Shams: Spurs Waive Josh Primo

[ElNono]

Can we add this emoticon to the site please, under :primo:

https://smileyshack.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/flashing31.gif

[lefty20]

1586859405399793671

[BackHome]

Unlike the Dallas situation, which this is absolutely NOT, the player in question was here for just over a year. Mark Cuban was looking the other way regarding a sexual predator in his front office for 20 YEARS - the team President! Essentually the same level as RC Buford. Cubes paid some people off, and got away with it. Mavies also had a team photographer also harassed women who worked for the team. Apples compared to oranges..

Yeah Dallas had a whole bunch of shit regarding sexual harassment it was getting bad and then all of a sudden it all stopped. I am sure the Mavs organization paid some big money and a couple of ladies are very financially happy. And it was 10 times as bad as what is happening with Primo - In the end money makes a lot of problems go away ie Kobe, Watson, etc.

[Dejounte]

Primo brought a new generation of dick jokes. It’s a new era, boys.

[FlAVaK]

I am not a bad wagoner fan and just leave after one guy retired.

Accurate Freudian slip/typo:

You may not be a bandwagoner,
but you are a bad wagoner overall.

[weebo]

Depends if the organization was trying to keep it under wraps and enabling anything. The Kobe situation for example was all Kobe. The Spurs organization isn’t going under but people could lose their jobs. Sound better?

Do you think RC or Pop are losing their jobs? If anyone else loses work because of this, does it really matter? The Spurs lose employees every year to other organizations. Nothing changes.

[The Truth #6]

Do you think RC or Pop are losing their jobs? If anyone else loses work because of this, does it really matter? The Spurs lose employees every year to other organizations. Nothing changes.

Thanks, Camus.

[lmbebo]

Apparently he's cleared waivers.

[Dverde]

Apparently he's cleared waivers.

I figured Doc and Morey would claim him. I put nothing beneath them. Sit him out a few months and try to bring him back.

[K...]

I figured Doc and Morey would claim him. I put nothing beneath them. Sit him out a few months and try to bring him back.

Its almost certain that primo wouldn't report and that would be a can of worms on top of inheriting the legal mess

[buttsR4rebounding]

:lmao PATFO getting Paterno'd

That's exactly what I thought.

[baseline bum]

I figured Doc and Morey would claim him. I put nothing beneath them. Sit him out a few months and try to bring him back.

Coc needs to win right now and Peenmo is still a scub level player and major project

[offset formation]

Do you think RC or Pop are losing their jobs? If anyone else loses work because of this, does it really matter? The Spurs lose employees every year to other organizations. Nothing changes.

If they knew of his history, then yes absolutely. If not, then no. Not too hard.

[Arcadian]

Spurfan thinking that the Primo situation is going to hurt the Spurs organization is laughable. This is the NBA...it'll get swept under the rug. How many times have we've seen players do terrible things...Jr Smith killing his friend, Kobe raping, etc...those organizations are still standing.

Kobe wouldn't get off so easy in 2022 though.

[Floyd Pacquiao]

Of course a sexual deviant like Dcock Rivers would welcome Primo

[BatManu20]

Cleared waivers.

1587187691329912834

[LkrFan]

Can we add this emoticon to the site please, under :primo:

https://smileyshack.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/flashing31.gif

:lol

[LkrFan]

Cleared waivers.

1587187691329912834

Spurs still gotta pay him?

[mystargtr34]

Spurs still gotta pay him?

Yes by NBA rules. I’m sure they could get out of paying him if they wanted to via the legal route. They may want to just pay him to support him through his own inevitable legal issues but who knows

[LkrFan]

Yes by NBA rules. I’m sure they could get out of paying him if they wanted to via the legal route. They may want to just pay him to support him through his own inevitable legal issues but who knows

Throw him in a Russ trade package :D

[lefty20]

Spurs still gotta pay him?

Yup, unless there some sort of morality clause or what not in the contract.

But I'm not sure those trigger unless there some official criminal charges are brought forward. I guess it would all depend on the language of the contract.

My guess is that Spurs would rather just pay him and not have this dragged to court.

I'm sure u know better than we do about how having your Franchise associated with a sexual deviant can harm it's image.

[objective]

76ers didn't have the caproom to sign Primo off waivers.

[Mugen]

Philly sounds like a realistic option especially with them losing two 2nd rounders for tampering.

Toronto makes sense as well.

He'll definitely be signed by the start of next year, my guess is he'll be on a roster by the end of this season tbh.

[BackHome]

Kobe wouldn't get off so easy in 2022 though.

If the Flakers were winning then yeah he would get off easy

[Maddog]

To sign him you have to have cap space to absorb his contract.
Forgot about optics.
Also not sure how this plays out but almost assuredly he's on a Visa
If there are legal proceedings this could be revoked.

[MannyIsGod]

To sign him you have to have cap space to absorb his contract.
Forgot about optics.
Also not sure how this plays out but almost assuredly he's on a Visa
If there are legal proceedings this could be revoked.

No, to claim him off waivers you needed caproom. At this point any team can sign him for the min.

[couchman]

And to think some people wanted the Spurs to try and trade him to "get some value" out of him lol.
No one wants Primo anytime soon y'all

[spurs10]

Can we add this emoticon to the site please, under :primo:

https://smileyshack.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/flashing31.gif Well this certainly exposes the depth of your depravity.

[Dejounte]

The allegations are coming from a former consulting PSYCHOLOGIST. That makes Primo’s public message even more ironic

[Dejounte]

How the fuck do you just flash your dick to a psychologist? Here I was thinking it was a former trainer, physician, someone who would go to the locker room area sometimes to talk to players… not a freaking psychologist.

[Ariel]

He exposed himself to a psychologist? or he admitted to the problem while under therapy?

[Dejounte]

He exposed himself to a psychologist? or he admitted to the problem while under therapy?

Exposed himself to a psychologist

[timvp]

https://twitter.com/DonHarris4/status/1587201781213417473

[timvp]

Primo sounds like a certified loon, tbh.

[Ariel]

Clearly the guy was a ticking time bomb. Good thing he didn't get to assault anyone while with the team. Hopefully.

[timvp]

https://www.livingmentalwellness.com/copy-of-the-team-1

My god, her credentials couldn't be any better and she should be the last person on earth a professional athlete should attack. Primo done goofed.

[Dejounte]

“and will now take this time to focus on my mental health treatment more fully,"

Imagine being his next psychologist.

Mental health treatment is for your head, Primo. Not your other head.

[timvp]

She'll be answering questions on Thursday? This could get ugly for the Spurs in a hurry if they knew anything and didn't act.


prayingdog.jpg @ the Spurs releasing Primo the instant something like this came to their attention. The alternative could be Paterno-esque, tbh.

[timvp]

“and will now take this time to focus on my mental health treatment more fully,"

Imagine being his next psychologist.

Mental treatment is for your head, Primo. Not your other head.

Yeah, Primo, bruh, your "mental health treatment" is what got you in trouble in the first place, apparently.

[timvp]

:lol @ the Spurs for picking Primo to promote Self.

[Kori Ellis]

:wow The last person I expected was a sports psychologist.

Hopefully the Spurs come out of this clean. She's going to be extremely credible if she says they knew about it.

[Chinook]

As I said, it being a former employee was a big deal. As far as I know, no one's confirmed the Four Seasons canon yet. So the suit could well be the actual motivating factor here. I also know that a psychologist is still a human and may not be willing to talk about what happened with their employers. But if anyone would be in a position to bring attention to it, it would be them. The only thing I could see is if the psychologist thought it might've been a strictly medical thing originally and covered by doctor/patient confidentiality but then after hearing it'd happened to someone else realized the dude was a sicko.

[Ariel]

Next thing to come out: Primo exposed himself while giving testimony in church.

[Chinook]

I'm still worried about Vassell being part of Primo's flash mob.

[offset formation]

The allegations are coming from a former consulting PSYCHOLOGIST. That makes Primo’s public message even more ironic

Holy shyte. Source?

Edit: Disregard. Saw the referenced info just below your post.

[lefty20]

I'm still worried about Vassell being part of Primo's flash mob.

Super unlikely. Spurs can't afford to fuck around with the incoming lawsuit. Vassell would've likely gotten the boot as well, imo.

[BillMc]

I'm still worried about Vassell being part of Primo's flash mob.

Why? Just cause he's out?

[timvp]

I'm still worried about Vassell being part of Primo's flash mob.

I'm not, tbh.

[Dejounte]

I'm still worried about Vassell being part of Primo's flash mob.

I’m sure the Spurs would have acted on that already if that was the case. It’s been a few days and he would’ve been suspended, fined, or waived as well already.

[baseline bum]

Well if the Spurs did know and try to cover this up then they deserve what's coming.

[baseline bum]

:lol @ the Spurs for picking Primo.

fify

[Leetonidas]

When did this woman stop working with the team? If it's been awhile then it seems like we know she's gonna say they knew about it

[objective]

A doctor probably isn't going to shut up and walk away for a cheap 50k like some intern

Not expecting the Spurs to take on any salary that takes them above the floor now to cover the upcoming payments

[Mugen]

There's no way the top brass is dumb enough to know about this prior to picking up his option and continue to talk about him being the future of the franchise...

But if they were, heads will roll :lmao

[BatManu20]

Flashed his pecker to a fucking team psychologist :lmao

What a dumbfuck. This is turning into a Jerry Springer episode. Pee-Wee Primo indeed :lol

[Mugen]

Why else have BWrong around if it wasn't for this exact situation to use as a fall guy :lol

[lefty20]

When did this woman stop working with the team? If it's been awhile then it seems like we know she's gonna say they knew about it

It's possible that she simply tendered her resignation without disclosing the incident because she was mulling over her legal options.

I heard somewhere that she's technically a contractor. So she may have reported it right away to her company, who then may or may not have taken their time before reporting it to the Spurs. Or simply reassigned her while they worked with her to discuss their legal options.

So many possibilities.... But yeah, as previously mentioned, if anyone in the Spurs org knew about this shit and let it fly then their heads gotta roll as well.

[ace3g]

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/706942258176614400/tv9P1s33_normal.jpg
Tom Orsborn Tom_orsborn
(https://twitter.com/tom_orsborn)8m (https://twitter.com/tom_orsborn/status/1587216127507238916)
In accordance with the adoption of new NBA rules that required teams to add at least one full-time licensed mental health professional - a psychologist or behavior therapist - to their staff, the Spurs in September 2021 announced the hiring of Hillary Cauthen.

[BatManu20]

Goddamn so this might’ve happened last season…

[mystargtr34]

1587113828298407946

[BatManu20]

1587113828298407946

:lol

[mystargtr34]

1586753386367488001

[mystargtr34]

Why else have BWrong around if it wasn't for this exact situation to use as a fall guy :lol

:lol come on man

[Mugen]

1587113828298407946

:lol

[John B]

1587113828298407946

:lmao

https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/blob:https://www.spurstalk.com/c2eedf91-b5e5-4db7-a6d1-ba6026996d7ehttps://smileyshack.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/flashing31.gif

[K...]

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/706942258176614400/tv9P1s33_normal.jpg
Tom Orsborn Tom_orsborn
(https://twitter.com/tom_orsborn)8m (https://twitter.com/tom_orsborn/status/1587216127507238916)
In accordance with the adoption of new NBA rules that required teams to add at least one full-time licensed mental health professional - a psychologist or behavior therapist - to their staff, the Spurs in September 2021 announced the hiring of Hillary Cauthen.

i know shes probably going to talk but i would redact the name for obvious reasons.

[K...]

A doctor probably isn't going to shut up and walk away for a cheap 50k like some intern

Not expecting the Spurs to take on any salary that takes them above the floor now to cover the upcoming payments

never mind

[toki9]

How does patient confidentiality work on something like this? What can the therapist disclose if this happened in a session? This is so messed up.

[Chinook]

i know shes probably going to talk but i would redact the name for obvious reasons.

She's already been announced. You can certainly file a suit and remain anonymous, but it doesn't seem like that's the plan anymore. The lawyer himself already said her name.

[K...]

She's already been announced. You can certainly file a suit and remain anonymous, but it doesn't seem like that's the plan anymore. The lawyer himself already said her name.

still with online you never what is going to trigger a gamergate. people should be aware of that shit.

[LkrFan]

Yup, unless there some sort of morality clause or what not in the contract.

But I'm not sure those trigger unless there some official criminal charges are brought forward. I guess it would all depend on the language of the contract.

My guess is that Spurs would rather just pay him and not have this dragged to court.

I'm sure u know better than we do about how having your Franchise associated with a sexual deviant can harm it's image.

That's a low blow :cry :lol

#ItWasConsensual :lol

[ace3g]

Tom Petrini realTomPetrini
(https://twitter.com/RealTomPetrini)6m (https://twitter.com/RealTomPetrini/status/1587224970282893312)
The law firm representing the former Spurs consulting psychologist says they will address "the veracity of recent public statements made by both the Spurs organization and Primo, interactions with individuals within the San Antonio Spurs organization."

[LkrFan]

1587113828298407946

:rollin :lmao :rollin

[Leetonidas]

That doesn't sound good...

Though the Spurs didn't really make a statement requiring a check of veracity considering all they said was they're releasing Primo and that was basically it

[Chinook]

still with online you never what is going to trigger a gamergate. people should be aware of that shit.

That's very true. I'm pretty curious about the press conference in the first place. Is that normal? I sort of figured you just filed your suit and went with it. Primo doesn't feel like a big enough fish to where you HAVE to wage this war in arena of public opinion. But if they were going after the Spurs mostly, I feel like we'd already know.

I wasn't the biggest fan of Buzbee though. Even though I believe the victim and want folks punished, I wonder if it helps the turn this into a circus. The truth should come out in the court, so what's the point of doing the conference other than to cause a media uproar?

[RC_Drunkford]

I don't remember where I read it, but there was an article saying that the psychiatrist actually helped the Spurs in their investigation. Hopefully that's true and she doesn't throw the organization under the bus

[T Park]

So this is arguably the worst issue for the Spurs in their history?

Rod Strickland I believe got in trouble for the same thing exposing himself, on top of getting in a fight at a bar and breaking his hand mid season

[Chinook]

I don't remember where I read it, but there was an article saying that the psychiatrist actually helped the Spurs in their investigation. Hopefully that's true and she doesn't throw the organization under the bus

As far as I know, the story about the Spurs doing an investigation is just part of the "Four Seasons Canon" as I've been calling it. I don't know that anything substantiated about what led to Primo's termination has been announced. There's a timeline where the Spurs immediately took seriously the first accusation they heard, investigated it, got the testimony for the psychologist, hooked her up with a lawyer and immediately waived Primo. But there's also a timeline where the Spurs downplayed/ignored rumblings about Josh's proclivities, including from their former psychologist, and then they heard she got a lawyer and planned to sue, which made them dump Primo.

[OldMan88]

Note to file: Don’t hire any more female consultants to work with horny young men.

[BatManu20]

Note to file: Don’t hire any more female consultants to work with horny young men.

The NBA has seen thousands of horny young men pass through over the past 50 years. Almost never do they just whip their dick out and flash members of the team staff. This is just Primo being a fuckin’ weirdo.

[Chinook]

Note to file: Getting sued for gender discrimination is fun, hopefully.

[T Park]

The NBA has seen thousands of horny young men pass through over the past 50 years. Almost never do they just whip their dick out and flash members of the team staff. This is just Primo being a fuckin’ weirdo.

I’d put money on it happening and we’ve just never heard about it…

[Ariel]

Note to file: Don’t hire any more female consultants to work with horny young men.
That's basically not hiring ANY female consultants PERIOD.

[RC_Drunkford]

damn Primo really wants to fuck anything huh?

https://blacksportsonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/Dr-hillary-Cauthen-Josh-Primo.jpg

[Extra Stout]

Spouting woke rhetoric to the point of pissing off your fan base, while simultaneously covering for a sexual predator, is pretty close to Peak White Liberal.

[Arcadian]

:lol

[BatManu20]

I’d put money on it happening and we’ve just never heard about it…

Prob. But even then it’s likely pretty rare. In this day and age you have to be a complete dumbass to think you can get away with it. Primo is basically Radio with his level of intellect thinking this would go unnoticed or unreported.

[CGD]

Tom Petrini realTomPetrini
(https://twitter.com/RealTomPetrini)6m (https://twitter.com/RealTomPetrini/status/1587224970282893312)
The law firm representing the former Spurs consulting psychologist says they will address "the veracity of recent public statements made by both the Spurs organization and Primo, interactions with individuals within the San Antonio Spurs organization."

Damn, they think they have something on the Spurs org.

[Spurs Homer]

The lakers defended and kept a rapist….(RIP)

and

the spurs immediately denounced and got rid of a sexual deviant

(hopefully the spurs organization was not complicit in any way or tried to hide anything primo did)

just goes to show the difference in teams/franchises integrity

[CGD]

That's very true. I'm pretty curious about the press conference in the first place. Is that normal? I sort of figured you just filed your suit and went with it. Primo doesn't feel like a big enough fish to where you HAVE to wage this war in arena of public opinion. But if they were going after the Spurs mostly, I feel like we'd already know.

I wasn't the biggest fan of Buzbee though. Even though I believe the victim and want folks punished, I wonder if it helps the turn this into a circus. The truth should come out in the court, so what's the point of doing the conference other than to cause a media uproar?

You answered your own question at the end. Narratives are super important for leverage
in building legal cases, and the lawyer directing the strategy knows the spurs have invested so much in their boyscout image. He’s banking they will be desperate to make this go away.

[Olberding]

I wonder if H-E-B will continue to use Primo Picks, which I believe existed before Josh Primo, in their branding. Maybe it will depend on how big the Josh Primo story gets.

[vy65]

lol flashing goat to the Spurs' Wendy Rhodes
lol posturing this as the result of some kind of trauma
lol Self
lol with the 12th pick in the 2021 NBA draft ...
lol Brian Wrong
lol GM suffering from fetal alcohol syndrome
lol spurs

[GAustex]

^that is going hard in the paint

[vy65]

As far as I know, the story about the Spurs doing an investigation is just part of the "Four Seasons Canon" as I've been calling it. I don't know that anything substantiated about what led to Primo's termination has been announced. There's a timeline where the Spurs immediately took seriously the first accusation they heard, investigated it, got the testimony for the psychologist, hooked her up with a lawyer and immediately waived Primo. But there's also a timeline where the Spurs downplayed/ignored rumblings about Josh's proclivities, including from their former psychologist, and then they heard she got a lawyer and planned to sue, which made them dump Primo.

The Spurs hooked her up with a lawyer .... so that she could sue the Spurs? Do you really think SS&E has Tony Buzbee on their short list?

[vy65]

There's no way the top brass is dumb enough to know about this prior to picking up his option and continue to talk about him being the future of the franchise...

But if they were, heads will roll :lmao

Bro, with this organization, I wouldn't be surprised if they intentionally paid him the cash so that he could fund his legal defense and/or pay the plaintiff off.

[ducks]

She'll be answering questions on Thursday? This could get ugly for the Spurs in a hurry if they knew anything and didn't act.


prayingdog.jpg @ the Spurs releasing Primo the instant something like this came to their attention. The alternative could be Paterno-esque, tbh.
Good changes need to happen



They would be fools two weeks ago to pick up his option
If they did they deserve what they get

[Uriel]

There is significant interest in monitoring Primo's future among numerous NBA teams, team executives told ESPN.
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/34920213/former-spurs-guard-joshua-primo-clears-waivers-sources-say

[TDomination]

1587113828298407946
:lmao

hilarious

[Chinook]

The Spurs hooked her up with a lawyer .... so that she could sue the Spurs? Do you really think SS&E has Tony Buzbee on their short list?

Think you're misinterpreting what I wrote. Basically there is a scenario where the Spurs handled this absolutely right at all times, even to the point of being self-sacrificing. And there's a scenario where they were conspirators with Primo. I thought RCD was running with a scenario close to ideal for the Spurs.

My guess is that the Spurs knew about Primo at least by the time the incident with the psychologist happened. The Spurs probably told Primo he had one more chance, and when the hotel thing happened and was confirmed, they cut him. Assuming they took precautions to make sure staffers weren't put in vulnerable positions around him, it's possible they met their actual burden. It's not clear that an accusation, even a credible one, would warrant announcing it to the world. We don't know if the psychologist came forward to the team and if she did, if she had a recommendation for what to do. For all we know, she told them to give him another chance and that his actions come from mental health issues. They may have worked with her on precautions before she left. Or she may have told them he should be let go, and they were like, "Assuming we keep him, how can we try to prevent this from happening again?"

There are so many different ways to interpret the situation. I don't think the Spurs are going to come out of this as cartoon villains or heartless. I think they're going to come out as a team that tried to work with a troubled player whom they thought was taking the steps he needed to to get better. They were doing the same thing some team is going to end up doing eventually. I know from experience that a lot of people with these types of problems are really good at pretending like they're taking accountability and thus avoiding the confrontation that is needed to address the issue. I think the Spurs wanted to believe Primo, and Primo was good at lying to himself and others to allay their concerns. I do think the Spurs released him hoping it would be the wake-up call he needed to fix his shit so he could come back. But I doubt they'll feel the same way once this whole thing is over. Primo used them, and their letting themselves get used might've caused suffering to others. If this psychologist isn't the only staff member Primo did this to, then this is going to get really ugly. The hotel worker is bad enough. But if the Spurs knew Primo was a risk to the work environment and they inadequately protected their employees from that risk, it'll cost jobs.

[ElNono]

Well this certainly exposes the depth of your depravity.

Is this thing even a crime in west LA? :lol

Lakers are desperate too…

[vy65]

Think you're misinterpreting what I wrote. Basically there is a scenario where the Spurs handled this absolutely right at all times, even to the point of being self-sacrificing. And there's a scenario where they were conspirators with Primo. I thought RCD was running with a scenario close to ideal for the Spurs.

My guess is that the Spurs knew about Primo at least by the time the incident with the psychologist happened. The Spurs probably told Primo he had one more chance, and when the hotel thing happened and was confirmed, they cut him. Assuming they took precautions to make sure staffers weren't put in vulnerable positions around him, it's possible they met their actual burden. It's not clear that an accusation, even a credible one, would warrant announcing it to the world. We don't know if the psychologist came forward to the team and if she did, if she had a recommendation for what to do. For all we know, she told them to give him another chance and that his actions come from mental health issues. They may have worked with her on precautions before she left. Or she may have told them he should be let go, and they were like, "Assuming we keep him, how can we try to prevent this from happening again?"

There are so many different ways to interpret the situation. I don't think the Spurs are going to come out of this as cartoon villains or heartless. I think they're going to come out as a team that tried to work with a troubled player whom they thought was taking the steps he needed to to get better. They were doing the same thing some team is going to end up doing eventually. I know from experience that a lot of people with these types of problems are really good at pretending like they're taking accountability and thus avoiding the confrontation that is needed to address the issue. I think the Spurs wanted to believe Primo, and Primo was good at lying to himself and others to allay their concerns. I do think the Spurs released him hoping it would be the wake-up call he needed to fix his shit so he could come back. But I doubt they'll feel the same way once this whole thing is over. Primo used them, and their letting themselves get used might've caused suffering to others. If this psychologist isn't the only staff member Primo did this to, then this is going to get really ugly. The hotel worker is bad enough. But if the Spurs knew Primo was a risk to the work environment and they inadequately protected their employees from that risk, it'll cost jobs.

So if I have you right, you think there’s a scenario where the psychologist told the spurs to give primo another shot after he exposed himself to her - only for her to lawyer up after he exposed himself again to another women. That is beyond stupid - she wouldn’t lawyer up after an incident involving a third party if she waived her claim by going along with the spurs giving primo more rope to hang himself with. If the psychologist truly wanted to give Primo a second chance, why would she renege and lawyer up when he exposed himself to another. Tony Buzbee is not going to take a case that will hurt his profile as a plaintiffs lawyer and/or doesn’t have a damages model worth his while. What you’re describing is the type of thing plaintiffs attorneys avoid. Absolutely none of what you said makes sense given the anticipated lawsuit.

All of which says nothing about the workplace environment SS&E would be creating in that hypothetical. They have a known sexual assailant on their hands and, despite being confronted with victims who the Spurs believe to be telling the truth, nevertheless allow Primo to run amok? That’s the definition of gross negligence - intentional disregard of a known risk.

I don’t know of any “precautions” you could plausibly take to address that situation - do you think the spurs made Primo wear a chastity belt?

Sexual assault is never something that you gloss over with another chance - particularly in this social climate.

[ElNono]

Gonna be interesting to hear how many millions are needed to appease the big trauma and emotional distress she suffered from seeing BBC…

[ducks]

Gonna be interesting to hear how many millions are needed to appease the big trauma and emotional distress she suffered from seeing BBC…

Yeah seeing such a small dick must be very emotional unstable just ask the lawyer

[Joseph Kony]

Yeah seeing such a small dick must be very emotional unstable just ask the lawyer
we can just ask your wife instead tbh

[BatManu20]

Gonna be interesting to hear how many millions are needed to appease the big trauma and emotional distress she suffered from seeing BBC…

:lol

I imagine the cross examination of the witness going something like this tbh.

https://media4.giphy.com/media/fSYmbgG5Ug8S11K0FU/200.gif

[Chomag]

Could be enough scandal here to what gets the Sprs org. Sold to Austin

[Joseph Kony]

Could be enough scandal here to what gets the Sprs org. Sold to Austin

please. look at all the shit with the Mavericks FO and nothing happened to them. Hefty fine and penalty? maybe within the realm of possibility. But being forced to sell the team and move over Primo whipping his dick out? :lol come on

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Could be enough scandal here to what gets the Sprs org. Sold to Austin

More like the Sin City Spurs. Gearing up for the big Vegas move. They’re going to pack up in the middle of the night like when the Raiders moved to LA.



*blue font*

[ElNono]

:lol

I imagine the cross examination of the witness going something like this tbh.

https://media4.giphy.com/media/fSYmbgG5Ug8S11K0FU/200.gif

“At that moment plaintiff saw a snake-like figure and suddenly realized she won’t be able to have sexual intercourse with her husband anymore” :lol

[Chinook]

So if I have you right, you think there’s a scenario where the psychologist told the spurs to give primo another shot after he exposed himself to her - only for her to lawyer up after he exposed himself again to another women.

Yes, I think there's a scenario where you initially forgive/agree to overlook before you see it's a pattern. Or a scenario where the Spurs said, "We'll handle it" you believe them until you see it happens again. It doesn't look like she lawyered up when first happened. In most scenarios we're weighing, she only lawyers up after Primo gets waived.


If the psychologist truly wanted to give Primo a second chance, why would she renege and lawyer up when he exposed himself to another.

You're seriously asking why someone who gave Primo another chance would withdraw that good will after seeing him do the act again? That tends to be how second chances work.

Also, if you don't think women make those calculations for when to push for accountability on with SA/SH charges, you might not have looked into the matter too much.


Tony Buzbee is not going to take a case that will hurt his profile as a plaintiffs lawyer and/or doesn’t have a damages model worth his while. What you’re describing is the type of thing plaintiffs attorneys avoid. Absolutely none of what you said makes sense given the anticipated lawsuit.

Buzbee isn't Perry Mason. Most of the suits he brought up against Watson were dismissed. He doesn't have to take slam-dunk cases to help his image. Being known as the lawyer who seeks accountability against athletes is going to raise his profile. You're also treating this hypothetical delay in filing suit as if the psychologist signed an NDA and is breaking it. Typically speaking, if you do something -- formally or informally -- based on a condition and that condition is violated, you can withdraw the conditional thing you offered. There's currently no evidence that the psychologist immediately began procedures to filing suit after the incident. Something explains that delay, and those delays are extremely common anyway.


All of which says nothing about the workplace environment SS&E would be creating in that hypothetical. They have a known sexual assailant on their hands and, despite being confronted with victims who the Spurs believe to be telling the truth, nevertheless allow Primo to run amok? That’s the definition of gross negligence - intentional disregard of a known risk.

First, you're changing the scenario. We aren't talking about the Spurs at that point knowing about multiple charges among people in their organization. It's precisely that revelation that would do tremendous damage to their credibility. That hypothetical is a situation where they know of one accusation. One accusation, even if from someone credible, is not the same thing as a conviction or incontrovertible proof. Or it might be one incident coupled with Primo smoothing things over with both the Spurs and the psychologist. More than a regular victim, there's a very good possibility that the psychologist played an active role in how those early events played out. It's going to be really interesting to hear what she has to say, because we could end up learning a lot more about the team's decision-making than we would had she been a trainer or vendor.


I don’t know of any “precautions” you could plausibly take to address that situation - do you think the spurs made Primo wear a chastity belt?

So the choices on how to deal with SA/SH aren't just to lock every man who commits those actions away or to give up and have open season on women. Believe it or not, there are actual strategies to limit the chances of something occurring. Primo could be escorted at all times when on the team's property. All of the female staffers who might interact with Primo outside of public situations might have been re-assigned. It's possible the web some scenarios have the Spurs tracing to uncover the second incident might be part of the safeguards the team put in place. That might seem ludicrous to you, and in reality, it would've proved inadequate. But if Primo is the guys he's shaping up to be, he was probably really good at convincing the Spurs he was the straight-and-narrow and basically followed the rules until that stay in Minnesota. People can appear to change, convince others to forgive them and then backslide. Anyone who's actually dealt with people in similar situations (addiction, adultery, mental illness) know that these cycles of trust building and breaking aren't very uncommon. This is all hypothetical, but the Spurs would be responsible for getting caught in that and the damage to their employees that caused. But that's not necessarily the same thing as them not taking the issue seriously or trying to suppress it for PR reasons.


Sexual assault is never something that you gloss over with another chance - particularly in this social climate.

First, you're assuming some kind of assault when it might not be. There are degrees of indecent exposure (the thing Primo is actually being accused of). It can happened in conjunction with sexual assault, and some of the rumors suggest that it might have done so on at least one occasion. As a pattern, it's also an indicator of future more egregious sexual violence, which is why the Spurs were absolutely right to let him go after hearing it was a pattern or that he wasn't actually doing what he needed to to break the pattern (depending on the scenario). But it is something people can mature past or work their way through with the right intervention, which is what Primo's supposedly seeking now and what this scenario has the Spurs/the psychologist making a condition of further employment/not filing suit. I 100-percent agree it should always be taken seriously, but that doesn't always mean complete ostracization or court proceedings. If Primo wasn't lying, he probably does need help, and that help could go much further toward preventing another offense than simply suing him, firing him and never letting him earn a living. Then he'll just be a big strong mentally unstable dude roaming the streets of Toronto. It's not exactly the silver bullet solution.

[scott]

So if I have you right, you think there’s a scenario where the psychologist told the spurs to give primo another shot after he exposed himself to her - only for her to lawyer up after he exposed himself again to another women. That is beyond stupid - she wouldn’t lawyer up after an incident involving a third party if she waived her claim by going along with the spurs giving primo more rope to hang himself with. If the psychologist truly wanted to give Primo a second chance, why would she renege and lawyer up when he exposed himself to another. Tony Buzbee is not going to take a case that will hurt his profile as a plaintiffs lawyer and/or doesn’t have a damages model worth his while. What you’re describing is the type of thing plaintiffs attorneys avoid. Absolutely none of what you said makes sense given the anticipated lawsuit.

All of which says nothing about the workplace environment SS&E would be creating in that hypothetical. They have a known sexual assailant on their hands and, despite being confronted with victims who the Spurs believe to be telling the truth, nevertheless allow Primo to run amok? That’s the definition of gross negligence - intentional disregard of a known risk.

I don’t know of any “precautions” you could plausibly take to address that situation - do you think the spurs made Primo wear a chastity belt?

Sexual assault is never something that you gloss over with another chance - particularly in this social climate.

The alternative, quite plausible scenario:

The therapist reported the incident to the Spurs. The Spurs hired a third party to conduct an independent investigation, which turned out to be inconclusive or could not substantiate the claim (which does not mean it didn't happen). The Spurs communicated that to the therapist and she quit as a result. Later, more incidents became known to the Spurs, ones they could substantiate, so they immediately disciplined him by waiving him.

That leaves the question of the therapist lawyering up. I see two plausible scenarios here:

1. She lawyered up ahead of time, the Spurs were issued a demand letter (which almost always comes before anyone goes public, because in many cases your leverage is higher before you go public as the offending party will pay a premium to keep it from going public). This could have spurred (no pun intended) SS&E to dig deeper into allegations, or maybe it was the straw that broke the camels back, or maybe it was coincidental and led the Spurs to move on a termination they were making anyway. The worst case scenario, also probably the most likely for the Spurs, is that it moved them to take action immediately so that it appeared they are proactive.

2. Also quite plausible, the therapist had not lawyered up prior to Primo being terminated, and had kind of "moved on" because when an independent investigation takes place it typically gives the employer quite a bit of cover. Upon the news of Primo being waived, the therapist had a realization that maybe this is an opportunity to lawyer up or maybe she was telling friend "fuck that guy, this is what he did to me" and the friend said "you should get a lawyer!" That isn't to say the therapist was being opportunistic, but window had opened up with Primo being waived that perhaps she wasn't alone and this was a systemic issue. In a case like this, it isn't difficult to wind up with Tony Buzbee and for him to make a quick move to representation.

I do agree, however, that this is will probably be bad for SS&E, but not as bad as some might think (see Dallas Mavericks, Washington Football Team)

[scott]

Also, speaking from first hand experience, a lot of victims of workplace abuse/assault that is short of a physical assault/rape will say that they don't want anyone to get in trouble, they just want the behavior to stop. However, once investigations begin (which is the proper way to handle these situations - not by telling the perp to simply stop it), victims moods often change (I would argue this is a good thing) to a stance of wanting appropriate punishments handed down.

I have been involved in cases where a victim will say she doesn't want the perp punished, just for the behavior to stop - then an investigation comes back finding no credible evidence of the assault, and suddenly the victim changes heart. This is fairly understandable, as now you have a formal process that is effectively telling a victim they are wrong (which isn't necessarily the case, it is only saying that there is not credible evident of the assault beyond that person's word - which makes punishment difficult because now you are possibly facing unlawful termination and defamation issues).

I think it is entirely possible that is what happened here, though we're highly unlikely to fully know the details. We will likely eventually see a complaint filed that alleges the Spurs of being the worst people on the planet, responsible for global warming, Trump's election, cancer, the final season of GoT, etc. This is what plaintiff's attorney's do. We must also not jump to the conclusion that the Spurs are actually guilty of these things. I'd be willing to wager that the truth lies somewhere along the lines of the scenario I laid out above.

So, again - here is my guess of what "really" happened. This would also happen to be the absolutely best case scenario for the Spurs. This is "playing it by the book". It will still look bad for the Spurs.

1. Therapist is assaulted and she reports it.
2. Spurs hire a third party to conduct an independent investigation.
3. Investigation comes back inconclusive or unable to credibly substantiate the allegations.
4. Because of this, the therapist quits. The Spurs probably give Primo some kind of minor disciplinary action or warning.
5. More allegations eventually surface (maybe this Minnesota hotel thing). Spurs investigate and substantiate or decide where there is smoke there must be fire and terminate Primo.
6. Therapist sees this (and maybe talks to friends still at SS&E who tell her what happened) and decides it's time to lawyer up.

[kht]

Also, speaking from first hand experience, a lot of victims of workplace abuse/assault that is short of a physical assault/rape will say that they don't want anyone to get in trouble, they just want the behavior to stop. However, once investigations begin (which is the proper way to handle these situations - not by telling the perp to simply stop it), victims moods often change (I would argue this is a good thing) to a stance of wanting appropriate punishments handed down.

I have been involved in cases where a victim will say she doesn't want the perp punished, just for the behavior to stop - then an investigation comes back finding no credible evidence of the assault, and suddenly the victim changes heart. This is fairly understandable, as now you have a formal process that is effectively telling a victim they are wrong (which isn't necessarily the case, it is only saying that there is not credible evident of the assault beyond that person's word - which makes punishment difficult because now you are possibly facing unlawful termination and defamation issues).

I think it is entirely possible that is what happened here, though we're highly unlikely to fully know the details. We will likely eventually see a complaint filed that alleges the Spurs of being the worst people on the planet, responsible for global warming, Trump's election, cancer, the final season of GoT, etc. This is what plaintiff's attorney's do. We must also not jump to the conclusion that the Spurs are actually guilty of these things. I'd be willing to wager that the truth lies somewhere along the lines of the scenario I laid out above.

So, again - here is my guess of what "really" happened. This would also happen to be the absolutely best case scenario for the Spurs. This is "playing it by the book". It will still look bad for the Spurs.

1. Therapist is assaulted and she reports it.
2. Spurs hire a third party to conduct an independent investigation.
3. Investigation comes back inconclusive or unable to credibly substantiate the allegations.
4. Because of this, the therapist quits. The Spurs probably give Primo some kind of minor disciplinary action or warning.
5. More allegations eventually surface (maybe this Minnesota hotel thing). Spurs investigate and substantiate or decide where there is smoke there must be fire and terminate Primo.
6. Therapist sees this (and maybe talks to friends still at SS&E who tell her what happened) and decides it's time to lawyer up.

Primo that dumb to it a second time after he got easy with #1 (exposure to therapist)?

[scott]

Primo that dumb to it a second time after he got easy with #1 (exposure to therapist)?

I mean, you gotta be pretty dumb to start with to expose your self to someone, period.

[pookenstein]

iId5WDsYxZ4
Somebody should edit a Primo segment into this.

[biba]

Also, speaking from first hand experience, a lot of victims of workplace abuse/assault that is short of a physical assault/rape will say that they don't want anyone to get in trouble, they just want the behavior to stop. However, once investigations begin (which is the proper way to handle these situations - not by telling the perp to simply stop it), victims moods often change (I would argue this is a good thing) to a stance of wanting appropriate punishments handed down.

I have been involved in cases where a victim will say she doesn't want the perp punished, just for the behavior to stop - then an investigation comes back finding no credible evidence of the assault, and suddenly the victim changes heart. This is fairly understandable, as now you have a formal process that is effectively telling a victim they are wrong (which isn't necessarily the case, it is only saying that there is not credible evident of the assault beyond that person's word - which makes punishment difficult because now you are possibly facing unlawful termination and defamation issues).

I think it is entirely possible that is what happened here, though we're highly unlikely to fully know the details. We will likely eventually see a complaint filed that alleges the Spurs of being the worst people on the planet, responsible for global warming, Trump's election, cancer, the final season of GoT, etc. This is what plaintiff's attorney's do. We must also not jump to the conclusion that the Spurs are actually guilty of these things. I'd be willing to wager that the truth lies somewhere along the lines of the scenario I laid out above.

So, again - here is my guess of what "really" happened. This would also happen to be the absolutely best case scenario for the Spurs. This is "playing it by the book". It will still look bad for the Spurs.

1. Therapist is assaulted and she reports it.
2. Spurs hire a third party to conduct an independent investigation.
3. Investigation comes back inconclusive or unable to credibly substantiate the allegations.
4. Because of this, the therapist quits. The Spurs probably give Primo some kind of minor disciplinary action or warning.
5. More allegations eventually surface (maybe this Minnesota hotel thing). Spurs investigate and substantiate or decide where there is smoke there must be fire and terminate Primo.
6. Therapist sees this (and maybe talks to friends still at SS&E who tell her what happened) and decides it's time to lawyer up.

That could explain this (posted the 29th October) :

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FgPXJN4UYAA-N5A?format=jpg&name=small

[RobinsontoDuncan]

Based on the media advisory, a few things are clear to me. 1) this lawsuit has been percolating for a while and Buzbee and his client already tried negotiating with the Spurs (the primary defendant due to financial reasons) and the Spurs were either a) not taking it seriously by providing low ball settlement offers or b) non-responsive. I see almost no universe by which the Spurs has no advanced knowledge of what happened based on how things are proceeding.

2) The purpose of this press call is to drub up enough media controversy to make the settlement much bigger, and the Spurs are being stupid for not just making a generous enough offer now to stop the bleeding. In 99% of cases like this the plaintiff would prefer not to go to court. If I had to guess, based on nothing other than what’s presented, the biggest question is how far up the food chain this goes and how many executives get dragged in to it. I think RC Buford is probably fine because he was the author of the quote in the press statement. Brian Wright is probably caught up in this, but I sadly think Pop is as well, depending on how the plaintiff’s complaints were filed internally. I would be shocked if she didn’t have good documentation on dates and times to demonstrate workplace discrimination here.

Sometimes these things just get as far as the organization’s general counsel, but I would be shocked if that was the case here given it was a contractor/consultant.

[Maddog]

Tom Petrini realTomPetrini
(https://twitter.com/RealTomPetrini)6m (https://twitter.com/RealTomPetrini/status/1587224970282893312)
The law firm representing the former Spurs consulting psychologist says they will address "the veracity of recent public statements made by both the Spurs organization and Primo, interactions with individuals within the San Antonio Spurs organization."

Odd phrasing as both Spurs and Primo have essentially said nothing publicly.

That said, this is not good. There's a long history of situations like these not being handled properly by organizations- even when they thought they where handling it properly.

[KingKev]

More like the Sin City Spurs. Gearing up for the big Vegas move. They’re going to pack up in the middle of the night like when the Raiders moved to LA.



*blue font*

and bring back Primo to be the face of the franchise

[offset formation]

There's no way the top brass is dumb enough to know about this prior to picking up his option and continue to talk about him being the future of the franchise...

But if they were, heads will roll :lmao

That's what I've been saying.

Edit: spelling

[MVPCues]

Primo that dumb to it a second time after he got easy with #1 (exposure to therapist)?

It is not an intelligence issue. It is an impulsive behavior problem he can't resist.

[ElNono]

Solid move to do the presser in Houston, so the dick-limped San Antonio media can’t try to bury this.

[offset formation]

Also, speaking from first hand experience, a lot of victims of workplace abuse/assault that is short of a physical assault/rape will say that they don't want anyone to get in trouble, they just want the behavior to stop. However, once investigations begin (which is the proper way to handle these situations - not by telling the perp to simply stop it), victims moods often change (I would argue this is a good thing) to a stance of wanting appropriate punishments handed down.

I have been involved in cases where a victim will say she doesn't want the perp punished, just for the behavior to stop - then an investigation comes back finding no credible evidence of the assault, and suddenly the victim changes heart. This is fairly understandable, as now you have a formal process that is effectively telling a victim they are wrong (which isn't necessarily the case, it is only saying that there is not credible evident of the assault beyond that person's word - which makes punishment difficult because now you are possibly facing unlawful termination and defamation issues).

I think it is entirely possible that is what happened here, though we're highly unlikely to fully know the details. We will likely eventually see a complaint filed that alleges the Spurs of being the worst people on the planet, responsible for global warming, Trump's election, cancer, the final season of GoT, etc. This is what plaintiff's attorney's do. We must also not jump to the conclusion that the Spurs are actually guilty of these things. I'd be willing to wager that the truth lies somewhere along the lines of the scenario I laid out above.

So, again - here is my guess of what "really" happened. This would also happen to be the absolutely best case scenario for the Spurs. This is "playing it by the book". It will still look bad for the Spurs.

1. Therapist is assaulted and she reports it.
2. Spurs hire a third party to conduct an independent investigation.
3. Investigation comes back inconclusive or unable to credibly substantiate the allegations.
4. Because of this, the therapist quits. The Spurs probably give Primo some kind of minor disciplinary action or warning.
5. More allegations eventually surface (maybe this Minnesota hotel thing). Spurs investigate and substantiate or decide where there is smoke there must be fire and terminate Primo.
6. Therapist sees this (and maybe talks to friends still at SS&E who tell her what happened) and decides it's time to lawyer up.

All great points. But the wild card of picking up his option a mere two weeks ago will likely come into play in any legal action. And it's a potentially damning affirmation of any past behavior that they may have known about. Specifically, can you imagine if they knew in 2020 prior to drafting him that he'd allegedly been kicked out of his prep school, yet proceeded to draft him without due diligence.

Can you imagine if there are other "hotel incidents?"

Can you imagine if they've received even one other complaint ever, that he had done something like it?

And the thing is, the plaintiff in this case would know and that would undoubtedly come out in discovery because also undoubtedly it would have been something the organization knew about too, not just her from client privileged communications with Josh.

Again, I am hopeful the Spurs don't have any jeopardy here, but the more drip drip that is released starts to strain credulity that they didn't.

Finally, don't take it from me. PATFO is undoubtedly in full legal protection mode because they see the seriousness of what could be coming.

Given Pop's good will in the women's right arena, it won't look good if it becomes clear he cosigned keeping Primo on his team for another year that he potentially knew was whipping out his junk on the semi-regular.

[offset formation]

One piece of good news is that with post #1624 (this one), Primo's draft day thread from 2 years ago has now been usurped by this one of him being a sexual predator in just three days. Never should have been drafted...

Life turns on a dime.

[JADG79]

Totally agree you with you

The Spurs messed up bringing a young woman tempting the new "Negro de Whatsapp" google it, is a meme in latin america.


Note to file: Don’t hire any more female consultants to work with horny young men.

[couchman]

So much speculation in here with so few facts to go on. Remember just to days ago half the board was thinking “suicide attempt.” Just let it play out a bit maybe?

[MannyIsGod]

So much speculation in here with so few facts to go on. Remember just to days ago half the board was thinking “suicide attempt.” Just let it play out a bit maybe?

It has a played out a little bit and we now know Primo's dick was out in peoples faces. Dont know what you expect from people but that shit is simply unacceptable.

[The Truth #6]

In retrospect, prophetic Ted Talk video by Hillary Cauthen.

“The Toxicity of Sports Culture on Athletes’ Mental Health”.

https://youtu.be/UzTP3f_6coA

[timvp]

"At the conference, Tony Buzbee will discuss allegations made by Dr. Cauthen and others against NBA player Josh Primo, the events that precipitated the release of Primo, the veracity of recent public statements made by both the Spurs organization and Primo, interactions with individuals within the San Antonio Spurs organization, and the expected path forward. Dr. Cauthen will be present to make a public statement and answer pertinent questions."

This sounds like Buzbee wanted $20 million and the Spurs countered with $2 million.

[couchman]

It has a played out a little bit and we now know Primo's dick was out in peoples faces. Dont know what you expect from people but that shit is simply unacceptable.

Agree that it is unacceptable.
I'm referring to the several pages of posts speculating about what the Spurs knew and when they knew it and drawing up elaborate scenarios about it
We'll know the allegations from Buzbee soon enough

[Ariel]

Primo's actions are inexcusable. But forgive me if I'm skeptic of someone who makes a living treating maladjusted individuals being badly traumatized (barring physical assault) by witnessing Primo's weenie.

[K...]

I peg this as $3 to $5 at most. The league is going to step in unless there is someone they can hang their culpability on. I dont see any successful avenue to get over $10 unless there are really bad emails

[MannyIsGod]

I know most people know Buzzbee from his Watson shit, but I know him as a regent for TAMU. Dude is a piece of shit. I hate that he's been a go to for these cases, because nothing about this dude is anything short of slimy.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Based on the media advisory, a few things are clear to me. 1) this lawsuit has been percolating for a while and Buzbee and his client already tried negotiating with the Spurs (the primary defendant due to financial reasons) and the Spurs were either a) not taking it seriously by providing low ball settlement offers or b) non-responsive. I see almost no universe by which the Spurs has no advanced knowledge of what happened based on how things are proceeding.

2) The purpose of this press call is to drub up enough media controversy to make the settlement much bigger, and the Spurs are being stupid for not just making a generous enough offer now to stop the bleeding. In 99% of cases like this the plaintiff would prefer not to go to court. If I had to guess, based on nothing other than what’s presented, the biggest question is how far up the food chain this goes and how many executives get dragged in to it. I think RC Buford is probably fine because he was the author of the quote in the press statement. Brian Wright is probably caught up in this, but I sadly think Pop is as well, depending on how the plaintiff’s complaints were filed internally. I would be shocked if she didn’t have good documentation on dates and times to demonstrate workplace discrimination here.

Sometimes these things just get as far as the organization’s general counsel, but I would be shocked if that was the case here given it was a contractor/consultant.


There's zero chance Pop didn't know about this. None. He rules the organization with an iron fist.

[Chinook]

"At the conference, Tony Buzbee will discuss allegations made by Dr. Cauthen and others against NBA player Josh Primo, the events that precipitated the release of Primo, the veracity of recent public statements made by both the Spurs organization and Primo, interactions with individuals within the San Antonio Spurs organization, and the expected path forward. Dr. Cauthen will be present to make a public statement and answer pertinent questions."

This sounds like Buzbee wanted $20 million and the Spurs countered with $2 million.

I think it's possible this press conference works out for the Spurs. Imagine if the Spurs had waived Primo, the media found out about the flashing and that the Spurs paid off a former employee prior to getting rid of Primo. That would make the Spurs seem guilty of trying to cover up what Primo did. If this press conference gives a more nuanced where the organization and the accuser had both had input into the process and parted ways with mutual respect, and THEN the Spurs settle, it makes it seem more like the Spurs are being honest but are just trying to avoid a long legal battle. It might also mitigate any additional lawsuits that Primo may face.

Of course, it might come out that the Spurs did know about Primo's accusations before drafting him or in the very least that the psychologist learned of that and informed them. That could be part of the HIPAA concerns referenced. Then when she was on the receiving end of Primo's flash cannon, she informed the Spurs, told them he was going to be a reoffender and might even escalate without intervention, and they basically tried to find a way to "fix" the issue without bringing bad press on their player. That could be because of the reputation it to folks like Wright and which scouts was responsible for grading and checking out Primo. Rather than mutual respect, the psychologist and organization would've parted ways with the looming legal action hanging over them. In that scenario, they definitely should've ponied up the money, and there's a good chance they'll be tied into additional suits levied against Primo, since they would've known what he did, gotten professional advice on how to handle it, ignored that advice and put someone else serving their team at risk.

[Maddog]

I know most people know Buzzbee from his Watson shit, but I know him as a regent for TAMU. Dude is a piece of shit. I hate that he's been a go to for these cases, because nothing about this dude is anything short of slimy.

He could have offered RC some advice on how to handle a drunk driving conviction

Really wish someone else was representing these women

[Spursfanfromafar]

"The veracity of public statements by the Spurs organization"...

The only public statements made by the Spurs on Primo were 1) He had a glute injury, 2) He was waived and this was best for him and the organization in the long run and 3) They had nothing more to add than what they said in the statement on his being waived.

So if the question is about "veracity" - Only 1) should be under question (and that is also easily proven by his fall in his previous game)..

2) and 3) have nothing objectionable that their "veracity" will be questioned.

Am I missing anything here?

[timvp]

There's zero chance Pop didn't know about this. None. He rules the organization with an iron fist.

Eh. Pop of 20 years ago, yeah. Modern day Pop does almost no front office work. He'll go to dinner with a couple draft prospects each year but that's about it these days.

He might have been told of Primo's issues but far from certain, IMO.

[The Truth #6]

I think it's possible this press conference works out for the Spurs. Imagine if the Spurs had waived Primo, the media found out about the flashing and that the Spurs paid off a former employee prior to getting rid of Primo. That would make the Spurs seem guilty of trying to cover up what Primo did. If this press conference gives a more nuanced where the organization and the accuser had both had input into the process and parted ways with mutual respect, and THEN the Spurs settle, it makes it seem more like the Spurs are being honest but are just trying to avoid a long legal battle. It might also mitigate any additional lawsuits that Primo may face.

Of course, it might come out that the Spurs did know about Primo's accusations before drafting him or in the very least that the psychologist learned of that and informed them. That could be part of the HIPAA concerns referenced. Then when she was on the receiving end of Primo's flash cannon, she informed the Spurs, told them he was going to be a reoffender and might even escalate without intervention, and they basically tried to find a way to "fix" the issue without bringing bad press on their player. That could be because of the reputation it to folks like Wright and which scouts was responsible for grading and checking out Primo. Rather than mutual respect, the psychologist and organization would've parted ways with the looming legal action hanging over them. In that scenario, they definitely should've ponied up the money, and there's a good chance they'll be tied into additional suits levied against Primo, since they would've known what he did, gotten professional advice on how to handle it, ignored that advice and put someone else serving their team at risk.

I don’t see the press conference as any sort of fact finding mission. Seems like pure leverage to force the Spurs into settling to avoid bad PR. But it depends if the Spurs also play to the media to tell their side. But they never do that so I could see a settlement before Thursday.

[timvp]

I think it's possible this press conference works out for the Spurs.

That's not how Buzbee operates. And Buzbee's press release was a threat. A somewhat vieled threat -- but a threat nonetheless.

There's a number that would make this all go away. So far, the Spurs obviously aren't ready to pay it.

[Chinook]

I know most people know Buzzbee from his Watson shit, but I know him as a regent for TAMU. Dude is a piece of shit. I hate that he's been a go to for these cases, because nothing about this dude is anything short of slimy.

Yeah, that's what I mean. I don't know if he has any Avenatti slime about him, but I would've felt more comfortable with a lawyer who wasn't involved in that Watson circus. It feels less like it's going to be about truth and accountability and more about leverage and public opinion. There are a lot cultural, philosophical and legal discussion points that we (as in the folks who aren't part of this suit) are going to take from this. It touches on a lot of important questions and debates (women's issues, toxic masculinity, work-place harassment, mental-healthcare, sexual expression, sexual abuse). But that's all going to get shat on by the drama of it. And I'm not even sure if that lawyer can be said to get results. I don't know that the Watson case was a win for them. Most of the suits got dropped, the team was able to slip out from underneath their obligation relatively easily. The Spurs are certainly a weaker target than the Texans, but I also don't necessarily think they're guaranteed to have that strong of a legal case. Even these teasers we're getting don't really seem to hint at them accusing the Spurs of much. Maybe they're holding back still hoping for a settlement? Maybe. As I said, a press conference that comes out not really blaming the Spurs for much before the two sides settle out of court is the best-case scenario for the team right now. In terms of leverage, preserving that option makes sense for both sides.

[timvp]

"The veracity of public statements by the Spurs organization"...

The only public statements made by the Spurs on Primo were 1) He had a glute injury, 2) He was waived and this was best for him and the organization in the long run and 3) They had nothing more to add than what they said in the statement on his being waived.

So if the question is about "veracity" - Only 1) should be under question (and that is also easily proven by his fall in his previous game)..

2) and 3) have nothing objectionable that their "veracity" will be questioned.

Am I missing anything here?

"The veracity of public statements by the Spurs organization" = Buzbee saying he's going to air alllllllllll the dirt laundry. Who knows what he has but he could be going all the way back to the Spurs praising Primo when they picked him.

[Chinook]

That's not how Buzbee operates. And Buzbee's press release was a threat. A somewhat vieled threat -- but a threat nonetheless.

There's a number that would make this all go away. So far, the Spurs obviously aren't ready to pay it.

I get that it's a threat. What I'm saying is that it's beneficial for the Spurs if the press conference doesn't shed blame on them -- more beneficial than not having a press conference because a settlement is reached. So it's possible that the press conference more covers what Primo did, avoids getting too much into what the Spurs did, and then the sides settle. That way, the Spurs look like they're not hiding anything but also don't look like they paid them to say good things about the Spurs. If the Spurs just cave and give them the money, it's basically them admitting that the conference would reveal damaging information about them -- which is might not. Sure, it can be worth it to quash this even if they would clearly win in court, but public opinion tends not to go there. Unless the Spurs are guilty as sin, they have to let the press conference happen at this point.

[Chinook]

I don’t see the press conference as any sort of fact finding mission. Seems like pure leverage to force the Spurs into settling to avoid bad PR. But it depends if the Spurs also play to the media to tell their side. But they never do that so I could see a settlement before Thursday.

With a normal accuser, I'd agree. But I do feel like this is such a different situation than if we were talking about a trainer that this story is going to be more complicated. Maybe it's a pure money grab, but for someone who studies these types of things to the point where she speaks about it, it's very possible that her goal is to take a few million then never have a career again. It feels more in her long-term interest to incorporate this experience into her future work, which would be harder to do if she's under a settlement agreement. Though it's not clear how the suit against Primo, which would likely continue even if the Spurs settle will work if she can't talk about a lot of the Spurs parts.

[The Truth #6]

With a normal accuser, I'd agree. But I do feel like this is such a different situation than if we were talking about a trainer that this story is going to be more complicated. Maybe it's a pure money grab, but for someone who studies these types of things to the point where she speaks about it, it's very possible that her goal is to take a few million then never have a career again. It feels more in her long-term interest to incorporate this experience into her future work, which would be harder to do if she's under a settlement agreement. Though it's not clear how the suit against Primo, which would likely continue even if the Spurs settle will work if she can't talk about a lot of the Spurs parts.

Her Ted Talk presents a sincere person. But hiring this lawyer in particular suggests a different path. The press conference seems like a money grab, as in why have it, why make it so many days in advance, and if the conference isn’t canceled due to a settlement, then I will be curious to see how she handles the situation.

If they make it to the press conference, it’s also possible the Spurs did nothing wrong and have already weathered the storm and will have their day in court.

So many possibilities.

[Chinook]

Her Ted Talk presents a sincere person. But hiring this lawyer in particular suggests a different path. The press conference seems like a money grab, as in why have it, why make it so many days in advance, and if the conference isn’t canceled due to a settlement, then I will be curious to see how she handles the situation.

If they make it to the press conference, it’s also possible the Spurs did nothing wrong and have already weathered the storm and will have their day in court.

So many possibilities.

Exactly. If the Spurs know they're on the hook for some shady shit, then it's in their best interest to not let the press conference go out. But at this point, them quashing it would mean a legit PR hit -- one that to my knowledge they aren't feeling right now. I think most fans of other teams assume the Spurs probably handled the situation correct. But once they start settling under threat of a press conference, it becomes real smoked centered on them. So if the Spurs could influence things toward a specific scenario, it would be one where the press conference happens and they say they are blaming Primo and that they don't hold the Spurs at fault for what happened. That basically closes the issue for the team before the assumption of innocence the wider public has given the Spurs is jeopardized. It's also possible the two sides are antagonistic but that the Spurs honestly confident they didn't do anything wrong. Then we aren't likely going to see credible accusations come across. We'll see them try to drag the Spurs into this but not really have anything of substance, in which case the public opinion would probably not shift that much. Remember we still live in a world where folks will look for an excuse to discredit a woman on issues like this. Even though she is obviously credible, as you mentioned, hiring this lawyer wasn't a good look in that regard.

If the Spurs let this press conference go forward, and they level credible accusations directly at the Spurs, it's a good sign they've lost the plot. That or the sum Buzbee was asking for is absurd.

[vy65]

I get that it's a threat. What I'm saying is that it's beneficial for the Spurs if the press conference doesn't shed blame on them -- more beneficial than not having a press conference because a settlement is reached. So it's possible that the press conference more covers what Primo did, avoids getting too much into what the Spurs did, and then the sides settle. That way, the Spurs look like they're not hiding anything but also don't look like they paid them to say good things about the Spurs. If the Spurs just cave and give them the money, it's basically them admitting that the conference would reveal damaging information about them -- which is might not. Sure, it can be worth it to quash this even if they would clearly win in court, but public opinion tends not to go there. Unless the Spurs are guilty as sin, they have to let the press conference happen at this point.

You don't understand how plaintiffs lawyers think. There are two defendants, so two potential pots of money: 1) Primo, 2) the Spurs. Primo is ostensibly being paid around 4MM this year and 4MM next as part of his extension. So let's say its about 4.5MM after taxes. He can likely shelter a good chunk of that remaining amount, so let's say he'll have about 1.75MM in free funds that could be used to satisfy a judgment. 40% of that is approximately $700,000. The Spurs likely have insurance, have considerably more than $8MM in assets and can't shelter those funds the same way an individual can.

So tell me, why on earth would a high profile plaintiffs attorney actively sever their ability to go after a very deep pocket in favor of a fee that, best case, would contain absolutely no premium? Especially in a high exposure case.

[vy65]

Also, what incentive do the Spurs have in settling after the press conference? That's a leverage point to induce a defendant to settle beforehand, so all the dirty laundry doesn't get aired.

[scott]

The settlement horse has left the barn, for now. You don’t go announce a press conference to force a settlement, because at that point damage has already been done and your leverage is partially negated. Your best positions to get the best settlements are 1) before it goes public 2) when it is clear your going to get hammered in a trial.

Either the Spurs feel confident in their position, or Buzbee’s demands are astronomical, or the spurs are idiots caught up in their own hubris

[scott]

And yes, Tony Buzbee is an Avanetti-level slimeball. Check out his run for office a few years ago

[timvp]

With a normal accuser, I'd agree. But I do feel like this is such a different situation than if we were talking about a trainer that this story is going to be more complicated. Maybe it's a pure money grab, but for someone who studies these types of things to the point where she speaks about it, it's very possible that her goal is to take a few million then never have a career again. It feels more in her long-term interest to incorporate this experience into her future work, which would be harder to do if she's under a settlement agreement. Though it's not clear how the suit against Primo, which would likely continue even if the Spurs settle will work if she can't talk about a lot of the Spurs parts.

I see what you're saying and I hope that's how it turns out.

Buuuuuuut ... that's not how Buzbee operates. He has levied a threat and will go scorched earth if the Spurs don't pay up. The only way he doesn't is if he doesn't have anything -- but that press release makes it sound like he has at least has a few things he's holding over the franchise's head.

A big problem for the Spurs is that Primo is a small fish in this situation. Buzbee won't be able to get much money from him. This isn't a Watson situation where he's looking at $200-$300 million in career earnings forthcoming. The most likely scenario is Primo either never plays in the NBA again or gets one more shot but doesn't do enough to get his big payday. He has the ~$8 million coming to him but that will be eaten up by taxes, debt and now possibly lawyers.

Buzbee took aim at the Spurs with that press release and barely mentioned Primo. That's not by accident. If the Spurs settle, my guess is Buzbee wouldn't even sue Primo because there's not enough money there to be worth the effort.

[scott]

You don't understand how plaintiffs lawyers think. There are two defendants, so two potential pots of money: 1) Primo, 2) the Spurs. Primo is ostensibly being paid around 4MM this year and 4MM next as part of his extension. So let's say its about 4.5MM after taxes. He can likely shelter a good chunk of that remaining amount, so let's say he'll have about 1.75MM in free funds that could be used to satisfy a judgment. 40% of that is approximately $700,000. The Spurs likely have insurance, have considerably more than $8MM in assets and can't shelter those funds the same way an individual can.

So tell me, why on earth would a high profile plaintiffs attorney actively sever their ability to go after a very deep pocket in favor of a fee that, best case, would contain absolutely no premium? Especially in a high exposure case.

While generally correct I think you are giving Buzbee too much credit. The spotlight is award enough for him. He’d definitely be willing to go after the Spurs (or any other franchise) with a case that only has a 20% chance of success. He doesn’t need to stick with home runs, he’s out there taking as many swings at the fences as he can and soaking in the publicity along the way

[timvp]

You don't understand how plaintiffs lawyers think. There are two defendants, so two potential pots of money: 1) Primo, 2) the Spurs. Primo is ostensibly being paid around 4MM this year and 4MM next as part of his extension. So let's say its about 4.5MM after taxes. He can likely shelter a good chunk of that remaining amount, so let's say he'll have about 1.75MM in free funds that could be used to satisfy a judgment. 40% of that is approximately $700,000. The Spurs likely have insurance, have considerably more than $8MM in assets and can't shelter those funds the same way an individual can.

So tell me, why on earth would a high profile plaintiffs attorney actively sever their ability to go after a very deep pocket in favor of a fee that, best case, would contain absolutely no premium? Especially in a high exposure case.


Also, what incentive do the Spurs have in settling after the press conference? That's a leverage point to induce a defendant to settle beforehand, so all the dirty laundry doesn't get aired.

Good breakdown. Agreed on all points. Primo is unlikely to be a target by Buzbee. If Primo gets a good lawyer (he doesn't have one now because his release to ESPN was something so stupid that he obviously didn't consult a lawyer before sending it to Woj), there's a pretty decent chance he walks away from this with a six figure settlement.

[K...]

The settlement horse has left the barn, for now. You don’t go announce a press conference to force a settlement, because at that point damage has already been done and your leverage is partially negated. Your best positions to get the best settlements are 1) before it goes public 2) when it is clear your going to get hammered in a trial.

Either the Spurs feel confident in their position, or Buzbee’s demands are astronomical, or the spurs are idiots caught up in their own hubris

No no no. You can settle before or after discovery. We are not yet before discovery. No suit filed. We dont know what damages they're speaking. Discovery is $ so a settlement before hand makes sense.

[scott]

No no no. You can settle before or after discovery. We are not yet before discovery. No suit filed. We dont know what damages they're speaking. Discovery is $ so a settlement before hand makes sense.

you CAN settle at anytime, but that isn’t the point. The maximum pre-discovery leverage is lost once you go public is the point. The Spurs aren’t going to be compelled to settle after a press conference is announced but before it happens. That ain’t the way it works

[MannyIsGod]

It is hard to reconcile the victim and the lawyer in this case, honestly, but also I don't want to cast any aspersions on a victim so IDK.

[Spursfanfromafar]

"The veracity of public statements by the Spurs organization" = Buzbee saying he's going to air alllllllllll the dirt laundry. Who knows what he has but he could be going all the way back to the Spurs praising Primo when they picked him.

Interesting. But what is justiciable is only what an organization does after an allegation has been made. I am not sure if any public statement was made about Primo that questioned the alleged victim or belittled her. So essentially Buzbee is aiming for reputational loss, by airing dirty laundry in public when there isn't any dirty laundry on the Spurs' public statements' side.

[MannyIsGod]

No no no. You can settle before or after discovery. We are not yet before discovery. No suit filed. We dont know what damages they're speaking. Discovery is $ so a settlement before hand makes sense.

Sure you can always settle, but part of settling is to keep the dirt from ever seeing the light of day. If he comes out and shits all over the Spurs that damage is done and there's a lot less to motivate a settlement if you've already taken that L.

[rjv]

I know most people know Buzzbee from his Watson shit, but I know him as a regent for TAMU. Dude is a piece of shit. I hate that he's been a go to for these cases, because nothing about this dude is anything short of slimy.


as an old ag, i couldn't agree more: most TAMU regents are total a-holes.

[MannyIsGod]

FWIW its going to have to be really bad for the Spurs to look awful in this. If they did their due diligence at each step of the way, and that doesn't mean immediately waving Primo the moment they had an accusation, then they will probably be "fine" in the court of public opinion. That doesn't mean the Spurs haven't extremely fucked up here (although they may not have). I just think that they'll have had to done a shit ton of covering for Primo in order to come across badly and I simply find that really unlikely.

[Chinook]

You don't understand how plaintiffs lawyers think. There are two defendants, so two potential pots of money: 1) Primo, 2) the Spurs. Primo is ostensibly being paid around 4MM this year and 4MM next as part of his extension. So let's say its about 4.5MM after taxes. He can likely shelter a good chunk of that remaining amount, so let's say he'll have about 1.75MM in free funds that could be used to satisfy a judgment. 40% of that is approximately $700,000. The Spurs likely have insurance, have considerably more than $8MM in assets and can't shelter those funds the same way an individual can.

So tell me, why on earth would a high profile plaintiffs attorney actively sever their ability to go after a very deep pocket in favor of a fee that, best case, would contain absolutely no premium? Especially in a high exposure case.


Also, what incentive do the Spurs have in settling after the press conference? That's a leverage point to induce a defendant to settle beforehand, so all the dirty laundry doesn't get aired.

I feel like you're saying contradictory things and then acting confused by the contradictions you made up. If the Spurs are the big fish, it behooves Buzbee to get as much as he can out of them. The Spurs want to save as much PR as possible. That means the longer this goes on, the less happy both are. The most lucrative thing for both sides is to look for a low-key exit strategy that pays really well. For the Spurs, if they settle now, they lose a ton of PR they haven't lost yet. Folks would assume they're guilty, and they aren't doing that now. So the Spurs want to be exonerated. The only person who can do that is the psychologist. So you can have a settlement based on a press conference that doesn't focus on the Spurs. That preserves the leverage Buzbee has, and it gives the Spurs the best exit strategy.

The press conference isn't being teased as actual accusations against the Spurs. It's more of an examination of the part they played in it. I wouldn't be surprised if it were phrased that way deliberately to give the Spurs this sort of out. The goal is to make the Spurs think it's worth it to settle for as long as possible. Assuming the Spurs don't have a rotten core they're hiding, the longer this goes on, the lower the settlement amount will get. Buzbee doesn't want that, so actually running in and blasting the Spurs -- especially if those blasts aren't particularly well supported -- is a bad thing. But going in and sort of exonerating the Spurs? That is something the organization might be willing to pay for.

As far as the timing, that agreement would obviously be reached before the press conference. But you wouldn't announce that until after, because then a) the press conference would likely not happen (which is something the Spurs don't want) and b) even if it did happen, it would feel tainted by the settlement. The only person who might benefit from this getting nastier is Buzbee himself, as it could help his reputation as a man who isn't afraid to get nasty to "get results", but he'd still have to get those results.

[MannyIsGod]

as an old ag, i couldn't agree more: most TAMU regents are total a-holes.

Yeah, the shit I've seen them do during my time there was incredible. Not to mention all the things they've done post 2020 due to the Sul Ross statue. Total pieces of shit.

[timvp]

The settlement horse has left the barn, for now. You don’t go announce a press conference to force a settlement, because at that point damage has already been done and your leverage is partially negated. Your best positions to get the best settlements are 1) before it goes public 2) when it is clear your going to get hammered in a trial.

Either the Spurs feel confident in their position, or Buzbee’s demands are astronomical, or the spurs are idiots caught up in their own hubris

Typically I'd agree but Buzbee's press release was vague enough that it doesn't paint the Spurs in a bad light. Plus, the general public would assume the Spurs handled it correctly ... so if the Spurs successfully settle now, it will be forgetten and no one would even remember the threat of the tell-all press conference.

Buzbee giving the Spurs 72 hours with vieled threats looks like a classic shakedown by a plantiff's attorney. I'm sure Buzbee is aiming for exposure too but if this was only for expsoure and not $$$, he could have broken the story with a press conference when the world was wondering WTF happened with Primo instead of planting the ticking time bomb.

[MannyIsGod]

Typically I'd agree but Buzbee's press release was vague enough that it doesn't paint the Spurs in a bad light. Plus, the general public would assume the Spurs handled it correctly ... so if the Spurs successfully settle now, it will be forgetten and no one would even remember the threat of the tell-all press conference.

Buzbee giving the Spurs 72 hours with vieled threats looks like a classic shakedown by a plantiff's attorney. I'm sure Buzbee is aiming for exposure too but if this was only for expsoure and not $$$, he could have broken the story with a press conference when the world was wondering WTF happened with Primo instead of planting the ticking time bomb.

Its also possible the Spurs short circuited his plan by immediately waving Primo. We've never heard of a team waving a player like that before news broke. And even though Primo isn't a Watson level player, he's not nothing.

[Extra Stout]

as an old ag, i couldn't agree more: most TAMU regents are total a-holes.
I believe the Aggie Honor Code was meant to be aspirational, but a lot of rich Aggies treat it like an entitlement: nobody is allowed to call them out on their dishonest behavior, because as Aggies they are incapable of lying, cheating, stealing.

[K...]

Sure you can always settle, but part of settling is to keep the dirt from ever seeing the light of day. If he comes out and shits all over the Spurs that damage is done and there's a lot less to motivate a settlement if you've already taken that L.

Arguably theres a big gulf between the spurs take the L, and on the other end have to pay over $5million and lose draft picks. Busbee has to know the league will stand behind a shakedown attempt. It all depends on what we dont know happened behind the scenes. Im betting its a big wife. They slime the spurs but no real evidence of culpability.

[The Truth #6]

On a tangent, the spurs are definitely in new territory, one they typically try to avoid, which is dealing with the press, which is why I think they will settle. They are in a tough spot: there’s no way they can defend Primo, but they don’t want to come across as attacking the victim either. I do think the press conference is the real trial so to speak, and I don’t see much benefit for the spurs trying to plead their case to the public because it looks awkward, and again, it’s something they never do.

[MannyIsGod]

Arguably theres a big gulf between the spurs take the L, and on the other end have to pay over $5million and lose draft picks. Busbee has to know the league will stand behind a shakedown attempt. It all depends on what we dont know happened behind the scenes. Im betting its a big wife. They slime the spurs but no real evidence of culpability.

Honestly I think that's probably a good bet. Its hard for me not to give the Spurs the benefit of the doubt, but also I am worried that we're wrong to do that. But still, I have a hard time believing they fucked up hugely. But like ES said in this thread, it would be peak white liberal to spew all the woke shit then turn around and do the opposite behind the scenes.

[The Truth #6]

Also, if the Spurs don’t settle, I’m sure the lawyer will continue to get himself on camera with the hope of Skip or Stephen A rambling about this. The press conference isn’t necessarily the end but the beginning?

[scott]

One thing no one should ever lose sight of: Tony Buzbee is a legit media whore desperate for attention. Like Thomas J Henry/Donald Trump/Michael Avenatti level attention whore. He ran for Mayor of Houston in a very Trump-like manner, drawing many comparisons. He refused to concede the race and a few weeks later appeared with a food-themed reality show, then a little while later suddenly became the face of the Watson accusations. It’s not because of a rich history of defending women, it’s because he Avenatti’d his way in and now that is the mark he is trying to make for himself. My guess is that another run for office is coming.

[Chinook]

I see what you're saying and I hope that's how it turns out.

Buuuuuuut ... that's not how Buzbee operates. He has levied a threat and will go scorched earth if the Spurs don't pay up. The only way he doesn't is if he doesn't have anything -- but that press release makes it sound like he has at least has a few things he's holding over the franchise's head.

A big problem for the Spurs is that Primo is a small fish in this situation. Buzbee won't be able to get much money from him. This isn't a Watson situation where he's looking at $200-$300 million in career earnings forthcoming. The most likely scenario is Primo either never plays in the NBA again or gets one more shot but doesn't do enough to get his big payday. He has the ~$8 million coming to him but that will be eaten up by taxes, debt and now possibly lawyers.

Buzbee took aim at the Spurs with that press release and barely mentioned Primo. That's not by accident. If the Spurs settle, my guess is Buzbee wouldn't even sue Primo because there's not enough money there to be worth the effort.

I didn't think the teaser made it seem like he had a ton. Maybe I didn't read it right the first time, but I don't even remember it referencing them doing or failing to actually do anything. The implication that the team knew about it is already out, so why not just say that and say more details will be in the press conference? Is it a libel situation? You're painting Buzbee as this awesome chess player, but he has to know that settling is the Spurs admitting they knew, so if he doesn't think they did, then they aren't going to settle. And if they did know, then him saying it wouldn't change anything. Having such a measured release doesn't feel like a very calculated move. Saying less might've let the Spurs think it was worth it to settle. Saying more might've put more pressure on the Spurs to not let the details go out. But unless they have a Primo moment where they decide to just admit guilt before turtling up, it doesn't feel like this was the balance point.

And again, we keep trying to reduce the role of the psychologist here. She's supposed to speak, and she would've been the first person whose advice the team sought both as a victim and a professional. Unless she's going to basically "no comment" her way through her entire part, there are going to be lines she won't be able to cross like Buzbee can, both for HIPAA reasons and for her own professional integrity. I don't know that the press conference is going to be the slam dunk for them that you fear it would be.

[ElNono]

What the Spurs have going for them is that this is San Antonio and Texas, not LA and California. This is unlikely to garner more than a couple of days of attention in the national media. Probably the one case where being on a shitty market pays off.

[The Truth #6]

Buzbee wins foremost. Everyone else loses to varying degrees, in a sense. The plaintiff looks to get paid but she may have to pursue an academic career after this. It’s weird.

[MannyIsGod]

Buzbee wins foremost. Everyone else loses to varying degrees, in a sense. The plaintiff looks to get paid but she may have to pursue an academic career after this. It’s weird.

"have to"? i don't think you understand how hard it is to pursue a career in academia.

[CGD]

"The veracity of public statements by the Spurs organization"...

The only public statements made by the Spurs on Primo were 1) He had a glute injury, 2) He was waived and this was best for him and the organization in the long run and 3) They had nothing more to add than what they said in the statement on his being waived.

So if the question is about "veracity" - Only 1) should be under question (and that is also easily proven by his fall in his previous game)..

2) and 3) have nothing objectionable that their "veracity" will be questioned.

Am I missing anything here?

Those arent the public statements he's talking about. He's talking about all the "high character" stuff the spurs said about Primo publicly, and he think he can show that they knew something about Primo's issues dating back to the draft. He'll use something like parading Primo as the face of Self as a case in point about their wanton disregard of these facts, etc., and how they acted in their own pecuniary interested regardless.

This could get bad.

Are we 100% sure Vassell didnt get caught up in this? I'm nervous we know more about Blake's knee than Devons at this point.

[Joseph Kony]

:lol what is this weird thing y'all have assuming Vassell is somehow part of Primo pulling his dick out just because he's been out the last couple games? talk about a reach

[cd98]

How will Buzbee do in a jury trial in San Antonio against the Spurs? I think his card is to hurt their reputation as a class organization with the media. That is how he gets the most money for his claims. If there is only one client, then I don't see him getting his client big bucks for exposing himself from a San Antonio jury. Especially if Primo has a sad story, like he was sexually abused as a child.

But Buzbee has established himself as the "go to" for any kind of sex scandal.

[BatManu20]

In other news.. the tank is soon to be back on boys.

1587491623549779970

[scott]

Here is a good primer on who Tony Buzbee is: https://abc13.com/tony-buzbee-attorney-who-is-texas-aggie/10432997/

Bottom line: he's a rich guy who now cares about being in the spotlight, likely as his primary motivator. We'll see how this plays out - after all, in theory he should still be primarily representing the interests of his client.

[SupremeGuy]

The settlement horse has left the barn, for now. You don’t go announce a press conference to force a settlement, because at that point damage has already been done and your leverage is partially negated. Your best positions to get the best settlements are 1) before it goes public 2) when it is clear your going to get hammered in a trial.

Either the Spurs feel confident in their position, or Buzbee’s demands are astronomical, or the spurs are idiots caught up in their own hubrisBingo.

Pop has definitely felt untouchable in recent years.

Such a shitty situation all around tbh.

[cd98]

In other news.. the tank is soon to be back on boys.

1587491623549779970

That's a bare minimum unprotected first round pick. Probably requires more given how he has started the season.

[Spursfanfromafar]

In other news.. the tank is soon to be back on boys.

1587491623549779970

The Spurs got to start with 2 FRPs and a swap and see who bites.

[MannyIsGod]

:lol what is this weird thing y'all have assuming Vassell is somehow part of Primo pulling his dick out just because he's been out the last couple games? talk about a reach

To be fair if I had posted on this site last week that Primo would be waived this week everyone would have thought I was insane.

[timvp]

Its also possible the Spurs short circuited his plan by immediately waving Primo. We've never heard of a team waving a player like that before news broke. And even though Primo isn't a Watson level player, he's not nothing.

Yeah, that's a possibility. Buzbee could have overplayed his hand thinking the Spurs would suspend Primo at worst -- but when the Spurs learned that Primo is "unwell" enough to expose himself to the one person he shouldn't have exposed himself to, they waived him with no hesitation.

[Dverde]

In other news.. the tank is soon to be back on boys.

1587491623549779970

Windhorst also said The Spurs want to keep him long term. They were willing to pay him the max they are allowed to extend his contract which was around 14.5M and Poodle’s camp thought he’d get more in free agency.

[SupremeGuy]

The Spurs got to start with 2 FRPs and a swap and see who bites.Man, that'd be great.

Realistically there's blood in the water; teams are going to lowball hard. We're gonna get Kawhi'd again tbh.

[BillMc]

In other news.. the tank is soon to be back on boys.

1587491623549779970

Big men reach their primes later than perimeter players. I think Jakob's timeline matches up with KJ and Devin's. Really should think about keeping him. He and Sochan means you've two guys with decent size who are not liablilites in switching.

[Kevin]

Jak for Wiseman. Helps the tank and Wiseman fits the timeline better.

[Leetonidas]

To be fair if I had posted on this site last week that Primo would be waived this week everyone would have thought I was insane.

What would he do though, hold Primo's trench coat open for him? :lol I am just struggling to see how someone else could be involved in ones genital flashing

[JADG79]

Udoka a pervert and a cheater probably will coach the Nets after the sexual misconduct and Boston keeps everything in private and an immature 19 years old kid Primo is receiving a public declaration from his own psychologist.

[The Truth #6]

"have to"? i don't think you understand how hard it is to pursue a career in academia.

I do, but that’s not my point. I’m saying that if she sues an NBA team no other team is ever going to hire her again, and she’s gonna have to find another institution to pay her.

[SupremeGuy]

Big men reach their primes later than perimeter players. I think Jakob's timeline matches up with KJ and Devin's. Really should think about keeping him. He and Sochan means you've two guys with decent size who are not liablilites in switching.Completely agree.

Trading him to begin the tank for a chance at Wem is a bad decision, although that entirely depends on what's offered for him in return. Now isn't the time.

[LeBowen]

Jak for Wiseman. Helps the tank and Wiseman fits the timeline better.

Wiseman doesn't look good.
Don't even need to get a big in return, it's a rebuild. Just need a good player with a lot of upside, any position.
Or two unprotected first-rounders, that should be the price.

As already said, if noone comes up with the right offer, just extend Jakob, he fits perfectly with the young guys.

[CGD]

Wiseman doesn't look good.
Don't even need to get a big in return, it's a rebuild. Just need a good player with a lot of upside, any position.
Or two unprotected first-rounders, that should be the price.

As already said, if noone comes up with the right offer, just extend Jakob, he fits perfectly with the young guys.

I agree man. I think the Sochan/Jakob pairing could be a good one in the long run is Jeremy grows his shooting. Plus with the cap spike coming, the first year of Jakob's new deal could be closer to what the new MLE will be in a few years (wild to think).

[SupremeGuy]

Udoka a pervert and a cheater probably will coach the Nets after the sexual misconduct and Boston keeps everything in private and an immature 19 years old kid Primo is receiving a public declaration from his own psychologist.Neither is acceptable, clearly.

This fucking sucks.

There haven't been any police reports filed right?

[The Truth #6]

That's a bare minimum unprotected first round pick. Probably requires more given how he has started the season.

Trade rumors to hit a peak coincidentally around the same time as the press conference. That would be a good play.

[BacktoBasics]

That's a bare minimum unprotected first round pick. Probably requires more given how he has started the season.
Dude has outplayed Gobert on multiple occasions. I’d demand a lot or keep him. He’s a great piece and it’s not like he’s on the wrong side of 30.

[Russ]

Realistically there's blood in the water; teams are going to lowball hard. We're gonna get Kawhi'd again tbh.

Get Kawhi'd again? Really?

The Spurs only have Poeltl in the first place because of that Kawhi trade.

They also got Keldon Johnson (Raptor's 2019 1st round pick) and DeMar DeRozan which they turned into a protected first-round pick and two second-round picks (plus fodder, i.e., Thaddeus Young, Al-Farouq Aminu).

Basically the Spurs two best players (now) came out of that trade.

Meanwhile, Kawhi has essentially played one good season after the trade.

I really hope the Spurs get "Kawhi'd" again if they do trade Jakob.

[SupremeGuy]

Get Kawhi'd again? Really?

The Spurs only have Poeltl in the first place because of that Kawhi trade.

They also got Keldon Johnson (Raptor's 2019 1st round pick) and DeMar DeRozan which they turned into a protected first-round pick and two second-round picks (plus fodder, i.e., Thaddeus Young, Al-Farouq Aminu).

Basically the Spurs two best players (now) came out of that trade.

Meanwhile, Kawhi has essentially played one good season after the trade.

I really hope the Spurs get "Kawhi'd" again if they do trade Jakob.You think we got fair value for Kawhi? C'mon man.

[lefty20]

You think we got fair value for Kawhi? C'mon man.

Without context, no.

But ppl keep forgetting how he and Uncle Dennis had completely tanked his value.

There were serious question marks regarding his health for the following season. He had also made it known that he was LA bound in FA no matter what. Meaning it was purely gonna be a 1 year rental of a player who came with serious health concerns.

Teams, including the Lakers, were low balling the fuck outta us.

So with full context, Yes! The Spurs actually got good value for Neph.

[TDomination]

Maybe I’m in minority but I’d hate to see Poeltl traded

[Russ]

You think we got fair value for Kawhi? C'mon man.

Jakob Poeltl, Keldon Johnson a 1st and 2 seconds ain't that bad.

After all, what value does Kawhi have now?

I live in LA and Kawhi is probably the second most unpopular NBA player here (behind only Russell Westbrook). He'd be even more unpopular if anyone gave a damn about the Clippers.

Kawhi is where he wants to be and he still doesn't play. Even assuming he wanted to stay in SA he'd be a pretty dubious asset at this point.

[RC_Drunkford]

if Utah got 4 first rounders and 1 swap for Gobert, we should at least get 2 firsts and a swap. I also wouldn't have a problem with Jakob staying if we can resign him. Although it would help the tank to trade him

[baseline bum]

Man, that'd be great.

Realistically there's blood in the water; teams are going to lowball hard. We're gonna get Kawhi'd again tbh.

I'd definitely take Keldon, Jakob, and Chicago's 2025 first over a broken down Mute Cancer today.

[MannyIsGod]

I'd definitely take Keldon, Jakob, and Chicago's 2025 first over a broken down Mute Cancer today.

People still don't understand the Spurs actually did well on that trade.

[Chinook]

I don't think two firsts is realistic, but I could see a first and a prospect plus filler. Someone on RGM mentioned Poeltl for Haynes, Lewis and a first from LAL. I've never really cared for Hayes, but I've liked Lewis for similar reasons as I like Wesley, and it's a position of need. If the pick were something like that Laker pick in 2024 or ideally the NOP/LAL pick for this year unprotected, that would be a good haul.

[baseline bum]

I don't think two firsts is realistic, but I could see a first and a prospect plus filler. Someone on RGM mentioned Poeltl for Haynes, Lewis and a first from LAL. I've never really cared for Hayes, but I've liked Lewis for similar reasons as I like Wesley, and it's a position of need. If the pick were something like that Laker pick in 2024 or ideally the NOP/LAL pick for this year unprotected, that would be a good haul.

NOP has an option on LA's 2024 pick though. They can choose to take either their 2024 or 2025 first, so LA can't trade either pick.

[jeebus]

I'd definitely take Keldon, Jakob, and Chicago's 2025 first over a broken down Mute Cancer today.

Definitely. That trade is looking better by the day. He's only played 170 games in the past 5 years, barely over 2 seasons' worth. He can't get healthy, he can't stay healthy, and it's not like his degenerative quad issue isn't getting better with age. Toronto got a title out of it, I'm fine with that. He's eating $40 million a year with the Clippers, and one of those years he never stepped foot on the floor, which I'm also fine with. At least it's not us paying for Brandon Roy 2.0

[Chinook]

I think it's more like the Raptors haul versus, Bridges, Covington or the what ended up being multiple picks after everything was said and done from LAC

Harris and 11 was that trade.

11 became SGA

Harris was traded for Shamet, Chandler, Muscala and firsts that became Saddiq Bey, Mfiondu Kabengele and Tre Mann, thought it's sort of complicated because LAC dumped the pick originally when it wasn't differentiated to get Kabengele in 2019. Then they reacquired the pick for Landry Shamet in 2020 before sending that pick to Detroit. So Shamet isn't "on top of" those draft picks, but was basically allowed LAC to get the 19th pick twice after they burned in on a center they'd dump a couple of years later.

Even ignoring the possibility of getting 12 with 11, you can see the Spurs would've had chances to do some damage with those picks. You can fanfic your way to something like Maxey, SGA, Keldon, Bey, Kai Jones and seconds without many gymnastics. That ignores the win-now value DeRozan gave the team and the follow-up trades for DeRozan the Spurs rebuffed at the time. There really were better potential deals, especially if only looking at it from the lens of the best players in 2022. That's covered-as-shit ground, and I wouldn't change it now. But having this as Kawhi vs Johnson to measure the value of the return isn't fair.

[Chinook]

NOP has an option on LA's 2024 pick though. They can choose to take either their 2024 or 2025 first, so LA can't trade either pick.

Was talking about a trade with NOP, hence mentioning Jaxon Hayes and Kira Lewis.

[timvp]

I don't know that the press conference is going to be the slam dunk for them that you fear it would be.

To be clear, I don't think it's going to be a slam dunk for Buzbee. The Spurs have multiple people on the payroll whose job duty it is to make sure something like this doesn't spiral out of control. Hell, Brian Wright himself is uniquely qualified to deal with this situation. I won't get into details but his education and background should almost guarantee he knew what protocols to follow if there were Primo accusations. Of course, there's a chance that the Spurs fell so in love with Primo's potential that they went out of their way to protect him ... but I'd be surprised if that were the case. Primo was never a high-level basketball prospect based on physical tools or current skills. The thought process behind Primo as the potential franchise player was that his extreme high character, work ethic and leadership could allow him to maximize his mediocre physical abilities. Once the high character egg was broken, all the allure of Primo the potential franchise player disappears.

An attorney friend I talked to today is confident the Spurs are in the clear. His viewpoint is basically that even in a scenario where the Spurs had reports that Joshua was allegedly showing off his primo to unsuspecting women, there's no way they are going to be liable for having him talk to the team psychologist. That's where you'd send a player who is potentially have that sort of mental breakdown. For the psychologist to have a claim, it'd take a unique circumstance where the Spurs knew about the allegations but didn't clue her in -- but that would be highly unusual. He also said that Primo's actions are a classic sign of schizophrenia, which for males typically pops up right around the ages of 19 or 20. So if Primo was having schizophrenia-related episodes, they probably came out of nowhere and it'd be close to impossible for the Spurs to be liable. (Of course, I'm not a lawyer or a mental health expert so perhaps some of this is off-base and I'm obviously not condoning anything Primo did or minimizing what the psychologist went through.)

I guess we'll find out on Thursday.

[baseline bum]

An attorney friend I talked to today is confident the Spurs are in the clear. His viewpoint is basically that even in a scenario where the Spurs had reports that Joshua was allegedly showing off his primo to unsuspecting women, there's no way they are going to be liable for having him talk to the team psychologist. That's where you'd send a player who is potentially have that sort of mental breakdown. For the psychologist to have a claim, it'd take a unique circumstance where the Spurs knew about the allegations but didn't clue her in -- but that would be highly unusual. He also said that Primo's actions are a classic sign of schizophrenia, which for males typically pops up right around the ages of 19 or 20. So if Primo was having schizophrenia-related episodes, they probably came out of nowhere and it'd be close to impossible for the Spurs to be liable. (Of course, I'm not a lawyer or a mental health expert so perhaps some of this is off-base and I'm obviously not condoning anything Primo did or minimizing what the psychologist went through.)


Schizophrenia? I don't see that at all. My uncle had schizophrenia and it looked way different from anything I have ever seen or heard of with Primo. He used to think he was having conversations with the radio and killed a guy because the radio told him to. The drugs they put you on to control it turn you into a complete space cadet too, they make things so slow. I wouldn't wish that disease on my worst enemy.

[TD 21]

It's unclear if the 3 teams supposedly interested last season still are or who is outside of them (especially with so many contenders or aspiring ones out picks), but under no circumstances should Poeltl be retained.

Doing so would defeat the primary purpose of trading Murray.



I don't think two firsts is realistic, but I could see a first and a prospect plus filler. Someone on RGM mentioned Poeltl for Haynes, Lewis and a first from LAL. I've never really cared for Hayes, but I've liked Lewis for similar reasons as I like Wesley, and it's a position of need. If the pick were something like that Laker pick in 2024 or ideally the NOP/LAL pick for this year unprotected, that would be a good haul.

The Hornets should tank, but let's say they don't either organically or otherwise and are still interested (no sure thing with Richards being a revelation and Williams, though underwhelming early, still fresh), I'd rather try to get them to lower the protection on the '23 1st to 7ish, take Plumlee and Jones over that.

Not that the Pelicans would be interested anyway, with 3 limited shooting quality bigs already in tow (Williamson, Valanciunas, Nance Jr.).

[Chinook]

Schizophrenia? I don't see that at all. My uncle had schizophrenia and it looked way different from anything I have ever seen or heard of with Primo. He used to think he was having conversations with the radio and killed a guy because the radio told him to. The drugs they put you on to control it turn you into a complete space cadet too, they make things so slow. I wouldn't wish that disease on my worst enemy.

I do think treatment for Schizophrenia has progressed over the years. It's possible you know people with it who are able to still live their lives. I've talked to some people who have been diagnosed, and while they were sort of odd, I have a feeling that their oddness is why they told me rather than it being a rule for their condition. If that's what's going on with Primo, it's possible he can and might already be getting treatment for it. That could be why the psychologist is concerned about HIPAA violations. She may know WHY he did it, or why it's hard for him to control his behavior all of the time, which could explain why she didn't immediately escalate that. And maybe the issues stopped until the hotel thing, which made the Spurs cut him to force him to get treatment. I don't love that idea. I think if they were really concerned with his health and felt that he could be rehabilitated, they might've sat him for the year. It may seem like they need the roster spot, but they didn't. That lends credibility to the idea that the lawsuit motivated the response.

Assuming Primo really has been diagnosed with a condition the psychologist can reveal, it'd be interesting to see how the approach these proceedings. Hell, if they can't find a second woman willing to come forward, the case might end up being, "This player suffering from a mental illness flashed his doctor, and she is blaming the team for it." Or maybe it'll be, "The team knew this mentally unhinged guy was running around posing a risk to others and covered it up."

[Chinook]

The Hornets should tank, but let's say they don't either organically or otherwise and are still interested (no sure thing with Richards being a revelation and Williams, though underwhelming early, still fresh), I'd rather try to get them to lower the protection on the '23 1st to 7ish, take Plumlee and Jones over that.

Not that the Pelicans would be interested anyway, with 3 limited shooting quality bigs already in tow (Williamson, Valanciunas, Nance Jr.).

The Spurs honestly don't need to waste more roster spots on front-court players. They have so many folks who deserve minutes over Jones, though obviously if they can get a top-10 pick out of this, it's a competitive offer. I'm not sure if it beats a double pick, especially if the Hornets win more games after this deal.

The Pelicans traded a first for Adams and then another first to dump him. I don't think they know what kind of center they want. I do think they're an odd choice, but it wasn't a Spurs fan who suggested that idea. Feels more like Richardson would be the guy NOP would want.

[Ariel]

He also said that Primo's actions are a classic sign of schizophrenia, which for males typically pops up right around the ages of 19 or 20. So if Primo was having schizophrenia-related episodes, they probably came out of nowhere and it'd be close to impossible for the Spurs to be liable. (Of course, I'm not a lawyer or a mental health expert so perhaps some of this is off-base and I'm obviously not condoning anything Primo did or minimizing what the psychologist went through.)
It doesn't take schizophrenia to be a pervert. But this is truly the last case I'd want to see happen, it'd be a tragedy to see such a young and otherwise normal kid fall into such dark path that's completely out of his control. Still, that's an extremely serious condition and I'd tend to think both the Spurs and the psychologist would be acting very differently were that the case.

[Chinook]

It doesn't take schizophrenia to be a pervert. But this is truly the last case I'd want to see happen, it'd be a tragedy to see such a young and otherwise normal kid fall into such dark path that's completely out of his control. Still, that's an extremely serious condition and I'd tend to think both the Spurs and the psychologist would be acting very differently were that the case.

To be fair, they were acting differently before this lawyer got involved...

[Maddog]

Schizophrenia? I don't see that at all. My uncle had schizophrenia and it looked way different from anything I have ever seen or heard of with Primo. He used to think he was having conversations with the radio and killed a guy because the radio told him to. The drugs they put you on to control it turn you into a complete space cadet too, they make things so slow. I wouldn't wish that disease on my worst enemy.
Don't know Primo well, but I doubt the schizophrenia angle.
While schizophrenia is frequently diagnosed at that age range there are almost always signs beforehand often even as children. . People tend to focus on the delusions and hallucinations, but there are disorganized behavior, social withdrawal.
While there are exceptions, Hard to think he'd gotten this far.

Now bipolar...

[timvp]

Schizophrenia? I don't see that at all. My uncle had schizophrenia and it looked way different from anything I have ever seen or heard of with Primo. He used to think he was having conversations with the radio and killed a guy because the radio told him to. The drugs they put you on to control it turn you into a complete space cadet too, they make things so slow. I wouldn't wish that disease on my worst enemy.

Yeah, hearing voices is what I thought of as schizophrenia. But Google says that a first sign of schizophrenia is a person doing outlandish behavior that is obviously socially unacceptable -- so flashing your psychologist to torpedo your multimillion dollar career probably falls in that category. I don't know, tbh.

Whatever happens, this is looking like it'll be a mess. If Primo had some sort of psychotic break from reality, it'd be difficult not to feel at least a little sorry for him. By all accounts I've heard, at some point in time, he was an awesome kid. Then again, if he's just a scumbag who let the money go to his head, then I hope he gets what he deserves.

[Ariel]

People still don't understand the Spurs actually did well on that trade.

A recap of the original trade and follow ups:

Traded Kawhi Leonard + Danny Green to Toronto for DeMar DeRozan + Jakob Poeltl + Toronto's 2019 1st round pick.
Drafted Keldon Johnson using Toronto's 2019 1st (#29)
Got Detroit's 2022 1st by taking in Hutchinson
Traded DDR for Thaddeus Young + Al Farouq Aminu + Chicago's 2025 1st (protected 10/8/8) + Lakers 2022 2nd + Chicago's 2025 2nd
Traded Thaddeus Young + Eubanks + Detroit's 2022 2nd for Toronto's 2022 1st + Goran Dragic
Drafted Branham using Toronto's 2022 1st (#20)
Traded Lakers' 2022 2nd for Lakers' 2024 2nd (by drafting Kennedy Chandler and trading his rights to Memphis)

So to this date the balance is something like this:
COSTS:


One year's worth of Kawhi Leonard (was gone anyway)
Danny Green (31 y.o.)
Drew Eubanks (:lol)
took in the expiring contracts of Hutchinson, Aminu, Young (half a season) & Dragic (half a season)

BENEFITS:

3 seasons of DDR (hey... it's technically accurate...)
Jakob Poeltl (4 seasons + whatever we can get for him)
Keldon Johnson (Toronto's 2019 1st)
Malaki Branham (Toronto's 2022 1st)
Chicago's 2025 1st (protected 10/8/8)
Lakers' 2024 2nd
Chicago's 2025 2nd

Probably the Spurs could have gotten a better deal for Kawhi in the first place, but in time and taking in consideration subsequent moves, the return for what would have been one season of a disgruntled and often injured Leonard doesn't seem too bad, does it?

[Russ]

An attorney friend I talked to today is confident the Spurs are in the clear.

Always a bad sign.


The Spurs have multiple people on the payroll whose job duty it is to make sure something like this doesn't spiral out of control. Hell, Brian Wright himself is uniquely qualified to deal with this situation. I won't get into details but his education and background should almost guarantee he knew what protocols to follow if there were Primo accusations.

Everything is a double-edged sword in these matters. The Spurs put this in a professional's hands early. That's great except that . . . does that mean they must have known?

Doing what seems like the right thing can, ironically, hurt you in the worst way. Being fat, dumb and happy can end up helping. It's an inexact science, this human stuff.

Usually, it comes down to who we like. Does the NBA like the Spurs?

Or maybe the league would look more kindly if it was the Celtics?

There's no principle you can rely on in any of this. None at all.

[The Truth #6]

There is a version where the psychologist is a part of the coverup and also a victim. It was her job to help with his mental health (granted, not completely altruistically but to help him be a better basketball player) and she is the first to know of his issues but for job security and pressure from above didn’t alert anyone. I mean, was she negligent for not reporting a criminal offense that he revealed? It’s tricky. Not saying this is my preferred interpretation but she easily could be one of the first to know. And because she’s not really there to heal him (my opinion), it’s a complicated conflict of interests.

[lmbebo]

Schizophrenia? I don't see that at all. My uncle had schizophrenia and it looked way different from anything I have ever seen or heard of with Primo. He used to think he was having conversations with the radio and killed a guy because the radio told him to. The drugs they put you on to control it turn you into a complete space cadet too, they make things so slow. I wouldn't wish that disease on my worst enemy.

Not an expert in schizophrenia, but believe it can take different forms. Once had dealt with ex-harvard professor who had schizophrenia. Checked themselves into a pysch hospital.

[gambit1990]

what press conference ??

[lefty20]

what press conference ??

The Shrink and her lawyer are doing a presser on Thursday.

[The Truth #6]

I am somewhat an expert in schizophrenia, relatively speaking, though still learning, and it seems unlikely Primo has this disorder. Also, you can have psychotic symptoms (related to substance use or trauma) but not have schizophrenia. Schizophrenia is divided into positive symptoms (symptoms that are added from schizophrenia—hallucinations and delusions mostly) and negative symptoms (aspects that are taken away from schizophrenia, usually leading to a flat affect, dulled cognition, confusion, and inertia). From afar, Primo doesn’t seem to have negative symptoms. He could have positive symptoms like voices or delusions compelling him to exhibit, but I’ve never personally seen an example of that.

Starting with Exhibitionism (which literally seems to be what’s going on) is a good start: https://www.merckmanuals.com/professional/psychiatric-disorders/paraphilic-disorders/exhibitionistic-disorder

Schizophrenia can be mild but typically not so much in the USA. Due to lack of acceptance and cultural values, yhis is probably the worst place in the world to have it. Sub Saharan Africa, the best.

Treatments are still a work in progress and usually are started too late. The most effective medication for schizophrenia, Clozaril, unfortunately is also deadly because it can lower your white blood cell count and you have to get labs frequently.

Anyway. Primo may just have a paraphilia disorder, but sadly only his victim, the psychologist, knows for sure, and now she’s suing him.

[BacktoBasics]

We are fucking way down a rabbit hole here.

Dude has a kink. Likes to expose himself or be watched. Simple run of the mill thrill.

He got popped being too open and loose with his kink.

This dude isn’t a schitzo. He’s a super horny 19 year old.

ST over ANALyzing as usual.

[scott]

I am somewhat an expert in schizophrenia, relatively speaking, though still learning, and it seems unlikely Primo has this disorder. Also, you can have psychotic symptoms (related to substance use or trauma) but not have schizophrenia. Schizophrenia is divided into positive symptoms (symptoms that are added from schizophrenia—hallucinations and delusions mostly) and negative symptoms (aspects that are taken away from schizophrenia, usually leading to a flat affect, dulled cognition, confusion, and inertia). From afar, Primo doesn’t seem to have negative symptoms. He could have positive symptoms like voices or delusions compelling him to exhibit, but I’ve never personally seen an example of that.

Starting with Exhibitionism (which literally seems to be what’s going on) is a good start: https://www.merckmanuals.com/professional/psychiatric-disorders/paraphilic-disorders/exhibitionistic-disorder

Schizophrenia can be mild but typically not so much in the USA. Due to lack of acceptance and cultural values, yhis is probably the worst place in the world to have it. Sub Saharan Africa, the best.

Treatments are still a work in progress and usually are started too late. The most effective medication for schizophrenia, Clozaril, unfortunately is also deadly because it can lower your white blood cell count and you have to get labs frequently.

Anyway. Primo may just have a paraphilia disorder, but sadly only his victim, the psychologist, knows for sure, and now she’s suing him.

This is a fascinating aspect of this whole thing. If Primo had some past trauma a diagnosed disorder of some kind, it puts the therapist in an interesting position. I am not claiming to have any experience or knowledge of this, I’m just thinking through it… but I don’t think a doctor would press charges or file suit against a patient who suffers from some kind of disorder (autism, for example) that may manifest itself in physical altercation. (Hopefully someone with direct knowledge can address this).

So this puts the therapist in a unique position. On one hand, she is suing (we assume) Primo and the Spurs for… something we don’t know yet (interestingly she is not attempting to press charges and as far as we know no police report has even been filed). If Primo’s actions were the result of some diagnosed condition, she would be the person best suited to testify to that… but she’s conflicted in that regard because she is suing, thus providing her the incentive to downplay any condition Primo may have.

Which leads to what many others have suggested, maybe she isn’t going after Primo at all but rather the Spurs for… something, we don’t yet know. I find it hard to believe though that the Spurs would not have protocols and SOPs in place for how to deal with workplace incidents and would be so foolish as to have wonton disregard for employee safety to the degree to leave them liable for the actions of one of their players.

I still stand by my hypothesis… the therapist reported an incident to the Spurs… they had an investigation performed which came back inconclusive, which caused her to quit. More incidents came to light and now there is cause for the damaged party to say “I brought this to light and the Spurs did nothing, so they are liable for everything that happened”. I believe that accusation is more damaging from a PR perspective than a legal perspective though. So long as an investigation was carried out properly, the Spurs would have little to no liability for not taking action on an incident they could not verify.

These situations are difficult and really SUCK from the company perspective. When one employee alleges an incident, these are the most likely outcomes of an investigation:


Investigation conclusively verifies the allegation. You appropriate discipline the offending party and make the appropriate moves to protect the victim against retaliation/further exposure if the discipline fall short of termination. This is the cleanest scenario.
Investigation is inconclusive or cannot credibly verify the incident. This is usually does not end in the victim saying “oh shit, I must have been mistaken, thanks for looking into it.” Instead this typically leads to a LOT of hard feelings, many times it leads in the victim leaving. What you don’t want to do as a company is apply unjust punishment to the alleged perp (a suspension may be appropriate as often you can pin them for something else than the alleged incident - at the very least of not acting in a manner consistent with the expectations of their position). If you discipline too hard, you face being accused of unlawful termination (even if you don’t terminate).


The worst case scenarios for the Spurs, neither of which I think is likely because I think they are too smart for this as an organization:

They investigated the incident, it was confirmed, and they did nothing to Primo. That’s bad.
They retaliated against the therapist by terminating or not renewing her contact as a way to solve the problem (if you can’t work with Primo, we understand… I guess you can’t work here). The more I think of it… this might be the angle. Which would also be very bad.


Companies the size of SS&E don’t typically make these kind of boneheaded mistakes in 2022… but sometimes they do…

[TD 21]

The Spurs honestly don't need to waste more roster spots on front-court players. They have so many folks who deserve minutes over Jones, though obviously if they can get a top-10 pick out of this, it's a competitive offer. I'm not sure if it beats a double pick, especially if the Hornets win more games after this deal.

The Pelicans traded a first for Adams and then another first to dump him. I don't think they know what kind of center they want. I do think they're an odd choice, but it wasn't a Spurs fan who suggested that idea. Feels more like Richardson would be the guy NOP would want.

Only Sochan and Collins would necessarily deserve minutes over Jones, but I view his inclusion as equal parts filler/flyer.

The trade would be more so about significantly increasing the chances of getting a quality pick within' the next few years.

That was then. The Pelicans have their best team in 15 years and Valanciunas is a good enough fit (clearly the ideal one is a floor spacing rim protector) to get by.

[K...]

This is a fascinating aspect of this whole thing. If Primo had some past trauma a diagnosed disorder of some kind, it puts the therapist in an interesting position. I am not claiming to have any experience or knowledge of this, I’m just thinking through it… but I don’t think a doctor would press charges or file suit against a patient who suffers from some kind of disorder (autism, for example) that may manifest itself in physical altercation. (Hopefully someone with direct knowledge can address this).

So this puts the therapist in a unique position. On one hand, she is suing (we assume) Primo and the Spurs for… something we don’t know yet (interestingly she is not attempting to press charges and as far as we know no police report has even been filed). If Primo’s actions were the result of some diagnosed condition, she would be the person best suited to testify to that… but she’s conflicted in that regard because she is suing, thus providing her the incentive to downplay any condition Primo may have.

Which leads to what many others have suggested, maybe she isn’t going after Primo at all but rather the Spurs for… something, we don’t yet know. I find it hard to believe though that the Spurs would not have protocols and SOPs in place for how to deal with workplace incidents and would be so foolish as to have wonton disregard for employee safety to the degree to leave them liable for the actions of one of their players.

I still stand by my hypothesis… the therapist reported an incident to the Spurs… they had an investigation performed which came back inconclusive, which caused her to quit. More incidents came to light and now there is cause for the damaged party to say “I brought this to light and the Spurs did nothing, so they are liable for everything that happened”. I believe that accusation is more damaging from a PR perspective than a legal perspective though. So long as an investigation was carried out properly, the Spurs would have little to no liability for not taking action on an incident they could not verify.

These situations are difficult and really SUCK from the company perspective. When one employee alleges an incident, these are the most likely outcomes of an investigation:


Investigation conclusively verifies the allegation. You appropriate discipline the offending party and make the appropriate moves to protect the victim against retaliation/further exposure if the discipline fall short of termination. This is the cleanest scenario.
Investigation is inconclusive or cannot credibly verify the incident. This is usually does not end in the victim saying “oh shit, I must have been mistaken, thanks for looking into it.” Instead this typically leads to a LOT of hard feelings, many times it leads in the victim leaving. What you don’t want to do as a company is apply unjust punishment to the alleged perp (a suspension may be appropriate as often you can pin them for something else than the alleged incident - at the very least of not acting in a manner consistent with the expectations of their position). If you discipline too hard, you face being accused of unlawful termination (even if you don’t terminate).


The worst case scenarios for the Spurs, neither of which I think is likely because I think they are too smart for this as an organization:

They investigated the incident, it was confirmed, and they did nothing to Primo. That’s bad.
They retaliated against the therapist by terminating or not renewing her contact as a way to solve the problem (if you can’t work with Primo, we understand… I guess you can’t work here). The more I think of it… this might be the angle. Which would also be very bad.


Companies the size of SS&E don’t typically make these kind of boneheaded mistakes in 2022… but sometimes they do…

Ok but theres no, “i told you so“ lawsuit!. Obv thursday is the cake and party, but why all you people trying to implicate the Spurs in a Dallas or Pen state style failures. I still think “we know hes a pervert but lets market him as a star and pick up his option“ doesn't pass the smell tests but most of the SPURS ARE DOOMed takes depend on that being true

[Chinook]

Ok but theres no, “i told you so“ lawsuit!. Obv thursday is the cake and party, but why all you people trying to implicate the Spurs in a Dallas or Pen state style failures. I still think “we know hes a pervert but lets market him as a star and pick up his option“ doesn't pass the smell tests but most of the SPURS ARE DOOMed takes depend on that being true

We don't know if there are going to be any revelations. All it would take for this to go from minor to existential is another staffer or two that testifies Primo accosted them after the psychologist made the organization aware of what happened. It would be weird to me if there were other folks Buzbee knew about that he was keeping under his hat, since those folks would likely want to be paid too. But I'm not sure if paying an unnamed person in that type of situation is something that would be disclosed or not. If they can show Pop and the other execs knew and either did nothing or helped cover it up and as a result let other women get flashed, it would be really bad. That revelation doesn't seem likely. But the ESPN article does list multiple allegations that motivated the Spurs' decision. A lot of us assume it's the hotel worker and the psychologist. But it could be others, including others who only got flashed because the Spurs didn't address the situation.

[jbspurs]

Pops fault why Primo got in trouble. Kid just want more playing time.

[vy65]

Off the top of my head, don’t the spurs have greater liability if they take an adverse employment action against Primo if Primo has a diagnosed mental condition? I don’t pretend to know how the CBA deals with that issue, but off the cuff, what they did doesn’t jive with a player having a mental disorder.

[scott]

Ok but theres no, “i told you so“ lawsuit!. Obv thursday is the cake and party, but why all you people trying to implicate the Spurs in a Dallas or Pen state style failures. I still think “we know hes a pervert but lets market him as a star and pick up his option“ doesn't pass the smell tests but most of the SPURS ARE DOOMed takes depend on that being true

The “I told you so” is a precursor to other actions to which the victim would claim damages. “I told you so, and you retaliated by firing me” or “I told you so and your reaction was boys will be boys and you continued to direct me to be in harms way against my wishes (thereby causing my effective wrongful termination)”

We also know anyone can sue for anything at anytime. Most plaintiff attorney’s don’t waste their time (and in fact can be slapped down by the courts) for filing frivolous lawsuits, but even if the therapist felt truly aggrieved in some reasonable way, this rises above the hurdle of frivolity. Especially if the goal of the plaintiff and their attorney is a settlement - that will be strongly pushed for ahead of the motion to dismiss phase, and I’ve seen cases where employers settle for weaker cases that even the weakest scenario we can envision.

[scott]

Off the top of my head, don’t the spurs have greater liability if they take an adverse employment action against Primo if Primo has a diagnosed mental condition? I don’t pretend to know how the CBA deals with that issue, but off the cuff, what they did doesn’t jive with a player having a mental disorder.

Maybe there is a CBA issue, but I don’t think there is a general employment law issue. The adverse employment action wasn’t taken because Primo has a mental condition, it is because he violated some other policy - it doesn’t matter if his mental condition made him do it.

[RC_Drunkford]

so there were 3 instances where Primo pulled out. The question is the timeline

[XDT76]

I'd definitely take Keldon, Jakob, and Chicago's 2025 first over a broken down Mute Cancer today.

By extension we also got a nice young branham.

[Maddog]

so there were 3 instances where Primo pulled out. The question is the timeline

Where is that info from?

[RobinsontoDuncan]

I don’t see the press conference as any sort of fact finding mission. Seems like pure leverage to force the Spurs into settling to avoid bad PR. But it depends if the Spurs also play to the media to tell their side. But they never do that so I could see a settlement before Thursday.

Yes, agreed. The wording of the media advisory makes it clear that Buzbee has a few bones to pick with the Spurs and he’s going to air those grievances. This is a leverage play, and it looks really bad for the Spurs FO. Why not just come to terms when the demand letter was sent? This is a pretty open and shut case.

[RC_Drunkford]

Where is that info from?

The Ringer's The Mismatch Podcast 1:12:00

Chris Vernon said it on there

[JeffDuncan]

Maybe there is a CBA issue, but I don’t think there is a general employment law issue. The adverse employment action wasn’t taken because Primo has a mental condition, it is because he violated some other policy - it doesn’t matter if his mental condition made him do it.


Not a question of team policy, Primo violated the terms of his player contract, which contains a morals clause.

[toki9]

so there were 3 instances where Primo pulled out. The question is the timeline

If the Minnesota hotel story is true, and if he only did it once with the psychologist, then 2 are accounted for, right?

[XDT76]

Not a question of team policy, Primo violated the terms of his player contract, which contains a morals clause.

If that is the case, why isn't he fired instead of waived.

[JeffDuncan]

If that is the case, why isn't he fired instead of waived.


The Spurs would have to explain why they did what they did. But a reason to terminate him would also have justified any lesser action, at the team’s discretion.

P.S. I’ll hazard a guess that waiver was the quickest and surest way to be rid of him, since it’s so well established in the NBA.

[RC_Drunkford]

If the Minnesota hotel story is true, and if he only did it once with the psychologist, then 2 are accounted for, right?

I would think so, yes

[MultiTroll]

The therapist
Is it known under what circumstances Hillary and the Spurs parted ways?

[MultiTroll]

"The veracity of public statements by the Spurs organization" = Buzbee saying he's going to air alllllllllll the dirt laundry. Who knows what he has but he could be going all the way back to the Spurs praising Primo when they picked him.
Oh to have dirt on Buzbee.

[Wu36]

Is it known if the prep school thing really happened. Like could he have “exposed” himself to the therapist by admitting an act from school. Yet not actually having flashed the therapist. She brings it up to front office and they claim not to have found anything in predraft. Then the hotel thing happens.?

[NickiRasgo]

Sorry for a stupid question/s but is Primo's career over in NBA? And/or with the Spurs?
Is there gonna be a trial? If he'll be cleared, is the Spurs still interested to sign him back or the organization is not interested anymore?

The reason why I'm asking is because it's a bit similar with Kobe's situation (rape accusation) before but it's not like Josh touched the victim/s, AFAIK.
Obviously he's not Kobe and Josh still a no name player so there's not much immunity on his part but I'm not sure how grave is his case in San Antonio, Texas.
Or is the NBA and the organization are being strict lately given with Miles' situation lately but Miles' situation is more serious.

I'm not saying what Josh did is okay and it's wrong but I'm quite curious as well if this happen to a player like Keldon or Devin if there'll be a double-standard.

[NickiRasgo]

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