The Trayvon Martin Case

[elbamba]

The evidence shows nothing clearly. There are conflicting reports as a matter of fact thus reasonable doubt.



We seem to agree. If there is any reasonable doubt, there should not be a conviction.

[Creepn]

[ QUOTE=elbamba;6740866]The testimony and evidence clesrly shows thst this is not what happened. Evidence that the prosecution saw before they charged second degree murder.

I am not a fan of lesser included offences. Not sure if that is how they bring in manslaughter charges, but it seems like two bites st the apple. They should charge manslaughter if they are going to ultimately try to show manslaughter.[/QUOTE]

Doesn't matter what she did before the testimony if she confessed everything during the testimony. She was brutally honest about everything, about her feelings, her actions, and even the "cracker" comment. I believe she's the most honest out of all the witnesses. I also believe her when she said Martin yelled "get off get off" and it corroborates with the accounts of other witnesses that saw Zimmerman on top.

[Wild Cobra]

The expression "get off it" if true, still doesn't mean anything.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

We seem to agree. If there is any reasonable doubt, there should not be a conviction.

In my view, there is reasonable doubt for murder 2 which requires proof of a frame of mind. There is more than enough evidence to say that Zimmerman was criminally negligent though.

As many times I have heard the board conservatives claim "I know hes a stupid asshole but he's no murderer' tells me they know this too. If you are reckless and stupid and someone dies because of it then that soiunds like manslaughter to me.

When it comes down to it though it doesn't matter what we think though. The jury will decide and I for some reason doubt that the white males of the Spurstalk Zimmerman Defense Corps can really identify with that bunch.

[elbamba]

[ QUOTE=elbamba;6740866]The testimony and evidence clesrly shows thst this is not what happened. Evidence that the prosecution saw before they charged second degree murder.

I am not a fan of lesser included offences. Not sure if that is how they bring in manslaughter charges, but it seems like two bites st the apple. They should charge manslaughter if they are going to ultimately try to show manslaughter.

Doesn't matter what she did before the testimony if she confessed everything during the testimony. She was brutally honest about everything, about her feelings, her actions, and even the "cracker" comment. I believe she's the most honest out of all the witnesses. I also believe her when she said Martin yelled "get off get off" and it corroborates with the accounts of other witnesses that saw Zimmerman on top.[/QUOTE]

Or she continued to lie and her testimony was nothing more than telling the jury what she thought they wanted to hear. She has a history of doing that. FYI, depositions are official court proceedings so lying under oath makes her a "fat liar" just like Zimmerman. Isn't that what you keep calling him. Why the double standard with truth telling?

[elbamba]

When it comes down to it though it doesn't matter what we think though. The jury will decide and I for some reason doubt that the white males of the Spurstalk Zimmerman Defense Corps can really identify with that bunch.

I don't know that anyone has made the argument that the jury is going to look at Spurstalk posts to determine whether to Convict George Zimmerman. Why do you assume that everyone that believes Zimmerman should not be convicted is white?

[Capt Bringdown]

Dickhead Zimmerman disobeyed police instructions, stalked and murdered a young black man in cold blood.

[Creepn]

Or she continued to lie and her testimony was nothing more than telling the jury what she thought they wanted to hear. She has a history of doing that. FYI, depositions are official court proceedings so lying under oath makes her a "fat liar" just like Zimmerman. Isn't that what you keep calling him. Why the double standard with truth telling?
Oh you think a white jury wants to hear that someone called someone a "cracker"? I also asked you previous pages to tell me what she lied about but you never delivered. Maybe I simply missed something.

IF she did lie, I could ask you exactly the same thing about the double standard accept there's a difference. She didn't kill anybody and she came clean in her testimony. You choose you take the word over a murderer who constantly changes his story over a teen who just lied about her age to avoid publicity (a totally seperate affair). If that's the stance you want to take, more power to you.

[DPG21920]

There's a case similar to this, don't know the name sorry, but one guy claimed he killed I'm self defense but because of his numerous inconsistencies like Zimmerman, the jury found him guilty of murder. They're wasn't a lot of hard evidence in that case a well.

That is a good thing, right? If he's guilty, if the evidence is even remotely close enough to convict, won't he be convicted?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I don't know that anyone has made the argument that the jury is going to look at Spurstalk posts to determine whether to Convict George Zimmerman. Why do you assume that everyone that believes Zimmerman should not be convicted is white?

I never said they all were. If one of these trolls is DMC then he is not white but I know that m<s and CC are.

As for your strawman, I never said that the jury would do this or that. I really do not recall them making comments after jury selection about the jury one way or another. That actually speaks to the point I am trying to make. They talk in absolutes with comments like 'Zimmerman will be acquitted' without much thought or articulation. That is the point I am making.

[Creepn]

That is a good thing, right? If he's guilty, if the evidence is even remotely close enough to convict, won't he be convicted?

Well it certainly gives hope for a possible conviction but will he is a different matter.

[Wild Cobra]

Dickhead Zimmerman disobeyed police instructions, stalked and murdered a young black man in cold blood.
Wow...

That line has been proven wrong on several occasions. You must be monumentally stupid to continue using it.

[bobcatfan4life]

Zimmerman is a racist, that's all that needs to be said

[Wild Cobra]

Zimmerman is a racist, that's all that needs to be said
I see we have a new butthurt troll.

Welcome.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

He wasn't given instructions but its clear that it was recommended to him that he not do so.

We know that he followed Martin and Martin didn't yank him out of the car.

WC is just as baseless and lacking articulation as the rest of the Zimmerman defense corps.

[bobcatfan4life]

I see we have a new butthurt troll.

Welcome.
Just saying the truth

[Wild Cobra]

Just saying the truth
I think you are just a a racist against those with Hispanic heritage. The news has had several accounts of him being anything but racist, and friends with some blacks.

[elbamba]

Oh you think a white jury wants to hear that someone called someone a "cracker"? I also asked you previous pages to tell me what she lied about but you never delivered. Maybe I simply missed something.

IF she did lie, I could ask you exactly the same thing about the double standard accept there's a difference. She didn't kill anybody and she came clean in her testimony. You choose you take the word over a murderer who constantly changes his story over a teen who just lied about her age to avoid publicity (a totally seperate affair). If that's the stance you want to take, more power to you.

All you need is Google if you really care to find out her lies.

http://dailycaller.com/2013/03/06/prosecutors-admit-trayvon-martins-girlfriend-lied-under-oath/

Her testimony changing from the deposition from the last thing she could hear was someone hitting someone else to now hearing grass and Martin saying "get off, get off". You can go back and listen to the transcript, its all there. These are just two examples. I am sure that you don't believe her anymore. Once someone lies in court they lose all credibility.

There is no double standard with me. Zimmerman has not taken the witness stand to testify. When he does, his honesty will come into play. Right now, the jury is to take what has been presented before it, not what was said at a hearing that will not come into evidence unless Zimmerman takes the stand.

[Big Empty]

Zimmerman is a racist, that's all that needs to be said
Go Cats Go!

[elbamba]

I never said they all were. If one of these trolls is DMC then he is not white but I know that m<s and CC are.

As for your strawman, I never said that the jury would do this or that. I really do not recall them making comments after jury selection about the jury one way or another. That actually speaks to the point I am trying to make. They talk in absolutes with comments like 'Zimmerman will be acquitted' without much thought or articulation. That is the point I am making.

Not really a strawman. I could have just thanked you for pointing out the obvious. Why do you care if posters have drawn premeditated conclusions on the outcome of this case?

[Trill Clinton]

jesus christ, how many of cowardman's family and friends have wrote a book about this case???

[Trill Clinton]

Just saying the truth


don't mind him. welcome to the thread, doggie.

[AntiChrist]

The GZ lynch mob is overly emo about this case. Nice work, MSM.

[AntiChrist]

The best evidence in this case is GZ's face/head and TM's knuckles. All the other stuff are witness accounts from a dark, rainy night and people trying to say who is screaming on a 9/11 call.

Based on GZ's face/head and TM's knuckles, it doesn't make much sense that it is TM screaming (unless you are totally being dishonest with yourself).

[JudynTX]

So called friends on the stand.

[AntiChrist]

http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-convicted-murder-manslaughter/story?id=19598422#.UdnkHz7DVoY




ANALYSIS by DAN ABRAMS July 7, 2013

I drew a legal conclusion on "Good Morning America" Saturday that would have surprised the Dan Abrams who covered the George Zimmerman case leading up to, and shortly after, his arrest.
Now that the prosecution's case against Zimmerman is in, as a legal matter, I just don't see how a jury convicts him of second degree murder or even manslaughter in the shooting death of Trayvon Martin. (http://abcnews.go.com/topics/news/trayvon-martin.htm)

So what happened? How can an armed man who shot and killed an unarmed teen after being told by the police that he didn't need to keep following him, likely be found not guilty of those crimes?
I certainly sympathize with the anger and frustration of the Martin family and doubt that a jury will accept the entirety of George Zimmerman's account as credible. But based on the legal standard and evidence presented by prosecutors it is difficult to see how jurors find proof beyond a reasonable doubt that it wasn't self defense.

Prosecutors are at a distinct legal disadvantage.

They have the burden to prove that Zimmerman did not "reasonably believe" that the gunshot was "necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm" to himself. That is no easy feat based on the evidence presented in their case. Almost every prosecution witness was called to discredit the only eyewitness who unquestionably saw everything that occurred that night, George Zimmerman.
The essence of Zimmerman's account is basically as follows:

He spotted Martin, became suspicious, called police, was told he didn't need to follow him, was only out of his car to give the authorities an address, was jumped and then pummeled by Martin and as he was being punched and having his head knocked into the ground, Martin went for Zimmerman's firearm and Zimmerman shot him once in the chest.

The prosecution, on the other hand, called 38 witnesses to try to show: Zimmerman was a wannabe cop who regularly reported black strangers in his neighborhood; initiated and was at least at one point, on top during the encounter; that Zimmerman's injuries were minor and that many aspects of his accounts to the police and media were inconsistent and/or lies.

For a moment, lets put aside the fact that many of the prosecution witnesses seemed to help Zimmerman in one way or another.As a legal matter, even if jurors find parts of Zimmerman's story fishy, that is not enough to convict. Even if they believe that Zimmerman initiated the altercation, and that his injuries were relatively minor, that too would be insufficient evidence to convict. Prosecutors have to effectively disprove self defense beyond a reasonable doubt. So what exactly would that mean based on the facts as we know them?

Let's take a hypothetical, but realistic, scenario whereby jurors don't believe Zimmerman when he says he wasn't following Martin (the lead detective who seemed to find Zimmerman's account credible had a problem with this part of Zimmerman's account).

Let's also assume they believe Zimmerman approached Martin and it is only because Zimmerman was tailing Trayvon Martin that a fight ensued. First of all, the fact that there was a fight at all makes a murder conviction difficult. To win a murder conviction, they have to show he had the intent to kill and did so with "depraved mind, hatred, malice, evil intent or ill will."

While prosecutors argue that Zimmerman's statements to the 911 operator about the "f------ punks" always "getting away," shows ill will, most legal analysts felt from the beginning that with a fight, a murder charge was overreaching.

Manslaughter is far more likely to create debate in that jury room (there could also be even lesser crimes they consider, where they could find him guilty of something).

Zimmerman's injuries alone -- his broken nose and cuts on the back of his head -- are objective evidence to support his account that he shot Martin as he was being pummeled.

Just as important is the testimony of neighbor John Good, who lived directly in front of the location where Martin was shot. He very precisely (but reluctantly) testified that he saw the lighter skinned man in the red jacket on the bottom of the scuffle with the darker skinned man with the darker clothing on the top in a "mixed martial arts position." He said he now believes that Trayvon Martin was on top of Zimmerman.

But wait, another witness said she thought Zimmerman was likely on top. Put aside the fact that Good's home is the closest to the incident and that her testimony didn't seem nearly as credible or definitive as Good's, that doesn't change the legal reality that one does not negate the other.

The prosecution has the burden to prove the case and so if there is reasonable doubt, the defense wins. Good's testimony in conjunction with Zimmerman's injuries are likely enough to cast reasonable doubt on the key question, which is whether Zimmerman reasonably believed he needed to shoot Martin to prevent "great bodily injury."

Of course, the jurors could also accept all or the vast majority of Zimmerman's account, making an acquittal that much easier.
What about the fact that prosecution witnesses have testified that his injuries were not that significant? While interesting (and debatable), the only relevant legal question is what was Zimmerman thinking or fearing at the time, not what already occurred.

In many self defense cases the person who shoots a fatal bullet suffers no injuries at all and instead argues he or she protected himself or herself from injury by shooting the attacker.
So wait, let's take a step back. If jurors believe Zimmerman followed Martin, maybe even racially profiled him and initiated the altercation, can Zimmerman still legally claim he needed to defend himself and walk free? Yes.

If these jurors have questions or doubts about whether, at the moment he fired the fatal shot, Zimmerman "reasonably" feared that this was the only way to stop from getting beaten further, then they have to find him not guilty.


To be clear, if we were talking about Florida's controversial Stand Your Ground Law, who initiated the encounter would be crucial and the defendant would have the burden to prove that he should not be held legally responsible for the shooting. That law, which can protect a shooter from even going to trial, wasn't designed for someone who starts a fight and then loses the fight he initiated.

Zimmerman waived a pre-trial Stand Your Ground hearing and went directly to trial (likely because his lawyers knew they would lose) and simply argued classic self-defense, which is different. Now no matter how it started, if Zimmerman shot Martin because he reasonably believed it was the only way to protect himself from "great bodily harm" then he is not guilty. That's the law.

With all of this said, juries are notoriously impossible to predict and the deliberation process can take on a life of its own, but if they follow the letter of the law, it's hard to see, based on everything we know now, how they find him guilty of either murder or even manslaughter.

[Trill Clinton]

i must say, cowardman has some loyal friends. no way would they spend that type of money on me if i killed a kid.

[tlongII]

i must say, cowardman has some loyal friends. no way would they spend that type of money on me if i killed a kid.

I think your friends would help you out if you were unjustly accused of murder.

[boobie4three]

Gym owner says Zimmerman couldn't punch his way out of a paper bag.

[G-Nob]

So based on the trainer testimony, no way GZ overtakes TM because he was doughy and had no muscle?

[CosmicCowboy]

i must say, cowardman has some loyal friends. no way would they spend that type of money on me if i killed a kid.

Thats true. We wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire. :lol

[spursncowboys]

He wasn't given instructions but its clear that it was recommended to him that he not do so.

We know that he followed Martin and Martin didn't yank him out of the car.

WC is just as baseless and lacking articulation as the rest of the Zimmerman defense corps.

From what I can tell there was no law broken. In that idea, it is scary how the DA is willing to throw away zimmermans life away to apease a voting block. Then again I'm assuming her views. Maybe she doesn't like do-gooders. He was given instructions from someone who is not authorized to give instructions, or who has any personal impact in the situation of car break ins. Since Zimmerman hasn't been shown so far to be lieing about anything, and even the investigator said he seemed credible, why not believe him when he said he was trying to get a street sign name when he was attacked.

[boutons_deux]

"Since Zimmerman hasn't been shown so far to be lieing about anything"

he concealed his 2nd passport, and IIRC funds, when his first passport was confiscated. He also lied to the court before the trial. He's a wannabe-cop shitbag, with a history of arrests and personal violence. He violated NW rules about carrying a gun and do anything other than calling the police. He claim that he got out to read a street sign is bullshit, a lie to go with all his other lies. You don't have to get out a vehicle to read a street sign, do you?

And he just happened to get out where, when he lost sight of TM.

a typical bully, all bullshit bravado hiding dicklessly behind a gun, until somebody calls his bluff and gets the better of him.

[elbamba]

"Since Zimmerman hasn't been shown so far to be lieing about anything"

he concealed his 2nd passport, and IIRC funds, when his first passport was confiscated. He also lied to the court before the trial. He's a wannabe-cop shitbag, with a history of arrests and personal violence. He violated NW rules about carrying a gun and do anything other than calling the police. He claim that he got out to read a street sign is bullshit, a lie to go with all his other lies. You don't have to get out a vehicle to read a street sign, do you?

You do realize that he has not taken the stand. Unless there is something that I am unaware of with regard to the rules of evidence in Florida, I am pretty sure none of that goes in front of the jury and the judge will order that any info they are aware of prior to the trial is not to be considered when rendering a verdict of innocent or guilt.

Zimmerman lied under oath. But unless he testifies, it doesn't matter for purposes of this criminal trial.

And he just happened to get out where, when he lost sight of TM.

a typical bully, all bullshit bravado hiding dicklessly behind a gun, until somebody calls his bluff and gets the better of him.

[Oh, Gee!!]

how did he ever expect to be a cop if he can't do something like follow a teenager without getting his ass kicked?

[elbamba]

how did he ever expect to be a cop if he can't do something like follow a teenager without getting his ass kicked?

According to his trainer he was trying to get into shape. He was certainly skinnier but not stronger. Thats for damn sure.

Now he is fat again. If he keeps eating like he has been, there will be no need for capital punishment in his case.

[tlongII]

"Since Zimmerman hasn't been shown so far to be lieing about anything"

he concealed his 2nd passport, and IIRC funds, when his first passport was confiscated. He also lied to the court before the trial. He's a wannabe-cop shitbag, with a history of arrests and personal violence. He violated NW rules about carrying a gun and do anything other than calling the police. He claim that he got out to read a street sign is bullshit, a lie to go with all his other lies. You don't have to get out a vehicle to read a street sign, do you?

And he just happened to get out where, when he lost sight of TM.

a typical bully, all bullshit bravado hiding dicklessly behind a gun, until somebody calls his bluff and gets the better of him.






I've had to get out of my car to read a street sign before.

[Trill Clinton]

the neighborhood only has 3 streets, he can't memorize 3 street names? yikes

[Fabbs]

You don't have to get out a vehicle to read a street sign, do you?

50% of the time yes.
Lame gov't politicos wasting taxpayers money often fail to keep the street signs up to date and legible at night. For that matter in the day. :lol
Faded paint, faded highlights.

[Trill Clinton]

50% of the time yes.
Lame gov't politicos wasting taxpayers money often fail to keep the street signs up to date and legible at night. For that matter in the day. :lol
Faded paint, faded highlights.


is that you in mono's sig?

[boutons_deux]

I've had to get out of my car to read a street sign before.

so?

[tlongII]

so?

So you just indicated that GZ must be lying when he said he did.

[boutons_deux]

no google street view in gated neighborhood

where was the murder and street sign?

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Retreat+View+Circle,+Sanford,+FL&hl=en&ll=28.792943,-81.329698&spn=0.002376,0.004128&sll=31.168934,-100.076842&sspn=18.950931,33.815918&oq=retreat+view+ci&hnear=Retreat+View+Cir,+Sanford,+Seminole,+Florida +32771&t=h&z=19

[Creepn]

So you just indicated that GZ must be lying when he said he did.

Yes. Why act so surprised that he lies?

Look at the map. He knew damn well there weren't any street signs. He got out to follow the kid. Plain and simple.

[2centsworth]

This case is freakin tragic. I think GZ goes free, but he's not innocent.

[Creepn]

50% of the time yes.
Lame gov't politicos wasting taxpayers money often fail to keep the street signs up to date and legible at night. For that matter in the day. :lol
Faded paint, faded highlights.

lmao needing to look for a street sign for a street that goes in a cirlce. Thanks for admitting the level of your intelligence so people know not to take your posts seriously.

[tlongII]

Yes. Why act so surprised that he lies?

Look at the map. He knew damn well there weren't any street signs. He got out to follow the kid. Plain and simple.

I'm not surprised at anything I've heard or seen in this trial.

[boutons_deux]

bing maps

search "twin trees lane sanford fl"


go to birds eye view,

zoom in max

there is no street sign where Z murdered T

[FuzzyLumpkins]

This case is freakin tragic. I think GZ goes free, but he's not innocent.

With a comment like this, how can you not think that manslaughter is a strong possibility?

If say the jury decides that he unnecessarily followed Martin and that he lied about the events that night like the forensic and circumstantial evidence suggests, I could see manslaughter being an easy choice.

[CosmicCowboy]

the neighborhood only has 3 streets, he can't memorize 3 street names? yikes

I've driven through the subdivision next to my house every morning going to work for 25 years and I can't tell you the names of the streets. It's totally irrelevant when you know the area.

[Trill Clinton]

why do so many whites defend zimmerman if he isn't white?

[Trill Clinton]

I've driven through the subdivision next to my house every morning going to work for 25 years and I can't tell you the names of the streets. It's totally irrelevant when you know the area.

i guess. every neighborhood i've lived in i knew the street names around where i lived. i would tell people to turn on x street, make a right on y street, pass the stop sign and make a left on z street, now you're at my casa.

[CosmicCowboy]

why do so many whites defend zimmerman if he isn't white?

Says the racist who and can only support the black guy no matter what the evidence says. It ain't murder 2, buckwheat.

[Trill Clinton]

i didn't know weed made you violent. cheech n chong must have been smoking some weak shit in those movies.

[Trill Clinton]

Says the racist who and can only support the black guy no matter what the evidence says. It ain't murder 2, buckwheat.

[Trill Clinton]

i don't care what the laws say, a kid was profiled, stalked and murdered, period. not a grown men with a criminal record, a 158 pound high school student from a good home.

[DPG21920]

i don't care what the laws say, a kid was profiled, stalked and murdered, period. not a grown men with a criminal record, a 158 pound high school student from a good home.

What do you make of Trayvon's drug use, facebook posts about selling drugs and his language towards women? Not that it has anything to do with getting murked, just wanted to know if you think that is normal for good kids?

Keep in mind, Aaron Hernandez grew up in a great home too.

[Fabbs]

i don't care what the laws say, a kid was profiled, stalked and murdered, period. not a grown men with a criminal record, a 158 pound high school student from a good home.
Since you're gonna just keep using bandwidth......
Traybonz Troll Twins rating on this post:
1/10

[AntiChrist]

why do so many whites defend zimmerman if he isn't white?

That's real retarded, sir.

[Trill Clinton]

What do you make of Trayvon's drug use, facebook posts about selling drugs and his language towards women? Not that it has anything to do with getting murked, just wanted to know if you think that is normal for good kids?

Keep in mind, Aaron Hernandez grew up in a great home too.

what about it? he experimented with weed, big deal. a lot of kids straight flex on instagram and facebook about a life they don't live. please tell me you're not comparing hernandez to trayvon? at 17 hernandez was a suspect in a driveby that caused someone to lose an eye.



Since you're gonna just keep using bandwidth......
Traybonz Troll Twins rating on this post:
1/10

is that you in mono's sig?


That's real retarded, sir.
explain

[Trill Clinton]

defend a kid killer and smear the dead kid...hahahahah

[Trill Clinton]

why do so many whites defend zimmerman if he isn't white?

[Fabbs]

why do so many whites defend zimmerman if he isn't white?
Traybonz Twin Troll rating:
1/10

[AntiChrist]

I would think GZ is innocent of 2nd degree murder, regardless of his ethnicity (or the ethnicity of the victim).

[2centsworth]

With a comment like this, how can you not think that manslaughter is a strong possibility?

If say the jury decides that he unnecessarily followed Martin and that he lied about the events that night like the forensic and circumstantial evidence suggests, I could see manslaughter being an easy choice.

I should clarify. It doesn't look like he broke the law. IMO, his broken nose and wounds are enough reasonable doubt.

[DPG21920]

what about it? he experimented with weed, big deal. a lot of kids straight flex on instagram and facebook about a life they don't live. please tell me you're not comparing hernandez to trayvon? at 17 hernandez was a suspect in a driveby that caused someone to lose an eye.


Not comparing them at all. Just saying living a good life, privileged life does not mean you are a good person. Thank you for answering though. I see you think Trayvon was just lying about selling drugs trying to be cool vs actually being mixed up in that stuff in the real world.

Smoking a little is not a big deal, I agree, but selling would be much, much worse. Plus racist language too.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I should clarify. It doesn't look like he broke the law. IMO, his broken nose and wounds are enough reasonable doubt.

Then what is he 'not innocent' of?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Not comparing them at all. Just saying living a good life, privileged life does not mean you are a good person. Thank you for answering though. I see you think Trayvon was just lying about selling drugs trying to be cool vs actually being mixed up in that stuff in the real world.

Smoking a little is not a big deal, I agree, but selling would be much, much worse. Plus racist language too.

You strike me as decidedly out of touch.

Aaron Hernandez? Really?

[DPG21920]

You strike me as decidedly out of touch.

Aaron Hernandez? Really?

Hi! You must be new here. I'm DPG. I mod the NBA Forum and I am Kori/Timvp's Nephew. I am sure you will love it here and if you have any questions, any questions at all, please let me know. Happy posting!

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Hi! You must be new here. I'm DPG. I mod the NBA Forum and I am Kori/Timvp's Nephew. I am sure you will love it here and if you have any questions, any questions at all, please let me know. Happy posting!

My point still stands. You seem decidedly out of touch and the Hernandez assertion was gratuitous bullshit.

How about you regurgitate some of the Grizzlies advertising campaign for us again instead of addressing the point?

[DPG21920]

Yikes.

[AntiChrist]

Hi! You must be new here. I'm DPG. I mod the NBA Forum and I am Kori/Timvp's Nephew. I am sure you will love it here and if you have any questions, any questions at all, please let me know. Happy posting!


If this is true, can you please fix my account with username DarrinS? Ever since I changed my email address in my profile, I can't post with that account. Tired of using this troll, tbh.

[DPG21920]

I don't have that type of mod power unfortunately.

[AntiChrist]

I don't have that type of mod power unfortunately.

Can you forward to the admin please? Still can't understand why changing my email locked me out.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Yikes.

And now you are being coy.

Your Aaron Hernandez shot was gratuitous.

You seem decidedly clueless about how kids behave. If you are of that age that just makes it even worse. As for how I would know, its because I tutored high school math and science and recently graduated from college.

And I still think it's funny that the justification for your support for the Grizzlies during the playoffs was centered around their 'grit and grind' advertising campaign.

It's not like anything is out of left field so I don't see why youre fronting like this. If anything is 'yikes' for me it's how you don't seem to stand by what you say. I don't blame you though especially the Aaron Hernandez shot.

[DPG21920]

Oh Boi!

[Trill Clinton]

i thought the where's waldo pics jeebus's lame ass was posting was bad but this shit right here?!? smh



http://i44.tinypic.com/2n0ss3r.jpg

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Oh Boi!

Well I suppose this is better than the nonsense you were coming with before and I like improvement so thank you.

[2centsworth]

Then what is he 'not innocent' of?

the kids death could have been prevented.

[Creepn]

Hi! You must be new here. I'm DPG. I mod the NBA Forum and I am Kori/Timvp's Nephew. I am sure you will love it here and if you have any questions, any questions at all, please let me know. Happy posting!

You mod the NBA forum? You, being a person who supposedly abhors racism, I'm disappointed about your lack of action against the rampant racism that goes on up there.

[Creepn]

i thought the where's waldo pics jeebus's lame ass was posting was bad but this shit right here?!? smh



http://i44.tinypic.com/2n0ss3r.jpg

I think the "Trayvoning" trend is worse. White kids dressed in hoodies and lying on the ground pretending to be dead with skittles and tea.

[DPG21920]

You mod the NBA forum? You, being a person who supposedly abhors racism, I'm disappointed about your lack of action against the rampant racism that goes on up there.

I don't have a lot of powers tbh. If I did, they would be gone..

[Wild Cobra]

why do so many whites defend zimmerman if he isn't white?
We aren't the racists you think we are.

[BradLohaus]

I grew up in a neighborhood with weird street logistics. I visit my home town quite a bit and I still couldn't tell you the names of some streets that I've walked/driven countless times.

Even a group of 6 women can't fuck up murder here, but give them an out and they just might take it. Manslaughter is a real possibility.

[BradLohaus]

But i doubt it. O'Mara and West negotiated well to sacrifice white men to keep all blacks off of the jury.

Since it's obvious that Z was on the bottom and screaming that should be it, since there's no evidence as to who started the fight; the sate admitted that over a year ago. Dale Gilbreath? What happened to him?

[CosmicCowboy]

Even manslaughter is a stretch. Trayvon sitting on Zimmermans chest going MMA ground and pound was a felony. Florida law specifically allows the manslaughter defense of:

"Justifiable use of deadly force to defend against a felony committed against a person or property"

[CosmicCowboy]

The Nidal Hasan trial is starting.

Time to choose sides. I'll take the "Hell yeah he is guilty and should fry!" side and Trill can be the Captain of the "He's just a poor innocent Muslim!" team. Boutons can be the court jester.

[Creepn]

I grew up in a neighborhood with weird street logistics. I visit my home town quite a bit and I still couldn't tell you the names of some streets that I've walked/driven countless times.

Even a group of 6 women can't fuck up murder here, but give them an out and they just might take it. Manslaughter is a real possibility.

How many streets are there? Are there more than three?

[boutons_deux]

heard on NPR this morning the military itself knew Hassan was a huge risk, but the CYA brass did nothing.

Exactly like the military/contractor management fucking up badly by letting a low level nerd like Manning have access to world-wide classified data.

Anybody heard that ANY military/contractor brass got hit for either of the above fuck ups?

[boobie4three]

Graphics guy up to present an animation of the incident.

[spursncowboys]

Trill Clinton: In all honesty, I wasn't defending GZ at first. I was, however, sickened by how black leadership like Sharpton used this to manipulate people for the sake of showing they still have sway. Then when evidence showed that there was no case, but the DA still pushed for a charge...

[spursncowboys]

You mod the NBA forum? You, being a person who supposedly abhors racism, I'm disappointed about your lack of action against the rampant racism that goes on up there.
Would you be against anyone making racist comments? Even your buddies?

[Creepn]

Would you be against anyone making racist comments? Even your buddies?

Of course.

[spursncowboys]

Creepn: Well I'm for that too then. Maybe not NBA since that seems to be the gutter of SpursTalk and I doubt they would think of anything else to troll about.

[Fabbs]

Judge allowing marijuana toxicology report.
Will see how large of a door that opens.

[boutons_deux]

Judge allowing marijuana toxicology report.
Will see how large of a door that opens.

totally irelelavant, but since it's admitted, the prosecution should ask to admit all of Z's arrests and bouncer-violence records, which are much more damning that mj use.

[tlongII]

totally irelelavant, but since it's admitted, the prosecution should ask to admit all of Z's arrests and bouncer-violence records, which are much more damning that mj use.

I guess the judge doesn't think it's irrelevant.

[CosmicCowboy]

The defense smoked em on the tox report. It was originally denied and West played his hand perfectly on Bao's cross. They had to finally allow it to kill the doubt that it might have contained something worse.

[CosmicCowboy]

totally irelelavant, but since it's admitted, the prosecution should ask to admit all of Z's arrests and bouncer-violence records, which are much more damning that mj use.

It's a game the defense has played better than the prosecutor. They intentionally won't allow any of their witnesses to say anything about good character that would give the prosecutor an opening to rebut.

[Trill Clinton]

Trill Clinton (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=20413): In all honesty, I wasn't defending GZ at first. I was, however, sickened by how black leadership like Sharpton used this to manipulate people for the sake of showing they still have sway. Then when evidence showed that there was no case, but the DA still pushed for a charge...

messy jackson and al shaprton are not my leaders. i don't follow them crooks. this case caught my attention when it was still a local story, jackson and sharpton didn't get involved until they saw the support and outrage many blacks had. they didn't manipulate anyone except the public who weren't aware of the story before those of us bombarded the stanford police department with phone calls and sent bags of skittles.

i don't see why people let them two clowns get them all worked up.

[KingsFanWithoutName]

messy jackson and al shaprton are not my leaders. i don't follow them crooks. this case caught my attention when it was still a local story, jackson and sharpton didn't get involved until they saw the support and outrage many blacks had. they didn't manipulate anyone except the public who weren't aware of the story before those of us bombarded the stanford police department with phone calls and sent bags of skittles.

i don't see why people let them two clowns get them all worked up.You personally mailed skittles??? :lmao

[Trill Clinton]

You personally mailed skittles??? :lmao

yup, not like i personally donated money to support a kid killer *trill shrug*

[CosmicCowboy]

Trill mailed skittles.

:lmao:lmao:lmao

cheap bastard probably didn't send the Robitussen though.

[Trill Clinton]

i mailed a bag of tropical flavored skittles and sent a letter asking for Bill Lee to be fired...i got what i wanted. what i find funny is people using money to pay for a child killer and his fat wife to live like royalty, sad.

[Chief Brody]

A lifetime supply of skittles is well worth one raisinet

[Sportcamper]

Can anyone explain the strategy of Zimmerman gaining 100 pounds since he shot Tray in cold blood? Is it to make George look vulnerable? He now looks like one of those guys on To Catch A Predator With Chris Hansen …

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Even manslaughter is a stretch. Trayvon sitting on Zimmermans chest going MMA ground and pound was a felony. Florida law specifically allows the manslaughter defense of:

"Justifiable use of deadly force to defend against a felony committed against a person or property"

Too bad that is not an established fact. But nice example of selection bias nonetheless.


The defense smoked em on the tox report. It was originally denied and West played his hand perfectly on Bao's cross. They had to finally allow it to kill the doubt that it might have contained something worse.


It's a game the defense has played better than the prosecutor. They intentionally won't allow any of their witnesses to say anything about good character that would give the prosecutor an opening to rebut.

Sweet. It gets to be CC story time.

[Wild Cobra]

Can anyone explain the strategy of Zimmerman gaining 100 pounds since he shot Tray in cold blood? Is it to make George look vulnerable? He now looks like one of those guys on To Catch A Predator With Chris Hansen …

He probably was staying inside, not exercising, and stressed...

[CosmicCowboy]

Too bad that is not an established fact. But nice example of selection bias nonetheless.





Sweet. It gets to be CC story time.

:lmao

Not an established fact? The ONLY eyewitness to the beating used those exact words...MMA ground and pound. The jury gets it even if idiots like you don't.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

:lmao

Not an established fact? The ONLY eyewitness to the beating used those exact words...MMA ground and pound. The jury gets it even if idiots like you don't.

Sweet story, man. How do you come up with them so quick? How you spin that yarn of what the jury knows or doesn't is breathtaking in it's bullshit.

[AntiChrist]

Sweet story, man. How do you come up with them so quick? How you spin that yarn of what the jury knows or doesn't is breathtaking in it's bullshit.


I think he's assuming that the jury uses common sense. But, based on other cases I have seen, that's not always a good assumption.

[CosmicCowboy]

Sweet story, man. How do you come up with them so quick? How you spin that yarn of what the jury knows or doesn't is breathtaking in it's bullshit.

uhhh....dumbass...the jury sits there all day and listens to the testimony of the witnesses and sees the forensic evidence. It's a pretty compelling story of self defense from a punk doing an MMA style ground and pound. You might actually want to read some transcripts of the trial so you don't appear to be so fucking stupid.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

uhhh....dumbass...the jury sits there all day and listens to the testimony of the witnesses and sees the forensic evidence. It's a pretty compelling story of self defense from a punk doing an MMA style ground and pound. You might actually want to read some transcripts of the trial so you don't appear to be so fucking stupid.

So a group of women is going to come to the same conclusion as CC because well he came to that conclusion.

Cool story!

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I think he's assuming that the jury uses common sense. But, based on other cases I have seen, that's not always a good assumption.

And you are the gauge of common sense now....

You guys are awesome.

[AntiChrist]

And you are the gauge of common sense now....

You guys are awesome.

GZ's injuries don't give you a clue about who was on bottom?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

GZ's injuries don't give you a clue about who was on bottom?

It gives a clue as to him falling down and hitting his head but as the ME pointed out they were not consistent with someone who had his head pounded into the pavement.

My sense tells me that for a myriad of reasons, Zimmerman's account of what happened is not what happened. IOW, he's lying to cover his ass and he is hiding something. Do you disagree with that?

[CosmicCowboy]

Defense will rest today. Prosecutions close should be good for a laugh or two.

[AntiChrist]

It gives a clue as to him falling down and hitting his head but as the ME pointed out they were not consistent with someone who had his head pounded into the pavement.

My sense tells me that for a myriad of reasons, Zimmerman's account of what happened is not what happened. IOW, he's lying to cover his ass and he is hiding something. Do you disagree with that?

Wow

[boutons_deux]

"he's lying to cover his ass"

of course he is. has been since the cops arrived on the scene.

[CosmicCowboy]

If he is lying the prosecution certainly missed their opportunity to prove it.

[Fabbs]

It gives a clue as to him falling down and hitting his head but as the ME pointed out they were not consistent with someone who had his head pounded into the pavement.

My sense tells me that for a myriad of reasons, Zimmerman's account of what happened is not what happened. IOW, he's lying to cover his ass and he is hiding something. Do you disagree with that?
The ME Shiping Bao? Poor guy got shredded by all accounts. You Traybonz supporters wanted go with what this ME said, the can is open for his saying marijuana could have altered his state of mind. That gonna lead to the makins of "lean" and oh no.

[CosmicCowboy]

The ME Shiping Bao? Poor guy got shredded by all accounts. You Traybonz supporters wanted go with what this ME said, the can is open for his saying marijuana could have altered his state of mind. That gonna lead to the makins of "lean" and oh no.

No it won't. Defense has already destroyed the prosecutions case. They don't need to speculate on the lean issue.

[Fabbs]

No it won't. Defense has already destroyed the prosecutions case. They don't need to speculate on the lean issue.
As a fair minded and reasonable observer, it helped me being informed that Travonz purchased three of the 4 ingredients needed to make lean.
Does that mean he was for a fact making lean? No, maybe he just likes skittles and Arizona Tea at midnight on a rainy night.
Combined with his burglary and wanna be wrapper-thug persona? Yeah the store purchase adds.

The GZ haters keep parroting his wanna be cop stuff. Completely fair that Traybonz wanna be stuff be available also. Good for the goose/gander.
How the all chick jury uses this info, we shall see. Agree CC perhaps they have already seen enough but to me they outta have it all.
Did judge rule the marijuana is in or out? I know on July 5th she bogusly ruled it out. Is it now as it should be, in?

[boutons_deux]

"The GZ haters keep parroting his wanna be cop stuff. Completely fair that Traybonz wanna be stuff be available also. Good for the goose/gander."

except the gander got murdered after being stalked by the fake-macho wanna-be-cop goose. Z thinks he's macho bastard layin down the law on "young black male niggas", but got his bully ass beat up by 17 year old kid.

it doesn't matter whether TM was drug user or drug dealer. Z didn't murder M for either of those activities, but because he was a young black punk in a hoodie.

[Creepn]

As a fair minded and reasonable observer, it helped me being informed that Travonz purchased three of the 4 ingredients needed to make lean.
Does that mean he was for a fact making lean? No, maybe he just likes skittles and Arizona Tea at midnight on a rainy night.
Combined with his burglary and wanna be wrapper-thug persona? Yeah the store purchase adds.

The GZ haters keep parroting his wanna be cop stuff. Completely fair that Traybonz wanna be stuff be available also. Good for the goose/gander.
How the all chick jury uses this info, we shall see. Agree CC perhaps they have already seen enough but to me they outta have it all.
Did judge rule the marijuana is in or out? I know on July 5th she bogusly ruled it out. Is it now as it should be, in?

The young brother testified he asked for Skittles when Martin was going to the store. The campaign to demonize a dead teen continues.

[CosmicCowboy]

As a fair minded and reasonable observer, it helped me being informed that Travonz purchased three of the 4 ingredients needed to make lean.
Does that mean he was for a fact making lean? No, maybe he just likes skittles and Arizona Tea at midnight on a rainy night.
Combined with his burglary and wanna be wrapper-thug persona? Yeah the store purchase adds.

The GZ haters keep parroting his wanna be cop stuff. Completely fair that Traybonz wanna be stuff be available also. Good for the goose/gander.
How the all chick jury uses this info, we shall see. Agree CC perhaps they have already seen enough but to me they outta have it all.
Did judge rule the marijuana is in or out? I know on July 5th she bogusly ruled it out. Is it now as it should be, in?

The defense played that incredibly well by mentioning "blood drawn for toxicology" over and over in their cross examination of the ME verifying that a tox screen had been done...then the prosecution objected, further accenting the fact that the jury was being prevented from seeing the results for some reason...then the judge chimed in and reminded the defense that she had ruled the results inadmissable (even though the defense had not asked specifically about the results). By that time the jury had to be wondering what awful thing they were being prevented from seeing so they ended up allowing the marijuana use into evidence to keep the jury from thinking it was something worse. It was pretty funny. The defense team is DAMN good.

[Bill_Brasky]

I really don't understand what kind of terrible, awful person would be "celebrating" and rooting for certain outcomes in this case. Like why are you getting joy out of this you fucking scumbag.

[CosmicCowboy]

I really don't understand what kind of terrible, awful person would be "celebrating" and rooting for certain outcomes in this case. Like why are you getting joy out of this you fucking scumbag.

I'm laughing at Trill, Creepn and Boutons. I told therm from day one the state couldn't prove murder two. Don't be such a little emo bitch. Speculating on the legal chess game won't change the fact that the kid is dead.

[Fabbs]

...then the judge chimed in and reminded the defense that she had ruled the results inadmissable (even though the defense had not asked specifically about the results). By that time the jury had to be wondering what awful thing they were being prevented from seeing so they ended up allowing the marijuana use into evidence to keep the jury from thinking it was something worse.
So where are we at now with the judge and the tox report?
Maryjane can be brought up but nothing else?
How about the purchases at store being 3 of 4 lean items, with the 4th being illegal (codein)? Can the defense bring that up and let the 6 chicks decide what to do with the info?

Traybonz Troll #2
The young brother testified he asked for Skittles when Martin was going to the store. The campaign to demonize a dead teen continues.
Okay, but I'd want to be able to decide for myself if "the young brother" testifying was coached and covering for Traybonz. I do not state he is or isn't. That coaching/covering is within the realm of possibilty, that's 100%.
CC, was he crossed on this?

[clambake]

the fact that george is a liar is not speculation. its already confirmed.

[CosmicCowboy]

So where are we at now with the judge and the tox report?
Maryjane can be brought up but nothing else?
How about the purchases at store being 3 of 4 lean items, with the 4th being illegal (codein)? Can the defense bring that up and let the 6 chicks decide what to do with the info?

Traybonz Troll #2
Okay, but I'd want to be able to decide for myself if "the young brother" testifying was coached and covering for Traybonz. I do not state he is or isn't. That coaching/covering is within the realm of possibilty, that's 100%.
CC, was he crossed on this?

I don't think so. Like I said, the defense won't touch the lean angle. Way too much speculation. They have already devastated the prosecutions weak ass case. They will quit while they are way ahead.

[Fabbs]

Travon supporters et al including The Traybonz Trolls with Bakedclam on the side

It was Zimmerman on top of Trayvon. It had to be. Anyone who says otherwise be a liar.
Response from neighbor Elouise Dilliagard.
http://imageshack.us/scaled/large/841/ezsm.jpg

http://www.atomicarchive.com/Effects/Images/WE12.jpg

[Creepn]

Daaamn prosecution getting some good info and contradictions from the self-defense expert. All jurors are standing.

[tlongII]

"The GZ haters keep parroting his wanna be cop stuff. Completely fair that Traybonz wanna be stuff be available also. Good for the goose/gander."

except the gander got murdered after being stalked by the fake-macho wanna-be-cop goose. Z thinks he's macho bastard layin down the law on "young black male niggas", but got his bully ass beat up by 17 year old kid.

it doesn't matter whether TM was drug user or drug dealer. Z didn't murder M for either of those activities, but because he was a young black punk in a hoodie.



Z shot M because M was beating the hell out of Z. Obvious.

[Creepn]

Z shot M because M was beating the hell out of Z. Obvious.

Medical doctor says he wasn't beaten.

[CosmicCowboy]

Medical doctor says he wasn't beaten.

:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

[CosmicCowboy]

Creepn cracks me up. I can't decide if he is just a troll that posts stuff he knows not to be true just to get attention or if he is just really fucking stupid and believes the shit he posts.

[tlongII]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/df/George_Zimmerman_front_of_head.jpg

http://www.westernjournalism.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/George-Zimmerman-head.jpg

[tlongII]

Looks pretty beaten to me.

[tlongII]

But fuck the media. They're the ones that turned this into a racial thing. I can't believe they withheld the photos initially after the incident occurred. If there is rioting after Zimmerman is found not guilty the media only has themselves to blame.

[Creepn]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/df/George_Zimmerman_front_of_head.jpg

http://www.westernjournalism.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/George-Zimmerman-head.jpg

Cut's behind the head are known to bleed profusely because of the many vessels back there. In actually, his cuts were very small and "insignificant". Again, this is coming from the medical doctor's testimony.

[Creepn]

Creepn cracks me up. I can't decide if he is just a troll that posts stuff he knows not to be true just to get attention or if he is just really fucking stupid and believes the shit he posts.

You do realize the medical doctor testified and deemed his wounds insignificant and wasn't consistant as someone who was beaten?

[CosmicCowboy]

You do realize the medical doctor testified and deemed his wounds insignificant and wasn't consistant as someone who was beaten?

Are you talking about the quack that Angela Corey brought in? She wasn't even the ME that did the autopsy and owed Corey for her job after she had been fired from her previous position as ME in another county.

And I presume you know that the extent or severity of injuries is irrelevant to self defense...correct?

[tlongII]

Cut's behind the head are known to bleed profusely because of the many vessels back there. In actually, his cuts were very small and "insignificant". Again, this is coming from the medical doctor's testimony.

And the bloody nose?

[CosmicCowboy]

Creepn is just trolling us. He can't be THAT stupid.

Or can he?

[Creepn]

And the bloody nose?

Just because you was hit once or twice, doesn't mean you was beaten.

[Creepn]

Gathering testimony, this is how the initial confrontation went down:

Trayvon saw a somebody stalking him and told Jeantel, "There's a creepy ass cracker following me". Trayvon ran to hide. Zimmerman got out of the car and looked down the T-section for him but when he didn't see him, he was going to walk back to his car. That's when Trayvon decided to approach him and asked him "Why are you following me?". Jeantel says Zimmerman replied "What are you doing here?" and heard a thump on the microphone which indicates someone making some sort of physical contact on Trayvon's chest, a shove if you will. That's when Trayvon busted his nose. The rest is history.

[tlongII]

Just because you was hit once or twice, doesn't mean you was beaten.

Okay.

[CosmicCowboy]

Here is Creepn's "doctor" getting destroyed on cross

yqtV0rkOR5Q

[CosmicCowboy]

Gathering testimony, this is how the initial confrontation went down:

Trayvon saw a somebody stalking him and told Jeantel, "There's a creepy ass cracker following me". Trayvon ran to hide. Zimmerman got out of the car and looked down the T-section for him but when he didn't see him, he was going to walk back to his car. That's when Trayvon decided to approach him and asked him "Why are you following me?". Jeantel says Zimmerman replied "What are you doing here?" and heard a thump on the microphone which indicates someone making some sort of physical contact on Trayvon's chest, a shove if you will. That's when Trayvon busted his nose. The rest is history.

Wow

that's amazing

you really should have been a witness at the trial.

[Sportcamper]

Zimmerman’s defense tries to Hammer Home the Wimp Factor… :loser

George Zimmerman’s defense team continued Wednesday to play up the wimp factor, calling yet another witness to reinforce their claim that the pudgy neighborhood watch volunteer was "by no stretch of the imagination" a match for Trayvon Martin in their fight before Zimmerman shot and killed the teen in a gated Florida community last year.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/07/10/zimmerman-defense-winding-down-case-wednesday/

[CosmicCowboy]

Creepn believed DeeDee...

:lmao:lmao

[tlongII]

Damn the defense attorneys are destroying the prosecution! :lol



The mannequin was initially introduced by prosecutor John Guy during cross-examination of defense witness Dennis Root, a former law enforcement officer who testified as an expert on defensive use of force. Guy used it to show how, if Martin were straddling Zimmerman, he would have had difficulty reaching for a gun holstered at his waist.

After Guy wrapped up his round of questioning, lead defense attorney Mark O'Mara stepped up.

"May I use your doll?" asked O'Mara.

O'Mara straddled the dummy on the floor in front of the witness stand, grabbed it by the shoulders and drove its head into the floor repeatedly.

"Would the injuries on Mr. Zimmerman, the back of his head, be consistent with someone doing this on cement?" asked O'Mara as he slammed the flopping mannequin's head into the floor.

"I don't think so," replied Root.

"How about this?" asked O'Mara, continuing to bash the life-sized dummy against the floor, but placing its arm against his shoulder, as if it were resisting. "How about someone resisting the attack? Could that have come from if someone was resisting me pushing down like this?"

Root responded, "I believe so."

[Creepn]

Creepn believed DeeDee...

:lmao:lmao

CC believes Zimmerman...

:lmao:lmao

[CosmicCowboy]

CC believes Zimmerman...

:lmao:lmao

The jury will agree with CC

/creepn

[Creepn]

LMAO at West begging Zimmerman not to take the stand and testify.

You see that CC? Lawyers so afraid to let Zimmerman take the stand and *gasps* tell the truth.

[Sportcamper]

LMAO at West begging Zimmerman not to take the stand and testify.
You see that CC? Lawyers so afraid to let Zimmerman take the stand and *gasps* tell the truth.

I think what he is afraid of is Zimmerman exposing himself as a creepy loser…

[CosmicCowboy]

LMAO at West begging Zimmerman not to take the stand and testify.

You see that CC? Lawyers so afraid to let Zimmerman take the stand and *gasps* tell the truth.

The defense has so thoroughly destroyed the prosecutions case that Zimmerman would be an idiot to testify now and open himself up to possibly getting tripped up on cross.

[Bill_Brasky]

I'm laughing at Trill, Creepn and Boutons. I told therm from day one the state couldn't prove murder two. Don't be such a little emo bitch. Speculating on the legal chess game won't change the fact that the kid is dead.
Did you not think i was referring to them as well? They hope he gets found innocent so the guy gets lynch mobbed.

Just sad tbh. One guy makes an irresponsible decision and we have to muddy things up the way we have.

[boutons_deux]

"One guy makes an irresponsible decision"

the one who bought Skittles?

or

the one who murdered him?

Anybody find the street sign that Z lied about, saying he got out of his truck ONLY to read the mythical sign, NOT to stalk M on foot? :lol

[CosmicCowboy]

Could be the one that attacked the guy with the gun.

[Creepn]

Did you not think i was referring to them as well? They hope he gets found innocent so the guy gets lynch mobbed.

Just sad tbh. One guy makes an irresponsible decision and we have to muddy things up the way we have.

Don't say "they". I never said that.

[Creepn]

Zimmerman just declined to testify.

Coward.

[CosmicCowboy]

smart. no need to. Prosecution hasn't proven their case.

[Creepn]

Judge Nelson declined a 2nd time to acquit Zimmerman saying that evidence provided supported 2nd degree murder.

[CosmicCowboy]

pffft. That's not what she said.

[101A]

What is somewhat stunning about this case is that each person's opinion of what happened is just that, an opinion. That will include, frankly, the members of the jury. It seems to me that the decision they make might very well boil down to who they think was yelling "help". That will boil down to which relative was more convincing, because the "experts" are at a loss. I don't know what happened that evening, whether this was murder, or self defense, and none of you do either. The only person who knows beyond any doubt is on trial.

The evidence presented by the prosecution has been limited. There is no smoking gun, no great eyewitness or CSI type revelation. They have presented their opinion of the events. Shouldn't be enough to convict. Honestly won't surprise me if it is.

[Creepn]

LMAO! Caught the gym witness in a bold face lie! He was asked if he was marketing Zimmerman for his self-defense classes to which he replies," Absolutely not!"

Link to advertisment page: https://twitter.com/TonyPipitone/status/355053230297858049/photo/1

[Fabbs]

Twunt judge rules Traybonz texts are inadmissable.
Fraid of the truth.

[elbamba]

LMAO at West begging Zimmerman not to take the stand and testify.

You see that CC? Lawyers so afraid to let Zimmerman take the stand and *gasps* tell the truth.

The judge was out of line. Defense was still making its case. The judge properly asked Zimmerman after Zimmerman Sr. testified and the defense said they would call no more witnesses. West was right to object and I have no doubt, even though this issue will not be appealed that an appeals court would indicate that the judge should wait to question the defendent until the close of all other witnesses in the defense. Any one sentence in a testimony could change the need for him to testify and then her questions to Zimmerman become completly unnecessary. It was bad form by the judge, sloppy in my opnion and I would have raised the same objection.

[Fabbs]

A young mother who lived in the gated community where Zimmerman shot Martin told jurors Wednesday the neighborhood watch volunteer helped comfort her after a home invasion by two young men left her frightened.

Olivia Bertalan said Zimmerman supplied her with a new lock for her sliding door and offered to open his own home to her after the incident, which happened about six months before Zimmerman’s fateful confrontation with Martin,. Although she said the two invaders were African-Americans in their late teens, there was no suggestion that Martin was involved. The testimony was instead apparently presented to show how seriously Zimmerman took his role as a community protector.

[boobie4three]

A young mother who lived in the gated community where Zimmerman shot Martin told jurors Wednesday the neighborhood watch volunteer helped comfort her after a home invasion by two young men left her frightened.

Olivia Bertalan said Zimmerman supplied her with a new lock for her sliding door and offered to open his own home to her after the incident, which happened about six months before Zimmerman’s fateful confrontation with Martin,. Although she said the two invaders were African-Americans in their late teens, there was no suggestion that Martin was involved. The testimony was instead apparently presented to show how seriously Zimmerman took his role as a community protector.



Powerful testimony to a jury full of women.

[101A]

Actually, since those were African American teens I would think this could actually help the prosecution; goes to both mindset and motive of GZ.

[CosmicCowboy]

Shocking. She actually called one for the defense.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

A young mother who lived in the gated community where Zimmerman shot Martin told jurors Wednesday the neighborhood watch volunteer helped comfort her after a home invasion by two young men left her frightened.

Olivia Bertalan said Zimmerman supplied her with a new lock for her sliding door and offered to open his own home to her after the incident, which happened about six months before Zimmerman’s fateful confrontation with Martin,. Although she said the two invaders were African-Americans in their late teens, there was no suggestion that Martin was involved. The testimony was instead apparently presented to show how seriously Zimmerman took his role as a community protector.

This is a direct quote from an article without sourcing. Poor form but good content.


Powerful testimony to a jury full of women.

This is typical emotional nonsense from the Zimmerman Defense Corps of Guero and Whitey.


Actually, since those were African American teens I would think this could actually help the prosecution; goes to both mindset and motive of GZ.

This is actual analysis. This speaks to concepts of law and how the issues raised in the article apply. Taking facts and events and applying them.

That is one thing that I get from ZDCGW, this is completely emotional from them. You get shit like:

slam dunk
powerful
owned
destroy
shredded

What you don't get is any sort of real analysis but instead emotional hyperbole. That just tells me that ZDCGW is basing their conclusions on an emotional and not analytical reasoning. They are to analysis as Rick Perry is to politics.

The closest I get to it not being so is CC claiming "by all accounts" of "independent lawyers" or other similar takes. Not only is the notion of "all" wrong but it speaks directly to the first quote in my sig. He also has a penchant for making claims that his emotional claims are justified but then expects you to look it up.

All in all it's hard to take the ZDCGW seriously.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Shocking. She actually called one for the defense.

Emotional nonsense.

[CosmicCowboy]

This is a direct quote from an article without sourcing. Poor form but good content.



This is typical emotional nonsense from the Zimmerman Defense Corps of Guero and Whitey.



This is actual analysis. This speaks to concepts of law and how the issues raised in the article apply. Taking facts and events and applying them.

That is one thing that I get from ZDCGW, this is completely emotional from them. You get shit like:

slam dunk
powerful
owned
destroy
shredded

What you don't get is any sort of real analysis but instead emotional hyperbole. That just tells me that ZDCGW is basing their conclusions on an emotional and not analytical reasoning. They are to analysis as Rick Perry is to politics.

The closest I get to it not being so is CC claiming "by all accounts" of "independent lawyers" or other similar takes. Not only is the notion of "all" wrong but it speaks directly to the first quote in my sig. He also has a penchant for making claims that his emotional claims are justified but then expects you to look it up.

All in all it's hard to take the ZDCGW seriously.

:lmao

You are so full of shit.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

And more emotional appeal. You are just proving my point. Giggling is not analysis.

[CosmicCowboy]

The trial testimonies have provided all the facts of the case and I have linked/copied/pasted a shitload of them. You are the one acting like the pompous emotional bitch.

I will say again:

The State had the burden to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that Zimmerman was guilty of second degree murder.

They have miserably failed to do that.

If you think differently YOU are the one being emotional and not rational.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

They have miserably failed to do that.

And he digs his hole deeper. It's like you cannot help yourself.

Quoting trial transcripts and following with emotional hyperbole is not analysis.

[CosmicCowboy]

And he digs his hole deeper. It's like you cannot help yourself.

GFY

The jury will get the case Friday afternoon.

They are going to find Zimmerman not guilty of 2nd degree murder.

The state prosecutors did the best they could with a shit case that should have never gone to trial. They simply didn't have the facts to back up the charge.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

GFY

The jury will get the case Friday afternoon.

They are going to find Zimmerman not guilty of 2nd degree murder.

The state prosucutors did the best they could with a shit case that should have never gone to trial. They simply didn't have the facts to back up the charge.

Now we get bluster. Bravo, CC. You have demonstrated you have little more than the mindset of a 12 year old boy.

[admiralsnackbar]

The State had the burden to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that Zimmerman was guilty of second degree murder.



I'll defer to anyone who possesses a law degree, but my understanding was that in death by self defense cases, the burden of proof is on the defendant.

[CosmicCowboy]

Hell, if they allow the jury to work on Saturday they will be home for Sunday dinner. It won't be hard to make up their minds.

[CosmicCowboy]

Now we get bluster. Bravo, CC. You have demonstrated you have little more than the mindset of a 12 year old boy.

$100 says not guilty. Put your money where your mouth is bluster boy.

[CosmicCowboy]

I'll defer to anyone who possesses a law degree, but my understanding was that in death by self defense cases, the burden of proof is on the defendant.

nope. Burden of proof is on the prosecution.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

If you would like to fill this page up demonstrating that you are little more than a posturing blowhard then we can continue to do this.

[CosmicCowboy]

nope. Burden of proof is on the prosecution to prove it wasn't.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

$100 says not guilty. Put your money where your mouth is bluster boy.

Betting makes no difference in predicting the outcome. This is just you being an emotional child.

[Fabbs]

This is a direct quote from an article without sourcing. Poor form but good content.
Sources of fiber for you:
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/high-fiber-foods/NU00582


This is actual analysis. This speaks to concepts of law and how the issues raised in the article apply.
Could just as easily be an actual analysis that the all women jury could be powerfully moved by the implied GZ mindset and motive of protecting mothers and children. The 6 may be well aware of how frustrating the police system is. By the time they are dispatched, often times criminal X has split. Some people would hail GZ as someone who is willing to get involved vs the sit back and do nothing types.

[CosmicCowboy]

If you would like to fill this page up demonstrating that you are little more than a posturing blowhard then we can continue to do this.

If you would like to continue to prove you are a fucking loudmouth emotional little pussy who is afraid to back up his (wrong) opinions we can continue to do this.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

nope. Burden of proof is on the prosecution.


In general, if you’re accused of a crime it’s up to the state to prove you are guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. But things work a little differently if you are pleading self defense.
Basically —

Step 1: The prosecutor must prove the elements of the underlying crime beyond a reasonable doubt — basically that you intentionally shot the guy. But if you are pleading self defense, you will have admitted that, so we go to step 2.

Step 2: Now you must present evidence from which the trier of fact could infer that your conduct met the applicable legal standard justifying the use of lethal force in self defense. Depending on the State, you may not have to prove it, i. e., you may not have to convince the jury. But you will have to at least present a prima facie case, i. e., sufficient evidence which, if true, establishes that you have satisfied all legal elements necessary to justify your conduct.

Step 3: Now it’s the prosecutor’s burden to attack your claim and convince the jury beyond a reasonable doubt that you did not act in justified self defense.

http://www.corneredcat.com/article/legal-concerns/castle-doctrine-and-stand-your-ground-laws/

Both parties have a burden of proof. FL statues obviously are going to be key but blustering proves nothing.

[tlongII]

I'll defer to anyone who possesses a law degree, but my understanding was that in death by self defense cases, the burden of proof is on the defendant.

I believe that is incorrect, but I'm no lawyer.

[CosmicCowboy]

Betting makes no difference in predicting the outcome. This is just you being an emotional child.

Proves you don't even believe your own bullshit. If you are so sure then take my money. According to you it would be as easy as stealing from a 12 year old.

Bitch.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

If you would like to continue to prove you are a fucking loudmouth emotional little pussy who is afraid to back up his (wrong) opinions we can continue to do this.

Really, you are going to throw out juvenile insults that clearly indicate that you are upset by me and then try and make that claim? You really think that a third party reading this is going to buy this?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Proves you don't even believe your own bullshit. If you are so sure then take my money. According to you it would be as easy as stealing from a 12 year old.

Bitch.

Declining to place bets demonstrates that, huh?

[CosmicCowboy]

Declining to place bets demonstrates that, huh?

Demonstrates you don't believe in your own bullshit.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Demonstrates you don't believe in your own bullshit.

Oh so placing bets demonstrates belief in the world you live in, huh. That speaks to you and not me.

I have no doubt you believe what you say but I am talking about the basis for said belief. For you it's about emotion, bluster and money apparently.

[KingsFanWithoutName]

In general, if you’re accused of a crime it’s up to the state to prove you are guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. But things work a little differently if you are pleading self defense.
Basically —

Step 1: The prosecutor must prove the elements of the underlying crime beyond a reasonable doubt — basically that you intentionally shot the guy. But if you are pleading self defense, you will have admitted that, so we go to step 2.

Step 2: Now you must present evidence from which the trier of fact could infer that your conduct met the applicable legal standard justifying the use of lethal force in self defense. Depending on the State, you may not have to prove it, i. e., you may not have to convince the jury. But you will have to at least present a prima facie case, i. e., sufficient evidence which, if true, establishes that you have satisfied all legal elements necessary to justify your conduct.




Step 3: Now it’s the prosecutor’s burden to attack your claim and convince the jury beyond a reasonable doubt that you did not act in justified self defense.

This is a direct quote from an article without sourcing. Poor form but good content.

[CosmicCowboy]

Oh so placing bets demonstrates belief in the world you live in, huh. That speaks to you and not me.

I have no doubt you believe what you say but I am talking about the basis for said belief. For you it's about emotion, bluster and money apparently.

After all the evidence has been presented anyone that still believes that those six jurors will unanimously find Zimmerman guilty of murder 2 is incapable of rational thought.

And you accuse ME of being the emotional one...:lol

You just suck on SO many levels.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

After all the evidence has been presented anyone that still believes that those six jurors will unanimously find Zimmerman guilty of murder 2 is incapable of rational thought.

And you accuse ME of being the emotional one...:lol

You just suck on SO many levels.


Translation:

No one should believe this or insult

I know you are but what am I

Insult

Such insight and analysis.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

This is a direct quote from an article without sourcing. Poor form but good content.

Good call. I fixed it.

[CosmicCowboy]

Such insight and analysis.

:lmao

So Mr. insight and analysis, explain to me why those six jurors are going to unanimously find Zimmerman guilty of murder two.

The facts of the case simply don't justify it.

[CosmicCowboy]

And the little bitch runs away. Nice.

[Trill Clinton]

just heard cowardman didn't take the stand today....not surprised at all.

[CosmicCowboy]

just heard cowardman didn't take the stand today....not surprised at all.

He would have been crazy too. State clearly hasn't proven their case. No reason to give them a chance to try to discredit him on cross. It's just good legal advice. The prosecution gave the jury multiple chances to hear Zimmerman's side of the story by playing all the interviews which did nothing but allow the jury to see how the physical evidence and eye witness testimony matched his story.

[Trill Clinton]

how to survive a cowardman attack: 1) don't look suspicious, 2) tell creepy watchman where you're going, 3) if being stalked or followed, don't run and 4) don't fight back.

[Trill Clinton]

He would have been crazy too. State clearly hasn't proven their case. No reason to give them a chance to try to discredit him on cross. It's just good legal advice.

yea that's true. took the casey anthony route and let the lack of evidence do the talking for her.

[CosmicCowboy]

how to survive a cowardman attack: 1) don't look suspicious, 2) tell creepy watchman where you're going, 3) if being stalked or followed, don't run and 4) don't fight back.

I knew you would figure it out eventually...:p:

[Trill Clinton]

oh forgot number 5) don't be black.

[CosmicCowboy]

I'm pretty sure Zimmerman would have shot a white/asian/chicano/puerto rican/haitian/hawaiian/etc. sitting on his chest doing MMA ground and pound. Don't take it personally.

Your inferiority complex is showing...:p:

[tlongII]

how to survive a cowardman attack: 1) don't look suspicious, 2) tell creepy watchman where you're going, 3) if being stalked or followed, don't run and 4) don't fight back.

Really dude? You're better than that.

[Trill Clinton]

I'm pretty sure Zimmerman would have shot a white/asian/chicano/puerto rican/haitian/hawaiian/etc. sitting on his chest doing MMA ground and pound. Don't take it personally.

Your inferiority complex is showing...:p:

ok

[Trill Clinton]

Really dude? You're better than that.

what? if you want to survive a stranger approaching you in the middle of night, don't fight back. if you do, you might lose your life. just acquiesce to the strangers demands and you'll live to see another day.

[tlongII]

what? if you want to survive a stranger approaching you in the middle of night, don't fight back. if you do, you might lose your life. just acquiesce to the strangers demands and you'll live to see another day.

Fighting back implies that someone else started a fight. That doesn't appear to be the case here.

[Trill Clinton]

Fighting back implies that someone else started a fight. That doesn't appear to be the case here.

that's because trayvon didn't follow rules 1 and 2. if he would have, he would be alive to tell his side of the story. he shouldn't have looked suspicious and he should have just told cowardman where he lived, he was going and told him he was alone with his little brother, he wouldn't have had to fight for his life.

[CosmicCowboy]

Fighting back implies that someone else started a fight. That doesn't appear to be the case here.

See, there you go again TLong bringing up those pesky facts. In Trills world eye witnesses don't count. Trill believes DeeDees story that she "knows" Trayvon was attacked by Zimmerman because if Trayvon was planning to whip that creepy crackers ass he would have called her and told her before he did it.

[Trill Clinton]

zimmeran saw tray while he was in his vehicle and was convinced tray was suspicious and on drugs. if tray would have fought zimmerman at his car i could see how he started the fight. a creepy watchmen got out the vehicle, followed and stalked a 17 year old kid and the kid reacted accordingly. i just wish tray wasn't looking suspicious that night, maybe he'd be alive.

[AntiChrist]

So, FuzzyLumpshits wants analysis?


http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=216174&page=43&p=6743059&viewfull=1#post6743059

[mingus]

Trayvon acted accordingly?

LOL. No. Accordingly implies he acted the right way. But he got shot. He got shot because he acted rashly.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

:lmao

So Mr. insight and analysis, explain to me why those six jurors are going to unanimously find Zimmerman guilty of murder two.

The facts of the case simply don't justify it.

I am not interested in predictions. Murder 2 requires proof of malice under Florida law. I personally do not think that is the case. At the same time I could see jurors not buying Zimmermans account and finding the contradictions go one way and convict him of murder.

What I think you guys are ignoring is that manslaughter is in play. I could very easily see the jurors think as I do and think Zimmerman is lying on multiple accounts about the confrontation just as he lied during the bail hearing. Given that, I believe they could say that he has not met his burden of proving self defense and find him criminally negligent a la manslaughter.

However given all this I have no way of knowing what a group of women of multiple races from Florida that I have never met much less know well enough to make any claims.


And the little bitch runs away. Nice.

Some of us cannot sit around at work fucking around on the internet while our employees work in unsafe conditions.

[Wild Cobra]

The ME Shiping Bao? Poor guy got shredded by all accounts. You Traybonz supporters wanted go with what this ME said, the can is open for his saying marijuana could have altered his state of mind. That gonna lead to the makins of "lean" and oh no.
No shit, especially since this ME didn't actually examine the Zimmerman. Only went by the photos.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

So, FuzzyLumpshits wants analysis?


http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=216174&page=43&p=6743059&viewfull=1#post6743059

First quote in my sig. Think about it.

In FL, the presumption is not that the killing was in self defense. Zimmerman has to prove that. There is no doubt that Zimmerman shot and killed Martin. The defense then has to prove self defense was the reason. Prima facia it should be obvious that this is the case.

This guy's analysis assumes the wrong presumption and as such what follows does not follow.

[boobie4three]

Mark O'Mara Presser July 10 2013


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=0USAp3SX3Eg

[Wild Cobra]

Are you talking about the quack that Angela Corey brought in? She wasn't even the ME that did the autopsy and owed Corey for her job after she had been fired from her previous position as ME in another county.

And I presume you know that the extent or severity of injuries is irrelevant to self defense...correct?

Yep, it's laughable that people hang on to an experts words that did not examine him.

Just how ignorant can someone be? I don't watch the news much, are the M$M's leaving this important tidbit out?

[AntiChrist]

First quote in my sig. Think about it.

In FL, the presumption is not that the killing was in self defense. Zimmerman has to prove that. There is no doubt that Zimmerman shot and killed Martin. The defense then has to prove self defense was the reason. Prima facia it should be obvious that this is the case.

This guy's analysis assumes the wrong presumption and as such what follows does not follow.


Dan Abrams is a legal analyst, but you probably know more. Lol

[Wild Cobra]

Creepn is just trolling us. He can't be THAT stupid.

Or can he?

He's got to be a troll.

Nobody can be that stupid.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Fighting back implies that someone else started a fight. That doesn't appear to be the case here.

This is where the rubber meets the road. FOR YOU, that doesn't appear to be the case. TO ME, I think that because the wounds on the back of his head are not consistent with Zimmerman's account, nor does his basis for getting out of the car make one lick of sense, and his proven deception in his bond hearing makes what you think 'appear to be the case' irrelevant. Zimmerman has lied from the get go to cover his ass. That means he doesn't meet the burden of proof for self defense and while he may have no killed without malice he did kill on unreasonable grounds.

But that is the point. As someone else pointed out, this is our opinions. You guys just bluster as if it's some certainty and jerk each other off.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Dan Abrams is a legal analyst, but you probably know more. Lol

I've looked up the statutes. You going to let him do his thinking or are you actually going to address my rebuttal of presumption. First quote fits you to a T.

Do you deny that Abrams argument depends on that? I will be more than happy to point the sentence that makes it clear.

[Wild Cobra]

just heard cowardman didn't take the stand today....not surprised at all.
No need to since the prosecution cannot make a valid case.

/case

[Trill Clinton]

Some of us cannot sit around at work fucking around on the internet while our employees work in unsafe conditions.


:lmao

[Trill Clinton]

a 17 yr old kid being followed and stalked by a armed stranger not thinking rationally....how dare he!!!!

[AntiChrist]

I've looked up the statutes. You going to let him do his thinking or are you actually going to address my rebuttal of presumption. First quote fits you to a T.

Do you deny that Abrams argument depends on that? I will be more than happy to point the sentence that makes it clear.


That blog you cited? Lulz

[AntiChrist]

Did Trayvon have any bruises on him besides his knuckles?

[elbamba]

I'll defer to anyone who possesses a law degree, but my understanding was that in death by self defense cases, the burden of proof is on the defendant.

In most jurisdictions you would be right; however, in Florida, the prosecution has the burden to show that it was not self defense. I think the prosecution has done a bad job in this regard. They should have gone for manslaughter from the beginning. Truth is they have not really shown evidence for this either. They tried to show evidence of second degree murder and the defense just had better evidence.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

That blog you cited? Lulz

That and attorneys that I have talked to. I have a couple very close friends that are attorneys. Unfortunately, I cannot link the law library for you unless you want to pay a good chunk of change to be able to access it.

Here's another:




Florida State Attorney Angela Corey announced on Thursday that George Zimmerman had been arrested and would be charged with second degree murder. During that press conference, a reporter asked her about the possible implications of Florida's "Stand Your Ground" law.

In response, she explained that the law provides Zimmerman with an "affirmative defense," and that if it was raised, it would be dealt with in court. She further vowed to fight the "affirmative defense."

What's an affirmative defense?

An affirmative defense is a justification for the defendant having committed the accused crime. It differs from other defenses because the defendant admits that he did, in fact, break the law. He is simply arguing that he has a good reason for having done so, and therefore should be excused from all criminal liability.

In criminal trials, the most common affirmative defenses include self-defense, defense of others and insanity. Duress, entrapment and involuntary intoxication are used less often.

To see how one of these defenses works, let's look at the pending Trayvon Martin trial. George Zimmerman will undoubtedly argue that he acted in self-defense as defined by Florida's "Stand Your Ground" law. There's absolutely no question that he killed Martin. If he can successfully prove he acted in self-defense, the law says he cannot be convicted of murder. He will go free.

http://blogs.findlaw.com/blotter/2012/04/what-is-an-affirmative-defense.html

[FuzzyLumpkins]

An affirmative defense is also allowed under rules of Criminal Procedure. For example, a defendant accused of assault may claim to have been intoxicated or insane, to have struck out in Self-Defense, or to have had an alibi for the night in question. Any one of these affirmative defenses must be asserted by showing that there are facts in addition to the ones in the indictment or information charging the defendant and that those additional facts are legally sufficient to excuse the defendant.

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Affirmative+Defense

[elbamba]

One thing to note after the cross exam of the self defense witness. The prosecution essentially conceded that Martin was on top of Zimmerman. Their way of combatting was to pull out the dummy and give alternatives to how Zimmerman could have been on the bottom and still not had sufficient grounds for self defense because Martin might have been getting up when Zimmerman shot him.

If I was the defense I would ask the jury why the prosecution would spend a week trying to give witnesses who were not sure testify that Zimmerman might have been on top. Then concede that it was Martin. Make it look like the prosecution is trying to confuse the jury with random theories unsupported by the facts.

I would then point out that the prosecution is conceding that they do not know what happened. The fact that they suggested that Martin might have been getting up means you must consider that martin might not have been getting up. That is the very definition of reasonable doubt.

[elbamba]

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Affirmative+Defense

In most jurisdictions the burden is on the defendant. For whatever reason, that is not the case in Florida.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

In most jurisdictions the burden is on the defendant. For whatever reason, that is not the case in Florida.

I just gave a link indicating that you are wrong. If you want to continue believing the contrary anyway then go right ahead.

[Bill_Brasky]

Could be the one that attacked the guy with the gun.

Or it could be a guy with a gun who's supposed to be responsible putting himself in a position he had no business being in and then panicking like the inexperienced twit he is.

[AntiChrist]

http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/06/zimmerman-case-the-five-principles-of-the-law-of-self-defense/

[mingus]

a 17 yr old kid being followed and stalked by a armed stranger not thinking rationally....how dare he!!!!

Even though he was armed and stalking, GZ meant no physical harm. Know what happens when you wrongly assume someone does mean physical harm to you and you initiate violence? You get shot, and the guy who kills/shoots you can reasonably claim self-defense.

The general ethical principle that you are advocating in this particular situation is the same ethics that got Trayvon killed, and probably gets shitloads of blacks in the inner cities across the nation killed. Physical altercation should be last resort, unless you want to end up dead or in prison.

[AntiChrist]

Or it could be a guy with a gun who's supposed to be responsible putting himself in a position he had no business being in and then panicking like the inexperienced twit he is.

Could be, but that doesn't make him a murderer. I'd be willing to bet that GZ wishes the whole thing never happened.

[Wild Cobra]

I have always used physical altercations as a last resort, when other means do not solve the problem at hand.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/06/zimmerman-case-the-five-principles-of-the-law-of-self-defense/

From your source with the link where you got to that page which in typical Darrin fashion was completely ignored:


Florida has a number of specific statutes relevant to self defense (not all states do, relying instead on case law), the most central of which for this trial will be: 776.013. Home protection; use of deadly force; presumption of fear of death or great bodily harm.

Also, FL 782.02. Justifiable use of deadly force

It seems likely that given the facts of the case the prosecution will also try to apply Florida’s aggressor statute: 776.041. Use of force by aggressor.

Finally, I expect we’ll also see the defense raise Florida’s immunity statute at trial: 776.032. Immunity from criminal prosecution and civil action for justifiable use of force.
The Criminal Charge Against Zimmerman

The above listed self-defense related statutes will find application in establishing Zimmerman’s affirmative defense of self-defense. We do not even get to that point, however, unless the State has managed to prove each and every element, beyond a reasonable doubt, of the crime with which Zimmerman has been charged.

http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/06/zimmerman-case-the-five-principles-of-the-law-of-self-defense/

[Bill_Brasky]

Could be, but that doesn't make him a murderer. I'd be willing to bet that GZ wishes the whole thing never happened.

I don't think he's a murderer either. It's not like he premeditated this. He's just a dummy. It's criminal negligence/possibly manslaughter.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Even though he was armed and stalking, GZ meant no physical harm. Know what happens when you wrongly assume someone does mean physical harm to you and you initiate violence? You get shot, and the guy who kills/shoots you can reasonably claim self-defense.

The general ethical principle that you are advocating in this particular situation is the same ethics that got Trayvon killed, and probably gets shitloads of blacks in the inner cities across the nation killed. Physical altercation should be last resort, unless you want to end up dead or in prison.

Not according to the law. If the jury believes that Zimmerman initiated the confrontation and that he ws full of shit about getting out of the car to look at a street sign that wasn't even there in a neighborhood he lived in with three streets then he is fucked.

[mingus]

I have always used physical altercations as a last resort, when other means do not solve the problem at hand.

Exactly, and you know what? The more people and the media paint the picture that TM's behavior was in perfect line are the same people who are propagating a message that will get a shitload more people killed. Both GZ and TM acted like morons, and so long as people ignore the latter part, they'll just fuel more racial hate and crime.

[AntiChrist]

Is there ANY evidence that GZ started the fight? Would seem plausible if TM had some injury besides bruised knuckles.