Official 2021 Free Agency Day Thread (Begins at 5PM CT)

[objective]

Backing off John Collins and helping DDR get paid for Lauri is such a Spurs screw up.

How about playing three Collins card to the end and then worry about DeMar and his money.

And if it means DeMar has to take a tiny deal that's his problem

[bluebellmaniac]

If someone is signed to a max contract, is there any room to sign Wieskamp to a Tre Jones deal?


The salary of a draftee is already baked into what the team can offer on a max contract, it's called a cap-hold. If there wasn't room for a max offer, then they might have to either trade or renounce the right to Wieskamp if that made a difference in being able to offer a max.

Hope that made sense.

[objective]

its been a while since i had a solid understanding of NBA cap rules, last time i really went into that dive was during the big LMA summer.

can a derozan/bulls S&T be executed while still being able to get collins on an offer sheet?

No. Because they'd have to renounce DeMar to have the space to offer a sheet to Collins.

And it's not like DeMar is being traded into capspace where the Spurs could renounce the trade exception ... They'd be taking back salary

[baseline bum]

yeah, from here on out no news is definitely good news. only teams with enough cap space to throw max (or near max) offers at collins are the spurs and thunder, as far as i understand. will then come down to whether hawks would match. the news that they "arent close" to agreeing with collins appears to be pretty good news as well, since it looks like he's holding out for max or near max money and they dont currently want to pay that.

they might just be testing the market and hoping he doenst get a max offer, but would match if he did get one. impossible to truly read

Probably just means Good Collins wants a fifth year and 8% raises while the Hawks want him to sign an offer sheet so it's 4 years with 4% raises. I wouldn't hold out any hope of the Spurs actually getting him.

[DPG21920]

its been a while since i had a solid understanding of NBA cap rules, last time i really went into that dive was during the big LMA summer.

can a derozan/bulls S&T be executed while still being able to get collins on an offer sheet?

Technically? Yes. But realistically, no

[R. DeMurre]

Wow, nothing sums up how much the NBA has changed more than Andre Drummond signing a one year minimum deal.

[td4mvp2k]

hawks holding the cards

[EasyMoney]

its been a while since i had a solid understanding of NBA cap rules, last time i really went into that dive was during the big LMA summer.

can a derozan/bulls S&T be executed while still being able to get collins on an offer sheet?

No expert either. But I don't think that would work unless you attain collins first. Then execute the s&t, which means going over the cap, and possibly luxury tax depending on size

[DPG21920]

No. Because they'd have to renounce DeMar to have the space to offer a sheet to Collins.

And it's not like DeMar is being traded into capspace where the Spurs could renounce the trade exception ... They'd be taking back salary

You can renounce DeRozan and still sign and trade him. In theory, if DDR and Lauri were S&T for say 8M each, SA would still have 20M to offer Collins. Obviously that is so unrealistic it’s not worth discussing, but it’s possible.

However, as I mentioned in my 3 team trade scenario which I think may be a likely framework IF SA really wants Collins:

SA Gets: Collins + Thad Young + Top 5 protected pick (likely from CHI)

ATL Gets: Dejounte Murray

CHI Gets: DeRozan (and then they still have Lauri they can keep or sign and trade as well).

I think CHI easily does that if they are serious about wanting DDR. Giving up only Thad + a pick is a no brainer IMO.

ATL very likely does it if they are truly willing to let Collins walk anyways; that’s a no brainer.

Question really is: Does SA do this? Do they even want Collins at his max? Are they willing to trade Murray for a lottery pick (or maybe just outside of lottery)?

[objective]

The salary of a draftee is already baked into what the team can offer on a max contract, it's called a cap-hold. If there wasn't room for a max offer, then they might have to either trade or renounce the right to Wieskamp if that made a difference in being able to offer a max.

Hope that made sense.

Not exactly.

Jones was signed using part of the mle last year which allowed him to sign a 3 year deal.

If the Spurs operate as an under the cap team, they lose the mle but do gain the room exception. Room exception is limited to 2 year deals.

So if the Spurs land Collins, unless there's some money left over then weiskamp can only get a 2 year deal

[mo7888]

You can renounce DeRozan and still sign and trade him. In theory, if DDR and Lauri were S&T for say 8M each, SA would still have 20M to offer Collins. Obviously that is so unrealistic it’s not worth discussing, but it’s possible.

However, as I mentioned in my 3 team trade scenario which I think may be a likely framework IF SA really wants Collins:

SA Gets: Collins + Thad Young + Top 5 protected pick (likely from CHI)

ATL Gets: Dejounte Murray

CHI Gets: DeRozan (and then they still have Lauri they can keep or sign and trade as well).

I think CHI easily does that if they are serious about wanting DDR. Giving up only Thad + a pick is a no brainer IMO.

ATL very likely does it if they are truly willing to let Collins walk anyways; that’s a no brainer.

Question really is: Does SA do this? Do they even want Collins at his max? Are they willing to trade Murray for a lottery pick (or maybe just outside of lottery)?

If they really want JC at the max they do it.... if they don't see much difference between he and Lauri they probably do a straight S&T with Chicago and still have a little money left over (between 10M and 14M)... they could conceivably trade White or DJ to GS for Wiggins + assets if they wanted..... of course that requires creativity that we have yet to see...

[bluebellmaniac]

its been a while since i had a solid understanding of NBA cap rules, last time i really went into that dive was during the big LMA summer.

can a derozan/bulls S&T be executed while still being able to get collins on an offer sheet?


I don't see how any of that would work. They would have to either S/T DMDR for Collins or renounce Demar to sign Collins under the cap. No way to do both.

[NASpurs]

1422619569634615297

Twin towers 2.0

Seriously trading for Lauri? Don’t we already have enough of the same dudes?

[Teamduncan21]

White is injured often. Trading Murray to a not guard is a bit risky if white gets hurt. Tre, Lonnie , primo might have to fill in as main guard

[pad300]

Probably just means Good Collins wants a fifth year and 8% raises while the Hawks want him to sign an offer sheet so it's 4 years with 4% raises. I wouldn't hold out any hope of the Spurs actually getting him.

I think you're underestimating how cheap the Hawks are trying to go. IF the rumors are right, the Hawks want to keep him to less than $100M/4yrs. If I have my math right, The max the spurs can put on the table is $119M/4yrs, starting at $28M. The max the Hawks could put in front of him is $163M/5yrs. There is some wiggle room to work between the Hawks desired value, and what the spurs can offer (not a lot though).

[objective]

You can renounce DeRozan and still sign and trade him. In theory, if DDR and Lauri were S&T for say 8M each, SA would still have 20M to offer Collins. Obviously that is so unrealistic it’s not worth discussing, but it’s possible.

However, as I mentioned in my 3 team trade scenario which I think may be a likely framework IF SA really wants Collins:

SA Gets: Collins + Thad Young + Top 5 protected pick (likely from CHI)

ATL Gets: Dejounte Murray

CHI Gets: DeRozan (and then they still have Lauri they can keep or sign and trade as well).

I think CHI easily does that if they are serious about wanting DDR. Giving up only Thad + a pick is a no brainer IMO.

ATL very likely does it if they are truly willing to let Collins walk anyways; that’s a no brainer.

Question really is: Does SA do this? Do they even want Collins at his max? Are they willing to trade Murray for a lottery pick (or maybe just outside of lottery)?

I am not so sure they could renounce and still sign and trade. Renouncing loses all rights to a player including bird rights. A sign and trade then would be like sign and trading a random free agent which I don't think happens

Besides, Collins already turned down 4/90, Atlanta would easily match on 20.

With regards to your trade idea, it seems very inventive and I don't think I could imagine this Spurs front office doing it.

[Teamduncan21]

We are aiming for twin Collins.
Or twin white guys.

[cjw]

Spurs have some stuff going for them right now. 1) There is a chance the lack of an offer to Collins will sour the Collins/Hawks relationship. 2) Some kind of DeMar sign and trade is more likely now that no one has money left. 3) Oubre + Mills or some such is still available if Hawks resign Collins. 4) Could do something like White + 2 picks for Simmons, if that is still in play. 5) Could go into season with 30M space to use in the future trade demand market.

White plus picks for Simmons is an offer I'd make. Not only would Spurs land Simmons, but they'd get another 12M or so in space they could use on the DeMar sign and trade market. They could turn that into Simmons and a rotation player.

How does White for Simmons give them more cap space? It actually eliminates any Demar S&T because the Spurs would only have $12 million left to sign Demar with as they are operating under the cap.

They could technically do it if they did the McDermott and Collins signings last, but it would seriously limit how much salary they could take back in a Demar S&T.

Almost certain any deal involving Simmons would have to include Demar to make dollars work, or be a multi-team with Demar going elsewhere. I actually think Demar is a really interesting fit in Philly. He and White even more so.

[timvp]

With the Spurs putting together the CREAM* Team, Markkanen doesn't really fit so I'm skeptical he'd be a part of a DeRozan sign-and-trade. Markkanen has a rep of being aloof, lazy and someone who rolls his eyes at coaches. Thaddeus Young, on the other hand, would fit the CREAM Team. Everyone loves Thad.

So putting my CREAM hat on, I'd suspect something like Thad, Troy Brown Jr. and a second rounder for DeRozan in a sign-and-trade.















(*character over everything)

[Darius Bieber]

Lauri Markkanen is basically Saminic part 2

[DPG21920]

If they really want JC at the max they do it.... if they don't see much difference between he and Lauri they probably do a straight S&T with Chicago and still have a little money left over (between 10M and 14M)... they could conceivably trade White or DJ to GS for Wiggins + assets if they wanted..... of course that requires creativity that we have yet to see...

Agree..just depends on who SA actually values as a player? Lauri or Collins. I think since SA has the space they won’t care much about Collins being 28M vs Lauri being 15/18M…I think its who do they value as a player more?

Now, if CHI offers like 3 firsts for DDR then maybe that skews it as they view Lauri as solid but getting 3 extra picks or something. But IMO it’s which player do they want, Collins or Lauri more than anything else.

[DPG21920]

I am not so sure they could renounce and still sign and trade. Renouncing loses all rights to a player including bird rights. A sign and trade then would be like sign and trading a random free agent which I don't think happens

Besides, Collins already turned down 4/90, Atlanta would easily match on 20.

With regards to your trade idea, it seems very inventive and I don't think I could imagine this Spurs front office doing it.


I am 100% certain you can renounce and trade still. The rights only matter with regards to incumbent team wanting to resign said player using bird rights.

[Leetonidas]

Willing to bet we won't hear anything until the J. Collins situation is resolved. That's the main domino holding everything up

[daslicer]

With the Spurs putting together the CREAM* Team, Markkanen doesn't really fit so I'm skeptical he'd be a part of a DeRozan sign-and-trade. Markkanen has a rep of being aloof, lazy and someone who rolls his eyes at coaches. Thaddeus Young, on the other hand, would fit the CREAM Team. Everyone loves Thad.

So putting my CREAM hat on, I'd suspect something like Thad, Troy Brown Jr. and a second rounder for DeRozan in a sign-and-trade.















(*character over everything)

:lol I would even approve of that trade now. My expectations are so low that I just want Demar gone. If he's gone then this offseason was a success since with these CREAM guys the Spurs are going to get a high lottery pick.

[Robz4000]

With the Spurs putting together the CREAM* Team, Markkanen doesn't really fit so I'm skeptical he'd be a part of a DeRozan sign-and-trade. Markkanen has a rep of being aloof, lazy and someone who rolls his eyes at coaches. Thaddeus Young, on the other hand, would fit the CREAM Team. Everyone loves Thad.

So putting my CREAM hat on, I'd suspect something like Thad, Troy Brown Jr. and a second rounder for DeRozan in a sign-and-trade.















(*character over everything)

:vomit: :depressed

[SpursGuy91]

Thad looked pretty washed late last year… I’d rather just let Derozan walk than add a washed bum to the roster

[DPG21920]

With the Spurs putting together the CREAM* Team, Markkanen doesn't really fit so I'm skeptical he'd be a part of a DeRozan sign-and-trade. Markkanen has a rep of being aloof, lazy and someone who rolls his eyes at coaches. Thaddeus Young, on the other hand, would fit the CREAM Team. Everyone loves Thad.

So putting my CREAM hat on, I'd suspect something like Thad, Troy Brown Jr. and a second rounder for DeRozan in a sign-and-trade.















(*character over everything)

F*ck off man :lol Are you trolling? How on earth would a package of old ass Thad, Troy Brown and a 2nd be enough to entice SA to give up on Collins??? Troy Brown is crappy prospect and he’s basically due to get “paid” soon. If it’s not Lauri, they would easily need to include Patrick Williams for any shot here..

[timvp]

F*ck off man :lol Are you trolling? How on earth would a package of old ass Thad, Troy Brown and a 2nd be enough to entice SA to give up on Collins???

We building the CREAM Team, homie. Catch up.

[cjw]

I think you're underestimating how cheap the Hawks are trying to go. IF the rumors are right, the Hawks want to keep him to less than $100M/4yrs. If I have my math right, The max the spurs can put on the table is $119M/4yrs, starting at $28M. The max the Hawks could put in front of him is $163M/5yrs. There is some wiggle room to work between the Hawks desired value, and what the spurs can offer (not a lot though).

Hawks are probably trying to avoid the tax, and I have them right at $114 million excluding Collins’ contract and including their draft pick. The Okongwu injury stung them because it forced a trade for Thompson at almost $10 million.

Tax is $136.6 million, so that’s probably how they’re sizing their offer to Collins.

He can be had. Hawks still have MLE if they were to decide not to match him.

[baseline bum]

I think you're underestimating how cheap the Hawks are trying to go. IF the rumors are right, the Hawks want to keep him to less than $100M/4yrs. If I have my math right, The max the spurs can put on the table is $119M/4yrs, starting at $28M. The max the Hawks could put in front of him is $163M/5yrs. There is some wiggle room to work between the Hawks desired value, and what the spurs can offer (not a lot though).

Seems like they're just waiting for the Spurs to do something stupid, probably a good gamble to make. Then I guess they legitimately can get him for 4 years, $100 million if no one is around to sign him to an offer sheet.

[DPG21920]

We building the CREAM Team, homie. Catch up.

My man, I know you are full on CREAM team scenario and rightfully so, but there is no way SA is so stupid that they would take that package that doesnt help their team at all just to appease DDR.

No way.

[Dennis the Menace]

How mad would people get if Spurs land Markannen instead of John Collins?

Lol I don’t even want to think about it

[objective]

I am 100% certain you can renounce and trade still. The rights only matter with regards to incumbent team wanting to resign said player using bird rights.

I looked into it and you are correct.

[DPG21920]

Any scenario that doesn’t include John Collins effort first is a fail.

If they try and lose out on Collins fine. But if they are dealing with the bulls they need either Lauri (on a reasonable deal - :lol pay him like he’s Dougie Fresh) and/or a first round pick and Patrick Williams along with Thad.

[Robz4000]

My man, I know you are full on CREAM team scenario and rightfully so, but there is no way SA is so stupid that they would take that package that doesnt help their team at all just to appease DDR.

No way.

:lol I can 100% see it

[Darius Bieber]

Mills to the Nets

[Russ]

From the Spurs' perspective, it almost looks like Collins vs. Markkanen vs. DeRozan.

If it was only basketball issues (i.e., age, fit, team considerations, but factoring out money and all other things "non-basketball"), who would you take in such an ideal world?

Collins seems flashy but Atlanta is a savvy organization -- they're hesitating.

Markkanen looks good, too, but apparently his D is suspect -- rim protection is critical from that position.

DeRozan is DeRozan.

I might prefer trying to get future considerations (maybe draft picks) to any of them.

[objective]

I am now expecting a terrible sign and trade with DeMar and no play for John Collins

Why?

Have you seen the moves Brian Wright has been making?

Does his history give you any confidence that he's smart enough to even realize the benefits of getting Collins?

The front office have proven they're out of their minds.

[mo7888]

Agree..just depends on who SA actually values as a player? Lauri or Collins. I think since SA has the space they won’t care much about Collins being 28M vs Lauri being 15/18M…I think its who do they value as a player more?

Now, if CHI offers like 3 firsts for DDR then maybe that skews it as they view Lauri as solid but getting 3 extra picks or something. But IMO it’s which player do they want, Collins or Lauri more than anything else.

I agree with that...I personally prefer JC but, I've gone back and forth on it over the course of the year... they could very well prefer Lauri...

[NASpurs]

My man, I know you are full on CREAM team scenario and rightfully so, but there is no way SA is so stupid that they would take that package that doesnt help their team at all just to appease DDR.

No way.

:lol yeah they’re stupid enough

[Leetonidas]

Patty to BKN :wow 12.1M

[Degoat]

So long mate…

[Degoat]

So long mate…

[Jordan Jackson]

Reuniting Forbes and Mills. Hope they close games together.

Nets don’t plan on playing any defense. Like ever I guess.

[Cardinal]

A package from the Bulls must include Markannen or Patrick Williams, otherwise what is the point of doing the trade? Just to make Demar happy? The Spurs need to get a prospect out of it. If I understand correctly, the earliest first round pick the Spurs could receive from the Bulls would be 2025, which is not too appealing

[mo7888]

https://sports.yahoo.com/sources-demar-derozan-plans-to-meet-with-los-angeles-clippers-184254950.html

The Chicago Bulls are also courting DeRozan, sources said.

[Leetonidas]

Spurs really losing all the vets :wow fans getting what they wanted once Demars gone. Fucking hope they get JC

[duncan2150]

Happy that we end the Patty, Rudy era, next derozan. I lilke the three but it's time to move on.

[Cardinal]

DeRozan to meet with the Clippers today according to Haynes.

https://sports.yahoo.com/sources-demar-derozan-plans-to-meet-with-los-angeles-clippers-184254950.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cucmVkZGl0LmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAKVVCqYWhvTTuWdRjlhBg_vkywPq byEeLQYO2lGxPpDnzsS7a2iqGo43fVdyBxflKeivgdOCHaBo2d c2LyJkgWvqgu3Gzp2E69e1pDVcHW7PyxZOPM_rOasx1RhSVDl-hRV9iCWL5YEP2mZxwVBVS697hkJxEPeu5zgi0HSpwhtR

"All the team has at its disposal is the $5.3 million taxpayer midlevel exception. A sign-and-trade with the San Antonio Spurs — DeRozan’s previous team — could also be an option, but it’s unclear if the Clippers have the assets the Spurs would want."

[mo7888]

DeRozan to meet with the Clippers today according to Haynes.

https://sports.yahoo.com/sources-demar-derozan-plans-to-meet-with-los-angeles-clippers-184254950.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cucmVkZGl0LmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAKVVCqYWhvTTuWdRjlhBg_vkywPq byEeLQYO2lGxPpDnzsS7a2iqGo43fVdyBxflKeivgdOCHaBo2d c2LyJkgWvqgu3Gzp2E69e1pDVcHW7PyxZOPM_rOasx1RhSVDl-hRV9iCWL5YEP2mZxwVBVS697hkJxEPeu5zgi0HSpwhtR

"All the team has at its disposal is the $5.3 million taxpayer midlevel exception. A sign-and-trade with the San Antonio Spurs — DeRozan’s previous team — could also be an option, but it’s unclear if the Clippers have the assets the Spurs would want."


Kennard, Keon, and Tre?

[mo7888]

DeRozan to meet with the Clippers today according to Haynes.

https://sports.yahoo.com/sources-demar-derozan-plans-to-meet-with-los-angeles-clippers-184254950.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cucmVkZGl0LmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAKVVCqYWhvTTuWdRjlhBg_vkywPq byEeLQYO2lGxPpDnzsS7a2iqGo43fVdyBxflKeivgdOCHaBo2d c2LyJkgWvqgu3Gzp2E69e1pDVcHW7PyxZOPM_rOasx1RhSVDl-hRV9iCWL5YEP2mZxwVBVS697hkJxEPeu5zgi0HSpwhtR

"All the team has at its disposal is the $5.3 million taxpayer midlevel exception. A sign-and-trade with the San Antonio Spurs — DeRozan’s previous team — could also be an option, but it’s unclear if the Clippers have the assets the Spurs would want."


Kennard, Keon, and Tre?

[John B]

There goes our Vets. Only Demar left. I’m not against Demar if 2nd or 3rd option. I guess will see a lot of youngsters now.

[stephen jackson]

Terrance man and kennard I’ll take

[Texas_Ranger]

Woj - Two-time MVP Steph Curry has agreed on a four-year, $215M contract extension with the Golden State Warriors, making him the first player in history to sign two career $200 million-plus deals

[Robz4000]

:lol if they get Kennard and Markkanen they really will be the MAGA Spurs

[Dejounte]

Terrence Mann would be nice

deRozan would be a trojan horse to fuck everything up on that team

[duncan2150]

:lol if they get Kennard and Markkanen they really will be the MAGA Spurs

Best Spurs team ever ! lol

[Texas_Ranger]

Woj - Free agent F Carmelo Anthony has agreed to a one-year deal with the Los Angeles Lakers

[BacktoBasics]

Spurs can’t sign Collins. Wright has to make sure he saves that 1 time max slot for Joshy Primo.

[spurraider21]

Spurs really losing all the vets :wow fans getting what they wanted once Demars gone. Fucking hope they get JC
we should have done what we could have to gotten value for them during last year's draft or deadline

instead all we did was buy out LMA :lmao

[Texas_Ranger]

Woj - Free agent G Malik Monk has agreed to a deal with the Los Angeles Lakers

[mo7888]

Monk to the Lakers.... that's the 1st signing they've made that I like..

[LeBowen]

Kennard, Keon, and Tre?


Yeah, I'm not making that deal without both Keon and Mann.

But if Demar goes there he probably takes the MLE and Ballmer gives him the money under the table.

[EasyMoney]

Keon, Mann, and Kennard to make contracts match, I guess? Spurs have 13 spots taken already with KBD with the qualifying offer so someone would have to get waived.

[rjv]

i wouldn't be too unhappy with a deal that brokers the expiring contracts of Thaddeus Young ($14.19MM) and Al-Farouq Aminu ($10.18MM) for DDR if that trade also includes the bulls 1st rounder for 2022, especially if these two can then be turned into another deal.

[John B]

There goes our Vets. Only Demar left. I’m not against Demar if 2nd or 3rd option. I guess will see a lot of youngsters now.

[duncan2150]

Kennard, Keon, and Tre?


I think spurs will take a max of two players in a deal, there is not a lot of roster spots and maybe they want to sign a player after the derozan deal.

[Mugen]

I think I've seen 3 Malik Monk games in my lifetime... but that sounds like an actual decent signing compared to the other guys that they signed based on their NBA2K2011 ratings :lol

[rjv]

melo to lakers. of course.

[CGD]

i wouldn't be too unhappy with a deal that brokers the expiring contracts of Thaddeus Young ($14.19MM) and Al-Farouq Aminu ($10.18MM) for DDR if that trade also includes the bulls 1st rounder for 2022, especially if these two can then be turned into another deal.

I can’t keep track, can Bulls trade their 2022 pick? I thought they gave Orlando all sorts of picks for Vuc.

[Mugen]

There goes our Vets. Only Demar left. I’m not against Demar if 2nd or 3rd option. I guess will see a lot of youngsters now.

In what parallel universe if Pop using Demar as a 2nd or 3rd option if he's back on the team :lol

[cjw]

Patty took the taxpayer MLE. Good for him, playing for a(nother) title.

[Mugen]

There goes our Vets. Only Demar left. I’m not against Demar if 2nd or 3rd option. I guess will see a lot of youngsters now.

In what parallel universe if Pop using Demar as a 2nd or 3rd option if he's back on the team :lol

[Mr. Body]

Woj - Free agent F Carmelo Anthony has agreed to a one-year deal with the Los Angeles Lakers

Oldest team in league history.

[mo7888]

I think spurs will take a max of two players in a deal, there is not a lot of roster spots and maybe they want to sign a player after the derozan deal.

I think they'd waive/renounce KBD and/or Jefferies.... or they could always send one of the incoming assets to a 3rd team for future consideration if they so wished..

[rjv]

I can’t keep track, can Bulls trade their 2022 pick? I thought they gave Orlando all sorts of picks for Vuc.

the Bulls traded their No. 1 draft selections in 2021 and 2023 last March for Vucevic with one proviso: if the 2021 pick fell in the top four, the Bulls would have retained the pick and the Magic would have received the Bulls' No. 1 draft picks for 2022 and 2024. but that didn't happen.

[cjw]

I can’t keep track, can Bulls trade their 2022 pick? I thought they gave Orlando all sorts of picks for Vuc.

Nope, earliest they can trade pick is 2026 because their 2023 is protected and backed by a 2024 pick.

No thank you unless it’s a minor piece and trade has another asset. Would rather not facilitate deal and carry cap space than those contracts.

[baseline bum]

Spurs really losing all the vets :wow fans getting what they wanted once Demars gone. Fucking hope they get JC

DeRozan is the one I want out. I could have lived with Mills since they have to pay somebody to hit a salary floor but no fucking way on DeRozan.

[spurspl]

Nick Young just tweeted: "Dnt forget me" :lol

[Dejounte]

There goes our Vets. Only Demar left. I’m not against Demar if 2nd or 3rd option. I guess will see a lot of youngsters now.


two top 5 players in usage are gone

next year’s team is going to look mighty different

[DPG21920]

I feel slightly better (still don’t love the COllins/Doug deals unless those contracts turn out way more favorable than initially reported). Spurs at least let the vets go and I didn’t think they would. Now it’s time for DDR>


But I swear, if after signing Doug if they take Luke Kennard in a sign and trade I am done :lol

[slick'81]

Soo any real news on derozan? Will it have to be a s&t with clipps or bulls?

[RiverwalkParade]

Can we just re-sign Demar to a 1 year deal and trade him mid season to a contender? Does Demar do that deal?

[Robz4000]

I feel slightly better (still don’t love the COllins/Doug deals unless those contracts turn out way more favorable than initially reported). Spurs at least let the vets go and I didn’t think they would. Now it’s time for DDR>


But I swear, if after signing Doug if they take Luke Kennard in a sign and trade I am done :lol

MAGA Spurs comin'

[Dennis the Menace]

John Collins move is still alive gents

[RC_Drunkford]

and that my friends was the exact reason why I hated the early signings of McDermott and Zach Collins. If the Spurs had 54 million in cap space, they could easily offer Collins 28 million per year and send DeRozan out in a sign-and-trade for 20 million to fetch some assets. But no, let's waist our flexibility on McDermott and a guy who can't even get on the floor this season. I swear this FO is beyond retarded

[Texas_Ranger]

and that my friends was the exact reason why I hated the early signings of McDermott and Zach Collins. If the Spurs had 54 million in cap space, they could easily offer Collins 28 million per year and send DeRozan out in a sign-and-trade for 20 million to fetch some assets. But no, let's waist our flexibility on McDermott and a guy who can't even get on the floor this season. I swear this FO is beyond retarded

with the Mavs the most retarded FO in the league.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Relieved to see Patty gone. One more peaked vet to go in ddr. Lots of Twitter smoke about the bulls, let’s make it happen.

[Darius Bieber]

If we can't get Collins, just say fuck it and have all this capspace instead of signing someone else for x amount of years. Who cares if we don't hit the Salary floor, there's no major penalty for not reaching it.

[Dejounte]

According to our in-house capologist, Danny Leroux, only Oklahoma City and San Antonio still have more than $20 million available in cap space. There also are no indications that either team is planning to add Collins. The Hawks, sources say, want to keep Collins and aren’t interested in sign-and-trade options at this time.

per the athletic

[Dejounte]

According to our in-house capologist, Danny Leroux, only Oklahoma City and San Antonio still have more than $20 million available in cap space. There also are no indications that either team is planning to add Collins. The Hawks, sources say, want to keep Collins and aren’t interested in sign-and-trade options at this time.

per the athletic

[RC_Drunkford]

getting Collins is way better than getting whatever the Bulls want to send us. Just my 2 cents. Of course I wish we could do both, but we can't. Unless Brian Wright breaks his word and is telling Zach and Doug to go fuck themselves

[Trill Clinton]

1422640420467662849

[Cardinal]

Per that Athletic report, the Hawk's offer is at 5 years/$125 million

[slick'81]

So still fckn around with demar instead of going after JC? Maybe spurs are confident atl will match?

[NASpurs]

Hawks offered Collins 5 yr/$125 mil contract

[Leetonidas]

Interesting considering Shams reported yesterday that they weren't close on negotiations

[RC_Drunkford]

one question for the cap gurus: Does the salary have to match if we send DeMar to the Bulls? Or can we trade him into cap space and get next to nothing back? Do the Bulls have enough cap space? Hoopshype has them at 96 million with Markkanen's 9 million included, but they did the S&T with Lonzo right? I'm confused here

[Mugen]

Maybe Collins hates the Hawks tbh cuz I'd definitely take that over something comparable with a rudderless organization like the Spurs :lol

[slick'81]

No pf for us:cry

[Floyd Pacquiao]

As long as Demar is gone I’ll begrudgingly continue to be a fan. It will still be disappointing to have fucking Doug mcforbes and Zach I haven’t played in 2 years Collins as the big free agent signings this season but well at least patty gay and Derozan would be gone

[RC_Drunkford]

Hawks offered Collins 5 yr/$125 mil contract

FUCK!!!

[NASpurs]

We’re going to get some dude name Lauri aren’t we :lol

[Mugen]

FUCK!!!

I mean if they really offered him that and he still hasn't accepted, that's probably good news for the Spurs :lol

I'm sure he's just trying to squeeze a few extra mil out of them per year and I'm sure retard Brian Wright can help make that happen.

[slick'81]

We’re going to get some dude name Lauri aren’t we :lol

one last big white stiff to appease popovich

[Chinook]

No. Because they'd have to renounce DeMar to have the space to offer a sheet to Collins.

And it's not like DeMar is being traded into capspace where the Spurs could renounce the trade exception ... They'd be taking back salary

The answer to his question is yes, actually.

[Robz4000]

Just tell McDermott and Collins they'll pay them extra up front so their contracts only last for the season to hit the salary floor and just tank tbh.

[John B]

Per that Athletic report, the Hawk's offer is at 5 years/$125 million
Can Spurs beat that? 4 years 112 mil correct? I think Collins would stay being Spurs is not as competitive.

Welcome back Demar :deadhorse:lmao:lmao

[RC_Drunkford]

Chicago is offering Thad Young a first round pick and 2 2nd rounders :lol

[Texas_Ranger]

with the way our free agency is going i am shocke tj mcconnell hasn't signed with us.

[Shastafarian]

timvp was right lol

[Leetonidas]

Haynes reporting DD and Chicago are close to a deal?

[Spurs Homer]

Still dont get this infatuation with Collins...

I watched him in the playoffs and other than maybe one or two sequences where he seemed to wake up and actually give a shit...

the majority of the time on the floor he was nothing special at all to my eyes...

ill even go so far as to say that - in WINS/LOSSES - this coming season

id say between having Collins and having DDR-

the win/loss tally would be - maybe -2-3 wins either way with DDR probably giving us 2 extra wins

fuck Collins

[Trill Clinton]

A future first and two 2nds plus Thaddeus? Not bad!

[Darius Bieber]

Dang only Thad Young and picks

[NASpurs]

It’s happening!!!

[BillMc]

We’re going to get some dude name Lauri aren’t we :lol

Honestly, would rather have Kristaps, than Lauri. But it looks like Lauri or nothing. Hell.

[RC_Drunkford]

Thad Young is on an expiring 15 million $ contract. Can we waive him? Apparently Collins is holding out for the max and Spurs can offer 120/4 years

[rankingtear]

1422648365880287235

Lauri? ATL offered the 5th year looks like that is what Collins is waiting for.

[NASpurs]

Chicago is offering Thad Young a first round pick and 2 2nd rounders :lol

The picks are fine I guess

[RC_Drunkford]

that would be amazing. Get picks back from Chicago and still get Collins

[BillMc]

Hawks offered Collins 5 yr/$125 mil contract

Why did I get my hopes up?

[baseline bum]

Why would Collins take 5 years, $125 million when a max offer sheet for him is 4 years, $119 million?

[Mugen]

Thank you, Chicago. Thank you so fucking much :lol

[RC_Drunkford]

so wouldn't we get a trade exception if this happens? Plus can we get rid of Young's 15 million to still offer Collins the max? Like sign Zach Collins with an exception to keep the cap room at 30 million?

[PhantomDashCam]

Wow! Just waking up in Australia.

Patty, Rudy and DDR gone.
They finally did it. They are starting to move on. :clap

Very exciting.

[NASpurs]

1422650517847789577

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

so wouldn't we get a trade exception if this happens? Plus can we get rid of Young's 15 million to still offer Collins the max? Like sign Zach Collins with an exception to keep the cap room at 30 million?

Collins is gone. Move on.

[John B]

Sources: The San Antonio Spurs are finalizing sending DeMar DeRozan to the Chicago Bulls for Thad Young, a future first-round pick and two second-round picks.

[baseline bum]

so wouldn't we get a trade exception if this happens? Plus can we get rid of Young's 15 million to still offer Collins the max? Like sign Zach Collins with an exception to keep the cap room at 30 million?

Young's $14 million got guaranteed yesterday. Fuck this team.

[RC_Drunkford]

no Collins. Why the fuck would we want Al Farouq Aminu? :lmao :lmao :lmao fuck this front office

[Chinook]

To clarify, by agreeing to three-year deals with Collins and McD, the Spurs left themselves the option to acquire those players in a S&T. That means, they could either wrap those players up in a deal for DeRozan or trade someone else for them. I don't really have a lot of time right now, but the Spurs could definitely acquire Collins, Collins and McDermott and S&T DeRozan for something else in the same off-season. That particular combo would require them to trade Murray or White (or some other combo that gets them to the $15-Million range). But if we were talking about like a Simmons trade, that might be necessary anyway.

One example:

Trade for J Collins to give ATL a TE
Trade DeRozan and whatever for Simmons
Trade Murray into the ATL TE while simultaneously trading with Portland and Indiana for McD and Z Collins

Simmons, Jones,
White, Vassell, Primo, Jeffries
McD, Johnson, Wieskamp
Collins, Samanic, KBD
Poeltl, Eubanks, Collins

Would probably let Jeffries go for a vet PG using the room exception.

Again just an example. The Spurs haven't even committed to being a cap-space team yet. They have a lot of options on how to structure their deals.

[NASpurs]

RIP the J Collins dream

1422651462501470215

[baseline bum]

Collins is gone. Move on.

No he wasn't, Spurs could have offered 4 years, $119 million. Fuck this front office, burn this franchise to the fucking ground. $50 million in capspace to get 1 first rounder and a fistful of crap.

[baseline bum]

Collins is gone. Move on.

No he wasn't, Spurs could have offered 4 years, $119 million. Fuck this front office, burn this franchise to the fucking ground. $50 million in capspace to get 1 first rounder and a fistful of crap.

[RC_Drunkford]

we got our roster boys:

Murray/Tre Jones/Primo
White/Walker/Vassell
Johnson/Aminu/Weiskamp
McDermott/Thad Young/Samanic
Poeltl/Zach Collins/Eubanks

:lmao :lmao :lmao

this is the worst Spurs roster I have ever witnessed

[Mugen]

Collins was never gonna happen with this retarded FO, I'm just beyond happy that Depression is gone. :lol

[Darius Bieber]

First Round Pick of Chicago is 2025

[El Santo]

How do spurs always manage to get baloney for their trades while other teams always make a killing trading their stars or semi good players?
This teams is going to be worse than last year ... on top of that they pàying zach collins 7 mil to sit in the bench rehabing....:bang :bang

[cjw]

Young's $14 million got guaranteed yesterday. Fuck this team.

NBA changed rules and you can’t trade non-guaranteed contracts anymore.

[NASpurs]

Did we just get fleeced again? :lol

[Darius Bieber]

we got our roster boys:

Murray/Tre Jones/Primo
White/Walker/Vassell
Johnson/Aminu/Weiskamp
McDermott/Thad Young/Samanic
Poeltl/Zach Collins/Eubanks

:lmao :lmao :lmao

this is the worst Spurs roster I have ever witnessed

This is advanced tanking - we may not get 10 wins.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

No he wasn't, Spurs could have offered 4 years, $119 million. Fuck this front office, burn this franchise to the fucking ground. $50 million in capspace to get 1 first rounder and a fistful of crap.

My point was we had news on Collins and ATL agreeing to a deal. I agree with you on the rest. All this cap space and Pop and Wrong couldn’t even trade for HITA. absolutely garbage off-season.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

No he wasn't, Spurs could have offered 4 years, $119 million. Fuck this front office, burn this franchise to the fucking ground. $50 million in capspace to get 1 first rounder and a fistful of crap.

My point was we had news on Collins and ATL agreeing to a deal. I agree with you on the rest. All this cap space and Pop and Wrong couldn’t even trade for HITA. absolutely garbage off-season.

[rankingtear]

Tank is on.

[RC_Drunkford]

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1422651836012666894?s=20

[El Santo]

we got our roster boys:

Murray/Tre Jones/Primo
White/Walker/Vassell
Johnson/Aminu/Weiskamp
McDermott/Thad Young/Samanic
Poeltl/Zach Collins/Eubanks

:lmao :lmao :lmao

this is the worst Spurs roster I have ever witnessed

Wouldnt surprise me if some of our young guys start asking to be traded

[El Santo]

we got our roster boys:

Murray/Tre Jones/Primo
White/Walker/Vassell
Johnson/Aminu/Weiskamp
McDermott/Thad Young/Samanic
Poeltl/Zach Collins/Eubanks

:lmao :lmao :lmao

this is the worst Spurs roster I have ever witnessed

Wouldnt surprise me if some of our young guys start asking to be traded

[LeBowen]

We all wanted the young guys to get bigger roles, now that all the veterans are gone, our wish is granted.

I wanted Collins, too, but at 30 million a year? Not worth it. He's a good player and a good fit for our roster, but I don't think he'd ever be an all-star in the West.
Idk why are some of you talking about waiving Thad? He's a good rotation player and can even play some minutes at C.

And we'll have $30M cap space again the next year.

Biggest win here is that PATFO didn't waste it on useless scrubs like Markkanen or Oubre.

Now it's on Derrick, DJ and Lonnie to show us what they got, it's about time.

If they don't improve, we're in contention for a top5 pick. Win-win considering Brian Wright's (in)competence.

[NASpurs]

All that's left is to sign Kelly Oubre and be a top 5 bad team.

[pookenstein]

I like the DDR deal. Collins was a pipe dream anyway. Young and Aminu will be off the books next year and now PATFO can't convince themselves to offer Lauri 4/80 or whatever.

[Kurgan]

I hope those two white boys were worth striking out on John Collins. By signing McNugget and the crappy Collins, Spurs took away all their cap flexibility. They could have S&T DeMar AND made an offer to the good Collins. Instead, they used their 50 mil in cap space on garbage players

[KayBee]

We all wanted the young guys to get bigger roles, now that all the veterans are gone, our wish is granted. I wanted Collins, too, but at 30 million a year? Not worth it. He's a good player and a good fit for our roster, but I don't think he'd ever be an all-star in the West. Idk why are some of you talking about waiving Thad? He's a good rotation player and can even play some minutes at C. And we'll have $30M cap space again the next year. Biggest win here is that PATFO didn't waste it on useless scrubs like Markkanen or Oubre. Now it's on Derrick, DJ and Lonnie to show us what they got, it's about time. If they don't improve, we're in contention for a top5 pick. Win-win considering Brian Wright's (in)competence. Uh oh. Common sense alert! Should go over well with the cliff-jumpers.

[baseline bum]

My point was we had news on Collins and ATL agreeing to a deal. I agree with you on the rest. All this cap space and Pop and Wrong couldn’t even trade for HITA. absolutely garbage off-season.

We had news on Atlanta getting shot down on a worse money offer than the Spurs could have made.

[Kurik]

All that's left is to sign Kelly Oubre and be a top 5 bad team.

Sounds good to me, I want the high draft pick.

[scott]

How do we know that the Spurs didn't offer Collins the max and he simply said no?

[baseline bum]

We all wanted the young guys to get bigger roles, now that all the veterans are gone, our wish is granted.

I wanted Collins, too, but at 30 million a year? Not worth it. He's a good player and a good fit for our roster, but I don't think he'd ever be an all-star in the West.
Idk why are some of you talking about waiving Thad? He's a good rotation player and can even play some minutes at C.

And we'll have $30M cap space again the next year.

Biggest win here is that PATFO didn't waste it on useless scrubs like Markkanen or Oubre.

Now it's on Derrick, DJ and Lonnie to show us what they got, it's about time.

If they don't improve, we're in contention for a top5 pick. Win-win considering Brian Wright's (in)competence.

So Collins isn't worth two McDermotts you're saying?

[Kurgan]

All the fluffers rationalized our guard heavy draft picks by insisting that the FO would sign one of Lauri or John Collins to fill the gaping hole we have in our big man rotation. To come away with neither makes the draft even worse in retrospect. Primo better be the next James Harden. Otherwise, it's looking like the worst draft pick in Spurs history.

[RC_Drunkford]

I hope those two white boys were worth striking out on John Collins. By signing McNugget and the crappy Collins, Spurs took away all their cap flexibility. They could have S&T DeMar AND made an offer to the good Collins. Instead, they used their 50 mil in cap space on garbage players

this

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

We had news on Atlanta getting shot down on a worse money offer than the Spurs could have made.

Collins isn’t worth 25 million a season. Look I think the FO sucks but I think it’s clear now we’re going full tank / see what the younguns have or don’t have. As composed this roster will challenge for a top three pick next year and have another 30+ million in cap room to play with for a much better free agent class.

[El Santo]

Even if we get a high pick next year... the front office will get an unknown projected second rounder ... because they slways know how to draft better than other teams....:drunk

[cjw]

To clarify, by agreeing to three-year deals with Collins and McD, the Spurs left themselves the option to acquire those players in a S&T. That means, they could either wrap those players up in a deal for DeRozan or trade someone else for them. I don't really have a lot of time right now, but the Spurs could definitely acquire Collins, Collins and McDermott and S&T DeRozan for something else in the same off-season. That particular combo would require them to trade Murray or White (or some other combo that gets them to the $15-Million range). But if we were talking about like a Simmons trade, that might be necessary anyway.

One example:

Trade for J Collins to give ATL a TE
Trade DeRozan and whatever for Simmons
Trade Murray into the ATL TE while simultaneously trading with Portland and Indiana for McD and Z Collins

Simmons, Jones,
White, Vassell, Primo, Jeffries
McD, Johnson, Wieskamp
Collins, Samanic, KBD
Poeltl, Eubanks, Collins

Would probably let Jeffries go for a vet PG using the room exception.

Again just an example. The Spurs haven't even committed to being a cap-space team yet. They have a lot of options on how to structure their deals.

This is an important distinction. They have left themselves open to working with the Blazers and/or Pacers on expanding into a larger deal but may have to throw pieces their way to incentivize them like second rounders.

No guarantee anything will be figured out, but it’s possible. Could reroute Young or Aminu to one of those teams too and make them S&Ts to stay over cap.

Or just put Young out there as a trade chip at deadline. Aminu can be used to salary match if taking on a contract plus pick.

And if ATL Collins just signs his QO, he will be an UFA next year.

[Robz4000]

Collins was never gonna happen with this retarded FO, I'm just beyond happy that Depression is gone. :lol

[cjw]

To clarify, by agreeing to three-year deals with Collins and McD, the Spurs left themselves the option to acquire those players in a S&T. That means, they could either wrap those players up in a deal for DeRozan or trade someone else for them. I don't really have a lot of time right now, but the Spurs could definitely acquire Collins, Collins and McDermott and S&T DeRozan for something else in the same off-season. That particular combo would require them to trade Murray or White (or some other combo that gets them to the $15-Million range). But if we were talking about like a Simmons trade, that might be necessary anyway.

One example:

Trade for J Collins to give ATL a TE
Trade DeRozan and whatever for Simmons
Trade Murray into the ATL TE while simultaneously trading with Portland and Indiana for McD and Z Collins

Simmons, Jones,
White, Vassell, Primo, Jeffries
McD, Johnson, Wieskamp
Collins, Samanic, KBD
Poeltl, Eubanks, Collins

Would probably let Jeffries go for a vet PG using the room exception.

Again just an example. The Spurs haven't even committed to being a cap-space team yet. They have a lot of options on how to structure their deals.

This is an important distinction. They have left themselves open to working with the Blazers and/or Pacers on expanding into a larger deal but may have to throw pieces their way to incentivize them like second rounders.

No guarantee anything will be figured out, but it’s possible. Could reroute Young or Aminu to one of those teams too and make them S&Ts to stay over cap.

Or just put Young out there as a trade chip at deadline. Aminu can be used to salary match if taking on a contract plus pick.

And if ATL Collins just signs his QO, he will be an UFA next year.

[td4mvp2k]

no Collins. Why the fuck would we want Al Farouq Aminu? :lmao :lmao :lmao fuck this front office
wtf just happened

[Mugen]

John Collins wasn't coming to this shit organization when the Hawks are coming off an ECF (albeit lucky one) :lol

the Hawks would have matched anything the Spurs signed him to (they already offered him 5yr/125mil)...if anything Collins was going to use Wrong to squeeze a couple of extra mil a year but him coming here was a pipe dream

[Darius Bieber]

Sounds good to me, I want the high draft pick.

So that we can waste the high draft pick on second round talent?

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

It looks more and more like the front office went with a plan of signing Chumps for Chet.

[R. DeMurre]

First deal of the off season that I like. Three picks, and two contracts that both end after next year. Thaddeus Young had a great season last year, and is a generally underrated guy. DeRozan being gone tells Derrick, Devin, Lonnie, KJ, and Dejounte that it's time to start getting more aggressive and taking the reins.

[RC_Drunkford]

John Collins wasn't coming to this shit organization when the Hawks are coming off an ECF (albeit lucky one) :lol

the Hawks would have matched anything the Spurs signed him to (they already offered him 5yr/125mil)...if anything Collins was going to use Wrong to squeeze a couple of extra mil a year but him coming here was a pipe dream

not as unrealistic as you think tbh. The Hawks are trying to avoid the luxury tax and extended Young. Signing Collins to the max would put them in the luxury tax from next year on.

[SAGirl]

RIP the J Collins dream

1422651462501470215
It was always very likely he'd stay in ATL anyways.

1422654681466163207

Sidenote: I think Luka Samanic is about to find out he needs to compete harder than last year for minutes.

[LeBowen]

So Collins isn't worth two McDermotts you're saying?

Two and then some. And I don't think he's worth it.
McDermott is a 40% 3pt shooter and will always be easy to trade, maybe even this season.
He'll be a role player. Catch and shoot, run around screens, some cuts and that's it.

John Collins is a flashy player. Everyone remembers the highlights, but what are his actual skills to warrant a max deal?
He's an average defender at best, nothing special. Won't get targeted, but he's too slow to be a defensive stopper on the perimeter and too weak to guard the post.

He's a good 3pt shooter, but he was the guy you let shoot on that Hawks team. He'll hit them, but almost every perimeter shot he makes is wide open.
He's an amazing athlete, but offers absolutely no shot creation. He can't do anything by himself unless it's a huge mismatch.

Idk about you, but I vivdly remember a game from last season and Collins not being able to score on Keldon. Couldn't even move him in the post. He's got no moves.
And we don't have a Trae type of playmaker who'd just feed him lobs and easy dunks.

Again, a good player, but we're so desperate for a big move that we'll accept anything. A borderline Eastern conference all-star like Collins, even.
He'd never make the ASG in the West.


I'd be mad if we signed Markkanen because he's garbage. Same goes for Oubre.
I'd be happy if we got Collins, but what would he actually do for this team?

If Derrick, DJ and Lonnie don't improve now that the veterans are gone, Collins adds nothing.
And then we'd be stuck with his huge contract that's a big overpay. He's not worth more than like $20M per season.

[td4mvp2k]

plz tell me spurs have another move

[Kurgan]

Collins isn’t worth 25 million a season. Look I think the FO sucks but I think it’s clear now we’re going full tank / see what the younguns have or don’t have. As composed this roster will challenge for a top three pick next year and have another 30+ million in cap room to play with for a much better free agent class.

Rather have John Collins at $25 mil over McNugget/crappy Collins at a combined $21 mil.

[RC_Drunkford]

https://twitter.com/BTRowland/status/1422646749357826050?s=20

[SAGirl]

All that's left is to sign Kelly Oubre and be a top 5 bad team.
:lol Thanks for the Lol

[baseline bum]

Collins isn’t worth 25 million a season. Look I think the FO sucks but I think it’s clear now we’re going full tank / see what the younguns have or don’t have. As composed this roster will challenge for a top three pick next year and have another 30+ million in cap room to play with for a much better free agent class.

That offer they made to Collins would have a first year salary of $21.6 million, it's a pretty big lowball. He's easily worth that in a league where Lonzo Ball is making $20 million next year and Evan Fournier $18 million. I think he's easily worth the $28 million base salary the Spurs should have offered.

[SAGirl]

Notable that the Spurs preferred a broken down (and possibly washed up?) Aminu and an expiring Thad Young than Markkanen. Win move vs the tank commander that Lauri has been.

[baseline bum]

John Collins wasn't coming to this shit organization when the Hawks are coming off an ECF (albeit lucky one) :lol

the Hawks would have matched anything the Spurs signed him to (they already offered him 5yr/125mil)...if anything Collins was going to use Wrong to squeeze a couple of extra mil a year but him coming here was a pipe dream

That offer was a lowball, base salary $7 million below what the Spurs could have offered. Between 5 year, $125 million vs 4 year, $119 million, the latter is a much better offer money-wise.

[cd98]

The goal is to be a bad team so we can get our lotto ticket for a player that can take this roster to the next level. By all accounts, next season's draft is supposed to be as good as this one at the top, so now is the time to roll out a line up that will get experience will also losing games.

[timvp]

With the Spurs putting together the CREAM* Team, Markkanen doesn't really fit so I'm skeptical he'd be a part of a DeRozan sign-and-trade. Markkanen has a rep of being aloof, lazy and someone who rolls his eyes at coaches. Thaddeus Young, on the other hand, would fit the CREAM Team. Everyone loves Thad.

So putting my CREAM hat on, I'd suspect something like Thad, Troy Brown Jr. and a second rounder for DeRozan in a sign-and-trade.















(*character over everything)

Pretty good call, my guy.

[baseline bum]

Two and then some. And I don't think he's worth it.
McDermott is a 40% 3pt shooter and will always be easy to trade, maybe even this season.
He'll be a role player. Catch and shoot, run around screens, some cuts and that's it.

John Collins is a flashy player. Everyone remembers the highlights, but what are his actual skills to warrant a max deal?
He's an average defender at best, nothing special. Won't get targeted, but he's too slow to be a defensive stopper on the perimeter and too weak to guard the post.

He's a good 3pt shooter, but he was the guy you let shoot on that Hawks team. He'll hit them, but almost every perimeter shot he makes is wide open.
He's an amazing athlete, but offers absolutely no shot creation. He can't do anything by himself unless it's a huge mismatch.

Idk about you, but I vivdly remember a game from last season and Collins not being able to score on Keldon. Couldn't even move him in the post. He's got no moves.
And we don't have a Trae type of playmaker who'd just feed him lobs and easy dunks.

Again, a good player, but we're so desperate for a big move that we'll accept anything. A borderline Eastern conference all-star like Collins, even.
He'd never make the ASG in the West.


I'd be mad if we signed Markkanen because he's garbage. Same goes for Oubre.
I'd be happy if we got Collins, but what would he actually do for this team?

If Derrick, DJ and Lonnie don't improve now that the veterans are gone, Collins adds nothing.
And then we'd be stuck with his huge contract that's a big overpay. He's not worth more than like $20M per season.

Two McDermotts plus $1 million is what Collins would have cost.

[spurraider21]

That offer was a lowball, base salary $7 million below what the Spurs could have offered. Between 5 year, $125 million vs 4 year, $119 million, the latter is a much better offer money-wise.
and gets him back on the market a year earlier. collins at age 27 would probably get more than 30mil given what the cap is likely to look like

[duncan2150]

I hope those two white boys were worth striking out on John Collins. By signing McNugget and the crappy Collins, Spurs took away all their cap flexibility. They could have S&T DeMar AND made an offer to the good Collins. Instead, they used their 50 mil in cap space on garbage players


I think they talk or try to with collins camp before going on mc dermott, collins and ST Derozan. I agree with you but it's not so simple.

[RC_Drunkford]

Two and then some. And I don't think he's worth it.
McDermott is a 40% 3pt shooter and will always be easy to trade, maybe even this season.
He'll be a role player. Catch and shoot, run around screens, some cuts and that's it.

John Collins is a flashy player. Everyone remembers the highlights, but what are his actual skills to warrant a max deal?
He's an average defender at best, nothing special. Won't get targeted, but he's too slow to be a defensive stopper on the perimeter and too weak to guard the post.

He's a good 3pt shooter, but he was the guy you let shoot on that Hawks team. He'll hit them, but almost every perimeter shot he makes is wide open.
He's an amazing athlete, but offers absolutely no shot creation. He can't do anything by himself unless it's a huge mismatch.

Idk about you, but I vivdly remember a game from last season and Collins not being able to score on Keldon. Couldn't even move him in the post. He's got no moves.
And we don't have a Trae type of playmaker who'd just feed him lobs and easy dunks.

Again, a good player, but we're so desperate for a big move that we'll accept anything. A borderline Eastern conference all-star like Collins, even.
He'd never make the ASG in the West.


I'd be mad if we signed Markkanen because he's garbage. Same goes for Oubre.
I'd be happy if we got Collins, but what would he actually do for this team?

If Derrick, DJ and Lonnie don't improve now that the veterans are gone, Collins adds nothing.
And then we'd be stuck with his huge contract that's a big overpay. He's not worth more than like $20M per season.

I disagree completely. You gotta look at what this team needs.

- size at the 4
- rebounding
- weakside shotblocking
- 3-point shooting

He's the perfect fit for this roster. Especially in a pick & roll with White where he could catch lobs galore. He can run the floor, space the floor, shoots 40% from 3, grabs 8-10 boards per game and was on a Hawks squad where he didn't get a lot of touches. He got his points in the flow of the offense. He'd fit perfect with the rest of the squad and would fix pretty much every issue in the starting line up. The guy put up 20/10 the season before last. I don't know what more you want? I'd rather give him 28 million than to spread that money on Thad Young and Doug McDermott tbh. This team needs high quality starters more than anything.

Besides that he's only 23, so there's obviously still a lot of upside left.

[LeBowen]

Two McDermotts plus $1 million is what Collins would have cost.

That's your response?

I'll make it short then.
Which star player skill does John Collins have? Skill that would warrant giving him a max deal?

I'll say it again, a player who can't create anything by himself on offense and is an average defender at best isn't worth the max.
It's just that we're desperate for a big move. I would've liked if we got him, but it didn't happen. Move on.

[baseline bum]

Only good thing about free agency is at least the pick the Spurs got from Chicago is in 2025 when Brian Wrong will have long been fired.

[MannyIsGod]

Those of you thinking that this is a tank are 100% wrong. This will not be a tank until they start moving players like Derek White and dejounte Murray. There's enough talent on this team as it's constructed right now to at least win 30-plus games. The strategy going into the season is obviously to see what the young players have and if any of them can make a leap but this is 100% not a tank.

[cd98]

I can see the Spurs trading White. Murray is still in range of the trajectory of the youth, but White is what, 27? I think he is someone to trade because he's a little older than the rest of the roster and could fetch something back that is good. I mean, you now how a Chicago pick to package and an expiring contract.

[baseline bum]

That's your response?

I'll make it short then.
Which star player skill does John Collins have? Skill that would warrant giving him a max deal?

I'll say it again, a player who can't create anything by himself on offense and is an average defender at best isn't worth the max.
It's just that we're desperate for a big move. I would've liked if we got him, but it didn't happen. Move on.

Make up your mind. You shit all over Collins and then say you would've liked getting him?

[vy65]

Those of you thinking that this is a tank are 100% wrong. This will not be a tank until they start moving players like Derek White and dejounte Murray. There's enough talent on this team as it's constructed right now to at least win 30-plus games. The strategy going into the season is obviously to see what the young players have and if any of them can make a leap but this is 100% not a tank.

God help us if you're right

[Kurik]

Only good thing about free agency is at least the pick the Spurs got from Chicago is in 2025 when Brian Wrong will have long been fired.

Bulls will be coming off a year of 34 year old Derozan as well.

[Darius Bieber]

Talen Horton-Tucker staying with the Lakers - I know he was on timvp's list.

[LeBowen]

I disagree completely. You gotta look at what this team needs.

- size at the 4
- rebounding
- weakside shotblocking
- 3-point shooting

He's the perfect fit for this roster. Especially in a pick & roll with White where he could catch lobs galore. He can run the floor, space the floor, shoots 40% from 3, grabs 8-10 boards per game and was on a Hawks squad where he didn't get a lot of touches. He got his points in the flow of the offense. He'd fit perfect with the rest of the squad and would fix pretty much every issue in the starting line up. The guy put up 20/10 the season before last. I don't know what more you want? I'd rather give him 28 million than to spread that money on Thad Young and Doug McDermott tbh. This team needs high quality starters more than anything.

Besides that he's only 23, so there's obviously still a lot of upside left.


Agreed on the fit, but we have different opinions about if he's worth it and that's it.
I don't think his skillset is worth the max, you do, we'll leave it at that.

Btw, this discussion is pointless because the Hawks offered him 125/5.

[td4mvp2k]

wouldnt be surprised if white or murray get dealt

[Sugus]

:lol the meltdown when DePression is resigned is gonna be historic, and I'll be right there with everyone losing my shit.

Gimme my credit, Robz, I told ya we weren't bringing DePression back ;)

LESSS GOOOO :smokin:smokin:smokin:smokin:smokin

[slick'81]

Pick is protected but oh well. spurs on that rebuild smoke now

[Kurgan]

That's your response?

I'll make it short then.
Which star player skill does John Collins have? Skill that would warrant giving him a max deal?

I'll say it again, a player who can't create anything by himself on offense and is an average defender at best isn't worth the max.
It's just that we're desperate for a big move. I would've liked if we got him, but it didn't happen. Move on.

John Collins is much better than the combined haul of McNugget/crappy Collins/Thad Young/Aminu.

[baseline bum]

Bulls will be coming off a year of 34 year old Derozan as well.

Bulls front office would be competent enough to move him in his final year tbh

[baseline bum]

Agreed on the fit, but we have different opinions about if he's worth it and that's it.
I don't think his skillset is worth the max, you do, we'll leave it at that.

Btw, this discussion is pointless because the Hawks offered him 125/5.

5 year, $125 million was a lowball. Spurs could have offered 4 year, $119 million.

[baseline bum]

Pick is protected but oh well. spurs on that rebuild smoke now

Top 29 protected?

[baseline bum]

plz tell me spurs have another move

Austin or Seattle?

[Robz4000]

Gimme my credit, Robz, I told ya we weren't bringing DePression back ;)

LESSS GOOOO :smokin:smokin:smokin:smokin:smokin


:danceclub:danceclub:danceclub

[objective]

Spurs are capped out, for anyone thinking they could still sign anyone to anything over the room exception

[tbdog]

So, who do the spurs target with the extra 10 or so million left?

[RC_Drunkford]

Agreed on the fit, but we have different opinions about if he's worth it and that's it.
I don't think his skillset is worth the max, you do, we'll leave it at that.

Btw, this discussion is pointless because the Hawks offered him 125/5.

It's ok. But his max is not the supermax. 28 million in this league are nowhere near max money. It's just the max that he can get at this point. The supermax contracts are 40+ million, so to me 28 million is right around his value

[LeBowen]

5 year, $125 million was a lowball. Spurs could have offered 4 year, $119 million.

Btw, let me try and spin it this way.

Is Collins worth double of what's DJ getting?
15.5/7/5.5 while being one of the better guard defenders in the league?

It's not as simple as looking at the stats and trying to put a price on players.

But it's all behind us now, there's nothing left but hope that some of the young guys develop into legit players.

[lefty20]

Idk why so many posters are hung up on John Collins. Signing him with the max would literally make Spurs exactly what we all feared they'd be with DDR, a treadmill team with a seriously overpayed player on a multi year deal.

[LeBowen]

It's ok. But his max is not the supermax. 28 million in this league are nowhere near max money. It's just the max that he can get at this point. The supermax contracts are 40+ million, so to me 28 million is right around his value

Yeah, I'm a bit conservative when it comes to salaries.
Throwing 30M+ contracts just like that...nah.

I don't think that there's more than maybe 5 players worth the supermax.

[Kurik]

Pick is protected but oh well. spurs on that rebuild smoke now

Where did you see that?

[slick'81]

So, who do the spurs target with the extra 10 or so million left?


:lol

[duncan2150]

Idk why so many posters are hung up on John Collins. Signing him with the max would literally make Spurs exactly what we all feared they'd be with DDR, a treadmill team with a seriously overpayed player on a multi year deal.


+1

[Darius Bieber]

Spurs have around $4-6 Mill left on the cap, with one roster spot left. Looks like this is the roster we are rolling with. Legit, probably the worst roster in all of the NBA, and even some G-League teams could beat it. Tank is on.

[spurspl]

kendrick nunn to lakers 10mil/2, thats a steal

[slick'81]

Where did you see that?

per nbc sports


Aminu has never been all that fantasy-relevant, and that won't change in his age-31 season. The Spurs will also be securing a protected first-round pick and two second-round picks as part of the DeMar DeRozan sign-and-trade deal.

[cd98]

Spurs have around $4-6 Mill left on the cap, with one roster spot left. Looks like this is the roster we are rolling with. Legit, probably the worst roster in all of the NBA, and even some G-League teams could beat it. Tank is on.

Come on, this team is way better than any G-League team. And the goal here is to lose. Pop did for Duncan. Now it's time to do it again. The worse the roster, the better. That said, we'll probably finish at the play in because some teams like Sacramento are just so good at the tank and underperforming.

[Sugus]

Idk why so many posters are hung up on John Collins. Signing him with the max would literally make Spurs exactly what we all feared they'd be with DDR, a treadmill team with a seriously overpayed player on a multi year deal.

Yeah, I wanted him kind of, but it'd certainly have won the Spurs many more games than they needed if they were to go for a full-on tank. Nowhere land as you say. Collins is a good player, but hardly someone I'm shedding tears over - hell, we'll probably be looking to draft someone in his same mold, hopefully even better, with our pick next season.

LFG Spurs!

[Sugus]

We all wanted the young guys to get bigger roles, now that all the veterans are gone, our wish is granted.

I wanted Collins, too, but at 30 million a year? Not worth it. He's a good player and a good fit for our roster, but I don't think he'd ever be an all-star in the West.
Idk why are some of you talking about waiving Thad? He's a good rotation player and can even play some minutes at C.

And we'll have $30M cap space again the next year.

Biggest win here is that PATFO didn't waste it on useless scrubs like Markkanen or Oubre.

Now it's on Derrick, DJ and Lonnie to show us what they got, it's about time.

If they don't improve, we're in contention for a top5 pick. Win-win considering Brian Wright's (in)competence.

Great take :tu

[Atl Spur]

I don’t think we’re done.

[TD 21]

All the fluffers rationalized our guard heavy draft picks by insisting that the FO would sign one of Lauri or John Collins to fill the gaping hole we have in our big man rotation. To come away with neither makes the draft even worse in retrospect. Primo better be the next James Harden. Otherwise, it's looking like the worst draft pick in Spurs history.

It is funny that with $48M in cap space and a glaring need at the starting four, they somehow managed to end up still not filling a spot that's mostly been an issue for about 15 years (when last Duncan could still primarily masquerade as one).

The other need was a sixth man/combo guard type, which also remains unfilled.

[Robz4000]

The FO is still a dumpster fire and the McDermott/Collins signings sucked, but at least they fulfilled the #1 thing this offseason: not bringing back DePression.

[Trill Clinton]

The Kawhi trade actually turned out good in the long run and it aint even close to being completehttps://www.thecoli.com/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/win.png

[r0drig0lac]

John Collins is much better than the combined haul of McNugget/crappy Collins/Thad Young/Aminu.

easily, this forum is weird

[DPG21920]

Great take :tu

That’s the “good” side but it was bare min imo.

You could have let the vets walk as FA, that took no effort and should have been obvious. But you have a lottery pick and 50M in cap space and you land:

29 year old bad defender who literally conflicts with both the rebuild and cap space you seemed to value next year in Doug

Injured big man but at least hes young

Old Thad and Aminu

And a top 10 protected pick that conveys 4 years from now.

Is that a really creative good job for having 50M blank slate and a lottery pick? I’d say no. It’s not a disaster, but it’s bare minimum stuff and quite wasteful overall with still some conflicting plans which is worrisome.

Now, if the Collins deal is fully non guaranteed and Doug is team option 3rd year and they flip Thad/Aminu that can change things.

But as of now, 50M in space and a lottery pick turning into no good players along side your youth and one first 4 years away is hard for me to celebrate as a win. But the youth is freed so that is good (depending on how much Pop now relies on the new vets in Doug/Thad/Aminu).

Again - simple questions: Did they truly accelerate their future with players/picks in a meaningful way? Did they get closer to the playoffs?

Or when it’s all said and done are they closer to exactly where they have been: Seed 8-12? If the answer is 8-12, despite freeing the youth up, you have to ask? Was anything they did worth it?

[DPG21920]

The Kawhi trade actually turned out good in the long run and it aint even close to being completehttps://www.thecoli.com/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/win.png

What bruh? Kawhi got a title and two max deals.

Spurs missed the playoffs, are dead last in the division and have no franchise player or chance of making the playoffs anytime soon. Yeah,worked out great lol

[DPG21920]

You can renounce DeRozan and still sign and trade him. In theory, if DDR and Lauri were S&T for say 8M each, SA would still have 20M to offer Collins. Obviously that is so unrealistic it’s not worth discussing, but it’s possible.

However, as I mentioned in my 3 team trade scenario which I think may be a likely framework IF SA really wants Collins:

SA Gets: Collins + Thad Young + Top 5 protected pick (likely from CHI)

ATL Gets: Dejounte Murray

CHI Gets: DeRozan (and then they still have Lauri they can keep or sign and trade as well).

I think CHI easily does that if they are serious about wanting DDR. Giving up only Thad + a pick is a no brainer IMO.

ATL very likely does it if they are truly willing to let Collins walk anyways; that’s a no brainer.

Question really is: Does SA do this? Do they even want Collins at his max? Are they willing to trade Murray for a lottery pick (or maybe just outside of lottery)?

Outside of the Collins part - called the Bulls package and why they would do it pretty well :tu

[Mugen]

What bruh? Kawhi got a title and two max deals.

Spurs missed the playoffs, are dead last in the division and have no franchise player or chance of making the playoffs anytime soon. Yeah,worked out great lol

Don't forget, Brian paid Masai for this privilege :lol

[Robz4000]

Don't forget, Brian paid Masai for this privilege :lol

:lmao

[Fusternino]

I actually think that's a great trade?

[TD 21]

Or when it’s all said and done are they closer to exactly where they have been: Seed 8-12? If the answer is 8-12, despite freeing the youth up, you have to ask? Was anything they did worth it?

They'll be in the inner circle for the race for the 1st pick along with: Rockets, Thunder, Magic. Other candidates: Cavaliers, Pistons, Timberwolves, Kings.

[Trill Clinton]

What bruh? Kawhi got a title and two max deals.

Spurs missed the playoffs, are dead last in the division and have no franchise player or chance of making the playoffs anytime soon. Yeah,worked out great lol

We got rid of a cancer who caught the franchise by surprise...can't put a price tag on peace of mind. In return we got Mr. Olympian Keldon Johnson, potential bargaining chip contracts (aminu/young), some future 2nds(meh) and a future 1st. We wonhttps://www.thecoli.com/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/win.png

Trust the process.

[ace3g]

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1264902234703265794/lC3YnIYF_normal.jpg
Adrian Wojnarowski @wojespn
(https://twitter.com/wojespn) 5m (https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1422687190073679873)
Morris is agreeing to a one-year deal with the Heat, source tells ESPN.

Adrian Wojnarowski @wojespn
(https://twitter.com/wojespn)

Free agent F Markieff Morris is finalizing a deal with the Miami Heat, sources tell ESPN.

[Sugus]

That’s the “good” side but it was bare min imo.

You could have let the vets walk as FA, that took no effort and should have been obvious. But you have a lottery pick and 50M in cap space and you land:

29 year old bad defender who literally conflicts with both the rebuild and cap space you seemed to value next year in Doug

Injured big man but at least hes young

Old Thad and Aminu

And a top 10 protected pick that conveys 4 years from now.

Is that a really creative good job for having 50M blank slate and a lottery pick? I’d say no. It’s not a disaster, but it’s bare minimum stuff and quite wasteful overall with still some conflicting plans which is worrisome.

Now, if the Collins deal is fully non guaranteed and Doug is team option 3rd year and they flip Thad/Aminu that can change things.

But as of now, 50M in space and a lottery pick turning into no good players along side your youth and one first 4 years away is hard for me to celebrate as a win. But the youth is freed so that is good (depending on how much Pop now relies on the new vets in Doug/Thad/Aminu).

Again - simple questions: Did they truly accelerate their future with players/picks in a meaningful way? Did they get closer to the playoffs?

Or when it’s all said and done are they closer to exactly where they have been: Seed 8-12? If the answer is 8-12, despite freeing the youth up, you have to ask? Was anything they did worth it?

E: I apologize in advance for the length of this post my guy, I'll try and keep 'em shorter for next time, wasn't checking while writing :tu

At this point, Dude, it's clear to me that you're kind of hell-bent on looking at everything the Spurs do in the worst possible light. Possibly to confirm your pre-existing biases. I wouldn't take the time to answer you if I didn't believe you truly want to discuss in earnest, because you have troll-levels of bad optics regarding any move the Spurs do, it's astounding tbh.

Letting the vets walk in FA was not obvious, as you want to make it seem, and hardly a "given"; you yourself have said the Spurs have been failing to pick a path, and in that vein of not picking, re-signing the vets was absolutely a possibility. So, far from brushing it off, why don't you acknowledge that this was a big step in the right direction? Not to mention, you and I both know you'd absolutely be complaining about bad asset management if the Spurs really let DDR walk for nothing; I've read previous posts by you complaining about the same thing. Now that they do get something for him, you wanna get picky on the specifics? Come on... SA ain't LA. No endless possibilities here.

Secondly, I don't understand your insistence on McBuckets somehow being an "impediment" to the tank/direction and "conflicting plans". He's just a vet... A drop in the bucket in the big scheme of things. I think I've told you already - we might have to agree to disagree here - but I don't believe you can have a roster filled with under-25yo prospects all running around like headless chickens, and no vet presences on the team to right the locker room ship. And we signed the guy on a small-market-value deal, it's not like we maxed him and expect the world from him, he can literally come off the bench, Patty Mills style. I'll flip your question - would you rather have had McBuckets, or Thrillz, filling that shooter vet role? I sure know my answer :lol

I understand thinking "oh, they could've done this, could've done that". But we don't know anything that goes behind close doors regarding FOs - I'm not about to start grading trades and signings on the belief that random, self-created scenarios should've happened, but didn't. Maybe that's just the optimist in me, I don't really care - I have no information to believe or disprove it. From the intel we have, the trades (except for Zollins, I'm not on board with that turd ass even if he's healthy) don't look nearly as bad as your apocalyptic posts make them seem.

It's why we started out the convo on my remark that you "drown in a glass of water". And here we are, with the biggest news by far in the off-season that DeRozan, a player almost universally loathed in this forum and fanbase, is finally off the team... And you're still bitchin' about things? You see where I was coming from? Seriously, Dude, I understand things might not have worked out perfectly to your scenarios, but from where I'm standing, we're looking pretty fuckin' good right now.

No vets to hog the ball down anymore, with the Mid 3 all gone; an entire "prove it" season for the young core to finally see what we have in Lonnie, DJ, Vassell, White, everyone; a lot of short-term deals aiming at freeing up a lot of cap space (I think it was $30M?) for next season's FA class which by all accounts seems to be better than this one; and the prospect of a tank, to go exactly for the player the team has always been missing (and ST has been obnoxiously clear that we're missing): a true lottery talent, #1 option.

-

So let me answer your questions: yes, Dude, they absolutely sped up the rebuild with these moves, to the point that I have to think you're purposefully obtuse if you don't see it. They definitely moved away from the playoffs, losing DeRozan alone was gonna do that, nevermind signing a redshirt player and no other big names. And no, they certainly (hopefully! we never know...) have moved away from the 8-12 seed "purgatory" state every team loathes. Like, seriously, you're missing the forest for the tree if these are real questions you're asking yourself....

We still don't know if the Spurs have more moves up their sleeve, but assuming this is "it", I'd give this off-season a resoundingly positive mark. Could've been better? You bet. But it's mighty fucking good, and a sight for sore eyes for those of us (especially you, season ticket holder!) that have been subject to three straight seasons of the DeRozan-LMA Midrange Circus team. Praise the Lord, tbh.

[offset formation]

I'm sure DeRozan is still trying to convince someone he's still worth $15+ million.

28M

[LakerHater]

If that trade w tha bulls for Young & Aminu, who are older, was good. How do u thnk they're gonna do w pop :huh?? How many expiring contact dealers have done well w pop in their lone season under pop??

Ppl are high on them but if they DNT succeed, ya think mayb it's pop? The league has changed allot, pop hasn't!

[TheChillFactor]

https://twitter.com/TheNBACentral/status/1422647721094262785

Is this yall king?

lmao he is holding out with nowhere to go.

you idiots wanted to max him and just give him a position in our core before you knew the first fucking thing about him.

[RC_Drunkford]

E: I apologize in advance for the length of this post my guy, I'll try and keep 'em shorter for next time, wasn't checking while writing :tu

Don't worry. Nobody reads the essays you write. I just skip them like everybody else :lol

[ace3g]

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1197929409044504576/nKXnm0aN_normal.jpg
Shams Charania ShamsCharania
(https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania) 17s (https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1422701496420995076)
Free agent guard George Hill plans to sign with the Bucks after clearing waivers and the opening of league year Aug. 6, sources tell @TheAthletic (https://twitter.com/TheAthletic/) @Stadium (https://twitter.com/Stadium/). The veteran PG is set to return to Milwaukee.

[Trill Clinton]

E: I apologize in advance for the length of this post my guy, I'll try and keep 'em shorter for next time, wasn't checking while writing :tu

At this point, Dude, it's clear to me that you're kind of hell-bent on looking at everything the Spurs do in the worst possible light. Possibly to confirm your pre-existing biases. I wouldn't take the time to answer you if I didn't believe you truly want to discuss in earnest, because you have troll-levels of bad optics regarding any move the Spurs do, it's astounding tbh.

Letting the vets walk in FA was not obvious, as you want to make it seem, and hardly a "given"; you yourself have said the Spurs have been failing to pick a path, and in that vein of not picking, re-signing the vets was absolutely a possibility. So, far from brushing it off, why don't you acknowledge that this was a big step in the right direction? Not to mention, you and I both know you'd absolutely be complaining about bad asset management if the Spurs really let DDR walk for nothing; I've read previous posts by you complaining about the same thing. Now that they do get something for him, you wanna get picky on the specifics? Come on... SA ain't LA. No endless possibilities here.

Secondly, I don't understand your insistence on McBuckets somehow being an "impediment" to the tank/direction and "conflicting plans". He's just a vet... A drop in the bucket in the big scheme of things. I think I've told you already - we might have to agree to disagree here - but I don't believe you can have a roster filled with under-25yo prospects all running around like headless chickens, and no vet presences on the team to right the locker room ship. And we signed the guy on a small-market-value deal, it's not like we maxed him and expect the world from him, he can literally come off the bench, Patty Mills style. I'll flip your question - would you rather have had McBuckets, or Thrillz, filling that shooter vet role? I sure know my answer :lol

I understand thinking "oh, they could've done this, could've done that". But we don't know anything that goes behind close doors regarding FOs - I'm not about to start grading trades and signings on the belief that random, self-created scenarios should've happened, but didn't. Maybe that's just the optimist in me, I don't really care - I have no information to believe or disprove it. From the intel we have, the trades (except for Zollins, I'm not on board with that turd ass even if he's healthy) don't look nearly as bad as your apocalyptic posts make them seem.

It's why we started out the convo on my remark that you "drown in a glass of water". And here we are, with the biggest news by far in the off-season that DeRozan, a player almost universally loathed in this forum and fanbase, is finally off the team... And you're still bitchin' about things? You see where I was coming from? Seriously, Dude, I understand things might not have worked out perfectly to your scenarios, but from where I'm standing, we're looking pretty fuckin' good right now.

No vets to hog the ball down anymore, with the Mid 3 all gone; an entire "prove it" season for the young core to finally see what we have in Lonnie, DJ, Vassell, White, everyone; a lot of short-term deals aiming at freeing up a lot of cap space (I think it was $30M?) for next season's FA class which by all accounts seems to be better than this one; and the prospect of a tank, to go exactly for the player the team has always been missing (and ST has been obnoxiously clear that we're missing): a true lottery talent, #1 option.

-

So let me answer your questions: yes, Dude, they absolutely sped up the rebuild with these moves, to the point that I have to think you're purposefully obtuse if you don't see it. They definitely moved away from the playoffs, losing DeRozan alone was gonna do that, nevermind signing a redshirt player and no other big names. And no, they certainly (hopefully! we never know...) have moved away from the 8-12 seed "purgatory" state every team loathes. Like, seriously, you're missing the forest for the tree if these are real questions you're asking yourself....

We still don't know if the Spurs have more moves up their sleeve, but assuming this is "it", I'd give this off-season a resoundingly positive mark. Could've been better? You bet. But it's mighty fucking good, and a sight for sore eyes for those of us (especially you, season ticket holder!) that have been subject to three straight seasons of the DeRozan-LMA Midrange Circus team. Praise the Lord, tbh.

Excellent post

[DPG21920]

E: I apologize in advance for the length of this post my guy, I'll try and keep 'em shorter for next time, wasn't checking while writing :tu

At this point, Dude, it's clear to me that you're kind of hell-bent on looking at everything the Spurs do in the worst possible light. Possibly to confirm your pre-existing biases. I wouldn't take the time to answer you if I didn't believe you truly want to discuss in earnest, because you have troll-levels of bad optics regarding any move the Spurs do, it's astounding tbh.

It’s all good - I definitely do want to discuss it in earnest. I dont troll. I may be witty, but it’s not trolling. I don’t think I look at it in the worst possible light at all. I for years though a have been beating a drum and been very clear on the path(s) I thought SA should take. I’ve explained my logic and all possible caveats.

When it doesn’t happen, it’s not me seeking out a way of being negative; it’s me having clear ideas and things not happening that way. Beyond that, I feel like I also admit the good aspects too and I dont think many would argue even what you call seeking out negatives as illogical or unreasonable given said context over the years leading up to this pivotal moment.




Letting the vets walk in FA was not obvious, as you want to make it seem, and hardly a "given"; you yourself have said the Spurs have been failing to pick a path, and in that vein of not picking, re-signing the vets was absolutely a possibility. So, far from brushing it off, why don't you acknowledge that this was a big step in the right direction? Not to mention, you and I both know you'd absolutely be complaining about bad asset management if the Spurs really let DDR walk for nothing; I've read previous posts by you complaining about the same thing. Now that they do get something for him, you wanna get picky on the specifics? Come on... SA ain't LA. No endless possibilities here.

Again, context is needed. When I saw obvious, of course I am not talking about the FO :lol. Nothing is obvious to them. I mean to most people with a brain outside of the FO and around the league. Secondly, I absolutely was on the trade DDR/Rudy/Mills train for something - but it was not just for the sake of it or for anything. I advocated for this 2 years ago when they actually had more value. I wanted SA to get to this spot quicker, have more years to decide on the youth and to get as much draft capital to make moves with.

So now that they waited until the last second, nuked their values? Yeah I am going to nitpick because the situation changed and getting something for them now vs 2 years ago now comes at the expense of cap space. Huge difference and key context.


Secondly, I don't understand your insistence on McBuckets somehow being an "impediment" to the tank/direction and "conflicting plans". He's just a vet... A drop in the bucket in the big scheme of things. I think I've told you already - we might have to agree to disagree here - but I don't believe you can have a roster filled with under-25yo prospects all running around like headless chickens, and no vet presences on the team to right the locker room ship. And we signed the guy on a small-market-value deal, it's not like we maxed him and expect the world from him, he can literally come off the bench, Patty Mills style. I'll flip your question - would you rather have had McBuckets, or Thrillz, filling that shooter vet role? I sure know my answer :lol

Again context matters. I never said “only youth under 25” or that McBuckets doesn’t help the youth. Never. I said it’s conflicting strategies. It’s crystal clear SA prioritized youth and cap flexibility next year (not signing Collins or Lauri or anyone to a huge multi year deal). They did a S&T with strictly expiring contracts. So again, does Doug at 29 fit the timeline of growing with the youth? No. Does he fit the strategy of maximizing cap space next year? No. That’s conflicting and I dont see how that is debatable.

You may want to debate if he is WORTH conflicting the strategy for (he isn’t), but there is no debating it shows a lack of cohesive plan IMO. I would even be fine with Doug at 25M a year….if it was one year. AT least that makes sense with their other moves. As of now, rushing to sign Doug who is older and sucks on defense and punting cap space for that? Yeah, makes no sense with with the subsequent moves they made. Thats not being negative that is truth.



I understand thinking "oh, they could've done this, could've done that". But we don't know anything that goes behind close doors regarding FOs - I'm not about to start grading trades and signings on the belief that random, self-created scenarios should've happened, but didn't. Maybe that's just the optimist in me, I don't really care - I have no information to believe or disprove it. From the intel we have, the trades (except for Zollins, I'm not on board with that turd ass even if he's healthy) don't look nearly as bad as your apocalyptic posts make them seem.

It's why we started out the convo on my remark that you "drown in a glass of water". And here we are, with the biggest news by far in the off-season that DeRozan, a player almost universally loathed in this forum and fanbase, is finally off the team... And you're still bitchin' about things? You see where I was coming from? Seriously, Dude, I understand things might not have worked out perfectly to your scenarios, but from where I'm standing, we're looking pretty fuckin' good right now.

You can use words like apocalyptic posts and that’s all fun :lol but it’s not reality. Re-read my posts…I have routinely said, they avoided any costly mistakes. That they at least avoided big landmines. That is not apocalyptic at all. That’s reasonable and also true. That doesnt change the other critics though and all the meat they continue to leave on the bone. We dont know all the deals; you’re right. But we know its’ a results business and they failed to trade any vets when they had value, missed the playoffs, ran back the same team, missed playoffs again then had 50M in cap space and a lottery pick.

I am sorry, but that isn’t good enough job no matter what; even if they did “ok”.


No vets to hog the ball down anymore, with the Mid 3 all gone; an entire "prove it" season for the young core to finally see what we have in Lonnie, DJ, Vassell, White, everyone; a lot of short-term deals aiming at freeing up a lot of cap space (I think it was $30M?) for next season's FA class which by all accounts seems to be better than this one; and the prospect of a tank, to go exactly for the player the team has always been missing (and ST has been obnoxiously clear that we're missing): a true lottery talent, #1 option.

Agree - Ive said freeing the youth was the way for years now and great, the finally did it. All good there and no beef. Although they did add back 3 vets, 2 of which can’t shoot.

But the cap space stuff? yeah, that’s where it gets debatable. Sounds great to say “30M still!” But in reality if that was their plan to maximize space they failed. They should have 50M next year and now put themselves in a corner IF they need it to have to dump Collins and Doug? Why? Why paint yourself into that corner for no good reason…sign one year deal guys, your are losing anyways, and dont risk 22M in cap space for trades/free agents for the likes of Collins and Doug. It makes no sense no matter how you look at it and again, thats no being negative; it’s truth.


So let me answer your questions: yes, Dude, they absolutely sped up the rebuild with these moves, to the point that I have to think you're purposefully obtuse if you don't see it. They definitely moved away from the playoffs, losing DeRozan alone was gonna do that, nevermind signing a redshirt player and no other big names. And no, they certainly (hopefully! we never know...) have moved away from the 8-12 seed "purgatory" state every team loathes. Like, seriously, you're missing the forest for the tree if these are real questions you're asking yourself....

We still don't know if the Spurs have more moves up their sleeve, but assuming this is "it", I'd give this off-season a resoundingly positive mark. Could've been better? You bet. But it's mighty fucking good, and a sight for sore eyes for those of us (especially you, season ticket holder!) that have been subject to three straight seasons of the DeRozan-LMA Midrange Circus team. Praise the Lord, tbh.

Context: They speed up the rebuild in your mind because DDR/Mills/Rudy are gone, but they were all FA. SA didn’t have to do anything for them to go. When I say “speed up rebuild” I am talking about having 50M in cap space + a lottery pick. Did they use that treasure trove of assets to speed up their rebuild and give them selves a brighter future?

There is no way in hell you can say, IMO respectfully, that this is a resounding success. That is an absolutely ludicrous position to take. It’s like 100x the inverse of you calling me negative :lol.

They did ok. They did bare min. They also squandered an amazing opportunity to really do more for the franchise here even if it didn’t set them back too much either.

[offset formation]

Those of you thinking that this is a tank are 100% wrong. This will not be a tank until they start moving players like Derek White and dejounte Murray. There's enough talent on this team as it's constructed right now to at least win 30-plus games. The strategy going into the season is obviously to see what the young players have and if any of them can make a leap but this is 100% not a tank.

I agree but the fact that you have to explain that we are not in tank mode tells you all you need to know.

The fact the Spurs wasted 3 yrs on contracts for McDermott, an injured Collins, and two other role players to eat up 44 of 50 million dollars is an abject failure.

Just fucking abysmal stuff.

[offset formation]

Idk why so many posters are hung up on John Collins. Signing him with the max would literally make Spurs exactly what we all feared they'd be with DDR, a treadmill team with a seriously overpayed player on a multi year deal.

dude we have McDermott and Collins on 3 yr deals that ate up HALF of our cap space.

[RC_Drunkford]

there are legitimate reasons to think the team might perform better by replacing DeRozan with either Young or McDermott in the starting line up tbh. DeRozan's production is easily replaceable by playing a 3-point shooter or capable defender instead. Bench unit should be worse though

[lefty20]

dude we have McDermott and Collins on 3 yr deals that ate up HALF of our cap space.

And which superstar did we have waiting on the wings to spend that cap space on? None!

We're not the Lakers. Superstars are not gonna come here until we have a one of our own on the roster. Meaning we gotta draft one first and the best way to do that is getting a top 5 pick. Spending max cap on the likes of Collins actually hurts the tank, because it moves towards the path of becoming a treadmill team.

As far as signing McBuckets and Collins. Neither one moves the needle for this team as constructed. McBuckets is provides vet presence. As far as Collins, he may not even play till after the all-star break and is his deal even fully guaranteed?

[SAGirl]

E: I apologize in advance for the length of this post my guy, I'll try and keep 'em shorter for next time, wasn't checking while writing :tu

At this point, Dude, it's clear to me that you're kind of hell-bent on looking at everything the Spurs do in the worst possible light. Possibly to confirm your pre-existing biases. I wouldn't take the time to answer you if I didn't believe you truly want to discuss in earnest, because you have troll-levels of bad optics regarding any move the Spurs do, it's astounding tbh.

Letting the vets walk in FA was not obvious, as you want to make it seem, and hardly a "given"; you yourself have said the Spurs have been failing to pick a path, and in that vein of not picking, re-signing the vets was absolutely a possibility. So, far from brushing it off, why don't you acknowledge that this was a big step in the right direction? Not to mention, you and I both know you'd absolutely be complaining about bad asset management if the Spurs really let DDR walk for nothing; I've read previous posts by you complaining about the same thing. Now that they do get something for him, you wanna get picky on the specifics? Come on... SA ain't LA. No endless possibilities here.

Secondly, I don't understand your insistence on McBuckets somehow being an "impediment" to the tank/direction and "conflicting plans". He's just a vet... A drop in the bucket in the big scheme of things. I think I've told you already - we might have to agree to disagree here - but I don't believe you can have a roster filled with under-25yo prospects all running around like headless chickens, and no vet presences on the team to right the locker room ship. And we signed the guy on a small-market-value deal, it's not like we maxed him and expect the world from him, he can literally come off the bench, Patty Mills style. I'll flip your question - would you rather have had McBuckets, or Thrillz, filling that shooter vet role? I sure know my answer :lol

I understand thinking "oh, they could've done this, could've done that". But we don't know anything that goes behind close doors regarding FOs - I'm not about to start grading trades and signings on the belief that random, self-created scenarios should've happened, but didn't. Maybe that's just the optimist in me, I don't really care - I have no information to believe or disprove it. From the intel we have, the trades (except for Zollins, I'm not on board with that turd ass even if he's healthy) don't look nearly as bad as your apocalyptic posts make them seem.

It's why we started out the convo on my remark that you "drown in a glass of water". And here we are, with the biggest news by far in the off-season that DeRozan, a player almost universally loathed in this forum and fanbase, is finally off the team... And you're still bitchin' about things? You see where I was coming from? Seriously, Dude, I understand things might not have worked out perfectly to your scenarios, but from where I'm standing, we're looking pretty fuckin' good right now.

No vets to hog the ball down anymore, with the Mid 3 all gone; an entire "prove it" season for the young core to finally see what we have in Lonnie, DJ, Vassell, White, everyone; a lot of short-term deals aiming at freeing up a lot of cap space (I think it was $30M?) for next season's FA class which by all accounts seems to be better than this one; and the prospect of a tank, to go exactly for the player the team has always been missing (and ST has been obnoxiously clear that we're missing): a true lottery talent, #1 option.

-

So let me answer your questions: yes, Dude, they absolutely sped up the rebuild with these moves, to the point that I have to think you're purposefully obtuse if you don't see it. They definitely moved away from the playoffs, losing DeRozan alone was gonna do that, nevermind signing a redshirt player and no other big names. And no, they certainly (hopefully! we never know...) have moved away from the 8-12 seed "purgatory" state every team loathes. Like, seriously, you're missing the forest for the tree if these are real questions you're asking yourself....

We still don't know if the Spurs have more moves up their sleeve, but assuming this is "it", I'd give this off-season a resoundingly positive mark. Could've been better? You bet. But it's mighty fucking good, and a sight for sore eyes for those of us (especially you, season ticket holder!) that have been subject to three straight seasons of the DeRozan-LMA Midrange Circus team. Praise the Lord, tbh.
Your best post that I have ever read!

I haven’t read them all mind you. I’ll add that for all the criticism on McBucketts (mostly bc his signing conflicted with the J.Collins max scenario that some fans hoped for), I never thought that Collins wanted to be a Spur to begin with. He leveraged the Spurs interest to get more money from ATL and that’s all that was.

Going back to McBucketts, he’s a lower usage player, and off ball player. He’s a complementary player to hopefully the team’s blossoming playmakers. Completely the opposite of the veterans the team had. Bucketts helps their development and I specially agree with you, even the youngest of teams need one or two veterans bc the season is a grind and the veterans help steady the mood, deal with frustration and usually encourage the youth.

[ace3g]

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1122033235838455808/Ejf0gs45_normal.jpg
Tony Jones @Tjonesonthenba
(https://twitter.com/Tjonesonthenba) 48m (https://twitter.com/Tjonesonthenba/status/1422703909500383233)
Deal is worth 6.7 million, according to league sources

Tony Jones @Tjonesonthenba
(https://twitter.com/Tjonesonthenba)

Georges Niang has agreed to a two year deal with the Philadelphia 76ers, league sources tell The Athletic

[SAGirl]

Zollins was a bad deal though.

[Texas eye]

Zollins was a bad deal though.

Its odd and makes no sense. Unless the Spurs know something.

[Mr. Body]

I actually think that's a great trade?

Yes. Most posters here are monkey brain garbage. It's hilarious how stupid this site is.

[ace3g]

Some available free agents

Shooting guards

Player
Team
Age
FA Type
Starting Salary


Danny Green
PHI
34
Starter
$8-10M


Hamidou Diallo ®
DET
23
Starter
$8-10M


Lou Williams
ATL
34
Rotation A
$6-8M


Victor Oladipo
MIA
29
Key Reserve
$4-6M


J.J. Redick
DAL
37
Rotation A
$4-6M






Svi Mykhailiuk ®
OKC
24
Key Reserve
$4-6M


Terence Davis ®
SAC
24
Rotation A
$4-6M


Denzel Valentine
CHI
27
Rotation A
$2-4M


Wesley Matthews
LAL
34
Key Reserve
$2-4M


Timothe Luwawu-Cabarrot
BKN
26
Key Reserve
$2-4M


JaKarr Sampson
IND
28
Rotation A
Veteran minimum


Rondae Hollis-Jefferson
POR
26
Rotation A
Veteran minimum


James Ennis
ORL
31
Rotation A
Veteran minimum






Paul Millsap
DEN
36
Key Reserve
$4-6M


Jarred Vanderbilt ®
MIN
22
Key Reserve
$4-6M


Trey Lyles
SAS
25
Rotation A
$4-6M


Georges Niang

UTH

28

Rotation A
$2-4M



Andre Iguodala
MIA
37
Rotation A
Veteran minimum


Patrick Patterson
LAC
32
Rotation A
Veteran minimum


Mike Scott
PHI
33
Rotation A
Veteran minimum