Toronto Pick Watch (Top 6 protected)

[Rubberducky]

They just lost at home to a Portland without 2 of their best players and on the second game in a btb. 1-3 now. That pick won't convey if this keeps up.

[TrainOfThought5]

They just lost at home to a Portland without 2 of their best players and on the second game in a btb. 1-3 now. That pick won't convey if this keeps up.

They are not that bad of a team, and they’re playing in the Eastern conference they’ll be fine.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

They’re pretty bad, they have no spacing, no bench, a rookie coach and some unhappy players. Once Siakam realises he has no chance to make an all NBA team he’ll be traded as well. At some point we may have to root for them to win some games. :lol

[Splits]

worthy thread. I can see them losing in the play-in and gifting us the #12 or so

[Chinook]

I 100-percent expect them to try to tank in order to keep the pick. The issue though is that with flattened lottery odds, it's very possible to slip out of the top six if you aren't one of the four worst teams in the league. It's not hard to imagine that pick conveying against Toronto's will, especially if the Spurs finish in the bottom five. That Poeltl trade looks really disastrous right now.

[DesignatedT]

Lol way to early to say the trade is disastrous :lol

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Ideally I wouldn’t want to use that Toronto pick for drafting yet another rookie. I’d much rather it having good trade value around the deadline. Say, if Toronto are in the bottom third by then and they are offered their pick back for OG it might actually be the best one on the table for them.

[Chinook]

Lol way to early to say the trade is disastrous :lol

I mean, I guess that it can turn out okay if Toronto only gives the second-rounders. But Masai doubling down on this roster has lead to him giving up a lot of future value for a mediocre team.

[spurraider21]

Ideally I wouldn’t want to use that Toronto pick for drafting yet another rookie. I’d much rather it having good trade value around the deadline. Say, if Toronto are in the bottom third by then and they are offered their pick back for OG it might actually be the best one on the table for them.
depends how high the pick is

[The Truth #6]

I 100-percent expect them to try to tank in order to keep the pick. The issue though is that with flattened lottery odds, it's very possible to slip out of the top six if you aren't one of the four worst teams in the league. It's not hard to imagine that pick conveying against Toronto's will, especially if the Spurs finish in the bottom five. That Poeltl trade looks really disastrous right now.

Disastrous for Toronto you mean?

[spurraider21]

Disastrous for Toronto you mean?
yeah im pretty sure thats what he meant based on context of the post

[couchman]

Toronto would have to work very hard for that pick to never convey.
Even if they tank for 3 years in a row it might convey

[spurraider21]

Toronto would have to work very hard for that pick to never convey.
Even if they tank for 3 years in a row it might convey
notwithstanding ties in the standings, as long as their lottery odds are no higher than 5th best, the pick is more likely than not to convey

[Chinook]

Disastrous for Toronto you mean?

Yep. Toronto is basically what some people want the Spurs to become. Ujuri tried that "positionless basketball" shit thinking Barnes was going to be their PG and Achiuwa their center. Then it turned out that having centers is actually important, so they traded what's looking to be a decent pick for Poeltl. But that led to Masai reinvesting in his big wings to the detriment of his guards. Now Toronto is struggling to have a functional offense because they're relying on a PF playing out of position to run things for them. And they don't have the means to improve their back court without getting rid of one of the precious pieces Ujuri has. The good news for them is that they do have the means to do a tear-down if Masai can get over himself. The bad news is that he seems hellbent on fleecing some team for OG and/or Siakam, so he may end up getting nothing for them ala FVV.

[Robz4000]

Yep. Toronto is basically what some people want the Spurs to become. Ujuri tried that "positionless basketball" shit thinking Barnes was going to be their PG and Achiuwa their center. Then it turned out that having centers is actually important, so they traded what's looking to be a decent pick for Poeltl. But that led to Masai reinvesting in his big wings to the detriment of his guards. Now Toronto is struggling to have a functional offense because they're relying on a PF playing out of position to run things for them. And they don't have the means to improve their back court without getting rid of one of the precious pieces Ujuri has. The good news for them is that they do have the means to do a tear-down if Masai can get over himself. The bad news is that he seems hellbent on fleecing some team for OG and/or Siakam, so he may end up getting nothing for them ala FVV.

Sounds like TD21's wet dream tbh.

[duncan2150]

The Raps will need to trade a lot of players top become a bottom 6 team in the nba

[rascal]

Currently last in the East.

I see them unloading players for draft picks around the trade deadline and tanking to keep their top 6 pick.

[rascal]

Ideally I wouldn’t want to use that Toronto pick for drafting yet another rookie. I’d much rather it having good trade value around the deadline. Say, if Toronto are in the bottom third by then and they are offered their pick back for OG it might actually be the best one on the table for them.

Why not? The Spurs need a to add at least three strong players, one high scoring wing who can shoot the 3, a top pg, and a center.

[Atl Spur]

Nice draft to pick up a bingo body center and pg type.

[Atl Spur]

We’re actually sitting pretty! It’s coming together but we need size to surround Wemby with.

[onechance87]

who are the other teams that will be predicted to be top worst teams....Portland,houston,charlotte,orlando,washin gton....who else

[onechance87]

Nice draft to pick up a bingo body center and pg type.

Is it a good draft for pgs

[Mr. Body]

There's a good likelihood neither Charlotte nor Toronto conveys. Charlotte is going to be feast or famine. Their star is wildly inconsistent and the rest of the roster is a hodgepodge. Their two vets, Rozier and Hayward, are more or less checked out. I don't see the playoffs for them this year. Toronto should be better but the chemistry is fairly shattered with constant trade rumors. First-year coach won't help. It feels like they'll stabilize and fortunately they don't need to make the postseason to convey.

Chicago is worth watching. They really should blow it up this year, which will impact the 2025 draft.

[CGD]

Is it a good draft for pgs

Too early too tell, but seems many of the better prospects are SFs this draft.

[spurraider21]

There's a good likelihood neither Charlotte nor Toronto conveys. Charlotte is going to be feast or famine. Their star is wildly inconsistent and the rest of the roster is a hodgepodge. Their two vets, Rozier and Hayward, are more or less checked out. I don't see the playoffs for them this year. Toronto should be better but the chemistry is fairly shattered with constant trade rumors. First-year coach won't help. It feels like they'll stabilize and fortunately they don't need to make the postseason to convey.

Chicago is worth watching. They really should blow it up this year, which will impact the 2025 draft.
im not really worried about the toronto pick yet. if they wind up the 6th worst team, that still means there's more than a 50% chance of the pick conveying.

charlotte was always less likely with the heavier protections and less established roster. i think on paper they have enough to fight for a playoff spot, but it requires a lot of things to coalesce. lamelo has never been very efficient, but he's also shot 25% from the field so far. theres also still the pending return of their resident scumbag, miles bridges, which would reduce how much they need to rely on gordon hayward (even though he has played pretty well to start the year).

brandon miller has also hit the ground running for them, and mark williams continues to play well. im still keeping an eye on them

[Mr. Body]

im not really worried about the toronto pick yet. if they wind up the 6th worst team, that still means there's more than a 50% chance of the pick conveying.

charlotte was always less likely with the heavier protections and less established roster. i think on paper they have enough to fight for a playoff spot, but it requires a lot of things to coalesce. lamelo has never been very efficient, but he's also shot 25% from the field so far. theres also still the pending return of their resident scumbag, miles bridges, which would reduce how much they need to rely on gordon hayward (even though he has played pretty well to start the year).

brandon miller has also hit the ground running for them, and mark williams continues to play well. im still keeping an eye on them

Yeah this is what interests me rather than Sochan Story Hour.

Losing to the Blazers is a bad look, but the Raptors have a new coach and system. I just question their team chemistry at this point, has to be shot. I do think Anunoby is finally on the move at halftime. They should make it above 6, though, in the end.

Charlotte has more pieces than I expected and Miller is playing off Melo and others very well. Curious to see how they go in the next 20-30. Be wild if neither conveys until next year and we're sitting on five first rounders in 2025.

[duncan2150]

So the raps are beating the bucks easily tonight ( for the moment lol)

[Mr. Body]

Good sign that Raptors regrouped and stuck it to a rival.

Bucks may have picked the wrong year to pick a rookie coach.

[spurraider21]

would be pretty hilarious of this Bucks team is a failure... basically every FRP they have between now and 2030 has either been traded or swapped, and they go into next offseason as a luxury tax team and not far below the 2nd apron

and boston looks as good as it does because of Holiday, who was ironically only made available because of the lillard trade

[Fizziksman]

Spurs must win game?

[BackHome]

Probably better for us getting a good pick by letting them win

[rascal]

Probably better for us getting a good pick by letting them win

Yeah, but Toronto doesn't look very good and likely to tank down the stretch to keep that pick if not in the playoffs which is a longshot that they will. Only hope they are 5th or 6th worst and get pushed into the 7th or 8th slot which can happen after the lottery. So it won't be easy for them to make sure they get a pick inside the top 6 unless they totally blow it up to become a bottom three pick.

[rascal]

would be pretty hilarious of this Bucks team is a failure... basically every FRP they have between now and 2030 has either been traded or swapped, and they go into next offseason as a luxury tax team and not far below the 2nd apron

and boston looks as good as it does because of Holiday, who was ironically only made available because of the lillard trade

Boston has made some nice trades.

[duncan2150]

Yeah, but Toronto doesn't look very good and likely to tank down the stretch to keep that pick if not in the playoffs which is a longshot that they will. Only hope they are 5th or 6th worst and get pushed into the 7th or 8th slot which can happen after the lottery. So it won't be easy for them to make sure they get a pick inside the top 6 unless they totally blow it up to become a bottom three pick.

The raps will not tank imo and they are not a bottom 6 team

[CorrectCrusader]

Thank god we lost

[rascal]

The raps will not tank imo and they are not a bottom 6 team

They sure can tank. I don't think they will be a playoff team.

They can trade a player or two and change direction and sit players to get into the top 5 draft picks to get their pick this year.

The incentive for them to tank and keep their pick is there.

[Bruno]

Tanking to keep the pick isn't that smart for Toronto because they will also need to do it in 2025 and 2026.

A key to their season is Siakam. Raptors' GM threw him under the bus at the start of their training camp by saying he played selfishly last season and he has been nowhere near his previous level since that. There are behind that story his contractual situation with him being a free agent next summer. Will he get better? Will he be traded and if he is, for who ?

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Tanking to keep the pick isn't that smart for Toronto because they will also need to do it in 2025 and 2026.

A key to their season is Siakam. Raptors' GM threw him under the bus at the start of their training camp by saying he played selfishly last season and he has been nowhere near his previous level since that. There are behind that story his contractual situation with him being a free agent next summer. Will he get better? Will he be traded and if he is, for who ?

I live in Toronto and rumour has it ujiri wanted to blow it up last season but MLSE who own the raptors wanted him to try and make the playoffs to keep the money rolling in.

Ujiri has built an awkward roster and I’m not a fan of his moves after 2019 (Gary Trent is lousy, giving up a 1st round pick while the raptors remain on treadmill purgatory) and I see them forcing a fight for the play in again this year.

Siakam has mentally checked out and for 40+ million a year I don’t know who will take him on that contract.

It is funny seeing ujiri value OG as much as we value wemby :lol

[rjv]

Probably better for us getting a good pick by letting them win

yeah, if there was any positive gained from that dreadful loss was that it gives the raptors a win and on track for a bad but not awful record.

[duncan2150]

They sure can tank. I don't think they will be a playoff team.

They can trade a player or two and change direction and sit players to get into the top 5 draft picks to get their pick this year.

The incentive for them to tank and keep their pick is there.

They need to trade siakam, og and barnes for some draft capital only if they want to tank, that won't happen.

Only siakam will be gone by the deadline imo

[BatManu20]

Guarantee Spurs are all over this kid already and want him bad. 6’6 200 lb PG with all the Euro skills.

1721530978454159827

[BackHome]

I like his offense but can he play defense and rebound?

[BatManu20]

#1 player in the class of 2023 and the guy I hope the Spurs can somehow get their hands on. True PG and table-setter who has a man’s build already at 6’4 205+ lbs. Kid is gonna be good. Currently projected as a top-5 Pick.

1721918310365778181

[couchman]

Collier seems to get the rim whenever he wants.
We definitely need guys who can play P&R and get to the rim to open up the floor for everyone else.

[BatManu20]

Collier seems to get the rim whenever he wants.
We definitely need guys who can play P&R and get to the rim to open up the floor for everyone else.

Yup, that's strength. Strong kid who plays bully-ball against weaker PG's. Really good passer with plus 3-point shooting ability already too, and competes hard on the defensive end. Spurs would have to be really bad to have a chance at him though. Don't see us being bad enough tbh.

[Splits]

#1 player in the class of 2023 and the guy I hope the Spurs can somehow get their hands on. True PG and table-setter who has a man’s build already at 6’4 205+ lbs. Kid is gonna be good. Currently projected as a top-5 Pick.

1721918310365778181

Spurs are going to draft Bronny just to lure LBJ to mentor VW for a year or 2

[stephen jackson]

So we need raptors to be mediocre ?

[exstatic]

Spurs are going to draft Bronny just to lure LBJ to mentor VW for a year or 2

I want no one from that family on our roster.

[rascal]

I want no one from that family on our roster.

Doesn't Bronny have heart problems?

They say his brother Bryce is better than he is.

[CorrectCrusader]

Spurs are going to draft Bronny just to lure LBJ to mentor VW for a year or 2

I would kms

[BackHome]

Yup, that's strength. Strong kid who plays bully-ball against weaker PG's. Really good passer with plus 3-point shooting ability already too, and competes hard on the defensive end. Spurs would have to be really bad to have a chance at him though. Don't see us being bad enough tbh.

I think he will go top 5 if he just slightly improves from last year but I really like that he can get to the rim and finish through contact. His body is all ready NBA ready so he would definitley be starting and getting a lot of minutes who ever draft him his first year.

[Pauleta14]

Can someone explain me the excitement of having a pick that would at best bring us a kid that needs years of development?

There are no generational or (almost) NBA ready players expected...

[rascal]

Can someone explain me the excitement of having a pick that would at best bring us a kid that needs years of development?

There are no generational or (almost) NBA ready players expected...

The Spurs need to add all star level talent to the current roster. Top draft picks usually turn into the stars of the league.

Where else will the spurs get an all star level player if not in the draft and the higher the pick the higher the chance to upgrade the roster.

The Spurs build their teams from the draft not from trades for all stars or sign them out of free agency for big money.

[BackHome]

Can someone explain me the excitement of having a pick that would at best bring us a kid that needs years of development?

There are no generational or (almost) NBA ready players expected...

We got our "Generational" talent his name is Wemby, so we don't really need another "Generational" talent we just need a VERY good all around basketball player. If you look at Haliburton he was drafted with the 12th pick and I would love to have him on our team. As far as this years draft it doesn't have any Unicorns but it has talent and players that would fit very well with Wemby a kid who would probably start day one would be Isaiah Collier. I think also that people are not really looking at the International talent that will probably be coming out for this draft lots of talent - We just need to get lucky again with our pick and hope Raptors lands us a top 10 as icing on the cake

[Pauleta14]

I was hoping we use all those picks to trade for allsar level player(s)

With the "one and done" generation, most of them are really immature and not fully developped

And again there are nobody special in the next draft and if there's one we won't have him unless super lucky AGAIN

[Pauleta14]

The Spurs also built via trade and great scouting of mature and already experienced players

[BackHome]

I was hoping we use all those picks to trade for allsar level player(s)

With the "one and done" generation, most of them are really immature and not fully developped

And again there are nobody special in the next draft and if there's one we won't have him unless super lucky AGAIN

When your "Hot" roll the dice again...lol

[CGD]

I was hoping we use all those picks to trade for allsar level player(s)

With the "one and done" generation, most of them are really immature and not fully developped

And again there are nobody special in the next draft and if there's one we won't have him unless super lucky AGAIN

I suspect it will be a combination. Plus teams are always looking for “young up and coming talent” in these trades, so it would be good to 1) have pieces to develop to flip in such a future trade, or 2) replenish players currently being developed that may have to be moved for a bigger piece sooner (Malaki, Keldon, Sochan etc).

[Vince Carter's ankle]

The Spurs need to add all star level talent to the current roster. Top draft picks usually turn into the stars of the league.

Where else will the spurs get an all star level player if not in the draft and the higher the pick the higher the chance to upgrade the roster.

The Spurs build their teams from the draft not from trades for all stars or sign them out of free agency for big money.
2001 Kwame Brown, Tyson Chandler, Eddy Curry, Jason Richardson
2002 Jay Williams, Mike Dunleavy, Drew Gooden, Nikoloz Tskitishvili
2003 Darko Miličić
2004 Emeka Okafor, Ben Gordon, Shaun Livingston, Devin Harris
2005 Andrew Bogut, Marvin Williams, Raymond Felton
2006 Andrea Bargnani, Adam Morrison, Tyrus Thomas, Shelden Williams
2007 Greg Oden, Mike Conley, Jeff Green
2008 Michael Beasley, O.J. Mayo
2009 Hasheem Thabeet, Tyreke Evans, Ricky Rubio
2010 Evan Turner, Derrick Favors. Wesley Johnson
2011 Derrick Williams, Enes Freedom, Tristan Thompson, Jonas Valančiūnas
2012 Michael Kidd-Gilchrist, Dion Waiters, Thomas Robinson
2013 Anthony Bennett, Otto Porter Jr., Cody Zeller, Alex Len
2014 Andrew Wiggins, Jabari Parker, Aaron Gordon, Dante Exum
2015 D'Angelo Russell, Jahlil Okafor, Mario Hezonja
2016 Dragan Bender, Kris Dunn
2017 Markelle Fultz, Lonzo Ball, Josh Jackson
2018 Deandre Ayton, Marvin Bagley III
2019 RJ Barrett, De'Andre Hunter
2020 James Wiseman, Patrick Williams, Isaac Okoro

[Seventyniner]

2001 Kwame Brown, Tyson Chandler, Eddy Curry, Jason Richardson
2002 Jay Williams, Mike Dunleavy, Drew Gooden, Nikoloz Tskitishvili
2003 Darko Miličić
2004 Emeka Okafor, Ben Gordon, Shaun Livingston, Devin Harris
2005 Andrew Bogut, Marvin Williams, Raymond Felton
2006 Andrea Bargnani, Adam Morrison, Tyrus Thomas, Shelden Williams
2007 Greg Oden, Mike Conley, Jeff Green
2008 Michael Beasley, O.J. Mayo
2009 Hasheem Thabeet, Tyreke Evans, Ricky Rubio
2010 Evan Turner, Derrick Favors. Wesley Johnson
2011 Derrick Williams, Enes Freedom, Tristan Thompson, Jonas Valančiūnas
2012 Michael Kidd-Gilchrist, Dion Waiters, Thomas Robinson
2013 Anthony Bennett, Otto Porter Jr., Cody Zeller, Alex Len
2014 Andrew Wiggins, Jabari Parker, Aaron Gordon, Dante Exum
2015 D'Angelo Russell, Jahlil Okafor, Mario Hezonja
2016 Dragan Bender, Kris Dunn
2017 Markelle Fultz, Lonzo Ball, Josh Jackson
2018 Deandre Ayton, Marvin Bagley III
2019 RJ Barrett, De'Andre Hunter
2020 James Wiseman, Patrick Williams, Isaac Okoro

I think he didn't mean that most high draft picks are stars, but that most stars are high draft picks. That is, if you're going to get a star on your team a high draft pick gives you the best chance at it.

[SpurSpike]

Was looking into how likely this pick is to convey this year and it looks good tbh.

Found this reddit thread with Toronto fans perspective.
https://www.reddit.com/r/torontoraptors/comments/18jhlow/inspiring_this_nba_team_is_choosing_to_tank/

Below are the odds for the Raptors to keep the pick. This is a copy past from the OP of that reddit thread.

The Raptors pick is Top 6 protected; they have about a 50/50 chance of keeping it if they're 6th in odds, with the odds going up the worse they are i.e. improved lottery odds. The issue right now is the bottom teams who are at the bottom are so, so far below the Raptors that 3rd worst is unobtainable and 4th is very difficult to get to.


Scenario
Odds of Keeping the Pick (1-4)
Odds of Keeping the Pick (5-6)
Odds of Losing the Pick (7-30)




If 3rd Worst...
52.1%
40.8%
7%


If 4th Worst...
48.1%
32.9%
18.9%


If 5th Worst...
42.1%
21.8%
36%


If 6th Worst...
37.2%
8.6%
54.1%


If 7th Worst...
31.9%
0%
68%

[mo7888]

Was looking into how likely this pick is to convey this year and it looks good tbh.

Found this reddit thread with Toronto fans perspective.
https://www.reddit.com/r/torontoraptors/comments/18jhlow/inspiring_this_nba_team_is_choosing_to_tank/

Below are the odds for the Raptors to keep the pick. This is a copy past from the OP of that reddit thread.

The Raptors pick is Top 6 protected; they have about a 50/50 chance of keeping it if they're 6th in odds, with the odds going up the worse they are i.e. improved lottery odds. The issue right now is the bottom teams who are at the bottom are so, so far below the Raptors that 3rd worst is unobtainable and 4th is very difficult to get to.


Scenario
Odds of Keeping the Pick (1-4)
Odds of Keeping the Pick (5-6)
Odds of Losing the Pick (7-30)




If 3rd Worst...
52.1%
40.8%
7%


If 4th Worst...
48.1%
32.9%
18.9%


If 5th Worst...
42.1%
21.8%
36%


If 6th Worst...
37.2%
8.6%
54.1%


If 7th Worst...
31.9%
0%
68%



It's very likely to convey and be a pretty good pick

[spurraider21]

pops master plan this year is to limit the raptors ability to protect their pick by ensuring that at least the spurs finish worse than them

[TrainOfThought5]

pops master plan this year is to limit the raptors ability to protect their pick by ensuring that at least the spurs finish worse than them

Two top ten picks is exactly what this franchise needs. I love to see it. Send Sochan and Keldon to the bench with Tre and Zach and watch how much better we get. Topic/Vassell/Osman/Wemby/Sarr.

[spurraider21]

Two top ten picks is exactly what this franchise needs. I love to see it. Send Sochan and Keldon to the bench with Tre and Zach and watch how much better we get. Topic/Vassell/Osman/Wemby/Sarr.
think we've learned this wemby is good enough to handle center duties faster than we thought he could. he's holding it down now and will only get stronger as time goes on. i dont think he'll ever get to giannis type strength but probably doesn't need to given his simply absurd length and timing. he just needs to get strong enough such that he doesnt get completely uprooted every time somebody backs up into him. that and getting better at staying patient with upfakes (he's made some strides here, but still gets jumpy)

him playing the 5 will also help him offensively because his agility and handling will shine against centers. right now he still struggles to face up against wings (though he is showing more signs of taking on mismatches like he was early against the pelicans)

i feel like with Sarr we'd have 2 guys who should be centers, neither of whom has good strength yet. as wemby's outside shot improves and his handle tightens, he'll be a more viable 4 offensively, but not sure we want to go backwards with him.

imo we want to come away with a lead guard (topic) and a big wing (risacher or buzelis)

[baseline bum]

I was hoping we use all those picks to trade for allsar level player(s)

With the "one and done" generation, most of them are really immature and not fully developped

And again there are nobody special in the next draft and if there's one we won't have him unless super lucky AGAIN

I was hoping to also, but that was back in the preseason when I was thinking the Spurs were set at SG with Vassell, that one of Sochan/Johnson could be a passable starting SF, and maybe Branham could become something useful and the Spurs just needed a PG and another big or a tall swing. Now it's more clear that Sochan sucks, Branham is even worse, and at best maybe one of Vassell or Johnson could be someone worthy of being on this roster going forward. Now it would be jumping the gun since a two man team isn't winning shit. Really is impressive how much of a train wreck this roster plus Pop have been.

[CGD]

^ I agree. As it is, Cs are not as valuable as they used to be unless they are exceptional
talents like VW. Not worth using a top pick on Sarr in my view, might as well take a flier on Wiseman or Bol Bol next summer.

[spurraider21]

fwiw i dont hate sarr. if we hadnt landed wemby and instead wound up with scoot/miller or one of the thompsons, i'd probably be all for taking sarr. just seems redundant with wemby and is an inferior version

[Mugen]

I could easily see Toronto jumping into the top 6 :lol

[spurraider21]

one thing i know for certain is that the charlotte pick aint conveying this year :lol

[exstatic]

I could easily see Toronto jumping into the top 6 :lol

In the realm of possibility, but very unlikely. They’re at 10, and the lowest team to ever jump top 4 was #7. If Memphis, after Ja torched their season, and Charlotte after yet another LaMelo injury both decide to tank, I can’t see Toronto getting any higher than 8th, pre lottery. Portland and Utah have no interest in winning games. Utah loses their pick if they dropout of the top 10.

[exstatic]

one thing i know for certain is that the charlotte pick aint conveying this year :lol

Bridges suspension, followed almost immediately by LaMelo’s injury makes that unlikely. We get one more crack at it, and luckily, it wasn’t the linchpin of the trade, more of a throw in with those unprotected ATL picks and swaps.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

I was hoping to also, but that was back in the preseason when I was thinking the Spurs were set at SG with Vassell, that one of Sochan/Johnson could be a passable starting SF, and maybe Branham could become something useful and the Spurs just needed a PG and another big or a tall swing. Now it's more clear that Sochan sucks, Branham is even worse, and at best maybe one of Vassell or Johnson could be someone worthy of being on this roster going forward. Now it would be jumping the gun since a two man team isn't winning shit. Really is impressive how much of a train wreck this roster plus Pop have been.

Yeah, I’m miffed at how bad this roster compared to what I thought they were before the season started.

[taps]

https://www.reddit.com/r/torontoraptors/comments/18jhlow/inspiring_this_nba_team_is_choosing_to_tank/

Below are the odds for the Raptors to keep the pick.


Scenario
Odds of Keeping the Pick (1-4)
Odds of Keeping the Pick (5-6)
Odds of Losing the Pick (7-30)




If 3rd Worst...
52.1%
40.8%
7%


If 4th Worst...
48.1%
32.9%
18.9%


If 5th Worst...
42.1%
21.8%
36%


If 6th Worst...
37.2%
8.6%
54.1%


If 7th Worst...
31.9%
0%
68%



Thank you for posting. TOR are currently .429
9th worst in the league.
Streak : W1

[spurs10]

Was looking into how likely this pick is to convey this year and it looks good tbh.

Found this reddit thread with Toronto fans perspective.
https://www.reddit.com/r/torontoraptors/comments/18jhlow/inspiring_this_nba_team_is_choosing_to_tank/

Below are the odds for the Raptors to keep the pick.This is a copy past from the OP of that reddit thread.

The Raptors pick is Top 6 protected; they have about a 50/50 chance of keeping it if they're 6th in odds, with the odds going up the worse they are i.e. improved lottery odds. The issue right now is the bottom teams who are at the bottom are so, so far below the Raptors that 3rd worst is unobtainable and 4th is very difficult to get to.


Scenario
Odds of Keeping the Pick (1-4)
Odds of Keeping the Pick (5-6)
Odds of Losing the Pick (7-30)




If 3rd Worst...
52.1%
40.8%
7%


If 4th Worst...
48.1%
32.9%
18.9%


If 5th Worst...
42.1%
21.8%
36%


If 6th Worst...
37.2%
8.6%
54.1%


If 7th Worst...
31.9%
0%
68%



Great post. Gives me room to hope.

[rascal]

Thank you for posting. TOR are currently .429
9th worst in the league.
Streak : W1

They got a win against an injured Charlotte team tonight.

But they haven't been looking very good and still plenty of time for them to tank into the bottom 5.

[gambit1990]

didn't know about the pick.

i guess keldon for siakam won't happen after all ...

[Extra Stout]

They got a win against an injured Charlotte team tonight.

But they haven't been looking very good and still plenty of time for them to tank into the bottom 5.
They will have to tank very hard. The only team in the bottom 6 with any upside is Memphis, and Chicago and Utah are on the verge of detonation.

[exstatic]

They will have to tank very hard. The only team in the bottom 6 with any upside is Memphis, and Chicago and Utah are on the verge of detonation.

Utah loses their pick if it falls outside the top 10, so they are motivated to lose.

[slick'81]

Do tor definitely fxk the spurs here right?!

[rascal]

They will have to tank very hard. The only team in the bottom 6 with any upside is Memphis, and Chicago and Utah are on the verge of detonation.

And they can tank hard.

I expect Toronto to unload a player or two around the trade deadline and tank hard.

Not likely they will remain in the 7-10 range record wise and give up that pick to the Spurs. We will see what happens but I'm expecting them to tank to get inside the top five.
Next year they'll worry about the pick again when that time comes but they will put that off for another year.

Portland showed how a team can tank down the stretch and fall inside the bottom five record wise and jump into the top three draft picks.

[CorrectCrusader]

Can't see Toronto breaking into the 6 worst teams, there's a pretty big talent gap when you go passed Utah. It's up to the lottery balls in the end.

[rascal]

Can't see Toronto breaking into the 6 worst teams, there's a pretty big talent gap when you go passed Utah. It's up to the lottery balls in the end.

That's because you're looking at it today, by what you see the standings today, not how things can and will change.

Did you see Portland in the bottom five at this point last season?

[sfernald]

What do you guys think about this trade?

https://i.postimg.cc/CMb8K0ZL/IMG-0659.jpg

Is good for both teams. But need to sign Pas to a nice long contract which we can afford to do with rookie contract Wemby.

Then next offseason, draft the best point guard in the draft and sign a star vet point guard like Chris Paul to train him.

Then in two years we might make the playin like OKC did last year.

and best of all Dougie can lead their tank!

[DAF86]

We need the Raptors to start winning more games, if they keep stinking it up, they are just gonna blow it up and go full tank mode ala Mavericks last season.

[TD 21]

They're too arrogant to "blow it up" (my guess is only Siakam and Trent Jr. are traded out of prominent players, but that they get one/some back for the former) but they will shamelessly tank (and not have it attached to their name by the media, unlike the Spurs).

The question is, are they like supposedly many, so down on this draft that they'd just prefer to get it out of the way now?

[CGD]

What do you guys think about this trade?

https://i.postimg.cc/CMb8K0ZL/IMG-0659.jpg

Is good for both teams. But need to sign Pas to a nice long contract which we can afford to do with rookie contract Wemby.

Then next offseason, draft the best point guard in the draft and sign a star vet point guard like Chris Paul to train him.

Then in two years we might make the playin like OKC did last year.

and best of all Dougie can lead their tank!

Nah, if they Pasqual so much just wait u til the summer when he’s an UFA.

[BatManu20]

What do you guys think about this trade?

https://i.postimg.cc/CMb8K0ZL/IMG-0659.jpg

Is good for both teams. But need to sign Pas to a nice long contract which we can afford to do with rookie contract Wemby.

Then next offseason, draft the best point guard in the draft and sign a star vet point guard like Chris Paul to train him.

Then in two years we might make the playin like OKC did last year.

and best of all Dougie can lead their tank!


Pass. Siakim turns 30 in a couple months and doesn't fit the timeline. Much rather wait til ATL inevitably fails in the First Round of the Playoffs again this year (or misses the Playoffs altogether) to go all-in on Trae Young this Summer, who's only 25, is a top-10 scorer in the league, fills our biggest position of need at PG, and still has 3 years left on his contract after this year. Doubt it happens of course, but if you're going to trade your leading scorer in KJ + multiple draft picks, that's the guy I'm targeting tbh. He excels in the PnR and he and Wemby would be fantastic together.


https://fadeawayworld.net/.image/t_share/MjAyNTMzMTM1Mjg2NzQwMDM2/387513919_1065524868175991_1390489391980981617_n.p ng

[tbdog]

Nah, if they Pasqual so much just wait u til the summer when he’s an UFA.

Usually you have an agreement before the trade.

[CGD]

Pass. Siakim turns 30 in a couple months and doesn't fit the timeline. Much rather wait til ATL inevitably fails in the First Round of the Playoffs again this year (or misses the Playoffs altogether) to go all-in on Trae Young this Summer, who's only 25, is a top-10 scorer in the league, fills our biggest position of need at PG, and still has 3 years left on his contract after this year. Doubt it happens of course, but if you're going to trade your leading scorer in KJ + multiple draft picks, that's the guy I'm targeting tbh. He excels in the PnR and he and Wemby would be fantastic together.


https://fadeawayworld.net/.image/t_share/MjAyNTMzMTM1Mjg2NzQwMDM2/387513919_1065524868175991_1390489391980981617_n.p ng

That would be something to behold. Those two and a bunch of 6'8" wings who can defend and shoot, would be a dream.

[tbdog]

Trey would be the ideal type of pg Spurs need. Atlanta won't move from him.

[BatManu20]

Trey would be the ideal type of pg Spurs need. Atlanta won't move from him.

Highly unlikely, at least not yet. He would have to demand a trade imo. But ATL is currently the 10-seed in the East with an 11-15 record and clearly nowhere near contending for anything. Their roster is a mess, lacks talent like ours, and they're going nowhere anytime soon. They traded 3 FRP's for Dejounte and he hasn't moved the needle at all for them. No major Free Agents are signing there anytime soon. I really don't see any avenue for them to becoming legitimate contenders with their current roster situation and lack of draft picks.

Would gladly offer them all their picks back + one of ours or Chicago's for Trae and not think twice about it. They get a full rebuild and we get a franchise player the PG position. Too good to be true I'm sure, but that'd be my aim if I were Brian Wright.

[spurraider21]

spurstalk hates Trae, and i have issues with him as well, but he's the best lob passer in the game, has a good in-between floater game (not great at the rim), and is a capable outside shooter. defensively... yeah, not good. but not really worse than branham :lol

otoh, its not gonna happen

[CorrectCrusader]

spurstalk hates Trae, and i have issues with him as well, but he's the best lob passer in the game, has a good in-between floater game (not great at the rim), and is a capable outside shooter. defensively... yeah, not good. but not really worse than branham :lol

otoh, its not gonna happen

Trae with Wemby is possibly the best pairing of all time ngl

[spurraider21]

average ST comment about Trae Young makes him sound like devonte graham tbh :lol

[CGD]

^ the other guys I'm watching over the next 18 months is Devin Booker. Durant and Beal wont last forever, for different reasons (age; overrated china doll). If shit runs its course there, i can also see PHX in 2 years wanting to move him to recover FRPs and to get off his salary.

[BatManu20]

average ST comment about Trae Young makes him sound like devonte graham tbh :lol

Trae gets shit on a lot by casuals because of his lack of defense but moreso his cockiness imo, but he's still a top-20 player in the league, or top-22 at worst. He's a true #1 scoring option and one of the top 6 or 7 best playmakers in the league atm. Excels greatly in the PnR and like you mentioned, one of the best lob-throwers in the game. He and Wemby would feast together for years to come. ATL isn't trading him though, at least not yet. He's going to rot on that roster for the next couple years at least as ATL continues to be a mess. You hate to see it.

[SpursBills]

Trae gets shit on a lot by casuals because of his lack of defense but moreso his cockiness imo, but he's still a top-20 player in the league, or top-22 at worst. He's a true #1 scoring option and one of the top 6 or 7 best playmakers in the league atm. Excels greatly in the PnR and like you mentioned, one of the best lob-throwers in the game. He and Wemby would feast together for years to come. ATL isn't trading him though, at least not yet. He's going to rot on that roster for the next couple years at least as ATL continues to be a mess. You hate to see it.

Trae's going rate for the spurs is probably 2025 ATL 1st, 2027 ATL 1st, 1 more spurs 1st, and Devin Vassell. If they want to trade Keldon instead of Vassell it'll probably take 2 more 1st rounders. That's slightly more than Gobert went for, but Trae probably means more to ATL than Gobert meant to Utah. Is that something you're willing to pull the trigger on?

[Mugen]

:lol Pop would have Trae guarding the best scorers night in, night out to make sure he gets over himself tbh

[exstatic]

What do you guys think about this trade?

https://i.postimg.cc/CMb8K0ZL/IMG-0659.jpg

Is good for both teams. But need to sign Pas to a nice long contract which we can afford to do with rookie contract Wemby.

Then next offseason, draft the best point guard in the draft and sign a star vet point guard like Chris Paul to train him.

Then in two years we might make the playin like OKC did last year.

and best of all Dougie can lead their tank!

Crazytown. Siakam is a rental! He refused to sign a deal, which means he would refuse an extend and trade. They do NOT get that fucking pick back for a rental.

[tbdog]

Another player I like and is gettable, Is Garland. Cavs can't go with just center and guards. Starting bid of Johnson, Jones and a future asset should get them thinking.

[rascal]

Highly unlikely, at least not yet. He would have to demand a trade imo. But ATL is currently the 10-seed in the East with an 11-15 record and clearly nowhere near contending for anything. Their roster is a mess, lacks talent like ours, and they're going nowhere anytime soon. They traded 3 FRP's for Dejounte and he hasn't moved the needle at all for them. No major Free Agents are signing there anytime soon. I really don't see any avenue for them to becoming legitimate contenders with their current roster situation and lack of draft picks.

Would gladly offer them all their picks back + one of ours or Chicago's for Trae and not think twice about it. They get a full rebuild and we get a franchise player the PG position. Too good to be true I'm sure, but that'd be my aim if I were Brian Wright.

No way, all their picks are valuable. Unprotected picks are gold especially from a team that likely isn't going to be good.

[Ditty]

I got to agree with Rascal for once and agree I am not touching those two unprotected picks and a really good chance of the unprotected swap being better than ATL in 2026. Especially in 2025 and hope ATL implodes and have a chance at Cooper Flagg :flag:

[freetiago]

If this draft is weaker it may be better for Toronto to tank this year so they could get the pick next year. Would assume they could get out of the bottom 6 though which probably won’t happen if they blow it up

[exstatic]

If this draft is weaker it may be better for Toronto to tank this year so they could get the pick next year. Would assume they could get out of the bottom 6 though which probably won’t happen if they blow it up

That honestly makes no sense. If this (2024) draft is weaker, you’d want to convey the pick, so that you can keep your 2025 pick. Conveying the pick also makes you weaker and worse for the 2024-2025 season, leading to the 2025 draft.

[Mal]

Keep the picks for now. Spurs are not one trade away from being respectable. There is a chance some teams will be blowing up next season, and guys like Donovan Mitchell may be available.

[scott]

That honestly makes no sense. If this (2024) draft is weaker, you’d want to convey the pick, so that you can keep your 2025 pick. Conveying the pick also makes you weaker and worse for the 2024-2025 season, leading to the 2025 draft.

Can TOR unilaterally waive their protections without any compensation? Say for example if they finish 6th, don’t like the board, and would rather free up their pick (for use or trade)?

Or would there have to be some kind of pseudo trade where send them a top-55 protected SRP for them to lift protections?

[rascal]

Can TOR unilaterally waive their protections without any compensation? Say for example if they finish 6th, don’t like the board, and would rather free up their pick (for use or trade)?

Or would there have to be some kind of pseudo trade where send them a top-55 protected SRP for them to lift protections?

Do you know people who will give you free money?

[scott]

Do you know people who will give you free money?

No, but I also don’t know anyone who uses stupid ass analogies like this one.

The better analogy is that Toronto owes us money. It’s not free. They owe it. The perceived quality of players available next year versus next year (along with the flexibility that TOR gains by the pick conveying this year in terms of the trades they are available to make) are the interest rate.

Toronto can pay us in cash this year, or they can pay us next year (or the year after) with interest.

[Chinook]

Can TOR unilaterally waive their protections without any compensation? Say for example if they finish 6th, don’t like the board, and would rather free up their pick (for use or trade)?

Or would there have to be some kind of pseudo trade where send them a top-55 protected SRP for them to lift protections?

Altering protections on a pick has normally counted as an asset in a trade. For example, Charlotte would need some return to legally change their pick from top-14 protected to, say top-4 protected. However, the scenario you propose is much simpler, because it would be the Raptors trading their 2024 pick to the Spurs for their protected 2025 pick. Since we're talking about after the protections fully kick in, the pick owed to SA becomes a 2025 pick and entirely separate from the 2024 pick they didn't get because of the protections. Toronto would even be able to trade that pick away to another team if they wanted to so long as they waited until draft day to do it.

But if for some reason, SA doesn't want to take the sixth-overall pick in hopes of getting a high pick in a future year (which I can't imagine, but just playing out the scenario), they could refuse or otherwise require additional compensation.

[scott]

Altering protections on a pick has normally counted as an asset in a trade. For example, Charlotte would need some return to legally change their pick from top-14 protected to, say top-4 protected. However, the scenario you propose is much simpler, because it would be the Raptors trading their 2024 pick to the Spurs for their protected 2025 pick. Since we're talking about after the protections fully kick in, the pick owed to SA becomes a 2025 pick and entirely separate from the 2024 pick they didn't get because of the protections. Toronto would even be able to trade that pick away to another team if they wanted to so long as they waited until draft day to do it.

But if for some reason, SA doesn't want to take the sixth-overall pick in hopes of getting a high pick in a future year (which I can't imagine, but just playing out the scenario), they could refuse or otherwise require additional compensation.

So if I am understanding you correctly, if TOR had the #6 pick but wanted to go ahead and get it over with, they would offer the Spurs to trade the #6 2024 pick to the Spurs for their own 2025 (top 6 protected) pick back?

[rascal]

No, but I also don’t know anyone who uses stupid ass analogies like this one.

The better analogy is that Toronto owes us money. It’s not free. They owe it. The perceived quality of players available next year versus next year (along with the flexibility that TOR gains by the pick conveying this year in terms of the trades they are available to make) are the interest rate.

Toronto can pay us in cash this year, or they can pay us next year (or the year after) with interest.

Stupid is to believe Toronto will even consider giving the Spurs an unprotected draft pick this year for nothing.

[scott]

Stupid is to believe Toronto will even consider giving the Spurs an unprotected draft pick this year for nothing.

Stupid is obviously not understanding the scenario, and continuing to post about it (hint: that’s you).

[spurraider21]

If this draft is weaker it may be better for Toronto to tank this year so they could get the pick next year. Would assume they could get out of the bottom 6 though which probably won’t happen if they blow it up
even if things go south in atlanta, the extension murray signed raises their floor tbh

[exstatic]

Can TOR unilaterally waive their protections without any compensation? Say for example if they finish 6th, don’t like the board, and would rather free up their pick (for use or trade)?

Or would there have to be some kind of pseudo trade where send them a top-55 protected SRP for them to lift protections?

I think the protection removal would be ‘consideration’, and half a trade, with something like you suggested, a minimum risk to convey second rounder as the other half of the trade.

[FutureMan]

All this talk about the Spurs trading up, down, to other drafts but have they ever traded a pick? I know they have moved 2nd round picks but.. well they are 2nds. When have they traded 1st round picks? And have they ever trade a first they got from another team?

[Chinook]

So if I am understanding you correctly, if TOR had the #6 pick but wanted to go ahead and get it over with, they would offer the Spurs to trade the #6 2024 pick to the Spurs for their own 2025 (top 6 protected) pick back?

Yes, that's a completely viable trade. I don't know if it's fair value or if one side (Toronto if we're being real) would want something added to the pick they're getting. But it's legal without any extra compensation going back.

As far as I know, altering protections can't be done unilaterally under any circumstances. Like Toronto can't just decide their 2024 pick is now unprotected to SA. The Spurs would have to agree to it, and possibly request compensation for allowing the pick to be conveyed this year. After all, if the Raptors think a protected pick is more valuable next year than an unprotected first is this year, the Spurs might think the same. Language that gives the option for one side to defer a pick can be written into a trade, like NOP's option on the 2024/2025 LAL pick. I don't know if that can be compatible with normal protection language though. Like it's possible the Spurs and Raptors could've agreed to a trade where TOR agreed to trade an unprotected first to SAS but had the option to defer it each year for three years. I don't know that it's illegal, and I actually wonder if something like that could ever enter actual trade conventions. It has some similarities to protections, but some real differences too.

[freetiago]

You didn’t understand the post. Toronto keeps pick this year so Spurs could get the pick next year in a better draft

[CGD]

You didn’t understand the post. Toronto keeps pick this year so Spurs could get the pick next year in a better draft

We don’t know if it will be a better draft, we just know Cooper Flagg will be in it. I’m also concerned about having potentially 5 (!) FRPs in a single draft. Rather have the TOR convey now to 1) spread out the talent pipeline, and 2) not dilute the value of our individual picks for trade purposes by having them tied to one draft.

[Extra Stout]

If the pick doesn’t convey by 2026, does it become unprotected for 2027 or is it extinguished?

[spurraider21]

If the pick doesn’t convey by 2026, does it become unprotected for 2027 or is it extinguished?
becomes a 2026 and 2027 second rounder

[exstatic]

All this talk about the Spurs trading up, down, to other drafts but have they ever traded a pick? I know they have moved 2nd round picks but.. well they are 2nds. When have they traded 1st round picks? And have they ever trade a first they got from another team?

In back to back years, we traded FRPs John Salmons to PHI, and Leandro Barbosa to PHO.

[FutureMan]

In back to back years, we traded FRPs John Salmons to PHI, and Leandro Barbosa to PHO.


I was just looking into those trades. Salmons at pick 26 and Barbosa at pick 28. Both make you wonder. Especially since the Barbosa trade could’ve lead to David Lee… but at the end of the day this prime Spurs time so can’t be too upset about it. I can definitely see why they don’t trade their 1st anymore.

[Ocotillo]

If there are too many picks in any given year I look for them to ship them out for future considerations. Good draft or bad draft, GMs always have players they fall in love with and will make an offer for a pick.

[spurraider21]

1738318896971862218

[freetiago]

Knicks would be morons to do that. A team like the Suns would be better off dumping no D injured chucker Beal+ picks to Hawks and trying Dejounte. People slide back to natural positions then for Suns+ some D and Beal pairs better with Trae since he is offball player.

[BackHome]

1738318896971862218

I believe the Knicks have a pretty good amount of available draft picks they could use?

[CGD]

I believe the Knicks have a pretty good amount of available draft picks they could use?

Yup, they could do the Fournier contract straight up with a bunch of picks. They have protected picked from WAS, DAL, and one other team (can’t remember now), in addition to their own. Not sure what player ATL would want from Knicks instead of picks; they probably don’t want another small guard in IQ.

[SpursBills]

Raptors currently in 7th, they'll move up to 6th worst with memphis improving. I think it's going to be pretty close whether we lose the pick this year, and if we do we are in serious danger of the pick turning into 2 2nd rounders in a couple years as I don't see this team getting better. I think at this point there's a good chance the raptors, bulls, and hornets picks all don't convey.

[offset formation]

Raptors currently in 7th, they'll move up to 6th worst with memphis improving. I think it's going to be pretty close whether we lose the pick this year, and if we do we are in serious danger of the pick turning into 2 2nd rounders in a couple years as I don't see this team getting better. I think at this point there's a good chance the raptors, bulls, and hornets picks all don't convey.

Yes. Looks like if Wright keeps his job, he will only keep his job due to the way he bent Atlanta over the table in the Murray trade.

[TD 21]

The Grizzlies will probably pass them in short order, they'll probably egregiously tank again soon enough and Silver and company, who they're buddies with, will be tempted to bail them out again.

[BackHome]

I think Raptors will get the sixth position and I am hoping on draft order night they get bounced to the 7th pick skme much needed Karma

[onechance87]

wow raptors gonna get the pick....They aint even trying to tank yet...Already in lottery position
for top 6 pick

[The Truth #6]

The flattened odds really make it hard to say conclusively. It will be a tense lottery night.

[onechance87]

The flattened odds really make it hard to say conclusively. It will be a tense lottery night.

if we dont get that pick....wright needs to be fired...Giving collins that ext,Trading poeltl for nothing pretty much..
What a mess he created

[exstatic]

if we dont get that pick....wright needs to be fired...Giving collins that ext,Trading poeltl for nothing pretty much..
What a mess he created

It’s 1-6 for three years, 2024-2026. Masai has shown no stomach for an extended tank. They picked Barnes #4 in 2021, and were right back in the playoffs/play in picture the last two years.

I also don’t see Utah continuing to win, considering they need to have their pick top 10 or they lose it. They don’t have a lot of margin for error right now.

[duncan2150]

Why are some people so depressed ? The toronto’s pick is possible for three years With that little protection.

And i prefer to have Toronto in this situation : not in the bottom 5( sas, detroit, wash will be behind them for sure and then you have charlotte and portland) but close to them, there is a good chance this pick will convey imo.

And still Toronto is one game from the tenth place in the east. Not far from the best possible situation for us.

[rascal]

wow raptors gonna get the pick....They aint even trying to tank yet...Already in lottery position
for top 6 pick

If Toronto gets into the bottom 5 then the odds favor them keeping the pick.

I don't see them staying at 6th or 7th without trying to tank enough to get the better lottery odds.

Charlotte will pass them when they start getting healthy. It isn't going to be hard for Toronto to fall into the bottom 5.

[duncan2150]

If Toronto gets into the bottom 5 then the odds favor them keeping the pick.

I don't see them staying at 6th or 7th without trying to tank enough to get the better lottery odds.

Charlotte will pass them when they start getting healthy. It isn't going to be hard for Toronto to fall into the bottom 5.

one thing everyone will agree is that the bottom three is out of reach

then i don’t know How you can Feel confident that they will be bottom 5, they are more close to the play in than the bottom 5.

[TD 21]

I'd prefer it convey now because they need to accelerate this re-build, which is not to be confused with doing short sighted things.

I don't care which draft supposedly projects as better either. They've got multiple 1sts coming in many of them throughout the decade anyway.

[exstatic]

If Toronto gets into the bottom 5 then the odds favor them keeping the pick.

I don't see them staying at 6th or 7th without trying to tank enough to get the better lottery odds.

Charlotte will pass them when they start getting healthy. It isn't going to be hard for Toronto to fall into the bottom 5.

Pre-lottery Position #5 has the highest individual pick odds of pick #7, at 26.7%.

[Mugen]

Sniff Crew doing so much damage control, that TOR pick ain't conveying :lmao

[onechance87]

utah and portland aint trying to lose and playing to win....And toronto are so bad even with a healthy lineup and
still losing...We aint getting that pick from raptors

[Kurik]

3 years to convey, not worried.

[duncan2150]

Sniff Crew doing so much damage control, that TOR pick ain't conveying :lmao

if he ain’t , he ain’t lol but that’s too early to say now.

Big game against wash tonight :)

[onechance87]

3 years to convey, not worried.

we need talent now,Not a year or two from now

[CorrectCrusader]

if we dont get that pick....wright needs to be fired...Giving collins that ext,Trading poeltl for nothing pretty much..
What a mess he created

Poeltl didn't get traded for nothing. Raptors pick will convey over the next 3 years

[onechance87]

Poeltl didn't get traded for nothing. Raptors pick will convey over the next 3 years

we need help now bro

[CorrectCrusader]

we need help now bro

With how bad we are, we're gonna be getting top end talent in the draft for the next 3 years or so with our OWN pick

[BackHome]

Lol we not going from getting number 1 pick last year to playing Championship basketball in two years. People need to understand we need to huge influx of talent which is going to take a few years as we not a free agency destination. So everyone needs to hope and pray we luck out and get the right picks and players this upcoming draft and also for 2025 draft.

[spurraider21]

Lol we not going from getting number 1 pick last year to playing Championship basketball in two years. People need to understand we need to huge influx of talent which is going to take a few years as we not a free agency destination. So everyone needs to hope and pray we luck out and get the right picks and players this upcoming draft and also for 2025 draft.
nobody is saying we need to reach championship level. the frustration is that the team is playing worse than last year.

[bluebellmaniac]

nobody is saying we need to reach championship level. the frustration is that the team is playing worse than last year.

That's part of the plan. We want losses. Period.

The proof in the pudding is next year.

[spurraider21]

That's part of the plan. We want losses. Period.

The proof in the pudding is next year.
players improve over time. we should have seen a year's worth of development from vassell, branham, etc. instead, stagnant.

they're not going to magically show 2 years worth of improvement next year

[baseline bum]

That's part of the plan. We want losses. Period.

The proof in the pudding is next year.

I don't want losses. There is nothing in this draft worth losing 65-70 games for.

[rascal]

I don't want losses. There is nothing in this draft worth losing 65-70 games for.

It's still better at the top of a weak draft than in the middle of a weak draft.

[spurraider21]

No team is going to instantly go from picking top 3 every year to being a contender overnight. Improvement will have increments. You might have a play in game. You might be a low seed and get crushed by a real contender. But those are valuable experiences in and of themselves.

was okc a failure last season because they missed the playoffs but also weren’t picking top 3 overall?

[bluebellmaniac]

players improve over time. we should have seen a year's worth of development from vassell, branham, etc. instead, stagnant.

they're not going to magically show 2 years worth of improvement next year

You can improve players and still lose. Sochan playing PG improves him while he's not playing his natural position.

It's the Mr Miyagi "wash on - wipe off" effect. Pop is up here playing chess while you out here playing checkers.

We'll have a solid team that'll be good for the next 8 yrs. But it may take this season and maybe next season to assemble.

Patience is required. We building something up in here.

[CorrectCrusader]

Atlanta is sliding bad. They can help with The Toronto pick convey.

[onechance87]

Atlanta is sliding bad. They can help with The Toronto pick convey.

atlanta gotta make a move to try to improve imo

[exstatic]

atlanta gotta make a move to try to improve imo

How? They can’t even trade a swap until 2028, or a FRP until 2029. Most teams want picks and swaps. Their best package is 2028,2030 unprotected swaps, and a 2029 unprotected FRP. That’s not a lot.

[CGD]

Atlanta is sliding bad. They can help with The Toronto pick convey.

Basically we need one of Hawks and Bulls to be worse than Toronto, or for Memphis to stay where they are. But I think Memphis will end up being better than all 3 of those teams.

[TrainOfThought5]

No team is going to instantly go from picking top 3 every year to being a contender overnight. Improvement will have increments. You might have a play in game. You might be a low seed and get crushed by a real contender. But those are valuable experiences in and of themselves.

was okc a failure last season because they missed the playoffs but also weren’t picking top 3 overall?

chet redshirted last year.

[exstatic]

chet redshirted last year.

Yeah, they would have made the playoffs with him in the lineup.

[couchman]

Toronto will likely finish somewhere around 5 or 6 and the lottery will decide their fate.
It seems likely that pick will convey eventually in the next 3 years.

Atlanta should tank now for a high pick so that they’re better next year when their picks start going to SA.
They probably won’t do that because everyone in that building expected to win this year and probably hasn’t given up yet.
The DJM trade rumors are about a plan to improve the team now, not a rebuild.
If things implode and they’re willing to unload Trae, or he demands a trade, I’d be willing to give them back their picks plus Keldon or some similar package.
Those ATL picks look spicy!

Chicago probably trades away LaVine but is that enough to tank next year?
LaVine has missed most of this season so far and they’re sitting at 10.
That FRP they owe us is protected top 10 next year and top 8 in ‘26 and ‘27.
They would probably have to move more parts to truly tank and deny us the FRP they owe us.

The Charlotte pick will not convey.They suck and what’s one more bad year to them?
They won’t even have to tank on purpose.

[exstatic]

Toronto will likely finish somewhere around 5 or 6 and the lottery will decide their fate.
It seems likely that pick will convey eventually in the next 3 years.

Atlanta should tank now for a high pick so that they’re better next year when their picks start going to SA.
They probably won’t do that because everyone in that building expected to win this year and probably hasn’t given up yet.
The DJM trade rumors are about a plan to improve the team now, not a rebuild.
If things implode and they’re willing to unload Trae, or he demands a trade, I’d be willing to give them back their picks plus Keldon or some similar package.
Those ATL picks look spicy!

Chicago probably trades away LaVine but is that enough to tank next year?
LaVine has missed most of this season so far and they’re sitting at 10.
That FRP they owe us is protected top 10 next year and top 8 in ‘25 and ‘26.
They would probably have to move more parts to truly tank and deny us the FRP they owe us.

The Charlotte pick will not convey.They suck and what’s one more bad year to them?
They won’t even have to tank on purpose.

Agree on Toronto.

If the ATL picks look spicy, we should keep them, rather than spend them on a low efficiency heliocentric gunner.

Charlotte really needs to win sometime soon, or LaMelo will bolt. He’ll be unrestricted next time, and losing one more time isn’t worth keeping a pick in the 15-30 range away from us, as those are the only circumstances where we get it. I can see it maybe conveying next year.

[baseline bum]

It's still better at the top of a weak draft than in the middle of a weak draft.

They'd have to be a play-in team to draft in the middle. Don't need to be going on 18 game losing streaks to get a high draft pick.

[rascal]

They'd have to be a play-in team to draft in the middle. Don't need to be going on 18 game losing streaks to get a high draft pick.

Rather have a top 3 pick than a lower lottery pick 10-15.

[duncan2150]

Toronto will likely finish somewhere around 5 or 6 and the lottery will decide their fate.
It seems likely that pick will convey eventually in the next 3 years.

Atlanta should tank now for a high pick so that they’re better next year when their picks start going to SA.
They probably won’t do that because everyone in that building expected to win this year and probably hasn’t given up yet.
The DJM trade rumors are about a plan to improve the team now, not a rebuild.
If things implode and they’re willing to unload Trae, or he demands a trade, I’d be willing to give them back their picks plus Keldon or some similar package.
Those ATL picks look spicy!

Chicago probably trades away LaVine but is that enough to tank next year?
LaVine has missed most of this season so far and they’re sitting at 10.
That FRP they owe us is protected top 10 next year and top 8 in ‘25 and ‘26.
They would probably have to move more parts to truly tank and deny us the FRP they owe us.

The Charlotte pick will not convey.They suck and what’s one more bad year to them?
They won’t even have to tank on purpose.

Agreed overall

imo those hawks picks will be really interesting, bulls could be also

about the raptors imo the worst they could be is 6, i don't see charlotte or portland finishing ahead of them. Actually they are closer to the pick 12-13 than the 5th. They just changed their lineup and they will fight with atlanta and chicago for the play in. That's the way i see it.

[CorrectCrusader]

Agree on Toronto.

If the ATL picks look spicy, we should keep them, rather than spend them on a low efficiency heliocentric gunner.

Charlotte really needs to win sometime soon, or LaMelo will bolt. He’ll be unrestricted next time, and losing one more time isn’t worth keeping a pick in the 15-30 range away from us, as those are the only circumstances where we get it. I can see it maybe conveying next year.

Trae Young is a superstar level player. If all it takes is their own picks back and a low level player on our squad, you do it.

[The Truth #6]

Trae Young is a superstar level player. If all it takes is their own picks back and a low level player on our squad, you do it.

They mostly draft well other than picking Trae. Their coach is good. I don't or maybe even want to know all the nuances of the Atlanta Hawks, but sure feels like Young is the center of all their problems. Now Trae with Wemby is different. But I wouldn't prioritize him unless he came at a discount. Just my opinion.

[exstatic]

Trae Young is a superstar level player. If all it takes is their own picks back and a low level player on our squad, you do it.

Why has Atlanta, with a one year exception, been a first round out? Why are they currently 12-18 with no notable injuries? Superstars do better than that. He’s a skinny James Harden who won’t win anything, either, and before you come at me with Wemby, note that he took John Collins, a legit 20/10 guy, and slowly destroyed his game by denying him the ball. A heliocentric guard would be about the worst archetype player to acquire.

[couchman]

Trae may or may not be a championship player, but the guy can throw a lob pass
Wemby would FEAST

[exstatic]

Trae may or may not be a championship player, but the guy can throw a lob pass
Wemby would FEAST

If that’s you want from Wemby, then Trae’s your guy. He won’t develop beyond a lob threat with the ball in Trae’s hands, though. The archetype heliocentric is a polite way of saying selfish ball hog.

[FutureMan]

Would be fun to watch for a while but then frustrating when you realize they’ll never win anything and turn the ball over 8 times every game. I wonder what championship duo has the most turnovers per game.

[scott]

Why has Atlanta, with a one year exception, been a first round out? Why are they currently 12-18 with no notable injuries? Superstars do better than that. He’s a skinny James Harden who won’t win anything, either, and before you come at me with Wemby, note that he took John Collins, a legit 20/10 guy, and slowly destroyed his game by denying him the ball. A heliocentric guard would be about the worst archetype player to acquire.

You're a big fan of Luka, and the Spurs potentially trying to land him down the road... but his teams have also, with a one year exception, been a first round out. Superstars do better than that?

[CorrectCrusader]

Why has Atlanta, with a one year exception, been a first round out? Why are they currently 12-18 with no notable injuries? Superstars do better than that. He’s a skinny James Harden who won’t win anything, either, and before you come at me with Wemby, note that he took John Collins, a legit 20/10 guy, and slowly destroyed his game by denying him the ball. A heliocentric guard would be about the worst archetype player to acquire.

Nikola Jokic didn't do anything until his side stars got healthy. Be real.

[exstatic]

You're a big fan of Luka, and the Spurs potentially trying to land him down the road... but his teams have also, with a one year exception, been a first round out. Superstars do better than that?

Not the biggest Luka fan. I’d be in favor as a distressed asset and a forced trade at a discount. If it doesn’t work out, you haven’t lost much, and can move on. The poster advocated giving back everything from the DJ trade to get Trae. That’s a mistake you may not be able to recover from.

[exstatic]

Nikola Jokic didn't do anything until his side stars got healthy. Be real.

Who’s injured on Atlanta?

[BatManu20]

Branham is such a dumbass :lmao

[CorrectCrusader]

Who’s injured on Atlanta?

k ur just a trae hater. Lmao

[exstatic]

k ur just a trae hater. Lmao

You’re the one who brought player health into the discussion, vis a vis, jokic and the nuggets.

[Penya]

https://www.nbcsports.com/nba/news/raptors-reportedly-have-no-appetite-for-a-reset-teardown-or-rebuild

Raptors reportedly have “no appetite for a reset, teardown or rebuild”

[scott]

https://www.nbcsports.com/nba/news/raptors-reportedly-have-no-appetite-for-a-reset-teardown-or-rebuild

Raptors reportedly have “no appetite for a reset, teardown or rebuild”

Excellent news. They just have to keep plowing along like they have thus far this season, and then we all stop giving a shit about the Raptors (and maybe steal OG from them in the offseason)

[Frenchfred]

Excellent news. They just have to keep plowing along like they have thus far this season, and then we all stop giving a shit about the Raptors (and maybe steal OG from them in the offseason)

I never understood the deal with OG, what do you see in him? I guess that he is on a friendly contract but he only has one year left and it is a player option so he will expect more money after that.

[spurraider21]

I never understood the deal with OG, what do you see in him? I guess that he is on a friendly contract but he only has one year left and it is a player option so he will expect more money after that.
he's a high end on ball defender who is a capable shooter and a good athlete that can convert at the rim. basically exactly what we need at the 3

he will be expensive though

[exstatic]

I never understood the deal with OG, what do you see in him? I guess that he is on a friendly contract but he only has one year left and it is a player option so he will expect more money after that.

Next year is an option for him, and he will opt out, so he’ll want more money this summer.

I liked him, pre-draft, I liked him on his rookie deal, I even liked him on his extension, but I’m not sure I like him at $30M.

[baseline bum]

Next year is an option for him, and he will opt out, so he’ll want more money this summer.

I liked him, pre-draft, I liked him on his rookie deal, I even liked him on his extension, but I’m not sure I like him at $30M.

I'd love him at $30 million. Too bad he'll cost $45 million.

[Joseph Kony]

You’re the one who brought player health into the discussion, vis a vis, jokic and the nuggets.
I think what he means is that Trae doesnt have any side stars, and even the best player in the NBA needed his side stars to be healthy to make any real noise, so he shouldnt get hate for failing while not having any real legit 2nd/3rd options

Not saying i agree or disagree, but I think that is what CC was getting at

[Frenchfred]

I'd love him at $30 million. Too bad he'll cost $45 million.

He won't get 45 millions.

[exstatic]

I'd love him at $30 million. Too bad he'll cost $45 million.

No one will have that kind of cap room next summer, not even us, and frankly, he’s not worth that if he doesn’t create for himself and others. He’s a 3andD, a very good one, but a support piece.

[CorrectCrusader]

I think what he means is that Trae doesnt have any side stars, and even the best player in the NBA needed his side stars to be healthy to make any real noise, so he shouldnt get hate for failing while not having any real legit 2nd/3rd options

Not saying i agree or disagree, but I think that is what CC was getting at
:bobo

[spurraider21]

Trae is a flawed star, but he's one of the best offensive engines in the league

[exstatic]

I think what he means is that Trae doesnt have any side stars, and even the best player in the NBA needed his side stars to be healthy to make any real noise, so he shouldnt get hate for failing while not having any real legit 2nd/3rd options

Not saying i agree or disagree, but I think that is what CC was getting at

This reminds me of the old arguments about TD/KG, where KG apologists always said he didn’t have the support the TD did,until I pointed out that Starbury, Sczerbiak, and Tom Gugliotta were each All Star selections during his time in Minnesota.

Trae has had support in Collins, who was a 20/10 player when Trae showed up, and in DJ. I mean, they made the ECFs, even if it was a bit of a fluke. Either someone was helping him, or he was the franchise guy, and his game has now slipped to the point where they’re in the lottery.

[Joseph Kony]

This reminds me of the old arguments about TD/KG, where KG apologists always said he didn’t have the support the TD did,until I pointed out that Starbury, Sczerbiak, and Tom Gugliotta were each All Star selections during his time in Minnesota.

Trae has had support in Collins, who was a 20/10 player when Trae showed up, and in DJ. I mean, they made the ECFs, even if it was a bit of a fluke. Either someone was helping him, or he was the franchise guy, and his game has now slipped to the point where they’re in the lottery.

Marbury was an inefficient chucker who wanted out, and the other two were bums. KG is not on the same level as TD regardless, but his FO definitely failed to put any real talent around him for the majority of his tenure, though it can be argued a lot of that was due to his massive contract. not sure AS appearances matter though, considering they are handed out based on team record a lot. imo All-NBA appearances are more important and they have a combined 0 in their careers. not to mention TG and WZ only made 1 allstar appearance each, 5 years apart with no other MIN allstars between them

John Collins sucks, whether he averaged 20/10 or not which means little. DJ is also not a real star and we all know his limitations. I don't think Trae Young is top 10 player or anything but he is a legit star player imho, you don't put up 30/10 like he does if you suck. but there certainly are limitations to building around a 5'10" bomber who plays 0 defense, for sure

[CorrectCrusader]

Marbury was an inefficient chucker who wanted out, and the other two were bums. KG is not on the same level as TD regardless, but his FO definitely failed to put any real talent around him for the majority of his tenure, though it can be argued a lot of that was due to his massive contract. not sure AS appearances matter though, considering they are handed out based on team record a lot. imo All-NBA appearances are more important and they have a combined 0 in their careers. not to mention TG and WZ only made 1 allstar appearance each, 5 years apart with no other MIN allstars between them

John Collins sucks, whether he averaged 20/10 or not which means little. DJ is also not a real star and we all know his limitations. I don't think Trae Young is top 10 player or anything but he is a legit star player imho, you don't put up 30/10 like he does if you suck. but there certainly are limitations to building around a 5'10" bomber who plays 0 defense, for sure

When you have a 7'4 8 foot wingspan menace on your team to shore up defense, you can cover for Trae youngs defensive failings. It would be an all time pairing.

[Joseph Kony]

When you have a 7'4 8 foot wingspan menace on your team to shore up defense, you can cover for Trae youngs defensive failings. It would be an all time pairing.

I agree. Give Trae someone like Wemby and another two way threat on the perimeter and he would look 10x better

[spurraider21]

This reminds me of the old arguments about TD/KG, where KG apologists always said he didn’t have the support the TD did,until I pointed out that Starbury, Sczerbiak, and Tom Gugliotta were each All Star selections during his time in Minnesota.

Trae has had support in Collins, who was a 20/10 player when Trae showed up, and in DJ. I mean, they made the ECFs, even if it was a bit of a fluke. Either someone was helping him, or he was the franchise guy, and his game has now slipped to the point where they’re in the lottery.
marbury was not an all star in his time in minnesota...

and then you cant compare 1x all stars like gugliotta and szczerbiak to robinson, ginobili, parker...

the best go-to argument is just 2003

[Biggems]

I am not pleased with the Charlotte trade. We have 3 straight years of lottery protected picks and then we lose out. That sucks. I could see lottery protected the first year in 2023, but after that, it should have been top 6 protected the last two years. Of course, this year, they are trying hard to be the top pick in the draft. Unfortunately for them, Detroit has cornered the market on shitfest.

I guess we can forget about the Charlotte pick.

Toronto is frustrating. They keeping hovering between the 6-8 worst record in the league. We need them to go on a winning streak of about 5-6 games. That would put them damn near playoff contention at this point of the season.

I want no part of Trae. Yes, he is a damn good player. Yes, he can light up the scoreboard. Yes, he is an alley-oop waiting to happen. However, he is inefficient overall, he is a ball hog, and he plays with heroball mentality. Also, he cannot seem to get along well with any other top players on his team. First it was Collins and now it is Murray. Also, he is kind of undersized, so no thank you.

I also do not want Murray back. He burned his bridges here with his post trade comments about the team and the city. Rot in Shitlanta for all I care.

I am more than happy to keep their picks and use them as golden tickets to possible find a draft gem, or trade for a high caliber player that will compliment Wemby and Vassell.

[exstatic]

I am not pleased with the Charlotte trade. We have 3 straight years of lottery protected picks and then we lose out. That sucks. I could see lottery protected the first year in 2023, but after that, it should have been top 6 protected the last two years. Of course, this year, they are trying hard to be the top pick in the draft. Unfortunately for them, Detroit has cornered the market on shitfest.

I guess we can forget about the Charlotte pick.

Toronto is frustrating. They keeping hovering between the 6-8 worst record in the league. We need them to go on a winning streak of about 5-6 games. That would put them damn near playoff contention at this point of the season.

I want no part of Trae. Yes, he is a damn good player. Yes, he can light up the scoreboard. Yes, he is an alley-oop waiting to happen. However, he is inefficient overall, he is a ball hog, and he plays with heroball mentality. Also, he cannot seem to get along well with any other top players on his team. First it was Collins and now it is Murray. Also, he is kind of undersized, so no thank you.

I also do not want Murray back. He burned his bridges here with his post trade comments about the team and the city. Rot in Shitlanta for all I care.

I am more than happy to keep their picks and use them as golden tickets to possible find a draft gem, or trade for a high caliber player that will compliment Wemby and Vassell.

The Charlotte pick wasn’t acquired from Charlotte, it was literally a throw in to the Dejounte trade. In fact, it was originally traded to NY, who traded it to ATL, who then traded it to us. We got enough good, unprotected assets to take a non lottery first as a sweetener.

Toronto is pretty much exactly where I want them. We have 3 years to get the pick, so I’m willing to risk the chance that they jump into the top 4 against the chance that we get pick 7 or 8 this year. In two years, if we haven’t nabbed the pick yet,I’ll feel differently.

We agree on Trae and the ATL picks.

[NickiRasgo]

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1741146251532603871

[couchman]

Raptors trading Anunoby for Quickley and Barrett.
I think this makes both teams better?
Certainly not a tanking move imo

[LeBowen]

Mastermind Masai went from asking for 4 FRPs to Barrett and Quickly.

If not for Pop and nephew trade, he would've never built a serious playoff roster. Every move since their championship season has been awful.

[couchman]

Maybe we can give them back their FRP for Quickley lol

[onechance87]

i wanted quickley on the spurs....I believe hes about to blow up into stardom...I would
of traded keldon for him and a future 1st rounder for him...guess well see how he does
running the show

[spurraider21]

Raptors not tanking which is good but they’re probably gonna sign Quickley so that’s bad

[BacktoBasics]

Raptors trading Anunoby for Quickley and Barrett.
I think this makes both teams better?
Certainly not a tanking move imo

Knicks giving up a lot of offense for 15ppg. Brunson can’t do everything. Seems like it’s going to weaken their bench quite a bit.

This could work out nicely for the Knicks or go south.

Seems like this move should help the Raptors.

[LeBowen]

Knicks giving up a lot of offense for 15ppg. Brunson can’t do everything. Seems like it’s going to weaken their bench quite a bit.

This could work out nicely for the Knicks or go south.

Seems like this move should help the Raptors.

Barrett is trash and overpaid.
Quickly and Brunson don't work together and they didn't want to spend 20 million a year on backup PG.

If Quickly actually lives up to the hype and becomes a Maxey type of player, then Raptors won the trade.
If not, Knicks got the better deal. OG is just what they needed.

[CorrectCrusader]

Big for us, this makes the raptors better.

[couchman]

Knicks giving up a lot of offense for 15ppg. Brunson can’t do everything. Seems like it’s going to weaken their bench quite a bit.

This could work out nicely for the Knicks or go south.

Seems like this move should help the Raptors.

I hear ya.
If it works for the Knicks it will be because moving Barrett is addition by subtraction.
He’s not good and yet was chucking up a lot of shots.
Anunoby is much more efficient.

Raptors didn’t win this trade on paper, but their roster will be more balanced now and Quickley has star potential.

[scott]

Curious what draft compensation TOR got from this as well. I think this makes both teams better, but we'll see. My guess is that TOR will allow Quickly to shine and they'll definitely get him locked up, so he is off the board for us.

[Leetonidas]

Damn, there goes wish for IQ on the Spurs. Watch him blow up in Toronto

[Big Empty]

Maybe we can give them back their FRP for Quickley lol shit that might not be a bad idea lol

[scott]

While I think IQ will likely be better than whoever we take with the TOR pick, I was kind of hoping we could have something like:

IQ/TOR Pick
Vassell
Own Pick/Johnson
Sochan
Wemby/Collins

I feel much better about the PGs in this draft class if they are in a backup role where they can develop rather than having them learn how to be an NBA player as the starter. That would allow us to take the best 2, 3, or 4 with our own pick. We'll still have tons of draft capital to make future picks or make a big trade if one avails itself. Oh well.

I do think TOR will likely view IQ the same way we do and he'll have a chance to shine in TOR. I think they'd want more than just their own pick back.

[scott]

If TOR valued OG at 3-4 picks, then the inference is that they value IQ+RJ at 3-4 picks (since they only got an additional SRP in the deal). There is no way they are just going to give IQ away for cheap.

[scott]

Just noticed the Knicks also got Precious. That's decent bench big depth.

[BacktoBasics]

I hear ya.
If it works for the Knicks it will be because moving Barrett is addition by subtraction.
He’s not good and yet was chucking up a lot of shots.
Anunoby is much more efficient.

Raptors didn’t win this trade on paper, but their roster will be more balanced now and Quickley has star potential.

I hadn’t followed the Knicks. Just was aware of the offensive production of Barrett. This looks like a better move for the Knicks than I thought. Seems the consensus on Barrett is that he’d be better suited as 20-25 mpg offensive spark rather than a legitimate 2nd or 3rd option.

[onechance87]

I hadn’t followed the Knicks. Just was aware of the offensive production of Barrett. This looks like a better move for the Knicks than I thought. Seems the consensus on Barrett is that he’d be better suited as 20-25 mpg offensive spark rather than a legitimate 2nd or 3rd option.

raptors won this trade....iq gonna average 20 plus a game and a is good defender...hes what we needed
now and for the future....Would of been nice to paired him up with wemby to grow together

[scott]

The more I think about it, yeah I'd give TOR their pick back for IQ. He'll have a better career than the majority of the players drafted 7-12 in this year's draft. In fact, if you drafted a guy who turned out as good as IQ in that range, you'd consider that a success.

Another way of looking at it: would you have traded Jak straight up for IQ? I would have in a heartbeat.

Nonetheless, I don't think TOR will be interested in moving him.

[spurraider21]

Knicks giving up a lot of offense for 15ppg. Brunson can’t do everything. Seems like it’s going to weaken their bench quite a bit.

This could work out nicely for the Knicks or go south.

Seems like this move should help the Raptors.
the thibs special. sacrificing a lot of offense for some defense

[Extra Stout]

Spurs didn’t need IQ

We like what we have

I’m so proud of this team’s character

There are so many things more important than basketball

Losing basketball games is nothing compared to what the people of Gaza have lost

Stop complaining about losses. We’re better than that.

[baseline bum]

Big for us, this makes the raptors better.

Would have rather just fucking traded for Quickley or Anunoby. Well there goes two biggest ways this team could have gotten a lot better. I guess now it's going to come down to if they can draft Topic and if Topic is Chris Paul and not Ricky Rubio.

[baseline bum]

While I think IQ will likely be better than whoever we take with the TOR pick

Probably better than who they take with their own pick too based on the Primo, Sochan, Branham, and Wesley picks.

[baseline bum]

Spurs didn’t need IQ

We like what we have

I’m so proud of this team’s character

There are so many things more important than basketball

Losing basketball games is nothing compared to what the people of Gaza have lost

Stop complaining about losses. We’re better than that.

Didn't need Anunoby either. We're proud of the way Sochan's leaving three point shooters open.

[exstatic]

Mastermind Masai went from asking for 4 FRPs to Barrett and Quickly.

If not for Pop and nephew trade, he would've never built a serious playoff roster. Every move since their championship season has been awful.

…and draft considerations. They haven’t been named yet, but NY still has two FRPs from OKCs boneheaded Ousaman Dieng trade.

[baseline bum]

…and draft considerations. They haven’t been named yet, but NY still has two FRPs from OKCs boneheaded Ousaman Dieng trade.

1741148361355301040

[baseline bum]

This is an absolute failure letting Anunoby and Quickley both get to teams where they fit and are going to get paid. They were the two best chances the Spurs had to improve the team and both options have dried up. There is no point guard in free agency to go after and no defensive ace to replace Johnson's tired ass with. Unless you think Maxey is turning down a max contract from Philly to come to a maybe 15 win team in small market San Antonio.

[scott]

This is an absolute failure letting Anunoby and Quickley both get to teams where they fit and are going to get paid. They were the two best chances the Spurs had to improve the team and both options have dried up. There is no point guard in free agency to go after and no defensive ace to replace Johnson's tired ass with. Unless you think Maxey is turning down a max contract from Philly to come to a maybe 15 win team in small market San Antonio.

But but but but think of all the talent we'll have with Top 5 picks for the next 5 years, by then I'm sure Darko Topic will be ready to contribute.

[CGD]

This is an absolute failure letting Anunoby and Quickley both get to teams where they fit and are going to get paid. They were the two best chances the Spurs had to improve the team and both options have dried up. There is no point guard in free agency to go after and no defensive ace to replace Johnson's tired ass with. Unless you think Maxey is turning down a max contract from Philly to come to a maybe 15 win team in small market San Antonio.

Settle down bro, neither of those guys are worth the money it would have taken to get/keep them here. OG is just living off hype— if he was that good his team would be playoff bound? Quickly, who I like, still has may question marks as a lead guard.

[rascal]

This is an absolute failure letting Anunoby and Quickley both get to teams where they fit and are going to get paid. They were the two best chances the Spurs had to improve the team and both options have dried up. There is no point guard in free agency to go after and no defensive ace to replace Johnson's tired ass with. Unless you think Maxey is turning down a max contract from Philly to come to a maybe 15 win team in small market San Antonio.

The Spurs have had a history of sitting back and just watching other teams make trades. Seldom do they bring in a top starting level player through a trade and forget about getting a player with a draft day trade. Spurs are too conservative to pull the trigger on major trades on draft day.

San Antonio is a scared front office. Let's play it safe and do nothing to upgrade the roster with the selling point, "To See What We Have On The Roster With Wemby".

[CGD]

^ the spurs have made manor trades each of the last two trade deadlines, and two others over the summers (DDR, DJ). They have been anything but scared in recent years.

[rascal]

^ the spurs have made manor trades each of the last two trade deadlines, and two others over the summers (DDR, DJ). They have been anything but scared in recent years.

DDR they were forced into that trade( and even took too long to make a trade) and DJ was unloading for the tank last year

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

DDR they were forced into that trade( and even took too long to make a trade) and DJ was unloading for the tank last year

:lol Forced how exactly? They acquired a few picks for an unrestricted free agent ffs it was a masterful and creative trade if I ever saw one.

[rascal]

:lol Forced how exactly? They acquired a few picks for an unrestricted free agent ffs it was a masterful and creative trade if I ever saw one.

Yes forced, because KL wanted out. I was looking at when they got DDR.

But if you want to say they trade for draft picks then yes those are the trades they make but not for current players.

[spurraider21]

:lol Forced how exactly? They acquired a few picks for an unrestricted free agent ffs it was a masterful and creative trade if I ever saw one.
There’s nothing creative about a sign and trade. They happen all the time and are standard operating procedure. The spurs should just be glad that Derozan wanted to go to a team that didn’t have cap space. Could have just been a durant to warriors or Vanvleet situation where no sign and trade was needed

[TD 21]

Smart trade by the Knicks, who it didn't make sense from their/his side to re-sign Quickley anyway and in the process they salary dump Barrett while parting with little draft equity. Anunoby is overrated, but still fills a significant need.

Given that Barnes and Barrett will handle the ball a lot anyway, Quickley is a good fit for the Craptors, but Barrett isn't good and instead of getting draft capital to re-build now, they're trying to middle build which is likely to keep them mired in mediocrity.

[baseline bum]

Settle down bro, neither of those guys are worth the money it would have taken to get/keep them here. OG is just living off hype— if he was that good his team would be playoff bound? Quickly, who I like, still has may question marks as a lead guard.

Quickley was asking for $25 million a year.

[Harry Callahan]

I think it will be hard now for Toronto to not convey a pick in the next couple of years, which will be helpful.

Keep in mind SA has TONs of upcoming second round picks which can be used/combined to turn into picks between 20 and 30 (contenders trying to conserve cap space). Those picks could be Overaged (21-22 YO) 3 or 4 year college players who have actually been taught how to play the game prior to arriving in the NBA - the way it used to be. These types of players will fill out the back part of the bench in the coming years. Samaki Walkers son was a very low second round pick (#57) last draft. He looked really good last night.

Unfortunately, all of this has to wait on a timeline that is not terrific. Winning 4 out of every 25 games sucks right now. Moral victories and baby steps of improvement don't work for those seeking instant gratification. The is the beginning of a long road.

Wemby sure seems to be a worthwhile reward for some historically bad Spurs basketball - things need to get put in order soon from a coaching, roster, and front office standpoint. Coaching changes and FO changes will come soon if the roster does not improve markedly in the next 12-24 months.

[DAF86]

Smart trade by the Knicks, who it didn't make sense from their/his side to re-sign Quickley anyway and in the process they salary dump Barrett while parting with little draft equity. Anunoby is overrated, but still fills a significant need.

Given that Barnes and Barrett will handle the ball a lot anyway, Quickley is a good fit for the Craptors, but Barrett isn't good and instead of getting draft capital to re-build now, they're trying to middle build which is likely to keep them mired in mediocrity.

Which is great for us.

[CGD]

DDR they were forced into that trade( and even took too long to make a trade) and DJ was unloading for the tank last year

I mean, you’re just moving goalposts but whatever. Point is: spurs have been very active on the trade front in recent years including at the deadline. they’ve just done so to (smartly) stock pile valuable draft assets, as opposed to the next player people on this forum would be bitching about lol

[CorrectCrusader]

This is an absolute failure letting Anunoby and Quickley both get to teams where they fit and are going to get paid. They were the two best chances the Spurs had to improve the team and both options have dried up. There is no point guard in free agency to go after and no defensive ace to replace Johnson's tired ass with. Unless you think Maxey is turning down a max contract from Philly to come to a maybe 15 win team in small market San Antonio.

OG was dead set on getting to New York my guy, his agent is the Knicks presidents son.
If you wanted Quickley you would've had to offer more value than OG Anunoby, which I am frankly glad we didn't do.

[scott]

Of all the things to criticize this FO about in the last few years, failing to be active enough in the trade market is not one of them.

[poopbox]

I don't think the spurs have any players that anybody else wants other than Wemby, so regardless of what we might think of Quickly, RJ, or OG (each would instantly be the second best player on our team) it's no way we could trade for that caliber of player without lots of 1st round picks being involved.

[rascal]

I mean, you’re just moving goalposts but whatever. Point is: spurs have been very active on the trade front in recent years including at the deadline. they’ve just done so to (smartly) stock pile valuable draft assets, as opposed to the next player people on this forum would be bitching about lol

What goal posts have been moved? Go back and read what I wrote. Spurs don't make trades for impact players. They unload players for draft picks. Those are the trades they make.

[TrainOfThought5]

Big for us, this makes the raptors better.

yes but how much better. I was really hoping we could land the 7th or 8th spot with TOR pick?

[CGD]

^ I would say this trade ups the chances the pick conveys this year.

[rascal]

^ I would say this trade ups the chances the pick conveys this year.

Don't count on it just yet. If Toronto is hanging around the 6-10 draft position from the bottom they can still tank down the stretch like Portland did.

[mo7888]

Don't count on it just yet. If Toronto is hanging around the 6-10 draft position from the bottom they can still tank down the stretch like Portland did.

It's going to be very difficult to 'out tank' the tanking teams ahead of them. I could see them falling to 6 and then its just the luck of the draw.

[John B]

yes but how much better. I was really hoping we could land the 7th or 8th spot with TOR pick?

the closer TOR get to top 6, the chances of the pick not conveying however minuscule the percentage. I’d rather TOR get better but not out of lottery

[exstatic]

the closer TOR get to top 6, the chances of the pick not conveying however minuscule the percentage. I’d rather TOR get better but not out of lottery

If Toronto finishes in the #6 spot, the lottery odds of us keeping the pick are 54.1%. If they finish at the #7 spot, the odds of us keeping the pick are 69%. If they are at #8, the odds are 73.8%. They are currently at #7. I want the pick, but the best scenario is to have it convey in a year when they’re struggling, and that comes with some risk. Since they have 3 years to get the pick, I’m OK with the risk so that it becomes a top 10 pick. I’ll be less risk tolerant if we don’t get it the first two years.

[scott]

Just from an asset management perspective, it would be best for us if the pick conveys this year, as we already have two guaranteed picks next year (ours, ATL) and a potential 3rd (CHI) and 4th (CHA).

Assuming the CHA pick never conveys, best case scenario is that TOR conveys this year, and CHI doesn't convey until 2026. That would mean we have two FRPs in the next 4 drafts.