Phoenix Suns expect to part ways with Kevin Durant this offseason. Could the Spurs be a good landing place?

[spurraider21]

are we still doing the SF sochan stuff? :lol

[LeBowen]

are we still doing the SF sochan stuff? :lol

I'm just curbing my expectations, I'd rather trade Sochan than #14, but we know that won't happen.

[Dejounte]

Yoooo if we get both Okongwu and KD i would be in dreamland

[td4mvp2k]

giving up a lotto pick for an old injury prone kd who has maybe two high level yrs left is nonsense i'd be surprised if houston is even offering theirs

[Seventyniner]

are we still doing the SF sochan stuff? :lol

Wemby plays like a center on defense but like a wing on offense. Sochan is the opposite.

If Sochan can't start alongside Fox/Castle/KD/Wemby then he can't start at all, and his greatest strength (guarding the opponent's best perimeter scorer) is mostly nullified.

[spurraider21]

giving up a lotto pick for an old injury prone kd who has maybe two high level yrs left is nonsense i'd be surprised if houston is even offering theirs
giving up an end of lotto pick for a rental of an all-nba caliber player is a fine deal

[RC_Drunkford]

If you can get KD for #14 you do it.

Word is KD doesn’t want to go to Houston. He wants San Antonio. And that gives the Spurs more leverage.

1930265754697392520

[SpursFan86]

1930318123502108825

Too much smoke for there not to be somewhat of a fire…definitely feels like these conversations are happening. Based on Pop’s affinity for KD and wanting a veteran presence for Wemby and the youngsters it just makes sense. Unless they’re insanely high on someone at 14 I feel like this deal is getting done.

Pretty exciting stuff. Wemby learning from KD could be incredible.

[LeBowen]

Pretty exciting stuff. Wemby learning from KD could be incredible.

Can't wait for him to take the hardest road after we lose to 76 win OKC in 2032.

[td4mvp2k]

giving up an end of lotto pick for a rental of an all-nba caliber player is a fine deal
all nba diva sure but he's not all nba caliber anymore.. spurs wouldnt be that dumb to trade away a likely future long term starter pick for that anti spur.. and if he really has narrowed it down to spurs then you should be able to get him for alot less.

[pookenstein]

1930318123502108825

Too much smoke for there not to be somewhat of a fire…definitely feels like these conversations are happening. Based on Pop’s affinity for KD and wanting a veteran presence for Wemby and the youngsters it just makes sense. Unless they’re insanely high on someone at 14 I feel like this deal is getting done.

Pretty exciting stuff. Wemby learning from KD could be incredible.

Replace HB with KJ and I'll sign off on this.

[pookenstein]

1930318123502108825

Too much smoke for there not to be somewhat of a fire…definitely feels like these conversations are happening. Based on Pop’s affinity for KD and wanting a veteran presence for Wemby and the youngsters it just makes sense. Unless they’re insanely high on someone at 14 I feel like this deal is getting done.

Pretty exciting stuff. Wemby learning from KD could be incredible.

Replace HB with KJ and I'll sign off on this.

[exstatic]

Replace HB with KJ and I'll sign off on this.

Send HB, and KJ can be used in a future trade.

[spurraider21]

all nba diva sure but he's not all nba caliber anymore.. spurs wouldnt be that dumb to trade away a likely future long term starter pick for that anti spur.. and if he really has narrowed it down to spurs then you should be able to get him for alot less.
hes absolutely all-nba caliber. he missed the games played req by 3 so he couldt get votes this year. but he was 6th in the league in scoring at 26.6 ppg on 53/43/84 splits. he's still an elite, elite scorer. almost certainly would have made 3rd team over Harden

when he was eligible the year prior he cracked the second team with near identical production

[spurraider21]

nobody is discussing the 190 IQ, 7D chess strat for the durant trade

is it short sighted to make our team better right now at the expense of the future? well, if we become significantly better this coming season, then we exercise our swap with ATL and send them as shitty a pick as possible, making it harder for them to improve their team. this helps the outlook of the 2027 hawks pick

[exstatic]

all nba diva sure but he's not all nba caliber anymore.. spurs wouldnt be that dumb to trade away a likely future long term starter pick for that anti spur.. and if he really has narrowed it down to spurs then you should be able to get him for alot less.

One end of lottery pick is a pretty low price for KD.

I’ve never been the biggest KD fan, and I’ve been critical of some of his sideline shenanigans, both in PHO, and this year slide ASG, but if you can flip a late lottery pick for a HOF player putting up 26/6/4 on 53/43/84 shooting splits, you do it.

[vy65]

1930318123502108825

Too much smoke for there not to be somewhat of a fire…definitely feels like these conversations are happening. Based on Pop’s affinity for KD and wanting a veteran presence for Wemby and the youngsters it just makes sense. Unless they’re insanely high on someone at 14 I feel like this deal is getting done.

Pretty exciting stuff. Wemby learning from KD could be incredible.

randymarshcoveredinsemen.gif

[vy65]

nobody is discussing the 190 IQ, 7D chess strat for the durant trade

is it short sighted to make our team better right now at the expense of the future? well, if we become significantly better this coming season, then we exercise our swap with ATL and send them as shitty a pick as possible, making it harder for them to improve their team. this helps the outlook of the 2027 hawks pick

And, Wemby & co need actual playoff experience. Not play-in. Playoff. You saw what happened to a Rockets team that was ranked second in the west during their first play off run this year. Same thing happened to OKC last year. Wemby's peers (Amen, Chet, Ant, etc...) are getting playoff reps while Wemby isn't. Being in meaningful games and having an influence like KD there to sherpa you through the growing pains will pay dividends down the line. This isn't a situation like TD coming to an already-playoff tested team, more like the opposite.

[dbestpro]

1930318123502108825

Too much smoke for there not to be somewhat of a fire…definitely feels like these conversations are happening. Based on Pop’s affinity for KD and wanting a veteran presence for Wemby and the youngsters it just makes sense. Unless they’re insanely high on someone at 14 I feel like this deal is getting done.

Pretty exciting stuff. Wemby learning from KD could be incredible.
I would rather keep Barnes and send Johnson.

[LeBowen]

And, Wemby & co need actual playoff experience. Not play-in. Playoff. You saw what happened to a Rockets team that was ranked second in the west during their first play off run this year. Same thing happened to OKC last year. Wemby's peers (Amen, Chet, Ant, etc...) are getting playoff reps while Wemby isn't. Being in meaningful games and having an influence like KD there to sherpa you through the growing pains will pay dividends down the line. This isn't a situation like TD coming to an already-playoff tested team, more like the opposite.

Agreed and unlike some people, I don't think we need to make all the trades this summer.
KD pretty much guarantees we'll make the playoffs, but no way we'd be a legit contender right away, regardless of other moves.
Noone has any experience, coach included.

Get KD, draft Harper, sign a solid bench wing if the money is right and find Wemby's backup. That should be enough, then we go from there.
If we go on a roll and are a top4 seed at the deadline, we can easily make another move, but there's no need to waste assets too early.

I'd just feel bad for Barnes if he gets moved for KD yet again, hopefully Keldon would be the other player going out.

[scott]

Replace HB with KJ and I'll sign off on this.

I would also prefer to send KJ instead of HB (personally I want HB on our team), but my guess is that HB's expiring is positive value that makes this trade work for PHX.

[RC_Drunkford]

it's all about aligning timelines. We got the

Wemby/Castle/Harper timeline: Next 10-15 years

Fox timeline: next 5 years

KD timeline: next 3 years

By the time KD expires, his salary comes off the books and we can extend Castle, while still having enough cap space to reload. This move is a no brainer. Doesn't matter who's there at #14.

[exstatic]

I would rather keep Barnes and send Johnson.

My guess is that Phoenix, hemorrhaging money and in the second apron, would prefer Barnes contract so that it rolls off in 2026.

[Guru of Nothing]

So how close does the salary cap arithmetic have to be for a deal to send Durant to SA?

Durant's salary for the upcoming season is $54.7M, and meanwhile Vassell = 27.0; Barnes = 19.0, KJ = 17.5, Sochan = 7.1, Branham = 5.0, and Wesley = 4.7

[Guru of Nothing]

.

[RC_Drunkford]

So how close does the salary cap arithmetic have to be for a deal to send Durant to SA?

Durant's salary for the upcoming season is $54.7M, and meanwhile Vassell = 27.0; Barnes = 19.0, KJ = 17.5, Sochan = 7.1, Branham = 5.0, and Wesley = 4.7

Spurs can absorb 11 million into capspace. They have to send out at least 43 million.

so any combination of Vassell + Keldon or Barnes

or Keldon, Barnes, Branham, Wesley

or Keldon, Barnes, Sochan

Keeping Vassell around would give us some cap problems to fill out the roster, so option 1 is most likely.

[td4mvp2k]

hes absolutely all-nba caliber. he missed the games played req by 3 so he couldt get votes this year. but he was 6th in the league in scoring at 26.6 ppg on 53/43/84 splits. he's still an elite, elite scorer. almost certainly would have made 3rd team over Harden

when he was eligible the year prior he cracked the second team with near identical productionwoulda shoulda but wasnt an all nba player nor did he even have a winning season with a healthy booker and beal as his team mates. aint nobody voting for this guy anymore. expect those numbers to decline btw

[td4mvp2k]

One end of lottery pick is a pretty low price for KD.

I’ve never been the biggest KD fan, and I’ve been critical of some of his sideline shenanigans, both in PHO, and this year slide ASG, but if you can flip a late lottery pick for a HOF player putting up 26/6/4 on 53/43/84 shooting splits, you do it.
for vassell sure get rid of him but not this yrs lotto pick especially when they dont have any longterm starter who can fill a position of need in the lineup

[Kevin]

This is why I always included HB in deals over KJ. Better player on a shorter deal so of course other teams prefer him over Keldon. Never had an axe to grind with HB. He’s the better asset

[cd98]

it's all about aligning timelines. We got the

Wemby/Castle/Harper timeline: Next 10-15 years

Fox timeline: next 5 years

KD timeline: next 3 years

By the time KD expires, his salary comes off the books and we can extend Castle, while still having enough cap space to reload. This move is a no brainer. Doesn't matter who's there at #14.

Well, Spurs roster changes significantly when they need to pay Wemby the supermax. It will definitely impact their ability to keep both Castle and Harper if they become all stars.

[cd98]

Suns need Barnes's salary because they are way over the cap and they need expiring contracts.

[spurraider21]

woulda shoulda but wasnt an all nba player nor did he even have a winning season with a healthy booker and beal as his team mates. aint nobody voting for this guy anymore. expect those numbers to decline btw
my guy he wasnt eligible. and he was all nba 2nd team with the same productivity a year ago

its also very dumb and simplistic to equate not making the all-nba team with not being all-nba caliber. which is akin to saying Jokic didnt just have an mvp caliber season

[exstatic]

woulda shoulda but wasnt an all nba player nor did he even have a winning season with a healthy booker and beal as his team mates. aint nobody voting for this guy anymore. expect those numbers to decline btw

He would 100% been selected had he hit the 65 game threshold.

[Mnky]

When are people going to come to terms with the fact that most teams have about a 2-3 year window to compete for a ring. Wemby may never get to compete later in his career because of the massive contract he will have. People need to realize this. Let's say you hit on #14 and it's another star player. He's going to want star money. You're already loaded with Supermax Wemby, Castle, Harper, Fox.. Teams can't win with the supermax. Wemby is getting it sooner rather than later. If you can get a certified guaranteed star or fringe superstar, you do it. You can't keep fringe stars with a supermax player. Once you have those top 3, its just filling out role players. This board is obsessed with finding a star at all 5 positions and on the bench. It's hilariously impractical.

If they have a chance to win a ring within 3 years, you take it while Wemby is on his rookie contract. Spurs may never have that opportunity to stack talent financially as long as Wemby is on the team again. Teams are trading their stars away at a record pace because the new aprons gut them. They pay way more than they want to for fielding a competitive team. It was designed so a dynasty doesn't exist. Get used to it. Owners aren't in the business of losing money... Stars will continue to move. You just can't afford to keep more than a couple. The last four teams in the playoffs haven't paid their stars yet or they took a team friendly contract and even then, each of them will have to gut something next year.

It is what it is.

Go for the ring.

[exstatic]

This is why I always included HB in deals over KJ. Better player on a shorter deal so of course other teams prefer him over Keldon. Never had an axe to grind with HB. He’s the better asset

Phoenix would prefer him over Keldon simply because he’s an ending contract. They don’t care about which player is best, they just need to shed salary.

[scott]

it's all about aligning timelines. We got the

Wemby/Castle/Harper timeline: Next 10-15 years

Fox timeline: next 5 years

KD timeline: next 3 years

By the time KD expires, his salary comes off the books and we can extend Castle, while still having enough cap space to reload. This move is a no brainer. Doesn't matter who's there at #14.

Duncan and Hollinger Podcast that just dropped ("Trade Candidates of the 2025 Offseason") poses an interesting strategy... maybe the Spurs look at the next decade and decides to pair Wemby/Castle/Harper with 3 different mid-30s star vets who are at the tail end of the career and theoretically we can acquire for a discount. KD would be the first, then when that is up we flip Fox for the next guy, and then there is someone else after that.

Interesting team building philosophy that I'm into. With Wemby, Castle and Harper on rookie deals we can afford to double up with KD and Fox now, but as those guys mature we'll need to move more towards having just one of them on a non-max contract... but definitely doable.

[DAF86]

Realistically, how expensive can Durant be? I imagine it can't be much. I would offer Vassel, Keldon, a first rounder and that's it. Teams would be crazy to offer much more than that for a 37 year old on a 50 million per year contract, tbh.

[DAF86]

Another thing to consider is that we really need to be good this upcoming season for the swap with the Hawks to have any value. I'd say, just go for it.

I would prefer not to give up #14 and part with Keldon instead of Barnes, though.

[scott]

Realistically, how expensive can Durant be? I imagine it can't be much. I would offer Vassel, Keldon, a first rounder and that's it. Teams would be crazy to offer much more than that for a 37 year old on a 50 million per year contract, tbh.

It's a great mystery. No one on this board has ever thought about it before.

[td4mvp2k]

my guy he wasnt eligible. and he was all nba 2nd team with the same productivity a year ago

its also very dumb and simplistic to equate not making the all-nba team with not being all-nba caliber. which is akin to saying Jokic didnt just have an mvp caliber season
actually its very simplistic your either all nba or your not he aint on that level no more period and its on the way down from here. dont compare him to jokic tbh its not even close.

[RC_Drunkford]

Well, Spurs roster changes significantly when they need to pay Wemby the supermax. It will definitely impact their ability to keep both Castle and Harper if they become all stars.

this is why I still fear that we might trade #2. Especially cause reports are now saying the Nets are shopping Cam Johnson and #19 to acquire another top 10 pick.

I‘m team draft Harper and figure it out later, but Brian Wright might think different.

[td4mvp2k]

He would 100% been selected had he hit the 65 game threshold.
100% disagree.. he's nicknamed durbeta for a reason

[spurraider21]

actually its very simplistic your either all nba or your not he aint on that level no more period and its on the way down from here. dont compare him to jokic tbh its not even close.
i didnt compare him to jokic

you need to read a little more carefully dude

[td4mvp2k]

i didnt compare him to jokic

you need to read a little more carefully dude
sure you didnt :tu

[spurraider21]

sure you didnt :tu
do you think wembanyama is a DPOY caliber player?

[td4mvp2k]

do you think wembanyama is a DPOY caliber player?
deflecting now i see

[DPG21920]

I dont want to give up pick 14, but understand if we do. Vassell + Branham + Barnes for KD makes most sense to me and that’s where I draw the line (maybe a pick 38 as well). Spurs would be paying KD the same money those 3 make essentially and that’s fine and it’s no long term commitments now (KD expiring).

Still not sure it makes a ton of sense, but I prefer getting KD for something like that than getting Giannis for Pick 2 + pick 14 + another 2 firsts + Dev + Sochan + Barnes

[exstatic]

this is why I still fear that we might trade #2. Especially cause reports are now saying the Nets are shopping Cam Johnson and #19 to acquire another top 10 pick.

I‘m team draft Harper and figure it out later, but Brian Wright might think different.

You can get Durant, extend him two years, and he’s still off your books before Castle’s extension, which is a year before Harper’s extension. You extend Fox, and the work with Klutch to find him a landing spot before Harper’s extension kicks in.

[spurraider21]

deflecting now i see
im making a very straightforward point. you recognize it and therefore are now refusing to answer the question

my argument is that Durant is an all-nba caliber player. you said no he isnt because he didnt make the all-nba team. to point out how silly that is, im showing you think its not as simple as "did he actually win said award or not" to support a claim that he is that caliber a player.

therefore im drawing an analogy to other awards. is wembanyama not a DPOY caliber player just because he didnt win the DPOY this year? did jokic not have an mvp caliber season this season because Shai won the award?

note that this is not a comparison of durant to jokic or durant to wemby. it is merely exploring the logic of your position

[dubross]

At minimum I think the spurs are giving up Vassell and the 14th for KD. then you add either Barnes or
KJ to that and maybe a couple of 2nd rd picks since we have a bunch.

[Leetonidas]

We're getting KD aren't we?

Finally we'll be back in the fucking playoffs next season

[scott]

spurraider21 your patience is commendable

[Mr. Body]

It's hard to believe Houston can't beat that.

[exstatic]

I dont want to give up pick 14, but understand if we do. Vassell + Branham + Barnes for KD makes most sense to me and that’s where I draw the line (maybe a pick 38 as well). Spurs would be paying KD the same money those 3 make essentially and that’s fine and it’s no long term commitments now (KD expiring).

Still not sure it makes a ton of sense, but I prefer getting KD for something like that than getting Giannis for Pick 2 + pick 14 + another 2 firsts + Dev + Sochan + Barnes

We currently have ten players under contract. If you unnecessarily throw Branham in, you leave yourself with 8 players under contract after the deal.

[RC_Drunkford]

You can get Durant, extend him two years, and he’s still off your books before Castle’s extension, which is a year before Harper’s extension. You extend Fox, and the work with Klutch to find him a landing spot before Harper’s extension kicks in.

I know. But having Fox, Wemby, Castle and Harper max extensions kicking in back to back won’t be that easy to offset, although it works in theory if you trade Fox in the offseason where Harper‘s extension kicks in.

I‘m just saying what if the Spurs value keeping Vassell, drafting 2 guys in the top 10 with All-Star potential who you won’t have to max out on their first extensions and getting future draft assets more than drafting Harper?

[Ariel]

Duncan and Hollinger Podcast that just dropped ("Trade Candidates of the 2025 Offseason") poses an interesting strategy... maybe the Spurs look at the next decade and decides to pair Wemby/Castle/Harper with 3 different mid-30s star vets who are at the tail end of the career and theoretically we can acquire for a discount. KD would be the first, then when that is up we flip Fox for the next guy, and then there is someone else after that.

Interesting team building philosophy that I'm into. With Wemby, Castle and Harper on rookie deals we can afford to double up with KD and Fox now, but as those guys mature we'll need to move more towards having just one of them on a non-max contract... but definitely doable.
Problem is:
1) Wemby gets paid in 2 years (30% of the cap, assuming DPOY at least)
2) Fox gets extended as soon as next season (30% of the cap, assuming wink wink deal at the time of the trade)

That gives the Spurs a 2 year window to exploit this to their advantage, in 3/4 years Spurs will be in the same boat as everybody else. So while it is reasonable to assume there will be players Spurs can get at a discount (Fox, probably KD now), if they're aging stars then probably their cost of acquisition will be rendered moot by their salary cap implications.

Since I don't really believe Spurs can realistically win in this window, I'd probably favor using this time to acquire youngish vets that fit alongside the young core (low usage wings and forwards who can defend, rebound, shoot, have something above their shoulders) and can grow with them.

If Spurs clog their cap sheets with overpaid vets, it's going to be difficult to find these important pieces and you'll end up building more like the Lakers (high profile core, lots of min vets) than OKC (some young top end talent, but lots of high level role players that really make sense around them). I prefer the latter model, but if the price is low enough I guess you have to take whatever opportunity comes your way.

[SpursFan86]

It's hard to believe Houston can't beat that.

Minnesota and likely a couple other teams will be in the mix as well. Shams reported today that he expects there to be 4-6 strong suitors for KD. It’s not like we’ll be the only ones making Phoenix offers.

That being said, some of the rumors have pointed to SA being the preferred destination. If KD makes it clear he won’t sign an extension elsewhere and has no interest being there, I have to imagine that will scare other teams off.

[td4mvp2k]

im making a very straightforward point. you recognize it and therefore are now refusing to answer the question

my argument is that Durant is an all-nba caliber player. you said no he isnt because he didnt make the all-nba team. to point out how silly that is, im showing you think its not as simple as "did he actually win said award or not" to support a claim that he is that caliber a player.

therefore im drawing an analogy to other awards. is wembanyama not a DPOY caliber player just because he didnt win the DPOY this year? did jokic not have an mvp caliber season this season because Shai won the award?

note that this is not a comparison of durant to jokic or durant to wemby. it is merely exploring the logic of your position
listen i know its hard for you to understand and it hurts you that i pointed out that fact but to even put them in the same category at this point is dumb tbh

[exstatic]

It's hard to believe Houston can't beat that.

Durant supposedly doesn’t want Houston.

[Dejounte]

They call me a contrarian LeBowen

[spurraider21]

listen i know its hard for you to understand and it hurts you that i pointed out that fact but to even put them in the same category at this point is dumb tbh
i didnt put them in the same category. i couldnt have laid it out more clearly than i just did

you're either trolling at this point or simply incapable of having a conversation

[Frenchfred]

Problem is:
1) Wemby gets paid in 2 years (30% of the cap, assuming DPOY at least)
2) Fox gets extended as soon as next season (30% of the cap, assuming wink wink deal at the time of the trade)

That gives the Spurs a 2 year window to exploit this to their advantage, in 3/4 years Spurs will be in the same boat as everybody else. So while it is reasonable to assume there will be players Spurs can get at a discount (Fox, probably KD now), if they're aging stars then probably their cost of acquisition will be rendered moot by their salary cap implications.

Since I don't really believe Spurs can realistically win in this window, I'd probably favor using this time to acquire youngish vets that fit alongside the young core (low usage wings and forwards who can defend, rebound, shoot, have something above their shoulders) and can grow with them.

If Spurs clog their cap sheets with overpaid vets, it's going to be difficult to find these important pieces and you'll end up building more like the Lakers (high profile core, lots of min vets) than OKC (some young top end talent, but lots of high level role players that really make sense around them). I prefer the latter model, but if the price is low enough I guess you have to take whatever opportunity comes your way.

A team with Fox, Castle, KD and Wemby can play for the title if they can also find a backup 4-5.

[td4mvp2k]

i didnt put them in the same category. i couldnt have laid it out more clearly than i just did

you're either trolling at this point or simply incapable of having a conversation
im not the one deflecting like you are.. i couldnt of been more clear as well tbh

[spurraider21]

this will go well

1930364110006563043

[Mr. Body]

Durant supposedly doesn’t want Houston.

Like with Fox, I have to think the ability to offer an extension plays a major part. Not dinging those guys, they're being pragmatic.

[exstatic]

Like with Fox, I have to think the ability to offer an extension plays a major part. Not dinging those guys, they're being pragmatic.

Yup. That’s today’s NBA. If you’re approaching the end of your contract, you have all of the leverage.

[exstatic]

this will go well

1930364110006563043
He’s been an owner for like 5 minutes. He managed to sit on his hands for 5 minutes.

[OldMan88]

If Wemby wants to win multiple championships, he’ll need to be willing to sacrifice some salary to be able to fund quality supporting team members. Same as DROB & TD did. As far as being rich is concerned, getting paid $500M vs $300M isn’t dramatically different as far as quality of life is concerned. However, if his ego demands the $$$ as being his scorecard instead of the number of championships, the Spurs may not be willing to play that game.

[exstatic]

If Wemby wants to win multiple championships, he’ll need to be willing to sacrifice some salary to be able to fund quality supporting team members. Same as DROB & TD did. As far as being rich is concerned, getting paid $500M vs $300M isn’t dramatically different as far as quality of life is concerned. However, if his ego demands the $$$ as being his scorecard instead of the number of championships, the Spurs may not be willing to play that game.

Tim got full maximum salary and raises for his first 13 seasons. Before the CBA had a lot of salary rules, David had a contract that paid him the average of the top 2 salaries in the league. Neither one of them gave up much until very late in their careers.

[SpursFan86]

1930371485727895565

Stumbled across this. Don’t really know who this guy is and he doesn’t have a big following, but he is being followed by Jonathon Givony of ESPN/DraftExpress…so maybe not totally full of shit? Figured I’d post either way.

[ace3g]

1930371485727895565

Stumbled across this. Don’t really know who this guy is and he doesn’t have a big following, but he is being followed by Jonathon Givony of ESPN/DraftExpress…so maybe not totally full of shit? Figured I’d post either way.

Need to include the entire url in the brackets.

[Robz4000]

1930371485727895565

Stumbled across this. Don’t really know who this guy is and he doesn’t have a big following, but he is being followed by Jonathon Givony of ESPN/DraftExpress…so maybe not totally full of shit? Figured I’d post either way.

Only trust tspence tbh.

[DAF86]

It's a great mystery. No one on this board has ever thought about it before.

I'm too lazy to read all the previous posts, tbh. :lol

[objective]

Winning now/next 2 years makes sense.

A lot of people seem to think the Spurs still wouldn't contend with Durant, that they'd be too young, too inexperienced.

I disagree

OKC is proving that winning young is possible.

What was Daignault's playoff record before this season? One series win against a joke Pelicans team, and now he's on the verge of being a title winning coach.

That one series win of experience counts for all the players too, except SGA had 6 playoff games as a Clippers rookie and 7 in his first okc year.

They added 2 key rotation pieces in Hartenstein and Caruso, and it's been plug and play, no need to wait years for chemistry to kick in.

And a Spurs team with Durant and Fox won't be lacking in veteran knowledge. And they still would have a shot at adding a good veteran back up center like Brook Lopez.

Would it be better if they could snap their fingers and get PJ Washington to sign an under market 4 year extension with SA after a trade? Probably, yes. But that's probably not happening. Getting core pieces for the future at a bargain price is a great goal, but real life steps in to make it hard so take what you can while you can.

Hell, I'd love John Collins. But Collins isn't going to opt out to lose $10 million a year to sign with SA. Even if you trade for him, is he going to give a discount off the 25+ a year he's used to?

The key to this next stretch of years and the NBA adjusting to the new cap realities is what Nate Duncan called teams needing to be comfortable being uncomfortable. Meaning deals that used to be easy now need to be negotiated and even walked away from. Denver screwed itself by giving Porter the Max and then extending Murray on the Max instead of making them earn it or sweat it out.

Spurs need that discipline now with Sochan. The reality of future money to fox, Castle, Harper means Sochan can't get $20 a year. Hell he might not deserve $15 a year. Spurs have to be disciplined and willing to lose him after his rookie deal, hopefully by sign and trade to get something for him, but they have to play hardball.

[Gandalf]

Will Durant’s game age like Ray Allen’s? Someone else?

Allen’s stats seemed to drop quite a bit around 37. I don’t want Durant unless we get him really, really cheap. Even then, the $50 million might hurt next year.

[CorrectCrusader]

Anyone know the earliest this trade could be made?

[dubross]

I don’t see Durant’s stats dropping off that much. Even if he scores in the low 20s, his type of spacing and efficiency is what we need. We just need him to be healthy and he still a bucket getter.

[DAF86]

Fox / CP3
Harper / Castle
Sochan / Champagnie
Durant / Barnes
Wemby / Brook Lopez

That team should be good enough to make the playoffs, tbh.

[Uriel]

I predict that if this Durant trade actually goes through, the price will be higher than just Vassell / Johnson / 14th pick, and people will be complaining about how high a price the team paid, even if the price is still actually low by objective standards.

[DAF86]

I predict that if this Durant trade actually goes through, the price will be higher than just Vassell / Johnson / 14th pick, and people will be complaining about how high a price the team paid, even if the price is still actually low by objective standards.

A couple of 2nd rounders. If it is more expensive than that, then let some other team overpay.

[100%duncan]

Vassell
KJ/Barnes
14th pick
1 lottery protected FRP
A million seconds


A little more than what others here would offer. But I believe this is what gets it done.

[KobesAchilles]

I predict that if this Durant trade actually goes through, the price will be higher than just Vassell / Johnson / 14th pick, and people will be complaining about how high a price the team paid, even if the price is still actually low by objective standards.
I mean who is actually bidding for him? At this point you’re really just getting a name. You aren’t getting a difference maker. If he were a difference maker then the Nets would’ve been better and Phx would’ve made the playoffs. When you look at it objectively, Durant isn’t changing your team at all. If you’re a top team then you’re going to stay a top team. If you’re a middle team then you’re going to stay a middle team and if you’re a lower end team well that’s where you’re going to stay. Except for 3 teams.

The 3 teams I believe that would improve are Detroit, Orlando, and Hou. Durant wants no part of Detroit or Orlando and that just leaves Houston. Houston probably would just offer one of Phoenix picks back for KD and that’s the top of their offer. While I want no part of Durant, if you trade Vassell and Barnes and the 14th with 3 SRPs for him then you make that trade 100% of the time.

Then draft Hugo Gonzalez with our SRP this year and stash him.

[kht]

Vassell
KJ/Barnes
14th pick
1 lottery protected FRP
A million seconds


A little more than what others here would offer. But I believe this is what gets it done.

If that's the deal, Suns probably offer to pick you up at the airport and stops for dinner on the way to the stadium to sign.

Suns should do that in a heart beat. For the Spurs and an often injured and unpredictable KD, that's overpay. Then... you have to KD 50M for one year and potentially more.

[FkLA]

KD will be All-NBA caliber into his 40s. The achilles injury didn't faze him. Neither will age. Greatest scorer of all-time. Most skilled offensive player of all-time. It's Kevin f'ing Durant bro. If it doesn't costs you the #2, or Castle, or Fox you jump on it.

[100%duncan]

If that's the deal, Suns probably offer to pick you up at the airport and stops for dinner on the way to the stadium to sign.

Suns should do that in a heart beat. For the Spurs and an often injured and unpredictable KD, that's overpay. Then... you have to KD 50M for one year and potentially more.

We'll know when the offseason begins what's an overpay or not. Fans of their team have a habit of overavaluing their assets and undervaluing the player they are trading for. :lol

Again, a lot of people disagree but that's my max.

[FkLA]

Will Durant’s game age like Ray Allen’s? Someone else?

Allen’s stats seemed to drop quite a bit around 37. I don’t want Durant unless we get him really, really cheap. Even then, the $50 million might hurt next year.

Was Ray Allen a 7 footer with an elite handle and shot?

[DPG21920]

Anyone know the earliest this trade could be made?

Teams not in the playoffs (so everyone except OKC and IND) can make trades now.

[talkspurs]

Winning now/next 2 years makes sense.

A lot of people seem to think the Spurs still wouldn't contend with Durant, that they'd be too young, too inexperienced.

I disagree

OKC is proving that winning young is possible.

What was Daignault's playoff record before this season? One series win against a joke Pelicans team, and now he's on the verge of being a title winning coach.

That one series win of experience counts for all the players too, except SGA had 6 playoff games as a Clippers rookie and 7 in his first okc year.

They added 2 key rotation pieces in Hartenstein and Caruso, and it's been plug and play, no need to wait years for chemistry to kick in.

And a Spurs team with Durant and Fox won't be lacking in veteran knowledge. And they still would have a shot at adding a good veteran back up center like Brook Lopez.

Would it be better if they could snap their fingers and get PJ Washington to sign an under market 4 year extension with SA after a trade? Probably, yes. But that's probably not happening. Getting core pieces for the future at a bargain price is a great goal, but real life steps in to make it hard so take what you can while you can.

Hell, I'd love John Collins. But Collins isn't going to opt out to lose $10 million a year to sign with SA. Even if you trade for him, is he going to give a discount off the 25+ a year he's used to?

The key to this next stretch of years and the NBA adjusting to the new cap realities is what Nate Duncan called teams needing to be comfortable being uncomfortable. Meaning deals that used to be easy now need to be negotiated and even walked away from. Denver screwed itself by giving Porter the Max and then extending Murray on the Max instead of making them earn it or sweat it out.

Spurs need that discipline now with Sochan. The reality of future money to fox, Castle, Harper means Sochan can't get $20 a year. Hell he might not deserve $15 a year. Spurs have to be disciplined and willing to lose him after his rookie deal, hopefully by sign and trade to get something for him, but they have to play hardball.

OKC added players without having to trade away lots of pieces this is why if they are not to greedy can have a long run. If we trade away everything for older players then they will retire and we wont have anything and could lose some of our younger players that were not already traded away.

[100%duncan]

Teams not in the playoffs (so everyone except OKC and IND) can make trades now.

TIL. I thought it needed to be the offseason. Guess that only applies with FAs.

[objective]

Even if he does some down as he ages, he's still going to be one of the best spot up shooters and gravity wells in the NBA because he's so huge he gets his shots off over almost anyone

The past 5 years shooting, ages 32-36, have been the best 5 year 3 point shooting span of his entire career. Want more spacing for Wemby or open lanes for Castle and Fox drives? Get Durant next to them to see the attention he draws.

And people have been knocking his defense .... He still blocked 50% more shots per 100 possessions last year than Sochan thanks to his length. The length isn't going anywhere.

[scottspurs]

I could see a scenario where the Suns will want the 2027 hawks pick instead of pick 14 this year. With the luxury tax situation they are in maybe Vassell + Johnson/Barnes + pick 38 + hawks 27 pick. Then the spurs can use pick 14 in this deep class or use it to trade for another veteran.

[scott]

Anyone know the earliest this trade could be made?

Could have been made the moment the season ended (so long as the other team was not in the playoffs). Nothing stopping the teams from making this trade at any moment… but mostly likely we won’t see any activity until closer to the draft.

[Gandalf]

Was Ray Allen a 7 footer with an elite handle and shot?

Comps are hard for a seven-footer who can shoot like that—that’s why I asked.

How about Dirk? Seven-footer, great shooter, handling not as good. Dirk started to fall off around 37 too; averaged 18 points, down to 14, to 12, to 7.

I get why people think a great shooter’s game will age well, and maybe it will—but I also remember people saying the same thing about Dirk before his game dropped off. Time usually wins.

[DPG21920]

TIL. I thought it needed to be the offseason. Guess that only applies with FAs.

Ya - for purposes of the trade deadline rule, it applies to that season. So once a team is done/eliminated they are now in the “next” season technically.

[objective]

Comps are hard for a seven-footer who can shoot like that—that’s why I asked.

How about Dirk? Seven-footer, great shooter, handling not as good. Dirk started to fall off around 37 too; averaged 18 points, down to 14, to 12, to 7.

I get why people think a great shooter’s game will age well, and maybe it will—but I also remember people saying the same thing about Dirk before his game dropped off. Time usually wins.

Dirk is fair but it's important to remember that Dirk compared to Durant he wasn't a 3 point specialist until very late in his career. He was a post up into a one legged shot guy.

From the ages of 25-35, Dirk Averaged under 6.0 3pta/100 possessions. Including the shockingly low 2.1 3pt a/100 in his age 31 season.

From 25-35, Durant ranged from 6.7-9.1 3pt a/100.

[objective]

Also with Dirk, don't conflate the teams being bad with Dirk's decline.

If Dirk at age 37 had Wemby, Fox, and Castle as his next best scorers instead of Parsons, Wes Matthews, and Deron Williams, people wouldn't remember him being so washed

[spurraider21]

:lol asking how his game will age. We’ve seen it. He’s gonna be 37 when the season starts

[Seventyniner]

The Suns should wait for when the Spurs are on the clock at #14. That gives them a few more weeks to gauge the market and make sure the player they want at 14 is on the board. No need for them to rush.

[FkLA]

Comps are hard for a seven-footer who can shoot like that—that’s why I asked.

How about Dirk? Seven-footer, great shooter, handling not as good. Dirk started to fall off around 37 too; averaged 18 points, down to 14, to 12, to 7.

I get why people think a great shooter’s game will age well, and maybe it will—but I also remember people saying the same thing about Dirk before his game dropped off. Time usually wins.

As great as Dirk was, he never moved like 36 year old KD moves. Much less prime KD. There is no comp for him. He is the most skilled offensive player of all-time. Smoothest handle, most fluid moving 7 footer of all-time.

Barring another catastrophic injury, he will continue to age better than just about anyone in NBA history, imho.

[sfernald]

Well, like a few others on here, I don’t believe that low price tag (Vassell, Barnes & #14) is realistic. There will be other teams bidding and I think that offer is easily beat. And if we gotta pay more I would rather put those assets plus whatever extra is needed to get Giannis. I think it’s a much better bet even if it costs much more. Wemby & Giannis would be a two headed monster unlike anything the league has seen before. I think there’s a good chance it would lead to a dynasty actually!

‘Hey might as well have some fun. Here’s what I think the BW version of the KD trade might actually look like (don’t shoot me, I wouldn’t do this trade but I’ll make an argument for it):

Spurs get: Kevin Durant, Cam Johnson #8
Spurs give up: Barnes, Vassell, KJ, #2

i won’t list it, but nets and phx will both be very happy with what they get.

Why would spurs do it? Because they are turning Barnes, vassell and KJ into fucking Kevin Dursnt and Cam Johnson for just the difference in what their lottery pick was going to be to what it became. So basically they are giving up nothing if they hadn’t won the lottery. It’s nothing that if the numbers had fallen differently that they would have ever even considered. So just turning some luck into a decent chance at a championship next year. And if they pick right at #8 they may get another all-star rookie to add to the fold, no not DH but perhaps a real difference maker like [you fav goes here]…

oh plus we still get #14 too in this deal…

[tbdog]

Anyone know the earliest this trade could be made?


Now. Both teams are not in the playoffs.

[szkorhetz]

Well, like a few others on here, I don’t believe that low price tags (Vassell, Barnes & #14) is realistic. There will be other teams bidding and I think that offer is easily beat. And if we gotta pay more I would rather put those assets plus whatever extra is needed to get Giannis. I think it’s a much better bet even if it costs much more. Wemby & Giannis would be a two headed monster unlike anything the league has seen before. I think there’s a good chance it would lead to a dynasty actually!
Giannis is a much better fit, no doubt about that, but asking price-wise, I think I don't want to give up as much, as Giannis's worth.
About KD, I am not so sure. I think this team is not winning with or without him next year, therefore I wouldn't do this trade if it's anything more than DV+KJ+14.

[tbdog]

Giannis is a much better fit, no doubt about that, but asking price-wise, I think I don't want to give up as much, as Giannis's worth.
About KD, I am not so sure. I think this team is not winning with or without him next year, therefore I wouldn't do this trade if it's anything more than DV+KJ+14.


Giannis isn't the better fit. He is, by far, the better player. But the Spurs would need to do some serious juggling to get shooting around that team. Like Castle and Sochan just couldn't be playing with him. Durant just slides into any team in the league.

[Bruno]

I really have little interest in Durant.

The age issue is obvious and I'm just not interest in Spurs adding another 20+ppg player like Durant or Markkanen. If you have Wembanyama, Fox and Durant, there won't have enough offensive touches left for players like Castle and Harper. Spurs have already their main scorers and playmakers. They now need defensive players.

[onechance87]

I really have little interest in Durant.

The age issue is obvious and I'm just not interest in Spurs adding another 20+ppg player like Durant or Markkanen. If you have Wembanyama, Fox and Durant, there won't have enough offensive touches left for players like Castle and Harper. Spurs have already their main scorers and playmakers. They now need defensive players.

rather have durant scoring then vassell trash ass scoring.Durant fits well next to wemby castle,fox and probably harper.

[Ice009]

I really have little interest in Durant.

The age issue is obvious and I'm just not interest in Spurs adding another 20+ppg player like Durant or Markkanen. If you have Wembanyama, Fox and Durant, there won't have enough offensive touches left for players like Castle and Harper. Spurs have already their main scorers and playmakers. They now need defensive players.

I tend to agree with you, but I also think he can teach Victor some stuff. That is the main reason I'd like him. I also think that it could make other players on the team more dangerous and vice versa with the attention each player will draw. You are right about the touches, though. Not sure how that would work with Castle and Harper.

[tbdog]

I really have little interest in Durant.

The age issue is obvious and I'm just not interest in Spurs adding another 20+ppg player like Durant or Markkanen. If you have Wembanyama, Fox and Durant, there won't have enough offensive touches left for players like Castle and Harper. Spurs have already their main scorers and playmakers. They now need defensive players.

Well, the good news is that Durant is a plus defender and plus rebounder. And get this, one of the best spacers in the league.

[LeBowen]

I don't want KD, but we can't deny he'd make an instant impact.
Despite his numbers, the decline was obvious this season.

Still, I'd look at it in the same way as current Lebron. They can both still be elite at what they do best, it's just that they can't do it for 40 minutes anymore.
And noone wants them to do secondary things at this stage of their careers.

We don't want KD running the offense like he did in Phoenix because they didn't have any legit point guards.
We don't want KD being the primary rim protector like he was in Phoenix at times because their centers were garbage.

[Dejounte]

People want to throw Harper or (less so) Castle into the fire as if it’s the most effective way for them to learn. Being able to see how greatness works, witnessing the daily grind and important habits only legends like KD have will be super valuable for our young core. You’re not only investing in them but investing in Wemby too. People think Wemby will just capture greatness by himself, but everyone is a product of who they admire. Kawhi had the luxury to learn from Duncan, Manu, and TP in real-time. Fuck your timelines, vets and especially legends are important to have on the team.

[exstatic]

Could have been made the moment the season ended (so long as the other team was not in the playoffs). Nothing stopping the teams from making this trade at any moment… but mostly likely we won’t see any activity until closer to the draft.
I think probably draft night will be when it goes down. If you’re buying or trading for a pick, you don’t want other teams to know the pick is yours.

[vy65]

The Spurs score 114 points (113.9) per game last year. You’d expect that to rise somewhat, but let’s keep it the same. Let’s also assume Wemby takes a huge jump in PPG to 30 and Fox and KD stay around 25 ppg they scored last season. That’s 80 ppg right there. I think a high end estimate for Castle is 18ppg and Harper 12 ppg. That’s another 30 taking you to 110. That leaves a handful of points for whomever is left (Champagnie/Sochan/Mamu/etc).

Now, more plausibly if it’s like: Vic (26ppg); Fox (24ppg); KD (20ppg); Castle (16ppg); Harper (12ppg), that’s a total of 98 ppg. If you assume a 4-6 point increase in ppg team-wide, you still have about 20-22ppg to spread amongst Sochan/JC/Mamu/Vet1/Vet2 etc. That still feels somewhat tight to me, but imminently plausible. KD fading into 3rd and 4th offensive options in years 2 and 3 also feels more natural as the scoring load would go more to Harper and Wemby (probably) and Castle (somewhat less so)

Also, that doesn’t factor in injuries. I don’t know how that impacts the averages, but I’d imagine that would free up another 10-20ppg on average over the course of the season. So the ability to spread the scoring burden around shouldn’t be too much of a problem.

[vy65]

Dp

[John B]

Trading away #14 for a HOF is a no brainer. The draft is not the only source for future talents. The Spurs will be a preferred destination for ring chasers in the next 15 years, and some will be coming in cheap to have the opportunity to ring.

[Ice009]

People want to throw Harper or (less so) Castle into the fire as if it’s the most effective way for them to learn. Being able to see how greatness works, witnessing the daily grind and important habits only legends like KD have will be super valuable for our young core. You’re not only investing in them but investing in Wemby too. People think Wemby will just capture greatness by himself, but everyone is a product of who they admire. Kawhi had the luxury to learn from Duncan, Manu, and TP in real-time. Fuck your timelines, vets and especially legends are important to have on the team.

Good post. A lot of people don't think about this. I remember Lebron, Wade, Carmelo (can't remember which guys it was exactly), they said they saw how Kobe worked when they went to the Olympics and that made them change/improve their own workouts after seeing that (I think it was D-wade that said story).
So that is sort of the angle I'm coming at where Victor can learn from him, and maybe some of the other players can too.

[RC_Drunkford]

Can KD be our shooting coach?

Spurs should have the best offense in the league with KD. If Mitch is good enough.

[thOOdee]

I think rockets have the better cards to get this deal done, because I dont see and hope spurs dont give more than hb and dv +14, but i think it ultimately comes down to where kd prefers to play.

if im kd, and factoring what rockets will have to give up, i wouldnt see rockets winning a chip as constructed w him. Spurs would have the best path and better redemption story.

[LeBowen]

Can KD be our shooting coach?

Spurs should have the best offense in the league with KD. If Mitch is good enough.

Can't be bothered to dig up the post I made when the season ended, but Spurs had ORTG that would've been good enough for 6th in the league during March and April.
That was without Fox and Wemby. I think Mitch has proven he can set up an offense, we just need our perimeter defense to be at least average, Wemby will take care of the rest.

[RC_Drunkford]

Apparently Houston has no interest in giving Phoenix their picks back. They also have no interest in trading players like Tari Eason to the Suns. Any deal would be centered around Van Vleet or Jalen Green. But then Van Vleet has to opt in and if he does, the Rockets can‘t absorb 11 million in salary to lower Phoenix tax bill like the Spurs can. And the Rockets actually want to keep Van Vleet, besides KD not wanting to go there anyway.

[BSfromTX]

Getting Durant for DV, HB and 14 is a good swap. We won't need DV scoring and he most likely wont get enough opportunity anyway. KD knows how to play and has championship experience. Prior to the '99 championship, experience was what was needed. Its what is needed now along with defense. If we land KD and Sochan can improve shooting, I would think that would go a long way in improving this team

[Mr. Body]

I think rockets have the better cards to get this deal done, because I dont see and hope spurs dont give more than hb and dv +14, but i think it ultimately comes down to where kd prefers to play.

if im kd, and factoring what rockets will have to give up, i wouldnt see rockets winning a chip as constructed w him. Spurs would have the best path and better redemption story.

Important for Durant is the question whether the Rockets would extend him. I'm not sure they would, or would be able to.

[Ice009]

I think probably draft night will be when it goes down. If you’re buying or trading for a pick, you don’t want other teams to know the pick is yours.

Why do you need to keep it a secret? Wouldn't the other team know what pick they're buying/trading for? Can you give me an example of what you mean with this?

[scottspurs]

Apparently Houston has no interest in giving Phoenix their picks back. They also have no interest in trading players like Tari Eason to the Suns. Any deal would be centered around Van Vleet or Jalen Green. But then Van Vleet has to opt in and if he does, the Rockets can‘t absorb 11 million in salary to lower Phoenix tax bill like the Spurs can. And the Rockets actually want to keep Van Vleet, besides KD not wanting to go there anyway.

The Fred Van Vleet option is a team option not a player option

[exstatic]

Why do you need to keep it a secret? Wouldn't the other team know what pick they're buying/trading for? Can you give me an example of what you mean with this?

Say you’re trading for pick #10. Another team, team A, unrelated to the trade, owns 8 and 11. They think that the original team owning the pick is going to draft at 10, and they might make assessments as to who the original team that owned the pick might select , and who might slip to 11 for them to pick. The player they might want to slip to 11 might be the player you want at 10, and if they know you’ve traded for the pick, they’ll grab that player at 8, leaving you out in the cold.

[Dverde]

Coach Bud can give Spurs insight on coaching KD nowadays. Vassell being included doesn’t bother me. I would hate to move Harrison Barnes, the iron man of the nba, for an older and brittle KD.

[Ice009]

Say you’re trading for pick #10. Another team, team A, unrelated to the trade, owns 8 and 11. They think that the original team owning the pick is going to draft at 10, and they might make assessments as to who the original team that owned the pick might select , and who might slip to 11 for them to pick. The player they might want to slip to 11 might be the player you want at 10, and if they know you’ve traded for the pick, they’ll grab that player at 8, leaving you out in the cold.

OK, got it. Darn, well then, in that case, you're right. Best to do the trade during draft night as it can screw up plans for certain teams if it's done to early. Got it.

[spurraider21]

ideally we'd send keldon instead of HB but if im phoenix id draw the line there if we are only talking about a single end-of-lottery first rounder. getting an expiring deal vs a 2 year deal is probably the route they'd want.

[Kevin]

Yeah no way is HB a deal breaker if it gets you KD.

Suns have zero second round picks from 2027-2031. Fully expect the Spurs to include a bundle of second round picks similar to what they did in the Fox trade.

[scott]

I really have little interest in Durant.

The age issue is obvious and I'm just not interest in Spurs adding another 20+ppg player like Durant or Markkanen. If you have Wembanyama, Fox and Durant, there won't have enough offensive touches left for players like Castle and Harper. Spurs have already their main scorers and playmakers. They now need defensive players.

Yes this has been my position as well. Durant is just more of what we don’t necessarily need (scorers and playmakers) and not what we do need (defense and rebounding).

But I don’t hate it if he’s only coming here for one year. If you can send out Vassell and Keldon for him, you clear our a lot of long term salary, you get one year of mentorship and his touches will come at the expense of Castle’s and Harper in a year when they are still developing.

I’m in for one year of KD.

[Davidicus]

I’m pro trade if that’s what it takes to get him. As others have pointed out, he should age well with his shooting %s and length alone.

The big elephant is what would we extend him at. I don’t like the idea of maxing him for 2 more years even with Wemby still on rookie scale, that’s a high opportunity cost.

Hopefully there is some backchanneling with his camp on that topic, if the trade gets hot and heavy.

[Mr. Body]

I really have little interest in Durant.

The age issue is obvious and I'm just not interest in Spurs adding another 20+ppg player like Durant or Markkanen. If you have Wembanyama, Fox and Durant, there won't have enough offensive touches left for players like Castle and Harper. Spurs have already their main scorers and playmakers. They now need defensive players.

Yeah, pretty much. If they didn't have Harper coming on, it makes much more sense. You can have Fox/Durant taking their shots, Castle supporting, and Wembanyama too. Trying to bring along Harper makes this really awkward, even more than if just Fox-Castle-Harper. Getting Durant makes sense if they trade down or God forbid get Flagg.

[Kevin]

Given the minimal price that's being suggested of Dev/Barnes and the 14 the Spurs cant say no. Its an offer they cant refuse.

The only deal breaker for me might be the extension. The Spurs can tack two years on to his current deal at max price no problem. If KD want's a third year added then they should pass. Seems like KD wants to come here so I bet he'll be fine with two more years added to his deal at the max.

[Ice009]

Yeah, pretty much. If they didn't have Harper coming on, it makes much more sense. You can have Fox/Durant taking their shots, Castle supporting, and Wembanyama too. Trying to bring along Harper makes this really awkward, even more than if just Fox-Castle-Harper. Getting Durant makes sense if they trade down or God forbid get Flagg.

Each side has valid points. It's going to be pretty crowed if the Spurs were to get him. There's both postives (helping/teaching Victor, showing the other young guys what it takes to be a great player/scorer etc.) and some negatives to it (Taking minutes from players that could stand to have the ball more. Possibly holding back the development of some of the younger players.

By the way, the Flagg comment, you wouldn't want him if the Spurs could get him?

[Kevin]

Each side has valid points. It's going to be pretty crowed if the Spurs were to get him. There's both postives (helping/teaching Victor, showing the other young guys what it takes to be a great player/scorer etc.) and some negatives to it (Taking minutes from players that could stand to have the ball more. Possibly holding back the development of some of the younger players.

With KD the Spurs become legit championship contenders in 2027. Without him they wont reach that level until about 2028 or 2029.

Again if KD is fine with a two year deal they have to do it. KD opens the championship window 1-3 years sooner. Its a no brainer.

[Mr. Body]

Each side has valid points. It's going to be pretty crowed if the Spurs were to get him. There's both postives (helping/teaching Victor, showing the other young guys what it takes to be a great player/scorer etc.) and some negatives to it (Taking minutes from players that could stand to have the ball more. Possibly holding back the development of some of the younger players.

By the way, the Flagg comment, you wouldn't want him if the Spurs could get him?

If they can get Durant for not much, they have to do it. I have concerns that he's sort of a ball stopper and doesn't do well in the flowing offense the Spurs run, and is a bit of a sour personality, but if they can get it to work, and I think they will...

It's a bit gilding the lily but you try.

As for Flagg, I was being ironic. But yeah, Harper I think is a casualty to some degree if Durant comes on board. There's a lot of mouths to feed with their shot diet. This isn't where you stick KD in the corner, he's going to need a lot of shots. (And he should.) With Flagg, he acts on the court differently and has different abilities and needs.

[eric365]

Wemby after 1 year with CP3 then 1 or 2 years with Durant will be such a better player than if he played thoses 3 years without them

At such a low price (Vassell, 14# and barnes), I’m fine with this rental
And we’ll still have the MLE to add a backup center
And I’m sure a Wemby / KD / Fox team will lure some wings for the minimum

[dn0774]

Regarding a KD extension, is he at the age where you can't give more than 2 years at a time yet? That could play into avoiding giving a 3rd year.

KD played 36.5 mpg last year, that clearly needs to drop quite a bit (should've happened already). He should probably be around 30 mpg or hopefully even a little less.

[cd98]

Suns are a second apron team and need to shed salary and get young talent. Problem is Durant has one year left on his contract, he’s 37, injured, and will want to pick where he plays.

Suns don’t have a lot of leverage and so what they can get depends on the market they can generate for Durant. Vassel and Barnes would be required in the trade. Picks depend on what others are offering. If Houston does a deal with Bucks or someone else with the 10th pick, Suns are screwed bc the Spurs can offer a lottery protected first and some seconds and most teams can’t beat that.

[BacktoBasics]

I don’t view Durant as a mentor. He doesn’t seem to get along with people all that well. Granted I don’t believe he’s as toxic as some make him out to be but he doesn’t exactly have a history of mentoring anyone.

[scottspurs]

All of you talking extension is changing my mind. The main reason I want KD is to become more flexible with the salary cap next offseason. An extension destroys that even at a discount. Screw that. I’ll just draft at 14 and build internally. If you extend KD and he gets injured or has a major decline in play then you are stuck financially. Let the Rockets or Timberwolves have him if he wants an extension. You can just keep Vassell or use him in another trade.

[Dejounte]

https://x.com/n_magaro/status/1684999016851910656?s=46

https://x.com/thehoopherald/status/1928772124983881761?s=46

https://x.com/bluedevils/status/1928810560679723312?s=46

Just the first two minutes i took to look for durant “not having a history of mentoring anyone”

[scottspurs]

All of you talking extension is changing my mind. The main reason I want KD is to become more flexible with the salary cap next offseason. An extension destroys that even at a discount. Screw that. I’ll just draft at 14 and build internally. If you extend KD and he gets injured or has a major decline in play then you are stuck financially. Let the Rockets or Timberwolves have him if he wants an extension. You can just keep Vassell or use him in another trade.

[024]

Yes this has been my position as well. Durant is just more of what we don’t necessarily need (scorers and playmakers) and not what we do need (defense and rebounding).

But I don’t hate it if he’s only coming here for one year. If you can send out Vassell and Keldon for him, you clear our a lot of long term salary, you get one year of mentorship and his touches will come at the expense of Castle’s and Harper in a year when they are still developing.

I’m in for one year of KD.
For a lottery pick, clearing salary and a one year rental of KD when the Spurs probably aren't at championship contender level is not ideal. Even if the lotteey pick is the last one, it's still a deep draft where the Spurs should be able to get a serviceable player for cheap. Spurs can always later offload Vassell who I think still has a bit of positive value and KJ who might be neutral to slightly negative at this point.

Wouldn't mind this trade as much (assuming Vassell + Barnes + 14th pick) if it didn't include another future first rounder and KD agrees to a reasonable short term extension. Doubt the Suns will do it though considering the assets they expended to get him. KD is worth more to a team on the cusp of legitimately contending like the Rockets.

KD on the Spurs will be a decent fit and could even bring some net positive defense into the lineup. His spacing could also allow Sochan to and Castle to start together. And Durant taking up shots would also force Castle refocus on D and Harper to develop there.

[Dejounte]

More

https://x.com/thehoopherald/status/1837104947701092829?s=46&t=SruoshPxBN1Th5Jk_Axizg

https://x.com/hatedzs/status/1900010983231262776?s=46&t=SruoshPxBN1Th5Jk_Axizg

https://x.com/poolemuse/status/1683631460232704000?s=46&t=SruoshPxBN1Th5Jk_Axizg

https://x.com/biasedhouston/status/1809018541233906055?s=46&t=SruoshPxBN1Th5Jk_Axizg

[TD 21]

The report said a package including Vassell, Barnes and 14 and somehow that got interpreted or translated to the extent of it and debates about whether that'd be an overpay.

I would think it'd take another "good" 1st and maybe a bundle of 2nds to round out the package.


His spacing could also allow Sochan to and Castle to start together. And Durant taking up shots would also force Castle refocus on D and Harper to develop there.

No, it wouldn't. They'd probably try it, but barring a quantum leap from one (Castle would be the better bet), it'd remain untenable and they'd probably have to eventually go back to Champagnie over Sochan.

The trickle down effect would likely see Mamukelashvili re-signed and some fringe rotation C signed (Plumlee?) and those two utilized situationally/match-ups dependent.

[DAF86]

I really have little interest in Durant.

The age issue is obvious and I'm just not interest in Spurs adding another 20+ppg player like Durant or Markkanen. If you have Wembanyama, Fox and Durant, there won't have enough offensive touches left for players like Castle and Harper. Spurs have already their main scorers and playmakers. They now need defensive players.

Durant has always been an underrated defender and rim protector. In a dream scenario where he resigns for role playing money and accepts a 3 and (team) D role, he could be an awesome get.

[scott]

For a lottery pick, clearing salary and a one year rental of KD when the Spurs probably aren't at championship contender level is not ideal. Even if the lotteey pick is the last one, it's still a deep draft where the Spurs should be able to get a serviceable player for cheap. Spurs can always later offload Vassell who I think still has a bit of positive value and KJ who might be neutral to slightly negative at this point.

Wouldn't mind this trade as much (assuming Vassell + Barnes + 14th pick) if it didn't include another future first rounder and KD agrees to a reasonable short term extension. Doubt the Suns will do it though considering the assets they expended to get him. KD is worth more to a team on the cusp of legitimately contending like the Rockets.

KD on the Spurs will be a decent fit and could even bring some net positive defense into the lineup. His spacing could also allow Sochan to and Castle to start together. And Durant taking up shots would also force Castle refocus on D and Harper to develop there.

The median outcome of a #14 pick is that of a rotation player. (Source: https://tonyelhabr.github.io/nba-decision_analysis/what-research-says-about-nba-draft-pick-value.html) Yes, there is upside for an all star (Bam was the #14 pick in 2017, followed by MPJ in 2018)... but there is also an equal amount of chance the #14 is a bust (the two guys I just mentioned were preceded by Denzel Valentine in 2016 and followed by Romeo Langford in 2019).

We're overvaluing the #14 a bit. It's also no longer "a lottery pick" - it's the 14th pick. The lottery is over, it is set in stone. It's lottery value disappears once the ping pong balls are drawn.

[cd98]

Spurs aren't giving up two "good" first round picks for Durant. Maybe a bunch of seconds. I don't think they even have to give up the 14th pick if Houston opts to offer its 10th pick to someone else. Spurs can just offer one of their own future picks and make it top 10 or top 14 protected and that may be the best that Suns can do as far as picks. But two? Suns have to find someone willing to give up two first rounders and most of the contenders, if not all but OKC and Houston, don't have two picks to give and Houston ain't giving two first rounders and OKC already said no to a Durant trade during the season. At worst, the Spurs would likely give up a protected first round pick and it would just be about how much protection.

Suns can't just say oh well, we'll just keep Durant and not trade him b/c (1) Durant isn't going to want to play another year with the Suns and will force a trade; and (2) Suns can't afford to be in the second apron AND not be a playoff team. They need to shed salary urgently and get younger and that means they must trade Durant and find out a way to trade Beal or pray he gets a career ending injury.

[Mr. Body]

The median outcome of a #14 pick is that of a rotation player. (Source: https://tonyelhabr.github.io/nba-decision_analysis/what-research-says-about-nba-draft-pick-value.html) Yes, there is upside for an all star (Bam was the #14 pick in 2017, followed by MPJ in 2018)... but there is also an equal amount of chance the #14 is a bust (the two guys I just mentioned were preceded by Denzel Valentine in 2016 and followed by Romeo Langford in 2019).

We're overvaluing the #14 a bit. It's also no longer "a lottery pick" - it's the 14th pick. The lottery is over, it is set in stone. It's lottery value disappears once the ping pong balls are drawn.

Agree, and for me especially this year. I'm not in love with anyone likely there at 14 this year. I think the last of the tier 3 type players are gone by around pick 10 or 11. I want to either trade up a little or consider what else to do with it.

[Mr. Body]

The median outcome of a #14 pick is that of a rotation player. (Source: https://tonyelhabr.github.io/nba-decision_analysis/what-research-says-about-nba-draft-pick-value.html) Yes, there is upside for an all star (Bam was the #14 pick in 2017, followed by MPJ in 2018)... but there is also an equal amount of chance the #14 is a bust (the two guys I just mentioned were preceded by Denzel Valentine in 2016 and followed by Romeo Langford in 2019).

We're overvaluing the #14 a bit. It's also no longer "a lottery pick" - it's the 14th pick. The lottery is over, it is set in stone. It's lottery value disappears once the ping pong balls are drawn.

Agree, and for me especially this year. I'm not in love with anyone likely there at 14 this year. I think the last of the tier 3 type players are gone by around pick 10 or 11. I want to either trade up a little or consider what else to do with it.

[RC_Drunkford]

https://x.com/n_magaro/status/1684999016851910656?s=46

https://x.com/thehoopherald/status/1928772124983881761?s=46

https://x.com/bluedevils/status/1928810560679723312?s=46

Just the first two minutes i took to look for durant “not having a history of mentoring anyone”

Devin has been working his ass off this offseason. I really want to see how he'll look in an offball role next to Fox. I just can't see how we keep him on the team while adding KD.

[scott]

Agree, and for me especially this year. I'm not in love with anyone likely there at 14 this year. I think the last of the tier 3 type players are gone by around pick 10 or 11. I want to either trade up a little or consider what else to do with it.

I actually like the options in the range of 14 quite a bit... but we have to be realistic about the most likely outcome of who we pick here. People act like #14 is going to yield some sure-fire career starter for us... when it probably won't.

[Payote75]

Yea I'm not hard up for Durant ...I'd be happier with Brown and keeping that window open. That said if Durant is who they want I don't include vassell I keep or trade him elsewhere even though I'm a huge fan of his but trade would be the same just take out vassell and put in keldon and figithe rest out. I'm not losing two young assets for one old asset even if he still is productive this team has to grow together like Steph green and clay we aren't ready for a finishing touch type player. There's work to be done

[024]

The median outcome of a #14 pick is that of a rotation player. (Source: https://tonyelhabr.github.io/nba-decision_analysis/what-research-says-about-nba-draft-pick-value.html) Yes, there is upside for an all star (Bam was the #14 pick in 2017, followed by MPJ in 2018)... but there is also an equal amount of chance the #14 is a bust (the two guys I just mentioned were preceded by Denzel Valentine in 2016 and followed by Romeo Langford in 2019).

We're overvaluing the #14 a bit. It's also no longer "a lottery pick" - it's the 14th pick. The lottery is over, it is set in stone. It's lottery value disappears once the ping pong balls are drawn.
I did say we should be able to get serviceable player at 14. I had no high expectations about it. A serviceable big or 3 and D wing who is young and locked into the rookie scale is still pretty valuable. The upside is gravy and downside risk is low. Durant is a win now piece and not worth the tradeoff (especially if more assets are required) as a one year rental.

[objective]

I like a lot of the players anticipated to be there at 14 but I'd still move it with 10 seconds for Durant

Other teams can make better deals like the Knicks and KAT for KD, or Minnesota, or Houston ... But if the price is 14 and seconds and salary, I can't deny it no matter how interested I am in Fleming, Bryant, Wolf, Coward, Essengue, ....

[cd98]

I like a lot of the players anticipated to be there at 14 but I'd still move it with 10 seconds for Durant

Other teams can make better deals like the Knicks and KAT for KD, or Minnesota, or Houston ... But if the price is 14 and seconds and salary, I can't deny it no matter how interested I am in Fleming, Bryant, Wolf, Coward, Essengue, ....

Well, only Houston. Minnesota traded most of their picks to the Jazz and Spurs. They have late first round picks in this draft, but Spurs can offer Suns a lottery protected future pick that at least has the chance of being better than Twolves picks. Plus Twolves would have to give up a bunch of players for a 37 year old Durant and they are already going to have money issues because they will have to supermax Anthony Edwards soon. Money issues is why they traded Kat.

And the Knicks have no first rounders to trade and is Durant at his age better than Kat? I don't think so. At least not going forward. So Knicks can't give young players or draft picks.

The only team that can compete with the Spurs is the Rockets. It's a matter of how much SA and Rockets are willing to bid for Durant. And that's assuming the Rockets don't want to make a play for Giannis or Brown or some other player.

[Ice009]

Devin has been working his ass off this offseason. I really want to see how he'll look in an offball role next to Fox. I just can't see how we keep him on the team while adding KD.

Where have you read/seen this? Just following him on social media or something, or have you heard from someone he's been working his ass off? I still like the guy, I just wish he had fit better. I don't know, maybe he still can in a new/different role than what he was accustomed to before the Spurs drafted Victor.

[Devi8or]

I like Devin as much as the next guy, but the fact of the matter is, 36 year old KD is better than prime Devin Vassell. If he has to be in the trade, so be it. I'd do the Dev+KJ/HB+14 but I honestly don't know how much more I'd go than adding a filler. It's a definite no from me if they ask for more than one first round pick

[DPG21920]

Where have you read/seen this? Just following him on social media or something, or have you heard from someone he's been working his ass off? I still like the guy, I just wish he had fit better. I don't know, maybe he still can in a new/different role than what he was accustomed to before the Spurs drafted Victor.

Dev has always been a really hard worker and hes improved a lot - this last season he was hurt in off season so he didnt get his usual summer to work on game etc…which to me explains partly his down season

But he had improved basically every off season since he was drafted IMO except this last one where he was hurt.

[DPG21920]

Where have you read/seen this? Just following him on social media or something, or have you heard from someone he's been working his ass off? I still like the guy, I just wish he had fit better. I don't know, maybe he still can in a new/different role than what he was accustomed to before the Spurs drafted Victor.

Dev has always been a really hard worker and hes improved a lot - this last season he was hurt in off season so he didnt get his usual summer to work on game etc…which to me explains partly his down season

But he had improved basically every off season since he was drafted IMO except this last one where he was hurt.

[spurraider21]

The median outcome of a #14 pick is that of a rotation player. (Source: https://tonyelhabr.github.io/nba-decision_analysis/what-research-says-about-nba-draft-pick-value.html) Yes, there is upside for an all star (Bam was the #14 pick in 2017, followed by MPJ in 2018)... but there is also an equal amount of chance the #14 is a bust (the two guys I just mentioned were preceded by Denzel Valentine in 2016 and followed by Romeo Langford in 2019).

We're overvaluing the #14 a bit. It's also no longer "a lottery pick" - it's the 14th pick. The lottery is over, it is set in stone. It's lottery value disappears once the ping pong balls are drawn.
agree with a lot of this. i still think people use the descriptor "lottery pick" as a shorthand to being in the front half of the draft, but yes, a big value of the "lotto" pick is the lotto itself, which we were fortunately the beneficiaries of again

and yeah, the median pick at 14 is a rotation guy. and the common names we've seen there like Bryant, Fleming, Sorber, etc... all scream role player and not necessarily starters either (even if they have have starter upside)

[LeBowen]

agree with a lot of this. i still think people use the descriptor "lottery pick" as a shorthand to being in the front half of the draft, but yes, a big value of the "lotto" pick is the lotto itself, which we were fortunately the beneficiaries of again

and yeah, the median pick at 14 is a rotation guy. and the common names we've seen there like Bryant, Fleming, Sorber, etc... all scream role player and not necessarily starters either (even if they have have starter upside)

The question is if 3 years (at the most) of KD are worth more than 7 (at least) years of a good 3-D starter?

[Splits]

Devin has been working his ass off this offseason. I really want to see how he'll look in an offball role next to Fox. I just can't see how we keep him on the team while adding KD.

lol that video of Vasseline and KD was 2 years ago.

lol Vasseline in an offball role while he dribble dribble dribbles and bricks.

dude is useless outside of fooling other teams he's worth something

[exstatic]

Yea I'm not hard up for Durant ...I'd be happier with Brown and keeping that window open. That said if Durant is who they want I don't include vassell I keep or trade him elsewhere even though I'm a huge fan of his but trade would be the same just take out vassell and put in keldon and figithe rest out. I'm not losing two young assets for one old asset even if he still is productive this team has to grow together like Steph green and clay we aren't ready for a finishing touch type player. There's work to be done

The thing is, if you don’t include Devin, you’re looking at a 3 for 1 or even a 4 for 1 trade when we only have 10 players under contract. That leaves us with 7 players, needing 14. You have two exceptions to use. Do you just sign 5 guys off waivers? Malaki and Blake never popped in their development, but they’re cheap, and they know the plays.

The reality is that there isn’t going to be enough shots for Wemby, Fox, Castle, Harper, and Devin. Sending Devin out would be a kindness.

[Payote75]

The thing is, if you don’t include Devin, you’re looking at a 3 for 1 or even a 4 for 1 trade when we only have 10 players under contract. That leaves us with 7 players, needing 14. You have two exceptions to use. Do you just sign 5 guys off waivers? Malaki and Blake never popped in their development, but they’re cheap, and they know the plays.

The reality is that there isn’t going to be enough shots for Wemby, Fox, Castle, Harper, and Devin. Sending Devin out would be a kindness.
Got it.....maybe I'm being greedy but I do love Devon but if he must go I'd rather get another asset for him maybe a big etc. but I don't want to pay for 37 yr old Durant. I know he is still very good but he could be only one year or two year good then fall off a cliff and you have a big hole again. I'd rather a team continue to grow or get someone that's fits the window.

[spurraider21]

The question is if 3 years (at the most) of KD are worth more than 7 (at least) years of a good 3-D starter?
7 years (at least) of a good starter is way above the median expectation for pick #14

just recently, our last several picks around this range have been Sochan, Primo, Vassell, Lonnie Walker, Luka Samanic

in the last 20 years, of guys taken #14 overall, guys who have been mutli-year starters with say, 200 career starts (2.5 seasons):

Ronnie Brewer, Marcus Morris, TJ Warren, Bam Adebayo, MPJ (fell due to injury concerns)

and to be fair, Aaron Nesmith is well on his way. thats 6/20, or less than a third of those picks that wind up as consistent staters. there were some flash in the pan players like Al Thornton, Earl Clark, and Moses Moody is a nice player.

but its the boat vs mystery box, and you arent hitting many home runs at 14 other than Bam and MPJ

[Ice009]

lol that video of Vasseline and KD was 2 years ago.

lol Vasseline in an offball role while he dribble dribble dribbles and bricks.

dude is useless outside of fooling other teams he's worth something

This is why I asked. I wasn't sure if he was basing it off of that video of Devin from 2023 mistaking it for being this offseason.

[cutewizard]

Duran Duran

[rjv]

i have no problem with getting a solid rotation player out of the 14th pick. solid rotation players are a vital ingredient to any contending team.

[baseline bum]

Yea I'm not hard up for Durant ...I'd be happier with Brown and keeping that window open. That said if Durant is who they want I don't include vassell I keep or trade him elsewhere even though I'm a huge fan of his but trade would be the same just take out vassell and put in keldon and figithe rest out. I'm not losing two young assets for one old asset even if he still is productive this team has to grow together like Steph green and clay we aren't ready for a finishing touch type player. There's work to be done

Trading for Jaylen Brown's ridiculous contract prematurely shuts the window. Brown's not half the player 37 YO Durant is but makes the same money.

[dubross]

Trading for Jaylen Brown's ridiculous contract prematurely shuts the window. Brown's not half the player 37 YO Durant is but makes the same money.

Yeah I would rather of Durant, that Brown contract will be albatross. At least with Durant, we can extend and dictate a little bit our cap situation better since his contact will be up.

[SpursFan86]

1931070217616011299

More KD to SA rumors from Gambo. Also another random account with 60k followers tweeted this:

1931105057031815318

Anyone know of any sites that list odds for KD’s next team? Curious what they look like at this point.

[Mr. Body]

I fully believe KD will be in a Spurs uniform next season, yeah. Again, that fit with Harper coming in makes little sense. Kind of weird bringing in a top level draft pick and almost ensuring he can't get time to develop, and possibly for years.

[exstatic]

I fully believe KD will be in a Spurs uniform next season, yeah. Again, that fit with Harper coming in makes little sense. Kind of weird bringing in a top level draft pick and almost ensuring he can't get time to develop, and possibly for years.

You realize that Devin probably goes out, along with HB, and that CP3 isn’t coming back, right? That’s 86 minutes per game for KD, Harper, and whoever else. It makes perfect sense.

[Mr. Body]

You realize that Devin probably goes out, along with HB, and that CP3 isn’t coming back, right? That’s 86 minutes per game for KD, Harper, and whoever else. It makes perfect sense.

No, it doesn't.

[exstatic]

No, it doesn't.

There are plenty of minutes, 86 to be exact, from guys going out or rolling off. Harper is going to play. What makes no sense is to not draft him because he will be eased in, instead of being dropped into the fire like our picks from the last 5 years, and because we want to raise our ceiling for 3 years with an old guy.

[Mal]

All depends on extension. Spurs need to build 3 year roster before draft. Durant can fit 1 year, but then he would have to be closer to 30 mil cap hit to make it all work.

[dn0774]

How does the presence of KD negatively affect Harper? I’m curious.

[Mnky]

I fully believe KD will be in a Spurs uniform next season, yeah. Again, that fit with Harper coming in makes little sense. Kind of weird bringing in a top level draft pick and almost ensuring he can't get time to develop, and possibly for years.

You realize out of the guards you'd be shipping out, there will be 40-60 minutes missing in the lineup that will need to be filled right? Trading likely 2 or 3 players for KD, means you're making more time for for him to develop. He would not be prioritized over Keldon and Vassell on the team as it is now. Spurs proved that last year with Castle.

[Mnky]

How does the presence of KD negatively affect Harper? I’m curious.

It doesn't. At all. People just make things up in their head without thinking through. KD would take 2 or 3 guys out of our rotation that him and harper would fill.

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

I'm a durantstan atm but hopefully they can keep vassell and Barnes too bc they are the only spurs who can shoot straight. Not a deal killer but still

[Mnky]

i have no problem with getting a solid rotation player out of the 14th pick. solid rotation players are a vital ingredient to any contending team.

That would be fine and dandy if the Spurs had a complete Starting lineup. They don't. You always prioritize the starting lineup before the bench. They have to be contending first, before you start filling the rotation players otherwise there's no point to be trying to draft for that.

Lots of people want to draft for the bench when we don't have a starting 5 yet. It doesn't work that way. You focus on the starting 5 first. If the 14 can improve the starting five, you use it to do so.

[exstatic]

How does the presence of KD negatively affect Harper? I’m curious.

It’s a fever dream in Mrs. Body’s addled brain.

[exstatic]

I'm a durantstan atm but hopefully they can keep vassell and Barnes too bc they are the only spurs who can shoot straight. Not a deal killer but still
That’s exactly who has to go out to make the salaries work. Devin has to go to free guard minutes for Dylan, anyway.

[Mr. Body]

Jesus Christ, just think things through.

You've got Fox, Wemby, and Durant. Those are your big mouths to feed. And if you extend Durant then this is the situation for the next three years or so.

How the fuck are you getting Harper enough touches to get him going? If you want him to get to his ceiling, you'll need his usage rate to start going up.

This... y'all just being fucking morons, to be honest. Durant isn't sitting in the corner on kick-outs. This is so academically clear, I'm not surprised it's not obvious to you. It's clearly a problem.

[dn0774]

Yea I figured as much, wanted to hear what reasoning he has. KD has been playing the 4 for years now, Harper projects as a 1-2. I’m not the biggest fan of KD from a locker room/vibes perspective, but he is one of the most competent and capable players in the history of the league whose game should age like wine even with his injury history.

[Mr. Body]

Wemby, Fox, and Durant all have around a 28-30% usage rate. You'll want Harper to pretty quickly get there too.

Tell me your magic idea of what math is.

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

That’s exactly who has to go out to make the salaries work. Devin has to go to free guard minutes for Dylan, anyway.

Ok just looked at stats and vassell can go, woof

keep champ and mamu and they'll be fine

[exstatic]

Wemby, Fox, and Durant all have around a 28-30% usage rate. You'll want Harper to pretty quickly get there too.

Tell me your magic idea of what math is.

Kawhi Leonard’s USG% his first 3 seasons: 14.5,16.4,18.3

[dn0774]

Wemby, Fox, and Durant all have around a 28-30% usage rate. You'll want Harper to pretty quickly get there too.

Tell me your magic idea of what math is.

I would say with Durant in the hypothetical mix that Fox and KD need to see their usage ticking down (KD's minutes need to drop quite a bit too) while the ascending player (Wemby) mostly keeps his usage. Harper in a rookie season will get his opportunities but expecting big things out of him in year 1 isn't realistic. If his talent/trajectory is undeniable then adjust accordingly. I am very high on Harper but I am not expecting miracles in season 1 or 2, his shooting splits in college just don't indicate that.

[Chinook]

I don't know why folks think it would hurt Harper or Castle to spend 2-3 years learning how to defend and shoot rather than being high-usage guys who focus on "creating" at the expense of those fundamental skills. scott once pointed out that Castle had much better defensive metrics before he took over as a main option. The Spurs should want to build on that version him way more than the one who played at the end of the year. Scouts talk about Harper's off-ball potential, but he wasn't able to show that as the only decent creator at Rutgers. So if he can evolve a screen-and-shooting game and learn to use his length to be a positive defender, how does that hurt him?

People keep fantasizing about having a 10-year window with Wemby, but you only get that by layering talent. I don't think the Spurs wit`h Durant would be full contenders, but I do think they'd be a dark-horse team, and if the West breaks the right way, that can mean a run. Then in a couple of years, you make the (W)right decision again and keep it going. That may mean that the Spurs have developed a new star or two. That might mean trading away some of the talent accumulated for a star from another team. But the idea of drafting a handful of guys and have them play their whole careers together has been pretty thoroughly crushed by the new CBA. Long-term success in the new NBA requires sacrifice, both in terms of teams letting guys go and guys accepting less if they want to be on the best teams. Gone tomorrow, here today. It would be foolish for the Spurs not to take advantage of an opportunity to add a GOAT scorer candidate onto a team with four top-10 picks and an All-Star in his prime trying to fast-track guys you hope can be All-Star players in five years.

[Chinook]

Wemby, Fox, and Durant all have around a 28-30% usage rate. You'll want Harper to pretty quickly get there too.

Tell me your magic idea of what math is.

Why do you want Harper to get there pretty quickly? In terms of the team winning, they just want whomever is to do so efficiently and in a way that would be hard to game plan against. For Harper, there's nothing wrong with a more conservative usage rate as he detoxes from his year in college, learns the NBA game and develops new skills. For the rest of the players, it's probably best to not have to rely as much on a rookie PG setting them up.

[scott]

One thing adding KD could facilitate, if you built the rest of the roster properly, is the ability to have 2-3 “alphas” on the court for a full 48 minutes if you stagger their minutes properly. That will mean higher USG minutes for guys like Castle and Harper while one or more of Wemby/Fox/KD are resting.

That feels like it would give the Spurs a pretty rare ability in terms of filling out a full 48 minutes. Obviously Castle and Harper aren’t quite the players the other three are yet (and maybe they never will be), but maybe you see where I’m going with this. Having 4 on the court at the same time, let alone all 5, may not be many minutes on a game in, game out basis (although… Castle is a SF… so you could start all 5 :))

[tbdog]

Durant to spurs makes sense. When it's time to move on from Durant either through retirement or letting the contract expire, it might be time to move on from Fox if Harper is ready. And who knows what picks we get in the future.

[benefactor]

Why do you want Harper to get there pretty quickly? In terms of the team winning, they just want whomever is to do so efficiently and in a way that would be hard to game plan against. For Harper, there's nothing wrong with a more conservative usage rate as he detoxes from his year in college, learns the NBA game and develops new skills. For the rest of the players, it's probably best to not have to rely as much on a rookie PG setting them up.
He didn't want Fox either. He thinks we can just draft these guys and they magically turn into franchise players

[timtonymanu]

He didn't want Fox either. He thinks we can just draft these guys and they magically turn into franchise players

Not only that. He doubled down and said Fox was worse than Chris Paul when Fox had a sample size of 3 games with us lol

[Knoxxx]

I like Barnes but trading him and Vassell - whose contract nobody seems to like - plus the 14 pick and perhaps some of our surplus SRPs and one of our own unattached FRPs is a no brainer to get Durant.

Then we are running a potential lineup of:

Fox
Harper
Castle
Durant
Wemby

That stacks up well against any other starting lineup in the league and doesn’t even account for a potential PF free agent add or backup center upgrade with current draft 38 pick.

AND it still leaves us with Sochan, KJ, Champagnie off the bench.

Now may be the time to get your long shot bet down on Spurs winning it all next season.

[benefactor]

I think most of us understand what kinds of players we need in order to compete for a championship. Focusing on minutes and touches is short-sighted. Having quality veterans like Fox and Durant are part of the process and not the end game. More than likely they will not be a part of the finished product. But having them here as part of the process is good for the young players...especially with a young coach. Quality veterans take the pressure off while teaching them how to be professionals. They will take the team to the playoffs and show the young guys what it's like to be there and compete there. If they catch lightning in a bottle, great. If it's just part of building then that is great too. Either way good comes from it when we were talking about what you want the finished product to look like.

[benefactor]

Look at SGA and Halliburton. Time, development and team building done the right way. Durant is an all-time great player. Fox is one of the best point guards in the league. These guys are helping the team be good while giving the good young players important experience.

[timtonymanu]

Too much smoke around this KD speculation for it not to happen. It’s very similar to the Fox situation before he was traded.

[timtonymanu]

Agree with bene. We are seeing a young team and a young coach in OKC struggle against proven players like Jokic and then getting flustered by Rick Carlisle. Mitch can turn out to be a solid coach but he’s still very much unproven. Having vets around can only do good things. I don’t believe in that spurs fan “not in our timeline” nonsense that they like to spew especially on Reddit. This isn’t the Tim Duncan era NBA anymore.

[Russ]

Of all the idiotic trade rumors, KD makes the most sense.

Although he's a bit of a diva, he's way lower maintenance and less disruptive than Giannis.

He has a connection to the Texas area and also to Pop who was in charge for arguably KD's finest hour, the 2021 Olympics.

Most importantly, KD would be the perfect tutor for Wemby because of the way they both can or should play.

I don't like most of these veteran trade scenarios, but this one I could live with.

[Mnky]

Jesus Christ, just think things through.

You've got Fox, Wemby, and Durant. Those are your big mouths to feed. And if you extend Durant then this is the situation for the next three years or so.

How the fuck are you getting Harper enough touches to get him going? If you want him to get to his ceiling, you'll need his usage rate to start going up.

This... y'all just being fucking morons, to be honest. Durant isn't sitting in the corner on kick-outs. This is so academically clear, I'm not surprised it's not obvious to you. It's clearly a problem.

You're literally making room for touches by moving vassell and Keldon. Take the time to read. Harper is posed to have more touches with the backcourt getting cleared out. He plays the same role vassell and Keldon play. No KD and he's competing with them for minutes.

Trade for KD, and he inherits their minutes. It helps Harper. You're literally stuck on the worse argument against KD in it affecting Harper in a negative way. All signs point to Harper being better off with KD on the team.

[Mr. Body]

You're literally making room for touches by moving vassell and Keldon. Take the time to read. Harper is posed to have more touches with the backcourt getting cleared out. He plays the same role vassell and Keldon play. No KD and he's competing with them for minutes.

Trade for KD, and he inherits their minutes. It helps Harper. You're literally stuck on the worse argument against KD in it affecting Harper in a negative way. All signs point to Harper being better off with KD on the team.

Holy shit, no. C'mon. You're not drafting Harper to stick him on the bench for three years (at least), walling him off from being able to develop.

You people are being just shit-tier stupid about this. I'm not against considering Durant, but with him you already have three players who are around 30 percent usage rate right now. Castle might need another 20 percent. Already, even without Harper, and with Durant, you need things to give somehow.

So where does Harper develop? Huh?

You're just being goddamn fucking dumb.

[skin27]

Holy shit, no. C'mon. You're not drafting Harper to stick him on the bench for three years (at least), walling him off from being able to develop.

You people are being just shit-tier stupid about this. I'm not against considering Durant, but with him you already have three players who are around 30 percent usage rate right now. Castle might need another 20 percent. Already, even without Harper, and with Durant, you need things to give somehow.

So where does Harper develop? Huh?

You're just being goddamn fucking dumb.


actually harper can start.

Starting five with durant:

fox
harper
kd
sochan
wemby

or

fox
harper
Champaigne
kd
wemby

[cutewizard]

Let's ask Wemby

Ohhhh wait, he likes Durant, hehehe

[RC_Drunkford]

Agree with bene. We are seeing a young team and a young coach in OKC struggle against proven players like Jokic and then getting flustered by Rick Carlisle. Mitch can turn out to be a solid coach but he’s still very much unproven. Having vets around can only do good things. I don’t believe in that spurs fan “not in our timeline” nonsense that they like to spew especially on Reddit. This isn’t the Tim Duncan era NBA anymore.

people always talk about timelines when it comes to age, but forget the more important one: salary

[cutewizard]

https://youtu.be/34ukoUEVik0?si=qZWLuz0u6IjFu--J

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Do you really see a video titled 'No way...' with a label 'This is wild' and click on it?

[objective]

So if OKC chokes it hard and loses in the finals, that opens up an opportunity for Durant to come in as the savior, the prodigal son returning to reclaim the title. Salary matching should be easy with Hartenstein and parts, plus a bunch of draft picks. Who knows, could it happen?

[TD 21]

How does the presence of KD negatively affect Harper? I’m curious.

Even if it's doable, I'm skeptical they'll both end up here. Too many players who'll want/need the ball/usage to keep everyone content/satisfied.

Something tells me the Spurs won't want to deal with the fallout of that or the relative depletion of draft capital from Fox/Durant trades without somewhat replenishing it in the process.

[The Truth #6]

With Durant I debate if he keeps ending up in chaotic situations because either: 1) the ownership and team is trying to make an immediate splash and bring in KD to fix their pre-existing chaotic problems or, 2) KD is the problem and brings drama wherever he goes, Brooklyn, Phoenix, home, the grocery store, etc.

I didn't think GS was an already chaotic situation but Draymond was there and so that one could go either way.

Regardless, GS, Brooklyn, Phoenix all were chaotic with he being a part of that to some degree.

I can't see Brian Wright overpaying to get Durant in San Antonio, so if he does end up here I will assume it's some sort of minor victory. And with him getting a lot of shots up, that's probably good in that it puts some of our younger players and more minor players in their place with a more firm hierarchy.

Still, I'm not enamored with it but this is the NBA now.

But this thread is fun watching Mr. Body do his normal routine here, I guess.

[LeBowen]

Regardless, GS, Brooklyn, Phoenix all were chaotic with he being a part of that to some degree.

Brooklyn wasn't a chaotic situation before him and Kyrie got Atkinson fired so their buddy Nash can take over. They also insisted on Deandre as a starter ahead of Allen.


And with him getting a lot of shots up, that's probably good in that it puts some of our younger players and more minor players in their place with a more firm hierarchy.

I'd be fine with him taking a lot of shots, but he should be relieved of all the playmaking duties. We want FIBA KD.

[Leetonidas]

Do you really see a video titled 'No way...' with a label 'This is wild' and click on it?

:lol

[RC_Drunkford]

Even if it's doable, I'm skeptical they'll both end up here. Too many players who'll want/need the ball/usage to keep everyone content/satisfied.

Something tells me the Spurs won't want to deal with the fallout of that or the relative depletion of draft capital from Fox/Durant trades without somewhat replenishing it in the process.

heard Brian is eyeing the Knicks picks that Brooklyn got

[Mr. Body]

With Durant I debate if he keeps ending up in chaotic situations because either: 1) the ownership and team is trying to make an immediate splash and bring in KD to fix their pre-existing chaotic problems or, 2) KD is the problem and brings drama wherever he goes, Brooklyn, Phoenix, home, the grocery store, etc.

I didn't think GS was an already chaotic situation but Draymond was there and so that one could go either way.

Regardless, GS, Brooklyn, Phoenix all were chaotic with he being a part of that to some degree.

I can't see Brian Wright overpaying to get Durant in San Antonio, so if he does end up here I will assume it's some sort of minor victory. And with him getting a lot of shots up, that's probably good in that it puts some of our younger players and more minor players in their place with a more firm hierarchy.

Still, I'm not enamored with it but this is the NBA now.

But this thread is fun watching Mr. Body do his normal routine here, I guess.

Lmao it's not a routine. It's just basic common sense.

This ain't NBA2K. You can't just throw players together and see pixels move on a screen. Someone up there said Durant takes Keldon and Vassell's shots... That's not how it works. Those are role player shots, third and fourth options on kick-outs and other actions. Durant isn't using the same shot diet. At all.

It's already a problem that Castle and Harper want the same actions to get going (primarily ball screens top of the key extended) and that Fox also wants to get into the paint.

Durant with Castle-Fox-Wembanyama works. The problem is that there's no clear avenue to get Harper to develop properly. And squeezing your crossed fingers together and dreaming in EA Sports ain't gonna do it.

[LeBowen]

Durant with Castle-Fox-Wembanyama works. The problem is that there's no clear avenue to get Harper to develop properly.

I personally don't think KD has much to do with it.
Harper can definitely develop if we make it a three man guard rotation with each of them getting at least 30 minutes.
I don't want to see all three of them on the floor at the same time, regardless of who's at PF.

[spursparker9]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VabqAer_F5g

KD apparently told someone he was close with that he will be with the Spurs.

[The Truth #6]

Lmao it's not a routine. It's just basic common sense.

This ain't NBA2K. You can't just throw players together and see pixels move on a screen. Someone up there said Durant takes Keldon and Vassell's shots... That's not how it works. Those are role player shots, third and fourth options on kick-outs and other actions. Durant isn't using the same shot diet. At all.

It's already a problem that Castle and Harper want the same actions to get going (primarily ball screens top of the key extended) and that Fox also wants to get into the paint.

Durant with Castle-Fox-Wembanyama works. The problem is that there's no clear avenue to get Harper to develop properly. And squeezing your crossed fingers together and dreaming in EA Sports ain't gonna do it.

I think there are lots of ways this could play out. It sounds like you only see one way. Harper isn't even on the team yet. So it's hard for me to say we've already failed his development.

Also, Durant replacing Devin and Keldon's shots seems to imply those guys aren't on the team anymore, at least in some or most trade iterations. And Devin definitely doesn't play like he thinks he's a role player; Keldon has accepted that.

So while I see your specific concern, I don't agree completely at this juncture.

[objective]

"Whatever else happens, Spurs desperately need shooting on this team."

"What about trading for Durant who has averaged 41.5% from 3 over the last 5 seasons?"

"No.'

:lol:

[RC_Drunkford]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VabqAer_F5g

KD apparently told someone he was close with that he will be with the Spurs.

I keep tellin y'all

[sfernald]

This isn’t fucking y2k man how many 40%+ 3 pt shooters can this team possible handle!?

[RC_Drunkford]

This isn’t fucking y2k man how many 40%+ 3 pt shooters can this team possible handle!?

the more the better

[sfernald]

the more the better

yeah I was joking, Durant fits any team honestly.

[heyheymymy]

I could see this just being KD and PHX using SA while stirring the pot to up his general trade value or get a non-Spurs suitor to panic and boost their offer. Wonder if Spurs are half considering KD just to keep him off HOU etc lol jk

But agree with others who say it has the same smoke feel as the Fox build up so we will see.

[exstatic]

I could see this just being KD and PHX using SA while stirring the pot to up his general trade value or get a non-Spurs suitor to panic and boost their offer. Wonder if Spurs are half considering KD just to keep him off HOU etc lol jk

But agree with others who say it has the same smoke feel as the Fox build up so we will see.

KD has no interest in the outcome for PHO, only where he lands.

[Ice009]

I could see this just being KD and PHX using SA while stirring the pot to up his general trade value or get a non-Spurs suitor to panic and boost their offer. Wonder if Spurs are half considering KD just to keep him off HOU etc lol jk

But agree with others who say it has the same smoke feel as the Fox build up so we will see.

I really don't know. Was just thinking about what you said earlier today. I'm 50/50 on what you said and on it also it being real.

[mystargtr34]

If the trade is Durant for Vassell + Keldon + #14 + a few SRP’s then that leaves the rotation as folllows.

Wemby / FA
Durant / Barnes
Sochan / LaRavia
Castle / Harper
Fox / Harper

That 3 guard rotation of Fox-Castle-Harper leaves plenty of minutes for each.

We know the Spurs need a backup C via FA or trade (Kornet, Capela, Lopez, Adams etc.)

It would be interesting to see what the Spurs do at the forward spots. Sign LaRavia hopefully to fill up one spot with Barnes in the other spot.

That’s a solid lineup, but not sure if Sochan is ready to be a starter on a playoff team or contender with that shakey shot.

You could then make a run at PJ Washington by returning that Dallas pick swap in 2030 and adding Barnes to the deal plus a couple second round picks. Dallas would also have to send Dwight Powell to make salaries work who the Spurs could use as depth.

Now this lineup looks ready to make noise in the playoffs by next season.

Wemby / FA
Durant / LaRavia
PJ Washington / Sochan
Castle / Harper
Fox / Harper

[Ice009]

If the Spurs were to get Durant, a certain name pops out there. I wonder how close he is with Steven Adams. Maybe he could sway Adams to come to the Spurs?

Man, the more I think about it, I think if the Spurs do get him, he's really going to have some pull. You might see some players jump over at discounts.

[exstatic]

If the trade is Durant for Vassell + Keldon + #14 + a few SRP’s then that leaves the rotation as folllows.

Wemby / FA
Durant / Barnes
Sochan / LaRavia
Castle / Harper
Fox / Harper

That 3 guard rotation of Fox-Castle-Harper leaves plenty of minutes for each.

We know the Spurs need a backup C via FA or trade (Kornet, Capela, Lopez, Adams etc.)

It would be interesting to see what the Spurs do at the forward spots. Sign LaRavia hopefully to fill up one spot with Barnes in the other spot.

That’s a solid lineup, but not sure if Sochan is ready to be a starter on a playoff team or contender with that shakey shot.

You could then make a run at PJ Washington by returning that Dallas pick swap in 2030 and adding Barnes to the deal plus a couple second round picks. Dallas would also have to send Dwight Powell to make salaries work who the Spurs could use as depth.

Now this lineup looks ready to make noise in the playoffs by next season.

Wemby / FA
Durant / LaRavia
PJ Washington / Sochan
Castle / Harper
Fox / Harper

If PHO is offloading Durant for Pennie’s, they’re going to want short contracts, Barnes, not Keldon. They’re already eating 4 years of Vassell.

[tbdog]

I know the rumour is Vassell, but I think the Spurs will offer Keldon and a better pick or 2 for Durant instead.

[Russ]

If the trade is Durant for Vassell + Keldon + #14 + a few SRP’s then that leaves the rotation as folllows.



That seems like a bit of an overpay.

Let the D. Fox trade be your guide.

Maybe #14 (I would even be hesitant there) plus either Vassell or KJ. Max.

It's not like Phoenix holds that many cards (to paraphrase our gutter-dwelling prez).

[exstatic]

I know the rumour is Vassell, but I think the Spurs will offer Keldon and a better pick or 2 for Durant instead.

Vassell is needed for salary purposes, and to clear shots and touches for Harper.

[thOOdee]

I could see this just being KD and PHX using SA while stirring the pot to up his general trade value or get a non-Spurs suitor to panic and boost their offer. Wonder if Spurs are half considering KD just to keep him off HOU etc lol jk

But agree with others who say it has the same smoke feel as the Fox build up so we will see.


either way win win. Houston can be a legit thorn in our side if they play their cards right. If this causes them to overpay, awesome.

[objective]

I'd be fine with offering the ATL 27 instead of the 14 this year

East is hard to stay out of the play-in mix because of all the bad teams and I think Jalen Johnson and Risacher will be even better then ... Don't feel great about that pick. Plus there's a bunch of guys I like at 14 this year

[Ice009]

I'd be fine with offering the ATL 27 instead of the 14 this year

East is hard to stay out of the play-in mix because of all the bad teams and I think Jalen Johnson and Risacher will be even better then ... Don't feel great about that pick. Plus there's a bunch of guys I like at 14 this year

Like another poster has said throughout this season, they're a Trae Young injury away from the lottery. I think Trae played most of the games this season and they barely made it. Their second best player was out for a while, though, but that just shows their still a ways from being elite.
Do you guys think they're a top 6 team if fully healthy as they're constructed currently?

[mo7888]

Like another poster has said throughout this season, they're a Trae Young injury away from the lottery. I think Trae played most of the games this season and they barely made it. Their second best player was out for a while, though, but that just shows their still a ways from being elite.
Do you guys think they're a top 6 team if fully healthy as they're constructed currently?

As currently constructed, I think they are between 8 and 12 in the eastern conference

[cd98]

I think Tre Young is eligible for the supermax. If the Mavs traded Luka, I don’t know why Atlanta wouldn’t trade Young. I think Young is a great player but not a supermax…if he gets it, it won’t age well.

[SpursBills]

Lmao it's not a routine. It's just basic common sense.

This ain't NBA2K. You can't just throw players together and see pixels move on a screen. Someone up there said Durant takes Keldon and Vassell's shots... That's not how it works. Those are role player shots, third and fourth options on kick-outs and other actions. Durant isn't using the same shot diet. At all.

It's already a problem that Castle and Harper want the same actions to get going (primarily ball screens top of the key extended) and that Fox also wants to get into the paint.

Durant with Castle-Fox-Wembanyama works. The problem is that there's no clear avenue to get Harper to develop properly. And squeezing your crossed fingers together and dreaming in EA Sports ain't gonna do it.

These are all reasonable concerns.

Let me ask you this then - based on what you see, in your opinion, does Harper with Castle-Fox-Wembanyama work? It seems like your issue is more with the Harper-Castle fit than anything to do with Durant. Would you advocate for trading out of 2 for a lower lottery pick and additional assets?

Personally, I subscribe a little bit to the Chinook model here. Love what Harper brings, but it's not necessarily wrong for the first year for him to work on some of his very glaring weaknesses that he showed this year - re-learning how to be a good defender (since I think he was decent in high school), utilizing his frame to become a good rebounder, being able to take advantage of a bent defense rather than being forced to create something against a set defense. In order to truly become a good primary option, he has to develop a pull up jumper and something like that is going to take several years for him to develop. You've compared him to Harden in the past, but Harden also came off the bench for several years in OKC and was known as a a good off-ball player and defender in his OKC years. The same holds for Castle, who I'm hoping plays a bit more like how he did at the beginning of the year next year as a big utility guard, continuing to work on his off-ball game, and bringing his on-ball stuff along more gradually.

Additionally, and this may be wishful thinking on my part, but I'm hoping that Durant's trajectory resembles something like Dirk's later years where his usage tailed off gradually around his age 35 season. I would also say that if you are utilizing KD as a pure play-finisher, his usage may continue to be high but his time of possession can be reduced to allow the guards room to create.

Again, I think your concerns are valid, but I think there is probably a way to develop Harper while still incorporating KD to thread the developmental needle.

[objective]

Like another poster has said throughout this season, they're a Trae Young injury away from the lottery. I think Trae played most of the games this season and they barely made it. Their second best player was out for a while, though, but that just shows their still a ways from being elite.
Do you guys think they're a top 6 team if fully healthy as they're constructed currently?

They had serious non-Trae injuries this season and only gave the Spurs the 14th pick.

They were even 4-2 in the 6 games he missed, I wouldn't say that a Snyder coached team is ever in danger of being that terrible. I do think they're an easy playoff team in the East if healthy. Sure they probably lose Capela in free agency, but they still have picks 13 & 21 to work with

And if PHX wants that pick instead to get the deal done then I'm fine with it. Sure there's a risk it becomes the #1 pick, but it could also be the 16th pick with no chance to move up. And it gets the Spurs Kevin Durant now. Having to give something to get something is normal, they can't all be Rasheed or Mourning trades where teams got a lot less than the Kings got for Fox

[tbdog]

You can put protections on the swaps.

[kht]

How much better is KD than Vassell? Can Vassell get any better? Phoenix should jump all over this if Vassell/KJ/#14 are on the table...

[Mnky]

Holy shit, no. C'mon. You're not drafting Harper to stick him on the bench for three years (at least), walling him off from being able to develop.

You people are being just shit-tier stupid about this. I'm not against considering Durant, but with him you already have three players who are around 30 percent usage rate right now. Castle might need another 20 percent. Already, even without Harper, and with Durant, you need things to give somehow.

So where does Harper develop? Huh?

You're just being goddamn fucking dumb.

Him being the leader of the bench unit would be way more development than him playing next to wemby, castle, and fox, if you want a usage rate.

Once again, KD affects absolutely nothing in either scenario. Whether he's there or not.

[John B]

How much better is KD than Vassell? Can Vassell get any better? Phoenix should jump all over this if Vassell/KJ/#14 are on the table...

Trading Vassell is necessary to clear minutes for Harper. Also Vassell’s stock would take a hit sharing minutes. Spurs should trade while the iron is hot. But I’m not too crazy for a 2-yrs rental KD, especially if it includes #14. I think this draft is deep on solid role players like a Naz Reid defensive type player even at #14, Bryant, Fleming, Essengue, or if they want to go big Sorber. I rather they use future FRP’s, ATL swap, etc instead.

[objective]

Anyone who has hope of Harper playing legit minutes better hope for a Vassell trade. Durant, Collins, PJ, whoever, but Vassell is bad news for Harper time and on ball development

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWLWQ1AK5a8

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sir Kevin, Apollo reincarnated......please arrive at Spursland! See you mega-archer!!!!!!!!!!!

[cutewizard]

By gawd, what an awesome sight it would be...........

One of the absolutely greatest players of all time, to mentor Wemby.........

[spursistan]

26/6/4 on 64.% TS guys don't grow on trees-- much less coming off multiple knee injuries and an Achilles.

KD's longevity is vastly underrated; it is even more impressive than Lebron's IMO. Just an insanely skilled scorer and the most adept plug-and-play superstar we've ever seen. Durant would be perfectly cast in the Spurs and can shed off Option 1/Team Leader responsibilities (He isn't cut for the latter). Everyone knows it is Wemby's team on both counts, which would help ease the scoring pressure off him and lead him to expand more energy on the other end (especially team rebounding and even rim protection like in his GSW days). Suns going 3-17 without him is more of a reflection of (a) Booker being a fugazi franchise first option player, (b) their flawed supporting cast, and (c) Bud's atrocious coaching year which also included a debacle on the interpersonal side.

If KD costs you Vassell + 14 (plus flotsam seconds), it is a no brainer. The only issue is negotiating a reasonable extension.


https://x.com/PolymarketHoops/status/1911813044960719188

https://x.com/35wrlld/status/1931351389545865563

[cutewizard]

Durant
Harper
Steven Adams (or equivalent back-up center)
Back up power forward

And we are super competitive

Do itttttttttttttttttt Spurs Head office please...............

[benefactor]

How much better is KD than Vassell?
https://media1.tenor.com/m/FUItMRhUz3sAAAAd/chapelle-charlie-murphy.gif

[Frenchfred]

the only difficulty with KD is managing egos. Not everybody is going to score 20+ PPG in the team and some player are playing for their contract (Castle and Harper mostly) so they might feel that KD's presence is going to impact how much money they can make. That's on the coach to manage minutes properly to avoid that problem. With Fox, Castle, Harper, KD and Wemby, you have potential scoring threats and you should have two of them all the time on the floor