There is Markannen to Spurs Buzz

[baseline bum]

Depends on the picks. If Lauri is commanding all the ATL 25+ ATL 27 + Spurs 25 + CHI 25 (4 picks ) and Cam is commanding SA 2029 top 14 protected + CHA pick I’d easily take Cam

Come on CHA isn't a first man

[timtonymanu]

one of the all time head scratchers

And to top it off, they only waived Primo when his flasher stuff went public. They really wanted to keep that scrub around that they would risk legal actions. It's astounding for a front office that was once lauded for finding Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili through the draft. That's why I laugh at Spurs fans that get petty at other players and how they handle themselves on social media "oh that's not spurs like. we don't want him."

Yet we allowed Primo and Forbes, both so-called "yes-men" (sign us up baby! that's spurs like) that ended up having destructive issues, to be here. I just want a player that's talented, not because he got an A+ in an American government course or that his favorite downtime hobby is reading.

[NASpurs]

I sometimes can appreciate why Mr. Body tells people to kill themselves. Not always, but sometimes.

exstatic not getting another joke? News at 11.

[AFBlue]

Protect '25 and any other deal is worth it. Assume that will be a deal breaker.

[DPG21920]

Come on CHA isn't a first man

Sure - but I can see with Cams value that being the type package and I easily take him over Lauri in that case. I can see Cam being just one first like the CHI pick or SA 29 lottery protected.

[timtonymanu]

Spurs have the best chance to get him, of course that means it won't happen. Presti would have had this deal done 2 days ago. (Sniffer bait)

[Chinook]

I dont think he needs to be vet enough when the skillset is a perfect match not only starting but unlocking a lot for the other guys. Im cool with Grant too especially because hes a player that will retain value should SA only want him for a season or two and then trade him

To me, the vet part is what really matters. This is about experience and learning to win, while growing up. While Cam has the better contract and isn't likely to decline during it, he doesn't know how to be a number 1. Grant, as one of the many hats he's worn over his colorful career, actually does. On equal contracts, this is a no-brainer. But in the real world, neither is perfect and both would be fine if the price were right.

[scott]

Ainge probably has some kind of grudge against Pop from the mid-90s and now he's going to use this just to fuck with him. Dangle the carrot long enough for Pop to wake up and fall out his rocking chair, and then execute the trade to Presti.

[Blizzardwizard]

I sometimes can appreciate why Mr. Body tells people to kill themselves. Not always, but sometimes.

Rather that than have him tell me the long-term value of Branham and Wesley tbh

[timtonymanu]

Rather that than have him tell me the long-term value of Branham and Wesley tbh

You know Body wouldn't be singing the same tune if Branham was playing on any other team right now. :lol "They wasted their pick on Branham."

[Mr. Body]

You know Body wouldn't be singing the same tune if Branham was playing on any other team right now. :lol "They wasted their pick on Branham."

You know what's funny? I don't know who nearly anybody here is. Almost everyone has the same name. There are a few people who never say anything remotely interesting, like that Kony guy, just comes in to wail and bitch. Some others make really good points and are interesting like Bowen and Bill and I'm assuming those are relatively right as far as names go.

Yet everyone is obsessed with me. You are, and I have no fucking idea who you are.

Kind of hilarious, in my estimation.

[DPG21920]

Im going to laugh when CHA makes the play-in and beats an injured MIA to make the playoffs and that pick conveys

[timtonymanu]

You know what's funny? I don't know who nearly anybody here is. Almost everyone has the same name. There are a few people who never say anything remotely interesting, like that Kony guy, just comes in to wail and bitch. Some others make really good points and are interesting like Bowen and Bill and I'm assuming those are relatively right as far as names go.

Yet everyone is obsessed with me. You are, and I have no fucking idea who you are.

Kind of hilarious, in my estimation.

You inject your stupidity into every thread. :lol Act like I follow you around or something.

[spurraider21]

Im going to laugh when CHA makes the play-in and beats an injured MIA to make the playoffs and that pick conveys
from your mouth to god's ears, tbh

[vy65]

It’s the constant negative drumbeat.

Man, I hate all these Hitler detractors. The constant negative drumbeat is really taking away from all the great work we’re doing in Birkenau

[Knoxxx]

50 minutes ago, GS, Kings, SAS all have substantial offers on the table:

https://www.nbcsportsbayarea.com/nba/golden-state-warriors/trade-rumors-lauri-markkanen-spurs-kings/1752155/?amp=1

[baseline bum]

Ainge probably has some kind of grudge against Pop from the mid-90s and now he's going to use this just to fuck with him. Dangle the carrot long enough for Pop to wake up and fall out his rocking chair, and then execute the trade to Presti.

Presti's the one GM that can son Ainge; Danny is better off picking on PATFO.

[baseline bum]

Im going to laugh when CHA makes the play-in and beats an injured MIA to make the playoffs and that pick conveys

After you have traded it for Cam Johnson?

[Degoat]

Feel like GSW has to be in the drivers seat out of SA and SAC. They’re desperate and those post curry picks will be amazing

[KobesAchilles]

I’m glad to see some people on Spurstalk are waking up to the fact that Wright hasn’t proven he can draft at all. And that us having draft picks don’t mean shit if we keep picking the wrong guy. Chinook is right. We need vets. It’s why I want Gordon Hayward or even Batum. But if we have the ammo to go get Lauri then we should do it.

I mean if Wright is such a good drafter then we already will have a contender bc we have 4 lottery picks starting. Unless people here on Spurstalk don’t believe in Sochan and Vassell and Castle

[DPG21920]

After you have traded it for Cam Johnson?

Correct and then those who said the pick had no value will complain SA overpaid for Cam

[Knoxxx]

Come on CHA isn't a first man

Shhhh we are not trying to advertise that! Actually it’s a perfect throw in tie breaker. We match the FRPs of another team and throw this one in. AND it definitely converts into two possibly high 2nd round picks if CHA continues to suck.

Stop dissin on our CHA 2025 FRP rights!

[Wilt Chamberlain]

Feel like GSW has to be in the drivers seat out of SA and SAC. They’re desperate and those post curry picks will be amazing

Spurs have been mentioned since the beginning. Them offering one of the ATL picks, the Minny picks, plus Johnson/Sochan is going to be hard for anyone to beat.

The ATL picks have a good chance of being lottery either this year with them trading Murray for picks or in 2027 when Young could be gone. The Minny picks are 6 years out but have the potential to be any pick.

Those are all better than you get with improving the SAC or the GSW who can only offer picks likely to be of playoff teams and players which Ainge really doesn't really want. He is dumping talent and acquiring picks.

If you look at Ainge's assets he has Minn and the Cleveland picks. Minnesota made the finals and improved. Cleveland came in fourth but really has not done much to improve like my 76ers or the Magic. They are still in to the hunt for 5-playin while Ainge has their picks.

The ATL pick would be their crown asset and the Minny crapshoot picks in the future would be on par with the more immediate playin+ Cleveland picks.

[DPG21920]

Spurs have been mentioned since the beginning. Them offering one of the ATL picks, the Minny picks, plus Johnson/Sochan is going to be hard for anyone to beat.

The ATL picks have a good chance of being lottery either this year with them trading Murray for picks or in 2027 when Young could be gone. The Minny picks are 6 years out but have the potential to be any pick.

Those are all better than you get with improving the SAC or the GSW who can only offer picks likely to be of playoff teams and players which Ainge really doesn't really want. He is dumping talent and acquiring picks.

If you look at Ainge's assets he has Minn and the Cleveland picks. Minnesota made the finals and improved. Cleveland came in fourth but really has not done much to improve like my 76ers or the Magic. They are still in to the hunt for 5-playin while Ainge has their picks.

The ATL pick would be their crown asset and the Minny crapshoot picks in the future would be on par with the more immediate playin+ Cleveland picks.

Theres ZERO chance IMO spurs trade all the ATL picks (and especially alongside the MIN picks) for Lauri. They would be idiots to do so.

ATL 25 + MIN 31 + MIN 30 swap and a player. Thats it (outside of seconds or something like CHA pick)

[Wilt Chamberlain]

Theres ZERO chance IMO spurs trade all the ATL picks (and especially alongside the MIN picks) for Lauri. They would be idiots to do so.

ATL 25 + MIN 31 + MIN 30 swap and a player. Thats it (outside of seconds or something like CHA pick)

Absolutely that is why I said the ATL pick plus the Minny picks being worth more than anything anyone else had on offer.

[Knoxxx]

Theres ZERO chance IMO spurs trade all the ATL picks (and especially alongside the MIN picks) for Lauri. They would be idiots to do so.

ATL 25 + MIN 31 + MIN 30 swap and a player. Thats it (outside of seconds or something like CHA pick)

If we are going to give up our 25 pick or ATL, needs to be worse of or some other kind of protection attached.

[Mugen]

https://media1.giphy.com/media/wODxPdYYSq31C/200.gif

[DPG21920]

If we are going to give up our 25 pick or ATL, needs to be worse of or some other kind of protection attached.

I would love that but Im trying to think through what would win SA Lauri while also not being a massive overpay risk/reward wise. Im fairly certain ATL 25 would be involved as is if SA is going to win on Lauri

[baseline bum]

If we are going to give up our 25 pick or ATL, needs to be worse of or some other kind of protection attached.

So our offer can be shitty and we lose out on him?

[baseline bum]

I would love that but Im trying to think through what would win SA Lauri while also not being a massive overpay risk/reward wise. Im fairly certain ATL 25 would be involved as is if SA is going to win on Lauri

I'd offer the 26 pick with the unprotected ATL swap instead since Ainge already has multiple 25 picks and the 26 pick probably conveys higher anyways since Trae is likely gone from Atlanta by then. The Spurs need some talent on the roster and I'd rather not wait until 26 for that whereas Ainge isn't trying to start winning yet. Lotta upside in the 26 pick with Dybantsa and Boozer coming out so should be an extremely attractive pick to Utah.

[Knoxxx]

I thought it was posted no trading of swap rights?

[DPG21920]

I'd offer the 26 pick with the unprotected ATL swap instead since Ainge already has multiple 25 picks and the 26 pick probably conveys higher anyways since Trae is likely gone from Atlanta by then. The Spurs need some talent on the roster and I'd rather not wait until 26 for that whereas Ainge isn't trying to start winning yet. Lotta upside in the 26 pick with Dybantsa and Boozer coming out so should be an extremely attractive pick to Utah.

I’d be good with that too (I’d prefer it honestly)

[Wilt Chamberlain]

I thought it was posted no trading of swap rights?

You trade the pick and the swap rights attached to it. The Spurs would not have a 26 FRP if they trade the 26 swap.

[Chinook]

I thought it was posted no trading of swap rights?

Basically, the Spurs are only in line to get one 2026 pick, one 2028 pick and one 2030 pick. The can trade whatever pick they end up getting, or they can trade the right to swap whatever pick they get with a pick the other team has. What they can't do is make ATL, BOS, DAL or MINN swap their pick and receive the pick from a new team. Like Dallas cannot receive Minnesota's pick in 2030. They can only receive their own pick or the Spurs pick, because that's what they agreed to. Minny can receive Dallas' pick, because they agreed to allow SA to swap whichever pick they had between SAS30 and DAL30 with MIN30. So it the Spurs gave 2030 swap rights to like Orlando, the Mavs would get the worst of DAL30 and SAS30, the Wolves would get the worst of (DAL30 and SAS30) and MIN30, and Orlando would get the best of ((DAL30 and SAS30) and MIN30) and ORL30.

So if the order was:

1 DAL
2 SAS
3 ORL
4 MIN

The swaps would be resolved as such:

DAL would get SAS30,
MIN would get MIN30,
SAS would get ORL30,
and
ORL would get DAL30

[Chinook]

So I didn't intend to be up this late. I'll just say quickly that I've been looking around to see about Mark's extension eligibility date. From what I found, it looks like the NBA might have adjusted the date of contracts signed during the 2021 off-season to reflect 07/06/2021. If this is true, Mark is eligible for a renegotiation/extension starting Saturday. Local Jazz sources believe the adjusted date would be 08/06, though the explanation looked like gobbledygook to me. The 07/06 date is what Keith Smith has on Spotrac, and that date is consistent for other players who signed extensions that summer like Jarrett Allen. Smith is very good at what he does, so I assume he's correct. But it would seem weird to me that Utah would be will within the range of being able to report that they've come to an agreement with Mark on a new long-term deal but haven't yet. After all, Donovan Mitchell's extension date is also 07/06 because he also signed in August of 2021. Yet there's no confusion on his date.

Anyway, maybe both sides are keeping talks quiet and will break a new deal soon. But combined with the rumors of a trade make me wonder if the two sides aren't really seeing eye-to-eye on a new deal. Maybe Mark doesn't want to sign over his prime to a guy who seems to keep wanting to tank, or maybe the Jazz don't want to renegotiate just to give Mark a max anyway. I don't know. But something isn't adding up here. Maybe the eligibility date is different than the other dates and Smith doesn't know. Maybe Markkanen is asking out. Maybe Ainge really is trying to find a win-now trade to try for a playoff run. Maybe, maybe, maybe.

I don't know, y'all. I'm going to bed. Happy Fourth, everyone.

[mystargtr34]

My offer would max out at this.

Keldon
25 Chicago
25 Charlotte
26 Spurs with Atlanta swap
28 Spurs with Boston swap
30 Spurs with Minnesota and Dallas swap
31 Minnesota

That’s 6 outright FRPs at face value. In reality it’s 5 FRP with 2 seconds (Charlotte). 4 of those 5 FRP are basically unprotected.

Any more picks than this and it’s starts to feel like an uncomfortable overpay.

[sfernald]

For those still out on sending out a big haul of picks for Mark, remember how it has worked out for the last two teams who threw a fortune of picks at Ainge’s pole-rubbing feet in Utah.

Cleveland got Mitchell and just resigned. He’s the kind of player that should never be traded. So good. Headed for top 10 almost certainly. Now that they have him locked up, their picks aren’t worth much and they killed that trade.

Wolves got Gobert and everyone thought they fucked up but he almost got them a championship this year. He has already brought them a championship level defense. At this point there’s no way to argue with that trade being anything but fantastic for the Wolves with what a top contender they have become. A resoundingly successful trade!

The only real team I still worry about is Okc. I know they are never mentioned in the articles. But that’s how it goes with them. They are a bit of a stealth bomber. You won’t notice until the bomb is coming through your kitchen window. Just the same you won’t hear anything about an Okc trade until you read about it in the paper (wait do they still make those?)

[scott]

My offer would max out at this.

Keldon
25 Chicago
25 Charlotte
26 Spurs with Atlanta swap
28 Spurs with Boston swap
30 Spurs with Minnesota and Dallas swap
31 Minnesota

That’s 6 outright FRPs at face value. In reality it’s 5 FRP with 2 seconds (Charlotte). 4 of those 5 FRP are basically unprotected.

Any more picks than this and it’s starts to feel like an uncomfortable overpay.

Love the aggressiveness! That's an offer that beats everyone else, hands down (and more than I would offer, tbh, but fuck yeah let's do it)

[rankingtear]

So I didn't intend to be up this late. I'll just say quickly that I've been looking around to see about Mark's extension eligibility date. From what I found, it looks like the NBA might have adjusted the date of contracts signed during the 2021 off-season to reflect 07/06/2021. If this is true, Mark is eligible for a renegotiation/extension starting Saturday. Local Jazz sources believe the adjusted date would be 08/06, though the explanation looked like gobbledygook to me. The 07/06 date is what Keith Smith has on Spotrac, and that date is consistent for other players who signed extensions that summer like Jarrett Allen. Smith is very good at what he does, so I assume he's correct. But it would seem weird to me that Utah would be will within the range of being able to report that they've come to an agreement with Mark on a new long-term deal but haven't yet. After all, Donovan Mitchell's extension date is also 07/06 because he also signed in August of 2021. Yet there's no confusion on his date.

Anyway, maybe both sides are keeping talks quiet and will break a new deal soon. But combined with the rumors of a trade make me wonder if the two sides aren't really seeing eye-to-eye on a new deal. Maybe Mark doesn't want to sign over his prime to a guy who seems to keep wanting to tank, or maybe the Jazz don't want to renegotiate just to give Mark a max anyway. I don't know. But something isn't adding up here. Maybe the eligibility date is different than the other dates and Smith doesn't know. Maybe Markkanen is asking out. Maybe Ainge really is trying to find a win-now trade to try for a playoff run. Maybe, maybe, maybe.

I don't know, y'all. I'm going to bed. Happy Fourth, everyone.

Mark is eligible for an extension last year. 7/6 is just the start of the new season there is no transaction between june 1-5. His adjusted 3 year for negotiation is still august. I believe they just went with percentage of the days of the offseason.

[SpursBills]

Love the Markkanen fit - he's probably one of the most unique archetypes in the NBA. Tall movement shooters his size don't come around that often, and the more prolific ones are either not as tall/good or not as good a shooter. He's a low friction fit just like every other shooter, the question is ultimately going to be his contract and his assets moving forward.

I actually think somewhere between Bargnani and Dirk is a reasonable range for him - the below are the 4 guys I was thinking most closely approximated him in playstyle, size, and overall impact. It's not perfect, but it may provide a reasonable place to start when we're talking about assets to give up for him.

https://i.postimg.cc/7YKtHGQN/Lauri.png

[rankingtear]

He is a good fit in our system and they have made a competitive offer. You can't overdo it, some things that look good on paper fail all the time especially true for established players.

[DPG21920]

Love the aggressiveness! That's an offer that beats everyone else, hands down (and more than I would offer, tbh, but fuck yeah let's do it)

I think this is insane. Lauri is good but not that good. People are wayyyyy to turned on by the thought of adding someone.

He doesn’t self create much. He’s not a great defender. Hes a guy that needs to be setup to hit 3s to have max value and with Wemby and Dev here he will be a third option so what will that value be to spurs with his lack of self creation, defense issues and inability to get to FT line at high rate?

I like Lauri and he would be a good fit but paying that price for a souped up Doug McDermott or “Richard Jefferson” (RJ meaning his role on the spurs - they aren’t similar players) type is just bad business IMVHO.

[Dejounte]

I think this is insane. Lauri is good but not that good. People are wayyyyy to turned on by the thought of adding someone.

He doesn’t self create much. He’s not a great defender. Hes a guy that needs to be setup to hit 3s to have max value and with Wemby and Dev here he will be a third option so what will that value be to spurs with his lack of self creation, defense issues and inability to get to FT line at high rate?

I like Lauri and he would be a good fit but paying that price for a souped up Doug McDermott or “Richard Jefferson” (RJ meaning his role on the spurs - they aren’t similar players) type is just bad business IMVHO.

Go to my thread and find a single player worth giving everything up for.

[DPG21920]

Go to my thread and find a single player worth giving everything up for.

I did see your thread - there’s no many worth it and the ones that are aren’t available at the moment. Do you think spurs should give up 5+ firsts for Lauri?

[LeBowen]

I did see your thread - there’s no many worth it and the ones that are aren’t available at the moment. Do you think spurs should give up 5+ firsts for Lauri?

Did you see my in-depth post at the end?
We're literally not getting an all-star wing in the next three years unless we get Lauri.
If someone becomes available, the asking price will be both 4 FRPs and Devin or Castle.
If we get Lauri for 4 FRPs, we'd still have 9 FRPs and 20 SRPs left in the next 7 drafts.
Add Brian Wright's drafting record into equation and I'm taking Lauri over his talent evaluation.

[Dejounte]

I did see your thread - there’s no many worth it and the ones that are aren’t available at the moment. Do you think spurs should give up 5+ firsts for Lauri?
It’s not about who is available at the moment. It’s about applying the hypothetical. You can get anyone from the list by giving up the farm. Who are those players? If there aren’t any, then you should start maybe reconsidering your position on this.

[benefactor]

Did you see my in-depth post at the end?
We're literally not getting an all-star wing in the next three years unless we get Lauri.
If someone becomes available, the asking price will be both 4 FRPs and Devin or Castle.
If we get Lauri for 4 FRPs, we'd still have 9 FRPs and 20 SRPs left in the next 7 drafts.
Add Brian Wright's drafting record into equation and I'm taking Lauri over his talent evaluation.
I'm leaning more and more this direction after going back and forth about it. It all comes down to which is more of a sure thing. You basically answered that question completely with this post.

[DPG21920]

It’s not about who is available at the moment. It’s about applying the hypothetical. You can get anyone from the list by giving up the farm. Who are those players? If there aren’t any, then you should start maybe reconsidering your position on this.

It’s the opposite. I clearly have guys who are worth it (especially if hypothetically):

Luka, Booker, Fox, Tatum, Brown, Greek Freak

Lauri is 100% not on the list.

[DPG21920]

Lauri is more Doug a McDermott than he is an elite wing. Majority of his stuff is setup. Hes not a defensive boost. Elite means you can self create, get to line at high clip and don’t need to be spoon fed to have max value especially because you don’t make up for it net net in defense boost

[Chinook]

Mark is eligible for an extension last year. 7/6 is just the start of the new season there is no transaction between june 1-5. His adjusted 3 year for negotiation is still august. I believe they just went with percentage of the days of the offseason.

Mark isn't eligible for his renegotiation until his third anniversary. Because 2021 had a late start, there has been talk that the NBA adjusted the anniversary of his signing to reflect 08/06, or the start of the 2021-2022 league year. That idea is not sound on its face. Anniversaries are adjusted for contracts signed between October 2 and the beginning of the league year to reflect 10/01 in order to allow rookie extensions to be eligible for additional extensions, renegotiations, etc. We learned this during the Murray situation a few years ago. But the CBA didn't have any carve-out for 2021 in it, which I imagine would've been helpful to get in writing. It's possible the league put out a memo, but from what I can see, the belief that the adjustment happened seems to be due to a tweet chain by some Utah media members

1805301911400464727

Like why they would believe this, I don't know, and as far as I can tell everyone else is referencing this conversation. What I don't know is if this got confirmed later on, because there are RGMers who act as if that did happen.

As far as why Smith has the 07/06 date, maybe you're correct about it simply referring to when he can sign an extension at all. I find it troubling that he doesn't have a separate date for renegotiation. Whether that's because he assumes it's the same date, doesn't know the answer or just doesn't care to track renegotiation deadlines due to how rare they matter, I don't know.

[DPG21920]

Did you see my in-depth post at the end?
We're literally not getting an all-star wing in the next three years unless we get Lauri.
If someone becomes available, the asking price will be both 4 FRPs and Devin or Castle.
If we get Lauri for 4 FRPs, we'd still have 9 FRPs and 20 SRPs left in the next 7 drafts.
Add Brian Wright's drafting record into equation and I'm taking Lauri over his talent evaluation.

I’m good with that cost later especially if it’s someone better than Lauri; someone that can self create more alongside defend at a high level.

I have no issue with going all in. I have an issue with doing it for Lauri

[Mr. Body]

I think this is insane. Lauri is good but not that good. People are wayyyyy to turned on by the thought of adding someone.

He doesn’t self create much. He’s not a great defender. Hes a guy that needs to be setup to hit 3s to have max value and with Wemby and Dev here he will be a third option so what will that value be to spurs with his lack of self creation, defense issues and inability to get to FT line at high rate?

I like Lauri and he would be a good fit but paying that price for a souped up Doug McDermott or “Richard Jefferson” (RJ meaning his role on the spurs - they aren’t similar players) type is just bad business IMVHO.

Yessir. People just want to spend money at the mall.

Markkanen is soft as baby shit. He's a bad defender. He cannot pass. If you managed to draft him or could get him at a smaller salary? If he cost the CHI and CHA like he should (and didn't cost a max salary)? Sure.

I compared him to Dejounte for a reason. Dejounte was near a triple double average when he got the All-Star reserve nod and was traded. When his usage went down at Atlanta, suddenly he didn't look quite so great. Okay player, but not what they paid for, because they misunderstood what stats on a bad team mean. Once Markkanen goes elsewhere he's getting back to pedestrian, and he doesn't do anything else on the court to warrant what you paid and are paying.

For the Kings? A very specific player they may be okay wildly overpaying for? Maybe. Not if they lose Keegan Murray.

The question has to be "am I okay spending all this (salary, resources) for a 15-16 ppg player"? And the answer is, "Of course not."

[LeBowen]

It’s the opposite. I clearly have guys who are worth it (especially if hypothetically):

Luka, Booker, Fox, Tatum, Brown, Greek Freak

Lauri is 100% not on the list.

All those players would require double the package.
Both 5 FRPs and a couple of young players.
If you're trading for any of them, you're not keeping your second and third best player on the roster.
That's why superstar trades often fail, the remaining roster is gutted and all the picks are gone.

Not to mention that everyone on the list is an extremely unrealistic target, making your posts kind of pointless.
I understand people who don't want Markkanen or want to build through the draft (despite PATFO trading picks away), but anyone who's saying Markkanen isn't the right target either doesn't follow the league or is a contrarian for the sake of it.
You can't name a single other realistic target Spurs could get in the next few years that wouldn't gut the roster and cap situation.

[NASpurs]

No new news but there's a part I don't like:

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2024/07/latest-on-lauri-markkanen-2.html

"Utah’s stance on Lauri is the same and it has been the same for a long time: We don’t want to trade Lauri, so you’re going to have to make us trade him.”

“I’ve still been told that Utah prefers to keep Lauri and renegotiate and extend him,” he said. “They can’t do that though until August 6, so why not spend the next month fielding offers, and telling the Kings, ‘Yeah, we’d do it if you give us Keegan Murray,’ and telling the Warriors, ‘Yeah, give us three picks and Podz (Brandin Podziemski (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/podzibr01.html?utm_medium=linker&utm_source=www.hoopsrumors.com&utm_campaign=2024-07-04_bbr)) and whatever.’ … It doesn’t hurt to listen.



Whatever it's going to be, seems like it's going to have to be an overpay.

[DPG21920]

Yes. Teams, like okc did with hartenstein, can overpay for Lauri types even if it’s not smart value because they are ready to win now and even if he’s excess in costs he fits well.

Spurs are NOT in that position and paying 5+ firsts + Keldon or god forbid Sochan or Dev for Lauri to be a third option since Wemby/Dev are still going to be the highest usage guys due to style of play and skillset (aka self creation) is just too much for me

I understand LeBowen logic and well thought out thinking and approach; I simply disagree with his conclusion that Lauri in particular is worth it.

[DPG21920]

All those players would require double the package.
Both 5 FRPs and a couple of young players.
If you're trading for any of them, you're not keeping your second and third best player on the roster.
That's why superstar trades often fail, the remaining roster is gutted and all the picks are gone.

Not to mention that everyone on the list is an extremely unrealistic target, making your posts kind of pointless.
I understand people who don't want Markkanen or want to build through the draft (despite PATFO trading picks away), but anyone who's saying Markkanen isn't the right target either doesn't follow the league or is a contrarian for the sake of it.
You can't name a single other realistic target Spurs could get in the next few years that wouldn't gut the roster and cap situation.

Lmao I said that exact thing and was told it was a simple mental exercise. I literally said there’s no one realistic at this point. Quite literally said that.

But I don’t care if it’s double the cost if/when someone that’s a legit star is available. I’d give up 20 picks to pair a legit top 10 player with Wemby

Lauri doesn’t automatically become worth it when you factor in Sa could very well draft a player that’s better

[Chinook]

No new news but there's a part I don't like:

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2024/07/latest-on-lauri-markkanen-2.html

"Utah’s stance on Lauri is the same and it has been the same for a long time: We don’t want to trade Lauri, so you’re going to have to make us trade him.”

“I’ve still been told that Utah prefers to keep Lauri and renegotiate and extend him,” he said. “They can’t do that though until August 6, so why not spend the next month fielding offers, and telling the Kings, ‘Yeah, we’d do it if you give us Keegan Murray,’ and telling the Warriors, ‘Yeah, give us three picks and Podz (Brandin Podziemski (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/podzibr01.html?utm_medium=linker&utm_source=www.hoopsrumors.com&utm_campaign=2024-07-04_bbr)) and whatever.’ … It doesn’t hurt to listen.



Whatever it's going to be, seems like it's going to have to be an overpay.

See, there's the August 6 date coming out of someone else's mouth. Why do people think this? Nowhere in the CBA does it say the anniversary gets pushed up to the start of the league year. I've seen nothing about the NBA saying the contracts signed during the summer of 2021 would all be given 08/06 dates. Mark took three weeks into the off-season to sign his deal, so even if there was an adjustment, I don't know why it's just assumed he'd be part of it. Colin Sexton signed a deal in September of 2022, and he doesn't get an accelerated anniversary date. Like what the fuck?

[RC_Drunkford]

I’m glad to see some people on Spurstalk are waking up to the fact that Wright hasn’t proven he can draft at all. And that us having draft picks don’t mean shit if we keep picking the wrong guy. Chinook is right. We need vets. It’s why I want Gordon Hayward or even Batum. But if we have the ammo to go get Lauri then we should do it.

I mean if Wright is such a good drafter then we already will have a contender bc we have 4 lottery picks starting. Unless people here on Spurstalk don’t believe in Sochan and Vassell and Castle

you want our whole roster to join Scientology or whatever sect he's in? OKC already said it was a huge mistake to bring him on. We should stay away from that guy,

[stnick2261]

Did you see my in-depth post at the end?
We're literally not getting an all-star wing in the next three years unless we get Lauri.
If someone becomes available, the asking price will be both 4 FRPs and Devin or Castle.

you've literally just convinced me that we need to tank this year. If the only personal available in the next 3 years would be an overpay, then we just need to tank for Ace Bailey and sign Lauri as a free agent next summer.


If we get Lauri for 4 FRPs, we'd still have 9 FRPs and 20 SRPs left in the next 7 drafts.
Add Brian Wright's drafting record into equation and I'm taking Lauri over his talent evaluation.

Not all FRPs are equal. If we are giving 4 FRPs for Lauri, they can't be the expected lottery picks. Especially if you don't have confidence in Wright's drafting record; Wright did good drafting Wemby, but that was because it was a no-brainer. 2025 draft will have some no-brainers if we are drafting high enough.

I definitely want Lauri, but I would still limit myself to our own natural picks in non-swap years ('27, '29, '31) as well as CHA and CHI.

[Knoxxx]

My offer would max out at this.

Keldon
25 Chicago
25 Charlotte
26 Spurs with Atlanta swap
28 Spurs with Boston swap
30 Spurs with Minnesota and Dallas swap
31 Minnesota

That’s 6 outright FRPs at face value. In reality it’s 5 FRP with 2 seconds (Charlotte). 4 of those 5 FRP are basically unprotected.

Any more picks than this and it’s starts to feel like an uncomfortable overpay.

By 27 the Spurs should be betting on themselves and maybe sooner. Thus our own picks will see a drop in value and should be the ones we are trying to trade away:

SAS 27
SAS 29
SAS 31

Not saying your list is bad, but I’d try to use one or more of those in place of the 26, 30, and 31 picks on your list. Throwing in Keldon also may give a leg up, as GS and SAC were reportedly unwilling to give UTA the particular players they wanted. Kuminga/Murray.

[Ariel]

No new news but there's a part I don't like:

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2024/07/latest-on-lauri-markkanen-2.html

"Utah’s stance on Lauri is the same and it has been the same for a long time: We don’t want to trade Lauri, so you’re going to have to make us trade him.”

“I’ve still been told that Utah prefers to keep Lauri and renegotiate and extend him,” he said. “They can’t do that though until August 6, so why not spend the next month fielding offers, and telling the Kings, ‘Yeah, we’d do it if you give us Keegan Murray,’ and telling the Warriors, ‘Yeah, give us three picks and Podz (Brandin Podziemski (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/podzibr01.html?utm_medium=linker&utm_source=www.hoopsrumors.com&utm_campaign=2024-07-04_bbr)) and whatever.’ … It doesn’t hurt to listen.

Whatever it's going to be, seems like it's going to have to be an overpay.
But of course, what was anyone thinking? Ainge has done it a million times, you'd think people would have learned by now, but reading these forums it's clear they haven't. Ainge needs to trade Lauri before the season starts because he's finally accepted anything other than a hard tank won't get him the franchise player he needs. He failed to accept reality in Wemby's draft, and that was a huge fuck up, he won't repeat the same in '25. He's teasing teams right and left, trying to create a bidding war which only he can win. Spurs should put up a good offer, draw the line and be willing to walk away if the price goes up beyond reason. The world doesn't start or end with Markkanen.

[DPG21920]

Boiled down: I think this package if held onto either to draft or trade later has a 70% chance at yielding a better player than Lauri in addition to the ramifications of that (ie not paying that player 40m+ immediately) set the team up much better

Keldon
25 Chicago
25 Charlotte
26 Spurs with Atlanta swap
28 Spurs with Boston swap
30 Spurs with Minnesota and Dallas swap
31 Minnesota

[sfernald]

Lmao I said that exact thing and was told it was a simple mental exercise. I literally said there’s no one realistic at this point. Quite literally said that.

But I don’t care if it’s double the cost if/when someone that’s a legit star is available. I’d give up 20 picks to pair a legit top 10 player with Wemby

Lauri doesn’t automatically become worth it when you factor in Sa could very well draft a player that’s better

This is why I’ve really been regretting that Spurs didn’t draft Buzelis with that 8th pick. I feel like he was the one forward who really had the upside to be better than Mark. Had the smooth shot and signs of developing as a great shooter plus he had really strong creation ability upside. I was sold on him when I watched that all-star night performance where he went toe-to-toe against Chet and Wemby dropping Dirk jumpers in their faces. That would have let us not be having all these worries right now and we would have a really nice shot of developing our core totally from within the way Okc has.

[Ariel]

The offers I read here are crazy. People really should go over what it took Minnesota and Cleveland to get Gobert and Mitchell respectively. It was 3 unprotected picks and swaps from playoff teams, of which maybe one might be in the lottery. Not 5 unprotected picks with swap included from multiple teams, of which probably 3 or more have a high chance of being high lottery. Reminds me of the uproar for Lavine in this very board 2 years ago, when it was evident it would end up badly. Going back to that thread for another read might provide some perspective. Imagine the Spurs now with Lavine instead of Wemby. Spurs won't be a contender with Lauri in the next 2 years, maybe in years 3-5 he can be. But they can also be contenders in those years without him. If he can be had at a reasonable price, sure. Otherwise they shouldn't be fooled into buying somebody else's sense of urgency.

[CGD]

No new news but there's a part I don't like:

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2024/07/latest-on-lauri-markkanen-2.html

"Utah’s stance on Lauri is the same and it has been the same for a long time: We don’t want to trade Lauri, so you’re going to have to make us trade him.”

“I’ve still been told that Utah prefers to keep Lauri and renegotiate and extend him,” he said. “They can’t do that though until August 6, so why not spend the next month fielding offers, and telling the Kings, ‘Yeah, we’d do it if you give us Keegan Murray,’ and telling the Warriors, ‘Yeah, give us three picks and Podz (Brandin Podziemski (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/podzibr01.html?utm_medium=linker&utm_source=www.hoopsrumors.com&utm_campaign=2024-07-04_bbr)) and whatever.’ … It doesn’t hurt to listen.



Whatever it's going to be, seems like it's going to have to be an overpay.

Ok Utah, lol!

[DPG21920]

This is why I’ve really been regretting that Spurs didn’t draft Buzelis with that 8th pick. I feel like he was the one forward who really had the upside to be better than Mark. Had the smooth shot and signs of developing as a great shooter plus he had really strong creation ability upside. I was sold on him when I watched that all-star night performance where he went toe-to-toe against Chet and Wemby dropping Dirk jumpers in their faces. That would have let us not be having all these worries right now and we would have a really nice shot of developing our core totally from within the way Okc has.

Yup. Buzelis or not it was a big gamble from spurs fo essentially saying no player pick 8+ had all star potential

[Sugus]

Boiled down: I think this package if held onto either to draft or trade later has a 70% chance at yielding a better player than Lauri in addition to the ramifications of that (ie not paying that player 40m+ immediately) set the team up much better

Keldon
25 Chicago
25 Charlotte
26 Spurs with Atlanta swap
28 Spurs with Boston swap
30 Spurs with Minnesota and Dallas swap
31 Minnesota

Yeah, I'm with you on this. People are eager to overpay just to get the "shiny new teammate", but the Spurs could do much better with those assets separately.

Lauri is a great fit but not blow-the-load great. And yes, I'd rather wait to see which other players become available - which has never been more of a certainty to happen than in this modern era of the NBA.

Besides, the constraints of the new CBA very well may push previously-contending teams into shipping off players to stay off the dreaded new aprons. This is almost certain to happen to teams like MWK or Denver, and you need to have assets for that moment. I'd rather wait on this than gut the war chest for Klay Thompson 2.0.

[TD 21]

It’s the opposite. I clearly have guys who are worth it (especially if hypothetically):

Luka, Booker, Fox, Tatum, Brown, Greek Freak

Lauri is 100% not on the list.

Booker and Fox are the only two with a decent-good chance to come available within' a few years, but neither is a superstar (Booker is borderline All-NBA and Fox is borderline All-Star) and both will be pushing 30 at that point.



Yes. Teams, like okc did with hartenstein, can overpay for Lauri types even if it’s not smart value because they are ready to win now and even if he’s excess in costs he fits well.

Spurs are NOT in that position and paying 5+ firsts + Keldon or god forbid Sochan or Dev for Lauri to be a third option since Wemby/Dev are still going to be the highest usage guys due to style of play and skillset (aka self creation) is just too much for me

I understand LeBowen logic and well thought out thinking and approach; I simply disagree with his conclusion that Lauri in particular is worth it.

This "ready to win" nonsense needs to be taken behind the barn. This is an atypical situation. They don't have some run of the mill centerpiece to build around, they have an all time one and history shows those players become elite and drag their teams to at least being goodish sooner than later.

They don't need to see it and then react. If what they want is available now (speaking generally), they shouldn't hesitate to pull the trigger.

They have so much draft capital, it'd be virtually impossible to blow their entire load anyway.

[LeBowen]

you've literally just convinced me that we need to tank this year. If the only personal available in the next 3 years would be an overpay, then we just need to tank for Ace Bailey and sign Lauri as a free agent next summer.

That's the problem.
We can't tank if Wemby is healthy. He's easily going to average 25/12 with DPOY defense. And he wants to be on the GOAT trajectory.
There are at least 6, probably 8 teams that will blatantly tank and be under 30 wins.
And even we were to tank, odds would still be against us to land in top3. Look at what's happening to the Pistons every single year.
We got lucky three times in past two drafts. Sometimes it's better to not push your luck.


Not all FRPs are equal. If we are giving 4 FRPs for Lauri, they can't be the expected lottery picks. Especially if you don't have confidence in Wright's drafting record; Wright did good drafting Wemby, but that was because it was a no-brainer. 2025 draft will have some no-brainers if we are drafting high enough.

I made a detailed post about value of our FRP picks. Other than '27 ATL if Trae opts out and leaves, none will be better than late lottery at best.
Minnesota picks are a wildcard, our own picks after '25 shouldn't be in the lottery.


I definitely want Lauri, but I would still limit myself to our own natural picks in non-swap years ('27, '29, '31) as well as CHA and CHI.

The price most of us in here would be happy with are Chicago FRP, Minnesota FRP and swap and then one more '26 or '27 pick.
If Wright didn't get those Minnesota picks to use them for Lauri because they have extra value to Jazz that already owns Minnesota's future, then he's an even bigger idiot than we thought.
You can't say you're building through the draft and then waste picks away.

[Chinook]

The offers I read here are crazy. People really should go over what it took Minnesota and Cleveland to get Gobert and Mitchell respectively. It was 3 unprotected picks and swaps from playoff teams, of which maybe one might be in the lottery. Not 5 unprotected picks with swap included from multiple teams, of which probably 3 or more have a high chance of being high lottery. Reminds me of the uproar for Lavine in this very board 2 years ago, when it was evident it would end up badly. Going back to that thread for another read might provide some perspective. Imagine the Spurs now with Lavine instead of Wemby. Spurs won't be a contender with Lauri in the next 2 years, maybe in years 3-5 he can be. But they can also be contenders in those years without him. If he can be had at a reasonable price, sure. Otherwise they shouldn't be fooled into buying somebody else's sense of urgency.

The important thing is that the teams trading for the players are giving basically everything they had. The Spurs have more, and thus they should pay more. Or something. I don't think the juice is worth the squeeze right now. I think Indy played this much better than folks want the Spurs to. A few posters really love Mark, and so any price that doesn't cripple the team is worth paying for him. I'm not in that camp, but I also think if the Spurs want Mark, they're going to end up getting outbid by a team willing to debase themselves if they don't come correct. The Spurs can afford to get what they want. But this type of bidding war is a big reason why I wanted the Spurs to aim for an older vet wing while drafting a young wing prospect rather than trying to play the trade game for guys in their 20s. You get the impact you want (probably even a better impact) and the future you want (a more sustainable future), but it costs less.

[DPG21920]

Booker and Fox are the only two with a decent-good chance to come available within' a few years, but neither is a superstar (Booker is borderline All-NBA and Fox is borderline All-Star) and both will be pushing 30 at that point.




This "ready to win" nonsense needs to be taken behind the barn. This is an atypical situation. They don't have some run of the mill centerpiece to build around, they have an all time one and history shows those players become elite and drag their teams to at least being goodish sooner than later.

They don't need to see it and then react. If what they want is available now (speaking generally), they shouldn't hesitate to pull the trigger.

They have so much draft capital, it'd be virtually impossible to blow their entire load anyway.

Guys are worth it or they aren’t. Lauri is not worth it imo

[TD 21]

Guys are worth it or they aren’t. Lauri is not worth it imo

I agree, but the problem with you and others is delusions of grandeur.

[slick'81]

Spurs are not throwing utah an offer they cant reufse

[poopbox]

I’m good with that cost later especially if it’s someone better than Lauri; someone that can self create more alongside defend at a high level.

I have no issue with going all in. I have an issue with doing it for Lauri

Then who are you going all in for...and how are you getting them on the team?

Like your not going all in for Jokic, Embiid, Shai, Luka, Chet. Those are franchise players who will have to want to leave first. If they never want to leave those teams hang up the phone as soon as you say their name.

Your not even going to be able to get guys like Bridges, OG, Siakam, Haliburton, Brunson. Those guys have re upped either last year, this year, or will next year with their teams. Again, you have 0 chance to get these players unless they specifically ask out.

And all the players I just mentioned, they all have 2 things in common as of right now. 1, all of their teams are better than the spurs teams, and 2, all of their teams have or will have their bird rights so they can offer more years and thus more money than the spurs can.

So who is this mythical nba player you want to pair with Wemby who is a star, who plays on a better team than the spurs, and who will be willing to leave that team and make less money over less years with san antonio? Or if not that, who is the star who is going to just ride out his entire contract, become an unrestricted free agent, and then sign with San Antonio?

Passing on Trae...passing on Lauri...that's how you end up getting sodomized by the Bulls when you have to trade for Lavine in two years cause Victor is telling you to get somebody in here now and literally the only "star" you can trade for is Zach Lavine.

[DPG21920]

Some cold water for fans to consider. I know everyone is excited at thought of landing Lauri or any “star”. But to those of you calling for Spurs to offer up the house for Lauri?

Its insane. I’ll just say it and explain why I think that. Have any of you actually looked at his game and compared it to the other top 5-10 all star forwards you keep comparing him to? Have you looked at his % off assisted buckets compared to them? His ft rate compared to other offensive hubs? His areas he scores and how? His defense compared to the other top 5-10? His ability to create for others?


Lauri is good but not THAT good especially factoring in usage and role on Spurs on offense (he’s not some great defender so we focus on his strengths). People are wayyyyy too turned on by the thought of just adding “someone”

He doesn’t self create much. He’s not a great defender. Hes a guy that needs to be setup to hit 3s via off ball movement to have max value and with Wemby and Dev here he will be a third option (due to Wemby and Dev still being the CLEAR self creators and usage guys due to skillset) so what will that value be to spurs with his lack of self creation, defense issues and not being elite at getting to FT line at high rate via self creation (he’s ok there but not elite for an offensive hub)

I like Lauri and he would be a very good fit but paying that price for a revved up Doug McDermott or “Richard Jefferson” type is just bad business IMVHO. You cannot cough up a young player(s) + 5 firsts etc for a player like that. It’s just not smart IMVHO.

(*RJ meaning his role on the spurs when he was traded here and how that worked out - they aren’t similar players)

[DPG21920]

Then who are you going all in for...and how are you getting them on the team?

Like your not going all in for Jokic, Embiid, Shai, Luka, Chet. Those are franchise players who will have to want to leave first. If they never want to leave those teams hang up the phone as soon as you say their name.

Your not even going to be able to get guys like Bridges, OG, Siakam, Haliburton, Brunson. Those guys have re upped either last year, this year, or will next year with their teams. Again, you have 0 chance to get these players unless they specifically ask out.

And all the players I just mentioned, they all have 2 things in common as of right now. 1, all of their teams are better than the spurs teams, and 2, all of their teams have or will have their bird rights so they can offer more years and thus more money than the spurs can.

So who is this mythical nba player you want to pair with Wemby who is a star, who plays on a better team than the spurs, and who will be willing to leave that team and make less money over less years with san antonio? Or if not that, who is the star who is going to just ride out his entire contract, become an unrestricted free agent, and then sign with San Antonio?

Passing on Trae...passing on Lauri...that's how you end up getting sodomized by the Bulls when you have to trade for Lavine in two years cause Victor is telling you to get somebody in here now and literally the only "star" you can trade for is Zach Lavine.

That’s not how this works. Spurs don’t need to go all in now. They aren’t facing a “who if not Lauri” situation

[DPG21920]

I agree, but the problem with you and others is delusions of grandeur.

K

[Gandalf]

2025 is a big free agency year where we can sign someone without losing all our future picks—which we’ll need to keep winning once players get too expensive under the new system, etc.

Lauri should be relatively cheap, because he’s not re-signing with the Jazz, and the Jazz need him gone so they have a much better shot at a franchise player in the 2025 draft. If Ainge is trying to screw us with ridiculous demands in those circumstances, he can screw himself. We’ll just sign Lauri (or another good player) in 2025, keep all our picks, and the Jazz can remain mired in mediocrity for an extra four to five years. Bravo Ainge, well done.

[Mr. Body]

That’s not how this works. Spurs don’t need to go all in now. They aren’t facing a “who if not Lauri” situation

I don't understand the thought processes.

"Oh YEAH? If we don't go all in on Lauri Markkanen now, who DO we go all in on???"

Not sure how that makes sense. Like if you've decided not to break the bank on one player then you're supposed to break the bank immediately on some other player. That you have to decide right now. Or that you're supposed to break the bank on some player at all.

[LeBowen]

2025 is a big free agency year

Butler, FVV, Ben Simmons, Ingram, Middleton, Randle, John Collins, Brook Lopez, Aaron Gordon, Myles Turner, D'Lo is your big free agency year.

Naz Reid being the only UFA worth going for if Minnesota doesn't offer him a new deal.

[Ice009]

Do not bail Ainge out. If he accepts a fair offer, maybe, but if not, he can keep Lauri. The Spurs can just look at options in 2025.

[Mr. Body]

2025 is a big free agency year where we can sign someone without losing all our future picks—which we’ll need to keep winning once players get too expensive under the new system, etc.

Lauri should be relatively cheap, because he’s not re-signing with the Jazz, and the Jazz need him gone so they have a much better shot at a franchise player in the 2025 draft. If Ainge is trying to screw us with ridiculous demands in those circumstances, he can screw himself. We’ll just sign Lauri (or another good player) in 2025, keep all our picks, and the Jazz can remain mired in mediocrity for an extra four to five years. Bravo Ainge, well done.

Yeah, really think Ainge is boxing himself into a corner. He might have really thought there was a big market for Lauri, like OKC was going to pony up immediately and he could win the pick battle. Instead he may have three teams involved. Maybe.

I guess we'll see if he backs off wanting Kuminga or Keegan Murray. IMO those are no-goes for those teams. He may have to realize what he's getting. May have to extend Markkanen and hope for more when people might have moved on and it gets more expensive in term of contracts to trade for him. Meanwhile he's trying to tank, so doesn't want to do this.

[rankingtear]

Mark isn't eligible for his renegotiation until his third anniversary. Because 2021 had a late start, there has been talk that the NBA adjusted the anniversary of his signing to reflect 08/06, or the start of the 2021-2022 league year. That idea is not sound on its face. Anniversaries are adjusted for contracts signed between October 2 and the beginning of the league year to reflect 10/01 in order to allow rookie extensions to be eligible for additional extensions, renegotiations, etc. We learned this during the Murray situation a few years ago. But the CBA didn't have any carve-out for 2021 in it, which I imagine would've been helpful to get in writing. It's possible the league put out a memo, but from what I can see, the belief that the adjustment happened seems to be due to a tweet chain by some Utah media members

1805301911400464727

Like why they would believe this, I don't know, and as far as I can tell everyone else is referencing this conversation. What I don't know is if this got confirmed later on, because there are RGMers who act as if that did happen.

As far as why Smith has the 07/06 date, maybe you're correct about it simply referring to when he can sign an extension at all. I find it troubling that he doesn't have a separate date for renegotiation. Whether that's because he assumes it's the same date, doesn't know the answer or just doesn't care to track renegotiation deadlines due to how rare they matter, I don't know.

There was it said adjusted to the stage of the offseason so if Lauri signed at mid point of 21 offseason his anniversary is mid point of 24 offseason.

[RC_Drunkford]

Apparently the Jazz actually wanted to trade for Mikal Bridges and improve the team in the offseason

1808675166068830424

[RC_Drunkford]

Spurs apparently in a better position than the Kings

1808651617316786251

[Chinook]

There was it said adjusted to the stage of the offseason so if Lauri signed at mid point of 21 offseason his anniversary is mid point of 24 offseason.

I'm not even sure what this means? Why is 08/06 the same point of this summer as 08/28 was of the summer of 2021? Again, I haven't seen anything from the league that said they did this (and they would have to say it, because the CBA doesn't have at automatic adjustment built in), and the RGM cap guy said he hadn't seen it either. As you know, there are things I don't know, and you've helped me out before. Do you have anything to back this up?

[Knoxxx]

you've literally just convinced me that we need to tank this year. If the only personal available in the next 3 years would be an overpay, then we just need to tank for Ace Bailey and sign Lauri as a free agent next summer.



Not all FRPs are equal. If we are giving 4 FRPs for Lauri, they can't be the expected lottery picks. Especially if you don't have confidence in Wright's drafting record; Wright did good drafting Wemby, but that was because it was a no-brainer. 2025 draft will have some no-brainers if we are drafting high enough.

I definitely want Lauri, but I would still limit myself to our own natural picks in non-swap years ('27, '29, '31) as well as CHA and CHI.

I noticed we have the same thought. Basically what I’d like to do keep our best FRP per year, through 31, and avoid having no FRPs in a given year with the exception of 1 year at most. I think the math works and that still leaves UTA with some good picks, We may also be a Wemby injury away from any of our 27-31 natural picks being gold, heaven forbid but we do lose that insurance.

[Knoxxx]

The issue here is when the Jazz stop trying to play one offer against the other.

[RC_Drunkford]

1808596165816111597

[LeBowen]

Spurs apparently in a better position than the Kings

I'll say it again, I don't understand why would Kings want Markkanen?
Their biggest issue is that they need to somehow build a good defense around Sabonis, like Nuggets did around Jokic.
He's a non-factor defensively and having Markkanen next to him would make things even worse.

If Kings aren't willing to give up Keegan Murray, what's even their offer? The best they can do is '27, '29, '31 FRPs, they traded away their '25.

[mo7888]

Boiled down: I think this package if held onto either to draft or trade later has a 70% chance at yielding a better player than Lauri in addition to the ramifications of that (ie not paying that player 40m+ immediately) set the team up much better

Keldon
25 Chicago
25 Charlotte
26 Spurs with Atlanta swap
28 Spurs with Boston swap
30 Spurs with Minnesota and Dallas swap
31 Minnesota

I agree, but who is that player? We aren't under the gun to get 'that' guy right now, but we better have a target in our sights, even if it's at the deadline or next summer.

That package is just to much and I really love Lauri here. One group is determined to burn our capital in an overpay and the other just thinks he's trash... we need a little balance in our perspective here..

[DPG21920]

He’s not trash, but you have to factor in everything but especially his role and how he plays if he were in SA.

[mo7888]

He’s not trash, but you have to factor in everything but especially his role and how he plays if he were in SA.

Yup...and I think his fit is very good...not quite great as that package would require, but very good...

[R. DeMurre]

But of course, what was anyone thinking? Ainge has done it a million times, you'd think people would have learned by now, but reading these forums it's clear they haven't. Ainge needs to trade Lauri before the season starts because he's finally accepted anything other than a hard tank won't get him the franchise player he needs. He failed to accept reality in Wemby's draft, and that was a huge fuck up, he won't repeat the same in '25. He's teasing teams right and left, trying to create a bidding war which only he can win. Spurs should put up a good offer, draw the line and be willing to walk away if the price goes up beyond reason. The world doesn't start or end with Markkanen.


I don't think Ainge misplanned the Wemby draft. Most sportswriters & analysts had Utah as one of the worst teams that year and frontrunners for Wemby. The problem was Markkanen played much better than expected and the team had more cohesion than anticipated, and finished with 37 wins, despite blatant tanking moves for good chunks of the season. The Jazz were expected to have a win total in the range of the Pistons, Rockets, and Spurs (17, 22, 22), and probably would've had 45 if they'd actually been trying. That's one of the reasons why I think Markkanen is a good target.

[poopbox]

That’s not how this works. Spurs don’t need to go all in now. They aren’t facing a “who if not Lauri” situation

It's literally exactly how it works. All of the value of these future picks they have are that the teams they got them from might be bad. But if the teams are not bad, then the picks are not high, and then they don't have very much value.

If the Jazz want the Hawks 25 pick, they want it because they feel like the Hawks might be bad this upcoming season and they can get a high draft pick out of it. But what happens if the Hawks are just the 6th seed? That pick won't even be a lottery pick. You think the Jazz are going to want that pick then? Highly unlikely.

You keep mentioning "all in". There is no such thing as "all in". "All in" insinuates that there is some optimal future opportunity that will present itself to the Spurs and it will be clear that in that moment they need to push their chips in. There is no guarantee that will happen. The only real guarantee is that all these first round picks over time will reveal themselves to be useful or not.

Remember back when the Pelicans traded Anthony Davis and got this huge collection of young players and picks? 5 years later Lonzo hasn't played in 2 years, Hart is on the Knicks, the one guy they did keep, Ingram, never helped them win even a playoff series and they now don't want to pay him on another contract, and all of those Lakers picks turned into what exactly? A bunch of nobodies and one top 10 pick, Dyson Daniels who they just traded.

The Lakers got a player who helped them win a title and go to a conference finals, and the pelicans got a bunch of players who never helped them win even 1 playoff series in 5 years, a player they currently don't want to pay, and one top 10 draft pick they they used to trade for Dejounte Murray. I am very positive they envisioned it going a different way than that.

If you look at the history of player vs lots of young players and picks traded for player...the team trading for the player usually comes out ahead in the short and long term.

[OldMan88]

Don’t forget impact of state income tax. Utah is about 5%. California is north of 15%. Texas is 0%.

[scott]

Love people getting fixated on this hypothetical 6 FRP + Keldon offer. That is nothing more than what one poster, who I can’t even remember, said they would pay. The Spurs will obviously have a line they’re willing to go up to. Knowing their cheap asses, it’s probably embarrassingly, unrealistically low.

Ainge is very obviously leaking all this info to work in his favor. I don’t doubt 20 teams have inquired and that the Spurs, Kings and Warriors have all made substantial offers. Lauri is really good, and most teams would want him. The Doug McDermott comparisons are just deal fatigue talking. Ainge knows that Lauri is really good and knows that by leaking this information he might be able to squeeze a few more drops out of this lemon. Remember guys, Danny Ainge is actually good at this. Not like the Spurs who don’t know how to leverage the media to their advantage.

My offer, which means absolutely nothing because Brian Wright is not calling for my opinion, remains:

Zach Collins
SA26 (with swaps attached)
SA28 (with swaps attached)
SA30 (with swaps attached)
MIN31

If Utah wants Keldon instead of Collins, that’s fine - but SA26 becomes a swap (Best of SA/ATL/UTA/CLE/MIN to Utah, second best to SA).

I use those picks because I think that is what best fits Utah’s existing war chest. If they said they wanted SA27 instead of SA26, that’s also fine. But it’s 2 picks in addition to SA30 and MIN31.

If Sochan is what makes or breaks the deal, they can have him. I’m not letting Clank Sochan stop me from this deal. The fact that Sochan would be the deal breaker for some people is the most hilarious part of this to me. It would be like if we didn’t accept a massive haul for Dejounte because Atlanta refused to throw in Kevin Knox or some shit.

[Ariel]

I don't think Ainge misplanned the Wemby draft. Most sportswriters & analysts had Utah as one of the worst teams that year and frontrunners for Wemby. The problem was Markkanen played much better than expected and the team had more cohesion than anticipated, and finished with 37 wins, despite blatant tanking moves for good chunks of the season. The Jazz were expected to have a win total in the range of the Pistons, Rockets, and Spurs (17, 22, 22), and probably would've had 45 if they'd actually been trying. That's one of the reasons why I think Markkanen is a good target.
Markkanen is a good target for sure, nobody disputes that. The only question is how far should Spurs go to pursue him, some say as far as it takes, I'm not in that "Lauri at all costs" camp. Where Ainge miscalculated wasn't in keeping Lauri but rather delaying the trade of the vets around him, like Conley, Beasley, Vanderbilt, also should have moved Jordan Clarkson, and played the games all other bottom teams engaged in that year. The premium by waiting wasn't worth anywhere near the chances lost in a top heavy draft that had them falling to 9 and picking Taylor Hendricks rather than Wemby or Brandon Miller, for instance. There were no guarantees but that was a year to take the chance, like the next one is apparently. I think Ainge learned his lesson.

[Chinook]

I really hate the idea from fans thinking the Spurs should not care about the draft because "What good would a guy who's not going to be good for four years do for a Wemby who's ready to compete now?" It's like, dude, Wemby will also be ready to compete in four years, and it would be really nice to have guys on cheaper deals who are ready to compete alongside him. Imagine how dead in the water Philly would be if they didn't have Maxey? Embiid would've been trade to another team. You always keep drafting and you leave space in a rotation for guys to rise through the ranks.

I definitely have my issues with how the Spurs have approached the draft. They need to be much more aggressive in moving on from guys if they're going to use their war chest to continuously bring talent on the roster. They can't piss away high draft picks, and they can't get caught in a position where they're forced to trade picks because they held onto too many in one season. However, the opportunity for a team to continuous be able to pursue top prospects for six of the next seven years regardless of how well they do is good. What is requires is that they show show a clarity of purpose in how they're going to start that tap to flow. That indeed entails good moves for players who are ready to help now without hampering their ability to continuously bring in talent. That's the situation OKC is currently facing, and they're in the process of configuring their war chest to reflect that.

The Spurs are not quite in OKC's position, but if their goal is to get there, splurging at this point runs counter to that. Regardless, they should definitely be looking to see what they can get for CHA25, CHI25, seconds, cap space a maybe one of their decent rotation players. I believe that package could get more than folks think, even in this market. They should be able to get a legit starting forward, even if they have to wait into the season for teams to realize they want to tank.

[rankingtear]

I'm not even sure what this means? Why is 08/06 the same point of this summer as 08/28 was of the summer of 2021? Again, I haven't seen anything from the league that said they did this (and they would have to say it, because the CBA doesn't have at automatic adjustment built in), and the RGM cap guy said he hadn't seen it either. As you know, there are things I don't know, and you've helped me out before. Do you have anything to back this up?

21-22 offseason is 74 days, Lauri signed on the 21st day of that offseason (8/28) equal to 28.% mark of the offseason. 24-25 offseason is 110 days, the 28% mark of that offseason is the 32nd day which is 8/06. 21-22 offseason started in 8/6 , 24-25 stared in 7/6. Dates don't matter at what point in the offseason Lauri signed the contract. If he signed at the start of 21 offseason his anniversary is on the start of the 24 offseason which are different dates.

[scott]

Great example of overvaluing of draft picks in the Pelicans example poopbox mentioned above.

Also, wanted to address the criticism that Lauri isn’t enough of a self-creator… but why would we want that? The fact that he does what he does, with the efficiency that he does it, is what makes him a good fit. A self creator doesn’t fit as well with Wemby as Devin - Lauri’s game is as close to a perfect match as it gets.

[RC_Drunkford]

I'll say it again, I don't understand why would Kings want Markkanen?
Their biggest issue is that they need to somehow build a good defense around Sabonis, like Nuggets did around Jokic.
He's a non-factor defensively and having Markkanen next to him would make things even worse.

If Kings aren't willing to give up Keegan Murray, what's even their offer? The best they can do is '27, '29, '31 FRPs, they traded away their '25.

I don't even understand why they wanted Sabonis. They are just a stupid franchise.

[BatManu20]

He’s not trash, but you have to factor in everything but especially his role and how he plays if he were in SA.

Surprised more people haven’t mentioned his injury concerns either tbh. Lauri’s only played 60+ games 3 times in his 7 seasons, and he’s never played 70 games in a single season.

[mo7888]

Great example of overvaluing of draft picks in the Pelicans example poopbox mentioned above.

Also, wanted to address the criticism that Lauri isn’t enough of a self-creator… but why would we want that? The fact that he does what he does, with the efficiency that he does it, is what makes him a good fit. A self creator doesn’t fit as well with Wemby as Devin - Lauri’s game is as close to a perfect match as it gets.

For us, a self creator type needs to be a bench guy that can log minutes with the 1st team as needed... I'm not saying being a self creator is a bad thing, it's just not the main thing we need in the 1st unit.

[LeBowen]

Great example of overvaluing of draft picks in the Pelicans example poopbox (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=51600) mentioned above.

Also, wanted to address the criticism that Lauri isn’t enough of a self-creator… but why would we want that? The fact that he does what he does, with the efficiency that he does it, is what makes him a good fit. A self creator doesn’t fit as well with Wemby as Devin - Lauri’s game is as close to a perfect match as it gets.

CP3/Devin/Castle/Lauri/Wemby lineup has four players who can create and playmake, four good shooters, four positive defenders.
If Castle is as good as advertised and CP3 isn't completely washed, we're right in that top6 seed race with second tier playoff teams.
Then if we're actually doing well, we can get another 3-D wing at the deadline.

Do people not see how fucking good Wemby is? If Spurs get over .500 this season, I'd be willing to bet anything he finishes top5 in MVP race.

[Ariel]

Zach Collins
SA26 (with swaps attached)
SA28 (with swaps attached)
SA30 (with swaps attached)
MIN31

This framework is costly but not unreasonable. The only thing I'd try is to avoid moving the Spurs own '26 pick with swap rights attached, it's another class that comes with a lot of hype and Atlanta is hanging by a thread. You can instead offer Spurs own 29' unprotected pick instead, Chicago '25, or Sochan, or swap Collins for Keldon. That package would include 2 high upside picks (that Dallas '30 swap looks juicy, Luka might be Jabba the Hutt or in another team by then; Minnesota could also come crashing if Anthony Edwards leaves or is traded) plus the rest of the assets. I seriously doubt Utah gets a better package than that, and is as far as I'd go (and not my first offer for sure). And if they do, well, good for them.

[scott]

This framework is costly but not unreasonable. The only thing I'd try is to avoid moving the Spurs own '26 pick with swap rights attached, it's another class that comes with a lot of hype and Atlanta is hanging by a thread. You can instead offer Spurs own 29' unprotected pick instead, Chicago '25, or Sochan, or swap Collins for Keldon. That package would include 2 high upside picks (that Dallas '30 swap looks juicy, Luka might be Jabba the Hutt or in another team by then; Minnesota could also come crashing if Anthony Edwards leaves or is traded) plus the rest of the assets. I seriously doubt Utah gets a better package than that, and is as far as I'd go (and not my first offer for sure). And if they do, well, good for them.

Yeah, I’m flexible on what the picks are, outside of SA30 and MIN31, which I presume are musts in the deal, because of the unique value proposition to Utah and Utah only. After that, Ainge can have his pick of our other picks other than the 2025 picks (unless he wants to take the worst of SA/ATL, which I doubt).

I include SA26 and SA28 in my proposal because those picks uniquely fit the picks that Utah already has. They have gaps in the even years and are flush with picks in the odd years. Maybe Ainge actually prefers that so he can own a large share of certain drafts (the odd years). It doesn’t matter to me. But my top offer is SA30 + MIN31 (again, because they are uniquely valuable to Ainge) plus two other unprotected FRPs - BUT you have to take Collins. If you don’t want Collins, then it’s 3 FRPs and 1 Swap.

As badly as I want Lauri, I’d be happy just knowing that was our offer. If someone else blew their load to beat it, then so be it, we can only control our side of the deal.

Edit: One other clarification, in my "line" - 2025 picks are off the table unless it's for Worst of SA/ATL, but I actually really want both 25 picks. I'm gearing up for my next 5 year coreCore to be Wemby + Lauri + Devin + Castle + SA25 + ATL25.

[scott]

CP3/Devin/Castle/Lauri/Wemby lineup has four players who can create and playmake, four good shooters, four positive defenders.
If Castle is as good as advertised and CP3 isn't completely washed, we're right in that top6 seed race with second tier playoff teams.
Then if we're actually doing well, we can get another 3-D wing at the deadline.

Do people not see how fucking good Wemby is? If Spurs get over .500 this season, I'd be willing to bet anything he finishes top5 in MVP race.

Yeah, that exact starting lineup is the one in my head that I want to end up with - for exactly the reasons you outline. If we could also somehow upgrade Collins to Lopez as our backup C, and get some cheap SG depth somewhere (I’ve thrown out Lonnie to compete with Branham in microwave scorer type, but I understand Lonnie’s limitations) - then I’m pretty pleased with the second unit, which would be Tre/Bran or Lonnie/Champ/Sochan/Lopez. The Tre + Sochan combo provides a little bit of a shooting challenge, but everyone else there can shoot (theoretically anyway).

[Chinook]

21-22 offseason is 74 days, Lauri signed on the 21st day of that offseason (8/28) equal to 28.% mark of the offseason. 24-25 offseason is 110 days, the 28% mark of that offseason is the 32nd day which is 8/06.

While I legit do appreciate the arithmetic, that's not really what I'm asking. I haven't seen a reason to believe the NBA did what you're saying.

Also, 08/28 is the 25th day (or 26th since 08/03 should count). And yes, 08/03, not 08/06. The end of the moratorium isn't the start of the year. But even if it were 08/06, it'd still be the 22nd (or 23rd) day. 08/06/2024 is the 36th (or 37th) day of the year because the league year started on 07/01. Using the send of the moratorium would put the 32nd day on 08/07 (or 08/06), that's true, but the proportional date should be the 37th or 39th days if using the actual league year or 33rd or 34th days if using the end of the moratorium. The NBA could round however it wants, of course, and maybe they used the moratorium dates for some reason. But I think the 08/06 date didn't come from an actual calculation of ratios as much as it did from a brute adjustment like what they do in October.

[scott]

While I legit do appreciate the arithmetic, that's not really what I'm asking. I haven't seen a reason to believe the NBA did what you're saying.

Also, 08/28 is the 25th day (or 26th since 08/03 should count). And yes, 08/03, not 08/06. The end of the moratorium isn't the start of the year. But even if it were 08/06, it'd still be the 22nd (or 23rd) day. 08/06/2024 is the 36th (or 37th) day of the year because the league year started on 07/01. Using the send of the moratorium would put the 32nd day on 08/07 (or 08/06), that's true, but the proportional date should be the 37th or 39th days if using the actual league year or 33rd or 34th days if using the end of the moratorium. The NBA could round however it wants, of course, and maybe they used the moratorium dates for some reason. But I think the 08/06 date didn't come from an actual calculation of ratios as much as it did from a brute adjustment like what they do in October.

It seems pretty NBA-like for there to be this completely arbitrary and under-communicated rule that has a massive impact on a critical function of the offseason :lol Did the NBA Officials Union come with it? :lol

[baseline bum]

Love people getting fixated on this hypothetical 6 FRP + Keldon offer. That is nothing more than what one poster, who I can’t even remember, said they would pay. The Spurs will obviously have a line they’re willing to go up to. Knowing their cheap asses, it’s probably embarrassingly, unrealistically low.

Ainge is very obviously leaking all this info to work in his favor. I don’t doubt 20 teams have inquired and that the Spurs, Kings and Warriors have all made substantial offers. Lauri is really good, and most teams would want him. The Doug McDermott comparisons are just deal fatigue talking. Ainge knows that Lauri is really good and knows that by leaking this information he might be able to squeeze a few more drops out of this lemon. Remember guys, Danny Ainge is actually good at this. Not like the Spurs who don’t know how to leverage the media to their advantage.

My offer, which means absolutely nothing because Brian Wright is not calling for my opinion, remains:

Zach Collins
SA26 (with swaps attached)
SA28 (with swaps attached)
SA30 (with swaps attached)
MIN31

If Utah wants Keldon instead of Collins, that’s fine - but SA26 becomes a swap (Best of SA/ATL/UTA/CLE/MIN to Utah, second best to SA).

I use those picks because I think that is what best fits Utah’s existing war chest. If they said they wanted SA27 instead of SA26, that’s also fine. But it’s 2 picks in addition to SA30 and MIN31.

If Sochan is what makes or breaks the deal, they can have him. I’m not letting Clank Sochan stop me from this deal. The fact that Sochan would be the deal breaker for some people is the most hilarious part of this to me. It would be like if we didn’t accept a massive haul for Dejounte because Atlanta refused to throw in Kevin Knox or some shit.

Graham and Branham could probably work salary wise too. Still think you're going to have to give the ATL 27 instead of the SAS 28 though.

[Kevin]

Glad to see people are getting more and more realistic about the price. I am up to the 26ATL pick the 30 swaps and the 31 Minny pick.

Also love that Lauri shouldn’t be acquired because he’s not good enough on ball. Trae Young wasn’t good enough off ball either. It’s always something with the asset hoarding crowd yet they’ll defend Dev’s game to the death even tho he’s mostly just a good shooter more than anything else.

[baseline bum]

2025 is a big free agency year where we can sign someone without losing all our future picks—which we’ll need to keep winning once players get too expensive under the new system, etc.

Lauri should be relatively cheap, because he’s not re-signing with the Jazz, and the Jazz need him gone so they have a much better shot at a franchise player in the 2025 draft. If Ainge is trying to screw us with ridiculous demands in those circumstances, he can screw himself. We’ll just sign Lauri (or another good player) in 2025, keep all our picks, and the Jazz can remain mired in mediocrity for an extra four to five years. Bravo Ainge, well done.

Or Utah trades Lauri somewhere else and Markannen re-signs there to get his fifth year. The 2025 free agent class isn't good outside of Markannen and Jamal Murray. Your second tier is Ingram and Randle and after that it's old guys and young restricted free agents.

[DPG21920]

It's literally exactly how it works. All of the value of these future picks they have are that the teams they got them from might be bad. But if the teams are not bad, then the picks are not high, and then they don't have very much value.

If the Jazz want the Hawks 25 pick, they want it because they feel like the Hawks might be bad this upcoming season and they can get a high draft pick out of it. But what happens if the Hawks are just the 6th seed? That pick won't even be a lottery pick. You think the Jazz are going to want that pick then? Highly unlikely.

You keep mentioning "all in". There is no such thing as "all in". "All in" insinuates that there is some optimal future opportunity that will present itself to the Spurs and it will be clear that in that moment they need to push their chips in. There is no guarantee that will happen. The only real guarantee is that all these first round picks over time will reveal themselves to be useful or not.

Remember back when the Pelicans traded Anthony Davis and got this huge collection of young players and picks? 5 years later Lonzo hasn't played in 2 years, Hart is on the Knicks, the one guy they did keep, Ingram, never helped them win even a playoff series and they now don't want to pay him on another contract, and all of those Lakers picks turned into what exactly? A bunch of nobodies and one top 10 pick, Dyson Daniels who they just traded.

The Lakers got a player who helped them win a title and go to a conference finals, and the pelicans got a bunch of players who never helped them win even 1 playoff series in 5 years, a player they currently don't want to pay, and one top 10 draft pick they they used to trade for Dejounte Murray. I am very positive they envisioned it going a different way than that.

If you look at the history of player vs lots of young players and picks traded for player...the team trading for the player usually comes out ahead in the short and long term.

Negative. Plenty of examples of teams trading picks and getting reamed.

[DPG21920]

Love people getting fixated on this hypothetical 6 FRP + Keldon offer. That is nothing more than what one poster, who I can’t even remember, said they would pay. The Spurs will obviously have a line they’re willing to go up to. Knowing their cheap asses, it’s probably embarrassingly, unrealistically low.

Ainge is very obviously leaking all this info to work in his favor. I don’t doubt 20 teams have inquired and that the Spurs, Kings and Warriors have all made substantial offers. Lauri is really good, and most teams would want him. The Doug McDermott comparisons are just deal fatigue talking. Ainge knows that Lauri is really good and knows that by leaking this information he might be able to squeeze a few more drops out of this lemon. Remember guys, Danny Ainge is actually good at this. Not like the Spurs who don’t know how to leverage the media to their advantage.

My offer, which means absolutely nothing because Brian Wright is not calling for my opinion, remains:

Zach Collins
SA26 (with swaps attached)
SA28 (with swaps attached)
SA30 (with swaps attached)
MIN31

If Utah wants Keldon instead of Collins, that’s fine - but SA26 becomes a swap (Best of SA/ATL/UTA/CLE/MIN to Utah, second best to SA).

I use those picks because I think that is what best fits Utah’s existing war chest. If they said they wanted SA27 instead of SA26, that’s also fine. But it’s 2 picks in addition to SA30 and MIN31.

If Sochan is what makes or breaks the deal, they can have him. I’m not letting Clank Sochan stop me from this deal. The fact that Sochan would be the deal breaker for some people is the most hilarious part of this to me. It would be like if we didn’t accept a massive haul for Dejounte because Atlanta refused to throw in Kevin Knox or some shit.

The Doug McDermott comparisons are with regards to how he scores compared to other all star that are being discussed in terms of the cost to get Lauri vs them.

[DPG21920]

Great example of overvaluing of draft picks in the Pelicans example poopbox mentioned above.

Also, wanted to address the criticism that Lauri isn’t enough of a self-creator… but why would we want that? The fact that he does what he does, with the efficiency that he does it, is what makes him a good fit. A self creator doesn’t fit as well with Wemby as Devin - Lauri’s game is as close to a perfect match as it gets.

Thats just wrong IMO and beside the point of why SA would want/need that, it comes down to skillset and cost. There are plenty of guys who for much cheaper can provide that type of spacing and skillet and not cost you 4 first round picks and Keldon or Sochan.

[LeBowen]

Thats just wrong IMO and beside the point of why SA would want/need that, it comes down to skillset and cost. There are plenty of guys who for much cheaper can provide that type of spacing and skillet and not cost you 4 first round picks and Keldon or Sochan.

Why can't you end this discussion, then?
Please name any realistic wing targets.
Please do.

Don't you see that a handful of us is actually trying to argument our takes, I posted the wing situation breakdown for the entire league and then someone like yourself is like nahhh, there's plenty of targets without ever providing a single actually realistic target. Yeah, I'd also want Ant, Brown or Tatum, but it's not going to happen.

[vy65]

Hield to GSW in a sign and trade. That should put them right up against the first apron.

[kobyz]

If Spurs has indication that Lauri prefer to come here to play longside Wemby for years to come, spurs should not offer more than two non lottery picks

[Dejounte]

Why can't you end this discussion, then?
Please name any realistic wing targets.
Please do.

Don't you see that a handful of us is actually trying to argument our takes, I posted the wing situation breakdown for the entire league and then someone like yourself is like nahhh, there's plenty of targets without ever providing a single actually realistic target. Yeah, I'd also want Ant, Brown or Tatum, but it's not going to happen.

Yeah, seriously. You can not like a guy for a team, but you can’t make shit up about how there will be many better options in the future. That’s where these guys get stuck and have nobody to name. There’s actual historical reference on what type of players are attainable… and very few of them are guys that people actually want. But no… let’s spout nonsense about how Lauri isn’t good enough and keep sitting on our pile of goods for what? Nothing.

No concrete plan. Just keep wishing for the best and that’s it.

[Mr. Body]

Some people here have massive issues with impulse control.

[scott]

Thats just wrong IMO and beside the point of why SA would want/need that, it comes down to skillset and cost. There are plenty of guys who for much cheaper can provide that type of spacing and skillet and not cost you 4 first round picks and Keldon or Sochan.

You say this, and then you follow up with names like Cam Johnson. Cam Johnson may offer a vaguely similar spacing and skillset, the same way Keldon Johsnon offers vaguely similar spacing and skillset to Jaylen Brown.

But, I think we're all willing to hear this list of names, since there are plenty of them. I'm not aware of a lot of 7'0" 50/40/90 guys (on a high volume of 3P shots) in this league.

[scott]

Hield to GSW in a sign and trade. That should put them right up against the first apron.

From what I've read from the cap experts, still doesn't take GSW out of the Lauri sweepstakes because they have plenty of matching salary they can send out.

[scott]

Some people here have massive issues with impulse control.

Tell us about why you still visit and post to this website.

Unable to control the impulse?

[DPG21920]

Why can't you end this discussion, then?
Please name any realistic wing targets.
Please do.

Don't you see that a handful of us is actually trying to argument our takes, I posted the wing situation breakdown for the entire league and then someone like yourself is like nahhh, there's plenty of targets without ever providing a single actually realistic target. Yeah, I'd also want Ant, Brown or Tatum, but it's not going to happen.

Lmao I did exactly what was asked of me. I was told it’s completely hypothetical so I gave my hypothetical targets. Why are you mad I did exactly what was asked of me?

Cam Johnson completely realistic target. Jerami Grant. Simone Fontecchio. Several examples.

[Dejounte]

Tell us about why you still visit and post to this website.

Unable to control the impulse?

Guy with the most mental problems has the audacity to say that other people have mental problems.

Here’s a reality check… when everybody else is wrong all the time, maybe you’re the wrong one? Guy probably never did any self-reflection in his life.

[DPG21920]

Yeah, seriously. You can not like a guy for a team, but you can’t make shit up about how there will be many better options in the future. That’s where these guys get stuck and have nobody to name. There’s actual historical reference on what type of players are attainable… and very few of them are guys that people actually want. But no… let’s spout nonsense about how Lauri isn’t good enough and keep sitting on our pile of goods for what? Nothing.

No concrete plan. Just keep wishing for the best and that’s it.

Nah. Thats just wrong. You want me to name every single wing and guard in the draft in 25 - 27 because that’s most likely where it comes from? You want me to list the names of the all-star types that are available for trade every 2 years that we’ve seen last 10 years? I mean its kind of obvious that between draft and possible but not exactly know yet all stars theres always opportunities.

I even answered your shitty hypothetical that you asked when I told I didnt think it was a good exercise and you implored me to treat it as a mental exercise and I did it and you are still mad? Make it make sense

[Dejounte]

Lmao I did exactly what was asked of me. I was told it’s completely hypothetical so I gave my hypothetical targets. Why are you mad I did exactly what was asked of me?

Cam Johnson completely realistic target. Jerami Grant. Simone Fontecchio. Several examples.

The next step to that exercise was for you to realize that none of those pie in the sky targets are ever available, but I’m not sure that clicked.

Cam Johnson, Jerami Grant, Fontewhothefuck? These are your needle movers that you want to trade our goods for? Mediocrity, here we come…

[scott]

Lmao I did exactly what was asked of me. I was told it’s completely hypothetical so I gave my hypothetical targets. Why are you mad I did exactly what was asked of me?

Cam Johnson completely realistic target. Jerami Grant. Simone Fontecchio. Several examples.

That's fine, thanks for sharing the list. It shows how you value you Lauri, which is your opinion that you're entitled to. Suffice to say, most people disagree, but that's also okay.

[DPG21920]

You say this, and then you follow up with names like Cam Johnson. Cam Johnson may offer a vaguely similar spacing and skillset, the same way Keldon Johsnon offers vaguely similar spacing and skillset to Jaylen Brown.

But, I think we're all willing to hear this list of names, since there are plenty of them. I'm not aware of a lot of 7'0" 50/40/90 guys (on a high volume of 3P shots) in this league.

You literally just named one! No one is saying that Cam is better than Lauri, but we are comparing skillsets in a role and Lauri as the main man in UTA is not going to have the same role and usage as the third option in SA given hes not a self creator so he cant be top 2 in usage. So in that mold, WITH CONTEXT, taking price into consideration yes, I would rather have a slew of other guys for that whether that comes via draft next year, free agency today or trade right now than getting fleeced for Lauri.

I dont understand what’s so hard other than yall being so damn thirsty for names you’re willing to get pummeled in a deal just for the sake of “doing something big!!!”

[Dejounte]

Nah. Thats just wrong. You want me to name every single wing and guard in the draft in 25 - 27 because that’s most likely where it comes from? You want me to list the names of the all-star types that are available for trade every 2 years that we’ve seen last 10 years? I mean its kind of obvious that between draft and possible but not exactly know yet all stars theres always opportunities.

I even answered your shitty hypothetical that you asked when I told I didnt think it was a good exercise and you implored me to treat it as a mental exercise and I did it and you are still mad? Make it make sense

“Make it make sense” is exactly the phrase I’d expect from someone who doesn’t fucking get it.

[LeBowen]

Lmao I did exactly what was asked of me. I was told it’s completely hypothetical so I gave my hypothetical targets. Why are you mad I did exactly what was asked of me?

Cam Johnson completely realistic target. Jerami Grant. Simone Fontecchio. Several examples.

Cam Johnson is a good player, but with the haul they got for Bridges, Nets won't let him go for cheap.
I expect them to ask for 2 FRPs. Too much for a role player.
But I can get behind that one, reasonable choice.

Jerami Grant is a tank commander. He went from Nuggets to Pistons for more or less the same money because he wanted a bigger role.
One of those main character syndrome players. He's a poor rebounder for his size and not much better defender than Markkanen, while being a tier worse scorer.
Yeah, he wouldn't cost much, but he's got 132/4 left on his deal, already turned 30. That contract has a good chance of becoming a negative asset.

I also want Fontecchio. I think Spurs are in the running if they don't get Markkanen.
I'd try for him even if we get Markkanen.


You literally just named one! No one is saying that Cam is better than Lauri, but we are comparing skillsets in a role and Lauri as the main man in UTA is not going to have the same role and usage as the third option in SA given hes not a self creator so he cant be top 2 in usage. So in that mold, WITH CONTEXT, taking price into consideration yes, I would rather have a slew of other guys for that whether that comes via draft next year, free agency today or trade right now than getting fleeced for Lauri.

I dont understand what’s so hard other than yall being so damn thirsty for names you’re willing to get pummeled in a deal just for the sake of “doing something big!!!”

Why wouldn't he be able to be top2 in usage?
He's a better self-creator than Klay was. Didn't stop Klay from being the second option on a championship roster.

Players that can score on high volume while keeping their efficency and not needing the ball are more valuable as second or third options than ball-pounders.

As I said, if Castle-Devin-Wemby turn out to be Jrue-Middleton-Giannis, Lauri would be a perfect Brook, just a way better shooter.

[scott]

Some Spurs fans just want to win every deal at all costs, because winning individual deals is more important to them than substantially improving the team via the trade market. If you want to take that approach, that's fine - but you've got to nail your drafts and make sure that is where your core comes from, because you usually aren't getting a second or third star by penny pinching your way through trades.

"We're still a lotto team, but at least we won that trade by only giving up a SRP for this rotation level player we have in the starting lineup!"

[DPG21920]

That's fine, thanks for sharing the list. It shows how you value you Lauri, which is your opinion that you're entitled to. Suffice to say, most people disagree, but that's also okay.

I dont think people on ST who say “pay 5 firsts! And Keldon or Sochan” are indicative of how many value Lauri. I think most would agree with my by the %s tbh…I like Lauri, hes worth going for but hes not worth trading 4+ firsts + good young player(s) for in light of his skillset, his role if he were on the spurs alongside the opportunity cost of those picks/players.

I dont think this is controversial either even with some guys valuing him differently.

I love how I get asked to “name names” despite all the pro “give up the farm for Lauri” guys not doing any of the work I asked (i.e. actually doing the work that I have and comparing Lauri to the other 5-10 best guys at SF/PF and their self creation rates, assisted basket %, offensive hub FT rates, defensive impact etc..) vs just loving his name?

On top of ignoring that “name the names” misses the context of most of us thinking that will come via the draft and you just want me to list all the draft prospects in the next 2-3 drafts?

[DPG21920]

The next step to that exercise was for you to realize that none of those pie in the sky targets are ever available, but I’m not sure that clicked.

Cam Johnson, Jerami Grant, Fontewhothefuck? These are your needle movers that you want to trade our goods for? Mediocrity, here we come…

No it did. I literally prefaced my list WITH EXACTLY THAT SENTIMENT TO ILLUSTRATE I FULLY UNDERSTOOD WHAT YOU WERE GETTING AT

[DPG21920]

“Make it make sense” is exactly the phrase I’d expect from someone who doesn’t fucking get it.

Ya. Of all the people here, it’s me that doesn’t get it and you clearly have it all figured out and Spurs should offer up the farm for Lauri and not think twice. It’s clear as day to anyone with a brain you are right!

[DPG21920]

The next step to that exercise was for you to realize that none of those pie in the sky targets are ever available, but I’m not sure that clicked.

Cam Johnson, Jerami Grant, Fontewhothefuck? These are your needle movers that you want to trade our goods for? Mediocrity, here we come…

No. We dont trade Lauri package for them. Thats the point. We trade reasonable deals, get similar archetype that ,moves us forward and keeps us flush with our best assets for an opportunity that makes more sense.

[scott]

You literally just named one! No one is saying that Cam is better than Lauri, but we are comparing skillsets in a role and Lauri as the main man in UTA is not going to have the same role and usage as the third option in SA given hes not a self creator so he cant be top 2 in usage. So in that mold, WITH CONTEXT, taking price into consideration yes, I would rather have a slew of other guys for that whether that comes via draft next year, free agency today or trade right now than getting fleeced for Lauri.

I dont understand what’s so hard other than yall being so damn thirsty for names you’re willing to get pummeled in a deal just for the sake of “doing something big!!!”

It's the opposite side of the coin as how you're so thirsty to get bargains that you can't see the forest from the trees.

Also, Lauri would be our second option, not our third. Devin would be our third option (which is the ideal role for him, anyway).

But, you laid it out for us. You prefer to build the team with a bunch of rotation level players instead of a really good one, because it's cheaper. Thanks.

[DPG21920]

Cam Johnson is a good player, but with the haul they got for Bridges, Nets won't let him go for cheap.
I expect them to ask for 2 FRPs. Too much for a role player.
But I can get behind that one, reasonable choice.

Jerami Grant is a tank commander. He went from Nuggets to Pistons for more or less the same money because he wanted a bigger role.
One of those main character syndrome players. He's a poor rebounder for his size and not much better defender than Markkanen, while being a tier worse scorer.
Yeah, he wouldn't cost much, but he's got 132/4 left on his deal, already turned 30. That contract has a good chance of becoming a negative asset.

I also want Fontecchio. I think Spurs are in the running if they don't get Markkanen.
I'd try for him even if we get Markkanen.



Why wouldn't he be able to be top2 in usage?
He's a better self-creator than Klay was. Didn't stop Klay from being the second option on a championship roster.

Players that can score on high volume while keeping their efficency and not needing the ball are more valuable as second or third options than ball-pounders.

As I said, if Castle-Devin-Wemby turn out to be Jrue-Middleton-Giannis, Lauri would be a perfect Brook, just a way better shooter.

Brook plays defense. Lauri doesnt. The price yall are talking about paying Lauri needs to be wayyyyyyy more than Brook Lopez. Beyond that, it’s the fact that hes not an initiator or self creator like the other true star wings/PF’s that cost what yall are talking about that prevents him from being 2nd in usage.

Vassell is a much better self creator and passer and will have the ball more than Lauri. Lauri relies a lot of being assisted - that caps his usage on a team with 2 guys clearly ahead of him (which UTA didnt have)

[DPG21920]

Cam Johnson is a good player, but with the haul they got for Bridges, Nets won't let him go for cheap.
I expect them to ask for 2 FRPs. Too much for a role player.
But I can get behind that one, reasonable choice.

Jerami Grant is a tank commander. He went from Nuggets to Pistons for more or less the same money because he wanted a bigger role.
One of those main character syndrome players. He's a poor rebounder for his size and not much better defender than Markkanen, while being a tier worse scorer.
Yeah, he wouldn't cost much, but he's got 132/4 left on his deal, already turned 30. That contract has a good chance of becoming a negative asset.

I also want Fontecchio. I think Spurs are in the running if they don't get Markkanen.
I'd try for him even if we get Markkanen.



Why wouldn't he be able to be top2 in usage?
He's a better self-creator than Klay was. Didn't stop Klay from being the second option on a championship roster.

Players that can score on high volume while keeping their efficency and not needing the ball are more valuable as second or third options than ball-pounders.

As I said, if Castle-Devin-Wemby turn out to be Jrue-Middleton-Giannis, Lauri would be a perfect Brook, just a way better shooter.

Klay could handle the ball in a pinch and defend at a high level. Yes, they both are great off ball movement shooters and while Klay was not a high end self creator, I think he was a bit better than Lauri is. Im not saying you cant win with Lauri but Klay was able to be who he is in large part because he didnt command a bunch of assets to obtain.

Thats my issue with Lauri. If it was just paying him a max as a FA? Hell ya. No issues. ITs the cost alongside his issues that make it prohibitive IMO

[scott]

I dont think people on ST who say “pay 5 firsts! And Keldon or Sochan” are indicative of how many value Lauri. I think most would agree with my by the %s tbh…I like Lauri, hes worth going for but hes not worth trading 4+ firsts + good young player(s) for in light of his skillset, his role if he were on the spurs alongside the opportunity cost of those picks/players.

I dont think this is controversial either even with some guys valuing him differently.

I love how I get asked to “name names” despite all the pro “give up the farm for Lauri” guys not doing any of the work I asked (i.e. actually doing the work that I have and comparing Lauri to the other 5-10 best guys at SF/PF and their self creation rates, assisted basket %, offensive hub FT rates, defensive impact etc..) vs just loving his name?

On top of ignoring that “name the names” misses the context of most of us thinking that will come via the draft and you just want me to list all the draft prospects in the next 2-3 drafts?

You yourself have thrown out 3 FRPs + Keldon for Lauri, so it's one extra FRP that is the deal breaker for you? Don't want to lose that chance to get Blake Wesley?

I'm not sure wtf else you're talking about with the rest of your post - because that's not what I said to you. You gave your names. Cam Johnson, Jerami Grant, Simone Fonteccio. Thanks. Your approach to team building is understood now. I don't agree with it, but who cares? That's your approach, my approach is different. Thanks for explaining yours.

[z0sa]

People talk about LM D like it's a vacuum and his team didn't suck last year. He will have WEMBY next to him. Wemby, like Duncan and Robinson before him, changes the floor of every player defensively who plays next to him. He can't carry through mistakes, but Lauri isn't the type of guy who makes a bunch of mistakes/doesn't try on D. He'll successfully funnel to Wemby like everyone else and will at least have a hand up on shooters or cutters. He's not a playmaker but you can't get everything you want. Only we have Wemby who can genuinely carry on both ends in terms of actual playmaking.

[DPG21920]

It's the opposite side of the coin as how you're so thirsty to get bargains that you can't see the forest from the trees.

Also, Lauri would be our second option, not our third. Devin would be our third option (which is the ideal role for him, anyway).

But, you laid it out for us. You prefer to build the team with a bunch of rotation level players instead of a really good one, because it's cheaper. Thanks.

Highly, highly disagree Lauri would be our 2nd option. Devin will have the ball more than him after Wemby.

[DPG21920]

This strawman of “oh you want to build a worse team because it’s cheaper” is beyond silly. Just because someone may be a better player doesnt mean they are worth infinitely more or even that they are worth anyting more in context of building a sustainable winner.

We dont have to win this next season. Get that out of your heads. We have to improve. There’s a difference.

[DPG21920]

You yourself have thrown out 3 FRPs + Keldon for Lauri, so it's one extra FRP that is the deal breaker for you? Don't want to lose that chance to get Blake Wesley?

I'm not sure wtf else you're talking about with the rest of your post - because that's not what I said to you. You gave your names. Cam Johnson, Jerami Grant, Simone Fonteccio. Thanks. Your approach to team building is understood now. I don't agree with it, but who cares? That's your approach, my approach is different. Thanks for explaining yours.

Yes. It is a breaker especially factoring in what picks. Beyond that my 3 pick scenario was one to extend an olive branch on what I would consider an OK overpay; not my actual preference.

[RC_Drunkford]

Lmao I did exactly what was asked of me. I was told it’s completely hypothetical so I gave my hypothetical targets. Why are you mad I did exactly what was asked of me?

Cam Johnson completely realistic target. Jerami Grant. Simone Fontecchio. Several examples.

wasting a first on Cam Johnson who's a role player averaging 12 PPG is actually dumber than trading 3-4 picks for an All-Star in Markkanen who averages 23 PPG. Those are the players you give up assets for, not some regular rotation guy who you can easily sign in free agency.

[LeBowen]

Brook plays defense.

Brook is a great rim protector, but painfully slow and a liability in any kind of perimeter situation.


Lauri doesnt.

Says who?
You can say that Trae doesn't play defense. Or Luka.
Lauri definitely does. He's not great at it, but he's not a liability in a good scheme.

Not many teams have two frontcourt players who are both legit scoring options.
Lauri could easily guard almost every second frontcourt option.
He could also guard every stretch big, allowing us to keep Wemby in the paint.

He'd also be effective against teams like Dallas.
How did Celtics stop all the lobs? They put Tatum on Lively/Gafford because they have no post moves and had KP/Horford as help defenders.
Lauri could do that.


The price yall are talking about paying Lauri needs to be wayyyyyyy more than Brook Lopez.

Because Brook Lopez is almost a decade older.


Beyond that, it’s the fact that hes not an initiator or self creator like the other true star wings/PF’s that cost what yall are talking about that prevents him from being 2nd in usage.

You can be the initiator off the ball. Great shooters are just that. Would you say Steph isn't an initiator because most of his actions start off the ball?
Elite shooters initiate just by moving. You can't ignore someone like Lauri moving on the perimeter or even cutting if he's shooting 40% on 8 attempts from deep?
In combination with Wemby, it's impossible to guard.

I already said for example Siakam is a better first option than Lauri. But what do we need? More ball-pounders who aren't reliable shooters or a flamethrower who shifts the entire defense with just his presence?
Teams with limited bigs usually want wing creators. We have our wing creator at C. How many wing creators Nuggets, Kings or Heat have with their passing bigs?
You don't want too many creators, someone needs to be elite off the ball.
Celtics also play their best basketball with KP, who's role on offense is as close as it gets to what Lauri would do.
He doesn't have any self-creation skills other than shooting over people in mismatches.


Vassell is a much better self creator and passer and will have the ball more than Lauri. Lauri relies a lot of being assisted - that caps his usage on a team with 2 guys clearly ahead of him (which UTA didnt have)

Again, were players like Klay or Ray not second options, then?

[z0sa]

Highly, highly disagree Lauri would be our 2nd option. Devin will have the ball more than him after Wemby.

When will CP3 and Castle have the ball, then? You really want more of Pop acting like Vassell is Manu 2.0 when he's clearly not?

You have a guy in CP3 for sure and probably Castle after a season or two who will be that guy. Vassell doesn't need to be dribbling around the perimeter trying to use multiple screens a la Manu. it's not his game and even if it was, it's not the best role for him. He needs wide open looks from 3 and playmaking off of those looks, IE secondary playmaking. He's not a baller in that regard, sorry - we had a whole season of it (or so) and we saw the results.

[scott]

Highly, highly disagree Lauri would be our 2nd option. Devin will have the ball more than him after Wemby.

I agree Devin will have the ball more, but that doesn't make him the second option. CP3 will have the ball more than both of them. He'll also not be the second option. USG% is one of the most misunderstood stats around. People think it is an indicator of how much a player has the ball in his hands, but it's not.


This strawman of “oh you want to build a worse team because it’s cheaper” is beyond silly. Just because someone may be a better player doesnt mean they are worth infinitely more or even that they are worth anyting more in context of building a sustainable winner.

We dont have to win this next season. Get that out of your heads. We have to improve. There’s a difference.

The "on you want to build a worse team because its cheaper" isn't a strawman, it's the culmination of reading your posts (which I enjoy and value, btw) over the years. You want to win every deal. That sounds nice in isolation, but in the cumulative it's suboptimal.

Agreed 100% we don't have to win next season. Improvement is good. But some types of improvement are more valuable than others in the long run. If we improve to a 35-win team because we signed CP3 and DDR... that is improvement, but what value does it really present? I'd rather win 28 games focused on the youth (with some vet leadership, like a CP3) than win 35 games on the back of CP3 and DDR. Ideally, I'd like to see this team improved to the point where we are AT LEAST in the hunt for a play-in spot so that Year 2 Wemby (along with Devin and Castle) can get experience playing in high-stakes games together. If we added Lauri, I think we could be a Top6 team in the West. Now, I don't think we make it past the 2nd round (at best), but I want those guys to get that experience. We aren't going to make the leap from high lottery to an NBA title. We have to get the experience of playoff failure. Even Timmy, who won the chip in his 2nd year, got that experience of the bitter taste of playoff defeat in his rookie year. That's important. Wemby needs to feel that, and quickly, because I think he's good enough to take a team to the title by year 3 or 4. He is that special.

[RC_Drunkford]

Markkanen: blocks Ja Morant twice in the pick & roll, blocks KAT out of a post up, forces Devin Booker to shoot an airball, guards Haliburton on the perimeter and AD inside


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XA9eKZ0d0hg

Spurstalk: "MaRkKaNeN dOeSn'T pLaY dEfEnSe"

[scott]

Yes. It is a breaker especially factoring in what picks. Beyond that my 3 pick scenario was one to extend an olive branch on what I would consider an OK overpay; not my actual preference.

Yes, because you historically value getting a bargain over actually improving the team. It's obvious through the way you grade trades and throw out proposals.

[Atl Spur]

lol….We have no business overpaying for a dude on the last year of a contract….period! Put the lipstick away and let the pig go on its way! BTW, varying perspectives are a good thing:)

[z0sa]

lol….We have no business overpaying for a dude on the last year of a contract….period! Put the lipstick away and let the pig go on its way! BTW, varying perspectives are a good thing:)

I tentatively agree, but there's hidden value in taking a guy off the market and putting him next to Wemby for a year, plus promising we'll max him next summer. If we suck ass and he leaves, okay I see your point. No way we trade for him without a verbal agreement he'll resign with us, though.

[LeBowen]

Markkanen: blocks Ja Morant twice in the pick & roll, blocks KAT out of a post up, forces Devin Booker to shoot an airball, guards Haliburton on the perimeter and AD inside


Imagine teams stacking up on bigs to try and counter Wemby and then we play Markkanen at C against backup bigs while Wemby sits.
Opens up so many options.

People don't understand how rare it is to have a legit 7 footer shooting 40% from deep on high volume. And he's also an above average athlete.
It's just Lauri, Porzingis and KAT in the entire league. The rarest archetype every team wants to have.

[Atl Spur]

Let’s not conjure up some of Laurie bashing post during the demar trade a few years back; some of posting here have to be right at all cost! The hypocrisy

[scott]

Markkanen: blocks Ja Morant twice in the pick & roll, blocks KAT out of a post up, forces Devin Booker to shoot an airball, guards Haliburton on the perimeter and AD inside


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XA9eKZ0d0hg

Spurstalk: "MaRkKaNeN dOeSn'T pLaY dEfEnSe"

As LeBowen mentioned elsewhere, Lauri fits in nicely with a CP3/Vassell/Castle/Lauri/Wemby lineup because that lineup only has one weak spot in spot important aspects. That's 4 good shooters in the lineup. That's 4 good defenders in the lineup. That's 4 (relative to their position) good ball handlers in the lineup. We don't need Lauri to be all of those things, because the rest of the lineup is all of those things. That's the beauty of the fit. The Spurs don't need to sit around and wait for the perfect player with 99 ratings in every category to emerge like this 2K Create a Player. Lauri is a fit *because* of how he fits. That sounds like a ridiculous statement, but folks need to think about the rest of this lineup and then think of how Lauri fit. A puzzle piece isn't the entire picture all into itself, it fits because of the pieces around it.

[Atl Spur]

I tentatively agree, but there's hidden value in taking a guy off the market and putting him next to Wemby for a year, plus promising we'll max him next summer. If we suck ass and he leaves, okay I see your point. No way we trade for him without a verbal agreement he'll resign with us, though.

Wemby is the ultimate chess piece; place a brook lopez piece as a stop gap this year if Utah gets cute. I’m not oppose to giving market value for the talent but killing our future viability is not worth it.

[Chinook]

So just to be clear, Markkanen would not have been mentioned as a target three years ago. In fact he was an option three years ago, and the idea was meh to most people. I don't think you need all the answers right now. A "concrete plan" shouldn't require a list of targets for each off-season. I think targeting some uncertain player is how you end up panicking and trading away a top-10 pick because the one player you wanted was picked in front of you and then showing your ass because the trade you built your entire off-season around didn't end up materializing. The point of having SO many picks is that you don't have to freak out about any individual opportunity. If the Spurs have to pay seven picks to get Brown in two years when the Celtics buckle under the weight of the new tax rules, you can handle it. Or if Trey Murphy starts to blow up and the Pelicans are listless due to Zion falling apart, then you can make the trade then. Or maybe Embiid is just done by deadline 2026 and Paul George asks out. Or, you know, a lot of things.

The Spurs have to continue to trust their drafting ability or excise that whole department and replace it. They can't retain it while simultaneously using its lack of success to justify making huge trades. So practically, the Spurs should trust the draft, because it's still the most sustainable way to build a strong roster, even when intending to make huge trades. Even in a fantasy scenario, though, I prefer to hope the Spurs magically figure out the draft than circumvent it. Of course, I've spilled a ton of digital ink talking about the more direct moves I would want them to make. But when I see threads talking about the Spurs trading "it all" to complete a Castle, Vassell, __________, _________, Wembanyama lineup, I feel like we're missing the point. IF Stephon, Devin and Victor all work out, the team should be trying to fill the other spots sustainably rather than acquiring players that should warrant emptying the war chest between them. Those are guys who will be too expensive to keep. The Spurs should use some of that chest to bring in good players to fill those positions now, but the bulk of it should be used to fill in the rest of the roster. The Spurs are never going to be a second-apron team. That's just the reality of being in a small market. They're going to have to be okay with the bulk of their rotation cycling out every few years. If they're smart, they will trade those pieces before they expire for picks they can use to keep things going, or for the right types of role-players to strike.

I say all this as a person who's probably gotten a couple more gray hairs trying to wrap my head about the Mark situation despite being apathetic to his potential acquisition. There are multiple paths forward. Mark represents one genus of paths, but there are others. While I worry about the FO's ability to find a good path, that doesn't mean I don't believe the path they choose won't have options to put it all together. They have to do what makes sense to them, or else they're going to do it even worse.

[Mr. Body]

Imagine teams stacking up on bigs to try and counter Wemby and then we play Markkanen at C against backup bigs while Wemby sits.
Opens up so many options.

People don't understand how rare it is to have a legit 7 footer shooting 40% from deep on high volume. And he's also an above average athlete.
It's just Lauri, Porzingis and KAT in the entire league. The rarest archetype every team wants to have.

Does Lauri play anywhere close to a 7 footer? I feel like we're talking about Risacher again here. Markkanen doesn't block shots and he is a good rebounder but not a glass-cleaner. Defensively, he's very bad. You can't possibly expect him to be a defensive anchor, can you? As a C we'd get destroyed. He really is an Andrea Bargnani in terms of his height not being utilized.

[scott]

So just to be clear, Markkanen would not have been mentioned as a target three years ago. In fact he was an option three years ago, and the idea was meh to most people. I don't think you need all the answers right now. A "concrete plan" shouldn't require a list of targets for each off-season. I think targeting some uncertain player is how you end up panicking and trading away a top-10 pick because the one player you wanted was picked in front of you. The point of having SO many picks is that you don't have to freak out. If the Spurs have to pay seven picks to get Brown in two years when the Celtics buckle under the weight of the new tax rules, you can handle it. Or if Trey Murphy starts to blow up and the Pelicans are listless due to Zion falling apart, then you can make the trade then. Or maybe Embiid is just done by deadline 2026 and Paul George asks out. Or, you know, a lot of things.



This is a great point I brought up in another thread. Right now, Lauri and Naz are the two ideal, and realistically attainable, wing targets that I think fit this team. But 3 years ago, no one would have said either of those guys. There will be some other wings who emerge in this mold. Jalen Johnson is a guy who maybe could emerge into that, for example (Johnson isn't the shooter that Lauri or Naz are, but Naz wasn't always the shooter he is now either). Things change.

But one thing is certain, whoever does emerge will have their own flaws, and if they emerge the way Lauri has... he will be just as expensive as Lauri is now. The only way around this is to 1) draft that guy or 2) identify and acquire that guy before he emerges from his cocoon. Both things are easier said than done.

[spurraider21]

Guy blocks half a shot per game but people post highlight vids of those blocks to prove up his defense?

[LeBowen]

So just to be clear, Markkanen would not have been mentioned as a target three years ago. In fact he was an option three years ago, and the idea was meh to most people.

While we're just casuals and the idea was meh (not to me personally, but I wasn't that high on him), the problem is that our front office and scouting department didn't recognize his potential.
Because if they thought he can become what he is today, they would've surely taken him in Demar deal.
When we get back to contender status, we'll eventually need to pull a player out of our ass here and there.
Players unwanted by their teams, but then their potential is recognized.
Not even neccesarily star players, like Knicks and Brunson, but role players.

Instead, we have RC and Pop costing the ownership $26M per year combined and we're penny pinching in the second round instead of taking a flyer on someone like Furphy.
Yeah, he'll likely be out of the league in three years, but if there's 20% of him becoming a good player, you take it. It's the second round.


The Spurs have to continue to trust their drafting ability or excise that whole department and replace it.

This is another problem. I don't feel there's enough accountability right now and as long as RC and Pop are at the wheel, noone will ever get fired or even demoted.

Agreed with the rest, good post.

[baseline bum]

wasting a first on Cam Johnson who's a role player averaging 12 PPG is actually dumber than trading 3-4 picks for an All-Star in Markkanen who averages 23 PPG. Those are the players you give up assets for, not some regular rotation guy who you can easily sign in free agency.

Would be like a woman picking three guys packing four inches over one packing ten inches.

[Extra Stout]

Ainge is only going to trade Markannen if he gets a deal that knocks his socks off. He can’t extend him for a month, so why not listen? I don’t think he’s under pressure to move him. How do we know Markannen doesn’t like SLC anyway? What do Finns look for in nightlife? Spas?

If the Spurs made a fair offer, I still don’t think that moves Ainge to pull the trigger. They’d have to do something like what the Knicks did, I think.

[scott]

Yes. It is a breaker especially factoring in what picks. Beyond that my 3 pick scenario was one to extend an olive branch on what I would consider an OK overpay; not my actual preference.

If I'm remembering the difference between your offer and my offer correctly, it's SA28 (with a Top-1 protected BOS swap attached). I'm presuming that by then we'll be good (and if we aren't, then hopefully everyone is getting fired, because Wemby is probably about to ask for a trade). So the pick will be in the 20s. So the deal breaker for you is someone like Blake Wesley.

This is what I mean by caring more about "winning the trade".

[LeBowen]

How do we know Markannen doesn’t like SLC anyway? What do Finns look for in nightlife? Spas?

He'd be happy to stay if Jazz actually wants to compete.
He publicly said he won't accept getting shut down or tanking again.

The issue for the Jazz is that he's not a #1 guy and two upcoming drafts are too good for a bad team not to embrace the tank.
But if they tank, Lauri doesn't sign an extension and then they lose him for cheap at the deadline.

My educated guess would be that he won't sign an extension if they don't guarantee him they'll try to win games.
That includes bringing at least one more good veteran.

[scott]

Ainge is only going to trade Markannen if he gets a deal that knocks his socks off. He can’t extend him for a month, so why not listen? I don’t think he’s under pressure to move him. How do we know Markannen doesn’t like SLC anyway? What do Finns look for in nightlife? Spas?

If the Spurs made a fair offer, I still don’t think that moves Ainge to pull the trigger. They’d have to do something like what the Knicks did, I think.

I agree in the conclusion (the Spurs should make a fair offer, which I've outlined what I think that is earlier) but I actually disagree that Ainge is only going to trade Markkanen for a killer deal. I think Ainge is actually fairly committed to trading Lauri, but he's effectively using the media to bid up the price for him by pitting teams against each other.

Given that the Jazz have done absolutely nothing else to immediately improve their team, and I don't think they're going to make a blockbuster trade, it doesn't make a lot of sense for them to stick with Lauri. Ainge actually has a golden opportunity to hard tank in 2025. He doesn't need to land pick #1, only top 4 or 5, to add his franchise guy, because next draft *appears* loaded with those options. So he really should race for the worst record by rolling out a bad, but exciting, lineup of Collier/George/Cody/Hendricks/Kessler with Flip and Sensabaugh off the bench. He should move Markkanen and Sexton for as much as he can possibly get, and leave Clarkson as the vet leader to teach those young pups. At the end of all that, he'll have his new lead horse, a roster full of young guys with a year of extra experience, and an unprecedented war chest of picks to build around that young stud however he wants. It's basically what the Spurs are set up to do, but on steroids because they'll have double the extra picks we have now.

I think if the Jazz do that, they set themselves up to be a real force in the back part of the decade. If the Spurs landed Markkanen and kept SA25 and ATL25, then around 2028, 2029 we're going to see SAS, Utah and OKC dominating the West.

[DAF86]

Ainge is only going to trade Markannen if he gets a deal that knocks his socks off. He can’t extend him for a month, so why not listen? I don’t think he’s under pressure to move him. How do we know Markannen doesn’t like SLC anyway? What do Finns look for in nightlife? Spas?

If the Spurs made a fair offer, I still don’t think that moves Ainge to pull the trigger. They’d have to do something like what the Knicks did, I think.

It makes no sense for the Jazz to resign Markkanen. Also, apparently Markkanen doesn't want to resign with a team that has no chance to compete. The Jazz are trading Lauri sooner or later.

[Extra Stout]

If the Spurs landed Markannen, they’d probably be a playoff team in 24-25, so I wouldn’t be married to holding onto their own pick. ATL’s pick is another matter.

[Ignazzz]

No way. Injury risk. Without Wemby we are top 3 lotto team

[scott]

If the Spurs landed Markannen, they’d probably be a playoff team in 24-25, so I wouldn’t be married to holding onto their own pick. ATL’s pick is another matter.

The reason I want to hold SA25 in addition to ATL25 is that I want it to give me flexibility to move up with the ATL pick if I need to.

If we end up with pick 8 and 21, for example, can that 21 be what I need to go from 8 to 6 if I have to? And if not, I think I still want that #21 for useful prospect who will blossom around 2027-28. So for me, it's less about where that pick is projected to fall and more about the flexibility it adds in the supposedly strong 25 draft.

And other than that, as I've said earlier, Ainge already has 3 FRPs next year and has gaps in the even years in his war chest (and he has 4 picks already in 2027), so he may be looking to supplement with even year picks.

[offset formation]

If the Spurs landed Markannen, they’d probably be a playoff team in 24-25, so I wouldn’t be married to holding onto their own pick. ATL’s pick is another matter.

Yup. Under no circumstancesshould we include ATL picks. The Hawks are one sprained ankle to TY from being a top 5 pick in next years draft and depending on what transpires next offseason potentially again in 27. Those picks are fucking gold and Ill never understand the folks here being so desperateto move them now especiallywhen we have $25 million in cap space

[Sugus]

Would be like a woman picking three guys packing four inches over one packing ten inches.

Surprising as it may sound, most women would much prefer three 4-inch guys (or even a single one) over a 10-inch pole that can't fit inside them.

Not the best analogy tbh.

[RC_Drunkford]

Imagine teams stacking up on bigs to try and counter Wemby and then we play Markkanen at C against backup bigs while Wemby sits.
Opens up so many options.

People don't understand how rare it is to have a legit 7 footer shooting 40% from deep on high volume. And he's also an above average athlete.
It's just Lauri, Porzingis and KAT in the entire league. The rarest archetype every team wants to have.

That's not even what I'm looking at. We have 2 of those on the floor at the same time. The length alone is gonna be terrifying, at the rim and in the passing lanes. Lauri fits the whole positionless basketball theme too, as he can shoot it and attack close outs while also being 7 feet tall and mobile on the perimeter. He grabs a lot of boards too. I'd still try to sign Naz Reid as a back up just so teams don't ever catch a break.

[Atl Spur]

Give me brook Lopez vs selling the farm for Laurie ( I’m a huge LM supporter ).

[couchman]

I think people are overestimating how good this team will be next year by assuming that we’re already at “treadmill” status because of CP3.
We added a rookie who can’t shoot and a useful but elderly and injury prone point guard to the roster, but we are mostly bringing back everyone else who got us a bottom 5 record last year.
And you KNOW Pop will give Branham and Wesley and Sochan plenty of run to see if any of them turn the corner into good useful players.
If CP3 plays 20-25 mpg and stays healthy and Wemby stays healthy we probably have a 30-35 win team.
That is somewhere around 8-10 in the lottery.
That is also a whopping 10-15 games outside the play-in.
So when I say “soft tank,” that is what I mean.
And it leaves room to tank hard in the last month for a better slot.

My concern is that adding LM would put us in play-in treadmill territory and we’d miss out on a lottery ticket in the ‘25 draft.
I also think we need to have reasonable expectations of what Lm would look like for the Spurs, especially in year one when most new acquisitions struggle a bit to learn “the system.”
He’d probably be just good enough to give us a terrible pick but maybe good enough to make the playoffs.

I am still in favor o getting him at a fair price but I also still want one more lotto ticket for that ‘25 draft.

[DAF86]

Surprising as it may sound, most women would much prefer three 4-inch guys (or even a single one) over a 10-inch pole that can't fit inside them.

Not the best analogy tbh.

Like in the Markkanen case, it is all about fit.(?)

[baseline bum]

Yup. Under no circumstancesshould we include ATL picks. The Hawks are one sprained ankle to TY from being a top 5 pick in next years draft and depending on what transpires next offseason potentially again in 27. Those picks are fucking gold and Ill never understand the folks here being so desperateto move them now especiallywhen we have $25 million in cap space

Cap space isn't nearly as useful as it used to be when stars usually don't hit free agency, and Markannen would be the best available 2025 free agent anyways if everyone that can hit free agency in 2025 does.

[baseline bum]

Surprising as it may sound, most women would much prefer three 4-inch guys (or even a single one) over a 10-inch pole that can't fit inside them.

Not the best analogy tbh.

IDK could just ask Mandingo not to go all in instead of asking three Jerami Grants if it's in yet.

[DAF86]

The more I think about it, there isn't really a scenario that makes more sense than Markkanen to the Spurs. For any of the sides involved.

For the Spurs, Lauri is probably the best fit available.
For Lauri, playing next to Wemby makes you competitive for the next decade.
For the Jazz, there isn't any other team out there that can give you more.

If PATFO wants it, it should happen, tbh.

[scott]

The more I think about it, there isn't really a scenario that makes more sense than Markkanen to the Spurs. For any of the sides involved.

For the Spurs, Lauri is probably the best fit available.
For Lauri, playing next to Wemby makes you competitive for the next decade.
For the Jazz, there isn't any other team out there that can give you more.

If PATFO wants it, it should happen, tbh.

Agree 100%. And if PAFTO just doesn't think Lauri is a fit, then I'm actually okay with that too (even if I disagree). I just would hate to hear that we thought he was a perfect candidate, but we half-assed in our offer so Ainge went another direction we could have beat without giving up too much. For example, if he goes to GS for Wiggins and 2 FRPs, I'll be pissed because we could have easily beat that. But if he goes to GS for Kuminga and 4 FRPs and 3 swaps, then fuck it, let GS have him for that.

I would just be pissed if we learn that PAFTO was really high on Lauri but we only offered Devonte and the CHA pick because we're trying to be cute (this is an exaggerated example... not even I think this lowly of our FO).

Either be out on him, or be in to get him in a serious way.

[RC_Drunkford]

Does Lauri play anywhere close to a 7 footer? I feel like we're talking about Risacher again here. Markkanen doesn't block shots and he is a good rebounder but not a glass-cleaner. Defensively, he's very bad. You can't possibly expect him to be a defensive anchor, can you? As a C we'd get destroyed. He really is an Andrea Bargnani in terms of his height not being utilized.

what exactly is he bad at on defense? Please elaborate. And no, we are not signing him as the main rim protector.

[TD 21]

Lmao I did exactly what was asked of me. I was told it’s completely hypothetical so I gave my hypothetical targets. Why are you mad I did exactly what was asked of me?

Cam Johnson completely realistic target. Jerami Grant. Simone Fontecchio. Several examples.

You're a good sport, but the thing that you and that arrogant, snobby, self promoting brownnoser you parrot on Spurs X don't get is, even those names will cost multiple "good" assets.

To do what exactly; chase 35ish wins? It doesn't make sense to be half pregnant with this stuff.


Imagine teams stacking up on bigs to try and counter Wemby and then we play Markkanen at C against backup bigs while Wemby sits.
Opens up so many options.

People don't understand how rare it is to have a legit 7 footer shooting 40% from deep on high volume. And he's also an above average athlete.
It's just Lauri, Porzingis and KAT in the entire league. The rarest archetype every team wants to have.

Markkanen can't credibly play C. He's like Williamson, Randle, Siakam, Banchero, Gordon, etc. in that he's one of the few remaining true PF's.

[RC_Drunkford]

Guy blocks half a shot per game but people post highlight vids of those blocks to prove up his defense?

we are not signing him as the main shotblocker. People here are saying he's a bad defender, but can't point out what he's actually bad at. He's 7 feet tall, mobile enough to guard on the perimeter and strong enough to guard bigs in the post. So what is he bad at? Y'all act like he's Tre Young. He plays PF and SF, not C.

[TeKu]

The more I think about it, there isn't really a scenario that makes more sense than Markkanen to the Spurs. For any of the sides involved.

For the Spurs, Lauri is probably the best fit available.
For Lauri, playing next to Wemby makes you competitive for the next decade.
For the Jazz, there isn't any other team out there that can give you more.

If PATFO wants it, it should happen, tbh.

Well there is one better scenario for 2 of those players. Markannen to the Spurs in 25 Free Agency, and all those assets retained for future. I'd expect Wright to be back channelling to make this clear to his agent and using the threat to keep Ainge's demands in check.

[DAF86]

Well there is one better scenario for 2 of those players. Markannen to the Spurs in 25 Free Agency, and all those assets retained for future. I'd expect Wright to be back channelling to make this clear to his agent and using the threat to keep Ainge's demands in check.

That's not happening. Also, it is debatable it is better for both. Markkanen would need to waste another year of his career playing for a non competing team, and the Spurs also would be wasting a year not being as good as they could.

[RC_Drunkford]

That's not happening. Also, it is debatable it is better for both. Markkanen would need to waste another year of his career playing for a non competing team, and the Spurs also would be wasting a year not being as good as they could.

The main reason to me is that you can up his salary for this year by renegotiating the contract and then possibly take some of that money off when you extend him. That should give you the possibility to sign him for a little less than the max and maybe frontload his deal, giving you significant cap room once Wemby is on the max.

[BackHome]

No way. Injury risk. Without Wemby we are top 3 lotto team

Yeah, I hope the Spurs get a very good Center through a trade or free agency as when we start competing for a Championship it is going ti be imperative we have someone who can start and hold down the fort for a few weeks or months in case if injuries or just to hep alleviate wear and tear. With the West getting two huge centers added to our opponents Edey and Clingan, we going to have to get some beef on the frontline

[scott]

Another thing to consider is that to be able to sign Lauri as a FA next offseason (which I doubt he ever hits FA) is that it will take some more maneuvering for the Spurs to have the capspace, versus being able to use his bird rights to resign him. Also, the 5% raises versus 8% raises thing.

Just signing Lauri as a FA is possible, just not very likely (for any team).

[Kevin]

Agree 100%. And if PAFTO just doesn't think Lauri is a fit, then I'm actually okay with that too (even if I disagree). I just would hate to hear that we thought he was a perfect candidate, but we half-assed in our offer so Ainge went another direction we could have beat without giving up too much. For example, if he goes to GS for Wiggins and 2 FRPs, I'll be pissed because we could have easily beat that. But if he goes to GS for Kuminga and 4 FRPs and 3 swaps, then fuck it, let GS have him for that.

I would just be pissed if we learn that PAFTO was really high on Lauri but we only offered Devonte and the CHA pick because we're trying to be cute (this is an exaggerated example... not even I think this lowly of our FO).

Either be out on him, or be in to get him in a serious way.

A realistic low ball would be the CHA pick, Bulls pick, 27 swaps and the 31 Minny pick. It's still four picks one of which is pretty good but the rest are meh for a lot of different reasons.

[Sugus]

A realistic low ball would be the CHA pick, Bulls pick, 27 swaps and the 31 Minny pick. It's still four picks one of which is pretty good but the rest are meh for a lot of different reasons.

If that's all it took.... Sign me up. But I just don't see the price being that low at all. The Warriors chasing Lauri with desperation is bad for the Spurs.

[Chinook]

Another thing to consider is that to be able to sign Lauri as a FA next offseason (which I doubt he ever hits FA) is that it will take some more maneuvering for the Spurs to have the capspace, versus being able to use his bird rights to resign him. Also, the 5% raises versus 8% raises thing.

Just signing Lauri as a FA is possible, just not very likely (for any team).

No one should be planning to specifically sign Mark in free agency. The Spurs stand to have a lot of space in 2026, but 2025 is much less certain.

Also, because I guess I'm in some circle of hell, I'm back to assuming the renegotiation date for Mark is 08/28. So he's back to being an expiring with Bird rights rather than a guy Utah could extend then trade at the deadline.

[Kevin]

If that's all it took.... Sign me up. But I just don't see the price being that low at all. The Warriors chasing Lauri with desperation is bad for the Spurs.

Yeah that's a low ball for sure. It will cost one of the ATL picks, prolly the 2030 swaps and the 31 Minny pick. Not sure what the fourth pick would be to make it the winning offer. Bulls pick might be good enough as the fourth best pick.

[sfernald]

The important thing is that the teams trading for the players are giving basically everything they had. The Spurs have more, and thus they should pay more. Or something. I don't think the juice is worth the squeeze right now. I think Indy played this much better than folks want the Spurs to. A few posters really love Mark, and so any price that doesn't cripple the team is worth paying for him. I'm not in that camp, but I also think if the Spurs want Mark, they're going to end up getting outbid by a team willing to debase themselves if they don't come correct. The Spurs can afford to get what they want. But this type of bidding war is a big reason why I wanted the Spurs to aim for an older vet wing while drafting a young wing prospect rather than trying to play the trade game for guys in their 20s. You get the impact you want (probably even a better impact) and the future you want (a more sustainable future), but it costs less.

Well you are right Ainge is trying to create a bidding war. I’ve seen all this before. He goes really slow and before long the fan bases (us) are in a frenzy willing to spend anything. This is just his MO.

He’s trying to create this war, but I’m not sure one actually exists. Of the teams interested, the contenders for the most part don’t seem realistic except maybe GSW who seem to have moved on. There’s no sign of Okc and they are probably completely sitting this bidding war out on principle.

My guess is our front office isn’t getting worked up or emotional. They just gave Ainge their best offer and told him to fuck off if he wanted more. That’s surely what most of us would have done. I buy and sell everyday and that’s how I would do it.

[Chinook]

If I'm being honest, I'm not sure the Spurs are even in these conversations. As far as I could tell, the big reporters are still not talking about this. The Spurs with all of their assets and situation are always going to be a "logical" suitor for a star. We know Ainge leaks to the media, and I think he's doing that here. The point of GS being in the rumor is to get people interested ("Well if they're in this with their assets, we could jump in too") whereas as the Spurs are in there to push the price up ("We're going to have to give our best offer to beat the Spurs with their million picks"). Maybe SA is talking, but apparently they were talking about Murray and Young too.

[sfernald]

You're a good sport, but the thing that you and that arrogant, snobby, self promoting brownnoser you parrot on Spurs X don't get is, even those names will cost multiple "good" assets.

To do what exactly; chase 35ish wins? It doesn't make sense to be half pregnant with this stuff.



Markkanen can't credibly play C. He's like Williamson, Randle, Siakam, Banchero, Gordon, etc. in that he's one of the few remaining true PF's.

Our one and only short term goal this season should be getting Wemby into the play-in so he can get a taste of the playoffs. Keep building this offseason and then maybe make another big move at the deadline if we need more of a boost to get us there. Look at how Dallas is just shifting gears so perfectly each year for Luka.

[RC_Drunkford]

If I'm being honest, I'm not sure the Spurs are even in these conversations. As far as I could tell, the big reporters are still not talking about this. The Spurs with all of their assets and situation are always going to be a "logical" suitor for a star. We know Ainge leaks to the media, and I think he's doing that here. The point of GS being in the rumor is to get people interested ("Well if they're in this with their assets, we could jump in too") whereas as the Spurs are in there to push the price up ("We're going to have to give our best offer to beat the Spurs with their million picks"). Maybe SA is talking, but apparently they were talking about Murray and Young too.

reports say Spurs, Dubs and Kings made significant offers, so I doubt that's made up. It's also been said that about 20 teams called the Jazz because of Lauri and that Utah said the chance of trading him is 10%. Utah's initial plan was to trade for Mikal Bridges to improve the roster, not tank, as they already have enough of a warchest of draft picks.

[Wilt Chamberlain]

reports say Spurs, Dubs and Kings made significant offers, so I doubt that's made up. It's also been said that about 20 teams called the Jazz because of Lauri and that Utah said the chance of trading him is 10%. Utah's initial plan was to trade for Mikal Bridges to improve the roster, not tank.

Seems pretty obvious that Ainge's camp is the one steady leak in all this. A lot of the "what I am hearing reports" sound like Jazz talking points. "It's going to take a blockbuster," and "they don't want to trade him."

That and of course GSW who have to make Curry happy by at least trying hard.

[Mr. Body]

reports say Spurs, Dubs and Kings made significant offers, so I doubt that's made up. It's also been said that about 20 teams called the Jazz because of Lauri and that Utah said the chance of trading him is 10%. Utah's initial plan was to trade for Mikal Bridges to improve the roster, not tank, as they already have enough of a warchest of draft picks.

Wasn't that Utah's own guy saying there were significant offers? Acting as their mouthpiece as much as anything. Significant can mean anything you want it to.

A lot of we've seen so far is classic rhetoric trying to create a market. If teams were motivated to get a deal done, especially in a supposedly hot market, it should have been over by now with teams bidding against each other. Seems like no one is bidding. At most they might have lodged their interest, Ainge is trying to get more, and the prices aren't moving.

[benefactor]

I think we are at a place where no one is really going to change their mind. I'm with scott and LeBowen with the belief that we really can't trust this front office with draft assets when it comes to picking players and it's better to go ahead and trade for a player like Lauri. I don't think you waste them...it's more about being opportunistic. I understand DPG even if I don't agree with him. You want to hold out hope that this front office will be able to take its head out of its ass and pick the players that this team needs to succeed with the assets we have acquired.

At the end of the day it's a very hard call. I saw DPG say he thinks it's a 70% chance those pics will pan out in some way. I honestly think it's closer to 50/50. I worry about this franchise's ability to judge talent. They were too scared to take anyone at number 8 and just traded the pick away instead. How can I trust them with the future picks we own? I and many others are of the opinion that there were players worth taking and the future might show that. As far as building from where we are now goes, Lauri looks like a step in the right direction. You know for a fact you are getting a good player. Perhaps the future will tell a different tale and some better player will get picked with the pick that we traded. It's a risk you take. But from where I stand, it's the risk that needs to be taken.

[AFBlue]

We buzzin?

[benefactor]

It comes down to this...do you actually trust this team that purports to be a team that gets better through the draft to actually get better through the draft? How much real trust do you have in them? I personally don't really trust them. Make the trade.

[Robz4000]

It comes down to this...do you actually trust this team that purports to be a team that gets better through the draft to actually get better through the draft? How much real trust do you have in them? I personally don't really trust them. Make the trade.

I still think the scouting is fine, my problem is with the coaching and developmental staff aka Pop. Spurs may find talent in the draft but I doubt their ability to develop it. That's part of the reason I'm cool with trading for picks further out for when Pop has retired. That said, BWrong doesn't inspire confidence either tbh.

[RC_Drunkford]

why are people here talking about building through the draft? We have 4 top 10 picks on the team and will likely add another one next offseason. We also still have Branham and Wesley. How many guys do you want to draft, 15? Wemby is on a rookie deal and this is about frontloading salary to add an All-Star while you don't have to pay Victor the max. The whole drafting thing is not even the point. All up and coming picks will need at least 3 years to develop into reliable contributors.

[benefactor]

My best comparison is this...I'm the kind of person when I make an investment I know that the return is more than likely secure. I see Lauri as a secure investment. A draft pick is more like a lottery ticket, except with better odds. You take something based on research and hope that the research will equal results. It's not quite a full caution to the wind crapshoot... it's a highly educated guess. But over here you have what is probably a 90% chance that this guy will improve your team and be a building block for the future. So once again, it all comes down to odds and trust. You trade the picks and get something that is almost guaranteed. You keep the pics and trust the odds.

[benefactor]

why are people here talking about building through the draft? We have 4 top 10 picks on the team and will likely add another one next offseason. We also still have Branham and Wesley. How many guys do you want to draft, 15? Wemby is on a rookie deal and this is about frontloading salary to add an All-Star while you don't have to pay Victor the max. The whole drafting thing is not even the point. All up and coming picks will need at least 3 years to develop into reliable contributors.
The Spurs have acquired all these picks for this moment. The opportunity has arisen. Make the move for a reliable contributor

[sfernald]

The Spurs have acquired all these picks for this moment. The opportunity has arisen. Make the move for a reliable contributor

‘Again as long as they don’t get raped by Ainge, do it.

[exstatic]

My best comparison is this...I'm the kind of person when I make an investment I know that the return is more than likely secure. I see Lauri as a secure investment. A draft pick is more like a lottery ticket, except with better odds. You take something based on research and hope that the research will equal results. It's not quite a full caution to the wind crapshoot... it's a highly educated guess. But over here you have what is probably a 90% chance that this guy will improve your team and be a building block for the future. So once again, it all comes down to odds and trust. You trade the picks and get something that is almost guaranteed. You keep the pics and trust the odds.

I want a secure return also, and by all accounts, we can only receive him with the remaining one year on his contract. Ain’t dropping the bag for that, just to have him go LaMond Murray/Marcus Morris on us.

[benefactor]

I want a secure return also, and by all accounts, we can only receive him with the remaining one year on his contract. Ain’t dropping the bag for that, just to have him go LaMond Murray/Marcus Morris on us.
Well I'm working off the assumption that he's going to sign a long-term deal. That is a given

[scott]

Because I also doubt this will happen for us, I made a 2K build so I can fulfill dreams that way.

Your 2024-25 San Antonio Spurs:

CP3/Tre
Devin/Branham/Lonnie Walker/Lindsey Waters (acquired in a salary cutting move)
Castle/Champagnie/Sissoko
Lauri/Sochan/Mamu
Wemby/Lopez/Bassey

Race for seis

[Dejounte]

https://youtu.be/ZRkiX8SDiVM?feature=shared

I believe Don Harris is an insider, have seen him break news before.

he says it could be Jeremy + Keldon + 1 first round pick that’s not an ATL pick

[Mr. Body]

This investment language makes it sound like Markkanen is a sure thing instead of a guy who has never played more than 68 games, and that was his rookie year, played more than 55 games last year, has a full slate of skills a team can use instead of a fairly narrow band, if he's very good at those, has ever played in a single game of importance in his professional career, and so on.

When the real issue is opportunity cost. When you burn up so much draft capital and max out a contract slot to get this guy, those are things you can't use for anyone else. The flaws in this guy are too significant to trade for him. An actual star can emerge to trade those pieces for, or any other future moves.

[DAF86]

Because I also doubt this will happen for us, I made a 2K build so I can fulfill dreams that way.

Your 2024-25 San Antonio Spurs:

CP3/Tre
Devin/Branham/Lonnie Walker/Lindsey Waters (acquired in a salary cutting move)
Castle/Champagnie/Sissoko
Lauri/Sochan/Mamu
Wemby/Lopez/Bassey

Race for seis

If we trade for Lauri, I would go all in and sign one 3 and D forward to round up the team and really make a push for it.

CP3/Tre
Vassell/Castle
Cam Johnson/Keldon
Lauri/Sochan
Wemby/Brook

[sfernald]

https://youtu.be/ZRkiX8SDiVM?feature=shared

I believe Don Harris is an insider, have seen him break news before.

he says it could be Jeremy + Keldon + 1 first round pick that’s not an ATL pick

I would do that in a heartbeat and I think everyone here would except Mr. Ody.

[Mr. Body]

https://youtu.be/ZRkiX8SDiVM?feature=shared

I believe Don Harris is an insider, have seen him break news before.

he says it could be Jeremy + Keldon + 1 first round pick that’s not an ATL pick

That's closer to what a player like this on an expiring contract should go for. I wouldn't include Sochan and don't think the team would. I think they're super-high on him and the chance to see what happens with Castle-Sochan-Wembanyama is too good to pass up. Find another piece instead.

[Leetonidas]

If price is only Jeremy/Keldon/1st then you do that all day. But I doubt that's all it would take to get it done

[baseline bum]

I want a secure return also, and by all accounts, we can only receive him with the remaining one year on his contract. Ain’t dropping the bag for that, just to have him go LaMond Murray/Marcus Morris on us.

Difference is here the Spurs could offer Markannen a lot more money than anyone else so as long as they offer 5 years with max raises he'll likely be back.

[vy65]

https://youtu.be/ZRkiX8SDiVM?feature=shared

I believe Don Harris is an insider, have seen him break news before.

he says it could be Jeremy + Keldon + 1 first round pick that’s not an ATL pick

I’d do that in a heartbeat

[baseline bum]

https://youtu.be/ZRkiX8SDiVM?feature=shared

I believe Don Harris is an insider, have seen him break news before.

he says it could be Jeremy + Keldon + 1 first round pick that’s not an ATL pick

If you're not in SA Harris is the lead sports guy on the news for the local MAGA TV affiliate WOAI-TV. I have never known him to break anything and doubt he knows shit here either. He's the one who flipped out when TSpence was making those Gasol to San Antonio reports. :lol

[benefactor]

I’d do that in a heartbeat
Same

[Mr. Body]

If anything this is just tonic to the insane packages everyone has been throwing together. Local sports media guy throwing it in the other direction.

Keldon plus a couple picks has always been around the range for me. Not any unprotected picks.

[baseline bum]

I’d do that in a heartbeat

That's so ridiculously lopsided, not worth taking Don Harris seriously here.

[Mr. Body]

That's so ridiculously lopsided, not worth taking Don Harris seriously here.

For an expiring injury prone player with few other suitors? No.

[baseline bum]

For an expiring injury prone player with few other suitors? No.

We get it, you think Markannen sucks.

[benefactor]

We get it, you think Markannen sucks.
Don't bother with him. You already know why.

[benefactor]

Why does Mr. Body hate white players? Are you some disgruntled black Boomer who thinks white players aren't any good?

[Mr. Body]

We get it, you think Markannen sucks.

Great reading, champ.

I've said bending over and shitting out all our picks like you want to do is stupid. And nonsensical.

:lmao

I don't get the desperation you have to give up everything we have. It doesn't even matter what player.

:lmao

[benefactor]

Remember, he wanted to trade down if it came to picking Reed Shepperd

[baseline bum]

Great reading, champ.

I've said bending over and shitting out all our picks like you want to do is stupid. And nonsensical.

:lmao

I don't get the desperation you have to give up everything we have. It doesn't even matter what player.

:lmao

You think Markannen sucks if you think two protected firsts and Keldon Johnson is his trade value. Pretty much anyone that wants him can and will beat that offer.

[baseline bum]

Why does Mr. Body hate white players? Are you some disgruntled black Boomer who thinks white players aren't any good?

He loves Zach Collins for some reason and thinks he's worth $17 million a year.

[exstatic]

Well I'm working off the assumption that he's going to sign a long-term deal. That is a given

Not in our history. Dropping a bag on an ending contract would be like Charlie Brown running up to Lucy holding the ball, just one more time.

You can’t throw the bag on an ending contract. That could be a catastrophic mistake from which the franchise may never recover. It’s much more consequential than a couple of missed draft picks.

[exstatic]

https://youtu.be/ZRkiX8SDiVM?feature=shared

I believe Don Harris is an insider, have seen him break news before.

he says it could be Jeremy + Keldon + 1 first round pick that’s not an ATL pick

I would miss Jeremy, but would be so down for that.

[tbdog]

Warriors beat that offer though.

[benefactor]

Not in our history. Dropping a bag on an ending contract would be like Charlie Brown running up to Lucy holding the ball, just one more time.

You can’t throw the bag on an ending contract. That could be a catastrophic mistake from which the franchise may never recover. It’s much more consequential than a couple of missed draft picks.
The deal is predicated on him signing. If he doesn't there is no deal.

[exstatic]

Warriors beat that offer though.

With what? Ainge is said to want young players, since he has all the FRPs he can manage. He would want Kuminga, who GS wouldn’t even include in a deal for an All NBA player, PG 13.

[benefactor]

Him signing a Max contract with the Spurs is part of the deal. I'm not sure where you've missed that

[vy65]

Not in our history. Dropping a bag on an ending contract would be like Charlie Brown running up to Lucy holding the ball, just one more time.

You can’t throw the bag on an ending contract. That could be a catastrophic mistake from which the franchise may never recover. It’s much more consequential than a couple of missed draft picks.

Well this is the problem though: there is never going to be a “perfect trade” that ticks off every box with no downside. If the plan is to trade for stars that become available, there are going to be a range of possible criticisms: he’s a malcontent; the asking price is too high; he doesn’t fit the timeline; he doesn’t fit a position of need; he’s going to have to be extended; we’re going to have to take back bad contracts; etc.

They committed themselves to an approach when they traded 8. That’s fine, but you gotta live with that approach. You can’t go back now and say “it’s not in our dna to make this type of trade or that.” The FO made this bed, and now they have to sleep in it.

[baseline bum]

With what? Ainge is said to want young players, since he has all the FRPs he can manage. He would want Kuminga, who GS wouldn’t even include in a deal for an All NBA player, PG 13.

Then the Spurs are royally fucked since Keldon is replacement level and Sochan is even worse.

[exstatic]

The deal is predicated on him signing. If he doesn't there is no deal.

He can’t. We’ve turned this over 15 different ways in this thread, and there’s no way to do an extend and trade. He can’t extend until mid August. There is a 6 month moratorium after extending until you can trade him. That is after the trade deadline. If you trade him, there’s a 6 month moratorium before you can extend him. There’s also an issue of his current salary being a limiter of his new extension. You can use cap room to give him a raise, then extend him, but the new rule is that you have to be at the floor by the first day of the season, not the end of the season like befor, limiting the cap room you can carry into the season, and therefore, the raise you can give him. He’s not particularly happy there, and likely won’t just blindly extend, and give Ainge that kind of control over his future.

[Spurs Homer]

I would give up vassell before sochan --
and

all these posters posting spurs lineups with castle as an off guard - i hope are wrong -
i would play him point coming off the bench so that by next season - should paul be gone - castle would be ready -

I would just give paul the assignment that castle is his apprentice all season and to get him ready to take over -

unless the spurs go chasing for another pg - but that would just magnify the blunder of letting dilly go for nothing

[Wilt Chamberlain]

Jazz have quantity not quality of FRP. The Spurs are the only team with quality FRP on offer.

[exstatic]

Well this is the problem though: there is never going to be a “perfect trade” that ticks off every box with no downside. If the plan is to trade for stars that become available, there are going to be a range of possible criticisms: he’s a malcontent; the asking price is too high; he doesn’t fit the timeline; he doesn’t fit a position of need; he’s going to have to be extended; we’re going to have to take back bad contracts; etc.

They committed themselves to an approach when they traded 8. That’s fine, but you gotta live with that approach. You can’t go back now and say “it’s not in our dna to make this type of trade or that.” The FO made this bed, and now they have to sleep in it.
You should never mentally lock yourself into any deal. Always be prepared to move to the next one, rather than get Ainge-raped.

[exstatic]

Then the Spurs are royally fucked since Keldon is replacement level and Sochan is even worse.

I Think NBA personnel value Sochan much differently that STers.

[benefactor]

He can’t. We’ve turned this over 15 different ways in this thread, and there’s no way to do an extend and trade. He can’t extend until mid August. There is a 6 month moratorium after extending until you can trade him. That is after the trade deadline. If you trade him, there’s a 6 month moratorium before you can extend him. There’s also an issue of his current salary being a limiter of his new extension. You can use cap room to give him a raise, then extend him, but the new rule is that you have to be at the floor by the first day of the season, not the end of the season like befor, limiting the cap room you can carry into the season, and therefore, the raise you can give him. He’s not particularly happy there, and likely won’t just blindly extend, and give Ainge that kind of control over his future.
I know all this. He agrees to the extension when the time comes. What makes you think it won't work out here? He is literally a perfect fit.

[baseline bum]

I Think NBA personnel value Sochan much differently that STers.

Based on what? All these GMs beating down the Spurs door to trade for him?

[PhantomDashCam]

Playing devil's advocate for a minute:

Wouldn't moving Sochan in a package for Lauri be a shift in Defensive prognostication the team seems to be building towards (especially after drafting Castle)?
ie. Switching 1 through 4 with Wemby as the Utimate bailout, roaming big?

1746257459855925485

I can see the argument on both sides - A Defensive-Utilitarian role player vs. Offensive All-Star.

Obviously the Spurs need shooting and offensive firepower around Wemby but wouldn't the Spurs rather gamble with picks rather than
a budding defensive specialist?

1777345762151547017

[benefactor]

He comes to the Spurs knowing that this is his future. He knows he's going to sign. The Spurs don't make the trade unless both parties are agreed on this level.

[Chinook]

So assuming the deal is Graham, Johnson, Sochan and X picks for Mark

That would put the Spurs at about $20.4 Million for 12 players and Mamu's hold. If the Spurs are legit targeting DeRozan, you'd think that would be plenty of space to sign him. Then they'd have to room exception, which I've been using on Osman for convenience

Paul, Jones, Wesley
Vassell, Castle, Branham
DeRozan, Champagnie, Cissoko
Markkanen, Osman, Mamukelashvili
Wembanyama, Collins, Bassey

So two spots open with the room exception outstanding.

To me, that bench needs a ton of help. The starting lineup also have massive "too many cooks in the kitchen" vibes. Moving DeRozan to the bench and bringing up Castle helps with both, though Jones and Collins being shaky shooters means the bench could have spacing issues as well. If we're talking about a one-year deal for DMDR or a team option in the second year, I think it might be a pretty decent experiment that probably has a second year in it if things look promising but could easily tech into a continued rebuild if things fall apart.

[scott]

I know all this. He agrees to the extension when the time comes. What makes you think it won't work out here? He is literally a perfect fit.

Yeah, there is always the risk that it doesn't work out and the player doesn't extend. That risk existed when Toronto traded for Jak, Indy traded for Siakam and NYK traded for OG, but those players still extended with those teams because the trades played out exactly how both sides expected it to. This is just a higher stakes version of those instances.

What would cause Lauri to not want to extend should be traded here is that Pop completely loses his mind and does something like play Sochan at PG for 82 games while having Lauri play a 15-min off the bench guy. Yeah, in that scenario, Lauri is gonna say "fuck you idiots" and walk away. I have plenty to criticize Pop for, but I don't think he's a complete lunatic in that sort of way.

It's fine to consider the risk that Lauri doesn't extend, but you actually have to game out the scenarios where that happens, which involves the team and the player/agent chatting with each other before a deal is commenced. If you get the sense he's a closet psychopath or prima donna, then you don't do the deal. You definitely don't due the deal blindly and just hope for the best. There is due diligence involved.

Anyone want to do a bet that if Lauri is traded, he will resign with the team that trades for him? I'm extremely confident in that.

[exstatic]

I know all this. He agrees to the extension when the time comes. What makes you think it won't work out here? He is literally a perfect fit.

I think he’ll work great, I’m just opposed to throwing a pick bag at an ending contract. Players word is worth spit if something else comes up.