Atlanta Hawks 2025 Draft Pick Watch

[onechance87]

They are not. I don't know how they beat the Cs and Cavs but vs Charlotte they looked pretty bad. It's just that the East is silly and if you are a none tanking team in a tanking year thats enough for the Play In.

bro all the teams in the east look bad.Difference is they want to tank,Atl dont care to tank and gain nothing from tanking.They proved they
could beat the best teams and got to a confidence booster for them that can beat anybody.

[mudyez]

Is there an echo in here?

[Strategic]

Maybe the Hawks can’t beat a shit pelican team. We can always hope.

[heyheymymy]

We need some bird on bird crime as the NOLA Pelicans are up 52-44 on the ATL Hawks 2:56 remaining in the 2nd Q

[DAF86]

It seems almost guaranteed that the Hawks will have a top 8 record in the East this season. If only for the sole reason that they have no incentive to tank. The only chance was for them to be laughably bad, and that doesn't seem to be the case.

[Strategic]

A west team losing to the hawks. What a disgrace!

[scott]

It seems almost guaranteed that the Hawks will have a top 8 record in the East this season. If only for the sole reason that they have no incentive to tank. The only chance was for them to be laughably bad, and that doesn't seem to be the case.

This board was too blinded by delusions of Cooper Flaggscicles to see this coming, despite the warnings. Last year during the Trae rumors the usual suspects wanted to convince everyone (maybe even themselves) that the Hawks were doomed with no way of getting better and their only choice was to sell Young for pennies on the dollar. Instead, the Hawks went out and did a pretty solid recouperation job on Murray* and landed the #1 pick. They're an entertaining team to watch. It will be interesting to see Atlanta become small-move buyers towards the deadline as it becomes more evident they'll make the playoffs.

In the end...

San Antonio receives:

2025 FRP from ATL (will probably end up around #16-20
2026 FRP Swap (my estimation is that this will probably end up jumping us from like Pick #25 to Pick #18 next year)
2027 FRP from ATL (I actually think ATL will stay a playoff team for the next few years... Daniels, Jalen Johnson, Risacher and Trae ain't a bad core by any means, so I'll peg this around pick #20)

Atlanta Receives:

Dyson Daniels
Larry Nance Jr (who I'm thinking they'll probably flip for some SRPs at some point)
EJ Liddell (who they flipped for David Roddy, who is putting in some helpful minutes for them)
2025 FRP from LAL (will probably end up around pick 18-20)
2027 FRP (lesser of NOP and MIL, so call this pick #24 or so).

The 2025 and 2027 picks are probably about a wash (but we'll see... maybe the Spurs still get lotto picks), so ATL basically traded a 2026 swap for Dyson Daniels.

Right now it's looking like a rare W for both teams.

[mudyez]

At least die Clippers are doing well too. Giving OKC one of the top players in this draft could create a pretty high hurdle to deal with in the Wemby era. (Not saying they are not our main hurdle anyway.)

[CGD]

This board was too blinded by delusions of Cooper Flaggscicles to see this coming, despite the warnings. Last year during the Trae rumors the usual suspects wanted to convince everyone (maybe even themselves) that the Hawks were doomed with no way of getting better and their only choice was to sell Young for pennies on the dollar. Instead, the Hawks went out and did a pretty solid recouperation job on Murray* and landed the #1 pick. They're an entertaining team to watch. It will be interesting to see Atlanta become small-move buyers towards the deadline as it becomes more evident they'll make the playoffs.

In the end...

San Antonio receives:

2025 FRP from ATL (will probably end up around #16-20
2026 FRP Swap (my estimation is that this will probably end up jumping us from like Pick #25 to Pick #18 next year)
2027 FRP from ATL (I actually think ATL will stay a playoff team for the next few years... Daniels, Jalen Johnson, Risacher and Trae ain't a bad core by any means, so I'll peg this around pick #20)

Atlanta Receives:

Dyson Daniels
Larry Nance Jr (who I'm thinking they'll probably flip for some SRPs at some point)
EJ Liddell (who they flipped for David Roddy, who is putting in some helpful minutes for them)
2025 FRP from LAL (will probably end up around pick 18-20)
2027 FRP (lesser of NOP and MIL, so call this pick #24 or so).

The 2025 and 2027 picks are probably about a wash (but we'll see... maybe the Spurs still get lotto picks), so ATL basically traded a 2026 swap for Dyson Daniels.

Right now it's looking like a rare W for both teams.

Atlanta did good to recover from Murray debacle. The Spurs still made a damn good deal for a middling Murray, regardless of what Atlanta did later to save face.

The Derrick White deal on the other hand looks terrible with each passing day.

[LeBowen]

Atlanta did good to recover from Murray debacle. The Spurs still made a damn good deal for a middling Murray, regardless of what Atlanta did later to save face.

The Derrick White deal on the other hand looks terrible with each passing day.

It looks terrible because they developed him into a way better player.
He was barely a 35% career shooter with us on low volume, he's at 39% on 6 attempts in Boston.


This board was too blinded by delusions of Cooper Flaggscicles to see this coming, despite the warnings. Last year during the Trae rumors the usual suspects wanted to convince everyone (maybe even themselves) that the Hawks were doomed with no way of getting better and their only choice was to sell Young for pennies on the dollar. Instead, the Hawks went out and did a pretty solid recouperation job on Murray* and landed the #1 pick. They're an entertaining team to watch. It will be interesting to see Atlanta become small-move buyers towards the deadline as it becomes more evident they'll make the playoffs.

In the end...

San Antonio receives:

2025 FRP from ATL (will probably end up around #16-20
2026 FRP Swap (my estimation is that this will probably end up jumping us from like Pick #25 to Pick #18 next year)
2027 FRP from ATL (I actually think ATL will stay a playoff team for the next few years... Daniels, Jalen Johnson, Risacher and Trae ain't a bad core by any means, so I'll peg this around pick #20)

Atlanta Receives:

Dyson Daniels
Larry Nance Jr (who I'm thinking they'll probably flip for some SRPs at some point)
EJ Liddell (who they flipped for David Roddy, who is putting in some helpful minutes for them)
2025 FRP from LAL (will probably end up around pick 18-20)
2027 FRP (lesser of NOP and MIL, so call this pick #24 or so).

The 2025 and 2027 picks are probably about a wash (but we'll see... maybe the Spurs still get lotto picks), so ATL basically traded a 2026 swap for Dyson Daniels.

Right now it's looking like a rare W for both teams.

This is why I wasn't against trading Hawks picks for Lauri.
They're not a great team, but in a conference with so many horrible teams we were never getting a top10 pick without crazy lottery luck.
Having no incentive to tank is an automatic +10 in W column.

[DAF86]

The Derrick White deal on the other hand looks terrible with each passing day.

I will never Spurs fans that push this narrative. The Derrick White trade needed to happen for the Spurs to get Wemby. The moment we got Wemby, the trade became an unquestionable success.

[Seventyniner]

I will never Spurs fans that push this narrative. The Derrick White trade needed to happen for the Spurs to get Wemby. The moment we got Wemby, the trade became an unquestionable success.

It doesn't work like that. The Spurs didn't have Wemby when they made the trade; the quality of their decision can only be judged using the information they had at the time.

There is also no guarantee that the Spurs wouldn't have gotten Wemby if they had held on to White, or made/not made any of the other moves before 2023. A counterfactual can't be proven.

[scott]

Atlanta did good to recover from Murray debacle. The Spurs still made a damn good deal for a middling Murray, regardless of what Atlanta did later to save face.

The Derrick White deal on the other hand looks terrible with each passing day.

Sorry I didn't mean to suggest the Spurs didn't do well in the trade - just the the Hawks came out pretty good as well.

[scott]

I will never Spurs fans that push this narrative. The Derrick White trade needed to happen for the Spurs to get Wemby. The moment we got Wemby, the trade became an unquestionable success.

I agree with this. We can look back and see how perfect Derrick would be for this team today... but we can't build this team today if we had Derrick the whole time, it's a catch-22 retrospective.

The only thing we could potentially fault the Spurs for on that deal is not getting a better return for Derrick, but I think it says more about how FRPs are overvalued. You can get meaningful players for middling FRPs. Derrick may be on the higher end of the return spectrum for the pick we got back, but it isn't a complete aberration. Let this be a lesson to the Spurs as we approach the trade deadline with what appears to be our own pair of mid FRPs.

[R. DeMurre]

One goal now for the Spurs (and most teams really) is to identify Derrick White types who might be gettable for not too crazy of a price, but who could potentially blossom into valuable glue guys to pair with Wemby & company. My #1 target right now would be Jake LaRavia of Memphis. I liked his game out of Wake Forest the year he was drafted, and he's shown a steady acclimation and improvement to the point this year where, despite not being a big time scorer, he's near the top of nearly all impact stats for the team. He can play both forward positions, plausibly succeed as a starter or a 6th man, and Memphis has some depth at those positions, so an offer involving draft picks might be appealing to them.


https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/laravja01.html

[Sugus]

It doesn't work like that. The Spurs didn't have Wemby when they made the trade; the quality of their decision can only be judged using the information they had at the time.

There is also no guarantee that the Spurs wouldn't have gotten Wemby if they had held on to White, or made/not made any of the other moves before 2023. A counterfactual can't be proven.

It actually does work like that, because while not having Wemby in their hands, the trade was specifically made with the goal of advancing the Spurs' chances of getting him. It directly affected the outcome, and placed the Spurs on the best possible odds for their situation.

And we know this was carefully planned because articles were coming out a year out on how the Spurs were prepping for "getting" Wemby. It was a very deliberate move, a calculated choice to trade DWhite away, and had a generational prospect not been on the board, Spurs very well might've kept him.


This is exactly why it's so bullshit that this board doesn't give the FO the credit it deserves for what they did to get Wemby. They timed their tank perfectly, went all-out for it when many here doubted their commitment to a strategy, a losing one at that; and then they reaped their (very lucky still) reward.

[cd98]

Atlanta is beating the Cavs. They are looking like contenders the last few weeks.

[Sugus]

Atlanta is beating the Cavs. They are looking like contenders the last few weeks.

Wow, isn't this the Cavs' 3rd loss to Atlanta? And weren't they like 16-1 before losing to them? Assholes...

[DAF86]

It doesn't work like that. The Spurs didn't have Wemby when they made the trade; the quality of their decision can only be judged using the information they had at the time.

There is also no guarantee that the Spurs wouldn't have gotten Wemby if they had held on to White, or made/not made any of the other moves before 2023. A counterfactual can't be proven.

Well, every smart person knew at that moment that the only reason the Spurs traded White was to tank properly. I don't know how there's any doubt about that.

[R. DeMurre]

Atlanta is beating the Cavs. They are looking like contenders the last few weeks.

? The Cavs play Washington tonight. Atlanta beat New Orleans last night.

[MannyIsGod]

Sample size! Atlanta has overperformed, but not even 2 months into the season yet so don't assume this is what they will be all season. They've definitely done better than expected, but I want to see this rate of winning continue for awhile before I believe its real. I still have a hard time believing that this team - even in the terrible East - is a legit playoff team.

Also, they've still have a really easy schedule!! I posted this before:

https://www.espn.com/nba/stats/rpi/_/sort/SOS

So far they are +2 in the W column based on their schedule. 9-13 looks a hell of a lot different than 11-11.

[MannyIsGod]

Here are some more stats from Basketball Reference. It is really hard to not make the case that they are punching above their weight right now.

PTS/G: 116.5 (8th of 30) Opp PTS/G: 119.0 (28th of 30)
SRS (https://www.basketball-reference.com/about/glossary.html#srs): -3.84 (23rd of 30) Pace (https://www.basketball-reference.com/about/glossary.html#pace): 103.6 (3rd of 30)
Off Rtg (https://www.basketball-reference.com/about/glossary.html#off_rtg): 112.4 (19th of 30) Def Rtg (https://www.basketball-reference.com/about/glossary.html#def_rtg): 114.9 (19th of 30) Net Rtg: -2.5 (19th of 30)
Expected W-L (https://www.basketball-reference.com/about/glossary.html#wins_pyth): 9-13 (19th of 30)

[DAF86]

Here are some more stats from Basketball Reference. It is really hard to not make the case that they are punching above their weight right now.

PTS/G: 116.5 (8th of 30) Opp PTS/G: 119.0 (28th of 30)
SRS (https://www.basketball-reference.com/about/glossary.html#srs): -3.84 (23rd of 30) Pace (https://www.basketball-reference.com/about/glossary.html#pace): 103.6 (3rd of 30)
Off Rtg (https://www.basketball-reference.com/about/glossary.html#off_rtg): 112.4 (19th of 30) Def Rtg (https://www.basketball-reference.com/about/glossary.html#def_rtg): 114.9 (19th of 30) Net Rtg: -2.5 (19th of 30)
Expected W-L (https://www.basketball-reference.com/about/glossary.html#wins_pyth): 9-13 (19th of 30)

It doesn't matter, they will probably still remain in the top 8 of the ECF once the other teams go full tank mode.

[spurraider21]

Sample size! Atlanta has overperformed, but not even 2 months into the season yet so don't assume this is what they will be all season. They've definitely done better than expected, but I want to see this rate of winning continue for awhile before I believe its real. I still have a hard time believing that this team - even in the terrible East - is a legit playoff team.

Also, they've still have a really easy schedule!! I posted this before:

https://www.espn.com/nba/stats/rpi/_/sort/SOS

So far they are +2 in the W column based on their schedule. 9-13 looks a hell of a lot different than 11-11.
early on they had b2b losses vs washington (the only 2 wizards wins of the season so far). could say boston slept on them without Trae. but then beating Cleveland back to back? sneaking up on them once sure, but b2b is something

[scott]

Sample size! Atlanta has overperformed, but not even 2 months into the season yet so don't assume this is what they will be all season. They've definitely done better than expected, but I want to see this rate of winning continue for awhile before I believe its real. I still have a hard time believing that this team - even in the terrible East - is a legit playoff team.

Also, they've still have a really easy schedule!! I posted this before:

https://www.espn.com/nba/stats/rpi/_/sort/SOS

So far they are +2 in the W column based on their schedule. 9-13 looks a hell of a lot different than 11-11.

They get to play 2/3 of their games against the East. The schedule ain't gonna get that much harder

[MannyIsGod]

early on they had b2b losses vs washington (the only 2 wizards wins of the season so far). could say boston slept on them without Trae. but then beating Cleveland back to back? sneaking up on them once sure, but b2b is something

They're a fringe play in team in the east, IMO. That -2.5 team net rating is pretty telling as is their 119 opp ppg. They've gotten some sneaky wins and Cleveland played bad against them (I watched parts of both of those games) but Cleveland is another team that has been punching well above their weight IMO. They're on a hot streak right now (Atlanta) and it isn't impossible they've turned a corner and that THIS is the real version of them but I am beyond skeptical.

What DAF mentioned above is their biggest positive, IMO. It will be HARD to be a bottom 5 team in the East just because its the East.

[MannyIsGod]

They get to play 2/3 of their games against the East. The schedule ain't gonna get that much harder

Yeah this isn't wrong, but 9-13 and 9-11 are a matter of 5 spots in the East standings. IMO, they're much closer to being in the bottom five than in the top 5 regardless of their current standings.

[scott]

Yeah this isn't wrong, but 9-13 and 9-11 are a matter of 5 spots in the East standings. IMO, they're much closer to being in the bottom five than in the top 5 regardless of their current standings.

True, but as a counterpoint... Tanking SZN hasn't fully kicked into gear yet either (except if you are UTA and WAS)

[R. DeMurre]

I don't think Atlanta is great, but in their defense, being 11-11 while incorporating two new starters in Dyson Daniels plus the rookie Risacher is somewhat impressive. The Spurs started 3-20 last year while trying to get the most heralded rookie of the decade acclimated.

[CGD]

It doesn't work like that. The Spurs didn't have Wemby when they made the trade; the quality of their decision can only be judged using the information they had at the time.

There is also no guarantee that the Spurs wouldn't have gotten Wemby if they had held on to White, or made/not made any of the other moves before 2023. A counterfactual can't be proven.

Exactly this. My gripe is less with trading him, but more the return. Guess we have to reserve judgement until the swap in 2028.

[Seventyniner]

It actually does work like that, because while not having Wemby in their hands, the trade was specifically made with the goal of advancing the Spurs' chances of getting him. It directly affected the outcome, and placed the Spurs on the best possible odds for their situation.

And we know this was carefully planned because articles were coming out a year out on how the Spurs were prepping for "getting" Wemby. It was a very deliberate move, a calculated choice to trade DWhite away, and had a generational prospect not been on the board, Spurs very well might've kept him.


This is exactly why it's so bullshit that this board doesn't give the FO the credit it deserves for what they did to get Wemby. They timed their tank perfectly, went all-out for it when many here doubted their commitment to a strategy, a losing one at that; and then they reaped their (very lucky still) reward.

You might have misunderstood me. I didn't claim that the Derrick White trade was good or bad. I only said that calling it good solely because we got Wemby later doesn't work. It implies that the trade would have been bad if we hadn't gotten Wemby. Good results only sometimes imply good decisions, not always.

The trade raised the Spurs' chances of getting Wemby by maybe 5-6.5% at most because even with Derrick they shouldn't have had too much trouble tanking their way into a bottom 7 record. Given how transformational Wemby is, I can totally see the argument that the trade was worth it under the assumption that the Spurs couldn't have tanked their way into a bottom 3 record with Derrick on the team.

[Bruno]

Hawks are doing a little better than expected but nothing crazy. Some of their players are doing better than expected like Dyson Daniels, some are worst like Trae young. They have had some surprising wins (Celtics, Cavs x2 ) and some surprising loses (Wizards x2 ).

What is more significant is that Sixers and Pacers are doing way worst than projected. It turns Hawks from a team unlikely to make the playoffs to a team likely to make them. What these two teams will do this season is key on where the Hawks pick will land.

West being better than East makes that some picks are almost sure to belong to a conference:
- The two teams with the best records that will miss the playoffs will surely be the two losing teams from the WC play in tournament => pick #13 and #14 will belong to west teams.
- The two teams with the worst records that will make the playoffs will surely be the two winning teams from the EC play in tournament => pick #15 and #16 will belong to east teams.

[venitian navigator]

the point with Atlanta is that they found in Daniels the exact kinf of player they were looking for in Murray....aka a secondary play maker very good at defense that can complement young defensive deficiencies.
All in al their top ten players are not that bad and the team has no reason to tank...

[heyheymymy]

Big night here to get back on track:

ATL needs to lose to MIL

BKN needs to lose to IND

LAL needs to lose to MIA

ORL and PHI I guess either way works and possibly either way for IND/BKN too but I believe more in the Pacers and want them to pull up to push ATL down some. Gotta pull up some of these Eastern Conf teams.

[Kevin]

Trae Young’s stats are kinda wonky so far this season. His advanced continue to spiral down yet his on/off numbers are great this season. +9 on offense and only -1.7 on defense.

[Mr. Body]

Quinn Snyder kind of screwing us.

[TXstbobcat]

Jesus Christ I guess we’re just going to have to Except the fact that this year‘s Hawks are the 86 Celtics.

[heyheymymy]

unfuckingbelievable really

[onechance87]

fck u hawks

[BatManu20]

Atlanta beating a hot Bucks team convincingly on the road. Spurs are gonna have to tank themselves if they want a top-10 pick tbh :lol

[BatManu20]

Snyder has the Hawks playing good team basketball tbh. Jalen Johnson and Dyson Daniels both taking another leapt this year has been huge for them as well.

1864506297749528989

[cutewizard]

The season is long

[heyheymymy]

So Spurs finally get a windfall situation in the DJM trade and the Hawks proceed to:

Jump a statistically anomalous plus 9 slots in the draft to land #1 one year before SA gets control of a series of the Hawks picks, throw a fit trying to trade off of the pick, threatening to hostage select various different presumed team favorites, retool apparently successfully, and are now ruining their 2025 draft pick value in a debatably retaliatory tantrum that feels personal. Just a weird series of events that I'd like to blow out of proportion bitterly.

I totally get it from the Hawks perspective. And they really look good and pretty competitive. The only reward is to the top for them and they shot for it. But fuck.

I mean what do we expect, ATL to just lose for us on purpose? I mean what would it take for them to even consider that? Seriously? 100k? 250? In a strictly hypothetical sense? In a strictly hypothetical briefcase?

[spursparker9]

:lol Fuck. Who knew the Murray trade to Pelicans actually turn their season around.

We need Trae to break a leg tbh

[BatManu20]

:lol Fuck. Who knew the Murray trade to Pelicans actually turn their season around.

We need Trae to break a leg tbh

Trae Young was 6/19 tonight, including 0/9 from 3, and they just beat the hottest team in the league on the road by 15.

Trae's only shooting 36% from the field this year and only 30% from 3. Hawks are playing well despite Trae, not because of him tbh. That's the thing.

Snyder has these guys playing great team ball and winning games despite Trae's struggles.

[Pauleta14]

The season is long

They can get a lot better, Trae isn't great, Risacher gets better and post ASG a lot more team won't care to tank

It's best to lower our expectations on that pick tbh :lol

Our main shot at a lottery pick will be a trade of multiple of our picks imo

[Mugen]

Luckily, the Spurs are not that great so we should end up with a late lottery pick anyways :lol

[Mugen]

If the Lakers continue their tailspin and end up giving the Hawks a top 10 pick in this draft, that wouldnt be great for the '26 swap and '27 pick tbh

BWrong :lol

[LeBowen]

Should've offered those Hawks picks for Markkanen, tbh.

The worst thing is that none of those tanking teams in the East are close to putting it together, with more supposedly playoff teams falling off and getting closer to blowing it up.

[Raven]

It's really about dyson daniels, the guy is just a steals machine. also credit to trae for realising he's garbage and he should just be passing.

[spurraider21]

It's really about dyson daniels, the guy is just a steals machine. also credit to trae for realising he's garbage and he should just be passing.
he won the EC defensive player of the month award. guys gonna be all-defense and deservedly so. such an on-ball menace. which is what the hawks that they were getting in dejounte lol

[spurraider21]

:pctoss

1864738267284836804

[Sugus]

You might have misunderstood me. I didn't claim that the Derrick White trade was good or bad. I only said that calling it good solely because we got Wemby later doesn't work. It implies that the trade would have been bad if we hadn't gotten Wemby. Good results only sometimes imply good decisions, not always.

The trade raised the Spurs' chances of getting Wemby by maybe 5-6.5% at most because even with Derrick they shouldn't have had too much trouble tanking their way into a bottom 7 record. Given how transformational Wemby is, I can totally see the argument that the trade was worth it under the assumption that the Spurs couldn't have tanked their way into a bottom 3 record with Derrick on the team.

No, I understood you just fine. I still disagree with what you're saying here.

Nobody's calling the White trade good because we got Wemby. It was good, solely and foremost, because it increased our odds of getting him significantly. The trade would still have been good if we hadn't gotten him, because we'd still have gotten a top-3 pick in a crucial rebuilding moment.

It's also really unknowable to what extent trading DW away improved the Spurs' odds, but I honestly think it's way more than 5-6%. The PG position is of utter importance to a team's floor, and White was a seasoned vet at that point, with clearly a lot more to give as he's shown in Boston. Trading only Dejounte away might've well paved the way for him to grab that usage and spotlight.


All in all, the old saying applies here "you can do everything right, and still lose". I don't think the White trade was good because we won -- I think it was good because it was the right thing to do given the situation.

[Seventyniner]

Nobody's calling the White trade good because we got Wemby.

Here is the original post I was pushing back against.


I will never Spurs fans that push this narrative. The Derrick White trade needed to happen for the Spurs to get Wemby. The moment we got Wemby, the trade became an unquestionable success.

Note the last sentence.


It was good, solely and foremost, because it increased our odds of getting him significantly. The trade would still have been good if we hadn't gotten him, because we'd still have gotten a top-3 pick in a crucial rebuilding moment.

It's also really unknowable to what extent trading DW away improved the Spurs' odds, but I honestly think it's way more than 5-6%. The PG position is of utter importance to a team's floor, and White was a seasoned vet at that point, with clearly a lot more to give as he's shown in Boston. Trading only Dejounte away might've well paved the way for him to grab that usage and spotlight.

I said a 5-6.5% improvement because a bottom 3 record has a 14% at the #1 pick while the 7th worst record has a 7.5% chance 6th worst has 9%. I think the Spurs could have still tanked their way into a bottom 7 record with Derrick.

Given just how transformational Wemby is, and the Spurs clearly knew that well in advance of the 2022-2023 season, I understand why what seems like a small improvement in odds (5-6.5%) is well worth losing out on keeping Derrick, assuming he would have been willing to stay with the Spurs long-term had they not traded him.

[spursparker9]

Lakers leading by 3. Mid way through 3Q

[TXstbobcat]

LeBron and the Lakers are going to fuck us over by chocking in the 4th quarter against the Hawks

[spursparker9]

FTL. But please win this :lol

[scott]

Trae game winning 3 to beat the Lakers for all the haters :lol

[TXstbobcat]

gotta love it lol. Trae Young game winning 3 in OT to beat the Lakers.

and the hawks continue their run to the ECF fucking up our draft pick along the way lol

[TXstbobcat]

Fuck this hawks draft pick thread and everything it stands for!

[mudyez]

It's stupid, but I still love the Lakers losing.

Maybe we will look back at this and celebrate, when getting a Draft steal at around #20, that becomes a multi time all star.

[spursparker9]

:lol Ice Trae with 30 pts and 20 asts.

Should have traded for him

[onechance87]

Basketball gods hate us

[R. DeMurre]

Basketball gods hate us


They won the #1 pick with a 14% chance a little over a year ago.

[baseline bum]

No, I understood you just fine. I still disagree with what you're saying here.

Nobody's calling the White trade good because we got Wemby. It was good, solely and foremost, because it increased our odds of getting him significantly. The trade would still have been good if we hadn't gotten him, because we'd still have gotten a top-3 pick in a crucial rebuilding moment.

It's also really unknowable to what extent trading DW away improved the Spurs' odds, but I honestly think it's way more than 5-6%. The PG position is of utter importance to a team's floor, and White was a seasoned vet at that point, with clearly a lot more to give as he's shown in Boston. Trading only Dejounte away might've well paved the way for him to grab that usage and spotlight.


All in all, the old saying applies here "you can do everything right, and still lose". I don't think the White trade was good because we won -- I think it was good because it was the right thing to do given the situation.

I think the odds were like 50% at a top 4 pick, but yeah still worth it. Especially since it came out that Amen Thompson would have probably been #2 on their board had they not won the lottery, and thus they would have likely gotten him at any of picks 2 through 4.

[The Truth #6]

Make Atlanta Awful Again

[scott]

I think the odds were like 50% at a top 4 pick, but yeah still worth it. Especially since it came out that Amen Thompson would have probably been #2 on their board had they not won the lottery, and thus they would have likely gotten him at any of picks 2 through 4.

To the FO's credit, Amen has been really good this year. Looking like the third best player of that draft.

[baseline bum]

To the FO's credit, Amen has been really good this year. Looking like the third best player of that draft.

Wouldn't surprise me to see him better than Miller if we revisit in 2-3 years and I love what I have seen out of Miller.

[Mal]

Just use the pick on Ben Sharaf

[KingKev]

Boy was I wrong about ATL. I feel like we are going to come away from the 2025 draft with 12 and 20 and the next round of Sochan and Wesley.

[LeBowen]

To think people really believed Hawks would be even close to top5 odds and got triggered over any trade suggestion that involved their picks claiming they're gold.
As expected, Hawks will be in play-in range and we'll get a pick in 11-18 range. Which is fine, but to see it as an untradeable asset is hillarious.
They're young (no pun intended) and will finally be out of Capela/Nance contracts next summer. No way they drop into the lottery over the next few years considering how weak East is.

[KingKev]

To think people really believed Hawks would be even close to top5 odds and got triggered over any trade suggestion that involved their picks claiming they're gold.
As expected, Hawks will be in play-in range and we'll get a pick in 11-18 range. Which is fine, but to see it as an untradeable asset is hillarious.
They're young (no pun intended) and will finally be out of Capela/Nance contracts next summer. No way they drop into the lottery over the next few years considering how weak East is.

I’m not stupid you are!

[RC_Drunkford]

that 26 swap might be useless tbh

[spursparker9]

The 2025, 2026 swap and 2027 picks are losing value everyday

Should have traded those picks during the off season when people thought Hawks would suck

[MarCowMar]

The 2025, 2026 swap and 2027 picks are losing value everyday

Should have traded those picks during the off season when people thought Hawks would suck

Those picks will have a more traditional Spurs value now that Wemby and Castle are in place. We can consider role players, specialists, and seniors, rather than reaching for potential centerpieces.

The Atlanta 2025 was always unlikely to be high unless catastrophe struck their roster.

[BackHome]

Have to disagree this team is still talent starved as Bill Parcels would say “Your as good as your record”. So I am still looking for studs in the first round in the second round I am won’t look over older seniors with our first second round pick and a draft an stash with second round pick.

[DPG21920]

I cannot believe, in the midst of a murderous schedule, Hawks have ripped off 6 in a row. SO unf*king believable it makes my head hurt.

[DPG21920]

This literally couldn’t be going worse for SA. SA is caught in the worst spot for them where they aren’t bad enough to be bad, but aren’t good enough for playoffs so they will likely get pick 10-14 on their own and ATL is playing incredible for some reason and will likely convey pick 18-22

So pick 12 and 19. Not great.

[CGD]

Fuck this hawks draft pick thread and everything it stands for!

Buckle up, we have 3 more years of this.

[John B]

You forgot that the CHI pick is currently conveying after the ass beating that gave us.

Tankathon has Bulls at 9th right now, not conveying. Hawks winning is really helping Bulls to get in the top 10.

[BackHome]

It will be interesting to see if Bulls fight to stay in 9th or 10 spot or if they decide to go a a run if they start to click.

[Knoxxx]

The Spurs need to tank to the tune of about 35 wins.

We are rolling out a starting lineup of multiple players who average 11-12 points per game which is hot garbage. Yes I know we are easing back Vassell and Sochan but those two players have large question marks as well. Such as Vassell being made of glass and Sochan being a 20% 3 PT shooter.

Looks to me like we need to start clearing out some players and using every draft pick we have to try and find better ones.

[BatManu20]

Spurs need to soft tank tbh. Rest Wemby more games. Play Zollins 40+ minutes, etc. It's our only hope of getting a top-7 pick. ATL is ballin' and aren't showing any signs of slowing down. And they're doing it by playing" the beautiful game" too :cry. Amazing what a good HC like Quin Snyder can help produce.

[John B]

Spurs need to soft tank tbh. Rest Wemby more games. Play Zollins 40+ minutes, etc. It's our only hope of getting a top-7 pick. ATL is ballin' and aren't showing any signs of slowing down. And they're doing it by playing" the beautiful game" too :cry. Amazing what a good HC like Quin Snyder can help produce.

Wemby missed 7 games already with only 23 games in the season. If he missed 10 more games, he would miss on the DPOY. I seriously doubt he’d like that.

[exstatic]

Tankathon has Bulls at 9th right now, not conveying. Hawks winning is really helping Bulls to get in the top 10.

Before the lottery last year, the TOR pick was sitting at #6 and safe for them. Didn’t stay there.

[scott]

Fuck the permatank and everyone who advocates for it

[exstatic]

Wemby missed 7 games already with only 23 games in the season. If he missed 10 more games, he would miss on the DPOY. I seriously doubt he’d like that.

Wemby has missed FIVE games so far, playing 18/23.

[scott]

^^^See Bill_Brasky. Counting confuses people.

[Knoxxx]

We are starting 4 players that don’t even combine to score 50 PPG. That’s a joke, we need to overhaul the roster any which way we can as the movie so titled said.

[Pauleta14]

We are starting 4 players that don’t even combine to score 50 PPG. That’s a joke, we need to overhaul the roster any which way we can as the movie so titled said.

PATFO is too stubborn with their choices and it won't happen as long as here isn't an external hire coaching wise.

They fucking extended Brahman and Wesley ffs :lmao What kind of talent anaylisis is that??

Even 90% of the fanbase still thinks Sochan is elite or Champ amazing (bc of his cheap contract haha)

One poster on ST, who loves acting as if he knows it all, even defended Collins a few days ago saying he's having a good season...

[Mal]

They fucking extended Brahman and Wesley ffs :lmao What kind of talent anaylisis is that??
..

I missed something, or you are refering to picking their options for 3rd and 4th year ?

[Pauleta14]

I missed something, or you are refering to picking their options for 3rd and 4th year ?

That's what I meant.

I know it's not a financial issue but i've rarely seen so limited players last season already and not sure what kind of miraculous change PATFO expected.

The level of a roster is also relative to their worst players

[Jordan Jackson]

PATFO is too stubborn with their choices and it won't happen as long as here isn't an external hire coaching wise.

They fucking extended Brahman and Wesley ffs :lmao What kind of talent anaylisis is that??

Even 90% of the fanbase still thinks Sochan is elite or Champ amazing (bc of his cheap contract haha)

One poster on ST, who loves acting as if he knows it all, even defended Collins a few days ago saying he's having a good season...

I don’t think it’s a coaching issue - it’s a talent one. Always has been.

That Vassell/Sochan/Johnson/Collins/Jones/Wesley/Branham experiment should end sooner rather than later. The GM says he’s trying but he can’t force other teams to make deals with him. Make of that what you will.

I just don’t think winning is a priority at this time. But I would encourage the front office to at least start acquiring NBA level talent relevant to this era of basketball.

[ambchang]

We are starting 4 players that don’t even combine to score 50 PPG. That’s a joke, we need to overhaul the roster any which way we can as the movie so titled said.
OKC - J-dub, Dort, Wallace and Joe averages 47.6 ppg. Holmgren is hurt but if you sub him for Joe they are still only at 54.
Grizzlies is at 54.5
Mavs around 57
Wolves at 50.5
GSW at around 45

Spurs are actually at 55.5. That’s with their number 2 injured for most of the season and number 3 (or 4 with sochan) injured for large parts of the season.

[Pauleta14]

I just don’t think winning is a priority at this time.

Winning is a mindset that needs to be worked on as much if not more than skillsets. Players lose this mentality if you tank too much, they become more cynical, focusing on doing their thing to get their bags.

They will say what they're supposed to and act/pretend as they're supposed to but inside they won't gaf.

Too many signs and body languages I hate about this roster, even among some of Spurs favorites (seen as part of the future smh) like Sochan Champ or Tre. I put Vassell aside bc he knows himself very well he's made of glass and won't ever be a reliable player imo.

Now you add a rookie coach who's learning the job on the fly and never coached human beings :lol

The copping mechanism of Spurs fans always finding excuses will always impress me (no offense)

[TXstbobcat]

Hawks 7.5 point dogs to the Knicks in the nba cup game tonight. Seems like a good chance at a Hawks loss

[Mitch Cumsteen]

Hawks 7.5 point dogs to the Knicks in the nba cup game tonight. Seems like a good chance at a Hawks loss

Or, the way things have been going, they will drill the Knicks by 20.

[BatManu20]

Hawks just went on a 27-8 run in the 3rd to erase a 10-point halftime deficit. Now up double-digits over the Knicks late in the 4th.

Edit*: Hawks won :lol

[onechance87]

fck u atl

[ginobilized]

The Hawks have some nice pieces, hadn't watched them yet this season.
The rumors of their demise have been greatly exaggerated, damn!

[TekXX]

Wright made a bad bet.

[TXstbobcat]

Jesus Christ I give up. Just award the hawks the Larry O’Brien trophy and give the spurs the #30 pick in the draft lol

[Mitch Cumsteen]

They are just the most frustrating team. They lose games to the Wiz, Bulls, Blazers, Pistons... and then beat the Cavs, Celtics, Knicks and Bucks. Get drilled by 30 by Denver at home one night? No problem, just work over the Knicks in the garden in a cup game the next. It makes zero sense.

[cutewizard]

Spurs Head Office will come up with something........

[spursparker9]

:lol

I think they can pull another 2021 playoffs and advance to ECF only to lose to Boston

[BatManu20]

The most annoying part is they're actually playing good defense as a unit this season. They're currently ranked 9th in the NBA in Team Defense. So even if they have an off-night offensively, they're usually kept in games because they can lock down defensively on the other end. We saw that tonight after their slow start in the first half. They really locked in and started reeling off consecutive stops during their 28-7 run. Quin has those young guys playing hard and playing well.

[mudyez]

Wright made a bad bet.

If you mean the Murray trade, NO as it got us Wemby, even though we couldn't be sure about that.

If you mean holding onto the picks in potential trades (Markkanen) you may have a point, but I still like where we are, as it netted us other stuff (Barnes, Picks, ...).

And hell, at this point we can be sure that the pick won't land us Flagg, Traore and so on, but who knows...maybe a player being picked at #21 is something special as well. It's not that we are desperately searching for our Star player like most teams.

[quentin_compson]

Man, that was a wild and fun game between the Hawks and the Knicks. Implications for the draft pick aside, I have to admit I actually like watching the Hawks right now. Jalen Johnson and Dyson Daniels are flat out balling, and they somehow are good enough defensively that they can win despite not being red hot on offense. Risacher didn't do much in the game against the Knicks, but overall, he will probably at least become a good role player - not his fault he was the first pick in a weak draft.

[Splits]

Huck the Fawks

[spursparker9]

Wright made a bad bet.

Tbh it is out of Wright's control.

Somehow Hawks got lucky and choose Trae over Murray and hence eliminated their chemistry problem and also added all defensive 1st team Dyson Daniels.

It is just pure luck and Trae finally learnt to be more team orientated rather than chucking up 3s by himself.

[LeBowen]

Two picks and a swap in #15-25 range is fair value for DJ and was the initial assumption of return value because we thought Trae/DJ duo will work out and that they'll be an average playoff team.
Then we thought we hit a jackpot when they crumbled last season, but unfortunately it looks like it wasn't meant to be.

Right now we're sitting at #12 and #16 on tankathon, I think we can move into #7-9 range with those two picks, which would be a good outcome in a strong draft.
I don't think we're picking two rookies unless PATFO really likes someone.

[cd98]

The Spurs have already had amazing luck with the Tim Duncan era and now getting Wemby. Maybe Atlanta finishes as a top 4 seed or maybe they start having injuries. Who knows...but even if the Atlanta pick for next year doesn't turn out, Spurs have still been incredibly lucky. Heck, the number one player for the 2026 draft already said he would like to play for the Spurs.

[scott]

Man, that was a wild and fun game between the Hawks and the Knicks. Implications for the draft pick aside, I have to admit I actually like watching the Hawks right now. Jalen Johnson and Dyson Daniels are flat out balling, and they somehow are good enough defensively that they can win despite not being red hot on offense. Risacher didn't do much in the game against the Knicks, but overall, he will probably at least become a good role player - not his fault he was the first pick in a weak draft.

I agree - the Hawks have been entertaining to watch. Trae has really changed his game to fit what they are trying to do, and they got huge leaps from Jalen Johnson and Dyson Daniels, and De'Andre Hunter has leveled up as well. Kudos to Quin Snyder for extracting a fun, exciting, winning brand of basketball... and kudos to Landry Fields on recovering from his predecessor's mistakes (DJM, John Collins contract, etc). Honestly... Fields is probably deserving of some Executive of the Year consideration.

It will be curious to see if they become buyers now that they have a pretty clear path to the playoffs. As of today they are tied for the 5th seed and 3 games up on the 8th seed. The Pacers, Sixers and maybe Pistons will all be looking to move up and compete for the playoffs, but everyone else behind them should be tanking (with the Nets and Bulls as the only question marks). They could probably use a little more depth, but their core rotation is pretty solid.

[scott]

Also... wouldn't by any means say Wright made a bad bet. This is how things go when you trade for far out picks. There is a high degree of uncertainty and picks are more likely to NOT be high picks than they are to convey where you might hope. If you think otherwise, you're just delusional (let this be a warning for anyone assuming on MIN31 will be better than #8).

But at the end of the day, the DJM trade accomplished its mission: it allowed us to tank (getting Wemby was the result of that, but the objective of trading Murray was to tank, and that objective was accomplished) and it returned a return that everyone generally agreed was good.

I agree with mudyez that the only potential criticism would be to say that Wright should have had some additional foresight to see this coming and be more aggressive at using those picks for some other purpose. However, he may very well have his eyes on some prospects in that draft range, we don't know. BUT... if he ends up punting the ATL pick to 20132, that's going to be frustrating as fuck and signal that this dude doesn't have a plan on how to best utilize these assets.

[Sugus]

:lol people jumping the gun at every opportunity.

We own the Hawks' picks for the next three years.

They are 14-12 in the first of those three years. Barely above .500. The NBA is a terribly unpredictable league... Hold your horses.

Even if we picked #20 this season with their pick, worst-case scenario, it still tells us nothing about next year's pick, and even less about the year after that.

[BackHome]

Hopefully we can get a future starter at SF with our first pick and then use Atlanta pick to get a good backup for PG/PF/C

[onechance87]

:lol people jumping the gun at every opportunity.

We own the Hawks' picks for the next three years.

They are 14-12 in the first of those three years. Barely above .500. The NBA is a terribly unpredictable league... Hold your horses.

Even if we picked #20 this season with their pick, worst-case scenario, it still tells us nothing about next year's pick, and even less about the year after that.

Yea bro...But atl looking like conterders in the east since the other east teams all of a sudden got bad at the worst time for us.Making those
picks lose alot of value the next years we own them.

[BackHome]

I believe next year we have a pick swap with Atlanta not a pick so unless something major happens I am assuming will just keep our pick next year. Yes, a lot of things can happen as someone mentioned teams can go to wining to loosing in a blink of an eye so will see.

[Dex]

Yea bro...But atl looking like conterders in the east since the other east teams all of a sudden got bad at the worst time for us.Making those
picks lose alot of value the next years we own them.

Atlanta is definitely not contenders :lmao

They are having a little hot spurt to start the season, just like a bunch of crappy teams do every year. Same thing happened with Indiana last year.

Spurs are only 1 game back on Atlanta overall in the league, and we sure as hell aren't contenders. :lol

They will regress to the mean eventually, and are just lucky they play in the East. They would still get wiped out by Boston, Milwaukee, or even Cleveland in a 7-game series

[CGD]

Hopefully we can get a future starter at SF with our first pick and then use Atlanta pick to get a good backup for PG/PF/C

This is probably how it plays out. It’s not the worst thing to have a mid-teens pick to find a specialist or project. For example, who is an Yves Missi type this coming draft?

[spursparker9]

:lol people jumping the gun at every opportunity.

We own the Hawks' picks for the next three years.

They are 14-12 in the first of those three years. Barely above .500. The NBA is a terribly unpredictable league... Hold your horses.

Even if we picked #20 this season with their pick, worst-case scenario, it still tells us nothing about next year's pick, and even less about the year after that.

But this upcoming draft is a very strong draft. Hence, would be optimal if we can get a high pick via hawks

[CGD]

But this upcoming draft is a very strong draft. Hence, would be optimal if we can get a high pick via hawks

I know it’s the talking point, but after the Top 3 are we sure it is that much better than any other draft?

[RC_Drunkford]

I know it’s the talking point, but after the Top 3 are we sure it is that much better than any other draft?

yes

[The Truth #6]

Not a bad trade. However, we all got too excited assuming Atlanta would bottom out. Regardless, I'm glad Dejounte is off the team AND we get some compensation for it.

[thOOdee]

The Spurs have already had amazing luck with the Tim Duncan era and now getting Wemby. Maybe Atlanta finishes as a top 4 seed or maybe they start having injuries. Who knows...but even if the Atlanta pick for next year doesn't turn out, Spurs have still been incredibly lucky. Heck, the number one player for the 2026 draft already said he would like to play for the Spurs.

I would also throw in the silver lining of Hawks jumping to the No 1 spot in the draft last year. W/o that spurs may have ended up with a better pick and possibly missing out on castle.

[Kevin]

Trae Young led Hawks team playing in the dog water Eastern Conference are a perennial playoff team. Have been since his second season for the most part. Young cost controlled core with room to grow. They have the Lakers pick unprotected first this year plus the Kings pick top 12 protected. They're in good shape.

[Ice009]

Atlanta is definitely not contenders :lmao

They are having a little hot spurt to start the season, just like a bunch of crappy teams do every year. Same thing happened with Indiana last year.

Spurs are only 1 game back on Atlanta overall in the league, and we sure as hell aren't contenders. :lol

They will regress to the mean eventually, and are just lucky they play in the East. They would still get wiped out by Boston, Milwaukee, or even Cleveland in a 7-game series

Even though the Spurs record isn't so far off, Atlanta have beaten some really good teams. I hate seeing them win due to the draft pick, but I give them props for some of their wins. Qunn Snider seems to be doing a really good job there (I can't actually remember, but did he takeover during the season last season?).

[spursparker9]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VC6Z15Fm7es

[spursistan]

1867103213700178123

We better beat those pricks next week :lol..Such a wonky and unpredicable team. Their performance will stabilize but sadly they have already put too many impressive wins on board to negatively affect the outcome of that draft pick..

[Strategic]

Snider has the Hawks playing D. I wonder what he could do if he actually had some talent to work with?

[BatManu20]

Bucks win a tight one. About time tbh. ATL is legit though. They play good team ball and really compete on the defensive end. Wonder if there’s any way Spurs could poach Snyder from ATL in a year or two tbh.

[BatManu20]

Snider has the Hawks playing D. I wonder what he could do if he actually had some talent to work with?

8th-ranked defense in the league right now. They’re legit. A lot of length and athleticism on that end which helps them hide Trae.

[onechance87]

fck u atl

[BatManu20]

Giannis with a monster 32/14/9 stat line. He and Dame closed that game for the Bucks.

[timtonymanu]

Why can’t Atlanta be more terrible?

[Mr. Body]

Yeah, ATL has a lot of lengthy wings that Snyder has playing great defense. Hides Trae and he's able to rack up assists in their offense. It's working really well.

[CGD]

We just need them to stay in the play-in zone. Anything can happened, especially if Philly decides to make a push or Chicago has a fluky game.

[slick'81]

Spurs future picks not looking so bright

[exstatic]

Spurs future picks not looking so bright

We’re 1/3 of the way through season one of three seasons where Atlanta matters to us. That’s 1/9 of the way to the end, and you know what’s going to happen already? You should definitely buy a lottery ticket today if you have that kind of prescience.

[Jordan Jackson]

Looks like the Hawks have two elite defenders at positions that matter. A semi functional Capella with occasional rim protection helps too.

Every statistical measure says that team should suck. But if they can maintain a top 10 defense they will grind out wins.

They really do look good - fast, athletic, wall off the paint and get out to challenge the perimeter. Play defense like that and you have a chance to win most nights.

They’re building a good defensive foundation and they are fun to watch.

[exstatic]

Looks like the Hawks have two elite defenders at positions that matter. A semi functional Capella with occasional rim protection helps too.

Every statistical measure says that team should suck. But if they can maintain a top 10 defense they will grind out wins.

They really do look good - fast, athletic, wall off the paint and get out to challenge the perimeter. Play defense like that and you have a chance to win most nights.

They’re building a good defensive foundation and they are fun to watch.

I think teams just DGAF about them, but that will change after the ASG. I’m thinking those good teams they snuck upon will give them a trip to the woodshed later in the year.

One of the funny things is that Trae is playing like crap this year, and they’re winning. Last game he shot really well, scored a ton of points, and dished a basket of dimes. They lost.

[Seventyniner]

It's easy to overestimate the Hawks given their record. According to point differential they "should" be 11-16 right now and we wouldn't be nearly so worried about the draft pick.

In other words, the Hawks aren't as good as their record would indicate. Point differential is generally a better predictor of future performance than pure wins and losses.

[CGD]

Why can’t Atlanta be more terrible?

My view is that it has more to do with Philly being complete ass unexpectedly, and Indiana's major hangover after a great season last year. Those two perform as expected, and ATL is firmly in play-in territory. As it is, that is still in play which is all we can hope for at this point.

So basically, its Philly's revenge to making lemonade out of their Champaige and Bassey cuts, lol

[MannyIsGod]

It's easy to overestimate the Hawks given their record. According to point differential they "should" be 11-16 right now and we wouldn't be nearly so worried about the draft pick.

In other words, the Hawks aren't as good as their record would indicate. Point differential is generally a better predictor of future performance than pure wins and losses.

I've said this so many times in this thread and I definitely think its true but they need to start losing at some point or they will overshoot what they "should" be regardless.

[scott]

They’re a fun team with a young core with some crafty Vets (Capela, Bogdan, Matthews, Nance) and a multiple time All-Star.

Not a bad blueprint, tbh. Imagine if the top of the last draft was better when they lucked into the #1 overall pick.

[Kevin]

It's easy to overestimate the Hawks given their record. According to point differential they "should" be 11-16 right now and we wouldn't be nearly so worried about the draft pick.

In other words, the Hawks aren't as good as their record would indicate. Point differential is generally a better predictor of future performance than pure wins and losses.

Hawks have the 17th best record with the 18th best differential. The east being such hot garbage this season and for the foreseeable future is a big problem for those picks.

[exstatic]

Hawks have the 17th best record with the 18th best differential. The east being such hot garbage this season and for the foreseeable future is a big problem for those picks.

They’ve played almost all EC teams so far, and have fluffed their record with those games. When they start playing WC teams in heavy rotation,and the EC teams pay more attention layer in the year, they’ll come back to the mean.

[Kevin]

They’ve played almost all EC teams so far, and have fluffed their record with those games. When they start playing WC teams in heavy rotation,and the EC teams pay more attention layer in the year, they’ll come back to the mean.

Yeah but all the other eastern conference teams will start playing more in the west too now that the in season tournament is done.

[exstatic]

Yeah but all the other eastern conference teams will start playing more in the west too now that the in season tournament is done.

In season tournament is only 4 games of pool play for nearly everyone. Doesn’t come close to explaining ATLs conference disparity so far. I mean in like late Nov/early Dec, they had played one WC team. One.

It’s also not an even distribution of teams in the draft. There is a big clump of WC teams at the bottom of the lottery,and a big clump of EC teams sitting just outside the lottery. ATL is currently sitting at pick #16, but climbing just two spots in the EC puts them at pick #10. That could very easily happen over the last 2/3 of the season.

[Kevin]

In season tournament is only 4 games of pool play for nearly everyone. Doesn’t come close to explaining ATLs conference disparity so far. I mean in like late Nov/early Dec, they had played one WC team. One.

It’s also not an even distribution of teams in the draft. There is a big clump of WC teams at the bottom of the lottery,and a big clump of EC teams sitting just outside the lottery. ATL is currently sitting at pick #16, but climbing just two spots in the EC puts them at pick #10. That could very easily happen over the last 2/3 of the season.

Hawks have played eight games total against the west so far. They've also played the Cavs, Celtic Bucks and Knicks seven times combined. That accounts for about half of their total games played so far. They're schedule stays pretty tough for the next month or so as they travel west. They're schedule isn't bad at all from 1/22 onward filled with lots of eastern conference garbage and mediocrity. If the Hawks can survive the next month or so they should be fine.

[MannyIsGod]

While the Hawks have played one of the easiest schedules so far in the league, the benefit of being in the East is that it doesn't figure to get much more difficult throughout the rest of the season.

https://www.tankathon.com/remaining_schedule_strength

That's the 13th easiest schedule in the league for the rest of the way. They've currently played the 9th easiest schedule so it WILL get harder, but not by much. I don't think Atlanta is a playoff team regardless so I think the Spurs are still in good shape in a deep draft but they are not going to be a bottom 4 team unless they get hit with massive injuries. And even then, with no motivation to tank they will probably not fall apart.

[DPG21920]

That stretch where they won 6 straight during the toughest part of their schedule was such a gut punch. LMAO beating the 1 loss Cavs 2x in a row

[rascal]

That stretch where they won 6 straight during the toughest part of their schedule was such a gut punch. LMAO beating the 1 loss Cavs 2x in a row

Atlanta is likely to get into the playoffs. They have no reason to tank and send the spurs a lottery pick and they have enough talent to pass the tanking teams in the east.

[Sugus]

But this upcoming draft is a very strong draft. Hence, would be optimal if we can get a high pick via hawks

1. Getting a high pick from the Hawks is absolutely still on the table.

2. Nobody knows jack shit about draft strength, as history has repeatedly shown, and next years' and the year after can well end up being better drafts than this one. Having control over their future three years is exactly why panicking halfway into the first one is a bad idea.


Yea bro...But atl looking like conterders in the east since the other east teams all of a sudden got bad at the worst time for us.Making those
picks lose alot of value the next years we own them.

ATL are looking like contenders??? I want some of whatever you're having, man :lol

Roster turnout and change is very high in the NBA. Look at the playoff teams from 2 years ago, and where they are today. Sixers are the obvious example, but plenty of teams implode/degrade over a season or two - hell, the Spurs included.

Having said that, I obviously wish ATL would crash and burn, like everyone else. But people ITT are already jumping to judging the outcome of picks like they've been slotted already, and it's just wrong, no matter what Atlanta's record ends up being.

[onechance87]

1. Getting a high pick from the Hawks is absolutely still on the table.

2. Nobody knows jack shit about draft strength, as history has repeatedly shown, and next years' and the year after can well end up being better drafts than this one. Having control over their future three years is exactly why panicking halfway into the first one is a bad idea.



ATL are looking like contenders??? I want some of whatever you're having, man :lol

Roster turnout and change is very high in the NBA. Look at the playoff teams from 2 years ago, and where they are today. Sixers are the obvious example, but plenty of teams implode/degrade over a season or two - hell, the Spurs included.

Having said that, I obviously wish ATL would crash and burn, like everyone else. But people ITT are already jumping to judging the outcome of picks like they've been slotted already, and it's just wrong, no matter what Atlanta's record ends up being.

Yea man....Atl proved they can beat anybody in the east.I would say that is a team that can contend in the playoffs.A young team
playing pretty good with talent.The future looks great for them.

[John B]

Yea man....Atl proved they can beat anybody in the east.I would say that is a team that can contend in the playoffs.A young team
playing pretty good with talent.The future looks great for them.

Atlanta is overachieving right now and blindsiding underestimating teams. I doubt they be successful in a 7 game series. Just the same, I don’t wish them well and get a higher return on our 2025 FRP with them.

[Sugus]

Yea man....Atl proved they can beat anybody in the east.I would say that is a team that can contend in the playoffs.A young team
playing pretty good with talent.The future looks great for them.

Agree to disagree I guess. I don't trust Trae Young in the playoffs at all.

I think Castle would lock him up over a 7 game series, nevermind an actually playoff-worthy team. And the rest of the team is not all that, either... Impressive wins, yes, but bad losses too.

We'll see what they're made of after the ASB.

[ismael-robert]

Need to Zaza their guys when we play them

[DAF86]

EzWNBmjyv7Y?si=-TM6lIpFDdjPjY3m

[Maddog]

1. Getting a high pick from the Hawks is absolutely still on the table.

2. Nobody knows jack shit about draft strength, as history has repeatedly shown, and next years' and the year after can well end up being better drafts than this one. Having control over their future three years is exactly why panicking halfway into the first one is a bad idea.



ATL are looking like contenders??? I want some of whatever you're having, man :lol

Roster turnout and change is very high in the NBA. Look at the playoff teams from 2 years ago, and where they are today. Sixers are the obvious example, but plenty of teams implode/degrade over a season or two - hell, the Spurs included.

Having said that, I obviously wish ATL would crash and burn, like everyone else. But people ITT are already jumping to judging the outcome of picks like they've been slotted already, and it's just wrong, no matter what Atlanta's record ends up being.

Couldn't agree more.
All these future picks are calculated gambles but IMHO well worth. The draft is always a crap shoot and you never know what next year brings.
For instance- an injury with Atlanta and they go from .500 to much lower pretty quickly.
Also what if Atlanta towards the end of this year or next decides they're on a treadmill (which they are) and blows it up- starts trading for future picks?
Next years swap and following unconditional looks really good.

[John B]

In the meantime, CHI is on a 3-game winning streak beating the Celtics last night behind Lavine’s 36 pts, and currently conveying CHI 2025 pick.

[onechance87]

In the meantime, CHI is on a 3-game winning streak beating the Celtics last night behind Lavine’s 36 pts, and currently conveying CHI 2025 pick.

man hope they dont start making trades to tank.

[exstatic]

man hope they dont start making trades to tank.

None wants their $30-40M chronically injured or washed players.

[Atl Spur]

None wants their $30-40M chronically injured or washed players.

I’m pretty sure teams may want a few of their players.

[exstatic]

I’m pretty sure teams may want a few of their players.

I’m pretty sure no one wants a rickety Zach Lavine and his $90M+ over the next two seasons or a 34 YO Euro center who can’t defend at the rim or in space making $30M.

One thing that many fans haven’t yet processed is how risk averse teams will become with the second apron. You just cannot afford to make a mistake on a Lavine coming to your team and missing a season or season and a half. It will set your program back years.

[The Truth #6]

It's true. I'm sure the FO is happy to have manageable contracts and wait to see how the young guys develop a little longer.

[Kevin]

I’m pretty sure no one wants a rickety Zach Lavine and his $90M+ over the next two seasons or a 34 YO Euro center who can’t defend at the rim or in space making $30M.

One thing that many fans haven’t yet processed is how risk averse teams will become with the second apron. You just cannot afford to make a mistake on a Lavine coming to your team and missing a season or season and a half. It will set your program back years.

Vecevic is have a career season so far averaging nearly 20/10 while shooting 59%. He's making 20M per season not 30M. His deal us up next season so its short and team friendly for his age (34). Bulls should get a Jak level haul for him. He's a very nice piece. Bulls should trade Ball for a matching expiring plus seconds. They might be able to get out of the LaVine deal this summer as the market continues to reel in his contract.

[Mitch Cumsteen]

Vecevic is have a career season so far averaging nearly 20/10 while shooting 59%. He's making 20M per season not 30M. His deal us up next season so its short and team friendly for his age (34). Bulls should get a Jak level haul for him. He's a very nice piece. Bulls should trade Ball for a matching expiring plus seconds. They might be able to get out of the LaVine deal this summer as the market continues to reel in his contract.

You are acting like the Bulls front office is competent. These are the same bozos who could have made the Derozan trade without involving the Spurs at all and got that unprotected Sacramento swap for themselves, but were too inept and short sighted to make it happen. If there is one thing we can count on, it's the Bulls front office screwing up their roster. These idiots can't even tank correctly.

[Kevin]

You are acting like the Bulls front office is competent. These are the same bozos who could have made the Derozan trade without involving the Spurs at all and got that unprotected Sacramento swap for themselves, but were too inept and short sighted to make it happen. If there is one thing we can count on, it's the Bulls front office screwing up their roster. These idiots can't even tank correctly.

Nah Bulls are getting ready to tank as they should. The DDR pick wont convey if they do.

[exstatic]

Vecevic is have a career season so far averaging nearly 20/10 while shooting 59%. He's making 20M per season not 30M. His deal us up next season so its short and team friendly for his age (34). Bulls should get a Jak level haul for him. He's a very nice piece. Bulls should trade Ball for a matching expiring plus seconds. They might be able to get out of the LaVine deal this summer as the market continues to reel in his contract.

You’re correct on the dollars. I’m correct on the fact that he can neither defend the rim,nor defend in space. Very few teams, or none, will want a 34YO one way player, no matter what his counting stats are.

I do think they’ll be able to offload him next summer as an ending contract, but I think they’re stuck with Lavine.

[Mitch Cumsteen]

Nah Bulls are getting ready to tank as they should. The DDR pick wont convey if they do.

For sure that's what they should do, but if they are sniffing around the play-in near the deadline, their front office is so cheap that they might just go with the cash grab of a playoff game instead of what's best for the franchise long term.

[Kevin]

You’re correct on the dollars. I’m correct on the fact that he can neither defend the rim,nor defend in space. Very few teams, or none, will want a 34YO one way player, no matter what his counting stats are.

I do think they’ll be able to offload him next summer as an ending contract, but I think they’re stuck with Lavine.

Lots of teams could use a scoring C at the deadline. Golden State, Lakers, Grizzles, Mavs all make sense to varying degrees. Plus he's career 34% 3 point shooter so he can space the floor on offense. Despite poor defense his ORTG is almost 15 points higher than his DRTG.

[Kevin]

For sure that's what they should do, but if they are sniffing around the play-in near the deadline, their front office is so cheap that they might just go with the cash grab of a playoff game instead of what's best for the franchise long term.

Wishful thinking on your part. Bulls FO isn't that bad they just got very unlucky with the LaVine injury/contract and ended up stuck in the mud. The Lauri deal was bad but nobody saw that breakout coming.

Lots of smoke that the Bulls are getting ready to blow it up as they should and will. Bulls will blow it up and tank for Flagg.

[Mugen]

Lavine is having one of his best seasons in years. He'll have value on the trade market tbh.

Bulls will absolutely start tanking soon, one way or another tbh.

[CGD]

Lavine is having one of his best seasons in years. He'll have value on the trade market tbh.

Bulls will absolutely start tanking soon, one way or another tbh.

I agree but i still struggle to see the team that is a Zach Levine away from deep playoff run. I’m not convinced a Porter-Levine swap addresses DEN’s needs (Porter is important to what they do, Murray is the issue) and not clear the Lakers blow their precious picks for him.

[spursistan]

Lavine is having one of his best seasons in years. He'll have value on the trade market tbh.

Bulls will absolutely start tanking soon, one way or another tbh.
Really hope the Bulls get fooled again by mediocrity and end up playing hardball with Lavine at the deadline. Playin is there for the taking in The East :lol

If we miraculously get their pick, Spurs probably have 3 picks in the 11-15 range. At that point you package 2 of them to get in top 7-9 draft for a hopefully nice future piece. I actually think it makes sense to do that with the coming Atlanta pick anyway..

[exstatic]

Lavine is having one of his best seasons in years. He'll have value on the trade market tbh.

Bulls will absolutely start tanking soon, one way or another tbh.

Lavine has a TERRIBLE injury history, and makes over $90M AFTER this season.

Basketball ability is only one factor in a trade. You also have to consider age, injury history and contract. The last three are all negatives. The last two are prohibitive negatives.

[Kevin]

LaVine is averaging 22/4/4 with 50/43/80 shooting splits. If he can stay healthy this season they should have no problem trading him this summer with only two years left on his deal.

[exstatic]

LaVine is averaging 22/4/4 with 50/43/80 shooting splits. If he can stay healthy this season they should have no problem trading him this summer with only two years left on his deal.

It’s not just about this season. Since his second year, he’s played 70+games one time. Once. He’s had seasons of 47, 25, and 24 games played. The 25 game season was LAST YEAR. He’s a fucking china doll making a shit ton of money and there isn’t going to be a huge market for him.

[Kevin]

It’s not just about this season. Since his second year, he’s played 70+games one time. Once. He’s had seasons of 47, 25, and 24 games played. The 25 game season was LAST YEAR. He’s a fucking china doll making a shit ton of money and there isn’t going to be a huge market for him.

If they trade Ball and Vuch by this years deadline that pick won’t convey because the tank is on at that point.

Still think LaVine becomes movable thus summer if stays healthy this season. Only having two years left on his deal means Chicago would require matching salary for the first year. So whoever trades for him is really only adding one year worth of salary if you think about it.

[MannyIsGod]

Lavine has a TERRIBLE injury history, and makes over $90M AFTER this season.

Basketball ability is only one factor in a trade. You also have to consider age, injury history and contract. The last three are all negatives. The last two are prohibitive negatives.

Why are you acting like teams don't take risks in trades? Maybe he's not trading, but you're acting like there's no way on earth a team would trade for him which is just obviously false.

[exstatic]

Why are you acting like teams don't take risks in trades? Maybe he's not trading, but you're acting like there's no way on earth a team would trade for him which is just obviously false.

It’s a new 2nd apron day. I agree in the past teams took risks like this, but one dud, one Lavine missing significant time or a season can set your team back a couple years.

Say you’re a first apron team, and you trade for him. Then he misses a large chunk of time. You can't replace him with one player, because that would put you over the second apron. You can’t replace him in the aggregate for the same reason. You’re screwed.

[Strategic]

Morant and Smart are both GTD for tomorrow’s game. Be nice if the Grizzlies can shit on Trae.

[Raven]

If they trade Ball and Vuch by this years deadline that pick won’t convey because the tank is on at that point.

Still think LaVine becomes movable thus summer if stays healthy this season. Only having two years left on his deal means Chicago would require matching salary for the first year. So whoever trades for him is really only adding one year worth of salary if you think about it.

i wouldn't say that trading ball ignites the tank, i mean the guy shoots 1-10 on a good day

[Strategic]

Ja and Trae out tonight. Griz should win it.

[CGD]

Ja and Trae out tonight. Griz should win it.

Or Atlanta blows them out showing how Trae is a classic Ewing theory guy.

[TXstbobcat]

Huge 1st quarter for Memphis.

[spursistan]

Hawks are down 24 vs Memphis at halftime. Hopefully this is them finally regressing to the mean.

[TXstbobcat]

This one turning into an Ike Turner beatdown

[SpursBills]

Memphis' front office is so elite at drafting and finding players it's amazing they don't get the publicity that Boston and OKC does. They just had the misfortune that Ja and JJJ are more limited than other contenders' top 2s. But their list of late round hits and successful reclamation projects that turned into solid contributors over the years is so ridiculous - Bane, Brandon Clarke, Aldama, Jalen Wells, Scottie Pippen Jr, Vince Williams Jr, LaRavia, Xavier Tillman, probably Cam Spencer. If only they had a Wemby/Ja duo or some other truly top end talent, they'd probably run a train on the rest of the league in the second apron era for the next decade. Really goes to show the power of analytics when combined with traditional scouting. Also, Taylor Jenkins is a great coach.

[MackAttack003]

Trae out tonight because of Castle's "inadvertent" Zaza moment last game?

[spursistan]

Hawks are down 24 vs Memphis at halftime. Hopefully this is them finally regressing to the mean.
Got blown out :tu

[timtonymanu]

Too bad the East is still so dogshit

[spursistan]

Too bad the East is still so dogshit
Not to mention they unexpectedly wormed their way to a bunch of quality wins (going 2-0 vs the 25-4 Cavs :lol). hopefully their performance is now stabilizing like the fringe play-in team they are. Expecting both Philly & Indiana to eventually jump them in the standings. But realistically this is going to be a pick in the 10-15 range unless they get decimated by injuries

[spurraider21]

Or Atlanta blows them out showing how Trae is a classic Ewing theory guy.
lmao

[spursparker9]

:lol They beat young Jordan and the T-wolves today.

Fuck.

[onechance87]

fck off atl

[Blizzardwizard]

Never really understood why people were so protective over these picks and adamant they shouldn't be packaged in a trade.


For as long as Atlanta had Trae Young in a piss-weak conference they were never going to be that valuable. If you can convince Sacramento to take a couple of them at the deadline or in the offseason then PATFO shouldn't hesitate.

[100%duncan]

:lol They beat young Jordan and the T-wolves today.

Fuck.

And yet we keep overvaluing these picks. Fucking mid team

[SpursBills]

Wrong thread

[heyheymymy]

ATL CHI tonight 630 CST

GO BULLS!!

bulls-hawks (https://www.espn.com/nba/game/_/gameId/401704979/bulls-hawks)

[Bruno]

The good news for Spurs is that both Pacers and Sixers have been way better lately and will fight Hawks for a playoff spot.

Right now, there are 4 teams (Sixers, Pacers, Heat and Hawks) that will likely fight for the last 3 playoffs spots in the east. A key point of this battlle will be what will happen with Jimmy Butler.

Detroit deserves some credit to have kept playing despite their bad start. They're the only NBA team with cap space, so maybe they can improve at the trade deadline instead of just using this space to collect second round picks.

[Mr. Body]

The good news for Spurs is that both Pacers and Sixers have been way better lately and will fight Hawks for a playoff spot.

Right now, there are 4 teams (Sixers, Pacers, Heat and Hawks) that will likely fight for the last 3 playoffs spots in the east. A key point of this battlle will be what will happen with Jimmy Butler.

Detroit deserves some credit to have kept playing despite their bad start. They're the only NBA team with cap space, so maybe they can improve at the trade deadline instead of just using this space to collect second round picks.

Detroit really should be commended for their start. They were considered doormats but they're winning games. As opposed to, say, Charlotte, who are just dogshit.

Atlanta still has a -2.6 point differential and it feels like they're playing over their heads a little bit. They're in good shape overall, but a lot of games to be played. Too bad they have a good coach.

[scott]

Best case scenario for us might be for the Hawks to land in that 10th seed and have to run through IND and PHI in order to avoid the lottery. As it currently stands, the 10 seed in the EC would net us the 9th best lotto odds.

[heyheymymy]

That's why I didn't mind Spurs loss to the Sixers. They seem to be showing a pulse now, won yesterday in BOS too.

If MIA can hold, IND is about to slip past ATL, and PHI pull up big time and overtake that would help sink ATL. CHI DET BKN all poised right underneath as well and if even 1 can unexpectedly press ATL or even sit close underneath in case ATL falls out things could turn around on this front.

Also, lol Embaad imo tbh

[spursparker9]

:lol Hawks just went on a 20+ runs to lead Bulls now.

Fuck

[onechance87]

fck u atl

[Em-City]

Just turrrible

[BackHome]

Bulls ain’t given up that 10th slot

[onechance87]

Bulls ain’t given up that 10th slot

yea and it seems detroit and nets trying to go for the play in lol...Not good for us

[spursistan]

Absolutely hate how the Hawks fell ass backwards into a decent team with that Pelicans trade. Snyder is too good to let them bottom dwell in the East with those pieces, and that changes the outlook for their picks as far as the Spurs are concerned. I think you'll see PATFO more willing to package them in trades as soon as next offseason..

[CGD]

Again, we just need them to be in the play-in tournament and lose. Think about it this way: they could end up 10th, earn a playoff spot, and STILL fall out of the lottery. Or they can land at 7, lose, and be in the lotto. Anything can happen.

We want the same of Chicago but in reverse.

[exstatic]

Again, we just need them to be in the play-in tournament and lose. Think about it this way: they could end up 10th, earn a playoff spot, and STILL fall out of the lottery. Or they can land at 7, lose, and be in the lotto. Anything can happen.

We want the same of Chicago but in reverse.

I think that #8 has been knocked out before, but I don’t think #7 ever has. They have the easiest path, needing to beat one of two teams ranked lower than them. Both games would be at home.

[scott]

I think that #8 has been knocked out before, but I don’t think #7 ever has. They have the easiest path, needing to beat one of two teams ranked lower than them. Both games would be at home.

If the Sixers and Pacers end up in the play-in, that will be the best case for us, because no matter Atlanta's seed those will be very difficult games. I actually think Philly will eventually find their way to the #6 seed though, MIA could be poised for a drop.

[MannyIsGod]

Fucks sake man I guess I'm starting to believe the Hawks are actually a playoff team. On one hand, it feels vindicating considering how much people shat on Young in here as if he was just shit that couldn't be on a winning team despite having already taken a team to the ECF, but it is also frustrating the rumors that Snyder was Pop's replacement never actually turned out to be true. And of course, losing draft placement sucks.

The consensus - and I agreed completely - was that NOLA made a good trade but man it looks more and more like they just wasted Dyson Daniels.

[spurraider21]

DeAndre Hunter scoring 20ppg on 49/44/90 splits off the bench is not something i saw coming :lol

[LeBowen]

DeAndre Hunter scoring 20ppg on 49/44/90 splits off the bench is not something i saw coming :lol

I'd say give them one of their picks back for Hunter, but no way after his incident with Wemby. :rollin

I remember his draft comp being 2014 version of nephew. He obviously never got there defensively, but is still solid enough on that end.

Hawks are in a solid situation overall. Daniels, Johnson, Risacher will all develop, they're getting out of Capela's contract in the summer, enough for Johnson's extension kicking in.
They just need to find a solid big or hope Okongwu develops and they're good to go if we're talking parennial first/second round exit in the East, which their ownership surely doesn't mind.

If I was in charge over there, I'd try to find a third team to swing a Poeltl-Bogdanovic trade. Jakob would be perfect for Trae and their shooters.

[scott]

I'd say give them one of their picks back for Hunter, but no way after his incident with Wemby. :rollin

I remember his draft comp being 2014 version of nephew. He obviously never got there defensively, but is still solid enough on that end.

Hawks are in a solid situation overall. Daniels, Johnson, Risacher will all develop, they're getting out of Capela's contract in the summer, enough for Johnson's extension kicking in.
They just need to find a solid big or hope Okongwu develops and they're good to go if we're talking parennial first/second round exit in the East, which their ownership surely doesn't mind.

If I was in charge over there, I'd try to find a third team to swing a Poeltl-Bogdanovic trade. Jakob would be perfect for Trae and their shooters.

They also have incoming FRPs from LAL and SAC (protected 1-12 this year). That SAC pick owed to ATL actually plays into the Fox discussion... right now SAC is sitting in the 9th lotto seed, but they're playing better than their 13-18 record would indicate (as detailed in the Fox thread). Scrapping and clawing their way to the 13th or 14th lotto seed doesn't do them any good.

[exstatic]

I'd say give them one of their picks back for Hunter, but no way after his incident with Wemby. :rollin

I remember his draft comp being 2014 version of nephew. He obviously never got there defensively, but is still solid enough on that end.

Hawks are in a solid situation overall. Daniels, Johnson, Risacher will all develop, they're getting out of Capela's contract in the summer, enough for Johnson's extension kicking in.
They just need to find a solid big or hope Okongwu develops and they're good to go if we're talking parennial first/second round exit in the East, which their ownership surely doesn't mind.

If I was in charge over there, I'd try to find a third team to swing a Poeltl-Bogdanovic trade. Jakob would be perfect for Trae and their shooters.

Daniels and Johnson have already had their year 3 bump, and are pretty much what they’re going to be. Their ownership has continually strip mined their roster by refusing to pay even the basic luxury tax, let alone get into either apron territory. That will destroy their roster in the very near future.

[LeBowen]

Daniels and Johnson have already had their year 3 bump, and are pretty much what they’re going to be. Their ownership has continually strip mined their roster by refusing to pay even the basic luxury tax, let alone get into either apron territory. That will destroy their roster in the very near future.

I never buy into takes that every player's development trajectory is linear.
Johnson tripled his output last season and noticably improved again this year.
Daniels just got there and as mediocre as the Hawks are as an organization, they're still better than Pelicans and I'm sure he'll improve his shot.

Tax point stands, that's why I said the ownership will be content with treadmilling as long as they make the playoffs.
Trae is a highlight player, he'll always sell tickets.

[exstatic]

I never buy into takes that every player's development trajectory is linear.
Johnson tripled his output last season and noticably improved again this year.
Daniels just got there and as mediocre as the Hawks are as an organization, they're still better than Pelicans and I'm sure he'll improve his shot.

Tax point stands, that's why I said the ownership will be content with treadmilling as long as they make the playoffs.
Trae is a highlight player, he'll always sell tickets.

There is a development trajectory that stands for probably 90% of NBA players,and that is that there’s a window of just a few years, provably three maybe four, where your development happens, then plateaus. If you miss that window, you either bust, or don’t reach your potential.


Johnson had nowhere to go BUT up, since his first two years were dog shit. Tripling garbage numbers isn’t a high bar to clear.

I always watch what a drafting team does, and if they decide to cut a player loose, there’s probably a reason. Daniels increased counting stats, other than his gaudy and impressive steals, are a function of increased minutes and shots. He hasn’t increased his efficiency in any meaningful way, he’s just putting up more shots. It’s like when SA just gave Keldon a ton more shots, and suddenly he’s a 20 ppg scorer. New Orleans probably saw that Dyson could score more, but didn’t think his shots were worth increasing, since they already have other volume scorers like BI that aren’t super efficient, either.

[scott]

There is a development trajectory that stands for probably 90% of NBA players,and that is that there’s a window of just a few years, provably three maybe four, where your development happens, then plateaus. If you miss that window, you either bust, or don’t reach your potential.




Curious as to your thoughts on Devin Vassell. Where are you at on him?

[scott]

There is a development trajectory that stands for probably 90% of NBA players,and that is that there’s a window of just a few years, provably three maybe four, where your development happens, then plateaus. If you miss that window, you either bust, or don’t reach your potential.




Curious as to your thoughts on Devin Vassell. Where are you at on him?

[exstatic]

Curious as to your thoughts on Devin Vassell. Where are you at on him?

Disappointed.

[BackHome]

I told you it’s his foot injury. :)

[LeBowen]

Johnson had nowhere to go BUT up, since his first two years were dog shit. Tripling garbage numbers isn’t a high bar to clear.

Improving his numbers from first two seasons isn't a high bar, but tripling them most definitely was.
Most importantly, he expanded his game this season. 5.5 assists for a 6'9 forward who looked like a bust is great.


I always watch what a drafting team does, and if they decide to cut a player loose, there’s probably a reason. Daniels increased counting stats, other than his gaudy and impressive steals, are a function of increased minutes and shots. He hasn’t increased his efficiency in any meaningful way, he’s just putting up more shots.

A good defender doesn't really have to increase his efficency if it's already solid enough. His FG% is fine, he just needs to go up by like 5% on 3pts if he's to get a big bag later on.


It’s like when SA just gave Keldon a ton more shots, and suddenly he’s a 20 ppg scorer. New Orleans probably saw that Dyson could score more, but didn’t think his shots were worth increasing, since they already have other volume scorers like BI that aren’t super efficient, either.

New Orleans, a team well known for making the right decisions.

[exstatic]

Improving his numbers from first two seasons isn't a high bar, but tripling them most definitely was.
Most importantly, he expanded his game this season. 5.5 assists for a 6'9 forward who looked like a bust is great.



A good defender doesn't really have to increase his efficency if it's already solid enough. His FG% is fine, he just needs to go up by like 5% on 3pts if he's to get a big bag later on.



New Orleans, a team well known for making the right decisions.

They’ve actually made a number of very good ones like Herb Jones, Trey Murphy, Alvarado, Jordan Hawkins and Missi. Those just get overshadowed by the Zion debacle. They couldn’t not draft him, and I’m guessing that no one in the organization had any idea of his complete lack of work ethic and discipline. He’s literally eating his career away. You can’t even call him a mistake, just a catastrophic piece of bad luck to draft that Million Dollar talent with a five cent head.

[LeBowen]

They’ve actually made a number of very good ones like Herb Jones, Trey Murphy, Alvarado, Jordan Hawkins and Missi. Those just get overshadowed by the Zion debacle. They couldn’t not draft him, and I’m guessing that no one in the organization had any idea of his complete lack of work ethic and discipline. He’s literally eating his career away. You can’t even call him a mistake, just a catastrophic piece of bad luck to draft that Million Dollar talent with a five cent head.

Their scouting department is obviously great (maybe PATFO can get some of those people), but whoever is in charge of actually running the organization needs to do a better job.
There's always something catastrophic going on there.
Yeah, Zion is a fatass who was probably destined to fail, but they I won't say enabled him in it, but weren't far off from it. He surely wouldn't be at risk of being out of the league if he got drafted by the Heat.

[Sugus]

Again, we just need them to be in the play-in tournament and lose. Think about it this way: they could end up 10th, earn a playoff spot, and STILL fall out of the lottery. Or they can land at 7, lose, and be in the lotto. Anything can happen.

We want the same of Chicago but in reverse.

Exactly. People underestimate the variance of the lottery under the new odds.

We don't really need ATL to bottom out, it'll come down to ping pong balls anyways.

[exstatic]

Their scouting department is obviously great (maybe PATFO can get some of those people), but whoever is in charge of actually running the organization needs to do a better job.
There's always something catastrophic going on there.
Yeah, Zion is a fatass who was probably destined to fail, but they I won't say enabled him in it, but weren't far off from it. He surely wouldn't be at risk of being out of the league if he got drafted by the Heat.

They pulled a rabbit out of their hat by getting him to sign the Max deal with weight/fitness strings attached so they can punch out any time.

It’s tough to give tough love to a player in this day and age. I’m not sure he would have responded to it from Riley or anyone else except to demand a trade by not signing an extension.

[spurraider21]

Daniels and Johnson have already had their year 3 bump, and are pretty much what they’re going to be. Their ownership has continually strip mined their roster by refusing to pay even the basic luxury tax, let alone get into either apron territory. That will destroy their roster in the very near future.
jalen turned 23 like a week ago, while daniels wont even turn 22 until later this season

neither is done improving. and even if johnson doesnt improve any further, he's a 20/10/5.5 guy with plus defense who can also hit 3's

[scott]

jalen turned 23 like a week ago, while daniels wont even turn 22 until later this season

neither is done improving. and even if johnson doesnt improve any further, he's a 20/10/5.5 guy with plus defense who can also hit 3's

You're responding to a guy who thought the Hawks had no way to improve, would be forced to sell Trae for pennies on the dollar, and have no way of avoiding being a bottom dwelling team while owned their picks. Foresight isn't exactly ex's calling card.

[exstatic]

You're responding to a guy who thought the Hawks had no way to improve, would be forced to sell Trae for pennies on the dollar, and have no way of avoiding being a bottom dwelling team while owned their picks. Foresight isn't exactly ex's calling card.

We have three years to see if what I said comes true. Their net rating is pretty negative after 30 games,meaning they aren’t this good, but rather playing way over their heads.

The only thing I was wrong about with Trae is that there wouldn’t even be one team willing to pay pennies on the dollar for a fading no defense chucker.

[objective]

Our Only Begotten Nephew is targeting his return game against the Hawks on the 4th, maybe he'll help the Spurs out

[Strategic]

Butler out and Trae still GTD. Maybe the Heat can do us a solid today.

[BackHome]

Damn Hawks looking like they going into Playoff form

[LeBowen]

Another W for the Hawks.

Johnson with 28/13/5 and 2 blocks.
Hunter with 26/6/2.
They got arguably the best non-star wings in the league, tbh.

Trae with 3-13 FG, 15 assists and only 3 turnovers.

[Dejounte]

Can anyone do the darko comparison between Hunter and Vassell? That graphic is like crack. Also, what % of the cap is Hunter taking up?

[objective]

And their young players only go UP from here: Johnson, Daniels, Risacher

Move those picks NOW and not when they're in the 20s and you're stuck with the next Malaki

[LeBowen]

Can anyone do the darko comparison between Hunter and Vassell? That graphic is like crack. Also, what % of the cap is Hunter taking up?

$21/23/25M up until '27.

Hawks picks are valuable in a trade because whoever gets them can trade for Hunter.
Spurs obviously won't due to his situation with Wemby.

[objective]

Hunter always played best off the bench, that just didn't have the justification of younger legit talent to play as starters so he was forced to start and defend the best players and attack good defenders.

He's now in his best role. Big Brain Mitch might want to put Vassell back there

[LeBowen]

Big Brain Mitch might want to put Vassell back there

Vassell isn't better of the bench, he's just less of a negative for the team.

[heyheymymy]

lol with Our Only Begotten Nephew

[scott]

Can anyone do the darko comparison between Hunter and Vassell? That graphic is like crack. Also, what % of the cap is Hunter taking up?

Hunter also a dogwater defender, just has been better on offense this year, raising his overall effectiveness.

https://i.ibb.co/QJwdd2W/hunter-v-vassell.png

https://i.ibb.co/z8RM859/LEBRONComparison-Screenshot-10.png

[objective]

Back up the 5th seed, 18th pick it draft was held now

Landry flexing

[Strategic]

Anyone thinking the Nuggets can hold off the hawks tonight?

[onechance87]

Anyone thinking the Nuggets can hold off the hawks tonight?

unlikely....nuggets been looking like trash while atl looking like contenders.Hoping atl loses and chi wins tonight tho

[onechance87]

bulls are such trash

[exstatic]

bulls are such trash

lol. Washington doesn’t want this game. They’ll fumble it away, intentionally or unintentionally.

[Mr. Body]

Chicago has a gimme and they get blown out.