The Trayvon Martin Case

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Is there ANY evidence that GZ started the fight? Would seem plausible if TM had some injury besides bruised knuckles.

The law states confrontation. Lying about why you got out of the car would be a good indicator for me.

[mingus]

N/M

[mingus]

The law states confrontation. Lying about why you got out of the car would be a good indicator for me.

He could have lied about getting out of the care and not started the confrontation though.

[Trill Clinton]

Even though he was armed and stalking, GZ meant no physical harm. Know what happens when you wrongly assume someone does mean physical harm to you and you initiate violence? You get shot, and the guy who kills/shoots you can reasonably claim self-defense.

The general ethical principle that you are advocating in this particular situation is the same ethics that got Trayvon killed, and probably gets shitloads of blacks in the inner cities across the nation killed. Physical altercation should be last resort, unless you want to end up dead or in prison.

okay, here is my problem with this entire case. the majority of people who think cowardman is innocent always say "trayvon should have done, x, y, z" i never see anyone say what the grown man who applied for the police academy, went to college and took self defense courses, had a father who is a magistrate judge, took 18 hours of mma, should have done. its never "zimmerman never should have done x, y, z..." people have sided with him for a very sick and evil reason and the thought of it makes my stomach turn. they shift all the blame on the teenager.

we want to place all the responsibility on a 17 year old kid who was put in a situation above his limitations. no 17 year old kid should ever have to go through what trayvon went through that night and yet we expect him to think like us grown men. its easy to say what a person should have done when you have never been put in that situation, its crazier that we expect a 17 year old kid walking home with candy and tea to process all that information and make a smart decision. he tried to run away when he saw he was being followed and to me that is what any kid would do. as far as the confrontation, considering cowardman's violent past, i take his word with a grain of salt. i put the onus on him. he should have stayed in the car and waited for backup, but his "they always get away" mentality got the best of him.

the self dense law in florida is for cowards in my opinion. it makes it okay for a person to initiate a fight and if they are getting their ass handed to them, they can use deadly force if they think their life is in danger. wack law and i hope something is done about it before more innocent lives are taken by cowards like zimmerman.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

He could have lied about getting out of the care and not started the confrontation though.

He admitted to following Martin and the dispatcher told him he didn't need to do that. There was no street sign where he got out of the car and the fight took place 35 feet away.

[scroteface]

okay, here is my problem with this entire case. the majority of people who think cowardman is innocent always say "trayvon should have done, x, y, z" i never see anyone say what the grown man who applied for the police academy, went to college and took self defense courses, had a father who is a magistrate judge, took 18 hours of mma, should have done. its never "zimmerman never should have done x, y, z..." people have sided with him for a very sick and evil reason and the thought of it makes my stomach turn. they shift all the blame on the teenager.

we want to place all the responsibility on a 17 year old kid who was put in a situation above his limitations. no 17 year old kid should ever have to go through what trayvon went through that night and yet we expect him to think like us grown men. its easy to say what a person should have done when you have never been put in that situation, its crazier that we expect a 17 year old kid walking home with candy and tea to process all that information and make a smart decision. he tried to run away when he saw he was being followed and to me that is what any kid would do. as far as the confrontation, considering cowardman's violent past, i take his word with a grain of salt. i put the onus on him. he should have stayed in the car and waited for backup, but his "they always get away" mentality got the best of him.

the self dense law in florida is for cowards in my opinion. it makes it okay for a person to initiate a fight and if they are getting their ass handed to them, they can use deadly force if they think their life is in danger. wack law and i hope something is done about it before more innocent lives are taken by cowards like zimmerman.

know your role, coon

[Trill Clinton]

avi check

[AntiChrist]

The law states confrontation. Lying about why you got out of the car would be a good indicator for me.

Great logic

[AntiChrist]

know your role, coon

Dude?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

He admitted to following Martin and the dispatcher told him he didn't need to do that. There was no street sign where he got out of the car and the fight took place 35 feet away.


Great logic

Oh and he told the dispatcher that Martin run away before he went to go follow him.

[AntiChrist]

avi check

Nice

[AntiChrist]

Fuzzy continuing to bring the weak logic

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Fuzzy continuing to bring the weak logic

Darrin once again failing to demonstrate how.

Martin runs away, Zimmerman follows him against the dispatchers recommendation, gets out of his car for a reason that he lied to cover up, and then went 12 yards away where the confrontation took place. You take from that Martin caused the confrontation huh?

[tlongII]

He admitted to following Martin and the dispatcher told him he didn't need to do that. There was no street sign where he got out of the car and the fight took place 35 feet away.

You are assuming he knew no street sign was there. He may have been looking for one.

[AntiChrist]

Darrin once again failing to demonstrate how.

Martin runs away, Zimmerman follows him against the dispatchers recommendation, gets out of his car for a reason that he lied to cover up, and then went 12 yards away where the confrontation took place. You take from that Martin caused the confrontation huh?

If someone gets out of their vehicle and axes you a question, you have no choice but to go MMA on that creepy ass crackah.

[mingus]

okay, here is my problem with this entire case. the majority of people who think cowardman is innocent always say "trayvon should have done, x, y, z" i never see anyone say what the grown man who applied for the police academy, went to college and took self defense courses, had a father who is a magistrate judge, took 18 hours of mma, should have done. its never "zimmerman never should have done x, y, z..." people have sided with him for a very sick and evil reason and the thought of it makes my stomach turn. they shift all the blame on the teenager.

we want to place all the responsibility on a 17 year old kid who was put in a situation above his limitations. no 17 year old kid should ever have to go through what trayvon went through that night and yet we expect him to think like us grown men. its easy to say what a person should have done when you have never been put in that situation, its crazier that we expect a 17 year old kid walking home with candy and tea to process all that information and make a smart decision. he tried to run away when he saw he was being followed and to me that is what any kid would do. as far as the confrontation, considering cowardman's violent past, i take his word with a grain of salt. i put the onus on him. he should have stayed in the car and waited for backup, but his "they always get away" mentality got the best of him.

the self dense law in florida is for cowards in my opinion. it makes it okay for a person to initiate a fight and if they are getting their ass handed to them, they can use deadly force if they think their life is in danger. wack law and i hope something is done about it before more innocent lives are taken by cowards like zimmerman.

I have a problem with that too, which is why maybe 10 pages back or so whenever I first posted in this thread I basically laid out why both GZ and TM are responsible and acted unintelligently and how GZ should pay dearly for the way he acted and didn't act. I hope he rots in prison for a while.

[InRareForm]

GZ deserves sometime in the Jail Cell tbh...

[mingus]

He admitted to following Martin and the dispatcher told him he didn't need to do that. There was no street sign where he got out of the car and the fight took place 35 feet away.

I wonder what the scope of the word "confronting" is in Florida law. In its broadest sense the confrontation started once GZ started following him in his car. It could be defined more narrow than that though.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

If someone gets out of their vehicle and axes you a question, you have no choice but to go MMA on that creepy ass crackah.

When its night time, I run away from you and you follow me in your car and then get out your car and track me down for 30 yards you bet I will get hostile. It was clear Martin was trying to get away from him and Zimmerman pursued. All you are doing is leaving out the rest of the content. Who knows what was said but Zimmerman had no business chasing a teenager at night that is trying to get away from him.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

You are assuming he knew no street sign was there. He may have been looking for one.

Really? You have trouble figuring out where a street sign is? How about the end of the street. Nevermind that during the dispatch call he was calling out street names or that he lived in the neighborhood or that the neighborhood had only three streets.

Then there is his account of him going to the store when he told the dispatcher that he was coming from the far side of his house from the store.

And oh so conveniently he claims that Martin said he was going to kill him and that is why he shot him.

Its pretty obvious that he lies and he knew damn well what the requirements for self defense were. He took the test to join the police academy as well as several criminology classes that covered that topic which once again he conveniently forgot.

Nevermind that he lied to get out of trouble before when he hid the donations that he was receiving so he could get out on his own recognizance.

There is absolutely no reason to trust this guy and he already admitted to following Martin.

[AntiChrist]

It doesn't matter that GZ was following TM.

[CosmicCowboy]

Does Fuzzylogic have any theories on what Trayvon was doing wandering around in the rain for the 40 minutes between the time he left the 7-11 and when he was shot?

[Trill Clinton]

GZ deserves sometime in the Jail Cell tbh...

that's all i want. he should be behind bars for his wrecklessness.

[Trill Clinton]

what i been preachin' this entire time:

What about Martin's right to 'stand his ground?'

(CNN) -- Like many people, I've been riveted by the George Zimmerman trial. I call it "the George Zimmerman trial" because that's what it is, but the more I watch, the more I wonder: Should it be renamed "the Trayvon Martin trial?"
I'm not just talking about some of the media's tabloid-like focus on Martin's background, his personal history, his school records and -- outside the courtroom -- the toxicology report. I'm talking about an aspect of the case that never comes up in the media coverage, one that I would argue is key.
This murder trial, in and out of the courtroom, has been boiled down to one question: Was Zimmerman in fear for his life and thus justified in defending himself by shooting and killing Martin?
It has been framed this way -- in terms of Zimmerman's mortal fear -- since the shooting in 2012.
Some people have forgotten that Zimmerman was not even arrested initially. It took more than a month for the special prosecutor to bring the second-degree murder charge. And if not for mass protests across the country, he might not be the defendant in a murder trial at all.
The question that has not surfaced in the courtroom -- the elephant in the room -- is this: Did Martin fear for his life after being followed and confronted by a stranger while going to the store to buy candy and a soft drink? Was he, Martin, justified in standing his ground and defending himself when this stranger, an apparent stalker, approached him in a threatening manner?
Zimmerman didn't identify himself and never said he was part of the neighborhood watch group.
Think about it: We're told over and over that if Zimmerman was afraid of Martin. According to Florida law, he had the right to put a bullet in the chamber of his concealed handgun, get out of his car after being told not to by the 911 dispatcher and follow and confront Martin and shoot him to death.
At the same time, we are told that Martin, who had far greater reason to fear Zimmerman, practically and for reasons of American history, did not have the right to confront his stalker, stand his ground and defend himself, including by using his fists. We are told that this was entirely unjustified and by doing so, Martin justified his own execution.
The phrases "stand your ground" and "self-defense" have been repeated endlessly by anchors, pundits, analysts and experts, but rarely applied to Martin.
How could this be? Why is this other question ignored? Surely it will come up as we approach the trial, I thought. But it hasn't. What's going on here? How can the Florida law apply only to Zimmerman and not to Martin?
I remembered the sharp, sometimes bitter commentary provoked by Spike Lee's 1989 film "Do the Right Thing," particularly in reaction to its climactic scenes, when the police murder a black teenager and Lee's character throws a trash can through the window of the white-owned pizza place.
Years after the movie came out, Lee told an interviewer (http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2009/jun/28/us-do-right-thing-anniversary-062809/all/), "White people still ask me why Mookie threw the can through the window. ...Twenty years later, they're still asking me that."
"No black person ever, in 20 years, no person of color has ever asked me why," he said.
This speak volumes about race and power relations in this country.
Here's what I think: Assuming Martin did engage Zimmerman physically, perhaps if the teen had hit back a little bit harder, perhaps if he had been able to prevent Zimmerman from grabbing his concealed and loaded gun and perhaps if witnesses had come to Martin's aid, then maybe he would be alive today. That's speculation.
One thing I feel sure of is that if Martin, in fear for his life, had used Zimmerman's own gun to shoot and possibly kill his attacker, when the police arrived on the scene, they would not have failed to charge him with murder.
Why hasn't the prosecution team used Florida law to argue strongly for Martin's right of self-defense, his right to stand his ground against a stalker? Why not turn the tables on Zimmerman's exclusive claim to that argument?
It will be interesting to see whether this question even gets posed for the jury at all. It certainly will be front and center as this case is tried by the jury of history. And future generations will likely puzzle over how the term "racial profiling" could have been banned by the judge before the trial even began.
This country's racial history, the list of names, like Sean Bell, Amadou Diallo, Oscar Grant and other victims of "deadly force" (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0967513626/qid=1013717747/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/104-1373126-4150315)by the police—these represent an even bigger Elephant in the Room.
They may have been ruled irrelevant in the courtroom, but they are certainly relevant to those who seek justice in this society.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/11/opinion/francis-zimmerman-trial/index.html?hpt=hp_t4

[boutons_deux]

TRMS had 3 prosecutors on last night. They made great points for 2nd degree murder conviction

Z went out loaded for bear, carrying a gun, ready to shoot (to kill).

He showed clear animus towards young black males when reporting to 911: "punk assholes" "fucking niggars"

He was clearly the aggressor getting out of his truck to go after M.

otoh, M did nothing wrong other than Walking While Black, Young, Hoodied (in the rain).

But the prosecutors did say the prosecutors missed lots of opportunities. iow, incompetent.

[AntiChrist]

TRMS had 3 prosecutors on last night. They made great points for 2nd degree murder conviction

Z went out loaded for bear, carrying a gun, ready to shoot (to kill).

He showed clear animus towards young black males when reporting to 911: "punk assholes" "fucking niggars"

He was clearly the aggressor getting out of his truck to go after M.

otoh, M did nothing wrong other than Walking While Black, Young, Hoodied (in the rain).

But the prosecutors did say the prosecutors missed lots of opportunities. iow, incompetent.


Liar

"loaded for bear" :lmao

[BradLohaus]

West vs. Nelson. Child abuse might be a charge now. Somebody post the youtube of this later.

[BradLohaus]

Nelson completely hates West BTW

[BradLohaus]

And v.v

[boutons_deux]

Liar

"loaded for bear" :lmao

I was wrong, you're right. Z was "loaded for niggar"

[BradLohaus]

The thing about Martin using self defense is, Z gets to use it right back as long as he didn't commit a crime first.

[boutons_deux]

The thing about Martin using self defense is, Z gets to use it right back as long as he didn't commit a crime first.

it's not 2 way. M was doing nothing, saw that he was being stalked by Z (who was armed and looking for asshole punks and fucking niggars), "perceived (accurately) a threat" and went on Stand Your Ground offense as best defense when Z came after him on foot.

[CosmicCowboy]

it's not 2 way. M was doing nothing, saw that he was being stalked by Z (who was armed and looking for asshole punks and fucking niggars), "perceived (accurately) a threat" and went on Stand Your Ground offense as best defense when Z came after him on foot.


:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

[BradLohaus]

it's not 2 way.

Racist.

[elbamba]

I just gave a link indicating that you are wrong. If you want to continue believing the contrary anyway then go right ahead.

Allow me to respond to your legal dictionary reference with Florida case law, which I have shepardized to verify that it is good case law:

Our reading of Lane v. State, supra, convinces us that Florida courts are in line with the majority holding, in essence, that HN2the burden of proving guilt beyond a reasonable doubt never shifts from the state. See also, McDaniel v. State, Fla.App.1965, 179 So.2d 576; Burnias v. State, Fla.App.1966, 190 So. 2d 612. This standard broadly includes the requirement that the state prove that the defendant did not act in self-defense beyond a reasonable doubt. Bolin v. State, 297 So.2d 2d 317, 319 (Fla. 3d DCA 1974).

In a self-defense case, it is our opinion that a general instruction covering the burden of proving guilt beyond and to the exclusion of a reasonable doubt, which rests upon [**7] the state, is sufficient. Bolin v. State, 297 So.2d 317, 320 (Fla. 3d DCA 1974).

The jury instructions in this case correctly instructed the jury as to the elements of self-defense. See Jones v. State, 13 So. 3d 139 (Fla. 5th DCA 2009) (holding that the standard jury instruction on the justifiable use of deadly force did not shift the burden of proof to the defendant); cf. Fields v. State, 988 So. 2d 1185, 1190 (Fla. 5th DCA 2008). Mosansky v. State, 33 So. 3d 756, 759 (Fla. 1st DCA 2010).

[elbamba]

Darrin once again failing to demonstrate how.

Martin runs away, Zimmerman follows him against the dispatchers recommendation, gets out of his car for a reason that he lied to cover up, and then went 12 yards away where the confrontation took place. You take from that Martin caused the confrontation huh?

You are misstating the facts. Martin runs away, Zimmerman exits the car and follows. The dispatcher then asks "are you following him" ZImmerman says yes, Dispatcher then says, "we don't need you to follow him". There is no order and reasonable minds could disagree as to if this is even a recommendation. He is simply telling Zimmerman that he does not need to follow Martin. Zimmerman says okay and tells the dispatcher where to meet him.

Facts matter and you should at least get them right.

[elbamba]

what i been preachin' this entire time:

What about Martin's right to 'stand his ground?'

(CNN) -- Like many people, I've been riveted by the George Zimmerman trial. I call it "the George Zimmerman trial" because that's what it is, but the more I watch, the more I wonder: Should it be renamed "the Trayvon Martin trial?"
I'm not just talking about some of the media's tabloid-like focus on Martin's background, his personal history, his school records and -- outside the courtroom -- the toxicology report. I'm talking about an aspect of the case that never comes up in the media coverage, one that I would argue is key.
This murder trial, in and out of the courtroom, has been boiled down to one question: Was Zimmerman in fear for his life and thus justified in defending himself by shooting and killing Martin?
It has been framed this way -- in terms of Zimmerman's mortal fear -- since the shooting in 2012.
Some people have forgotten that Zimmerman was not even arrested initially. It took more than a month for the special prosecutor to bring the second-degree murder charge. And if not for mass protests across the country, he might not be the defendant in a murder trial at all.
The question that has not surfaced in the courtroom -- the elephant in the room -- is this: Did Martin fear for his life after being followed and confronted by a stranger while going to the store to buy candy and a soft drink? Was he, Martin, justified in standing his ground and defending himself when this stranger, an apparent stalker, approached him in a threatening manner?
Zimmerman didn't identify himself and never said he was part of the neighborhood watch group.
Think about it: We're told over and over that if Zimmerman was afraid of Martin. According to Florida law, he had the right to put a bullet in the chamber of his concealed handgun, get out of his car after being told not to by the 911 dispatcher and follow and confront Martin and shoot him to death.
At the same time, we are told that Martin, who had far greater reason to fear Zimmerman, practically and for reasons of American history, did not have the right to confront his stalker, stand his ground and defend himself, including by using his fists. We are told that this was entirely unjustified and by doing so, Martin justified his own execution.
The phrases "stand your ground" and "self-defense" have been repeated endlessly by anchors, pundits, analysts and experts, but rarely applied to Martin.
How could this be? Why is this other question ignored? Surely it will come up as we approach the trial, I thought. But it hasn't. What's going on here? How can the Florida law apply only to Zimmerman and not to Martin?
I remembered the sharp, sometimes bitter commentary provoked by Spike Lee's 1989 film "Do the Right Thing," particularly in reaction to its climactic scenes, when the police murder a black teenager and Lee's character throws a trash can through the window of the white-owned pizza place.
Years after the movie came out, Lee told an interviewer (http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2009/jun/28/us-do-right-thing-anniversary-062809/all/), "White people still ask me why Mookie threw the can through the window. ...Twenty years later, they're still asking me that."
"No black person ever, in 20 years, no person of color has ever asked me why," he said.
This speak volumes about race and power relations in this country.
Here's what I think: Assuming Martin did engage Zimmerman physically, perhaps if the teen had hit back a little bit harder, perhaps if he had been able to prevent Zimmerman from grabbing his concealed and loaded gun and perhaps if witnesses had come to Martin's aid, then maybe he would be alive today. That's speculation.
One thing I feel sure of is that if Martin, in fear for his life, had used Zimmerman's own gun to shoot and possibly kill his attacker, when the police arrived on the scene, they would not have failed to charge him with murder.
Why hasn't the prosecution team used Florida law to argue strongly for Martin's right of self-defense, his right to stand his ground against a stalker? Why not turn the tables on Zimmerman's exclusive claim to that argument?
It will be interesting to see whether this question even gets posed for the jury at all. It certainly will be front and center as this case is tried by the jury of history. And future generations will likely puzzle over how the term "racial profiling" could have been banned by the judge before the trial even began.
This country's racial history, the list of names, like Sean Bell, Amadou Diallo, Oscar Grant and other victims of "deadly force" (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0967513626/qid=1013717747/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/104-1373126-4150315)by the police—these represent an even bigger Elephant in the Room.
They may have been ruled irrelevant in the courtroom, but they are certainly relevant to those who seek justice in this society.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/11/opinion/francis-zimmerman-trial/index.html?hpt=hp_t4

I don't know that anyone will object if Martin raises a stand your ground defense in his trial.

[CosmicCowboy]

I don't know that anyone will object if Martin raises a stand your ground defense in his trial.

:lmao

[Fabbs]

Is Judge Nelsons blocking Trabonz cell phone info automatic appeal material in the event the 6 give an emo verdict?
Now the *child abuse* scam. :lol Cant wait to see if Nelson lets this in.

[BradLohaus]

ROFL emo verdict. What did O'mara say after the opening? "People say I look like Joel Osteen, but the state is talking like him."

Get ready for that x10.

[boutons_deux]

SANFORD, Florida (Reuters) - Jurors in the second-degree murder trial of George Zimmerman may also consider convicting him of the lesser charge of manslaughter in the shooting death of unarmed black teenager Trayvon Martin, a judge ruled on Thursday.http://reuters.us.feedsportal.com/c/35217/f/654201/s/2e86cd24/mf.gifhttp://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/Reuters/domesticNews/~4/h4GQpT-4LDc

SANFORD, Florida (Reuters) - The judge presiding over the murder trial of George Zimmerman denied a defense request on Thursday that jurors be instructed the neighborhood watch volunteer did nothing illegal in deciding to follow Trayvon Martin, before the encounter in which he shot and killed the unarmed black teenager.http://reuters.us.feedsportal.com/c/35217/f/654201/s/2e876f1e/mf.gifhttp://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/Reuters/domesticNews/~4/R-eZb8eLmTg

[CosmicCowboy]

Wow. Look at how Reuters worded that.

[Big Empty]

SANFORD, Florida (Reuters) - Jurors in the second-degree murder trial of George Zimmerman may also consider convicting him of the lesser charge of manslaughter in the shooting death of unarmed black teenager Trayvon Martin, a judge ruled on Thursday.http://reuters.us.feedsportal.com/c/35217/f/654201/s/2e86cd24/mf.gifhttp://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/Reuters/domesticNews/~4/h4GQpT-4LDc

SANFORD, Florida (Reuters) - The judge presiding over the murder trial of George Zimmerman denied a defense request on Thursday that jurors be instructed the neighborhood watch volunteer did nothing illegal in deciding to follow Trayvon Martin, before the encounter in which he shot and killed the unarmed black teenager.http://reuters.us.feedsportal.com/c/35217/f/654201/s/2e876f1e/mf.gifhttp://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/Reuters/domesticNews/~4/R-eZb8eLmTg
:lmao i like that shit. my thoughts are he gets off but the cnn post a few post above is my entire feeling on the trial.

[Creepn]

Trayvon wasn't unarmed they say. He was armed with the Earth.

[CosmicCowboy]

Trayvon wasn't unarmed they say. He was armed with the Earth.

Lots of things can be a deadly weapon including a concrete sidewalk. You are just being stupid now.

[boutons_deux]

Trayvon wasn't unarmed they say. He was armed with the Earth.

he was armed with superior black athleticism versus a fat, lying, unathletic half-Hispanic macho punk, iow, dicklessness with a gun.

[BradLohaus]

he was armed with superior black athleticism versus a fat, lying, unathletic half-Hispanic macho punk, iow, dicklessness with a gun.

Racist.

[BradLohaus]

BDLR? State should've went went with the guy who gave the opening.

[boutons_deux]

Racist.

yep, the entire event is launched by Z's vigilante racism against young black males, as asshole punks and fucking niggars.

[CosmicCowboy]

3rd degree not allowed. BDLR doing close.

[BradLohaus]

Well b_d, blacks do hit puberty earlier. You probably could have testified on Z's behalf as to being a pussy like that gym owner.

[BradLohaus]

BDLR mentions the button he was wearing... but not who it was.

[CosmicCowboy]

Wow. BDLR actually tried to say Martin didn't hit Zimmerman because he didn't have blood on his hands.

[CosmicCowboy]

BDLR mentions the button he was wearing... but not who it was.

who was the button? I never heard.

[BradLohaus]

http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2013/05/20/trayvon-martins-button-and-the-angry-the-stand-your-ground-issue/

[BradLohaus]

"You can't say what happened at the actual interaction between them." Might as well let some people here make the closing.

[SA210]

You are misstating the facts. Martin runs away, Zimmerman exits the car and follows. The dispatcher then asks "are you following him" ZImmerman says yes, Dispatcher then says, "we don't need you to follow him". There is no order and reasonable minds could disagree as to if this is even a recommendation. He is simply telling Zimmerman that he does not need to follow Martin. Zimmerman says okay and tells the dispatcher where to meet him.

Facts matter and you should at least get them right.

ouch lol poor fuzzy

[BradLohaus]

Benjamin Crump: Who Screamed Doesn't Matter

By Jeralyn, Section Crime in the News

Posted on Thu Jul 11, 2013 at 08:23:00 AM

Unbelievable flip-flop. Benjamin Crump, the lawyer for the Martin family, was on CNN's Piers Morgan Live last night. When asked about the state's concession today that Trayvon Martin was probably on top of George Zimmerman during the struggle that ended in Martin's death, and how that impacts his and his clients' insistence that Martin was the one who was crying out for help, Crump said who screamed doesn't matter.

The cries for help, all of that is inconsequential when you think about who started this.

Inconsequential? (Start at the 3 minute mark)


[More...]


Then, in explaining his aggressor theory, he makes a claim that is wholly unsupported by the state's evidence at trial: "Zimmerman gets out of the car and chases Martin." Not a single witness testified Zimmerman got out of his car and chased Martin. Not a single witness identified anyone chasing Martin, let alone Zimmerman chasing him.

Piers Morgan then brought out a female CNN reporter (I didn't catch her name.) She said she was in the courtroom today. Maybe she's new to covering this case, and I don't expect show anchors like Piers Morgan to know the facts of any one case they report on, but they both seemed to me to be completely off-base in their comments about defense witness Olivia Bertalan. The reporter actually claimed Mark O'Mara may have taken too big a risk by calling the witness because the witness introduced the race issue by volunteering in her answers to his questions that the two suspects who robbed her home on August 3, 2011 were African American males. She thought O'Mara wasn't anticipating her answer, and it was a move that may backfire on O'Mara.

Obviously, neither of them attended or watched the trial on June 25 or June 26. Here is the video of the June 25 trial segment where the state argued it should be allowed to introduce 5 of Zimmerman's prior calls to non-emergency because they were evidence of his state of mind. To make its position clearer to the court, the argued the calls were evidence of Zimmerman playing cop, profiling young males because he found them suspicious and for "other reasons" and reporting them to police, saying they got away.

Two of the calls pertained to the August 3 burglary at Olivia Bertalan's house. The calls were then played for the Judge, outside the presence of the jury. The judge sided with the state. Here is the video of the calls being played for the jury on June 26 during the testimony of Ramona Rumph, the records custodian for the Seminole County Emergency Communications Department.

I wrote earlier today on why the defense called Olivia Bertalan. I'll restate it here so it's all in one place.

Two of the five calls the state played for the jury pertained to the home invasion at Bertalan's residence.

It was Olivia Bertalan, not Zimmerman, who called police to report a home invasion at her home while she and her infant son were home. She saw the perpetrators, hid in a bedroom and called 911 at 11:00 a.m. Bertalan described the perpetrators in her 911 call to police as two young African American males. Shelley Zimmerman also saw the suspects and provided a description to police.

Later that day, at 5:00 p.m., Zimmerman went to her home and brought her a new deadbolt because hers wasn't working. At 6:45 pm Zimmerman called the non-emergency number to report he spotted someone who fit the description Bertalan had given police of one of the suspects. The police did not catch him that night.

On August 6, Zimmerman called non-emergency again to tell police that the male fitting Bertalan's description was back in the neighborhood, and that he and Shelley had just seen him again. He told police they might want to send someone over to Calabria Cove apartments because he thought that's where the male would run to. Again the police didn't catch him. The case was placed on inactive status.

In September, police got a latent print report from the lab which showed that two prints found on the wall between Retreat at Twin Lakes and Calabria Cove apartments matched someone named Emmanuel Burgess. Bertalan identified Burgess from a photo lineup and charges were filed.

Emmanuel Burgess, who lived with his parents in the neighborhood, was on juvenile parole and and in and out of detention facilities. He lived with his parents at Retreat at Twin Lakes, and was finally arrested in February, 2012, after another burglary at the complex on February 6. His juvenile probation was terminated, he was transferred to adult court, where Judge Nelson presided over his multiple cases, consolidating them. He pleaded guilty to both the burglary at Bertalan's home in August, 2011 and the Febrary 6th burglary . Zimmerman had nothing to do with reporting the February 6 burglary. Burgess was sentenced by Judge Nelson to five years in prison. The dockets are here and here.

The full police reports the Bertalan burglary are here (they will take a while to open.) The report for the Feb. 6 burglary is here.

O'Mara didn't call Bertalan to inject race into the case, and I highly doubt her description in court of the males who burglarized her home on August 3 was unexpected by O'Mara. He called her to refute the state's allegation that Zimmerman was a wannabe cop who improperly profiled young African American males by seeking them out, reporting them as suspicious and claiming they always got away. (At another motions argument during the trial, O'Mara mentioned Emmanuel Burgess' name and reminded the Judge that she would be familiar with his record.)

Of the five calls the state introduced as supposed support for its theory that they showed Zimmerman's state of mind as a profiler and wannabe cop, two of the calls pertained to the Beltaran home invasion, in which he didn't profile anyone. He reported seeing someone who matched the description the homeowner (and his wife) had initially given police. The person he reported not only turned out to be the perpetrator, but the perpetrator was only able to be charged after his latent prints were found on the wall he had jumped over from Retreat at Twin Lakes to the neighboring complex. Burgess didn't just commit one burglary, but several, and he was found in possession of some of the stolen property when he was arrested. He had a long record as a juvenile and he lived in the neighborhood.

In the third of the five calls, Zimmerman didn't report anyone. He called to report an open garage door after 10:00 pm.

That leaves a total of 2 calls prior to February 26 in which he reported African American males as suspicious.

In one, on Feb. 2, the male appeared to him to be casing Frank Taafe's house, located at the shortcut from the main road. Zimmerman said the guy kept walking up to Taafe's house and away from it, and he knew the guy didn't live there. By the time police arrived, the male had left. Taaffe was out of town.

In the other of the two calls, during October, 2011, Zimmerman called to report seeing two older (late '20's to '30s) African American males hanging out at the entrance to the gated community at 1:00 in the morning. He reported them for loitering.

After the CNN reporter said O'Mara had taken a risk that may have backfired by Bertalan's reference to the two males who robbed her as African-American, Piers Morgan responded, "The prosecutor should have hammered about this" and launched into some other ways the prosecutors had poorly presented their case. Maybe someone could inform Piers that the prosecutors knew exactly what they were doing by not questioning Bertalan further. Had they done so, Ms. Beltaran would have driven the final nail into their already weak profiling argument.

Further indication O'Mara knew exactly what he was doing by putting Bertalan on the stand, and that his purpose was to contradict the state's implicit racial profiling theory, rather than "inject" race into the case: Right after he told the court he would rest and before he called Bertalan, one of his last two witnesses, O'Mara introduced into evidence the 6th call Zimmerman made to the non-emergency line, which the state had decided not to submit. It's the call made by Zimmerman to report his concern for children who were playing in the middle of the street, darting back and forth. He was afraid a car might hit one of them. The dispatcher asked him what race the children were. His response was "all races."

*****

Now that the evidence has been presented, my previously expressed opinions on this case have only become more solidified. Looking to the future, and the legacy of this case, here is what I see. Keep in mind this is only my opinion.

Whether George Zimmerman is acquitted or convicted, and I am not making any predictions before hearing closing arguments and reading the jury instructions, the legacy of this case will be that the media never gets it right, and worse, that a group of lawyers, with the aid of a public relations team, who had a financial stake in the outcome of pending and anticipated civil litigation, were allowed to commandeer control of Florida's criminal justice system, in pursuit of a divisive, personal agenda.

Their transformation of a tragic but spontaneous shooting into the crime of the century, and their relentless demonization of the person they deemed responsible, not for a tragic killing, but for "cold-blooded murder," has called into question the political motives and ethics of the officials serving in the Executive branch of Florida's government, ruined the career of other public officials, turned the lives of the Zimmerman family, who are as innocent as their grieving clients, into a nightmare, and along the way, set back any chance of a rational discussion of the very cause they were promoting, probably for years.

The problems of racial disparity and arbitrary enforcement of our criminal laws are real, systemic and need to be addressed. Criminal defense lawyers see it and fight to correct it every day. From charging decisions to plea offers to sentences, the system is not fair and everybody knows it.

But this case has never been representative of those problems. And perhaps most unfortunate of all, as a result of the false narrative created by the lawyers for grieving parents who tragically lost their son -- a narrative perpetuated by a complicit and ratings-hungry media -- any attempt at meaningful reform is likely to fall on deaf ears for years to come.


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http://www.talkleft.com/story/2013/7/11/22341/3139/crimenews/Benjamin-Crump-Who-Screamed-Doesn-t-Matter

[elbamba]

I don't understand the prosecutions stradegy here. He continues to create his own reasonable doubt. He says that Goode did not see the hands and Zimmerman could have had the gun in his hand the whole time and Martin was defending himself. If you say that then you could just as easeily say that Goode could not see his hands and that he did not have a gun in his hand and Martin was beating Zimmerman as punishment for following him.

Look, I just created reasonable doubt.

[elbamba]

BDLR logical gem. Why wasn't his jacket all ripped up from being slammed on the ground. Maybe because the ground was wet and the evidence suggests that his body was mostly on the wet grass and his hear over the sidewalk. The police testified that the evidence suggested that the clothes were wet from the rain and grass.

This guy is throwing so much crap at the wall hoping something sticks. This is why I tend to hate prosecutors.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

You are misstating the facts. Martin runs away, Zimmerman exits the car and follows. The dispatcher then asks "are you following him" ZImmerman says yes, Dispatcher then says, "we don't need you to follow him". There is no order and reasonable minds could disagree as to if this is even a recommendation. He is simply telling Zimmerman that he does not need to follow Martin. Zimmerman says okay and tells the dispatcher where to meet him.

Facts matter and you should at least get them right.

So tell me how does this temporal order negate the fact that Zimmerman chased after a kid that he saw perform no criminal activity that was trying to run away from him? That is the salient point.

And how in the hell is 'we don't need you to do that' not a recommendation. I agree that it could not be construed as an order but the suggestion was obvious. He continued doing it anyway.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

ouch lol poor fuzzy

And this is what I am talking about the Zimmerman defense team jerking each other off. Nice analysis, dimwit.

[SA210]

Thanks :tu

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Lots of things can be a deadly weapon including a concrete sidewalk. You are just being stupid now.

I have seen a kid with his head pounded into the concrete. If you think the injuries are consistent with that despite the ME then your selection bias is pretty damn obvious.

[tlongII]

I have seen a kid with his head pounded into the concrete. If you think the injuries are consistent with that despite the ME then your selection bias is pretty damn obvious.

:lmao

[KingsFanWithoutName]

I have seen a kid with his head pounded into the concrete. If you think the injuries are consistent with that despite the ME then your selection bias is pretty damn obvious.

Of course they are not consistent with what you've seen, the kid you saw obviously didn't have a gun to stop his attacker from pounding his head into the concrete.

[Creepn]

Of course they are not consistent with what you've seen, the kid you saw obviously didn't have a gun to stop his attacker from pounding his head into the concrete.

You saying those 2 little bitty ass cuts are consistent with getting your head bashed on concrete over 25 times?

Great another dimwit Zimmerman slobber.

[CosmicCowboy]

Well, got to watch a lot of the prosecutions close. It was pretty much smoke and mirrors. I have felt sorry for these guys from the beginning because they got railroaded into taking such an awful case. That being said, they did as good a job as they could with it. Funny close, though. Normally a prosecution is hammering down the nails in the coffin so there is no doubt of guilt. This was more like they were trying to pull the defenses nails out and create reasonable doubt that Zimmerman went on a manhunt to kill Martin...creating reasonable doubt is what the defense normally does. 2/3 of it was nit picking minor discrepancies in Zimmerman's multiple interviews with LE. Hardly a ringing proof of Murder 2 which was their obligation as the prosecution.

[KingsFanWithoutName]

You saying those 2 little bitty ass cuts are consistent with getting your head bashed on concrete over 25 times?

Great another dimwit Zimmerman slobber.
I was implying that Zimmerman's injuries were obviously not as severe as what Fuzzy was describing, because one had a gun to stop the attack while the other didn't. I thought that was pretty obvious but apparently you needed help.

[Trill Clinton]

yea crazy case indeed. it was obvious the wife beater profiled and stalked a teen who was forced to stand his ground. teen rightfully defended himself and whooped the cowards ass. if the zimmerman walks this will be a victory for cowards worldwide. all white jury, sorry ass prosecution team, trayvon deserved better.

[Sportcamper]

Manslaughter…15 years…

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Well, got to watch a lot of the prosecutions close. It was pretty much smoke and mirrors.

This is ironic as will be doemonstrated.



I have felt sorry for these guys from the beginning because they got railroaded into taking such an awful case. That being said, they did as good a job as they could with it.

Funny close, though. Normally a prosecution is hammering down the nails in the coffin so there is no doubt of guilt. This was more like they were trying to pull the defenses nails out and create reasonable doubt that Zimmerman went on a manhunt to kill Martin...creating reasonable doubt is what the defense normally does. 2/3 of it was nit picking minor discrepancies in Zimmerman's multiple interviews with LE. Hardly a ringing proof of Murder 2 which was their obligation as the prosecution.

The bolded portion outlines how this is nothing remotely like specific analysis but instead a lame ass attempt at emotional appeal. It's like you are mentall yincapable of talking about specifics but instead degrade into melodrama. Now how about you try and make a wager as if that is a meaningful discussion.

[elbamba]

So tell me how does this temporal order negate the fact that Zimmerman chased after a kid that he saw perform no criminal activity that was trying to run away from him? That is the salient point.

And how in the hell is 'we don't need you to do that' not a recommendation. I agree that it could not be construed as an order but the suggestion was obvious. He continued doing it anyway.

I am not sure I understand your question. I think you give way to much weight to the dispatcher's comment. Whether it was an instruction, recommendation, order or suggesstion does not matter. Zimmerman was not breaking a law and to the best of our knowledge, had lost sight of Martin at the point where the dispatcher told him that "we don't need you to follow him", at least he indicates as much in his call.

Next, you are incorrectly assuming that Martin ran away. I could just as logically conclude from the evidence presented that Martin was hiding with the intent to assault Zimmerman. Martin had plenty of time to run to his house. It could reasonably be argued that this would be what most reasonable people would do in a similar circumstance. If you cannot now prove that Martin did not assault Zimmerman, then I don't see have you have met your burden of proof beyond a reasonable doubt that it was not self defense.

One more point from your comment, you note that Zimmerman did not witness Martin commit a criminal act or perform criminal activity. If he had, would he have been justified in then following Martin? The reason I bring this up is because you are falling for exactly what the prosecution is trying to sell: that hindsight should be sufficient to convict Zimmerman. The prosecution has to prove two things which they have woefully failed to do and that is show the elements of 2nd degree murder (and now manslaughter) and that Zimmerman had no cause for self-defense as defined by Florida law. Because they cannot prove the elements, they try to confuse the jury with witness statements that testified without any certainty as to what they saw and irrelevant information such as the purchase of ice tea and skittles.

Lets presume for a second that Zimmerman racially profiled Martin, went after him with the intent to kill him, had his gun drawn and everything, Martin then jumps out of nowhere knocking Zimmerman down and the proceeds to beat the hell out of him to the point that a reasonable person would conclude (subjective conclusion) that their life is in danger or they could suffer serious bodily injury. Would his claim of self-defense then be justified? My point is that what really matters in this case, and I am focusing on Self-Defense not the second degree charge, is to forget all the irrelvant facts of how good or bad Zimmerman and Martin are. Can you reasonably believe that Zimmerman felt his life was ever in danager or he was about to suffer serious bodliy harm. If you cannot prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman did not feel either of these two things during their confrontation, self-defense has been met.

Finally, I disagree with your facts. You say that after the dispatcher told him that "we don't need you to follow him" that Zimmerman continues to do it anyway. I hear Zimmerman say "okay" ant then proceed to tell the dispatcher that Martin got away and where to have the cops meet him. I take it as Zimmerman had stopped following Martin and was returning to his car. Its not the defense's burden to prove it, can the prosecution prove that Zimmerman continue the pursuit?

[elbamba]

And this is what I am talking about the Zimmerman defense team jerking each other off. Nice analysis, dimwit.

Just out of curiosity did you read the case law I presented. Do you still disagree that the prosecution has the burden of proof to disprove self-defense?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I was implying that Zimmerman's injuries were obviously not as severe as what Fuzzy was describing, because one had a gun to stop the attack while the other didn't. I thought that was pretty obvious but apparently you needed help.

The only problem is that according to testimony given he did get his head beat in. What it looks like to me is that he got popped in the nose fell down and hit his head.

I have seen a guy stomped so bad that it caused brain damage before we pulled the guys off of him. I have hurt myself worse slipping in the shower.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Just out of curiosity did you read the case law I presented. Do you still disagree that the prosecution has the burden of proof to disprove self-defense?

I did and did you see the link that I had where other than the one statute that you are citing that there are two other laws that have been applied to the case.

http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/06/zimmerman-case-the-five-principles-of-the-law-of-self-defense/

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I am not sure I understand your question. I think you give way to much weight to the dispatcher's comment. Whether it was an instruction, recommendation, order or suggesstion does not matter. Zimmerman was not breaking a law and to the best of our knowledge, had lost sight of Martin at the point where the dispatcher told him that "we don't need you to follow him", at least he indicates as much in his call.

Next, you are incorrectly assuming that Martin ran away. I could just as logically conclude from the evidence presented that Martin was hiding with the intent to assault Zimmerman. Martin had plenty of time to run to his house. It could reasonably be argued that this would be what most reasonable people would do in a similar circumstance. If you cannot now prove that Martin did not assault Zimmerman, then I don't see have you have met your burden of proof beyond a reasonable doubt that it was not self defense.

One more point from your comment, you note that Zimmerman did not witness Martin commit a criminal act or perform criminal activity. If he had, would he have been justified in then following Martin? The reason I bring this up is because you are falling for exactly what the prosecution is trying to sell: that hindsight should be sufficient to convict Zimmerman. The prosecution has to prove two things which they have woefully failed to do and that is show the elements of 2nd degree murder (and now manslaughter) and that Zimmerman had no cause for self-defense as defined by Florida law. Because they cannot prove the elements, they try to confuse the jury with witness statements that testified without any certainty as to what they saw and irrelevant information such as the purchase of ice tea and skittles.

Lets presume for a second that Zimmerman racially profiled Martin, went after him with the intent to kill him, had his gun drawn and everything, Martin then jumps out of nowhere knocking Zimmerman down and the proceeds to beat the hell out of him to the point that a reasonable person would conclude (subjective conclusion) that their life is in danger or they could suffer serious bodily injury. Would his claim of self-defense then be justified? My point is that what really matters in this case, and I am focusing on Self-Defense not the second degree charge, is to forget all the irrelvant facts of how good or bad Zimmerman and Martin are. Can you reasonably believe that Zimmerman felt his life was ever in danager or he was about to suffer serious bodliy harm. If you cannot prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman did not feel either of these two things during their confrontation, self-defense has been met.

Finally, I disagree with your facts. You say that after the dispatcher told him that "we don't need you to follow him" that Zimmerman continues to do it anyway. I hear Zimmerman say "okay" ant then proceed to tell the dispatcher that Martin got away and where to have the cops meet him. I take it as Zimmerman had stopped following Martin and was returning to his car. Its not the defense's burden to prove it, can the prosecution prove that Zimmerman continue the pursuit?

Zimmerman said that Martin ran away after approaching his car and that was why he was following him. Pay attention.

And gmfb. Hindsight? This is a case about what happened in the past. He chased after a kid that was trying to get away from him for no good reason. Perhaps you should reread the self defense statute about who created the confrontation and how that invalidates the defense.

And this notion that Martin jumped out of the bushes and knocked him down and beat his head in the ground then went for his gun and said "you are going to die" is such contrived bullshit that is contrary to the evidence.

He knew that if he got out of the car to chase him he invalidated his defense. Surprise surprise. He was looking for a street sign that wasn' t there in a neighborhood of three streets that he was calling out streetnames for the dispatcher.

He knew that if he started talking shit that it would invalidated his defense. Surprise surprise. Martin jumped out of the bushes.

He knew that he had to feel in imminent severe danger. Surprise surprise. He was beat in the head so much that it caused a single laceration and no DNA and Martin conveniently told him he was going to kill him right before he shot him.

Zimmerman is a known liar and this story is so full fo shit I cannot see how anyone would believe it.

[Trill Clinton]

so if a kid sees he is being followed in the still of the night and decides to defend himself by "sucker punching" the coward, the kid deserves to die? well dayum. win for the cowards.

[elbamba]

I did and did you see the link that I had where other than the one statute that you are citing that there are two other laws that have been applied to the case.

http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/06/zimmerman-case-the-five-principles-of-the-law-of-self-defense/

I did. And it confirms what I said, the state still has the burden of proof. From your link:

And in order for Zimmerman to obtain a self-defense jury instruction, he needs only present a modicum of evidence (all of the above suffice – and IMHO constitute a preponderance of evidence in favor of self-defense). The State will then bear the burden to disprove self-defense, beyond a reasonable doubt.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

The defense through Zimmerman's account of what happened is claiming self defense. I think that are multiple reasons to very much so doubt that Zimmerman's case for self defense is anything but a bunch of lies.

If you doubt Zimmerman's story then you doubt his basis for a claim of self defense.

I do.

[elbamba]

so if a kid sees he is being followed in the still of the night and decides to defend himself by "sucker punching" the coward, the kid deserves to die? well dayum. win for the cowards.

Does not deserve to die. But in Florida, the shooter might have a legitimate self defense claim.

[elbamba]

Zimmerman said that Martin ran away after approaching his car and that was why he was following him. Pay attention.

And gmfb. Hindsight? This is a case about what happened in the past. He chased after a kid that was trying to get away from him for no good reason. Perhaps you should reread the self defense statute about who created the confrontation and how that invalidates the defense.

And this notion that Martin jumped out of the bushes and knocked him down and beat his head in the ground then went for his gun and said "you are going to die" is such contrived bullshit that is contrary to the evidence.

He knew that if he got out of the car to chase him he invalidated his defense. Surprise surprise. He was looking for a street sign that wasn' t there in a neighborhood of three streets that he was calling out streetnames for the dispatcher.

He knew that if he started talking shit that it would invalidated his defense. Surprise surprise. Martin jumped out of the bushes.

He knew that he had to feel in imminent severe danger. Surprise surprise. He was beat in the head so much that it caused a single laceration and no DNA and Martin conveniently told him he was going to kill him right before he shot him.

Zimmerman is a known liar and this story is so full fo shit I cannot see how anyone would believe it.

You who claim to want analysis give none yourself. You make a series of conclusive statements and move on. You have accepted the facts that you want to believe. You are just as guilty as those you claim a high ground over.

[Creepn]

so if a kid sees he is being followed in the still of the night and decides to defend himself by "sucker punching" the coward, the kid deserves to die? well dayum. win for the cowards.
Who's that woman in your avi?

[tlongII]

This case is not about whether or not Martin deserved to die. Obviously he didn't. This case is about whether or not Zimmerman should be convicted of Murder 2 or Manslaughter. Given the evidence and testimony presented at trial I think it's obvious that under Florida law he shouldn't be convicted.

[Trill Clinton]

Does not deserve to die. But in Florida, the shooter might have a legitimate self defense claim.

yea i know that, its a bullshit law that needs to be changed. if not, more innocent kids will die unfairly for defending themselves against creeps.

[elbamba]

The defense through Zimmerman's account of what happened is claiming self defense. I think that are multiple reasons to very much so doubt that Zimmerman's case for self defense is anything but a bunch of lies.

If you doubt Zimmerman's story then you doubt his basis for a claim of self defense.

I do.

Actually you are completely wrong. The defense did not present Zimmerman's account of self-defense, the defense took the prosecutors evidence and turned it on its face to prove self-defense. In presenting their defense, they then took expert witnesses to further support what they showed using the state's witnesses.

On what factual basis do you conclude that Zimmerman initiated the contact? Not the total conflict, the actual contact.

Do you doubt that Martin punched Zimmerman in the face?

Do you doubt that Martin ever mounted Zimmerman and caused any injury to Zimmerman, any injury at all to the back of his head?

If you have a broken nose that resulted from being punched in the face and then whoever punched you mounts you and continues to attack, does this put you in a state of fear of imminent bodily harm?

[Trill Clinton]

Who's that woman in your avi?


some sexy sista i found on tumblr. i love natural haired cuties.

[elbamba]

yea i know that, its a bullshit law that needs to be changed. if not, more innocent kids will die unfairly for defending themselves against creeps.

I actually made a suggestion to a co-worker today that they adopt a Zimmerman exception and title it such. There should be an exception to the rule if you pursue an indivudal who you have not witnessed commit a crime while armed. Something to that effect.

[jack sommerset]

If you go looking for trouble you are going to find it. God bless

[Creepn]

If you go looking for trouble you are going to find it. God bless

Who was looking for trouble?

[AntiChrist]

Zimmerman said that Martin ran away after approaching his car and that was why he was following him. Pay attention.

And gmfb. Hindsight? This is a case about what happened in the past. He chased after a kid that was trying to get away from him for no good reason. Perhaps you should reread the self defense statute about who created the confrontation and how that invalidates the defense.

And this notion that Martin jumped out of the bushes and knocked him down and beat his head in the ground then went for his gun and said "you are going to die" is such contrived bullshit that is contrary to the evidence.

He knew that if he got out of the car to chase him he invalidated his defense. Surprise surprise. He was looking for a street sign that wasn' t there in a neighborhood of three streets that he was calling out streetnames for the dispatcher.

He knew that if he started talking shit that it would invalidated his defense. Surprise surprise. Martin jumped out of the bushes.

He knew that he had to feel in imminent severe danger. Surprise surprise. He was beat in the head so much that it caused a single laceration and no DNA and Martin conveniently told him he was going to kill him right before he shot him.

Zimmerman is a known liar and this story is so full fo shit I cannot see how anyone would believe it.


So, what are you suggesting there, FuzzyLumpshits? Are you suggesting his injuries are self-inflicted?

lol @ "He knew that he had to feel in imminent severe danger": Do you really think he was spontaneously plotting all of this shit? You are going full tin-foiler on us.

[AntiChrist]

You who claim to want analysis give none yourself. You make a series of conclusive statements and move on. You have accepted the facts that you want to believe. You are just as guilty as those you claim a high ground over.

FuzzyLumpshits is a self-proclaimed expert on every subject.

[jack sommerset]

I believe they both were. God bless

[Trill Clinton]

I actually made a suggestion to a co-worker today that they adopt a Zimmerman exception and title it such. There should be an exception to the rule if you pursue an indivudal who you have not witnessed commit a crime while armed. Something to that effect.

yea i agree. there should be evidence of just cause if you're following someone you suspect of committing a crime. otherwise kids all across america will be unjustly profiled and forced into a fight which could cost them their life. no kid deserves to be put in that position.

[boobie4three]

yea i agree. there should be evidence of just cause if you're following someone you suspect of committing a crime. otherwise kids all across america will be unjustly profiled and forced into a fight which could cost them their life. no kid deserves to be put in that position.

Nobody forced him into a fight. I think you clowns already know that Martin caused his own death, but for whatever reason you want to continue to spew your nonsense.

[Trill Clinton]

Nobody forced him into a fight. I think you clowns already know that Martin caused his own death, but for whatever reason you want to continue to spew your nonsense.

ummm everything was fine until the coward stranger decides to follow a kid. a teenager isn't going to think situations like that all the way through, doggie. he was in fear of his life because some stranger is following him at night. its very logical that would scare the average kid and they either run, which is what tray did or try to defend theirself, which tray did.

he was placed in a situation that a reasonable person would realize requires judgment or actions beyond the child's level of maturity and was killed. keep believing the wife beater, his story doesn't add up and i aint buying it. you drink that kool aid, doggie. i don't want it.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

You who claim to want analysis give none yourself. You make a series of conclusive statements and move on. You have accepted the facts that you want to believe. You are just as guilty as those you claim a high ground over.

No I am restating Zimmerman statements and giving specific reasons why I don't believe them. I will be more dispassionate if that helps.

We know that he deceived his lawyer and the court by not disclosing his donations in a discussion of his financial ability to make bail.

It is by his own admission that he was following Martin and that he was told 'we don't you need to do that' by the police.

Zimmerman claims that he was not on watch duty but instead going to the grocery store. He told his dispatcher that he saw him --giving specific streets speaking to the next point-- at a location that was on the far side of his house from the exit to the grocery store.

Zimmerman claims that he got out of the car to look at streetsigns. That is incongruous to the previous statement. Further there was no street sign there. The altercation occurred 35 feet from the car and not in the direction a sign. Further he knew the other streets in the neighborhood as evidenced by him calling out the street names to the dispatcher.

Zimmerman feared for his life because he was having his head beaten into the concrete. The ME said that the injuries were not consistent with that. No DNA was found on Martin to corroborate his account.


If I am using your standard of a reasonable doubt requirement, I think there are multiple reasons to doubt the basis for Zimmerman's claim of self defense. He has a history of deceiving the court and the evidence and circumstances contradict his account of events. They are mutually exclusive.

[Trill Clinton]

i rest my case until the verdict

[FuzzyLumpkins]

FuzzyLumpshits is a self-proclaimed expert on every subject.

No, I don't. I certainly don't claim to be an expert on Florida law. I for example believe that his standard of reasonable doubt once the account for self defense is presented is correct.

Zimmerman's account is untenable and easy to create reasonable doubt for.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

So, what are you suggesting there, FuzzyLumpshits? Are you suggesting his injuries are self-inflicted?

lol @ "He knew that he had to feel in imminent severe danger": Do you really think he was spontaneously plotting all of this shit? You are going full tin-foiler on us.

No, I think that he got popped int he nose and fell down and hit his head. I do not believe for a moment when he says he was getting his head beat in. His injuries are not consistent with those types or that number of blows.

He had the time to go from the scene to the station where he gave his statement. I do think it is completely contrived. The basis for that is not tin hat but instead physical evidence that I have presented that is mutually exclusive to his account. All you counter that is with your incredulity. That his account is so obviously full of shit just means he could have used mroe time.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Actually you are completely wrong. The defense did not present Zimmerman's account of self-defense, the defense took the prosecutors evidence and turned it on its face to prove self-defense. In presenting their defense, they then took expert witnesses to further support what they showed using the state's witnesses.

On what factual basis do you conclude that Zimmerman initiated the contact? Not the total conflict, the actual contact.

Do you doubt that Martin punched Zimmerman in the face?

Do you doubt that Martin ever mounted Zimmerman and caused any injury to Zimmerman, any injury at all to the back of his head?

If you have a broken nose that resulted from being punched in the face and then whoever punched you mounts you and continues to attack, does this put you in a state of fear of imminent bodily harm?

It's up to the defense to present the basis for self defense. You can try and characterize it as 'turn around' or whatever the case may be but at the end of the day if you do not believe Zimmerman's account then there is no basis. It is the lynchpin especially since he declined to take the stand.

[Ignignokt]

It's up to the defense to present the basis for self defense. You can try and characterize it as 'turn around' or whatever the case may be but at the end of the day if you do not believe Zimmerman's account then there is no basis. It is the lynchpin especially since he declined to take the stand.

Yeah but at the end of the day, your oppinion counts for shit. Only the law applies. How has the State proved without out a reasonable doubt that zimmerman wasn't acting in self defense?

[elbamba]

NoIf I am using your standard of a reasonable doubt requirement, I think there are multiple reasons to doubt the basis for Zimmerman's claim of self defense. He has a history of deceiving the court and the evidence and circumstances contradict his account of events. They are mutually exclusive.

Its not my standard and you are inaccurately applying it. The state must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman committed Murder in the 2nd degree and that Zimmerman did not prove the elements of self defense. The question is not if you can reasonably doubt Zimmerman's story, which would be an easy burden to prove. In this case, after all the evidence has been shown, can you say beyond reasonable doube, in other words, under no circumstance could you possibly belive Zimmerman's account. That is sort of my layman explanation. There are other lawyers on this board that might be able to give a better definition.

[elbamba]

It's up to the defense to present the basis for self defense. You can try and characterize it as 'turn around' or whatever the case may be but at the end of the day if you do not believe Zimmerman's account then there is no basis. It is the lynchpin especially since he declined to take the stand.

I agree that the defense must meet the elements of self-defense, but if they have, and the court's jury instructions will verify that they did, it is my understanding that the jury does not then consider if the elements were met, but rather, did the state prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman did not have grounds for self-defense. Not sure if I am being clear in my point. I do not believe that it will be up to the jury to determine whether the defense showed self-defense, but rather, did the state disprove it.

[AntiChrist]

No, I think that he got popped int he nose and fell down and hit his head. I do not believe for a moment when he says he was getting his head beat in. His injuries are not consistent with those types or that number of blows.

He had the time to go from the scene to the station where he gave his statement. I do think it is completely contrived. The basis for that is not tin hat but instead physical evidence that I have presented that is mutually exclusive to his account. All you counter that is with your incredulity. That his account is so obviously full of shit just means he could have used mroe time.

It was so obvious that the cops didn't even arrest him.

[elbamba]

Yeah but at the end of the day, your oppinion counts for shit. Only the law applies. How has the State proved without out a reasonable doubt that zimmerman wasn't acting in self defense?

While I agree the state did not meet its burder, the judge disagreed and determined that the showed enough evidence to take it to the jury. If I were Zimmerman, I would be crapping my pants right now because there is no way to know how this jury will rule. If any of the jury is even slightly charged by the media frenzy and all the info that has been out there, it would be easy for them to throw out the judge's instructions an find their own path to a verdict. I have personally been involved in three cases that we know of juror misconduct. I suspect several other cases but was unable to prove it.

[elbamba]

It was so obvious that the cops didn't even arrest him.

Cops don't like to arrest Mexicans.

[elbamba]

I'm going home. Its been a fun discussion and I hope to continue it later tonight.

[pgardn]

The 2 constant themes throughout this trial are:

Skittles are a virtuous candy. Especially if bought before a confrontation.

Unathletic men taking MMA lessons best rely on a gun during a confrontation.


So carrying and handgun while in possession of Skittles covers about everything you need. Something to protect yourself or shoot a perceived threat, and a candy that indicates a passive nature. This combo cant lose.

[pgardn]

No, I think that he got popped int he nose and fell down and hit his head. I do not believe for a moment when he says he was getting his head beat in. His injuries are not consistent with those types or that number of blows.

He had the time to go from the scene to the station where he gave his statement. I do think it is completely contrived. The basis for that is not tin hat but instead physical evidence that I have presented that is mutually exclusive to his account. All you counter that is with your incredulity. That his account is so obviously full of shit just means he could have used mroe time.


So your take on the eyewitnesses that saw two men on the ground grappling?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

It was so obvious that the cops didn't even arrest him.

Well they weren't detectives nor a medical examiner. Had not reviewed the call in to the dispatch. Had not reviewed the scene to determine whether or not there was a street sign. Any number of things that I have pointed out.

You don't even refute a thing I say. If you cannot do better than this next time I will just ignore you.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Yeah but at the end of the day, your oppinion counts for shit. Only the law applies. How has the State proved without out a reasonable doubt that zimmerman wasn't acting in self defense?

Keep up with the thread dickhead. I just got through a list of REASONS to DOUBT Zimmerman's account of what happened.

I do not make absolute statements and make sure to indicate it's my opinion. It's your Zimmerman support group that makes declaratives like that.

I am not in the business in making claims as to the opinion of three FL women I do not know. However I think it's quite easy to come to my conclusion analytically.

If you choose to believe Zimmerman's account of events then so be it. I think it's obvious bullshit from a known liar.

[KingsFanWithoutName]

Keep up with the thread dickhead. I just got through a list of REASONS to DOUBT Zimmerman's account of what happened.

I do not make absolute statements and make sure to indicate it's my opinion. It's your Zimmerman support group that makes declaratives like that.

I am not in the business in making claims as to the opinion of three FL women I do not know. However I think it's quite easy to come to my conclusion analytically.

If you choose to believe Zimmerman's account of events then so be it. I think it's obvious bullshit from a known liar.

Regardless of your feelings of how they came to the situation, do you believe the eyewitness accounts of Martin on top of Zimmerman? If so do you believe Zimmerman could have feared for his life?

[AntiChrist]

Yes, Fuzzy, you are quite the analyst. They should convict that creepy ass white-Hispanic cracka on the street sign alone.

[AntiChrist]

Regardless of your feelings of how they came to the situation, do you believe the eyewitness accounts of Martin on top of Zimmerman? If so do you believe Zimmerman could have feared for his life?

He's an expert, who has personally witnessed numerous head bashings (including brain damage).

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Darrin quit acting like a petulant child. Trying to pick one tenant and grandstand on it is disingenuous. That is only one indication. Creating separate posts for each tenant is typical slimy bullshit from you but again there are a myriad of inconsistencies that I have pointed out.

Darrin apparently thinks having your head bashed into concrete over and over again results in a lightly bleeding laceration. That and the ME that said such injuries were not consistent with that account.

What I have seen doesn't matter. What does matter is that a ME, ie a professional, corroborates what I think.

Do you really think that Zimmerman's account was truthful?

[KingsFanWithoutName]

I'll ask again FuzzyLumpkins
Regardless of your feelings of how they came to the situation, do you believe the eyewitness accounts of Martin on top of Zimmerman? If so do you believe Zimmerman could have feared for his life?

[CosmicCowboy]

I'll ask again FuzzyLumpkins

Fuzzy is just a stupid troll. You are wasting your time trying to reason with him.

[KingsFanWithoutName]

Fuzzy is just a stupid troll. You are wasting your time trying to reason with him.

He seems like a good guy just a bit full of himself. Is he always like this? Seems like not many would enjoy conversing with him but apparently he has a fan club, according to his sig.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Regardless of your feelings of how they came to the situation, do you believe the eyewitness accounts of Martin on top of Zimmerman? If so do you believe Zimmerman could have feared for his life?

There are conflicting reports as to who was where.

One thing is clear to me: Zimmerman is lying about how the confrontation started. He lied about why he got out of the car. He lied about what he was doing out there in the first place. He lied about what kind of punches/violence was done to him. All of these are because of simple circumstantial evidence.

He was not going the direction to go to the grocery store as per his conversation with the dispatcher. He was not getting out of the car to look at a street sign as there was no street sign where he got out of his car. He did not get his head repeatedly slammed into the concrete as per the ME.

There is more than reasonable doubt in my mind about whether or not he is telling the truth. I have no doubt he is lying as he has lied in court before.

[KingsFanWithoutName]

There are conflicting reports as to who was where.

One thing is clear to me: Zimmerman is lying about how the confrontation started. He lied about why he got out of the car. He lied about what he was doing out there in the first place. He lied about what kind of punches/violence was done to him. All of these are because of simple circumstantial evidence.

He was not going the direction to go to the grocery store as per his conversation with the dispatcher. He was not getting out of the car to look at a street sign as there was no street sign where he got out of his car. He did not get his head repeatedly slammed into the concrete as per the ME.

There is more than reasonable doubt in my mind about whether or not he is telling the truth. I have no doubt he is lying as he has lied in court before.

Even the prosecution has pretty much conceded that Martin was on top, I'm not sure which trial you've been following.

You continue to dodge my question. I'll make it easier for you. Let's "pretend" Martin was on top, in that scenario do you think Zimmerman could have feared for his life?

[Creepn]

Even the prosecution has pretty much conceded that Martin was on top, I'm not sure which trial you've been following.

You continue to dodge my question. I'll make it easier for you. Let's "pretend" Martin was on top, in that scenario do you think Zimmerman could have feared for his life?

Could one fear for his life although he's on top?

[KingsFanWithoutName]

Could one fear for his life although he's on top?

Sure, but I doubt he'll be answering that question.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

He seems like a good guy just a bit full of himself. Is he always like this? Seems like not many would enjoy conversing with him but apparently he has a fan club, according to his sig.

I am definitely arrogant. I think I have reason to be. I understand multivariable calculus, PDEs, topology, stochastics, and harmonic analysis. Most people have difficulty beyond simple algebra and I have no issues in the highest of mathematics.

Simple logical proofs like application of laws or obvious causality are obvious.

I think the issue that people have is that I treat them with little respect. We have been posting here for a long time. By we I mean the ones that I am going back and forth with. Half of them are about two people that post on multiple accounts. Most of the reason why I give little respect though is because I see a methodology based on bias rather and logic and ideology as opposed to empiricism. And when people are intentionally misleading then I am hostile.

When I see it, I point it out and when people condescend me then I return it right back in kind.

All of that being said, I will admit when I am wrong. For example, elbamba was right and I was wrong as regards to self defense and presumption in the state of FL. There are all kinds of times I have been incorrect. That being said, I am not going to be persuaded by emotional appeal, bluster, or simpleminded bullshit. If that makes me an asshole then so be it.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Even the prosecution has pretty much conceded that Martin was on top, I'm not sure which trial you've been following.

You continue to dodge my question. I'll make it easier for you. Let's "pretend" Martin was on top, in that scenario do you think Zimmerman could have feared for his life?

Sure, I am not saying that at a certain point he could not have felt threatened. I just do not buy his story whatsoever.

I am watching the trial where Selma Mora said that Zimmerman was on top. There are all kinds of conflicting reports as to who was yelling for help and who was on top and all that. As such I don't even consider them. What I do consider is that Zimmerman has lied consistently about what events happened leading up to the confrontation.

The law is very clear that if you cause the confrontation then you waive your right to self defense. Martin was trying to run away and Zimmerman pursued him. There really is no question about that.

[KingsFanWithoutName]

Martin was trying to run away and Zimmerman pursued him. There really is no question about that.
So it's not clear who was on top, but it's clear Martin was running away and Zimmerman was chasing. If there is no question about that what's all the fuss about?

[Wild Cobra]

it's not 2 way. M was doing nothing, saw that he was being stalked by Z (who was armed and looking for asshole punks and fucking niggars), "perceived (accurately) a threat" and went on Stand Your Ground offense as best defense when Z came after him on foot.
You do not get to legally assault a "perceived" threat. TM was not standing his ground. He was the aggressor.

[Wild Cobra]

Who's that woman in your avi?
Obviously, the woman he wants to be. After all, and avatar is the graphical representation of the user or the user's alter ego or character.

[Wild Cobra]

Fuzzy is just a stupid troll. You are wasting your time trying to reason with him.
Yep.

I have this character flaw that I end up arguing with that Fussy troll. I had to put him on IGNORE to keep from wasting valuable time.

[mingus]

Sure, I am not saying that at a certain point he could not have felt threatened. I just do not buy his story whatsoever.

I am watching the trial where Selma Mora said that Zimmerman was on top. There are all kinds of conflicting reports as to who was yelling for help and who was on top and all that. As such I don't even consider them. What I do consider is that Zimmerman has lied consistently about what events happened leading up to the confrontation.

The law is very clear that if you cause the confrontation then you waive your right to self defense. Martin was trying to run away and Zimmerman pursued him. There really is no question about that.

What does confrontation mean though? It can mean many things. You are using it in a loose sense. The idea that you can start a "confrontation" where there is no threat of physical violence and then proceed to get your ass pummeled and not have the right to defend yourself because you "waived your rights" just sounds ridiculous. There has to be more to it.

[pgardn]

I am definitely arrogant. I think I have reason to be. I understand multivariable calculus, PDEs, topology, stochastics, and harmonic analysis. Most people have difficulty beyond simple algebra and I have no issues in the highest of mathematics.

Simple logical proofs like application of laws or obvious causality are obvious.



The above is so flawed...

This reminds me of a mega preacher complex, John Hagee like.

Self absorbed without a hint of true self-examination. It is rare you find a poster that puts out as many disingenuous arguments as Lumpkins. I would say this borders on intellectual narcissism.

Amazing stuff.

Yours in humbleness,
Kurt Godel

[AntiChrist]

Fuzzy tries to portray himself as detached and a analytical on this issue, but, in reality, he comes off as Nancy Grace.

[Trill Clinton]

Obviously, the woman he wants to be. After all, and avatar is the graphical representation of the user or the user's alter ego or character.

http://i.imgur.com/oWpNvfx.gif

[Creepn]

http://i.imgur.com/oWpNvfx.gif

lol

[boutons_deux]

Geraldo Rivera Says All Six Jurors Would Have Also Killed Trayvon Martin (http://thinkprogress.org/media/2013/07/12/2291771/geraldo-rivera-says-all-six-jurors-would-have-also-shot-trayvon-martin/)

RIVERA: I see those six ladies in the jury putting themselves on that rainy night, in that housing complex that has just been burglarized by three or four different groups of black youngsters from the adjacent community. So it’s a dark night, a 6-foot-2-inch hoodie-wearing stranger is in the immediate housing complex. How would the ladies of that jury have reacted? I submit that if they were armed, they would have shot and killed Trayvon Martin a lot sooner than George Zimmerman did. This is self-defense.

http://thinkprogress.org/media/2013/07/12/2291771/geraldo-rivera-says-all-six-jurors-would-have-also-shot-trayvon-martin/

One racial-profiliing Hispanic siding with another racial-profiling Hispanic.

[Trill Clinton]

Geraldo Rivera Says All Six Jurors Would Have Also Killed Trayvon Martin (http://thinkprogress.org/media/2013/07/12/2291771/geraldo-rivera-says-all-six-jurors-would-have-also-shot-trayvon-martin/)

RIVERA: I see those six ladies in the jury putting themselves on that rainy night, in that housing complex that has just been burglarized by three or four different groups of black youngsters from the adjacent community. So it’s a dark night, a 6-foot-2-inch hoodie-wearing stranger is in the immediate housing complex. How would the ladies of that jury have reacted? I submit that if they were armed, they would have shot and killed Trayvon Martin a lot sooner than George Zimmerman did. This is self-defense.

http://thinkprogress.org/media/2013/07/12/2291771/geraldo-rivera-says-all-six-jurors-would-have-also-shot-trayvon-martin/

One racial-profiliing Hispanic siding with another racial-profiling Hispanic.



wow...crazy the lengths people go to defend the coward. now trayvon is 6'2 lol.

they say tray attacked the coward at the T intersection as the coward was walking. tray appeared out of the thing air and attacked him at the T but the fight ended up 20-30 feet away from where the defense say it started. so tray now has super human genes and strength. when he punches people they fly 20 feet in the air, amazing.

[Sportcamper]

You have to wonder if those six ladies on the Jury would have made a TV special about
The Mystery of Al Capone's Vaults…

[CosmicCowboy]

wow...crazy the lengths people go to defend the coward. now trayvon is 6'2 lol.

they say tray attacked the coward at the T intersection as the coward was walking. tray appeared out of the thing air and attacked him at the T but the fight ended up 20-30 feet away from where the defense say it started. so tray now has super human genes and strength. when he punches people they fly 20 feet in the air, amazing.

not guilty LOL

[elbamba]

wow...crazy the lengths people go to defend the coward. now trayvon is 6'2 lol.

they say tray attacked the coward at the T intersection as the coward was walking. tray appeared out of the thing air and attacked him at the T but the fight ended up 20-30 feet away from where the defense say it started. so tray now has super human genes and strength. when he punches people they fly 20 feet in the air, amazing.

The 4 minutes of silence that showed just how long Martin had to flee show pretty conclusively that he was not running away.

[elbamba]

Very powerful statement by O'Mara regarding the degree of injuries needed for self-defense. None, zero, nothing. The degree of injuries do not matter. You must only look at state of mind. Pretty damn strong.

[Fabbs]

^^Geraldo quote bashers

or reasonable homeowner who is not buying Trabonz supporters theory that he was going to the store for milk and cookies for the church pic nic.

[Trill Clinton]

so tray ran a 4 minute mile? impressive

[leemajors]

Fuzzy tries to portray himself as detached and a analytical on this issue, but, in reality, he comes off as Nancy Grace.

I haven't seen any signs of him being aroused by the killing of a minor.

[Trill Clinton]

not guilty LOL

you've been lol'ng and posting smiley's all through this thread. making silly bets. this has to be the time of your life. a innocent dead black teen and the killer might walk. shame that a 55 year old man is this pressed to see a killer walk, sad.

[CosmicCowboy]

you've been lol'ng and posting smiley's all through this thread. making silly bets. this has to be the time of your life. a innocent dead black teen and the killer might walk. shame that a 55 year old man is this pressed to see a killer walk, sad.

I just like fucking with you. You have been whining and crying and repeating the same stupid shit over and over and over. Bottom line, the prosecution didn't prove him guilty beyond a reasonable doubt and all the evidence points to a clean, legal self defense shoot.

Deal with it.

And I'm not laughing at the dead kid I'm laughing at you.

[boutons_deux]

you've been lol'ng and posting smiley's all through this thread. making silly bets. this has to be the time of your life. a innocent dead black teen and the killer might walk. shame that a 55 year old man is this pressed to see a killer walk, sad.

CC's racism is hiding being his strictly legal, and of course very safe, bet of "not guilty of 2nd degree murder"

[CosmicCowboy]

He is not guilty no matter what the color of the dead guy.

[CosmicCowboy]

And quit calling him a fucking child. If the roles were reversed the state would be trying TM as an adult.

[clambake]

sure he is.

[Trill Clinton]

I just like fucking with you. You have been whining and crying and repeating the same stupid shit over and over and over. Bottom line, the prosecution didn't prove him guilty beyond a reasonable doubt and all the evidence points to a clean, legal self defense shoot.

Deal with it.

And I'm not laughing at the dead kid I'm laughing at you.

oh so you're making a mockery of a innocent child's death because you think it makes me mad? its almost time you check yourself into the retirement home, gramps.

[Trill Clinton]

CC's racism is hiding being his strictly legal, and of course very safe, bet of "not guilty of 2nd degree murder"

exactly. him and the rest of the coward supporters keep hiding behind the legal argument when in reality, their racism is what's keeping them tuned in every week. its team trayvon(blacks) vs team zimmerman(whites) for a reason and its very sad and sickening that there are people like him still walking this earth.

[CosmicCowboy]

exactly. him and the rest of the coward supporters keep hiding behind the legal argument when in reality, their racism is what's keeping them tuned in every week. its team trayvon(blacks) vs team zimmerman(whites) for a reason and its very sad and sickening that there are people like him still walking this earth.

:lmao:lmao:lmao

As usual you couldn't be more wrong.

And I sincerely say GFY you racist piece of shit.

[AntiChrist]

exactly. him and the rest of the coward supporters keep hiding behind the legal argument when in reality, their racism is what's keeping them tuned in every week. its team trayvon(blacks) vs team zimmerman(whites) for a reason and its very sad and sickening that there are people like him still walking this earth.


lol @ coward supporters


It's not so much that people support GZ as they don't support the media-driven lynch mob.


That said -- I'd rather see GZ in prison than an innocent person killed in retaliation of a not guilty verdict.

[pgardn]

so tray ran a 4 minute mile? impressive
That would of course be a world class miler. I am pretty sure he meant 1/2 a mile for a young male in reasonable shape.

So based on this screw up by the defending attorney we need to throw everything out and start over. Just like we should throw everything out when the prosecutors claim that wimpy George gave a cold calculated, "Thank God"' , when told that there could be video of the cofomtation. You see George is a cold calculating evil man who had that response ready way ahead of time, a real cool thinker under stress...

Lets nit pick every word by each attorney.

[elbamba]

so tray ran a 4 minute mile? impressive

The inference is that he had 4 minutes to run home or run away and it does not look like he did that.

[CosmicCowboy]

The inference is that he had 4 minutes to run home or run away and it does not look like he did that.

I'm pretty sure it was entered into evidence that his home was 356 feet from the shooting scene. He could have crawled that in 4 minutes.

[Trill Clinton]

:lmao:lmao:lmao

As usual you couldn't be more wrong.

And I sincerely say GFY you racist piece of shit.

naw i'm right and you're the racist, just chill.


lol @ coward supporters


It's not so much that people support GZ as they don't support the media-driven lynch mob.


That said -- I'd rather see GZ in prison than an innocent person killed in retaliation of a not guilty verdict.

i don't see why they're so upset about a innocent kid being stalked and murdered. the media has never been credible but now people want to put up a fuss? why? the media has started lynch mob's and smear campaign's on trayvon and his family as well.

[Trill Clinton]

The inference is that he had 4 minutes to run home or run away and it does not look like he did that.

why didn't the coward just stay in his car?

why didn't the coward identify himself as a watchmen?

would you lure a stalker to your home where your kid brother lives?

remember, trayvon was just a 17 year old kid who was put in a situation beyond his level of maturity.

[tlongII]

naw i'm right and you're the racist, just chill.



i don't see why they're so upset about a innocent kid being stalked and murdered. the media has never been credible but now people want to put up a fuss? why? the media has started lynch mob's and smear campaign's on trayvon and his family as well.

You got a link for that?

[AntiChrist]

i don't see why they're so upset about a innocent kid being stalked and murdered. the media has never been credible but now people want to put up a fuss? why? the media has started lynch mob's and smear campaign's on trayvon and his family as well.

They were right to be upset over the killing of an innocent young man, but they were wrong to create false perceptions about both GZ and TM. Shit started from the media and worked itself all the way up to POTUS (If I had a son, he would look like Trayvon -- WTF?)

[tlongII]

Was Zimmerman supposed to know Trayvon was 17?

[elbamba]

why didn't the coward just stay in his car?

would you lure a stalker to your home where your kid brother lives?

remember, trayvon was just a 17 year old kid who was put in a situation beyond his level of maturity.

You and I agree that he should not have gotten out of his car. He should have left it to the cops. But he did nothing illegal and he did not legally stalk Martin.

I would say a kid is more likely to run home. The level of analysis that you are giving him goes beyond his maturity level, that being that he did not want to lead a stalker to his home where his kid brother lives. The normal child would not think like that under similar circumstances.

[elbamba]

You got a link for that?

There is no doubt that Fox and conservative websites have tried to do so pointing to drug use and suspensions. While the majority of the media was misleading the public with notions of Zimmerman being a white male gunning down a young boy (based on the pictures) Fox was taking the opposite approach and trying to make it look like Martin was some thug who probably would have broken into a house if not for Zimmerman shooting him. That is what I have taken from the media coverage leading up to trial.

[Creepn]

Was Zimmerman supposed to know Trayvon was 17?

He already knew. He told dispatcher he was a teen when describing him.

[elbamba]

I'm pretty sure it was entered into evidence that his home was 356 feet from the shooting scene. He could have crawled that in 4 minutes.

You are correct. I am not justifying Zimmerman's actions but Martin played a role in this too. He might very well have been justified. We will never know.

[elbamba]

You are still a teenager when you are 18 and 19 even though you are legally an adult.

[Creepn]

They were right to be upset over the killing of an innocent young man, but they were wrong to create false perceptions about both GZ and TM. Shit started from the media and worked itself all the way up to POTUS (If I had a son, he would look like Trayvon -- WTF?)

I really don't understand the problem people have with that POTUS quote. I really don't.

[Creepn]

You are still a teenager when you are 18 and 19 even though you are legally an adult.

Guy barely turned 17 weeks after his birthday. He's more kid than young adult in my book.

[hitmanyr2k]

Was Zimmerman supposed to know Trayvon was 17?


Dipshit fat guy wasn't supposed to know anything except to stay his dumbass in the car and wait for the cops to do their job. That's G.E.D level of common sense. If Trayvon Martin is supposed to be this large intimidating black guy why follow him in the dark and escalate the situation?

[AntiChrist]

I really don't understand the problem people have with that POTUS quote. I really don't.

It was stupid. And I would expect a Harvard Law grad to know better.

[elbamba]

Late teens is what he told the dispatcher. Look at the bottom of page one.

http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/326700-full-transcript-zimmerman.html

[Creepn]

It was stupid.

Why?

[elbamba]

I really don't understand the problem people have with that POTUS quote. I really don't.

http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/326700-full-transcript-zimmerman.html

Your book does not matter in this discussion. Zimmerman refers to him as being in his late teens. You can take a guess at what that means. I would contend that he was not a small child.

[Creepn]

http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/326700-full-transcript-zimmerman.html

Your book does not matter in this discussion. Zimmerman refers to him as being in his late teens. You can take a guess at what that means. I would contend that he was not a small child.

Late teen is still a teen. Oh you fell for that "life size" cutout O'Mara used? lol you are smarter than that man. I at least hope the jury is.

[elbamba]

Late teen is still a teen. Oh you fell for that "life size" cutout O'Mara used? lol you are smarter than that man. I at least hope the jury is.

Teen can be tried as an adult. Change the facts and have an adult walking his dog when a 17 year old male punches him in the face and then proceeds to slam his head on the sidewalk. Likely the 17 year old gets tried as an adult.

[AntiChrist]

Late teen is still a teen. Oh you fell for that "life size" cutout O'Mara used? lol you are smarter than that man. I at least hope the jury is.


He's a great attorney though.

[Creepn]

Teen can be tried as an adult. Change the facts and have an adult walking his dog when a 17 year old male punches him in the face and then proceeds to slam his head on the sidewalk. Likely the 17 year old gets tried as an adult.

More often than not, the 17 year old would be tried as a teen and not as an adult.

[Sportcamper]

If Trayvon Martin is supposed to be this large intimidating black guy why follow him in the dark and escalate the situation?

If you continue to bring logic to the forum I will have to report you to the moderators… :ban:

[Fabbs]

State closers trying to dissuade jurors by belittling Omamas charts proving 4 minutes between cell phone calls. Lame.
"I don't have any charts or videos" while wrinklilng up his face.
Translation: I don't have shit for evidence.

I think jury chicks see thru it.

[elbamba]

More often than not, the 17 year old would be tried as a teen and not as an adult.

More often than not, it depends on the crime.

[InRareForm]

when is the verdict coming/

[vy65]

lol black people be salty if not guilty

[mingus]

I am definitely arrogant. I think I have reason to be. I understand multivariable calculus, PDEs, topology, stochastics, and harmonic analysis. Most people have difficulty beyond simple algebra and I have no issues in the highest of mathematics.

Simple logical proofs like application of laws or obvious causality are obvious.

I think the issue that people have is that I treat them with little respect. We have been posting here for a long time. By we I mean the ones that I am going back and forth with. Half of them are about two people that post on multiple accounts. Most of the reason why I give little respect though is because I see a methodology based on bias rather and logic and ideology as opposed to empiricism. And when people are intentionally misleading then I am hostile.

When I see it, I point it out and when people condescend me then I return it right back in kind.

All of that being said, I will admit when I am wrong. For example, elbamba was right and I was wrong as regards to self defense and presumption in the state of FL. There are all kinds of times I have been incorrect. That being said, I am not going to be persuaded by emotional appeal, bluster, or simpleminded bullshit. If that makes me an asshole then so be it.

I missed this gem of a post. You're fucking delusional.

[KingsFanWithoutName]

I missed this gem of a post. You're fucking delusional.


Please refer to the first quote in my sig

[tlongII]

There is no doubt that Fox and conservative websites have tried to do so pointing to drug use and suspensions. While the majority of the media was misleading the public with notions of Zimmerman being a white male gunning down a young boy (based on the pictures) Fox was taking the opposite approach and trying to make it look like Martin was some thug who probably would have broken into a house if not for Zimmerman shooting him. That is what I have taken from the media coverage leading up to trial.

I can agree with some of that. However, I have seen no lynch mob comments in favor of avenging Zimmerman if he's convicted.

[tlongII]

He already knew. He told dispatcher he was a teen when describing him.

Thank you for the clarification. I didn't know he described someone in his late teens.

[clambake]

just looked at this trial for the first time. george walking into courtroom..........geez that is one fat mofo.

hope he walks. don't want to pay for all the food.

[clambake]

"great bodily harm" lol

[Trill Clinton]

I can agree with some of that. However, I have seen no lynch mob comments in favor of avenging Zimmerman if he's convicted.

Go to storm front.

[boobie4three]

Zimmerman Trial: 'The Sound of Silence'

The most dramatic moment yet of the George Zimmerman trial yet occurred during the defense's closing argument Friday morning, when attorney Mark O'Mara paused for four minutes to illustrate a long gap in the prosecution's timeline of events.


The television cameras zoomed in on the digital clock, and panned slowly across the stony faces of the spectators as O'Mara walked back to his table, conferred with counsel, checked his papers, then--after what seemed an eternity--returned to continue his argument to the jury.
In case you weren't watching live, those four minutes of silence were longer than the original "Sound of Silence" by Simon and Garfunkel, which might seem like a fairly complicated tune but only clocks in at 3:05.
Those four minutes of eerie silence in the court were a powerful illustration--and experience--of what reasonable doubt means in the defense's theory of the case.
If prosecutors could not explain what Trayvon Martin was doing for four minutes instead of walking home--or running, as state witness Rachel Jeantel testified--how could they claim that Zimmerman had set out to kill Martin? If he felt threatened, why didn't he leave? And wasn't it more likely that Martin had lain in wait for Zimmerman and started a confrontation?
O'Mara's argument continued, providing jurors with an account of events from start to finish--which, oddly, the prosecution had failed to do in its closing argument, preferring to focus on Zimmerman's credibility.
The defense stressed the important of the "reasonable doubt" standard, noting that even if the jury thought it was "highly unlikely" that Zimmerman acted in self-defense, that was not enough to convict him.

Video at link.

http://www.breitbart.com/InstaBlog/2013/07/12/Zimmerman-Trial-The-Sound-of-Silence

[Homeland Security]

Go to storm front.
:lmao Complaining about racism because of what you read on Stormfront is like complaining about the smell because you decided to go wallow in shit.

[Homeland Security]

I had to watch the closing arguments because the spectacle of prosecutors trying to argue for a verdict when they have zero evidence, they know they have zero evidence, they know they are standing there only because some lady wanted to make sure she could get re-elected without opposition, and yet they're still giving it the old college try anyway with a whole bunch of arm-waving, is compelling in a farcical sort of way.

Regardless of the verdict, the farce will continue, and it will all be hilarious.

[boutons_deux]

scumbag Z's blatant lies, inconsistencies add up to a much bigger pile of shit than all the hard evidence.

It was hilarious how a defense actor straddled the dummy, lifted its head and shoulders 2 feet off the ground and slammed it down repeatedly, as if Z were perfectly passive, armless, unresisting as that dummy while TM was beating the shit out of him.

[KingsFanWithoutName]

It was hilarious how a defense actor straddled the dummy, lifted its head and shoulders 2 feet off the ground and slammed it down repeatedly, as if Z were perfectly passive, armless, unresisting as that dummy while TM was beating the shit out of him.Dummys usually don't fight back.

[Trill Clinton]

The coward had a good legal team thanks to a certain group of people providing financial support.

[Trill Clinton]

:lmao Complaining about racism because of what you read on Stormfront is like complaining about the smell because you decided to go wallow in shit.

Okay......

tlong was complaining about a lynch mob, not me. I don't care about storm front.

[boutons_deux]

I'm hoping for a hung jury and new trial with the state upgrading to serious prosecutorial talent rather than these local yokels. But it's a Repug FL that doesn't GAF about a young, black male in a hoodie.

[CosmicCowboy]

I'm hoping for a hung jury and new trial with the state upgrading to serious prosecutorial talent rather than these local yokels. But it's a Repug FL that doesn't GAF about a young, black male in a hoodie.

LMAO

These weren't the locals...this was the special hit team brought in by the special prosecutor.

They simply couldn't overcome the obstacle of not having any evidence of 2nd degree murder.

[Homeland Security]

The coward had a good legal team thanks to a certain group of people providing financial support.
This has to sting for a black man. You see so many public defenders who either don't know what the hell they are doing or are just going through the motions. They'd find a way to let a slow roller like this case nevertheless dribble between their legs.

To the former it turns out that law degree diploma from Southern is worth its weight in toilet paper, and to the latter at the end of the day what difference does it make to them if another poor black man goes to prison? Was he ever going to amount to anything anyway?

[Homeland Security]

Okay......

tlong was complaining about a lynch mob, not me. I don't care about storm front.

You don't have to play dumb; I already know you're dumb.

[Creepn]

lol black people be salty if not guilty

Yes, because it gives us a dose of reality that our kids can get profiled and killed just for walking home with no punishment.

[CosmicCowboy]

Yes, because it gives us a dose of reality that our kids can get profiled and killed just for walking home with no punishment.


:lmao

[AntiChrist]

I'm hoping for a hung jury and new trial with the state upgrading to serious prosecutorial talent rather than these local yokels. But it's a Repug FL that doesn't GAF about a young, black male in a hoodie.

With evidence not in their favor, they'd have to argue on pure emotion, just as the prosecutors have in this trial. Continuing to refer to TM as a "child" is smart, but I don't know how effective it is.

[Creepn]

:lmao

Of course it's funny to a person living vicariously through Zimmerman.

[Homeland Security]

That would of course be a world class miler. I am pretty sure he meant 1/2 a mile for a young male in reasonable shape.

So based on this screw up by the defending attorney we need to throw everything out and start over. Just like we should throw everything out when the prosecutors claim that wimpy George gave a cold calculated, "Thank God"' , when told that there could be video of the cofomtation. You see George is a cold calculating evil man who had that response ready way ahead of time, a real cool thinker under stress...

Lets nit pick every word by each attorney.
Why the fuck are you trying to reason with that dumb spook? Here's his logic -- a young black male who was not initially trying to commit a crime was killed by a white guy. Therefore, white guy is guilty. Stop trying to argue points of Florida law or the Western juridical tradition to somebody whose culture is 6000 years behind yours. You might as well argue with a cat.

[CosmicCowboy]

Of course it's funny to a person living vicariously through Zimmerman.

No it's funny that you make these broad generalizations that have zero basis in fact. Saint Travon fucked up when he jumped Zimmerman and now he is dead. It's the same result as if he fucked up drinking and driving and crashed and got killed. His fuckup led directly to his death.

[vy65]

Yes, because it gives us a dose of reality that our kids can get profiled and killed just for walking home with no punishment.

Well, that's the price you pay for white women n they jungle fever ... amirite my brotha?

[Homeland Security]

Yes, because it gives us a dose of reality that our kids can get profiled and killed just for walking home with no punishment.
There might be a lesson that beatin' dat creepy ass cracka's ass cos' he been profilin you and you ain't gotta put up widdat shit cos' you a hardass nigga and you gotta teach dat cracka a lesson isn't such a bright idea given that said cracka might be armed, can kill you, and would be justified in doing so.

Of course if you could come to understand that logic, you wouldn't be considered black anymore -- you'd be a sellout Uncle Tom.

[CavsSuperFan]

I am definitely arrogant. I think I have reason to be. I understand multivariable calculus, PDEs, topology, stochastics, and harmonic analysis. Most people have difficulty beyond simple algebra and I have no issues in the highest of mathematics.

Most of the reason why I give little respect though is because I see a methodology based on bias rather and logic and ideology as opposed to empiricism. And when people are intentionally misleading then I am hostile.

Fuzzy Keeping It Real!

http://i.imgur.com/icDAk.gif

[Creepn]

There might be a lesson that beatin' dat creepy ass cracka's ass cos' he been profilin you and you ain't gotta put up widdat shit cos' you a hardass nigga and you gotta teach dat cracka a lesson isn't such a bright idea given that said cracka might be armed, can kill you, and would be justified in doing so.

Of course if you could come to understand that logic, you wouldn't be considered black anymore -- you'd be a sellout Uncle Tom.

That's right, we shouldn't put up with any racial profiling of any sort. Nobody has to tell anybody shit, regardless which race you are. It has nothing to do with being "hard". It's all about our rights as Americans. If a guy confronts me falsely accusing me of shit, we are going to have words. I won't strike first but I will belittle him.

[monosylab1k]

Go to storm front.

Why would storm front care about a half breed Mexican?

[Homeland Security]

No it's funny that you make these broad generalizations that have zero basis in fact. Saint Travon fucked up when he jumped Zimmerman and now he is dead. It's the same result as if he fucked up drinking and driving and crashed and got killed. His fuckup led directly to his death.
What's especially funny is that in reality if the races were switched, the general public consensus would be that the dead 17-year-old white kid was a punk-ass bitch who had it coming, and there would be no national story, whereas black people believe that the dopey fat 28-year-old black dude would already have been executed. But, whatever, I'd old enough to know that the mind of black society is irretrievably fucked up and will never change except for the worse, so I might as well just enjoy laughing at their expense, especially since it's so easy to push their buttons.

[Creepn]

What's especially funny is that in reality if the races were switched, the general public consensus would be that the dead 17-year-old white kid was a punk-ass bitch who had it coming, and there would be no national story, whereas black people believe that the dopey fat 28-year-old black dude would already have been executed. But, whatever, I'd old enough to know that the mind of black society is irretrievably fucked up and will never change except for the worse, so I might as well just enjoy laughing at their expense, especially since it's so easy to push their buttons.

Wrong. There wouldn't be any national story because it would be a one straight trip to the pen for the killer, do not pass go, do not collect $200 before a story could break.

[Creepn]

DP

[Homeland Security]

That's right, we shouldn't put up with any racial profiling of any sort. Nobody has to tell anybody shit, regardless which race you are. It has nothing to do with being "hard". It's all about our rights as Americans. If a guy confronts me falsely accusing me of shit, we are going to have words. I won't strike first but I will belittle him.
Whatever. If I see a young black male I don't know, the odds are between 1/5 and 1/3 that he is a threat to harm me, and I am going to take appropriate precautions. That those precautions might offend the 2/3, or 4/5, that aren't a threat is a vastly lower concern to me than my personal safety. If you think I need to roll the dice to be "not racist," then frankly fuck you. If my precautions mean some sweet little 6-year-old black girl with pigtails dies a horrible death, so be it. Your lives just aren't worth all that much.

[Homeland Security]

Wrong. There wouldn't be any national story because it would be a one straight trip to the pen for the killer, do not pass go, do not collect $200 before a story could break.
Whatever. I don't really have any interest in changing your mind, to whatever degree you actually have one.

[lakerhaterade]

Extra Koolaid Security

[Creepn]

Whatever. If I see a young black male I don't know, the odds are between 1/5 and 1/3 that he is a threat to harm me, and I am going to take appropriate precautions. That those precautions might offend the 2/3, or 4/5, that aren't a threat is a vastly lower concern to me than my personal safety. If you think I need to roll the dice to be "not racist," then frankly fuck you. If my precautions mean some sweet little 6-year-old black girl with pigtails dies a horrible death, so be it. Your lives just aren't worth all that much.

lol your odds are one from a pussy ass coward like yourself with an irrational fear developed from skewed statistics and supremacist forums.

[Creepn]

Whatever. I don't really have any interest in changing your mind, to whatever degree you actually have one.

"Whatever" "Whatever", that's all you fucking got when someone challenges your irrationality. I'm done with you little man.

[pgardn]

Why the fuck are you trying to reason with that dumb spook?

I am arguing with a ghost, an actual spirit of the dead?

Was just trying to illustrate that both attornies have screwed up. People with preconceived notions use their particular favorite to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

[pgardn]

Whatever. If I see a young black male I don't know, the odds are between 1/5 and 1/3 that he is a threat to harm me, and I am going to take appropriate precautions. That those precautions might offend the 2/3, or 4/5, that aren't a threat is a vastly lower concern to me than my personal safety. If you think I need to roll the dice to be "not racist," then frankly fuck you. If my precautions mean some sweet little 6-year-old black girl with pigtails dies a horrible death, so be it. Your lives just aren't worth all that much.

What?

whose lives?

[Creepn]

Jury is now in deliberation mode.

[Homeland Security]

"Whatever" "Whatever", that's all you fucking got when someone challenges your irrationality. I'm done with you little man.
You can say you're done and call me irrational till you run out of breath, but at the end of the day I'm still on top of the pyramid, and you're still the one getting profiled by me. And I enjoy knowing you stew in rage over it. :lmao

[Homeland Security]

I am arguing with a ghost, an actual spirit of the dead?

Was just trying to illustrate that both attornies have screwed up. People with preconceived notions use their particular favorite to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
:lmao Oh the irony.

[Homeland Security]

What?

whose lives?

Chicago Bulls fans. :lmao

[Homeland Security]

Jury is now in deliberation mode.

"Let's take a vote, ladies -- how many of us, had we been in GZ's situation, hope we would have been able to shoot the scary black man in time?"
"Aye."
"Aye."
"Aye."
"Aye."
"Aye."
"Aye."

(Silence)

"Should we sit here a while so it doesn't look so quick?"

"OK. Or we could talk about something else for, say, 30 minutes."

[Homeland Security]

lol your odds are one from a pussy ass coward like yourself with an irrational fear developed from skewed statistics and supremacist forums.
Do you think that I read Vanguard and Stormfront, or does Spurstalk count as a supremacist forum?

[pgardn]

"Let's take a vote, ladies -- how many of us, had we been in GZ's situation, ."

Yeah.

Im getting out of my car totin my heat... I thrive on that shit.

Jesus...

[Homeland Security]

Yeah.

Im getting out of my car totin my heat... I thrive on that shit.

Jesus...
I profiled some upper-middle-class white people yesterday, just for a change of pace. Wasn't even carrying. Just gave them that polite half-smile with narrowed eyes, asked questions.

[CosmicCowboy]

"Let's take a vote, ladies -- how many of us, had we been in GZ's situation, hope we would have been able to shoot the scary black man in time?"
"Aye."
"Aye."
"Aye."
"Aye."
"Aye."
"Aye."

(Silence)

"Should we sit here a while so it doesn't look so quick?"

"OK. Or we could talk about something else for, say, 30 minutes."

:lmao

[CosmicCowboy]

Seriously, I expect a pretty quick, unanimous not guilty of all charges.

[Homeland Security]

Seriously, I expect a pretty quick, unanimous not guilty of all charges.
I expect them to convict Trayvon Martin by mistake.

[pgardn]

I profiled some upper-middle-class white people yesterday, just for a change of pace. Wasn't even carrying. Just gave them that polite half-smile with narrowed eyes, asked questions.

So were they wearing underwear or not?

[Homeland Security]

"Which one was the scary muscular black guy? He must be guilty of something."

"Oh, he's already dead? Whew."

"What? We were supposed to be trying the guy who killed him? Why would we do that? Shouldn't we be like honoring him or something?"

[Homeland Security]

They were in fact wearing the temple garments, yes.

[Homeland Security]

"Oh, THAT's the guy who killed him? With what, a lawn mower or something? Speaking of which, I need a new lawn service -- is he available?"

[Homeland Security]

"His name is Zimmerman??? Oy vey, WTF??"

[Homeland Security]

"I say we give that illegal alien guy a pat on the back and maybe a taco before we deport him."

[pgardn]

They were in fact wearing the temple garments, yes.

Yarmulke festooned privates?

Which neighborhood?

[Creepn]

"Which one was the scary muscular black guy? He must be guilty of something."

"Oh, he's already dead? Whew."

"What? We were supposed to be trying the guy who killed him? Why would we do that? Shouldn't we be like honoring him or something?"

I would appreciate if you stop insulting the intelligence level of my fellow caucasian Americans. They aren't all pussified dimwitted meatsacks like the way you proudly portray yourself.

[TeyshaBlue]

I would appreciate if you stop insulting the intelligence level of my fellow caucasian Americans. They aren't all pussified dimwitted meatsacks like the way you proudly portray yourself.

Speak for your self mr. blackey mcblackman!!!11111!:lol

[Homeland Security]

I would appreciate if you stop insulting the intelligence level of my fellow caucasian Americans. They aren't all pussified dimwitted meatsacks like the way you proudly portray yourself.
:lmao "Caucasian" OK, tell the fam back in Yerevan hi for me.

[Homeland Security]

I would appreciate if you stop insulting the intelligence level of my fellow caucasian Americans. They aren't all pussified dimwitted meatsacks like the way you proudly portray yourself.
Great-grandma was an octaroon, huh?

[Trill Clinton]

The intellectual dishonesty from team cowardnan is ridiculous. A true intellectual would be honest about the context and history of what's going on here. Being the intellectual juggernaut I am, its hilarious to say the least. Carry on...

[Homeland Security]

The intellectual dishonesty from team cowardnan is ridiculous. A true intellectual would be honest about the context and history of what's going on here. Being the intellectual juggernaut I am, its hilarious to say the least. Carry on...
Oh, dee out rage! We be dee indy-lick-shawls! Dere be contecks an' histee here! If you don' know, you can ax me! Swing low, sweet chariot...

[pgardn]

The intellectual dishonesty from team cowardnan is ridiculous. A true intellectual would be honest about the context and history of what's going on here. Being the intellectual juggernaut I am, its hilarious to say the least. Carry on...

I learned that packing Skittles makes one a passivist. The prosecution said so.

[vy65]

The intellectual dishonesty from team cowardnan is ridiculous. A true intellectual would be honest about the context and history of what's going on here. Being the intellectual juggernaut I am, its hilarious to say the least. Carry on...

A true intellectual wouldn't think some over-blown media event whose racial issues aren't any more developed than white guy shoots black guy has any context or history worth mentioning.

[Homeland Security]

Trill, Creepn, be sho da puddon dem smahtee pant glasses widdout dee glass in dem befo you make dem smahtee pant posts.

[vy65]

Wait, is trill the one that likes licking butthole, or is that the other black guy?

[vy65]

Because nothing seems more erudite than an intellectual going on about context and history with anus-breath ...