Atlanta Hawks 2025 Draft Pick Watch

[TVI]

The rest of the NBA would have a freaking meltdown and scream that it was all fixed.


The ultimate payoff:

https://i.ibb.co/ZRDP56Zk/image.png

[exstatic]

OKC, please don’t rest multiple starters.

[scott]

The ultimate payoff:

https://i.ibb.co/ZRDP56Zk/image.png

Take Flagg.

Trade #2 and Vassell to NOP for TMIII.

We staaaaaaacked.

[CGD]

If Spurs don’t move up and land a top 5 in the lottery I wonder if those picks will be kicked down the road. At least one of them will be in my opinion.

Maybe, but we’re also in a place where specialist would be welcome. So say a McNeeley at 10 or Malauch at 11 would be great there, but either a reach at, say, 6.

[rascal]

Take Flagg.

Trade #2 and Vassell to NOP for TMIII.

We staaaaaaacked.

No way

Take Harper and trade Vassell for a backup center or PF

[spurraider21]

No way

Take Harper and trade Vassell for a backup center or PF

edit: i had misread the post. thanks for clarifying scott

[scott]

first of all, taking harper over flagg is absurd

second, i like harper a lot, but he made a ton more sense pre-fox trade. harper/castle backcourt would have been nice. with that said, id still take Harper #2 because i think he's clearly a tier better of a prospect than Bailey, and i think that gap makes up for the positional preference... but any weird argument to have Harper #1 on the board evaporated when we traded for fox

Sticking up for rascal, I didn't read this as him saying he'd take Harper #1, but instead that he'd take Flagg and Harper and then trade Vassell for a backup C or PF versus my fantasy land scenario where we take Flagg and trade #2 and Vassell for TMIII

[spurraider21]

Sticking up for rascal, I didn't read this as him saying he'd take Harper #1, but instead that he'd take Flagg and Harper and then trade Vassell for a backup C or PF versus my fantasy land scenario where we take Flagg and trade #2 and Vassell for TMIII
you're right, i goofed. edited the comment :tu

also i agree with him. i think trading the harper pick for murphy is an overpay

[spurraider21]

OKC did their job, handing ATL another loss. hopefully miami beats indy

hawks have now lost 5 of 6. upcoming games against memphis/milwaukee/indy/indy before their schedulel ightens up a bit with some cupcakes like philly and charlotte

portland currently smashing brooklyn. if they hold on, portland will tie ATL in the standings. if their hot streak continues they'll soon push ATL down to the 10 slot in the draft

[sfernald]

OKC did their job, handing ATL another loss. hopefully miami beats indy

hawks have now lost 5 of 6. upcoming games against memphis/milwaukee/indy/indy before their schedulel ightens up a bit with some cupcakes like philly and charlotte

portland currently smashing brooklyn. if they hold on, portland will tie ATL in the standings. if their hot streak continues they'll soon push ATL down to the 10 slot in the draft

see Okc not so bad. Doing their job to raise our pick! Unfortunately I don’t think they managed to break their souls with this one.

[spurraider21]

Oh wow bulls with a miracle late comeback. Go Zach Collins go! Bulls surpassing ATL would be a nice surprise

[baseline bum]

Take Flagg.

Trade #2 and Vassell to NOP for TMIII.

We staaaaaaacked.

No way, at least also get the #6 back from NOP in that scenario if Tre Johnson is still on the board. And if not don't make the trade.

[scott]

A good day for the Tank Race for us today.

[rascal]

No way, at least also get the #6 back from NOP in that scenario if Tre Johnson is still on the board. And if not don't make the trade.

This also works

[mystargtr34]

In the words of ice cube today was a (very) good day

[Gandalf]

Oh wow bulls with a miracle late comeback. Go Zach Collins go! Bulls surpassing ATL would be a nice surprise

Why is Collins putting up these stats all of a sudden when he’s on another team?

[tbdog]

Why is Collins putting up these stats all of a sudden when he’s on another team?

Donavan is an actual coach and I believe Bulls management don't mind them winning, rather than just tanking.

[Mal]

playins in the east are very winnable for any team involved. I guess Hawks pick will come to that

[Gandalf]

Donavan is an actual coach and I believe Bulls management don't mind them winning, rather than just tanking.

I wondered if that could be part of it. Sucked when coached by Pop, sucked when coached by Mitch - now, suddenly, not bad when coached by Donavan.

Bad news is that seems to be a pretty damning indictment of Pop and Mitch. Good news is that gives me hope for our other players. What if a new coach could bring a similar turnaround for some or most of them? How good could we actually be if each player had this kind of improvement?

[ginobilized]

Fascinating that the Flipper is doing better in Chicago.
More than Mitch and Pop, I really wonder about the system and principles that are in place in SA. There's something off there for the past decade or so.

[TekXX]

Don't guys usually flourish after they leave the Spurs

[Tailboar]

Fascinating that the Flipper is doing better in Chicago.
More than Mitch and Pop, I really wonder about the system and principles that are in place in SA. There's something off there for the past decade or so.

https://as1.ftcdn.net/v2/jpg/00/24/86/86/1000_F_24868618_c5kQ6wlQ82IDUlu728G5Fo6HAMgE3S0W.j pg

[Jordan Jackson]

There is no pressure in Chicago. There are zero expectations. Basically pickup games at the local Y. The owner literally does not care. Saying this as a former Chicago resident.

[dn0774]

Fascinating that the Flipper is doing better in Chicago.
More than Mitch and Pop, I really wonder about the system and principles that are in place in SA. There's something off there for the past decade or so.

Yea its a worrisome trend. Seeing Brandon Boston on the Pelicans play competent basketball (and torch us 45 days after we cut him) this season has been in my mind. Wright has his work cut out for him this summer, hopefully he is up to the task but I worry Pop will muscle him around and we see the same player (non)development staff/coaches.

Tbf to Wright, usually a GM answers to ownership and that's it. The Spurs hierarchy still has Pop/RC essentially over Wright, yet Wright as GM seemingly answers to the coach which is supposed to be the other way around.

[sfernald]

Yea its a worrisome trend. Seeing Brandon Boston on the Pelicans play competent basketball (and torch us 45 days after we cut him) this season has been in my mind. Wright has his work cut out for him this summer, hopefully he is up to the task but I worry Pop will muscle him around and we see the same player (non)development staff/coaches.

Tbf to Wright, usually a GM answers to ownership and that's it. The Spurs hierarchy still has Pop/RC essentially over Wright, yet Wright as GM seemingly answers to the coach which is supposed to be the other way around.

Let's test the theory to the max and give away Wesley and Branham.....pls

[quentin_compson]

There is no pressure in Chicago. There are zero expectations. Basically pickup games at the local Y. The owner literally does not care. Saying this as a former Chicago resident.

Don't the Bulls always at least want to make the play-in over the last couple of years? Seems like more pressure than when you are with the Spurs to me ...

[exstatic]

Don't the Bulls always at least want to make the play-in over the last couple of years? Seems like more pressure than when you are with the Spurs to me ...

They finally started dumping players, although they waited too long to offload Lavine.

[quentin_compson]

Yeah, but they still aren't in tanking mode. They always seem to go for a chance of making the playoffs, no matter how "sensible" that might be,

[TXstbobcat]

Hawks at Memphis tonight. Ja Morant is a gametime decision per espn

[Mal]

There is no team that could push Hawks out of play-ins. They just need to lose one time there, to Spurs have another lotto ticket.

[exstatic]

There is no team that could push Hawks out of play-ins. They just need to lose one time there, to Spurs have another lotto ticket.

Right. Just need to make sure they’re 9 or 10, so they have to win twice.

[rascal]

There is no team that could push Hawks out of play-ins. They just need to lose one time there, to Spurs have another lotto ticket.

Still want that pick to be as high as possible if they get knocked out of the playoffs.

[rascal]

Hawks at Memphis tonight. Ja Morant is a gametime decision per espn

Memphis didn't look very good against the Spurs. Need Morant to play tonight.

[Mal]

Still want that pick to be as high as possible if they get knocked out of the playoffs.

We need them to be 9-10 and lose first game. Rest is up to hot ping pong balls

[mystargtr34]

Bane was out against Spurs he’s just as important as Morant.

Hopefully they both play tonight vs Hawks.

[exstatic]

Regardless of who plays, us beating Memphis has to sting, and I think they won’t be anxious to lose to a second consecutive lottery team.

[BackHome]

Yeah, I am really hoping that we can slide to 8th spot and Hawks will fall to 9th or 10th..

[Knoxxx]

Just pulled #1 pick with ATL and #2 pick with SAS first try!

[SpursBills]

JJJ likely out for the rest of the Grizzlies game, damn

[spurraider21]

JJJ played less than 2 minutes. Morant didnt suit up.

grizzlies still up 11 midway through the 4th

[TXstbobcat]

with Portland winning would be nice night for the tank if Memphis can hang on in the 4th.

[onechance87]

fck u atl

[spursistan]

LeVert at the buzzer off a MEM turnover :pctoss

Grizzlies are forever a cute little regular season team. Guess we knew thar..

[mystargtr34]

Scrub ass Grizzlies and lucky ass Hawks.

[spurraider21]

Dyson freakin Daniels

[kht]

JJJ played 2 minutes and Ja didn't even play lol.

[onechance87]

Orlando been looking like shit and can tank at any moment,So atl will likely pass them up.And miami and
bulls dnt look like anything special.Looks like atl will get into the playoffs easily.

[BatManu20]

Fucking grizzlies

1896764036790002003

[mystargtr34]

Surely the annual Trae young hamstring strain is coming soon.

[onechance87]

Surely the annual Trae young hamstring strain is coming soon.

doubt it...man has been on a mission

[spurraider21]

risacher really coming along nicely for them. daniels/risacher/jj is such a nice trio of perimeter guys around Trae. they need a better center than Okongwu though

[baseline bum]

Jesus, Memphis loses three games in a row on final possessions

[baseline bum]

risacher really coming along nicely for them. daniels/risacher/jj is such a nice trio of perimeter guys around Trae. they need a better center than Okongwu though

Ugh really feels like this is the year to get a lottery pick out of the Dejounte trade and then it's downhill from there on our draft luck after Jalen Johnson gets healthy again

[BackHome]

Man the Hawks have won so many close games this year coming back to win it is crazy

[dn0774]

Ugh really feels like this is the year to get a lottery pick out of the Dejounte trade and then it's downhill from there on our draft luck after Jalen Johnson gets healthy again

Wouldn't be surprised to see Trae moved this summer, though. Even if they aren't expected to be bottom tier team (ala Wizards) the Hawks certainly don't look like they will be legit contenders any time soon. Rumblings are that Trae will look for a situation that is closer to a title and the Hawks clearly positioned their payroll to account for that.

[timtonymanu]

:lol Grizzlies
:lol fake tough guys

[heyheymymy]

dude, why

[spursparker9]

Fuck u hawks. Fuck u dyson daniels

[LeBowen]

Considering that Sixers have given up, it's going to be on our boy Zach to eliminate the Hawks from the play-in.

[ginobilized]

Bucks helped us out tonight. One more loss for the Hawks.

[mystargtr34]

The raptors will be getting that 10th spot ahead of Bulls. And I honestly like their chances better of upsetting the Hawks in the playin.

[TXstbobcat]

Thank you Milwaukee!

[BackHome]

Yeah Bucks

[spurraider21]

Haliburton out vs hawks today :lol

[spursparker9]

5 mins left. Hawks by 5

lol how the fuck Hawk is still competitive after they lost Jalen Johnson and traded away Hunter. Effect of Ice Trae and Dyson Fucking Daniels is real.:lol

[mystargtr34]

Hawks are gonna get the 8th seed at worst, maybe even 7th. They have the second easiest remaining schedule in the league ahead of only the Raptors.

Gonna have to root for a playin upset. Hopefully Miami wins the first game and Hawks get beat by the Magic/Bulls/Raptors.

At the end of the day even if the Hawks make the playoffs pick 15 or 16 ain’t too shabby.

#endcope

[ffadicted]

Everyone better accept that the Hawks pick will not be lottery. It’s sad and unfortunate, we all thought we’d get a top 10, but this is just the reality of things.

We’ll have one good go at a top 10 talent and we better not fuck it up

[rascal]

Hawks are gonna get the 8th seed at worst, maybe even 7th. They have the second easiest remaining schedule in the league ahead of only the Raptors.

Gonna have to root for a playin upset. Hopefully Miami wins the first game and Hawks get beat by the Magic/Bulls/Raptors.

At the end of the day even if the Hawks make the playoffs pick 15 or 16 ain’t too shabby.

#endcope

Agree

Hawks are headed for 7th or 8th in the east. Orlando and Miami are not good and won't hold off Atlanta.

Expect a pick at 15 or 16.

[BackHome]

Yeah, your going to see some major tanking and teams fighting each other to get lottery positions. With all the injuries lately I would not be surprised if we are picking 12th with our pick and Hawks pick being around 19 to 21

[heyheymymy]

I am now submitting my theory that NBA teams are deliberately conceding sacrificial Ws to the Hawks to dilute the ATL FRP because they are cowards who are afraid of Wemby/Castle/Fox and don't want to play a role in handing the Spurs a free top 4 pick via ATL

CLE
BOS
IND

who else? I'm officially putting suspect teams on notice. I refuse to believe the truth which is that the Hawks are just plain good and I was wrong about them.

[rascal]

Yeah, your going to see some major tanking and teams fighting each other to get lottery positions. With all the injuries lately I would not be surprised if we are picking 12th with our pick and Hawks pick being around 19 to 21

What are the Spurs looking at with 12 and 16?

[spursparker9]

With Jalen Johnson out and trading away Hunter...I thought Hawks might fall out of playoffs.

:lol But it just seems that East is really fucking weak and on top of them, many are deliberately tanking for Flagg.

[Robz4000]

I am now submitting my theory that NBA teams are deliberately conceding sacrificial Ws to the Hawks to dilute the ATL FRP because they are cowards who are afraid of Wemby/Castle/Fox and don't want to play a role in handing the Spurs a free top 4 pick via ATL

CLE
BOS
IND

who else? I'm officially putting suspect teams on notice. I refuse to believe the truth which is that the Hawks are just plain good and I was wrong about them.

They should be doing the same thing to OKC in that case tbh. If they somehow luck into Flagg they're the Doyers of the NBA.

[heyheymymy]

They should be doing the same thing to OKC in that case tbh. If they somehow luck into Flagg they're the Doyers of the NBA.

I should also admit I underestimated Trae Young. Still won't really want him in SA but he has been strong.

Thunder also have the Heat and Clippers FRPs around 15 and 16, it's just an oppressive monopoly at this point

[heyheymymy]

With Jalen Johnson out and trading away Hunter...I thought Hawks might fall out of playoffs.

:lol But it just seems that East is really fucking weak and on top of them, many are deliberately tanking for Flagg.

Yeah another aspect that I underestimated when considering the ATL 25 FRP potential value. People warned that the bottom 4-8 would be an immediate dogpile this season for the Flagg sweepstakes and that has disproportionally affected how low ATL can realistically sink. Shame.

[Robz4000]

I should also admit I underestimated Trae Young. Still won't really want him in SA but he has been strong.

Thunder also have the Heat and Clippers FRPs around 15 and 16, it's just an oppressive monopoly at this point

:lol Spurs need to pray Wemby lives up to his potential otherwise they'll never get past OKC with their ridiculous depth and war chest.

[heyheymymy]

And that's what really pisses me off about Silver's NBA because Spurs finally get the grind on a situation and the ATL 25 FRP keeps floating up to 15!

Meanwhile OKC with an embarrassment of riches already is flirting with a 7-8ish bonus FRP from PHI just gift wrapped out of thin air plus 2 more mid firsts they could easily bundle for a serious payout and lock down the title landscape for a stretch.

[cd98]

People hate Young but he keeps Atlanta competitive and he’ll get them to at least the 8th seed. Who thinks they won’t win the play-in?

[scott]

The good news (from my POV) is that Fleming is the guy I want with ATL's pick anyway - hopefully we can get him at 15 or 16 as easily as we can at 11 or 12.

[ambchang]

The hawks had been a but lucky where they won a bunch of close games and faced multiple teams where they decide to sit out their best players. Their actual record is two games above what their expected record should be based on their offensive and defensive metrics. And that’s with about 1/3 of the season left. Hope the law of averages will hit and they will end up at a lower seed.

[TrainOfThought5]

I haven’t given up hopes for two top ten picks.

[baseline bum]

:lol Spurs need to pray Wemby lives up to his potential otherwise they'll never get past OKC with their ridiculous depth and war chest.

Spurs need to do that anyways since they're not going to draft another Manu most likely. At least got the Parker part of the equation in pretty good shape with De'Aaron though.

[Kevin]

People hate Young but he keeps Atlanta competitive and he’ll get them to at least the 8th seed. Who thinks they won’t win the play-in?

Trae will lead them though the play-in and get them into the actual playoffs. He's a competitor and that Hawks team is gritty and well coached. They'll pull through and the Spurs will be picking 15 or 16 with the Hawks pick.

[John B]

People hate Young but he keeps Atlanta competitive and he’ll get them to at least the 8th seed. Who thinks they won’t win the play-in?

But come playoff he’ll get targeted for his defense. It’s not all about Trae Young but long athletic players like Daniels whose help defense allow Trae to hide, but could get exploited again in playoffs. Spurs had Bowen, Danny, Kawhi and Manu to help TP every time, plus the overall defensive depth of the Spurs. Still I wouldn’t give up DJ’s haul back for Trae.

[exstatic]

People hate Young but he keeps Atlanta competitive and he’ll get them to at least the 8th seed. Who thinks they won’t win the play-in?

I don’t think they will. I ran across something earlier saying “You don’t win with big plays, you win by minimizing mistakes”. While Trae leads the NBA in assists, as of around the ASG, he was FOURTIETH (40) in asst/TO ratio, meaning he throws a shit load of passes away. Last night, they won by 4 or 5, and he had 16 assts and 1 TO, definitely out of the norm, but that kind of shit happens most nights with ATL and I really think their luck will run out.

[cd98]

I don’t think they will. I ran across something earlier saying “You don’t win with big plays, you win by minimizing mistakes”. While Trae leads the NBA in assists, as of around the ASG, he was FOURTIETH (40) in asst/TO ratio, meaning he throws a shit load of passes away. Last night, they won by 4 or 5, and he had 16 assts and 1 TO, definitely out of the norm, but that kind of shit happens most nights with ATL and I really think their luck will run out.

Well, he's made enough plays so far, but it is also about who is trying to make the playoffs. There could be 7 teams trying to lose in the East. the play-in teams right now are Miami, Atlanta, Orlando, and Chicago. I don't know that Miami is trying to win anymore. Orlando should be trying to win. Atlanta has no reason to lose. And Chicago should be trying to lose. Everyone below them is definitely tanking. I just think the desire to win will get Atlanta in the playoffs when the other teams stop trying altogether.

[RC_Drunkford]

ATL gets in the playoffs. Everybody shits their pants when Trae Young has the ball in his hands and it's a one posession game. Besides that the guys they got back in the trades for Hunter and Bogdanovic are all putting up quality numbers off the bench.

[exstatic]

Well, he's made enough plays so far, but it is also about who is trying to make the playoffs. There could be 7 teams trying to lose in the East. the play-in teams right now are Miami, Atlanta, Orlando, and Chicago. I don't know that Miami is trying to win anymore. Orlando should be trying to win. Atlanta has no reason to lose. And Chicago should be trying to lose. Everyone below them is definitely tanking. I just think the desire to win will get Atlanta in the playoffs when the other teams stop trying altogether.

Miami is desperately trying to win. The pick that they owe OKC is lottery protected this year, but completely unprotected next year for the Dybantsa Boozer draft, and they would much prefer to convey it at 15 or later than be one or two injuries away from disaster next year.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

The good news (from my POV) is that Fleming is the guy I want with ATL's pick anyway - hopefully we can get him at 15 or 16 as easily as we can at 11 or 12.

I’ve been high on Fleming (and Riley) from early on but I’m starting to doubt he lasts to 15 now unless some guys impress in march madness. This draft looks barren from like pick 5 or 6.

[CGD]

The team that’s screwing us now is Orlando. Their tailspin is keeping ATL alive for a playoff spot.

[mo7888]

I've had Fleming hovering around top 10 all year. I'm hoping his age makes a few GM's pass over him and he drops. I personally think the drop off starts at pick 5 and the next drop-off is around pick 11. I'm pretty happy with that range.

[TXstbobcat]

Fucking Pacers aren’t even putting up a fight against the hawks tonight. Down big after the first quarter.

[BackHome]

The East is tanking so bad that even the Raptors may make the PlayIn...they going to have to work really hard to not make it......

[scott]

Hawks beat the Pacers on a shocking display of stupidity by Siakam, going for two with time running out while down by three :lol

[dn0774]

Feels like everybody that plays the Hawks has their best player out lately, no Haliburton these last 2 games and no Ja Morant a couple before that. The Hawks by advanced stats should have a worse record than they do.

[baseline bum]

Hawks beat the Pacers on a shocking display of stupidity by Siakam, going for two with time running out while down by three :lol

Ah the old Steve Francis end of game statpad.

[exstatic]

They keep catching teams with injured players and winning by one or two points. Hali wasn’t even on the active 13 man roster tonight.

[TXstbobcat]

The bulls did win tonight so if we lose to the wolves tomorrow we will be with one game of catching Chicago.

[SpursBills]

Too bad, them's the breaks. Could be worse, 3 years ago if you had told me that in 2025 spurs would have Wemby, Fox, and a rookie who looks like a future all-star guy to go along with a lottery pick and a mid-first, I'd take that all day long. Can't get too mad at the Hawks having a lucky season after the breaks that Spurs have gotten already. Time for the scouting department to live up to their reputation and see if they can't get a solid mid-round pull. In the 15-18 range, Jase Richardson starts looking really interesting if Fleming's off the board / Spurs have their defensive forward. Otherwise, Sorber as long as his foot issues don't project to be a big deal and the Spurs already drafted shooting.

[paperboy77]

But come playoff he’ll get targeted for his defense. It’s not all about Trae Young but long athletic players like Daniels whose help defense allow Trae to hide, but could get exploited again in playoffs. Spurs had Bowen, Danny, Kawhi and Manu to help TP every time, plus the overall defensive depth of the Spurs. Still I wouldn’t give up DJ’s haul back for Trae.

Maybe everything you say about Tre is right and probably what most would say. Still the guy has a certain something that will have teams shitting their pants in the playoffs. He just has that blend of killer instinct and presence that for me makes him who we should have really gone after.

[Sugus]

Maybe everything you say about Tre is right and probably what most would say. Still the guy has a certain something that will have teams shitting their pants in the playoffs. He just has that blend of killer instinct and presence that for me makes him who we should have really gone after.

You're not alone here - plenty of people will be going after him......


In the playoffs, if they make them.

[exstatic]

Maybe everything you say about Tre is right and probably what most would say. Still the guy has a certain something that will have teams shitting their pants in the playoffs. He just has that blend of killer instinct and presence that for me makes him who we should have really gone after.

Nah, we at least got someone who plays some defense,and next year,you’ll see that he’s as clutch as Trae. Fox has actually won the NBA clutch player award in its inaugural year.

[paperboy77]

Nah, we at least got someone who plays some defense,and next year,you’ll see that he’s as clutch as Trae. Fox has actually won the NBA clutch player award in its inaugural year.

Yeah i heard that somewhere. I'm good either way but i still think Tre commands more attention than Fox which would be even better for the rest of the team. I've always thought Wemby needs a true Alpha on the team for him to follow and be great as an aside. Especially at the center position where you are dependent on someone getting you the ball. (Wemby dribbling the ball downcourt will be a no-go in the playoffs.)

[Ice009]

Maybe everything you say about Tre is right and probably what most would say. Still the guy has a certain something that will have teams shitting their pants in the playoffs. He just has that blend of killer instinct and presence that for me makes him who we should have really gone after.

I don't know if I'm right or wrong, but I was very interested in Trae. I know he's a great passer (this really is one of his main strengths), but on the outside looking in, it seems like he's a bit like an inefficient scorer, and he's also a poor defender that most teams will try to hunt on that end of the court in the playoffs. Having said that, he also seems to be a killer with the game on the line, so I don't know. I think he's a darn good player where you can tell at the end of the game he wants to take that shot and can hit that shot to win it (you can tell he has the confidence and isn't afraid at the end of the game with those pressure shots/plays). Luka may be the more efficient player shooting the ball, but they both feel like that can take and make the shot (or pass the ball to the right player) with the game on the line.

I'd like to see how he does in the playoffs on a team that plays defense, and demands it just to see if he can actually be serviceable on that end. I haven't watched him much, though, so maybe there's not much upside for him on the defensive end.

[cd98]

People keep saying Atlanta will start losing, and yet they don't. Young is better than Fox. He can shoot better and he is a better creator. Sure, Young is not a great defender, but it is overrated that he can't survive in a play off series because people will "hunt" him. All teams deal with that, including championship teams, and the Spurs are particularly built to handle that one with on the generationally great shot blockers and defenders in the game.

I'm sure the Spurs will be great with Fox, but I think they would've been better with Young.

[Sugus]

Sigh. Why are falling back into this "Fox VS Trae" bullshit?

Trae Young was never available for the Spurs. This was not an option, simple as that. Building up an imaginary fabrication of Trae in SanAn is a clear manifestation of the "What is ideal is an enemy of what is possible" proverb.

The Hawks could never have accepted a "Young for our picks back" type of deal because they could not face the admissions that 1) Taking Trae over Luka originally was a gigantic blunder, and 2) The Dejounte trade was terrible for them.

Having to ship out their franchise superstar in order to recoup the picks they traded away to bring a misfit "Robin" to the team would've been catastrophic optics for the FO, and such an admission of FO ineptitude, that I'm not at all surprised to never have seen an offer on the table from the Hawks. They're rumored to have a "family-oriented" FO, and accountability is the antithesis of that business model.

[exstatic]

I don't know if I'm right or wrong, but I was very interested in Tre. I know he's a great passer (this really is one of his main strengths), but on the outside looking in, it seems like he's a bit like an inefficient scorer, and he's also a poor defender that most teams will try to hunt on that end of the court in the playoffs. Having said that, he also seems to be a killer with the game on the line, so I don't know. I think he's a darn good player where you can tell at the end of the game he wants to take that shot and can hit that shot to win it (you can tell he has the confidence and isn't afraid at the end of the game with those pressure shots/plays). Luka may be the more efficient player shooting the ball, but they both feel like that can take and make the shot (or pass the ball to the right player) with the game on the line.

I'd like to see how he does in the playoffs on a team that plays defense, and demands it just to see if he can actually be serviceable on that end. I haven't watched him much, though, so maybe there's not much upside for him on the defensive end.

He’s a volume assist guy who turns over the ball way too much. Around the ASG, he was first in the NBA in assists, but 40th in asst/TO ratio. If there’s such a thing as an assist chucker, he’s it.

[scott]

People keep saying Atlanta will start losing, and yet they don't. Young is better than Fox. He can shoot better and he is a better creator. Sure, Young is not a great defender, but it is overrated that he can't survive in a play off series because people will "hunt" him. All teams deal with that, including championship teams, and the Spurs are particularly built to handle that one with on the generationally great shot blockers and defenders in the game.

I'm sure the Spurs will be great with Fox, but I think they would've been better with Young.

Trae Young career shooting splits: 43.2/35.0/87.2 - eFG% of 50.3

De'Aaron Fox career shooting splits: 47.0/33.0/74.6 - eFG% of 51.5

Trae shoots (kind of inefficiently as he's below league average) 2.9 more 3PA/gm than Fox. If they both shot at Trae's career volume, it would equate to 0.15 extra 3PM/gm which amounts to less than 0.5 pts/gm. If they both shot at Fox's career volume (which might be more appropriate for a below league average shooter like Trae), it would only be 0.09 extra 3PM/gm, which amounts to 0.27 pts/gm.

Trae is not an appreciably better shooter than Fox, and Fox makes up for it with a better shot diet (resulting in a higher eFG%).

[Mal]

He’s a volume assist guy who turns over the ball way too much. Around the ASG, he was first in the NBA in assists, but 40th in asst/TO ratio. If there’s such a thing as an assist chucker, he’s it.

Isnt that the Hawks "system" for Tre to dribble dribble and then either shoot, flop or pass for instant shot from other guys ?

[scott]

Sigh. Why are falling back into this "Fox VS Trae" bullshit?

Trae Young was never available for the Spurs. This was not an option, simple as that. Building up an imaginary fabrication of Trae in SanAn is a clear manifestation of the "What is ideal is an enemy of what is possible" proverb.

The Hawks could never have accepted a "Young for our picks back" type of deal because they could not face the admissions that 1) Taking Trae over Luka originally was a gigantic blunder, and 2) The Dejounte trade was terrible for them.

Having to ship out their franchise superstar in order to recoup the picks they traded away to bring a misfit "Robin" to the team would've been catastrophic optics for the FO, and such an admission of FO ineptitude, that I'm not at all surprised to never have seen an offer on the table from the Hawks. They're rumored to have a "family-oriented" FO, and accountability is the antithesis of that business model.

And even if Trae WAS available, it would have likely cost all of the Atlanta picks.

So say for a moment that you think Trae is a better player (which I don't, and neither do places like The Ringer, which list Fox as the 21st best player in the league and Trae as the 30th best player in the league... I'll provide more comparative data at the end of this post)... would folks here prefer Trae over Fox to the tune of giving up all of the ATL picks? I sure as hell wouldn't.

But as far as "Trae is better than Fox"... let's see what other opinions and (more importantly) factual data tells us:



Source
Fox Rank
Young Rank


The Ringer Top 100 Players (Updated 2/27)
21
30


CBS Preseason Top 100 Players
27
35


ESPN Preseason Top 100 Players
26
37



So all three of these publications are in agreement that Fox > Young.

What do the advanced stats say?



Stat
Fox
Young


VORP
1.3
0.8


CraftedWARP
4.46
3.2


LEBRON WAR
4.79
4.15


CraftedPlusMinus
1.8
0.6


CraftedOPM
2.1
3.0


CraftedDPM
-0.3
-2.4


BPM
0.5
-0.4


OBPM
1.4
2.4


DBPM
-0.8
-2.9


DARKO
1.6
1.5


DARKO O-DPM
2.3
3.4


DARKO D-DPM
-0.7
-2.0


DRIP
1.8
1.0


O-DRIP
2.3
2.7


D-DRIP
-0.5
-1.7


LEBRON
1.2
0.6


O-LEBRON
1.44
2.30


D-LEBRON
-0.29
-1.67



Almost every advanced statistical measure points to Fox being a better player. Young is a better offensive player, but by virtue of being one of the the absolute worst defenders in the league (2nd percentile CraftedDPM, 4th percentile D-LEBRON) whereas Fox is more of a middle of the road defender, is a worse overall player than Fox... which aligns with the fact that every publication rates Fox as the better player in their own rankings.

[TD 21]

^ Yeah, Young is the better offensive "engine" (playmaker and despite the down shooting season, pullup three-point shooter), but Fox is better two-way.

Now you could argue, especially with PG's/small guards, that the former is of greater importance, but in the end it's splitting hairs.

The Spurs would be different, but more or less the same in either case.

[BatManu20]

Another Hawks W tonight, this time against the tanking Sixers. They have one of the easiest remaining schedules in the league. Hopefully we land a difference maker with that 17th Overall Pick :lol

[onechance87]

whole east is trash

[Ditty]

The Heat had to choke tonight lol.

Best case scenario is looking like the Magic or lolheat get it together and Hawks drop a few games to get the 8th seed.

Hawks get the 8th seed and lose to 7th seed. Then lose to the winner of the other play in game.

15th or 16th pick is looking most like it now. Magic and Heat had to start to fucking suck lol

[mystargtr34]

The East is hot garbage outside of the top 6.

Hoping Cooper Flagg goes East if it’s not to the Spurs. Wizards or Whorenets would be nice.

[slick'81]

20th pick here we come

[cd98]

Atlanta, at worst, loses 7 games the rest of the way. Very low probability they won't make the play in and they have looked better than the other play-in teams. Hard to see them not being at least the 8th seed.

[LeBowen]

Atlanta, at worst, loses 7 games the rest of the way. Very low probability they won't make the play in and they have looked better than the other play-in teams. Hard to see them not being at least the 8th seed.

They're a high variance, inconsistent team. Can beat anyone on a good night, but can also completely disappear.

They have the easiest remaining schedule, it's going to come down to the play-in games.

[exstatic]

Another Hawks W tonight, this time against the tanking Sixers. They have one of the easiest remaining schedules in the league. Hopefully we land a difference maker with that 17th Overall Pick :lol

They would have to climb 4.5 games to get to 17, but only drop back 1.5 to return to 11. I’d say 11 is much more likely.

[Kevin]

They would have to climb 4.5 games to get to 17, but only drop back 1.5 to return to 11. I’d say 11 is much more likely.

Its all going to boil down to the play in games. Trae Young will show up and carry them to the 8 seed.

[Russ]

Who is the best player the Spurs ever drafted with someone else's pick (excluding draft day deals, etc.)?

[Kevin]

Its interesting looking at the Spurs lotto odds in comparison to where they were at around the trade deadline.

At the deadline the Spurs had the 10th and 11th best earned draft position which carry combined odds of 23.3% chance at the top four and a 5% chance at first overall. They now have the 8th and 16th. The 16th is out of the lottery and the 8th spot has a 26.3% chance at top four with a 6% chance at first overall.

Overall the Spurs odds of landing a top four pick have actually gone up slightly but if they don't get lotto luck their overall position worsened.

It's an interesting question in theory. Would you rather have the 8 and 16 with slightly better odds of landing a top four pick or the 10 and 11 with slightly worse odds at landing a top four pick.

[CGD]

Its interesting looking at the Spurs lotto odds in comparison to where they were at around the trade deadline.

At the deadline the Spurs had the 10th and 11th best earned draft position which carry combined odds of 23.3% chance at the top four and a 5% chance at first overall. They now have the 8th and 16th. The 16th is out of the lottery and the 8th spot has a 26.3% chance at top four with a 6% chance at first overall.

Overall the Spurs odds of landing a top four pick have actually gone up slightly but if they don't get lotto luck their overall position worsened.

It's an interesting question in theory. Would you rather have the 8 and 16 with slightly better odds of landing a top four pick or the 10 and 11 with slightly worse odds at landing a top four pick.

Didn’t appreciate this, thanks for posting.

Based on what I’ve read about the “big drop” after 5, I’m inclined to do 8 and 16. Think they can still grab a good shooter at 16, while taking a swing with the higher pick.

[exstatic]

Its all going to boil down to the play in games. Trae Young will show up and carry them to the 8 seed.

It’s a crapshoot. They could wind up anywhere from 7th to 9th in the East. If they’re 9th, I don’t like their chances to win two games against focused opponents who care about the games.

[Kevin]

Didn’t appreciate this, thanks for posting.

Based on what I’ve read about the “big drop” after 5, I’m inclined to do 8 and 16. Think they can still grab a good shooter at 16, while taking a swing with the higher pick.

With Flagg and Ace you’d much rather have the 8 and 16 with slightly better odds at a top four pick. In a weak draft like last season you just might take the 10 and 11 slightly worse odds at a top four pick.

[exstatic]

With Flagg and Ace you’d much rather have the 8 and 16 with slightly better odds at a top four pick. In a weak draft like last season you just might take the 10 and 11 slightly worse odds at a top four pick.

Shutting down Fox for the surgery next week, we’ve got pretty good odds to lock in #8. If the basketball gods stop crapping onus ATL will finish at 9th in the East, and the #11 spot. 8 and 11 would be just fine by me.

BTW, holding picks 9,10 gives you slightly better odds than just pick 8 in the lottery.

[MannyIsGod]

I STG it feels like Atlanta has won so many close games that at best were coinflips for them. This team is over performing and its incredibly frustrating.

Their expected winning percentage is a full .06 lower than the actual! They should be at .417 and instead are .477. Combined with the super weak East and this is the Spurs getting fucked out of another lotto pick.

[dn0774]

I STG it feels like Atlanta has won so many close games that at best were coinflips for them. This team is over performing and its incredibly frustrating.

Their expected winning percentage is a full .06 lower than the actual! They should be at .417 and instead are .477. Combined with the super weak East and this is the Spurs getting fucked out of another lotto pick.

It sucks that this years Hawks pick is looking more and more like a let down. But remember, we still have 2 more (1 of those as a potential swap) coming. I know some think the Hawks are on an upward trajectory but I don't really see it. Their ownership already made cost cutting trade deadline moves, I have to wonder what this summer looks like for them and if Trae is going to continue to be invested going forward. Jalen Johnson is good albeit injured a lot. Risacher is solid but hasn't really shown star potential. Just so much of the east is terrible that it props up the Hawks. Hopefully some the dumpster fire east teams can take some steps forward ala Detroit this year.

[BackHome]

The last 7 games Hawks play Orlando twice, Philly, Dallas, Nets, Knicks, and Utah. :cry

[dn0774]

Just gotta hope they crash out in the play-in.

[SpursGenius]

they have been very lucky all year doesnt help that orlando sux ass this year

[exstatic]

they have been very lucky all year doesnt help that orlando sux ass this year

Probably the most disappointing team this year. Not only did they not progress, but they took a clear step back. Signing KCP seemed like the logical next step, but now seems presumptuous and foolish.

[spursistan]

It is time to think seriously about packaging those future Hawks picks for immediate roster upgrades. The combination of the East being trash for the foreseeable future, Atlanta having pretty promising building-blocks along with continued Trae floor-raising, and Quin Snyder's proven ability to make lemonade out of mediocre rosters-- all suggest that those picks will be far less tasty than originally thought.

[quentin_compson]

Probably the most disappointing team this year. Not only did they not progress, but they took a clear step back. Signing KCP seemed like the logical next step, but now seems presumptuous and foolish.

How dare they! It's almost like a lot of injuries might have happened ...

[exstatic]

How dare they! It's almost like a lot of injuries might have happened ...

Everyone’s back now, and they still stink like a dead carcass.

[CGD]

It is time to think seriously about packaging those future Hawks picks for immediate roster upgrades. The combination of the East being trash for the foreseeable future, Atlanta having pretty promising building-blocks along with continued Trae floor-raising, and Quin Snyder's proven ability to make lemonade out of mediocre rosters-- all suggest that those picks will be far less tasty than originally thought.

Vassell + ATLs 25FRP has value. That’s one way to use it this summer (plus Barnes’ expiring).

We’ve arguably also already “used” their 27FRP in that it gave the Spurs space to send out their natural pick to SAC while keeping skin in that draft.

[scott]

Vassell + ATLs 25FRP has value. That’s one way to use it this summer (plus Barnes’ expiring).

We’ve arguably also already “used” their 27FRP in that it gave the Spurs space to send out their natural pick to SAC while keeping skin in that draft.

Not picking on you, but I see a lot of folks including Barnes in outgoing trade ideas. Why are we so eager to move HB? He’s one of the few competent players we have (and by that I mostly mean guys who could start on a playoff team. Wemby, Fox, Barnes that’s about it right now - with Castle surely on his way there soon).

Is it because we want something more of Barnes? Just because his expiring presents value? Concerns that his age is about to present a drop off? HB takes pretty meticulous care of his body and I could see him performing at this level in this role for another 3-4 years. I would love to see us extend him. With that said, he is definitely one of the more valuable trade chips we have.

[heyheymymy]

Agree Barnes is a keeper right now in most scenarios

[CGD]

Not picking on you, but I see a lot of folks including Barnes in outgoing trade ideas. Why are we so eager to move HB? He’s one of the few competent players we have (and by that I mostly mean guys who could start on a playoff team. Wemby, Fox, Barnes that’s about it right now - with Castle surely on his way there soon).

Is it because we want something more of Barnes? Just because his expiring presents value? Concerns that his age is about to present a drop off? HB takes pretty meticulous care of his body and I could see him performing at this level in this role for another 3-4 years. I would love to see us extend him. With that said, he is definitely one of the more valuable trade chips we have.

Strictly for the expiring salary. For example, if PHX doesnt want to take on more long term money in a Durant deal etc.

Otherwise, I too like Barnes for what he brings to the team (though is D is pretty meh), and everything he’s doing for the community. More importantly Pop LOVES him, so he’ll probably be here until his 40s.

[ginobilized]

Barnes has been everything we could've hoped for from an essentially "free" player. I'd love to see him back and mentoring a good prospect or two next season. If he was of value to another team for a young and talented player, we'd at least have to listen to any offers.

Barnes is so efficient with tremendous economy of motion. His superpower is that he almost never hits only one 3 pointer. He will nail 3-4 in a row in 2 mins. He's a class act and a consummate pro, obviously.

[Teamduncan21]

Isn't it because Barnes have value that can add?

For example if we trade say Malaki. We won't get much. But if we trade Barnes we might be able to get a protected first or something (not accurate value just pointing out why people love adding him)

[cutewizard]

Hope we can have valuable pieces in the offseason

[cd98]

We need Trae to sprain an ankle or a groin or hamstring injury that sits him for a couple weeks.

[SpurSpike]

Man, just looked at their remaining schedule and it is an absolute cakewalk. We aren't getting that lotto pick...

[couchman]

At this point I'll be surprised if ATL is a lottery pick.
Trae would have to get hurt to keep them out of the playoffs and I can't ever root for something like that.

It's amazing how much Trae can keep them competitive no matter what is happening around him.
They've lost two guys worth almost 40ppg to injury or trade and Ice Trae just starts making their replacements look like good players. Remember John Collins y'all?
The guy is just a phenomenal floor raiser on offense and he's so clutch that he helps them win more than their share of close games.

[exstatic]

Man, just looked at their remaining schedule and it is an absolute cakewalk. We aren't getting that lotto pick...

They’re a game and a half ahead of pick #11, and as much as they’ve over performed against top teams, they’ve underperformed against bottom teams. If they just regress to the mean and finish with the record that their net rating says they should, they’ll finish in the lottery, 11th pick spot, and #9 in the East,needing to win 2 consecutive games against motivated focused teams to exit the lottery, the second one on the road.

[exstatic]

At this point I'll be surprised if ATL is a lottery pick.
Trae would have to get hurt to keep them out of the playoffs and I can't ever root for something like that.

It's amazing how much Trae can keep them competitive no matter what is happening around him.
They've lost two guys worth almost 40ppg to injury or trade and Ice Trae just starts making their replacements look like good players. Remember John Collins y'all?
The guy is just a phenomenal floor raiser on offense and he's so clutch that he helps them win more than their share of close games.

John Collins looks better now in Utah than he did in ATL, where his numbers dropped every year with Trae until ATL salary dumped him.

ATL is fighting for a 7/8 spot in the lottery, not contender status. If they do manage to play in, and fuck us out of a second lottery pick, they will be summarily and abruptly dismissed by the top seed. Don’t get confused by some one-off games in December or February. They are not a serous team, and they are only in the position they are because the EC is shit.

[SpurSpike]

Hawks remaining schedule... W/L based on previous match ups this year.

Hornets 1W
Clippers 1L
Nets 1W
Hornets 1W
Warriors 1L
76ers 1W
Rockets 1L
Heat 2w 1L
Bucks 2W 2L
Blazers 1L
Mavericks 1L
Knicks 2W 1L
Jazz 1W
Magic 1W
Nets 1W
76ers 1W
Magic 1W

Based on this they should go 11W/5L with one game that could go either way.

[scott]

11-5 seems aggressive for a team like ATL... will probably end up a lot closer to 8-8, which is still good enough to look them into the 7 seed.

[exstatic]

Hawks remaining schedule... W/L based on previous match ups this year.

Hornets 1W
Clippers 1L
Nets 1W
Hornets 1W
Warriors 1L
76ers 1W
Rockets 1L
Heat 2w 1L
Bucks 2W 2L
Blazers 1L
Mavericks 1L
Knicks 2W 1L
Jazz 1W
Magic 1W
Nets 1W
76ers 1W
Magic 1W

Based on this they should go 11W/5L with one game that could go either way.

They’re a sub .500 team, and you have them going on a heater to 11-5. Okaaaaay.

[R. DeMurre]

Probably the most disappointing team this year. Not only did they not progress, but they took a clear step back. Signing KCP seemed like the logical next step, but now seems presumptuous and foolish.


Paolo was injured, but I think the real issue is that he may not be the impact player some are thinking (or hoping) he could be. He puts up flashy numbers, but there are a lot of red flags going back all the way to Duke (poor TS%, mediocre rebounding, average D) that, if not fixed, will put him much more in the Zach Randolph/Blake Griffin range of impact rather than the Duncan/KG/Dirk range.

[SpurSpike]

Its a very weak schedule and the W/L isn't something i pulled out my ass, its based off of the records they already have against those teams this year. If history repeats itself as it often does that is a real possibility.

[scott]

Its a very weak schedule and the W/L isn't something i pulled out my ass, its based off of the records they already have against those teams this year. If history repeats itself as it often does that is a real possibility.

I get how you came up with 11-5, but of the remaining schedule I could easily see losses to LAC, GSW, HOU, MIA, MIL, POR, NYK, and one of the ORL games. There's 8 losses right there. Could some of those flip to wins? Of course. Could some of the other 8 wins flip to losses? Also of course. I'm just saying, if you were asking me to bet on 11-5 to close the season for ATL, I'm fading that big time. We'll see!


Hornets 1W
Clippers 1L
Nets 1W
Hornets 1W
Warriors 1L
76ers 1W
Rockets 1L
Heat 2w 1L
Bucks 2W 2L
Blazers 1L
Mavericks 1L
Knicks 2W 1L
Jazz 1W
Magic 1W
Nets 1W
76ers 1W
Magic 1W

[SpurSpike]

I get how you came up with 11-5, but of the remaining schedule I could easily see losses to LAC, GSW, HOU, MIA, MIL, POR, NYK, and one of the ORL games. There's 8 losses right there. Could some of those flip to wins? Of course. Could some of the other 8 wins flip to losses? Also of course. I'm just saying, if you were asking me to bet on 11-5 to close the season for ATL, I'm fading that big time. We'll see!

[COLOR=#000000]

That's fair to say, especially with the injuries they have sustained mid season which would make comparing the W/L less accurate. Still if I was betting I would bet they go over .500 for the remainder of the season given the weak schedule.

[SpursBills]

Paolo was injured, but I think the real issue is that he may not be the impact player some are thinking (or hoping) he could be. He puts up flashy numbers, but there are a lot of red flags going back all the way to Duke (poor TS%, mediocre rebounding, average D) that, if not fixed, will put him much more in the Zach Randolph/Blake Griffin range of impact rather than the Duncan/KG/Dirk range.

Underrated comment right here. Paolo's game is very aesthetically pleasing because he's highly skilled in a tactical sense - big, strong, great handle for his size, skilled passer, gets lots of buckets. But you compare his on/off especially with Franz Wagner and it paints a terrible picture

Source: databallr.com




Minutes
OFF
DEF
NET


Paolo/Franz
3726

112.5
111.4
1.1


Franz
4484

111
110.8
0.3


Paolo
2149
111.2
120.1
-8.8


No Paolo/Franz
3065
103.8
112.9
-9



Injuries have something to do with this, but the sample size is dating back to when they started their careers. Trend is even more exaggerated when looking at this season, although that might be noisy due to Suggs' injuries.

I was going to use the below table as part of a CMB propaganda piece, but it works just as well functioning as a Paolo hit piece:




USG
ORTG
Team 3%
AST%
AST:TO
NBA prospects
Draft Age
SOS DRTG ranking
SOS DRTG


Zion Williamson
28.2
129.2
30.7
15
0.9
3
18.95
11
97.8


Julius Randle
26.2
111.2
33.7
10
0.6
5
19.55
6
99.8


Paolo Banchero
27.2
111.3
44.6
17.5
1.3
4
19.6
63
99.6


CMB
27.3
115.8
31.9
21.6
1
0
20
24
100.5


Jared Sullinger
27.3
117.8
32.9
8.6
0.6
1
20.23
13
98.8




This basically looks at pre-draft numbers of ball-handling big forwards with high usage. I'm not including dudes who only function as a floor spacer or cutter or whatever. These guys all have the ball in their hands a ton and act as a fulcrum for their respective offenses. I wanted to look at how capable they were of generating efficient offense. Team 3 point percentage includes the entire team except for the player in question. I also looked at the number of draft prospects also on the team to get a feel for the overall talent level for their teams.

The guy that sticks out the most is Zion - in spite of horrific spacing and playing against the best defense, he generated by far the most efficient offense at the youngest age. 129 offensive rating against his schedule is absurd - this is part of what made him the second best prospect of the last 15 years to me.

The other guy that sticks out, but negatively, is Paolo. With 4 other NBA prospects on his team (Mark Williams, Trevor Keels, Wendell Moore, AJ Griffin), and by far the best high volume spacing, he still could only power a mediocre offense.

Take from that data what you will.

[Guru of Nothing]

Go Hornets!

[BatManu20]

Hawks win again tonight. Blazers lose at the buzzer too while the Spurs won so we drop from 8 to 10. Need to start stacking losses but PATFO would rather dick around tbh.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Hawks win again tonight. Blazers lose at the buzzer too while the Spurs won so we drop from 8 to 10. Need to start stacking losses but PATFO would rather dick around tbh.

Gonna try and win some more games to make it more palatable to Spurs fans when Pop names Mitch the bitch his successor.

[Ice009]

Hawks win again tonight. Blazers lose at the buzzer too while the Spurs won so we drop from 8 to 10. Need to start stacking losses but PATFO would rather dick around tbh.

Darn, that one win push us to 10th?

[BatManu20]

Darn, that one win push us to 10th?

For now. We're neck and neck with the Bulls and Blazers. We need those two to win as many games as possible but I don't see us finishing below them considering Spurs aren't tanking.

[BatManu20]

Gonna try and win some more games to make it more palatable to Spurs fans when Pop names Mitch the bitch his successor.

Unserious franchise if we do that tbh.

[exstatic]

Darn, that one win push us to 10th?

The advantage we have is that we’ve played 2-3 games less than most teams, and the Fox shutdown looms. We’ll probably finish 9th because Portland genuinely seems to be trying, but 8th is a real possibility.

[Kevin]

Dream scenario:

8 and 11. Combined odds of top four pick at 35.7% with a 8% shot at first overall.

Nightmare scenario:

11 only. 9.4% chance at top four with a 2% chance at first overall.

An acceptable realistic middle ground for me would be the 8 being our only lotto pick or the 10 and 11 combined. 8th pick alone has a 26.3% chance at top four with a 6% chance at first. The 10 and 11 combined carry 23.3% at top four and a 5% chance at first overall.

[montgod]

For now. We're neck and neck with the Bulls and Blazers. We need those two to win as many games as possible but I don't see us finishing below them considering Spurs aren't tanking.

Really need the 17th to get here sooner to hopefully shut down Fox for the season.

[mystargtr34]

Really bad loss for Detroit to Washington last night.

Atlanta is now only 4 losses behind Detroit for that 6 seed. Detroit has the third toughest remaining schedule in the league, Atlanta the fourth easiest.

Atlanta might be getting that 6 seed.

[Ice009]

Darn, should have maybe tried to trade this year's Atlanta pick with some players to the Jazz for Lauri Markkanen. I absolutely hate coming into this thread and seeing the Hawks win all the time. I'd be happy for them if one of the Spurs' draft picks didn't hinge on them losing.

[onechance87]

Really bad loss for Detroit to Washington last night.

Atlanta is now only 4 losses behind Detroit for that 6 seed. Detroit has the third toughest remaining schedule in the league, Atlanta the fourth easiest.

Atlanta might be getting that 6 seed.

fck...was just thinking about that.

[Ocotillo]

At this rate, Atlanta is coming out of the East to face OKC or whoever in the finals. :lol

[exstatic]

Darn, should have maybe tried to trade this year's Atlanta pick with some players to the Jazz for Lauri Markkanen. I absolutely hate coming into this thread and seeing the Hawks win all the time. I'd be happy for them if one of the Spurs' draft picks didn't hinge on them losing.

Ainge would never have taken just one Atlanta pick. He would have wanted both, plus probably the Minny 20131. I mean, he’s asking two FRPs for Walker Kessler, who was drafted in the 20s.

[TXstbobcat]

nice win for the Bulls to help us out last night.

[objective]

Markannen wasn't eligible to be traded in season because of when he signed his extension.

[Ice009]

Ainge would never have taken just one Atlanta pick. He would have wanted both, plus probably the Minny 20131. I mean, he’s asking two FRPs for Walker Kessler, who was drafted in the 20s.

Well if that's the case, I don't feel so bad about it at all then. Having said that, before the season started Atlanta weren't projected to finish high up, so maybe if the offer was made for the first draft pick, Devin and another good player, plus a much later down the road pick, maybe they do it. Question is, do they still get Fox if a couple of picks are traded, and would you rather have Fox for what he was traded for rather than Lauri who might have cost 2 first round picks, and a couple of players such as Devin Vassell and someone else. I do remember that people here and maybe even the Spurs themselves didn't want to trade Devin. If they were willing to, though, maybe Ainge starts listening. I guess you can't go back in time as none of us knew how Devin would play this season and none of us knew Atlanta would be doing so well.

[montgod]

At this rate, Atlanta is coming out of the East to face OKC or whoever in the finals. :lol

I know :bang. Fields, ATL GM, gotta give him credit for cleaning up the mess that was. Getting Daniels in that DJ trade was very underrated and he's providing what they thought DJ was going to. Just really has made everything mesh well along with Okongwu playing like he should. If Jalen hadn't gotten hurt, they would be even higher in the standings.

[TXstbobcat]

Hawks finally dropping a game tonight down big in the 4th. Thank you Clippers.

[mystargtr34]

Lol Hawks lost the 3rd quarter 35-8.

Fuck the Hawks.

Nephew of Uncle Dennis doing the Spurs a solid.

[TXstbobcat]

Lol Hawks lost the 3rd quarter 35-8.

Fuck the Hawks.

Nephew of Uncle Dennis doing the Spurs a solid.

35-8 in a quarter is a fucking Ike Turner beatdown

[Mal]

8-35 :dizzy

[mystargtr34]

35-8 in a quarter is a fucking Ike Turner beatdown

Yeah that is Spurs-friendship-core level bad

[ginobilized]

Let's keep the L's flowing with the Hawks and Spurs.

[exstatic]

Maybe this will be a hard reset on their bullshit lucky ass season.

[CGD]

Maybe this will be a hard reset on their bullshit lucky ass season.

Let’s hope, but honestly the Florida teams have been so ass that I think that’s the bigger factor for that . We may as well be rooting for Toronto to pass us instead tbh (and Portland to stay hot).

[rascal]

Maybe this will be a hard reset on their bullshit lucky ass season.

This was one of their harder games. Their schedule is weak.

[scott]

Problem is that ORL and MIA can't win any games either. Hawks look like they have a pretty clear path to the #7 seed in the East.

On the flip side... I think TOR and the 7th lotto seed is more achievable than we think for the Spurs. We're 3 up in the W column versus the Raptors, but we still play them twice and TOR actually has a decent shot of catching CHI for the last play-in seed in the east. Keep and eye on this space. If we could just get BKN to also push for that play-in spot we'd have an outside shot at the #6 lotto seed, but I don't see that happening. #7 can be had though if we tank hard enough.

[mo7888]

Does anyone know where the Atlanta pick would fall if the end up #7, but lose the first play-in game?

[scott]

Does anyone know where the Atlanta pick would fall if the end up #7, but lose the first play-in game?

if the season ended today, the ATL pick would convey at #16 if they won the first or the second play-in game.

If they, however, lost the first play-in game to ORL, *and* then lost to the winner of CHI-MIA, then the pick would convey at #12 (ahead of whomever of DAL/SAC/LAC/MIN lost the Play-In). PHX would jump to #11 in their scenario, which would convey to HOU.

[mo7888]

if the season ended today, the ATL pick would convey at #16 if they won the first or the second play-in game.

If they, however, lost the first play-in game to ORL, *and* then lost to the winner of CHI-MIA, then the pick would convey at #12 (ahead of whomever of DAL/SAC/LAC/MIN lost the Play-In). PHX would jump to #11 in their scenario, which would convey to HOU.

Thanks. That's good stuff...

[baseline bum]

Darn, should have maybe tried to trade this year's Atlanta pick with some players to the Jazz for Lauri Markkanen. I absolutely hate coming into this thread and seeing the Hawks win all the time. I'd be happy for them if one of the Spurs' draft picks didn't hinge on them losing.

Gotta say I'm pretty happy getting De'Aaron. A three point shooting big would have been really nice but not as nice as fastest man in the league at PG. I remember when Fox was the guy we all wished we could have been drafting with his size and length when talking about Dillingham and Sheppard last year and now he's on the roster, with Dillingham the biggest piece making it happen. :lol

[Sugus]

Gotta say I'm pretty happy getting De'Aaron. A three point shooting big would have been really nice but not as nice as fastest man in the league at PG. I remember when Fox was the guy we all wished we could have been drafting with his size and length when talking about Dillingham and Sheppard last year and now he's on the roster, with Dillingham the biggest piece making it happen. :lol

Agreed. Watching people here tear into Fox the past few weeks has been stupid tiresome.

Folks really can't help but hate on shit. Fox is an All-Star talent and we knew his finger was fucked before he even came here, what were people expecting?

I will say, though, I dislike the way he handled his exit from Sacto. I'm hoping it's just one of those "messy breakup" situations and doesn't speak to his (or his wife's) characters, but damn, there's real bad blood there now. One of my close friends is a Kings fan and he speaks very ill of Fox, from that cripto scam to his attitude this season.

Hopefully Wemby pulls his head outta his ass next season.

[exstatic]

Agreed. Watching people here tear into Fox the past few weeks has been stupid tiresome.

Folks really can't help but hate on shit. Fox is an All-Star talent and we knew his finger was fucked before he even came here, what were people expecting?

I will say, though, I dislike the way he handled his exit from Sacto. I'm hoping it's just one of those "messy breakup" situations and doesn't speak to his (or his wife's) characters, but damn, there's real bad blood there now. One of my close friends is a Kings fan and he speaks very ill of Fox, from that cripto scam to his attitude this season.

Hopefully Wemby pulls his head outta his ass next season.

Their fans will, of course, trash him. They don’t know what real betrayal is, though. He didn’t run off and hide from the team for a year.

[Sugus]

Their fans will, of course, trash him. They don’t know what real betrayal is, though. He didn’t run off and hide from the team for a year.

Of course, and agreed.

But OTOH -- that cripto scam bullshit is unarguably fan betrayal as well, considering Fox himself was advertising the scheme and thus Kings diehard fans were most likely to invest on it.

Maybe it's not "hiding from team staff in a hotel room" or "ask 7 different doctors outside of your teams' staff for a diagnosis" levels of shady/scummy, but it absolutely is a red flag and a valid thing for fans to be sore about.

I'm hoping Fox is behind that shit now or "learned his lesson" after the backlash, but given that he never (afaik) publicly addressed the incident, it's nothing but hope from a new fanbase here.

[exstatic]

Of course, and agreed.

But OTOH -- that cripto scam bullshit is unarguably fan betrayal as well, considering Fox himself was advertising the scheme and thus Kings diehard fans were most likely to invest on it.

Maybe it's not "hiding from team staff in a hotel room" or "ask 7 different doctors outside of your teams' staff for a diagnosis" levels of shady/scummy, but it absolutely is a red flag and a valid thing for fans to be sore about.

I'm hoping Fox is behind that shit now or "learned his lesson" after the backlash, but given that he never (afaik) publicly addressed the incident, it's nothing but hope from a new fanbase here.

My thought is to be an adult and realize that MOST crypto is a scam. That being said, it was probably wrong for him to be involved. He should have known better.

[baseline bum]

My thought is to be an adult and realize that ALL crypto is a scam. That being said, it was probably wrong for him to be involved. He should have known better.

fify

[Sugus]

My thought is to be an adult and realize that MOST crypto is a scam. That being said, it was probably wrong for him to be involved. He should have known better.

Oh, absolutely - I've never purchased crypto in my life and no plans to change that.

But framing it as "people should've known better than to get involved" is really victim-blaming when there's a star player/personality personally vouching for the project. It wasn't random people buying some meme-coin off delusions of grandeur; Fox himself was actively promoting the scam as a legit thing, and that's obviously going to sway people into it that otherwise wouldn't have gotten involved.

Funnily enough, the president of my country was recently caught spearheading the exact same crypto-scam (https://english.elpais.com/international/2025-02-24/mileis-iron-triangle-creaks-from-the-libra-cryptocurrency-scandal.html), and (of course) will face zero repercussions for it despite personally vouching for the project as well. Just scum, all around, and I hate to know that Fox was involved in this shit.

[spurs10]

Problem is that ORL and MIA can't win any games either. Hawks look like they have a pretty clear path to the #7 seed in the East.

On the flip side... I think TOR and the 7th lotto seed is more achievable than we think for the Spurs. We're 3 up in the W column versus the Raptors, but we still play them twice and TOR actually has a decent shot of catching CHI for the last play-in seed in the east. Keep and eye on this space. If we could just get BKN to also push for that play-in spot we'd have an outside shot at the #6 lotto seed, but I don't see that happening. #7 can be had though if we tank hard enough. Yeah sounds about right. I'm thinking 8 because we have some serious competition in the tank department out east. Jeez a lot of crap teams.

[Spurs Brazil]

Just lost to the Nets

[onechance87]

Good job nets

[exstatic]

Orlando also beat Cleveland, and is knocking on their back door, 1/2 game back.

[TXstbobcat]

Yeah sounds about right. I'm thinking 8 because we have some serious competition in the tank department out east. Jeez a lot of crap teams.

we got some help today with Portland taking down the Raptors.

also thank you to the Nets for taking down the Hawks and to the Cavaliers for their loss to the magic.

[TXstbobcat]

hoping we can get some more help tomorrow with the bulls playing the Jazz and Portland Playing the wizards.

[CGD]

Oh, absolutely - I've never purchased crypto in my life and no plans to change that.

But framing it as "people should've known better than to get involved" is really victim-blaming when there's a star player/personality personally vouching for the project. It wasn't random people buying some meme-coin off delusions of grandeur; Fox himself was actively promoting the scam as a legit thing, and that's obviously going to sway people into it that otherwise wouldn't have gotten involved.

Funnily enough, the president of my country was recently caught spearheading the exact same crypto-scam (https://english.elpais.com/international/2025-02-24/mileis-iron-triangle-creaks-from-the-libra-cryptocurrency-scandal.html), and (of course) will face zero repercussions for it despite personally vouching for the project as well. Just scum, all around, and I hate to know that Fox was involved in this shit.

Fox is the smallest of small celeb potatoes peddling that crap. Just look at the Super Bowl from a few years back— it was A list celebs peddling crypto to the masses.

[Dejounte]

Oh, absolutely - I've never purchased crypto in my life and no plans to change that.

But framing it as "people should've known better than to get involved" is really victim-blaming when there's a star player/personality personally vouching for the project. It wasn't random people buying some meme-coin off delusions of grandeur; Fox himself was actively promoting the scam as a legit thing, and that's obviously going to sway people into it that otherwise wouldn't have gotten involved.

Funnily enough, the president of my country was recently caught spearheading the exact same crypto-scam (https://english.elpais.com/international/2025-02-24/mileis-iron-triangle-creaks-from-the-libra-cryptocurrency-scandal.html), and (of course) will face zero repercussions for it despite personally vouching for the project as well. Just scum, all around, and I hate to know that Fox was involved in this shit.

Victim blaming like what’s happening with the US president and Ukraine?

[Ice009]

What is this Crypto thing? I've never heard of Fox being involved/scamming people?

[exstatic]

What is this Crypto thing? I've never heard of Fox being involved/scamming people?

Apparently, Sacto fans didn’t care until he left, and he wasn’t scamming people, but celebrity endorsed the wrong people’s crypto.

[Ice009]

OK, thanks. Doesn't sound like it was a big deal and that he was intentionally ripping people off (That's what one of the other posters made it sound like).

[exstatic]

OK, thanks. Doesn't sound like it was a big deal and that he was intentionally ripping people off (That's what one of the other posters made it sound like).

I think the Spurs did their due diligence.

[Joseph Kony]

Agreed. Watching people here tear into Fox the past few weeks has been stupid tiresome.

Folks really can't help but hate on shit. Fox is an All-Star talent and we knew his finger was fucked before he even came here, what were people expecting?

I will say, though, I dislike the way he handled his exit from Sacto. I'm hoping it's just one of those "messy breakup" situations and doesn't speak to his (or his wife's) characters, but damn, there's real bad blood there now. One of my close friends is a Kings fan and he speaks very ill of Fox, from that cripto scam to his attitude this season.

Hopefully Wemby pulls his head outta his ass next season.

i don't think there's a ton of bad blood between Fox and SAC, maybe the media there but not the fans. His comments upon exit mostly had to do with the FO handling of the coaching changes against his will and the fact that they allowed the media to paint a picture that Fox was the one who wanted Brown gone which clearly was false and they never bothered to rectify the situation. When Fox returned to SAC, he did get booed some, but by the end of the game those boos had basically died out, and he was given a standing ovation by the fans. i'm sure there are a few butthurt fans still whose minds will never change but overall I don't think there's too much bad blood between Fox and the kings fanbase

[Amuseddaysleeper]

i don't think there's a ton of bad blood between Fox and SAC, maybe the media there but not the fans. His comments upon exit mostly had to do with the FO handling of the coaching changes against his will and the fact that they allowed the media to paint a picture that Fox was the one who wanted Brown gone which clearly was false and they never bothered to rectify the situation. When Fox returned to SAC, he did get booed some, but by the end of the game those boos had basically died out, and he was given a standing ovation by the fans. i'm sure there are a few butthurt fans still whose minds will never change but overall I don't think there's too much bad blood between Fox and the kings fanbase

He was booed every time he touched the ball in SAC recently, lots of bad blood but not our problem

[exstatic]

He was booed every time he touched the ball in SAC recently, lots of bad blood but not our problem

Nothing like Kawhi here, seven years later. He was booed, but it was just a smattering.

[spurraider21]

He was booed every time he touched the ball in SAC recently, lots of bad blood but not our problem
that's not who they are

[dn0774]

They still gave him a good ovation when their tribute video played. It honestly seemed like a pretty healthy fan reaction. Booing a returning player who bailed is fine, they showed love too when prompted.

[Sugus]

Fox is the smallest of small celeb potatoes peddling that crap. Just look at the Super Bowl from a few years back— it was A list celebs peddling crypto to the masses.

I'm not in the slightest bit consoled by bigger pieces of shit promoting scam than Fox, tbh... "Mal de muchos, consuelo de tontos".


Victim blaming like what’s happening with the US president and Ukraine?

Hey! No politics upstairs! :lol ;)


Apparently, Sacto fans didn’t care until he left, and he wasn’t scamming people, but celebrity endorsed the wrong people’s crypto.

The story I read was that he (or a direct representative) was directly posting on a Discord server promoting the scam? I'm honestly willing to believe this story as I want to think Fox had as little involvement on it as possible, but it might as well just be fan copium. The most damning thing of it all is that I didn't see any sort of apology from Fox after it all went down - shady.

[Sugus]

I think the Spurs did their due diligence.

TBH, if I'm the Spurs, even if Fox was rug-pulling left and right, I'd still trade for him and count on a "talking-to" being the end of that shit. You don't pass up players of his caliber, at that price, unless the red flags are medical or way worse character concerns than that (wife-beating or the like).


i don't think there's a ton of bad blood between Fox and SAC, maybe the media there but not the fans. His comments upon exit mostly had to do with the FO handling of the coaching changes against his will and the fact that they allowed the media to paint a picture that Fox was the one who wanted Brown gone which clearly was false and they never bothered to rectify the situation. When Fox returned to SAC, he did get booed some, but by the end of the game those boos had basically died out, and he was given a standing ovation by the fans. i'm sure there are a few butthurt fans still whose minds will never change but overall I don't think there's too much bad blood between Fox and the kings fanbase

Really? I've actually seen plenty of fans very upset at Fox. Maybe it'll be water down the bridge in a couple years, but the fanbase as a whole seems pretty angry at Fox - and as much as I get Fox's side of the story and desire to leave Sacto and come play with Wemby.... Hard to blame them, tbh.

You also gotta think, as much as people say "well it wasn't a Kawhi-level betrayal!", they've never had a player like Kawhi. Fox was kind of a DeRozan to Toronto kind of star, a very iconic player and symbiotic relationship with the team.

Maybe it's mostly Internet noise, but my IRL Kings fan is pissed as fuck about his exit, for what it's worth.

[Sugus]

He was booed every time he touched the ball in SAC recently, lots of bad blood but not our problem

Yeah, hopefully everyone involved can turn the page after this season. Did y'all see the video with Fox's wife arguing with (Malik Monk?) after that SAC game? Seems like everyone involved could use an off-season to distance themselves.

[scott]

Really? I've actually seen plenty of fans very upset at Fox. Maybe it'll be water down the bridge in a couple years, but the fanbase as a whole seems pretty angry at Fox - and as much as I get Fox's side of the story and desire to leave Sacto and come play with Wemby.... Hard to blame them, tbh.

You also gotta think, as much as people say "well it wasn't a Kawhi-level betrayal!", they've never had a player like Kawhi. Fox was kind of a DeRozan to Toronto kind of star, a very iconic player and symbiotic relationship with the team.

Maybe it's mostly Internet noise, but my IRL Kings fan is pissed as fuck about his exit, for what it's worth.

I don't think online sentiment is at indicative of real life. There were a lot of Fox jerseys in the crowd for his return to SAC, he got a standing O during his tribute video and honestly the boos were pretty tame.

Surely there are some super fans who now make it their obsession to hate Fox, but I think casual Joe Kings fan is probably over it and rooting hard for Lavine and happy there are in the playoff picture.

[exstatic]

I'm not in the slightest bit consoled by bigger pieces of shit promoting scam than Fox, tbh... "Mal de muchos, consuelo de tontos".



Hey! No politics upstairs! :lol ;)



The story I read was that he (or a direct representative) was directly posting on a Discord server promoting the scam? I'm honestly willing to believe this story as I want to think Fox had as little involvement on it as possible, but it might as well just be fan copium. The most damning thing of it all is that I didn't see any sort of apology from Fox after it all went down - shady.

An apology is an admission of guilt after a sort, and there could be legal consequences.

[exstatic]

Yeah, hopefully everyone involved can turn the page after this season. Did y'all see the video with Fox's wife arguing with (Malik Monk?) after that SAC game? Seems like everyone involved could use an off-season to distance themselves.

Fox mentioned that there was a player, and he wouldn’t name him, who was working for a while to get MB fired. Monk may have just told on himself.

[Joseph Kony]

He was booed every time he touched the ball in SAC recently, lots of bad blood but not our problem
as i said in the comment you're quoting...yes they booed him initially but the boos were basically gone by the end of the game, and he got a standing ovation during his tribute video

[Joseph Kony]

Really? I've actually seen plenty of fans very upset at Fox. Maybe it'll be water down the bridge in a couple years, but the fanbase as a whole seems pretty angry at Fox - and as much as I get Fox's side of the story and desire to leave Sacto and come play with Wemby.... Hard to blame them, tbh.

You also gotta think, as much as people say "well it wasn't a Kawhi-level betrayal!", they've never had a player like Kawhi. Fox was kind of a DeRozan to Toronto kind of star, a very iconic player and symbiotic relationship with the team.

Maybe it's mostly Internet noise, but my IRL Kings fan is pissed as fuck about his exit, for what it's worth.

I mean you might be right, but i think its more internet noise than anything. admittedly i'm basing this off our game in Sacramento. Like i said, he definitely did get booed plenty at the beginning but as the game went on the fans were not booing him much and they gave him a standing ovation during the tribute video the team played for him. any fan base will probably be upset when a star wants out but i think the fans in Sactown are aware their FO is trash and i think they have some level of understanding Fox's position

[dn0774]

Kings fans know their Kangz history. I think they were annoyed how it went down but ultimately understand why Fox felt it was time to move on.

[Sugus]

I don't think online sentiment is at indicative of real life. There were a lot of Fox jerseys in the crowd for his return to SAC, he got a standing O during his tribute video and honestly the boos were pretty tame.

Surely there are some super fans who now make it their obsession to hate Fox, but I think casual Joe Kings fan is probably over it and rooting hard for Lavine and happy there are in the playoff picture.

Yeah, I know, I've only got the one friend to go off from, you're certainly right.

But tbqh, I don't know how any Kings fan, online or otherwise, can be happy at their current outlook... Glad it's not our problem nor future to have. I don't see a way for them to pivot from the Lavine / Sabonis core into any serious kind of contention.

[Sugus]

An apology is an admission of guilt after a sort, and there could be legal consequences.

Oh no! A millionaire player might be forced to face consequences and pay out some of the victims of the scam he helped facilitate!

I know what you mean, but still, what a disgusting state of affairs. I hope next season helps leave all this shit behind - the more I think on it, the less I like.


Fox mentioned that there was a player, and he wouldn’t name him, who was working for a while to get MB fired. Monk may have just told on himself.

Yeah, that interaction spoke volumes. On the one hand, great to see Fox's wife has a spine and is opinionated...... But that can easily go south if the cards don't play in their favor in the future. Certainly an interesting addition to the Spurs, who aren't really used to players with "baggage", especially since the Nephew fiasco.

[scott]

Yeah, I know, I've only got the one friend to go off from, you're certainly right.

But tbqh, I don't know how any Kings fan, online or otherwise, can be happy at their current outlook... Glad it's not our problem nor future to have. I don't see a way for them to pivot from the Lavine / Sabonis core into any serious kind of contention.

Honestly I kind of feel a connection to Kings fans as another small market franchise and I feel bad for them. I spent a lot of time in the Kings reddit when the Fox rumors first started circulating last fall, and I've got an employee from Sacramento who is a die hard fan who I enjoy talking hoops with. They are completely resigned to mediocracy. There is just no expectation or ambition to go beyond... years of the lottery has really driven them to just be okay with the occasional playoff appearance, kind of like what I assume being a Cleveland Browns fan must be like.

I'm so happy we have a rich history that bucks this kind of experience and that we've been blessed by the basketball gods with generational talents to keep us pushing for the top of the sport, instead of just being happy with the typical small market outcomes.

[Sugus]

Honestly I kind of feel a connection to Kings fans as another small market franchise and I feel bad for them. I spent a lot of time in the Kings reddit when the Fox rumors first started circulating last fall, and I've got an employee from Sacramento who is a die hard fan who I enjoy talking hoops with. They are completely resigned to mediocracy. There is just no expectation or ambition to go beyond... years of the lottery has really driven them to just be okay with the occasional playoff appearance, kind of like what I assume being a Cleveland Browns fan must be like.

I'm so happy we have a rich history that bucks this kind of experience and that we've been blessed by the basketball gods with generational talents to keep us pushing for the top of the sport, instead of just being happy with the typical small market outcomes.

Man, do I feel you. I'm in exactly the same position, I really would like to see the Kings succeed. My friend has been a basketball fan since the Sabonis (father!) days, and pretty much stuck to the Kings since their inception... Nothing but pain to show for it.

Hearing some of their stories really, really puts into perspective how fucking spoiled we Spurs fans are. Any Kings fan would give an arm and a leg for a title run like 2014... And here we are, 10 years later, with another generational prospect falling into our laps, while their star player demands out of their team to come play in San Antonio.

I can't be mad at even the most vitriolic of their fans. That level of mediocrity can break just about anybody. I also remember my friend being devastated about the Haliburton trade ("another fucking Kings move setting us back a decade!!"). I don't know what he makes of the trade now, but it's gotta be such a shitty feeling to consistently expect the absolute worst out of your team's FO, and be proven right time and time again. Oh, and the Luka fiasco......... Jesus.

People bitching about PATFO really have no idea how bad it can be. I know it sounds apologist or whatever, but you really gotta appreciate a stable front office and having a direction as a franchise. We take that shit for granted.

[baseline bum]

Honestly I kind of feel a connection to Kings fans as another small market franchise and I feel bad for them. I spent a lot of time in the Kings reddit when the Fox rumors first started circulating last fall, and I've got an employee from Sacramento who is a die hard fan who I enjoy talking hoops with. They are completely resigned to mediocracy. There is just no expectation or ambition to go beyond... years of the lottery has really driven them to just be okay with the occasional playoff appearance, kind of like what I assume being a Cleveland Browns fan must be like.

I'm so happy we have a rich history that bucks this kind of experience and that we've been blessed by the basketball gods with generational talents to keep us pushing for the top of the sport, instead of just being happy with the typical small market outcomes.


Man, do I feel you. I'm in exactly the same position, I really would like to see the Kings succeed. My friend has been a basketball fan since the Sabonis (father!) days, and pretty much stuck to the Kings since their inception... Nothing but pain to show for it.

Hearing some of their stories really, really puts into perspective how fucking spoiled we Spurs fans are. Any Kings fan would give an arm and a leg for a title run like 2014... And here we are, 10 years later, with another generational prospect falling into our laps, while their star player demands out of their team to come play in San Antonio.

I can't be mad at even the most vitriolic of their fans. That level of mediocrity can break just about anybody. I also remember my friend being devastated about the Haliburton trade ("another fucking Kings move setting us back a decade!!"). I don't know what he makes of the trade now, but it's gotta be such a shitty feeling to consistently expect the absolute worst out of your team's FO, and be proven right time and time again. Oh, and the Luka fiasco......... Jesus.

People bitching about PATFO really have no idea how bad it can be. I know it sounds apologist or whatever, but you really gotta appreciate a stable front office and having a direction as a franchise. We take that shit for granted.

Gotta be maddening. And then when they had a team they had the fucking Lakers on the ropes only for Bavetta to steal their championship away in Game 6. I mean WTF foul on Bibby for catching Kobe's elbow to his face? Then CWebb blows out his knee the next year and window sealed shut on one of the greatest teams to never go all the way. I very much fear that Holt Jr + Dell + McCombs family aren't gonna be any better than Ranadive though. Red was the shittiest owner this team ever had and Dell is one of the scummiest tech companies out there these days. Holt Sr was amazing but Holt Jr is so far untested when it comes to paying to put together and keep together a winner. Really hope he's not going to be another Jimmy Buss and will be the kind of great owner his pops was.

[scott]

Gotta be maddening. And then when they had a team they had the fucking Lakers on the ropes only for Bavetta to steal their championship away in Game 6. I mean WTF foul on Bibby for catching Kobe's elbow to his face? Then CWebb blows out his knee the next year and window sealed shut on one of the greatest teams to never go all the way. I very much fear that Holt Jr + Dell + McCombs family aren't gonna be any better than Ranadive though. Red was the shittiest owner this team ever had and Dell is one scummiest tech companies out there these days. Holt Sr was amazing but Holt Jr is so far untested when it comes to paying to put together and keep together a winner. Really hope he's not going to be another Jimmy Buss and will be the kind of great owner his pops was.

My fear is that with all the new, non-local financial partners in the Spurs, they run the organization according to a strict profit & loss business model, where winning titles isn't necessarily the way to optimize profit.

Back in the good times, the Spurs were backed by strong local companies like Valero who didn't need the Spurs to turn a profit, they were just supporting the local team. But now we have Sixth Street Partners, Dell, the co-founder of AirBnB is now an investor, etc. These folks don't give a fuck about San Antonio - this is just an investment for them. I saw Kimberly Lewis from KSL joined the ownership group... that might be one of the better additions that keeps them grounded to San Antonio. I have no clue if Valero still has their ownership stake.

It would be nice to actually get to know Peter Holt Jr. What's been his role other than show up for the Wemby lottery draw? Maybe he's savvy AF. Or maybe he's a complete failson. Who knows.

[baseline bum]

My fear is that with all the new, non-local financial partners in the Spurs, they run the organization according to a strict profit & loss business model, where winning titles isn't necessarily the way to optimize profit.

Back in the good times, the Spurs were backed by strong local companies like Valero who didn't need the Spurs to turn a profit, they were just supporting the local team. But now we have Sixth Street Partners, Dell, the co-founder of AirBnB is now an investor, etc. These folks don't give a fuck about San Antonio - this is just an investment for them. I saw Kimberly Lewis from KSL joined the ownership group... that might be one of the better additions that keeps them grounded to San Antonio. I have no clue if Valero still has their ownership stake.

It would be nice to actually get to know Peter Holt Jr. What's been his role other than show up for the Wemby lottery draw? Maybe he's savvy AF. Or maybe he's a complete failson. Who knows.

McCombs goes to show you local doesn't necessarily mean good either though. Ugh hate seeing private equity parasites owning so much of the team.

[exstatic]

Man, do I feel you. I'm in exactly the same position, I really would like to see the Kings succeed. My friend has been a basketball fan since the Sabonis (father!) days, and pretty much stuck to the Kings since their inception... Nothing but pain to show for it.

Hearing some of their stories really, really puts into perspective how fucking spoiled we Spurs fans are. Any Kings fan would give an arm and a leg for a title run like 2014... And here we are, 10 years later, with another generational prospect falling into our laps, while their star player demands out of their team to come play in San Antonio.

I can't be mad at even the most vitriolic of their fans. That level of mediocrity can break just about anybody. I also remember my friend being devastated about the Haliburton trade ("another fucking Kings move setting us back a decade!!"). I don't know what he makes of the trade now, but it's gotta be such a shitty feeling to consistently expect the absolute worst out of your team's FO, and be proven right time and time again. Oh, and the Luka fiasco......... Jesus.

People bitching about PATFO really have no idea how bad it can be. I know it sounds apologist or whatever, but you really gotta appreciate a stable front office and having a direction as a franchise. We take that shit for granted.

You’ve just summed up Spurstalk, in a nutshell.

[scott]

Man, do I feel you. I'm in exactly the same position, I really would like to see the Kings succeed. My friend has been a basketball fan since the Sabonis (father!) days, and pretty much stuck to the Kings since their inception... Nothing but pain to show for it.

Hearing some of their stories really, really puts into perspective how fucking spoiled we Spurs fans are. Any Kings fan would give an arm and a leg for a title run like 2014... And here we are, 10 years later, with another generational prospect falling into our laps, while their star player demands out of their team to come play in San Antonio.

I can't be mad at even the most vitriolic of their fans. That level of mediocrity can break just about anybody. I also remember my friend being devastated about the Haliburton trade ("another fucking Kings move setting us back a decade!!"). I don't know what he makes of the trade now, but it's gotta be such a shitty feeling to consistently expect the absolute worst out of your team's FO, and be proven right time and time again. Oh, and the Luka fiasco......... Jesus.

People bitching about PATFO really have no idea how bad it can be. I know it sounds apologist or whatever, but you really gotta appreciate a stable front office and having a direction as a franchise. We take that shit for granted.

Perhaps, but I'd prefer "well it could be worse" to not be the justification for continued subpar performance (this applies universally, not just to my sports allegiances)

[heyheymymy]

McCombs goes to show you local doesn't necessarily mean good either though. Ugh hate seeing private equity parasites owning so much of the team.

Especially after the Dallas Mavericks fiasco really hammers home this is the billionaire's world and we all just live in it. PE money always pours in right before shitty changes that ruin everything start happening. So scared the Spurs financial backing will pull some future stunt that harms the basketball product or experience in some big way.

[Sugus]

Perhaps, but I'd prefer "well it could be worse" to not be the justification for continued subpar performance (this applies universally, not just to my sports allegiances)

I do agree, and I honestly have to agree with the overall sentiment from other commenters regarding foreign investor interest in the Spurs (and any other team).

We certainly can't act like it's never gonna happen after what Dallas just went through. I generally like the moves and direction of the FO/team, but it's a "never say never" world.


Having said that though, in the general context of our conversation, I took the entirety of the Spurs' recent tenure in consideration when saying that -- I don't think it's fair to judge them wrongly based on possible future mistakes, and they've certainly been a top-of-the-league franchise for the last few decades. Given Spurstalk has been Bitchin' & Moanin' about the FO ever since you've been around the forum, I certainly think most people take that for granted, and don't think "well it could be worse" is a fair valuation of the team staff at all.

I'd say a team like Miami is more of a "well it could be worse" in that sense, generally positive moves but a fair bit of significant blunders to stain them as well. Can you imagine Spurstalk's reaction if Pop was half as arrogant as Pat Riley and chased superstars out of town? Yeah....

[baseline bum]

I do agree, and I honestly have to agree with the overall sentiment from other commenters regarding foreign investor interest in the Spurs (and any other team).

We certainly can't act like it's never gonna happen after what Dallas just went through. I generally like the moves and direction of the FO/team, but it's a "never say never" world.


Having said that though, in the general context of our conversation, I took the entirety of the Spurs' recent tenure in consideration when saying that -- I don't think it's fair to judge them wrongly based on possible future mistakes, and they've certainly been a top-of-the-league franchise for the last few decades. Given Spurstalk has been Bitchin' & Moanin' about the FO ever since you've been around the forum, I certainly think most people take that for granted, and don't think "well it could be worse" is a fair valuation of the team staff at all.

I'd say a team like Miami is more of a "well it could be worse" in that sense, generally positive moves but a fair bit of significant blunders to stain them as well. Can you imagine Spurstalk's reaction if Pop was half as arrogant as Pat Riley and chased superstars out of town? Yeah....

You're not American right? You probably haven't had a front row seat to the way private equity has been looting our nation then the way we have in the US. So seeing these kind of vultures as owners of the Spurs is scary, they will nickel and dime everything and give no fucks about the community just like the Adelson harpy in Dallas.

I'll just post a few examples though there are many many many others:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkH1dpr-p_4


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KZkEv1CHgE


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5PLEZiSZVw

[scott]

I do agree, and I honestly have to agree with the overall sentiment from other commenters regarding foreign investor interest in the Spurs (and any other team).

We certainly can't act like it's never gonna happen after what Dallas just went through. I generally like the moves and direction of the FO/team, but it's a "never say never" world.


Having said that though, in the general context of our conversation, I took the entirety of the Spurs' recent tenure in consideration when saying that -- I don't think it's fair to judge them wrongly based on possible future mistakes, and they've certainly been a top-of-the-league franchise for the last few decades. Given Spurstalk has been Bitchin' & Moanin' about the FO ever since you've been around the forum, I certainly think most people take that for granted, and don't think "well it could be worse" is a fair valuation of the team staff at all.

I'd say a team like Miami is more of a "well it could be worse" in that sense, generally positive moves but a fair bit of significant blunders to stain them as well. Can you imagine Spurstalk's reaction if Pop was half as arrogant as Pat Riley and chased superstars out of town? Yeah....

This is where I take pride in only being a recent "PATFO hater". I was happy to be a sniffer when the aromas were pleasant. I will never take away from that beautifully fragrant rose garden... my complaints over the stench are only meant to encompass the time period in which our rose garden has had a thick layer of manure. With that said, I do hope that this recently abundant layer of chicken shit is like all fertilizer, a temporary stink in order to foster future growth.

I feel like I've beaten this analogy to death enough now :lol

[scott]

I'd say a team like Miami is more of a "well it could be worse" in that sense, generally positive moves but a fair bit of significant blunders to stain them as well. Can you imagine Spurstalk's reaction if Pop was half as arrogant as Pat Riley and chased superstars out of town? Yeah....

Well... Pop is arrogant enough to hold the team hostage while he learns how to walk again... so... I'm not quite ready to take a victory lap over Riley.

(hit reply on my previous post before I could address this one)

[rascal]

Charlotte tanking tonight by sitting players.

[Sugus]

You're not American right? You probably haven't had a front row seat to the way private equity has been looting our nation then the way we have in the US. So seeing these kind of vultures as owners of the Spurs is scary, they will nickel and dime everything and give no fucks about the community just like the Adelson harpy in Dallas.

I'll just post a few examples though there are many many many others:

Indeed I'm not - thanks for the content recs! Will give them a watch... Though I'm familiar with the gist of the system (and you'd be surprised at just how much of American culture and happenings are obnoxiously plastered all over, y'all are hard to miss :lol).

You poked my interest, though; is there some stat or recollection as to how many NBA teams are "private-equity-owned", and to which percentage? I'd love to see numbers of this and see how the trend has grown in recent years. I've never paid attention to the Spurs' sponsors besides Frost, so I'm a bit out of the loop here.

[Sugus]

This is where I take pride in only being a recent "PATFO hater". I was happy to be a sniffer when the aromas were pleasant. I will never take away from that beautifully fragrant rose garden... my complaints over the stench are only meant to encompass the time period in which our rose garden has had a thick layer of manure. With that said, I do hope that this recently abundant layer of chicken shit is like all fertilizer, a temporary stink in order to foster future growth.

I feel like I've beaten this analogy to death enough now :lol

Haha, I share your hopes, and get your POV. Honestly the Fox trade is the kind of move that really points to the FO having the "right idea", but we'll have to watch the chickens hatch before we count the eggs... Or the flowers grow from the manure, if you'd rather :lol


Well... Pop is arrogant enough to hold the team hostage while he learns how to walk again... so... I'm not quite ready to take a victory lap over Riley.

(hit reply on my previous post before I could address this one)

Hmmmmm, I don't think that's a fair comparison though. You know I'm also in the "take the keys away" camp, but I don't think Pop trying to work himself towards an (ill-advised, sure) return to what he believes is still-competent coaching is anywhere near trying to strong-arm your most valuable players, mafia-boss style, and losing them in the process, throwing your entire team and organization into a rebuild..... multiple times.

Like, even worst-case scenario, Pop is only "holding hostages" (pretty extreme) for a season. How many years was Miami set back after DWade left due to rifts with Riley? And then after LeBron left because Riley wouldn't give him his fucking chocolate cookies? And now again, publicly shaming Butler and driving him out of town? The Heat are pretty much looking at another rebuild unless a Big Market Miracle happens to them again (which I'm giving Riley no credit for, even if it does).

You can't seriously compare plunging your team into full rebuilds with Pop's situation, especially considering it's a stroke that sidelined Pop, nothing to blame him for. At least IMO, of course.

[KobesAchilles]

Heavy is the head that wears the crown. And tbh there was plenty of reason to bitch and moan during the Duncan years. Like we never got a back up PG during that span. We had the cheapest centers ever and we had no back up plan at all once Finley and Berry got washed. I mean we did trade Dragic and Barbosa and who could ever forget us trading away the greatest basketball player of all time in Scola :lol

That said, I want my cake and eat it too this year when it comes to criticism. Bc I have no idea how to fix the team going forward. I can give my 2 cents on it. But I really don’t know what we can do going forward bc there are so many damn options and I have no idea which one is the best. As long as the Spurs don’t stand pat then I’m good either way whatever it is that we do.

We need a coach. I don’t know who it could be. I know how I want us to take coaching. Go all in with top of the line everything. Offer the top assistant from either Memphis or Minny and pay him $7 million to be our coach. And then poach and poach and poach from the Cavs, Celtics, and Pistons. All of these teams have young talent that they have quickly developed and that’s what we have/need.

Draft: again I have no idea. My dream is either Flagg or Bailey. But I would focus one pick on shooting and the other on athletic big man. No guards please or nobody under 6’7 (Bailey is 6’10). But again I have no idea who we should pick. I will have more of an idea in June the week before the draft.

FA and trades and cuts: we have money! Let’s use it. But for who? Idk. Do we put all our eggs in Naz Reid? Do we sign Portis? Can we trade Vassell for Randle? Would #16 Josh Giddey look good for our bench unit alongside Aldama with his basketball smarts? Do we re-sign CP3 for the back up role? Can Branham and Wesley just be cut already? Do we trade away KJ for a SRP? What championship veteran end of the line bench players are there? Bc I’m tired of seeing happiness after losing games and goofing off with opposing teams after the beat the brakes off of us (looking at you Sochan). Who are the guys that are going to give us professionalism? All these questions I again don’t have the answer for it.

But a CP3, Giddy, Aldama, Sochan and draft pick sounds like a formidable bench to me. With Barnes, Portis, Wemby, Castle, and Fox as our starters. And the Minny assistant as ours with every top poached coach we can.

[exstatic]

Fucking Charlotte sat EVEYONE!

[exstatic]

Heavy is the head that wears the crown. And tbh there was plenty of reason to bitch and moan during the Duncan years. Like we never got a back up PG during that span. We had the cheapest centers ever and we had no back up plan at all once Finley and Berry got washed. I mean we did trade Dragic and Barbosa and who could ever forget us trading away the greatest basketball player of all time in Scola :lol

That said, I want my cake and eat it too this year when it comes to criticism. Bc I have no idea how to fix the team going forward. I can give my 2 cents on it. But I really don’t know what we can do going forward bc there are so many damn options and I have no idea which one is the best. As long as the Spurs don’t stand pat then I’m good either way whatever it is that we do.

We need a coach. I don’t know who it could be. I know how I want us to take coaching. Go all in with top of the line everything. Offer the top assistant from either Memphis or Minny and pay him $7 million to be our coach. And then poach and poach and poach from the Cavs, Celtics, and Pistons. All of these teams have young talent that they have quickly developed and that’s what we have/need.

Draft: again I have no idea. My dream is either Flagg or Bailey. But I would focus one pick on shooting and the other on athletic big man. No guards please or nobody under 6’7 (Bailey is 6’10). But again I have no idea who we should pick. I will have more of an idea in June the week before the draft.

FA and trades and cuts: we have money! Let’s use it. But for who? Idk. Do we put all our eggs in Naz Reid? Do we sign Portis? Can we trade Vassell for Randle? Would #16 Josh Giddey look good for our bench unit alongside Aldama with his basketball smarts? Do we re-sign CP3 for the back up role? Can Branham and Wesley just be cut already? Do we trade away KJ for a SRP? What championship veteran end of the line bench players are there? Bc I’m tired of seeing happiness after losing games and goofing off with opposing teams after the beat the brakes off of us (looking at you Sochan). Who are the guys that are going to give us professionalism? All these questions I again don’t have the answer for it.

But a CP3, Giddy, Aldama, Sochan and draft pick sounds like a formidable bench to me. With Barnes, Portis, Wemby, Castle, and Fox as our starters. And the Minny assistant as ours with every top poached coach we can.

:rollin Spurs will never sign a fucking psycho like Bobby Portis.

[KobesAchilles]

:rollin Spurs will never sign a fucking psycho like Bobby Portis.
Why is he a pyscho? What did I miss?

[LeBowen]

Why is he a pyscho? What did I miss?

He broke Mirotic's face and he had quite a few flagrant incidents during games.

[exstatic]

He broke Mirotic's face and he had quite a few flagrant incidents during games.

Yeah, hospitalized his teammate.

[Kevin]

Next years Hawks pick will also boil down to the play-in unfortunately.

Heat blew it up this season, 76ers might blow it up or Embid might be done either way Philly wont be very good next year, the Bucks are worth monitoring with Giannis and so much of the eastern figures to be bad to mediocre like the Nets, Bulls, Raps, Hornets.

The Golden Ticket theory continues to be a dubious. The east is stacked in reverse standings.

[RC_Drunkford]

The 27 pick might hit if Ice Trae decides to terminate his contract

[Kevin]

Yeah the 27 pick or a Trae Young season ending injury is the real hope. 25 and 26 picks are looking bleak.

[LeBowen]

The 27 pick might hit if Ice Trae decides to terminate his contract

Hawks new front office seems to be competent.
Trae's option is for 26-27 season, that situation will be resolved this summer.
He'll either opt out and get and extension or get traded. Hawks won't let him walk for nothing because it's not like having one more year of Trae and knowing he'll walk after it would be worth anything.

[exstatic]

The 27 pick might hit if Ice Trae decides to terminate his contract

If he decides he’s not going to stay,they’ll need to move him THIS summer, likely improving the swap for 2026. In fact, the way teams seem to be operating these days if he’s even non-commital,they’ll flip him rather than lose him for nothing.

[KobesAchilles]

He broke Mirotic's face and he had quite a few flagrant incidents during games.
Did a quick google search and that was like 8 years ago. Also it said that Mirotic charged him first. But I think I want a tough guy like that on our team to defend Wemby. Toughness and attitude on this team would be a welcome sight seeing as we only have two players with that in our franchise player and CP3.

I think he brings defense and rebounding and doesn’t need the ball. Plus his three point percentage is higher than Sochans with more than double Sochans makes. He’s everything we want Sochan to eventually be. I wouldn’t mind offering him the full MLE.

Again I’m not saying I have the answers to fix the team. But Portis and Giddy would both fit well on this team.

[The Truth #6]

You're not American right? You probably haven't had a front row seat to the way private equity has been looting our nation then the way we have in the US. So seeing these kind of vultures as owners of the Spurs is scary, they will nickel and dime everything and give no fucks about the community just like the Adelson harpy in Dallas.

I'll just post a few examples though there are many many many others:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkH1dpr-p_4


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KZkEv1CHgE


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5PLEZiSZVw

I agree about the evils of private equity. Finding new markets to create and exploit. I lost my job due to that.

If I had to guess, the money for PE in the NBA could be in the new arena/eminent domain scam of building arenas with housing and retail space, basically real estate development piggy backing on NBA fans and local tax base subsidizing it. But I imagine there are other aspects to it I'm unaware of.

[LeBowen]

Did a quick google search and that was like 8 years ago. Also it said that Mirotic charged him first. But I think I want a tough guy like that on our team to defend Wemby. Toughness and attitude on this team would be a welcome sight seeing as we only have two players with that in our franchise player and CP3.

I think he brings defense and rebounding and doesn’t need the ball. Plus his three point percentage is higher than Sochans with more than double Sochans makes. He’s everything we want Sochan to eventually be. I wouldn’t mind offering him the full MLE.

Again I’m not saying I have the answers to fix the team. But Portis and Giddy would both fit well on this team.

If we're talking basketball fit, he would've been a solid option a couple of years ago, he's on a decline and Bucks tried to get rid of him.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6oQ5tGPiJw

I'm not sure CP3 would've approved of Portis. :lol

Giddey? Why would we add another questionable defender with no jumpshot?