Phoenix Suns expect to part ways with Kevin Durant this offseason. Could the Spurs be a good landing place?

[baseline bum]

Tried to tell everyone the Suns weren't gonna get shit for KD. One first and a grab bag of scrubs and seconds is about what I expected.

[Ice009]

So in 2029, do the Rockets have two first round picks? The two most favourable of those three listed?

[dubross]

So in 2029, do the Rockets have two first round picks? The two most favourable of those three listed?

yes

[3&D_TBH]

I just watched the locked on suns podcast and they are livid about their return. Haha

[baseline bum]

I just watched the locked on suns podcast and they are livid about their return. Haha

It was obvious months ago that the return would be something like this. KD had so much more value at the deadline where you would have gotten another playoff run out of him if you were Houston. Maybe then they could have squeezed a second first out of it. Not one of their own but maybe a worst of the two Rockets picks in 2029 for example.

[CGD]

I just watched the locked on suns podcast and they are livid about their return. Haha

Honestly I’d be pissed that they couldn’t even pry Jimmer away.

[LeBowen]

It was obvious months ago that the return would be something like this. KD had so much more value at the deadline where you would have gotten another playoff run out of him if you were Houston. Maybe then they could have squeezed a second first out of it. Not one of their own but maybe a worst of the two Rockets picks in 2029 for example.

Even if the offer was the same, they could've tanked after the deadline and would've better lottery odds.
But it's impossible to reason with a person that doesn't want tobe reasoned with. In this case Ishbia who's going to burn that franchise to the ground.

[KobesAchilles]

Goddamn are you a crybaby. They made their big move in the middle of the season. Goddamn. What the fuck kind of shakeup do you fucking want? Lauri Markannen? Lmfao. This team is making the playoffs next year. Jesus Christ.
One that makes the playoffs. I thought that was obvious. I’m tired of all the excuses for this team. So yes until this team makes the actual playoffs I will continue to cry and complain.

[Mr. Body]

One that makes the playoffs. I thought that was obvious. I’m tired of all the excuses for this team. So yes until this team makes the actual playoffs I will continue to cry and complain.

Man you're like a toddler. Just go away and come back a year from now. Go fill a swimming pool with your tears. Goddamn.

[SpursFan86]

1936907887198294375

For those curious about what the Spurs’ actual offer was…turns out they (reportedly) didn’t even make one :lol

[Mr. Body]

1936907887198294375 (https://x.com/gambo987/status/1936907887198294375?s=46&t=7J7PSnY8RJS8_UemWCmgcA)

For those curious about what the Spurs’ actual offer was…turns out they (apparently) didn’t even make one.

Ah, the Michael Corleone.

[LeBowen]

We're batck at we like what we have. :pop:

[vy65]

1936907887198294375

For those curious about what the Spurs’ actual offer was…turns out they (reportedly) didn’t even make one :lol

wtf

[scott]

1936907887198294375

For those curious about what the Spurs’ actual offer was…turns out they (reportedly) didn’t even make one :lol

Brian Wright was reading this thread just laughing at everyone the whole time

[TimDunkem]

Great. Now let's pivot to trading our trash + 14 to clear space and move up in the draft.

[Chomag]

Spurs didn't even make an offer? Jesus this FO sometimes lol

[LeBowen]

I'm sure Wright would've offered Keldon, maybe even Devin.
If Suns said it's not happening without Castle or #2, Wright hung up and that was the end of it.

[scott]

This has reinforced something we already knew: Brian Wright isn't going to make a deal where he has to overpay. And I can appreciate that about him.

[Mal]

You at least had to made the call with Vassell, Barnes,#14 and gazillion 2nds.

[KobesAchilles]

Man you're like a toddler. Just go away and come back a year from now. Go fill a swimming pool with your tears. Goddamn.
Sure. I’m going to go away bc some guy named Mr. Body says so. I mean you are the guy who tells people to kill themselves so I guess this is progress. If the Spurs don’t make the playoffs again will you be gone forever? Bc you said last year that we are making it and we didn’t

[LeBowen]

You at least had to made the call with Vassell, Barnes,#14 and gazillion 2nds.

#10 > #14
Green > Vassell, even with the playoff struggles. At least he's always healthy.
Brooks > Barnes

We would've had to add another unprotected FRP or Jeremy and a bad FRP to that offer to make the Suns seriously consider it.

[Teamduncan21]

Gambo is kinda full of crap though. He is the one who said trade is imminent revolving around Devin, Barnes, and pick. Now he is saying there wasn't even an offer.

He does know something here and there but he makes up the remaining of the story that sometimes contradicts himself

[Ice009]

:lol That is crazy if the Spurs didn't make an offer at all. Maybe they could have gotten a deal done before Houston even came up with their final offer if they actually put an offer in. I doubt they didn't put an offer in at all, though. That guy's gotta be full of crap.

[Uriel]

1936907887198294375

For those curious about what the Spurs’ actual offer was…turns out they (reportedly) didn’t even make one :lol
Weren’t there already credible reports from national reporters that the Spurs did make an offer but the Suns weren’t satisfied?

[Mr. Body]

Sure. I’m going to go away bc some guy named Mr. Body says so. I mean you are the guy who tells people to kill themselves so I guess this is progress. If the Spurs don’t make the playoffs again will you be gone forever? Bc you said last year that we are making it and we didn’t

You're not worth telling to kill himself. You're just a whining infant, lol.

OMG the Spurs waaaaah.

[ace3g]

https://x.com/sam_amick/status/1936903390396919899

[TimDunkem]

Weren’t there already credible reports from national reporters that the Spurs did make an offer but the Suns weren’t satisfied?

Credible sources and ST poo poos them.

Some random dork named Gambadoro says it never happened, and ST immediately believes it.

[Mr. Body]

https://x.com/sam_amick/status/1936903390396919899

I don't think people know what all-in means anymore

[FkLA]

1936907887198294375

For those curious about what the Spurs’ actual offer was…turns out they (reportedly) didn’t even make one :lol

Unwarranted arrogance from a franchise still living off of the greatness of the great Timothy Theodore Duncan smh

[DPG21920]

Durant could theoretically bust in HOU and it was still a fine risk/reward for HOU. Even if things go bad with KD HOU has a ton of firsts and lots of young talent.

[Jordan Jackson]

Spurs fans underestimated the Power of Friendship. It’s going to take a whole lot to break that up. The front office will continue to bend this roster to find a fit for those dudes.

[cd98]

1936907887198294375

For those curious about what the Spurs’ actual offer was…turns out they (reportedly) didn’t even make one :lol

Hmmm, well one of these twitter fiends owes us an explanation of why it was reported repeatedly that they were making low ball offers. If the Suns fed that to the media, then why would San Antonio not refute it? Maybe they wanted the Rockets to give up more? I mean, I don't think it worked. They basically pulled a Scola again.

[NASpurs]

I don't really care that we missed out on KD. Like I said before, I just don't want some of carryover losers still on our team. If I have to watch Vassell summoning his inner Kobe on every fucking shot next season...

Either change your game or GTFO

[cd98]

Durant could theoretically bust in HOU and it was still a fine risk/reward for HOU. Even if things go bad with KD HOU has a ton of firsts and lots of young talent.

Well the beauty for Houston is that even if he did tear an ACL or have some other significant injury, if they even extend him, they can just trade him with one of their many great picks and they got plenty to rebuild. They don't even care about Green and he was a guaranteed trade this offseason one way or another.

[DAF86]

Unwarranted arrogance from a franchise still living off of the greatness of the great Timothy Theodore Duncan smh

Meh, don't sweat it. The Suns got more from the Rockets than anything the Spurs could have offered without overpaying, so it's all good in my eyes. Unless you were willing to offer another first round pick (which would have been a mistake), the Spurs weren't beating the Rockets' offer.

[WaywardTexan]

Hmmm, well one of these twitter fiends owes us an explanation of why it was reported repeatedly that they were making low ball offers.

No offer is the lowest of balls

[Mal]

#10 > #14
Green > Vassell, even with the playoff struggles. At least he's always healthy.
Brooks > Barnes

We would've had to add another unprotected FRP or Jeremy and a bad FRP to that offer to make the Suns seriously consider it.

Just make the call, Suns had every right to tell Wright to fuck off.

[KobesAchilles]

You're not worth telling to kill himself. You're just a whining infant, lol.

OMG the Spurs waaaaah.
You do realize the first part of your post isn’t an actual insult. Telling someone that they aren’t worth telling to kill themself is actually a good thing. The whining infant part also isn’t really an insult either. I’m past kindergarten.

I will do a better job with you. If the Spurs make the playoffs this season I will quit Spurstalk for a year. If they don’t then you quit Spurstalk for a year. Deal?

[Atl Spur]

Spurs sat and let everyone who loves talking talk; people who tend to have so much to say usually are talking to much! The spurs will make some moves I’m sure but are less pressed after the stroke of draft luck.

[MannyIsGod]

Good news. Spurs weren't really at a stage were giving up true assets for a 37 years old player made sense. They should suround the Fox/Harper/Castle/Wembanyama core with the right role players. I also wouldn't be surprised if Spurs' FO think that Vassell and Sochan belong to that right role player crew.

This is here I'm at. I do hope they move 14 for more immediate help, but unless Durant was going to take a substantial pay cut and unless the price was right then then whatever. You get Durant if it makes you a contendor the next year or two, and I just have a hard time visiualizing that as the Spurs timeline. And if through half of the season that IS what is happening becuase players have taken leaps, then you make a deal at the deadline. The Spurs are asset rich and just need to make sure they stay that way with flexibility until they are ready to make a big splash trade. The Spurs are primed for a decade of being amazing - no need to blow that up now because we lose patience.

[Mr. Body]

You do realize the first part of your post isn’t an actual insult. Telling someone that they aren’t worth telling to kill themself is actually a good thing. The whining infant part also isn’t really an insult either. I’m past kindergarten.

I will do a better job with you. If the Spurs make the playoffs this season I will quit Spurstalk for a year. If they don’t then you quit Spurstalk for a year. Deal?

I don't care if you quit or not. It's just amazing how people come on here and bitch and whine about the Spurs needing to make big moves and shake things up when they traded for De'Aaron Fox during the season. I'm very serious about this: what the fuck is wrong with you? Is it brain damage? Or are you, like, a bot programmed to just spit out the same shit no matter what happens?

[MannyIsGod]

With the addition of Harper, Keldon becomes redundant because his game revolves around attacking the rim.
He's a horrible defender and a pretty bad shooter.
Great locker room presence, but we don't need his skillset anymore.

Devin is an inconsistent chucker, but I guess our front office still has hopes that he'll get his shit together. In theory he's a great off the ball player and could be a decent enough defender.

Jeremy is a very good defender, potentially elite and a huge negative on offense. But he's not a negative asset until we see his extension.

This is crazy. We need multiple players with the skillset that they can get to the rim and create shots. Especially off the bench. We desprately needed more of that last year and now we have that and y'all want to revert to where we were at before. I'm not saying we should keep or trade Johnson, but the idea that we got one more guy who can get to the bucket and now we somehow have a surplus of that skill is wild.

[MannyIsGod]

Either way this coming season is not a development season. It is a make the fucking playoffs or bust season. Not play-in. Not well we won 40 games so we are growing. We need to make the fucking playoffs. 8 seasons in a row for not making the playoffs needs to get some people fired.

This roster needs a shake up badly. And if they want to go all in next year on the shake up and take an extra year to see that Devin still is a No-D chucker and Sochan is a pussy when it comes to shooting open 3s that’s their prerogative I guess. But don’t try to chicken shit your way of admitting the FO made mistakes with these players by saying well the Spurs are young and developing. Bc I’ve seen zero development from any of the pre-Wemby players.

Also this chickenshit excuse of we are young needs to stop too. Idgaf about how young are players are when all the other young teams with talent except ours is making the playoffs.

Our core is literally 3 lottery picks from the last 3 drafts (including 25). I think we probably DO make the playoffs this year because Wemby is that guy, but honestly saying this is a make or break season to make the playoffs is pretty insane. This is 100% a developmental season. That's 100% the reason you don't blow your wad on Durant. Wemby is what, 21? 22? And he's the oldest of the core. Yeah man, this is a developmental season but one where we probably make the playoffs. But still.

[KobesAchilles]

I don't care if you quit or not. It's just amazing how people come on here and bitch and whine about the Spurs needing to make big moves and shake things up when they traded for De'Aaron Fox during the season. I'm very serious about this: what the fuck is wrong with you? Is it brain damage? Or are you, like, a bot programmed to just spit out the same shit no matter what happens?
Am I programmed to be right all the time? Yes I am. I actually have conviction in what I say. You just continue to spout out wrong and incorrect statements at every turn which is why you won’t take the bet bc you don’t actually believe the Spurs are going to make the playoffs. You have doubt. Bc if you didn’t you would take the bet.

And you can say otherwise But once you seriously go back and look at my posts you will be hard pressed to find when I was wrong. Heck I even said the Spurs were going to get a top 4 pick this year before the season even started. I’m just tired of being right at this point.

Fox isn’t shaking up the roster. He was a nice addition but we didn’t really give up anything to get him. We still have a roster filled with flawed players. My brain damaged mind wants the Spurs to exchange those flawed players for better players. It’s a weird concept I know. I am a fan of the organization. I am not a player fan. I want the organization to be a winner again. If a player isn’t helping the organization win then I want them gone.

[LeBowen]

This is crazy. We need multiple players with the skillset that they can get to the rim and create shots. Especially off the bench. We desprately needed more of that last year and now we have that and y'all want to revert to where we were at before. I'm not saying we should keep or trade Johnson, but the idea that we got one more guy who can get to the bucket and now we somehow have a surplus of that skill is wild.

Because we kind of do.
We replaced CP3 with Fox, Castle has shown he's all about attacking the rim and that also happens to be Harper's biggest strength.
Two of them will be on the floor at all times when everyone's healthy. I don't want Keldon's random, tunnel vision drives where anything can happen at all times to be a thing.
If he can't get his shot back, there's not much use for him.

[MannyIsGod]

Preach! Everyone here rightfully hates Dillon Brooks... but Dillon's bullshit is at least backed up by being a better, more impactful player than Jeremy Sochan. I just hate how Jeremy is a persona before he's a basketball player. Should be the other way around. Jeremy hasn't earned it yet.

Jeremy is no where near the level of Brooks on being a distraction for his team. Yeah, Sochan does some shit here and there, but it's not even comparable. If for nothing else, Brooks riling up Lebron and then being banished from Memphis should prove that. Is Brooks better than Sochan now? Sure. At the same age? Well at the same age Brooks was a ROOKIE in the NBA. I don't think Sochan has much of a future on this team because his shooting, but I do think Sochan will be have a better NBA career than Devin fucking Brooks when all is said and done.

[MannyIsGod]

Because we kind of do.
We replaced CP3 with Fox, Castle has shown he's all about attacking the rim and that also happens to be Harper's biggest strength.
Two of them will be on the floor at all times when everyone's healthy. I don't want Keldon's random, tunnel vision drives where anything can happen at all times to be a thing.
If he can't get his shot back, there's not much use for him.

I mean you're talking about shooting and Keldon is the best shooter out of those 4. That's not really a great thing for Keldon, and I REALLY hope Castle and Harper both pass him up in that regard this year, but its just kinda weird to say he's expendable because of his shot when he's the best one.

I'm not against a trade involving Keldon if it brings back a better fit. I'm just against the stupid sentiment that so many people around here hold that want to trade him just to get him off the team.

[MannyIsGod]

Am I programmed to be right all the time? Yes I am. I actually have conviction in what I say. You just continue to spout out wrong and incorrect statements at every turn which is why you won’t take the bet bc you don’t actually believe the Spurs are going to make the playoffs. You have doubt. Bc if you didn’t you would take the bet.

And you can say otherwise But once you seriously go back and look at my posts you will be hard pressed to find when I was wrong. Heck I even said the Spurs were going to get a top 4 pick this year before the season even started. I’m just tired of being right at this point.

Fox isn’t shaking up the roster. He was a nice addition but we didn’t really give up anything to get him. We still have a roster filled with flawed players. My brain damaged mind wants the Spurs to exchange those flawed players for better players. It’s a weird concept I know. I am a fan of the organization. I am not a player fan. I want the organization to be a winner again. If a player isn’t helping the organization win then I want them gone.

This I 100% agree with. The roster construction is fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuucked right now and we need pieces that fit better. I just think we might do that and still end up not much better, RIGHT NOW.

[LeBowen]

I mean you're talking about shooting and Keldon is the best shooter out of those 4. That's not really a great thing for Keldon, and I REALLY hope Castle and Harper both pass him up in that regard this year, but its just kinda weird to say he's expendable because of his shot when he's the best one.

I'm not against a trade involving Keldon if it brings back a better fit. I'm just against the stupid sentiment that so many people around here hold that want to trade him just to get him off the team.

He's the least bad shooter of the bunch and his shots are the easiest.
Fox's percentage is similar on way more difficult shots.

Anyhow, I don't want to get rid of him for the sake of getting rid of him but because we need to improve our shooting and wing defense.
There's no denying Keldon is a horrible defender.

[Chinook]

De-prioritizing the reigning ROTY, making he and the #2 draft pick bench players, all so you can make the lineup work for Jeremy Sochan seems pretty sub-optimal to me. Opinions may vary.

The Spurs better "prioritize" Castle if he doesn't learn to be a positive player. Both Steph and Harper have to earn their minutes, and in a scenario where Sochan is a better fit in the lineup than them, I don't think one can justify not going with him. While you can develop guys on a winning team, you do that in a different way than you do on a losing team. I've expressed my interest in giving Harper a chance as the starting SG before. I still believe that. But that's because I think he has the skill-set to make it work, not because I'm worried about his status.

Trading for a star, then purposefully not playing the best guys around him would be way more sub-optimal. I don't know that opinions truly vary there.

[LeBowen]

The Spurs better "prioritize" Castle if he doesn't learn to be a positive player. Both Steph and Harper have to earn their minutes, and in a scenario where Sochan is a better fit in the lineup than them, I don't think one can justify not going with him. While you can develop guys on a winning team, you do that in a different way than you do on a losing team. I've expressed my interest in giving Harper a chance as the starting SG before. I still believe that. But that's because I think he has the skill-set to make it work, not because I'm worried about his status.

Trading for a star, then purposefully not playing the best guys around him would be way more sub-optimal. I don't know that opinions truly vary there.

You know who else should've earned their minutes? Vassell and Sochan. But those were just handed to them.
Instead Champagnie who had the best stretch of his career got benched during the team's best stretch od the season just so Devin can go back to cosplaying Kobe and playing awful defense.

[scott]

Jeremy is no where near the level of Brooks on being a distraction for his team. Yeah, Sochan does some shit here and there, but it's not even comparable. If for nothing else, Brooks riling up Lebron and then being banished from Memphis should prove that. Is Brooks better than Sochan now? Sure. At the same age? Well at the same age Brooks was a ROOKIE in the NBA. I don't think Sochan has much of a future on this team because his shooting, but I do think Sochan will be have a better NBA career than Devin fucking Brooks when all is said and done.

You underestimate Dillon Brooks the player. He's been a useful player for HOU, and a key part of turning the culture around there. It's not like the Rockets were trying to dump him.

Brooks riling up Lebron in that playoff series against the Lakers is exactly the kind of shit Jeremy does... except Jeremy's never been in a playoff game and he does his shit talking on social media, as if that makes him some kind of badass. Jeremy is just as much a fake tough guy as Brooks... but at least Brooks has been a positive contributor (and All Defense Team player) on multiple playoff teams.

By what measure are you betting Sochan will have a better NBA career than Brooks? Longevity? Career earnings? Some composite stat? Manny's Feel Good Points?

Brooks is on my shortlist of NeverSpurs... I don't particularly want anyone who emulates him, but at least he does his bullshit while contributing to winning teams, not just being a pest as an occasional starter on a lottery team. People talk about him as the "personality of the team" but I don't particularly value his personality as one I want to embody the team at all. I'd much rather point to a guy like Keldon (hard working, humble, full of passion) for something like that. Thankfully we're starting to fill the roster with actual basketball players instead of just having a roster full of characters.

Spurs fans would absolutely hate him while simultaneously laughing at him if he wasn't a Spur.

I'm just going to chalk this post up to typical Manny Uber Homer musings.

[PhantomDashCam]

I never bought the idea the Spurs would trade key (arguably), rotation pieces to a conference rival.
Like it or Lump it, CREAM (as some have dubbed it), does indeed rule the Spurs decision making process.

[FkLA]

Meh, don't sweat it. The Suns got more from the Rockets than anything the Spurs could have offered without overpaying, so it's all good in my eyes. Unless you were willing to offer another first round pick (which would have been a mistake), the Spurs weren't beating the Rockets' offer.

Another first round pick would not have prevented me from making the deal. Isn't that the whole point of stockpiling first round picks, to be able to trade for someone like KD?

Spurs want to trade rape everyone like they did the Kings and that's a stupid way to go about things when you haven't been any good for so long. A slight overpay is not a big deal in the grand scheme of things.

[Mr. Body]

Another first round pick would not have prevented me from making the deal. Isn't that the whole point of stockpiling first round picks, to be able to trade for someone like KD?

Spurs want to trade rape everyone like they did the Kings and that's a stupid way to go about things when you haven't been any good for so long. A slight overpay is not a big deal in the grand scheme of things.

People really need to understand that Durant was a very awkward fit after this coming season, both salary-wise, which is considerable, but in team structure and pecking order. This isn't EA Sports. The Spurs knew what they were willing to part with for him and that's why they did.

[scott]

The Spurs better "prioritize" Castle if he doesn't learn to be a positive player. Both Steph and Harper have to earn their minutes, and in a scenario where Sochan is a better fit in the lineup than them, I don't think one can justify not going with him. While you can develop guys on a winning team, you do that in a different way than you do on a losing team. I've expressed my interest in giving Harper a chance as the starting SG before. I still believe that. But that's because I think he has the skill-set to make it work, not because I'm worried about his status.



I assume you meant "the Spurs better *de-prioritize( Castle if he doesn't learn..." because otherwise I'm not sure what you are saying here.

Sure... if Castle doesn't improve, then they should no longer prioritize him... but why would they de-prioritize him (and Harper) for a player who is currently worse than them after the benefit of 3-pressure free seasons where he's been gifted his minutes on the team? Why Do Steph and Harper need to earn their minutes over a guy who didn't have to earn his? This makes no sense.

There are reasons to believe Castle can be a a very high level (meaning, borderline all-star or better) part of your core going forward (as evidenced by winning ROTY). There are reasons to believe Harper can also be that (if not, then why are you drafting him at #2?). There are no real reasons to believe Sochan can be that.

To go out of our way to sign another player to start ahead of Castle so that you can make Sochan work in the starting lineup is just an insane team building philosophy. You could just sign the wing who makes the better player (Castle) have a better fit rather than the player who makes the worse player fit. Unless of course you don't believe in Castle (which I gather from your opinions, you don't). In which case... you could just say that instead.


Trading for a star, then purposefully not playing the best guys around him would be way more sub-optimal. I don't know that opinions truly vary there.

Everyone agree with that... only a small handful (which apparently includes you) think Sochan is one of the "best guys" over Castle and Harper. That's your opinion, and yes... it varies from the consensus.

[exstatic]

Am I programmed to be right all the time? Yes I am. I actually have conviction in what I say. You just continue to spout out wrong and incorrect statements at every turn which is why you won’t take the bet bc you don’t actually believe the Spurs are going to make the playoffs. You have doubt. Bc if you didn’t you would take the bet.

And you can say otherwise But once you seriously go back and look at my posts you will be hard pressed to find when I was wrong. Heck I even said the Spurs were going to get a top 4 pick this year before the season even started. I’m just tired of being right at this point.

Fox isn’t shaking up the roster. He was a nice addition but we didn’t really give up anything to get him. We still have a roster filled with flawed players. My brain damaged mind wants the Spurs to exchange those flawed players for better players. It’s a weird concept I know. I am a fan of the organization. I am not a player fan. I want the organization to be a winner again. If a player isn’t helping the organization win then I want them gone.

Well you said we had missed the playoffs for 8 years, and it’s actually 6, so apparently you are not programmed to be right all of the time.

[poopbox]

Our core is literally 3 lottery picks from the last 3 drafts (including 25). I think we probably DO make the playoffs this year because Wemby is that guy, but honestly saying this is a make or break season to make the playoffs is pretty insane. This is 100% a developmental season. That's 100% the reason you don't blow your wad on Durant. Wemby is what, 21? 22? And he's the oldest of the core. Yeah man, this is a developmental season but one where we probably make the playoffs. But still.

You can't have 5 straight losing seasons and going into at least year 4 of a rebuild and still sell people on "we are developing players". Someone should be fired if that is the case. We have players who have gone their whole rookie contracts on losing teams. We have players who into their second contract having never played on a team with a winning record. This off season and next off season should be used to get the losers out (branhim, wesley, sochan, devin, and keldon). Nobody wins with the players they tank with. Spurs won't be the exception.

[objective]

Another first round pick would not have prevented me from making the deal. Isn't that the whole point of stockpiling first round picks, to be able to trade for someone like KD?

Spurs want to trade rape everyone like they did the Kings and that's a stupid way to go about things when you haven't been any good for so long. A slight overpay is not a big deal in the grand scheme of things.

Rockets obviously wanted him, and I don't think any upped Spurs offer would have withstood a Rockets counter offer. They have plenty more first round picks also, and more recent young prospects to match anything else player wise the Spurs could have added like Sochan, Wesley, or Branham.

Maybe Spurs should have tried just to get the Rockets to pay more, but for whatever reason they don't like to play those games just to raise a price tag like with the Reaves RFA situation.

[rascal]

.

[MannyIsGod]

You underestimate Dillon Brooks the player. He's been a useful player for HOU, and a key part of turning the culture around there. It's not like the Rockets were trying to dump him.

Brooks riling up Lebron in that playoff series against the Lakers is exactly the kind of shit Jeremy does... except Jeremy's never been in a playoff game and he does his shit talking on social media, as if that makes him some kind of badass. Jeremy is just as much a fake tough guy as Brooks... but at least Brooks has been a positive contributor (and All Defense Team player) on multiple playoff teams.

By what measure are you betting Sochan will have a better NBA career than Brooks? Longevity? Career earnings? Some composite stat? Manny's Feel Good Points?

Brooks is on my shortlist of NeverSpurs... I don't particularly want anyone who emulates him, but at least he does his bullshit while contributing to winning teams, not just being a pest as an occasional starter on a lottery team. People talk about him as the "personality of the team" but I don't particularly value his personality as one I want to embody the team at all. I'd much rather point to a guy like Keldon (hard working, humble, full of passion) for something like that. Thankfully we're starting to fill the roster with actual basketball players instead of just having a roster full of characters.

Spurs fans would absolutely hate him while simultaneously laughing at him if he wasn't a Spur.

I'm just going to chalk this post up to typical Manny Uber Homer musings.

Sochan is a better player at 21 than Brooks was at 22. Jeremy's teamates love him. Brook's teammates hate him. I don't know why you think Brook's career numbers are something that Sochan can't reach. Brooks has made all defense 2nd team once. The voting for that is lol, and he did it off the strength of being on a good defensive team. I'm not saying he's a bad defender, but neither is Sochan. You say I am under estimating Brooks and I say you are over estimating him.

I love how I'm the homer when I literally say that he'll probably get traded. If you want to start insults just because you - someone who claims to always want data based arguments - don't want to actually have a data based discussion then I'll just chalk it up to typical Scott Uber Full of Shit musings.

[MannyIsGod]

You can't have 5 straight losing seasons and going into at least year 4 of a rebuild and still sell people on "we are developing players". Someone should be fired if that is the case. We have players who have gone their whole rookie contracts on losing teams. We have players who into their second contract having never played on a team with a winning record. This off season and next off season should be used to get the losers out (branhim, wesley, sochan, devin, and keldon). Nobody wins with the players they tank with. Spurs won't be the exception.

Yes, you have to get the guys who haven't developed out. If the roster outside of maybe 5 players is someone you want to trade, how is it NOT a development year? The fuck? You're telling me most of the roster sucks but it's a must make the playoff year?

[tbdog]

Regardless, Spurs need to make moves to bridge their flaws. Durant made sense court wise, just that shooting and scoring with that height.

[KobesAchilles]

Well you said we had missed the playoffs for 8 years, and it’s actually 6, so apparently you are not programmed to be right all of the time.
My prediction 6 years ago was to miss it 8 years in a row. Some poster was shit talking the Kings and how badly they are run and I was explaining to said poster how easy it was for us to become like the Sacramento Kings.

I basically said that once the elder Holts left us I could easily envision us becoming a shit franchise due to bad ownership. I’m a big believer in what Jerry Krause said as far as organizations are what win championships. Great players obviously help but you can be the best player in the world (Jokic and Giannis) and not even sniff the finals for several years due to bad organizational mistakes.

Bad ownership leads to bad everything was my take. And I still haven’t moved off of that take.

[scott]

Sochan is a better player at 21 than Brooks was at 22.

By what measure? I didn't watch a lot of Grizzlies games in 2017-18, did you? Their stats look pretty comparable, except Brooks was a decent shooter on decent volume and Sochan was not.


Jeremy's teamates love him. Brook's teammates hate him. I don't know why you think Brook's career numbers are something that Sochan can't reach. Brooks has made all defense 2nd team once. The voting for that is lol, and he did it off the strength of being on a good defensive team. I'm not saying he's a bad defender, but neither is Sochan. You say I am under estimating Brooks and I say you are over estimating him.

How much do you want to bet that Sochan will never have a single season in his career where he averages 18ppg or shoots .397 from 3 on 6+ attempts per game? I 100% believe those are things that Sochan can't reach. Do you?


I love how I'm the homer when I literally say that he'll probably get traded. If you want to start insults just because you - someone who claims to always want data based arguments - don't want to actually have a data based discussion then I'll just chalk it up to typical Scott Uber Full of Shit musings.

You're a homer because you say the homerest shit imaginable, frequently. What data have you brought to this discussion? I went back and double checked... you've provided none. Let me know when you have some, I'd love to discuss. Post it up in the Sochan thread and make sure to tag me.

Edit: I take back what I said about you being a homer and apologize. You don't say the homerest shit imaginable frequently, only occasionally (maybe even rarely). You don't frequently speak from a place of homerism, only sometimes (like now).

[poopbox]

Yes, you have to get the guys who haven't developed out. If the roster outside of maybe 5 players is someone you want to trade, how is it NOT a development year? The fuck? You're telling me most of the roster sucks but it's a must make the playoff year?

Looks like we playing 5 players 48 min a game then:rollin

[rascal]

Sochan is a better player at 21 than Brooks was at 22. Jeremy's teamates love him. Brook's teammates hate him. I don't know why you think Brook's career numbers are something that Sochan can't reach. Brooks has made all defense 2nd team once. The voting for that is lol, and he did it off the strength of being on a good defensive team. I'm not saying he's a bad defender, but neither is Sochan. You say I am under estimating Brooks and I say you are over estimating him.

I love how I'm the homer when I literally say that he'll probably get traded. If you want to start insults just because you - someone who claims to always want data based arguments - don't want to actually have a data based discussion then I'll just chalk it up to typical Scott Uber Full of Shit musings.

Literally

lol

[Obstructed_View]

I agree the Spurs could make a trade or two, but they need role players. Thank God they didn't pull the trigger on that loser.

[mystargtr34]

Give me PJ Washington for Keldon and their swap back.

[KobesAchilles]

Give me PJ Washington for Keldon and their swap back.
For as bad a franchise as they are? Nah you keep that pick.

[djohn2oo8]

Sochan is a better player at 21 than Brooks was at 22. Jeremy's teamates love him. Brook's teammates hate him. I don't know why you think Brook's career numbers are something that Sochan can't reach. Brooks has made all defense 2nd team once. The voting for that is lol, and he did it off the strength of being on a good defensive team. I'm not saying he's a bad defender, but neither is Sochan. You say I am under estimating Brooks and I say you are over estimating him.

I love how I'm the homer when I literally say that he'll probably get traded. If you want to start insults just because you - someone who claims to always want data based arguments - don't want to actually have a data based discussion then I'll just chalk it up to typical Scott Uber Full of Shit musings.
Brooks teammates don’t actually hate him. You see how much worse Memphis got without him. He played well here so kind of bummed he had to go. Because you need to find another enforcer.

[scott]

Brooks teammates don’t actually hate him. You see how much worse Memphis got without him. He played well here so kind of bummed he had to go. Because you need to find another enforcer.

Yeah... everything I've heard is that his Rockets teammates seem to like him.

I can't stand the fucker, so I'm glad he's in a place to do slightly less damage to us.

[dbestpro]

The trade the Spurs did not make may be the best move they make. Durant will make Houston better until he breaks down and finishes the season on the injured list. Houston gave up too much.

[Mr. Body]

Yeah... everything I've heard is that his Rockets teammates seem to like him.

I can't stand the fucker, so I'm glad he's in a place to do slightly less damage to us.

His teammates pretend to like him so he doesn't shank them in their sleep.

[MannyIsGod]

By what measure? I didn't watch a lot of Grizzlies games in 2017-18, did you? Their stats look pretty comparable, except Brooks was a decent shooter on decent volume and Sochan was not.


Every measure other than permitter shooting? BPM and VORP? Rebounds? Assists? Stocks? eFG? TS%? The game is not just 3 point shooting.




How much do you want to bet that Sochan will never have a single season in his career where he averages 18ppg or shoots .397 from 3 on 6+ attempts per game? I 100% believe those are things that Sochan can't reach. Do you?



There are a lot of players in the NBA who won't have those stat lines and are better than Brooks. Especially since that was a one off season. I don't think you want to cherry pick Keldon's best season stats to say he's better than Brooks, do you? Anyway, no, I don't think he'll ever put up a stat line like that. But again, as valuable as 3 point shooting is - it's not everything. And that's why he doesn't fit here. But neither would Draymond Green. (No, Sochan is not Green)

Sochan tweets and dyes his hair. I get why that's annoying to some folks. It's not my cup of tea, but our best player loves him even though he is the most anti bullshit guy in the league. Most of the shit on the court isn't him trolling, it's him protecting his teammates. Probably one reason they like him. Maybe what y'all think of Sochan isn't all that accurate? Brooks on the other hand got run from a team that was primed to take over the western conference. Twice. And sure, the Rockets aren't publicly shitting on him the way Memphis did, but he still got run.

[John B]

It’s a relief not to have traded for KD. I rather the Spurs sign a couple of role players instead of a max player like KD. And allows more touches for Wemby, Fox, Castle and Dylan, supposing he’s the pick at #2. I suspect they are high on a player at #14, hopefully Sorber.

Now what would it take to get John Collins, which imo is a better fit.

[scott]

Every measure other than permitter shooting? BPM and VORP? Rebounds? Assists? Stocks? eFG? TS%? The game is not just 3 point shooting.



There are a lot of players in the NBA who won't have those stat lines and are better than Brooks. Especially since that was a one off season. I don't think you want to cherry pick Keldon's best season stats to say he's better than Brooks, do you? Anyway, no, I don't think he'll ever put up a stat line like that. But again, as valuable as 3 point shooting is - it's not everything. And that's why he doesn't fit here. But neither would Draymond Green. (No, Sochan is not Green)

Sochan tweets and dyes his hair. I get why that's annoying to some folks. It's not my cup of tea, but our best player loves him even though he is the most anti bullshit guy in the league. Most of the shit on the court isn't him trolling, it's him protecting his teammates. Probably one reason they like him. Maybe what y'all think of Sochan isn't all that accurate? Brooks on the other hand got run from a team that was primed to take over the western conference. Twice. And sure, the Rockets aren't publicly shitting on him the way Memphis did, but he still got run.

You literally said "I don't know why you think Brook's career numbers are something that Sochan can't reach."

Which of Brook's numbers are you talking about then, since you're accusing me of cherry picking? He's a .355 career 3p shooter on 5.1 attempts/gm. 3.8 3pm/100. 23.2 pts/100. Sochan is as 1.2 3pm/100, 19.9 pts/100. I don't think Sochan's career averages will ever approach either of those. I sure as hope Sochan becomes a better player than Brooks, because I don't even like Brooks and Sochan is on our team... but he's not a better player now, and you're the one who brought up "numbers" after I asked what it means when you said Sochan will have a better career than Brooks.

But if you don't care about these stats... why are you bringing them up? Brooks has been a contributing player on multiple playoff teams, Sochan has not, and frankly I don't see him having the same kind of impact on pushing the Spurs to the playoffs as Brooks had on his teams that went to the playoffs. Right now Sochan is a bench guy who we hope will improve.

Brooks and Sochan's antics both annoy me (as do Draymond's). But at least Brooks (and especially Green) have backed it up. Sochan is on online troll, grabs dudes nipples on the court, stirs up shit... and has backed it up with what exactly? I don't give a shit about him dying his hair (actually it might be my favorite part about him). I'm supposed to care that career losers Devin Vassell and Keldon Johnson love him for it? Maybe Zach Collins would also give him a ringing endorsement? I'm sure Jeremy Sochan is a super cool dude to be friends with... but until he impacts winning basketball, I'd prefer to not have his type of troll mentality on the team. It portrays more mental weakness than it does strength to me. If you disagree, you're free to be a fan of his.

Edit: I'd rather have guys who funnel their energy into winning games before doing the shit Sochan does. Imagine in 2009 if someone like Ryan Gomes was online saying "Fuck San Antonio"... we'd all just be like "lol, okay cool?"

It doesn't really matter if Sochan will eventually have a better career than Dillon Brooks, and that wasn't even the topic that was being discussed. If and when Sochan is better than Brooks, I hope he still doesn't act like Brooks (or Draymond). It's not a personality trait I enjoy in our players, and that's my opinion. Other people are free to have differing opinions.

[Pauleta14]

Brooks is Sochan's ceiling if A LOT of miracles happen in the coming years.

Sochan would need to improve his bbiq, his shooting, his ball handling, his passing, his focus etc

[Chillen]

If that report is true Spurs did not even make an offer for KD well that explains why we did not get him. LMFAO.

[Ice009]

If that report is true Spurs did not even make an offer for KD well that explains why we did not get him. LMFAO.

I don't think it's true, but if it is, that's kind of funny, especially if KD had the Spurs at the top of his list for real.

Maybe the Spurs had a little bit of residual hate left over from him turning the Spurs down in 2016 and it was a bit of an FU to him. Maybe they were like, thanks for not signing with us in 2016, but we don't need you this time around. You missed your chance. Oh, and F that extension you want. You ain't getting it from us. :lol
Who know what was true with all these fake reports coming out all the time from people that don't have any real inside information.

[spursparker9]

Good that Spurs did not make any formal offer to Phoenix.

Now Vassel, Sochan and Barnes will not get their feelings hurt. Power of friendship is intact. Let's get to the WCF next year.

[cd98]

My guess is that the Spurs didn’t make a formal offer. They probably talked hypothetically and the Suns could see the Spurs were not going to give up anything significant so they worked the other teams.

[Davidicus]

I’m fine with the outcome. One of those trades that will only really pan out for HOU if they win the championship in the next 3 years, which I would put at low probability.

I also wouldn’t sleep on Jalen Green. Rox fans keep saying addition by subtraction. I didn’t watch a lot of HOU last year, but the kid is 23 years old, and now has a chip on his shoulder.

Speaking of, I do remember getting absolutely hosed by Green and Brooks last season. So from a SA HOU matchup perspective, I actually feel slightly better about a potential playoff matchup. A healthy KD in the postseason is far from a guarantee as well.

We shall see.

[sfernald]

I told you guys don’t get too excited, that he would go for more than expected. To beat this trade, we would have given up too much of our depth. There was no way he was going for a shoestring and a pack of skiddles as some had convinced themselves on here. But it’s for the best guys. Now we can snag a starting quality player at #14!

[Mr. Body]

I’m fine with the outcome. One of those trades that will only really pan out for HOU if they win the championship in the next 3 years, which I would put at low probability.

I also wouldn’t sleep on Jalen Green. Rox fans keep saying addition by subtraction. I didn’t watch a lot of HOU last year, but the kid is 23 years old, and now has a chip on his shoulder.

Speaking of, I do remember getting absolutely hosed by Green and Brooks last season. So from a SA HOU matchup perspective, I actually feel slightly better about a potential playoff matchup. A healthy KD in the postseason is far from a guarantee as well.

We shall see.

The Rockets have a good chance at a championship. Anybody does. There's only one very good team in the league in OKC and the rest are steps behind. It takes an injury or two and it's anybody's. We haven't had a repeat champion in years.

And Jalen Green sucks. He's a volume shooter who will go off every 4-5 games but is bad everywhere else.

[CGD]

I told you guys don’t get too excited, that he would go for more than expected. To beat this trade, we would have given up too much of our depth. There was no way he was going for a shoestring and a pack of skiddles as some had convinced themselves on here. But it’s for the best guys. Now we can snag a starting quality player at #14!

He went for more than expected? We always thought the framework was a "good" player + filler + 25FRP. The issues was whether a team would include the 3rd good asset (Reed, Smith, Sochan, Castle). Houston held, while only giving us 5 SRPs to allow the Suns to save some face.

Bottom line: The Houston option > Vassell/Barnes/14/SRPs

No harm, no foul tbh. Time to move on.

[sfernald]

You do realize the first part of your post isn’t an actual insult. Telling someone that they aren’t worth telling to kill themself is actually a good thing. The whining infant part also isn’t really an insult either. I’m past kindergarten.

I will do a better job with you. If the Spurs make the playoffs this season I will quit Spurstalk for a year. If they don’t then you quit Spurstalk for a year. Deal?

omg just to make it interesting for all of us, let’s say if Okc wins the title again next year both of you are gone for a year?

[LeBowen]

The Rockets have a good chance at a championship. Anybody does. There's only one very good team in the league in OKC and the rest are steps behind. It takes an injury or two and it's anybody's. We haven't had a repeat champion in years.

OKC were taken to 7 games by the Nuggets with 3.5 players and the Pacers without a legit superstar.
They're obviously ahead of everyone, but I don't think they're ahead by much.
They were a perfect regular season team that obviously had flaws in the playoffs.

We'll see how they do next season because it's always way more difficult when you're the team that everyone's studying in depth and trying to beat.
But they'll have no pressure going forward because they already won their championship, which will be a huge boost for them.

[Mr. Body]

OKC were taken to 7 games by the Nuggets with 3.5 players and the Pacers without a legit superstar.
They're obviously ahead of everyone, but I don't think they're ahead by much.
They were a perfect regular season team that obviously had flaws in the playoffs.

We'll see how they do next season because it's always way more difficult when you're the team that everyone's studying in depth and trying to beat.
But they'll have no pressure going forward because they already won their championship, which will be a huge boost for them.

Yeah, I don't think much of them. Defense is exceptional, their offense depends on their gimmicky get-Shai-fouls crap. Their super power is they're rising when there's barely any competition. Hopefully we can join them soon and knock them out.

[LeBowen]

Yeah, I don't think much of them. Defense is exceptional, their offense depends on their gimmicky get-Shai-fouls crap. Their super power is they're rising when there's barely any competition. Hopefully we can join them soon and knock them out.

The thing the rest of the league should be scared the most is Presti.
They have a ton of assets and he'll keep improving the roster, I have no doubt about that.
He'll surely trade some of the role players while their value is at it's peak and higher than it should be.

[Ice009]

The thing the rest of the league should be scared the most is Presti.
They have a ton of assets and he'll keep improving the roster, I have no doubt about that.
He'll surely trade some of the role players while their value is at it's peak and higher than it should be.

I didn't want Presti to go at the time when he was still with the Spurs. I always wondered if they could have done something to keep him, or was that never going to happen with RC? Maybe they could have had joint GMs or something. You could tell at the time he was on his way to being really good/great. He built some amazing OKC teams at the start of his tenure and it's not his fault that it went to shit. He was able to salvage all that, though, and rebuild again. They did have the talent to win it all back in the Durant, Westbrook, Harden years, but due to various things, it just never happened (not paying Harden, Westbrook being selfish/more of a me-first player, injuries etc.). I wonder if he purposely now tries to get players that have good character as well as talent, or if he still focuses on talent first and foremost.

[sfernald]

He went for more than expected? We always thought the framework was a "good" player + filler + 25FRP. The issues was whether a team would include the 3rd good asset (Reed, Smith, Sochan, Castle). Houston held, while only giving us 5 SRPs to allow the Suns to save some face.

Bottom line: The Houston option > Vassell/Barnes/14/SRPs

No harm, no foul tbh. Time to move on.

i think we would have to put in sochan and probably an extra first to actually beat Houston’s best offer. And even then they could have easily thrown in a pho first and suddenly we are faced with throwing in castle or some shit. No thanks and thank god.

[sfernald]

The thing the rest of the league should be scared the most is Presti.
They have a ton of assets and he'll keep improving the roster, I have no doubt about that.
He'll surely trade some of the role players while their value is at it's peak and higher than it should be.

that’s the thing. They got two firsts to trade from this year so they can go improve their weaknesses. Maybe three point shooting. And all of their role players are now “championship level” role players. Imagine what they could get for a young player like Cason Wallace with how he showed out in the playoffs with a small role? They don’t even really need him tbh. I think three firsts is quite doable. If Presti cashes out a couple assets, he could really make a big splash which would be absolutely insane for the league to have to deal with.

[Spurs Homer]

Pretty sure the spurs tried to get durant but could not or would not beat the rockets offer...
which is fine...

maybe one day if we are lucky, we can say, "thank god the spurs didn't give up on _____ & _____ - look at how good they fit on our championship roster!"

[exstatic]

that’s the thing. They got two firsts to trade from this year so they can go improve their weaknesses. Maybe three point shooting. And all of their role players are now “championship level” role players. Imagine what they could get for a young player like Cason Wallace with how he showed out in the playoffs with a small role? They don’t even really need him tbh. I think three firsts is quite doable. If Presti cashes out a couple assets, he could really make a big splash which would be absolutely insane for the league to have to deal with.

scott pointed out that they don’t have even one roster spot open or any non guaranteed contracts to cut, and that they will maybe have to kick 15 and 24 for this draft down the road a year or two.

[dn0774]

The reporting that the Spurs didn't submit a formal offer could be true even if exploratory offers/talks took place. I kind of wish the Spurs pushed a little bit more even just to increase the price Houston paid. PHX extracting Jabari (or another 1st) for instance would've been a good result, though I am a little happy that DBrooks was included, he is annoying for Wemby clearly.

I am concerned our FO thinks Vassell can still be a key cog, I can just picture them talking themselves into keeping him. The fact they committed that big contract to him, he was probably less than 100% last year, he's a shooter (allegedly) on a team desperate for shooting...the reasoning writes itself.

[djohn2oo8]

I’m fine with the outcome. One of those trades that will only really pan out for HOU if they win the championship in the next 3 years, which I would put at low probability.

I also wouldn’t sleep on Jalen Green. Rox fans keep saying addition by subtraction. I didn’t watch a lot of HOU last year, but the kid is 23 years old, and now has a chip on his shoulder.

Speaking of, I do remember getting absolutely hosed by Green and Brooks last season. So from a SA HOU matchup perspective, I actually feel slightly better about a potential playoff matchup. A healthy KD in the postseason is far from a guarantee as well.

We shall see.
Green is ass. I’ve never seen a player score 30 one night and 9 the next for a whole season

[sfernald]

scott pointed out that they don’t have even one roster spot open or any non guaranteed contracts to cut, and that they will maybe have to kick 15 and 24 for this draft down the road a year or two.

Presti doesn’t seem to be afraid to bring extra guys to camp and make ppl actually fight for a roster spot. He doesn’t seem to have a problem moving 1 or 2 contracts at the last minute either. Spurs should take note. There’s no friendship rings at Okc just work your ass or gtfo.

for example I could see them drafting CMB at #15 and Fleming at #24 and then having them compete against Dieng and Jones for the final two roster spots. I could easily see those two being swapped out for more promising rookies. And it wouldn’t be hard to find them a home on some lottery team. But a consolidation trade to move past the spurs seems even more likely. Trade #15 + #24 + #44 to Suns for #10 makes sense to me.

[Chillen]

Just saw on Realgm that there is a report Giannis is waiting to see what the Bucks do in free agency. So that door might open again and maybe that is the player the Spurs really want.

[poopbox]

Brooks is Sochan's ceiling if A LOT of miracles happen in the coming years.

Sochan would need to improve his bbiq, his shooting, his ball handling, his passing, his focus etc

No way on earth Sochan will ever be the 3 point shooter or point of attack defender that Brooks has been in his career.

Sochan will never ever at any point in his career impact winning an losing like Brooks does.

The grizzlies haven't won a playoff game since Brooks left, in part because they haven't been able to find a 3 & D player like him.

The rockets won more games both years he was on the team. They were the laughing stock of the nba and even worse than the spurs until he was one of the veterans that showed up.

Feel how you want about his personality or his antics but I don't see how anyone can deny that Brooks impacts winning and losing. Teams he leaves win less when he's gone teams he goes to win more when he's there.

Sochan at no point in his career so far has contributed to winning. The only noteworthy thing he has done in a spurs uniform is be the tank commander that helped us land Victor.

[poopbox]

Just saw on Realgm that there is a report Giannis is waiting to see what the Bucks do in free agency. So that door might open again and maybe that is the player the Spurs really want.

They don't have the assets or draft capital to do much of anything :rollin

Sounds like an excuse he is loading up so that when he ask for a trade he can be like "i gave them a chance in free agency"

[Spurs Homer]

No way on earth Sochan will ever be the 3 point shooter or point of attack defender that Brooks has been in his career.

Sochan will never ever at any point in his career impact winning an losing like Brooks does.

The grizzlies haven't won a playoff game since Brooks left, in part because they haven't been able to find a 3 & D player like him.

The rockets won more games both years he was on the team. They were the laughing stock of the nba and even worse than the spurs until he was one of the veterans that showed up.

Feel how you want about his personality or his antics but I don't see how anyone can deny that Brooks impacts winning and losing. Teams he leaves win less when he's gone teams he goes to win more when he's there.

Sochan at no point in his career so far has contributed to winning. The only noteworthy thing he has done in a spurs uniform is be the tank commander that helped us land Victor.


Im calling this now: your first two sentences will not age well at all...

[Chillen]

They don't have the assets or draft capital to do much of anything :rollin

Sounds like an excuse he is loading up so that when he ask for a trade he can be like "i gave them a chance in free agency"

Spurs will likely make an offer though. Definitely the next domino to fall I think he eventually requests a trade.

[scott]

scott pointed out that they don’t have even one roster spot open or any non guaranteed contracts to cut, and that they will maybe have to kick 15 and 24 for this draft down the road a year or two.

One small clarification, Ajay Mitchell is a club option (6/29/25 decision date) and Jaylin Williams is not fully guaranteed until January... but I am making the assumption that they want to keep both of those guys (so much so that I'd assume they'd just flat out waive Ousmane Dieng before they let either of them go).

I might be overestimating how they view Williams though... maybe they view him as expendable (especially if the right C fell into their laps), but he was definitely ahead of Dieng on the depth chart. Dillon Jones is the other guy at the bottom of their depth chart, but they gave him 4 years guaranteed.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Just saw on Realgm that there is a report Giannis is waiting to see what the Bucks do in free agency. So that door might open again and maybe that is the player the Spurs really want.

Giannis put Kevin Durant in his all-time starting five over Tim Duncan. Giannis is officially dead to me now!

[Ice009]

Giannis put Kevin Durant in his all-time starting five over Tim Duncan. Giannis is officially dead to me now!

Interesting. What was his starting 5? How long ago did he make the list?

[heyheymymy]

Green is ass. I’ve never seen a player score 30 one night and 9 the next for a whole season

Allow me to acquaint you with one Devin Vassell, then

[LeBowen]

Allow me to acquaint you with one Devin Vassell, then

Devin Vassell scored 30 or more 7 times in his 303 career games.

[djohn2oo8]

1937222443875361016

[djohn2oo8]

1937228819456491963

[Ice009]

lol. No offer. Keep the friends together. I hope some of this crew is traded, or that the Spurs have a good plan ready to go. I just don't know if these guys have much chance to improve if they haven't really improved much in the past few years, what makes the Spurs think they can this upcoming season (that is if they're keeping them together)?

[poopbox]

Spurs will likely make an offer though. Definitely the next domino to fall I think he eventually requests a trade.

Giannis is going to be much like KD in that only the teams he wants to play for will be allowed to trade for him. If the Spurs don't make that list it doesn't matter what they offer the Bucks won't take it.

[heyheymymy]

Devin Vassell scored 30 or more 7 times in his 303 career games.

Sadly as a recovering Dev sniffer, I was aware of that. So it's even worse then, same scoring total inconsistency game to game but you don't even get the 30+ point bursts as commonly. But there was a bit of a glimmer towards the end of last season that I'd like to pretend was something to believe in?

[spurraider21]

yeah rockets are very well positioned. we knew they needed to make at least one consolidation trade and they've done so in a very cheap way with the durant trade.

if you were trading for KD, he was going to take Brooks' spot in the lineup anwyay, and its clear they wanted to move off of Jalen Green regardless. so the KD trade was a slam dunk.

they are apparently in talks to decline FVV's club option fo 45 mil to negotiate a longer term deal, maybe something like 3/100. if KD takes a discount as well...

they can start FVV/Amen/Durant/Jabari/Sengun while still having Sheppard/Whitmore/Eason/Adams off the bench. Aaron Holiday is reasonable as well

Jabari is extension eligible as well so theres incentive to move him now

[heyheymymy]

damn that Rockets rotation looks dangerous

[poopbox]

lol. No offer. Keep the friends together. I hope some of this crew is traded, or that the Spurs have a good plan ready to go. I just don't know if these guys have much chance to improve if they haven't really improved much in the past few years, what makes the Spurs think they can this upcoming season (that is if they're keeping them together)?

The Spurs front office might just not be very good.

Other than the no brainer Victor pick and I guess not fucking up and doing something dumb other than taking Castle at 4, the Spurs drafts, trades, and free agent signings over the last 5 years have been bottom of the league status.

Primo huge bust
Branhim huge bust
Wesley huge bust
Sochan huge bust
Devin a bust considering Haliburton went right after him
Keldon maybe not a bust but definitely hasn't done anything to help the spurs be a better team
McDermott signing was a bust and he literally can't get on the court after leaving SA
Collins was so bad the spurs had to give the bulls their pick back to take him
Osman literally isn't in the league anymore. Literally no nba team wanted him after the spurs traded for him
Our second round picks never touch the floor. Never remotely contribute anything to the team. I thought this was standard but actually the more teams rosters I go through it seems they have at least 1 undrafted or second round pick guy on their team who plays semi regularly. Like if someone is out 8 weeks they just play that second round or undrafted player. and unless it's a star that is out they somehow stay afloat Not the spurs though. Tre Jones the only second round pick we had that actually played and he wasn't good.
Before Victor the last transaction the Spurs made that actually helped them become noticeably better was the Pau Gasol signing. Other than that, every non Victor transaction rather it be a trade, signing, or draft pick, has made the spurs a worse basketball team for 6 straight years.

I tried to count Derrick White as a good singing as he was the best player we had in the Denver series, but he was always hurt and had some pretty bad stretches and didn't hit his stride until he went to Boston so I couldn't quite get that far with him.
I tried to count the Chris Paul singing but Chris Paul literally turned around and made every team he went to a playoff team EXCEPT the spurs :rollin so while we were better than last year we will also go down as the one team the guy who specializes in turning around and getting to the playoffs couldn't get to the playoffs :rollin

Like think about how bad the pistons have been until this year. The Spurs have been just as bad for at least just as long. Hopefully changing our coach does for us what it did for them :rollin

[spurraider21]

damn that Rockets rotation looks dangerous
yep. but they no longer have a FRP this year nor do they currently have one next year (its top 4 protected next year). their ability to land cost controlled talent will be tough unless they start finding ring chasers to join cheap

they do have all their picks from 2027 on, have the suns picks in 27 and 29, and can swap their natural pick with the nets in 27 as well

[heyheymymy]

yep. but they no longer have a FRP this year nor do they currently have one next year (its top 4 protected next year). their ability to land cost controlled talent will be tough unless they start finding ring chasers to join cheap

they do have all their picks from 2027 on, have the suns picks in 27 and 29, and can swap their natural pick with the nets in 27 as well

Good point about the Rocket's future outlook and draft bottleneck. I was thinking how since KD is 37 he won't be a continuing asset for HOU either. Usually a big trade like that another thing in the pro column is later on down the line you can flip the high value acquisition. But most of KD's value might potentially expect to expire with HOU due to age so it seems like an all in move for immediate contention window to the Rockets. Sounds like the pick situation could open up nicely right as the KD window closes but it looks like it is limited in the meantime.

[Dex]

My guess is that the Spurs didn’t make a formal offer. They probably talked hypothetically and the Suns could see the Spurs were not going to give up anything significant so they worked the other teams.

According to Shams this morning, the bidding war came down to Miami and Houston. No mention of San Antonio so either the Spurs didn't make a formal offer, or at least one Phoenix was willing to entertain. Also mentioned Minnesota but Durant pushed back, and Phoenix honored that.

It is what it is. Getting Durant would be exciting, but I'm also okay with us keeping #2 and #14 and continuing to build young instead of trying to rush things. Assuming everyone stays healthy, this group should still be able to be competitive next season.

[scott]

To be fair... this thread only asked if the Spurs could be a good landing place. There was never Durant to the Spurs buzz. 125 pages, spent in vain.

[Pauleta14]

No way on earth Sochan will ever be the 3 point shooter or point of attack defender that Brooks has been in his career.

Sochan will never ever at any point in his career impact winning an losing like Brooks does.

The grizzlies haven't won a playoff game since Brooks left, in part because they haven't been able to find a 3 & D player like him.

The rockets won more games both years he was on the team. They were the laughing stock of the nba and even worse than the spurs until he was one of the veterans that showed up.

Feel how you want about his personality or his antics but I don't see how anyone can deny that Brooks impacts winning and losing. Teams he leaves win less when he's gone teams he goes to win more when he's there.

Sochan at no point in his career so far has contributed to winning. The only noteworthy thing he has done in a spurs uniform is be the tank commander that helped us land Victor.

I'm not even a fan of Brooks tbh but Sochan makes him look like an AllStar

ST and a lot of Spurs fans in general acting like he's just a reliable 3pt shot away from being elite are insane, I'm a lot more concerned by his low IQ, low attention spam, poor handles, inability to create his own (even simple) shot, his clumsiness around the rim (insane amount of missed gimmies) or his poor court awareness making him a liability on offense for the passing game.

His defense is also massively overrated, he can occasionally be great 1v1 but he always misses rotations and lacks the same focus than on offense

That's a lot (too much?) to expect a 180

There's a reason he ended up on the bench despite having ZERO competition at his role/position

[heyheymymy]

Durant was really just a big distraction from draft scouting and prep.

[FkLA]

1937222443875361016

Generational talent begging to come to San Antonio, willing to take less on an extension for the betterment of the team. And they said "nah, we like what we have". Complete lunacy. :pctoss

[RC_Drunkford]

1937222443875361016

Generational talent begging to come to San Antonio, willing to take less on an extension for the betterment of the team. And they said "nah, we like what we have". Complete lunacy. :pctoss

wait til they use the same trade package for RJ Barrett :lol

[Raven]

houston got robbed

[onechance87]

1937222443875361016

Generational talent begging to come to San Antonio, willing to take less on an extension for the betterment of the team. And they said "nah, we like what we have". Complete lunacy. :pctoss

Yup...Wright better have something up his sleeve this offseason.

[Poolboy5623]

For all the fans that didn't want Durant.... I hope I'm wrong but you're going to hate him on the Rockets.

[RC_Drunkford]

Yup...Wright better have something up his sleeve this offseason.

apparently signing Yabusele will be the biggest move of the entire offseason

[rjv]

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQvbQiyTnohDLPCeshQgL0-iRwN42tz9p0w_w&s

[spurraider21]

houston got robbed
houston didnt give up shit :lol

they wanted to dump jalen green's contract anyway. they gave Brooks and #10 for KD while dumping a bad long term contract. which is a home run

[dn0774]

1937222443875361016

Generational talent begging to come to San Antonio, willing to take less on an extension for the betterment of the team. And they said "nah, we like what we have". Complete lunacy. :pctoss

“We just won’t 34 games. Why would we change anything?”

[spurraider21]

“We just won’t 34 games. Why would we change anything?”
wemby only played 46 games this past year

wemby and fox only played together for 5 games

we are about to add a great talent with the #2 pick being handed to us

[spursistan]

My theory for as to why the Spurs didn't push hard for a KD trade: the feedback to RC/Pop from both Kerr and Budenholzer was extremely negative, especially the latter.

Let's be honest Durant has been kinda of a coach-killer ever since he left Golden State. It would be too risky to put his potential baggage on a rookie coach plate on top of the other challenges facing Mitch Johnson..

https://x.com/warriorsworld/status/1937530742810316916

[LeBowen]

In Gotham? :lol

KD is an obvious coach killer, the way he took out Atkinson and then demanded Deandre plays over Claxton was disgusting.

[rjv]

Gotham? Is this about the DC universe version of KD?

[Ice009]

For all the fans that didn't want Durant.... I hope I'm wrong but you're going to hate him on the Rockets.

What, you think Durant is going to torch the Spurs?

[spursistan]

In Gotham? :lol

KD is an obvious coach killer, the way he took out Atkinson and then demanded Deandre plays over Claxton was disgusting.
I think it genuinely played a big part in Spurs (non) interest. Him walking all over Mitch when the goings get tough was always a concern. I'm pretty sure, given how close they are, they sounded out Kerr and Coach Bud and both related some stuff that went behind the scenes when they had him and that eventually put us off..

[vy65]

My theory for as to why the Spurs didn't push hard for a KD trade: the feedback to RC/Pop from both Kerr and Budenholzer was extremely negative, especially the latter.

Let's be honest Durant has been kinda of a coach-killer ever since he left Golden State. It would be too risky to put his potential baggage on a rookie coach plate on top of the other challenges facing Mitch Johnson..

https://x.com/warriorsworld/status/1937530742810316916

Not all that believable because this theory implies Kerr/Bud would share intel with Mitch but not Ime.

[exstatic]

houston didnt give up shit :lol

they wanted to dump jalen green's contract anyway. they gave Brooks and #10 for KD while dumping a bad long term contract. which is a home run

His extension was only 3 years.

[spurraider21]

His extension was only 3 years.
3 years is a long time

[Raven]

houston didnt give up shit :lol

they wanted to dump jalen green's contract anyway. they gave Brooks and #10 for KD while dumping a bad long term contract. which is a home run

durant is easily a bottom 3 contract in the league. I would be surprised if he plays 30 games or more next season. Houston is done.

[exstatic]

3 years is a long time

Not a long term contract, and it’s the shortest extension you can sign.

[spurraider21]

Not a long term contract, and it’s the shortest extension you can sign.
i dont care if its the longest or shortest he can sign. he's under contract for the next 3 seasons. i consider that long term. if you want to quibble over semantics over whether 3 years is or isnt long term, do your thing, but im not interested

[exstatic]

durant is easily a bottom 3 contract in the league. I would be surprised if he plays 30 games or more next season. Houston is done.

Durant has played 137 combined games over the last two seasons. You people need to update your reference material.

[exstatic]

i dont care if its the longest or shortest he can sign. he's under contract for the next 3 seasons. i consider that long term. if you want to quibble over semantics over whether 3 years is or isnt long term, do your thing, but im not interested

You would be in the minority.

[spurraider21]

durant is easily a bottom 3 contract in the league. I would be surprised if he plays 30 games or more next season. Houston is done.
theres nothing "done" since they didnt give up their future

if KD doesnt work out they can move along. now if he signs a max 2 year extension and has a major injury we can revisit

[spurraider21]

You would be in the minority.
so be it

[Ariel]

Not all that believable because this theory implies Kerr/Bud would share intel with Mitch but not Ime.
Ime doesn't need intel since both he and Royal Ivey coached Durant in Brooklyn.

[K...]

we rolling this thread to next season, KD no extension , for the vet min?

[RC_Drunkford]

Ime definitely didn't get brainwashed by Pop

[vy65]

Ime doesn't need intel since both he and Royal Ivey coached Durant in Brooklyn.

Forgot about that. Even stronger proof of my point.

[Raven]

theres nothing "done" since they didnt give up their future

if KD doesnt work out they can move along. now if he signs a max 2 year extension and has a major injury we can revisit

I mean.. they gave up a 23 yold 21ppg player and another good player... yeah jalen green is no young durant but they are getting his post retirement version and they gave up the 2025 pick as well.

tell you what, if they don't make any further moves, i'm calling them out of the playoffs now.

[djohn2oo8]

I mean.. they gave up a 23 yold 21ppg player and another good player... yeah jalen green is no young durant but they are getting his post retirement version and they gave up the 2025 pick as well.

tell you what, if they don't make any further moves, i'm calling them out of the playoffs now.

post retirement version when he just averaged 26 and 6 last year lol which is more than Jalen has ever averaged

[spurraider21]

I mean.. they gave up a 23 yold 21ppg player and another good player... yeah jalen green is no young durant but they are getting his post retirement version and they gave up the 2025 pick as well.

tell you what, if they don't make any further moves, i'm calling them out of the playoffs now.
you think the #2 seed from last year is going to miss the playoffs because they replaced jalen green and dillon brooks with kevin durant?

i'll do a year long sig/avatar bet over that

[Leetonidas]

I mean.. they gave up a 23 yold 21ppg player and another good player... yeah jalen green is no young durant but they are getting his post retirement version and they gave up the 2025 pick as well.

tell you what, if they don't make any further moves, i'm calling them out of the playoffs now.

Do you really think PPG alone really means anything in 2025? Keldon averaged 22ppg in 2023 and he sucks

[LeBowen]

People still falling for Raven's trolling? smh
He's been shitting on Castle in every single game thread this season.
I refuse to believe he's not trolling, noone can have so many awful takes.

[poopbox]

The amount of copium being inhaled in this thread by some of the people saying they didn't even want KD :rollin

B-b-but but Houston traded their future to win now and no one can beat the big bad thunder what's the point :rollin

B-b-but they traded a former top 5 pick who is still young and has room to improve :rollin

Green aint did shit in the nba but get sexually groomed by his former babysitter

[scott]

Raven thinks that Devin Vassell is "very good, consistently", so naturally he/she would value Jalen Green.

[Raven]

you think the #2 seed from last year is going to miss the playoffs because they replaced jalen green and dillon brooks with kevin durant?

i'll do a year long sig/avatar bet over that

no, i'm still betting on long odds, but i see things quickly spiraling for them next year.

[Raven]

post retirement version when he just averaged 26 and 6 last year lol which is more than Jalen has ever averaged

well unfortunately for you, last year isn't next year

[Spurs Homer]

Thanks to the universe...
i am amazed that people here still dont see KD as already having fallen off the cliff and built him up to somehow be a very valuable piece...
i dont see it...

also- wemby has to be top dog here - no ifs,ands, or buts - putting an aging KD on the court next to wemby was kinda counter-productive imo - i know the experts imagined some kind of magic - but i doubt it would have been good for wemby..

finally, glad to keep barnes, sochan and even keldon ...

but maybe there is still a chance vassell and the #14 pick are used for a good veteran?


I read what wemby said regarding another star and remembered this…

[BatManu20]

Yea PHX is high. This was never happening.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Gw1JSNuaUAAiW22?format=jpg&name=medium

[exstatic]

Yea PHX is high. This was never happening.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Gw1JSNuaUAAiW22?format=jpg&name=medium

Yeah, they got a lot less than that, in the end.

[Leetonidas]

Yea PHX is high. This was never happening.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Gw1JSNuaUAAiW22?format=jpg&name=medium

Spurs were right to tell them to eat shit then

[TimmyBuckets]

Yea PHX is high. This was never happening.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Gw1JSNuaUAAiW22?format=jpg&name=medium

Surprised ST isn't losing their minds over Spurs not making this deal considering how low they value Spurs' players. If this said 2 picks instead of 3, ST would be losing their minds that Spurs didn't make it happen.

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

Vassell Barnes sochan and 3 firsts? All day every day

[Jordan Jackson]

Vassell Barnes sochan and 3 firsts? All day every day

They’re betting they can get someone better (younger) with that package. Throw in Kelly’s expiring. They would be right to wait.

[Ice009]

Surprised ST isn't losing their minds over Spurs not making this deal considering how low they value Spurs' players. If this said 2 picks instead of 3, ST would be losing their minds that Spurs didn't make it happen.

Yeah, no. I don't think anyone would have been OK with that trade if it was just two first round picks instead of 3 with all those players.

I would not have included Steph under any circumstance (no chance in h#ll) and I wouldn't have included more than 1 first round pick. I would have been reluctant to include Jeremy too. Harrison, I don't want to go either, but unfortunately his salary may have been needed.

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

If we got Durant we'd be counting on our own firsts to suck for some time

[KobesAchilles]

Yea PHX is high. This was never happening.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Gw1JSNuaUAAiW22?format=jpg&name=medium
What a total clickbait. I’m sure that’s what they asked for. It would be dumb of them not to ask for that. You always ask high at the start of a negotiation. But there’s no way that was the final deal on the phone the Spurs had to give in order to get Durant.

[exstatic]

If we got Durant we'd be counting on our own firsts to suck for some time

So many teams that made that assumption got burned, Nets, and yes, the Suns, and then they scrambled to get those picks, or at least some of them back.

[Notorious H.O.P.]

I can't even imagine the collective orgasm of this forum if Phoenix had asked for Vassell, Sochan, Johnson, Branham and the 14th pick for Durant.

[Ariel]

What a total clickbait. I’m sure that’s what they asked for. It would be dumb of them not to ask for that. You always ask high at the start of a negotiation. But there’s no way that was the final deal on the phone the Spurs had to give in order to get Durant.
That's not high, that's delusional. And no, you don't always start that high if you want the other party to counter rather than laughing and hanging up.

[Joseph Kony]

I can't even imagine the collective orgasm of this forum if Phoenix had asked for Vassell, Sochan, Johnson, Branham and the 14th pick for Durant.

Majority of ST is out on Vassell/Keldon at this point but many would not be happy with including Sochan in that package, an i'd probably agree with them imho

[KobesAchilles]

That's not high, that's delusional. And no, you don't always start that high if you want the other party to counter rather than laughing and hanging up.
Once upon a time the Spurs got 4 FRPs for Dejounte. Delusion is in the eye of the buyer tbh

[Ariel]

Once upon a time the Spurs got 4 FRPs for Dejounte. Delusion is in the eye of the buyer tbh
That never happened, it was 3 picks (one of which wasn't guaranteed to convey -- and didn't) plus a swap.

[KobesAchilles]

That never happened, it was 3 picks (one of which wasn't guaranteed to convey -- and didn't) plus a swap.
Semantics. The point is that there could be some stupid team out there that make that trade. And you’d never know unless you ask. Today NO would have to give up a FRP to get rid of DJ. Ffs they traded an unprotected 2026 FRP for McQueen. Other teams are stupid and do stupid things. The Bucks gave away their rights to their 28,29,30 FRPs to the Blazers WHILE trading away the better player in Holiday and then cut him and are on the hook for him for the next 5 seasons. Hell Mikel Bridges (who has never sniffed an all star game in his life) got traded for 5 FRPs. You think the Nets said well we want 2 FRPs and the Knicks were like eh we will give you 5. No they probably asked for 5 FRPs for the dude and found the sucker team to take him.

[tbdog]

Semantics. The point is that there could be some stupid team out there that make that trade. And you’d never know unless you ask. Today NO would have to give up a FRP to get rid of DJ. Ffs they traded an unprotected 2026 FRP for McQueen. Other teams are stupid and do stupid things. The Bucks gave away their rights to their 28,29,30 FRPs to the Blazers WHILE trading away the better player in Holiday and then cut him and are on the hook for him for the next 5 seasons. Hell Mikel Bridges (who has never sniffed an all star game in his life) got traded for 5 FRPs. You think the Nets said well we want 2 FRPs and the Knicks were like eh we will give you 5. No they probably asked for 5 FRPs for the dude and found the sucker team to take him.

Just on Bridges. It was his contract that was a huge plus. He was this elite 3&D player one a good contract, which meant the Knicks could fit other players into their team salary. Unfortunately his D never returned so his contract is about right now.

[KobesAchilles]

Just on Bridges. It was his contract that was a huge plus. He was this elite 3&D player one a good contract, which meant the Knicks could fit other players into their team salary. Unfortunately his D never returned so his contract is about right now.
I’m not saying he’s a bad player. But 5 draft picks? 5? You think any other team was that desperate if the Nets asked for 5 FRPs? They probably laughed and hung up. But not the Knicks

[talkspurs]

I’m not saying he’s a bad player. But 5 draft picks? 5? You think any other team was that desperate if the Nets asked for 5 FRPs? They probably laughed and hung up. But not the Knicks

You do realize we gave up 4 first for Fox right? I know several will disagree with me but I have never thought the fox trade was a good trade for us. He only has one all star game. I know some will say the Charlotte pick should not count as it would not convey but we also gave a couple good 2nd round picks.

[exstatic]

You do realize we gave up 4 first for Fox right? I know several will disagree with me but I have never thought the fox trade was a good trade for us. He only has one all star game. I know some will say the Charlotte pick should not count as it would not convey but we also gave a couple good 2nd round picks.

If you’re counting the Charlotte one, that’s foolishness. CHA was already clearly going to be in the lottery by the trade deadline. That was absolutely going to convey as two seconds. If we had kept the Chicago pick, the same thing would have happened. They only put on a finishing kick when they got their pick back. A 39-43 team finished 18-15, and made the play in.

[spurraider21]

If you’re counting the Charlotte one, that’s foolishness. CHA was already clearly going to be in the lottery by the trade deadline. That was absolutely going to convey as two seconds. If we had kept the Chicago pick, the same thing would have happened. They only put on a finishing kick when they got their pick back. A 39-43 team finished 18-15, and made the play in.
the trade was made in the offseason and there were 3 years worth of protections, so i dont think you can write it off in hindsight. even if it didnt seem likely at all to convey in 2023, two years past that is a long time

[talkspurs]

If you’re counting the Charlotte one, that’s foolishness. CHA was already clearly going to be in the lottery by the trade deadline. That was absolutely going to convey as two seconds. If we had kept the Chicago pick, the same thing would have happened. They only put on a finishing kick when they got their pick back. A 39-43 team finished 18-15, and made the play in.

Charlotte I was kind of excluding as I agree that one would not have conveyed. Chicago still had 2 more years to convey. Also when you look back it will still show as 4 first round picks.

[Seventyniner]

Charlotte I was kind of excluding as I agree that one would not have conveyed. Chicago still had 2 more years to convey. Also when you look back it will still show as 4 first round picks.

I would call it something like 2.7 or 2.8 firsts. CHA25 never had a chance, SA27 and MIN31 were guaranteed to convey, and CHI25(/26/27) had about a 70-80% chance of eventually conveying.

[Ariel]

If you’re counting the Charlotte one, that’s foolishness. CHA was already clearly going to be in the lottery by the trade deadline. That was absolutely going to convey as two seconds. If we had kept the Chicago pick, the same thing would have happened. They only put on a finishing kick when they got their pick back. A 39-43 team finished 18-15, and made the play in.
I agree with the Charlotte pick not conveying and the fact that sending Chicago their pick back had a huge influence in them falling outside protections, they probably would have tanked ever so slightly to fall within the protections. But that pick had a decent chance of conveying in the next couple of years. All in all, it's probably better portrayed as 3 firsts (one high variance -Minnesota-, one reasonably good -Chicago-, another low upside -Spurs-) plus 4 seconds (Charlotte pick counts as 2 seconds)

[Mr. Body]

You do realize we gave up 4 first for Fox right? I know several will disagree with me but I have never thought the fox trade was a good trade for us. He only has one all star game. I know some will say the Charlotte pick should not count as it would not convey but we also gave a couple good 2nd round picks.

I'm not a huge fan of Fox and think this may still turn out not that entirely great. But as others have said, it's really just the SAS's own pick a couple years from now and the Dillingham pick. Obviously that Minnesota pick could turn out to be really good, but probably not. The CHI pick would be late lotto at best this year or otherwise.

It's a really good deal, even if DAF is a vanishing archetype in the NBA, a poor-defense, non-PG, high volume scorer.

[KobesAchilles]

You do realize we gave up 4 first for Fox right? I know several will disagree with me but I have never thought the fox trade was a good trade for us. He only has one all star game. I know some will say the Charlotte pick should not count as it would not convey but we also gave a couple good 2nd round picks.
I do realize that. But what is slightly different between us and the Knicks is that we don’t give away 4 of our own draft picks. The Knicks literally gave up all their picks. We just gave up one of our own picks (in a season where we still have another pick) so it’s not quite the same. But yes on paper we traded away 4 FRPs.

Which is why it is smart for the Suns to ask for the moon. You never know which team will say yes.

[Uriel]

Yea PHX is high. This was never happening.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Gw1JSNuaUAAiW22?format=jpg&name=medium
And the Spurs’ reported offer was what? Vassell, Barnes, and #14?

That means if the two sides had decided to meet in the middle, then the final trade would’ve been something like Vassell, Barnes, Sochan, #14, and a future first round pick.

Would that have been a good deal for the Spurs? Is it better than what the Suns got out of Houston?