, Vinny Del Negro, Jr Reid, Chuck Person.

Sean Elliott and Dennis Rodman were our only other above-replacement level guys on that team, and Rodman missed half the season. Why do we want to go through this again?

That's exactly where this is heading. Putting pencil to paper, what overall value is provided to the team's overall direction going 35-47, getting the 12th and 15th picks in the draft, and then heading into Wemby year3?

[scott]

That's exactly where this is heading. Putting pencil to paper, what overall value is provided to the team's overall direction going 35-47, getting the 12th and 15th picks in the draft, and then heading into Wemby year3?

The only possible upside scenario I can see here is if Castle shows some true superstar potential in doing this, and Vassell shows another leap but maybe has some kind of injury that take him out for a number of games and that's the reason we miss the playoffs.

Then, you'd feel pretty good headed into Wemby Year 3 and adding those mid FRPs.

But that's a very specific thread-the-needle scenario that is probably not worth banking on.

But hey, maybe we win 50 games this year because Wemby is him, Vassell takes a huge leap, Sochan learns to shoot, and Castle is a stud. I'm not counting on it... but I guess it's possible. And if that DOES happen... you still are probably kicking yourself that you didn't add a guy like Lauri to that.

[vy65]

The only possible upside scenario I can see here is if Castle shows some true superstar potential in doing this, and Vassell shows another leap but maybe has some kind of injury that take him out for a number of games and that's the reason we miss the playoffs.

Then, you'd feel pretty good headed into Wemby Year 3 and adding those mid FRPs.

But that's a very specific thread-the-needle scenario that is probably not worth banking on.

But hey, maybe we win 50 games this year because Wemby is him, Vassell takes a huge leap, Sochan learns to shoot, and Castle is a stud. I'm not counting on it... but I guess it's possible. And if that DOES happen... you still are probably kicking yourself that you didn't add a gu like Lauri to that.

This

[baseline bum]

Then wtf are we doing? If you were right, we should have taken Knecht at 8 and not trade it away for a pick in Donald Trump's 4th term as president.

I really want to believe they made that trade to make a run at Markannen knowing how much Ainge would value control of Minnesota's draft for two more years, but definitely nervous about projecting competency onto the front office.

[Wilt Chamberlain]

I really want to believe they made that trade to make a run at Markannen knowing how much Ainge would value control of Minnesota's draft for two more years, but definitely nervous about projecting competency onto the front office.

When have you guys been fleeced in trade?

[CGD]

When have you guys been fleeced in trade?

People around these parts are still traumatized by the Kawhi situation, even if they don’t admit it. In fairness those were dark times for the Spurs.

[baseline bum]

When have you guys been fleeced in trade?

Wright's first move in 2018 was pretty awful

[baseline bum]

People around these parts are still traumatized by the Kawhi situation, even if they don’t admit it. In fairness those were dark times for the Spurs.

All they got out of it was Poeltl, next to last pick in the first, and a guy Toronto was going to salary dump to the Spurs anyways if Kawhi had stayed.

[Wilt Chamberlain]

Wright's first move in 2018 was pretty awful

So you think that was a fleecing given Kawhi's actions and stated preference of LA as a destination?

They could have gotten a better deal from the LA teams or another team he wouldn't resign with?

How about the other trades?

Isn't RC Buford you guy's CEO still?

[Dejounte]

https://x.com/spursreporter/status/1808653217930076222?s=46&t=SruoshPxBN1Th5Jk_Axizg

fuck the kings

fuck it. Im going to be like scott and just accept that nothing’s happening. Better for my mental health

[baseline bum]

So you think that was a fleecing given Kawhi's actions and stated preference of LA as a destination?

They could have gotten a better deal from the LA teams or another team he wouldn't resign with?

How about the other trades?

Isn't RC Buford you guy's CEO still?

Drafting Primo 12 has to give you pause when considering the competency of this front office. The guy never showed anything to justify that pick, especially with Sengun on board. His career highlight is hitting a few threes in a preseason game.

[scott]

https://x.com/spursreporter/status/1808653217930076222?s=46&t=SruoshPxBN1Th5Jk_Axizg

fuck the kings

fuck it. Im going to be like scott (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=150) and just accept that nothing’s happening. Better for my mental health

Brian Wright calling Utah, but only to let Ainge know we're here to take any unwanted salary for some SRPs

[baseline bum]

https://x.com/spursreporter/status/1808653217930076222?s=46&t=SruoshPxBN1Th5Jk_Axizg

fuck the kings

fuck it. Im going to be like scott and just accept that nothing’s happening. Better for my mental health

How the hell would the Kings be able to beat the Spurs offer to a team that wants to tank? That'll make me mad as fuck if some team like them without any elite assets to trade to a tanking team lands him.

[vy65]

Drafting Primo 12 has to give you pause when considering the competency of this front office. The guy never showed anything to justify that pick, especially with Sengun on board. His career highlight is hitting a few threes in a preseason game.

Also Vassell > Halliburton
Also 20131 > Rob Dillingham
Also Cash Considerations > Furphy
Also Cam Payne > ???

[scott]

1808654441551384585

Spurs just being used to boost the trade value, tbh. Wright probably on vacation this week. Happy 4th of July!

[vy65]

Brian Wright calling Utah, but only to let Ainge know we're here to take any unwanted salary for some SRPs

We're ready to take Jalen Swalson into space for a 2038 SRP swap (top 55 protected). Just lemme know.

[baseline bum]

1808654441551384585

Spurs just being used to boost the trade value, tbh. Wright probably on vacation this week. Happy 4th of July!

Is he related to TSpence? That dude called the Gasol signing so he's my gold standard even if Don Harris got butthurt about it tbh.

[scott]

What kind of helps and hurts the Spurs here is that unlike the other known suitors (GSW, SAC), the Spurs can make an offer that doesn't hand control of their future over to Ainge. That is good for the Spurs... but maybe not as attractive to Ainge. Ainge already holds MIN and CLE by the ballsack, he might be salivating at the opportunity to add another pair of nuts to his wall. GSW and SAC offer him that opportunity... the Spurs do not.

[slick'81]

Sacramento says they were close:lol

[baseline bum]

Also Vassell > Halliburton
Also 20131 > Rob Dillingham
Also Cash Considerations > Furphy
Also Cam Payne > ???

I can't blame him not picking Haliburton, it's not like Vassell is a bad player and lots of other teams didn't value him correctly either. Guess we'll have to see on the trade for Pick #8. I would have loved to snag Buzelis there but I guess we'll see if they took that trade to have assets Ainge would value. Refusing to pay Furphy was fucking retarded, a league minimum contract is peanuts against the cap.

[LeBowen]

Tbh, if that tweet is true it's all about how much PATFO wants Markkanen.
We can easily beat any Kings or Warriors offer.

[CGD]

All they got out of it was Poeltl, next to last pick in the first, and a guy Toronto was going to salary dump to the Spurs anyways if Kawhi had stayed.

I’m sure Ecstatic has all the receipts for that trade, including down to the most recent FRPs from MIN.

[baseline bum]

What kind of helps and hurts the Spurs here is that unlike the other known suitors (GSW, SAC), the Spurs can make an offer that doesn't hand control of their future over to Ainge. That is good for the Spurs... but maybe not as attractive to Ainge. Ainge already holds MIN and CLE by the ballsack, he might be salivating at the opportunity to add another pair of nuts to his wall. GSW and SAC offer him that opportunity... the Spurs do not.

GSW only offers him the ability to do it in a few years when Curry is gone. The Spurs can hand Atlanta's nuts to him and up him to having control of 6 of the next 7 Minnesota drafts. So you get a good balance of near future and long term ball twist potential with a Spurs offer.

[LeBowen]

Am I wrong to think neither Warriors nor Kings are a good fit for him basketball wise?

Kings are an atrocious defensive team, can't put Markkanen next to Sabonis.
Draymond can't play C with all the size in the conference, but you also don't want Markkanen to play SF.

Markkanen needs a rim protector next to him, his value drops without one.

[exstatic]

All they got out of it was Poeltl, next to last pick in the first, and a guy Toronto was going to salary dump to the Spurs anyways if Kawhi had stayed.

That’s not all we got out of it. It’s the trade that keeps on giving.

[Blizzardwizard]

1808654441551384585

Spurs just being used to boost the trade value, tbh. Wright probably on vacation this week. Happy 4th of July!

SAC receives: Lauri Markkanen/20131 pick swap

UTA receives: Four SAC FRPs/Harrison Barnes/Kevin Huerter/Devonte Graham

SAS receives: Trey Lyles

[NASpurs]

Is Markennan going to sign off in wanting to extend his contract with the decaying corpse that is GSW? Has anyone ever willingly wanted to go to SAC?

Sure our city sucks ass but the dude can build something special with Wemby. I'm smoking that copium.

[CGD]

Tbh, if that tweet is true it's all about how much PATFO wants Markkanen.
We can easily beat any Kings or Warriors offer.

I didn’t appreciate that GSW pretty much have all their picks back (minus a 30FRP top 20 protected to WAS). So the pick part of their offer could top out at:

25FRP
27FRP
26, 28, 29, 31 swaps (tho some of those might be useless)

They also have Podgemski and Moody.

[baseline bum]

SAC receives: Lauri Markkanen/20131 pick swap

UTA receives: Four SAC FRPs/Harrison Barnes/Kevin Huerter/Devonte Graham

SAS receives: Trey Lyles

Oh fuck off, that one hurt to read since it sounds like it could go down like that. :lol

[Manu&Duncan fan]

[QUOTE=scott;11092815]1808654441551384585

Kings can only offer 3 FRPS. We can do 4 or 5 FRPs plus bunch of 2nd rounders. Brian Wright understands how to beat everyone else. He will get this done. No panic.

[Manu&Duncan fan]

Am I wrong to think neither Warriors nor Kings are a good fit for him basketball wise?

Kings are an atrocious defensive team, can't put Markkanen next to Sabonis.
Draymond can't play C with all the size in the conference, but you also don't want Markkanen to play SF.

Markkanen needs a rim protector next to him, his value drops without one.

You got it. That's why Lauri won't pick Kings.

[Wilt Chamberlain]

Drafting Primo 12 has to give you pause when considering the competency of this front office. The guy never showed anything to justify that pick, especially with Sengun on board. His career highlight is hitting a few threes in a preseason game.

Okay they cannot draft. That means they cannot trade why?

[scott]

Okay they cannot draft. That means they cannot trade why?

You ain't asking me, but I'll answer. Because they're fucking cowards.

[Wilt Chamberlain]

1808654441551384585

Kings can only offer 3 FRPS. We can do 4 or 5 FRPs plus bunch of 2nd rounders. Brian Wright understands how to beat everyone else. He will get this done. No panic.

Unless the Kings can offer lottery picks, the Spurs only need 1 or 2 picks of the ATL assets to outvalue any of these playoff teams.

[spurraider21]

Drafting Primo 12 has to give you pause when considering the competency of this front office. The guy never showed anything to justify that pick, especially with Sengun on board. His career highlight is hitting a few threes in a preseason game.
it gets worse. after primo's rookie season they apparently thought he was a "face of the franchise" type player

coming away with that evaluation imo is more egregious than the awful pick itself

[scott]

Gutless worms, to be more accurate.

[Wilt Chamberlain]

Gutless worms, to be more accurate.

You seem to have a lot on your mind.

[exstatic]

SAC receives: Lauri Markkanen/20131 pick swap

UTA receives: Four SAC FRPs/Harrison Barnes/Kevin Huerter/Devonte Graham

SAS receives: Trey Lyles

I sometimes can appreciate why Mr. Body tells people to kill themselves. Not always, but sometimes.

[vy65]

it gets worse. after primo's rookie season they apparently thought he was a "face of the franchise" type player

coming away with that evaluation imo is more egregious than the awful pick itself

https://news4sanantonio.com/resources/media/da091200-935c-443d-b35e-2eda36088505-large16x9_JoshPrimo.PNG?1655862151950

[Joseph Kony]

I sometimes can appreciate why Mr. Body tells people to kill themselves. Not always, but sometimes.
because someone made a joke? :lol

[Joseph Kony]

it gets worse. after primo's rookie season they apparently thought he was a "face of the franchise" type player

coming away with that evaluation imo is more egregious than the awful pick itself

one of the all time head scratchers

[Chinook]

I'm also more than slightly concerned that we're entering this mid-way point where internal improvement and CP3 get us to a 35-win team that isn't good enough to make the playoffs and get that experience, but too good to really get the draft position to inject high-end talent. Then it put extra pressure on Wemby to carry the team to greater heights all on his own. This is very much what we did to DRob. We only built a team around him that was second round fodder, and then we relied on him to do the rest of the work. It took an MVP season for him to take us to the WCF. But look at the team we put around him. Avery Johnson, Vinny Del Negro, Jr Reid, Chuck Person.

Sean Elliott and Dennis Rodman were our only other above-replacement level guys on that team, and Rodman missed half the season. Why do we want to go through this again?

That's why I still push for a vet to join that can actually start and play decent minutes. Like if DeRozan could shoot (so like Bizzaro-DeRozan), he'd be my primary target. It's crazy how bad the 2010-2015 drafts were. Outside of a couple of stars, it's just a graveyard in terms of guys who are still good players in the league today. It's why guys like Randle and Grant are even in the conversation. If only this CBA had contained an amnesty provision, the team could've made a killing off grab decent players off waivers while only paying a portion of what they were owed.

[timtonymanu]

I sometimes can appreciate why Mr. Body tells people to kill themselves. Not always, but sometimes.

Of course, that whole post went over your head.

[baseline bum]

it gets worse. after primo's rookie season they apparently thought he was a "face of the franchise" type player

coming away with that evaluation imo is more egregious than the awful pick itself

Thought that was more Pop than Wright+Buford. Which is even worse I think.

[poopbox]

1808654441551384585

Spurs just being used to boost the trade value, tbh. Wright probably on vacation this week. Happy 4th of July!

Let's be honest, this team doesn't have the courage to trade for Lauri, or for any player in his talent and salary range.

Kawhi, Lamarcus, and to an extent Derozan, castrated the Spurs and they don't have the balls to do big boy trades for big boy players.

Kawhi just told them fuck you I don't want to be here trade me

Lamarcus said nah I'm not coming off the bench and went home, never came back

Derozan said pay the max or I'll play somewhere else.

Real nba players who are good are also demanding, something they will find out the hard way dealing with Victor. He won't be a wide eyed 20 year old forever. A few more years of him watching his contemporaries teams get better while his team just keeps "keeping the powder dry" and he'll be itching to get out to. He'll stay long enough to get super maxed...which is on pace to be around 450 million dollars, and then bounce.

The kings had Haliburton, knew he would be good, but traded him to the Pacers anyway, to get a player in Sabonis to pair with their franchise player Fox. That takes balls. Cause Haliburton came into the league on fire. From the first time he stepped on the court for the Kings he oozed gawd tier offensive talent. But the Kings picked a player, Fox, and they picked a direction, and said this is what we doing and that's just that.

If that is the type of team who is pursuing Lauri, you think this pussy ass front office can even compete with them :lmao

A team who signs the Mcbuckets and Collins of the world are now going to jump up out of nowhere and sign an all star caliber player shooting 50 40 90 in his prime :lmao

This front office is just collecting picks because they are to pussy to do anything else :lmao

These clowns had to pay Chris Paul 11 million dollars to be a babysitter :lmao

[DPG21920]

What kind of helps and hurts the Spurs here is that unlike the other known suitors (GSW, SAC), the Spurs can make an offer that doesn't hand control of their future over to Ainge. That is good for the Spurs... but maybe not as attractive to Ainge. Ainge already holds MIN and CLE by the ballsack, he might be salivating at the opportunity to add another pair of nuts to his wall. GSW and SAC offer him that opportunity... the Spurs do not.

Spurs can offer them complete control over MIN though with that trade they just did…that can be attractive.

ATL 25 + MIN 30 swap + MIN 31 unprotected + Keldon

[scott]

That's why I still push for a vet to join that can actually start and play decent minutes. Like if DeRozan could shoot (so like Bizzaro-DeRozan), he'd be my primary target. It's crazy how bad the 2010-2015 drafts were. Outside of a couple of stars, it's just a graveyard in terms of guys who are still good players in the league today. It's why guys like Randle and Grant are even in the conversation. If only this CBA had contained an amnesty provision, the team could've made a killing off grab decent players off waivers while only paying a portion of what they were owed.

Yeah, while we don't perfectly agree with the tactics I think you and I are pretty well aligned on the overall strategy. A move like that wouldn't be my favorite, but I'd understand it a hell of a lot more than just punting on Top-10 draft picks and soft tanking our way into late lotto picks.

[exstatic]

because someone made a joke? :lol

It’s the constant negative drumbeat.

[DPG21920]

That's why I still push for a vet to join that can actually start and play decent minutes. Like if DeRozan could shoot (so like Bizzaro-DeRozan), he'd be my primary target. It's crazy how bad the 2010-2015 drafts were. Outside of a couple of stars, it's just a graveyard in terms of guys who are still good players in the league today. It's why guys like Randle and Grant are even in the conversation. If only this CBA had contained an amnesty provision, the team could've made a killing off grab decent players off waivers while only paying a portion of what they were owed.

Can Johnson is a clear and obvious target. Position of need and skillset.

[Chinook]

SAC receives: Lauri Markkanen/20131 pick swap

UTA receives: Four SAC FRPs/Harrison Barnes/Kevin Huerter/Devonte Graham

SAS receives: Trey Lyles

Legit, the Spurs could probably use both Barnes and Lyles there. But SAC doesn't need to give up more than Barnes to make this trade work. Sub out Mark for Ingram, and these bones probably work just fine.

[baseline bum]

Spurs can offer them complete control over MIN though with that trade they just did…that can be attractive.

ATL 25 + MIN 30 swap + MIN 31 unprotected + Keldon

Two picks and a swap plus salary ballast ain't gonna get it done with Ainge. Would love to be wrong (as long as it's the Spurs getting him) but that seems more like the kind of trade you could have made with Isiah Thomas or maybe Kahn in Minnesota.

[Chinook]

Can Johnson is a clear and obvious target. Position of need and skillset.

He's not vet enough. I'm talking about over 10 years in the league. Like I wouldn't hate Graham and Collins for Grant right now, especially if they could snag a rotational center with the room exception.

[baseline bum]

Can Johnson is a clear and obvious target. Position of need and skillset.

I'd offer four picks for Markannen long before I'd offer two for Johnson.

[DPG21920]

He's not vet enough. I'm talking about over 10 years in the league. Like I wouldn't hate Graham and Collins for Grant right now, especially if they could snag a rotational center with the room exception.

I dont think he needs to be vet enough when the skillset is a perfect match not only starting but unlocking a lot for the other guys. Im cool with Grant too especially because hes a player that will retain value should SA only want him for a season or two and then trade him

[Wilt Chamberlain]

Spurs can offer them complete control over MIN though with that trade they just did…that can be attractive.

ATL 25 + MIN 30 swap + MIN 31 unprotected + Keldon

I do not see how GSW or Sac could come close to outvaluing that with any 1 of the ATL picks.

[DPG21920]

I'd offer four picks for Markannen long before I'd offer two for Johnson.

Depends on the picks. If Lauri is commanding all the ATL 25+ ATL 27 + Spurs 25 + CHI 25 (4 picks ) and Cam is commanding SA 2029 top 14 protected + CHA pick I’d easily take Cam