Official Trade/Signing Ideas Thread

[Chinook]

http://www.libertyballers.com/2014/1/16/5313588/sixers-trade-evan-turner-spencer-hawes-rumor

Sixers are, apparently, looking to package Hawes with Evan Tuner. They are also putting a deal for Thad Young on the back-burner (according to the article, they still want to move him)

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=nynauvm

A possibility, based on that report...

76ers Get:
De Colo
Bonner
Green

Spurs Get:
Hawes
Turner

I feel like that makes the Spurs significantly worse. Green ia better than Turner for what the team needs. Plus, he's a three. Hawes is nice to have in a vacuum, but not really starting with Duncan. Also, both will command big deals after the season. Too much to pay for a rental; doesn't make sense to re-sign. Beli over Green is a little better.

[spurraider21]

How does that make the spurs worse? Bonner and Nando mean nothing. Its basically Hawes and Turner for Green. That's selling high if i ever heard of it. No way Philly goes for that

[TheGoldStandard]

Amir Johnson would be very useful in nights light tonight, can spread the floor some on offense and has a big body and length to contest those jumpers.

[cd021]

How does that make the spurs worse? Bonner and Nando mean nothing. Its basically Hawes and Turner for Green. That's selling high if i ever heard of it. No way Philly goes for that

They'd likely be asking for a pick and I'd doubt the Spurs do that.

Turner can't shoot 3's and Hawes can but is a poor defender (and slow) both are free agents (Turner an RFA) and we really don't have cap space next season.

[dbestpro]

Green ia better than Turner for what the team needs.

Turner can put the ball on the floor, has learned how to get to the free throw line, plays as good defense, and is an inch taller, and a year younger 19ppg.
Green is a one trick pony who shoots the three 7ppg. If that is all we need then the Spurs have the ring in the bag.

[spurraider21]

Tbh if you can get Evan turner for Green you do it

[TheGoldStandard]

Not expecting anything to happen. Hell if Malcolm Thomas can collect a paycheck to do absolutely nothing more power to him but this front office has made some baffling choices that need to be questioned regardless what this team does in the playoffs

[cd021]

I've kicked around the idea of acquiring Al Aminu from the Pelicans. On a 1 year deal (worth $6 million)

Long, athletic, combo forward. Can't really shoot but is a good rebounder and in the right lineups could be an asset. Could help us guard the floor spacing PFs and small forwards (Durant, Lebron)

[TheGoldStandard]

I've kicked around the idea of acquiring Al Aminu from the Pelicans. On a 1 year deal (worth $6 million)

Long, athletic, combo forward. Can't really shoot but is a good rebounder and in the right lineups could be an asset. Could help us guard the floor spacing PFs and small forwards (Durant, Lebron)

At 23 and 6'10 his shot can be developed but it's those intangibles that we could really use especially on the defensive end. We need length and we need someone with aggression. Ayres has a nice guy attitude, he puts his hands up but doesn't jump or get aggressive.

[cd021]

Turner can put the ball on the floor, has learned how to get to the free throw line, plays as good defense, and is an inch taller, and a year younger 19ppg.
Green is a one trick pony who shoots the three 7ppg. If that is all we need then the Spurs have the ring in the bag.

Turner can't shoot and is inefficient. 19ppg on 16.5 shots isn't very impressive. Also we would have to adjust our rotation. As is the Duncan-Splitter starting lineup has floor spacing issues. Leonard has started to get going but adding a 30% shooter to replace someone who shoots 38% on a off night doesn't make a ton off sense.

Unless he can defend better than Green, Green seems to be a better fit. Maybe Turner just needs better teammates to shine, that always could be the case though...

[TheGoldStandard]

Turner can't shoot and is inefficient. 19ppg on 16.5 shots isn't very impressive. Also we would have to adjust our rotation. As is the Duncan-Splitter starting lineup has floor spacing issues. Leonard has started to get going but adding a 30% shooter to replace someone who shoots 38% on a off night doesn't make a ton off sense.

Unless he can defend better than Green, Green seems to be a better fit. Maybe Turner just needs better teammates to shine, that always could be the case though...

Better teammates, winning attitude and organization and some of the best fundamental teachers of the game. Chip could really improve his shot.

[cd021]

At 23 and 6'10 his shot can be developed but it's those intangibles that we could really use especially on the defensive end. We need length and we need someone with aggression. Ayres has a nice guy attitude, he puts his hands up but doesn't jump or get aggressive.

My thoughts exactly, Chip could, possibly, work out the minor kinks in his shot. We'd get a versatile player that could improve depth at both forward spots and it wouldn't cost an arm and a leg to get.

I'd like to seem him as a small ball 4 for the Spurs. Maybe along side Parker, Manu, Leonard and Duncan. Plenty of rebounding, length and athleticism between Kawhi and Al.

[Chinook]

Turner can put the ball on the floor, has learned how to get to the free throw line, plays as good defense, and is an inch taller, and a year younger 19ppg.
Green is a one trick pony who shoots the three 7ppg. If that is all we need then the Spurs have the ring in the bag.

Who told you Turner plays defense? And he puts up good PPG while shooting Rudy Gay--like percentages. He wouldn't be able to take that many shots with the Spurs so that's a useless argument.

How people look at this team over the last two years a come to the conclusion that Green's limitations are the biggest problem is beyond me. They got their wish and saw how much having a two-guard who "isn't a one-trick pony" and look how much that helps the offense. Seriously, it's mind-numbing.

[Chinook]

Tbh if you can get Evan turner for Green you do it

No you don't. That's like saying if you can get Rudy Gay for Leonard you do it.

[sasffl]

Bonner+ De Colo for Jason Thompson

[Chinook]

Still think Portland should offer Robinson for Blatche. It's clear that the Blazers need an upgrade to their bench bigs, and Brooklyn needs assets in the worst way. If they can get Robinson from Portland and trade AK to the Spurs or some other team for a small asset (Bertans or LJC) while buying picks in the draft, I think they can refill their coffers decently without hurting their present too much.

[sventhedog]

Still think Portland should offer Robinson for Blatche. It's clear that the Blazers need an upgrade to their bench bigs, and Brooklyn needs assets in the worst way. If they can get Robinson from Portland and trade AK to the Spurs or some other team for a small asset (Bertans or LJC) while buying picks in the draft, I think they can refill their coffers decently without hurting their present too much.

but why would brooklyn try to downgrade to an unproven bigman or wait for him to develop? didn't they get pierce, garnett and their other players to try to win as soon as they can?

[Baam]

We need a guard for sure, Beli doesn't cut it, gives everything back...

I like JR Smith better but I don't think they're ready to gamble on him, that leaves Gordon with the Pels on a big losing streak and desperate for a center... Gordon is not that good defensively but still way better than Beli and Mills and can play backup PG so putting Beli and Mills out of the rotation will be a big addition by substraction.

Splitter for Gordon

Then pack Bonner + De Colo (or even Beli) + 2nd round pick for a big with upside, maybe both Vesely and Seraphin who don't play and are expiring as well.

[Texas_Ranger]

Does someone really think Green is better than Turner? :lol Even Turner would hit at least 40% from the 3 pt line on the Spurs. Oh and he can actually dribble the ball.

[Baam]

Well I don't watch Turner a lot but Green does play D...

By far the most dominant team in the west is OKC thanks to their D...

Golden State, Portland and Houston all have incredible offenses but when it comes down to it OKC can play D at a level that the other teams can't match...

The thing with having a core of tired old shit bags is that you can't surround them with anything but good to great defenders or it's gonna be a big fail as we see with Marco the savior...

[dbestpro]

No you don't. That's like saying if you can get Rudy Gay for Leonard you do it.

You need to put down the Green colored glasses. The argument can go the other way in that it is more difficult to score points on a bad team because you are always double teamed. Green's inability to put the ball on the floor puts the Spurs at a disadvantage when he is covered or missing the three. It often feels like 4 on 5 when this happens. Yes, you send Green for Turner today, and twice on Sunday, and no you do not trade a rising star like Leonard for an aging star like Gay. This analogy is not even in the same food group.

[cd021]

We need a guard for sure, Beli doesn't cut it, gives everything back...

I like JR Smith better but I don't think they're ready to gamble on him, that leaves Gordon with the Pels on a big losing streak and desperate for a center... Gordon is not that good defensively but still way better than Beli and Mills and can play backup PG so putting Beli and Mills out of the rotation will be a big addition by substraction.

Splitter for Gordon

Then pack Bonner + De Colo (or even Beli) + 2nd round pick for a big with upside, maybe both Vesely and Seraphin who don't play and are expiring as well.

Belinelli, for the first time in his career his having a positive impact on a team. His career net rating (Offensive rating minus defensive rating) is -4. This season its +7. Thats actually a drastic improvement.

Moving Splitter for Gordon? Straight up? I wouldn't do it. Our big man core would take a massive hit without him. Obviously, you've never been high on him but specific to our team that would do more harm than good.

We'd probably drop from a top 5 defensive team to a top 10. That can be the difference in winning and losing a series. Keep in mind all 8 teams that made the Semi's last season were in the top 8 defensively.

Maybe a package of

Spurs Gets:
SG-Gordon
PF-Jason Smith
SF/PF-Al Aminu


New Orleans Gets:
Splitter
Bonner
De Colo
Joseph/ Mills

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=myqsu3u (http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=myqsu3u)

New Orleans gets out of a big contract and gives them a legitimate starting center, allowing Davis to play PF. They'd save $5.6 next season and have about $19 million in cap space.


That would seem to be a rather radical trade for a team that is 31-9. But it does give us a combo forward that can play behind both Leonard and Diaw (assuming he starts). Gordon has injury history and a big contract ( two more seasons after this one, for $30.5 million)

The Spurs would have $66 million committed to 10 players with Aminu, Smith, Diaw, & Baynes all free agents. So we really couldn't do a deal like that without going over the luxury tax.

[TheGoldStandard]

I don't hate Danny Green and his streaky shooting can be effective but teams are keyed in on him when he catches the ball around the arc and he has no other move. Every time he drives and flicks it up I think it's going over the backboard. He's shooting at a good percentage this year but his stats against elite team we could face in the playoffs have been crappy offensively.

For greens sake he has to hope Parker starts sucking in that defense to creat open looks. Dude has not been that much of a lock down defender this year. Problem with Turner is that he's a RFA at the end of the season, dont think he would stay here or if the spurs want to give him any money.

[Chinook]

You need to put down the Green colored glasses. The argument can go the other way in that it is more difficult to score points on a bad team because you are always double teamed. Green's inability to put the ball on the floor puts the Spurs at a disadvantage when he is covered or missing the three. It often feels like 4 on 5 when this happens. Yes, you send Green for Turner today, and twice on Sunday, and no you do not trade a rising star like Leonard for an aging star like Gay. This analogy is not even in the same food group.

See, it's that kind of attitude that led to the Spurs being comparatively bad from 2009-2011. The Spurs system has roles for their two and three, and deviating from those roles hurts the offense and defense. Putting the ball on the floor, having a counter to the three, it's overrated. Yes, it would be nice for Green to be able to do those, things, but his inability to do them doesn't hurt the team all that much. It's not his role to drive, or even to score. It's not the starting two's role to score in the Spurs system. Being a better scorer doesn't help. That's why Ginobili comes off the bench and Beli plays poorly when he starts.

Green's job is to be covered. That's what spacing the floor means. It's not 4 on 5 when his man sticks to him too much for Green to shoot much. It's 4 on 4. Green can also get open in numerous ways of the team wanted to give him touches out of the flow of the offense. He's not a corner shooter like Leonard or even a stagnant one like Mills. He constantly moves, setting screens and directing perimeter shifts. Is he a dynamic scorer? No. But he does a lot more one offense than Bowen did.

Turner not being able to shoot by all means prevents him from even being considered an option to replace Green this season. And with Parker next to him, he'd never get the touches. Right now, Turner is averaging 19 points on 21 possesions per 36. Green is averaging 12 on 12 while slumping. And this is the first year that Turner isn't considered a bust. Still, he's toting around an awful 110 DRtg despite outrebounding Green and has a third of the win-shares per 48 despite having a 40-percent higher usage rate. Essentially, he's been an empty-stat player in a contract year after doing next to nothing his whole career.

It's not that I'm a homer. It's that I actually understand Green's impact on the team. He is one of the title essentials, along with the Big Three, Leonard, Diaw and Splitter. There are players to trade Green for. But there aren't many this season that would clearly improve the team. That certainly doesn't include Turner or any other glass-cannon chucker, especially one that costs twice as much as Green does.

[Dverde]

I could see Spurs trading for Eric Gordon in the offseason if Manu retires. Not during this season. He would be the starting SG with Marco filling the sixth man role. No more Danny Green.

[palangi]

No you don't. That's like saying if you can get Rudy Gay for Leonard you do it.
wow this is not even true at all. very dramatic of a comparison.

you do the green for turner deal no doubt. especially when green is hardly playing for us right now. maybe he isn't as valuable as you think?

[tlongII]

Well I don't watch Turner a lot but Green does play D...

By far the most dominant team in the west is OKC thanks to their D...

Golden State, Portland and Houston all have incredible offenses but when it comes down to it OKC can play D at a level that the other teams can't match...

The thing with having a core of tired old shit bags is that you can't surround them with anything but good to great defenders or it's gonna be a big fail as we see with Marco the savior...

We've already beaten OKC both at home and away.

[Chinook]

wow this is not even true at all. very dramatic of a comparison.

you do the green for turner deal no doubt. especially when green is hardly playing for us right now. maybe he isn't as valuable as you think?

No. Turner is a younger Gay. Look up his stats and watch him. Don't just go by the name.

[palangi]

No. Turner is a younger Gay. Look up his stats and watch him. Don't just go by the name.
And he is still a better overall player than green. And brings more to the spurs.

Hard to judge a player who plays for such a terrible franchise.

[cd021]

And he is still a better overall player than green. And brings more to the spurs.

Hard to judge a player who plays for such a terrible franchise.

Turner can't shoot or play defense. 18.8 ppg on 16.6 FGs. That is pretty easy to judge. He is a high volume scorer and a horrendous defender (110 defensive rating compaired to Green's 101)

[TheGoldStandard]

Danny Green was on his way out of league, couldn't even get a taste of the floor in Cleveland and then he comes to San Antonio and produces so we can't base the production of Evan Turner on what he's done with Philly. Dude was taken 2nd overall in the draft and has had crap coaching his NBA career. Needless to say maybe with the Spurs they are able to do something with him, it's not like he's an old vet stuck in his ways.

[jesterbobman]

I don't get why people need to bring up the fact that Danny Green wasn't great 3 years ago. Yes, he fits the system, and that makes him better as he doesn't need to do anything he can't do well. But he's really good at the essential skills for a 4th/5th option in the starting lineup. He defends well and shoots well. Evan Turner can do some things well, but he's not great at those essentials. He averages more assists, but also way more turnovers, both due to a way higher usage rate. Even with that higher usage rate, He's only got a PER of 14. That's BAD, given the bias in PER towards high usage players.

Danny Green's TS% is almost 100 points higher for his career, which is huge. Efficiency from role players is huge, and Turner fails that. The fact that Turner was the #2 pick doesn't mean he's good now.

[ace3g]

Adrian Wojnarowski @WojYahooNBA
(https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA)Chicago is finalizing deal to send Marquis Teague to the Brooklyn Nets for forward Toko Shengelia, league sources tell Yahoo Sports.

Adrian Wojnarowski @WojYahooNBA
(https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA)Brooklyn is sending Tyshawn Taylor to New Orleans for a future pick and cash, sources tell Yahoo.

Adrian Wojnarowski @WojYahooNBA
(https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA)Clarification: Nets are sending Taylor to New Orleans with cash.

[TheGoldStandard]

I don't get why people need to bring up the fact that Danny Green wasn't great 3 years ago. Yes, he fits the system, and that makes him better as he doesn't need to do anything he can't do well. But he's really good at the essential skills for a 4th/5th option in the starting lineup. He defends well and shoots well. Evan Turner can do some things well, but he's not great at those essentials. He averages more assists, but also way more turnovers, both due to a way higher usage rate. Even with that higher usage rate, He's only got a PER of 14. That's BAD, given the bias in PER towards high usage players.

Danny Green's TS% is almost 100 points higher for his career, which is huge. Efficiency from role players is huge, and Turner fails that. The fact that Turner was the #2 pick doesn't mean he's good now.

We use Danny's stats as a Spur we don't usr Danny's stats as a bench bum or the fact that he was cut by the Spurs several times. Turner hasn't lived up to his potential but dude doesn't play in the Spurs system. I think the contract year plays a part in it but utsbalso the fact that Bret Brown is running the system there influences that too.

[Chinook]

We use Danny's stats as a Spur we don't usr Danny's stats as a bench bum or the fact that he was cut by the Spurs several times. Turner hasn't lived up to his potential but dude doesn't play in the Spurs system. I think the contract year plays a part in it but utsbalso the fact that Bret Brown is running the system there influences that too.

Lol, no. Green put up fine per 36 numbers with the Cavs. The Spurs gave him playing time, but he's pretty much the same player he was at UNC. Stop assuming the Spurs system is making him look good.

The Spurs have good players. The system isn't turning crap into gold.

[Bruno]

It really looks like Bulls are looking to clear as much cap space as possible for this summer. Dunleavy should be the next to go.

[TheGoldStandard]

Lol, no. Green put up fine per 36 numbers with the Cavs. The Spurs gave him playing time, but he's pretty much the same player he was at UNC. Stop assuming the Spurs system is making him look good.

The Spurs have good players. The system isn't turning crap into gold.

So you're saying that Danny Green would be starting for a contender in the league minus no dribbling skills, or finishing at the rim?

[Chinook]

So you're saying that Danny Green would be starting for a contender in the league minus no dribbling skills, or finishing at the rim?

Yeah. I'm sure the Heat would love him. He'd probably start over Sefalosha in OKC. He plays really well as a glue guy with stars.

[TheGoldStandard]

Yeah. I'm sure the Heat would love him. He'd probably start over Sefalosha in OKC. He plays really well as a glue guy with stars.

He's not starting on the Heat, lol... He starts over Wade or LeBron or Allen?

I can see OKC maybe going with himnover sefalosha but I dont know sef is a tenacious defender as well with length. The fact that he hasn't improved his weaknesses in 3 seasons doesn't help

[palangi]

Turner can't shoot or play defense. 18.8 ppg on 16.6 FGs. That is pretty easy to judge. He is a high volume scorer and a horrendous defender (110 defensive rating compaired to Green's 101)
that is not a volume scorer. Go look up some of iverson volume scoring or kobe from a couple years ago. that is volume scoring

and I stand by my statement, Hard to judge a player who plays for such a terrible franchise.

doesn't seem like team defense is taught there.

[palangi]

Danny Green was on his way out of league, couldn't even get a taste of the floor in Cleveland and then he comes to San Antonio and produces so we can't base the production of Evan Turner on what he's done with Philly. Dude was taken 2nd overall in the draft and has had crap coaching his NBA career. Needless to say maybe with the Spurs they are able to do something with him, it's not like he's an old vet stuck in his ways.
Thank you great point!

[Robz4000]

He's not starting on the Heat, lol... He starts over Wade or LeBron or Allen?

I can see OKC maybe going with himnover sefalosha but I dont know sef is a tenacious defender as well with length. The fact that he hasn't improved his weaknesses in 3 seasons doesn't help

He never said he'd start on the Heat, but if it was between him and an aging Allen, I'd take Green as a starter.

[TheGoldStandard]

He never said he'd start on the Heat, but if it was between him and an aging Allen, I'd take Green as a starter.

Aging Allen can still hit clutch shots, put it on the floor and hits FTs at a higher clip.

[Chinook]

He's not starting on the Heat, lol... He starts over Wade or LeBron or Allen?

I can see OKC maybe going with himnover sefalosha but I dont know sef is a tenacious defender as well with length. The fact that he hasn't improved his weaknesses in 3 seasons doesn't help

Allen doesn't even start. Battier does. He's pretty much a slightly bigger Green. Being able to dribble isn't really that important.

[Robz4000]

Aging Allen can still hit clutch shots, put it on the floor and hits FTs at a higher clip.

Yet he wouldn't start over Green because he's a negative on defense.

[Hoops Czar]

Yet he wouldn't start over Green because he's a negative on defense.

But Belinelli does and he's a zero on defense. Pair Green and Splitter with the starting unit and you're basically playing 3v5 on offense. Danny hasn't even been hitting his wide open shots and when he puts the ball on te floor, only bad things hsppen. There is nothing uglier than watching Green and Splitter trying to create. I can't believe the amount of disrespect in here for Turner, comparing him with the likes of Danny Green. It can only be boiled down to Spurs homerism and slanted takes. Anyone talking about evan turner's defense should look no further than Patty Mills. Green is far from expendible and nobody in here friggin gets it. If you want talent in return, you're going to have to give up somebody because teams aren't just going to settle on the Spurstalk usuals, De Colo and Bonner. The reason that a Green/Turner swap is impossible is because Philly wouldn't do it under any circumstances.

They might consider such a trade if you package him with with Mills/Baynes/Bonner and a 1st for Hawes and Turner. Anyways, Philly would probably want to do this deal with OKC because they have more assets. I really don't know why the Spurs didn't hand the reigns to Sam Presti while telling RC Buford to take a hike.

[cd021]

So you're saying that Danny Green would be starting for a contender in the league minus no dribbling skills, or finishing at the rim?

Thabo Sefolsha?

[cd021]

that is not a volume scorer. Go look up some of iverson volume scoring or kobe from a couple years ago. that is volume scoring

and I stand by my statement, Hard to judge a player who plays for such a terrible franchise.

doesn't seem like team defense is taught there.

He is a volume shooter. His averages 1.1 points per shot. If he were to take 11 shots he'd score 12 points on that shot. It may not be taught (obviously that is a relative statement, teams focus on defense too)

He is #99 in points per shot, tied with James Anderson. He is 25th in scoring. You're giving a him a benefit of the doubt. He has the 2nd worst defensive rating on the team 110 per 100 possessions. Only Hollis Thompson, a former D-league is worse. Swapping Turner into Greens role clearly wouldn't work nearly as well.

While Duncan and Splitter could help minimize the terrible defense his inefficiency and poor 3pt shooting (career 31.9%) would be hard to overcome. Green is capable of guarding multiple positions from PGs to SF's. Not to mention Westbrook (since the WCF in 2011) has been atrocious against the Spurs with Green guarding him primarily.

Last Season-

Jrue Holiday-17.7 ppg 43.1% FG 36.8 3pt% 75.2 FT%,8 apg, 4.2 rpg

He was on a poor team as well they won just 34 games.

-Iverson's career PPS is 1.21 whiles averaging 23 ppg
-Bryant's career PPS is 1.30 while averaging 25.5 ppg
-Turner's career PPS is 1.06 while averaging 11.3 ppg

[Chinook]

He is a volume shooter. His averages 1.1 points per shot. If he were to take 11 shots he'd score 12 points on that shot. It may not be taught (obviously that is a relative statement, teams focus on defense too)He is #99 in points per shot, tied with James Anderson. He is 25th in scoring. You're giving a him a benefit of the doubt. He has the 2nd worst defensive rating on the team 110 per 100 possessions. Only Hollis Thompson, a former D-league is worse. Swapping Turner into Greens role clearly wouldn't work nearly as well. While Duncan and Splitter could help minimize the terrible defense his inefficiency and poor 3pt shooting (career 31.9%) would be hard to overcome. Green is capable of guarding multiple positions from PGs to SF's. Not to mention Westbrook (since the WCF in 2011) has been atrocious against the Spurs with Green guarding him primarily.Last Season-Jrue Holiday-17.7 ppg 43.1% FG 36.8 3pt% 75.2 FT%,8 apg, 4.2 rpg He was on a poor team as well they won just 34 games.-Iverson's career PPS is 1.21 whiles averaging 23 ppg-Bryant's career PPS is 1.30 while averaging 25.5 ppg-Turner's career PPS is 1.06 while averaging 11.3 ppgThe Sixers also run the Spurs system. Sure, they have less talent than Pop's team. But with the other players on their team being decent offensive threats, it's not like Turner has to iso all day long. He's just a chucker in the Gay/DeRozan mold. Sure, there's a chance he becomes an efficient scorer in SA, but honestly chuckers tend to be chuckers wherever they go.Just cause Turner is more talented than Green doesn't mean he's a better fit for the team, as we've been saying. His role is hard to fill. That's why it took so long to do so.

[cd021]

But Belinelli does and he's a zero on defense. Pair Green and Splitter with the starting unit and you're basically playing 3v5 on offense. Danny hasn't even been hitting his wide open shots and when he puts the ball on te floor, only bad things hsppen. There is nothing uglier than watching Green and Splitter trying to create. I can't believe the amount of disrespect in here for Turner, comparing him with the likes of Danny Green. It can only be boiled down to Spurs homerism and slanted takes. Anyone talking about evan turner's defense should look no further than Patty Mills. Green is far from expendible and nobody in here friggin gets it. If you want talent in return, you're going to have to give up somebody because teams aren't just going to settle on the Spurstalk usuals, De Colo and Bonner. The reason that a Green/Turner swap is impossible is because Philly wouldn't do it under any circumstances.

They might consider such a trade if you package him with with Mills/Baynes/Bonner and a 1st for Hawes and Turner. Anyways, Philly would probably want to do this deal with OKC because they have more assets. I really don't know why the Spurs didn't hand the reigns to Sam Presti while telling RC Buford to take a hike.

-Patty Mills defense is at 103 defensive rating, Turners is 110 ( second worst on 76ers). Obviously, you want to rethink that point.

-As any of the aforementioned stats will show, Turner is a younger version of Rudy Gay. 18.8 ppg on 16.6 FGA. Thats far from impressive. He is #99 In points per shot, (tied with James Anderson) while he is 25th in the NBA in scoring.

-Green is a superior defender. Every person who watches the Spurs knows how valuable he is. Thats not overvaluing him. In game 3-6 of the West Semi' he held Curry to 36% shooting. Leonard was able to cover Thompson and he shut Thompson down. We won in 6.

His defense against Westbrook is quite possibly the best in the league. Westbrook is average 18ppg on 40% shooting in 5 games against the Spurs since the WCF in 2012.

Green is 5th in active 3pt %. Turner is a 31% career 3 pt shooter. Do we need our starting lineup to struggle even more with lack of spacing. Leonard has, just now gotten some of his long range game back. Adding a none shooter to the mix won't help.

-BTW Bellinelli is still better defensively (105 D-rating to 110 for Turner)

Parker/Belinelli/Leonard/Duncan/Splitter: 95.1/91.0 (102 min) [I ripped that from the Bruno thread]. The Beli starting lineup is actually still a good lineup defensively. Offensively its actually much better than the original lineup.

According to Bruno, the problem we have is that Duncan, Parker and Ginobili are hemorrhaging points when they all are on the floor together ( that's our close-out lineup)

-Splitter has the best O-rating on the Spurs-115 (of players who have played at least 600 minutes) His net rating is tied with Manu for 2nd best on team +13 (Leonard is +15)
Turner is a -12, just terrible.

Our offensive generally thrives when Splitter is on the floor. Not so much with Duncan and Splitter. He also leads the team in Free throw rate and offensive rebounding rate (both area's we struggle in).


Hawes is another poor defender as well and both Turner and him will be free agents after this season. We'd be inclined to attempt to resign at least one of them if we're going to waste a 1st rounder on them.

R.C. did sign Marco who is leading the NBA in 3pt shooting. He's not even making $3 million this season. Also Got Diaw after he got cut from the worst team in NBA history. Acquired Leonard for Hill, who has a higher ceiling.

Signed Parker to a great deal that helped keep the big 3 together (4 years ,50 million)

Presti did choose Ibaka over Harden. Or , depending on how you look at it ,Perkins over Harden.

[Hoops Czar]

The Sixers also run the Spurs system. Sure, they have less talent than Pop's team. But with the other players on their team being decent offensive threats, it's not like Turner has to iso all day long. He's just a chucker in the Gay/DeRozan mold. Sure, there's a chance he becomes an efficient scorer in SA, but honestly chuckers tend to be chuckers wherever they go.Just cause Turner is more talented than Green doesn't mean he's a better fit for the team, as we've been saying. His role is hard to fill. That's why it took so long to do so.

In a perfect world, if you combined Belinelli's offensive talents with Green's defensive talents, you'd have a complete player. Unfortunately, both of these players are hurting the team on one end of the court. You might think Green's offensive struggles would be an easier fix but his lack of handles and his inability to break free of defenders makes it a challenge. You can talk about floor spacing but there isn't a single Spur on the roster that commands a double team so most teams can play the Spurs straight up and force them into taking crowded jump shots. Teams with an inside presence are willing to take their chances with Manu and Parker driving the lane, forcing them into tough shots at the rim. The key is ball movement and it's been shoddy at best this season.

Not really sure how you can view Turner as a chucker. He averages 6.1 pullups/game and 6.2 drives. He's 10th in the league in points in the paint. When I think of chuckers, I think of the Danny Green's, Marco Belinelli's and Patty Mill's of the world. Green is about as one dimensional on offense as a player gets whereas Turner is a whole lot more. He's not only leading the team in points, but he's averaging 6.3 rebounds, 3.3 assists and 1.1 steals a night and getting to the line 5.6 times a game. Turner's problem in the past was that he never really received the type of opportunities under Doug Collins that he is getting now. Players like Jrue Holiday and Andre Iguodala dominated the ball for much of Turner’s first three seasons so its hard to make an exact assessment on Turner,s overall efficiency. This year however, he is shown the ability to makes solid decisions with the ball, has an above average mid-range game and has some serious toughness around the rim. Did I mention he's only 25? How long did it take TP to be an aggressive defender and a potent offensive juggernaut? Tiago Splitter was a defensive nobody when he entered the league and now numbers wise, he's the best. Players, who are young and athletic have the ability to improve in other areas of their game under the tutelage of the right coaching staff. I believe Turner can be one of those guys. With that said, RC Buford would be laughed off the phone if he suggested a Green/Turner swap.

Also from a previous post, I watched both those OKC games and Westbrook was 13-22 in the first game, not exactly a stealth defense performance there. In the second game, Westbrook had a lot of open looks and just missed them during his 2-16 shooting night. I don't care what numbers you put in front of me, there is no way Green is as consistent on defense this year as he was last year.

[Chinook]

To cover the basics of your post, Hoop.

Green doesn't hurt the offense by being dimensional. The role of the middle positions in the Spurs offense is to space the floor. It isn't to handle the ball or to drive. That's why Beli and RJ skills in those areas translated into better team or individual offensive production while they are/were with the starters. It's not that Green's role is confined by his limitations. It's that his role was already defined, and he plays it well despite his limitations. It's a legitimate point that the Spurs might want to change their system to expect more from the two. But that's a different debate.

We disagree on what a chucker is. That's fine. I'm saying it's based on the amount of possessions ended, not the type of shot. Turner is not efficient any way you slice it. And his strengths do not fit their system. You think Beli's bad? Turner would be even worse since he can't shoot. He'd also need to be paid like a starter, but he's historically sucked at the two. He doesn't have a place in the rotation, either.

Green hasn't been as good on defense this season, and that's why it's amazing that he has still impacted the team's defense so much. He still has another gear or two to rachet his game like most Spurs, but hes still a better defender and role-player than Turner can dream of being. Maybe Philly would laugh off a trade request of Green for Turner, but so would the Spurs. Their window slams shut after that trade.

[TheGoldStandard]

In a perfect world, if you combined Belinelli's offensive talents with Green's defensive talents, you'd have a complete player. Unfortunately, both of these players are hurting the team on one end of the court. You might think Green's offensive struggles would be an easier fix but his lack of handles and his inability to break free of defenders makes it a challenge. You can talk about floor spacing but there isn't a single Spur on the roster that commands a double team so most teams can play the Spurs straight up and force them into taking crowded jump shots. Teams with an inside presence are willing to take their chances with Manu and Parker driving the lane, forcing them into tough shots at the rim. The key is ball movement and it's been shoddy at best this season.

Not really sure how you can view Turner as a chucker. He averages 6.1 pullups/game and 6.2 drives. He's 10th in the league in points in the paint. When I think of chuckers, I think of the Danny Green's, Marco Belinelli's and Patty Mill's of the world. Green is about as one dimensional on offense as a player gets whereas Turner is a whole lot more. He's not only leading the team in points, but he's averaging 6.3 rebounds, 3.3 assists and 1.1 steals a night and getting to the line 5.6 times a game. Turner's problem in the past was that he never really received the type of opportunities under Doug Collins that he is getting now. Players like Jrue Holiday and Andre Iguodala dominated the ball for much of Turner’s first three seasons so its hard to make an exact assessment on Turner,s overall efficiency. This year however, he is shown the ability to makes solid decisions with the ball, has an above average mid-range game and has some serious toughness around the rim. Did I mention he's only 25? How long did it take TP to be an aggressive defender and a potent offensive juggernaut? Tiago Splitter was a defensive nobody when he entered the league and now numbers wise, he's the best. Players, who are young and athletic have the ability to improve in other areas of their game under the tutelage of the right coaching staff. I believe Turner can be one of those guys. With that said, RC Buford would be laughed off the phone if he suggested a Green/Turner swap.

Also from a previous post, I watched both those OKC games and Westbrook was 13-22 in the first game, not exactly a stealth defense performance there. In the second game, Westbrook had a lot of open looks and just missed them during his 2-16 shooting night. I don't care what numbers you put in front of me, there is no way Green is as consistent on defense this year as he was last year.

Green gets the magic rock treatment, just because players don't always go off doesn't mean he is the reason. When I think of improvement for the playoffs I see the same Green we have had over the past season which is decent at defense but offensively we can't rely on his scoring to help our team win against dangerous teams.

[Baam]

The more I think about it the more I want to trade with the Wizards... One of Vesely or Seraphin + Glen Rice Jr for Bonner + Cojo + second rounder or something (I'd even put Beli in the deal but that's just me)...

They decided to shorten the rotation so these guys are not playing at all anymore... Vesely was playing the best basketball of his career lately... Glen Rice Jr could be the two way wing project that could put us over the top, not as highly regarded as someone like Snell or Caldwell Pope but imo he has the tools...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hR3Zw38K5Q8

That's the D league I know...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mg-CW4i1aAk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3wF9t7tZWw

Vesely as a small ball center has the potential to be so scary, the guy is so quick for his size...

[Strategic]

Caron Butler bitching about his playing time...

8M expiring is pretty nice... He's kind of a shithead who can get under the opponent skin like SJax, why not... Would not get excited about the move but it'd be better than nothing...Spurs probably wouldn't help him with more PT.

[Brutalis]

We need to get John Henson

[cd021]

The more I think about it the more I want to trade with the Wizards... One of Vesely or Seraphin + Glen Rice Jr for Bonner + Cojo + second rounder or something (I'd even put Beli in the deal but that's just me)...

They decided to shorten the rotation so these guys are not playing at all anymore... Vesely was playing the best basketball of his career lately... Glen Rice Jr could be the two way wing project that could put us over the top, not as highly regarded as someone like Snell or Caldwell Pope but imo he has the tools...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hR3Zw38K5Q8

That's the D league I know...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mg-CW4i1aAk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3wF9t7tZWw

Vesely as a small ball center has the potential to be so scary, the guy is so quick for his size...

I do like Vessely quite a bit. But he will be a free agent after this season. If we trade for him around the deadline, he probably wouldn't get much playing time. By the post season, he'd have court side seats. The way I see it is we'd be moving bench players (who know our system) for bench players (who don't) we'd be better off keeping them.

[HarlemHeat37]

:lmao Evan Turner..

Turner's ideal role is on a team where he's a 6th man and is permitted to handle the ball..he has been an awful off-ball player throughout his career, and he still can't shoot, how exactly would he fit on a team where he would rarely handle the ball, tbh?..

Of course he's a much better individual player than Danny Green, but Turner wouldn't be fit on any team that doesn't utilize him as the lead bench player(Manu's role for the Spurs)..

If the Spurs are going to make a trade, they need to use their shitty assets to acquire a 3rd role playing perimeter defender, not another ball-handler, tbh..

[ElNono]

tbh, outside of MCW, the only other Phila player I like is Tony Wroten... not that the sixers will part ways with him, but he would be a great project under Pop... that said, we're full of guards....

[TheCerebral1]

tbh, outside of MCW, the only other Phila player I like is Tony Wroten... not that the sixers will part ways with him, but he would be a great project under Pop... that said, we're full of guards....

That's so true. A perfect upgrade over the crap that is Cory Joseph.

[CGD]

Trade for Brandon Bass. In terms of upgrading the roster for THIS year, the spurs could use a player that can reliably score off the bench in bunches. For all his knocks, it's what they had in Neal and don't really have this year on a consistent basis. Bass is a good offensive player that can put 8-10 points up reliably off the bench given the minutes.

[szkorhetz]

Trade for Brandon Bass. In terms of upgrading the roster for THIS year, the spurs could use a player that can reliably score off the bench in bunches. For all his knocks, it's what they had in Neal and don't really have this year on a consistent basis. Bass is a good offensive player that can put 8-10 points up reliably off the bench given the minutes.
He is a midget and he is really limited defensively. Pass.

[CGD]

He is a midget and he is really limited defensively. Pass.

In fairness, so was Neal for his position, on both accounts.

[exstatic]

In fairness, so was Neal for his position, on both accounts.

You'll notice that Neal is no longer here?

[exstatic]

Orlando is probably shopping Afflalo and Jameer.

Afflalo has two years left after this one. He was signed to be a part of a DH12 led team in December 2011, but is likely not in their plans now.

Nelson has one year after this one, but his deal is only guaranteed $2M out of a total of $8M if cut by 15 July. You could keep him OR cut him OR flip him again during the draft to a team looking to cut salary next year.

[mountainballer]

Afflalo has two years left after this one. He was signed to be a part of a DH12 led team in December 2011, but is likely not in their plans now.


huh? Afflalo was part of the trade that shipped DH to LA in the summer 2012. he was one of the parts that the Magic got back for DH12. he signed an extension with the Nuggets in 2011.

[mountainballer]

btw. didn't read anything about Afflalo on the market.
and if he was, it would be for a very high pick.
he is currently delivering borderline all star numbers and he does it on a pretty cheap contract. currently one of the best deals in the whole NBA. (looking from a teams perspective).
he just turned 28, should be able to produce at that level for some more years.
if the Magic deal him, it's because his trade value might be on an all time high. outsinde the Spurs reach. (unless they offer Leonard). nelson yes. but why would we want Nelson with Mills on the roster for 1/8 of the money?

[exstatic]

huh? Afflalo was part of the trade that shipped DH to LA in the summer 2012. he was one of the parts that the Magic got back for DH12. he signed an extension with the Nuggets in 2011.

Ah, my bad. Just saw the extension date.

[exstatic]

btw. didn't read anything about Afflalo on the market.
and if he was, it would be for a very high pick.
he is currently delivering borderline all star numbers and he does it on a pretty cheap contract. currently one of the best deals in the whole NBA. (looking from a teams perspective).
he just turned 28, should be able to produce at that level for some more years.
if the Magic deal him, it's because his trade value might be on an all time high. outsinde the Spurs reach. (unless they offer Leonard). nelson yes. but why would we want Nelson with Mills on the roster for 1/8 of the money?

This may be the most "win now" mode the Spurs will ever be in. They might want him because they have the contracts to get him and he's MILES better than any backup we now have on the roster. The Spurs vaunted fiscal frugality may be out the window since it's looking like it's this year and (maybe!) next year, and then BOOM goes the roster. He's also not a long term drag on the cap. He can be cut for $2M of his $8M salary for next year by 15 July.

[ThaBigFundamental21]

You'll notice that Neal is no longer here?

Exactly my counter. We let him go. The goal here is to get better. People here don't seem to understand. The Spurs IMO need to make a significant trade in terms of upgrading the roster for one last run. Getting that done and not subtracting talent we need is obviously going to prove very tough. The front office definitely has their work cut out for them. Holt is going to have to commit because this team is going to have to commit to some future salary to have any chance in doing so IMO. I really hope they figure something out, I think this team needs a little extra punch in the form of size and scoring, but at the same time that player has to be passable on D. This won't be easy....

[ace3g]

#31DaysTillNBATradeDeadline (https://twitter.com/search?q=%2331DaysTillNBATradeDeadline)

Feb. 20 -- 2014 NBA Trade Deadline (3 p.m. ET)

[Mugen]

I'm okay with the frontcourt rotation. Spurs need another wing defender to throw at Durant/Bron/George and they should be set for another deep run tbh.

[cd98]

I think we need to improve the roster to beat the top teams in the west, but I don't know who is available that will really make a difference. Too often the only available players are either talented, but on a bad contract, or just not that great or at least not enough to actually improve our roster in a significant way. Maybe there's a buy out of a veteran towards the end of the season. Sometimes that works. But I don't think any of the current players being shopped will do the trick for the Spurs.

[DesignatedT]

The New Orleans Pelicans (15-24) are reportedly looking to find trade suitors for Eric Gordon and Tyreke Evans prior to the NBA trade deadline.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1929806-new-orleans-pelicans-reportedly-shopping-eric-gordon-tyreke-evans-in-trade

[exstatic]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1929806-new-orleans-pelicans-reportedly-shopping-eric-gordon-tyreke-evans-in-trade

Already tired of Tyreke? :lol

[Hoops Czar]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1929806-new-orleans-pelicans-reportedly-shopping-eric-gordon-tyreke-evans-in-trade
I'm retty sure they're looking for more than De Colo and Bonner.

[Chinook]

I'm retty sure they're looking for more than De Colo and Bonner.

Wouldn't work mathematically, but that's not very far off from what they'd get. They would be trading him to get out of that contract, not to get a bunch of assets back. Evans' value is actually lower now than it was last season. They should hold onto him until the summer at least. It's like trying to sell a new car right after you buy it.

[Mugen]

Gordon and Evans would both be terrible acquisitions for the Spurs tbh. Pretty dumb of the Pelicans to let R. Lopez walk away for nothing in the offseason to be able to overpay Tyreke Evans :lol

[Hoops Czar]

Wouldn't work mathematically, but that's not very far off from what they'd get. They would be trading him to get out of that contract, not to get a bunch of assets back. Evans' value is actually lower now than it was last season. They should hold onto him until the summer at least. It's like trying to sell a new car right after you buy it.

It won't but, I'm pretty sure they're looking for draft pick compensation. They can do a lot better by waiting it out and looking at possible bubble teams looking to burst into the playoff picture. If they're paying attention, they'll probably look at teams in the draft range of 15 to 20 or they probably won't bother to make a trade at all.Bonner and De Colo save you what, less than 3 million? If that's the best they can do, then trading shouldn't even be an option.

[cd021]

Pelicans also looking for front court help, with Anderson out 2 months according to Y!-Sports. Aminu would be a good fit for the Spurs and we have several bigs on 1 year-2 year deals.

They can tryout any player they'd receive without being on the hook for alot of cash.

[CGD]

You'll notice that Neal is no longer here?

Sure, but that's not the point. Say all you want about Gary Neal, but he could get you 8 point off the bench in a hurry because he had a specialized offensive skill-set. I'm not saying he's perfect, but Bass at least is a player that can give instant offense from the post/midrange. Folks here get excited about the sexy young prospect when a vet with a specialize skill set may be the way to go to win NOW, not 2 or 3 years from now.

[cd021]

It won't but, I'm pretty sure they're looking for draft pick compensation. They can do a lot better by waiting it out and looking at possible bubble teams looking to burst into the playoff picture. If they're paying attention, they'll probably look at teams in the draft range of 15 to 20 or they probably won't bother to make a trade at all.Bonner and De Colo save you what, less than 3 million? If that's the best they can do, then trading shouldn't even be an option.

That does make sense. I wonder if the Bulls would look into acquiring, Evans or Gordon for Boozer. Hornets could get out of those long term deals by keeping boozer for a season.

[ace3g]

Yannis Koutroupis @YannisNBA
(https://twitter.com/YannisNBA)The Washington Wizards are interested in Greg Monroe, @AlexKennedyNBA (https://twitter.com/AlexKennedyNBA/) reports - basketballinsiders.com/nba-pm-wizards… (http://t.co/iSBPJ4aUHv)

[cd98]

What's funny is that over the last few years when Bud assumed control of the team after a Pop ejection, made sure to play the starters more than their normal minutes. He ditched Pop's limited minutes rotation, and went for the win. I remember he'd put Manu in and wouldn't take him out until the game was out of contention. He would never have forgotten to play the best perimeter defender and the only legit small forward on the team.

[Chinook]

It won't but, I'm pretty sure they're looking for draft pick compensation. They can do a lot better by waiting it out and looking at possible bubble teams looking to burst into the playoff picture. If they're paying attention, they'll probably look at teams in the draft range of 15 to 20 or they probably won't bother to make a trade at all.Bonner and De Colo save you what, less than 3 million? If that's the best they can do, then trading shouldn't even be an option.It saves $36 Million. I'm sure they'd like an asset or two back. But they'd be trading him for buyer's remorse, not for assets. I don't know why they didn't try to trade for Bynum, as he'd both save them money and could have been a decent big if they decided to keep him.Beli, Bonner and De Colo would get it done financially. Splitter would probably get it done asset-wise. But I don't think a deal is really there. Evans is overpaid.

[ace3g]

Rick Bonnell @rick_bonnell
(https://twitter.com/rick_bonnell)Raptors inactives today: Landry Fields and Tyler Hansbrough. At combined salary in excess of $8 million those are expensive non-producers


Fields is away from the team for personal reasons and will thus not play Monday at Charlotte, the Toronto Sun reports.


Spin: Coach Dwane Casey didn't indicate the reason for Fields' no-show, but he's rarely taken the court since Dec. 10, earning 13 DNPs in 19 outings, with 15 total minutes played in the other six tilts. Nevertheless, consider him questionable for Wednesday's game against the Mavericks.

Hansbrough, whose ankle is not yet 100 percent, won't play Monday in Charlotte, the Toronto Sun reports.


Spin: Hansbrough's DNP streak is extending to 10 games, but he's been able to fit in a significant amount at practice of late. Thus, a return seems as if it'll come to pass soon, perhaps as early as Wednesday's game against the Mavericks, for which he'll be considered questionable.

Alex Kennedy @AlexKennedyNBA
(https://twitter.com/AlexKennedyNBA)Rival executives think the Boston Celtics will trade Jeff Green and Gerald Wallace next: basketballinsiders.com/green-wallace-… (http://t.co/Btdi3xCakw)

[DPG21920]

Yannis Koutroupis @YannisNBA
(https://twitter.com/YannisNBA)The Washington Wizards are interested in Greg Monroe, @AlexKennedyNBA (https://twitter.com/AlexKennedyNBA/) reports - basketballinsiders.com/nba-pm-wizards… (http://t.co/iSBPJ4aUHv)



Odd when they have Nene/Gortat. I guess Gortat is expiring so they aren't sure if they would keep him, but still.

[Hoops Czar]

It saves $36 Million. I'm sure they'd like an asset or two back. But they'd be trading him for buyer's remorse, not for assets. I don't know why they didn't try to trade for Bynum, as he'd both save them money and could have been a decent big if they decided to keep him.Beli, Bonner and De Colo would get it done financially. Splitter would probably get it done asset-wise. But I don't think a deal is really there. Evans is overpaid.

Couple things. The 36M saved would be from the Pelicans persective. That's of course if they can pull off two seperate trades because no team is going to take on both those salaries ( Gordon one year and Tyreke three years). Both are guards which the Spurs aren't currently in short supply of. RC Buford, ever since the RJ trade hasn't been willing to gamble on big player contracts. Without the need for guards and the available cap space in the future, Tyreke is a no go and Gordon really isn't an upgrade over Mills at this point.

If the Spurs mak a move, it will be one of those far less talked about deals that has less to do with putting them over the top and more to do with regular season minutes eating and backend of the rotation depth at SF. I'll be shocked if the Spurs are part of a blockbuster. If they are, it would almost certainly be a three-way.

Also, Belinelli isn't going to be traded. As bad as his defense is, Gordon and Tyreke haven't proven to be any better. If anything, you'll probably take away from the offense because those players need the ball in their hands to be successful.

[Chinook]

Couple things. The 36M saved would be from the Pelicans persective. That's of course if they can pull off two seperate trades because no team is going to take on both those salaries ( Gordon one year and Tyreke three years). Both are guards which the Spurs aren't currently in short supply of. RC Buford, ever since the RJ trade hasn't been willing to gamble on big player contracts. Without the need for guards and the available cap space in the future, Tyreke is a no go and Gordon really isn't an upgrade over Mills at this point.

If the Spurs mak a move, it will be one of those far less talked about deals that has less to do with putting them over the top and more to do with regular season minutes eating and backend of the rotation depth at SF. I'll be shocked if the Spurs are part of a blockbuster. If they are, it would almost certainly be a three-way.

Also, Belinelli isn't going to be traded. As bad as his defense is, Gordon and Tyreke haven't proven to be any better. If anything, you'll probably take away from the offense because those players need the ball in their hands to be successful.

Was talking about Evans only. Completely forgot Gordon was in the discussion. The 36 comes from Evans' 44 minus the minimum 8 in expirings. No interest in Gordon. Otherwise agree with you.

[Mugen]

Jeff Green would be an ideal addition tbh. Nice to dream.

[ace3g]

Apparently Demarre Carroll did a good job defending LeBron tonight, his name has come up from time to time, if only Hawks weren't in the playoffs maybe Coach Bud could help us out.

[Spursfanfromafar]

Apparently Demarre Carroll did a good job defending LeBron tonight, his name has come up from time to time, if only Hawks weren't in the playoffs maybe Coach Bud could help us out.

He is someone I thought the Spurs should have gone after in the offseason. That Bud & Ferry picked him up suggests that he must have been on the Spurs' radar. Good pick up for them.

[cd021]

Benu Udrih requested a trade-according to hoops hype

http://hoopshype.com/rumors.htm

Cheap enough, experienced as well. Depth at PG behind Parker & Mills.

A proposal...

Iman Shumpert
Beno Udrih

for

Matt Bonner
Nando De Colo
2nd round pick (possibly a 1st rounder)


Knicks move Shumpert, who has seen his stock fall. (7 pgg in 28 minutes, 39%FG, 35% 3PT) Save more than $8.5 million in luxury tax next season+ his $2.7 million dollar salary.

Move Udrih, who requested a trade less than half a season after being taking a 1 year deal with the Knicks.

Bonner's & De Colo's contract are up at the end of the season. They can't stop anyone any way. Bonner fills the role as an elite floor spacer. De Colo would essentially be a tryout for next season.

Spurs get Shumpert, who can benefit from the open shots our offense can create.

Has defensive rep. (though, is to rather overrated in that area) he does have the the potential. He's 6'5 1/2, 6'9 1/2 wing span 42 max vert according to draft express

[SanDiegoSpursFan]

Knicks won't give up Shumpert for a 2nd round pick + end of the bench players.

[cd021]

Knicks won't give up Shumpert for a 2nd round pick + end of the bench players.

Stock dropping. They'd save about $10 million, if I did the math right. They did trade a 1st rounder for Barg. That pick could be in the lottery.

[Hoops Czar]

The Spurs don't usually go after players with an ego and attitude. He'd have a very forgettable and short stay in San Antonio.

[Baam]

The Spurs don't usually go after players with an ego and attitude. He'd have a very forgettable and short stay in San Antonio.

Yet they tried to get JR Smith since he got into the league and got SJax not once but twice... They don't mind attitude that much imo as long as you're good enough and working your ass off...

While it's not my first choice I don't see how Gordon is not an obvious fit for us, gives us another great shooter/creator and takes our two worst defenders out of the rotation...

Splitter for Gordon
and then a second move for a bigger wing or even a combo forward, using Bonner and even Beli or no one if it's someone who gets availlable following a buy out...

[cd021]

Yet they tried to get JR Smith since he got into the league and got SJax not once but twice... They don't mind attitude that much imo as long as you're good enough and working your ass off...

While it's not my first choice I don't see how Gordon is not an obvious fit for us, gives us another great shooter/creator and takes our two worst defenders out of the rotation...

Splitter for Gordon
and then a second move for a bigger wing or even a combo forward, using Bonner and even Beli or no one if it's someone who gets availlable following a buy out...

We'd have Duncan, Diaw, Leonard and Ayers rotation. Only one of those players can protect the rim and he'd be 38 at the end of the regular season. But adding another combo four could allow us to match up better against OKC, GSW and Miami.

Gordon does add $5.6 million to the cap next season. We'd have 10 players under contract for $58.5 million. With Mills and Diaw both FAs.

Pelicans Get
Splitter
Bonner
De Colo

for

Spurs Get
Gordon
Aminu
future protected 1st rounder


Hornets get a true center to pair with Davis. A replacement stretch PF, with Anderson out up to two months. De Colo is essentially a tryout for next season.
Both Bonner and De Colo are free agents after this season. They'd only be on the hook for the rest of Splitters $36 million dollar deal, which is front-loaded.

Spurs get Gordon, a very good scorer & Aminu who is a long & athletic combo forward

[Chinook]

The Spurs do not need another guard, especially one on a max contract who would be the fourth- or fifth-best player on the team. And it sure doesn't make sense to trade for Gordon without moving Beli. Aminu is nice, but only if he can be had for Bonner and sweeteners.

[look_at_g_shred]

The Spurs do not need another guard, Aminu is nice, but only if he can be had for Bonner and sweeteners.
Amniu. Ive been wanting this guy for the past two season. Make it happen RC!

[superjames1992]

Beno wants out of NYK. Can we trade the three scrubs at the end of the bench for him?

[monkeypunk]

Beno wants out of NYK. Can we trade the three scrubs at the end of the bench for him?

That fat ship barely made it out of dock but it did sail...

[Baam]

Well if Parker and Embiid really stay in college the idea of taking back Wallace for two 2015 picks was really good... But now everyone is gonna treasure them like crazy so its too late...

[HarlemHeat37]

:lol I don't understand why people keep wanting to trade for ball-dominant players, tbh..

The Spurs need high-end role players that can defend, not more ball-dominant scorers..

[Kyuui-Musikq]

:lol I don't understand why people keep wanting to trade for ball-dominant players, tbh..

The Spurs need high-end role players that can defend, not more ball-dominant scorers..

No sh*t. We have Bellineli, Patty and Ginobli all coming off the bench. What we need is another 3 who can defend well and knock down shots. If he can create in Iso situations when called for then that's a plus, but otherwise there are more glaring needs

[Chinook]

:lol I don't understand why people keep wanting to trade for ball-dominant players, tbh..

The Spurs need high-end role players that can defend, not more ball-dominant scorers..

On one hand, I agree with you. I don't get people thinking the team needs another ball-handler. The only open spot in the rotation is for a defensive forward. Gordon and and Turner don't really offer a net benefit.

But I'd also be willing to take on another ball-handler for the right price. It would be great gambling on a young player with upside if it only took the expiring deals. Ilyasova wouldn't be a bad get for Bonner and De Colo. Evans is too expensive, but he put up strong defensive numbers at the three the last few seasons, on addition to his better-known offensive accomplishments. No reason not to look for value.

[DPG21920]

As long as the Spurs don't trade for Jeff Green I will be happy.

[Bruno]

As long as the Spurs don't trade for Jeff Green I will be happy.

I don't see at all Spurs going after a high profile/high salary SF with them having Kahwi.

[Bruno]

425363117946576896

[DPG21920]

425363117946576896

Mark has been on fire with his trade predictions this year. Very well thought out, logical ideas and has nailed most everyone. Let's hope he has one more left.

[Robz4000]

425363117946576896

That'd be a great trade. Spurs would still have Bonner's expiring to work with too.

[DPG21920]

I don't see at all Spurs going after a high profile/high salary SF with them having Kahwi.

Me either - I was just speaking about a player I don't like.

[monkeypunk]

Would you guys really give up Baynesy for Dunleavy? Guy can contribute but he's already 33. Not sure if I'd pull that trigger. Bonner and Decolo all day, but the Aussie's got potential and he's young.

I guess I can see it as part of win now mode, but I don't have to like it.

[look_at_g_shred]

Dunleavey sucks.

[cd021]

The Spurs do not need another guard, especially one on a max contract who would be the fourth- or fifth-best player on the team. And it sure doesn't make sense to trade for Gordon without moving Beli. Aminu is nice, but only if he can be had for Bonner and sweeteners.

I know we don't need Gordon (or his massive contract) I was countering BAAMs Gordon for Splitter straight up deal. It would be interesting to see how high or low Splitters value really is.


I'd love to see a deal that included Bonner and De Colo for Aminu. They may go into tanking mode soon enough with all of the injuries and competition for basically 1 playoff spot. ( Assuming Dallas continues to play well and secure the 7th spot or higher).

If they can't move either Evans or Gordon they may make a smaller deal. According to Yahoo they are looking for help in the front court. Bonner isn't Anderson but fills the general role of stretch 4 for them.

[cd021]

Would you guys really give up Baynesy for Dunleavy? Guy can contribute but he's already 33. Not sure if I'd pull that trigger. Bonner and Decolo all day, but the Aussie's got potential and he's young.

I guess I can see it as part of win now mode, but I don't have to like it.

He's an experienced small forward. At 6'9 he can shoot and put the ball on the floor a bit. Would be a nice and cheap fit for the backup SF. Baynes won't play in the post season, save for blowouts or injuries. Duncan, Diaw, Splitter, Leonard and occasionally Ayers.

[TheGoldStandard]

He's an experienced small forward. At 6'9 he can shoot and put the ball on the floor a bit. Would be a nice and cheap fit for the backup SF. Baynes won't play in the post season, save for blowouts or injuries. Duncan, Diaw, Splitter, Leonard and occasionally Ayers.

For as much time has Ayres has actually seen this season I would think he'll get the nod in the Post Season even eclipsing Bonner minutes. Dunleavy would be a nice bench guy, not great defense but a tall scorer who can handle the ball and is another body to throw at the perimeter guys

[DPG21920]

I would prefer to keep Bonner over Baynes. Bonner is the only one that brings something different.

[RD2191]

:lmao

[SpurPadre]

I would prefer to keep Bonner over Baynes. Bonner is the only one that brings something different.
Something different? He's been doing the same worthless shit for over 7 years. Damn, the rationalization for this piece of shit albatross kills me.

[xmas1997]

Bonner is a specialist, nothing more.

[SpurPadre]

Bonner is a specialist, nothing more.
A specialist at choking every spring.

[DPG21920]

I don't know what is funny. Spurs have Tim/Tiago/Ayres/Boris. Bonner is the only one (outside of Boris who is not consistent) that can space the floor and hit 3's. Despite his shortcomings it's a valuable skill. He does something different than the other Spurs bigs.

[xmas1997]

A specialist at choking every spring.


It's no surprise he can't make a contested 3 to save his life, but he does force the opposing team to cover him.

[SpurPadre]

I don't know what is funny. Spurs have Tim/Tiago/Ayres/Boris. Bonner is the only one (outside of Boris who is not consistent) that can space the floor and hit 3's. Despite his shortcomings it's a valuable skill. He does something different than the other Spurs bigs.
That ''spacing'' myth hasn't been proven when it's mattered most. His shortcomings also overshadow his one skill of hitting open shots in the regular season in games we would've won anyways.

[TheGoldStandard]

Bonner has balked at more 3's this season than I can remember

[DPG21920]

That ''spacing'' myth hasn't been proven when it's mattered most. His shortcomings also overshadow his one skill of hitting open shots in the regular season in games we would've won anyways.

Spacing isn't a myth.

[SpurPadre]

Spacing isn't a myth.
Prove it and bring up his playoff stats as a spur.

[cd021]

For as much time has Ayres has actually seen this season I would think he'll get the nod in the Post Season even eclipsing Bonner minutes. Dunleavy would be a nice bench guy, not great defense but a tall scorer who can handle the ball and is another body to throw at the perimeter guys

It really depends on who starts and who comes off the bench.

Diaw starts and Splitter comes off the bench. I'd assume the Spurs would play Leonard with the second unit a bit more as the 4 with Splitter in as the rim protector and rebounder.

Splitter starts and Diaw off the bench. Diaw can't play backup center (he isn't a great rebounder and isn't a rim protector). Ayers would play backup center.

It really depends on who starts. But against OKC , GSW & Houston we'd close games out with small ball.

Dunleavy definitely makes since. Not know for his defense but is big enough to hopefully bother opposing small forwards for a few minutes. Gives us more length overall. If we trade for him, the Spurs would have a wing rotation consisting of players who are 6'6, 6'5 & 6'7, 6'9. Last season it was 6'6, 6'4, 6'7, 6'2. More size generally helps.

His ablity to move without the ball ,and put it on the floor a bit, would be a nice fit. Would help bolster our bench with Manu and possibly Beli and Diaw back off the bench come playoff time.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPENg-CM0rs

[DPG21920]

Prove it and bring up his playoff stats as a spur.

You prove that it is a myth. Just because he hasn't been great in the playoffs doesn't mean I would rather have Baynes over him.

[ace3g]

Yeah Dunleavy would basically be a bigger version of Beli, still would like someone with more of a defensive presence. He would add another good FT shooter you could have late in games.

[cd021]

Prove it and bring up his playoff stats as a spur.


:lol Spacing isn't necessarily about how many points he scores. PFs are forced out of their comfort zone and have to, at the very least, step out to about 18 feet to be in the range to contest a potential shot.

Last playoff. Bonner was +8 per 100 possessions. The Spurs were better with him on the floor 112.3 per 100 possessions when he was on the floor compared to the 107.7 without him.

Its downright laughable how a player who has averaged about 13 mpg over the past 33 post season games (dating back to 2012) is criticized so harshly when most stats show just how effective he can be in limited doses.

[cd021]

Bonner has balked at more 3's this season than I can remember

Balked meaning he is passing up shots or missing 3's?

either way Bonner is attempt 3's (per 36 minutes) at the 3rd highest clip of his career. He is also on pace to have his best 3pt % of his career (47%)

He just hasn't been used this sporadically in his time in San Antonio. 11 mpg thus far.

[cd021]

You prove that it is a myth. Just because he hasn't been great in the playoffs doesn't mean I would rather have Baynes over him.

I agree. Baynes has intrigue but Bonner has a unique skill set that most teams would kill for. Bonner certainly played well in last seasons playoffs. We got to the Finals. Baynes couldn't have contributed nearly as much in amount of playing time.

[ace3g]

List some younger SF/small ball PF trade targets:

1. Maurice Harkless

Older:

1. Dunleavy
2. Caron Butler

Random:

1. Travis Outlaw

[SpurPadre]

You prove that it is a myth. Just because he hasn't been great in the playoffs doesn't mean I would rather have Baynes over him.
You admit he hasn't been great in the playoffs so the burden of proof for the myth you're perpetuating falls on you.

[Robz4000]

Its been said but Butler will prolly be bought out. No reason to trade for him.

[ace3g]

Its been said but Butler will prolly be bought out. No reason to trade for him.

True but right now he wouldn't be able to sign with us, since we have 15 players.

[SpurPadre]

:lol Spacing isn't necessarily about how many points he scores. PFs are forced out of their comfort zone and have to, at the very least, step out to about 18 feet to be in the range to contest a potential shot.

Last playoff. Bonner was +8 per 100 possessions. The Spurs were better with him on the floor 112.3 per 100 possessions when he was on the floor compared to the 107.7 without him.

Its downright laughable how a player who has averaged about 13 mpg over the past 33 post season games (dating back to 2012) is criticized so harshly when most stats show just how effective he can be in limited doses.
:lol For being clueless about not realizing why he's out there in limited doses instead of having a solid backup big that can give TD a breather while not sacrificing so much on the other end. Why don't you bring up the defensive stats when he's on the floor?

[Robz4000]

True but right now he wouldn't be able to sign with us, since we have 15 players.

IMO De Colo will more than likely be traded by the deadline even if it's for a second round pick. If not then the FO has no plans to add to the roster and is comfortable with what they have already.

[timtonymanu]

Bonner is what he is. He actually contributed in the playoffs last year. He was key in the Lakers and Grizzlies series.

He's obviously going to be outmatched against athletic teams like the Warriors and the Heat.

The playoff choking label should have died down a little bit. Play Bonner in the right matchup and he will show up.

[SpurPadre]

I agree. Baynes has intrigue but Bonner has a unique skill set that most teams would kill for. Bonner certainly played well in last seasons playoffs. We got to the Finals. Baynes couldn't have contributed nearly as much in amount of playing time.
He played the best he'd ever played in the playoffs but it isn't saying much is it? He wasn't a vital reason we reached the finals either and if you think otherwise, I have a piece of land I'd like to sell you. And about the finals, he was a total non factor and with good reason: he fucking sucks.

[SpurPadre]

Bonner is what he is. He actually contributed in the playoffs last year. He was key in the Lakers and Grizzlies series.

He's obviously going to be outmatched against athletic teams like the Warriors and the Heat.

The playoff choking label should have died down a little bit. Play Bonner in the right matchup and he will show up.
You take Bonner out of the Lakers and grizzlies series and we still sweep both teams. My main point is that people put the fucker on a pedestal like he's some kind of indispensable talent that we'd be lost without and I find that absurd. The guy has like a thousand get of jail passes.

[timtonymanu]

That being said, I do think Bonner isn't going to be around next month. Baynes and De Colo too.

[024]

Dunleavy would be a decent pick up. The Spurs could always shore up its 3 pt shooting. Leonard seems to have regressed in 3's this year, Bonner shouldn't be in the rotation, Diaw isn't shooting 3's well either, and Marco has always been a streaky shooter. The rest of the Spurs that are around 40% in 3 pt shooting probably won't get significant minutes in the playoffs. That just leaves Ginobili (we all know how streaky he can be) and Green, who is injured. It's not his shooting hand but the injury is on one of his hands nevertheless. Might affect him when he returns. Dunleavy would also be a real small forward to back up Leonard.

But I'm still convinced the Spurs need to upgrade defensively. Their offense isn't championship level because they lack the superstar scorer but it's too late now. Pop made the decision to retain the big 3 hierarchy in the off season and he'll have to live with the consequences. Parker will inevitably get shut down again in the playoffs and Manu and Duncan will be too old to carry the team through an entire series. The Spurs' only hope is to shore up its defense and try to win it 2004 Pistons style. They should just look for the best wing defender available and make a hard run at him. Then at least the Spurs can shut down the other team's offense as well and turn the game into a coin flip slugfest.

[timtonymanu]

You take Bonner out of the Lakers and grizzles series and we still sweep both teams. My main point is that people put the fucker on a pedestal like he's some kind of indispensable talent that we'd be lost and I find that absurd. The guy has like a thousand get of jail passes.

Possibly. I'm only saying that Bonner contributed for once in the postseason last year so to say he is completely useless isn't fair. I'm also not saying he's untouchable and should stick around, but he does have a skillset that could be valuable if used correctly. And he's good insurance in case Diaw ever goes down, albeit a downgrade. The problem with Bonner's past postseason performances is that he was playing minutes as the 3rd big and sometimes even as the 2nd big. He should be in the 5th big role like he is now. He's more comfortable and will have less pressure and he did well last season.

He's not going to be helpful against small ball teams, but he is much better suited for slow, big man dominant teams.

[SpurPadre]

Possibly. I'm only saying that Bonner contributed for once in the postseason last year so to say he is completely useless isn't fair. I'm also not saying he's untouchable and should stick around, but he does have a skillset that could be valuable if used correctly. And he's good insurance in case Diaw ever goes down, albeit a downgrade. The problem with Bonner's past postseason performances is that he was playing minutes as the 3rd big and sometimes even as the 2nd big. He should be in the 5th big role like he is now. He's more comfortable and will have less pressure and he did well last season.

He's not going to be helpful against small ball teams, but he is much better suited for slow, big man dominant teams.
Sound argument, man. I was mainly reacting to a couple other posters who think it's sacrilege to talk bad about the almighty Bonner, lol.

[cd021]

:lol For being clueless about not realizing why he's out there in limited doses instead of having a solid backup big that can give TD a breather while not sacrificing so much on the other end. Why don't you bring up the defensive stats when he's on the floor?

Diaw is Duncans backup. Bonner's role for the past 2 seasons has been a change of pace player. There is no argurment to be made that doesn't play his role well.
Last post season his D-rating was 104 compared to his O-rating of 131 net positive of +27. :lmao I think we're done here....

[cd021]

He played the best he'd ever played in the playoffs but it isn't saying much is it? He wasn't a vital reason we reached the finals either and if you think otherwise, I have a piece of land I'd like to sell you. And about the finals, he was a total non factor and with good reason: he fucking sucks.

So You blame him just to blame him and undermine him contributions when he does contribute? He contributed in the Lakers and Memphis series. The GSW and Heat series were small ball oriented. Splitter barely logged 20 mpg in those series and he was our starting Center.

He is a role player. Not a star. Role players contribute on a run to a title. Stars carry a team game after game. One night Green may get hot another maybe Neal (last season) or Bonner.

[Sean Cagney]

I don't know what is funny. Spurs have Tim/Tiago/Ayres/Boris. Bonner is the only one (outside of Boris who is not consistent) that can space the floor and hit 3's. Despite his shortcomings it's a valuable skill. He does something different than the other Spurs bigs.

He played little minutes for once last year in the playoffs outside of a good matchup for him, the result back to the finals and should have won it. I see that first and foremost. he is good in a limited role and against certain teams, otherwise it's good he sits out like he did some series last year like the Warriors and Heat. In the past Pop would have overplayed him with disasterous results in those series. He is what he is.
Diaw is Duncans backup. Bonner's role for the past 2 seasons has been a change of pace player. There is no argurment to be made that doesn't play his role well.
Last post season his D-rating was 104 compared to his O-rating of 131 net positive of +27. :lmao I think we're done here....

YES he played his role well when used right in the right series! The other years Pop would overplay him in a bad matchup were a joke! I am glad he has played his role well the last few years. He hardly played in the playoffs last year and only in special situations, thats where he belongs (His role last year was perfect for him). He can play in some series vs slower teams like some have said, if you are playing the Warriors or Heat etc. with quick wing players he is a joke.

[Ice009]

Yeah Dunleavy would basically be a bigger version of Beli, still would like someone with more of a defensive presence. He would add another good FT shooter you could have late in games.

I've never even seen much of Dunleavy. The only times I've ever seen him play is games against the Spurs, and he been kinda average in most of those games.

If his defense is anything like Beli's, then I don't want anything to do with him. I'm OK with Beli for now, but he really needs to start showing some improvement on the defensive end, and soon.

I'm used to Bruce Bowen level defense. If you're an average defender when you get to the Spurs and don't improve your defense, then I'll jump on you very quickly for it. For example, I gave Roger Mason Jr. a pass the first couple of months of his first season here, but after he showed no improvement on the defensive end and actually started getting worse, I had pretty much had it with him. Lots of people still didn't realize that you won't get anywhere without decent defense and still backed him going into the playoffs. You all know how those playoffs turned out. Roger Mason Jr. was absolute garbage, while Bruce Bowen was one of the only guys that series to play with any heart. You gotta play defense or you don't win shit. All I want is maximum effort on the defensive end. If Dunleavy is a poor defender, then I really don't want him or anyone similar on the team. If he has some defensive potential and is willing to bust his ass on that end of the court then I would be OK with giving him a shot if the Spurs could get him cheaply.

[spurraider21]

i dont understand the desire to add a perimeter player with lousy defense.

[Hoops Czar]

It doesn't matter who they add. Not breaking news, but if the big 3 don't play up to their full capabilities, a trade won't matter. So many players are underacheiving this year.

[Ice009]

It doesn't matter who they add. Not breaking news, but if the big 3 don't play up to their full capabilities, a trade won't matter. So many players are underacheiving this year.

Yep that's a fair point, but if doing a trade - I think that we need defense over offense. Both on the perimeter and the interior.

The only reason to take an offensive creator type of player is if people think that none of the big 3 can step up and carry the load offensively in the playoffs.

[Baam]

Dunleavy would be a decent pick up. The Spurs could always shore up its 3 pt shooting. Leonard seems to have regressed in 3's this year, Bonner shouldn't be in the rotation, Diaw isn't shooting 3's well either, and Marco has always been a streaky shooter. The rest of the Spurs that are around 40% in 3 pt shooting probably won't get significant minutes in the playoffs. That just leaves Ginobili (we all know how streaky he can be) and Green, who is injured. It's not his shooting hand but the injury is on one of his hands nevertheless. Might affect him when he returns. Dunleavy would also be a real small forward to back up Leonard.

But I'm still convinced the Spurs need to upgrade defensively. Their offense isn't championship level because they lack the superstar scorer but it's too late now. Pop made the decision to retain the big 3 hierarchy in the off season and he'll have to live with the consequences. Parker will inevitably get shut down again in the playoffs and Manu and Duncan will be too old to carry the team through an entire series. The Spurs' only hope is to shore up its defense and try to win it 2004 Pistons style. They should just look for the best wing defender available and make a hard run at him. Then at least the Spurs can shut down the other team's offense as well and turn the game into a coin flip slugfest.

The best defender "available" is clearly MKG but you can hardly add him without getting rid of one of Splitter or Kawhi since he doesn't shoot the 3...

[Strategic]

Bonner, De Colo, Baynes for Channing Frye.

[cd021]

I've never even seen much of Dunleavy. The only times I've ever seen him play is games against the Spurs, and he been kinda average in most of those games.

If his defense is anything like Beli's, then I don't want anything to do with him. I'm OK with Beli for now, but he really needs to start showing some improvement on the defensive end, and soon.

I'm used to Bruce Bowen level defense. If you're an average defender when you get to the Spurs and don't improve your defense, then I'll jump on you very quickly for it. For example, I gave Roger Mason Jr. a pass the first couple of months of his first season here, but after he showed no improvement on the defensive end and actually started getting worse, I had pretty much had it with him. Lots of people still didn't realize that you won't get anywhere without decent defense and still backed him going into the playoffs. You all know how those playoffs turned out. Roger Mason Jr. was absolute garbage, while Bruce Bowen was one of the only guys that series to play with any heart. You gotta play defense or you don't win shit. All I want is maximum effort on the defensive end. If Dunleavy is a poor defender, then I really don't want him or anyone similar on the team. If he has some defensive potential and is willing to bust his ass on that end of the court then I would be OK with giving him a shot if the Spurs could get him cheaply.

I posted a brief highlight of him on the last page. he seems to move well without the ball. A good shooter and can put the ball on the floor a bit. Also 6'9. Put him in the rotation with Manu, Beli, Splitter/Diaw playing along side him off the bench and he could be a nice addition.

I would also look at net ratings before making a judgement on players defense (O-Rating minus D-rating) A player may not be great defensively but his offensive still makes him a net positive player. In other words his offense more than makes up for his defensive short comings. Thats not necessarily true for Dunleavy but for Belinelli and Mills it is, this season at least. Basketball reference has that sort of stuff. Interest stats for every Spur.

[Gervin44Silas13]

Would Noah from the Bulls fit into the system....that would be another big man?

[cd021]

Would Noah from the Bulls fit into the system....that would be another big man?

Noah for Splitter + Green +A 1st rounder

Bulls save almost $4 million next season (minus the cost of the 1st rounders salary)
Bulls save $5.7 million in salary in the 15-16 season.

They would have 4 1st rounders this draft.



That's deal won't happen but i'd assume that would be, about the asking price from Chicago to get the deal done.




Could he fit into the system? probably not. Our starting lineup has had trouble with spacing with Duncan and Splitter this season.

-Leonard and Green haven't shot the ball well or been able to get open to shoot enough
-Parker hasn't been quite as good as last season.
-Duncan's midrange game has struggled.

[Bruno]

Both spacing and defense are obviously important. Spurs don't necessarily have huge margin in both areas so getting a player that will significantly hurt either might not be a good idea.

Another question regarding a potential acquisition is if it should be more a SF or a PF. A SF would make sense if Spurs think that they will play a lot of small ball with Kawhi at PF in the playoffs. A PF would make sense if Spurs think they can stay big most of the time and if they don't trust Ayres and Bonner to play some minutes in the playoffs.You quite had to look at each playoffs matchups to know what is the biggest need.

[TheGoldStandard]

The Spurs will draft, trade for, or sign another SF/PF in about 2 to 3 seasons. That's about how long it takes them to tackle a team need. Any signing that happens this season might seem to be counter intuitive based on what we need for now.

[Kyuui-Musikq]

Noah for Splitter + Green +A 1st rounder

Bulls save almost $4 million next season (minus the cost of the 1st rounders salary)
Bulls save $5.7 million in salary in the 15-16 season.

They would have 4 1st rounders this draft.



That's deal won't happen but i'd assume that would be, about the asking price from Chicago to get the deal done.




Could he fit into the system? probably not. Our starting lineup has had trouble with spacing with Duncan and Splitter this season.

-Leonard and Green haven't shot the ball well or been able to get open to shoot enough
-Parker hasn't been quite as good as last season.
-Duncan's midrange game has struggled.

To to get either Noah or Taj Gibson would be so huge for us.

Noah though...he has the sort of tenacity and competitiveness that would propel us to a whole other level

[Richie]

This summer resign Boris starting at $4m, give someone a 2nd rounder to take Joseph off our hands, throw $6-7m at Marion. Perfect backup/mentor for Kawhi.

[Richie]

Noah for Splitter + Green +A 1st rounder

Bulls save almost $4 million next season (minus the cost of the 1st rounders salary)
Bulls save $5.7 million in salary in the 15-16 season.

They would have 4 1st rounders this draft.



That's deal won't happen but i'd assume that would be, about the asking price from Chicago to get the deal done.




Could he fit into the system? probably not. Our starting lineup has had trouble with spacing with Duncan and Splitter this season.

-Leonard and Green haven't shot the ball well or been able to get open to shoot enough
-Parker hasn't been quite as good as last season.
-Duncan's midrange game has struggled.

Chicago would need way, way more to give up Noah. He's the heart and soul of that team defence.

[Richie]

Also, how about overpaying for Sefelosha as a backup ($6m?) to keep him off the Thunder?

[ace3g]

Spurs might have to start looking for another SF :depressed

[ace3g]

time to activate that "unusually aggressive" trade search

[aal04]

--edit. wrong fred

[DPG21920]

Ya - spurs need to get a back up SF. Critical now.

[cd021]

Chicago would need way, way more to give up Noah. He's the heart and soul of that team defence.

They can only go so far with him. He is a very good player but getting a above average big and a rotation player in Green (who is another very good defender and a great 3pt shooter) also a pick in the 27-30 range (would be their 4th 1st rounder in this upcoming draft, if Cleveland and Charlottes pick is 13th or worse.

Also they'd be saving money over the next couple of seasons, allowing them more room to sign other free agents.

[cd021]

This summer resign Boris starting at $4m, give someone a 2nd rounder to take Joseph off our hands, throw $6-7m at Marion. Perfect backup/mentor for Kawhi.

Diaw's going to get rewarded with a paycut?

[cd021]

time to activate that "unusually aggressive" trade search

I'd be surprised if he wasn't out until the Allstar break.

[ace3g]

STARTERS
MIN
FGM-A
3PM-A
FTM-A
OREB
DREB
REB
AST
STL
BLK
TO
PF
+/-
PTS


Taj Gibson (http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/3986/taj-gibson), PF
43
11-15
0-0
4-6
1
4
5
2
1
3
0
3
+13
26


Mike Dunleavy (http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/1708/mike-dunleavy), SF

39
9-14
4-5
0-0
0
2
2
4
1
0
1
3
+19
22





BENCH
MIN
FGM-A
3PM-A
FTM-A
OREB
DREB
REB
AST
STL
BLK
TO
PF
+/-
PTS


Khris Middleton (http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/6609/khris-middleton), PF
18
3-5
2-3
2-2
0
1
1
3
3
0
2
2
+13
10


Caron Butler (http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/1705/caron-butler), SF

21
9-15
2-7
2-2
1
2
3
3
1
0
0
1
+9
22

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

Our three best defenders are now all out for at least 3 weeks.

Do you think a trade is necessary? Or do you think our line-up is just fine?

[Richie]

Diaw's going to get rewarded with a paycut?

I agree it might be a tough sell for Boris, but I'm not sure how much interest he'll get. Everyone else in the league should be nervous throwing money at him, look at what happened in Charlotte.

[Chinook]

It wouldn't be bad to trade off De Colo and 10-day guys until after the deadline. Too bad James Johnson is in Memphis. Anyway, wait until Butler and MaM are bought out.

De Colo for Singleton would still make sense for everyone.

[Texas_Ranger]

Spurs ain't gonna look for a SF, they gonna play Joseph there.

[Chinook]

Spurs ain't gonna look for a SF, they gonna play Joseph there.

Reminds me of the days of George Hill guarding Durant.

[Ice009]

Not getting a defensive backup SF in the off season is bordering on negligence. I said it before the season started, or just when the season started, but I stand by those comments.

Ridiculous stuff from the Spurs FO. Someone should be fired over this, or at the very least taken to the woodshed and beaten.

[exstatic]

Our three best defenders are now all out for at least 3 weeks.

Do you think a trade is necessary? Or do you think our line-up is just fine?

We're at the point now that we have SO few bodies that anyone we trade is lost corporate knowledge. Doing one of the 3-1 trades favored by many here would leave like 7-8 guys who even know the system.

[exstatic]

It wouldn't be bad to trade off De Colo and 10-day guys until after the deadline. Too bad James Johnson is in Memphis. Anyway, wait until Butler and MaM are bought out.

De Colo for Singleton would still make sense for everyone.
Are you talking about Luc M'ba a Moute? He's got two more years left after this one on his contract. There is NO WAY IN HELL that Minny buys him out of that much to see him play somewhere else.

[Baam]

Not getting a defensive backup SF in the off season is bordering on negligence. I said it before the season started, or just when the season started, but I stand by those comments.

Ridiculous stuff from the Spurs FO. Someone should be fired over this, or at the very least taken to the woodshed and beaten.

Especially when you know how many games Kawhi missed the previous two years...

But they don't give a fuck, got Thomas a 5th PF just in case something happens to the other 4...

[Chinook]

Are you talking about Luc M'ba a Moute? He's got two more years left after this one on his contract. There is NO WAY IN HELL that Minny buys him out of that much to see him play somewhere else.

Only one after this season, but you're right. I don't know what I was thinking there.

[ace3g]

Spurs better have another SF by Monday

[objective]

STARTERS
MIN
FGM-A
3PM-A
FTM-A
OREB
DREB
REB
AST
STL
BLK
TO
PF
+/-
PTS


Taj Gibson (http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/3986/taj-gibson), PF
43
11-15
0-0
4-6
1
4
5
2
1
3
0
3
+13
26


Mike Dunleavy (http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/1708/mike-dunleavy), SF

39
9-14
4-5
0-0
0
2
2
4
1
0
1
3
+19
22





BENCH
MIN
FGM-A
3PM-A
FTM-A
OREB
DREB
REB
AST
STL
BLK
TO
PF
+/-
PTS


Khris Middleton (http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/6609/khris-middleton), PF
18
3-5
2-3
2-2
0
1
1
3
3
0
2
2
+13
10


Caron Butler (http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/1705/caron-butler), SF

21
9-15
2-7
2-2
1
2
3
3
1
0
0
1
+9
22



Caron Butler is finished. He's been thoroughly outplayed by two young SFs on Milwaukee. He defends like a broken condom, stops the ball, shoots like garbage, and bitches to the media.

Any d-league call up or euro buy-out would be preferable to Butler.

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

We couldn't have to put our fuckin scrub PG on the best scorer in the damn league.

Downright pathetic.

We need to make a trade ASAP. Anyone that disagrees is honestly a blind homer.

[RD2191]

Spurs better have another SF by Monday
Malcolm Thomas? Seriously, why isn't he playing?

[Bruno]

We couldn't have to put our fuckin scrub PG on the best scorer in the damn league.

Downright pathetic.

We need to make a trade ASAP. Anyone that disagrees is honestly a blind homer.

Use the trade thread, last warning.

[dbestpro]

There is a guy who know the Spurs system, plays SF, leads the league in 3 point shooting as of today, and can be had for spare parts.

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

Bruno what are you trying to prove being so damn difficult on an internet forum? Did it ever occur to you that maybe, just MAYBE, this could be a logical discussion in a separate thread. Do you think people wanna go into this 32 page thread every time to discuss a specific issue?

[ElNono]

Bruno what are you trying to prove being so damn difficult on an internet forum? Did it ever occur to you that maybe, just MAYBE, this could be a logical discussion in a separate thread. Do you think people wanna go into this 32 page thread every time to discuss a specific issue?

lol this isn't a democracy. Shut your whore mouth.

[Bruno]

Bruno what are you trying to prove being so damn difficult on an internet forum? Did it ever occur to you that maybe, just MAYBE, this could be a logical discussion in a separate thread. Do you think people wanna go into this 32 page thread every time to discuss a specific issue?

About half of these 32 pages are about trading for a SF, so your threads have no reason to exist.

[ace3g]

There is a guy who know the Spurs system, plays SF, leads the league in 3 point shooting as of today, and can be had for spare parts.

?

[Bruno]

^HWSNBN ?

[blkroadrunners]

lol this isn't a democracy. Shut your whore mouth.

:lol

[TheGoldStandard]

At this point they need somebody at the 3, frankly anyone

[r0drig0lac]

lol this isn't a democracy. Shut your whore mouth.:rollin

[RD2191]

Ok seriously, Am I losing my mind or isn't Malcolm Thomas on this team? What was the point of signing him?

[Bruno]

Ok seriously, Am I losing my mind or isn't Malcolm Thomas on this team? What was the point of signing him?

He is a PF. But that's weird to sign a 7th bigman with your last roster spot while you are so thin at SF.

[RD2191]

He is a PF. But that's weird to sign a 7th bigman with your last roster spot while you are so thin at SF.
Well damn. I thought he was a SF:lol

[timtonymanu]

He is a PF. But that's weird to sign a 7th bigman with your last roster spot while you are so thin at SF.

I get the feeling Baynes and Bonner are on their way out soon. Hopefully for an SF.

[TheGoldStandard]

He is a PF. But that's weird to sign a 7th bigman with your last roster spot while you are so thin at SF.

The Spurs will go after a SF in 2 seasons, that's about how long it takes for them to address a need. Thomas will probably be sent to the D league soon with nando for god knows what reason

[TheGoldStandard]

I get the feeling Baynes and Bonner are on their way out soon. Hopefully for an SF.

Bonner is Pop's personal jesus, he will never be traded, in fact because kawhi was out Pop got giddy and put Bonner out there for way too many minutes

[Duncan2177]

I get the feeling Baynes and Bonner are on their way out soon. Hopefully for an SF.

Hopefully it's Bonner.

[Bruno]

I get the feeling Baynes and Bonner are on their way out soon. Hopefully for an SF.

We'll see but losing Leonard and Green should really push them to trade for a SF.

[timtonymanu]

Hopefully it's Bonner.

The team is in desperate need of an athletic SF so I think he will be traded. I know ST likes to say Bonner is Pop's favorite, but Bonner has an expiring contract and does have some skill that could be intriguing to some teams. I don't think the team would risk keeping him just because Pop likes him.

[TheGoldStandard]

The team is in desperate need of an athletic SF so I think he will be traded. I know ST likes to say Bonner is Pop's favorite, but Bonner has an expiring contract and does have some skill that could be intriguing to some teams. I don't think the team would risk keeping him just because Pop likes him.

The Spurs had a deficiency during the off season at SF and did nothing to try to get one, this included not cutting bonner to save cash and then signing ayres to his deal which ate up cash.. Sometimes the Spurs FO is stupid, they make mistakes. I don't think they trade him, thinking he spaces the floor for playoff rotations. Spurs will probably roll with what they have.

[TheGoldStandard]

We'll see but losing Leonard and Green should really push them to trade for a SF.

This makes a ton of sense but FO doesn't always make moves that make sense, we might see them pick up another PF/C or another Guard and try to convert them.

[timtonymanu]

The Spurs had a deficiency during the off season at SF and did nothing to try to get one, this included not cutting bonner to save cash and then signing ayres to his deal which ate up cash.. Sometimes the Spurs FO is stupid, they make mistakes. I don't think they trade him, thinking he spaces the floor for playoff rotations. Spurs will probably roll with what they have.

Wasn't Bonner's contract only partially guaranteed at the time? A 4M expiring contract is more intriguing than a 1M expiring so I can understand why they chose to wait. Of course, if they don't trade him, I am getting excited about nothing. But I won't hold out hope until the deadline passes.

The Ayres signing is a head scratcher. Maybe the Spurs thought they could strike gold like they did with Green, but he's obviously not a good player.

[Robz4000]

Just get someone that can defends 2s/3s ASAP. Tbh I bet they bring Splitter back for Houston. If/when that happens the D will improve to average.

[td4mvp2k]

so they can get a SF its time for deculo to go tbh dats for sure

[TheGoldStandard]

Wasn't Bonner's contract only partially guaranteed at the time? A 4M expiring contract is more intriguing than a 1M expiring so I can understand why they chose to wait. Of course, if they don't trade him, I am getting excited about nothing. But I won't hold out hope until the deadline passes.

Without getting into the underwhelming offseason and getting into Tiago taking too much and Ayres etc.. anyone that they sign right now is just a stop gap who probably won't even get much playing time as they shuffle the roster around. They won't get involved in the offense and they won't learn the defensive rotations.. Spurs will just roll with what they have and get torched during the road trip.

[TheGoldStandard]

RC has made a phone call to Bandera Student Milem Boyle to cover the SF position.

[Timmy4ever]

We need to kick Baynes and Thomas / still we do not use them/. Take from free agent Tyrus Thomas /his athletic young talanted better than Ayres/ and Lamar Odom / old but gold, his all rounder just like Boris also he can play at SF/PF/. And trade Bonner+CoJo+Colo for athletic big black monkey

[TheGoldStandard]

We need to kick Baynes and Thomas / still we do not use them/. Take from free agent Tyrus Thomas /his athletic young talanted better than Ayres/ and Lamar Odom / old but gold, his all rounder just like Boris also he can play at SF/PF/. And trade Bonner+CoJo+Colo for athletic big black monkey

I still remember Chicago rolling with Tyrus over Aldridge

[Chinook]

Nah, the team HAS to view Thomas as at least having some potential at the three. It literally makes no sense to sign him as a big when it takes two injuries to bigs and garbage time for him to see the floor.

And to think, the Pacers would have given up a first (or Plumlee) just to take back Bonner for Gerald Green.

[TheGoldStandard]

Nah, the team HAS to view Thomas as at least having some potential at the three. It literally makes no sense to sign him as a big when it takes two injuries to bigs and garbage time for him to see the floor.

And to think, the Pacers would have given up a first (or Plumlee) just to take back Bonner for Gerald Green.

They popped off and bought Thomas because he was torching it from 3 and Boris was hurt and they thought it could be long term. Then they figured why cut him, he could be useful next season as a bench guy but they don't buy into Thomas, he got run against The Bucks and that's probably all we will see of him till maybe late March when we are resting up players.

[dbestpro]

?

That's the difficult part for Spur fans. He plays for Utah. leads the league at 42.7% for the three, and is hated by most Spur fans. Yes, it is RJ.

[r0drig0lac]

We need to kick Baynes and Thomas / still we do not use them/. Take from free agent Tyrus Thomas /his athletic young talanted better than Ayres/ and Lamar Odom / old but gold, his all rounder just like Boris also he can play at SF/PF/. And trade Bonner+CoJo+Colo for athletic big black monkey:lol

[Chinook]

They popped off and bought Thomas because he was torching it from 3 and Boris was hurt and they thought it could be long term. Then they figured why cut him, he could be useful next season as a bench guy but they don't buy into Thomas, he got run against The Bucks and that's probably all we will see of him till maybe late March when we are resting up players.

See, I don't buy that explanation. I used to, but it's clear they don't view him as able to crack the big rotation this season. Bonner, Duncan, Baynes and Splitter have each missed time since Malcolm was signed, and he's hasn't once been higher than the fourth big. I don't think they ever planned on him playing for Diaw.

They probably just wanted to lock up what they considered a good prospect. But for the life of me, I don't know why they like him so much.

[monkeypunk]

We need to kick Baynes and Thomas / still we do not use them/. Take from free agent Tyrus Thomas /his athletic young talanted better than Ayres/ and Lamar Odom / old but gold, his all rounder just like Boris also he can play at SF/PF/. And trade Bonner+CoJo+Colo for athletic big black monkey

Nice slam poetry!

[stephen jackson]

there lets go
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=kf9hwmp

[Robz4000]

See, I don't buy that explanation. I used to, but it's clear they don't view him as able to crack the big rotation this season. Bonner, Duncan, Baynes and Splitter have each missed time since Malcolm was signed, and he's hasn't once been higher than the fourth big. I don't think they ever planned on him playing for Diaw.

They probably just wanted to lock up what they considered a good prospect. But for the life of me, I don't know why they like him so much.

Maybe they're legitimately worried that Leonard may choose to leave the Spurs and made the move to try to appease him a bit. I'm fairly certain the reason they signed him the first time was to help Leonard feel more comfortable.

[SpurPadre]

What are the odds we drop Malcolm Thomas tomorrow and sign Josh Howard?

[timtonymanu]

What are the odds we drop Malcolm Thomas tomorrow and sign Josh Howard?

Thomas has a guaranteed contract for the rest of the season. The only thing the Spurs could do is trade.

[ColinB]

We need to kick Baynes and Thomas / still we do not use them/. Take from free agent Tyrus Thomas /his athletic young talanted better than Ayres/ and Lamar Odom / old but gold, his all rounder just like Boris also he can play at SF/PF/. And trade Bonner+CoJo+Colo for athletic big black monkey

Damn, one of the better posts I've read in this forum.

[SpurPadre]

Thomas has a guaranteed contract for the rest of the season. The only thing the Spurs could do is trade.

Wow...bummer because I don't think a trade is happening any time soon, especially after that Ken Berger report came out that the team was pursuing one.

[TheGoldStandard]

See, I don't buy that explanation. I used to, but it's clear they don't view him as able to crack the big rotation this season. Bonner, Duncan, Baynes and Splitter have each missed time since Malcolm was signed, and he's hasn't once been higher than the fourth big. I don't think they ever planned on him playing for Diaw.

They probably just wanted to lock up what they considered a good prospect. But for the life of me, I don't know why they like him so much.

He's a cheap project that potentially fills a need if we don't resign Boris next year.

[Chinook]

He's a cheap project that potentially fills a need if we don't resign Boris next year.

That would be strange foresight considering the team didn't futureproof any other moves this off-season.

[TheGoldStandard]

That would be strange foresight considering the team didn't futureproof any other moves this off-season.

I consider it an opportunity that presented itself and RC and Pop probably looked at the writing on the wall, he's a cheap consolation if we can't secure Diaw or a legit replacement. Not a lot of stretch 4's in the league that can be had for cheap

[Hoops Czar]

A trade isn't going to fix everything that's broken. It'll just add to false hope and misery. The Spurs played over their heads for the entire season last year. Then RC completely and thoroughly crapped his pants this offseason pretty much sealing the Spurs fait. When that loser of a GM finally realizes the importance of filling team needs and not going out there and half assing it with a bunch of foreigners and long term projects with little to no experience, maybe he'll understand why he's so lousy at his job. This is RC Bufords send off to Tim Duncan..... PATHETIC!!!

[TheGoldStandard]

A trade isn't going to fix everything that's broken. It'll just add to false hope and misery. The Spurs played over their heads for the entire season last year. Then RC completely and thoroughly crapped his pants this offseason pretty much sealing the Spurs fait. When that loser of a GM finally realizes the importance of filling team needs and not going out there and half assing it with a bunch of foreigners and long term projects with little to no experience, maybe he'll understand why he's so lousy at his job. This is RC Bufords send off to Tim Duncan..... PATHETIC!!!

Spurs are not really an attractive place to play, the success the team has had with talent has either been thru the draft and then they are indoctrinated to the Spurs culture which ruins them for other teams or they get guys who needed a second chance and fill a role but nothing outside of that. Spurs also don't have a lot of money to play with like some of these teams who are willing to bludgeon themselves in luxury tax money.

[crc21209]

For people who think that we're the only team who gets lit up by mediocre-average players...watch the Indy-Phoenix game. Gerald fucking Green had 18 points by halftime against the #1 defensive team in the NBA. Goes to show you, it happens...

[TheGoldStandard]

For people who think that we're the only team who gets lit up by mediocre-average players...watch the Indy-Phoenix game. Gerald fucking Green had 18 points by halftime against the #1 defensive team in the NBA. Goes to show you, it happens...

It's a good thing Indy won't face Phoenix in the playoffs.

[Chinook]

For people who think that we're the only team who gets lit up by mediocre-average players...watch the Indy-Phoenix game. Gerald fucking Green had 18 points by halftime against the #1 defensive team in the NBA. Goes to show you, it happens...

Green's been great this season. He's finally getting open shots. He would have been a better add than Beli, especially since the Spurs would also have gotten a pick back.

[Chinook]

Starting to warm up to Baam 's idea of trading for Wallace if the Celtics are willing to pay enough for someone to take him. He's a good player who's massively overpaid. But who cares about that, really? He'd make the playoff rotation and can do a little bit of everything. He could even move over and start at the four for the last season of his contract when Tim and Manu leave.

I wouldn't do it straight up, but Bonner, De Colo and one of Beli or Joseph for Wallace and two firsts wouldn't be all that bad.

[TheGoldStandard]

Starting to warm up to Baam (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=43690) 's idea of trading for Wallace if the Celtics are willing to pay enough for someone to take him. He's a good player who's massively overpaid. But who cares about that, really? He'd make the playoff rotation and can do a little bit of everything. He could even move over and start at the four for the last season of his contract when Tim and Manu leave.

I wouldn't do it straight up, but Bonner, De Colo and one of Beli or Joseph for Wallace and two firsts wouldn't be all that bad.

Wallace? Don't need that Albatross

[Chinook]

Wallace? Don't need that Albatross

Why not? What would it be preventing?

[TD 21]

Apparently you haven't watched Wallace play in about two years, since that was the last time he was a "good player". Not only that, but he'd be a terrible fit.

The obvious trade is De Colo, Bonner and if necessary, something minor, like a 2nd, for Marvin Williams.

[TheGoldStandard]

Why not? What would it be preventing?

Too much money, doesn't hit the 3 well, doesn't hit FT's well and his DRtg isn't that great especially in comparison to his ORtg

[HarlemHeat37]

Ya, I'd be concerned that Gerald Wallace hasn't looked like a decent player in 2 years, tbh..

[Chinook]

If he were that good, he wouldn't have been traded thrice since 2011. I would prefer taking a risks (while getting assets) on Wallace than standing pat. But my order of preference is still to make a small trade, try out D-leaguers until buyouts (foreign and domestic), develop Thomas and Joseph, make a huge trade, then doing nothing.

I was the man screaming to trade Jack all last season as to not waste the Spurs' best asset in years. I simply don't believe in wasting trade chips.

[Bruno]

2015 cap space > Gerald Wallace.

[TheGoldStandard]

If he were that good, he wouldn't have been traded thrice since 2011. I would prefer taking a risks (while getting assets) on Wallace than standing pat. But my order of preference is still to make a small trade, try out D-leaguers until buyouts (foreign and domestic), develop Thomas and Joseph, make a huge trade, then doing nothing.

I was the man screaming to trade Jack all last season as to not waste the Spurs' best asset in years. I simply don't believe in wasting trade chips.

Spurs don't make major trades, they might sign someone in the off season to combat this situation for the following season but more than likely if they do that it won't be a sexy pick, it'll be some D League scrub or foreign guy. Spurs have a history of addressing problems that they've had in the past two years too late and then they over do it. Since 2008 the Spurs needed a legit big, didn't bring Splitter over until 2010 and didn't get meaningful minutes until 2012. Needed a legit wing for some time and didn't really address that till Kawhi came along after the failed bit with RJ, have needed a true backup PG for some time, still waiting for that too happen.

[cd021]

Why not? What would it be preventing?

Not too much. Acquiring his contract would leave us with 10 players and $61 million in salary. Assuming Baynes cheap contract is picked up. Mills and Diaw are really the only Free agents (aside from Thomas) off. There wouldn't be too much roster turnover. If we resign all 3 plus actually draft and sign our draftee, the Spurs would have 14 roster spots.They should be able to stay under the luxury tax.

[Chinook]

Not too much. Acquiring his contract would leave us with 10 players and $61 million in salary. Assuming Baynes cheap contract is picked up. Mills and Diaw are really the only Free agents (aside from Thomas) off. There wouldn't be too much roster turnover. If we resign all 3 plus actually draft and sign our draftee, the Spurs would have 14 roster spots.They should be able to stay under the luxury tax.

Exactly. Although Baynes is an Arenas FA and Thomas has an "option". You're correct otherwise.

Bruno, I agree with you in theory, but I have two rebuttals.

The Celtics agree with your assessment (in this scenario), which is why they'd pay in picks to gain the cap space. The entire point of having cap space is to use in wisely. Buying two picks isn't a horrible use for it. Also consider that the team may not even have cap space after re-signing everyone. You were one of the folks arguing to keep Jack to get 2013 cap space. How did that work out?

Wallace would be a huge expiring in 2015. So he'd probably have even more value than he does now. He may also revive his career in SA, raising his value more. It could be a similar situation as Seattle had with Kurt Thomas a few years ago. They ended up getting three firsts by acquiring then trading him. That's how small-markets use cap space to rebuild, not by hoping players sign there.

[Chinook]

Washington is so loaded on the wing that Singleton, Vesely and most surprisingly Otto Porter can't get minutes. The former two seem to be available for a matching expiring and a token sweetener. De Colo for Singleton and Bonner for Vesely have been proposed before. But Porter is interesting. Ariza is expiring and probably won't be re-signed. But he is starting and playing well, averaging 14/6/3 in 35 minutes. His (and Beal's) backup is Martell Webster, who's putting up 12/9/2 in 31 minutes. Beal is putting up 17/4/3 in 33 minutes. If the Wizards decide to keep Ariza, there's no room for Porter. But if they want develop Porter, Ariza will probably be moved very soon, as his value is really high.

Bottom line, I see D.C. moving at least one over Porter, Ariza, Vesely or Singleton within the next one. That's a huge situation to watch.

[Bruno]

Bruno, I agree with you in theory, but I have two rebuttals.

The Celtics agree with your assessment (in this scenario), which is why they'd pay in picks to gain the cap space. The entire point of having cap space is to use in wisely. Buying two picks isn't a horrible use for it. Also consider that the team may not even have cap space after re-signing everyone. You were one of the folks arguing to keep Jack to get 2013 cap space. How did that work out?

Spurs should have way more cap space in 2015 than 2013. The key or whether or not Spurs should take past 2015 contracts is if they plan to reload or rebuild.
If they want to reload, getting as much capspace as possible to go after biggest FAs will be a priority. Taking Wallace contract would be very prejudicial in that case.
If they want to rebuild, there will have some tanking years and Wallace contract won't really be an issue.

[Bruno]

Regarding the SF issue, trade isn't the only option.

An easy choice will be to cut an end of the bench player with a n expiring contract (Baynes, De Colo or Thomas) and then sign a player. It could be a vet or a D-League player. In the D-League, the best SF seems to be clearly Ebanks.

[szkorhetz]

Travis Outlaw? He does not play a lot, he is long, athletic, can defend and can hit the three. Bonner for Travis would work.