official offseason thread

[exstatic]

the spurs are much more desperate the warriors TBQH.

Any idea what the warriors tax bill will be this year? I’m thinking considerable, like maybe doubling their payroll. At some point, and I think they’re there, it becomes $3.50 for Every dollar over the tax. Ten million over the tax becomes a thirty five million dollar tax bill. Twenty million becomes a seventy million dollar tab.

There are different kinds of desperation.

[bluebellmaniac]

the spurs are much more desperate the warriors TBQH.

The Warriors window is closing. Could be a loooong time before more championships become likely. Best to earn everything you can while the bird is in the hand.

[JuneJive]

League sources have put the decline in the cap at anywhere between $3 million and $12 million.

Via - Letourneau

[Sugus]

I don't think it's likely to happen, but the Wiggins deal is growing on me, tbh. Even in a "weak draft" the prospect of drafting a top-two pick is always enticing, especially for a rebuilding team like the Spurs. Next year, they might not want to tank or do it unsuccessfully (or be screwed by the new odds, like the Knicks), making this a very valuable opportunity. Wiggins would be expensive, but it'd come down to the FO signing off on the deal and accepting to pay that cost.

I'm actually interested in how the locker-room dynamics would be, if the trade went down. I'm thinking the Spurs would trade both LMA and Gay, hopefully avoid shipping out #11, and getting #2 and Wigs. The important part is that they lose a lot of vet-presence, which had been stable for years, and especially if DeRozan walks or is S&T'd. There's a power vacuum there, a lot of place for guys to step up over. Wiggins is also known as a not-great locker room presence, content with just earning his money and not working hard on his development, which could potentially create issues if the Spurs players don't address it. How is a gym-rat like Keldon gonna react to that? How is a certified IG Baller like DJ going to react? :lol. Tbh, I'm not expecting Wiggins to develop in the slightest while in SA, he's a sunk cost to me, just hope he doesn't have an outright negative impact on the team beyond playing 15-20m a night. Could he even play off the bench? I could see Pop doing that, as a middle-finger kinda thing to light him up...

The trade would also leave Patty as the Designated Vet, and kill any hopes of him ever getting traded, for those who're still holding out that hope. But getting Wiseman (or Deni?) is worth the gamble, IMO. Then you draft a solid role-player with #11 and you're suddenly halfway through your rebuild, before you ever start tanking.

[exstatic]

I don't think it's likely to happen, but the Wiggins deal is growing on me, tbh. Even in a "weak draft" the prospect of drafting a top-two pick is always enticing, especially for a rebuilding team like the Spurs. Next year, they might not want to tank or do it unsuccessfully (or be screwed by the new odds, like the Knicks), making this a very valuable opportunity. Wiggins would be expensive, but it'd come down to the FO signing off on the deal and accepting to pay that cost.

I'm actually interested in how the locker-room dynamics would be, if the trade went down. I'm thinking the Spurs would trade both LMA and Gay, hopefully avoid shipping out #11, and getting #2 and Wigs. The important part is that they lose a lot of vet-presence, which had been stable for years, and especially if DeRozan walks or is S&T'd. There's a power vacuum there, a lot of place for guys to step up over. Wiggins is also known as a not-great locker room presence, content with just earning his money and not working hard on his development, which could potentially create issues if the Spurs players don't address it. How is a gym-rat like Keldon gonna react to that? How is a certified IG Baller like DJ going to react? :lol. Tbh, I'm not expecting Wiggins to develop in the slightest while in SA, he's a sunk cost to me, just hope he doesn't have an outright negative impact on the team beyond playing 15-20m a night. Could he even play off the bench? I could see Pop doing that, as a middle-finger kinda thing to light him up...

The trade would also leave Patty as the Designated Vet, and kill any hopes of him ever getting traded, for those who're still holding out that hope. But getting Wiseman (or Deni?) is worth the gamble, IMO. Then you draft a solid role-player with #11 and you're suddenly halfway through your rebuild, before you ever start tanking.

I don’t see GS accepting Gay. The object for them is to shed salary, not use their exception acquiring more. Wiggins and LMA are more or less an offset, except for years remaining. The way I see it going down is Wiggins and #2 for LMA, with SA either keeping #11, or flipping it in return for Minny’s 2021 pick that GS holds.

[talkspurs]

I don’t see GS accepting Gay. The object for them is to shed salary, not use their exception acquiring more. Wiggins and LMA are more or less an offset, except for years remaining. The way I see it going down is Wiggins and #2 for LMA, with SA either keeping #11, or flipping it in return for Minny’s 2021 pick that GS holds.

This is how I see it as well. I think they would like Gay but would not want him at his salary. I would try and get Miny 21 pick included but think they would say no at that point unless out 11 is included. We could possibly send Gay somewhere else for more picks this year even if they are later in the draft.

[szkorhetz]

The Warriors window is closing. Could be a loooong time before more championships become likely. Best to earn everything you can while the bird is in the hand.
What? I would still bet on the Warriors before anybody else. Two top three players in their position, one top 5, the likely top 3 coach, and a huge free agency destination plus the #2 pick

[exstatic]

What? I would still bet on the Warriors before anybody else. Two top three players in their position, one top 5, the likely top 3 coach, and a huge free agency destination plus the #2 pick

You’re completely whiffing on the GS situation. They are worse than cap bound,they are tax bound, likely in the area of $3.50 penalty per $1 over. That $9M #2 pick suddenly becomes a $40M/year liability, tax included. That’s an alarm bell ringing in a down NBA economy. They were kind of counting on that new arena to pay the bills, and now, who knows how long that will take.

The two top 3 players, assuming they’re the Splash Brothers, are both coming off major injuries. Draymond isn’t top 5. He proved what a lot of us knew all along: he’s fools gold. His game is 100% a function of playing with the REAL stars on his team. He’s a piece,not a building block, or a star.

[R. DeMurre]

I just don't see a guy at #2 that looks like a future franchise player. Wiseman might be really good, but teams aren't built around traditional 7' centers anymore. The guard comps are Oladipo for Edwards-- nice, but not mindblowing. Ball feels like a lesser version of Ben Simmons to me, Obi Toppin looks like a career defensive liability whose ceiling is big numbers guy who doesn't win championships, and I'm not sold on Avdija. If there was a player that I legitimately thought could be a foundation for high level winning basketball for the next decade I'd be all in on taking on the Wiggins contract, but I'm just not feeling it for this draft. If it happens, I hope I'm wrong.

[Sugus]

I don’t see GS accepting Gay. The object for them is to shed salary, not use their exception acquiring more. Wiggins and LMA are more or less an offset, except for years remaining. The way I see it going down is Wiggins and #2 for LMA, with SA either keeping #11, or flipping it in return for Minny’s 2021 pick that GS holds.

I can see that. Tbh, as long as we don't ship out #11, I wouldn't mind keeping Gay. I don't really trust the Minny pick to be as good as advertised, I'd rather trade down with Boston for example if we're already getting #2. Get a top-of-the-crop prospect and two additional, inexpensive first round picks to compliment the young core, and come into next season with a mostly young team that's ready to develop.

[bluebellmaniac]

What? I would still bet on the Warriors before anybody else. Two top three players in their position, one top 5, the likely top 3 coach, and a huge free agency destination plus the #2 pick

Right, but look at their ages. You have to ring now or it's over after about 3 yrs.

[Sugus]

I just don't see a guy at #2 that looks like a future franchise player. Wiseman might be really good, but teams aren't built around traditional 7' centers anymore. The guard comps are Oladipo for Edwards-- nice, but not mindblowing. Ball feels like a lesser version of Ben Simmons to me, Obi Toppin looks like a career defensive liability whose ceiling is big numbers guy who doesn't win championships, and I'm not sold on Avdija. If there was a player that I legitimately thought could be a foundation for high level winning basketball for the next decade I'd be all in on taking in the Wiggins contract, but I'm just not feeling it for this draft. If it happens, I hope I'm wrong.

I'd be aiming for either Wiseman or Avdija. I don't really like Edwards, Ball is an absolute hard pass, Toppin has no place in the top-2 of a draft IMO. I think there's a lot of unknowns surrounding Wiseman due to the low amount of games he played this season, but he's got a really impressive physical profile. I don't know whether he can be a franchise player (it doesn't look like anyone in this draft can be, but then again, most drafts have one or more "certain future stars" that end up busting, and the opposite as well) - but he at the least can fill up the C position for a good decade, provide a big plus on both ends of the floor, and really compliment our core of mostly guards. You throw a good role-playing PF in there (hopefully someone like Smith with #11 if we manage to keep it), and that's a really good core with huge room for growth. Championship-caliber? Who knows, probably not, but creating a team as close to contention as possible and waiting for the right chance has been the MO for a lot of championship-calibre teams, most recently the Heat.

[Seventyniner]

imo Wiggins is a huge albatross contract for 3 full years, not just 2. When he's an expiring the only thing he would be good for is to take on more bad money and an asset or two, and that once again locks up a lot of cap room on a bad contract.

[PhantomDashCam]

Not buying the ball hype either, and I actually think he is a candidate to slide out of the top 5.
When you look at the top 10 mocked, consensus picks - he has seemingly the most glaring weaknesses.
And we are not talking 2 or 3 here...
He will need to have the keys to the offence to be successful early and who in the top 6 could that come from?

[Thomas82]

I'd be aiming for either Wiseman or Avdija. I don't really like Edwards, Ball is an absolute hard pass, Toppin has no place in the top-2 of a draft IMO. I think there's a lot of unknowns surrounding Wiseman due to the low amount of games he played this season, but he's got a really impressive physical profile. I don't know whether he can be a franchise player (it doesn't look like anyone in this draft can be, but then again, most drafts have one or more "certain future stars" that end up busting, and the opposite as well) - but he at the least can fill up the C position for a good decade, provide a big plus on both ends of the floor, and really compliment our core of mostly guards. You throw a good role-playing PF in there (hopefully someone like Smith with #11 if we manage to keep it), and that's a really good core with huge room for growth. Championship-caliber? Who knows, probably not, but creating a team as close to contention as possible and waiting for the right chance has been the MO for a lot of championship-calibre teams, most recently the Heat.

Man, if we come away from this draft with both James Wiseman and Jalen Smith, I wouldn't know how to act. I've actually been thinking about that for the past couple of weeks.

[Dejounte]

Man, if we come away from this draft with both James Wiseman and Jalen Smith, I wouldn't know how to act. I've actually been thinking about that for the past couple of weeks.

We'd be set for a decade in the frontcourt.

[Prime BEEF]

I just don't see a guy at #2 that looks like a future franchise player. Wiseman might be really good, but teams aren't built around traditional 7' centers anymore. The guard comps are Oladipo for Edwards-- nice, but not mindblowing. Ball feels like a lesser version of Ben Simmons to me, Obi Toppin looks like a career defensive liability whose ceiling is big numbers guy who doesn't win championships, and I'm not sold on Avdija. If there was a player that I legitimately thought could be a foundation for high level winning basketball for the next decade I'd be all in on taking on the Wiggins contract, but I'm just not feeling it for this draft. If it happens, I hope I'm wrong.
Think the 2 safest players in this draft are Halliburton and Tyler Bey. They will both contribute right away. Halliburton can lead a franchise but Bey won’t be franchise player but should be a solid starter. Nesmith and Toppin could be good on the right teams but they are complementary players and not franchise players.

[objective]

late to the party, but if GS is wacky enough to do #2 + Wiggins for just LMA then I think it's an easy call to do the deal.

Wiggins is at least a decent NBA player, unlike some of the other albatross contracts in the league like Batum who has been finished for years.

Now if GS was insisting on getting #11 back ... eh, I don't know. I'd try to buy them off with the second rounder + rights to Milutinov or something like that instead.

------------

Earlier I think in this thread was a suggestion of Walker for PJ Tucker or something like that, I think that'd be a terrible deal. Tucker is fully washed now, D'Antoni ran him into the ground, I don't want him.

------------

I'm not opposed to moving Walker. I suggested it before and it may be far-fetched but I think Detroit could be in the market for a player like Walker, a guy on the verge of busting out with years of team control left. Walker+41+rights-to-Milutinov for #7 is my ideal scenario. Walker would score 15 a game there, maybe more. But he's kind of bottlenecked here. But still valuable enough to demand a solid return for a guy who just needs the opportunity.

[itzsoweezee]

imo Wiggins is a huge albatross contract for 3 full years, not just 2. When he's an expiring the only thing he would be good for is to take on more bad money and an asset or two, and that once again locks up a lot of cap room on a bad contract.


Taking on one of the worst contracts in the league for the right to draft a player at #2, who very well might turn out to be worse than the players taken far later is just dumb.

This is not a draft you trade up for. And it is definitely not a draft you trade up for whole also taking on a huge stinker of a contract. I pray the spurs are not that dumb

[exstatic]

Taking on one of the worst contracts in the league for the right to draft a player at #2, who very well might turn out to be worse than the players taken far later is just dumb.

This is not a draft you trade up for. And it is definitely not a draft you trade up for whole also taking on a huge stinker of a contract. I pray the spurs are not that dumb

Westbrook is one of the worst contracts in the league, as is Wall. Both of them have health issues and make north of $40M per year. While I’m not a fan of Wiggins game, he’s at least young and healthy, and not in the same zip code as those Super Max deals.

[Thomas82]

We'd be set for a decade in the frontcourt.

No doubt!!

[tbdog]

-I don't know if I agree with that logic; If say the Spurs were to trade for the number 2 pick-- and take on Wiggins for--then that means there is a player that they covet enough to eat one of the worst contracts in the NBA.

That also means that they probably wouldn't mind paying the player that they wanted the rookie scale. Plus the Spurs usually don't miss on picks, so them nailing a pick in a tier higher than than their used to drafting, means that they might be drafting a star.

-Wiggins deal is prohibitive and the fact that the cap isn't likely to increase in the near future, makes it a worse contract. Still the Spurs getting a shot a star--without completely tanking, ahead of a rebuild is going to come with a catch and Wiggins would likely be it.

Also if the Spurs were to ship out LMA and Gay as a part of a deal for Wiggins, then essentially, the Spurs would only be paying Wiggins for two seasons of Wiggins at 31 and 33 and he'd be a big expiring in his final season.

I agree that if the Spurs take on Wiggins, then they are very very high on a rookie. And if that is the case, I would be excited. But here in Spurstalk, people here have this weird perception that we are not going anywhere, therefore just get a high pick at the cost of our best player and at the cost of getting one of the worst contracts. It's the wrong mentality.


Wiggins contract is a net negative. It is untradable for 2 seasons without giving up an asset in return. His value becomes somewhat even only on his expiring season.


You have to assume that rookie at number 2 is going to be worth 40mil in cap space gone. That is over a third of your cap.


Usually, when you give up by the far the best player in the trade, you want two of these three things.


1) A promising prospect.
2) Cap Space
3) Draft pick.


Spurs would be getting a promising prospect. No further future 1st that would be worthwhile. And no cap space flexibility for 3 seasons.

[exstatic]

I agree that if the Spurs take on Wiggins, then they are very very high on a rookie. And if that is the case, I would be excited. But here in Spurstalk, people here have this weird perception that we are not going anywhere, therefore just get a high pick at the cost of our best player and at the cost of getting one of the worst contracts. It's the wrong mentality.


Wiggins contract is a net negative. It is untradable for 2 seasons without giving up an asset in return. His value becomes somewhat even only on his expiring season.


You have to assume that rookie at number 2 is going to be worth 40mil in cap space gone. That is over a third of your cap.


Usually, when you give up by the far the best player in the trade, you want two of these three things.


1) A promising prospect.
2) Cap Space
3) Draft pick.


Spurs would be getting a promising prospect. No further future 1st that would be worthwhile. And no cap space flexibility for 3 seasons.

LMA has pretty much said he’s finishing his career in Portland, so it almost certain he walks next summer, anyway. I don’t see any scenario where he re-signs here again. Not much value for us. He’s more valuable to GS, and he might re-sign there if he gets a ring. Then again, he might not. He should be considered useful salary ballast for purposes of this deal. That makes it GS conveying #2 for two years rental of LMA’s salary slot, plus a relatively young, healthy player, who to this point hasn’t been very efficient.

Note: we need to either keep #11, or get Minny’s 2021 first rounder. I’m not down with a straight pick swap.

[Sugus]

Man, if we come away from this draft with both James Wiseman and Jalen Smith, I wouldn't know how to act. I've actually been thinking about that for the past couple of weeks.

That's been my line of thinking as well. Wiggins is an albatross - no way around it. But the Spurs in particular are probably one of the teams that would value open cap space the least, since chances of landing a FA are slim-to-none, especially while we're rebuilding - which also allows us to "splurge" in to Wiggins' deal without having to compromise the integrity of the team (if I'm not mistaken, the only contracts we'd have to sign while he was here would be Lonnie's once his fourth year is up, since Keldon would still be on his rookie deal two years from now, and we'll have to re-sign White/Jak either way this summer).

So getting a decade+ of solid frontcourt play, with All-Star upside in Wiseman, all while retaining all of our picks and the possibility to tank if necessary, is extremely enticing. I can see why other posters are risk-averse on Wiggins, but in the NBA and being a small market team, you gotta throw the big stones if you want to make ripples, tbh...

[r0drig0lac]

That's been my line of thinking as well. Wiggins is an albatross - no way around it. But the Spurs in particular are probably one of the teams that would value open cap space the least, since chances of landing a FA are slim-to-none, especially while we're rebuilding - which also allows us to "splurge" in to Wiggins' deal without having to compromise the integrity of the team (if I'm not mistaken, the only contracts we'd have to sign while he was here would be Lonnie's once his fourth year is up, since Keldon would still be on his rookie deal two years from now, and we'll have to re-sign White/Jak either way this summer).

So getting a decade+ of solid frontcourt play, with All-Star upside in Wiseman, all while retaining all of our picks and the possibility to tank if necessary, is extremely enticing. I can see why other posters are risk-averse on Wiggins, but in the NBA and being a small market team, you gotta throw the big stones if you want to make ripples, tbh...

there is no risk, NO ONE really relevant wants to play for Pop and play in San Antonio, this trade (# 2 + Wiggins for Aldridge) would be an easy YES, without discussion.

[ZeusWillJudge]

Well the distributed combine is starting. Devin Vassell has elected not to come. I think that's a bad move, unless he and his agent are pretty confident that it would only hurt him. Between those videos of the changes in his shooting stroke, and staying out of the combine, he's going to drop. The question is how far.

[Dejounte]

Well the distributed combine is starting. Devin Vassell has elected not to come. I think that's a bad move, unless he and his agent are pretty confident that it would only hurt him. Between those videos of the changes in his shooting stroke, and staying out of the combine, he's going to drop. The question is how far.

Let him drop past 11th. He deserves to be undrafted.

[ace3g]

NBA free agents 2020: Predicting starting salaries for the best available players


Shooting guards



Player
Team
Age
FA Type
Starting Salary


DeMar DeRozan (player)
SAS
30
All-Star
$22-24M


Bryn Forbes
SAS
26
Rotation A
$4-6M



Centers



Player
Team
Age
FA Type
Starting Salary


Jakob Poeltl (restricted)

SAS
24
Starter
$8-10M



http://insider.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/30050803/nba-free-agents-2020-predicting-starting-salaries-best-available-players

[ZeusWillJudge]

Let him drop past 11th. He deserves to be undrafted.


I never liked him at 11. The only reason I could see for drafting him was that he knocked down 3's and he would be an improvement over Forbes at a much cheaper price. But if he's damaged his 3P shooting ability, I can't see him anywhere in the first round. I guess the question I was asking was whether he would be a value at 41, but I understand you not liking him even there, after those videos came out. Without an outstanding 3P%, I don't think he would have gotten much attention.

I'm still eager to see what they do and don't do in this modified combine. I've really wanted to see Desmon Bane's results. They were all over the place, and I still think there had to be some mistakes.

[Sugus]

there is no risk, NO ONE really relevant wants to play for Pop and play in San Antonio, this trade (# 2 + Wiggins for Aldridge) would be an easy YES, without discussion.

I tend to agree - cap space in particular is overvalued as a commodity, it's mostly "valuable" to teams who are FA destinations, or teams that are willing to eat up salary from other teams in exchange for picks - neither of which the Spurs have been known to be. I'd rather have #2 and be paying Wiggins' salary in '21, than to have LMA, DD leave for nothing and have to wait for a "big FA signing" that isn't happening.

[Thomas82]

That's been my line of thinking as well. Wiggins is an albatross - no way around it. But the Spurs in particular are probably one of the teams that would value open cap space the least, since chances of landing a FA are slim-to-none, especially while we're rebuilding - which also allows us to "splurge" in to Wiggins' deal without having to compromise the integrity of the team (if I'm not mistaken, the only contracts we'd have to sign while he was here would be Lonnie's once his fourth year is up, since Keldon would still be on his rookie deal two years from now, and we'll have to re-sign White/Jak either way this summer).

So getting a decade+ of solid frontcourt play, with All-Star upside in Wiseman, all while retaining all of our picks and the possibility to tank if necessary, is extremely enticing. I can see why other posters are risk-averse on Wiggins, but in the NBA and being a small market team, you gotta throw the big stones if you want to make ripples, tbh...

Man, the more I think about this, the more I want it to happen.

[JuneJive]

Off topic, but a quick question.

How do you guys define a contender?

[cd021]

I agree that if the Spurs take on Wiggins, then they are very very high on a rookie. And if that is the case, I would be excited. But here in Spurstalk, people here have this weird perception that we are not going anywhere, therefore just get a high pick at the cost of our best player and at the cost of getting one of the worst contracts. It's the wrong mentality.


Wiggins contract is a net negative. It is untradable for 2 seasons without giving up an asset in return. His value becomes somewhat even only on his expiring season.


You have to assume that rookie at number 2 is going to be worth 40mil in cap space gone. That is over a third of your cap.


Usually, when you give up by the far the best player in the trade, you want two of these three things.


1) A promising prospect.
2) Cap Space
3) Draft pick.


Spurs would be getting a promising prospect. No further future 1st that would be worthwhile. And no cap space flexibility for 3 seasons.

-Wiggins is a negative value contract for next season and the season after, that is true, and the obvious downside of the deal. Agreed, that his contract becomes somewhat even in year 3. Spurs could use that expiring to take on more bad salary in exchange for additional first round picks. That's if they are still in rebuilding mode and don't value cap space.

-The number 2 pick has a bigger rookie scale deal; true, though that's not really that big of a deal if the Spurs hit on that pick. Hitting on a top 3 pick, makes that an immediate value contract, not an negative.

-Aldridge is on an expiring and will be 36 by the end of next season, using him as a key part of a trade to get the number 2 pick is fantastic return tbh.

-In regards to cap space; if the Spurs were to make the Aldridge, Gay, and 11 for Wiggins, Looney, and 2, then the Spurs would likely embrace the rebuild. That means DeRozan and Mills will likely play out season before moving on from them. I wouldn't anticipate the Spurs being cap space players in the near future, in that scenario.

[Joseph Kony]

Off topic, but a quick question.

How do you guys define a contender?

a team that has a legitimate shot to win a ring, or at least win a conference title

[Joseph Kony]

i was reading that NBA told teams cap won't go below 109M for next season, so hopefully they'll announce the actual number soon so they can move forward with free agency or at least trades

[PhantomDashCam]

Well the distributed combine is starting. Devin Vassell has elected not to come. I think that's a bad move, unless he and his agent are pretty confident that it would only hurt him. Between those videos of the changes in his shooting stroke, and staying out of the combine, he's going to drop. The question is how far.


Let him drop past 11th. He deserves to be undrafted.

I still think he goes top 20. Recent article suggests he was goofing around at training.

https://sny.tv/articles/florida-state-coach-talks-knicks-draft-target-devin-vassell-his-decision-making-comes-in-crystal-clear-


So I asked Young about the video. At first, he chuckled. Then, he said, unequivocally, that Vassell hasn’t altered his shooting.“He has not changed his shot at all,” Young says.
Here’s what happened: Young said Vassell was messing around at the end of a workout, shooting from about five steps behind the 3-point line. He was hitting most of his attempts, so someone at the workout started to film the shooting session.
That person put the video on social media without the context mentioned above (Vassell is messing around at the end of a workout shooting from well beyond the 3-point line).
So people assumed that Vassell had altered his shot. Not the case, Young says.
“Because he’s shooting from so far back, he’s sling-shotting it from over his head. Because it’s way deep. It was a (mess around) half-court shot,” Young says. “He always had kind of a high release but he hasn’t changed his shot. He doesn’t bring it back that far. He has not changed his shot at all.”

Still silly that someone posts that video considering how tenuous draft positioning can be and $ it may have cost him on a rookie contract.

[ZeusWillJudge]

I still think he goes top 20. Recent article suggests he was goofing around at training.

Still silly that someone posts that video considering how tenuous draft positioning can be and $ it may have cost him on a rookie contract.


Well for his sake I hope that's true. I hate to see a young guy get crushed right before the draft. And this year there is so much less information than ever before. I know I'm not an NBA scout, but I still think that skipping the combine could be a really bad move for him. I can understand some of those guys who are definitely going in the top 6-7 slots skipping it. But the difference between being drafted 12 and being drafted 20 is over $1M a year, for the first three years of rookie scale.

Pretty high stakes poker for a kid that young.

[tbdog]

I wonder if we could somehow get Sabonis. Pacers have no draft pick.

[exstatic]

I wonder if we could somehow get Sabonis. Pacers have no draft pick.

No. He’s not available for anything we have. They are extremely high on him.

[Em-City]

I wonder if we could somehow get Sabonis. Pacers have no draft pick.

They'd be shopping Turner before Sabonis.

[exstatic]

They'd be shopping Turner before Sabonis.

They actually are, Oladipo, too, according to reports.

[The Truth #6]

Think the 2 safest players in this draft are Halliburton and Tyler Bey. They will both contribute right away. Halliburton can lead a franchise but Bey won’t be franchise player but should be a solid starter. Nesmith and Toppin could be good on the right teams but they are complementary players and not franchise players.

I really want Tyler Bey on the team, but I think his role will be limited to defense/glue guy. But I would love to be wrong.

[EasyMoney]

They actually are, Oladipo, too, according to reports.


According to *rumors

[exstatic]

According to *rumors

Po tay to. Po tah to. Everything is a rumor until it happens. You’ll never have Kevin Pritchard come out and be quoted as saying he’s shopping specific players.

[Prime BEEF]

I tend to agree - cap space in particular is overvalued as a commodity, it's mostly "valuable" to teams who are FA destinations, or teams that are willing to eat up salary from other teams in exchange for picks - neither of which the Spurs have been known to be. I'd rather have #2 and be paying Wiggins' salary in '21, than to have LMA, DD leave for nothing and have to wait for a "big FA signing" that isn't happening.
Totally agree. Doubt any big FA is signing with SA. Only way to improve is through trades and the draft...period.

[Prime BEEF]

If the spurs do make the GSW trade, who should be the pick at #2? It’s obviously all a guessing game but I’m not so sure that wiseman will be better than Toppin or Halliburton.

[spurspl]

If the spurs do make the GSW trade, who should be the pick at #2? It’s obviously all a guessing game but I’m not so sure that wiseman will be better than Toppin or Halliburton.

imo still with #2 - wiseman. But id also love to draft hali so why not to try and offer DET: ddr + murray + #41 for #7 + whoever if they want to. They have lots of money this offseason but theyr not a fav FAs destination, casey and ddr reunion, they were looking for a guard per rumors (murray) etc. imagine drafting wiseman, hali and smith. sweet dreams. i doubt spurs trade murray.

[Leetonidas]

Looks like NBA is targeting free agency to begin on Nov 21st. saw earlier they were reporting some teams expect to have the cap info from the league by the end of this week. hopefully that means we'll see some movement soon

[poopbox]

Contracts don't match but if we kid swap Turner for Lamarsha straight up that would be great

[Dverde]

Contracts don't match but if we kid swap Turner for Lamarsha straight up that would be great

Pacers got some trash contracts to make up the rest. I can’t see them trading LMA to a bad situation like Indy.

[poopbox]

Pacers got some trash contracts to make up the rest. I can’t see them trading LMA to a bad situation like Indy.

A bad situation like being a playoff team ?

I think no matter what happens after this year LMA finds some way to end up back in Portland anyway

[ace3g]

Cryptic Spurs tweet

https://twitter.com/spurs/status/1321207065650647041

[Robz4000]

Cryptic Spurs tweet

https://twitter.com/spurs/status/1321207065650647041

Spurs are going out of business/being bought and moved imo.

It was a good run guys.

[r0drig0lac]

Spurs are going out of business/being bought and moved imo.

It was a good run guys.
Las Vegas Spurs?
Los Angeles Spurs?

[Robz4000]

Las Vegas Spurs?
Los Angeles Spurs?

Mexico City Los Spurs tbh.

[exstatic]

A bad situation like being a playoff team ?

I think no matter what happens after this year LMA finds some way to end up back in Portland anyway

They’re obviously busting it up if they’re shopping Miles and Dipo.

[Seventyniner]

Cryptic Spurs tweet

My guess is a logo revamp, with that image being part of some video showing the evolution of the logo.

[rankingtear]

Update from ATL insider:


GS - While talks to trade out of the 2nd overall pick is still ongoing, GS has narrowed down their big board to 6 players. S. Bey, Deni A., Wiseman, Ant, Ball, and Toppin. They aren't leaning to anyone right now. They are shopping MIN 2021 1st and Wiggins for an all-star center or excellent young center. They have been in contact with Indy and Orlando about their centers Turner, Sabonis, and Vucevic. He was told Indy wasn't that interested. It's just really hard for Indy to move into the top 3 without a legit All-Star or a lottery in general. If Indy had #11 and Turner, they could get #2 right now. He is saying this will be a tough play. He said GS/PHI have been in talks for Horford/Wiggins but the issue the 3rd team to give value to PHI for Wiggins. Wiggins seems like a blocker right now for GS. It seems like they are looking to do the best possible deal for them. Like Atlanta, they have been talking to EVERYBODY!


SA - It seems like they aren't willing to move White or Murray based on his recent findings. This will likely kill their ability to trade up.


Nothing changed with the Clippers from what I've stated. He said everything is still the same. DeRozan wants to go back home to LA. There is odds of him getting that deal that appeals to him but I was told his market value is what LA wants to pay him which is 17-19 million which will make a well-paid 3rd to 4th option.

[Degoat]

Interesting information lol Demar seems like such an odd fit with the clippers but who knows, will be disappointing if the spurs end up getting nothing for Demar or Aldridge

[cool cat]

Mexico City Los Spurs tbh.

Have you not been paying attention to the money?

It will clearly be the Shanghai Spurs.

[Dverde]

Demar Derozan is not going to opt out and sign a discount deal with The Clippers. That is the fakest fake news I’ve heard this offseason.

[joeyjfive]

Update from ATL insider:

This information is interesting. GS is looking for an all star center or good young center and is in talks with PHI about Horford who is 34. Those same conversations had to have happened with the Spurs for LaMarcus who is 35. Wiggins and the Min 2021 pick for LMA is a no brainer. Hold on to Wiggins for the next two years and suck while these next two drafts (as I’m told) are going to be really good.

He also mentions the Spurs unwillingness to move White or Murray to move up while also mentioning if Indy had the #11 which is ours and Turner they could get the #2 right now. Maybe this is the Spurs playing a little hardball like they did back in the day saying George Hill is not available?

On the flip side in another post he mentioned the Spurs are not interested in rebuilding which would mean we hang on to both DD and LA and I’m guessing run it back with Keldon and Lonnie taking Bryn and Forbes minutes. But how many games does that team realistically win and do they even get out of the first round.

[Chinook]

Just to say again, I think that ATL insider is full of shit. That they keep talking about the Spurs is hurting their credibility. It made some sense when the info was about SA's negotiations with Atlanta. They didn't need a Spurs source for that. Now they are talking as if they know what SA is thinking, and that's a whole different level of insider.

Regardless, I think GS is going to have a hard time making a trade if they can't get Wiggins/Horford to work out. Philly wanting more value means SA should want a lot more, and if GS isn't willing to pay, I don't know if they'd be willing to pay the higher bill. In no way is the Minny pick alone fair compensation. People underestimate both how horrible that contract is against the new financial reality and how big the drop-off from Aldridge to Wiggins is. Even if Andrew were expiring, the Spurs would need value for the exchange. That's why 2 and the Minny pick need to go out for Aldridge or DeRozan. Personally think DeMar would make more sense, since he can also lead the bench unit and maintains wing size. Even at 11, they should have a good chance at taking Smith, or Precious, who are both guys who could come in and play interesting roles in GS's long-term plans. For the Spurs, the financial implications wouldn't be great, especially if the cap shrinks. As is, the Spurs have to be thinking of RJing Derozan, so instead taking on more money with no restructuring possible may be a no-go. Definitely not just for the Minny pick though.

[Dejounte]

Those poor Hawks fans. He's just toying with them.

[ZeusWillJudge]

Totally agree. Doubt any big FA is signing with SA. Only way to improve is through trades and the draft...period.

Put together a core. A really solid core of young guys who bust there ass for 48 minutes every game, and have a reasonable distribution of talent.

THEN you can get a top FA or two to come to SA.

[ZeusWillJudge]

Cryptic Spurs tweet


That's a Spurs logo covered in spider webs. They're bringing Duncan out of retirement.

[mo7888]

With Daryl Morey expected to take over in Philly I expect to see them start making bigger moves. It's going to really add something to the off-season moves coming up.

[Seventyniner]

With Daryl Morey expected to take over in Philly I expect to see them start making bigger moves. It's going to really add something to the off-season moves coming up.

I agree. Philly is going to blow shit up. I don't see how the Spurs could benefit other than maybe getting a couple of assets in an Aldridge/Horford swap, but Horford is aging fast and his contract is bad. Those assets would have to be high quality.

[mo7888]

I agree. Philly is going to blow shit up. I don't see how the Spurs could benefit other than maybe getting a couple of assets in an Aldridge/Horford swap, but Horford is aging fast and his contract is bad. Those assets would have to be high quality.

If we can get in on something there I think it'll be a 3 or 4 team deal that could net us something. Morey will cast a wide net and we'll be more apt to deal with him now that he's in the eastern conference.

[The Truth #6]

I agree. Philly is going to blow shit up. I don't see how the Spurs could benefit other than maybe getting a couple of assets in an Aldridge/Horford swap, but Horford is aging fast and his contract is bad. Those assets would have to be high quality.

It's kind of hilarious in the big picture. Hinkie, a Morey protege, begins The Process up there, they accumulate amazing assets, and then Morey would come in and start over?

[Seventyniner]

It's kind of hilarious in the big picture. Hinkie, a Morey protege, begins The Process up there, they accumulate amazing assets, and then Morey would come in and start over?

Morey can't help it, he's an inveterate wheeler-and-dealer. Philly was rumored to be making major roster changes even before they hired Morey. Hell, that might be the reason they hired him in the first place.

Of course, Morey seems to like making deals just for the sake of making deals. Some work out, but many don't like the Westbrook trade. Hiring him was a huge gamble by Sixers ownership. Though maybe they would be okay with being the Houston of the Eastern conference.

[exstatic]

Morey can't help it, he's an inveterate wheeler-and-dealer. Philly was rumored to be making major roster changes even before they hired Morey. Hell, that might be the reason they hired him in the first place.

Of course, Morey seems to like making deals just for the sake of making deals. Some work out, but many don't like the Westbrook trade. Hiring him was a huge gamble by Sixers ownership. Though maybe they would be okay with being the Houston of the Eastern conference.

Woj dropped a bomb in Twitter: of the $1.5B shortfall, $200M are blamed on losses in China. Philly probably shouldn’t plan on any broadcasts or streams to PRC if they hire Morey.

[Spursfanfromafar]

Spurs should try getting Simmons if he is made available. Doubt that will happen though.

[Chinook]

Spurs should try getting Simmons if he is made available. Doubt that will happen though.

I think Simmons might be available, but SA doesn't have what Morey would want. It's gonna be interesting to see how Morey balances his own philosophy with what Rivers will want to run.

[Robz4000]

I think Simmons might be available, but SA doesn't have what Morey would want. It's gonna be interesting to see how Morey balances his own philosophy with what Rivers will want to run.

All I see is disaster tbh.

[Dverde]

Player
Age
2019-20
2020-21
2021-22
2022-23
2023-24
2024-25
Signed Using
Guaranteed


Tobias Harris (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/harrito02.html)
28
$31,034,483
$33,517,241
$36,000,000
$38,482,759
$40,965,517

Bird Rights
$180,000,000


Al Horford (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/horfoal01.html)
34
$28,000,000
$27,500,000
$27,000,000
$26,500,000


Cap Space
$97,000,000


Joel Embiid (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/e/embiijo01.html)
26
$27,504,630
$29,542,010
$31,579,390
$33,616,770


1st Round Pick
$122,242,800


Josh Richardson (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/richajo01.html)
27
$10,100,000
$10,800,000
$11,600,000



Minimum Salary
$20,900,000


Ben Simmons (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/simmobe01.html)
24
$8,113,930
$29,250,000
$31,590,000
$33,930,000
$36,270,000
$38,610,000
1st Round pick
$177,763,930



:lol Morey

[EasyMoney]

Morey might be able to get rid of horfords contract. Dude might go 2k on all of us

[Joseph Kony]

Player
Age
2019-20
2020-21
2021-22
2022-23
2023-24
2024-25
Signed Using
Guaranteed


Tobias Harris (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/harrito02.html)
28
$31,034,483
$33,517,241
$36,000,000
$38,482,759
$40,965,517

Bird Rights
$180,000,000


Al Horford (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/horfoal01.html)
34
$28,000,000
$27,500,000
$27,000,000
$26,500,000


Cap Space
$97,000,000


Joel Embiid (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/e/embiijo01.html)
26
$27,504,630
$29,542,010
$31,579,390
$33,616,770


1st Round Pick
$122,242,800


Josh Richardson (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/richajo01.html)
27
$10,100,000
$10,800,000
$11,600,000



Minimum Salary
$20,900,000


Ben Simmons (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/simmobe01.html)
24
$8,113,930
$29,250,000
$31,590,000
$33,930,000
$36,270,000
$38,610,000
1st Round pick
$177,763,930



:lol Morey

the thought of paying 40 million to a 32 year old Tobias Harris.... :lmao :lmao Brand is such a shitty GM

[Seventyniner]

the thought of paying 40 million to a 32 year old Tobias Harris.... :lmao :lmao Brand is such a shitty GM

Morey might see cleaning up the Sixers' horrible cap situation as his Everest. If he can get them out of tax hell and into some decent flexibility without emptying the cupboard of assets he should be Executive of the Year easily.

Then again he mortgaged the Rockets' future on Westbrook, so, uh, maybe not.

[Robz4000]

Morey might see cleaning up the Sixers' horrible cap situation as his Everest. If he can get them out of tax hell and into some decent flexibility without emptying the cupboard of assets he should be Executive of the Year easily.

Then again he mortgaged the Rockets' future on Westbrook, so, uh, maybe not.

Apparently ownership forced Westbrick down his throat so he can't be faulted for that. Trading all their bigs away was his idea, however, so :lol Sixers.

[The Truth #6]

the thought of paying 40 million to a 32 year old Tobias Harris.... :lmao :lmao Brand is such a shitty GM

I think Brand is still the GM and Morey is Team President. I'm curious to see if Brand sticks around or gets all his authority stripped away. I can't see Brand calling many shots moving forward now.

[ace3g]

Cryptic Spurs tweet

https://twitter.com/spurs/status/1321207065650647041

There have been some City Edition jersey leaks lately, could be about that.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EldhwmbU8AAJROp?format=jpg&name=large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ElcHwEQU8AAVYf-?format=jpg&name=large

[Dejounte]

That Nets jersey looks like hot garbage!

[Russ]

I agree. Philly is going to blow shit up.

Ah, the eternal benefits of tanking!

[exstatic]

That Nets jersey looks like hot garbage!

Someone’s kid got loose with their box of crayons.

[tbdog]

I think Simmons might be available, but SA doesn't have what Morey would want. It's gonna be interesting to see how Morey balances his own philosophy with what Rivers will want to run.

LMA, gay, mills for horford and Simmons?

[lefty]

Spurs should try getting Simmons if he is made available. Doubt that will happen though.
Yes let's get another player who can't shoot

[Dverde]

LMA, gay, mills for horford and Simmons?

76ers would want players still on their rookie deal included they would want White for sure and either Keldon or Walker included, maybe both. I don’t think Simmons is worth all it would take to get him.

[mo7888]

The more I think about what Morey values (3's and getting to the rim) and what he doesn't (big men), the more I think Joel will be moved.

[ZeusWillJudge]

Morey might see cleaning up the Sixers' horrible cap situation as his Everest. If he can get them out of tax hell and into some decent flexibility without emptying the cupboard of assets he should be Executive of the Year easily.

Then again he mortgaged the Rockets' future on Westbrook, so, uh, maybe not.


The Spurs have a chance to get out of cap hell for the first time in years. The worst possible thing right now would be to take on any contracts for anyone who isn't the absolute player of their choosing. That's why all that talk about taking on Wiggins' contract to get to the #2 pick made me want to throw up in my mouth a little. If they see someone at #2 that they are certain is a franchise player in the system that they want to run... maybe. But I don't see it. And I don't see helping Morey clean up the Sixers' cap situation. If the player of the Spurs choosing is on that roster, that's the guy Morey won't let them have.

[talkspurs]

The Spurs have a chance to get out of cap hell for the first time in years. The worst possible thing right now would be to take on any contracts for anyone who isn't the absolute player of their choosing. That's why all that talk about taking on Wiggins' contract to get to the #2 pick made me want to throw up in my mouth a little. If they see someone at #2 that they are certain is a franchise player in the system that they want to run... maybe. But I don't see it. And I don't see helping Morey clean up the Sixers' cap situation. If the player of the Spurs choosing is on that roster, that's the guy Morey won't let them have.

So which FA do you want the Spurs to sign that you think the Spurs have a shot at next summer? If you dont have a FA what do you think the Spurs should do with all the extra cap space?

[R. DeMurre]

That 76er payroll reminds me of the old adage that coaches & scouts believe there are about 10 franchise players worthy of a max contract in the NBA, but agents & players like to say there are 40 or 50.

[Dejounte]

https://news4sanantonio.com/amp/sports/the-ringers-oconner-derozan-been-involved-in-trade-talks?__twitter_impression=true

KOC is a pretty reliable source

[ace3g]

Newest leaks...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ElgiUHuW0AE3TOR?format=jpg&name=large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Elg4MhJUcAAqbPr?format=jpg&name=large

[gambit1990]

so it seems like spurs are 100% getting a new jersey?

[exstatic]

The Spurs have a chance to get out of cap hell for the first time in years. The worst possible thing right now would be to take on any contracts for anyone who isn't the absolute player of their choosing. That's why all that talk about taking on Wiggins' contract to get to the #2 pick made me want to throw up in my mouth a little. If they see someone at #2 that they are certain is a franchise player in the system that they want to run... maybe. But I don't see it. And I don't see helping Morey clean up the Sixers' cap situation. If the player of the Spurs choosing is on that roster, that's the guy Morey won't let them have.

What FAs do you see signing here? Any rumors? Hints? I’ve been a fan since the mid 80s and we’ve signed exactly one marquee FA, LMA, and he cried and wanted out after one year. I don’t want any part of Morey’s circus, but I wouldn’t mind renting our space for two years for #2. The Spurs would only pull the trigger if they thought their guy was a pretty sure thing. I’m not a huge Wiggins fan, but he’s young and relatively healthy and durable, and a lot better player than a lot of the corpses I’ve seen stuffed into NBA salary caps over the years. Think of him as a used car. Spiff up the paperwork, and move him along in a year or two. Hell, Pop managed to make Rudy Gay efficient.

[ZeusWillJudge]

So which FA do you want the Spurs to sign that you think the Spurs have a shot at next summer? If you dont have a FA what do you think the Spurs should do with all the extra cap space?


What FAs do you see signing here? Any rumors? Hints? I’ve been a fan since the mid 80s and we’ve signed exactly one marquee FA, LMA, and he cried and wanted out after one year. I don’t want any part of Morey’s circus, but I wouldn’t mind renting our space for two years for #2. The Spurs would only pull the trigger if they thought their guy was a pretty sure thing. I’m not a huge Wiggins fan, but he’s young and relatively healthy and durable, and a lot better player than a lot of the corpses I’ve seen stuffed into NBA salary caps over the years. Think of him as a used car. Spiff up the paperwork, and move him along in a year or two. Hell, Pop managed to make Rudy Gay efficient.



I want them to put together a core of young guys who will go to the floor for every loose ball, and develop some chemistry. I want them to get a better pick than 11 next year, in a better draft class. I want them to get out of cap hell, so that they can afford to max out a FA in a better FA class. And when their young guys scale contracts come up, they'll be able to keep them with their Bird rights.

How do you two think the Spurs are going to build a contender by taking a shit contract like Wiggins, in order to get the 2 pick in a really weak draft? Seems to me like you're the ones who need to be 'splainin yourselves.

[Degoat]

Free agents won’t want to come to SA lol to an extent taking on bad contracts and drafting guys is the best course of action. People hate on coach Pop but I guarantee any free agent we have signed is because they wanted to play for Pop and he’ll be retiring soon.

[ZeusWillJudge]

Free agents won’t want to come to SA lol to an extent taking on bad contracts and drafting guys is the best course of action. People hate on coach Pop but I guarantee any free agent we have signed is because they wanted to play for Pop and he’ll be retiring soon.


Taking on bad contracts is like trying to sell below cost and make it up in volume.

[talkspurs]

I want them to put together a core of young guys who will go to the floor for every loose ball, and develop some chemistry. I want them to get a better pick than 11 next year, in a better draft class. I want them to get out of cap hell, so that they can afford to max out a FA in a better FA class. And when their young guys scale contracts come up, they'll be able to keep them with their Bird rights.

How do you two think the Spurs are going to build a contender by taking a shit contract like Wiggins, in order to get the 2 pick in a really weak draft? Seems to me like you're the ones who need to be 'splainin yourselves.


So you did not answer my question and I am guessing that is because you did not look at the FA. The best one I would be interested in and have a shot at would be would be Kelly Oubre. I do not consider him a max player. So we would be doing like NY is doing now of signing players just to get to next season. So once again I will ask who do you think we have a somewhat realistic shot at that is a FA next year.

I am al for playing the young guys getting rid of LMA and DDR would help with this. Also there is no way to know what out pick will be next year. is taking on Wiggins and and #2 going to change our draft odds so much in one year. Unless your expecting a tim or david type impact from #2 I dont think it will effect it that much. If they end up haveing that type of impact then I am fine with not getting a higher pick next year as we already have our player. Even if we bring back the same team as this year+ our rookie pick how much worse do you think we will be? I dont think the Spurs are going to intentionally tank next year no mater who is on the roster at least not to start the year.

[cjw]

I’m still amazed that the Warriors turned Russell’s contract into Wiggins unless they thought that first from the Wolves is a goldmine. Russell you probably could have talked a team into valuing given age, but obviously was a bad fit from the start and they only got him so they could get something back via S&T.

Or, they looked at the season and had already written it off, and see Wiggins as being a different player around Steph-Klay-Draymond. Why else would they have done the deal? Have they soured on him that much?

He is, though, one of the few big contracts they have to move for an impact piece along with 2.

[Degoat]

It’s been pretty quiet with NBA rumors for awhile now.

[PhantomDashCam]

It’s been pretty quiet with NBA rumors for awhile now.

One for you fresh off the press...

https://sports.yahoo.com/nba-rumors-warriors-held-workout-210807578.html


"I know that they they got some headlines because (it) became known that they were looking at Avdija -- they were looking at him in Atlanta last week. But before that, they spent two days in Miami with Wiseman. And I think they had another prospect that they (tried) to secretly (bring) into Miami to work out there.
"It all depends on what gets public, or what they want to get public."

‘My guess is it’s not Kira Lewis...

https://twitter.com/BabcockHoops/status/1321907450614751232?s=20

[tbdog]

Jazz interested in trading Gobert.

[kobyz]

Rumor is Indiana is willing to let go on Victor Oladipo and not for much, like a package of Walker, 26th pick and the expiring of Mills could make the deal

[tbdog]

Oladipo just isn't good anymore. He had one really good season and he was a late flower. Give Walker time.

[rankingtear]

ATL Insider:

San Antonio and Al Horford interest is real. They want him and they want someone who can run their system somewhat like TD used to do. Especially since its seen that DeRozan will opt out. This can open up PHI to expirings in LMA and Mills who could interest OKC for CP3 plus their draft assets that they have a lot of.
Zach Lowe:

Lowe spoke on the Lowe Post today with Yaron Weitzman about the Morey hire, and talked about how he polled a number of executives league wide about Horford and Tobias. Basically came away saying that horfords trade value is higher and teams aren’t that low on him.

[Leetonidas]

I really hope Spurs would not jeopardize cap space to trade for a decent over the hill player making 30 mil that would be better suited on a contender

[joeyjfive]

So now WE are interested in Horford?? What’s the point in bringing him over? Any team with Horford as the best player ain’t winning shit. Or are we trying to suck because I can think of better ways.

[szkorhetz]

ATL Insider:

Zach Lowe:
ATL insider is bullshit.

[spurspl]

hope that horford isnt the main target but their picks and thybulle.

[r0drig0lac]

I really hope Spurs would not jeopardize cap space to trade for a decent over the hill player making 30 mil that would be better suited on a contender

looking at everything that has been done by the front office for a few years, this is exactly what I expect, and I also hope to see some analysis of why it was the right move to make.

[Dejounte]

Some of y'all are way too obsessed with cap space. We only need cap space to pay our own players and as long as it doesn't interfere with that, it's not a big deal.

[JuneJive]

Without LMA and DeRozan, Horford could be useful.

He is a willing passer and still an excellent defender.

He would act as a booster to our young core.

Not taking touches away but making them stars.

But, he is kinda old and overpaid.
And I don't see what's the teams plan with him on the roster.

Compete for the playoffs? Should that be a priority?
I'd much rather another good pick in the '21 draft and then go for the playoffs...

[Dverde]

If LMA doesn’t want to stick around, I could see the move to get Horford. Good locker room guy. Kinda reminds me of the Pau Gasol acquisition. Trying to find a smart well rounded big man to anchor the defense except Pau ended up being mediocre at best.

[NASpurs]

I’m getting Pau Gasol flashbacks when I see Horford’s name being tossed around. So of course I believe this rumor.

[NASpurs]

If LMA doesn’t want to stick around, I could see the move to get Horford. Good locker room guy. Kinda reminds me of the Pau Gasol acquisition. Trying to find a smart well rounded big man to anchor the defense except Pau ended up being mediocre at best.

:lol damn beat me

[Chinook]

Honestly, paying Horford isn't the problem. I think the Spurs are okay with giving LMA that money on an extension, for example. Homeboy is overpaid as backup in Philly, but he earned a good contract by being a good player for years. The problem would be if SA lets their willingness to pay Horford lead them into a bad deal with Philly. They absolutely should be getting assets from the Sixers for doing the deal. It doesn't have to be the full for the contract as if Al were dead money. Certainly, they can come down on that if they feel Horford is a multi-year starter for them. But talking about this as a straight-up deal for LMA or with SA adding is way off the reservation. Ignoring that Aldridge is better than Horford, they need to leverage cap space for value before they can worry about building a team.

As I've said before, DMDR to LAC, Lou and Beverly to PHL and Horford to SA with the Spurs getting compensation works provided the Spurs find an Aldridge deal. But if they aren't going to have the mentality of a rebuilding team, they should just stay the course with their best players and reevaluate next off-season.

[Chinook]

If LMA doesn’t want to stick around, I could see the move to get Horford. Good locker room guy. Kinda reminds me of the Pau Gasol acquisition. Trying to find a smart well rounded big man to anchor the defense except Pau ended up being mediocre at best.

Pau wasn't really mediocre. His impact numbers were pretty good. The issue is that he couldn't play with Aldridge but was being paid like he could. In a world where SA had pulled off a LMA for CP3 or Irving swap, I think he would've justified his contract, at least until he got hurt. I think if Paul could do it over again, he would've just signed with SA and probably won a ring.

[KobesAchilles]

How do people not realize how washed Horford is? He averages about half (exaggeration) of LMA in stats and they want to bring him in while paying him LMA money for 3 more years??? Makes zero sense.

[Joseph Kony]

How do people not realize how washed Horford is? He averages about half (exaggeration) of LMA in stats and they want to bring him in while paying him LMA money for 3 more years??? Makes zero sense.
agree somewhat, BUT, a lot of that is because of playing in the shitty system they had in Philly. Their 4 best players all basically excel playing PF :lol and Horford/Embiid did not work at all together.

if Spurs get rid of LMA, Horford would be a decent replacement as he can actually pass, play D, and stretch the floor somewhat. but his contract is disgusting

[KobesAchilles]

agree somewhat, BUT, a lot of that is because of playing in the shitty system they had in Philly. Their 4 best players all basically excel playing PF :lol and Horford/Embiid did not work at all together.

if Spurs get rid of LMA, Horford would be a decent replacement as he can actually pass, play D, and stretch the floor somewhat. but his contract is disgusting
The dude is 34. How many more years of defense can we really expect from him? Maybe one? I agree that Philly was a shitty roster though :lol Morey will fix all that though. I just hate his contract. We better be getting some sort of unprotected 1st for that disaster of a contract

[Degoat]

Horford is great player to have for a rebuilding tbh from what I’ve seen from afar he’s a pretty good cultural guy to have

[ace3g]

https://twitter.com/BrooklynNets/status/1322231276359864320

[Dejounte]

So Kenny Atkinson is just not going to coach anywhere?

[Dejounte]

Ah nevermind. He went with the Clippers. That blows.

So wait, is Timmy D going to be an assistant again? Because if he leaves, I don't see a good replacement?

[Dverde]

Ah nevermind. He went with the Clippers. That blows.

So wait, is Timmy D going to be an assistant again? Because if he leaves, I don't see a good replacement?

Ime Udoka still an assistant and Mr. Becky is still around.

[Dejounte]

Ime Udoka still an assistant and Mr. Becky is still around.

Ime is with the Nets...

[Dverde]

Ime is with the Nets...

As an assistant coach. Pop ain’t leaving yet.

[Dejounte]

As an assistant coach. Pop ain’t leaving yet.

I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say initially. I wasn't talking about a replacement for Pop. I was talking about a replacement for Tim as our assistant coach. Who will replace Tim as an assistant coach if he isn't one next year?

[Dverde]

I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say initially. I wasn't talking about a replacement for Pop. I was talking about a replacement for Tim as our assistant coach. Who will replace Tim as an assistant coach if he isn't one next year?

Sorry I misunderstood. Yeah, I don’t think TD is coming back. They might call up their G-league coach. Maybe give TP or Manu a turn.

[Dejounte]

Sorry I misunderstood. Yeah, I don’t think TD is coming back. They might call up their G-league coach. Maybe give TP or Manu a turn.

Their Gleague coach is gone. He went to another team already.

[TD 21]

Without LMA and DeRozan, Horford could be useful.

He is a willing passer and still an excellent defender.

He would act as a booster to our young core.

Not taking touches away but making them stars.

But, he is kinda old and overpaid.
And I don't see what's the teams plan with him on the roster.

Compete for the playoffs? Should that be a priority?
I'd much rather another good pick in the '21 draft and then go for the playoffs...

Yeah, plus solid range shooter, "good character"/leader and we're really talking about a contract that runs 1.5 years longer than Aldridge's and won't prevent them from doing anything.

I could absolutely see them having interest for all of this plus the draft capital they could extract for taking his albatross on.

The "plan" would be to continue along the same path, only with more assets (he isn't changing their fortunes). They'd need to turn DeRozan into a featured perimeter type though. One possibility would be utilizing the draft capital to attempt to move up to 4-5 for Avdija, another would be . . .

To Clippers: DeRozan
To Magic: Beverley, Williams
To Spurs: Fournier, Kabengele

[The Truth #6]

Honestly, paying Horford isn't the problem. I think the Spurs are okay with giving LMA that money on an extension, for example. Homeboy is overpaid as backup in Philly, but he earned a good contract by being a good player for years. The problem would be if SA lets their willingness to pay Horford lead them into a bad deal with Philly. They absolutely should be getting assets from the Sixers for doing the deal. It doesn't have to be the full for the contract as if Al were dead money. Certainly, they can come down on that if they feel Horford is a multi-year starter for them. But talking about this as a straight-up deal for LMA or with SA adding is way off the reservation. Ignoring that Aldridge is better than Horford, they need to leverage cap space for value before they can worry about building a team.

As I've said before, DMDR to LAC, Lou and Beverly to PHL and Horford to SA with the Spurs getting compensation works provided the Spurs find an Aldridge deal. But if they aren't going to have the mentality of a rebuilding team, they should just stay the course with their best players and reevaluate next off-season.

Well said.

[tbdog]

Honestly, paying Horford isn't the problem. I think the Spurs are okay with giving LMA that money on an extension, for example. Homeboy is overpaid as backup in Philly, but he earned a good contract by being a good player for years. The problem would be if SA lets their willingness to pay Horford lead them into a bad deal with Philly. They absolutely should be getting assets from the Sixers for doing the deal. It doesn't have to be the full for the contract as if Al were dead money. Certainly, they can come down on that if they feel Horford is a multi-year starter for them. But talking about this as a straight-up deal for LMA or with SA adding is way off the reservation. Ignoring that Aldridge is better than Horford, they need to leverage cap space for value before they can worry about building a team.

As I've said before, DMDR to LAC, Lou and Beverly to PHL and Horford to SA with the Spurs getting compensation works provided the Spurs find an Aldridge deal. But if they aren't going to have the mentality of a rebuilding team, they should just stay the course with their best players and reevaluate next off-season.

That lac trade is just bad. Your taking two players who play the same position as our promising youth.

[Chinook]

That lac trade is just bad. Your taking two players who play the same position as our promising youth.

Huh? Which promising youth plays center?

[poopbox]

If this Hortford rumor is true then this front office is beyond redemption and we all need to find a new team to cheer for

[ace3g]

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1197929409044504576/nKXnm0aN_normal.jpg
Shams Charania ShamsCharania
(https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania) 4m (https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1322339028411117570)
The NBA and NBPA are extending today’s deadline to Nov. 6 for either side to serve notice on terminating the collective bargaining agreement, sources tell @TheAthleticNBA (https://twitter.com/TheAthleticNBA/) @Stadium (https://twitter.com/Stadium/).


https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1264902234703265794/lC3YnIYF_normal.jpg
Adrian Wojnarowski @wojespn
(https://twitter.com/wojespn) 4m (https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1322339159697227776)
ESPN Sources: For fourth time, NBA and NBPA agree to extend deadline to serve notice on terminating the Collective Bargaining Agreement. Extension goes to Nov. 6 now, which allows additional time for talks on CBA modifications. Discussions are ongoing this weekend.


https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1197929409044504576/nKXnm0aN_normal.jpg
Shams Charania ShamsCharania
(https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania) 1m (https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1322340092296400898)
If either side provides notice by Nov. 6, the CBA will terminate by December 14 — unless the parties agree otherwise.


https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1264902234703265794/lC3YnIYF_normal.jpg
Adrian Wojnarowski @wojespn
(https://twitter.com/wojespn) 17s (https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1322340549563682824)
There's still a gulf between NBA and NBPA on a start date for the 2020-2021 season, sources tell ESPN. NBA wants pre-Christmas; NBPA still preferring mid-January. Economic issues remain significant, including escrow withholding on player salaries w/ revenues down b/c of no fans.

[talkspurs]

I dont see why the NBA does not start later aka Jan/Feb and then put a break in for Olympics and come back and play the PO. This would push back next season but gives them more games this year and does not have them rushing back players. In some ways it would take the place of the AS break. or do an all star break during that time of players not int he Olympics. gives more players the ability to play.

[Degoat]

I dont see why the NBA does not start later aka Jan/Feb and then put a break in for Olympics and come back and play the PO. This would push back next season but gives them more games this year and does not have them rushing back players. In some ways it would take the place of the AS break. or do an all star break during that time of players not int he Olympics. gives more players the ability to play.

NBA and it’s tv agreements (ESPN & TNT) want no part of basketball during football season, they need to find a way to get back onto their old schedule. It’s gonna be tough but I think the players are gonna have to agree to the December start, if they tear up the bargaining agreement the players will be screwed

[exstatic]

I dont see why the NBA does not start later aka Jan/Feb and then put a break in for Olympics and come back and play the PO. This would push back next season but gives them more games this year and does not have them rushing back players. In some ways it would take the place of the AS break. or do an all star break during that time of players not int he Olympics. gives more players the ability to play.

That would be three distorted seasons. They’re trying both to reset to normal, and not miss the Christmas TV ratings bonanza. That’s big dollars they’re passing up, and will cost the players plenty.

[Wu36]

NBA and it’s tv agreements (ESPN & TNT) want no part of basketball during football season, they need to find a way to get back onto their old schedule. It’s gonna be tough but I think the players are gonna have to agree to the December start, if they tear up the bargaining agreement the players will be screwed
I don’t know that it’s so much battling football. I buy league pass but not nfl ticket. Yes I’m one person but I won’t pay for one day a week vs every day that nba gives. I do agree players should pick up the December slot. I haven’t missed time through all this. I’ve been at work so people can eat and not go as crazy. My job has about 80% the amount of employees as nba players, but in one location. We deal with the public also. It’s up to them how much they want to get paid. 72 or 50. I won’t look down on any that skip Olympics. But this is their job. Up to them if they want to get paid

[exstatic]

I don’t know that it’s so much battling football. I buy league pass but not nfl ticket. Yes I’m one person but I won’t pay for one day a week vs every day that nba gives. I do agree players should pick up the December slot. I haven’t missed time through all this. I’ve been at work so people can eat and not go as crazy. My job has about 80% the amount of employees as nba players, but in one location. We deal with the public also. It’s up to them how much they want to get paid. 72 or 50. I won’t look down on any that skip Olympics. But this is their job. Up to them if they want to get paid

NFL is three days a week, and when college football ends four: Sunday, Monday, Thursday, and eventually Saturday.

[tbdog]

Huh? Which promising youth plays center?

Lou and bev

[Wu36]

Maybe. Again I’m one person. But don’t watch Thursday unless for some reason my team plays. A lot of tv and movies were put on hold. Competition is down in general.

[Seventyniner]

NFL is three days a week, and when college football ends four: Sunday, Monday, Thursday, and eventually Saturday.

Yes, but the NBA allows someone to watch games continuously from 7:00 to 1:00 Eastern on most days of the week during the regular season, usually with multiple games going at once. All NFL days but Sunday usually have only one game.

If what someone wants is constant action and doesn't really care if it's basketball or football, NBA League Pass is a no-brainer choice over NFL Ticket.

[Wu36]

A Bengals Dolphins game won’t screw a Lakers bucks game on a Thursday

[Wu36]

I agree.

[Wu36]

Nobody pays more for Monday, Thursday, or the later season Saturdays for nfl. . Shows like for instance the walking dead go around December and January not because of football only, it’s family events and holidays which nba has proven to be successful at

[talkspurs]

That would be three distorted seasons. They’re trying both to reset to normal, and not miss the Christmas TV ratings bonanza. That’s big dollars they’re passing up, and will cost the players plenty.

I agree with you on the Christmas games being lost would be big. I think they could deal with this disjointed season as they would know when it is coming back and also would get fans into arena for PO possibly. I also know the NBA does not want the late season but I do still think December would be a better start in a normal year.

[mo7888]

Lou and bev

Those players were headed to Philly in the scenario he laid out..

[Chinook]

Lou and bev

They're guards who'd be in Philly. Not getting the issue.

[RC_Drunkford]

Nobody watches the NFL except fat Americans

FIFY

[Robz4000]

FIFY

Rude

[tbdog]

They're guards who'd be in Philly. Not getting the issue.

Who are we getting?

[Chinook]

Who are we getting?

Horford and picks. The post was pretty clear.

[tbdog]

Horford and picks. The post was pretty clear.

For DD and LMA?

[Chinook]

For DD and LMA?

It's all in the post. If you had no idea who was being traded and why, why did you react to it?

[tbdog]

It's all in the post. If you had no idea who was being traded and why, why did you react to it?

Because the post is a mess.

[DPG21920]

I love the Horford deal in the framing Chinook described. He’s a fine player for rebuild on the fly & get picks? Absolutely

[SpurPadre]

FIFY

Yeah but most Americans are fat.

[tbdog]

I love the Horford deal in the framing Chinook described. He’s a fine player for rebuild on the fly & get picks? Absolutely

If you can tell me what that deal is, that would be great.

[Chinook]

Because the post is a mess.

It's perfectly understandable to everyone else.

[FutureMan]

Honestly, paying Horford isn't the problem. I think the Spurs are okay with giving LMA that money on an extension, for example. Homeboy is overpaid as backup in Philly, but he earned a good contract by being a good player for years. The problem would be if SA lets their willingness to pay Horford lead them into a bad deal with Philly. They absolutely should be getting assets from the Sixers for doing the deal. It doesn't have to be the full for the contract as if Al were dead money. Certainly, they can come down on that if they feel Horford is a multi-year starter for them. But talking about this as a straight-up deal for LMA or with SA adding is way off the reservation. Ignoring that Aldridge is better than Horford, they need to leverage cap space for value before they can worry about building a team.

As I've said before, DMDR to LAC, Lou and Beverly to PHL and Horford to SA with the Spurs getting compensation works provided the Spurs find an Aldridge deal. But if they aren't going to have the mentality of a rebuilding team, they should just stay the course with their best players and reevaluate next off-season.

Id rather have the cap space and sign people to two year deals with the second year being unguaranteed until we found our stars.

If they really felt the need to do a trade like this I’d rather have Harris. He could play small ball PF if needed to give our younger guards some running time together. Especially if we draft a player at 11 who is a PG, SG, or SF.

This way you can just keep Aldridge. I’ve noticed people around the league are giving straight up trash for Aldridge in trades. I’d rather just keep him.

[Chinook]

Id rather have the cap space and sign people to two year deals with the second year being unguaranteed until we found our stars.

If they really felt the need to do a trade like this I’d rather have Harris. He could play small ball PF if needed to give our younger guards some running time together. Especially if we draft a player at 11 who is a PG, SG, or SF.

This way you can just keep Aldridge. I’ve noticed people around the league are giving straight up trash for Aldridge in trades. I’d rather just keep him.

I don't want the team to trade LMA either. But if he wants to go, you let him. But I don't think the Spurs should get in the business of experimental one-and-ones. If they're going to use their cap space to try out vets, let it be by them renting that space for short-term deals in trades. Basically next year (meaning 2021-2022) Horford will be a Gasol-esque semi expiring. I'd rather get paid to take him one than let Aldridge expire and then sign some rando for a similar deal.

Also, I don't agree on Tobias. Harris is a legit awful contract. Horford is overpaid, but he's been very good for a while. Between the two, Al definitely has the better contract. Harris is a legit candidate for worst contract in the league with Wall and Middleton. It would be hard for the Spurs to build anything with that on the books.

To be clear, I don't actually like that Horford deal all that much. I think it'd have to be part of a larger deal where Al gets moved to GS for Wiggins and somehow gets SA up to 2. Then you can keep LMA and avoid having to pay as much long-term salary as you would if you traded LMA there and DMDR for more money.

Like:

SA -> DeRozan, 11
SA <- Wiggins, 2, 21

GS -> Wiggins, 2
GS <- Horford, Thybulle, 11, 35

PHL -> Horford, Thybulle, 21, 35
PHL <- Williams, Beverly, Kabengele

LAC -> Williams, Beverly, Kabengele
LAC <- DeRozan

To me, that's more of an ideal DMDR trade. SA picks up a pick and gets a shot at a superstar in exchange for one of their best players and having to absorb an awful deal. It's possible other teams wouldn't go for it. LAC I'm not worried about, since they are giving up the bare minimum. If anything, I think they should give up more if they had it. Philly shouldn't have an issue if their goal is to build a more balanced team around their three best players. They have a ton of picks in the middle of the draft, and I don't think Morey is against moving a couple get off the Horford deal. Whether he'd hold out on 21 or not being willing to include Thybulle are the bigger question marks. Without 21, it's less worth it for SA but probably still doable if they can package 35 with 41 to get a late first. But I think Thybulle is key to GS doing their end.

That's why GS is cut out of the iteration of this I proposed earlier. I think it still works with 11, LMA and one of those seconds for 2 and Wiggins -- like I think GS take that and runs. But Horford AND Wiggins is a ton of bad salary to end up with to only have one extra pick. Add in the extra cost to of the higher pick, and it's a huge financial commitment. So keeping SA's take as Horford, 21, improving 41 to 35 and maybe a future pick or swap and then worrying about SA moving LMA or Al somewhere else seems like a pretty conservative stopping point.

[SpursStar]

The only way you take on Horford is if Thybulle is included imo.

[objective]

re: assistant coaches and Duncan

I had thought awhile back that it would be nice if Gentry or D'Antoni would join the bench to hang out with Pop as former co-workers he was comfortable with, but they both took assistant jobs with contenders and probably for a lot more money that the broke Spurs could come up with

So now the question is, who replaces Duncan if/when Duncan decides he's not coming back? I think I know.

Roy Rogers

He was on Boylan's staff in Chicago that all got let go when Donovan took over. He also started his whole coaching career in Austin under Snyder. He's bounced around a lot, but is free for work as far as I've seen. Roy Rogers, next Spurs big man coach.

[objective]

These Horford trade ideas are not appetizing.

At least the rationale in the supposed Wiggins-LMA trades is that he's still an okay player in his prime and you're getting compensated with the #2 pick for that terrible contract.

But the Horford rumors are to get a washed and decaying Horford and not appearing to get anything worthwhile for it.

[TD 21]

These Horford trade ideas are not appetizing.

At least the rationale in the supposed Wiggins-LMA trades is that he's still an okay player in his prime and you're getting compensated with the #2 pick for that terrible contract.

But the Horford rumors are to get a washed and decaying Horford and not appearing to get anything worthwhile for it.

Wiggins isn't "okay", Horford isn't "washed" and how is something like the 21st and 34th picks not worthwhile?

Add those to the 11th pick and let's say a lottery protected '21 1st from the Trail Blazers for Aldridge and they'd be in position to make a compelling offer to the Warriors for the 2nd pick.

They need inexpensive depth/youth and still have the Timberwolves '21 top 3 protected 1st to potentially add a more significant long term building block.

[talkspurs]

Wiggins isn't "okay", Horford isn't "washed" and how is something like the 21st and 34th picks not worthwhile?

Add those to the 11th pick and let's say a lottery protected '21 1st from the Trail Blazers for Aldridge and they'd be in position to make a compelling offer to the Warriors for the 2nd pick.

They need inexpensive depth/youth and still have the Timberwolves '21 top 3 protected 1st to potentially add a more significant long term building block.


So if we would use all those picks to get GS are you saying you would rather have Horford the Wiggins?

[TD 21]

So if we would use all those picks to get GS are you saying you would rather have Horford the Wiggins?

Absolutely. Still easily better overall, a better fit with the "culture"/youth and cheaper.

If they could do that and the 3 team trade I suggested, they'd have a rotation of . . .

Horford/Gay/Lyles
Fournier/Johnson
Wiseman/Horford
White/Walker
Murray/Mills

Kabengele, Samanic

[talkspurs]

Absolutely. Still easily better overall, a better fit with the "culture"/youth and cheaper.

If they could do that and the 3 team trade I suggested, they'd have a rotation of . . .

Horford/Gay/Lyles
Fournier/Johnson
Wiseman/Horford
White/Walker
Murray/Mills

Kabengele, Samanic

Where did Fournier come in and I disagree with you I would much rather still have our 11th and have Wiggins plus the ability to trade DDR then to have horford. Difference is only 2 mil and Wiggins if he becomes good fits in with our timeline.

[exstatic]

re: assistant coaches and Duncan

I had thought awhile back that it would be nice if Gentry or D'Antoni would join the bench to hang out with Pop as former co-workers he was comfortable with, but they both took assistant jobs with contenders and probably for a lot more money that the broke Spurs could come up with

So now the question is, who replaces Duncan if/when Duncan decides he's not coming back? I think I know.

Roy Rogers

He was on Boylan's staff in Chicago that all got let go when Donovan took over. He also started his whole coaching career in Austin under Snyder. He's bounced around a lot, but is free for work as far as I've seen. Roy Rogers, next Spurs big man coach.

D’Antoni never worked with Pop. His only Spurs connection was a brief stint as a player before exile to Italy.

[TD 21]

Where did Fournier come in and I disagree with you I would much rather still have our 11th and have Wiggins plus the ability to trade DDR then to have horford. Difference is only 2 mil and Wiggins if he becomes good fits in with our timeline.


To Clippers: DeRozan
To Magic: Beverley, Williams
To Spurs: Fournier, Kabengele

I'm skeptical of Wiseman's upside, but I'd take the potential core building block over a clear two way net negative with an albatross and 11, a likely role player who'd fit better on a good team. Wiggins has been in the league 6 seasons; he is what he is and what he is in the exact type of empty calories type they need to get away from. Horford, even in a diminished state, is the antithesis.

If they were interested in being the Hornets, they wouldn't have traded for DeRozan or retained Aldridge in the first place. If they move away from them, they're still most likely going to want credible older players to keep them pseudo competitive while helping shepherd the youth along.

[talkspurs]

My trade also has wiseman in there. it would be LMA for Wiggins and #2 so we would get #2 and #11. thats why I would rather have Wiggins then Horford. Also in your trade are we just sending Picks to GS? Clippers get DDR and Portland gets LMA. Why would GS do that trade of just picks? They want a win now player.

[TD 21]

My trade also has wiseman in there. it would be LMA for Wiggins and #2 so we would get #2 and #11. thats why I would rather have Wiggins then Horford. Also in your trade are we just sending Picks to GS? Clippers get DDR and Portland gets LMA. Why would GS do that trade of just picks? They want a win now player.

Getting 2 without including 11 is not realistic. Even in this draft and given their unique situation, they're not literally trading from near the top to out of the 1st round for a 35 year old, on an expiring contract, even if it means dumping an albatross in the process.

In my trade, "we're" offering: 11, 21 (76ers), 34 (76ers via Hawks) and the Trail Blazers lottery protected '21 1st for 2.

Again, they need inexpensive depth/youth and they still have the Timberwolves top 3 protected '21 1st to try to land a significant piece. They probably don't do it, but they at least have to think about it.

[talkspurs]

Getting 2 without including 11 is not realistic. Even in this draft and given their unique situation, they're not literally trading from near the top to out of the 1st round for a 35 year old, on an expiring contract, even if it means dumping an albatross in the process.

In my trade, "we're" offering: 11, 21 (76ers), 34 (76ers via Hawks) and the Trail Blazers lottery protected '21 1st for 2.

Again, they need inexpensive depth/youth and they still have the Timberwolves top 3 protected '21 1st to try to land a significant piece. They probably don't do it, but they at least have to think about it.

They are trying to win now. They are not a build for the future team. If I was them I would much rather have Aldridge then all the picks. Yes LMA would be enough to get #2 especially since we are taking on Wiggins contract. No teams want Wiggins so they have to attach a sweetener to get rid of him. Since the get LMA they also make themselves better this year. Your tade also has way to many parts to be likely. Your at 5 teams. I dont know when the last time a 5 team trade was done.

[TD 21]

They are trying to win now. They are not a build for the future team. If I was them I would much rather have Aldridge then all the picks. Yes LMA would be enough to get #2 especially since we are taking on Wiggins contract. No teams want Wiggins so they have to attach a sweetener to get rid of him. Since the get LMA they also make themselves better this year. Your tade also has way to many parts to be likely. Your at 5 teams. I dont know when the last time a 5 team trade was done.

They're trying to have a sustainable run along the lines of the Spurs. You don't do that by trading 2 for a 35 year old and as much as Wiggins is an albatross, his loss would further deplete their paper thin depth, especially on the wing.

In this case, the sweetener would be that they're taking the 35 year old on an expiring contract who otherwise wouldn't be able to get the Spurs anywhere near this caliber of asset (even if it is not a true 2).

Of course my trades (it'd initially be a 3 teamer, with the Warriors an option after the fact) aren't likely. Virtually no trade is. I propose trades I could envision compelling all parties involved, not just the Spurs.

[talkspurs]

They're trying to have a sustainable run along the lines of the Spurs. You don't do that by trading 2 for a 35 year old and as much as Wiggins is an albatross, his loss would further deplete their paper thin depth, especially on the wing.

In this case, the sweetener would be that they're taking the 35 year old on an expiring contract who otherwise wouldn't be able to get the Spurs anywhere near this caliber of asset (even if it is not a true 2).

Of course my trades (it'd initially be a 3 teamer, with the Warriors an option after the fact) aren't likely. Virtually no trade is. I propose trades I could envision compelling all parties involved, not just the Spurs.

Every team would love to have the tenure the Spurs had but its not realistic. They have about a 3 year window to win that. Yes this is about the time that Wiseman would be getting good if he does. Need to add to current team to win if not would not be looked at as a probable team to win just make PO.

[The Truth #6]

D’Antoni never worked with Pop. His only Spurs connection was a brief stint as a player before exile to Italy.

I thought he briefly worked as a scout for the Spurs.

[TD 21]

Every team would love to have the tenure the Spurs had but its not realistic. They have about a 3 year window to win that. Yes this is about the time that Wiseman would be getting good if he does. Need to add to current team to win if not would not be looked at as a probable team to win just make PO.

Of course it's not, but they've got a slim chance to pull of something somewhat similar and your proposal would fly in the face of that. Getting a projected plug and play, 3 and D combo forward like Bey at 11 would be potentially significant for them now and going forward.

[talkspurs]

Of course it's not, but they've got a slim chance to pull of something somewhat similar and your proposal would fly in the face of that. Getting a projected plug and play, 3 and D combo forward like Bey at 11 would be potentially significant for them now and going forward.

Right but If I am the Spurs I do not take on Wiggins contract for just that. It has to work both ways and they need it more then the Spurs. This also helps them with the Lux tax.

[TD 21]

Right but If I am the Spurs I do not take on Wiggins contract for just that. It has to work both ways and they need it more then the Spurs. This also helps them with the Lux tax.

The Spurs would know better than to waste their time if 11 wasn't involved. That's the only way it works both ways and they don't need it more than the Spurs. They can probably do better or at least as well elsewhere and if not, there's no rush to make a move.

[TheCerebral1]

Absolutely. Still easily better overall, a better fit with the "culture"/youth and cheaper.

If they could do that and the 3 team trade I suggested, they'd have a rotation of . . .

Horford/Gay/Lyles
Fournier/Johnson
Wiseman/Horford
White/Walker
Murray/Mills

Kabengele, Samanic

Why on earth would you want to make this team worse by trading for Horford. He's a bigger fossil than Aldridge. Taking on 27.5 million in cap for an over 30 shell of his former self. I've been adamant since day 1 about trading or removing DeRozan from this roster. I would rather give DeRozan a max three year extension than trade for that washed up scrub.

[venitian navigator]

They're trying to have a sustainable run along the lines of the Spurs. You don't do that by trading 2 for a 35 year old and as much as Wiggins is an albatross, his loss would further deplete their paper thin depth, especially on the wing.

In this case, the sweetener would be that they're taking the 35 year old on an expiring contract who otherwise wouldn't be able to get the Spurs anywhere near this caliber of asset (even if it is not a true 2).

Of course my trades (it'd initially be a 3 teamer, with the Warriors an option after the fact) aren't likely. Virtually no trade is. I propose trades I could envision compelling all parties involved, not just the Spurs.

I agree that the proposed trade (LMA for 2 and Wiggins) would deplete their depth on the wings, but its also true that for several reasons they need win now veterans.
That's why, having the Iguodala exception, a better trade would be LMA + Gay for 2, Wiggins+ AI trade exception
Gay just had a good bubble series of good games and is exactly the scoring kind of player they could be a good fit for them.

[PhantomDashCam]

https://twitter.com/swishcultures_/status/1321893060997951488?s=20

[rankingtear]

[Kevin O'Connor] - Rumblings around the league suggest Golden State and Charlotte covet Wiseman; to get him, the Hornets might need to leapfrog to trade up.

ATL Insider:

GS/CHA have had talks. CHA has shown interest in trading up but felt GS request was too high at first. Zeller was a target but CHA felt the price was too steep. They have since countered with 3/Batum/Monk for 2/Wiggins. This one has a real shot of happening.

[Chinook]

How the fuck is Zeller too much to pay for Wiseman?

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

lol GS would snap their hands off.

Doubt there's anything real in these 'insider' stories.

[rankingtear]

How the fuck is Zeller too much to pay for Wiseman?

In a trade up from 3 to 2?

[Chinook]

In a trade up from 3 to 2?

It doesn't matter. If you think Wiseman is the center of the future, why is your mediocre current center stopping the trade?

[rankingtear]

It doesn't matter. If you think Wiseman is the center of the future, why is your mediocre current center stopping the trade?

Depends what they think of the next guy on their board. Maybe they are not sure wiseman is better value than zeller + ball/edwards.

[Chinook]

Depends what they think of the next guy on their board. Maybe they are not sure wiseman is better value than zeller + ball/edwards.

That's what losing teams do. Zeller has no value against a center of the future. It's fine if they just don't like Wiseman. But it's not justifiable to think he's the best player available but hold out on a relative scrub like Zeller.

[bluebellmaniac]

I agree that the proposed trade (LMA for 2 and Wiggins) would deplete their depth on the wings, but its also true that for several reasons they need win now veterans.
That's why, having the Iguodala exception, a better trade would be LMA + Gay for 2, Wiggins+ AI trade exception
Gay just had a good bubble series of good games and is exactly the scoring kind of player they could be a good fit for them.


You can't trade a trade exception.... ???

[Dejounte]

I fucking woke up at 3am this morning because of a dream I had where we traded DeMar DeRozan for Utah's 5th overall pick and only realized it was a dream when I fucking realized Utah didn't have the 5th pick this year. Damnit

[exstatic]

You can't trade a trade exception.... ???

You kinda can. You trade a player into another team’s trade exception, taking back no salary. YOU now have a trade exception for doing so.

[bluebellmaniac]

You kinda can. You trade a player into another team’s trade exception, taking back no salary. YOU now have a trade exception for doing so.


Oh....

[TD 21]

Why on earth would you want to make this team worse by trading for Horford. He's a bigger fossil than Aldridge. Taking on 27.5 million in cap for an over 30 shell of his former self. I've been adamant since day 1 about trading or removing DeRozan from this roster. I would rather give DeRozan a max three year extension than trade for that washed up scrub.

Like I said multiple times, though past his prime, Horford can still play (76ers are a poor fit), would be a good fit all the way around and would bring draft pick(s) for taking on his albatross.

Depending on what they could get for DeRozan, they'd have a legit shot to be better short and long term.



I agree that the proposed trade (LMA for 2 and Wiggins) would deplete their depth on the wings, but its also true that for several reasons they need win now veterans.
That's why, having the Iguodala exception, a better trade would be LMA + Gay for 2, Wiggins+ AI trade exception
Gay just had a good bubble series of good games and is exactly the scoring kind of player they could be a good fit for them.

I suspect they'd prefer more so prime aged or young veterans and either way, a gimpy 34 year old on an expiring contract wouldn't diminish the importance of getting 11 for them.

[rankingtear]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4w9V0Yglgc

[rankingtear]

Tom Petrini , Kens5:

Al Horford's deal isn't quite as big, but it's big enough that anyone trading for him would likely get draft assets in return. He looked rough for long stretches of last season, but his skills would compliment San Antonio's roster. There seems to be some interest there.


Both teams in his hometown of Los Angeles may be looking for an upgrade at point guard, and DeRozan could be that. He basically played the point as the 4 in the bubble, and he’s still a bucket from 18-feet and in. He could also draw interest from the Bucks, who desperately needed shot creation in the playoffs. DeRozan has also been tied to Miami, where he’s close with Jimmy Butler.

[Dejounte]

https://www.reddit.com/r/AtlantaHawks/comments/jmpf1c/hawks_leak_info_thread_one/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

Same guy as that guy from the Hawks board or different?

[toki9]

https://www.reddit.com/r/AtlantaHawks/comments/jmpf1c/hawks_leak_info_thread_one/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

Same guy as that guy from the Hawks board or different?

Doesn't sound like it... https://www.hawksquawk.net/topic/431653-ask-supes/page/235/#comments

[rankingtear]

https://www.reddit.com/r/AtlantaHawks/comments/jmpf1c/hawks_leak_info_thread_one/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

Same guy as that guy from the Hawks board or different?

He says it's not him but he thinks the info is real.

[Dejounte]

My question is... Does their interest in DeMar conflict with their interest in the prospects listed in his first three points? Or are they thinking about offering NO 2020 pick for DeMar and actually are trying to put together a package that involves a couple of their current players?

[Dejounte]

John Collins from the Hawks would not be bad at all if we're not getting their 1st rd pick...

[rankingtear]

My question is... Does their interest in DeMar conflict with their interest in the prospects listed in his first three points? Or are they thinking about offering NO 2020 pick for DeMar and actually are trying to put together a package that involves a couple of their current players?

Demar and Hayward are opt out candidates and they have cap space to sign either one. Zach Lowe also supports atlanta's interest in Hayward if he opts out.

[Dejounte]

Demar and Hayward are opt out candidates and they have cap space to sign either one. Zach Lowe also supports atlanta's interest in Hayward if he opts out.

Well, shit... so we could end up with nothing?

[DPG21920]

Well, shit... so we could end up with nothing?

Definitely- if SA and DDR can’t find a trade partner he will walk for nothing

[Sugus]

Tom Petrini , Kens5:

Hmm, interesting, if the rumors are true... What picks does Philly have to trade that would be enticing?

[FutureMan]

Would need at least 2 firsts and a second to take that Horford contract. His contract is in my top ten of worst contracts out there.

[Thomas82]

[Kevin O'Connor] - Rumblings around the league suggest Golden State and Charlotte covet Wiseman; to get him, the Hornets might need to leapfrog to trade up.

ATL Insider:

GS/CHA have had talks. CHA has shown interest in trading up but felt GS request was too high at first. Zeller was a target but CHA felt the price was too steep. They have since countered with 3/Batum/Monk for 2/Wiggins. This one has a real shot of happening.

So was the Spurs' supposed interest in Wiseman just smokescreen?

[buttsR4rebounding]

Would need at least 2 firsts and a second to take that Horford contract. His contract is in my top ten of worst contracts out there.

Damn. What other lists do you keep? 5 Best Shoe Deals? How about ‘Top 8 players the Spurs should trade for because their wives are smoking hot’? Now that’s a thread...

[buttsR4rebounding]

So was the Spurs' supposed interest in Wiseman just smokescreen?

Same old story: use Wiseman to get to the Jew.

[pookenstein]

Damn. What other lists do you keep? 5 Best Shoe Deals? How about ‘Top 8 players the Spurs should trade for because their wives are smoking hot’? Now that’s a thread...

Tony Parker has entered the conversation...

[Thomas82]

Same old story: use Wiseman to get to the Jew.

I can believe that.

[4lifecowboy]

How would a Derozan, White, and Samanic to the Warriors for Wiggins and #2 overall, go over with fans?

[kobyz]

i would trade DeRozan and #11 for Wiggins and #2, it's a no brainer for us, people should stop with that bs of saving cap space, you don't gonna build through FA only through the draft!

[4lifecowboy]

i would trade DeRozan and #11 for Wiggins and #2, it's a no brainer for us, people should stop with that bs of saving cap space, you don't gonna build through FA only through the draft!
Would want to keep 11 to add another young front court player.

[kobyz]

Would want to keep 11 to add another young front court player.

i think we have to in order to make the deal... but we can try to follow with another trade to get high draft pick:
https://tradenba.com/trades/Zh7LUFZT7

-with #2 and #3 i'm drafting Wiseman and Deni, Spurs future:
Derrick White
Keldon Johnson/Lonnie Walker
Deni Avdjia/Andrew Wiggins
Luka Samanic/Nassir Little
James Wiseman

[Sugus]

How would a Derozan, White, and Samanic to the Warriors for Wiggins and #2 overall, go over with fans?

Pretty bad, IMO. You'd be trading a fan-favorite (White, ofc) and a very young potential building block, and bringing back a low-effort player on a massive contract that doesn't really appeal to the public (San Antonians aren't so stupid as to fall for Wiggins' "upside", I'd like to think). Now, whether it'd be a good basketball move or not is a different story, I personally wouldn't do the deal, but it's not hard to see it wouldn't be a welcome trade by fans.

[RC_Drunkford]

i think we have to in order to make the deal... but we can try to follow with another trade to get high draft pick:
https://tradenba.com/trades/Zh7LUFZT7

-with #2 and #3 i'm drafting Wiseman and Deni, Spurs future:
Derrick White
Keldon Johnson/Lonnie Walker
Deni Avdjia/Andrew Wiggins
Luka Samanic/Nassir Little
James Wiseman

you want a cokehead on the team?

[RC_Drunkford]

I think it's not out of the realm of possibility that the Spurs would try to get Horford while keeping Aldridge. I can totally see Pop playing Horford as PF next to LA

[4lifecowboy]

Pretty bad, IMO. You'd be trading a fan-favorite (White, ofc) and a very young potential building block, and bringing back a low-effort player on a massive contract that doesn't really appeal to the public (San Antonians aren't so stupid as to fall for Wiggins' "upside", I'd like to think). Now, whether it'd be a good basketball move or not is a different story, I personally wouldn't do the deal, but it's not hard to see it wouldn't be a welcome trade by fans.

We would have to offer one our young guards to get the #2 without giving up the 11th pick. White while showing up the most in the bubble is also closest to his ceiling. If we could get Wiseman at 2, I would really like to take a chance with Pokusevski at 11.

[Chinook]

How would a Derozan, White, and Samanic to the Warriors for Wiggins and #2 overall, go over with fans?

The team would likely be a lot worse unless it ended up being Edwards as the pick and dude comes in as a day-one star. Murray should really be the one going out just for cap purposes. Sam is a weird sell, but whatever. Hopefully, you get Edwards and draft a forward at 11

Murray, Mills, Vet PG
Edwards, Walker, Weatherspoon
Johnson, Wiggins, Woodard
Lyles, Gay, Williams
Aldridge, Poeltl, Eubanks

Would like it a lot more if White were the one who stayed, but you could make an argument.

[exstatic]

How would a Derozan, White, and Samanic to the Warriors for Wiggins and #2 overall, go over with fans?

THE WARRIORS WANT A BIG TO CONTEND WITH DAVIS, JOKIC, AND GOBERT IN THE PLAYOFFS.

[Sugus]

We would have to offer one our young guards to get the #2 without giving up the 11th pick. White while showing up the most in the bubble is also closest to his ceiling. If we could get Wiseman at 2, I would really like to take a chance with Pokusevski at 11.

I was merely talking about fan reception to the trade, not really the viability of said trade. I understand White is the better guard to be traded (I've talked about that on this very thread), but I don't like the particular trade you proposed since we lose Samanic for virtually nothing, and could get better value for White IMO, or at least on a different trade package separate from DDR. Lastly, there's no way GSW agrees to that deal; they have no use for a rookie like Sammich nor a non-3, non-D, high-ball usage guard in DDR who'd take the ball away from Curry and Klay and be worse than the both of them. So I'm not really seeing it, tbh.

[The Truth #6]

Any way we could trade LMA to get an additional 1st round pick after 11? Moving up to take on other’s trash sounds awful. Next year’s draft is supposed to have better top options. Shit, in Kevin O’Connor’s mock draft from the Ringer today, he has Toppin dropping all the way to 11. With so much uncertainty in the first round, I’m content seeing what drops to 11.

[gambit1990]

so... when can players be signed, etc.?

[talkspurs]

so... when can players be signed, etc.?

They have to decide on when the season will start and cap before they can be signed. not haveing this agreed upon could hurt trading during the draft as well.

[Degoat]

They need to quit dicking around and make a decision already about the upcoming season

[exstatic]

They need to quit dicking around and make a decision already about the upcoming season

There’s a lot of money at stake between the two options: Christmas vs. MLK. The later start could cost 500 million in lost revenue.

[lmbebo]

Players want it all. Don't want to suffer like everyone else. They want to wait, but they aren't willing to to take the economic hit for it. Its all about the TV contracts and they are risking it all...

[FutureMan]

Damn. What other lists do you keep? 5 Best Shoe Deals? How about ‘Top 8 players the Spurs should trade for because their wives are smoking hot’? Now that’s a thread...

Lol most hardcore basketball fans I’ve seen/talked with can easily rattle off 10 terrible contracts in the NBA... so I’m not sure if your insult works very well. But nice try.

[ace3g]

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1197929409044504576/nKXnm0aN_normal.jpg (https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania) Shams Charania (https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania) (https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania) ShamsCharania (https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania)





The New Orleans Pelicans are openly discussing star Jrue Holiday in trade talks and several contending teams are pursuing, sources tell @TheAthleticNBA (https://twitter.com/TheAthleticNBA/) @Stadium (https://twitter.com/Stadium/).
9:16am · 4 Nov 2020 (https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1324007585868107777) · TweetDeck (https://help.twitter.com/en/using-twitter/how-to-tweet#source-labels)

[lefty]

ZOMG Lonnie has been working out with Jrue

itsallconnected

[look_at_g_shred]

I'm confused, can trades be done right now? Or just agreed to until Dec 1st?

[lefty]

We have nothing interesting to offer anyway :lol

[exstatic]

I'm confused, can trades be done right now? Or just agreed to until Dec 1st?

There’s a window during the draft.

[ace3g]

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/915224345680658432/AmJzw4Pl_normal.jpg (https://twitter.com/TheSteinLine) Marc Stein (https://twitter.com/TheSteinLine) (https://twitter.com/TheSteinLine) @TheSteinLine (https://twitter.com/TheSteinLine)




NBA Voting Update: All the momentum on the player side today indicates that the union, through a vote of team player representatives, is poised to ratify the NBA's plan to open training camps Dec. 1 and start the 2020-21 season Dec. 22 by week's end
3:31pm · 4 Nov 2020 (https://twitter.com/TheSteinLine/status/1324102086599053315) · TweetDeck (https://help.twitter.com/en/using-twitter/how-to-tweet#source-labels)

[Chinook]

I'm confused, can trades be done right now? Or just agreed to until Dec 1st?

Normally, trades can be done as soon as both/all teams in the deal are eliminated from the playoffs. But the NBA put a moratorium on trades, probably back when the bubble opened. So until they officially lift it, no. As Ex said, they're supposed to lift it in time for the draft, but we won't know that until later in the week.

[KobesAchilles]

I’m hoping we make a push for Hayward who apparently wants out of Boston

[Robz4000]

I’m hoping we make a push for Hayward who apparently wants out of Boston

Hayward's done tbh.

[gambit1990]

pass on hayward.

[KobesAchilles]

Hayward's done tbh.
He can be revived!

[exstatic]

Normally, trades can be done as soon as both/all teams in the deal are eliminated from the playoffs. But the NBA put a moratorium on trades, probably back when the bubble opened. So until they officially lift it, no. As Ex said, they're supposed to lift it in time for the draft, but we won't know that until later in the week.

There’s a window, during the playoffs, when non-playoff teams, or teams eliminated from the playoffs can make trades. That slams shut as soon as the horn sounds on the last game of the Finals. That’s where we are now. Not sure exactly what happens going forward, but they will open a window during the draft.

[gambit1990]

He can be revived!
yeah, on the warriors.

[pad300]

I’m hoping we make a push for Hayward who apparently wants out of Boston

Not without getting paid to take on his contract...

[Chinook]

There’s a window, during the playoffs, when non-playoff teams, or teams eliminated from the playoffs can make trades. That slams shut as soon as the horn sounds on the last game of the Finals.

Huh? That's not the way it works normally. You can trade anytime between when you've finished your last game and the following trade deadline, with the only other exception being the five (previously 10) day window of the regular moratorium. There is normally not a window that closes between the Finals and the draft. That's only because of this season.


104. What is the trade deadline?
The trade deadline is defined as 3:00 PM Eastern Time on the 10th day prior to All-Star Sunday -- i.e., the Thursday of the second week prior to the All-Star game. This is the point during the season after which trades are prohibited. The prohibition on trades lasts until the day following the team's final game of the season (see question number 101 (http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q101)), although playoff teams are allowed to trade players that are not on their playoff roster the day after the regular season ends.

[hombre]

Hayward is made of paper.

[JuneJive]

Like Hayward, DeRozan has a lucrative player option ($27.7 million) that he will almost certainly pick up. Unlike Hayward, there really isn’t even a conversation to have with his team about opting out to sign a longer-term deal. The Spurs are rebuilding and DeRozan is 31, so a more likely scenario is a trade after he opts into the deal.

- Hollinger