official offseason thread

[Chinook]

And so it begins... The overrating of Devin.

Let the zombie floodgates burst open.

High draft pick or not, you play the best players.

I guess Keldon still has to earn people's respect around here. He would have been a top 10 draft pick in this draft, knowing what we know (most competitive player, scores efficiently, extreme work ethic easily seen by the improvement to his body)

You don't "start the best players". You start the combinations of players you believe will get you the best outcome. Remember that Pop started Bryn Forbes last year and only started Johnson after DeRozan was scratched. I don't think you can assume that Pop will use the rotation you want. I should also be the case that they REALLY liked Vassell. You may not have liked him as much, but the Spurs may well see a guy they think is their new blue-chipper. If that's the case, you start him and don't worry about anything else.

Of course, with no DeRozan, Johnson could possibly get the nod over Walker to be the two-guard. I like his fit with White better than the one with Murray though.

[Chinook]

Trade DeMar, Metu to Orlando for AG, Bamba. If Poeltl costs too much, let him walk. Season goes well, trade LMA before trade deadline.

DW - PM - TJ
DJM - LW4 - QW
AG - KJ - DV
LMA - RG - LS
TL - MB - DE

That lineup is awful, no lie.

[TD 21]

The actualized version of Vassell is the best starting option opposite DeRozan on the wing, but with no Summer League and a condensed preseason and this team having virtually no margin for error if they're to be a playoff team, I can't see him starting from day one.

He'll probably be on the fringe of the rotation, battling Walker/Johnson for backup wing minutes.

[LCM]

That lineup is awful, no lie.

What works for you?

[Dejounte]

You don't "start the best players". You start the combinations of players you believe will get you the best outcome. Remember that Pop started Bryn Forbes last year and only started Johnson after DeRozan was scratched. I don't think you can assume that Pop will use the rotation you want. I should also be the case that they REALLY liked Vassell. You may not have liked him as much, but the Spurs may well see a guy they think is their new blue-chipper. If that's the case, you start him and don't worry about anything else.

Of course, with no DeRozan, Johnson could possibly get the nod over Walker to be the two-guard. I like his fit with White better than the one with Murray though.

"Really liked Vassell" is missing so many layers. Just because you "like" a prospect in a certain draft, doesn't mean it overrides everything else. That's a silly take. That's like saying I like ice cream today, and I liked chips yesterday. Doesn't mean I like ice cream over chips.

[Drom John]

Bang for the buck, worth less salary

$25,144,937 White
$11,870,114 Poeltl
$ 8,571.429 Mills
$ 5,678,265 Murray
$ 1,881,240 Johnson
$ 1,399,671 Zeller (sample size error)
$ 203,712 Metu
-$ 512,721 Carroll (not included in worth)
-$ 689,920 Samanic
-$1,273,068 Walker
-$1,349,383 Moore
-$1,378,242 Paul
-$1,971,889 Forbes
-$2,500,000 Ginobili
-$2,935,247 Lyles
-$4,429,302 Belinelli
-$6,343,500 Gay
-$13,698,879 DeRozan
-$15,500,000 Aldridge

[EasyMoney]

Hassan Whiteside likely not returning to Portland. Might only be getting the MLE

[mo7888]

I know FA opens here shortly but, deals that involve a S&T can those be announced today or is that tampering of some type?

[Leetonidas]

Did Chinook really suggest trading for Tobias Harris?? :lmao your cap skills are unmatched but that is a disgusting trade proposal my guy. Harris is a top 3 worst contract in the league behind John Wall and Klay Thompson now

[TD 21]

Augustin makes a lot of sense for the Bucks. Don't think they'd have traded DiVincenzo for Mills anyway. Both third guards, only the former is significantly younger/cheaper for the next 2 years. The offer probably would have been Ilyasova, Wilson and 2 2nds.


They could sign and trade Robin Lopez 3 years/39M (13M per) with only the first year guaranteed. It matched Mills salary, SA can let Poeltl walk and preserve cap space and have their one year replacement for Poeltl as well. Then waive Robin next season.

Robin agrees because he was making 5M so he gets a big one year deal and he gets right back into FA next year with more money.

Boom. Done.

I don't like it at all. Makes the team worse without getting a worthwhile asset for it. Mills is expiring himself and they'll have significant cap space next off season whether Poeltl is re-signed or not.

Also, unless you're going to utilize it as a dumping ground for dead money to extract draft capital, it's overrated. As long as you have an easy path to creating it if need be, that's all that matters.



Philly was the other rumored place. I hope Mills gets another shot at a chip.

Curry will fill the same role Mills would have.



An underrated potential deal could be G and DeRozan for Harris (and hopefully some compensation). With Green and Curry on the roster, the Sixers no longer have spacing issues

They still have spacing issues with their two best players. DeRozan would only compound those, which makes him untenable. With Embiid a dominant post player/limited shooter and Simmons a non one, virtually everyone else has to be one.

[Dejounte]

I also don't think it's Keldon that Devin would be supplanting... That would be Lonnie whose role is in danger, unless he can have more point guard duties.

[Degoat]

I also don't think it's Keldon that Devin would be supplanting... That would be Lonnie whose role is in danger.

I agree, I honestly think this is a make or break year for Lonnie with the spurs, he has so much elite potential but Keldon out played him in the bubble and if Devin shows better too this season it’ll be bad news for Lonnie

[TD 21]

Agreed on Walker being more in danger than Johnson, but it's all up in the air really.

In a scenario where Aldridge and/or DeRozan are traded (yeah, right), Harris wouldn't be a bad idea if it meant extracting draft capital alongside, but they've cleared so much money at this point that they're better off not salary dumping him because he is a good fit (especially now that he can revert to defending PF's), just drastically overpaid.

[cjw]

Did Chinook really suggest trading for Tobias Harris?? :lmao your cap skills are unmatched but that is a disgusting trade proposal my guy. Harris is a top 3 worst contract in the league behind John Wall and Klay Thompson now

Nah, I’d rather have Klay... and that’s scary to prefer a guy who won’t have played in an NBA game for two years who probably will go from being a very good defender to a minus, albeit not a Forbes or Beli.

Tobias will help you win just enough games to hurt your draft spot.

[Degoat]

Not gonna lie I was going through the free agency list and there so many bigs I’d rather have then Jakob lol

[Dejounte]

Lonnie vs Devin is the new Murray vs White.

Wait for it.

[Mugen]

Lonnie vs Devin is the new Murray vs White.

Wait for it.

Does that mean they won't play together until all possible options have been exhausted and the team is out of the playoffs? :lol What a senile old man

[DesignatedT]

There is no Murray vs White. White is 10x better.

[Dejounte]

There is no Murray vs White. White is 10x better.

Well yeah, we can say that now. But a year or two years ago?

[objective]

Does that mean they won't play together until all possible options have been exhausted and the team is out of the playoffs? :lol What a senile old man

Yes :lol

[Leetonidas]

so free agency officially begins in like 10 minutes right? i wonder if we'll start hearing about agreements tonight

[cjw]

so free agency officially begins in like 10 minutes right? i wonder if we'll start hearing about agreements tonight

We will start at 6:00 and one second. I’m sure Woj and Shams have tweets saved as drafts

[Robz4000]

Hayward going to Indy. Now I can stop hearing/reading about the Spurs trading for him.

[gambit1990]

spurs waive metu.

[Joseph Kony]

I can already see

6:01PM - Spurs and Forbes agree to 4 year, 54 million dollar extension fully guaranteed

[Degoat]

spurs waive metu.

He just never could put things together

[cjw]

1329920336117248000

[Joseph Kony]

Good. Dude sucked and never looked like an actual ball player every time i saw him play

[Degoat]

Y’all joke about Bryn Forbes but watch him go to GSW and just kill it for them lol

[BackHome]

I heard they offered Poodle a 1 year deal for 5 Mill not sure if this is legit?

[gambit1990]

who has been in pop's ear concerning moving away from forbes, marco, metu ?? keep it up !

[EasyMoney]

I heard they offered Poodle a 1 year deal for 5 Mill not sure if this is legit?



If true then the spurs might actually be taking this team seriously. Shocking.

[Shakril]

I heard they offered Poodle a 1 year deal for 5 Mill not sure if this is legit?

That is the Qualifying offer. He did not sign it, else we would already know it.

[Eaglenole2002]

Woj says we signed Eubanks to a three-year deal.

[Chinook]

"Really liked Vassell" is missing so many layers. Just because you "like" a prospect in a certain draft, doesn't mean it overrides everything else. That's a silly take. That's like saying I like ice cream today, and I liked chips yesterday. Doesn't mean I like ice cream over chips.

Except you clear didn't like chips enough to take them over a prospect at 19 last year

[Mal]

Eubanks deal gotta be 2+1, right. More likely TO or partially guaranteed 3rd year.

[CGD]

1329920336117248000

It was time.

[kobyz]

why is Tyler Zeller on the book for next season for $2,436,046 according to https://hoopshype.com/salaries/san_antonio_spurs/?

[Chinook]

why is Tyler Zeller on the book for next season for $2,436,046 according to https://hoopshype.com/salaries/san_antonio_spurs/?

Because he's old and sucks.

[Dejounte]

Except you clear didn't like chips enough to take them over a prospect at 19 last year

And then you taste those chips and realize theyre fucking good and youre getting them over the chips at 19 next time if there was a re-draft.

Every interview they have said he was a steal. What does a steal mean to you? Someone being better than they expected. Even now, they likely think he's better than Luka. Not sure why that needs to be brought up, ignoring the timeline between the last draft and the next. That's a big gap of important information.

[Chinook]

And then you taste those chips and realize theyre fucking good and youre getting them over the chips at 19 next time if there was a re-draft.

Every interview they have said he was a steal. What does a steal mean to you? Someone being better than they expected. Even now, they likely think he's better than Luka. Not sure why that needs to be brought up, ignoring the timeline between the last draft and the next. That's a big gap of important information.

They said all that and STILL didn't start Johnson until DeRozan sat the last game. This is when the only folks keeping 'Tang on the bench were Walker and Murray. They still didn't bring him up. I don't think it's wise to assume that Vassell is that solidly behind anyone on the team right now given that the team turned down offers to move down in order to secure him. That's basically the opposite of what they did with Johnson. So it doesn't make sense to act like Vassell starting is unseating Johnson. It's not. There's an empty spot in the starting lineup this year, and any of White, Walker, Vassell and Johnson can get it.

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/TweetsFromAlpha/status/1329946461753249792?s=19

Who is the guy who kept begging for Jerami??

[Chinook]

Predictable. DAF86 wanted him for that exact contract, actually. Feels too rich for my blood, but Denver has been very aggressive in their pursuit of a ring.

[Dejounte]

He was a solid Kawhi defender, but he just couldn't score.

[Shakril]

Detroit is piling up Centers like candy. Are they trying to play big, i mean like really big, with at least 3 centers on the court all the time....

[Atl Spur]

https://twitter.com/TweetsFromAlpha/status/1329946461753249792?s=19

Who is the guy who kept begging for Jerami??

Begging? Bro, slow down........ obviously I’m not the only one thought he was a good fit for their team.

[ace3g]

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1264902234703265794/lC3YnIYF_normal.jpg (https://twitter.com/wojespn) Adrian Wojnarowski (https://twitter.com/wojespn) (https://twitter.com/wojespn) @wojespn (https://twitter.com/wojespn)





Free agent Montrezl Harrell has agreed to a two-year deal with the Los Angeles Lakers, agent Rich Paul of @KlutchSports (https://twitter.com/KlutchSports/) tells ESPN.
8:44pm · 20 Nov 2020 (https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1329978877989580801) · Twitter Web App (https://help.twitter.com/en/using-twitter/how-to-tweet#source-labels)

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Free agent Jerami Grant has agreed to a three-year, $60 million deal with the Detroit Pistons, sources tell @TheAthleticNBA (https://twitter.com/TheAthleticNBA/) @Stadium (https://twitter.com/Stadium/). Deal negotiated by agent Mike Kneisley.
8:59pm · 20 Nov 2020 (https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1329982846291894273) · TweetDeck (https://help.twitter.com/en/using-twitter/how-to-tweet#source-labels)



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Adrian Wojnarowski @wojespn
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Free agent guard Joe Harris has agreed to a four-year, $75M deal to return to the Brooklyn Nets, his agent Mark Bartelstein @PrioritySports (https://twitter.com/PrioritySports/) tells ESPN.


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Adrian Wojnarowski @wojespn
(https://twitter.com/wojespn) 11m (https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1329981103214645248)
Free agent forward Davis Bertans has agreed to a 5-year, $80M deal to return to the Washington Wizards, his agent @ArtursKalnitis (https://twitter.com/ArtursKalnitis/) tells ESPN. Deal includes an ETO after fourth year. One of biggest deals ever for a European-based agent in NBA.

[ace3g]

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Adrian Wojnarowski @wojespn
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Free agent Garrett Temple has agreed to a one-year, $5M deal with Chicago, agent Mark Bartelstein of @PrioritySports (https://twitter.com/PrioritySports/) tells ESPN.

[ace3g]

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Adrian Wojnarowski @wojespn
(https://twitter.com/wojespn) 1m (https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1329986312720551945)
Free agent F Christian Wood has agreed to a three-year, $41M deal with the Houston Rockets, sources tell ESPN.

[Chinook]

That's a lot for Bertans. Basically way too much in a stagnant cap. But he'll probably be tradeable.

[ace3g]

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Adrian Wojnarowski @wojespn
(https://twitter.com/wojespn) 1m (https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1329987097864908800)
Deal expected to be completed with a sign-and-trade via Detroit, per source.

[DPG21920]

Grant signed with DET not DEN

[ace3g]

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Free agent Derrick Jones has agreed to a two-year, $19M deal with the Portland Trail Blazers, sources tell @TheAthleticNBA (https://twitter.com/TheAthleticNBA/) @Stadium (https://twitter.com/Stadium/).
9:21pm · 20 Nov 2020 (https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1329988235397836801) · TweetDeck (https://help.twitter.com/en/using-twitter/how-to-tweet#source-labels)

[Chinook]

I'll be perfectly happy if SA doesn't use that MLE this year. This is crazy money.

[mo7888]

I'll be perfectly happy if SA doesn't use that MLE this year. This is crazy money.

Just wait until next year when everybody has cap space...its gonna be insane and many franchises are going to screw their futures.

[Chinook]

Just wait until next year when everybody has cap space...its gonna be insane and many franchises are going to screw their futures.

Might make sense to extend White now if they can get him for something around what Murray got. On principle I was against it. But now...

[JuneJive]

What is Weaver doing?

I thought he was good, he was with Presti.
Maybe there is some method to his madness.
Even if they offload Blake to DEN.

[mo7888]

Might make sense to extend White now if they can get him for something around what Murray got. On principle I was against it. But now...

I agree.... it's also got me leaning your way about win now moves instead of preserving cap space for next year. Looking at these contracts make me more inclined to go after a Paul George, Gordon Hayward, or even Fournier... a real good vet on a 2+ year contract would help this team and it would be valuable next summer when teams have cap space and have to choose between an overpay or giving up assets for player under a more manageable contract.

[R. DeMurre]

Detroit is piling up Centers like candy. Are they trying to play big, i mean like really big, with at least 3 centers on the court all the time....

And they drafted a center! I think they have 5 centers on the roster right now.

[R. DeMurre]

What is Weaver doing?

I thought he was good, he was with Presti.
Maybe there is some method to his madness.
Even if they offload Blake to DEN.

There's got to be something in the works-- 5 centers on their roster at the moment.

[CGD]

Gallo to ATL. Can we please trade DDR into their space for one of Hunter/Reddish?

Gives them a nice starting 5 of:

Young
DDR
Hunter/Reddish
Gallo
Capella

[ace3g]

Is that your final answer?

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Adrian Wojnarowski @wojespn
(https://twitter.com/wojespn) 19s (https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1329997776227348480)
Free agent Marcus Morris has agreed to return to the Clippers, source tells ESPN.


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Adrian Wojnarowski @wojespn
(https://twitter.com/wojespn) 47s (https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1329997833857077255)
Deal: 4 years, $64M, per source.

[Prime BEEF]

Gallo to ATL. Can we please trade DDR into their space for one of Hunter/Reddish?

Gives them a nice starting 5 of:

Young
DDR
Hunter/Reddish
Gallo
Capella
Reddish and OO would be awesome

[ace3g]

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Shams Charania ShamsCharania
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Free agent James Ennis has agreed to a one-year deal to return to the Orlando Magic, sources tell @TheAthleticNBA (https://twitter.com/TheAthleticNBA/) @Stadium (https://twitter.com/Stadium/).

[ace3g]

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Shams Charania ShamsCharania
(https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania) 3m (https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1330007679318765570)
Free agent Justin Holiday has agreed to a three-year, $18.1M deal to return to the Indiana Pacers, sources tell @TheAthleticNBA (https://twitter.com/TheAthleticNBA/) @Stadium (https://twitter.com/Stadium/).

[gambit1990]

under contract
free agent
player option


la ($24)
marco
demar ($27.7)


dj ($14.3)
poeltl



rudy ($14)
forbes (thank god)



patty ($13.3)
eubanks



trey ($5.5)
quinndary



derrick ($3.5)




lonnie ($2.9)




luka ($2.8)




zeller ($2.4)




kj ($2)




metu ($1.7)






updates in blue



under contract
free agent


demar ($27.7)
marco


la ($24)
forbes (thank god)


dj ($14.3)
quinndary (QO)


rudy ($14)



patty ($13.3)



poeltl ($9)



trey ($5.5)



derrick ($3.5)



lonnie ($2.9)



luka ($2.8)



zeller ($2.4)



kj ($2)



eubanks ($1.76)



m̶̶̶e̶̶̶t̶̶̶u̶̶̶ ̶(̶$̶1̶.̶7̶)̶

[ace3g]

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Adrian Wojnarowski @wojespn
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Free agent G Pat Connaughton has agreed to a two-year, $8.3M deal to return to the Milwaukee Bucks, agents Jeff Schwartz and Jordan Gertler of @excelsm_bball (https://twitter.com/excelsm_bball/) tell ESPN.



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Adrian Wojnarowski @wojespn
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Player option on the second year, his agents tell ESPN.

[gambit1990]

https://twitter.com/paulgarcianba/status/1330018270322302977?s=21

[ace3g]

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Mavericks guard Delon Wright is headed to Detroit as a part of a three-team trade with OKC, source tells ESPN. Detroit's Trevor Ariza is going to the Mavericks.

Adrian Wojnarowski @wojespn
(https://twitter.com/wojespn)

OKC is trading James Johnson to the Dallas Mavericks, sources tell ESPN.


12:10am · 21 Nov 2020 (https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1330030918459936769) · Twitter Web App (https://help.twitter.com/en/using-twitter/how-to-tweet#source-labels)



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Adrian Wojnarowski @wojespn
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Here's the deal: The Mavericks gets James Johnson; Pistons get Delon Wright; OKC gets Ariza, Justin Jackson and pick.

[ace3g]

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The Thunder have agreed in principle to trade Steven Adams to the Pelicans as part of a multi-team trade, sources tell ESPN. OKC is getting back -- wait for it -- future first-round pick and second-round picks.
12:25am · 21 Nov 2020 (https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1330034629387096066) · Twitter Web App (https://help.twitter.com/en/using-twitter/how-to-tweet#source-labels)

[Spursfanfromafar]

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The Thunder have agreed in principle to trade Steven Adams to the Pelicans as part of a multi-team trade, sources tell ESPN. OKC is getting back -- wait for it -- future first-round pick and second-round picks.
12:25am · 21 Nov 2020 (https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1330034629387096066) · Twitter Web App (https://help.twitter.com/en/using-twitter/how-to-tweet#source-labels)


Lol. How many first round picks for the Thunder now in the next six years? Last I counted ..it was 17!

[ace3g]

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Adrian Wojnarowski @wojespn
(https://twitter.com/wojespn) 53s (https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1330036549388554242)
Sources: The Steven Adams-to-Pelicans trade includes Denver, which traded a 2023 lottery protected first-round pick for the 24th pick (RJ Hampton) on draft night. That pick is headed to the Thunder -- along with two seconds -- for Adams.

[objective]

Steven Adams makes almost exactly what Aldridge would with LMA's trade kicker, and he's expiring like LMA, and he's worth 1 first and 2 seconds

Either LMA is hated around the league, or RC and Wright are not so great at their jobs, or the Spurs really really want to keep LMA before he leaves for Portland

[Prime BEEF]

Steven Adams makes almost exactly what Aldridge would with LMA's trade kicker, and he's expiring like LMA, and he's worth 1 first and 2 seconds

Either LMA is hated around the league, or RC and Wright are not so great at their jobs, or the Spurs really really want to keep LMA before he leaves for Portland
You know the answer to those questions

[ace3g]

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Shams Charania ShamsCharania
(https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania) 52s (https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1330038700894466048)
Free agent JaMychal Green has agreed to a two-year, $15M deal with the Denver Nuggets, with player option in second season, sources tell @TheAthleticNBA (https://twitter.com/TheAthleticNBA/) @Stadium (https://twitter.com/Stadium/).

[Dejounte]

What the actual fuck are the Thunder doing

[Robz4000]

What the actual fuck are the Thunder doing

Gonna tank like crazy this upcoming season to get a top pick in what promises to be a great draft, then prolly package some of these picks for a star or two to pair with whoever they draft and SGA.

[Spursfanfromafar]

So, Clippers lose Harrell & JaMychal Green both to free agency? There must be a trade incoming for them...

[slick'81]

Steven Adams makes almost exactly what Aldridge would with LMA's trade kicker, and he's expiring like LMA, and he's worth 1 first and 2 seconds

Either LMA is hated around the league, or RC and Wright are not so great at their jobs, or the Spurs really really want to keep LMA before he leaves for Portland


Adams isnt 35 y/0

[Dejounte]

So, Clippers lose Harrell & JaMychal Green both to free agency? There must be a trade incoming for them...

They have nothing to trade. I'm happy to see Neph suffer.

[objective]

some people were speculating on Twitter and probably here also that I didn't see that maybe DeRozan will be traded for Blake Griffin

Basically the Detroit moves were so stupid that they likely would have been done with Casey's input, and that a reunion with Casey would be something Casey could campaign for

It's stupid, but it kind of makes sense if Detroit wants to shed a year of salary :lol

And Brian Wright supposedly said they weren't done ... :stirpot:

[Spursfanfromafar]

Is there a chance the Celtics trade for Aldridge? They missed a big who could work against Adebayo last season. Plus Hayward has opted out as well.

[objective]

Is there a chance the Celtics trade for Aldridge? They missed a big who could work against Adebayo last season. Plus Hayward has opted out as well.

thought for awhile that a 3 team deal of LMA to Boston, Hayward to IND, and Turner to SA would make a lot of sense. Some other pieces would have to be moved around, maybe McDermott somewhere.

But if a deal had been in the works for Turner, do the Spurs sign Poeltl?

So I guess it was just a dream

[Dejounte]

Pretty sure the ship has sailed as far as trading anyone on this roster... Y'all need to come to terms with it lol

[gospursgojas]

Pretty sure the ship has sailed as far as trading anyone on this roster... Y'all need to come to terms with it lol

Yep. Running it back with hopefully Bubble spurs plus Alderidge and sans Forbes and Marco. Seems like a slight win to me. First round exist at best.

[TheDoctor]

Pretty sure the ship has sailed as far as trading anyone on this roster... Y'all need to come to terms with it lol

Fuck this shit tbh :pctoss

[Prime BEEF]

Pretty sure the ship has sailed as far as trading anyone on this roster... Y'all need to come to terms with it lol
Yes highly doubt LMA is traded. Maybe slight very slim DDR to Detroit possibility but most likely not

[Prime BEEF]

some people were speculating on Twitter and probably here also that I didn't see that maybe DeRozan will be traded for Blake Griffin

Basically the Detroit moves were so stupid that they likely would have been done with Casey's input, and that a reunion with Casey would be something Casey could campaign for

It's stupid, but it kind of makes sense if Detroit wants to shed a year of salary :lol

And Brian Wright supposedly said they weren't done ... :stirpot:
Doubt it happens but Murray and DDR to Detroit for Griffin and Bey makes a lot sense. Especially with DDR’s ties to the coach. Would make the draft selections make more sense too.

[objective]

Ugh just watched 5 minutes of Griffin's 19/20 'highlights' and checked his stats

Spurs would need about an OKC level haul of picks to do it

Griffin looks so sad, so slow, so groundbound, it's just pathetic to watch when he is able to get on the court

DDR looks like 10 times the player. Griffin even shot 3s worse than DDR.

[PhantomDashCam]

Ugh just watched 5 minutes of Griffin's 19/20 'highlights' and checked his stats

Spurs would need about an OKC level haul of picks to do it

Griffin looks so sad, so slow, so groundbound, it's just pathetic to watch when he is able to get on the court

DDR looks like 10 times the player. Griffin even shot 3s worse than DDR.

But if you sub Aldridge for DDR the trade becomes much more palatable. Spurs get a big that can, when healthy, play with Jakob.
‘I find it weird that on the Piston website and socials, no mention of the Isaiah Stewart acquisition and yet they keep grabbing bigs. Hmmm... :stirpot:

Edit: Also heard someone say, think it was K O’C that he saw Blake working out and he looks like prime Griffin.

[kobyz]

Murray, Mills and Gay for John Wall, lets gamble!

[Excessive Egotist]

The Spurs front office will likely have some opportunity to trade one of their vets into unused space. I'm not sure they'll get good offers, other than "let us take your dudes". The Spurs will have to balance these offers vs. what they think they could get at deadline vs. just letting everyone expire at the end of the year.

[ace3g]

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Free agent Denzel Valentine has signed a one-year, $4.7M (qualifying offer) deal with the Bulls, sources tell @TheAthleticNBA (https://twitter.com/TheAthleticNBA/) @Stadium (https://twitter.com/Stadium/).
7:11am · 21 Nov 2020 (https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1330136874237747200) · TweetDeck (https://help.twitter.com/en/using-twitter/how-to-tweet#source-labels)

[Dverde]

So far it appears San Antonio has signed two large white guys who were here last year. Spurs were definitely up to something :lol

[FutureMan]

Maybe a potential Griffin trade includes either Hayes or Rose and that’s why they didn’t pick Haliburton in the draft? Idk man. It definitely feels like DeRozan is the odd man out or will be forced to play small ball 4 a lot.

[Dex]

So far it appears San Antonio has signed two large white guys who were here last year. Spurs were definitely up to something :lol

We'll have to see the details on Eubanks, but if you get can two rotation bigs for ~$11M, then that's a good deal.

Just a reminder that Steven Adams is set to make :wow $27.5M :wow this year. Yes, Adams is the superior player...but not by that much.

[ace3g]

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Free agent F Moe Harkless has agreed to a one-year, $3.6M deal with the Miami Heat, sources tell ESPN.
9:22am · 21 Nov 2020 (https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1330169612886044672) · Twitter Web App (https://help.twitter.com/en/using-twitter/how-to-tweet#source-labels)

[ace3g]

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As part of four-team Steven Adams trade, Thunder also receive George Hill, Darius Miller, 2023 Denver protected first-round pick and second-round picks in 2023 (via Charlotte) and 2024 (via Washington), sources tell ESPN.
8:57am · 21 Nov 2020 (https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1330163360403484681) · Twitter for iPhone

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As part of the trade, guard Eric Bledsoe is staying with the Pelicans, sources tell ESPN.



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[ace3g]

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Real Madrid guard Facundo Campazzo has agreed to a two-year deal with the Denver Nuggets, his agent Alex Saratsis tells ESPN.
5:21pm · 20 Nov 2020 (https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1329927890222280706) · Twitter Web App

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Free agent Michael Carter-Williams has agreed to a deal to return to the Orlando Magic, sources tell @TheAthleticNBA (https://twitter.com/TheAthleticNBA/) @Stadium (https://twitter.com/Stadium/).
7:54am · 21 Nov 2020 (https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1330147561613774850) · TweetDeck (https://help.twitter.com/en/using-twitter/how-to-tweet#source-labels)


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[ace3g]

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Free agent guard Kris Dunn has agreed to a two-year, $10M deal with the Atlanta Hawks, sources tell ESPN. Player option on the second year.
10:15am · 21 Nov 2020 (https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1330183029353025540) · Twitter Web App (https://help.twitter.com/en/using-twitter/how-to-tweet#source-labels)

[CGD]

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Free agent guard Kris Dunn has agreed to a two-year, $10M deal with the Atlanta Hawks, sources tell ESPN. Player option on the second year.
10:15am · 21 Nov 2020 (https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1330183029353025540) · Twitter Web App (https://help.twitter.com/en/using-twitter/how-to-tweet#source-labels)

WOJ saying Dunn could fit in their room exception, which leaves them with over 27M in capspace.

I know a player that can fit in that capspace :-)

[mo7888]

Portis to Milwaukee

David Aldridge

[mo7888]

Restricted free agent De’Anthony Melton has agreed to four-year, $35M deal with the Memphis Grizzlies, sources tell @TheAthleticNBA @Stadium.

Shams

[mo7888]

Free agent guard DJ Augustin has agreed to a three-year, $21M deal with Milwaukee, sources tell @TheAthleticNBA @Stadium.

Shams

[Kurik]

Restricted free agent De’Anthony Melton has agreed to four-year, $35M deal with the Memphis Grizzlies, sources tell @TheAthleticNBA @Stadium.

Shams

To be honest I had to look this guy up. Stats aren’t everything but this has to be an overpay.

[Atl Spur]

And our front office is f’ing up??????? Boy oh boy��������

[BackHome]

So far it appears San Antonio has signed two large white guys who were here last year. Spurs were definitely up to something :lol

Pop and his White privilege...smh

[Robz4000]

:lol Clippers have lost all their depth, they're fucked

[spurspl]

just noticed that ddr had no photos with spurs on instagram. Did he delete it or he didnt have anyone for a while?

[BWS-1994]

just noticed that ddr had no photos with spurs on instagram. Did he delete it or he didnt have anyone for a while?

I thought someone said he deletes stuff every year? Or was that Giannis?

[BackHome]

The Spurs front office will likely have some opportunity to trade one of their vets into unused space. I'm not sure they'll get good offers, other than "let us take your dudes". The Spurs will have to balance these offers vs. what they think they could get at deadline vs. just letting everyone expire at the end of the year.

Yeah at this point in the game I would rather let both walk and hope we tank and get a top 5 pick. Other then being offered a first round pick and taking on a one year contract just ride it out

[TimDunkem]

Yeah at this point in the game I would rather let both walk and hope we tank and get a top 5 pick. Other then being offered a first round pick and taking on a one year contract just ride it out

It's going to be a long, long rebuild.

[BackHome]

I thought someone said he deletes stuff every year? Or was that Giannis?

Yeah I think he does that every year after season ends

[baseline bum]

:lol Clippers have lost all their depth, they're fucked

And they lost their second best player to the Lakers. :lol

[Robz4000]

And they lost their second best player to the Lakers. :lol

:lol which speaks volumes because Harrell is shit

[baseline bum]

:lol which speaks volumes because Harrell is shit

Would still be the most promising player on our roster though :lol :depressed

[Robz4000]

Would still be the most promising player on our roster though :lol :depressed

:lmao no. Bruh, Harrell is basically DePression without the urge to cry in a Jack in the Box parking lot. He'll put up stats but can't play meaningful minutes/games because of his porous defense and inability to shoot.

[TimDunkem]

:lmao no. Bruh, Harrell is basically DePression without the urge to cry in a Jack in the Box parking lot. He'll put up stats but can't play meaningful minutes/games because of his porous defense and inability to shoot.
So....he's better than DDR?

[Robz4000]

So....he's better than DDR?

I'd take him over DePression for his salary tbh, but if I were a contending team I wouldn't want him to be anything other than an energizer bunny-like player ala Mills.

[baseline bum]

I'd take him over DePression for his salary tbh, but if I were a contending team I wouldn't want him to be anything other than an energizer bunny-like player ala Mills.

Whereas you wouldn't want DePression period.

[Excessive Egotist]

Trade options are simultaneously drying up and crystallizing. The Knicks are striking out everywhere. You wonder if some Wall or Westbrook plus DeRozan combination will appeal to them.

The Magic, Hawks, Kings, Suns, 76ers, and Timberwolves might all want to add more win-now talent too.

But the Spurs basically being done seems like the most likely scenario at this point. I'm glad their version of overspending did not look similar to Charlotte's.

[Mr. Body]

Trade options are simultaneously drying up and crystallizing. The Knicks are striking out everywhere. You wonder if some Wall or Westbrook plus DeRozan combination will appeal to them.

The Magic, Hawks, Kings, Suns, 76ers, and Timberwolves might all want to add more win-now talent too.

But the Spurs basically being done seems like the most likely scenario at this point. I'm glad their version of overspending did not look similar to Charlotte's.

One of NYK's problems is that everyone saw them fuck the Spurs over last year. They simultaneously don't have anything teams want and they are untrustworthy.

[Excessive Egotist]

I would take New York's 2021 first and nothing else for DeRozan. Or Charlotte's '21 second (which NYK owns) and Dallas' '23 first (which NYK own).

[Dejounte]

CH3c9tNFufX

MVP haha

[BWS-1994]

CH3c9tNFufX

MVP haha

Why he got two balls down? :lol

[Dex]

1330216568450650113

WTF...$30M a year for a busted Hayward?

[KobesAchilles]

I’m all aboard the Westbrook for DDR and Gay train.

[TDMVPDPOY]

1330216568450650113

WTF...$30M a year for a busted Hayward?

lol why all of a sudden is DK trying to field a playoff roster team...makes no fkn sense, shouldve just continue stay under the salary cap and collect tax revenue

[Joseph Kony]

I’m all aboard the Westbrook for DDR and Gay train.
:vomit:

[gambit1990]

I’m all aboard the Westbrook for DDR and Gay train.
LET’S GOOO

[gambit1990]

torrey craig is available now.

[Dex]

I’m all aboard the Westbrook for DDR and Gay train.

No.

[timtonymanu]

1330216568450650113

WTF...$30M a year for a busted Hayward?

:lol MJ
:lol dad killer
:lol can’t run a team for shit
:lol LeBron shitting all over MJ’s overrated career when all is said and done

[Robz4000]

I’m all aboard the Westbrook for DDR and Gay train.


:vomit:

[TDMVPDPOY]

how about knicks randle? spurs do need a bulldog down low who can score

[Prime BEEF]

how about knicks randle? spurs do need a bulldog down low who can score
Since we’re all just dreaming now...

- DDR to NY for Randle straight up
- Murray, Mills, Gay to Houston for Westbrook and draft picks

[TheGoatishere]

:lol MJ
:lol dad killer
:lol can’t run a team for shit
:lol LeBron shitting all over MJ’s overrated career when all is said and done

Lebron 17 years in and still chasing:lmao

[ace3g]

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Denver has pulled the qualifying offer on forward Torrey Craig, which allows him to become an unrestricted free agent, source tells ESPN. The Nuggets have valued Craig, but ran out of roster spots for him.
4:46pm · 21 Nov 2020 (https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1330281434033123330) · Twitter Web App (https://help.twitter.com/en/using-twitter/how-to-tweet#source-labels)

[ace3g]

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1264902234703265794/lC3YnIYF_normal.jpg
Adrian Wojnarowski @wojespn
(https://twitter.com/wojespn) 1h (https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1330274911068315649)
Elfrid Payton has agreed to one-year, $5M deal with Knicks, agents Aaron Mintz and Ty Sullivan of @CAA_Basketball (https://twitter.com/CAA_Basketball/) tell ESPN.

[objective]

If Sacramento was willing to lose Bogdan for DiVencenzo and expirings, they'd probably do it for Lonnie and expirings like Gay or Mills

If the Kings haven't renounced Giles, they could probably work Giles into a S&T in the deal coming back for pretty cheap

I like Lonnie and Bogdan doesn't quite fit ... but it could be out there for the Spurs

[timtonymanu]

Lebron 17 years in and still chasing:lmao

And still winning championships. Spent more than half of his career making the finals. But let’s keep overrating Dad Killer.

[PhantomDashCam]

Tristan T off to the Celts.

[timtonymanu]

Thought he would sign with the Lakers

[Atl Spur]

And still winning championships. Spent more than half of his career making the finals. But let’s keep overrating Dad Killer.

Please go to bed.....

[timtonymanu]

Please go to bed.....

Too early where I’m at bruh. Just ignore my posts

[Atl Spur]

Too early where I’m at bruh. Just ignore my posts

We good����

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1330366922169454593?s=19

Ahh fuck the Clippers

[Kurik]

https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1330366922169454593?s=19

Ahh fuck the Clippers

He’s almost 40, it’s ok.

[mo7888]

https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1330366922169454593?s=19

Ahh fuck the Clippers

I'm surprised they had enough space to outbid the other teams... unless it is a S&T... on the other hand Toronto needs to acquire a big now.... hello LMA...

[mo7888]

2 years 19M... 2nd year PO

Woj

[Prime BEEF]

https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1330366922169454593?s=19

Ahh fuck the Clippers
Dang. Good pickup by the clippers

[Kurik]

I'm surprised they had enough space to outbid the other teams... unless it is a S&T... on the other hand Toronto needs to acquire a big now.... hello LMA...

Would be ironic that we send a player to Toronto and it isn't DDR. I'm all for it.

[R. DeMurre]

Ibaka to Clippers-- good signing for them.

[TimDunkem]

2 years 19M... 2nd year PO

Woj
Not bad.

[PhantomDashCam]

https://twitter.com/BobbyMarks42/status/1330384361515077634?s=20

[tapiefan]

Ibaka to Clippers-- good signing for them.

Easier to attract vet player with cheap deal when you are a contender. Spurs used to do it with Lee, West and Mike Miller.

[ace3g]

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1197929409044504576/nKXnm0aN_normal.jpg (https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania) Shams Charania (https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania) (https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania) ShamsCharania (https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania)





Free agent Kent Bazemore has agreed to a one-year deal with the Golden State Warriors, agent Austin Walton tells @TheAthleticNBA (https://twitter.com/TheAthleticNBA/) @Stadium (https://twitter.com/Stadium/).
11:42am · 22 Nov 2020 (https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1330567453554974723) · TweetDeck (https://help.twitter.com/en/using-twitter/how-to-tweet#source-labels)

[ace3g]

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Free agent Torrey Craig has reached agreement on a deal with the Milwaukee Bucks, his agents Dave Spahn and Austin Brown of @CAA_Basketball (https://twitter.com/CAA_Basketball/) tell ESPN.
11:16am · 22 Nov 2020 (https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1330560740302999552) · Twitter Web App

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Adrian Wojnarowski @wojespn
(https://twitter.com/wojespn) 17m (https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1330565007667572737)
An important fit for the Bucks, especially because of the way Craig can guard all over the floor. With Denver, Michael Malone used Craig to defend many of the elite wings in the Western Conference.


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[ace3g]

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Free agent Harry Giles has agreed to a one-year deal with the Portland Trail Blazers, source tells ESPN.
10:48am · 22 Nov 2020 (https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1330553635214929922) · Twitter Web App (https://help.twitter.com/en/using-twitter/how-to-tweet#source-labels)

[MoSpur02]

Bojdanovic signs offer sheet from the Hawks for 4 years at $72 million. Not bad.

[ace3g]

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Free agent C Damian Jones has agreed to a two-year deal with the Phoenix Suns, sources tell ESPN.
12:21pm · 22 Nov 2020 (https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1330577043055063045) · Twitter Web App (https://help.twitter.com/en/using-twitter/how-to-tweet#source-labels)

[CGD]

Bojdanovic signs offer sheet from the Hawks for 4 years at $72 million. Not bad.

Well there goes the landing spot for DDR.

[PhantomDashCam]

First offer sheet of FA? Guess it’s unlikely Sac. matches unless they arrange a trade for Buddy.

[DPG21920]

Good gamble by POR on Giles. No risk.

[DPG21920]

So SAs moves were drafting at the spot they already possessed.

The only options Pop has to choose from that didn’t already exist last season are Vassell & Tre :lol.

They saw this squad last year and thought: let’s not take improving it seriously and make it more expensive. I can see that logic.

[TimDunkem]

So SAs moves were drafting at the spot they already possessed.

The only options Pop has to choose from that didn’t already exist last season are Vassell & Tre :lol.

They saw this squad last year and thought: let’s not take improving it seriously and make it more expensive. I can see that logic.

I'll stop watching completely if Vassell is glued to the bench for the first half of the season.

[duncan2150]

So SAs moves were drafting at the spot they already possessed.

The only options Pop has to choose from that didn’t already exist last season are Vassell & Tre :lol.

They saw this squad last year and thought: let’s not take improving it seriously and make it more expensive. I can see that logic.

The real move imo and i'm happy with that is let forbes and beli go , the youth will play more and just for that it's a good offseason for me. Plus the Spurs will have a lot of cap next year.

Like you or others i wanted a reboot with trading derozan or LA but there is still time.

[DPG21920]

The real move imo and i'm happy with that is let forbes and beli go , the youth will play more and just for that it's a good offseason for me. Plus the Spurs will have a lot of cap next year.

Like you or others i wanted a reboot with trading derozan or LA but there is still time.

I wanted more of a reboot for sure. But if they couldn’t trade I wanted max space as possible and didn’t even get that. I also wanted them to maybe trade for win now guys if that was their plan and didn’t get that either.

They did...nothing. But at least they didn’t make a massive mistake with Bryn and Beli. That’s a good thing.

For a team not wanting to embrace a rebuild really I don’t classify just drafting as making moves. They did nothing really.

No matter how we slice it, the only new players pop has to choose from to try and help win more is Vassell and Tre. That’s it.

[duncan2150]

I don't disagree but like you said at least they did''n't make a mistake. If the young core plays a lot i think we'll have a fun year. We'll see.

[bdictjames]

Is there any way the Spurs can sign Bogdan Bogdanovic through a sign-and-trade? Even if it means letting Derozan go? Derozan is back to Cali, where he likes. I think Bogdan can provide great shooting and create for our players, he could even mentor Devin Vassell.

[DPG21920]

I don't disagree but like you said at least they did''n't make a mistake. If the young core plays a lot i think we'll have a fun year. We'll see.

Agree. All my bemoaning was bigger picture. They will be fun IF Mills is buried

[Chinook]

I wanted more of a reboot for sure. But if they couldn’t trade I wanted max space as possible and didn’t even get that. I also wanted them to maybe trade for win now guys if that was their plan and didn’t get that either.

They did...nothing. But at least they didn’t make a massive mistake with Bryn and Beli. That’s a good thing.

For a team not wanting to embrace a rebuild really I don’t classify just drafting as making moves. They did nothing really.

No matter how we slice it, the only new players pop has to choose from to try and help win more is Vassell and Tre. That’s it.

"Max space possible" was always going to be "max space while keeping the younger players. I don't remember you wanting to salary-dump Murray to open up more space.

The question has to be how much cap space do they need to maximize their utility. The marginal increase in cap space that comes from Poeltl signing a smaller deal isn't going to make a difference, and if the goal is to parlay that cap space into pieces that compliment the Spurs' young players, then it's pretty obvious that Poeltl is a good use of that money. You need a good big to help develop the guards, and having one around White's age who already has chemistry with him seems like a good bet. If you're just worried about space to trade for bad contracts and incentive, the $3 or $4 Million at most that the Spurs won't have because Poeltl played hardball usually amounts to a second-round pick on the market, maybe even just cash and a fake pick. It's not worth it. You basically have to say that Poeltl couldn't've signed a deal that would make him worth keeping, because the marginal opportunity cost just isn't there. S&Ting him and getting something for him and still having cap space is defensible. Letting him walk because you want $8 Million more in space really isn't.

And to points like timvp has made about this being a unique window for space before the team has to re-sign young players: I don't think the Spurs should plan on re-signing any but their best young players. I know that seems weird after the thing with Poeltl, but if you're going to rebuild like the Spurs have been, you need to be willing to dump young guys who aren't part of the core and turn them into more chances. That means maybe picking one of White or Murray and certainly no more than two of White, Murray and Walker. Don't tie $50-60 Million on non-star guards. Cap space will atrophy regardless just because of raises within contracts. But nothing is stopping SA from going into 2023 with a max slot as well if they can avoid locking up a mediocre core like SAC has.

[DPG21920]

I didn’t want guys dumped. I only wanted max space as possible with simply not bringing guys back. Been pretty clear on it. Especially with regards to Jakob and context there.

[Chinook]

I didn’t want guys dumped. I only wanted max space as possible with simply not bringing guys back. Been pretty clear on it. Especially with regards to Jakob and context there.

That's not clear though. What does it mean to "bring guys back". Does that mean not bringing White back? I doubt it. The term has to mean something. It has to come with a plan, not just doing something to do something. What's the practical difference between $52 Million and $55 Million and $60 Million? What does SA get with the biggest number that they wouldn't get with the smallest? The opposite is obvious. They wouldn't have a starting center that has chemistry with the young guards. Is that worth a second-round pick? Is it even worth two or three? I don't think it's even close.

[DPG21920]

That's not clear though. What does it mean to "bring guys back". Does that mean not bringing White back? I doubt it. The term has to mean something. It has to come with a plan, not just doing something to do something. What's the practical difference between $52 Million and $55 Million and $60 Million? What does SA get with the biggest number that they wouldn't get with the smallest? The opposite is obvious. They wouldn't have a starting center that has chemistry with the young guards. Is that worth a second-round pick? Is it even worth two or three? I don't think it's even close.

Dude lol I clearly explained this. Bring guys back was referring to free agents: Bryn, Beli and Jakob. I said my scenario included White extension.

That’s how I framed every thing I’ve been saying for a long while now

[Atl Spur]

I'll stop watching completely if Vassell is glued to the bench for the first half of the season.

I tried to extend you an olive branch yesterday but you a clown and didn’t take it...... now let’s get to the business of me exposing you little boy. Check this out goofy, keep your mouth shut and maybe everyone on this board won’t be able to truly quantify your stupidity. Thanks again..... ( signed your Idol )

[DPG21920]

The point is also that yes, I value dollar for dollar cap space to Jakob in the least part because you can always find a non offensive Center if you need one for that money. No matter what imo there was zero reason to sign him and eat any space regardless of how trivial that space may be.

[TimDunkem]

I tried to extend you an olive branch yesterday but you a clown and didn’t take it...... no let’s get to the business of me exposing you little boy. Check this out goofy, keep your mouth shut and maybe everyone on this board won’t be able to truly quantify your stupidity. Thanks again..... ( signed your Idol )
How can you breathe wearing Pop's diaper like this? And I stuck up for you when Nathan was spouting his racist BS. SMH

Leave it to ATL Spur to ignore the fact that I like the Vassell pick and hope he plays because he's too busy eating Pop's SHIT.

[Chinook]

Dude lol I clearly explained this. Bring guys back was referring to free agents: Bryn, Beli and Jakob. I said my scenario included White extension.

That’s how I framed every thing I’ve been saying for a long while now

Maybe I misremember it. Did you say you wanted Poeltl gone under any circumstance?

EDIT: I see you're saying that now and am fine believing you said that then.

[DPG21920]

Maybe I misremember it. Did you say you wanted Poeltl gone under any circumstance?

I said 8m or less was my limit but my preference was to let him go. And the context of 8M was if lma and ddr were moved for capital that the 8m Jakob space might have netted more or less

[Atl Spur]

How can you breathe wearing Pop's diaper like this? And I stuck up for you when Nathan was spouting his racist BS. SMH

Leave it to ATL Spur to ignore the fact that I like the Vassell pick and hope he plays because he's too busy eating Pop's SHIT.

Nathan......take up for ME???? Lol. Hey man thanks for doing the right thing(denouncing racism)��������. I see dead people ...... this dudes a SUCKA!!! Find a mentor!

[TimDunkem]

Nathan......take up for ME???? Lol. Hey man thanks for doing the right thing(denouncing racism)��������. I see dead people ...... this dudes a SUCKA!!! Find a mentor!
Atl Spur the only guy to eat shit sandwiches with sides of diarrhea soup, smile, and ask for seconds.

[Chinook]

I said 8m or less was my limit but my preference was to let him go. And the context of 8M was if lma and ddr were moved for capital that the 8m Jakob space might have netted more or less

That wouldn't've netted more cap space though. And why not trade Murray? He's more overpaid than Poeltl is. At least Jakob can point to a lot of centers who are getting comparable or better deals this off-season.

[DPG21920]

Maybe I misremember it. Did you say you wanted Poeltl gone under any circumstance?

EDIT: I see you're saying that now and am fine believing you said that then.

I can’t search on here for some reason but I’ usually post on Twitter much of what I post here:

Before Jakob signed:

https://twitter.com/DPG21920/status/1328571650288332801?s=20

https://twitter.com/DPG21920/status/1329969931270692865?s=20

https://twitter.com/DPG21920/status/1329866885047980032?s=20

https://twitter.com/DPG21920/status/1329869324614504448?s=20

https://twitter.com/DPG21920/status/1328572758129774595?s=20

My max was 8m but that as I explained was just my number to not absolutely loose my sh*t lol. Def no where close to “extraordinary value”

[DPG21920]

That wouldn't've netted more cap space though. And why not trade Murray? He's more overpaid than Poeltl is. At least Jakob can point to a lot of centers who are getting comparable or better deals this off-season.

I was fine with punting a little space if they already secured extra picks. Made it more palatable to be a little more competitive now with Jakob vs without him.

[SAGirl]

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Free agent Montrezl Harrell has agreed to a two-year deal with the Los Angeles Lakers, agent Rich Paul of @KlutchSports (https://twitter.com/KlutchSports/) tells ESPN.
8:44pm · 20 Nov 2020 (https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1329978877989580801) · Twitter Web App (https://help.twitter.com/en/using-twitter/how-to-tweet#source-labels)

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Free agent Jerami Grant has agreed to a three-year, $60 million deal with the Detroit Pistons, sources tell @TheAthleticNBA (https://twitter.com/TheAthleticNBA/) @Stadium (https://twitter.com/Stadium/). Deal negotiated by agent Mike Kneisley.
8:59pm · 20 Nov 2020 (https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1329982846291894273) · TweetDeck (https://help.twitter.com/en/using-twitter/how-to-tweet#source-labels)



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Adrian Wojnarowski @wojespn
(https://twitter.com/wojespn) 2m (https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1329983070389362692)
Free agent guard Joe Harris has agreed to a four-year, $75M deal to return to the Brooklyn Nets, his agent Mark Bartelstein @PrioritySports (https://twitter.com/PrioritySports/) tells ESPN.


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Adrian Wojnarowski @wojespn
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Free agent forward Davis Bertans has agreed to a 5-year, $80M deal to return to the Washington Wizards, his agent @ArtursKalnitis (https://twitter.com/ArtursKalnitis/) tells ESPN. Deal includes an ETO after fourth year. One of biggest deals ever for a European-based agent in NBA.

wow Davis Bertans 5 yr $80 million. Just wow. Congratulations to him. Getting traded away from the Spurs got him paid and played regularly... He never would have gotten that in the Spurs 4sure...

[GAustex]

Poop just could not figure out how to use Davis.
Which is at 3 or even 2, imo

[timvp]

And to points like timvp has made about this being a unique window for space before the team has to re-sign young players: I don't think the Spurs should plan on re-signing any but their best young players. I know that seems weird after the thing with Poeltl, but if you're going to rebuild like the Spurs have been, you need to be willing to dump young guys who aren't part of the core and turn them into more chances.I think you realized it while you were typing the paragraph but that's the exact argument why bringing back Poeltl needed to be done with care. He's a good player but he's also much more replaceable than someone like, for example, Derrick White. If you need a center, a really good one like Serge Ibaka or Marc Gasol or whoever is always an MLE contract away from obtaining these days. It's now a position that you can pretty easily fill when the need arises.

Poeltl's contract really isn't worth harping on because by my estimation the Spurs overpaid him by less than 1% of the cap (or, if you will, the same amount of dead money on the books for DeMarre Carroll in 2021-22) but I worry that the Spurs aren't as disciplined as they used to be about the cap. Maybe they are but they just see Poeltl as being less replaceable than I view him. I guess we'll see soon enough.

[Mr. Body]

I wanted more of a reboot for sure.

Why? How? Did you want to trade all the young players away? That would be foolish. Otherwise there's nothing to do but pare away vets and clearly they haven't seen options for DDR or LMA yet.

The future of the team is in the 5-7 young guards and wings and further draft picks. That's it. That's what rebuilding is about. You're foolish if you think they're going to get Giannis or miraculously trade two expiring vets for a game-changer. Instead you should admire the fact that we aren't simply hoping on Derrick White this year, as we were at the beginning of last season, but rather excited that we have Keldon and Lonnie and other players who are looking like they are ready to shine.

[Mr. Body]

I think you realized it while you were typing the paragraph but that's the exact argument why bringing back Poeltl needed to be done with care. He's a good player but he's also much more replaceable than someone like, for example, Derrick White. If you need a center, a really good one like Serge Ibaka or Marc Gasol or whoever is always an MLE contract away from obtaining these days. It's now a position that you can pretty easily fill when the need arises.


You really loved the late years of the Pau Gasol experiment, didn't you?

[TD 21]

I think you realized it while you were typing the paragraph but that's the exact argument why bringing back Poeltl needed to be done with care. He's a good player but he's also much more replaceable than someone like, for example, Derrick White. If you need a center, a really good one like Serge Ibaka or Marc Gasol or whoever is always an MLE contract away from obtaining these days. It's now a position that you can pretty easily fill when the need arises.

Poeltl's contract really isn't worth harping on because by my estimation the Spurs overpaid him by less than 1% of the cap (or, if you will, the same amount of dead money on the books for DeMarre Carroll in 2021-22) but I worry that the Spurs aren't as disciplined as they used to be about the cap. Maybe they are but they just see Poeltl as being less replaceable than I view him. I guess we'll see soon enough.

Ibaka was available for the MLE because it's L.A., they're a contender and he's apparently one of the few who can stomach Scumbag's antics. Meanwhile, despite some catch all metrics still painting him as an impact defender, Gasol is on the verge of the cliff (if he hasn't already gone off it).

Who cares about the cap? They've still got plenty of '21 space, we know they won't use it as a dumping ground for dead money to extract pick(s) and the only way markets like this can even attract B listers is by making absurd offers.

[Chinook]

I think you realized it while you were typing the paragraph but that's the exact argument why bringing back Poeltl needed to be done with care. He's a good player but he's also much more replaceable than someone like, for example, Derrick White. If you need a center, a really good one like Serge Ibaka or Marc Gasol or whoever is always an MLE contract away from obtaining these days. It's now a position that you can pretty easily fill when the need arises.

I mean, Poeltl is being paid less than the MLE, so I don't consider that a good alternative. I also don't believe he's irreplaceable. I do believe, though, that since you are going to probably use that money on a center anyway, you may as well keep the one you have rather than use in on like Plumlee. I'd've felt completely differently had the Spurs drafted Jalen Smith instead of Vassell or even if they'd've found a way to pick Oturu and still re-upped Eubanks.

With all of the guards on the team, there's no expectation that you're going to spend eight figures for a bench player. They shouldn't be paying Murray $16 Million if they're paying White $20 Million and are also looking to pay Walker or Johnson coming up. It's not a sustainable strategy to do that, whereas Poeltl will probably be the starting center for the final two seasons and then will be gone by the time Johnson's new contract would kick in.


Spurs aren't as disciplined as they used to be about the cap. Maybe they are but they just see Poeltl as being less replaceable than I view him. I guess we'll see soon enough.

I don't think SA has ever been that disciplined. They were just way better at holding onto depth for cheap contracts and had stars who constantly took less to stay. They've traded multiple assets over the years to get rid of bad money, and before we saw this string of dead money on the books, they were doing it with guys like McDyess. As I've mentioned before, they gave Splitter $36M/4 against a $59-Million cap. Sure centers aren't as valuable, but adjusting for inflation means the team reflects that and more. I also don't think Poeltl will be in the top-15 highest-paid centers this upcoming season, maybe not even to 20. I'm not going to start saying I love the deal or even that I was okay with it. But I do understand it, and I think it makes more sense to sign Poeltl and then look for to develop a replacement for 2023 than it would sign all three of the young guards if they don't all break out.

[K...]

[Poertl is our starting center the season after this unless the spurs sign a starting forward for no less than 80% of his salary. A one year salary would be better for the team of course, but poretle wasn't taking that. None of the Spurs prospects including samamic, lyles, and eubanks, are starting quality. peortle isn't a star, but if the spurs see him as the centerpiece (c) , then i see no problem with the spend.

They are obviously going to retool the team next year. Unless the spurs know the coach that is coming in, the best option is to muddle into the middle and let pop and the vets ride off together.

[Mr. Body]

I mean, Poeltl is being paid less than the MLE, so I don't consider that a good alternative. I also don't believe he's irreplaceable. I do believe, though, that since you are going to probably use that money on a center anyway, you may as well keep the one you have rather than use in on like Plumlee. I'd've felt completely differently had the Spurs drafted Jalen Smith instead of Vassell or even if they'd've found a way to pick Oturu and still re-upped Eubanks.

With all of the guards on the team, there's no expectation that you're going to spend eight figures for a bench player. They shouldn't be paying Murray $16 Million if they're paying White $20 Million and are also looking to pay Walker or Johnson coming up. It's not a sustainable strategy to do that, whereas Poeltl will probably be the starting center for the final two seasons and then will be gone by the time Johnson's new contract would kick in.



I don't think SA has ever been that disciplined. They were just way better at holding onto depth for cheap contracts and had stars who constantly took less to stay. They've traded multiple assets over the years to get rid of bad money, and before we saw this string of dead money on the books, they were doing it with guys like McDyess. As I've mentioned before, they gave Splitter $36M/4 against a $59-Million cap. Sure centers aren't as valuable, but adjusting for inflation means the team reflects that and more. I also don't think Poeltl will be in the top-15 highest-paid centers this upcoming season, maybe not even to 20. I'm not going to start saying I love the deal or even that I was okay with it. But I do understand it, and I think it makes more sense to sign Poeltl and then look for to develop a replacement for 2023 than it would sign all three of the young guards if they don't all break out.

What people don't get is that if you don't sign Poeltl now and reach for an aging player or someone who is uncertain both in the system and in San Antonio, the likelihood of having to replace that slot goes up quite a bit in the next few years. You try to get Marc Gasol? Fine, then you're having to replace him in two years, maybe even one. Maybe he gets hurt in three months. Replacing that slot in two years likely is more expensive then cementing Poeltl now.

Fundmentally, posters don't understand the team they purport to follow, nor their general philosophies. This is why you see calls to trade for Russell Westbrook. It's just dumb; maybe the Spurs do this, but it would mean a vast shift from their inherent basketball ideology.

Getting known quantities established at fair prices helps every other decision down the line. This is a franchise where a bad mistake is hard to fix. They're not Houston or LA where they can throw money around or expect torrents of players to show up and want to play just because.

[lefty]

Per Shams

Baynes to TOR -and Fat Gasol to LAL

[Dejounte]

Lakers are ringing again next year and it makes me puke. There's just no one on their level unless they face some injuries.

[TD 21]

If they are, that means Scumbag isn't, so excellent news.

Gasol is borderline washed, but a good fit nonetheless. He can space the floor around James and Davis and add needed (unless they start Schroder) secondary play making, split minutes and play some with Harrell and defend Jokic/Embiid.

[gambit1990]

despite our complaints, this will be the best spurs team since the kawhi trade.

[gambit1990]

not happy about the frontcourt though.

raptors got baynes for less than the spurs got jakob :rolleyes

[DPG21920]

Who cares about “replacing” poeltl. It’s easy and there’s no reason to pay him especially if you clearly aren’t trying to win

[Atl Spur]

Poodle is 25, mobile, and know the system. He has value especially at 9mil per.

[mo7888]

Who cares about “replacing” poeltl. It’s easy and there’s no reason to pay him especially if you clearly aren’t trying to win

I've tried...I just don't see the logic in your position regarding Poeltl.

[Rummpd]

I've tried...I just don't see the logic in your position regarding Poeltl.

It is not about replacing him it is while Spurs vaunted FO comes up small and does nothing in FA or trade of any significance one has to wonder how many years of abject mediocrity are ahead for Spurs. Poeltl is an ok player who fits a culture striving to be just ok it seems.

[Rummpd]

It is not about replacing him it is while Spurs vaunted FO comes up small and does nothing in FA or trade of any significance one has to wonder how many years of abject mediocrity are ahead for Spurs. Poeltl is an ok player who fits a culture striving to be just ok it seems.. That being said under a formerly all time great coach who was not so very over the hill - he might be better. Just cannot get excited he is not being moved somehow along with others to bring some real change.

[mo7888]

It is not about replacing him it is while Spurs vaunted FO comes up small and does nothing in FA or trade of any significance one has to wonder how many years of abject mediocrity are ahead for Spurs. Poeltl is an ok player who fits a culture striving to be just ok it seems.

That's a different subject though.... I totally get criticism of the FO for being inactive (or not proactive enough). I just don't understand using space on a guy you can get back + an asset if you need it next summer.

[cool cat]

So with the more bigs going to the LA teams does that compel GS to try and get LMA?

[Chinook]

Who cares about “replacing” poeltl. It’s easy and there’s no reason to pay him especially if you clearly aren’t trying to win

They are trying to win. They aren't trying to win a title. If the Spurs were actually not trying to win anything at all, they would've traded their vets just out of respect. There's way more nuance to the goals a team like SA has than you seem willing to allow. They want to develop their young players by giving them a structure of vets trying to win games while the young players come up as role-players. You can certainly disagree with that approach, but the Spurs are pretty clearly operating within that framework, which is why expecting them to sign vet wings didn't make sense and why they felt the need to keep their younger center to be part of the transition.

[Dejounte]

They are trying to win. They aren't trying to win a title. If the Spurs were actually not trying to win anything at all, they would've traded their vets just out of respect. There's way more nuance to the goals a team like SA has than you seem willing to allow. They want to develop their young players by giving them a structure of vets trying to win games while the young players come up as role-players. You can certainly disagree with that approach, but the Spurs are pretty clearly operating within that framework, which is why expecting them to sign vet wings didn't make sense and why they felt the need to keep their younger center to be part of the transition.

This is it. This is the post. Take a photo. Put it on a placard. Tattoo it on your arm, face, ass. This guy gets it. This is how the Spurs are operating.

[Thomas82]

So with the more bigs going to the LA teams does that compel GS to try and get LMA?

I most certainly hope so.

[talkspurs]

i hope so too. I think now G would also have to be doing well in order for them to think about it. If GS is doing well but getting killed inside I think it helps our team for the trade,

[BWS-1994]

I think GSW would rather throw James Wiseman into the fire.

[DPG21920]

They are trying to win. They aren't trying to win a title. If the Spurs were actually not trying to win anything at all, they would've traded their vets just out of respect. There's way more nuance to the goals a team like SA has than you seem willing to allow. They want to develop their young players by giving them a structure of vets trying to win games while the young players come up as role-players. You can certainly disagree with that approach, but the Spurs are pretty clearly operating within that framework, which is why expecting them to sign vet wings didn't make sense and why they felt the need to keep their younger center to be part of the transition.

I think you are simply taking what they did and trying to retrofit a “strategy” that makes sense vs seeing what I’ve been saying and now others like Timvp that what they are doing is directionless and largely non sensical on many levels.

Not disastrous as you’ve mentioned and I agree with for many reasons, but largely devoid of any real strategy or direction.

There is no way you can say with a straight face that this team that has been going backwards is “trying to win” when the only new players that Pop has to choose from compared to last year are pick 11 & 41 in a weaker draft.

That’s not trying to win. Doing nothing to change the teams short term outlook at all other than drafting and relying on internal development (which every single team does) and only adding 2 rookies to a team that just missed the playoffs is trying to win?

Not even a title don’t know what that’s brought up. I’m talking about 8th. They didn’t get it and yet we claim they’re trying to win that level and Pop has only 2 rookies to choose from vs what he had last year when they missed.

This is not even factoring in what other teams have done either which only make the claims of trying to win worse; even by your definition (which is obvious / even when I say win I thought it was assumed everyone knew I didn’t mean titles)

And one of our fundamental disagreements is the trade. They want to stay in neutral, not really truly push for 8th. That’s why they won’t trade vets. They are so paralyzed that they won’t harm themselves at all unless a trade is overwhelming in their favor (it won’t be with the vets they choose to build around). Has nothing to do with respect. It has to do with zero real vision, honesty about this team and being stuck as a FO in limbo

[jeebus]

not happy about the frontcourt though.

raptors got baynes for less than the spurs got jakob :rolleyes
That's fucking depressing. I'd take Baynes any day of the week over Poetl.

[Chinook]

I think you are simply taking what they did and trying to retrofit a “strategy” that makes sense vs seeing what I’ve been saying and now others like Timvp that what they are doing is directionless and largely non sensical on many levels.

No. I think what you and a lot of other fans are doing is letting your emotions cloud your memory. This is what timvp said at the time:

https://www.spurstalk.com/spurs-free-agency-grades-first-day/


What mattered was the fact that it was only a two-year contract. That keeps Gay on the same timeline with LaMarcus Aldridge and DeMar DeRozan, while keeping open the possibility of a massive windfall of cap space in the summer of 2021.

The idea that all of the sudden it's a two-year window with expiring vets is false. It was predictable that it would be this way.


There is no way you can say with a straight face that this team that has been going backwards is “trying to win” when the only new players that Pop has to choose from compared to last year are pick 11 & 41 in a weaker draft.

Yes, I can. I really think you're turtling at this point. They weren't going to sign guys to multi-year deals to win, because they basically don't have a path toward a title. They would just give up cap space for nothing. But the alternative to being a contender is not tearing it down and rebuilding.


That’s not trying to win. Doing nothing to change the teams short term outlook at all other than drafting and relying on internal development (which every single team does) and only adding 2 rookies to a team that just missed the playoffs is trying to win?

Yes. Last year, they were more willing to sign guys to two-year deals, since they had two years left to do it. That's what happened with Morris and Carroll. This year, they don't have the same flexibility to sign guys to one-year deals due to the cap staying flat, and even if they did, they weren't going to sign guys like Beli or Forbes when they have young players. It's really obvious that you're being biased when the same thing you think will make other teams better than the Spurs -- the development of their young players -- is just completely dismissed for SA to fit the argument. Memphis having guys like Ja and JJJ take the next step is inevitable and fine, and boy why can't the Spurs do that. But then the Spurs are hoping for the same thing and it's, "That's dumb, they shoulda signed Torrey Craig instead."

Just no.


And one of our fundamental disagreements is the trade. They want to stay in neutral, not really truly push for 8th. That’s why they won’t trade vets. They are so paralyzed that they won’t harm themselves at all unless a trade is overwhelming in their favor (it won’t be with the vets they choose to build around). Has nothing to do with respect. It has to do with zero real vision, honesty about this team and being stuck as a FO in limbo

Making the playoffs isn't more important than developing their players or even keeping a good amount of cap space open for next summer. "Winning" doesn't mean that they have to hit a certain seed or victory total. It means they are going out there with a mentality of using their best talent and letting their young players come up around the talent instead of moving that talent and having the players try to expand their games into roles they might not be comfortable with. Vassell solidifying himself as a three-and-D player is more helpful to his long-term development than him flailing around with the ball trying to be the lead guy on a team that has no better talent. Same thing with Johnson and Walker. They got way too excited with Murray and tried to short-cut his development by having him focus on off-dribble pull-ups. Murray's impact has degraded to the point where he's a questionable rotation player.

They can't let that happen with Johnson or the others. That seems inconceivable to many Spurs fans. But as promising as he and some of the young guys are, they aren't more talented than the sea of players from perennially bad teams that get huge roles and flame out or at best become extremely flawed and unbalanced minor stars. Constantly churning out those players is how you become a permabad team, and it's why it doesn't make sense to assume some of those teams with "better futures" really will pass the Spurs. A sizeable number of those guys will bust out. Another bit will be okay and get overpaid. The rest will be good and earn their money but then ask out because they don't want to be in that cesspool anymore.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Agree with Chinook. The best way to develop young players is by 1. being competitive, instead of having 15-win seasons like Philly did and 2. by playing them in the correct roles for their development level. A bigger role could damage a player's development just as badly as a smaller one would.

And the worst position you could get to is paying a number of underdevelopped players more than their worth only because you've drafted them and they haven't been busts. Then you end up with a roster having the likes of Buddy Hield or Otto Porter who don't really impact your winning but take up cap space equal to what legit stars would. This is also why having a million picks is tricky - you have to hit jackpot with one, just one, like Dallas, and you're better off than having a million middling picks. This is another discussion entirely though.

[Rummpd]

That's fucking depressing. I'd take Baynes any day of the week over Poetl.

Raptors playing chess while Spurs playing comic checkers per usual last few years.

[Chinook]

Agree with Chinook. The best way to develop young players is by 1. being competitive, instead of having 15-win seasons like Philly did and 2. by playing them in the correct roles for their development level. A bigger role could damage a player's development just as badly as a smaller one would.

And the worst position you could get to is paying a number of underdevelopped players more than their worth only because you've drafted them and they haven't been busts. Then you end up with a roster having the likes of Buddy Hield or Otto Porter who don't really impact your winning but take up cap space equal to what legit stars would. This is also why having a million picks is tricky - you have to hit jackpot with one, just one, like Dallas, and you're better off than having a million middling picks. This is another discussion entirely though.

We'll probably see that with OKC soon. Ainge was lucky that Brooklyn bottomed out early, so he had the high draft picks to get good (though overrated) players. Most of the rest of the picks he had have been busts. That's actually not the worst thing for them, because it let the Celtics cut those players rather than overpay them. But he's still at the point of pissing away picks every year because his team can't use them. I can't imagine how much worse it would be if he were in that situation but had Fox and Hield instead of Brown and Tatum.

Presti needs to trade up using those picks before they actually convey and still have the luster of the unknown. A team might drop down 12 spots in a draft for "two future firsts", but they won't if those picks are 26 and 30 in the same draft.

[DPG21920]

If what you’re saying is true then I’m even more convinced Poeltl was a mistake. Can’t have it both ways here imo. They weren’t willing to change the team at all because of some insanely strict 2 year plan but are willing to punt 9M in cap space for a back up Center?? That makes absolutely zero sense in the framework of what you’re pitching.

Beyond that, not trading ANY of the vets for future capital makes no sense either. If payoffs aren’t really a goal as you mentioned you can absolutely trade at least one of the vets and still have functioned in the parameters you outlined.

No matter how you slice it with what you’ve outlined it’s non sensical in both angles at best and a signal this front office is bottom tier with regard to doing anything creative/team building at worst.

[Dejounte]

Dpg, you're an old man stuck in your thinking.

9M is near market value for a center of Poetl's caliber.

As Chinook said, this year we are now on a 1 year plan and last year was a 2 year plan. You can't trade the vets for anything unless it's for picks and the only player I see anyone trading picks for are DeMar and Aldridge and even then, that seems VERY unlikely unless we are taking back salary which will fuck up the 1 year plan.

It's not hard to understand.

[Atl Spur]

Dpg, you're an old man stuck in your thinking.

9M is near a market value for a center of Poetl's caliber.

As Chinook said, this year we are now on a 1 year plan and last year was a 2 year plan. You can't trade the vets for anything unless it's for picks and the only player I see anyone trading picks for are DeMar and Aldridge and even then, that seems VERY unlikely unless we are taking back salary which will fuck up the 1 year plan.

It's not hard to understand.
It’s hard to understand if you’re being short sighted; the spurs live by the mantra of pounding the rock. We’ll be a middling to good team doing it the current way vs being hot trash in a fire sale!

[DPG21920]

:lol imagine calling someone like me old man when what I’m suggesting is more creative and modern vs doing nothing and being set in old ways.

Makes absolutely zero sense. I’m obviously in a minority with people like Timvp - that’s fine. We’ve established that at a minimum Chinook and I FULLY understand the others actual positions with little confusion

We simply do not agree that 1) each other’s strategy is correct or right move and 2)what it signals about the confidence in the FO moving forward.


We also agree that no matter who is “right” nothing SA has done is catastrophic and that overall they are in a ok position

[DPG21920]

It’s hard to understand if you’re being short sighted; the spurs live by the mantra of pounding the rock. We’ll be a middling to good team doing it the current way vs being hot trash in a fire sale!

A fire sale? What? LMA and ddr are gone after this season. What are you on about?

[MoSpur02]

Dario Saric is staying with the Phoenix Suns

[John B]

That's fucking depressing. I'd take Baynes any day of the week over Poetl.
We needed that bruiser. Is Tyler Zeller still available? He actually played well in his short stint.

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/bouncepassos/status/1330916059457736707?s=19

Spurs are always ahead of the game.

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/bouncepassos/status/1330896817052135426?s=19

#youthmovement

[rjv]

No. I think what you and a lot of other fans are doing is letting your emotions cloud your memory. This is what timvp said at the time:

https://www.spurstalk.com/spurs-free-agency-grades-first-day/



The idea that all of the sudden it's a two-year window with expiring vets is false. It was predictable that it would be this way.



Yes, I can. I really think you're turtling at this point. They weren't going to sign guys to multi-year deals to win, because they basically don't have a path toward a title. They would just give up cap space for nothing. But the alternative to being a contender is not tearing it down and rebuilding.



Yes. Last year, they were more willing to sign guys to two-year deals, since they had two years left to do it. That's what happened with Morris and Carroll. This year, they don't have the same flexibility to sign guys to one-year deals due to the cap staying flat, and even if they did, they weren't going to sign guys like Beli or Forbes when they have young players. It's really obvious that you're being biased when the same thing you think will make other teams better than the Spurs -- the development of their young players -- is just completely dismissed for SA to fit the argument. Memphis having guys like Ja and JJJ take the next step is inevitable and fine, and boy why can't the Spurs do that. But then the Spurs are hoping for the same thing and it's, "That's dumb, they shoulda signed Torrey Craig instead."

Just no.



Making the playoffs isn't more important than developing their players or even keeping a good amount of cap space open for next summer. "Winning" doesn't mean that they have to hit a certain seed or victory total. It means they are going out there with a mentality of using their best talent and letting their young players come up around the talent instead of moving that talent and having the players try to expand their games into roles they might not be comfortable with. Vassell solidifying himself as a three-and-D player is more helpful to his long-term development than him flailing around with the ball trying to be the lead guy on a team that has no better talent. Same thing with Johnson and Walker. They got way too excited with Murray and tried to short-cut his development by having him focus on off-dribble pull-ups. Murray's impact has degraded to the point where he's a questionable rotation player.

They can't let that happen with Johnson or the others. That seems inconceivable to many Spurs fans. But as promising as he and some of the young guys are, they aren't more talented than the sea of players from perennially bad teams that get huge roles and flame out or at best become extremely flawed and unbalanced minor stars. Constantly churning out those players is how you become a permabad team, and it's why it doesn't make sense to assume some of those teams with "better futures" really will pass the Spurs. A sizeable number of those guys will bust out. Another bit will be okay and get overpaid. The rest will be good and earn their money but then ask out because they don't want to be in that cesspool anymore.

couldn't agree more; too many ST posters take the point of view that this team somehow is positioned to win in the immediate future which just isn't possible. the best route for the spurs to take at this time is what you mention in regards to development and cap space. there are many different ways to define "winning".

[Dejounte]

"We still have a good mix of experienced and young players," said Poeltl. "The younger players can learn from the veterans and I hope we can continue as seamlessly as possible."

https://news4sanantonio.com/amp/sports/content/i-like-the-city-and-my-teammates-jakob-poeltl-reacts-to-new-deal-with-spurs?__twitter_impression=true

What an odd concept from Poetl to say that he values having vets to learn from. Wow! That is so strange.

Another reason to hate the fact that we signed him! He hopes they can continue as seamless as possible! Trade him!

[jeebus]

Raptors playing chess while Spurs playing comic checkers per usual last few years.
Pop(and a few ST members) is probably still pissed that Baynes was better than Jeff Ayres in every way.

[BackHome]

I don’t care what people say the only way we come close to winning another championship will not be through free agency but Will through our draft picks. We won all those Championships from drafting David Robinson and Tim Duncan and right now I am hoping that Keldon, White, Vassell, Walker can be at least in the same realm as Sean, Bowen, Manu, and Tony.

As far as cap room well a lot of that will go into signing our young players hopefully our front office makes the right choice in keeping the right ones and trading and getting something back for the ones we think won’t be good fits. I am still optimistic that we can at least get a mid to late draft pick for one of our players getting traded this season - crossing fingers. I honestly think if we can get another top 10 draft pick and another first in the 17 to 26 range we could find our starting Center and SF.

[RC_Drunkford]

Even in the 2021 free agency class, there aren't any players who will move the needle. Do you want to pay 30 million for Gobert or a 32-year old Paul George? I don't. Spurs need Lonnie to develop into a superstar, he's the only young guy who has the potential to become a real franchise player. The sooner the better. White can be a 3rd option, so can Vassell if everything pans out. Keldon might be able to be a legit 2nd option. The jury is still out on Dejounte. Internal improvement is the only way for this team to get back to contention. Maybe add a Jonathan Isaac or Markannen at PF, but next offseason won't be special either.

[mo7888]

Even in the 2021 free agency class, there aren't any players who will move the needle. Do you want to pay 30 million for Gobert or a 32-year old Paul George? I don't. Spurs need Lonnie to develop into a superstar, he's the only young guy who has the potential to become a real franchise player. The sooner the better. White can be a 3rd option, so can Vassell if everything pans out. Keldon might be able to be a legit 2nd option. The jury is still out on Dejounte. Internal improvement is the only way for this team to get back to contention. Maybe add a Jonathan Isaac or Markannen at PF, but next offseason won't be special either.

I believe Markannen is available...or at least will be..

[Excessive Egotist]

Spurs could keep 15th roster spot open to save money and maintain some trade flexibility. A two for one trade for any of their vets is not improbable between now and deadline.

[pad300]

That's fucking depressing. I'd take Baynes any day of the week over Poetl.
I'd think twice about that.

https://www.boxscoregeeks.com/players/compare?utf8=%E2%9C%93&player_ids%5B%5D=1327&player_ids%5B%5D=3189&season=2019

Baynes takes the points category, but, Poetl is better on Rebounds, Blocks, Assists, Steals, Fouls and Turnovers. Scoring efficiency (by all measures) is strongly in Poetl's favor as well, although Baynes does shoot 3's (8.6 att/40, at 35.1%; Poetl 0 attempts).

[DPG21920]

Spurs could keep 15th roster spot open to save money and maintain some trade flexibility. A two for one trade for any of their vets is not improbable between now and deadline.

Depends. If we all agree they won’t pay tax? Then a 2 for 1 can only happen if the salaries Sa take back are virtually equal or less than what they send out.

So now on top of trades already being difficult, they have to find a team that 1) wants our vets 2) is willing to give up enough value where Sa is ready to pull that trigger and 3) what they’re willing to give up is equal or less than salary we have going to them.

You see how narrow that gets?

[SpurPadre]

If what you’re saying is true then I’m even more convinced Poeltl was a mistake. Can’t have it both ways here imo. They weren’t willing to change the team at all because of some insanely strict 2 year plan but are willing to punt 9M in cap space for a back up Center?? That makes absolutely zero sense in the framework of what you’re pitching.

Beyond that, not trading ANY of the vets for future capital makes no sense either. If payoffs aren’t really a goal as you mentioned you can absolutely trade at least one of the vets and still have functioned in the parameters you outlined.

No matter how you slice it with what you’ve outlined it’s non sensical in both angles at best and a signal this front office is bottom tier with regard to doing anything creative/team building at worst.


Poetl is overpaid and I still think he's playing in the wrong era but that's the market now and he's still young.

Also, PATFO did try to get #2 pick for LMA but the Dubs weren't seriously taking any offers. They've been openly saying that alot the past few days. Sources in the Bay Area do say the Spurs were the only team that remotely made them think about it, though. The point is, PATFO were willing to deal LMA away but without the 2nd pick or any other picks this year, what's the point now? Wouldn't the best thing to do would be for him to showcase himself as a 35 year old still doing work this season and deal him by the deadline if we turn out to be a bad team?

[Excessive Egotist]

Depends. If we all agree they won’t pay tax? Then a 2 for 1 can only happen if the salaries Sa take back are virtually equal or less than what they send out.

So now on top of trades already being difficult, they have to find a team that 1) wants our vets 2) is willing to give up enough value where Sa is ready to pull that trigger and 3) what they’re willing to give up is equal or less than salary we have going to them.

You see how narrow that gets?

It's been narrowing by the day, but the team still has options. I'm not concerned about the tax line because the team can buyout one of their vets at deadline to get under the line, if they find themselves within a couple million of relief. Plus there is the possibility that the Spurs would take back less money in a trade.

I don't think any of this is likely to be super exciting, but I don't think there is reason to be too concerned about the tax line right now.

[DPG21920]

It's been narrowing by the day, but the team still has options. I'm not concerned about the tax line because the team can buyout one of their vets at deadline to get under the line, if they find themselves within a couple million of relief. Plus there is the possibility that the Spurs would take back less money in a trade.

I don't think any of this is likely to be super exciting, but I don't think there is reason to be too concerned about the tax line right now.

True. We don’t know for sure what SA is willing to do. I’m just making my best guess. Trade can absolutely still be done; just appears more difficult every day. But there are a couple teams like Ny&Det with cap space that may actually work well as trade partners.

They have not secured any notable fa with their space and can absorb a lot of salary

[DPG21920]

Poetl is overpaid and I still think he's playing in the wrong era but that's the market now and he's still young.

Also, PATFO did try to get #2 pick for LMA but the Dubs weren't seriously taking any offers. They've been openly saying that alot the past few days. Sources in the Bay Area do say the Spurs were the only team that remotely made them think about it, though. The point is, PATFO were willing to deal LMA away but without the 2nd pick or any other picks this year, what's the point now? Wouldn't the best thing to do would be for him to showcase himself as a 35 year old still doing work this season and deal him by the deadline if we turn out to be a bad team?

The point kind of is regardless of being a “bad” team or not. Let’s say SA is not a terrible team but are within 3-6 games of 8th at deadline?

To me, if you aren’t taking winning at least somewhat seriously you should absolutely be prioritizing your future more. The concern is that LMA value only decreases the longer Sa waits. I don’t see many paths to his value rising.

[Excessive Egotist]

True. We don’t know for sure what SA is willing to do. I’m just making my best guess. Trade can absolutely still be done; just appears more difficult every day. But there are a couple teams like Ny&Det with cap space that may actually work well as trade partners.

They have not secured any notable fa with their space and can absorb a lot of salary

We'll know more by Thanksgiving. If Atlanta misses on Bogdan (doubtful), then there might be a before-the-holiday-desperately-seeking-to-use-space-market that could benefit the Spurs. I wouldn't bet on it, but Atlanta, Houston, Orlando, NY, and Detroit all teams to watch, particularly for DeRozan, imo. Maybe Sacramento.

[Dejounte]

I kinda think if you weren't a regular in the Austin Spurs Thread last year and before the Covid this year.... you really aren't a spurs fan your either a fan of the Benefactor a shit posters who post to shit, or both. Than Venn Diagram set has lots of cross over

Sorry to disappoint you. What are you disagreeing with? We can discuss.

[Atl Spur]

True. We don’t know for sure what SA is willing to do. I’m just making my best guess. Trade can absolutely still be done; just appears more difficult every day. But there are a couple teams like Ny&Det with cap space that may actually work well as trade partners.

They have not secured any notable fa with their space and can absorb a lot of salary

Isn’t he a chris paul the same age? LMA resting & rehabilitating, so he may show better than you think����

[PhantomDashCam]

https://twitter.com/N_Magaro/status/1330991845577547778?s=20

[ace3g]

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1197929409044504576/nKXnm0aN_normal.jpg (https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania) Shams Charania (https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania) (https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania) ShamsCharania (https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania)





Cousins is signing a new deal with the Rockets, sources said.



Shams Charania ShamsCharania

(https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania)

Free agent DeMarcus Cousins and the Houston Rockets are nearing a deal, sources tell @TheAthleticNBA (https://twitter.com/TheAthleticNBA/) @Stadium (https://twitter.com/Stadium/).


4:46pm · 23 Nov 2020 (https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1331006131242754048) · TweetDeck (https://help.twitter.com/en/using-twitter/how-to-tweet#source-labels)

[Joseph Kony]

Cousins to Houston is interesting. I wonder what they plan on doing with Harden considering he said he wants out, and no one wants Westbrook :lol Spurs should offer LMA/DeRozan/White/1st for Harden and Tucker imo. benefits both teams, even though i despise harden

[tbdog]

Cousins to Houston is interesting. I wonder what they plan on doing with Harden considering he said he wants out, and no one wants Westbrook :lol Spurs should offer LMA/DeRozan/White/1st for Harden and Tucker imo. benefits both teams, even though i despise harden

That would be a gutsy call.

[DPG21920]

Vegas has Spurs wins at 31. More or less ST and surprised at total or no?

[Kurik]

Vegas has Spurs wins at 31. More or less ST and surprised at total or no?

If the team stays pat, I think it's pretty realistic maybe plus or minus 5 games.

[Leetonidas]

31 sounds about right. 34 max

[Robz4000]

I say the Sours finish 32-50 tbh, but it should be a much more enjoyable season than last. Hopefully they move the vets by the trade deadline for something.