Stein: Chatter Circulating About The Spurs' Attempts To "Barge" Their Way Into Simmons Sweepstakes

[TD 21]

Says there's far more of it than about Pop's future and he's heard enough whispers to believe Pop wants the milestone far more than he'd ever admit.


Why the Spurs are probably interested in Simmons . . .


Non glamour markets don't get to choose their superstars/stars and this one doesn't want to tank for it, so this has to be tempting: Signed for 4 years, international (though Americanized), fits their supposed defense and ball movement ethos and if ever he could be humbled and gotten through to, it'd be now.

[Chinook]

Yeah, they're trying to be the Raptors of this Leonard sweepstakes. They can do it to, since they have win-now players, prospects and picks. The other suitors either don't have one of those or aren't willing to trade the pieces they have. SA just shouldn't go crazy with what they give up.

[Leetonidas]

There's too much smoke. Spurs are actually interested in trading for Simmons :wow i figured it was just nonsense tbh...

[Chinook]

There's too much smoke. Spurs are actually interested in trading for Simmons :wow i figured it was just nonsense tbh...

Yeah, for me, it was never a question of how interested the Spurs are in the trade. It's how desperate they are. We'll see if they get a good deal or beat out, or if they win by selling the farm.

[Degoat]

I’ll believe it when I see it tbh but in my opinion adding the players they did in free agency does point to them trying to acquire Simmons

All the “were still talking about that diva” “he’s not a star” incoming in 3…. 2…. 1…. Lol

[stnick2261]

Simmons makes $33mil. Would we do:

Murray, Walker, Aminu + picks ($30mil)? Future players, picks and save them some money.

or Murray, Walker, Thad Young + (less) picks ($30.85mil)? When can Young be traded?

[The Truth #6]

It makes you wonder about the Landale signing. A great pick up on its own, but he feels like the Jack Haley here, potentially.

[Robz4000]

:lol if they trade the farm and he refuses to even show up to training camp...

[The Truth #6]

Simmons makes $33mil. Would we do:

Murray, Walker, Aminu + picks ($30mil)? Future players, picks and save them some money.

or Murray, Walker, Thad Young + (less) picks ($30.85mil)? When can Young be traded?

They’d possibly want Yak with Murray and Walker. And at least two 1sts. That’s worth considering.

[The Truth #6]

:lol if they trade the farm and he refuses to even show up to training camp...

More minutes for Forbes?

[Leetonidas]

Only players I would leave off the table are Keldon and Primo. Spurs fans would probably prefer to trade Murray but I see Sixers valuing White more than Murray in terms of a Simmons package

White + Walker + Poeltl, Spurs 2023 1st, and the Chicago 1st. Do it

[Seventyniner]

Yeah, they're trying to be the Raptors of this Leonard sweepstakes. They can do it to, since they have win-now players, prospects and picks. The other suitors either don't have one of those or aren't willing to trade the pieces they have. SA just shouldn't go crazy with what they give up.

What would a Raptors/Number Two equivalent look like? White/Walker/2 firsts, plus Aminu for salary ballast?

[DPG21920]

Yeah, they're trying to be the Raptors of this Leonard sweepstakes. They can do it to, since they have win-now players, prospects and picks. The other suitors either don't have one of those or aren't willing to trade the pieces they have. SA just shouldn't go crazy with what they give up.

Maybe we can give them DeRozan and Jakob?

[DPG21920]

I’m fine if Sa does this but not at the costs reported. If it’s Thad + Murray + 2 picks. Ok I can see it.

[ismael-robert]

Gross

[timvp]

Yeah, the Spurs are legitimately interested in Ben Simmons. There's too much smoke for any other explanation.

Do I want the Spurs to trade for Simmons? I'm not sure yet, tbh. Up until a couple days ago, I didn't put much stock in the rumors. But over the last 48 hours or so, it has become clear they are interested.

My first reaction to a Simmons trade is no. But then I think about how this is an ultimate buy-low opportunity that doesn't come around often for players with legit superstar potential. There's a chance Simmons' career just flat-lines and he's nothing more than a borderline All-Star from here on out. But there's also a chance that he takes another step and becomes an all-around force who can drag the Spurs back to the playoffs in short order.

If the Spurs are making an offer for Simmons, I think you start with Murray and Poeltl. Those are two players that have positive value who wouldn't really fit on a Simmons team so it makes the most sense to move them. Walker is another player who makes a lot of sense because he probably has positive value league-wide while those who have watched him closely understand that value is more tenuous than it might appear unless you watch him a lot. Derrick White would be a great complement to Simmons so it'd be really difficult to justify trading him for Simmons. Unfortunately, White would also be a strong fit on Philadelphia so the Spurs might not have a choice if they really want Simmons.

Parting with future first round picks is when it becomes difficult to stomach. Simmons would improve the Spurs in most scenarios but it's far from guaranteed that he'd lead the Spurs out of the lottery. There'd have to be some strong protections on any picks the Spurs give the Sixers or else it could blow up in San Antonio's face. I don't really hesitate about Simmons' contract (it's risky but that's acceptable risk and part of the reason why he's a buy-low candidate) but including a first rounder(s) .... man, that'd be tough.

[Leetonidas]

I’m fine if Sa does this but not at the costs reported. If it’s Thad + Murray + 2 picks. Ok I can see it.

Supposedly they have an offer on the table from SAC of Hali + Barnes and a protected 1st, and another from TOR involving FVV + OG and a protected 1st. I don't think Murray and Young alone gets it done considering the other packages they have

[stnick2261]

They’d possibly want Yak with Murray and Walker. And at least two 1sts. That’s worth considering.

Poeltl is ranked 3rd in defense according to RAPTOR, so I wouldn't be happy about trading him, but I'd definitely consider it. That means we wouldn't be tanking anymore and Thad Young would probably be playing for us instead of being traded for a 1st (like I'd hoped). That would completely change the outlook of the team.

[Chinook]

What would a Raptors/Number Two equivalent look like? White/Walker/2 firsts, plus Aminu for salary ballast?

White is more of their Lowry than DeRozan. DeMar was seen as their best player even though Kyle was. But yeah, that deal you offered with DJM in place of White is probably equivalent. I think it'll take Vassell instead of Walker and Young instead of Aminu though. Maybe there'll be a swap in 2023 is 22 is unprotected. That's near the max I'd be willing to offer

[Leetonidas]

My thought is, the Spurs are better off taking a gamble and trading for an established star on a long term deal that still has upside versus sitting and waiting and hoping one of our young guys ever becomes that good. Because despite his limitations, Simmons is a better player than anyone on the Spurs roster, and surrounded with the right players he is a big time floor raiser.

Better to take our shot versus just sitting and waiting and hoping someone blossoms into being as good as he is 3-4 years down the road. imo

[GAustex]

Dude would flake out having to hang in SA

[SpurSpike]

Who would have been better Simmons or DeRozan?

I kinda think DDR is the better player tbh at least he isn't afraid of the moment. The only thing Simmons has on him is that he is younger and plays better defense but i guess he does fit the timeline much better. If we can get him cheap sure but the asking price has been sky high so far...

[exstatic]

I’ll believe it when I see it tbh but in my opinion adding the players they did in free agency does point to them trying to acquire Simmons

All the “were still talking about that diva” “he’s not a star” incoming in 3…. 2…. 1…. Lol

McBuckets and Brent Forms kinda tipped their hand.

[BacktoBasics]

You can’t win games averaging 82ppg. If you let go of Walker, White or Murray where does your offense come from?

These trade scenarios have 8th seed written all over it. I don’t like it.

The only saving grace would be if Simmons magically fixes his fear of shooting(which in my opinion is a two year project) and some other star wants to align with him. So unlikely.

[Mr. Body]

Don't believe it. This is entirely Klutch/ESPN/media trying to create a narrative and market around Ben Simmons. We're getting manipulated.

[Chinook]

The Spurs should have two or three prospects they truly believe in, and they should do any trade that doesn't require them to move more than one of those guys (and definitely not the top one). So if Primo is going to be the hope, then keep him and one of Johnson and Vassell. If Walker is that guy (he isn't, at least not in PATFO's minds for sure), then keep him and be willing to keep one of Primo, Vassell or Johnson. Everything else comes down to negotiation. Ideally, you keep White (or Murray if you roll that way), and you want to still have a functional team at the end of this. But the good thing about signing so many guys this summer is that there's basically an SL's worth of guys who can't be moved right now.

[Mr. Body]

Yeah, the Spurs are legitimately interested in Ben Simmons. There's too much smoke for any other explanation.


Smoke = Klutch

[Kurik]

Not a fan of Simmons overall but if I had to pick amongst the prospects, Vassell and Walker are the easy ones to get rid of in my mind though 76ers will probably want someone else. Maybe even throw in Tre Jones who I like but his stock is higher now?

[Mr. Body]

Who would have been better Simmons or DeRozan?

I kinda think DDR is the better player tbh at least he isn't afraid of the moment. The only thing Simmons has on him is that he is younger and plays better defense but i guess he does fit the timeline much better. If we can get him cheap sure but the asking price has been sky high so far...

Yep. Spurs fans are some of the hollowest, ficklest, most nearsighted fans around. Simmons is given credit for what Embiid and a strong roster was doing. He was a problem when the game was on the line, and not for the opposing team. This is hilarious, seeing so many people freak out at manufactured news.

[TD 21]

:lol if they trade the farm and he refuses to even show up to training camp...

He has no leverage. He's signed for 4 years and his reputation is in tatters. I have no doubt he wouldn't be thrilled at first, but at the very least he'd have to put on a brave face and focus on re-building his reputation over the next couple of seasons.

At that point, either the team would be good enough to keep him engaged (let's say they're able to retain White, Johnson, Samanic, Vassell or Walker IV, Jones, Primo, maybe Collins sticks too) or he could be rerouted to recoup the value given up.



If the Spurs are making an offer for Simmons, I think you start with Murray and Poeltl. Those are two players that have positive value who wouldn't really fit on a Simmons team so it makes the most sense to move them. Walker is another player who makes a lot of sense because he probably has positive value league-wide while those who have watched him closely understand that value is more tenuous than it might appear unless you watch him a lot. Derrick White would be a great complement to Simmons so it'd be really difficult to justify trading him for Simmons. Unfortunately, White would also be a strong fit on Philadelphia so the Spurs might not have a choice if they really want Simmons.

Parting with future first round picks is when it becomes difficult to stomach. Simmons would improve the Spurs in most scenarios but it's far from guaranteed that he'd lead the Spurs out of the lottery. There'd have to be some strong protections on any picks the Spurs give the Sixers or else it could blow up in San Antonio's face. I don't really hesitate about Simmons' contract (it's risky but that's acceptable risk and part of the reason why he's a buy-low candidate) but including a first rounder(s) .... man, that'd be tough.

I suspect a third team has to be brought in. Poeltl doesn't fit with Simmons here and wouldn't fit with Embiid and Drummond there, plus the 76ers need a veteran guard with a history of being a go-to type, even if they're past their prime (Dragic?).

Walker IV would probably hold little to no appeal to them given their depth of young guards/wings and Morey's reliance on analytics.

The Spurs would probably refuse to include White (not only the most Spursy of the youth or youngish, but unlike Murray, who'd be untenable with Simmons, he'd be ideal), Johnson, Primo and maybe Vassell. I could see anything else on the table and given their lack of a centerpiece, significant draft capital would be inevitable.

[Russ]

Here's the final offer the Spurs should make:

To Philly -- You've effectively insured by your actions up to now that Simmons can't be on your roster in October. That's untenable for you.

We'll take Simmons (and his horrible contract) if you also convey to us your next first round pick (unprotected). In return, we'll give you not one, but two second round picks (both protected). If you insist, we'll also give you Lonnie Walker IV (but, in fairness, we must disclose that he was sexually abused as a child).

:flag:

[timvp]

Murray, Walker, Vassell, Poeltl and Bulls first round pick for Simmons, Tolliver and Reed? I don't think I do it but I think that's basically what it'd take if the Spurs want to trade for Simmons but are hesitant to give up one of their first rounders.

[Mr. Body]

Murray, Walker, Vassell, Poeltl and Bulls first round pick for Simmons, Tolliver and Reed? I don't think I do it but I think that's basically what it'd take if the Spurs want to trade for Simmons but are hesitant to give up one of their first rounders.

No fucking way. Is this just summer idiocy season or what?

[mo7888]

Murray, Walker, Vassell, Poeltl and Bulls first round pick for Simmons, Tolliver and Reed? I don't think I do it but I think that's basically what it'd take if the Spurs want to trade for Simmons but are hesitant to give up one of their first rounders.

I'd probably choose to give a 1st and keep Vassell in that scenario..

[Robz4000]

More minutes for Forbes?

:lol Pop would love that at least

[Chinook]

Murray, Walker, Vassell, Poeltl and Bulls first round pick for Simmons, Tolliver and Reed? I don't think I do it but I think that's basically what it'd take if the Spurs want to trade for Simmons but are hesitant to give up one of their first rounders.

Depends on if Walker is just a body there or is adding value for Philly. He's from PA, so I could see that being appealing. But if he's just a contract, then the Spurs should absolutely add Hutchison into the deal instead and through in a second or whatever. Walker would have his best chance at exceling with Simmons, and even though Ben is actually a very good scorer for someone who can't score away from the rim, the Spurs should want his offense. Forbes is also a good fit, so losing Walker isn't the end of the world. Certainly from my perspective, if that deal is a guaranteed sell for Philly, I do it and feel lucky. They still have Young, Aminu and all of their picks to pursue another piece. Or they can play out the year to see what happens first.

Rotation (assuming they can keep Lonnie)

Simmons, Jones
White, Forbes, Primo
Walker, McDermott
Johnson, Young, Aminu, Tolliver
Eubanks, Landale, Collins, Reed

Wieskamp, Bates-Diop

Incomplete. It might be worth it to pursue a trade for like Dragic. But I'd be interested in seeing that team grow.

[Chinook]

Murray, Walker, Vassell, Poeltl and Bulls first round pick for Simmons, Tolliver and Reed? I don't think I do it but I think that's basically what it'd take if the Spurs want to trade for Simmons but are hesitant to give up one of their first rounders.

Depends on if Walker is just a body there or is adding value for Philly. He's from PA, so I could see that being appealing. But if he's just a contract, then the Spurs should absolutely add Hutchison into the deal instead and through in a second or whatever. Walker would have his best chance at exceling with Simmons, and even though Ben is actually a very good scorer for someone who can't score away from the rim, the Spurs should want his offense. Forbes is also a good fit, so losing Walker isn't the end of the world. Certainly from my perspective, if that deal is a guaranteed sell for Philly, I do it and feel lucky. They still have Young, Aminu and all of their picks to pursue another piece. Or they can play out the year to see what happens first.

Rotation (assuming they can keep Lonnie)

Simmons, Jones
White, Forbes, Primo
Walker, McDermott
Johnson, Young, Aminu, Tolliver
Eubanks, Landale, Collins, Reed

Wieskamp, Bates-Diop

Incomplete. It might be worth it to pursue a trade for like Dragic. But I'd be interested in seeing that team grow.

[TD 21]

That's not even getting in the ballpark (probably looking at multiple other 1sts; maybe Young going to a third team gets them another?) and I'd guess the Spurs would prioritize retaining most of the youth (save Murray, Poeltl, Walker IV) over draft picks and that, that would be the 76ers preferance too.



I'd probably choose to give a 1st and keep Vassell in that scenario..

Same. Even though he's signed for 4 years, if you're trading for a star, especially one unlikely to be happy being traded here at least initially, you've got to start winning sooner than later.

[Thomas82]

Only players I would leave off the table are Keldon and Primo. Spurs fans would probably prefer to trade Murray but I see Sixers valuing White more than Murray in terms of a Simmons package

White + Walker + Poeltl, Spurs 2023 1st, and the Chicago 1st. Do it

I definitely wouldn't give up the 2023 1st rounder with Victor Wembenyama being in that draft.

[Robz4000]

He has no leverage. He's signed for 4 years and his reputation is in tatters. I have no doubt he wouldn't be thrilled at first, but at the very least he'd have to put on a brave face and focus on re-building his reputation over the next couple of seasons.

At that point, either the team would be good enough to keep him engaged (let's say they're able to retain White, Johnson, Samanic, Vassell or Walker IV, Jones, Primo, maybe Collins sticks too) or he could be rerouted to recoup the value given up.




I suspect a third team has to be brought in. Poeltl doesn't fit with Simmons here and wouldn't fit with Embiid and Drummond there, plus the 76ers need a veteran guard with a history of being a go-to type, even if they're past their prime (Dragic?).

Walker IV would probably hold little to no appeal to them given their depth of young guards/wings and Morey's reliance on analytics.

The Spurs would probably refuse to include White (not only the most Spursy of the youth or youngish, but unlike Murray, who'd be untenable with Simmons, he'd be ideal), Johnson, Primo and maybe Vassell. I could see anything else on the table and given their lack of a centerpiece, significant draft capital would be inevitable.

Or Simmons retires early/pulls a Nephew and the Spurs are forced to move him for pennies on the dollar. His head doesn't seem to be too into basketball.

[tbdog]

Simmons is easier to build around. The team would be more up tempo but they will lack a go get a basket scorer.

[Robz4000]

I wouldn't even contemplate a trade unless the Spurs were able to talk to Simmons and gauge where he's at mentally and how he'd take to playing in SA.

[Chinook]

I'd probably choose to give a 1st and keep Vassell in that scenario..

As I mentioned before, I think the Spurs need to pick their untouchables and hold onto them. Beyond that, everyone else on the team is there to serve the goal of either improving the members of the core (like trading for a new blue-chip player) or to create the best environment possible for the core to succeed. If Vassell is the core guy, you don't trade him. But if he's not, then moving him and keeping the picks is the smarter move, in my opinion. The Spurs should be prioritizing flexibility over talent in this deal, so keep their natural picks unencumbered and holding onto their expiring contracts is a huge win, because they won't be done building with just Simmons and the blue-chippers. They'll need to be active in future trade markets, and while a Vassell who's not seen as the core would still be nice, but he would ultimately just be a role-player on a team in transition. If they get a contending core together, they will be able to acquire those role-players later. But trading a 2022 first means you lose out on 3/8 of the team's tradeable firsts (because in this case, the CHI first is also gone). If you protect that pick for three years, you miss out 6/8 of the tradeable picks. It's really damaging to the club's long-term trade prospects to give up picks if they have an alternative.

[Mr. Body]

That's not even getting in the ballpark


The fuck are people talking about? Are you all brain damaged? Don't you realize there is NO market for Ben Simmons right now? There MIGHT be two teams -- SACTO and MIN -- interested, and Marc Stein is doing a Klutch favor and claiming the Spurs are interested, too?

Don't you realize this is all bullshit? Don't you realize the market for Ben Simmons right now is WORSE than for Kawhi a few years ago?

[Chinook]

As far as I know, Simmons wanting a trade is completely understandable. So I don't have any reason to believe he'd have an issue with playing in SA. I think he'll ultimately be happy on a team that really wants him rather than a club that has a night life.

[DPG21920]

Murray, Walker, Vassell, Poeltl and Bulls first round pick for Simmons, Tolliver and Reed? I don't think I do it but I think that's basically what it'd take if the Spurs want to trade for Simmons but are hesitant to give up one of their first rounders.

You don’t think they’d rather Thad in there over Vassell? They are a good team and want to win and Thad is a good player and worth a first.

[TD 21]

Or Simmons retires early/pulls a Nephew and the Spurs are forced to move him for pennies on the dollar. His head doesn't seem to be too into basketball.

He's got about $140M reasons to not retire and again, he doesn't have leverage.

Scumbag had 1 season left on his contract. If he'd had 4, they'd have been able to command a king's ransom despite his antics to suppress his value.

[Spurs9]

Trade anyone not named Primo for him tbh

[Dejounte]

The fuck are people talking about? Are you all brain damaged? Don't you realize there is NO market for Ben Simmons right now? There MIGHT be two teams -- SACTO and MIN -- interested, and Marc Stein is doing a Klutch favor and claiming the Spurs are interested, too?

Don't you realize this is all bullshit? Don't you realize the market for Ben Simmons right now is WORSE than for Kawhi a few years ago?
You’re going to burst a vein. Take a chill pill.

[Robz4000]

As far as I know, Simmons wanting a trade is completely understandable. So I don't have any reason to believe he'd have an issue with playing in SA. I think he'll ultimately be happy on a team that really wants him rather than a club that has a night life.

From everything I've heard (got a lot of family in and around Philly) the dude clubs harder than LDN ever did and is never in the gym. It wouldn't shock me at all if he decides to "rehab" or retire altogether.

[Robz4000]

He's got about $140M reasons to not retire and again, he doesn't have leverage.

Scumbag had 1 season left on his contract. If he'd had 4, they'd have been able to command a king's ransom despite his antics to surpress his value.

I mean we've seen the limitations of this current FO the past few years, whose to say they're even capable of demanding anything remotely close to a king's ransom for Simmons? The rest of the NBA has seen the Spurs as the butt-end of a joke in trade discussions. Wouldn't shock me if they moved him for the corpse of John Wall.

[Chinook]

From everything I've heard (got a lot of family in and around Philly) the dude clubs harder than LDN ever did and is never in the gym. It wouldn't shock me at all if he decides to "rehab" or retire altogether.

It would be kind of shocking, because he doesn't get his contract if he retires. Lots of players club (like Green apparently). They don't have to do it in the city in which they work. Benefit of being a millionaire.

[DPG21920]

I agree with Timvp - I’m wayyyy more hesitant about the picks part than players. I don’t really want Simmons but I’m fine with taking gambles. However SA needs to really protect themselves here on the downside and you do that by not dumping tons of picks.

I’m ok with 2: one of our and the bulls. That’s it.

[baseline bum]

Murray, Walker, Vassell, Poeltl and Bulls first round pick for Simmons, Tolliver and Reed? I don't think I do it but I think that's basically what it'd take if the Spurs want to trade for Simmons but are hesitant to give up one of their first rounders.

Are you expecting a lot out of Vassell these next couple of years? Didn't really blow anybody away in his rookie season.

[Robz4000]

It would be kind of shocking, because he doesn't get his contract if he retires. Lots of players club (like Green apparently). They don't have to do it in the city in which they work. Benefit of being a millionaire.

Like I said, dude might be a headcase. Plus money isn't as much of a factor for him since he comes from a fairly well-off family iirc.

[mo7888]

As I mentioned before, I think the Spurs need to pick their untouchables and hold onto them. Beyond that, everyone else on the team is there to serve the goal of either improving the members of the core (like trading for a new blue-chip player) or to create the best environment possible for the core to succeed. If Vassell is the core guy, you don't trade him. But if he's not, then moving him and keeping the picks is the smarter move, in my opinion. The Spurs should be prioritizing flexibility over talent in this deal, so keep their natural picks unencumbered and holding onto their expiring contracts is a huge win, because they won't be done building with just Simmons and the blue-chippers. They'll need to be active in future trade markets, and while a Vassell who's not seen as the core would still be nice, but he would ultimately just be a role-player on a team in transition. If they get a contending core together, they will be able to acquire those role-players later. But trading a 2022 first means you lose out on 3/8 of the team's tradeable firsts (because in this case, the CHI first is also gone). If you protect that pick for three years, you miss out 6/8 of the tradeable picks. It's really damaging to the club's long-term trade prospects to give up picks if they have an alternative.

I'm not saying Vassell is untouchable....but it was presented as Vassell or a 1st in that particular scenario...I'm saying I'd value Vassell more than a future 1st....in that particular scenario..

[8sy21vd]

Pop + Forbes + Thad + Aminu + Luka FOR Simmons + a Philly cheesesteak. If they take Brian Wright, we can drop the cheesesteak demand. Seriously though, it would at the very least make the Spurs relevant in mainstream NBA media but it's hard to see guys like Poetl, KJ and Dj starting given their shooting limitations.

[DPG21920]

Murray + Thad + Jakob + CHI 1st + top 14 protected SA 1st

[mo7888]

Murray + Thad + Jakob + CHI 1st + top 14 protected SA 1st

Yup...that's a solid offer for Simmons at this juncture... they can reroute Poeltl if they want to get more picks or a better player fit...

[exstatic]

Who would have been better Simmons or DeRozan?

I kinda think DDR is the better player tbh at least he isn't afraid of the moment. The only thing Simmons has on him is that he is younger and plays better defense but i guess he does fit the timeline much better. If we can get him cheap sure but the asking price has been sky high so far...

He is ELITE on defense and court vision/passing. He’s made 2 first team All D, 3 AS games, and one All NBA team. He also finished 2nd in DPOY this year.

[Robz4000]

Simmons > DePression even with his shooting shortcomings tbh. Problem is his dedication to basketball and willingness to play in SA.

[TD 21]

I mean we've seen the limitations of this current FO the past few years, whose to say they're even capable of demanding anything remotely close to a king's ransom for Simmons? The rest of the NBA has seen the Spurs as the butt-end of a joke in trade discussions. Wouldn't shock me if they moved him for the corpse of John Wall.

They obviously wouldn't trade for him with the intention of it coming to that, I'm just saying if it does and he's repaired his value, is 27, with 2 years remaining, try as they might, even they'd replace at least most of the value given up.



Yup...that's a solid offer for Simmons at this juncture... they can reroute Poeltl if they want to get more picks or a better player fit...

Nah, it isn't. Poeltl and Young have to be rerouted for assets that'd make sense for them and the protection on the Spurs 1st would have to be dropped significantly.

I do think Simmons' actions could expedite the timeline (especially if they get the sense Lillard is locked in at least through the season), but at the same time he's signed for 4 years and Morey isn't PATFO. I don't think he'll care about the noise and his reputation.

[Chinook]

Simmons and DeRozan are close when you factor everything in, but the things holding Ben back are theoretically workable. Him being younger and signed to a long-term deal are also things hugely in his favor.

[RD2191]

It's all about titles at the end of the day. Is trading for Simmons going to make us title contenders? If the answer is no then what's the point?

[John B]

He is ELITE on defense and court vision/passing. He’s made 2 first team All D, 3 AS games, and one All NBA team. He also finished 2nd in DPOY this year.

I remember you mentioned before, increasing his 3pt shot percentage to a something respectable, also his FT’s and he become an MVP candidate. FO is betting it’s all in his mind. Simmons have good mechanics.

I’m for getting Simmons. This opportunity does not come often to a small market. If I’m a betting man, I’ll bet on Spurs winning organization to turn this kid around.

[mo7888]

It's all about titles at the end of the day. Is trading for Simmons going to make us title contenders? If the answer is no then what's the point?

There's nobody that could make us a title contender by themselves.... you have to add more later.

[NASpurs]

Pop's dream of finally playing Forbes 48 minutes per game might get realized.

[spurraider21]

confirmed by a trusted source

1428819337033523202

[John B]

Simmons and DeRozan are close when you factor everything in, but the things holding Ben back are theoretically workable. Him being younger and signed to a long-term deal are also things hugely in his favor.


I have to disagree. Simmons plays team oriented game instead of heavy ISO, All-NBA Defensive player, and way younger to still work on his outside shots. Demar WILL NOT change anymore at his age. There’s a wide gap between the two.

[NASpurs]

Simmons alone bumps up to a 35 win team from the current 25 win team. Still sniffing that lottery pick though which would go to Philly for the next 5 years after Morey bends Brian Wrong over

[RD2191]

confirmed by a trusted source

1428819337033523202
:lol

[John B]

There's nobody that could make us a title contender by themselves.... you have to add more later.
Yes but the domino starts with one tile. The rest will follow, ring chasers. You get Simmons playing All NBA, with Pop and in the Spurs, soon the winning culture change, players start working harder, other players will like to come. It starts with one. I mean, Pop pulls this off, he can go ride in the sunset and forget about what Nephew could have been.

[Mr. Body]

You’re going to burst a vein. Take a chill pill.

Lol, fuck off you little twat.

[spurspl]

imo a good deal is only if:
1) spurs wont include our two 1sts in next two extremely good drafts
2) wont include keldon and primo
3) be 10000% sure that simmons is ok with playing in san antonio and is aware that it will take time to build a team around him (probably 2-3 yrs)

[BacktoBasics]

Vassel has all the makings of an upper tier glue guy and I would value him about how I’d value say someone like Marcus Smart.

Murray or White. I have no issue with. Walker has offense and this team has none and it’s not like offense would be coming back in this trade.

Poodle. Fine.

Bulls 1st and a couple 2nds. Fine.

I’d be hesitant to add one our 1sts.

I don’t really want to give up shit for this diva.

[baseline bum]

It's low risk high reward if they don't give up a multiple firsts. If the Sixers think they're getting a Harden like return, no thanks, good luck with that.

[PhantomDashCam]

Ben Simmons a Spur? I just don’t see it.

Ben was exposed league wide for the player that he is this past playoff season. What’s comical to me though…this is the exact same player that was game-planned against by the Celtics several seasons ago in the Playoffs. It was thought that the lack of shooting, poor roster construction was the issue (which is somewhat valid). This past season though, no excuse.

You don’t build your team around a Draymond Green…Why do it for one sans a killer instinct?

https://twitter.com/CPTheDoc334/status/1404568916890996740?s=20

[CGD]

Murray, Walker, Vassell, Poeltl and Bulls first round pick for Simmons, Tolliver and Reed? I don't think I do it but I think that's basically what it'd take if the Spurs want to trade for Simmons but are hesitant to give up one of their first rounders.

I’d like to see Spurs try to flip Thad for a pick to add to the war-chest first, but otherwise I’m here for it.

[TD 21]

:lmao At homers and casuals alike who think a combination of the Spurs' second and third rate youth and lesser/protected picks are getting them a young, signed long term, (flawed) complimentary star.

When Stein says "barge", he's more than likely alluding to pulling in a third or maybe even fourth team to be able to contribute to supplying the 76ers with the type of package that would appeal to them.

[Sugus]

Fuuuuck this noise.

This is a Kangz-level move, for real now. Y'all have been bitching about the "inept FO" moves all off-season long - this is precisely the move an inept FO would do. I too don't buy all this noise and "sources", it's clear the clock is ticking out on Simmons and the Klutch media machine is hoping now more than ever for a bidding war, lest Simmons be on the roster still come training camp.

:lmao at naive posters thinking Simmons is a "first domino" and would attract "ring chasers" to SanAn. Insane that after so many years this fantasy is still going strong, for BEN SIMMONS nonetheless... Who's he gonna drag down here? Be fucking real... Guy is hardly adequate as a #2 option, probably a #3, with the ego of a diva #1 to boot. Further :lmao at posters thinking his "issues are fixable", no they aren't - he literally shoots off the wrong fucking hand still, at twenty-fucking-five, be real. Chip could more easily get Poeltl shooting 3's than he would Simmons shooting them (matter-of-factly, Poeltl literally has a better jumper and touch than Simmons does, and I see nobody barking up that hopeless tree for some reason...).

Disgusting that it's even a consideration, can only hope it's media BS smoke and mirrors. Definitely would be my breaking point. Fuck Simmons and being locked into at least 4 years of mediocrity (the REAL mediocrity) paying his bum, beta ass $140 million dollars. I'd much, much rather bottom out and go get a player off the top lottery who isn't so fatally and fundamentally flawed in the most important aspect of the modern NBA as Simmons. Why do people even want him? You can't even play him for his defense in the 4th, he's been Hack-A-Shaq'd literally every single playoff series last season :lol

Once again... Fuck this.

[slick'81]

The absolute begging for ben simons on here:lol

[Dejounte]

Lol, fuck off you little twat.

lmao nah fuck you

[offset formation]

Dude would flake out having to hang in SA

he could live in austin and buy a chopper

[Sugus]

Ben Simmons a Spur? I just don’t see it.

Ben was exposed league wide for the player that he is this past playoff season. What’s comical to me though…this is the exact same player that was game-planned against by the Celtics several seasons ago in the Playoffs. It was thought that the lack of shooting, poor roster construction was the issue (which is somewhat valid). This past season though, no excuse.

You don’t build your team around a Draymond Green…Why do it for one sans a killer instinct?

https://twitter.com/CPTheDoc334/status/1404568916890996740?s=20

There couldn't be more red flags hovering all around Simmons. Came into the league a finished product, but supposedly with "sky-high" room for growth. Proceeded to coast off athleticism and get himself a huge bag, to then not work on a SINGLE THING about his offensive game (yes, his defense has gotten better, but it's just as worthless as DeRozan's offense was when you're such an incredible negative on the other side of the floor, whichever side it is). Arguably shoots less now than he came into the league, in maybe the most shooting-inclined league in the entire world. Doesn't recognize his true position of PF and demands having a ball-handling role, when a Simmons-handling PnR is the least threatening one in the entire league. Severely lacking in offensive IQ, can't recognize how he's hurting his team nor how he can help them, it was painfully obvious in Philly year after year - multiple video compilations online of Simmons doing nothing on offense.

Then, after getting embarrassingly exposed in the POs for being the exact same flaw of a player he's always been, proceeds to go dark, cut off comms with his entire team and org (sound familiar y'all?? Insane that some of you want to go through this, again), while Embiid spends all off-season on the Sixers' training facility working on his game and conditioning. And, to top it all off, he demands to be traded off the team, and not to any team, but a specific list of, LA-centric, shortlist.

My god. Let some other, more desperate team have him, Spurs are in need of talent but not this badly. And especially not such fundamentally flawed talent.

[timvp]

:lmao At homers and casuals alike who think a combination of the Spurs' second and third rate youth and lesser/protected picks are getting them a young, signed long term, (flawed) complimentary star.

When Stein says "barge", he's more than likely alluding to pulling in a third or maybe even fourth team to be able to contribute to supplying the 76ers with the type of package that would appeal to them.

Tbh, the only way the Spurs' offer comes out on top is if the Sixers value getting multiple rotational pieces over a big name or a haul of draft picks. The Spurs don't have a player comparable to Haliburton or FVV and won't add more than one or two draft picks. What the Spurs can offer is three or four players who could add depth and a dash of draft sweetener. If that's not enough (and it probably won't be) then they're not getting him.

Getting third or fourth teams involved is immaterial to the discussion. If the Sixers want to flip pieces to find better fits, that's fine. But the basics of what the Spurs can/will offer remain the same.

[offset formation]

Depends on if Walker is just a body there or is adding value for Philly. He's from PA, so I could see that being appealing. But if he's just a contract, then the Spurs should absolutely add Hutchison into the deal instead and through in a second or whatever. Walker would have his best chance at exceling with Simmons, and even though Ben is actually a very good scorer for someone who can't score away from the rim, the Spurs should want his offense. Forbes is also a good fit, so losing Walker isn't the end of the world. Certainly from my perspective, if that deal is a guaranteed sell for Philly, I do it and feel lucky. They still have Young, Aminu and all of their picks to pursue another piece. Or they can play out the year to see what happens first.

Rotation (assuming they can keep Lonnie)

Simmons, Jones
White, Forbes, Primo
Walker, McDermott
Johnson, Young, Aminu, Tolliver
Eubanks, Landale, Collins, Reed

Wieskamp, Bates-Diop

Incomplete. It might be worth it to pursue a trade for like Dragic. But I'd be interested in seeing that team grow.

samanic?

[timvp]

Fuuuuck this noise.

This is a Kangz-level move, for real now. Y'all have been bitching about the "inept FO" moves all off-season long - this is precisely the move an inept FO would do. I too don't buy all this noise and "sources", it's clear the clock is ticking out on Simmons and the Klutch media machine is hoping now more than ever for a bidding war, lest Simmons be on the roster still come training camp.

:lmao at naive posters thinking Simmons is a "first domino" and would attract "ring chasers" to SanAn. Insane that after so many years this fantasy is still going strong, for BEN SIMMONS nonetheless... Who's he gonna drag down here? Be fucking real... Guy is hardly adequate as a #2 option, probably a #3, with the ego of a diva #1 to boot. Further :lmao at posters thinking his "issues are fixable", no they aren't - he literally shoots off the wrong fucking hand still, at twenty-fucking-five, be real. Chip could more easily get Poeltl shooting 3's than he would Simmons shooting them (matter-of-factly, Poeltl literally has a better jumper and touch than Simmons does, and I see nobody barking up that hopeless tree for some reason...).

Disgusting that it's even a consideration, can only hope it's media BS smoke and mirrors. Definitely would be my breaking point. Fuck Simmons and being locked into at least 4 years of mediocrity (the REAL mediocrity) paying his bum, beta ass $140 million dollars. I'd much, much rather bottom out and go get a player off the top lottery who isn't so fatally and fundamentally flawed in the most important aspect of the modern NBA as Simmons. Why do people even want him? You can't even play him for his defense in the 4th, he's been Hack-A-Shaq'd literally every single playoff series last season :lol

Once again... Fuck this.

Also a valid opinion, tbh:lol

[offset formation]

That's not even getting in the ballpark (probably looking at multiple other 1sts; maybe Young going to a third team gets them another?) and I'd guess the Spurs would prioritize retaining most of the youth (save Murray, Poeltl, Walker IV) over draft picks and that, that would be the 76ers preferance too.




Same. Even though he's signed for 4 years, if you're trading for a star, especially one unlikely to be happy being traded here at least initially, you've got to start winning sooner than later.

this is lunacy. im in bizarro world with you chinook and timvp just throwing around our young guys and hard won 1st rd picks all willy-nilly like.

[Dverde]

I believe this 100%. I also believe Spurs over value their players and won’t pay what Morey wants in a trade. Morey probably going to take that Kings offer. Makes sense to both teams if Simmons wants to play there.

[timvp]

this is lunacy. im in bizarro world with you chinook and timvp just throwing around our young guys and hard won 1st rd picks all willy-nilly like.

To clarify, I'm just stating what it'd take to get a deal done. My initial feeling was to not do a deal for Simmons and I'm still leaning that way, tbh.

It would take four positive value players and a pick for the Spurs to enter this race, IMO.

[Em-City]

Fuuuuck this noise.

This is a Kangz-level move, for real now. Y'all have been bitching about the "inept FO" moves all off-season long - this is precisely the move an inept FO would do. I too don't buy all this noise and "sources", it's clear the clock is ticking out on Simmons and the Klutch media machine is hoping now more than ever for a bidding war, lest Simmons be on the roster still come training camp.

:lmao at naive posters thinking Simmons is a "first domino" and would attract "ring chasers" to SanAn. Insane that after so many years this fantasy is still going strong, for BEN SIMMONS nonetheless... Who's he gonna drag down here? Be fucking real... Guy is hardly adequate as a #2 option, probably a #3, with the ego of a diva #1 to boot. Further :lmao at posters thinking his "issues are fixable", no they aren't - he literally shoots off the wrong fucking hand still, at twenty-fucking-five, be real. Chip could more easily get Poeltl shooting 3's than he would Simmons shooting them (matter-of-factly, Poeltl literally has a better jumper and touch than Simmons does, and I see nobody barking up that hopeless tree for some reason...).

Disgusting that it's even a consideration, can only hope it's media BS smoke and mirrors. Definitely would be my breaking point. Fuck Simmons and being locked into at least 4 years of mediocrity (the REAL mediocrity) paying his bum, beta ass $140 million dollars. I'd much, much rather bottom out and go get a player off the top lottery who isn't so fatally and fundamentally flawed in the most important aspect of the modern NBA as Simmons. Why do people even want him? You can't even play him for his defense in the 4th, he's been Hack-A-Shaq'd literally every single playoff series last season :lol

Once again... Fuck this.

This is the only post that needs to be read in here tbh.

[Floyd Pacquiao]

During the big 3 era we used to make fun of guys like Derozan and Simmons and now those are the only players the spurs can get

[TD 21]

Tbh, the only way the Spurs' offer comes out on top is if the Sixers value getting multiple rotational pieces over a big name or a haul of draft picks. The Spurs don't have a player comparable to Haliburton or FVV and won't add more than one or two draft picks. What the Spurs can offer is three or four players who could add depth and a dash of draft sweetener. If that's not enough (and it probably won't be) then they're not getting him.

Getting third or fourth teams involved is immaterial to the discussion. If the Sixers want to flip pieces to find better fits, that's fine. But the basics of what the Spurs can/will offer remain the same.

I doubt they'd be willing to include him, but White is comparable to Haliburton and Van Vleet.

As I've said, it's all about Lillard. If they think he's unlikely to ask out this season or that the Spurs and whatever other team(s) they could pull in could give them enough to remain pseudo contenders while having the capital to trade for him or disgruntled superstar/star TBD, I could see them pulling the trigger.

It's more than likely not only essential, but incumbent on the Spurs to find that team(s).



this is lunacy. im in bizarro world with you chinook and timvp just throwing around our young guys and hard won 1st rd picks all willy-nilly like.

I'm just stating what I think it'd take.

[tbdog]

I'm not saying we should do a full gutting, but building a team around Simmons would be great. The guy is good and is a below average jumper away being legit stud. And an above average jumper from being a monster.

[offset formation]

To clarify, I'm just stating what it'd take to get a deal done. My initial feeling was to not do a deal for Simmons and I'm still leaning that way, tbh.

It would take four positive value players and a pick for the Spurs to enter this race, IMO.

fair enough in your case, but as sugus so eloquently states, why not just dismiss it, and do so with malice aforethought?

maybe im still too butthurt about the nephew debacle but the idea of having another diva on the team that could at any point go toxic, quit supporting the team, want out, etc (ESPECIALLY given we arent a glamour city and his offensive production red flags he already displays with FG attempts and 4th quarter FT et al), I just dont comprehend it. the nephew crisis crashed us harder than we've been in 23 yrs. imagine 2 yrs down the road and Ben is either exactly the same player he is now or worse, which is just as likely an outcome and is miserable in SA, and PATFO cant get a candlestick in return? at that point, you quite literally put the long term future of the team in jeopardy.

long story short, there are simply too many glaring hazards to even consider getting involved in that id much prefer we just dismiss it. that said I understand the requirement you have for speculation so you get a pass for this insanity.

[exstatic]

During the big 3 era we used to make fun of guys like Derozan and Simmons and now those are the only players the spurs can get

No lies told. Players who are flawless stars don’t come onto the market, and if they do, our entire roster wouldn’t be enough.

[Mr. Body]

This board provides the humor. First it was the months-long circle jerk over a picture of John Collins. Now it's an intense circle jerk over a picture of Ben Simmons. Return to the glory days! Get each other off, boys!

:lol x 1,000,000,000

[exstatic]

I’d have to talk to him about abandoning his left handed shooting. Tristan Thompson did when he got to the nba. Could shooting righty be any worse for him?

[Joseph Kony]

:lmao the sniffers in here scoffing Simmons

[slick'81]

This board provides the humor. First it was the months-long circle jerk over a picture of John Collins. Now it's an intense circle jerk over a picture of Ben Simmons. Return to the glory days! Get each other off, boys!

:lol x 1,000,000,000


Son of a bitch,im in

[Joseph Kony]

This board provides the humor. First it was the months-long circle jerk over a picture of John Collins. Now it's an intense circle jerk over a picture of Ben Simmons. Return to the glory days! Get each other off, boys!

:lol x 1,000,000,000

congrats, that's the point of a message board dumbass. i suppose you think sniffing Bright Wright's ass and posting terrible take after terrible take doesnt make you look like a retard also :lol

[Chinook]

this is lunacy. im in bizarro world with you chinook and timvp just throwing around our young guys and hard won 1st rd picks all willy-nilly like.

The team gets a first-rounder every year. Those aren't "hard one", and I've made my views on young guys clear multiple times. One of the best things about this trade is that it gets rid of some of them. The team has to cycle through prospects and be willing to shuffle out guys when they become obsolete. I'm looking at the bush of guards on the team and thinking, "Yeah, if pruning a couple of the weaker branches and tossing in some dirt gets a new horse, I'm happy to do it." I damned sure don't want to see Primo in Austin for two years because the team has "too many guys who need minutes to develop." That doesn't mean there's not a threshold where the price is too high. But I would rather the team know when you move on rather than cling to potential.

[Chinook]

congrats, that's the point of a message board dumbass. i suppose you think sniffing Bright Wright's ass and posting terrible take after terrible take doesnt make you look like a retard also :lol

Yeah, there's this weird sniffing counter-culture where guys act like edgelords about dumb shit like posters speculating about free agents or trades. "You losers are so naive talking about how the team could possibly be better. :lol You should just accept the status quo and convince yourself it's worth giving your life to defend like I have."

[Mr. Body]

congrats, that's the point of a message board dumbass. i suppose you think sniffing Bright Wright's ass and posting terrible take after terrible take doesnt make you look like a retard also :lol

Nah, I think this board is more idiotic than pretty much any other NBA board. Every one has its clowns, but here the clowns have this multicolored jack off display on a regular basis. It's very amusing. What's great about this place is no one seems to have any notion of what the Spurs are as a team and a franchise. It's like you have to hit yourself over the head with a mallet at least two hundred times. It's pretty impressive.

[Mr. Body]

Yeah, there's this weird sniffing counter-culture where guys act like edgelords about dumb shit like posters speculating about free agents or trades. "You losers are so naive talking about how the team could possibly be better. :lol You should just accept the status quo and convince yourself it's worth giving your life to defend like I have."

I mean, everyone's falling in love with barely-a-star malcontent diva who hasn't improved a notch since he came into the league, couldn't deliver wins at LSU, has been dragged to wins by Embiid, quit on his motherfucking Australian team -- when a few years ago we were adoring Manu for never quitting on his Argentinian team.

I think you all are aliens. Mental case aliens. This performance is 1000% embarrassing and y'all should take some stock in yourselves.

[baseline bum]

I mean, everyone's falling in love with barely-a-star malcontent diva who hasn't improved a notch since he came into the league, couldn't deliver wins at LSU, has been dragged to wins by Embiid, quit on his motherfucking Australian team -- when a few years ago we were adoring Manu for never quitting on his Argentinian team.

I think you all are aliens. Mental case aliens. This performance is 1000% embarrassing and y'all should take some stock in yourselves.

No one is falling in love with Ben Simmons. If the Spurs can get him for Murray plus the Chicago pick plus crap like Walker and such obviously they should.

[offset formation]

The team gets a first-rounder every year. Those aren't "hard one", and I've made my views on young guys clear multiple times. One of the best things about this trade is that it gets rid of some of them. The team has to cycle through prospects and be willing to shuffle out guys when they become obsolete. I'm looking at the bush of guards on the team and thinking, "Yeah, if pruning a couple of the weaker branches and tossing in some dirt gets a new horse, I'm happy to do it." I damned sure don't want to see Primo in Austin for two years because the team has "too many guys who need minutes to develop." That doesn't mean there's not a threshold where the price is too high. But I would rather the team know when you move on rather than cling to potential.

I'm clearly referencing the Bulls picks that are a long time coming from the nephew disaster. If we can still get something from that we should keep it unless a clear no brainer presents itself.

[Mr. Body]

No one is falling in love with Ben Simmons. If the Spurs can get him for Murray plus the Chicago pick plus crap like Walker and such obviously they should.

No they should not. That's part of the point. Two problems with the dialog in this thread and elsewhere:

1) No one seems to realize the market for Ben Simmons is really low. Catastrophically low, if you're Philadelphia. People are putting together these outragenous packages and Philly would be lucky to get rid of him right now. He's destined for Minnesota. They're made for each other and no one will ever hear from him again.

2) I would only accept draft picks to take on Ben Simmons. No way would I give up good young players or draft picks of my own. He's deadweight as a contract right now at best. A horrendous malconent who just wants to party and claims he'll only play in California. WTF people? I seriously think people don't know how to read or don't know anything about basketball or the Spurs.

Now... the second part is my opinion, but no, not 'obviously' would you trade anything for him. He wrecks your team chemistry, not to mention what a wreck he is on the floor. Can't even play him in crunch time! What the hell? If DDR got hammered for not shooting threes, how are you choads gonna love having a guy who won't even shoot layups, much less a jumper?

Ell Oh Ell

[objective]

Why give up a ton for Simmons, one of the biggest playoff chokers of all time?

There is a big risk of him being a new Nick Anderson, whose career was obliterated by his choking. A very good starter evaporated. Simmons after that colossal choke is primed for collapse, he doesn't work on his game and refuses to try to improve.

Murray, Walker, and Aminu with a lotto protected first is about all he's worth, and that might be a overpay. Murray at least gets better every year.

And if Simmons can't get the team to the playoffs he's not worth a trade, that's why picks have to be protected.

[baseline bum]

No they should not. That's part of the point. Two problems with the dialog in this thread and elsewhere:

1) No one seems to realize the market for Ben Simmons is really low. Catastrophically low, if you're Philadelphia. People are putting together these outragenous packages and Philly would be lucky to get rid of him right now. He's destined for Minnesota. They're made for each other and no one will ever hear from him again.

2) I would only accept draft picks to take on Ben Simmons. No way would I give up good young players or draft picks of my own. He's deadweight as a contract right now at best. A horrendous malconent who just wants to party and claims he'll only play in California. WTF people? I seriously think people don't know how to read or don't know anything about basketball or the Spurs.

Now... the second part is my opinion, but no, not 'obviously' would you trade anything for him. He wrecks your team chemistry, not to mention what a wreck he is on the floor. Can't even play him in crunch time! What the hell? If DDR got hammered for not shooting threes, how are you choads gonna love having a guy who won't even shoot layups, much less a jumper?

Ell Oh Ell

So Dejounte Murray is better than Ben Simmons?

[baseline bum]

No they should not. That's part of the point. Two problems with the dialog in this thread and elsewhere:

1) No one seems to realize the market for Ben Simmons is really low. Catastrophically low, if you're Philadelphia. People are putting together these outragenous packages and Philly would be lucky to get rid of him right now. He's destined for Minnesota. They're made for each other and no one will ever hear from him again.

2) I would only accept draft picks to take on Ben Simmons. No way would I give up good young players or draft picks of my own. He's deadweight as a contract right now at best. A horrendous malconent who just wants to party and claims he'll only play in California. WTF people? I seriously think people don't know how to read or don't know anything about basketball or the Spurs.

Now... the second part is my opinion, but no, not 'obviously' would you trade anything for him. He wrecks your team chemistry, not to mention what a wreck he is on the floor. Can't even play him in crunch time! What the hell? If DDR got hammered for not shooting threes, how are you choads gonna love having a guy who won't even shoot layups, much less a jumper?

Ell Oh Ell

So Dejounte Murray is better than Ben Simmons?

[baseline bum]

Why give up a ton for Simmons, one of the biggest playoff chokers of all time?

There is a big risk of him being a new Nick Anderson, whose career was obliterated by his choking. A very good starter evaporated. Simmons after that colossal choke is primed for collapse, he doesn't work on his game and refuses to try to improve.

Murray, Walker, and Aminu with a lotto protected first is about all he's worth, and that might be a overpay. Murray at least gets better every year.

And if Simmons can't get the team to the playoffs he's not worth a trade, that's why picks have to be protected.

That's the kind of trade I'm talking about. Murray, the Chicago pick (with all its protection), and crap like Walker and Aminu. If they want White, Poetl, or even Young they can fuck off. Same if they want one of the Spurs own picks unless there is a really large amount of protection.

[Das Texan]

Something has to shake out regardless. Spurs have a roster crunch with 17 players for slots.

Basically a 3-1 type trade in terms of players makes some sense.

Aminu, Murray, Poertl (preferably Walker) and Bulls 1 for Simmons?

Gotta think Aminu is involved in any trade salary wise regardless.

[objective]

I don't get why people want to include Poeltl? Spurs have no other proven bigs. Londale is a question mark, Eubanks is a third stringer, and Zollins is unable to walk, he was hanging out at summer league riding around on a mobility scooter because he has to stay off the feet.

Maybe I could see working GS into it and swapping Poeltl for Wiseman. Wiseman is worse, but theoretically has spacing to add to fit with Simmons and Poeltl would have a ton of shooting around him. Might need more from GS because of how good he'd be for them.

[tonight...you]

this is lunacy. im in bizarro world with you chinook and timvp just throwing around our young guys and hard won 1st rd picks all willy-nilly like.
The people who feel like they are the smartest in the room feel like they have to make statements like they are the smartest in the room.
No matter how misguided.

[tonight...you]

There couldn't be more red flags hovering all around Simmons. Came into the league a finished product, but supposedly with "sky-high" room for growth. Proceeded to coast off athleticism and get himself a huge bag, to then not work on a SINGLE THING about his offensive game (yes, his defense has gotten better, but it's just as worthless as DeRozan's offense was when you're such an incredible negative on the other side of the floor, whichever side it is). Arguably shoots less now than he came into the league, in maybe the most shooting-inclined league in the entire world. Doesn't recognize his true position of PF and demands having a ball-handling role, when a Simmons-handling PnR is the least threatening one in the entire league. Severely lacking in offensive IQ, can't recognize how he's hurting his team nor how he can help them, it was painfully obvious in Philly year after year - multiple video compilations online of Simmons doing nothing on offense.

Then, after getting embarrassingly exposed in the POs for being the exact same flaw of a player he's always been, proceeds to go dark, cut off comms with his entire team and org (sound familiar y'all?? Insane that some of you want to go through this, again), while Embiid spends all off-season on the Sixers' training facility working on his game and conditioning. And, to top it all off, he demands to be traded off the team, and not to any team, but a specific list of, LA-centric, shortlist.

My god. Let some other, more desperate team have him, Spurs are in need of talent but not this badly. And especially not such fundamentally flawed talent.
This man gets it.

[CGD]

The team gets a first-rounder every year. Those aren't "hard one", and I've made my views on young guys clear multiple times. One of the best things about this trade is that it gets rid of some of them. The team has to cycle through prospects and be willing to shuffle out guys when they become obsolete. I'm looking at the bush of guards on the team and thinking, "Yeah, if pruning a couple of the weaker branches and tossing in some dirt gets a new horse, I'm happy to do it." I damned sure don't want to see Primo in Austin for two years because the team has "too many guys who need minutes to develop." That doesn't mean there's not a threshold where the price is too high. But I would rather the team know when you move on rather than cling to potential.

Pretty much this. Several of the “young guys” have aged out or are aging out of being prospects here soon. Time to trim the herd and get value.

Rinse and repeat, until you get land 2.5 foundational pieces to build around.

[CGD]

Why give up a ton for Simmons, one of the biggest playoff chokers of all time?

There is a big risk of him being a new Nick Anderson, whose career was obliterated by his choking. A very good starter evaporated. Simmons after that colossal choke is primed for collapse, he doesn't work on his game and refuses to try to improve.

Murray, Walker, and Aminu with a lotto protected first is about all he's worth, and that might be a overpay. Murray at least gets better every year.

And if Simmons can't get the team to the playoffs he's not worth a trade, that's why picks have to be protected.

Murray, Walker, pick and salary ballast would be great, put probably only the entry point for discussion with PHI.

[cjw]

I don't get why people want to include Poeltl? Spurs have no other proven bigs. Londale is a question mark, Eubanks is a third stringer, and Zollins is unable to walk, he was hanging out at summer league riding around on a mobility scooter because he has to stay off the feet.

Maybe I could see working GS into it and swapping Poeltl for Wiseman. Wiseman is worse, but theoretically has spacing to add to fit with Simmons and Poeltl would have a ton of shooting around him. Might need more from GS because of how good he'd be for them.

I think it’s the poor fit next to Simmons. But the Sixers have no need for Poeltl either.

Poeltl on the Warriors would be outstanding for them (if Draymond was the 30%+ from three version of himself)

[td4mvp2k]

Simmons is easier to build around. The team would be more up tempo but they will lack a go get a basket scorer.
+1 also think white can be that scorer until a youth like primo gets better or they find a FA to add on. so i think its important they keep white.

[HankChinaski]

There is nothing wrong talking hypotheticals

BUT

I see this guy as a locker room cancer.

He is due insane money and isn't desperate, there is going to be zero interest on Simmons part to change.

Chip isn't helping his shot.
Pop can't go talking family and influence a change.

How he fits this teams culture would be a mystery.

The only interest should be the spurs partaking in helping a 3+ team trade facilitating the move of Simmons so long as it warrants assets.

[Dverde]

No way 76ers want Poodle. They got two huge centers already. Maybe Spurs flip add a third team that includes a draft picks for Poodle. I still think the package is DJ or White, Chicago Bulls players filler, two of Lonnie, Vessell, Tre Jones, Luka with a draft pick. Spurs gotta keep Keldon to play with Simmons.

[Atl Spur]

Kristaps anyone?

[RC_Drunkford]

I've been thinking they are trying to get him tbh. Don't forget the Spurs also aquired 2 high 2nd rounders, which are basically the same worth like the 30th pick. Seems to me like they are trying to flip Young to get another 1st rounder for the Simmons sweep stakes or Philly could be interested in adding him as a bench piece.

I'm ok with getting him if we don't give up too much, only because we got Chip Engelland.

Spurs would probably offer something like Murray, Walker, Young, Chicagos 1st and two 2022 2nds

Sixers probably want White, Keldon, Young, Chicagos 1st, two Spurs 1sts

I also think Philly would be interested in White + Murray + picks and Brian Wright better tells them hell no

if this happens it's most likely a 3-team deal. Depends on what you give up to get him. It's that simple. No need to freak out people.

[FutureMan]

Maybe a three team trade?

IND: Murray & Samanic
PHI: Brogdon, Young, SAS 1st, & SAS 2nd
SAS: Simmons

[Mnky]

Nah, I think this board is more idiotic than pretty much any other NBA board. Every one has its clowns, but here the clowns have this multicolored jack off display on a regular basis. It's very amusing. What's great about this place is no one seems to have any notion of what the Spurs are as a team and a franchise. It's like you have to hit yourself over the head with a mallet at least two hundred times. It's pretty impressive.

This. It's wild there's adults in this world with such little affirmation in their lives.
It'd be nice just to talk basketball on a basketball forum.

This place is good for news though. Keeps all my spurs content updates in one area. :wakeup

[itzsoweezee]

Fuuuuck this noise.

This is a Kangz-level move, for real now. Y'all have been bitching about the "inept FO" moves all off-season long - this is precisely the move an inept FO would do. I too don't buy all this noise and "sources", it's clear the clock is ticking out on Simmons and the Klutch media machine is hoping now more than ever for a bidding war, lest Simmons be on the roster still come training camp.

:lmao at naive posters thinking Simmons is a "first domino" and would attract "ring chasers" to SanAn. Insane that after so many years this fantasy is still going strong, for BEN SIMMONS nonetheless... Who's he gonna drag down here? Be fucking real... Guy is hardly adequate as a #2 option, probably a #3, with the ego of a diva #1 to boot. Further :lmao at posters thinking his "issues are fixable", no they aren't - he literally shoots off the wrong fucking hand still, at twenty-fucking-five, be real. Chip could more easily get Poeltl shooting 3's than he would Simmons shooting them (matter-of-factly, Poeltl literally has a better jumper and touch than Simmons does, and I see nobody barking up that hopeless tree for some reason...).

Disgusting that it's even a consideration, can only hope it's media BS smoke and mirrors. Definitely would be my breaking point. Fuck Simmons and being locked into at least 4 years of mediocrity (the REAL mediocrity) paying his bum, beta ass $140 million dollars. I'd much, much rather bottom out and go get a player off the top lottery who isn't so fatally and fundamentally flawed in the most important aspect of the modern NBA as Simmons. Why do people even want him? You can't even play him for his defense in the 4th, he's been Hack-A-Shaq'd literally every single playoff series last season :lol

Once again... Fuck this.

Spurs are definitely not interested in bottoming out. Nothing they’ve done indicates they are going to do anything other than try to win as many games as possible this year, even though the roster sucks, as was the case the past three years.

The only positive I see is that I’d rather give a ton of money to a young player like Ben Simmons than a ton of money to a washed up vet like derozan.

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

simmons is flawed, maybe fatally, but the spurs don't have a single player on the roster that is worthy of sniffing his jock

i'd trade anyone on the roster plus a 1st for even a borderline all star, especially one with (maybe imaginary) potential to grow significantly

[LCM]

If the Spurs helped facilitate trade of Ben Simmons: 4 Teams

Suns - Thad Young

Kings - Ben Simmons, Luka Samanic, 2nd rd pick 2023 Spurs (via Pacers)

76ers - Dejounte Murray, Lonnie Walker, Dario Saric, Jalen Smith (1st rd picks - 2022 Sac, 2024 Sac - Lottery protected, 2025 Spurs (via Bulls)) (2nd rd picks 2022 Sac, 2025 Sac, 2025 Spurs (via Bulls))

Spurs - Tyrese Haliburton, Marvin Bagley III, Harrison Barnes

Spurs SL: T. Haliburton, D. White, K. Johnson, H. Barnes, J. Poeltl
Bench: T. Jones, D. Vassell, D. McDermott, M. Bagley, J. Landale
B. Forbes, AF Aminu, D. Eubanks, Z. Collins, J. Primo (Stretch waive Hutchinson)
Two way - Wieskamp, KBD?

If you rehabilitate Bagley, you can flip him for assets at trade deadline, and Barnes can be flipped in the offseason due to only being 29 and on an expiring contract of 18 million, very affordable. This also gives Collins time to get completely healthy, you get Haliburton on his rookie deal to be the head of the snake on offense, and you get Primo ready to eventually take over for White in the future instead of Murray. Your core becomes Haliburton, Primo, Johnson, Vassell, and Collins - you'll have glue guys like Wieskamp and Landale - and you'll still have your 1st rd picks to go hunting for that front court piece to put the team over the top. This trade also doesn't compromise any flexibility for 2023 FA class. Plus White can be used as a trade piece at that time as well.

The 76ers get a player in Murray who can run the team, needed front court depth with Smith. Drummond is backing up Embid, so Saric can rehab and fill that position next year, and Walker gets to play in his home state on a one year prove it deal or be flipped at trade deadline. They also get 6 picks in total, a blessing since Simmons value is dog shit right now (it's probably too many picks, I agree!).

76ers SL: DJM, LW4, Danny Green, Tobias Harris, Joel Embid
Bench: Maxey, Seth Curry, M. Thybelle, Jalen Smith, Drummond
Springer, Milton, Kurkmaz, Saric, Paul Reed (Stretch waive Tolliver)

Now, since I've put my contribution to bullshit nonsense up, I'm going to bed

[poopbox]

I feel like anybody that wants Ben Simmons on this team just doesn't fundamentally understand the game of basketball in 2021. Anybody who wants Simmons doesn't even understand the fundamental term of value because the spurs get way more value for what they pay in salary for dejounte production vs what they would pay in salary for Simmons production, and since Morey at the very least understands value their is around a 0% chance you are getting Simmons unless you trade Murray.

Also, there is no Joel Embiid in San Antonio. There is no big getting doubled every play giving Simmons plenty of room on the perimeter to work. There is no big that people are scared of leaving when Simmons goes to the paint so they just give him his layups, which other than fast break dunks and the occasional freethrows he does make, is the only way he scores. Those pip's are going to be much tougher to get in san antonio since they don't have a dominant big that a defender will be scared to take his body off of to challenge anybody guarding at the rim. We have the opposite problem. Poetl is such a pussy on offense that every big leaves his body and attacks any guard we have driving, which is why you see our guards have to pull up from the free throw line so much, because Poeltl's guy knows he's can challenge the guard and recover in time to challenge Poetl soft ass attempt, assuming they give a fuck about his little push shot in the first place, which they don't.

His defense is grossly overrated. He's got one of the better defensive bigs in the nba protecting the rim. He's got at least an average defender beside him in LDN. Thybulle is also a great defender. This should be obvious to people when LDN got hurt and didn't play against the hawks, Thybulle didn't get all those minutes cause he is awful defensively, and once that happened Trae cooked the shit out of Ben, who has virtually every physical advantage over him. You put Ben on the floor with Forbes and Mcbuckeets for 25 minutes and you going to have a bottom 5 defense for 25 minutes.

Not to mention the trade value of players. Murray is a desirable asset for virtually every time of the nba due to what he makes, he is theoretically somebody you could trade anywhere and get some value for, might not be equal value or the value you want, but you can get something. Same for white, same for vassell, same for lonnie. Ben has NO trade value, that's the whole reason why the spurs are even in the discussing in the first place, because no one else wants to be. You trade for Ben Simmons you will NEVER be able to trade Ben Simmons. And you here more about this guys night life than his basketball life. You think he is going to resign in San Antonio ? I don't. So you're not trading for Ben Simmons. You are trading for 4 years of a guy that nobody wants who is going to go play somewhere else when his contract is up. So what are the spurs doing in the 4 years that Ben Simmons is here? Probably trying to replace all the players they traded Ben Simmons for in the first place.

All of this "the spurs can change his game and make him more blah blah blah" is a pipe dream. What did they change about Derozan game ? Nothing. What did they change about LMA game? Nothing, the 3's he did finally start shooting he only shot cause he knew he was on his way out the league if he didn't, not because the spurs "changed" him. So not sure how anyone could be confident that they can get Ben to be something on the floor he doesn't want to be.

[Spursfanfromafar]

I think the Spurs start their offer with Murray, Young, Samanic, Walker and the Chicago 1st round pick and see if the Sixers bite.

[Sugus]

Spurs are definitely not interested in bottoming out. Nothing they’ve done indicates they are going to do anything other than try to win as many games as possible this year, even though the roster sucks, as was the case the past three years.

The only positive I see is that I’d rather give a ton of money to a young player like Ben Simmons than a ton of money to a washed up vet like derozan.

At some point, it's not about whether you're interested in bottoming out - you just do. We can argue how far, talent-wise, the current Spurs are from doing that, but we objectively are not that far away from that.

Given this landscape, there is no sense in bringing along Simmons, who not only 1. prevents the team's young players from getting better by demanding touches/attention/the roster to be shaped around him (we remember he's a "PG", right? And we're loaded with guards, right?), 2. is bound to create a conflict of interest with DJ/White/Keldon/whomever by demanding to be the "alpha" in the locker-room, by virtue of being massively paid compared to the rest of the roster, whilst being unable to back this persona up on the court, but also 3. isn't at all guaranteed to make the team better, due to being such a negative on offense (particularly half-court offense) but also, as said, demanding to be the lead ball-handler. We literally just got off DeRozan, who required a team of 3&D puppets around him to operate at his best, only to hypothetically jump into the Simmons wagon, who demands the exact same (impossible) configuration to be truly useful. And even then, as Philly has seen, you really can't count on him being aggressive enough when the lights shine bright.

Having said that - I do agree on your silver lining. Definitely prefer to pay young talent than washed up vets. BUT, and it's a big but - is Simmons really the only option for the Spurs' cap space being locked up the next 4 years? No. I see pro-Simmons posters posing this as a kind of binary choice (either the Spurs go for Simmons NOW, or never have the chance at another star again! Gotta buy when it's low!!), when it really, really isn't. I totally get that the Spurs are small market and can't be too picky with their opportunities... That doesn't mean shoot yourself in the foot in any ill-advised attempt at relevancy. There's levels to this.

As I said, an absolute Kangz move. No way around it tbh.

[playbonner15]

Derrick White w/ DG and Embiid... If the sixers can pull this off...

[Sugus]

All of this "the spurs can change his game and make him more blah blah blah" is a pipe dream. What did they change about Derozan game ? Nothing. What did they change about LMA game? Nothing, the 3's he did finally start shooting he only shot cause he knew he was on his way out the league if he didn't, not because the spurs "changed" him. So not sure how anyone could be confident that they can get Ben to be something on the floor he doesn't want to be.

Truth nuke.

For all the talk of delusion in this board, there's hardly a more deluded idea than believing Simmons is "a jumpshot away", or that he can develop one at all at this point in his career. The same way we saw DeRozan try year in, year out to add the 3 ball to his game, only to consistently go back to his comfort zone once things got tight - it's all the same for Benny boy. I confidently say we won't ever see him use jump shots of any kind as a reliable, go-to part of his scoring arsenal - and in '21 NBA, you simply can't have that out of a player you're devoting $140 MILLION towards.

[Sugus]

So Dejounte Murray is better than Ben Simmons?

Given their contracts, team roles, balance between offensive and defensive games, expectations regarding role on a team & their ability to lead it, improvement and developmental path so far, and especially their strengths and deficiencies in relation to their positional roles - yes. And I'm no Murray stan.

You can play one of those guys in the 4th quarter of a playoff game, but not the other one. What argument is there to be made, tbh?

[playblair]

stop comparing simmons to derozan..........derozan isnt 1/3 the player simmons is..........simmons is a superstar type of player derozan is not

[tbdog]

stop comparing simmons to derozan..........derozan isnt 1/3 the player simmons is..........simmons is a superstar type of player derozan is not

Not sure if that is the case.

[MarCowMar]

In the old days, if the Spurs were to "barge in" on trade discussions for a fundamentally flawed player, I would figure it would be to drive a foolish club to overpay even more. We used to be masters of the art of war and use every opportunity to undermine our opposition.

With Brian Wright in charge, we are now the foolish club that is about to get played. Instead of acknowledging the reality of this player and looking to exploit his tensions with Philly, we act based on emotion and hope, projecting a future for this "star" player that simply does not exist. We discard reason and long term plans, electing instead to roll the dice for a quick thrill; hoping that with clever coaching and a bit of luck it will all work out. This is the approach of a losing club.

[tbdog]

Given their contracts, team roles, balance between offensive and defensive games, expectations regarding role on a team & their ability to lead it, improvement and developmental path so far, and especially their strengths and deficiencies in relation to their positional roles - yes. And I'm no Murray stan.

You can play one of those guys in the 4th quarter of a playoff game, but not the other one. What argument is there to be made, tbh?

It comes down to FT shooting. Simmons shot 70% in his first playoff run but got worst, down to a shocking 34%. You get him back up to 70%, and you'll get a much better player. Even if he never wants to take a jumper again.

[tbdog]

People here are so low on simmons. It's the prefect time to trade for a star. It's all about the price.

[Sugus]

It comes down to FT shooting. Simmons shot 70% in his first playoff run but got worst, down to a shocking 34%. You get him back up to 70%, and you'll get a much better player. Even if he never wants to take a jumper again.

You're reinforcing my point, my guy.

What you say is - yet another - big, red flag attached to Simmons. When you talk about "getting [a player] back up to X%" you're usually saying, give the guy rest, some time, work on his mechanics, etc. And it's usually small percentage variations. With Benny, you're trying to surmount a drop of 36% in FT%, completely inexplainable beyond the simple fact that he doesn't have the mental fortitude to improve his game in the playoffs. Literally no other outside variations (we're not talking pull-up % or contested shot making, where defenders, matchups etc are factors; it's literally free throws). And then, you take into account the fact that teams were literally Hack-A-Shaq'ing this guy, because not only could he not punish teams for it, he got disgustingly worse at a basic part of the game under pressure. You think teams are gonna stop hacking him just because he's in SanAn instead of Philly? Hell no.

The book on stopping Simmons is out in the open for everyone to read. Every single team took notes (actually, smart teams have been taking notes for years now, like the Celtics). Unless you're thinking of a sports psychologist (which I have the feeling Benny won't take too well getting sent to), it sure as fuck ain't as easy as "getting him back up to 70%". The problem lies far deeper, deeper than SA can realistically hope to fix.

Damaged goods, as they call it. Dead end. Whatever you wanna call it.

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

People here are so low on simmons. It's the prefect time to trade for a star. It's all about the price.

yep the spurs young guns right now are at various stages of trying to prove themselves as solid role players, with maybe a couple (keldon/murrary) trying to grow into a legit #2/#3 player.

simmons is proven leaps and bound ahead of that.

if the deal is not extortionate, then why not do it?

(and i for one am bearish on simmons's future potential but his floor and ceiling are far beyond anyone on the spursies roster currently)

[gambit1990]

hang on to keldon and make this happen.

[gambit1990]

then again, philly has to want A LOT. they probably want murray, keldon, lonnie, and two 1st rounders at minimum.

[BillMc]

Whether we should or should not aside, is there credible evidence the Spurs are really in the game trying to acquire Simmons?

[gambit1990]

how was brett brown and simmons relationship?

reunion in sa?

[Uriel]

The most significant aspect of OP’s post isn’t the Ben Simmons news, IMO, but the tidbit about Pop wanting to go for the all-time wins record. If so, he really could be back for another year, which would be a significant development.

[rankingtear]

At this point we are already eating our young, time to cash in on hitting on draft picks. The only concern is finding that perimeter 5 to unlock Simmons offensively.

[ismael-robert]

Dj will take another step fwd this year n we'll all regret trading him for an average player who makes AS games on name alone

[daslicer]

Spurs will get hosed and end up giving up 4 first round picks for Ben.

[Em-City]

Am i the only one who would prefer thybulle over Simmons at this point?

[RC_Drunkford]

You're reinforcing my point, my guy.

What you say is - yet another - big, red flag attached to Simmons. When you talk about "getting [a player] back up to X%" you're usually saying, give the guy rest, some time, work on his mechanics, etc. And it's usually small percentage variations. With Benny, you're trying to surmount a drop of 36% in FT%, completely inexplainable beyond the simple fact that he doesn't have the mental fortitude to improve his game in the playoffs. Literally no other outside variations (we're not talking pull-up % or contested shot making, where defenders, matchups etc are factors; it's literally free throws). And then, you take into account the fact that teams were literally Hack-A-Shaq'ing this guy, because not only could he not punish teams for it, he got disgustingly worse at a basic part of the game under pressure. You think teams are gonna stop hacking him just because he's in SanAn instead of Philly? Hell no.

The book on stopping Simmons is out in the open for everyone to read. Every single team took notes (actually, smart teams have been taking notes for years now, like the Celtics). Unless you're thinking of a sports psychologist (which I have the feeling Benny won't take too well getting sent to), it sure as fuck ain't as easy as "getting him back up to 70%". The problem lies far deeper, deeper than SA can realistically hope to fix.

Damaged goods, as they call it. Dead end. Whatever you wanna call it.

lol the same exact thing could've been said about Jakob Poeltl's FT shooting but somehow y'all love the guy. Didn't he shoot 34% for half of the season and then got his percentage back up? You're overreacting here. I mean I doubt Ben Simmons will become a 3-point shooter, but him improving his FT% is a realistic thing

[baseline bum]

then again, philly has to want A LOT. they probably want murray, keldon, lonnie, and two 1st rounders at minimum.

So what if that's what they want? Look at what the Spurs got for Leonard: Poetl, a very late first, and a guy the Raptors wanted to salary dump anyways. Philly may want a Harden like return but they're not going to get one.

[slick'81]

The most significant aspect of OP’s post isn’t the Ben Simmons news, IMO, but the tidbit about Pop wanting to go for the all-time wins record. If so, he really could be back for another year, which would be a significant development.


Youd have to be pretty dense to believe hes not retiring,tbh

[CGD]

Am i the only one who would prefer thybulle over Simmons at this point?

Yes

[Chinook]

Even with his shooting issues, Simmons has always managed to be an efficient scorer. He's leaving points on the table for sure, but he's still generating a surplus for his team. Again, there's no virtue or insight in getting so caught up in a player's flaws that you miss how good he is. Simmons wouldn't be worth these packages if we knew he could be made to shoot well. He'd be worth everything the Spurs could bring to bear and more. The deals I'm proposing are with the understanding that Simmons is basically the same player he is now. Any marked improvement would just be gravy. Straight out of the box, he's worth one of the team's best guards, multiple rotation players/prospects and a pick or two. The only possible disrupting factor would be if he tells the Spurs he doesn't want to play there. But we actually have zero indication that he's worried about the location. Neither he nor his agent actually said the thing about California. Some guy for BR said that's what "he's been told", along with the Sixers desperately trying to trade Simmons during the draft and other predictions that haven't been too true.

[spurspl]

I think the Spurs start their offer with Murray, Young, Samanic, Walker and the Chicago 1st round pick and see if the Sixers bite.

this should be the final offer tbh

[MultiTroll]

Will the Spurs win as many Championships with Simmons as they did with LMA?

[exstatic]

Am i the only one who would prefer thybulle over Simmons at this point?

MT is more offensively fucked than Simmons.

[exstatic]

Youd have to be pretty dense to believe hes not retiring,tbh

He’s not retiring. He would have announced already. I thought he might earlier this year, but he’s not going to snake the Spurs by leaving them to put a staff together with just a couple of weeks until training camp.

[Dejounte]

Here's my two cents...

I'm neither strongly for or strongly against. The only reason I've been shrugging this off is because of its unlikelihood to happen. The Spurs had an opportunity to draft a "boom-or-bust" prospect in Jalen Johnson who had all the talent in the world. They went their usual "Spurs way" and likely avoided him due to character concerns. Going after Ben is a move in a similar vein, albeit a more immediate "boom". This news source, like with a lot of the news regarding the Spurs, is probably more clickbait. No one had info on the Spurs leading up the draft, how could they find any now? My guess is when Stein says the Spurs are trying to "barge", it's the Spurs trying to be a third team to move their lesser pieces.

IMO, it's pretty hard to envision Ben a fit for the Spurs, let alone any team. If I play along, assume this is real, and try to understand how or why the Spurs would want him, it wouldn't be because they think they can improve him as a shooter. Transition offense and overall defense is Ben's bread and butter. Knowing this, Kai would have been a draft target if Ben was in their plans. Anyway, given Ben's strengths, we'd expect a total revamp of the offense to become something like the Suns of yesteryear.

Now, if there were reasons to strongly oppose, you can find them easily. Ben is a clear non-shooter. Like, it would be foolish to project him to improve his shooting on the Spurs even with Chip on the team.

Ben takes 52.7% of his shots near the rim with good efficiency: 68.7%
And then most of the remaining shots are taken from 3-10 ft from the rim, with OK efficiency: 42.6%
Past 10 feet? He doesn't shoot at. all.

Since we're all familiar with Murray and his long range deficiencies, let's use him as an example to compare.

Murray's shot selections includes:
19.3% of his shots near the rim (64.9 FG%)
20.5% of his shots 3-10 ft away from the rim (39% FG%)
26.6% of his shots 10-16 ft away (45.2 FG%)
13.1% of his shots 16-3P away (31.7 FG%)

So it's a much more diverse shot selection for Murray.

Bottomline:
Simmons wouldn't change into a halfcourt player overnight. If the Spurs get him (which I still believe is extremely unlikely), it would be an interesting thing to watch for sure. Like, he's a much more flawed offensive player than DeMar who we all tore our hair out for several seasons. Could it make the Spurs more entertaining? Possibly. Is it happening? Doubtful.

[Dennis the Menace]

Ben Simmons sucks. Do not want

[acoelho1]

This is a hard pass for me and only because it would probably require multiple players and picks for a player that clearly has some mental issues when it comes to shooting. It’s not like he has a broken jump shot and no one (including the Spurs) will be able to get into his head to see if he can overcome those issues.

Also, bringing in Summons doesn’t move the needle in my opinion to getting us back to contention because he can never be a franchise player given aforementioned issue. If his mentality was more like Giannis even at 19% from 3 in the playoffs, I would be much more inclined with taking the risk. I haven’t seen anything from Simmons on the course he’s been on that will change and I’m not prepared to lose Murray or any of our young talent since their ceiling as players hasn’t yet to be reached.

Our best move is to continue to develop our assets and draft wisely. This coming year will tell us a lot about where we are as a franchise so I think we should ride it out this year and can do a revaluation next summer.

[Dennis the Menace]

Yeah let’s trade the farm for a Point Guard who literally can’t shoot the ball. I can only think of a handful of more painful things to do than to watch this man shoot.

I still have hope this front office hasn’t turned into “Cleveland”

[DPG21920]

One would think that between SA relationship with not only Mills, but the Australian coaches as a whole, that they have a clear picture of who Simmons is.

I cannot imagine them wanting Simmons if the reports from Mills and/or AUS coaches were negative. So that alone makes me feel better about that aspect.

I’m assuming they are ok with the character side if they indeed have interest. Is there any quotes in the last 2 years from Mills on Simmons?

[baseline bum]

Yeah let’s trade the farm for a Point Guard who literally can’t shoot the ball. I can only think of a handful of more painful things to do than to watch this man shoot.

I still have hope this front office hasn’t turned into “Cleveland”

No one wants to trade the farm for Simmons. The farm would be Murray + White + Johnson + Poetl. Murray is the only one I'd give up in a trade for Simmons because he'd be unplayable next to Simmons.

[MultiTroll]

I’m assuming they are ok with the character side if they indeed have interest. Is there any quotes in the last 2 years from Mills on Simmons?
Yes. Patty told Simmons how fleeceable Pop was.

[Leetonidas]

No one wants to trade the farm for Simmons. The farm would be Murray + White + Johnson + Poetl. Murray is the only one I'd give up in a trade for Simmons because he'd be unplayable next to Simmons.

Our "farm" is full of middling talent anyway :lol it's laughable how many dudes here think we have a collection of studs that are untouchable in trade talks

[Chinook]

Our "farm" is full of middling talent anyway :lol it's laughable how many dudes here think we have a collection of studs that are untouchable in trade talks

Yeah, basically White's the only guy you hesitate to put in the trade, because he and Simmons would fit really well together. Poeltl's a good player, and the Spurs shouldn't trade him just because he theoretically doesn't fit with Simmons, but it's okay to go into next season not knowing who your championship-caliber five will be. They'd have a couple of years to figure that out. I wouldn't trade Keldon as a throw-in, but if Philly sees him as the main piece and it lets SA keep most of their other assets, I'd be willing to let him go. Despite the hype, Johnson wasn't good last year. He has some potential, but he hasn't shown that he's the guy SA should hitch their hopes to in any way other than temperament.

[DPG21920]

The tricky part would be if they asked for Murray AND White. On one hand that’s really tough for SA since they are very good players on good contracts. But it also means keeping all the other younger prospects too.

If it’s something like Murray + White + Jakob + 2 firsts that’s a tough one to swallow although it may be the best way to hedge for SA too by having all the younger prospects + Ben

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

Our "farm" is full of middling talent anyway :lol it's laughable how many dudes here think we have a collection of studs that are untouchable in trade talks

But muh lonnyy and his 11/3/2 line last year

[exstatic]

But muh lonnyy and his 11/3/2 line last year

He’s the first one I put on the block.

[baseline bum]

The tricky part would be if they asked for Murray AND White. On one hand that’s really tough for SA since they are very good players on good contracts. But it also means keeping all the other younger prospects too.

If it’s something like Murray + White + Jakob + 2 firsts that’s a tough one to swallow although it may be the best way to hedge for SA too by having all the younger prospects + Ben

I'm only for trading for Simmons if Philly is forced to give him away like the Spurs were with Leonard. Way too many question marks to trade the two productive players on the team for.

[DPG21920]

I'm only for trading for Simmons if Philly is forced to give him away like the Spurs were with Leonard. Way too many question marks to trade the two productive players on the team for.

Yup. I’m with you in general. It’s a very conflicting scenario and I’ve always learned no unless it was a clear value trade.

[offset formation]

I think the Spurs start their offer with Murray, Young, Samanic, Walker and the Chicago 1st round pick and see if the Sixers bite.

Ill boycott the team for a yr ala playblair if they do anything remotely close to this. This would be gross incompetence and demonstrate a basic misunderstanding of front office operations, player development, and ones own place as an organization.

this move gets you no closer to playoff basketball. it undercuts the "spurs way" in so many fundamental ways as to completely deviate from the only path this team has for success.

[NASpurs]

Didn’t we just get rid of a guy who didn’t take threes?

At least this one plays defense I guess.

[DPG21920]

Didn’t we just get rid of a guy who didn’t take threes?

At least this one plays defense I guess.

Correct. Definitely a huge issue but one still makes it possible to be a net + while DDr never really could.

[Dejounte]

Didn’t we just get rid of a guy who didn’t take threes?

At least this one plays defense I guess.

Yeah, and that guy took long 2's. This guy won't even attempt long 2's. Not that I'm advocating for long 2's... but at least it stretches the offense somewhat. Everything is close to the rim.

[Degoat]

The Pros & Cons of Ben simmons

Pros
- great perimeter defender
- play maker
- has Size
- still has upside/all star talent

Cons-

-refuses to shoot/can’t shoot
- bit of a diva
- work ethic questions

There’s plenty more that could be added but if a deal is right I’d say the spurs should go for it! I think it’s really hard to find a guy as talent as he can be with his size, and having someone his size is so crucial to today’s game.

[offset formation]

Correct. Definitely a huge issue but one still makes it possible to be a net + while DDr never really could.

Team would still be heavily reliant on the 3 and D guys, even moreso than with Demar. But we just added the worst statistical defender in the League. And McDermott who has blow-by potential. And Demar scored from the midrange and inside. Ben only scores inside. Is a FT disaster unlike Demar. Demar ended up averaging 6 APG last year too. So offensively, its not even close how much of a downturn he'd be.

The only advantage and difference is his D. Which makes the question does the defensive change overcome the offensive one? Given the other 3 and D guys on the roster Id say hell naw.

This team is like a 34-48 team without Simmons. And like 38-44 with. About exactly what we were with Demar. But in order to get Simmons, we lose picks and solid bench or starters.

None of this makes sense.

The only way the Spurs get back is through the draft.

[Russ]

Didn’t we just get rid of a guy who didn’t take threes?

At least this one plays defense I guess.


Correct. Definitely a huge issue but one still makes it possible to be a net + while DDr never really could.

The issue with Simmons isn't his 3 point shooting, it's his FT shooting -- that makes him unplayable in the crutch.

DRR, by contrast, was one of the best FT shooters in the entire league. Sure, neither can shoot 3s but the FT shooting makes it a huge difference between them.

[DPG21920]

Team would still be heavily reliant on the 3 and D guys, even moreso than with Demar. But we just added the worst statistical defender in the League. And McDermott who has blow-by potential. And Demar scored from the midrange and inside. Ben only scores inside. Is a FT disaster unlike Demar. Demar ended up averaging 6 APG last year too. So offensively, its not even close how much of a downturn he'd be.

The only advantage and difference is his D. Which makes the question does the defensive change overcome the offensive one? Given the other 3 and D guys on the roster Id say hell naw.

This team is like a 34-48 team without Simmons. And like 38-44 with. About exactly what we were with Demar.

Im simply saying, metrics wise, Simmons despite his flaws has graded out as a net positive. Ddr never really has despite all of the above.

[DPG21920]

The issue with Simmons isn't his 3 point shooting, it's his FT shooting -- that makes him unplayable in the crutch.

DRR, by contrast, was one of the best FT shooters in the entire league. Sure, neither can shoot 3s but the FT shooting makes it a huge difference between them.

Maybe. Seems like Simmons has a way better shot at getting a team like Sa to the playoffs where his short comings will be exposed. DDR can’t even get you to the playoffs but if he did he may not be as easy to expose.

[Russ]

Maybe. Seems like Simmons has a way better shot at getting a team like Sa to the playoffs where his short comings will be exposed. DDR can’t even get you to the playoffs but if he did he may not be as easy to expose.

If the point is simply that Simmons is a better player, you're probably right. But when discussing their respective deficiencies, FT shooting is a huge factor.

[Dennis the Menace]

Spurs need to tank for 2 seasons. This isn’t complicated. Only way they screw things up at this point is if they go out of their way to screw things up.

Just TANK

[DPG21920]

If the point is simply that Simmons is a better player, you're probably right. But when discussing their respective deficiencies, FT shooting is a huge factor.

Yes. But all that matters is net good or bad. He’s consistently been a net + whereas DDR has not. For whatever reason. Despite many flaws.

[offset formation]

Spurs need to tank for 2 seasons. This isn’t complicated. Only way they screw things up at this point is if they go out of their way to screw things up.

Just TANK

we dont even have to tank really with the extra firsts from Chicago and the potential for another with a Thad Young trade. We'll suck for another year probably so we should get a shot at a high lottery pick. Those picks, the extra 2nds we have, and the Spurs player development system ought to get us back to annual playoff runs within the next 2 to 3 years.

I feel really good saying a team of Johnson, White, Primo, Murray, Jones, Vassell, Samanich, Poeltl?, Jock, plus several other first rounders get us back to relevancy sooner than a potential Simmons trade ever will, imo.

[poopbox]

yep the spurs young guns right now are at various stages of trying to prove themselves as solid role players, with maybe a couple (keldon/murrary) trying to grow into a legit #2/#3 player.

simmons is proven leaps and bound ahead of that.

if the deal is not extortionate, then why not do it?

(and i for one am bearish on simmons's future potential but his floor and ceiling are far beyond anyone on the spursies roster currently)

What does this mean? What has Simmons proven that he can do that any other guard on our team can't do, other than be scared to shoot the basketball and be so bad at free throw shooting that the hawks won a playoff series against the 76ers by going to hack a simmons? That you have to take him off the floor at the end of games against some teams because he doesn't make free throws, he doesn't threaten the defense, and really good players don't have any problems scoring against him so he doesn't even help your defense late in games.

What am I missing? What exactly is Ben Simmons basketball talent other than being really tall for the position he desires to play, which is point guard?

[poopbox]

Yes. But all that matters is net good or bad. He’s consistently been a net + whereas DDR has not. For whatever reason. Despite many flaws.

Thats because Simmons doesn't carry any offensive responsibility for a team other than passing the ball where Derozan has the responsibility of passing it, scoring, getting to the line, etc.

I'm not a fan of Derozan but Ben is several tiers below him as a player, primarily because you can at least give derozan the ball and because of his high level scoring, passing, and sometimes playmaking ability, he can be the lead guard in a really efficient and fast paced offense. Not possible for Ben due to his inability to shoot and shrinking at the end of games cause he scared to go to the freethrow line. Derozan has missed more than his fair share of end of game freethrows, but at least he stays aggressive and gets to the line to take them. Ben won't ever have high pressure end of game freethrows cause the second he touches the ball at the end of games he is passing it to someone cause he scared to death to get fouled and have to shoot the freethrows.

[Chinook]

As I said before, Simmons and DeRozan are close when you factor in things like attitude and durability. But DeRozan is at his peak, while Simmons even physically isn't quite there. He doesn't have to learn to shoot to improve notably. He just has to become better at what he already does. I think his prime is going to be when he finally slows down enough to where he HAS to play PF, because he'll be dominant there.

[weeks]

Yes. But all that matters is net good or bad. He’s consistently been a net + whereas DDR has not. For whatever reason. Despite many flaws.

East Coast team, w skilled big

[DPG21920]

East Coast team, w skilled big

If he goes west we will see. I’m not strongly advocating anything here; just going by the actual numbers we’ve seen so far * shrugs *

[exstatic]

Ill boycott the team for a yr ala playblair if they do anything remotely close to this. This would be gross incompetence and demonstrate a basic misunderstanding of front office operations, player development, and ones own place as an organization.

this move gets you no closer to playoff basketball. it undercuts the "spurs way" in so many fundamental ways as to completely deviate from the only path this team has for success.

Only Murray has real value in that amalgamation. Two never where’s, and an ending contract is the rest.

[ismael-robert]

Too bad contracts don't match cause I'd only give one for one for Simmons. White or Murray n nothing else...and again we'll regret it

[heyheymymy]

Man, sugus is the voice of reason and offset doing work as well.

I was swept away in the Simmons deal and you two really brought me back to reality.

I think we are just looking at the roster mess and eager for a move and Simmons got a bit lusted after but yeah, it's a terrible idea.

Not cool with letting Murray go and I want to retain poeltl too.

[TD 21]

Maybe a three team trade?

IND: Murray & Samanic
PHI: Brogdon, Young, SAS 1st, & SAS 2nd
SAS: Simmons

I don't know how I forgot about Brogdon (who the Pacers supposedly offered, along with a 1st, for Simmons a while back), but he's pretty much exactly what I've been describing. I'd tweak it . . .

Pacers: Murray, Samanic
76ers: Brogdon, Smith, Spurs lightly protected '22 1st, Bulls '25 protected 1st and 2nd (via Spurs)
Suns: Young, Eubanks
Spurs: Simmons, Saric, Suns '23 protected 1st

It's probably not quite enough for the Pacers or 76ers though.



Our "farm" is full of middling talent anyway :lol it's laughable how many dudes here think we have a collection of studs that are untouchable in trade talks

I've been trying to tell them for years, but they don't get it. They're still drinking the Spurs mystique Kool-Aid and conflating most of these players being solid or potentially so and good value relative to where picked for being the makings of a team of consequence in the future.

[SpursDynasty85]

I’m not sure Simmons is worth that money nor convinced he would even want to be in SA long term. Then you have to think if we are even contenders with that team. All of which looks doubtful. Very unlikely a trade where Simmons is on the Spurs works. Maybe the Spurs want to just be a part of some multi-team trades where they get first rounders and Phi gets our assets.

[Russ]

The problem is . . .


I've been trying to tell them for years, but they don't get it. They're still drinking the Spurs mystique Kool-Aid and conflating most of these players being solid or potentially so and good value relative to where picked for being the makings of a team of consequence in the future.

And yet those guys will somehow be traded for . . .


Spurs: Simmons, Saric, Suns '23 protected 1st

Not trying to flame (is that the internet word?) on ya, but it does make you wonder.

[TD 21]

The problem is . . .



And yet those guys will somehow be traded for . . .



Not trying to flame (is that the internet word?) on ya, but it does make you wonder.

The problem is, you either didn't read or comprehend because you were too caught up in trying to play "gotcha".

My fake proposals have had little to no Spurs going to the 76ers and the point wasn't that the Spurs' youth has no value individually, it's that collectively they're lacking.

[Russ]

The problem is, you either didn't read or comprehend because you were too caught up in trying to play "gotcha".

My fake proposals have had little to no Spurs going to the 76ers and the point wasn't that the Spurs' youth has no value individually, it's that collectively they're lacking.

Sorry, man, I didn't realize your proposals were fake.

(Jesus Christ, I just did it again. :depressed)

[exstatic]

Sorry, man, I didn't realize your proposals were fake.

Pretzel logic. My proposal is shit on, so I say it’s fake.

[TD 21]

Sorry, man, I didn't realize your proposals were fake.

(Jesus Christ, I just did it again. :depressed)

Shocking as it may be, I'm not Pop or Morey, so I won't be able to consummate a trade.

[DPG21920]

Shocking as it may be, I'm not Pop or Morey, so I won't be able to consummate a trade.

Tbh they probably can’t either so don’t beat yourself up over it.

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

What does this mean? What has Simmons proven that he can do that any other guard on our team can't do, other than be scared to shoot the basketball and be so bad at free throw shooting that the hawks won a playoff series against the 76ers by going to hack a simmons? That you have to take him off the floor at the end of games against some teams because he doesn't make free throws, he doesn't threaten the defense, and really good players don't have any problems scoring against him so he doesn't even help your defense late in games.

What am I missing? What exactly is Ben Simmons basketball talent other than being really tall for the position he desires to play, which is point guard?

lol don't know how to respond to this because it's so obvious but provide some stats that show how any of our young spursies is in simmons' league, and i'll pay attention

[DPG21920]

lol don't know how to respond to this because it's so obvious but provide some stats that show how any of our young spursies is in simmons' league, and i'll pay attention

Player A per 36: 17.7 PTS / 8 REB / 6 AST / 1.7 STL / 45% FG / 79% FT / PER: 16.5 / VORP 1.4 / WS 3.3

Player B per 36: 16 PTS / 8 REB / 7.7 AST / 1.8 STL / 55% FG / 61% FT / PER: 18.3 / VORP 2.2 / WS 6

Which one is Simmons and which one is Murray?

[Russ]

Shocking as it may be, I'm not Pop or Morey, so I won't be able to consummate a trade.

Me neither. :toast

[Drom John]

Simmons and DeRozan are close when you factor everything in, but the things holding Ben back are theoretically workable. Him being younger and signed to a long-term deal are also things hugely in his favor.

FiveThirtyEight Raptor WAR

37) Danny Green, Royce O'Neal, Ben Simmons
96) Jarrett Allen, Chris Boucher, DeMar DeRozan, Duncan Robinson, Domantis Sabonis, Christian Wood.

DeRozan 3.6 Off; -2.9 Def.
Simmons 0.7 Off; 1.8 Def.

[Em-City]

MT is more offensively fucked than Simmons.
At least he isn't scared of shooting the three.. isn't a mental midget, and doesn't have the contractual baggage of simmons. He would also probably have good trade value for a contender.

He had a great Olympics and i can see him building off it if he gets minutes this season.

[Em-City]

Player A per 36: 17.7 PTS / 8 REB / 6 AST / 1.7 STL / 45% FG / 79% FT / PER: 16.5 / VORP 1.4 / WS 3.3

Player B per 36: 16 PTS / 8 REB / 7.7 AST / 1.8 STL / 55% FG / 61% FT / PER: 18.3 / VORP 2.2 / WS 6

Which one is Simmons and which one is Murray?

Murray is the one who is able to stay on the court in the 4th qtr

[spurs1990]

Ben Simmons a Spur? I just don’t see it.

Ben was exposed league wide for the player that he is this past playoff season. What’s comical to me though…this is the exact same player that was game-planned against by the Celtics several seasons ago in the Playoffs. It was thought that the lack of shooting, poor roster construction was the issue (which is somewhat valid). This past season though, no excuse.

You don’t build your team around a Draymond Green…Why do it for one sans a killer instinct?

https://twitter.com/CPTheDoc334/status/1404568916890996740?s=20

If that shoot around video is legit he'll soon be in the pantheon of hated Spurs franchise guys of which DeRozan is a single member.

For those who want him this was his play that cemented Philly wanting to unload him. Not unlike Raptors wanting to dump DeRozan after his 4th Qt benching in the playoffs vs James and co.

Of course we'll give him a chance as Spurs fans initially but based on his career thus far it's gonna be a long road for him to measure up to the haul the front office gives up for him.


https://youtu.be/-EHA4UhYuQY

[TDMVPDPOY]

guy is a fkn scrub, 5yrs in the league..yet doesnt have a jumpshot to rely on

makes a dunk and screams like a bitch like he did some meaningful to the scoreboard...

[Ocotillo]

I just don't want the guy. Multiple reasons but at the end of the day, he is not as competitive as any of the guys we would have to give up to get him. Maybe he changes, I am not willing to ship out talent and pay him his salary for his lack of heart.

[tbdog]

I just don't want the guy. Multiple reasons but at the end of the day, he is not as competitive as any of the guys we would have to give up to get him. Maybe he changes, I am not willing to ship out talent and pay him his salary for his lack of heart.

Just remember fur every sixers playoff failure, he was the scape goat for simply not fitting with Embid. From the sounds of this, sixers locker room is a mess.

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

Player A per 36: 17.7 PTS / 8 REB / 6 AST / 1.7 STL / 45% FG / 79% FT / PER: 16.5 / VORP 1.4 / WS 3.3

Player B per 36: 16 PTS / 8 REB / 7.7 AST / 1.8 STL / 55% FG / 61% FT / PER: 18.3 / VORP 2.2 / WS 6

Which one is Simmons and which one is Murray?

The one with far superior advanced stats. You left out (flawed) plusminus too btw

[DPG21920]

The one with far superior advanced stats. You left out (flawed) plusminus too btw

Far superior? Plenty of advanced stats, especially https://www.bball-index.com/ have DJ and Simmons impact very close FWIW.

[Trueblood]

Player A per 36: 17.7 PTS / 8 REB / 6 AST / 1.7 STL / 45% FG / 79% FT / PER: 16.5 / VORP 1.4 / WS 3.3

Player B per 36: 16 PTS / 8 REB / 7.7 AST / 1.8 STL / 55% FG / 61% FT / PER: 18.3 / VORP 2.2 / WS 6

Which one is Simmons and which one is Murray?

FT% kind of give it away tbh :lol

But in all seriousness I really agree with this. I think the ONLY thing you can reasonably say Simmons does better than DM is guard the 4-5. Some people on here are ready to sell the farm for a slightly taller Murray.

[DPG21920]

FT% kind of give it away tbh :lol

But in all seriousness I really agree with this. I think the ONLY thing you can reasonably say Simmons does better than DM is guard the 4-5. Some people on here are ready to sell the farm for a slightly taller Murray.

He does several things better probably, but the question is his impact so much greater than Murrays along with DJ coming into a more prominent role, worth giving up a lot for?

It gets pretty damn murky IMO and depends on how much you think Ben can make a leap. He’s still fine if he doesn’t leap, but if that gap keeps closing because Murray keeps improving then the impact Murray has on winning (when surrounded by good players like Ben was) means that SA shouldn’t be giving up too much IMO

[objective]

Imagine what would happen when Ben Simmons refuses to take a dunk in the 4th quarter of a game 7 for San Antonio

Big time shoulder rubs from Pop, just like whenever Forbes was a 4th quarter disaster.

I can kind of see it now, lol. Murray has too much fire, Simmons has the right kind of no-threes, no-twos, no-free-throws dribble dribble dribble game that Pop might be going for

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

Far superior? Plenty of advanced stats, especially https://www.bball-index.com/ have DJ and Simmons impact very close FWIW.

paywall sorry :(

dejounte took a big leap last year; simmons had a subpar year last year, and simmons is still far ahead.

simmons also is physically superior. people are counting on dejounte to keep on getting better but there's no guarantee he'll ever be better than simmons is right now ... and if spurs do trade for simmons it would be betting that he can sort out his glaring weaknesses (in spite of which, he remains way better than any of the spurs yoof)

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

don't get me wrong. i'm not super-high on ben. i'm just relatively down on the spurs youngsters, compared to most on this board

[DPG21920]

paywall sorry :(

dejounte took a big leap last year; simmons had a subpar year last year, and simmons is still far ahead.

simmons also is physically superior. people are counting on dejounte to keep on getting better but there's no guarantee he'll ever be better than simmons is right now ... and if spurs do trade for simmons it would be betting that he can sort out his glaring weaknesses (in spite of which, he remains way better than any of the spurs yoof)

You keep saying that but I literally posted the raw per 36 numbers and a link to advanced stats that LITERALLY say he was not “far” ahead. Especially on impact stats.

One could argue that while Simmons had a subpar year, he also played in a far weaker conference, alongside an MVP level player and better all around team to make things a lot easier for him.

Agree on the part that DJ may never be better than Simmons is now; but that’s not really the question here. It’s how much does SA give up for someone who right now isn’t light years ahead already? And will the gap close more or will Simmons finally improve his game and stop relying strictly on the talent he came into the league with.

That’s a tough question.

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

You keep saying that but I literally posted the raw per 36 numbers and a link to advanced stats that LITERALLY say he was not “far” ahead. Especially on impact stats.



win share rank -- ben 39 dejounte 131
vorp rank - ben 38 dejounte 69
per rank - ben 53 dejounte 76
bpm rank - ben 40 dejounte 77

i looked at the LEBRON ratings and yes they have ben being better on D and dejounte being better on O and them evening out

otoh 538's RAPTOR ratings has ben being equal on O and far superior on D

so unless you are talking strictly about LEBRON ... ben is unquestionably a tier above dejounte (with a far higher hypothetical ceiling imo)

[DPG21920]

Point being I think it’s obvious with the situation that SA is in, they should absolutely be doing their due diligence on situations like Simmons or any other “star” that may be available. But they also need to tread lightly for “stars” like Simmons that come with so many question marks.

They need to stick to a firm offer and if that can’t get it done, walk away and protect the franchise. But I am fine with taking a swing on Simmons even if its not my preferred path. But I would understand it and support it and be excited to see what happens. But only if the cost is reasonable (which is a very debatable and subjective thing at the moment).

Again - for me it would need to be something like Murray - Thad - Jakob - CHI 1st and maybe another lottery protected 1st. But that is like my max offer I can understand.

[DPG21920]

win share rank -- ben 39 dejounte 131
vorp rank - ben 38 dejounte 69
per rank - ben 53 dejounte 76
bpm rank - ben 40 dejounte 77

i looked at the LEBRON ratings and yes they have ben being better on D and dejounte being better on O and them evening out

otoh 538's RAPTOR ratings has ben being equal on O and far superior on D

so unless you are talking strictly about LEBRON ... ben is unquestionably a tier above dejounte (with a far higher hypothetical ceiling imo)

You can be quasi far apart in rankings but in reality the gap is very close. And yes, I do place a little more emphasis on LEBRON right now personally; I think it’s a nice stat.

[DPG21920]

But of course I am not saying DJ>Simmons. I am simply saying DJ has been steadily closing the gap, he’s about to get his first role as a leading guy (he has gotten minutes and stuff but there is no real high usage guy in front of him now) and that there is real risk with Ben.

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

But of course I am not saying DJ>Simmons. I am simply saying DJ has been steadily closing the gap, he’s about to get his first role as a leading guy (he has gotten minutes and stuff but there is no real high usage guy in front of him now) and that there is real risk with Ben.

This is true but i personally am not a bejountever

[RC_Drunkford]

I‘d rather move White than Murray. DJ has improved every year, if he keeps that up he‘ll be a real piece while White is who he is and has no significant room for improvement other than shooting a lil bit better % from 3

[ducks]

I move walker he is woke
Always a loser and a piece of shit

I had hopes for him but he sure declined last year

[XDT76]

ST shitting on all our players wanted to trade for a player on $35M/yr for the next 4 yrs who could not shoot with poor FT%, has a total of 3FA in 4th Q over 7 playoffs? Boy, the same guys would want him out within a month and shits on PAFTO for unable to move him.

[Wu36]

Nice you had time between hitting Crtl-alt-delete all day to say something. Good job.

[Robz4000]

OT but Murray's sister died. RIP.

[offset formation]

OT but Murray's sister died. RIP.

sad to hear. my condolences to him and those that knew her.

[baseline bum]

OT but Murray's sister died. RIP.

Damn, that's awful to lose a sister so young. :pctoss

[Em-City]

The issue with Simmons isn't his 3 point shooting, it's his FT shooting -- that makes him unplayable in the crutch.

DRR, by contrast, was one of the best FT shooters in the entire league. Sure, neither can shoot 3s but the FT shooting makes it a huge difference between them.
The issue most definitely is his 3pt shooting AND his fts.

Even if he could hit fts, the lack of spacing on offense is a huge issue.

[99 Problems]

Waiting for the 1st “Simmons just took off on a jet for San Antonio” “My mate works at the airport and Simmons and others just left for San Antonio” “Pop, Brian Wright and Burford just arrived in Philly looking tight lipped” “I’m at this restaurant on a date with a really hot chick and guess wot, Simmons is meeting with San Antonio front office” “Simmons just purchased a house down the street from me close to Patty Mills arena, home of the Spurs” “Ben just enrolled his pet cat in cat classes down by the river walk”

It’s happening…..

[ismael-robert]

I'm not a stat geek but I'm going out on a limb assuming those vorp, win shares, LeBron, raptor type numbers are influenced by your team actually winning??? So if your on a squad that has been a contender past couple years and then wanna compare to a team that's been in limbo/slow rebuild mode that's going to be a grossly skewed comparison. And of course Ben's shooting percentage being so much higher is cause it's all layups and Djs actually includes midrange game n 3s

[BillMc]

Waiting for the 1st “Simmons just took off on a jet for San Antonio” “My mate works at the airport and Simmons and others just left for San Antonio” “Pop, Brian Wright and Burford just arrived in Philly looking tight lipped” “I’m at this restaurant on a date with a really hot chick and guess wot, Simmons is meeting with San Antonio front office” “Simmons just purchased a house down the street from me close to Patty Mills arena, home of the Spurs” “Ben just enrolled his pet cat in cat classes down by the river walk”

It’s happening…..

I've asked before, but are there any reliable sources saying the Spurs are even in discussion with Philly about Simmons? I mean other than the odd investigative call. Have there been any serious discussions that we know of? Thanks.

[mo7888]

I've asked before, but are there any reliable sources saying the Spurs are even in discussion with Philly about Simmons? I mean other than the odd investigative call. Have there been any serious discussions that we know of? Thanks.

Marc Stein's podcast is the closest thing we have...

[rankingtear]

Marc Stein's podcast is the closest thing we have...

Antonio Daniels on NBA Radio too.

[scott]

So many posters seem to be overlooking the fact that Simmons fucking sucks.

If he was a FA, he would be a $14m/yr player that teams would hesitate on due to his attitude and work ethic.

[scott]

But of course I am not saying DJ>Simmons. I am simply saying DJ has been steadily closing the gap, he’s about to get his first role as a leading guy (he has gotten minutes and stuff but there is no real high usage guy in front of him now) and that there is real risk with Ben.

I’ll happily say DJ>Ben.

Being able to be on the floor in the 4th Q isn’t a stat, but maybe it should be.

[BillMc]

Marc Stein's podcast is the closest thing we have...


Antonio Daniels on NBA Radio too.

Cheers. What did they say? (In summary or the gist of it.) Thanks.

[rankingtear]

Cheers. What did they say? (In summary or the gist of it.) Thanks.

AD then mentions that since he still lives in San Antonio and still talks with the brass over there, there are talks of an up and coming Ben Simmons trade. He wouldn’t go in more detail or give up his sources when Rick pushed him for more.

Zach Lowe :

Several teams -- including the Warriors, Spurs and Minnesota Timberwolves (https://www.espn.com/nba/team/_/name/min/minnesota-timberwolves) -- have discussed Simmons with varying degrees of interest, sources said, but one reason talks haven't gone far is that the Sixers likely view Simmons as their path to Lillard.

[jjspur]

Bottom line: San Antonio is a small market that has overachieved. Players like Ben Simmons don't like small markets. I truly believe he is looking to go to a larger or more visible market to rehab his failing image. The only thing we do really know is that he probably won't be back in Philly and the odds of him coming to SA are very slim to none, no matter how many ST posters want it.

Its been said that he has no leverage, but he actually does have some. His leverage is his salary. He personally as a player doesn't have much but Philly is asking a ton and then some for the ghost of Simmons past, and some team will probably get dumb & desperate and then trade for him giving Philly a very bright future for a declining player. Even as bad as the spurs have been the last few years, I just don't see the spurs gutting a good part of the team and robbing their future for Simmons. Its just not in their nature.

The most likely thing to all this, is that the spurs might be a 3rd or 4th team to help facilitate a Simmons trade and maybe get something of value in return. They finally learned that trick this summer with the Westbrook trade. Perhaps they can do it again in a Simmons trade. That's 100 times more likely than Simmons actually playing for the spurs.

[TD 21]

Brogdon (who the Pacers supposedly offered, along with a 1st, for Simmons a while back)

Pacers: Murray, Samanic

It's probably not quite enough for the Pacers

On second thought, it's definitely not enough . . . if the misguided fools who think they're defending the Spurs honor weren't too busy attempting to play gotcha with something they misconstrued, they could have been calling me on this. :lmao

[BacktoBasics]

I move walker he is woke
Always a loser and a piece of shit

I had hopes for him but he sure declined last year
Never a response from this pussy.

Why do you still post here? No one fucking wants your participation.

[Leetonidas]

Never a response from this pussy.

Why do you still post here? No one fucking wants your participation.

Dude loves crying about politics in the NBA yet he won't stfu and constantly brings that shit into everything he posts here :lol

[mo7888]

Cheers. What did they say? (In summary or the gist of it.) Thanks.

Marc said we were trying to barge to the head of the Simmons sweepstakes (I'm paraphrasing)..

[cjw]

Simmons has barely improved since he came into the league. If he didn’t have his pedigree, he’d be a $20mm a year player at most and that’s only because of his defense.

Instead of figuring out how we can get Simmons, Wright should be figuring out ways to turn the pupu platter of decent young pieces that the clock is ticking on before they’ll be on more expensive contracts to help facilitate a trade, and possibly bring back even more assets.

As it stands right now and as many have pointed out, it’s impossible for them to all be long term fits. But the Spurs have the best collection of assets to facilitate trades in the league, particularly when recently traded and signed players can be moved … all of their draft picks, some expiring contracts, other guys on very reasonable contracts, etc.

Find a way to help him get to GS (where the fit is good!) or to purgatory in Minnesota. And get some assets out of it.

[Mr. Body]

I've asked before, but are there any reliable sources saying the Spurs are even in discussion with Philly about Simmons? I mean other than the odd investigative call. Have there been any serious discussions that we know of? Thanks.

No.

Only Klutch-affiliated ESPN types dedicated to generating a market for their client.