Toronto Pick Watch (Top 6 protected)

[onechance87]

The fact that you have a chance at a lottery pick for Jakob in a walk year is amazing in itself! I’ll make that trade 100 out of 100

yea thats if they dont tank this year or next few years....They are trash this year and a good chance will
be trash the next few years as well

[Mr. Body]

The fact that you have a chance at a lottery pick for Jakob in a walk year is amazing in itself! I’ll make that trade 100 out of 100

Yeah my brother

[Mugen]

The fact that you have a chance at a lottery pick for Jakob in a walk year is amazing in itself! I’ll make that trade 100 out of 100

Oh I bet you would, sunshine :lol

[Ocotillo]

If 2025 comes along and we have multiple picks in the first round it shouldn't be too hard to trade them for other first rounders later in the decade.

[baseline bum]

yea thats if they dont tank this year or next few years....They are trash this year and a good chance will
be trash the next few years as well

They'd have to outright tank for three seasons given it's top 6 protected each time. Even if they finish with the 5th worst record this year as well as the next two it still only gives them a 1 in 4 chance of never having to give up their first.

[onechance87]

ffs memphis and portland aint trying to tank...Looks like they still trying to try to make a run
at the playoffs...Giving a open spot to raptors at for top 5

[exstatic]

ffs memphis and portland aint trying to tank...Looks like they still trying to try to make a run
at the playoffs...Giving a open spot to raptors at for top 5

Portland is. They were just pissed yesterday about being robbed Tuesdaynight, so they took it out on Houston. I think Atlanta is, too, since this is the last pick under their control until 2028.

[Seventyniner]

ffs memphis and portland aint trying to tank...Looks like they still trying to try to make a run
at the playoffs...Giving a open spot to raptors at for top 5

At least the Hornets lost. The Raptors shouldn't have any realistic chance of a bottom 4 record. With the 5th worst record the Raptors would still have about a 36% chance of being jumped at least twice (and not jumping into the top 4 themselves) which would send their pick to the Spurs anyway.

[Mr. Body]

Memphis is playing out of their heads. They have a good coach and getting incredible production from an undrafted player and GG Jackson who was wildly problematic during the draft. I don't expect them to keep showing out as things settle down and teams pay attention to them.

Portland is playing well because Brogdan is looking for a new home and Grant is doing well. Once Sharpe comes back and Scoot goes back to the starters, they will start losing again.

Charlotte... dunno, they have too much talent to be completely shitty. Maybe playing to keep their bad coach's job?

[rascal]

Memphis is playing out of their heads. They have a good coach and getting incredible production from an undrafted player and GG Jackson who was wildly problematic during the draft. I don't expect them to keep showing out as things settle down and teams pay attention to them.

Portland is playing well because Brogdan is looking for a new home and Grant is doing well. Once Sharpe comes back and Scoot goes back to the starters, they will start losing again.

Charlotte... dunno, they have too much talent to be completely shitty. Maybe playing to keep their bad coach's job?

You hate Sharpe and Scoot. You've spread BS on these two players in this forum.

You are wrong. They are playing better after Ayton came back from injury.

[RC_Drunkford]

I told people before the draft GG Jackson is gonna be good. Not surprised tbh. Kid has huge potential.

[Mr. Body]

You hate Sharpe and Scoot. You've spread BS on these two players in this forum.

You are wrong. They are playing better after Ayton came back from injury.

Neither Scoot nor Sharpe know how to win games. They're developing players. You're just reading your own spankbank fantasies into things.

[Mr. Body]

I told people before the draft GG Jackson is gonna be good. Not surprised tbh. Kid has huge potential.

The kid who attacked his coach on Instagram and pulled out a vape during an NBA workout, etc? He has talent but could be a massive headcase. Fortunately he's in Memphis where they have no headcases at all.

[RC_Drunkford]

The kid who attacked his coach on Instagram and pulled out a vape during an NBA workout, etc? He has talent but could be a massive headcase. Fortunately he's in Memphis where they have no headcases at all.

I don't follow what rookies do off the court. I only researched his basketball skills when he was in high school and went to college. He has the right intagibles to be a great player. Still better than pulling out your meat wherever you're at like our franchise cornerstone Josh Primo.

[Mr. Body]

I don't follow what rookies do off the court. I only researched his basketball skills when he was in high school and went to college. He has the right intagibles to be a great player. Still better than pulling out your meat wherever you're at like our franchise cornerstone Josh Primo.

When a player sexually harrasses a woman, the Spurs get rid of him. We'll see what Jackson might do. He cost himself a shit ton of money by being extremely immature to the point his players hated him. We know the Grizzlies tolerate, or encourage, a ton of bad behavior.

Here's a hint, by the way: just looking at stats isn't going to do it for prospects.

[RC_Drunkford]

When a player sexually harrasses a woman, the Spurs get rid of him. We'll see what Jackson might do. He cost himself a shit ton of money by being extremely immature to the point his players hated him. We know the Grizzlies tolerate, or encourage, a ton of bad behavior.

Here's a hint, by the way: just looking at stats isn't going to do it for prospects.

I didn't just look at stats. I said I did research. There's a difference between the 2

[Mr. Body]

I didn't just look at stats. I said I did research. There's a difference between the 2

But didn't know what a problematic person he was? No player with a negative college BPM has ever made it in the NBA. Maybe he'll become a miracle. More likely he's going to show his form soon enough.

[Atl Spur]

Trying to hard RC…..

[RC_Drunkford]

But didn't know what a problematic person he was? No player with a negative college BPM has ever made it in the NBA. Maybe he'll become a miracle. More likely he's going to show his form soon enough.

I knew he commited to UNC and then changed his mind and went to play for South Carolina. That was a weird move, but I don't investigate player's personalities too much. Nobody knew Primo had an issue with pulling out before he came into the NBA either.


Trying to hard RC…..

says the guy who has multiple "Brian is getting it righ" threads. Tell us the future Ms Cleo :lmao

[adonis827]

Toronto is bottom 6 at the moment. I think they would be able to keep the pick but still would love Spurs to get it.

[DPG21920]

MEM doing this with all those guys out is both impressive as hell and tilting to the highest degree. Unbelievable how they are winning like this. Makes Spurs record look even more silly.

[RC_Drunkford]

MEM doing this with all those guys out is both impressive as hell and tilting to the highest degree. Unbelievable how they are winning like this. Makes Spurs record look even more silly.

their 3rd stringers are significantly better than our starters. We found that out when we lost to them by 20.

[ambchang]

MEM doing this with all those guys out is both impressive as hell and tilting to the highest degree. Unbelievable how they are winning like this. Makes Spurs record look even more silly.

Memphis has always had a decent team without Morant, I thought their record without him was at least decent.

[baseline bum]

Memphis has always had a decent team without Morant, I thought their record without him was at least decent.

It was when Tyus Jones was there. Not too great since.

[FutureMan]

A lot of people are split on this thread on if the Raptors are tanking or not. I think this comes down to two perspectives:

1. Trade players to tank
2. Build a roster around Barnes

I’m of the opinion that everything they have done is for option 2. By building around Barnes the Raptors can figure out if Barnes is their player going forward or he isn’t. If Barnes truly is a top guy to build around then the roster, as constructed, should at least be a play in team. I don’t think they are tanking. I think they are just letting the team run its natural course.

[onechance87]

raptors going into the 5th worst team not even trying to tank yet...We are never gonna get the pick,They are a bad
team and will be a bad team for the next few years.

[rascal]

raptors going into the 5th worst team not even trying to tank yet...We are never gonna get the pick,They are a bad
team and will be a bad team for the next few years.

If Portland wins tonight Toronto is down to a two game lead. Toronto is looking to unload more players and rebuild.

And so many in here said no way Portland can catch Toronto.

[Mr. Body]

Yeah I'd definitely say Toronto won't win more than Memphis at this point. Tanking or not, the Raptors have been the worst team in the league for the last three weeks, even worse than the Spurs and Pistons. Blazers are also playing well and could end up better.

The Hawks could turn on the tank to get a better pick and Brooklyn is right there, but they don't own their own pick so would lose only because they suck.

I'd say it's getting unlikely that the pick conveys at this point.

[rascal]

Toronto maintains a 3 game lead over Portland.

[DPG21920]

Memphis has always had a decent team without Morant, I thought their record without him was at least decent.

No Bane. No Morant. No Smart. I mean….

[Chinook]

One of the things people don't talk about much is that the Spurs' chances of getting the Raptors pick if they're in the sixth lottery slot correlate inversely with the value of the Spurs natural pick. Like the odds of the pick conveying are the odds that someone in the 7-15 group jumps into the top four. The chances that someone 5-15 jumps into the top four are (basically) the chances of them jumping in front of the Spurs and pushing that pick down. If Toronto gets the seventh lottery slot, that correlation goes away. If they get up to that fifth slot, that negative correlation gets even stronger. I would take the Spurs getting 5 and 7 if it came to that. But for the folks who want Risacher, Topic or any other top-four prospect, it's a little worrying. I'll let the stats posters game out the odds, but I definitely want someone to pass up the Raptors to push them back down to seven.

[buttsR4rebounding]

raptors going into the 5th worst team not even trying to tank yet...We are never gonna get the pick,They are a bad
team and will be a bad team for the next few years.

Part of the “we’re never going to get Wemby” crowd from last year. It’s a lot more likely it conveys as a non-lottery pick than not conveying at all.

[BacktoBasics]

One of the things people don't talk about much is that the Spurs' chances of getting the Raptors pick if they're in the sixth lottery slot correlate inversely with the value of the Spurs natural pick. Like the odds of the pick conveying are the odds that someone in the 7-15 group jumps into the top four. The chances that someone 5-15 jumps into the top four are (basically) the chances of them jumping in front of the Spurs and pushing that pick down. If Toronto gets the seventh lottery slot, that correlation goes away. If they get up to that fifth slot, that negative correlation gets even stronger. I would take the Spurs getting 5 and 7 if it came to that. But for the folks who want Risacher, Topic or any other top-four prospect, it's a little worrying. I'll let the stats posters game out the odds, but I definitely want someone to pass up the Raptors to push them back down to seven.

This is where real analysis begins. There is a hard and clear line between not making trades and this logic. Yet people want to shit on Wright or pop but these are boots on the ground considerations. Especially since there’s no guarantee that a trade moves the needle with something like a Dejonte trade. You almost have to leverage into the offseason. See where it falls and angle off of that.

[Mr. Body]

Raptors have been without Poeltl, who may return next week and is practicing. His return should help them be at least a bit more competitive. They were without Quickley tonight as well.

[onechance87]

Raptors have been without Poeltl, who may return next week and is practicing. His return should help them be at least a bit more competitive. They were without Quickley tonight as well.

If poeltl that much of a difference maker,Wright for sure got screwed.

[K...]

If poeltl that much of a difference maker,Wright for sure got screwed.

settle down, we traded a rental and he got paid on the new deal, plus we tanked for victor and la di da. Same with murray, and danny green being traded to the raptors. The spurs routinely trade guys they don't want to pay

[Mr. Body]

If poeltl that much of a difference maker,Wright for sure got screwed.

???

The fuck you talking about.

[couchman]

Poeltl's an above average starting center and their starting lineup is significantly worse without him.
If they really aren't taking then he will be put right back in the lineup a soon as he's ready. We'll see I guess.

[TD 21]

Poeltl's an above average starting center and their starting lineup is significantly worse without him.
If they really aren't taking then he will be put right back in the lineup a soon as he's ready. We'll see I guess.

Clearly better: Porzingis, Allen, Mobley, Jokic, Sengun, Turner, Davis, Jackson Jr., Adebayo, Lopez, Gobert, Towns, Holmgren, Embiid, Sabonis, Wembanyama.

Comparable or on track to be: Claxton, Williams, Lively, Duren, Zubac, Robinson, Carter Jr., Ayton, Kessler.

[Mr. Body]

Clearly better: Porzingis, Allen, Mobley, Jokic, Sengun, Turner, Davis, Jackson Jr., Adebayo, Lopez, Gobert, Towns, Holmgren, Embiid, Sabonis, Wembanyama.

Comparable or on track to be: Claxton, Williams, Lively, Duren, Zubac, Robinson, Carter Jr., Ayton, Kessler.

Who gives a fuck what his rank is when the point is they play much, much better with him in there.

[Bruno]

A quick summary of the situation around the pick:

Odds of Spurs getting that pick depending of Raptors record:
Worst record: 0%
2nd worst record: 0%
3rd: 7%
4th: 19%
5th: 36%
6th: 54%
7th: 68%
8th: 74%
9th: 80%

Worst current records in the NBA:
1st: Detroit 5-40
2nd: Washington 8-37
3rd: SA 10-36
4th: Charlotte 10-34
5th: Portland 13-32
6th: Toronto 16-29
7th: Memphis 18-27
8th: Atlanta 18-27
9th: Brooklyn 18-27

Right now, Spurs have a 54% odds of getting Raptors pick. Making end of seasons projections seems hazardous with the trade deadline being in only 10 days.

[TD 21]

Who gives a fuck what his rank is when the point is they play much, much better with him in there.

No, the point is he's not an above average starting C.

[LeBowen]

A quick summary of the situation around the pick:

Odds of Spurs getting that pick depending of Raptors record:
Worst record: 0%
2nd worst record: 0%
3rd: 7%
4th: 19%
5th: 36%
6th: 54%
7th: 68%
8th: 74%
9th: 80%

Worst current records in the NBA:
1st: Detroit 5-40
2nd: Washington 8-37
3rd: SA 10-36
4th: Charlotte 10-34
5th: Portland 13-32
6th: Toronto 16-29
7th: Memphis 18-27
8th: Atlanta 18-27
9th: Brooklyn 18-27

Right now, Spurs have a 54% odds of getting Raptors pick. Making end of seasons projections seems hazardous with the trade deadline being in only 10 days.

Good stuff.
Tbh, it's pointless to worry about their record when it's going to come down to the lottery.
Bottom 5 are already set in stone, then it's about them finishing anywhere between 6th and 10th.
We'll see how the deadline goes, but after last year, we can't complain about anything lottery related for the next couple of decades.

[Atl Spur]

Good stuff.
Tbh, it's pointless to worry about their record when it's going to come down to the lottery.
Bottom 5 are already set in stone, then it's about them finishing anywhere between 6th and 10th.
We'll see how the deadline goes, but after last year, we can't complain about anything lottery related for the next couple of decades.

^ this man gets it

[Mr. Body]

No, the point is he's not an above average starting C.

Who gives a fuck what his rank is when the point is they play much, much better with him in there.

[Mr. Body]

I don't entirely agree that the worst 5 are set in stone. I do think Charlotte, Detroit, and Washington are so bad and have no incentive to win. There is a chance Portland or San Antonio win more games than Toronto.

Toronto is sitting RJ Barrett against Atlanta, one of their rivals for a team to start tanking. Poeltl and Quickley are also out. They may be fully tanking now.

[offset formation]

One of the things people don't talk about much is that the Spurs' chances of getting the Raptors pick if they're in the sixth lottery slot correlate inversely with the value of the Spurs natural pick. Like the odds of the pick conveying are the odds that someone in the 7-15 group jumps into the top four. The chances that someone 5-15 jumps into the top four are (basically) the chances of them jumping in front of the Spurs and pushing that pick down. If Toronto gets the seventh lottery slot, that correlation goes away. If they get up to that fifth slot, that negative correlation gets even stronger. I would take the Spurs getting 5 and 7 if it came to that. But for the folks who want Risacher, Topic or any other top-four prospect, it's a little worrying. I'll let the stats posters game out the odds, but I definitely want someone to pass up the Raptors to push them back down to seven.

Wouldn't be that difficult to trade a 5 and 7 and something else for the 4 spot were we that in love with someone as a long term fit next to Wemby. That said I doubt there's anyone at 3 or 4 that we can't find with the 5th pick given the talent crop being lower this year.

[onechance87]

Good stuff.
Tbh, it's pointless to worry about their record when it's going to come down to the lottery.
Bottom 5 are already set in stone, then it's about them finishing anywhere between 6th and 10th.
We'll see how the deadline goes, but after last year, we can't complain about anything lottery related for the next couple of decades.

bottom 5 are not set in stone at all...Have u been keeping up with the nba

[LeBowen]

bottom 5 are not set in stone at all...Have u been keeping up with the nba

Actually, I have.
Pistons and Wizards are hopeless, tanking on purpose.
Hornets just traded Rozier and will probably beat us to top3 odds.
Blazers are on our level, more or less. I'd say we're better now that everyone seems to be in a good role and Collins/Branham are getting DNPs.
Still, they've got 3 more wins and have had a lot of injuries.

Raptors did trade away their two best players, but they got solid players in return and aren't purposefully tanking.
I can't see us catching them with 6 games behind.
Memphis are playing well against all odds, can't see them dropping to bottom 5, despite all their injuries.

TL;DR
If us or the Blazers don't get to ~25 wins, I can't see Raptors getting top5 odds.

Or did you mean that the order of top5 isn't set in stone? I was referring to top5 worst teams already being known.

[onechance87]

Actually, I have.
Pistons and Wizards are hopeless, tanking on purpose.
Hornets just traded Rozier and will probably beat us to top3 odds.
Blazers are on our level, more or less. I'd say we're better now that everyone seems to be in a good role and Collins/Branham are getting DNPs.
Still, they've got 3 more wins and have had a lot of injuries.

Raptors did trade away their two best players, but they got solid players in return and aren't purposefully tanking.
I can't see us catching them with 6 games behind.
Memphis are playing well against all odds, can't see them dropping to bottom 5, despite all their injuries.

TL;DR
If us or the Blazers don't get to ~25 wins, I can't see Raptors getting top5 odds.

Or did you mean that the order of top5 isn't set in stone? I was referring to top5 worst teams already being known.

raptors are already sitting solid players already...Iq,barret,and poeltl are all out today.Poeltl was suppose to be back already...A very winniable game for
them to want to try to win against a rival.They are only 3 games behind portland.They might not catch up to wizards and pistons and
charlote...But think they can and will pass memphis,san antonio and portland to get in top 4

[onechance87]

double post

[TD 21]

Who gives a fuck what his rank is when the point is they play much, much better with him in there.

I wasn't quoting you, you miserable geezer.

[rascal]

raptors are already sitting solid players already...Iq,barret,and poeltl are all out today.Poeltl was suppose to be back already...A very winniable game for
them to want to try to win against a rival.They are only 3 games behind portland.They might not catch up to wizards and pistons and
charlote...But think they can and will pass memphis,san antonio and portland to get in top 4

No doubt if Toronto starts sitting players they can go on a long losing streak and there are still many games left in the season.

They can get into the bottom 3 with only Detroit and Washington with worse records.

It's looking more and more like that Toronto pick is not coming this year.

[The Truth #6]

If we keep sitting Branham and Collins we will continue to improve, which is great on one hand but this is our last chance to get our own high draft pick, in my opinion. Interesting decisions ahead.

Question for the Pop Haters: do you want tanking or winning?

[Mr. Body]

Toronto very nearly beat Atlanta. Pretty crazy down the stretch. Murray was a game time scratch.

[onechance87]

Toronto very nearly beat Atlanta. Pretty crazy down the stretch. Murray was a game time scratch.

damnit

[Cabrito]

Toronto is 1-9 without Poetl.

[Ariel]

Toronto very nearly beat Atlanta. Pretty crazy down the stretch. Murray was a game time scratch.
It seems Toronto is heading towards a fire sale, while Atlanta, Brooklyn, Memphis, Golden State want to win. We might surpass Toronto at this pace. There's a growing chance the pick may not convey this year.

[rascal]

It seems Toronto is heading towards a fire sale, while Atlanta, Brooklyn, Memphis, Golden State want to win. We might surpass Toronto at this pace. There's a growing chance the pick may not convey this year.

Finally people are starting to get on board what a couple of us have seen weeks ago.

[onechance87]

It seems Toronto is heading towards a fire sale, while Atlanta, Brooklyn, Memphis, Golden State want to win. We might surpass Toronto at this pace. There's a growing chance the pick may not convey this year.

give us jakob back for their pick back:devil

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Raptors will get a top 5 pick, damn

[Spursfanfromafar]

It seems Toronto is heading towards a fire sale, while Atlanta, Brooklyn, Memphis, Golden State want to win. We might surpass Toronto at this pace. There's a growing chance the pick may not convey this year.

Which isn't too bad considering the riches in the draft next year, I think.

[Mr. Body]

I mean, nothing's really happened yet. The players clearly wanted the win but lost on a putback dunk. It would have given them an extra W. As it is, I don't really know if Portland will catch them and SA is six games back. Depends on whether the Spurs actively try to win.

Either way it's not a huge loss if we try again next year. As a note, Toronto has two first round picks other than this one, Indiana and OKC at 20 and 28 and also the 31st in the second.

[Ariel]

give us jakob back for their pick back:devil
Nah, the pick has 2 more years to convey, I'd still take the pick over Jakob, there's no place in the team for a 20M a year center who doesn't space the floor.

Which isn't too bad considering the riches in the draft next year, I think.
Maybe, but on the other hand, if they do that this year, they might as well do that again next year. I don't think they're the kind of team who'd go for a 3 year tank, but if I were them I would do a 2 year tank (this one + the next) then pivot signing a few FAs like Houston did. That may really hurt the pick.

[Ariel]

I mean, nothing's really happened yet. The players clearly wanted the win but lost on a putback dunk. It would have given them an extra W. As it is, I don't really know if Portland will catch them and SA is six games back. Depends on whether the Spurs actively try to win.
If they move Bruce Brown & Poeltl, they're going to be worse than this Spurs team the rest of the way. The question is whether the 6 game difference will be enough to hold them off, but if the Spurs speed it up it may very well be the case.

[CorrectCrusader]

Raptors should get much better when Jakob Poeltl comes back from injury. Their whole team is way too small without him there.

[Mugen]

If they're tanking then this year then you better believe they're tanking for the much better '25 draft.

The Spurs SHOULD be better than them next year as well.

If that pick doesn't convey this draft then it'll never convey tbh, WrightSuckers :lol

[exstatic]

Which isn't too bad considering the riches in the draft next year, I think.

People say that 25 is a rich draft, but they don’t know. What is known is that there are a couple of players that are good at the top 1 or 2. Since the pick conveys only at 7 or lower, we can’t get those players with Toronto’s pick,so there’s no advantage to waiting for it to convey. There’s also the train wreck scenario where we have 5 FRPs in 2025.

[LeBowen]

There’s also the train wreck scenario where we have 5 FRPs in 2025.

How many picks do we even want?
In the upcoming 4 drafts, Spurs have 7 (8 if Toronto conveys) FRPs.

We currently have 5 useful players with value on the roster: Wemby, Devin, Keldon, Jeremy and Tre.
Obiously, other than Wemby, those 4 could get traded, but if they do, Spurs would surely be getting some useful players back. Or picks.

Then there are Wesley, Champagnie, Barlow and Bassey who could become regular bench pieces.
Even if they don't, Spurs have a minimum of rotation players for the future and 7 picks.
Meaning that 5 spots are open. And you obviously don't want to fill your entire roster with rookies.

Then there's cap space for free agents. Maybe not stars, but good role players.

TL;DR point being that we kind of need to stop obsessing with draft picks, we've got plenty.
This year we'll get another top5 pick, next year we have three guaranteed FRPs, even without Raptors. Meaning that it should be easy to trade into top5 if we really want to.
I'd say that the next year should be the last draft for top10 picks and from summer 2025 we need to focus on actually getting players that are already good because we don't want to spend Wemby's entire rookie contract in the lottery.

And there's the boatload of second rounders, which can easily be used to trade up into late first round.

[onechance87]

fuck u raptors

[Kevin]

Its almost like the Spurs need to consolidate their draft assets for a proven star.

[onechance87]

People say that 25 is a rich draft, but they don’t know. What is known is that there are a couple of players that are good at the top 1 or 2. Since the pick conveys only at 7 or lower, we can’t get those players with Toronto’s pick,so there’s no advantage to waiting for it to convey. There’s also the train wreck scenario where we have 5 FRPs in 2025.

i doubt will we get chicago,Charlote or raptors pick next year .They will suck next year and tank to try to get flagg.

[The Truth #6]

At 6, TOR has, what a 43% of falling to 7, is that right? Too soon to say. But they seem like they will end up 4-6 if they really tank. And if they end up at 5, there's about a 37% chance to fall to 7 or below I think.

The ultimate question is: will Pop push the tank or allow the team to continue to do what's working? Branham's minutes and play could be crucial, as ridiculous as that sounds. As a fan, I will convince myself that if we win that's good, if we lose, it's good for the tank, basically.

[Kevin]

i doubt will we get chicago,Charlote or raptors pick next year .They will suck next year and tank to try to get flagg.

Yeah Chicago tanks next season with DMR set to leave not sure about the Hornets or Raptors but both could easily end up tanking too.

[TimmehC]

There's not enough talent left on that team to bring them back up to the point where that pick conveys. Unless a couple teams pass them on lotto night. Spurs just have to hope it conveys in one of the next 2 seasons.

[BackHome]

If we go through this year and next draft getting Zero legit starters next to Wemby you can kiss away any chance of keeping Wemby or ever getting close to a Championship. And Yes only way to massively and cheaply upgrade our talent is through the draft and free agency can get us a good bench players

[JPB]

If we go through this year and next draft getting Zero legit starters next to Wemby you can kiss away any chance of keeping Wemby or ever getting close to a Championship. And Yes only way to massively and cheaply upgrade our talent is through the draft and free agency can get us a good bench players

I believe more than ever Luka is leaving Dallas this summer... who can offer better than the spurs, specially with another lottery pick next draft? If Luka says he only wants to come here, he's here... What better team than SA for Luka with a budding superstar in Wemby still leaving him enough room to spend the next few years as top dog before Wemby becomes da man with Doncic as a facilitator for a few more titles?

[onechance87]

If we go through this year and next draft getting Zero legit starters next to Wemby you can kiss away any chance of keeping Wemby or ever getting close to a Championship. And Yes only way to massively and cheaply upgrade our talent is through the draft and free agency can get us a good bench players

we may have to fire wright...Wemby is showing he is the real deal.We are gonna have to accelerate this rebuild and get the
ball moving to contend.Giving collins that contract ext and wasting cap space for somebody who doesnt fit next to wemby already a mistake
on wright part.Lets see if wright and the spurs scouts draft the best player to partner up with wemby this summer to improve
this team future.

[exstatic]

How many picks do we even want?
In the upcoming 4 drafts, Spurs have 7 (8 if Toronto conveys) FRPs.

We currently have 5 useful players with value on the roster: Wemby, Devin, Keldon, Jeremy and Tre.
Obiously, other than Wemby, those 4 could get traded, but if they do, Spurs would surely be getting some useful players back. Or picks.

Then there are Wesley, Champagnie, Barlow and Bassey who could become regular bench pieces.
Even if they don't, Spurs have a minimum of rotation players for the future and 7 picks.
Meaning that 5 spots are open. And you obviously don't want to fill your entire roster with rookies.

Then there's cap space for free agents. Maybe not stars, but good role players.

TL;DR point being that we kind of need to stop obsessing with draft picks, we've got plenty.
This year we'll get another top5 pick, next year we have three guaranteed FRPs, even without Raptors. Meaning that it should be easy to trade into top5 if we really want to.
I'd say that the next year should be the last draft for top10 picks and from summer 2025 we need to focus on actually getting players that are already good because we don't want to spend Wemby's entire rookie contract in the lottery.

And there's the boatload of second rounders, which can easily be used to trade up into late first round.

My point was YOU DON’T WANT 5 FRPs IN THE SAME DRAFT. It’s possible for the CHA,CHI, and TOR picks to all convey in 2025, along with the guaranteed ATL, and our own pick. Better if we get TOR pick this year.

[TheChillFactor]

I love how people hold Brian Wright individually accountable for the roster moves. All of these decsisions are made collaboratively with Pop, RC, etc.

You really think BW just does whatever he wants and Pop just deals with it?

You can tell who has never worked in an organization with any kind of authority.

This is not the same as when your shift manager yells at you for burning the fries at your Whatburger gig.

[scott]

I believe more than ever Luka is leaving Dallas this summer... who can offer better than the spurs, specially with another lottery pick next draft? If Luka says he only wants to come here, he's here... What better team than SA for Luka with a budding superstar in Wemby still leaving him enough room to spend the next few years as top dog before Wemby becomes da man with Doncic as a facilitator for a few more titles?

What reason do you have to believe Luka is leaving Dallas this summer? I don't follow the Mavs so I truly wouldn't know. Looks like they are treading in Play-In waters again, but Luka is still shining bright.

[CGD]

Luka is a tremendous talent but he needs to grow the F up. I’ve gotten to the point of loathing with him given his antics with the refs, and say nothing of the boring heliocentric stuffs

[Ariel]

If we go through this year and next draft getting Zero legit starters next to Wemby you can kiss away any chance of keeping Wemby or ever getting close to a Championship. And Yes only way to massively and cheaply upgrade our talent is through the draft and free agency can get us a good bench players
The '24 free agency class is worthless, only Quickley (RFA) could be a viable target UIMO. But in '25 there could be several worthwhile targetrs: Donovan Mitchell (PO), Lauri Markkanen (UFA), Derrick White (UFA). IMO landing 1 of those 3 should be the goal.

I believe more than ever Luka is leaving Dallas this summer... who can offer better than the spurs, specially with another lottery pick next draft? If Luka says he only wants to come here, he's here... What better team than SA for Luka with a budding superstar in Wemby still leaving him enough room to spend the next few years as top dog before Wemby becomes da man with Doncic as a facilitator for a few more titles?
I don't think Luka is leaving just yet, but Donovan Mitchell might be the next best thing, he's got a player option in '25 and it seems he'll become a free agent.

[Ariel]

My point was YOU DON’T WANT 5 FRPs IN THE SAME DRAFT. It’s possible for the CHA,CHI, and TOR picks to all convey in 2025, along with the guaranteed ATL, and our own pick. Better if we get TOR pick this year.
With Charlotte going for a full rebuild (they're trying to move Miles Bridges and Hayward), it seems very unlikely that pick will ever convey as a first. Most likely scenario in '25 is 2/3 picks with 4 being the absolute most, assuming you can roster 2 rookies (fair assumption since by then the class of '22 should have sorted itself out) I don't think it'll be a problem to find a taker for one or two even at the draft. Or use them in a trade. It's not a scenario anyone should lose sleep over.

[onechance87]

The '24 free agency class is worthless, only Quickley (RFA) could be a viable target UIMO. But in '25 there could be several worthwhile targetrs: Donovan Mitchell (PO), Lauri Markkanen (UFA), Derrick White (UFA). IMO landing 1 of those 3 should be the goal.

I don't think Luka is leaving just yeat, but Donovan Mitchell might be the next best thing, he's got a player option in '25 and it seems he'll become a free agent.


sure it might worthless in drafting a star,But good roleplayers are still much needed on this team.Miami drafted
jaime jaquez late for them this year...And hes a damn good role player already for them

[LeBowen]

The '24 free agency class is worthless, only Quickley (RFA) could be a viable target UIMO. But in '25 there could be several worthwhile targetrs: Donovan Mitchell (PO), Lauri Markkanen (UFA), Derrick White (UFA). IMO landing 1 of those 3 should be the goal.

Just looking at 2024 UFA list, I'd go for Buddy Hield if we could get him for a contract similar to what Doug has.
He's 31, but he doesn't have that much mileage on him and he never got injured.
Would be a perfect 6th man for a couple of seasons, imo.

Something in the range of 50/3 would be fine, especially if we manage to move Collins.

Other than that, I don't see anyone that would be a good fit and worth the money.

[Ariel]

sure it might worthless in drafting a star,But good roleplayers are still much needed on this team.
Besides, you don't really need to draft stars, if you have a bunch of good players, that's the basis for a good trade package. For instance, you could package together Keldon Johnson, Tre Jones, Sochan, Zach Collins (as expiring the other season) + a few picks for the next disgruntled star which will inevitably ask out. You just have to be ready and loaded with assets when that happens.

[JPB]

What reason do you have to believe Luka is leaving Dallas this summer? I don't follow the Mavs so I truly wouldn't know. Looks like they are treading in Play-In waters again, but Luka is still shining bright.

They're barely more than a 0.500 team after the Kyrie trade and I've seen enough to know they're not gonna suddenly make leaps and bounds with that pairing. And They have little to no leeway to upgrade in the near future expect for trading... Kyrie. Bright spot is Lively (this year's rookie) seems like a very solod pick.

Luka has a player option for next season, how many more years of his prime will he be OK dropping 73 and bananas for a first or second round exit, if Dallas actually make the POs that Luka accepted to drop last year only to be in the same situation this year? Lively is no MJ, and Luka is an all time great stuck on the treadmill with no real perspective at sniffing a ring in the near future (who put their house on the Mavs this year? Not even Dallas fans). I dont believe he's gonna wait 3 or 4 years Dallas develop whatever other solid rookies they could draft....

but ofc, I could be wrong.

[RC_Drunkford]

Pop will probably tell Wright to sign DeRozan and think we'll be a contender with him chucking up midrange shots :lol I could totally see that happening, although I don't think he likes to play here

[MultiTroll]

I believe more than ever Luka is leaving Dallas this summer... who can offer better than the spurs, specially with another lottery pick next draft? If Luka says he only wants to come here, he's here... What better team than SA for Luka with a budding superstar in Wemby still leaving him enough room to spend the next few years as top dog before Wemby becomes da man with Doncic as a facilitator for a few more titles?
What are the Spurs going to offer other then a few lottery picks?

Doncic is signed thru 25-26

Dallas would want a ransom i would assume.

Now if Doncic pulls modern day NBA diva pouting and forces a trade in public, i don't want him.

[MultiTroll]

Luka has a player option for next season,
Player option is not until before the 2026-27 season.
Dallas Mavericks Salaries | HoopsHype (https://hoopshype.com/salaries/dallas_mavericks/)

[JPB]

What are the Spurs going to offer other then a few lottery picks?

Doncic is signed thru 25-26

Dallas would want a ransom i would assume.

Now if Doncic pulls modern day NBA diva pouting and forces a trade in public, i don't want him.

I can't blame superstars for deciding where they want to play in their prime, as long as they're direct and honest with it (not pulling a Nephew)... It's their career and teams defend their interest, players theirs. And players have understood they ultimately have the power, you don't want a disgruntled supermaxed star on your roster, wherever you're the one trading or trading for. If Luka wants to leave, that would be for a team he feels he has a shot at ringing (or several) for the rest of his prime.

This season is a bit deceptive for different reasons (I mean Sochan at PG!?) but spurs actually have several, nice young pieces + a boatload of picks, which is exactly what Dallas would want, also probably trading Kyrie for a full rebuild. Now I just checked and believed Luka had a player option earlier than 26-27, which changes a bit the power he could have, but not that much. Again, he's the one on the floor and Mavs wouldn't want an unhappy maxed out Luka for the next 2 years.

Anyway, we can be sure that there will be speculations if Mavs don't make the POs for the secnd year in a row or are an early exit. They really have little flexibility for upgrade and their team as such is really not contending. They went all in on Flat Earther and it's probably gonna fail.

[scott]

If Luka wants out this summer, then I sure hope we throw an amazing offer out there. I'm not interested in waiting several years for the possibility that Luka might want out though. We can carry on with our own business, and if Luka wants out in 2026 we can explore it then.

[Ariel]

Player option is not until before the 2026-27 season.
Dallas Mavericks Salaries | HoopsHype (https://hoopshype.com/salaries/dallas_mavericks/)
Basically that means they have him for 2 more seasons beyond this one. That's not a lot, and should make Dallas listen to reasonable offers if he wants out a year from now. Other teams with enough assets that could be willing to go all out for him are Utah and New York. But the Spurs could definitely put together a competitive package.

[TD 21]

I can't see the Mavericks ever being willing to trade Doncic to the Spurs (and probably in conference period) and an ego as massive as his will probably not only prefer the usual glamor markets, but a team where he can be the clear best player too.

[onechance87]

I can't see the Mavericks ever being willing to trade Doncic to the Spurs (and probably in conference period) and an ego as massive as his will probably not only prefer the usual glamor markets, but a team where he can be the clear best player too.

yup...superstars are rarely traded to their biggest rivals

[MultiTroll]

Basically that means they have him for 2 more seasons beyond this one. That's not a lot, and should make Dallas listen to reasonable offers if he wants out a year from now. Other teams with enough assets that could be willing to go all out for him are Utah and New York. But the Spurs could definitely put together a competitive package.
I'd like to see a list of superstars who were traded 2 1/2 years before their contract was up. We agree that is hardly ever.
2 years.
For that matter a year and a half.

[MultiTroll]

I can't blame superstars for deciding where they want to play in their prime, as long as they're direct and honest with it (not pulling a Nephew)... .
It would and will be interesting to follow the ones who forced their way out.
Kyrie disaster twice.
Anthony Davis got the one ref aided Covid title.
Durbetta with the ABC marketing titles in his purse, one Championship and then the Zaza *Championship. But those were after he became FA. Still the most beta move in sports history but lets keep on subject of forcing. Since the Bay Area he forced his way out of Brooklyn and has blown balls as far as Championship pursuit.

James Harden what a freakin joke.
Kawhi Leonard can always say he the Toronto title.
Ben Simmons massive phaggotry.
Bradley Bean with the Suns meh whatever. Guess they could still do aight.
Westchuck LOL. Altho good to see him finally accpeting his role.

[Mr. Body]

Dallas did pretty well last offseason even if Grant Williams hasn't been playing great for them. Lively was a masterstroke. The Irving trade looks to be working so far and they didn't give up too much during the season.

Now what? They don't have a draft pick this year. They owe a first in 2029. If I read this right, as soon as this draft is over, they can then use 2025 and 2027 to trade for a bigger piece. Their cap isn't horrible but it isn't exactly flexible.

[r0drig0lac]

Pop will probably tell Wright to sign DeRozan and think we'll be a contender with him chucking up midrange shots :lol I could totally see that happening, although I don't think he likes to play here

agree, and if it was for a low price and only 2 years it wouldn't be bad, he continues to play at a reasonable level and would no longer have the responsibility of being "the man"...could help Wemby carry this team offensively, although I also believe he would not want to return.

[spurraider21]

Dallas did pretty well last offseason even if Grant Williams hasn't been playing great for them. Lively was a masterstroke. The Irving trade looks to be working so far and they didn't give up too much during the season.

Now what? They don't have a draft pick this year. They owe a first in 2029. If I read this right, as soon as this draft is over, they can then use 2025 and 2027 to trade for a bigger piece. Their cap isn't horrible but it isn't exactly flexible.
i gave them a lot of credit for their offseason. i still dont know that Kyrie is an intuitive fit as the 2nd max player across Doncic, but they did everything in their power to bolster their defense in the offseason.

- pulled off the S&T for grant williams, he started the season on fire and has cooled down, but have to appreciate what they were going for
- they did also sign thybulle to an offer sheet, which was matched... but again, an effort to add defense
- not only did they draft lively, but they did so by trading down and unloading bertans' salary in the process
- by dealing away bertans, they opened up the space needed to absorb richaun holmes, which apparently was all it took for them to acquire an additional FRP, which they used on Prosper, who was also seen as a good defensive prospect

whether or not every move pans out, i applaud their focus on improving the defense around Doncic/Irving.

[exstatic]

Just looking at 2024 UFA list, I'd go for Buddy Hield if we could get him for a contract similar to what Doug has.
He's 31, but he doesn't have that much mileage on him and he never got injured.
Would be a perfect 6th man for a couple of seasons, imo.

Something in the range of 50/3 would be fine, especially if we manage to move Collins.

Other than that, I don't see anyone that would be a good fit and worth the money.

If PATFO is convinced that therapy worked for him, Miles Bridges would be nice. Defense, 20/7 and 40% from 3. He’d be an absolute plug in at a forward spot.

[spurraider21]

If PATFO is convinced that therapy worked for him, Miles Bridges would be nice. Defense, 20/7 and 40% from 3. He’d be an absolute plug in at a forward spot.
he's hitting 36% of his 3's

but yes he's a good player. no shot a developing team is going to risk bringing somebody like him on board though. most likely he rehabs himself with a contender for another prove it deal and then cashes in later.

[scott]

What's the last player with well-publicized character issues the Spurs signed or drafted?

[Ariel]

If PATFO is convinced that therapy worked for him, Miles Bridges would be nice. Defense, 20/7 and 40% from 3. He’d be an absolute plug in at a forward spot.
https://i.ibb.co/3sCmXm4/289457878-1425031124678136-3068971018166186967-n.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/HTkGHML/FUnzos8-WYAA0-Gd-N.jpg

"One thing we don't gamble on, is character" - Brian Wright, 2022
After the whole Primo fiasco, I can't see them doing that, even if just for PR

[Ariel]

What's the last player with well-publicized character issues the Spurs signed or drafted?
Dejounte was well known for his troubled past (gang affiliated)

[baseline bum]

If PATFO is convinced that therapy worked for him, Miles Bridges would be nice. Defense, 20/7 and 40% from 3. He’d be an absolute plug in at a forward spot.

He choked his wife, broke her nose, broke her rib, fuck that. He should be in prison for that kind of assault.

[baseline bum]

Dejounte was well known for his troubled past (gang affiliated)

How troubled we talking? If it's just flashing signs because his friends were in it like Derrick Rose I wouldn't give a shit. If it was Dejounte having pride in his neighborhood I ain't gonna fault him on it. Unless he was out there putting in work seems like a nothingburger.

[Ariel]

How troubled we talking? If it's just flashing signs because his friends were in it like Derrick Rose I wouldn't give a shit. If it was Dejounte having pride in his neighborhood I ain't gonna fault him on it. Unless he was out there putting in work seems like a nothingburger.
His whole family was gang affiliated and he was in an out of juvie. That's why he dropped like a stone during draft night and the Spurs were able to draft him at the end of the first round.
https://www.ksat.com/sports/2020/06/26/spurs-dejounte-murray-opens-up-about-tough-upbringing-being-labeled-a-gang-member-during-nba-draft/

[baseline bum]

His whole family was gang affiliated and he was in an out of juvie. That's why he dropped like a stone during draft night and the Spurs were able to draft him at the end of the first round.
https://www.ksat.com/sports/2020/06/26/spurs-dejounte-murray-opens-up-about-tough-upbringing-being-labeled-a-gang-member-during-nba-draft/

Being in juvie as a 14 year old wouldn't scare me off, especially seeing he had a mentor in Jamal Crawford. Now if he had been in county for violent offenses at 17-18 different story.

[BackHome]

Bridges also has to go to court for violating his restraint order sometime this month I believe...

[wildbill2u]

https://i.ibb.co/3sCmXm4/289457878-1425031124678136-3068971018166186967-n.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/HTkGHML/FUnzos8-WYAA0-Gd-N.jpg

"One thing we don't gamble on, is character" - Brian Wright, 2022
After the whole Primo fiasco, I can't see them doing that, even if just for PR

You better put some ice on that. (famous quote)

[onechance87]

portland giving philly a beatdown.They dont want us to get raptors pick

[RC_Drunkford]

If PATFO is convinced that therapy worked for him, Miles Bridges would be nice. Defense, 20/7 and 40% from 3. He’d be an absolute plug in at a forward spot.

let's not trade for the Instagram poster, let's get the woman beater instead :lol

[exstatic]

let's not trade for the Instagram poster, let's get the woman beater instead :lol

I don’t want Trae. No problem bringing back DJ at the right price, meaning they don’t get to reverse the trade and get all of their picks back. Their ask was two FRPs, and I’d even sweeten it by giving up their 27 as one of them, but not the 25 under any circumstances. Perhaps you need a remedial reading class.

[The Truth #6]

What's the last player with well-publicized character issues the Spurs signed or drafted?

There was Gary Neal back in the day but he went to Europe and "got over himself".

[Amuseddaysleeper]

I don’t want Trae. No problem bringing back DJ at the right price, meaning they don’t get to reverse the trade and get all of their picks back. Their ask was two FRPs, and I’d even sweeten it by giving up their 27 as one of them, but not the 25 under any circumstances. Perhaps you need a remedial reading class.

Oh I’d take Trae over DJ all day everyday, want no part of a DJ return.

[Mr. Body]

Toronto gets the W over Chicago. Some of the worst clutch play on either side of the ball you'd ever see.

[spurraider21]

Raptors were missing Quickley and Barrett in addition to Yak

[Mr. Body]

Toronto's players clearly aren't tanking. They want to win. They nearly had the last game other than a last-second tip-in.

Gradey Dick's stint in the G League had a good effect. He only shot once but had an impact plus four assists.

[onechance87]

Toronto gets the W over Chicago. Some of the worst clutch play on either side of the ball you'd ever see.

yup...Raptors trying to tank sitting most there top players.Luckly they still won.

[rascal]

Toronto's players clearly aren't tanking. They want to win. They nearly had the last game other than a last-second tip-in.

Gradey Dick's stint in the G League had a good effect. He only shot once but had an impact plus four assists.

Of course the players are not tanking. It's the front office that will do the tanking.

[onechance87]

Toronto's players clearly aren't tanking. They want to win. They nearly had the last game other than a last-second tip-in.

Gradey Dick's stint in the G League had a good effect. He only shot once but had an impact plus four assists.

yea...jakob did say he wanted no part of tanking.Hope he returns next game with iq.But if they keep sitting
them we will know what raptors are trying to do.

[Mr. Body]

Of course the players are not tanking. It's the front office that will do the tanking.

Again you don't even know the basic definition of what tanking is.

[exstatic]

Again you don't even know the basic definition of what tanking is.

Kind of like you don’t understand the concept of best brother in college.

[JPB]

Not sure how people can say the Kyrie trade was a success. It was an all in move to create a clear contender. One year later they're sitting at the 7th place in a VERY WEAK West, with the 14th best DIFF in the NBA, at +0.34 (9th in the West, which could be their real place). And we all know point DIFF is a good indicator of your real value at the end of the season, meaning they could not even be a top 10 team in the NBA... They're not winning anything with the Luka-Kyrie combo as main guys. It's a big fail, and Dallas has very little leeway to upgrade.

[rankingtear]

What's the last player with well-publicized character issues the Spurs signed or drafted?

Metu. Morris. DJ. Luka. Neal.

[ginobilized]

Toronto beat the Bulls with Thaddeus Young as their starting center.
What a choke fest.
It will be a very competitive race for the lottery by March.

[RC_Drunkford]

Not sure how people can say the Kyrie trade was a success. It was an all in move to create a clear contender. One year later they're sitting at the 7th place in a VERY WEAK West, with the 14th best DIFF in the NBA, at +0.34 (9th in the West, which could be their real place). And we all know point DIFF is a good indicator of your real value at the end of the season, meaning they could not even be a top 10 team in the NBA... They're not winning anything with the Luka-Kyrie combo as main guys. It's a big fail, and Dallas has very little leeway to upgrade.

they fucked it up by letting Brunson go. At this point Brunson is better than Kyrie, impact wise.

[onechance87]

portland u muthafckers

[Harry Callahan]

The pick swap in 2030 with Dallas may actually turn into something. Six years is a LONG time (and seven drafts away).

Kyrie Irving will be on a beach by then and Doncic will have achy knees while weighing 300 lbs. I can dream, right?

Regardless of how that turns out, its a nice future asset if things work out.

Just consider where the Mavies were six years ago - and where the Spurs were six years ago. We'll see.

[spurraider21]

The pick swap in 2030 with Dallas may actually turn into something. Six years is a LONG time (and seven drafts away).

Kyrie Irving will be on a beach by then and Doncic will have achy knees while weighing 300 lbs. I can dream, right?

Regardless of how that turns out, its a nice future asset if things work out.

Just consider where the Mavies were six years ago - and where the Spurs were six years ago. We'll see.
the thing about swaps is that they may end up being illusory assets. but in this case it does look good for SAS. 2030 draft would be on the heels of what, wemby's age 26 season? luka should be just fine at 30, but depends on how dallas fills up the roster as kyrie is gone by then

dallas also owes brooklyn its 2029 pick for the kyrie trade so they wont get immediate rookie help leading up to that season. they also will owe their FRP to the knicks either this or next year. probably will convey this year unless they full tank again, but i dont see that happening

[CGD]

The pick swap in 2030 with Dallas may actually turn into something. Six years is a LONG time (and seven drafts away).

Kyrie Irving will be on a beach by then and Doncic will have achy knees while weighing 300 lbs. I can dream, right?

Regardless of how that turns out, its a nice future asset if things work out.

Just consider where the Mavies were six years ago - and where the Spurs were six years ago. We'll see.

Luka looks close to 300 lbs now tbh

[Ditty]

Memphis is probably going to tank the hardest soon even without resting their players unless DJ is traded in ATL. Barnes, RJ and Poeltl back with their pretty easy SOS is going to get them around 7th or 8th pick spot.

[onechance87]

Memphis is probably going to tank the hardest soon even without resting their players unless DJ is traded in ATL. Barnes, RJ and Poeltl back with their pretty easy SOS is going to get them around 7th or 8th pick spot.

we can only hope.

[exstatic]

we can only hope.

They were really running on fumes and inertia after Ja went down, but they’ve dropped three in a row now. They’re coming back to Earth, and if ATL trades DJ for picks, they’ll drop, too.

[JPB]

Spurs, Detroit, Charlotte and Washington are pretty much a lock for the bottom 6 at the end of the season... that leaves us with two remaining spots, between Memphis, portland, Toronto and and we gotta see what happens in Atlanta but the raps are sure gonna tank hard to get one of those even if they have a few competitive players who will play to showcase themselves.

[Ariel]

Spurs, Detroit, Charlotte and Washington are pretty much a lock for the bottom 6 at the end of the season... that leaves us with two remaining spots, between Memphis, portland, Toronto and and we gotta see what happens in Atlanta but the raps are sure gonna tank hard to get one of those even if they have a few competitive players who will play to showcase themselves.
Toronto is at 17 wins. I don't think they'll catch Detroit (6), Washington (9), Spurs (10) and Charlotte (10), even if they tank. But they may catch Portland (15 wins), and then there's a bunch of teams trying to win: Memphis (18), Brooklyn (19), Atlanta (20), Golden State (20). IMO there's no way Toronto finishes in the bottom 4, but may end up 5th (36.1 % chance of the pick conveying) if they tear it down and Portland doesn't or more likely 6th (54.2%), but 7 (68.1%) or lower isn't totally out of the question. At this point the pick conveying or not is about a toss up, and I'm equally torn in whether I want it to convey this year or not :lol

[TXstbobcat]

Poeltl and Quickley back tonight for the Raptors against the Rockets. Barrett still out.

[Mr. Body]

Toronto is at 17 wins. I don't think they'll catch Detroit (6), Washington (9), Spurs (10) and Charlotte (10), even if they tank. But they may catch Portland (15 wins), and then there's a bunch of teams trying to win: Memphis (18), Brooklyn (19), Atlanta (20), Golden State (20). IMO there's no way Toronto finishes in the bottom 4, but may end up 5th (36.1 % chance of the pick conveying) if they tear it down and Portland doesn't or more likely 6th (54.2%), but 7 (68.1%) or lower isn't totally out of the question. At this point the pick conveying or not is about a toss up, and I'm equally torn in whether I want it to convey this year or not :lol

Memphis is the only one among those that seems obvious to tank, although sneakily Golden State owes their pick to Portland unless it's 1-4. I don't think we'll see them tank nor are they close enough. Brooklyn doesn't own their pick whatsoever.

Honestly, with Atlanta, if reports that a guy like Tyus Jones is available for a couple of SRPs, I would guess there are bargains out there to help marginal teams for not a ton.

[rascal]

Portland is now within 2 games of Toronto

[DPG21920]

TOR sucks so bad I cannot believe it. Mem winning so much with half their team gone while TOR chokes is so depressing

[onechance87]

TOR sucks so bad I cannot believe it. Mem winning so much with half their team gone while TOR chokes is so depressing

im telling you bro,They will suck next year and we wont get the pick next year as well.They will
be bad for awhile.

[Mr. Body]

Toronto nearly beat Thunder last night, Thunder needed 2OTs. Raptors had nothing left tonight. Don't hang yourselves.

[offset formation]

Not sure how people can say the Kyrie trade was a success. It was an all in move to create a clear contender. One year later they're sitting at the 7th place in a VERY WEAK West, with the 14th best DIFF in the NBA, at +0.34 (9th in the West, which could be their real place). And we all know point DIFF is a good indicator of your real value at the end of the season, meaning they could not even be a top 10 team in the NBA... They're not winning anything with the Luka-Kyrie combo as main guys. It's a big fail, and Dallas has very little leeway to upgrade.

Cuban is a horrible owner and has zero clue on hiring. He only won one because of Dirk's greatness and Donnie Nelson. They should have had at least 2 chips if not 3 under Dirk's tenure.

And they've only gotten worse since they let go of Nelson. Kidd is a horrible Xs and Os coach and was apparently hated at his previous stop.

Dallas will lose Luka because of Cuban's incompetence.

[rascal]

They are beginning their tank.

They gave Grady Dick 30 minutes last night and he had a great shooting night but gave him 24 minutes against the Rockets on a
bad shooting night a couple of games ago so looks like they are playing him more with little desire on the outcome because they are not going for wins.

[Mr. Body]

They are beginning their tank.

They gave Grady Dick 30 minutes last night and he had a great shooting night but gave him 24 minutes against the Rockets on a
bad shooting night a couple of games ago so looks like they are playing him more with little desire on the outcome because they are not going for wins.

Like, literally the night before they took OKC, one of the best teams in the league, to two OTs. That's not a tanking team. They just had nothing last night. And developing a rookie is not tanking in itself.

[Pauleta14]

TOR won't be a tanking team next season imo, too much talent

[onechance87]

TOR won't be a tanking team next season imo, too much talent

to much talent after they traded two allstar players.They will suck next year as well.

[exstatic]

to much talent after they traded two allstar players.They will suck next year as well.

OG Anunoby was never an all star. He’s never scored 20 points per game for a season, even in this gogo offensive era. In years gone by, he might have been considered a better offense, worse defense Bowen. He’s a role player.

[Mr. Body]

They get Charlotte tonight which is a key chance at a W. Grizzlies have lost a bunch straight.

[Knoxxx]

It would be crazy if we got exactly the #7 pick in this deal.

[Dejounte]

Spurs Fans Make All The Excuses In The World For Teams They Say Have “So Much Talent” … Oops I Meant Wemby Only Fans, Not Spurs Fans

[exstatic]

They get Charlotte tonight which is a key chance at a W. Grizzlies have lost a bunch straight.

Either outcome is good for us. Either TOR drops to 7, or we get some breathing room from CHA, who have one less loss than us.

[couchman]

The Raptors and Spurs are playing chicken with this pick.
It either stays with Toronto or we get one of the highest possible picks from it.
It would be wild to have it convey at 7.

[Knoxxx]

Did we decide that the DAL 2030 1st is actually just swap rights? Seems like at the time, everyone thought we were getting an unprotected pick.

[exstatic]

Did we decide that the DAL 2030 1st is actually just swap rights? Seems like at the time, everyone thought we were getting an unprotected pick.

I didn’t see anyone say that it was a pick. It was pretty clear that it was unprotected, but a swap.

[Knoxxx]

Either outcome is good for us. Either TOR drops to 7, or we get some breathing room from CHA, who have one less loss than us.

What are we needing breathing room about re Charlotte?

[exstatic]

What are we needing breathing room about re Charlotte?

They’re 1/2 game behind us, same wins, one less loss.

[Knoxxx]

I didn’t see anyone say that it was a pick. It was pretty clear that it was unprotected, but a swap.

I never recalled hearing it was a pick swap at the time, was why I asked. Then I was reading about Spurs future picks only recently, and that was the first saw it referenced as a swap.

[Pauleta14]

OG Anunoby was never an all star. He’s never scored 20 points per game for a season, even in this gogo offensive era. In years gone by, he might have been considered a better offense, worse defense Bowen. He’s a role player.

They’ve been losing very close games recently against top opponents with a new roster and some missing important players.
it’s not absurd to think that with another summer they’ll be better next year.

It’s just an impression as of now, things go fast in NBA so we’ll see in a month where they’re at …

[Mr. Body]

Toronto tips off against a Hornets team now without LaMello, Mark WIlliams, Gordon Hayward, and a traded Rozier. For those wanting a that second pick, this would go a long way to helping them. Charlotte's been horrendous lately.

[spurraider21]

Toronto tips off against a Hornets team now without LaMello, Mark WIlliams, Gordon Hayward, and a traded Rozier. For those wanting a that second pick, this would go a long way to helping them. Charlotte's been horrendous lately.
brandon miller and miles bridges have been running hot. everybody else... yeesh

[Mr. Body]

And... Charlotte comes out scorching hot and up 17-5, like they're all auditioning to get traded out of there asap.

[Mr. Body]

I don't know why people thought it a huge tragedy we couldn't get Imanuel Quickley.

[spurraider21]

I don't know why people thought it a huge tragedy we couldn't get Imanuel Quickley.
one of the few realistic means to upgrade at PG anytime soon. 2024 FA class is uninspiring. for guys under 28yo for instance, you are looking at Markelle Fultz, Monte Morris, Tyus Jones. then it gets really thin

draft isnt reliable since you dont know where we pick or who is there, plus rookie PGs very rarely hit the ground running

[Mr. Body]

Quickley is really more an undersized SG. He can play off-ball because Barnes is the facilitator. Quickley is a decent sparkplug and would be good off the bench, but he's not that exciting.

[RC_Drunkford]

there's really no hope if the Raptors can't even beat the Charlotte Hornets 3rd stringers

[spurraider21]

yak delivering a W with some huge plays late

[Mr. Body]

Charlotte outshidded Toronto. Poeltl makes a difference... slightly. Memphis has lost six straight and their mojo may be gone. Maybe.

They're now tied with 18 wins. Portland is just behind at 15. Brooklyn is hovering above with 20.

[heyheymymy]

It would be crazy if we got exactly the #7 pick in this deal.

It's such a thin line to get TOR to plummet but stay above the top 6. Almost would rather Raps won more for a better guaranteed yet lower value pick like #12 instead of poorer odds that a higher value #7 conveys. 36% is dismal but there is hope that the chips will fall just right if TOR can get tank froze out of the top 6 by other collapsing teams which the landscape is ripe for. In that case push TOR down as hard as you can cause they will wash up right at 7, 8, 9 depending how it all finishes.

tank a thon rolls where TOR doesn't convey start looking real threadbare lol. Spurs fans are gonna meltdown if this tank season yields Reed Sheppard and nothing else though you'd hope other moves would be made in light of that.

[Mr. Body]

It's such a thin line to get TOR to plummet but stay above the top 6. Almost would rather Raps won more for a better guaranteed yet lower value pick like #12 instead of poorer odds that a higher value #7 conveys. 36% is dismal but there is hope that the chips will fall just right if TOR can get tank froze out of the top 6 by other collapsing teams which the landscape is ripe for. In that case push TOR down as hard as you can cause they will wash up right at 7, 8, 9 depending how it all finishes.

tank a thon rolls where TOR doesn't convey start looking real threadbare lol. Spurs fans are gonna meltdown if this tank season yields Reed Sheppard and nothing else though you'd hope other moves would be made in light of that.

If Toronto finishes above Memphis in the 7 slot, the pick is about 2/3 chance to go to the Spurs. If somehow they get above Brooklyn, the pick is about 3/4 chance to go. If they get above Atlanta, the pick is about 4/5 chance to convey.

Right now, the most likely spot the Spurs get the pick is number 8, at 32.9%. If the Spurs do get a second pick, I don't doubt there's a second player who could be useful. Even if there aren't obvious stars in this draft, there are pieces. With pick 8 or 9 you could get a Dalton Knecht, who would be very old as a rookie but is a very dynamic scorer to does a lot of everything and wouldn't be the 'raw materials' Pop was talking about. He'd be more ready to play.

[onechance87]

If Toronto finishes above Memphis in the 7 slot, the pick is about 2/3 chance to go to the Spurs. If somehow they get above Brooklyn, the pick is about 3/4 chance to go. If they get above Atlanta, the pick is about 4/5 chance to convey.

Right now, the most likely spot the Spurs get the pick is number 8, at 32.9%. If the Spurs do get a second pick, I don't doubt there's a second player who could be useful. Even if there aren't obvious stars in this draft, there are pieces. With pick 8 or 9 you could get a Dalton Knecht, who would be very old as a rookie but is a very dynamic scorer to does a lot of everything and wouldn't be the 'raw materials' Pop was talking about. He'd be more ready to play.

alot of these players can easily replace these players on this team.Thats how bad we are.We need raptors pick.This team
needs talent asap.

[exstatic]

It's such a thin line to get TOR to plummet but stay above the top 6. Almost would rather Raps won more for a better guaranteed yet lower value pick like #12 instead of poorer odds that a higher value #7 conveys. 36% is dismal but there is hope that the chips will fall just right if TOR can get tank froze out of the top 6 by other collapsing teams which the landscape is ripe for. In that case push TOR down as hard as you can cause they will wash up right at 7, 8, 9 depending how it all finishes.

tank a thon rolls where TOR doesn't convey start looking real threadbare lol. Spurs fans are gonna meltdown if this tank season yields Reed Sheppard and nothing else though you'd hope other moves would be made in light of that.

I’ll feel that way in year 3 if it hasn’t conveyed yet, but for now, pulling pretty hard for Memphis to lose and keep Toronto at 7.

[heyheymymy]

I’ll feel that way in year 3 if it hasn’t conveyed yet, but for now, pulling pretty hard for Memphis to lose and keep Toronto at 7.

Agreed. As much as we're white knuckling it playing with fire, it looks like TOR has a good chance of being frozen out of the top 6 worst records and this pick could land right on the #7 miraculously so lose away, Raps.

Especially as you say the Spurs get 3 swings at this so let's run it risky now in hopes we hit as close to maximum pay dirt since we have a few free tries to go.

[exstatic]

I’m actually OK with 7,8,9. Pick 7 of course, is the home run, both in terms of draft location, and relieving pressure from possibly have five FRPs in 2025.

[mo7888]

I’m actually OK with 7,8,9. Pick 7 of course, is the home run, both in terms of draft location, and relieving pressure from possibly have five FRPs in 2025.
The Utah Jazz are finalizing a trade to send C Kelly Olynyk and guard Ochai Agbaji to the Toronto Raptors for Kira Lewis, Otto Porter and a 2024 first-round pick, sources tell ESPN.

What do you think?

[Ariel]

The Utah Jazz are finalizing a trade to send C Kelly Olynyk and guard Ochai Agbaji to the Toronto Raptors for Kira Lewis, Otto Porter and a 2024 first-round pick, sources tell ESPN.

What do you think?
Well, Toronto isn't tanking then. Good news.

[Ariel]

I’m actually OK with 7,8,9. Pick 7 of course, is the home run, both in terms of draft location, and relieving pressure from possibly have five FRPs in 2025.
It never was such a big problem to begin with, I doubt Toronto gets out of the lottery by next year and the Spurs should receive plenty of interest for that pick even if they don't use it, which could very well be in a trade up, etc.

[exstatic]

The Utah Jazz are finalizing a trade to send C Kelly Olynyk and guard Ochai Agbaji to the Toronto Raptors for Kira Lewis, Otto Porter and a 2024 first-round pick, sources tell ESPN.

What do you think?

Good news for the Spurs. The pick can’t be Toronto’s own, since it’s locked for the next three years, or until it conveys. Must be #18, which they hold via IND. I guess this puts to rest the trope that no one wants 2024 FRPs.

[mo7888]

Good news for the Spurs. The pick can’t be Toronto’s own, since it’s locked for the next three years, or until it conveys. Must be #18, which they hold via IND. I guess this puts to rest the trope that no one wants 2024 FRPs.

Agreed... I also think, as it relates to us, that our Toronto pick is more valuable than we thought..

[rascal]

Good news for the Spurs. The pick can’t be Toronto’s own, since it’s locked for the next three years, or until it conveys. Must be #18, which they hold via IND. I guess this puts to rest the trope that no one wants 2024 FRPs.

According to Wojnarowski, the first-round pick will be the least favorable between Oklahoma City, the L.A. Clippers, Houston and Utah in 2024.

[rascal]

The Raptors are trading Dennis Schroder to the Nets for Spencer Dinwiddie.

[CGD]

The Raptors are trading Dennis Schroder to the Nets for Spencer Dinwiddie.

Latteral move. Isn't Dennis a know locker room cancer?

Generally, i dont get Toronto's strategy. At least we'll get their pick.

[spurraider21]

i have absolutely no idea what the raptors are doing

[Atl Spur]

This would be the best year to get it being next year they should be much better.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

i have absolutely no idea what the raptors are doing

Trading for trading's sake.

[Mr. Body]

The Dinwiddie move clears Toronto salary next year.

[mo7888]

I wonder if they plan on using their improved cap to resign GTJ or if they move him?

[CGD]

Trading for trading's sake.

Exactly

[Mr. Body]

Like, literally people have been explaining to you what they're doing.

[spurraider21]

Like, literally people have been explaining to you what they're doing.
and what is that?

are they... trying to contend?

trading a FRP for poeltl last deadline
trading a FRP for olynyk at this year's deadline


are they trying to just retooi?

trading OG for Quickley + Barrett and no trade comp


or are they just trying to rebuild?

trade siakam for a bunch of picks

[Mr. Body]

and what is that?

are they... trying to contend?

trading a FRP for poeltl last deadline
trading a FRP for olynyk at this year's deadline


are they trying to just retooi?

trading OG for Quickley + Barrett and no trade comp


or are they just trying to rebuild?

trade siakam for a bunch of picks

I dunno man, like maybe read through threads instead of just commenting on them? It's very very clear what they did this year.

[spurraider21]

I dunno man, like maybe read through threads instead of just commenting on them? It's very very clear what they did this year.
i mean what they did is very clear insofar as their moves have been documented and i can clearly see what moves they made

my question is what direction they're trying to take. you referring me to "read through threads" instead of just giving a response is telling

[vy65]

1755681671217643746

[Mugen]

I have to sift through the deadline rubble but I feel like their moves are good for the pick conveying this year?

Bottom 5 are locked and I think the Memphis schedule is harder down the stretch. Wouldn't be surprised if Atlanta starts bottoming out as well the last 25 games.

Man, I really hope that f'n pick conveys this year.

[Mr. Body]

I have to sift through the deadline rubble but I feel like their moves are good for the pick conveying this year?

Bottom 5 are locked and I think the Memphis schedule is harder down the stretch. Wouldn't be surprised if Atlanta starts bottoming out as well the last 25 games.

Man, I really hope that f'n pick conveys this year.

I think Schroeder hurts. He's a good player. Portland kept Bogdan (don't know why) and is a threat to win games.

I feel like Memphis has lost its burst and will be poor. Not sure about Atlanta. Keep an eye on Brooklyn, too.

But the Raptors added depth. Ochai is a good outside shooter and Gradey is coming around

By no means is Toronto assured but this probably improves them a bit and makes them better going forward.

[spurraider21]

I have to sift through the deadline rubble but I feel like their moves are good for the pick conveying this year?

Bottom 5 are locked and I think the Memphis schedule is harder down the stretch. Wouldn't be surprised if Atlanta starts bottoming out as well the last 25 games.

Man, I really hope that f'n pick conveys this year.
you dont want the maximum chaos scenario of the spurs having 5 first rounders next year? :lol

[spurraider21]

im not sure the raptors got better but at least they aren't tanking. think they might thread the needle and deliver us a top 10 pick

wtf was that olynyk trade? :lol... i mean its a first rounder that will probably be pick 27 or later, but why are they so thirsty for olynyk?

[rascal]

I have to sift through the deadline rubble but I feel like their moves are good for the pick conveying this year?

Bottom 5 are locked and I think the Memphis schedule is harder down the stretch. Wouldn't be surprised if Atlanta starts bottoming out as well the last 25 games.

Man, I really hope that f'n pick conveys this year.

Portland isn't a lock to be worse than Toronto.

[Mugen]

Portland isn't a lock to be worse than Toronto.

You're right, I meant bottom 4. But i think Portland is gonna be tanking hard to end this year. They've also got 3 more Ls and I think they're definitely worse than Toronto from a talent and coaching perspective.

[Mugen]

The Raps keeping Brown is shocking to me tbh. I feel like his value was at an all time high around this deadline and they easily could have gotten an OK first for him.

Good for us but I really find what the Raptors confusing af as spurraider21 alluded to tbh.

[DPG21920]

The Raps keeping Brown is shocking to me tbh. I feel like his value was at an all time high around this deadline and they easily could have gotten an OK first for him.

Good for us but I really find what the Raptors confusing af as spurraider21 alluded to tbh.

Raptors likely value Browns contract for making a bigger trade in off season Im guessing.

[duncan2150]

Portland isn't a lock to be worse than Toronto.

Right : spurs, hornets, wizards and pistons are lock for the top four.

Then you have that injured memphis team, portland and toronto : toronto with the 8th easiest schedule remaining and if they play all their players they will be good imo.

And Portland has the 6th hardest schedule remaining.

[Mr. Body]

im not sure the raptors got better but at least they aren't tanking. think they might thread the needle and deliver us a top 10 pick

wtf was that olynyk trade? :lol... i mean its a first rounder that will probably be pick 27 or later, but why are they so thirsty for olynyk?

Didn't they get Ochai, too?

[Mr. Body]

The Raps keeping Brown is shocking to me tbh. I feel like his value was at an all time high around this deadline and they easily could have gotten an OK first for him.

Good for us but I really find what the Raptors confusing af as spurraider21 alluded to tbh.

Brown has a team option next year and many teams open up picks after this draft. My guess is there just wasn't what they wanted for him right now.

My uncertain thing with them is trading Schroeder, but they got off salary and I think an asset for him.

[TD 21]

:lmao At a should be re-building team throwing a lottery ticket in the garbage for a relatively low ceiling, near 24 year old and a 32 year old upcoming UFA.

[Mr. Body]

:lmao At a should be re-building team throwing a lottery ticket in the garbage for a relatively low ceiling, near 24 year old and a 32 year old upcoming UFA.

Are you talking about this trade? The pick they gave up is in the late 20s this year. Right now it's #28.

[TD 21]

Are you talking about this trade? The pick they gave up is in the late 20s this year. Right now it's #28.

Yeah, aka a lottery ticket.

[Mr. Body]

Yeah, aka a lottery ticket.

I have no idea what you're talking about.

[spurraider21]

I have no idea what you're talking about.
you're so unnecessarily grumpy. he clearly was referring to the late 1 as a lottery ticket

[TD 21]

I have no idea what you're talking about.

:lmao They could have taken a stab at lucking into the next Siakam (Parker, Butler, etc.) in that range or packaged some combination of their 3 picks to move up if someone with a lottery projection falls, like virtually every year.

But anytime you can eliminate that possibility to chase being the 20ish best team in the league, you have to do it.

[Mr. Body]

:lmao They could have taken a stab at lucking into the next Siakam (Parker, Butler, etc.) in that range or packaged some combination of their 3 picks to move up if someone with a lottery projection falls, like virtually every year.

But anytime you can eliminate that possibility to chase being the 20ish best team in the league, you have to do it.

They already have a first round pick from Indiana that is like ten picks better. Clearly they value two guys rotation guys over a rookie in a bad draft picked at #28.

[TD 21]

They already have a first round pick from Indiana that is like ten picks better. Clearly they value two guys rotation guys over a rookie in a bad draft picked at #28.

:lmao I'm well aware of this, my question is why? It doesn't make any sense and if the Bulls did this, the national media would be killing them.

[Mr. Body]

:lmao I'm well aware of this, my question is why? It doesn't make any sense and if the Bulls did this, the national media would be killing them.

How does it not make sense. I'm not sure why this is difficult to grasp.

[TD 21]

How does it not make sense. I'm not sure why this is difficult to grasp.

:lmao

[rascal]

A lottery ticket of a pick doesn't mean a pick in the lottery here.

[Mr. Body]

Are you all completely brain damaged.

[scott]

Are you all completely brain damaged.

Shut the fuck up, piss guzzler. If you can't follow along, then simply don't engage. You treat every difference of opinion as some kind of crime against humanity. Do you have some kind of social disorder? Are you incapable of carrying a conversation like a normal human being?

You'd actually be a decent contributor to some dialogues if you could just stop with the histrionics. Crawl out of your mom's basement for a minute and touch some grass, it might do your mood some good.

[K...]

Are you all completely brain damaged.

i know right? there is a lottery and then there is lottery like odds. also lol at the notion of getting a late first round star, those days are over, scouting of players is pretty even based on foreign league scouting. it was dumb post on two levels

[Ariel]

:lmao At a should be re-building team throwing a lottery ticket in the garbage for a relatively low ceiling, near 24 year old and a 32 year old upcoming UFA.
You can argue the direction the franchise took (I would have blown it years ago), but the value of this particular trade is very solid. Just Olynyk by himself was probably worth 2/3 2nd rounders by himself, and Agbaji isn't a high end prospect but if they can get him to be a decent role player that's already more than most late first rounders.

[Mr. Body]

Grizzlies put up a fight but go down to Chicago at home. Jenkins has his g-leaguers, rookies, and Jaren Jackson Jr playing well.

The other game tonight with Toronto pick implications is Detroit-Portland. Looks like Brogdon isn't playing. We'd want Portland to lose.

[TD 21]

You can argue the direction the franchise took (I would have blown it years ago), but the value of this particular trade is very solid. Just Olynyk by himself was probably worth 2/3 2nd rounders by himself, and Agbaji isn't a high end prospect but if they can get him to be a decent role player that's already more than most late first rounders.

:lmao It's not worth the opportunity cost (however low) of doing what I said for a team going nowhere fast.

[SpursBills]

I wonder if Toronto's move for Olynyk means that they averse to tanking this year and would prefer for the pick to convey in 2024. If their pick doesn't convey and the spurs see someone that they like as an additional pick, there might be a deal to made where the raptors would lift the protection on their 2024 pick in exchange for a small asset.

[Chinook]

:lmao It's not worth the opportunity cost (however low) of doing what I said for a team going nowhere fast.

The Raptors have 17 and 31 in addition to having a chance at a top-10 pick. They have plenty of fliers and the cap flexibility to get more during the draft if they want to. The prioritizing of Olynyk suggests Toronto values this season, both potentially as a playoff year if everything works out and as an opportunity to see how Barnes looks as a higher option, how Quickley and Barrett fit in with good spacing and how the younger guys on the team handle higher rotation spots. They've needed competent center play for years now, and Olynyk can help them there in a similar way that an MLE-level vet PG would've had utility on the Spurs even in this lost season. Then as far as fliers go, Agbaji just seems like a guy they like. He doesn't have to have superstar upside to be a decent pick. He might be able to fit next to Barnes and Quickley, or maybe he shows himself to be a valuable role-player and gets traded for picks later on.

I don't think your PoV is that hard to get, but I also think you're being a bit blinded by your Raptors hate if you can't understand the logic here. I get disagreeing with it, but I'd've been okay with the Spurs dumping one of their middle-draft picks for guys they actually wanted during the prior deadline rather than keeping the picks into the draft and then selling them off for cash because they realize they actually don't want four or more rookies on their roster.

[TD 21]

The Raptors have 17 and 31 in addition to having a chance at a top-10 pick. They have plenty of fliers and the cap flexibility to get more during the draft if they want to. The prioritizing of Olynyk suggests Toronto values this season, both potentially as a playoff year if everything works out and as an opportunity to see how Barnes looks as a higher option, how Quickley and Barrett fit in with good spacing and how the younger guys on the team handle higher rotation spots. They've needed competent center play for years now, and Olynyk can help them there in a similar way that an MLE-level vet PG would've had utility on the Spurs even in this lost season. Then as far as fliers go, Agbaji just seems like a guy they like. He doesn't have to have superstar upside to be a decent pick. He might be able to fit next to Barnes and Quickley, or maybe he shows himself to be a valuable role-player and gets traded for picks later on.

I don't think your PoV is that hard to get, but I also think you're being a bit blinded by your Raptors hate if you can't understand the logic here. I get disagreeing with it, but I'd've been okay with the Spurs dumping one of their middle-draft picks for guys they actually wanted during the prior deadline rather than keeping the picks into the draft and then selling them off for cash because they realize they actually don't want four or more rookies on their roster.

You can never have too many fliers, especially in the position they've put themselves in.

I understand the logic, it just doesn't make sense for them.

The Spurs just drafted one of the GOAT prospects, have the lowest amount of shot creation in the league and quality/quantity of draft capital.

[Chinook]

You can never have too many fliers, especially in the position they've put themselves in.

I mean, of course you can. You only have so many roster spots. You mentioned the things the Raptors could do with the pick, but we've seen the reality of having that many picks is usually the team selling the picks for pennies on the dollar during the draft.


I understand the logic, it just doesn't make sense for them.

You're free to think that, but I think the Raptors could make the argument for their side without it seeming particularly crazy. Either way, it's inconsequential. Even if there is an impact player taken with that pick, Toronto would've have ample opportunity to select or trade up to acquire such a player. I wouldn't want the difference between the OKC first and 31 to stop Wright from making a trade if he thought it would help the team.


The Spurs just drafted one of the GOAT prospects, have the lowest amount of shot creation in the league and quality/quantity of draft capital.

Toronto has a lot of capital, especially this year. They needed a second center more than the Spurs need another PG. Regardless, I would've felt in a similar way in the previous years too, especially if I had known that the alternative was the Spurs kicking the can down the road or just selling the pick off to give the Holts some spending money.

In fact, the Spurs have three or four picks in this draft right now. I think there's a good chance the Spurs get less out of that pick than a vet rotation player and a decent prospect. Like I'm sort of sad they didn't try for Royce O'Neal, even if it were going to be difficult to re-sign him. Just having a quality defender could've done a lot to stabilize the rotation for the rest of the year, and having Royce's Bird rights would've made it much more possible to pivot toward a win-now stance after making a big trade for Young, Mitchell or whomever else. That was worth 33 and a couple of throw-away seconds.

[TD 21]

I mean, of course you can. You only have so many roster spots. You mentioned the things the Raptors could do with the pick, but we've seen the reality of having that many picks is usually the team selling the picks for pennies on the dollar during the draft.



You're free to think that, but I think the Raptors could make the argument for their side without it seeming particularly crazy. Either way, it's inconsequential. Even if there is an impact player taken with that pick, Toronto would've have ample opportunity to select or trade up to acquire such a player. I wouldn't want the difference between the OKC first and 31 to stop Wright from making a trade if he thought it would help the team.



Toronto has a lot of capital, especially this year. They needed a second center more than the Spurs need another PG. Regardless, I would've felt in a similar way in the previous years too, especially if I had known that the alternative was the Spurs kicking the can down the road or just selling the pick off to give the Holts some spending money.

In fact, the Spurs have three or four picks in this draft right now. I think there's a good chance the Spurs get less out of that pick than a vet rotation player and a decent prospect. Like I'm sort of sad they didn't try for Royce O'Neal, even if it were going to be difficult to re-sign him. Just having a quality defender could've done a lot to stabilize the rotation for the rest of the year, and having Royce's Bird rights would've made it much more possible to pivot toward a win-now stance after making a big trade for Young, Mitchell or whomever else. That was worth 33 and a couple of throw-away seconds.

I mentioned alternate options (another is trading them for future picks). Why did a team in their position need to expedite this?

Virtually any team in any trade could rationalize it and again, the Spurs are in a much different position. As ever, context is imperative.

No, they don't and what they do have is low quality which is why trading a lottery ticket for relatively low ceiling is shortsighted. Needs are relative. Sign some backup off the scrap heap or promote some G-Leaguer to end the season.

Again, if the Bulls, Pistons, etc. do this, they're getting killed. They do it and unprofessional people like Lowe are defending it on their podcasts. They have enough of their buddies doing that in the national media, not sure why you feel compelled to join the fray.

[Mr. Body]

WTF is this lottery ticket you keep talking about???

Christ, this is pretty simple. Toronto is in a soft rebuild. The rebuild is around Scottie Barnes, who is now an All-Star.

They had to rebuild because Anunoby and Siakam were due tons of money this year and it just wasn't working. They moved each. Maybe too late, but that's not the issue here.

In dealing Siakam, they got two FRPs for 2024. They already have Detroit's second round pick, which right now is #31. They might get their lottery pick if it falls between 1-6.

THEY DO NOT NEED FOUR DRAFT PICKS.

What's clear is Toronto does not want to tear it down for a full rebuild. They've never wanted this. It's just not how Masai works. What seems clear is they might rather give up the pick they owe for Poeltl this year and just be done with it, especially as it's a bad draft.

Now, as for trading this pick, which is OKC's pick. It's #27, a pick that is a stretch to become a good player. They ALREADY HAVE a much better #17 pick (Indiana), that #31, which can be moved up, traded out, whatever, but is as good as you can get as a SRP. AND they may have their lotto pick.

It is CLEAR they are much better, at least somewhat competitive, with a good center on the court. This means Poeltl. Olynyk is a pretty good backup center who can also give them different looks than Jakob does. Ochai is a decent rotation guy who may improve in a new situation. Even if he doesn't, he gives them a floor-spacer, which they badly need, especially as Gary Trent is probably on his way out.

To me, to nearly everybody, this is a pretty good use for a late draft pick in a bad draft where they already have two guaranteed picks and maybe three. They get two floor-spacers who help open up the middle for Barnes to operate. And this doesn't even account for roster spots. They're not going to take on four rookies.

I can't believe I typed this out. I actually like what the Raptors have done this year. Best for them to move the Poeltl pick out and keep getting better in the next few years.

[spurraider21]

WTF is this lottery ticket you keep talking about???
lottery ticket is basically a late draft flier. like a real life lottery ticket, you know its probably not a winner. but if it doesnt work out, you dont really care too much because the opportunity cost wasnt great. its not like blowing a top 3 pick that you committed years of development into. its not a free agent you spend 50 million on over 3 years.

theyre cheap dart throws that might become a gobert, a jokic. or even if not quite that good, could become a derrick white.

the "lottery ticket" expression shouldnt be confused with "draft lottery" in that its not measuring the likelihood of that draft pick becoming a top 3 or top 5 pick, but rather measuring the likelihood of the late draft flier panning out

[Mr. Body]

Again, what the fuck are you talking about. Christ this thread went completely stupid.

[spurraider21]

Again, what the fuck are you talking about. Christ this thread went completely stupid.
i can explain it to you, but i cant understand it for you.

[TD 21]

:lmao The Craptors are basically a variation of the post Scumbag Spurs. Striving to be a treadmill team, with a likely complementary star as their centerpiece and no other above average starters and somehow this is being praised.

The point that inexplicably keeps getting lost is, I don't have a problem with the trade conceptually so much as contextually.

[scott]

Great analogy TD 21. Eventually TOR will realize where they are, and go into a full rebuild, several years after they should have, by trading away Scottie and going hard tank. In some sense, it may be in their interest to have the pick due the Spurs convey this year just to get it over with so the can proceed with tanking unencumbered.

[TXstbobcat]

Raptors taking down the Rockets tonight. Up 20.

[rascal]

Portland Memphis and Toronto in any order for 5, 6 and 7. It's going to be close in the end.

[Spurs Homer]

Raptors taking down the Rockets tonight. Up 20.

rockets only down 4
25 secs left in game

raptors trying to give it away lol

[Mr. Body]

Rockets are now 5-19 away. Toronto tried to choke that one, though. I believe they have a full game on Memphis now and are a game behind Brooklyn.

[Chinook]

I mentioned alternate options (another is trading them for future picks). Why did a team in their position need to expedite this?

The point that I'm making is that even though those alternatives seem like they're reliably going to be there, it tends not to work out during actual drafts. A team may not want to give them a future first for 28, and if we're talking about seconds and cash, it's not hard at all to see why they'd prefer the route they went. What do you mean "expedite"? Quickley is expiring and Barnes is in his swing year. This is an important stretch of games to set the groundwork for what the 2024-2025 Raptors will be.


No, they don't and what they do have is low quality which is why trading a lottery ticket for relatively low ceiling is shortsighted. Needs are relative. Sign some backup off the scrap heap or promote some G-Leaguer to end the season.

They do have a fair bit of draft capital, and this year is a key example of that. I'm not Bod -- I get what you mean by a lotto pick, but you're overrating the importance of it. The Raptors will have their chances to get a middle-draft pick by taking on money this summer. So if they can trade a ticket for players they consider useful now while keeping the option open to buy a third or fourth pick from a team like SA later, where is the opportunity cost?


Virtually any team in any trade could rationalize it and again, the Spurs are in a much different position. As ever, context is imperative.

The point is that it's easy to rationalize it. I can't make you agree, but rather than trying to use the lack of criticism to point to some systemic bias toward Toronto, it might be a sign that the trade is not that strange. As I've pointed out, I haven't been against making low-cost moves for key vets at any point in this process. Maybe the Spurs have always had some special context. But you're much more likely to catch mean thinking they aren't being aggressive enough in adding talent than me wanting them to be more conservative.


Again, if the Bulls, Pistons, etc. do this, they're getting killed. They do it and unprofessional people like Lowe are defending it on their podcasts. They have enough of their buddies doing that in the national media, not sure why you feel compelled to join the fray.

Funnily enough, the Pistons did make a similar trade when they acquired Simone Fontecchio for the projected 34th-overall pick this year. It turns out that it's not really a big deal. Would Chicago get criticized for trading a pick they don't have for a win-now player in a season in which their best player is already out for the season? Yes. Because the context is different.


:lmao The Craptors are basically a variation of the post Scumbag Spurs. Striving to be a treadmill team, with a likely complementary star as their centerpiece and no other above average starters and somehow this is being praised.

The point that inexplicably keeps getting lost is, I don't have a problem with the trade conceptually so much as contextually.

It might seem weird to some folks here, but the Spurs are fine. Basically every team that "waits too long" or "tries to stay on the treadmill" ends up being fine. The Sixers were a treadmill team before Hinkie. The Grizzlies couldn't let go of their old Grit 'n' Grind players. Dallas kept trying to get juice from the Dirk fruit long past when it became futile. If the Raptors are the DeRozan-era Spurs, then they'll be fine too. Maybe that means in three or four years they get a bunch of unprotected picks for Barnes and some more for Quickley and Barrett. Maybe they figure out how to make it work like Miami did around Bam. Even if they eventually have to tank, the only difference will be that fans with certain values will have felt like previous years were somehow wasted.

I'm actually not a huge fan of most of the moves Ujuri makes, so I will resist the accusation that I'm actually defending them. But I don't actually have any hard feelings concerning the Raptors, who at this point have given SA a decent haul in trades. Ujuri has huge blind spots for African or Africa-adjacent players which causes him to fetishize low-EROI prospects, with Agbaji potentially being just another such attempt. I didn't really have Quickley as a important player to get, so I think acquiring him for OG was a sub-optimal deal. I think Wright's been styling on him for a couple of years now too. But I will speak for moves that he makes that align with moves I wish the Spurs would make As I said, I would've liked the team to use the Charlotte pick to bring in a rotation player or have been in the O'Neal bidding. I can't fault a GM who uses a superfluous asset get two guys he thinks will be good for his team.

[Ariel]

Given the recent trades at the deadline, I believe the landscape is much clearer:
1-4: Washington (9), Charlotte (10), SA (10), Detroit (8). I wouldn't be at all surprised if Detroit ends up with the better record out of this bunch.
5: Portland (15) Even if they tank, I don't think it'd be enough to get into the bottom 4 or surpass Memphis or Brooklyn
6-7: Memphis (18), Brooklyn (20) Got weakened, but not enough to end up 5 or below
8: Toronto (19) I don't see how they don't hold off Memphis and surpass Brooklyn
9-13: Utah (26), Houston (23), Atlanta (23), Chicago (25), GSW (24). I think Utah wants to keep their pick (top 10 protected) so I wouldn't be surprised if they end up 9/10.

All in all, I think the Spurs end up with a bottom 3 record and Toronto ends up 8th, so the Spurs should get both picks.
I believe a PG will be available at Toronto's pick, my targets are Dillingham and Topic, so I'd wait until then to pick one unless the Spurs own pick ends up 5-7 (then pick whomever is higher on your board).
With the Spurs own pick, assuming top 4, I'd target Sarr (best combination of physical tools and talent, floor and upside) or Cody Williams (raw but potential to be an archetypical do it all wing, those are taken high).
So if we come away with Sarr/Cody Williams + Dillingham/Topic I'll be pretty satisfied.

[mudyez]

So all in all it looks pretty nice, doesn't it? It could land in a swet 7/8th spot this year and if it rolls over, they probably are not in full tank mode and we get a bite on the apple in a (maybe) better draft.

[JPB]

Sarr was considered a potential #1 pick not so long ago, before he got injured and could be gone after 3... The question about Sarr is if you play him next to Vic as a 4, or 5 indifferently, or use him mainly as your back up C. Can you play the two together? Do you prefer an enforcer to pair with Victor (Sarr is more of skilled big with a nice touch, although stronger than Wemby)?

And do you want to find your starting PG in this draft, and then wait for a few years for him to develop or trade for a veteran (Trae (not a fan at all), Murray...) who brings talent, order to help Wemby and put everyone to their place. Do you still go for a PG as your back up (with a vet PG who can play the two) for his rookie years before he takes over the reigns? Or do you just take BPA if you believe Risacher or another is that guy?

No matter what TOR's pick is obviously determinant regarding your strategy in the next draft, as well as who you see as BPA (Sarr, Risacher, Dillon, Topic, Dillingham...). that's a 3 factor equation: BPA, PG, big.

[CGD]

^ didn’t realize he got injured. Pretty much every mock still has Sarr at 1. It would be a poor use of a top 3 pick given we already have Vic. I don’t buy his percentages from 3 as sustainable.

[Dejounte]

Sarr is not even a “skilled big”. This thread says it all:

https://www.reddit.com/r/NBA_Draft/s/khFiavZqIW

Folks who have Sarr high on their board only have him high because they’re regurgitating/ using an aggregation of all media boards tbh.

[Dejounte]

^ didn’t realize he got injured. Pretty much every mock still has Sarr at 1. It would be a poor use of a top 3 pick given we already have Vic. I don’t buy his percentages from 3 as sustainable.

Sarr’s shooting ability and tendencies match Nic Claxton’s. Same numbers from all over the court. This idea that he’ll develop into a shooter that allows him to become a 4 is wishful thinking. And the Spurs shouldn’t draft a backup 5 with their top pick.

[Chinook]

I think as he develops, Wemby will be able to play PF at a high level. Some posters think that Wemby being a good center now means he's skipped over the bulking years it was presumed he'd need to survive there. The jury's still out on how well his body will hold up there on a star workload, but what gets overlooked is that his skill-set and understanding of the game will also improve over time to allow him to find his place on the floor with a number of different lineups. I don't have a substantial opinion about Sarr, and I do hope the Spurs draft one or two obvious rotation pieces in June. But I think we should be open to the idea that the "talent around Victor" may come in a variety of forms. For example, I think Wemby and Adebayo could actually fit well together once Victor develops a bit more. Those are two guys who can both run the PnR, catch lobs and face up. Bam needs to work on his outside shooting a bit more, but it would be a situation that would play to both of their strengths.

Collins was a uniquely bad fit next to Wemby, especially once you add in Zach's performance in general. Victor is not LMA -- he doesn't need a bunch of space to work in while everyone else stands around. He needs movement to keep guys from setting their defense. A fast dunk threat was always a better fit than a floor-spacer, and once you factor in Victor's passing ability, given him a rim-runner to feet just makes sense. The better he gets and making use of his possessions without turning it over or taking a bad shot, the more the team around him can involve finishers rather than creators. I don't know that Sarr would be a fit, but drafting a center high over the next couple of years still makes sense. The Spurs need a legit backup, and that player would still have a larger role available to them if they develop the right way. I'd be more inclined to downgrade the need at PF than C in terms of a draft board, though I think all positions should be considered open for drafting.

[Ariel]

Sarr is not even a “skilled big”. This thread says it all:

https://www.reddit.com/r/NBA_Draft/s/khFiavZqIW

Folks who have Sarr high on their board only have him high because they’re regurgitating/ using an aggregation of all media boards tbh.
You mean, as opposed to this never before seen board:

Spurs-centric Big Board (accounts for needs)
Tier 1
-Collier
-Topic
-Dillingham

Tier 2
-Buzelis
-Cody

Tier 3
-Risacher
-Holland

Tier 4
-Reed
-Walter

…everybody else
And regurgitating a reddit thread that says basically nothing interesting? :lol

[Big Empty]

Spurs either taking Topic (6’7) or Matas Buzellis (6’’10) . Two taller g/f that can shoot. Bank on it

[sfernald]

Sarr is a lock for #1. He’s back from injury and killing it. Just pencil him in now.
An ideal draft for Spurs would be to get the best point guard and best small forward in the draft.

I don’t know who that is yet but I would be comfortable with one of Cody/Rish/Buz/Holl and one of Top/Shep/Dill/Cas depending on who the spurs have at the very top of their board.

If I had my druthers I think I want shooting around Wemby so I would want Rish and Shep cause those two are among the best shooters in this draft.

Overall I think this is gonna be a great draft for the spurs.

[baseline bum]

Sarr is not even a “skilled big”. This thread says it all:

https://www.reddit.com/r/NBA_Draft/s/khFiavZqIW

Folks who have Sarr high on their board only have him high because they’re regurgitating/ using an aggregation of all media boards tbh.

Can't teach size and athleticism. Sarr wouldn't go #1 in a normal draft but this isn't a very good one. Amen Thompson would have probably gone #1 if he was in this draft.