"Muh Sweden."

[tholdren]

Coronavirus: Sweden's Tegnell admits too many died

Sweden's controversial decision not to impose a strict lockdown in response to the Covid-19 pandemic

led to too many deaths,

the man behind the policy, Anders Tegnell, has acknowledged.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-52903717 (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-52903717)

although he emphasised that "does not disqualify our strategy as a whole".

[tholdren]

However, he was unclear what Sweden should have done differently and at a press conference later on Wednesday later he underlined that "we basically still think that is the right strategy for Sweden".

[boutons_deux]

However, he was unclear what Sweden should have done differently and at a press conference later on Wednesday later he underlined that "we basically still think that is the right strategy for Sweden".

how can he defend the excessive number dead Swedes compared to neighboring countries that went full lockdown and social distancing?

He can't. He's simply defending his negligent manslaughter / reckless endangerment bullshit

[RandomGuy]

Not really a conspiracy. Youre just not intelligent enough to understand the problem with the lagging and reporting.

You do unerstand that the cases and the fatalities released per day, don't all happen that day, right?

Didn't say it was a conspiracy. Please don't lie. I said you can stand in the same corner as the morons that argue that we didn't land in the moon. They can't back their statements up either, and dodge questions dishonestly, just like you do.

Why do you have to lie to make your case?

[tholdren]

how can he defend the excessive number dead Swedes compared to neighboring countries that went full lockdown and social distancing?

He can't. He's simply defending his negligent manslaughter / reckless endangerment bullshit

Swedens death all cause is the second lowest in 5 years during flu season. Compare Sweden to Belgium and come back.

[tholdren]

Didn't say it was a conspiracy. Please don't lie. I said you can stand in the same corner as the morons that argue that we didn't land in the moon. They can't back their statements up either, and dodge questions dishonestly, just like you do.

Why do you have to lie to make your case?

You were wrong. And you dont understand how lag impacts trendline. Not intelligent of you

[RandomGuy]

You were wrong. And you dont understand how lag impacts trendline. Not intelligent of you

:jack

Not source data. Still. It's like you dont' have any. :lol

You still suck at this.

[tholdren]

:jack

Not source data. Still. It's like you dont' have any. :lol

You still suck at this.

Understanding lag is the only data source you need.

Or

Do you believe that daily cases and fatalities only occurred in the last 24 hrs?

[RandomGuy]

Understanding lag is the only data source you need.

Or

Do you believe that daily cases and fatalities only occurred in the last 24 hrs?

No, I do not. That is silly.

Seems I do understand after all. Kind of contradicts your statement right there.

[tholdren]

No, I do not. That is silly.

Seems I do understand after all. Kind of contradicts your statement right there.

hmmm so how does that data reported effect the trend and the perception of infections?

[RandomGuy]

hmmm so how does that data reported effect the trend and the perception of infections?

What data, specifically? Need to understand what you mean to answer question meaningfully.

[tholdren]

What data, specifically? Need to understand what you mean to answer question meaningfully.

the daily cases and the daily fatalities. If they are not reported on the actual date of death or the actual onset of infection what do you think that does to the trend and the perception of infection or fatalties?

[RandomGuy]

the daily cases and the daily fatalities. If they are not reported on the actual date of death or the actual onset of infection what do you think that does to the trend and the perception of infection or fatalties?

Discussion, and reasoning over chest thumping. Thank you.

"Daily cases" become data points that indicate "the trend". Individually they may or may not be 100% accurate, but such lags, when taken as larger populations get smoothed out in the overall data. I see this all the time when auditing accounting records and financial statements. A "snapshot" balance sheet has within it the baked in inaccuracy of a bookkeeping lag, i.e. the time between a transaction and the time that transaction is recorded. This aspect is similar to reported losses to insurance companies. People who deal with that data know there is a reporting lag. This lag is accounted for and often estimated to adjust reserves accordingly to get a more accurate reflection of true loss position. So yeah, I understand the concept of lags in reporting.

As for what it does to "perception" that is a much broader question, which would require you to expand it a bit, as I am not entirely sure I understand what you mean.

Your turn:

Is it possible for data to be useful even with baked in inaccuracies? Yes or no.

or if you prefer:

Can you draw meaningful conclusions from data if you know it is in some way inaccurate, if you have a reasonable idea on how it is inaccurate?

[tholdren]

Discussion, and reasoning over chest thumping. Thank you.

"Daily cases" become data points that indicate "the trend". Individually they may or may not be 100% accurate, but such lags, when taken as larger populations get smoothed out in the overall data. I see this all the time when auditing accounting records and financial statements. A "snapshot" balance sheet has within it the baked in inaccuracy of a bookkeeping lag, i.e. the time between a transaction and the time that transaction is recorded. This aspect is similar to reported losses to insurance companies. People who deal with that data know there is a reporting lag. This lag is accounted for and often estimated to adjust reserves accordingly to get a more accurate reflection of true loss position. So yeah, I understand the concept of lags in reporting.

As for what it does to "perception" that is a much broader question, which would require you to expand it a bit, as I am not entirely sure I understand what you mean.

Your turn:

Is it possible for data to be useful even with baked in inaccuracies? Yes or no.

or if you prefer:

Can you draw meaningful conclusions from data if you know it is in some way inaccurate, if you have a reasonable idea on how it is inaccurate?

No, there is no reasonable conclusion to be made utilizing inaccurate data. Could you imagine having an experiment peer reviewed and published using inaccurate data? Nope. Neither can anyone else who understands science.

The perception is, using lagged data, extends the "pandemic" and increases fear. Not to mention it distorts the trend and makes it less steep. Again you don't get any accurate trends out of using unreliable and invalid data. The cdc even knows this, why they try to sell you on the trendline.

[RandomGuy]

No, there is no reasonable conclusion to be made utilizing inaccurate data. Could you imagine having an experiment peer reviewed and published using inaccurate data? Nope. Neither can anyone else who understands science.

Wrong. I gave two concrete examples of real world ways in which inaccurate data can be used to draw meaningful conclusions.

Financial balance sheets.

Insurance losses.

So the provable answer is "yes, it is possible to draw reasonable conclusions based on inaccurate data". All financial balancesheets of almost every company everywhere includes within them such inaccuracies, and hundreds of trillions of dollars of financial transactions are still made based on that inaccurate data.

Further your statement regarding peer reviewed science is wrong. If data is predictably inaccurate, you can adjust for that, and get a meaningful data set. (edit)A good example is when you use an instrument with a known distortion, such as a tared scale for weight.-RG (/edit)

I see this all the time when I read studies and drill down into the underlying datasets.

You may benefit from a bit of reading here.
Predictably inaccurate: The prevalence and perils of bad big data
https://www2.deloitte.com/us/en/insights/deloitte-review/issue-21/analytics-bad-data-quality.html

The very existence of confidence intervals in statistics demonstrates that inaccuracy is baked into the scientific process.

Beware of sweeping statements.

[tholdren]

Wrong. I gave two concrete examples of real world ways in which inaccurate data can be used to draw meaningful conclusions.

Financial balance sheets.

Insurance losses.

So the provable answer is "yes, it is possible to draw reasonable conclusions based on inaccurate data". All financial balancesheets of almost every company everywhere includes within them such inaccuracies, and hundreds of trillions of dollars of financial transactions are still made based on that inaccurate data.

Further your statement regarding peer reviewed science is wrong. If data is predictably inaccurate, you can adjust for that, and get a meaningful data set. (edit)A good example is when you use an instrument with a known distortion, such as a tared scale for weight.-RG (/edit)

I see this all the time when I read studies and drill down into the underlying datasets.

You may benefit from a bit of reading here.
Predictably inaccurate: The prevalence and perils of bad big data
https://www2.deloitte.com/us/en/insights/deloitte-review/issue-21/analytics-bad-data-quality.html

The very existence of confidence intervals in statistics demonstrates that inaccuracy is baked into the scientific process.

Beware of sweeping statements.

No you said that the lag gets smoothed out over time. Thats got nothing to do with making or continuing policy by using daily inaccuracies. Try again

[tholdren]

Wrong. I gave two concrete examples of real world ways in which inaccurate data can be used to draw meaningful conclusions.

Financial balance sheets.

Insurance losses.

So the provable answer is "yes, it is possible to draw reasonable conclusions based on inaccurate data". All financial balancesheets of almost every company everywhere includes within them such inaccuracies, and hundreds of trillions of dollars of financial transactions are still made based on that inaccurate data.

Further your statement regarding peer reviewed science is wrong. If data is predictably inaccurate, you can adjust for that, and get a meaningful data set. (edit)A good example is when you use an instrument with a known distortion, such as a tared scale for weight.-RG (/edit)

I see this all the time when I read studies and drill down into the underlying datasets.

You may benefit from a bit of reading here.
Predictably inaccurate: The prevalence and perils of bad big data
https://www2.deloitte.com/us/en/insights/deloitte-review/issue-21/analytics-bad-data-quality.html

The very existence of confidence intervals in statistics demonstrates that inaccuracy is baked into the scientific process.

Beware of sweeping statements.

lol see it all the time in published science. No. You see limitations based on irbs decision to exclude irrelevant data. Again this is not an insurance scam.

https://twitter.com/boriquagato/status/1267830876823384065?s=09

[RandomGuy]

No you said that the lag gets smoothed out over time. Thats got nothing to do with making or continuing policy by using daily inaccuracies. Try again

By smoothing out I mean:

If you have a bookkeeping lag that you can reasonably estimate to be, say 30 days, and you do monthly balance sheets, which are snapshots in time, for five years, you can know that the underlying trend is valid. the 30 days of lagging transaction for month 1 are included in month 2's sheet, and so on.

Over those 60 periods the results of that 30 day lag becomes smaller and smaller relative to the larger dataset, which is the collection of balance sheets.

With enough data, you can estimate how much that lag effects your financials. "based on five years of data our 30 days lag will look like X dollars in these line items". Large variances from averages are uncommon, so you can estimate based on past experience what those known inaccuracies are, and be expected to be within a small margin most of the time.

This is the "confidence interval" for statistics by the way.

That is what I mean about "smoothed out" over time. Lags, once they can be measured and known, can be factored in.

[ChumpDumper]

lol see it all the time in published science. No. You see limitations based on irbs decision to exclude irrelevant data. Again this is not an insurance scam.

https://twitter.com/boriquagato/status/1267830876823384065?s=09

1268155770325078016

Sounds familiar.

[RandomGuy]

lol see it all the time in published science. No. You see limitations based on irbs decision to exclude irrelevant data. Again this is not an insurance scam.

https://twitter.com/boriquagato/status/1267830876823384065?s=09

What are the time periods reflected by the bars in that graph? i.e. how long of a time period does that data represent and when is the cutoff?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EZg6riYU8AMv5gO?format=png&name=900x900

(ignoring the obvious typo in his X axis labels)-RG

[RandomGuy]

1268155770325078016

Sounds familiar.


It became apparent during the thread he was cherrypicking and making up sources.

Eventually when i pushed him on sources he blocked me.

Indeed.

Critical thinking time. Hint: http://www.whatweekisit.org/

[RandomGuy]

..

[tholdren]

By smoothing out I mean:

If you have a bookkeeping lag that you can reasonably estimate to be, say 30 days, and you do monthly balance sheets, which are snapshots in time, for five years, you can know that the underlying trend is valid. the 30 days of lagging transaction for month 1 are included in month 2's sheet, and so on.

Over those 60 periods the results of that 30 day lag becomes smaller and smaller relative to the larger dataset, which is the collection of balance sheets.

With enough data, you can estimate how much that lag effects your financials. "based on five years of data our 30 days lag will look like X dollars in these line items". Large variances from averages are uncommon, so you can estimate based on past experience what those known inaccuracies are, and be expected to be within a small margin most of the time.

This is the "confidence interval" for statistics by the way.

That is what I mean about "smoothed out" over time. Lags, once they can be measured and known, can be factored in.

Lol large variances from the average. You can't get a daily average from this. You can only get a reported average lol. Swing and a miss.....

[tholdren]

Why did Denmark and Finland have fewer deaths compared to Sweden?

Finland doesn't count ltc facility deaths.... lol just like i said shouldnt count... and they only count deaths to covid that are positives and die from a complication of covid.... a majority of swedens deaths came from ltc

Remember when your argument saying ltc deaths should be counted... why doesn't finland believe you?

[ChumpDumper]

Finland doesn't count ltc facility deaths.... lol just like i said shouldnt count... and they only count deaths to covid that are positives and die from a complication of covid.... a majority of swedens deaths came from ltc

Remember when your argument saying ltc deaths should be counted... why doesn't finland believe you?Hey, someone finally gave you an answer.

Is your claim Finland's deaths would be on par with Sweden's if they counted those?

[ChumpDumper]

Finland doesn't count ltc facility deaths.... lol just like i said shouldnt count... and they only count deaths to covid that are positives and die from a complication of covid.... a majority of swedens deaths came from ltc

Remember when your argument saying ltc deaths should be counted... why doesn't finland believe you?OK, let's take out ltc deaths from Sweden.

The Swedish Public Health Agency told the BBC that 48.9% of deaths were care home residents up to and including 14 May.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-52704836

Let's round it up to 50%. That'll take Sweden's deaths per million down to 225.

Finland's is 58.

Why is Sweden's number so much higher?

[tholdren]

OK, let's take out ltc deaths from Sweden.

The Swedish Public Health Agency told the BBC that 48.9% of deaths were care home residents up to and including 14 May.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-52704836

Let's round it up to 50%. That'll take Sweden's deaths per million down to 225.

Finland's is 58.

Why is Sweden's number so much higher?

It doesnt work that way, Mr Kansas. You cant just divide by 2. Lol at you. They collect the death stats completely different.

But what you are saying is no lockdown sweden is far and away better than lockdown usa and UK and Spain and Italy and Belgium..... lol you

[ChumpDumper]

It doesnt work that way, Mr Kansas. You cant just divide by 2. Lol at you. They collect the death stats completely different. I took out all the deaths you were whining about. Where would you like to move your goalpost to next?

Let me know.

[tholdren]

It doesnt work that way, Mr Kansas. You cant just divide by 2. Lol at you. They collect the death stats completely different.

But what you are saying is no lockdown sweden is far and away better than lockdown usa and UK and Spain and Italy and Belgium..... lol you

[ChumpDumper]

:cryYou're changing the subject again. You lost. lol science

You got beat with your own argument.

Let me know when you've moved the goalpost again, OK?

[tholdren]

You're changing the subject again. You lost. lol science

You got beat with your own argument.

Let me know when you've moved the goalpost again, OK?

You tried to just divide deaths by 2. Lol math wizard

[ChumpDumper]

You tried to just divide deaths by 2. Lol math wizardI took out more than what Sweden said was it's percentage of deaths in LTCs. If you'd like me to use 48.9% I can. It doesn't get better for you.

[tholdren]

I took out more than what Sweden said was it's percentage of deaths in LTCs. If you'd like me to use 48.9% I can. It doesn't get better for you.
Doesn't matter to me.... finland doesn't count those
and they only count deaths to covid that are positives and die from a complication of covid.

Seems like you've encountered countries who count covid death differently. That's problematic. And since finlands process is exponentially more strict than sweden, who didn't lock down, its almost like saying you are comparing apples to oranges... lol you

[ChumpDumper]

Doesn't matter to me.... finland doesn't count thoseThat's why I took out Sweden's since they said exactly how many there were.

:lol you can't even follow your own argument. You're so lost.

[tholdren]

Doesn't matter to me.... finland doesn't count those
and they only count deaths to covid that are positives and die from a complication of covid.

Seems like you've encountered countries who count covid death differently. That's problematic. And since finlands process is exponentially more strict than sweden, who didn't lock down, its almost like saying you are comparing apples to oranges... lol you

[ChumpDumper]

:crylol you lost

[tholdren]

lol you lost

Not even close. You asked why 2 countries, that count covid deaths 2 completely different ways, have different death rates. I now see why you don't understand the math

[ChumpDumper]

Not even close. You asked why 2 countries, that count covid deaths 2 completely different ways, have different death rates. I now see why you don't understand the mathI took from Sweden's total the same category of deaths you say Finland doesn't count.

And you still can't understand it.

lol you don't understand that math. You lose.

[tholdren]

I took from Sweden's total the same category of deaths you say Finland doesn't count.

And you still can't understand it.

lol you don't understand that math. You lose.

Do you not understand that even if you take out those people, finland has a much more strict requirement to attribute to a covid death than sweden..... you cannot compare the death rates. But again you're losing.

[ChumpDumper]

Do you not understand that even if you take out those people, finland has a much more strict requirement to attribute to a covid death than sweden..... Tell me where you want to move the goalpost next.

[tholdren]

Tell me where you want to move the goalpost next.

There's no goalpost to move. You tried to be smart. Asked why the deat rates are higher in sweden. And the answer is sweden does not tabulate covid deaths the way finland does. I win

[ChumpDumper]

There's no goalpost to move. You tried to be smart. Asked why the deat rates are higher in sweden. And the answer is sweden does not tabulate covid deaths the way finland does. I winI took out the deaths for Sweden that you say Finland doesn't count -- i.e, your goalpost -- and Sweden is still like 5 times worse.

Where do you want to move the goalpost next?

[tholdren]

I took out the deaths for Sweden that you say Finland doesn't count -- i.e, your goalpost -- and Sweden is still like 5 times worse.

Where do you want to move the goalpost next?

You must not understand that finland doesn't count covid deaths like sweden. In addition to not counting nursing homes, which you still are avoiding...
Finland requires you to test positive for covid AND die from complications of covid to be counted as a death.

So when you ask the same question over and over, the answer is the same. You cannot compare death rates based on two different methods of counting.

I win again

[ChumpDumper]

You must not understand that finland doesn't count covid deaths like sweden. In addition to not counting nursing homes, which you still are avoiding...
Finland requires you to test positive for covid AND die from complications of covid to be counted as a death. So that's where you want to move the goalpost.

You really think that will even things out?

lol

[DMC]

OK, let's take out ltc deaths from Sweden.

The Swedish Public Health Agency told the BBC that 48.9% of deaths were care home residents up to and including 14 May.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-52704836

Let's round it up to 50%. That'll take Sweden's deaths per million down to 225.

Finland's is 58.

Why is Sweden's number so much higher?

Sweden is lower than Colorado. NY is 1500+ per 1M. Why is NY so much higher than Sweden?

[DMC]

You must not understand that finland doesn't count covid deaths like sweden. In addition to not counting nursing homes, which you still are avoiding...
Finland requires you to test positive for covid AND die from complications of covid to be counted as a death.

So when you ask the same question over and over, the answer is the same. You cannot compare death rates based on two different methods of counting.

I win again

I tried to explain this shit to them weeks ago but they weren't having it. Grade school science and stats experts here.

[ChumpDumper]

Sweden is lower than Colorado. NY is 1500+ per 1M. Why is NY so much higher than Sweden?:lol you're changing the subject as fast as possible too

I'm really on to something here.

[ChumpDumper]

I tried to explain this shit to them weeks ago but they weren't having it. Grade school science and stats experts here.Great, what do you think the REAL numbers are?

[DMC]

:lol you're changing the subject as fast as possible too

I'm really on to something here.

Why is one area that locked down higher than an area that didn't? You cherry picked a country to compare Sweden to but conveniently ignore that there are plenty similar sized regions with much higher ratios who actually did lock down.

You are on to something, a narrative. I just shit on it.

[ChumpDumper]

Why is one area that locked down higher than an area that didn't? You cherry picked a country to compare Sweden to but conveniently ignore that there are plenty similar sized regions with much higher ratios who actually did lock down.We've been talking about the country right next door.

I also brought up the one on its other side and the one about a mile across a body of water away.

We can stick with Finland though, if you're not afraid.

Why are Finland's numbers so much lower?

[DMC]

Great, what do you think the REAL numbers are?

The false dilemma again?

:lol

[ChumpDumper]

The false dilemma again?

:lolI know you won't even try.

Why are Finland's numbers so much lower than Sweden's?

[DMC]

The whole point of the lockdown was to flatten the curve, but the cases are just stretched out over time. So you're picking a point along the timeline and saying "ah ha! You have more deaths!" but Sweden's medical system wasn't overwhelmed. They did not need to flatten the curve.

It doesn't matter why random country A is different than random country B, but you'll cherry pick to suit your narrative as always. It's just as relevant to ask why NY is so much higher than Texas. Unless you can show Sweden locked down vs Sweden not locked down, and stretch that out over time to see the actual numbers instead of a cherry picked moment on the timeline, then you're comparing apples to Volvos.

[ChumpDumper]

The whole point of the lockdown was to flatten the curve, but the cases are just stretched out over time. So you're picking a point along the timeline and saying "ah ha! You have more deaths!" but Sweden's medical system wasn't overwhelmed. They did not need to flatten the curve.

It doesn't matter why random country A is different than random country B, but you'll cherry pick to suit your narrative as always. It's just as relevant to ask why NY is so much higher than Texas.Oh, your argument is that over time the same percentage of people will die no matter what any government does as long as the hospitals aren't overwhelmed?

Is that it? Nothing matters?

[hater]

LOL

https://twitter.com/TedhiLakeer/status/1268459353721278464?s=19

[tholdren]

Oh, your argument is that over time the same percentage of people will die no matter what any government does as long as the hospitals aren't overwhelmed?

Is that it? Nothing matters?
Weekly all cause death rates say yes for usa and sweden. But you already knew that because I told you.

[hater]

Called it

https://twitter.com/joshmich/status/1268522784692613120?s=19

[tholdren]

We've been talking about the country right next door.

I also brought up the one on its other side and the one about a mile across a body of water away.

We can stick with Finland though, if you're not afraid.

Why are Finland's numbers so much lower?

You still haven't addressed finlands difference in counting death.

1. You divided by 2 for the ltc facilities although bad math.

But

You didn't address

2. Finland requires deaths to test pos AND die from a complication.

This is different than sweden.

[RandomGuy]

Lol large variances from the average. You can't get a daily average from this. You can only get a reported average lol. Swing and a miss.....

"this" being? If you are referring to bookkeeping/reporting lags, you most definitely can. Your denial of this would surprise a lot of controllers and actuaries. :lol

[RandomGuy]

lol see it all the time in published science. No. You see limitations based on irbs decision to exclude irrelevant data. Again this is not an insurance scam.

https://twitter.com/boriquagato/status/1267830876823384065?s=09

What are the time periods reflected by the bars in that graph? i.e. how long of a time period does that data represent and when is the cutoff?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EZg6riYU8AMv5gO?format=png&name=900x900

(ignoring the obvious typo in his X axis labels)-RG

[tholdren]

"this" being? If you are referring to bookkeeping/reporting lags, you most definitely can. Your denial of this would surprise a lot of controllers and actuaries. :lol

Lol. Try this:
Open an account at the bank
Put 0 dollars in the account
Try to take out 20 dollars.
Then go back tomorrow deposit 40 dollars and ask why you couldn't take out 20 yesterday since you have a 20 dollar per day balance.

Or better yet put in 10 dollars and count the 10 dollars twice and ask why you don't have 20 dollars to take out of the account.

Similar manipulation with this data. Lagging and backlogged data only extends the impression that the virus is ongoing at x level.

[tholdren]

What are the time periods reflected by the bars in that graph? i.e. how long of a time period does that data represent and when is the cutoff?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EZg6riYU8AMv5gO?format=png&name=900x900

(ignoring the obvious typo in his X axis labels)-RG
Annually weeks 40 through 18 just like he said in the tweet, October to may.. you couldn't understand that? Never would have guessed.

[boutons_deux]

Sweden admits it fucked up but sees no need to change,aka, insanity

https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus-data-explorer?zoomToSelection=true&casesMetric=true&dailyFreq=true&perCapita=true&smoothing=7&country=DNK~FIN~NOR~SWE

[tholdren]

Sweden admits it fucked up but see no need to change,aka, insanity

https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus-data-explorer?zoomToSelection=true&casesMetric=true&dailyFreq=true&perCapita=true&smoothing=7&country=DNK~FIN~NOR~SWE
They didn't. They're just admitting what everyone should, they could have done better with ltc. Norway admits they lockdown over fear not science.. sorry you're wrong

[DMC]

Oh, your argument is that over time the same percentage of people will die no matter what any government does as long as the hospitals aren't overwhelmed?

Is that it? Nothing matters?

The point of the lockdown was to flatten the curve in the US so the medical care system wasn't overwhelmed which would have led to more deaths. If Sweden's medical care system wasn't overwhelmed, what would be the point of their lockdown?

:lol another narrative hijack attempt thwarted

tick tock...

[DMC]

Early on, as I stated back then, the process moved from scientific method to political virus death count world olympics. Posts even on this forum are an excellent example of how the narrative moved from collective efforts to use science to combat the disease to finger pointing across the isle and across seas at numbers, and how data collection and reporting was adversely affected in the process due to political pressure. Reporting schemes that best suit individual governments and parties should not be compared to others, and they know this. If this was a scientific study with controlled standard reporting schemes from non-biased agents, the results could be compared more reasonably. Right now they are talking points. Deaths are now scores. China saw this early on as they were harshly being judged by the world due to numbers alone, and they simply stopped reporting accurate numbers and flat lined. As a result they dropped out of the discussion and over a billion people were dismissed with the wave of a virtual hand as if it was a tournament they dropped out of. The WHO was complicit.

[boutons_deux]

the point of the slowdown and social-distancing is to reduce disease and deaths.

typical rightwingnutjob assholes, who value $$$ over life, say

"let's just keep disease and deaths at a rate that the hospitals can handle" until ... ?

Business is much more important than deaths of 100Ks of humans

[DMC]

the point of the lowdown and social-distancing is to reduce disease and deaths.

typical rightwingnutjob assholes, who value $$$ over life, say

"let's just keep disease and deaths at a rate that the hospitals can handle" until ... ?

Business is much more important than deaths of 100Ks of humans

The term “flatten the curve,” originating from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (26), has been used widely to describe the effects of social distancing interventions. Our results highlight how the timing of social distancing interventions can affect the epidemic curve. In our model, interventions put in place and lifted early in the epidemic only delayed the epidemic and did not flatten the epidemic curve. When an intervention was put in place later, we noted a flattening of the epidemic curve. Our results showed that the effectiveness of the intervention will depend on the ratio of susceptible, infected, and recovered persons in the population at the beginning of the intervention. Therefore, an accurate estimate of the number of current and recovered cases is crucial for evaluating possible interventions. As of April 2, 2020, the United States had performed 3,825 tests for SARS-CoV-2 per 1 million population (27). By comparison, Italy had performed 9,829 tests/1 million population (27). Expanding testing capabilities in all affected countries is critical to slowing and controlling the pandemic.

[tholdren]

the point of the lowdown and social-distancing is to reduce disease and deaths.

typical rightwingnutjob assholes, who value $$$ over life, say

"let's just keep disease and deaths at a rate that the hospitals can handle" until ... ?

Business is much more important than deaths of 100Ks of humans

The original modeler admitted that these deaths would happen quickly regardless of covid. I.e. this is not a concern of fatality for those who are not experiencing end of life health issues. That sums it up.

[DMC]

Boutons, bitches about the acts taken to recover economically then posts incessantly about the economy. You cannot have your cake and eat it too.

[DMC]

So you're saying South Korea is hiding say 7700 COVID-19 deaths?

Didn't seem believable about another country did it? Suddenly is believable about our own.

[baseline bum]

Didn't seem believable about another country did it? Suddenly is believable about our own.

Because there is no fucking difference from aggressive testing and contact tracing vs doing nothing and saying it's a Democratic hoax.

[DMC]

Because there is no fucking difference from aggressive testing and contact tracing vs doing nothing and saying it's a Democratic hoax.
And you just took their word for it.

[baseline bum]

And you just took their word for it.

No one could have handled the pandemic better than Trump.

[Play Boban]

bush lied the economy died tbh

[DMC]

No one could have handled the pandemic better than Trump.
North Korea obviously did they have zero deaths.

[baseline bum]

North Korea obviously did they have zero deaths.

Anyone who has a better response to COVID than our Dear Leader is just lying. No one could have done better than Bunker Bitch.

[RandomGuy]

Annually weeks 40 through 18 just like he said in the tweet, October to may.. you couldn't understand that? Never would have guessed.

I understand perfectly. I am merely walking you through some basic critical thinking for data analysis, something I am an expert in.

October through first week of May.This disease did not break in October in any meaningful way.

Why limit yourself to the flu season data for something that is not conforming to flu season patterns?

Why use this metric rather than that of a whole year?

If you exclude the most recent month, that happens to have the most deaths, how might that affect your conclusion about the severity of the disease?

Would not a better comparison be take 30 weeks of data from the start of the outbreak in that country?

[tholdren]

October through first week of May.

Why limit yourself to the flu season data for something that is not conforming to flu season patterns?

This disease did not break in October in any meaningful way.

Wow you are not smart. Coronaviruses are seasonal. Again why you do not understand. Lol your analysis.

[RandomGuy]

Wow you are not smart. Coronaviruses are seasonal. Again why you do not understand. Lol your analysis.

I understand perfectly. I am merely walking you through some basic critical thinking for data analysis, something I am an expert in.

October through first week of May.This disease did not break in October in any meaningful way.

Why limit yourself to the flu season data for something that is not conforming to flu season patterns?

Why use this metric rather than that of a whole year?

If you exclude the most recent month, that happens to have the most deaths, how might that affect your conclusion about the severity of the disease?

Would not a better comparison be take 30 weeks of data from the start of the outbreak in that country?

[RandomGuy]

Critical thinking or :jack

I expect :jack because that is the lazy way to go. Conservatives in general are lazy thinkers. They share this with conspiratards like Cosmored.

[tholdren]

I understand perfectly. I am merely walking you through some basic critical thinking for data analysis, something I am an expert in.

October through first week of May.This disease did not break in October in any meaningful way.

Why limit yourself to the flu season data for something that is not conforming to flu season patterns?

Why use this metric rather than that of a whole year?

If you exclude the most recent month, that happens to have the most deaths, how might that affect your conclusion about the severity of the disease?

Would not a better comparison be take 30 weeks of data from the start of the outbreak in that country?

lololol you dont understand coronavirus is seasonal. No excess deaths during that time. Lol you

[RandomGuy]

Wow you are not smart. Coronaviruses are seasonal. Again why you do not understand. Lol your analysis.

Past Coronaviruses have been seasonal.

What study do you have that supports the conclusion that this one is?
If so what is it's "Season"?

Science or :jack

[RandomGuy]

lololol you dont understand coronavirus is seasonal. No excess deaths during that time. Lol you

So you avoided all the critical thinking questions, in favor of more self-congratulatory masturbation. more :jack.

[RandomGuy]

Wow you are not smart. Coronaviruses are seasonal. Again why you do not understand. Lol your analysis.

https://neilkakkar.com/assets/images/dunning-kruger-2.jpg

:lol your derision, poster-boy.

If you can't show any science to support your position, the conclusion that you belong on the left side of the graph... is pretty obvious.

[RandomGuy]

Coronaviruses are seasonal. .. Lol your analysis.


So in summary:
For the novel coronavirus SARS-CoV-2, we have reason to expect that like other betacoronaviruses, it may transmit somewhat more efficiently in winter than summer, though we don’t know the mechanism(s) responsible. The size of the change is expected to be modest, and not enough to stop transmission on its own. Based on the analogy of pandemic flu, we expect that SARS-CoV-2, as a virus new to humans, will face less immunity and thus transmit more readily even outside of the winter season. Changing seasons and school vacation may help, but are unlikely to stop transmission. Urgent for effective policy is to determine if children are important transmitters, in which case school closures may help slow transmission, or not, in which case resources would be wasted in such closures. Previously it was thought children were not easily infected with SARS-CoV-2. Recent evidence from Shenzhen suggests that children may be infected and shed detectable virus at about the same rate as adults — so now the only question is whether they transmit as readily. It seems likely the answer is yes, but no data as of this writing to my knowledge.
https://ccdd.hsph.harvard.edu/will-covid-19-go-away-on-its-own-in-warmer-weather/

:lmao tholdren

I guess I know which end of hte graph to put you on. Welcome to Mount Stupid.

https://i0.wp.com/www.psychmechanics.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/Dunning-Kruger-effect-graph.png

[tholdren]

Past Coronaviruses have been seasonal.

What study do you have that supports the conclusion that this one is?
If so what is it's "Season"?

Science or :jack

Coronaviruses are "sharply" seasonal. Covid 19 following same curve. But you wouldn't know that because you can't understand daily reporting...

[RandomGuy]

Coronaviruses are "sharply" seasonal. Covid 19 following same curve. But you wouldn't know that because you can't understand daily reporting...

That isn't a study showing covid19 will be sharply seasonal. :lmao that is you :jack

My critical thinking questions remain, you snot-nosed, punk ass, poser.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EZg6riYU8AMv5gO?format=png&name=900x900

(ignoring the obvious typo in his X axis labels)-RG

Why limit yourself to the flu season data for something that is not conforming to flu season patterns?

Why use this metric rather than that of a whole year?

If you exclude the most recent month, that happens to have the most deaths, how might that affect your conclusion about the severity of the disease?

Would not a better comparison be take 30 weeks of data from the start of the outbreak in that country?

Science and reasoning or :jack.

I expect the latter.

[tholdren]

That isn't a study showing covid19 will be sharply seasonal. :lmao

My critical thinking questions remain, you chickenshit.

hy limit yourself to the flu season data for something that is not conforming to flu season patterns?

Why use this metric rather than that of a whole year?

If you exclude the most recent month, that happens to have the most deaths, how might that affect your conclusion about the severity of the disease?

Would not a better comparison be take 30 weeks of data from the start of the outbreak in that country?
Lol coronaviruses are proven to be sharply seasonal and yes, covid 19 is following the same curve.


Lol you melting down because you can't arrange the data and see the seasonality or the trend. You can only read about inaccurate daily counts and gossip. And name call. Lolololol

In terms of your other ignorant question. If covid was as bad as you say why does the graph show consistency in all cause fatalities. I.e where's all those extras?

Lol you dont know how to get that data. Lol.

[tholdren]

Lockdown caused more deaths than it saved, a Nobel laureate scientist said on Saturday, as he predicted the UK would emerge from Covid-19 within weeks.

Michael Levitt, a Stanford University professor who correctly predicted the initial trajectory of the pandemic, sent messages to Professor Neil Ferguson in March telling the influential government advisor he had over-estimated the potential death toll by "10 or 12 times".

The Imperial College professor's modelling, a major factor in the Government's apparent abandoning of a so-called herd-immunity policy, was part of an unnecessary "panic virus" which spread among global political leaders, Prof Levitt now tells the Telegraph.

[RandomGuy]

A: Snot-nosed, punk-ass posers do not answer direct questions.
and
B: Snot-nosed, punk-ass posers do not support their assertions when asked to do so.

thodren does not answer direct questions and does not support his assertions when asked to do so.

tholdren is therefore a punk-ass poser.

Quod Erat Demonstrandum

[ChumpDumper]

You still haven't addressed finlands difference in counting death.

1. You divided by 2 for the ltc facilities although bad math.

But

You didn't address

2. Finland requires deaths to test pos AND die from a complication.

This is different than sweden.Show us your good math.

[RandomGuy]

Show us your good math.



A: Snot-nosed, punk-ass posers do not answer direct questions.
and
B: Snot-nosed, punk-ass posers do not support their assertions when asked to do so.

[tholdren]

A: Snot-nosed, punk-ass posers do not answer direct questions.
and
B: Snot-nosed, punk-ass posers do not support their assertions when asked to do so.

thodren does not answer direct questions and does not support his assertions when asked to do so.

tholdren is therefore a punk-ass poser.

Quod Erat Demonstrandum

Lol mad because you don't understand why daily reporting is ineffective and have no idea how to find the data. Lol


Name calling. You lost

[tholdren]

Show us your good math.
Lol divide by 2. Bwahahahhahahhahahahah

[RandomGuy]

Why limit yourself to the flu season data for something that is not conforming to flu season patterns?

Why use this metric rather than that of a whole year?

If you exclude the most recent month, that happens to have the most deaths, how might that affect your conclusion about the severity of the disease?

Would not a better comparison be take 30 weeks of data from the start of the outbreak in that country?


[lols and deflecting questions]





Coronaviruses are seasonal.


Past Coronaviruses have been seasonal.
What study do you have that supports the conclusion that this one is?
If so what is it's "Season"?


[re-states assertion, engages in chest-thumping].


A: Snot-nosed, punk-ass posers do not answer direct questions.
and
B: Snot-nosed, punk-ass posers do not support their assertions when asked to do so.

thodren does not answer direct questions and does not support his assertions when asked to do so.

tholdren is therefore a snot-nosed punk-ass poser.

Quod Erat Demonstrandum

[RandomGuy]

Lol mad because you don't understand why daily reporting is ineffective and have no idea how to find the data. Lol


Name calling. You lost

You lose the second you dodge direct questions and don't provide adequate support for your assertions.

Now, run along and change the subject again.

Boy.

[DMC]

Anyone who has a better response to COVID than our Dear Leader is just lying. No one could have done better than Bunker Bitch.

You don't want justice. You want Just I... ce (si)

[DMC]

A: Snot-nosed, punk-ass posers do not answer direct questions.
and
B: Snot-nosed, punk-ass posers do not support their assertions when asked to do so.

thodren does not answer direct questions and does not support his assertions when asked to do so.

tholdren is therefore a snot-nosed punk-ass poser.

Quod Erat Demonstrandum

Textbook internet pseudo intellectual house dad - changes others responses (yet quotes them anyhow) then finishes with some Googled latin phrase.

[tholdren]

You lose the second you dodge direct questions and don't provide adequate support for your assertions.

Now, run along and change the subject again.

Boy.

A. Covid 19 curve is depicting a completely seasonal complete with nose and tail.

B. Arrange the data by cases reported to the covid project. But you arent smart enough and too lazy to do so.

C. All case fatality... you still don't understand why this matters

D. Daily case and fatality... you still don't undrrstand that this is not accurate nor do you understand why that matters.

E. You keep name calling and asking the same questions that I continue to explain.... you are wrong and don't understand why which makes your questions and name calling even more hysterical

[baseline bum]

You don't want justice. You want Just I... ce (si)

No one had a better response to the pandemic than Bunker Bitch.

[ChumpDumper]

No one had a better response to the pandemic than Bunker Bitch.:cryThat's none of your business!:cry

[tholdren]

:cryThat's none of your business!:cry

Which is more insecure, using emojies or blocking?

[ChumpDumper]

Which is more insecure, using emojies or blocking?Your changing the subject and typing out emojis is more insecure.

[tholdren]

Your changing the subject and typing out emojis is more insecure.
Kansas

[DMC]

Eyeing reports that more Texans have died in the first three months of 2020 than the historical average, some experts question whether the death toll from the new coronavirus might be an undercount.

During January, February and March, 53,583 Texans died — 1,473 more than the average for that period in the previous six years, according to a USA TODAY Network analysis. Texas attributed 41 of the deaths to COVID-19 from Jan. 1 to March 31, with the first victim on March 17, according to the Texas Department of State Health Services.

Doctors told the USA TODAY Network that they could have missed patients who died of COVID-19 in February and early March because testing was more limited then.

“Early on, I think it’s entirely possible we were undercounting,” said Dr. Victor Test, a pulmonologist who has been treating patients with COVID-19 in an intensive care unit at the University Medical Center in Lubbock. “It’s possible that there were people who didn’t get a diagnosis with coronavirus that had it (but weren’t tested) because they didn’t have a travel or exposure history.”

Similar trends are seen nationwide.


The USA TODAY Network analyzed deaths since the fall of 2012 and found that mortality in the U.S. this year is higher than normal, outpacing deaths attributed to COVID-19 in states that have been hit hardest by the virus. For example, from March 22 to April 11, New York saw 14,403 more deaths than is normal. During that time, authorities there attributed 8,513 deaths, 59.1%, to COVID-19.

https://www.statesman.com/news/20200502/coronavirus-in-texas-death-data-suggest-covid-19-undercount-possible

This is from the beginning of fucking MAY.. :lol

:cry but the right is protecting Trump so reporting false numbers!

Lets keep sheltering the Cuomo prodigy. One day POTUS if it's done right.

[ChumpDumper]

Eyeing reports that more Texans have died in the first three months of 2020 than the historical average, some experts question whether the death toll from the new coronavirus might be an undercount.

During January, February and March, 53,583 Texans died — 1,473 more than the average for that period in the previous six years, according to a USA TODAY Network analysis. Texas attributed 41 of the deaths to COVID-19 from Jan. 1 to March 31, with the first victim on March 17, according to the Texas Department of State Health Services.

Doctors told the USA TODAY Network that they could have missed patients who died of COVID-19 in February and early March because testing was more limited then.

“Early on, I think it’s entirely possible we were undercounting,” said Dr. Victor Test, a pulmonologist who has been treating patients with COVID-19 in an intensive care unit at the University Medical Center in Lubbock. “It’s possible that there were people who didn’t get a diagnosis with coronavirus that had it (but weren’t tested) because they didn’t have a travel or exposure history.”

Similar trends are seen nationwide.


The USA TODAY Network analyzed deaths since the fall of 2012 and found that mortality in the U.S. this year is higher than normal, outpacing deaths attributed to COVID-19 in states that have been hit hardest by the virus. For example, from March 22 to April 11, New York saw 14,403 more deaths than is normal. During that time, authorities there attributed 8,513 deaths, 59.1%, to COVID-19.

https://www.statesman.com/news/20200502/coronavirus-in-texas-death-data-suggest-covid-19-undercount-possible

This is from the beginning of fucking MAY.. :lol

:cry but the right is protecting Trump so reporting false numbers!

Lets keep sheltering the Cuomo prodigy. One day POTUS if it's done right.WHATABOUT THE PEOPLE OTHER THAN THE ONES I WANT TO PROTECT?


I think the undercounting is likely nationwide.

What do you think?

[tholdren]

WHATABOUT THE PEOPLE OTHER THAN THE ONES I WANT TO PROTECT?


I think the undercounting is likely nationwide.

What do you think?

Lol yes or no

[DMC]

WHATABOUT THE PEOPLE OTHER THAN THE ONES I WANT TO PROTECT?


I think the undercounting is likely nationwide.

What do you think?

Talk to your echo chamber who insist the red states are exclusively hiding deaths to support Trump.

Chop chop

I called the issues months ago to the sound of jeers here, from that same echo chamber.

[ChumpDumper]

Talk to your echo chamber who insist the red states are exclusively hiding deaths to support Trump.

Chop chop

I called the issues months ago to the sound of jeers here, from that same echo chamber.I'm talking to you.

I think the undercounting is likely nationwide.

What do you think?

Chop chop.

[tholdren]

I'm talking to you.

I think the undercounting is likely nationwide.

What do you think?

Chop chop.
Undercounting deaths with covid not from covid 100 percent. Undrecounting people who died and were not in the 65 plus with a preexisting condition. Nope.
Undrecounting cases absolutely. But that is in your favor.

[DMC]

I'm talking to you.

I think the undercounting is likely nationwide.

What do you think?

Chop chop.

I don't care what you think.

[RandomGuy]

Your changing the subject and typing out emojis is more insecure.

:lol

[RandomGuy]

A. Covid 19 curve is depicting a completely seasonal complete with nose and tail.

B. Arrange the data by cases reported to the covid project. But you arent smart enough and too lazy to do so.

C. All case fatality... you still don't understand why this matters

D. Daily case and fatality... you still don't undrrstand that this is not accurate nor do you understand why that matters.

E. You keep name calling and asking the same questions that I continue to explain.... you are wrong and don't understand why which makes your questions and name calling even more hysterical

(shrugs)

I keep name calling, because you keep acting like a snot-nosed punk-ass poser, by dodging questions, and not providing sufficient data to back up your assertions when asked.

Happy to entertain any new and better data. The article on Michael Levitt was good.

If your position on anything is strong, you would not need to dodge questions, change the subject, and could provide evidence when asked.

You aren't giving me anything to really go on, but some lame-ass tweet with some cherry picked data.

Sorry man, I have no reason to take you at your word on anything, least of all what I do, or do not, understand. :lol

[ChumpDumper]

I don't care what you think.:lol DMC folds

[tholdren]

(shrugs)

I keep name calling, because you keep acting like a snot-nosed punk-ass poser, by dodging questions, and not providing sufficient data to back up your assertions when asked.

Happy to entertain any new and better data. The article on Michael Levitt was good.

If your position on anything is strong, you would not need to dodge questions, change the subject, and could provide evidence when asked.

You aren't giving me anything to really go on, but some lame-ass tweet with some cherry picked data.

Sorry man, I have no reason to take you at your word on anything, least of all what I do, or do not, understand. :lol

Just so we are clear that you don't understand the numbers. Thanks for admitting you were wrong.

[RandomGuy]

Just so we are clear that you don't understand the numbers. Thanks for admitting you were wrong.

Just so we are clear, you have no idea what I do, or don't understand.

You are the one who has to dodge questions and change the subject, not me. That is not what competent people who understand things do.

The only thing I am asking for is evidence to make informed decisions on. Evidence you have yet to provide. He who asserts, must prove.

[RandomGuy]

Coronaviruses are seasonal. .. Lol your analysis.


So in summary:
For the novel coronavirus SARS-CoV-2, we have reason to expect that like other betacoronaviruses, it may transmit somewhat more efficiently in winter than summer, though we don’t know the mechanism(s) responsible. The size of the change is expected to be modest, and not enough to stop transmission on its own. Based on the analogy of pandemic flu, we expect that SARS-CoV-2, as a virus new to humans, will face less immunity and thus transmit more readily even outside of the winter season. Changing seasons and school vacation may help, but are unlikely to stop transmission. Urgent for effective policy is to determine if children are important transmitters, in which case school closures may help slow transmission, or not, in which case resources would be wasted in such closures. Previously it was thought children were not easily infected with SARS-CoV-2. Recent evidence from Shenzhen suggests that children may be infected and shed detectable virus at about the same rate as adults — so now the only question is whether they transmit as readily. It seems likely the answer is yes, but no data as of this writing to my knowledge.
https://ccdd.hsph.harvard.edu/will-covid-19-go-away-on-its-own-in-warmer-weather/

:lmao tholdren

I guess I know which end of hte graph to put you on. Welcome to Mount Stupid.

https://i0.wp.com/www.psychmechanics.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/Dunning-Kruger-effect-graph.png

[RandomGuy]

Why limit yourself to the flu season data for something that is not conforming to flu season patterns?

Why use this metric rather than that of a whole year?

If you exclude the most recent month, that happens to have the most deaths, how might that affect your conclusion about the severity of the disease?

Would not a better comparison be take 30 weeks of data from the start of the outbreak in that country?


[lols and deflecting questions]





Coronaviruses are seasonal.


Past Coronaviruses have been seasonal.
What study do you have that supports the conclusion that this one is?
If so what is it's "Season"?


[re-states assertion, engages in chest-thumping].


A: Snot-nosed, punk-ass posers do not answer direct questions.
and
B: Snot-nosed, punk-ass posers do not support their assertions when asked to do so.

thodren does not answer direct questions and does not support his assertions when asked to do so.

tholdren is therefore a snot-nosed punk-ass poser.

Quod Erat Demonstrandum

[tholdren]

Just so we are clear, you have no idea what I do, or don't understand.

You are the one who has to dodge questions and change the subject, not me. That is not what competent people who understand things do.

The only thing I am asking for is evidence to make informed decisions on. Evidence you have yet to provide. He who asserts, must prove.
No I'm clear. I listed it above. And you obliged abcde.
I know you feel inadequate for being this poor at math. You will get better

[tholdren]

Seasonal coronavirus tailing off. Just like other seasonal coronaviruses.

[RandomGuy]

No I'm clear. I listed it above. And you obliged abcde.
I know you feel inadequate for being this poor at math. You will get better

meh

You had your chance to educate me, and to demonstrate your knowledge. You declined to do so, either out of laziness or incompetence, probably a mixture of both. Not my problem.

[tholdren]

meh

You had your chance to educate me, and to demonstrate your knowledge. You declined to do so, either out of laziness or incompetence, probably a mixture of both. Not my problem.
Abcde.... but you lied. I gave you the website to run the data. You just don't understand what your looking at. Hence your inability to logically reason.

Glad you found it imperative to address your shortcomings

[tholdren]

Redfield told lawmakers the U.S. is likely to have a "difficult time" during the fall and winter seasons as the coronavirus and flu circulate at the same time.

In April, Redfield first warned about the colder seasons, saying, "we're going to have to distinguish between which is flu and which is the coronavirus."

[tholdren]

Redfield told lawmakers the U.S. is likely to have a "difficult time" during the fall and winter seasons as the coronavirus and flu circulate at the same time.

In April, Redfield first warned about the colder seasons, saying, "we're going to have to distinguish between which is flu and which is the coronavirus."

Even the dumb cdc knows coronaviruses are seasonal

[tholdren]

Looks like Ifr going to drop more.

[tholdren]

New York times walkout. Uh oh.....

[RandomGuy]

Abcde.... but you lied. I gave you the website to run the data. You just don't understand what your looking at. Hence your inability to logically reason.

Glad you found it imperative to address your shortcomings

You gave me a tweet? Whadimiss?

Do you think your inability to answer direct questions and inability to provide source data when asked makes your assessment of my abilities more, or less credible?

[RandomGuy]

Even the dumb cdc knows coronaviruses are seasonal

So in summary:
For the novel coronavirus SARS-CoV-2, we have reason to expect that like other betacoronaviruses, it may transmit somewhat more efficiently in winter than summer, though we don’t know the mechanism(s) responsible. The size of the change is expected to be modest, and not enough to stop transmission on its own. Based on the analogy of pandemic flu, we expect that SARS-CoV-2, as a virus new to humans, will face less immunity and thus transmit more readily even outside of the winter season. Changing seasons and school vacation may help, but are unlikely to stop transmission. Urgent for effective policy is to determine if children are important transmitters, in which case school closures may help slow transmission, or not, in which case resources would be wasted in such closures. Previously it was thought children were not easily infected with SARS-CoV-2. Recent evidence from Shenzhen suggests that children may be infected and shed detectable virus at about the same rate as adults — so now the only question is whether they transmit as readily. It seems likely the answer is yes, but no data as of this writing to my knowledge.
https://ccdd.hsph.harvard.edu/will-covid-19-go-away-on-its-own-in-warmer-weather/

:lmao tholdren

Go ahead and fail to post a study that shows this one actually is now that has had any peer review. Snot-nosed, punk-ass poser.

[tholdren]

You gave me a tweet? Whadimiss?

Do you think your inability to answer direct questions and inability to provide source data when asked makes your assessment of my abilities more, or less credible?

Already answered them. You quoted me by using quotes you entered. So really you lied because you dont understand numbers you pretend to be able to understand. You tried to say the graph was mislabeled, which it wasn't, and just continue to look silly. Sorry your math skills are terrible.

[RandomGuy]

Already answered them. You quoted me by using quotes you entered. So really you lied because you dont understand numbers you pretend to be able to understand. You tried to say the graph was mislabeled, which it wasn't, and just continue to look silly. Sorry your math skills are terrible.

I didn't say the graph was mislabeled, I said there was an obvious typo.

You didn't see it. :rollin You suck at this.

[RandomGuy]

Already answered them. You quoted me by using quotes you entered. So really you lied because you dont understand numbers you pretend to be able to understand. You tried to say the graph was mislabeled, which it wasn't, and just continue to look silly. Sorry your math skills are terrible.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EZg6riYU8AMv5gO?format=png&name=900x900

X axis labels from left to right:

2007-8
2009-9
2009-10
2010-11
2011-12
2012-13
2013-14
2014-15
2015-16
2016-17
2017-18
2018-19
2019-20


Am I wrong here about the typo? Did the 2008-09 flu season stretch from the 40th week of 2009 backwards in time to the 18th week?

:rollin It was a moebius year that folded back in on itself according you? :rollin

[RandomGuy]

Do you think your inability to answer direct questions and inability to provide source data when asked makes your assessment of my abilities more, or less credible?


Already answered them. You quoted me by using quotes you entered. So really you lied because you dont understand numbers you pretend to be able to understand. You tried to say the graph was mislabeled, which it wasn't, and just continue to look silly. Sorry your math skills are terrible.

:rollin

[tholdren]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EZg6riYU8AMv5gO?format=png&name=900x900

X axis labels from left to right:

2007-8
2009-9
2009-10
2010-11
2011-12
2012-13
2013-14
2014-15
2015-16
2016-17
2017-18
2018-19
2019-20


Am I wrong here about the typo? Did the 2008-09 flu season stretch from the 40th week of 2009 backwards in time to the 18th week?

:rollin It was a moebius year that folded back in on itself according you? :rollin

Lol correcting grammar and not math. You do you math wizard

[tholdren]

What are the time periods reflected by the bars in that graph? i.e. how long of a time period does that data represent and when is the cutoff?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EZg6riYU8AMv5gO?format=png&name=900x900

(ignoring the obvious typo in his X axis labels)-RG

Remember this. You couldn't even read the graph.. lololo sp you deferring to spelling mistakes. Bwahahahha you bad with numbers man.

[RandomGuy]

You quoted me by using quotes you entered.

Just FYI, the quotes have links to the source quote. Anyone can see exactly how evasive and shitty you are at this.

Yes or no, are my summaries accurate?


Why limit yourself to the flu season data for something that is not conforming to flu season patterns?

Why use this metric rather than that of a whole year?

If you exclude the most recent month, that happens to have the most deaths, how might that affect your conclusion about the severity of the disease?

Would not a better comparison be take 30 weeks of data from the start of the outbreak in that country?


Lol coronaviruses are proven to be sharply seasonal and yes, covid 19 is following the same curve. [LOL and not a direct answer to any question-RG]


Lol you melting down because you can't arrange the data and see the seasonality or the trend. You can only read about inaccurate daily counts and gossip. And name call. Lolololol [LOL and not a direct answer to any question-RG]

In terms of your other ignorant question. If covid was as bad as you say why does the graph show consistency in all cause fatalities. I.e where's all those extras? [Deflecting question-RG]

Lol you dont know how to get that data. Lol.

My shorthand: lols and deflecting questions-RG





Coronaviruses are seasonal.


Past Coronaviruses have been seasonal.
What study do you have that supports the conclusion that this one is?
If so what is it's "Season"?


Coronaviruses are "sharply" seasonal. [restatement of assertion-RG] Covid 19 following same curve. But you wouldn't know that because you can't understand daily reporting...[chest thumping about how much smarter you think you are than I am-RG]

[My short-hand: re-states assertion, engages in chest-thumping-RG].

:rollin

Direct question:

Which of my characterizations are inaccurate and why?

[RandomGuy]

Lol correcting grammar and not math. You do you math wizard

I couldn't even get to the math because you don't answer questions honestly.

[RandomGuy]

Remember this. You couldn't even read the graph.. lololo sp you deferring to spelling mistakes. Bwahahahha you bad with numbers man.

What statement of mine most supports your assertion that I couldn't read the graph?

I expect more :jack.

[RandomGuy]

Do you think your inability to answer direct questions and inability to provide source data when asked makes your assessment of my abilities more, or less credible?


Lol correcting grammar and not math. You do you math wizard

:rollin

Do you think your inability to answer direct questions and inability to provide source data when asked makes your assessment of my abilities more, or less credible?

[SpursforSix]

https://media.tenor.com/images/326a22d639bbf0f0638a677eb9c7a64a/tenor.gif

[RandomGuy]

https://media.tenor.com/images/326a22d639bbf0f0638a677eb9c7a64a/tenor.gif

:lmao

Well played.

[SpursforSix]

:lmao

Well played.

It's the gifT that keeps on giving.

[tholdren]

:rollin

Do you think your inability to answer direct questions and inability to provide source data when asked makes your assessment of my abilities more, or less credible?

Lol deflection. Grammar p9lice deflectiion with 5 posts in a row. Lololololol you don't know.why daily cases or daily fatalities doesn't matter. Bwahahhahahahah can't read graphs. Lolololol

[RandomGuy]

https://media.tenor.com/images/326a22d639bbf0f0638a677eb9c7a64a/tenor.gif

Sorry man, I'm married. Not my thing anyway.

[Chucho]

It's the gifT that keeps on giving.

You'd get banned if you posted hardcore, gay porn gifs for derp and Chump, huh?

[tholdren]

Sorry man, I'm married. Not my thing anyway.
Just to be clear, you had no mathematical understanding of ifr or trend data so you deflect. Its okay to be ashamed. Your math analytics are terrible.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Just to be clear, you had no mathematical understanding of ifr or trend data so you deflect. Its okay to be ashamed. Your math analytics are terrible.

Not persuaded. Assertions without support are to be ignored

[tholdren]

Not persuaded. Assertions without support are to be ignored

There is only assertion of lockdown. Cdc added over 7k lagged cases over normal avg lag today. Lol those daily cases tho.

[tholdren]

:rollin

Do you think your inability to answer direct questions and inability to provide source data when asked makes your assessment of my abilities more, or less credible?
I did answer them.
You - why did you use that seasonal data
Me - coronaviruses have been proven to be sharply seasonal
You - what is your proof that covid 19 is seasonal its not following flu pattern
Me - it's seasonal curve of cases based on state reporting data.. it does follow a sharply seasonal curve look at the data
You - you misspelled something so its not seasonal....


As I have said before with daily rates daily fatalities and trends, you are not smart enough to chart the data so all you can do is use headline data inaccurately. See above.

You aren't good with numbers there's no shame in that, unless you gossip about the numbers like you know more than daily rates, which you don't, so it is a problem.

Until then I will be here to let you know how wrong you are.

[tholdren]

I did answer them.
You - why did you use that seasonal data
Me - coronaviruses have been proven to be sharply seasonal
You - what is your proof that covid 19 is seasonal its not following flu pattern
Me - it's seasonal curve of cases based on state reporting data.. it does follow a sharply seasonal curve look at the data
You - you misspelled something so its not seasonal....


As I have said before with daily rates daily fatalities and trends, you are not smart enough to chart the data so all you can do is use headline data inaccurately. See above.

You aren't good with numbers there's no shame in that, unless you gossip about the numbers like you know more than daily rates, which you don't, so it is a problem.

Until then I will be here to let you know how wrong you are.

[tholdren]

4400 backlogged this week and not current. Strategies

[hater]

:lmao sweden

Government drops their daily coronavirus briefings because all they have is bad news and mounting public criticism

:lmao herd immunity myth

They are fucked

Only 5% herd immunity and highesg death rate in the world

Poor stupid bastards

[hater]

Called it :tu

[boutons_deux]

Sweden still MUCH WORSE than the other 3

https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus-data-explorer?zoomToSelection=true&deathsMetric=true&dailyFreq=true&perCapita=true&smoothing=7&country=FIN~DNK~NOR~SWE

[tholdren]

Called it :tu

Called what? Panic from reading headlines?

[tholdren]

For reference sweden has a lower death per million than Michigan or Pennsylvania who utilized strict lockdowns

[tholdren]

For reference sweden has a lower death per million than Michigan or Pennsylvania who utilized strict lockdowns
Similar population

[tholdren]

For reference sweden has a lower death per million than Michigan or Pennsylvania who utilized strict lockdowns

I'm thought sweden would have negative population by now.....

[TimDunkem]

https://www.bluezones.com/2020/06/covid-19-straight-answers-from-top-epidemiologist-who-predicted-the-pandemic/


DB: There’s this strongly held view by some that we should follow a modified Sweden model. They point out that there’s all this death and pain and suffering from a collapsed economy. And that if we’re going to herd immunity and as long as the healthcare system can absorb the cases, we should just speed to herd immunity. What’s wrong with that thinking?

MIke Osterholm: First of all, the Sweden model no longer exists. It was a myth to begin with. And it now is even being heavily criticized within Sweden to the point where there’s actually a criminal investigation going on about what did or didn’t happen in their long-term care. Sweden has one of the highest death rates in the world in terms of number of people that have died per population. They have not advanced any meaningful way towards a herd immunity level and are not much higher than the United States is right now. And they recognize in retrospect that maybe they didn’t accomplish all that they thought they were going to.

The adjoining countries of Denmark, Finland, and Norway – who did go into more extensive lockdown activities — have kept their death rates significantly lower than Sweden has. And they’re bringing back the economy, very similar to Sweden is doing. So, I think that one of the problems we have is everybody seems to have a magic answer for what’s going on. And my response is that it might be a magic answer today, but let’s wait a week and see what happens. And that has happened time and time again. We’ve heard about how China was successful in tamping down that initial outbreak in Wuhan and throughout Hubei. But now we see they’re having a resurgence of infection with large parts of Wuhan now being tested again and other major outbreaks in China. So everyone may have a perfect solution today, but following my leaky bucket concept it may not be that way tomorrow at all.

[DMC]

I'm thought sweden would have negative population by now.....

It's a sad statement about the intelligence of the community here that folks keep using these comparative stats when so many countries listed are either not reporting at all or not testing/reporting thoroughly or accurately. The most honest will quite often be the worst offenders on paper, and the idiots with high BP and low IQ seem to latch onto it.

[ChumpDumper]

DMC and th:loldren still want to believe

[tholdren]

DMC and th:loldren still want to believe

Believe what? That swedens death rate with no lockdown is lower than states with similar population and strict lockdown?

That is a fact.

[DMC]

DMC and th:loldren still want to believe

Pithy 3rd person narrative quip from the Google expert.

[Spurtacular]

hater thinks Swedish NWOcrats are above the bull shit. :lmao

[tholdren]

https://www.bluezones.com/2020/06/covid-19-straight-answers-from-top-epidemiologist-who-predicted-the-pandemic/
Sweden had no model.... the us model was to lockdown to not overwhelm hospitals. Why are you still in lock down?

[DMC]

Called what? Panic from reading headlines?

Hater the panic porn creator.

[ChumpDumper]

Pithy 3rd person narrative quip from the Google expert.Jesus. Cry some more, pussy.

[FrostKing]

Sweden liberal viking

Not the sharpest Scandinavians

[tholdren]

For reference sweden has a lower death per million than Michigan or Pennsylvania who utilized strict lockdowns

just to recap.

[ChumpDumper]

th:loldren comparing Sweden to Pennsylvania and Michigan but not Norway or Finland.

[TimDunkem]

:lol th:lolldren

[tholdren]

th:loldren comparing Sweden to Pennsylvania and Michigan but not Norway or Finland.
Chumpdump doesn't understand why. Lol

[ChumpDumper]

Chumpdump doesn't understand why. LolI completely understand why you won't compare Sweden to Norway or Finland.

th:lolldren

[tholdren]

I completely understand why you won't compare Sweden to Norway or Finland.

th:lolldren

Lol ChumpDumper melting down when stringent lockdowns don't work. Lol

Sad

[ChumpDumper]

Lol ChumpDumper melting down when stringent lockdowns don't work. Lol

SadAll I did was laugh at you. You won't compare Sweden with Norway or Finland.

Why not?

[tholdren]

All I did was laugh at you. You won't compare Sweden with Norway or Finland.

Why not?

I told you months ago. Finland counts covid appropriately. Have to test positive and die from the virus. They do not collect and release data on mild or asymptomatic. Ifr lower than flu.

They openly admit they have lower cases than reported and are not concerned.

Recovery reported do not require a test.


Good luck. They do all of the things they should , it seems, with testing and reporting.

[ChumpDumper]

I told you months ago. Finland counts covid appropriately. Have to test positive and die from the virus. They do not collect and release data on mild or asymptomatic. Ifr lower than flu.

They openly admit they have lower cases than reported and are not concerned.

Recovery reported do not require a test.


Good luck. They do all of the things they should , it seems, with testing and reporting.So you know for a fact Sweden counts the same as Michigan and Pennsylvania?

Prove it.

[tholdren]

So you know for a fact Sweden counts the same as Michigan and Pennsylvania?

Prove it.
Lol you are now arguing my point. Lololololololol whoops you did a 180

[ChumpDumper]

Lol you are now arguing my point. Lololololololol whoops you did a 180Lol you are now arguing my point. Lololololololol whoops you shit on yourself.

Pennsylvania!

Not Norway or Denmark!

Look at muh Michigan!

lolololololololololololololololololololololololol

[tholdren]

Lol you are now arguing my point. Lololololololol whoops you shit on yourself.

Pennsylvania!
Lololol copying me again. Fine with me. You get more intelligent that way

[ChumpDumper]

Lololol copying me again. Fine with me. You get more intelligent that wayLololol you copied me by admitting your comparison is shit.

lolololololololololololololololololol

[tholdren]

Lololol you copied me by admitting your comparison is shit.

lolololololololololololololololololol
No I didn't. Bwahahahhahahahaha your logic failed you again. Beahahahhahahahahaha

[ChumpDumper]

No I didn'tBwahahahhahahahaha of course you did. You're just too stupid to understand it. Beahahahhahahahahaha

[tholdren]

Bwahahahhahahahaha of course you did. You're just too stupid to understand it. Beahahahhahahahahaha

Lol your whole point in this thread has been finland v sweden and you didn't know that they counted cases differently. Until I told you. You were flaunting finland

Now you are asking about how states count. Bwahahahhahahahahah

Your response to this is classic. The irony.

And the name calling. Bwahahhahahahahbahaha

Finland states they undercount the same way you have accused florida and texas for. Bwahahahahabhahahahahah

And you're calling names.

Oh man. This is excellent.

[tholdren]

Compare Sweden to Norway and Finland.

April 23. Lolololol

Lololilil

[tholdren]

Why do so many here believe the reports are accurate? Every country, every state, has different reporting schemes.

Using this type of data to try to prove a point is, for the most part, pointless. Otherwise China stopped it dead in it's tracks. Just look how the cases and deaths flat lined suddenly.

April 23

That stings

[ChumpDumper]

Lol your whole point in this thread has been finland v sweden and you didn't know that they counted cases differently. Until I told you. You were flaunting finlandI know no country or state counts exactly the same or even completely.

How about Norway?

Denmark?

And you never proved the states you compared to Sweden counted cases the same as Sweden.

You admitted the opposite.

th:lolldren

[tholdren]

Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

This is not a logical answer. I'll let you try again.

Logically speaking, why does South Korea have fewer cases and deaths per captia than the United States
-----------
My answer 4 weeks ago.

They aren't attributing death as a probable and using science?

[tholdren]

I know no country or state counts exactly the same or even completely.

How about Norway?

Denmark?

And you never proved the states you compared to Sweden counted cases the same as Sweden.

You admitted the opposite.

th:lolldren
Lolololol wiggling away. Keep up the explaining. Looking worse each time you try to avoid.

Hysterical

[ChumpDumper]

Lolololol wiggling away. Keep up the explaining. Looking worse each time you try to avoid.

HystericalLolololol th:lolldren shits himself whenever he is asked a question.

You never answer any questions and you never will.

Hysterical derpitude

[tholdren]

Lolololol th:lolldren shits himself whenever he is asked a question.

You never answer any questions and you never will.

Hysterical derpitude

Look at this little tantrum. Typical ChumpDumper. Getting called out for lying, being wrong, and now he's name calling and deflecting. Sad.

[ChumpDumper]

Look at this little tantrum. Typical ChumpDumper. Getting called out for lying, being wrong, and now he's name calling and deflecting. Sad.I called you out for not answering any questions and you spin off into your typical desperate distraction. Sad.

Just answer the questions.

[tholdren]

I called you out for not answering any questions and you spin off into your typical desperate distraction. Sad.

Just answer the questions.

Copying me again. Great idea. You get smarter each time you do.

[ChumpDumper]

Copying me again. Great idea. You get smarter each time you do.:lol you're still stonewalling

I called you out.

[DMC]

Damn, Chumpy getting raw dogged in here.

[ChumpDumper]

:lol DMC making another narrative

[TimDunkem]

:lol Imagine unironically teaming up with a mouth breather like th:lolldren because you don't like the posters he stalks.

[ChumpDumper]

:lol Imagine unironically teaming up with a mouth breather like th:lolldren because you don't like the posters he stalks.Help him with the usage of "imply" and "infer" and his derp-like rage will burn with the heat of a thousand suns and twice as long.

[DMC]

:lol Imagine unironically teaming up with a mouth breather like th:lolldren because you don't like the posters he stalks.

Imagine not having anything interesting to add to a discussion and holding up scorecards instead. I made my points ITT, they have proven to be astute observations and the nay sayers have left their shit behind as they flew the coop.

I like to talk shit with people here, back and forth, I don't take any of it seriously. But if I had to be dead honest, I'd swear some of you are borderline retarded.

[ChumpDumper]

Imagine not having anything interesting to add to a discussion and holding up scorecards instead. I made my points ITT, they have proven to be astute observations and the nay sayers have left their shit behind as they flew the coop.

I like to talk shit with people here, back and forth, I don't take any of it seriously. But if I had to be dead honest, I'd swear some of you are borderline retarded.DMC grades himself highly and has to get back at anyone who commented about him but he doesn't take any of it seriously.:lol

[DMC]

DMC grades himself highly and has to get back at anyone who commented about him but he doesn't take any of it seriously.:lol

And you speak in 3rd person as if you have any friends here.

[ChumpDumper]

And you speak in 3rd person as if you have any friends here.You do it quite often.

Who do you say are your friends here?

[TimDunkem]

And you speak in 3rd person as if you have any friends here.

:lol The irony. DMC projecting on to others yet again.

[DMC]

You do it quite often.

Who do you say are your friends here?

You respond within seconds, 24/7/365. I don't think a script would be as reliable as you at responding.

[DMC]

:lol The irony. DMC projecting on to others yet again.

This would be an interesting take if anyone gave a shit what you thought.

[TimDunkem]

This would be an interesting take if anyone gave a shit what you thought.

Likewise. Now go eat some rotel, fat hands.

[ChumpDumper]

You respond within seconds, 24/7/365. I don't think a script would be as reliable as you at responding.You don't take any of this seriously but you had to change the subject when you got tripped up by your own narrative.:lol

[TimDunkem]

In before he tells us how much he doesn't care...again. :lol

[tholdren]

:lol The irony. DMC projecting on to others yet again.

Imagine being so sad you get so emotional you have to name call on the internet. And post about how you pretended to have covid for sympathy lololokol

[DMC]

In before he tells us how much he doesn't care...again. :lol

In before..... when you've already posted multiple times in this thread. That doesn't make any fucking sense, par the course.

[DMC]

Imagine being so sad you get so emotional you have to name call on the internet. And post about how you pretended to have covid for sympathy lololokol

And your job is so shitty you can't get a fucking day off to go to the hospital without getting fired.

[DMC]

You don't take any of this seriously but you had to change the subject when you got tripped up by your own narrative.:lol

Responds in seconds to argue against my claim that he responds in seconds.

[tholdren]

TimDunkem said he had the virus and was posting for sympathy sad

[ChumpDumper]

Responds in seconds to argue against my claim that he responds in seconds.Still seriously trying to change the subject after getting shit on by your own narrative.

[tholdren]

Still seriously trying to change the subject after getting shit on by your own narrative.

Lol you argued that finland couldn't be compared to sweden because they test differently.. at the end if june ... after you have been told this since January. Lololololo

[ChumpDumper]

Lol you argued that finland couldn't be compared to sweden because they test differently.. at the end if june ... after you have been told this since January. LololololoYou argued that Sweden is just like Michigan and that COVID is the flu and 10k would die tops. Lololololol

[tholdren]

You argued that Sweden is just like Michigan and that COVID is the flu and 10k would die tops. Lololololol
Still wiggling to get out of the months long wrong on every coronavirus thread.

[ChumpDumper]

Still wiggling to get out of the months long wrong on every coronavirus thread.Yes, you are wiggling in your bunker.:lol

[tholdren]

Yes, you are wiggling in your bunker.:lol

are you copying me again. This is flattering.

[ChumpDumper]

are you copying me again. This is flattering.I didn't copy your cowering in a bunker for three months and I don't copy your lying in every post.:tu

[tholdren]

I didn't copy your cowering in a bunker for three months and I don't copy your lying in every post.:tu

Lol. I'm not the one who posted regarding the dangers of family gatherings. That was you

[ChumpDumper]

Lol. I'm not the one who posted regarding the dangers of family gatherings. That was you:lol you jumped in your bunker when I called you out on how the virus is spread.

You still haven't answered three months later.:rollin

[DarrinS]

:lol you jumped in your bunker when I called you out on how the virus is spread.

You still haven't answered three months later.:rollin


Hours and hours of your time. Every day. Sad

[tholdren]

:lol you jumped in your bunker when I called you out on how the virus is spread.

You still haven't answered three months later.:rollin
You lie again. I asked you, then you do your copying deflection asking the question that you were too afraid to answer. Lololo and you've been doing it for months. Again I'm flattered.

Lol your logic

[ChumpDumper]

You lie again. I asked youI answered.

You hid in your bunker.

[ChumpDumper]

Hours and hours of your time. Every day. SadDrunk Darrin checking in. Have another smoke.

[DMC]

Hours and hours of your time. Every day. Sad

He's got nothing but time.

[hater]

Sweden still hasnts reached the 1zt wave peak while sister countries are enjoying a nice lull before 2nd wave

https://twitter.com/Paul_Imanuelsen/status/1272995937250656256?s=19

[hater]

https://twitter.com/cassandra17lina/status/1275842522338799617?s=19

[Winehole23]

https://twitter.com/cassandra17lina/status/1275842522338799617?s=19less than 10% of Swedes have been exposed so far

[boutons_deux]

less than 10% of Swedes have been exposed so far

less than 3% of Americans have been counted as cases, but less call it 6% to include infecteds not counted.

[RandomGuy]

less than 3% of Americans have been counted as cases, but less call it 6% to include infecteds not counted.

20M sounds about right, given the number of fatalities. If this thing ends up infecting 50% of the population over the next few years, you are looking at well over a million dead, barring some new treatment, which I view as very possible given the urgency and amount of resources we are throwing at this thing.

170,000,000*.0066=1,122,000

[tholdren]

20M sounds about right, given the number of fatalities. If this thing ends up infecting 50% of the population over the next few years, you are looking at well over a million dead, barring some new treatment, which I view as very possible given the urgency and amount of resources we are throwing at this thing.

170,000,000*.0066=1,122,000

Lol

[tholdren]

Scientists are getting away scot-free for causing billions of dollars’ worth of damage and this is something that cannot be allowed to happen. It’s not just the World Health Organisation. Ferguson wanted Sweden to lockdown, got Britain to lockdown, and when the numbers become normal, exactly what you would expect without lockdown. He then says, ah it’s because of lockdown. This is terrible science. This is science which should go on trial. Scientists cannot cause damage like this and refuse to listen. I really, really tried hard to get them to at least discuss this with me. In the end I said something I never say: whatever. Just leave me alone, go ahead and die. And the fact is that epidemiology and modelling has been a disgrace. They have not looked at the data. They have been wrong at every turn. We are going to see that although coronavirus is a different disease, the net impact of death is going to be very similar to severe flu and it’s going to be that way without lockdown.

Levitt reserved praise for Sweden:

Sweden is the only country that has done the right thing by heading for what they consider to be herd immunity. It occurs at 15%, not at 80%, another error that the epidemiologists made. Sweden is going to end up with about 600 deaths per million.

[RandomGuy]

Scientists are getting away scot-free for causing billions of dollars’ worth of damage and this is something that cannot be allowed to happen. It’s not just the World Health Organisation. Ferguson wanted Sweden to lockdown, got Britain to lockdown, and when the numbers become normal, exactly what you would expect without lockdown. He then says, ah it’s because of lockdown. This is terrible science. This is science which should go on trial. Scientists cannot cause damage like this and refuse to listen. I really, really tried hard to get them to at least discuss this with me. In the end I said something I never say: whatever. Just leave me alone, go ahead and die. And the fact is that epidemiology and modelling has been a disgrace. They have not looked at the data. They have been wrong at every turn. We are going to see that although coronavirus is a different disease, the net impact of death is going to be very similar to severe flu and it’s going to be that way without lockdown.

Levitt reserved praise for Sweden:

Sweden is the only country that has done the right thing by heading for what they consider to be herd immunity. It occurs at 15%, not at 80%, another error that the epidemiologists made. Sweden is going to end up with about 600 deaths per million.


Sweden Proves ‘Surprisingly Slow’ in Achieving Herd Immunity
Niclas Rolander, Charles Daly and Rafaela Lindeberg 6/17/2020
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/sweden-proves-e2-80-98surprisingly-slow-e2-80-99-in-achieving-herd-immunity/ar-BB15BeTI

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Non-epidemiologist appeal to authority fallacy.

You suck at this. Been hitting "view posts" on you, but there is nothing there but your gibbering for the most part. The problem is this wasn't even your gibbering.

FWIW:
You really should post links to your sources. THAT SHIT WASN'T EVEN YOUR OWN WORDS. :flipoff

https://cassandravoices.com/science-environment/science/this-is-science-which-should-go-on-trial/


Now he said:

Scientists are getting away scot-free for causing billions of dollars’ worth of damage and this is something that cannot be allowed to happen. It’s not just the World Health Organisation. Ferguson wanted Sweden to lockdown, got Britain to lockdown, and when the numbers become normal, exactly what you would expect without lockdown. He then says, ah it’s because of lockdown. This is terrible science. This is science which should go on trial. Scientists cannot cause damage like this and refuse to listen. I really, really tried hard to get them to at least discuss this with me. In the end I said something I never say: whatever. Just leave me alone, go ahead and die. And the fact is that epidemiology and modelling has been a disgrace. They have not looked at the data. They have been wrong at every turn. We are going to see that although coronavirus is a different disease, the net impact of death is going to be very similar to severe flu and it’s going to be that way without lockdown.

Levitt reserved praise for Sweden:

Sweden is the only country that has done the right thing by heading for what they consider to be herd immunity. It occurs at 15%, not at 80%, another error that the epidemiologists made. Sweden is going to end up with about 600 deaths per million.

He is not a specific expert on epidemiology. He has a PhD in chemistry. Experts publish on topic. This guy has not done that. Fucking pseudo-science bullshit for gullible conspiratards like you.

The fact that he keep pushing the "its like a severe flu" when we have indications that it is going to end up way worse than that in the expected death rate, does in for him.

[RandomGuy]

Sweden says 'herd immunity' very close https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/sweden-says-herd-immunity-very-close/ar-BB12WUj1


Sweden is still nowhere near 'herd immunity,' even though it didn't go into lockdown MAY 20 https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/21/health/sweden-herd-immunity-coronavirus-intl/index.html

Did it work:

FUCK NO.

How is herd immunity working out for Sweden?
https://www.epatientdave.com/2020/06/11/how-is-herd-immunity-working-out-for-sweden/


I blogged May 4 about the herd immunity strategy and how it tends to be a disaster if you don’t have a vaccine. The idea is that you let a disease run through a “herd” (animals or people) and eventually enough die or become immune that those who remain don’t transmit the disease much.

This is supported by actual work done in the field by, you know, actual fucking experts.

They found that yes, herd immunity is lower than the 60% threshold. But it wasn't 15%.



herd immunity... occurs at 15%, not at 80%, another error that the epidemiologists made. Sweden is going to end up with about 600 deaths per million.


Age and social activity
Mathematicians at the University of Nottingham in the United Kingdom and Stockholm University in Sweden realized that different groups of people within a population spread infections at different rates.

When they updated the classical model to take into account rates of transmission in different age groups and among people with varying levels of social activity, the threshold for herd immunity fell to 43%.

The research, published in Science,

Unlike tholdrens fucking lying ass, here are the links to back this up:
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/covid-19-achieving-herd-immunity-may-occur-sooner-than-previously-thought#Age-and-social-activity

https://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2020/06/22/science.abc6810


Not 15%, but 43%, and then really only WITH A VACCINE WE DON"T HAVE.

Muh sweden. :lol

[RandomGuy]

As time goes by (in the animation and during an epidemic), here’s what it looks like a while later.

The problem with “herd immunity” as a COVID-19 strategy
https://www.epatientdave.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/Herd-Immunity-2020-05-03-mid.png

https://www.epatientdave.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/Herd-Immunity-OG-2020-05-03-withoutVacc.png


In any case, instead of each of these diagrams being labeled “vaccinated,” our reality today is that each yellow dot doesn’t mean “vaccinated,” it means “got infected & survived”
Ha ha look how funny – this particular image shows herd immunity kicking in after 75% of the population has gotten infected. In the USA that would be 75% of 328 million is 246 million infected people. Ha! Ha!

That includes 75% of everyone you know getting infected. Including, probably, you! Ha! Ha!

And since our best estimate is that 0.5% to 1% of all infections for this virus die, that would be anywhere from 1.23 million to 2.46 million US deaths. What a laugh riot!


https://www.epatientdave.com/2020/05/04/the-problem-with-herd-immunity-as-a-covid-19-strategy/


A herd immunity policy without vaccines is mass murder. And worse.
It’s not just mass murder; it’s a whole lot of very sick people. A friend had the virus and had a fever of 103 for ten 23 days (then 101 for a few more). She was suffering, and of course with this damn virus there’s the always-present fear: “Will I be one of those who suddenly goes downhill fast and dies?” Think about living that way for weeks – both you and your family.

[RandomGuy]

/shellacing

[DarrinS]

Their daily deaths curve looks really good.

[TSA]

Sweden Proves ‘Surprisingly Slow’ in Achieving Herd Immunity
Niclas Rolander, Charles Daly and Rafaela Lindeberg 6/17/2020
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/sweden-proves-e2-80-98surprisingly-slow-e2-80-99-in-achieving-herd-immunity/ar-BB15BeTI

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Non-epidemiologist appeal to authority fallacy.

You suck at this. Been hitting "view posts" on you, but there is nothing there but your gibbering for the most part. The problem is this wasn't even your gibbering.

FWIW:
You really should post links to your sources. THAT SHIT WASN'T EVEN YOUR OWN WORDS. :flipoff

https://cassandravoices.com/science-environment/science/this-is-science-which-should-go-on-trial/



He is not a specific expert on epidemiology. He has a PhD in chemistry. Experts publish on topic. This guy has not done that. Fucking pseudo-science bullshit for gullible conspiratards like you.

The fact that he keep pushing the "its like a severe flu" when we have indications that it is going to end up way worse than that in the expected death rate, does in for him.

And in the very next post you link to E-patient Dave's blog :rollin

[RandomGuy]

Their daily deaths curve looks really good.

To be fair to Sweden:
They got a lot better at keeping it out of nursing homes. (remembered from reading something from a Swedish health official)

[ChumpDumper]

It's 15% because I said so.

[RandomGuy]

And in the very next post you link to E-patient Dave's blog :rollin

Say Qanon fanboy.

:rollin

[TSA]

Say Qanon fanboy.

:rollin

:lol shits on a Stanford biophysicist and Nobel Laureate
:lol immediately links to a professional blogger's thoughts on the subject
:rollin

[ChumpDumper]

:lol shits on a Stanford biophysicist and Nobel Laureate
:lol immediately links to a professional blogger's thoughts on the subject
:rollinYou cited a grocer for two years.

[RandomGuy]

:lol shits on a Stanford biophysicist and Nobel Laureate
:lol immediately links to a professional blogger's thoughts on the subject
:rollin

says Qanon fanboy :rollin

[TSA]

says Qanon fanboy :rollin

Don't listen to this guy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Levitt

Listen to this guy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_deBronkart

:lmao

[tholdren]

Sweden Proves ‘Surprisingly Slow’ in Achieving Herd Immunity
Niclas Rolander, Charles Daly and Rafaela Lindeberg 6/17/2020
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/sweden-proves-e2-80-98surprisingly-slow-e2-80-99-in-achieving-herd-immunity/ar-BB15BeTI

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Non-epidemiologist appeal to authority fallacy.

You suck at this. Been hitting "view posts" on you, but there is nothing there but your gibbering for the most part. The problem is this wasn't even your gibbering.

FWIW:
You really should post links to your sources. THAT SHIT WASN'T EVEN YOUR OWN WORDS. :flipoff

https://cassandravoices.com/science-environment/science/this-is-science-which-should-go-on-trial/



He is not a specific expert on epidemiology. He has a PhD in chemistry. Experts publish on topic. This guy has not done that. Fucking pseudo-science bullshit for gullible conspiratards like you.

The fact that he keep pushing the "its like a severe flu" when we have indications that it is going to end up way worse than that in the expected death rate, does in for him.
Lol RandomGuy meltdoen because he's been wrong for months and doesn't understand why

[tholdren]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/sweden-says-herd-immunity-very-close/ar-BB12WUj1

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/21/health/sweden-herd-immunity-coronavirus-intl/index.html

Did it work:

FUCK NO.

https://www.epatientdave.com/2020/06/11/how-is-herd-immunity-working-out-for-sweden/



This is supported by actual work done in the field by, you know, actual fucking experts.

They found that yes, herd immunity is lower than the 60% threshold. But it wasn't 15%.






Unlike tholdrens fucking lying ass, here are the links to back this up:
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/covid-19-achieving-herd-immunity-may-occur-sooner-than-previously-thought#Age-and-social-activity

https://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2020/06/22/science.abc6810


Not 15%, but 43%, and then really only WITH A VACCINE WE DON"T HAVE.

Muh sweden. :lol

Look at RandomGuy meltdown. Not only does he use profanity because he's emotionally insecure, but he calls me lying for posting an interview of a Stanford professor.

RandomGuy is hilariously insecure. And illogical. And wrong. And bad at math. Spurstalk. Lol

[tholdren]

Look at RandomGuy meltdown. Not only does he use profanity because he's emotionally insecure, but he calls me lying for posting an interview of a Stanford professor.

RandomGuy is hilariously insecure. And illogical. And wrong. And bad at math. Spurstalk. Lol

RandomGuy