There is Markannen to Spurs Buzz

[scott]

There are plenty of people here advocating going "all in". How else am I supposed to read that other than doing whatever it takes?

Maybe I'm reading a different thread, or I just missed it, but I've yet to see anyone present a trade that would decimate our stockpile. Almost everyone seems to draw the line at around 4 picks (most of which would be further out when we *should* be picking late in the round + matching salary (or in other words, just past what GSW could offer).

[Splits]

this might be the dumbest 50+ page thread I've ever witnessed on ST. Get fucking real. There is no way Mark is coming to SA this offseason

[scott]

If it’s premature to praise them, is it premature to criticize them?

Fair question, but IMO, no.

Praise will come from achieving a specific result: winning on the court. We've not seen that yet.

Criticism comes from doing things that don't achieve that specific result, and we have seen that. With that said, the criticism may in fact turn out to be wrong. I hope it does - because that will mean we're back to winning.

Criticism is a lot easier to earn than praise (in all things in life). Glory comes when you prove the critics wrong. I'm hoping that moment comes for Wright and PAFTO.

[TD 21]

PAFTO built the teams that won in the 2000s too. Not really relevant at this point. The league changes. And I already gave him credit for the current Celtics squad.

The point here is that none of Ainge's shrew dealmaking has amounted to shit in Utah, nor have the moves that PAFTO has made in the last 7 years they're getting credit for.

Not defending Ainge, but to be fair, he's been with the Jazz for two years and they haven't been trying to win.

He declared that would change this off season, which is probably why they were rumored interested in myriad big names (probably to pacify the owner, Smith, who likely grew impatient).

Now that that ship has sailed, it's only a matter of time until Markkanen is traded. A team bereft a centerpiece can't afford to screw up their position for the next 2 drafts like they did the last 2 and miss out on the supposed surplus of premium talent incoming.

[MannyIsGod]

I don't expect anything... I just said he's won on trades before he's won games. This is a fact. That doesn't mean Ainge or PAFTO suck, it just means that its a little premature to be taking victory laps. This relates to Quinn (in a separate tweet) lumping the Spurs, Thunder and Celtics as front offices who are better than everyone else. But this iteration of the Spurs FO hasn't turned the corner yet, so it's premature to heap that kind of praise on them.

Sounds like you're disagreeing just to disagree.

I just think that you're really underrating Ainge right now. He's gotten a good return on his trades at Utah, the team who's foundation he built literally just won the title, and I find it insane to put him below Presti who has built a damn good team but it also took him over half a decade and only after he fucked up a team that should have won titles. I'd agree with you if people were high on Ainge due to his old success or what he's done at Utah alone but taken in aggregate there's a reason he's so highly regarded.

[MannyIsGod]

this might be the dumbest 50+ page thread I've ever witnessed on ST. Get fucking real. There is no way Mark is coming to SA this offseason

This thread isn't even int he top 50 of dumb ST threads over 10 pages long.

[scott]

Not defending Ainge, but to be fair, he's been with the Jazz for two years and they haven't been trying to win.

He declared that would change this off season, which is probably why they were rumored interested in myriad big names (probably to pacify the owner, Smith, who likely grew impatient).

Now that that ship has sailed, it's only a matter of time until Markkanen is traded. A team bereft a centerpiece can't afford to screw up their position for the next 2 drafts like they did the last 2 and miss out on the supposed surplus of premium talent incoming.

Again, there isn't really anything to defend Ainge from. All I said is that he's getting praise for winning trades before he wins games. He (like the Spurs), have yet to turn the corner on their respective projects - thus it is premature to call their projects successful. They may in fact be on the right path... but they've yet to succeed, so let's not schedule the parades yet.

[Splits]

be happy with CP0 and Barnes, it ain't getting any better. lmao PATFO doing something like adding Mark, it is wishcasting at its worst

[Splits]

This thread isn't even int he top 50 of dumb ST threads over 10 pages long.

true. which is why I said 50 pages, this is going to rank up there.

[scott]

I just think that you're really underrating Ainge right now. He's gotten a good return on his trades at Utah, the team who's foundation he built literally just won the title, and I find it insane to put him below Presti who has built a damn good team but it also took him over half a decade and only after he fucked up a team that should have won titles. I'd agree with you if people were high on Ainge due to his old success or what he's done at Utah alone but taken in aggregate there's a reason he's so highly regarded.

You are misunderstanding and arguing for nothing.

He, like PAFTO, have a well earned reputation. But their works in progress are still just that... works in progress. Ainge and PAFTO's projects will only be successes if they are successful. Let's not crown them for winning trades until that translates into winning games.

[MannyIsGod]

You are misunderstanding and arguing for nothing.

He, like PAFTO, have a well earned reputation. But their works in progress are still just that... works in progress. Ainge and PAFTO's projects will only be successes if they are successful. Let's not crown them for winning trades until that translates into winning games.

Alright but if EVERYONE in this thread right now is misunderstanding you then I'd argue you're not doing a very good job of making the point you think you are. You led off by saying Ainge doesn't win. I get your point now (though I still think its kind of pointless to say a guy 2 years into a rebuild doesn't win).

[Splits]

we're getting "t-spence Gasol to the Spurs" level delusion here. love scott, he's brilliant, but this is some serious delusional shit

[jesterbobman]

I doubt Lauri moves this offseason, mostly as I think Ainge will value him as a player worth a lot and teams will be reticent given his contract, both in having only 1 year and the low rate making an extension impossible.

I do think the Spurs are, and should be interested, and might as well be flashing a sign to Lauri (and his reps) saying "Hey, we're interested, we're looking to build a contender and be really good for your prime with this French dude you might have heard of. Keep us in mind next offseason."

[MannyIsGod]

If he gets traded for a trash package to Golden State then people should definitely be annoyed with the Spurs FO but if he doesn't get traded the Ainge was probably asking more than would be reasonable.

[TD 21]

Again, there isn't really anything to defend Ainge from. All I said is that he's getting praise for winning trades before he wins games. He (like the Spurs), have yet to turn the corner on their respective projects - thus it is premature to call their projects successful. They may in fact be on the right path... but they've yet to succeed, so let's not schedule the parades yet.

Fair enough, but a lot of luck goes into this. All you can do is utilize the information in hand at the time to make logical moves and hope they pan out as expected in the future.

[scott]

Alright but if EVERYONE in this thread right now is misunderstanding you then I'd argue you're not doing a very good job of making the point you think you are. You led off by saying Ainge doesn't win. I get your point now (though I still think its kind of pointless to say a guy 2 years into a rebuild doesn't win).

This is probably correct.

I'll rephrase my point in a few bullet points:

Ainge and PAFTO have well deserved reputations
They're winning individual deals in their current projects, which earns praise
But their current projects have yet to turn the corner. So while they are winning so battles, they've yet to win (or even compete) in the war, so let's pump the brakes on the overall praise [this relates back to Quinn's tweet saying the Spurs, Thunder and Celtics were basically taking advantage of the rest of the league. One of those teams is not like the others (in their current form)]

[scott]

we're getting "t-spence Gasol to the Spurs" level delusion here. love scott (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=150), he's brilliant, but this is some serious delusional shit

I've been saying for like 40 pages we aren't getting Lauri :lol

I just like talking about it, because (at least to me) it's the super obvious move we should make (which is probably why we are rumored to be involved, though I doubt we actually are)

[scott]

If he gets traded for a trash package to Golden State then people should definitely be annoyed with the Spurs FO but if he doesn't get traded the Ainge was probably asking more than would be reasonable.

Yeah, this is what I said early on as well. If Lauri gets moved for some modest package that we could have easily beat - I'll be pretty bent out of shape. But he extends with Utah or the Warriors give some Godfather offer to, then that's just the way it goes. I'd like to know we at least gave it the ol' college try.

[Splits]

I've been saying for like 40 pages we aren't getting Lauri :lol

I just like talking about it, because (at least to me) it's the super obvious move we should make (which is probably why we are rumored to be involved, though I doubt we actually are)

agreed, I'd trade 5 FRP for him. but it ain't happening. you're adorable

[scott]

Gonna keep this thread alive forever as some kind of bizarro universe Spurs while we're forced to watch Tre/Bran/Champ/Keldon/Collins lineups give up 20-point leads.

[Splits]

give me Patty and Beno and we gotta deal

[CGD]

Gonna keep this thread alive forever as some kind of bizarro universe Spurs while we're forced to watch Tre/Bran/Champ/Keldon/Collins lineups give up 20-point leads.

You son of a bitch, I’m in

[sfernald]

Gonna keep this thread alive forever as some kind of bizarro universe Spurs while we're forced to watch Tre/Bran/Champ/Keldon/Collins lineups give up 20-point leads.

‘in this bizarro universe Tre is out injured so Wesley is in filling his shoes…

[exstatic]

https://x.com/WireHoops/status/1810015804878143638

They’ll trade him if he doesn’t extend.

[exstatic]

With the Spurs having used up all their cap space on the Paul and Barnes acquisitions, they no longer would have the ability to renegotiate the last year of Markkanen’s contract so that the 40% raise on his extension would reach the max.

I think the only teams left with enough space to do that are the Jazz themselves and the Pistons.

Markkanen and his agent therefore have a vested interest in trying to scuttle any trades from the Jazz by suggesting they won’t re-sign.

What makes the most sense for Markkanen is to stay with the Jazz, do the renegotiation and extension ASAP on August 6, and then if the Jazz still want to trade him, they can do so at the trade deadline.

If he extends, he puts his exit timeline in Ainges hands, not his own. He’s allegedly not thrilled with the last two years, and they'll have to tank again, since they have no franchise player. If they win the 2025 lottery, they’ll suck for another year after that. So, maybe they start being not terrible when he’s 29?

[Obstructed_View]

If he extends, he puts his exit timeline in Ainges hands, not his own. He’s allegedly not thrilled with the last two years, and they'll have to tank again, since they have no franchise player. If they win the 2025 lottery, they’ll suck for another year after that. So, maybe they start being not terrible when he’s 29?

I heard that the Utah strip joints are world class. They just have to get someone to manually spin the pole while the dancer is on it.

[Chinook]

If it did, that would be all the more reason for Markkanen to work to scuttle any trade. His best and maybe only chance to reach the max would be with Utah.

So yes, the CBA explicitly bans trades for six months after a renegotiation and bans renegotiatons for sixth months after trades with no exceptions

Markkanen is only at risk of losing the renegotiate salary this year. He's not at risk of losing a max next year. Anyone who trades for him would be willing to max him unless we reach a point where no one wants him and a team takes him as a pure rental for cheap.

[Extra Stout]

So yes, the CBA explicitly bans trades for six months after a renegotiation and bans renegotiatons for sixth months after trades with no exceptions

Markkanen is only at risk of losing the renegotiate salary this year. He's not at risk of losing a max next year. Anyone who trades for him would be willing to max him unless we reach a point where no one wants him and a team takes him as a pure rental for cheap.
Teams might be willing to max him, but doesn’t that 40% limit apply unless teams have the cap space?

[scott]

Teams might be willing to max him, but doesn’t that 40% limit apply unless teams have the cap space?

IIRC, the 40% only applies to extensions - any team can sign him to the max if they have the cap space and any team can re-sign him to a bigger max with Bird rights if they trade for him now. So in that respect, it benefits him to be traded now rather than waiting to be a FA.

[The Truth #6]

Big picture, can the FO still trade for LM after this latest trade? I'm trying to see the forest and not the trees, so to speak.

[scott]

Big picture, can the FO still trade for LM after this latest trade? I'm trying to see the forest and not the trees, so to speak.

Yes. Pretty much everyone who was previously reportedly interested in Lauri can still go after him. His salary is easy to match. In theory, even the Kings could probably make it work somehow if they really wanted (though they probably don't).

The main change for the Spurs is that now they'd definitely have to send out enough salary whereas before they could send out less and absorb the difference into space.

[baseline bum]

Big picture, can the FO still trade for LM after this latest trade? I'm trying to see the forest and not the trees, so to speak.

Yeah, but they'd have to either send Keldon or Collins out to match salary. Which I expected them to do all along if they made a Markannen trade anyways.

[DPG21920]

Ya - I highly doubt sa was not going to send out players anyways, and even if that was the case there’s teams like DET more than willing to take salary for draft comp

[The Truth #6]

Thanks for the succinct answers. I know I'm late to the party here, and don't follow the subtle nuances of Jazz basketball, but as a team rebuilding why would the Jazz not want to make him part of their future plans?

[SpursFan86]

Thanks for the succinct answers. I know I'm late to the party here, and don't follow the subtle nuances of Jazz basketball, but as a team rebuilding why would the Jazz not want to make him part of their future plans?

If they’re concerned that he’s unhappy in Utah and may look to jump ship to go somewhere else next offseason, now is their chance to get a good haul of assets in return. The timing is especially good because the upcoming 2025 draft is considered to be extremely strong. If there’s a year to tank and have multiple shots in the draft then 2025 is a good year to do it.

[Mr. Body]

Thanks for the succinct answers. I know I'm late to the party here, and don't follow the subtle nuances of Jazz basketball, but as a team rebuilding why would the Jazz not want to make him part of their future plans?

He's not really a lead star, he's already 27. Not really a player to build around. The Jazz have so little talent that tearing down to the studs is the way to go.

[exstatic]

Thanks for the succinct answers. I know I'm late to the party here, and don't follow the subtle nuances of Jazz basketball, but as a team rebuilding why would the Jazz not want to make him part of their future plans?

They certainly want him. The question is, does he want them?

[scott]

Thanks for the succinct answers. I know I'm late to the party here, and don't follow the subtle nuances of Jazz basketball, but as a team rebuilding why would the Jazz not want to make him part of their future plans?

At least so far, he's raised their floor to a place that prevents them from doing what they really need to do, which is bottom out for their future star. He's kind of like DDR and DJM were for us, bouying them to 30+ win seasons when they need a 15-win season. His first year in Utah, in particular, was interesting because that was the Wemby year and they were a pre-season favorite for one of the worst teams in the league, then Lauri broke out and had them in play-in contention before they shut him down for the year.

[sfernald]

At least so far, he's raised their floor to a place that prevents them from doing what they really need to do, which is bottom out for their future star. He's kind of like DDR and DJM were for us, bouying them to 30+ win seasons when they need a 15-win season. His first year in Utah, in particular, was interesting because that was the Wemby year and they were a pre-season favorite for one of the worst teams in the league, then Lauri broke out and had them in play-in contention before they shut him down for the year.

Also I haven’t seen this mentioned here. Lauri was sat games many times in the last two years and reportedly he has said he refuses to tank any more. So if Utah does want to tank then it’s quite possible he refuses to sign with them which would really kill Utahs leverage. I think it’s highly likely he is traded before August 6th or whatever his deadline to sign is. In fact I’m sure it’s comfortably before that.

[LeBowen]

Also I haven’t seen this mentioned here. Lauri was sat games many times in the last two years and reportedly he has said he refuses to tank any more. So if Utah does want to tank then it’s quite possible he refuses to sign with them which would really kill Utahs leverage. I think it’s highly likely he is traded before August 6th or whatever his deadline to sign is. In fact I’m sure it’s comfortably before that.

I mentioned it many times. He publicly said he'd like to stay in Utah and compete.
He wasn't happy after they shut him down for no reason.

In his two seasons in Utah, their win percentage is 46% with him and 32% without him.

[scott]

Also I haven’t seen this mentioned here. Lauri was sat games many times in the last two years and reportedly he has said he refuses to tank any more. So if Utah does want to tank then it’s quite possible he refuses to sign with them which would really kill Utahs leverage. I think it’s highly likely he is traded before August 6th or whatever his deadline to sign is. In fact I’m sure it’s comfortably before that.

I agree - gaming this all out, I'm convinced that Ainge/Zanik know they need to move Lauri, they're just trying to squeeze every last drop from suitors. It's not in Utah's best long-term interest to extend him. And the gig is up as soon as Aug 6 comes around because then a threat (extending with Utah) will get taken off the board. I'd expect him to get dealt as we get closer to the 6th.

[Kevin]

Playing around with a three team Jazz/Spurs/Pistons deal with the Jazz saving about 18M over two years in addition to getting picks.

Spurs Get:
Lauri 18M
John Collins 26M

Jazz Get:
Zollins 16M
Evan Fournier 19M expiring
One of the ATL picks
2030 Swaps
2031 Minny pick

Pistion Get:
Keldon 19M

Fournier and Lauri's deals cancel out but Zollins makes about 18M less than John Collins over the next two years. Sure JC is the better player but the Jazz would be tanking anyway and a 18M cash savings would be pretty nice in addition to the picks. Pistons get Keldon for free and cant complain.

[spurraider21]

Playing around with a three team Jazz/Spurs/Pistons deal with the Jazz saving about 18M over two years in addition to getting picks.

Spurs Get:
Lauri 18M
John Collins 26M

Jazz Get:
Zollins 16M
Evan Fournier 19M expiring
One of the ATL picks
2030 Swaps
2031 Minny pick

Pistion Get:
Keldon 19M

Fournier and Lauri's deals cancel out but Zollins makes about 18M less than John Collins over the next two years. Sure JC is the better player but the Jazz would be tanking anyway and a 18M cash savings would be pretty nice in addition to the picks. Pistons get Keldon for free and cant complain.
you have the spurs unloading 35m of salary but getting back 44

we dont have cap room, so salaries have to match

also fournier's option was declined and he is currently a free agent

[kobyz]

Playing around with a three team Jazz/Spurs/Pistons deal with the Jazz saving about 18M over two years in addition to getting picks.

Spurs Get:
Lauri 18M
John Collins 26M

Jazz Get:
Zollins 16M
Evan Fournier 19M expiring
One of the ATL picks
2030 Swaps
2031 Minny pick

Pistion Get:
Keldon 19M

Fournier and Lauri's deals cancel out but Zollins makes about 18M less than John Collins over the next two years. Sure JC is the better player but the Jazz would be tanking anyway and a 18M cash savings would be pretty nice in addition to the picks. Pistons get Keldon for free and cant complain.

Spurs should not gift even one lottery pick in a trade for Lauri, Spurs left as the only team in his running, with Warriors after latest moves won't trade for him as they'll reach the second apron, and even before you couldn't see Lauri agree to sign extension there

[scott]

Spurs should not gift even one lottery pick in a trade for Lauri, Spurs left as the only team in his running, with Warriors after latest moves won't trade for him as they'll reach the second apron, and even before you couldn't see Lauri agree to sign extension there

Not that I necessarily disagree with your logic - but the Warriors are not out of the running. It's an easy move for the Warriors if they send out Wiggins + draft capital.

[kobyz]

Not that I necessarily disagree with your logic - but the Warriors are not out of the running. It's an easy move for the Warriors if they send out Wiggins + draft capital.
they doesn't have enough draft capitals to make Utah take Wiggins while also giving them Lauri, and Markannen doesn't make sense for warriors after their latest moves

[montgod]

Spurs should not gift even one lottery pick in a trade for Lauri, Spurs left as the only team in his running, with Warriors after latest moves won't trade for him as they'll reach the second apron, and even before you couldn't see Lauri agree to sign extension there

Fully agree. No way the FO give up that much for a player that still needs to be maxed out. And no way Spurs want Collins (not that this trade works as others have side w/Spurs not having cap space for both players), especially when they could have gotten him dirt cheap a year or so ago.

[kobyz]

.

[scott]

they doesn't have enough draft capitals to make Utah take Wiggins while also giving them Lauri, and Markannen doesn't make sense for warriors after their latest moves

I don't agree, but I hope you are right... because that is where the Spurs have an opportunity to swoop in.

[Kevin]

Fully agree. No way the FO give up that much for a player that still needs to be maxed out. And no way Spurs want Collins (not that this trade works as others have side w/Spurs not having cap space for both players), especially when they could have gotten him dirt cheap a year or so ago.

With Keldon and Zollins getting sent out the Spurs could take on JC without being anywhere near the luxury tax. People are too fixated with cap space. If the Spurs add Lauri cap space is a thing of the past especially when Wemby gets paid.

[Manu&Duncan fan]

Thanks for the succinct answers. I know I'm late to the party here, and don't follow the subtle nuances of Jazz basketball, but as a team rebuilding why would the Jazz not want to make him part of their future plans?

Jazz didn't show any sign of wanting him to stay. You can tell by the fact that they haven't signed any decent free agent yet. That clearly indicated that Jazz wants to crash tank.

[spurraider21]

With Keldon and Zollins getting sent out the Spurs could take on JC without being anywhere near the luxury tax. People are too fixated with cap space. If the Spurs add Lauri cap space is a thing of the past especially when Wemby gets paid.
its not a question about whether or not we hit the tax number, its a question of whether the trade is legal if the salaries dont sufficiently match. the one here where we get collins and lauri for keldon and zollins is not an nba legal trade because we receive too much salary back (without having cap space to absorb the difference)

[spurraider21]

with that said, kinda wild that john collins is younger than Markkanen

[Kevin]

its not a question about whether or not we hit the tax number, its a question of whether the trade is legal if the salaries dont sufficiently match. the one here where we get collins and lauri for keldon and zollins is not an nba legal trade because we receive too much salary back (without having cap space to absorb the difference)

It worked in ESPN NBA Trade Machine.

[scott]

It worked in ESPN NBA Trade Machine.

Trade machine likely isn't updated for Paul/Barnes moves.

Before Barnes, that trade could have worked. Now it doesn't.

[LeBowen]

its not a question about whether or not we hit the tax number, its a question of whether the trade is legal if the salaries dont sufficiently match. the one here where we get collins and lauri for keldon and zollins is not an nba legal trade because we receive too much salary back (without having cap space to absorb the difference)

We can easily match the salary by adding Tre.
Or Jeremy and Malaki.

If taking their Collins lowers the price and adding Tre or Jeremy lowers it even more, it's a no brainer, tbh.
Obviously we'd be in Knicks/Pacers situation with OG/Siakam, but these deals aren't made without a promise for extension.
Cap is projected to rise by another $14M next summer, having Collins on the books wouldn't be an issue when it comes to extending Lauri.

[baseline bum]

With Keldon and Zollins getting sent out the Spurs could take on JC without being anywhere near the luxury tax. People are too fixated with cap space. If the Spurs add Lauri cap space is a thing of the past especially when Wemby gets paid.

You can't take back that much more salary than you send when you don't have cap space, which the Spurs don't after trading for Barnes and signing Paul.

[slick'81]

Sooo is the buzz dead?

[baseline bum]

It worked in ESPN NBA Trade Machine.

ESPN Trade Machine hasn't updated in a few days. They still have Graham on the Spurs and don't have Barnes or Paul there yet.

[exstatic]

Not that I necessarily disagree with your logic - but the Warriors are not out of the running. It's an easy move for the Warriors if they send out Wiggins + draft capital.

Their offer is Wiggins. Utah wants Kuminga.

[baseline bum]

Sooo is the buzz dead?

Nope Spurs can still trade for Markannen, they just can't absorb him into cap space any more. Easiest ways to match salary would be Keldon or Collins, though they could do it in aggregate with something like Tre, Sochan, and Branham (though would hate giving up Tre and Sochan unless Utah is willing to take less picks).

[exstatic]

It worked in ESPN NBA Trade Machine.

Not updated to reflect CP or Barnes and our complete lack of cap room now.

[baseline bum]

Their offer is Wiggins. Utah wants Kuminga.

Utah won't get Kuminga and GSW's unprotected post-Curry picks (assuming they can square their 2030 draft situation away first). If they want those picks they're taking Wiggins. Same way they're taking Collins or Keldon and not Vassell if they want say two of the Atlanta picks and the picks to control Minnesota's 2030 and 2031 draft.

[LeBowen]

Someone in Warriors front office needs to be an adult and put an end to Markkanen nonsense.
He's not a great fit there. You don't want him at SF, but Draymond can't play C at this age and dwith all the size around the conference.
They're a play-in team as of now, trading all of your picks away when Steph has just a couple of years left would be idiotic. Their best case scenario is still a first round exit.

I'd say that if they're dumb enough to re-negotiate and remove protections from that '30 pick so they have three FRPs to trade, Ainge is going to take the offer.
Three unprotected post-Steph FRPs are gold.
But I don't think they're dumb enough to make that move.

Markkanen needs a great rim protector, not a good fit anywhere else.
Lakers, Thunder, Heat and Spurs are the best destinations for him.
Thunder made their moves and aren't interested because of all the impending max contracts.
Lakers and Heat have nothing to offer.

Leaving us with poorly ran teams and Spurs trying to outsmart Ainge.
Like what was Markkanen going to do in Sacramento with Sabonis "protecting" the rim?

[scott]

Their offer is Wiggins. Utah wants Kuminga.

I understand that, but Kuminga doesn't work salary wise UNLESS the Warriors are still allowed to aggregate players (not sure if they are). I know they are hard capped at the first apron.

[baseline bum]

I understand that, but Kuminga doesn't work salary wise UNLESS the Warriors are still allowed to aggregate players (not sure if they are). I know they are hard capped at the first apron.

On top of that there is no reason to trade for Markannen if they're mortgaging both their future and their present.

[scott]

Nope Spurs can still trade for Markannen, they just can't absorb him into cap space any more. Easiest ways to match salary would be Keldon or Collins, though they could do it in aggregate with something like Tre, Sochan, and Branham (though would hate giving up Tre and Sochan unless Utah is willing to take less picks).

I don't believe the Spurs would need to add on anyone else - they could just send out Keldon or Collins, because they can take back 125% of what they send out. Keldon actually makes more than Lauri this year ($19MM vs $18MM for Lauri) and Collin's $16.7 works as well.

Spurs COULD send out more (like Tre or Sochan or anyone else) because Utah can absorb that into cap space.

[baseline bum]

I don't believe the Spurs would need to add on anyone else - they could just send out Keldon or Collins, because they can take back 125% of what they send out. Keldon actually makes more than Lauri this year ($19MM vs $18MM for Lauri) and Collin's $16.7 works as well.

Spurs COULD send out more (like Tre or Sochan or anyone else) because Utah can absorb that into cap space.

I was using Tre + Sochan + Branham as an example if they said no to Keldon or Collins as the salary back, assuming this trade doesn't happen right away while the Jazz would still have capspace.

[scott]

If the Warriors were willing to send out Kuminga AND they are allowed to still aggregate players, then the only combinations that work are Kuminga + Looney or Kuminga + GPII. Kuminga + Moody wouldn't be enough salary going out.

[scott]

I was using Tre + Sochan + Branham as an example if they said no to Keldon or Collins as the salary back, assuming this trade doesn't happen right away with the Jazz would still have capspace.

Gotcha. $14.4MM is the number over the cap teams have to get to to make it legal and take back Lauri. So the Spurs could do Tre + Sochan (plus whatever else) and have it work.

Beyond that it would get messy. Jeremy + Branham + Champ + Blake/Bassey (only one of them required) + Sidy would work... but Utah ain't taking back 5 scrubs, and if the Spurs have to waive Champ and Bassey to make Barnes work, that's off the table.

[objective]

David Locke on today's Locked on Jazz touched on reports that the Jazz were backing off on trading Markkannen. The only thing that I thought was noteworthy among the talk of the Kings pursuit being over because they refused to include Keegan Murray was the Athletic report that Ainge, Zanuck, and Markkannen are all on the same page and in lock step and such

Could be more ainge smoke, but if it's true that Markkannen is in the loop and on the same page as them, it seems unlikely he would demand the Spurs and only the Spurs

[baseline bum]

Gotcha. $14.4MM is the number over the cap teams have to get to to make it legal and take back Lauri. So the Spurs could do Tre + Sochan (plus whatever else) and have it work.

Beyond that it would get messy. Jeremy + Branham + Champ + Blake/Bassey (only one of them required) + Sidy would work... but Utah ain't taking back 5 scrubs, and if the Spurs have to waive Champ and Bassey to make Barnes work, that's off the table.

I want to send Branham out in any trade possible tbh

[Kevin]

I don't believe the Spurs would need to add on anyone else - they could just send out Keldon or Collins, because they can take back 125% of what they send out. Keldon actually makes more than Lauri this year ($19MM vs $18MM for Lauri) and Collin's $16.7 works as well.

Spurs COULD send out more (like Tre or Sochan or anyone else) because Utah can absorb that into cap space.

I did the math and if the Spurs throw in one of Mal or Blake they could afford Lauri and JC even after the CP3 Barnes deals.

[scott]

David Locke on today's Locked on Jazz touched on reports that the Jazz were backing off on trading Markkannen. The only thing that I thought was noteworthy among the talk of the Kings pursuit being over because they refused to include Keegan Murray was the Athletic report that Ainge, Zanuck, and Markkannen are all on the same page and in lock step and such

Could be more ainge smoke, but if it's true that Markkannen is in the loop and on the same page as them, it seems unlikely he would demand the Spurs and only the Spurs

Thanks for putting in the work for us and listening to Locked On Jazz.

I don't think any player, aside from maybe some French national with a connection to Wemby, is ever going to do a Dame move and request a trade to ONLY us.

Lauri does seem like the kind of guy to be willing to suck it up, suffer through another tank, and stay loyal to a team like Utah. I just still can't understand why this makes sense for the Jazz. They really need to bottom out unless they are hoping they'll land their #1 (Lauri is not a #1, I agree with that - but he is an ideal #2) by aggregating promising young players and draft picks. But let's be honest... true #1s are getting traded or moving around, aside from Durant. All the other disgruntled superstar trades have been for #2 or AT BEST #1b type of guys (Dame, Mitchell, Gobert, Harden, Kyrie, Bridges, PG, Siakam, OG, etc).

The only TRUE #1 players who moved that I can think of are KD, AD and Kawhi. But I don't see Luka, Ant, Giannis, Embiid, Jokic, Wemby, Shai, Tatum or Steph (my list of true #1 stars in the NBA) asking for a trade anytime soon... and it ain't gonna be to fucking Utah :lol

[MannyIsGod]

David Locke on today's Locked on Jazz touched on reports that the Jazz were backing off on trading Markkannen. The only thing that I thought was noteworthy among the talk of the Kings pursuit being over because they refused to include Keegan Murray was the Athletic report that Ainge, Zanuck, and Markkannen are all on the same page and in lock step and such

Could be more ainge smoke, but if it's true that Markkannen is in the loop and on the same page as them, it seems unlikely he would demand the Spurs and only the Spurs

Yeah I don't think they're really trying to trade him right now. He's a good player for them to hold onto so really doesn't make much sense for them to ship him out and I doubt any light offer is going to get things done.

[MannyIsGod]

Thanks for putting in the work for us and listening to Locked On Jazz.

I don't think any player, aside from maybe some French national with a connection to Wemby, is ever going to do a Dame move and request a trade to ONLY us.

Lauri does seem like the kind of guy to be willing to suck it up, suffer through another tank, and stay loyal to a team like Utah. I just still can't understand why this makes sense for the Jazz. They really need to bottom out unless they are hoping they'll land their #1 (Lauri is not a #1, I agree with that - but he is an ideal #2) by aggregating promising young players and draft picks. But let's be honest... true #1s are getting traded or moving around, aside from Durant. All the other disgruntled superstar trades have been for #2 or AT BEST #1b type of guys (Dame, Mitchell, Gobert, Harden, Kyrie, Bridges, PG, Siakam, OG, etc).

The only TRUE #1 players who moved that I can think of are KD, AD and Kawhi. But I don't see Luka, Ant, Giannis, Embiid, Jokic, Wemby, Shai, Tatum or Steph (my list of true #1 stars in the NBA) asking for a trade anytime soon... and it ain't gonna be to fucking Utah :lol

I don't know that they need to bottom out, honestly. Flattened lottery odds, and they can dump some other players. I think more importantly they need to get their coach on the same page lol.

[scott]

Slightly on topic, the Ringer updated their list of the Top 100 players - https://nbarankings.theringer.com/

Of Note to the Spurs and things talked about:

Wemby up to #17. I think he'll be Top 10 by Dec 31, and maybe Top 5 by end of next season.

Devin is #74.

Austin Reaves is #76 (threw this one in for fun)>

Lauri is #28.

Derrick White is #37, sandwiched in between Trae Young (36) and James Harden (38). So proud of our prince.

[scott]

I don't know that they need to bottom out, honestly. Flattened lottery odds, and they can dump some other players. I think more importantly they need to get their coach on the same page lol.

Meh, it's the same argument that was talked about with the Demar and DJM Spurs. Sure, with some lucky lotto luck those 11 (Vassell), 12 (Primo), 9 (Sochan) picks could have been #1 picks (Ant, Cade, Paolo)... but that's using hope as a strategy. Specifically with the strength of the 2025 draft, it makes a lot of sense for Utah to bottom out this year. Going to be hard to do that unless they severely throttle Lauri's games again.

[Seventyniner]

I'd say that if they're dumb enough to re-negotiate and remove protections from that '30 pick so they have three FRPs to trade, Ainge is going to take the offer.
Three unprotected post-Steph FRPs are gold.
But I don't think they're dumb enough to make that move.

fwiw the 2030 pick that the Warriors owe to the Wizards is protected 1-20. The Warriors can trade the 1-20 portion of that pick to the Jazz, a form of reverse protection, without having to negotiate with the Wizards at all.

[MannyIsGod]

Meh, it's the same argument that was talked about with the Demar and DJM Spurs. Sure, with some lucky lotto luck those 11 (Vassell), 12 (Primo), 9 (Sochan) picks could have been #1 picks (Ant, Cade, Paolo)... but that's using hope as a strategy. Specifically with the strength of the 2025 draft, it makes a lot of sense for Utah to bottom out this year. Going to be hard to do that unless they severely throttle Lauri's games again.

But there's middle ground between the bottom 4 and the top 4 in the lottery where the odds aren't as good, but they're also not insignificant and you get to keep the guy who's already a #2. We can laude the Spurs bottoming out all we want but that's simply because of that hope you mention. We got incredibly Lucky to get Wemby, but if we hadn't, we'd be easily on course for yet another year of bottoming out and that shit has serious ramifications for the franchise.

The Jazz can be in the bottom 1/4 of records without getting rid of their most talented guy. They should get rid of others like Clarkson to do that and make sure Hardy stops shooting their plans in the foot.

[scott]

But there's middle ground between the bottom 4 and the top 4 in the lottery where the odds aren't as good, but they're also not insignificant and you get to keep the guy who's already a #2.

The point is that Utah hasn't been bad enough to be in that middle ground. They've had the 9 pick and 10 pick in consecutive drafts. There's going to be some hard tankers this upcoming season, and Utah is basically running back the same team that's landed at 9 and 10. That's about where I'd project them again this coming year (though Tankathon currently has them ranked 4th worst). Personally I'd put BKN, WAS, CHI, DET, POR, TOR, and maybe CHA all below them, slotting UTA 7th. Of course anything can happen, but seems like it's in Utah's best interest to bottom out here. Personally, I'd hate to finish 7th, 6 games ahead of having a Bottom-4 record, in next year's class.

Interesting side note: 6 of the 8 worst teams in Tankathon's current projections (BKN, WAS, DET, UTA, CHA, POR, CHI, TOR) all have picks they are protecting, all are protected 1-10 or better (some are Top 13 or Top 14).


We can laude the Spurs bottoming out all we want but that's simply because of that hope you mention. We got incredibly Lucky to get Wemby, but if we hadn't, we'd be easily on course for yet another year of bottoming out and that shit has serious ramifications for the franchise.

The Jazz can be in the bottom 1/4 of records without getting rid of their most talented guy. They should get rid of others like Clarkson to do that and make sure Hardy stops shooting their plans in the foot.

Yes, they got incredibly lucky because the Top Prize required getting down to Bottom 4 to have a 14% chance. This year's Top Prize is probably 3-5 players deep, so you can do yourself a lot of favors by maximizing your odds there.

If you believe the 2025 class to be 5-deep for a franchise player, you give yourself a 100% chance of finishing in-the-money with the worst record. 80% chance with the second worst record, 67% chance with the third worst, and so on. Seventh worst, when I currently project Utah (which is up for debate) is only a 32% chance to finish in the money.

This is the basis for my belief that Utah should bottom out, not to mention that Lauri's timeline doesn't fit. Wemby is special, so a 27-year old Lauri fits his timeline. But it's going to take Cooper Flagg or Ace Bailey or whoever 3 years to be ready, at which time Lauri will be 30.

[Manu&Duncan fan]

David Locke on today's Locked on Jazz touched on reports that the Jazz were backing off on trading Markkannen. The only thing that I thought was noteworthy among the talk of the Kings pursuit being over because they refused to include Keegan Murray was the Athletic report that Ainge, Zanuck, and Markkannen are all on the same page and in lock step and such

Could be more ainge smoke, but if it's true that Markkannen is in the loop and on the same page as them, it seems unlikely he would demand the Spurs and only the Spurs

This is pure smoke from Ainge.

After leaking the "aggressive offer" or "substantial offer" by Warrior and Kings, this is the only smoke left.

Spurs won't bulge, because that already made an offer that one one can or (is willing) beat.

Lauri will be a spur before training camp. Book it guys.

[BatManu20]

Ainge would be dumb to hold onto Lauri. Jazz are currently stuck in NBA Purgatory like the Spurs were 2 years ago before trading Dejounte. They desperately need to rebuild and should absolutely tank this season for a stacked 2025 Draft Class, but can't do so with Lauri on the roster. Holding onto him and risking him getting injured or not playing well this season and losing value would be unwise. Lauri's value will never be higher than it is right now. Ainge is just being a stubborn ass as usual, which he has every right to be as their GM. But holding not his out of pride would be foolish in the long run.

[spurraider21]

Ainge would be dumb to hold onto Lauri. Jazz are currently stuck in NBA Purgatory like the Spurs were 2 years ago before trading Dejounte. They desperately need to rebuild and should absolutely tank this season for a stacked 2025 Draft Class, but can't do so with Lauri on the roster. Holding onto him and risking him getting injured or not playing well this season and losing value would be unwise. Lauri's value will never be higher than it is right now. Ainge is just being a stubborn ass as usual, which he has every right to be as their GM. But holding not his out of pride would be foolish in the long run.
somebody pointed out that ainge isnt actually the GM for Utah but everybody (including myself) still assumes he runs the show

[Mugen]

Markkanen will be moved, just a matter of when and for what. The '25 draft class is too loaded and Lauri keeps the Jazz okay enough to keep them out of the top 5. Ainge & Co. aren't stupid tbh.

[scott]

somebody pointed out that ainge isnt actually the GM for Utah but everybody (including myself) still assumes he runs the show

Yeah, I've been trying to use Ainge/Zanik as much as possible, or AATFO (but don't want people think think its a PATFO typo - though I mistakenly write PAFTO all the time)

[mo7888]

This is pure smoke from Ainge.

After leaking the "aggressive offer" or "substantial offer" by Warrior and Kings, this is the only smoke left.

Spurs won't bulge, because that already made an offer that one one can or (is willing) beat.

Lauri will be a spur before training camp. Book it guys.

I do think it's more likely at this point than not..

[exstatic]

This is pure smoke from Ainge.

After leaking the "aggressive offer" or "substantial offer" by Warrior and Kings, this is the only smoke left.

Spurs won't bulge, because that already made an offer that one one can or (is willing) beat.

Lauri will be a spur before training camp. Book it guys.

Not sure about that, but if he doesn’t extend, he’ll be gone by the trade deadline.

[LeBowen]

Not sure about that, but if he doesn’t extend, he’ll be gone by the trade deadline.

I don't see him making it to the opening night if he doesn't extend.
The offers will keep getting worse since it will be obvious he's not extending, no desperate contender has enough assets and tanking teams won't care mid-season.

Obviously we can't know what are the actual offers Ainge has on the table, but I don't think they'll get any better.
Ainge can easily overplay his cards and look like an idiot yet again.

[scott]

I don't see him making it to the opening night if he doesn't extend.
The offers will keep getting worse since it will be obvious he's not extending, no desperate contender has enough assets and tanking teams won't care mid-season.

Obviously we can't know what are the actual offers Ainge has on the table, but I don't think they'll get any better.
Ainge can easily overplay his cards and look like an idiot yet again.

Yeah, I think there is a decent chance we see movement as soon as this week as teams like the Kings and maybe the Warriors drop out of the race. Ainge will see the momentum moving that way and not want to lose anything from the offer(s) he currently has. This Locked on Jazz "news" might be his last public effort to hold on to some leverage.

[scott]

OR... maybe they just extend. It's not what I would do if I were AATFO, but they get paid to do this and I don't.

[exstatic]

I don't see him making it to the opening night if he doesn't extend.
The offers will keep getting worse since it will be obvious he's not extending, no desperate contender has enough assets and tanking teams won't care mid-season.

Obviously we can't know what are the actual offers Ainge has on the table, but I don't think they'll get any better.
Ainge can easily overplay his cards and look like an idiot yet again.

Ange is a giant douche who will drag this out as long as possible, just because he can,

[LeBowen]

Ange is a giant douche who will drag this out as long as possible, just because he can,

Obviously, but he probably learned his lesson and understands his position gets worse with each passing day without an extension after August 6th.

[scott]

Obviously, but he probably learned his lesson and understands his position gets worse with each passing day without an extension after August 6th.

Honestly it's getting worse with each passing day now, as teams decide they're not going to fuck around and wait for Ainge. SAC has already moved on, if GSW moves on then Ainge might find that he played himself.

[exstatic]

Obviously, but he probably learned his lesson and understands his position gets worse with each passing day without an extension after August 6th.

Actually, I think it has to be ON August 6th to skirt the 6 month trade moratorium on the day of the trade deadline.

[ismael-robert]

There's no buzz never was just made up stuff by media n yall spent 54 pgs guzzling it

[BatManu20]

Honestly it's getting worse with each passing day now, as teams decide they're not going to fuck around and wait for Ainge. SAC has already moved on, if GSW moves on then Ainge might find that he played himself.


Exactly. I get being stubborn as a GM but in this particular situation, Ainge and Co. might overplay their hand and wind up getting a much smaller return than they could've gotten had they traded him last week. If he's waiting for a Bridges-like package of 5 FRP's + a player, he's likely going to play himself.

[BatManu20]

somebody pointed out that ainge isnt actually the GM for Utah but everybody (including myself) still assumes he runs the show

No doubt he's at least highly involved in the decision-making process. Their GM Justin Zanik comes from within the organization so I imagine he's probably pretty subservient to Ainge when it comes to major trades like this.

[scott]

One minor request of the Lauri Gang:

If we get Lauri (which we won't, like I've been saying...), can we all huddle up in a group chat to collectively decide on his thread title?

[Pauleta14]

https://x.com/WireHoops/status/1810431982855418364

[TeKu]

OR... maybe they just extend. It's not what I would do if I were AATFO, but they get paid to do this and I don't.

I think this is most likely actually. They have +$35m in capspace still and need to get to the salary floor. If he is moved its most likely at the trade deadline after he has extended and they using now to set the scene for that. LM is onboard with that as it maximises his earnings and he gets his $$ earlier, no-one else can do that for him this season now. Sure they might have a few more wins through the first half of the season, but as others have said, they can manage that by getting Hardy onboard with the tank and playing all their youth heavy minutes.

[spurraider21]

One minor request of the Lauri Gang:

If we get Lauri (which we won't, like I've been saying...), can we all huddle up in a group chat to collectively decide on his thread title?
gotta be something something Finnish Fjörd of Lauri Markkanen

[Mr. Body]

gotta be something something Finnish Fjörd of Lauri Markkanen

Finns are also famous for their saunas. And death metal.

[Manu&Duncan fan]

https://x.com/WireHoops/status/1810431982855418364

If this is true, I don't want Lauri. Who wants someone who has no passion? Utah's nice weather more important than winning a championship?

[Chinook]

One minor request of the Lauri Gang:

If we get Lauri (which we won't, like I've been saying...), can we all huddle up in a group chat to collectively decide on his thread title?

Nope. Gonna pre-make "The Futuristicer Power Armor of Lauri Markkanen"

[scott]

If this is true, I don't want Lauri. Who wants someone who has no passion? Utah's nice weather more important than winning a championship?

I mean if we don't get him... fuck this guy, he sucks and I hope his limbs fall off.

[spurraider21]

Finns are also famous for their saunas. And death metal.
yeah but alliteration is cool

[scott]

The Scandinavian Djent Temple of Lauri Markkanen

[exstatic]

The Fickle Flying Finn Finger of Fate.

[BackHome]

The winner I like that - :lobt2:

[Seventyniner]

gotta be something something Finnish Fjörd of Lauri Markkanen

What remains to be seen is if the Spurs can afjörd a Fjörd. Ainge's asking price will be steep.

[ismael-robert]

https://x.com/WireHoops/status/1810431982855418364

Like I've been saying

[BillMc]

Finns are also famous for their saunas. And death metal.

I'm a quarter Finnish. Every time I visit my relatives there its straight to the sauna. Everyone's naked. It's weird.

I thought death metal was more a Norwegian thing, but what do I know.

[heyheymymy]

If Jazz keep Markkanen Helsinki their tank attempts by playing too well imho

[heyheymymy]

sorry folks, I'll show myself out

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

I'm a quarter Finnish. Every time I visit my relatives there its straight to the sauna. Everyone's naked. It's weird.

I thought death metal was more a Norwegian thing, but what do I know.

Nah - the Norwegian thing is Black metal, Death metal is the Swedish and Finns are more into gothic or folk metal, which dab into both death and black. It’s complicated.

Also, saunas are awesome. I spent some time in Finland last winter, right by the arctic circle no less. It’s a wonderful county.

[BillMc]

Nah - the Norwegian thing is Black metal, Death metal is the Swedish and Finns are more into gothic or folk metal, which dab into both death and black. It’s complicated.

Also, saunas are awesome. I spent some time in Finland last winter, right by the arctic circle no less. It’s a wonderful county.

Thanks for the metal clarification my friend. Yeah Finland is great. I love it there. Except my relatives love crosscountry skiing and as a Nevadan from the desert I can't remotely keep up in the arctic environment.

[BatManu20]

My bet is Spurs or OKC. Ainge and the Jazz likely still holding out for 5 FRP’s.

1810730443123368384

[Mugen]

Does OKC still make sense for Markannen? I feel like they're pretty set in the near term with the Caruso trade and Hartenstein signing. I guess they can go further all in for a 1yr rental of Markkanen for next season but that doesn't seem to be Presti's MO tbh.

[Extra Stout]

The article all but came out and said it was the Spurs. There was no indication of a “mystery team.” It said that the Warriors and Spurs were the main suitors, that the Warriors only have two picks to offer unless a third team gets involved, and that the Jazz had an offer with three picks. Q.E.D.

It also suggested that if that’s the best offer the Jazz can get, then they would rather keep him, or so they claim.

[Seventyniner]

My bet is Spurs or OKC. Ainge and the Jazz likely still holding out for 5 FRP’s.

1810730443123368384

I'm still thinking Warriors. They can offer 2025/2027 or 2026/2028 unprotected plus the 1-20 portion of their 2030 pick, which is very close to as good as an unprotected pick. The Warriors are not going quietly into that good night, even though their own pick quality in the near term would be low with Curry and Markkanen.

[scott]

OKC's FRPs are not really that great (their own will be late, and the ones they have incoming all have protections on them). SAS could easily beat any OKC deal just via quality of FRPs. The only decent team (I wouldn't expect a tanking team to trade for Lauri) with quality FRPs to flip is Houston, and Lauri might be exactly the kind of consolidation trade they make. They have young talent and quality picks to send back to Utah.

[spurraider21]

:lol

1810709420763975789

[LeBowen]

Make it happen, Brian.

Lauri, Brook, GTJ and we're in contention. :lobt2:

[NASpurs]

:lol

1810709420763975789

6 FRPs and Wemby's future first born son for Lauri

[scott]

:lol

1810709420763975789

Goddammit, this is going to suck me right back in.

If two FRPs has been the general market, it's easy for the Spurs put out an offer that blows that away and is still reasonable. SA30 + MIN31 + SA27 + CHI25. That's 4 FRPs, but only two "good ones" (SA27 would be have to be viewed as likely in the 20s, SA30 and MIN31 have unique value to Utah and have the benefit of long-term variance).

Edit: nevermind, I see that the tweet was about Kessler. I should pay more attention.

Two FRPs for Kessler is wild, but I can see why NYK would offer that, their excess picks are also low quality.

[Extra Stout]

I think that at the end of the day the Jazz’s eyes got big after the Mikal Bridges trade, and so they floated Markkanen in the hopes they could get a similar haul.

Now they claim that if they aren’t offered something like that, they’re not inclined to trade him. Whether or not that’s true depends on whether they really were willing to give him a max extension in the first place.

[Seventyniner]

Goddammit, this is going to suck me right back in.

If two FRPs has been the general market, it's easy for the Spurs put out an offer that blows that away and is still reasonable. SA30 + MIN31 + SA27 + CHI25. That's 4 FRPs, but only two "good ones" (SA27 would be have to be viewed as likely in the 20s, SA30 and MIN31 have unique value to Utah and have the benefit of long-term variance).

Edit: nevermind, I see that the tweet was about Kessler. I should pay more attention.

Two FRPs for Kessler is wild, but I can see why NYK would offer that, their excess picks are also low quality.

I would imagine that the Jazz FO won't care that much about optics in terms of being able to say "we got X first round picks" without regard to their quality. They are probably too smart for that. If they aren't, the Spurs can take advantage by offering their own low quality picks; CHA25 is probably the lowest-quality "first round pick" in the league.

[scott]

I would imagine that the Jazz FO won't care that much about optics in terms of being able to say "we got X first round picks" without regard to their quality. They are probably too smart for that. If they aren't, the Spurs can take advantage by offering their own low quality picks; CHA25 is probably the lowest-quality "first round pick" in the league.

I agree, I don't think Ainge is falling for that. He and Zanik (along with the Spurs) are one of a few front offices who not only have accumulated capital, but it's high quality capital. My point was less than we could fool them with a low quality FRP, but more that we can likely beat any 3 FRP package because we have higher quality FRPs to offer, and we could toss in CHI just as a little added kicker (it's not a bad FRP, though I think there is more danger of it not conveying than we want to believe around here)

[itzsoweezee]

:lol

1810709420763975789

This is BS. No team is offering two FRPs for Walker fucking Kessler. Jazz lost interest in him last year. They’d snap up any FRP for him if that offer were really out there.

[BSfromTX]

Probably hard to give up a lot of picks if teams are not sure they will resign?

[spurraider21]

they have kessler playing in summer league going into his 3rd NBA season but are rejecting 2 FRP's?

:lol

[Mr. Body]

How are they declining two firsts for a guy they don't even play. What are they doing?

[scott]

It all depends on the picks... lots of garbage FRPs out there floating around. For example, NO probably has the most worthless of worthless incoming FRPs, they get MIL's pick if it's 1-4, otherwise it goes to NYK with no future obligation to NOP.

If someone is offering garbage FRPs for Kessler, then I wouldn't give him up either.

[Leetonidas]

:lmao no one is offering two 1sts for Kessler unless they're top 20 protected 5 years from now or something

[Mr. Body]

It all depends on the picks... lots of garbage FRPs out there floating around. For example, NO probably has the most worthless of worthless incoming FRPs, they get MIL's pick if it's 1-4, otherwise it goes to NYK with no future obligation to NOP.

If someone is offering garbage FRPs for Kessler, then I wouldn't give him up either.

They aren't even playing him. I'd mark his value at a couple of seconds at this point and they won't even accept two firsts of any kind. His value ain't going up.

[Mr. Body]

Ainge is clinical at this point.

[cd98]

This is BS. No team is offering two FRPs for Walker fucking Kessler. Jazz lost interest in him last year. They’d snap up any FRP for him if that offer were really out there.

Two picks for Kessler? Hopefully spectrum internet being out keeps the Spurs from accepting that deal.

[Mr. Body]

Ainge must have been asking for owners' daughters for Markkanen.

[scott]

They aren't even playing him. I'd mark his value at a couple of seconds at this point and they won't even accept two firsts of any kind. His value ain't going up.

You're just making shit up. Kessler was averaging around 25mpg to close out the season before he broke his nose and got shut down to close the season.

His value is certainly debatable, but "they aren't even playing him" is false.

[Mr. Body]

You're just making shit up. Kessler was averaging around 25mpg to close out the season before he broke his nose and got shut down to close the season.

His value is certainly debatable, but "they aren't even playing him" is false.

Sorry, I was interacting with actual Utah fans and going by what they said, people who actually follow the team.

[Spurs Homer]

Not sure which games you guys are watching but kessler is not a bad big guy to have in the rotation...he went at wemby a couple of times and when wemby was out - he destroyed zollins (altho- zollins - that is not saying too much lol)

but he is not a bad young guy - but certainly not worth two frp's

[scott]

Not sure which games you guys are watching but kessler is not a bad big guy to have in the rotation...he went at wemby a couple of times and when wemby was out - he destroyed zollins (altho- zollins - that is not saying too much lol)

but he is not a bad young guy - but certainly not worth two frp's

But Mr. Body's imaginary Canadian girlfriend says he doesn't even play

[spurraider21]

But Mr. Body's imaginary Canadian girlfriend says he doesn't even play
you wouldn't know her

she goes to a different school

[Mr. Body]

But Mr. Body's imaginary Canadian girlfriend says he doesn't even play

He was demoted to the bench and Jazz supporters widely say he was relegated to mop-up duty. I mean, I get that you fucking adore Ainge, but c'mon. :lol Just go follow them if you want, but I guess you'd have to actually learn something other than looking at stats.

[scott]

He was demoted to the bench and Jazz supporters widely say he was relegated to mop-up duty. I mean, I get that you fucking adore Ainge, but c'mon. :lol Just go follow them if you want, but I guess you'd have to actually learn something other than looking at stats.

Hit us with some more Lauri Markkanen = Gabe Vincent knowledge

[heyheymymy]

Jazz FO needs to stop playing asset ball and start playing basketball.

[Mr. Body]

Like, you get that he was playing against second and third strings instead of starting, as he was his rookie year, right? Imagine just looking at stats and thinking you got the picture.

And lmao at thinking he's worth two firsts. Scott would do that and more. Anything to make Saint Ainge happy.

[scott]

Kessler is an elite rim-protecting backup big. The kind of player you hope to pick up with a late FRP... no need to trade him for a late FRP in the hopes of landing a guy who might end up as good as him.

Leave it to the sniffers around here to value useful players less than the chance at drafting more Blake Wesleys.

[scott]

1810728121487790276

[exstatic]

I agree, I don't think Ainge is falling for that. He and Zanik (along with the Spurs) are one of a few front offices who not only have accumulated capital, but it's high quality capital. My point was less than we could fool them with a low quality FRP, but more that we can likely beat any 3 FRP package because we have higher quality FRPs to offer, and we could toss in CHI just as a little added kicker (it's not a bad FRP, though I think there is more danger of it not conveying than we want to believe around here)

Same was said about the TOR pick. I think it might not convey in 2025, but I like our chances in the next two years. Last years 7 and 8 teams wound up 9 and 10, which would convey the pick in 26 or 27. They are not tearing it down to the studs, more offloading some expensive vets, kind of like our Dejounte year, but with adding a piece like Giddey.

[LeBowen]

1810728121487790276

It's going to happen, even if we have to speak it into existance.

Btw, since you were talking about a topic title yesterday, we have to come up with a White Death pun that doesn't look racist. :lol

(For those unaware, White Death was the deadliest sniper in history and he was Finnish, fitting for a sniper like Markkanen.)

[TD 21]

My guess is the Jazz are open to moving Kessler because they're trying to tank and don't want anyone with sub foundational potential capable of having high enough impact to stand in the way of that.

[itzsoweezee]

Kessler is an elite rim-protecting backup big. The kind of player you hope to pick up with a late FRP... no need to trade him for a late FRP in the hopes of landing a guy who might end up as good as him.

Leave it to the sniffers around here to value useful players less than the chance at drafting more Blake Wesleys.

I mean, the jazz don’t want him. That is evident. There were rumblings about him even last season.

[Notorious H.O.P.]

Without the ability to renegotiate, you gotta treat this as a one year rental. What if he likes Utah because he wants to be the number one option? If he doesn't want to live in Wemby's enormous shadow. There will be other teams that can offer him a max contract next year so there are no guarantees even if he likes SA but sees a better opportunity elsewhere.

Put a reasonable offer on the table and wait. No back and forth phone calls, no nitpicking minutiae, just a "this is what we feel comfortable with" and they either accept it or not.

[Extra Stout]

It's going to happen, even if we have to speak it into existance.

Btw, since you were talking about a topic title yesterday, we have to come up with a White Death pun that doesn't look racist. :lol

(For those unaware, White Death was the deadliest sniper in history and he was Finnish, fitting for a sniper like Markkanen.)
The Select All Images With Finnish Snipers Meme of Lauri Markkanen

[Seventyniner]

1810728121487790276


The Los Angeles Clippers have been searching for a third team to facilitate a trade involving former league MVP Russell Westbrook, league sources told ClutchPoints' Tomer Azarly.

in b4 Wright snags a 2031 swap with Denver in return for facilitating this. Maybe it would involve the Nuggets sending the Spurs salary to absorb into the room exception, but I defer to the experts when it comes to cap stuff and I haven't taken a look at Denver's cap sheet yet.

[spurraider21]

1810728121487790276

The Spurs have been a lot more active than many give them credit for this offseason. Despite still being labeled as a rebuilding franchise, San Antonio made moves to bring in both Chris Paul and Harrison Barnes this summer, two veterans who are the definition of leaders for their organization. Paul and Barnes are two fantastic mentors for the Spurs to have as they enter the Victor Wembanyama era. Markkanen is a player the Spurs would be interested in giving a long-term contract to, sources said, and his fit next to Wembanyama as another 7-footer would be impossible to stop. Keldon Johnson has been made available in trade talks dating back to the trade deadline, sources said, yet the Spurs have kept Devin Vassell's name out of all discussions to this point.

[scott]

Its all coming together.................

[spurraider21]

interesting that Utah supposedly has received an offer for 3 FRP. knowing that GSW only has 2 FRP to offer, makes it a very real possibility that offer has come from the spurs. could also be the kings, to be fair, before they pulled the plug on talks and moved forward with derozan

[sfernald]

It's going to happen, even if we have to speak it into existance.

Btw, since you were talking about a topic title yesterday, we have to come up with a White Death pun that doesn't look racist. :lol

(For those unaware, White Death was the deadliest sniper in history and he was Finnish, fitting for a sniper like Markkanen.)

War related nickname maybe not the best idea in general.

[scott]

interesting that Utah supposedly has received an offer for 3 FRP. knowing that GSW only has 2 FRP to offer, makes it a very real possibility that offer has come from the spurs. could also be the kings, to be fair, before they pulled the plug on talks and moved forward with derozan

That CP article suggests that the Kings are still interested in Lauri even after signing Demar, which is fascinating. I would have expected them to move on.

I still think Houston is a dark horse. Lauri makes sense as a consolidation piece, and they have plenty of young prospects and high quality picks to use.

[Mugen]

I can't think of a more surefire tank strategy than trading for Keldon and playing him 30+ minutes a game tbh.

[timtonymanu]

Keldon’s been good but has reached his ceiling and he’s nothing more than a 6th man type. Getting Lauri for him would be pretty amazing.

[Dejounte]

I can't think of a more surefire tank strategy than trading for Keldon and playing him 30+ minutes a game tbh.

Have to think it’s a suggestion made by Will Hardy tbh. Keldon looks like he’s playing hard which makes tanking not so obvious for a team, making him perfect for the role. He’s also had enough experience to play over their current guys without making anyone feel butthurt

[spurraider21]

That CP article suggests that the Kings are still interested in Lauri even after signing Demar, which is fascinating. I would have expected them to move on.

I still think Houston is a dark horse. Lauri makes sense as a consolidation piece, and they have plenty of young prospects and high quality picks to use.
Kings are still said to have interest but lack the assets. they arent willing to include Keegan. it would be Huerter and picks. but they cant offer their 2025, 2026, or 2027 pick, and their 2031 pick is now swapped.

houston will need to consolidate at some point or let some decent young players walk. Jabari + Lauri as your bigs seems interesting but no rim protection between them. and not sure moving jabari for lauri makes sense either

[exstatic]

That CP article suggests that the Kings are still interested in Lauri even after signing Demar, which is fascinating. I would have expected them to move on.

I still think Houston is a dark horse. Lauri makes sense as a consolidation piece, and they have plenty of young prospects and high quality picks to use.

If HOU thinks they might get KD in a fire sale in the next year, they need to hold those PHO picks tightly.

[Manu&Duncan fan]

1810728121487790276

Shocking to know 3 FRPs were the best offer for Lauri so far. I assume Spurs made that offer. So stingy! OR maybe they want to tank? Get a high pick and then get Lauri next year? Either way is Ridiculous!

Get Lauri and we become a contender immediately. We can beat anyone. Wright, get it done please!

[LeBowen]

If HOU thinks they might get KD in a fire sale in the next year, they need to hold those PHO picks tightly.

Phoenix isn't getting those picks back unless Booker is going the other way.
KD is turning 36 before this season starts, noone is giving FRPs for a 37 year old next summer.

As I said before, Lauri is somewhat of a specific player.
I don't think he'd work in every enviroment and roster construction, but Wemby is just perfect for him.

Kings, Warriors and Rockets don't have a rim protector. It would just be an awnkward fit and both their center and Lauri would look worse.
Spurs, OKC and Heat are the best fits for Lauri. OKC isn't interested, Heat has nothing to offer.

[exstatic]

Shocking to know 3 FRPs were the best offer for Lauri so far. I assume Spurs made that offer. So stingy! OR maybe they want to tank? Get a high pick and then get Lauri next year? Either way is Ridiculous!

Get Lauri and we become a contender immediately. We can beat anyone. Wright, get it done please!

Right now, he’s a rental. That’s why the offers are low.

[scott]

Same was said about the TOR pick. I think it might not convey in 2025, but I like our chances in the next two years. Last years 7 and 8 teams wound up 9 and 10, which would convey the pick in 26 or 27. They are not tearing it down to the studs, more offloading some expensive vets, kind of like our Dejounte year, but with adding a piece like Giddey.

The best thing working in our favor is the declining protections. It's relatively easy to protect against Top-10 protections with a tank, you've just got to finish 10th worst or less and you retain 79.8% chance of keeping your pick and finishing 9th worst gives you a 96.9% chance of keeping the pick.

Top 8 becomes a trickier proposition though. Even finishing 8th worst, you only have a 60.8% chance of keeping the pick. To get to that 97% certainty, you've got to finish 6th worst or worse, which is tougher with other tanking teams around you.

I'm extremely confident that CHI will more than likely not convey this year, with maybe a 50% chance of it conveying after that. Toronto was way different, they were a better team and had a narrower band to fall into. To protect a Top-6 pick, you've got to get down to the 3rd worst record to give you a 93% chance of protecting it. Toronto was always going to be a coin-flip at worst - and the odds of getting heads at least once over 3 coin flips is 87.5%.

[Ignazzz]

Right now, he’s a rental. That’s why the offers are low.
Very accurate math
3x1 and tank mode or 5x1 later ( after extension) without own high 2025 pick
solid callculation

[vy65]

No one has wanted Lauri more than me (well, maybe scott), but after getting Harrison fucking Barnes, I don't see why PATFO would still be PF-hunting at this point. I'm not saying it won't happen, but I don't understand the logic in thinking that we're still after Lauri after the moves we've made so far. I think it's far, far more likely that PATFO is done with the off season.

[scott]

Kings are still said to have interest but lack the assets. they arent willing to include Keegan. it would be Huerter and picks. but they cant offer their 2025, 2026, or 2027 pick, and their 2031 pick is now swapped.

houston will need to consolidate at some point or let some decent young players walk. Jabari + Lauri as your bigs seems interesting but no rim protection between them. and not sure moving jabari for lauri makes sense either

Kessler might be an interesting solution to that for HOU. He's pretty much ONLY a Rim Protector and rebounder. But if you're surrounding him with FVV or Reed/Green/Lauri/Jabari lineups... that could be interesting.

[scott]

No one has wanted Lauri more than me (well, maybe scott), but after getting Harrison fucking Barnes, I don't see why PATFO would still be PF-hunting at this point. I'm not saying it won't happen, but I don't understand the logic in thinking that we're still after Lauri after the moves we've made so far. I think it's far, far more likely that PATFO is done with the off season.

Hold true my brother. Me, you and LeBowen will ride gloriously through fields of golden wheat when our Finnish lorde comes home to roost.

[vy65]

Hold true my brother. Me, you and LeBowen will ride gloriously through fields of golden wheat when our Finnish lorde comes home to roost.

Today is a good day to die, Valhalla! (Finns were Vikings too, right?)

[vy65]

For those not getting that reference

GrWjS4wG6Rg

[spurraider21]

Kessler might be an interesting solution to that for HOU. He's pretty much ONLY a Rim Protector and rebounder. But if you're surrounding him with FVV or Reed/Green/Lauri/Jabari lineups... that could be interesting.
utah tried kessler + lauri and it didnt really work. maybe houston can do things differently with them? i dno...

[scott]

utah tried kessler + lauri and it didnt really work. maybe houston can do things differently with them? i dno...

Would be a lot better talent around them?

I agree, Kessler is a much better backup C option... but just trying to think of ways Houston could get involved... I just have a sneaking suspicion.

[sfernald]

Shocking to know 3 FRPs were the best offer for Lauri so far. I assume Spurs made that offer. So stingy! OR maybe they want to tank? Get a high pick and then get Lauri next year? Either way is Ridiculous!

Get Lauri and we become a contender immediately. We can beat anyone. Wright, get it done please!

I think with Wemby and Lauri we would have the best frontcourt in all the nba!

[CGD]

For the Lauri-Stan’s, just be patient. Teams called Ainge’s bluff and he’s recalibrating. They want to see if Ainge extends him in August, and gather more info then.
Better to trade for a cost controlled player, etc.

The Spurs’ summer offer will still be there in February, or whenever he can be moved after extending. They will be in as good a position to make a competitive offer as the next team.

[Biggems]

I have not kept up with Kessler since college. How is his NBA game?

[CGD]

I have not kept up with Kessler since college. How is his NBA game?

He was coming off the bench for a crap Jazz team which is worrisome

[spurraider21]

I have not kept up with Kessler since college. How is his NBA game?
blocked a ton of shots as a rookie and looked promising, even though his impact stats werent great. wasnt much better as a sophomore and dealt with some injuries.

[Biggems]

He was coming off the bench for a crap Jazz team which is worrisome

Wasn't it a crap Jazz team trying to be crap, though?

BTW, I did see a stat that said he was 2nd in blocks per 100 possessions, behind only Wemby. He had decent scoring and rebounding numbers, too. However, he is strictly low post and he is a horrible free throw shooter.

[Manu&Duncan fan]

I think with Wemby and Lauri we would have the best frontcourt in all the nba!

You got it!

With newly added Chris Paul, Barnes, plus Lauri, We will have a solid starting lineup and solid bench. I don't see any team we cannot beat. We will be a serious contender.

So, I still believe Lauri will be a spur before training camp.

[mo7888]

You got it!

With newly added Chris Paul, Barnes, plus Lauri, We will have a solid starting lineup and solid bench. I don't see any team we cannot beat. We will be a serious contender.

So, I still believe Lauri will be a spur before training camp.

I think the odds of getting Lauri are relatively high rn. I don't wanna get my hopes to high, but it's getting harder not to..

[Manu&Duncan fan]

Very accurate math
3x1 and tank mode or 5x1 later ( after extension) without own high 2025 pick
solid callculation

If Jazz can do this simple math, then Lauri should be a spur before training camp.

[sfernald]

I think the odds of getting Lauri are relatively high rn. I don't wanna get my hopes to high, but it's getting harder not to..

Also, it just feels like an Ainge thing to give it to a team just on the rise to create even more competition at the top rather than give it to a monster team like Okc. Plus as I think someone mentioned before, it would get rid of a potential lottery draft competitor!

[CGD]

Wasn't it a crap Jazz team trying to be crap, though?

BTW, I did see a stat that said he was 2nd in blocks per 100 possessions, behind only Wemby. He had decent scoring and rebounding numbers, too. However, he is strictly low post and he is a horrible free throw shooter.

I think that’s the issue. They couldn’t keep him on the floor despite the good defensive numbers.

[Dex]

I'd love Markennen as much as the next guy, but overpaying for a (potential) rental is the kind of swing-for-the-fences move the Spurs can stand to avoid right now.

3 FRPs and salary-filler (i.e. KJ) seems fair. If the Jazz balk, the Spurs walk. The Jazz are going into tank mode anyways so they don't have a lot of leverage in trying to unload a guy who single-handedly takes them out of the Flagg sweepstakes.

[spurraider21]

I'd love Markennen as much as the next guy, but overpaying for a (potential) rental is the kind of swing-for-the-fences move the Spurs can stand to avoid right now.

3 FRPs and salary-filler (i.e. KJ) seems fair. If the Jazz balk, the Spurs walk. The Jazz are going into tank mode anyways so they don't have a lot of leverage in trying to unload a guy who single-handedly takes them out of the Flagg sweepstakes.
he's not going to be a rental. he's about to get himself paid and he gets paid the most by re-signing with wherever he lands, just like siakam did.

[exstatic]

he's not going to be a rental. he's about to get himself paid and he gets paid the most by re-signing with wherever he lands, just like siakam did.

If he’s not extended, you have to consider him a rental for purposes of draft pick payment.

[spurraider21]

If he’s not extended, you have to consider him a rental for purposes of draft pick payment.
nah

[exstatic]

nah

Yeah. You don’t throw 5 FRPs at someone not signed beyond this season. He walks, you’re fucked for half a decade.

[spurraider21]

Yeah. You don’t throw 5 FRPs at someone not signed beyond this season. He walks, you’re fucked for half a decade.
he's not going to walk. he's in line for his first monster contract. if you offer him the max he's taking it. if your concern is he isnt worth the max, thats a separate story

[scott]

he's not going to walk. he's in line for his first monster contract. if you offer him the max he's taking it. if your concern is he isnt worth the max, thats a separate story

Yep. OG and Siakam re-signings were just formalities. They were acquired with assurances that they'd be maxed, and they were. No one is making that trade without the verbal agreement in place.

[Dex]

Yep. OG and Siakam re-signings were just formalities. They were acquired with assurances that they'd be maxed, and they were. No one is making that trade without the verbal agreement in place.

Marcus Morris and Davis Bertans have entered the chat

[spurraider21]

Marcus Morris and Davis Bertans have entered the chat
marcus morris wasnt signing for the max

[Dex]

marcus morris wasnt signing for the max

I know, but is a glaring example of when "verbal agreements" go wrong and, in particular, one that fucked over the Spurs

[Strategic]

I’m not too familiar with Lauri but all the interest in here makes me wonder. Would folks be ok with the Spurs including next year’s first pick to get him? Ainge will surely want it. That’s a steep price.

[spurraider21]

Yep. OG and Siakam re-signings were just formalities. They were acquired with assurances that they'd be maxed, and they were. No one is making that trade without the verbal agreement in place.
OG didnt get the max but everybody knew the knicks would take care of him and he would be back. just like IQ with toronto

[Dex]

I’m not too familiar with Lauri but all the interest in here makes me wonder. Would folks be ok with the Spurs including next year’s first pick to get him? Ainge will surely want it. That’s a steep price.

Possibly, but that's a cat and mouse game.

If the Spurs get Lauri, next year's FRP instantly loses value

[scott]

Just like we can't let Kawhi haunt us forever, we can't let fucking Marcus Morris make us afraid to making winning moves.


I’m not too familiar with Lauri but all the interest in here makes me wonder. Would folks be ok with the Spurs including next year’s first pick to get him? Ainge will surely want it. That’s a steep price.

Ainge already has 3 FRPs next year, and I really don't want to give up either of ours. I'd be willing to do a swap where UTA gets the 2nd best of ATL/SA for the lesser of UTA/CLE/MIN but that's about it for me. I want a second pick to be able to move up a little bit from wherever that ATL pick comes in. But really I want our core for the next 5 years to go Wemby + Lauri + Devin + Castle + ATL25 + SA25.

I'm gonna try damn hard to stay away from those 25 picks. If it's 4 picks going out, that might be a deal breaker. If the price is down to 3 picks, then I might be willing to give up one of those... but it would still be tough.

[spurraider21]

I know, but is a glaring example of when "verbal agreements" go wrong and, in particular, one that fucked over the Spurs
yeah renegs happen from time to time. but thats more so agreements struck during the moratorium

[MannyIsGod]

I know, but is a glaring example of when "verbal agreements" go wrong and, in particular, one that fucked over the Spurs

Except the example you used involved taking less money which is the exact opposite situation.

[benefactor]

The trade may or may not happen, but this dumb fucking rental narrative needs to die.

[SpursFan86]

I know it’s July so there isn’t shit else to talk about but I can’t believe this thread is up to nearly 60 pages :lol

Count me in the camp of thinking three FRPs (depending on the picks) + Keldon would be a very solid deal for Lauri. I just don’t think the Spurs are making that move though.

[spurraider21]

I know it’s July so there isn’t shit else to talk about but I can’t believe this thread is up to nearly 60 pages :lol

Count me in the camp of thinking three FRPs (depending on the picks) + Keldon would be a very solid deal for Lauri. I just don’t think the Spurs are making that move though.
pau gasol got 130 pages before signing with the bulls anyway :lol

https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=236782

[scott]

pau gasol got 130 pages before signing with the bulls anyway :lol

https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=236782

The good ol' days, when $12MM/year was a big contract (19% of the cap in 2014)

[thiste]

wrong thread

[TrainOfThought5]

Possibly, but that's a cat and mouse game.

If the Spurs get Lauri, next year's FRP instantly loses value

not if we get him at the trade deadline, but honestly, I’d rather continue to build through the draft

[spursparker9]

pau gasol got 130 pages before signing with the bulls anyway :lol

https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=236782

I remember Tspence with his legendary fake post on Woj saying Gasol to the Spurs :lol

[scott]

Tuning into a Twitter Spaces that Matthew Tynan is participating in on the topic of Lauri... he is what Tynan, in a typical local Spurs media tapdance around the facts kind of way, basically said:


Spurs have had an interest in Lauri for a long time
He said he doesn't know for sure that the Spurs have submitted a formal offer, but it kind of sounds like they have
Doesn't think a deal with Lauri will get done though because the sides are too far apart because (and this next bullet point is an important one, not just for Lauri but for any potential acquisition we hope to make)...
Teams do not want to do deals that help the Spurs get better. The league understands what Wemby is, and aren't in a hurry to create an unstoppable beast. That doesn't mean they won't trade with the Spurs, but there is a "Spurs tax". Any offer the Spurs make has to be significantly better than competing offers, not just equal or marginally better


Basically, sounds like the Spurs would love to make a fair deal, but Ainge is going to demand more from the Spurs than the Spurs are willing to give (without knowing what Ainge is asking, we can't know if the Spurs are being too conservative or not, but whatever Ainge is asking for right now than the Spurs are willing to give).

This news is actually kind of comforting to me. As I've expressed multiple times in this thread, I'd be perfectly fine if Lauri ended up going to another team on some ridiculous godfather offer - but it would be frustrating if he ended up going to the Warriors for two FRPs and Wiggins and we could have easily beat that. Sounds like the Spurs tax is significant here though, and at some point I do trust that this front office (whom I criticize freely) knows that a line has be drawn and has drawn theirs in a generally reasonably place.

With all of this said... if the Spurs Tax is real, then its something we need to be prepared for and we either need to pivot to using our draft capital to actually draft guys, or we need to be willing to pay obscene prices for trade targets.

[scott]

Now he's basically mealy mouthed in wanting to say anything else. Tynan is one of the better ones, but the local media is so afraid of saying anything. They think they are team insiders or Brian Wright's personal PR firm, not journalists, it's hilarious.

[Ariel]

Tuning into a Twitter Spaces that Matthew Tynan is participating in on the topic of Lauri... he is what Tynan, in a typical local Spurs media tapdance around the facts kind of way, basically said:


Spurs have had an interest in Lauri for a long time
He said he doesn't know for sure that the Spurs have submitted a formal offer, but it kind of sounds like they have
Doesn't think a deal with Lauri will get done though because the sides are too far apart because (and this next bullet point is an important one, not just for Lauri but for any potential acquisition we hope to make)...
Teams do not want to do deals that help the Spurs get better. The league understands what Wemby is, and aren't in a hurry to create an unstoppable beast. That doesn't mean they won't trade with the Spurs, but there is a "Spurs tax". Any offer the Spurs make has to be significantly better than competing offers, not just equal or marginally better


Basically, sounds like the Spurs would love to make a fair deal, but Ainge is going to demand more from the Spurs than the Spurs are willing to give (without knowing what Ainge is asking, we can't know if the Spurs are being too conservative or not, but whatever Ainge is asking for right now than the Spurs are willing to give).

This news is actually kind of comforting to me. As I've expressed multiple times in this thread, I'd be perfectly fine if Lauri ended up going to another team on some ridiculous godfather offer - but it would be frustrating if he ended up going to the Warriors for two FRPs and Wiggins and we could have easily beat that. Sounds like the Spurs tax is significant here though, and at some point I do trust that this front office (whom I criticize freely) knows that a line has be drawn and has drawn theirs in a generally reasonably place.

With all of this said... if the Spurs Tax is real, then its something we need to be prepared for and we either need to pivot to using our draft capital to actually draft guys, or we need to be willing to pay obscene prices for trade targets.
Not buying the Spurs tax. Teams first and foremost look after themselves, and if a trade suits them they'll pull the trigger. Examples of this can be recent moves by Boston, where Brogdon, Jrue, Porzingis and White were handed to them on a silver platter, because circumstances were favorable for that to happen. In this case, I think it's harder because 1) Lauri's age and skill set is objectively more valuable 2) Ainge is involved 3) Teams know Spurs are asset rich and can afford an overpay. But I wouldn't take that personally as an anti Spur agenda.

[Spursfanfromafar]

Not buying the Spurs tax. Teams first and foremost look after themselves, and if a trade suits them they'll pull the trigger. Examples of this can be recent moves by Boston, where Brogdon, Jrue, Porzingis and White were handed to them on a silver platter, because circumstances were favorable for that to happen. In this case, I think it's harder because 1) Lauri's age and skill set is objectively more valuable 2) Ainge is involved 3) Teams know Spurs are asset rich and can afford an overpay. But I wouldn't take that personally as an anti Spur agenda.

I kinda agree. There well might be a Spurs tax but no team is going to refuse a better offer from the Spurs or favour a worse offer from elsewhere just because they don't want to help the Spurs.

A case in point is the Knicks-Nets trade for Mikal Bridges. The two teams haven't been in a trade since 1983. But the Nets knew that the Knicks were desperate to complete their Villanova-Knicks connection by getting Bridges. And they traded their biggest asset for a big price that included a Knicks tax - a massive overpay of 5 plus FRPs that no other team was going to give them.

So yeah, if Ainge gets the best package from the Spurs, he isn't going to trade Markkanen for a lower haul just because he doesn't want to help the Spurs consolidate further around Wemby. If anything, the Spurs tax would be to squeeze them to push more assets.

For Wright and PATFO, they just need to insulate themselves from being robbed by FOs via this "tax". One way to do is to get as many assets as possible while keeping Wemby happy and being in a position to offer the most chips in a trade, an offer that a team can't refuse but also an offer that doesn't hurt the Spurs medium and long term plans badly.

I think Wright's moves in the last two seasons for asset accretion has helped the Spurs position themselves for a good trade such as getting Markkanen. I just hope that the Spurs aren't too conservative and reliant on too slow a construction towards contention.

[scott]

Not buying the Spurs tax. Teams first and foremost look after themselves, and if a trade suits them they'll pull the trigger. Examples of this can be recent moves by Boston, where Brogdon, Jrue, Porzingis and White were handed to them on a silver platter, because circumstances were favorable for that to happen. In this case, I think it's harder because 1) Lauri's age and skill set is objectively more valuable 2) Ainge is involved 3) Teams know Spurs are asset rich and can afford an overpay. But I wouldn't take that personally as an anti Spur agenda.

First off... don't shoot the messenger :lol

Second, I agree. Tynan then went on some rant about how Utah and San Antonio have no incentive to help each other to which someone else responded no teams have incentives to help each other... they're all looking out for themselves.

At the end of the day, Ainge is going to take the trade that is best for him. I don't buy that he's worried about making the Spurs some juggernaut he can't compete with, that's putting the cart before the horse. At the same time, the Spurs don't need to worrya about how they're going to line up against Boston in a finals series... you gotta compete on that level before you worry about competing on that level (sounds funny, but I'm sure everyone knows what I mean).

But... this is what Tynan is saying and he claims he's "talked to people" who back this up. This, of course could just be what some Jazz person is telling him to drive up the price or what some Spurs person is telling him to get people to STFU about a deal they're trying to work.

[scott]

Side note, apparently Tynan and Jordan Clarkson have some kind of beef with one another? Kind of weird, and Tynan definitely gets mousey when people probe him on it.

[scott]

I kinda agree. There well might be a Spurs tax but no team is going to refuse a better offer from the Spurs or favour a worse offer from elsewhere just because they don't want to help the Spurs.

A case in point is the Knicks-Nets trade for Mikal Bridges. The two teams haven't been in a trade since 1983. But the Nets knew that the Knicks were desperate to complete their Villanova-Knicks connection by getting Bridges. And they traded their biggest asset for a big price that included a Knicks tax - a massive overpay of 5 plus FRPs that no other team was going to give them.

So yeah, if Ainge gets the best package from the Spurs, he isn't going to trade Markkanen for a lower haul just because he doesn't want to help the Spurs consolidate further around Wemby. If anything, the Spurs tax would be to squeeze them to push more assets.

For Wright and PATFO, they just need to insulate themselves from being robbed by FOs via this "tax". One way to do is to get as many assets as possible while keeping Wemby happy and being in a position to offer the most chips in a trade, an offer that a team can't refuse but also an offer that doesn't hurt the Spurs medium and long term plans badly.

I think Wright's moves in the last two seasons for asset accretion has helped the Spurs position themselves for a good trade such as getting Markkanen. I just hope that the Spurs aren't too conservative and reliant on too slow a construction towards contention.

Well said, and I think that is key. In big boy moves, the Spurs have to be aggressive and put forth real, aggressive offers. They can't play games and try to get cute to get a bargain. That works on small time deals or when you're a seller - but not when you're a buyer for prime assets.

You don't walk into the Ferrari dealership and ask for some absurd discount on a SF90 Stradale. If your goal is to buy one of those, you come prepared to pay the price. Take the cutesy bullshit to the Honda dealer.

[sfernald]

Tuning into a Twitter Spaces that Matthew Tynan is participating in on the topic of Lauri... he is what Tynan, in a typical local Spurs media tapdance around the facts kind of way, basically said:


Spurs have had an interest in Lauri for a long time
He said he doesn't know for sure that the Spurs have submitted a formal offer, but it kind of sounds like they have
Doesn't think a deal with Lauri will get done though because the sides are too far apart because (and this next bullet point is an important one, not just for Lauri but for any potential acquisition we hope to make)...
Teams do not want to do deals that help the Spurs get better. The league understands what Wemby is, and aren't in a hurry to create an unstoppable beast. That doesn't mean they won't trade with the Spurs, but there is a "Spurs tax". Any offer the Spurs make has to be significantly better than competing offers, not just equal or marginally better


Basically, sounds like the Spurs would love to make a fair deal, but Ainge is going to demand more from the Spurs than the Spurs are willing to give (without knowing what Ainge is asking, we can't know if the Spurs are being too conservative or not, but whatever Ainge is asking for right now than the Spurs are willing to give).

This news is actually kind of comforting to me. As I've expressed multiple times in this thread, I'd be perfectly fine if Lauri ended up going to another team on some ridiculous godfather offer - but it would be frustrating if he ended up going to the Warriors for two FRPs and Wiggins and we could have easily beat that. Sounds like the Spurs tax is significant here though, and at some point I do trust that this front office (whom I criticize freely) knows that a line has be drawn and has drawn theirs in a generally reasonably place.

With all of this said... if the Spurs Tax is real, then its something we need to be prepared for and we either need to pivot to using our draft capital to actually draft guys, or we need to be willing to pay obscene prices for trade targets.

A Spurs tax? That sounds like complete bullshit or at least something Ainge makes up to rape his victims. If that is the case, we sure the fuck shouldn’t have wasted that #8 pick cause it sounds like picks aren’t worth very much for us. Hopefully they tell Ainge exactly where to stick it.

[TeKu]

Sounds like another negotiating ploy from Ainge. Maybe it's the opposite side of players wanting to come play with Wemby. If this really was in play then you'd also expect Lauri's agent to step in and make sure his client isn't being disadvantaged because of it. They still need to keep him happy prior to any extension.

[Teamduncan21]

I remember Tspence with his legendary fake post on Woj saying Gasol to the Spurs :lol

We have Eric Zhang on Lauri to Spurs

[spurraider21]

Well said, and I think that is key. In big boy moves, the Spurs have to be aggressive and put forth real, aggressive offers. They can't play games and try to get cute to get a bargain. That works on small time deals or when you're a seller - but not when you're a buyer for prime assets.

You don't walk into the Ferrari dealership and ask for some absurd discount on a SF90 Stradale. If your goal is to buy one of those, you come prepared to pay the price. Take the cutesy bullshit to the Honda dealer.
Honda > Ferrari tbh

[scott]

Honda > Ferrari tbh

Current F1 standings agree with you!

[Ariel]

First off... don't shoot the messenger :lol

Second, I agree. Tynan then went on some rant about how Utah and San Antonio have no incentive to help each other to which someone else responded no teams have incentives to help each other... they're all looking out for themselves.

At the end of the day, Ainge is going to take the trade that is best for him. I don't buy that he's worried about making the Spurs some juggernaut he can't compete with, that's putting the cart before the horse. At the same time, the Spurs don't need to worrya about how they're going to line up against Boston in a finals series... you gotta compete on that level before you worry about competing on that level (sounds funny, but I'm sure everyone knows what I mean).

But... this is what Tynan is saying and he claims he's "talked to people" who back this up. This, of course could just be what some Jazz person is telling him to drive up the price or what some Spurs person is telling him to get people to STFU about a deal they're trying to work.
Could be. Personally, I don't think the Spurs actually made a formal offer. Tony Jones (Utah reporter that works for the Athletic and IMO works as Ainge's mouth piece) said that they had concrete, significant offers from Sacramento and GSW, but when referring to the Spurs was very careful to say that they had "significant interest". I interpret this as meaning Spurs inquired but Ainge came up with a ridiculous asking price (say, Vassel, all of the Atlanta picks including '26 swap, plus Spurs '30 and Minnesota '31) to the point Spurs didn't actually get to make a counter-offer. But this is just pure speculation on my part, based on the wording used and how Ainge operates.

[ambchang]

FWIW, reports have that the jazz have turned down two first founders for Kessler. So getting LM for three picks + salary is not likely going to happen.

[scott]

FWIW, reports have that the jazz have turned down two first founders for Kessler. So getting LM for three picks + salary is not likely going to happen.

Pick quality comes into play. NYK has a couple of unlikely to convey FRPs that were likely what they offered. So it’s “Two FRPs” for Kessler as the headline when it reality it’s 4 seconds.

This is also one of the factors in the Bridges deal. It’s 5 FRPs, but the majority, if not all of them, are projected low-value FRPs. Not all FRPs are created equal.

[Ariel]

FWIW, reports have that the jazz have turned down two first founders for Kessler. So getting LM for three picks + salary is not likely going to happen.
You don't know what picks those were, NYK have a couple really bad, fake firsts, that are perfect for Ainge to claim this. Don't be so gullible to eat up their BS.

[Death In June]

At this point it’s fine if the Spurs don’t get him but I would love to see Markannen walk out on Utah for absolutely no return.

[exstatic]

Pick quality comes into play. NYK has a couple of unlikely to convey FRPs that were likely what they offered. So it’s “Two FRPs” for Kessler as the headline when it reality it’s 4 seconds.

This is also one of the factors in the Bridges deal. It’s 5 FRPs, but the majority, if not all of them, are projected low-value FRPs. Not all FRPs are created equal.

They’re not terrible like the CHA pick we hold. The Washington pick is 1-10 and 1-8 in the next two drafts. The Detroit pick is 1-13,1-11,1-9 over the next 3 drafts.

[Manu&Duncan fan]

At this point it’s fine if the Spurs don’t get him but I would love to see Markannen walk out on Utah for absolutely no return.

At this time, No news is good news.

It means Warrior's aggressive offer didn't work. I believe Warrior is desperate enough to offer Kuminga and picks. Jazz is likely happy to accept. This didn't go thru. The only reason is that Lauri don't want to extend with Warriors.

This also explains why Spurs only offer 3 picks. Because Lauri told Spurs that he would extend with Spurs only.

So, he is coming, my friend! Cheers!:spin

[exstatic]

At this time, No news is good news.

It means Warrior's aggressive offer didn't work. I believe Warrior is desperate enough to offer Kuminga and picks. Jazz is likely happy to accept. This didn't go thru. The only reason is that Lauri don't want to extend with Warriors.

This also explains why Spurs only offer 3 picks. Because Lauri told Spurs that he would extend with Spurs only.

So, he is coming, my friend! Cheers!:spin

I don’t know about all that. If GS wouldn’t put Kuminga in the PG13 deal, I don’t think they’ll put him in this one.

We’ll know more after August 6th. That’s the first day he’s eligible to sign an extension, and the last day he can, and still be traded at the deadline.

[sfernald]

They’re not terrible like the CHA pick we hold. The Washington pick is 1-10 and 1-8 in the next two drafts. The Detroit pick is 1-13,1-11,1-9 over the next 3 drafts.


Ewww none of those picks will ever convey, those are two of the worst teams in league history.

[exstatic]

Ewww none of those picks will ever convey, those are two of the worst teams in league history.

The washington pick is unlikely, but with 3 shots, and a great draft followed by a really good one, there’s a chance that the Detroit one does. They’ll probably pull a good player this draft, and if they get lucky in 2026 and pull a top 3, there’s almost no way they don’t finish 10 or worse in 2027, with no reason to tank, and having been in the desert so long. They also got rid of that idiot Troy Weaver.

[couchman]

One minor request of the Lauri Gang:

If we get Lauri (which we won't, like I've been saying...), can we all huddle up in a group chat to collectively decide on his thread title?

The Spicy Barony of Lauri Markkanen

[scott]

At around the 46 min mark of the latest Lowe Post podcast they discuss Lauri and the Spurs. The Spurs are Lowe’s favorite Lauri landing spot, but he feels the deal is make or break around Devin Vassell (meaning, the Jazz probably are asking for him and the Spurs probably don’t do that).

As much as I want Lauri, I agree that Vassell + draft capital is a no-go. If it were Lauri for Devin straight up, it would be a close call that I’d probably say yes to (Lauri being a better player with a harder to replicate archetype, but older and will be more expensive)… but giving up draft capital in addition is an absolutely non-starter.

This deal ain’t happening.

[Dejounte]

Sad but at least they tried

[LeBowen]

This deal ain’t happening.

Ain't happening until Lauri refuses to extend and Ainge has to lower his demand to a realistic value.

[TekXX]

Why not give up Vassell, dudes a chucker? People are acting like he's our future, he's not

[BatManu20]

At around the 46 min mark of the latest Lowe Post podcast they discuss Lauri and the Spurs. The Spurs are Lowe’s favorite Lauri landing spot, but he feels the deal is make or break around Devin Vassell (meaning, the Jazz probably are asking for him and the Spurs probably don’t do that).

As much as I want Lauri, I agree that Vassell + draft capital is a no-go. If it were Lauri for Devin straight up, it would be a close call that I’d probably say yes to (Lauri being a better player with a harder to replicate archetype, but older and will be more expensive)… but giving up draft capital in addition is an absolutely non-starter.

This deal ain’t happening.

I'm not giving up Devin + multiple FRP's for Lauri. As much as I want him, Lauri's on the last year of his deal and is set to be overpaid next Summer + he's been injury prone thus far throughout his career. Be patient. Re-signing Markkanen to a long-term deal makes no sense for Utah. They desperately need to tank for the 2025 Draft and they cant do that with Lauri on the roster. Wait it out. Ainge will either come to his senses and eventually lower his asking price, or he'll hold onto Lauri too long and he'll lose trade value, especially if Lauri doesn't re-sign with them, which he shouldn't given the circumstances.

[LeBowen]

Why not give up Vassell, dudes a chucker? People are acting like he's our future, he's not

Because his contract will be one of the best in the entire league.
Less than 15% of the cap in final few years for a 20ppg scorer who's not a negative on defense.

[BatManu20]

Why not give up Vassell, dudes a chucker? People are acting like he's our future, he's not

Devin isn't without his flaws, but he's 23 and a 20 ppg scorer on 48% shooting. His best basketball is still ahead of him and he's on a team-friendly deal. He's also Wemby's best friend on the team. I'm not trading him + multiple FRP's for a guy who's set to be overpaid next Summer and has only played 60+ games in season 3 times in his career.

Ainge doesn't have the leverage he thinks he does here. Jazz want to tank for this upcoming stacked draft class. They need to trade him. Re-signing him to a long term deal makes no sense. Play the long game and wait for the asking price to come down, which it inevitably should as we inch closer to the season. Even wait til the trade deadline if you have to, if the Jazz are dumb enough to hold onto him that long. Spurs can still offer the best package of any team in the league or match any other team's offer. Just wait it out. We'll be fine.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

It's a tricky situation with Markkanen because of his possible extension on Aug 6th and Jazz are clearly preserving cap space for a renegotiation. Such a deal should be struck exactly on that date in order for him to be trade eligible on the deadline. Otherwise they wouldn't be able to trade him until next summer.

If the Spurs trade for him they won't be able to renegotiate for 6 months. They'd also need to create cap space again and presumably enter the season at the salary floor of 126.5 mil. Additionally, renegotiations cannot be done after March 1st, so the deal would need to happen in a specific time period as well - no later than end of August. Basically it's very complicated for the Spurs, or any other team, to get him and then renegotiate and extend. Jazz, on the other hand, can do that easily and it's in his best interest, financially, to do so. The problem the Jazz would face, should they extend him, would be how to preserve his trade value on a max or near max extension with the team not being very good by design next season.

Spurs would be smart to make an offer they think is fair and if it's turned down to sit and wait until Aug. 6th, as it's the most important date for Markkanen. Either he'll be extended and thus be trade ineligible or his price might fall. If he doesn't renegotiate on Aug 6th or if the Jazz spend their cap space $ before that, making it impossible, we can safely assume he's getting traded somewhere sooner rather than later.

[Mugen]

Vasell is absolutely a deal breaker for a guy like Markkanen tbh.

[spurraider21]

its not even that vassell is better than markkanen (though we'll see what he's like in 4 years. markkanen was a disappointment until his first season with the jazz)... but it defeats the purpose of the move altogether to make him part of the deal. the point of trading for lauri is cashing in on picks to take a big step forwrad. moving vassell negates quite a bit of that

[Mr. Body]

If Ainge was demanding Vassell, then he was never really serious about trading Markkanen. Maybe promised to 'try' or something.

[spurraider21]

If Ainge was demanding Vassell, then he was never really serious about trading Markkanen. Maybe promised to 'try' or something.
yeah, you could argue insisting on Kuminga makes some sense because the warriors timeline is "now" and not even 3 years from now, and they have less picks to give. but vassell defeats the purpose of this kind of deal unless the trade target is an actual superstar level player

[scott]

Why not give up Vassell, dudes a chucker? People are acting like he's our future, he's not

Devin has his flaws, and I don't expect him to become an All-Star, but he's perfectly suited for a #3 role next to Wemby and whomever eventually becomes his sidekick. Honestly, Lauri and Devin are a complementary pair straight out of central casting for Wemby - it is difficult for me to imagine two outlines of a pair that are a better match. Yes, there are better players, but these two just fit so nicely.

I agree with others, swapping out Lauri for Devin is taking 2 steps forward but 1.95 steps back, and to give up incremental capital and eat up a significantly larger portion of your cap to make such a marginal gain makes no sense.

[Knoxxx]

Yes part of what makes Devin valuable is his team friendly deal.