***** The Official 2014 Avante Football Thread *****

[Avante]

Yep, by popular demand.

It's all up to you if this works or not, if things are cool here's where I'll be, if it's the same old shit, fuck it....ok? If all goes well this will be my only thread this season.

So who will be the most productive "undrafted" rookie in 2014?

Keep an eye on Olympic sprinter Jeff Demps at Tampa Bay, when he...finally...takes a handoff/pitch out he will become the fastest running back in NFL history with his 10.01.

Too bad they dumped the....NFL's Fastest Man...competition. I'd love to see Trindon Holliday, Demps and Jacoby Ford go at it.

[Clipper Nation]

It's all up to you if this works or not, if things are cool here's where I'll be, if it's the same old shit, fuck it....ok?

^ Already setting up his excuse to go back to spamming the same old threads

[Avante]

^ Already setting up his excuse to go back to spamming the same old threads

Why not just be cool?

Here I am making every effort to...fit in...with nobody having to come here...ok?

Ok I'm just fucking around with that idiot CN about the great RW. Today is March 25 when the guy has another great season I'll bring the little shit here, so he knows I was right...AGAIN!

[johnsmith]

I like it avante.

I will even start...

With an improved defense, if the Broncos can stay healthy, I see no reason for them to not return to the Super Bowl...shit, they could even compete this time...thoughts?

[Avante]

I like it avante.

I will even start...

With an improved defense, if the Broncos can stay healthy, I see no reason for them to not return to the Super Bowl...shit, they could even compete this time...thoughts?

They do play the NFC West this season, which is a whole other beast than the NFC East which they played last season. Now add the fact their division (the second best) is tough. Now add games..at..Cinncy (late) and NE. They have a very hard road to travel.

Yes the additions of DeMarcus Ware, Aqib Talib, and the return of Von Miller will help a defense ranked 19th. But, can they run/stuff the run? They weren't too proficient in either in 2013. And...Moreno is better than anyone they now have.

With no Moreno or Decker, a far tougher schedule I can't see any reason to see them as anything other than being in the playoff mix (meaning no bye week or homefield). Then there's that....teams that lose a Superbowl.... jinx going on.

I own a pro gamblers guide, in it all these pros made their picks, the consenses (16 of them)....New England vs Niners.

[johnsmith]

They do play the NFC West this season, which is a whole other beast than the NFC East which they played last season. Now add the fact their division (the second best) is tough. Now add games..at..Cinncy (late) and NE. They have a very hard road to travel.

Yes the additions of DeMarcus Ware, Aqib Talib, and the return of Von Miller will help a defense ranked 19th. But, can they run/stuff the run? They weren't too proficient in either in 2013. And...Moreno is better than anyone they now have.

With no Moreno or Decker, a far tougher schedule I can't see any reason to see them as anything other than being in the playoff mix (meaning no bye week or homefield). Then there's that....teams that lose a Superbowl.... jinx going on.

I own a pro gamblers guide, in it all these pros made their picks, the consenses (16 of them)....New England vs Niners.


Agreed...on paper though, the AFC boils down to NE vs Den in my opinion...but that's strictly on paper and prior to anything so that means pretty much dick...I do wonder which AFC team will have the miraculous turnaround that seems to happen each season.

I honestly have no clue in the NFC...on paper it's Sea and SF no doubt but I've seen a lot of talk about Philly, which for some reason I can't picture.

[johnsmith]

Too bad they dumped the....NFL's Fastest Man...competition. I'd love to see Trindon Holliday, Demps and Jacoby Ford go at it.

I feel like Holliday would fumble at some point during the race.

[Avante]

Agreed...on paper though, the AFC boils down to NE vs Den in my opinion...but that's strictly on paper and prior to anything so that means pretty much dick...I do wonder which AFC team will have the miraculous turnaround that seems to happen each season.

I honestly have no clue in the NFC...on paper it's Sea and SF no doubt but I've seen a lot of talk about Philly, which for some reason I can't picture.

The Bengals could be the team keeping Denver or NE out of it. They do everything well...

Dalton a 4000 yard passer
AJ Green a 1400 receiver
Bernard and The Law Firm are solid backs (rookie Jeremy Hill a stud)
The number 10 offense
The number 3 defense
They lost three games in 2013 by a combined 8 points
A plus 14 in the very important sacks/sacked
A plus 1 in the TO margin

They have no weaknesses. They win the TO battle, can run/stuff the run, pressure the QB and protect their;s. That's what wins in the NFL.

As far as a surprise AFC team goes.....the Houston Texans.They weren't nearly as bad as their record, losing 4 games by a combined 12 points. They were ranked...11 on offense and 7 on defense. What killed them was that minus 20 in the TO margin, that is horrendous.

The NFC has gotta be Seahawks vs Niners.*** They are the two most talented teams in the conference. If there is a darkhorse....The Packers. They could go 6-0 in the division, and have a very manageable schedule.

*** these two teams are in the same "spot" as the Broncos when it comes to playing a tough schedule, but....they do have far better defenses.

[Aztecfan03]

They do play the NFC West this season, which is a whole other beast than the NFC East which they played last season. Now add the fact their division (the second best) is tough. Now add games..at..Cinncy (late) and NE. They have a very hard road to travel.

Yes the additions of DeMarcus Ware, Aqib Talib, and the return of Von Miller will help a defense ranked 19th. But, can they run/stuff the run? They weren't too proficient in either in 2013. And...Moreno is better than anyone they now have.

With no Moreno or Decker, a far tougher schedule I can't see any reason to see them as anything other than being in the playoff mix (meaning no bye week or homefield). Then there's that....teams that lose a Superbowl.... jinx going on.

I own a pro gamblers guide, in it all these pros made their picks, the consenses (16 of them)....New England vs Niners.

Even with the tough schedule, i can't see Denver not getting a bye unless the Chargers get it.

[Avante]

Even with the tough schedule, i can't see Denver not getting a bye unless the Chargers get it.

How about Cinncy?

I'm not knocking the Broncos, but damn, they have to play the two best divisions in the game. Other than playing the Raiders twice and Buffalo*** there isn't a pushover anywhere on their slat. A brutal road trek....Seattle, KC, SD, NE, Cinncy, St.Louis...ouch~~~

*** I do think they will be much improved.

[Avante]

I feel like Holliday would fumble at some point during the race.

Hahaha~~~~~

What a shame, the guy has talent.

[Avante]

It's real easy to see that Johnny Football simply has.."it". Anyone not seeing this doesn't understand the game.

So who can tell me the name of another stud Texas A&M QB?

[Aztecfan03]

How about Cinncy?

I'm not knocking the Broncos, but damn, they have to play the two best divisions in the game. Other than playing the Raiders twice and Buffalo*** there isn't a pushover anywhere on their slat. A brutal road trek....Seattle, KC, SD, NE, Cinncy, St.Louis...ouch~~~

*** I do think they will be much improved.

possibly i guess.

[Avante]

Those moving up the lists.

If Andre Johnson catchs 63 passes he will enter the exclusive 1000 receptions club. Those in that club.

Jerry Rice Miss Valley St
Tony Gonzalez Cal
Marvin Harrison Syracuse
Chris Carter Ohio State
Tim Brown ND
Terrell Owens Chattanooga
Isacc Bruce Memphis St
Reggie Wayne Miami
Hines Ward Georgia

If Reggie Wayne has 444 yards he'll enter the exclusive 14, 000 yards club. Those already there...

Jerry Rice
Terrell Owens
Randy Moss Marshall
Isacc Bruce
Tony Gonzalez
Tim Brown
Marvin Harrison
James Lofton Stanford

Adrian Peterson needs 9 TD's to enter the not so exclusive (a ton in it) 100 td club. Too many to list.

Steven Jackson the only current running back close to the exclusive 12,000 yards rushing club. He'll need a couple more seasons.

Tom Brady only needs a couple thousand yards to join...

Brett Favre So. Miss
Peyton Manning Tenn
Dan Marino Pitt
John Elway Stanford
Drew Brees Purdue

...in the 51,000 yards passing club.

Peyton Maanning will become the All Time TD king sometme before turkeyday. He has 491, Brett Favre holds the record with 508.

Speaking of Jerry Rice.

I first picked up on him reading the Fresno Bee sports page when he was at MVS. They listed all the college football scores, there was MVS 70 TSU 24, MVS 84 Jackson St 32, MVS 64 Grambling 28, obviously I was thinking.....what the fuck? Then I found an article in a magazine about what was going on there.

They ran a true spread formation, QB Willie Totten stood back there in the shotgun in a five wide receiver set. Only time they brought in a running back (who would wanna be their RB?) was in short yardage/goal line. That season I'm talking about was Rices senior one, they broke all kinds of scoring records. (not to be confused with those Michigan teams of the early 1900's, they had a 5 year period where they scored over 2000 points giving up...32,...and only lost once...2-0). There was mention of Jerry Rice being the star receiver at MVS, but that was it.

Then I finally saw him play in the Blue Grey Game, here it was schools like MVS in with the SEC, ACC, etc. Rice stold the show, he was on a whole other level and it was obvious.

His NFL records of...

208 tds
22, 896 yards
1, 549 receptions

....are so far out they might never be broken, no current players even in the same time zone.

The closest current players

Adian Peterson 91 tds
Reggie Wayne 13, 566 yards
Reggie Wayne 1, 006 receptions

[Avante]

Keep an eye on the Packers Jeff Janis a 6-3 220 4.4 receiver. A seventh round pick largely due to the fact he played at tiny Saginaw Valley State.

When NFL teams waste a precious draft pick on guys from these rinkydinky schools there is a real good reason.

[DD]

Baltimore Ravens are winning the SB--the AFC at the very least

[Avante]

Baltimore Ravens are winning the SB--the AFC at the very least

Ok, lets break it down....

They had the 29th ranked offense, they couldn't run the ball at all. They had the 12th ranked defense, but did nothing outstanding.

They lost the very important sacks/sacked stat 40-48 or minus 8.

In the ultra important TO stat a weak...minus 5.

They had no back average over 3.1.....THREE POINT ONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That might be the worst ever.

Flacco threw more INT's than TD's.

Ok man, so we just ignore all of that? So, it's all going to get better in 2014?

Ok, explain to me what you are looking at. Sell me on a Ravens SB win..or...the AFC at least.

[Avante]

The little man in pro football (inspired dy Dri Archer and DeAnthony Thomas)

History is full of little guys excelling in pro football, the first "great" black running back was 5-4 170 pound Claude "Buddy" Young, who was a world class sprinter winning both the NCAA and the USA Nationals. The guy was a blurr and had all the moves. He was out of Illinois.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZA0g_sQcqY


Nolan "Super Gnat" Smith (the fast footballer in the movie M*A*S*H) was a great kick return for the Chiefs. He was out of Tennessee State.

Howard Stevens all 5-5 165 pounds of him left Louisville as the all time leading rusher in NCAA history, he'd have a decent career with the Saints. In a word.....quick!

Billy "White Shoes" Johnson was totally amazing at Widener College, and had a great career with the Oilers.

Cecil Turner was a 9.3 guy while at CPSLO, he was a dynamic kick returner for the Bears.


Then there was...

Walter "The Flea" Roberts SJS/Browns
Lionel "Little Train" James Auburn/Chargers
Warren McVea Houston/Chiefs
Gerald McNeil Baylor/Oilers...137 pounds


All those listed under 5-10 180 pounds.

Guys that size are on a whole other...quicks....level than the 200 pounders. They get going quicker, stop and start quicker. I expect to see both Archer and Thomas make impacts in 2014, hell, they already have.

[Pelicans78]

Niners are a declining team.

The NFC is boiling down between whether the Seahawks or Saints get homefield. Basically, the Saints added the next Marvin Harrison when they drafted Cooks. Both Ingram and Robinson will lead a potent running attack thanks to a very underrated o-line and then you add in Brees, Graham, and Colston, this offense will move the ball and score points week in and week out. Plus you improved the secondary on an already top 5 defense that feature 3 elite pass rushers and two big run stuffers as well as an underrated LBer core, this team appears loaded. With all of their toughest games outside of the division at home, this team has the potential to be a 13 win team with a great chance at homefield in the NFC. Notwithstanding injuries of course.

[Avante]

Niners are a declining team.

The NFC is boiling down between whether the Seahawks or Saints get homefield. Basically, the Saints added the next Marvin Harrison when they drafted Cooks. Both Ingram and Robinson will lead a potent running attack thanks to a very underrated o-line and then you add in Brees, Graham, and Colston, this offense will move the ball and score points week in and week out. Plus you improved the secondary on an already top 5 defense that feature 3 elite pass rushers and two big run stuffers as well as an underrated LBer core, this team appears loaded. With all of their toughest games outside of the division at home, this team has the potential to be a 13 win team with a great chance at homefield in the NFC. Notwithstanding injuries of course.

I'm not one of those that.....my team is the best because I like them. We aren't as good as the Seahawks and a very strong case can be made for your Saints being better also. They do look impressive for 2014.

But.....the Niners are one of the top 4 teams in the NFC, I doubt anyone would argue that. We have upgraded both the receiver/running back positions, already have the best o-line in the league and one of the top 4 defenses. Any team that has that sort of fire power can beat anyone, all it takes is a couple turnovers.

Looking at the Saints schedule, hmmmmm?....I can see a 12-4 and that Niner game could be a biggie because I also see the Niners going 12-4.

The bigggest difference between the two teams is Brees vs Kaepernick, obviously Brees is on a whole other level.

[Avante]

There is a kid at Oklahoma State this season named Tyreek Hill, he will be the fastest player in college this season. A Big12 sprint champ and a 10.1*** guy. He's spent the last two seasons at Garden City JC, yep...he's a junior. Keep and eye on this guy, he's also elusive and has quicks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oc39FH39dMo

I know.....but this is an NFL forum. I won't make a habit of this.


*** when the great USSR sprinter Valery Borzov won the Olympic 100m in 1972...10.14.

[Pelicans78]

I'm not one of those that.....my team is the best because I like them. We aren't as good as the Seahawks and a very strong case can be made for your Saints being better also. They do look impressive for 2014.

But.....the Niners are one of the top 4 teams in the NFC, I doubt anyone would argue that. We have upgraded both the receiver/running back positions, already have the best o-line in the league and one of the top 4 defenses. Any team that has that sort of fire power can beat anyone, all it takes is a couple turnovers.

Looking at the Saints schedule, hmmmmm?....I can see a 12-4 and that Niner game could be a biggie because I also see the Niners going 12-4.

The bigggest difference between the two teams is Brees vs Kaepernick, obviously Brees is on a whole other level.

I was joking about the Niners declining. They're top 3 in the NFC right now and I like Kaepernick more than others.

One of my concerns about the Niners will be their defense. Its still very good, but will they play at that elite level in years past. Also, how much help will Kaepernick need/get from the running game. Still overall, they're very good and the Saints will have to play a clean game to get a sure win even at home.

Really, the Hawks and Niners have impacted the Saints philosophy the last two seasons. Payton brought in a more physical athletic defense with the help of Rob Ryan, and he's brining a more potent running game to bring alot more balance to the offense. He knows the high-scoring passing game schtick doesn't work against those two teams. Ask the Broncos.

[Avante]

I was joking about the Niners declining. They're top 3 in the NFC right now and I like Kaepernick more than others.

One of my concerns about the Niners will be their defense. Its still very good, but will they play at that elite level in years past. Also, how much help will Kaepernick need/get from the running game. Still overall, they're very good and the Saints will have to play a clean game to get a sure win even at home.

Really, the Hawks and Niners have impacted the Saints philosophy the last two seasons. Payton brought in a more physical athletic defense with the help of Rob Ryan, and he's brining a more potent running game to bring alot more balance to the offense. He knows the high-scoring passing game schtick doesn't work against those two teams. Ask the Broncos.

As we;ve been seeing lately that old formula of.....run the ball/stuff the run (which puts an offense in third and long) and win the TO battle is what wins in the NFL. It really is about the big guys.

Seahawks were 4 in rushing/7th in defending the rush and a plus 20 TO margin.
Niners were 3 in rushing/4 in defending the run and a plus 12 TO margin.

Seahawks 26 in passing
Niners 30 in passing

As we've seen these are the two heavyweights in the NFC lately. And it is because they play a physical brand of football.

But...

When you have a QB like a Drew Brees who is one of the all time greats you can play a different brand of football, how many teams have a guy that caliber? With a Jimmy Graham you don't need to play that smash mouth brand to the same degree. Why not take advantage of a fantastic QB/TE combo?

I know...preseason...but Mark Ingram looks beastly.

[Blizzardwizard]

Saints will beat the Seahawks in the NFC championship game. Rodgers and Kaep will fight for 3rd best in the conference.

[Avante]

Saints will beat the Seahawks in the NFC championship game. Rodgers and Kaep will fight for 3rd best in the conference.

And you base that opinion on what? Go ahead elaborate.

[Blizzardwizard]

And you base that opinion on what? Go ahead elaborate.

If you insist, lord A.Vante.

I don't believe in that super bowl curse crap, but I do believe that the Seahawks will be 'found out' this year. I'm not a fan of their Running back group, nor do I believe Percy Harvin will last a whole season. They lost a lot of good players in the offseason and didn't strengthen too well. They had a lot of luck with health last year it seems extremely unlikely they'll make it through another whole year without at least one key injury. Add in the fact that the NFC as a whole will be a lot stronger this year with the return of Rodgers and the Saints being stronger in general means that getting to the Super Bowl will be tougher than getting there and winning the whole thing last year for the Seahawks. Officials are clamping down on defensive holding meaning that their aggressive to say the least secondary won't continue to get away with roughing up the opponents receivers.

A much improved Saints defense and multiple weapons being added to their offense I think trumps what the Hawks have got to offer. Brees is a much more effective passer than Wilson, and now with the stricter rules I don't see how he can't carve any defense open. I'd much rather have a fired up Mark Ingram than an old tired complaining Marshawn Lynch. Brandin Cooks and Marques Colston on separate sides have much more to offer in my opinion than the Seahawks outlets. Did I mention the best TE/WR hybrid and one of the best pass catchers in football Jimmy Graham? Do the Seahawks have a version, or anything even close to a Jimmy Graham? Nope. Top that off with a top 3 safety, a smart coach, a great DL and you've got yourself a winner.

[spurraider21]

If you insist, lord A.Vante.

I don't believe in that super bowl curse crap, but I do believe that the Seahawks will be 'found out' this year. I'm not a fan of their Running back group, nor do I believe Percy Harvin will last a whole season. They lost a lot of good players in the offseason and didn't strengthen too well. They had a lot of luck with health last year it seems extremely unlikely they'll make it through another whole year without at least one key injury. Add in the fact that the NFC as a whole will be a lot stronger this year with the return of Rodgers and the Saints being stronger in general means that getting to the Super Bowl will be tougher than getting there and winning the whole thing last year for the Seahawks. Officials are clamping down on defensive holding meaning that their aggressive to say the least secondary won't continue to get away with roughing up the opponents receivers.

A much improved Saints defense and multiple weapons being added to their offense I think trumps what the Hawks have got to offer. Brees is a much more effective passer than Wilson, and now with the stricter rules I don't see how he can't carve any defense open. I'd much rather have a fired up Mark Ingram than an old tired complaining Marshawn Lynch. Brandin Cooks and Marques Colston on separate sides have much more to offer in my opinion than the Seahawks outlets. Did I mention the best TE/WR hybrid and one of the best pass catchers in football Jimmy Graham? Do the Seahawks have a version, or anything even close to a Jimmy Graham? Nope. Top that off with a top 3 safety, a smart coach, a great DL and you've got yourself a winner.
i guess their Left Tackle (Okung), Center (Unger), 2 best WR's (Harvin and Rice), and #2 corner (Browner) missing huge chunks of the season was them being lucky with injuries

[Blizzardwizard]

i guess their Left Tackle (Okung), Center (Unger), 2 best WR's (Harvin and Rice), and #2 corner (Browner) missing huge chunks of the season was them being lucky with injuries

Well if that's unlucky than I have no idea what I'd call the Chargers injury list last year.. Plus Harvin came back when it actually mattered.

[spurraider21]

Well if that's unlucky than I have no idea what I'd call the Chargers injury list last year.. Plus Harvin came back when it actually mattered.
i dont have the seahawks entire injury list on hand, but those are the notable ones i recall. i wouldn't call that having good luck with injuries. having your 2 best linemen down as a running team is pretty bad. having your #2 corner out when you face the Saints and Broncos in the postseason isn't good luck either. i think you just missed on the injury point tbh

[Blizzardwizard]

i dont have the seahawks entire injury list on hand, but those are the notable ones i recall. i wouldn't call that having good luck with injuries. having your 2 best linemen down as a running team is pretty bad. having your #2 corner out when you face the Saints and Broncos in the postseason isn't good luck either. i think you just missed on the injury point tbh

Ok fine, you win. Still waiting for Lord A.Vante to weigh in on the rest of my point..

[Aztecfan03]

Well if that's unlucky than I have no idea what I'd call the Chargers injury list last year.. Plus Harvin came back when it actually mattered.

The Chargers were beyond unlucky last year which is partly why they should be better this year despite a tough schedule.

[Pelicans78]

i guess their Left Tackle (Okung), Center (Unger), 2 best WR's (Harvin and Rice), and #2 corner (Browner) missing huge chunks of the season was them being lucky with injuries

Every team has their laundry list of injuries. I don't think Seattle's was as bad as people make it out to be.

[spurraider21]

Every team has their laundry list of injuries. I don't think Seattle's was as bad as people make it out to be.
I also don't think they were blessed with a fortunate season regarding injuries, as blizzard was making it sound like

[Blizzardwizard]

I also don't think they were blessed with a fortunate season regarding injuries, as blizzard was making it sound like

I wasn't making out they had good luck, I was just saying they didn't have bad luck..

[Blizzardwizard]

Wait, I did make out that they did have good luck. Eh, what'ya gonna do.

[Avante]

If you insist, lord A.Vante.

I don't believe in that super bowl curse crap, but I do believe that the Seahawks will be 'found out' this year. I'm not a fan of their Running back group, nor do I believe Percy Harvin will last a whole season. They lost a lot of good players in the offseason and didn't strengthen too well. They had a lot of luck with health last year it seems extremely unlikely they'll make it through another whole year without at least one key injury. Add in the fact that the NFC as a whole will be a lot stronger this year with the return of Rodgers and the Saints being stronger in general means that getting to the Super Bowl will be tougher than getting there and winning the whole thing last year for the Seahawks. Officials are clamping down on defensive holding meaning that their aggressive to say the least secondary won't continue to get away with roughing up the opponents receivers.

A much improved Saints defense and multiple weapons being added to their offense I think trumps what the Hawks have got to offer. Brees is a much more effective passer than Wilson, and now with the stricter rules I don't see how he can't carve any defense open. I'd much rather have a fired up Mark Ingram than an old tired complaining Marshawn Lynch. Brandin Cooks and Marques Colston on separate sides have much more to offer in my opinion than the Seahawks outlets. Did I mention the best TE/WR hybrid and one of the best pass catchers in football Jimmy Graham? Do the Seahawks have a version, or anything even close to a Jimmy Graham? Nope. Top that off with a top 3 safety, a smart coach, a great DL and you've got yourself a winner.

The Seahawks did suffer some key injuries in 2013 and still prevailed.

What really hurts in 2014 is the loss of Bryant and Clemons, there goes 16 sacks....ouch~~~~ Now add the fact everyone will be gunning for them this season.

Russell Wilson should be better this season and if Harvin can stay health and speedster Paul Robinson is the real deal they have enought to make it work (Doug Baldwin). No team in the league has as many big powerful backs has the Seahawks, they have five backs over 220 pounds and then Lynch at 215. They can pound the rock.

Their defensive backfield without a doubt the best in the league. The backers as a group right there with the Niners and Carolina.

I see a team that shouldn't miss a beat if they can find some pass rushers. Yes that is a big deal.


The Saints were great in that all important sacks/sacked stat a plus 12. But....not so hot in the run/stuff the run in the lower half of the league in both.

All three of these teams, Hawks, Niners, Saints, are close enought to where injuries/turnovers could be the deciding factors.

A very realistic debate between these three teams.

[Avante]

The Chargers were beyond unlucky last year which is partly why they should be better this year despite a tough schedule.

They did lose three games by a combined 6 points.

[Avante]

While here....

According to a ranking system put out by LINDY'S (they do know what they are doing)

They have this heading into the season

The Top 10

1.Seattle 73
2.Niners 70.5
2.Indy 70.5
4.Denver 69.5
4.New Orleans 69.5
4.Packers 69.5
7.Pats 69.0
7.Arizona 69.0
7.Baltimore 69.0
10Cinncy 68
10St.Louis 68

Look at that NFC West

[Aztecfan03]

They did lose three games by a combined 6 points.

I meant injury wise. Those losses were just shitting the bed (and some questionable officiating now that I think about it)

[Avante]

I meant injury wise. Those losses were just shitting the bed (and some questionable officiating now that I think about it)

I like your little running back Brendan Oliver out of Buffalo, the kid is a stud. A whole other level of quicks than anything the Chargers have had in a long time.

[Aztecfan03]

I like your little running back Brendan Oliver out of Buffalo, the kid is a stud. A whole other level of quicks than anything the Chargers have had in a long time.

He looked good vs Dallas but I'm not gonna get excited about him at this point.

[Avante]

He looked good vs Dallas but I'm not gonna get excited about him at this point.


Well if you'd seen him play at Buffalo, he looked the same vs Dallas. How he went undrafted..???

[Avante]

Andew Luck will be one of the leagues elite QB;s real soon.

Russell Wilson will continue to do his job as well as anyone else in the league.

Then there's RGIII. I personally don't like to see young guys who really haven't done shit doing a lot of endorsements and media stuff, that should be for those who warrant that sort of attention. I do see that stuff as a distraction something young guys don't need.

I never got the impression his game would work (for long) at the NFL level. He did rely too much on his .."world class speed" (no not really) and didn't have a legit NFL arm. Take away the.."will he run?"...and the fact he can't throw that dart into small windows and it's not looking good. I do see Cousins taking over sometime this season, he is the better passer no doubt about that.

[spurraider21]

RG3 has a good arm, but his game notably declined after his injury... shows he was reliant on his feet despite the "i'm a passer first, i only run when i need to" rhetoric we heard from him (and every other running qb ever)... this year he was great weapons so maybe he can make strides from the pocket.

[Avante]

RG3 has a good arm, but his game notably declined after his injury... shows he was reliant on his feet despite the "i'm a passer first, i only run when i need to" rhetoric we heard from him (and every other running qb ever)... this year he was great weapons so maybe he can make strides from the pocket.

All NFL QB'a have a "good" arm. Would you say Peyton/Rodgers/Brady/Brees have "good" arms? They have "great" arms as did Sonny Jurgensen/Joe Thiesman the best of the Redskins QB's.

He wasn't drafted because of his pocket passing prowess, he's there because of the pressure his "dual purpose" ability put on defenses. You take away his running threat and he's not going to be all that productive regardless of who his receivers are. I've seen the guy play many times and he's never impressed me as "just" a passer.

[spurraider21]

All NFL QB'a have a "good" arm. Would you say Peyton/Rodgers/Brady/Brees have "good" arms? They have "great" arms as did Sonny Jurgensen/Joe Thiesman the best of the Redskins QB's.

He wasn't drafted because of his pocket passing prowess, he's there because of the pressure his "dual purpose" ability put on defenses. You take away his running threat and he's not going to be all that productive regardless of who his receivers are. I've seen the guy play many times and he's never impressed me as "just" a passer.
good arm by NFL standards... you know what i meant

[Avante]

good arm by NFL standards... you know what i meant


Yes I did get what you meant I assumed that was obvious. My point was there are a ton of NFL QB's who have something far superior to a "good" arm. Few QB's get (unless they have a STUD defense) too far with just a "good" arm.

[Avante]

Denvers Danny Trevathan just broke a knee cap.

[Avante]

Is this realistic?

Indy Colts

lose in Denver
beat Philly
win at Jax
beat Tenn
beat Balt
win at Hous
beat Cinncy
lose at Pitt
win at Giants
lose to NE
beat Jax
beat Wash
win at Cleve
beat Hous
win at Dallas
win at Tenn

13-3..?

[AchillesHeel]

Which teams will you jinx this year, Avante?

[Avante]

This is a thread about the NFL not Avante, ok? If you need to talk about me start a thread yourself, ok?

[Avante]

Now it starts and it won't be too long until we see where people are really at on this. It is not..."it's you who has the problem, with you homophobia"...like some try to make it out to be.

Sure a ..lone...gay guy on one NFL team isn't...OH MY GOD! But what if there were four or five and they were having a relationship between them, now what? Is pro football ready for a gay love affair on the Patriots?

Being Sam plays the position he does he can sorta get hidden. If he however was a QB or a DB or a receiver/running basck and fucked up I have no doubts at all some drunk would...YOU FUCKING FAGGOT...since he just lost the guy some $$$.

Pro football is the last place for little sensitivities, these are are some big bad dudes and while they "must" play.."hey it's ok with me"....I don't believe it for a second.

[Avante]

Keep an eye on Brendan Oliver Chargers and Christine Michael Seahawks tonight.

[Avante]

Only fools put anything (other than those trying to make a roster) into preseason games, but......is Russell Wilson smooth or what?

I do think this is the season both Wilson and Luck fall in right behind the big five QB's.

[Avante]

Vinnie Sunseri doesn't care if it's preseason.

[Avante]

STOP IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Clowney does not have sprinters speed...SHEESH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Avante]

If you saw the Bucs vs Dolphins game you say history made.

The Buc;s Jeff Demps took a handoff, Demps is the fastest running back to ever tote the ball in NFL history.

While here....

If I'm the Niners I'm trying to work a trade for......Mark Sanchez.

[Pelicans78]

If you saw the Bucs vs Dolphins game you say history made.

The Buc;s Jeff Demps took a handoff, Demps is the fastest running back to ever tote the ball in NFL history.

While here....

If I'm the Niners I'm trying to work a trade for......Mark Sanchez.

To start him over Kaep?

[Avante]

To start him over Kaep?

Oh no, to replace what we have backing Kap up, very very weak.

[Avante]

Arena Football? (have never seen a complete game)

If another league did try and compete (that league isn't) with the NFL, a few changes wouldn't hurt.

Move the kickoff back to the old 40 and all kicks must be returned, no more taking a knee, if ya can't get out of the endzone you don't belong back there.

The college rule of one foot in is all that needed....yep!

No field goals until inside the 20, and only in the last two minutes of a half/game.

No interconference games, back in the old AFL vs NFL days this ...what would happen vs the Chargers played the Rams was a big deal. A mystery.

No instant replay!

All after td conversions will be for two points from the five.

The rookies will all make a rookie salary and sign one year contracts. After that year then the talk of worth.

Nobody allowed to play past 30.

[spurraider21]

- no instant replay is just begging for calls to be wrong. i think they should accelerate it by having it done at another site, and not by the refs on the field

- interconference games are OK. only 4 games per year out of 16 is not that bad, and it ensures fans in each city and see every team at least once every 4 years

- i like the 2 pt conversion rule, but i'd rather have it from the 2 or 3 to make running plays more viable. make the extra point longer, like they've been doing in the preseason.

- a 1 year contract for rookies will screw teams that are trying to rebuild. no player will stick around

[Avante]

- no instant replay is just begging for calls to be wrong. i think they should accelerate it by having it done at another site, and not by the refs on the field

- interconference games are OK. only 4 games per year out of 16 is not that bad, and it ensures fans in each city and see every team at least once every 4 years

- i like the 2 pt conversion rule, but i'd rather have it from the 2 or 3 to make running plays more viable. make the extra point longer, like they've been doing in the preseason.

- a 1 year contract for rookies will screw teams that are trying to rebuild. no player will stick around

I prefer the human element being part of the game and games need to move along not stop and start.


I definately preferred the mystery involved back the AFL vs NFL days. Just how would the Raiders do vs the Niners? And......the way it is now there is always a chance the SB teams could have played earlier in the season that would suck.


I agree, dumb idea going from the five.

How many times have we seen some SEC $$$ (big school) player totally suck at the next level while some guy out of the SWAC $ looks like a stud? But.....it's that SEC guy getting the big $$$$ while the stud goes undrafted. So lets see what these guys really have instead of just assuming. Ater a season ok now let's talk a 3-5 year contract and real $$$$.

$$$ JaMarcus Russell, Heath Schuler
* Rod Smith, Kurt Warner

[Avante]

Keep an eye on "White Lightnin' " Jeff Janis with the Packers, the cat has some serious jets......for a white guy.

He's out of Saginaw Valley State a division II school, while there he was a man among boys.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAAQAA7OttM

[Avante]

Johnny Manziel is a leader, he has charisma and knows how to get the most out of those around him. Brian Hoyer is a dull listless boring individual, he couldn't light a fire with a blow torch.

The Browns have gone 18-46 the last 4 seasons, that's pretty sad, now they finally have somebody used to winning. So they sit his ass on the bench in favor of a guy who wasn't even drafted, are you kidding me?

There is a reason the Pats, Steelers, Cards got rid of Hoyer. There is a reason his career passer rating is 77 something and he has almost as many INT's as he doies TD's.

[Clipper Nation]

Brian Hoyer is a dull listless boring individual
Then you should be able to relate to him....

[Avante]

Then you should be able to relate to him....

That coming from a guy who does nothing here at all but leech off me and everyone else, hahahaha!!!!!!! A guy too dumb/stupid/original/creative to do this himself, hahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I know, I know...I'm a faggot...hahahaha!!!!!!!!!

[Clipper Nation]

That coming from a guy who does nothing here at all but leech off me and everyone else, hahahaha!!!!!!! A guy too dumb/stupid/original/creative to do this himself, hahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I know, I know...I'm a faggot...hahahaha!!!!!!!!!
Didn't read

Brian Football is the starterPERIOD, get over it....

[Avante]

Didn't read

Brian Football is the starterPERIOD, get over it....

No he isn't, he's the guy who will play until Manziel gets it.

[Clipper Nation]

No he isn't, he's the guy who will play until Shaw gets it.
fify

[Avante]

fify

translation

Any QB that can run sucks in my book, it's monkeyball. Forget the fact the best team in football has a QB who can run. Ignore the fact the team with the most wins in the last three seasons has a running QB.

[Clipper Nation]

translation

Any QB that can run sucks in my book, it's monkeyball. Forget the fact the best team in football has a QB who can run.
I don't have a problem with running QB's, it's one-read gimmicks like Inbred that I don't like, tbh....

[Avante]

I don't have a problem with running QB's, it's one-read gimmicks like Inbred that I don't like, tbh....

Didn't read

[Clipper Nation]

Read every word of that truthbomb and have no response

[Avante]

DUH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!....on me.

Fuck it's staring me right in the face and I just now saw it.....ST0000-PEED!

Give JohnnyFootball a few weeks to soak it all in then here comes the bye week and next up Tennesee....and Manziel time. I wonder if Hoyer knows this?

The Browns were going to go 0-3 anyway.

[Avante]

Steeler running backs Blount and Bell busted for pot.

[Avante]

Damn!!!


At Tivy High School he was coached by Mark Smith. He played football all four years in high school and began with the freshman team his first year. By the end of his first season, he played with the varsity team as a receiver. He began his sophomore year primarily as a receiver, but started the fourth game at quarterback. He shared that position for the remainder of the season, finishing with 1,164 yards passing, 806 rushing and 408 receiving for a combined 28 touchdowns. Manziel's junior year was his first as starting quarterback, and he completed that season with 2,903 passing yards, 1,544 rushing yards, 152 receiving yards and 55 touchdowns. That year, he was voted All-San Antonio Area Offensive Player of the Year as well as District 27-4A MVP.[15] (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/#cite_note-Krider-15)
During Manziel's senior season, he compiled 228-of-347 (65.7%) passing for 3,609 yards with 45 TDs and 5 INTs. He also had 170 carries for 1,674 yards and 30 TDs. He had 1 TD reception and returned a kickoff for a touchdown for a combined 77 TDs. That year, he was honored as District 28-4A MVP (unanimous selection), Class 4A First Team All-State (AP), San Antonio Express-News (http://www.spurstalk.com/wiki/San_Antonio_Express-News) Offensive Player of the Year (second year in a row), the Associated Press Sports Editors Texas Player of the Year, Sub-5A First Team All-Area (SA Express-News), No. 1 QB in Texas by Dave Campbell's Texas Football (http://www.spurstalk.com/wiki/Dave_Campbell%27s_Texas_Football), DCTF Top 300, PrepStar (http://www.spurstalk.com/wiki/PrepStar) All-Region and Super-Prep All-Region.[16] (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/#cite_note-16)
For Manziel's three years as a starter, he completed 520 of 819 passes (63.5%) for 7,626 yards and 76 touchdowns, rushed 531 times for 4,045 yards and 77 touchdowns and caught 30 passes for 582 yards and another five touchdowns. He was the only quarterback in America named as a Parade All-American (http://www.spurstalk.com/wiki/Parade_All-American) his senior year, and he was also named The National High School Coaches Association (NHSCA) Senior Athlete of the Year in football.[17] (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/#cite_note-17)

[Pelicans78]

Too bad Manziel isn't starting against the Saints.

[Avante]

Too bad Manziel isn't starting against the Saints.

It wouldn't matter who payed QB, the Saints on a whole other level.

[Avante]

I was just thinking.....

Who out there who watched Manziel at A&M ever thought he'd fit into your basic NFL offense? So why would any pro team draft this guy if that was the plan? I wouldn't have if I planned on trying to just fit him in. How obvious is it that that simply isn't what the guy is about?

Willie Totten was the guy who put Jerry Rice on the map back in those Mississippi Valley State days. MVS ran a true spread offense, with Totten standing back there in the shot gun trying to find which of his five wide receivers are open. He was amazing..."in that role". What, you draft him then try to stick him under center?

Notice the last sentence.


Willie "Satellite" Totten (born July 4, 1962) is a former professional football player and current college football coach. Totten was a four-year starter quarterback (http://www.spurstalk.com/wiki/Quarterback) at Mississippi Valley State University (http://www.spurstalk.com/wiki/Mississippi_Valley_State_University) from 1981 to 1985, along with Jerry Rice (http://www.spurstalk.com/wiki/Jerry_Rice) as his target at wide receiver. Totten set more than 50 Division I-AA (http://www.spurstalk.com/wiki/Division_I-AA) passing records, and Rice setting many Division I-AA (http://www.spurstalk.com/wiki/Division_I-AA) receiving records. The Delta Devils averaged 59 points a game during the 1984 season, with Totten throwing for a record 58 touchdowns and leading the Delta Devils to the Division I-AA playoffs in 1984. Archie Cooley (http://www.spurstalk.com/wiki/Archie_Cooley), who was the head coach at MVSU from 1980 to 1986, was the architect of the pass-oriented offense that utilized the skills of Totten.

[spurraider21]

A spread offense with 5 wide would get steamrolled by an nfl defense. This is why we have pro style offenses

[Avante]

A spread offense with 5 wide would get steamrolled by an nfl defense. This is why we have pro style offenses

I agree 100% that wasn't my point. My point was you don't waste a draft pick on a spread QB. You sign him as a free agent and see if he can make the transition.

Look at the Seahawks, they are winning like teams did back in the day. Win the TO battle, play that stud defense and run the ball. They are winning at a time when it was supppse to be...ya gotta throw the ball, throw the ball.....as we can see, no you don't. There are a lot of ways to win football games.

[Pelicans78]

I agree 100% that wasn't my point. My point was you don't waste a draft pick on a spread QB. You sign him as a free agent and see if he can make the transition.

Look at the Seahawks, they are winning like teams did back in the day. Win the TO battle, play that stud defense and run the ball. They are winning at a time when it was supppse to be...ya gotta throw the ball, throw the ball.....as we can see, no you don't. There are a lot of ways to win football games.

Wilson was developed in a pro-style offense at both N.C. State and Wisconsin. He never ran some gimmicky offense in college. That's why he was so well-prepared to play.

[Avante]

Wilson was developed in a pro-style offense at both N.C. State and Wisconsin. He never ran some gimmicky offense in college. That's why he was so well-prepared to play.


Well he played in 50 college games and averaged 8 runs a game.

[Pelicans78]

Well he played in 50 college games and averaged 8 runs a game.

Because he could. But it doesn't change the fact that he played in offenses that were pro-style/west coast.

[Avante]

Because he could. But it doesn't change the fact that he played in offenses that were pro-style/west coast.

Wel when a QB runs over 200 times in a college season he'd doing things a little different.

[Pelicans78]

Wel when a QB runs over 200 times in a college season he'd doing things a little different.

Nah, he's just using his running abilities in the scheme of the offense. Ran alot of bootlegs in Wisconsin and would also run when the play would breakdown. He was no gimmicky QB running the pistol or spread option.

[Avante]

Nah, he's just using his running abilities in the scheme of the offense. Ran alot of bootlegs in Wisconsin and would also run when the play would breakdown. He was no gimmicky QB running the pistol or spread option.

Where am I saying he was a gimmick? My point is that he wasn't just a seven drop passing QB.

[Avante]

The talk of Michael Vick got me thinking about speed.

I will be talking track speed here.

The Fastest

1000 yard rusher.....Curtis Dickey 10.10 Texas A&M/Colts (actually world ranked)
1000 yard receiver....Bob Hayes 10.06WR Florida A&M/Cowboys
Defensive back...Darrell Green 10.08 Tex A&I/Redskins
Kick returner...Trindon Holliday 10.00 LSU/pick one

The sub 10.10/9.3 gang (* a Raider at some time)

All those mentioned above (Dickey also had a 9.2)

Sam Graddy 10.09 Tenn/Broncos *
Jacoby Ford 10.01 Clemson/Raiders
Ron Brown 10.06 ASU/Rams *
Alvis Whitted 10.07 NCSt/Raiders
Jeff Demps 10.01 Florida/Buc's
Willie McGee 9.1WR Alcorn/Chargers
Mel Gray 9.2 Missouri/Cards
Cliff Branch 9.2 Colorado/Raiders

Hayes, Graddy, Brown and Demps all Olympic medalists.

Anyone interested in your teams fastest player ever, I have that. You can never know too much:hat

[Avante]

Fastest 40's of All Time

http://www.statisticbrain.com/fastest-40-yard-dash-times-in-nfl-history/

[Avante]

Remember when.....

Eddie Lacy was fat?

RGIII was thought to be better than Russell Wilson?

The Texans were good?

Aaron Rodgers was handing off to Marshawn Lynch?

The Chiefs sucked?

Eli Manning was winning SB's?

Cam Newton was at Blinn JC?

Ryan Matthews was a a QB at West Bakersfield?

Darren Sproles was a Charger?

Darren McFadden looked like a real player?

JJ Watt was the most talked about Texan defender?

Everyone was shocked to see Adrian Peterson leave Texas for Oklahoma?

[Avante]

Raji out for season with injury....ouch!

The Packers can't catch a break.

[spurraider21]

While he hasn't lived up to his draft say potential, they're pretty thin there

[Avante]

While he hasn't lived up to his draft say potential, they're pretty thin there

Well they do have a couple 310 pounders there in Boyd and Gion. See what happens.

[spurraider21]

jacoby ford got cut. he's done

[Avante]

jacoby ford got cut. he's done

Just guessing I'd say he was one of those young guys would made a little $$$ then lost the fire. We see that all the time.

Yep, (other than CFL) he's done.

While here....

If I'm the Niners I'm dumping James, that Winston kid wants it's more and is actually more talented.

[spurraider21]

Just guessing I'd say he was one of those young guys would made a little $$$ then lost the fire. We see that all the time.

Yep, (other than CFL) he's done.

While here....

If I'm the Niners I'm dumping James, that Winston kid wants it's more and is actually more talented.
its not a matter of fire. he doesn't have it anymore physically. its what i've been trying to tell you these past few months. he had consistent injury issues which is why the raiders let him go in the first place

[Avante]

its not a matter of fire. he doesn't have it anymore physically. its what i've been trying to tell you these past few months. he had consistent injury issues which is why the raiders let him go in the first place

You also tried to tell me college stat don't matter, when it's real obvious they do. You also try to tell me history means nothing, when we all know it does. So I am a little suspect when you try to tell me anything. How many teams pick up players they don't think can help them? So Ford must have shown something. And at his age what injury does he have he can't shake?

Don't act like you know the guy, ok? What could have happened is he did sustain some injuries then got lazy with the recupperation process, yep..lacks the grit/fire.

[spurraider21]

You also tried to tell me college stat don't matter, when it's real obvious they do. You also try to tell me history means nothing, when we all know it does. So I am a little suspect when you try to tell me anything. How many teams pick up players they don't think can help them? So Ford must have shown something. And at his age what injury does he have he can't shake?

Don't act like you know the guy, ok? What could have happened is he did sustain some injuries then got lazy with the recupperation process, yep..lacks the grit/fire.
i didn't tell you college stats don't matter. i said they aren't the most important thing. any number of college QB's can put up spectacular numbers. jamarcus russell, tim tebow, tim couch, tyler wilson are all top 15 ALL TIME in completion percentage in the great SEC. are they accurate quarterbacks, though? nope. not by NFL standards

you dont look at the statsheet and assume it will all transfer. you have to look at the tape. is the guy throwing to wide open receivers, or are there contested throws? if all his guys are always open and he's throwing into an ocean (like tebow), his accuracy isn't being tested. does he have all day in the pocket? that could mean he'll have a difficult time adjusting to the speed of the NFL. it also tends to lead to elongated deliveries, holding the ball, and slower reads. is he throwing bullets in traffic? or just tossing it to uncontested receivers? is he running a read option or is he running a pro-style offense? is he running a spread? etc.

there are ALL kinds of things you need to look at. andrew luck didn't put up the best college numbers, but he was considered the best prospect in years. why?

[Avante]

I showed you this before and you ignored it for obvious reasons.

So this is bogus and you know better?


Although the months leading up to the NFL (http://bleacherreport.com/nfl) draft tend to glorify individual workouts in shorts, there is no more important indicator of a player’s prospects for success at the next level than what they were able to do as a collegiate player.
With that being said, many players who achieve statistical success at the collegiate level never have their games translate to success in the NFL.


~~~~~~~~~~~

OBVIOUSLY....these players are drafted on the assumption they will be able to fit into the NFL game, many are drafted as projects. But......make no mistake about it what they showed in the college game means everything.

Luck had a solid career at Stanford, now add his size/speed/intelligence and his upbringing.

[Avante]

After this week it will obviously be....just don't get hurt.

So what did I see from the preseason? Another obvious is never put too much into it other than the rookies trying to make teams and injuries. We see nothing remotely close to what is really going on. The Texans beating the Broncos pretty much says it all.

I wouldn't be a bit surprised if Wes Welker might be done. And that is a real big deal for the Broncos.

Time to let LaMichael James go.

Not sure how anyone could be critical of Kelvin Benjamin?

Dri Archer is as advertised.

A little disappointed with Terrance West.

Russell Wilson looks about as smooth and in control as any QB I've seen.

RGIII is a mess, he is now being found out.

The Niners have more quality depth than they ever had in the Harbaugh era.

[spurraider21]

I showed you this before and you ignored it for obvious reasons.

So this is bogus and you know better?


Although the months leading up to the NFL (http://bleacherreport.com/nfl) draft tend to glorify individual workouts in shorts, there is no more important indicator of a player’s prospects for success at the next level than what they were able to do as a collegiate player.
With that being said, many players who achieve statistical success at the collegiate level never have their games translate to success in the NFL.


~~~~~~~~~~~

OBVIOUSLY....these players are drafted on the assumption they will be able to fit into the NFL game, many are drafted as projects. But......make no mistake about it what they showed in the college game means everything.

Luck had a solid career at Stanford, now add his size/speed/intelligence and his upbringing.
not once did i mention individual workouts... i mentioned the tape of what they did on game day. sometimes a 14 yard pass says a lot more about a quarterback than a 75 yard touchdown on an uncontested throw. even though one looks much better on a stat sheet. you look at how a quarterback's skill set will translate, not what his box score numbers were

[Avante]

not once did i mention individual workouts... i mentioned the tape of what they did on game day. sometimes a 14 yard pass says a lot more about a quarterback than a 75 yard touchdown on an uncontested throw. even though one looks much better on a stat sheet. you look at how a quarterback's skill set will translate, not what his box score numbers were

Why tell me the obvious? My point is these guys are drafted on those NCAA numbers. IF...the competition was there. If you can play QB in the Pac12/SEC you will get a look. We all know nobody is fooling the NFL, that goes without saying. But.....it's those numbers that show the potential.

[spurraider21]

Why tell me the obvious? My point is these guys are drafted on those NCAA numbers. IF...the competition was there. If you can play QB in the Pac12/SEC you will get a look. We all know nobody is fooling the NFL, that goes without saying. But.....it's those numbers that show the potential.
the numbers tell a part of the story. tebow had an incredible passer rating and completion percentage while winning heismans, national chapionships... yep in the SEC

in his 3 seasons as a starter he had passer ratings and completion %'s of...

2007: 172.5 rating, 66.7% completions, along with 32 touchdowns and 6 interceptions
2008: 172.4 rating, 64.4% completions, along with 30 touchdowns and 4 interceptions
2009: 164.2 rating, 67.8% completions, along with 21 touchdowns and 5 interceptions

but how good of a passer was tebow in the NFL? hmmmmmmmmmmm

[Avante]

the numbers tell a part of the story. tebow had an incredible passer rating and completion percentage while winning heismans, national chapionships... yep in the SEC

but how good of a passer was tebow in the NFL? hmmmmmmmmmmm

You're totally missing the point. I;m not talking about their NFL success or lack of it, I'm talking about why they got their NFL shot, that isn't obvious? How did Russell, Tebow, Heath Schuler, Ryan Leaf, Gary Beban (Heisman winner), Terry Baker (Heisman winner).....warrant an NFL look, yep.....NCAA numbers.

[spurraider21]

You're totally missing the point. I;m not talking about their NFL success or lack of it, I'm talking about why they got their NFL shot, that isn't obvious? How did Russell, Tebow, Heath Schuler, Ryan Leaf, Gary Beban (Heisman winner), Terry Baker (Heisman winner).....warrant an NFL look, yep.....NCAA numbers.
i'm talking about projecting NFL success. sometimes, guys inexplicably bust. guys that had college success, guys that had all the "NFL tools" like armstrength, mobility, and just flat out didnt work. maybe the paychecks get to them, maybe they just didnt have it mentally. if it were an exact science, we'd never have busts

but my point, avante, is that when you are trying to project success at the NFL level (which is the primary goal of talent/draft evaluators), i am arguing that simply looking at box score numbers and the school they attended are NOT sufficient. Tebow played at Florida, an elite school in an elite conference, and as you see in my previous post, he LIT UP the box scores. incredible passing figures. but anybody who watched the tape knows he wasn't a very accurate passer, despite the high completion % and low interception numbers. almost everybody noticed this, which is why Denver was criticized for taking him in the first round, despite his college acumen.

[Avante]

i'm talking about projecting NFL success. sometimes, guys inexplicably bust. guys that had college success, guys that had all the "NFL tools" like armstrength, mobility, and just flat out didnt work. maybe the paychecks get to them, maybe they just didnt have it mentally. if it were an exact science, we'd never have busts

but my point, avante, is that when you are trying to project success at the NFL level (which is the primary goal of talent/draft evaluators), i am arguing that simply looking at box score numbers and the school they attended are NOT sufficient. Tebow played at Florida, an elite school in an elite conference, and as you see in my previous post, he LIT UP the box scores. incredible passing figures. but anybody who watched the tape knows he wasn't a very accurate passer, despite the high completion % and low interception numbers. almost everybody noticed this, which is why Denver was criticized for taking him in the first round, despite his college acumen.

I get all that, ok? So why are those guys drafted high....ANYWAY??? It's because they have that potential, the tools that can be sharpened. Or so the NFL thinks, in some cases it works out in others it doesn't.

If a QB is a winner in one of the major conferences he's going to get an NFL shot, and it won't matter what the tape shows. Go ahead give me the name of any successful major conference QB who didn't get an NFL look.......despite what the tapes show. Go ahead...who?

[spurraider21]

I get all that, ok? So why are those guys drafted high....ANYWAY??? It's because they have that potential, the tools that can be sharpened. Or so the NFL thinks, in some cases it works out in others it doesn't.

If a QB is a winner in one of the major conferences he's going to get an NFL, and it won't matter what the tape shows. Go ahead give me the name of any successful major conference QB who didn't get an NFL look.......despite what the tapes show. Go ahead...who?
jason white. heisman winner from oklahoma. he threw for 40 touchdowns and 35 touchdowns in his last 2 years while completing 62 and 65% of his passes those years

[Avante]

jason white. heisman winner from oklahoma. he threw for 40 touchdowns and 35 touchdowns in his last 2 years while completing 62 and 65% of his passes those years

You do know about his knee problems right, yep, both legs. The guy couldn't move at all, he made Peyton Manning look mobile. But.......he still got an NFL look with the Titans.

Terrible example.

After suffering from consecutive anterior cruciate ligament (http://www.spurstalk.com/wiki/Anterior_cruciate_ligament) tears, White had reconstructive knee surgeries on both knees during the 2001 and 2002 seasons. Despite the fact that White could not scramble.....

Do your homework amigo.

[spurraider21]

You do know about his knee problems right, yep, both legs. The guy couldn't move at all, he made Peyton Manning look mobile. But.......he still got an NFL look with the Titans.

Terrible example.

After suffering from consecutive anterior cruciate ligament (http://www.spurstalk.com/wiki/Anterior_cruciate_ligament) tears, White had reconstructive knee surgeries on both knees during the 2001 and 2002 seasons. Despite the fact that White could not scramble.....

Do your homework amigo.
after surgeries in 01 and 02 he won the heisman in 03 and was 3rd in heisman voting in 04. he still went undrafted

[Avante]

after surgeries in 01 and 02 he won the heisman in 03 and was 3rd in heisman voting in 04. he still went undrafted

If you don't understand this I can't help you. The guy .......couldn't run at all..ok? What NFL team is wasting a draft pick on a sitting duck?

Ex-Sooners' QB says knees won't let him play

Come on man:rolleyes

[Pelicans78]

If you don't understand this I can't help you. The guy .......couldn't run at all..ok? What NFL team is wasting a draft pick on a sitting duck?

CoEx-Sooners' QB says knees won't let him play



His arm wasn't very strong either.

[Avante]

His arm wasn't very strong either.

It wouldn't have mattered if he'd had a cannon and could stick a football up a hummingbirds ass from 50 yards, the guy had no mobility at all, like......none. Because of his knees.

Spurraider simply wasn't aware of this....obviously. Of course we won't ever hear......ok man, didn't know that, my bad.

[spurraider21]

If you don't understand this I can't help you. The guy .......couldn't run at all..ok? What NFL team is wasting a draft pick on a sitting duck?

Ex-Sooners' QB says knees won't let him play

Come on man:rolleyes
everybody knew he wasn't a good prospect coming out anyway

[Avante]

everybody knew he wasn't a good prospect coming out anyway

So.....where exactly are you going with this....???? Why bring up a guy who failed physicals? You don't think the NFL knew about this? So you brought him up.....because?

[spurraider21]

So.....where exactly are you going with this....???? Why bring up a guy who failed physicals? You don't think the NFL knew about this? So you brought him up.....because?
you asked for a productive qb from an elite school that wasn't given a shot, and jason white went undrafted

[spurraider21]

NEW YORK -- A Heisman Trophy on Jason White (http://proxy.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft05/tracker/player?id=8750)'s resume wasn't enough to get him drafted.
Oklahoma had 11 players drafted, but the Sooners quarterback was not one of them.

After having six players taken in the first three rounds, five more Sooners were selected Sunday in rounds four through seven, including cornerback Antonio Perkins (http://proxy.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft05/tracker/player?id=8132), linebacker Lance Mitchell (http://proxy.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft05/tracker/player?id=8445)and safety Donte Nicholson (http://proxy.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft05/tracker/player?id=8266).
"I'm real happy for our players and very proud of them, too," Oklahoma coach Bob Stoops said. "I have a lot of confidence that they'll go on and do well in the NFL and I believe the players that were drafted will be joined by others who will sign as free agents.
"We're happy about the number but not surprised. Look back over the last few years at the Big 12 championships, all the victories and the BCS bowls. It's obvious we had a lot of good players."
Oklahoma has played in the last two Bowl Championship Series title games, losing both.
White rebounded from two major knee injuries to win the Heisman two years ago, throwing for 3,946 yards and 40 touchdowns.
He received a waiver from the NCAA to return for a sixth season at Oklahoma last year and made another run at the Heisman. He passed for 35 TDs and 3,205 yards, and finished third in the Heisman voting behind quarterback Matt Leinart of Southern California and Sooners freshman tailback Adrian Peterson.
But White, with sketchy arm strength and a history of injuries that have cut into his quickness and mobility, was projected to be a late-round selection at best.
Instead, he'll look to latch on as a free agent.
Fourteen quarterbacks were taken in the seven-round draft, including Harvard's Ryan Fitzpatrick (http://proxy.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft05/tracker/player?id=8762)and James Killian of Tulsa.
The last Heisman Trophy winner to not be drafted was Charlie Ward, who won the award with Florida State in 1993, but he made it known he was going to play basketball instead. Ward was a first-round pick in the NBA for the New York Knicks.
Among the other prominent players to go undrafted were Tennessee tackle Michael Munoz (http://proxy.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft05/tracker/player?id=8642), the son of Hall of Famer Anthony Munoz, and Michigan safety Ernest Shazor (http://proxy.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft05/tracker/player?id=9056), who left school after his junior season. Munoz and Shazor were All-Americans last season.


see? he clearly was still looking to play/get drafted. he didn't declare himself unable to play until later. despite his obvious flaws (arm strength, mobility) he put up monstrous numbers and was a heisman caliber guy... in a legit div 1 school. but scouts looked at the flaws as opposed to the stats. this is what i've been telling you

[Avante]

you asked for a productive qb from an elite school that wasn't given a shot, and jason white went undrafted

I assumed you had enought common sense to realize nobody is drafting a QB who failed a physical...DURING THE DRAFT PROCESS.

Dude, how about....ok Avante, I didn't know about the knees, my bad...ok?

[Avante]

NEW YORK -- A Heisman Trophy on Jason White (http://proxy.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft05/tracker/player?id=8750)'s resume wasn't enough to get him drafted.
Oklahoma had 11 players drafted, but the Sooners quarterback was not one of them.

After having six players taken in the first three rounds, five more Sooners were selected Sunday in rounds four through seven, including cornerback Antonio Perkins (http://proxy.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft05/tracker/player?id=8132), linebacker Lance Mitchell (http://proxy.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft05/tracker/player?id=8445)and safety Donte Nicholson (http://proxy.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft05/tracker/player?id=8266).
"I'm real happy for our players and very proud of them, too," Oklahoma coach Bob Stoops said. "I have a lot of confidence that they'll go on and do well in the NFL and I believe the players that were drafted will be joined by others who will sign as free agents.
"We're happy about the number but not surprised. Look back over the last few years at the Big 12 championships, all the victories and the BCS bowls. It's obvious we had a lot of good players."
Oklahoma has played in the last two Bowl Championship Series title games, losing both.
White rebounded from two major knee injuries to win the Heisman two years ago, throwing for 3,946 yards and 40 touchdowns.
He received a waiver from the NCAA to return for a sixth season at Oklahoma last year and made another run at the Heisman. He passed for 35 TDs and 3,205 yards, and finished third in the Heisman voting behind quarterback Matt Leinart of Southern California and Sooners freshman tailback Adrian Peterson.
But White, with sketchy arm strength and a history of injuries that have cut into his quickness and mobility, was projected to be a late-round selection at best.
Instead, he'll look to latch on as a free agent.
Fourteen quarterbacks were taken in the seven-round draft, including Harvard's Ryan Fitzpatrick (http://proxy.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft05/tracker/player?id=8762)and James Killian of Tulsa.
The last Heisman Trophy winner to not be drafted was Charlie Ward, who won the award with Florida State in 1993, but he made it known he was going to play basketball instead. Ward was a first-round pick in the NBA for the New York Knicks.
Among the other prominent players to go undrafted were Tennessee tackle Michael Munoz (http://proxy.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft05/tracker/player?id=8642), the son of Hall of Famer Anthony Munoz, and Michigan safety Ernest Shazor (http://proxy.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft05/tracker/player?id=9056), who left school after his junior season. Munoz and Shazor were All-Americans last season.


see? he clearly was still looking to play/get drafted. he didn't declare himself unable to play until later. despite his obvious flaws (arm strength, mobility) he put up monstrous numbers and was a heisman caliber guy... in a legit div 1 school. but scouts looked at the flaws as opposed to the stats. this is what i've been telling you

Dude......HE FAILED A PHYSICAL....ok?

Wow~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[spurraider21]

I assumed you had enought common sense to realize nobody is drafting a QB who failed a physical...DURING THE DRAFT PROCESS.

Dude, how about....ok Avante, I didn't know about the knees, my bad...ok?
he didnt fail a phsyical during the draft process

[spurraider21]

Dude......HE FAILED A PHYSICAL....ok?

Wow~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
not before or during the draft, dummy

[spurraider21]

avante, you can keep searching for links that say jason white failed physicals during or before the draft... but you won't find them.

can you admit you were wrong?

[Avante]

This is bogus?

Because of injuries. He failed physicals during the scoutings prior to the draft. He actually was signed by the Titans in 2005... but quit on that year on his own terms citing knee weakness. Basically he took too many hits in college and should have went pro after winning the Heisman and would have been draft for sure.

Why not just admit you knew nothing about the knees situation, dude, it's real obvious..ok? Ya see guy, he had it so bad.....he could only take snaps from the shot gun his senior year. Now think (I know you can) what NFL team is drafting a QB who can't take a snap?

Dude, how about...ok ok man, didn't know any of that, my bad?

copy

The NFL scouts knew exactly how bad his knees were that's why he wasn't drafted. These guys know there jobs. He wasn'r drafted because he didn't have skills, he wasn't drafted because no GM wanted to spend a draft pick on someone who wasn't going to last too long. Most teams would rather develop someone who would be around a while.
Jason's knees were protected in practice the last couple of years with reduced reps however, when he had to put in major reps and do complete workouts at the pro level, his knees couldn't handle the abuse. Retirement was more of a way to keep his knees for later in life than it was a way to avoid getting cut. Why limp around for the rest of his life when he can avoid the abuse and get on with life.

Come on dummy, why keep ignoring what actually happened there, instead of looking ridiculous....ok?

Jason White wasn't drafted because the NFL knew all about his knees, and how he couldn't even take snaps from undrer center......ALRIGHT?

Do your homework...rookie!

[spurraider21]

This is bogus?

Because of injuries. He failed physicals during the scoutings prior to the draft.
please provide a link to this claim

[Avante]

please provide a link to this claim


I'll look for one.

So tell me little man, why are you totally ignoring this?


2003: QB Jason White, Oklahoma (undrafted)
Despite White's stellar collegiate career, he went undrafted in 2005 because of injury concerns regarding his two surgically repaired knees, both of which had anterior cruciate ligament tears. Only one NFL team, the Titans, saw him as a fit. And that was if he made the Tennessee roster in the spring of 2005 as an undrafted free agent. Unfortunately for him, his knees didn't hold up and his NFL hopes were halted before they could get going. He is currently a businessman in his home state of Oklahoma.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

So you knew all about his knees situation as being the reason NFL teams passed on him.....right? Yet you still tried to sell it was about his lack of skils...hahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!

Dude, come on man, it's really obvious you found out about his knees....tonight...ok?

Little man, Google.......why was Oklahoma QB Jason White passed over by the NFL.......tell me what you find, ok?

[spurraider21]

I'll look for one.

So tell me little man, why are you totally ignoring this?


2003: QB Jason White, Oklahoma (undrafted)
Despite White's stellar collegiate career, he went undrafted in 2005 because of injury concerns regarding his two surgically repaired knees, both of which had anterior cruciate ligament tears. Only one NFL team, the Titans, saw him as a fit. And that was if he made the Tennessee roster in the spring of 2005 as an undrafted free agent. Unfortunately for him, his knees didn't hold up and his NFL hopes were halted before they could get going. He is currently a businessman in his home state of Oklahoma.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

So you knew all about his knees situation as being the reason NFL teams passed on him.....right? Yet you still tried to sell it was about his lack of skils...hahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!

Dude, come on man, it's really obvious you found out about his knees....tonight...ok?
where does this say that Jason White failed a physical before the draft?

[Avante]

where does this say that Jason White failed a physical before the draft?

So you simply refuse to admit you knew nothing about his knees situation, right? Wow guy!

We talked about this on another board way back then when White went undrafted. The story was he failed a physical before the draft, well since it was real obvious the guy could hardly walk, that made sense. I never questioned it.

So you still think it was his skill or lack of it is why he wasn't drafted?

[spurraider21]

So you simply refuse to admit you knew nothing about his knees situation, right? Wow guy!

We talked about this on another board way back then when White went undrafted. The story was he failed a physical before the draft, well since it was real obvious the guy could hardly walk, that made sense. I never questioned it.

So you still think it was his skill or lack of it is why he wasn't drafted?
you talked about it so much, and yet there is nothing that says he ever failed a physical before the draft. keep going

[Avante]

you talked about it so much, and yet there is nothing that says he ever failed a physical before the draft. keep going

I've read where he did fail a physical more than once.

So tell me did you know about his knees before tonight? Well?

Do you really think he was passed over because of his skill set?

[spurraider21]

I've read where he did fail a physical more than once.

So tell me did you know about his knees before tonight? Well?

Do you really think he was passed over because of his skill set?
"concerns" are not the same as failing a physical

can you admit you made that up?

[Avante]

"concerns" are not the same as failing a physical

can you admit you made that up?

When are you going to answer....

Hey Spurraider,did you know about Whites knees before tonight?

Hey Spurraider, do you still think he was passed over by the NFL because of his skill set?

How about answering those questions, ok?

If you do I'll sent you to where I got....he failed a physical..ok?

[spurraider21]

When are you going to answer....

Hey Spurraider,did you know about Whites knees before tonight?

Hey Spurraider, do you still think he was passed over by the NFL because of his skill set?

How about answering those questions, ok?

If you do I'll sent you to where I got....he failed a physical..ok?
yes, i knew about his knee issues. however, teams knew he had a weak arm, was immobile, and not a good pro prospect coming out.

did you make up the part about him failing physicals before the draft?

[Avante]

yes, i knew about his knee issues. however, teams knew he had a weak arm, was immobile, and not a good pro prospect coming out.

did you make up the part about him failing physicals before the draft?

Why do you always totally ignore what I show you? Dude, the guy couldn't take snaps from under center, does that ring any kind of bell with you? No, the NFL didn't pass him over because oif anything other than his knees situation. Why not try reading what I showed you?

I don't make things up little guy, more than once I've read where he failed a physical before the draft.

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070404113751AAbAewa

[spurraider21]

Why do you always totally ignore what I show you? Dude, the guy couldn't take snaps from under center, does that ring any kind if bell with you? No, the NFL didn't pass him over becausde oif anything other than his knees situation. Why not try reading what I showed you?

I don't make things up little guy, more than once I've read where he failed a physical before the draft.
i can make shit up too. "more than once, i've read where NFL scouts and GM's said they thought jason white was healthy but he was a poor prospect and decided to not draft him"

see how that works? either provide evidence for what you are saying, or admit you made it up

[Avante]

i can make shit up too. "more than once, i've read where NFL scouts and GM's said they thought jason white was healthy but he was a poor prospect and decided to not draft him"

see how that works? either provide evidence for what you are saying, or admit you made it up

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070404113751AAbAewa

Wrong as usual little man.

Now show me somewhere saying......it wasn't Jason White's knees situation, that was a non factor, it was his lack of arm strenght as to why he went undrafted.

[spurraider21]

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070404113751AAbAewa

Wrong as usual little man.

Now show me somewhere saying......it wasn't Jason White's knees situation, that was a non factor, it was his lack of arm strenght as to why he went undrafted.
hahahahahaha some random yahoo users are your proof?

hahahahahhaha

[Avante]

hahahahahaha some random yahoo users are your proof?

hahahahahhaha

When did the poster on a basketball site, prove he didn't have a physical before the NFL draft?

And I said I'd read it a few places (the others back then) and had no locigal reason to question it.

Bottom line shorty is I didn't make shit up, so you were wrong..AGAIN!!!!!!!

Why are you pretending you knew about the knees? Do you really think anyone believes that bullshit? Dude, nobody is going to use a guy with two bad knees who can't even take snaps from center as some QB example, hahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!! Dude, you learned about those knees tonight and it;s really obvious, ok?

[Avante]

Here ya go...




Copyright NFLDraftScout.com, distributed by The Sports Xchange


Overview



Above average pocket passer with good field vision and a strong arm … Made all the calls and checks and also set the protection call for the offense … Gets good depth on his drop and set, showing the ability to stand in the pocket and deliver the ball with good zip and delivery … Has a compact over-the-top release, but while he can also be effective with a three-quarter arm delivery, it shows a little glitch … His intermediate range accuracy allows him to give the receiver a chance to catch ball and he moves the offense well with underneath throws … His accuracy throwing long is adequate and he has good touch on fade routes and deep outs … Shows good consistency stepping into his throws and rarely will you see him throw off his back foot … Has great poise and leadership qualities, setting a good example by staying calm stepping up in the pocket … Possesses average size for the position but is too stationary in the way he stands in the pocket … His feet are not effective weapons, as White does not have any quickness to get positive yards by scrambling … Relies on his good vision to get positive yards … Puts good zip on his mid-level passes down field and is very effective throwing the 15-yard outs … Sometimes fails to spot the dropping linebacker in zone coverage, but he shows patience waiting for his plays to develop and is not the type that will throw into coverage when pressured … Does a good job of hitting his receivers in stride … Despite a lack of mobility, he has enough foot slide to avoid the pressure in the pocket … When he tries to roll out and throw, his passes tend to lose accuracy … Shows a good knack for looking off and freezing the free safety … Has very good anticipation and timing, doing a good job of locating his secondary targets.




So tell me again why he wasn't drafted?

Show me anyway that dumps on the guy and don't mention his knees situation?

[spurraider21]

again, are you willing to admit that you made up the fact that he failed physicals before the draft?

[Avante]

again, are you willing to admit that you made up the fact that he failed physicals before the draft?

I'll go really really slow....

I just showed you where I read about that. I had no reason to doubt it, the guy wouldn't have passed an NFL physical. I've also read about his failed physical other places back then. I was under the assumption he did fail a physical and I still haven't seen any....proof...he didn't.

Now, why are you pretending you knew about the knees when only a blind man wouldn't see that you learned about that tonight?

Spurraider..............the....guy....couldn't...e ven...take....snaps...from...under...center.....HE LLO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wow~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Midget, you're taking a beating here, ok? If this were a fight they'd stop it on cuts, you're all cut up. NOBODY......uses Jason White as some example of anything, ya see the NFL knew all about his physical condition, ok little man?

DAMN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Why ignore...

The NFL scouts knew exactly how bad his knees were that's why he wasn't drafted. These guys know there jobs. He wasn'r drafted because he didn't have skills, he wasn't drafted because no GM wanted to spend a draft pick on someone who wasn't going to last too long. Most teams would rather develop someone who would be around a while.

Comment on that, ok? You do know he was pushin' 25 coming out of Oklahoma....right?

[spurraider21]

i'm taking a beating? you lied and haven't admit it yet

you repeatedly claimed that White failed physicals prior to the draft.

[Avante]

i'm taking a beating? you lied and haven't admit it yet

you repeatedly claimed that White failed physicals prior to the draft.

Well actually when was it ..proven...he didn't? Why keep ignoring what I showed you? I thought he did fail a physical, that isn't obvious? I've read that he failed a physical....ok?I showed that.

I get what you're doing guy, trying everything to get out of...'ok ok I knew nothing about the knees, ok there".....and it's obvious.


I thought ya had a little more class than this, wow guy this is sad to watch.

[spurraider21]

Why bring up a guy who failed physicals?


I assumed you had enought common sense to realize nobody is drafting a QB who failed a physical...DURING THE DRAFT PROCESS.


Dude......HE FAILED A PHYSICAL....ok?


This is bogus?

Because of injuries. He failed physicals during the scoutings prior to the draft.


The story was he failed a physical before the draft


I've read where he did fail a physical more than once.


If you do I'll sent you to where I got....he failed a physical..ok?


I don't make things up little guy, more than once I've read where he failed a physical before the draft.
wow so much lying, and you still can't fess up to it

Well actually when was it ..proven...he didn't?
:lmao that logic. when was it..proven...that a rainbow colored unicorn on the planet neptune... doesn't exist?
avante, if you make the claim, you need to provide the evidence. thats how it works... ok?

[Avante]

wow so much lying, and you still can't fess up to it

:lmao that logic. when was it..proven...that a rainbow colored unicorn on the planet neptune... doesn't exist?
avante, if you make the claim, you need to provide the evidence. thats how it works... ok?

Anything to get out of..."ok ok I knew nothing about the knee situation with White"....hahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!

Ok man....I'm going to say that Jason White failed a physical before the draft...................prove he didn't! I've shown you someone who thinks he did, now show me something that says he didn't?


You realize you fucked up and are trying everything to save face, but we both know the truth, ok?

It's...lets get off on Avantes physical thing, get away from my stupid Jason White crap...........we all see it little guy, ok?

[spurraider21]

Anything to get out of..."ok ok I knew nothing about the knee situation with White"....hahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!

Ok man....I'm going to say that Jason White failed a physical before the draft...................prove he didn't! I've shown you someone who thinks he did, now show me something that says he didn't?
you want me to find an article stating that "jason white did not fail a physical before a draft"... you are ridiculous. i challenge you to find an article that specifically states that a rainbow colored unicorn does not exist on the planet neptune.

see how silly that is? if you made the claim that white failed a physical, the onus is on you to bring evidence for it. "some guy" who thinks it happened doesn't qualify.

why do you insist on dragging on your lie?

[Avante]

you want me to find an article stating that "jason white did not fail a physical before a draft"... you are ridiculous. i challenge you to find an article that specifically states that a rainbow colored unicorn does not exist on the planet neptune.

see how silly that is? if you made the claim that white failed a physical, the onus is on you to bring evidence for it. "some guy" who thinks it happened doesn't qualify.

why do you insist on dragging on your lie?

That was weak.

I showed you where White failing a physical before the draft was mentioned, there is no reason at all to just assume the guy was lying....none! He believed that and isn't the only one as I mentioned. I have no reason of any kind to think that's a bogus claim. And unless you can prove it is a bogus claim I'm going with what was said. Prove it's a bogus statement. If ya can't then it isn;t.....got it little man? Are you really dumb enought to think White would have passed an NFL physical...hahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now, why the lies about knowing about the knees? You didn't know shit and we both know it, I doubt you've even see White play

[spurraider21]

That was weak.

I showed you where White failing a physical before the draft was mentioned, there is no reason at all to just assume the guy was lying....none! He believed that and isn't the only one as I mentioned. I have no reason of any kind to think that's a bogus claim. And unless you can prove it is a bogus claim I'm going with what was said. Prove it's a bogus statement. If ya can't then it isn;t.....got it little man? Are you really dumb enought to think White would have passed an NFL physical...hahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now, why the lies about knowing about the knees? You didn't know shit and we both know it, I doubt you've even see White play
lol that was even weaker. you have some random guy on the internet, much like yourself, claiming that he failed phsyicals. where did he read that from? an internet article, an newspaper article? where? if it happened, you'd find it online.

i'm not lying about the knees, but you surely are lying about him failing physicals before the draft. why can't you just fess up to your lie instead of making it worse than it already is?

[Avante]

lol that was even weaker. you have some random guy on the internet, much like yourself, claiming that he failed phsyicals. where did he read that from? an internet article, an newspaper article? where? if it happened, you'd find it online.

i'm not lying about the knees, but you surely are lying about him failing physicals before the draft. why can't you just fess up to your lie instead of making it worse than it already is?

Dude, stop it ok? So you knew about the knees and thought the NFL didn't care,...hahahahaha!!!!!!!!! You're a liar guy, or just stupid.

I can't go any slower than this...

I had no reason to think a guy who can't even get under center is passing an NFL physical, what about that don't you get? I believed it and so far there is no reason not to.

Prove your point or shut the fuck up. I showed you someone talking about it, you haven't shown me shit.

Why lie about the knees thing?

[spurraider21]

Dude, stop it ok? So you knew about the knees and thought the NFL didn't care,...hahahahaha!!!!!!!!! You're a liar guy, or just stupid.

I can't go any slower than this...

I had no reason to think a guy who can't even get under center is passing an NFL physical, what about that don't you get? I believed it and so far there is no reason not to.

Prove your point or shut the fuck up. I showed you someone talking about it, you haven't shown me shit.

Why lie about the knees thing?
there is a difference between what you believe and what you claimed as fact no less than 8 times. you still can't admit that you just made it up. shocking

[Avante]

there is a difference between what you believe and what you claimed as fact no less than 8 times. you still can't admit that you just made it up. shocking

Are you kidding me?

Dude, I never doubted White had failed a physical, I'd read where he had (AS I SHOWED YOU) why would anyone doubt it? The guy would have failed a physical.

That's not lying stupid that's believing.......damn!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Is this little shit stupid or what, wow! The dummy...."yikes, White can hardly walk, I fucked up"....how do I get out of this?

Wow guy, you are one dumb fuck! I had a feeling you were an idiot....yep!

[spurraider21]

you are making that up. do you have any evidence to back up your claim? and some random guy on yahoo isn't evidence. is there an article or any sort of league source that said so? i dont think so. maybe you can prove me wrong and shut me up. i doubt it though. until then you are just lying and making stuff up

[Avante]

you are making that up. do you have any evidence to back up your claim? and some random guy on yahoo isn't evidence. is there an article or any sort of league source that said so? i dont think so. maybe you can prove me wrong and shut me up. i doubt it though. until then you are just lying and making stuff up

Are you people watching this out there? Is this ridiculous or what?

spurraider...........pay attention.

I had no reason...(ya with me son) ...to doubt what that guy said about White's failed physical,,,(can you grasp this?). Why would anyone think White could pass any physical (you getting confused)..ok? I nevrer ever ever doubted that happened until you challenged it (ya with me sonny). So I'm thinking it happened (you don't get it..right?)

Man, hahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!....wow! Dude....hahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!


Obviously the little shit totally fucked up trying to talk about a gimp the NFL was never going to draft because...he could hardly walk. But the boy didn't know this, so he had to do something to save face......YOU LIED ABOUT...hahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So obvious it's comical.

Avante...it's midnight
spurraider...YOU LIED YOU LIED ITS' 1AM~~~~~
Avante...I guess the battery died.
spurraider....YOU SHOULD HAVE KNOWN THAT, YOU LIED YOU LIED!

Hahahaha!!!!!!!!!!....poor little kid.

I'm in the white t-shirt, spurraider in the ball cap

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfBppeD550o&feature=related

Teach this little bitch to fuck around with me.

[Avante]

If I'm the Rams I'm checking into Mark Sanchez. He'd be their best bet.

I'll guess...hmmmm?....week 8, Cousins puts RGIII on the bench.

I'd love to see the conference thing dumped. Try something else, why not have a Niners vs Seahawks SB, or a Broncos vs Pats?

First big play of 2014.....Jets minus the points..???

If ya watch high school ball, what's pretty cool is the stadiums are usually so small the camera's are low so ya get a real tight look at things.

[spurraider21]

Pardon me for going to sleep. I asked you to provide verification for your claim and you found some random guy on yahoo who said it, and not a single actual article. Whether you believed he was lying or not is irrelevant.

The he reason why I remember Jason white well (well enough that a brought him up as soon as you asked) is because USC played Oklahoma in 2005 in whites last game. I've watched him play.

[Avante]

Pardon me for going to sleep. I asked you to provide verification for your claim and you found some random guy on yahoo who said it, and not a single actual article. Whether you believed he was lying or not is irrelevant.

The he reason why I remember Jason white well (well enough that a brought him up as soon as you asked) is because USC played Oklahoma in 2005 in whites last game. I've watched him play.

Why are you struggling with this as badly as you are?

Back in 2006 I was talking football on boards similiar to this one. We talked about all this back then. Someone mentioned he'd failed a physical, ok that's easy to buy. I saw no reason to...oh yeah well prove it! He would have failed a physical. When you challenged it....THEN..like in...THEN...was the only time I ever thought about it. I then knew it wouldn't be hard to prove it, so I went looking for those old conversations....I have no idea where they went but I did find that guy talking about it. So I'm now still thinking, yep he failed a physical.

See how that went down?

The bottom line guy is this isn't really about that, it's about you being unaware of his bad knees then trying to play it off, when it's totally obvious. Why you can't....ok ok I didn't know about the knees...????

But...this really is getting boring now, ok? Actually losing interest.

[spurraider21]

your "supposed" discussion on a football board and a random guy from yahoo answers is not proof that Jason White failed physicals before the draft

[Avante]

your "supposed" discussion on a football board and a random guy from yahoo answers is not proof that Jason White failed physicals before the draft

Not too sharp are ya skippy?

I was convinced that happened, I don't go around assuming everyone is lying. I took their word for it because it made all the sense in the world. I had no reason to.....PROVE IT!

So why do you continue to get all wrapped up in that when the important thing here is you trying to sell a guy the NFL was never going to draft? I;m done talking about the physical, let's talk about this...ok?

[spurraider21]

good to hear that you're done lying about jason white's physical. now back to football

[Avante]

good to hear that you're done lying about jason white's physical. now back to football

The only liar here was you and it was so obvious. I will give ya props however that....you lied about.....smart move. Get this off the fact you knew nothing about the knees.

Dude, you fooled nobody, ok?

[spurraider21]

apology accepted

[Avante]

apology accepted

translation

That damn Avante, he knew I knew nothing about the knees, and I know he still thinks White failed a physical. I hurt all over from the beating I took, but I did learn something.........stay at my level not ready to take on the big boys.

Booty was drafted in the 5th round.

[spurraider21]

:lol translation: i made that shit up about white failing a pre-draft physical, which is why instead of finding an actual article about it, i cite my alleged "old sports messageboard conversations" as well as a random yahoo user

but i will go down with this ship

[Avante]

:lol translation: i made that shit up about white failing a pre-draft physical, which is why instead of finding an actual article about it, i cite my alleged "old sports messageboard conversations" as well as a random yahoo user

but i will go down with this ship

Little man, why try to prove things you assume are true, why are you not getting that? I still think it's true. Are you working at not getting this?

All you are trying to do with that is get away from your lie about the knees, you really think it isn't obvious, hahaha!!!!! Come on man, own up, you lied and it's obvious.

[spurraider21]

Little man, why try to prove things you assume are true, why are you not getting that? I still think it's true. Are you working at not getting this?

All you are trying to do with that is get away from your lie about the knees, you really think it isn't obvious, hahaha!!!!! Come on man, own up, you lied and it's obvious.
just because you incorrectly assumed it to be true doesn't make it true. you still made it up and said it about a dozen times in this thread instead of saying "ok, maybe he didn't fail a physical, but he still had shaky knees."

that would still be an appropriate rebuttal, but you insist on sticking with the lie and looking foolish

[Avante]

just because you incorrectly assumed it to be true doesn't make it true. you still made it up and said it about a dozen times in this thread instead of saying "ok, maybe he didn't fail a physical, but he still had shaky knees."

that would still be an appropriate rebuttal, but you insist on sticking with the lie and looking foolish

So what does any of that have to do with you lying about his knees? Why lie about something you obviously knew nothing about?

Dude, if you would have known about his knees you would have known that's why he wasn't drafted.

You're a liar guy.

[spurraider21]

So what does any of that have to do with you lying about his knees? Why lie about something you obviously knew nothing about?

Dude, if you would have known about his knees you would have known that's why he wasn't drafted.

You're a liar guy.
to be fair, i can't promise you that i'm in the head of all the GM's that passed on jason white. i think a large part of it had to do with him having a poor arm and no mobility. he still had a poor arm and no mobility in college, but it didnt stop him from having heisman type seasons. its not like his knees suddenly imploded between his college career and the draft.

with that same token, he was still trying to play in the NFL, trying out for a couple of teams. he did call it quits after starting full time practicing, citing his knees, but that doesn't necessarily mean its the only reason he wasn't drafted. almost any source you look at for his scouting reports will tell you they were scared off by his arm and his mobility issues.

the mobility issues did come from knee injuries in the past, but he well played at an elite COLLEGE level despite those limitations.

unlike you, i am not the one inventing wild allegations, in your case, you conjured his "failed pre-draft physicals" out of thin air to try to stick to your guns.

the main point of this conversation (the origins, at least) was to talk about how college stats are not the only indicators and often not the most important indicators when it comes to projecting NFL talents. even before his knees gave out, scouts were concerned that his arm and mobility would render him ineffective in the pros, even though those same arm/mobility questions didn't stop him from playing at a heisman-level in the college game

[spurraider21]

john david booty put up solid numbers while playing for USC but was a draft afterthought. Matt Flynn led LSU to a title but was a 7th round pick

[Avante]

First off how do I conjure things out of thin air when I took you to where I read it? Yep..you're lying!

Second of all if a QB has bad knees that with also hurt his ability to throw a football. Simply common sense.

The bottom line is real simple, you brought up a guy who was never going to be drafted.....because of his knees. Then once I let you in on that you saw your mistake and have been trying to cover it up ever sense with....YOU LIED...when all I actually did was convey info I'd read.

Another bottom line is, hell yes NCAA play is a huge part in this, and only a total fool wouldn't understand that. It is the college game that attracts the NFL, a league that wants to know how long your farts last. They pick at everything they can and we all know this. To think passer rating, average per carry, average per reception, average distance on a punt etc etc aren't real important don't understand the game. You come off as a guy who thinks he knows the game but doesn't.

[Avante]

john david booty put up solid numbers while playing for USC but was a draft afterthought. Matt Flynn led LSU to a title but was a 7th round pick

Trent Dilfer won a Superbowl.

Why not do just a tad bit of homework, ok? Dude, check out Flynns numbers...ok? Something you obviously didn't do?

So what was the deal with Booty, you tell me.

[spurraider21]

Trent Dilfer won a Superbowl.

Why not do just a tad bit of homework, ok? Dude, check out Flynns numbers...ok? Something you obviously didn't do?

So what was the deal with Booty, you tell me.
i did look up flynn's numbers. that's why i didnt say "flynn put up good numbers"

sheesh you're not good at this, are you fella

[Avante]

i did look up flynn's numbers. that's why i didnt say "flynn put up good numbers"

sheesh you're not good at this, are you fella

I;m not the guy thinking....but he led them to a Championship....means shit to to the NFL. They know how those games were won.

Why was Booty a draft afterthought?

[spurraider21]

lack of size, mediocre arm strength, inconsistency with his deep ball.

he also came out a week before the draft and stated he wanted to get picked by the Vikings. he was not very highly touted before that anyway, and we've seen teams select players despite their wishes plenty in the NFL. teams will draft talent if they see fit. the chargers drafted Eli, the colts drafted Elway, etc.

but Booty had solid statistical years playing for an elite NCAA program while also having winning seasons.

[Avante]

lack of size, mediocre arm strength, inconsistency with his deep ball.

he also came out a week before the draft and stated he wanted to get picked by the Vikings. he was not very highly touted before that anyway, and we've seen teams select players despite their wishes plenty in the NFL. teams will draft talent if they see fit. the chargers drafted Eli, the colts drafted Elway, etc.

but Booty had solid statistical years playing for an elite NCAA program while also having winning seasons.

Where do I start?

Booty was 6-3 218....lack of size? And he was not a draft...afterthought....the Vikings took him in the 5th round.

Do I really need to go on, ok I will...
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2011/profiles/john%20david-booty?id=2002


John David Booty (born January 3, 1985) is a former American football (http://www.spurstalk.com/wiki/American_football) quarterback (http://www.spurstalk.com/wiki/Quarterback). He was drafted by the Minnesota Vikings (http://www.spurstalk.com/wiki/Minnesota_Vikings) in the fifth round of the 2008 NFL Draft (http://www.spurstalk.com/wiki/2008_NFL_Draft). He last played for the Houston Texans (http://www.spurstalk.com/wiki/Houston_Texans) until being cut on September 4, 2010. He played college football (http://www.spurstalk.com/wiki/College_football) at USC (http://www.spurstalk.com/wiki/USC_Trojans_football).

While the Vikes took him in the 5th round he was their second pick. Hardly a ....draft afterthought.


2008
1. ..... NO CHOICE. Traded to Kansas City for DE Jared Allen.
2. ..... TYRELL JOHNSON (43), S, Arkansas State.
3. ..... (A) NO CHOICE. Traded to Kansas City for DE Jared Allen.
3. ..... (B) NO CHOICE. Traded to Kansas City for DE Jared Allen.
4. ..... NO CHOICE. Traded to Philadelphia in exchange of draft picks.
5. ..... (A) JOHN DAVID BOOTY (137), QB, Southern California. Choice from Green Bay in exchange of draft picks.
5. ..... (B) LETROY GUION (152), DT, Florida State. Choice from Philadelphia in exchange of draft picks.
6. ..... (A) JOHN SULLIVAN (187), C, Notre Dame. Choice from Kansas City in exchange of drat picks.
6. ..... (B) JAYMAR JOHNSON (193), WR, Jackson State. Choice from Jacksonville in Troy Williamson trade.
7. ..... NO CHOICE. Traded to Green Bay in exchange of draft picks.

Being the 6th QB taken is a.....draft afterthought?


Drafted Quarterbacks


NAME
POS
SCHOOL
ROUND
PK(OVR)
TEAM


Matt Ryan (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/player/_/id/11586/draftyear/2008)
QB
Boston College (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/school/_/id/2089/draftyear/2008)
1 (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/round/_/round/1/draftyear/2008)
3(3)
Atlanta (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/team/_/team/atl/draftyear/2008)


Joe Flacco (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/player/_/id/11486/draftyear/2008)
QB
Delaware (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/school/_/id/2148/draftyear/2008)
1 (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/round/_/round/1/draftyear/2008)
18(18)
Baltimore (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/team/_/team/bal/draftyear/2008)


Brian Brohm (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/player/_/id/12009/draftyear/2008)
QB
Louisville (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/school/_/id/2249/draftyear/2008)
2 (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/round/_/round/2/draftyear/2008)
25(56)
Green Bay (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/team/_/team/gnb/draftyear/2008)


Chad Henne (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/player/_/id/12045/draftyear/2008)
QB
Michigan (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/school/_/id/2291/draftyear/2008)
2 (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/round/_/round/2/draftyear/2008)
26(57)
Miami (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/team/_/team/mia/draftyear/2008)


Kevin O'Connell (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/player/_/id/11708/draftyear/2008)
QB
San Diego State (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/school/_/id/2399/draftyear/2008)
3 (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/round/_/round/3/draftyear/2008)
31(94)
New England (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/team/_/team/nwe/draftyear/2008)


John David Booty (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/player/_/id/11740/draftyear/2008)
QB
USC (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/school/_/id/2450/draftyear/2008)
5 (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/round/_/round/5/draftyear/2008)
2(137)
Minnesota (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/team/_/team/min/draftyear/2008)


Dennis Dixon (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/player/_/id/11955/draftyear/2008)
QB
Oregon (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/school/_/id/2347/draftyear/2008)
5 (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/round/_/round/5/draftyear/2008)
21(156)
Pittsburgh (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/team/_/team/pit/draftyear/2008)


Josh Johnson (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/player/_/id/11706/draftyear/2008)
QB
San Diego (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/school/_/id/2374/draftyear/2008)
5 (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/round/_/round/5/draftyear/2008)
25(160)
Tampa Bay (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/team/_/team/tam/draftyear/2008)


Erik Ainge (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/player/_/id/11766/draftyear/2008)
QB
Tennessee (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/school/_/id/2428/draftyear/2008)
5 (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/round/_/round/5/draftyear/2008)
27(162)
NY Jets (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/team/_/team/nyj/draftyear/2008)


Colt Brennan (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/player/_/id/11634/draftyear/2008)
QB
Hawaii (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/school/_/id/2202/draftyear/2008)
6 (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/round/_/round/6/draftyear/2008)
20(186)
Washington (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/team/_/team/was/draftyear/2008)


Andre' Woodson (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/player/_/id/11985/draftyear/2008)
QB
Kentucky (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/school/_/id/2236/draftyear/2008)
6 (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/round/_/round/6/draftyear/2008)
32(198)
NY Giants (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/team/_/team/nyg/draftyear/2008)


Matt Flynn (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/player/_/id/12001/draftyear/2008)
QB
LSU (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/school/_/id/2250/draftyear/2008)
7 (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/round/_/round/7/draftyear/2008)
2(209)
Green Bay (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/team/_/team/gnb/draftyear/2008)


Alex Brink (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/player/_/id/12203/draftyear/2008)
QB
Washington State (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/school/_/id/2471/draftyear/2008)
7 (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/round/_/round/7/draftyear/2008)
16(223)
Houston (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/team/_/team/hou/draftyear/2008)

[spurraider21]

a 5th round QB pick is generally an afterthought. if a team is serious about a QB they wont last that far

[Avante]

a 5th round QB pick is generally an afterthought. if a team is serious about a QB they wont last that far

Nice try guy, but.....you thought he wasn't even drafted. That's why you ran this.....look at Eli and Elway by me. Booty wanted to play for the Vikes (or so you said) and they drafted him. So what do Eli and Elway have to do with anything?

And....6-3 218 ..is a size issue?


Do your homework slick, I do....ok?

Curious how ya try to wiggle out of another fuck up. This should be good:lmao

[spurraider21]

Nice try guy, but.....you thought he wasn't even drafted. That's why you ran this.....look at Eli and Elway by me. Booty wanted to play for the Vikes (or so you said) and they drafted him. So what do Eli and Elway have to do with anything?

And....6-3 218 ..is a size issue?


Do your homework slick, I do....ok?

Curious how ya try to wiggle out of another fuck up. This should be good:lmao
when did i say he wasn't drafted? late round picks are afterthoughts

[spurraider21]

i brought up elway and eli as examples of teams that will draft a QB regardless of his desires to play elsewhere. if teams thought Booty was any good, they would have picked him higher than the 5th round. i brought up the elway and eli examples so you can't use the excuse of "teams were scared off by him because he specifically said he wants to play for another team."

when have you ever see a team pick a QB in the 5th round or later with the intention of him being a regular starter? almost every starting QB in the NFL was a 3rd round pick or higher, with random exceptions like Brady and Romo here and there.

only the patriots, cowboys, and texans dont currently have a top 3 round QB as their starter or proposed QB of the future. for this reason i will call a 5th round pick QB an afterthought without second guessing myself

[Avante]

Not buying it slugger, you made it known Flynn was taken in the 7th round. If you'd of known Booty was taken in the 5th you'd mentioned that also. The 6th QB taken, an afterthought? A teams second draft pick an afterthought?

I noticed you keep ignoring...6-3 218.....why?

Did you read that draft analyisis......of course not.

Then there's...

The coach also discussed USCs John David Booty, who the Bears passed on in the fourth round to draft LSU safety Craig Steltz, and Michigans Chad Henne, who the Bears could have nabbed in the second round.

“We kind of liked [Booty] too. We felt he was going to be maybe the most initially ready to play quarterback in the draft. We didnt know how much upside he had, but hes polished and he played in a really good, pro-style system at SC. All the concepts the NFL runs are very similar to what they were doing. Hes pretty polished. Very accurate on intermediate stuff to low. As it got deep down the field, it didnt always happen for him, but thought that he was polished and certainly could be a No. 2 for a long time and maybe could be a No. 1 but we didnt really project him that high.”

[spurraider21]

sure, i goofed on Booty's size :lol... i'm willing to admit when i was wrong. if i thought Booty was undrafted i would have put it in those words, just like i did with Jason White

[spurraider21]

Not buying it slugger, you made it known Flynn was taken in the 7th round. If you'd of known Booty was taken in the 5th you'd mentioned that also. The 6th QB taken, an afterthought? A teams second draft pick an afterthought?

I noticed you keep ignoring...6-3 218.....why?

Did you read that draft analyisis......of course not.

Then there's...

The coach also discussed USCs John David Booty, who the Bears passed on in the fourth round to draft LSU safety Craig Steltz, and Michigans Chad Henne, who the Bears could have nabbed in the second round.

“We kind of liked too. We felt he was going to be maybe the most initially ready to play quarterback in the draft. We didnt know how much upside he had, but hes polished and he played in a really good, pro-style system at SC. All the concepts the NFL runs are very similar to what they were doing. Hes pretty polished. Very accurate on intermediate stuff to low. As it got deep down the field, it didnt always happen for him, but thought that he was polished and [B]certainly could be a No. 2 for a long time and maybe could be a No. 1 but we didnt really project him that high.”
and this despite putting up good numbers in an elite conference... just making my point

[Avante]

and this despite putting up good numbers in an elite conference... just making my point

Why ignore..."most intially ready to play QB in the draft?"

And.....why do you continue to ignore 6-3 218?

Check it out....
Copyright NFLDraftScout.com, distributed by The Sports Xchange.
Analysis

Analysis Positives: Has a linear build with adequate muscle thickness and good size for his position...Shows good acceleration on the move and runs with a normal stride...Has the balance and agility to step up and avoid pressure and enough functional hip swerve to slide in the pocket...Has a business-like approach to the game and has been well tutored on how to run an offense, thanks to his family's deep football tradition...Shows the confidence in his arm strength to air the ball out and make all of the throws...Does a decent job of adjusting to game action on the field, but must be quicker in making those decisions at times (will look a bit confused when forced out of the pocket)...Has enough strength to step up and absorb the hit when the pocket collapses...Has the body control to drop back quickly from center to his throwing point, but is best when throwing from the pocket...Throws with zip, but must do it with better consistency...Generally makes good decisions, except when pressured...Has adequate toughness in the pocket and will deliver the ball on time when given proper protection...Has a take-charge attitude in the huddle and the players all respect his leadership ability...Might be a better fit for a short-to-intermediate or West Coast passing attack, as he shows much better accuracy and timing when he sets his feet properly and puts zip on the ball to connect with his targets coming out of their breaks (has a better feel for taking something off the ball working underneath on his short throws and has better accuracy working in this area)...Has adequate slide agility trying to escape from the rush (lacks foot quickness), but will buy time with his strength absorbing hits in the pocket...Once he locates the blitz, he is very efficient at getting the ball out quickly to connect with his target in stride...Showed vast improvement in 2007 in attempts to scan the field and locate his secondary targets (would like on to his primary receiver too much in 2006), showing good accuracy on crossing routes...Has decent awareness to blitzes and stunts, doing a nice job of making adjustments during the pre-snap (has become a much better progression reader) or when reading coverage as he is dropping back to his throw point, demonstrating the ability to check down quickly...Has much better timing throwing over the middle than when firing along the sidelines...Better when throwing from the right hash, but is more comfortable when he steps up in the pocket, as he works well when given time to scan the field and find where his receivers should be than throwing on the move (has better velocity throwing from the right than at the left hash).

[spurraider21]

Why ignore..."most intially ready to play QB in the draft?"
and despite that they said he's a backup and MAYBE one day a 1


And.....why do you continue to ignore 6-3 218?
i dont. i already admitted my error, unlike you with jason white


Check it out....
Copyright NFLDraftScout.com, distributed by The Sports Xchange.
Analysis

Analysis Positives: Has a linear build with adequate muscle thickness and good size for his position...Shows good acceleration on the move and runs with a normal stride...Has the balance and agility to step up and avoid pressure and enough functional hip swerve to slide in the pocket...Has a business-like approach to the game and has been well tutored on how to run an offense, thanks to his family's deep football tradition...Shows the confidence in his arm strength to air the ball out and make all of the throws...Does a decent job of adjusting to game action on the field, but must be quicker in making those decisions at times (will look a bit confused when forced out of the pocket)...Has enough strength to step up and absorb the hit when the pocket collapses...Has the body control to drop back quickly from center to his throwing point, but is best when throwing from the pocket...Throws with zip, but must do it with better consistency...Generally makes good decisions, except when pressured...Has adequate toughness in the pocket and will deliver the ball on time when given proper protection...Has a take-charge attitude in the huddle and the players all respect his leadership ability...Might be a better fit for a short-to-intermediate or West Coast passing attack, as he shows much better accuracy and timing when he sets his feet properly and puts zip on the ball to connect with his targets coming out of their breaks (has a better feel for taking something off the ball working underneath on his short throws and has better accuracy working in this area)...Has adequate slide agility trying to escape from the rush (lacks foot quickness), but will buy time with his strength absorbing hits in the pocket...Once he locates the blitz, he is very efficient at getting the ball out quickly to connect with his target in stride...Showed vast improvement in 2007 in attempts to scan the field and locate his secondary targets (would like on to his primary receiver too much in 2006), showing good accuracy on crossing routes...Has decent awareness to blitzes and stunts, doing a nice job of making adjustments during the pre-snap (has become a much better progression reader) or when reading coverage as he is dropping back to his throw point, demonstrating the ability to check down quickly...Has much better timing throwing over the middle than when firing along the sidelines...Better when throwing from the right hash, but is more comfortable when he steps up in the pocket, as he works well when given time to scan the field and find where his receivers should be than throwing on the move (has better velocity throwing from the right than at the left hash).
you can give me all the analysis you want, end of the day he was a 5th round pick and nobody projected him to be a starter

[Avante]

Hey spurraider......prove to me that Booty's size was an issue come draft time, I want to see this, ok?

Ok shine that. I se where ya...finally....admitted your mistake.

[Avante]

and despite that they said he's a backup and MAYBE one day a 1


i dont. i already admitted my error, unlike you with jason white


you can give me all the analysis you want, end of the day he was a 5th round pick and nobody projected him to be a starter

I read somewhere that White had failed a physical, you simply made ...size was an issue..up, big difference. I can show you where I got..failed physical...you can't show me where you got....size issue.

You lied!

Funny how if I say....he failed a physical...it's..YOU LIED YOU LIED!
But if you take a guy 6-3 218 and say ..his lack of size...you made an error....hahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[spurraider21]

I read somewhere that White had failed a physical, you simply made ...size was an issue..up, big difference. I can show you where I got..failed physical...you can't show me where you got....size issue.

You lied!

Funny how if I say....he failed a physical...it's..YOU LIED YOU LIED!
But if you take a guy 6-3 218 and say ..his lack of size...you made an error....hahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i have admitted twice (and now a third time) that i was wrong about booty's size. that's the difference. you are still hanging onto your lie about the failed physical. i have come clean

[Avante]

i have admitted twice (and now a third time) that i was wrong about booty's size. that's the difference. you are still hanging onto your lie about the failed physical. i have come clean

Do you even understand what a lie is? When I said White failed a physical I'm thinking he did, how do you keep not getting that? I..STILL..think he did. You on the other hand totally made...his size....up. I didn't make anything up as I showed you I read about it, you read nothing.

You simply lied!

[spurraider21]

Do you even understand what a lie is? When I said White failed a physical I'm thinking he did, how do you keep not getting that? I..STILL..think he did. You on the other hand totally made...his size....up. I didn't make anything up as I showed you I read about it, you read nothing.

You simply lied!
i corrected myself and owned up to my incorrect statement

while you may have believed your story about the failed physical at first, the fact that you still spit it out shows that right now you are lying. either admit to your mistake and say "i have no basis to support my claim that he failed a pre-draft physical" or continue to lie

[Avante]

i corrected myself and owned up to my incorrect statement

while you may have believed your story about the failed physical at first, the fact that you still spit it out shows that right now you are lying. either admit to your mistake and say "i have no basis to support my claim that he failed a pre-draft physical" or continue to lie



One more time...

When White was coming out of Oklahoma there was talk of him failing a physical. I showed you another guy talking about it. I have no reason to think they were/are lying.

You on the other hand read nobody talking about Booty's lack of size as a draft factor, so you didn't....incorrect statement....you simply made shit up, yep..lied! Just like you did about the knees.

You're a liar!

Here's what I'm going to do...

Because of internet chatter I was led to believe that Javon White failed a physical prior to the NFL draft. Apparently no information can be found supporting that claim.. So I'll retract my previous claim until something concrete can be found.

[spurraider21]

One more time...

When White was coming out of Oklahoma there was talk of him failing a physical. I showed you another guy talking about it. I have no reason to think they were/are lying.

You on the other hand read nobody talking about Booty's lack of size as draft factor, so yoi didn't....incorrect statement....you simply made shit up, yep..lied! Just like you did about the knees.

You're a liar!
i have retracted that statement about 4 times already. i'm not a liar. i made a mistake and owned up to it.

you continue to lie. you supposedly "heard about it" and one random fucker on yahoo "heard" about it ahahahahahaha. but it never happened. surely it would be a huge story if a heisman winner actually failed a physical leading up to the draft. but there's no documentation of it anywhere. you are sticking to your guns on this story which has zero proof.

:lol you have "faith" that he failed a physical

[Avante]

i have retracted that statement about 4 times already. i'm not a liar. i made a mistake and owned up to it.

you continue to lie. you supposedly "heard about it" and one random fucker on yahoo "heard" about it ahahahahahaha. but it never happened. surely it would be a huge story if a heisman winner actually failed a physical leading up to the draft. but there's no documentation of it anywhere. you are sticking to your guns on this story which has zero proof.

:lol you have "faith" that he failed a physical

Look above.

You don't seem to comprehend things too well. I saw no reason not to believe it. So I never challenged it. When I brought it to your attention I was sold on it......that's a being a liar....or someone who is thinking something is true?

You just made up...his size...that wasn't my situation, I simply passed along something said by others. See the difference, ya don't do you?

[Avante]

Moving on...finally!

So how many weeks before...

JohnnyFootball takes over?

RGIII is benched.

The Raiders realize Schaub sucks?

Andrew Luck has a two INT game?

The Seahawks lose a game?

Someone calls Michael Sam a faggot?

[spurraider21]

Look above.

You don't seem to comprehend things too well. I saw no reason not to believe it. So I never challenged it. When I brought it to your attention I was sold on it......that's a being a liar....or someone who is thinking something is true?

You just made up...his size...that wasn't my situation, I simply passed along something said by others. See the difference, ya don't do you?
what you believe is irrelevant at this point. based on your fruitless searches except for "a yahoo guy" we can come to the conclusion that no physical happened, otherwise there would be a story on it. to continue pounding that point is flat out lying right now. you weren't intentionally misinforming me earlier, you believed it. fine. now that we know, you are lying

[Avante]

what you believe is irrelevant at this point. based on your fruitless searches except for "a yahoo guy" we can come to the conclusion that no physical happened, otherwise there would be a story on it. to continue pounding that point is flat out lying right now. you weren't intentionally misinforming me earlier, you believed it. fine. now that we know, you are lying

Ya know how I know all about them blues/sprinters? Well the guy who first brought this up was like that, he knew a lot of inside shit about the NFL. That's why I was so sold on it and didn't question it. The guy wasn't the type to post anything he wasn't sure about. And then when looking for that I accidently came across that other guy talking about it. And I've read about it from another poster back then. So there's three saying the same thing about this, so where did they get it and none of them knew each other(different sites). I am curious about what gave these guys the impression that happened?

Why the lie about Whites knees, do you really think I or anyone really believes you were going to use a guy the NFL had no intrention of drafting (because of those knees) as an example of something/anything? Come on man that makes no sense at all.

But....really am getting bored with this now, I was sold on something and you lied about something. Done talking about it and won't be any longer. So no need to waste your time responding.

[spurraider21]

Ya know how I know all about them blues/sprinters? Well the guy who first brought this up was like that, he knew a lot of inside shit about the NFL. That's why I was so sold on it and didn't question it. The guy wasn't the type to post anything he wasn't sure about. And then when looking for that I accidently came across that other guy talking about it. And I've read about it from another poster back then. So there's three saying the same thing about this, so where did they get it and none of them knew each other(different sites). I am curious about what gave these guys the impression that happened?

Why the lie about Whites knees, do you really think I or anyone really believes you were going to use a guy the NFL had no intrention of drafting (because of those knees) as an example of something/anything? Come on man that makes no sense at all.

But....really am getting bored with this now, I was sold on something and you lied about something. Done talking about it and won't be any longer. So no need to waste your time responding.
i didnt lie. i immediately retracted it when i found out it was false. you've stuck with your false claim and still do :lol

:lol random yahoo guy as proof

[Avante]

Poor little guy, hahaha!!!!!!!!

Fuck it, let's have some music.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-NlR54PqLw

[Avante]

I'd like to see the Niners bring in Jacoby Ford, see what he can do.

Giants receiver...Corey Washington out of Newberry. looks like a stud.

In all my track/football years I've never heard of.....Newberry.

So many great receivers coming out of these...who? where?...schools.

[Avante]

Dan Fouts was talking about Rivers and Gates, that stud QB/TE, combo...hmmmm?

Johnny Unitas/John Mackey
Len Dawson/Fred Arbansas
Dan Fouts/Kellen Winslow
Troy Aikman/John Novacek
John Elway/Shannon Sharpe
Dree Brees/Jimmy Graham
Philip Rivers/Antonio Gates
Tony Romo/Jason Witten
Kenny Stabler/Dave Casper

Hmmmm?

[Pelicans78]

Dan Fouts was talking about Rivers and Gates, that stud QB/TE, combo...hmmmm?

Johnny Unitas/John Mackey
Len Dawson/Fred Arbansas
Dan Fouts/Kellen Winslow
Troy Aikman/John Novacek
John Elway/Shannon Sharpe
Dree Brees/Jimmy Graham
Philip Rivers/Antonio Gates
Tony Romo/Jason Witten
Kenny Stabler/Dave Casper

Hmmmm?

No love for Montana/Young and Brent Jones?

P.S., It's Jay Novacek.

BTW Drew Brees and Gates were a nice combo for two seasons.

Tom Brady and Gronk

Don't forget Bobby Hebert and Hoby Brenner.

[Pelicans78]

Peyton Manning/Dallas Clark

[Avante]

No love for Montana/Young and Brent Jones?

P.S., It's Jay Novacek.

BTW Drew Brees and Gates were a nice combo for two seasons.

Tom Brady and Gronk

Don't forget Bobby Hebert and Hoby Brenner.

John.....DUH!!!!!!!!!!!

A Niner fan not having Brent Jones.....(shaking head)

Yep...Brady/Gronk

Not sure about Hebert and Brenner?

Add...Ken Anderson/Bob Trumpy

[Avante]

Peyton Manning/Dallas Clark

Bingo~~~~~~~

[Avante]

We can talk about....Danny Woodhead...here, hahaha!!!!!!!!! My..."White Runningbacks"....thread, hahaha!!!!!

Whoa....Tony Gerhart!!!

[spurraider21]

peyton hillis can outrun you though

[Avante]

peyton hillis can outrun you though

Let's put it this way...

When I was a running back/sprinter I was faster than Hillis. As a retired x-running back/sprinter.....it would be close.
:hat

[Avante]

So which team is the best vs the spread in week one? Let's go back 4 seasons.

4-0

Arizona

The worst?

0-4

Carolina
Indy

There are two plays that jump out at me...

Steelers vs Hoyer
Jets vs...???

Browns have sucked in Pitt, the Raiders have sucked on the East Coast.

[Avante]

Announcer in the Clemson/Georgia game says...."track guys usually aren't running backs"....that isn't true. There have been tons of track guys play running back.

How about...

Adrian Peterson
Chris Johnson
Jamaal Charles
C.J.Spiller
Reggie Bush
DeAnthony Thomas
Tyreek Hill

now add....

Bob Hayes
Eric Dickerson
Bob Paremore
Milt Campbell
Jim Thorpe
Eugene White
Andrew Hopkins
Paul Warfield
Stone Johnson
Joe Delaney
Justin Fargas
Napolean Kaufman
Buddy Young
James Owens
Javid Best
Robert Smith
Billy Cannon
Darrin Nelson
Ollie Matson
Herschel Walker
Lance Alworth
Bo Jackson
O.J.Simpson
Sultan McCullough
Gale Sayers
Paul Lowe
Hugh McElhenny
Terry & Eric Metcalf
Johnny Hector
Tyrone Wheatley
Warrick Dunn
Cyril Pinder
Delvin Williams
Travis Williams
Michael Bennett
Bobby Mitchell
Jeff Demps
Trindon Holliday

[Avante]

Small school receiver Jeff Janis made the Packers. He's a blurr.

[Avante]

Well our O line is now intact (best in the business)

I would have kept that RB Winston and dump James.

[Avante]

Ray McDonald arrested on domestic violence, shessh~~~~~~

[Pelicans78]

Well our O line is now intact (best in the business)

I would have kept that RB Winston and dump James.

Your starting center the last 3 seasons is starting for the Saints again.

[Avante]

Your starting center the last 3 seasons is starting for the Saints again.

Fourh year player Daneil Gilgore can handle it. And we did draft a center in Marcus Martin.

Still the best line in football.

[Avante]

I'm going to try and average 10 wins a week, and it isn't easy....trust me. I've onLy done it once before, I usualy go 9-7. Keep in mind the bye weeks. I want to hit 170 wins. That is my goal.

Now before ya....picking straight up...hahaha!!!!!!! Ok then take me on.

I'll have my plays before Sunday, my Thursday pick right now.

Seahawks

[Avante]

My first $$$$ of the 2014 NFL season...

NYJets minus the points.

A rookie QB on the road in a "spot" the Raiders historically suck in.

Yep, a gift.

[spurraider21]

My first $$$$ of the 2014 NFL season...

NYJets minus the points.

A rookie QB on the road in a "spot" the Raiders historically suck in.

Yep, a gift.
how much are you putting? lets keep a bet tracker going again

[DD]

My first $$$$ of the 2014 NFL season...

NYJets minus the points.

A rookie QB on the road in a "spot" the Raiders historically suck in.

Yep, a gift.

Thanks for the tip.

Just put 2 units on the Raiders:tu

[Avante]

how much are you putting? lets keep a bet tracker going again

Not sure, it depends on how many other plays I can find before Sunday.

Do you see the logic behind the play, do you understand what's going on there?

[Avante]

Thanks for the tip.

Just put 2 units on the Raiders:tu

So you have no problems backing a rookie QB on the road vs a team that has owned the Raiders va the number?

The Raiders went 1-6 vs the numbers the lasr 7 games of 2013, the Jets covered everry HF role last season. And.....beat the Raiders by 10.

[DD]

Oh it's great logic, can't argue with that...but you're snakebitten, bro. that's bad juju

[spurraider21]

Not sure, it depends on how many other plays I can find before Sunday.

Do you see the logic behind the play, do you understand what's going on there?
sure. i've learned to pretty much never put money on the raiders

[Avante]

Oh it's great logic, can't argue with that...but you're snakebitten, bro. that's bad juju

Let's see what happens.

[Avante]

sure. i've learned to pretty much never put money on the raiders

So you have faith in your rookke QB to be do what no other Raider QB could do in over 10 years....right? The last two games in NY vs the Jets they gave up 60 scored 24.

[spurraider21]

So you have faith in your rookke QB to be do what no other Raider QB could do in over 10 years....right? The last two games in NY vs the Jets they gave up 60 scored 24.
what are you yammering on about? i just told you i wouldn't bet on the raiders

but your "in over 10 years" logic is still laughable to me. as if andrew walter/jamarcus russell and their miserable performance bear any weight as to this sunday's matchup :lol

[Avante]

what are you yammering on about? i just told you i wouldn't bet on the raiders

but your "in over 10 years" logic is still laughable to me. as if andrew walter/jamarcus russell and their miserable performance bear any weight as to this sunday's matchup :lol

Lost to Jets 10-26
Lost to Jets 3-23
Lost to Buffalo 23-24
Lost to Giants 7-44
Lost to Buffalo 35-38
Lost to Giants 20-24
Lost to Jets 27-37

It didn't matter who was at QB or what team they had, the "franchise" has proven they suck in that time zone. Just reality.

The Jets were 100% vs the line as home favorites in 2013, now they play a team they have totally owned with a rookie QB, boy this is a tough one.

[spurraider21]

Lost to Jets 10-26
Lost to Jets 3-23
Lost to Buffalo 23-24
Lost to Giants 7-44
Lost to Buffalo 35-38
Lost to Giants 20-24
Lost to Jets 27-37

It didn't matter who was at QB or what team they had, the "franchise" has proven they suck in that time zone. Just reality.

The Jets were 100% vs the line as home favorites in 2013, now they play a team they have totally owned with a rookie QB, boy this is a tough one.
the only remnant of our "franchise" form most of those games is sebastian janikowski. we even have a different owner since then. sorry bub, i just dont buy the "games from a decade ago" argument. i know the raiders suck, and if u want to pick the jets because the raiders suck and they're on the road, then i won't really complain

[Avante]

the only remnant of our "franchise" form most of those games is sebastian janikowski. we even have a different owner since then. sorry bub, i just dont buy the "games from a decade ago" argument. i know the raiders suck, and if u want to pick the jets because the raiders suck and they're on the road, then i won't really complain

Not just talking about about a decade go...bub. They lost in 2013 and 2012 and 2011 and.....on the east coast.

In 2013 lost in Giants/Jets
In 2012 lost in Miami
In 2011 lost in Buffalo
In 2009 lost in Giants

...you really don't seem to understand...trends.

Do you get the...longgggggg flight, different time zone for one team/sleeping in own bed for the other.........thing at all?

Check it out....

Raiders beat Jets 34-24 in Oakland 2011
Raiders beat Jets 16-13 in Oakland in 2008

Hmmmm?

[spurraider21]

thats cool. the raiders are a bad team and they have a long road trip. thats sound reasoning.

but i dont care what they did with an entirely different roster in recent years. from last season to this season alone we have 15 new starters out of 22 positions.

only returning starters are:
FB: Marcel Reece
C: Stephen Wisniewski
WR: Rod Streater
TE: Mychael Rivera

LB: Sio Moore
LB: Nick Roach
FS: CHarles Woodson

[Avante]

thats cool. the raiders are a bad team and they have a long road trip. thats sound reasoning.

but i dont care what they did with an entirely different roster in recent years. from last season to this season alone we have 15 new starters out of 22 positions.

only returning starters are:
FB: Marcel Reece
C: Stephen Wisniewski
WR: Rod Streater
TE: Mychael Rivera

LB: Sio Moore
LB: Nick Roach
FS: CHarles Woodson

You're really not getting it guy.

TIME ZONES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Avante]

Studying the line these plays have my attention...

Pitt
NO
NE
Det
Chi
Den

minus the points.

I need to take that down to two. I wll play Jets minus the number.

[Aztecfan03]

Being the 6th QB taken is a.....draft afterthought?


Drafted Quarterbacks


NAME
POS
SCHOOL
ROUND
PK(OVR)
TEAM


Matt Ryan (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/player/_/id/11586/draftyear/2008)
QB
Boston College (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/school/_/id/2089/draftyear/2008)
1 (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/round/_/round/1/draftyear/2008)
3(3)
Atlanta (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/team/_/team/atl/draftyear/2008)


Joe Flacco (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/player/_/id/11486/draftyear/2008)
QB
Delaware (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/school/_/id/2148/draftyear/2008)
1 (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/round/_/round/1/draftyear/2008)
18(18)
Baltimore (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/team/_/team/bal/draftyear/2008)


Brian Brohm (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/player/_/id/12009/draftyear/2008)
QB
Louisville (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/school/_/id/2249/draftyear/2008)
2 (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/round/_/round/2/draftyear/2008)
25(56)
Green Bay (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/team/_/team/gnb/draftyear/2008)


Chad Henne (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/player/_/id/12045/draftyear/2008)
QB
Michigan (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/school/_/id/2291/draftyear/2008)
2 (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/round/_/round/2/draftyear/2008)
26(57)
Miami (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/team/_/team/mia/draftyear/2008)


Kevin O'Connell (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/player/_/id/11708/draftyear/2008)
QB
San Diego State (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/school/_/id/2399/draftyear/2008)
3 (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/round/_/round/3/draftyear/2008)
31(94)
New England (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/team/_/team/nwe/draftyear/2008)


John David Booty (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/player/_/id/11740/draftyear/2008)
QB
USC (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/school/_/id/2450/draftyear/2008)
5 (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/round/_/round/5/draftyear/2008)
2(137)
Minnesota (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/team/_/team/min/draftyear/2008)


Dennis Dixon (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/player/_/id/11955/draftyear/2008)
QB
Oregon (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/school/_/id/2347/draftyear/2008)
5 (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/round/_/round/5/draftyear/2008)
21(156)
Pittsburgh (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/team/_/team/pit/draftyear/2008)


Josh Johnson (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/player/_/id/11706/draftyear/2008)
QB
San Diego (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/school/_/id/2374/draftyear/2008)
5 (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/round/_/round/5/draftyear/2008)
25(160)
Tampa Bay (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/team/_/team/tam/draftyear/2008)


Erik Ainge (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/player/_/id/11766/draftyear/2008)
QB
Tennessee (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/school/_/id/2428/draftyear/2008)
5 (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/round/_/round/5/draftyear/2008)
27(162)
NY Jets (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/team/_/team/nyj/draftyear/2008)


Colt Brennan (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/player/_/id/11634/draftyear/2008)
QB
Hawaii (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/school/_/id/2202/draftyear/2008)
6 (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/round/_/round/6/draftyear/2008)
20(186)
Washington (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/team/_/team/was/draftyear/2008)


Andre' Woodson (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/player/_/id/11985/draftyear/2008)
QB
Kentucky (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/school/_/id/2236/draftyear/2008)
6 (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/round/_/round/6/draftyear/2008)
32(198)
NY Giants (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/team/_/team/nyg/draftyear/2008)


Matt Flynn (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/player/_/id/12001/draftyear/2008)
QB
LSU (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/school/_/id/2250/draftyear/2008)
7 (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/round/_/round/7/draftyear/2008)
2(209)
Green Bay (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/team/_/team/gnb/draftyear/2008)


Alex Brink (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/player/_/id/12203/draftyear/2008)
QB
Washington State (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/school/_/id/2471/draftyear/2008)
7 (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/round/_/round/7/draftyear/2008)
16(223)
Houston (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/team/_/team/hou/draftyear/2008)




WHen you are taken after Kevin O'connel, yes.

[Avante]

WHen you are taken after Kevin O'connel, yes.

When you are a teams second pick, that's hardly an after thought.

[Avante]

So which teams come out of the block firing and which sputter?

Firing the last 4 years....all 4-0

Chicago
Houston
NE ...actually haven't lost in week one in over 10 years
Niners are 3-0 since Harbaugh

Sputter 0-4

Cleveland actually haven't won in week one since 2004
Carolina

[Avante]

By the end of 2014, I do expect RW/Luck to start being spoken about as....The Elite QB's. Yes right behind the Big Five.

[Avante]

Gotta love those Cowboys.

1000 yard running back out of.....Yale!!!

Midget at QB?

"Hollywood"

A strange/weird running back out of West Texas State.

The Worlds Fastest Human.

Drafting.....Carl Lewis.

Lance Rentzel..??????

Golden Richards

"Dandy" Don

Pete Gent

"Too Tall"

"Manster?

And now...The Faggot

[Avante]

Less than 24 hours from now we'll be seeing the games most complete QB when Russel Wilson takes the field. The ultimate blend of intelligence/mobility/passing. The definitive....dual purpose QB.

He's already done things never done before by second year QB's, I look for him to do things never done by any third year QB's this season.

[pgardn]

the only remnant of our "franchise" form most of those games is sebastian janikowski. we even have a different owner since then. sorry bub, i just dont buy the "games from a decade ago" argument. i know the raiders suck, and if u want to pick the jets because the raiders suck and they're on the road, then i won't really complain

And this is exactly why avante sucks at this.

[Avante]

And this is exactly why avante sucks at this.

How many Superbowls have Detroit and Cleveland played in amigo?

How many times has NE won in week one in the last 10 years?

How many times has Cleveland won in Pitt in the last 10 years?

How many times has Oakland won in NYstate in the last 10 years?

How many times has LSU lost in week one in the last 10 years?

How many times has Texas lost in week one in the last 10 years?

How many times has USC lost in week one in the last 10 years?

Well?

[spurraider21]

i bet if red hits 3 straight times avante will bet his house on it to hit red again. its a trend.

[chunticakes]

Avante why don't you put your money where your mouth is and join spurraider21's pick em league? $350 buy in for a season. If you're as good as you claim you are I have no doubt you'd dominate. :lol

[Avante]

i bet if red hits 3 straight times avante will bet his house on it to hit red again. its a trend.

Since RW/Luck showed up in Seattle/Indy the two teams are.....26-11 and 22-13, or...48-24 ATS. That's just betting those two teams every single week knowing they will end up winning $$$$ for you. Now give me one reason to see that changing in 2014. Both RW/Luck will be getting better with another NFL season.

In the Harbaugh era the Niners have gone 34-19ATS. In the last two seasons...22-14. So if ya just backed Niners/Sea/Indy every game....70-38. I need to ignore all that....why?

Since Peyton showed up in Denver they have gone...22-13. Now add that to the above and we have...92-51.

Just play those 4 teams every single week in 2014 and you are going to win. No way in hell that's going to flip flop over a year.

And it goes on and on. Hell, there are teams that suck before a bye week, some are great coming off a bye. What, you ignore all this?

Why not know all you can? Can you really afford not to?

[Avante]

Avante (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=33483) why don't you put your money where your mouth is and join spurraider21's pick em league? $350 buy in for a season. If you're as good as you claim you are I have no doubt you'd dominate. :lol

I do put $$$$ where my mouth is.

[Avante]

Week 1 su picks

Seahawks
Saints
Rams
Steelers
Eagles
Jets
Bengals
Texans
Chiefs
Pats
Niners
Buc's
Broncos
Bears
Lions
Chargers

If you disagaree lets have it.."before"...the game, ok?

Looking to go 10-6 or better.

[Avante]

Don't act like a bunch of rookies ok guys? No Texas A&M isn't that good and no South Carolina isn't that bad, it's the same in the NFL. Don't over react to a few weeks. Remember the Niners were 1-2, Carolina 1-3, the Bears 3-1.

Be cool, not...see see I told you....after a couple games, that's....rookie! Give things some time.

Houston started out 2-0, would end up 2-14, classic example of what I'm talking about.

[spurraider21]

same old story, same old song and dance.

your picks sucked at the start of last season and you pulled this excuse, yet your picks continued to suck as the season went on.

then you blamed "voodoo" :lol
then you claimed you gave us the opposite of your actual picks :lol
then you claimed judy has you by the balls and didnt let you place the bets you claimed to have made :lol

[Avante]

same old story, same old song and dance.

your picks sucked at the start of last season and you pulled this excuse, yet your picks continued to suck as the season went on.

then you blamed "voodoo" :lol
then you claimed you gave us the opposite of your actual picks :lol
then you claimed judy has you by the balls and didnt let you place the bets you claimed to have made :lol

I wasn't even talking about picks, I was talking about getting a real read on the teams. Those numbers were straight up not ATS.

But since you brought it up....

Obviously the voodoo thing was a joke. Everything else was just me messing with Blake. It was fucking funny watching the guy ...SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO...worried about me.

How does anyone that just showed you how to hit with Sea/Den/Niners/Indy, understand all those trends not win vs the NFL spread?

[Avante]

A few things I expect to see this month....

Serious talk about RGIII being benched.

Dri Archer have a...WOW!....play.

Serious talk about Manziel starting.

Raider fans all excited over Carr.

Russell Wilson getting more fans.

Andrew Luck...hmmm?...3 ints.

[Avante]

Keep an eye on..."white lightnin' '"....tonight, that would be Packer receiver Jeff Janis,

[spurraider21]

how many of your "keep an eye on" players have actually done anything?

[Avante]

how many of your "keep an eye on" players have actually done anything?

How's bout....

Tyreek Hill
Dri Archer
Derrick Henry
Russell Wilson

This Janis kid is from a small school, but for a white cat he has some serious jets. Which is a rarity as we know. Hell, he might not even play tonight but if he does do something it won't be..."who is this guy?" Because I told ya about him, see how that works?

I mentioned Terrence West and read.."an obscure"..player, hahaha!!!!!! Only "obscure" to those who don't know the college game.

Why this need to challenge everything I say? Dude, I saw your Raiders play their very first game, ya pick up a few things along the way....honest!

[chunticakes]

Avante join the pickem pool then.

[Avante]

Avante (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=33483) join the pickem pool then.

I simply prefer the phone call, I'm not pushed for time. I won't have my picks until sometime Saturday night. And I get my money ...now.

[chunticakes]

You prefer to get on your rotory dial phone and call your buddy?