Phoenix Suns expect to part ways with Kevin Durant this offseason. Could the Spurs be a good landing place?

[cd98]

The hard part is giving up our best three point shooter for another great shooter in Durant, but one with age and mileage and if he got injured, we'd be hurting badly on 3 point shooting.

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

The hard part is giving up our best three point shooter for another great shooter in Durant, but one with age and mileage and if he got injured, we'd be hurting badly on 3 point shooting.

With Durant, spurs have no shooting problem

Without Durant, spurs have a shooting problem. Regardless of barnes/vassell or not

(Am a big fan of Barnes but KD obv on a different planet)

[exstatic]

The hard part is giving up our best three point shooter for another great shooter in Durant, but one with age and mileage and if he got injured, we'd be hurting badly on 3 point shooting.

Shooting is one thing Durant does. Shooting is the only thing Barnes does.

[SpursFan86]

1931751151860420763

As of now the Spurs are very slight favorites over Houston to get KD. Seems the market views SA/Houston as the two clear most likely destinations. Next couple of weeks are going to be interesting!

[Kevin]

Wouldn’t be surprised if the Spurs also include the 38. That would give the Suns a full draft class this year picking at 14, 38 and 52.

Dev/Barnes/14/38 plus two future second round picks.

[CGD]

Wouldn’t be surprised if the Spurs also include the 38. That would give the Suns a full draft class this year picking at 14, 38 and 52.

Dev/Barnes/14/38 plus two future second round picks.

Don’t go bidding against yourself now. Obviously the Suns are interested, but is Houston even interested in KD?

[exstatic]

Wouldn’t be surprised if the Spurs also include the 38. That would give the Suns a full draft class this year picking at 14, 38 and 52.

Dev/Barnes/14/38 plus two future second round picks.

Phoenix not only traded their firsts, they traded almost all of their seconds. We’ve got FOUR extra SRPs in 2026. I’d be OK if the Spurs dropped two of those into the pot, as long as we retain the Utah SRP.

[scott]

1931751151860420763

As of now the Spurs are very slight favorites over Houston to get KD. Seems the market views SA/Houston as the two clear most likely destinations. Next couple of weeks are going to be interesting!

I wish I had the ability to pull up historical odds maker predictions for player destinations. My hypothesis is that of all the things that bookmakers put odds on… this is the area where their odds are the most meaningless.

[duncan2150]

Trading Vassell is necessary to clear minutes for Harper. Also Vassell’s stock would take a hit sharing minutes. Spurs should trade while the iron is hot. But I’m not too crazy for a 2-yrs rental KD, especially if it includes #14. I think this draft is deep on solid role players like a Naz Reid defensive type player even at #14, Bryant, Fleming, Essengue, or if they want to go big Sorber. I rather they use future FRP’s, ATL swap, etc instead.

Anyone who has hope of Harper playing legit minutes better hope for a Vassell trade. Durant, Collins, PJ, whoever, but Vassell is bad news for Harper time and on ball development

Harper will just takes paul's minutes ( 28 per game).

Not as high as some on KD, sure he will be a nice addition but if we are after a 3/4 i prefer to get someone younger.

[cd98]

Spurs are good at not overpaying for a player, so it will be interesting. Houston should have a better offer if they are putting the 10th pick on the table. So either Houston is not putting the 10th pick on the table, which should mean that we should only offer a protected future first round pick, or Durant is telling the Suns he wants SA, which also allows Spurs to pay less than market if Durant won't accept going anywhere else.

Minnesota and Knicks don't have great assets to trade. Suns want a pick and even a protected future could be like top 3 protected or top 5 protected and that would be worth it. Or even a protected pick swap.

[cd98]

With Durant, spurs have no shooting problem

Without Durant, spurs have a shooting problem. Regardless of barnes/vassell or not

(Am a big fan of Barnes but KD obv on a different planet)

Well, in giving up Vassell and Barnes, Spurs give up their two highest percentage 3 point shooters. Yes, Durant is an elite shooter, but if he got injured, losing those two shooters would really hurt. Spurs should look to add another shooter, if possible.

[tbdog]

What do you think rockets have on the table?

[exstatic]

Well, in giving up Vassell and Barnes, Spurs give up their two highest percentage 3 point shooters. Yes, Durant is an elite shooter, but if he got injured, losing those two shooters would really hurt. Spurs should look to add another shooter, if possible.

Playing with a ragtag band of youngsters and Wemby, Barnes shot his career high of 43.3%. Makes me wonder if KD could shoot 45-46% from 3, playing off Wemby. That would be fun to watch.

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

Vassell is garbage

[exstatic]

What do you think rockets have on the table?

I’m not sure it matters if he’s said he’ll only extend in SA.

[DPG21920]

What do you think rockets have on the table?

I would imagine something like FVV + Jock+ 10 + PHX 27 for KD + 29 something like that maybe?

Or a third team where HOU sends Jalen Green + Jock + picks to PHX for KD + 29 and another player like Cam Whitmore or whatever gets routed to a different team for a pick

[Degoat]

On the HOU fan site, I see them talking about trading Jalen which sorta surprises me.

[exstatic]

On the HOU fan site, I see them talking about trading Jalen which sorta surprises me.
I think they’ve figured out he’s nothing but a show pony.

[Ditty]

My guess is that Durant wants to settle in Austin after his playing days are over.

Especially with his rumored involvement in trying to bring a WNBA Team to Austin.

That is probably a significant reason SA is at the top of his list, as he can travel between ATX and SA for games and then realize how shitty traffic is in Austin and then hitting construction traffic getting into SA :lol.

I believe the Suns, now without Sarver, will help him reach his desired destination imo, as they know they are not competing anytime soon.

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ikmc0D31x4


--------------------------------------------

Remembering how good he is........

[RC_Drunkford]

My guess is that Durant wants to settle in Austin after his playing days are over.

Especially with his rumored involvement in trying to bring a WNBA Team to Austin.

That is probably a significant reason SA is at the top of his list, as he can travel between ATX and SA for games and then realize how shitty traffic is in Austin and then hitting construction traffic getting into SA :lol.

I believe the Suns, now without Sarver, will help him reach his desired destination imo, as they know they are not competing anytime soon.

yes that's part of it. The reason he wants to leave Phoenix is because the Suns tried to sneaky trade him at the deadline, like Dallas did with Luka and KD got wind of it. The Suns also never asked if he was willing to extend, which is stupid.

[Ocotillo]

1931751151860420763

As of now the Spurs are very slight favorites over Houston to get KD. Seems the market views SA/Houston as the two clear most likely destinations. Next couple of weeks are going to be interesting!

It's understandable that the Spurs and Rox are considered the most likely. Odds makers are looking at Phoenix side in which they will want to maximize the haul of draft capital. Question is, are the two Texas teams willing to part with as much capital as Phoenix will want. I suspect the two teams will not be as willing as some may think.

[exstatic]

It's understandable that the Spurs and Rox are considered the most likely. Odds makers are looking at Phoenix side in which they will want to maximize the haul of draft capital. Question is, are the two Texas teams willing to part with as much capital as Phoenix will want. I suspect the two teams will not be as willing as some may think.

It doesn’t matter what Phoenix wants. They burned their bridges with him, he won’t extend, and they have to take whatever they can get or lose him for nothing in 2026. Other agents and players are watching this go down. They risk being an undesirable destination if they dick around with this.

The driver in this trade is where will KD agree to extend. That will determine his price by likely cutting the market to only one team, like Fox did.

[Ocotillo]

It doesn’t matter what Phoenix wants. They burned their bridges with him, he won’t extend, and they have to take whatever they can get or lose him for nothing in 2026. Other agents and players are watching this go down. They risk being an undesirable destination if they dick around with this.

The driver in this trade is where will KD agree to extend. That will determine his price by likely cutting the market to only one team, like Fox did.

Yeah, my whole point was the odds are based from the Phoenix perspective but that they are being more optimistic than I believe they should.

[exstatic]

Yeah, my whole point was the odds are based from the Phoenix perspective but that they are being more optimistic than I believe they should.

I think on something like this,the odds are based on nothing, just conjecture.

[Chillen]

I don't blame KD in 2023 for wanting the Suns. They made the Finals in 2021 and he thought he was the missing piece of the puzzle. Most of that Finals run was driven by CP3 so when they traded him for Beal and than Ayton for Nurkic, Allen is when the ship started to sink. Spurs are a smarter franchise than Suns and Nets so they won't make stupid mistakes like that. I hope he wants to come here and will only extend with Spurs.

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

sPurS aRe so GoOd wheRe WIll mInUtES Be For Kd aNd DyLaN?

[John B]

I think on something like this,the odds are based on nothing, just conjecture.

Is there a realistic chance of CP3 coming back to ring chase with pal KD? I know there is very little minutes but if he’s willing to come from the bench and more of a playing coach. It would be nice to send CP3 off with a ring.

[Ddm5]

Let's just say when the dust settles and KD does end up joining the Spurs. Since he only has one year left of his contract, is the mentality by the team to bring him back on a cheaper contract? Because if not, that'd be a tough extension to take in.

[John B]

Let's just say when the dust settles and KD does end up joining the Spurs. Since he only has one year left of his contract, is the mentality by the team to bring him back on a cheaper contract? Because if not, that'd be a tough extension to take in.

It’s not impossible for KD to help the Spurs bring solid role players. Players know how Spurs do the right things for their players and there are expectations from the players to leave their egos behind. I know Pop is no longer the HC but it’s still going to be the Spurs culture in San Antonio.

[Teamduncan21]

It’s not impossible for KD to help the Spurs bring solid role players. Players know how Spurs do the right things for their players and there are expectations from the players to leave their egos behind. I know Pop is no longer the HC but it’s still going to be the Spurs culture in San Antonio.


And that's why cp3 started in all games last year despite Spurs already had fox. It's to show Spurs take care of their players. There's good and bad from it but that's the brand Spurs is building

[Teamduncan21]

It’s not impossible for KD to help the Spurs bring solid role players. Players know how Spurs do the right things for their players and there are expectations from the players to leave their egos behind. I know Pop is no longer the HC but it’s still going to be the Spurs culture in San Antonio.


And that's why cp3 started in all games last year despite Spurs already had fox. It's to show Spurs take care of their players. There's good and bad from it but that's the brand Spurs is building

[Davidicus]

Yeah two things I’m worried most about if trade goes through is 1) his extension $ and 2) making sure he doesn’t play too much iso. Would be a good test of the Mitch + Pop dynamic, if it ever becomes a problem. I have faith that it will all work out though - $, basketball X’s and O’s, and spurs culture.

[exstatic]

Is there a realistic chance of CP3 coming back to ring chase with pal KD? I know there is very little minutes but if he’s willing to come from the bench and more of a playing coach. It would be nice to send CP3 off with a ring.

Doubtful. His whole thing last year was “I wanna hoop”, and with Fox, Castle, and Harper, that WOULD be too many PGs.

[R. DeMurre]

That Beal trade was just so horrendous: 5 FRPs for a 30 yr old player whose raw stats routinely were far ahead of his impact stats. Adding another guy who needed shots in addition to Durant and Booker was such a bad idea, plus he's a slightly undersized SG not know for defense-- historically, a bad archetype. That trade shows the dangers of going all in on a piece that is obviously not a high impact guy. They would've had so much more success chasing a guy like Caruso, who would've been cheaper and more impactful. Phoenix saw the Lakers make the mistake of losing Caruso in favor of a bad fit like Westbrook, and then replicated it. It amazes me that owners and GMs are still blinded by raw stats from high salary players with exceedingly mediocre fits. It's the worst mistake you can make in the modern NBA.

[Arguendo]

Another difference is that KAT doesn't know how to defend, but literally.
He still commits those same stupid fouls that were an issue when he was younger and he still goes on tilt easily.

And another difference is that KD does not actually suck on D, he is above average. And he grades as way above average in foul rate, isolation and pick&roll D. He's above average in PPP and Stl%. As a shot-blocker (Blk%) he's ranked 41st, 23rd, 30th, and 20th the past 4 yrs, and most of the guys above him are 15 to 20min a game back-up center D focused guys.
His % was tied for 20th 5 yrs ago, but didn't play enough to qualify. He is a very good to elite shot blocker, you can expect him to be top 30 in the league in Blk%. And he's done this as an O-focus, high usage, elite O player, which makes his D even more impressive.
His D has been much better since moving to the Big W/4 position and he does it without fouling much. He has learned to positioned himself correctly and use his length, he is not a below average defender. That is simply not true.

[Ice009]

Is there a realistic chance of CP3 coming back to ring chase with pal KD? I know there is very little minutes but if he’s willing to come from the bench and more of a playing coach. It would be nice to send CP3 off with a ring.

Since when are they pals? Chris Paul got traded from the Suns and in a game last season, seems that KD had a heated exchange with him. I don't think they're friends at all.

[Leetonidas]

Bill Simmons opining that this trade is already agreed upon and just waiting til the draft to be announced

[Arguendo]

actually its very simplistic your either all nba or your not he aint on that level no more period and its on the way down from here. dont compare him to jokic tbh its not even close.
Yup, Wemby ain't All-NBA. Luka ain't All-NBA. Simple, context is stupid, surface is what counts, don't try to understand the why.
Duncan was way overrated defensively, not even one DPOY. Marc Gasol was clearly a more impactful defender, simple.

[John B]

Since when are they pals? Chris Paul got traded from the Suns and in a game last season, seems that KD had a heated exchange with him. I don't think they're friends at all.

I wouldn’t take much on that. Both are super competitive and expected to act in the heat of the moment. But CP3 admired KD and welcomed his addition to the Suns, having played with KD multiple times in All-Star and Olympics. I just thought there’s something special going on in the Spurs, planets seem to be aligning and it’s not the right time to leave. I’m sure the Spurs would welcome CP3 back IF for a lesser role. I think it’s ceremonial even to pass the baton.

[Leetonidas]

“I wouldn't be surprised if KD to the Spurs is done already and they just haven't announced it,” Simmons said on “The Bill Simmons Podcast.” “Basically, they've agreed on specifics, just announce it on the week of the draft. This goes back to the Giannis thing. I think they trade for KD because it just costs less. They'll be able to be real competitive and maybe go a couple of rounds in the playoffs, but they're also going to keep the No. 2 pick and do it that way, which is my prediction.”

:stirpot:

[BatManu20]

Bill Simmons opining that this trade is already agreed upon and just waiting til the draft to be announced

1932099089174245602

[Leetonidas]

I don't see why they would wait to announce it though. Like what benefit is there to waiting to make an announcement

[LeBowen]

For the sake of discussion, what if the trade doesn't include Vassell?
We obviously want him gone because he's had enough chances to prove his worth and failed, but maybe Wright still rates him.
As I said many times, Vassell would require a third team in the trade because Suns don't need or want him.

Suns have just 10 players on the roster for the next season, 12 if they use #29 and #52 in the draft, 11 without KD.

I think they'd rather consider something like Barnes, Keldon, Jeremy, Wesley, #14 and a bunch of SRPs than getting Vassell.
As much as I want to get rid of Vassell, I also wouldn't mind not having to fit Jeremy's flaws into the roster.

[CorrectCrusader]

Sounds like this is all but certain now, KD will be a spur.

[exstatic]

For the sake of discussion, what if the trade doesn't include Vassell?
We obviously want him gone because he's had enough chances to prove his worth and failed, but maybe Wright still rates him.
As I said many times, Vassell would require a third team in the trade because Suns don't need or want him.

Suns have just 10 players on the roster for the next season, 12 if they use #29 and #52 in the draft, 11 without KD.

I think they'd rather consider something like Barnes, Keldon, Jeremy, Wesley, #14 and a bunch of SRPs than getting Vassell.
As much as I want to get rid of Vassell, I also wouldn't mind not having to fit Jeremy's flaws into the roster.

The trade needs to be either Vassell/Keldon or Vassell/Barnes for salary reasons. Peoplebitchedabouthimbeing overpaid, but that contract will be the key to getting KD for a mid first rounder.

[CorrectCrusader]

For the sake of discussion, what if the trade doesn't include Vassell?
We obviously want him gone because he's had enough chances to prove his worth and failed, but maybe Wright still rates him.
As I said many times, Vassell would require a third team in the trade because Suns don't need or want him.

Suns have just 10 players on the roster for the next season, 12 if they use #29 and #52 in the draft, 11 without KD.

I think they'd rather consider something like Barnes, Keldon, Jeremy, Wesley, #14 and a bunch of SRPs than getting Vassell.
As much as I want to get rid of Vassell, I also wouldn't mind not having to fit Jeremy's flaws into the roster.

That would be good, because Vassell is the best player out of all those you listed. I wouldn't mind giving him another year to at minimum up his trade value.

[John B]

For the sake of discussion, what if the trade doesn't include Vassell?
We obviously want him gone because he's had enough chances to prove his worth and failed, but maybe Wright still rates him.
As I said many times, Vassell would require a third team in the trade because Suns don't need or want him.

Suns have just 10 players on the roster for the next season, 12 if they use #29 and #52 in the draft, 11 without KD.

I think they'd rather consider something like Barnes, Keldon, Jeremy, Wesley, #14 and a bunch of SRPs than getting Vassell.
As much as I want to get rid of Vassell, I also wouldn't mind not having to fit Jeremy's flaws into the roster.

If #14 is gone. I rather trade Vassell and #38 to get to the 1st round and pick a defensive big, maybe Reynaud?

[Spurs9]

I've seen enough of Bright Wright to fully trust him as GM. If he decides to actually get KD, I trust that he wouldn't overpay for him with an extension. Loves Barnes, but Vassel/Barnes won't move the needle much.

[LeBowen]

The trade needs to be either Vassell/Keldon or Vassell/Barnes for salary reasons.

Why? Suns have enough roster spots open and those 4 players I mentioned would combine for $49M. We could theoretically add another one if needed.
Second apron restrictions are for aggregating outgoing salaries, not incoming.

[Degoat]

Who does we think is actually involved between Dev, Barnes, KJ, and Soachan? I kinda think it could be Dev+KJ+14

[SpursFan86]

I suspect it’ll be Vassell/Barnes/14. Barnes has value as an expiring contract and I don’t think the Spurs are ready to give up on or move Sochan at this time.

It’d be great to move Keldon instead but just don’t think Phoenix will go for that.

[John B]

Who does we think is actually involved between Dev, Barnes, KJ, and Soachan? I kinda think it could be Dev+KJ+14

I actually like Keldon’s energy and has embraced that 6th man role.

[Chinook]

I don't see why they would wait to announce it though. Like what benefit is there to waiting to make an announcement

The league discourages trades being announced during the Finals. If it's agreed to, it likely won't be talked about until draft week. Also, if the trade requires them to use next year's finances, they may not want to announce it a month before it can be completed.

Depending on how much Durant, Fox and potentially Wemby are willing to leave on the table, the Spurs might not be willing/required to include Vassell. If that's the play, they'll need to use next year's figures to make the numbers work. Or they might be roping in other teams who aren't essential for getting this deal done but for flexibility purposes need to be part of this trade to allow the Spurs and/or Suns to make follow-up deals.

[Guru of Nothing]

All the various offseason plots could thin quickly if a Durant deal falls into place. I'm assuming Phoenix would target only the #14, Vassell, and Barnes, and from here it's pretty easy to see how the 15-man roster shakes out.

1 - Wemby
2 - Durant
3 - Fox
4 - Castle
5 - Sochan - (RFA or 3-years/$50, 3rd year team option)
6 - Harper
7 - CP3 - back to chase a ring for the next year or two
8 - Champ
9 - KJ
10 - Wesley
11 - Branham
12 - #38 pick - 7-footer project
13 - Biyombo - has one job: mentor the #38 pick
14 - Mamu - He's Malik Rose to me, dammit.
15 - Harrison Ingram - smart guy who will probably a fantastic addition to the Spurs FO one day.

Practice beefs ought to be great (Anchorman style). I can see it, with OG Durant spearheading the bigs and CP3 flashing gang signals to his team of guards.

[LeBowen]

CP3 - back to chase a ring for the next year or two

No.
Just no.
We can't draft Harper and give CP3 another season.

[John B]

All the various offseason plots could thin quickly if a Durant deal falls into place. I'm assuming Phoenix would target only the #14, Vassell, and Barnes, and from here it's pretty easy to see how the 15-man roster shakes out.

1 - Wemby
2 - Durant
3 - Fox
4 - Castle
5 - Sochan - (RFA or 3-years/$50, 3rd year team option)
6 - Harper
7 - CP3 - back to chase a ring for the next year or two
8 - Champ
9 - KJ
10 - Wesley
11 - Branham
12 - #38 pick - 7-footer project
13 - Biyombo - has one job: mentor the #38 pick
14 - Mamu - He's Malik Rose to me, dammit.
15 - Harrison Ingram - smart guy who will probably a fantastic addition to the Spurs FO one day.

Practice beefs ought to be great (Anchorman style). I can see it, with OG Durant spearheading the bigs and CP3 flashing gang signals to his team of guards.

I’m down with that line-up. But I think they’ll move that #38 plus to get to the 1st round though and get a defensive PF, hopefully Fleming.

[John B]

No.
Just no.
We can't draft Harper and give CP3 another season.

I think the CP3 with GSW and CP3 with Spurs are not the same. Yes he wanted to ball, but he took pride on mentoring the young core and maybe taking ownership on bringing the winning culture back. I wouldn’t be surprised if he takes less minutes and be part of a winning team. This is not GSW that he’s having pissing contest with Curry as the GOAT PG. IF he wants back as more a playing coach with less minutes, I think the Spurs would welcome him back. It’s felt good story for CP3 finally getting a ring, and KD “showing ways” to Wemby as his young Padawan.

[LeBowen]

I wouldn’t be surprised if he takes less minutes and be part of a winning team.

The thing is that there are no minutes available. Fox and CP3 can't play together as we've seen this season.
Unlike Castle, Harper is a natural point guard and we want him to be the primary ballhandler when Fox isn't on the floor.

[Guru of Nothing]

No.
Just no.
We can't draft Harper and give CP3 another season.

I'm not opposed to CP3 back in a very reduced role (somewhere between Branham and Wesley in terms of playing time), but regardless, I'd be surprised if he's not actively working this angle this offseason anyway. Just kind of expect him to be on the team come week 1, one way or another.

[exstatic]

Why? Suns have enough roster spots open and those 4 players I mentioned would combine for $49M. We could theoretically add another one if needed.
Second apron restrictions are for aggregating outgoing salaries, not incoming.

Salary matching. Keldon/Barnes won’t be enough. Vassell’s $27 is needed. We only have 10 players under contract, and trading 4 for 1 means we have 2 exceptions to fill 7-8 spots, with the rest being minimum salary.

[LeBowen]

Salary matching. Keldon/Barnes won’t be enough. Vassell’s $27 is needed. We only have 10 players under contract, and trading 4 for 1 means we have 2 exceptions to fill 7-8 spots, with the rest being minimum salary.

Then we'll be looking for a third team.

[Arguendo]

Jesus Christ, just think things through.

You've got Fox, Wemby, and Durant. Those are your big mouths to feed. And if you extend Durant then this is the situation for the next three years or so.

How the fuck are you getting Harper enough touches to get him going? If you want him to get to his ceiling, you'll need his usage rate to start going up.

This... y'all just being fucking morons, to be honest. Durant isn't sitting in the corner on kick-outs. This is so academically clear, I'm not surprised it's not obvious to you. It's clearly a problem.
Assuming Durant is here the next 3 yrs, why would Fox need to be?
I really don't understand why everyone is intent on giving Fox the next Levine and Beal likely albatross contract. Levine just likely had is best season, was the best volume 3pt shooter in NBA last yr (KD was #2), it was his most efficient scoring season and the Bulls were begging to give him any. Beal is even worse but he's been an efficient scorer in PHX. Fox will not be 25 again, and isn't and haven't ever been close to the shooter Levine/Beal are- shooting ages better than speed.
We got him at a time and price where it was a definite "Yes" to the trade, but now? Landscape has changed. Even in a sign&trade, we can recoup a lot of what we paid for Fox.
Steph gave me confidence he is ready to be an adequate #3 guy on a team with two 24-25ppg guys (Wemby and KD), just with the way to moves the ball and gets to the line. If he takes a 3% jump, he's a good to very good #3 at 21. And/or Harper may look like at adequate #3 next yr. Harper/Castle as 3a/3b behind Vic/KD may be optimal. Shit I'd prolly prefer Harper/Castle/Champ/KD/Vic to Fox/Harper/Castle/KD/Vic, one is balanced one is very imbalanced. But KD is not the imbalance there.

Keeping Fox is not terrible, esp considering Harper just turned 19 and Steph turns 21 in Nov, and we can stagger minutes, likely expect Wemby and KD to play 72 games max and KD plays closer to 30mpg vs the 36-37mpg he's played in Phx, touches can be found...but if we can off Vassell for KD and get value for Fox, that's my preferred route.

I wanted no part of giving him a full max extension before Harper. Now, 3 more yrs of Fox, fine, I'll live with it but it likely hurts Steph and Harper and the odds of Fox feeling marginalized go up every month. 5 yrs? Absolutely NO.
The landscape looks different for Fox too. He wanted to come here when we had a unknown 19y/o maybe PG rookie, than that rookie won the ROY showing at least quality secondary handler skills while being elite at getting to the line, than we land a potential Superstar big PG who also gets to the line a ton. Does Fox really want to spend the last of his prime yrs fighting for PT/touches with two guys that may well look like better players (w/similar styles) then him very shortly?

That said, there's still a KD rental situation that is worth it simply to get off of Vassell and Harper's 19 all next season, he can run the bench unit 15mpg and get his lead touches with Fox off and at least one of Vic/KD taking his kick-outs. I'm not sure that Harper needs more than 15mpg leading to learn the ropes at 19, than when he's on with Fox/Wemby/KD he can work on other skills and develop those and his all-around game.

[Seventyniner]

Giving Fox an extension makes him more tradable if it ever comes to that. Teams won't give up much for a one-year rental. Something less than the max would help even more.

[John B]

The thing is that there are no minutes available. Fox and CP3 can't play together as we've seen this season.
Unlike Castle, Harper is a natural point guard and we want him to be the primary ballhandler when Fox isn't on the floor.

With Vassell gone, Castle playing combo SF. CP3 has to agree backup minutes. I wouldn’t give Sochan the starting until he proves he can shoot.

You have to agree, CP3, KD and Wemby would be prime time TV.

Wemby, Biyombo, #38
Durant, Sochan, Mamu
Castle, Keldon, Barnes
Harper, Champ, Branham
Fox, CP3, Wesley

Maybe get Capela or Adams instead of Biyombo.

[SpurSpike]

CP3 ain't coming back, he is on record recently saying he wants to be "Dad" now. So he is either retiring or going to an LA team.

[RC_Drunkford]

Let's just say when the dust settles and KD does end up joining the Spurs. Since he only has one year left of his contract, is the mentality by the team to bring him back on a cheaper contract? Because if not, that'd be a tough extension to take in.

I listened to a bunch of Suns fans discuss the trade with some of them supposedly having the inside scoop. They say that KD is not looking for a max extension. They are also saying Vassel, Barnes and #14 sounds about right and that the Suns won't get good value back since Ishbia will spearhead the deal and work with Durant. They even said it could be no first round picks involved.


I don't blame KD in 2023 for wanting the Suns. They made the Finals in 2021 and he thought he was the missing piece of the puzzle. Most of that Finals run was driven by CP3 so when they traded him for Beal and than Ayton for Nurkic, Allen is when the ship started to sink. Spurs are a smarter franchise than Suns and Nets so they won't make stupid mistakes like that. I hope he wants to come here and will only extend with Spurs.

they had Myles Turner + 1 first rounder on the table for Ayton and went with Nurkic and Allen :lol


For the sake of discussion, what if the trade doesn't include Vassell?
We obviously want him gone because he's had enough chances to prove his worth and failed, but maybe Wright still rates him.
As I said many times, Vassell would require a third team in the trade because Suns don't need or want him.

Suns have just 10 players on the roster for the next season, 12 if they use #29 and #52 in the draft, 11 without KD.

I think they'd rather consider something like Barnes, Keldon, Jeremy, Wesley, #14 and a bunch of SRPs than getting Vassell.
As much as I want to get rid of Vassell, I also wouldn't mind not having to fit Jeremy's flaws into the roster.

That's actually what I'm hoping for. We could even exclude Wesley and put Bassey in the deal as a sign-and-trade piece, since the Suns want a center.

[RC_Drunkford]

All the various offseason plots could thin quickly if a Durant deal falls into place. I'm assuming Phoenix would target only the #14, Vassell, and Barnes, and from here it's pretty easy to see how the 15-man roster shakes out.

1 - Wemby
2 - Durant
3 - Fox
4 - Castle
5 - Sochan - (RFA or 3-years/$50, 3rd year team option)
6 - Harper
7 - CP3 - back to chase a ring for the next year or two
8 - Champ
9 - KJ
10 - Wesley
11 - Branham
12 - #38 pick - 7-footer project
13 - Biyombo - has one job: mentor the #38 pick
14 - Mamu - He's Malik Rose to me, dammit.
15 - Harrison Ingram - smart guy who will probably a fantastic addition to the Spurs FO one day.

Practice beefs ought to be great (Anchorman style). I can see it, with OG Durant spearheading the bigs and CP3 flashing gang signals to his team of guards.


you got half the roster wrong


I think the CP3 with GSW and CP3 with Spurs are not the same. Yes he wanted to ball, but he took pride on mentoring the young core and maybe taking ownership on bringing the winning culture back. I wouldn’t be surprised if he takes less minutes and be part of a winning team. This is not GSW that he’s having pissing contest with Curry as the GOAT PG. IF he wants back as more a playing coach with less minutes, I think the Spurs would welcome him back. It’s felt good story for CP3 finally getting a ring, and KD “showing ways” to Wemby as his young Padawan.

you think too much instead of just listening to what CP3 himself said...

[SpursFan86]

CP3 is not coming back. Of all the wildcards sitting out there right now this is one we don’t need to worry about discussing/pondering.

[RC_Drunkford]

Assuming Durant is here the next 3 yrs, why would Fox need to be?
I really don't understand why everyone is intent on giving Fox the next Levine and Beal likely albatross contract. Levine just likely had is best season, was the best volume 3pt shooter in NBA last yr (KD was #2), it was his most efficient scoring season and the Bulls were begging to give him any. Beal is even worse but he's been an efficient scorer in PHX. Fox will not be 25 again, and isn't and haven't ever been close to the shooter Levine/Beal are- shooting ages better than speed.
We got him at a time and price where it was a definite "Yes" to the trade, but now? Landscape has changed. Even in a sign&trade, we can recoup a lot of what we paid for Fox.
Steph gave me confidence he is ready to be an adequate #3 guy on a team with two 24-25ppg guys (Wemby and KD), just with the way to moves the ball and gets to the line. If he takes a 3% jump, he's a good to very good #3 at 21. And/or Harper may look like at adequate #3 next yr. Harper/Castle as 3a/3b behind Vic/KD may be optimal. Shit I'd prolly prefer Harper/Castle/Champ/KD/Vic to Fox/Harper/Castle/KD/Vic, one is balanced one is very imbalanced. But KD is not the imbalance there.

Keeping Fox is not terrible, esp considering Harper just turned 19 and Steph turns 21 in Nov, and we can stagger minutes, likely expect Wemby and KD to play 72 games max and KD plays closer to 30mpg vs the 36-37mpg he's played in Phx, touches can be found...but if we can off Vassell for KD and get value for Fox, that's my preferred route.

I wanted no part of giving him a full max extension before Harper. Now, 3 more yrs of Fox, fine, I'll live with it but it likely hurts Steph and Harper and the odds of Fox feeling marginalized go up every month. 5 yrs? Absolutely NO.
The landscape looks different for Fox too. He wanted to come here when we had a unknown 19y/o maybe PG rookie, than that rookie won the ROY showing at least quality secondary handler skills while being elite at getting to the line, than we land a potential Superstar big PG who also gets to the line a ton. Does Fox really want to spend the last of his prime yrs fighting for PT/touches with two guys that may well look like better players (w/similar styles) then him very shortly?

That said, there's still a KD rental situation that is worth it simply to get off of Vassell and Harper's 19 all next season, he can run the bench unit 15mpg and get his lead touches with Fox off and at least one of Vic/KD taking his kick-outs. I'm not sure that Harper needs more than 15mpg leading to learn the ropes at 19, than when he's on with Fox/Wemby/KD he can work on other skills and develop those and his all-around game.

Fox is way better than Lavine and Beal. He would make less money than Beal on his max extension and only 2 million more than Lavine, while being younger. I don't understand your concerns here. People seem to overrate Harper on this board. Harper has 0 pull up shooting ability, not even from midrange and it's not a sure thing that the Spurs will draft him.

[John B]

you got half the roster wrong



you think too much instead of just listening to what CP3 himself said...

The 1st game of the Finals ranked the lowest viewers since 1988 (excluding COVID). Adam Silver would love CP3 and KD in the Spurs. If KD is truly coming to the Spurs, it would be very hard for CP3 to walk off, with the planets seem to be aligning for the Spurs.

[Ice009]

The 1st game of the Finals ranked the lowest viewers since 1988 (excluding COVID). Adam Silver would love CP3 and KD in the Spurs. If KD is truly coming to the Spurs, it would be very hard for CP3 to walk off, with the planets seem to be aligning for the Spurs.

If the Spurs draft Harper, there isn't really any room for CP3 IMO.

And how many Spurs fans are going to bang on about trading Fox. The Spurs will not trade Fox after he asked to come here, so stop asking about it. They probably don't even consider it for 2-3 years, and that is only if Harper shows he's worth the max.

[RC_Drunkford]

The 1st game of the Finals ranked the lowest viewers since 1988 (excluding COVID). Adam Silver would love CP3 and KD in the Spurs. If KD is truly coming to the Spurs, it would be very hard for CP3 to walk off, with the planets seem to be aligning for the Spurs.

I don't know what drugs you are using when CP3 did a 20 minute interview and all kind of journalists are already saying he won't return. You can keep halucinating all you want.

[John B]

Hot take. Suns makes the KD trade to the Spurs seamless. The Suns get #1 pick next year :lol

[CGD]

I don't see why they would wait to announce it though. Like what benefit is there to waiting to make an announcement

I’d kinda want to see if anyone they love or anyone unexpectedly falls to #14 before announcing, wouldn’t you? Like what if Maluach falls unexpectedly? It’s a long shot obviously, but maybe a good reason to wait to announce it concurrently to when they’re supposed to pick. I suspect this is what happens in most cases.

[dn0774]

Fox is way better than Lavine and Beal. He would make less money than Beal on his max extension and only 2 million more than Lavine, while being younger. I don't understand your concerns here. People seem to overrate Harper on this board. Harper has 0 pull up shooting ability, not even from midrange and it's not a sure thing that the Spurs will draft him.

Not to mention that he hasn't even played a second of professional basketball yet. We already have people on these boards penciling Harper in for a max extension in 3 years lol. The kid has a lot to work on still based on his college tape. He has some creation/driving skills that can't be taught but that doesn't mean he will automatically hit. Long story short, having Fox in the fold is awesome and necessary at this juncture, maybe in a couple years if Castle and Harper hit like we hope we can look to move Fox.

I am just feeling slightly relieved that the Spurs appear to be on the KD track rather than the Giannis track though I a lot can change between now and draft night.

[John B]

I’d kinda want to see if anyone they love or anyone unexpectedly falls to #14 before announcing, wouldn’t you? Like what if Maluach falls unexpectedly? It’s a long shot obviously, but maybe a good reason to wait to announce it concurrently to when they’re supposed to pick. I suspect this is what happens in most cases.

If there’s already an agreement between two parties, it’s not like the Spurs to back out. But it would be wise to let the draft take its course and see if anything would be available at #38 or if they need to trade and move up. Maybe a trade with Nets for one of their picks to get Fleming.

[exstatic]

Hot take. Suns makes the KD trade to the Spurs seamless. The Suns get #1 pick next year :lol

Booker will keep them on the mediocrity treadmill, preventing that from happening.

[dn0774]

I’d kinda want to see if anyone they love or anyone unexpectedly falls to #14 before announcing, wouldn’t you? Like what if Maluach falls unexpectedly? It’s a long shot obviously, but maybe a good reason to wait to announce it concurrently to when they’re supposed to pick. I suspect this is what happens in most cases.

Yea many reasons to not announce actually. The Suns might have a different target for #14 than we would, by announcing on draft night after the pick it prevents teams from sniping a Suns target potentially. Could also wait to complete the trade until after the 14th pick has signed so that the salary counts towards the trade against KD's salary I think. I wouldn't be surprised to see the trade as a 3 teamer if it happens with Vassell going somewhere that isn't PHX (seen a lot of rumors about Brooklyn).

[dn0774]

double post

[exstatic]

If there’s already an agreement between two parties, it’s not like the Spurs to back out. But it would be wise to let the draft take its course and see if anything would be available at #38 or if they need to trade and move up. Maybe a trade with Nets for one of their picks to get Fleming.

There is probably a framework place, conditional on certain players not being available. I’m guessing there are probably several backup deals, in case PHO changes their minds.

[exstatic]

If there’s already an agreement between two parties, it’s not like the Spurs to back out. But it would be wise to let the draft take its course and see if anything would be available at #38 or if they need to trade and move up. Maybe a trade with Nets for one of their picks to get Fleming.

There is probably a framework place, conditional on certain players not being available. I’m guessing there are probably several backup deals, in case PHO changes their minds.

[John B]

Yea many reasons to not announce actually. The Suns might have a different target for #14 than we would, by announcing on draft night after the pick it prevents teams from sniping a Suns target potentially. Could also wait to complete the trade until after the 14th pick has signed so that the salary counts towards the trade against KD's salary I think. I wouldn't be surprised to see the trade as a 3 teamer if it happens with Vassell going somewhere that isn't PHX (seen a lot of rumors about Brooklyn).

It would be nice to get that Brooklyn pick and a shot at drafting Fleming. I’ve not given up on Wolf too :lol

[SpursFan86]

1932167439191834673

I know betting odds might not be as relevant/predictive for something like this, but still feel like it’s pretty telling that Vegas is now hardly willing to take 50/50 odds that KD ends up in SA.

Really starting to get to the point where I might be more surprised if we don’t get KD. Now it’s just a matter of what we’re giving up…

[Death In June]

How do people view current KD when compared to a player like Markkanen. Better fit, better player, worse or a wash?

[scott]

And another difference is that KD does not actually suck on D, he is above average. And he grades as way above average in foul rate, isolation and pick&roll D. He's above average in PPP and Stl%. As a shot-blocker (Blk%) he's ranked 41st, 23rd, 30th, and 20th the past 4 yrs, and most of the guys above him are 15 to 20min a game back-up center D focused guys.
His % was tied for 20th 5 yrs ago, but didn't play enough to qualify. He is a very good to elite shot blocker, you can expect him to be top 30 in the league in Blk%. And he's done this as an O-focus, high usage, elite O player, which makes his D even more impressive.
His D has been much better since moving to the Big W/4 position and he does it without fouling much. He has learned to positioned himself correctly and use his length, he is not a below average defender. That is simply not true.

KD’s defensive catch all advanced metrics all took a pretty significant nose-dive last season, ranking him as a bottom third percentile defender. Maybe it was just a blip, maybe it was playing on a dysfunctional Suns team… or maybe it’s the age catching up to him

[LeBowen]

I know betting odds might not be as relevant/predictive for something like this, but still feel like it’s pretty telling that Vegas is now hardly willing to take 50/50 odds that KD ends up in SA.

Really starting to get to the point where I might be more surprised if we don’t get KD. Now it’s just a matter of what we’re giving up…

Betting on such irrelevant things that can easily be manipulated shouldn't be allowed.
It's too easy for insiders to sway the odds if they want to.
Not saying it's happening in this case, but betting should be limited to the stuff that actually happens during games.


How do people view current KD when compared to a player like Markkanen. Better fit, better player, worse or a wash?

Better fit if he accepts the FIBA role and doesn't insist on handling the ball.
Invaluable experience and way more guarantee that he'll deliver.
No long term salary issues.

[Leetonidas]

Hot take. Suns makes the KD trade to the Spurs seamless. The Suns get #1 pick next year :lol

confusing read but I think they would have to cough that pick up if they did :lol


"WAS has the right to swap its 2026 1st round pick, protected for selections 9-30, for PHX's 2026 1st round pick; ORL then has the right to swap its 2026 1st round pick for the less favorable of the PHX pick and the WAS pick if conveyable; MEM then has the right to swap its 2026 1st round pick for the least / less favorable of the PHX pick, the WAS pick if conveyable and the ORL pick and CHA will receive the least favorable of these; if the WAS pick is not conveyable, then the commitment to WAS will be lifted and ORL will instead have the right to swap its pick for the PHX pick (via PHX to CHA)"

[RC_Drunkford]

KD probably told the Suns he wants to go to the Spurs. The package should be less than the expected Vassell + Barnes + #14 if it's a 3-team deal. If the Spurs somehow keep Vassell in this trade, I'll tell y'all right now they gonna trade down from #2.

[mudyez]

I still hope, we somehow won't include #14 as I see at least one nice young big falling to us (probably Fleming) and I don't like to miss out on that opportunity.

Give them some seconds and the rights to Nunez, while maybe giving them a rejuvinated Vassell that might make us look stupid (a little bit like with White).

[vy65]

Hope I'm wrong, but this thread is veering dangerously close to Bonner + Blair for Lebron territory.

[mudyez]

Well, some might view Vassell as not more than a salary to get rid of, I see a valuable player, that a) doesn't fit with our upcoming threesome of guards and b) needs a change of scenery

And while some might see KD as a superstar, I see him as a rental that fits nicely but will present some salary cap issues if extended too long. He also is already tanking his value.

[cutewizard]

Might be a done deal already

[PhantomDashCam]

If the Spurs are dealing for KD, I assume a third team (an Eastern Conference team at that) must be involved.
When was the last time Spurs traded rotation pieces to a Western rival straight up? Josh Richardson 2023?

[Uriel]

I think it's almost certain at this point that the Suns will get at least one additional asset (Sochan or 2026/27 1st or pick #38) in addition to the aforementioned framework of Vassell, Johnson, and pick #14.

[rjv]

lots of shams on this board.

[Ice009]

Hot take. Suns makes the KD trade to the Spurs seamless. The Suns get #1 pick next year :lol

They don't have their own first round draft pick, though, do they?

[Mr. Body]

I think it's almost certain at this point that the Suns will get at least one additional asset (Sochan or 2026/27 1st or pick #38) in addition to the aforementioned framework of Vassell, Johnson, and pick #14.

Uh... if those are the choices, I pick #38.

[couchman]

Happy to see a few voices bringing sanity to Castle and Harper convos.
To read this board you’d think they’re both already all stars and future HOFers.
Castle isn’t even a net positive player yet, and his shooting splits are disgusting in a bad way.
His defense fell off a cliff last year as well.
Harper looks very promising but he couldn’t even lead his college team to the NCAA tourney.
He is likely years away from whatever he will be.
Fox and Durant are proven NBA performers who can lighten the load on everyone, show young pups how to win, and allow young players to focus on their strengths and develop the right way. If you can get guys like that in a sweetheart deal you go for it.

[RC_Drunkford]

If the Spurs are dealing for KD, I assume a third team (an Eastern Conference team at that) must be involved.
When was the last time Spurs traded rotation pieces to a Western rival straight up? Josh Richardson 2023?

It‘s most likely a 3-team deal cause the Suns want a center. If the Spurs can route a center to Phoenix that should lower the overall asking price

[vy65]

Suns:
Vucevic
Barnes

Chi:
Vassell
#14

SA
KD

Would be hilarious if Zollins is used instead of Vuc

[objective]

While I don't believe there's an agreement in place, I could easily see the Spurs having given the Suns a final standing offer that the Sun's are using as a backstop. If they can shake out a better deal they'll grab it, but they have their own deadline of the draft to settle things.

Because they have a new guy with no pro experience in charge of the front office plus a rookie coach and the owner announcing he'll be more involved, I could see them taking weeks to be convinced that the deals are the deals are the deals.

[Leetonidas]

It‘s most likely a 3-team deal cause the Suns want a center. If the Spurs can route a center to Phoenix that should lower the overall asking price

Maybe something like:

Durant to SA
Claxton, Barnes 26 and 27 to Phoenix
Vassell and 14 to Brooklyn

[Degoat]

Man the spacing out there for Fox, Harper, Castle with Wemby and Durant out on the 3pt line is nice!!

[poopbox]

While I don't believe there's an agreement in place, I could easily see the Spurs having given the Suns a final standing offer that the Sun's are using as a backstop. If they can shake out a better deal they'll grab it, but they have their own deadline of the draft to settle things.

Because they have a new guy with no pro experience in charge of the front office plus a rookie coach and the owner announcing he'll be more involved, I could see them taking weeks to be convinced that the deals are the deals are the deals.

Probably goes the opposite way as Ishibia hasn't shown any patience for anything since being an owner.

[kxs783kms]

Man the spacing out there for Fox, Harper, Castle with Wemby and Durant out on the 3pt line is nice!!

Yep because all of your smaller guys will be driving in the paint trying to get buckets while your 7 footers shoot 3's.

[ace3g]

Someone having fun with photoshop online, lol

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GtDBlbBWQAAEv_S?format=jpg&name=large

[Uriel]

What do ya’ll think about this theoretical lineup:

PG - Fox
SG - Cunningham
SF - Iguodala
PF - Durant
C - Wembanyama

Is there synergy between these players? Do they fit well together?

[MaNu4Tres]

While I don't believe there's an agreement in place, I could easily see the Spurs having given the Suns a final standing offer that the Sun's are using as a backstop. If they can shake out a better deal they'll grab it, but they have their own deadline of the draft to settle things.

Because they have a new guy with no pro experience in charge of the front office plus a rookie coach and the owner announcing he'll be more involved, I could see them taking weeks to be convinced that the deals are the deals are the deals.

Durant has more leverage than people think.

It won’t be a bidding war to any degree.

See Fox situation.

[baseline bum]

All the various offseason plots could thin quickly if a Durant deal falls into place. I'm assuming Phoenix would target only the #14, Vassell, and Barnes, and from here it's pretty easy to see how the 15-man roster shakes out.

1 - Wemby
2 - Durant
3 - Fox
4 - Castle
5 - Sochan - (RFA or 3-years/$50, 3rd year team option)
6 - Harper
7 - CP3 - back to chase a ring for the next year or two
8 - Champ
9 - KJ
10 - Wesley
11 - Branham
12 - #38 pick - 7-footer project
13 - Biyombo - has one job: mentor the #38 pick
14 - Mamu - He's Malik Rose to me, dammit.
15 - Harrison Ingram - smart guy who will probably a fantastic addition to the Spurs FO one day.

Practice beefs ought to be great (Anchorman style). I can see it, with OG Durant spearheading the bigs and CP3 flashing gang signals to his team of guards.

I strongly doubt you're getting Sochan extended that cheap, which makes me think he will end up part of this trade if it happens.

[Trueblood]

Durant has more leverage than people think.

It won’t be a bidding war to any degree.

See Fox situation.

maybe, but I don’t really conflate the two situations because teams going after Fox wanted to sign him for a significantly longer time than teams that want Durant he’s got two, maybe three years left but Fox could be with the team for 6-7 years. The longer the team thinks they can keep the player the more leverage the player has by saying he won’t resign.

[Chillen]

Suns should make this trade before the draft so they can maybe move up from #14 with another trade.

[tbdog]

I assume it won't happen until mavs select Flagg?

[vy65]

1932102199045411072

[objective]

Durant has more leverage than people think.

It won’t be a bidding war to any degree.

See Fox situation.

I don't know, months later if feels like the Spurs overpaid. Fox and Spurs had all the leverage, Kings got 2 unprotected picks plus a 20+ scorer. The Minny pick itself was a lot.

A disgruntled 1-year player who needed surgery and had arguably already peaked athletically, which was most of his game?

Spurs paid heavy.

I don't want Durant if the cost is too high.

[objective]

Durant has more leverage than people think.

It won’t be a bidding war to any degree.

See Fox situation.

I don't know, months later if feels like the Spurs overpaid. Fox and Spurs had all the leverage, Kings got 2 unprotected picks plus a 20+ scorer. The Minny pick itself was a lot.

A disgruntled 1-year player who needed surgery and had arguably already peaked athletically, which was most of his game?

Spurs paid heavy.

I don't want Durant if the cost is too high.

[dn0774]

Durants "leverage" comes from teams not wanting to trade for anyone who is at risk of being a malcontent, essentially vibes etc. PHX & GSW could've called his bluff once KD got wind of that possible trade and said "nah" but they dropped it immediately. Sounds like Ishbia is intending to do right by KD and get him in his semi-preferred spot assuming the haul is at least competitive.

Under normal operating circumstances the Suns would be exclusively dealing with the Rockets in an attempt to pry some/all of their picks back (including shipping out Booker) and conduct a proper tank that is so badly needed. But Ishbia has no appetite for that and is deluded into thinking they can still assemble a contending team (which devalues the picks in the Rockets warchest) and thus makes San Antonio a viable trade partner for KD. The Rockets meanwhile will be content to short the Suns and keep those picks in hand rather than get just KD with them.

[T Park]

I don't know, months later if feels like the Spurs overpaid. Fox and Spurs had all the leverage, Kings got 2 unprotected picks plus a 20+ scorer. The Minny pick itself was a lot.

A disgruntled 1-year player who needed surgery and had arguably already peaked athletically, which was most of his game?

Spurs paid heavy.

I don't want Durant if the cost is too high.

wut.......

[dn0774]

I don't know, months later if feels like the Spurs overpaid. Fox and Spurs had all the leverage, Kings got 2 unprotected picks plus a 20+ scorer. The Minny pick itself was a lot.

A disgruntled 1-year player who needed surgery and had arguably already peaked athletically, which was most of his game?

Spurs paid heavy.

I don't want Durant if the cost is too high.

I think the trade was still good value. The picks could end up hurting, but the expectation was we would part with some Hawks picks and we didn't which felt like a win. If the '27 Spurs pick ends up being good then things clearly went off the rails (probably injuries), Spurs should be firmly entering a contention window by then. The '31 Wolves pick could end up anywhere, true, but that essentially came from the Raptors #8 pick conveying which was slightly lucky to happen, the Raptors seemed poised to tank that pick into irrelevance (2nd rounders).

Collins has negative value, sending that out is probably why we needed to include a 2nd unprotected in the deal. Tre Jones, probably neutral value all things considered..being an expiring helped. The 20+ point scorer the Kings got still has 2 seasons of huge money and has been shopped around for years, nobody wanted him (which probably wasn't fair, he was nice last year), Sacto actually taking him had Vivek's fingerprints all over it.

[spursistan]

Really feels more and more like it's a done deal. They are waiting for OKC/Indy to wrap up their Championship parade to announce it. It is pretty much an unwritten rule in the NBA that no big trades should go down while the Finals are going on..

It seems like the Intel that KD wants the Spurs is accurate. Everyone else is going to be a rental for him. At this point, only the Rockets can swoop in and beat our offer. I'm actually surprised by Houston inertia on that front. Do they really like their team and are getting fooled by that Second seed?

[sfernald]

Really feels more and more like it's a done deal. They are waiting for OKC/Indy to wrap up their Championship parade to announce it. It is pretty much an unwritten rule in the NBA that no big trades should go down while the Finals are going on..

It seems like the Intel that KD wants the Spurs is accurate. Everyone else is going to be a rental for him. At this point, only the Rockets can swoop in and beat our offer. I'm actually surprised by Houston inertia on that front. Do they really like their team and are getting fooled by that Second seed?

I think they’ve made it clear before they are holding out on those picks for Booker. They are content to wait for the shit to really hit the fan for phx. Maybe it happens next year! I would wait if I were them. Or go after Giannis once Spurs are no longer a competitor for him (after Durant trade).

[Chillen]

Good point maybe the deal with Suns is done and they are waiting for the Finals to end to announce it. I can't ever recall a trade being done with the Finals on so your right.

[spursistan]

Hope I'm wrong, but this thread is veering dangerously close to Bonner + Blair for Lebron territory.
Yeah they want a Top 2 scorer ever for a bag of chips :lol

To put things into perspective: a 37 year-old CP3 in 2022 would've cost you more in a trade than a 37 year-old KD would n 2025 and Durant is a superior player..

[Ditty]

Saying a 27-year-old NBA player already peaked athletically is wild :lol

[Mnky]

I don't know, months later if feels like the Spurs overpaid. Fox and Spurs had all the leverage, Kings got 2 unprotected picks plus a 20+ scorer. The Minny pick itself was a lot.

A disgruntled 1-year player who needed surgery and had arguably already peaked athletically, which was most of his game?

Spurs paid heavy.

I don't want Durant if the cost is too high.

Spurs did not pay heavy. They got a top 25 player in the league. Arguably top 20.

There's 30 teams in the NBA...people don't seem to understand what a big deal a top 20 player is. Spurs fan are legitimatly spoiled beyond belief.

[Mnky]

How do people view current KD when compared to a player like Markkanen. Better fit, better player, worse or a wash?

KD is still All NBA. He's in arguments for best SF every year. His fit is perfect next to Wemby both defense and offense wise. It's also perfect for him as he doesn't have to burden so much at his age.

Lauri would be a great addition but him and Wemby are the same type of player position wise. They don't fit as well as Durant but definitely can fit well together. They're both all around players and can adapt to each other when needed. Long term would be great but the price would likely be two or three times more than Durant. He hasn't been traded yet for a reason.

They want a ransom

[exstatic]

maybe, but I don’t really conflate the two situations because teams going after Fox wanted to sign him for a significantly longer time than teams that want Durant he’s got two, maybe three years left but Fox could be with the team for 6-7 years. The longer the team thinks they can keep the player the more leverage the player has by saying he won’t resign.

You’re still seeing this backwards. It doesn’t matter what teams are willing to pay, or for how many years. Durant has to want to sign.. No one is breaking the bank for a 37 YO on an ending contract without an agreement to extend.

[tbdog]

KD is still All NBA. He's in arguments for best SF every year. His fit is perfect next to Wemby both defense and offense wise. It's also perfect for him as he doesn't have to burden so much at his age.

Lauri would be a great addition but him and Wemby are the same type of player position wise. They don't fit as well as Durant but definitely can fit well together. They're both all around players and can adapt to each other when needed. Long term would be great but the price would likely be two or three times more than Durant. He hasn't been traded yet for a reason.

They want a ransom

Here is an interesting debate. Would you trade an extra spurs pick for Lauri or one less for KD?

[RC_Drunkford]

Maybe something like:

Durant to SA
Claxton, Barnes 26 and 27 to Phoenix
Vassell and 14 to Brooklyn

that's increasing the asking price. We're not putting up 3 picks to get KD. It's gon be 1 first and maybe a gang of seconds for Phoenix. We might try to get another rotation piece from that 3rd team as well and use an ATL pick for it. My guess is it's either Atlanta, Utah or NOLA. There are even rumors that ATL might ship Trae out to Phoenix, which makes zero sense to me.


Here is an interesting debate. Would you trade an extra spurs pick for Lauri or one less for KD?

I take KD everytime and that's also due to Lauri's contract.



I don't know, months later if feels like the Spurs overpaid. Fox and Spurs had all the leverage, Kings got 2 unprotected picks plus a 20+ scorer. The Minny pick itself was a lot.

A disgruntled 1-year player who needed surgery and had arguably already peaked athletically, which was most of his game?

Spurs paid heavy.

I don't want Durant if the cost is too high.

yeah man why didn't we trade Manu in 2006 and Tony in 2010 after they already peaked athletically. We would've won more chips with Duncan in his 30s, although he already peaked athletically in 2004. In 5 years we'll have to trade Wemby once he starts declining.

[Ice009]

I don't know, months later if feels like the Spurs overpaid. Fox and Spurs had all the leverage, Kings got 2 unprotected picks plus a 20+ scorer. The Minny pick itself was a lot.

A disgruntled 1-year player who needed surgery and had arguably already peaked athletically, which was most of his game?

Spurs paid heavy.

I don't want Durant if the cost is too high.

What?
Terrible post.

[Seventyniner]

that's increasing the asking price. We're not putting up 3 picks to get KD. It's gon be 1 first and maybe a gang of seconds for Phoenix. We might try to get another rotation piece from that 3rd team as well and use an ATL pick for it. My guess is it's either Atlanta, Utah or NOLA. There are even rumors that ATL might ship Trae out to Phoenix, which makes zero sense to me.

The #26 and #27 are coming from Brooklyn. The Spurs would only send out one pick, #14.

That trade is a combo of Vassell + Barnes + #14 for KD with Vassell + #14 for Claxton + #26 + #27. Maybe the Nets wouldn't do that but maybe they would, and it gets an extra pick to the Suns plus a center they need.

[Leetonidas]

that's increasing the asking price. We're not putting up 3 picks to get KD. It's gon be 1 first and maybe a gang of seconds for Phoenix. We might try to get another rotation piece from that 3rd team as well and use an ATL pick for it. My guess is it's either Atlanta, Utah or NOLA. There are even rumors that ATL might ship Trae out to Phoenix, which makes zero sense to me.



I take KD everytime and that's also due to Lauri's contract.




yeah man why didn't we trade Manu in 2006 and Tony in 2010 after they already peaked athletically. We would've won more chips with Duncan in his 30s, although he already peaked athletically in 2004. In 5 years we'll have to trade Wemby once he starts declining.

To clarify I meant the 26th and 27th picks BKN owns in this draft, not our 26 and 27 picks

[Seventyniner]

To clarify I meant the 26th and 27th picks BKN owns in this draft, not our 26 and 27 picks

I thought it was clear at first, but now that you point this out I can totally understand why it could have been read the other way.

[exstatic]

The #26 and #27 are coming from Brooklyn. The Spurs would only send out one pick, #14.

That trade is a combo of Vassell + Barnes + #14 for KD with Vassell + #14 for Claxton + #26 + #27. Maybe the Nets wouldn't do that but maybe they would, and it gets an extra pick to the Suns plus a center they need.

I don’t see Phoenix doing it without receiving #14. They’re sending out the biggest player asset, and would expect to receive the best draft asset.

[RC_Drunkford]

To clarify I meant the 26th and 27th picks BKN owns in this draft, not our 26 and 27 picks

my bad, I thought you meant the ATL swap and pick

[TimDunkem]

KD is a great target since you won't need to give up 2 or Castle.

14th + their choice of our trash (Barnes, Vassell, KJ). The only thing is that another team can probably put together a better deal, but who is willing to do that? KD is at the end of his career.

[montgod]

KD is a great target since you won't need to give up 2 or Castle.

14th + their choice of our trash (Barnes, Vassell, KJ). The only thing is that another team can probably put together a better deal, but who is willing to do that? KD is at the end of his career.

I'm okay with this even though I don't like losing out on a younger, talented player at #14 but it's really up to the FO and who they envision being more valuable at that spot when their pick comes up. Obviously, they won't make the deal if they feel a player is in their range that could be a diamond in the rough like a KL.

However, any thoughts of adding Nick Richards to the trade since he's on a 1 yr deal at 5mill (partially guaranteed) if indeed the trade moves forward? Would easily still work with any 2 of Vassell, KJ, Barnes and throwing in Wesley. He's serviceable as big down low w/some defensive ability.

[Kevin]

Lauri VS KD is an interesting topic.

If the price for KD really is Dev/Barnes and the 14 I'd be will to do that for Lauri plus the Spurs 2029 first unprotected. Lauri had a down season this year so his price drops as a buy low player.

Seems like KD is a done deal though.

[Dejounte]

Keldon, Branham, Sochan, Harrison Ingram, Castle, Minix all were volunteering for Food Bank.

No Vassell and some others… hmmm….

[spurraider21]

with Lauri, offensively he's basically a perfect fit. he's a heck of a shotmaker who doesnt need to dominate possessions to get his. in addition to his volume shooting he's one of the better closeout-beaters in the game and attacks the rim pretty aggressively. he's typically been a good enough rebounder too.

his issue is defensively where he's a non-factor. like, he's ok as a man defender. but as a team/help defender there really isnt much happening there.

he'd also be more expensive to acquire than Durant given his age. also gives you less flexiblity given his 4 year deal is about to kick in. but as far as being a complement to Wemby and Fox, its hard to think of anybody better than Lauri.

i think to land Lauri we'd have to send out #2, but could angle to get #5 back. send them a future swap as well. rest of the parts not too dissimilar from the KD stuff. or if we really insist on #2 not being part of the deal, we'd probably need to send Castle as part of the package alongside 14

[Dverde]

Keldon, Branham, Sochan, Harrison Ingram, Castle, Minix all were volunteering for Food Bank.

No Vassell and some others… hmmm….

Vassell probably out buying more ugly expensive clothes. I guess it’s still better than being at the strip club with Hardin.

[SpurSpike]

What if the Hawks went after Durant... That would really screw us, lol.

[Dverde]

Lauri VS KD is an interesting topic.

If the price for KD really is Dev/Barnes and the 14 I'd be will to do that for Lauri plus the Spurs 2029 first unprotected. Lauri had a down season this year so his price drops as a buy low player.

Seems like KD is a done deal though.

can we trade from someone not making between 46-54M a year? Poeltl at 20M seems like a bargain:lol

[Dverde]

What if the Hawks went after Durant... That would really screw us, lol.

Denver makes the most sense to me assuming Phoenix sees value in MPJ. Joker seems to have a couple exceptional years left before he gets tired of the grind and goes off to the horse ranch.

[Kevin]

can we trade from someone not making between 46-54M a year? Poeltl at 20M seems like a bargain:lol

Dev makes 28M for the next four years while Lauri gets about 46M over the same time frame. They can afford a Dev for Lauri swap.

[RC_Drunkford]

Keldon, Branham, Sochan, Harrison Ingram, Castle, Minix all were volunteering for Food Bank.

No Vassell and some others… hmmm….

Devin is usually out of San Antonio in the offseason. He's not really around at that time and works out elsewhere. He was in Spain longer than all the other guys at the NBPA facility. Minnix should get a contract next season and be on the main roster.


What if the Hawks went after Durant... That would really screw us, lol.

they might actually clean house instead

1932446359828754616

[Mr. Body]

Denver makes the most sense to me assuming Phoenix sees value in MPJ. Joker seems to have a couple exceptional years left before he gets tired of the grind and goes off to the horse ranch.

Phoenix is trying to get out of salary. That's one of the main motivations here.

[Mr. Body]

Denver makes the most sense to me assuming Phoenix sees value in MPJ. Joker seems to have a couple exceptional years left before he gets tired of the grind and goes off to the horse ranch.

Phoenix is trying to get out of salary. That's one of the main motivations here.

[SupremeGuy]

with Lauri, offensively he's basically a perfect fit. he's a heck of a shotmaker who doesnt need to dominate possessions to get his. in addition to his volume shooting he's one of the better closeout-beaters in the game and attacks the rim pretty aggressively. he's typically been a good enough rebounder too.

his issue is defensively where he's a non-factor. like, he's ok as a man defender. but as a team/help defender there really isnt much happening there.

he'd also be more expensive to acquire than Durant given his age. also gives you less flexiblity given his 4 year deal is about to kick in. but as far as being a complement to Wemby and Fox, its hard to think of anybody better than Lauri.

i think to land Lauri we'd have to send out #2, but could angle to get #5 back. send them a future swap as well. rest of the parts not too dissimilar from the KD stuff. or if we really insist on #2 not being part of the deal, we'd probably need to send Castle as part of the package alongside 14Pretty sure the trading the 2 pick is a nonstarter. Unless his name is Luka or Joker. lol

I think either Lauri or KD will fit.

Fucking hate this shit though. We're all getting hyped up for shit that probably isn't going to happen. lol

[RC_Drunkford]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GtG5FR5WIAAqTFQ?format=jpg&name=large

[CorrectCrusader]

Here is an interesting debate. Would you trade an extra spurs pick for Lauri or one less for KD?

Obviously KD. He's a better scorer & more consistent.

[Dejounte]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GtG5FR5WIAAqTFQ?format=jpg&name=large

Ashbomb?

[poopbox]

At this point just announce the damn trade.

[RC_Drunkford]

it's Amico, but I'ma post it anyway

1932515899036348652

[mystargtr34]

It’s happening gif.

[RC_Drunkford]

Someone having fun with photoshop online, lol

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GtDBlbBWQAAEv_S?format=jpg&name=large

that's not photoshop. That was part of our sales pitch in the 2016 offseason before he signed with the Warriors.

[Arguendo]

Assuming this is doable as a 2nd Apron team (think it would be), this makes a lot of sense for all parties. Could also maybe ship Branham or Wesley to Bkn for 38 if they see any reclamation hope for either (I do for Wes, don't have any hope for Branham).
Bkn only has 5 guys under contract + 4 team options + 1 2-way guy. May prefer to only have 2 rookies plus a 3rd yr vet/former first over 3 rooks.

That allow us to maybe get some combo of Penda/Thiero/Kalkbrenner/Raynaud/Broome/Yang or whoever falls to 36/38 or parley 36 & 38 into something like 28 to Bos who may prefer 2 2nds to a guaranteed first.

[Guru of Nothing]

Maybe if they iron the jersey this time the sales pitch will deliver.

[TD 21]

I'm okay with this even though I don't like losing out on a younger, talented player at #14 but it's really up to the FO and who they envision being more valuable at that spot when their pick comes up. Obviously, they won't make the deal if they feel a player is in their range that could be a diamond in the rough like a KL.

However, any thoughts of adding Nick Richards to the trade since he's on a 1 yr deal at 5mill (partially guaranteed) if indeed the trade moves forward? Would easily still work with any 2 of Vassell, KJ, Barnes and throwing in Wesley. He's serviceable as big down low w/some defensive ability.

The problem with Richards is he's a rotational rim runner. But if (when?) Sochan and Castle remain an untenable offensive combination and Sochan is relegated to the bench again, they need flexibility at backup C since he can't function next to that archetype.

His minutes need to mostly be tethered to either Wembanyama or Durant in non Castle minutes, when they can get away with playing without a C.

If the Nets are included in this hypothetical, Richards is probably more likely to end up being traded to them as backfill for a departed Claxton.

[Arguendo]

KD’s defensive catch all advanced metrics all took a pretty significant nose-dive last season, ranking him as a bottom third percentile defender. Maybe it was just a blip, maybe it was playing on a dysfunctional Suns team… or maybe it’s the age catching up to him
Real possibility, but his Blk% was still elite, 20th overall, 9th among guys with 2000+mins, Stl% has held for since 2018. My assumption was he was simply done with Phx after it broke they tried to trade him early Feb, done with 3 coaches in 3 yrs, done playing without a center 1/2 the time, done trying when Booker and Beal aren't and the team was going nowhere and he wanted out. That's scary too, but the Stock% tells me the ability was probably there when he felt like it.

[TD 21]

If it happens (and it seems more likely than not), how does it work . . .

Are Wembanyama and Durant really going to be okay with (probably) an inverted offense where they're mostly serving as spacers for guards who are inferior players?

Is Fox, likely (if Durant more or less maintains) relegated to third best player, going to be okay with whatever chance he had of accumulating more individual accolades likely kaput?

Is Castle going to be okay with being a utility guard?

Is Harper going to be okay with being no higher than fourth in offensive hierarchy, not starting or closing?

[exstatic]

The problem with Richards is he's a rotational rim runner. But if (when?) Sochan and Castle remain an untenable offensive combination and Sochan is relegated to the bench again, they need flexibility at backup C since he can't function next to that archetype.

His minutes need to mostly be tethered to either Wembanyama or Durant in non Castle minutes, when they can get away with playing without a C.

If the Nets are included in this hypothetical, Richards is probably more likely to end up being traded to them as backfill for a departed Claxton.

Richards is also allegedly a basketball idiot. Charlotte has major health issues with their starting C, but had no issues shipping his dumb ass out.

[TD 21]

Richards is also allegedly a basketball idiot. Charlotte has major health issues with their starting C, but had no issues shipping his dumb ass out.

I think the impetus was more so they're in asset accumulation mode, Williams was getting (for the moment) healthy around the time and Diabate was proving to be a find.

[Ice009]

Keldon, Branham, Sochan, Harrison Ingram, Castle, Minix all were volunteering for Food Bank.

No Vassell and some others… hmmm….

When does this Food Bank thing usually take place? Maybe Devin isn't in town or is busy with something else. Doesn't really mean anything, does it?

[Leetonidas]

If it happens (and it seems more likely than not), how does it work . . .

Are Wembanyama and Durant really going to be okay with (probably) an inverted offense where they're mostly serving as spacers for guards who are inferior players?

Is Fox, likely (if Durant more or less maintains) relegated to third best player, going to be okay with whatever chance he had of accumulating more individual accolades likely kaput?

Is Castle going to be okay with being a utility guard?

Is Harper going to be okay with being no higher than fourth in offensive hierarchy, not starting or closing?

Fox is more likely to win awards on a winning team than he is languishing on a bad team. NBA media rewards winners. If Spurs are winning games and he is playing like he normally does he is far more likely to make all star teams or the all NBA team

[TD 21]

Fox is more likely to win awards on a winning team than he is languishing on a bad team. NBA media rewards winners. If Spurs are winning games and he is playing like he normally does he is far more likely to make all star teams or the all NBA team

Not as a third wheel. It's difficult enough to get multiple players on those teams, especially in non glamor markets.

The big three (inexplicably) never simultaneously made an All-NBA or All-Star team.

[Arguendo]

Fox is way better than Lavine and Beal. He would make less money than Beal on his max extension and only 2 million more than Lavine, while being younger. I don't understand your concerns here. People seem to overrate Harper on this board. Harper has 0 pull up shooting ability, not even from midrange and it's not a sure thing that the Spurs will draft him.
My concerns are that people aren't appreciating how punitive the new cap is and I think max players need to be top-25 guys (honestly borderline perineal All-NBA but the league is full of idiots and trademill teams happy to pay for mediocre: see Lavine/Beal) to earn their pay if you want to be a contending team or unless you have a Brunson type that willingly takes less than market value. I don't think its reasonable to expect Fox to be a Top25 player in 2 yrs, I don't really expect him to be top Top25 again.

Fox is WAY better than Lavine and Beal, at what age? What exactly does Fox do exceptionally? He's definitely better defensively, today and at the same age, will he still be a better defender at 29 than Lavine? Is he so much better that that makes him WAY better?
Offensively? He is a far less efficient scorer than either and that's Fox's best attribute and its speed based and he's not getting faster and he has no positional versatility in a league where 6'2" starters are disappearing.

Lavine's career TS% is 58.7%, and he's been above 60% 4 of the last 5 yrs. Fox has 1 fucking season better than Lavine's avg, Fox has never been above 60%, only above 57% once. Fox is a mediocre assist man, 19th amongst starting PGs this season, 20th the yr before. What is Fox elite at? Getting to the line? Not the last 2 seasons, where Lavine has been better.

I think Fox is a better player, but go look at age 23-27 Fox vs Lavine. WAY better? Not at the same age. WAY better on a team that needs 3% shooting? No, Lavine is arguably a better fit if you want to play Castle and not to mention the guy that definitely would've been draft #1 last yr (Harper).
Throw in Beal if you want, but I was pretty clearly talking about albatross contracts though. But even Beal jacking up crazy shots without help in WAS was a more efficient scorer.
As offense players, Fox is the least efficient player, the worst at getting points/shot. There are other things that make him better, but those 3 get Max money for scoring and for nothing else. Scoring efficiently. Fox is easily the most speed reliant and EASILY the worst shooter of the 3 and the least efficient scorer at that age (and from ages 23-27).

The concern you missed is that, if you view Lavine and Beal as albatross contracts, you shouldn't pay guys for what they've done but what they will do. This is especially true if they are not your franchise guy. IMO Fox screams potential albatross contract. I think its at least as likely Lavine lives up to the last 2 yrs of his K than Fox does to his if he gets the full max extension. Beal was still moveable this season because of his shooting, but he exercised a No Trade Clause to block it and those no longer exist. I'm concerned a slowed down, 29/30y/o Fox will be unmovable in a 2nd Apron league and potentially blocking Castle and/or Harper. And if he slows down enough, he becomes borderline unplayable. That's not a far fetched concern, speed goes. Fox has averaged <63 games played over the past 6 seasons, that's not great. There are reasons to be concerned, he's not a superstar and he never was. He's a former 1xAS/1xAllNBA3, and unlikely to be close ever again. He helped take 1 team, as the 2nd best player, to a first round exit. Sure, great 7 games against GSW. He was the best player on that team? The league and stats disagreed, as evidence by Sabonis getting 27 compared to 2 MVP votes, and nearly a double WS, with better efficiency almost across the board.

I like Fox and I want him for 2 more yrs, but I think Fox's decline has begun. I think its more likely a declining Lavine is capable of living up to his contract (like being the 14th most efficient starter in the NBA like he was THIS SEASON) at 29/30+ compared to Fox.
Its not about Harper, its about overall context. Fox made a ton more sense before the trade as compared to today, he is way more risky now given that context IMO. To me, that risk is pretty close to unjustified if we get KD for cheap (Vassell + 14 + filler). There's real concern and its not unreasonable.

[RC_Drunkford]

So Orlando wants to trade Isaac, Cole Anthony and #16 for a shooter. Together they are making 28 million. Vassell makes 27 million.

Suns: Barnes, Anthony, Isaac, #14
Magic: Vassell
Spurs: KD, #16

[TD 21]

So Orlando wants to trade Isaac, Cole Anthony and #16 for a shooter. Together they are making 28 million. Vassell makes 27 million.

Suns: Barnes, Anthony, Isaac, #14
Magic: Vassell
Spurs: KD, #16

Even though they seem determined to have no defensive liabilities among core players, they need more of a creator who can shoot, which is why Simons has long been mentioned and Garland more recently.

[exstatic]

If it happens (and it seems more likely than not), how does it work . . .

Are Wembanyama and Durant really going to be okay with (probably) an inverted offense where they're mostly serving as spacers for guards who are inferior players?

Is Fox, likely (if Durant more or less maintains) relegated to third best player, going to be okay with whatever chance he had of accumulating more individual accolades likely kaput?

Is Castle going to be okay with being a utility guard?

Is Harper going to be okay with being no higher than fourth in offensive hierarchy, not starting or closing?

I guess it depends on their respective maturity levels. That is a powerful fucking team, and would be the epitome of “a rising tide lifts all boats”.

Spurs have been playing inverted since Tre took over as PG. Victor hasn’t seemed to mind, and in fact it gives him a chance to show his creative chops as both defenders usually abandon the pick setter/cutter for an easy over the top pass for a layup.

Imagine a pick and roll with KD as the ball handler, and Wemby setting the pick. He might pop for an open three, he might roll for a thunderous dunk. He might also pop as a decoy to create an easy lane to the basket for KD.

These are good problems to have,first world problems.

[PopTheGOAT]

Not as a third wheel. It's difficult enough to get multiple players on those teams, especially in non glamor markets.

The big three (inexplicably) never simultaneously made an All-NBA or All-Star team.
So what’s the question here? Do we appease player’s egos to allow for individual accolades over building a winning team? I choose the latter. We build the winning team and find out if the players are winners or if they’re selfish.

Fox is a number 3 guy on a championship team. That’s the level of player he is. I’ve seen no reason to believe he wouldn’t be fine with that if they’re contenders, but if he isn’t then he can go. It’s that simple.

[Dejounte]

So Orlando wants to trade Isaac, Cole Anthony and #16 for a shooter. Together they are making 28 million. Vassell makes 27 million.

Suns: Barnes, Anthony, Isaac, #14
Magic: Vassell
Spurs: KD, #16

So this is how I get my guy Powell (or Sorber) at the same time as KD. Wonderful.

[Uriel]

As others have already pointed out, an ancillary benefit of having KD on board is that he will be able to mentor Wembanyama.

[TD 21]

I guess it depends on their respective maturity levels. That is a powerful fucking team, and would be the epitome of “a rising tide lifts all boats”.

Spurs have been playing inverted since Tre took over as PG. Victor hasn’t seemed to mind, and in fact it gives him a chance to show his creative chops as both defenders usually abandon the pick setter/cutter for an easy over the top pass for a layup.

Imagine a pick and roll with KD as the ball handler, and Wemby setting the pick. He might pop for an open three, he might roll for a thunderous dunk. He might also pop as a decoy to create an easy lane to the basket for KD.

These are good problems to have,first world problems.


So what’s the question here? Do we appease player’s egos to allow for individual accolades over building a winning team? I choose the latter. We build the

winning team and find out if the players are winners or if they’re selfish.

Fox is a number 3 guy on a championship team. That’s the level of player he is. I’ve seen no reason to believe he wouldn’t be fine with that if they’re contenders, but if he isn’t then he can go. It’s that simple.

All easier said than done with mostly young players and an old one who has shown no willingness (and in fairness, couldn't afford to) to take a backseat as he's aged.

Everyone will say the right things at the start, but the reality is most players only want to win on their agenda.

In Fox's case, he might be closer to third best player on a championship team in caliber, but he probably doesn't see it that way and his game isn't all that well suited for it.

[Dex]

As others have already pointed out, an ancillary benefit of having KD on board is that he will be able to mentor Wembanyama.

It's also apparent Wemby looks up to Durant, so whether we get him or not...knowing the Spurs tried should go a long way to keeping him happy and THAT is the important thing.

I've always wanted to see him as a Spur...just don't sell the farm for him.

[objective]

Spurs should offer to include Juanito Miho Nunez in the deal, that will lock it up

[mo7888]

So Orlando wants to trade Isaac, Cole Anthony and #16 for a shooter. Together they are making 28 million. Vassell makes 27 million.

Suns: Barnes, Anthony, Isaac, #14
Magic: Vassell
Spurs: KD, #16

I can't tell you how happy I'd be with that...

[vy65]

So Orlando wants to trade Isaac, Cole Anthony and #16 for a shooter. Together they are making 28 million. Vassell makes 27 million.

Suns: Barnes, Anthony, Isaac, #14
Magic: Vassell
Spurs: KD, #16

Don’t think ORL does this

[baseline bum]

Pretty sure the trading the 2 pick is a nonstarter. Unless his name is Luka or Joker. lol

I think either Lauri or KD will fit.

Fucking hate this shit though. We're all getting hyped up for shit that probably isn't going to happen. lol

If Gambo is saying KD wants to be here I'd take that pretty seriously; he's pretty plugged in with the Suns and says his source is someone in Durant's inner circle.

[Dex]

If Gambo is saying KD wants to be here I'd take that pretty seriously; he's pretty plugged in with the Suns and says his source is someone in Durant's inner circle.

Even if the report is true and "KD wants to be here"...that doesn't mean the Suns have to play ball or take a lesser deal to keep him happy.

Or this could just all be the usual offseason smokescreen bullshit we see every year.

[talkspurs]

I am one of the few against getting KD but I also think we overpaid for Fox. As has been mentioned earlier Fox puts up good number on teams that are not great. he is getting older and he has played with good bigs and good guards. When he played with good Guards his numbers were not good. I would think he is less likely to take a discount then someone that has been here awhile. I also like the built not bought mantra that we use to use but I am guessing that only because it fit at the time.

[100%duncan]

Would be a nice gift as Wemby ends his 10 day retreat and then he opens his phone to notifications of his idol to the spurs tbh.

[100%duncan]

Even if the report is true and "KD wants to be here"...that doesn't mean the Suns have to play ball or take a lesser deal to keep him happy.

Or this could just all be the usual offseason smokescreen bullshit we see every year.

That's franchise suicide either way for them.

1. You fuck over a superstar
2. You fuck over your franchise, no one is going to offer more than the Spurs if KD makes it clear that he won't resign with that team. If they do, let them I guess.

[Dejounte]

Even if the report is true and "KD wants to be here"...that doesn't mean the Suns have to play ball or take a lesser deal to keep him happy.

Or this could just all be the usual offseason smokescreen bullshit we see every year.

Fox rumors were also the usual trade deadline smokescreen bullshit according to people here.

[dubross]

Gambo is saying Vassell and Sochan are both part of the deal

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

Fwiw imo a "source close to KD" is most likely KD himself... as a rule

[exstatic]

Even if the report is true and "KD wants to be here"...that doesn't mean the Suns have to play ball or take a lesser deal to keep him happy.

Or this could just all be the usual offseason smokescreen bullshit we see every year.

They actually do, or risk losing future FAs. They Fd up by shopping him at the deadline without his knowledge. If they don’t trade him, they lose him for nothing, and generate a ton of bad will.

[scottspurs]

Gambo being a mouthpiece for the Suns I don’t think this is all a smokescreen but him putting it out there could be a strategy to drive the price back up for other teams. I don’t think he would know who or what would be in the deal though so any players besides Durant in the trade is pure speculation on his behalf.

[exstatic]

Gambo being a mouthpiece for the Suns I don’t think this is all a smokescreen but him putting it out there could be a strategy to drive the price back up for other teams. I don’t think he would know who or what would be in the deal though so any players besides Durant in the trade is pure speculation on his behalf.

It doesn’t matter. How do people still think this is a competition? No one is upping their offer for a 37 YO player who won’t re-sign.. If he’s truly picked San Antonio, everyone else will turn away to other business.

[scott]

Gambo is saying Vassell and Sochan are both part of the deal

Prayingdog.gif

I don’t even hate Sochan… I’m just tired of having to see his stans posting summer workout vids

[Seventyniner]

Fwiw imo a "source close to KD" is most likely KD himself... as a rule

Keep your friends close and your burners closer.

[Degoat]

I’d be a little bummed losing Sochan, I think he still has a promising future

[timtonymanu]

Prayingdog.gif

I don’t even hate Sochan… I’m just tired of having to see his stans posting summer workout vids

I would have a laugh on the Spurs reddit if they traded him. "KD at home" :lol.

I would also rather keep Barnes who can actually shoot 3's.

[scott]

I would have a laugh on the Spurs reddit if they traded him. I would also rather keep Barnes who can actually shoot 3's.

I’d mostly be crofl’ing at the amateur Spurs YouTube clowns who insist Sochan is untouchable and anyone who disagrees “doesn’t know ball”

[Dejounte]

Gambo is saying Vassell and Sochan are both part of the deal
Not seeing this anywhere

[CGD]

Gambo is saying Vassell and Sochan are both part of the deal

Havent seen this version of the trade. Keldon, Sochan, Barnes, 14 is the one i see the most, followed by Dev, Barnes, 14.

[vy65]

Not seeing this anywhere

1932597717294837802

[ace3g]

https://x.com/d6ook/status/1932597717294837802

https://x.com/esidery/status/1932615297430614134

[SpursFan86]

KD trade is less of a slam dunk if Sochan is involved. Call me crazy but I still believe in Sochan becoming a true positive impact player, and I like his fit alongside KD in certain lineups.

Not saying it’s a dealbreaker, just makes it not as much of a home run as something like Vassell/Keldon/14.

[CGD]

1932597717294837802

I wonder if the Spurs are saying its #14 OR Sochan. You pick Suns. The Suns famously invest very little in their draft prep, so they may actually prefer the player.

[Robz4000]

KD trade is less of a slam dunk if Sochan is involved. Call me crazy but I still believe in Sochan becoming a true positive impact player, and I like his fit alongside KD in certain lineups.

Not saying it’s a dealbreaker, just not as much of a home run as something like Vassell/Keldon/14.

Agreed tbh, unless it's just those two and #14. If it's Vassell/Sochan/Barnes/14 I say no.

[CGD]

Seems too early to give up on Sochan, but his extension is also a tricky one.

[Degoat]

Sooo I’m assuming we would keep KJ and Barnes if Sochan is involved

[CGD]

Agreed tbh, unless it's just those two and #14. If it's Vassell/Sochan/Barnes/14 I say no.

Really? Barnes's expiring contract is where you draw the line?

[vy65]

I watched that British podcast with Sochan in the other thread. Say what you will about the player, but he’s a super likeable guy. Yes, I know, I am giving in to the power of friendship, but I’d much rather see Keldon go than him.

[exstatic]

Sooo I’m assuming we would keep KJ and Barnes if Sochan is involved

Vassell/Sochan isn’t enough salary. Someone else would have to go along.

[Robz4000]

Really? Barnes's expiring contract is where you draw the line?

I prefer to keep Barnes and resign him tbh. Spurs need all the shooting they can get and he can play in just about any lineup. That being said, if the deal ends up something like Vassell/Barnes/14 I'm fine with it.

[Degoat]

Vassell/Sochan isn’t enough salary. Someone else would have to go along.

Not entirely sure the numbers but the suns also can’t take in too much money because there at the 2nd apron

[objective]

Not a Sochan fan but wouldn't want to see him go in this deal along with 14

They still need frontcourt depth and Sochan can do an easy 30 minutes across pf and sf, no matter as a starter or bench player.

[Knoxxx]

I saw one 3 team deal that has us sending out 14, Vassell, Barnes for Durant and 13 that involved ATL. These deals seem crazy but if we actually parlayed the free acquisition of Barnes into something like that it seems unreal and a slam dunk for us of course.

There is no reason we couldn’t send out Sochan instead of Barnes. We could still bring in a young frontcourt player via the draft, for example, under above scenario.

All in all if KD wants to be here and Phoenix stands to get nothing after his contract is up, we can’t rule out something crazy good happening for us in the process. The idea we could get him straight up mainly for Vassell + another player, whether it be Barnes, Sochan, or KJ seems too good to be true. But in Phoenix’s case, desperate times call for desperate measures and we just might be the primary beneficiary.

[exstatic]

Not entirely sure the numbers but the suns also can’t take in too much money because there at the 2nd apron

We can’t send out less than a certain amount to take on KDs contract without involving a 3rd team to just eat one of our contracts.

[exstatic]

I saw one 3 team deal that has us sending out 14, Vassell, Barnes for Durant and 13 that involved ATL. These deals seem crazy but if we actually parlayed the free acquisition of Barnes into something like that it seems unreal and a slam dunk for us of course.

There is no reason we couldn’t send out Sochan instead of Barnes. We could still bring in a young frontcourt player via the draft, for example, under above scenario.

All in all if KD wants to be here and Phoenix stands to get nothing after his contract is up, we can’t rule out something crazy good happening for us in the process. The idea we could get him straight up mainly for Vassell + another player, whether it be Barnes, Sochan, or KJ seems too good to be true. But in Phoenix’s case, desperate times call for desperate measures and we just might be the primary beneficiary.

Monetarily, there is a big fucking difference.

[100%duncan]

If they want Sochan then they don't get 14.

Vassell, Sochan, Barnes/Keldon. I mean you get too thin on the wings here.

[spursparker9]

Vassell can definitely go.

But Sochan or 14....I pick 14 to keep.

[SpursBills]

Wonder if there's a way to work out a multi-trade with Charlotte to get Miles Bridges to the Suns to make the package more appealing to Ishbia since he's got such a hard on for Michigan State alum.

[rascal]

I wouldn't trade 14 straightup for Durant.

14 should give the Spurs a solid starter on the same timeline with the core. There are going to be a few solid players there at 14. Develop the young guys and don't bring in a high priced veteran who has a short window.

Paying big money for a player with diminishing skills over the next three years isn't the way to go.

Spurs are going to win a championship without Durant with what they are building. In a couple of years they will be right there rising to the top even without Durant.

Look at the big jumps OK City and Houston made over the last couple of years and the Spurs will be deeper with young talent than both those teams.

[Light]

Phoenix saw Sochan's workout video and are now demanding he be included in the trade, tbh

[rascal]

I wouldn't trade 14 straightup for Durant.

14 should give the Spurs a solid starter on the same timeline with the core. There are going to be a few solid players there at 14. Develop the young guys and don't bring in a high priced veteran who has a short window.

Paying big money for a player with diminishing skills over the next three years isn't the way to go.

Spurs are going to win a championship without Durant with what they are building. In a couple of years they will be right there rising to the top even without Durant.

Look at the big jumps OK City and Houston made over the last couple of years and the Spurs will be deeper with young talent than both those teams.

[Chillen]

It's Durant. I am fine with giving up Vassell, Barnes, Sochan and #14. Durant will attract free agents.

[baseline bum]

Even if the report is true and "KD wants to be here"...that doesn't mean the Suns have to play ball or take a lesser deal to keep him happy.

Or this could just all be the usual offseason smokescreen bullshit we see every year.

Feels like that's 80% of the way to the trade when Durant can just threaten to not extend like he did to kill the Suns sending him back to Golden State at the deadline.

[ismael-robert]

Till his next Achilles rupture, dont want

[Bruno]

Spurs backcourt of Fox/Castle/Harper won't bring a lot of spacing. Adding a non shooting forward like Sochan to the rotation might not be possible for Spurs. Sochan is a true dilemma to me. He has some qualities but he might end up being basically unplayable because of his lack of shooting.

I'm not a fan of Spurs trading for Durant but a trade like Vassell + Sochan + Branham + Wesley + #14 + second round picks for Durant is fine by me. What I really don't want Spurs trading for him is future first round pick(s). Hurting Spurs future for a 37 years old player would be just plain stupid.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

I like Sochan but if he has to be the included in the deal then fine. I’d prefer sending Keldon over Barnes but again it can’t be a deal breaker, neither is 14. It’s KD, just get it done.

The only issue about trading 3 rotation players for 1 who is 37 years old is that it’ll leave the bench very thin, so the Spurs will have to do a good job o the margins as well.

[Robz4000]

Spurs backcourt of Fox/Castle/Harper won't bring a lot of spacing. Adding a non shooting forward like Sochan to the rotation might not be possible for Spurs. Sochan is a true dilemma to me. He has some qualities but he might end up being basically unplayable because of his lack of shooting.

I'm not a fan of Spurs trading for Durant but a trade like Vassell + Sochan + Branham + Wesley + #14 + second round picks for Durant is fine by me. What I really don't want Spurs trading for him is future first round pick(s). Hurting Spurs future for a 37 years old player would be just plain stupid.

Pretty much how I feel, but if Sochan is willing to extend at something like 3/$36m I'd be willing to take the chance, especially if the Spurs can add more shooting with the MLE. If none of Fox/Castle/Harper become good shooters they'll have to trade one of them in a few seasons regardless.

[exstatic]

Spurs backcourt of Fox/Castle/Harper won't bring a lot of spacing. Adding a non shooting forward like Sochan to the rotation might not be possible for Spurs. Sochan is a true dilemma to me. He has some qualities but he might end up being basically unplayable because of his lack of shooting.

I'm not a fan of Spurs trading for Durant but a trade like Vassell + Sochan + Branham + Wesley + #14 + second round picks for Durant is fine by me. What I really don't want Spurs trading for him is future first round pick(s). Hurting Spurs future for a 37 years old player would be just plain stupid.

OK, with Durant now on boatprd, you now have 7 players under contract, and 2 exceptions to use, bringing you to 9 players. Do you really want to sign 6 minimum contract guys? They’d have to be guards and wings, replacing the four you just traded. That’s a lot for a team hoping to go places.

[exstatic]

Pretty much how I feel, but if Sochan is willing to extend at something like 3/$36m I'd be willing to take the chance, especially if the Spurs can add more shooting with the MLE. If none of Fox/Castle/Harper become good shooters they'll have to trade one of them in a few seasons regardless.

He’d be stupid to sign an extension for less than the MLE.

[Robz4000]

He’d be stupid to sign an extension for less than the MLE.

Spurs could also just let him test the market next offseason tbh. Don't see him getting more than the MLE unless he improves his shot.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

OK, with Durant now on boatprd, you now have 7 players under contract, and 2 exceptions to use, bringing you to 9 players. Do you really want to sign 6 minimum contract guys? They’d have to be guards and wings, replacing the four you just traded. That’s a lot for a team hoping to go places.

It’s doable, they don’t need 15 rotation players.

Bring back Chris Paul with the non bird rights, especially if Castle plays some 3. Split the MLE for 2 players, say Lopez and Kennard. Sign someone with the BAE. Bring back Mamu, maybe give Minix a non guaranteed deal as well. They have to nail some of these moves to have a functional rotation but it’s an easier job than to get the top level dudes.

[Robz4000]

Spurs can also use some of their other seconds to trade into the end of the first round to draft another player tbh. Plenty of interesting players will be available.

[RC_Drunkford]

Even if the report is true and "KD wants to be here"...that doesn't mean the Suns have to play ball or take a lesser deal to keep him happy.

Or this could just all be the usual offseason smokescreen bullshit we see every year.

they are working together like it or not. KD's agent Rich Kleinman has the second most NBA players under contract. You fuck him over, you'll have a huge problem signing anybody in the future. KD is not tanking his trade value publicly, so Phoenix gets some value back and the Suns send him to the Spurs. And the Spurs are trying to find a 3rd team so the Suns get a better return and the Spurs have to give up less.


Don’t think ORL does this

me neither :lol

But it's definitely gonna be a 3-team deal and I think we're trying to get a mid first back


I am one of the few against getting KD but I also think we overpaid for Fox. As has been mentioned earlier Fox puts up good number on teams that are not great. he is getting older and he has played with good bigs and good guards. When he played with good Guards his numbers were not good. I would think he is less likely to take a discount then someone that has been here awhile. I also like the built not bought mantra that we use to use but I am guessing that only because it fit at the time.

Built not bought doesn't work when your player development staff sucks and all the coaches from back then work for other teams now


Gambo is saying Vassell and Sochan are both part of the deal

told y'all the player the Spurs are trying to keep is Keldon. I'd rather keep Sochan, but that's what it is. Also Vassell + Sochan doesn't work, not even if you add Branham. Barnes or Keldon would still have to be in the deal.

[Bruno]

OK, with Durant now on boatprd, you now have 7 players under contract, and 2 exceptions to use, bringing you to 9 players. Do you really want to sign 6 minimum contract guys? They’d have to be guards and wings, replacing the four you just traded. That’s a lot for a team hoping to go places.

Branham and Wesley aren't better than the average min salary player. Spurs don't really lose depth by trading them away because they can easily be replaced.

[RC_Drunkford]

Not entirely sure the numbers but the suns also can’t take in too much money because there at the 2nd apron

Vassell, Sochan + 1 of Barnes/Keldon works and is still less salary than KD demands. Excluding Sochan would be smarter for both sides though, because Phoenix would shave off 11 million from their cap + what it costs in luxury tax. If Sochan is in the deal, it's only 4 million.


I wouldn't trade 14 straightup for Durant.

14 should give the Spurs a solid starter on the same timeline with the core. There are going to be a few solid players there at 14. Develop the young guys and don't bring in a high priced veteran who has a short window.

Paying big money for a player with diminishing skills over the next three years isn't the way to go.

Spurs are going to win a championship without Durant with what they are building. In a couple of years they will be right there rising to the top even without Durant.

Look at the big jumps OK City and Houston made over the last couple of years and the Spurs will be deeper with young talent than both those teams.

Newsflash: we aren't building anything here. We are in win-now mode and the majority of our young guys will be gone. It's gon be Wemby, Fox, Castle and 2 or 3 (max) of Vassell/Sochan/Keldon/Wesley/Branham/Champagnie. My money is on Wesley and Champagnie staying cause they are cheap. Out of the other 4 the Spurs want to keep Keldon the most, but even he might be out the door for the right deal.

The best you can hope for is that we draft 2 new guys and get back young players in the other trades we will make once we got KD.

[exstatic]

Branham and Wesley aren't better than the average min salary player. Spurs don't really lose depth by trading them away because they can easily be replaced.

They actually are, because they know the system and the players.

[RC_Drunkford]

They actually are, because they know the system and the players.

the Spurs don't have a system and the vast majority of our players will be gone this offseason

[Dejounte]

Fox/ Wesley
Castle/ Powell
Durant/ Julian
Barnes/ Vet FA/ Ingram
Wemby/ Bassey/ Minix

[Dejounte]

Oops, forgot we had the #2 pick

Fox/ Wesley
Harper/ Powell
Castle/ Julian
Durant/ Keldon/ Ingram
Wemby/ Bassey/ Minix

[Raven]

Only an idiot would want to trade for Durant at this stage of his career.

[RC_Drunkford]

Fox/ Wesley
Castle/ Powell
Durant/ Julian
Barnes/ Vet FA/ Ingram
Wemby/ Bassey/ Minix

rather something like

Fox/ Wesley
Castle/ Powell
Durant/ Julian
John Collins/ LaRavia
Wemby/ Maluach

or

Fox/Wesley
Castle/Julian
Durant/Keldon
LaRavia/Essengue
Wemby/Okongwu

or

Fox/Traore
Castle/Wesley
Durant/Julian
Jalen Johnson/LaRavia
Wemby/Maluach

or

Fox/Wesley
Castle/Clarkson
Bailey/Julian
Durant/LaRavia
Wemby/Kessler

and so on. Plenty of combinations.

[RC_Drunkford]

Only an idiot would not want to trade for Durant at this stage of his career.

FIFY

https://media1.tenor.com/m/LFeZJ6KRIkYAAAAC/pop-thumbs-up.gif

[Robz4000]

Fox/Harper
Castle/Keldon
Barnes/Champ
KD/Sochan/Mamu
Wemby/(Adams/Lopez/Capela/etc)

imo.

[rankingtear]

Only an idiot would want to trade for Durant at this stage of his career.

I am no idiot, i am smartest guy here.

[LeBowen]

No need to make 10 man rotation lists since we'll most likely have a 3 man guard rotation.

Guards:
Fox
Castle
Harper

Wings:
KD
Keldon
Champ
?

Bigs:
Wemby
?

[cutewizard]

Man the spacing out there for Fox, Harper, Castle with Wemby and Durant out on the 3pt line is nice!!


,,.................

Agree

I wonder who is the best fifth person to complement this line up

[RC_Drunkford]

My concerns are that people aren't appreciating how punitive the new cap is and I think max players need to be top-25 guys (honestly borderline perineal All-NBA but the league is full of idiots and trademill teams happy to pay for mediocre: see Lavine/Beal) to earn their pay if you want to be a contending team or unless you have a Brunson type that willingly takes less than market value. I don't think its reasonable to expect Fox to be a Top25 player in 2 yrs, I don't really expect him to be top Top25 again.

Fox is WAY better than Lavine and Beal, at what age? What exactly does Fox do exceptionally? He's definitely better defensively, today and at the same age, will he still be a better defender at 29 than Lavine? Is he so much better that that makes him WAY better?
Offensively? He is a far less efficient scorer than either and that's Fox's best attribute and its speed based and he's not getting faster and he has no positional versatility in a league where 6'2" starters are disappearing.

Lavine's career TS% is 58.7%, and he's been above 60% 4 of the last 5 yrs. Fox has 1 fucking season better than Lavine's avg, Fox has never been above 60%, only above 57% once. Fox is a mediocre assist man, 19th amongst starting PGs this season, 20th the yr before. What is Fox elite at? Getting to the line? Not the last 2 seasons, where Lavine has been better.

I think Fox is a better player, but go look at age 23-27 Fox vs Lavine. WAY better? Not at the same age. WAY better on a team that needs 3% shooting? No, Lavine is arguably a better fit if you want to play Castle and not to mention the guy that definitely would've been draft #1 last yr (Harper).
Throw in Beal if you want, but I was pretty clearly talking about albatross contracts though. But even Beal jacking up crazy shots without help in WAS was a more efficient scorer.
As offense players, Fox is the least efficient player, the worst at getting points/shot. There are other things that make him better, but those 3 get Max money for scoring and for nothing else. Scoring efficiently. Fox is easily the most speed reliant and EASILY the worst shooter of the 3 and the least efficient scorer at that age (and from ages 23-27).

The concern you missed is that, if you view Lavine and Beal as albatross contracts, you shouldn't pay guys for what they've done but what they will do. This is especially true if they are not your franchise guy. IMO Fox screams potential albatross contract. I think its at least as likely Lavine lives up to the last 2 yrs of his K than Fox does to his if he gets the full max extension. Beal was still moveable this season because of his shooting, but he exercised a No Trade Clause to block it and those no longer exist. I'm concerned a slowed down, 29/30y/o Fox will be unmovable in a 2nd Apron league and potentially blocking Castle and/or Harper. And if he slows down enough, he becomes borderline unplayable. That's not a far fetched concern, speed goes. Fox has averaged <63 games played over the past 6 seasons, that's not great. There are reasons to be concerned, he's not a superstar and he never was. He's a former 1xAS/1xAllNBA3, and unlikely to be close ever again. He helped take 1 team, as the 2nd best player, to a first round exit. Sure, great 7 games against GSW. He was the best player on that team? The league and stats disagreed, as evidence by Sabonis getting 27 compared to 2 MVP votes, and nearly a double WS, with better efficiency almost across the board.

I like Fox and I want him for 2 more yrs, but I think Fox's decline has begun. I think its more likely a declining Lavine is capable of living up to his contract (like being the 14th most efficient starter in the NBA like he was THIS SEASON) at 29/30+ compared to Fox.
Its not about Harper, its about overall context. Fox made a ton more sense before the trade as compared to today, he is way more risky now given that context IMO. To me, that risk is pretty close to unjustified if we get KD for cheap (Vassell + 14 + filler). There's real concern and its not unreasonable.


Let me break this down to you:

First of all Fox is worlds better than Beal. Beal signed a 5-year supermax extention at the age of 29. That's 35% of the cap. The cap percentages are as follows: 35% / 34.36% / 35.71% / 34.7% / 33.58%

Zach LaVine and Fox might be on a similar level on offense, but Fox is better defensively and the main problem with LaVine is: health. That's the main reason why his contract is viewed as bad value.

LaVine signed a 5 year max extension at age 27. The cap percentages are as follows: 30% / 29.45% / 31.68% / 30.71% / 28.79%

Fox will sign at best for 4 years and the 30% max at age 27. The main difference is, that during Fox' tenure the cap will go up by 10% per year. So his cap percentages would be: 30% / 29.45% / 28.91% / 28.39%

this is lower than LaVine. The 2.32% difference in year 4 for example equals to 5.5 million. Maybe not that much of a difference, but it's a good amount paired with not having a fifth year and while Wemby and Castle are on rookie deals for 2 and 3 years. So it's perfectly fine. That's without him giving us a slight discount, which could actually happen if they tell him that the plan is to bring in KD, etc.

[rankingtear]

Fox-Castle-Murray-Durant-Wemby this is the most genius lineup out there all they have to do is don't overrate Scoot 2.0.

[scottspurs]

It doesn’t matter. How do people still think this is a competition? No one is upping their offer for a 37 YO player who won’t re-sign.. If he’s truly picked San Antonio, everyone else will turn away to other business.
I agree the market won’t be huge but that won’t stop the Suns from trying.

[RC_Drunkford]

1932507161705206035

[T Park]

They actually are, because they know the system and the players.

Big whoop. They stink. Adios.

[T Park]

I agree the market won’t be huge but that won’t stop the Suns from trying.


They can try as hard as Sacramento did…

[T Park]

It’s doable, they don’t need 15 rotation players.

Bring back Chris Paul with the non bird rights, especially if Castle plays some 3. Split the MLE for 2 players, say Lopez and Kennard. Sign someone with the BAE. Bring back Mamu, maybe give Minix a non guaranteed deal as well. They have to nail some of these moves to have a functional rotation but it’s an easier job than to get the top level dudes.

Chris Paul is 100% gone to Dallas